And this is WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online. 
The time is almost 7 p.m. 
which means, once again, it's time for Off The Hook, coming up. 
So, stay tuned. 
Hello. 
It's 7 o'clock on Wednesday. 
This is WBAI New York and it must be time for Off The Hook. 
And, good evening to everybody. 
The program is Off The Hook. 
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening. 
Joined tonight by Kyle. 
Over here. 
Over there. 
I'm very distorted for some reason. 
I'm not sure why. 
Okay, I'll turn that down. 
Somebody messes with our knobs every week. 
Over in Skype land, do we have Rob T. 
Firefly? 
Good evening. 
Oh, you sound good this week. 
Okay, and Gila? 
Good evening. 
And I believe we have Alex. 
You do indeed. 
Okay. 
Well, welcome back everybody. 
We were not on last week and we're back. 
We're back this week. 
And we have all sorts of interesting things to talk about. 
Something that's been bugging me is the definition of a word. 
And you know how I get when I have issues with definitions. 
But this is a word that's been around for a while. 
You know, people have talked about it. 
It was in all kinds of novels and in science fiction. 
The word metaverse. 
You know, it's a good word. 
I'm looking it up now. 
A set of all universes is the definition. 
A fictional universe with multiple alternate timelines. 
Prime Earth and the DC universe. 
The metaverse was a supernatural dimension derived from the collective unconscious in Persona 5. 
There's all kinds of definitions. 
You can find a million of them. 
But for some reason, this word is being used an awful lot recently to refer to Facebook. 
And the reason this is happening is because Facebook decided to rename their parent company to be meta. 
And we all laughed and pointed when that happened. 
Saying, boy, what a bunch of idiots. 
But you know what? 
They were really smart because now everybody is talking about the metaverse and they mean Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook. 
And I'm getting kind of annoyed by us just giving them this word. 
It's literally the metaverse. 
It encompasses so much. 
And they just come and they take it. 
And pretty soon, they're going to copyright it and make it so that we can't say metaverse and refer to something other than Facebook. 
So, you know, this is my cautionary advisement right now to tread carefully as far as using this word and referring to Facebook. 
I don't know. 
Am I being paranoid, guys? 
I don't know. 
I mean, it seems like there's a lot of prior art which would prevent them from trying to enforce any intellectual ownership of the word, trademarks, copyrights, things like that. 
But at the same time, I wouldn't put it past them because they are a big company. 
And as has been making the news this past week, they are a company in trouble. 
They're seeing their numbers dwindle and they're seeing their value dwindle. 
And they might be desperate and threatened and cornered and inspired to do any number of evil things. 
Well, you know, separately, building on that too, you have to think about the wisdom of changing a name of a massive company to something that is also a generic term and a very historical term. 
You know, this was a strategic decision that they made. 
But what was really fascinating to see is that this happened, I think it was right at the end of October or early November when they changed their name and rebranded themselves. 
When Facebook changed their name and rebranded itself as Meta. 
Within those first few days in watching the DNS or the global domain name system, I saw within two days over 48,000 new domain names that incorporated the term Meta in them. 
And it had Meta for various products, Meta for this company, Meta for this place. 
So I think there is this massive effort, not only by domain speculators, but by others who may hold intellectual property rights and trademarks in particular to incorporate the term Meta with respect to their pre-existing intellectual property. 
And in so doing, that would prevent Facebook from establishing a monopoly over this arguably generic term. 
Separately though, I think this shift of focus and effort towards Meta and the Metaverse definitely signals that Facebook is changing its strategic priorities. 
You know, that's pretty obvious from the name change and the fact that they're pushing things towards the Metaverse. 
But if you look at their earnings statements from the last couple of weeks, I think this is the first time ever that the user base of Facebook did not grow. 
And I find that really, really fascinating, especially in light of the fact that so many people over the Christmas and Hanukkah holidays received Oculus Rift, like myself. 
But tying the Oculus Rift to a Facebook account and requiring the use of a Facebook account is a way to keep people plugged in. 
And it's a new source of data. 
It's like a new source of oil, frankly, because we're talking about data that's going to be generated from this virtual universe. 
We don't have to even call it the Metaverse, but a virtual universe that could involve watching your eye movements. 
It could involve your head movements. 
It could involve your interactions with other people physically as well as digitally. 
And none of this type of data or these data types have been the subject or rather the object of legislation, either at the state, federal or international level. 
So Facebook, in changing its name and marching towards this metaverse or this VR world, is now opening up this brave new world of data that has not been available to them since. 
And it's a completely unregulated universe at this point. 
I mean, I think there are certain state laws that deal with biometrics data, like in Illinois in particular. 
But regulating the metaverse or the VR world, whatever we want to call it, those laws don't exist yet. 
And a company like Facebook or Meta may be the entity that establishes what those precedents are. 
That's truly scary to me. 
Well, there's a whole lot here that scares me. 
Again, the simplicity of just using a common word and taking it for yourself. 
It kind of reminds me of the last president. 
Do you remember him, Trump? 
Trump is a common word in card games, correct? 
And yet he uses that particular word from the card game to his advantage. 
And he will sue other people who use the name or word Trump in other uses. 
So there's a whole lot of hypocrisy and abuse of names when they're taken. 
And I'm just worried about this because it just seems like I'm hearing about the metaverse everywhere now. 
And I never really heard about it as much. 
I mean, I heard about it, knew the word, but it wasn't in everyday conversation like it is now. 
So I think it was a shrewd move on their part. 
And we have to be very, very careful. 
But that's not all we want to talk about tonight. 
There are all sorts of other things going on. 
That crazy demonstration going on up north in Ottawa. 
Actually, it's going on in Ottawa. 
It's going on in Windsor by the famous bridge there that basically is the largest transport hub, I believe, of commercial goods between the countries, between Canada and the United States. 
And this is not being really emphasized very much in the media. 
It's a relatively small group of people that are doing this. 
You might think every single trucker in Canada is part of this movement. 
No, they're not. 
The vast majority of truckers don't like this. 
They're vaccinated. 
They believe in the various mandates to keep people safe that have been implemented in various places in various ways. 
But what's going on up there now is basically grinding everything to a halt. 
And it's interesting, too. 
You know, there are lessons we can learn from this, that it doesn't take very many people to have a dramatic effect. 
It would be nice if people on our side sometimes remembered that and maybe clogged up the machine occasionally when it deserves to be clogged up. 
But in this particular case, it's getting quite a bit of criticism, mostly from people who live around there and don't want to deal with blasting horns 24 hours a day and just the racism and the white nationalism and the Confederate flags and Nazi emblems. 
I don't know how all this suddenly came about, but it's a celebration of fascism, apparently, that is breaking out everywhere. 
Who knew? 
Canada. 
Wow. 
But get this, and this shouldn't surprise anybody. 
The donation site that they were using, first of all, they were using GoFundMe, and I believe GoFundMe said, uh-uh, not an hour watch, and basically refunded all the money. 
But a lot of the money is coming from the United States. 
A lot of the money, in fact, it's coming from politicians in the United States. 
I saw a headline the other day that said the Republican Party is investigating why the truckers in Canada aren't getting their money, which, when you think about it, is the most bizarre headline that you could possibly imagine. 
How is the United States or members of the United States government involved in this uprising? 
And it's not just about vaccines and masks. 
It's about overthrowing the duly elected Canadian government. 
That is one of their conditions, that they dump Trudeau and replace him with an unelected group of people. 
This is really happening up there, and it's, you know, I laugh, but it's really crazy and serious. 
But anyway, they have a new donation site now. 
Actually, it's called GiveSendGo. 
Talk about a name just lying around ready to be used. 
GiveSendGo. 
They're based in Boston, and they became the primary donation service for this so-called Freedom Convoy after GoFundMe froze millions of dollars in donations. 
Millions of dollars in donations. 
Amazing. 
The donation site, this new donation site, GiveSendGo, basically they had a security lapse. 
They've since fixed it, I understand, but they had a security lapse that, ready, exposed passports and driver's licenses of donors. 
So if you donated to these people, all of your private information was exposed. 
I mean, it's almost like you can predict this is going to happen when people like this organize something. 
It almost always does. 
And here it happened yet again. 
I believe, Gila, you discovered this story. 
Go ahead. 
GiveSendGo, I have a lot of feelings about GiveSendGo. 
This is not the first time that this has happened to them. 
GiveSendGo was also raising money for, I'm sorry, it was the platform of people raising money for Kyle Rittenhouse last year. 
Can I just ask you a quick question? 
It's not the first time they've exposed people's passports and licenses. 
How does that happen more than once to the same company? 
How do they make the same mistake twice or more? 
That much I can't tell you. 
I think they're one of the current tech companies who's kind of riding the we're going to do what nobody else will do kind of bandwagon and hoping that that notoriety will carry them through these kind of really horrific security lapses. 
Because, again, it happened last year, and people who donated were losing their jobs behind donating through this site. 
They do refer to themselves as the number one Christian crowdfunding site in the United States. 
Do with that as you will. 
Yeah, that's what I got for the moment. 
Wow, okay. 
I don't know what's Christian about this exactly, but it's definitely stupid. 
I'll say that. 
But, yeah, I understand it was fixed. 
But that doesn't mean it's not going to happen again because it's happened before. 
So, wow, that is something. 
Okay, we have some stories of crypto mischief. 
Ready for the crypto mischief segment of the show? 
Yeah, there's an arrest warrant that's been issued for a University of Waterloo. 
I believe that's in Canada. 
Pretty sure that's in Canada. 
Nineteen-year-old math grad, $15 million crypto computer attack. 
Yeah, he has a master's degree in mathematics from the University of Waterloo. 
And he's apparently gone into hiding after a judge issued a warrant for his arrest. 
Indian Medjadovich is the defendant in a civil case launched after the alleged theft of $15 million in cryptocurrency tokens. 
Yeah, I guess I'd go into hiding, too, if I had $15 million in cryptocurrency tokens. 
Of course, it could be worth $20 tomorrow. 
You don't know. 
Mr. 
Medjadovich used his formidable mathematical prowess to devise and unleash a complex computer attack against Index Finance. 
That's according to Superior Court Justice Fred Myers, who said this at a recent court hearing, essentially induced it to send him $15 million in others cryptocurrency tokens. 
The attack happened back in October, and Medjadovich was named online as the attacker and apparently received threats. 
Index Finance is described as a decentralized financial platform for cryptocurrencies and other digital assets. 
Users allege that Medjadovich misappropriated the tokens, and the case is scheduled to be heard in Toronto. 
Medjadovich, who I'm getting the hang of pronouncing the name, so hopefully I'm pronouncing it right. 
It sounds really good. 
It gets easier the more times you say it. 
Medjadovich. 
It feels right. 
Apparently lived in the Hamilton area before attending the University of Waterloo, known as UW. 
Everything is known as UW. 
University of Washington, University of Wisconsin, University of Waterloo. 
The UW, I guess they call it. 
Medjadovich took part in a virtual court hearing on December 17th. 
He was given four days to put the crypto tokens in the hands of a neutral custodian. 
Well, how literally he took that. 
He could have just gone to the local high school and found the custodian and asked if he had an opinion and given it to him. 
But I don't know. 
That's probably not what happened. 
The judge told him if he failed to do so, he could be ordered to show why he should not be held in contempt of court. 
I don't know what it is, Alex, but when something serious happens in Canada, it never sounds as serious as it does here. 
If you fail to show up, you could be ordered to show why you should not be held in contempt of court. 
In the United States, if you don't show up, we're going to kill you or something like that. 
It's a lot more serious and a lot more direct. 
We're going to maybe threaten you to do something unless you come up with a good reason why not. 
It seems like they've got an additional layer of process there where if you don't show up, you have an opportunity perhaps to explain why you didn't show up. 
If you don't show up in U.S. courts, generally what will happen is the judge will issue a bench warrant for your arrest. 
That will be promulgated to the authorities. 
You get pulled over in your car. 
They run your license. 
They realize there's a warrant out for your arrest, and then you're taken into custody. 
I would imagine that the Canadian authorities or the Canadian judiciary would probably do the same thing, but given the person who did not show up, the opportunity to explain why they didn't show up in the first place. 
A hearing was set for December 21st, and when Medvedevich didn't appear, the judge issued an arrest warrant. 
He has not been found. 
Apparently they listened to you. 
He has not been found. 
The UW grad had lived with his parents, but they said he moved out and took his computers, and they don't know where he is. 
My God, the horror, the fear. 
Medvedevich's last tweets were apparently made in October, a week after the attack. 
Basically, a tweet identified online that's coming from his account said, I am looking for the most elite crypto lawyers, Alex. 
I will need an entire team. 
Alex, you have an entire team, I believe. 
If Indexed, the name of the company, wants to insinuate that I did something wrong and resort to name-calling, LOL. 
Yeah. 
He tweeted that if Indexed Finance wants to steal his tokens, and listen carefully to this, then we must have a duel. 
Please choose, swords or pistols, at noon or at dusk. 
I will win. 
It will not be close. 
He added, I doubt they have it in them for an actual fight to the death. 
You get the feeling that there's two different worlds here. 
There's the world of the serious legal people, and then there's the world of a kid who's having fun. 
Yeah, sure, he has $15 million in crypto tokens, but the whole thing is nonsense and silly in the first place, and to him it's just a big game. 
I know to other people it's not a game, but there's a disconnect here. 
We're not speaking the same language. 
This is obviously a smart person that has a sense of humor, and I just hope that lives aren't destroyed as a result of this. 
I keep thinking of what's happening to Virgil right now in federal prison, and just the insanity with which mischief is dealt with. 
And yeah, you might say it's $15 million. 
Okay, but you know what? 
It really shouldn't be that easy. 
It's insane the amount of currency that is being moved around in the crypto world with the touch of a button, and not very much security. 
You hear about it every day. 
In fact, there's another story I want to get to that's really kind of fascinating. 
But this, you can't read the story and not laugh. 
It's something that I think is quite interesting. 
Now, in the wild west of cryptocurrency, according to this article, were Medjadovich's actions unlawful? 
That's the big question. 
There is a theory, in some academic cryptocurrency thought, that because blockchain technology is based on publicly available or open source programming code, and is based on a laissez-faire contract theory, that the code is law. 
That means if one is able to trade with a blockchain participant within the parameters of the programming code, or the notional contract among the voluntary participants, the result is lawful, whatever it may be. 
This theory holds that voluntary participants accept and are bound by the results of the use of the technology. 
This is the judge saying this, by the way. 
That means that if a clever person can devise a way to exploit a loophole or weakness in the code to induce the holder to enter into an unexpected and unfavorable transaction, more power to him or her. 
The code is public, and the users are deemed to take the risk of placing their cryptocurrency assets in a repository with a program that functions as it does with whatever vulnerabilities it may have. 
I don't know, Alex, how do you read that? 
It sounds like the judge is seeing his perspective here. 
I'm not getting the same hard-line attitude that I see here in the States. 
No, I think it's an interesting exposition that the judge prepared here, and I think it really gets into the philosophy of this laissez-faire attitude towards cryptocurrencies and smart contracts, but I think what the judge is probably setting this up to do is compare it with an actual contract and real-world consequences and contract law principles that have been part of the common law for literally hundreds of years that are anathema to this notion of buyer beware or fraudulent inducement via some kind of contract without any consequences. 
There are real-world laws and real-world consequences that come along with actions and engaging in certain types of activities, and you cannot have contracts, smart or otherwise, that memorialize and grant legality to otherwise illegal acts. 
I think that this philosophy is somewhat shallow and short-sighted and a bit black and white about the nature of smart contracts and how they can impact the real world because there are real legal issues and real legal precedents that are directly and diametrically opposed to this. 
That being said, I think there are some components of what can happen on a blockchain and what can happen via a smart contract that can be binding and that can encourage or discourage certain types of activities or behaviors on the parts of the individuals that are parties to that contract. 
That's part of what contracts do. 
They hold you to certain standards of performance and conduct and remuneration. 
I think at certain times, albeit in a basic level, smart contracts can accomplish the same thing that an actual contract does. 
This makes me think a lot about Gil and I just recently watched the movie Sneakers from 1992, and there is a rant to the villain in that movie where he's talking about how it's all just electrons now. 
It's not about who has the most guns or the most money. 
It's all just bits of data. 
It's all just electrons. 
We've now reached the ridiculous extreme of that where we've decided that not only is information valuable, but we've decided that a certain type of information, the proof that a computer did some math at some point, sitting on a hard drive is itself now money. 
When money is basically totaled up on a file like points in a video game, it's no wonder that this whole thing has been gamified. 
Attitudes toward it develop, like Medjadovich seems to have, treating it all as this weird, metaverse-y, video game-y bit of fun, while people around it are having to deal with the results of the fact that lots of people feel like it's real money going on. 
Precisely. 
That says it very well. 
In a world where NFTs are a thing, how can you take any of this seriously? 
It is all just like a game. 
Go ahead, Kyle. 
You can if you sort of feel this will make its way into a future where you can recoup or add some kind of value to it. 
Sorry, I don't know what's wrong with your microphone, but it's acting up in one way or another. 
I didn't pay my blockchain. 
Maybe you've got to settle that. 
But just to give you a sense, the judge really seems to be reaching out here, and I think that's important. 
That's something we don't have in this country. 
I keep thinking of Virgil's case and how he was dealt with so harshly through the most literal interpretations of law. 
But in this particular case, listen to what the judge says about Medjadovich here. 
He may raise an interesting, timely, and important issue about the relationship between the common law and blockchain technology, but he has to participate to advance his position. 
I can assure Andian Medjadovich that litigation is not like a fine wine that improves with age. 
Now is the best time to come forward to be heard, to assert any defenses, and if possible, to settle before further damage is done to anyone. 
That tells me that at least they're saying something that sounds a bit reassuring. 
I just think so many cases around us would be settled in a much more humane way with this kind of attitude, rather than, well, this is what the law says, and my hands are tied, and there's no exceptions, and you're going away for the rest of your life. 
There's something not healthy about that. 
Well, I like what the judge did there, which was explain through his order or opinion, is what I guess that was, that he understands the philosophy that the respondent adheres to. 
I'm not even going to attempt his name, and is willing to meet him there halfway. 
But I just think it's kind of funny. 
I mean, the judge said exactly what I thought he was going to say, which is referencing the common law and encouraging the respondent to show up in court, come here, let's settle this before it gets out of hand, because things will get out of hand, and I hope this is settled in a way that doesn't destroy lives. 
All right, and moving on to another story that I mentioned. 
This came about yesterday. 
U.S. 
Justice Department unraveled its biggest ever cryptocurrency theft, seizing a record-shattering $3.6 billion in Bitcoin tied to the 2016 hack of digital currency exchange Bitfinex, and arresting a husband and wife team on money laundering charges. 
Yeah, this is like Ozark in real life. 
Ilya, known as Dutch Lichtenstein, and his wife, Heather Morgan, are both New Yorkers who were arrested in Manhattan. 
They spent the illegal proceeds on items ranging from gold and non-fungible tokens to a $500 Walmart gift card. 
Wait a minute. 
If you have that much money, I don't think a $500 Walmart gift card is really what you should be leading the story with. 
Well, more than one would, and maybe they have a stockpile of those particular... 
Well, then they should have used the perro. 
They really should have. 
I think if I turn the Skype people off while you talk, you'll sound better. 
Go ahead. 
Try now. 
What do you mean? 
Like this? 
Yeah. 
You sound much better if I turn the Skype people off. 
They can't talk now, but you can, so say what you want to say. 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
It's nice to be back. 
All right, good, but now I'm turning the Skype people on. 
Try talking. 
Why? 
See? 
There's a big difference. 
We have to fix this. 
Can you turn those down a little bit? 
I can turn them down, but then we can't hear them, and we don't hear you much better. 
You don't. 
Actually, we do hear you a little bit better. 
Oh, you do? 
Yeah. 
Alex, can we hear you now? 
Can you say something? 
The swift brown fox jumps over the lake. 
You know, I can live with that. 
I can live with that. 
Anyway, continuing with the story. 
Well, now I sound crappy. 
The couple had active public profiles with... 
I'm turning them down because it does sound terrible when they're up. 
The couple had active public profiles with Morgan, known as rap singer Rousecon. 
A pseudonym she set on her website referred to Genghis Khan, but with more pizzazz. 
Why am I reading that? 
I don't care. 
It was the Justice Department's biggest financial seizure, Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco said, adding in a statement that shows cryptocurrency is not a safe haven for criminals. 
It's also not a safe haven for people trying to save or make money. 
So I'd be very careful about this. 
Yeah, billions. 
Now, interesting thing about this is that these folks were known in the area. 
They were basically giving talks in at the Williamsburg Hotel in Brooklyn. 
One of the talks was entitled, and this could have been a hope talk. 
How does social engineer your way into anything? 
Yeah, that was at a speaker series known as NYC Salon. 
She defined social engineering as the act of manipulating someone into divulging information or taking a particular action. 
Well, you know, everybody defines it that way. 
She basically told the crowd at that particular talk that she had sent 10,000 cold e-mails over the previous decade and had helped 720 companies improve e-mail campaigns. 
The talk focused mostly on how to crash events, suggesting that would-be crashers bring cash for tips, wear a black T-shirt to appear as if they were security, and also bring layered outfits in case they need to change their look quickly. 
Her presentation ended with another slide. 
How can you social engineer yourself out of a bad situation? 
And there was an image on the slide of two cuffed hands behind bars. 
Well, now apparently that's something that these two can use because they're in a whole hell of a lot of trouble. 
Wow, $3.6 billion in Bitcoin. 
The thing is, though, I'm not sure, is this the value when it was stolen or the value now? 
Because those are two very, very different numbers. 
Neither. 
Neither, meaning what? 
Neither, meaning I'm looking at a story. 
The total 119,754 Bitcoin that were stolen worth 71 million when Bitfinex was hacked in 2016 are now worth more than $4.5 billion. 
So, yes, a little bit of both. 
Can we go back to the Walmart gift cards for a second? 
Because that bit stuck in my brain for a moment. 
They live in New York City. 
We don't have Walmart here. 
Why did they buy that many Walmart gift cards if there's no place to go with them here? 
I can't help but wonder if it's some sort of weird scammy thing that they're trying to- Okay, now I'm just conspiracy theorizing. 
But, no, that's weird. 
There's no Walmart in New York City. 
Hang on. 
These folks stole $3.6 billion, allegedly, and you're accusing them of being scammers? 
Well, I'm just curious why it was that they got Walmart gift cards when there's no Walmart in New York City. 
For example, the fact that there's no Walmart in New York City comes up more than you'd think. 
My health insurer a couple weeks ago was like, our preferred provider for COVID test kits is Walmart. 
Well, there's no Walmart in New York City. 
Okay, Gila, you've now said there's no Walmart in New York City about five times. 
You're really happy about this, aren't you? 
I'm focused. 
That's all I'm saying. 
I'm just a dog with a bone here. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Well, one thing about this that I think I'm theorizing that what they were trying to do was find a way to launder their money because you can have $4.5 billion worth of mathematical space monies, but the basic defining feature of most cryptocurrencies, if they're blockchain-based, is that anybody can take a look and see what goes where and what transactions. 
And so if you've got these stolen tokens and you try to move them somewhere else, people are going to be able to follow that trail. 
And so I think if they were trying to find a way to somehow turn their bits and bytes into regular-ass dollars, maybe the Walmart gift cards were a step on that path. 
And then they were going to go on the run, and there's Walmart everywhere but New York City. 
So you can use money-laundered Walmart gift cards to hide your tracks. 
I think we're on to something here, you guys. 
You know, we had Kmarts in New York City. 
Did they all go out of business? 
I know the one in Astor Place went out of business. 
I know the one by Penn Station went out of business, too. 
Does anybody know? 
I think they're mostly gone, yeah. 
Did you guys hear the Hotel Pennsylvania caught on fire the other day? 
Yes. 
It's true, it happened. 
They're demolishing it inside, and something happened, and there was all this smoke pouring out. 
It was kind of ironic because it literally was the same time that Hope tickets went on sale for our conference this summer. 
They went on sale Monday, and right about the time they went on sale, our former home, the Hotel Pennsylvania, caught fire. 
It knew. 
I feel terrible. 
I mean, I don't feel guilty, but I do feel sad because that was our home, and we had decided to move to a better place before Hotel Pennsylvania got the death sentence. 
But it's sad. 
It makes me angry because what they're replacing it with, it's a nightmare. 
It's just going to be an office tower with few people having access as opposed to a place where thousands of people came to see New York City for the first time. 
It's just sad. 
But, yeah, that happened on Monday. 
Yes, Hope tickets are now on sale. 
We basically opened that up for our conference taking place July 22nd through 24th. 
Do I have the dates right? 
Yes. 
Okay, thank you. 
July 22nd to 24th of this year at St. 
John's University, which is an awesome space. 
We keep going back there. 
We can't get enough of the place. 
We're looking forward to this, our first conference in a new home and our first hopefully post-COVID conference where we can meet in person, or if not completely post-COVID, at least enough removed from it where it's not a safety hazard for anyone in attendance. 
All the information is at hope.net. 
We are also trying to get as many people as possible to participate in one way or another because that's what really is going to define what this conference turns out to be. 
We have basically an almost unlimited amount of space, so we can do a lot. 
We can do an awful lot of things, or we can do a little bit and then expand and keep getting bigger and bigger. 
It's up to us what we want to do as far as attendance, as far as people presenting talks and panels, seminars and workshops. 
We have space for all of it. 
If you go to hope.net, there's information on all different ways you can participate, including volunteering and helping us to run the conference. 
It's going to be amazing. 
It's as historical as the first conference. 
Let's put it that way. 
In 1994, we did what no one else in this country had done before, and that's have a big conference, a big hacker conference. 
Yeah, there were lots of little hacker conferences. 
I'm talking about 75 people, but we had the first one that was 1,000 plus. 
It was inspired by the hacker conferences that were taking place overseas, both in Germany and in the Netherlands. 
That was a turning point. 
I think I remember the date, August 13th and 14th, 1994. 
I can remember that more than I can remember the current dates, but that just changed everything. 
From that point on, it became possible to have these massive gatherings, and ever since then, we've been doing it every couple of years. 
This is the first time that we are moving to a different place and changing the way we do things. 
Having more space, a lot more outdoor space too, which is great. 
The mood is going to be different. 
It's going to be so inspirational. 
Please be a part of it, whether it's just attending or whether it's presenting, whether it's building something or whatever you feel. 
We're open to all kinds of ideas. 
We have many email addresses. 
You can contact us. 
They're all listed at Hope.net. 
We really want, in the spirit of the campus environment, to have more of a show-and-tell atmosphere and exhibits of all kinds. 
If you're working on something really cool and you want to show and share with everyone, we'd love to host you in our vendor area or help you set up and share or host a workshop or perform and be a part of an artistic presentation. 
There's a lot of room. 
If you're doing cool stuff with LEDs and lighting, we'd love to do more displays and stuff like we've done in our old space, but more of it. 
A lot more. 
Of course, we'll have sorts of lounges. 
I think a lot of the spaces are going to mix and connect in weird ways. 
Hopefully, like Hack Center sort of things will have good sound and lights as well. 
But we want everyone to feel comfortable and really take advantage of all of that and show off and really be with one another in that crazy kind of way. 
It's a much healthier environment because it's an academic environment as opposed to a commercial hotel in the middle of Midtown. 
That had its charms, but it was very crowded. 
It was very dirty. 
We kind of got the feeling that we were in hostile territory as far as management always looking over our shoulders. 
Here, we're in an environment where we're being encouraged to do creative experimental things. 
They get the hacker mindset. 
The fact that it's in Queens is actually a really good thing because you have the space now. 
Gila, I know you spent a lot of time researching transit options. 
Please don't be afraid of Queens, folks. 
It's easy to get to whether you're coming from Manhattan and certainly if you're coming from other parts of the country or world. 
It's so close to LaGuardia Airport and Kennedy Airport. 
If you're driving, we actually can give you free parking. 
It's New York City. 
Imagine that. 
There are so many more options available to us because we're in this different environment. 
It's really easy to get to. 
Would you say we've covered just about all the options on the website, Gila? 
We've covered pretty much all the options. 
The website, we take you to campus once you get to New York. 
Any way you get to New York, we can get you to St. 
John's. 
If you decide that you want to take Amtrak to New York City, we can get you here from Penn Station. 
If you decide you want to fly here, we can get you here from the airports. 
If you decide you want to cross the Atlantic on the QE2, we can help you get here. 
If you want to teleport to New York City, if you've got that technology set up, we can give you the exact street address to get you to campus. 
New York City is one of the easiest places to get to in the world. 
It really is. 
Once you get into New York City, getting to St. 
John's is also pretty simple. 
Any way you want to travel, we can get you here. 
That is true. 
However, taking the QE2 would be one hell of a challenge as that is currently a floating hotel on the West Coast. 
I think you mean the QM2. 
That's the one I meant. 
Okay. 
If you take that, I'm not sure what their schedule is, but yes, it's easy to get to as well. 
We are working on all sorts of accommodation options. 
We have one hotel already, which is just about a mile away from the conference. 
It's very easy to get back and forth. 
They have a discount grade already, but that's only the first of a bunch that I believe we're going to be getting. 
Yes. 
We'll have much more information about housing for everybody. 
Again, because it is so easy to get to St. 
John's, there are options we're providing, but don't let that stop you. 
If you want to stay in Manhattan, it's easy enough to get back and forth. 
If you want to stay on Staten Island and ride the ferry, you can do that too. 
The choice is yours. 
Who comes to New York and stays in Staten? 
Okay. 
Whatever options you have, that's fine. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
I think a really interesting option too is that if you don't feel like venturing around, you can stay at the conference itself for all three days. 
You stay up all three days and you don't even have to change your moccasins or put on your boots and go out around Manhattan or Brooklyn. 
You can just stay put and experience, what would it be, about 70 hours of hope? 
Yes, but please change your damn moccasins. 
For the people around you, it's courteous. 
We don't want a lot of smelly, tired people. 
There are going to be so many options, so many ways that you can benefit and enjoy yourself. 
I hope people get the most out of it. 
I heard the hammocks are coming back. 
Hammocks are coming back? 
Yes, we're setting up the turf. 
Wow. 
We got that. 
That will be in effect. 
Yes, there are all sorts of things, hope traditions and new traditions that we'll be making. 
Anyway, that's the news there. 
Hope.net, please help us make this the beginning of a brand new era in hope history. 
Yes, I'm really enthused and terrified at the same time because, boy, it's different. 
It's different, but different things in our world tend to be kind of awesome. 
Okay, moving back to some of the news that's been going on, again, involving crypto. 
A hired hacker helped Dan Reich recover millions worth of cryptocurrency. 
It's not a story unless it's millions. 
You realize that? 
Yes, it's got to be millions of dollars or it's just not worth the time to read it. 
Yes, millions worth of cryptocurrency from a hardware wallet that he lost the password for years ago. 
Oh, my. 
Can you imagine anything worse than that? 
In a story titled Cracking a $2 Million Crypto Wallet, The Verge reported that four years ago, Reich and a friend used $50,000 worth of Bitcoin to purchase a new cryptocurrency called Theta Tokens worth 21 cents each and later stored them in a Trezor hardware wallet. 
Reich wanted to cash out after the token sunk to a fourth of its value, but he and his friend forgot the PIN. 
They made 12 guesses, then quit, not wanting to get too close to the 16th guess, at which point, oh, my God, that wallet would automatically erase all of its data. 
That's nasty. 
Boy. 
And who does that benefit exactly? 
Where does the money go when that happens? 
Reich wrote off the loss until 2020 when the token started surging. 
So in a way, it's kind of good he forgot his password because, hey, it started surging again. 
And that made the wallet worth millions. 
So then, still not able to get in and only four guesses left, he started looking for hackers. 
And in February of last year, when the wallet was worth $2.5 million, he discovered Joe Grant. 
Hey, we know Joe Grant, the kingpin from The Loft. 
Yeah. 
You know, if anyone can do this, he'd be at the top of the list, as well he should be. 
An electrical engineer, hardware hacker who advises companies on how to protect their products. 
Reich wrote about his story on a blog, and the two hired a film crew to document the hacking. 
In the video description, Grant said he thought the hacking would be a slam dunk. 
Little did I realize the project would turn into a rollercoaster ride with over three months of experimentation, failures, successes, and heart-stopping moments. 
In this case, the stakes were higher than normal. 
I had only one chance to get it right. 
And finally, in May, he was ready to deploy a computer program that would unlock the wallet. 
Reich flew to Portland to give the wallet to Grant, and within several hours, he did it. 
Yeah. 
Wow. 
That's a great story. 
I'd love to hear Joe Grant tell that story. 
I'm sure we'll hear that at some point. 
But, yeah, forget your password. 
You could lose millions. 
What do you guys think? 
Yeah, look, I've got several matters where people have lost cryptocurrency, and we're actively helping them to recover that cryptocurrency. 
And sometimes it's technical means, sometimes it's legal means, and sometimes it determines whether or not it's a hot wallet that's connected to the Internet or a cold wallet. 
And going back to the Bitfinex hack that we had addressed before we digressed to the issue of hope, that had to deal with segregated wallets back in 2016. 
But there's lots of tracking and tracing going on. 
If you've lost your cryptocurrency to some kind of theft, it may make sense to try to recover it using legal and technical means together. 
And if so, I would certainly encourage anybody to reach out to me. 
I'm happy to discuss this. 
It's one of my favorite things to talk about lately. 
That's true. 
We can't shut them up. 
So how do people reach you, Alex? 
Well, people can generally find me, I guess. 
Just Google my name, Alex Urbelis, or A-Urbelis, U-R-B-E-L-I-S, at crowell, C-R-O-W-E-L-L, dot com. 
You can reach me at my law firm address. 
I'd be happy to discuss any of those issues with you. 
You can also write to O-T-H at 2600.com, and that gets to all of us. 
And don't lose this stuff because it's a tremendous waste. 
It's incredibly wasteful to have created all of this value and this token that would just be in a landfill or just disappear into the ether. 
A tremendous amount of good could be done with it. 
Absolutely, absolutely. 
Hey, we're almost out of time, but we're going to be doing overtime. 
You can find the link on the main 2600.com web page up on top, or you can simply go to Channel 2600 on YouTube and join us at 8 o'clock, and you can call us and be on the air yourself, except there's really no air to be on, but you'll be on the net. 
And what do you have there, a dial tone? 
Yeah, I was just testing it. 
All right, we have a phone, so we have a phone, and hopefully our audio is even less screwed up than it is now. 
I apologize. 
Well, we'll see. 
We'll figure it out. 
It's always some kind of fun. 
I'll find some time to fix it. 
We were talking about number stations last week, and we had at least one listener write in to tell us. 
We asked about the frequency of the number station called UVB-76. 
The frequency is 4625 kilohertz, and it can be heard all over Europe, mainly at night, which is what it is right now, European listeners. 
So maybe you can turn to 4625 kilohertz and hear number stations. 
You may hear it occasionally in the U.S. when conditions are right. 
Alex is correct in saying that all that happened with the pirates is that they just transmitted over the top of it, effectively jamming it, but only locally. 
That's fascinating, and thank you, Neil, for sending in that information. 
We have to hook up our shortwave and listen for number stations and hear spy messages and things like that. 
Well, you have to get the ground set up just right, and it's a whole art. 
There's a lot of opinions about how to do it, but I have some bits and pieces. 
It's in the works. 
All right. 
Hey, we've got to go out. 
Speaking of pirates and radio and things like that, I've got vinyl here. 
Hold on a second. 
Let me put this down. 
There we go. 
Yeah, our outro tonight is on vinyl. 
There's nothing wrong with that. 
We will be back next week. 
You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, and we'll be on Overtime in just a moment, Channel 2600 on YouTube, and follow the link on the top of 2600.com. 
All the way. 
Absolutely. 
Good night. 


And we are here on YouTube. 
Welcome, everybody. 
It's off the hook over time. 
It's been two weeks since we were last together, and we're just waiting for the thumbs up that we're on YouTube. 
It takes a little while for that to happen. 
Of course, we have our own challenges here with our board. 
Yeah. 
Okay, we're good. 
You guys can talk out there in Skype. 
Let's see if we can hear you all right. 
We're allowed to speak? 
Yeah, you are. 
You absolutely are. 
Well, that's very exciting. 
Okay, I think we're all good. 
But of course, when we bring a phone in, it's going to do something else. 
But for those of you out there that want to call us, don't call us yet, because we haven't given out the phone number yet. 
And it's rude to call somebody before they give you their phone number. 
Did you know that? 
That's phone courtesy. 
It's presumptuous. 
Yeah, very presumptuous. 
And we have other things to discuss first before we get there. 
See, this is what I was trying to avoid. 
Please don't do that. 
That's rude. 
You're making it hard for us to talk. 
You know, it's you're barging in. 
And it's just it's not very nice. 
Plus, we can tell who you are, too. 
We have caller ID. 
So we see your number. 
We see your number. 
And maybe we won't pick up in the future. 
How do I know if it's rebel doesn't say rebel on the caller ID? 
Well, you should be familiar with the number by now. 
Why would you jump to that conclusion? 
You know, why is he the the only person who would do that? 
Okay. 
Historically speaking, he's the he's been the first caller on numerous. 
That was like 50 years ago. 
I know. 
But maybe maybe he's grown since then. 
We'll see. 
Okay, well, give out the phone number a little bit. 
And then then you all can call in and have at it. 
Okay, so we didn't get to this on the on the main show. 
But I wanted to talk about this a little bit. 
And this I know, Kyle, this is something that's near and dear to your heart concerning the right to repair up in Massachusetts. 
Back in late 2020, Massachusetts lawmakers, they had overwhelming public support. 
They passed an expansion of the state's right to repair law. 
That original law was the first in the nation to be passed back in 2013. 
Originally, it was passed 2013. 
And 2020, they, they expanded it. 
Now, it was dramatically improved with that update. 
As of this year, according to the update, all new telematics equipped vehicles have to be accessible via a standardized transparent platform that allows owners and third party repair shops to access vehicle data via a mobile device. 
The goal is to reduce repair monopolies and make it cheaper and easier to get your vehicle repaired. 
And of course, car manufacturers don't much like that idea. 
And they set about trying to demonize the law with false claims and a $26 million ad campaign, including get this one ad that falsely claimed the expansion would help. 
And I want to guess who this would help right to repair sexual predators. 
Yeah, of course, makes perfect sense, doesn't it? 
If you have the right to repair your car, you're opening up the floodgates to sexual predators. 
It takes a certain pervert to want to fix your own car. 
Yeah. 
Yeah, well, yeah, it's, um, it's, it's nuts. 
Um, here's, here's a bit of the commercial that they, uh, they aired to, um, to, uh, put forth that idea. 
A camera slowly stalks a woman walking to her SUV in a desolate, empty parking garage. 
Um, if question one, which is what they refer to this as, um, passes in Massachusetts, anyone could access the most personal data stored in your vehicle. 
Domestic violence advocates say a sexual predator could use the data to stalk their victims, pinpoint exactly where you are, whether you are alone. 
The woman's keys jingle as she approaches her car, the camera gets closer, the woman whips her head around, the stalker has found her, the screen flashes to black. 
Vote no on one, the narrator says. 
Yeah. 
How do you feel now, Kyle? 
Uh, even more, uh, uh, upset or at least, uh, annoyed by this, this whole, uh, this whole thing. 
I, I've, I've long, uh, railed about this. 
I could go on and on and on. 
Um, I, I think it's just, it's truly, um, it's truly important to, to make sure people have access to this stuff. 
Um, and I just, it, it irks me. 
I, I get kind of sickened hearing about this kind of stuff. 
It keeps going one way, like there's positive, uh, support. 
Then it comes back. 
It's, it's back and forth. 
There's a real tug of war for this. 
Right. 
And it is in so many of, uh, why is it my voice that gets screwed up? 
Can I just talk? 
I would love that. 
Talk to the board. 
Go ahead. 
Anyway. 
Yeah. 
Things that break should be repairable. 
I don't know what I was saying. 
I just, the, the point when things like vehicles and, and, and, uh, devices we're using have computers, things that could have multi, multiple users and levels of privileges and, and, uh, access and safeguards and, and logging all of, all of that somehow is out the window when it comes to consumers fixing or, and, uh, maintaining their equipment. 
And it's just really, really unfair. 
And I think the larger problem with this is it's, um, it's, uh, it's about profits and, um, creates just an obscene amount of waste because people will take the path of least resistance. 
You'll ask a friend for help and they don't know how to solder or they don't know how to, uh, debug something or, or, uh, dump data or, or, uh, man in the middle and get the logs when you, you don't have access to them for whatever, whatever it takes with these systems. 
You know, they're just going to tell you to throw it out instead because they had the same problem. 
We're in a culture of, um, of, of, um, diminishing, uh, uh, uh, empowerment around this issue. 
And it should be actually going in the opposite direction. 
We have more tools. 
We have more, uh, knowledge now than ever. 
We have more, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, I, I don't know, creativity and, and, and, and innovation around us than ever. 
And yet we're lulled into thinking that you either, um, pay by whatever really limited rules, some, uh, entity wants to give you with a product, uh, or, or move on because you don't, you don't want to play by their rules and their rules are, are causing waste. 
And, and, and then they're, they're characterizing, uh, and, and getting a group of voters really, I guess, scared women in parking lots, which is, I guess, a huge voter, uh, a group or something, getting them to be horrified and to vote exactly as this, uh, campaign suggests. 
And I, I just find this, it's, it's, it's so, uh, repugnant. 
It's, it's the wrong direction. 
It's, it's, uh, it's an affront. 
It's, it's a real affront to consumers. 
I, I hope every last consumer rights group, uh, uh, uh, organization for repair and in every regard fights this stuff ever more. 
Cause again, it's a tug of war, keeps going one way or the other, and I I'll stop, but I just, I'm really, really, I get really upset about this. 
I just, uh, the way we're dealing with our technical issues, I have to, uh, um, uh, cut off the sky people while you talk and while I talk, but then when we bring them in, we're going to keep quiet. 
Uh, except to say that if you're having trouble with our stream, I'm getting an error message here saying YouTube is not receiving enough. 
And that just went off the screen. 
So that's helpful. 
YouTube really helpful, but apparently people might be experiencing buffering. 
If you are experiencing buffering, I don't know what to do about it, but, uh, I can tell you this, you will hear a much better version of this show on the 2600.com, uh, website, uh, not the YouTube website. 
Yeah. 
It's not there anymore, Kyle. 
The message went away. 
I'll let you not, not saying that, um, the stream's current bit rate is higher than the recommended bit rate. 
We recommend that you, and then it goes off the screen. 
So I don't really know or care. 
Um, Gila, you had, you had something. 
I did. 
Yeah. 
Um, I think first of all, to say in what relates to kind of piggyback on what Kyle is saying that we've been talking about the sense that as a culture, you have to monetize whatever it is you're doing. 
So in the same way that you have to monetize your hobbies, if you want to fix your friend's car, no one's getting paid for that. 
So I think that also ties into, if the company's not making money, then the wrong person is making the money. 
And I think it's also interesting. 
There was a piece I sent into the show not long before we went on air, so it may not have made the news list for this evening, but this thing in Seattle where people who drive Mazdas, their car radios got bricked if they listened to a specific station. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Um, I, I saw this come across a, um, uh, apparently K U O W is, is this what if they listened to the station, that car got bricked or if they didn't listen to the station, the car got bricked. 
If they did their, their car radio got bricked. 
If they tuned into a specific station, uh, apparently the signal sent the signal from the station sent to the modern HD radio, that's part of the Mazda infotainment center fried a major component and now they can't change the station. 
Yeah. 
And, uh, as soon as it was tuned to that, that was it. 
It was, it was stuck on that station. 
Wow. 
I misread the story. 
I thought that people couldn't tune away from that NPR station, but apparently that's the kind of thing I expect to happen to be AI people tuned to that station. 
Uh, all of a sudden the radio goes, goes nuts and, uh, and it's becomes completely useless in the future. 
Completely bricked. 
And if you can't, you have to go get the, get a $1,500 part from the dealer. 
That's the only option. 
Um, and you know, you, the, the, when he contacted the dealership, they told me that there's nothing they can do about it, that I needed a new CMU unit that had cost $1,500 and that they didn't have the part. 
Wow. 
Uh, okay. 
Uh, and, and, uh, where does it stand now? 
Now that this is a new story, I imagine that they might be a little bit more generous, maybe an apology, maybe free repairs. 
You're funny. 
Okay. 
Well, okay. 
Check in in the morning. 
I'll bet the story will change by then. 
Uh, anyway, going back to Massachusetts, um, uh, the, um, the law, uh, again passed with the overwhelming support of voters, uh, automakers sued to stop it. 
And that has delayed its implementation. 
The same coalition of automakers, GM, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, they're pushing new legislation that would delay implementation even further to 2025. 
Yeah. 
So, you know, it's, it's, it's really annoying. 
And I heard, uh, Kyle, maybe you can, um, uh, um, illustrate this a little more, but there was one car maker. 
Is it Mazda? 
Do they still exist? 
That, uh, basically they are, when they sell cars in Massachusetts, they don't have certain features because of this law. 
So basically they're, they're selling versions of cars up there that don't take advantage of technology because people have dared to pass a law that, um, uh, doesn't give them a monopoly. 
Did you hear something like that? 
Sure. 
This goes on with, uh, regionalizing of all kinds of different products, but it's, so it's not necessarily unique, but this seems, uh, targeted or tailored specifically, um, because of the types of legislation. 
It's punishment, definitely punishment. 
Indeed. 
And it just, it just gets me because the cars are getting simpler. 
Like there are less parts, there's less moving, uh, uh, parts there are, um, becoming more, um, um, more like, uh, circuitry stuff. 
You can do sorts of diagnostics in, in ways that there are, you know, the vehicles telling you that certain systems need attention and where to look for a specific problem that has evolved over many, many years. 
And, uh, the sanctimonious and, um, uh, uh, uh, sort of, uh, restrictive attitude, just, just completely shutting it down, not saying, not having any kind of good faith around creating systems for, um, independent, independent operators and, and fleets and owners and, uh, people in industrial sectors that maintain their own equipment, they have to, uh, because of how they're using it or, um, the average person that wants to avoid encountering big, huge bills where a central control unit is, is, um, it, you know, it used to be, you could replace just a radio and these things are sort of, um, managed and one in the same as an infotainment, a so-called infotainment unit. 
So, uh, it, it's, uh, it's pretty awful that, you know, all of the other systems, because some of your radio passes through this one control unit, all of the other systems have to get a new one off the shelf. 
Many, many other parts of that board or that, um, control unit might still function, might be just fine, but because no one is interested in component level repair, they're not, um, we're not teaching and we're not doing enough micro soldering. 
We're not, um, you know. 
And the industry is, but people are certainly interested in that. 
Well, right. 
And, and we're not, and, and the, in the industry isn't supporting people who would take the time to do that kind of repair work and it hasn't been supported. 
It hasn't been stood up in any way. 
So there's, you know, maybe a little bit with cell phone repair, but even that has been on really, uh, uh, uh, uh, unsteady ground, you know, the footing for that industry alone has been back and forth. 
We've, we've had stories like this constantly. 
So I just, I just really want to see a strong wide stance. 
I know other unlikely issues in, in, in the past, like cannabis or whatever it is we're talking about, you know, those, those took time and it takes smaller wins. 
So I hate to see a place like Boston or up in Canada go a little bit in one direction, then back because, uh, manufacturers find out and start, uh, forming these coalitions and, and get really, really kind of, uh, abusive and, and, and retaliatory. 
Go ahead, Gila. 
Uh, speaking as a member of the highly coveted women who get scared in parking lots demographic, I also resent the cynicism of saying that if you want to get your car repaired by somebody else, just adding that to another list of things that women who drive cars are told they need to be afraid of. 
So you're told that you have to carry your keys between your fingers, park under a streetlight, don't wear your hair in a ponytail. 
And oh, by the way, you can only get your car fixed in one place. 
Deeply, deeply cynical and preying on fears that are inculcated into women, non-binary people, what have you, in ways that can be very detrimental to the point. 
It's like, did people not want women to have cars? 
Is that where we're going with this? 
Is that what the opposition to right to repair is leading to? 
Yeah, totally. 
It just, it's creates a stereotype that, uh, that, that you're a victim, that you, you are helpless in some way as a consumer. 
Um, regardless, yeah, it's, it's awful. 
I think it's really, it really lends and to this sort of disempowerment and that, um, that because you can't handle it, they, they have to be the ones in charge of this. 
And, and then it's in, it's for your, in this really like paternal way, it's like for your own good. 
Well, um, the plus about all this is that it's bringing a lot of people together. 
As, uh, Tommy Hickey, the director of, uh, matches his right to repair coalition said after spending $26 million only to be resoundingly defeated at the ballot box, the big automakers and dealers still don't get it. 
And, um, whether it's, uh, people driving cars or people driving tractors, we're all kind of uniting, uh, against the automakers on this and saying that we want the right to be able to repair the, the, uh, vehicles, uh, machinery that we have bought and, uh, we have every right to do that. 
And, and the voters agree. 
So it's good to see it, um, uh, go in a positive direction. 
They will lose in the end. 
The question is how much time are they going to waste? 
Uh, yes, go ahead, Alex. 
I think since we're so passionate about this issue, perhaps we could get a bunch of people together that are affected by this type of issue and maybe start something like a convoy. 
What do you, what do you think about that? 
I think that's a bad idea. 
I don't think that's a good idea. 
I don't think it's, it's, it's not honestly, we don't have to sort the, it's not for us to solve. 
Uh, it's out there. 
People care a lot about this. 
I mean, I think we're in a good position to solve it and I do like convoys, but I just, you know, they've been ruined. 
They've been ruined by those idiots. 
I don't have a hot tub. 
I don't have like a sauna on the back of a truck that I can rig up quickly enough for that. 
But in seriousness, I think like people are really talking about this, they're connected in, in all the sort of, uh, modern ways you'd think of. 
And I've, I just, I'm glad we're continuing to cover this. 
I'd love to see it in the rear view mirror. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
With that, uh, well, let's give out the phone number now. 
802-321-4225 is our telephone number. 
Now everybody has an equal chance to call us 802-321-HACK. 
And, um, I will try to make up, uh, for everything by being quick to answer some calls and it's not a question of being quick. 
I'm paying attention. 
It's what I'm saying. 
One channel, not, uh, colliding with another channel, which is what we seem to have with this, with this board here. 
I will fix it. 
We have to, we have to spend time. 
I think a call might be coming in. 
Um, uh, it says call from error. 
Boy, this caller ID box is worth the money, wasn't it? 
Um, was there a call or not? 
Did you pick up? 
There is a call. 
All right, let's, um, pick up and good evening. 
You're on off the hook overtime. 
Hi. 
Um, can you hear me? 
Uh, yes, we can hear you fine. 
Okay. 
Uh, I'm one of the lucky ones. 
I was able to get a hope ticket. 
Um, looking forward to it this summer. 
Um, I just had a question. 
Uh, the email I received, it said, your order is confirmed. 
You'll receive an email when your order is ready. 
Do you have any kind of an idea? 
Is that, uh, a few weeks, a few months before I'll receive that follow-up email when my order is ready? 
It'll be closer to the conference. 
It'll probably be in June. 
Okay. 
Sometime in June. 
Well, really looking forward to that. 
Yeah, we are too. 
It's going to be awesome. 
And, uh, just had a question about, you were talking about the word meta before in the show, you know, that the term metaverse was actually coined by Neil Stevenson. 
And, um, I, I'd be curious to know what, uh, he makes of, uh, Mark Zuckerberg sort of, uh, hijacking, you know, hijacking the term by, uh, rebranding his company is meta, which makes about as much sense as calling his company air. 
It just seems like a really dumb idea to me. 
And, um, I think really people are going to say I'm really disappointed with the media buying into it. 
Yeah. 
I, I think that it's, it's, um, people try trying to, to, um, be, be at the center of something that, um, was already sort of occurring. 
It seems like, I don't think people were really as aware aware of it, or it was in the lexicon as much when, um, until their, their name changes a sort of firm, uh, direction with this, but it's important to remember this is mostly, it's still, um, emerging the protocols and whatnot for this are still being designed. 
There are, um, there are file formats for this and, and, um, and elements of, of art and design and technical stuff that will go into this and that people have been doing and working on for a really long time. 
And, um, it's, it's exciting, but the big question I've been confronted when, when we were talking about it and, and, uh, who owns the name and stuff, I really started to say like, okay, so if this is the future or what we're supposed to be excited about emerging here, like the question then it seems we're looking at now is who is building your metaverse, you know, or, or who, who built the metaverse that you're going to reside in or, or aiming to, to, um, embrace. 
And I think that's, that's starting to become a question. 
There's been abuse and stuff and, and some of the interactions and, um, uh, and some harassment, stuff like that already. 
Uh, just as we were sort of predicting as, as had been, um, the result of the last sort of social, uh, uh, tool and, and, and media tool that were, we embraced in this, in, in, in a very similar pattern. 
So here we are once again at the, at the, at the, this, uh, precipice of something new and shiny. 
Um, but it's, it's, um, it's yet to really have, uh, edges or, or be something. 
Uh, that's why I like make kind of taking the name and trying to ride on, on this wave of excitement is really just a small piece of, of, of what people are really talking about and working on. 
You know, I typed the word metaverse in a, um, a podcast search engine and I got over 25 hits with a podcast with the type, with the word metaverse in the title. 
So it's definitely got a lot of cachet that word. 
What I wonder is, um, who had rights to the name meta because someone had to have had that before Facebook decided they wanted it. 
So, uh, what kind of deal was made with, uh, with those people or where they just stepped over? 
There was a, uh, some kind of, um, internet, uh, uh, some kind of, uh, internet, uh, market research firm called the meta group. 
I don't know if it still exists. 
Uh, they used to produce these very expensive reports that sold for like $10,000 or more. 
It was like the Gartner group. 
I don't know if they still exist, but it was called the meta group. 
But other than them, I don't know any other company that had the word meta for a, um, a company name. 
I met a hacker name meta. 
You know, a hacker name meta? 
Yeah, I met meta is I guess what I'm saying. 
Oh, well that, that, they might be able to bring down Facebook alone. 
I think he might. 
Um, he's really into like brainwaves and like, uh, visualizing, showing, letting you see your own brainwaves, like imaging them and controlling things. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
Well, you have any talks or panels about the metaverse at the hope conference? 
If people submit them, we will have them. 
And that's why we hope a lot of people submit talk ideas because we're open to all different perspectives and, and, and viewpoints. 
Okay. 
Well, looking forward to it and, uh, see you at hope if not sooner in the metaverse somewhere. 
Thanks a lot. 
Thanks. 
Thanks for calling. 
Thanks for listening. 
Cool. 
8 0 2 3 2 1 4 2 2 5. 
Um, any, any thoughts from, uh, the world of Skype? 
You know, Kyle, I've also known a hacker called meta and, uh, this one was a woman, so it's not who you're speaking about, but, um, there's already name collision happening in the people in the hackers calling themselves meta space. 
Um, I was speaking with a European meta, so I don't know. 
So, um, one of my brother's friends growing up had his mom was named Nita, but it was spelled meta. 
Um, so, you know, it's out there, it's a thing. 
And let's not forget the basketball player meta world piece. 
Oh, I forgot about that. 
Wow. 
You know, actually what I'd like to do is I'd like to, um, uh, figure out what we can make meta stand for and just spread that around as something really derogatory and, and awful that people associate with meta so that Facebook will have to stop using it. 
You know, like, uh, was the M could be most, I think we should just put an H in there. 
Like, man, no, no. 
It's M E T A. 
What does M E T A really stand for? 
This could be a contest for all of us. 
Anybody have anything off top of their heads? 
I think most is, is a good way to start something that is basically describing something horrible. 
Uh, I don't know what the E could stand for. 
Making everything totally awful. 
Wow. 
You just did that. 
That's great. 
Or did somebody already do this? 
No, I just thought of that. 
Making everything totally awful. 
You gotta love that. 
Go ahead. 
Gila. 
Making exclusively terrible alternatives. 
Yeah. 
I'm not a big fan of exclusively in there. 
It's just, it's too big a word. 
Epically. 
Again, you know, once you get into the $20 words there with multiple syllables, I don't know. 
Um, we can work on this, but I, I, I like what you came up with, Kyle. 
I do like that. 
We have a phone call. 
Let's take this one. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the hook overtime. 
It's Phil from Missouri. 
How you guys been? 
Hey, what's up? 
We're all right. 
How are you? 
Oh, not a lot. 
Just listening to you. 
Um, meta is short for metadata. 
You see, he's, he's conning everybody to give more metadata for him to sell. 
True. 
Yeah. 
Well, the whole thing on, I don't understand what is the point of doing this whole medicine. 
Anyway, he wants to have a VR boardroom. 
So a boss can leer at you through, you remember those little toys? 
They're like people need, they'd like bob back and forth and flick them with your finger and stuff like that. 
Bobbleheads? 
Bobbleheads. 
No, not bobblehead, but it's like, it was weighted at the bottom. 
It's just, it's, it's like a punching toy. 
Oh, I know. 
Yeah. 
It's inflatable. 
Uh, Gila, you know? 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
It's what these guys look like in meta and I just don't get it. 
There's, there's actually a thing on steam that called rec room that does exactly what he's showing off there. 
You don't even have to have a VR headset to participate, but you can play, play like golf or first person shooter or play cards, whatever you want to do in there. 
Uh, problem is, is where it's on steam, uh, every, uh, jerk you could think of, racist and otherwise around there to cause a trouble. 
But if you look up brick, brick room, you can see that the, the avatars in there are exactly the same as the avatar he's showing off of meta. 
Just kind of a, you know, a blob with a head on it. 
Um, did you hear about the, you hear about the real estate company that is selling off, uh, VR lots in meta? 
No. 
Yeah. 
I can't remember the name of it. 
Um, today on this, um, YouTube channel called some more news. 
And, uh, apparently they are sending it up so that you can buy lots of land in the meta universe or whatever so that you can own land in meta, which, um, using maybe cryptocurrency or that's how you would do it. 
It's like, uh, you use an NFT as a deed. 
Um, it's, I just don't understand. 
I mean, why don't I want to go to VR, just have the same problems I have in real life, like paying rent and stuff. 
It doesn't make any sense. 
Uh, Rob, did you have something? 
Yeah. 
Um, you want to talk about precursors there, there was a, uh, and still is, um, a program called second life, which, uh, came out in 2003. 
That's 19 years ago. 
And they did all of this. 
Like meta is not adding anything new really to this, but, uh, they had you know, virtual avatars that walk around and user created virtual worlds and you could have meetings and you could go to, you know, go to places that people create and meet your friends and whatever. 
And, uh, this was not a VR, uh, app, at least not in the beginning. 
It was just on a two dimensional screen, but you would walk around in it like any other virtual world. 
And, uh, they also had these schemes where you could buy land in the game to put stuff on that other people could come and see. 
And it was, it was hyped all over the place. 
Um, you know, 10, 15, years ago, I think it peaked. 
Um, but, uh, it was also an example of, they were replicating all the hassles of a capitalistic society, um, trying to sell virtual land, trying to sell virtual goods with none of the material benefits. 
And, uh, you know, I, I, I think it's still around, um, but it's nowhere near as active as it used to be. 
But yeah, they, they did these things many, many years ago and we're making all the same claims about it that, uh, Zuckerberg is now making about meta. 
And I don't think it's any more plausible now than it was, uh, back then. 
I think really what defines it is going to be like where people move towards it, uh, where the audience goes with it. 
And a lot of these worlds won't get much better with the users aren't really there if there isn't much uptake. 
So that's why a lot of stuff is being seeded with celebrities and, and, uh, gimmicks and, and kind of good and bad stuff, just everything being thrown at it. 
And then, I mean, which I agree, like, I think there, the way it is, it's just not that great. 
I mean, or it's been done, there's been versions of it done before it will evolve. 
Were there people there because they would then be pushing, like, think of it as it's nobody there, nobody in it really, uh, invested in it. 
They're not going to be demanding it, do have better functionality or look a certain way. 
It won't be modified. 
And, and so that's really crucial I think now, but imagine it is evolved and, you know, a couple of these things went out and then they're interoperating. 
So you have your like VR clubhouse or VR chat or then, uh, metaverse and all these things, then, you know, can they interoperate in certain ways and how does that then get used? 
And I think this boils down to what we critiqued about this, uh, at the outset, which is that the way they're using this is I think against that same, uh, for-profit, um, model and, in, in harvesting, like you said, metadata and stuff. 
And those, or, or maybe a subscription, I don't know if it gets, you know, that desperate, who knows, but it's not, it shouldn't be that we all flock to or wait for it to be designed for us. 
These standards and so forth, I have not been finalized yet. 
And these companies that want all the users and want to be able to throw their weight around and how all the VR standards are like solidified, they're already there. 
They want to be there like, you know, saying, well, we should have a say because we can, we have this much clout in our, you know, loosely populated, uh, product or, you know, quick to market product. 
But I think people that are really into this and, and where it actually leads is totally for people to define now and, and, uh, and we'll push this in various directions. 
Well, well, I, I, until the younger generation, like real latches onto this, I mean, we think it's cool, but they talked about this since the sixties, right? 
There's all kinds of sci-fi stories that date from back then. 
Like, uh, you know, we remember wholesale, we'll remember for you wholesale, right? 
My, my Philip K Dick. 
Yeah. 
It's cool. 
The way this is not used commercially. 
I think that's the most interesting thing is like how this will be used privately, how this will be used with interested groups, affinity groups, people that want to accomplish something, maybe people that are fixing a car together in a virtual way and tying in our other story. 
But that is, I think the best way that the most boring ways I think are these big companies, what they do with it. 
Well, I think it's already going on with like FaceTime and everything. 
Cause you can just dial up a buddy and say, Hey, we take a look at this through, through FaceTime. 
It's like, well, you know, it looks like there's something loose here. 
Why don't you change that out and everything. 
But, but the thing is, it's like, all, all this is doing is just rehashing something that's been around forever. 
Uh, putting a name on it called, he heard somewhere that was a cool thing to sound like, I guess. 
And everybody keeps forgetting that Zuckerberg did not come up with Facebook. 
He just helped his friend like make it, right? 
And, um, and, and all these, all these tech gurus, they started out with money anyway. 
Um, like, um, Bill Gates, he had help from his parents getting Microsoft started. 
Um, and Doss and bought Doss and everything else. 
And, you know, uh, um, Steve Jobs, his family wasn't poor. 
I mean, he got to be able to spend all the money on the hobby. 
It's just, it's, it's just ridiculous that everybody thinks Zuckerberg's like this massive genius when he's not. 
Trump. 
He's just a dude who knows how to, how to, uh, sell himself. 
And that's it. 
I think that's pretty much it. 
Huh? 
I think that's pretty much it. 
I think that, that, that is a good definition of him. 
Yeah. 
It's like, it's like Trump. 
Trump is an all out idiot, but he knows how to sell himself. 
He knows how to entertain his, I guess, voters, whatever you want to call them now. 
I don't know, cultists, but, um, he knows how to keep them engaged and keep them rooting for him. 
Even when he's doing really stupid stuff. 
Um, with, uh, with all this book banning going on about, you know, cuss words and all this other stuff, which has been going on forever. 
All you got to do is look up on YouTube. 
You can see videos from the fifties where they burning records and stuff like that, or where they try to ban books from the library and all that other stuff. 
But because the news has something to do for 24 hours, it's all they're going to dwell on. 
And all it does is agitate more people. 
Yeah. 
Except it's, it's more organized now. 
It's on a bigger scale. 
And I think it's going into a really dark place. 
Yeah. 
Well, one thing that, that I've noticed is like, um, like the other night here in St. 
Louis, they had, uh, two, two women complained about their kids getting masks, uh, use of masks in school. 
Well, they got to get on TV over it. 
They were smiling real big and trying not to, you know, giggle, you know, that shallow giggle when you, when you got a little bit of attention. 
Right. 
Um, yeah, well, they were doing it to get on TV and get on Facebook and get, get the social, uh, social, social credit for it. 
And, um, you know, half these people who complain about it don't even go to these schools or have anybody go to the schools. 
And the superintendent of this very same school is retiring at the end of this year so he can run for state senator. 
So it kind of makes me wonder if he didn't find it too loud as voices in the room, pop them in front, uh, have them come up there and, you know, act all stupid and everything. 
And the news got a hold of it and just, you know, just to promote his own brand in the end. 
Yeah. 
Wouldn't be surprised. 
That's a, that's a pretty old game. 
Okay. 
And one more thing before I let you go, um, there, something happened like last week or this week, a lady went to a school ward meeting, was totally tripping out over furries. 
Over furries. 
Yeah. 
Furries. 
Somebody told her, which I'm thinking it's just her kid messing with her. 
Somebody told her cause that's how all these stories start. 
Somebody told nobody knows who these people are, but somebody told her that they were putting litter boxes in a unisex bathroom in this local school so that kids who dress up like furries can go use the bathroom with a, with a litter box. 
Oh my God. 
That's brilliant. 
Well, so brilliant. 
You would think until I, uh, uh, somebody running for Congress or a state Senator or something, I can't remember if they're running for Congress or if they were actually a state Senator or a, uh, uh, a representative, but he went on Twitter saying this must be stopped. 
Wow. 
And if people weren't getting violent over this stuff, I wouldn't be laughing. 
I mean, I'm laughing, but are people getting violent? 
Are people getting violent over everything else? 
Litter boxes in bathrooms that don't even exist? 
I mean, they're getting violent over a CRT that's not being taught in school. 
So has it reached a point where they're putting litter boxes in bathrooms now or is it still? 
I think it's a joke. 
I know it's a joke, but the people, that's how Trump started. 
That was a joke. 
Look what happened. 
There is a lack of. 
I know it is. 
It's only a joke until people start hurting other people over it. 
It's like that. 
It's like that convoy you were talking about earlier. 
It's like, um, that's like funded by, uh, somebody called unity for Canada. 
If you go to the website, it was, it was a hijacked Canada for unity.com. 
It was a hijacked Facebook. 
It's the worst site you've ever seen. 
It wasn't a hijacked Facebook account. 
You know, someone, someone's mother's Facebook account got stolen and one of the main organizers took this over and had a Facebook presence. 
And that was enough to get them legitimacy. 
In fact, the very first comment on the page is from the original owner of the account from their mother, from their daughter saying, you stole my mom's account or something crazy like that. 
And that is, that is how these things get started. 
It's, it's, it's crazy. 
Well, well, check this out, right? 
Why are there people waving Confederate flags in Canada? 
I know. 
And, and swastikas and all sorts of things. 
Yes. 
Why are there Nazis there? 
Why are these, how are these truckers who are supposed to be working, working stiff like the rest of us able to afford to miss out on work, especially with an independent contractor, right? 
Well, I have a theory about that. 
I don't think there's any work for them to miss out on. 
I mean, would you hire them? 
Come on. 
Well, I, I think what it is is they're like, um, that they, I think they're being paid by right wingers down here. 
Yeah, sure. 
I think they have a lot of sympathy and they probably were not able to work because they didn't agree with whatever temporary restrictions or whatever jobs they were doing independently or otherwise. 
They didn't agree with them and then, uh, uh, got involved with this and it just, uh, grew and became something that I don't even think they know who's in charge now. 
But the, here's the thing, right? 
I mean, GoFundMe took the, took the thing down, right? 
But check this out. 
You have to be vaccinated even across the border to go into Canada, right? 
Right. 
So those guys are pretty much vaccinated to begin with if they're coming from the States. 
I don't think they are coming from the States. 
I think they're just in Canada and they have nothing else to do. 
So they're causing mayhem and having a lot of support from, uh, the ultra right wing and in both countries that appear like local leaders, but might not be. 
Well, I think, I think it's one of those astroturf things. 
I think it's just, uh, some rich fat cats who just have nothing better to do with their time, which I think that's half of our political problem. 
Anyways, these people don't have regular jobs, um, to, um, you know, have something to do between times. 
If Marjorie Taylor Greene had an actual job while going to Congress, do you think she'd be as crazy as she is right now? 
I don't know if there's a cure for that. 
She's got too much time on her hands. 
I don't know. 
I think no matter what she was doing, she'd be crazy. 
But, um, we're going to leave it there. 
But, uh, thanks for bringing up all these points and, uh, giving us stuff to talk about. 
All right. 
Take care. 
Well, you have a good one. 
All right. 
And our phone number, 802-321-4225. 
By the way, everybody is up. 
So you guys can jump in anytime. 
I think our levels are good now. 
I don't know why, but, uh, Just don't breathe on them. 
Don't breathe. 
Yeah. 
Don't touch anything. 
Um, you guys over there in Skype land have anything to add? 
Things are, things are well covered. 
Uh, just a quick shout to, um, our listener, Pete, who on Twitter, uh, tells us he's still lolling over making everything totally awful. 
I think that might've officially stuck already, Kyle. 
Nice. 
All right. 
The world, the universe can have it. 
The metaverse can have it. 
Yeah. 
I, I pick up the damn phone, please. 
Um, I, you know, I think you should trademark that too, by the way. 
Sure. 
All right. 
Uh, we have, uh, a phone number that came up as all zeros and unknown name. 
Hello, unknown. 
Hello. 
I knew, I knew it was this person because you always come in as all zeros. 
That's correct. 
I think you called a toll free number. 
I think that's why you get, you come across as all zeros. 
That may be, or it might also be because I have my phone number blocked when I make phone calls. 
Yeah, but I don't want companies to have my phone number when I call them. 
But, but when you call a toll free number, that doesn't work. 
You can dial star six, seven as many times as you want. 
That does not, uh, carry over with A and I, which is what toll free numbers use to identify callers. 
Okay. 
But in this case, it worked. 
I don't know why, but it did. 
I'm willing to chalk it up to a display of supreme skill. 
Yeah, maybe, maybe. 
Uh, uh, caller, uh, can you tell other callers what the toll free number is for, for their benefit? 
Okay. 
I, now I have to look it up again on my calendar. 
You just called it. 
It is 833, um, 755-2600. 
That is correct. 
That is correct. 
Everyone says that is the right number. 
Thank you for, for sharing that. 
What's on your mind this week? 
Uh, the, probably the person who called you before you gave out the number, which was not me, by the way, uh, was trying to tell you that you're virtually indetectable on YouTube. 
What does that mean? 
Your, your sound is so low that I had to hunch over my speakers and hope that no, I didn't accidentally make, uh, a sound because you were so almost totally inaudible. 
I honestly do not know how to fix this because we're being given no support. 
The levels look good here. 
Guys, you're listening, Rob, Gila, um, um, Alex, you all listening to YouTube, right? 
How do we sound? 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Um, it sounds, it sounds listenable to me. 
It's maybe a touch, uh, low, but nothing that I couldn't pump up my computer volume to, uh, to, uh, boost a little more if I wanted to. 
How about I just bring up the master control and we'll see, we'll see what happens. 
All right. 
I'm gonna, I'm gonna raise it by about 20%. 
Are you all ready for this? 
I don't see people being ready. 
Okay. 
Are you ready? 
All right, here we go. 
I have to get through this tape. 
We have a, a maximum. 
Don't do that. 
Don't do that. 
Okay. 
Well, I'm a little. 
You understand that I'm listening over the phone at the moment. 
Well, yeah, that's true. 
That's true. 
So we won't expect you to comment on that, but we still sound okay. 
Right, Rob? 
Right, Alex? 
I mean, uh, okay. 
You're, we're catching up to that now. 
Oh, that's right. 
There's a delay too. 
That, that makes it a little more complicated. 
Yeah. 
And you see this error, Kyle, on the, on the screen. 
YouTube is not receiving enough video to maintain smooth streaming. 
Okay, um, it is, it is louder on video, on, on YouTube now. 
All right. 
And we're adjusting other things too. 
And, uh, boosting the volume worked. 
All right. 
Well, I didn't boost it by very much. 
So, uh, maybe we just need to do that after the show each time. 
It just raises the volume for some reason. 
But I am getting that buffering error too on YouTube. 
I don't know what that means. 
Anyway, caller, what, you must have something else to tell us. 
Yes. 
Uh, I've been concerned about all of the states getting rid of the indoor mask mandates when, even though the Omicron peak has been coming down, it's still higher than the top of the Delta peak. 
And we've got the Omicron variant, which, you know, what happens if it doesn't keep going down? 
It's, we still have problems with hospitals and ICUs. 
And they're acting as if the Omicron, uh, thing is over and we can, uh, be normal with, with COVID. 
And it's totally unrealistic. 
And if we have, uh, uh, the mask mandate, uh, indoors removed, we're just asking and begging for more cases. 
Well, the thing, the thing that concerns me is basically the CDC does not recommend this. 
And until the CDC and the States are in agreement, I'm going to have some doubts. 
Uh, you know, it's, the CDC is not a political organization. 
Apparently they're pressuring the CDC to change its position. 
Yeah. 
And I hope it's not just because there's a bunch of idiots out there raising their voices and blocking roads. 
You know, that that's not the right reason to change your policy. 
If the scientific evidence backs up your stand, okay, then, then go with it. 
But the CDC really should be agreeing with this as well. 
And if they're not, that's, that's a big red flag as far as I'm concerned. 
But apparently they're trying to put political pressure on the CDC to remove the, uh, the CDC's support for the remaining masked indoors. 
Yeah. 
Well, you don't solve a pandemic politically. 
There's no politics involved. 
So if that's, if that's their rationale, they're barking up the wrong tree. 
Yeah. 
Well, I'm, I'm very worried. 
My, my cousin just died of COVID unvaccinated. 
Sorry to hear that. 
Trumpist. 
Didn't believe it was a real problem. 
Dead. 
Yeah. 
And we hear stories like that all the time, all the time. 
It's, it's, you know, I don't know what else we can possibly be doing if people refuse to listen, people refuse to do the right thing. 
More mandates. 
That's what we can do. 
But, but, you know, we're in a situation now where we've seen a million people die and somehow Republicans are still saying, see, this proves that we were right all along and people are believing it. 
You know, when, when, when, when the, um, the mandates do stop, they're going to be claiming victory saying it's because we put pressure on the Democrats. 
They wanted us to live in a nanny state forever. 
And no matter what happens, they're going to spin it. 
So it seems like they were right all along, despite the fact that they literally killed hundreds of thousands of people with their ignorance. 
And, you know, I don't know how we get past that. 
I honestly don't know because people are so easily misled. 
Did you say easily or evilly? 
I said easily and I don't attribute evil to ignorance, but, uh, it's the result. 
It's the end result. 
Well, some of it isn't ignorance. 
True. 
Uh, but I think amongst most of the followers, it's this blind trust, which to me is the same thing as, as ignorance. 
Yeah. 
But the people they're following are not so ignorant. 
No, I agree. 
They know exactly what they're doing and they've also taken care of themselves. 
They've gotten vaccinated and, uh, they've taken all the precautions. 
So, yeah. 
And speaking of living with COVID, uh, I saw something in Scientific American that, uh, Syrian hamsters are also able to get COVID and give it to human beings. 
Syrian hamsters? 
Yes, but not dwarf hamsters. 
Wait, wait, wait. 
Hold on. 
Are these hamsters in Syria or are these some kind of hamster that are called Syrian hamsters? 
They're called Syrian hamsters. 
They're sold as pets. 
Okay. 
I was wondering who would have time to be experimenting on hamsters in Syria with all the craziness? 
No. 
Okay. 
All right. 
No, this was in, in China, I think, uh, that, uh, people were infected out of blue and nobody knew where it had come from. 
And it had come from the Syrian hamsters in a pet store. 
Well, I hate to put the blame on hamsters ever, but, um, yeah, you know, I don't know what to say to that. 
I honestly don't. 
Well, what I'm saying is, uh, when there are other species than humans, that, uh, something can be a reservoir in, you know, we, we can't just get rid of it. 
They're in mink. 
Right. 
And they're in Syrian hamsters. 
And we're not going to be able to, I mean, even if everybody got vaccinated, we wouldn't be able to totally get rid of them. 
Yeah. 
And, and, and I think we're reaching the stage where we realize, well, we're not going to totally get rid of, uh, of, of the virus, but if we can make it as, um, uh, the, the effects less devastating, I think most of us can live with that. 
And, and that is, um, well, not, you say most of us, but there are people like me who are trapped in my apartment for the rest of my life. 
Well, I mean, you know, there are always going to be risks for people who are compromised in one way or another. 
It's never going to be 100% safe on any level. 
Uh, so I don't think it's, uh, it's wise to wait for that day to come because that day won't come. 
There's always going to be some, some amount of risk. 
The important thing is to take all the precautions that you can. 
And then I said, China, I should have said Hong Kong. 
Okay. 
Hong Kong is part of China, but I'm not gonna get into that right now. 
Yeah. 
But you know, there's a, the Hong Kong is a little bit different. 
Yes, but they are, they are in China. 
I mean, you know, that's just, that's how, that's how it worked out. 
Anything else? 
Yeah. 
Guys, feel free to jump in any time Skype people. 
I mean, for God's sake, why? 
Yeah, go ahead. 
I don't think that like strict mandates everywhere is really the way to go, but I do think that, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of caution that's necessary. 
So the, but the disconnect in, in, um, um, how to go through various stages of, of, um, what that is, you know, what that will be or what we're going towards, especially from, uh, health, uh, national health and, and, and, and other people in charge of that kind of messaging and, and the right kind of guidance and who and all that, um, you know, that, that's not really evidence. 
So it seems kind of in flux, but, uh, longterm, I mean, you see what's the kind of, uh, uh, uh, resistance towards it. 
You say mandate now, and that word is just, it's gone. 
You, you can't use the word mandate and it's just, it's got this like negative overtone because of how polarized and, and upset people have become over it. 
Um, I don't know what the answer is. 
I think that it's, uh, it's, it's, it's going to be something that, that, you know, I don't know. 
I keep failing COVID tests. 
What do you mean? 
Failing COVID tests? 
I've tried E, but I, I, I don't pass them for whatever reason. 
No, no, you're supposed to get negative. 
Oh, that's, that's no, it's not considered success. 
If you're positive, no, no, no. 
You're doing the right thing. 
I, I, I thought that was understood. 
Um, but, but based on, you know, how I've personally, you know, assessed my risk and that's kind of where they're leaving people right now. 
That's what I've gotten from the, the news about this this week. 
It's just like, yeah, figure it out for yourself, you know, and take some tests and make sure you're boosted and have a good summer. 
This was inevitable. 
It happens when people get overly tired of the same thing over and over again, but we have to maintain our intelligence here. 
How can you be tired of trying to save your life from getting killed? 
Well, you know, if it's as exciting as that sounds every single day, but, uh, when you, when you basically are just staying inside and not doing much outside and after a while you get bored and you start saying, okay, you know what, maybe I'm going to, I'm going to take a chance. 
And, uh, it's not advisable when, when things are dangerous, but when, when the numbers start going down, more people are going to do things like that. 
Or replace that board with complacent. 
Cause if we'd say, oh, this is a, you know, crisis or it's, it's a mild crisis and stay vigilant and you got to do all this stuff. 
People are going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Right. 
You have to be, you have to show change. 
I think in this, in this situation and, uh, and, uh, a level of trust that, you know what? 
Adults are going to assess and make adult decisions for themselves and everybody around them. 
As we've been saying ad nauseum. 
Rob, I didn't realize you were raising your hand, your hand like merges into the pattern on your shirt. 
So I thought that was part of your shirt. 
Go ahead. 
He's wearing a hope shirt. 
It is a hope shirt. 
Yes. 
Um, no, I talking of mandates and stuff is just making me so very tired because we are all now on our third year, uh, looking at our third year of dealing with this as a, as a greater society. 
And it feels like we just keep failing. 
We keep failing at doing what we should have done since the beginning. 
And, uh, you know, talking of adult decisions, I for one am on record as saying like, even post COVID, whenever that actually happens, you know, if we're told someday that, uh, COVID is no more and we did it everyone and good job, everybody, I will still be masking. 
I will still be, uh, you know, putting on my mask when I go into a crowd or, or things like that because I've come to really appreciate the other benefits of it, which is, you know, I, I'm not getting as many regular ass, uh, non-plague colds or flus. 
Uh, you know, allergy season is much nicer, things like that. 
I'm, I've really come to appreciate why other countries have been, uh, have been wearing face masks since long before COVID was a thing. 
Um, and I think, I think it's a, I think it's a permanent change for me. 
Rob, hold on a second. 
It screws up the facial recognition software. 
You really have to do your part. 
I'm into that too. 
Although, although now, uh, facial recognition software is, uh, starting to find ways around that, just using the area around your eyes. 
There, there was a, one our two stories this past week about it. 
Damn it. 
Really? 
Yeah. 
The evil adapts. 
The iPhones can now, you can choose whether you're wearing a mask or not. 
Another reason to get an iPhone. 
Great. 
Wow. 
I don't know if there's, they don't have the exclusive on that, I'm sure, but they, uh, I don't understand what you just said on iPhone. 
You can choose whether you're wearing a mask to unlock it. 
Yes. 
If you use the facial recognition unlocking feature on your iPhone where it just, you pointed at yourself and it recognizes your face. 
With a mask on. 
Yes. 
It's, it's now, it's now been adapted to recognize its user with a mask on and you can, you can control your iPhone and decide whether you wanted to identify your face with a mask on or not. 
I believe that's where things are right now, but, um, you know, it's, it's only, it's only going to get, uh, less and less, uh, it's, it's only going to become less and less, uh, easy to facial recognition with, with your mask. 
You hear the sensation of a million minds being blown just now. 
It's, it's gone, but I just, they're going to add an option for if you have a hand covering your mouth. 
Okay. 
Can we move on to something a little bit more cheery? 
Cause this is really getting me down and, uh, let's just keep doing what we're doing. 
Oh, it's, it's cutting you down. 
Yeah, it is. 
People are very inconsiderate. 
That's always talking about coronavirus everywhere. 
I look. 
Yeah. 
You've got coronavirus fatigue. 
Yeah. 
No, it's, it's talking about coronavirus fatigue mostly, but yes. 
Uh, Alex, did you have something? 
Yes. 
You know, there, there was that quote that this discussion reminds me of, um, if you want an image of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face. 
Uh-huh. 
George Orwell said that, right? 
Yeah. 
It was something like that. 
I'm sure I didn't get that down perfectly, but. 
1984. 
Yeah. 
He was in a really bad mood when he wrote that. 
Okay. 
It's not necessarily the future. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Um, down and out London in Paris is also cheery. 
Yeah. 
It's always down and out and, you know, oppression and boot stomping. 
Anyway, uh, any, any final words, caller? 
Cause we're going to move on. 
Uh, just reiterating what I said, we're, we're above the top of the Delta wave, even though we're coming now and people are acting as if it's time to act as if COVID was normal. 
That's just totally not realistic. 
It's wishful thinking and it's going to lead to more illness and death. 
Yeah, I agree. 
I agree. 
And, uh, maybe when that day comes that, no, they won't, they won't, they won't realize it then either. 
I don't know what the answer is. 
You know, I'm everybody who's foolish dying. 
Uh, it doesn't work that way. 
Of course. 
Yeah. 
I don't know, but I'm open to, uh, uh, to theory as to what, what the right thing to do is and what the right, um, results will be. 
But, um, I don't know. 
We'll just have to, we'll have to, uh, observe, I suppose. 
Trump, Trump is now for, um, for vaccinations because all of his voters are dying. 
Yeah. 
Maybe, uh, that'll, that'll wise some people up. 
Um, well, they're, they're angry at Trump. 
They're angry at everybody. 
Anyway, thanks for the call. 
Stay healthy. 
And, uh, we'll talk to you again. 
Bye bye. 
Take care. 
That was rather a hard click there. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
Our phone number is 802-321-4225. 
We don't have very much time left because boy, we've been at this a while. 
Uh, you guys have anything to try? 
Your mic is on. 
Everything seems to be working now. 
We don't know why because we didn't really change anything. 
This is just so, um, annoying. 
I hear the distant bell of a phone. 
Uh, go ahead. 
Speak up. 
You got to turn me down. 
Turn down your radio and we're doing good, but I hear myself and I don't want to hear myself. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
I just paused the thing. 
I just paused the thing. 
Yeah. 
I'm so glad I reached you guys. 
I had taken a nap. 
Um, I wish I had done that, but I got a problem. 
Go ahead. 
A few years ago, my step parents, and this is why I say your parents, parents know the best man. 
And it's always going to take their advice. 
They got me those, um, they got me these, um, these, these little buy, these binders to put your, your bank cards in. 
Right. 
Okay. 
And she said, there's some scam going around with people like they'll bump into you and they have some kind of device in their pocket that can read cards and they can, they can do all types of fraudulent activity. 
Yeah. 
At first I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't, I thought it was kind of ridiculous at first, but I was using the binders they bought me for like, I think for like a few months and I stopped using them because I forgot to keep putting my cards in them because you have to condition yourself to put them in the binders and then inside your wallet. 
It was kind of, it was such a nuisance. 
Okay. 
I believe this is, um, correct me if I'm wrong. 
This is what, um, the new Omni system and the New York city subway and buses are using where basically you have to pretty much, um, uh, come very, very close to the contactless device. 
You can't just walk through and have everything, uh, get scanned. 
Um, it's crazy. 
It's for contactless payments. 
Yeah. 
The, the thing you're saying, yeah, ideally you have to be close and, and really close and, and then otherwise it's safe and it won't scan. 
But guess what? 
You can build antennas with higher gain. 
You can build whatever you want that, uh, can kind of, uh, uh, be conformed to the specification, but do it at a, maybe double the distance. 
So it's maybe I'm not on top of it with my wallet, but maybe I'm 12, 24 inches away and it works. 
Okay. 
You can amplify these things. 
But if you do that, but I wasn't, I wasn't finished. 
I'm saying what, what happened because I think in, um, in, what was it? 
In early January, someone had hacked and someone had took funds from my, um, unemployment benefit card. 
They use key bank and I don't know how what happened. 
I, you know, I'm single. 
I have no dependents. 
I don't let no one use my card. 
My card, my, my, my, my, I use, I'm the only one who uses my card is nobody else. 
Someone took a total of $2,000 from my unemployment benefit card. 
I got the money back. 
I put the, I, I did a, did a claim and they, they, they gave me the provisional credit and I said, they gave me a new card and I said, fine, I'm going to be very careful. 
I'm going to, I'm going to, um, cause you know, I think in Jersey, you know, you can't pump your own gas. 
I think in Jersey, when I was in Jersey a few times, I gave these guys, these guys like an idiot, my card to pay for the gas. 
So I stopped doing that. 
Yeah. 
And you see by, by, uh, by them having physical access to your card, they get the three digit code on the, on the back and like just bumping into somebody, they don't get the three digit code. 
So the only thing they could do with that, um, uh, compromise is another contactless type, uh, payment there, but something like this, where they actually take money out of an account that requires a little bit more. 
And it happened, it happened again on Monday. 
They took money from my money network card because my job, but like these jobs now, some of them have the employees that give you payroll cards to that employer. 
I've been with them for almost 10 years and they've, they've had, we've had payroll cards and they changed banks like three times. 
So they, they using money network before they had bank of America. 
And I don't know why they left bank of America to go to, to, to use our Meta bank is Meta bank to do with all those prepaid cards and that they're not really secure. 
And then I wanted to take money out on Monday is that to get my, I had to get a rim replaced on my car and that the ATM said insufficient funds. 
Wow. 
And they took, they took, um, a total of 1000 change and they said, and they said that somebody has a car, you know, somebody with a card reader got my information. 
Don't know how because they don't have my card, my bank card. 
And they took the money out at the bank of America in Ridgewood. 
That's like the borderline Queens and Brooklyn. 
They did again, another bank of America in Chinatown, Hester street. 
And another, it is another withdrawal from a restaurant called Carbone. 
I think that that's, that's somewhere in Manhattan. 
That's Italy, I think, right? 
Yeah. 
It's a good place. 
Yeah. 
So I don't know who, I don't know if it's someone that I know that has something against me. 
I don't know if it's someone that that's going around doing this type of scam, but that never happened. 
That never happened. 
I had bank cards for years that I know that my accounts never got hacked, but then I realized we live in a modernized world and things are getting more and more advanced now. 
And I think it's easier for hackers to do what they can do now because technology is becoming more advanced. 
You can access stuff that, you know, years ago the government had, you know, you can get card readers. 
You can order them from all these websites and stuff. 
Um, but those MCR card readers, because I know about this stuff because I, you know, I was, I did four years from Grand Larson, you know, okay. 
I know about, I know about this stuff, man, but I think that I've been, you know, I've, I've worked, I've been working, I've been legit like the past 10 years. 
Yeah. 
There's a certain blindness to, um, to some of the tools. 
I think that's why we like to talk about this stuff. 
Like, uh, in the magazine at the conference and on this show, it's always like, Hey, somebody's been, been, uh, playing with this thing. 
They figured out a way to do something like that. 
And, and, and yeah, that, um, that isn't the way we talk institutionally or the, the, the education system that people aren't, um, sharing this knowledge in, in open venues. 
That's, uh, why we, we like are so passionate about being here and, and, and having this discussion now, cause that's how it gets out there. 
That's how people get hardened to this. 
They, they go through, they, they share techniques to, uh, to avoid this kind of stuff. 
I would just go through and, and reassess everything. 
I mean, it's unfortunate and, and you're right to kind of retrace your steps, but in a more like digital sense, like go back through your payments. 
I really, I really doubt it. 
Somebody, you know, though, because this kind of thing happens all the time to people all over the place. 
The important thing is, Oh yeah, sure. 
Uh, but you're on top of it. 
You notice they count on people not noticing, but you know, in the end they get what they, what they paid for or what they, what they cheated and, and use your card for, uh, you know, if they went to an ATM, they're on camera, they're on camera. 
So they, uh, you know, that, that's not very smart. 
Um, but, uh, the important thing is that you get your money back when, when it's banks, you're always covered credit cards. 
You're covered for that kind of thing as well. 
I've had this happen to me. 
I remember once, you know, this was, this was a great story. 
Uh, right after one of our conferences at hotel Pennsylvania, there was one of the cars I was using there. 
In fact, had a charge on it. 
And I'm not kidding. 
Literally the charge was for exactly $2,600. 
All right. 
And somebody used my card to buy a dog up in the Bronx. 
I don't know how they managed to make the amount exactly 2,600. 
And, but I didn't have to pay for a dog. 
Let's put it that way. 
I was able to get that, but, but the dog did, uh, get sold to somebody. 
Um, so, um, yeah, the other time, remember that time I wound up buying a train set for some woman's kid, it was like $300. 
Yeah. 
But that one, that one, I didn't notice for a year because I didn't, I didn't, uh, itemize my credit card statements. 
So I couldn't, I could, yeah. 
Chase claimed they don't keep records beyond a few months, which I don't believe for a second, but I couldn't get a refund on that because I wasn't paying attention. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
These days you got to be extremely careful. 
And I was just telling myself after that happened because one of my step parents, um, you know, passed away last, last February because of cancer. 
And, um, they said, I was saying, I was telling, thank you. 
I was, and I was telling myself, my God, that the parents know best. 
And I wasn't, I wasn't using that. 
I wasn't, I, I, I have two, they gave me two binders. 
I started using, I put them right back in my wallet. 
And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, those cards are going inside the binders. 
Right. 
Right. 
That protects you from, that protects you from one compromising situation. 
There are so many others, uh, times where, where it doesn't even matter. 
They get a list of card numbers from the credit card company because they have a database that got compromised. 
So, you know, it will happen regardless of how much security that you implement. 
You might be able to save yourself from certain, uh, instances, but it's, it's, it's always going to be a risk. 
Always. 
Okay. 
Just make it. 
And thank God, thank God that the provisional credits, the, the personal credit, um, um, procedures, man, they're wonderful. 
I got the funds back right away with bank, with, um, with key bank, it took about 13 days, but with this bank here, they put it right back on. 
I just got to wait for the new car to come in. 
Just remember, they're not doing you a favor. 
They have to do that because it's, it's most likely a security issue on their end and you shouldn't have to cover that. 
In fact, you shouldn't be inconvenienced for the amount of time you don't have access to it. 
You know, it's, it's, it's, it's really annoying. 
Yeah. 
Thanks guys. 
I'll thank God. 
Thank God. 
All right. 
Well, good luck to you. 
I think I'll reach you. 
All right. 
Take care. 
All right. 
Bye-bye. 
Thanks for that story. 
That was, uh, that was something. 
None of us are safe. 
And you guys out there in Skype line, any credit card nightmares or bank story nightmares? 
Uh, not, not for a long time. 
Uh, I, I think the last time I had credit card fraud, uh, done with one of my cards was, uh, maybe 2016 ish. 
Yeah. 
It was 2016. 
Yeah. 
Um, but it, but it's been ages and that was not a contactless card at the time. 
We'll take one more call. 
This is the last call we're taking. 
So just anybody else out there. 
Um, okay. 
I don't know who it is. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the hook. 
Go ahead. 
Greetings from Beijing Olympic bubble. 
You're in the Beijing Olympic bubble. 
Yes, I am. 
Okay. 
I, you know, I don't want to doubt you, but is there any way you can prove that? 
I sent you a message last night on a Twitter direct message. 
I'm the school board member who called about a month ago. 
Okay. 
Well, first of all, are you, are you, my day job is, uh, are you in the Olympics for a media company? 
Oh, so you're, no, no, I'm, uh, I'm with the media company. 
Okay. 
He's probably covering the, all right. 
So, so can you describe what it's like over there right now? 
Yeah, it's, uh, it's pretty intense. 
Um, I've been here since the, uh, 23rd of January and, uh, sorry, I'm talking to a mask and, um, you know, we've, uh, we're, we're in serious lockdown. 
Everybody who's living and working within here is staying in the bubble. 
If you're serving food, you're staying on site. 
If you're in a media, uh, contingent, you're getting on a bus, you go through a security perimeter on the way out, get into your bus and it delivers you to where you're going. 
Um, we're at the main media center, which is where the press is. 
We're about, you know, like five New York city blocks away from some of the venues, but we can't walk there. 
We have to get on buses or use media taxis or there is a bullet train, which is amazing. 
Um, I've got some, uh, time-lapse photography on that one. 
It's, it's, it's pretty cool. 
Uh, but the security measures we're taking on our end is it's no joke. 
And, uh, has it paid off? 
Have people been staying negative test wise? 
Oh yeah. 
I mean, uh, in our group, yes. 
Uh, one of our, uh, one of our, uh, photographer support technicians, um, uh, with a close contact on his flight and, um, you know, he found out about, uh, 20 hours after he landed and had to spend the next day, uh, in semi-isolation, had to spend the next five days in, uh, in, you know, two meters around him. 
He had to eat alone. 
Uh, it's, it's been, it's, it's been okay considering, um, I've got to see a couple of events, uh, but yeah, we're definitely using burner phones, burner laptops. 
Uh, one of the funny things is when we arrived, the local organizing committee offered us, uh, free complimentary, uh, USB-C to ethernet adapters and, uh, USB-A, the USB-C adapters, which we promptly, you know, thanked them for and locked up. 
Um, so, uh, yeah. 
And then, uh, during opening ceremonies, there were some network issues where the entire stadium went out and people were walking around handing out USB adapters. 
And, uh, one of our, one of our representatives took one, uh, I took it apart. 
It looks okay. 
You know, it's, uh, it's got all the right stuff. 
There's definitely a flash in all of them, uh, because that's how they deliver the plug and play adapter, uh, drivers. 
Wow. 
That's interesting. 
Interesting. 
Yeah. 
I could send you some photos on, uh, you know, direct message. 
I don't want to, you know, out who I am publicly, but I'm happy to do it. 
You know, I think, I think this would make a great article if you, if you want to write an anonymous article for us too, just on, on the things you've noticed in the technology. 
I'd love to. 
That would be awesome. 
I think our readers would love that. 
Okay. 
Yeah. 
That would definitely be great. 
The, the coverage, uh, we've been watching, uh, both, uh, us a little bit and, and, uh, Canadian broadcasts. 
And it's, it's been pretty outstanding, uh, what we have seen, not, not, uh, glued to it, but definitely, uh, catching a couple events. 
And I'm sure it's been, uh, just, uh, really fascinating just to, to physically be there since so few people actually are experiencing at this time. 
Yeah, I did Tokyo as well. 
And I actually, uh, that was during, it's basically the same exact time here because of daylight savings and all that. 
And I did try calling, um, I don't even know if you were doing overtime at the time, but I remember wanting to have called because even then, uh, some of the security protocols are pretty interesting. 
Uh, but it's got nothing on, on these games. 
Um, but yeah, the, uh, the coverage has been crazy. 
Uh, there was a story that broke overnight, uh, regarding, uh, the Russian, uh, uh, figure skating team and, and maybe some doping, uh, either recreational doping or performance doping. 
And we're not sure, uh, but we've been monitoring all of this. 
Wow. 
Non-performance enhancing doping. 
It just never ends, does it? 
It's always a dope. 
Well, it may be weed. 
Uh, you know, all right. 
Well, you know, weed, but in American, weed in China is no laughing matter. 
Oh, absolutely. 
And, and I, you know, that was the thing I, I thought, you know, if it's not, uh, performance enhancing, they may have issues with the local authorities here. 
Yeah. 
Um, you know, like all of the rest of us have decided to forego weed for the time that we're in the country. 
You would think the athletes could do so as well. 
Um, you know, uh, an American athlete had the same, uh, months before the games had tested for marijuana and wasn't allowed to, uh, participate. 
So, uh, this, this story is breaking. 
We're going to see where it goes. 
Well, I'd, I'd be concerned they weren't allowed to leave because it can be a pretty serious. 
Right. 
So, uh, that's something to worry about. 
Right. 
How are, how are people accepting the restrictions and, and the guidelines and all that? 
Is there any pushback? 
You know, it's funny. 
I haven't seen anyone throw a mask at somebody or scream about a face diaper, uh, since I've been here. 
Um, you know, Swiss government action seems to put those things to rest. 
Yeah. 
Authoritarian rule does, uh, it does kind of quell that sort of thing, but, um, wow. 
Yeah. 
Um, and you know, all of us are vaccinated. 
I don't think you could be here without being vaccinated. 
So, you know, that weeds out a lot of people. 
Were you able to, um, experience any, is there any, uh, like good food? 
If there's some kind of culture there in, even though you're within the bubble, you're able to like have a good meal and share, share some downtime and stuff too. 
So I do feel like we're missing out on a lot of authenticity. 
Um, but here at the media center, and this is maybe some of the stuff I'll send you, we have, uh, robots cooking and serving food to us robots in one of the cafeteria, in the cafeteria. 
Uh, they're calling it, uh, you know, it's, um, noodles from the ceiling, I think. 
Yeah. 
It's like a crane that lowers. 
Wow. 
Yeah. 
There's a crane that lowers. 
There's, uh, there's a track in the ceiling with QR codes spaced out every like foot or less. 
And then robotic drones that basically pick up the food from the cooking machine and then drive to your location, uh, loaded onto the crane. 
The crane lowers, uh, as the crane's about to lower a hologram prints onto your table where you're sitting, uh, basically announcing the arrival and then you're able to receive your food and you can say extra spicy, right? 
Uh, no, uh, they have chili sauces on the side. 
Okay. 
All right. 
Um, I will say the, the, uh, the robot cooked food may be some of the more tasty, uh, meals, but that's because it's cooked to order. 
Whereas, you know, if you go through some of the places where there's humans cooking and stationed and ready to hand you your food, it may have been sitting there, uh, cooked for a while. 
Um, all in all, not bad, uh, compared to Tokyo, I'd say we have more choice as they're varying the menu every day. 
Whereas in the Tokyo, uh, media center cafeterias, we basically had the same options almost every day as two different restaurants. 
People were like running off to convenience stores to just get, uh, uh, like lunch boxes and, and snacks because they wanted convenience stores in Tokyo are a whole other world on their own, having fresh prepared food every single day, um, that they, they, they stock it. 
It's, it's a really cheap way to eat pretty well. 
Um, also in Tokyo, after my 14 days of quarantine, which I was allowed to go to work walking each day, cause I was less than a mile from the media center. 
Um, on day 15, they handed me a transit card and basically said, uh, you can go anywhere on this transit map. 
Um, you know, keep social distance. 
And, uh, that was wonderful. 
Uh, here we don't have that. 
Um, I definitely feel like if I had to say I've been to China, yes, I've been to China, but I haven't really seen China, uh, except from the windows of the bullet train, uh, which I, the fact that we don't have these things in our country just drives me nuts. 
Yeah. 
They probably built it two weeks before the event, and I probably just put it together. 
Honestly, it looks brand new. 
Um, and it, it, you don't feel a sink, you know, like you just hear, you hear a little wish and you're moving at a hundred, uh, 200 and, uh, 17 miles an hour is the highest I saw us going. 
But I'll be honest, every time I've gotten on this thing, I've passed out. 
Hang on. 
Wait a minute. 
Hold on a second. 
It's 217 miles an hour or kilometers an hour? 
Yeah, it was 350 kilometers per hour. 
Oh my God. 
Close like 348. 
Oh my God. 
Wow. 
And, and, and you say you passed out? 
Yeah, I honestly, like this thing loves, loves me to sleep. 
You know, we're mostly on it by ourselves when you get on there. 
I see. 
Okay. 
Now that more of the media has arrived, there's more people on the trains, but, uh, a coworker and I were the only ones in the car the two times we went up there. 
It's so good that you're telling the story though. 
Please share, share, share. 
Like that's, that's how, uh, you know, experiencing other forms of infrastructure. 
That's when people get, they bring back the story and they, they get other people excited about it and say like, why not? 
You know, this is worth having. 
You know, but the minute I say the words, they have this in China, I'm going to turn off 33% of the population. 
That's true. 
There is a bit of that. 
On that note, uh, are you, I assume you're American. 
Are you received well over there? 
Yeah. 
Um, so they have volunteers. 
I'll show you some pictures. 
Um, they're from, you know, all over China. 
Uh, they speak amazing English. 
They, they all look like kids, but that's because I'm in my forties now, you know, they're in university or just after, um, they, so there's pin trading is very popular here. 
Uh, so I've gotten into that and it's, it's kind of a goodwill, uh, situation. 
Um, but yeah, we've been really well received by the, by the staff here. 
You know, I'm sure, you know, just like in America, there's, you know, there's things said, um, but you wouldn't know it by being here, uh, and working with these people. 
They're, uh, they're some of the most friendly people I've come across in my life. 
Uh-huh. 
And do you feel they're, they're doing an effective job keeping people safe? 
I, I think, you know, it may be even, you know, I don't want to say heavy handed cause it is, uh, but, uh, you know, it's, it's crazy that COVID still finds a way, you know, I feel like Jeff Goldblum's here, you know, life finds a way and, uh, you know, COVID finds a way. 
It's, it's, uh, eight Russian athletes on the hockey team have tested positive. 
There was a game where they played the Canadians with masks on for two periods. 
Yeah. 
And then in the third, they decided not to wear it. 
And the next day they announced eight of their members were sick. 
That was, that was the, uh, you know, that was the game with the delayed start, right? 
I didn't hear about this. 
Correct. 
Yes. 
And it was delayed because of, uh, COVID positive tests that weren't shared from the Russian to the Canadian teams prior to the game, Canada protested and demanded masks and, uh, they had masks for the first two periods. 
And then I don't know what happened at the third. 
Wow. 
But do you see the results? 
Interesting. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Um, but you know, in the media, I can't tell you of any cases that I'm aware of that have happened here. 
I know of people who have arrived in country from other organizations who tested positive at the airport and then were taken out of their hotels. 
I hear the quarantine hotels are not great. 
Um, you know, where you're delivered boxed meals. 
Uh, I know for the, uh, the athletes who are in quarantine, they're not getting enough calories, uh, to keep up their training regimen when they're in quarantine. 
Well, how does that work? 
If they're an athlete and they've tested positive, are they still going to be able to compete? 
How, how is, how would they be able to? 
Early on? 
Yes. 
Uh, I think as we get to this point, it's probably, if you test positive today, you're probably done. 
Um, but you need, it's seven days plus two, uh, negative tests in a row. 
Okay. 
Um, following that last day, uh, to get out. 
And so I think one U S athlete actually just made it out of quarantine yesterday and is expected to compete. 
I see. 
Okay. 
I can't remember her name right now. 
Um, but, uh, that, that was a story I saw last night. 
And have you had to have, uh, had tests, uh, Don or just, uh, just proof that you were vaccinated? 
Yeah, daily. 
Um, they're doing throat swabs. 
Uh, they do them at our hotels. 
So a lot of us get them done on the, uh, on the way into the bus in the morning. 
Uh-huh. 
Shuttle buses are the way to get around. 
And are they particularly invasive? 
And then at most of the venues. 
Are they, are they particularly invasive or unpleasant? 
No, it's a, it's a, there's a person in my case, there's a person in a booth. 
Uh, I go to the first booth, they scan the vial, they scan the, uh, the, uh, barcode on my ID. 
And then they scan the vial again, hand me the vial. 
I go to the second booth and, uh, they take a swab, they swab your throat and, you know, there's varying depth. 
Uh, some of us have bad gag reflexes and it's not pretty, but, uh, I haven't, I haven't gotten sick yet from it. 
Um, in the airport, I will say it was the most invasive COVID test I've ever had, uh, up the nose. 
Uh, I swear I felt it behind my eyeball. 
Um, and then, uh, second one in the throat. 
Wow. 
Yeah. 
You see the ones we take here, they just do a little swab in your nose and you're done. 
And, uh, that's, that's it. 
This is a heavy, a major thing. 
Yeah. 
I'm looking forward to somebody telling me how, how oppressive, uh, our, our country is. 
And I, you know, like I, I was on a, I don't want to say too much, but I was in a school board meeting and I was called a communist then, uh, and now having experienced it firsthand, which I don't really think I have because I see a lot of capitalism here. 
Oh yeah. 
It's a very capitalistic society. 
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
I, I passed two Starbucks on my way in every day and I can't have any, um, you know, and, and the coffee in our hotel is actually very good, but it's in a very small cup and I need a lot more caffeine. 
They have, they have KFC there with table service. 
I've seen it. 
They have KFC at the, uh, at the mountain venue. 
Uh, we went up twice. 
They didn't have it there. 
They also had a pizza hut, but the pizza hut apparently didn't pay the Olympic gods. 
So it was converted into a restaurant called the Blue Book. 
Interesting. 
Wow. 
Well, all these observations are priceless. 
So please make as many of them as you can, because this is truly a fascinating piece of history you're living through. 
Yeah. 
I'm, I'm loving it. 
Um, you know, 30 days and change away from my family. 
Um, but I, I think the, uh, when I'm bringing home, uh, hopefully it's not COVID, uh, but what I'm bringing home is, uh, the experience of a lifetime. 
And I've actually gotten to do it twice this in, in less than a year, uh, with the Olympics. 
And, uh, I find myself really fortunate. 
Maybe, maybe later this year, World Cup, huh? 
Why not? 
Yeah. 
I, uh, I don't think so. 
Not for me. 
Um, but I am looking forward to, uh, going to Hope. 
Uh, I haven't been to Hope since, uh, the fifth Hope, uh, because I had a child the following year and, uh, her birthday is always Hope weekend. 
So. 
And now she wants to come to Hope, right? 
Uh, yeah. 
Hopefully she wants to go into engineering. 
So that'd be nice. 
That'd be awesome. 
Wow. 
And, you know, St. 
John's is right next to where my mom used to live in Fresh Meadows. 
So. 
Oh, that's, that's amazing. 
I'm familiar with the area. 
Okay. 
That's, that's, that's, you can, you can tell our listeners that, uh, it's a, it's a pretty cool place to be. 
Yeah, it's not bad. 
Uh, it's easy to get to. 
Right off, uh, was, uh, I guess right off the Long Island Expressway, right? 
And the Parkway and, and everything really. 
And the Parkway and the, uh, the Cross County, I forget what it is. 
Cross Island, Cross Island, the airport, everything is right there. 
So it's, it's pretty amazing. 
Guys in, in Skype land, did you have any questions for our caller from Beijing? 
They, they look puzzled. 
Anybody? 
Um, I'm just, uh, I'm just wondering, uh, you know, yeah, when you, when you get out of there, uh, uh, we definitely want to see an article, uh, for 2600 Magazine on what your whole experience was like and the security stuff you went through and everything. 
Cause I, I am particularly fascinated by that. 
Yeah, most definitely. 
And don't worry, don't worry about length. 
Because we'll, we'll make pages for this. 
Okay. 
Thank you very much. 
Sure. 
All right. 
We look forward to seeing you at Hope then. 
And, uh, stay safe over there. 
Observe as much as you possibly can. 
And, you know, it's, um... 
We appreciate your work too. 
Yeah, definitely. 
Definitely. 
Well, thank you. 
Yeah, I've got a new appreciation for, uh, I mean, I've been, I've been working with a media company for a very long time now. 
Um, but this is my first, second time being deployed with them. 
And this honestly kind of almost feels like a wartime deployment, uh, in the way we're locked down and the security measures we're taking and, and all that. 
Not that, you know, we're, we're hostile, but you know, there's, there's unseen hostility everywhere, you know? 
And I, I mean, we kind of go through life that way now when you're, when you're in InfoSec. 
Um, but, uh, you know, here we are. 
Wow. 
What, what time is it over there now? 
It's like 1030 in the morning, I think? 
It is 1031 exactly. 
Yes. 
Okay. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
So you have a whole day ahead of you. 
So, uh, we'll let you get to that. 
Yeah. 
They're making an announcement now. 
You can hear them. 
Yeah. 
I, I, I heard a voice. 
Yeah. 
They're announcing a conference for the IOC. 
They, they may be announcing the, uh, the, the, uh, the figure skating, uh, results. 
Is there, is there a particular event you'll be covering today? 
Because we can, we can watch it later. 
Um, I, well, I was hoping to get to the, uh, snowboard, uh, freestyle at the, uh, big sky thing where everybody thinks it's nuclear, uh, towers, cooling towers, but really it's just a retired, uh, ironworks plant. 
I saw that. 
I thought it was a nuclear tower. 
It's not a nuclear tower. 
Okay. 
No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I got, I got video and pictures there too. 
It's, uh, it's a bizarre, um, site because, you know, it, it looks like something out of, you know, Soviet days, giant ironworks buildings and pipes and these cooling towers that look like they're nuclear, but they're not. 
Wow. 
Yeah. 
Apparently they were decommissioned for another Olympic event. 
Uh, I think Pyeongchang in 2018, they were decommissioned prior to that to help with air quality and stuff, but that's Korea, right? 
Pyeongchang. 
Yeah, that's Korea. 
Okay. 
Okay. 
What other games was it? 
It may have been, maybe it was a, well, they were here in 08, um, in Beijing in 08, they did the air quality. 
Uh, they did big air quality crackdowns here. 
Um, being here in the winter, I think we've got, wait, what was in 08? 
What was it? 
What was in 08? 
Beijing. 
The last time it was in Beijing. 
You're saying the Olympics were in? 
Yeah, it was summer games. 
Yeah, summer games. 
Oh, summer games in Beijing. 
He's at winter games in Beijing. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
Yes. 
Yeah. 
All right. 
Listen, thanks so much for taking the time. 
It's over a decade later. 
Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us and share all this. 
It's been really fascinating. 
And, uh, I'm glad I was able to get through. 
I just think about, you know, how it wasn't that long ago. 
You could easily get through on this and, and now it's, uh, it's a hell of a popular phone number. 
I felt like I was trying to be caller 15 in like 1982. 
How, how did you, uh, get through to us with a direct dial or, uh, anything in particular? 
Yeah, I direct dialed, uh, from my burner phone. 
I was listening. 
So that's something we didn't talk about. 
Uh, everything here is through WeChat and as an American, you can't really get WeChat. 
You need a Chinese phone number. 
Okay. 
So I was listening to you on my China phone, uh, that we put the SIM card in locally, but I was calling on the phone that I brought over from the States with the Washington DC phone number. 
So is that going to cost you a fortune to call a number in the States from China? 
No, I don't think so. 
I think we've got this, uh, this, uh, I hope not, but we've got a mobile calling plan. 
When I, I brought my own phone to, to, uh, Tokyo and I just paid $10 a day and I could call anybody back home that I wanted to. 
But if I called across the street for pizza, that was an international call. 
Amazing. 
That's, that's telecommunications. 
Yeah. 
Wow. 
That is. 
All right. 
Listen, you have a great day. 
And, uh, if you're there next week, give us a call then too. 
Sounds great. 
Yeah. 
I'll be here until the end. 
So, uh, talk to you again. 
All right. 
Be well. 
All right. 
Bye. 
Wow. 
That was awesome. 
What a great call. 
That made my night. 
A call from the Olympics. 
Sorry? 
Incredible. 
Yeah. 
That one last call, right? 
Mm-hmm. 
All right, folks. 
This is the longest overtime ever. 
We're flirting with two hours. 
Uh, so any closing thoughts from you guys who've been remarkably quiet? 
I know whoever that is, whoever that is. 
No, no, no, no. 
If it's for me, I'm not here. 
I'm really curious who's on the other end of it. 
Yeah. 
Don't be curious. 
Yeah. 
This is the one time you should be in curious. 
Kill the cat. 
It's going to kill us too if we're too curious. 
So, uh, I'm sorry. 
You guys were saying something though? 
No, I want to, I want to hear from more people who are in China covering the Olympic games now, but now that, that was, that was truly incredible. 
We, we, we love to, and, uh, we want you to call us on future installments, but also send us email OTH at 2600.com. 
Um, we totally want to hear about people who are in unique, uh, security and technical situations like this and, and what kind of challenges you're facing and, uh, tell us a little bit about what you're going through. 
Cause we, we are fascinated. 
And, you know, thinking with a hacker mindset that is always, that opens up so much in whatever story you're telling. 
And it, it works in, in, uh, good situations. 
It works in bad situations, observing and sharing what you see and, and, and the results of your experiments. 
That's, uh, it's always such a valuable thing. 
I just love the analogy of, uh, working together and, in, um, and, uh, the kind of level of seriousness that they're taking it with. 
I mean, I'm sure no one in this, uh, meant to feel like they were on some, you know, high stakes deployment, but they care about their work. 
They want to get it right and, uh, stay safe and do all of that. 
And, uh, even if that, if it means taking all this precaution, though, they're up for it. 
So that's, uh, it's harrowing and, uh, it's, it's what it takes, you know, sort of behind the scenes to, to get the information, uh, back to everybody watching. 
Wow. 
Um, okay. 
You know, this, this, this, this call is coming in right now. 
That's the number that called us at the beginning of the hour. 
You want to just make a quick, uh, quick pickup? 
Hello. 
You're not a voicemail system. 
So you need to press one to take this call. 
It's Google. 
You have to press one to take this call. 
Okay. 
Is someone there? 
Yes. 
Okay. 
You got to make it quick. 
We know you're the caller at the start of the hour. 
So, uh, we're giving you a chance. 
This is going to take one minute. 
Okay. 
Go ahead. 
Great. 
So, uh, first off, uh, meta is a recursive, uh, uh, acronym, just like Gnu means Gnu got not, not Unix. 
Meta stands for meta enhances targeted advertising. 
Secondly, Joe Grant did a video on his hack of the USB key to retrieve the $2 million of, uh, of tokens. 
Okay. 
Third, uh, right to repair Lewis Rossman. 
If you go to YouTube and look for Lewis Rossman, two S's two N's. 
He's got a, uh, store in New York city, 27th, uh, near seventh Avenue, uh, across from the fashion Institute of technology. 
He repairs Mac books. 
He's done hundreds of videos of board repairs and he founded, uh, a nonprofit to, uh, promote right for repair. 
He's, he's raised hundreds of thousands of dollars. 
He goes to Massachusetts all the time and other states to testify for, uh, right to repair before, uh, legislative bodies all over the country. 
And he's been doing this for years and I can't believe you have not interviewed him yet. 
I can't either. 
I can't. 
There's no reason we shouldn't have. 
Wow. 
And he's on 27th street and seventh Avenue in Manhattan. 
I'm sorry. 
We, we, we, we, we hear what you said, Bobcat? 
He has over a million subscribers on YouTube. 
Wow. 
Now Alex, you had a question? 
Yeah. 
Sorry about that. 
Uh, he's on 27th street and seventh Avenue in Manhattan. 
Yeah. 
He's on 27th street and near seventh Avenue across from the fashion Institute of technology. 
Yeah. 
That that's amazing. 
A lot of people at FIT have Mac books and he figured they'd, they'd break. 
And then of course the, uh, the, uh, the pandemic happened, but he's still there and he does great work. 
Cheap. 
If you have a broken Mac book or a broken anything, he can fix it. 
This guy needs to come to hope. 
Uh, he could do business right there. 
He actually, uh, is teaching, uh, micro soldering. 
Um, he's, he's doing it with his nonprofit and he hooked up with some hacker space somewhere in New York. 
I'm not sure where, but you can learn to use all the, all the stuff that he does. 
If you can find out more info for us and send it to us, we'd appreciate that. 
But we'll look at it. 
R O S S M A N N N. 
Okay. 
He's on YouTube. 
You can find him easily. 
Okay. 
Ropson repair group. 
Kyle, go ahead. 
Uh, I was just going to add, I mean, micro soldering specifically, I think is something that needs to be taught and understood at a much deeper level. 
Like the components are getting so small now that kind of work as an art form and they're not nearly enough hackers that are sharing and, um, teaching it. 
And I mean, we've had a lot of soldering, um, instruction in the past, but we, I think would like to see that pushed and evolve further. 
Anything else caller? 
Well, you can find him. 
Okay. 
Well, we'll, we'll track him down. 
All right. 
Thanks for your call. 
All right. 
And that's it. 
That's it. 
We gotta, we gotta stop now. 
Uh, boy, any final words guys? 
I retract my earlier, uh, don't be curious. 
That was a good call. 
Yes. 
You're right. 
You're right. 
Yeah. 
I I'm exhausted. 
So, uh, have a good night, everybody. 
Yeah. 
You, you, you've got your pajamas on in fact. 
Wow. 
Um, I'm all right. 
I mean, I could go for a bit. 
No, we're not going any further. 
No, that's it. 
I'm happy to, uh, see everyone again. 
I hope everyone continues to hack stuff. 
Please write us O T H at 2600.com. 
Tell us about what, uh, what is being hacked, what you're hacking, what you heard about being hacked, um, what you'd like to hack, what you think should be hacked. 
Um, or what you think could never be hacked. 
Uh, Gila, any last words from you? 
Uh, avoid a hacking cough. 
Okay. 
Good advice. 
Stay warm, stay careful, stay safe, and don't let anybody bullying you into not wearing, into wearing a mask. 
If you still want to do that, despite what the mandates say. 
Wait, don't say that again. 
Don't, don't let anyone bullying, bully you into not wearing a mask. 
If you still want to, despite what the mandates say. 
Get that on a bumper sticker. 
I think you'll have a hit. 
Shorten it a little bit. 
No, no, it's perfect. 
The way it is. 
All right. 
Great hanging out guys. 
We'll see you next week. 
Good night. 
Bye.