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To: TSCM-L2006_at_googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6485} Aeroflot Flight 150
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Or perhaps he is part of some sort of psy ops. Why is it when millions of p=
eople all over the world marched against Monsanto not too long ago, all of =
the social networks deleted all posts and tweets about it and the main stre=
am media also blacked it out?=20
=20
But supposedly Snowden is some sort of "whistle blower" and he gets wayyyy =
too much publicity? Something is fishy and I'd figure that intelligent, exp=
erienced investigators like you all would smell that fishy smell..especiall=
y the guys here who are familiar with intelligent agencies and their brilli=
ant, diabolical "tricks" and "distractions".=20
All the Hub-Bub with him being in Hong Kong, and then staying in Hong Kong =
a bit too long suggests that his tradecraft is remarkably poor.
-----Original Message-----
From: James M. Atkinson <jm..._at_tscm.com>
To: tscm-l2006 <tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6485} Aeroflot Flight 150
When I look at the Snowden affair, there is a major flaw in the way that he=
handled this travel arrangements.
The flight from Hawaii to Hong Kong was not a bad option as he could becom=
e invisible in that city provided he possessed good trade craft, but one he=
gave the first interview to the Guardian he needed to leave right away, an=
d with no delays. The flight to Russia as a good option, but he needed to b=
e at his final destination before the Guardian ran anything, and actually b=
efore the Guardian broadcast anything back to England, or any draft copies =
of the report were filed.
If he was really, really sharp, he would have flown from Hawaii to Washing=
ton, DC, held the Guardian interviews in DC (using good tradecraft), then s=
econds after the interview, before the Guardian uploaded or transmitted eve=
n the first word of the article for Snowden to be on a flight to Canada, wi=
th a connecting flight to Cuba or South America. But, Snowden would have ne=
eded to initiated his asylum request(s) well in advance of his Guardian in=
terviews, and certainly well before his bugging out after the Guardian inte=
rviews.
If as actually quite foolish for him to provide interviews where he identi=
fied himself while he as still "in transit".=20
It would have been a much better option for him to leak a little while he=
was still in Hawaii, but to give no interviews. Then in Hong Kong to leak=
a few more documents, but to give no interviews, then to fly into France, =
leak more documents, request asylum and then leave right away, use the Chun=
nel to get to England, leak more, request asylum from a second group of Sou=
th American countries, then fly to Canada leak more, and then fly to Cuba a=
nd actually stay in Cuba for a while, and while in Cuba give his very first=
on camera interviews. Or even have the Guardian sit on the interviews unt=
il he as at his foreign destinations,
It would have been even wiser for his to actually be on vacation in Venez=
uela , and to do all of the interviews with the Guardian in that country.
All the Hub-Bub with him being in Hong Kong, and then staying in Hong Kong=
a bit too long suggests that his tradecraft is remarkably poor.
He could have easily just sent the documents by E-Mail, from the airport i=
n Hawaii, or even from his place of work, and there would be virtually no a=
y to trace any of it to him. Indeed, because Hawaii is such a massive tour=
ist destination, the Guardian could have flown in to Hawaii, done several d=
ays of interviews at one of the hotels at Waikiki Beach and then sat on the=
interviews and leaks and not link any of it to Snowden. These documents sp=
eak for themselves, Snowden did not need to appear on camera for any of it =
(at least not initially). In fact, Mr. Snowden could have given the Guardia=
n a video interview and a few thousand documents and the Guardian could hav=
e leaked out a few documents per week, and then after a few months posted t=
he video interview, but the video interview was just utterly foolish for Sn=
owden to do.=20
The very slow "dripping" of classified documents in this case is dramatica=
lly more intense politically then hundreds of documents. The "slow leak" of=
two or three documents per week from an unknown source would have the poli=
ticians in a tailspin, and there would be political pandaemonium as the po=
litical confects intricate lies to save their own asses. The document that =
lists all of the politicians who were intricately involved would need to b=
e the first documents, along with maybe 10-12 other documents that support =
the first document. Then a week later, more document that broaden the sco=
pe of the topic and which implicates additional political creatures, all do=
vetailing into the first group of documents. But, there was zero reason for=
Snowden to reveal himself to the Guardian, and certainly no reason for him=
to have a video interview (at least not for a while).=20
He also would have done better to fly to Los Angles, and do the interviews=
there and to handle the initial contact THERE, and not in bloody Hong Kong=
.
He also need to have a rock solid escape plan in place well before even th=
e first leak, but he does not appear to have considered this very well. In =
order to gain Asylum, he actually needed to be on foreign soil, and then se=
ek asylum once he as in that country. But, he is going to need something of=
great value to trade with the country that grants him asylum, like million=
s of classified documents.
At present Snowden is caught in a limbo, and is subject to a kidnapping by=
either U.S. operatives of the allies of the U.S. and Moscow is one of the =
worse places that he could be trying to escape from. He may or may not make=
it to a friendly country ho can grant him asylum, only time will tell, but=
the odds of a successful transit are stacked against him.=20
Justin Ferguson wrote:=20
Doesnt this all hinge on greenland not cooperating with the US, which given=
it still yields some amount of defense to the US seems misguided at best? =
(id est thule AFB is a 'defense area' still which leaves parts of Greenland=
's defense at the whims of the US military)
I mean everyone is speculating this is possible based off of a flight path =
some guy said would be possible because it avoided (some) european and us a=
irspace with a focus on NATO, disregarding Denmarks lingering role in Green=
land and the twits hit the fan when a flight diverted flight paths? Despite=
the same flight having taken the same flight path at the same flight took =
in april long before anyone ever heard of snowden..
Then of course we are supposing that Russia is colluding with one or more s=
outh american countries to export a troublesome spy who has nothing of any =
real value to give them, and puts the guy on a commercial flight? I mean me=
mbers of Duma and the bar association care so little about the guy that the=
y responded to his invitation to his press conference with a "sorry, busy".=
Then of course, we are ignoring that slight Greenland wrinkle and the laug=
hable Canadian wrinkle.
feels like a lot of willful fantasy.
On Jul 12, 2013 3:33 PM, "James M. Atkinson"< jm..._at_tscm.com>wrote:
The first thing to observe is that this flight went to tremendous effort to=
avoid U.S. territory, or airspace over territorial waters. Even if it was =
weather related at th ehighr altitudes of 35,000 to 40,000 feet, the air cu=
rrent were not an issue over Greenland, and Canada, all of which were caref=
ully avoided on the flight.=20
Snowden may or may not have been on the flight (note the "live conference =
with him in Moscow this morning" that suggests that this could have been a =
"ferret flight" to test the U.S. response).
The flight path take by this flight burned more fuel, and the "winds" do n=
ot appear to be at the altitudes this plane as flying at.
The flights merely 2 days prior took the normal path, and it seems the com=
mon path on prior flights is to hug the Coast of Canada and the United Stat=
es for a goodly mount of the flight time, then to sing out over the Bahamas=
and descend into Havana by way of "The Gauntlet" of anti-aircraft artiller=
y and surface to air missiles they have on the North Coast.
-jma
David I. Emery wrote: =20
yOn Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 04:54:08AM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
=20
The flight track is here:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150
The path deviations don't look too significant to me. Could be a common=20
trajectory adjustment due to less than ideal local weather conditions.
=20
=09Try comparing that flight with all the others on the same route
listed on Flight Aware... Jim does have a point here...
=20
--=20
James M. Atkinson. President and Sr. Engineer
"Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3D15178662
Granite Island Group
http://www.tscm.com/
(978) 546-3803 jm..._at_tscm.com
(978) 381-9111
=20
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
"TSCM-L Professionals List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an =
email to tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=20
=20
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
"TSCM-L Professionals List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an =
email to tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=20
=20
--=20
James M. Atkinson. President and Sr. Engineer
"Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3D15178662
Granite Island Group
http://www.tscm.com/
(978) 546-3803 jm..._at_tscm.com
(978) 381-9111
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
"TSCM-L Professionals List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an =
email to tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=20
=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div>Or perhaps he is part of some sort of psy ops. Why is it when <u>=
millions</u> of people all over the world marched against Monsanto not=
too long ago, all of the social networks deleted all posts and tweets abou=
t it and the main stream media also blacked it out? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>But supposedly Snowden is some sort of "whistle blower" and he gets&nb=
sp;wayyyy too much publicity? Something is fishy and I'd figure that i=
ntelligent, experienced investigators like you all would smell th=
at fishy smell..especially the guys here who are familiar with intelligent =
agencies and their brilliant, diabolical "tricks" and "distractions". </div=
>
<div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;"=
><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 3px; border-left-color: blue; border-le=
ft-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;">All the Hub-Bub with him being in=
Hong Kong, and then staying in Hong Kong a bit too long suggests <strong>t=
hat his tradecraft is remarkably poor.</strong></blockquote></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;"=
>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: James M. Atkinson <<a href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com">jm..._at_tscm.c=
om</a>><br>
To: tscm-l2006 <<a href=3D"mailto:tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com">tscm-..._at_g=
ooglegroups.com</a>><br>
Sent: Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:58 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6485} Aeroflot Flight 150<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1_16f361a6-824f-4285-9fb1-84fc40b778ef">
<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">When I =
look at the Snowden affair, there is a major flaw in the way that he =
handled this travel arrangements.<br>
<br>
The flight from Hawaii to Hong Kong was not a bad option as he could becom=
e invisible in that city provided he possessed good trade craft, but one he=
gave the first interview to the Guardian he needed to leave right away, an=
d with no delays. The flight to Russia as a good option, but he needed to b=
e at his final destination before the Guardian ran anything, and actually b=
efore the Guardian broadcast anything back to England, or any draft copies =
of the report were filed.<br>
<br>
If he was really, really sharp, he would have flown from Hawaii to Washing=
ton, DC, held the Guardian interviews in DC (using good tradecraft), then s=
econds after the interview, before the Guardian uploaded or transmitted eve=
n the first word of the article for Snowden to be on a flight to Canada, wi=
th a connecting flight to Cuba or South America. But, Snowden would have ne=
eded to initiated his asylum request(s) well in advance of his Guardi=
an interviews, and certainly well before his bugging out after the Guardian=
interviews.<br>
<br>
If as actually quite foolish for him to provide interviews where he identi=
fied himself while he as still "in transit". <br>
<br>
It would have been a much better option for him to leak a little whi=
le he was still in Hawaii, but to give no interviews. Then in Hong Ko=
ng to leak a few more documents, but to give no interviews, then to fly int=
o France, leak more documents, request asylum and then leave right away, us=
e the Chunnel to get to England, leak more, request asylum from a second gr=
oup of South American countries, then fly to Canada leak more, and then fly=
to Cuba and actually stay in Cuba for a while, and while in Cuba give his =
very first on camera interviews. Or even have the Guardian sit on the=
interviews until he as at his foreign destinations,<br>
<br>
It would have been even wiser for his to actually be on vacation in =
Venezuela , and to do all of the interviews with the Guardian in that=
country.<br>
<br>
All the Hub-Bub with him being in Hong Kong, and then staying in Hong Kong=
a bit too long suggests that his tradecraft is remarkably poor.<br>
<br>
He could have easily just sent the documents by E-Mail, from the airport i=
n Hawaii, or even from his place of work, and there would be virtually no a=
y to trace any of it to him. Indeed, because Hawaii is such a massive=
tourist destination, the Guardian could have flown in to Hawaii, done seve=
ral days of interviews at one of the hotels at Waikiki Beach and then sat o=
n the interviews and leaks and not link any of it to Snowden. These documen=
ts speak for themselves, Snowden did not need to appear on camera for any o=
f it (at least not initially). In fact, Mr. Snowden could have given the Gu=
ardian a video interview and a few thousand documents and the Guardian coul=
d have leaked out a few documents per week, and then after a few months pos=
ted the video interview, but the video interview was just utterly foolish f=
or Snowden to do. <br>
<br>
The very slow "dripping" of classified documents in this case is dramatica=
lly more intense politically then hundreds of documents. The "slow leak" of=
two or three documents per week from an unknown source would have the poli=
ticians in a tailspin, and there would be political pandaemonium as the&nbs=
p; political confects intricate lies to save their own asses. The document =
that lists all of the politicians who were intricately involved would=
need to be the first documents, along with maybe 10-12 other documents tha=
t support the first document. Then a week later, more document that b=
roaden the scope of the topic and which implicates additional politic=
al creatures, all dovetailing into the first group of documents. But, there=
was zero reason for Snowden to reveal himself to the Guardian, and certain=
ly no reason for him to have a video interview (at least not for a while). =
<br>
<br>
He also would have done better to fly to Los Angles, and do the interviews=
there and to handle the initial contact THERE, and not in bloody Hong Kong=
.<br>
<br>
He also need to have a rock solid escape plan in place well before even th=
e first leak, but he does not appear to have considered this very well. In =
order to gain Asylum, he actually needed to be on foreign soil, and then se=
ek asylum once he as in that country. But, he is going to need something of=
great value to trade with the country that grants him asylum, like million=
s of classified documents.<br>
<br>
At present Snowden is caught in a limbo, and is subject to a kidnapping by=
either U.S. operatives of the allies of the U.S. and Moscow is one of the =
worse places that he could be trying to escape from. He may or may not make=
it to a friendly country ho can grant him asylum, only time will tell, but=
the odds of a successful transit are stacked against him. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Justin Ferguson wrote: <blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>Doesnt this all hinge on greenland not cooperating with the US, which =
given it still yields some amount of defense to the US seems misguided at b=
est? (id est thule AFB is a 'defense area' still which leaves parts of Gree=
nland's defense at the whims of the US military)</div>
<div>I mean everyone is speculating this is possible based off of a flight =
path some guy said would be possible because it avoided (some) european and=
us airspace with a focus on NATO, disregarding Denmarks lingering role in =
Greenland and the twits hit the fan when a flight diverted flight paths? De=
spite the same flight having taken the same flight path at the same flight =
took in april long before anyone ever heard of snowden..</div>
<div>Then of course we are supposing that Russia is colluding with one or m=
ore south american countries to export a troublesome spy who has nothing of=
any real value to give them, and puts the guy on a commercial flight? I me=
an members of Duma and the bar association care so little about the guy tha=
t they responded to his invitation to his press conference with a "sorry, b=
usy". Then of course, we are ignoring that slight Greenland wrinkle and the=
laughable Canadian wrinkle.</div>
<div> feels like a lot of willful fantasy.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 12, 2013 3:33 PM, "James M. Atkinson"<=
<a href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com">jm..._at_tscm.com</a>>wrote:<br type=3D"=
attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-le=
ft-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">The first thing to observe is tha=
t this flight went to tremendous effort to avoid U.S. territory, or airspac=
e over territorial waters. Even if it was weather related at th ehighr alti=
tudes of 35,000 to 40,000 feet, the air current were not an issue over Gree=
nland, and Canada, all of which were carefully avoided on the flight. <br>
<br>
Snowden may or may not have been on the flight (note the "live conference =
with him in Moscow this morning" that suggests that this could have been a =
"ferret flight" to test the U.S. response).<br>
<br>
The flight path take by this flight burned more fuel, and the "winds" do n=
ot appear to be at the altitudes this plane as flying at.<br>
<br>
The flights merely 2 days prior took the normal path, and it seems the com=
mon path on prior flights is to hug the Coast of Canada and the United Stat=
es for a goodly mount of the flight time, then to sing out over the Bahamas=
and descend into Havana by way of "The Gauntlet" of anti-aircraft artiller=
y and surface to air missiles they have on the North Coast.<br>
<br>
-jma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
David I. Emery wrote: <blockquote type=3D"cite"><pre>yOn Fri, Jul 12, =
2013 at 04:54:08AM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
</pre><blockquote type=3D"cite"><pre>The flight track is here:
<a href=3D"
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150</a>
The path deviations don't look too significant to me. Could be a common=20
trajectory adjustment due to less than ideal local weather conditions.
</pre></blockquote><pre>=09Try comparing that flight with all the other=
s on the same route
listed on Flight Aware... Jim does have a point here...
</pre></blockquote><br>
<pre cols=3D"80">--=20
James M. Atkinson. President and Sr. Engineer
"Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
<a href=3D"
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3D15178662" target=3D"_b=
lank">
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3D15178662</a>
Granite Island Group <a href=3D"
http://www.tscm.com/" target=3D"_b=
lank">
http://www.tscm.com/</a>
<a value=3D"+19785463803">(978) 546-3803</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:jm..._at_tscm.com">jm..._at_tscm.com</a>
<a value=3D"+19783819111">(978) 381-9111</a>
</pre></div>
-- <br>
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t" target=3D"_blank">
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<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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legroups.com">tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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<br>
</blockquote><br>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"80">--=20
James M. Atkinson. President and Sr. Engineer
"Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/=
view?id=3D15178662" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?=
id=3D15178662</a>
Granite Island Group <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"ht=
tp://www.tscm.com/" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.tscm.com/</a>
(978) 546-3803 <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D=
"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com">jm..._at_tscm.com</a>
(978) 381-9111
</pre></div>
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Received on Sat Mar 02 2024 - 00:57:25 CST