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<4FB6DEEA.30103_at_tscm.com>
<SNT107-W5277E4B846000AB6225A7CBC1F0_at_phx.gbl>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 22:57:46 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPKVt5JfVbk17VexavLw_HGym94ixELwF3a2r4zJxvMKu0JkbA_at_mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6158} China mobile
From: Ali-Reza Anghaie <a..._at_packetknife.com>
To: tscm-l2006_at_googlegroups.com
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--00248c7119fd658ff504c05ad5a3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Really though - we can complain and tell people but the situations are too
far gone and integrated to undo per se. Likewise the network of espionage,
back room deals, bankers, etc. have been equivalently hostile to
"transparency" for many more decades than fiber was laid.
I'm wondering why people don't get better educated on just flat-out
competing. Increasingly "competing" is about b*tching about who is playing
unfairly. I'm not sure that's a winning line of thought..
How do we get THAT message across? -Ali
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Its from Onion <areda..._at_msn.com>wrote:
> Yep, and now they are coming in the front door. If you think that
> yellow is meek, then the verse, '...the meek will inherent the earth...'
> just might hit home.
> Just saying.
>
> BTW, congrats on kicking their asses! Can you file a counter suit? Be
> nice to recoup some expenses...
>
> -O
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 19:44:42 -0400
> From: jm..._at_tscm.com
> To: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6155} China mobile
>
> I have to tell people this but China has has backdoors in our fiber optics
> infrastructures for years, and have massively elaborate tie-in facilities
> in the United States and abroad.
>
> -jma
>
>
>
>
> Its from Onion wrote:
>
> WASHINGTON -- Concerned about possible cyber-spying, U.S. national
> security officials are debating whether to take the unprecedented step of
> recommending that a Chinese government-owned mobile phone giant be denied a
> license to offer international service to American customers.
>
> China Mobile, the world's largest mobile provider, applied in October for
> a license from the Federal Communications Commission to provide service
> between China and the United States and to build facilities on American
> soil.
>
> Officials from the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the
> Justice Department's national security division are concerned that the move
> would give the company access to physical infrastructure and Internet
> traffic that might allow China to spy more easily on the U.S. government
> and steal intellectual property from American companies, according to
> people familiar with the process who declined to be identified because the
> deliberations are secret.
>
> Those officials, known collectively as "Team Telecom," review FCC
> applications by foreign-owned companies. They could advise the FCC not to
> issue the license, but may instead demand a signed agreement designed to
> satisfy security concerns, the people said.
>
> The review is being led by the Justice Department, which declined to
> comment, as did the FBI and DHS.
>
> A move to block the license could provoke a lawsuit by China Mobile,
> officials said. But lately, the U.S. government's focus on cyber espionage
> has sharpened considerably.
>
> China Mobile, which has nearly 670 million subscribers, is not applying to
> provide domestic U.S. telephone or Internet service. But traffic from U.S.
> carriers, such as Verizon Communications Inc. or AT&T Inc., could be routed
> to the China-owned network should a license be granted.
>
> "Suddenly, you've got a perfect ability to exfiltrate information out of
> the country," said Scott Aken, a former FBI cyber security investigator.
>
> A U.S. representative for China Mobile, who declined to be quoted by name,
> said the company is cooperating with Team Telecom's inquiries and expects
> to satisfy any concerns through a national security agreement. The firm
> declined to address allegations about Chinese spying.
>
> Team Telecom's review of China Mobile's application is complicated by the
> fact that two other Chinese government-owned firms, China Telecom and China
> Unicom, were granted similar licenses in 2002 and 2003, respectively, well
> before Chinese cyber espionage was viewed as a pressing concern. Both carry
> phone and Internet traffic between the U.S. and China.
>
> In neither case did Team Telecom require a national security agreement
> that specifies, for example, how the company must protect U.S. classified
> information that could traverse its network.
>
> In recent years, Team Telecom has required foreign-owned firms to sign
> extremely detailed agreements.
>
> One signed in September by Level 3 Communications, a Broomfield, Colo.,
> carrier, requires the company to provide the manufacturer name and model
> number of all equipment relating to the undersea cables used to carry
> traffic to and from the United States. According to the FCC, 43.5 percent
> of the company is indirectly owned by foreign interests.
>
> U.S. officials in recent months have warned repeatedly that cyber
> espionage, in some cases authorized at the highest levels of the Chinese
> government, has become a grave threat to U.S. economic and national
> security.
>
> Tens of billions of dollars in U.S. intellectual property has been stolen,
> much of it through hacking originating in China, U.S. intelligence
> officials have said. In addition, China has obtained national defense
> information, the officials have said.
>
> On April 8, 2010, China Telecom, China's largest fixed-line telephone
> company, rerouted 15 percent of the world's Internet's traffic through
> Chinese servers for 18 minutes, according to the U.S.-China Economic and
> Security Review Commission.
>
> China Telecom denied hijacking Internet traffic, but it did not explain
> how erroneous instructions were issued in a global Internet routing system
> based largely on trust.
>
> In February 2011, the U.S. government blocked a deal by another Chinese
> telecom company, Huawei Technologies, to purchase 3Leaf Systems, an
> insolvent technology firm based in Santa Clara, Calif. Huawei is privately
> owned, but American officials alleged that it has ties to the Chinese
> military.
>
> Last month, Australia barred Huawei from bidding for work on its national
> broadband network because of security concerns. Also last month, Symantec
> Corp. unwound its joint venture with Huawei, reportedly over concerns that
> the U.S. government would stop sharing information with Symantec.
>
> The House intelligence committee is investigating the role of Chinese
> telecommunications companies in espionage, with a focus on Huawei and ZTE
> Corp., which makes switches, routers and other products.
>
> Sean McGurk, a former senior DHS cyber security official, said China
> Mobile's entrance into the U.S. market "would pose a concern to most
> people. We're not really sure, not only where the information is flowing,
> but what potentially is being left behind."
>
> (c)2012 the Los Angeles Times
>
> Visit the Los Angeles Times at www.latimes.com
>
> Distributed by MCT Information Services
>
>
> --
> James M. Atkinson
> President, Scientist and Sr. Engineer
> "Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
> Granite Island Groupjmatk_at_tscm.comhttp://www.tscm.com/(978) 546-3803
>
>
--00248c7119fd658ff504c05ad5a3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<font face=3D"verdana,sans-serif">Really though - we can complain and tell =
people but the situations are too far gone and integrated to undo per se. L=
ikewise the network of espionage, back room deals, bankers, etc. have been =
equivalently hostile to "transparency" for many more decades than=
fiber was laid.</font><div>
<font face=3D"verdana,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"verda=
na,sans-serif">I'm wondering why people don't get better educated o=
n just flat-out competing. Increasingly "competing" is about b*tc=
hing about who is playing unfairly. I'm not sure that's a winning l=
ine of thought..</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"verdana,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"=
verdana,sans-serif">How do we get THAT message across? -Ali</font></div><di=
v><font face=3D"verdana,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Its from Onion <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:areda..._at_msn.com" target=3D"_blank">areda..._at_msn.com</a>><=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3">Yep, and now they are comin=
g in the front door. =A0If you think that yellow is meek, then the verse, &=
#39;...the meek will=A0inherent=A0the earth...' just might hit home.</f=
ont></font><div>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3">Just saying.</font></font><=
/div><div><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3"><br></font></font=
></div><div><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3">BTW, congrats o=
n kicking their asses! =A0Can you file a counter suit? =A0Be nice to=A0</fo=
nt></font><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">recoup some=A0expenses.=
..=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3"><br></font></font></di=
v><div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">-O</font></div><div><br><d=
iv><div></div><hr>Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 19:44:42 -0400<br>From: <a href=3D=
"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com" target=3D"_blank">jm..._at_tscm.com</a><br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">tscm-...=
_at_googlegroups.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {6155} China mobile<br><br>
I have to tell people this but China has has backdoors in our fiber
optics infrastructures for years, and have massively elaborate tie-in
facilities in the United States and abroad.<br>
<br>
-jma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Its from Onion wrote:
<blockquote>
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
WASHINGTON
-- Concerned about possible cyber-spying, U.S. national security
officials are debating whether to take the unprecedented step of
recommending that a Chinese government-owned mobile phone giant be
denied a license to offer international service to American customers.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
China
Mobile, the world's largest mobile provider, applied in October for a
license from the Federal Communications Commission to provide service
between China and the United States and to build facilities on American
soil.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Officials
from the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the Justice
Department's national security division are concerned that the move
would give the company access to physical infrastructure and Internet
traffic that might allow China to spy more easily on the U.S.
government and steal intellectual property from American companies,
according to people familiar with the process who declined to be
identified because the deliberations are secret.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Those
officials, known collectively as "Team Telecom," review FCC
applications by foreign-owned companies. They could advise the FCC not
to issue the license, but may instead demand a signed agreement
designed to satisfy security concerns, the people said.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
The
review is being led by the Justice Department, which declined to
comment, as did the FBI and DHS.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
A
move to block the license could provoke a lawsuit by China Mobile,
officials said. But lately, the U.S. government's focus on cyber
espionage has sharpened considerably.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
China
Mobile, which has nearly 670 million subscribers, is not applying to
provide domestic U.S. telephone or Internet service. But traffic from
U.S. carriers, such as Verizon Communications Inc. or AT&T Inc.,
could be routed to the China-owned network should a license be granted.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
"Suddenly,
you've got a perfect ability to exfiltrate information out of the
country," said Scott Aken, a former FBI cyber security investigator.</=
p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
A
U.S. representative for China Mobile, who declined to be quoted by
name, said the company is cooperating with Team Telecom's inquiries and
expects to satisfy any concerns through a national security agreement.
The firm declined to address allegations about Chinese spying.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Team
Telecom's review of China Mobile's application is complicated by th=
e
fact that two other Chinese government-owned firms, China Telecom and
China Unicom, were granted similar licenses in 2002 and 2003,
respectively, well before Chinese cyber espionage was viewed as a
pressing concern. Both carry phone and Internet traffic between the
U.S. and China.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
In
neither case did Team Telecom require a national security agreement
that specifies, for example, how the company must protect U.S.
classified information that could traverse its network.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
In
recent years, Team Telecom has required foreign-owned firms to sign
extremely detailed agreements.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
One
signed in September by Level 3 Communications, a Broomfield, Colo.,
carrier, requires the company to provide the manufacturer name and
model number of all equipment relating to the undersea cables used to
carry traffic to and from the United States. According to the FCC, 43.5
percent of the company is indirectly owned by foreign interests.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
U.S.
officials in recent months have warned repeatedly that cyber espionage,
in some cases authorized at the highest levels of the Chinese
government, has become a grave threat to U.S. economic and national
security.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Tens
of billions of dollars in U.S. intellectual property has been stolen,
much of it through hacking originating in China, U.S. intelligence
officials have said. In addition, China has obtained national defense
information, the officials have said.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
On
April 8, 2010, China Telecom, China's largest fixed-line telephone
company, rerouted 15 percent of the world's Internet's traffic thro=
ugh
Chinese servers for 18 minutes, according to the U.S.-China Economic
and Security Review Commission.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
China
Telecom denied hijacking Internet traffic, but it did not explain how
erroneous instructions were issued in a global Internet routing system
based largely on trust.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
In
February 2011, the U.S. government blocked a deal by another Chinese
telecom company, Huawei Technologies, to purchase 3Leaf Systems, an
insolvent technology firm based in Santa Clara, Calif. Huawei is
privately owned, but American officials alleged that it has ties to the
Chinese military.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Last
month, Australia barred Huawei from bidding for work on its national
broadband network because of security concerns. Also last month,
Symantec Corp. unwound its joint venture with Huawei, reportedly over
concerns that the U.S. government would stop sharing information with
Symantec.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
The
House intelligence committee is investigating the role of Chinese
telecommunications companies in espionage, with a focus on Huawei and
ZTE Corp., which makes switches, routers and other products.</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
6,56);outline-color:-moz-use-text-color;margin-bottom:1em;font-family:Verda=
na,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;border:0px none">
Sean
McGurk, a former senior DHS cyber security official, said China
Mobile's entrance into the U.S. market "would pose a concern to mo=
st
people. We're not really sure, not only where the information is
flowing, but what potentially is being left behind."</p>
<p style=3D"list-style-position:outside;vertical-align:top;line-height:18=
px;outline-style:none;list-style-type:none;outline-width:0px;color:rgb(56,5=
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Visit
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http://www.latimes.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">www.latimes.com</a></p>
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<br>
<pre>--=20
James M. Atkinson
President, Scientist and Sr. Engineer
"Leonardo da Vinci of Bug Sweeps and Spy Hunting"
Granite Island Group
<a href=3D"mailto:jm..._at_tscm.com" target=3D"_blank">jm..._at_tscm.com</a>
<a href=3D"
http://www.tscm.com/" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.tscm.com/</a>
<a href=3D"tel:%28978%29%20546-3803" value=3D"+19785463803" target=3D"_blan=
k">(978) 546-3803</a></pre></font></span></div></div> =09=09 =09 =09=09 =
</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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Received on Sat Mar 02 2024 - 00:57:28 CST