We're sorry, the number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now off the hook. 
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. 
I cut myself while shaving, now I gotta make a call. 
We're turning it much worse, but if they could they would. 
Wonderly bound for the best, expect the worst. 
I hope that's understood. 
Wonderly bound. 
And a very good evening to everybody. 
The program is Off the Hook. 
Emanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle. 
Yeah, I'm over here. 
Wow. 
The miracles that you work to get us on the air. 
We have, in Skypland over there, we have Rob T. Firefly. 
Good evening. 
We have Gila. 
Good evening. 
And we have Alex. 
Hello, everyone. 
And do we have our guest yet, or is our guest coming later? 
We do indeed. 
We do indeed. 
Okay, because there's no video. 
We have Emma Best from Distributed Denial of Secrets. 
Is that correct? 
Yep. 
Okay. 
That verification is all I need. 
Okay, let's launch into some of the developments. 
We're going to get to Emma in a minute. 
But there are so many interesting things going on concerning this war, this invasion, this mass casualty event, this genocide. 
All the words that we can use that we can't use in Russia, if we even tried to say this over the air in Russia, they'd come for us very quickly. 
Okay, so this is something that I think is fascinating. 
And I'm curious what you folks think about this. 
Meta, our friends over at Meta, it used to be just Facebook, but now it's Meta platforms. 
They've decided to allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion. 
That's according to internal emails that Reuters revealed on Thursday. 
It's a temporary change to its hate speech policy. 
Always interesting when the hate speech policy changes. 
Now, they're also temporarily allowing some posts that call for death to Russian President Vladimir Putin or Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko. 
That's according to internal emails to its content moderators. 
Here's a quote from a Meta spokesperson. 
As a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we have temporarily made allowances for forms of political expression that would normally violate our rules, like violent speech, such as, they give examples, death to the Russian invaders. 
We still won't allow credible calls for violence against Russian civilians. 
The calls for the leaders' deaths will be allowed unless they contain other targets or have two indicators of credibility. 
They're allowed one, but you can't have two, like the location or method. 
So, in other words, if you were to say, boy, we should kill Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, that would be allowed because that's one credible indication of credibility. 
He is in the Kremlin. 
But if you were to add something to that, saying, what would be another thing? 
Because location, time? 
I think, yeah, at 8, 10. 
Okay, but how is that credibility? 
That's just a choice, you know? 
I'm not really sure. 
I'm a little confused. 
I think that makes it more urgent. 
Meta, we need a little bit more guidance here. 
Now, citing the writer's story, Russia's embassy in the United States demanded that Washington stop the extremist activities of Meta. 
Good luck with that. 
Users of Facebook and Instagram did not give the owners of these platforms the right to determine the criteria of truth and pit nations against each other. 
I can't really argue with that. 
No, we didn't give them the right to pit nations against each other, but that's where we are right now. 
The temporary policy changes on calls for violence to Russian soldiers apply to the following countries, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, and Ukraine. 
I guess we still can't do it from here. 
In the email recently sent to moderators, Meta highlighted that this was a change in its hate speech policy, as we mentioned. 
We're issuing a spirit of the policy allowance to allow T1 violent speech. 
T1 violent speech. 
Am I supposed to know what that means? 
That would otherwise be removed under the hate speech policy when A, targeting Russian soldiers except prisoners of war, or B, targeting Russians when it's clear that the context is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 
That is, content mentions the invasion, self-defense, et cetera. 
We are doing this because we have observed that in this specific context, Russian soldiers is being used as a proxy for the Russian military. 
The hate speech policy continues to prohibit violence on Russians. 
Many major social media platforms have announced new content restrictions around the conflict, including blocking Russian state media, RT, and Sputnik in the European Union, and have demonstrated carve-outs in some of their policies during the wars. 
It should be noted also that we've been talking about RT and the various lies that they've been spreading, but also how fascinating it is to see what they're saying. 
And each week, it's harder to get them. 
Last week, you could get them on YouTube. 
No more. 
You have to go to RT.com and go through that whole thing where you get checked out to make sure you're not trying to attack them. 
And then you can witness the absurdity that they say to a never-diminishing group of people. 
Emails also show that MEDA would allow praise of the right-wing Azov battalion, which is normally prohibited. 
Apparently, they're a right-wing supremacist group of one sort or another. 
The MEDA spokesperson previously said the company was for the time being making a narrow exception for praise of these people in the context of defending Ukraine or their role as part of the Ukraine National Guard. 
But that's it. 
That's it. 
I can't say any more beyond that because once they do, it starts getting ugly. 
I don't know, folks. 
What do you think of this? 
Is this healthy? 
Is this disturbing? 
Is this something to be expected? 
Who first? 
It's really fascinating to see how the goalposts are redefined because ostensibly, some place like Facebook, MEDA, whatever, would say, okay, let's have rules against being a terrible person. 
And calling for the deaths of people is generally frowned upon, I think, in polite society. 
But now that we have bad guys and good guys in a situation, the rules change, of course. 
And I'm not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. 
It's just a very interesting thing. 
It reminds me of going back to the Cold War of the 80s in which I grew up and in which it was acceptable to have certain nationalities as the bad guys on films or TV shows or whatever. 
Alex, go ahead. 
Yeah. 
Building on that, too, I think Facebook, MEDA, has such a checkered past when it comes to hate speech online. 
If you look at - actually, coincidentally, the article in the recent issue of 2600 that I published in Artificial Interruption talks a lot about what happened in Myanmar and hate speech that was propelled by Facebook's algorithms there that led to physical violence against the Rohingyas. 
And so with this checkered past, I think it's particularly dangerous for Facebook to start changing up its policies on an ad hoc basis whenever geopolitical winds change. 
It seems to me like it would be better to have a consistent policy applied across the board with respect to violence. 
Now, the other thing that goes hand in hand with these types of posts that can be vitriolic and can gather a lot of attention, some support, some detractors, I mean in a sense you have to think about this as benefiting Facebook. 
Because the more vitriolic the posts, the more likely there are to be additional eyeballs on those particular posts. 
And the more eyeballs, the more engagement, the more engagement, the more data, the more data, the more advertisement. 
And we're back to 2016. 
Yeah. 
We've all experienced that. 
Aguila, did you have something? 
I do. 
I guess my other question is when this policy gets changed back, if this policy gets changed back, are they going to require people to then delete what they had written? 
Or is this going to be another case of when the moderators look the other way about hate speech, which happens a lot, certain types of hate speech tend not to rise to the level of tend not to be considered the level of actionable. 
And I'm also concerned that, not concerned, but I guess my question is if this becomes acceptable discourse for now, is that a switch that's going to be that easily turned off? 
Good point. 
Good point. 
Kyle, anything? 
Yeah, it's unusual and really specific. 
It speaks to something that I guess is acute going on on the platform and also something they want to point out. 
Specifically, it seems like of all the varieties of things they moderate, this specific one got a lot more attention in the moment. 
I just wonder if it's right to expect people to hold back when they're being attacked in any situation. 
Why just in this situation? 
Why not say the Palestinian issue? 
People can say death to Israeli soldiers who are massacring them on the West Bank or something. 
That's something that Facebook would clamp down on, but not this. 
This is something that is, I think, understandable. 
We're all angry. 
We all want to express ourselves and do something. 
And I can certainly understand people seeing their homes and villages destroyed using rather emphatic language. 
And Facebook should not be there to tell them they can't talk like that. 
When people are being oppressed in any way, you have to expect this sort of reaction. 
But then there's a line that you have to worry about because if you allow calls to violence in one situation, somebody is going to test that and say, well, I'm going to say calls to violence in this situation when they're not in nearly the same kind of desperate straits that we're talking about here. 
And at the end of the day, it's not like people are very quick to shout free speech. 
But, of course, MEDA is a private company. 
And at the end of the day, they get to decide what it is they want to host on their machines and let people do in their little walled gardens. 
But it's interesting to see, like, are the things that they're allowing to stay to then be taken as, I don't know, does MEDA approve of calls for violence against the Russian soldiers or praising the Ukrainian freedom fighters who are fighting back against the invasion by hosting the material? 
Well, I think their position would have to be that they don't approve anything that's said on their platform. 
They're simply hosting that particular conversation or discourse. 
That's what I would imagine. 
Alex, does that seem like something they would say legally? 
Yeah, of course. 
And that's how they would get their Section 230 immunity, the fact that they are just hosting the content. 
It's going through their network, going through their services without much editorial control on their part. 
The more editorial control they exert over the platform in these types of instances, I think the less likely they can be considered a communication service provider where information is just flowing through their network. 
All right, moving on. 
There are all kinds of fronts in this war right now, and the digital front is the one that we're particularly interested in tonight. 
Now, you may have heard of the loosely knit group Anonymous. 
Well, they've been busy. 
They've been extremely busy. 
Their affiliate groups have sent 7 million text messages to Russian citizens about the war in Ukraine, 7 million. 
While another group has hacked more than 400 security cameras in the country with anti-war messages. 
These guys are great. 
Anonymous hacktivists are claiming to have hacked into hundreds of public surveillance cameras installed across Russia to post messages against the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, and in support of Ukraine. 
It's worth noting that the hacktivists originally announced the hack on March 7th. 
However, at the time this article came out on hackread.com, most targeted cameras were still compromised and displaying content left by the group. 
Now, according to Anonymous, they've compromised more than 400 security cameras in Russia, displayed anti-propaganda messages. 
The hacktivist collective has also compiled live feeds from more than 100 Russian CCTV cameras and posted them on their newly launched website, which unfortunately I don't have the URL for. 
They left that out of the article. 
But they say the point of this leak is solely to spread information to the Russian people and potentially, although unlikely, use these cameras for recon. 
Since most of these cameras are in deep Russia and some near the border cities of Ukraine, this is mainly a large anti-propaganda movement. 
We are, however, working on cameras in Belarus, Ukraine, and closer to the Ukraine conflict in Russia that will be used entirely for recon for the Ukrainian military. 
That dump will come next. 
Anonymous has categorized the hacked cameras into these labels. 
Businesses, outdoor, indoor, restaurants, offices, schools, and security offices, which explains the extensiveness of hacking. 
In most cases, Anonymous superimposed English text messages over live feeds such as the following. 
Putin is killing children. 
352 Ukraine civilians dead. 
Russians lied to 200rf.com. 
Slava, Ukraine hacked by Anonymous. 
The 200rf.com website is set up by Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry to allow Russian relatives to identify Russian soldiers either captured or killed during the war. 
In another incident, Squad 303, a newly formed digital army comprising Anonymous Associated Programmers, sent out over 7 million SMS messages to cell phone numbers all across Russia. 
They created a tool called 1920.in to allow non-technical individuals to contribute to OpRussia, which is dubbed the world's largest cyber operation to date. 
This campaign aimed to inform the Russian public about the war in Ukraine. 
Within 48 hours, the group sent out 2 million text messages, and by Tuesday, the SMS count had reached 5 million. 
In a video, Squad 303 stated they are trying to help Ukraine. 
We have a message for the citizens of the free world. 
The Legion is calling you. 
Ukraine needs you. 
You are the largest army in the history of the world. 
You don't need any weapons or ammunition. 
Your weapons are smartphones, and your ammo is messages sent to Russian citizens. 
Signed, Anonymous. 
Squad 303. 
I don't know. 
I'm not sure what you guys think about this, but to me, these folks are heroes because they're getting the word out. 
They're basically driving nails into the invaders, people that are doing horrible things. 
Like, for instance, today, bombing a bomb shelter, a theater in Ukraine, killing untold numbers of people. 
And while not everybody can get out there and fight, everybody can do something. 
And this, this is something. 
Thoughts? 
Absolutely. 
It's, you know, we've said time and again on this program that the perfect antidote to bad information is good information, and getting that good information out there is something that I think most, if not all, of the hacker community would agree is essential, not just in this situation, but in general. 
And the people who are working to make that happen in an environment that is very currently hostile to that sort of thing you can't say enough good things about them, I think. 
Yeah, it's like simple, direct, coordinated, and very widely distributed. 
And that direct communication, not unlike nuisance calls or messages, is personal. 
It's going right to people. 
I really like the idea of those overlays on surveillance systems and just novel ways to get a simple message across. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
I will take my usual role here as devil's advocate in many ways, of course. 
But I think the intention behind all of this is laudable. 
And I think the reason for doing this is also worth examining in that Russia has really isolated its citizenry from the truth. 
And, you know, not only have they cut off Facebook but limited TikTok, all of the major social media platforms are not actively engaging with Russian citizens at the moment. 
News stations have been closed down. 
Foreign news is difficult to acquire. 
And Putin has, since way before the outset of this war, been spewing misinformation about the reasoning behind the invasion, as well as what's actually happening on the ground. 
And New York Times reporting from the last few days has indicated very clearly that many people in Russia do not believe that Russia is targeting civilians and believes that any of the information that's coming from Ukraine is, in fact, false. 
They believe their government. 
They believe and trust their government. 
And there are many, many people who do not. 
But there are, on the other hand, many, many people who do. 
So the fact that you have to resort to this type of illicit behavior to get the truth out to people in Russia, that is extraordinarily problematic. 
Now, with respect to the intention behind the loosely knit group Anonymous and whoever is doing this, I think it's a laudable intention. 
But sometimes even the most well-intentioned of activities can have unintentional but foreseeable consequences. 
And one of those foreseeable consequences, to my mind, could be the escalation of this war, dragging in other countries and giving Russia a pretextual reason to blame perhaps the United Kingdom or the United States, depending upon wherever these loosely knit group members of Anonymous are located. 
If there's any kind of attribution that the Russians can do and can point to, they might claim that that's an act of war. 
I'm not sure Russia would want to do that because then it could drag in native nations. 
But the point being here is that I think even the most well-intentioned actions here can spill over and have unintentional consequences. 
And when we're talking about conflicts between nuclear powers, that's dangerous. 
Well, you know, I counter that by saying that not doing something also has consequences. 
And in this particular case, sending millions of text messages, I'm not sure anybody would consider that an act of war. 
Hacking security cameras, not really something I would consider akin to an invasion. 
I think we have to use our imagination and come up with ways to actually reach out to people. 
That's the strongest thing, the strongest weapon that I think we as individuals have. 
Now, you know, we have a perception. 
We have a perception of what things are like in Russia right now. 
And I guarantee you it's not accurate. 
We assume everybody is just basically toeing the line and that the country is in misery and just a horrible, oppressive place. 
It's actually quite lively. 
It's actually got a very strong counter establishment movement. 
I suggest going to YouTube, watching videos from an organization called 1420, their production company. 
They go around asking people questions, going around asking people questions about this and being very careful because, you know, you can't say the word war. 
You can't talk about the invasion, but they do it anyway. 
They figure out a way to do that. 
And you just get a sense that, boy, the people there, they know what's going on and they are fighting back in their own way. 
It's not a hopeless situation. 
And if this war is to be won, it's through the common person, the person on the street, people like us, people who just use their imagination to come up with a different way of just tearing down the machine a little bit more. 
In addition, of course, to all the brave people fighting and dying to protect their land. 
But, you know, I think caution. 
I think that's something that it's there's too much of it right now. 
And, yeah, I agree. 
We shouldn't do anything that would spark a greater conflict beyond these borders. 
But at the same time, I think being too cautious also carries some very serious hazards. 
Yeah. 
And in this case, the examples are really quite harmless. 
The cameras themselves, you can still see the picture. 
And if it's a vulnerability, of course, it would alert someone that they need to change something or reconfigure something on that particular NVR camera system they're running. 
And a text message. 
I mean, is it illegal to get a text message? 
I mean, send a text or send one. 
Yeah. 
I mean, it's I think escalation on, you know, the terms of on military terms when you are just having direct person to person communication is equivalent of like that video of doing interviews that we were talking about. 
You're just having a conversation as though you were passing someone on the street. 
You're going to disagree. 
You might have different perspectives. 
And the important part is sharing and finding any way when there are less and less. 
And, you know, while there are people buying into this over there, I feel the same way as I do about people in this country who buy into Trump's nonsense. 
They are not the enemy. 
They're misguided. 
The enemy are the people that know what they're doing and that are leading people into a bad place. 
And the people of Russia, they're certainly not the enemy. 
They are people that need to be reached. 
And I think anything we can do to reach out to them is hugely important. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Yeah. 
To Kyle's point, though, about, you know, is it illegal to receive a text message? 
And unfortunately, though, going back to the unintentional consequences here, I think in Russia at this point it very well could be. 
If you've seen the videos that have been circulating around Twitter of people having their phone searched by the Russian police, you know, that having some kind of illicit text message on there or images of civilian casualties in Ukraine or even having perhaps some traces or vestiges of the fact that you were navigating to certain websites or have certain links in your browsing history that they might have clicked on from these anonymous text messages, that could be enough, I think, for somebody to get in trouble. 
Okay. 
So someone's going to get in trouble for investigating more. 
This is going to happen, Alex. 
People are going to get in trouble, and they're going to have encounters that are not pleasant. 
It's essential if we're going to get past this and if justice is to prevail. 
Well, I'm not condemning the action. 
Just to be clear here, I'm merely presenting a counterpoint and the unintentional consequences of some of those actions. 
And I think some of them could have real-life physical consequences for people in Russia. 
I mean, it's a scary situation. 
This is exactly the situation that Putin wanted to create, which is this alternate world, this alternate reality in Russia where he's not the bad guy, he's the good guy. 
They're denazifying Ukraine, and nobody can say a word about it the other way around. 
It's a crazy totalitarian situation that they have right now. 
Except, Alex, they are. 
They're figuring out ways to do it. 
Somebody went on television the other day with a sign and got to millions of people that way. 
People are figuring out ways to do this anyway, and we have to encourage that. 
And they're not acting out of fear, right? 
They're not being quiet in silence and fear and this obeying new and absurd rules just for the convenience of some invasion. 
Joe Biden called Putin a war criminal today, and I think that's a pretty strong statement right there. 
And text messages from the rest of us, I don't think it's going to really cause that much of a ruckus on the upper echelons, but it certainly could open up some eyes. 
Go ahead, Alex, and then we're going to move on. 
Sure. 
One counterpoint to that, which is I think the people who have been actively opposing the Russian government and publicly doing so are extraordinarily brave. 
They're to be commended, and I think they should be certainly encouraged. 
And if there was a way to foment more of that revolution, I think we should certainly try to engage in it. 
My problem with it, though, is that the people that have done this, the people that show up for the protests, the woman, the extraordinarily courageous woman who went on Russian TV with the anti-war sign and talked about it beforehand, who's I think since disappeared, that was her own choice. 
That was a choice that she had made. 
She actively set her mind to do something and then did it. 
And I think depositing potentially contraband information on the phones of millions of people who may not have made that choice for themselves, that's what I would take some issue with. 
I think it could have some dangerous ramifications. 
Let me just say from the reports I've seen, that woman has been released, and she's not being held in a gulag somewhere. 
That's what I mean by what we are told, the images that we have aren't necessarily accurate. 
Yes, people are being arrested in mass numbers, but a lot of them are going back out onto the streets and not being dissuaded. 
And, you know, this is something that I think is going to spread higher and higher in the government, in the military. 
Ukraine is a neighboring land of Russia. 
A lot of people have relatives there. 
A lot of people have been there, and they do not want to destroy this place. 
The people of Russia, for the most part, simply don't want to do that. 
And when it becomes clear that's what's happening, I think you're going to see more of a reaction. 
But for that to happen, you have to communicate. 
You have to get the word out. 
Okay, let me just move on to one more thing, and we'll get to Emma. 
The Ukrainian Anonymous hacker group hacked into Roskomnadzor, the Russian federal agency that's responsible for monitoring and censoring media. 
If you're going to hack into anything, hack into that. 
They released 360,000 files. 
They announced this last Thursday. 
This is what they said. 
YourAnonTV is the Twitter account. 
Just in, Anonymous has successfully breached and leaked the database of Roskomnadzor. 
I'm sorry for pronouncing that horribly. 
The Russian federal executive agency responsible for monitoring, controlling, and censoring Russian mass media, releasing to the public over 360,000 files. 
Among the censored documents, some of which are dated as late as March 5th, are ones that show Moscow censored anything that referred to the war as a Russian invasion of Ukraine. 
They blocked Russian use of Facebook after it flagged Russian articles as factually inaccurate. 
They're also threatening to block Russian Wikipedia for including an article on the Russian invasion. 
That's the Roskomnadzor agency. 
It's just incredible how much can be done with intelligent people that are determined to infiltrate these organizations and expose all sorts of things. 
Mass numbers can do incredible things. 
With that, I think that's a good point. 
I'd like to introduce Emma Best from Distributed Denial of Secrets. 
Welcome to Off the Hook. 
Thank you. 
Quick note. 
It was not a Ukrainian anonymous group. 
It was just anonymous. 
The account you mentioned had nothing to do with the hack or the release. 
It was released first by Distributed Denial of Secrets. 
Most of what they said was found in the leak is just recent background information, which we cited in the wiki entry and linked to various articles about it. 
Unfortunately, a lot of the reporting just made up that it was a Ukrainian anonymous account, and that's been going around. 
Jerusalem Post got that wrong and a few other places. 
That's the article I read, the Jerusalem Post. 
That was the one I was reading. 
Okay, I'm glad you're here to correct that. 
Yeah, we tried to get them to correct it, and they didn't. 
A few other places were better, but yeah. 
Yeah, it's actually a two-part release. 
The 360-some-thousand files was the main part of the release. 
There's also several hundred gigabytes of databases, which are in a proprietary format, which so far we've not had any luck extracting the data from. 
But we decided to go ahead and make them available to people in case anyone else has better luck. 
One reason we did that when we did was because of the Internet difficulties and shut off with Russia. 
We wanted to maximize the chance of it getting into Russian hands before that got increasingly difficult. 
Yeah. 
What kind of a reaction have you gotten so far to these releases? 
A lot of people are interested. 
Several thousand people have downloaded, at least, just from the servers that we're running for them. 
Obviously, we have no idea how many people have retrieved the data in total. 
It's unfortunate in that right now we're at a point in time where there's a huge amount of demand for Russian speakers. 
Very few are available because so many of them live and work in Russia. 
A lot of the partners that we would usually work with on this simply aren't reachable right now, and that makes it more difficult. 
There are a number of outlets that are starting to work on it, and we've been making our way through it slowly. 
But we have some other things that keep coming in. 
But there's a lot in here that is just interesting from a purely administrative point of view, showing literally just how the agency functions on a day-to-day basis, which is something that I don't think the Russian people have ever seen before. 
When you go through, there's all these entries for things where they're interacting with the local ISPs, the radio stations, every single means of communication. 
There's documents where they seem to be registering social and religious groups. 
Just hands-in-everything postal inspection, where they're apparently inspecting and going through people's mail to different degrees. 
And the extent of it is just fascinating. 
It's very slow-going because of the translation issues. 
But the depth of the data is just incredible. 
I'll say a couple of points. 
Now, I happen to know that many people listening to us right now in the New York area speak Russian. 
If you need help with people who use their native language, is there a way they can participate in this? 
And the second question is, how do people see this? 
Where do they go to get it? 
The best way to get it is to just go to DDoSSecrets.com. 
And it is the first entry under New and Updated Releases. 
You can download it with any Torrent client. 
You'll see the sidebar over on the side. 
You just need the file link, and that'll get you started. 
And anyone who wants to help or is able to help with translation or finding things that are interesting, please reach out to us through email. 
Press at DDoSSecrets.com. 
Yeah, it's absolutely just a fascinating trove. 
And there's so many things that look interesting with the machine translation, but you can never fully be sure of exactly what it means or whether or not it's a faithful translation, especially with abbreviations. 
Yes, and just all kinds of different variations, regionalisms, and things like that. 
Alex, did you have something? 
Yeah, I mean, just echoing Emma's comments here, too. 
I mean, the demand for Russian speakers is really, I think, incredible at this moment, given how many leaks there have been. 
It was a Ukrainian security researcher that we talked about last week that released a massive amount of data on the ransomware group that's associated with Russia, known as Conti. 
A lot of the chat logs between the operators of Conti were in Russian. 
And, yeah, there's only so much that you can do from taking a phrase or a piece of text from Google Translate and then grepping through files here. 
Emma, can you talk a little bit about the volume here? 
I mean, I believe it's around 830 gigabytes of data, which is just absolutely a massive amount of data. 
Do you have any idea how many individual files are included in that or documents? 
So, it's 820 gigabytes between both halves of the release. 
It is just over 360,000 files. 
Wow. 
The file section of the release totals 526.9 gigabytes, and the databases are 290.6 gigabytes. 
The databases seem to be for legal research and handling HR procedures based off of the software that goes with the databases. 
But we obviously can't be 100% positive until we find a way to actually access that data. 
And, unfortunately, because of the new Iron Curtain, the companies aren't talking to anyone from the U.S. 
right now. 
Yeah. 
And to that point, too, Ayo, do you have any idea about the date of this type of data? 
How far does it go back, and how recent is it? 
It's at least as recent as March 5th. 
It goes back several years. 
Let me see if I can switch to the right desktop. 
Sorry, I have… No, while you're doing that, I'll just comment and say that the fact that it goes from March 5th and back several years, that's going to give anybody who's interested in Russian censorship, I think, a real inside look at how that machine works, how that operates, and who are the people running this operation. 
Yeah. 
Incredible. 
Yeah. 
For those people who might be looking at the site and have no idea how to use Tor, does anybody want to give a quick how-to so that they can get started? 
I would just suggest running the Tor browser, downloading that somewhere. 
But does anyone have any pointers? 
Really? 
None of you? 
Can you explain how to use Torrents? 
Torrents are a very widespread thing, and there are lots of easy guides out there for you to get started with whatever platform you're using. 
Just search for Torrent Client in your operating system or device of choice, and you will be sent merrily on your way. 
The basic concept is that the entire crowd of people who have copies of a file are sharing bits and pieces of their copies with you, so you can download from many people, share your chunks of the download with other people who want it, and that is peer-to-peer file sharing for you. 
And it's not illegal. 
It's perfectly fine, and it's safe. 
Yeah. 
And I was actually right. 
It does go back to at least 2011. 
I found one of the annual folders with stuff from 2011 through 2019, and other things, other parts of the data I know go up through at least March 5th. 
Incredible. 
Now, Emma, I know that you've had issues with organizations like Twitter, for instance, that don't allow people to link to your site. 
Is this something that is just we're going to have to accept? 
Is this something that's particularly unusual, and do you know why they do this? 
Apparently it is Twitter's final decision. 
We worked with a group that helps specialize in this sort of thing, and they talked to Twitter a bunch for us and advocated for us, and Twitter made it clear that it is their final decision that the DDoS URL will remain banned, the DDoS account will remain banned, and the reason is that, according to them, we directly collaborate with hackers. 
Well, so do we. 
And they don't ban our site. 
I mean, it's insane. 
If you type DDoSSecrets.com in Twitter in a message, a private message, a post, it just will not go through. 
I mean, that's kind of incredible. 
And I don't understand why - okay, so the DNC emails, the Podesta emails, the hacking team emails, the Intolerance Network, those are all admittedly hacked. 
And you can link to all of those. 
And I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to link to them, but what is the difference, Twitter? 
And they can never give a response to that. 
And I imagine you can also link to hate groups and all kinds of vile organizations out there. 
They just say, we're not endorsing this, this is just speech. 
But for some reason, in your case, it's different. 
Yeah, no, I found a website that has a dedicated Twitter account, and they link right to their website. 
That is literally like - Rob? 
Yeah, well, it's very interesting. 
We were - listeners may remember a couple of weeks ago we were playing with trying to tweet DDoSSecrets.com live on the air. 
And it just doesn't happen. 
And tying back to what I was saying about Facebook deciding what they want in their walled garden, obviously Twitter gets to decide what goes on Twitter too. 
But I'm very interested in thinking about what Twitter is saying by banning the DDoSSecrets URL. 
Obviously, they've been to the site. 
They know what's there. 
And they are saying very loudly, we do not approve of this. 
So I think that does amount to a statement by the company Twitter about their feelings about this particular resource. 
But they can't block us saying it over the radio. 
So if I were to spell out DDoSSecrets.com, you could all go to that website. 
You could all go back through the recording of the show and listen to it as many times as you want until you spell it right. 
You could also space it out. 
You could have a space between each letter. 
Or you could spell it backwards. 
Or you can go up and down. 
There's all kinds of ways you can do it. 
Or you can even have another website that just does nothing but forward to that website. 
So there's all sorts of ways to defeat it. 
It's silly. 
But it's just another hurdle that makes it hard to share this information. 
And in this particular case, this information is invaluable and something that should be shared amongst everybody. 
Emma, have you gotten much in the way of a negative response for this latest release? 
Emma, are you there? 
Have we lost her? 
I think we lost her for a moment and she logged back in. 
But I don't believe we can hear her. 
So there might be a technical glitch on her end or on the Internet. 
Okay. 
I'm not sure who is responsible right now. 
Kyle or is it you that's supposed to reconnect? 
Because we really would like to hear more. 
I will do it again. 
Okay. 
Alex, I guess this is an opportunity for you to give us some of your input on this. 
Well, look, I think it's a fascinating bunch of documents here. 
And to call it a bunch of documents obviously is an understatement when we're talking about hundreds of thousands of documents going back 11 years. 
And I really think that the implications of this are going to be shaking out over the next couple of years. 
It's going to take a long, long time to go through this. 
And I think the insight into the apparatus of the Russian state's censorship machine is going to be really fascinating to learn about. 
And I worry to some extent that a lot of the release of this data may have names or phone numbers or something like that in it. 
But I think going back 10 years, the PII or the personally identifying information in this is likely to be stale. 
It might be very difficult to mine. 
I think this is also the type of thing that's just very, very difficult to curate for exactly the reasons that Emma had mentioned, that Russian speakers are in short supply at the moment and very, very high demand. 
But nonetheless, I think that journalists are going to be combing through this for some time to come now. 
And I think that the Russian government is really going to have its hands full when its people learn about the different subjects and the different objects that they have been censoring for the last 11 years. 
I mean, this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back with respect to the Russian citizens' toleration of the regime in power right now. 
I mean, if this data shakes out in its entirety and people learn what has been denied to them over the last 11 years in terms of the truth, that could make them very, very angry. 
We might have made somebody very, very angry. 
We can't reach Emma. 
She's been basically cut off from our connection. 
Is that true, Kyle? 
I'm back now. 
I'm sorry about that. 
It was just a little faint. 
Great to hear you. 
All right. 
So were you in the middle of saying something or did we have a question? 
Anyone? 
I had been talking about the Twitter situation. 
I don't know at what point I got cut off, though, and lost you all. 
Well, since we only have a couple of minutes on the on-air portion, you're welcome to join us on overtime at 8 o'clock. 
I guess now is a good time to let people know how they can help. 
In addition to Russian speakers, people who want to support what DDoS Secrets does, how can they participate? 
We are poor at organizing volunteers, to be honest. 
If people want to donate, we are a 501C3, and we are always cash poor. 
There's a donate link on the front page. 
Otherwise, spread the word. 
Tell people about the data. 
Tell them that it exists. 
That makes all the difference. 
I know people that know that there's information to be found, the more people can use it. 
One of the things that we were asking while you were away was have you gotten any kind of negative feedback towards this latest release? 
The Russian release? 
No. 
Are you expecting any? 
In due time. 
This is courageous to be doing things like this. 
We're seeing such examples of courage all throughout the world. 
There's no reason why people here in the tri-state area or in the states can't also participate. 
Do you have any closing words maybe of inspiration to people out there that feel like there's nothing they can do? 
There's always something that we can do. 
You just have to start by doing something. 
It builds from there. 
Maybe the first thing people can do is venture over to the website, DDoSSecrets.com, and check out some of what is on there already. 
Hopefully that will grow, and hopefully there will be many more people inspired to do things similar to what you folks over there are doing. 
Emma, thank you so much for joining us on tonight's Off the Hook. 
I hope you can join us in overtime on YouTube afterwards on Channel 2600. 
But regardless, please continue doing what you do, and know that it does make a difference, and that people throughout the world are benefiting from this incredible exchange of information. 
Thank you for having me. 
All right, we're going to go out with what else? 
Some Ukrainian music. 
Join us overtime, 8 o'clock, Channel 2600 on YouTube, or click on the link that's on the top of 2600.com. 
We'll be back here on WBAI next week at 7 o'clock. 
Please stay tuned to 99.5 FM for all kinds of insightful and controversial programming. 
And we'll see you in a few minutes over on YouTube. 
Good night. 


And welcome everybody on YouTube to Off the Hook Overtime, and a continuation of Off the Hook. 
Yeah, did we all make it, Kyle? 
I see you're here. 
I am. 
All right. 
Rob, Gila, Alex? 
We are here. 
Okay. 
We're here. 
Where's Alex? 
Alex disappeared. 
I'm here. 
Okay, well you're not visible anymore. 
Somehow we don't have video of you, but I hear you, so that's good enough. 
Did Emma make it? 
I think she's... 
I'm here. 
Okay, great. 
So we're all here. 
That's amazing. 
We're all here. 
We're on YouTube. 
We're sounding good. 
We can include listeners now. 
Apparently we can all talk at the same time. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Yeah, well, we can't see you. 
I don't know if that's intentional or not. 
You know what? 
Consider it a gift, okay? 
I'm not sure why you can't see us, but you can't see us, and you'll have to live with that. 
But our listeners can get involved as well if they have any questions or things they'd like to share. 
Our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK. 
That is our telephone number. 
And the toll-free number, if I get it right, 833-755-2600, correct? 
That is correct. 
Well done. 
Okay. 
And Rob, you're supposed to tell me if we're on YouTube. 
Are we on YouTube? 
Is it working? 
Yes, I had mentioned we're on YouTube. 
We're sounding good. 
Okay. 
I'm sorry. 
I missed that. 
So did we have any... 
I can't see you. 
No, we already went over that. 
He can't see us. 
I know. 
No, but because you can't see it, because we can't see you, we don't know when we're talking over you until we're already talking over you. 
We have ears. 
We can hear each other, right? 
We know when we're talking. 
Okay, you know what? 
We can go over this later. 
We can see you. 
Yeah, that's the important thing. 
So do we have any other questions or comments for Emma while she's with us? 
Just what inspires you, Emma, to keep at this kind of work? 
Because I can only begin to imagine the enormity of the task of keeping something like Distributed Denial of Secrets going. 
And with you and your team that you've got there, just what keeps you at it? 
So, I mean, on the one hand, it's fascinating, and I love the things that I learn. 
I love the puzzle-solving elements to it of putting the different pieces together and having to figure out how to do new things every time we come into a new challenge. 
But also, a lot of it is, if I stop, what happens then? 
You know, there's not enough other options out there right now in terms of leak publishers. 
And there's too much work for everyone else. 
If I just stopped, it would literally not be fair and not sustainable to just put it on all of them. 
So it's kind of just necessity, because at this point, it's, if not me, then who? 
And so until we get a slightly more enriched leaking environment, or, you know, we get some more people involved, it's just kind of a sense of obligation, because there's all this stuff that needs to get done. 
Yeah, I like the sound of that, a more enriched leaking environment. 
That sounds like something to aspire to. 
Yeah, I mean, I don't think, like, it should ever be just one group, you know. 
It shouldn't be just WikiLeaks. 
It shouldn't be just DDoS. 
It shouldn't be any one operating system. 
It shouldn't be anything. 
It should, you know, there should be all these different approaches and groups that offer different... 
It's just, we need more. 
We need more. 
Because you get more options that way, you get a safer environment that way, and you don't have a situation where, oh, no, one person got arrested, or, you know, a couple people got arrested, and now there's no more leaking organizations. 
If you have five active leaking organizations, and, you know, the FBI decides to do what they do and go after them for using the First Amendment, you know, they take one down, there's still four left. 
And, you know, as it is now, like, they went after WikiLeaks, and so now there's just DDoS. 
And, you know, we're glad to be here, but we'd love some company. 
Yeah, yeah, and being the only one is the total opposite of what you'd want. 
You want a proliferation of it just everywhere, and people working on transparency and organizing and coordinating with one another, and as you're requesting, curating it, really going through things and getting them to the right places. 
Yeah, and that's also how you're going to get, you know, innovation, because, like, we might have one, maybe two great ideas. 
You know, any one person or organization might have one or two great ideas, but beyond that, you know, how many times can you reinvent the wheel? 
Well, you know, to have new ideas and contributions to technology or ways of doing things beyond that, like, you need more input. 
You need more approaches, and you need to put it together, and it's just, we need an actual ecosystem. 
Yeah, and, you know, on that point, too, Emma, I'm wondering if you've, you know, thought about trying to create some kind of consortium type of relationships. 
Did we lose Emma again? 
I think we lost everybody, because everyone's frozen. 
Look at that. 
Wow. 
Okay, that's different. 
We weren't expecting that to happen. 
So I guess we're the ones that are lost, and maybe are we even broadcasting? 
Kind of strange how everything's going haywire. 
Well, I guess I'll give out the phone number again, A02-321-4225, which is kind of pointless if I'm not broadcasting or if our phone line isn't even connected. 
These are rough times, folks. 
Really kind of strange. 
Can you update us, Kyle? 
What's happening? 
I'm troubleshooting, but, yes, you're correct. 
Everyone froze at once. 
Yeah, wasn't that something? 
It was very odd. 
We've never really seen do that. 
I am seeing our other live Kiev stream dropping, so perhaps... 
Have we been disconnected from the net? 
We're having connectivity troubles. 
Wow. 
I'm going to try to connect to something and see if it works at all. 
Yeah, there's a couple of interloids here. 
Really? 
Yeah, we were off the net. 
So wait, what does this mean? 
Am I talking to anybody? 
I'm talking to you, but this has never happened before. 
You have to wonder about the timing. 
Okay. 
You know, I feel like cussing. 
I really do. 
I can as well, because I'm on YouTube. 
It's because you asked me to talk about that thing. 
You were going to talk about that thing, and then I said no. 
Well, I was asking if it was a good idea. 
That's okay. 
Yeah. 
But usually... 
Yeah. 
Now I see something on the screen. 
Are we connected again? 
Yes, I think we're reconnecting. 
Are we reconnecting? 
Okay. 
I think we're getting a phone call from one of our people here. 
Hang on a second. 
Alex, is that you? 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
I have you up to the microphone. 
I have you up to the microphone now. 
We seem to have lost our connection. 
YouTube lost our connection? 
No, we, us, broadcast control. 
Wait, I hear Rob now. 
Where's Rob coming from? 
Oh, there they are. 
They're on the screen. 
Hang up the damn phone. 
Called my cell phone. 
Okay. 
I'm sorry, folks. 
I don't know what happened just now. 
We got cut. 
But something cut us off for a second here at Broadcast Control. 
Everybody make it back. 
We are here. 
We are all here. 
We were wondering what's up with you. 
And I do not. 
I think our YouTube might have dropped out. 
Okay. 
It will be back. 
Well, it seems to think it's going. 
We only have a few listeners left, though, because we dropped out. 
But I think we're on. 
I mean, it doesn't say we're not. 
There's a big red button that says end stream. 
YouTube is once again. 
Okay. 
We're back. 
We're sorry, folks. 
We had nothing to do with this. 
But something cut us off right at the heart of our control. 
You guys just kind of froze on the screen there. 
And Emma's back, too. 
Okay. 
So we're all back. 
So, Kyle, I think you were the last one who said something, right? 
You were talking about the importance of having multiple. 
Yeah, as many types, as many different types of platforms, people working to support infrastructure or being a liaison between journalists or trying to run their own system or help other people like DDoS secrets that are working really hard to organize and make the stuff available, hosted, or whatever people can do. 
We were just talking about having options and how that's better because it's, you know, people can specialize. 
They can help other people like DDoS. 
I'm sorry. 
That's my fault. 
I brought something up on the window there. 
That was you. 
And, yeah, there isn't any one point of failure because there's a whole ecosystem of people doing it. 
Unlike what you just heard now where there was a single point of failure. 
That was a point of failure. 
Yeah, that's an example of what can happen if you don't have redundancy. 
We'll work on that. 
But, Emma, I'm kind of curious, what do you folks think of utilities like SecureDrop, where any publisher can basically receive leaks in a supposedly secure manner? 
Is that something that you've looked into at all? 
SecureDrop is great from a technical perspective. 
It's not always feasible for everyone to deploy the recommended way because of the physical security requirements, which involves, like, watching it with a camera, being able to review it, having it in a cage, all that sort of thing. 
Multiple depth for removing data from it and reviewing it, which I think requires an extra two laptops, which are dedicated to basically that. 
And I believe there's additional limits on it, such as 500 megabyte uploads, which can be great for establishing contact. 
And let's be honest, for most newsroom uploads, 500 megabytes is going to be sufficient. 
SecureDrop is great for a lot of things, and it's certainly secure. 
However, the one bad thing I can say about it is it has a maximum file size, last I knew. 
And, you know, sometimes you have to split up files for it, I guess. 
Yeah, that's not that hard. 
It's not that difficult. 
And if you can do all the other security requirements, that should be the least troubling of them all. 
But, yeah, I agree with that assessment. 
It's certainly serious, and it is secure, it is effective, but it's not for everybody. 
And organizations like yours are so invaluable for people who have access to information that want to get it out to the rest of the world. 
And, again, having multiple organizations that are dedicated to doing this all throughout the globe, that is so important. 
And have you worked with other organizations, or are you just aware of their existence, and everybody is just kind of living in a mutually semi-rebellious landscape? 
I mean, I had encounters with WikiLeaks in the past. 
It's best left buried. 
Okay. 
We can say WikiLeaks started the conversation. 
I think that's a fair way to describe it, but it got kind of distracting in many ways. 
Encounters with WikiLeaks in the past, it sounds like a soap opera. 
It does, doesn't it? 
Oh, God. 
My new telenovela is writing itself. 
Wow. 
Yeah, I was a big fan of a lot of the stuff that Maya, then known as Tilly, was releasing before they got indicted and raided. 
And, you know, unfortunately, since the indictment and the raid, they have been sticking to streaming on Twitch and making music and posting adorable memes, which I also love. 
But, yeah, the leaking community lost one that day. 
And I don't know if John Young and Deborah, I don't know if Krypton still... 
I believe Krypton.org, I believe, is still there. 
That's the site that just will never go away. 
They just survive everything. 
They're still there. 
I just don't know if they leak anything anymore. 
They're just... 
Or if they're more just an archive and a library of, like, very interesting documents. 
Well, there's a place for that as well, then. 
Yeah. 
Well, I'm sure if anyone listening has something interesting that they want to send to Krypton, I'm sure they would post it. 
So, you know, let's count it. 
There's certainly enough places for people that find interesting documents and information. 
There's certainly enough places for them to share that. 
And I think it's just important that they know what these places are. 
Is there a clearinghouse that sort of lists where people can contribute items? 
Or is it pretty much up to the individual to discover these? 
SecureDrop has a registry somewhere of news outlets that use their software, which I know makes it very easy to find, like, safe ways to submit to the right outlet so you can go through and find someone that is either, like, the right subject matter or the right region. 
Yeah. 
We're on there, too. 
And it's alphabetical, so we're first. 
So that works. 
We're a number, 2600. 
So it's kind of cool in that regard. 
But I meant organizations like yours, if somebody, say, in some far part of the earth didn't know where they could send something, how do they find out that these organizations, in addition to SecureDrop, exist? 
No, I don't think there's any collection like that right now. 
And honestly, I'm not sure what else would go on it other than DDoS and the SecureDrop list. 
I mean, WikiLeaks' submission is still not working. 
That's been down for a couple of weeks, and their Secure Chat has been down since last year. 
So, you know, you pretty much can't submit to them. 
What do you think about the way that Anonymous reveals things? 
How do you mean? 
Well, they don't have a specific site, as far as I know, that does what you do. 
Yet they have a lot of documents that do get released on torrents. 
And I'm just wondering if they can be considered a leaking organization as well, more of an activist type of a group, because what they do is different. 
They seem to be more getting their hands dirty in a lot of this and less thoughtful about what it is that they're actually going to be releasing or leaking. 
I don't know that I would call them an organization, because there's very little organizing and organization for the most part. 
You're talking about a lot of loose-knit people that share a name or some targets, but they're not having planning sessions. 
You know, the IT army is, in a way, more organized than traditional anonymous. 
So, I mean, there are some commonalities in how they behave in their M.O. 
Like, a lot of them are script kitties, which is not necessarily a bad thing in this kind of situation, where they use, you know, simple ways of getting things done. 
But, yeah, I would really hesitate to classify anonymous as an organization. 
Yeah, it's for lack of any other word. 
I didn't really know how to refer to them. 
A loose-knit organization. 
A loose organization. 
Uh-huh, yeah. 
It's just a fascinating culture, because everyone is out there trying to get information, and supposedly on the same side of justice, which I find to be incredible. 
And what we've learned so far, just in the last few weeks, has been incredible and quite harmful to the people that are up to no good. 
People who are, you know, invading Ukraine and causing all kinds of death and suffering. 
Yeah, I think it's especially interesting in light of, you know, for a couple of years, there was this idea that went around in articles and a little bit on Twitter with the whole anonymous is dead thing. 
You know, anonymous doesn't really do anything. 
And, you know, then you give anonymous a big cause. 
And we saw that a little bit with Black Lives Matter. 
And, you know, I wish we had seen it a bit more there, but that was, you know, more limited to the U.S. 
But now it's a global thing. 
It's gotten much more attention. 
And it's kind of just occurred to everyone that, like, hey, it's mess-up Putin time. 
And so everyone's digging out their mask and, you know, are making their first one. 
And, you know, they're doing things that they didn't have a reason to do for a long time. 
And, you know, I think that there's a big distinction that we're seeing now between, oh, you know, this kind of activism is gone or no longer a thing versus this just isn't its moment. 
And certainly when it is, it scales. 
Yeah. 
Anonymous scales, I think is what we're saying. 
That's good. 
Rob, go ahead. 
Yeah. 
The biggest thing I've been saying about anonymous is that it is kind of its biggest strength is also its greatest weakness in that it is not really a group as such. 
It's more of a banner that anybody can apply to anything that they want to do. 
And so, like, if a crowd on some forum somewhere decides to, you know, do something for this one particular cause and label it anonymous, then it's anonymous. 
And I think the general feeling about it is that people who don't understand this think of anonymous as, like, one big shady group that's, you know, doing Mr. 
Robot stuff behind the scenes. 
And it's all very Hollywood, but really, like, you, I, or anyone listening could start an anonymous operation right now and it would be just as valid as any other one. 
But what that - the strength of that is that, you know, you could put stuff out there. 
And if it gathers moss and more people throw in on it, then it becomes a big thing, like anonymous's work in support of Black Lives Matter or, you know, going further back, their big efforts against the Church of Scientology and things of that nature. 
And I think for every big viral one, there's got to be a zillion little ones that just never went anywhere. 
You know, I think it's fascinating because we seem to land on the same side of justice more often than not. 
There's a lot of evil in the world, a lot of evil people in the world. 
But when you have something like the current situation going on, people feel, for the most part, a genuine sense of outrage. 
And that's why you have situations where people just kind of self-organize and are doing the same thing. 
The same basic goal is to mess up the oppressors, the evil people, and to reveal the truth and to embrace freedom and justice. 
And, you know, it sounds simple, but it's something we have to be reminded of every now and then. 
And people have incredible passion. 
And I've never seen in such unlikely places and just the resolute and confident feeling of doing what they can, and doing whatever it is they might be able to do to help, specifically because of the current crisis. 
But it's a great reminder of how powerful individuals can be. 
Yeah, yeah. 
I'm going to reach out to some individuals now because we haven't gotten any phone calls yet. 
And I know we've had some difficulty. 
And by the way, those of you listening on YouTube, since we had an outage in the middle, the archive of this show, if you listen to the archive, you probably didn't hear the whole thing. 
Of course, there wasn't much going on. 
It was just basically us saying, what happened to the Internet? 
But if you want to hear that, if you want that part of the show, you'll have to get that from our site, 2600.com, the off-the-hook section, as opposed to YouTube, which only saves what YouTube hears. 
Our phone number is 802-321-4225. 
I do believe we're getting a call. 
Well, maybe we could turn down that ring just a tad, because, boy, it's loud. 
And obviously, somebody is on the phone now. 
But if you call afterwards, you'll get through, too. 
But let's see who got through this time. 
Good evening. 
You're on off-the-hook overtime. 
I can barely hear you. 
I'm sorry. 
You can barely hear us. 
Whoa. 
Okay, well, we can either hear a horrible tone, or we can hear you very dimly. 
How about everyone just shout? 
I think that's sort of the theme. 
This is Bill from Missouri. 
How you guys doing? 
We're doing okay. 
How are you? 
I'm hanging in there. 
I'm just watching this truck or stuff. 
They keep live streaming everything. 
Um, apparently, today, they, um, yeah, oh, there we go. 
That's fair. 
Um, they, um, they went downtown, right? 
And they got all the exes blocked off. 
One of them apparently got arrested. 
Um, the, um, cops were running by one truck during the live stream to arrest somebody. 
But, um, they, they just, like, um, they, they want to blame all the cops now. 
The whole idea of them, you know, jamming up traffic by closing off all the, off ramps and everything. 
You know, they want to throw that off on the cops. 
It's a bad thing. 
But it's kind of their idea to do it. 
So, I don't know. 
But, um, did you hear, did you hear about the, uh, gamer, the streamer on Twitch who's playing, uh, Return to, I can't remember. 
I can't remember the name of it. 
Return to, it's some kind of, um, survival game. 
A war survival game. 
He was, like, um, and, uh, he was living in Ukraine. 
And, uh, he escaped with his, uh, family and so forth due to what he learned in the game. 
Like, um, he was able to calculate how far a, uh, shell was, uh, shell was falling near him and everything. 
I guess they're called the sound engineer and it's really good in games now. 
You can do that now. 
Rob's nodding, so I think he heard of it. 
Yeah. 
I, I, yeah, I did, I did see that story go by. 
I don't know the, uh, details. 
But, uh, it is interesting, yeah. 
Yeah. 
Um, there's, uh, um, there's, uh, um, the, uh, truckers are kind of doing some weird stuff now. 
They're kind of. 
Are they still out there? 
The trucker convoy? 
That's still a thing? 
Yeah. 
But here's the, here's the thing. 
If you go to the raceway's website, they have a race coming up this weekend on the, on the, uh, 19th. 
Which, which raceway is this? 
Hagerstown. 
Hagerstown. 
Right. 
Okay. 
And, and Maryland. 
Yeah. 
All right. 
They're like taking, they're like selling tickets to a race this weekend. 
Well, the, um, the organizer, the one named Brian, he's just like, um, he just like up and say, well, I'm going to, I'm going to disappear for a while to see my family and stuff like that. 
So it's kind of making me wonder if they're just going to leave these guys hot and dry one day. 
Like really soon. 
Um, the other organizer, like, um, Mike Landis, he, like I said before, you're like, um, pled guilty to, um, um, fraud. 
Um, I think she, um, I'm trying to slice up a video where, um, where they, um, we're talking about the books they bought. 
Use the donation money. 
Okay. 
I saw the email that to you. 
Um, but yeah, it's just, they're acting, I mean, they're acting weirder than you. 
Unusual, some, um, proud boys are showing up. 
Oh, that's not surprising. 
What I, what I can't figure out is what is it that they're protesting? 
They're driving around circles on the beltway. 
And, uh, I mean, the, the, the mask mandates are pretty much disappearing. 
What is it exactly? 
Who are they mad at exactly? 
I, I, I don't know anymore. 
It's just, you know, um, also, you know, if it's, they keep complaining they can't take their trucks downtown to the mall and everything. 
Why can't they just park in like Alexandria and catch the subway down? 
Well, don't give them ideas. 
They'll be all over the place. 
Um, but yeah, good question. 
Yeah, well, it, it just seems, I don't know, it's so shady, it's not even funny. 
I mean, you got people sleeping in their cars with their kids now. 
Mm-hmm. 
And it's intense, and it snowed over the weekend, and, you know, the food they have is half expired. 
Um, it's just, I just, uh, you know, I just, I kind of want these guys to get busted for something real, because they just, they just, like, um, like the cops today, like, uh, that one guy, Sassnick, he's like, well, the cops are our friends and everything like that. 
And, uh, he decides to stop in the middle of the road and just gets out of his truck so he can do, like, a streaming scene and, you know, do a selfie or whatever, you know. 
Uh-huh. 
And, um, a little bit later on, the cops come by with them stopping in the middle of the road, and they start waving them on, right? 
And it's like, and the cop, the cop got kind of frustrated with it because he wouldn't move. 
He said, and the cop, uh, he said, well, move on, move on. 
And as soon as, um, since the truck started moving, he started cussing about the cops. 
So, you know, the whole blue lines matter thing, it only matter when they're not getting in trouble or something. 
Well, we learned that on January 6th, that, uh, that's a, that's a farce. 
Yeah, there's, uh, there are a couple more popped up. 
There was a dude named, um, Defender of Ants. 
Mm-hmm. 
He goes by Scotty. 
He totally flipped out on Saturday and did a live stream where he was, like, he was, like, going down the road, like, 90 miles per hour. 
He said something about the snow and Antifa, and that he ran into the gas station to get some gas. 
And there was, like, National Guard members there. 
And he totally tripped out and jumped in his car and just started speeding down the road. 
Um, saying a bunch of weird stuff about, like, um, they were shooting people, went to raceway. 
Okay, well, you know, there's a bunch of, of mass hypnosis and craziness going on down there. 
I don't, you know, I'm content to just sort of hear about it on the news, but I don't really need to follow their every movement. 
Yeah, he said that, um, he was a part of the January 6th stuff. 
Uh-huh. 
But it didn't go in. 
And, uh, he got real paranoid, called some GPS kit, saying, turn left here and stuff like that. 
So he started making real loud noises to cover it up instead of just muting it. 
Uh-huh. 
It's just, it's just a comedy of errors. 
And they, they think when they, you know, like, they, there was, like, a big road plot, uh, there was a traffic jam, because there was, like, a wreck. 
There was, like, a streetcar pileup or something like that. 
And they were all happy about it and proud of it. 
And they closed off the lane, so the ambulance couldn't get through. 
And, like, ah, ah, ah, and all this other stuff. 
It's just, it's like 16-year-olds running around with, with the loudest thing you could think of. 
Uh-huh. 
It, it, it, it doesn't make any sense, because there's nothing to complain about, really. 
Well, there's plenty to complain about, but, uh, they're, they're at the top of the list, probably. 
And, um, you know, if they, if they stay out of other people's way and just, you know, do whatever they're doing, camping out in their trucks or whatever, fine. 
But if they're, if they're going to start intimidating those around them or just making things, um, uh, uncomfortable or unpleasant, um, that's, that's where I think the rest of us would draw the line. 
Um, I, I tried to, um, you know, look up some information on the website, see who owned it and everything. 
And there's an LLC that was set up in Arizona called, um, Secure Domain or something like that. 
Um, and it's been running through that, so you can't look, you can't go who is. 
So, I'm going to try to go into Linux later on and dig something to see what happens. 
See if they got any, like, middle servers or something attached to it. 
Um, but, you know, it's just, I mean, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's hours, it's literally hours of doing, you know, waking up, putting their phone on the table, just dressing and everything and then going through their cars and, you know, sitting and noddling in the, in the, in the parking lot until, you know, it's time for the meeting. 
And, um, they like to frame everything so it looks like there's more people than there really is. 
Yeah, that's, uh, I've seen that tactic before in certain places. 
Yeah, there's other streamers who's not, who's not really into it. 
So they walk around the outside of the group. 
You can see maybe there's like, I don't know, I don't even think there's a hundred people there today. 
Well, I mean, keep in mind, 18 wheel truck, you know, that's, if that's one person, it still looks like something big and you have, you have like 20, you have 20 of those and it's still just 20 people, but it's going to take up a whole lot of space. 
Yeah. 
And if you angle it right, you can make it look like there's a big row of them because they're so big. 
Yeah, absolutely. 
Um, it's intimidation. 
You know, they, they make noise, they're, they're imposing, they're loud, uh, you know, and, and, and just, um, obnoxious, but it's not, it's not reality. 
It's not, it's not what the rest of us believe in. 
Well, you know, I don't, I mean, I, if you, at least they haven't broken any real laws yet. 
Mm-hmm. 
You know, that'll know us, but, you know, when you got white supremacists showing up in your live feeds, like, um, you know, the Proud Boys and stuff, and Flat Earth is, for some reason, are showing up for this thing now. 
Um, they're trying to get a motorcycle group started up and they want to go back to the States and start it up in the States. 
Uh-huh. 
Um, well, you know, they're kind of, they're kind of shooing away people now. 
It's like, make sure you go back to the States and, uh, make sure you get everybody organized for the capitals, uh, state capitals. 
And, uh, it's just, you know, I, I think, I think the, I think the next couple days it's going to be interesting because, you know, you got Saturday where they're supposed to start bringing these race cars in. 
Like, they're like mini racers, whatever you call them, midget cars, right? 
And it's a dirt track, so, I don't, I just think the, uh, organizer's about to leave. 
Well, you know, you can always find a parking lot somewhere. 
I'm sure there's no shortage of those. 
Um, yeah. 
We're going to try and take more calls. 
Any, any closing remarks? 
No, no. 
I hope you have a good night. 
All right. 
Good hearing from you. 
Bye. 
Take care. 
Our phone number, 802-321-4225. 
802-321-HACK. 
Anyone out in Skyplan have any, uh, comments? 
The, the thing about the truckers is like, you know, okay, every, every person there is driving something that is big and attention getting, and the whole thing has been a ploy for attention, basically, for a very small group that wants to be very loud and noisy and take up space. 
And, uh, so, so it is disproportionately represented. 
And, um, yeah, I, I, uh, I think, I think there are, there might be rumblings among that crowd of, like, how much news time the, the war in, uh, Ukraine is, is taking from them. 
The truckers are basically the ultimate in manspreading, just. 
Well said. 
Well said. 
Absolutely. 
Uh, we have another phone call. 
Well, hopefully I can put this one on without making a horrible noise. 
Okay. 
So far I've done it. 
Um, good evening. 
You're on off the hook over time. 
There's no horrible noise. 
It's not like when you call WBAI and it goes, when you answer the phone. 
Well, uh, well, well imitated there. 
So, so we're making a horrible noise like, like BAI does. 
No, no, you don't make a horrible, WBAI when you call them. 
When you, when you used to call them in the old, I guess in the nineties or when you had the old phone system, that's the noise it would make when you answer the phone. 
When that's the noise that the callers would hear. 
That's the noise you would hear more than anyone rebel because you called us more than anyone. 
Right. 
And I can also imitate the, the old way, um, you know, when, uh, crossbar switch used to return and collect the coins. 
You can imitate that. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 
You know, with the do, do being the dial tone, of course. 
Rebel, will you submit a talk proposal to hope and do that for an hour? 
Just different switches. 
And because what I'd like to see and hope is old text terminals, like data entry terminals. 
Uh, you know, somebody should bring that to hope. 
You know, like those retro computer. 
We, we, we, we can allocate an entire room for that if people are interested. 
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 
You know, retro computers at text terminals or data entry terminals, like retro computers. 
And I can also imitate electronic switching when you call on a payphone when it returned the coin. 
Go ahead. 
I think that one needs a little work, but, um, you definitely got the, the gist of it, I think. 
Yeah. 
You know, every, I'd just like to mention that every, uh, store, like, uh, places that you go to, they have their own radios, not radio station, but like, they're like when you go to, um, Dunkin' Donuts, it's, oh, you're listening to Dunkin' Radio. 
They don't have the regular radio, like on, like on 97 or whatever radio station. 
They had Dunkin' Radio. 
And then, or if you go to, um, um, um, like Sonic, uh, drive-in, uh, this is Sonic radio. 
I mean, like, hello. 
Well, because it's basically, it's basically an iPad or an iPod rather playing, playing music and somebody saying that in between songs. 
It's not, it's not hard to do. 
You could do it yourself. 
Yeah. 
This makes me think of, uh, gas station TV. 
Oh my God. 
I hate that so much. 
Yeah. 
Gas station. 
Isn't that annoying? 
Yeah. 
It doesn't, doesn't Starbucks have like albums they sell for like their playlists that they are subjected to? 
But it doesn't save, you know, that's true. 
Starbucks has their own thing, but they don't have a Starbucks channel when you hear it. 
Just like when you have, when you go to Foot Locker, you know, you see the, they play the TV, the music videos, but it's not MTV. 
It's the Foot Locker channel or something. 
Foot Doctor channel. 
Foot Locker. 
Oh, something like that. 
Or, or, or whatever. 
Okay. 
Everybody call, call their, their, their, their local cable company and demand to have Foot Locker channel. 
Carry. 
I like the Journey's channel, you know, like when you go to Journey's, the shoe store or whatever. 
So, sadly, I can confirm that Starbucks does have like a Spotify channel. 
Hang on. 
No, go ahead. 
Sorry, Reb, I'm going to turn it down for a second. 
Go ahead, Emma. 
I can confirm that Starbucks actually does have its own Spotify channels. 
You know, I'm curious about that because. 
It's all the insider information. 
I cannot say more. 
I hear music when, those, those occasions where I've been in Starbucks, I hear music and I wonder, is that same music playing in all the Starbucks? 
And it's not, no matter how fast I drive, I can't make it from one Starbucks to another and get the end of the same song. 
So, I'd have to get somebody in a different Starbucks and ask them. 
But I haven't gotten to that stage yet. 
They're fixed playlists. 
For each one? 
They can, they can pick a little bit, but yeah, there's, there's not, you know, it's like choosing between ham and rye and ham and Swiss. 
Interesting. 
Wow. 
You know, I, I, I had, um, I had to get an MRI once and, uh, what's that company called? 
Zwanger, Pasori or something. 
They have ZP TV. 
It's just like a channel they have. 
I don't know who came up with this idea of, of just not playing one of the, the, the silly channels like home and garden TV, but coming up with their own. 
You're telling me the radiologist has one of these too? 
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Everyone, everyone's in on it. 
Who sits at their doctor's office and is entertained by that? 
Well, I can tell you who sits at the doctor's office and is looking for the remote so that it can turn to anything else. 
In fact, I've, I've, I've taken to carrying a remote with me because, you know, around here people get the same cable company. 
So the remote is going to work. 
And, uh, I just, you know, casually changed the channel and nobody knows. 
I had a doctor that the TV just showed, it was a slideshow of his vacation photos. 
And, uh, it was so, it was so insulting and like, I'm sitting there like, I don't feel good. 
I'm not okay. 
And you're showing me your trip with your family to the beach and I'm glad you had fun at Barbados, but I feel like I'm going to yak on your floor. 
Wow. 
That, that, that's a system that has to be hacked and certain photos inserted that make people run for the remote. 
Uh, rebel, did you have any other, um, any, any other things to reveal to us? 
It's like TV be gone. 
Uh huh. 
You know, but it's like you're carrying a, that's a good idea. 
Carrying a remote of, of, no, that's, that's a good idea because when you, when I tried going to places and turning the, the, the TV or changing it, it's, it's so complicated. 
I guess you can't do it on the TV. 
You have to find the, the, the box of the cable box and that's come like hidden somewhere. 
And, you know, just come like unplug the TV or something. 
It can be hidden, but it can also be in, in, in plain sight. 
But you know, um, uh, the cable company, uh, direct TV, uh, a lot of places use Roku's now and, and the Roku remote, you can, you can install different channels on their Roku and just go, you know, to your heart's content, see all kinds of interesting things. 
They sell on Amazon a universal remote that it has one button and it just turns off all TVs. 
Uh huh. 
It just runs through the, the power off button for all the codes and it might take like a couple seconds, but they're not the TV and it's a godsend, especially if you have to go through like airports or you just hate noise. 
That's, um, our friend Mitch Altman, his TV be gone. 
That's, that's what that is. 
And, uh, it's an incredible device. 
We, we have used that on, on buses going uptown in Manhattan, turning off TVs and bars as we go past them. 
So, um, it's, it's a ton of fun. 
I'm not sure how effective it is these days. 
That's my kind of evil. 
It does cause civil unrest at times. 
Uh, Rebel, anything else from you? 
Yeah, the, um, um, um, oh, no, I forgot. 
Um, oh, oh, the, um, the MTV doesn't play music videos anymore. 
Uh, you could have said that 25 years ago and it would have been accurate. 
Yeah. 
It's like, you know, like the cable, um, let's say what else? 
Um, I don't know. 
I guess that's it. 
You know, like everything, uh, Hmm. 
And what else? 
Rebel has run out of things to say. 
This has never happened before. 
It's bound to happen eventually. 
Yeah, I guess so. 
He's just trying to pick. 
There's so many things. 
There's so many things. 
Yeah, I know. 
I know. 
Yeah, there's so many things. 
Um, so there'll be a 2600 meeting in April at the city course center. 
Thank you. 
Yep. 
So, yeah, I think Rob knows something about that as well, right, Rob? 
Except the two of you can't talk at the same time because neither one of you hears each other. 
So, Rob, go ahead. 
Yeah, absolutely. 
It happens the first Friday of every month. 
Uh, we, we do meet in person at the, uh, city group building where, uh, New York City 2600 meetings, uh, of old happened. 
Uh, we're back there. 
It's a remodeled, it's a remodeled space. 
It's very nice. 
And, uh, for those not into going in person, we also still do a virtual alternative meeting that, uh, that is, um, over zoom. 
So, uh, if that's, if you're preferred to stick with that, we still have that, but, uh, we're, we're doing things in person for as long as it's, uh, safe and responsible to do so. 
Does everybody at the 2600 meeting in person look at the zoom people or is it just the zoom people looking at other zoom people and the physical people just are in their physical presence? 
Um, sometimes people will try and peek in on the zoom from the live meeting, but we found that because of the space and how acoustics work, um, if you connect to the meeting on zoom from the physical meeting, you, there's immediately so much noise that it drowns out the zoom meeting for all the other zoom, uh, users. 
So, uh, you know, you might, you might see people peeking in on mute, but, uh, there, you can't really maintain a two way connection through between the two. 
We have tried it is, it was sad, but, uh, but we still, we still have the, uh, the two, I think going as kind of separate concerns. 
Well, it's good to see things start coming back to normal and hopefully they continue to come back to normal. 
Uh, rebel, we're going to say goodnight to you unless you have some other, uh, a bit of wisdom to share with us. 
It's right down by the atrium, right by the pay phones. 
And then we go out to around the clock afterwards, you know, to do that. 
No, no, hold on a second. 
None of those places are still there. 
Around the clock went out of business many years ago and, uh, you know, I miss those days. 
I miss those days so much. 
Yeah. 
And then there used to be pay phones that we used to play with. 
Pay phones. 
Yeah. 
All sorts of, of little devices, new, new computers coming out. 
Data entry terminals. 
Uh-huh. 
Uh-huh. 
But this, this is, uh, a great time to find new places, start new traditions, see what places, uh, are still around. 
Yeah. 
Hotel Pennsylvania being torn down as we speak. 
And, uh, misbehave in all kinds of other ways. 
Yeah. 
I'm sorry, Red, but go ahead. 
Yeah, I was going to say, the hotel, I just saw it, it closed and I guess, yeah, I guess they're going to take it down and build an office building. 
So they haven't actually, they haven't actually started the demolition process yet, right? 
I mean, it's like the outside demolition. 
Yeah, but why do they need more office buildings? 
They don't. 
It's, it's greed. 
That's what it is. 
It's, uh, we, we certainly need a hotel like that, but, um, uh. 
Yeah, but who's going to work in it? 
Never, then nobody's going to sell it. 
Exactly. 
No, instead of having thousands of people, uh, seeing New York, you'll, you'll have a handful of people making money and that's it. 
That's, that's, that's what New York will be. 
You know, I heard about this, uh, this hacker, this white hat hacker named Gummo who, uh, revealed he owns more than $7 billion in Bitcoin. 
You know, Gummo, if you're out there, um, we don't ask for much, but you know, if you have that much money, buy the damn hotel and you could save it. 
You could save it personally called the Gummo hotel. 
That'd be kind of cool. 
And, uh, and it would make money too. 
It's not like you would be losing or just, you know, something. 
You could probably win the war in Ukraine. 
It's all sorts of things. 
If you have that kind of money. 
If you were to scam, if you were to scam Bitcoin so that you can make like much money, scam Bitcoin, those two words should never be together. 
I don't know. 
I mean, that, that's what it sounds like. 
We could help like navigate the hotel if anyone needs like, I don't know about that. 
I'm not sure how many floors are left or if they've done, there's a couple of places we might remember. 
Yeah. 
I need to take a look. 
If anyone out there has, has seen it recently, let us know because, uh, we're not in that part of town often. 
Uh, OTH at 2600.com. 
Rebel, good hearing from you as always. 
Take care. 
Thanks. 
All right. 
Yep. 
I've been to the hotel fairly recently. 
How recently? 
Yeah. 
I mean, it just looks like it's being emptied out, you know, no demolition on the, um, you know, on the actual structure itself. 
But, um, yeah, there's, there's not much activity. 
It's kind of sad. 
Yeah. 
Well, they've emptied it out. 
They've, uh, sold off the fixtures and things. 
And, uh, I think they're, they're now at the stage where, you know, they haven't put up scaffolding around it yet or any of that other stuff they would need to safely demolish. 
But, uh, but, um, yeah, it's a process. 
Wow. 
All right. 
Uh, shall we hold off for one more phone call? 
And, um, um, I don't want to, I keep Emma too long either. 
Um, cause most of these phone calls have nothing to do with. 
Then I'll, uh, I think we have another 10 minutes. 
We can, uh, we can take a call. 
You have that number again? 
Eight. 
Should I give it out? 
The phone's ringing. 
802-321-4225 is our, is our phone number. 
Um, go ahead. 
Maybe you can pick it up. 
Uh, good evening. 
You're on off the hook over time. 
Go ahead. 
Speak up. 
Hi, my name's Dennis and, um, I'm a retired mainframe kind of dinosaur guy. 
Oh, wow. 
And I live in a retirement community and I'm kind of interested in some sort of grassroots effort. 
I can get others to make, to support Ukraine. 
And, uh, I came across something, um, squad303 at mail.1920.in, which would allow, um, a user to simply click and send an email to somebody in Russia and just simply declare what it's like, um, across on this side of the ocean and maybe in the free world in general. 
That site seems to be down. 
Do you have any news? 
Has it been, um, nefariously corrupted or maybe it's overrun? 
Um, comment? 
Does anyone here have information on that site or has heard of that site before? 
M.R., we'll start with you. 
No. 
Okay. 
Uh, Alex? 
No? 
I have not. 
Okay. 
Uh, Rob, are you shaking your head? 
I haven't. 
I am not familiar with it, but, um, as, as with any, uh, any things, uh, as with anything in a moment like this in history where there's a lot of people looking for ways to help with something, um, I'm sure there are very many sort of scams and shady individuals who have popped up with all sorts of things to try and, uh, get money that people think they're sending to somewhere helpful. 
Um, so I would just encourage, uh, the caller and anyone else to, um, fully vet these things as, as to the extent possible and, um, make, uh, make the wisest decisions you can as to how you're helping and where you're sending money. 
And make sure you're actually sending it somehow to, um, an organization or individuals that can literally help. 
And it may be that it was stood up quickly, um, in a, in a scramble as being, you know, a grassroots and, uh, a quick effort, the kind of thing that, that you're interested in, in helping out with or being involved with. 
So they may need some help. 
They may have, it's, it's cheered upon by, uh, the wall street journal. 
Uh, okay. 
Okay. 
That's interesting. 
Now, uh, yes, I, so they've done some reporting on it. 
Yeah. 
My disclaimer on it, if I sent it out is basically, uh, sure. 
There's 120 million email addresses. 
However, there may be some bad guys in those email addresses. 
Of course. 
And please don't send money. 
This is only about Radio Free Europe, about propaganda, about delivering information. 
Mm-hmm. 
Well, now, um, I assume you send out an email and they, is it translated into Russian or, or you're assuming that they. 
It comes up in Russian and you can just click translate. 
Okay. 
And see what the English is. 
They have some prepackaged, uh, emails. 
Mm-hmm. 
That, uh, you can just click and send. 
Now, I haven't successfully gotten one back. 
I assume at some point a Russian, if they were so, uh, if they were brave enough or foolish enough, would respond. 
Mm-hmm. 
But be, be very careful with that, too, uh, for obvious reasons. 
But certainly, if, uh, if it's coming from your email or maybe, uh, uh, an email that you have control over, just maybe a temporary one you made specifically for this project. 
Uh, yeah, you may, you may get some replies or interesting, um, uh, return mail and stuff. 
Mm-hmm. 
All right. 
So, I guess in my little world, it was much bigger than it, uh, is in the real world. 
Well. 
That's the case with many things. 
It was an interesting, uh, uh, thing to try. 
Can you give us the, the address one more time? 
And we'll, uh, we'll definitely check into it. 
It would be, um, you could, uh, keyword search, uh, squad 303 are the people who did it. 
Uh, and, uh, HTTPS, slash, slash, mail.1920.in, or just simply, 1920.in. 
And, uh, they go through CloudFair. 
Uh, I mean, there's a wall there. 
And, uh, I sent an email to y'all a little bit earlier today with some of the specifics in it, but I'm getting air code 552, which is basically the far side timed out. 
Okay. 
I'm reading about this now. 
Apparently, it's a Polish hacker group that started this. 
Correct. 
Yeah, and it, it has a wonderful history of, uh, you know, way back when, where they, where they got the, um, squad 303 and, and it went and read D-O-T-H, uh, 2600. 
We'll probably find a little joy in that. 
Mm-hmm. 
Most definitely. 
Most definitely. 
This is the kind of thing that, you know, we live for. 
This is, uh, you know, a way of just reaching out randomly to people and, and, and getting the word out. 
And hopefully it has some effect. 
Yeah. 
And, you know, my biggest, uh, my biggest, uh, I went to cyber, uh, South Coast cyber, uh, summit. 
And, you know, one of the things I've brought up a lot is, um, with the scams and things coming around that it's going to escalate. 
They talked about it's going to start hitting lower income, uh, individuals more and more. 
And I just said, Hey, wait a minute. 
What about us seniors? 
We're getting older every day and we're getting a little more naive or childlike every day. 
And we are definitely, uh, hotspots, uh, for scammers, uh, you know, anything, phone, mail, you name it. 
And I help people that are victims, uh, you know, best I can on a daily basis. 
And, uh, you know, they acknowledged, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But, uh, I guess the battle's much bigger for them, the government and the military than, uh, looking out for a few senior citizens. 
But the nice thing about my comment is I can always close it with, well, you're becoming one of us. 
It's just a matter of time. 
Interesting. 
Interesting words to end on. 
Thank you so much for your call. 
And, uh, You're welcome. 
And thank you all for broadcasting. 
All right. 
Take care. 
Evening. 
Interesting call. 
Interesting, uh, interesting information there. 
Yeah, I'm struck. 
It's interesting how, um, when the emerged, the emergence of the internet was taking hold, there was this huge crisis that we came to know of as the digital divide, where you would have people that really had no idea how computers worked and, um, maybe they were much older and, um, uh, just had to basically by leaps and bounds, uh, do all of this uptake of, of learning equipment and, uh, accounts and protocols and these things that for others came quite naturally, um, as it emerged. 
Well, I don't think that's as much the case. 
And I, I would just caution to not exaggerate that too much because there are a lot of, uh, computer users, maybe even computer user groups in, uh, some of, uh, in, in care homes and so forth that, uh, can, can do their own organizing. 
So I'm sure we'll see more of that kind of, uh, uh, uh, hacktivism and interest group. 
I just like that people everywhere are thinking about this, thinking of ways to help and to contribute and, and, and share knowledge. 
Yeah. 
Uh-huh. 
Uh, we have another phone call? 
This will be the last one. 
Yeah, I believe they're connected. 
Yes. 
All right. 
You're the last phone call. 
Go ahead. 
Good evening. 
Over time. 
It's Bobson from Bulgaria. 
Welcome. 
Exactly, sir. 
Well, you have an awful lot of refugees in your country now from, uh, from Ukraine. 
Yeah. 
How's it going? 
Well, I haven't met any yet. 
Well, you have to go outside to do that. 
Go out what? 
You, you say you don't go outside very often. 
So, you know, that's where you meet them outside. 
Well, yeah, that's true. 
So, hey, what is it I heard of the news about your Congress folks trying to vote DST as the permanent situation there? 
Yeah, they, they, they have kind of a swell head over there. 
They, they think they can control time and, uh, they're going to try and make daylight savings time permanent. 
Yeah, that's kind of bothersome. 
So, I was happy that the EU got rid of DST for good. 
Yeah, EU already did this. 
Did they, wait, the EU did the opposite, though. 
They got, they, they embraced standard time and they got rid of daylight savings time. 
Yeah, here they want to get rid of standard time and embrace daylight savings time. 
So, I. 
Yeah, which is silly, but what can I say? 
And it means there'll be an extra hour between us, right? 
Instead of it being 3.30 in the morning or, or whatever time it is now, it'll be an hour later, right? 
Well, we're still on standard time and you recently got into, you sprung forward recently in recent days, if I'm not mistaken. 
Okay, so this would be the default time setting then, whatever it is now. 
Well, it's 2, it's not, it's not yet 3 a.m. 
Okay, so it's a little earlier than usual. 
Last week, it would have been an hour later for you. 
Yeah, because the, the show started 1 a.m. 
tonight over here, radio show, which usually it just gets to be 2 a.m. 
Uh-huh. 
But, oh well. 
So this makes things a little easier for you calling us. 
Well, I've not, I don't think it's easier in any way, but, well, yeah, maybe a bit more. 
I just get the impression that later it gets that you slow down a little bit more, you know, and earlier would be, you'd be more, you know, awake. 
Oh, that depends on the situation as things may go, but, yes, I understand what you're saying. 
I think Alex has a question for you. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
Actually, it's more of a suggestion. 
I think, I think we should do an experiment here. 
I think that, uh, Bobson and Rebel should switch time zones for a couple of weeks and, and then we get to see what the, uh, what the difference is in, in their personalities is, is I'd love to see Rebel when he's this tired. 
I mean, you couldn't have more of a different type of energy on the line, right? 
I mean, Rebel seems like he needs to switch to decaf at some point, you know, after 8 p.m. 
Um, and poor Bobson has, has been up in the middle of the night. 
I, I want, I want to see what these guys are like if they switch time zones. 
Or maybe we switch time zones. 
Maybe we're on in the morning, our time. 
So, you know, it's, it's Bobson's peak time and Rebel's still asleep. 
Or we could do this show from Bulgaria. 
Or we could do that. 
Yeah. 
Well, you're welcome to come over here for the show, but, uh, radio situation might be a bit tricky to set up. 
Uh-huh. 
Uh, maybe, but do you, do you have enough room for us? 
Well, there's plenty of livable hotels in town, so. 
Oh, wow. 
Okay. 
That was, that was cold? 
Okay. 
Well, you know, it's not likely to be able to fit all, plus the entourage and all, it'll be a lot of people and, um, you know, equipment that we drag in. 
So, it probably is best that we, uh, either rent a site or, or, you know, find, uh, you know, a large area that we could hang out in. 
Well, this is, so, you know, parking horses. 
Oh, well. 
Mm-hmm. 
We'll figure it out. 
We will. 
Any, any other observations, Bobson? 
Because we're getting tired, too. 
Oh, well. 
Thank you for the great show tonight, and I will look into the Russian leaks and see what I can, what I may be able to assist with. 
Yes, there's always something. 
I'm sure you can find something. 
Interpreting things, absolutely. 
Expertise is all around us. 
Oh, well. 
Okay. 
Bobson, always great to hear from you. 
Have a great evening, everybody. 
You, too. 
And, uh, for that person who is about to call in, don't, because we're not picking up the phone anymore. 
We're, we're, we're done with phone calls. 
Uh, Kyle, you have, what looks like a check there. 
What's, what's this all about? 
I, I didn't even think I would, uh, I would have time to bring this up, but, um, I got my settlement. 
You got a settlement? 
Yeah, the, uh, sales tax litigation. 
Oh, that came through. 
With AT&T. 
It came through. 
AT&T, the big thing. 
Okay, yeah. 
Tell us about it. 
I've been waiting a while for this. 
Yeah, who hasn't? 
Who hasn't? 
This is, um, it's been a long time coming. 
Um, basically, if you use a specific type of data plan in the service area that I was in, um, um, you were deemed eligible to receive this amount. 
From the Class Action Settlement. 
The funds contained in the check are a refund of your taxes. 
They're recovered by the settlement. 
The settlement is final. 
Yeah, of course. 
Depositing this check does not obligate you to any future product or service, and you will not receive any additional correspondence relating to this settlement. 
Oh, you don't have to deposit it? 
I mean, you should. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Leave a check like that lying around, so, uh, tell us about it. 
How much do you think it is? 
Oh, I don't know. 
It's, uh, it's anyone's guess. 
Uh, Alex, you seem to have a, uh, a figure in mind. 
I'm going to say $6.71. 
Wow, that's, that's insulting. 
That's, uh, Rob, did you have a guess? 
Uh, I gotta pull the, uh, price is right move. 
$1. 
Close. 
Uh, Emma, you want to weigh in? 
I don't blame her. 
So, I missed that. 
We're trying to figure out how much Kyle's settlement check from AT&T is for them ripping him off for many years. 
It's, uh, sales tax litigation. 
Yeah. 
For wireless data services. 
Oh, uh, $1.29. 
Also very close. 
Really? 
They sent me a check for $0.31. 
$0.31? 
I don't think it's worth the paper it's printed on. 
I don't have to print this $0.19. 
I'm kicking myself. 
Uh, it, put a smile on my face. 
Why do I have optimism? 
Yeah. 
No, I, I, I really, I thank you for the guesses. 
But the stamp is, is worth more than that. 
Why didn't they just send you the stamp? 
It totally is. 
This reminds me of the, uh, the old payphone, uh, getting change from the operator and stuff. 
Oh, that's something Rebel could tell you about. 
Rebel could have told us all about this. 
I, I wish we had time, more time. 
We would have, uh, talked about it, but we'll talk about it next time. 
We called the credit operator and, and they'd send you a check and you get a check for a dime. 
All kinds of checks. 
Uh-huh. 
Anyway. 
Well, congratulations. 
And make sure you deposit that quickly. 
It's going to give me something to do. 
Yeah. 
Emma, it's been great having you on. 
Um, any, any final words you'd like to give to our, our YouTube audience? 
Emma, you there? 
Sorry. 
Say again. 
It keeps cutting out. 
I just wanted to know if you had any final words as we're, we're signing off from YouTube now. 
Um, yeah. 
Um, expect more Russian data tomorrow. 
Oh yeah. 
Tell us. 
So something is being released. 
Yep. 
Um, all I can say is oil pipelines and sanctions and people will learn more. 
Uh, okay. 
And the site to go to DDoS secrets, one S, well, one S in the middle and that's at the end. 
Uh, DDoS secrets.com. 
Uh, you can tweet the site. 
It won't work, but you can figure out ways to say it anyway. 
And, um, and everything is, is, is pretty much available there via torrents. 
Okay. 
Up in the morning. 
What, uh, what, what time in the morning? 
Uh, hopefully first thing. 
Okay. 
All right. 
We look forward to that. 
Thanks so much for your time and sharing on, uh, the latest from, uh, what you all have been releasing and, and, uh, putting out there in the world. 
Yes, it does make a difference. 
Thank you so much for having me. 
Anytime. 
Anytime. 
We hope to see you at hope as well. 
All right. 
Sounds great. 
Okay. 
Guys have a good night. 
Uh, Rob and Alex. 
And whoever Gila is and Kyle will be back next week with another exciting edition of off the hook and off the hook over time. 
And thank you to all people listening on YouTube, right to us. 
oth at 2600.com. 
See you next week.