Hello, it's 7 o'clock and you're listening to WBAI in New York, and it's time. 
We're sorry. 
The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now off the hook. 
Alex, you sound like you're a million miles away. 
You okay there? 
I'm about 90 miles away. 
Okay. 
All right. 
I wasn't sure about the microphone there. 
Well, we weren't on last week, and what a week not to be on, because so much has happened in the two weeks since we have been here. 
And I guess predictably, we're going to be focusing on events of the world, because there's really nothing more important to focus on. 
And there's plenty that has to do with the hacker community, as you've probably seen in the news. 
Yeah. 
All kinds of things are being hacked left and right. 
We're going to get into that in just a moment. 
However, this caution for you hackers out there who might have good intentions, the Russian Space Agency says that hacking satellites is an act of war. 
So, if you're bored and feeling that you're going to get justice by hacking a satellite, you may find yourselves at war with Vladimir Putin. 
And, you know, I guess, can you be at war? 
Can a hacker be at war with another country? 
Because you don't know where the hackers are coming from. 
You absolutely have no idea, many times, if they know how to cover their tracks. 
Well, the story reads, Russia will consider any cyber attacks targeting Russian satellite infrastructure as an act of war, as the country's space agency director said in a TV interview. 
Dmitry Rogozin, the current head of the Russian Roscosmos State Space Corporation, added that such attempts would also be considered crimes and investigated by Russia's law enforcement agency. 
It's funny that the act of war comes first, and then also it's a crime. 
So, after we obliterate you, we're going to charge you with something. 
Because disabling the satellite group of any country is generally a word for you, Alex, a casus belli. 
Is that some kind of Latin term? 
Alex isn't there. 
Where'd Alex go? 
Alex, you can't take field trips in the middle of the show. 
What is a casus? 
I have to tend to a wood-burning stove. 
But to answer your question, casus belli is a cause of war. 
Cause of war. 
Wow. 
We will be looking for those who organized it. 
He said that sounds very ominous. 
We'll send all necessary materials to the Federal Security Service. 
He's giving us the names of all their internal agencies here. 
The Investigative Committee and the Prosecutor General's Office for Relevant Criminal Cases to be opened. 
While not directly hit by hackers, satellite systems have been used before in cyberattacks, with the Russian-backed Terla Cyber Espionage Group famously hijacking satellite internet links to deliver malware to remote areas. 
On Monday, Anonymous-linked Network Battalion 65, NB-65, claimed it hacked and shut down some Roscosmos servers. 
Rogozan denied their claims, saying the Russian Space Agency's activity control centers operate normally and called NB-65 scammers and petty swindlers. 
Oh, it's on now. 
Really? 
You're going to be like that? 
NB-65 scammers and petty swindlers. 
But that will not go unremarked. 
I can guarantee that. 
Two days later, I hope that's right. 
Roscosmos asked for guarantees Wednesday that one-web satellites, a part of a future worldwide network, part of a future worldwide network, wow, providing internet broadband services, one-web satellites, will not be used for military purposes, as Reuters first reported. 
Rogozan added that the Soyuz rocket planned to put 36 one-web satellites in orbit would not launch unless the UK government doesn't withdraw from one-web and sell its share. 
Okay, it will not launch unless the UK government doesn't withdraw and sell its share. 
That's awfully confusing. 
I could see the UK easily doing the exact opposite unintentionally. 
These demands were later dismissed by UK business and energy secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, who refused any negotiations and said that the UK government would not be selling its share. 
I give you two days to think, Rogozan replied. 
It's so James Bond, evil villain. 
There will be no guarantees of non-military use of the system. 
There will be no system. 
And then, did you see the graphic of the space station just kind of falling apart? 
They sent that over, too, as kind of a threat that they're going to let the International Space Station fall apart. 
It's really, you know, this is just one element of the many things that we've been hearing over the past couple of weeks, referring, of course, to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the long-anticipated Russian invasion of Ukraine. 
But I've got to say, it's far worse than even I thought it might be, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better anytime soon. 
Folks, I'll let you speak if you have any insight or observations. 
I'm just a bit nonplussed because, you know, before all this started, we had actually marked it on our calendars. 
We were planning today as the day that we were going to start hacking Russian satellites live on the radio. 
But I guess we're not doing that now. 
Yeah. 
Well, I mean, it's difficult really to find words for what has happened over the last two weeks. 
And one thing I will note, too, is I also feel like whenever we are preempted, something happens during that week that is akin to a world-changing, life-changing event, and we're never on the air at that moment to talk about it. 
I really, really wish we were on the air last week. 
I'll say I've been glued to CNN, MSNBC, foreign media, watching this, watching from the sidelines, feeling probably like most of you, fairly helpless in terms of what we can do and what we cannot do in particular. 
I mean, Emmanuel brings up some really good points here in that, as people with special skill sets, we may feel compelled to act in one way or another on behalf of the Ukrainians. 
And especially since President Zelensky had put out a call for people to join the Ukrainian Cyber Army or whatever it's called, the IT Brigade or something like that. 
But I will say, and I will caution, that still hacking and accessing unauthorized systems without proper authorization is still a crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, regardless of whether or not you're doing it on behalf of a foreign power or within a war. 
So I think people have to be really cautious, be really careful, and Emmanuel also points out the fact that if we do have some type of situation where a cyber operation can be misinterpreted, and that cyber operation may look like it's coming from a state, but it is actually coming from an individual, this can really escalate things. 
It can make things worse. 
And I've got a lot of theories. 
I'm sure that we'll get into it. 
I don't need to get into them all right now, but as the show progresses, I've got a lot of theories about why we haven't seen too many cyber operations spilling over into the real world, the real world being the world outside Ukraine, the world outside a war zone. 
I don't mean to imply that what's happening in Ukraine is not real by any means or a stretch of the imagination, but I think there's a lot to unravel, and I hope we get through a bit of it this show. 
Yeah, well, anything we do is only going to be a slice. 
It's not going to be complete. 
It's going to be frustrating because there are so many things we do want to get to. 
But just to speak to your point for a moment about being concerned about violating certain laws. 
First of all, it's a good point that people with good intentions may do the wrong thing and cause misinterpretation and hurt the wrong people. 
That's certainly possible if you don't know what you're doing. 
But as far as worrying about violating certain statutes, you know, to me, murder is something that is a crime, whether it's inside of a war or invasion or not. 
And I think that is really what we should be focusing on, not worrying overly about is this going to violate a particular cyber law. 
And, you know, I'm not saying people should act recklessly. 
I'm just saying that I understand. 
I understand when people fight back in various ways. 
And right now, I just - I don't think I'm alone feeling powerless here, feeling that there isn't enough that can be done to stop what we are all witnessing and what we know is going on. 
And friends of ours, people that we've met, people that, you know, are from a part of the world that shows so much promise, so much growth, so much - just so much amazing interactions, humor. 
It's just - for those who haven't been to that particular section, whether it's Moldova or Ukraine or even Russia, there is so much there being destroyed right now, whether it's through actual bombs or whether it's through a totalitarian state that is being imposed on people. 
It's scary. 
We have to pay attention, we have to speak up, and we can't be cowed by anybody, people here, people over there. 
Yeah, I think fear and silence has brought us to this brink, this intense moment. 
But I agree with Emmanuel in the sense that it strikes me that the stories we have, the stuff we're going to talk about, not one bit of it is going to be about someone getting in trouble for doing something about what has been going on and to Russia. 
I don't see any cases being built on that right now, and I think it would be laughable if anything like that was brought to bear in this moment over this. 
It's ridiculous. 
Well, I mean, let's look at a couple of things that have been happening. 
Basically, the Kremlin's website went down. 
This is late in February, in the early days of the invasion. 
Well, still in the early days. 
It's only been two weeks. 
But let's say the first week, the Kremlin's website went down, and Russian TV channels were hacked to play Ukrainian songs. 
So this is the kind of thing that if you have the ability to do something like that, I say go for it. 
And I don't care how that's interpreted. 
People have to express themselves, whether it's by hacking a website, whether it's by taking over a broadcast. 
You know, justice has to prevail. 
People in Russia, they're basically not seeing other sides of the story at all. 
They're not allowed to. 
If you broadcast something that expresses a different perspective, you face 15 years in prison. 
And when it gets to that point, you have to fight back. 
You have to do something to override that. 
And yes, protect yourself by all means so that it doesn't come back to haunt you. 
But by no means shy away from doing something if you have the ability to do something to fight back. 
Yeah, there was an elegant story. 
I don't have a story. 
I don't know if you saw it either or anybody else did. 
But it was text being overlaid in Russian CCTV systems, basically talking about people who were attacked. 
And I think it was an anonymous related technique. 
But the tactic itself speaks to the information clampdown and getting reporting in there because widely in Russia, they don't believe this is happening because they're not being told about it. 
And there is all of this media that's been pulled apart and pulled out in the last two weeks. 
So elegant things like that that can get information in, I think, coincide with some of the policies you've been hearing about Internet and cutting off different places. 
Like that's that's a different aspect of, you know, not wanting to do service, do business or provide services in a place that does not necessarily align with the rules based system. 
Now, we talked about the threat against anybody hacking satellites that that came from the Russian Space Agency spokesperson. 
But the hacker collective anonymous has also declared its own war against the Russian government after the Ukrainian invasion. 
The your non news Twitter account declared last Thursday, the group was currently involved in operations against the Russian Federation. 
We want the Russian people to understand that we know it's hard for them to speak out against their dictator for fear of reprisals. 
We as a collective want only peace in the world. 
We want a future for all of humanity. 
So while people around the globe smash your Internet providers to bits, understand that it's entirely directed at the actions of the Russian government and Putin. 
And this story you might have heard of as well, also involving anonymous. 
They changed the call sign of a super yacht reportedly belonging to Russian President Vladimir Putin in the early days of the invasion. 
According to independent journalist Ryan Gallagher, the hacktivist group took credit for the cyber attack during which they changed the ship's call sign to FCKPTN. 
Figure out what that is on your own and its destination to hell. 
Yeah, Putin reportedly has a ninety seven million dollar luxury yacht called Graceful, a group of anonymous hackers, anonymous the collective on Saturday figured out a way to mess with maritime traffic data and made it look like the yacht had crashed into Ukraine's Snake Island and then changed its destination to hell. 
Bravo. 
Bravo. 
I mean, there's no other word for that. 
And if there can be a thousand things like this going on at the same time, all the better. 
It doesn't substitute for what the brave people in Ukraine are doing right now with their resistance, whether it's standing up to the tanks that are barreling through their villages or actually on the front lines. 
But it's something it's something it's something to let you know, the rest of the world is behind you as well. 
Yeah, if they want chaos, they get chaos. 
They sow chaos. 
They'll get it right back. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Yeah, I. 
You know, I think there's there's so much that can be done with respect to that. 
But I do have to disagree with you guys to to a certain extent, though, I think a measure of restraint does need to be shown here because of just the possibility of this escalating. 
I mean, we're dealing with somebody that has been universally condemned as being a bit off the rails mentally, somebody who's been saber rattling with nuclear war. 
And this is just a situation where, you know, we don't really want to mess with it a bit too much. 
And I really would and can imagine a situation of people putting their necks out and getting in trouble for doing things that they probably should not be doing. 
I think authorities aren't going to turn a blind eye to that. 
So I would exercise some restraint with respect to what you're doing in any kind of cyber operation. 
And, you know, what The New York Times actually reported about two days ago, too, is that there were some some form of U.S. 
cyber operations that were ongoing. 
And, of course, there has been some reports of the Russian cyber operations within Ukraine that relates to wiper malware. 
Something known as the hermetic wiper was seen spreading throughout various organizations within Ukraine. 
And this is essentially a data destruction piece of malware, nothing incredibly complicated. 
And so most of what people have been talking about in the media with respect to cyber operations in Ukraine has been that perhaps the U.S. 
is there. 
Cyber operations were apparently moved from Kiev to someplace outside of Ukraine fairly recently. 
And likely the focus of that has probably been neutralizing the efforts of the Russians and the GRU, which is possibly why we don't see a huge amount of spillover just yet with respect to Russian operations. 
I mean, something I think that we should definitely talk about here, too, is the fact that there was a Russian ransomware group last week, Conti, with whom I'm very familiar, unfortunately. 
And they had almost immediately come out in support of Vladimir Putin and Russia and their invasion and incursion into Ukraine. 
And then almost immediately thereafter, I'd say maybe 12, 14 hours later, they walked that back a little bit. 
But in the meantime, a Ukrainian security researcher had released a massive amount of leaked data, data of the Conti jabber logs or their chat logs amongst themselves and amongst the ransomware negotiators that were speaking on behalf of the organizations who had been hit by Conti and their ransomware. 
And this is a huge amount of data. 
Not only is it these chat logs, but it's also training materials. 
And this Ukrainian security researcher really hit back by releasing some of the Conti source code that they used for their ransomware operations. 
So there's a lot being done there. 
And I'll tell you, taking a look at that, the Conti logs and the chat logs has been extraordinarily illuminating in terms of how they negotiate, what their operations are, and who their connections are outside of the ransomware world. 
It's really fascinating. 
It's just stuff that I think is going to shake out for a really, really long time. 
There may be some collateral spillover there, too, because a lot of these companies and organizations that were hit by this Russian ransomware gang that's known to be or rather known to have friendly connections with the Russian government may not have actually reported a lot of those breaches and ransomware events to something like the Information Commissioner's Office or the regulatory authorities to which they were supposed to report that. 
Now they're released in these logs, and so that may be shaking out for some time to come as well. 
But so much happening, a lot of tit-for-tat there. 
I think we do have to exercise some restraint. 
Well, if I could just speak to that for a moment. 
I understand. 
I understand what you're saying. 
And to a degree, I'm in somewhat of a consensus with that. 
When you're dealing with somebody who's not necessarily completely sane with a lot of power, but you have to draw the line someplace. 
Because if you're going to basically say, well, we can't antagonize him too much because he's going to do something else, basically, then he has all the control. 
I grew up with bullies. 
I know how this works. 
And I know that if you simply keep yielding and keep giving in, they just take more and more and more, and they don't care. 
And at some point, you have to do something. 
Are you familiar with what mobbing is? 
If you go to the East Village, there's a hawk there named Christo. 
Ask him. 
He knows what mobbing is. 
This is when small birds attack a much larger bird and drive him out of their area. 
It's fascinating to watch. 
You know, little tiny birds that you never would think would want to come near a hawk because, you know, the hawks prey. 
But they succeed in making sure that he does not act or she does not act aggressively and destroy their community. 
And they all get together. 
Small birds from all around basically unite for this one purpose. 
We need to do mobbing. 
We all need to do mobbing. 
It's not something that's coming from a particular country, a particular regime. 
It's people power. 
And that's what we're seeing. 
If there's anything good that has come out of this, we're seeing the incredible amount of people power both within Russia, within Ukraine, around the world. 
And that is a match that no dictator can survive if it's sustained, if it's strong enough. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
I think there's definitely something to be said for what Alex was saying about restraint. 
The thing we have to take into account is that right now tensions are high, emotions are high. 
It's a crappy situation, you know, any way you look at it. 
And it's not always easy to figure out what is the best thing to do, what one should be doing, how one can best be helpful. 
And I think one thing we could focus on is ways in which the hacker community can be helpful directly to the people in Ukraine who are in the middle of this, who are dealing with this, and who are the ones who know what's best. 
You know, I could look at the news, you know, from one direction or the other and think that I've come up with a perfect solution. 
But, you know, me sitting on my butt here in New York, in America, thousands of miles away, I am not the expert. 
And so I want to hear from people out there who have maybe found or are building ways that we can interact, get in touch with people who are in the thick of this and be of direct help to them. 
If you send us email, OTH at 2600.com, tweet at us at Hacker Radio Show, or give us a phone call when we do overtime at the end of the hour, I want to hear from people out there who actually know and maybe work with ways that are of actual value to the people under threat right now in Ukraine. 
I think, and I'm also thinking a lot of, like, before this went down, one of our big stories was how a friend of the show has been treated like a foreign asset and given a huge prison sentence for having a conversation with some Koreans about cryptocurrency. 
So, you know, I don't think things are going to get lighter in the way of how people who are caught doing things in an unauthorized manner are treated. 
So be safe out there, be careful, make the most informed decisions you can with the best data you can possibly get hold of. 
And to go from there. 
Yeah, and let's talk to each other. 
Let's share that information, as you said. 
And at 8 o'clock, to give further details of what Rob was referring to, we have an extension of the program called Overtime. 
It takes place on YouTube on channel 2600. 
That's our channel. 
And you can call us. 
You can call us live and be on the program. 
So if there are people out there in that region, we certainly would, you know, if you're not too busy doing other things, we certainly want to hear your perspective, but certainly understand if it's the last thing you have time for right now. 
Yeah, I just think we should do absolutely everything else before things escalate. 
You don't want to get to a point like that and say where you're looking at too little and too late. 
It's not an option anymore. 
Now, I wanted to look at this story that's been circulating, saying that Russia is about to leave the Internet. 
And in fact, I'm even seeing a date. 
I'm seeing March 11th, the day after tomorrow. 
With all the reaction against Russia, all the companies cutting off services of one sort or another, basically, we're looking at something known as a splinternet, which basically means Russia would no longer be part of the Internet. 
In 2019, the Russian government said it has successfully tested a system known as RUNET, R-U-N-E-T. 
At the time, few understood the need for it. 
But now in the context of the Ukraine invasion, kind of makes a bit of sense. 
Russian ISPs were asked to effectively configure the Internet within their borders as if it were a giant intranet, which is a private network of websites that don't speak to the outside world. 
The initiative involved restricting the points at which Russia's version of the net connected to its global counterpart. 
It appears Russia is retesting those systems now. 
In a memo from the Russian government, ISPs were asked to beef up their security and connect a domain name system DNS servers in Russia. 
Some thought the memo and the date for completion, as I mentioned, on March 11th, meant Russia intended to cut itself off imminently. 
What do you guys think of this? 
I mean, my first question becomes, what happens to the TLD.RU? 
Does that just go away? 
No, it would still be there. 
My understanding of this, and I may be wrong, is that this would be an alternate domain name system or some kind of alternate system of lookups, whereby you wouldn't be using the ordinary domain name system that the rest of the Internet is connected to. 
This would be a separate network that would only exist within Russia. 
And there have been earlier incantations of various versions of alternate DNS or alternate domain name systems in the past. 
None of them have really caught on, but back in 2011, 2012, when ICANN had been advocating the expansion of the domain name system through its new GTLD program, or the new generic top-level domain program, by which you could apply for brands and things like .coke, .pepsi, .watches, generic terms, and .art. 
I actually represented an applicant for .art, and there was in this alternate DNS already a top-level domain for .art. 
And, you know, we got into a little spat with them going back and forth. 
But so there have been early incantations. 
Nothing has really ever taken off, and a lot of this - well, rather, the success of any kind of alternate DNS function would rely entirely on the inherent - I think the inherent technology and the inherent connections that exist within whatever network that is. 
So, for instance, if there is a vibrant tech community that all belongs to Roonet, and you can connect to something that looks like Facebook or Twitter, and you have all these different services that you can access on Roonet, well, then maybe it would have a chance of surviving. 
But Russia doesn't have that. 
Russia doesn't have a vibrant domestic tech community. 
I mean, I think that the height of Russian innovation with respect to high technology over the last couple of years, as I've seen it, has been the Internet Research Agency over in St. 
Petersburg that tried to disrupt our 2016 election with some effect, by the way. 
I mean, they certainly did a good job of it. 
But they don't have a lot of this internal infrastructure to run their own DNS system, to run something like Roonet, and actually make it successful, in my opinion. 
But there has been talk, too, about - in other circles, in the wider DNS, the real DNS that we are used to in terms of the thing that ICANN regulates, in removing something like .su or .ru and preventing those domains from resolving. 
That, I think, is more dangerous, though, because when you're removing something from the actual Internet that we all use and the whole world is a part of right now, that's going to have a huge effect on the security and the stability of the Internet. 
These are the things that ICANN is charged with protecting and maintaining. 
And the other thing that bears mentioning, too, is that ICANN does not have a lot of historical authority with respect to CCTLDs or the country code top-level domains. 
The things like .ru or .de for Germany or even .us for the United States, all of those have really been run by the countries themselves. 
They set the policies. 
There's some crossover in terms of what they do and how they do it and back-end infrastructure and things. 
But more fundamentally, I disagree with the disconnection of large swaths of the Internet in countries in particular, especially when there is a war that the domestic population in Russia disagrees with. 
I just think philosophically it's a bad idea because even though the Russians are really good at spreading disinformation and a lot of that comes from within their borders and exits to the rest of the world, if you limit the spread of disinformation from Russia, that's inevitably going to limit the spread of information entering Russia. 
And with local crackdowns, protests, journalism, that's going to leave the Russian population a lot more vulnerable than it ever was to disinformation from the Russian government itself. 
If that's the only source of information that's out there. 
Don't you think that's what the Russian government wants to do? 
And by the way, I just want to clarify, when you say the Russians are good at spreading disinformation, we're talking about the Russian government. 
Because the Russian people, I think, have a very strong sense of what is true and what is not true. 
I also think they have a vibrant technology scene as well. 
It's just not given the support that it deserves. 
My question, though, if something like this were to happen, and it would be, well, I know that there are attacks on various Russian agencies and government offices. 
I think the push to take them off the net is actually coming from within Russia itself. 
So they basically, the authorities there would have complete control. 
But would they be able to just simply remap the internet? 
I'm not exactly sure what the correct term is. 
But basically take all the top-level domains and just make them do something else instead. 
For instance, 2600.com can go to, I don't know, the Ministry of Truth or something. 
They could basically just have a fake internet. 
People would not be able to get to anything outside of Russia, but it would appear like they might be. 
They might think they were. 
I'm not sure if this is just fantasy or if this is something. 
If you cut off completely from the rest of the world, it seems like you could make domain names do whatever you want inside the country. 
Does that make sense, Alex? 
I mean, sure. 
If they were to recreate an entire new - well, you know what? 
Technically, I guess you could, right? 
Because a lot of these zone files you can get, you can figure out what's in .com and .net and whatnot and replicate it all, have it resolved to something else, essentially create a series of redirects. 
But what you would have then is you would be running a different version of .com based on your own DNS servers, based on your own domain name system servers that would be local within your own country. 
So you could have Facebook.com resolve to the Russian Ministry of Defense if you wanted to. 
This is not at all an unusual practice. 
It's widely done filtering and setting various kinds of parameters and whitelists and blacklists and all kinds of things. 
There are whole industries, whole sectors dedicated to this in various institutions. 
There are countries around the world that participate in this. 
I don't have to list them. 
You can guess. 
So there are places that are so filtered and do so much content control and manage it so well. 
They're all but completely cut off. 
So that's the tradeoff when you implement these things even in more peaceful times. 
I wanted to focus on something else that people are showing support in many, many ways, whether it's by displaying Ukrainian flags, playing Ukrainian music. 
And this is something we did on the other radio show. 
We basically focused on something known as interval signals. 
Now, this goes back to the days of shortwave, which, by the way, might be making a comeback. 
More on that later. 
But basically, every country has its own musical chime. 
And some of this still exists today. 
Most of it was decades ago. 
But basically, you would tune to a particular frequency. 
You would hear a particular chime repeating itself over and over again. 
And that was your signal that you're tuned to the right frequency for the country you were looking for a broadcast from. 
You still wouldn't know what language it was going to be in because shortwave stations would broadcast in all different languages. 
And the frequencies would change throughout the course of a day because atmospheric conditions demand that. 
So what I'm about to play now is the sound of Ukrainian radio from - this actually dates back into the 70s, I believe. 
But the recording is a bit more recent, so it sounds a little bit better. 
Now, the reason I've taken a liking to these is because they make great ringtones. 
And if you change your ringtone to be the interval signal of a particular country, well, people are going to recognize that. 
A lot of people will recognize that and say, hey, I know that. 
I know what that is. 
I know that's Ukrainian. 
I know that that means something. 
So what we're going to do is we're going to turn audio down. 
You might actually hear some background noise. 
That's us listening in on - My Den Square. 
My Den Square in Kyiv. 
We just want to hear when things happen. 
Sometimes the air raid sirens go off and we're basically riveted watching what's going on there. 
But I'd like people to just listen for a moment. 
And if you're able to record it and make it your ringtone, all the better. 
You can tell a lot about people around you if they get a little bit unsettled or if they're really happy and they get thrilled when they hear it. 
You get a little sense of what's going on. 
I have all different interval signals on my phone and nobody ever recognizes them. 
It's really sad. 
I guess if I go to a particular country maybe and have it play, they might recognize it there. 
But anyway, this is the interval signal for Radio Ukraine. 
We'll be back right after this. 
I think we'll also listen to it. 
There's no signal. 
Thank you. 
Therial Control This is the Ukrainian Radio. 
And that's what it sounds like. 
Now, you can get a whole lot of Interval Signals from an amazing site called IntervalSignals.net. 
They're from everywhere, from all different years. 
And I do suggest using them as ringtones because they sound great and they mean something. 
Maybe produce your own or produce one for off the hook. 
Send us your creative and inspired ideas, OTH at 2600.com. 
And as long as I'm giving out websites, here's another really amazing website, RussianEmbassy.net. 
RussianEmbassy.net. 
Basically, it's a directory of every consulate, every embassy throughout the world. 
And not only the address, phone number, fax number, even a telex number. 
Who uses telex anymore? 
It's all there. 
So if you have a message to send or if you want to have a demonstration outside their offices, this is how you do it. 
So RussianEmbassy.net works throughout the world, every single country. 
And this is what people need to do. 
They need to vocalize and make their presence known. 
It's so important. 
It's never been more important than this. 
I'm really surprised that that still resolves to a general directory of every single consulate around the world. 
Is that right, Amanda? 
Why wouldn't it resolve? 
Yeah, you should W get your copy today. 
Well, yeah. 
Yeah, that's interesting. 
I mean, well, if they're cracking down on journalism, threatening to throw people in jail for 15 years. 
But it's not in Russia. 
The website is not in Russia. 
So of course, I don't know who operates. 
It doesn't matter. 
Anyone can operate something like this. 
The fact is that, you know, the information is there and it's being shared. 
That's interesting. 
Well, it obviously isn't operated by, you know, the Russians or it would, you know, be redirected to some kind of Rickroll or the Wikipedia page for Obsidian. 
Or it could be operated by a very brave Russian somewhere in the world or even inside Russia. 
There are people inside Russia who are doing so much. 
And it's them that I hope that they know that we have their back as well. 
Gila, I know you had something to say. 
Go ahead. 
I did. 
I did. 
My workplace is in New York City. 
And a couple of weeks ago, around the time of the initial invasion, I was coming back from lunch and I saw a parade. 
I saw literally a parade of people. 
And it occurred to me that they were walking from the Russian mission to the UN to the Russian consulate. 
They were carrying Ukrainian flags and they were just walking in New York City. 
And the thing that we have been talking about a lot is the pervasive feeling of powerlessness and the way that that moves various people. 
Well, I actually, I work in fundraising and I had someone argue with me saying, why are you collecting money and medical supplies? 
Shouldn't we be sending scarves? 
And I said, scarves? 
And she said, well, it's cold there. 
And I said, if the humanitarian organizations we're working with are asking for medical supplies, we give them medical supplies. 
They didn't ask for scarves. 
Everybody wants to, the way that this moves people in different ways is shocking and amazing. 
I think the important thing is to do something. 
Yeah. 
To be part of it. 
And if it's putting a bumper sticker on your car, if that's donating money, if that's camping out in front of the embassy, whatever that happens to be. 
We all have different ways of reacting. 
So if someone wants to send scarves, okay, fine. 
But let's focus on what they are really asking for. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Yeah. 
One interesting thing that I'd seen go past over the past couple of weeks was that people were seeking out online sellers like Etsy shops and eBay shops and things like that where people would independently sell things online. 
And just looking at shops in Ukraine and buying anything and putting a message to the seller, not actually expecting the product. 
They just want to send money. 
And so they're using the infrastructure that's there in the form of like PayPal and whatever else is going on on these individual shops. 
And just to send somebody over there some money that they can that they can then choose how to use and what in whatever way is best in their situation. 
And stuff like that, I think, is really clever. 
The Airbnb thing, too. 
Airbnb waives platform fees for listings in Ukraine. 
So people are reserving weeks at a time in Ukrainian Airbnbs. 
They're not going. 
It's just a way to get money to Ukrainian people right now. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
That's interesting. 
And also, I had heard of people using Yelp in Russia to post reviews that are actually statements against the invasion because everything else is being blocked. 
But, you know, one thing that I found really fascinating in all this is interactions on Twitter, basically people from all over the world contributing what they can. 
And this person is an investigative journalist, Christo Grozev. 
And he posted something that was simply unbelievable a few days ago, basically saying, Jesus, Ukraine just killed General Major Vitaly Gerasimov. 
You might have heard about this, Chief of Staff of the 41 Army at Kharkiv. 
I believe this has been confirmed. 
It's a couple of days this has been said, and Western media has said it's not confirmed. 
I think it's confirmed. 
But he continues. 
This is not the worst part. 
In the phone call in which the FSB, FSB being the intelligence service of Russia, formerly known as a KGB, still known as a KGB in Belarus, the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. 
Thus, the phone call using a local SIM card, thus the intercept. 
His boss, who makes a long pause when he hears the news of Gerasimov's death before swearing, is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. 
We identified him by searching for his phone published by Ukrainian military intel in open source lookup apps. 
In the call, you hear the Ukraine-based FSB officer ask his boss if he can talk via the secure ERA system. 
The boss says ERA is not working. 
ERA is a super expensive crypto phone service that was introduced in Russia with great fanfare, guaranteed work in all conditions. 
The idiots tried to use the ERA crypto phones in Kharkiv after destroying many 3G cell towers and also replacing others with stingrays. 
The ERA needs 3G slash 4G to communicate. 
The Russian army is equipped with secure phones that can't work in areas where the Russian army operates. 
I will read that sentence again. 
The Russian army is equipped with secure phones that can't work in areas where the Russian army operates. 
In closing, this is the origin of the greatest military OPSEC failure of all time. 
Putin signed a law of preventing soldiers from posting on social media. 
Then he told the military to not use foreign phones as they are insecure. 
The rest is history. 
Fascinating stories like this. 
We're hearing them every single day. 
But one thing is clear. 
This is not going Russia's way. 
This is not what they expected. 
And you have to wonder. 
I mean, superpowers never seem to learn this lesson that you cannot fight a resistance, a stubborn resistance. 
And even if Kiev falls, even if major cities throughout Ukraine fall, you will never have the support of the people. 
You will never have their cooperation. 
It will be a living hell for a very, very long time. 
And I mean for the occupiers. 
And I cannot imagine that lasting. 
I cannot imagine the Russian soldiers saying this is acceptable to us. 
I mean, these are their neighbors. 
Many of them are related. 
Odessa is a city that so many Russians know. 
They're going to be loathe to destroy it from the sea, which apparently is the plan. 
So militarily, this is a staggering defeat so far. 
And I see it getting much, much worse for the Russians. 
Yeah, I really hope that there isn't just this total lack of respect for anything. 
And it ends up just being something that is completely rebuilt in the eye of this menacing occupier. 
And, you know, they try to, like, get other, you know, multinationals and people to help rebuild what's left of their so-called spoils. 
That is not going to happen. 
And people are going to make sure it doesn't. 
Well, I said I was going to mention the return to shortwave. 
The BBC is resorting to broadcasting news bulletins over shortwave radio in Russia. 
And that's after the country blocked access to BBC websites. 
BBC announced it was bringing back the World War II era broadcasting technology in the region just hours before its sites were banned. 
News of the ban was also reported by Russian state news agency RIA. 
Shortwave radio, as we know, uses frequencies that carry over long distances and are accessible and portable sets. 
BBC says that shortwave broadcasts will be available on frequencies of 15,735 kHz from 4 p.m. 
to 6 p.m. 
and 5875 kHz from 10 p.m. 
to midnight, Ukraine time. 
News will be read in English, which the BBC says will be available in Kiev as well as parts of Russia. 
And that's interesting. 
That's fascinating. 
Radio is something that is a lot harder to just cut off access to. 
Yeah, you can jam. 
You can jam signals. 
You can broadcast over them. 
But that takes a lot more effort than simply pulling a plug or rerouting a website. 
So there's a lesson to be learned here. 
Radio is certainly a powerful medium. 
It continues to be. 
And right now, going back, going back to shortwave to get the word out, to get the truth out. 
Yeah, having as many options as possible and anything that increases the cost is a form of de-escalation. 
That's what we want to happen. 
This is too costly to pursue because nothing else is convincing the leadership there in Russia. 
So it's like the power that you would need to spend jamming signals and however much you'd have to build up doing that, you're not going to get everywhere. 
And there will be many other modes of getting information circulating, including that in a really diverse mix. 
So, yeah, if that's something that is pursued, so be it. 
It's still a relatively widespread mode, that shortwave signal bouncing off the ionosphere. 
I mean, that's something you can really, really get a far coverage for a moderate cost. 
And the stakes are high enough that I think that really warrants it. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
You know, something that we ordinarily bring up on this program during fundraising, but I think it bears mentioning now, is the fact that unlike websites like Facebook, YouTube, YouTube is still operational in Russia. 
Facebook is being blocked to some extent. 
I think TikTok might have pulled out or is being blocked. 
And so all of these websites, any kind of digital way of retrieving information, leaves behind metadata, leaves behind some kind of footprint, something in a web server access log that your IP address at this particular date and time accessed this kind of content and downloaded it to your IP address, right, to your machine. 
And to a large extent, depending upon what's being collected on the other side, even if you're using a VPN, there may be certain analytics about your machine, your fonts, your browser, your SSIDs that you're looking for, all kinds of different stuff that can enable the identification of you even without your IP address. 
But that just doesn't apply whatsoever to radio. 
Radio is a completely passive listening device that does not require the sender to create some kind of handshake or some kind of interface or even acknowledge to whom the signal is being sent. 
As Kyle mentions, that is absolutely the case on such a massively large scale with shortwave when we talked about this a few weeks ago, I believe, with regard to number stations. 
And that's why intelligence agencies have continued to rely on them. 
But just radio in general, radio being broadcast from Moldova, radio being broadcast from Poland, radio being broadcast from Romania can make such a massive impact on Russian troops and be used to get the truth to them. 
Something that the Russian state is denying, something that because of the massive sanction regimes that have been put in place, the Russian population can't get. 
And most certainly the Russian troops are not privy to what's actually happening on the other side of Ukraine or maybe even across their own city, across Kyiv. 
So radio is very much a dark art and I think can and will play a massive role in getting the word out about what is really happening on the ground in Ukraine. 
And for those of you who are moved by Alex's words and believe that radio is a powerful medium, as I do, please support this radio station because this is what you've been listening to. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
Give the number to WBAI.org or call 212-209-2950. 
Tell your friends, become a BAI buddy and keep this radio station going as all radio stations have the potential to reach people, to change lives. 
Hey, we're going to go out, we're going to be on YouTube in a few minutes at 8 o'clock, channel 2600 or follow the link on 2600.com at the top of the page. 
We're going to go out though with a Ukrainian band that had an entry in Eurovision, the last Eurovision contest. 
They finished fifth, actually. 
They're called Goa, Go underscore A. 
I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong. 
And the song is called Shum, S-H-U-M. 
Write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com. 
We'd love to hear your thoughts. 
Please keep listening. 
Keep getting the truth out. 
Keep supporting friends, neighbors, people far away. 
It's never been more important. 
We'll see you on Overtime and next week here on WBAI. 
Good night. 


And welcome everybody on YouTube. 
This is Off the Hook Overtime. 
Did we all make it, Kyle? 
Yeah, I'm here. 
Did you make it on Overtime? 
And Rob? 
We are here. 
Kila? 
Here. 
And Alex. 
Oh, for God's sake, he took another field trip. 
What's with him? 
He can't stay on the microphone there. 
He's always leaving. 
You got another radio show you're doing, Alex? 
Oh, we can admire the artwork on his wall that's normally blocked by him. 
Oh, he's got wood. 
Why are you coming back with a bunch of lumber? 
Well, you know, somebody's got to keep you guys in line. 
Is that firewood? 
Are you... 
Oh, this is that stove you were talking about, huh? 
Yeah, I've got the wood-burning stove going, so I had to step out for a second. 
Well, it's going to translate real well on the radio. 
Interesting conversation, and it continues to be most intriguing. 
I mean, not to gloss over the seriousness of the situation, the hell people are going through. 
It's just so weird to see the very places that Kyle and I journeyed to, just on a whim. 
You know, we decided we want to see what Moldova's all about, and, you know, the poorest country in Europe. 
And we were intrigued by the whole place. 
It was just such a spirited place. 
And now it might be in the focal point in the weeks ahead. 
Some of them. 
I mean, we've been to every last one of the places that has come up. 
We've been to a lot of these train stations. 
We've ridden on these trains. 
We've been to a lot of these major cities. 
I think Anderson Cooper's staying in the hotel room. 
We stayed in Lviv. 
No, he wasn't in that hotel room. 
No? 
Okay. 
But, yeah, like, places like Bratislava. 
Bratislava, I'm remembering my experiences there, seeing Western companies, seeing the kind of modern architecture and development and just really interesting stuff. 
Same with Romania. 
You know, we went to, like, a Megaplex. 
We went to some huge cinema, and it was built into this giant mall. 
We did. 
I was in Bucharest, in Romania, and we saw a film. 
Oh, of course we saw a film. 
Yeah, okay. 
But the film we saw. 
It was about Istanbul. 
It had to do with the train. 
Murder on the Orient Express. 
Murder on the Orient Express. 
The remake of Murder on the Orient Express. 
And I remember they were listing all the cities that it was going to stop, and Bucharest was one of them. 
And here we are in a theater in Bucharest. 
They say Bucharest in the film, and, of course, I do what I feel is the right thing and start applauding. 
And I'm the only one doing that. 
Apparently, that's not what you do in Romania when somebody mentions your city. 
But the thought I kept coming back to this week was, what will it be like to go back through Ukraine to a city like Kiev? 
It's going to be really, really difficult for me and travelers who've had experiences there and met the people and explored. 
But that's nothing compared to what tragedy and what loss the entirety of the country is facing. 
And that, I think, just, to me, makes the experience exponentially more dire. 
And just the words fail me for the amount of tragedy being suffered. 
And it's so, so disappointing to hear. 
Like, I was hearing conversations, people on call-in shows talking about that Ukraine thing. 
Talking about it like we've talked about, like we've heard people talk about other wars. 
And, like, it's some place that doesn't matter. 
And what I realize is people are really dumb in this country. 
A lot of them. 
I don't know if dumb is right. 
We're just misinformed or uninformed. 
Not well-traveled. 
Not curious. 
And here's the thing. 
I wish we had talked about this on Off the Hook on the radio show because people don't listen to foreign media enough. 
And I know Alex made reference to that. 
And we're going to give out some foreign media sources that we like and hopefully people can share with us as well. 
But to get back to Ukraine, we've been there twice. 
The first time we went there was when their former leader, Timoshenko, was still in prison. 
That's the woman with the braids that you might remember from the past. 
And we were walking around right by the square, the Victory Square. 
Yeah, they were celebrating the 20th anniversary of independence. 
We just happened to be there on that day. 
But she was still locked up in prison. 
And there were competing demonstrators outside. 
And they both were using megaphones at the same time, drowning each other out. 
That pretty much summed up the spirit in that part of the city at that time. 
And we went to the pro, I want to say pro-Ukrainian side, even though the other side will say they were pro-Ukrainian. 
But this was the more pro-Western and what the election actually reflected. 
They wanted a leader that was not a pro-Russian leader as the current guy had been. 
And how he got in was sneaky. 
And there's all kinds of ways we can talk about that. 
But basically, the difference between those two camps that are literally right next to each other was staggering. 
We went into the first one. 
And it was a lot like going to a BAI meeting where there are elderly people passing out leaflets. 
And everybody's friendly. 
And they have cupcakes and things like that. 
And then we wanted to see what the other people were like. 
And we went in there. 
And I think you noticed that they were basically positioning flags to make it seem like there were a lot of people there when there really weren't. 
All we wanted was a leaflet. 
And what we got instead were hostile stares. 
We had people following us afterwards. 
It was scary. 
It was really scary. 
And we weren't saying anything. 
We weren't judging. 
We weren't taking sides. 
We just were there to get information. 
But the level of suspicion and hostility that we saw there really, really was something that I can never forget. 
And that told me something about where the different sides were coming from. 
And, you know, they basically paint an image of themselves that did not go over too well. 
Now, this was before the bloodshed in that part of Kiev when the people won. 
They won the power back. 
And they drove their leader. 
He fled to Russia. 
But then after that was the seizure of Crimea and the breakaway republics. 
We went to Ukraine a second time when we were leaving Moldova. 
It was my bright idea to basically look at the train route and say, you know, it would be quicker if instead of going back through Romania, we went up to Kiev. 
I called it Kiev at the time, as many did. 
And then make a left turn and go back into Poland that way. 
What I didn't know was when we got to Kiev, it was impossible to get a train that went to Poland, very much like what's going on right now, but nowhere near as bad. 
There was a war going on. 
There actually was fighting between the Ukrainians and the people breaking away, supported by Russia. 
But we didn't think that would affect us so much. 
But then, you know, we saw we saw these public service announcements on screens, basically kids saying goodbye to their dads going off to, you know, to serve. 
And, you know, at the time, to me, it just seemed like, oh, yeah, you know, join the army, see the world didn't even hit me at the time. 
It did hit me, but it didn't hit me right away that these are people going off to fight right now in their country, defending their country. 
And it was it was pretty sobering to see that we saw a bunch of soldiers getting on trains. 
And realizing what they were what they were facing. 
So basically, for us to get out of the country, we went from Kiev to Lviv, the very same cities that are in the news right now, because we saw, hey, this this city is right next to Poland. 
So if we take a domestic train that just goes there, I'm sure we can get a local train that will just go over the border. 
And then we're in Poland. 
We can get back to Berlin, which is where our ultimate destination was. 
And there was a bit of back and forth with train agents. 
But in the end, we won out. 
We actually had to argue with them about various things. 
But I had a train book and I was able to say, no, this train really does exist and I want to be on it. 
And it worked then. 
It would not work now. 
It's just it's so weird to see all that playing out with such desperation and sadness right now. 
And I do look forward to seeing seeing that part of the world when this is over. 
And I am convinced that it will be a happy place because I do believe they are going to win. 
I do believe people power will will show its strength and it'll be inspiration for so many throughout the world. 
And that's my hope. 
That's my hope. 
I don't know how naive that is. 
Oh, yeah, we should take phone calls. 
I'm sorry about that. 
Our phone number 802-321-4225 802-321-HACK. 
If you're out there and you want to say something to us or you have information that you would like to to share, please give people who might be calling from far away a chance. 
If you're a regular caller, just hold off for a little bit. 
Let's see if anyone else is out there right now. 
Our country code is one phone number 802-321-4225. 
Any thoughts from Skype plan? 
Yeah, there's a lot of words. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Sorry. 
Okay, sure. 
I was about to say, go ahead, Rob. 
I'll just say, I don't want to dwell too much on this, though, but it has been something that we've been talking about for the last couple of years. 
So I figured it's worth mentioning. 
Things have been very, very busy for me over the last two weeks, I guess. 
And my days have been about 12 hours long every day, plus I've been doing a lot of exercise, cycling into the office and going to the gym and working 12 hours and cycling home. 
By the time I got home, I was feeling like utter crap, where I could just - and then you combine that with the news of everything that's going on. 
I could barely stay awake come 10 o'clock at night. 
And then this past weekend, I started feeling worse and worse. 
My in-laws were going to come over, so my wife and I said, you know what, let's take a COVID test, just to be sure. 
My wife had taken one earlier in the week, and she was fine, so I presumed that we would be fine. 
And lo and behold, it wasn't overworking myself and overexercising myself. 
I had COVID the whole goddamn week. 
Really? 
Wow. 
Yeah. 
So I had COVID. 
It didn't knock me on my ass by any means. 
I mean, I was still - I still put in probably between a - probably about a 60-hour week last week with COVID, thanks to the vaccine. 
I think if I didn't have three shots of the vaccine, I think it would have been an entirely different story. 
But I'm still feeling some of the after effects of it. 
I'm still a little bit tired. 
It's still hard for me to stay up a little bit later, and I still have a cough. 
And the cough is not a dry cough. 
There's stuff there when I cough. 
And that doesn't seem to be going away. 
But today was the first day that I tested negative for COVID. 
This morning, I took a test, and I no longer have the antigen. 
So I'm on the mend. 
But it was an interesting thing. 
I mean, I had COVID last week. 
This first - I'm hearing about this, and wow. 
That's terrible and good at the same time. 
Good that you got past it and that it didn't affect you so much, but terrible that you had to go through it in the first place. 
But, yeah, it's because of the vaccine. 
You know, we're all happy that things are taking a step towards normalcy. 
But the only reason that's even something under consideration - it's not because of people getting angry. 
It doesn't make a virus go away. 
It's because of the vaccine. 
It's because of the social distancing and the masks and things like that. 
That had an effect. 
That made a difference. 
I saw from the governor that 95% of people in New York State have gotten at least one shot, and that's incredible. 
I believe that's adults. 
So that makes a difference. 
When you have numbers like that, yeah, it's possible to do more than if you refuse to believe that it even exists. 
So it's possible, Alex, you might have had it twice because when this whole thing started - remember, you were holed up in Pennsylvania. 
You didn't know what you had, and you never got tested then. 
So it's possible you might be in the double COVID club. 
I think I am, quite frankly, because that happened - and it was almost two years ago to the day, which is what's really crazy. 
I think I might have missed that anniversary by perhaps a week, maybe 10 days, but two years ago when this whole thing kicked off, that was when I had a fever that wouldn't leave me for about 10 days. 
I was really, really tired, digestive issues, I mean all the signs of COVID. 
But back then, the advice was to stay away from the hospitals unless you had respiratory issues, not even to wear masks, if you recall that, because those should be - were being saved for the first responders and healthcare workers, that sort of thing. 
So I probably should have taken some kind of antigen or antibody test, rather, before I got the vaccine. 
I didn't do it, though. 
I just jumped at the chance to get the vaccine. 
But speaking of this and to bring it back to Russia, in a sense, and talking about conspiracy theories and this nonsense and people like these goddamn truckers driving around the Beltway in D.C., complaining about COVID regulations. 
Meanwhile, there's literal massacres of children and families happening across the world. 
But I've been hanging out, as we talked about, for the last couple of weeks in some of the telegram groups for these Freedom Convoy people. 
And I will tell you, some of the stuff that I have seen them say about the war in Ukraine is absolutely gone. 
You're cutting off right at the most interesting parts. 
Slow down, what? 
So just repeat that last part. 
Some of the things, what? 
Several things that the truckers, these Freedom Convoy truckers, have said in one of their telegram groups about the Ukraine war is absolutely galling. 
And I'm going to read this to you at the moment. 
So one of them, and this is from, I don't know, maybe about a week ago. 
Yeah, you're cutting out, Alex. 
You're cutting out. 
Yeah. 
We're not hearing you at all. 
I don't think that's me. 
Is somebody not on mute, perhaps? 
No. 
Go ahead. 
We heard you say that, so go ahead. 
Okay. 
So here. 
Somebody was posting something about the war, and then it said, I'm finished with the New World Order being promoted by this channel. 
See, I wouldn't want to be. 
The New World Order is essentially Biden, the United States, the United States, all of this. 
And then somebody writes in response, go Putin. 
He is killing the globalists. 
Don't believe the mainstream media. 
Putin is saving hundreds of millions of lives. 
Earlier than that, somebody wrote, the Russians are standing up against the globalists behind NATO. 
Ukraine is just a proxy used by NATO and the globalists to go get Putin and take complete control of Russia. 
You know, that he didn't really want to do this, but he had to go in because he had to fight the globalists. 
This is just absolute insane. 
And now that we're off the air, I think we can say it is absolute fucking bullshit. 
You can say that. 
Yes, you can say that. 
But here's the thing. 
Now, Alex, I find this to be interesting because what you just said is almost word for word what I hear from people on the far left. 
They say that somehow this has become a progressive talking point that the U.S. 
forced all of this and it's all part of U.S. 
imperialism. 
And basically, you know, I'm not for U.S. 
imperialism and I recognize the harm that it's caused throughout history. 
But you got to give credit to Putin for this one. 
You got to you got to see the evil for what it is. 
And you can't always be blaming the same bad guy. 
I realize there are many bad guys. 
And right now he is bad guy number one. 
And it's horribly naive to simply fall into that. 
But it's just weird. 
The the the bedfellows that are coming out of this, you know, truckers and people on the far left saying the same thing. 
And and look who's look who's suffering. 
Yes, Rob. 
And then we'll go to the caller. 
Yeah, the most toxic thing about the current media and political and social environment is that it's become about picking a side and then going with whatever that side is perceived to to be on. 
You know, instead of going to the trouble of looking into the Russia and Ukraine situation and learning what's going on, you just figure, oh, OK, my guy doesn't like them. 
So they're bad or my guy likes them. 
So they're good. 
And, you know, yesterday's Trump fan is today's Putin fan, which is weird. 
It's weird as all hell. 
It's it's really distressing. 
Let's let's go to the phone call that's on hold. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the hook overtime. 
Hi, is that me? 
Yes, it is. 
Yes. 
Oh, good. 
OK, finally. 
The first question is, can't you get a WhatsApp account? 
I'm paying for this call. 
I know it's. 
Oh, dear. 
But it has actually went on hold for a long time. 
Where are you calling from? 
Can you consider getting a WhatsApp account? 
Where are you calling from? 
Funny enough, from New York City, if you had a local phone call. 
We have a no, we have a we have a toll free number. 
I guess we should have given that out, too. 
We have a toll free number that you can call. 
You want to write this down for future reference? 
Yeah, I'm ready. 
And someone tell me if I get it wrong. 
I think I have memorized. 
It's one eight eight eight. 
Nope. 
OK, then I give up. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
I tried. 
It is eight three three seven five five twenty six hundred. 
And we have our friend Lucky to thank for this. 
It's one eight three three seven five five twenty six hundred. 
It's a toll free call in the United States. 
Sorry. 
So it's eight three three because I got eight eight eight first. 
It's confusing. 
Eight three three. 
It's eight seven five five twenty six hundred. 
Seven five twenty. 
Oh, very good. 
I had all the rest of it. 
I had all. 
I just didn't get the area card right, but I had all the rest of it. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
No, that's fine. 
You know, it's just I started writing that. 
Well, thanks for a wonderful program. 
And I suggest you should take the calls on the air at BAI because, you know, I mean, right now there are 42 people watching. 
I imagine in the tri-state area there are a few more listening, not maybe not that many. 
But, you know, no, I mean, there's there's a reason there's a reason we don't do that. 
And and you're right. 
Radio, you never know how many people are out there. 
And we do tend to get many more listening on the air than listen online. 
But the reason that we can't at the moment take calls is because we are subject to FCC regulations and we don't have a delay system here. 
There's a delay system at the radio station, but we're not at the radio station. 
So if somebody says something unfortunate, we have to rely on somebody to be at the station monitoring it. 
And we don't know what's going on down there. 
So it's it's basically something that we can't take a chance on at this point. 
But we would love to be able to do that. 
Can you re-exume in-person broadcast? 
Many, many other programs have. 
Well, when they give the go ahead at BAI, that's that's not the case yet. 
I mean, they did. 
They did. 
Even even with his name, Sergeant, that, you know, was was off the studio for two years just this past Monday, you know, did a night shift live, which which was interesting. 
Well, I think there's I think there's a couple of things going on. 
I think overnight periods, late night periods have have less people in the station complex. 
But when we're on 7 p.m., there's more people there. 
And I think what they're doing is they're limiting it to a certain number of people. 
Also, our show has several people. 
So that would involve us being in the room, the studio, which itself has limited space with all the staff at the station, plus engineering. 
We don't want to put anybody at risk and necessarily dive right in before we we have any more information. 
So just for our own group, being a larger show, it's a little bit more complicated than one person doing it overnight. 
Right. 
We've got the entourage. 
We've got the limo driver. 
We've got the guy who brings us snacks, the popcorn machine. 
Absolutely. 
Well, that doesn't count as a person, but it's just there's so much that is involved. 
But, you know, as soon as we get to go ahead, we're we're in for sure. 
Okay. 
Now, for the meat and bone of this call, as I said, you did an amazing program tonight and congratulations. 
Thank you. 
I want to I want to hook up to straight to what Emmanuel said about the bully. 
You know, it's it's exactly what the situation is. 
But once you confront the bully, you have to blot his nose because otherwise it's not going to back down and it's going to get even more perturbed. 
You know, this is not just any bully. 
This is a Hitler situation. 
I think we all understand that, except for, you know, the lunatics on both ends of the political spectrum on the fringes. 
But, you know, it's a clear reference to what happened in 1938, 39. 
First, he started in Austria. 
Then it was Czechoslovakia. 
And then finally it was Poland. 
And then it was a world war. 
So I understand that this country doesn't want to get into it, but it's not a matter of not confronting him. 
We declared an economic war on him and it's quite clear. 
Now, you know, when you say, oh, we don't want the American pilots flying Mi-29 on Ukrainian airspace because there are air defenses on the ground and it could be dangerous. 
What are we paying them for? 
What are we spending, you know, three quarters of a trillion dollars a year? 
If you have the damn hardware, use it. 
Not the American pilots. 
The American pilots would deliver it to Ukraine and then the Ukrainians would do their thing. 
Now, if we look at all, dotting all the T's and, no, the I's and, you know, crossing all the T's, this guy, meanwhile, is killing people every minute, you know. 
And thank God his generals are also getting a little bit of their own medicine. 
And that's a good thing because he may get, you know, some thinking. 
But, you know, we are in a confrontation with the bully and the bully has to be blooded because otherwise it's just going to go on. 
Now, the U.S. 
government is normalizing this thing and you can see it in the markets today. 
The markets went berserk. 
They went up today and the oil more warringly went down. 
And as we all know, American congressmen and senators are all investors in the market. 
So, while they're talking tough on one hand, on the other hand, they're saying, oh, gee, let's not do something that would really upset my financial situation, which happens to be pretty good. 
Many are millionaires. 
There are a couple of billionaires in there, too, as we all know. 
I don't need to harp on that. 
But, you know, as for power to the people, it is happening. 
And I knew this a week ago when I heard on the BBC, it was over a week ago, you might have heard this report. 
It was late at night on NPR, the NPR station, which I don't need to mention, New York City carries BBC all night. 
You all know that. 
So, around 4.30, it came a conversation with a cyber warrior from an undisclosed location who said many of the things that you have said tonight. 
I knew them a week ago, but you also knew them a week ago. 
But, finally, the people, because of the scheduling. 
And it is true that many things happen either on a Thursday, and the program is on a Wednesday, or when you're off the air. 
Now, I don't think that Putin waited for you to be off the air to invade Ukraine, but many times I wanted to call, and I can't because, you know, this is the first time I get on and I'm depleting my Skype account. 
But never mind, it's worth it. 
So, you know, many things are announced on a Thursday, and, you know, so that they have a weak lead to prepare the defenses on what you and other people are going to say on the program. 
And I noticed that before. 
So, this undisclosed location, cyber warrior, said exactly what you say, that the Russians have tried many things, we have neutralized them, we are getting support from all over the world, and their war is not working. 
We are winning this war. 
And he said then, a week ago, in one week, there will be no internet in Russia. 
That's what he said. 
And he wasn't bragging. 
He was very calm and collected. 
He wasn't being arrogant. 
He just stated the facts. 
And, funny enough, now it seems that Russia is pulling out of the internet. 
So, he was prophetic. 
He said, in one week, there will be no internet in Russia, for whatever reason. 
Now, for some of the things that you have said concerning the domain names and the alternate net, it's also very interesting. 
Because, on one hand, they can build their own sites and put in their own content, which I forget who it was. 
It didn't mention the countries by name, but we know China does that, and many other countries that try to censor free expression. 
But, you know, I wonder, once they pull out, and they have all this alternative structure, if they ever try to get back in, what's going to happen? 
You know, it's a pretty radical step, if they do it for their own defense, as they see it. 
I don't know if it's a step that can be easily undone. 
So, you know, a lot of food for thought about what's going on. 
Now, the last thing I want to say concerns our State Department, because, you know, whenever something comes out of Russia, in terms of cyber attacks, their government always denies any connections to this. 
And, no, they're not connected. 
And we know not only they are connected, but they are guided by their own government. 
So, if something, you know, I have to disagree with Alex, and I disagree with him on many aspects, which I don't want to go into tonight. 
I just want to focus on this. 
Now, it's not a matter of not being too rash. 
Power to the people. 
The people are doing this. 
Let our State Department earn its taxpayers' money and put out their denials that they have nothing to do with this. 
And I want to see if they want to go after people in this country for doing what's right, and it's not state-inspired, and it's not state-sponsored, and it's just the people expressing themselves against the war. 
And I'm going to just hang up and listen online, and thank you so much. 
Thank you for that call. 
It's good hearing from you. 
I think that's a strong sentiment. 
And it's true that the deniability aspect with electronic warfare, or whatever we're calling it, is something that states really depend on. 
And that ability to distance and remove yourself from it and declare it as some rogue digital mercenary that you don't have anything to do with and all that, even if it was maybe bought and paid for or not. 
Or maybe some of your private associates handled it and you're mildly aware of it. 
There's all kinds of different ways stuff like this can occur, as well as the ways we're talking about with wide public activation doing really literally everything people can think of that is, in most cases, reversible. 
Stuff that is simply a statement, simply pushing and resisting the kinds of fear and control that we're led to believe is what we should be obeying. 
The comment about politicians, and I think that's valid in many ways in this country. 
Hang on, just to let people know what's going on here, the air raid sirens in Kyivog just started going off. 
We have a camera watching. 
This is going to go six times. 
We're not going to turn it down because we want to share the experience as much as we can. 
I think there is a delay in a lot of the reporting. 
There's a lot of people that have better imaginations, I think, and better understanding. 
They're good at gaming out what kind of a scenario, a crisis like this, what kinds of ends and options there are. 
I think a lot of this saw a week ago, two weeks ago, anticipated a lot of what we're now announcing or hearing about or hearing rumors about that is only then a little bit later codified or turned into something. 
And it's going to take weeks and months for a lot of the choices that private entities have decided for those to really finally set in. 
You imagine retail places, okay, they're going to shut down temporarily. 
Well, that means they're going to pay rent, but they're not going to be active. 
So you can see there's different levels and layers to it. 
To hold the U.S. 
accountable and to see the kind of political cravenness, I think the best antidote to that is pressure from other NATO actors. 
In other words, those countries have a say. 
And if they see America diverging or treating this in something other than the terms that the rest of NATO has collectively or the U.N., the national, not National Security Council, but the U.N., the wider General Assembly has agreed is egregious. 
Or that the Human Rights Court in The Hague has come to a conclusion, International Criminal Court, those kinds of entities need support. 
And yes, the U.S. 
may appear as though they're overly cautious or they're on a delay, but they can be influenced and bolstered by other nations. 
But we can't expect them to want to go running in and changing the course of this as though it is their immediate fight. 
We have been reminded over and over again that this is about Ukrainian sovereignty. 
And this is the world community, the members, those General Assembly nations and NATO leadership pointing out what is egregious violations and the world collectively holding the bad actor to account. 
So those are the things. 
But there's so much there in that call. 
I really appreciate the sentiment. 
I'm very thankful he called. 
And there are so many people out there who do have so much to share. 
And you're encouraged to do so. 
802-321-4225. 
And I guess that's the first time we've heard the sirens over the air. 
But boy, it hits you every time. 
We have this up quite a bit, actually, just to be reminded that people are going through hell. 
It's 3.30 in the morning in Kiev right now. 
Can you imagine trying to get through a night and then this happens? 
And now, you know, now we have to listen for sounds of rockets hitting or gunfire or all kinds of hell like that. 
And Kiev isn't even in the front lines yet. 
It's expected to be. 
But right now it's not. 
And throughout the rest of the country, all kinds of hell is being unleashed. 
Alex, I know you had something. 
Go ahead. 
Well, first of all, while you were talking, Kyle, and that was going off, it was really, really disquieting. 
Let me tell you, I found it very difficult to focus on anything that you were saying when there's an air raid siren going off. 
And you know that it's real. 
Yeah. 
Real and live. 
This is happening right now over there. 
And live. 
That's I didn't expect that. 
And it was really it was very, very jarring to me. 
But before we take the next call, I want to say I very much appreciate our previous caller calling. 
And I think that, you know, this is what WBAI in particular was designed for. 
It was designed for people to disagree with each other respectfully, to talk about the issues and and to move on. 
And sometimes we change each other's mind. 
I loved hearing that this caller usually disagrees with me and then agreed with me today. 
This is a thinking person. 
We have rational people listening to us discussing the issues. 
I mean, this is really this is this is what we're this is what it's supposed to be happening. 
Well, don't sound so surprised. 
We have lots of rational people. 
We also have a call. 
Who's probably a rational person. 
Let's see. 
All right. 
Let's let's see who's on the line. 
And good evening. 
You're on off the hook overtime. 
Good evening overtime. 
It's Wapson from Bulgaria. 
Yeah, from the Kiev time zone. 
You're in the same time zone as Kiev right now. 
So it's about three thirty in the morning. 
You probably didn't hear the air raid siren where you are, but we heard it here. 
Well, I heard it over the headphones. 
I was listening to our time on. 
So, yeah, not pleasant. 
No, it's never is. 
It never is. 
And, you know, we in the States, it's probably something the rest of the world would find bizarre. 
At least here on Long Island, we have a siren that goes off every day at noon just to tell you that it's noon. 
I can imagine people coming to this country, escaping the hell that's going on over there and hearing that at noon. 
I'm completely flipping out because what does this mean? 
And it's just to say, hey, it's noontime, lunchtime. 
How long does the siren go on telling you it's noon? 
Until it's one o'clock. 
No, no, no. 
Kidding, kidding. 
It only blows once. 
But, you know, we also have a system where it goes once if a volunteer ambulance is needed. 
I don't know what happens if an ambulance is needed at noon. 
I don't think that's ever happened. 
And if it's a fire, three times. 
That's it. 
That's our system. 
That sounds bearable. 
I had some comments about what you mentioned on the radio show. 
Go ahead. 
The site intervalssignals.net doesn't seem to be working at present. 
I was on it before. 
Are you sure you're spelling it right? 
Well, I'm getting to some weird setups on their end that make it inaccessible. 
Interval, single L, signals, .net, without, and with a dash. 
Yeah, no dash. 
Without the dash. 
Anyhow, it doesn't seem to be working. 
I just went to it now. 
I'll spell it out for you just to make sure you've got it right. 
I-N-T-E-R-V-A-L-S-I-G-N-A-L-S dot N-E-T. 
Yeah, I tried that. 
It didn't seem to be working all the way here. 
That's weird. 
For some reason, it's not working from Bulgaria. 
I don't have an explanation for that. 
But maybe try a VPN or something if it continues to be a problem. 
Well, I'm going to be next part of the... 
What you talked about earlier is getting a shortwave receiver to catch the BBC broadcasts. 
It's... 
We're going back to a, you know, a rather special time. 
Radio transmissions to foreign countries. 
Yeah. 
I'm not... 
I wish it wasn't the case. 
But, well, if they're going to be doing shortwave radio, I may be able to get a receiver to enjoy them on. 
I'm sure there are plenty still there, because that is how, when Bulgaria was behind the Iron Curtain, that's how you'd be able to listen to Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, and BBC, of course. 
That's how people did it. 
Oftentimes, it was illegal to do it. 
Well, that was 30 years ago or so. 
Yeah. 
Not that long ago. 
So... 
Well... 
Can I ask you, since you're in a country that's relatively close to what's going on, have you noticed any change in day-to-day life where you are? 
Well, I don't get out much, so no, I haven't. 
The numbers that are reported on the TV, there's... 
Tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees in the country now. 
And I haven't seen any, but... 
It's interesting, you know, after our last conversation a couple of weeks ago, when we were talking about the Black Sea, I, you know, and I suggest people do this. 
Take a look at the Black Sea. 
It's fascinating, all the countries that surround it. 
You know, Bulgaria, Moldova. 
Wait, Bulgaria is one of them, right? 
Or is it Romania I'm thinking of? 
Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, the Ukraine. 
Russia. 
And Russia. 
And I'm not... 
Is it Turkey? 
Is Turkey one of them? 
Turkey is one of them. 
Yeah. 
It's just a lot of countries bordering on that one body of water. 
Yep. 
Yep. 
So be careful you don't sail out too far. 
And the body of water is weird in itself. 
It's the... 
Part of its blackness is that it has the highest line of end of life. 
Basically, it's the least deep where any form of... 
Any life form sent to appear in the Black Sea than compared to other seas around the world. 
Okay. 
That's interesting. 
Do you know why that is? 
Well, there's chemicals in the deeper part of it, which are very explosive, unfortunately. 
Not that there's been any confirmation of it by explosions. 
But yes, research has shown that toxic stuff that's deeper than the end-of-life line is... 
Could be very explosive. 
Are these man-made chemicals or natural chemicals? 
Well, as far as I know, they are reportedly natural appearing. 
Well, I hope no one tries to nuke it because it's going to be very unpleasant. 
I mean, do you think that we're on the precipice of some kind of nuclear conflict in that area? 
Well, I hope not because... 
I mean, that's... 
Who's going to try and do something like that? 
If you're talking about Russia or some Russians who might be in the... 
I don't think they will be there. 
Does anyone in Skyplan have a question for Bobson? 
No? 
Okay. 
Well, Bobson, any final thoughts from you? 
Well, I think I'll wait a bit for the final thoughts. 
A few decades, maybe. 
Oh, yes. 
I have an unfortunate way of phrasing that. 
Okay. 
Have a great evening, everybody. 
All right. 
Good hearing from you. 
Keep in touch. 
All right. 
I'm doing my best. 
Stay safe. 
Bobson. 
Oh, now Alex has something to say. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Bobson, before you go, I just didn't think it was appropriate this week to discuss and compare groceries. 
Oh, for God's sake, Alex. 
Not again with the groceries. 
I just wanted to let you know that. 
I hope to resume our dialogue shortly. 
Well, I don't mind at all. 
Okay. 
Very good. 
All right. 
Excellent. 
We'll look forward to that on a future date. 
We all do. 
All right. 
Take care, Bobson. 
Hopefully, we'll talk to you again soon. 
Have a great night, everyone. 
You too. 
Get some sleep. 
3. 
3.30 in the morning. 
3.44 in the morning, actually, over there in Bulgaria and in Kiev and in Ukraine. 
And, you know, I suggest this to people. 
Look at a map. 
Look at the region. 
See where Georgia is. 
You know, see where Moldova is. 
Learn about these places. 
They're fascinating. 
That's why Kyle and I went over there, because we were fascinated by the culture, by the people. 
And it's so unfortunate that it's, you know, in this particular focal point right now. 
But that's just the nature of things. 
You going to pick it up, Kyle? 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
So, here we go. 
Another phone call. 
And good evening. 
You're on Off Talk Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
Phil, you're going to have to speak louder than that, because we can barely hear you. 
Oh, I'm sorry. 
Is that better? 
It's a little bit better, but, you know, feel free to get angry and shout. 
Well, how are you guys doing? 
It's been a rough week. 
It's been a rough couple of weeks. 
But, you know, we're doing fine. 
You know, it's worry about people in other parts of the world that's got us up at night. 
Yeah. 
I heard a little bit where somebody was talking about cutting off the Internet to Russia. 
I think that, basically, you need Putin to have some way to communicate with the outside world. 
You know what I mean? 
Uh-huh. 
You know, it's... 
The talk I'm hearing is coming from Russia themselves. 
You know, that they want to just cut off from the rest of the Internet. 
Yeah, more than the rest of the Internet. 
Well, that makes it even worse, don't it? 
I mean... 
Uh-huh. 
It's... 
I don't know. 
Let's talk about something more lighthearted, like the Trekker Convoy. 
Oh, okay. 
Yeah, if we can find humor in that. 
Go ahead. 
I sent an email to you guys with a couple of links for a couple of channels that live stream and stuff. 
Uh-huh. 
I might have seen some of that. 
These were actual videos of them in D.C. 
on the Beltway and stuff? 
Yeah, if you can call it that. 
It's basically them just stuck in traffic most of the time. 
I don't think they realized that D.C. 
already has traffic and that they just basically were more traffic and not many people noticed. 
Yeah, that's what I was saying. 
It's like, to my brother earlier, it's like, well, the Beltway is kind of built so you can't have a bunch of lines of cars like that, you know? 
Uh-huh. 
To try to... 
Well, anyway, last night they had a meeting. 
They live-streamed their meetings, too. 
Right. 
So, the guy comes on there and he talks about meeting up with Cruz and, who was it, Jordan or Johnson? 
Well, somehow, magically, Facebook took down the live-stream of that and so did YouTube. 
Okay. 
The only newspaper I saw a report on was, like, the Washington Post and maybe the Hill or something like that. 
I'm not sure why they take down the meeting unless they were asked to by the people who are giving the meeting. 
There's no real reason to take it down, as I can see. 
They're not really causing much of an effect anywhere. 
Well, it kind of makes me wonder if they actually met him, you know what I mean? 
If they actually what? 
If they actually met with Ted Cruz and him. 
Oh, I do know they were supposed to meet with Cruz and Johnson. 
I do know that. 
Yeah, that was yesterday. 
Yeah, I heard that being announced. 
And a couple of things that I heard today, they're basically hanging out in Hagerstown, which is Maryland. 
Yep. 
And they have that until the 24th. 
So, that's the plan, is for them to be in that area. 
It might not be that far off because there's a race there this weekend. 
And they don't know if they've got a place after tomorrow. 
Okay. 
Interesting. 
Yeah, I'll send you, I can email you the link where you can see these meetings. 
Oh, anyway, last night, they were going on about it. 
And people were kind of getting mad and fighting on the CB over this stuff because the commoic is getting broken up by traffic because it's D.C., just four lanes. 
Sounds like you're listening to Zello. 
60 miles. 
Sounds like you're driving 60 miles down to the Beltway to do this. 
Right. 
People aren't getting reimbursed for food and hotel and gas and all that. 
Reimbursed by who? 
Who's going to reimburse them? 
Supposedly the organizers. 
Really? 
Organizers. 
One of them, one is Mike Liston or something like that. 
I can't remember. 
Well, anyway, he was, he apparently pled guilty to fraud. 
Okay. 
Earlier this year or something like that. 
Well, the reason I was weird is because last night, they were, they were talking to him and they started talking weird like, well, now's the time that people can start going home to get people to show up in the state capitals and stuff like that. 
Yeah, yeah. 
They canceled the convoy today because of the rain. 
Well, it was cold. 
Are you, by the way, are you listening to them on Zello? 
Because, because that's where I get a lot of information. 
No, no. 
This is on YouTube. 
Okay. 
But you said on the CB. 
So I'm not sure if that's, if you're actually listening to their, their two-way radio. 
No, no, no. 
Okay. 
They, they, these checkers, they played their CBs. 
Well, they actually, live stream everything. 
So there's like eight, eight, ten hour videos where they're actually going to the place and doing this stuff. 
Interesting. 
One is named Sanska. 
Well, I've sent you the links. 
Just click on those links. 
They're there. 
Uh-huh. 
Well, anyway, the dude goes on about that and then he, about how everybody needs to start talking back home, getting people to go to the cap, the state capitals to bring his stuff up and everything, to protest there. 
Well, after he says that and everybody just kind of groans a little bit, he tells everybody he spent $50,000 to buy RFK Jr.'s book on Fauci. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
Yeah. 
I mean, it's, it's in those links, you, you, you, you've got to see to believe it. 
Uh, one guy, um, his name is, uh, Outlaw, Outlaw Ministries, Outlaw Reform, Outlaw Ministries. 
Okay. 
What's his channel? 
He's got a two-year-old kid. 
He carries around with him and it's in a minivan with his mom. 
Uh-huh. 
Um, and he's always broke. 
He doesn't have enough money to go out there. 
It turns out these guys are, are quitting their jobs and, uh, selling off their 401k stock. 
Um, it's sad to be able to do that. 
It's, I mean, you know, I, I do, I do hear some conversations, um, and, and they, you know, I, I, as I've said before, when we played the Canadian version of this, they seem like nice people, you know, they're getting along with each other. 
They're having a bit of a fun with, with a convoy, but then there are the darker people, the more serious ones who really see this as some kind of, uh, epic battle against, I don't know what. 
Um, one of the exchanges that I heard, uh, involved, uh, Washington DC and how they were just going to stay on the beltway, but they were not going to go into DC. 
Why? 
Because Washington DC is a foreign country. 
I don't know what they meant by that, but they all agree that Washington DC was a foreign country and January 6th is what proved that. 
And that's when they went off the rails and, and lost me completely. 
Well, they, they, they also said there's different laws in DC for some reason. 
Yeah. 
They keep freaking out when they drop past the, um, you know, the exit that goes to Arlington and has the Pentagon written on it right before you hit the bridge. 
Probably. 
When you go by the Washington Monument. 
Uh-huh. 
Yeah. 
They freak out at that because they think that the Pentagon is listening to them on that ramp way for some reason. 
And it's so easy to get caught up in this stuff. 
If you believe what you hear, you don't question things. 
The car that merges into the lane they're trying to convoy in is always Antifa or somebody. 
I've heard that. 
I, you know, I hear them live on, on, on the road and that, yeah, they're identifying cars and, and assuming that they're all out to get them. 
And it's, it's really kind of, kind of scary. 
Well, also, um, they had a lady there who was a, one of the Jen's, uh, January 6th, um, rioters, right? 
And she got released on bail. 
Mm-hmm. 
And she was there giving a speech to them. 
And talking about something about 1871, that all the elections were fake after that. 
And I, the only thing I'm assuming is, like, where they changed the inauguration date from March to, like, January 20th or whatever. 
Um, but it's, it's interesting, um, this girl, um, X, um, XOT, she's, uh, she's live streaming it now. 
And we live, when you click on the live link, you can go back, you can listen to the speech you're giving now about where they might lose their venue. 
And if they can't get a place in Virginia, they don't know what they're going to do. 
Well, you know what, my question is, what, what exactly do they want? 
The, all the mandates are disappearing because we're reaching points where we don't need them anymore. 
So what is it that they say? 
They say it's about the mandate. 
And then they say the media doesn't want anybody to know. 
They're not covering them cause they don't want anybody to know. 
And then they say that the government is actually letting them have freedom of speech as a, as like some kind of trick. 
Okay. 
Because they don't, they're actually not letting them have their freedom of speech, but yet they're letting them have their freedom of speech. 
It's a lot of weird stuff. 
It really is. 
It really, and they sound like nice people, but, uh, boy, they, they have bought into some, some really interesting things. 
Rob, I know you have something to add. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 
That's, that's the trouble with a certain mindset that, uh, it is so easy to fall into when, uh, when you end up in these sort of echo chambers. 
It's where you're just getting a lot of bad info and it's, uh, designed to click with, uh, someone who's uncertain about things. 
And you get to a point where you're just taking in all this bad data and then acting on it. 
And, uh, then, then it gets to a point where like you could, you could try and rationally explain something away to somebody, but, uh, then their perception will just shift to make it something else. 
And it's like, oh, well, that's not really what's, uh, what's making my life miserable. 
Oh, well, it must be this other thing. 
And you're just going to get into cycles like that. 
And, uh, so many people I'm, I'm sure on this program and listening to this program have had experiences with maybe a friend or a family member who they've tried to have a rational discussion about these things with, and the discussion just wasn't clicking. 
And it is because it is, it is so easy and like the environment of the media and just the way everything is set up now is designed to manipulate a vulnerable mind at its most vulnerable and, uh, and go from there. 
And it's really, really hard to counteract that. 
It's scary. 
It's scary what, uh, what people are doing. 
I would also say that, um, the, the ease of, um, the democratization of the tools that are used to create media has made it incredibly, uh, affordable to produce content that is very rich, very engaging. 
It may have, uh, pictures, it may have, uh, uh, deep explanations and, and that, uh, medium itself, uh, uh, lends to a sort of passive consumption. 
We, we've known about this, about television and all of that, um, for a very, very long time. 
And for all the reasons people would be skeptical of mainstream media or skeptical of a, a government produced video, well, you should have the same energy when it comes to, uh, self-produced stuff that has no footnotes, that cites, you know, specious sources and makes really grandiose, um, uh, unusual and bizarre claims. 
Uh, it's not expensive to create that. 
And, uh, and yet it is incredibly powerful. 
It is just as powerful as, um, the film and television formats and, and radio, uh, are in, in other realms. 
I guess democratization is the right word, but it just feels wrong to call that democratization because it, it leads to something bad. 
It leads to everybody, uh, spouting forth with nonsense and having every, every opinion, every opinion, uh, uh, weighed equally. 
But you have to hear me when I say this, I'm talking about the tools themselves. 
I'm not talking about the, the publishers. 
I'm not talking about the curators, the people that are, that are creating the content. 
I'm just saying that the tools are cheap enough that anybody can make stuff that is, um, convincing no matter how stupid or untrue those claims may be. 
And that takes us back to the theme that we have been on for our entire existence that, um, uh, you know, computers, technology, um, they are tools. 
They are tools that can be used for good or for bad, and you can't judge them based on what the tools are. 
You can judge the actions of the people who use those tools. 
So, yeah, I think it, um, I think it, uh, it, it, it matches that pretty well. 
Uh, caller, any, any last words from you? 
We're going to try to open it up to some more people. 
Well, um, it was ZOT, not XOT. 
I'm sorry, but she's from Canada, right? 
Oh, we don't know who the people are. 
Vaccinated. 
Yeah, she was, she was not vaccinated or anything like that. 
She was able to get into the United States, which goes against what these guys are arguing that there's a mandate for vaccines and all that. 
You can do a virtual who's who of these people. 
You seem to know a lot of them, and you could probably write a book about this. 
Yeah, that's not about trying to do an expose, giving it to the local paper, but, um, this, um, this whole thing is like, um, it, it, they, they say they're friends with RFK Jr., and they bought $50,000 worth of his books. 
The truckers are going to do curbside things at Chile to get food and stuff like that when they're complaining about mask mandates, right? 
Um, they're always begging for money. 
That's why they, that's why they keep these 10-hour videos up there, because they monetize it on YouTube to try to get money out of it. 
Wow. 
Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's just, that the, that one guy, the, uh, outlaw guy, he, he was complaining that he didn't have enough money to have a hotel and get back home and all that, because he only had a thousand bucks to his name. 
And he was looking at hotels and said, well, I'm, I'll keep the baby in the back seat in the cold if I have to use a mask. 
I know. 
I heard that. 
I heard that someplace where, uh, somebody said they'd rather keep their kid in a, in a cold car than go into a hotel that requires a mask, a mask just to walk through the hallway because you don't have to wear a mask inside the hotel room. 
But for God's sake, that's, that's child abuse as far as I'm concerned. 
They, they, they won't even go down to DC to visit any new sites. 
They're not even visiting the town to go out to the bars or anything like that. 
Yeah, it's a foreign country. 
They won't go to DC. 
Yeah. 
Uh, yeah, that's true. 
Um, but they are actually live streaming inside our hotel rooms all day, just a really crappy hotel room that they have to beg for money for, and they won't do, they won't do Super Chat anymore. 
They want PayPal exclusively now. 
Um, but they keep begging for money for gas and everything. 
They're starting to complain about how much gas it's costing them to drive 60 miles just to go once or twice around the Beltway. 
Yeah. 
It's, it's rather unfortunate for them that this is when all the gas prices are going up. 
Bad time to be doing this. 
Yeah. 
It's kind of a blessing to be honest. 
Well, for, for others it is, but not for them. 
That's discouragement enough. 
Uh-huh. 
And it's got nothing to do with the, with the, with the virus. 
And they like manufacture grievances so they can come up with all kinds of reasons to blame it and rationalize why they're not out there. 
That's perfect. 
Good for them. 
Ukraine is like a, like a liberal plot to keep the attention off of them. 
Oh my God. 
Um, ZOT was like, they, they apparently don't cater. 
They potluck everything. 
Mm-hmm. 
And, um, the ZOT chick went and got some food and, um, she, they, they made sure to make sure it was low formic acid because that is genocide or something. 
It's, it's weird stuff, but you know, it's kind of entertaining to be honest. 
Uh, again, write a book. 
You got a lot of material here. 
You really do. 
And I'm sure there's a film option that'll come out of this. 
Maybe, maybe record some of the audio. 
Definitely record some of the audio. 
Now get on, get on Zello and, uh, they have channels there and they're talking all the time. 
So you can, you can actually, well, you don't need it. 
Like I said, they're, they're just live streaming everything they do anyway. 
Well, then make sure you, make sure you capture it because it disappears as you, as you noticed it disappears. 
So capture it so you, you can go back. 
Oh, okay. 
It may turn into something really interesting. 
All right. 
Good hearing from you. 
Stay well. 
And, uh, we'll talk to you again. 
All right. 
Thank you. 
Bye. 
All right. 
Take care. 
And, um, I think we have time for one more call. 
802-321-4225-802321. 
Hack or the toll-free option 833-755-2600. 
Skyplan? 
Go ahead. 
Anything from Skyplan? 
Um, just, uh, one thing that's, uh, been coming to mind is, uh, we've been watching all this go down and now we're seeing for the first time in quite a while, uh, the, the headlines are starting to involve the words Russia and nuclear at the same time. 
Um, and, uh, I know for sort of the, the, the Gen Xers and the people who grew up before that, um, bits of this are starting to feel very familiar and it's, uh, it's cast sort of a, a gloom over, over, uh, the thing that, um, um, I, I, I saw someone online say to someone younger, oh, is this your first Cold War? 
And, uh, yeah, we're, we're, we're back in, we're, we're back into that stuff now. 
And, uh, you know, for, for someone who grew, who grew up being scared of certain things and then later on went on to feel like, oh yeah, that was, that was just kind of a boogeyman. 
Thank goodness it never happened. 
And now seeing, oh wait, the boogeyman might be real again. 
It's exhausting. 
Yeah. 
You know, I just have a real problem with acting on what might happen, you know, being, being judged because of what you might have done or not doing something because of what this person might do. 
I, I, I prefer to focus on what's actually going on now and what is the right reaction to that and what is the right consequence for what you actually did do. 
You know, it's, um, right now I see so much suffering, horror, injustice, and, and we need to act on that in whatever way we can. 
But the worst thing to do is to, um, is to turn away from it or, or say we can't, we can't do too much or it might be, it might be seen as a bad thing. 
All right. 
We have that last call. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the hook over time. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 
Hello? 
Yes. 
Go ahead. 
You're on, you're on right now. 
Oh, okay. 
Yeah. 
Um, I just wanted to give a suggestion, uh, for the show. 
A what now? 
A suggestion. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 
My suggestion, cause I don't know how you guys actually stream on YouTube, uh, because in other words, even though you're streaming live, there is no, there's no like chat box. 
We can't do like live chat. 
In other words, we can't send messages on the, uh, on the, uh, on the show. 
Mm-hmm. 
Yeah. 
That's what I'm trying to say. 
We call that a feature. 
You know, we call that a feature. 
That man from Bulgaria calling or whatever, maybe I had a, I had a, you know, I would have like to ask him a couple of questions, maybe like type the questions in that you can ask him, but you don't have live chat. 
I'm just trying to ask why, why don't you guys have live chat on this? 
Uh, because personally I feel live chat has taken over everything. 
It's a distraction and, uh, it invites the worst from people. 
Uh, and also there's no guarantee that Bobson is going to want to get on a live chat, uh, you know, as well as, as talk to us on the phone. 
Also, we don't get to hear your call or like, we don't get to hear you and you don't get to participate in the same way, like, like, uh, in an audio format. 
Yeah. 
I mean, you can, you know, there's all kinds of, uh, go ahead, Rob, you was going to. 
Yeah. 
Uh, just, um, caller, this is the live chat. 
Um, this is what we're trying to invite. 
Uh, we would be doing it if we were, if we could do it on the radio. 
The reason we're doing over time is because we couldn't take the phone calls and that's what we're interested in. 
We're interested in having a two-way conversation with somebody who's listening to the program, who's interested in what we're saying. 
But Rob, the caller wants to chat with the other listeners and, and leave us out of it. 
Yeah. 
We're no longer part of it. 
You want to just basically spin off and, and, and, and talk about behind our back. 
Maybe ask him a question. 
Like you, there was a couple of weeks ago, you had a guy from China calling you and he was saying all these interesting things. 
And I would have loved to like type a question in that you can ask him while you had him on the phone. 
Uh-huh. 
I don't know if he had time to stay on a chat though, because he had to go to work right afterwards. 
I think he only had time for the phone call. 
Yeah. 
We, we can't control necessarily the, you know, everybody's availability. 
Um, but in the past we've used at hacker radio show, the Twitter handle to, um, field sometimes, but we can't, we're not committed to making that a part of the show. 
Yeah. 
But here's the thing. 
And we've also had IRC in the past. 
There is an IRC channel. 
Uh, but that is also something that we don't necessarily monitor during the show, but other people like Bobson and, and, uh, community members are talking very frequently there. 
Yeah. 
You see, we probably use this less than anybody else because we're doing, we're doing, we're on the air while it's, while it's there. 
So we're not actually familiar with what it looks like. 
But one thing I think does exist is after the show is there, is there not a place for comments and can people interact through the comments? 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Well, how is that? 
What's wrong with that? 
It was, I just, I hope, I hope they give, you know, with what's going on in Russia right now, I just hope they give Putin some kind of way to get out of this gracefully. 
Well, yeah. 
I get the feeling he wants to get out of this, but it's got to be a way that way he can save space. 
I just hope they give him some type of way, some type of confession so he can get out of this and say, yeah, I achieved something. 
Well, you know, there have been so many opportunities where I think that could have happened in the past. 
For instance, when the Soviet Union fell, I think that was a great opportunity for Russia to be more, you know, brought into the Western sphere a bit. 
But I think more recently, and most people don't agree with me on this, but I think, you know, since Crimea has a history of being part of Russia in the past, and the only reason is part of the Ukraine is because Khrushchev signed it over in the 50s for no particular reason. 
And also the breakaway republics, mostly Russian, don't want to be part of Ukraine. 
You know, if the deal was, okay, you keep that, but Ukraine becomes part of NATO, you never invade them. 
I think that might have worked, but that's not going to happen now. 
I see everybody shaking their head, but I still think that might have worked. 
Ukraine should have kept their nuclear weapons in 93 when they broke up. 
They should have kept those weapons. 
I don't know about that. 
I don't know. 
And the thing is, they're being accused of that now by Russia and by conspiracy people of having nukes and all kinds of things, which is simply not true. 
I don't think the answer is to give the guy a cookie. 
I really don't think so. 
And, you know, you look at the situation now, you have like nuclear facilities, you have a site of a former reactor accident in Chernobyl. 
I think they're on there. 
They don't have generators now. 
They've lost power. 
The situation is a lot more serious, I think, than relitigating what was in whatever decade we want to get into. 
But the call is right. 
He does need a way to save face in order to get out of this gracefully. 
Otherwise, how does he get out of this? 
And, you know, the only solution I can think of is a coup. 
And, you know, a coup in Russia makes the rest of the world kind of nervous because then you have an unstable nuclear giant. 
So he's not going to stop. 
He's just going to keep doing it. 
I don't think he's ever going to stop. 
Well, I take issue with people who compare him to Hitler, you know, basically taking over country after country. 
I don't think he has the strength for that. 
I don't think he has the popular will for that. 
You know, if he can't even get Ukraine, he's not going to get anywhere else. 
And it's simply going to be taxing on the entire society. 
And I think that's where he'll be forced out domestically. 
Yeah, he's burned every offering. 
By the way, there's a report online right now that he's considering using chemical and biological weapons. 
U.S. 
intelligence is saying that. 
I don't know. 
Yeah. 
And, you know, Assad in Syria has done the same thing. 
And, you know, he's good friends with Putin. 
So it's entirely possible. 
Entirely possible. 
Anyway, I love your show. 
Have a great night. 
All right. 
Take care. 
Thanks for calling. 
Go ahead, Kyle. 
Yeah, I just it's it is that moment when I think it is very important to look at the alternative and are you agreeing to a future where we acquiesce to this while where we basically, you know, let whomever go in, they get the contracts to rebuild. 
And we just we continue to do business with everybody that approves of this around the world. 
My point is it never should have gotten to this stage in the first place. 
You know, if if if there had been some kind of rational back and forth well before this, we might have been able to avoid going down this road. 
It's a moot point now because here we are. 
And I don't have any easy solutions. 
You guys over in Skyplan, any any solutions to this whole world issue? 
Oh, yeah, but I'm I've decided to instead of sharing it on the radio, mint it as an NFT. 
No, no, I really don't. 
Alex, you look like you have something to contribute. 
Yes, I do. 
As a matter of fact, I'm going to bring it all the way back to what we were talking about a long time ago, Russian embassy dot net. 
Yes. 
What about it? 
So Russian embassy dot net. 
We were talking about, you know, who's behind this. 
Right. 
I think I have an idea. 
Does it really matter who's behind it? 
The fact is it's a resource and it's a useful resource. 
Well, it's interesting, though. 
It's interesting. 
And I was going to give a little teaser about this at the end of off the hook. 
So I might as well just do it at the tail end of overtime. 
OK. 
Over here. 
So if you look at all the DNS data on Russian embassy dot net, you see the location looks like the United States because it's hosted behind Cloudflare. 
OK. 
So those are the NS records. 
But there's mail server records that relate to EMEA dot MX logic dot net. 
So that's usually the Middle East. 
And then there's a subdomain on top of that for the mail server records. 
So this embassy, I'm sorry, Russian embassy dot net has a mail server record. 
Isc travel dot com dot inbound dot EMEA dot MX logic dot net. 
So that's very odd. 
And you take a look at the records for isc travel dot com and you have their MX records, discovery dot isc travel dot com. 
They're also behind Cloudflare. 
So it's very likely that these two sites are connected. 
Right. 
OK. 
So isc travel dot com. 
I'll just go right back to it right now. 
So is a travel agency that is a tour company in Russia. 
Interesting. 
Yeah. 
So it's and remember, you have to have a a visa, you know, that that includes an invitation to go into Russia. 
So you're saying this could be some this could be a service that Russia offers to people wanting to travel to Russia so they can go to the consulate or the embassy and get the get the right paperwork. 
Well, then, if that's the case, I would suggest that we grab this data ASAP before it disappears because it very well might. 
Yeah, that's right. 
But what's interesting, too, is this this travel agency knows that it's important that the the addresses of the embassies are located so that you can go and apply for a visa and you couldn't otherwise find it. 
So they're the ones that created this resource. 
Right. 
Right. 
Interesting. 
Yeah. 
Bizarre. 
Yeah. 
So that data is something that is very valuable right now. 
And it could be gone. 
It could be gone. 
So if you know how to grab it, please do. 
If anyone out there knows how to grab it, please do so. 
Otherwise, we might not know the telex numbers to use. 
It's a challenge. 
Can anybody use telex to send them a message? 
But the Internet Archive probably will have some, you know, people like Jason Scott, right, will probably have some. 
You're right. 
You're right, actually. 
In fact, I happen to know for a fact that they do. 
So if you go back, I think, to March 2nd. 
They won't not index the entire site. 
They might not index more than four or five pages deep. 
But they will index all of the countries. 
So you can click on a country on there. 
So, yeah, it will. 
Okay. 
I was being paranoid. 
It will be there. 
But this is invaluable information if you're looking to have a protest or send a petition or call or fax or, again, telex, whatever that is. 
And it's important to have that information out there. 
I guess that's it. 
We ran out of things to talk about? 
I think we should take another call. 
No, we're not going to take another call, Alex. 
We're tired. 
We're done. 
We're done. 
Kyle's got the phone off the hook, in fact. 
I mean, I know what happens when the calls stop coming. 
Uh-huh. 
You didn't have to sever the cord. 
Why did you do that? 
Now we have to find a new handpiece, mouthpiece there. 
Any final words from you guys? 
Just, you know, keep in touch. 
Send us an email. 
And I'm going to repeat what I asked for on the broadcast portion of our program, which is, if you know of efforts that the hacker community are taking, can take, could potentially take, to directly help those in Ukraine who are dealing with the invasion and all the associated chaos, get in touch with us. 
O-T-H at 2600.com. 
Tweet at us, Hacker Radio Show. 
Let us know. 
And we want to know what's out there. 
We want to know what's going on. 
We want to know what we can help with. 
Yeah, I think a lot of that is going to involve technical solutions to, you know, websites being cut off. 
And this applies not only to people in Ukraine, but the resistance in Russia as well. 
People who need to stay in touch. 
People who need to organize with others. 
And we need to help that out as much as we possibly can. 
So any creative solutions from the hacker community definitely would be welcome, something that we will help with. 
Alex, did you have something? 
I would just like to end with a note that, you know, just like on our radio show, it's okay for people to disagree and be from different places, different mindsets and things. 
And, you know, this is about what we've been talking about all night is a war that relates to one man, one person, not the Russian people. 
The Russian people, you know, should remember that foreign policy is dictated by domestic politics. 
And we support them and we support them and their bravery to rise up and oppose this madman. 
Gila, anything? 
Uh, no. 
I mean, I absolutely agree with everything. 
It's turn your powerlessness into power. 
Take action. 
Do something. 
Anything. 
Do something. 
Amen. 
Kyle? 
Yeah, let's just like, uh, not lead with fear for another 40 years or whatever. 
It's, uh, it's not a future I want to live in. 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
I don't think any of us do. 
All right, folks. 
Thank you for, um, um, for listening. 
Our email address, OTH at 2600.com. 
Back again next week on BAI at seven and on YouTube channel 2600 at eight. 
Please, uh, stay awake, stay alert, be aware of injustice, and share your information. 
Talk to you later.