Why, hello there. 
It's seven o'clock and you're listening to WBAI in New York. 
It's a Wednesday evening and every now and then that means it's time for off the hook. 
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. 
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough. 
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would. 
One day we bombed for the best, expect the worst. 
I hope that's understood. 
And the very good evening program is off the hook Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening joined tonight by Kyle 
hi E 
how you doing pretty good and out there on Skype land looks like we have Rob T.  Firefly 
good evening 
and we have Gila 
good evening 
and my goodness is that Alex Alex who's been struck dumb we see him he's waving at us but I can't quite seem to find the words I'm here good evening there you are okay you look different you look like you're coming in like PAL format instead of NTSC you know it's yeah it's a different video standard which indicates to me that you're in a different part of the world I am indeed I am in a much different part of the world at the moment yeah did you think you could hide that I can tell I can see I can see that yeah nothing gets past you Emmanuel not really no you seem to be somewhere in the western hemisphere where people drive on the right hand side of the road and it's currently night time and English is not the first language I'm just getting that from your eyes yeah that's that's that's all true all true fantastic how about that yep yep and could you could you tell him on an island um you know what that didn't come through did not come through that didn't come through significance to the letter G though does that mean anything to you the letter G to the letter G yeah no it doesn't no okay well how about did you have a childhood did I have a childhood yes yes I did okay all right then I think I think we're zeroing in on your issues okay okay fine well and by the way listeners if you want a reading uh it's it doesn't cost much we're we're here to offer that to you no I'm serious with that this is off the hook in case you're not familiar in case you've been away we've been away for a while we've been on for three weeks apologies for that here's what happened uh we had uh transmitter maintenance that was going on that seemed to be going on forever and uh somebody thought and it's not not BAI it's it's uh whoever maintains transmitters for most of the radio stations that are on uh four times square um they they thought the best time to do that is in the middle of the day uh for for several days in the middle of the week and um while it was finished um basically we had we had all kinds of other obligations for instance there was a a live broadcast from Nairobi and um I guess uh the best time to do that is 2 a.m. 
their time which was when we're on the air so um we stepped aside last week for that um for the better interest so I'm I'm I'm sorry to listeners who might be confused who might have been able to find us over the last couple of weeks we're here now uh and um uh we hope you're there as well of course you can write to us oth at 2600.com and of course you can always go to wbai.org and especially go there if you wish to donate keep the radio station going or call 212-209-2950 I think that number always works um that's how we stay on the air without commercials and we've been doing it not us but the radio station since 1960 so we're on this week and hopefully we'll be on for the coming Wednesdays and we're doing overtime tonight as well at 8 o'clock on YouTube go to 2600.com look at the top of the page for the link or just go to our YouTube channel uh of channel 2600 one word and the number is 2600 so Alex tell us something about where you are right now sure absolutely and I'll say you know I'm at a place in the world where I probably won't join everybody for overtime because it will be late so I'm because of the dictatorship that you're there they don't allow overtime that's that's absolutely true yeah they don't allow YouTube at all oh wow you know I am I am in a part of France that is an island and in the Terranian Sea I'm in Corsica I am on the eastern side of Corsica at the moment no YouTube allowed in Corsica spread that around everybody this is straight from Alex and as you know he never gives out bad information that's true exactly yeah but have you ever been to Corsica I have never been to Corsica yeah it's a it's quite a magical place I have to say I mean the the mountains are tall and beautiful and the beaches are incredible and you know the driving is typically European it just always amazes me that you know how narrow the roads are despite the roads being new for some reason Europeans still have to make narrow roads just to make the driving feel more European and slightly dangerous at every single turn but I was in Italy last week and I think we should mention too that you know our preemption last week was pretty you know sudden so we were ready to go I was ready to do the show from Italy last week and then I took a ferry from Livorno in Italy over to Corsica and one of the things that really struck me as uniquely un-American was that when we were waiting for the ferry is Corsica ferries you know literally from the western coast of you know northern Italy un-American I can hardly wait yeah well the ferry was a bit late so all the cars were lined up waiting for the ferries hot day humid day the sun was beating down and you just have you know this long line of cars just sitting there waiting for the ferry and what was incredible to me was that nobody had their engines on nobody was sitting in the car with their windows rolled up and had the AC on everybody had their car shut off was hanging out outside doing various things talking to each other walking around playing ball nobody complained nobody was upset it was the heat was just blaring down and nobody was sitting there being ecologically unfriendly by just running their car it was absolutely incredible I feel like if this were in America people would be raising hell about the ferry being late and the heat being what it was and they'd be in their metal cocoons with the engine blaring and the carbon monoxide coming out the back and nobody was doing that it was really fascinating to me there wasn't even one person raising a stink not even you that's it not even me I mean I would have really stuck out I think if I made any kind of thing nobody would have listened to anyone that's the thing and then the ferry ride over to Corsica is beautiful and you're going across the inter but also that was extremely hot inside the cabin of this ferry and yet again nobody was complaining this is the kind of thing that would have caused some kind of civil revolt I feel like if it had happened in New York hold on a second I don't know why you pick on New York because New York has some of the most patient people I've ever seen especially when it comes to traffic yeah people do honk their horn sometimes but when people understand what the problem is for instance a half hour backup on the BQE sometimes people just chill and they know what's going on and they can't do anything about it and I've seen that countless times in New York where people just take a chill pill and they relax a little bit and that's it it does happen you do you very often see the opposite of people taking a chill pill well that's true but I wouldn't confine that to New York if you're going to say it's a US thing you see that every place and I see a lot more impatience in other parts of the country as well so yeah and I'm sure I'm sure there are plenty of impatient people in France I've heard rumors oh yeah most certainly absolutely yeah I mean very impatient people I found it in the grocery stores especially if you don't speak French very well you know for instance today I was in Bonifacio which is you know towards the southern tip of Corsica is an absolutely beautiful old city with a citadel essentially on the top of a mountain and you know you have to pay for parking everywhere I mean space is at such a premium right you always constantly have to pay for parking and so we were running down to do this boat tour thing my son and I and trying to get out of this parking lot go have the ticket go to pay on the way out and then we realized at the point at which you would ordinarily pay for the parking there was a message in French telling you that you had to go to the cashier first and pay for parking and meanwhile there's a long line of cars that has lined up behind you in order to try to get out of this exit so you know you put your car in reverse and then everybody has to go in reverse aisle nobody was happy with me at that point I had no idea you were supposed to pay for the parking before you actually left and then you know I went and paid for the parking lined up to get out with my now validated ticket that I could use to exit the parking lot and as I was doing that about three people in front of me also made the same mistake and then everybody had to go back out again and go into reverse and it was just the most idiotic system for paying for parking I have ever seen in my entire life and people were very angry and not it was just very inefficient but I think you know maybe the lesson here is that people around the world are just angry with inefficiency and we need some change wings hot wings wait yeah hot wings Super Bowl Sunday placing an order two days in advance so that you'd have them in time for the big game and then you show up at the place and the place that sells the wings scheduled everybody for the same time instead of staggering them so you had something like 75 people showing up trying to get wings at the same time and get back in time for the big game that is something I went through last January I don't care about the game don't remember who played but it was winter time it was cold outside everybody was out there and nobody was angry everybody took care of each other we shared jokes and these are people that I probably disagree with on every political issue ever invented that is an example of patience so you see Alex it doesn't just happen when you travel overseas it can happen right in your own backyard the more you know associated with and it does about the individual people I mean who knows there I will tell you this too I'm on a property at the moment it's absolutely gorgeous it feels almost kind of you know deserted in a lot of ways except we have an electric fence around the property that turns on at 10.30 pm every day and then turns off at around 6.30 pm I haven't touched this electric fence but can you imagine why we have an electric fence around the property to keep you in some place they want to know where you are to keep other things out right is there some kind of wild dog they have to keep track of or is this a form of child care I don't know these days wait let's get the electric fence surrounds the property what happens I mean they must tell you what the electric fence is if you touch it you die or something like would they tell you that or yeah I mean they tell you not to touch it don't touch it okay during those hours yeah I've offered my friends staying with me in the house here lots of money to touch it why would you want to touch the fence electrified or not electrified when you just walk through a door yeah yeah yeah that'd be the best way to do it but this electrified fence you mentioned wild dogs it actually used to keep out wild boars you have wild boars in your neighborhood wait and the wild boars are only around at a certain time well no they can come around during the day too I would presume but I think it's I think they're worse at night for some reason okay well I think wild boars yeah I don't really understand it either but it'd be bad any time I think okay have you seen a wild boar yeah we saw one we saw one wild boar and it was pretty massive I mean it looked like it could do some significant damage so I can understand why that fence is electrified okay well you're having an interesting time out there yeah I'll tell you it's absolutely great I've not been here and I'm a big fan of this part of the world we're about 12 kilometers away from Sardinia earlier today and that's another island in this Sardinia is Italian Corsica is French but Corsica used to be Italian so there's a lot of Italian culture and heritage here and one of the things I found very fascinating about Corsicans is that they have a lot of animosity towards the mainland French as well and the language here is that they speak as French but they also have a French version I'm sorry a Corsican version of French that seems to have a lot of use in the words and as you drive around the island you see that there's very often the French version of a sign and then underneath it the Corsican version so kind of the local language and they don't like France or certain people don't like France to such an extent that they have spray painted over the French version of a lot of the words and the signs and just left the Corsican version which I thought was very kind of cool in a lot of ways this could explain occasionally I've seen a foreign film on TV that seems to be in French but it has French subtitles so maybe it was in Corsican and they were giving French subtitles for the French speakers yeah it's quite possible and you know a lot of the words look very very different they're somewhat Italian looking in origin and root and a lot of them end in U for some reason and Corsica also by the way it goes back to the Carthaginian empire and it's where Napoleon was born so we were at Napoleon's house you know not in a juxtu not too far from here a couple of days ago so some pretty cool stuff I have to say and I would recommend any of our listeners who would ever want to explore this bit of the world to really consider Corsica it's a pretty fascinating place all right well now that we've gotten that out of the way we this update we have upgraded a little bit Kyle has been working hard on the studio our studio out here the remote studio and I am happy to say that we are now in stereo that means I'm in the I should be in the left channel now and Kyle I think you're in the right channel no I'm in the left channel you're in the left channel how are you in the left channel no it says right here you're in the right channel it might still be backwards or your headphones might be backwards yeah my headphones are backwards now it helps if you turn your speakers if you take one speaker and put it on the other side of the room and take the other speaker and put it on the that'll correct it so if you're listening to us on the radio you should hear us in different different parts of your head all over yeah but we're not going to do that whole show because it kind of drives you and I don't think folks out there in skype land I don't think you can hear this can you we cannot hear stereo over skype but I can take your word for it that we're going over the airwaves that way is skype not stereo at all skype is mono really wow their feed is mono how 1950s I had to trade some things around this cost us okay yeah I'm sure it did we reserve the right to pan at will or just run across the room and go over there yeah absolutely but we've played with it enough and this should result in a better quality better technical quality at least I can't speak to the rest of the show okay had we been on last week we certainly would have been talking about our friend Mudge who was in the news as the twitter whistleblower you guys heard about this I think twitter's former head of security alleged that the company misled regulators about its poor cyber security defenses and its negligence in attempting to root out fake accounts that spread disinformation that revelation could create serious legal and financial problems for the social media platform especially in the midst of its battle with Elon Musk but Peter Zatko who was known in the hacker world as Mudge was twitter security chief until he was fired earlier this year the thing is he was fired in their words for not living up to the job or not being effective if you know Mudge and many of us do that is the last thing that I think you could ever say of him and the fact that he has revealed this information well according to a representative of his this is a last resort for him he said that Mudge had exhausted all attempts to get his concerns resolved inside the company before his firing in January now among his most serious accusations is that twitter violated the terms of the 2011 FTC settlement by falsely claiming that it had put stronger measures in place to protect the security and privacy of its users he also accuses the company of deceptions involving its handling spam or fake accounts which as we all know is an allegation at the core of Elon Musk's attempt to back out of the twitter takeover now as I mentioned Mudge is highly respected he's a cyber security expert he first gained prominence in the 1990s he was part of the loft he testified in front of congress he might remember he was part of the group that said they could take down the internet in a half hour if they had the chance to do so just to wake people up and say yeah it's not that secure it really isn't now twitter said in a prepared statement a week ago that Mudge was fired for ineffective leadership and poor performance I don't know what much they're talking about here but they said the allegations and opportunistic timing appear designed to capture attention and inflict harm on twitter its customers and its shareholders the company called this complaint a false narrative that is riddled with inconsistencies and inaccuracies and lacks important context Mudge's attorneys Deborah Katz and Alexis Roniker said twitter's claim about his poor performance is false and that he repeatedly raised concerns about grossly inadequate information security systems with top executives and twitter's board of directors you know i would bet anything that is why he was fired the lawyer said that in late 2021 after the board was given whitewashed information about those security problems Mudge escalated his concerns clashed with CEO Parag Agarwal and board member Omid Kadistani and was fired two weeks later the 84 page complaint describes a broken corporate culture at twitter that lacked effective leadership and where Mudge said top executives practiced deliberate ignorance of pressing problems his description of Jack Dorsey's leadership style is particularly scathing considering Jack Dorsey was the guy who brought him in in the first place he described the twitter founder as extremely disengaged during the last months of his tenure as CEO to the point where he would not even speak during meetings on complex issues facing the company all of this sounds so believable and understandable too because of where twitter has gone and how it operates and the ugliness that comes out of it it all makes sense but you gotta listen to the people the whistleblowers the people telling you the emperor has no clothes and when you punish them instead of listening to them you wind up living a nightmare and I think that's what twitter is going to go through now absolutely I mean if you look into Mudge's description of the state of things at twitter I mean it's believable if you're familiar with the tech startup Silicon Valley scene but it's also at this point in twitter's history with the big deal to sell it to someone who should probably not be named because he doesn't need any more free publicity but he's a very rich person with weird looking cars and the state of that deal is really in this strange flux at the moment which would I think be very much affected by the situation in Mudge's complaint I don't think we could see reasons that Mudge would really want to make this sort of thing up and trash his career over there if this were not the case I find it all very very believable yeah again you know if you know the guy and I know many many people who do know the guy I know myself who's been on the radio show the word honor and integrity the words honor and integrity always bob up to the top when talking about him and you know the hacker community judges harshly if there were any question of that you wouldn't see such near unanimous praising of his abilities his basically what he believes in not only that I'm still over here I'm sorry permission to come back to the mid whoa okay okay just especially since he's got so much to say I mean if he's so ineffectual you'd think okay he'd slink off and you know their point would be substantiated but it kind of seems less justified when he's got all of this stuff to describe and characterize as to the real situation there plus a whole bunch of things that he relinquished to oversight or I guess public officials and so forth Alex looks like you have some input here yeah absolutely this is something I think that's been bubbling over for the last week or so and I think we'll continue to do so Rob's right to I'll mention his name I guess because it's easier but I think there are going to be clear implications to the Musk deal we see that Mudge I believe this past weekend was served with a subpoena by Musk's lawyers so that they're planning on probably trying to elicit some testimony or even possibly obtain some documents and records from Mudge with respect to their own claims but I think from Twitter's perspective here what's really concerning to me is that Mudge documented that Twitter might have misled US government regulators and when you let's say if that's true assuming for the second for the sake of argument that Mudge's allegations are true and Twitter had misled the FTC and did so knowingly that's not really a good look for Twitter and there will be repercussions if they were not truthful with government regulators and if they were not truthful with their investors there could be massive repercussions and as well as if they were untruthful with their advertisers as well because that's where their revenue is coming from and this is something that dovetails with Musk's allegations as well you were going to say something yeah well it's interesting that you bring that up because in 2011 you might remember there was an FTC complaint which said the Twitter systems were full of highly sensitive data that could allow hostile government to find precise location data for specific users and target them for violence or arrest you might recall earlier this month a former Twitter employee was found guilty in California of passing along sensitive Twitter user data to royal family members in Saudi Arabia in exchange for bribes much alleged that Twitter knowingly allowed the Indian government to place its agents on the company payroll where they had direct unsupervised access to the company systems and user data Twitter was also according to the FTC complaint they were heavily reliant on funding by Chinese entities and that there were concerns within Twitter that the company was providing information to those entities that would enable them to learn the identity and sensitive information of Chinese users who secretly use Twitter so there's a laundry list of potential really really serious compromising of data and even if you look at the Elon Musk story that's been developing over the past few months you see there was a point where he was given full unbridled access to all of the data in Twitter so that he could see for himself just how many accounts were spam accounts or fake accounts which meant that you know by from what I can gather from that he could basically find that anything about anybody if he chose to and I understand within Twitter a lot of people have that ability and that is Twitter I mean there are people who communicate with direct messaging thinking that that's completely safe and secure trusting Twitter and it's not it really is not and all sorts of other information is oftentimes entrusted to them that could very well be abused I think you're right about this in a lot of ways and I think if you combine so many of the points that Mudge made in his disclosures and I think it's important to note he made these disclosures I believe it was to the SEC to the FTC and then to certain members of Congress and then it was through certain members of Congress that had disclosed the report over to the Washington Post that originated the first stories about Mudge and his whistle blowing with regard to Twitter but if you combine all these points together for instance the fact that Twitter might not have been utilizing something that we call in the cybersecurity community least privilege which is making sure that users only have the privileges that they need to have in order to do their jobs and essentially granting access willy-nilly to large-scale production environments that Mudge alleged in his report is you combine that with a lack of patch systems and some kind of central vulnerability management that you would expect an organization like Twitter to have and on top of that the fact that they might have turned a blind eye to the fact that there are foreign nationals working for foreign powers that may be on their payroll and you have a perfect storm for human rights abuses like you had just described in Emmanuel to take place where people can be identified dissidents may be able to be identified by government agents essentially on the payroll of Twitter and Twitter and I think this was central to Mudge's motivation here not only in the disclosures but from what I understand to be his reasoning for going over to Twitter in the first place was that he saw it to be a platform that was central to the functioning of not only American democracy but democracies around the world and that making that a safer and more secure space was certainly worth his time and his effort and so when he was pushed out for trying to do that that's why I think he resorted to the whistleblowing but we have talked about this so many times about the centrality of Twitter and the debates that happen on it and if you think about the fact that our prior president which maybe we'll talk about him a little bit later tonight too but our prior president was having discussions with other nuclear powers on this crazy platform I mean there's so much that happens on it it has become this thing for which it was not actually intended to be this thing for which it wasn't originally intended to be created but this area and this platform for discourse between nations and citizens and peoples that it has a place of importance in our society that I think nobody really thought about let's say 15 years or so we wouldn't have really imagined that Twitter would be what it was today and so the idea that it has these glaring security holes that people are just trying to brush under the rug is really concerning I think you might want to listen to some of our earlier radio shows some of which you were on where we're always warning people about things like this because the thing is Twitter is a tool it's not a tool to bolster democracy it's a tool it can be used to bolster democracy it can also be used to tear it down we've seen both and unless you have governance within the organization that is strongly behind one of those concepts it's going to be used and abused by everybody to their heart's content and that is what we are seeing now and I think that's what much is speaking to Kyle you have to me yeah we have to stop talking and thinking about new platforms like this and technologies in only the most glowing altruistic terms to boost interest and sales that's tempting in terms of making something viable or introducing it and getting some support for it but we tend to kind of only want to continue to think about it in those altruistic sort of salesy glowing terms I just see this repeat of presenting something and people on the side who are interested in something might comment on it but the lion share of the attitudes towards it are that this is the best new type of phone or this is the best new type of service or something that you just sort of have to accept only in the ways that it's characterized to sell it which are inherently all positive things right all the great features and we never really absorb and internalize the bugs that we are absolutely going to encounter and people like us keep saying it over and over again and it's just it's like a running joke that you know it comes out something goes wrong and here we come with a story about it it's like the abuse is a very common thing yet every time something comes at us it's presented as though it's a game changer it's life changing it's going to do nothing but good Alex yeah I agree with you on that front Kyle and you know the other thing I think there's going to be some unintentional consequences of Mudge's disclosures here too in that you know we're realizing now as well that every single one of these platforms has its issues right you know things historical problems that we can point to you know you've got TikTok being beholden to China in lots of ways and many concerns about its data flows over the last weeks and months you've got Facebook which has a number of woes associated with it going back to the 2016 election in Cambridge Analytica and election interference you also have that happening to a certain extent on Twitter now you have these blaring security holes that are well documented by a highly respected member of our community and it makes you wonder what platform is out there that hasn't been abused and misused in some way and to such an extent that we now have to question whether or not we can trust it with our data and so that's going to have I think some spillover effect in Congress and there has been a push finally for some overarching and overhauling of the federal government stance when it comes to privacy and data protection and I think that Mudge's disclosures here are going to be pushing Congress to be in a position of having much more oversight over these particular platforms and I think will have a major impact on this overarching federal privacy legislation that we see on the horizon but Alex do you think the bozos in Congress have any better grasp of privacy and security than people in the industry yeah I do to a certain extent some of them are right up on there we always talk about Senator Ron Wyden he is I think at the top okay but I counter that with Ted Cruz now what are you going to do you know that's true look so many idiots out there and I have a problem trusting them with anything despite the number of good people that are out there you know it's not always just about the individual senators or the members of Congress staffers that work for them that generally and I think for the most part in many instances are often smarter than that and these staffers are young people that are paying attention to this and are getting it and are feeding hopefully the right information to these representatives but if they're still beholden to other interests you know that that's what I'm worried about you know who is it that's sending them checks and making donations yeah no doubt I think that's true but I do think that you'll have people leading the charge people like Senator Ron Wyden I think that we can you need somebody else in addition to him that's true yeah well you know it's hard to come up with somebody going I think he's on that level but it's going to have an effect you know there will be an effect incentive to lots of other state legislatures to come and bring the hammer down perhaps on these massive social media platforms and perhaps regulate their data more at a state level than they had seen before which is certainly not what these platforms want because the patchwork of legislation that we have when it comes to privacy and data protection in the United States is kind of all over the map from state to state you have to regulate according to the lowest common denominator and so they're hoping for some kind of overarching federal legislation to come through that would make their lives easier and if this results in an additional layer of patchwork legislation at the state level it's just going to make their lives much more difficult I think the states can be sort of labs for this and often end up being trying things out seeing too and I'm hearing in this is this organizing effect that a voice like Mudge somebody who gets it and has a real passion for making things right or getting them functioning in a way that is safer is better for the people using those things so I think the organizing effect is that the things that can be twisted around and kind of veer off for political ends I be separated out or at least that organization can make going off with some detail for a political reason less tempting for those political actors involved and I think that the job everybody has a job being involved in really making sense of these big stories and as you said that sort of underlying will and desire to get privacy and some of the updates we need on the books so anyway I think the political actors involved do have a role to play but it's a lot more about finding coalition and communicating that effectively to gain support showing things like bipartisan support that kind of their understandings of it should be somewhat detailed but I think they oftentimes bite off more than they can really speak to without interpretation from experts or from staffers as Alex mentioned so it is definitely coalescing it seems like this is all the pieces of really breaking all of this down and voices like Mudge who've got experience and want to say something about it may be able to really help define what are the pieces at play here how do they work what are the risks all of that kind of assessment I think we could have a better understanding of after having learned so much about what's going on at Twitter look I think the evidence is in that data is not being securely kept we can't trust these entities and we just need to adjust our behavior to take that into account where our lives are not an open book on their platforms where every little detail is not something that we are storing on one particular system and that we do our bit to try and muddy the waters a little you don't have to have every bit of information about your personal life anywhere you really don't except in your head and you can use different identities you don't have to give out specific locations you can speak in code hey it's fun to learn these things believe me it's just assume that when you are using a system that is not a system that you are running yourself that it's being looked at by hostile entities and I think that's a problem we haven't been doing that we have been too trusting and it doesn't mean you have to be negative doesn't mean you have to assume everyone's out to get you it's it's a mental challenge it means just looking out making sure that you lock the door behind you you turn the oven off that kind of thing you just got to be careful with your personal data and if everybody just acted that way didn't take Twitter so damn seriously I mean there should not be official government statements made on Twitter ever it's I don't take it seriously enough for that to happen you know and by the same token if somebody hacks into some official's Twitter account and says something funny they shouldn't go to jail for that it's a prank you know don't take it so seriously we have the means we have able to be backed up by all sorts of ways of knowing that you're actually listening to somebody who they say they are but it's not Twitter it's not Facebook it's not TikTok that's for damn sure well and speaking of official channels of communication and governmental interactions I think the evidence actually is not already in Emmanuel I think you know we're going to hear a lot more from Mudge because he has been called to testify again before Congress and I think he's going to be testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 13th so in just about two weeks you know we probably will hear more and we'll be talking more about that particular testimony and what I find really fascinating about this whole story too is that number one it is being propelled by the platform itself that is being criticized as well which is really kind of fascinating if you think about it you know the story breaks it gets onto Twitter it gets this momentum and Twitter's response here which seemed to be the kind of pre canned corporate response which is to claim that the employee was fired for some kind of derogatory or behavior or some kind of deficient leadership practice etc etc performance based nonsense right it's always now the person was terminated because of performance based issues and now they're grinding this particular axe that they have against the company and the what came out against it the contrary notions and ideas that all spread on Twitter and it was through the hacker community and information security cyber security community where they came out and said no no no this doesn't fit your pre canned corporate response essentially to blame the messenger here for having an axe to grind is not going to work because Mudge is somebody that's so highly respected in our community and known to so many to have really unimpeachable integrity and it was that notion that spread through Twitter itself to come through that I thought particularly ironic but I'm really curious as to what his testimony is going to be before Congress in a couple of weeks what they're going to ask him and I think if I were to guess they were going to be focusing particularly on this notion of hostile foreign nations having access to Twitter and the types of influence operations that they may be able to get away with because of those lax security concerns that Mudge had identified so certainly a hell of a lot more to come on this space hopefully that'll be on C-SPAN because that sounds like it'll be riveting you say that's on the 13th of September I think that's correct I think that's correct I mean all this is obviously subject to being moved but I believe it's on the 13th because Mudge got a subpoena from Elon Musk as you mentioned earlier and he's due to be deposed on the 9th of September so it's going to be a busy week well it's one trip you know how do you know Musk is in DC oh why wouldn't it be he could be in space you don't know where he is oh I don't know if he's going to be a part of it I think it's just a bunch of attorneys you know he wants to be a part of it I don't know where are they testifying that the space thing or the Twitter no it's a Twitter thing polar opposites Musk and Mudge polar it's in California I don't know I don't care it doesn't matter Delaware yeah the must battle with Twitter that's happening in the Delaware Chancery Court but he can be deposed anywhere but look Delaware is not too far from DC hey we're almost out of time we are going to be on overtime later I think Alex you're going to bail for overtime not even for the first few minutes maybe I'll that'll be at 8 o'clock on YouTube just check the link at 2600 on the top of the page or just go to channel 2600 on YouTube at 8 o'clock you can call us talk to us that kind of hi again I did not mean for the email to be quite an angry tone as you read it let me just say you have nothing to apologize for that was entirely dramatic interpretation that we took on ourselves and we're sorry if it caused you any grief or confusion did not mean for that to be the case at all unlike some world leaders I don't hesitate to admit my mistakes I apologize pointing out a difference of opinion on a technical issue which is completely valid continuing here I just felt that you should adhere to accuracy as you do with most subjects so I felt frustrated when nobody in a hacker radio show knew how to use Apple computers I been listening to the off the hook archive from the beginning you used to talk about breaking the phone systems now none of you even if I sounded like an a-hole I may have sounded like one again oh boy and as a token of good will I became a WBAI buddy on behalf of off the hook thank you Lobsterminator I think I'm saying it right for listening for donating for challenging us just for being there it matters and don't ever apologize for an opinion and if you want to become a BAI buddy you can do so as well simply go to the website I forgot the website Rob help me out here give to wbai.org that's it that's the one give to wbai.org and the number two the number two give to wbai.org and you can become BAI buddy say that off the hook is your favorite radio show and you can donate every month whatever amount you can afford you or you can go to wbai.org as well I think there's a link there and we're going to work very hard to download all the music from iTunes to our phone yeah well I use iTunes all the time but I use it on a PC I don't use it on a Mac yeah yeah you can still make it function right here with various versions there are people that play with those with us we'll read them on the air and since you started this whole controversy is there anything you'd like to say in closing I mean I would first of all just like to thank everybody who has reached out to the show to explain to me that all I have to do is use iTunes and it works and it's fine so thank you all I don't feel dumb in the least good but on another note would month find your local 2600 meeting on the web at 2600 dot org com com or net com yeah or net or or horse look for the meeting link big news for the New York City meeting this month is we're going in person only okay wow how about that and attendance is mandatory for everybody listening forced socialization once we said on April fools that there was a dress code at 2600 meetings and so many people got angry while we were just trying to improve the quality of the meetings a little bit but it was April 1st yeah we do things like that sometimes okay folks we are out of time again YouTube at 8 o'clock we'll be back again next week at 7 o'clock here on WBAI write to us OTH at 2600 dot com and don't forget never never never never believe the hype see you next time good night don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't believe the hype don't don't don't don't don't believe the hype yes was the start of my last jam so here it is again Another death jam But since I gave you all a little something that I knew you lacked They still consider me a new jack All the critics, you can hang them, I hold the rope But they hope to the Pope and pray it ain't dope The follower of Farrakhan They'll tell me that you understand Until you hear the man They'll book up the new school rap game Writers treat me like Coltrane, insane Yes, to them, but to me, I'm a different kind We're brothers of the same mind, unblind Caught in the middle end, not surrendering I don't rhyme for the sake of Ritalin So claim that I'm a smuggler Some say I never heard of ya A rap burglar, false media We don't need it, do we? 
It's fake, that's what it be to you, dig me? 
Yo, Terminator X Step up on the stand and show these people what time it is, boy Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype Don't believe the hype Don't believe the hype Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype Don't believe the hype, it's a sequel As an equal, can I get this through to you? 
My 98 booming with a trunk of funk All the jealous punk can't stop the dunk Coming from the school of hard knocks Some perpetrate, they drink borax Attack the black because I know they lack exact The cold facts, and still they try the Xerox The leader of the new school, uncool Never played a fool, just made the rule Remember there's a need to get alarmed? 
Again, I said I was a time bomb In the daytime, radio scared of me Cause I'm mad, plus I'm the enemy They can't come on and play me in prime time Cause I know the time, cause I'm getting mine I get on the mix late in the night They know I'm living right So here goes the mic site Before I let it go, don't rush my show You try to reach and grab and get elbowed Word to her, yo, if you can't swing this Learn the words You might sing this Just a little bit of the taste of the bass for you As you get up and dance at the LQ With some denial to buy it, I swing bolos And then it clear the lane, I go solo The meaning of all the lack of media is the wax As you believe it's true, it blows me through the roof Suckers, liars, get me a shovel Some writers I know are damn devils From them I say, don't believe the heist Yo Chuck, they must be on a pipe, right? 
Depends the pads I fetch, cause I've had it I'm not an addict, fiend, if we're static I see the taste recorder and I grab it No you can't have it back, silly rabbit I'm going to my media assassin Harry Allen, I gotta ask him Yo Harry, you're a writer, are we that tight? 
Don't believe the hype Now here's what I want y'all to do for me Don't believe Don't, don't, don't believe the hype Don't believe Don't, don't, don't believe the hype I got flavor And all those things you know Yeah boy, part to bum rough the show Yo Grimp Get the green, black, and red in Gold down, countdown, and Armageddon 88 to wait, the S1s will Put the less in effect, and I still will Rock the hard jam, treat it like a seminar Reach the force wall Hi, this is Julian Joyello And I'm a listener and supporter of WBAI I'm a student at NYU and I live in New York City And I want to shout out to the other young listeners of WBAI We have to help keep this station going And the easiest way to do it is through the WBAI buddy system If you donate as little as $10 a month You have proactively promoted free speech radio Go to the website WBAI.org Click the donate button And make a difference And the highest in Become a Year To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode amiento To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To h Commode To whome To h Commode To h Commode You know dalam