the best way to find digital recorders from David Rom on 2010-10-03 (file.mbox)

From: David Rom <da..._at_gdis.co.il>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:23:18 +0200

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Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] {5128} Re: {5085} the best way to find digital recorders
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:09:27 +0200
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How about the Broom, surely this will detect a digital recorder ?

=20

Regards

DMMG

=20

 _____ =20

From: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com [mailto:tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of James M. Atkinson
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:10 AM
To: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {5128} Re: {5085} the best way to find digital
recorders

=20

A NJLD will provide unreliably results, and a high probability of a missed
eavesdropping device.

A spread spectrum NLJD will give better results, and a broad band "chirped"
or "swept" NLJD will give even better results.

If you can use an spectrum analyzer that has a "discontinuous sweep
generator" as part of the spectrum analyzer then you can use the spectrum
analyzer itself as an NLJD and there will be zero reason to haul a NLJD to
the job site. The ESA-E is a good example of this where you can illuminate
at one frequency, and have the SA display only the harmonics of where you
are illuminating, and give you audio of the signal via the Y/Z axis output.

It is pretty cool to turn a spectrum analyzer into the the
Mother-of-all-NLJD's

-jma

Humberto Sodre wrote:=20

James,=20

The best way to find a digital recorder or any device that is not
broadcasting an RF signal with good intensity, is not to use a non-linear
junction detector?=20

Humberto Rigotti=20

=20

2010/10/24 James M. Atkinson <jm..._at_tscm.com>

The loop antenna that you describe will help a little, but as the
frequencies get lower and lower the geometry of the antenna starts getting
cumbersome, things start getting larger, and is you use a sideband antenna
is is very easy to saturate the entire band that you are trying to filter,
the specific frequency you are seeking is not finely dialed in, and it can
be tricky to use for this.=20

Yes, the loop and bandpass filter will work, and I have used them in the
past like this. But I got vastly better results when I wound a single bar
antenna of a very specific frequency, and tunes it so that essentially it
was a huge filter itself. Then I ran it into a small concentrator ring
inside the frequency specific antenna, and then outside of the antenna
passed the signal into a BPF attached to a ultra-low noise pre-amplifier.

cptkaos wrote:=20

How effective would a bandpass filter (say 32.0 KHz - 32.9 KHz) be
when used with a loop antenna with the range of 20 Hz to 50 KHz?
=20
On Oct 18, 2:51 pm, "James M. Atkinson" <mailto:j..._at_tscm.com>
<j..._at_tscm.com> wrote:
=20

The optimal electronic way is to use a magnetic antenna, in the form of
a small loop of ferrite core with a very sharp bandpass filter at 32.768
kHz. A good rule is that if you can "hear" the timing crystal on a
digital from 2 feet away you should be able to "hear" any magnetic
radiation coming off a digital recorder.
=20
A very sophisticated digital recorder that presents miniscule amounts of
RF energy will often provide a considerable magnetic signal if you know
what to watch for.
=20
The spy is going to deal with a very large and very heavy enclosure to
keep this leakage down, but since most spies obsess on keeping their
devices small they compromise the detection of magnetic signals.
=20
I have some very nice stick antenna's that I have made that are resonant
right at 32.768 kHz, and they are easy enough to build and impedance
match to a 50 ohm filter, and then to a 50 ohm pre-amp, but get the
preamp well away from the antenna and use double shielded cables for
everything. It does involve thousands of loops of wire, some careful
use of capacitors, a ferrite loop, and a piston cap to settle it right
on frequency.
=20
-jma
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
David Rom wrote:
 =20

Hi TSCM experts
 =20

what is the best way to fins digital recorders in while we sweep a room?
 =20

David Rom
 =20

GD Intelligence Security LTD.
 =20

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:54 PM, <soca..._at_aol.com
<mailto:soca..._at_aol.com> <mailto:soca..._at_aol.com>> wrote:
 =20

 Bug Hunting with Anritsu's Spectrum Master=EF=BF=BD
 =20

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjGv3nNSIsfo--
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the
 Granite Island Group "TSCM-L Professionals List" group which is
 the oldest, and the largest TSCM group on Earth. To post to this
 group, send E-Mail to TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com
 <mailto:TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com>
<mailto:TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com>, to contact the list owner
 and moderator please send an E-Mail message to j..._at_tscm.com
 <mailto:j..._at_tscm.com> <mailto:j..._at_tscm.com>.
 =20

 This group is sponsored by Granite Island Group
 http://www.tscm.com/to improve the profession of hunting spies,
 and to educate others in the craft of technical
 counter-intelligence. Granite Island Group performs bug sweeps
 like it's a full contact sport; we take no prisoners, we don't
 play fair, and we give no quarter. Our professional goal is to
 simply, and completely stop the spy.
 =20

 Granite Island Group Offers World Class, Professional, Ethical,
 and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using
 Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment.
 =20

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Granite
Island Group "TSCM-L Professionals List" group which is the oldest,
and the largest TSCM group on Earth. To post to this group, send
E-Mail to TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com, to contact the list owner and
moderator please send an E-Mail message to j..._at_tscm.com.
 =20

This group is sponsored by Granite Island Grouphttp://www.tscm.com/
to improve the profession of hunting spies, and to educate others in
the craft of technical counter-intelligence. Granite Island Group
performs bug sweeps like it's a full contact sport; we take no
prisoners, we don't play fair, and we give no quarter. Our
professional goal is to simply, and completely stop the spy.
 =20

Granite Island Group Offers World Class, Professional, Ethical, and
Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated
Laboratory Grade Test Equipment.
 =20

--
James M. Atkinson
President and Sr. Engineer
Granite Island Group
jm..._at_tscm.comhttp://www.tscm.com/- Hide quoted text -
=20
- Show quoted text -
 =20

=20

=20

--=20
James M. Atkinson
President and Sr. Engineer
Granite Island Group
jm..._at_tscm.com
http://www.tscm.com/
 =20

=20

--=20
James M. Atkinson
President and Sr. Engineer
Granite Island Group
jm..._at_tscm.com
http://www.tscm.com/

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<div class=3DSection1>

How about the Broom, surely this will
detect a digital recorder ?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Regards<o:p></o:p>

DMMG<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</div>

From: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com
[mailto:tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of James M. Atkinson 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 20=
10
1:10 AM 
To: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.co=
m 
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {5128}=
Re:
{5085} the best way to find digital recorders<o:p></o:p>

</div>

=
<o:p> </o:p>

=
A NJLD will provide unreliably results, and a hi=
gh
probability of a missed eavesdropping device. 
 
A spread spectrum NLJD will give better results, and a broad band
"chirped" or "swept" NLJD will give even better results=
. 
 
If you can use an spectrum analyzer that  has a "discontinuous sw=
eep
generator"  as part of the spectrum analyzer then you can use the
spectrum analyzer itself as an NLJD and there will be zero reason to haul a
NLJD to the job site. The ESA-E is a good example of this where you  c=
an
illuminate at one frequency, and have the SA display only the harmonics of
where you are illuminating, and give you audio of the signal via the Y/Z ax=
is
output. 
 
It is pretty cool to turn a spectrum analyzer into the the Mother-of-all-NL=
JD's 
 
-jma 
 
 
 
Humberto Sodre wrote: <o:p></o:p>

<div>

=

<meta http-equiv=3DContext-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1"=
>
James, <o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

=
The best way to find =
a digital
recorder or any device that is not broadcasting an RF signal with good
intensity, is not to use a non-linear junction detector? <o:p=
></o:p>

</div>

<div>

=
Humberto Rigotti </sp=
an><o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

=
 <o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

=
2010/10/24 James M. Atkinson <<a
href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>jm..._at_tscm.com</a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<div>

=
The loop antenna that you describe will help a l=
ittle,
but as the frequencies get lower and lower the geometry of the antenna star=
ts
getting cumbersome, things start getting larger, and is you use a sideband
antenna is is very easy to saturate the entire band that you are trying to
filter, the specific frequency you are seeking is not finely dialed in, and=
it
can be tricky to use for this. 
 
Yes, the loop and bandpass filter will work, and I have used them in the pa=
st
like this. But I got vastly better results when I wound a single bar antenn=
a of
a very specific frequency, and tunes it so that essentially it was a huge
filter itself. Then I ran it into a small concentrator ring inside the
frequency specific antenna, and then  outside of the antenna passed th=
e
signal into a BPF attached to a ultra-low noise pre-amplifier. 
 
cptkaos wrote: <o:p></o:p>

<pre>How effective would a bandpass filter (say 32.0 KHz - 32.9 KHz=
) be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>when used with a loop antenna with the range of 20 Hz to 50 KHz?<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Oct 18, 2:51 pm, "James M. Atkinson" <a
href=3D"mailto:j..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>&lt..._at_tscm.com></a=
> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">The optimal electronic way is to use a magnetic antenna, in the form of<o=
:p></o:p></pre><pre>a small loop of ferrite core with a very sharp bandpass filter at 32.768<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>kHz. A good rule is that if you can "hear" the timing crystal o=
n a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>digital from 2 feet away you should be able to "hear" any magne=
tic<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>radiation coming off a digital recorder.<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>A very sophisticated digital recorder that presents miniscule amounts of<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>RF energy will often provide a considerable magnetic signal if you know<o=
:p></o:p></pre><pre>what to watch for.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>The spy is going to deal with a very large and very heavy enclosure to<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>keep this leakage down, but since most spies obsess on keeping their<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>devices small they compromise the detection of magnetic signals.<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I have some very nice stick antenna's that I have made that are resonant<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>right at 32.768 kHz, and they are easy enough to build and impedance<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>match to a 50 ohm filter, and then to a 50 ohm pre-amp, but get the<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>preamp well away from the antenna and use double shielded cables for<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>everything.  It does involve thousands of loops of wire, some carefu=
l<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>use of capacitors, a ferrite loop, and a piston cap to settle it right<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>on frequency.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-jma<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>David Rom wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">Hi TSCM experts<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">what is the best way to fins digital recorders in while we sweep a room?<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">David Rom<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">GD Intelligence Security LTD.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:54 PM, <<a
href=3D"mailto:soca..._at_aol.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>soca..._at_aol.com</a><=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href=3D"mailto:soca..._at_aol.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue><mailto:soca..._at_a=
ol.com></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">      Bug Hunting with Anritsu's Spectrum Master=EF=BF=BD<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">   <a
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjGv3nNSIsfo" moz-do-not-send=3Dtru=
e>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjGv3nNSIsfo</a>--<o:p></o:p></fon=
t></pre><pre>    You received this message because you are subscribed to the=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    Granite Island Group "TSCM-L Professionals List" =
group which is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    the oldest, and the largest TSCM group on Earth. To post to=
this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    group, send E-Mail to <a
href=3D"mailto:TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>TSCM-..._at_g=
ooglegroups.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    <a
href=3D"mailto:TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue><mailto=
:TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com></a>, to contact the list owner<o:p></o:p></s=
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href=3D"mailto:j..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>j..._at_tscm.com</a><o:p>=
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href=3D"mailto:j..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue><mailto:j..._at_tscm.c=
om></a>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">    This group is sponsored by Granite Island Group<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre><pre>   <a
href=3D"http://www.tscm.com/to" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>http://www.tscm.com/=
to</a> improve the profession of hunting spies,<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre>    and to educate others in the craft of technical<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre><pre>    counter-intelligence. Granite Island Group performs bug swe=
eps<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    like it's a full contact sport; we take no prisoners, we do=
n't<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    play fair, and we give no quarter. Our professional goal is=
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    simply, and completely stop the spy.<o:p></o:p></fon=
t></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">    Granite <st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Island</st1:place> Group Offers World Class, Professional, Ethi=
cal,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>    and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>    Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment.<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Granite<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>Island Group "TSCM-L Professionals List" group which is the old=
est,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and the largest TSCM group on Earth. To post to this group, send<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>E-Mail to <a
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ooglegroups.com</a>, to contact the list owner and<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><pre>moderator please send an E-Mail message to <a
href=3D"mailto:j..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>j..._at_tscm.com</a>.<o:p=
></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">This group is sponsored by Granite Island Grouphttp://<a
href=3D"http://www.tscm.com/" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>www.tscm.com/</a><o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>to improve the profession of hunting spies, and to educate others in<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>the craft of technical counter-intelligence. Granite Island Group<o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre>performs bug sweeps like it's a full contact sport; we take no<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><pre>prisoners, we don't play fair, and we give no quarter. Our<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre>professional goal is to simply, and completely stop the spy.<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite><pre=
><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">Granite Island Group Offers World Class, Professional, Ethical, and<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated<o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">Laboratory Grade Test Equipment.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>James M. Atkinson<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>President and Sr. Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Granite Island Group<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.comhttp://www.tscm.com/" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>j=
m..._at_tscm.comhttp://www.tscm.com/</a>- Hide quoted text -<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>- Show quoted text -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>

<pre>=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre>

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<o:p> </o:p>

<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>James M. Atkinson<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>President and Sr. Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Granite Island Group<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>jm..._at_tscm.com</a><o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href=3D"http://www.tscm.com/" moz-do-not-send=3Dtrue>http://www.tscm.com/</=
a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=A0=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre></div>

</blockquote>

</div>

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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>James M. Atkinson<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>President and Sr. Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Granite Island Group<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com">jm..._at_tscm.com</a><o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre><a
href=3D"http://www.tscm.com/">http://www.tscm.com/</a><o:p></o:p></f=
ont></pre></div>

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