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Hello, it's WBAI New York. 
And it's 7 o'clock, time for Off The Hook. 
Off The Hook. 
And it's good when we meet now. 
We'll be right back. 
We'll be right back. 
And a very good evening to everybody. 
The program is Off The Hook. 
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening. 
Joined tonight by Kyle. 
Hello. 
And Elver and Skypeland, we have Rob T. Firefly. 
Good evening. 
We have Gila. 
Good evening. 
And we have Alex. 
Hello, everybody. 
And sorry for the bumpy start. 
Most of that was my fault. 
We had a smooth week last week. 
We get one. 
That's it. 
And we're off next week. 
So we're going to recuperate. 
But in two weeks, two weeks, we'll have a smooth intro, I promise. 
All right. 
Well, you know, it's a changed world since last week. 
Things are quite different. 
A lot has changed. 
The convoy is gone from Ottawa. 
Ukraine's being invaded, but we'll get to that. 
Trump launched a new social media platform on Monday. 
And we're all just nonstop talking about this. 
Okay. 
Who has an account? 
Come on. 
Spill the beans. 
I didn't get one. 
You didn't get an account? 
No. 
They turned you down? 
Sure. 
Yeah. 
I didn't. 
I actually wasn't that interested. 
Yeah. 
Right. 
Okay. 
Alex, I know you got an account. 
You know what? 
I didn't even bother. 
What's wrong with you people? 
Oh, my God. 
Well, you know, why would I? 
I don't want to be associated with any of this. 
But I heard that there was such a backlog of account creation that it was meaningless to even try to get an account there. 
But I really don't want my name to contribute to the velocity of this type of thing. 
I think, you know, these social media platforms are, in my mind, to a large extent, propelled by their own momentum. 
The more accounts they have on there, the more likely it is that people are going to sign up. 
And I don't even want my name and address or even a bogus email address of mine to contribute to that. 
Because that's what will make it a success, a bogus email address of yours. 
You think it's like padding it? 
It's all the little things that add up. 
Sounds like you forgot to do it. 
Okay. 
Rob, how about you? 
You know, I've already got too many social media things to keep track of. 
Oh, my God. 
Another one. 
I really want to add one more. 
Gilab, tell me, you made the attempt. 
Sorry. 
Does nobody care? 
My God. 
This guy used to be president. 
He's running a site called Truth. 
Truth. 
I mean, Truth hasn't meant so much since, you know, those anti-smoking zealots had that account. 
You know what? 
I just assumed everybody else was doing it, so I didn't. 
If you tell me the website, though, because I don't know what it is, I'll go register right now. 
Oh, my God. 
None of us know the website, do we? 
I'm guessing it's like truth.social or something. 
Yeah, that's how you get malware, by guessing what it might be. 
No, not falling for that again. 
Does anybody serious? 
Does anybody know what it's called? 
No, we're working on it. 
Oh, my God. 
Wow. 
I'm sorry, folks. 
We're looking at it in real time. 
This should be priority number one. 
We've let you down. 
We've let you down. 
It's not truth.social. 
We'll tell you that much. 
Well, because .social isn't a top-level domain, is it? 
I was going to say. 
I've got it here. 
It's truthsocial.com. 
Really? 
That's the best they could do? 
Truthsocial.com? 
What an awkward phrase. 
All right. 
Truthsocial.com. 
There it is. 
Okay. 
It says, join the waiting list. 
Why would there be a waiting list if they're open? 
Okay. 
Well, that's what I was talking about. 
There's a backlog for account creation. 
Well, that's not what you were talking about. 
You talked about not wanting your bogus email address to contribute to Trump's success. 
That's what you were talking about. 
Well, also, there was a backlog. 
That was the initial thing that I had raised. 
Yeah. 
About a half a billion people got backlogged? 
I think there's a lot. 
I think there's a lot of backlog. 
I think it probably has something to do with the manner in which the accounts are created, that it's not working properly. 
Right? 
You know, or perhaps they're only letting a certain amount of people on the platform to make it seem as if it's some kind of exclusive type of club, similar to what Gmail did back in 2003, 2004. 
I got a website error. 
I got a website error. 
405, not allowed. 
Does that mean I'm not allowed, or is their whole website broken? 
Interesting. 
Did you really get a 405 error? 
Yes, I did. 
You think I'd make something like that up? 
405, not allowed, right in front of me. 
I do think you made something like that up. 
Beneath that, it says NGINX slash 1.21.5. 
Make of that what you will. 
That's a proxy server. 
Okay. 
NGINX. 
Can you... 
Or reverse proxy or something like that. 
Well, can you access it and get into it by the end of the show and bring the server down to its knees? 
You could stop it if you were working on the machine. 
Okay, let's do that. 
That'd be simple. 
No, we're not doing that. 
But I think it seems like it started and it's working. 
But it's working in that it's telling you that it's not allowed. 
So they succeeded in getting an error message to display. 
That's good. 
Congratulations. 
They're moving forward. 
Go ahead, Gila. 
I mean, I was going to say the other way that they're kind of writing it down. 
So keeping... 
You can't access... 
There's no app for Androids right now. 
There's... 
It's coming to the Google Play Store, but right now the app is only active on the iOS platform. 
But wait. 
Make of that what you will. 
I'm trying it on a laptop and it doesn't say anything about having to use a particular type of phone. 
So we went to truthsocial.com and all it says was you can sign up for the waiting list and download the iOS app. 
Follow the truth. 
Well, who among us has a device with iOS on it? 
I don't. 
Do you, Kyle? 
No. 
No? 
Gila, I see you raising your hand and... 
I do have an iOS device. 
Mm-hmm. 
However, I don't like waiting in lines in general. 
And I don't know if I want to get into the half a million strong queue to join Truth Social to, like... 
I don't know, man. 
That just seems like a cesspool I'm not really super psyched about. 
What's happened to this country? 
We used to... 
We used to all get along. 
Now we're willing to sign up for ex-president's social media platforms. 
Alex, I know you have an iOS device, but it's a waste of my time to pursue this, isn't it? 
Probably. 
Yeah. 
I think it very well may be. 
Well, then, let's waste time by just updating people on what happened. 
People who downloaded the app reported seeing error messages when they tried entering a birth date, email, or phone number to create an account. 
That's for people, I guess, that did have iOS. 
Something went wrong. 
Please try again. 
The message read. 
That was kind of the post-2016 election slogan, wasn't it? 
Something went wrong. 
Please try again. 
And we did. 
We did. 
Anyway, others reported they were placed on a wait list after signing up due to massive demand. 
Do you really think it was massive demand or just massive incompetence? 
We have placed you on our wait list. 
It sounds kind of ominous, doesn't it? 
And you got a wait list number if you were lucky enough to be put on the wait list. 
People who pre-ordered True Social had the app automatically downloaded to their iPhones. 
The app's release underscores Trump's plans to return to social media after being booted from Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube last year. 
The company has made the rare move to bar Trump, who was president at the time, from its platform because of concerns that his remarks could spark violence following the deadly January 6th Capitol Hill riots. 
Well, I guess he hasn't yet gotten a single message out. 
I haven't heard of one. 
And very few people apparently are able to get in. 
So, wow. 
It's moving along just as planned. 
Maybe he's on the wait list, too. 
Yeah. 
And he hasn't been able to get signed up either. 
Well, you know, one thing about him, he likes to be treated like everybody else. 
So, I could see that happening. 
I could see Trump waiting in line for his own system to work. 
Like, okay, True Social, I guess we put that on hold. 
But you know what? 
It brings up something interesting because we started a fight today at 2600 with Instagram. 
We just, you know, we're bored and had nothing else to do. 
Waiting for the other convoy to start driving to Washington. 
So, it's a slow day. 
Well, apart from the invasion of Ukraine, but we'll get to that. 
I promise we will. 
So, we realized, you know what? 
We're not on Instagram. 
Why aren't we on Instagram? 
And we realized we're not on Instagram because we're banned from Instagram. 
We are banned from Instagram. 
And we've never even done anything on Instagram to get banned in the first place. 
You guys surprised by this? 
Alex, you look stunned. 
I'm never stunned with things that come out of your mouth at this point. 
Well, that's wise. 
Yeah. 
No, no, go on. 
Go on. 
Well, it's our name. 
They don't like our name. 
They don't like 2600. 
And the reason for that is because they have some kind of system they claim where they can't use all numbers. 
Which is not true because there are accounts with all numbers. 
I think one is called 433 or something like that. 
So, okay, you're going to start off by lying to us and saying that you can't. 
First of all, they never said it to us. 
We've never gotten a human. 
I don't know. 
Are there humans that work at Instagram? 
I've never heard of one. 
But we can't get anybody to actually acknowledge us, respond to us, give an explanation or anything. 
This is just what other people, Instagram apologists, have said to us over the years. 
And this has been going on for many years. 
Basically, you can't have an account if your name is all numbers. 
Well, you know what? 
Our name is all numbers. 
And that is our name. 
And I don't know of any other entity, really, that is affected like we are. 
Now, you could say, why don't you change your name? 
Yeah, that's nice. 
You expect us to change our name because it doesn't fit into the parameters of some antiquated megacorp. 
No, we're not going to do that. 
2600 is our name. 
That is what we are going to use. 
Why don't you spell out your name? 
Why don't you put your name in numbers then? 
You know, come on. 
You can't tell somebody to simply change who they are, whether they're a company or an individual, to suit some ridiculous standard that doesn't make any sense. 
It's not the 1980s anymore. 
We used to have trouble using all numbers in various fields back then. 
But we figured it out. 
It's now 2022. 
I think we can handle this. 
In fact, I know we can handle this because they are handling it in other accounts. 
So, yeah, we realized, you know, we're kind of upset by this. 
We weren't even thinking about it before. 
But once we got fired up, yeah, we could have done so many cool things on Instagram. 
Think about it. 
We could have put up pictures of, you know, old computers and phones and hacker meetings. 
And, oh, boy, the lost opportunities just because they won't let us use our name. 
Yeah, I was going to do some, like, unboxing and various colors of unboxing. 
What's unboxing? 
Yeah, you know, just things I find. 
Oh. 
And, you know, showing off, like, new old stuff. 
Yeah, the stuff that's in the box. 
Okay. 
We get equipment sometimes. 
We find various things, various artifacts from telephone history. 
We legitimately find them. 
We don't find them. 
Or, like, you know, if we're working on our phone booth, maybe we want to, like, update people. 
That's a perfectly normal thing to do. 
Oh, you didn't know we had a phone booth. 
Well, if you looked at our Instagram, which doesn't exist, you might have seen it. 
Check out the progress on our phone booth restoration. 
This world would be a happier place if there were a 2600 Instagram account over the last few years. 
We could display various cool things. 
You know what? 
That is probably the main source of joy being denied to people on Instagram. 
Absolutely. 
No, they won't have it. 
They won't answer. 
They won't make any exceptions. 
So that's our social media battle of the day. 
And every day we have a different one. 
Every day there's something else that gets in the way, annoys us, some ridiculous rules, somebody not doing their job, someone not answering basic questions or fixing security issues, things like that. 
So if you feel this is something worthy of attention and you know anybody at Instagram, if there are any people there or you just have a way of publicizing this, please, by all means, help us get our name to be represented on Instagram like everybody else on the planet is able to do. 
Don't discriminate because we're all numbers. 
Alex, looks like you have something to say there. 
Oh, I always do. 
It's snarky as usual. 
But have you tried signing up to Truth Social with all numbers yet? 
You might have better luck there. 
You just heard me try to sign up to Truth Social and not even be able to get past the first line. 
So I don't think I can get a number registered yet. 
Did you hear about our payphone of the day project on Instagram? 
Did you hear about that? 
No. 
No. 
You know why you didn't hear about that? 
How did I miss that? 
Because we're banned from Instagram. 
We don't have an Instagram account. 
That's right. 
So we can't post that. 
Darn. 
We can't post that. 
We can't post old computers. 
We can't post old printouts of old computer systems from many, many years ago. 
What about articles, various periodicals of yesteryear that might have a certain prescience to the moment? 
Pictures from the 2600 warehouse. 
Yeah, that people would never see otherwise. 
Oh, wow. 
They'd have to come visit us and look at our photo albums. 
That's the only way they could see those things. 
Yeah. 
You know, there are so many pictorial ways to show the hacker world. 
And we get contributions all the time, but we have no place to put them, except in a magazine, of course. 
But we only come out four times a year, whereas Instagram comes out once a day. 
It's a shame. 
It's a real shame. 
Oh, you can do it whenever you want? 
Okay. 
See, I don't know how it works. 
I don't know how, because they won't let us in. 
All right. 
We have to move on. 
Yeah, that was not the only story you had. 
No, it definitely was not. 
So, the Adopt a Trucker campaign, they had a bunch of emails leaked by a hacker. 
What's wrong with all the people that get involved in these movements? 
They're always getting hacked, always having their info leaked. 
You get the feeling that information security is not high on their list. 
A hacker leaked emails from the inbox of Chris Gara. 
Or Gara. 
I don't know how to pronounce that. 
I'm going to say Gara. 
All right. 
Chris Gara. 
The founder of the Pro Freedom Convoy fundraiser, known online as Adopt a Trucker, the data cache, which contains roughly 250 megabytes of emails and attachments from Gara's ProtonMail account, was provided to the Journalism and Transparency Collective. 
Well, guess who? 
D-D-A Secrets on Monday, yesterday. 
Wow. 
It's amazing. 
Every week, we're reporting on something they're doing, something they're revealing. 
I'm interested in how ProtonMail was compromised. 
I thought ProtonMail was, yeah. 
Aren't they really hard to get stuff from? 
You guys have any insight on this? 
Not especially. 
Just, it was interesting today to see ProtonMail being sort of dunked on by so many voices in the security industry. 
Not only for this, but just in general. 
And a lot of people are saying, you know, just running your own email client with properly instituted encryption, PGP, GPG, is basically as secure as ProtonMail will ever get, maybe more so. 
But, of course, our pals at DDoS Secrets, they do good work. 
And it is fascinating to see the things that come out of what they do. 
You can reach them at DDoS Secrets, or D-D-O-S-E-C-R-E-T-S dot com. 
And, yeah, as you said, there are so many things coming out, like, week by week. 
There are new things, and it's all very enjoyable. 
Do you know what you can't do, though? 
You can't link to their site on Twitter. 
Yeah. 
Here's another thing in social media. 
I'm right. 
Can you verify that? 
If you try to link to anything on their website, is that a technical problem? 
What makes that happen? 
I could see that being, like, a precaution. 
A precaution? 
Alex? 
My understanding, rudimentary as it is, is that, by design, Twitter will not allow you to link to DDoS Secrets because it would violate their policy. 
I believe this is the case. 
It would violate their policy of linking to, quote-unquote, hacked materials or stolen data, things like that. 
So that becomes problematic on a number of levels, especially when, if you consider in DDoS Secrets, it's become such a popular repository for critical data that is certainly within the public interest, as this story indicates. 
And then you compare that to something like what happened with Credit Suisse this week, which is, you know, yet another whistleblower came out of the woodworks and released a trove of data about Credit Suisse accounts going back, I believe, as far as decades. 
And that material is also exfiltrated material. 
So there are lots of news stories, and I believe you can link to all of those news stories, and there are a massive amount of journalistic outlets that were involved in analyzing the data from the Credit Suisse leaks. 
The same cast of characters that were involved in the Panama Papers, the same cast of characters in terms of media organizations that were involved with the Paradise Papers. 
And what was the latest one, and what was the latest one, the Pandora Papers? 
It's all the same. 
But yet, if you're linking directly to a source that has the data itself, for some reason, that is forbidden. 
Hang on, hang on. 
When you started talking about this, I thought you meant that you couldn't link to the hacked data. 
And that sort of makes sense. 
But what it sounds like you're saying at this point is that you can't leak to the people that have that information somewhere on their site. 
And that, to me, is a real issue. 
That's a real problem, because you're blacklisting people who have basically leaked information that they didn't hack themselves. 
It was leaked to them like a journalist, you know, like the Pentagon Papers, like all sorts of things. 
You're not linked to the New York Times because leaked information can be found in their pages. 
I mean, where do you draw the line here? 
Yeah, I think it's the domain itself that is banned from being linked to on Twitter, as I understand it. 
And Rob may have some additional color on that, because he's bobbing his beautiful head there. 
Well, that is true. 
And interestingly, if you search Twitter for DDoSsecrets.com, you will just see a bunch of tweets about, because I can't link to, and then they obscure the name of the domain, here's a link to another story or something. 
If you do use Twitter, we can highly recommend following Emma Best, the co-founder of DDoSsecrets, who was a guest on this program some time ago, and retweets or otherwise provides additional insights into the news stories that come of their work. 
You could find them at NatSecGeek. 
That's N-A-T-S-E-C-G-E-E-K. 
Now, before you send letters that accuse us of being hypocrites for not complaining when Trump gets kicked off of Twitter, but we are complaining about this, you know, they have the right to do this. 
Twitter can do this. 
It's their system. 
If they say, you know, we don't like people using the letter E, they can do that. 
We can say it's stupid. 
We can say it's hypocritical. 
We don't have to like it. 
But we do recognize they can do it, and we're going to talk about it. 
We're going to let people know this is what they're doing. 
This is how they're being hypocritical. 
Just like, you know, we'll say Google is being hypocritical, and they won't spell out marijuana when you're typing that into a search bar. 
You ever try that? 
For some reason, they are more conservative about something that is legal in many parts of the country. 
And they do everything possible to keep you from actually finding that word. 
If you're trying to type something out, alcohol is no problem. 
Sex crime is no problem. 
Every horrible thing you can think of that you can type in, it'll suggest a word, but not marijuana. 
It's weird. 
So, yeah, there's all these little fiefdoms on the Internet where basically these megacorporations decide what is right, what is moral, what is not. 
And I think, you know, it's up to all of us to point it out when we find them. 
They should at least link to the etymology of that word. 
That would be nice. 
They're going to show one suggestion. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Well, you know, I feel like this is something that comes up several times every year on this show. 
And I remember us several years ago arguing about Alex Jones being kicked off Twitter and whether or not that was right. 
And, you know, I still maintain that I think it's wrong for social media companies to determine whether or not we should be seeing certain content, whether or not it's good for us, whether or not it's bad for us. 
It seems like it's a very paternalistic stance for a technology company that, in all likelihood, probably knows me and has more data points about myself than I could ever imagine. 
But I don't think it's right for them to determine the content of what I should be seeing and that we have to go back to the fundamentals here. 
And I think that the best filter, the best firewall for nonsense and the best technology that we have to screen out absolute garbage like Alex Jones is not necessarily the tech companies and their algorithms that are going to overblock or underblock whatever the content is at issue, but our own gray matter between our ears. 
And I think we should rely on our own education system that teaches us about spurious logic and specious thoughts and phalluses and that we need to really rely on ourselves to moderate content, not necessarily tech giants. 
You're in the United States right now. 
I am indeed. 
Okay. 
And you think our educational system is sufficient to protect us against nonsense, lies, rewriting history, all that kind of thing. 
I mean, yeah, in theory, what you say is great, but in practice doesn't work. 
Well, let me ask you this. 
I, I myself, I'm a, I'm a product of the public education system and the public university system. 
And I think you are as well, Matt. 
Last I checked. 
Yes. 
Yeah. 
So wouldn't you say that they, you know, it, it did a decent job at teaching you perhaps right from wrong. 
And yeah, how to put one foot in front of the other sentence verb object. 
Have you, have you attended one of your reunions lately? 
Yeah. 
What do you think of the people that come to those things? 
I do get the point. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
So imagine all the people in high school and college that you went to school with. 
Imagine what they're doing now. 
Tell me that system worked for the better. 
I don't think it did. 
Most of them are on anti-vax Facebook groups. 
I will give you that. 
But, and the reason they're on these groups is because the social media companies allow these lies to, to fester and spread unchecked. 
There's nobody there to check them. 
And yeah, I agree. 
It's, it's disturbing to have this paternalistic atmosphere that these companies basically exude. 
But like I said, it's their system and they can do that. 
They are allowed to do that. 
We need an adult somewhere to say, this is not true. 
This is wrong. 
We can prove it's wrong. 
Otherwise, you just have situations like we just saw in Ottawa where people are up there spreading all kinds of fiction and being believed in their, in their own little bubble. 
And having that spread on a, on a, on a global basis, it's, you know, it's very, very dangerous. 
And I know, you know, controlling people in any way is also very, very dangerous, but we can't ignore one for the other. 
Well, I, I just think that we're trying to fit a, a, a psychological problem with a technological solution here. 
And I think the tech companies time and time again have failed to get it right when it comes to content moderation. 
I think that the universal panacea here, what will write all of these wrongs, not just in the United States, but the world over is if we had better funding for education, we can look at the errors and the missteps. 
We're getting, we're getting to the point where we can't even talk about slavery in schools. 
Okay. 
So they're banning books. 
How, how do you see us getting to a stage where education is going to solve these problems when education is becoming illegal? 
It has to, well, you know, banning slavery and things like that. 
This is, you know, idiotic. 
And certainly it's, it's indicative of problems in our educational system, but at root, what we're talking about is logic, right? 
And, and really philosophy, I believe wholeheartedly, if people were taught more clearly how, and concisely how to think, how to reason, how to recognize fallacious arguments, that would contribute greatly to the decrease of misinformation that is spread around social media platforms. 
That is not taught in schools these days. 
But when Mr. 
Spock comes down from the sky and teaches us logic, that'll be the day where this isn't an issue anymore. 
But until then, you got us, you got, you got humans that are just running around, spreading all kinds of nonsense. 
And, and, and, and how do you say, no, that's wrong. 
And, and move on from that. 
When's the last time you had a conversation with somebody who believed fervently that the election was stolen or that the vaccine is, is, you know, some 5G conspiracy or whatever. 
And convince them, using your logic, using your, your, your, your very rational points. 
It doesn't work. 
It doesn't work. 
I've spent so many nights in bars trying to, trying to make it work. 
It doesn't work. 
I go ahead, Rob. 
That's because they've, they've already gone down that rabbit hole. 
You get a nip it in the butt when, when it happens. 
Well, when's that, but it's, you know, what do we do? 
All the people have already gone down the rabbit hole. 
Just seal it up and say a prayer. 
You know, go ahead, Rob. 
While we've been talking, I've been playing around with the URL, ddosssecrets.com on Twitter. 
It's interesting. 
And I found some interesting stuff. 
First of all, if you try and tweet it, it won't let you tweet it. 
It will say something went wrong. 
And if you, if you're, if you're persistent about it, you'll get an error message that says, we can't complete this request because this link has been identified by Twitter as, let's see, or our partners as being potentially harmful. 
Visit our help center to learn more. 
Um, and that even holds, if you try and send it in a direct message, I tried direct messaging one of my other Twitter accounts, just the name ddosssecrets.com. 
And it fails to send by saying, this request looks like it might be automated to pretend to protect our users from spam and other malicious activity. 
We can't complete this action right now. 
Well, that's just a, that's just a bold face lie automated. 
It really is. 
It's, it's a, it's completely lying. 
I'm just doing this in desktop Twitter, you know, no bots or anything. 
I found some older tweets from before the ban, um, that had ddosssecrets URLs in them. 
If you click, if you click the URL in one of those older tweets, you don't get the site. 
You still get a Twitter page saying, warning, this link may be unsafe. 
And, uh, another page full of, uh, warnings that, uh, it's potentially spammy or unsafe and in accordance with Twitter's URL policy, uh, this link could fall into any of the below categories, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 
Um, and, uh, you know, you get a big button to take you back to the previous page. 
Can we experiment a little bit though? 
As long as we're doing this in real time. 
Sure. 
Can you try, cause I'm wondering if it thinks that the, the DM might be automated because it's just the URL. 
Can you drop in some Ipsum and the URL? 
Yes. 
Send me a DM and, and just say, Hey, Emmanuel, here's a site I think you'd like. 
And just give me the URL. 
And if, if it refuses to send a private message to me with, with your recommendation, I will have, you know, another fight tomorrow with another company. 
Um, speaking of URLs, by the way, did you know that you cannot paste a link on Instagram? 
You can't put a link. 
Links are not clickable in posts. 
I wouldn't know that because I don't use Instagram because we're not allowed on Instagram. 
Yeah, I don't use Instagram because it's a product of Facebook now known as meta. 
So that's, that's, uh, you know, just my reasoning, but it won't let me send a message even with some text, some descriptive stuff. 
Um, it still comes up with the error message as long as the D D O S E C R E T S.com, uh, URL is in there. 
So it's, it's filtered. 
It does not tell you why it's filtered. 
It lies about why it's not posting it for you. 
So, um, it's very interesting how this works. 
It's, I guess it's looking for a string, a particular string. 
And just, if you enter that string, it blocks the whole message. 
What I'm wondering is what are the worst, most foul words you can think of or threats or all sorts of very dark things. 
Does it block any or all of those, or is it just websites they don't like or are afraid of? 
You know, that's, that's disturbing. 
Again, they can do it, but we can also expose it and say, that's not cool. 
I mean, I'm also curious what else might be on this sort of automated kill list. 
Uh-huh. 
Exactly. 
Yeah. 
It can't just be D D O S secrets, right? 
And how hard would it be to make like mirror sites that were basically that site with different, different domains and subdomains in the URL? 
Mm-hmm. 
I mean, you could make a complete clone of it that was synchronized to just use the different domain. 
Hey, here's a thought. 
Is D D O S secrets on Instagram? 
I just want to cause trouble. 
You guys have anything else? 
I have another, another Twitter related story here. 
Oh, sure. 
Let's go for it. 
Okay. 
Um, Ukraine is being invaded. 
I promised I'd get to it. 
I am getting to it. 
Um, and, um, there is, um, a story involving Twitter, of course, because there always is, um, as Russian troops and armored vehicles began moving into Ukrainian territory, social media accounts, sharing images and videos from Eastern Donbass and Lhansk regions have been a crucial source of information, sharing footage of Russian helicopters heading toward Crimea or tank divisions moving to the border. 
But as the conflict intensifies, many researchers sharing this primary material taken from social media, commonly known as open source intelligence or OSINT, uh, have found that their Twitter accounts were unexpectedly suspended on the night of February 22nd. 
Last night, OSINT researcher, Kyle Glenn was locked out of his account for 12 hours. 
According to tweets from Glenn and a post shared by another OSINT organization, security analyst Oliver Alexander also claimed to have been locked out of his account twice in 24 hours. 
Major pain in the middle of, uh, an invasion to be locked out of your damn Twitter account. 
Um, outside of the Anglosphere, which is where we are, uh, the French language OSINT account, Neuron Intelligence, the Spanish language account, Mundo en Conflicto, and Brazilian OSINT account, Noticias Igeras, were also affected. 
A Twitter thread compiled by Nick Waters, an analyst at the pioneering OSINT organization, Bellingcat, uh, lists more account suspensions. 
In a tweet, Alexander shared a screenshot with a message stating that the account had been locked for violating Twitter rules, though the exact rule violation was not specified. 
Um, researchers raised concerns that the account suspension could have been part of a mass reporting campaign intended to disable OSINT accounts during a Russian invasion. 
I would, I would, I would bet on that. 
Just simply reporting an account can get it suspended, you know? 
Go ahead, everybody report us tonight, and I'll bet we get suspended, and then we can talk about it in two weeks, assuming we get it back. 
In a statement, uh, Twitter spokesperson, oh, they found someone who works there, uh, Twitter spokesperson Elizabeth Busby said that action had been taken against these accounts in error and was not part of a coordinated campaign. 
We've been proactively monitoring for emerging narratives that are, uh, via, violative, violative? 
I don't think I've ever used that word in my life, of our policies, and in this instance, we took enforcement action on a number of accounts in error. 
We're expeditiously reviewing these actions and have already proactively reinstated access to a number of affected accounts. 
The claims that the errors were a coordinated bot campaign or the result of mass reporting is inaccurate. 
Okay, then what was it? 
If it wasn't mass reporting or some kind of bot campaign, why were they all taken down? 
Does anyone have an answer, uh, Alex? 
You know, this is really interesting to me because it, uh, the rule that was purportedly violated here by these accounts was the rule against posting synthetic or manipulated media. 
And what does that mean? 
I find that really fascinating. 
What is synthetic or manipulated media? 
Well, synthetic or manipulated media would be perhaps something like a deep fake or a video, perhaps, of Nancy Pelosi slowed down to make it look as if she was slurring her words and drunk. 
You know, there's, there's been a lot of, uh, instances of synthetic or manipulated media. 
And what we're talking about here is essentially misinformation, fake news, you know, false, false stuff that people are going to be posting. 
But, you know, I, I don't, I'm not so sure about what kind of technology Twitter has under the hood to detect synthetic or manipulated media. 
My understanding is it's possible. 
There is a, uh, an, an academic, uh, with, with whom I used to work actually over at Dartmouth called, uh, uh, honey for read. 
And he's done a lot of research first into the detection of steganography or embedded messages and, and images and things like that. 
And now the detection of deep fakes and whatnot. 
But, um, I think that the, the technology to detect this is still very much in its early stages. 
It's still very much early days for this type of thing. 
So that, that leaves me to conclude then, maybe erroneously, that the reason why these accounts were flagged for synthetic or manipulated materials is because people very likely reported them for doing so. 
Well, they said that wasn't the case. 
They said it wasn't because of people reporting them. 
I don't understand it then, uh, you know, because frankly, well, no, I don't think that they said it wasn't people reporting it. 
I think that they, what they claimed manual was that it wasn't a coordinated campaign, uh, of, of the result, the result of mass reporting. 
That's right. 
That's different than individuals reporting. 
Well, I don't think you're going to get an account suspended if only an individual reports it. 
You need a lot of people to report it for it to get suspended. 
Not necessarily, not if it's a serious violation or if it's a serious error, you know, or if, if the account related, let's say to, um, a political figure, if a political figure reports something for misinformation or, or false or synthetic imagery, or somebody, you know, perhaps with a blue check mark with a massive amount of followers, that's probably going to get more attention than an individual who just signed up for Twitter reporting, uh, synthetic or manipulated materials. 
Unless they're using some kind of detection technology to flag the, these, these, these images, then it must have been reported. 
And if it can be reported and taken down by an individual, then they're relying on the wisdom of the crowd, which they know and have and should have learned rather in from the past that that can be very, very easily manipulated. 
So whether it's on the technology side that this era occurred, or it's on the reporting side that this era occurred, it's extraordinarily concerning given what's happening right now on the ground in Ukraine. 
And the, the place in which these platforms themselves have positioned, uh, you know, have positioned their, their worth and their value. 
Because if you think about the idea, and again, this is something I keep banging on about it in this, on the show, that these platforms have become, uh, ecosystems for diplomats and nations to begin talking with each other. 
If you think back to the repartee between Donald Trump and other world leaders, North Korean world leaders, you know, discussions and dialogues between nuclear powers, the idea that Ukrainian, Ukrainian videos that have a lot of value, inherent value and, and OSINT value are being flagged and taken down at a critical time. 
And the history of the world, and the history of the world, when Russia is about to invade Ukraine, you know, that is showing to me that these platforms may not be fit for purpose. 
This is a clear demonstration of that. 
It's a clear demonstration that perhaps we should not be relying on these media channels and these systems and these networks to get our world news. 
There's clear problems here. 
I couldn't agree more. 
I couldn't agree more that our reliance on, on these apps and these, these Silicon Valley companies, it's unhealthy. 
And, and they're demonstrating it for us. 
They're showing that they don't have a grip on a lot of these important issues. 
I found the, uh, the terms of the synthetic and manipulated media policy, and this is what they, they say, um, under the terms, accounts may not share information that has been significantly and deceptively altered, manipulated, or fabricated, is shared in a deceptive manner or with false context, or is likely to result in widespread confusion on public issues, impact public safety, or cause serious harm. 
And, and I guess, uh, maybe sharing the, um, uh, the picture of, uh, Russian tanks moving towards Ukraine might cause serious harm or, or confusion or impact public safety in the eyes of somebody or some, some, uh, artificial intelligence entity someplace. 
Not the way to get information out. 
So, um, yeah, pick up a telephone or, or, uh, you know, broadcast something and, and, and get the news out that way, but don't rely on these companies. 
Yeah. 
I'm hearing this strong, um, support for traditional, good, uh, reliable journalism and independent press. 
It's, it's, it's, it's odd that we keep kind of coming back to, oh, wait, maybe this new media, maybe this new plot, maybe they aren't really, um, the revolution in every sense that, that, that, that they're cracked up to be, that they're really, um, uh, hyped as. 
And for specific traditional, important purposes, like, uh, diplomacy specifically that, that Alex mentions, it's just not something we should be using, uh, especially with weird amplification and, and, and other kinds of algorithmic, basically profit motivated systems running in the background. 
And, um, and then these ham-fisted solutions to, to control one thing or the other, not really, um, taking into account, uh, consequences or side effects or, um, what, what might also get kind of, um, uh, uh, uh, filtered in the process. 
Well, you know, those old fashioned traditional means of getting, um, news out have their problems too. 
And just go to RT, uh, which, uh, you know, Russia today, they have a presence here in the United States, RT.com. 
You can, uh, uh, probably get it on your cable system. 
If not, uh, your Roku will easily get it and watch the news there. 
Watch the news there. 
It's, it's professional. 
It's, um, you know, it's, it's, um, it's, it's, um, calm, but it's filled with lies. 
It's like Fox News. 
In fact, I've noticed the same stories being read almost verbatim on both Russia today and Fox News concerning what, um, what Ukrainians are doing to Russians and how they're attacking. 
Yeah. 
Like Ukraine is going to attack Russia, just all sorts of things that make you laugh when you watch it, but it's right there. 
And it's being presented in much the same way that radio Moscow would broadcast complete fiction in the decades when, when shortwave was, uh, the way that the news got out to the world. 
So, um, state sanctioned, state funded media, it's, uh, is, is, is very privy to, um, uh, to spreading all sorts of propaganda and to not spreading the truth. 
But, you know, we can recognize that we can, we can talk about this. 
And, um, I, I, I do think that, um, uh, that social media and independent, um, um, uh, blogs or what have you, podcasts are also valuable in getting news out, but we have to, we have to recognize them for what they are, which is one sliver of the reality that's out there. 
Whether it's true, whether it's not true, we need to be able to question everything that is, that is so important. 
And the same thing goes for what you may be seeing on CNN or, uh, or from the white house question that as well. 
But there are some things that, you know, when you see them, you know, they're true. 
And, um, it doesn't matter how many people tell you that black is white or, or two plus two equals five guys. 
Any, anything else? 
I, I completely agree with you there. 
And I think it underscores the need for access to primary source materials, which is also something that is being denied on Twitter with respect to, to, to DDoS secrets. 
And, and I, and I see that as just, you know, another indication, uh, that, you know, we're going the wrong direction here when it comes to where we get our media, where we, and, and, and, and on what we rely for something like the truth, because the truth is not that which garners the most likes or the most outrage or the most laughs, whatever it is. 
You know, it's not something that can be shifted or manipulated in, in that way by the crowd. 
You know, I believe in, in certain forms of pragmatism and, and truth relating to, to, to what works in certain things, but certainly not to be manipulated by the crowd or by algorithms, or as Kyle mentioned rightly, uh, you know. 
It, ad-based mechanisms that are, that are essentially manipulating our content feeds for profit. 
You know, when you combine news and ads and amplification and algorithms all for profit, while you're collecting data continuously on those who are reading and, and where their eyeballs are going, what they're scrolling on, how much time they're spending on this. 
It's all really kind of scary. 
I, I do feel, I really hope that we look back on this time, 10 years from now, with a lot of regret, saying, I can't believe we did that in such an unregulated fashion. 
And I'm not, I don't mean to, to, to knock on Twitter or Meta or Facebook, whatever the hell it is these days, too much. 
I mean, they created some really interesting technology that's changed the world. 
I just don't think it's fit for purpose for dialogue between nations. 
I think, uh, what, what is also interesting to think about is that you have to have a rich media environment to compare sources. 
You know, maybe there's aspects of one entity that you don't trust versus another. 
Think about it. 
If we didn't hear, uh, statements from the government, our own government statements from, um, uh, uh, other countries outside of the U S. 
And it was, uh, just sort of this narrow one place was telling us one specific thing about what's going on in Ukraine. 
And that was it. 
That was, we only saw this crisis through a pinhole. 
How easy would it be for all of these other platforms to dismiss that, that reporting, but because there is a confluence of many different sources right now, including official statements from the United States military, from the state department, from the Ukrainian defense ministry. 
And the Ukrainian president himself and, and, and all of, uh, the NATO allies and all of these other news organizations, people can compare, pick your choice, pick what reporting you want to believe. 
That may not be the case in a place like Russia or in China or in other parts of the world. 
Uh, and, and if in turn, you know, you basically put yourself in a media silo of just a social media platform, you do not benefit in the same way. 
And you should also listen to those Russian reports as well. 
Um, listen to RT, see what they're saying and, uh, reach your own conclusions, but do it based on facts. 
Do it based on what you can, can learn from, uh, from reading history, from, from just, um, seeing a variety of different, uh, perspectives. 
Hey, we're almost out of time, but I did want to get to, um, a couple of, uh, hope related things. 
First of all, uh, we are still accepting, uh, speaker submissions. 
In fact, we're coming up on our first deadline, uh, which is February 28th. 
That's next Monday. 
That's for early submissions to give a talk at the help conference. 
Help is taking place this summer, July 22nd through 24th at St. 
John's university in Queens, right here in New York city. 
It's, it's a really awesome site, a lot more space, a lot more, uh, possibility of things we can, uh, we can do. 
If you have a talk, an idea for, um, a panel discussion or a lecture or something you just want to share, uh, in the form of, um, standing up in front of an audience and, and talking about it, and it's got something to do with technology or hacking, uh, by all means, by all means visit our website, hope.net and, um, look at the call for participation. 
It'll give you all the instructions on how to submit your, um, uh, your, your talk proposal. 
The address speakers at hope.net is our email address for that. 
Uh, and, um, again, February 28th, that is the deadline to, uh, send in the initial batch. 
And what we'll be doing is accepting talks from that initial batch and publicizing that in the next month, uh, we'll still be accepting talks after that, but if you want to, um, confirm, if you want to make plans, this is the best way to do it. 
So February 28th is a deadline for that. 
We have a letter from, uh, Alan, uh, who asks us, uh, well, he says up until this year, the newest car I ever drove was a 2000 Civic, uh, very analog. 
And now I have a 2008 Acura and it bleeps and blinks at me all day for all kinds of reasons. 
And it drives me crazy. 
I can hear that. 
Uh, I'd love to look into disabling some of these quote unquote features on the dashboard screen, but I'm afraid the electronics are too complicated for me to mess with. 
I don't want to disable something that's a safety hazard. 
On the other hand, it's only a 2008 computer in there. 
It can't be that complicated. 
Can it? 
I'm really into right to repair discussions, both on your show and in general. 
And I think we should be able to modify the things we own, obviously, as long as it's safe. 
And then it hit me. 
I hear you all talking about the new location for hope, how it's going to be great because of all the space. 
So can I make a request for someone to bring an actual car or lots of cars to the location and show us how to make changes? 
There's actually room for something like this to happen now at hope, right? 
It's just an idea. 
I'm sure there'll be plenty of crazy new stuff going on regardless. 
I'm looking forward to it. 
Well, Alan, it's all a question of what people bring to the conference as far as ideas, as far as energy. 
And if people want to do this, yes, we can do this. 
We can do all kinds of things. 
There is nothing that I've heard yet that we can't do. 
All it takes is enthusiasm. 
And that's why it's so important to spread the word about this. 
I know everyone has been through hell the past few years and there's just this spirit. 
I see it everywhere of kind of defeatism that we've been crushed over the last couple of years. 
It's hard to stand back up and to go back outside and to do something and to start organized. 
But we have to do this. 
We have to make this and other events something that happened and inspire us for the future. 
That is how we get past this. 
That's how we survive. 
So the answer is, yeah, this is a great idea. 
This is something I would love to see. 
And we need people to come forward and help not only in this, but in all aspects of the conference. 
Again, on the webpage, hope.net, you'll see information on how to do that. 
We are asking for volunteers. 
We need a lot of volunteers if we're going to pull this off because we have more space to deal with, more buildings to manage. 
Volunteers at hope.net is our email address for that. 
But go to the website. 
Read all about the conference. 
And hopefully every week we'll have more things to update. 
We'll have more things to get excited about. 
This is a great idea. 
This is something I'm excited about. 
I can see it happening. 
Yeah. 
That idea is something that's crossed our mind. 
And a couple of years ago, before 2020, we went to a car show down in Atco, New Jersey in the middle of the summer. 
Oh, yeah. 
And just seeing all the car clubs and stuff, I mean, if we opened up and made space for this, I could see that really taking off. 
There was a lot of interest groups out there for that. 
Who knows what direction it would take? 
But we should think about, yeah, ways to show different technologies, different platforms, different hacking, modifications, people that are good at that kind of... 
Here's the thing. 
You can't just say, let's do this, guys, make it happen. 
The way these things work, if you have an idea, come forward and help make it happen. 
I'm not picking on Alan here. 
I'm saying, in general, we get a lot of ideas, but they only come to fruition if people come forward with ideas and plans and want to put in a little bit of work to make it happen. 
Because there's nothing more rewarding than having your idea come to fruition. 
Yeah. 
For instance, if you have a car club or a hacking group that meets, you could spend a couple weekends planning on how to get other clubs interested. 
And we could help coordinate making that space happen. 
But it really comes from what other people find. 
Any final words, guys? 
Because we have to cut it off now and move off to YouTube. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Yeah. 
Just that Hope is a product of its community. 
And if you know anybody who can add to that, let them know. 
If you have ideas that, hey, my buddy here deals with X, Y, and Z, and they have some interesting ideas, tell your buddy. 
Send them to our site, hope.net. 
And most of all, if you have an idea yourself, check it out, hope.net, and consider submitting. 
Yes. 
Also, speaking of community, sorry to cut you off, but speaking of community, don't forget, next week is the first Friday of March. 
So we're preempted next week. 
Don't forget to look for your local 2600 meetings next Friday. 
All right. 
We're moving over to YouTube now, channel 2600. 
Or just click on the link on top of the 2600.com webpage. 
We'll be back here in two weeks on YouTube at eight o'clock in just a few minutes. 
Stay alert. 
Stay awake. 
Send us your email, OTH at 2600.com. 
Good night. 


And welcome, everybody, on YouTube as we begin Off the Hook Overtime, where we get to talk to our listeners as well as talk to ourselves, which is all we ever ask for. 
Skype people, you all make it in? 
We are here. 
We are here. 
And we are sounding good on YouTube. 
All right. 
Couldn't ask for more then. 
Couldn't ask for more. 
Kyle, you're here too, right? 
Yes. 
Okay, good, good. 
But any further things we want to wrap up or words that we couldn't say on the radio that we want to say now or before we take phone calls? 
Could we say DDoS secrets on the radio? 
Yes, we could. 
That's Twitter. 
And we did. 
We certainly did. 
Yippee-ki-yay. 
Can't say that on YouTube. 
All right. 
I think it's worth starting off where we left in the sense of... 
of people that are perhaps just joining, we ended the show by noting how important it was to submit your speaking proposal, your, you know, to respond to our CFP, our call for participation for hope this year. 
We've had a really great slew of submissions thus far. 
We think that, you know, after this bucket is decided, you know, we're looking for more and more submissions here. 
It's just, it's going to get harder and harder to get your talk submitted, especially if there's other talks on that same topic. 
So there really is a, I think, not a great deal of pressure, but it behooves you, if you want to speak at Hope this year, get your talk and your submission in now or as soon as possible, because, you know, we're going through this stuff really quickly and we want to hear from you. 
And it's up to you to make Hope what it is. 
And, you know, you've done a great job in the past. 
We want to see you there this year. 
And don't forget, this is going to be something that's in person. 
It's at a new location. 
There are just so many wonderful reasons why participation this year is more important than almost any other hope in the past. 
Well, it really is because, you know, we went through hell in 2018 and we wanted to do a better job in 2020. 
But then we found out the hotel was going to really screw us over by, I think, tripling the rate and just making it impossible for us to have the kind of conference we wanted to have. 
So that was crisis number one. 
And then we found a great place. 
We found St. 
John's University and we were thrilled and ready to go with that. 
But that was, you know, a big step. 
The first time in a new location, totally changing the way the conference is, a whole new chapter. 
And then 2020 hit COVID and we did everything online that year. 
So now here we are, 2022, four years after our last conference and ready to have our first in-person conference in that amount of time, but also our first conference in a brand new location. 
So it's really, if you want to be at the beginning of history, this is the place to be because it's so many different ways that we are doing things differently and so many ways that this is hugely important to the entire future of Hope conferences. 
If this one does well, it works out, it's a positive experience, something that people really enjoy, then basically the next one will be bigger and better and it'll keep going from there. 
We have so much space to expand into and it's just an amazing thing. 
And the odd irony of all this is that it didn't really matter what the hotel did. 
You know, they could have kept the price exactly the same. 
We wouldn't have had the conference in 2020 there because of COVID and we won't have the conference there in 2022 because the hotel's being torn down. 
So no matter what, it was decreed that we would not have another conference at Hotel Pennsylvania. 
So one way or another, that was not going to happen and everything got in the way. 
So here we are, our new chapter begins. 
We'd love for you to be a part of it. 
So visit hope.net and submit your talk ideas and let's make this happen. 
All right, we have a phone call. 
802, I guess I should give out the phone number though. 
Somehow they can give you the phone number before I give it out. 
802-321-HACK, 802-321-4225. 
So I'm going to guess that this person is somebody that we know. 
Yeah, I was going to ask, does that mean I have to reset anything and start over? 
That would be really rude. 
They obviously wanted to call, so they did. 
And welcome. 
Welcome to Off the Hook Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
It's Philip from Missouri. 
How are you? 
Good. 
How are you? 
I'm hanging in there. 
Trying not to flip out over to Ukraine stuff. 
You know what would be a good subject for hope though? 
It's like trying to make hospitals more accessible. 
Like using something like Wi-Fi triangulation with an app to help people find a way around hospitals because, man, I get lost in these things nowadays. 
Yeah, it's easy to get lost in any big complex. 
But do you have any specific ideas on how to make that easier? 
Well, you know how GPS works on the phone, right? 
We're triangulates, right? 
Right. 
Well, you could do the same thing with Wi-Fi. 
And say you have to go to a certain floor and whatnot, you could just put in an app on the phone and just use the Wi-Fi to kind of point you in the right direction. 
Yeah, or maybe have like a vibration when you have to turn one way or the other or two for one direction. 
Yeah, something like that. 
You remember in Next Generation, the first episode where they were talking about the new ship and everything, they had like the lighted panels that showed you where to go. 
Something like that. 
Encounter at Farpoint? 
Huh? 
Encounter at Farpoint is what you're talking about. 
Yeah. 
I don't remember that part of it, but I believe you. 
Yeah, well, you know, they were showing off the ship and everything, and I think it was Friker who was like in the middle of the ship going, I don't know where I'm going. 
And like an incident and whatnot said, well, just ask the computer where you want to go and there'll be lights along the walls to show you where to go. 
Yeah, it's funny. 
I was actually in a hospital the other day, and I was in an elevator. 
I was trying to get in an elevator. 
They're intelligent elevators now. 
But I didn't know what that meant. 
And I was pressing what looked like a button, but all it was was a light. 
And I couldn't figure out how do I get this intelligent elevator to listen to me. 
Apparently, what you're supposed to do is find a little LED screen and press your destination. 
And then when you press the destination, it tells you what elevator will arrive. 
But then the elevator doesn't arrive, not right away anyway. 
It knows it's going to arrive at some point. 
But I was waiting 45 seconds for that door to open. 
Other doors were opening, but I was told that's my door. 
I have to wait for that one. 
I don't think it was more intelligent. 
It took a lot longer to get to where I was going, and I was confused. 
And also, I could have gotten off at any other floor, too, while I was in that elevator. 
This is going to physically stop me from getting off. 
What was wrong with buttons? 
What's wrong with pressing a damn button to say what floor you want to go to in an elevator? 
That system worked. 
I'll sit down now. 
Yeah. 
It just seems like people just, I mean, you could do this with Bluetooth, too. 
It's like, you know, say you need to go to a certain office, you could just use Bluetooth to, like, check in and everything without having to do the thing with the person at the front, right? 
Like, make sure it's your right spot and everything. 
I don't know. 
It's just, I don't know. 
Well, why are you guys thinking about, like, the right wing just, like, going pro-Putin and everything in the last few days? 
Well, because Putin is right wing. 
I mean, you know, he's a lot closer to fascism than he is to left wing communism, that's for sure. 
And he's basically saying a lot of the things that the right wing in this country espouse. 
So it's a marriage made in hell. 
Yeah, there's sort of birds of a feather at this point. 
What do you guys in Skyplan think? 
Oh, it's really fascinating to watch because, of course, all of this is doing a great job of pushing the things like the January 6th Investigation Committee and that off of our headlines. 
So no one's paying attention to that anymore in this country because, of course, there's really interesting things going on on the world stage. 
And I'm not saying, like, Putin went ahead and invaded the Ukraine or went ahead and invaded Ukraine so, you know, just so our newspapers would be talking about something different. 
But, you know, it does - everything affects each other in this media environment we've got. 
And it's interesting to watch the patterns in these things. 
I think there's also something really interesting. 
Hang on. 
Let Gila speak. 
Go ahead. 
Thank you. 
Oh, I'm sorry. 
It was funny. 
I was - oh, sorry, caller. 
I was in - I had an appointment this afternoon and I heard music and they were playing Africa, Toto's Africa on the oldies station. 
Not again. 
And it made me think - it made me think about 40 years ago and how interesting it is that Republicans are lining up to support Russia and what a turnaround that is from the time of the Cold War. 
And how the idea of any American politician supporting Russia just - things are so radically different and it's fascinating. 
Well, they haven't really - I want to say they haven't picked a lane yet. 
But no, they haven't - they haven't picked a direction yet. 
I don't know what way they're going because, you know, half the time I hear them basically making excuses for Putin. 
The other half I'm hearing them saying that Biden is letting this happen and that it's all his fault and that Putin is getting away with all kinds of things. 
They don't seem to agree with each other. 
They certainly don't agree with anything that's going on that Biden does, but I don't think they really know which side is politically expedient for them. 
And that's the problem is that that's what they're thinking of first. 
They're not thinking about what's right. 
They're not thinking about what they should be standing for. 
They're thinking about how can we make this benefit our political platform. 
And there's no easy answer to that. 
So they're going to screw it up. 
And it's kind of funny but very sad to see that happening. 
Well, also today, two prosecutors quit the Trump trial. 
I heard about that. 
I'm a little confused as to what's going on there. 
I just heard that there's a chance that nothing will happen now, which really, guys? 
After all this, what is going on? 
That's why I'm not understanding, too. 
I wonder if they're bailing because he didn't really find anything to stick to him. 
But if you don't have anything to stick to him, why go through all this mess? 
No, they have a lot to stick to him. 
Alex, you're in the legal profession. 
Did you have something to do with this? 
No, I did not. 
And frankly, I was not aware of this story. 
So I didn't want to dive into it too much. 
But I will say, generally, when prosecutors resign, there is some kind of ethical issue that could explain why. 
Well, they may disagree with a certain decision. 
It may have to deal with the manner in which things are being dealt. 
Or it could be something completely different. 
You know, there are any number of reasons why things could change. 
And prosecutors leave those types of roles and go into private practice really frequently. 
So it could be something as simple as a couple of people from the same office, the same team, getting an offer somewhere and it being too good for them to refuse. 
So hard to say. 
Well, what I heard at the deli was that there was, I think, a DA above them who recently, the previous DA left, was replaced with another one. 
Am I saying this right, Alex? 
They work under a DA? 
The prosecutors? 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
Well, are we talking about a U.S. attorney's office or are we talking about a state care? 
We're talking about state care. 
It's in New York. 
Manhattan. 
Manhattan, yeah. 
Manhattan. 
That's okay. 
I thought we were talking about it. 
Sorry. 
I thought we were talking about it. 
There are a lot of cases, I know. 
But do I have it generally right? 
There's a DA. 
Okay. 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
So this DA, let me at least get this out. 
This DA stepped down or was replaced. 
And the DA that replaced him was expressing doubt about whether or not the case should continue. 
And these two guys quit at that point. 
Or two people quit. 
Rob, you're nodding your head. 
Is that what you heard, too, at your deli? 
That describes it pretty well. 
Yeah. 
My deli agrees. 
So the cover-up squad came in and the people there are like, no, they're covering up this thing. 
They're going to make it go away because, you know, the Stooges were moved in. 
It tells me that these prosecutors are so frustrated that all our work is going to go for nothing because this new guy doesn't believe in the case. 
Yeah, it's something like that. 
That they just said, no, no way. 
I'm not going to be a part of that. 
That's what it appears at this point. 
I know nothing beyond what I heard when I was getting my sandwich. 
Okay. 
Caller, anything else? 
Um, you know what I'd like to see? 
You know, the State of the Union is coming up, right? 
I'd like to see some people, like, just show up outside the Capitol to, like, you know, just protest for our rights. 
Okay, yeah, I think you're going to get your wish because, as we speak, a convoy is forming of American truckers that plan on doing just that outside the State of the Union next Tuesday. 
I just want to... 
Oh, my God. 
Yeah. 
I want to add... 
Careful what you wish for. 
I've been listening to the Intercepts and whatnot on the channel. 
I'm sorry, say again? 
And, uh, I don't know if these guys are the organizers or what, but one dude is, like, from Wisconsin and talking about Trudeau, and it's like, what do you got to do with Trudeau, man? 
You're from Wisconsin. 
Well, the Canadians are talking about Trump, and there's a lot of crossover, for sure. 
Go ahead, Kyle. 
Speaking of that, one other thing regarding some of the cases, his accounting firm fired him. 
There was that story a couple weeks ago. 
Right. 
Also very interesting. 
Is that the term? 
They fired Trump? 
You can do that? 
They fired him as a client, essentially, and basically, like, a decade of his financial reporting was called into question as a result. 
Yeah, but what does that mean? 
Does that mean that nobody's going to pay any attention to it, or does that mean that someone's going to be held liable for lying? 
Because it sounds like they're just saying, oh, just don't look at it. 
And no, I think everybody should look at it. 
I'm sorry. 
Yeah, I think that maybe, um, looked at in, in, as in, for its inaccuracies as, um, more like exhibit A instead of, uh, some sort of, uh, security on a credit line or something. 
I mean, it's going to be, I think, less important for, for business dealings. 
Well, I just want consequences. 
I want to see punishment, you know, handed out. 
I don't want to see anything held back. 
It's all I want. 
You know, it's not asking for much. 
It's the American dream. 
Go ahead, caller. 
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm thinking it's just a way for the accounting firm to cover their own butts, cause they probably knew what was going on. 
That's what it sounds like to me. 
That's the way I see it. 
It's like, oh, well, all this stuff we like to testify for him and, you know, cause you're doing this under oath anyway, when you signed a paper for a tax return, right? 
You're sort of doing it under oath. 
Yeah. 
I mean, the crime was committed, so, uh, I don't think they can just say, oh yeah, nevermind. 
No, you did it already. 
They were probably paid handsomely to, uh, to orchestrate his crimes for him, you know, legally. 
Right. 
He might've even paid them a lot or something. 
All right. 
Let's not talk about Trump anymore. 
I'm getting kind of sick of this. 
Forget that. 
Okay. 
Caller final, final word. 
And then we're going to move on to another call. 
Well, um, you know, just trying to sit here and relax, you know, got some, got some jazz on. 
Oh, cool. 
Yeah. 
I heard it in the background. 
Wait, wait, hold on. 
People out there. 
But how do you listen to us if you've got jazz on? 
How do you listen to, uh. 
Well, I got it on my TV and I got you on the. 
Computer. 
All right. 
As long as you can hear us, I guess. 
I used to do that all the time when I listened to the show. 
Just mix music with the words. 
I know it's kind of offensive. 
What if we were playing music? 
Then it would be even more music and that would be my crazy reality. 
But that's not how we intended it to sound, Kyle. 
It's not. 
You're not listening to it on the manner in which it was. 
Once it goes out. 
We'll talk about this afterwards. 
When it's on my wires. 
We'll talk about this afterwards. 
I get to do it. 
These stories. 
Carla, it was great hearing from you again and we hope to speak to you in a couple of weeks. 
Yep. 
Take care. 
Well, you have a good one and just everybody keeps sexy out there, I guess. 
All right. 
And just try to think happy thoughts. 
Oh, we do. 
I don't know what else to do. 
I mean. 
Uh-huh. 
That's what we've been doing. 
We might get nuked in the next week for all I know. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
I don't know where it's going to come from. 
But thank you for calling and thanks for being out there. 
That was pleasant. 
Every show is put together meticulously with all sorts of different... 
I mean, even the intros are rough sometimes. 
There's a certain chemistry there. 
You can't mess with it. 
All right. 
802-321-4225. 
802-321-HACK is our telephone number. 
We'd like to hear from other callers, other listeners out there if they have something to say to contribute. 
And you guys in Skyplan, of course, can step in anytime you want. 
It's a little rough sometimes with the phone and Skype. 
Did you hear about our eBay auction on our Instagram account? 
We did a screenshot of the auction. 
It's not funny. 
That's how we're promoting. 
It's not allowed on Instagram. 
This is super exclusive. 
Probably not allowed on eBay either. 
Rare warehouse merch. 
It could have been. 
It could have been there. 
You could have seen all sorts of things on Instagram. 
But you'll never know, will you? 
Because we have numbers in our name. 
Wow. 
What an injustice. 
Okay. 
We have a phone call? 
Good evening. 
You're on Off the Hook Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
Good evening from a troubled time zone. 
Wow. 
This is a voice we have not heard in a while. 
Bobson from Bulgaria. 
And Bulgaria is right near Ukraine. 
Well, it's not really near Ukraine, but it's closer than we are for sure. 
What are you guys going through over there? 
What are you hearing? 
Well, I haven't been listening to the TVs and all that, but it sounds unpleasant from what I hear. 
Tell us you know something of what's going on over there with Ukraine and Russia. 
Well, I wish I could. 
But, well, the two have a lot of history between them. 
So, that could go one way or another. 
Yes. 
But you are aware of Putin invading or about to invade Ukraine. 
You have heard whispers of that, I assume. 
Well, yeah. 
Okay, good. 
That's all we ask. 
That's good. 
Okay. 
Just wanted to make sure you weren't completely oblivious to the situation. 
Well, no. 
I should point out it's about 3 in the morning over there in Bulgaria. 
Is that correct? 
Standard disclaimer. 
Well, yeah. 
A bit after 3 a.m. 
A bit after 3 a.m. 
Okay. 
We're sorry to wake you up at this hour, even though you called us, but there's no way we can do it differently that I can think of. 
What else is on your mind? 
Yes. 
Well, hmm. 
These are called bobs and pauses, by the way. 
They're copyrighted, so you can't just use them. 
Oh, are they now? 
Yeah, yeah. 
They're special. 
They're still having trouble figuring out the situation between Russia and Ukraine, which is a bit... 
Are we still talking about that? 
The situation between Russia and the Ukraine is a bit troublesome, quite a bit troublesome. 
Well, let me ask you, Bobson, you know, in Bulgaria, are you at all concerned that Russia might move closer to Bulgaria or into Bulgaria at some point? 
Even though Bulgaria was never part of the Soviet Union, is this something that you or other people there are worried about? 
Well, I haven't heard anyone express such worries, and I don't think it makes sense from the situation or what I know of it. 
Are you aware of any statement by your government on their position on what's going on? 
Well, not as such, no. 
Well, I've heard some people express disagreement to the Russian movement. 
Well, I'm not promising anything, but, oh well. 
Well, they may contact you, after hearing this. 
Oh. 
Well, maybe. 
I don't know. 
So, how did you do in the Winter Olympics, Bulgaria? 
Were they in the Winter Olympics? 
I think so. 
Okay. 
But I don't think we got much of anything in terms of medals as such. 
It's not about the medals. 
It's about showing up. 
It's about participating. 
It's about breathing in that cold Chinese winter air with the artificial snow. 
Well, I didn't make it to China for the Olympics. 
No, you didn't. 
Right. 
So, I don't know about the air. 
Yeah. 
It's going to be in Italy next time. 
But from what I saw on TV, it looked snowy enough to... 
Participate in winter sports. 
Yeah. 
It was something. 
It's over now. 
Paralympics are starting soon. 
And I don't know if you heard our last couple of shows. 
We actually were hearing from somebody in Beijing who was calling us, who was part of the media operation. 
That was fascinating. 
Cool. 
Yeah, it's quite an operation to cover and really great behind-the-scenes discussion and observations. 
Alex, you are either measuring the wind with your finger or you wish to speak. 
Indeed. 
Yeah. 
Oh, should I... 
Question for you. 
Oh, boy. 
Here it comes. 
That's unrelated to groceries. 
Bulgarian groceries again? 
Unrelated to groceries this time. 
I can get onto that subject next, though. 
But it does seem like you might be a little too tired to discuss the intricacies of the various wafer cookies and things that I did, in fact, purchase last week, the voyeurot. 
But moving on, speaking of Olympics in Bulgaria, I remember reading something a while ago that I think it was in the 90s. 
Bulgaria made a bid to host the Olympics and Bulgaria made a bid to host the Olympics and build some kind of building near the Black Sea that is now completely abandoned and overgrown with vegetation and kind of apocalyptic looking. 
Have you ever heard of something like this? 
Well, I know we had a bid in the 1980s to host the Winter Olympics, but I don't know that it has anything to do with the Black Sea site. 
And why would there be an abandoned building there if they didn't get the Olympics? 
Why would they build the building? 
That I don't understand. 
Yeah. 
I'm kind of curious about that. 
Well, if I knew which building you're speaking of, I may have. 
I may be able to. 
Okay. 
I'm looking this up. 
Read up on it. 
Something apparently that's vaguely labeled as a gymnastics hall on the Black Sea that was part of a bid for the Olympics. 
It might have been to demonstrate the capacity to build out a particular site. 
But with the bid having fallen through, it seems like this entire arena has now fallen into disrepair and is overgrown by vegetation. 
It looks really kind of like an interesting site to visit, I have to say. 
Guy calls from Bulgaria and all you have to say is talk about abandoned buildings in his country. 
If you ever find your way over here, we can go visit the site. 
Yeah. 
Have you ever been to the Black Sea, Bobson? 
Yeah. 
How would you describe it for people who have never been there? 
The Black Sea? 
Hmm. 
Is it different from other seas? 
Well, it's not as large as the ocean, so it's not as cold to be in it in the summer. 
Other than that, there's beaches on the side of it. 
Okay. 
Makes sense. 
Or there were. 
Where would they go? 
Yeah. 
Well, no, there's the thing about beaches is they need sand coverage. 
And that's too malleable, I think, in terms of people digging up the sand to use it for whatever. 
Wait, are people stealing the sand off of your beaches? 
Is that what you're saying? 
Well, I've seen some beaches missing a lot of sand with respect to what they used to have in terms of... 
People don't steal the beaches, don't steal the sand from the... 
You'll have nothing. 
You'll just have land, then water. 
That's not exciting. 
No, you need the sand. 
Yeah, I know. 
The sand is serving a purpose. 
It's there for a reason. 
We can't put it back, I don't think. 
Well, I'd like to see... 
Well, not unless you dig it from the concrete that it's used for from water here. 
Uh-huh. 
Sand is... 
Beach sand is very good for concrete mixing or what have you. 
Well, they could steal it from the desert, then. 
You know? 
There's a lot more space. 
It's... 
The desert beach is different. 
The desert sand is different. 
I'm sure it is, but maybe it's better. 
Have we ever tried? 
I don't know much about it, but I hear that the sea sand has its advantages when mixing things with it. 
Or because of shape and size and stuff like that. 
The things we discuss when you call, it's unbelievable. 
But let me just ask you one more question about the Black Sea. 
Is there a surf? 
Are there waves? 
Well, yes, there are waves, depending on the weather. 
I mean, sometimes it gets stormy. 
Are there Black Sea surfers? 
Yes, there are. 
Oh, okay. 
Now we're getting somewhere. 
Interesting. 
So there's probably a whole Black Sea surfer culture with the equivalent of their beach boys and, you know, music and things like that. 
Interested in learning more about this? 
Well, I don't know about the music, but yes, I know that there are people who do surf here with... 
It's mostly windsurfing, from what I've seen. 
Now, windsurfing doesn't... 
I mean, it's a different thing. 
It's got to be water surfing with surfboards and all that kind of thing. 
Oh, you mean windless? 
You mean the surfing of... 
Yeah, surfing USA, except Bulgaria, not USA. 
That kind of thing. 
Well, I don't think the water is agreeable to the windless... 
I got my hopes up. 
Okay, well, we're going to do more investigation into this. 
Skype guys, you got any more questions for Bobson? 
We're going to move on to another call. 
No, just want to put out there that, you know, it wasn't me that stole the sand from the beach. 
I am completely innocent. 
In fact, I don't like sand. 
It's coarse and rough and irritating. 
It gets everywhere. 
But there's also, like, natural erosion is a thing. 
So it might not be a person. 
Except people cause an erosion. 
Well, the scale of it is a bit disagreeable, I think. 
I mean, seeing how much is being dug up and... 
I wish you were right, but I'm not sure of it. 
We promise we will look into this and find out more. 
Alex, did you have any grocery-related questions for Bobson? 
Well, I do. 
You know, I did get some Bulgarian cookies last week in anticipation of you calling then. 
And I have to say, I was so disappointed that you didn't call it last week. 
And I think I have forgotten the name of the cookies, nor did I get two extra boxes to send over to the crew out on Long Island. 
Yeah, we didn't get anything. 
We were looking every day, and we didn't get a thing. 
Well, you know, get used to disappointment. 
That's all I have to say. 
Oh, I am. 
I'm very used to it. 
The future, if nothing else. 
But, yeah, I think the cookies were called something like the voyeurat. 
Voyeurat? 
Does that sound familiar? 
Do you have any questions here? 
Nope. 
Okay. 
Well, concise answer. 
In any event, the Bulgarian people at the Bulgarian grocery store were very keen on me getting and trying these cookies and explaining to me that they were fantastic. 
They were very, very good. 
I have to say, there are lots of different types of wafer cookies that they have in this particular grocery store. 
And I'm wondering if that's something that's peculiar to Bulgaria, or perhaps it's just something that ships easily to the United States. 
Well, in terms of shipping easily, it doesn't just ship easily to large distances. 
It also ships easily in general. 
So, yeah, it may be part of why people manufacture them, you know, with the ease of getting to market and such, wherever that may be. 
Yeah. 
They also, unfortunately, don't have any hot foods available. 
So, I couldn't, you know, try the delicacy that you had referred to me, the name of which escapes me, but it's written forever in my notebook. 
Hang on. 
Hang on. 
A grocery store, you're saying they don't sell anything that you can heat later, nothing hot? 
Or just nothing that's hot there, which would be odd? 
Well, I mean, they do have things that are frozen, and cheeses and things like that, but they don't sell any hot food. 
So, nothing that they make themselves as a dish that you can buy. 
Okay. 
Yeah. 
But I think what I think I would love to do, Bobson, would be to ask one of the women that works there. 
And I think it's a married couple that runs the place, runs this joint. 
And, you know, if perhaps one day when we get out of this pandemic, if she could come over and cook a meal for us, cook an authentic Bulgarian meal. 
And when we do this, I have this idea in my head, you know, maybe this is something that will happen this summer, perhaps around the 4th of July or something. 
I'll invite all of our colleagues from Long Island, from Queens, over to taste these delicacies, and then we can all report back in overtime about our thoughts. 
So, wait, you want this Bulgarian woman who works in a grocery store to come over to your house and cook Bulgarian food? 
Why don't we just go to her house? 
Why are we going to your house? 
Well, I would invite her here to do it and ask if they could cater something like this. 
I think that would be, you know, really, really great. 
Okay. 
That's different. 
Catering, that might be something they'd be interested in. 
Yeah. 
It could be really interesting. 
The, you know, I just don't know if, you know, if you would be welcome in their home. 
That's the real issue. 
Who, Bobson or me? 
You. 
What would I do? 
I don't know if you would behave yourself in, you know, an appropriate manner. 
Excuse me. 
I've been to Bulgaria. 
I know the Bulgarian ways. 
You know. 
Oh, you do. 
Okay. 
I know what not to do. 
That's what I'm afraid of. 
Yeah. 
Entirely. 
Yeah. 
But maybe, who knows, maybe I would love to go over to her house. 
And, you know, maybe she doesn't even have to cook something anew. 
Perhaps she could just heat up some leftovers for us. 
Can you imagine the horror if, by chance, this person just happens to be randomly listening to podcasts and is tuning in to Channel 2600 right now, recognizes her Bulgarian grocery store being talked about, and then hearing this strange voice saying that he hopes that she will come over to his house and cook food for him without any kind of conversation that they've had about this. 
And just realizing, oh, my God, they're talking about me. 
Yeah. 
I mean, I would be honored if the roles were reversed here. 
I think it would be absolutely fantastic. 
You know. 
Hey, look, maybe there's a hope talk that comes out of this. 
There might be a headline that comes out of this, but we'll just have to table that for later. 
Bobson, any final words from you? 
Well, I was hoping to wait out for a few years for my final words. 
But for tonight, I hope that the situation in this time zone keeps improving as opposed to the certain more Eastern folks seeing it differently. 
Well, that's the second time you've made reference to a time zone. 
So are you in the same time zone as Ukraine? 
As Kiev, yes. 
As Kiev, right. 
Because Ukraine is, I guess they're in two different time zones. 
They may have more than one time zone to deal with, yes. 
How far away are you actually from Ukraine? 
Well, it's on the other side of Romania. 
You know, that doesn't help us at all. 
Well, north of Bulgaria is Romania, and northeast from Romania is to Ukraine. 
But how far is that? 
Well, I've traveled to Kiev by train a few years ago and got back by similar train. 
I used to like going to Ukraine. 
Yeah. 
We actually did the whole thing of going to, we were in Moldova, and we had the bright idea to cut through Ukraine to get back into Poland. 
But when we got to Kiev, and I still say Kiev, they informed us that there were no trains until the next week that we could take to Poland. 
So we decided to go to the very same town or city that the whole American embassy moved to of Lviv. 
Lviv. 
Lviv. 
Lviv, and we went there, which is right next to Poland. 
And then the next day, we just hopped on a tiny train that took us to Poland, and we got out of the country that way. 
So I guess maybe we inspired them. 
I like the train station there, too. 
I remember just the night we came in, how dark it was, how busy it was. 
I think there was like a performing group, like a bunch of students with instruments or something coming back from something or going somewhere. 
And then the smoke in the station is all from the coal for the water heaters and the trains themselves. 
They, I think, are electric, but each car is heated with coal or something. 
And it was just so, it felt like I was going, I was in like a parallel time or something. 
It was just felt very old. 
And I remember buying some soft drinks and some stuff that this woman like microwaved, like a pastry or something. 
Yes. 
And getting on our train eventually. 
But it was really dark, I think, when we were leaving that morning. 
And that's what I'm remembering, just walking into this very, very old train station with the rail cars. 
The rail cars, I have a series of photos. 
I was able to capture the changing of the bogeys. 
That was a different trip to the Belarusian border. 
That's Ukraine to Belarus. 
Yeah, between Belarus and Poland, they do that. 
Yep. 
Yep. 
Yeah. 
It's fascinating. 
And probably between Romania and Ukraine, I would imagine. 
Yeah, I think so. 
They would probably have the same system. 
Do you remember that, Bobson, when you took the train? 
Did they change the bogeys at some point? 
Well, that's an old Russian Empire thing. 
What they did is, when they did the Imperial of the Time Railroad, the Russians did it a bit wider. 
Right. 
So no one could invade. 
And the reason they did that is to prevent foreign armies traveling by train into the country in the 1800s. 
And in case people are wondering, the same track gauge is used in Ukraine and in Russia, so they won't have that trouble going into Ukraine, because it was indeed part of the Soviet Union when they did this. 
So they have the same track gauge. 
But if you were trying to invade... 
Well, it was part of the Russian Empire back then, but yes. 
The train tracks were never changed in the interim. 
Yeah. 
The gauge was never changed. 
Nor would they be. 
They wouldn't be. 
Yeah. 
Well, at this time, you're talking about hundreds of thousands of miles of railroad that would need to be exchanged if someone decided to adjust to prevent this. 
The surroundings they might prefer to be in. 
But when you took the train to Kiev, do you remember the point where they did that to the train cars? 
They lifted them up into the air and they changed the wheels underneath them so they'd fit the new tracks? 
Yes, I do. 
That's a lot. 
I recommend that for everybody. 
It happened just after Romania was over with, as the train was passing. 
Meaning after you got out of Romania. 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
I see what you meant. 
Yes. 
All right. 
Okay. 
Well, Bobson, it's great talking to you as always. 
And we look forward to next time. 
And we look forward to seeing you at some point. 
Well, same here. 
Have a great evening, everybody. 
Thanks for the show. 
Yeah. 
Keep listening and call back. 
We'd love to hear your dispatch from there. 
Oh, well. 
I'm sure the people on Skype land mean to say goodnight, too. 
Yeah. 
Goodnight, Bobson. 
Goodnight, Bobson. 
There they are. 
Okay. 
Had to nudge them a little. 
All right. 
We'll talk to you again. 
Take care. 
Later. 
I always feel so energized after talking to Bobson. 
It's almost more than I can bear. 
Well, you know, the guy is dedicated, if nothing else. 
I have to say, I mean, I appreciate his willingness. 
He has to stay up to all hours of the evening. 
Yeah, Alex, I'll call you at 3.30 in the morning. 
We'll see how energized you are when somebody from Bulgaria wants you to call them, you know? 
I would love to. 
Yeah. 
You know, unfortunately, my lifestyle does involve getting up in the middle of the night and making phone calls to various places around the globe. 
Everything is a choice. 
I find it difficult to be awake at this hour to talk to you guys, and I'm in this time zone. 
So, okay. 
Our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-4225. 
And, of course, that spells hack. 
And if you're out there, you have something to say to us. 
It's our last show in a couple of weeks. 
So, we'd love to hear from you. 
Any ideas for the Hope Conference or experiences with hacking or with technology? 
Thoughts on what's going on in any part of the world or stories or questions or complaints? 
That's what the phone line is for, 802-321-4225. 
While we're waiting for a phone call, Emanuel, I know this story would affect you. 
And so, I was wondering if you have any feelings already about the 363 overlay that's oncoming. 
That's the new Nassau County area code, right? 
Absolutely. 
They're overlaying it over what's now 516. 
Yeah, those swine, they took our area code from Suffolk County. 
We used to be 516. 
And now we're 631. 
And, you know, we have an overlay, too, but I don't remember what it was. 
I don't know what our second area code in Suffolk County is. 
So, that's 363, though. 
That's a better one than whatever we got. 
I know that. 
I think Nassau County is definitely getting preferential treatment. 
That's 934 is the other one in Suffolk. 
Well, you know your area codes, don't you? 
All right. 
Then name all the New York City metropolitan area codes, please. 
212-718-917-646. 
Yeah, I got started for you. 
Where are the rest? 
I could name them, but that would be gauche. 
They already have names. 
Oh, wow. 
Okay. 
All right. 
Fine. 
Alex, any input on area codes or thoughts on them? 
I think you named all there, didn't you? 
No, I did not. 
There are others. 
You did? 
Yeah, 929. 
There's another one, see? 
929. 
Oh, God. 
Yeah, all these new area codes, you know, I don't like them. 
3-4-7. 
Look, I've named them all so far. 
I think there's one other. 
I think there's one other. 
So maybe somebody can look that up. 
Well, how about this? 
How about you name all of the exchanges within 2-1-2? 
Okay, that doesn't make any sense because pretty much all the exchanges are exchanges. 
Everything that doesn't begin with a 0 or a 1. 
That sounds like a cop-out to me. 
No, that sounds like the right answer to me. 
We have a phone call. 
Good evening. 
You're on Off the Hook Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
Hi, it's Bob from Minneapolis. 
Had a couple of technical things, and just one thing of gratitude that we're going to have the whole conference. 
I will be there. 
Awesome. 
And greetings to 612 area code. 
I am. 
Yeah, that's the coveted area code in my area. 
So it's actually Minneapolis proper. 
So if you have the 612 area code, you're kind of golden. 
But the two technical things I wanted to talk about was, you know, Alex talking about what I call deepfakes. 
He had some synthetic term. 
But I think if you use, you know, like deepfakes, because to me, that's what they really are. 
Depending on the nature of the deepfake, there is no, you know, quote-unquote, antivirus to kind of detect them. 
There is, for like government documents, really simple documents. 
But when you get into videos or other sorts of pictures, it really requires a human being to be able to look at it. 
So the social media companies are investing millions of dollars in this, and they're hiring AI people like MAD to try and fix this problem, because they know that if it gets out of control, then the government's going to step in, and that's the last thing that they want. 
And then my last comment is that Amazon recently opened up the recordings that they have of people off of Alexa. 
But it's tied to your account, so it's not like wide open. 
But you can log in, and you can request what Alexa has picked up. 
They'll actually give you all of your data. 
The most interesting, for me, was the Alexa recordings. 
And there is no distinction between, you know, voices in the house, you know, in the family. 
It picks up children. 
It picks up people saying all kinds of weird things. 
I mean, I find that, you know, deeply disturbing. 
But there was also a great comedic value that was mixed in there from, you know, from recordings from my household anyway. 
But apparently, they're never deleted. 
And I don't know why Amazon's starting to open up, unless it's my theory about, you know, being regulated. 
You know, so I find that to be, you know, very interesting. 
But those are my two comments. 
Alex, I think that was directed at you. 
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not sure what the question was. 
Was that the fact that they aren't deleting these particular recordings? 
You know, is that a common practice? 
Well, no, they were both just comments. 
And I was just addressing, you know, Alex's comment about being able to detect, you know, deep fakes. 
That if he stated correctly, you know, it's not to a place where it's automated. 
So a human would have to look at it to be able to make that determination. 
And at that point, you've opened up the disinformation can of worms that quickly gets out of control. 
But there really wasn't - I was just contributing to the conversation. 
There wasn't really a question in there. 
I see. 
It's interesting, you know - go ahead, Alex. 
Yeah, I think it's such an interesting space at the moment because it does seem like the manipulation of these types of videos or even audio files, right? 
I mean, there are deep fakes that are completely audio-based as well. 
And apparently - I always wonder about whether or not this is true or not, that there was an incident a few years ago, in fact, which also leads me to believe maybe the technology - maybe this is fake and I'm not sure. 
But in the context of a cyber liability claim is how this came up. 
But it was an incident of a deep fake that - or I'm sorry, an audio fake. 
So a deep fake audio image that was used in the context of a business email compromise scam. 
So that an audio recording, I believe it was of a German CEO of perhaps a UK subsidiary - I might be getting the countries mixed up - was then played to an employee and instructed the employee to make some kind of payment. 
And the employee, hearing that audio fake, had then complied with the instructions and sent - I guess it was several million dollars - to an account that was controlled by the fraudsters who had generated the deep fake audio. 
And I always wonder about this too because it's very hard to generate this type of thing on the fly. 
It's got to be recorded in a sense and presented in a scenario or a situation where there aren't interactions with other human beings because there's just no way to do this. 
We don't have the computational power as I think right now to do this on the fly. 
So everything in a sense is limited by that. 
But we're going to be - but I think that the underlying technology that could detect this is similar to the technology that relates to the detection of steganography or the use of steganography. 
So it's the detection of small shifts and bits and bytes that you would ordinarily see in a pattern relative to an ordinary WAV file or an MP4 or something like that that can indicate that there's something wrong or there's something amiss. 
But it doesn't seem like it works really consistently at all. 
And I see Rob has got some input here. 
Well, the joy of these kind of systems from a, oh, my God, this is so insecure standpoint is that you don't always have to fool a human. 
And sometimes you're going through a phone and a human can't pick out the subtleties that would flag something as fake anyway. 
But you just have to fool a machine a lot of the time. 
And, you know, 30 some odd years ago, the film Sneakers came out and had somebody, like, splicing audio tape together to make that guy's audio greeting to get into his office. 
You know, my voice is my passport, verify me. 
And, you know, that was funny back then, but it still works like that. 
And in cases like where you could elect to have your bank account accept your voice saying some passphrase as security over the telephone to access your account, that's a computer listening to you. 
And it's still very easy to fool a computer. 
Like, take any of us on this show, for example. 
We've all got years and years and years of our recorded voices publicly available on the Internet for anybody to splice together us saying whatever they want. 
And so, like, none of us should have that sort of thing enabled on our bank accounts. 
And that sort of thing is only getting better. 
It also reminds me of the soundboard pranks that we used to do. 
Like, with soundboards back in the 90s, the 2000s, people used to make prank calls with, like, a screen full of Arnold Schwarzenegger clips of him saying things from his movies. 
And there were buttons to click all these different words. 
And you could call someone up and click the buttons. 
And they would believe that Arnold called them. 
And, you know, hilarity ensued. 
So these are all very old concepts. 
And they have not been sufficiently solved. 
Because as the ability to pick out the fakes gets better, the ability to create fakes gets better. 
And it's just machines fooling machines, I think, for the most part. 
Yeah, but, you know, no matter how good it sounds, there should be a common sense switch inside your head that says, there's no way Arnold Schwarzenegger is calling me. 
Is that asking too much? 
Maybe somebody really wants Arnold to call them. 
They're willing to believe. 
You know, caller, though, in reference to the whole Alexa business, you can, I learned this recently, at any time, I imagine you've had your Alexa's device occasionally just start saying something to you even though you never summoned her or him. 
And you can always say, Alexis, why did you do that? 
And she or he will explain the logic behind them responding to something that you didn't say. 
That's interesting. 
I wonder, because I only use it on the fire stick. 
Because I, well, I think that's how I, that's our entertainment source now, right? 
I mean, I don't have conventional cable, but I was very afraid from the beginning of the actual physical, you know, Alexa, you know, device. 
I forget the dots or whatever they're called. 
You know, and I understand that they have the physical switch, but I just, I'm very, I'm just trusting of Amazon. 
I actually, I can't say too much about this, but I actually worked there for a while. 
And some of the things that they do are very interesting. 
And that's probably, that's probably all I can say without getting into a lot of trouble. 
The fact that you're worried that you will get in trouble for even alluding to anything specific that you, from a place that you once worked, it sounds like you worked in like, like organized crime or something. 
It'd be great if, if you could, at the conference, maybe put a bag over your head or something and just give a talk as to some of these things. 
Cause we're all fascinated by them. 
Yeah, I, I will definitely, um, you know, consider that, um, you know, for sure. 
I mean, you know, you know, anonymity, I mean, you know, I trust the conference, but it's, you know, you know, anonymity and, and Amazon, I know they have a deep reach somehow. 
Yeah. 
They're good at finding people. 
Yes, they are. 
Any, anything, anything else from, from Minneapolis? 
I know. 
No, that was it. 
I just, I, I normally, uh, because the scheduling conflicts can't, um, um, you know, do the overtime thing. 
Um, I listened to the, uh, off the hook, um, on, uh, on podcast. 
So it was a great pleasure to hear the full two hours tonight, but I don't have any other comments. 
Glad you were able to call and, uh, look forward to, uh, to seeing you at home. 
Yeah. 
Coming in loud and clear from out there. 
Yep. 
All right. 
Stay warm. 
Awesome. 
All right. 
Yep. 
You too. 
Take care. 
There you go. 
Minneapolis. 
See, Bulgaria, Minneapolis, we're getting all the hotspots. 
All right. 
Um, go ahead. 
Who's, uh, who's, uh, Gila, go ahead. 
Okay. 
I was just going to say 651-952-763. 
Are you okay? 
Why are you spouting out numbers? 
Those are the other area codes for the Minneapolis, St. 
Paul. 
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 
Say them again. 
651-763-952. 
You know, I don't want to offend anybody and I really hope I don't, but those are the worst area codes I've ever heard. 
Those are terrible area codes. 
And they, all three of them are, are given to that state, that region. 
Somebody doesn't like them. 
Somebody in North American numbering plan does not like Minnesota. 
Seriously. 
I don't know that I disagree. 
I mean, look, 2-1-2. 
Okay. 
9-2-9, 7-1-8, 9-1-6. 
We've got, I mean, you know, 2-1-2 obviously is the best, but. 
I beg your pardon? 
They just, oh, that's not nice. 
2-0-6 in the house? 
Yeah, that's Seattle. 
What are your other areas out there? 
2-0-6 and. 
Oh, yeah. 
3-6-0. 
3-6-0. 
Yeah, that's not a bad one. 
2-5-3. 
2-5-3. 
2-5-1-2. 
2-5-1-2 is Austin, Texas. 
That's Texas. 
Texas. 
What are you trying to pull here, Kyle? 
Just checking. 
All right. 
I'm sure. 
5-1-2. 
Wow. 
Do we have a phone call? 
Yes. 
Okay. 
Good evening. 
You're on Off the Hook Overtime. 
Hi. 
How's it going? 
I just called in. 
I couldn't make out clearly what you were saying once we were connected on the phone, but I called in to give you the other New York City area code that you hadn't originally given me. 
You'll have no trouble understanding us on your fiber optic line as we are able to understand you crystal clear. 
Yes. 
Well, you left out 3-3-2. 
3-3-2? 
Never heard of that one. 
Where's that? 
That's Manhattan. 
3-3-2 is Manhattan? 
Yep. 
Since 2017. 
Can someone verify that? 
Team? 
Can someone go out and verify that? 
It's on Wikipedia. 
Yeah. 
You know, no offense. 
We believe you, but we have to have somebody in-house verify this information before we can confirm it. 
It's protocol. 
Yeah. 
We'll get flagged on YouTube. 
Yeah. 
All right. 
Rob? 
What do you got, Rob? 
What do you got? 
Aguila, go ahead. 
Yeah. 
No, we got it. 
Um, apparently the earliest date it could be, new, new codes could be activated. 
It was 2017. 
Yeah. 
This is confirmed. 
It's confirmed. 
Overlay 212-646-917. 
And 3-3-2. 
And 3-3-2. 
How did I never hear? 
That's a good area code. 
How did I never hear? 
It's, it's low numbers. 
Two of them are repeating. 
You're just on the top row of the touchtone dial. 
And if you have a rotary dial, it's easy as pie to dial that. 
3-3-2. 
It's almost as good as 2-1-2. 
I never heard of this one. 
Alex, you look, you look, you look completely perplexed. 
Well, is it really? 
Is that it's 2-1-2 when everybody knows that 2-1-2 is New York City and nobody knows that 3-3-2 is? 
Yeah, I think that's, that's exactly right. 
I don't think anybody knows that. 
I really don't. 
Alex, you look very, uh, stunned. 
I am. 
I, I never have seen a number in the 3-3-2 area code. 
I, I live in Manhattan. 
Okay. 
That's the challenge. 
Someone, someone find a phone number in, like, uh, an advertised phone number in 3-3-2. 
You need to, like, 3-3-2. 
Well, here's my question. 
I wonder, if you get an exchange in, in 3-3-2, we know of any exchange in 3-3-2. 
It would be interesting to call, uh, 3-3-2, whatever the exchange is, plus 9-9-0-1, and see if it, it goes to a switch that gives you all of the exchange information. 
I'm not sure that 9-9-0-1 is still something the phone company uses. 
9-9-0-1 would identify the switches. 
Right? 
I'm sorry? 
So, I think a lot of them are, still connect to a line. 
A lot of them still. 
It's not something they do going forward. 
Exactly. 
A lot of them still will give you a list of exchanges, which is probably outdated. 
But I don't think when they, you know, install a new exchange, they, they say, oh, let's make sure the 9-9-0-1 suffix is updated. 
Don't think they do that anymore. 
I wish they did, because it's an awesome system, as, as were many of the systems. 
Just calling a, uh... 
Okay. 
Alex is calling. 
What are you calling? 
You're calling random 3-3-2 numbers now? 
5-6-7, 5-6-3, 4-7-2, 2-4-4, 8-5-4, 4-1-9, and 2-1-8. 
We, we missed... 
You have the disabled DSO, serving exchanges, 5-8-9. 
Okay, you're calling out in Long Island, though. 
That's not, that's not New York City. 
Yeah, that, that was, that was the disabled DSO. 
In, in Long Island. 
So, yeah, I thought you were calling 3-3-2 or something. 
I don't know what a, uh, uh, does anybody know an exchange in 3-3-2? 
Well, okay, if I had to guess, I would say 2-2-2 would be the first exchange that would, that would be used. 
3-3-2, 2-2-2, 9-9-0-1. 
Try that, see what you get. 
Yeah, live phone hacking over, over YouTube here. 
Channel 2600. 
Please take the number and dial again. 
Or dial 6-1-1 for customers. 
Yeah, that one didn't work. 
Alex, try 2-0-9. 
Okay. 
Why would they give 2-0-9 out? 
That's, like, a non-standard exchange. 
I don't know. 
I'm looking at, I looked something up, and this is my favorite thing. 
The 3-3-2 area code is located in the state of New York, and according to Intellius data, covers roughly zero phone numbers. 
It's the largest city in this area code with a population of about zero. 
Uh-huh. 
See, this is, this, it kind of tracks with what I thought. 
Let's see what Alex is getting here. 
It's ringing. 
No kidding. 
It seems like that might be a valid exchange, though. 
So let's try 9970 and see if we can get a... 
9970 is the always busy suffix, so if... 
3-3-2-2-0-9-9-9-0-1. 
What in the world was that? 
That was a voicemail box at the end of 3-3-2-2-0-9-9-9-0-1. 
Interesting. 
Okay. 
All right. 
Well, you know, it's not connected to a switch. 
That's, you know. 
It would be hilarious, though, if that person put as their outgoing message a similar message about their telephone switch. 
Well, I think you have something to play with now, numbers surrounding that particular number, and maybe you can find a main number that will say what that is, and you can figure it out from there. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
There's a lot of exploring, I think, in the 3-3-2 area code. 
Look what you did, caller, just by telling us about this area code. 
Now we're obsessed with it. 
Okay. 
Now you have to find a real-life person who'll pick up. 
We're on it. 
We're working on that right now. 
In fact, Alex, if you leave a message on that voicemail box and ask them to call you back, then you can say, who are you? 
Where are you? 
How did you get this number? 
Et cetera. 
And learn a lot more. 
I'd have a lot more questions than that. 
And I'm sure they would have their series of questions as well for you and the authorities. 
Any other thoughts, caller, before we go? 
Not on anything that you've been discussing. 
Is the new fiber optic line working out okay? 
Yeah, I guess so. 
You miss the old analog... 
But, you know, there haven't been any outages. 
Well, yeah, that's true. 
But you miss the old analog hum line, right? 
What? 
The old analog hum line it used to have, you know, with the loud hum on it. 
Yeah, well, that's because they didn't fix it. 
Because they wanted you to improve your phone quality. 
I imagine I'm hearing a little bit of crackling right now. 
Well, I'm unwrapping cellophane. 
No, you're not. 
No, don't tell her that. 
Why? 
I always play with cellophane during the show. 
You know that. 
See? 
There it is. 
Wait, that's a fire. 
Put that out. 
Put that out. 
Oh, my God. 
Can't light up matches in the... 
You know, joke's on them, though. 
You should just turn around and start, like, just be an ISP and start selling your own... 
Reselling your Fios. 
I wonder if that's illegal. 
In the 332 area code. 
You have a whole area code to play with. 
Get a whole bunch of phone numbers and give them out like candy. 
I mean, and a subscription. 
I do have a question for you. 
Are you able to go into the station and do your show and take phone calls yet? 
Not as of now. 
We hope soon. 
It will be nice. 
Although, you know, I gotta say it's pretty convenient to be able to do it like this. 
But I miss actually going out and seeing people in person, being in a different place. 
So, maybe we can do a mix of both. 
Yeah, we're probably going to live in sort of a hybrid existence where we're able to be in either. 
Or both at the same time. 
Yeah, maybe both. 
And maybe people could be virtual as well or show up. 
It's a little bit tricky just to have such a large... 
Virtual people like Max Headroom? 
Those two? 
But it's a little tricky because our show is among one of the larger shows. 
And the station, though spacious, is itself somewhat limited. 
It's large if you count the entourage, which we can't bring everywhere. 
And I've been trying to tell people this. 
It's just... 
Even getting on the subway is a hassle. 
So, we have to work out some compromises. 
And we're, you know, almost ready to do that. 
But it's also, you know, it's up to the kind of community at the station. 
And, you know, what's best for the staff there. 
And we're certainly open to returning it. 
We miss it as well. 
I miss getting coffee and hanging out. 
Well, you do know they moved. 
They didn't tell us where they went. 
There's that, too. 
That's another challenge. 
Oh, think about Instagram. 
Couldn't you call your Instagram account The2600? 
Uh-huh. 
And would you put The in front of your name? 
No, not The. 
No, but I'm saying, how would you feel if you had to change your name to suit them? 
You see? 
The and my name? 
Yeah. 
I am The Eleanor Elizabeth Foreman. 
Yeah. 
I, you know, unless that is something you like. 
But, you know, changing your name because a computer can't handle your name. 
It's not changing your name. 
It is changing. 
If you're adding things to your name. 
It's ornamenting it. 
Well, we, we decline. 
We don't want to ornament our names. 
In order to find you on the computer, I put 2600.org. 
You had to add something. 
.org. 
Well, it's .com, but it is .org as well and .net because those are interchangeable. 
But the important thing is the 2600, you know? 
And the same thing with the 2600. 
Okay, okay, but how about this? 
How about, how about, if you couldn't enter 2600.org, you had to enter the 2600.org because, because the internet couldn't handle a number, you know, as a domain. 
So it had to be, you had to put a letter in there somewhere. 
It would be ridiculous. 
And we'd have to, we'd have to basically change our identity to suit them. 
And I just don't think we should have to. 
Putting the in front of your name is a big deal. 
Well, then we will always put a V in front of your name. 
I'll see how you like it. 
You know, I used to think that human beings were adaptable. 
But 2600 is. 
Yeah, that's not going to make us feel better. 
We don't, I don't think that's the reason they're doing it. 
Look, we're just trying to get past their, their obstinate bureaucracy of, of no people and all computers that are saying no. 
What about an obstinate you? 
I'm obstinate because, because I want to preserve a name that we are. 
Look, we filed taxes with that name. 
Why can't we have an Instagram account with that name? 
I'm sorry. 
We have preserved the name. 
Not on Instagram, we haven't. 
It's the 2600 account. 
Why do people stand up for these corporations? 
I don't understand it. 
I don't, look, on Twitter it works perfectly. 
Never a problem on Twitter. 
Eleanor, this isn't like you. 
Well, I think you're being devil's advocate. 
You and Alex could open a business together. 
How is it not like me? 
Go ahead. 
Well, ordinarily, I didn't, I wouldn't feel like you would, you know, you would be with us on this and, you know, instead of this making up this new name. 
I don't think you should self-censor yourselves by not letting yourself get on Instagram and putting out the things that can only go over in a pictorial manner. 
It is a choice. 
Over something that trivial. 
It is, yeah. 
We are not self-censoring. 
But it's, it's. 
We're just not playing the game. 
It's a non-starter. 
It's like, wait a minute, we, we can be on your platform if we change ourselves. 
That is, that is basically. 
No, the, the 2600 Instagram account. 
Okay, you know what? 
When you get wired to do that, we'll go along. 
All right? 
Convince them. 
Then, then we'll, we'll see. 
Or Time Magazine or Newsweek or whatever. 
Or Nature. 
But they all get their, everyone gets their name. 
It'll be The Nature. 
Yeah. 
It's not right. 
Yeah. 
What about the New York Times? 
How about we just say the, as an illegal word? 
Rob. 
One, one very important point here is that they are telling us that we can't have 2600 because it's against the rules. 
But that's not the rules for everybody. 
I'm looking at an Instagram page right now for something called 433, which is apparently a podcast about sports. 
And, you know, we are not a podcast about sports, but why don't we get to have the same privileges that they have? 
This is some, this is some big account with millions of followers. 
And they, they don't have to be the 433. 
And they got millions of followers because, because they're a number. 
Yeah. 
Because numbers are cool. 
All right. 
I'll say it. 
I'm not, I'm not ashamed. 
And I think this also is really just a way for Instagram to throw a kind of, a kind of opaque little rule there and, and, and really not get it at what they may or may not have a problem with, which is more along the lines, I think of the subject matter, the kinds of things we talk about, the things maybe that, um, you know, we critique in some of these companies. 
I have a feeling maybe that is part of this on a deeper level, but it allows them, excuse me, I'm talking. 
Go ahead. 
It allows them to sidestep it, put this in front of it and not even, uh, not even allow us in the first place. 
You know what? 
I think the irony is, I don't think it's that. 
I think nobody there knows what's going on because you can never reach a person there. 
And I think any, almost anybody who works there can say, Oh, this is what you want. 
Sure. 
No problem. 
Just type in something or throw a switch and that's it. 
It's that simple, but you can't reach anybody to get them to do that. 
They just have this weird ass rule. 
They claim that's the rule. 
There's no reason for it. 
And we can't even get to a point where somebody will justify it. 
It's just text on a screen. 
That's all it is. 
Alex, I think you had something to contribute here. 
Let me, let me, let me jump in here and, um, and, and also just act as a, as a slight reminder of what you had said during the show. 
Uh, and I think during overtime too, and I'm, I'm, I'm on Eleanor's side here, by the way, I'm not surprised at, uh, just, just giving you a preview. 
If I recall correctly, Emmanuel, you were going on about how, you know, because it's their platform, they have the right to kick people off. 
They have the right to regulate the content. 
They have the right to determine what it is that we see and shouldn't see. 
They do. 
Yes. 
They do. 
What's harmful and not harmful to us. 
Yes. 
But so, but by necessary implication that eight, what we would call in the law in a 40 RI argument by necessary implication, then don't you think that they would have the much smaller right to their own technical and, and seemingly insignificant naming convention for users? 
Yeah. 
But see, it's not technically impossible. 
They want us to think that, or they want us to accept that, but we want to actually hear them talk about the other stuff. 
Yeah. 
We'd love that to be on record, but this, this little technical hurdle of numbers, they're, they're having difficult with numerals, Arabic numerals. 
Uh, that system is complicated for them in their naming scheme. 
Don't say Arabic numerals. 
It gets them nervous. 
Oh, you're right. 
Yeah. 
If you ask people, no, if you ask, if you ask parents at a PTA meeting, should Arabic numerals be taught in schools? 
They will say no. 
Try it. 
It's a lot of fun. 
But, uh, Alex, no, you're right. 
I did say that. 
I did say that. 
And I mean that they have the right to do it, but we have the right to complain about it. 
We have the right to say, this is, you know, this is ridiculous. 
And we want our name. 
That's all. 
That's the right to be as inconsistent as you want. 
I agree. 
I don't think it's being inconsistent at all. 
And I think, you know, if you were a decent lawyer, you'd send a cease and desist to them and, uh, and we'd get somewhere. 
I agree with Eleanor self-censoring over a minor technical configuration. 
I've never heard of anything so ridiculous. 
I am self-censoring right now in my reply to you. 
How about that? 
Yes. 
Eleanor, great to hear from you. 
And, uh, we will hear from you again, hopefully soon. 
And, um, thanks for the, uh, exchange or area code. 
Yes. 
A valuable bit of information was learned here tonight. 
You've opened doors. 
Thank you. 
All right. 
Take care. 
All right. 
Uh, you know what? 
Um, I'm not gonna give the phone number out again. 
And I'll just say, uh, if the phone rings in two minutes, we'll pick it up. 
It'll be the last call. 
But if not, then we're just going to slink out of here because it is late and, uh, uh, we have other things to do. 
Um, yeah, but, um, I don't know. 
I'd like to, I'd like to see some, some changes in the way things are done. 
It's, uh, it's only fair. 
And the only way you get things done is if you complain, we all know that. 
Um, or challenge or ask questions to challenge and yeah, ask sometimes painful, hard, difficult questions like the proverbial three-year-old always asking why, why, why, why, but why, why, why damn it. 
And that's when he gets sent to your room. 
Uh, okay. 
Well, uh, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to give people the opportunity to have closing remarks, assuming that we are done. 
Um, anyone, I, uh, I was playing around with some stuff, uh, off mic while, uh, that exchange was going on earlier and I did find a three, three, two number that works that is active. 
Don't give out the number, but tell us something about it. 
It is a taco bell. 
Are you serious? 
A taco bell has a three, three, two. 
Yes. 
Can you tell us one of the, one of the very few, uh, three, three, two numbers that I found on the web in, you know, admittedly a cursory search is a taco bell in Manhattan. 
It's in Manhattan. 
Okay. 
Wow. 
Here's the thing with such a cool area code, I imagine you can probably get any number you want almost. 
So, uh, maybe we should try to do that. 
Three, three, two, two, two, two, two, six. 
Oh, oh. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
This is the last call, but let's make it quick. 
Uh, good evening. 
You're on off the go for time. 
You're the last call. 
Go ahead. 
Hello. 
You know what? 
That counts. 
They hung up. 
That counts. 
Nice try. 
Yeah. 
That was the last call. 
A for effort. 
And it was, it was, you know, uh, it was a comment of sorts. 
All right. 
Maybe they missed. 
I'll give them one more chance, but that's it. 
Okay. 
One more chance. 
Last call. 
Uh, what, what's on your mind? 
Anyone there? 
No, you do it twice. 
It's not a mistake anymore. 
So you can call back a thousand times and we're not going to pick up. 
Do not look directly into the bright light. 
All right. 
Who was, uh, Gila, go ahead. 
I did have a thought cause I was looking at my, um, missed calls and I got a, obviously a junk call that I didn't pick up, but it was from the area code that my cell phone is in and the prefix on the call was 9-1-1, which I thought was very interesting. 
Which is of course not a technically, uh, not one that you can actually have. 
An actual exchange, but at the same time, it was making me think about 10 digit dialing and how we don't even, a lot of places don't even think about it anymore, but places where there's really only been one area code and there are not overlays and people are still seven digit dialing is fascinating and how much easier it might be for people to fall for a junk call with a 9-1-1 interchange if you're 10 digit dialing. 
Yeah. 
That's what I thought about. 
I don't understand why we need the one anymore. 
I, I, I really don't get that. 
If we're, if everybody is doing 10 digit dialing or 11 digit dialing at this point, I mean, I, I only found out that fairly recently 516 in Nassau County was still using seven digit dialing. 
I didn't think anybody still did that, but, um, I'm assuming that there aren't any more, but there might be, maybe I'm wrong, but if there aren't, then we don't need the one anymore. 
So let's start the campaign to abolish the one. 
I'm all for that. 
Save a little bit of time and, and that time can be spent on other more important things. 
We're going to still keep one, one, right? 
Plus one, one. 
What's plus one, one. 
Well, the international dial, we need it for international. 
Who told you it was plus one, one. 
Well, isn't it plus oh, one, one. 
Or when's the last time you called overseas? 
What is it? 
It's plus oh, one. 
You know, I'm not going to tell you. 
I'm not going to tell you because it's plus, it'll keep you from dialing expensive calls and, uh, you need to, you need to learn plus one or it's oh, one, one. 
You're partially right. 
The numbering format, the way things are spelled out internationally, it says plus country code because they don't know what country you're in. 
So, you know, in Europe, you dial zero, zero to go overseas. 
And then that's the plus. 
Well, it's on your cell phone. 
It's a plus. 
Exactly. 
And that's what you would do on a cell phone. 
And you hold down the, whatever button it is that makes a plus show up. 
Oh, a long hold? 
Yeah. 
And, and, and, um, if you're dialing from a landline in Europe, it's zero, zero, the country code and, and, and phone number. 
And our country code happens to be one. 
So it looks like they're dialing the one that we dial before area codes. 
It's a different one, but it looks the same. 
Uh, in our case, we dial zero, one, one, zero, one. 
I was right. 
No, you weren't. 
You said one, one. 
You said plus one, one, zero, one, one is what you call. 
I corrected myself. 
All right. 
We, we have this on recording and there's a timestamp and, and yeah, there'll be an inquiry. 
Zero, one, one country code and, and city code and number and then pound sign. 
That's the way you used to be able to do it. 
So I'm just saying we can't totally abolish the one. 
We're going to need it. 
You need the one for other things, but I'm saying the one in front of the area code for domestic calls. 
Yeah. 
No, I'm fine with that. 
And by the way, we don't really have a country code because we share it with Canada. 
So there, we don't even have a country code. 
How do you like that? 
Did anybody else have any closing statements before we go completely nuts here? 
No, Alex, anything from you? 
No, I think it was a fun overtime. 
Appreciate everybody calling. 
Yeah. 
I got to go, um, installing some radar arrays. 
Oh, we're doing that. 
Okay. 
Yeah. 
Sure. 
Why not? 
Um, good hearing from everybody. 
Please write to us. 
O-T-H at 2600.com is our email address. 
Uh, and again, uh, if you have ideas for Hope Talks, the deadline for early submissions is this coming Monday, the February 28th. 
Go to hope.net for more information on that and spread the word about the conference because it's going to be awesome. 
And, uh, it's, uh, it's the next step. 
It's the next chapter. 
It's going to be really, really interesting and historic. 
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Till then, stay safe and alert and, um, let us know what you find. 
And we are not picking that up. 
Good night.