UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 1 Alfred's Odd Ode #121 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 07:05:39 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:44:04 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #121 Apology to MW #121 (For April 1, 1997) I=92m asked my philosophy as regards special ED. Why would I teach where others=92d rather be dead? Is it my flaw; do I need a good reason? Am I dripping with sympathy, is it bleeding heart season? The reasons are many, but the first in my mind Is a need for a job to the positive confined. A career as a soldier for twenty-five years, Was a time of strained ethics =96 even honorably steered. I need to wake up with an unclouded mind. I need to give back all the bounty I=92ve mined. I need to contribute to positive endeavor, So, I=92ll work in a place that should make our kids clever. My ethics now make me respect individuals. Education has made me alarmed, and now critical. I think that concern with the Learning Disabled Would empty our prisons; make culture more able. Then one must consider genetics, et. al. Even well mapped, understood not at all. We reach for the stars with our sharp hand extended, But the dull hand supports with a force not pretended. Consider the scientist, ensconced on his hill. His mind in the clouds, his money a thrill. . . But his home is contrived, food is grown, water heated By the least of our humankind, disrespected =96 poorly treated. The Learning Disabled *disappear* in careless magic. They=92re leaving their schools as soon as they can, the effect is mostly tragic. They take leave, humiliation still fresh in their minds; Dispossessed, and abandoned, they are lured by street crime. They turn to street crime because they don=92t have the tools. And tools are what they pick up in good schools. Bad schools assess, categorize =96 affix a sad label. They ridicule, and humiliate a child from its cradle. Our society is _dumb_, and obscenely short sighted. We don=92t spend ED money, so our culture is blighted.=20 Adult=92s in the classroom are what has been needed. Confluence -- the path, then our fields would be seeded. In a class full by 30 =96 then you teach in big teams. With a six to one fraction? Teaching=92s a dream! The team individuals specialize, and overlap. The individual kid excels =96 AND THAT=92S A FACT! In twenty years we=92d be finding, population declining In our prisons, due to this cultural refining. A truly educated society, replete with cool sobriety Is the ending; is a payoff, the result of new inquiry. As a teacher my aim is to live without blame In a culture supported by me, without shame! A culture inclusive, diverse, and conversant; A culture _I=92m_ helping to live in new concert!=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com We=92ll, you _asked_, and in the asking, you=92ll find no fool _this_ April! It is, in fact, the beginning of the new year! Check your history on the _facts_ of April Fools Day! --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for validating the ethics of individual thought.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 1 PROJECT-1947 - Contactees and Abductees in From: Robert <Robert.Bartholomew@JCU.EDU.AU> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:20:24 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:37:07 -0500 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Contactees and Abductees in This messages doesn't relate specifically to Project 1947, but: Would anyone know how I I might go about contacting abductees or contactees in the U.S. in the state of Indiana or nearby states (i.e., Ohio, Illinois, Iowa) for their possible involvement in a sensitive, confidential study of their claimed experiences. Any advice would be appreciated. Robert E. Bartholomew Department of Psychology and Sociology James Cook University Townsville 4811 Queensland, Australia Tel: (077) 75-1119
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:25:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:25:49 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:10:46 -0500 (EST) > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >P.T. Barnum has been quoted as saying that "one is born every minute", >and I think he was being too conservative. I joined "UFO Update" >because I grew tired of wading through the nonsense that some of the >other "lists" seem to foster. > >What in Gods name is happening to people who are supposed to be > >intelligent people??? > Being intelligent does not necessarily mean that you have >"common sense", which tends to be more of a problem (IMHO). Hello all - I've really enjoyed receiving this list. Great news and educated opinions - congratulations to the sponsor! Wanted to introduce myself - I'm new to all this (I refer to it as the Vast Subject) since September, but I have devoted at least 20% daily RAM consumption and CPU cycles to learning, reading, following the news, and other forms of self-education. Just attended my first conference last weekend in Gulf Breeze - lapped it up like a cat stealing cream. It was helpful to get a feel for the people whose works I had been reading so intensely. I really appreciate reading everyone's posts to the list - don't have any new material to add yet, but give me time - I will! Wanted to state, in regards to the Heaven's Gate group, that each of them was an individual with free will. They were not trapped in a prisoner of war camp where they were forced into mandatory brainwashing. They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being - thou shalt not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the void! If critics have to blame someone for their preposterous beliefs, those who promulgate talk of disasters or supposed great tidings with no discernable basis in fact, how about leveling the shotgun at the Bible, Nostradamus, and H.G. Wells? Children in this country, let alone the rest of the world, are starved, beaten, abused, and killed every day. Reasoning adults who have a choice and choose to throw their lives away aren't worth one more stroke of my keyboard, or, IMHO, anyone else's. Melanie Mecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Contactees and Abductees in From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:04:21 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:18:48 -0500 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Contactees and Abductees in > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:20:24 +1000 > From: Robert <Robert.Bartholomew@JCU.EDU.AU> > Subject: Re: Contacting Contactees and Abductees in Indiana > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > This messages doesn't relate specifically to Project 1947, but: > > Would anyone know how I I might go about contacting abductees or contactees > in the U.S. in the state of Indiana or nearby states (i.e., Ohio, Illinois, > Iowa) for their possible involvement in a sensitive, confidential study of > their claimed experiences. > Any advice would be appreciated. > Robert E. Bartholomew > Department of Psychology and Sociology > James Cook University > Townsville 4811 > Queensland, Australia > Tel: (077) 75-1119 Well, one place that <might> get you started is Mid-Ohio Research Associates (MORA). Their web page is at: http://users1.ee.net/pmason/mora_index.html If they don't know themselves, maybe they can at least point you at other more relevant local organizations and/or resources. -Brian Cuthbertson Austin, TX
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:54:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:22:57 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' > ...Wanted to state, in regards to the Heaven's Gate group, that each > of them was an individual with free will. They were not trapped in a > prisoner of war camp where they were forced into mandatory > brainwashing. They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being > - thou shalt not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the > void! > Melanie Mecca Here here!! Where does this screwy notion come from, anyway, that we are to deny the very "human-ness" of our existence on this planet? We'll "graduate" soon enough, I'm afraid. There's no need to skip a grade... Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:06 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:29:49 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' I believe Melanie Mecca misunderstands the HeavensGate mentality when she said... >They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being - thou shalt >not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the void! They were not, as I understand it, seeking oblivion or a way to end matters here and now ... they really believed this was the transitional moment they had planned and hoped for...to continue their existence in the service of higher beings. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:03 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:26:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale Michael Hessemann pleads... >It's time for an objective re-investigation of the Meier case - not by >individuals like Korff (who already in 1981, when he was still a schoolboy, >called the Meier case "the most infamous hoax in ufology") or Burgin (who was >never willing even to listen to Meier and his witnesses), but by >scientists and experienced researchers. And what if the new 'objective' investigator comes to similar conclusions about the nature of the Meier affair? Will Hessemann reject him or her also? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Yester-years lads todays 'experts'? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 04:45:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:45:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Yester-years lads todays 'experts'? > From: RobIrving@aol.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:42:45 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Yester-years lads todays 'experts'? > Re: > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:02:07 +0000 > > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Yester-years lads todays 'experts'? > > I've never claimed to be ab 'expert' in anything and the Jane Morrison > > case is not a fake as far as I'm concerned. I did have her visit a real > > doctor, a man with a PhD, a psychologist of excellent standing, and he > > gave her a clean bill of health. I rest my case. > Philip, > Without wishing to interrupt such an entertaining spat, I'm interested > to know why, in your opinion, a psychologist's positive assessment > of someone's mental health represents proof that their story is true. > Rob Irving Dear Rob, I don't. It only means that they were not suffering from any known psychologial disorder at the time. My aim with this was to point out that the lady in question had visited a real, bona fide PhD and not a fake one like Henry. I'm sorry if I confused you with this. ATB. Philip. > UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net > Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 > > An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of > UFO Related Phenomena > > UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at > http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates > > MUFON Ontario's Home Page: > http://auraland.com/mufon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 CBS covers AZ sightings From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:01:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:22:08 -0500 Subject: CBS covers AZ sightings CBS COVERS ARIZONA SIGHTINGS I just received a call from the CBS network producing the Dan Rather News on CBS tonight out of Washington DC. A courier picked up my video copy of the lights seen over Awahtukee, Arizona on March 13th. Tune in to Dan Rather tonight to see this footage and a report on the Arizona mass sightings. Strange Universe did an excellent job last night on covering the witnesses reports and videos that we assembled in Village Labs. Many thanks to Jim Dilettoso for sharing his facilities for this segment. Bill Hamilton Ass't State Dir MUFON AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: On A Lighter Note From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:22:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:57:23 -0500 Subject: Re: On A Lighter Note To All My previous note did not include the address of the page that I meant to send to you all. The URL is: http://members.aol.com/casmurf000/greys.htm This page is heavy on graphics but well worth the look. I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth Sean http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 AUFORA: People's 'March' at Area 51 From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 13:45:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 02:01:27 -0500 Subject: AUFORA: People's 'March' at Area 51 AUFORA News Update Tuesday, April 1st, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ ________________________ PEOPLE'S MARCH AT AREA 51 IN 1998 parts from Norio Hayakawa - NorioA51S4@aol.com June 6th, 1998 will hold the 'People's March at Area 51'. This event, obviously taking place just outside the restricted area at Groom Lake, is an attempt to "promote true patriotism and a show of true love for this once God-fearing nation". Contrary to the name, no 'march' will take place. "A thousand men are not going to march past the warning signs and on to the Guard Shack area and on to the Groom Lake facility". Instead, there will be live music and speakers to satisfy the expected 500 member crowd. Organizers fully expect some anxiety from local authorities and the military, and thus have informed them well in advance of the event. AUFORA is not too sure what to think about this event. It almost seems counterproductive. A small gathering of 'believers' outside Area 51 shouting about government conspiracy may not be a good image to project. The organizers themselves seem somewhat distracted, as they incessantly rant about the "off-tangent", "unpatriotic", "paranoid", "less informed" morons who look skeptically on the event. Anyways, be wary. For more info, write to: GroomWatch@aol.com or visit: http://home.aol.com/GroomWatch __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: 'Mr. Mantle's "Humour"' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 06:43:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:49:24 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Mr. Mantle's "Humour"' > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:58:24 -0500 > From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> > Subject: Mr. Mantle's "Humour" > To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> > I was humbled to hear that Mr. Mantle "humoured" me, as he states in his > response. > His comments concerning the involvement of a "Psychologist" in Ms. Jane > Morrison's case, raise more questions, than answering the points raised. > In reciprocating Mr. Mantle's "humour", perhaps I should add that Ms. > Morrison's residence was put under surveillance, due to the comments she > had made, when she broke down crying, failing to answer pointed questions. > The only frequent visitor to Ms. Morrison's house, in the space of two > weeks when I commissioned our colleagues, was not any "alien", but Mr. > Mantle himself - who popped in and out often, envigouring his relation > further, more so in unsocial hours. > In reproducing Mr. mantle's letter, I left one line deliberately out, which > I now produce with explanation of the nature of its contents; > "PS: I think I left my video in your car so I'll collect it when I see you > next". > I guess this was yet another phase of Mr. Mantle's humour. The video > concerned was obtained, without Mr. Harry Harris' knowledge from Mr. > Harris' investigation into another well-known "abduction" case. > Since I was in touch with Mr. Harris at that time, I was asked by Mr. > Mantle to review this video, and see whether I could render any opinion to > be used in criticising Mr. Harris' investigations in any manner possible - > to put it mildly. Being aware of Mr. Mantle's humourous approach I provided > Mr. Mantle with no information. It was obvious from the outset that Mr. > Mantle was more interested in other matters rather than an objective > research - to promote self-steam. > Furthering Mr. Mantle's humourous approach, I should perhaps also add that > at that time Mr. Mantle was in the employment of a firm, and a union > representative within that firm. Utilising his position, he often used to > use firm's fax and telephone lines for his private interest - UFOs. > Evidence to that effect, does exist in our files, and this matter at that > time was brought to the firm's management attention, pointing the fact that > such use of company facilities could be legally questionable in the sense > that the company would be claiming incurred costs, as company expenditure, > whilst balancing the annual expenditure and the taxes. > It is precisely this type of "humour" which perpetuates scars in the > community. Gullible members of public, desperate for help from ordeals of > "alien" nature, become unwitting guinea-pigs for unqualified referees - > which in turn fill pages of pulp - and attract yet more gullible audiences. > Armen Victorian Dear Henry, Let us see the letters you refer to. Let us see the results of your surveilence. Let us see the video tape you refer to. Let us see your PhD. Let us see all those juicy newspaper stories about you. As for me using my companies telephone and fax system I still do. It goes with the job. I also use the photocopier on occasion. All of this with the permission of my boss whose comments about your contact with him are unprintable here. Unlike you Henry I have never claimed to be something I am not. I have worked at the same company for 18 years on the shopfloor manufacturing printing plates. During that time I have been a Father Of The Chapel with the NGA and now the GPMU. A union steward in other words. I have never claimed to have a PhD unlike yourself. In short Henry, your comments above hold about as much credance as your false PhD. Shall we alsao look into your claims that you could divert National Health funding into abduction research ? And what about the nice little veiled threat you left on my answering machine, a copy of which I might still have lying around somewhere. This is all a great shame Henry as I found you to be a very likeable man with a great sense of humour even if you did tell a few great porkies every now and then. Stick with the Birdsalls Henry, you deserve each other. ATB. PM.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re UpDate: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 01:22:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 02:11:23 -0500 Subject: Re UpDate: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Date: 31 Mar 97 18:38:08 EST >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Unfortunately "the two" from Berlin, J.Koch and J.Kyborg, who claim (in their >book "Die Antwort des Orion"/"Orion answers", Munchen 1998) they communicated >with extraterrestrials from Orion by faking crop circles in England for three >summers, tried to get publicity by another unbiased attack against serious >UFO research. Dear Michael, your claims concerning 'serious UFO research' are ridiculous. It should be clear by now (at last!!!!!) that Meier is nothing else than a fraud - (as he always has been); the same sort of people believing in a Hale-Bopp Compagnion or Rael or UMMO, or whatever. Meier & Co have nothing to do with serious UFO research whatsoever and we should accept this very finale of a Guru. Because that's all he is - a Guru, misleading other people...oh, I'm sick of it! Regarding 'the two'...at least they HAVE DONE SOME SERIOUS RESEARCH... apart from being IRI-members, their book about crop-circles isn't what you say it is (you mean: CRAP! I mean: NO, SIR!); in fact, it's quite amazing and astonishing. Michael: why don't you just go out to New Mexico and find the REAL crash-site of Santilli's Saucer and wounded Aliens? Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults From: + UFO-ER + <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:29:18 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 02:14:03 -0500 Subject: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults At 10:25 AM 4/1/97 -0500, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:25:51 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >Wanted to state, in regards to the Heaven's Gate group, that each of >them was an individual with free will. They were not trapped in a >prisoner of war camp where they were forced into mandatory brainwashing. >They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being - thou shalt >not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the void! If critics >have to blame someone for their preposterous beliefs, those who >promulgate talk of disasters or supposed great tidings with no >discernable basis in fact, how about leveling the shotgun at the Bible, >Nostradamus, and H.G. Wells? Children in this country, let alone the >rest of the world, are starved, beaten, abused, and killed every day. >Reasoning adults who have a choice and choose to throw their lives away >aren't worth one more stroke of my keyboard, or, IMHO, anyone >else's. >Melanie Mecca Excellent observations, Melanie!!! I, too, am new to this forum and, so far, I LIKE what I see! (Never minds, Scotty, beam me up later.) As you indicated, everyone is trying to point fingers in many directions but we need to examine the many causes related to this event. I call it an "event" because I can't call it a "tragedy", at least not from my personal experience. Perhaps it was a "tragedy" for the families of these individuals but the cult members seemed quite content with their choices so it wasn't a "tragedy" for them. I began studying this cult in 1994 and interviewed them by phone and in person on many occasions in Texas and in Arkansas. The reason I became so interested in this group was because their philosophies SEEMED to reflect many of the new paradigms I'd experienced as a result of my research into all phenomena. So much of what they were saying sounded a lot like what I'd begun to understand through my studies and I HAD to learn more about them. I had reached similar conclusions about our existence as this cult propounded but I had come from a more scientific direction while Applewhite claimed a more "etherial", esoteric source. According to the correlations I found (quite unexpectedly!) researching five categories of phenomena; CEs (Close Encounters), NDEs (Near Death Experiences), religious experiences, OBEs (Out of Body Experiences) and general paranormal experiences, the common denominator is...the OBE or references to humans as "spirit bodies" in physical bodies. I won't go into depth because I'm writing two books about this study and it gets deeper and deeper. I approached these phenomena from a skeptics point of view never expecting to become forever "changed" by what I learned. To understand why the 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult killed themselves, you must put aside many of the paradigms and belief systems you have been raised with all your life. If not impossible for most people, it is very difficult for many and only a few - without believing exactly like those in the cult- can even begin to fathom how they made the decisions they made. While I do not condone the taking of one's own life or any life, I can understand, to a certain extent, why these 39 people elected to end their lives. Most of us have been taught since birth by our families, our teachers, our religions, our law makers and our cultures to believe that we "have" souls that go somewhere when we die. Some peoples of the world believe these "souls" live forever and "reincarnate" to live many lives in many bodies. Every culture has its view of life, death and the hereafter. When many philosophies are combined from around the world, and BELIEVED, new paradigms are created. If shared with others, these new paradigms, BELIEVED, form mini-cultures or societies and are sometimes called "cults". According to this definition, all religions are cults although most religions deny the cult aspect of their structure. The Heaven's Gate cult combined many philosophies from around the world as well as some of the "New Age" and UFO information to form new paradigms and belief systems. If "aliens" are telling us we are "containers" (refer to Lazar's claims), if almost all the holy books of the world tell us we are "souls" in bodies, if people claim to have left their bodies and returned (NDEs, OBEs), if apparitions of deceased individuals (ghosts) are seen by credible witnesses, this would mean we are MORE than the bodies we inhabit. Applewhite believed this information literally and thus taught his followers the same. Applewhite and his followers BELIEVED what they had learned from the many philosophies floating around and rejected what they had been TAUGHT by their families, institutions, religions and governments. They essentially rejected old belief systems to accept new paradigms. If you literally believed you were NOT the body you inhabit and believed you were an eternal spirit being, if you REALLY BELIEVED these philosophies, what would prevent you from leaving this plane of existence? Or, put another way, if it is true that we ARE spirit beings in these "Earthsuits", what KEEPS us IN these bodies? Applewhite and his followers did not have the same "restraints" most of us have that keep us from killing ourselves. They had "overcome" many human belief systems and adopted paradigms they believed came from beings on a higher plane of existence. Although their beliefs seem crazy to us, it made perfect, logical sense to Applewhite and his followers. Therefore, they did not view their acts as "suicidal". They BELIEVED they were releasing their spirits from the "vehicles" (their bodies) used to explore this plane of existence. Apparantly Applewhite got tired of waiting for his "higher beings" to come down and pick him up so he decided to leave his "Earthsuit" behind and go join them on their "ships"... unfortunately, he took a few of his friends with him. Now, people ask me, "What does this have to do with UFOs and UFOlogy?" Well, if "aliens" (those critters reported to be IN those UFOs) are going around telling people they are "more than flesh and bone" or that humans are "spirit beings" in "containers", then it is possible they are directly or indirectly affecting our belief systems. The Heaven's Gate Cult is a prime example of what can happen when one culture interacts with another culture - which in this case- may be a more advanced, "alien" culture interacting with the less advanced, human culture. If this is what's happening, then some form of social engineering is taking place whether deliberate or accidental and we need to pay CLOSE ATTENTION to these events. If these 39 people (there are more around the world) BELIEVED their philosophies strong enough to reject all reasons for living (remaining in their bodies) and voluntarily ended their lives on this plane of existence, then we must examine ALL causes related to this drastic and deadly belief system. If these 39 can do this so happily and willingly, what affects will these belief systems have on OTHERS who reach similar conclusions? How might beings from other planets or dimensions be affecting our cultures, our religious paradigms, our belief systems, our lives? When we stop arguing over whether or not UFOs and "aliens" exist, will we finally begin to examine WHY they are here and how HUMAN lives are affected or ...will it be too late? Yellowrose [Amy Hebert] ****************************************************************** + UFO-ER + Emergency room for expanding realities. Information -> E-mail <yelorose@swbell.net> *******************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Dutch UFO Organisations? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:05:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 02:09:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Dutch UFO Organisations? Regarding... >From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Netherlands ufo adds needed >Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:55:33 GMT Raine & Crow asked: >Can any one supply names and addresses of any ufo organisations for >Holland, Netherlands, or email or web site... I've recently updated a list of organisations with web sites, at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/org.htm An addition was a Dutch organisation called Picard UFO Research International, at URL: http://www.pufori.org/ James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Project 1947 - Whitley & Hale Bopp From: Greg Long <greglong@PROAXIS.COM> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:20:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:05:11 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Whitley & Hale Bopp Not 1947 related, but due to the sad state of affairs we are currently in, the following may be of interest. ---- Dear Mr. Strieber, I am writing in regards to the recent mass suicide tragedy in Rancho Santa Fe. I occasionally listen to the Art Bell show, but I am not a regular listener. I have picked up fragmentary conversations you have had with Art Bell on some shows. I have also read most of your UFO books. And I occasionally see you appearing on such shows as Larry King Live. Could you please tell me your position regarding why you supported the Hale-Bopp story? I remember hearing about Hale-Bopp and the purported UFO trailing it or masked by it on Art Bell and during Web surfing. I naturally immediately decided that it was a hoax. I have studied the UFO subject since 1975. I have a library of 200 books; and I have watched hoaxers come and go over these many years. It isn't clear to me why someone with your obvious high intellectual caliber, facility with language, and writing abilities would have supported this hoax. I would think that several phone calls to major observatories and astronomers in this country would have quickly cleared up the matter. Yet, apparently this did not happen. Therefore, I am asking if you could explain to me how you became entangled in the Hale-Bopp hoax. Second, I am asking if you could give me your feelings regarding whether or not you feel that the hoax contributed to an atmosphere that attracted unstable minds to eventually commit suicide. Do you believe that you may have inadvertently or purposely established a mood, conditions, or context for attracting people to consider the actual reality of a UFO following the comet to such an extent--combined with an elaborate belief system--that they would kill themselves? An ancillary question involves your view of whether or not the pepetration of hoaxes such as Hale-Bopp is antithetical to logic, clear reasoning, and science (however limit its reach) in coming to an understanding of the real UFO phenomenon? I look forward to your reply. I note that your title in the graphics that appear under your picture during TV interviews states "UFO Expert." Therefore, I am eager to hear your responses. Sincerely, Greg Long Note. My Web site can be found at http//www.pacificharbor.com/nwmyst ---- From: WStrieber@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:42:02 -0500 (EST) To: greglong@proaxis.com Subject: Re: Position on Hale-Bopp I did not support it. I was neutral toward it, but suggested that if the object was there, we all try meditating at the same time because the visitors seem responsive to this. Also, though, I became suspicious when Dr. Brown said that rolls of film were involved. Professional scopes do not shoot 35mm. So I released the picture he had sent me and Art--as did art--and it was soon proved to be a fraud. I did call telescopes by the way--and was told by Greenwich that they were tracking the object. Later, I discovered that I had talked to a receptionist who was afraid not to claim this lest she lose a discovery for one of their astronomers. She said it without really knowing what was up. Read the HB material on my website http://www.strieber.com for more details. ---- From: WStrieber@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:42:12 -0500 (EST) To: greglong@proaxis.com Subject: Re: Position on Hale-Bopp I do think that the hoax might have contributed to the deaths, and I am very distressed about it. *************************************************************************** Greg Long -- greglong@proaxis.com 503/929-3557 ***************************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Mr Victorian's 'humour' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Apr 97 03:41:49 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:33:53 -0500 Subject: Mr Victorian's 'humour' Re: >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:58:24 -0500 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Mr. Mantle's "Humour" A day too early for early for April Fools. But I was interested in what Armen Victorian, Dr Henry, Henry Azahdadal or whatever nom de ufology he is using, had to say about a case that I was involved in. So many statements get passed over on this list when they really should be challenged, so........ >Ms. Morrison's residence was put under surveillance, due >to the comments she had made, when she broke >down crying, failing to answer pointed questions. >The only frequent visitor to Ms. Morrison's house, in >the space of two weeks when I commissioned >our colleagues, was not any "alien", but Mr. Mantle himself - who popped in and out often, >envigouring his relation further, more so in unsocial hours. Let's unpack that one Henry shall we? What you seem to be saying is that as a result of your involvement with the 'Jane Morrison' case - which as I recall was zilch anyway - your, ahem, 'colleagues' put Ms Morrison's house under surveillance? I don't think so. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to prove it by giving some fact about where she lived which you would only know if your assertion was true. The implication that you have 'colleagues' who you can employ to watch housewives go about their daily business may cause some ufologists to be thrilled. If it *is* true then it smacks of voyeurism, infringement of individual's rights and just plain surveillance. But that's ok is it Henry? Moving swiftly on, you then claim that the only frequent visitor to the Jane's house was Mantle who "popped in and out.....envigouring his relation further, more so in unsocial hours." Now correct me if I'm wrong but to the casual reader this might seem to imply that Mr Mantle was - to put it bluntly - 'having it off' with Jane? Proof, Henry? No, I didn't think so. And then we get to the corker..... >...should perhaps also add that at that time Mr. Mantle >was in the employment of a firm, and a union >representative within that firm. Utilising his position, >he often used to use firm's fax and telephone lines >for his private interest - UFOs. Evidence to that effect, >does exist in our files, and this matter at that >time was brought to the firm's management attention, >pointing the fact that such use of company facilities >could be legally questionable in the sense >that the company would be claiming incurred costs, >as company expenditure, whilst balancing the >annual expenditure and the taxes. C'mon Henry, lighten up! Most of the world's ufology (and indeed many other matters of interest) would soon dry up if people didn't use work time etc for their own use. I do it all the time and I would very much doubt if there was *anyone* on this list who hasn't, in some way, used their employment to further their interests. 'Cept you Henry. I am however pleased that your eagle eyed attention to public responsibilities led you to alert Philip's employers about his outrageous acts. List members, look out, no ufologist is safe now. Use your PC at work to check out the list, make a 'phone call to alert someone about a case while you're at work, stop at your favourite bookshop whilst out on company business. Not any longer. That strange man lurking outside the window could be Henry, or worse, one of his 'colleagues'. His finale... >It is precisely this type of "humour" which >perpetuates scars in the community. Gullible members >of public, desperate for help from ordeals of >"alien" nature, become unwitting guinea-pigs for >unqualified referees - which in turn fill pages of pulp > - and attract yet more gullible audiences. And not because of people who claim to have been someone they aren't, done things they haven't and know things they don't, then? Andy (Off to 'envigour a relationship' and eagerly awaiting Henry's revelations about him)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:13:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:18:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:03 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Michael Hessemann pleads... > >It's time for an objective re-investigation of the Meier case - not by > >individuals like Korff (who already in 1981, when he was still a schoolboy, > >called the Meier case "the most infamous hoax in ufology") or Burgin (who was > >never willing even to listen to Meier and his witnesses), but by > >scientists and experienced researchers. > And what if the new 'objective' investigator comes to similar conclusions > about the nature of the Meier affair? Will Hessemann reject him or her > also? > Bob Rickard - editor > rickard@forteantimes.com Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. To paraphrase Carl Sagan (may he rest in peace): The absence of evidence of an individual's connections in the UFO field to intelligence operations is not the evidence of absence (it may just mean you are not investigating deeply enough). Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: On A Lighter Note From: "Joe Daniels (UFO JOE)" <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 03:18:13 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:00:10 -0500 Subject: Re: On A Lighter Note > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:22:06 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > Subject: On A Lighter Note > To All > My previous note did not include the address of the page that I meant > to send to you all. The URL is: > http://members.aol.com/casmurf000/greys.htm NOTE: This URL does not work. However I tried: http://members.aol.com/casmurf000/grey.htm `------- No "S" Here! And it seemed to work. A few of them made me laugh out loud...or maybe I was just up too late! .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 04:54:54 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:18:32 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:06 -0000 >x-sender: rickard@mail.easynet.co.uk >From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >I believe Melanie Mecca misunderstands the HeavensGate mentality >when she said... > >>They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being - thou shalt >>not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the void! > >They were not, as I understand it, seeking oblivion or a way to end >matters here and now ... they really believed this was the transitional >moment they had planned and hoped for...to continue their existence in >the service of higher beings. My personal belief, as a non-religious person, is that IF some Creator put us here specifically, then it's up to HIM to let us know our stay is over. And I certainly HOPE that the sign is a bit more obvious than a comet flying past at 122 million miles away from Earth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: CBS covers AZ sightings From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:56:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:01:41 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS covers AZ sightings > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:01:17 -0700 > Subject: CBS covers AZ sightings > To: updates@globalserve.net > CBS COVERS ARIZONA SIGHTINGS > I just received a call from the CBS network > producing the Dan Rather News on CBS tonight > out of Washington DC. A courier picked up > my video copy of the lights seen over > Awahtukee, Arizona on March 13th. Tune > in to Dan Rather tonight to see this > footage and a report on the Arizona mass sightings. > Strange Universe did an excellent job > last night on covering the witnesses > reports and videos that we assembled > in Village Labs. Many thanks to > Jim Dilettoso for sharing his facilities > for this segment. > Bill Hamilton > Ass't State Dir > MUFON AZ Bill, Perhaps you could offer some insight as to how CBS decided to give national coverage to this news item. In New York city until the Strange Universe segment aired there was no coverage in the NY Times or Post or elsewhere on TV or radio that I am aware of. However I have been aware of these events for several weeks through this mailing list. I would be interested to hear how the news coverage of this sighting developed and I suspect a few other readers of this list would as well. Thanks in advance. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: AUFORA: People's 'March' at Area 51 From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 08:16:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 13:01:06 -0500 Subject: Re: AUFORA: People's 'March' at Area 51 >Subject: AUFORA: People's March at Area 51 >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 13:45:32 -0700 >From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> >To: "AUFORA News Update" <aufora@spots.ab.ca> >AUFORA News Update >Tuesday, April 1st, 1997 >http://www.aufora.org/ >________________________ >PEOPLE'S MARCH AT AREA 51 IN 1998 > parts from Norio Hayakawa - NorioA51S4@aol.com I have known Norio for a number of years. He is a friendly person, but in order to understand his actions relative to Area 51 and conspiracies, you need to understand that he is advised frequently by his fundamentalist minister and sincerely believes that we are living in apocalyptic times. He has seized on the UFO and alien reports as evidence that the anti-christ has sent his demons into Area 51 to produce the advanced technology of the end times - to help prepare for the final showdown. I am only recounting this not to deride his beliefs, but to enlighten those who see his announcements as to his underlying beliefs and motives. Norio feels he is on a crusade against the forces of darkness. I wish him well as such forces have managed to survive for a long time. Those with fundamentalist beliefs do not accept the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as it does not accord with their Christian beliefs. Norio more readily accepts an extradimensional source as demons can be seen as coming from some other dimension beyond our visible world. I, myself, do not think this thousand man march accomplishes anything and is just a major distraction. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 A bad taste in the mouth From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:30:15 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:16:59 -0500 Subject: A bad taste in the mouth This came my way on Monday evening: >Cult Bought Alien Abduction Insurance >Associated Press > LONDON--The 39 Heaven's Gate cult members who committed suicide >last week had insured themselves against being abducted, impregnated or >killed by aliens, an insurance agent who specializes in unusual policies >said Sunday. > The cult bought a policy Oct. 10 that would pay out $1 million to >each member's beneficiaries, said Simon Burgess, managing director of >Goodfellow Rebecca Ingrams Pearson, an insurance brokerage. > The 39 took their own lives last week at a home on the outskirts of >San Diego, seeking redemption in a spaceship trailing Comet Hale-Bopp. > Burgess told Press Association, the British news agency, that the >group paid $1,000 annually for the coverage. > The brokerage said it has insured 4,000 people against abduction by >aliens. But "there has never been a genuine claim for alien abduction," >Burgess said. Many of you on the list will remember Burgess's last attempt at muddying the waters of ufology, when he and his business associate Joe Tagliarini claimed, falsely, that a successful claim had been made against GRIP's abduction "insurance". It now becomes apparent that there are absolutely no depths to which he will not sink in his quest for publicity. ----- Nothing in this post is necessarily the opinion of John Brown Publishing or Fortean Times. On a bad day, it might not even be mine. ----- "Jinks was an intelligent man. He read and understood the novels of Fanthorpe, Muller and Fane." Karl Ziegfried, "Projection Infinity"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: CBS covers AZ sightings From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Apr 97 08:40:26 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:55:46 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS covers AZ sightings >From: bhamilto@pcshs.com >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:01:17 -0700 >Subject: CBS covers AZ sightings >To: updates@globalserve.net > CBS COVERS ARIZONA SIGHTINGS >I just received a call from the CBS network >producing the Dan Rather News on CBS tonight >out of Washington DC. A courier picked up >my video copy of the lights seen over >Awahtukee, Arizona on March 13th. Tune >in to Dan Rather tonight to see this >footage and a report on the Arizona mass sightings. >Strange Universe did an excellent job >last night on covering the witnesses >reports and videos that we assembled >in Village Labs. Many thanks to >Jim Dilettoso for sharing his facilities >for this segment. >Bill Hamilton >Ass't State Dir >MUFON AZ Musta been an April Fool's joke. At least that's how CBS treated the video, saying that there obviously was another explanation for it, and generally treating the whole thing as a "silly season" story. But would anyone seriously expect Rather and crew to do otherwise??? After all, they have determined to call Heaven's Gate a "UFO cult", just as they call others who question authority "anti-government hate groups". Objective reporting this ain't. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 08:10:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:46:30 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:06 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > I believe Melanie Mecca misunderstands the HeavensGate mentality when she > said... > >They broke a cardinal rule of existence as a human being - thou shalt > >not fling the creator's gift of a body back into the void! > They were not, as I understand it, seeking oblivion or a way to end > matters here and now ... they really believed this was the transitional > moment they had planned and hoped for...to continue their existence in > the service of higher beings. > Bob Rickard - editor Bob, I was not speaking from the point of view of their mentality. I think you're correct about their perspective - I think that perspective is deluded. Look at it from the standpoint of the world's major religions, from the standpoint of learning from near-death experiences, from the standpoint of humans playing out their karma, from the standpoint of "ascension" beliefs, etc.,etc. They were refusing to play the hand they were dealt. Of course we should have sympathy for their allowing themselves to be brainwashed all those years & I do. I'm saying that suicide is not a viable option for our ensouled earthly existences - while most of us would have empathic resonance with a terminal patient in great pain who ended his/her life, it is absolutely not the same to be an instrument of destruction for the body in full health and possession of mental faculties (I suppose it was the latter that was affected by their choice to allow another human being to direct their every move). I would bet they learned that big time in the afterlife review - but this is verifiable only through extraordinary experiences, like near-death states. My mind is always on alert when human beings say that "there is nothing for me here." All of the great spiritual teachers have said that this very world is paradise when a human's spiritual state is clear and strong. Hearing that kind of despair, I know that the person is refusing to deal with pain in the psyche - they come to a standstill in the inner process. God doesn't make mistakes, no human being is intended for the garbage scow (althought they can put themselves there, e.g. serial killers), and we are meant to conform to our divine blueprint as ourselves, living as a divine being in an earthly body. I believe the human spirit is a great and divine energy - that's why I used the harsh terms "they refused." Reducing their stated beliefs down to a simple phrase, I'd call it escapism of the highest order. As for their fear of the "Lucis", they evidently further believed that they could escape the dark forces by leaving their bodies - wrong! The cosmic struggle goes on continuously at all levels throughout the universe. We can evolve and align outselves with the light, but even very great beings, such as Buddha and Jesus, encountered evil. The Heaven's Gate suicides provided us with a stark example of serious errors - limiting beliefs that effectively prevented them from cheerfully working with their life's lessons and "growing where they were planted." Suicide is two steps backwards - it will be balanced in the end, but will involve "rework" on their part. Wasted opportunity. Ok, off the soap box! :) I really appreciate the high quality of information and thought in this list, hope I will have something to contribute in the near future. For those of you who did not attend the Gulf Breeze conference, I took copious notes during the conference and have posted reports on every lecture on the ISUR Rumor Mill ET bulletin board. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Lake Ontario Activity From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:36:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 13:02:33 -0500 Subject: Lake Ontario Activity Good Morning Errol! Our CSETI working group has maintained vigilance on Lake Ontario with only Easter Sunday night off, mainly because of inclement weather. We have had sightings every time, and some extraordinary activity last night, Tuesday, 1st. April. Combined with watching Hale-Bopp behind us, it was an amazing evening. Having listened to my audio tape reporting throughout the evening, we appear to have had around 20 "events." At one point, two of these bright orange objects appeared to be engaged in communication or altercation. They were also taking off from and landing much farther away than previously. This would put them around 40 miles from our observation site. These objects can pretty well only be seen through tbe astronomical binoculars, and not the naked eye. Last week's events were very visible with the naked eye and average binoculars, and were undoubtedly submerging into the lake waters. I will update you when we have more developments.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Heaven's Gate - An Editorial from UNUSUAL RESEARCH From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 11:50:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 13:12:54 -0500 Subject: Heaven's Gate - An Editorial from UNUSUAL RESEARCH From: http://users1.ee.net/pmason/heaven.html HEAVEN'S GATE An Editorial 3-30-97 The recent mass suicide of members of the Heaven's Gate cult in San Diego, California was tragically unnecessary. Media attention has focused on videotaped statements made by the members prior to their mass suicide. In the video they state they will shed their "containers," or physical bodies, and evolve into new bodies which will allow them to join their brethren in a UFO hidden behind comet Hale-Bopp. This plan was part of a highly ritualized, complex belief system perpetuated by Marshall Applewhite. Applewhite, (Do, pronounced Doe) was founder, spiritual leader, and chief spokesman for the movement. Available information suggests that other unorthodox belief systems such as castration, and other ritual ceremonies were also practiced by the group. Even the mass suicide was ritualistically performed by select members over a period of days until all in the compound were dead. The public is horrified, outraged, and frightened by this event. At issue is how could such a destructive belief system occur in this modern age? The fact that the cult members used the Internet as a business, and were considered by those who knew them to be polite, friendly, intelligent, creative individuals, only deepens the public's concern. These suicide victims appeared to be above average individuals who, one would think, would not fall prey to such extreme belief systems, let alone end their own productive lives. This mix of distorted spiritual beliefs, UFOs, and the comet Hale- Bopp by apparently above average people, produces a richly woven fabric of contemporary topics that already are of great interest to novelists; and executives responsible for television programming have already seen the marketability of this story. Although morbid, it nonetheless is a story that has a broad base of public interest. The Heaven's Gate members believed that a UFO was hiding behind the comet, and they believed that their next level of development would be found in or with that UFO. Therefore, at the center of this bizarre tragedy is the question of whether or not earth is being visited by UFOs, and if so, what is the nature of their relationship to us. In short, are they really out there, who are they, where do they come from, and what do they want? To date, our society has been unable to answer any of these questions. However, obviously the leaders of Heaven's Gate not only accepted the reality of the presence of UFOs in our skies, but also had a fully developed belief system to explain the relationship of UFOs and their occupants to earth, to us, and to our spiritual nature. This belief system flourished and was accepted as "truth" by the Heaven's Gate members because they had no other information from any authority source that could have challenged the cult's beliefs. My concern, and the reason for writing this editorial is twofold: *First, to focus attention of how this catastrophe could have been avoided; *Second, to support a solution to the root problem in the hope that a tragic event like this need never occur again. THE CAUSE It is well known that people start down the path of accepting a belief system because they are searching for answers. In this case the questions were directly related to the issue of UFOs. Thirty-nine Heaven's Gate people committed suicide because they believed an authority figure that said he knew the answers, that he had the message, and that message included the need for them to die. Their deaths were the result of their listening to the wrong voice of authority. Regrettably, no other voice of authority had spoken about the UFO phenomenon, so they had no way of knowing that the Heaven's Gate belief system was flawed, and consequently that their deaths were unnecessary. That "other voice of authority" exists, but is sworn to secrecy in the name of National Security. At fault are those individuals working in institutions (and paid with federal tax dollars) who for at least a half century, have perpetuated a secret, clandestine investigation of the UFO phenomenon, and who have denied relevant information to the American public. Their continued silence and denial plowed the field where the seeds of destructive cult belief systems grow. It is tragic that American citizens take their own lives as a result of a misguided cult message on UFOs, that otherwise would not have survived in the sunlight of the truth. Unfortunately, other messengers and messages survive and grow in this same field, even as we analyze what occurred with the deaths of the Heaven's Gate cult members. The media has reported that other "secret" cults, such as the Order of the Solar Temple, also have apocalyptic messages. Other organizations attempt to explain UFOs and their mission on earth. Unfortunately, some people take advantage of the public's concern for personal gain. Self-professed science fiction writer Lee Shargel is an example of how dishonesty and fabrication feed into these belief systems. He has written a science fiction novel titled "Voice in the Mirror" published by Oughten House Publications. Apparently, Marshall Applewhite, along with several of his followers, made contact with Mr. Shargel at a book signing promotion just weeks prior to the mass suicide. According to Mr. Shargel, who spoke as a guest on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday, March 30, 1997, the cult believed that his book contained a message from the aliens to them. When directly confronted by George Will, Mr. Shargel would not state that he personally ever had an experience with aliens. Those in the UFO community who have met and know Mr. Shargel, know that in private settings he tells a different story. Privately, not only does he state that he had contact with aliens, but additionally told UFO experiencers that he personally could protect them from any additional alien abductions. Again, a messenger with a message. On March 11, 1997, in an article published in the Coral Springs, Florida, Sun Sentinel newspaper, Mr. Shargel was confronted with the fact that his novel's book jacket was dishonest. Specifically, Mr. Shargel stated that he has a Ph.D. from Northeastern University, and that he was employed by NASA for the Hubble Space Telescope project. Investigation by legitimate UFO researchers has proven these claims to be a lie. To this he responds, "Bad publicity still is publicity. As long as they get the spelling right, S-H-A-R-G-E-L, that's all I care about." Until the American public is allowed to know the information that already exists, information gathered, analyzed, and recorded by institutions charged with the responsibility of protecting the citizens of this country, the possibility of other disastrous and harmful results from self-professed messengers exist. A SOLUTION Soon, a bill will be presented for legislative action before the US Congress. The bill provides AMNESTY from civil or criminal prosecution, and/or internal discipline by superiors, to individuals who step forward to disclose information about the UFO phenomenon. In this way information, that currently is withheld from the American public for supposed national security reasons, will be made available. I know of no deaths that have resulted from reported contact with UFOs or aliens. However, we do now have American citizens taking their own lives because they are looking for answers to legitimate questions. Who's at fault? Anyone in a position of authority who has evidence of the reality of UFOs and who does not step forward. With this legislation they can choose to trust the public's ability to adjust to new knowledge without fear of personal reprisal. When people have knowledge they cannot be led astray, and cults like Heaven's Gate would not and could not exist. This legislation is a win-win situation for Congress. If UFOs do not exist and there is no cover-up, then the Amnesty Bill will encourage none to come forward, but thousands of American citizens will feel protected by their Congress and Senate. If, on the other hand, UFOs do exist, and if knowledge if their existence is being kept from the public, then Congress and the Senate will have provided an invaluable service to American citizens and the world. Donald Watkins Ft. Myers Beach, Florida (This file may be freely distributed as long as it remains complete and unedited.) ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 [In_Search_Of] The Black Vault gets plug from From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 12:01:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:49:02 -0500 Subject: [In_Search_Of] The Black Vault gets plug from Forwarded FYI----> <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:04:37 -0700 To: in_search_of@primenet.com From: Peter Murray <pmurray@azstarnet.com> Subject: [In_Search_Of] The Black Vault gets plug from Arizona Daily Star On-Line News Service. Cc: "John Greenewald Jr." <greeney@primenet.com> We are "In Search Of . . ." answers together. Each posting must reflect personal respect, integrity, honesty, and full disclosure of information. ---------- John and List members........notice at the very bottom of this article reprinted from the AP. Congrats John.......you are making a definite impact on the internet fella! The Tucson Kid! >UFOs not a concern, Pentagon says WASHINGTON (AP) - Convinced there is no extraterrestrial threat, the U.S. military long ago stopped keeping track of UFOs, Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said yesterday. The suicide last week of 39 members of Heaven's Gate, a high-tech UFO cult, prompted a question at yesterday's Pentagon briefing on whether the military follows UFOs. Bacon said the Air Force investigated UFO reports from 1947 to 1969, but out of 12,618 reported sightings found no evidence of extraterrestrials or even of any aircraft representing exotic technology or a threat to the United States. The Air Force stopped the practice because virtually all the UFOs it investigated were explainable as aircraft or weather phenomena and posed no threat. Asked about the possible existence of UFOs, Bacon said the U.S. government "cannot substantiate that they exist." >(Note) * The Black Vault Web site has documents related to government UFO research. <===============================================> (o) BLAZING BARRELS POSTS! (o) pete murray pmurray@azstarnet.com Publisher\Editor 2345 N Craycroft #323 Tucson, Arizona. USA 85712-2820 <===============================================>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 10:56:58 cst Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:38:48 -0500 Subject: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:29:18 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: + UFO-ER + <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The San Diego Suicides and 'UFO Cults' >Now, people ask me, "What does this have to do with UFOs and >UFOlogy?" Well, if "aliens" (those critters reported to be IN >those UFOs) are going >around telling people they are "more than flesh and bone" or >that humans are "spirit beings" in "containers", then it is >possible they are directly or indirectly affecting our belief >systems. The Heaven's Gate Cult is a prime example of what can >happen when one culture interacts with another culture - which >in this case- may be a more advanced, "alien" culture >interacting with the less advanced, human culture. If this is >what's happening, then some form of social engineering is taking >place whether deliberate or accidental and we need to pay CLOSE >ATTENTION to these events. I think the deeper lesson is this: Whenever some joker proclaims his/her own divinity, the followers should beat their feet outta there ASAP before the Sarin, AK-47s, cyanide kool-aid or phenobarb-laced pudding are utilized. Seems to happen every time... Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: CBS covers AZ sightings From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 12:17:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:36:12 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS covers AZ sightings >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:56:56 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CBS covers AZ sightings >I would be interested to hear how the news coverage of this sighting >developed and I suspect a few other readers of this list would as well. As far as I know Dan Rather, having reported on the suicide of the 39, decided to have a serious piece on UFOs. The producer who contacted me was a friend of the producer on Strange Universe, but obtained my number from Ted Loman of Tucson. They wanted some original footage to show (they call it a "stringer") and sent a courier to collect my tape, copy it to Beta at KPHO (a CBS affliate in Phoenix) and uplinked it to satellite to D.C. Thats all I know. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 13:51:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:39:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:13:22 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's [sic] ties to the American >intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this >connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This >association was determined during conversation with him during >the MSNBC web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. I'm all ears. Could you supply some detail concerning Mr. Korff's spydom, and some indication as to your sources? Bruce W.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:46:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale In a message dated 97-04-02 15:04:43 EST, you write: << > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:03 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Michael Hessemann pleads... > >It's time for an objective re-investigation of the Meier case - not by > >individuals like Korff (who already in 1981, when he was still a schoolboy, > >called the Meier case "the most infamous hoax in ufology") or Burgin (who was > >never willing even to listen to Meier and his witnesses), but by > >scientists and experienced researchers. > And what if the new 'objective' investigator comes to similar conclusions > about the nature of the Meier affair? Will Hessemann reject him or her > also? > Bob Rickard - editor > rickard@forteantimes.com >Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American >intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this >connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This >association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC >web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. > Gary For crying out loud, this is a ridiculout allegation thrown around the UFO community with too much abandon. It is one evidence of "arrival" to be called an intelligence agent. Everyone in the UFO community has been tarred with this brush, so everyone is an intelligence agent. Let's rein in the paranoia people. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Project 1947 - Whitley & Hale Bopp From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:14:42 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:44:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Whitley & Hale Bopp >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:20:45 -0800 >From: Greg Long <greglong@PROAXIS.COM> >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Greg Long <greglong@PROAXIS.COM> said: [in an email correspondence with Whitley Streiber] >It isn't clear to me why someone with your obvious high intellectual >caliber, facility with language, and writing abilities would have supported >this hoax. I would think that several phone calls to major observatories >and astronomers in this country would have quickly cleared up the matter. >Yet, apparently this did not happen. Therefore, I am asking if you could >explain to me how you became entangled in the Hale-Bopp hoax. >Second, I am asking if you could give me your feelings regarding whether or >not you feel that the hoax contributed to an atmosphere that attracted >unstable minds to eventually commit suicide. Do you believe that you may >have inadvertently or purposely established a mood, conditions, or context >for attracting people to consider the actual reality of a UFO following the >comet to such an extent--combined with an elaborate belief system--that >they would kill themselves? An ancillary question involves your view of >whether or not the pepetration of hoaxes such as Hale-Bopp is antithetical >to logic, clear reasoning, and science (however limit its reach) in coming >to an understanding of the real UFO phenomenon? >I look forward to your reply. I note that your title in the graphics that >appear under your picture during TV interviews states "UFO Expert." >Therefore, I am eager to hear your responses. [to which Whitley responded:] >From: WStrieber@aol.com >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:42:02 -0500 (EST) >To: greglong@proaxis.com >Subject: Re: Position on Hale-Bopp > >I did not support it. I was neutral toward it, but suggested that if the >object was there, we all try meditating at the same time because the visitors >seem responsive to this. Also, though, I became suspicious when Dr. Brown >said that rolls of film were involved. Professional scopes do not shoot 35mm. >So I released the picture he had sent me and Art--as did art--and it was soon >proved to be a fraud. >I did call telescopes by the way--and was told by Greenwich that they were >tracking the object. Later, I discovered that I had talked to a receptionist >who was afraid not to claim this lest she lose a discovery for one of their >astronomers. She said it without really knowing what was up. >Read the HB material on my website http://www.strieber.com for more details. >I do think that the hoax might have contributed to the deaths, and I am very >distressed about it. The "Hale-Bopp Companion" was quickly resolved on the "net" by those who took the time to investigate its validity, and it was quickly found to be mis-identification and wishful thinking. Unfortunately, there were many who would rather believe in massive conspiracies and don't trust anyone who has the taint of "establishment thinking", which would rule out most "official" sources of information on Hale-Bopp. For many in this group the study of UFOlogy is more akin to a religion than a science, and as such it is often based on faith and hope, rather than evidence and replication. It would certainly seem that the "Heaven's Gate" (HG) group fell into this category, and their belief structure would have latched onto any astronomical event that came along at the right time, and Hale-Bopp was the lucky winner. The question raised above relates to the degree to which UFOlogy is responsible for such beliefs, and what UFOlogists can do to stifle the explosive growth of rumours and innuendo on the Internet. I would suggest that IMHO, UFOlogy is not responsible for what HG would have called a spiritual/religious act. People have done strange things throughout history, and this certainly hasn't changed with the advent of modern technology. It is my opinion that Courtney Brown and his former assistant should have simply held back their supposed "evidence" until the source was willing to be identified, and Art Bell should clearly identify his program as "Entertainment", rather than leave the impression that it is "News/ Documentary" in nature. Bell has stated that he doesn't need to worry about the veracity of his guests because his show is only entertainment, but many in his audiance are impressionable and rarely question the extreme claims that are sometimes made. I believe that Bell has the right to air controversial programming. But just as it is illegal to scream "Fire" in a crowded theater, Bell bears some responsibility for the explosive growth of the "Companion" story on the "net". Brown was given a plarform to promote the "Farsight Institute" and was supported in this by both Bell and Streiber. If the platform had not been offered, the story would have been little more than a few strange posts on the "net", and likely would not be under discussion today. The followers of HG, on the other hand, would have probably found another "sign" to focus on, and they would still be on their way to the "next level". To his credit, Art Bell came down fairly hard on Brown when he failed to come forward with the mysterious "Astronomer". Streiber also quickly jumped ship, after Brown failed to follow through, and they have both modified their WEB sites accordingly. On the other hand, Bell had information in his possession from other astronomers that showed that there was no "companion" to Hale-Bopp, which he apparently did not use on his show to question the veracity of his guest's statements. Keep in mind, the show from Bell's perspective is primarily "entertainment", and not "news" oriented. Just a few thought from my side of the peanut gallery. Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve | greglong |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Alfred's Odd Ode # 122 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 19:59:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:51:10 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 122 Apology to MW #122 (For April 2, 1997) I was going out to mow the lawn, the little woman on my tail. I was brought up short; I had to stop; I should really be in jail. It was like the Learning Channel! It was a real nature show! David the spider battled Goliath the larve, really giving each other a go! I turned in time to see tiny flying dinosaurs, attacking hungry chance. They lunged and deftly parried =96 life=92s impassioned deadly dance! They stomped, and they so slashed, such a serious dispatch! They subdued their prey, no sorrow, or cluttered feeling, no 2 and 20 catch.=20 Horny worms are the object of this *accepted* assault. Their sex has betrayed them, it=92s their own foolish fault. They should have stayed home, read a book, ate some dirt. But Nooooooooooooo! They had to boogie, raise their tails, act the flirt! Back to David and Goliath, the spider had him off the wall. The larvae was suspended, the spider worked with fang and claw! It was the most amazing thing, the spider used a lever! It would lift one larval end, and then the other =96 humiliatingly clever! The sky was blue, that robin=92s egg, cracklingly clear and crystal. Between two clouds it hovered there: a white unbrightened tiny circle? It didn=92t move, but hung quite still =96 for a span of twenty seconds! I dashed inside to get my scope because high strangeness clearly beckoned!! I grabbed my glasses from my field bag with it=92s monopedal mount, And I dashed outside to see =91craft one=92 of an unofficial count. It had gone away of course, elapsed time not a minute; I watched the sky for half an hour, the strangeness gone within it!=20 I laughed out loud, out in the sun, amidst the dying horny worms. I felt just like a worm of carbon, inconsequential, like a germ.=20 It=92s not for me, just yet, to know the secrets of the ages. Yet, persists a feeling there are levels here -- evolving cosmic stages. The spider slew the larvae, so David won again. . .=20 Is similar struggle necessary amongst peers, and mates, and friends? When we control our own desires, and avoid the sociopath -- We build self actualizing structures, taking Maslo=92s make sense path? The dinosaurs (you thought they were birds) broke into startled song. A squirrel, that dreaded rodent, loped, and skittered up along. It=92s tail was asking questions, too cute of course for truth, If it came upon a birds nest, there are birds that won=92t see youth. One almost sees the futile structure of nature red in tooth and claw, But one must then remember that one does owe it for his ALL! The sea of the planet runs in my veins, washes my cells, hydrates my brain. We are _naught_ but living water; imperiling Ghaia portends pain. Well, about this time I feel a familiar burning on my neck,=20 And I turn to find my German wife=92s appraising gaze, by heck. She roles her eyes to skyward, and hefts her rolling pin <g>. She said "Vee failing to communicate. . .?" I got the mower, and started in. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Later on we would play, the bavarian milk maid meets the creature from the black lagoon. . .really! "Du bist ein kleiner Giftzwerg!"; she tells me. UFO=92s are not relevant to her life, but she does keep my train running! And yes, she hits me all the time <g>. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. He had a lot of inconclusive sightings, too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Apr 97 21:33:07 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:53:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:13:22 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >The absence of evidence of an individual's connections in the UFO >field to intelligence operations is not the evidence of absence (it >may just mean you are not investigating deeply enough). Dead right. On the other hand some other rather interesting people have some strange connexions, do they not? It is my considered opinion (and that of my jacuzzi attendant, Lady Amarintha Knights-Castile (and Miss Esme Weatherwax, a member of the cat class, and her brother Mr Owain Glandower, look as if they will agree, given a decent pot of cream), that this logic will lead you directly to the conclusion that Stanton T. Friedman, he of the many antique security clearances, and USAF Reserve officer Dr Jesse Marcel Jr, NOT TO MENTION THE FATHER OF THE LATTER, and many others besides too numerous to mention - but we could throw in "Major" (ha ha) Donald Keyhoe, Lt Col Wendelle "Spice Girls" Stevens, and receiver-of- federal-funds Dr John Mack for good measure - are disinformation agents, moles, skulky fellows and no-good-niks of the first water. How come? How can this be? What is occurring? I hear you cry. Well, you can't *prove* they aren't making such a hash of providing us with evidence for their beliefs deliberately, can you? - so as to discredit ufology in the eyes of the sane and liberal citizenry, and keep the Truth From Coming Out. Keep digging, Gary. Or did you just fall in the hole? best wishes Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] Sgan Aluf, 19 Brigade Mossad NW/EU ("The Lambcatchers") This Week's Password: Zoe's Left Knee
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Lake Ontario Activity From: + UFO-ER + <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:15:48 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 23:50:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Lake Ontario Activity >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:36:20 -0500 >From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: LAKE ONTARIO ACTIVITY >Having listened to my audio tape reporting throughout the evening, we >appear to have had around 20 "events." At one point, two of these >bright orange objects appeared to be engaged in communication or >altercation. They were also taking off from and landing much farther >away than previously. This would put them around 40 miles from our >observation site. Jennifer, I appreciate your sharing of these investigations with us as without these reports, some of us would never know what is going on in your part of the world. I also know how much time and effort goes in to sitting outside on cold, damp evenings waiting to record any unusual events that may occur. Thank you for giving of your time so others can learn more about this phenomenon! I'm having just a bit of a hard time understanding what is meant by "two of these bright orange objects appeared to be engaged in communication or altercation". How, exactly, did these objects behave that led you to this interpretation of their motives or agenda? Could you describe these maneuvers more specifically? About how fast did these objects travel as compared to an airplane, a balloon, other UFOs? Did they travel in only one direction, up, down, left, right, multiple directions, right turns, etc? When you say, "They were also taking off and landing...", what did this look like? Did they ascend or descend slowly, with incredible speeds, at an angle, straight up or down, etc.? When I ask about speeds, could you relate the speeds as compared to conventional aircraft as I have a limited perception of MPHs? Sorry, UFO sightings are not usually my area of focus. I am not into "hardware", I study the drivers not the "vehicles" they drive. But in this case, I feel a need to understand more about these sightings. >These objects can pretty well only be seen through tbe astronomical >binoculars, and not the naked eye. Last week's events were very >visible with the naked eye and average binoculars, and were undoubtedly >submerging into the lake waters. When you say, "undoubtedly submerging into the lake waters", how do you know they were submerging? Did they descend at an angle toward the water, fall straight down to the surface then disappear, how fast did they descend toward the water, could you see a glow under the water after these objects submerged? I haven't been able to catch any of the video footage of these objects and I have only my imagination to work with to form a mental picture of these glowing, orange objects. Could you please help me gain a better perspective on how these objects behaved? I was about to give a brief presentation about photographs taken during an encounter when I was told The Overcomers were in the area. I found Dr. Turner pounding a group of about five Overcomers with questions. Dr. Turner was furious that they should go around giving UFOlogy a bad name by proclaiming UFOs were going to come and pick them up and take them to a higher level of existence. Throughout the entire "confrontation" the Overcomers remained calm and placid. I found another group of six Overcomers standing on the other side of the room so I went over and started talking with them. Unlike Dr. Turner, I did not believe these were "soulless" people who may be part "alien" or actual aliens themselves. I was just curious about their philosophies and why they believed what they believed. They were extremely friendly, warm and open. The more I talked with them, the more I felt as though we'd been friends all our lives. We discussed theories and ideas and philosophies. There were young people around the ages of 19 to 25 as well as older members between the ages of 30 to 50 or 60 years old. They all wore the same short cropped hair styles, no jewelry, comfortable, casual clothes and tennis shoes. There was nothing fancy or odd about them in their outward appearance and they blended easily with the rest of the crowd. During the conversation, one young man said, "Have you heard of a woman named Amy in Dallas who has been saying awful things about us on Prodigy?" I grinned, looked at my name tag and back at the young man until he realized I was the "Amy" he was talking about. He only said, "Oh." We continued to converse for almost an hour. Dr. Turner kept trying to literally pull me away reminding me of the presentation but I was enjoying their company so much, I wouldn't leave. It was just a small presentation so I asked my associate to do it and returned to the conversation. Dr. Turner was certain they had some kind of "brain lock" on me and was quite worried that I might up and leave with them right then and there or they might "suck" my soul from my body. They told me they travel from town to town telling others about their philosophies. They take only two days worth of clothes for each member and camp out or stay in motel rooms donated by compassionate managers. And like the Texas group, they do not use their real names because they don't want family members to find them and try to take them away from the cult. They said there were groups in almost every state in the United States and some in other countries. When asked if they were a cult, they said "yes" and explained that all religions are cults too, according to the definition. I found this point hard to argue with because it is basically accurate. I asked about Applewhite or "Do" as he was called and they described him as an "Elder" with great wisdom. There are a lot of hardships and discipline in the groups and they said many who join the cult cannot endure for long unless they are very committed to their ideals. They said the "Elders" teach them many things and they spend a lot of time in the "classrooms" but they wouldn't say where those "classrooms" were located. In reference to people abandoning their children to join the cult, the main speaker for the group, a white haired woman of about 50, said they do not accept children into the cult because they are not old enough to make such choices in their lives. She said only adults are accepted and when their children are old enough, they, too, can join if they so desire. When I asked about the emotional trauma these abandoned children must feel when one or both parents leave to join the cult, the white haired woman said the children are always left in the best possible care and the parents - as spirit beings in these vehicles -had their choices to make and that's the way it happens. Though we reached agreement on many concepts, this was the main objection I had to the group's belief systems. The cult seems to place the individual in a "vacuum" within a "family". Each person is held responsible for his or her decisions but they are also expected to function as a family, a unit or a ..."hive". These seem very contradictory expectations and I cannot imagine any group functioning under these circumstances. The Arkansas Overcomers were the most intelligent, open, friendly and caring group of people I'd ever met. I wanted to take them all home with me and keep them. Now whether this was due to some cult "brainwashing" techniques or some unsatisfied need within myself, who knows? They seemed to have found what they wanted in life and wanted to share everything with others. I apologized for being so unfair in my comments about the cult on Prodigy and promised to always represent the cult in an objective, unbiased manner in any articles I may write about them. I intend to live up to that promise with any persons or groups I investigate. Just before we parted company, I asked the group if I could take their picture and they said that was fine with them. They gathered together and smiled broadly and openly for the camera. I look at that photo now and remember the warmth and kindness I felt when with these wonderful human beings. It also causes me great sadness because I believe the little white haired woman who often spoke for the group was among the 39 who ended their lives and are no longer with us. I liked her best of all and would have loved to have known her better. As the group left, Dr. Turner rushed outside and wrote down the license plate number of one of the vans the group was driving. She later had it traced and discovered it was not registered to the vehicle on which it was posted. She tried to talk with the people to which the license plates were registered but was unable to locate them. I learned a sharp lesson from these, my first encounters with a "cult". I learned not to judge others so quickly just because their beliefs are different from my own. I learned that no matter how bizarre or strange one's beliefs, they can still be warm, caring human beings (even if they don't want to be human). And now when I listen and read all the harsh words and hushed whispers about the Heaven's Gate cult, I feel anger and pain because so few are stopping to mourn the loss of these 39 fellow human beings. Now that they are gone, we may never know all they had to share and this is a great loss for those of us who prefer to remain in these "vehicles" in this dimension. Most of us never got to know who these people were or what they thought. All we seem to see is "39 CULT MEMBERS COMMIT SUICIDE". Perhaps their philosophies were a little messed up but there were/are a lot of good, sound concepts in their "religion". Maybe they were ashamed to be "humans" and wanted to leave their identities to reach for something better. When I look around at the way humans treat others of their own species, I can hardly blame them for being embarrassed by their "humanness". But there are many good things about humans too. I hope these 39 have found what they were looking for but we will never know. As far as I know, Applewhite, aka "Do", did not return after three and a half days of being dead as promised. Easter '97 came and went with no sign of anyone returning from the dead. After I heard of the relationship between these 39 people and the Overcomers, I called several local TV stations and offered to share the information I had gathered in my files about this cult. Before I could turn around, there was a reporter and a camera-man on my doorstep wanting to interview me! I told them before they ever left the station that I would NOT appear on camera but they acted so disappointed and had such a "lost puppy" look I finally agreed to an on-camera interview only if they hid my identity. The reporters interviewed me for an hour and a half and when it was over, we discovered a huge van blazoned with the TV station's logo parked in front of our house with telescoping poles towering over the neighborhood topped with all kinds of camera equipment and microwave dishes. So much for anonymity! The whole neighborhood was standing outside watching and wondering who I had murdered or what I may be "hiding". After that, I told all the TV stations and newspaper reporters calling that I would have to think about any future interviews and I'd let them know. I am not an "expert" on this cult or any cult. But because of their covert lifestyles, few people know much about them. The media must have had a hard time scurrying to find information about this cult. I'm sure the FBI knew them well. It is just my personal opinion based on my studies and interactions with these individuals but I believe the cult is by no means "dead". If there were "24 Elders" and 6 members sent to "spread the word" in Texas and 11 members in Arkansas, there may be more members scattered over the United States and the world. Applewhite would not leave his followers unless he felt his "teachings" would be carried on by others. I believe Applewhite planned this mass suicide as a "demonstration" to gain attention for his cult and add funds to the cult treasury. Applewhite probably planned this mass suicude for some time. The use of expensive rental property indicates his intentions to "go out in style". He knew the media attention 39 suicides would draw and planned his final "appearances" even beyond his death. His choice of an expensive, lavish mansion (paid for by members) rather than a cheap, simple house or warehouse gives us a clear indication of the way he wanted the world to remember him and the 39 members of his cult. Many people ask if the cult ever gave any indications that suicide was an option. Even as far back as 1976, the press expressed concerns that cult members might commit mass suicide in one of their secret camps. Letters left by those who abandoned all they cherished to join the cult often sounded like suicide notes and reflected desires to leave "this plane of existence". So the possibility has always been part of the cult personality. I've also noticed that the ex-cult member who "discovered" the 39 bodies stopped long enough to video tape the scene before calling the police. What person claiming to be in "shock" would have the presence of mind to video tape such a grizzly discovery? Could this video tape be part of Applewhite's plans and was the video sold to the media to add funds to the remaining cult's treasury? Applewhite may have been suicidal but he wasn't stupid. And finally, the media has overemphasized the cult's connection to the comet Hale Bopp and it's alleged "companion". Why didn't these 39 people kill themselves last week or a week later? Why did Applewhite time the mass suicides to coincide with Hale Bopp AND Easter? Applewhite was often quoted as saying he and "Peep" (Bonnie Lu Trousdale Nettles) would be assisinated and would rise again in three and a half days and be taken up in a UFO to the "Next Level". This is very similar to Christ's return from the dead and ascension into Heaven. Perhaps Applewhite believed he would arise from the dead like Christ and ascend into "Heaven" on or before Easter Sunday. The Heaven's Gate cult is not just a bizarre anomaly to be dismissed and forgotten. They are part of the Zeitgeist, a sign of the times we are living in. They are human beings who want to be something more than human. Rather than improve the human species as a whole, they seek only the transendence of their individual souls. We must ask ourselves in what ways we, as a society, prompted or promoted the events which led 39 people to leave this classroom called "Earth" and seek alternative experiences to life. These drop outs from life will not "graduate" with the rest of us and may, indeed, be left waiting at Heaven's Gate. The entrance to the "Next Level" may rest solely on our ability to evolve as a species and THAT is the most important lesson we must all learn. Thank you so much, Jennifer! Amy Hebert <Yellowrose> ****************************************************************** + UFO-ER + Emergency room for expanding realities. Information -> E-mail <yelorose@swbell.net> *******************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Mr. Mantle's further humors From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:40:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:06:29 -0500 Subject: Mr. Mantle's further humors [The contents of this message are the responsibility of the original sender and do not in anyway reflect or represent the views or opinions of the owner of this E-Mail List] In response to Mr. Mantle's humourous response concerning his use of a psychologist in Miss Morrison's case, and further kind comments he has made about me, I reproduce here the relevant section of yet another letter, written to me by humourous Mr. Mantle, one month after his previous letter. His letter is dated March 28, 1989; "Last but not least, I would appreciate it if you could supply me with the address or phone number of the psychologist Mike Buck. He may be able to help me with one or two matters". In another part of the same letter Mr. Mantle writes; "I have sent you two VHS video tapes in a separate protective envelope and I would like to thank you again" These were two other video tapes from Mr. Harris' investigation archive collection, depicting hypnosis sessions on a well-know female British 'abductee', and another British ex-police officer. How Mr. Mantle had come by the tapes I did not question. Mr. Mantle is accurate about the nature of his profession. He does indeed work for Horsell Graphics, in Leeds, England. Nevertheless, what Mr. Mantle does not mention, is yet another one of his sense of humour, which he applied to a fellow colleague in mid 1980s. During that period, Mr. Mantle resorted to writing derogatory graffiti, for several weeks, on the Walls of his work place about his colleague. Calling him, gay, a man with aids, and other similar slogans. The individual concerned, out of desperation, even wrote a letter to Mr. Mantle's American UFO boss - Mr. Walt Andrus - to which he received no response. Ultimately, Mr. Mantle was summoned in front of a management panel and disciplined. With such humourous history of behaviour, I find Mr. Mantle comment's rather odd regarding management permission to use their facilities. Nevertheless, as evidence of his humourous misuse of company facilities for his own private hobby - UFOs, I produce here some sample evidence, amongst several in our archives; Fax dated: 25 April 1990 to Russia 15 April 1990 to Russia 5 June 1990 to Russia 23 April 1990 to Russia Mr. Mantle profeses that he liked me - yet - in December of 1990, he had to be warned by my lawyers for his excessive "humour". I'd rather not touch upon Mr. Mantle's another phase of humour when he used to take female 'abductees' to the middle of the fields at night, trying to contact the 'aliens' with the help of ouiji-board. Truly Mr. Mantle is a humourous man for all seasons. I wish him every luck and success in his future quests. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Housekeeping and Moderator Message From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 22:58:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 22:58:34 -0500 Subject: Housekeeping and Moderator Message My apologies for the somewhat erratic delivery of UFO UpDates over the past few days. The exigencies of having, on occasion, to leave the ivory tower to show up on various film and TV series sets and do computer and/or video playback..... The premise of this List was/is to allow for serious discussion amongst researchers/investigators, of many aspects of UFO phenomena. Back, a year or so ago and in private E-Mail with some of the original subscribers, we discussed keeping the List private or closed. That would have precluded keenly interested 'civilians' and also the setting up of UFO UpDates' Instant Archive. It would have meant that almost all of the discussion and information would be kept to a select few. It was decided to throw the List open for all to read. In the beginning most of the traffic here was provided by the people the List was founded for. Over the past couple of months, and mostly because of my feelings of 'guilt' about not posting messages from many of the 'keenly interested', the number of posts have increased and the quality of the discussion and information has slipped a notch or two. And therein is a difficulty. The difficulty, for me, as Moderator and editor, in having to decide what to pass on to the List and what not to - without feeling that I'm upsetting and depriving some potential posters of a channel to present their views. The concern is to not have UpDates turn into a news.group or just another list. The only solution is, I think for newer subscribers to not send 'I agrees' or 'yeah, right on' type posts. Spend a while lurking. Read what comes your way and only send material that compliments what's happening on the List. That way, I don't need to do guilt and you won't be disappointed when it doesn't get posted. When you do feel that you absolutely _do_ have to get involved, follow the Posting Instructions for this List - they'll be posted regularly. I think the time has come to call closure on the Heaven's Gate discussion on this List. From the UFO aspect we seemed to have pretty much covered the ground from the house to the perimeter fence. To go beyond is treading on ground that most of us here are not anxious to traverse again. To the long standing subscribers and posters, don't be deterred by this message, you've helped make UFO UpDates a must-subscribe for many hundreds and increased the 'hits' at Glenn Campbell's UFO Mind site by many hundreds every week. Errol Bruce-Knapp Moderator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Santilli film on ABC's "20/20" Friday Night From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:29:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:09:52 -0500 Subject: Santilli film on ABC's "20/20" Friday Night At 10:00 pm on Friday April 4, 1997 the ABC program "20/20" will air its segment on the Santilli Film. It will be interesting to see how they connect this to the cult, which no doubt they will. <g> Rebecca [Schatte]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 02:53:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:18:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > Date: 02 Apr 97 21:33:07 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 03:13:22 -0500 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > >The absence of evidence of an individual's connections in the UFO > >field to intelligence operations is not the evidence of absence (it > >may just mean you are not investigating deeply enough). > Dead right. On the other hand some other rather interesting people > have some strange connexions, do they not? > It is my considered opinion ( *** snip), that this logic will lead you > directly to the conclusion that Stanton T. Friedman, he of the many > antique security clearances, and USAF Reserve officer Dr Jesse Marcel > Jr, NOT TO MENTION THE FATHER OF THE LATTER, and many others besides > too numerous to mention - but we could throw in "Major" (ha ha) > Donald Keyhoe, Lt Col Wendelle "Spice Girls" Stevens, and receiver-of- > federal-funds Dr John Mack for good measure - are disinformation > agents, moles, skulky fellows and no-good-niks of the first water. > How come? How can this be? What is occurring? I hear you cry. Sorry no tear glands! > Well, you can't *prove* they aren't making such a hash of providing > us with evidence for their beliefs deliberately, can you? - so as to > discredit ufology in the eyes of the sane and liberal citizenry, and > keep the Truth From Coming Out. > > Keep digging, Gary. Or did you just fall in the hole? When I move into James Angleton's office I'll sort it our for you. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: CBS covers AZ sightings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 01:18:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:23:28 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS covers AZ sightings > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 12:17:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CBS covers AZ sightings > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net > As far as I know Dan Rather, having reported on the suicide of the 39, > decided to have a serious piece on UFOs. The producer who contacted > me was a friend of the producer on Strange Universe, but obtained my > number from Ted Loman of Tucson. They wanted some original footage > to show (they call it a "stringer") and sent a courier to collect > my tape, copy it to Beta at KPHO (a CBS affliate in Phoenix) and > uplinked it to satellite to D.C. Thats all I know. > Sincerely, > Bill Hamilton The big networks are gearing up for an onslaught on the UFO field, most of which will be bogus, old stock footage etc. They will also be scrambling to get some new stuff like your Arizona video, Bill. Look for Ray Santilli's autopsy film to show up and other standard fare. This will run for the next couple of weeks while the interest level (or morbid curiosity) about UFOs and cults remains in the public interest. Strange Universe will be in their glory and will be selling a lot of footage to the networks, no doubt. That stuff can run from a standard $20-$30 a second to $100 or more. Brace yourselves. Regards, Don Ledger dledger@istar.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Apr 97 08:34:25 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:30:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >For crying out loud, this is a ridiculout allegation thrown around the >UFO >community with too much abandon. It is one evidence of "arrival" to be >called an intelligence agent. Everyone in the UFO community has been >tarred with this brush, so everyone is an intelligence agent. Let's >rein in >the >paranoia people. >KRandle Kevin, Much as I respect you as a researcher, I think you are wrong in this case. If Korff really does have close ties to the intelligence community, that is one element to be considered in evaluating his objectivity. It does not automatically disqualify him, but it is one piece of the puzzle. What is being claimed here is that he admitted those ties to MSNBC. This is certainly worth investigating. Personally, I think the US Govt HAS to discredit Roswell and any other high-profile cases. And they will go to any lengths, including fabricating stories and false evidence, to do so. As far as the allegations of paranoia, which are thrown around with equal abandon, remember the old saying: "It's not paranoia if they really are after you." Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 United Kingdom UFO Network - Pentagon Denies From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:34:02 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:41:56 -0500 Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network - Pentagon Denies United Kingdom UFO Network Source: CNI News Date: April 1st 1997 PENTAGON AGAIN DENIES ANY INTEREST IN UFOs CNI News notes with interest and amusement that the Pentagon chose April Fool's Day to reiterate their stock position on UFOs. The following text ran on the AP wire. Thanks to Erik Beckjord for alerting us to this story. Copyright 1997 The Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) - Convinced there is no extraterrestrial threat, the U.S. military long ago stopped keeping track of UFOs, Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said Tuesday. The suicide last week of 39 members of Heaven's Gate, a high-tech UFO cult, prompted a question at Tuesday's Pentagon briefing on whether the military follows UFOs. Bacon said the Air Force investigated UFO reports from 1947 to 1969 but out of 12,618 reported sightings found no evidence of extraterrestrials or even of any aircraft representing exotic technology or a threat to the United States. The Air Force stopped the practice because virtually all the UFOs it investigated were explainable as aircraft or weather phenomena and posed no threat. Asked about the possible existence of UFOs, Bacon said the U.S. government "cannot substantiate that they exist." *** SEEN OUR WEB SITE? If not, be sure to visit soon at www.cninews.com/ While there, check out our unique "Search CNI News" feature, the only keyword searchable UFO news archive in cyberspace. *** ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 3 Intelligence, tar and history [was: Billy Meier - From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 03:58:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:20:59 -0500 Subject: Intelligence, tar and history [was: Billy Meier - UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > > >Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American > >intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this > >connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This > >association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC > >web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. > > Gary > For crying out loud, this is a ridiculout allegation thrown around the UFO > community with too much abandon. It is one evidence of "arrival" to be > called an intelligence agent. Everyone in the UFO community has been > tarred with this brush, so everyone is an intelligence agent. Let's rein in > the paranoia people. > KRandle You should be asking for the facts rather than stating that I would make a ridiculous allegation. I don't care if Kal Karloff arrives or not. I have never considered anyones' association with the intelligence community to being equivalent to being "tarred with a brush". What I am interested in knowing is about the background of individuals writing and or promoting material in this field so I can better understand the players, their roles, the phenomenon and its history. As you are well aware the intelligence community - as demonstrated through historical documents obtained through declasssification process and the FOIA process has had a long and continual history of investigating the UFO phenomenon both through open domestic and foreign sources as well as covertly through human and technical means of survellance. This is not a ridiculous allegation and here are the facts of the matter: MSNBC held a online, public, internet chat for the promotion of Kal Koroff's book which essentially debunks the idea that what took place at Roswell was the crash of an extraterrestial craft. This event was promoted on the internet and on MSNBC television. (Hey, the guy has a good publicist). My guess as to the number of questioners was 10-15, with an unkown number of listeners. I know of another indivdual who I believe receives this mailing list that was also a participant in this public, online chat. During this public event I inquired as to whether Kal Koroff had served in the military or intelligence community in any capacity. He evaded this question after being asked it several times and responded that - like many people who work at LANL (Lawrence Livermore Laboratories) he had a security clearance. Again I asked several times whether he had served in the military or intelligence community and when a couple of other people also inquired he responsed that he had never served in the military and ignored the question about serving in the intelligence community. Then many other people also inquired whether or not he served/worked for the intelligence community. In fact so many people asked and wanted his answer that the online conference stopped on this point, with other people telling him to answer, stop being evasive or stop the chat. The people participating in the chat said he should not proceed until he answered the question. At this point he responded that he did consult for agencies of our government (which he would not name) in "anti-terrorism". It was also established at this conference that he had several people working for him doing his background research and that he was planning to establish a non-profit foundation to further his research. Also he stated that the funding for the research of his book came from "donations". He would not specify the names of organizations or individuals who had donated him funds. He also stated that he partially self funded his research. Now let us digress: You know Kevin some of us have been around - have friends or family that have served in the intelligence community. Imagine if we had to understand the history of WWII without knowing about Operations ULTRA, MAGIC, KONDOR, TRAMP, BODYGUARD, GRIFFIN, CANDY or CORNFLAKES. Histories of WWII were written for many years without knowledge or understanding of the intelligence communities role. Many documents from WWII are still classified over 50 years later and may significantly change our understanding of that history. Not every former intelligence agent with an interest in the UFO phenomenon is a covert psych war agent serving as a disinformationalist. However it has been documented that some members, active and former, of the Central Intelligence Agency worked in NICAP. It has also been documented that the APRO was mentioned in the Robertson report as an organization which should be watched. A worker in the APRO furnished information on the Lorenzens to an intelligence agency. Intelligence agents questioned a WWII ace who saw flying objects weeks before Kenneth Arnold reported his famous sighting. However, not everyone who has or has had a security clearance is a covert agent. Some people who have served in the military and intelligence services pursue their own interests which came before their active duty. I understand Kevin you investigated for APRO before you joined the Air Force. Some people who have served in the military and intelligence services pursue an interest in UFOs and extra-terrestrials that arose from their service and continue that interest after leaving active duty, the aerospace writer Martin Caidin who recently died is an example in this category. Raymond Fowler served in the military and intelligence services and has pursued active investigation of the UFO extraterrestrial phenomenon for many years. Are any of these people tarred, I think not. Contact with with an extraterrestrial civilization might well be the most momentous event of human history. Can we really imagine that the intelligence community won't be involved. Are we to imagine that the SETI project which is attempting to make contact with extraterrestrials doesn't at least have a liason from the intelligence community. If they don't then I think I am not getting good use of my tax dollars. The first goverment investigators on the scene at Roswell were both members of different organizations in the intelligence community and that's no coincidence! It also seems to be one of few primary facts that all of the investigators agree on whether they think it was a weather balloon, Mogul balloon, extraterrestrial craft or over-runs from an aluminized mylar plant which just happened to drift into Mac Brazel's range. The history of the UFO phenomenon is not bereft of the influence of the intelligence community and that history is being made today and will be in the future. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: CBS Covers Arizona Sightings From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Apr 97 08:34:00 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS Covers Arizona Sightings For two nights in a row, CBS Television has had short segments about the Arizona sightings and UFOs on the evening news with Dan Rather. It is very interesting to me who they have chosen to use as their experts in these brief segments. In the first one Rich Boylan, who was identified only as an "archivist", appeared and stated that the Truman MJ-12 memo was probably a fake planted in the National Archives by UFOlogists. In their second segment, aired last night, they surpassed themselves by having Lee Shargel, identified as a "science fiction writer", on as their expert!!!!! Makes you really wonder who is doing their "research" and how and where. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Alfred's Odd Ode # 123 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 19:25:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:22:41 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 123 Apology to MW #123 (For April 3, 1997) Just pounded a salad of cruciferous veggies But the sauce is elixir, for which you=92re not ready. It=92s balsamic, and olive, and too much raw garlic! It=92s mustard, and honey =96 hot sauced to a cowlick. It=92s salt, and hot pepper! There=92s no water addend! It lathers those veggies with vitamins added! And cruciferous veggies are bathed in this wine. A few bowls of this and you feel so fine! The veggies are missiles armed with an answer That ravages, up ends, and precludes all your cancer. It=92s cabbage, and broccoli, and spouts a=92la brussle Flower of Cauli, and mustard are tussled! Onions, radishes, tomato=92s et. al.=20 They work with the body kind, and contractual. They slide through your gut pulling toxins from flesh.=20 They scrape, and they clean; why, they make you feel fresh! And the morning time sitdown is done in a flash! If you were sitting for money, then you now make no cash! =20 And if garlic=92s a problem for the squeamish or shallow. The smell is unpleasant only if courage is yellow. Garlic is magic, a food of true gods. If you feign you can=92t eat it, you=92re a suffering knob! It=92s your health made robust, your energy unbounded!! If your smell is preferred, then your _smarts_ are confounded! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Eat it at night, then splash lilac water on your too-kus in the morning. . .but eat it! And you can smell like garlic around me anytime =96 I=92ve been moved to hugs on a garlic smellin=92 stranger. . .bet John Velez eats garlic! I=92ve a sneakin=92 suspicion ~Pat~ shoots the cloves directly into his veins!! ~ EAT IT=85=85=85..! EAT IT=85=85=85=85..! Peal a clove down, and knead it! Don=92t you feel better? Don=92t you feel nice? It really matters! You=92re wrong. It=92s right! Just eat it .. eat it .. eat it .. .. eat it .. eat it! =85=85=85=85. (Woooo!) --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. All those fundamentalists can eat THIS!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 'Face In The Window' Video From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:09:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:27:12 -0500 Subject: 'Face In The Window' Video "Strange Universe" did a feature recently on the "Face In The Window" video--the one being hawked by John Carpenter--that I missed. I saw the promo for the show which referred to the video as the "bane of our existence"-- meaning we so-called UFOlogists. I purchased the video and personally found it to be hilarious, which I doubt was its intended effect. The supposed alien resembled "Yoda-On-A-Stick," in the words of my 15 year old nephew, while I thought it looked more like "Toonses: the Cat That Can Drive," from the "Saturday Nite Live" skit of several years ago. Ironically, this doesn't negate in any way the possible validity of the video, it just highlights the "visitors" need for a better PR man, in my opinion. I am curious, however, what "Strange Universe" had to say on the subject. If anybody out there saw that particular show could you provide me with a brief overview? Thanks in advance... Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Further to 'Housekeeping and Moderator Message' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:50:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:50:37 -0500 Subject: Further to 'Housekeeping and Moderator Message' If you're sending me a personal message, _please_ key 'NOT FOR POSTING' at the top of the message body. Thus will you not be either dismayed or pissed. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Chris Rutkowski's 1996 Canadian UFO Survey From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:06:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:06:24 -0500 Subject: Chris Rutkowski's 1996 Canadian UFO Survey Canadians reported more than 250 UFOs in 1996 An analysis of 258 UFO sightings reported officially in Canada during 1996 shows that Canadians continue to see many strange things flying in the sky. Ufology Research of Manitoba, working in co-operation with researchers across Canada, has released its annual review of Canadian UFO cases. The study used case reports from private UFO organizations and some government sources. "UFO sightings continue to be reported at a fairly constant rate," says Chris Rutkowski, an astronomer and science writer in Winnipeg who for the past 22 years has been studying UFO reports in Canada. "People still report observing unusual objects in the sky, and some of these objects do not have obvious explanations." According to the study: the typical UFO sighting occurs after 9:00 p.m.; most sightings have two or more witnesses; more UFOs are seen in BC, Ontario and Quebec than other provinces; and many witnesses are pilots, police and other individuals with reasonably good observing capabilities and good judgement. While most cases involve star-like objects in the night sky, some witnesses describe disc-shaped or triangular objects at close range. Although most cases had explanations, a small percentage were not that easy to dismiss. "We were still left with some cases that were relatively well-investigated and involved unusual objects that did not seem to have been aeroplanes, balloons or stars," Rutkowski notes. "The continued reporting of UFOs leads us to recommend more studies of the phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical scientists." Among the unknowns this year: black triangular objects buzzing houses in Quebec and BC; brilliantly-lighted objects frightening motorists in Quebec; rectangular "spaceships" blocking a snowmobile trail in the Northwest Territories; and a saucer-shaped object seen hovering beside a farmhouse in Manitoba. "The number of reported UFOs in increasing slightly each year," says Rutkowski. "Interest in the subject is simply not going away." For more information, and for information on regional commentators, contact: Chris Rutkowski Ufology Research of Manitoba 204-269-7553 E-mail: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca 1996 Canadian UFO Survey: Summary of Results o The number of UFO reports made in Canada has increased slightly during the past eight years. There now are approximately 190 cases of unidentified flying objects reported each year, up slightly from previous year's calculations. o The distribution of UFO reports in Canada was somewhat related to the distribution of population. Western Canada was over-represented in terms of UFO report numbers, while the Maritimes are under-represented. o During the past eight years, there was no definite monthly trend found in Canadian UFO reports. Each year, there appear to be regional monthly fluctuations. UFOs seem to be as likely to be reported in summer as in winter. o Approximately 80% of UFO sightings were merely observations of lights in the night sky. o About 13% of all UFO reports are unexplained. This percentage of unknowns falls to about 5% when only higher-quality cases are considered. o Most UFO sightings occurred between 9:00 pm and midnight. o UFO incidents usually had more than one witness. o In 1996, the typical UFO sighting lasted nearly half and hour, a dramatic increase from last year's average of seven minutes. o Most reported UFOs were white in colour. The most important findings of this study include the fact that UFO sightings have continued to be reported at a constant level over the past several years. People still report observing unusual objects in the sky, and some of these objects do not have obvious explanations. Many witnesses are pilots police and other individuals with reasonably good observing capabilities and good judgement. Although most reported UFOs are simply lights in the night sky, a significant number are objects with definite shapes observed within the witnesses� frame of reference. Popular opinion to the contrary, there is yet to be any incontrovertible evidence that some UFO cases involve extraterrestrial contact. However, the continued reporting of UFOs by the public suggests a need for further examination of the phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical scientists. For further information, contact: Ufology Research of Manitoba E-mail: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Know anything about these incidents? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Apr 97 14:36:25 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:04:14 -0500 Subject: Know anything about these incidents? I just had a phone call from an old friend who lives in Albuquerque to report two unusual incidents. He wanted to know if I could find out more about either. First: On Saturday night at about 7:00 or so local time he was at the local observatory with a number of amateur astronomers who had gathered to watch the comet. Someone said there it is and pointed almost directly up at an object in the sky with a tail behind it. He was quickly told that this was not the comet, since it was in the wrong direction and too high in the sky. Several of those present looked at this object with their telescopes, at around 75 and 100 power, and could see that it was apparently an aircraft of some sort, but extremely high up and they thought they could make out a metallic body with two "outboard" engines, one of which appeared to be in trouble and was belching smoke, thus the "tail" and misidentification as the comet. The object was heading due west. It took about 35 - 40 minutes from first sighting until it reached the horizon and passed from view. The smoke trail did not dissipate quickly, again implying very high altitude, and was clearly visible for at least 15 minutes after the object passed from view. Was this the Aurora with engine trouble heading home to Area 51? Or was it some other secret aircraft? Or was it something else? Anyone reading this know anything more about this? Second incident. My friend heard on local TV on Monday night two reports, on both early and late news, of a large metallic object crashing on a ranch. One report said it was the gondola of a secret research balloon (Oh no!!! Not balloons again!!!). Anyway it was reported that NASA and the military had put a cordon around the area and would not let reporters approach. The late news announced that more information would be in later broadcasts, but the story just vanished and no further comment has been heard about it. Could the two incidents be related??????? I would appreciate any feedback on either of these incidents. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Skywatch: Transcript of CBS news story April 1, From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL" <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:35:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:46:33 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Transcript of CBS news story April 1, ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 20:02:45 -0700 (MST) To: skywatch@phoenix.net From: edwards@rmi.net (TIM EDWARDS) Subject: Transcript of CBS news story April 1, 1997 CBS News Transript: [Dan Rather] You don't have to be in a cult or spaced out to believe in UFOs. Millions of Americans do and believe the government is somehow covering it up. David Barton has been pouring over the real X Files and watching the skies. Unexplained night lights over the skies of Arizona. For most local news stations they weren't even worth a mention. But to UFO hunters March 13 was night to remember. That evening at 7:22 pm the calls started poring in from all over Arizona. Peter Davenport runs the National UFO Reporting Center from his home in Seattle Washington. Rarely does a day go by that he doesn't get a report of a sighting. We provide people with a place to call if they think they have seen something unusual that they would like to report where they won't be rediculed or laughed at. Jimmy Carter said he stopped laughing after he himself spotted and reported a UFO. In fact polls consistently show roughly half of the adult population believe in UFOs. So we asked the Pentagon one more time. [We can't substantiate the existence of UFOs nor are we harboring the remains of UFOs.] The Airforce quit investigating UFOs in 1969 but the results of its investigations into more than 12000 thousand sightings is in the National Archives. One of the documents you can find there is the so called MJ 12 document, a 1954 White House memmo summoning the Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff to and extrodinary meeting of the National Security Council about UFOs. To UFO buffs its a smoking gun, proof that the government has known all along UFOs were real. The archivist Rich Boylan says its probally a forgery somebody slipped into the file. We noticed 15 to 20 historical inacuracies that contradicted all the other government records. In last years movie Independence Day a thunderstruck president is taken to a top secret base where the remains of a spacecraft and its occupants are preserved. [Don't tell me you have had this for 40 years and you don't know anything about them.] Easy to kiss off as a Hollywood invention, easy to point out there is always a logical explanation for lights in the sky but impossible to deny the belief in UFOs is widespread and real. End 2 -10 second video segments of Tom King's Phoenix video were shown. [impressive] They were not accurate on the local news coverage in Phoenix. It was extensive and many affiliates picked up the broadcast nationally. Overall a very positive report and a plus for ufology in light of the recent California news. Tim Edwards April 1, 1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Apr 97 04:40:21 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:46:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian Regarding: >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:40:00 -0500 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Mr. Mantle's further humors Once again Armen Dickensian, in his quest to discredit Philip Mantle (who, let's face it, has discredited himself enough), fails to address the questions raised; which are why does he insist on passing himself off as a serious ufologist when he has on many occasions been alleged to have represented himself as different people, rung people up using false voices, and by his own admission alleged he has 'colleagues' who stake out witnesses houses without them being aware (it's good to stalk). Not to mention his claim (which I had forgotten until PM raised it) that Armen once claimed to be able to divert National Health Service funding into UFO abduction research - laugh of 1989 that was. Beats me. Besides hinting at arcane knowledge which only he is privy to, Armen seems to like to hint at indiscretions Philip may or may not have committed, in the hope that either the list or the ufological vultures may take them up and topple PM from the position that so many people obviously perceive him to be in within the subject. Let's have a look and challenge Armen again. So far we have had: a) An implication that PM was, er, 'over-friendly' with a witness. * Where's your proof Armen? b) That PM uses company time/materials for his UFO research. * So what? and now c) That PM had the Alan Godfrey regression video - in some way against Harry Harris' wishes - "How Mr. Mantle had come by the tapes I did not question." -so cute! * Most of Britain's ufologists have this tape - apparently. d) That PM had done something at work involving harrassing a colleague * (this veiled mention, by the way, refers to an incident involving PMs former ufological and work colleague Mark Birdsall, sibling of the Graham Birdsall of UFO zine - the event in question is fairly typical (unfortunately) of British factory worker 'fun', and I would venture to suggest that Mark B complained to Walt Andrus not to protect his honour but to discredit PM with MUFON because someone from their group wanted to be MUFON approved after PM had left them in acrimonious circumstances). All very sad and tawdry, isn't it? But this is how Armen knows, not because he has 'ways' of getting info but because he's thick as ufologists with the Brothers B (his most recent telephone call to them being Wednesday 2nd April - we can all play *that* game Armen). The ufological politics regarding UFO magazine, its editors and their rise has not as yet been made public but it can't be long now! d) that PM used to "take female 'abductees' to the middle of the fields at night, trying to contact the 'aliens' with the help of ouiji-board." *Don't we all? Sorry! Have you *any* proof of this Armen? If you had would it make PM a lesser human being for it - or just someone who was a bit confused? We all know Philip can't spell properly anyaway, so he'd never get to grips with a Ouija board. Once again I apologise to list members about raking over old ufological politics. But when Henry/Armen raises them I think it's valid. As with my post about the Randles/Friedman/Harris dispute (which the latter parties have mysteriously gone quiet on) I firmly believe these little snits are at the root of how UFO investiagtors operate and ply their trade - bickering like children, jockeying for position trying to discredit each other in a desparate attempt to become important. It's also instructive that whenever UK ufology displays its dirty plumage the names above recur time and time again. It's all waiting for Jim Schnabel to write a book about it. Furthermore, in the past week on this list we have seen people allege they can have houses put under surveillance, that certain ufologists might be working for the (any?) government and other unsubstantiated statements. Perhaps it would be a good idea that unless it is clearly meant as speculation that list-posters give their sources for any outlandish claims. Surely that is scientific ufology? Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 06:24:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:48:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:34:02 +0000 >From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> >Organization: Federation >Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network - Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs >To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >United Kingdom UFO Network >Source: CNI News >Date: April 1st 1997 >PENTAGON AGAIN DENIES ANY INTEREST IN UFOs [article deleted for brevity] >SEEN OUR WEB SITE? If not, be sure to visit soon at www.cninews.com/ >While there, check out our unique "Search CNI News" feature, the only >keyword searchable UFO news archive in cyberspace. >ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk >United Kingdom UFO Network >http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk This story has gotten a lot of play in Europe. The problem is that there isn't really a story here. The Pentagon Spokesman was responding to a reporter's question during the regular Tuesday briefing at the Pentagon. I suppose they might have prompted a reporter to ask the question, so they would have the chance to give their "canned" response, but that seems unlikely. The question was prompted by the "Heaven's Gate" group suicide, and the response reiterated the findings of Project Blue Book, which had ended nearly thirty years ago. Let's not get hung up on stories that are being created out of the media's need to find another facet to the "Heaven's Gate" graduation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Mr. Mantle's further humors From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Apr 97 08:56:21 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:49:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Mr. Mantle's further humors >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:40:00 -0500 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Mr. Mantle's further humors >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> Henry, As my colleague Philip is away on holiday and can not respond to you, I suggest you hold any further communications on this matter until he returns in one week. I am sure Philip will be glad to respond to you at that time. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Info request From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Apr 97 09:36:25 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:57:25 -0500 Subject: Info request Help anyone? A BUFORA member, Jayne Stamp, who is in her final year at Hull University is doing her dissertation (BSc Psychology) about "the accuracy of eyewitness reports of re-entering satellites/rockets." and how they can be misperceived as UFOs. As it is rare that anyone at degree level does this sort of work I think Jayne needs all the help she can get. Has anyone got any info or references to info about satellites etc which have been misperceived? If so please email me privately and I'll pass any info on to Jayne. Thanks Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 4 Update Arizona Sightings From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 08:57:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:59:22 -0500 Subject: Update Arizona Sightings UPDATE ON ARIZONA SIGHTINGS I am putting together a summary report on the mass UFO sightings over Arizona on March 13th. As I was in the process of taking time to read the reports and examine the few sketches that I have, I realized that we may have three possible events that occurred on that night depending on the reliability of the witnesses. Event 1 was described as a V-formation of lights that passed over the greater Phoenix area between 8:15 P.M. and 8:30 P.M. Witnesses stated that they could see between the bright lights of the formation and that one light kept moving out of place. However, one witness said he could see the moon "yellow" as this formation passed low and slow and quietly overhead. Event 2 was described as a very large triangular object that appeared opaque to witnesses. This object passed on a similar trajectory from NW to SE more to the eastern side of the city, appearing in the northern sections at 8:45 P.M. and seen south over Chandler at about 9:00 P.M. This was a huge structured object with bottom panels and it obscured stars. It passed low and slow and quietly overhead. Event 3 was the appearance of bright amber lights over the Estrella Mountains at about 10 P.M. in the approximate area where one witness saw Event 1 as well as Event 3. He said the Event 1 formation passed out of sight over the Estrellas. Tom King videotaped Event 3. I have seen one video tape of Event 1, but no others have surface yet. Strange Universe, Telesaurus Productions, is returning to Phoenix this Sunday to do a follow-up report with other witnesses. I will show the sketches on camera. As soon as I finish the summary report, I will post the report and sketches on my "Alien Magic" website at URL http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.com. If anyone reading this has knowledge of other witnesses, sketches, or video, please place them in contact with me or Tom King. We are continuing stake-outs and skywatches. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Ass't State Dir MUFON AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Intelligence, Tar and History [was: Billy From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 15:46:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 00:26:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence, Tar and History [was: Billy > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 03:58:34 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Intelligence, tar and history > > From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> > > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > > >Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American > > >intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this > > >connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This > > >association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC > > >web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. > > > Gary > > For crying out loud, this is a ridiculout allegation thrown around the UFO > > community with too much abandon. It is one evidence of "arrival" to be > > called an intelligence agent. Everyone in the UFO community has been > > tarred with this brush, so everyone is an intelligence agent. Let's rein in > > the paranoia people. > > KRandle Amen, Kevin, calling everyone an intelligence agent and implying sinister motives is a way of putting aside what they have to say. I have said a number of times ufologists all need at least one book on logic and one on critical thinking in their libraries. If such books were read and used by ufologists, there were not be this morass of twisted thinking in the field. Sorry, Gary, but I am going after you on a lot of these topics which seem to be articles of faith with today's ufologist. Gary's contentions below are mild compared to some, but unfortunately they represent a trend. Let's not study UFOs. Let's study government involvement. Everyone can become a junior James Bond. But when we study this government involvement let's make darn sure we don't go anywhere near primary sources. Get your facts from third hand sources. Sometime ago when this list raged with a debate how Top Secret material was handled, I offered to copy a regulation for those who wished to know about the procedures. Guess how many takers I got: Zero. It was more fun to speculate or go to someone's book or listen to someone who might have had a Top Secret clearance once--although he really wasn't sure if he did or not. > You should be asking for the facts rather than stating that I would make > a ridiculous allegation. I don't care if Kal Karloff arrives or not. > I have never considered anyones' association with the intelligence > community to being equivalent to being "tarred with a brush". This is at least a start. However, what do terms like "intelligence community" mean? A monolithic structure of some kind. We have the CIA, intelligence in each branch of the military, so why did we need DIA? For years counter-intelligence was in a shambles. The reason that so many of these people like Aldrich Ames are being caught is that about five years ago improvement were made to counterintelligence. They are just now paying off. Look at how easy it was for Ames and others evaded safeguards for years. Sure convinces me that the intelligence "community" knows what they are doing. The great coups like the Fall of the Wall and the Collaspe of the USSR are more evidence for an all-seeing intelligence community. If they saw it, why didn't they tell the political leaders. > What I am interested in knowing is about the background of individuals > writing and or promoting material in this field so I can better > understand the players, their roles, the phenomenon and its history. > As you are well aware the intelligence community - as demonstrated > through historical documents obtained through declasssification process > and the FOIA process has had a long and continual history of > investigating the UFO phenomenon both through open domestic and foreign > sources as well as covertly through human and technical means of survellance. Yes, and these UFO documents are very small part of the actual number of documents. However, if you get a book that is on nothing but UFOs, it does seem overwhelming. Go to the National Archives where much raw intelligence is stored. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack to find something on UFOs. Oh, yes, when you concentrate the UFO material, it does looks impressive, but compared to the intelligence production of some small secitons like, US Military Liaison Mission in East Germany, it is nothing. > This is not a ridiculous allegation and here are the facts of the matter: > MSNBC held a online, public, internet chat for the promotion of > Kal Koroff's book which essentially debunks the idea that what took > place at Roswell was the crash of an extraterrestial craft. > This event was promoted on the internet and on MSNBC television. > (Hey, the guy has a good publicist). My guess as to the number of > questioners was 10-15, with an unkown number of listeners. I know of > another indivdual who I believe receives this mailing list that > was also a participant in this public, online chat. > During this public event I inquired as to whether > Kal Koroff had served in the military or intelligence > community in any capacity. He evaded > this question after being asked it several times and > responded that -like many people who work at LANL > (Lawrence Livermore Laboratories) he > had a security clearance. Again I asked several times > whether he had served in the military or intelligence > community and when a couple of other people also inquired > he responsed that he had never served in the > military and ignored the question about serving in > the intelligence community. > Then many other people also inquired whether or not he served/worked for > the intelligence community. In fact so many people asked and wanted his > answer that the online conference stopped on this point, with other > people telling him to answer, stop being evasive or stop the chat. > The people participating in the chat said he should not proceed until he > answered the question. Once again it is more interesting to know who this individual is rather than what he might have to say. Maybe some of his money came from CSICOP. So what? Do his arguments stand up to examination? > At this point he responded that he did consult for >agencies of our government (which he would not name) >in "anti-terrorism". > It was also established at this conference that he had several > people working for him doing his background > research and that he was planning to establish a non-profit > foundation to further his research. Also he > stated that the funding for the research of his book came from > "donations". He would not specify the names of organizations or > individuals who had donated him funds. He also stated that he > partially self funded his research. And here I agree with Gary, why must Koff be so evasive? My evaluation would be that the source of his money may hurt his creditability with his target audience. Otherwise, he maybe just a jerk. Or perhaps he is a "disinformation agent," in which case I will eat lots of crow....but I think not, because there are not such animals as "disinformation agents." Seems to me Kroff could catagorize his donations without releasing an sensitive individual's name, if that were necessary. > Now let us digress: > You know Kevin some of us have been around - have >friends or family that have served in the intelligence >community. There is that magic phrase again. Maybe you should consider the intelligence failures of the last fifty years or so. Seems to me "the intelligence community" is more like a giant political turf warfare battlefield than anything as cohesive as a "community." > Imagine if we had to understand the history of WWII > without knowing about Operations ULTRA, MAGIC, KONDOR, > TRAMP, BODYGUARD, GRIFFIN, CANDY or CORNFLAKES. Yes, and to hear the proponents tell it: they won the war. So if we had ULTRA and knew everything, why did we have Anzio, Salerno, the Battle of the Bulge, Leyte Gulf ("All America wants to know: where are the fast battleships!?"), and other excellent intelligence coups? I wouldn't be seduced by these people who make wild claims about ULTRA and other intelligence activities. Perhaps the Ultra people did know everything. Perhaps the "green door," (ie obsessive secrecy) got in the way. Or perhaps the muddle head command staffs would not pay attention. Or mostly likely: The intelligence people who *now* know everything with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight were not as sure of things when events were popping around them. > Histories of WWII were written for many years without > knowledge or understanding of the intelligence communities > role. Many documents from WWII are still classified over > 50 years later and may significantly change our understanding >of that history. > Not every former intelligence agent with an interest in the UFO > phenomenon is a covert psych war agent serving as a > disinformationalist. Lots of good emotive terms here. Disinformationalist. Opsec (Operational security) is one of the areas of poorest execution for the military. How do you think the news media gets there first? Well, when the Air Force goes to a third world country, they book every luxury hotel room in the place. Makes it easy for some stringer to alert the media. Psych warfare. Yes, let's remember the "Hearts and Minds" campaign in the great US victory in Veit Nam. The psyops material I have seen was not particular impressive. Now Madison Avenue; that is impressive. Of course, that is not called psych warfare, it's called advertising. Most psyops training material makes the point that you must stick to the truth. Why did people in the East listen to the Voice of America? Not because of the platitude it transmitted. Because the East Bloc media lied about how cold the temperature was outside in winter. Amazing how little things destroy or enhance creditability. > However it has been documented that some members, > active and former, of the Central Intelligence Agency worked in NICAP. Well, that is easy Adm. Hillenkoetter was on the Board. If you are talking about the Todd Ziechel's contribution to history, you better take his ideas with a mountain of salt. And, of course, COL Joseph Bryan, a psyops specialist and the CIA'ers killed NICAP. Why did they not destroy the files??? Perhaps if someone did a little digging before all the major players are dead, they will find that Gordon Lore goad the NICAP board into action against Major Keyhoe because of the financially impossible situation. Of course, when the Board did finally act, they did not find much of a good odor about a disloyal subordinate like Lore. Worse yet, he did not turn NICAP around financially. I've seen letters from Dewey Fournet complaining about the amount of time he was spending trying to get NICAP on a pay-as-you-go footing. After being absolutely ruthless with those who had a claim on NICAP, the Board was able to rid themselves of the problem by turning it over the Acuff. So, NICAP went from mismanagement under ufologists to mismanagement under a business management company. Today, it is far easier to say the CIA did them in than to look at declining public interest, declining income, declining management, declining expertise. Let's not do any research here; let's listen to hacks. > It has also been documented that the APRO was mentioned in the Robertson > report as an organization which should be watched. No doubt they were on someone's watch list. > A worker in the APRO > furnished information on the Lorenzens to an intelligence agency. That is the interpretation of Lorenzens. If so, why did it not keep up with other agents. Lots of information was kept on a lot of people, and there were indeed major abuses. What was the reason for pointing out APRO? Because they knew the truth? No. Look at the Robertson recommendation again. > Intelligence agents questioned a WWII ace who saw flying >objects weeks > before Kenneth Arnold reported his famous sighting. I think you may have your dates mixed up. But even so, look at COL Friend's comments on the intelligence balloon recovery teams that stayed in place after the Japanese balloon bomb attack. I should hope that some one was minding the store. I looked but have yet to find any evidence of these little detactments mentioned by Friend. > However, not everyone who has or has had a security >clearance is a covert agent. Well, I should hope so...considering some of the absolute trash that is able to get security clearances. I know because I helped revoke a number clearances for real criminal types who should never have gotten one in the first place. > Some people who have served in the military and intelligence > services pursue their own interests which came before their > active duty. > I understand Kevin you investigated for APRO before you > joined the Air Force. And I investigated for NICAP and APRO while in the military. I was also on the list of foreign representatives for APRO when I served in Korea. The only activity I stopped when I joined the military was corresponding with the Soviet ufologists. > Some people who have served in the military and intelligence > services pursue an interest in UFOs and extra-terrestrials that > arose from their service and continue that interest after leaving > active duty, the aerospace writer Martin Caidin who recently died > is an example in this category. My interest in UFO was there way before I joined up as were many if you ask them. > Raymond Fowler served in the military and intelligence services > and has pursued active investigation of the UFO extraterrestrial > phenomenon for many years. > Are any of these people tarred, I think not. > Contact with with an extraterrestrial civilization might well be the > most momentous event of human history. Can we really imagine that the > intelligence community won't be involved. I can easily. It is not of strategic or tactical interest. Especially, not to the Air Force. > Are we to imagine that the > SETI project which is attempting to make contact with > extraterrestrials doesn't at least have a liason from the > intelligence community. If they don't then I think I am > not getting good use of my tax dollars. Possibly, but even if they did--for what reason. Would SETI find some Soviet device in space? That would, of course, be of immediate interest. > The first goverment investigators on the scene at Roswell > were both members of different organizations in the intelligence > community and that's no coincidence! Why not? I assume you are talking about CIC and military intelligence. Look at the FBI memo about being kept out of the loop. The FBI did a lot of the legwork in establishing the Fugo Balloons and got little credit. The best early investigative work in UFOs was by the FBI and not the bumbling military. And then the FBI appeared to be cut out again. > It also seems to be one of few primary facts > that all of the investigators agree on whether they think it was a > weather balloon, Mogul balloon, extraterrestrial craft or over-runs from > an aluminized mylar plant which just happened to drift into Mac Brazel's > range. > The history of the UFO phenomenon is not bereft of the > influence of the intelligence community and that history > is being made today and will be in the future. If the Roswell Report is the best the military can do then UFO believers should feel very comfortable. Weaver and McAndrew missed a lot of obvious places to look--the SAC Daily staff diary for one or the 8th Air Force A-2 files which they could not seem to find or the search at Maxwell which missed half the historical keywords in their computer search.... Of course, I don't see much research going into likely government records by ufologists....or into UFOs....there is a lot of yarn spinning and speculation....not much research....if that sound a little cynical....it should. Cynicism, as someone once said, is the last refuge of an idealist. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: CBS Covers Arizona Sightings From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 14:36:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:48:16 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS Covers Arizona Sightings From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Apr 97 08:34:00 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: CBS Covers Arizona Sightings >For two nights in a row, CBS Television has had short >segments about the Arizona sightings and UFOs on the evening >news with Dan Rather. >In their second segment, aired last night, they surpassed themselves >by having Lee Shargel, identified as a "science fiction writer", on >as their expert!!!!! This is an interesting post, Bob. I was on End-of-the-Line with Jeff Rense and Wes Thomas. Subject: Lee Shargel. Lee had called me the night before. It seems he believes that he is the new leader of Applewhite's group and is coming to Arizona on Sunday to assemble this group on Monday at a National Monument to await the return of the spacecraft - then he will tell all followers to go home to their families. Problem is that the police announced there weren't any followers left, and Lee may have never met Marshall Applewhite. The really interesting story is that there is serious ongoing research into the Arizona sightings and we now have sketches and new videos. Telesaurus Productions (Strange Universe) is coming here on Sunday as well to do a follow-up story. But Lee will probably get better press coverage. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List. #15 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 13:09:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:40:56 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List. #15 Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List. #15 (Members 1264 on 5-4-97) What's New on The Crop Circle Connector Saturday 5th April. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ livington County, Michigan. Reported 7th of February 1997 An intriguing set of photographs of this early event in Grassland. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Spiral: Issue No 17. April 1997 OUT NOW! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Steve Alexander's Postcards of 1996 Available from Monday 7th April. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ New Sampling Guidelines from BLT Research Team in 1997 Now you can join this important team in the fields, under the guidelines set. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Circles Viljakuviot Web Page from Finland. Impressive new page, with Visual appeal! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Finlands Centre of Circles Research. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A late new report of an American Crop Circle in 1996 found in Corn. See INTERNATIONAL CROP CIRCLES 1996 Reported on 14th of November in Swazye Howard County, Indiana. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ SC Magazine, March 1997, Issue No 62 OUT NOW! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Nellis Video? From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:16:13 -0500 Subject: Nellis Video? I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. The tape was supposedly from a tracking camera they use there and included audio of ground crew members saying they saw the object and didnt know what it was, and sillhouetted interviews with the people who supposedly smuggled it out saying how concerned they were... The object seemed to be some sort of central cylindrical structure surrounded by 3 globes that were attached. It flew at rapid right angles and looked like no aircraft I've ever seen (it certainly wasnt aerodynamically sound). I ask because I read this List and am subscribed to most of the pertinent newsgroups and havent heard a peep about it. -- Thanx and later... K.F. Bundy kfb@harborcom.net "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 RAAF sighted following UFOs From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:04:11 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:19:36 -0500 Subject: RAAF sighted following UFOs IPP National 24hr UFO Hotline Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 Action UFO/UAS report as 4th April 1997. FOR RESPONDENT CONTACT Phone:Ross Dowe. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EMAIL. rossdowe@netlink.net.au or rossdowe@hotmail.com Web page.... http://netlink.net.au/rossdowe/intex.htm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thursday 3rd April 1997 @ 10.22pm NSW. Umina Central Coast,(Just north of Sydney). Respondent reports sighting up 12 illuminated triangular or stealth type aircraft travelling overhead towards the Palm Beach area from Umina, last night. The intensely bright triangular illuminations travelled in a tight "V formation", after a few minutes the illuminations descended and seemed to disappeared into the sea! The respondent claimed that 10 minutes later aloud and noisy (AEWAC) Airborne Early Warning type of aircraft with a large round disc on top of it, flew into the area on the same course and heading as the 12 illuminations and it also disappeared. Following this event a heavy duty or military type helicopter with two large spotlights combed the area and seemed to taking an interest in the Umina Beach area (the Gosford side of Pittwater). A small or light aircraft also came into view as the Helicopter headed over towards the area where the 12 illumination disappeared. Both aircraft continued and passed the area where the other aircraft disappeared unil they were out of sight near the Palm Beach district. The 35 year old respondent who seems genuine said that "I was frightened by the event because when I was outside, I first felt some kind of a electrical field pass though me, just before I turned around to see them (12 illuminations) pass overhead, I was stunned white as a ghost". Events 1/..... Electrical field. 2/..... 12 illuminations pass overhead. 3/..... A large RAAF type aircraft with attached disc follows the same course and direction. 4/.... A large or heavy duty helicopter combs the area with search lights. 5..... A lite aircraft also combs the area with lights. The RAAF advises that they had not recorded any aircraft in the area, however the Navy at Jervis Bay is currently in a joint exercise with American Naval forces. Australia does not have a AEWAC or aircraft with a attached radar dish ( however tenders are out for the purchase of such) but we have the Orion's without dish's. The National UFO Hotline wish to hear from eyewitness's of this and or any associated event, and can call Ross Dowe on PH: 190 2243529.. Regards Ross Dowe. IPP- National UFO Hotline PH : 190 2243529
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian (& Sheffield) From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:27:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:48:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian (& Sheffield) Date: 04 Apr 97 04:40:21 EST From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian Regarding: >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:40:00 -0500 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Mr. Mantle's further humors >All very sad and tawdry, isn't it? >Andy Certainly is Andy, hence no reference to anything else from me.=20 Far, far more interesting topics, reports and incidents to contend with than this. For example: The Sheffield, England 'event'. A full report will feature in our May/June issue of UFO Magazine. Visited the alleged 'site', found some scorched earth, spoke with the farmer who set it alight to burn bramble two weeks before alleged incident and nearly had a heart attack walking up to the top of this darned hill in the process. Still, helped to shed a few pounds in the process. A lot of sweat and hard toil, but at least the trousers feel a little more comfortable. FT event in Folkestone, UK: A good case this, with the incident taking place right next door to the residence of one Michael Howard MP, yes, the Home Secretary himself. Credible witnesses too, including a journalist. Steven Spielberg & "Deep Impact": I mentioned this at an evening conference in Leeds on 26 February. Took some 'flak' from people writing in saying it was all phoney baloney. Full details next issue about the new movie involving... a comet. As a brief aside, I was fortunate enough to receive an advance proof copy of "Left at East Gate" by Larry Warren & Peter Robbins. (Publication date 23 May - =A315.99 - ISBN: 1-85479-2318.=20 Concerning alleged events at Rendlesham Forest in 1980 (RAF Woodbridge/Bentwaters). Long in the offing I know, but well worth a look and full of interesting snippets/documentation/correspondence. The UK publishers (Michael O'Mara Books Limited) claim it will be "The biggest UFO Book of 1997" - they could well be right. Like I said, lots of other interesting news to contend with... Best regards (to all), Graham W. Birdsall (Editor) UFO Magazine (UK)=20 =20 Search for other documents from or mentioning: 106151.1150 | 101322.751
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 First Use of the term 'flap'? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:34:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:33:37 -0500 Subject: First Use of the term 'flap'? I would like to locate the first use of the term "flap" in the UFO literature. If anyone has a reference for this or is familiar with how this term came to be applied please email me. Thanks, Gary [Levy]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Alfred's Odd Ode #124 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:12:39 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:45:38 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #124 Apology to MW #124 (For April 5, 1997) Jump back . .perhaps to backtrack . . you have to make it to the end. The end of what? Un-ended schooling, it=92s at this you can=92t pretend!=20 Things then seem a little thicker, when what you=92re going on is thin.=20 And what of trust. Does it go bust? Does it take a layer of skin? Trust is oil, but both must have it, or friction wears it pretty thin. Distrust is disrespect, my =E9litist, centric friend. I am your student. I am your teacher. I am loyal, smart and social. Investigation gone awry, has swelled the skeptic vocals Of confining ideas, or foamed contempt by these people antisocial. . . Now think of reasons, predicted treasons, when upset holds its sorry sway. You find respectless, a moneyed high class, its stones in mammon=92s pay. Trust in gub-mint to do the right thing? Ha, Ha -- the hell you say! Consider diatribes dissatisfaction of so called unibombers. Or Tim McVey, that lonely soul at line=92s end of *alarmers*. They act alone? Ha! You misleading lying charmer! Involvement of the government is more than implications! The CIA does mind control =96 obscene manipulations? The FBI continues the tale of Hoover=92s mad transgressions! What are we forgetting when we pray at science alters? Where do we fall when we give the reigns to those that plan to falter? What have we gained when we put our faith in even scientific halter? Well, think of the clouds so high overhead, so wavy, wispy, and spaced. Think blankets of air dissimilar, sliding, a bow on it=92s string of air lace -- A music sub sonic, unheard, and ignored -- a tonal dinner we can=92t taste! I bet the whales hear it, and they answer upside down.=20 They answer that they=92re clue-less, with their whistle laced in frown. A world enraged strikes with ebola and aids, still, humans act the clown. Think I slop too broad a brush, with a too dramatic song? Think I miss the point on what goes down, and I do this all along? The irony is I pray you=92re _right_, you hope and pray I=92m _wrong_! Lehmberg@snowhill.com I really do hope that Twitch, Fun, Rog, and Demented Valueless Moonie (et. al., to the point of hypoxia) are right; that the world is the simple little two dimensional-white-bread model they think it is. I=92ll have a big laugh at my own expense when that has been demonstrated.=20 When Jerry Falwell stands at the gates of heaven, (taken during the rapture, and now a ranking angel in the host) and denies me entry past the pearly gates. . .when I sit miserably soaking in my own acknowledged stupidity, wailing with regret at time mispent . . . but alive in what _was_ a healthy all along . . .my butt smarting at the expulsion of all those flying monkeys. . . But if they=92re wrong, we=92re courting death, and failure =96 and that lot with no backbone has been whistling in the dark. And them with the flashlights all at hand . . . AT HAND!!=20 "God is an iron." <Spider Robinson>.=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. The were a lot of flying monkeys signifying justice that day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Space UFOs Identified? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:49:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Space UFOs Identified? Regarding... >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:00:04 -0500 (EST) >Subject: EL and ELVES Paul Devereux wrote: >>From: FS337211@Sol.YorkU.CA >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:03:07 -0500 (EST) >>Subject: Space UFOs Identified? >>To: updates@globalserve.net >Nick Balaskas wrote: >>Any comments on how ELVES may be related to Earth Lights? >I don't know, Nick, but they sound fascinating. Can you give a few >references for these things? It would seem all ufologists should know >more about these phenomena. Paul, This might be of interest: OFFICIAL NASA PRESS RELEASE: Sprites Donald L. Savage Headquarters, Washington, D.C. July 26, 1994 (Phone: 202/358-1727) Kathy Berry Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska, Fairbanks (Phone: 907/474-7798) RELEASE: 94-124 SPECTACULAR COLOR FLASHES RECORDED ABOVE ELECTRICAL STORMS Hundreds of spectacular red and blue flashes of light that extend upward from electrical thunderstorms to altitudes as high as 60 miles (97 km)recently were recorded on video for the first time. The unusual flashes occurred over thunderstorms in the Midwest between June 28 and July 12 during a NASA-sponsored investigation into the phenomenon. To capture the images, Principal Investigators Davis Sentman and Eugene Wescott, professors at the Geophysical Institute with the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, (UAF) and co-directors of the research project, used special low-light-level cameras aboard two jet aircraft flown out of Oklahoma City. "The flashes look like the Fourth of July, like Roman candles with fountains," said Sentman. "The video footage we received far exceeded our expectations." Some of the flashes extend up through the ozone layer into the base of the ionosphere, the region of the upper atmosphere where auroras occur. Sentman and Wescott captured 19 black-and white images of the flashes above thunderstorms in the Midwest last year. Before that, scientists did not have proof that the flashes existed. This month, they were able to accurately measure the position and altitude of the flashes and to examine their color and speed for the first time, using two aircraft for triangulation and improved camera systems designed by Project Engineer Daniel Osborne, with the Geophysical Institute. They also were able to identify two distinctly different kinds of flashes, which they call sprites and blue jets. Sprites are blood red flashes that appear with bluish tendrils dangling from the bottom of some. The flashes, which last only a few thousandths of a second, extend from above storm clouds up to about 60 miles (97 km) high, reaching the bottom of the ionosphere. The researchers also recorded radio noise that coincided with the sprite flashes. When the recorded signals are played through a speaker, they "pop," a sound that differs from normal lightning discharge signals. The sprites have been recorded on a TV spectrograph and will be analyzed to determine their atomic and molecular source. Since they are associated with thunderstorms and lightning, scientists suspect the flashes may be a form of electrical discharge. If so, they could present a concern to high-altitude research aircraft. Blue jets are flashes that appear in narrow beams, sprays, fans or cones of light which give off a blue or purple hue. "To the eye, they resemble material ejected from a high explosive source, the tracks of atomic particles, or rays in a cloud chamber," Wescott said. Pilots and others have reported seeing blue or green columns of light above thunderstorms for years, but Sentman and Wescott were the first to capture them on video. They recorded about a dozen blue jets over an intense storm in Arkansas on June 30. The jets appeared to originate at the top of storm clouds and then to travel upward to an altitude of about 20 miles (32 km). They occurred at various angles at speeds ranging from 20 to 60 miles a second (32 to 97km/s), which is well above the speed of sound, but far below that of light or radio waves. The scientists coordinated their observations with other groups in Fort Collins, Colorado, Pennsylvania State University and Stanford University, where researchers made video and radio wave observations from the ground. The aircraft were leased by UAF from Aero Air, Inc., Hillsboro, Oregon. - end - NOTE TO EDITORS: To illustrate this story, one color and two black and white images and a two minute, 46 second videotape are available to news media by faxing your request to NASA Headquarters Broadcasting and Imaging Branch on 202/358-4333. Photo numbers are: Color: B & W: 94-HC-186 94-H-200(B&W image of 94-HC-186) 94-H-201 94-H-202 Additional information on observations of the phenomenon can be obtained by faxing NASA Headquarters News and Information Branch on 202/358-4210, requesting Release Number 93-167. [End] There's an excellent source of further information and some images at URL: http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/sprites.html James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 ABC's 20/20 report From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Apr 97 23:26:32 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:09:40 -0500 Subject: ABC's 20/20 report Hi everyone, Earlier I had alerted Ray Santilli that 20/20 on ABC was going to broadcast their story on the alien autopsy film tonight. Ray phoned me twice today to discuss this, and I agreed to watch the segment and prepare a brief report for him. I expected the segment to be a hatchet job because I knew that not a single person on the pro side of the fence had been interviewed. But I had not expected to see something as badly done as I saw. Follows my report sent to Ray: Well, I just sat through the 20/20 segment on the AA film. Out of their one hour program they only devoted about ten minutes to this story, and began it with a segment about Heaven's Gate and seriously deluded UFO believers. Then they brought on Steve Johnson of SFX who said he thought the film was made by a bunch of kids. They followed this with Tray Stokes, who repeated his same tired old arguments from his web page. Throughout this and the rest of the report they used short segments of the original film, and since they did not get this from you I have to wonder just where they got it. A sculptor with a French sounding name which I did not get said that there was a mold seam down the side of the body, a seam which on many viewings of the film I have never detected a trace of. They also showed a stock clip of Stan Winston working in his studio and obviously could not get an on-camera from him, since they just repeated a statement from an interview with him in which he said he thought the film was a fake. Then they trotted out Joe Nichols of PSICOP and Phil Klass, both of whom discounted the possibility of aliens and the film. They ended their segment with a recreation by their SFX experts, who created an "alien" which looked nothing like the one in the film, and filled it with ridiculously unrealistic innards. Then, just to add icing to the cake, they dragged out old "it would have been in color" McGovern and had him parrot his memorized line. Significantly, not a single medical expert was interviewed, although most who have seen the film do not think it is an FX dummy. On the whole I think we can congratulate ABS News, reporter Bob Brown and producer Joe Pfifferling for foisting off a load of very offensive bullshit on the American public. I am very disappointed because when Pfifferling called me on the phone some time ago to talk about the segment he assured me that they were going to do a "balanced" presentation and interview people on both sides of the fence. I gave him a long list of names and contact information of good experts on both sides of the story, thinking that for once a UFO story might get a fair hearing and presentation. The only person on my long list who was interviewed for this program was Phil Klass. So much for journalistic integrity. Best wishes, Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Lee Shargel on ITN (UK) From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:27:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:54:04 -0500 Subject: Lee Shargel on ITN (UK) [This is posted as an exception to the no 'Heaven's Gate' rule - ebk] Dear Colleagues, This may be of interest: Lee Shargel on ITN (United Kingdom) early morning news, Thursday 3 April 1997 05.40am. Text taken from CBS Report (thankfully taped) on crowds gathering in Arizona Desert awaiting the coming of the 'Mothership'. Quoted as science fiction author Lee Shargel: "And they are going to board this ship and they are going to be designated as ambassadors or emissary's for planet earth." Film producer Alex Pappas rented the house to the Heaven's Gate group from 1995. The group sold Mr Pappas a film screenplay entitled 'Beyone Human: Return to the Nex Level'. Pappas claimed the screenplay was a kind of Bible for the group and that the story ended with what could be interpreted as a suicide pact, when the humans at the end are all beamed up to an awaiting 'Mothership'. He [Pappas] claims the group believed their God rode in a huge 'Mothership'. Quote: "..for most of us I doubt we know where our God is." - END - I note that Shargel (who I had the misfortune to meet in Laughlin, Nevada, at the International UFO Congress back in January of this year) was befriended by cult members in San Diego. The question I pose is this: Did Lee Shargel write the screenplay which was, and I quote: "..a kind of Bible for the group"? The atmosphere Shargel whipped up among gullible members of the audience at Laughlin had to be seen to be believed. If this man came anywhere near to repeating his lecture amidst total believers at San Diego, then unquestionably it may have acted as a catalyst for what eventually it transpired. He shoulders a heavy responsibility if this scenario proves correct. Unfortunately, Shargel spoke in similar tones on the ITN news broacast of the CBS feature. He appears to have learned nothing and is, in my opinion, an extremely dangerous runaway train that should be derailed as soon as possible - beginning I would suggest with a total blank cancellation of future speaking engagements at any and all venues worldwide. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 DISPATCH #46 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:31:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:55:24 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #46 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #46 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 4/4/97 Quote of the Week "[We] cannot substantiate that they exist." Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon, responding to a reporter's Heaven's Gate-related question about whether the Air Force tracks UFOs. Bacon, who wouldn't confirm that UFOs don't exist either, said the Air Force stopped tracking the semi-non-existent entities in 1969. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: Heinlein, Hitler, Stalin, Heinlein & Lennon (not John) Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Sandy Aego" writes to defend Robert Heinlein, who wasn't even attacked in a recent Heaven's Gate article by Nebula editor Paul Thompson. Enjoy! "To defame the famous book by Robert Heinlein, 'Stranger in a Strange land' by compairing the main character to applegate or , whatever his name was is sad. That book is the bible of science fiction and fantasy and such a strong character would never mislead the human race as a Jim Jones or, david karesh (not sure of Spelling sorry) and the many other false humans who deemed themselves the true spirits of mans spiritual needs. These type of men never had the answer and were sweeped up in there own egos. I think because of dick size thats why they started this crap. Look at Hitler, Stalin, Lennon (not John), middle ages with the catholic church, tyrrants go back ever since mankind could hold a large bone in their hand...and millions of people killed unnecessarily...for what ego gratification, wealth, and power(sounds like penis envy to me) when I think of mankind and all that we have done to eachother and still do now it's with the media...no wonder these idiots get worshippers; people just do not know who to turn to anymore. They want to turn to someone but, the answer is not there it has always been within themselves...sorry to ramble but I got caught up in this crap. Thank you for letting me have a forum to speak into.." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ We're Here, We're Weird, Get Used To It! In about a week, on April 10, ParaScope will celebrate its first birthday! (And what a wild trip around the sun it's been.) In a medium and business arena where slick, multi-million-dollar online ventures have come and gone, we're still here, and bigger and better than ever. March was a record month for us, both on AOL and the web, thanks to you, the people crazy enough to keep visiting us week after week. We'll be marking our year anniversary with a few special features and events -- including a fabulous "Best of ParaScope: Year One" collection of articles -- so be sure to stop by both sites next Thursday, visit us in the chat rooms, wish us a happy birthday, and enjoy some of the surprises we're cooking up for you all. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Is There Muse Sick In Your Mess Age? Those wonderful web wizards have done it again! We're thrilled to announce that ParaScope has completed the final touches on a new, totally awesome, mind-blowingly cool threaded message board center on our web site. Now you can rant, rave and rage at people you don't even know, across vast stretches of space and time, all from the comfort of your own browser. Check out our new message boards and leave us a little piece of your mind, but please try to be civil. (You wouldn't want to hurt our feelings, now, would you?) http://www.parascope.com/other/wwwboard/index.htm -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ The Mystery Box Revealed What's in the box? For a month, only a single person on the planet knew for sure what was inside the ParaScope Mystery Box. (It held more than Al Capone's vault, we can tell you that!) And as part of a most unscientific an experiment in remote viewing, we asked you to tell us what you envisioned in the box. At last, the truth is revealed: a cigar, a remote control, a whisk, a modem cable and a roll of toilet paper. Among the wrong suggestions we received: Jimmy Hoffa, Hitler's brain, and a chupacabra. Check ParaScope next week for the details on the winners (and hilarious losers) in our Mystery Box Remote Viewing Challenge! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ It's the End of the World As We Know It (Or Is It?) As we race to the end of the millennium, philosophers speak out on their theories of the end of the world, or at least all the gnarly stuff that might happen soon. Are we indeed heading toward the end of the planet, or is paranoia running rampant? Join us in ParaScope's Virtual Chat Room, the Crop Circle, Saturday, April 5th at 9pm ET. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Crash & Burn With ParaScope in Roswell One year after Independence Day, UFO researchers and enthusiasts from around the country and around the world will be gathering in Roswell, NM to mark a more significant anniversary. It's been 50 years this summer since the infamous Roswell incident, and a giant week-long extravaganza of events is planned to mark the occasion. ParaScope is planning to turn out in force, and we'd like to see every one of our readers, fans, chat room regulars and even our detractors there. Join us in Roswell around July for a UFO race, music festival, 10K alien chase walk/run, bike race, planetarium show, film festival, crash site tours, and symposium. For more details or to reserve your space, don't delay! Write to pscplegend@aol.com and put "roswell rendezvous" in your subject line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, April 7: UFOs Haunt the Night Skies of Australia The skies of Australia have been filled with UFO activity in recent months, as scores of reports flood in from the land down under. More than 50 encounters, including two landings in the suburbs of Melbourne, have been reported since February. From bright lights in the sky to bright yellow jelly slime in the yard, get the latest news on the Australia UFO flap. -------------------------- Tuesday, April 8: Subliminal Threat, Part II Last week, Dossier editor Jon Elliston examined the great "subliminal threat" scare in the 1950s. But the American public frequently falls into paroxysms of hysteria regarding the use of subliminal imagery in films, music, television and advertising. The second segment of this two-part series delves deeper into the "secret pitch," from allegations of Disney cartoon brainwashing to the Judas Priest subliminal suicide trial. And don't miss Part I of "The Subliminal Threat Scare," available now at http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/sublim.htm or in the Dossier section on the AOL site. -------------------------- Wednesday, April 9: UFO Sightings Roundup Whoever told you that UFOs only visit trailer parks in the midwest hasn't been skygazing in other parts of the world. The skies are full of strange sightings around the world, and in the most comprehensive, up-to-date report, you can find out not only what's going on, but where. From Quebec to California, from France to the Florida Keys, we present a round-up of recent UFO sighting reports from around the globe. -------------------------- Thursday, April 10: The Astrological Administration: Star Power at the Reagan White House For eight years, the actions of the most powerful man on the planet were adjusted to accommodate the advice of astrologer Joan Quigly. Nancy Reagan hired Quigly, who reports that she "contributed ideas and astrological advice that shaped administration policy with the U.S.S.R. and with regard to other crucial matters." Enigma editor D. Trull examines astrological antics in the Reagan White House, from Nancy's fascination with star charts to the disgust of top White House aides, who were required to tailor the President's duties to predictions based on the positions of stars and planets. -------------------------- Friday, April 11: Hale-Bopp Viewing Session from Morehead Planetarium No applesauce, no secret faxes from Vatican fifth columnists -- just a clear night and a spectacular comet. Nebula editor Paul B. Thompson takes us to the Morehead Planetarium on the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (where the original Mercury 7 astronauts studied the skies) for a special viewing of Comet Hale-Bopp. You've probably gotten a pretty good look at Hale-Bopp from your front porch by now, but be sure to check out our exclusive first-hand look at Hale-Bopp through the 24" lens of the Morehead Planetarium's telescope. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Want to help change the world, or at least a little corner of the online world? Here's your chance. Check out the following positions at ParaScope: CyberSuperParaSleuths Investigating and reporting on the unknown world of the paranormal is a demanding job, so we're demanding you get involved and volunteer to write for ParaScope. If you have talent and experience in writing and reporting, as well as strong investigative and research skills, then you may be up to the challenge of writing for ParaScope's Enigma section, covering fortean phenomena, unexplained events and just plain weird stuff. If you've got a taste for the offbeat, send your resume, a strong writing sample and few details about your personal interests in the paranormal to Enigma Editor D. Trull at pscptrull@aol.com. Be sure to put "enigma writer" in the subject of your letter. ---------------------------- Sketchers, Forgers, Fakers, Freaks and Fans If you are great with a pen, brush, stylus or other artistic tool, we can put your talents to use. ParaScope always has needs of illustrators who can supply artwork in digital form, regardless of what medium you use to create your work. So if you like to paint, draw, sketch, doodle, push pixels or just smear fingerpaints around -- better yet, if you're actually any good at this stuff -- send a note (along with an attached digital sample of your work under 150k) ParaScope publisher Ruffin Prevost at ruffinp@parascope.com, and put the words "artist sample" in the subject of your letter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | pscplegend |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Intelligence, Tar and History From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Apr 97 10:37:01 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:23:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence, Tar and History >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 15:46:06 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Intelligence, Tar and History [was: Billy >Meier-Another 'Guru's Finale Jan, Very interesting and thoughtful post. I do have one question though. On what basis do you insist that disinformation agents do not exist? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Apr 97 12:14:20 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:28:11 -0500 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:34:44 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: First Use of the term "flap" >I would like to locate the first use of the term "flap" in the UFO >literature. If anyone has a reference for this or is familiar >with how this term came to be applied please email me. Flap in this sense means "a disturbance or commotion" and derives from the Old English flappe, which means a slap in the face. It's a common American slang expression, but not used much today. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Nellis Video? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 14:07:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:39:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 > From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Nellis video > I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including > a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. The tape was supposedly > from a tracking camera they use there and included audio of ground crew > members saying they saw the object and didnt know what it was, and > sillhouetted interviews with the people who supposedly smuggled it out > saying how concerned they were... > The object seemed to be some sort of central cylindrical structure > surrounded by 3 globes that were attached. It flew at rapid right angles > and looked like no aircraft I've ever seen (it certainly wasnt > aerodynamically sound). > K.F. Bundy I believe David Rudiak and Dean Adams had a prolonged discussion about this video about 6 months ago in the newsgroup alt.paranet.ufo. You might try looking in Deja News to locate it. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:34:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:42:04 -0500 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report > Date: 04 Apr 97 23:26:32 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: ABC's 20/20 report > Hi everyone, > Earlier I had alerted Ray Santilli that 20/20 on ABC was > going to broadcast their story on the alien autopsy film > tonight. Ray phoned me twice today to discuss this, and > I agreed to watch the segment and prepare a brief report > for him. I expected the segment to be a hatchet job > because I knew that not a single person on the pro side > of the fence had been interviewed. But I had not > expected to see something as badly done as I saw. > Bob I don't want to kick anyones sacred cow here, but I've been looking for an email address for ABC's 20/20 so I could send them note saying "Well where have you guys been for the last two years? Most serious investigators I know had blown the Santilli autopsy off as being bogus at least that long ago. Get on with it for God's sake and report on something a bit more serious. Just one man's opinion. Regards Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Apr 97 12:27:35 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:34:23 -0500 Subject: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:27:04 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Far, far more interesting topics, reports and incidents to contend with >than this. >For example: The Sheffield, England 'event'. >A full report will feature in our May/June issue of UFO >Magazine. Visited the alleged 'site', found some >scorched earth, spoke with the farmer who set it >alight to burn bramble two weeks before alleged >incident and nearly had a heart attack walking up > to the top of this darned hill in the process. Still, >helped to shed a few pounds in the process. A >lot of sweat and hard toil, but at least the trousers >feel a little more comfortable. We'll all be interested to see what it says Graham. As far as myself and Dave Clarke are concerned (having now spoken to all of the witnesses who have come forward plus a few I ensnared by letters in the relevant local papers) there was no 'crash' and therefore no crash site. Only three people phoned the police on the night of the event (we have a photo-copy of the log book) and the location of the event *seems* to have been over the moors and not pinpointable. From speaking to the witnesses, the police, the local ufologist (Martin Jeffry) the BAA and the Seismology Unit, it seems that the 'event' was actually a concatenation of disparate events involving a possible bolide and or a military jet (responsible for the sonic boom), a low flying aircraft (seen and videod - but twenty minutes *after* the 'main' event of 10.06pm and which was drawn into the 'event' purely 'cos it was there) and a lot of wishful thinking. It's easy to see how this case, heavily featured on both local and national TV and newspapers, could be manipulated into something it isn't. Most of the small groups of ufologists in northern England have been scouring the area for the past ten days, getting hopelessly confused and over excited about the non existant 'crash'. A great many events were reported from all over northern England that night by comet-sensitized people out and gazing upward due to it being a starry starry night (see the quote at the end for more on this). None of these seem to be connected in any way with the Sheffield 'event'. I suspect that the UFO press - and I would hope not Graham Birdsall's UFO magazine - will be turning it into something rather bigger than it is, desperate as they are for 'big' cases and especially for some crash retrievals. There is a ufologist in Rotherham, whose name escapes me now but who has been quoted as saying that he will do all in his power to "make this case Britain's Roswell" - eek! I have also heard that Graham B. is of the opinion it was some form of UAV which crashed and that witnesses whose testimony didn't fit that interpretation were discarded. I could be wrong about this as it only came from the local ufologist who showed Graham and his 'team' round last weekend. Apparently there was some confusion during this investigation when Graham and chums thought they were being watched by people in vans with high-powered binos, until it was pointed out that it was just birders out after the rare species in the area. Easy to mistake the forces of Intelligence and Supression for birdwatchers though. My guess is it was actually Armen V. or his 'colleagues'! So UK ufologists, and those in far-flung lands who see the UK UFO press, watch for this case and see how it turns out. Andy Tough on ufology, tough on the *causes* of ufology "After the earthquake in Los Angeles at 4.31am on January 17 1994 his staff began to get phone calls from people concerned about the 'strange sky'......: had it anything to do with the 6.7 magnitude catastrophe, they asked? It sure had. the earthquake had knocked out power from most of the city. From their streets and backyards, the Los Angeles citizens saw something they had never seen except in a planetarium: the stars." >From a review in the Guardian 6/3/97, of E C Krupp's 'Skywatchers, Shamans and Kings: The Astronomy of Power'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 BWW Media Alert 970405 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:16:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:21:41 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970405 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) April 5, 1997 In the immortal words of Bullwinkle the Moose, "I'm gettin' close." I almost got this out before Saturday this week. At least, I'm still getting it out. Hey, I like doing it, even though it takes up so much time and energy...guess I just have a bigfoot on my back. There are some good things happening in media coverage of the paranormal! First, STRANGE UNIVERSE has been completely re-vamped. I think we can safely say it's in the "post-smirk" era. Gone are the bits on topless carwashes and such, and the single host is now trying to be almost Orsonian (that's Welles, of course) in his serious delivery. The point, though, is that some of the recent episodes were excellent television, in particular the episode that focussed on the recent mass UFO sightings (and videos) in Arizona. The reaction in the UFO community to the change has been overwhelmingly positive. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean the show will necessarily be renewed. It's apparently been dropped in some places (including, ironically, Phoenix just before that episode aired...I've seen posts from people suggesting the timing was not a coincidence, which I don't buy right now). If you want the show to stay on, the thing to do is to contact the local station which was showing it. If it wasn't on in your area (it did have very wide coverage), contact any station and request it. Go to the (new and improved version...much better program descriptions, even if they don't have next week's up yet :) ) website to get a station list. It's the same URL, http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse. Also, END OF THE LINE radio with Jeff Rense is now on the Premiere Radio Network, which should put it on a lot more stations. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get the station list: I don't see it on the Premiere website. This is a really well-done radio show on weird stuff (and some conspiracy topics): nice to see it moving up. Check their website at http://www.endoftheline.com In another radio show, THE EDGE OF REALITY is on major stations across the country on Saturday nights, and is booking some outstanding guests. It continues to pick up affiliates, and seems to be doing well. When they get a website, I'll let you know :) . FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. Thursday, at 10:30 PM, on E!, NIGHT STAND, which parodies talk shows, will have a guest parodying James "The Amazing" Randi, who is an arch-skeptic. For the real Randi, listen to THE EDGE OF REALITY on Saturday night at 8:00 PM (it runs at that time tape-delayed on KSFO in San Francisco...it's technically on at 5:00 PM Pacific, so 8:00 PM Eastern. Most times in these listings are Pacific). For an exquisitely American take on UFOs, see The Three Stooges in FLYING SAUCER DAFFY on the Family Channel at 11:40 PM on :Thursday. I love the Leonard Maltin comment about these guys (may be a paraphrase, going from memory): "The world is divided into two kinds of people. Those who like the Three Stooges, and those who wonder why." George Utley reports a UFO sighting on NEWHART on Thursday at 10:00 PM on NIckelodeon, repeated Friday at 3:30 AM. Syndicated reruns of BLOSSOM also feature a UFO episode, probably on Tuesday. Monday at 9:20 PM, Disney is running HARRY AND THE HENDERSONS, the Spielberg bigfoot movie starring John Lithgow...repeats Tuesday at 4:05 AM. In movie theatres, THE SIXTH MAN focusses on a basketball player who returns from the dead to help his brother. I saw it with my family (we figured it was an okay bet for my seven-year old). It was better than I expected from a movie in the TOPPER mode (you know..."Nobody else can see me but you"). CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. The 8th Great UFO - ET - Alien Abduction Conference; April 11-12-13, 1997; Days Inn, Bordentown, New Jersey. Presentations/slide shows include: Marc Davenport (author* of VISITORS FROM TIME) on "Chupacabras", "Alien Engineering of Human Society", "What Your Government is Afraid to Tell You."; Professor G. Cope Schellhorn on "Extraterrestrials Through History"; "Research Findings on the 1996 ET Crash in Brazil." Marc Whitford on "Dimensional Doorways: Are They Real?", "Are You An Abductee? (Magnetometer Demonstration); Rev. Michael Carter on "The Bible is Full of UFOs."; Rev. Bob Short on "Giant Rock and the Good Old Days."; Cmdr. Graham Bethune on "Explorers from Beyond."; George Fawcett on "50 Years of UFO Photos Worldwide", "UFO Similarities and Repetitions."; Friday only = $25; Saturday only = $55; Sunday only = $55; 2-day pass = $100; 3-day pass = $120 Seating is limited: call now, toll free, for advance tickets: 1-800-905-8367 MasterCard, Visa, and American Express Accepted For more information, call 609-888-1358 11:00-3:00 Eastern time The Stars Over Hollywood Paranormal Phenomena & UFO Exposition May 9-10-11, 1997; at the Holiday Inn, 1755 N. Highland Ave., Hollywood, California Starring Andy Reiss, "super psychic" Sunday keynote speaker: Scott Catamas, Producer of Strange Universe: Other confirmed speakers as of March 1, 1997 include: Dolores Cannon; Sean David Morton; Dr. Bruce Goldberg (future life progression) Judy Heavenly Sherry Sims; Dr. Anthony Hilder; Randolph Winters (Pleidians...likely to have photos); Marc Davenport; Leah Haley (author*); Albert Taylor; Donna Reis; Ed Skrocki, II V.S. Ferguson; Sri Donato; The Atherius Society; Dr. Kadar Raja Dove; Mark McCandish; Michael Telestarr; C. L. Turnage; Scott Catamas; Penny Harper; Moshe Zwang; Terry Johnson. Sponsors include: Greenleaf Publications*; FATE magazine; Strange Universe; Star Love Network. For more information, call Realife Expositions at 916-241-1540 or 818-896-8418. For credit-card sales of advanced tickets, call 1-800-905-8367 in the USA or 615-896-1356 outside the USA. PERIODICALS Everybody is running a piece on Heaven's Gate: cover stories in TIME, NEWSWEEK, U.S. NEWS, etc. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. You can listen to it on your computer, as well as on many radio stations: go to http://www.endoftheline.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? (They have now provided me with program summaries, which I greatly appreciate!) --week of 4/7: Episode #96-119: In COULD IT BE A MIRACLE, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: A man fulfills a birthday wish to his wife even after he's died; Two young boys call on angels to scare the demons away from their apartment, a place once used for occult practices; A gas station attendant gives a lost couple directions. When they go back later, there is no gas station or attendant at the location; A man flatlines on an emergency room table and has an out of body experience; A voice saves a woman and her baby from injury during an earthquake; A boy's prayer is answered when his out of work Dad suddenly gets a job. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 3/31, a Bermuda Triangle story and one about a mysterious cave linked ot American Indians. --week of 4/6, a possessed woman wants revenge on her husband; a man is having visions of his missing wife...or is he? Saturday, April 5 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Here's the line-up: 5:00, The Amazing Randi, arch-skeptic; 5:30 PM, Jim Keith, expert on Black Helicopters (author of a couple of books* on the subject); 6:00, Jim Szimhart, cult specialist; 6:15, Dan Smith of the Unarians...they are expecting UFOs to arrive in a few years; 6:45, Dr. Richard Haines, a UFO researcher who does solid work, especially known for his work with airline pilots (author of a couple of books* as well); 7:00, Dr. Ed May of the Cognitive Science Laboratory, who worked with the CIA on their psychic research; 7:30, Joe Escamillo, who videos UFOs. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available. Brenda Roberts produces. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE MISSING APEMEN (hairy bipeds are reported from Nepal to Northern California) Sunday, April 6 THE LEARNING CHANNEL has a block of shows this afternoon on things which may or may not qualify as "weird" as we define it here...one at least does, it covers werewolves SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Glen Grant, author* of GHOSTLY ENCOUNTERS ON SUPERNATURAL HAWAII (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052):DELIBERATE DECEPTION (allegations by ex-military personnel of a cover-up of UFOs); A PSYCHIC'S VISION (Carol Everett); MAUSSON'S MISSION (Jaime Maussson, expert on UFOs in Latin America); HIGHWAY 666; SILENT INTRUDER UPDATE (more on a 1973 UFO sighting at a Georgia military base) 12:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ARE ALIENS TRYING TO CONTACT US? 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: (#4052):DELIBERATE DECEPTION (allegations by ex-military personnel of a cover-up of UFOs); A PSYCHIC'S VISION (Carol Everett); MAUSSON'S MISSION (Jaime Maussson, expert on UFOs in Latin America); HIGHWAY 666; SILENT INTRUDER UPDATE (more on a 1973 UFO sighting at a Georgia military base) Monday, April 7 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (seewebsite at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: ROSWELL (focusses on the autopsy film) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#9): MAGIC ON WHEELS (blindfolded driver...repeats every day on the freeway, apparently :) ); STARSTRUCK SPIRITS (Hollywood haunts); MY FAVORITE PLEIDIAN (man claims his father is an alien...gee, I know a lot of parents who think their =teenagers= are aliens...) 9:00 pm, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: ROSWELL (focusses on the autopsy film) Tuesday, April 8 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: ROSWELL (focusses on the autopsy film)area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#10) NOSTRADAMUS (the man who predicted the death of Henry II, the tragedy of Hitler, and the rise of Fox as the fourth network); UFO CONVENTION; INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE Wednesday, April 9 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#11):LIFE ON MARS, PSYCHIC DETECTIVE; DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) Thursday, April 10 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: FAKES OR PHENOMENA (sounds like the Piri Reis map, etc.) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#12): WALL OF VOODOO; ALIEN ARTISTS; MESSAGES IN THE CROPS 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: FAKES OR PHENOMENA (sounds like the Piri Reis map, etc.) Friday, April 11 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#13): CREATING THE ILLUSION; ON PINS AND NEEDLES (acupuncture); LOOKING FOR LOVE This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 The Meier Case: The Farmer and the Cosmonauts From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:27:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:54:50 -0500 Subject: The Meier Case: The Farmer and the Cosmonauts Posted with author's permission Published in The Unexplained Peter Brookesmith The Meier Case. The farmer and the cosmonauts Cousins of the human race dwell in the Pleiades star cluster - and a Swiss farmer is their confidant on Earth. Peter Brookesmith analyses his claims and the remarkably detailed photographs that back them up. Early one January afternoon in 1975, a Swiss farmer, Billy Meier, was out walking near his home at Hinwel, in Zurich canton. He looked across the empty road to the meadow opposite and reflected on how remote this stretch of countryside was. Just then, however, he realised that he was not alone: a peculiar hum filled the air. He looked up and saw a classic UFO - a silver disc-shaped craft - circling slowly above him. By unusual good fortune Billy Meier was carrying a camera. He managed to take a number of pictures of the craft before it "swooped down" and landed about 300 feet (100 metres) away from him. He judged it to be about 23 feet (7 metres) in diameter. He began to run towards it, but was stopped by "an unknown force" some 150 feet (50 metres) from the craft. Then, as Meier looked on amazed, a figure appeared from behind the grounded disc and approached him. So began the first of more than 100 meetings with cosmonauts from the Pleiades star cluster. In the course of them Meier took some 3000 pages of notes and hundreds of photographs. From his experience came a book: "UFO . . . contact from the Pleiades". And the whole strange business set off a major controversy among ufologists. Meier's story was first investigated - and publicised - by Wendelle Stevens, a retired USAF colonel living in Tucson, Arizona. According to Stevens he first heard of the Meier contacts through a niece of the psychologist C.G. Jung, with whom he had been swapping pictures of UFOs for some years. (Stevens is said to have one of the largest collections of UFO photographs in the world.) In 1975 she learned about Meier's pictures, taken only some 35 miles (55 kilometres) from her home, and went to visit Meier. Stevens says that she met eight other witnesses to the Pleiadean contacts during her two-day stay and collected more pictures. Copies of these were sent to Stevens, and in due course the lady arrived in Tucson to see him, bringing some 16 more photographs with her. "The pictures were super fantastic. I had never seen anything like them before," said Stevens. A correspondence then grew up between Stevens and Meier, with Jung's niece acting as courier and translator. "This went on for eight or nine months before I decided I'd better go and look this guy in the eye. He was taking more and more pictures and they all looked really good." Not everyone who looks at Billy Meier's photographs is as impressed by them, but Stevens duly flew to London and went on to Switzerland by train. There he learned that Meier had begun having unusual and anomalous experiences at the age of five, when he saw a "large circular craft" fly over the local church. From about that time until the age of eight he heard voices in his head. Then a new voice took over and apparently acted as a guide - "tutoring" him, according to Stevens. Which was perhaps just as well, for Meier left school at the age of 12 to begin a life of odd-jobbing and oddity, which included car-racing, a short period in jail for thieving, a spell of service with the French Foreign Legion and a couple of years in an Indian ashram - followed by gainful employment in an Indian village as official snake catcher. He worked his way to Turkey, where he claimed to have acted as an informer for US drugsmuggling investigators and so paid his way back to Switzerland. Exodus in space. While in the ashram, Meier had started to hear voices again. This time they were female and said they were from "the Dal universe." While in India he also saw "spacecraft" once again and took photographs of them - as he also did, apparently, of his female "Dal" contact. These experiences with the Dals lasted some two years - until, Meier says, their mission to Earth was complete. Then, until 1975, there was silence. When the Pleiadeans came, there were three of them - Semjase, Ptaah and Asket - and two of them were distinctly female. They had much to tell him. Their home planet is called Erra, and it circles a small sun "in the system of Taygeta" in the Pleiades cluster. However, this was not their original home: their civilisation had reached great heights on a planet of a star in the constellation of Lyra millions of years previously, but had been unable to cope with its own technological prowess. Before this society finally tore itself apart in a thermonuclear war, a Lyran named Pleione led a mass exodus into space to colonise planets in the Pleiades, in the Hyades cluster and on a planet of the star Vega. Once the colonists were safely established, space exploration was renewed - bringing the Pleiadeans in due course to our own solar system, which they first reached some thousands of years ago. The cosmonauts told Meier that they reckoned their civilisation was 3000 years in advance of ours on Earth and that "our sector" of the Universe is governed by the "Andromeda Council." The Pleiadeans are also members of a union of planets whose inhabitants number 127 billion people - not superhumans "but men, like us, benefiting from greater time, and greater knowledge." The Pleiades is a group of stars in the constellation of Taurus. To the naked eye it appears to be made up of six or seven stars. The telescope reveals that these are part of a cluster of many hundreds of stars, 430 light years distant from the Earth. How then, did the cosmonauts ever reach us? According to them, the journey takes about seven hours and is made in a variety of craft. The barrier posed by the speed of light is broken by a "hyper-space drive system," and the ships equipped with it are known as "beamships." The hyper-space drive apparently works on a "tachyon system" (tachyons are hypothetical faster-than-light particles). Propulsion below the speed of light is effected by a light-emitting drive. When pressed for more details the cosmonauts told Meier that terrestrial scientists were working on similar systems, known by other names but using the same principles. Five types of craft are used by the Pleiadeans, four of which have an interplanetary capacity - and one of these also has a time-travel mode. The fifth type of craft is used solely for subatmospheric reconnaissance. So, what are the Pleiadeans doing here? And, perhaps a more intriguing question, why was it Billy Meier, a small-time farmer and one-time thief, that they chose to contact? According to the cosmonauts, their purpose was quite simply to make us aware of the existence of extra-terrestrial life - which was both human and non-human. Semjase, the elegant lady Pleiadean, put it like this in an early encounter: "We, too, are still far removed from perfection and have to evolve constantly, just like yourselves. Whe are neither superior nor superhuman, nor are we missionaries. . . . We feel duty-bound to the citizens of Earth, because our forefathers were your forefathers." Semjase did not reveal who those common ancestors were, nor was she entirely clear about the nature of the Pleiadean mission: "We have taken on certain tasks, such as, for example, the supervision of developing life in space, particularly human, and to ensure a certain measure of order. In the course of these duties we do here and there approach the denizens of various worlds, select some individuals and instruct them. This we do only when a race is in a stage of higher evolution. Then we explain (and prove) to them that they are not the only thinking beings in the universe." The Pleiadeans, however, in common with other aliens who have purportedly communicated with people on Earth, are not greatly impressed with the way we are managing our affairs. In the course of their contacts they let it be known to Meier that "in their opinion, we terrestrials were not capable of changing mass consciousness, that we were an insane society rushing headlong to our own destruction, that we were not only content with exterminating each other, but we now are bent on destroying all forms of life on this planet as well as the critical life support systems." Such a state of affairs once pertained when the Pleiadeans inhabited their home system in Lyra, of course: but unlike them, we do not take our world crisis seriously, and no one has made suitable preparations for escape from our doomed planet. Even so, the Pleiadeans refuse to interfere with our way of life or our power structure. We, and we alone, are responsible for our own destiny. This Zen-like combination of fierce moral comment and studied indifference is driven home by various quasi-mystical utterances by the cosmonauts. Some examples: "Man should know that the God force is quite simply that of creation, and that man also . . . is subject to creation and respectively complementary to it." "Material life on earth is only a passing event, a phenomenon vanishing after a time. However, before him and after him there continues to exist the creative presence of the universe." "When the spirit, this universal self, manifests itself in the human being through constant love, wisdom and truth, then a major breakthrough occurs in the surrounding self-veils which eliminates the physical-material urge of greed, anger, hate, avarice, war . . ." "And neither is it consistent with the truth that our brothers and sisters come from other parts of space on behalf of a God to bring to the world the long-awaited peace. In no case do we come on behalf of anybody, since creation, by itself, confers no obligation. It is a law unto itself, and every form of life must conform with it and become a part of it." Thus spoke Semjase, Pleiadean cosmonaut, to Billy Meier during 1975. But why was it Meier that was chosen? Wendelle Stevens believes he knows the answer: "They told him that they had been in contact with him before in other lifetimes." Such an idea might, of course, occur to someone who had spent two years listening to the kind of conversation that takes place daily in an ashram. But Meier's belief is a little more elaborate, according to Stevens's testimony: "They said that their ancestors had contacted him during prior incarnations on Earth. They told him that he was one of them who had been caught in an Earth evolution by his own choice several thousand years ago. Since his soul patterns were more akin to them it was registered in their computers. Supposedly, they could find him wherever he was. As he was one of them and familiar with their mission, his soul could understand ideas communicated to him better than our souls could." The Pleiadean computer, it will be noted, is obviously a remarkable piece of machinery, able to record "soul patterns." But then, it is not clear how material the cosmonauts are themselves. The delectable Semjase told Meier that when coming to Earth the Pleiadeans "are forced into making a 'slight adjustment' which allows us to function properly within your dimensional world". Without such an "adjustment," no extra-terrestrial could make contact with people on Earth. It ensures "a correct state of mind and corresponds with the human vibrational pattern." This may (or may not) have something to do with the high level of spiritual development claimed by the Pleiadeans. Using their telepathic powers, they are apparently able to think in concert, "exercising their astute powers of purity of thought" to control their tendencies to discord and strife. Thus freed from bickering, their technology has flourished and so has their medicine, giving the Pleiadeans an average life expectancy of 1000 years. Despite these talents, Meier observed, the cosmonauts spoke in an oddly accented form of Swiss-German. The remarkable nature of the Pleiadean computer is seemingly responsible, as Semjase explained: "We are in possession of all Earth languages which are spoken at the moment or have ever been spoken in past ages. We have exact data on them from which we have developed language courses. This happens through computer-like apparatus under the supervision of language experts . . . Other types of apparatus may serve to connect us to the 'computer' in such a way to make it virtually possible for the languages to be inspired into us . . ." Such a process, it seems, is still unable to induce a perfect accent. And the question is still unresolved as to quite what the Pleiadeans expected Meier to do with all this information - unless they foresaw his contact with Colonel Stevens and the resulting publicity. Once familiar with the outlines of the case, Stevens certainly lost no time in gathering the evidence: photographs, metal samples given Meier by the cosmonauts, physical traces of the landings, film, tape recordings, computer analysis of pictures, statements from other witnesses, all gathered in a total of 62 days spent with Meier in Switzerland. But what is the significance of that investigation? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Captions Three "Pleiadean spacecraft" hover above the Swiss countryside in one of the innumerable sightings claimed by Billy Meier. They have supposedly travelled more than 400 light years to reach the Earth. But they employ a technology so advanced that "fractions of seconds are sufficient to accomplish light years ..." Right: Billy Meier had a chequered history even before the Pleiadeans made their alleged contacts with him. It included periods in jail, in the French Foreign Legion and in an Indian ashram. In a former life, he was told, he was a Pleiadean. Above: this is one of the Pleidean spacecraft types that are capable of interstellar flight, according to Meier. This photograph, lacking ground features or other context, offers few clues to the sceptical analyst trying to judge its authenticity. Left: a Pleiadean spacecraft is just visible beyond Meier's moped in this shot. Time and again he would tour the countryside on the moped in response to strange impulses that were reliable signs of an imminent encounter with the Pleiadeans. Below: Semjase, the lovely Pleidean cosmonaut, had no difficulty, apparently, in communicating with Meier. She and her fellow space travellers were telepathic, and understood his questions before he spoke. Nevertheless, their replies to him were spoken, and were in an oddly accented dialect of Swiss-German. The Pleiadean spacecraft. Billy Meier's photographs show five different types of alleged spacecraft, the functions of which were described to him by Semjase. The first four can travel across interstellar distances by means of a device that transports ship and crew "in a twinkling of an eye through uncounted light years of distance as we understand it." A second propulsion system permits travel below the speed of light in the neighbourhood of planets. Artificial gravity can be provided. These craft are 23 feet (7 metres) in diameter, and can be crewed up by to seven cosmonauts, though the usual number is three. Semjase explained that "our spaceships are protected by a screen of energy which automatically rejects any kind of resistance and every bit of matter . . ." Interstellar flight calls for transitions through higher dimensions: "If a spaceship breaks through the barrier of light velocity without reaching hyper-space instantly, a catastrophe is due for ship and crew." The fifth type of craft is made in two versions, 12 feet (3.5 metres) and 16 feet (5 metres) in diameter respectively. Used to gather data, they are normally remotely controlled, though the larger models can carry one person. They can be used only in planetary atmospheres. Pleiadean spacecraft are constantly being developed and improved. Type I was superseded after centuries of use because of "radiation leakage problems." Above: a fleet of spaceships photographed by Meier in February 1975. He claims to have witnessed them making occasional instantaneous "jumps" from place to place. Below: a swirl of grass said to have been formed by a spacecraft's landing gear. UFOs in the sunset. Two photographs taken within a short time of each other, showing "spacecraft" of two different types manoeuvring over Meier's farm, visible in the background (below left). To seasoned ufologists, pictures as spectacular as this seem "too good to be true," but Colonel Wendelle Stevens rapidly became convinced of their authenticity and has staunchly defended them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 The Meier Case: A Mass of Contradictions From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:27:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:55:44 -0500 Subject: The Meier Case: A Mass of Contradictions Posted with author's permission Published in The Unexplained=20 Peter Brookesmith The Meier Case. A mass of contradictions. Billy Meier's tales of meetings with space people are not marked by restraint. This chapter recounts more of these amazing claims - and describes the intellectual contortions of Meier's supporters. Swiss farmer Billy Meier's claim to have had over 130 meetings with cosmonauts from the Pleiades star cluster between 1975 and 1978 is perhaps the most elaborately documented contactee case in the literature of ufology. For Meier supported his story not only with a mass of photographs but with samples of metal allegedly given him by the Pleiadeans, with tape recordings of their craft in flight, and, according to Colonel Wendelle Stevens (who first investigated the affair), produced other witnesses to the remarkable events that he described. All this evidence was, Stevens says, subjected to rigorous scientific testing - and was passed as authentic. The results of Stevens's investigation were published in the United States in 1979 in a lavish book called "UFO . . . contact from the Pleiades". Material that has surfaced since then, together with further revelations by the seemingly irrepressible Billy Meier, may lead one to wonder just what Meier's purpose is in all this. For his story has now become so bizarre that even the most gullible devotee of the extra-terrestrial hypothesis ought to be feeling just the teeniest twinges of doubt. And that is without knowing the results of the independent scientific tests of the evidence that have been carried out. The most startling of Meier's later claims is to have been taken in one of the Pleiadean spacecraft (known as Variation Type-4, apparently) on a journey through time. On this trip, says Meier, he went back to the age of the dinosaurs and photographed them; he also visited Jesus Christ, who was so impressed with Meier that he appointed him a disciple. Meier says he returned to this day and age in order to avoid being crucified. He also claims to have visited other planets, to have photographed the link-up between the Apollo and Soyuz spacecraft as he flew by (odd that neither NASA nor the Russians seemed aware of the Pleiadeans flitting past), and, most extravagant of all, to have taken a photograph of the eye of God. Meier also was taken into the future by the Pleiadeans to see San Francisco come to a sticky end, sinking into the bay as the San Andreas fault at last produced its much-heralded catastrophe. These tales have naturally attracted some laughter, and Meier's response to his critics have scarcely helped his case. When asked why he failed to photograph both eyes of God, for example, he replied that the other was closed: the Lord was winking at his companion (who was, needless to say, the shapely Pleiadean Semjase). Other "evidence" is so peculiar as to need no comment - such as the photograph of a pterodactyl that shows a pyramid in the background! As Meier's defenders - mainly the group known as Genesis III, who published Colonel Stevens's book on the Meier case - have attempted to come to the rescue, they too have fallen into confusion and contradiction. Or perhaps worse. The chief critic of the Meier case has been Kal Korff, and the title of his book on the subject sums up his attitude more than adequately: "The most infamous hoax in ufology". One instance of self-contradiction on the part of Meier and his defenders concerns a sequence of photographs purporting to show a Pleiadean spacecraft circling a tree. An unfortunate aspect of this series is that when independent investigators visited the site, no tree was to be found. Meier's explanation for this was that the spacecraft had subsequently disintegrated the hapless arboreal specimen. When taxed with the same question, Wendelle Stevens told Korff that the tree vanished because it had been teleported into "another time frame." Kal Korff's suspicion is that neither of these things happened, since a close look at the pictures - reputedly taken within a few seconds of one another - reveals markedly different cloud patterns from frame to frame. Genesis III's claim that the day in question was particularly windy is not borne out by the weather record, which shows wind speeds reaching a maximum of 15 miles per hour (25 km/h). Korff reasons that a model UFO and model tree were superimposed on pictures of the site. And indeed models of the Pleiadean craft have been found on the Meier farm - though Meier says that they were inspired by his actual encounters. Possibly the least plausible of Meier's defenders is Jim Dilettoso, of Genesis III. Kal Korff prints a long interview with him (and dismantles most of his statements) in which he says that in the 1950s Wendelle Stevens and another ufologist, Richard Miller, performed something called "transchannelling" on aliens for the US Air force: "They would fly up to Alaska because they were told that the magnetic fields there were proper for resonance induction, and we have hundreds and hundreds of audio recordings of Richard and other CIA officers doing transchanneling of aliens . . . Two of those CIA officers . . . have developed serious personality aberrations." Asked why, Dilettoso replied: ". . . it seems like something consistent in people that do channeling . . . that their cell-salt structures change, and they develop diabetes. There's also studies done that the last two Popes developed diabetes, as do a lot of Eastern gurus. So what's the correlation between transchanneling and cell-salts and diabetes, then diabetes going unchecked, developing into other neurotic and schizophrenic . . . behaviors that usually show up as olfactory and motor sense disturbances like Parkinson's disease. It's not where they become schizophrenic where their thinking is impaired, but where their body reactions are affected, and Billy [Meier] shows signs of that also . . But that seems consistent in the, oh . . . some thousand contactee cases that are being studied. In that the vibrating field put out by the ship and by the beings themselves dominates the aura, the magnetic field that can be kirlian photographed, dominates it so much, that it appears to even get down and start reprogramming the DNA." One may be forgiven for suspecting that Stevens, and his associates who make up Genesis III, did start by believing Meier and accepting his evidence at face value. Then, embarrassed by the jeers, laughter and protests of more painstaking ufologists, they were forced into defending their lost cause. Meier, however, has simply continued to make ever more extravagant comments - not, perhaps, without a certain impish humour - which Genesis II have tumbled over themselves to make respectable. The results, after the fashion of tumbling, bear a close resemblance to slapstick, however. The paucity of photographs of the Pleiadeans themselves is explained by Wendelle Stevens thus: "They are afraid of being hurt . . . they do not want to be recognized. Supposedly, they do walk the streets in Europe and don't wish to be compromised." Billy Meier, on the other hand, has happily admitted the strong resemblance between Semjase and his own girlfriend - so who is really worried about being recognized on the streets of Europe? Less edifying are the claims made by Meier and Genesis III concerning the samples of metal and crystal given Meier by the Pleiadeans as examples of their technological wizardry. Meier actually produced these while Stevens and his team were in Schwitzerland. They called on him one morning and were told that he had had his 105th contact during the night and "had a surprise" for the investigators. This turned out to be a package, handed over by the cosmonaut Quetzal, of four metal, one biological and nine mineral and crystal specimens. According to the book, the scientists who conducted "indepth, highly sophisticated examination" of these samples found them to have unique qualities and said they had "never seen anything like it before." The level of purity in the metal was "not immediately explainable" while the general characteristics "seemed to indicate a non-electrolytic, cold fusion synthesis process not generally known to earth technology." Kal Korff found rather less to be excited about. He interviewed Dr Marcel Vogel, who had analysed the samples for Genesis III - and had drawn rather different conclusions from those published in the book. Only the first sample was unique, said Dr Vogel, consisting of aluminium, silver and thulium, each having a high degree of purity. The other samples were ordinary crystals of quartz, citrine, amethyst and silver solder, and there is no reason to believe they are of extra-terrestrial origin. Jim Dilettoso characteristically failed to further the cause by claiming that Genesis III hold a 10-hour videotape of "the entire lab proceedings" (which Dr Vogel denies having made). "And," Dilettoso incautiously persisted, "we have about an hour of him discussing why the metal samples are not possible in earth technology, going into intrinsic detail of why it is not done anywhere on earth, that type of chemistry." Of course, Dr Vogel may not be the only scientist to have analysed the samples (no mention is made by either party of the biological specimen), but then Genesis III are notably coy about naming any of the 200 scientists they say have verified Meier's remarkable story. They are no less reticent about the numerous witnesses who, they say, saw - and in some cases photographed - the Pleiadean craft skimming around the Swiss valleys. No other photographs have surfaced, none are printed in the book, and none of these other witnesses are named. The best the book offers is a number of photographs of unidentified people sitting around Billy Meier's dining table and the assertion that tapes of conversations with the witnesses were subjected to psychological stress evaluation (PSE). The pictures by themselves prove absolutely nothing, while PSE is a notoriously unreliable method of lie detection, despite Genesis III's talk of "special computers standing by in northern California" to perform the analysis. Genesis III do not mention any analysis of the notes made by Meier of his contacts with the Pleiadeans. But Jim Lorenzen of APRO quotes Dr James Hurtak, a language specialist who has taken the opportunity to read most of the 3000 pages of the "Semjase correspondence" in the original German. "The linguistic use of Egyptian-Aramaic and Egyptian-Hebrew names . . . is 'latterday patchwork'," he says. "All this shifting play of correspondences by which everything . . . is cheated of its individual logic creates a mood of pensive jesting . . . and even sublime travesty. By all the standards of genuine 'ancient knowledge' . . . this civilisation which lays claim to being 3000 years into the future has not offered much in the way of a quantum jump over what our ancestors had 5000 years ago (in the way of intellectual transformation)." "The aliens gave Meier the most sought after prize of all - wisdom," remarks Kal Korff, adding: "It was very basic wisdom indeed." Certainly, reading through the pronouncements on life, the Universe and everything that Semjase condescended to give Meier, one is=20 embarrassed by their halt-familier triviality. But of all the evidence produced by Meier, none is as controversial as his photographs of Pleiadean spacecraft. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Captions Right: a Pleiadean craft, enabled to make its rendezvous with Meier by detecting his "brain wave patterns." According to the Pleiadeans, this process "normally enables our computer/auto-pilot to direct our beam ship to the exact location without interference." Below: one of the outmoded Variation Type-1 spacecraft. Above: a spacecraft circles a tree in the sequence shot by Meier. In other frames, the tree's top is alleged to move, owing to the "force" of the craft. But according to hostile photographic analysts, the pictures are the result of superimposing the UFO and tree images onto the background sequence. The cloud patterns could not have changed so much, they say, in the short time that the UFO was allegedly circling the tree. A spacecraft hovers in the distant sky beyond the tripod-mounted camera. The telepathic promptings that Meier received before each encounter enabled him to come to it well-prepared with such photographic equipment as he possessed - which, however, was somewhat inadequate to the world-shaking nature of these events. The seven sisters. The Pleiades (left), the star cluster that is the home of the space people with whom Billy Meier claims to meet so regularly. The haze of gas and dust indicates the comparative youth of the cluster, for as the group matures the interstellar matter will disperse. The few hundred stars of the cluster were born together a mere 60 million years ago - by contrast with the 5000 million years of the Sun's existence to date. This time is too short to have permitted the formation of any planets, or the appearance of indigenous life. According to Meier, the space people migrated to the Pleiades from their original home in the constellation of Lyra. But how do they survive there? Is Erra, their supposed home, an artificial planet constructed by the migrants? The Pleiades of Greek myth were seven sisters, named Alcyone, Asterope, Electra, Celaeno, Maia, Merope and Taygeta. They were daughters of Atlas and Pleione. As it happens, the leader of the migration from Lyra was called Pleione, according to Meier. Was the mythical name a faint memory of the space traveller? Or was the space traveller's name suggested to Meier by the half-remembered mythical name? Above: witnesses pose for Meier's camera - seemingly too blas=E9 about spacecraft to heed the hovering disc. Below: the fortunate Meier merits visits by whole squadrons of spacecraft. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 The Meier Case: The Camera Never Lies? From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:27:54 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:56:43 -0500 Subject: The Meier Case: The Camera Never Lies? Posted with author's permission Published in The Unexplained Peter Brookesmith The Meier Case. The camera never lies? Massive scientific expertise has vindicated Billy Meier's spacecraft photographs, according to his supporters. These claims however should be pitted against the rather different conclusions of skilled ufologists. The photographs taken by "Billy" Meier of Pleiadean spacecraft as they flew around the valleys near Hinwel, Switzerland, are among the most striking UFO pictures ever published. They are so striking that they evoke that paradoxical response: too good to be true. But after a while one realises, looking at these elegant productions, that one's instinct has backed away from them for a less cynical reason: the pictures simply don't fit with one's sense of light and shade as seen in the real world. They are visually disjointed, offending one's sense of balance, clashing with one's memory of how things look. Then, on a closer look, certain patterns in the pictures emerge - and certain suspicions are aroused. Is it coincidence, for example, that so many pictures of the same craft seem to show the flying disc at exactly the same angle to the camera, despite the very different locations and times of day at which the pictures were supposedly taken? Why do the reflections and shadows on the Pleiadean spaceships appear the same, too, despite the various backgrounds? Why are the undersides of the craft always so dark - as they would be if they were models, say, close to the camera? Why does only one picture, of extremely low quality, exist of a landed disc? Is there any significance in the massive preponderance of shots in which the craft are shown against a clear, light sky - the best type of background on which to superimpose a UFO image? Wendelle Stevens and Genesis III - whom it seems fair to call both investigators and publicists of the Meier case - have their own answers to some of these questions. In an interview with the ufologist Timothy Green Beckley, Wendelle Stevens rather disarmingly remarked: "First of all, photographs are poor evidence because there are so many things that we can do technically to produce images. However, there are also so many ways we can detect a hoax. We can tell if we are dealing with superimposed overlays, reflected images, double exposures. We can tell by looking through special microscopes and searching for grain density and grain patterns. We can pretty much tell if an object has been thrown into the air or suspended by something in the air." And in keeping with that scepticism, the book published by Genesis III, "UFO . . . contact from the Pleiades", shows computer-processed versions of the photographs that appear to validate their authenticity. It is when Wendelle Stevens starts to explain some of the computer enhancements that the reader's credulity is stretched. Says the Colonel: "We can [analyse photographs] with a computer by studying the edges around any given object. In high magnification an edge is seen as a series of shock waves. There is a special formula for the spacing of these shock waves that make up the edge. How strong they are, how far apart they are, will tell you how far apart that edge of the object is from the camera. If the body is in motion, the shock waves are compressed on the leading edge, and expand on the trailing edge." In fact, nothing of the kind happens. What this particular computer process does is enhance the picture contrast in areas where the image brightness varies - especially at the edges of features, making it possible to make judgements about how far the object photographed is from the camera. In some cases, it is possible to intensify otherwise hard-to-detect strings or supports attached to the object. This has nothing whatever to do with shock waves, though Stevens has repeated the idea more than once. In Genesis III's book, the 12 or so pictures purporting to show analytic enhancements of Meier's pictures are accompanied by details of the various tests to which the photographs were subjected. It is claimed that the computer enhancements showed how the light values of the landscape are consistent with those on the bottom of the craft. Supposedly, the test eliminates double exposure or "paste-ups" - splicing images from two different transparencies together. So far, perhaps, so good. The name of a reputable computer systems company, De Anza Systems, appears on the edge of one frame. Kal Korff took the simple step of asking Mr Wayne Heppler, manager of De Anza Systems, if an analysis had been performed for Genesis III. Replied the honest Mr Heppler: "What these guys did was come down to De Anza Systems claiming that they wanted to buy a computer from us. So we took one of their pictures, one showing the UFO, and enhanced it to make certain parts of the picture stand out. Then they took pictures of it, left, and stated they would get back in touch with us. And we haven't heard from them since." Korff then asked if De Anza had the technical capability to analyse the pictures. The answer: "No. We are in no position to do an analysis." At a lecture at the UFO '80 Symposium held in Oakland, California, in August 1980, Jim Dilettoso of Genesis III said that "z-scale contouring" and "edge identification" tests were run on the pictures. The only drawback to this is that these are simply colour contouring techniques (and can be used to analyse the "density" at each point of an image - its lightness or darkness). They are not light distortion tests, such as edge enhancement, which might reveal the information Genesis III claim to have gained by the techniques. Dilettoso also (perhaps rather rashly) took exception to a Ground Saucer Watch (GSW) colour contouring of one of the Meier pictures. This shows a similar level of light reflectivity on both the ground and the Pleiadean spacecraft - indicating that something is wrong with the photographs, since the materials, at the claimed distances, should reflect (and so colour contour) differently. Dilettoso's objection was unfortunate, since even Genesis III's computer-generated picture shows both the craft and its background in the same colour contour. It did so, Kal Korff discovered, for reasons that could prove nothing about the authenticity of Billy Meier's photographs. According to Ken Dimwiddie, one of the technicians at De Anza Systems, who was present when Dilettoso appeared in the guise of a prospective customer, it was Dilettoso himself who assigned the colours on the computer's read-out screen. In other words, the colours may indicate almost anything about the actual qualities of the original photograph. They have little value except to satisfy Jim Dilettoso's aesthetic fancy. Computer-aided analyses of the Meier pictures by Ground Saucer Watch, however, are devastating by comparison. They inspired two GSW researchers, Fred Adrian and William Spaulding, to describe them as "hoaxes, both crude and grandiose." Even without the aid of computer enhancement the photographs are dubious. Shadows on the Pleiadean craft do not conform to the light in the landscape, and the sharpness of the UFO images indicates that the object shown is extremely close to the camera - as a model would be. (GSW's estimate is that the various "spaceships" are, in fact, between 8 and 12 inches [20 and 30 centimetres] in diameter.) Fuzziness that would result from atmospheric effects is often lacking. Where the images are more consistent with expectations, one is still left baffled by the testimony of Meier himself. Despite his constant contacts and the priceless photographic evidence he was gathering on behalf of mankind, Meier never bothered to repair or replace his allegedly broken camera, whose lens was stuck, focused at infinity. Yet different focusings do seem to have been achieved - resulting in "distant" objects coming out as suitably fuzzy. But then the testimony concerning Meier and his photographic techniques occasionally leaves the disinterested enquirer gasping. It should be pointed out that Billy Meier lost his left arm in an accident, which one would expect to make for difficulties with a camera. Wendelle Stevens nevertheless has made the startling claim that Meier shot all his pictures from the hip, because the mirror in his camera had "jammed closed" as well. And yet he manages to centre his UFOs in every frame with amazing precision. Jim Dilettoso also says that a professional photographic expert claimed he would need "a million dollars" to duplicate the Meier pictures. Less excitably, Wendelle Stevens attempts to debunk the claims that the UFOs are models by asking: "How many models can a one-armed man carry on a moped when he is driving with the only arm he's got?" One might reply: "As many as will fit in a bag." So, what is one to make of the Meier case? Certainly, the material evidence is anything but convincing, and the tales told by Meier have (as GSW have pointed out) all the hallmarks of American George Adamski's extravaganzas, updated and technically sophisticated for a more demanding age. It is disheartening to learn that Stevens received an invitation to present his case to the House of Lords UFO Committee, who should have known better than to invite him in the first place. Genesis III come out of the affair in greater embarrassment than Meier, who, after all, is apparently renowned for being "a sort of person who gets great satisfaction out of fooling the authorities." Genesis III have published some remarkable claims on behalf of Meier, yet none of those claims has been validated by independent research. Wendelle Stevens may attempt to disarm the ufologist Jim Lorenzen by saying: "As you well know, Jim, the book was never designed to present any hard facts," yet it gives every impression of doing just that. As for Meier himself, it is possible that some subjective experience lies behind the discredited material evidence. If the stories of voices in the head, going for rides in "pear-shaped UFOs" with "a very old man" at the age of five, and the sightings he had from a very early age are anything to go by, this may be the best explanation. In which case, the model spacecraft (whose existence Meier doesn't deny) may well have been constructed as a result of an actual series of contactee experiences, however unlikely it is that these represent an attempt by any Pleiadeans to get in touch with us on Earth. If so, then Billy Meier has unfortunately allowed his experience to be turned by others into something like an industry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Captions A Type-4 spacecraft over Mount Auruti, Switzerland, photographed by Billy Meier on 29 March 1976 (above). Two computer-enhanced images made from this photograph (above right) reveal a great deal about this picture. The left-hand image shows, in the words of Ground Saucer Watch who made the computer analyses, "evidence of a linear structure" above the craft - in plain English, a string or a thin rod supporting the object. The structure is equally clear in the computerised enlargement in the second image. In addition, study of the focus in this picture indicates that the object is close to the camera and is therefore small - about 8 inches (20 centimetres) across, not 23 feet (7 metres) as claimed. William H. Spaulding, Director of the Western Division of Ground Saucer Watch (GSW), at the console of the image-processing computer with which GSW analyse UFO photographs. GSW's verdict on the Meier pictures that they studied: "total hoaxes." This photograph (left) was taken within a few minutes of the one on the previous page. The craft is said to be hovering beyond the tree, which is about 165 feet (50 metres) away. Two computer-processed versions appear opposite. The edge enhancement on the left revealed, according to GSW, inconsistencies between the shadows on the disc and on the tree. This suggests that the UFO and the landscape have been superimposed. The colour-contouring image on the right suggested to GSW that the UFO image was actually superimposed on top of the tree image, as if the UFO were closer than the tree - "indicating very sloppy work," in Kal Korff's words. Below: this picture, from a scorched negative found in Meier's barn, was never intended by him to be published. It shows, unmistakably, a model spacecraft on a table-top. Meier admitted that he possessed models of the Pleiadean craft - made by his children from his descriptions, he insisted. Below right: Billy Meier kneels between Wendelle Stevens (writing) and Lee Elders, co-author of "UFO . . . contact from the Pleiades". The child is Meier's youngest son. Left: Meier reported that these discs were photographed about 1 1/2 hours after the one seen above and on the previous pages. GSW found that the focus on the discs is much sharper than on the trees, showing that the discs are much closer. Again, there is evidence that the UFO images were superimposed on the landscape picture. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Intelligence, Tar and History From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:52:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:20:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence, Tar and History > Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 15:46:06 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Intelligence, Tar and History > > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 03:58:34 -0500 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Intelligence, tar and history > > > From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> > > > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:19:00 -0500 (EST) > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale > > > >Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American > > > >intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this > > > >connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This > > > >association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC > > > >web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. > > > > Gary > > > For crying out loud, this is a ridiculout allegation thrown around the UF O > > > community with too much abandon. It is one evidence of "arrival" to be > > > called an intelligence agent. Everyone in the UFO community has been > > > tarred with this brush, so everyone is an intelligence agent. Let's rein i n > > > the paranoia people. > > > KRandle > Amen, Kevin, calling everyone an intelligence agent and I never called EVERYONE an intelligence agent, I only described how Kal Koroff, a government employee, stated that he had "consulted" for unamed agencies of our government on "anti-terrorism". I stated that he might have ties to intelligence agencies - could that be the Federal Sanitation Agency, yes if they are conducting anti-terrorism operations. The reader should draw their own conclusion. > implying sinister motives is a way of putting aside what they > have to say. There is nothing sinster implied by me. Intelligence is an honorable profession aside from its common recognition as the second oldest one. What I found annoying was his bumbling concealment - I'd give him a F in the tradecraft course on establishing a cover. > I have said a number of times ufologists all need > at least one book on logic and one on critical thinking in their > libraries. If such books were read and used by ufologists, > there were not be this morass of twisted thinking in the field. Yes, but to that I would add several books on political history, the history and organization of both domestic and foreign military and intelligence organizations, intelligence tradecraft, case studies of intelligence operations both failed and successful. > Sorry, Gary, but I am going after you on a lot of these topics > which seem to be articles of faith with today's ufologist. Hey, if you need to use me as an excuse to get something off your chest that I didn't bring up I don't mind. As long as its at my expense, why subject anyone else to this.] > Gary's contentions below are mild compared to some, What were those contentions? Who are the nameless strawmen I am being compared to? > but unfortunately they represent a trend. You flatter me, I never considered myself a trendsetter. > Let's not study UFOs. I never said that. > Let's study government involvement. I never said that either. I just added a sidebar to an ongoing conversation between two other individuals discussing Billy Meier, who were commenting on Kal Koroff's role in investigating Billy Meier. I merely added to the conversation my own FIRST hand information regarding MY OWN interaction with Koroff conducted in a public online internet chat held by MSNBC. > Everyone can become a junior James Bond. But when we study this government > involvement let's make darn sure we don't go anywhere near > primary sources. Get your facts from third hand sources. WRONG - you are creating a fiction here - see the above. > Sometime ago when this list raged with a debate how Top > Secret material was handled, I offered to copy a regulation > for those who wished to know about the procedures. Guess how > many takers I got: Zero. It was more fun to speculate or go to > someone's book or listen to someone who might have had a Top > Secret clearance once--although he really wasn't sure if he > did or not. RIGHT - I have noticed this too, research is tough and time consuming, opinions are fun and fast. > > You should be asking for the facts rather than stating that I would make > > a ridiculous allegation. I don't care if Kal Karloff arrives or not. > > I have never considered anyones' association with the intelligence > > community to being equivalent to being "tarred with a brush". > This is at least a start. However, what do terms like > "intelligence community" mean? A monolithic structure > of some kind. We have the CIA, intelligence in each branch > of the military, so why did we need DIA? I know and I assume you know too, but for those who are late to the thread you can quickly brushup on the terminology by pointing your web browsers to following web link http://www.odci.gov Curiously this is called the Intelligence Community Homepage created by non-other than the Office of the Director of Central Intelligence. So I guess if he can call it a "community" so can I. Spend many hours following as many links as you can consume, it used to take a great deal of library research to accomplish what you can find with those mouse clicks. In the good old days we used to turn pages (that was back when men were men, and women were women - they turned pages too!) Why you chose to bring up the DIA here could be beyond me but if you need to find out more about its genesis and early organization as drawn on from public sources I can refer you to The Intelligence Establishment by Harry Howe Ransom, 1970 Harvard Press, pp 103-108.] > For years counter-intelligence was in a shambles. The reason > that so many of these people like Aldrich Ames are being caught > is that about five years ago improvement were made to > counterintelligence. They are just now paying off. Look at > how easy it was for Ames and others evaded safeguards for > years. Sure convinces me that the intelligence "community" > knows what they are doing. The great coups like the Fall of > the Wall and the Collaspe of the USSR are more evidence for an > all-seeing intelligence community. If they saw it, why didn't > they tell the political leaders. Huh, I certainly don't understand how this relates to what I said. If you are still concerned about the term community take it up with the DCI. Maybe Peterbrooksmith can coin another term for community? I don't know, ask him. Lets just call them the "c" people for now. > > What I am interested in knowing is about the background of individuals > > writing and or promoting material in this field so I can better > > understand the players, their roles, the phenomenon and its history. > > As you are well aware the intelligence community - as demonstrated > > through historical documents obtained through declasssification process > > and the FOIA process has had a long and continual history of > > investigating the UFO phenomenon both through open domestic and foreign > > sources as well as covertly through human and technical means of > > survellance. > Yes, and these UFO documents are very small part of the > actual number of documents. However, if you get a book > that is on nothing but UFOs, it does seem overwhelming. I am not overwhelmed, are you? > Go to the National Archives where much raw intelligence > is stored. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack > to find something on UFOs. Oh, yes, when you concentrate > the UFO material, it does looks impressive, but compared to > the intelligence production of some small secitons like, > US Military Liaison Mission in East Germany, it is nothing. I don't think the volume of UFO material is impressive either just interesting, what are you driving at here? > > This is not a ridiculous allegation and here are the facts of the matter: > > MSNBC held a online, public, internet chat for the promotion of > > Kal Koroff's book which essentially debunks the idea that what took > > place at Roswell was the crash of an extraterrestial craft. > > This event was promoted on the internet and on MSNBC television. > > (Hey, the guy has a good publicist). My guess as to the number of > > questioners was 10-15, with an unkown number of listeners. I know of > > another indivdual who I believe receives this mailing list that > > was also a participant in this public, online chat. > > During this public event I inquired as to whether > > Kal Koroff had served in the military or intelligence > > community in any capacity. He evaded > > this question after being asked it several times and > > responded that -like many people who work at LANL > > (Lawrence Livermore Laboratories) he > > had a security clearance. Again I asked several times > > whether he had served in the military or intelligence > > community and when a couple of other people also inquired > > he responsed that he had never served in the > > military and ignored the question about serving in > > the intelligence community. > > Then many other people also inquired whether or not he served/worked for > > the intelligence community. In fact so many people asked and wanted his > > answer that the online conference stopped on this point, with other > > people telling him to answer, stop being evasive or stop the chat. > > The people participating in the chat said he should not proceed until he > > answered the question. > Once again it is more interesting to know who this individual > is rather than what he might have to say. Maybe some of his > money came from CSICOP. So what? Do his arguments stand up to > examination? This seems the appropriate point at which to open those logic books. Mail list readers, read the above paragraph three times quickly and send your interpretations to me. If Koroff is not what he says he is then it seems to me that he could be a dissembler? Am I missing something? Lets leave CISCOP out of this as its is an emotional hotspot for many readers of ufology - how much can you confuse the issue here Jan by bringing in irrelevant topics - enough. There will be so many levels of greater than signs they will fill a line by themself. > > At this point he responded that he did consult for > >agencies of our government (which he would not name) > >in "anti-terrorism". > > It was also established at this conference that he had several > > people working for him doing his background > > research and that he was planning to establish a non-profit > > foundation to further his research. Also he > > stated that the funding for the research of his book came from > > "donations". He would not specify the names of organizations or > > individuals who had donated him funds. He also stated that he > > partially self funded his research. > And here I agree with Gary, why must Koff be > so evasive? My evaluation would be that the source > of his money may hurt his creditability with his target > audience. Otherwise, he maybe just a jerk. > Or perhaps he is a "disinformation agent," in which case > I will eat lots of crow....but I think not, because there > are not such animals as "disinformation agents." Back to tradecraft school for you Jan - like many other fields espionage has its own language and jargon. Disinformation is a tool which is used by people. Disinformation can be defined as carefully falsified information, usually containing at least an element of truth, designed to mislead or confuse. Shame on you for calling intelligence professional "animals", some of the trade terms for these hard working people who you would have us believe do not exist are the "a" people: Asset: a person enrolled by an intelligence service. Agent Provocateur: An asset, usually under control of a counterintelligence or police agency, assigned the job of infiltrating a organization and instigating acts designed to discredit that organization. Agent of Influence: An asset, usually in an important position, who is assigned the task of influencing policy, rather than collecting intelligence. Agent: A person (not an animal) in the pay of a nation's intelligence service on a regular, salaried basis, with the status of a government employee. > Seems to me Kroff could catagorize his donations without releasing an > sensitive individual's name, if that were necessary. > > Now let us digress: > > You know Kevin some of us have been around - have > >friends or family that have served in the intelligence community. > There is that magic phrase again. Take that terminology up with the Director of Intelligence, the President's appointee. What would have him call the group of agencies - the intelligence herd? the intelligence collective?(smacks of Dark Skies to me). > Maybe you should consider the intelligence failures of the last fifty years or so. Why should I dwell on their failures, I like these guys! BUT for those who like to gloat over the intelligence peoples (no "c" word here) failures look into these operations: CANDY - all that though research and we let the Russians snitch the A bomb plans; OPERATION Z - Pearl Harbor from the Japanese perspective, ouch this is painful. THE WALKER FAMILY(not not the Parsons) - we are betrayed from within, at least the Japanese were foreigners.] > Seems to me "the intelligence community" is more like a giant political > turf warfare battlefield than anything as cohesive as a "community." Maybe it's a politically correct term and that is why they use the "c" word. > > Imagine if we had to understand the history of WWII > > without knowing about Operations ULTRA, MAGIC, KONDOR, > > TRAMP, BODYGUARD, GRIFFIN, CANDY or CORNFLAKES. > Yes, and to hear the proponents tell it: they won the war. > So if we had ULTRA and knew everything, why did we have > Anzio, Salerno, the Battle of the Bulge, Leyte Gulf ("All > America wants to know: where are the fast battleships!?"), > and other excellent intelligence coups? I wouldn't be > seduced by these people who make wild claims about ULTRA > and other intelligence activities. Perhaps the Ultra people > did know everything. Perhaps the "green door," (ie obsessive > secrecy) got in the way. Or perhaps the muddle head command > staffs would not pay attention. > Or mostly likely: The intelligence people who *now* know > everything with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight were not as > sure of things when events were popping around them. Egads they have an ego, or is that politically incorrect? Yes the proponents are the ones who have usually won the war; those defeated are often dead or in internment camps unless of course they are sent to Canada and given pensions. Now I will reminded you that I earlier did say to read up on intelligence failures, for as a mentor of mine said its alright to make mistakes as long as you don't make the same mistake twice (provided of course you survive the first) extensive reading might help. > > Histories of WWII were written for many years without > > knowledge or understanding of the intelligence communities > > role. Many documents from WWII are still classified over > > 50 years later and may significantly change our understanding > > of that history. > > Not every former intelligence agent with an interest in the UFO > > phenomenon is a covert psych war agent serving as a disinformationalist. > Lots of good emotive terms here. Disinformationalist. That's why I picked them! > Opsec (Operational security) is one of the areas of poorest execution > for the military. How do you think the news media gets there > first? Well, when the Air Force goes to a third world country, > they book every luxury hotel room in the place. Makes it easy > for some stringer to alert the media. You mean we don't parachute into the jungles anymore? Makes me long for the days when "Wild" Bill Donovan set the style. > Psych warfare. Yes, let's remember the "Hearts and > Minds" campaign in the great US victory in Veit Nam. > The psyops material I have seen was not particular > impressive. Now Madison Avenue; that is impressive. > Of course, that is not called psych warfare, it's called > advertising. Most psyops training material makes the point > that you must stick to the truth. Logic 101: If an organization is not effective therefore it must not exist. Can't the intelligence organizations/groups/herds even be given credit for trying. God forbid if I mention their sucesses then well have an overblown ego problem! > Why did people in the East listen to the Voice of America? > Not because of the platitude it transmitted. Because the > East Bloc media lied about how cold the temperature was > outside in winter. Amazing how little things destroy or > enhance creditability. Maybe they turned on their tube radios to warm up the rooms. My tube amplifier warms up the room, maybe those easterners werent't such blockheads. > > However it has been documented that some members, > > active and former, of the Central Intelligence Agency worked in NICAP. > Well, that is easy Adm. Hillenkoetter was on the Board. > If you are talking about the Todd Ziechel's contribution > to history, you better take his ideas with a mountain of > salt. And, of course, COL Joseph Bryan, a psyops specialist > and the CIA'ers killed NICAP. Why did they not destroy > the files??? Files? the N Files, another digression perhaps; we are drifting here. > Perhaps if someone did a little digging before > all the major players are dead, they will find that Gordon > Lore goad the NICAP board into action against Major Keyhoe > because of the financially impossible situation. Of course, > when the Board did finally act, they did not find much of a > good odor about a disloyal subordinate like Lore. Worse yet, > he did not turn NICAP around financially. A interesting, possibly valid point for historians to delve into but not of particular interest to me. > I've seen letters from Dewey Fournet complaining about the amount > of time he was spending trying to get NICAP on a pay-as-you-go > footing. After being absolutely ruthless with those who had > a claim on NICAP, the Board was able to rid themselves of the > problem by turning it over the Acuff. So, NICAP went from > mismanagement under ufologists to mismanagement under a business > management company. Today, it is far easier to say the CIA > did them in than to look at declining public interest, > declining income, declining management, declining expertise. > Let's not do any research here; let's listen to hacks. Who is the hack here? Peter Brookesmith has described Donald Keyhoe as a "hack", is that who you are referring to? This history of NICAPs demise smacks of revisionism. Lets really go far afield - Perhaps you can offer a hypothesis to explain the absence of published scientific research on the UFO phenomenon between 1942 and 1952 that doesn't take into account those "c" people. Was Ruppelt wrong when he described how scientists were disuaded from following their curiosity? Did the Robertson report not outline how public opinion and domestic organizations (such as NICAP, APRO) were to be manipulated by those non-existent, ineffectual "c" people. > > It has also been documented that the APRO was mentioned in the Robertson > > report as an organization which should be watched. > > No doubt they were on someone's watch list. Watch list - grade A for appropriate use of "c" peoples terminology. And who might those someone's be? > > A worker in the APRO > > furnished information on the Lorenzens to an intelligence agency. > That is the interpretation of Lorenzens. And other people I might add. Consult with some field professionals, private investigators, read the books and compare to known histories of examples of infiltration of organizations. > If so, why did it not keep up with other agents. Who says the "c" peopel didn't. Practically speaking it is tough infiltrating an organization the same way twice, especially since that individual worked closely with the Lorenzens. Or perhaps the next agent didn't screwup and get detected or the Lorenzen's were placed under technical surveillance. > Lots of information was kept on a lot of people, and there were indeed major > abuses. What was the reason for pointing out APRO? Because they knew the > truth? No. Look at the Robertson recommendation again. Now you are asking rhetorical questions about APRO inorder to deflect my point that the "c" people really did do to what were called "Unofficial Investigating Groups". Here is the relevant section of the Robertson report: UNOFFICIAL INVESTIGATING GROUPS_ The Panel took cognizance of the existence of such groups as the "Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators" (Los Angeles) and the "Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (Wisconsin). It was believed that such organizations should be watched because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind. Now when the "c" people take "cognizance" of someone they just don't write your name on a piece of paper called a "watch list" and stare at it. This means for the watchee that they will be meeting the people on my earlier "A"'s list: assests, agent provocateur, agent of influence or just plain agent. In extremis the watchee's residence or business might be visited by a "black bag job" team which photographs and returns papers, concealing that they have been compromised. Or maybe just your friends and neighbors are interviewed etc, or electronic surveillance is introduced, etc. One objective of the Panel is to prevent the use of organizations like APRO by foreign intelligence agencies e.g. the KGB. The Panel also wanted to be able to control what mass thinking would be if "widespread sightings should occur" - in other words it didn't want Carol and Jim to be able to influence the publics' interpretation of sightings of UFOs. Control by the "c" people is certainly the agenda here as they do not defer to elected officials or organizations (besides those guys come and go). > > Intelligence agents questioned a WWII ace who saw flying > >objects weeks before Kenneth Arnold reported his famous sighting. > I think you may have your dates mixed up. You accuse me of something and then beg off. On top of that you digress about balloons - where have I seen this before? So let me make the point explicitly here. In June, 1947 famous pilot Richard Rankin saw 10 discs in a triangular formation over Bakersfield, California. This spectacular sighting got NO national press coverage even AFTER Arnold. But he was interviewed by Air Corps officers (the Air Corps had its own intelligence organization). > But even so, look at COL Friend's comments on the intelligence balloon > recovery teams that stayed in place after the Japanese > balloon bomb attack. I should hope that some one was > minding the store. I looked but have yet to find any evidence > of these little detactments mentioned by Friend. > > However, not everyone who has or has had a security > > clearance is a covert agent. > Well, I should hope so...considering some of the absolute > trash that is able to get security clearances. I know > because I helped revoke a number clearances for real > criminal types who should never have gotten one in the > first place. Good work. However, why always stress the screwups. I think the person who granted Sheridan Cavitt his clearance did his job well, it might not be one that historians appreciate however. > > Some people who have served in the military and intelligence > > services pursue their own interests which came before their > > active duty. > > I understand Kevin you investigated for APRO before you > > joined the Air Force. > And I investigated for NICAP and APRO while in the military. > I was also on the list of foreign representatives for APRO > when I served in Korea. The only activity I stopped when I > joined the military was corresponding with the Soviet ufologists. > > Some people who have served in the military and intelligence > > services pursue an interest in UFOs and extra-terrestrials that > > arose from their service and continue that interest after leaving > > active duty, the aerospace writer Martin Caidin who recently died > > is an example in this category. > My interest in UFO was there way before I joined up as were > many if you ask them. > > Raymond Fowler served in the military and intelligence services > > and has pursued active investigation of the UFO extraterrestrial > > phenomenon for many years. > > Are any of these people tarred, I think not. > > Contact with with an extraterrestrial civilization might well be the > > most momentous event of human history. Can we really imagine that the > > intelligence community won't be involved. > I can easily. It is not of strategic or tactical interest. > Especially, not to the Air Force. You mean if extraterrestrials do ever arrive you expect that they will just stay up in the air indefinitely flying around - does that mean they come under the jursdiction of the FAA, those watchdogs of the air. If our visitors ever stop flying around who should we have meet them, the Welcome Wagon? When you state that the arrival of an extra-terrestrial intelligence would "not be of strategic or tactical interest" it strikes me that something other than logic operating here. The entry about the Air Force is irrelevant. > > Are we to imagine that the > > SETI project which is attempting to make contact with > > extraterrestrials doesn't at least have a liason from the > > intelligence community. If they don't then I think I am > > not getting good use of my tax dollars. > Possibly, but even if they did--for what reason. Would > SETI find some Soviet device in space? That would, of > course, be of immediate interest. How many issues can you confuse at once by introducing parenthetical questions? > > The first goverment investigators on the scene at Roswell > > were both members of different organizations in the intelligence > > community and that's no coincidence! > Why not? I assume you are talking about CIC and military > intelligence. Yes those are the two organizations, two chains of command, checks and balances - read those "c" people books - you'll know why the 509th had both even though the men serving in the intelligence organizations were both from the same US of A. > Look at the FBI memo about being kept out of the loop. Irrelevant digression, so what, they are an intelligence agency they can fend for themselves, out in the intelligence "c" it's Darwinian.] > The FBI did a lot of the legwork in establishing the Fugo > Balloons and got little credit. The best early investigative > work in UFOs was by the FBI and not the bumbling military. > And then the FBI appeared to be cut out again. Yes, give credit where credit is due, particularly to the FBI because if Hoover wasn't so annoyed at being cut out we wouldn't have his tantalizing memos. > > It also seems to be one of few primary facts > > that all of the investigators agree on whether they think it was a > > weather balloon, Mogul balloon, extraterrestrial craft or over-runs from > > an aluminized mylar plant which just happened to drift into Mac Brazel's > > range. > > The history of the UFO phenomenon is not bereft of the > > influence of the intelligence community and that history > > is being made today and will be in the future. > If the Roswell Report is the best the military can do then > UFO believers should feel very comfortable. Weaver and > McAndrew missed a lot of obvious places to look--the SAC > Daily staff diary for one or the 8th Air Force A-2 files which > they could not seem to find or the search at Maxwell which > missed half the historical keywords in their computer search.... > Of course, I don't see much research going into likely > government records by ufologists....or into UFOs....there > is a lot of yarn spinning and speculation....not much > research....if that sound a little cynical....it should. > Cynicism, as someone once said, is the last refuge of an idealist. Do you really think Weaver and McAndrew were trying to do a comprehensive job? What agency did Weaver come from - ?could it be AFOSI, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, one must admire how they name their organizations, this is a counter-intelligence organization. Does anyone remember the role of the OPC, Office of Policy Coordination, now that's naming carried to a fine art. Did you look at the keywords the CIA used for their search for the GAO/Schiff report. They fulfilled the letter but not the spirit of the inquiry, the CIA was created by lawyers what else did you expect, and they are damn good at it too. > Best regards, > Jan Aldrich Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:57:56 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:06:50 -0500 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:34:30 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC's 20/20 report >I don't want to kick anyones sacred cow here, but I've been looking >for an email address for ABC's 20/20 so I could send them note saying >"Well where have you guys been for the last two years? Most serious >investigators I know had blown the Santilli autopsy off as being bogus >at least that long ago. Get on with it for God's sake and report on >something a bit more serious. "Blown the Santilli autopsy off as being bogus" for _no good reason_. There are very good arguments to be made for the authenticity of the footage as well as issues that detract from its authenticity. But I can't think of one _conclusive_ aspect that makes the Santilli footage bogus. The "experts" are unable to offer anything more useful than, essentially, personal opinions and "gut feelings." I'm in total agreement that "20/20's" coverage was belated and inadequate. But I think it would be terribly bad journalism to dedicate a segment to the unreality of the Santilli footage in the absence of empirical confirmation of te fact--now or two years ago. In light of this, "20/20" should never have attempted a UFO documentary at all. And it pains me to see the Santilli footage (a genuine unknown) equated with the lunatic fringe. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Intelligence, Tar and History From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:39:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:05:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence, Tar and History > Date: 05 Apr 97 10:37:01 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence, Tar and History > >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 15:46:06 -0800 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Intelligence, Tar and History > Jan, > Very interesting and thoughtful post. > I do have one question though. On what basis do you insist that > disinformation agents do not exist? > Bob Of course, I can't prove a negative! Experience is the answer. The US was poor when it comes to counter intelligence, OPSEC is terrible. I took a college course taught by the VII Corps Deception Officer. His position was newly created. His job was to take full scale models with infared, radar and other devices and get the enemy to think forces were deployed in an area in which they did not exist. We haven't really done much correctly in this area since Patton with his phoney invasion force in England or Inchon. North Korea figured MacArthur would indeed pull off an amphibious landing. They thought it would be a Mokpo or somewhere on the east coast. They knew that his staff had prepared studies for just about everywhere during WWII. They just were not prepared to believe Inchon. MacArthur used all the deception he could to make them continue in that belief. After Korea, Deception faded out. The military has just, in the ten years, gone back to this old idea. The purpose of Deception is to cause the enemy to think you are elsewhere and commit forces to the wrong place. Stories about trying to get up and running in this area are really amusing. Makes the Keystone Kops look like smooth operators. Military intelligence is not an all knowing and all seeing entity. There are some who are competent. Most that I've seen weren't that impressive. Disinformation was a Soviet activity. It is harder to do in a Western society. Ufology has adopted the word. Mostly ufologists have divined their information on this subject. It exists in their minds. The probability of some type of operation is unlikely. Certainly based on the other intelligence failures, there would have been a misstep by now. If someone has evidence, let examine it. Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:45:19 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:02:01 -0500 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:34:44 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: First Use of the term "flap" >I would like to locate the first use of the term "flap" in the UFO >literature. If anyone has a reference for this or is familiar >with how this term came to be applied please email me. You might want to check out Curtis Peeble's anti-UFO history of the phenomenon, "Watch the Skies!" He starts with the Arnold sighting and offers a very journalistic history of all the major "flaps." He might even get around to describing when and how the term "flap" itself came into existence. I think Peeble's book is largely ignored because of its very skeptical attitude toward UFOs, but most of the history and reporting is impeccable. As far as names and dates are concerned, it's probably one of the most valuable works in the field. Peebles believes UFO "flaps" are strictly sociological in nature. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 UFORA From: Michael McCann <ufologik@usa.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 17:13:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:46:10 -0500 Subject: UFORA I just wanted to ask if there were any upcoming UFO Confrances in Tn, USA. Also, Anybody heard any UFO Rumors about TN. The Report well is drying up here. -- +--------------------------------------------------+ | U F O O N L I N E | |..................................................| | Status Report [Optimal] | | #400+ Ufo Reports | | #Government Documents | | #Many More Advanced Features | | Http://cybercity.hko.net/Las_Vegas/michaelmccann | +--------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 HONG KONG April Fool joke From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 97 12:56:01 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:45:13 -0500 Subject: HONG KONG April Fool joke Does any one on the group have contacts in the Hong Kong financial community? It seems there was a brilliant parody of the newspaper 'Asian Stock Market Journal' privately printed and distributed, called 'Asian Stock Market Gerbil', dated 1st April. There were parodies of most of the usual dry departments.... * News: The headline announced that Britain was to be allowed to keep HK ... in exchange for N.Ireland. China had hired Fergie to do their PR. The IRA were run over by a People's Army tank. * Editorial/analysis: An interminable account of the minutae of a day in the Imperial Japanese household in which nothing happened. A long letter from the Department of Whinges that promised death if not published. * Ads: piss takes of the usual self-serving, over-affluent, aggressive and totally materialistic rich Asian lifestyle. >From the tone it seems likely that it was the product of some disgruntled ex-pat Brit financial journalist ... but it is very funny and (I'm sure) livened up the HK stock exchange (not noted for its laffs). I *must* have a copy for my files. So please, please can anyone who knows someone who can get one, get in touch with me. Thanks. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Nellis Video? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:41:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:41:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 02:08:21 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 14:07:16 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nellis Video? >> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 >> From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Nellis video >> I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and >>including a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. Hiya Ken, Thought you'd get a kick out of seeing this. It's a single frame video capture of a UFO that is identical to the one in the Nellis video. It was taken in 1991 by a Brazilian newsteam. *In case anyone is interested in seeing or downloading copies of the Nellis AFB material, you can access it at my buddies (Bill Hamilton, Tom King, and Tim Edwards) OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE website: http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm You've got to see these side by side! (Brazil and Nellis UFO's) The Brazil video was obtained from a local television news broadcast. (A Brazilian researcher sent it to Budd 5 years ago, and I blew the dust bunnies off of it and reviewed it) I guess the Brazilian media aren't as 'paranoid as our homegrown version. The Brazilian 'sky show'lasted over an hour (as per the anchorman reporting,) and according to him, the event was witnessed by (thousands.) I'm curious to see how many of the UFO shots I've been posting can be blown off as video artifacts or lens aberrations *without* the benefit of analysis. Let's hear from some of you out there with the ability to really have a close look at these. I'm really interested in the results of study, not 'theory' or 'conjecture'! Analysis by (all) who have the RAM and the software to do so would be most welcome. These suckers look like the same type of 'craft'to me. They were captured on video four years apart and half a world away from each other. I'm throwin' 'em right down the middle of the plate guys, and they're pineapples! If I make them any easier to hit, the ball wouldn't even make it to the plate! Who's going to step up and take a swing? (No one) has done a comparative analysis on these two images yet. Personally, I'd be very interested in the results. Have fun with this new one I've submitted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Alfred's Odd Ode #125 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 08:20:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:32:58 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #125 Apology to MW #125 (For April 6, 1997) I won=92t defend the luddite, and his hatred of machinery. I won=92t detract from successes found in a scientific century. I won=92t provide an argument for a flaw in science method. I only hope to point out that its reach is mal-extended. I=92ve lived near half a century -- heard consumer sirens sing. I know that we=92re conditioned to buy the latest thing. We=92re beat up by the media to consume the latest soap. Our joy is keyed to genitals, where they tie their silken rope. And they stroke you and they poke you, teasing hapless privates. They make you smoke their cigarettes with a lie that YOU=92RE the pilot. Tobacco whines and cries on RIGHTS, or liberty=92s erosion Then jacks up on the nicotine to hook you on that notion. It=92s disrespect to all worth holding, and it=92s spit in honor=92s eye. It was profit from coarse misery; they lived in luxury while we died. They=92re living still while hapless farmers are afloat on hopeless chance, They trip the light fandango, and they cop a rich man=92s prance. I heard a judge, a federal one, in confession he was dirty Telling C-SPAN how hard it is to support his wife named Berty. His kids needed college, the taxes were hellish. He really took it in the rear. "Folk=92s just don=92t know, how hard it _is_ , on only 90 thousand a year!" Now, consider Christians conscientious, how they stand against a *peace*. None see the sweeping paradox, their ethics truly creased! "The peace will come from devils. Cooperations -- league with Satan!" =20 "It is foolish, harmful demons work to have a one world nation." "The end times are upon us, let us turn our back, and pray"! "The beast has now arisen, so the end comes any day"! "I=92ll send my wealth to Jesus, he who visits me, so then "I=92ll send my wealth to kind Ralph Reed, or the likes of Benny Hinn."=20 "But =96 PEACE COMES ONLY FROM THE DEVIL"!!! This is their rallying cry, their platform, on the level. . . So if peace is sad avoided as the brainstorm of the beast, Then War is worth encouraged effort, our blood is then what=92s least! Oh, I get it now =96 we must work for dissolution, and erosion of all trust. We must end this false endeavor of a search for peace -- we must. =20 Because if peace comes from the devil, then it must be God forbidden. That=92s what Ferry Falwell says from a Christian Right well hidden. If I=92m wrong say it out =96 and I=92ll hear a loud shout.=20 But that=92s blithering, negative crap they=92re about. Am I wrong; do you find me repellant and crafty? Or are Christian ideas on peace colored -- nasty. Now a few words on Racial purity, like my Cocker Spaniel canine. She=92s got papers in a stack, a rare beauty with high stanine. But that superficial *beauty*=92s with foundational price She=92s sick all the time with infections not nice. She=92s epileptic, withdrawn, and neurotic by turns. She=92s mean, and unwarm in genetic return. This is what the purists and the skinheads really want? To flush good health down genetic toilets so their _kids_ take can the brunt? It=92s diversity that=92s the answer! It=92s there that lies salvation! To understand begins right there =96 accommodate creation! Tolerate what=92s different, and find your irritation Left behind with all the hateful, mad confabulation! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Have you ever thought of the complete, and utter disrespect man has for an animal that he genetically teases into an unhealthy caricature? With all the historical evidence on sex linked genetic disease, plus the evidence that he can see around him in his pure bread animals -- the garden variety skin head cannot readily see that racial purity is a myth, a joke, a tragedy? --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake because his tormentors were all inbred!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:01:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:23:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:34:02 +0000 >From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> >Organization: Federation >Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network - Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs >To: UFO@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >United Kingdom UFO Network >Source: CNI News >Date: April 1st 1997 >CNI News notes with interest and amusement that the Pentagon chose April Fool's Day to reiterate their stock position on UFOs. The following text ran on the AP wire. Thanks to Erik Beckjord for alerting us to this story. >Copyright 1997 The Associated Press >WASHINGTON (AP) - Convinced there is no extraterrestrial threat, the U.S. military long ago stopped keeping track of UFOs, Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said Tuesday. ....snip.... >The Air Force stopped the practice because virtually all the UFOs it >investigated were explainable as aircraft or weather phenomena and >posed no threat. JC: For those people new to this list, how the Air Force was able to make that claim is partially explained by the Air Force's own civilian astronomical consultant to Project Blue Book, Dr. J. Allen Hynek. He worked in this capacity for approximately 20 years. The following fully footnoted essays will explain what Dr. Hynek discovered during his tenure with that "study." Your local library can be used to confirm a great deal of what is discussed therein. http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.5a.html To find out more about Dr. Hynek's life: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.3a.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Bacon said the Air Force investigated UFO reports from 1947 to 1969 >but out of 12,618 reported sightings found no evidence of >extraterrestrials or even of any aircraft representing exotic >technology or a threat to the United States. JC: After reading "ocr.5a.html" from above, you will discover that Dr. Hynek, himself, had called the Air Force statistics used in Blue Book, "a travesty." At the "Center for UFO Studies" (CUFOS), Dr. Hynek's own organization, he reexamined the 20 year Air Force data from Blue Book. The outcome regarding same may be found at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m23-031.shtml That "reevaluation" was included in one of a series of posts I and others had made to Paul Devereux, a scientist researching the phenomenon known as "Earth lights." I was delineating where I believe Dr. Hynek would have placed the "Earth lights" phenomenon within the entire spectrum of reported UFO phenomena. I simply restated Hynek's reevaluation of the Air Force's own 20 year study as a basis for my statements. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Asked about the possible existence of UFOs, Bacon said the U.S. >overnment "cannot substantiate that they exist." JC: After researching the information provided above (and perhaps reading more of the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals, and examining them closely for yourselves,) one can begin to realize Kenneth Bacon's words are most probably not telling the entire story. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - For more excellent information regarding the topic of UFOs, researchers and a plethora of other topics, please see Glenn Campbell's UFOmind database located at: http://www.ufomind.com/ Glenn's database, although in its initial stages, is rapidly becoming an extremely valuable tool any serious researcher can use to help condense and solidify his/her studies relating to UFOs (and other phenomena as well.) I highly recommend it. Reading UFO UpDates posts on the Web at Glenn's database archive will enable one to click directly to all references in these letters. Address of the archive is included below in Errol's .sig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 More Oz UFO Reports From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 21:10:51 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:27:51 -0400 Subject: More Oz UFO Reports Last report/ 04/04/97 re:Thursday 3rd April 1997 @ 10.22pm NSW. Umina Central Coast .Respondent reports sighting up 12 illuminated triangular or stealth type aircraft travelling towards the Palm Beach area from Umina. 6th April 1997 @ 8.00pm Friday 4th April 1997 @ 11.00pm NSW. Surrey Hills Sydney Respondents report sighting flashing illuminative lights changing colours in the west and in the east. ( likely to be star light refraction). Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 12.10 am NT. Wanguri Darwin. Respondents report sighting a "large red fireball" travelling quickly overhead, the object was heading to the south towards the Alice and was about the same height as a light aircraft. The illumination or object was a deep red colour and it had a small fiery rim, there was no wind in the area and no sound was heard. The respondents report the object was larger than the full moon 12 o'clock high and moved faster than an aircraft. Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 8.30 - 9.15 pm and 11.00pm NSW Sydney. Marrickville, St Andrews to Campbelltown also NOWRA AND MT OUSELY AREAS. Respondents report sighting groups of bright orange illuminative lights between 8.30 -9.15pm. From Sydney the illuminations were seen to the south west while from Campbelltown they were seen to the south east. The illuminations split in to twin pairs and speed off in opposing directions, east and west. While other illuminations headed off to the south east. Later in the night @ 11.00 reports from Campbelltown and nearby areas, respondents report sighting up to eight illuminations approaching from the south east and then the illuminations stopped still for a short time then moved off to the west....... NOTE: WE HAVE RECEIVED ADDITIONAL "UNUSUAL AERIAL SIGHTING "REPORTS FROM THE NOWRA AND MT OUSELY AREAS OF OBJECT/ ILLUMINATIONS TO THE WEST SOUTH WEST AND TO THE SOUTH EAST (NOWRA AREA) @ 9.55PM. Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 9.30pm Tasmania. Bicheno. (192klm north of Hobart). Respondents report sighting a large illumination to the north about 10 O'clock high. The respondent state that "the object appeared like an aircraft with port an starboard lights, however the fuselage was like a "white fluoro tube" and it seemed to have an electrical field around it". When sighted through binoculars and a telescope the respondents said that they "could not focus on to the white illuminated area", however they could on the red and green lights. The object was observed to gain height and then to stop for about 5 minuts, it jerked around and then headed directly towards the respondents with a frightening speed. One middle aged man said that "I was so spooked by it, I thought it was coming to get us, I ran inside and hid in the cupboard". The other respondents watched the object change direction and head off to the west.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:31:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:37:37 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] About Curtis Peebles: > Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:45:19 -0600 (CST) > From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> > To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET > Subject: Re. First Use of the term "flap" > I think Peeble's book is largely ignored because of its very skeptical > attitude toward UFOs, but most of the history and reporting is > impeccable. As far as names and dates are concerned, it's probably > one of the most valuable works in the field. No way. See the review in IUR some time ago. The book is riddled with factual mistakes. And I caught a particularly nasty piece of misquotation, verging on a lie. Peebles devotes space, naturally, to the Washington sightings in 1952. One major primary source is Edward Ruppelt's book, he having been just appointed head of the Air Force's Project Blue Book at the time. He wasn't in charge of the AF's reaction to the sightings -- he was too new, and not high-ranking enough -- but he was on the scene. When he summarizes his own reactions, he gives reasons why the sightings might have been mistakes, as the Air Force claimed. He also gives reasons why they might have been real. He quotes AF pilots who were scrambled to look for the UFOs. Peebles quotes only the first part of all this -- Ruppelt's reasons why the sightings might not have been real. This is really misleading, since you get the entirely incorrect idea that Ruppelt took the official AF position, which isn't true. > Peebles believes UFO "flaps" are strictly sociological in nature. That's the usual skeptical view, of course. Interestingly, the skeptics can't cite sociological data to prove they're right. Eddie Bullard wrote a detailed study of the question for IUR, showing just how difficult it is, and how wrong it is to jump to conclusions. In my experience, the skeptical view is based on circular reasoning. Since they KNOW there aren't any real UFOs, obviously flaps must be caused by the media. And then the belief that flaps are caused by the media becomes yet another argument for the non-existence of UFOS...which proves once more that flaps are caused sociologically.... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 The Varginha 'Saga' From: "A. J. Gevaerd" <gevaerd@alanet.com.br> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:52:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:41:27 -0400 Subject: The Varginha 'Saga' +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is the reply from A. J. Gevaerd (Brazil) to=20 Drs. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo and Willy Smith (Miami)=20 about the Varginha Case. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Doctors Willy Smith and Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo: I had the pleasure to receive your letter as to answer my previous, about what you now curiously nominate "The Varginha Saga". I have many things to say to you and hope that now you can understand them, since you haven't shown to understand the previous points we --- the Brazilian UFO researchers --- are trying to make.=20 The first of these points is that we did not, in any moment, criticize Mr. J. J. Benitez in any other way or for any other reason than in his involvement in the Varginha Case, or "Saga", if you prefer. What could be a great contribution from him to the Brazilian UFO researchers --- especially in this so special case --- was someway spoiled on that November 12 he went to Varginha for unknown purposes, secretly.=20 Instead of talking to the right persons --- the investigators of the case, the girls who saw the alien, the military personnel who captured 2 creatures etc --- he preferred to go to the city anonymously, totally in silence. Why? Instead of sharing his discoveries with the researchers --- who were willing to give him any info he could possibly think of --- he decided to release them to the press! Why? It's definitely a very strange behavior=85 See, dear doctors, by the strange items you write in your letter you simply show that you have only a very superficial knowledge about the Varginha Case at all. Your positions are so naive that I am completely surprised! And you also show to have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever that the UFO research of this country --- despite the fact that Brazil is a Third World country --- is one of the best in the planet. You somehow defy the Brazilian researchers to come up with information believing that we don't have them. Have you ever tried to say "please"? Anyway, it's completely ridiculous, because you haven't even had the minimum necessary precaution of reading the information contained on the 3 issues about the Varginha Case I published nationwide --- one in April 96, with preliminary findings; one in-depth, exclusive edition entirely dedicated to the case published in August 96; and now, just released on March 97, a completely updated version with the last findings and a few more pieces to the puzzle [and about Benitez adventures in Brazil]. Have you tried to read them BEFORE expressing your ideas or comments?=20 You just don't have any clue of the status of research that have been conducted by some of the best trained and accurate UFO researchers in this country. You defend Benitez and you don't even know what exactly you are defending! I urge you to get better informed about the case you questions before you go on with that and even before we all go on with this fruitless discussion. Once you know the facts better we may have a serious talk! Anyway, I will answer a few of your questions, statements or accusations one by one. If you really want to know about Varginha, please talk to the right people or read the right info. I will be pleased to mail to you all the issues of the UFO Magazine I just listed above, if you send me your mailing address. It will be free, complimentary, my pleasure! They are in Portuguese, but it's up to you if you really want to go deep in this thing enough to have them translated [I had to learn English to get acquainted if the Ufology in your country]. YOU WROTE: "Continuing the frenzy generated by Brazilian UFO investigators following the Varginha case of January 1996, we have now an extensive letter from A. J. Gevaerd who is the editor of the only publication in Brazil devoted exclusively to Ufology. In his contribution, distributed extensively through INTERNET, Mr. Gevaerd intention is to clarify many of the issues related to Varginha saga, but unfortunately what he has written is not up to his reputation in the field, as it contains incorrect or inappropriate comments which we feel deserve an honest rebuttal, as we are specifically named. Since our main objective is pursuing the true and not to fuel unproductive controversies, after some hesitation, we submit this paper=85" I ANSWER: There is no "frenzy generated by Brazilian UFO investigators" neither the Varginha Case is a "saga". It's only a very well, deeply, accurately, appropriately documented, on-going case. Among us --- Brazilian researchers, who are the people who really know the case --- there is no frenzy at all. If what I wrote is or is not up to my reputation it is only your judgement of the facts --- which, by the way, you don't entirely know. And I don't believe that too many people are interested in your judgements anyway! I never intended to go into "unproductive controversies", but after reading so many misinformation on Varginha on Internet --- and I am sorry, doctors, but you have generated a few --- I got somewhat tired and decided to write a few words about it. After all, I am among the researchers in Brazil who are in the "inner circle" of the Varginha information [I have met Ubirajara Rodrigues, Marco Petit and Claudeir Covo regularly every two weeks or so for new exchange of info about Varginha].=20 YOU WROTE "That A. J. Gevaerd characterizes us in those seems (?) is a clear indication that he has only read superficially the two papers we posted on Varginha (REFLECTIONS ON THE VARGINHA CASE and THE VARGINHA EVENTS), or perhaps since the articles were written in English -- the substance of our position was not properly understood or lost in translation. To repeat it then: On December 1996 a group of local investigators arranged an appointment with J. J. Benitez during his stop at Miami, mainly to have the opportunity of meeting him. However, when he mentioned his visit to the Varginha site, we asked him to show his materials. He obliged, and we were astonished with the depth and care of his research, and our initial skepticism dissolved when we were allowed to inspect his field book and examine the almost one hundred photographs he had."=20 I ANSWER: I read your two papers on Varginha and, I am sorry, I found them just too simple or too primary. The research being conducted on Varginha and the material published about it in Portuguese are far, far beyond that. When I say you are naive, for what I apologize, I refer to what you just wrote: "we were astonished with the depth and care of his [Benitez's] research, and our initial skepticism dissolved when we were allowed to inspect his field book and examine the almost one hundred photographs". What care is that you are referring to? How could Benitez's "couple-of-hours research" be more accurate than the Brazilian researches conducted on several months, non-stop, 24-hours-a-day? If you had your skepticism dissolved after you saw Benitez's material is because you haven't believed in what you have seen before that --- which is the Brazilian evidence! If you were skeptics, it's because you didn't know anything about the case at all! It simply means that you haven't believed in the Brazilian researchers, who have been conducting in-site investigations for hundreds of hours, but believed in Benitez "couple-of-hours research"! Excuse me, doctors, but this is what I mean when I say that you don't have a good knowledge about the Varginha "Saga". By the way, if photos and annotations in a book count, I have about 300 on the Varginha Case and hundreds of pages in my computer=85 YOU WROTE: "We were also placed in a delicate situation, as we had two options: A) to keep the information under wraps, as evidently it was Benitez intellectual property, or, B) to inform the ufological community of the existence of this physical evidence of the reality of the Varginha case. With Benitez permission, we took the second course of action. So, Mr. Gevaerd, we did not become "inflamed defenders" of J. J. Benitez. Simply, we considered it was our moral obligation to impartially report what we had seen and we made sure to obtain the authorization of Mr. Benitez to publish two of the photographs we have in INTERNET. For our efforts, we have only received derogatory comments from Brazilian investigators, who don't seem to understand their objections should be addressed directly to Mr. J. J. Benitez and not to us." I ANSWER: What physical evidence? The photos? The annotations? Maybe Benitez's book? You never reported anything impartially, as you said, but completely partially! This is pure and simple desinformation! And we do not want to issue any derogatory comments to you or anybody else. We just want to inform you of what is going on in Brazil! You want you either get better informed before trying to tell people what you think or just let it go and don't talk about things you don't know. See, I never express opinions about on-going cases in which the time and reputation of several accurate UFO researchers are involved UNTILL I get I the facts directly from them. In someway, I learned it from Dr. Hynek himself, as I was appointed by him to represent CUFOS in Brazil in 1983 (do you remember you translated his letter into Spanish and signed together with him?). Well, I think that you should have learned that too! YOU WROTE "In addition, those same investigators (Ubirajara Franco Rodrigues, Vit=F3ri= o Pacaccini, Pedro Cunha, to name a few) have been unable to provide us with an annotated map of the site, or to answer the very simple question we formulated, and which we repeat here: "WHEN YOU VISITED THE SITE --PRESUMABLE IN LATE JANUARY 1996-- DID YOU NOTICE ( MEASURED, PHOTOGRAPHED, SKETCHED) ANY GROUND MARKS?"." I ANSWER: Finally, the very answer to your question is simple: NO, WE NEVER MEASURED, PHOTOGRAPHED, SKETCHED ANY GROUND MARKS in those places BECAUSE THERE WERE NOTHING THERE. Benitez's holes or ground marks are only a few months old. That's it! None of these "evidences" could be found more than a few months before Benitez went to Varginha because --- and the experts proved --- they are much newer than the Varginha Case!!! Did you know that? YOU WROTE: "To be precise, Mr. Gevaerd you state that no more than 20% of the information published on INTERNET is accurate, which of course implies that 80% is incorrect or false. Considering that the information posted in INTERNET is on a page signed by P. H. Andrade, what you are saying is that a deliberate effort has been made to distort what Brazilians know about the case." =20 I ANSWER: What I state is a fact not only towards Varginha Case, but about anything else. Take for example what you published on Internet: there are a lot of inaccuracies that don't' mean you faked info, but only that you don't have the whole figure! I would definitely estimate that no more than 20% of everything on Varginha in the net is accurate --- and what P. H. Andrade has being putting is in that 20%, as well as a few others. This people have posted summarized info about the case in the Internet, and researchers and enthusiasts from overseas start drawing conclusions based on summarized information! You did that. You obtained all your info from Internet, and that means that you are not UFO researchers, but only Internet surfers! In that case, I would suggest you surf anywhere else=85 YOU WROTE: "I can't really believe this, but in fact it would explain the resistance that we have found against Benitez contribution, which from our distant=20 perspective, should have been rejoiced the local investigators as confirming their work. Moreover, sooner or later, you will participate on a UFO conference and surely you will be closely questioned about that "missing information". I hope you will be prepared to furnish it. You urge the overseas researchers to be better informed, but how could this be done if Brazilian investigators do not answer the questions made to them?" I ANSWER: Once again, what contribution? What scientific evidence he found? Did he ever shared them with the researchers? No, he shared with the press! You are right about something, however: your "distant perspective". Maybe too distant and superficial to know what is going on in Brazil. Also, there's no missing information and I indeed have been to several countries since last year --- Australia, Chile, USA many times, England, Scotland, Argentina, Finland, Mexico etc --- speaking in conferences. In any one of these opportunities I have shown exactly what the Brazilian UFO researchers found and are still finding! I am very prepared to furnish the info I am asked to, as well as the Brazilian UFO researchers do answer all questions that they have received. Once more, dear doctors, you haven't been reading the appropriate information. In the magazines I listed above all your answers and a lot of many other questions are properly answered. Just look in the right direction, please. YOU WROTE: "Next Mr. Gevaerd makes a serious accusation: "( Benitez ) spent a couple of hours in Varginha, goes to the wrong places, with the wrong people, at the wrong time, and claims to have found something that over 30 UFO researchers --some of the best in Brazil-- couldn't find in 8 months"... I truly hope that A.J. Gevaerd con document his statements. We have seen not only the pictures taken by Benitez, but also those taken by other investigators (as for example, Bob Pratt ), and the background is the same. Even in one of the photos shown in Andrade's page the countryside is the same, but of course the investigators ( Pacaccini and Rodrigues ) could have been posing elsewhere for the photo." I ANSWER: If you go to Hawaii and take pictures of a particular beach, and than you compare with hundreds of pictures of all the beaches in the island, taken by someone else, you will find unbelievable resemblances, or won't you? Benitez took photos of places in an area that is just like the same everywhere you look at! I have dozens of them myself. That place is a vast area, doctors, and you can make hundreds of pictures aiming to different locations and get very similar results. Come on doctors, it's too primary and I don't have to teach you that! YOU WROTE: "As for the "wrong persons" accompanying Benitez during his visit to the site, this is a gratuitous insult to Tadeu Pinto Mendes and Anibal Albuquerque, who had no previous connection with the Spanish writer. The reference to the "wrong time" doesn't make much sense either. And to be honest, it would be no surprise if in a near future somebody would suggest that Benitez was purposely taken to an incorrect site where the "marks" had been planted for his benefit, with the intent of misdirecting the world's attention." =20 I ANSWER: Yes, Anibal Albuquerque and Tadeu Pinto Mendes were definitely the most wrong persons Benitez could choose to escort him in Varginha! Do you know, doctors, that Dr. Anibal is a retired colonel from the same military Army installation from where the soldiers captured the ETs? Do you ever knew that he used to be a detractor of the case in the town? Did it ever came to your knowledge that he is a close friends of the military officers who told all the soldiers to shut their months? Did Benitez ever knew that? Well, we know about it and that's way we say what we said. More: Tadeu has never, ever been involved in UFO researcher. He is just an enthusiast of the subject of UFOs with no deeper knowledge about it or even about the Varginha Case! Do you know that he didn't even understand way he was contacted to escort Benitez? Did Benitez ever realized that his escort people had none relevance whatsoever in the Varginha Case? Did you know that? Also, if you were a little bit more informed about Brazil, and particular about Minas Gerais, you would understand why I said "wrong time" --- and that it makes a lot of sense! During the last months of the year, people in that area of Brazil have the strange habit of setting fire on old crops, forests, grass fields or whatever. This fires are called "queimadas" and are repeated everywhere for no particular reason. Well, this completely explains why Benitez found insects and rocks calcinated close to his "UFO landing marks". Now, he made a primary mistake by not observing that in his "accurate research". What about yourselves? =20 YOU WROTE: "But more disturbing, Mr. Gevaerd adds: "=85 no UFO landed, but one (sic)= UFO crashed hundreds of meters from where he found the holes". How many hundreds of meters ?. One, two...?. Be as it may, this places a UFO nearby. And of course, this implies this event was carefully investigated, by serious investigators, who took photos, collected soil samples, made schematics of the area, etc... Why haven't we seen any of that material?" = =20 I ANSWER Dear doctors, if you had ever read the results of the investigations, you would certainly find descriptions of sightings made by several people who saw an strange aircraft coming down and crashing in January 20, 02:00 am. It crashed far away from where the girl saw the alien, which is a few blocks from where the first capture took place, on 10:30 h January 20 [by the way, Benitez's escorts in Brazil took him to a different location and told him that place was where the girls saw the alien --- they didn't even know exactly where was it=85 Ask Benitez yourselves, docs!].=20 If you had ever read the articles that the real Varginha researchers published in the magazines, you would know that we have one witness from the Brazilian Aerial Defense Command who works in a radar station and detected the UFO coming down exactly a few minutes before it crashed. And he --- or nobody else --- ever detected it coming up later! But I shouldn't be telling you this. Just read the material and please inform yourselves better. Why haven't you seen any the material you list above, it's because you failed to search in the proper places! Do you think that we must fell obligated to send you hundreds of pictures just to please you. Come on, doctors. It is you who are supposed to dig deeper into the facts and don't simply believe or defend someone with obscure purposes. By doing that, your acts become obscure too and I can't help to ask you: are you getting paid by Benitez do defend his weak and ridiculous findings? If so --- or if not --- please get yourselves better informed about anything you decide to discuss or defend in the future. YOU WROTE: "And why would anyone be surprised that Benitez found marks nearby. No, Mr. Gevaerd, what really upset the Brazilian investigators was the sudden revelation that very likely they had missed the marks. And what attracted our attention to this case --- which so far had NO physical evidence --- were the implications, as detailed in our first paper: REFLECTIONS ON THE VARGINHA CASE which have been conveniently ignored. I can't resist to paraphrase here the words of Stephen Jay Gould, a distinguished Harvard professor, when he tell us not to forget a cardinal rule of scholarly detection: "Don't only weigh what you have; ask why don't see what you ought to find". We feel that they fit the Varginha case perfectly."=20 I ANSWER: I tell what really upset the Brazilian investigators: it is the fact that people who don't have a single clue about the Varginha Case --- except for what they have read on the Internet --- get into the discussion trying to teach them what to do or not to do. I ask you, doctors: where else have you got information about the Varginha Case other than on Internet or through Benitez? Did you ever tried to listen to the Brazilian UFO researchers' lectures or explanations (and I have been lecturing in many places of the USA last year)? Did you try to read any of the UFO magazines I published about the cases? Did you read Vitorio Pacaccini's book Incidente em Varginha? Did you come to Brazil at any time to search the evidences for yourselves? Why haven't you tried to get info from the Brazilians politely rather than defying them to give you answers? Who do you think you are? You wrote REFLECTIONS ON THE VARGINHA CASE, that you regard a serious comment on the case, as it seems by your letter. What sort on information have you consulted to write this so pretentious paper, in which you "reflect" (sic) on a case you barely know? I am sorry, doctors, by you are as very far way from the facts as you are from Brazil. I would definitely suggest that in the future you concentrate your discussions on cases that happened nearby Miami; cases about which you can get better information. Please don't risk your reputations by defending biased opinions and wrong, inaccurate info you get on Internet. In closing, I want to paraphrase your master, Dr. Hynek: "In Ufology, what you see is not what you get". You both should know that. PS.: I took me several days to finish this letter because, unlike you both, I am a very busy man who doesn't have time to spare in non-sense discussions. Sincerely A. J. Gevaerd Editor, UFO Magazine gevaerd@alanet.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 12:54:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:45:21 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report > Date: 04 Apr 97 23:26:32 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: ABC's 20/20 report > > Hi everyone, > Earlier I had alerted Ray Santilli that 20/20 on ABC was > going to broadcast their story on the alien autopsy film > tonight. Ray phoned me twice today to discuss this, and > I agreed to watch the segment and prepare a brief report > for him. I expected the segment to be a hatchet job > because I knew that not a single person on the pro side > of the fence had been interviewed. But I had not > expected to see something as badly done as I saw. > Follows my report sent to Ray: [snip] > Bob Thanks for posting to UFOupdates your background perspective on the ABC 20/20 story on the Santilli video segment. I think that irrespective of what one thinks about the Santilli video it is important that the process of reporting on the UFO, extra-terrestrials topic be available to the public scrutiny. Then people can compare that process with their own view of how the process should work. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Planetary Update April 5, 1997 From: planmyst@planetarymysteries.com (Kynthia / Sterling) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:56:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:49:56 -0400 Subject: Planetary Update April 5, 1997 Friends, "I am so pleased to welcome Michael Sterling of Sterling Studios as a full-time "Co-Pilot" on the Planetary Mysteries Team. Now that both "wings" are engaged in flight configuration, Planetary Mysteries is breaking orbit. Sterling brings with him the high standard of excellence that earned him the title "ABEL DOG" in L.A. His tireless determination to partner the Planetary Mysteries vision has become a driving force in actualizing many long term projects. For me there is deep sense of gratitude to be able to share this journey. Your response has been so overwhelmingly positive and this has fanned the fires to give you more. Now I have the great benefits of Michael's experience and insight to assist in this endeavor and I couldn't be happier. Its fascinating to be on the receiving end of your amazing messages, for this reason, we will soon be putting up a section titled, "Spacewalk" where we will give the floor to you. We invite you to send us your insights so we can share them. And as always, my gratitude goes out to the many contributors to the Planetary Mysteries site. Now, is a time of personal and collective decisions. How we view our world will determine the actions we take. It is hoped that this information provide you with perspectives needed as a catalyst for responsible action. May the Universe Bless Us with a Profound Sense of Our Unity. Kynthia ....we're taking the night off. We've got a music party to go to..... WE'LL BE BACK! ______________________________________________ HERE WE GO..... NEW ITEMS SINCE LAST UPDATE: * Paintings by Kynthia, that ABEL DOG has been nipping at my heels! * FLYBYTE ONLINE! Welcome to the Planetary Mysteries "second site"; a Gift from the Aether Bunny..... * Secret Government Disclosure in '97? Interview with Bob Dean, March 24,= 1996 * The Yin and Yang of Hale-Bopp (five part series) Part 1: How to view comet HALE-BOPP - When is the last time you saw a lunar eclipse during a 5 deg Moon/Mars conjunction, the Pleiades, Orion's belt, AND a comet in the sky at the same time? Part 2: "Strange Facts About Comet Hale-Bopp" - Response by professional astronomer, Tom Van Flandern Part 3: A Message from the highest mountain range in the world (19.5 degrees, N. Lat.) Part 4: How NOT to View Hale-Bopp * Genisis / Geneset - A Review and Synopsis by Dr. Bruce Cornet of two very important books. * UPDATED! A geologic / geomorphic investigative approach to some of the enigmatic landforms in Cydonia by James L. Erjavec and Ronald R. Nicks * Zen... and the art of debunkery by Daniel Drasin. An insightful look at how information is kept from= us.. * The Mars/Earth Enigma: A Sacred Message to Mankind-Interview with DeAnna Emerson. From Transcripts of the Hieronimus & Co.: 21st Century Radio and The Zoh Show. * Archeological Excavations - Trip to Early Roman/Byzantine site led by Dr. James F. Strange of the University of South Florida. Excavations at Sepphoris, Israel, 1997. * "The Day the Earth Nearly Died" by D.S. Allan and J. B. Delair Book Review by Richard G. Allen * Potential Problems with the Mars Global Surveyor The Mars Global Surveyor Spacecraft now has a 2nd communications capability which opens the door to secret communications. * MARK DWANE: Interview with Sequence Magazine Renowned musician, composer of "Monuments of Mars", speaks about his work. * MARK DWANE: Interview with Margen Magazine ______________________________________________ Content \ adj: 1) to appease the desires of 2) satisfaction with one's possessions, status, or situation. >From the Ides of March to April 1st, many, many things happened. The window opened by Hale-Bopp was used by everyone in different ways. Some made money off it, some died for it, some one must have fallen in love during it, and I'm sure babies were born who will grow up in a world beyond even our imaginings. Kynthia keeps assuring me that all this balances out.= Personally, I think what we've done tips the scales in the direction we all want them to go, but at least one thing happened to us all as the Heavenly Bodies aligned above our heads. We all found ourselves looking OUT from the Planet that is our home; at the same thing, and at the same time. There were those who worried about us spending so little time outside of the room that houses the PlanMyst computer ("you guy's should get out more, you're not eating enough...!"), but at ABEL's, during times like these, we all knew what we had to do and if it meant "going to the mattresses", and sleeping on our office floors, we did it. Now, as the World shifts into a new gear and we approach the 30th anniversary of the Summer Of Love, I can't believe I've been given the opportunity to do it all again. Upon Kynthia; a Fine Artist, a creature of pigment and glazes, of years spent pursuing a vision she misses when forced to sell it, I confer the honorary title of ABEL DOG (Deena would approve, and she should know). Kynthia, on her own and from scratch, put up Planetary Mysteries, and she has taught me EVERYTHING I KNOW about HTML. She has allowed me to use the gravitational field of her hard-won skill, to nail FLYBYTE the first time out. An Artist could ask for no better friend, and no friend could ask for a greater Ally. We used the Hale-Bopp window to do the very best we could do within the imaginary and real constraints placed on us. Those constraints are about to disappear however, and having seen what we've just done, I can only urge you to keep your eyes on the PAYLOAD that has just separated from the tumbling booster that is the past. As we accelerate towards the X on the map that is the future, we will need more than your attention. We will need your thoughts, and we will need your support. We will soon post the YES page, and the details concerning the Planetary Mysteries Society. These new windows, will allow us all to get to that destination as quickly as possible. We are going to give you what you want, and we hope that all we had to do was ask in order for you to reciprocate..... The Earth IS dancing beneath us, and the Sky is SINGING. I WILL DO MY BEST. MS __________________________________________________ Created and Produced by Kynthia =A9 Kali Light Productions Michael Sterling: Co Art Director and Co Editor Kathleen Imhoff: Marketing Director
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Nellis Video? From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:31:56 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:03:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 02:08:21 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? <snip> >The Brazil video was obtained from a local television news >broadcast. (A Brazilian researcher sent it to Budd 5 years >ago, and I blew the dust bunnies off of it and reviewed it) <snip> >(No one) has done a comparative >analysis on these two images yet. Personally, I'd be very >interested in the results. >Have fun with this new one I've submitted. > >John Velez (Forever tryin') Dear John and Ken: If I remember correctly, I think Sightings had a segment on the Nellis object about a year or so ago. I remember how it would turn and seem to "shape-shift". I saw the same footage on Real TV and recognized it from the show a year ago. Back then I also wondered if the abrupt movements of the object were due to the robotized camera shifting, the objects actual movements or a combination of both. I also remember, perhaps it was in a later follow-up on Sightings or some similar show, this object being compared to the Brazilian object. They both turn and at one point seem to project a cross-like image. I didn't mention this when Ken first posted his comment because I thought surely someone would relate it to previously aired programs. But since no one has mentioned it, thought I would. John, I know a comparative analysis was done of the Nellis footage and the Brazilian footage because I remember seeing this side by side on the screen. The objects DO look almost identical! I know it was a very popular UFO/paranormal show on back then, perhaps Paranormal Borderline or Sightings because those where the main ones on a year ago. Hopefully someone will remember exactly which program and let you know where to see this comparison. Hope this helps. Amy ****************************************************************** + UFO-ER + Emergency room for expanding realities. Information -> E-mail <yelorose@swbell.net> *******************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Intelligence, tar and history From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Apr 97 17:30:38 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:13:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence, tar and history >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 03:58:34 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Intelligence, tar and history >You should be asking for the facts rather than stating that I would make >a ridiculous allegation. I don't care if Kal Karloff arrives or not. I >have never considered anyones' association with the intelligence >community to being equivalent to being "tarred with a brush". >What I am interested in knowing is about the background of individuals >writing and or promoting material in this field so I can better >understand the players, their roles, the phenomenon and its history. As >you are well aware the intelligence community - as demonstrated through >historical documents obtained through declasssification process and the >FOIA process has had a long and continual history of investigating the >UFO phenomenon both through open domestic and foreign sources as well as >covertly through human and technical means of survellance. >This is not a ridiculous allegation and here are the facts of the >matter: THANK YOU GARY for your guts to exposed a self-styled inquisitor as what he really is, a rather dubious individual. I met Kal Korff the first time on a UFO Expo West in Los Angeles in the summer of, if I remember right, 1993, when he, for the first time, presented his "sensational exposure" of what he called "the Billy Meier hoax". His strategy was interesting. In his (free) lecture he made big claims, promised to prove them in his (expensive) workshop, where he referred just to his book and video, both not out at that time (we still wait for the video). Among these claims was: -he located the bookshop where Billy bought his books (true, so what?) and he got the list of the bookseller when Billy bought which book and the subject matches with a reference to the same subject in his "Contact Notes". If you read his book and check this claim you will find out that Billy started to buy his books there just in the last few years - and definitely NOT in 1975-78, the time the contact notes refer to. He did not repeat his lie that he could find any connection between book titles and contact notes subjects. -he claimed he located the shop in Winterthur (nearby city) where Billy Meier bought the helium for the ballons on which, according to Korff, Billys UFOs were hanging. Truth: He located A shop in Winterthur selling helium without ANY proof that Billy Meier ever visited that shop. -He claimed he interviewed neighbors who saw Billy & helpers faking pictures with models. Truth: Billy moved to his farm in 1979, his famous pictures were taken in 1975/6. Indeed in 1979 Wendelle Stevens came with a UFO model and did some tests with Billys camera to find out if you can duplicate certain effects on Meiers pictures by the use of a model. -He claimed he made lots of interviews "since he speaks fluent German". When I addressed him in German (I am German ) he didn't understand a word. -His main source was the late Hans Jacob, a former friend of Meier, who claimed he found out Meier is the Anti-Christ and had a vision of Meier as a devil "with a red tongue", riding by on his motorbike. Jacob was a religious fanatic who published "channeled" messages of the space brothers and just didn't agree with Meier's philosophy... Korff's most convincing "evidence" was that he started his workshop showing a picture of a model of a car which, indeed, looked quite realistic. Then he declared: "See, how easily you can be deceived by a model, so there is no reason to believe Meiers pictures are real." Okay, I understood: Since you can fake a picture of a car there are no real pictures of cars and no cars at all... According to Korff's law: "If you can fake something, you can be sure it IS a fake". Greetings, Michael Hesemann, Dusseldorf/Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Nellis Video? From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 19:01:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:18:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 > From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Nellis video Hi Ken, > I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including > a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. The tape was supposedly > from a tracking camera they use there and included audio of ground crew > members saying they saw the object and didnt know what it was, and > sillhouetted interviews with the people who supposedly smuggled it out > saying how concerned they were... > The object seemed to be some sort of central cylindrical structure > surrounded by 3 globes that were attached. It flew at rapid right angles > and looked like no aircraft I've ever seen (it certainly wasnt > aerodynamically sound). > I ask because I read this List and am subscribed to most of the > pertinent newsgroups and havent heard a peep about it. It's an amazing piece of video. I saw this same S30 video on a "Sightings" episode a year or so ago. It does not look like any current aircraft that I'm aware of. It performed some pretty amazing manuevers like the right angle turns you described. The shape of this object also was quite strange. The object seems to change shape from frame to frame in some parts of the video, but seemed to have the basic shape of 3 or 4 globes tied together with a darker appendage in the center. Seeing how it was shot at Nellis Test Range there is a good chance that this thing is military. But it seemed to show flight characteristics that are totally unconventional to me. If military, where did the technology come from and what is it's purpose. It could explain some of the UFO sightings of recent times. I have put up a web page on the S30 UFO at http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/s30.html You can download quicktime movies of this anomalie there. I would appreciate any information anyone has on this particular case. Regards, Bill Ralls UFO World http://ufo-world.simplenet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 09:53:50 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 14 April 6, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor LEADS IGNORED IN HEAVEN'S GATE CASE More surprising revelations emerged this week in the wake of the recent mass suicide of 39 members of the Heaven's Gate group at Rancho Santa Fe in California. On Sunday, March 30, 1997, Yuba County deputies checking out a trailer in a remote canyon near Marysville, California (population 9,900) discovered the remains of a man who gassed himself to death "because he wanted to join the crew of 39 on the Heaven's Gate spaceship trailing the Hale-Bopp comet." (See the New York Post for April 2, 1997, page 12) The victim was identified as Robert Leon Nichols, 58, a former roadie with the rock band Grateful Dead. Nichols was last seen alive on Sunday, March 17. "Nichols was lying on his back in bed with a clear plastic bag over his head. The hose to a propane tank was under the bag and a 3-by-3-foot (1 square meter) mostly purple scarf covering his upper torso." (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for April 2, 1997, page 25) A suicide note found with the victim read, "I'm going on the spaceship with Hale-Bopp to be with those who have gone before me." Interestingly, the Nichols note is dated 10 a.m., Thursday, March 28, 1997--"several hours before the public was told how the cultists died and that their bodies were covered with a purple shroud." (New York Post, April 2, 1997, page 12) On Tuesday, April 1, the North County Times of San Diego reported that police had discovered a small arsenal of rifles, shotguns and handguns in a pair of storage sheds rented by the group. "Lt. Jerry Lipscomb of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department office said authorities found the cache of weapons after the owner of the 10-feet by 10-feet sheds realized one of the dead cult members was his customer." The storage sheds were located in Escondido, California, 30 miles (48 kilometers) from the group's rented mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. Weapons included two semi-automatic rifles with scopes, a bolt-action rifle, two semi-auto handguns and two revolvers. Police also confiscated boxes filled with books, videotapes and ammunition. On his weekly radio show on WWCR in Nashville, Tennessee, militia spokesman Mark Koernke said he recognized the top videotape as one of his 1995 productions, "America In Peril 2." "The final days of Heaven's Gate appear to have been a combination of fun outings and mundane chores...Four cultists went on a bus trip through Santa Rosa, Sacramento and Gold Beach, Ore. (Oregon) before returning through Santa Clarita." (Providence R.I. Journal-Bulletin, April 4, 1997) The four members of the "away team" also visited Ashland and Medford, Oregon. (Editor's Comment: The quartet travelled by bus from Oregon to Sacramento on Interstate 5. Nichols's home in Marysville is 40 miles north of Sacramento. Nichols could have driven to Williams (population 1,655) on Highway 20 and met the quartet's bus when it came off the interstate.) At least two Heaven's Gate members and Robert Nichols were linked to past UFO flaps. In July 1996, two college students reported seeing a UFO along the Feather River south of Marysville, home of Robert Nichols. Lindley Ayerhart Pease, 41, who died at Rancho Santa Fe, was born and brought up in Exeter, New Hampshire. "Pease, 41, whose parents owned the former Eastwind Hotel on Hampton Beach, along with Applewhite and 37 other cult members died in a mass suicide last week in San Diego." (See the Boston Herald for April 2, 1997, page 20) Hampton Beach along Route 88 had the highest number of reported UFO sightings during the flap of September-October 1965. Pease was a 9-year-old boy at the time. (See INCIDENT AT EXETER by John G. Fuller, Berkeley Books, New York, 1966, pages 98-103) Julie LaMontagne, 45, a former R.N. and second- in-command to Marshall Herff Applewhite, "graduated in 1974 from the University of Massachusetts (in) Amherst nursing school. She was recruited in Amherst in 1975, according to her foster mother Theresa Boucher, and became personal nurse to Applewhite." (See the Boston Globe for April 3, 1997) In October 1973, there were numerous UFO sightings in Belchertown, Amherst and North Amherst, all near the UMass campus where LaMontagne was a student. An AP story identified LaMontagne as "one of the last two members to die." (Editor's Comment: According to medical examiner Dr. Brian Blackbourne, the last two cult members took Vicodin, a derivative of codeine. Why would ex-nurse LaMontagne take codeine when all she had to do was put on a white uniform and R.N. cap, walk into any southern California hospital and help herself to more potent pharmaceuticals?) BOPP TILL YOU DROP: MORE STRANGE LINKS EMERGE On March 30, the New York Post reported that the Heaven's Gate victims all had $5.75 on their persons, likening this to Captain Stormfield, the hero of a 1907 short story by Samuel Langhorne Clemens, better known as Mark Twain. UFO researcher Bufo Calvin has disproved that claim and unearthed more evidence linking the group's founder, Marshall Herff Applewhite, to the Twain short story. "Extract from Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven" opens with the hero, a San Francisco skipper "dead 30 years" flying through deep space. He races a giant comet, which puts him off course. As a result, he arrives at the wrong "gate" and finds himself among throngs of aliens ("a sky-blue man with seven heads and only one leg.") Eventually he gets to the Earth section of Heaven and spends the rest of the story trying to adjust. Bufo Calvin uncovered this item in the story: "And mind you, I'm not talking about only the grandees from our world, but the princes and patriarchs and so on from all the worlds that shine in our sky, and from billions more that belong in systems upon systems away outside of the one our sun is in. There were some prophets and patriarchs there that ours ain't a circumstance to, for rank and illustriousness and all that. Some were from Jupiter and other worlds in our own system, but the most celebrated were the poets, Saa, Bo and Soof, from great planets in three different and very remote systems." Applewhite first called himself "Bo," when he founded the group in the early 1970s. Did he borrow the name from the extraterrestial poet- philosopher in Clemens's story? In the story, Clemens also wrote, "Why, Peters, we don't know anything about comets, down here. If you want to see comets that are comets, you've got to go outside of our solar system--there's there's room for them, you understand." Could Clemens have been referring to the Oort Cloud? If so, then how could he have been aware of it in 1907, eight decades before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope? During the week, a ROUNDUP reader wrote in and noted that the second half of the comet's name Hale-Bopp can be reduced to BO and P**P, a shorthand version of "Bo and Peep," the names Applewhite and his now-dead consort Bonnie Lu Trusdale Nettles called themselves in 1975. Another reader pointed out that, in addition to Helena Blavatsky, the comet's initials H.B. could also refer to Hugh Auchincloss Brown, the catastrophe theorist. In the 1960s, Brown warned that a buildup of ice at the South Pole could result in the Earth's surface slipping around over its molten core. Florida could wind up where Alaska is now, with a frozen climate. And vice versa. Newsweek magazine reported, "And, finally, we're told by one doomsayer on the Web to read the best- selling LUCIFER'S HAMMER (1977) about a comet that "causes major trouble for Earth"; it was discovered by fictional astronomers Time Hammer and Gavin Brown, and then named Hammer-Brown. These are the very same initials as Hale-Bopp! The point? Our Web friend doesn't say." (See Newsweek, April 7, 1997, page 43) UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE AROUND TUCSON On Friday, March 21, 1997, John B., working as an extra in the new Kevin Costner movie "The Postman" reported for an early cast call at 4 a.m. at the movie set near Tucson, Arizona. Suddenly, John spotted "an orange spherical object just north of the Yaqui Reservation in South Tucson. It was just hanging there, appearing to spin. I watched for a good five minutes, and it never moved." The UFO darted away at high speed at about 4:07 a.m. The following day, Saturday, March 22, John added, "I had a real early call and about 4:30 a.m., over the same location, was a triangular-shaped object which seemed to just float in space. It had an orangeish, goldenish hue. And since neither Venus nor Jupiter are triangular in shape, I figured I'd seen my second possible UFO in two days." Later that same day, Saturday, March 22, at about 8:30 p.m., Lance C., age 12, and an adult friend were out looking for the comet Hale-Bopp in a residential section of Tucson. "I heard a whistling sound or something cutting through the air, which made me look straight up," Lance reported. "I saw three plate-like things (saucers) hovering high above my head. The three ships moved in a circle (counterclockwise) as though they were connected, but I saw nothing that connected them. At the same time, two of the ships would move toward the center of the circle, meet, and then move back out the same distance. They hovered briefly and then quickly headed off into the northern sky." Also, the night of March 22, in Victorville, California (population 14,220), a security guard at an apartment complex reported seeing "a reddish-orange ball swoop down and hover over some bushes and trees" at the rear of the building. The apartment complex suffered a power outage. The guard's hand-held walkie-talkie also refused to function. Power was restored when the UFO flew away. (Email Interviews) NEW UFO SIGHTING IN VIRGINIA The night of Monday, March 31, 1997, A.J. was at Willoby Spit, a small seaside peninsula in the West Ocean View section of Norfolk, Virginia, observing the comet Hale-Bopp with his binoculars. "I'd finally managed to focus the binoculars and was scanning the (northern) sky for the comet," A.J. said, when "I was very stunned, surprised, in awe, to see a peculiar craft of unknown origin cross my viewing path." A.J. described the UFO as "a silvery cigar-shaped craft...I did think it had kind of an iridescent hull or exterior. After a few minutes it shot straight up at what I believe to be a 45-degree angle and disappeared. There's no way I could have missed its departure unless it went either super-fast, or cloaked itself or exited the (Earth's) atmosphere." (Many thanks to Yechiel A. Mann for forwarding this story.) LOW-POWER UFOs TRY TO DODGE THE JARVIS TEAM The Southern Ontario CSETI working group, led by Jennifer Jarvis, completed a second week of observations along the shores of Lake Ontario. But the UFOs, as if responding to the team's presence, have changed their tactics and moved their "diving point" away from St. Catharines, Ont. Because of the blizzard on Sunday night, March 30, 1997, the team was unable to go on stakeout. However, "we were there every night but Easter (Sunday)," Ms. Jarvis reported, "We have had sightings every time, and some extraordinary activity last night, Tuesday, April 1. Combined with watching Hale-Bopp behind us, it was an amazing evening. We appear to have filmed around 20 events. At one point, two of these bright orange objects appeared to be engaged in communication or altercation." Approaching UFOs seemed to be operating on low power and were only visible with binoculars. The UFOs continued to dive into Lake Ontario and submerge, as they did last week. However, the team estimated that the UFOs were now entering the lake at a point 40 miles (64 kilometers) offshore and further east of Grimsby and St. Catharines. (Many thanks to Jennifer Jarvis for this update.) CHILE ADMITS CURRENT UFO FLAP IS "FOR REAL" On Monday, March 31, 1997, at 12:55 a.m., three UFOs were seen by people working in the control tower at Aeropuerto Internactional de Chacalluta, just outside of Arica, the northernmost city in Chile. According to the eyewitnesses, the UFOs were hovering just offshore, over the Pacific Ocean, near Morro de Arica (hill) and remained there for two hours. At about 3 a.m., the objects "flew away at very high speed," heading for the Andes. Airport director Julio Schettner said the UFOs hovered "at an altitude between 3,000 and 4,500 meters (10,000 to 15,000 feet) and emitted blue, red, green and yellow lights which made them clearly visible to the naked eye." Schettner added, "In our tower, it was not possible to track them on radar, so we contacted control towers in (Arequipa) Peru and Santiago (de Chile). None of them had flights registering in Arica at that moment." He added that he "had been doubtful about the existence of UFOs but not any more," adding that they left Arica "at an astonishing speed." (See the newspaper La Tercera de Arica for April 1, 1997) On Wednesday, April 2, 1997, the Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC), Chile's civilian aeronautical ministry, announced that the three UFOs in Arica had been confirmed on radar. DGAC radar and Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh) air force radar tracked the Arica UFOs "travelling at speeds of up to 12,800 kilometers (8,000 miles) per hour." In the capital, Santiago de Chile, a DGAC spokesman said, "Chile is experiencing OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO) sightings. The phenomenon is real. It is not meteoric or climactic." (See the newspaper La Cuarta of Santiago de Chile for April 2, 1997. Muchas gracias a Luis Perry para esas noticias.) STRANGE AERIAL PARADE ON AUSTRALIA'S EAST COAST On Thursday, April 3, 1997, at 10:22 p.m., a man aged 35 standing outdoors at Umina Beach, near Gosford, New South Wales (N.S.W.) spotted a V-formation of 12 UFOs passing overhead. He described the objects as "twelve illuminated triangles or Stealth- type aircraft." The UFOs passed over Umina Beach heading north toward Palm Beach, and then "descended and seemed to disappear into the sea." "I was frightened by the event because, when I was outside, I first felt some kind of electrical field pass through me, just before I turned to see them pass overhead," the witness said. "I was stunned, white as a ghost." Following the UFO formation was an AWACS four-engined jet plane with a radar dome mounted on top of the fuselage. "A little later," the witness recalled, a large military helicopter, possibly an RAAF Westland Sea King HC.Mk4 "mounted with two very bright spotlights" flew towards Palm Beach in the same direction as the UFOs and the AWACS plane. Bringing up the rear was "a small light aircraft." Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline checked with the Royal Australian Air Force and reported, "The RAAF showed that they had not recorded any aircraft in that area." However, Mr. Dowe added, recently the Royal Australian Navy has been conducting a joint naval exercise with the U.S. Navy's Seventh Fleet near Jervis Bay, Queensland. The maneuvers are part of Operation Tandem Thrust 97. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe for this story.) UFOs BACK IN OOSTERWIJK On Tuesday, April 1, 1997, at 10:55 p.m., Manuela Hoogstratten of Oosterwijk, Netherlands spied her second UFO within a month. Oosterwijk is a village on the De Linge River near Leedam 55 kilometers (33 miles) southeast of Amsterdam. "I was taking a walk with my fiance," Manuela said, "We were looking at the stars and Hale-Bopp. It (the UFO) was the size of a star and not so bright as Venus, and it was moving fast. It hovered in one place first and then it made a curve to the right. Twice it lit up and accelerated a few times and then it disappeared in a straight line. It wasn't the curve of a falling star. Its path was like a roller coaster." From Manuela's report, it appears that the UFO hovered for a minute or two over the NATO military radar station at Nieuw Millingen, 25 kilometers (15 miles) from Oosterwijk. (Email Interview) from the UFO Files... 1897: AIRSHIP SIGHTING IN KANSAS Here's the actual newspaper report of a UFO incident that took place in the northwest corner of Kansas one hundred years ago. "April 2, 1897 - Reports That It Has Been Seen Again by Kansas People - Kansas City, Mo. The mysterious air ship seen often in Kansas during the past two weeks was seen again last night (April 1, 1897) at Everest, Brown County, in the northwestern part of the state. It was first observed about 9:30 o'clock by two or three persons. At that time only the brilliant headlights were visible, but a few minutes later, as it came nearer, the outline of its huge framework and what seemed to be an enormous cigar, came plainly into view. By this time, half the citizens in town were viewing the sky." "The ship was seemingly erratic in its movements. Instead of moving in a straight line, it rode up and down, now to the left, and again to the right, but always, apparently, under absolute control. When first observed, it was coming from the north. It was in sight fully 15 minutes, disappearing far towards the south. On each previous occasion, when the ship has been seen, it has come from the north in the early evening and returned in the early morning. In all expectation that this program will be repeated, a good number of the citizens of Everest will remain out all night, hoping for another glance at the mysterious visitor." (See the Evening Times of Pawtucket, R.I. for April 2, 1897, "That Western Airship," page 2.) Important Announcement from John Hayes Due to the increasing number of issues of UFO ROUNDUP, the archives at UFOINFO have been moved so that each volume is in a separate directory. Page forwarding to the UFO ROUNDUP index (address unchanged) is operating for a few months to allow other Website owners time to update links to individual issues. FUN UFO WEBSITES Colorado MUFON has a great site. Check them out at: http://www.net/comm/~COMUFON1/ Not to be missed is our parent site, UFOINFO, at: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, drop in at: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts And if you have a UFO to report, email us at Masinaigan@aol.com. If you see a UFO story in your local newspaper, clip it out and mail it to our snail- mail address: UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886 That's it for this week. More saucer news next Sunday from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any items from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 'Byond Belief' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:09:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:01:22 -0400 Subject: 'Byond Belief' If the "alien autopsy" film saga is the hoax it's presumed to be, how do we explain the recent public reminder Bob Shell received from Michael Hesemann to, "Please keep in mind we verified every important detail of the cameraman's story including the (un-Roswell-like) crash date, the arrival of the disc (not Roswell "wing") on a truck in Wright Field AND the crash site". The claim that evidence exists to substantiate all of the story given by Ray Santilli and associates, will be an enigma to those who consider the "alien" to be nothing more than the immobile special effects dummy it looks like. So, what's this all about? The "we" referred to is what Hesemann terms "The International Research Team" (IRT), essentially composed of Philip Mantle, Shell and himself. First of all, perhaps a summary of what hasn't been verified. After two years of investigations, the IRT has failed to: - establish the authenticity, or even the identity, of the person who claims to be the cameraman - corroborate any of Ray Santilli's various "archive film" acquisition stories - confirm that one meaningful frame from the video came from archive film - identify the "facilities house" which allegedly transferred the 16mm film to video. This seems an alarmingly precarious foundation to build any case on, but proceeding nonetheless, Hesemann summarised the aforesaid IRT's evidence in a lengthy article published by Nexus Magazine in their Oct-Nov '96 issue and it's that article which will be referred to. It was originally offered to Walt Andrus at MUFON and Hesemann believes it wasn't published, "because its content was against the MUFON partyline and the article itself maybe too scientific for the MUFON UFO Journal". As I suggested to Hesemann at the time, perhaps there were too many words and not enough pictures. What Hesemann claims to have been verified by the IRT relates to the film stock, the "autopsies", the "crash site", the date of the incident and the previous existence of the footage. From my own discussions with Hesemann, Mantle, Shell and others, what follows will hopefully go some way to clarify the true nature of the claims which continue to be made. * The Film Stock * "Careful study of stills made from the original film and high-quality Betacam copies confirmed that the film was indeed shot on 16-mm material", claims Hesemann. This has not been confirmed at all. He continues, "Two segments with three frames each, one clearly showing the autopsy room, were given to Bob Shell, editor of Shutterbug magazine.". It's now well established that these frames do not clearly show the autopsy room, but come from unrelated frames, later added to the beginning of the film. This is an important aspect of the research which has been carried out and it's regrettable that there's no acknowledgement to the work of researchers Theresa Carlson and Robert Irving in determining what the sample frames actually represent. Hesemann subsequently offered to me an explanation that the table shown in the sample frames - too low to be the "autopsy" table - could be a "movable" table, "put higher for the autopsy". A cursory examination of the table in the footage shows it has four, thick legs and these are joined to their neighbours by another thick connecting piece. The imaginative idea of a collapsible autopsy table, doesn't make this evidence fit. * The "Autopsies" * The medical community has offered a number of alternative opinions and explanations for what appears in the footage. Hesemann's summary statement that, "There was not a single physician or pathologist who, after watching the full film concluded it was a hoax or that the being on the table was a dummy", is obviously untrue, as is his claim that, "Not one physician concluded they were actors or made any mistakes". Hesemann noted that one creature supposedly died at the scene, two died shortly afterwards and one lived until 1949. He therefore concluded, "The cameraman filmed the second and third autopsies on 1st and 3rd July 1947". This seemed to be in error as the photocopies of the claimed reel labels relating to the "second autopsy" refer to "Body No. 2" and Ray Santilli had confirmed that the other "autopsy" footage is recorded as the first autopsy. I pointed this out and Hesemann replied, "Indeed, the cameraman calls the autopsies of July 1st and 3rd "the first and second" autopsy, but it referred to autopsies he had filmed. Since FOUR aliens had been recovered, as he said, and one was killed on the crash site, only ONE survived until 1949, it's a logical conclusion as every historian who has to reconstruct historical events would do, that IN FACT HIS first autopsy was the one of the second being". In the meantime, Shell had also told Hesemann, "This is not the information given to me by Ray, nor does it fit the info on the film labels. The autopsy we have all seen is clearly labelled as the second, and, according to Ray the other one is equally clearly labelled as the first. The cameraman gives the dates of July 1, 1947 for the first one, and July 3, 1947, for the second one. The third, according to Ray, took place in Washington, DC, in 1949 in a large operating theatre with many spectators. Ray said nothing to me about the nationality of the spectators, and my assumption was that they were all American. This clearly leaves one body not accounted for. Since the cameraman implied that at least one was not injured in his original statement, this uninjured one could have lived for some time. Perhaps it was the one autopsied in 1949, perhaps not". Enlightened that his reconstruction of historical events was missing one alien, Hesemann queried, "maybe you are right... but since FOUR beings were found and three autopsies were filmed by our cameraman and only ONE survived until 1949 when the third filmed autopsy took place... what happened to the fourth one?" In the story, one of the four "aliens" had always been unaccounted for, although it seems to have taken Hesemann some two years to notice this. It's alleged that, according to the cameraman, the autopsy was performed by "Dr Bronk" and "Dr Williams". Hesemann claims that after Bronk's death, "all his papers and documents were preserved at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research". It's further claimed that Bronk was a "very methodical person" who "kept detailed diaries and all his correspondence, notes and dates". However, when Shell made some enquiries about Bronk's "papers and diaries for 1947", he discovered that "mysteriously enough, this is the only year for which all the records are missing" and allegedly none of the librarians could explain why. This all sounds convincingly conspiratorial, but when I asked Shell about the basis of these claims, he confirmed, "I have said repeatedly that I have done nothing but PRELIMINARY research on any of this so far, but people always forget to quote that part". Shell had apparently simply telephoned the Rockefeller Archives and one other location and as Stanton Friedman explained to me, "I had been to the Rockefeller Archives many years ago and found their holdings on Bronk not very exciting...there was much classified work that really isn't reflected at the Rockefeller holdings...there are other holdings at many other places where he served". It seems to be an established fact that Bronk was involved in a number of sensitive, classified projects, however, there is no serious evidence to remotely suggest that he was involved with an "alien autopsy" in the first place. As for Dr Williams, it's suggested this might have been "Dr Robert Parvin Williams (1891-1967), who was Special Assistant to the Surgeon General of the Army at Fort Monroe, Virginia". Despite the obvious absence of any evidence which connects this Dr Williams, or any other, with an "alien autopsy", Hesemann astonishingly concludes, "Alone, the naming of Dr Williams-who was the right man in the right place for the task-indicates the cameraman had some inside knowledge". * The "Crash Site" * Hesemann states, "In September 1995 Santilli released the cameraman's drawings, enhanced by a graphic artist, showing the crash scene. Although the scenery in our photographs looked different, we found that, coming from the canyon, it looked exactly like it was in his drawings. Right where he drew the craft crashed into a cliff, we found an area, 20 metres in diameter, where someone had deliberately sizzled off the rock as if trying to remove traces". The actual story is that Santilli claimed to have received some "worthless" sketches from the "cameraman" and brought in an unknown professional artist who redrew the sketches, based on descriptions given by the "cameraman" _over the telephone_. Reliant on a 50 year-old memory given as a verbal description, these were the sketches which Hesemann saw. I have respectfully suggested that finding an "exact" match for the remotely viewed scenery was perhaps his subjective interpretation, anything else being a miracle beyond even the powers of Uri Geller. The subsequent claim that, "After we sent photographs to the cameraman, he was able to confirm the site", should of course be taken to read that after Ray Santilli received the photographs, he was the person who said it was, indeed...the very spot. Nevertheless, Hesemann found a cliff from which evidently some of the lower rockface had been removed and he explained to me that he meant the rockface was "chiselled" rather than "sizzled". Is there possibly an conventional explanation for lower levels of rock being removed in this area of New Mexico? Apparently, there is. It's understood that although the rock contains no minerals of value, it has been discovered to be a suitable and convenient source of hard rock bedding foundations for road construction and local contractors have been known to "strip mine" as much material as they need. It's a relatively sparsely populated and open landscape and unless there is a problem, much of this activity goes unnoticed, unchallenged and undocumented. As further evidence, Hesemann cites the nearby "Niggerhead Mine", which he states the cameraman claims was, "reopened by the US Government (Department of the Interior), but with no further mining, on the very day the retrieval began: 1st June 1947". To my knowledge, Ray Santilli has never said that the "cameraman" made this claim. How would the "cameraman" have known anyway? On the whole issue of a "crash site" having been located, Shell is infinitely more sceptical, and commented to Hesemann, "The problem is that the cameraman's directions to me on how to get to the site just do not make any sense, as we both know". "I want to go back. But ONLY after Jack has agreed to answer some questions. Otherwise it may just be another waste of time and money. We need to talk to him personally and get clarification. Until we can, I consider this aspect unresolved. Ultimately we just will not know until Jack gives us straight answers and explains why he sent me on a wild goose chase looking past Magdalena for the road". Hesemann reminds Shell of, "the arrival of the disc (not Roswell "wing") on a truck in Wright Field" and it's alleged someone saw this "metallic disc, about 30 to 40 feet in diameter". However, Magazin 2000, of which Hesemann is the editor, published a painting which was supposed to be based on the same sketches from the "cameraman" and shows a "flying wing", remarkably like the sketches in some of the published Roswell literature. I recently asked Hesemann, "If it was claimed to be a disc shaped object, why does the painting of the "crash site" scene, which is (c) Magazin 2000, show an object which isn't disc shaped but teardrop-shaped, with fins". Despite the "cameraman" having described the object as a "large disc", Hesemann believes, "the cameraman described the object as a disc, more or less" and "a teardrop-like extortion, doesn't change the general character". It can only be surmised how the "large disc" became a "Roswell flying wing" and subsequent to speculation that it wasn't a "crash" connected to the "traditional" story, it morphed into a large disc again. Perhaps the most significant of Hesemann's claims is that, "We located several witnesses to a "crash" that very day in question: 31st May 1947, in the evening hours". The first witness was Fred Strozzi, a local rancher who Hesemann was told had seen a meteorite in that same area. Hesemann added, "Unfortunately, Strozzi passed away years ago, so we couldn't ask him for details". Recent discussions with Hesemann confirmed my suspicions that this evidence is even more worthless than it first appears. Hesemann now acknowledges that there is only, "a vague date (summer 47) from Strozzi". The other witnesses were "a group of Native American children of the Acoma tribe who went to school in Gallup, New Mexico". On 31st May, "which one of them remembered quite clearly because it was just before her birthday", they apparently witnessed a bright "ball of fire". Subsequently, blisters appeared on exposed skin and they apparently believe these blisters were as a direct result. Hesemann concludes, "The witnesses -the 12 children and Strozzi- saw the fireball on the same trail on two different points, so it's logical to assume it was the same". As it's not even known when Strozzi may have seen a meteorite, all logic seems to have gone out the window here. In truth, far from having "located several witnesses to a crash that very day in question: 31st May 1947, in the evening hours", it's no surprise that the IRT have no crash witnesses at all. "Tentative", seems barely adequate. * Other Corroborative Evidence * Hesemann claims, "We located four eyewitnesses who had seen footage from the same stock as the Santilli film". "Master Sgt Bob Allen was security coordinator at a top-secret test site near Tonapah, Nevada. When he was briefed for his work, he was shown films for about two-and-a-half hours. When he saw the Santilli film on TV he immediately recognised them as part of the same stock." No further information is given about Allen, how contact was made with him and whether he ever spoke about the footage before it appeared on national TV. There's also no explanation why someone whose role was simply to co-ordinate security, would be shown such top secret film as part of their briefing. In terms of security, that would appear to be something of an anachronism. The second witness cited is "Sgt Clifford Stone", who claims that due to an incredible security lapse, he was inadvertently allowed a grandstand viewing of the footage during his time with the USAF. His clandestine observation discovered, Stone was subjected to an "intensified debriefing which took four nights and five days". Stone, a seasoned promoter of stories about secret US government pacts with the "greys" and underground "alien" bases, etc. and who apparently believes that, "the greys will eventually come forth and try to state that they created Christ", is no stranger to extraordinary claims. Surprising therefore that he didn't apparently speak of his alleged 1969, Fort Belvoir, Virginia ordeal, sometime during the 25 or so years prior to the "alien autopsy" film appearing on US TV. The remaining two witnesses are Johsen Takano and Dr Hoang-Yung Chiang. On 26 June, 1995, in the company of Colin Andrews, they were shown the "autopsy" video at a private screening. Hesemann claims, "After a private viewing, both Takano and Hoang-Yung told Andrews they had seen the film before: Johsen, when his government had requested UFO information from the US Government, which was then brought to Tokyo by a CIA courier; Hoang-Yung, when he had visited the CIA's headquarters in Langley, Virginia". This story is in fact the wrong way round, it was Takano who allegedly visited the CIA HQ. It's also of course complete nonsense and in an attempt to unravel the truth behind these claims, researcher and author, Paul Fuller corresponded at length with Jun-Ichi Takanashi, Chairman of the Japan UFO Science Society. Following Fuller's admirable efforts, it was established that neither Takano and Dr Hoang-Yung Chiang supported Hesemann's claims. Hesemann acknowledges that the Takano and Chiang story has a credibility problem and in a reply to Fuller mentioned that, "I have read a letter Takano wrote to Colman VonKeviczky where he claims that they bought the original 16mm reels from Ray Santilli to display them in the museum. Of course this claim is not true". It was Takano who coincidentally took the photographs of the Roswell TV movie model alien, now housed in the Roswell museum, which subsequently - and apparently with no involvement from Takano - were published as "genuine" in the September 1996 issue of Penthouse magazine. As further evidence, Hesemann offers the testimony of Bill Uhouse, alias "Jarod 2". In relation to the six-fingered "control panels" featured in the "debris" footage, Hesemann states, "Uhouse, a mechanical design engineer who worked at the top-secret facility at Area 51 on the Nevada test site-where he allegedly worked with alien technology-identified them as "personal control panels". They served to communicate with the individual member of the crew and possibly to interact with a computer on board or, better, the steering unit". Shell subsequently commented on his opinion of Uhouse's credibility; "No, I do not believe Bill. He made a major screwup at the Mesquite conference in talking about the flanges on the "control panels" and describing how he had seen them and how these flanges lock them together. There are no flanges! The lines demarking the flanges he was pointing to were strings tied around the panels to hold on the military's tags". There are a number of further claims made by Hesemann which are also untrue and in one of these he states, "In April 1996 Bob Shell was contacted by the US Air Force following an enquiry from President Clinton's scientific adviser, Dr John Gibbons". In discussions with Shell, it was confirmed that he was not in fact contacted by anyone, but that, "In April of this year I heard through friends in the "intelligence grapevine" that a certain person, an official attached directly to the Secretary of the Air Force, was seeking me. I was told that this person was looking for me on the orders of Dr. Gibbons who had been directed to look into this by President Clinton. This was the story, and I have no way of proving or disproving it". Shell took the initiative and subsequently spoke to someone he will not identify, but whom Hesemann confirms was Captain James McAndrew, involved with the July 1994 USAF report on the "Roswell Incident". As much of what was reportedly said could be open to considerable interpretation, and wary of McAndrew's apparent reputation for speaking with tongue firmly planted in cheek, it's a pity this wasn't foreseen to be a potentially significant discussion and recorded for later analysis. With the "intelligence grapevine" being somewhat inadmissible evidence, it seems all we can conclude is that Shell called Captain McAndrew and a conversation took place. Once more, it's certainly not the story that Hesemann would have people believe. The cover of Hesemann's previous book , "Cosmic Connections", features two photographs, one of a dubious Billy Meier "flying saucer" and the other an aerial shot of a "crop circle", created by Robert Irving. "A Comic Connection" would seem more appropriate and the same standards of investigation have been applied to Santilli's story. This equally applies to Shell and Mantle's obvious support for Hesemann's work, Shell commenting that it was "good, solid research". Shell himself typified the problems with their overall investigation by his recent claims concerning a new computer keypad, the Datahand, which he believed resembled the "control panel" in Santilli's brief "debris" footage. He alleged, "DataHand is suspicious because of when patent was applied for, and the difficulty of establishing any information about the inventor, Dale J. Retter. I have a professional working on this, but so far he has not been able to find anything to indicate that Retter really exists". In any research, a cursory search of the resources offered by the internet should perhaps be a prerequisite and some 30 seconds after doing so, I easily located a number of references to the much maligned Mr Retter, including the report of a conversation with him. It's all such baloney that it's sometimes difficult to accept that Hesemann, Shell and Mantle actually believe any of it themselves. But this isn't about personalities and if any of them consider that Hesemann's latest claims are not portrayed here in their true perspective, they're old enough to say so. Just back it up with some hard facts for a change. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Apr 97 17:00:16 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:24:41 -0400 Subject: 'Expert' comment I thought all of you on my mailing list would be interested in the comments of a VERY experienced cinematographer and journalist who watched the ABC 20/20 program last night. I can put any legitimate researcher in touch with him if they need to verify this. ************************************************** Maybe ABC would try to evade a "copyright infringement" suit on the basis that they're a "news organization." However, since the 20/20 segment was quite devoid of news, I wonder if they could make that defense stick? I found it particularly irksome that they said, words to the effect of "the assertion that the film was authenticaled by Kodak is false." I've never heard anyone claim that Kodak authenticated the film. On the contrary, I've heard nothing but irritation, over the fact that Kodak's requirements for testing the film have grown from simple to elaborate, to a degree of complexity that is almost impossible to satisfy. Nobody has said Kodak authenticated the film, yet 20/20 says that people who say Kodak authenticated the film are incorrect. In other words, 20/20 invents a premise, then disputes it. If it weren't such a desperate maneuver on their part, it would be funny That is probably why 20/20 declined to speak to you, and had to pirate the footage. Their entire charade of building an "alien" of their own makes sense only if they've established that the film is new, not 1947 stock. The question has never been whether we can reproduce an "alien" like the one in the autopsy footage using modern materials, and shoot it on modern film. The question has always been, could it have been done using 1947 materials. 20/20 didn't dare address that, so they evaded and distorted the question. Had 20/20 interviewed you, they also might have reported that you have sought the assistance of other film manufacturers in conducting destruct tests that could authenticate the film. By coincidence, I was present in the autumn of 1996, in Europe, when you made such a request. If 20/20 had reported either event, they would have had no basis for proceding with the charade that followed. All I've ever heard about authenticating the film is that it contains code markings that indicate it would have been manufactured in 1927, '47, or ' 67. This has always been represented, by you and others, as evidence in the direction of authenticity, but not authentication as such. By ignoring these fundamental facts, 20/20 has ceased delivering news, and instead is writing science fiction. Since 20/20 has such a low regard for accepted journalistic procedures and standards of conduct in this report, I have to assume their other reports are equally flawed. I must now question, for example, whether there was actually sexual harassment at Smith Barney, as an earlier segment asserted, or whether it was simply made-up to suit ABC's own agenda [for example, one of the sponsors of the show was another investment house]. Since a more balanced presentation of the "autopsy" footage was presented by the rival Fox Network, one assumes ABC has more than the pursuit of journalistic truth on their agenda. And I remember when Hugh Downs was considered the "intellectual" amid the "vast wasteland." >>sigh<<. << There was only Kodachrome, with a speed of about ISO 10 in modern terms, and was totally unsuited for this sort of work. >> Actually, as I remember my early Kodachrome, the speed of the film might have been as low as ASA 4 -- depending on the lighting and filtration of the scene. And, since there is no indication of 3400-degree K. lamps in the operating room, we must assume that if color film had been used, it would have been filtered. McGovern is also paraphrased [not quoted] on the show, that "a professional cameraman would have found one camera position and stuck to it," or words to that effect, rather than moving around with a hand-held camera. This statement is ludicrous, as it's quite clear that no single camera position in that small room could have been occupied very long, without someone blocking the shot. It becomes obvious from the outset that the movement of the doctors and nurse required the cameraman to be hand-holding, and mobile the entire time. Col McGovern might have been a military cameraman for a long time, but I can't imagine he was a very good one.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 PROJECT-1947: Teheran 1976 From: Drew Williamson <werd@INTERLOG.COM> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:16:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:31:37 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947: Teheran 1976 To the list, I am attempting to find any information on the Sept. 1976 Teheran "landing" case for another investigator. I have already sent him the relevant pages from Fawcett and Greenwoods' book, "Clear Intent", or The UFO Cover-up'" (your pick). I understand that there was a satellite confirmation of this event found. Any idea where I could get this? Any other info or references to info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Drew Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 UFOs, SACs, High Powered RF Weapons & USAF From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 02:39:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:12:58 -0400 Subject: UFOs, SACs, High Powered RF Weapons & USAF The UFO literature describes several different types of Unidentified Flying Objects. Some of these reports describe encounters with devices which I would classify as structured craft of no known human design, or structured alien craft (SAC). The UFO literature also describes some unusual effects of these SACs. One of their interesting reported effects involves the performance of automotive vehicles in the presence of SACs. Reports dating back as far as the 1950s state that a vehicle could become inexplicably immobile and could not be restarted in the presence of a SAC. There are also reported effects on electronic devices in the vehicle powered by the battery, e.g. the car radio can become temporarily non-functional. Some of these reports suggest that this disabling effect is selectively turned on and off by the SAC. An interesting subtlety of the effect is that those reports which specify the type of internal combustion engine show that gasoline powered engines and not diesel engines are effected. At least one report that I read mentions that a gasoline engine was disabled while a diesel engine near the gasoline engine continued running in the presence of the SAC. Gasoline engines require an ignition system for sustaining the combustion process after it is initiated, whereas a diesel engine does not need a working ignition system inorder to keep running once it has been started. With this in mind it is interesting to note the following in a document published by the United States Air Force Scientific Advisory Board. The www location of this document, New World Vistas Air and Space Power for the 21st Century Summary Volume, was distributed in UFO UpDates in February 1997. The entire message sequence should be in the archives. The www location of the document for your convenience is: http://web.fie.com/htdoc/fed/afr/sab/any/text/any/vistas.htm for those who wish to read the entire document it is about 227K long. The sections of the document relevant to this discussion are abstracted below from Chapter II Section 5.0 What is interesting to note is that the USAF now has a sublethal weapon capability of the type called High Power RF (HPRF). This is a high power radiofrequency device which can be directed against vehicles and electronic devices. These HPRF weapons "can be effective against vehicle ignition systems" for stopping and immobilizing them. The report does not note effectiveness against vehicles not dependent on an ignition system, e.g. diesel engines. Apparently there is some effect on electronic devices although the type this effect is not specified presumably it is disabling or destructive as it is employed as a military weapon. abstracted sections: Air Force Scientific Advisory Board New World Vistas Air and Space Power for the 21st Century Summary Volume Chapter II Capabilities and Technologies Section 5.0 Projection of Lethal and Sublethal Power 5.2.1 "Although all fixed targets can be addressed with common sensors, or no sensors, and delivery methods may be very much the same for all, the energy applied to the target may vary considerably with the target type. If sublethal response were in order, High Power RF (HPRF) weapons could be used against vehicles and electronic devices. The deployment of HPRF by cruise missile is discussed in the Munitions Panel Volume." 5.2.2 "It is often sufficient simply to stop moving targets. Unarmed vehicles can be left immovable. An immobile armed vehicle becomes a fixed target which can be destroyed with simple munitions. Of course, stopping and destroying an aircraft are equivalent processes. HPRF weapons can be effective against vehicle ignition systems and aircraft control systems."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 00:56:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:08:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:36:05 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 >LOW-POWER UFOs TRY TO >DODGE THE JARVIS TEAM > The Southern Ontario CSETI working group, >led by Jennifer Jarvis, completed a second week of >observations along the shores of Lake Ontario. >But the UFOs, as if responding to the team's >presence, have changed their tactics and moved >their "diving point" away from St. Catharines, Ont. [snip] Regarding the information provided in the above volume of UFO ROUNDUP, I would like to put the record straight, somewhat. 1. I have NEVER used the term UFO in my reports. 2. I have NEVER made ANY mention of "filming" these objects. I did mention having recorded real-time audio of the events, however. 3. I have NEVER made any reference to the "power"level of these objects. However, it is probably time to make some comments on this. According to Paul R. Hill in his book "UNCONVENTIONAL FLYING OBJECTS - A SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS," Hampton Roads Publishing Co.Inc.,1995. ISBN 1-57174-027-9, none of the characteristics that we have been watching over the last two weeks are inexplicable in the context of known physics. Quoting from Paul Hill's book....."There is really no secret as to what this illuminated and illuminating sheath of atmosphere around the UFO is. It is a sheath of ionized and excited air molecules often called a plasma. It has all the characteristics of ionized and excited air molecules, and has no characteristics not attributable to ionized and excited air molecules with expected contaminants; thus the illumination is tied to an air plasma. I am not suggesting anything original, as it has been suggested by many that such is the case. Indeed, any physicist who has made a study of UFOs must know they are characteristically surrounded by an air plasma The terms IONIZED and EXCITED will be explained shortly. The phenomenon of ionized and excited atmospheric molecules around a UFO also ties together a number of related mysteries about the UFO. It accounts for the general nighttime appearance of the UFO: the many observed colors, the fiery, neon-like look, the self-illuminating character, the fuzzy, indefinite or even indiscernible outline, yet an appearance of solidity behind the light. It also accounts for the general lack of heat radiation despite the fact that they sometimes look fiery or even like a flaming ball of fire, and even the ultraviolet burns sometimes received by close viewers of UFOs with a blue plasma......" Later he mentions the associated colors......" of all the visible colors, red and orange correspond to the least energy, according to this chart (see page.61) They are also the two most common colors associated with UFO low-power operation, such as hovering or low-power maneuvers. The electrons have been given the ionization energy, but not much more, and cascade down in small energy drops corresponding to red or orange. This is statistically probable, as there are more small drops available than big ones. According to the color chart, blue requires a relatively high activation energy. Blue, white, and blue-white are the common colors at high-power operation. The blue of the high-power maneuver or high-speed operation corresponds to the strong radiation peaks or nitrogen which will be discussed next. A blend of all the colors tends to white; but with the blues predominating, the blend gives a blue-white, as in an electric arc. "BRIGHTNESS.......The ionization energy has two components, energy level and amount....When a hovering UFO starts to maneuver, it necessarily increases thrust (lift) and power. In such a circumstance, the UFO is generally observed to brighten rather than change color, as the witnesses observed in.....This brightness would be the result of an increase in the activation power that the UFO puts out, exactly as just explained, while the energy levels of individual events stay fixed.......The brightness change together with the UFO power change clearly show that the UFO radiation causing the brightness is an integral part of the power system. On the other hand, the observed atmospheric colors are a by-product of the power plant radiation quite dependent on the properties of the atmosphere. The colors would probably be quite different on any other planet, and would be characteristic of that planet's atmosphere." ************ I have noticed these exact color characteristics during our nightwatch on Friday, April 4th. We noted that one object, when flashing, would change from its conventional fireball orange, to a hazy and fuzzy reddish color, but then change back again as it continued on its way. All told, we audio-recorded 28 events, following on from each other every 3 minutes or so. We are not aware that these objects have "DODGED THE JARVIS TEAM". I noticed, on signalling with a small laser, that the target object visibly brightened, coincidentally or not, I am not sure. Also, on Friday night, the objects appeared very clearly with the naked eye. I hope that this clarifies some of the confusion in the above-mentioned ROUNDUP. Best wishes.........Jennifer Jarvis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 05:31:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:15:34 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >Date: 05 Apr 97 12:27:35 EST >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:27:04 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Wit & Wisdom Of Armen Victorian >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Far, far more interesting topics, reports and incidents to contend with >than this. >>For example: The Sheffield, England 'event'. >A full report will feature in our May/June issue of UFO >Magazine. >It's easy to see how this case, heavily featured on both >local and national TV and newspapers, could be >manipulated into something it isn't. Agreed, although no references of the term 'UFO' could be attributed to us. > I suspect that the UFO press - and I would hope not Graham Birdsall's >UFO magazine - will be turning it into something rather >bigger than it is, desperate as they are for 'big' cases and >especially for some crash retrievals. The only time we become desperate is when two people elect to chose to visit the office loo at the same moment! Bird watchers were out in force when we visited South Yorkshire over the Easter weekend and they probably had a far better time of things than we - at least they had the sense not to climb imposing hills for a better view of things... No - the 'event' in South Yorkshire has been accurately reported in good faith and I didn't hesitate in being the first to inform David Clark that seismologists had recorded a sonic boom on the evening in question. The UAV 'link' came as a result of an RAF source telephone call the following day. We have explored other possibilities as well, including a certain hill-top smack bang in the centre of things that just happens to be used by microlight enthusiasts - triangular-shaped aeroforms make an interesting sight during twilight hours... Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Idaho sighting this a.m. From: dan syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:55:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:29:05 -0400 Subject: Idaho sighting this a.m. Just a brief note before I crawl off to bed: While driving home from work this morning I witnessed a large green fireball. I was driving in a southerly direction, away from Boise. It was approx. 06:10 Mt. time zone, and was still dark out. It was also partially overcast(strange weather Phenom??) Also, it was in the direction of the Gowen field training area(Nation Guard) out in the direction of their training ranges. It was travelling at a downward angle, but waaayyy too fast and too big to be any flare that I've every seen..... Anyone else hear of something like this in the Northwest this morning? Dan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Skywatch: Paul Bennewitz and the Aviary From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL" <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:03:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:35:35 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Paul Bennewitz and the Aviary ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:26:51 -0800 (PST) To: skywatch@phoenix.net From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com> Subject: ::: Paul Bennewitz and the Aviary ::: ::: Paul Bennewitz and the Aviary ::: - or - Aviary + (Bennewitz * 39) = Heavens Gate? [An Relatively Holy Excerpt from award-winning investigative journalist Howard Blum's 1990 icebreaker _Out There_] -=[ Excerptus Caeruleus ]=- "And for four years Bennewitz never suspected his friend of any sin worse than skepticism. Moore was the perfect spy. Why? That was the one question Moore kept asking himself as he, now an insider, observed the government's sustained campaign against Bennewitz. Why were Doty and the Falcon so intent on discrediting one solitary UFO crusader? [...] "...Moore had no doubts about the effectiveness of the government's disinformation program. Moore watched as Bennewitz was driven to the breaking point. As he was fed stories about evil and threatening grays, Bennewitz grew more emotional. He kept guns and knives hidden throughout his house. He had extra locks installed on his doors. He could not sleep. He turned his business over to his son. At lunch with Moore, Bennewitz, his hands shaking, his face as haggard as a skeleton's, told his friend that aliens were coming through his walls at night and injecting him with hideous chemicals. The chemicals knocked him out; he was very worried about what the aliens had done to him when he was unconscious. As he spoke, he smoked constantly. Moore, whose job was to be observant, counted each of the twenty- eight cigarettes Bennewitz had puffed in the course of the forty- five-minute meal. It was not long after that lunch that Bennewitz was hospitalized for exhaustion and fatigue. [...] "He [Moore] suppressed all his natural emotions: his anger and revulsion at Bennewitz's torture, his impatience with the Falcon's capriciousness, his eagerness to run to the media for help and protection. He let everything well up inside. He held it back, a fair trade, he felt, for his chance to 'learn the truth.' [...] "He called them, in deference to the Falcon, his first contact and his first stab at word code, 'the aviary.' He no longer had any doubts about their position, their power. [...] "And Moore, how did he feel about his tacit complicity in the government's plot against Bennewitz? Did he feel ashamed by his silence? By his betrayal of his friend? He has yet to comment, and his reluctance is understandable. Instead, he preferred to describe his work with Doty as an 'opportunity,' his spying on Bennewitz as 'the price I had to pay.' [...] "Keeping secrets is a habit. It is the way officials -- spies, generals, and scientists -- are taught to behave. Because some explanations are not simple. All is never explained. Because now that we are at the end of a politics of global conflict, as men and states abandon their allegiances to failed ideological gods, all that is left for a great nation to protect and believe in is its tattered secrets." -=[ End Excerptus Caeruleus ]=- With the sun beginning to set, the humpback Manzano foothills would cast long, broad shadows across Coyote Canyon. The sky would slowly start to bleed, turning from a deep, brilliant desert blue to a pastel shade, a faded denim color streaked with an irradiating red, until, at last, it all settled easily into a soft zinc gray. And then the lights would appear. In these last moments before the New Mexico night began, coming from somewhere in the west near Kirtland Air Force Base, the strange craft, their running lights aglow, began their maneuvers. They would fly in a circling formation in the dusk sky above the Manzano Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility, and next fly south toward the Coyote Canyon test area. Every evening they came. Their arrival was as regular as the sunsets, and no less spectacular. >From the deck of his house perched high in the Four Hills section of Albuquerque, Paul Bennewitz had a perfect view. Night after night, he paced the deck, an eight-millimeter movie camera in his hand, as he, with considerable anxiety, recorded the erratic, hovering flight paths of these craft. At the same time, his tracking antennas would also be at work, sweeping in unison across the sky. With lumbering deliberativeness, the huge antennas automatically rotated toward the ships, vectoring in on their flight. They moved clockwise, their rotors loudly grinding, until contact was made. Then banks of ultra-sensitive receivers -- lovingly hand-crafted machines, the cherished brainchildren of Bennewitz's own ingenious designs -- would come alive. A steady, low-frequency electromagnetic beep...beep...beep would fill his workroom. [cf. the silly historical treatise _A Message From Our Space Brothers via Shortwave Radio (ca. 1954) by Adamsky's friend and carnival barker, occultist George Hunt Williamson at http://www.brotherblue.org/libers/spacebro.htm -B:.B:.] The signal came in modulated pulses, loud and clear and well-defined like the exultant opening chords of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. He never doubted those strange craft were sending a message. Each night it was all recorded. There were over 2,600 feet of film. A locked filing cabinet held the tapes of months of encounters. These were Paul Bennewitz's clues and, after much painstaking analysis, his proof. They were the irrefutable cornerstones of his great discovery -- Project Beta. The insights that culminated in Project Beta, Bennewitz's grand theory about UFOs, first surfaced under hypnotic regression. It was 1979 and Dr. Leo Sprinkle, a New Mexico psychologist, was challenged by the story a deeply troubled female patient had revealed under hypnosis. From the very depths of her subconscious, she had purged herself of a most remarkable tale. She had been abducted by aliens. Dr. Sprinkle believed her, and he did not believe her. Filled, then, with a sense of concern and fascination, as well as skepticism, he decided to consult his friend Dr. Paul Bennewitz. It was his hope that Bennewitz, an accomplished physicist, a prodigious inventor, a man of science with a wizard's mind as well as a soft, sympathetic spot for all talk about UFOs, might be able to contribute some insightful analysis. Bennewitz was most definitely interested, and the woman was eager for whatever help he -- or anyone -- might offer. It was arranged that Bennewitz would be present during her hypnosis. The sessions continued for three months. The woman would slip into a trance easily, her eyes nearly closed, her voice a low monotone; and then, under Dr. Sprinkle's prodding, more and more of her repressed encounter would come forth. Moments before her abduction, she recalled as the two men listened, she had witnessed a bizarre ritual. The aliens were killing cattle, draining the beasts of their blood. She saw it all. That was why they took her. They took her to their ship and she was forced to watch as the aliens did strange things, things she couldn't quite understand, things she still didn't quite recall, with the cattle and with the blood. And then they did things to her. As Paul Bennewitz listened over the course of those months to the woman's agonized tale, he did not at first know what to make of it. But the more he mulled it over, he became convinced -- absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt -- that she was telling the truth. No one, he felt, could be that good an actress. Her pain was genuine. But there were still crucial pieces missing from her story. It was necessary, Bennewitz realized, his own fears building, to learn what the aliens had done to this poor woman. He urged Dr. Sprinkle on. The facts, however, were buried too deep, were too successfully repressed. Yet Bennewitz was unyielding. He was convinced those lost moments aboard the spacecraft were the keys to understanding the motives of the aliens. His task was apparent. What the victim couldn't remember, the rescuer -- and by now he saw himself in that role -- would discover. So piece by piece, part observation, part scientist's logic, part instinct, he over many months came to an understanding about what had happened. The aliens had surgically implanted mind- control devices in the woman's skull. They could see what she saw. They could hear what she heard. They could control her every move. Bennewitz was terrified. Still, goaded on by what was at stake, in a state of constant alert, he conceived Project Beta. His careful and documented monitoring of the alien ships flying over the New Mexico desert, and the messages they were sending to control their victims, began. >From the start, rumors full of mystery and promise involving Project Beta swirled through the tightly bonded communities of kindred thinkers who lived across the Southwest. And so, looking at subsequent events from this perspective, perhaps it was inevitable that Bill Moore's and Paul Bennewitz's paths should cross. Nevertheless, it wasn't until 1981, after Project Beta had been in operation for nearly two years, that a curious Moore, now a director at the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO), a Tucson-based group of UFO investigators, drove east from Arizona to the scientist's home in Albuquerque. His assignment was to evaluate Bennewitz's findings. Moore, who prided himself on his ability to size people up, found much to admire in the scientist. Bennewitz, mesmerizingly articulate, able to pepper any conversation with seemingly inexhaustible flourishes of esoteric information, had the confident manner of a man who had grown up being the smartest boy in the class. And yet there was also something disquieting about him. Moore found his intensity -- a trait many would agree Moore could analyze with considerable authority -- especially disconcerting. It was as if Bennewitz felt his role was to serve as one of history's not so silent witnesses; or, perhaps he even saw himself as a prophet, one of those high- minded souls whose nagging earnestness was meant to call lesser lives into question [you catchin' all this, Ed "Make a Dent in History" Dames? -B:.B:.]. Whatever it was, it rankled Moore. He preferred to take Bennewitz in small doses. As for Project Beta, Moore viewed the footage of the hovering lights and listened to the tapes of recorded messages. It was undeniable that Bennewitz had seen and heard something; the films clearly depicted unusual lights maneuvering near the Sandia National Labs complex, a classified Department of Energy facility on the Kirtland base. And, just as certainly, Bennewitz's receivers had been monitoring odd low-frequency electronic signals. But Moore was not at all convinced that these "discoveries" had anything at all to do with UFOs. The strange craft might be, he reasoned, nothing more ominous than Air Force helicopters or perhaps even some sort of experimental plane. Similarly, Moore found it difficult to accept that the signals were alien radio transmissions. Bennewitz's highly touted computer-generated decoding program was based, as best Moore could tell, on the sort of shaky assumptions that would just as readily have translated the pulses of Morse code into an extraterrestrial monologue. Moore returned to Arizona and announced to APRO that as far as he was concerned Bennewitz was a dedicated researcher who just didn't seem to have the emotional objectivity to sort, as he noted with deadpan candor, "the shit from the candy." Still, over the years Moore remained in touch with Bennewitz and the two men became friends; after all, they were involved in the same quest. And it was with a mixture of amusement and bewilderment that Moore watched as Project Beta evolved into an all-encompassing theory. What had started with some fragile conjectures about mind-controlling aliens had, Moore would state with a sigh, "blossomed into a tale which rivaled the wildest science fiction scenario anyone could possibly imagine." According to Bennewitz -- and supported, he insisted with unshakable ferocity, by his research -- two opposing forces of aliens had invaded the United States. The white aliens wanted intergalactic brotherhood; they came to this planet in peace. However, the malevolent group, the grays, were in control. It was the grays who were responsible for the cattle mutilations, the human abductions, and the implanting of mind-control devices in humans. The government was not only aware of this, but had also negotiated a secret treaty with these invaders. The grays were granted the right to establish an underground base beneath Archuleta Peak near Dulce in northwestern New Mexico, and in return the military had received a shipment of extraterrestrial weapons. But then an atomic-powered alien spaceship crashed on Archuleta Peak. The grays suspected sabotage. And, Bennewitz was convinced after decoding radio transmissions, the treaty was about to be broken. The angry grays were preparing for nothing short of total war. It was a theory that Bennewitz, in his own mind another Paul Revere, was devoted to circulating. He attempted to contact not just UFO researchers like Moore, but also congressmen, military commanders, members of the scientific establishment, and even the President. "Instead of withholding judgment until all of the facts were in, Paul insisted on repeatedly going off half- cocked to anyone who would listen," Moore complained. The way Moore saw it, Bennewitz was "his own worst enemy." It would not be until months later, after Moore was recruited by the Falcon and given his assignment by Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent Richard Doty, that Moore would realize Bennewitz had a more formidable enemy -- the government of the United States. Disinformation, as the Soviet term desinformatsiya was quickly anglicized by admiring Western intelligence agencies, is the propagation of false, incomplete, or misleading information to targeted individuals. But for a disinformation campaign to be truly successful, it must accomplish two related goals. One, the target must act on these new "facts." And two, the target must be irrevocably diverted from the more fruitful path he had previously been following. For the past three years, since 1980, Bill Moore learned from AFOSI agent Doty, counterintelligence officers from a variety of agencies had been running a disinformation campaign against Paul Bennewitz. The purpose of the exercise -- or so Moore would remember being told by a gloating Doty -- was systematically to confuse, discourage, and discredit Bennewitz. Their work had been remarkably successful. It was government agents, pretending to be friendly co-conspirators or using other, more convoluted covers, who had first passed on to a gullible Bennewitz "official" documents and stories detailing the secret treaty between the U.S. government and evil aliens, the existence of underground alien bases, the exchanges of technology, the wave of brain implants, and even the tale about the spaceship that had crashed into Archuleta Peak. These "facts" became the linchpins of his grand theory; and, fulfilling all the government's hopes, Project Beta -- the filming of airship maneuvers in the vicinity of nuclear bases and the monitoring of the unusual signals emanating from these craft -- had been now relegated to a secondary concern. And now agent Doty wanted Moore to join the government's team. He assigned Moore to spy on Bennewitz. Moore's job was to report on a regular basis to Doty about the effectiveness of the government's disinformation campaign. Did Bennewitz still believe all the wild tales that had been passed on to him? For four years Moore kept a careful watch on his friend. For four years he listened mutely as Bennewitz complained that his phone was tapped, that his office had been broken into. Moore, the dutiful recruit, even passed on to Bennewitz the "Aquarius Document," an actual classified AFOSI message that had been skillfully doctored -- by Doty? the Falcon? Moore never asked -- to prove that an alien invasion was at hand. And for four years Bennewitz never suspected his friend of any sin worse than skepticism. Moore was the perfect spy. Why? That was the one question Moore kept asking himself as he, now an insider, observed the government's sustained campaign against Bennewitz. Why were Doty and the Falcon so intent on discrediting one solitary UFO crusader? The truth was never explained to Moore. He wondered if AFOSI had simply picked Bennewitz at random, that he was an unlucky target of an ongoing counterintelligence teaching exercise. Or, perhaps Bennewitz had actually been filming UFOs from his sun deck; the government's long cover-up was jeopardized and, therefore, Bennewitz -- and his film and tapes -- must be discredited at all costs. Or, equally plausible, it was possible that Project Beta had been monitoring a top-secret military training program, and a plan to discourage anyone else -- foreign spies as well as believers in UFOs -- from paying too much attention to these maneuvers was quickly conceived. Moore would never know. But whatever the reasons behind it, Moore had no doubts about the effectiveness of the government's disinformation program. Moore watched as Bennewitz was driven to the breaking point. As he was fed stories about evil and threatening grays, Bennewitz grew more emotional. He kept guns and knives hidden throughout his house. He had extra locks installed on his doors. He could not sleep. He turned his business over to his son. At lunch with Moore, Bennewitz, his hands shaking, his face as haggard as a skeleton's, told his friend that aliens were coming through his walls at night and injecting him with hideous chemicals. The chemicals knocked him out; he was very worried about what the aliens had done to him when he was unconscious. As he spoke, he smoked constantly. Moore, whose job was to be observant, counted each of the twenty-eight cigarettes Bennewitz had puffed in the course of the forty-five-minute meal. It was not long after that lunch that Bennewitz was hospitalized for exhaustion and fatigue. And Moore, how did he feel about his tacit complicity in the government's plot against Bennewitz? Did he feel ashamed by his silence? By his betrayal of his friend? He has yet to comment, and his reluctance is understandable. Instead, he preferred to describe his work with Doty as an " opportunity," his spying on Bennewitz as "the price I had to pay." And, if one looked at it in such hard, pragmatic terms, it was a moment of high achievement. Moore had penetrated a cadre of top-level U.S. intelligence agents who were involved with UFOs. His course was set: "I would play the disinformation game, get my hands dirty just often enough to lead those directing the process into believing that I was doing exactly what they wanted me to do, and all the while continue to burrow my way into the matrix so as to learn as much as possible about who was directing it and why." [...] He called them, in deference to the Falcon, his first contact and his first stab at word code, "the aviary." He no longer had any doubts about their position, their power. - - - - - Another fine post by: Blue Resonant Human, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Phoenix Lights - Update From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 08:09:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:26:30 -0400 Subject: Phoenix Lights - Update PHOENIX LIGHTS - UPDATE At the risk of flaying a live horse...the Phoenix sightings are alive and well with new revelations coming in. Strange Universe was back in town. Tonight (Monday) they will air parts of the first segment, then next Monday, a new segment that will contain interesting new revelations. Last week I believed I had discovered 3 events that took place on the night of March 13th. Now I believe there to be 4 events. The fourth event was witnessed by a truck driver making a delivery near Lunk AFB on the west side of the valley. He observed large amber lights he called objects that appeared to be the size of the large hot-air balloons that we often see during the day over our valley. However, these had no hanging gondolas and were illuminated from within. These were accompanied by a pulsing a red ring of light. He witnessed 3 jets take-off from Luke around 10 P.M. with afterburners flaming, climb to the north, turn and head toward the unknown objects. The objects acclerated quickly when the jets closed then passed through empty air where the objects had been hovering! Ahhh, but spokesmen from Luke AFB said: 1) They received no calls about strange lights on the night in question 2) They did not send up any jets (though we heard reports they were sent up) 3) They do not fly jets at night unless they have special operations And yet, a Colonel at Luke, when called by Strange Universe producer Arte Shamamien, replied that maybe some rogue pilot was flying over the urban areas with a light rig to fool people! Huh! The Governor of the state was called as well as the mayor of Phoenix and the local FAA office. What was this now, uhhh, you say happened on March 13th? Our governor was not informed. Neither was the mayor. As for getting the tapes from Skyharbor, by the time an FOIA process is initiated, the tapes could be recycled, but then the tower said nothing showed up on radar. Another pair of witnesses in Mesa who saw event 2, the huge black triangle, saw it without lights! Most witnesses saw it moving slowly with 7 lights on, now two saw it between locations flying fast without lights! If you receive the television show "Strange Universe" on UPN, please try to watch it next Monday night or get a friend to tape it. UFOs are real, especially when they get up close and personal. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Asst. State Director MUFON AZ Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Lee Shargel on ITN (UK) From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 00:19:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:00:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Lee Shargel on ITN (UK) >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:27:23 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: Lee Shargel on ITN (UK) >To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> >[This is posted as an exception to the no >'Heaven's Gate' rule - ebk] ... >Unfortunately, Shargel spoke in similar tones on the ITN >news broacast of the CBS feature. He appears to have >learned nothing and is, in my opinion, an extremely >dangerous runaway train that should be derailed as soon >as possible - beginning I would suggest with a total >blank cancellation of future speaking engagements at any >and all venues worldwide. Just how does anyone go about seeing to it that Shargel's speaking engagements are canceled? For pete's sake, this guy is a SF writer with a knack for getting into the media limelight. Does it matter to the gullible public that actual hard proof of Shargel's claims are vapor, that his "record of alleged employment at NASA" is a bald faced lie and his "Dolphinoid ET" tales are just the worst kind of tabloid trash? Apparently not. One of the individuals I'm familiar with that do do some follow-up on Shargel's activities got a stiff email from Shargel not long ago once Shargel got wind what was being circulated about his dubious claims, and threatened to sue him. It seems to me having read this recurring "I'll sue you for slander" theme that popped up on this list between Stan Friedman, et al and minor titters of "who cares?" minutia from "Armen Victorian", that to go out on a limb to call a spade a spade suffers certain consequences. I don't see it any different with someone of Shargel's ilk. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:31:22 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:31:37 -0400 > In my experience, the skeptical view is based on circular reasoning. Since >they KNOW there aren't any real UFOs, obviously flaps must be caused by the >media. And then the belief that flaps are caused by the media becomes yet >another argument for the non-existence of UFOS...which proves once more >that flaps are caused sociologically.... Greg, IMO, what you describe as a skeptical view, is in actuality a nonbeliever view. I consider myself skeptical, yet I do not KNOW anything for sure -- whether it be sociological, real, hoax, or whatever. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 AUFORA Discussion From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 97 02:01:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:23:33 -0400 Subject: AUFORA Discussion Greetings subscriber, As you know, AUFORA News Update is not a discussion list. We simply find relevant news articles and press releases and send them to your email. Understandably, this does not sate your natural desire for discussion and debate! Now, you can unleash your wish to ask questions, to argue and to discuss in the spirit of the internet in AUFORA's new discussion forum!! http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ Here you can ask whatever questions you like, propose whatever theories you create, and debate with whomever you happen to find! AUFORA Discussion is brand new, so naturally messages are not abundant. However, with your help, we hope to build a popular, and effective discussion area. So come and visit, and post a few messages! Thanks, Dave Watanabe AUFORA http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ (Why not link to AUFORA Discussions?) __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 14:52:19 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:56:14 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report >Date: 04 Apr 97 23:26:32 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >Subject: ABC's 20/20 report Bob Shell wrote: >Hi everyone, >Earlier I had alerted Ray Santilli that 20/20 on ABC was > going to broadcast their story on the alien autopsy >film tonight. Ray phoned me twice today to discuss >this, and I agreed to watch the segment and prepare a >brief report for him. I expected the segment to be a >hatchet job because I knew that not a single person on >the pro side of the fence had been interviewed. But I >had not expected to see something as badly done as I >saw. You're being a bit tough on ABC Bob. After all, can you name a single credible source who considers the Santilli alien autopsy video to be authentic? >On the whole I think we can congratulate ABS News, reporter >Bob Brown and producer Joe Pfifferling for foisting off a >load of very offensive bullshit on the American public. Since most people with a functioning neuron are skeptical of the Santilli AA video, perhaps you can explain just what exactly about this video that you, as a self-proclaimed photography expert, find to be so convincing. Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Teheran 1976 From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:52:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:46:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Teheran 1976 >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:16:06 -0400 >From: Drew Williamson <werd@INTERLOG.COM> >Subject: Teheran 1976 >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >I am attempting to find any information on the Sept. 1976 Teheran "landing" >case for another investigator. I have already sent him the relevant pages >from Fawcett and Greenwoods' book, "Clear Intent", or The UFO Cover-up'" >(your pick). A great book, and a couple of great researcher/investigators. The Tehran incident has been one that my partner and I have been interested in for quite some time. It is one of the few cases that is clearly backed up by by not only civilian witness reports, but also by instrumentation readings and military documentation. >I understand that there was a satellite confirmation of this event found. >Any idea where I could get this? Not just ANY ol' satellite, but by the DSP platform (used to spot scuds in the Gulf war). >Any other info or references to info would be greatly appreciated. We've done a treatise on the Tehran case, as well as the Belgium case; both have outstanding documentation. I hope EBK won't strip the signature at the bottom of this message, as you can follow the link to our web site. Not only will this give you a good groundwork for the case, but it will no doubt give you ideas to follow up on regarding the Iranian incident. Our buddy Don Ecker is a wealth of information on this subject, but hard to get hold of, heh heh. Good luck and happy hunting! This one is well worth the time and effort that one might put into researching it. Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Search for other documents from or mentioning: infohead | werd |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Caution - UFO Radiation From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:18:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:25:51 -0400 Subject: Caution - UFO Radiation "UNCONVENTIONAL FLYING OBJECTS" by Paul R. Hill. Hampton Roads Publishing Inc. 1995. ISBN: 1-57174-027-9 Extract from the chapter headed: SECTION IV: "HOW HOT IS UFO RADIATION?" CONCLUSION AND COMMENT: From the analysis in this section, I conclude that UFO's radiate between 25 electron volts, which is the bottom of the x-ray band, and 3 million electron volts, which is into the lower end of the gamma ray spectrum. This radiation readily accounts for the radiation sickness reported in various cases, because the radiation data taken by Bill Rogers indicates not only that the radiation is a type to cause trouble, but that it has adequate intensity to be very serious. It is furthermore noted that x-rays or mild gamma rays are quite adequate to cause the ion-sheath so universally seen surrounding the UFO. Conversely, the existence of the ionized air around the UFO lends weight to the concept of high-intensity x-ray type radiations from the UFO. X-rays would also penetrate a few inches of soil, giving up their energy to plant-root depths. Soil being a thermal insulator, the heat would escape slowly and the temperature would build up with time below a low-hovering UFO. Most ground heating data is from saucer-type UFOs, and these are the ones known to focus their ionizing radiations downward with considerable accuracy, because of the observed saucer ion cones and saucer ring data. By way of review, we further note that the visible colors come from the ionized atmosphere surrounding the UFO, not from the UFO, except by reflection from the UFO surface, as noted by Frabush (Example III-B2). The same is true for the intense ultraviolet that gives the skin burns when the telltale strong blue of strong nitrogen ionization is present. ******************************************************************************** ****** N O T E: It is probably very clear to most people that we are right in the middle of a huge wave of sightings around the world. CAUTIONARY NOTE: Maybe we should all be very careful when attempting close-range observation of these objects!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 12:06:13 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:33:00 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:57:56 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU > To: >updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: 20/20 Mac wrote: >"Blown the Santilli autopsy off as being bogus" for _no good reason_. >There are very good arguments to be made for the authenticity of the >footage as well as issues that detract from its authenticity. But I >can't think of one _conclusive_ aspect that makes the Santilli >footage bogus. The "experts" are unable to offer anything more useful >than, essentially, personal opinions and "gut feelings." >I'm in total agreement that "20/20's" coverage was belated and >inadequate. But I think it would be terribly bad journalism to >dedicate a segment to the unreality of the Santilli footage in >the absence of empirical confirmation of te fact--now or two >years ago. The primary reason for skepticism about the Santilli alien autopsy video is not so much due to the contents of the video itself (which, while intriguing, has numerous points for contention) as for the constant evasions, mis-statements and lies offered by the video's proponents. This scam would be much harder to dismiss if these guys could just get their stories straight ("What a tangled web we weave..."). The entire debate over the video's provenance could easily be settled if Santilli would only submit a film sample for testing. The fact that Santilli has refused to do this (despite frequent claims to the contrary) is the most damning evidence that the video is a hoax. >In light of this, "20/20" should never have attempted a UFO >documentary at all. And it pains me to see the Santilli footage >(a genuine unknown) equated with the lunatic fringe. To be fair, the 20/20 piece was not a "UFO documentary." It narrowly focused on how an "alien autopsy" video could be faked -- and with much more convincing visual results than Santilli's video offers. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 14:25:05 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:54:43 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 05 Apr 97 17:00:16 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >Subject: Expert comment >I thought all of you on my mailing list would be interested in >the comments of a VERY experienced cinematographer and journalist >who watched the ABC 20/20 program last night. I can put any >legitimate researcher in touch with him if they need to verify >this. Hi Bob, Perhaps you can pass these questions along to your anonymous "expert." >Maybe ABC would try to evade a "copyright infringement" suit on >the basis that they're a "news organization." However, since >the 20/20 segment was quite devoid of news, I wonder if they >could make that defense stick? Why should you care one way or another about the copyright question -- unless, of course, you have a financial interest at stake. After all, if the footage was official US Government property as alleged, how could Santilli rightfully claim copyright except as a fictional work of art? >I found it particularly irksome that they said, words to the >effect of "the assertion that the film was authenticaled by >Kodak is false." I've never heard anyone claim that Kodak >authenticated the film. On the contrary, I've heard nothing but >irritation, over the fact that Kodak's requirements for testing >the film have grown from simple to elaborate, to a degree of >complexity that is almost impossible to satisfy. >Nobody has said Kodak authenticated the film, yet 20/20 says >that people who say Kodak authenticated the film are incorrect. >In other words, 20/20 invents a premise, then disputes it. If >it weren't such a desperate maneuver on their part, it would be >funny Either you're misinformed or deliberately overlooking Santilli's early claim that Kodak had verified the age of the "film" (quotation marks because nobody has yet seen the actual AA "film" -- only video). >That is probably why 20/20 declined to speak to you, and had to >pirate the footage. Their entire charade of building an "alien" >of their own makes sense only if they've established that the >film is new, not 1947 stock. The question has never been >whether we can reproduce an "alien" like the one in the autopsy >footage using modern materials, and shoot it on modern film. >The question has always been, could it have been done using 1947 >materials. 20/20 didn't dare address that, so they evaded and >distorted the question. No, the question is: What is the age of the "film"? Until that simple, basic and easily verified question is answered, the subject of SFX techniques available at a particular time is moot. >Had 20/20 interviewed you, they also might have reported that you >have sought the assistance of other film manufacturers in >conducting destruct tests that could authenticate the film. By >coincidence, I was present in the autumn of 1996, in Europe, when >you made such a request. Mr. Shell has repeatedly demonstrated that he is either: a)overcredulous in pronouncing the "film" to be authentic based on nothing other than the say-so of Mr. Santilli; or b)a shameless PR flack for Ray Santilli. Other than for possibly re-enacting his legendary "sniff" analysis, why would 20/20 want to interview Mr. Shell? >All I've ever heard about authenticating the film is that it >contains code markings that indicate it would have been >manufactured in 1927, '47, or ' 67. This has always been >represented, by you and others, as evidence in the direction of >authenticity, but not authentication as such. Yes, those edge-code markings would have been useful. Unfortunately, the edge-codes were conveniently torn from the film samples that Mr.Shell says he examined. Again, we are left with only Mr. Santilli's word regarding those edge-codes, aren't we? >By ignoring these fundamental facts, 20/20 has ceased delivering >news, and instead is writing science fiction. >Since 20/20 has such a low regard for accepted journalistic >procedures and standards of conduct in this report, I have to >assume their other reports are equally flawed. I must now >question, for example, whether there was actually sexual >harassment at Smith Barney, as an earlier segment asserted, or >whether it was simply made-up to suit ABC's own agenda [for >example, one of the sponsors of the show was another investment >house]. Since a more balanced presentation of the "autopsy" >footage was presented by the rival Fox Network, one assumes ABC >has more than the pursuit of journalistic truth on their >agenda. >And I remember when Hugh Downs was considered the "intellectual" >amid the "vast wasteland." >>sigh<<. You are apparently more comfortable in enthusiastically embracing the "journalistic truth" spooned-out by Merlin Productions (aka Ray Santilli & Co.). Shucks, Gomer, why would $antilli lie? >>sigh<< >McGovern is also paraphrased [not quoted] on the show, that "a >professional cameraman would have found one camera position and >stuck to it," or words to that effect, rather than moving around >with a hand-held camera. >This statement is ludicrous, as it's quite clear that no single >camera position in that small room could have been occupied very >long, without someone blocking the shot. It becomes obvious >from the outset that the movement of the doctors and nurse >required the cameraman to be hand-holding, and mobile the >entire time. Col McGovern might have been a military cameraman >for a long time, but I can't imagine he was a very good one. I see. The very real and fully verified McGovern is much less credible than the alleged mystery man/alien autopsy cameraman -- whatever his real name might be? Jeeze, you guys are shameless. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 07 Apr 97 14:46:03 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:41:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:09:15 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: "Beyond Belief" >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> James, I have just spent the past three days correcting page proofs of _Beyond Roswell_. Much of it has been revised based on feedback on the Nexus article. Don't you think it would be more useful to wait until the book has been published, and to make your comments based on the final printed text?? >The "we" referred to is what Hesemann terms "The International >Research Team" (IRT), essentially composed of Philip Mantle, >Shell and himself. The IRT which we set up consists of Michael Hesemann, Philip Mantle, Maurizio Baiata, myself, and a few others. It is an informal group, and we have no membership card, certificate, secret handshake, or decoder rings. Just a common interest in giving the AA film a fair hearing. >Shell had apparently simply telephoned the Rockefeller Archives and >one other location and as Stanton Friedman explained to me, "I had >been to the Rockefeller Archives many years ago and found their >holdings on Bronk not very exciting...there was much classified work >that really isn't reflected at the Rockefeller holdings...there are >other holdings at many other places where he served". So, James, are you saying that you have done no research by telephone. If this disqualifies my research on this point, it must also disqualify any and all other research done by telephone. Actually, while my contact with Rockefeller Institute was by telephone, another researcher who has been working with me did go there personally, and another had a correspondence with an archivist there. It was confirmed by these researchers that the archive has very complete holdings of Dr. Bronk's papers for other years, but that for 1947 all they have is a couple of personal letters in which he discusses his vacation for the following year. No this is not conclusive proof of anything, but coupled with much other circumstantial evidence is very suggestive. >As further evidence, Hesemann cites the nearby "Niggerhead Mine", >which he states the cameraman claims was, "reopened by the US >Government (Department of the Interior), but with no further mining, >on the very day the retrieval began: 1st June 1947". >To my knowledge, Ray Santilli has never said that the "cameraman" >made this claim. >How would the "cameraman" have known anyway? I agree that Michael misspoke here. I don't think the cameraman ever mentioned the mine. However, the reopening of the mine at just this time when it had been shut down for years is another piece of circumstantial evidence. As you know, Michael and I disagree on the crash site, an it should be noted that the Niggerhead mine is three miles down the canyon from Mike's site. I suspect the actual site of being much closer to the mine, if it is indeed anywhere in this canyon. The cameraman very specifically says it was on the side of a dry lake bed, and careful reading of the geological appraisal of the area in the government report on the Niggerhead deposits finds no mention of any dry lake beds in this are. The only dry lake beds in the area are closer to the Plains of San Agustin, which is where I would look for the crash site if I went back out there. However, I have neither the time nor the funds to go "prospecting' in the desert again. >The second witness cited is "Sgt Clifford Stone", who claims that due >to an incredible security lapse, he was inadvertently allowed a >grandstand viewing of the footage during his time with the USAF. His >clandestine observation discovered, Stone was subjected to an >"intensified debriefing which took four nights and five days". >Stone, a seasoned promoter of stories about secret US government pacts >with the "greys" and underground "alien" bases, etc. and who >apparently believes that, "the greys will eventually come forth and >try to state that they created Christ", is no stranger to >extraordinary claims. >Surprising therefore that he didn't apparently speak of his alleged >1969, Fort Belvoir, Virginia ordeal, sometime during the 25 or so >years prior to the "alien autopsy" film appearing on US TV. Linda Moulton Howe has verified that Stone did discuss this prior to the AA film becoming public. Not only that, but he drew for her a graphic sketch in which a six-fingered hand and arm are clearly shown. This is the first mention, so far as I know, of a six fingered alien being shown on Air Force film. >As much of what was reportedly said could be open to considerable >interpretation, and wary of McAndrew's apparent reputation for >speaking with tongue firmly planted in cheek, it's a pity this wasn't >foreseen to be a potentially significant discussion and recorded for >later analysis. With the "intelligence grapevine" being somewhat >inadmissible evidence, it seems all we can conclude is that Shell >called Captain McAndrew and a conversation took place. If you are going to tell a story, tell all of it. The person I spoke with said that if the conversation became public knowledge, he would deny that it ever happened. When it was subsequently leaked by someone I had discussed it with in private, he denied having the conversation. However he must have forgotten that he talked with Phil Klass the following day, and mentioned the conversation with me to Phil. I have no way of knowing if what this source told me has even a grain of truth in it, but the conversation did occur and in it he did confirm that some of the AA film was real. Incidentally, Jesse Marcel has told me recently that this man told him that he would deny conversations if certain parts were made public. >In any research, a cursory search of the resources offered by the >internet should perhaps be a prerequisite and some 30 seconds after >doing so, I easily located a number of references to the much maligned >Mr Retter, including the report of a conversation with him. Again, you miss my point. I did the internet bit some time ago, and spent time on the phone with people at the DataHand company. Mr. Retter was not available when I called and did not return my calls. The person who was looking into this for me is a retired police officer with many years experience in investigation. He simply told me that he can find no records that Dale Retter really exists and suspects it is a pseudonym. He is still looking into it. The reason this is important is that a number of patents on the DataHand and other things have been filed under the name of Dale J. Retter, and under US law it is illegal to apply for a patent under a false name. There are two exceptions: an attorney can apply under his/her name for a client who wishes to remain anonymous, but the patent papers clearly reveal this, and the US Government can apply for patents under assumed names without the need to disclose this. It is too early in this to make a statement that Dale J. Retter is a pseudonym for a government agency, but that possibility exists. I am not accusing Retter of anything at this point, just looking for the truth. As you should know, James, finding someone on the internet does not in any way extablish that such a person really exists! My friend also says he has found a link between Retter and a firm which manufactures micro-transmitters used for tracking people and animals. These transmitters are frequently emplanted under the skin. Again, this is suggestive, but proves nothing. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment > Date: 05 Apr 97 17:00:16 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: Expert comment > I thought all of you on my mailing list would be interested in > the comments of a VERY experienced cinematographer and journalist > who watched the ABC 20/20 program last night. I can put any > legitimate researcher in touch with him if they need to verify > this. > McGovern is also paraphrased [not quoted] on the show, that "a > professional cameraman would have found one camera position and > stuck to it," or words to that effect, rather than moving around > with a hand-held camera. > This statement is ludicrous, as it's quite clear that no single > camera position in that small room could have been occupied very > long, without someone blocking the shot. It becomes obvious from > the outset that the movement of the doctors and nurse required > the cameraman to be hand-holding, and mobile the entire time. > Col McGovern might have been a military cameraman for a long > time, but I can't imagine he was a very good one. Just to keep the pot boiling here Bob, a few observations of my own. My experience with cameramen and I employ them from time to time and have a couple of them working for me full time, is that they rule the roost when they are up and running. Particularly the pros. Alien or no alien, when he wants the shot he/she will go through heaven and hell to get it. The one thing that impressed me about the Santilli footage is the deference shown to the "doctors" by the cameraman. It's total BS. I believe McGovern to be right, the cameraman would have set up at least on sticks with a decent 16 mm camera, lighted the bejesus out of the area and warned the good "doctors" to stay out of the shot, otherwise what is the point of him being there. If the 20/20 thing was inaccurate about something it was probably having McGovern standing there with the little spring wound camera when the real cameraman would have probably had access to much more sophisticated equipment. Don't forget, a lot of these military cameramen came right out of the movie industry to begin with and would have been a great deal more professional in their approach than the Santilli cameraman was. Don Ledger dledger@istar.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Planetary Update April 5, 1997 From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 07 Apr 97 19:09:55 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:04:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Planetary Update April 5, 1997 >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:56:24 -0700 >To: planmyst@planetarymysteries.com >From: planmyst@planetarymysteries.com (Kynthia / Sterling) >Subject: Planetary Update April 5, 1997 Someone wrote; >We used the Hale-Bopp window to do the very best we could do within the >imaginary and real constraints placed on us. Those constraints are about to >disappear however, and having seen what we've just done, I can only urge >you to keep your eyes on the PAYLOAD that has just separated from the >tumbling booster that is the past. I take it that it will be a while before the fat lady sings on this urban legend. Shouldn't we, in the interest of keeping this alive, intimate that it's a great big monolith, or would Arthur C sue? JaMeS a DISS,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: 'Expert' comment From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 18:20:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:58:18 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment Regarding... >Date: 05 Apr 97 17:00:16 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Expert comment Bob wrote: >I thought all of you on my mailing list would be interested in the >comments of a VERY experienced cinematographer and journalist who >watched the ABC 20/20 program last night. Bob, As this journalist is so obviously grossly misinformed, why not address that instead. >I found it particularly irksome that they said, words to the effect >of "the assertion that the film was authenticaled by Kodak is false." >I've never heard anyone claim that Kodak authenticated the film. >From a recent edition of UK magazine, "The X Factor": "The "X Factor" asked music and film producer Santilli if the autopsy film had been authenticated". "Yes. Pieces of the film were sent to Kodak for analysis. They've confirmed that it dates from 1947". More baloney. >On the contrary, I've heard nothing but irritation, over the fact >that Kodak's requirements for testing the film have grown from simple >to elaborate, to a degree of complexity that is almost impossible to >satisfy. I've already highlighted that in 1995 Santilli told Mantle he had no intention of providing any meaningful film and that during the CompuServe MUFON conference on 24 March, 1996, Santilli said that as he didn't trust "an American corporation with lucrative defence contracts", Kodak would _never_ be involved in any film testing. As you acknowledged this was a situation you "knew nothing about until after the fact", you will understand if your continual promotion of a distorted view of the truth has become tiresome. You don't think it's maybe the case that Santilli has been conning you all along, like when he gave you the bogus story that Rank in London had processed the film? With all the concern about Ray's copyright, I don't suppose the IRT have got around yet to troubling Ray for an explanation about that little anomaly? James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #15 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:04:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:03:46 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #15 Welcome to a Special Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #15. (Members 1266 on 7-4-97) Both Mark and myself (stuart) are very happy to announce a new addition to the page, one which has taken a lot of hard work to produce, not only from the Author ilyes, but also Mark in desining it for the page. So we Welcome you all to An Hypothesis! Most folks who work with the Circle Energies have very definite ideas about Who the CircleMakers are, Why the Formations are Arriving now, and the nature of the information the Circles are conveying to us. In addition to the questions above, one in particular I've been attempting to ferret out the answers to is: If I were a stalk of grain standing in a field, what Energies would have to act upon me, and how would they have to physically move me, to cause me to end up as the various stalks do inside the Formations (layered, snapped off, twisted, bundled, pulled upward, angled along the perimeter) - and always with adjacent seedheads perfectly aligned? In words and photos, I've recorded some of the answers I've received to my questions in "An Hypothesis: The Transmission of a CropCircle". Click on the cover, and journey to the Formations with me .... http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/ilyes.html - ilyes April 6, 1997 (1000 days to 2000) All the best You will find the Monograph, linked onto the What's New page, and also ilyes Homepage. We hope you enjoy it, and find it stimulating for the coming of the new 1997 Crop Circle season. Also on this update, we are linking to Martin Keitel's Crop Circle Web Site, in Finland who has compiled another analysis of the Oliver's Castle Video. We recommend you follow the link on the What's New page, to his lastest addition on the continuing saga of this controversial event! Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Maurice Chatelaine? From: ecoent@gbd.com (Frank Saul) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:12:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:23:55 -0400 Subject: Maurice Chatelaine? To the list: Does anyone know of a book by the title: "Are UFO's Real" ? (something like that) The author is a former NASA scientist with a French name:" Maurice Chatelaine"??? The book contains complex diagrams of the Egyptian pyramid locations, as well as the "universal constance" formula for math./geometry. Thanks, Frank Saul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Paul R. Hill From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:56:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:02:20 -0400 Subject: Paul R. Hill > Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 00:56:59 -0400 > From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > CC: Masinaigan@aol.com > Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 14 > Regarding the information provided in the above volume of UFO ROUNDUP, I > would like to put the record straight, somewhat. > 3. I have NEVER made any reference to the "power"level of these > objects. However, it is probably time to make some comments on this. > According to Paul R. Hill in his book "UNCONVENTIONAL FLYING OBJECTS - A > SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS," Hampton Roads Publishing Co.Inc.,1995. ISBN > 1-57174-027-9, none of the characteristics that we have been watching > over the last two weeks are inexplicable in the context of known > physics. Jennifer Jarvis has referred to Paul R. Hill at least a couple times and thereby (as far as I'm concerned) stationed herself on solid ground when it comes to making observations of UFOs and their characteristics. To my mind, anyone in the area of UFO research should read the book and reasoned research done by this capable scientist beginning back in the early fifties after he had his own sighting in 1952. As an aeronautical engineer working out of Langley Field in Virginia from the late forties and hence NASA in his later years he became an unofficial clearing house for UFO reports in that agency (though not sanctioned by it) for many years. I would place him in the same rank as Hynek, MacDonald and Wilbert Smith. Hill wrote the book on thrust vectoring. That's what stabilizes the rockets nowadays instead of those fins that we used to see in science fiction stories before the actual things came along. Hill had his sighting in broad daylight and thought to himself,"Hey we can't do the things these things are doing, and neither can the Russians." He reasoned right then that they had to be intelligently controlled vehicles and most likely extraterrestial. With what he had seen, and from reports from APRO he began to form his theories and some forty years later his wife published them. Mr. Hill died in 1991. I found the book facinating even though the math can be a bit daunting but stick with it. It should answer some very tough questions for you. There is a forward by Robert M. Wood, Ph.D. in Physics, Cornell University -1953. Mr. Wood was an Aeronautical Engineer from 1953-61 and Research Developement Manager from 1961-93 at McDonnell Douglas Corp. in Huntington Beach, California. There is also a critical comment under the title by Apollo 14 Astronaut, Edgar Mitchell-Sc.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Nellis Video? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 04:13:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 04:13:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:27:41 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 19:01:38 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nellis Video? >> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 >> From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Nellis video >Hi Ken, >> I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including >> a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. ====================== Bill Ralls writes, >It's an amazing piece of video. I saw this same S30 video on a >"Sightings" episode a year or so ago. It does not look like any >current aircraft that I'm aware of. It performed some pretty >amazing >manuevers like the right angle turns you described. The >shape of this >object also was quite strange. The object seems to >change shape from >frame to frame in some parts of the video, but >seemed to have the basic >shape of 3 or 4 globes tied together with >a darker appendage in the >center. >Seeing how it was shot at Nellis Test Range there is a good chance >that this thing is military. But it seemed to show flight >characteristics that are totally unconventional to me. If military, >where did the technology come from and what is it's purpose. It >could explain some of the UFO sightings of recent times. ========================== Hi Bill, Ken, All, I am attaching a copy of the Nellis 'UFO' and a copy of the Brazilian 'UFO.' (I copped a gif. of the Nellis UFO from Bills' website, http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/s30.html I hope you don't mind Bill!) Now, everyone has what they need to make a side by side comparison. All you 'armchair' ufologists have no excuse here, it's in your computer! Bill, I don't think that what was captured at Nellis AFB had anything to do with 'human' designed and engineered experimental air or space craft. Otherwise what was it doing over Sao Paulo Brazil in 1991? Re: craft movements. The video clip that I have of the Brazilian sighting shows the object appearing and disappearing as it darts about like a fly. the appearing and disappearing is due to the crafts lights being turned on and off. I don't think that it actually disappeared and then reappeared. The 'fly' analogy is I think a valid one. If you've ever studied the flight patterns of a common housefly you've seen how it makes smooth 90 degree turns, traces out box shaped patterns and the like. The UFO's at Nellis and Brazil mimic these same flight characteristics. My guess is that it would have something to do with the nature of the propusion system of these crafts and how [it] operates. Fascinating stuff, I hope that some of you guys are analysing these, and the rest of you enjoying them. "They're heeeere!" John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Nellis Video? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:09:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:09:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:41:19 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nellis Video? In a message dated 97-04-05 10:22:49 EST, you write: >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 >From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Nellis video >I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including >a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. The tape was supposedly >from a tracking camera they use there and included audio of ground crew >members saying they saw the object and didnt know what it was, and >sillhouetted interviews with the people who supposedly smuggled it out >saying how concerned they were... For some background on the possible origins of the video, try Glen Campbell's Desert Rat #22 at: http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr22/ This was first written when short segments of the video first appeared on "Hard Copy" in Feb. 1994. Despite what expert Chuck DeCaro says in the article, the video was not shot at night through an infrared scope. The time stamp places it around 23:20 hours, but military aerial radar is referenced to Greenwich time, not local time. Therefore, the video was really shot at either 3:20 p.m. or 4:20 p.m. local time. The Sightings AOL page says the video dates to November, 1994. The Desert Rat article suggests the video was shot at the Tolichna Peak Electronic Combat Range on the Nellis Range, northwest of the Nevada Test Site. Check out Tom Mahood's Web page http://www.serve.com/mahood/nellis/nellismn.htm which has maps and photos of the area plus on article on the TPECR. http://www.serve.com/mahood/nellis/tolicha/tpecr.htm If you have AOL service, the Images section on the Sightings page have two large JPGs/GIFs of the object. GIFs and movies can also be found at: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~drgnbane/ufospecific/area51/s30.html http://web2.airmail.net/yogi/s30.html (UFO World) The fourth MOV on the UFO World page is particularly interesting, clearly showing the multilobed structure of the craft and a pulsating surround. >The object seemed to be some sort of central cylindrical structure >surrounded by 3 globes that were attached. It looked more like four globes to me, but whose counting? Besides, there are times when it's impossible to see any clear structure at all, the whole thing becoming hazy and ill-defined. Similar multilobed objects have been captured on video over Mexico City and over Sao Paulo Brazil. Sightings recently came out with a paperback by Susan Michaels (called "Sightings"). Figure 51 shows two stills of an object captured by Dr. Antonio Rosas over Mexico City. The first one in particular looks identical to the Nellis UFO. Figure 52 shows another object over Mexico City. The multilobed nature isn't apparent from the still, but on the original video the object is obviously rotating and appears to have four lobes. The object over Sao Paulo can be seen in a series of GIFs by John Valesz at http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/websitelynx.html (Intruder's Web page). In some of these images, there are very clearly four lobes. But in others, there is an apparent light show, where the object uses lights to assume a ring-shaped or pinwheel appearance. > It flew at rapid right angles Probably not. What you are seeing is tracking camera jitters which seems to make the object jerk erratically around, particular when they zoom in. Initially, however, the object was moving slowly away from the camera. Then it DID make an approximately right angle turn while going about 140 mph, started to rapidly rise, and circled the radar/camera site for the next 100 seconds before the video ended. According to the range on the video, the object maintained an absolutely constant distance of 5.7 miles (9135 meters) during this entire period. One way to gauge the speed at which the object was travelling is to look at the elevation and azimuth readings. At this range, each one degree change in azimuth or elevation corresponds to a distance of 1/10 mile. So if the object, e.g., moved 10 degrees of azimuth in 10 seconds, it would be moving 6 miles per minute or 360 mph. >and looked like no aircraft I've ever seen (it certainly wasnt >aerodynamically sound). One of the unique things about the video is that it is overlayed with a complete set of radar data, enabling one to reconstruct the flight performance and trajectory, which I have done. The objects peak speed on the video is 560 mph when it is near the top of the circular arc it is flying around the radar. The various velocities, climb rates, and accelerations are hardly outside of conventional human technology, but there is no obvious external evidence of a conventional propulsion system such as jets, rockets, propellers, etc. As you note, the object does not appear to be streamlined; therefore how can it fly so fast? This may have to do with the pulsating surround of the craft mentioned above, which may be part of an atmospheric control system long hypothesized to be surrounding UFOs, that enables them to slice through the atmosphere noiselessly and with a minimum of friction and skin heating. > I ask because I read this List and am subscribed to most of the >pertinent newsgroups and havent heard a peep about it. I had a debate with the Evil Dean Adams some months back on Usenet, in which
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 17:29:22 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:38:55 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >Greg, IMO, what you describe as a skeptical view, is in actuality a >nonbeliever view. >I consider myself skeptical, yet I do not KNOW anything for sure -- whether >it be sociological, real, hoax, or whatever. In the FT office we make a handy distinction between 'sceptics' in the old Greek sense of 'being unsure about something' ... as represented here by Rebecca's position, and 'skeptics' in the more militant and modern sense expressed by Greg and CSICOP. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 9:55:17 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:35:09 -0400 Subject: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:31:37 -0400 >About Curtis Peebles: >> I think Peeble's book is largely ignored because of its very skeptical >> attitude toward UFOs, but most of the history and reporting is >> impeccable. As far as names and dates are concerned, it's probably >> one of the most valuable works in the field. >No way. See the review in IUR some time ago. The book is riddled with >factual mistakes. You're very much correct, and I regret using the word "impeccable." Chronologically, Peeble's text is on the money, but it is indeed rife with oversimplified reasoning and a few glaring ommisions. To his credit, he states his position early in the book. >In my experience, the skeptical view is based on circular reasoning. >Since they KNOW there aren't any real UFOs, obviously flaps must be > caused by the media. And then the belief that flaps are caused by >the media becomes yet another argument for the non-existence of >UFOS...which proves once more >that flaps are caused sociologically.... I think it's a very muddled operation, with both sides feeding into each other. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Chuck Shramek's pranking past? From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:02:12 -0400 Subject: Chuck Shramek's pranking past? This appears in issue 117 of UK science fiction writer Dave Langford's fanzine, "Ansible" (available on the web at http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible - imagine "Saucer Smear" for SF fans and you'd be surprisingly close to the truth). While I'd find it hard to sympathise with some of the views expressed here, it still makes interesting reading. CULT CONNECTIONS. _Gregory Frost_ writes: `The recent mass suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California, has induced me (at the urging of Michael Swanwick) to write you regarding my odd connection to an event that seems to have prompted that act -- namely the discovery of the "companion" purportedly following the comet Hale-Bopp on its flyby. _[See A116.]_ As is well-known by now, the cult was convinced (as are many UFO zipheads who weigh in on the internet) that the companion, discovered by amateur astronomer Charles Shramek, is an alien mothership, either preparing a mass invasion in the style of _Independence Day_, or a nice ship waiting to sweep up the souls of the 39 cult members. These conclusions were reached when some hapless fool in a position of authority claimed he could find nothing on the charts that corresponded to the object, which, if you see the photo in question, is clearly and unquestionably a star. The UFO believers immediately shouted "government cover-up!" at this denial -- even though the denial itself was supportive of their interpretation. It all turns out to be due to some _very_ incomplete star chart being referenced, but never mind that. The UFOzos had their mother ship and a denial of its reality by someone in power. It doesn't get better than that. The thing is, Charles Shramek and I went to high school together. We occasionally cooked up batches of helium, filled dry cleaner bags with it, attached pie tins containing flares to the bottoms, then sent the bags off into the night. Immediately thereafter, we would call the local airport and report having sighted UFOs. Now and then, especially when other people saw our little flare balloons and called in, too, we made the local papers. Chuck is an inveterate prankster. He was also a ham radio operator, and deviously technological. I was on hand on one occasion when he ran his voice through a filter that made him sound like Zontar the Warp Master while he communicated with some gullible ham radio operators elsewhere. Chuck had convinced a whole flock of them that he was a space alien from Venus. He told us one night that he had pulled a great prank on a neighbour who numbered among the believers by dressing all in black and wrapping his head in aluminum foil, then peering into the windows of the neighbor's house until the poor UFOzo spotted him, and tried to give chase. I believe Chuck had tied this into one of his ham radio communiques, proving to the neighbour that the aliens had visited him. So when I discovered that the UFO dogging comet Hale-Bopp had been photographed by one Charles Shramek, and that this "discovery" was making a splash in national news, I had a lot of trouble sitting upright for awhile. After all, here was the only person I knew who'd ever tried smoking banana peels (it gave him a headache) pulling off a truly grandstand stunt. That his jape convinced a bunch of -- let's say, sadly demented -- people in California that the awaited space aliens had finally come would be truly tragic if that were the sole motivation that had led them to this. In fact it was the appearance of the comet itself that was, as the cult put it on their web page, "the marker" they'd been awaiting, a signal that Earth is about to be "recycled"... and we all know what that means. Makes you want to scream out: "It's a cookbook!" I can't blame Shramek, unless we all agree to blame Whitley Strieber, Betty & Barney Hill, and every book-authoring half-wit psychotherapist who propounds that people _really_ are being abducted and anally probed by alien visitors -- all contributing to an atmosphere where unchecked lunacy reigns. I'm not too worried about being recycled, either. At present I'm working on a book about 19th century American religious sects, and I have to tell you, the world has ended a _lot_ of times before this.' [29 Mar] ----- Nothing in this post is necessarily the opinion of John Brown Publishing or Fortean Times. On a bad day, it might not even be mine. ----- "Jinks was an intelligent man. He read and understood the novels of Fanthorpe, Muller and Fane." Karl Ziegfried, "Projection Infinity"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Mr. Mantle's further humors From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 06:59:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:47:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Mr. Mantle's further humors > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:40:00 -0500 > From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> > Subject: Mr. Mantle's further humors > To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> > [The contents of this message are the responsibility of the > original sender and do not in anyway reflect or represent > the views or opinions of the owner of this E-Mail List] > In response to Mr. Mantle's humourous response concerning his use > of a psychologist in Miss Morrison's case, and further kind > comments he has made about me, I reproduce here the relevant > section of yet another letter, written to me by humourous Mr. > Mantle, one month after his previous letter. His letter is dated > March 28, 1989; > "Last but not least, I would appreciate it if you could supply me > with the address or phone number of the psychologist Mike Buck. > He may be able to help me with one or two matters". > In another part of the same letter Mr. Mantle writes; "I have > sent you two VHS video tapes in a separate protective envelope > and I would like to thank you again" [snip] > Truly Mr. Mantle is a humourous man for all seasons. I wish him > every luck and success in his future quests. > Armen Victorian Dear Henry, You get funnier by the minute. You must have had plenty of time as a guest of Her Majesty to dream up such fantasies. You can't even remember the name of the psychologist who I met with you at your house in Nottigham. Really Henry, if one is to continue to tell porkies one should improves ones memory. Must dash, just off to frolic in the fields with my ouiji-board, goats head, and sacrificial virginal abductee of course. ATB. PHILIP.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: ABC's 20/20 report From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Apr 97 15:45:29 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:19:07 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC's 20/20 report >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 12:06:13 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: ABC's 20/20 report Vince, >To be fair, the 20/20 piece was not a "UFO documentary." >It narrowly focused on how an "alien autopsy" video could be >faked -- and with much more convincing visual results than >Santilli's video offers. You have my sympathy. I had not realized until now that you were visually impaired. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Russian 'Fireball Weapon' From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 16:33:21 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:31:25 -0400 Subject: Russian 'Fireball Weapon' From Ross Dowe National UFO Hotline Verbatim Script VOICE OF RUSSIA WORLD SERVICE "SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING" (air 23.12.96) (excerpt) Our next question is from Ross Dowe in Victoria Australia. He's interested in science in general, but was particularly intrigued by a program last April, in which you, Boris, spoke of microwave generator development in Russia. He'd like you to return to the subject... First of all, could you explain why there is an interest in such generators?... BELITSKY: Powerful microwave generators are of interest, for one thing, because of their possible military applications. They can be used to fire a plasmoid, that is, a blob, of plasma... YEKIMENKO : Remind us, Boris, just what is, meant by plasma... BELITZKY: Plasma is a mixture of electrons and ions. We have all seen it, for example, in electric are discharges and in sparks, It is also it a prime factor in thermonuclear reactions, as in the Sun. Space scientists in this country have a long record of experimenting with it. For example, plasma engines were tested in some of the early Soviet Mars probes, a quarter of a century ago. Very extensive studies of plasma have been carried out under the program of research into controlled nuclear fusion. Research into the military applications has been conducted at some of the leading research institutes of the military-industrial complex, for example at the Research Institute of Radio Instruments. YEKIMENKO: How would a microwave generator be used "in anger" Boris? BELITZKY: It would be used to fire a plasmoid, that is, a blob of plasma into the path of an incoming missile, its warhead, or an aircraft. The plasmoid would effectively ionize that, region of space and, in, this way, disturb the aerodynamics of the flight of the missile, warhead, or aircraft, terminate their flight makes such a generator and its plasmoid a practically invulnerable weapon, providing protection against attack via space or the atmosphere sphere,.(c)1996/7 YEKIMENKO: Boris, I hate to ask this question, but still... The generals and scientists who speak of this weapon - they couldn't be bluffing, could they? BELITZKY: Oh no. This is evident if only from the fact that a few years ago in 1993, at the Russian-American summit in Vancouver, the Russians proposed a joint experiment in testing such generators - or plasma weapons, as they are called here - as an alternative to the Strategic Defence Initiative, SDI. In such an experiment, which it was proposed tocode-name :'Trust," the system would be used to repulse a missile attack. In this way Russia hoped to strengthen the new climate of post-cold-war security in the world. YEKIMENKO: Is it known who the leading scientist behind the development of plasma weapons in Russia? BELITZKY: Yes. It is 65- year-old Rimily Avramenko, a graduate of the Moscow Institute of Power Engineering. In 1955 he started work under Alexander Mints at the research Institute headed by that outstanding scientist. Then followed a period of work at the Sary-Shagan proving ground, not far from Lake Belkhash. It was there that he started work on anti-missile defence systems. He was a leading designer of the giant; "Don" radar complex, which some specialists in the West dubbed the "Eighth Wonder of the World." As for plasma weapons, he has been working in that field since 1967. YEKIMENKO: Was he the first scientist in this country to tackle the problem of anti-missile defence? BELITZKY: No. The first was probably the famous Peter Kapitsa. When Kapitsa was banished, in Stalin's time to his country home, he designed a weapons system based on microwave emission. That was in 1952, and he called the system the Higotron, a contraction based on the name of the village where his country home was situated, Nikolina Gora Other scientists interested in this possibility were Alexander Mints and Lev Artsimovich. These were actually Avramonko's mentors. All them didn't believe in the effectiveness of "anti-missile" They felt a countermissile would not be effective against an incoming missile, protected by a "stealth-type" coating and a host of decoys. And they began looking for alternative solutions to the problem. They soon concluded that the most vulnerable factor in a missile attack was the medium through which the incoming missiles travelled. And they decided that the best solution was to influence that medium. That was how the idea of using powerful microwave generators was born... Yekimenko: Finally, Boris are there any peaceful applications in sight for such generators? Belitzky: Yes. Some scientists here in Russia believe they could be used very effectively to patch up the ozone hole, in other words, repair the damage done by ozone depletion... Yekimenko: Well, Boris, :you must tell us about that another time. But today our time is up...Copyright (c)19/7 Jingle VOR Science and Engineering Russians linked to WA blast. The West Australian Friday. January 24 1997. New Russian V2 RealAudio Voice of Russia Australian Defence Home Page Australian Intelligence Community OGIT - Office of Government Information Technology Australia New Zealand Ministry of Defence IPP Home Page January 17, 1997 Six months later, still no answer to TWA Flight 800 mystery (c)1996/7 From Correspondent Christine Negroni NEW YORK (CNN) -- Six months into the most costly plane crash investigation ever, there are still more questions than answers about the deadly mid-air explosion of TWA Flight 800. "All three theories -- a bomb, a missile or mechanical failure -- remain," Jim Hall, chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said Thursday. The only constant in the investigation is that 230 people aboard the Paris-bound Boeing 747 are dead. Six months into their probe of the July 17 crash off New York's Long Island, a small fleet of scallop boats are continuing to search the area where the plane went down. "I suppose we have the chance of picking up the smoking gun," said Craig Mullen of Oceaneering International. Members of the Oceaneering International team now are looking for the tiniest of pieces below the sand, hoping to catch something that an army of divers, working for three months, could not find. The task is daunting. A 747 weighs 200 tons, is 213 feet wide and 231 feet long. Even though more than 95 percent of the TWA 747 retrieved from the Atlantic now rests at the hangar where the NTSB investigators work, investigators continue to have no solid explanation. As a result, these "tin kickers," as they are called, give their attention to a living room-sized metal box that is the plane's center fuel tank. "We know the center fuel tank exploded," said NTSB Vice Chairman Robert Francis. But that's all Francis can categorically say happened. The cause of that explosion remains unknown and investigators' weekly mantra to the media and victims' families remains: It could have been a bomb. It could have been a missile. It could have been mechanical malfunction. We just don't know. Sophisticated technology Off the record, criminal investigators were convinced a crime was committed. All they need is the proof. Six hundred FBI agents have worked the case, conducting close to 4,000 interviews from eyewitnesses to families of victims. Even the bodies of the passengers were probed for clues. "FBI agents were here and standing with us while we were doing the autopsies and taking the shrapnel that we found," said Dr. Charles Wetli of the Suffolk County Medical Examiner. "Virtually all of the bodies had shrapnel." When sophisticated equipment detected explosive residue on the plane's wreckage, it seemed a promising lead. That was until the discovery that the plane had been used in the months prior to the crash to train bomb-sniffing dogs. And to the frustration of the investigators, as the days went on, they could find no part of the plane that showed bomb-like damage. Eyewitnesses said they saw something that might have been a missile in the sky before the plane plummeted into the ocean. Former presidential aide and journalist Pierre Salinger even went so far as to join a chorus of folks on the Internet who claimed a U.S. Navy ship had accidentally shot down the plane and the government was covering it up. Yet the conspiracy theorists had no explanation for the fact that there was no missile damage on the wreckage or that no missile was ever found. Every angle explored With mounting physical evidence only telling them what it wasn't, air crash investigators were left to analyze the various ways a 747, after an uneventful takeoff on a clear summer night, could crash so horribly. The questions brought them back to the center fuel tank. Boeing acknowledges there are times during a normal flight when a nearly empty fuel tank can be full of vapors heating to volatility. Safety features are designed to keep any source of heat or electricity from igniting this explosive brew. Nevertheless, investigators began sorting through a list of things that might have gone wrong. A static spark generated from a fuel leak in the center tank is the theory now receiving the most scrutiny. Lab tests will soon be conducted to see if electrostatics could have caused the blast. An accidental crossing of high voltage wires with the low voltage wires in the fuel tank is also being considered as a possibility, as is faulty wiring in the plane's fuel pumps. Each new theory causes more concern about the safety of the 747 in general. "One of the things we learn from accidents is to change the aircraft to making them safer," said University of Southern California Professor Michael Barr. "We have a term for that. We call it blood priority. The blood priority is at work in every accident, not just TWA 800." Even with the ongoing investigation, the NTSB issued urgent recommendations that the Federal Aviation Administration take immediate steps to reduce the risk of fuel tank explosions. The FAA called on airlines to immediately re-inspect the wiring on fuel pumps for signs of erosion. The 747 is considered an aviation marvel. So few can imagine what kind of event could have destroyed TWA Flight 800 in an instant. And more importantly, why top investigators using the most sophisticated techniques can work for six months and move only inches closer to finding a cause. IPP Home Page
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Nellis Video? From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 11:09:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:36:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? This message is to all, but with particular regard to David Rudiak... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:41:19 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nellis Video? Hello David! Good to see you hereabouts. RE: images/movies of the Nellis video... >http://web2.airmail.net/yogi/s30.html (UFO World) Please note that the URL for UFO World has changed. It can now be found at: http://ufo-world.simplenet.com The site was getting too large for our previous location. (grin/wink) Y'all come visit, and comments are welcome. Bill has done a great job with the graphics! And it has been our aim to present only the most compelling pro/con content at the site. Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 'Expert' comment From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:31:47 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:41:15 -0400 Subject: 'Expert' comment Don wrote: >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment >I believe McGovern to be right, the cameraman would have set up at >least on sticks with a decent 16 mm camera, lighted the bejesus out of >the area and warned the good "doctors" to stay out of the shot, >otherwise what is the point of him being there. If the 20/20 thing was >inaccurate about something it was probably having McGovern standing >there with the little spring wound camera when the real cameraman >would have probably had access to much more sophisticated equipment. [The following is written from the hypothetical perspective that the footage is real.] If these are really top-notch medical people operating on an apparent alien creature, then it would seem to me that the doctors would be in more or less strict control of the situation--not the cameraman! The motions of the cameraman are consistent with those of someone not wanting to disrupt a delicate (and unprecedented) procedure. Take into account the anti-contamination suit that he was wearing (and hasn't this claim been confirmed by looking at reflections on surgical instruments, etc.?) and I think it begins to look more and more ludicrous that the camerman would be in control of the situation. Indeed, the only alien autopsy context I can think of in which the person taking film would be given priority would be either a hoax or a science fiction film. The fact that the footage looks decidedly un-movie-like is no accident. I recall some discussion on this list about a still photographer who would periodically snap clear, close-up shots of the autopsy in progress. In this case, the motion-picture cameraman's job would be to capture the chronology and gross detail of the event, while medical-quality photos would be taken by someone else for further perusal. It's simply difficult to learn much about the alleged "creature" on the AA footagel; the format seems designed more to "debrief" than to "explain" or appease the appetites of the scientists who would inevitably be full of questions after viewing it. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Alfred's Odd Ode #126 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:31:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 19:15:43 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #126 Apology to MW #126 (For April 8, 1997) I=92m reminded of something by the heaven=92s gate bunch, Those that shed their scorned containers in a business man=92s lunch. They eschewed their whacked off testicles, their disgust was so complete. They found their sex revolting, so, they made demise replete. I understand this Applewhite had problems with his gayness. He imagined that he was dirty =96 he felt futile, false, and heinous . I think he was twisted in his early education. I think dichotomy of warped ideals put his talent on vacation. >From where does disrespect for the physical truly come?=20 As the Christian counsels trustlessness for a world that we come from. =20 Our sex is complicated, a dark-side twisted thing? Best a chemical castration, or a rubber de-balling ring? The irony is, for male or female in orgasmic sweet release, Your system of immunity goes up without surcease. Your body is more able, its defenses more complete; Your health is more robust, and you=92re lighter on your feet! Your plumbing gets some exercise, along with one fine *treat*. Your meat invigorated, I shouldn=92t say it can=92t be beat <g>. The rush is cleansing and refreshing and far from staid and sundry . . .=20 And tell the truth, after every time, aren=92t ya=92 just a little hungry? The earth is foul, and comes from Satan, our passion is our curse? To show respect to Ghaia is the road to hell, or worse? Frogs, and trees, or water birds are malicious wanton liars? God will provide if we rape this planet, but sing sweetly in his choir? I don=92t really think so, and I think that you=92ve gone daft, If you think your god would move an inch to make up for your _crap_. _You_ think your rights of biblical dominion means ruler, and food waster. But dominion is actually stewardship -- earthbrother, friend, care taker! So why are we revolted by our connection to the mammals? They were here before us; theirs _are_ the longer annals! They have lived in innocent harmony, without a single sin, And we have just, ten thousand years =96 and we wallow right on in! I revel that I=92m mammal! It is joy that I am feeling. It is right that I appreciate an environmental healing. Whack off my own testicles because they are some trouble? Well show me why; prove what=92s gained; uh, your nose is blowing bubbles!= =20 I see insidious process alive in Christian attitude. I see that it=92s irrational -- this affected, faithful beatitude. There=92s disrespect profound for the traditions of our lineage -- It=92s found in wanton, selfish greed, and how we=92ve spoiled our acreage. We are told from stunted birth that the world=92s a deceiver. The Christian right works passionate to make you that believer.=20 They are draining all the wetlands that keep the land from flooding, And while you flood they dance and sing; they keep your trees from budding. Embrace the world as your sister, as she=92s the womb you come from. She feeds you milk from earthen breast, and you fuck without a condom. Consider your sad existence more depletes than law allows! As she perceives it =96 your _real_ value? You daily move your bowels! =20 Woe to the man or woman that puts their value too much high. "If it=92s my golf game over fishes =96 then some fish are gonna die!" "If it was bad as you keep sayin=92 they=92d be takin=92 serious steps!" So I ask you softly, would they? . . .you poor, na=EFve, dumb schlep? Where did it get the heavens gate bunch -- Those that gave out in an Earth hating crunch. It=92s not sex or the world that=92s the serious problem. It=92s disrespect for our Mother, worn _proud_ like an emblem! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Where does the disrespect come from? Oh, I know that western civilization has avoided spiritual humility since Aristotle demonstrated his petulant break from Plato. But, wait a minute! What can we possibly hope to gain by ignoring the non verbal communications of this planet! You know . . . we could uncover, or lose control of dangerous toys, and un-cage a vicious little bug that could take a quarter of the population virtually overnight . . .those are the wages of disrespect; those are the wages of treating your mother like property; those are the wages of failing to cop to obvious responsibility. They are _just_ wages. I pledged (paid) $20.00 to National Public Radio (NPR) last Sunday. Please send them what you can. 1-800-800-6616, it=92s a start. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for celebrating the thinking animal.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 8 Real origin of the use of "flap" From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:48:23 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 19:10:29 -0400 Subject: Real origin of the use of "flap" As my UK recipients will agree, the use of the word "flap" was generally used by the Royal Air Force to denote a scramble or emergency caused by enemy aircraft, as in "Croydon aerodrome was in a flap, with aircraft dog-fighting at all altitudes". I'm sure we have some historian out there that could possibly trace this back as far as WW 1..... Jakes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Test Message From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:55:32 -0800 Subject: Test Message Frank Saul wrote: > From: ecoent@gbd.com (Frank Saul) > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO Book Publication details > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:12:48 -0400 > Does anyone know of a book by the title: "Are UFO's Real" ? > (something like that) The author is a former NASA scientist > with a French name:" Maurice Chatelaine"??? > The book contains complex diagrams of the Egyptian > pyramid locations, as well as the "universal constance" > formula for math./geometry. I believe the book you are looking for is titled "Our Cosmic Ancestors" by Maurice Chatelaine (c. 1987), published by Temple Golden Publications, 1988. The chapters are: The Apollo Spacecraft; The Constant of Nineveh; The Mayan Calendar; The Secret of the Pyramid; The Maltese Cross; The Rhodes Calculator; The Kings of the Sea; Th Signs of th Zodiac; The Polar Mysteries; The Universal Calndar; The Four Moons; The Mystery of Atlantis; Extraterrestrial Visitors; and Conclusion. Parts of this book were published previously, and may have been in a book by the title you were seking. Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the Apollo space craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the Apollo lunar missions. John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:58:32 -0800 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? Frank Saul wrote: > From: ecoent@gbd.com (Frank Saul) > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO Book Publication details > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:12:48 -0400 > Does anyone know of a book by the title: "Are UFO's Real" ? > (something like that) The author is a former NASA scientist > with a French name:" Maurice Chatelaine"??? > The book contains complex diagrams of the Egyptian > pyramid locations, as well as the "universal constance" > formula for math./geometry. I believe the book you are looking for is titled "Our Cosmic Ancestors" by Maurice Chatelaine (c. 1987), published by Temple Golden Publications, 1988. The chapters are: The Apollo Spacecraft; The Constant of Nineveh; The Mayan Calendar; The Secret of the Pyramid; The Maltese Cross; The Rhodes Calculator; The Kings of the Sea; Th Signs of th Zodiac; The Polar Mysteries; The Universal Calndar; The Four Moons; The Mystery of Atlantis; Extraterrestrial Visitors; and Conclusion. Parts of this book were published previously, and may have been in a book by the title you were seking. Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the Apollo space craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the Apollo lunar missions. John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 'UFOs Rock 'n' Roll'? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:56:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:06:06 -0800 Subject: 'UFOs Rock 'n' Roll'? Dear colleagues, If you are interested in UFO's & ROCK 'n' ROLL then you might like to check out the web site of Glasgow rock band CEIV. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/brianceiv If you like what you see you can always contact band member Brian McMullan at: BrianCEIV@compuserve.com Having appeared twice with CEIV I can assure you that they liven up UFO conferences in their own unique way. ATB. Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 STS-80 Video From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 05:38:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:20 -0800 Subject: STS-80 Video [My apologies to Pat for not posting this one sooner. I'd stashed it away meaning to send it to the List only and the previous message from 'Brother Rat' John Velez, reminded me of it - sorry Pat :^{ - ebk] All, The NASA UFOS STS-80 Video in quicktime all platforms format is available at: http://www.bulletin-ol.com/NASAUFO This is almost 12 meg so only look if you are serious and want to see the video, and be prepared spend an hour or more on this. Save it! On Mac machines (PPC) just drag it to the desktop after it's fully downloaded. Many thanks to TGN (Texas Gulf Net) And Michael Butler (butlermd@tgn.net) for allowing this huge file server space just for you UFO research guys. This is just for UFO Updates folks so please don't publicize the URL. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:48:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > From: ecoent@gbd.com (Frank Saul) > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO Book Publication details > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:12:48 -0400 > To the list: > Does anyone know of a book by the title: "Are UFO's Real" ? > (something like that) The author is a former NASA scientist > with a French name:" Maurice Chatelaine"??? > The book contains complex diagrams of the Egyptian > pyramid locations, as well as the "universal constance" > formula for math./geometry. > Thanks, > Frank Saul Maurice Chatelain (that is the correct spelling) authored "Our Ancestors Came From Outer Space" published by Doubleday & Company, 1978, $7.95 ISBN: 0-385-12535-6 A Frenchman by birth, Chatelain immigrated to the United States in 1955. He states in his book (pp 2) that he "worked for number of aerospace organizations and industries and was supported by the United States Navy, the United States Air Force, and NASA. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: atlantis@globalserve.net (<Eilios>) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:06:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >From: ecoent@gbd.com (Frank Saul) >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO Book Publication details >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:12:48 -0400 > > >To the list: > >Does anyone know of a book by the title: "Are UFO's Real" ? >(something like that) The author is a former NASA scientist >with a French name:" Maurice Chatelaine"??? > >The book contains complex diagrams of the Egyptian >pyramid locations, as well as the "universal constance" >formula for math./geometry. > >Thanks, >Frank Saul Frank, I think the book you are referring to is titled " Our Cosmic Ancestors". I received a copy for joining the Ancient Astronaut Society. One of the most interesting facts in the book is the discovery that the faces of the Great Pyramid are not flat, but concave. The apothem recedes by one cubit. I found this astonishing that the ancients felt it was necessary to add curvature to the faces of the pyramid. He also discusses the constant of Nineveh (universal constant) and much much more. Its a fun read.. I would like to suggest that a new thread begin discussing ancient astronauts. It would be a nice break from the same old sights stuff. Whats intriguing about our past is there was no conspiracy at that time. Our ancients wrote what they saw. Its up to us to to challenge current interpretations and present a truer picture of our past. Nick [Kirkos] Ancient Astronaut Society 1921 St. Johns Ave., Highland Park, Illinois, 60035-3178 USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Apr 97 19:50:03 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:40 -0800 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment The Duke Mendoza presents his compliments >Date: 05 Apr 97 17:00:16 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >Subject: Expert comment >I thought all of you on my mailing list would be interested in >the comments of a VERY experienced cinematographer and journalist >who watched the ABC 20/20 program last night. I can put any >legitimate researcher in touch with him if they need to verify >this. What is the meaning of the word "legitimate" in this sentence? >This statement is ludicrous, as it's quite clear that no single >camera position in that small room could have been occupied very >long, without someone blocking the shot. What's ludicrous is that such an autopsy would ever have taken place in such a small room at all, with no space for fixed cameras on all four sides and above, a stills man and very likely a surgical artist as well. Not to mention Cameraman Jack's brilliant assertion that the "pathologists" used Level 4 suits that "breathed through the feet". This is insane as well as laughable, but do the SCAM's supporters ever address the issue? Apparently not. Not to mention either the approximately 1-day journey C'man Jack must have needed to slip over the Plains of San Agustin by way of Wright Field, and Roswell, if he went the way he said he did, and yet found an alien or two still squeaking and everyone still standing away from the superheated wreckage... Give the brain a break, Bob. Just which bits of this farrago of rubbish are we supposed to believe, and which not? And why should we believe any of it when the crap factor is so high in the parts rejected from the "approved" version, whatever that is? Incidentally, I don't *think* authenticating a strip of film (with appropriate attendant images) would prove a damn' thing. What's to stop anyone shooting a film tomorrow on well-preserved 1947 stock? (I bow to informed opinion here.) best Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza "Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the Universe." Albert Einstein (alien engineer & disinformer; also played violin)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Apr 97 17:43:07 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:47 -0800 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: 07 Apr 97 14:46:03 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Byond Belief' >The IRT which we set up consists of Michael Hesemann, >Philip Mantle, Maurizio Baiata, myself, and a few others. >It is an informal group, and we have no membership card, >certificate, secret handshake, or decoder rings. Just a >common interest in giving the AA film a fair hearing. Since Bob, who is much more eloquent than I am (at least in English, since I'm German) already addressed Easton's unnumberable mistakes in his delayed comment on my NEXUS article (published last Octobre) I only want to a few points: 1. The IRT consists of about 20 people including well-known UFO researchers, not just Phil Bob and myself. A main part of the field investigation in Socorro was done by Ted Loman and 4 fellow members of UFO AZ, and, before, by Llewellyan Wykel and his fiancee. Noone, by the way, was paid or hired by Ray Santilli, as James Easton uses to claim, and most members paid all expenses out of their own pockets (about $ 10.000 in my case). 2. The claim that I claimed that the cameraman spoke about re-reopening of the mine as a cover story is a misunderstanding. "As the cameraman said", clearly referred to the DATE -according to the cameraman the retrieval operation begun on June 1st 1947, the very day of the reopening of the Niggerhead mine. 3. Bob and myself agreed to diagree on the crash site location, although I have good reasons to feel right: a. The cameraman confirmed, after receiving photos, that it is the right site b. A drawing based on the cameramans sketch of the crash scene clearly shows the landscape features you see when you enter the site through the Bear Canyon. c. On the very site the cameraman drew the spaceship we found a 60 feet wide and 9 feet high area of chiseled out rock - did someone try to remove traces? 4.Isn't it ironic that James Easton, who never did any field research in this case, questions Bob Shells telephonic confirmation of an information given to him by a fellow researcher? Michael Hesemann, Dusseldorf/GER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Nellis Video? From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:56:26 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:34 -0800 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:27:41 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? <snip> >Bill, I don't think that what was captured at Nellis AFB had anything to do >with 'human' designed and engineered experimental >air or space craft. Otherwise what was it doing over Sao Paulo Brazil in 1991? John, who filmed the object that was over Sao Paulo Brazil in 1991? Was is filmed like the Nellis footage - over or near a military installation or was it an "average citizen" that filmed it or was it over a city, etc.? >Re: craft movements. >The video clip that I have of the Brazilian sighting shows the object >appearing and disappearing as it darts about like a fly. >the appearing and disappearing is due to the crafts lights being turned on >and off. I don't think that it actually disappeared and then reappeared. In 1994, at an Ozark UFO conference in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, Mr. Wingfield, Bob Reid and others gathered at the "Lone Star Bar" and reviewed a tape just made by Ed Walters of a UFO over a beach in Gulf Breeze. The object appeared to travel slowly, hover then suddenly ...disappear. We ran the tape over and over in slow motion and discovered that the object did not just "disappear" it actually took off so fast that the eye could not track it. It hovered then just shot off at a 25 degree angle from it's apparant trajectory toward the heavens. This also reminded me of the way a fly maneuvers because it shot up at an angle from the path it was previously traversing. Like a fly, it was there then suddenly gone. These things may be flying at incredible speeds faster than the eye can see and they can be turning their lights off and on as well. Makes one wonder if they somehow KNOW they are being photographed and are "demonstrating" their technology. <snip> >Fascinating stuff, I hope that some of you guys are analysing these, and >the rest of you enjoying them. Us "Gals" are analysing them too! It IS fascinating! Thanks, John! A. Hebert ****************************************************************** + UFO-ER + Emergency room for expanding realities. Information -> E-mail <yelorose@swbell.net> *******************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Nellis Video? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:59:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:05:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? [NOTE: This message has _not_ been posted to the UpDates Instant Archive. John's animated .GIF files are fairly large: Brazil 1 - 2.3MB Brazil 2 - 3.7MB Brazil 3 - 1.9MB The files will transfer into your browser first. You can then 'save as' wherever on your system your heart desires. While your browser transfers the animated GIFs try and avoid the temptation of using your browser to go somewhere else - doing so will interupt the transfer! (Open another version if your system supports it). - ebk] >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:41:19 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nellis Video? >In a message dated 97-04-05 10:22:49 EST, you write: >>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:57:30 -0500 >>From: Ken Bundy <kfb@harborcom.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Nellis video >>I saw a piece on a show called Realtv last week about and including >>a video tape that was smuggled out of Nellis. Dave Rudiak writes, >The Desert Rat article suggests the video was >shot at the Tolichna Peak Electronic Combat >Range on the Nellis Range, northwest of the >Nevada Test Site. The presence of the UFO in an area that is generally used for combat training excersizes is significant. I have dismissed the possibility of it being one of our own experimental craft on the grounds that it has appeared over foreign soil and densely populated urban centers. It just doesn't make any sense for them to fly supposedly 'secret technology' over someone elses back yard. >Figure 51 shows two stills of an object captured by >Dr. Antonio Rosas over Mexico City. The first one >in particular looks identical to the Nellis UFO. Thanks for the addition of the Mexico shots Dave, I was unaware of them. And yes, the Dr's pic appears to be that same mutli-lobed UFO! >The object over Sao Paulo can be seen in a series >of GIFs by John Velez at >http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/websitelynx.html The sequential 'stills' of the Brazil UFO are up on the website. I am going to create a seperate webpage for members of this list who are interested or following this thread. I will post as much of the Brazil UFO video as webspace will allow. It will only be up for 48 hours. By friday morning it will be down, so schedule some download time and get ye over to; http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/brzup1.html Until Friday morning, and then I have to take it down. >(Intruder's Web page). In some of these images, there are >very clearly four lobes. But in others, there is an apparent >light show, where the object uses lights to assume a >ring-shaped or pinwheel appearance. You'll have an opportunity to see for yourself. >> It flew at rapid right angles >Probably not. What you are seeing is tracking camera jitters >which seems to make the object jerk erratically around, particular >when they zoom in. Not in the Brazilian tape Dave. The thing darts around just like a common house fly! I've done extensive single frame analysis of this tape and in certain frames the object can be seen streaking into the frame, flashing the party lights, and then darting away again. >In the meantime, I've enclosed a composite Jpeg image of the >Nellis UFO to compare it with the Mexico City and Sao Paul objects. >David Rudiak Thank you Dave, for an excellent and informative post! That's three now kid! Brazil, Nellis, and Mexico, if anyone can add to the sighting database on this particular UFO, I, (and I'm sure many on the list,) would be most grateful. Take care till next Mr Rudiak. Comments on the Brazil piece would be most welcome as well. John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:20:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:06:14 -0800 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' Regarding... >Date: 07 Apr 97 14:46:03 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Belief' Bob wrote: >I have just spent the past three days correcting page proofs of >_Beyond Roswell_. Much of it has been revised based on feedback on >the Nexus article. We're no longer claiming to have "verified every important detail of the cameraman's story"? That's what Hesemann reminded you of only last month. >Don't you think it would be more useful to wait until the book has >been published, and to make your comments based on the final printed >text?? I may be adept at forecasting rain for Wimbledon, but I do not profess to be psychic. I didn't realise the claims were so volatile. >The IRT which we set up consists of Michael Hesemann, Philip Mantle, >Maurizio Baiata, myself, and a few others. It is an informal group, >and we have no membership card, certificate, secret handshake, or >decoder rings. Ha! So you say. >Just a common interest in giving the AA film a fair hearing. It's had a fair hearing, some would say more than generous. And so it should have, but perhaps all the factual inaccuracies, distortions and plain old bull offered in it's defence are outside the Marquis of Queensberry rules. >>Shell had apparently simply telephoned the Rockefeller Archives... >So, James, are you saying that you have done no research by >telephone. No and thrice no, it's the paucity of the research - it should be pointed out that you were the first to say it was only preliminary research - and how those brief facts are used by others to suit their own agenda. But you're part of the same "team" and if you're not part of the solution.... >It was confirmed by these researchers that the archive has very >complete holdings of Dr. Bronk's papers for other years, but that for >1947 all they have is a couple of personal letters in which he >discusses his vacation for the following year. No this is not >conclusive proof of anything, but coupled with much other >circumstantial evidence is very suggestive. Can we truly say it's suggestive of anything other than his personal papers for that year are perhaps scarce? Does this merit dark suspicions that Dr Bronk was involved in an "alien autopsy" as Ray Santilli implies? I wonder what his family would think if they saw this accusation. >>To my knowledge, Ray Santilli has never said that the "cameraman" >>made this claim. >>How would the "cameraman" have known anyway? >I agree that Michael misspoke here. Here, there and everywhere. >I don't think the cameraman ever mentioned the mine. No, I didn't think that Ray Santilli ever mentioned this. >However, the reopening of the mine at just this time when it had been >shut down for years is another piece of circumstantial evidence. That depends on a number of factors. Firstly, you have to establish a credible basis for believing that something of significance happened there at that particular time. I would suggest there are few who believe that evidence exists, or is trustworthy. You would then at least need some hard evidence that with no prior intimations, the mine was suddenly reopened and at great haste around the same time. From the documents I've seen, the mine was privately owned and leased to the National Zinc Corporation. What is the evidence that the US government "invited" them to open the mine, and so on. >The cameraman very specifically says it was on the side of a dry lake >bed, and careful reading of the geological appraisal of the area in >the government report on the Niggerhead deposits finds no mention of >any dry lake beds in this area. What can I say. >Linda Moulton Howe has verified that Stone did discuss this prior to >the AA film becoming public. Not only that, but he drew for her a >graphic sketch in which a six-fingered hand and arm are clearly >shown. In the interview Stone gave to Ted Loman on Feb. 20, 1996, he claimed to have seen several films at Fort Belvior in 1969. There were saucer-shaped UFOs, cigar-shaped UFOs, films of bodies lying around, some live aliens, etc. - the usual stuff. He didn't mention any six-fingered aliens, but did comment, "There were several types of bodies. There were some who were reminiscent of these little grey guys, don't ask me about digits as far as fingers or toes....". I've also seen a similar interview with Stone on the "alien autopsy" based, "Roswell: The Investigation Continues" video, which it seems was never released. I couldn't begin to tell how believable Mr Stone isn't. >>With the "intelligence grapevine" being somewhat inadmissible >>evidence, it seems all we can conclude is that Shell called Captain >>McAndrew and a conversation took place. >If you are going to tell a story, tell all of it. For brevity, I didn't mention the entire story as it wasn't relevant to the fact that Hesemann had "misspoke" about the USAF contacting you, following an enquiry from Pres. Clinton's scientific advisor. There's no reason to doubt that you spoke to McAndrew. >I did the internet bit some time ago, and spent time on the phone >with people at the DataHand company. Mr. Retter was not available >when I called and did not return my calls. I'm sure he's a busy man. If you had located the same information, which as I mentioned to you includes the report of a conversation with Mr Retter and references a paper he co-authored, it seems strange that a "professional" couldn't find any evidence that he "really exists". Aside from establishing that there is evidence for Mr Retter's existence, which has been done, it is my personal opinion that any conspiratorial suggestions involving said Mr Retter are of zero value and probably libellous. We can but await the revised version of the evidence supporting the authenticity of Ray's video and story. Your comments are much appreciated. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM>[Peter Brookesmith] Date: 09 Apr 97 08:45:10 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:04 -0800 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peeble > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 17:29:22 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > In the FT office we make a handy distinction between 'sceptics' > in the old Greek sense of 'being unsure about something' ... as > represented here by Rebecca's position, and 'skeptics' in the > more militant and modern sense expressed by Greg and CSICOP. It may be a handy distinction, but it happens to have nothing to do with the "old Greek sense" of the word. Liddell and Scott give two meanings for "skeptomai" (the reflexive verb from which "skeptic" derives) in archaic Greek: I: to look about, look carefully at, look after, watch. II: (of the mind) to look into, view, examine, consider. There is NO connotation of uncertainty. In modern Greek you would use "skeptomai" to say "I think..." when you mean it is your considered opinion or when describing the act of thinking; the archaic connotations of being thoughtful and circumspect remain. If you wanted to say "I think it's three o'clock" but you don't have a watch and are not really sure, you'd probably use "fantazomai", or possibly "pistevo". Back to the original point: in "FSR's World Roundup of UFO Sightings and Events" (1958) "flap" crops up on page 221: "December 1957 - Sputniks bring biggest saucer flap in history". A quick skim didn't turn up an earlier use in that book, and someone else may have used it earlier; but it does have a British ring. best wishes O Periplanios, O Doukas tou Mendozou
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Skeptics to hold free lecture on Roswell incident From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:11 -0800 Subject: Skeptics to hold free lecture on Roswell incident Col. Richard L. Weaver, USAF, who co-authored the U.S. Air Force's 1994 Report on Roswell, will be speaking at a free lecture on the subject in the Washington, DC area on April 19th. Sponsored by National Capitol Skeptics, Weaver will speak at the Bethesda Library at 2:00pm to review the Air Force conclusions following their 1994 investigation, and to answer any questions that may still exist regarding the incident. The library is located at 7400 Arlington Rd; Bethesda, MD and the phone number for the library is 301-587-3827.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Another Solar Flare Bath From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 08:53:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:17 -0800 Subject: Another Solar Flare Bath I thought the attached may be of some interest to all.....Dave Vetterick R. Daniel Woolman wrote: (Dated 4/8/97): Hello everyone, Solar flare will hit earth on Wednesday, April 9, 1997 Is this similar to the flare that took out Telstar 4? Has the sun been recently hit by a projectile? After hearing the announcement on CNN of the solar flare about to splash earth, I downloaded a gif construction of solar images from the last 48 hours from LASCO ( http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/rtmovies.html ). To my shock I observed an anomalous object move slowly in from the lower left hand corner on direct linear course into the face of the sun, followed by what appears to be a sudden burst on impact. Anyway, I have the gif image and the anomaly clearly marked on a new page at: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/events/sol.html THIS, is worth seeing before we get hit tomorrow. I wonder if this is why the Shuttle Mission was cancelled. I don't think I would want to be up there right now! Respectfully, Dr. R. Daniel Woolman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: 'Expert' comment From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:03:44 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:23 -0800 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment >If these are really top-notch medical people operating on an apparent >alien creature, then it would seem to me that the doctors would be >in more or less strict control of the situation--not the cameraman! Having spent 3 years as a Medical Photographer, 2 of them in the Air Force, at Wilford Hall Hospital, and having spent MANY hours taking both stills and movies in surgical situations (including organ transplants), I can say without a doubt that a photographer, sent officially to DOCUMENT anything, has a LOT of say as to how the setting is worked. And in the alien autopsy, there is NO indication of any true examination of the alien. An autopsy of a human that died from natural causes would be more through. >The motions of the cameraman are consistent with those of someone >not wanting to disrupt a delicate (and unprecedented) procedure. They're more consistant with someone following a script. >I recall some discussion on this list about a still photographer who >would periodically snap clear, close-up shots of the autopsy in >progress. >In this case, the motion-picture cameraman's job would be to capture >the chronology and gross detail of the event, while medical-quality >photos would be taken by someone else for further perusal. Even in a non-critial case, FAR more care would be taken than was shown in the AA case. It's just NOT realistic. And you will NOT see round-bottomed stainless steel bowls in a medical setting, they're far too easy to tip over. Medical trays and bowls are flat-bottomed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 18:00:51 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:30 -0800 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' A quick flick through Keel's 'Trojan Horse' reveals that he was using the term 'flap' around 1970 or a bit earlier. Vallee, say, in his 'Anatomy of a Phenomenon' (1965) was using the term "waves" of sightings or reports. Popular use of 'flaps' referring to 'waves' of sightings must have arisen sometime in between. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: STS-80 Video From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 10:07:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:15:40 -0800 Subject: Re: STS-80 Video >Subject: STS-80 Video >Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 05:38:52 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> The STS-80 video was taped by my friend John Maxfield in Sacramento on Dec 1, 1996 on NASA Select Channel 22. He telephoned me the next day and immediately sent me a full copy. I showed this and talked about it on UFO AZ TV as well as Strange Universe which will be airing the segment next month. A copy was also sent to Dr. Jack Kasher. If the readers would like a copy of our discussion and the footage from our UFO AZ TV program, it is now available on video and you can visit their website and order it (by phone or e-mail) at: http://www.realacom.com/ufoaz/ted.htm Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Asst. State Director MUFON AZ Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Shramek's Pranking Past From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 13:55:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:48:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Shramek's Pranking Past >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:51 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates <updates@enigma.globalserve.net> >From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk >Subject: Chuck Shramek's pranking past? >This appears in issue 117 of UK science fiction writer Dave >Langford's fanzine, "Ansible" (available on the web at >http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible >- imagine "Saucer Smear" for SF fans and you'd be surprisingly >close to the truth). While I'd find it hard to sympathise with >some of the views expressed here, it still makes interesting >reading. >CULT CONNECTIONS. _Gregory Frost_ writes: `The recent mass >suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California, has induced me (at the >urging of Michael Swanwick) to write you regarding my odd >connection to an event that seems to have prompted that act -- >namely the discovery of the "companion" purportedly following the >comet Hale-Bopp on its flyby. _[See A116.]_ As is well-known by >now, the cult was convinced (as are many UFO zipheads who weigh >in on the internet) that the companion, discovered by amateur >astronomer Charles Shramek, is an alien mothership, either >preparing a mass invasion in the style of _Independence Day_, or >a nice ship waiting to sweep up the souls of the 39 cult members. [snip] You know Greg, your comments on Shramek are truly hilarious and astute. It's hard to believe how gullible some of the schmucks in this world can be, especially the adherents of the Church of ETs. Shramek's stunts certainly do serve to point this out. There truly is a sucker born every minute. I, myself, used to stick my guitar amp in the window of my house in Aiken, South Carolina and crank up my Mini-Moog synthesizer, blasting "outer space" like noises throughout the neighborhood, prompting worried neighbors to come outside with flashlights blazing, searching for the source of the "alien" noises. And yes, before long, the legend of the "secret saucer invasion" was born. That doesn't negate for a moment, however, the acute reality of my close encounter with a fully luminous object the size of a mobile home on a dark, deserted road just west of the Y-12 nuclear installation in my home town of Oak Ridge, TN. A city which has a long history of UFO surveillance dating back to the 1950s, much like Aiken and its Savannah River Nuclear Plant. You see Greg, these sightings do actually occur, your rapier wit notwithstanding. Reams of documentation recently declassified, confirm that no less a personage than J. Edgar Hoover was quite concerned with the presence of these objects in the restricted airspace over Oak Ridge. Indeed, according to these documents, fighter jets were scrambled on a number of occasions from McGee Tyson airport in Knoxville, to intercept these anomalous aircraft as they hovered over the K-25 Uranium Enrichment facility in the "Atomic City." Another document attests to Hoover's concern over a "visitation" by a saucer-shaped craft of unknown origin to the Ag-Farm, the reserve where Nuclear Medicines, etc., were tested on animals. In a letter from Hoover to the head of AEC (the Atomic Energy Commission) Security, he tells of the object, which was first spotted as it hovered a few feet above the ground, as having to lift itself up and over some barbed-wire fencing. A sighting, by the way, that occurred during the day. Obviously, Hoover had other concerns besides whether or not he had a run in his stockings. I'm a die-hard cynic, too, Greg. I'm sure I'd be dismissing the whole notion of UFOs were it not for my own CE; a frightening confrontation between an object hovering twenty above the road and two teenage boys who were neither "believers," or adherents of some goofy, new-age, avatar. We were, very simply, witnesses to a phenomenon that continues to defy easy explanations, despite your laudable efforts to the contrary. Jerry Washington
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Nellis Video? From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 13:06:47 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:11:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:59:04 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? John Velez wrote: >Thank you Dave, for an excellent and informative post! That's >three now kid! Brazil, Nellis, and Mexico, if anyone can add >to the sighting database on this particular UFO, I, (and I'm >sure many on the list,) would be most grateful. Take care >till next Mr Rudiak. >Comments on the Brazil piece would be most welcome as well. Wasn't there also a similar object photographed by Ed Walters in Gulf Breeze? Interesting... Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 09 Apr 97 00:03:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:39:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale Date:08 Apr 97 15:55:00 CET From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale Very, very soon after we have posted our brief summary of an article about Mr. Billy Meier which originally was published by Luc Buergin (Switzerland) in the latest issue of the German UFO-KURIER (No. 30), we read here mail by Mr. Michael Hesemann from Duesseldorf, Germany, stating: >that Billy Meier's Greek wife Kalliope got divorced and >tried to "throw mud" against her former husband as many >frustrated wives did after their divorce before. We find this a remarkable insight in the psychology of women during the process of getting divorced. In case someone would like to ask Mrs. Meier herself about her reasons for breaking her silence, Luc Buergin has published her address which we forward here: Kalliope Meier poste restante CH-8488 Turbenthal Switzerland Normally, responses to messages from Mr. Hesemann from Duesseldorf, Germany, don't leave here because most of us here in Germany related to UFO-research have been fed up for a long time with his extensive, fruitless, self-opinionated and often embarrassing way of arguing against those who have a different view of things. But this one time we would like to add a few sentences as an example of what we here in Germany have experienced from the 'One and Only' for many years. He couldn't refrain from denigrating us (which is just one symptom) even in his introduction to his written piece although we had neither mentioned nor meant Mr. Hesemann anywhere in our post. The most experienced UFO and Crop Circle Researcher of Germany wrote: >Unfortunately "the two" from Berlin, J.Koch and J.Kyborg, who claim >(in their book "Die Antwort des Orion"/"Orion answers", Munchen 1998) >they communicated with extraterrestrials from Orion by faking crop >circles in England for three summers, tried to get publicity by >another unbiased attack against serious UFO research. Our book entitled "Die Antwort des Orion" (transl.: "The Answer Of Orion") was published in 1996. We do not "claim" (if you can read German you can easily verify this) that we have "communicated with extraterrestrials from Orion". Instead we reported how we got in touch with the Crop Circle Phenomenon in Sothern England in 1990, how we tried - and succeeded - to research the available data, how we developed from these data an astronomical theory about the possible meaning about these strange "cerealoglyphs", how we left our armchairs (different from many others who still claim to be "in the know") and went out into the fields in England, 1400 km away from Germany, to do the next logocal step: the "in vivo" experiment. According to the underlaying numerously repeated graphic principles of these cerealoglyphs - where we have found twelve of - we created in 1991 a pictogram in a remote field near Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, South England, as an astronomical question to the obviously existing Intelligence behind this Phenomenon. The word "fake", used by the one mentioned above, is a very negative word, we think it is the same meaning both in English and in German. Normally this requires consequences - but we have learnt our lessons... From the beginning of our research up until now we did everything we did with full permission of the Farmer, at plain daylight, under full surveillance of the British Army in their helicopters above us, with full awareness of the so-called crop circle scene. We did this not "for three summers" but for six summers - this year will be summer number seven (counting advice for summers: one hand with five digits and another hand with two digits - or if you have a being with six digits :-) a full hand to the left and digit number three to the right). The pictogram we created in 1991, July 13th, in fact was answered with the pictograms of July 16th, Preshute Downs and Barbury Castle. With the help of the astronomical theory we were able to locate the star HD 42807 in the constellation of Orion. Simultaneously, we made an amazing discovery: the same star was encoded in the astronomical ceiling of the tomb of Senenmut (TT 353) at Deir el Bahri, Egypt, outside the northeast corner of the temple of a remarkable woman: Pharao Hatshepsut (MaatKaRe). Additionally, we found from the work of Prof. Alexander Thom (England) that the astronomical alignments of the well known and investigated ancient sites such as Stonehenge, Avebury and others, include all the main six stars of the so-called "Winter Circle" which is a huge alignment of six constellations of stars you easily can detect in the night sky in the Winter time. And in the center of this "Winter Circle" or (in Germany) "Winter Hexagon" there is the star where the Intelligence behind the Crop Circle Phenomenon pointed our attentention to. We reported that with help of our experiments in a remote field near Alton Barnes we communicated with this Intelligence. We never claimed to have communicated with "extraterrestrials from Orion". We have been members of the legendary "Beckhampton Group" and we published articles in the CERALOGIST and CCCS CCIRCULAR about our research at times when the "most famous crop circle researcher of Germany" was unknown around Avebury. We do not need "publicity" and we leave it to others to follow this idolatry. With our article "Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale" we intended to direct public interest to Luc Burgins research in one of the very unpleasant areas of human aberrations related to the UFO phenomenon. Our article was no "attack against serious UFO research". :-)) Well...enough. We send Love and Light to Mr. Michael Hesemann from Duesseldorf, the Best of Germanys serious, scientific and experienced UFO and Crop Circle ( and whatever else) Researchers, the one who is the friend of everyone, the one who is guiding people around in the area of obviously (and known) hoaxed crop circles in England since some years for more than 2,000.00 DM each person and who said in German TV (we have it on tape) that he thinks to be an incarnated extraterrestrial who is here to bring information to people. May he find his way through this incarnation and someday reaches the next evolutionary dimension where it will be easier cope with a universal truth: to be only a *tiny part* of a larger reality. Blessings Joachim Koch & Hans-Juergen Kyborg FIDO: 2:2410/704.20 IN: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage of the International Roswell Initiative, Germany: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/Jkoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Cabreara rocks From: "Mike G." <dorenob@erols.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1997 15:41:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:52:10 -0400 Subject: Cabreara rocks I just recently read 'Reality Game' by Brad Steiger and the story, about the ancient stones art depicting modern technology, got me excited. I can't seem to find any sites with any further info of this study on the web. They were found by Dr. Javier Cabrera and dubbed the "Cabrera Rocks". Any info out ther on this subject? [Mike Glass]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Nellis Video? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:25:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:45:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:59:04 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? >[NOTE: This message has _not_ been posted to the > UpDates Instant Archive. > John's animated .GIF files are fairly large: > > Brazil 1 - 2.3MB > Brazil 2 - 3.7MB > Brazil 3 - 1.9MB > The files will transfer into your browser first. > You can then 'save as' wherever on your system > your heart desires. > While your browser transfers the animated GIFs > try and avoid the temptation of using your > browser to go somewhere else - doing so will > interupt the transfer! (Open another version > if your system supports it). - ebk] ================================================== Hi Errol, hi All, First, thank you Errol for helping me to get this important video document into the hands of (many) who have not seen it. Whenever you get to feeling like you don't want to do the list anymore, remember how much it has contributed to 'getting at the truth' and the distribution of information! For Listmembers: The video clip(s) that I have posted on the web for you, was originally taped from TV (Brazil evening newscast) then I converted it to digital, and finally processed it into a more "downloadable" gif.format. The original files ate up 280 MB's! It wasn't 'primo' to begin with, so please excuse the grainyness of the images. Also, in order to get the MB's down on the original I had to record at only 15 frames per second, (contributes to jerkyness and grainy appearance of the version you find on the web.) The original, although not great, is much clearer than the web version. Sorry, couldn't be helped. No matter, it's clear enough and good enough to give everyone a pretty good idea of what went on down there in Brazil back in 91. According to the anchorman, the object performed a low altitude light show for a stunned urban crowd of "thousands" for over an hour and-a-half! Just a personal note: The next logical question any reasonable person would ask is, "Why isn't (our) media reporting on these historic events? Why haven't I heard of this before?" I have no answer for that. I came across it purely by accident. Budds' studio in Manhattan is jammed with stuff. I was looking over Budds shoulder while he put the finishing touches on a piece for the IF website when my eye caught sight of some dust bunny laden videotapes labelled, "UFO Video/Brazil 1991." I asked Budd what was on em and he said, "I don't know, I've never had a chance to look at them." (!) I asked if I could review them and he just gave them to me. Needless to say, it blew my socks off when I got home and saw what was on there. There's more, much more on that tape that I have not posted yet. There's one sequence (from 'another' recorded sighting) of a small UFO descending upon a row of houses that are about two city blocks distant from the photographer. The houses are low one story jobs and the photographer is shooting down onto the scene from an obviously higher vantage point. I'd put the photographer on the top floor of a three to five story building. (Guesstimate) The "UFO" comes down slowly, hovers over a small house, (windows are lit as if someone is inside) the UFO then descends (like a falling leaf) and disappears behind the house for three seconds and then rapidly rises to meet up with a larger brighter object that is stationary (hovering) overhead. The whole sequence lasts about 15 or 20 seconds! Personally, I'd like to know what the occupants of that house saw/remember, if anything at all! An 'abduction' caught on video? Who knows? It gives me the willies just to see that thing disappearing into those folks back yard like that! The point is, no one who is in a position to (properly) investigate or analyze these video documents is doing so, and simply because they are not 'aware' of its existance! Last night on the news they spent 3 mins. showing 16 year old anorexic modals 'working the boards' and, another three on the birth of a couple of gorilla's somewhere. That kind of 'fluff' and, 'local crime' seem to make up the bulk of the broadcasts. International news and events are now given what these yuppies call "The World in a Minute!" And that's all you get folks, a 'minute' of everything that happened in the world today! Newborn gorillas and skinny 16 year olds rate six minutes of air time! That's why you've never heard of this astounding event in Brazil, and never will! UFO stories are low on their priority list. They have a saying in newscasting, "If it bleeds, it leads" What does (that) tell ya kiddies? And then there (may be) some supression on higher more official levels but who really knows anything about that. I'll leave the conspiracy theories to our local, friendy paranoiacs and to those who are otherwise predisposed to those kinds of theories. It's just a shame that everyone has to rely on little schmucks like me, and others, to accidentally 'stumble upon' potentially important video documents! This stuff belongs to the people. And that's just who I've sent it to! (Use heavy Jamaican accent) Ju got de ball Babylon, now let's see ya run wit it. John Velez, Doin me 'ting' ja mon! ;-) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: brian <BMA97001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 16:48:32 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:02:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment Can someone please tell me where I can find a copy of the "Alien Autopsy" video that is currently occupying much of the debate in this list? Brian [Annino]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Nellis Video? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:32:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:05:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:56:26 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:27:41 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? John Velez wrote, ><snip> >>Bill, I don't think that what was captured at Nellis AFB had >>anything >>to do with 'human' designed and engineered experimental >>air or space craft. Otherwise what was it doing over Sao Paulo >>Brazil >>in 1991? =========================================== Hiya Amy, and hi All, The lovely Yellowrose of Texas inquires, >John, who filmed the object that was over Sao Paulo Brazil in 1991? The footage I have was recorded from a TV newscast. The original video was shot by a Brazilian newsteam that covered and recorded the event for their evening news show. The answer is, Pros, using pro equipment! >Was is filmed like the Nellis footage - over or near a military >>installation or was it an "average citizen" that filmed it or was >it >over a city, etc.? I've covered this in another post that maybe hasn't been published on the list yet so briefly, it was recorded on video by a network newsteam over a city (whose name I can't make out because I don't speak Portuguese! Sao Paolo is a 'state' not a city) and at one point the camera pans down to reveal a city street full of people that are all looking up and very animated, talking and waving and pointing at he sky. Looks like any given night here in NY! <G> Crowded city street scene Amy. Can't take a 'head count' the camera pan is too quick. Re: craft movements, Amy notes of an Ed Walters video,... >We ran the tape over and over in slow motion and discovered that >the >object did not just "disappear" it actually took off so fast >that the eye >could not track it. It hovered then just shot off at >a 25 degree angle >from it's apparant trajectory toward the heavens. That's precisely what this sucker is doing! I have made a very careful frame by frame study of this Brazilian UFO. In certain sequences the object can be seen streaking away within a frame or two of video! In other sections of the recording the UFO departs so quickly that, one frame it's there, and then it's gone in the next! The funny thing is that it appears to leave a smokey 'ghost image' of itself when it does this. Kind of like the roadrunner, when he takes off so fast from a dead standstill that all that's left is his shape inside a puff of smoke! One other feature that I'd like to draw everyones attention to is, notice how the air surrounding the UFO is affected. It must be constantly ionizing the air in the space that it occupies. Within certain frames the air surrounding it glows. >This also reminded me of the way a fly maneuvers because it shot up >at an angle from the path it was previously traversing. Like a >fly, it was there then suddenly gone. Yes, that's so wierd isn't it? When I first made the 'housefly' connection in my head (in regard to the erratic movements of the UFO from Brazil and the one from Nellis) I couldn't help feeling like Richard Dreyfus in 'Close Encounters' with the mashed potatoes! I kept saying to myself, "this means something",...I just don't know what that 'something' is! <G> I'm glad that some folks are looking at these. John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Strange Universe UFO Schedule From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 14:16:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:03:17 -0400 Subject: Strange Universe UFO Schedule Dear UFO watchers, I am forwarding to you the message from Scott on the Strange Universe production staff of the upcoming schedule of UFO segments to watch: Dear Bill: Thank you for getting the word out about our renewal. The letters generated by your efforts made a big difference. I am happy to announce that STRANGE UNIVERSE will be on the air for at least two more months, and then we expect to get a one year commitment. We need to have strong ratings for April & May. We are moving strongly towards expanded coverage of the emerging UFO phenomenon. These are the tentative air dates for upcoming UFO stories: TONIGHT (April 9th): A two parter on "Space Mesa" underground bases. FRIDAY (April 11th): The BIGFOOT-UFO connection. MONDAY, April 14th: A full show on the new "Alien Interrogation" tape and reaction from people like Whitley Strieber & Steve Neil. TUESDAY, April 15th: Cover story is on the Grand Junction, Colorado UFO's; The second story is on differences in alien abduction experience ranging from being healed by aliens to probed & penetrated. WEDNESDAY, April 16th: The second half of the show will be devoted to the Arizona UFO update story. <-----------NOTE: WE DID THIS ONE THURSDAY, April 17th: Our cover story is on IMMINENT DISCLOSURE featuring my recent interviews with Steven Greer, Bob Dean and Richard Boylan. We will include an update on the Washington DC briefings. FRIDAY, April 18th: No UFO stories. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Asst. State Director MUFON AZ Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Seeing is not believing From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:39:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:07:46 -0400 Subject: Seeing is not believing It has been said in the past that "seeing is Believing" it certainly looks in this case that "seeing is not believing!". There has been an awful lot of dissent over the AA film and a lot of conjecture. Who actually knows ALL the facts? Santilli? I'm pretty sure even he does'nt know all the facts. I say this for several reasons. Permit me if I may but here are some thoughts that I have had on this subject. 1) It has been said several times about the camera man getting the "right shots" and "positioning" etc. Could it not be possible that the chap in question was young and unpracticed in this art? 2)What was the procedure in 1947 for alien autopsy's? I'm fairly certain that "we" have one now, but back in '47? I'm sure that there was none. so why do we pass comment about what should or should-not have been done in the "theatre" of dissection. 3)It has been said, by several people, that if the alien bodies are S/FX dummies then they are extremely good ones. If I remember correctly a certain S/fx (his name escapes me) said that he would employ on the spot the man (or woman) who could do this kind of stuff, (remember the blood co-agulation etc) but back in '47 it would have been totally impossible to do this kind of stuff. 4) That brings me to another point, who has actually identified the film as from '47 stock other than one of Santilli's people? Acording to this board none. But according to the video that I have seen of the AA it has been verified by two top film people. One being Kodak themselves. 5)It has also been said that there are six other reels of film "out there" as yet unreleased or un-recoverable, what is on those reels of film? It has been hinted at that Truman himself was on one of those reels and that a fragment with him on footage clearly visible, now that I would LIKE to see. 6)The alien corpse, S/fx dummy aside, there was a number of these "bodies" not one, so surely if they where "fake" then only one would have been made as the cost of making just one is bound to have been exorbitant. also on this vein 7) It has also been said that the "greys" of the AA film are not your typical "grey" well the only thing I can say to this have you ever thought about your typical human/homo sapien? surely if we were to been seen by another race of beings how would you say that we are all the same when you have African blacks and Chinese, and European whites etc? Finally. If this film is the genuine article (which I would dearly like it to be) then it would be the "Holy Grail" that we have all been looking for. Is it possible that certain "agents of the government" connived a devious way for it to be "released" to create dissent in the ranks? I mean since the release of this film there has been a raging argument over it ever since. I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: billjaco@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:57:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:17:20 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment > >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment [snip] > Even in a non-critial case, FAR more care would be taken than was shown > in the AA case. It's just NOT realistic. And you will NOT see > round-bottomed stainless steel bowls in a medical setting, they're far > too easy to tip over. Medical trays and bowls are flat-bottomed. This may be the case today - but looking through "Images of Medicine" (Jim Harter; Bonanza Publishing) it looks as though at one time round bottom bowls were regularly used (albeit most with extended stands) in the medical setting. Bill J[acobs]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 A Need to Know and You Don't Need to Know From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:21:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:12:49 -0400 Subject: A Need to Know and You Don't Need to Know I thought this might be of interest to the list, especially for subscribers in the US. As always, you must make of it what you will. I mentioned this on CompuServe last year and some current discussions there were a reminder I had kept this on file: On 15 January, 1996, a UK national TV series, The Paranormal World of Paul McKenna (a well known stage hypnotist), discussed the subject of UFOs. The program featured a brief interview with former US President Jimmy Carter, interviewed (it seemed specifically for the program) as he was leaving a building with some colleagues. He was asked about his own UFO sighting and stopped to obligingly gave details. Nothing of significance in that, but what was interesting was his response to a quick follow-up question: "In ' 76 you said you'd try and get the release of all information to the public and to scientists about other UFO sightings. Do you think you achieved that?" Carter responded: "I'm not sure, but we did release a lot of the information..." At this point his pleasant demeanour changes and with a noticeably more serious look, he adds: "...but I don't know how much was not released". James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Beyond Belief From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:23:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:14:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief Regarding... >Date: 08 Apr 97 17:43:07 EDT >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' Michael wrote: >Noone, by the way, was paid or hired by Ray Santilli, as James Easton >uses to claim, and most members paid all expenses out of their own >pockets (about $ 10.000 in my case). Michael, As you well know, it was never claimed you had received any money from Ray Santilli, only that it was understood you had personally confirmed the fact that you had. The difficulty was, your response was not quite the full story. For example: "If you don't put your cards on the table, why should I show mine? Who cares if Ray used some footage I filmed? I told you that I delivered material to RTL TV for their programme on the Santilli footage, they sent the tape to Ray, Ray sent it to Mexican TV (Televisa)". Material was "used, delivered and sent", but money didn't come into it. Or, as you alternatively claimed: "Indeed the interviews used in Rays Roswell video are my footage, but I gave it to RTL Television in Germany and Ray got it from RTL. Ray asked me if he can use it and I gave him the permission. So what?" The "so what" was the fact that you hadn't just given the footage to RTL and Ray hadn't simply asked you for permission to use it. It was known there was a bit more involved, as you later had to admit: "After I sold material to RTL, Ray learned about this footage I shot in Roswell, New Mexico in 1993 (with no connection with the Autopsy event). Since I'm a well-known personality in the German UFO research, RTL had interviewed me, when they decided to buy the AA film, and I offered and sold them these 6 or 7 interviews plus location shots for the programme they prepared about Roswell with international rights, since they planned to sell it to other stations. Ray received this material from RTL TV and paid $10.000 for it quite promptly. Since I was involved and received a percentage of the amount...". "For those who believe "it's a lot of money" let me say that it was $400,-- a minute, a usual fee for video rights of TV material. It cost me about the same amount to shoot the interviews and location shots during three visits in New Mexico, together with a professional cameraman and a camera assistant. So, at the bottom line, the deal with RTL and Rays deal were just a reimbursement". >The claim that I claimed that the cameraman spoke about re-reopening >of the mine as a cover story is a misunderstanding. "As the cameraman >said", clearly referred to the DATE... Here it is again, Michael: "Above the dry lake bed we located an old mine. According to the New Mexico Office of Mining & Technology in Socorro it was a manganese mine, called "Niggerhead Mine", which was closed in 1938, reopened during the war when manganese was precious and needed, and closed down again in 1945. According to the cameraman, it was again reopened by the US Government (Department of the Interior), but with no further mining, on the very day the retrieval began: 1st June 1947". That's quite a "misunderstanding" you have there. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 09 Apr 97 20:00:33 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:11:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 08 Apr 97 19:50:03 EDT >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment Da dook wrote; >Incidentally, I don't *think* authenticating a strip of film (with >appropriate attendant images) would prove a damn' thing. What's to >stop anyone shooting a film tomorrow on well-preserved 1947 stock? >(I bow to informed opinion here.) Hardly informed opinion, but just a vaguely suspicious mind that has dogged my belief in film testing of any kind by anybody. Surely it's easier to get hold of cutting room debris, or _home movies_ of say, Elvis, from the approximate era and produce these as evidence after a bona fide examination of the film stock by a lab that doesn't know the exacting, and frankly almost 'double-blind' conditions proffered by Kodak as conditions for testing. I should be a UFOlogist, with a mind like that. I'm still interested in the actual letter of the Italian examination of the film that Bob/Ray/etc. supplied to this European wing of the IRT. Not that I'd understand it, but I have friends that claim to be chemists. Does anyone know if Micheal Hesseman has addressed the mistake in his Nexus article where he promotes VonKeviczky to 'Colonel' and describes him as working for the UN, although this appears to be the same misunderstanding that follows SEAT conferances in that this man works _in_ the UN building. The general demeanour of Colman as a promoter of UFOlogy hasn't escaped notice, either. I'm sorry to offend anyone that thinks this is a big issue; I will consider the Autopsy film a hoax unless we get something conclusive. As I pointed out recently on one of CompuServe's fora, what makes this cameraman more credible than Stanton's? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Nellis Video? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:52:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:20:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:56:26 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? > >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:27:41 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? > <snip> > <snip> > In 1994, at an Ozark UFO conference in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, Mr. > Wingfield, Bob Reid and others gathered at the "Lone Star Bar" and reviewed > a tape just made by Ed Walters of a UFO over a beach in Gulf Breeze. The > object appeared to travel slowly, hover then suddenly ...disappear. We ran > the tape over and over in slow motion and discovered that the object did not > just "disappear" it actually took off so fast that the eye could not track > it. It hovered then just shot off at a 25 degree angle from it's apparant > trajectory toward the heavens. This also reminded me of the way a fly > maneuvers because it shot up at an angle from the path it was previously > traversing. Like a fly, it was there then suddenly gone. > These things may be flying at incredible speeds faster than the eye can see > and they can be turning their lights off and on as well. Makes one wonder > if they somehow KNOW they are being photographed and are "demonstrating" > their technology. > <snip> > >Fascinating stuff, I hope that some of you guys are analysing these, and > >the rest of you enjoying them. > Us "Gals" are analysing them too! It IS fascinating! > Thanks, John! > A. Hebert Amy, You may find Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects - A Scientific Analysis" Section II Performance, section C on Acceleration and section D on the Optical Effects of High Acceleration helpful in understanding that tape. He gives a reasoned scientific analysis of the behavior you saw on the tape. It's not that these devices are flying so fast, it's that they are accelerating at higher speeds than most conventional objects. Not many people have seen missles capable of high acceleration launches, e.g. terminal phase anti-ballistic missles or rail gun projectiles, they show the same accelleration effect. Its just that one doesn't expect an aerial craft to be capable of doing the same. Unconventional Flying Objects - A Scientific Analysis. Paul R. Hill $15.95 Hampton Roads Publishing Company, Inc. 800 766 8009 804 296 2772 804 296 5096 fax Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Additional Information from Luc Buergin on Meier From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 09 Apr 97 21:28:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:21:51 -0400 Subject: Additional Information from Luc Buergin on Meier Date: 09 Apr 97 19:43:00 CET From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Additional Information from Luc Buergin _____________________________________________________________________ The following is a statement of Luc Buergin (Switzerland) which we forward on his behalf and authorization. _____________________________________________________________________ *Additional Information To The Interview With Kalliope Meier* Interview in: UFO-KURIER (Germany) No. 30/1997 from *Luc Buergin (Switzerland)* The accusation that I have never spoken with Billy Meier is only partially true. Indeed, I have never met him in person but exchanged several very extensive letters with him. At least since some weeks, I am no longer interested in a personal talk with Billy, when his recent pamphlet about me which is full of wild and false insults came to my knowledge. You all can read the English version of this pamphlet under: http://is.eunet.ch:80/figu/ Re Kalliope: Since about a year I have ongoing contact to her and visited her at her home several times. Right here I would like to stress that Mrs. Meier is a very honest, rather low-keyed but sincere and sympathic individual. I have had hour-long talks with her in which she repeatedly confirmed that she did not want to harm her husband. It was me who urged Kalliope finally to publish her testimony. Only a few weeks ago, she agreed to to so. At last, she did so because Meier is attacking her on his Internet page in an offensive and insulting way which is degrading for a "prophet of the modern age". I should mention that Kalliope told me many other things about her husband and the FIGU which added to my bad impression about Billy. But because these things are not directly related to his "UFO experiences" I refrain from telling them here. So far at the moment. Luc Buergin April 1997 ______________________________________________________________________ Mit freundlichen Gruessen Joachim Koch FIDO: 2:2410/704.20 Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage of the International Roswell Initiative, Germany: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 16:52:08 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:23:08 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: 08 Apr 97 17:43:07 EDT >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >1. The IRT consists of about 20 people including well-known >UFO researchers, not just Phil Bob and myself. A main part >of the field investigation in Socorro was done by Ted Loman >and 4 fellow members of UFO AZ, and, before, by Llewellyan >Wykel and his fiancee. Noone, by the way, was paid or hired >by Ray Santilli, as James Easton uses to claim, and most >members paid all expenses out of their own pockets (about $ >10.000 in my case). From what I've seen of Bob Shell's incessant evasions, rationalizations, and convenient amnesia concerning facts that cast doubt on the authenticity of Santilli's alien autopsy video, I'm tempted to characterize your so-called IRT as having an Infinitesimal Regard for the Truth. Without access to the actual "film," or positive identification of (much less face-to-face on-the-record interviews with) "The Cameraman" or any other relevant eyewitness or evidence, just what exactly is there for the "IRT" to research? >3. Bob and myself agreed to diagree on the crash site location, >although I have good reasons to feel right: >a. The cameraman confirmed, after receiving photos, that it is >the right site >b. A drawing based on the cameramans sketch of the crash scene >clearly shows the landscape features you see when you enter the >site through the Bear Canyon. >c. On the very site the cameraman drew the spaceship we found a >60 feet wide and 9 feet high area of chiseled out rock - did >someone try to remove traces? Again, how do you know that "The Cameraman" said or drew anything -- unless you have positively identified this alleged mystery man and interviewed him personally. Or are you taking Santilli's word that this is what "The Cameraman" said? If so, that's not "research" -- it's marketing. Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Intelligence Agencies and NICA From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:19:01 -0400 Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICA Greetings: For the three people who even care I would like to address some of the some of the basic beliefs and articles of faith of ufology. For some the US intelligence agencies are sort of all seeing all knowing gods. Gee whiz books about World War II seem to imply intelligence won the war. One of Walter Cronkite's most famous news/history specials was "Air Power". Air power won the war. Walk around the Field Artillery Center at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and you will find this quote posted all over the place: "Who won the war? The Field Artillery won the war?--Gen George Patton." Of course, there is the old saw that the battle isn't won until the infantry controls the area. Intelligence is absolutely vital, but is not infalliable. Even with ULTRA and all the other devices, programs, codebreakers, etc. the Allies still had major intellignece failures. The formation of the CIA was suppose to prevent another Pearl Harbor. If you read the press at the time, some expressed the worry that the CIA would be dominated by the Armed Services. Newly promoted Rear Admiral Hillenkoetter was ranked by the Service intelligence chiefs. If the CIA functioned the way the agency was "sold" to Congress, there would not have been a need for Defense Intelligence Agency. The intelligence "comunity" is not a monolithic structure. The intelligence sections of each agency respond to the agency head. The are always competing interests. The DCI is the Czar of Intelligence. A check of history shows that is not alway so. Since the CIA was formed there have been some intelligence coups and some real disasters and some real abuses of power: Prague Spring, collections of intelligence on civilians by the military, the Fall of the Wall, the Collaspe of the Soviet Union are a few. When we look at the military, intelligence and counter intelligence failures are legion. B-52 raids: The North Vietnamese knew we were coming and they knew where, but worse of all the intelligence failures was the idea that it did not matter. If the B-52s attacked, the roads and infra-structure of the "damn dings" were destroyed, and this was so noted on situation maps. Except the "damn dings"--who were very resourceful people and not stupid peasants-- would not despair; they simply organized battalions of workers to fill the holes enough for a makeshift path for bicycles and continued transporting the military equipments and troops south over routes that were "destroyed" on American situation maps. In Asia they have what they call "industrial bicycles." The amount material they can transport is truly amazing. Several people suggested bicycles for the American "Light" Divisions. The laughter still has not stopped. (Asked the British, Indian, and Australian troops in Malay during World War II about the Japanese troops on bicycles.) Now these are the same intelligence people that are running a giant watertight security UFO cover up campaign down to such low levels that just about everybody in the military with a security clearance is involved. We are talking about Americans here, aren't we? If you get two together, there are three opinions on everything. So how do you think they could run such a cover up. Enough prologue on to NICAP. A number people interested in UFOs attempted to set up a national center for collections and evaluations of reports. How it would operate and exactly what it would do and who would be involved it was all up for graps. Morris Jessup and several others had there own ideas of how it would run. The leadership under T. T. Brown was wishy-washy. So at one meeting Keyhoe stuck his foot in his mouth and told them all off. He ended up running the thing. He was able enlist some of his old military buddies some of whom had UFO experiences themselve. The job he thought might last six months. Admiral D. S. Fahrney had a number of technicians who reported UFOs. Fahrney was rather active in the beginning of NICAP until his wife took sick. Keyhoe intended his appointment would be temporary. NICAP started off with a grandiose schemes. General Wedermeyer (sp?) was susposed to head the evaluation section. Just the mention of his name brought forth some UFO reports from people. NICAP was in debt when Keyhoe took over. Support promised never materialized. Keyhoe promised a bimonthly 24 page magazine, and monthly bulletin. When NICAP fell behind the publication schedule, Keyhoe cut the size of the publication and insisted on extending everyone's membership until they got until they got the exact number of pages promised. So he got no renewals for over two and half years. By which time the more debt mounted up even more. (Hynek and Vallee made little snipes in their books about how much money NICAP had. Neither set foot in NICAP during the years Hall and Keyhoe were there. They could have used the telephone to verify this, but it appears that for ufologists the telephone is a difficult instrument to master.) Also, at the time NICAP had no tax examption. They had to pay federal tax and all local and other taxes. At the formation of NICAP there were a number of intelligence people and even maybe some people that once took the CIA dime. However, NICAP soon became Major Keyhoe, Lee Munick and Rose Campbell. Please pick out the CIA agent! Later Richard Hall replaced Lee Munick. Now pick out the CIA agent! The Board functioned in name only during most of Keyhoe's tenure. Edwards, Baller, and Maney were the most active. Pick out CIA member! After the UFO Evidence," membership and interest increase and it was possible to hire some more staff. Keyhoe and Hall drew only part of their salaries and were owed thousands of dollars by NICAP. By the time of the Condon Committee the staff had swelled to about 12. Some of the money coming in was overhead for copying NICAP material for the Condon Committee. However, by the time of the release of the Condon report public interest in UFOs had receded as the War in Southeast Asia held America's attention. Hall and Keyhoe had a split, and Hall was trying to work himself out of a job. (Hall was not fired per some UFO book. Again, that telephone thing...) The Board had become more active in line with Keyhoe's, Hall's, and Gordon Lore's wishes. When Lore became assistant director, he saw NICAP finacial position deteriorating. He claimed that Keyhoe turned a deaf ear to him. He then engineered a coup to remove Keyhoe. He went to the Board and told them they could be held responsible for NICAP debts and poor management and they might become entangled with the IRS. The Board gave Lore the authority to lay off most of the staff and come up with a turn around strategy which would include producing booklets and reports for sale and reducing overhead. Lore's effort showed little progress so the Board removed him and placed Stewart Nixon at the head. Well, if you had asked Idabel Epperson, she would probably tell you that Nixon was a CIA plant. He was about the last person to run a membership organization, but he did get the finances under control with ruthless help of Hartcraft, Emerson and Dewey Fournet. They hired Acuff's {mis]management firm to run administrative matters. In the end a former CIA employee ended up running NICAP from his home. Once CIA, I guess, always CIA. However, the files were not destroyed or thrown away. CUFOS with the help of several "angels" (mostly John Timmerman) came up with the money to buy the files. Now if the CIA wanted to destroy NICAP why did they not destroy the files. Why didn't the CIA destroy CUFOS? I have been accused of revisionist history. To revise something there first must be a *history.* When I visited Hall, I got an ear full! No one, has ever come to him and asked about NICAP history. Several of the people from this era are dead, Keyhoe, Emerson, Hartcraft, Bryan, Isabel Davis, James McDonald, Ray Angier, Idabel Epperson, Sherman Larson, Albert Baller, etc. However, it is still possible to talk to Richard Hall, Ted Bloecher, George Earley, Dewey Fournet, Gordon Lore, Diana Knopf-Sinkler, Accuf, Don Berliner, and Stewart Nixon. To the best of Hall's and my knowledge no one has. Todd Zeichell's little expose is based mostly on his own ideas and imagination. He did not do much research, but his ideas have caught on in ufology. Now I asked two of the very thorough UFO historians, Barry Greenwood and Loren Gross, where they got their information about the CIA and NICAP. They both said they had not done any original research in this area, but had just repeated what was in the literature. The more it is repeated the better it becomes. George Knapp at the 1994 MUFON Conference told his audience that the CIA destroyed NICAP and APRO. Talk about revisonist history! The Lorenzens' died without naming a sucessor. This is hardly a CIA plot. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Serious Space Scientists Seek ET From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:42 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:28:37 -0400 Subject: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET FEATURE-Far from fringe, serious space scientists seek ET 10:12 p.m. Apr 09, 1997 Eastern WASHINGTON, April 10 (Reuter) - True or false? 1. A mother-ship full of space aliens is hovering over Earth, ready to take Earthlings to a ``level above human.'' 2. This spaceship took cover behind the spectacular Hale-Bopp comet. 3. NASA and the White House are backing a sophisticated effort to find extraterrestrial life and Earth-like planets where humans might eventually live. The answers, experts at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration say, are: False, False -- and True. The search for intelligent life beyond Mother Earth is at the heart of NASA's Origins programme, which is expected to spend more than $1 billion over the next five years trying to answer such cosmic questions as when and how the universe began, when it might end and whether life exists ``out there.'' Far from a fringe element, the scientists who work on Origins are mainstream, conservative astronomers who believe the odds strongly favour the existence of extraterrestrials, given the trillions of sun-like stars and the possibility that life might evolve somewhere within their orbits. ``I can argue that chances of intelligent life out there are 100 percent,'' said Ed Weiler, director of Origins and chief scientist for the Hubble Space Telescope programme. The search for such life is a key element of the vision for NASA, Weiler said, but he stressed: ``NASA's not spending money going out looking for little green men. ... What we're trying to find is places where people might live.'' MARS, JUPITER MOONS ARE CANDIDATES FOR LIFE Good candidates in our own solar system include Mars, especially after the discovery of a putative Martian meteorite that may contain microscopic fossilized microbes, and Jupiter's moons Europa and Titan. Outside the solar system, at least a dozen stars appear to have planet-like companions. Science fiction amuses Weiler -- he loved the big-screen space alien attack fantasy ``Independence Day'' -- but he rejected claims by fringe groups, notably the suicidal members of the Heaven's Gate cult, that any contact with extraterrestrials has been made. Cult members apparently believed that a spacecraft, shielded by the Hale-Bopp comet, was coming to take them to the next ``level above human,'' but that they had to leave their earthly bodies behind. Thirty-nine members committed suicide last month in a mansion in Rancho Santa Fe, California. Weiler and others engaged in the scientific search for other-worldly life discount such scenarios. ``There seems to be no ability to distinguish between science and pseudo-science,'' said Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California, which has been looking for a radio response from extraterrestrials for three decades. As an astronomer for SETI, which stands for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, Tarter's job is to sift through transmissions picked up by radio telescopes and processed by SETI's large but transportable supercomputer. NO WORD FROM THE BEYOND -- YET So far, no one at SETI has heard anything that has been confirmed as a message from the great beyond; usually, the mysterious signals turn out to emanate from human-made spacecraft, Tarter said. But she remained hopeful. ``Part of this game is scepticism,'' she said in a telephone interview. ``If we ever announce that we have a signal there will be a great deal of evidence to prove our point, because it would be very bad science and bad PR to announce something that wasn't credible.'' NASA formerly provided $10 million annually to SETI, until funding was cut off by Congress in 1993 -- ``It was the giggle factor,'' Tarter acknowledged -- and now the project is funded privately. ``It's clearly not a joke,'' she said. Certainly not to the White House, which is backing the search with a $1 billion budget. And definitely not to Steve Maran of the American Astronomical Society. ``I think it would be the height of arrogance to think that we are the intellectual summit of the Milky Way,'' Maran told Reuters. ``We have evidence now that there are lots of other planets and solar systems out there and it's hard not to believe that there's something more intelligent than the morning drive show out there -- and someday we'll detect it.'' Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 'Expert' commen From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:16:12 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:32:29 -0400 Subject: 'Expert' commen Bud Jamison wrote: >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:03:44 EDT >Having spent 3 years as a Medical Photographer, 2 of them in the Air >Force, at Wilford Hall Hospital, and having spent MANY hours taking both >stills and movies in surgical situations (including organ transplants), >I can say without a doubt that a photographer, sent officially to >DOCUMENT anything, has a LOT of say as to how the setting is worked. >And in the alien autopsy, there is NO indication of any true examination >of the alien. An autopsy of a human that died from natural causes would >be more through. I was writing under the impression that the examination was not a forensic autopsy, but an attempt to secure and preserve as many organs as possible. The cause of death (air collision) had already been established. Keep in mind that another "alien" had supposedly been autopsied before the one on the infamous Santilli film footage. I don't claim that the footage is authentic, but am merely staying within the bounds of the story as I understand it--and I'm more than aware that this may be nothing more than a "story." >>The motions of the cameraman are consistent with those of someone >>not wanting to disrupt a delicate (and unprecedented) procedure. >They're more consistant with someone following a script. Then this is truly one _awful_ script! **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:34:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:34:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment Hi Brian, >Can someone please tell me where I can find a copy of >the "Alien Autopsy" video that is currently occupying >much of the debate in this list? I have 4 sequences in the multimedia section of KUFOR - http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo Best Regards, Karel. +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 IUFO: Video of Alien Interrogation on Strange From: dcox@ix.netcom.com (Danny Cox) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:29:43 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:17:50 -0400 Subject: IUFO: Video of Alien Interrogation on Strange A portion of a video which was supposedly smuggled out of Area 51 and shows the interrogation of an alien entity will be shown on the "Strange Universe" TV program on Monday April 14. The entire program will be devoted to this subject. Check your TV guide for the "Strange Universe" schedule. In my area (southeast Florida), the program runs in the morning at 10:30 AM on an independent station (channel 39). Danny
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:55:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP Jan I would like to give a possible answer to the question below as to why the CIA did not distroy the files. Or any other agency for that matter. >They hired Acuff's {mis]management firm to run >administrative matters. In the end a former CIA employee >ended up running NICAP from his home. Once CIA, I guess, >always CIA. However, the files were not destroyed or >thrown away. CUFOS with the help of several "angels" >(mostly John Timmerman) came up with the money to buy the >files. Now if the CIA wanted to destroy NICAP why did they >not destroy the files. Why didn't the CIA destroy CUFOS? Jan have you considered the possibility that UFO organizations if properly managed would not be a threat to a coverup but could be a intelligence asset. As long as the organizations did not involve themselves in political activity and were steered toward solving the UFO issue as a scientific problem they could be quite helpful as intelligence gathering assets. For instance the civilians could be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance methods. Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to gather raw data. One of the problems with the intelligence failures in Russia was that ground based human intelligence was very poor and the Russians focused very strongly on that area keeping it that way. I think it reasonable to assume that if we are dealing with sophisticated ET craft that they would be able to easly deal with our electronic surveillance technologies. You answer this question yourself per your discussion on how the N. Vet low tech approach fuctioned quite well against a superior U.S. Technology. Well maybe we are in the same position at North Vietnam this time around. Consider that. The best, Ed Komarek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Apr 97 18:22:13 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:06:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 08 Apr 97 19:50:03 EDT >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Does anyone know if Micheal Hesseman has addressed the mistake >in his Nexus article where he promotes VonKeviczky to 'Colonel' >and describes him as working for the UN, although this appears >to be the same misunderstanding that follows SEAT conferances >in that this man works _in_ the UN building. The general >demeanour of Colman as a promoter of UFOlogy hasn't escaped >notice, either. It was no mistake at all. Indeed Colman VonKeviczky, a Hungarian, was promoted and became full colonel in 1993, when the young democracy rehabilitated former officers of the Royal Hungarian Army. Furthermore he didn't work in a photo shop in the UN, as James Moseley claimed, but was a member of the official audiovisual staff of the UN HQ in NY. You can confirm it, by checking the 1966 UN HQ directory. Colman wrote a letter to Jim Moseley and informed him that I was right and he was wrong. Colman is not a member of SEAT. SEAT, founded by UN-Coworker Mohammed Ramadan, is officially recognized as a recreational and educational club for UN staff members. Greetings, Michael Hesemann Search for other documents from or mentioning: 100660.3672 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: billjaco@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:38:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:59:30 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment > >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment > Having spent 3 years as a Medical Photographer, 2 of them in the Air > Force, at Wilford Hall Hospital, and having spent MANY hours taking both > stills and movies in surgical situations (including organ transplants), Maybe I just missed it being a new subscriber but isn't there archived autopsy films that could be used for comparison? Have the doctors performing the autopsy been identified or has any next of kin come forward? Bill Jacobs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:08:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:04:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment > From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) > Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:03:44 EDT > >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:19:33 +0000 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment > >If these are really top-notch medical people operating on an apparent > >alien creature, then it would seem to me that the doctors would be > >in more or less strict control of the situation--not the cameraman! DON'T attribute the foregoing to me (Don Ledger). I started this cameraman argument in the first place Bud by making the observation that any of the cameramen I employ or hire are tenacious when it comes to getting their shot. Getting between a camaraman or woman and their objective is pretty much the same as getting between a Grizzley bear and her cubs. > Having spent 3 years as a Medical Photographer, 2 of them in the Air > Force, at Wilford Hall Hospital, and having spent MANY hours taking both > stills and movies in surgical situations (including organ transplants), > I can say without a doubt that a photographer, sent officially to > DOCUMENT anything, has a LOT of say as to how the setting is worked. I also made the observation that I thought the cameraman in that piece of fiction referred to as the "Alien Autopsy" was a little too timid for my liking and lacking in any decent equipment. A little windup Agfa camera or what have you in something this important. Come on!! I agree with your comments Bud If you go back into this file a few days you will find my actual comments. You will find you wer supporting mine. Don Ledger > And in the alien autopsy, there is NO indication of any true examination > of the alien. An autopsy of a human that died from natural causes would > be more through. > >The motions of the cameraman are consistent with those of someone > >not wanting to disrupt a delicate (and unprecedented) procedure. > They're more consistant with someone following a script. Right on Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Apr 97 18:35:28 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:57:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: 08 Apr 97 17:43:07 EDT >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Without access to the actual "film," or positive identification >of (much less face-to-face on-the-record interviews with) "The >Cameraman" or any other relevant eyewitness or evidence, just >what exactly is there for the "IRT" to research? In historical research -which, besides Cultural Anthropology, is my area of expertise, I studied it at Gottingen University - you rarely speak with a witness of a historical event, because in most cases noone is alive anymore, and of many documents you only have many-generations-reproductions. Still, we do have fragments of the film, we have the cameramans story and the film itself, and that was enough material for our investigation of many different aspects of the film and its content. We don't have PROOF that the film is authentic, but the evidence indicates it is. >Again, how do you know that "The Cameraman" said or drew >anything -- unless you have positively identified this alleged >mystery man and interviewed him personally. Or are you taking >Santilli's word that this is what "The Cameraman" said? A personal interview doesn't prove anything. I interviewed Frank Kaufmann in person but that doesn't mean automatically that he is telling the truth. Even if I would meet the cameraman and he could prove he worked for the military, it still wouldn't PROVE he filmed an alien autopsy. And the sceptics would still say Ray Santilli hired an old cameraman to tell the story he wanted him to tell. What counts is INFORMATION. I don't care if Ray dreamed the cameramans story (and is a psychic), if he got the info from a gov't agent or if the cameraman-story is true - FACT is that I could verify parts of its CONTENT. > that's not "research" -- it's marketing. What do I sell? Yes, I did write a book which informs the public about the results of my investigation. From a marketing point of view my positive conclusion is stupid. The book would sell much better if I could expose the autopsy being a fake, as everyone suspects. Kent Jeffrey wrote the most idiotic paper someone could write on the film, arguing that "it cannot be authentic since aliens would never look as humanoid", and he was celebrated by MUFON. I wrote a scientific paper on my investigation, MUFON didn't want it. The public WANTS to hear it's a fake! I don't have anything to do with the marketing of Santillis films (I just offered a video to my readers, so they can form their own opinion), I was never paid by Ray, so where's the marketing interest? Greetings, Michael Hesemann, Dusseldorf/Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Aftermath of Heaven's Gate: Who Is Responsible? From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:30:34 -0400 Subject: Aftermath of Heaven's Gate: Who Is Responsible? Aftermath of Heaven's Gate: Who Is Responsible? by Don Ecker Since the story broke on the mass suicide of the Heaven's Gate Cult led by leader Marshall H. Applewhite, a media feeding frenzy has broken out across the entire world. UFO Magazine has been besieged by media, ranging from all the national television networks and major print publications to many news organizations in Europe, all searching for answers. All were asking the same basic questions: How could this happen? Who do you think is responsible? Friday morning, March 29, I arose very early to keep a doctor's appointment. Turning on the radio to a local Los Angeles A.M. station, I heard a short interview conducted with noted skeptic James "The Amazing" Randi. Randi, always a strident debunker concerning UFOs, was vociferously laying the blame for the tragedy on talk show host Art Bell. Bell, a popular late night talk show host, heads up the Monday through Friday program "Coast to Coast with Art Bell." If you are not familiar with Bell or his talk program you may not make the connection on how he could bear any culpability with this bizarre mass suicide. What could be the connection? First, a few words about UFO Magazine. What places us in a position to comment on what is happening in this confused field? Begun in 1986 by Vicki Cooper Ecker and her former partner Sherie Stark, the magazine was created when both saw a need to report on this subject in legitimate manner, because no one else was doing so. Over the years, UFO Magazine has garnered a reputation for reporting on the UFO subject in a no-holds-barred manner. Not always acquiring friends because of our straightforward approach, we feel that this subject is much more important in the scheme of things than most will give it credit for. Over the years, we have done expose after expose on people and cases that have genuinely harmed the field--exposes on the likes of George Green and the Phoenix group and their anti-Semitic tripe, Bo and Peep and the Heaven's Gate cult, Milton "Bill" Cooper and his claims of secret Navy documents on the JFK assassination and evil grey aliens, and a particularly hardy specimen of kook once known as Mel Noel, a.k.a. Guy Kirkwood and his claims of flying Air Force Sabre Jets chasing UFOs, the truth about Harley Byrd and his obnoxious claims involving Admiral Richard Byrd, and many more over the course of our 11 years of publishing. These stories and others separating the signal from the noise in UFO research have been given the space they get nowhere else. Over the years, we have broken some of the most amazing "true" UFO cases that received little or no exposure in the "straight" media; cases that should have made the front page of newspapers around the world: the amazing former Soviet Mars probes "Phobos I and II" apparently struck by a stupendous "15- mile object;" stories like STS-48, the Discovery space shuttle and the anomalies it encountered in orbit during the September, 1991 mission--later claimed by NASA spokesmen to be "frozen urine" from a waste-water dump--stories that have impacted national security like the Hudson Valley Sightings in New York state, where tens of thousands of witnesses observed (over about a three year period) one or more "huge" UFOs that witnesses claimed were at least as large as a football field! Yet reasonable media coverage of these obviously newsworthy UFO incidents never came. For example, in the Hudson Valley case, an object was seen hovering over the Indian Point Nuclear Power plant, and according to former security officials, "shut down the security system." This breach of security took place with nary an inquiry from any media source. But now, with the tragic death of 39 misguided if not deranged people, the media floodgates have opened. But the signal to noise ratio looks as bad as ever. Art Bell's radio show opened like usual on Thursday evening, Friday morning November 14 and 15. However, something happened that ended up impacting ufology and the general media like nothing else in years. Bell received a call from Chuck Shramek, a listener in Houston, Texas who works in radio and has an interest in amateur astronomy. According to Shramek, he had observed the Hale-Bopp comet through his 10" Schmidt- Cassegrain telescope and imaged the comet with a CCD camera. Pictured beside the comet was an object that Shramek could not identify. He described it as an object resembling Saturn, hence the nickname, "SLO or Saturn like object." Shramek forwarded this photo to Bell's website, where it was put up for all to view and download. Within 24 hours this "Hale-Bopp companion" story had traveled around the world via the Internet. Shramek had told Bell that he had tried to identify this object via his astronomy software on his computer, with no luck. Within several days, however, this story ignited controversy across the web. Among people jumping into the fray was Alan Hale, one of the two discoverers of Hale-Bopp. Hale accused Shramek of "promoting government conspiracies" and then "promoting the works of fringe writers like Richard Hoagland and Zecharia Sitchin." Stung by such criticism, Shramek retaliated with the remark that the likes of Hale were "butthead astronomers." Shortly thereafter, Dr. Courtney Brown appeared on Bell's program along with his assistant Prudence Calabrese. Brown, the author of a book and director of a remote viewing facility called Farsight Institute, teaches at Emory University. Calabrese had been billed as a "physicist." (though actually a student and Brown's webmaster for his "Farsight Institute".) Both Brown and Calabrese claimed to have both verbal confirmation and physical proof of the comet's companion object, from a "top ten," highly respected and renowned astronomer. Brown and Calabrese claimed this astronomer had seen and documented the comet's companion. The physical proof offered by Brown was in the form of a photograph he sent to Bell, which Brown claimed he received from this astronomer. Brown stipulated to Bell (and also Whitley Strieber, who appeared on the show and also received a copy of this photo) that the picture "must" be kept secret until this astronomer held his own press conference, in which the whole story was to come out. Brown stated that the conference would be held within a week or so. Up to this point, Bell had allowed these guests free rein in discussing this material. Bell has never been strong on challenging information put out by his guests. Brown, whose "Cosmic Voyage" is concerned with his alleged prowess at "remote viewing," claimed he and others from the "Farsight Institute" had remotely viewed this "companion" object, and said it was several times the size of Earth and filled with aliens. President Clinton, according to Brown, was reluctantly agreeing to make an official pronouncement (per Farsight's "remotely viewed" information). It should be noted that in the last several years, Bell has had on his show a number of guests who, at the least, present very questionable claims, and in some cases outright lunacy. In 1995, it had come to UFO Magazine's attention that one of the guests Bell was about to host was one "Dr. Harley Byrd," who claimed to be the nephew--or possibly the grandson--of famed arctic explorer Admiral Richard Byrd. In connection with us, video producer Russ Estes had already interviewed Harley Byrd. An expose on Byrd was documented on Estes' video, "Quality of the Messenger." Then Estes and I heard that Bell was about to have Byrd on his show, knowing what a genuine lunatic Byrd was. At that time, both Estes and I had already been to the LAPD, the sheriffs depts. of both L.A. and San Bernardino counties, the Postal Inspector and the FBI, because subsequent to production of "Quality of the Messenger," Byrd "flipped out" and had gone on a massive harassment campaign against us. And not only us. Walt Andrus, Jim Dilettoso and a number of others were harassed by Byrd with obscene letters, telephoned death threats, and so on. At one time, Byrd was arrested and convicted of public indecency (he exposed himself to some people in a park). Our concern was that Bell had a national show, and since I was also a broadcaster concerned with trying to keep the UFO subject as "legitimate" as possible, a warning to Bell was in order. When Estes called him up, Bell immediately took an antagonistic stance. Estes offered to send Bell photocopies of proof that Byrd was not related to Admiral Richard Byrd. Among others interviewed, Estes had spoken to Harley's own father who told him that Harley had been "disturbed" and under therapeutic care for a long time. Bell wasn't interested, but then tried to get Estes to come on the program to "confront" Byrd. When Estes declined, Bell called my office in an attempt to get me on the show to confront Byrd. I had no interest in that, either--after all I had my own show to worry about. The upshot was Byrd appeared on Bell's show and within an hour, even Bell had more than he could deal with. He "lost" the telephone connection and then claimed he could not re-connect with Harley. Later, in 1996, Major Ed Dames was the guest on Bell's program several times. Dames is noted for being a "remote viewer" who had been connected to the DIA's remote viewing project. Many people have assumed that Dames was a project remote viewer, but he was actually a "monitor," who didn't remote view himself but assisted the remote viewers. What made Dames' a unique talk show guest was the amount of "doom and gloom" he claimed to have seen. Even though Dames claims 100 percent accuracy, I and others know he's "missed by a mile" in some of these predictions. On March 21, 1993, Ed Dames appeared as a speaker at a conference on anomalous trauma. During a Q&A session, Carolyn Duce-Ashe asked him to respond to a rumor about a big UFO event that was to occur in New Mexico sometime in August. Dames responded, "No, it will happen between NOW and August." Dames then began telling a bizarre tale of hibernating aliens. He claimed that remote viewers in his company, PSITECH, had remotely viewed a "platform coming in over our shoulders." Dames said he and his team were amazed to see this object and another land in northern New Mexico. According to Dames, the objects were transporting a race of dying aliens from a planet suffering a eco-holocaust. All planetary resources were had been wasted, and the remaining aliens were suffering violence against one another. Suddenly, their skies filled with UFOs, and the new aliens took the females and hybrid children and put them into some "goop," storing them not far from Earth. The original idea, Dames told the listening public, was to move the ET refugees to Earth--but at the time, Earthlings would have responded with violence. Now, Dames said, the aliens were conditioning humans to accept their presence. Dames compared this scenario to the television series "Alien Nation." Dames then told the audience that President Clinton (more remotely viewed data--this time at the White House!) per his PSITECH team, would make a reluctant announcement to the world. An entire article on the Dames claims ran in UFO Magazine, Volume 8, Number 3, 1993. He now denies having said any of the above. Dames' recent doom and gloom "viewings" presented on the Art Bell show--none of which Bell ever challenged--consisted of a planet wide eco-disaster, and this time on our planet. In 1996, he claimed we are about to experience "micro-bursts" from the jet stream, bursts that would run between 120 to 300 mph. Dames says his team viewed a type of bovine AIDS virus jumping from cow to baby milk. The most horrible remotely-viewed outcome? "Many, many dead babies!" Bells comment? "Wow!" Lots more bad news issued from Ed Dames. Broken atomic reactors, ion radiation, total crop failures, the human immune system breaking down, epidemics, pandemics, a total global eco- disaster. Instead of asking Dames to prove this terrifying scenario, Bell seemed to accept it all at face value, even though there are many listeners who regard Bell's Coast to Coast program as an information show. In a cynical vein, it could be speculated that Bell might be pushing his own agenda with his new book on what he calls "the Quickening," and so is sympathetic to the doom and gloom scenario. The Quickening is concerned with what Bell and many of his guests push on the air, doomsday scenario's and the like. After the Hale-Bopp "companion" object was announced, Dames added to his doomsday prophecy by claiming that he and the remote viewers from PSITECH had examined the Hale-Bopp comet and viewed a "container filled with plant-killing pathogens." According to Dames, the container has released these "pathogens" and the earth will (in its orbit) travel through this alleged substance. The pathogens, he predicts, will kill off most of the world's population by killing vegetation. On Bell's program, Dames announced that the devastation would begin in a year in Africa and then spread around the world. Bell's response? More oh-ing and ah-ing. Another doomsayer who's appeared on the Bell show was "former NASA scientist" Lee Shargel, who was heard on the show in early December, 1996. During this program with Shargel, he claimed to have been privy to radio communications sent from the "alien craft following Hale-Bopp" and also had photographs his "aliens" sent to earth. According to Shargel, the aliens were sending greetings to earth. And oh, by the way, you all are in the path of a lethal burst or pulse of energy that is going to destroy the planet. There was no checking on this fraudulent clown, either. Shargel just appeared on ABC's "This Week" along with Brad Steiger to talk about the suicide of the Heaven's Gate cult. Both Sam Donaldson and George Will must have had someone do their homework, because now Shargel doesn't claim to be from NASA. Now he's only as a science fiction writer. On Bell's show, he spoke about aliens he claims to have pictures of, Dolphinoids. Shargel has been making the rounds of UFO conferences, and his outlandish talks have managed to embarrass everyone who has heard him. On "This Week" he claimed he just writes science fiction, but he did meet Marshall Applewhite. On a recent segment of "Inside Edition, claimed that Applewhite passed on to him the stewardship of the remaining members of Heaven's Gate. (Maybe Art Bell will have a real barn-burner on "Coast to Coast" in a month or two!) Amidst all this noise, no one is calling for accountability. So these messengers of deception keep having their say in front of thousands, maybe millions. On February 19, 1997, Ed Dames appeared before the Los Angeles chapter of MUFON. During a Q&A period following his talk, I decided to confront Dames about his alleged remote viewing prowess ("100 percent total accuracy!"). If he and his viewers could miss the mark on an mass alien landing in New Mexico in 1993, then how about micro bursts from the jet stream, dead babies, or more recently, container in outer space harboring a planet killing pathogen? I decided that someone had to be accountable. This was a full month and a week prior to the news breaking about the Heavens Gate suicide, and the resultant HUGE black eye that legitimate UFO research has been subjected to. Dames handled it very neatly. He claimed he NEVER SAID A WORD ABOUT ALIENS, THAT HE SIMPLY STATED AN "INCIDENT" WOULD HAPPEN. Well, you could say an incident happened the very last time you poured corn flakes into your cereal bowl, not to mention a mass alien landing in New Mexico! To double check our information, I contacted Carolyn Duce-Ashe, who had written the original story for UFO Magazine in 1993. She verified that she and Debby Stark, both affiliated with MUFON at the time, were given an "exclusive per Dames," and this was the information he told them. Another researcher with MUFON, Rebecca D. Minshall, was told this information in a private meeting with Dames and ten others. In two-part article by Antonio Huneeus appearing in FATE Magazine in 1993, Dames was quoted discussing his information about "pregnant aliens and hybrid children at two sites in New Mexico." Now he denies it. The question must be, why? Perhaps, like many others in the UFO field, Dames and Bell are counting on the fact that most people have very short memories. It appears that now, Bell and others associated with this story are trying very hard to distance themselves from it. In a recent CNN broadcast of "Larry King Live," horror novelist and abductee Whitley Strieber told King how he and Bell "exposed the hoax" of the Hale Bopp companion object. In retrospect, with debunkers like James "The Amusing" Randi looking to score points by pointing the finger at people like Bell, in an attempt to lay the blame for Heaven's Gate at his feet, Bell, Strieber and others have taken some heat for the Heaven's Gate mass suicide. Anyone familiar with Bell and this story knows that Bell shoulders no blame for what these 39 addled believers did, but he should shoulder blame for being irresponsible with the information heard on his show--for not treating such sensational material with a more critical eye. If Art Bell's show is simply entertainment, like, say, the "X Files", then he should say so. If he promotes his show as "informational," then when frauds like Shargel and Dames appear, Bell he should pin them to the wall when they claim a planet killing spore is on the way in to destroy vegetation on earth, or that a lethal burst of energy is winding its way here. Did Bell expose the Courtney Brown hoaxed photo? Well, maybe--and then again, maybe not. What did happen? After Brown and Calabrese appeared on the "Coast to Coast" show, the mystery astronomer never did show up. Follow me closely now: After a month or more of audience excitement building, Bell was under a lot of fire to produce this mystery photo. Brown appeared on the show again, with no more new info, and Bell finally tired of all the calls about this "press conference of the century." So he laid it out to Brown, saying that if he didn't get some confirmation, he was going to put the photo up on the website. In mid-January Bell did just that--and within 24 hours, it was a proven hoax! Here is where it gets very interesting ( remember some of this is guesswork.) Dr. Olivera Hainaut from the University of Hawaii appeared on Bell's show on January 16, 1997, stating the photo in question was taken by Dr. David Tholen on the university's 2.4 meter telescope. It appeared that someone had doctored that photo, gave it to Brown who then passed it to Bell and Strieber. Brown finally admitted that his mystery astronomer had stopped communicating with him two weeks after Brown appeared on the Bell show talking about Hale-Bopp. Now it is known that Brown and Dames are not getting along (mega not), and Dames claims he is moving PSITECH to a "mystery" island. Dames is a big astronomy buff, loves astronomers, and travels to Hawaii all the time, according to former associates like David Morehouse. Some of the former military remote viewers who have looked at this information went. . . "HMMMmmmmmm!!" The bottom line is no one will ever know. Brown--regardless of what it did to his reputation and that of the Farsight Institute) refused to name names as to whomever set him up. And Bell "exposed it"--after he was exposed for once again being gullible and accepting all this at face value. No matter who is ultimately held responsible--the dead cultists themselves, celebrity figures, ufologists or the like-- the fact remains that the spoken word is extremely powerful. Media have a duty to their audience to treat sensational information in a responsible manner, questioning that which can be questioned and refusing to showcase known hoaxers and hucksters. Art Bell is heard by millions of people monthly, and if he is not willing to question the pap that some guests pour out on his program, then let him take some of the responsibility for the actions of misguided and perhaps brainwashed morons that would commit suicide because they thought an "alien spaceship" was hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet. Anything less than such an admission once again exposes him and others to the bottom line, that he's just selling fright and sensation as fact--and hurting all of us in the process. Addendum: As I was putting this article "to bed," preparing to be proofread prior to placing it on the web, I received a telephone call from my very good friend and former co-host of" UFOs Tonite!", Dwight Schultz. He asked me if I had listened to Art Bell's program the night of April 9-10, 1997. I told Dwight I hadn't caught that show." Dwight was aware that over the last several days I had been on the phone with the section directors for the local MUFON chapter, and the Inland Empire MUFON chapter, Don Waldrop and Cinde Costello respectively. I called because both MUFON chapters had listed feature speakers for local meetings, and both chapters had scheduled Guy Kirkwood, a "former Air Force F-86 Sabre Jet pilot," who in 1954 had been part of a "secret U.S. Air Force squadron tasked with chasing UFOs and photographing them." Kirkwood claims he had been stationed at an Air Force base in of Utah back in the mid-1950s. Dwight informed me that while on Bell's show April 9-10, he was claiming that he had been asked by Dr. Steven Greer, director of CSETI (Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence), to participate in Greer and CSETI's attempt to get Congress to hold hearings on the reality of the UFO phenomenon. Greer had been telling the UFO research community that he had a number of former military personnel ready, willing, and able to testify to Congress on the reality of UFOs, providing they had Congressional immunity. The problem with this particular "witness," Kirkwood, was that he was "pulling out" because he had received a "threat"--that if he testified, he would "be burned out," just like another Bell guest, "David John Oats." This man called Oats, who had appeared on the Bell show in the past, was involved with "reverse speech," and had worked in the UFO research field. Kirkwood claims to have daytime photos from when he was a "commercial airline pilot" and from his Air Force photo recon days that "clearly show" discs about 35 feet in diameter. Once again, Bell blew it. Kirkwood is a complete and total fraud. In 1992, UFO Magazine, in Vol. 7, No. 3, I wrote a detailed and in-depth expose on Guy Kirkwood. I detailed his other aliases "Mel Noel," and "Noall Bryce Cornwell." On UFO Magazine's website; www.ufomagazine.com you can read the complete expose we did on Kirkwood and of course other frauds in the field. Kirkwood was NEVER in the military, never an airline pilot. He was, in effect, a very small-time con artist having fun with the research community. He made it (with photo) into Timothy Good's book ABOVE TOP SECRET: The Worldwide UFO Coverup, and in the '60s was a featured speaker at UFO conferences all over the United States. So why are we so outraged, and why should Bell be ashamed? Bell claims he just puts the guests out there and leaves it up to the audience to make up their minds. Well, in this case, Whitley Strieber was once again on the air with Bell, and Bell went on and on about "the terrible abuses of a secret government" that would threaten to burn out an ex-Air Force pilot like Kirkwood who just came on to expose the truth! It is a good thing that Kirkwood did pull out. Can one imagine the embarrassment Greer and Bell would suffer if Kirkwood were to be exposed in front of Congress? As a matter of fact, at one point the Air Force contemplated filing felony charges on Kirkwood for passing himself off as an Air Force officer. We at UFO Magazine consider this phenomenon to be potentially one of the most important subjects to ever confront humanity. Clowns like Kirkwood simply muddy the waters and turn all of us into objects of derision. Art Bell could make an important and significant impact for truth in this field, but it appears he is more concerned with selling his new book than searching for the truth. If that is the case, fine--after all this is America. But to repeat myself, Bell should describe his show as simply entertainment and not information. If he will not do any research on his guests beforehand and not challenge them on sensational and ludicrous claims, then Bell has no beef when he is charged with culpability in acts such as those of Heaven's Gate. P.S. One last note. After speaking with representatives of both Los Angeles MUFON and the Inland Empire MUFON, I was told they were still going to have Guy Kirkwood speak, in spite of the fact that they are now aware that Kirkwood is a total and complete fraud. Remember, MUFON bills itself as a scientific and investigative body, yet armed with the facts that this man is NOT who he says he is, they are going to present him anyway. And people within this field wonder why no one takes us seriously. Science? Nope, P.T. Barnum. Don Ecker Director Research UFO Magazine Sunland, Ca.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 'Unconventional Flying Objects' [was Nellis Video?] From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:32:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:12:13 -0400 Subject: 'Unconventional Flying Objects' [was Nellis Video?] > Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:52:49 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? > > In 1994, at an Ozark UFO conference in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, Mr. > > Wingfield, Bob Reid and others gathered at the "Lone Star Bar" and reviewed > > a tape just made by Ed Walters of a UFO over a beach in Gulf Breeze. The > > object appeared to travel slowly, hover then suddenly ...disappear. We ran > > the tape over and over in slow motion and discovered that the object did not > > just "disappear" it actually took off so fast that the eye could not track > > it. > > <snip> > > >Fascinating stuff, I hope that some of you guys are analysing these, and > > >the rest of you enjoying them. > > Us "Gals" are analysing them too! It IS fascinating! > > Thanks, John! > > A. Hebert > Amy, > You may find Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects - A Scientific > Analysis" Section II Performance, section C on Acceleration and section > D on the Optical Effects of High Acceleration helpful in understanding > that tape. He gives a reasoned scientific analysis of the behavior you > saw on the tape. It's not that these devices are flying so fast, it's > that they are accelerating at higher speeds than most conventional > objects. Not many people have seen missles capable of high acceleration > launches, e.g. terminal phase anti-ballistic missles or rail gun > projectiles, they show the same accelleration effect. Its just that one > doesn't expect an aerial craft to be capable of doing the same. > Unconventional Flying Objects - A Scientific Analysis. > Paul R. Hill > $15.95 > Hampton Roads Publishing Company, Inc. > 800 766 8009 > 804 296 2772 > 804 296 5096 fax > Gary Alevy I am encouraged when I see members of this list reading the likes of the late Paul R. Hill's book of UFO research entitled Unconventional Flying Objects. And yes indeed some of the answers to the nature and the effects of what Hill referred to as Force Field Propulsion may be exactly what is witnessed when these objects are solid one second and vanish like yesterdays paycheck in the next. He explains quite reasonably I thought how a body inside the craft would not experience the same G forces as one would expect at such high rates of acceleration. Don't let the math scare you off. Paul R.Hill was a scientist with NASA for many years. I have had witnesses in at least two cases relate to me their experience of a sensation of being gently pushed back in the first when getting close on foot to a UFO and a vehicle slowing as if moving through stiff jello when suddenly coming upon a UFO in the middle of a deserted highway. In the second case there was no attempt to brake the vehicle which was moving at 50 mph (82 kms for you youngens) but it slowed to a halt all the same. The driver and the passenger had the sensation of being pushed back into their seats. Anyway I highly recommend the read. I think I mentioned this in another submission. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Nellis Video? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:10:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:10:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:08:41 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) wrote >That's precisely what this sucker is doing! I have made a very careful >frame by frame study of this Brazilian UFO. In certain sequences the >object can be seen streaking away within a frame or two of video! In other >sections of the recording the UFO departs so quickly that, one frame it's >there, and then it's gone in the next! The Nellis UFO's seemingly erratic movements, however, could easily be due to imperfect camera tracking. In the beginning of the video, the camera is zoomed out and the object is seen to be moving slowly and smoothly over two radar domes on a ridge. Beyond that point, there is no fixed reference point to judge whether the object is erratically flitting about or not. Also the camera operator begins to zoom in on the object. At the end, the camera is zoomed in about eight times from the beginning. Any relative movement within the camera frame due to either the camera or the object is likewise going to be exaggerated by the zooming. The object also continues to speed up throughout the video, and the radar data shows it making several speed spurts. You can hear the camera tracking gears grinding on the video trying to follow the thing. That's why I think that a lot the apparent jumping around could be due to camera motion, and not the UFO. I am enclosing a graph of the net and vertical velocities that I made from the radar data. The object exhibits the following behavior. It cruises around in a restricted speed range for a while. Then it makes a brief acceleration on the order of 3 g's (nothing exceptional), approximately doubling in speed, then drops back a bit to a new speed range. There are four distinct speed ranges, and two very clear speed bursts where it doubles its velocities. You'll also notice a lot of "jitter" in the velocities. With the data at hand, I have to way of knowing how much of this is actually short-term velocity variation by the object, radar tracking error, or the limitations in my being able to determine end points in the radar data from my video copies many generations removed from the original. >The funny thing is that it appears to leave a smokey 'ghost image' of >itself when it does this. Kind of like the roadrunner, when he takes >off so fast from a dead standstill that all that's left is his shape >inside a puff of smoke! One other feature that I'd like to draw >everyones attention to is, notice how the air surrounding the UFO is >affected. It must be constantly ionizing the air in the space that it >occupies. Most likely. I can imagine the lingering ghost image could be due to two things. One is the ionized air continuing to glow even after the object has left. You can also see this sort of thing on large shooting stars that leave a noticable glowing ionization trail. The trail can linger for a number of seconds after the meteor has passed. A short-term ghost image might also be the result of a video camera artifact. Since they were filming in the dark, they may have increased the time constant or frame summation time to make the camera more sensitive. Our eyes do the same thing. That's why, e.g., fireworks seem to leave glowing trails in the dark. So if the object zips away, the camera might record a brief ghost image of the object still being there, which rapidly fades out. > Within certain frames the air surrounding it glows. I noticed that too. In the two images of the Sao Paulo Brazil UFO that I posted the other day (borrowed from your Web page BTW -- I hope you don't mind), I magnified the images, applied a smoothing function from Paint Shop Pro to get rid of some of the video noise and pixelization, and then increased the blue level in the picture. The glowing is mostly in blue light. That would be consistent with atmospheric nitrogen being ionized, though hydrogen and xenon will also glow in the blue end of the spectrum when ionized. Another thing I noticed is there is a darkened region around the craft between the craft and the surrounding glow. Either this region isn't ionized, or is emitting light at a low level that the camera can't pick up, or is emitting light in the ultraviolet or infrared, invisible to the camera. It did remind me however, of the pulsating surround captured around the Nellis UFO. It would be interesting to analyze the Brazil UFO for a similar pulsating surround. Perhaps John could comment on whether one is readily visible? One other thing people might try, when the object is rotating, it is possible to get a pseudo-stereoscopic 3-D image of the object by viewing one image with one eye and a rotated image at some other time with the other. If you go back to the image I posted the other day, I have two side by side images of the Brazil UFO taken at different vantage points at different times. If you fuse those two images, you'll get a 3-D image of the UFO.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Experts? From: brian <BMA97001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:24:35 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:26:02 -0400 Subject: Experts? I would just like to say that I am confused by some of you bickering UFO "experts". You know who you are. You are the ones who claim to be the "professors" of ufology while others that disagree with any aspect of your viewpoints (dare I use the term skeptic) are blasphemous. You are the ones who wear your self-proclaimed "expert-status" as a badge on your shirts at all the conventions and speak in that Leonard Nimoy-Budd Hopkins voice. You are also the ones that spend a measurable amount of your lives arguing amongst yourselves over the minor aspects of cases (The Meier case). Doesn't ufology deserve better? After all, is the goal of this science to obtain relevent data and conduct solid research or to argue amongst each other to make claim over who is the guru of ufology? Shouldn't we all work together to end the infighting and pointless chaos and establish ufology as a respected science in academia? Does this science need selfish "experts" or do we need a wide range of knowledgeable people willing to contribute to the common good of our science? These are issues that need to be addressed from this point-of-view. Brian Annino
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:45:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:23:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:42 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: serious space scientists seek ET > The search for intelligent life beyond Mother Earth is at the heart of > NASA's Origins programme, which is expected to spend more than $1 billion > over the next five years trying to answer such cosmic questions as when and > how the universe began, when it might end and whether life exists ``out > there.'' I thought NASA pulled the plug on the SETI program some time ago. Am I wrong on this. I often wondered why this happened until it ocurred to me that perhaps the Government of the United States decided not to waste money on a project to which they already knew the answer but I still have not firmly convinced myself that that was the reason. Fun to play with though dispite being thought of as a "conspiricy nut". Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Arizona sightings From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:27:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings Hi Errol, hi All, Well, I just got through reviewing a copy of the Arizona sightings videotape that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a "must see" for all who believe that UFO's, unmarked black helicopters, and media cover-ups are just the product of overworked imaginations or attention seekers! Clear daylight footage of the UFO's and the black helicopters bring a forceful reality to a subject that many entertain on a purely intellectual level. There is no denying that something MAJOR and significant is unfolding in the skies over Phoenix. It's so sad that an organization does not exist with the resources, equipment, and experts required to document and investigate these historic doings. With the frequency of flyovers and daylight sightings over Arizona recently you'd think that there'd be much more media interest and public awareness, but neither of these is the case. (We) can't let this one go by the boards! I will dedicate webspace in an attempt to draw attention to these important sightings. and I hope that others will do what they can to draw public attention to an important and potentially historic event. Tommy King and Bill Hamilton are to be commended for their many hours of work and effort to get the truth out and into the hands of the general public. In my eyes they are heros and patriots! Thank you both. People,...you should make it your business to learn more about what's going on in our own western states, I will *gurantee* that it'll change the way you view the world! John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:40:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Jan I would like to give a possible answer to the question > below as to why the CIA did not distroy the files. Or any > other agency for that matter. > >They hired Acuff's {mis]management firm to run > >administrative matters. In the end a former CIA employee > >ended up running NICAP from his home. Once CIA, I guess, > >always CIA. However, the files were not destroyed or > >thrown away. CUFOS with the help of several "angels" > >(mostly John Timmerman) came up with the money to buy the > >files. Now if the CIA wanted to destroy NICAP why did they > >not destroy the files. Why didn't the CIA destroy CUFOS? > Jan have you considered the possibility that UFO organizations > if properly managed would not be a threat to a coverup but could > be a intelligence asset. No, Ed, I haven't. I considered a number of things, but I like some kind of evidence. If the "take over" people wanted to, as you say, develop a good investigative/observation operation, then the thing to do was to pour money into a captive NICAP and keep their outstanding investigative network going. As I said, Idabel Epperson would have probably pointed to Stewart Nixon as an intelligence operative. When he took over, one of the first things he did was write nasty letters to some of the scientists in Epperson's Los Angeles NICAP Subcommitee (LANS). Nixon's big interest was photographs and he apparently disagreed with some of the LANS people on their Rex Heflin investigation. > As long as the organizations did not involve themselves in > political activity and were steered toward solving the UFO issue > as a scientific problem they could be quite helpful as > intelligence gathering assets. For instance the civilians could > be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity > that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance > methods. > Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to > gather raw data. One of the problems with the intelligence > failures in Russia was that ground based human intelligence > was very poor and the Russians focused very strongly on that > area keeping it that way. > I think it reasonable to assume that if we are dealing with > sophisticated ET craft that they would be able to easly deal > with our electronic surveillance technologies. You answer > this question yourself per your discussion on how the N. Vet > low tech approach fuctioned quite well against a superior U.S. > Technology. > Well maybe we are in the same position at North Vietnam this > time around. > Consider that. Very interesting idea. But I can not see it supported by the evidence so far. As I say some of the people who stayed on after Keyhoe and Lore were ejected, like Nixon, Accuf, and Diana Sinkler, who was definitely the most effective person left from the old NICAP staff, should be interviewed. > The best, Ed Komarek Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:29:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:46:58 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' I thought readers of the UFOupdates list might find interesting the following use of the term "flap" that I located in literature regarding the intelligence community. (An aside to Jan Aldrich may be appropriate here - watching CSPAN the other night I found two former Defense Department Secretaries, a former Director of Central Intelligence and the Chairman of the House Committee on Intelligence all used the community word and seemed to consider themselves a part of it. So I'm in good company). Ernest Volkman is an "acknowledged authority on espionage and intelligence. Formerly a prize-winning investigative reporter for Newsday and executive editor of Espionage magazine". He has made media appearances on Nightline, CNN, and the Today show as an expert in the field. I found Volkman's exposition on the term "flap" in his book Espionage (pp.177) in a discussion of terminology used in a particular branch of the intelligence community (the Central Intelligence Agency, CIA). "As with all other areas of human endeavor, espionage is subject to Murphy's Law, which dictates that what can go wrong, will. CIA officials like to call it "flap", the distressing tendency of certain major intelligence operations to go badly awry, too often with the kind of spectacular explosion that tends to attract a lot of public (and unwelcome) attention." Interesting? Maybe someone reading UFOupdates will know how, when and by whom this term was introduced into ufology. Significance - possibly none. However, it is worthwhile noting that in 1956 Edward J. Ruppelt (Former Head of the United States Air Force Project Blue Book) mentioned in his book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects" an intelligence insiders phrase - "puzzle palace" (see pp. 137). It would not be until almost 25 years later that it would become known that this phrase was the insiders nickname for the National Security Agency (NSA), it was also known as No Such Agency. For those who would like to convince others that the intelligence community was not involved in the investigation of UFOs, lets look as far back as the early 1950s and note the following. Speaking about his work in 1952 Ruppelt says (pp 137)(Chapter Ten - Project Blue Book and the Big Build-Up): "All of these inquiries from the press were adding to Blue Book's work load and to my problems. Normally a unit such as ATIC has its own public relations officer, but we had none so I was it. I was being quoted quite freely in the press and was repeatedly being snarled at by someone in the Pentagon. It was almost a daily occurence to have people from the 'puzzle palace' call and indignantly ask, 'Why did you tell them that?' They usually referred to some bit of information that somebody didn't think should have been released. I finally gave up and complained to Colonel Dunn. I suggested that any contacts with the press be made through the Office of Public Information in the Pentagon. These people were trained and paid to do this job; I wasn't. Colonel Dunn heartily agreed because every time I got chewed out he at least got a dirty look." There it is folks, Ruppelt, the head of the Air Force's Blue Book was being told almost daily what to say or not say by the people in the "puzzle palace" - the NSA. Ernest Volkman Espionage - The Greatest Spy Operations of the Twentieth Century published 1995, $24.95 ISBN 0-471-01492-3 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. Professional, Reference and Trade Group 605 Third Avenue New York, NY 10158-0012 The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects Edward J. Ruppelt first published 1956, out of print but available in some used book stores. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Apr 97 19:03:18 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:35:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Date:08 Apr 97 15:55:00 CET >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Billy Meier - Another 'Guru's' Finale >Normally, responses to messages from Mr. >Hesemann from Duesseldorf, >Germany, don't leave here because most >of us here in Germany related >to UFO-research have been fed up for a long time >with his extensive, fruitless, self-opinionated and >often embarrassing way of arguing >against those who have a different view of things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It is difficult to reply to a message on this level of ad-hominem attacks, so lets analyse the latest Koch/Kyborg revelation for the facts. Before, let me inform the august reader that indeed "the two" from Berlin do not represent the highest level of German UFO research, thanks God, and were already thrown out of the German (Central European) Section of MUFON because of their unprofessional research and rather strange behaviour. They were also responsible for the spread of the Lesotho hoax on the Internet, the alleged UFO crash, based only on obviously dubious documents. In the meantime, a field investigation I performed on site, in the Kingdom of Lesotho, proved this case to be fraudulent, since a/ the persons mentioned in the docs are non-existent; b/ the titles on the alleged letterheads are bogus. Just an example: One letterhead is that of the "Royal Government of Lesotho - Department of Defense", shows the flag of the country and is signed by a "Abe Lochwela". First of all they don't call their gov t "Royal Government" but just "Government", second they have a "Ministry of Defense" instead of a "Dept. of Defense", third they use their arms and not the flag on a letterhead and fourth "Abe Lochwela" is not even a Sotho name. I personally believe that someone should first investigate a case before publishing it, and especially not as "the most important crash/retrieval event of the 90ies". So lets see what they are writing about myself: >The most experienced UFO and Crop Circle >Researcher of Germany Thanks for the compliment. Unfortunately it's even not too far away from reality <G>. I investigate the crop circle phenomenon since 1990, and I documented cases in 10 countries. My book "The Cosmic Connection" was published in 12 countries with an overall circulation of 85.000 copies. In my UFO research I travelled more than 300.000 miles in the last 4 years for on-site-investigations in 38 countries. I started UFO research in 1978. I wrote 10 books about the subject, which were published in 14 countries. Maybe Koch&Kyborg envy me for the possibility to do this job, but I'm in the happy position to be the editor of a Magazine and a bestselling author, so I am able to finance my work. I lecture in 22 countries of all 5 continents, at 32 universities and at the United Nations. I worked together with a lot of leading researchers, including Prof. John Mack, Jaime Maussan, Colin Andrews, Prof. Jack Kasher plus many others. So at least I'm not completely incompetent, I'm afraid. >Our book entitled "Die Antwort des Orion" (transl.: "The >Answer Of >Orion") was published in 1996. Of course, I apologize, 1998 was a typo. >We do not "claim" (if you can read German you can easily >verify this) >that we have "communicated with extraterrestrials from Orion". The subtitle of the book is "Evidence for a cosmic encounter". Since even the title indicates that "Orion answers", with whom, may I ask, did you claim you communicated? On its dust jacket the book is described as "The direct dialogue with a non-human intelligence. Through the now deciphered symbols in British cornfields mankind received information about a solar system, close to the sun, in which life could exist." > how we left our armchairs (different from many others >who still claim to be "in the know") and went out into the fields >in England, 1400 km away from Germany, At least I have to admit they left their armchairs. I even met them every summer in England, when I, for weeks, investigated the phenomenon by myself. But - England, of course, is not 1400 km away from Germany,. but not even 400 km, border to border. Please, K&K, not another exagerration!! >The word "fake", used by the one mentioned above, is a very >negative word, we think it is the same meaning both in >English and in German. Please, guys, if you believe there is a real crop circle phenomenon, EVERY manmade pictogram is a "fake" and not "the real phenomenon". >The pictogram we created in 1991, July 13th, in fact was >answered with the pictograms of July 16th, Preshute >Downs and Barbury Castle. ROFLMAO!, as you say in cyberspace. Indeed this clearly shows the selfish, egocentric approach of Koch & Kyborg: They fake a crop formation and everything which appears afterwards is "an answer from Orion". They don't even think about the possibility that maybe the real circlemakers just ignored their childish experiments and did something by their own? If they would reply, why not on the same or the neighboring field, but in Barbury Castle, 30 minutes away?? So K&K claim their rights on the "Mother of all pictograms". Please, give me a break! > We reported that with help of our experiments in a remote >field near >Alton Barnes we communicated with this Intelligence. >We never claimed to have communicated with >"extraterrestrials from Orion". And why do you call your book "the answer of Orion"? >We have been members of the legendary "Beckhampton >Group" and we published articles in the CERALOGIST >and CCCS CCIRCULAR about our >research at times when the "most famous crop circle >researcher of >Germany" was unknown around Avebury. I know, K&K, you are a living legend by yourself (or should I say: a living joke), but as far as i know you visited the crop circles the first time in 1990, THE VERY SAME YEAR I ARRIVED ON THE SCENE. I never called myself "the most famous...", so what? You put a quote in my mouth I never said. Or did Orion tell you? > the one who is guiding people around in the area of >obviously (and known) hoaxed crop circles in England >since some years for more than 2,000.00 DM each person Yes, it's true, I offer people who want to see the phenomenon directly, without searching for days before they find their first circle and who might have problems with the language, driving on the left or whatsoever, to join a guided tour to the circles. What's bad about it? Yes, I show them BOTH, hoaxed circles (like Koch & Kyborgs latest creations) and the real thing, so they see the difference. We use scientific instruments like Geiger Counters or Magnetometers to determine what is real and what isn't. Since England is not very cheap (a night in a country hotel costs about 50 Pounds = DM 130,-- = $ 80,--) and we stay for 7 nights (DM 910,--) plus the flight (DM 630,--) plus a bus and driver for the whole week we have to charge about DM 2000,--, so a professional tour manager (for the organisational things) and myself can, at least, do the tour for free. (normally 10-20 people join it). I don't know what is bad about it, it's not even $ 1200,--for a whole week including flight & hotel! > who said in German TV (we have it on tape) that he thinks > to be an incarnated extraterrestrial > who is here to bring information to people. How cheap, K&K. I didn't say anything like that "in German TV", since it's rubbish. Of course I'm not an alien, although I feel quite alienated when I have to deal with characters like K&K. Is there intelligent life on Earth? I sometimes wonder. SOME ufologists seem to look for intelligence OUT THERE, just because they don't find it in themselves. What happened actually was: I gave a lecture in Berlin. Someone asked me about "incarnated aliens" and I warned them that some of them are crazy, others are cult leaders etc. Then someone else asked me how I started with ufology. I smiled, said: "Alright guys, now, of course, I could claim: I am an extraterrestrial and came to Earth to bring you the truth. But the truth is much more simple: When I was a little boy I found a book by Erich von Daniken on the bookshelfs of my parents, I read it, I was fascinated..." A German UFO debunker, who recorded my lecture on audiotape, CUT the sequence "I am an extraterrestrial..." out and sold the AUDIOtape to German TV which, in an "exposure" of German ufology, broadcasted the TAPE. I immediately informed my readers & everyone about this forgery. Still K&K, who obviously don't read but just watch TV, claim this b.s. - what a shame! >May he find his way through this incarnation and >someday reaches the next evolutionary dimension >where it will be easier cope with a >universal truth I hope I will never join "Ky & Ko, The Berlin Two" on their "Evolutionary Level Above Human", neither on Hale Bopp nor on Orion... Greetings, Michael Hesemann, Dusseldorf/Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 10:17:08 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:31:22 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: First Use of the term 'flap' Sent: 9/4/97 5:53 pm To: UFO UpDates - Toronto, updates@globalserve.net Immediately after sending my previous post ... I took down Jerome Clark's UFO encyclopedia, vol 3, 'High Strangeness', to find he has an entry on 'Waves' in which he says... "UFO writers of the 1950s termed this increase a 'flap'." But which writers... ? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." C.Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:59:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:27:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 > > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > snip < > If the "take over" people wanted to, as you say, develop a > good investigative/observation operation, then the thing to > do was to pour money into a captive NICAP and keep their > outstanding investigative network going. You are sanatizing the history a bit here Jan by omitting a discussion of the significant roles played by Admiral Hillenkoetter and Maj. Donald Keyhoe about this time. A part of this drama is played out in Donald Keyhoe's Aliens From Space (1973) chapter 5 The CIA Takes Over and Chapter 6 Invisible Control. Lets not forget to mention as you do that Hillenkoettner was not just a naval military officer, he was the Pacific Commander of Intelligence in WWII and the FIRST Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, CIA. Keyhoe had long been pushing the Air Force to tell the public what he believed it knew and Keyhoe was trying to force Congressional hearing on the UFO. Keyhoe after many years of trying fruitlessly to headbutt the Air Force into coming clean with the public was realizing that the Air Force was not really in charge at all. He came to a public realization that the CIA was and probably had been all along. On the eve of succeeding in obtaining the Congressional hearing he sought all along his good buddy and supporter Hillenkoettner who was to be his "spearhead" for the Congressional show resigned and with it died the Congressional hearing. Keyhoe had crossed the line. Do you think that Hillenkoettner the DCI and first director of the CIA was going under oath testify. Keyhoe was either made or asked to fall on his own sword. In his book all that Keyhoe has to say about his friend Hillenkoettner's resignation is the "cause of the admiral's actions was still a mystery". I give Keyhoe credit for much more insight than that, look at this life story. The takeover of NICAP consisted of removing these players from the scene so that NICAP would not push for Congressional investigations which might get out of hand; and so that the CIAs role would remain unexamined for many, many years. If it hadn't been for the FOIA and the CAUS lawsuit we still might not know about the CIAs role. The open source collection capability of NICAP was left in place, why not, Keyhoe had created a pretty good public intelligence organization and they paid their own dues and it didn't have to come out of a CIA budget line. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Nellis Video? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:02:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:22:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:08:41 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? >On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) wrote >>That's precisely what this sucker is doing! I have made a very careful >>frame by frame study of this Brazilian UFO. In certain sequences the >>object can be seen streaking away within a frame or two of video! In other >>sections of the recording the UFO departs so quickly that, one frame it's >>there, and then it's gone in the next! Dave Rudiak wrote, >The Nellis UFO's seemingly erratic movements, however, could easily be >due to imperfect camera tracking. [snip] >That's why I think that a lot the apparent jumping >around could be due to camera motion, and not the UFO. Probably so in the case of the Nellis recording because of the automated tracking equipment. But the Brazilian UFO appears to have been videotaped from a camera that maintains a fixed position relative to the movements of the UFO and is probably mounted on a tripod (due to lack of normally occuring jitter seen in all hand held shots) I could be way off base Dave, I wasn't there. I'm going on the overall 'look' of the videoclip. >I am enclosing a graph of the net and vertical velocities >that I made from the radar data. One detail that I found most intrigueing about your analysis is how the UFO (although going thru a series of complicated manouvers and varying accelerations) manages to,... *maintain a constant distance from the radar source!!!?* This is significant. The clear implication here is an 'awareness/intelligence' on the part of the object or its' occupant(s)/pilot of the Nellis radar beacon! It implies intelligence, period! In order for that object to maintain a constant distance from the beacon, it (had to be) "intelligently" guided. Whether that 'guidance' was mechanical or biological is pure speculation, and in terms of this discussion irrelevant for now. I did want to draw attention to this fact nonetheless. So much talk of UFO's and never a word or thought as to 'who' builds them or 'who' flys/pilots them! Xenophobia! <G> I have to confess that as an abductee, I do have an 'ulterior motive' for presenting evidence for the reality of UFO's. Once people accept *that fact* it's a hop, skip, and a jump for them to seriously entertain the possibilty of the abductions so many of us have reported. Maybe then, we'll get a serious investigation. It's what I work toward. I'm sincerely trying to be a part of the solution, not create more problems or to further muddy the already murky waters. >So if the object zips away, the camera might record a brief >ghost image of the object still being there, which rapidly >fades out. The 'retina' does that too. Hard to tell whether it's an internal or external phenomena! Bob Shell may have some input here as cameras and lenses are his 'long suit!' Bob? >> Within certain frames the air surrounding it glows. >I noticed that too. In the two images of the Sao Paulo Brazil >UFO that I posted the other day (borrowed from your Web page BTW >-- I hope you don't mind), "Uncle Miltie" (Milton Berle) used to get all his best material that way! <G> (For you younger folks, Milton Berle was a comedian that used to brag about having stolen all of his best routines from other comedians!) >Another thing I noticed is there is a darkened region around >the craft between the craft and the surrounding glow. Either >this region isn't ionized, or is emitting light at a low level >that the camera can't pick up, or is emitting light in the >ultraviolet or infrared, invisible to the camera. It did remind >me however, of the pulsating surround captured around the >Nellis UFO. It would be interesting to analyze the Brazil >UFO for a similar pulsating surround. Perhaps John could comment >on whether one is readily visible? Yes! I'm so surprised to hear you bring that up, I thought that maybe it was some trick my eyes or the camera was playing with areas of high contrast. Yes Dave, the Brazil object shows this darkened region even though it was shot at night. A (sometimes) clear lane of darkness seperates the craft from the 'glow'. I'm an amateur astronomer and my eyes are used to seeing (and looking for) subtle details /shades of light and dark. I thought it was just some *insignificant* subtlety of lights and shadows that I had observed about the UFO and I just put the whole thing on a back burner. Here you are asking me about it! <G> Could the (dark) area be one of 'absorbtion' due to an intense enough magnetic field? Anything powerful enough to absorb light would also probably suck the trees out of the ground by their roots I would imagine! How 'possible' is it that 'absorbtion' could be the cause? >A lot more image analysis could be done along these lines, which >might enable us to reconstruct a 3-D model of these objects. But >it's beyond the capabilities of my equipment. Perhaps somebody has >some ideas or knows who might be able to do this work. Beyond mine too Dave. "Getting someone" who can 'do it' is the reason I started this thread to begin with! Hopefully someone will respond. Once again Dave, an excellent and most informative post. Kudo's for all the hard work and hours that I know you put in on your analysis of the Nellis thingamabob! Thanx for sharing.<G> Take care until next, John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Shramek's Pranking Past From: gfrost@sas.upenn.edu (Gregory Frost) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:40:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:05:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Shramek's Pranking Past >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 13:55:07 -0400 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Shramek's Pranking Past >>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:51 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@enigma.globalserve.net> >>From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk >>Subject: Chuck Shramek's pranking past? >This appears in issue 117 of UK science fiction writer Dave >Langford's fanzine, "Ansible" (available on the web at >http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible [snip] >>CULT CONNECTIONS. _Gregory Frost_ writes: `The recent mass >>suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California, has induced me (at the >>urging of Michael Swanwick) to write you regarding my odd >>connection to an event that seems to have prompted that act -- >>namely the discovery of the "companion" purportedly following the >>comet Hale-Bopp on its flyby. _[See A116.]_ As is well-known by >>now, the cult was convinced (as are many UFO zipheads who weigh >>in on the internet) that the companion, discovered by amateur >>astronomer Charles Shramek, is an alien mothership, either >>preparing a mass invasion in the style of _Independence Day_, or >>a nice ship waiting to sweep up the souls of the 39 cult members. [snip] >You know Greg, your comments on Shramek are truly hilarious and >astute. It's hard to believe how gullible some of the schmucks in >this world can be, especially the adherents of the Church of ETs. >Shramek's stunts certainly do serve to point this out. There >truly is a sucker born every minute. >I, myself, used to stick my guitar amp in the window of my house >in Aiken, South Carolina and crank up my Mini-Moog synthesizer, >blasting "outer space" like noises throughout the neighborhood, >prompting worried neighbors to come outside with flashlights >blazing, searching for the source of the "alien" noises. And yes, >before long, the legend of the "secret saucer invasion" was born. >That doesn't negate for a moment, however, the acute reality of >my close encounter with a fully luminous object the size of a >mobile home on a dark, deserted road just west of the Y-12 >nuclear installation in my home town of Oak Ridge, TN. A city >which has a long history of UFO surveillance dating back to the >1950s, much like Aiken and its Savannah River Nuclear Plant. >You see Greg, these sightings do actually occur, your rapier wit >notwithstanding. [snip] > Jerry Washington Jerry, No problem with your CE. I'm not saying there isn't something, just that making things up desperately out of nothing--like the response to your amplified guitar gag--guarantees that whatever truth lies at the core will be ignored because of all the nonsense it's wrapped in. I also had one experience of a UFO nature while in college in Iowa City. I was walking with a girlfriend at 3:00 am in February (not the warmest month) and happened to stop and look at the stars in a park there. I saw what I took to be a satellite, and just stood mutely watching for awhile with her. The satellite suddenly made three 90 degree turns a la 3 sides of a box, and then stopped dead. A few moments later it split into four satellites that moved off in a precise cross shape. I figured I was hallucinating, until I asked the lady and she had been observing the same thing, equally spellbound. I won't even hazard a guess as to what I saw, but "natural" it was not. GF out Search for other documents from or mentioning: gfrost | skyeking |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Arizona sightings From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:46:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:47:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Arizona sightings > Well, I just got through reviewing a > copy of the Arizona sightings videotape > that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a > "must see" for all who believe that > UFO's, unmarked black helicopters, and > media cover-ups are just the product > of overworked imaginations or attention > seekers! > Clear daylight footage of the UFO's > and the black helicopters bring a > forceful reality to a subject that > many entertain on a purely intellectual > level. There is no denying that > something MAJOR and significant is > unfolding in the skies over Phoenix. > John Velez John, How would we get a copy? I'd really like to see this video - feel like making a few copies and selling them, for costs of reproduction & shipping plus something for your time? If you're willing, put me on your list for distribution & tell me how much!! THANKS Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:20:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:52:01 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] Rebecca wrote: > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > [Curtis Peebles] > Greg, IMO, what you describe as a skeptical view, is in actuality a > nonbeliever view. She was responding to this screed from me: >>In my experience, the skeptical view is based on circular reasoning. >>Since they KNOW there aren't any real UFOs, obviously flaps must be >>caused by the media. And then the belief that flaps are caused by >>the media becomes yet another argument for the non-existence of >>UFOS...which proves once more that flaps are caused sociologically.... And she adds: > I consider myself skeptical, yet I do not KNOW anything for sure -- >whether it be sociological, real, hoax, or whatever. Which means you're a TRUE skeptic, Rebecca, and in the best and most honorable use of the term, as established in the history of philosophy. That was exactly what "skeptic" historically meant. The current crop of CSICOPers and the like are skeptical only about the paranormal. They never question what they themselves think, which means they're vulgar thinkers, and really not skeptics at all. I'd disagree with only one thing you said. I wouldn't call them "non-believers." To me, they're believers -- they have a deep-rooted faith (and maybe an ever deeper need for faith) that nothing paranormal is real. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:31:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:53:34 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] Mac Tonnies agrees with me that Curtis Peebles' skeptical history of UFOs has some problems: > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 9:55:17 -0500 (CDT) > From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re. First Use of the term "flap" [Curtis Peebles] > You're very much correct, and I regret using the word "impeccable." > Chronologically, Peeble's text is on the money, but it is indeed > rife with oversimplified reasoning and a few glaring ommisions. > To his credit, he states his position early in the book. In the end, what this emphasizes is the lack of any reliable published history of UFOs (or at least any that's still in print). There's not even an adequate, in-depth general introduction to the subject, of the kind that would interest general readers. Strangely, publishers and agents I've talked to don't think one would sell. The criteria for UFO books -- at least when you talk to people with high visibility in the publishing world -- is that they contain "revelations." (Which I imagine the publishers don't believe, but think will sell.) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 09:40:33 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:14:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 08 Apr 97 19:50:03 EDT >Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >"Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, >and I am not sure about the Universe." >Albert Einstein [...] Is this a true quote??? And if so, from whence did/does it come? Also, there is: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Does anyone here know if either of these phrases were ever coined and/or written by Albert Einstein -- and in what context or under what conditions? Steven Feldman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:38:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:03:31 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] Duke Peter discourses thus, about the distinction between the CSICOP use of "skeptic," and what's alleged to be the Greek use of the term: > Date: 09 Apr 97 08:45:10 EDT > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM>[Peter Brookesmith] > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] > It may be a handy distinction, but it happens to have nothing to do > with the "old Greek sense" of the word. Liddell and Scott give two > meanings for "skeptomai" (the reflexive verb from which "skeptic" > derives) in archaic Greek: > I: to look about, look carefully at, look after, watch. > II: (of the mind) to look into, view, examine, consider. > There is NO connotation of uncertainty. In modern Greek you would > use "skeptomai" to say "I think..." when you mean it is your > considered opinion or when describing the act of thinking; the archaic > connotations of being thoughtful and circumspect remain. If you > wanted to say "I think it's three o'clock" but you don't have a > watch and are not really sure, you'd probably use "fantazomai", or > possibly "pistevo". But surely, O Duke, your own countryman David Hume used "skeptic" in the sense you say the Greeks don't....and thus established that meaning of "skepticism" in more modern philosophy. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:03:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:10:34 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:29:57 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: A use of the term flap > I thought readers of the UFOupdates list might find interesting the > following use of the term "flap" that I located in literature regarding > the intelligence community. > (An aside to Jan Aldrich may be appropriate here - watching CSPAN the > other night I found two former Defense Department Secretaries, a former > Director of Central Intelligence and the Chairman of the House Committee > on Intelligence all used the community word and seemed to consider > themselves a part of it. So I'm in good company). Gary, you have missed the point here. The argument was not that they called it a "community." That is given! It is the inferences the UFO community draws from the word. I did not agrue about the word. The word is used all the time. My point was that you should not think that is a seemless command controled structure. Intelligence agencies response to their boss as first priority and not necessarily to the DCI> As with most large competing bureaucracies, there is plenty of infighting. Don't get taken inby the words. The so called Holy Roman Empire, as Voltaire, said was neither Holy nor Roman nor an empire. > Ernest Volkman is an "acknowledged authority on espionage and > intelligence. Formerly a prize-winning investigative reporter for > Newsday and executive editor of Espionage magazine". He has made media > appearances on Nightline, CNN, and the Today show as an expert in the > field. I found Volkman's exposition on the term "flap" in his book > Espionage (pp.177) in a discussion of terminology used in a particular > branch of the intelligence community (the Central Intelligence Agency, > CIA). The term flap is military slang an probably pre-dates the CIA. The only way to really determine when the word came into general usage is to look a some of the more free wheeling unit newspaper or news sheets and see when the word appeared in print. Stars and Stripes or the wartime magazine in Europe might have the term. No doubt there are books on military slang. > "As with all other areas of human endeavor, espionage is subject to > Murphy's Law, which dictates that what can go wrong, will. CIA > officials like to call it "flap", the distressing tendency of certain > major intelligence operations to go badly awry, too often with the kind > of spectacular explosion that tends to attract a lot of public (and > unwelcome) attention." > Interesting? Maybe someone reading UFOupdates will know how, when and > by whom this term was introduced into ufology. Significance - possibly > none. > However, it is worthwhile noting that in 1956 Edward J. Ruppelt (Former > Head of the United States Air Force Project Blue Book) mentioned in his > book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects" an intelligence > insiders phrase - "puzzle palace" (see pp. 137). It would not be until > almost 25 years later that it would become known that this phrase was > the insiders nickname for the National Security Agency (NSA), it was > also known as No Such Agency. Bamford appropriated this GI slang for his book title. Every GI knows that the "Puzzle Palace" is the next higher headquarters (i. e. they have have know idea of what they are doing.) So Ruppelt is not using some secret code here. (No doubt insiders at the NSA called themselve or were called the puzzle palace.) The phase was in common use when I joined the military, and it did not refer to the NSA. The ultimate puzzle palace is the Pentagon which Ruppelt's usage in his book. If you read Ruppelt's reference incontext you will see he is referring to HQ, USAF, Intelligence and Information offices. Also, the NSA was not formed until after the time period in which Ruppelt uses this phrase. > For those who would like to convince others that the intelligence > community was not involved in the investigation of UFOs, lets look as > far back as the early 1950s and note the following. Speaking about his > work in 1952 Ruppelt says (pp 137)(Chapter Ten - Project Blue Book and > the Big Build-Up): > "All of these inquiries from the press were adding to Blue Book's work > load and to my problems. Normally a unit such as ATIC has its own > public relations officer, but we had none so I was it. I was being > quoted quite freely in the press and was repeatedly being snarled at by > someone in the Pentagon. It was almost a daily occurence to have people > from the 'puzzle palace' call and indignantly ask, 'Why did you tell > them that?' They usually referred to some bit of information that > somebody didn't think should have been released. I finally gave up and > complained to Colonel Dunn. I suggested that any contacts with the > press be made through the Office of Public Information in the Pentagon. > These people were trained and paid to do this job; I wasn't. Colonel > Dunn heartily agreed because every time I got chewed out he at least got > a dirty look." > There it is folks, Ruppelt, the head of the Air Force's Blue Book was > being told almost daily what to say or not say by the people in the > "puzzle palace" - the NSA. No, the NSA did not exist then! Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:10:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? At 11:11 AM 4/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) >Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) >Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the Apollo space >craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the Apollo lunar missions. My Information on Chatelain is different... "when James Oberg contacted Chatelain's employers he learned that Chatelain was no longer employed by them when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. If he was no longer an employee of a NASA sub-contractor then he could not have been present in any so-called "secret room" where he could overhear the confidential communications of the astronauts on the lunar surface. He was a low-level engineer who worked for a NASA sub-contractor who built the Apollo communications systems. His status as the "head of communications" (as some UFOlogists have claimed), is entirely false." Karel. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:40:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:30:49 -0400 Subject: > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:59:56 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > > > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 > > > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > snip < > > If the "take over" people wanted to, as you say, develop a > > good investigative/observation operation, then the thing to > > do was to pour money into a captive NICAP and keep their > > outstanding investigative network going. > You are sanatizing the history a bit here Jan by omitting a discussion > of the significant roles played by Admiral Hillenkoetter and Maj. Donald > Keyhoe about this time. A part of this drama is played out in Donald > Keyhoe's Aliens From Space (1973) chapter 5 The CIA Takes Over and > Chapter 6 Invisible Control. Lets not forget to mention as you do that > Hillenkoettner was not just a naval military officer, he was the Pacific > Commander of Intelligence in WWII and the FIRST Director of the Central > Intelligence Agency, CIA. Keyhoe had long been pushing the Air Force to > tell the public what he believed it knew and Keyhoe was trying to force > Congressional hearing on the UFO. Keyhoe after many years of trying > fruitlessly to headbutt the Air Force into coming clean with the public > was realizing that the Air Force was not really in charge at all. He > came to a public realization that the CIA was and probably had been all > along. On the eve of succeeding in obtaining the Congressional hearing > he sought all along his good buddy and supporter Hillenkoettner who was > to be his "spearhead" for the Congressional show resigned and with it > died the Congressional hearing. Keyhoe had crossed the line. Do you > think that Hillenkoettner the DCI and first director of the CIA was > going under oath testify. Keyhoe was either made or asked to fall on > his own sword. In his book all that Keyhoe has to say about his friend > Hillenkoettner's resignation is the "cause of the admiral's actions was > still a mystery". I give Keyhoe credit for much more insight than that, > look at this life story. Gary, I did mention in previous posts that Hillenkoetter was the CIA director. Why Hillenkoetter quit NICAP is a mystery? I don't know, your speculation is as good as any. Hillenkoetter quit *long* before Keyhoe was ejected. However, Hillenkoetter's file at NICAP and in Keyhoe's papers is rather lean. He like most of the Board members was not very active. He did make one statement that was most helpful to NICAP. Much later Menzel wrote to Hillenkoetter implying that Keyhoe made up the statement. Hillenkoetter did not raise to the bait and take the easy way and "just say I never said the things Keyhoe attributes to me." As for blocking the first hearings, the House Speaker was skeptical of UFOs and of having Congress take up the subject. Indications in Hynek correspondence were that the Air Force--not the CIA as Keyhoe states--got McCormack to intervene and kill these off. > The takeover of NICAP consisted of removing these players from the scene > so that NICAP would not push for Congressional investigations which > might get out of hand; Prior to Keyhoe's removal his main supporter in Congress, Rousch, lost the election. NICAP was not at this time about to have any Congressional Hearings. The place was divided. Hall was out of favor, and everyone was fighting for position. > and so that the CIAs role would remain unexamined > for many, many years. I see, and the financial problems, personal conflicts, etc. were planted in the letters of Keyhoe, Lore, Hall, McDonald, Bloecher, Davis, Epperson, Earley and others. > If it hadn't been for the FOIA and the CAUS > lawsuit we still might not know about the CIAs role. Some CIA documents--sightings, newspaper translations radio news translation--were in the Blue Book files and available prior to the CAUS lawsuit. Also, the Robertson panel material was available prior to the lawsuit. > The open source > collection capability of NICAP was left in place, why not, Keyhoe had > created a pretty good public intelligence organization and they paid > their own dues and it didn't have to come out of a CIA budget line. Except the network was not retained under Staut Nixon. It fell apart. So this line of argument does not work. Sorry, NICAP was falling apart here. They could not pay their bills. They were not taking enough income to pay one staff member, let alone ten. The was also a lot of internal conflict Bleocher, Davis et al. had their own ideas about what should be done, how Condon should be answered, abd what NICAP's strategy should be. [Jan Aldrich]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Nellis Video? From: wnaka@sili.com.br (Wilson Nakashima) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:27:30 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:30:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Nellis Video? > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:32:27 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nellis Video? <snip> > I've covered this in another post that maybe hasn't been published on the > list yet so briefly, it was recorded on video by a network newsteam over a > city (whose name I can't make out because I don't speak Portuguese! Sao > Paolo is a 'state' not a city) and at one point the camera pans down to > reveal a city street full of people that are all looking up and very > animated, talking and waving and pointing at he sky. Looks like any given > night here in NY! <G> Crowded city street scene Amy. Can't take a 'head > count' the camera pan is too quick. <snip> Hi John and All, This is my first post in UFO Update and I'd like to inform you Sao Paulo is a state AND a city. ( 10th great city in the World) :)) The video footage probably come from TV Globo, they frequently do reports about UFOS in Brazil. Several very impressive. Pedro Cunha (pcunha@navigat.ax.apc.org), perhaps could inform you more about the video. []'s and greetings from Sao Paulo.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:11:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:56:17 -0400 Subject: Dear colleagues, I wonder, can you be of some assistance? I am looking for E-mail addresses of any media in either the USA or the UK. This can be national or local newspapers, magazines, TV or radio. Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Area 51 Film On 'Strange Universe' - 04-14-97 From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:12:54 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:58:00 -0400 Subject: Area 51 Film On 'Strange Universe' - 04-14-97 'Strange Universe' Devotes Entire Show on Monday, April 14 to Exclusive Sneak Preview of Alien Interview Smuggled From Area 51 LOS ANGELES, April 10 /PRNewswire/ -- On Monday, April 14, "Strange Universe" will broadcast an exclusive sneak preview of allegedly smuggled footage from Area 51 of an alien interview. The footage is so extraordinary that, for the first time since the launch of "Strange Universe," an entire program will be devoted to a single topic. Close encounter witnesses Whitley Strieber, Steve Neill, Jesse Long and Alice Leavy viewed the footage and are interviewed as part of this special program. This "Strange Universe" exclusive will feature video from a six minute piece of footage smuggled out of Area 51 by a mysterious person known only as "Victor." Victor claims that he had "occasion to be there" and took this while the entire contents of a massive series of interviews with a number of alien creatures was being downloaded from video to analog. This video purports to be of an alien creature being filmed through a one way mirror and being questioned by a U.S. General and a telepathic aide. Renee Barnett, "Strange Universe" director of research, stated, "I had heard rumors about this video a few months ago but it was only this week that we were able to obtain the right to broadcast a limited segment of this extraordinary alien interview." Famed author Whitley Strieber who wrote about his close encounter experiences in the book, "Communion," (made into a motion picture starring Christopher Walken) stated, "There are things about this footage that are particularly striking. Some of the least known features reported by witnesses are presented here. If this tape is not authentic, then it must have been made by people with very special inside knowledge." Area 51 is alleged to be a top secret military installation in Nevada. Until recently, the U.S. government denied that this underground base even existed. Some believe that Area 51 is the center of the U.S. government's clandestine UFO research. "Strange Universe" is a syndicated half-hour daily newsmagazine produced by Chris-Craft/United Television and distributed by RYSHER Entertainment. SOURCE RYSHER Entertainment
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Arizona sightings From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:40:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:47:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:46:20 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings >> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >> Subject: Arizona sightings >> Well, I just got through reviewing a >> copy of the Arizona sightings videotape >> that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a >> "must see" for all who believe that >> UFO's, unmarked black helicopters, and >> media cover-ups are just the product >> of overworked imaginations or attention >> seekers! >> Clear daylight footage of the UFO's >> and the black helicopters bring a >> forceful reality to a subject that >> many entertain on a purely intellectual >> level. There is no denying that >> something MAJOR and significant is >> unfolding in the skies over Phoenix. >> John Velez >John, How would we get a copy? I'd really like to see this video - feel >like making a few copies and selling them, for costs of reproduction & >shipping plus something for your time? If you're willing, put me on >your list for distribution & tell me how much!! THANKS >Melanie ============================= Hi Melanie, That video was taken by Tom King and several others from Phoenix. It belongs to them. Anyone interested in copies should contact Tom at: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) I don't know how prepared Tommy is to make copies up for sale, but it's really worth a try. This tape is truely amazing stuff! I (may) be able to provide copies of the "Brazil" tape however, I'm looking into the issue of 'copyrights' as we speak. Should have an answer soon. Anyone interested in a copy of 'that' tape can contact me privately at: jvif@spacelab.net "Get yer tapes fer sale right heah!" Geez, am I starting to sound like Stan Friedman? <G> John Velez :) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Arizona sightings From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:44:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:55:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > > Subject: Arizona sightings > > Well, I just got through reviewing a > > copy of the Arizona sightings videotape > > that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a > > "must see" for all who believe that > > UFO's, unmarked black helicopters, and > > media cover-ups are just the product > > of overworked imaginations or attention > > seekers! > > unfolding in the skies over Phoenix. > > John Velez > John, How would we get a copy? I'd really like to see this video - feel > like making a few copies and selling them, for costs of reproduction & > shipping plus something for your time? If you're willing, put me on > your list for distribution & tell me how much!! THANKS > Melanie Count me in, too, John. Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Caution - UFO Radiation From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Apr 97 13:34:48 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:49:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 13:18:16 -0400 >From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: CAUTION - UFO RADIATION Jennifer quoted from; >"UNCONVENTIONAL FLYING OBJECTS" by Paul R. Hill. Evidently treating it as a gospel, for; >I conclude that UFO's radiate between >25 electron volts, which is the bottom of the x-ray band, and 3 million >electron volts, which is into the lower end of the gamma ray spectrum. >This radiation readily accounts for the radiation sickness reported in >various cases, because the radiation data taken by Bill Rogers indicates >not only that the radiation is a type to cause trouble, but that it has >adequate intensity to be very serious. Indeedy-do, and fifty years of this radiation would tend to show up as a slight escalation, not to mention showing up as an angry welt across sky observations in this range of wavelengths. Ah. but they cover those up, don't they? I haven't read this book, yet, but it seems to fall into the same trap that all books of the ilk that 'explain' nuts and bolts objects in that rarely are UFOs so consistent. A brief, and no doubt inaccurate, comparision could be drawn by the radiation burns suffered by L. Zamora (ie none) and Betty Cash (oodles). And not one sighting was accompanied by a description of ionisation by *smell*. Interesting point, that last one. >X-rays would also penetrate a few inches of soil, giving up their >energy to plant-root depths. Not to mention causing genetic defects and *cooking* the soil. >By way of review, we further note that the visible colors come from the >ionized atmosphere surrounding the UFO, not from the UFO, except by >reflection from the UFO surface Not in the SOBEPS UFOs... James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:19:54 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:59:33 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peeble >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 10:17:08 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: First Use of the term 'flap' >Sent: 9/4/97 5:53 pm >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto, updates@globalserve.net >Immediately after sending my previous post ... I took down Jerome Clark's >UFO encyclopedia, vol 3, 'High Strangeness', to find he has an entry on >'Waves' in which he says... >"UFO writers of the 1950s termed this increase a 'flap'." >But which writers... ? Hi there, I am new to this discussion, but it seems that you are limiting your scope to UFO literature and books on secret services. UFO's have been extensively reported in the regular press as well and this could also be the origin of the word 'flap'. I might add to that, that the vocabulary of a regular journalist is usually larger than those of dedicated UFO writers. No offense meant, of course. *********************************** Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands ***********************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:42:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:03:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP NICAP History "The UFO Cover-UP" by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry J. Greenwood (1984) During NICAP's first year of exstence under it's original founder, T. Townshend Brown, several mysterous persons managed to fit themselves into NICAP's structure. One, named Nicolas de Rochefort, was a Russian immigrant who, among other jobs, wrote scripts in French and Russian for the Voice of America. He was also employed by the Psychological Warfare Staff of the CIA. De Rochefort became NICAP's Vice-Chairman, alongside Brown. Another NICAP staffer in 1956 was a man named Bernard J.O. Carvalho, a native of Portugal, who was also involvd in CIA-owned companies (secretly owned, that is). Perhaps the involvement of two CIA employees was not all that mysterious. After all, T. Townshend Brown's leadership of NICAP was short lived and, in fact, ended near the end of 1956. Well-known UFO authority Major Donald Keyhoe managed to beef up NICAP's prestige by looking for and appointing prominent people to NICAP's Board of Governors. One of the first board appointees was Vicie Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, a Naval Academy classmate of Keyhoe's and the first Director of the CIIA, when it formed in 1947. Hillenkoetter made a number of positive statements on UFO reality, thus endearing himself to Keyhoe. This relationship reversed itself, however, when Keyhoe developed NICAP into a fierce opponent of government secrecy and pushed for Congressioinal hearings in the early 1960s. Hillenkoetter abruptly resigned from NICAP, expressing the opinion that NICAP went as far as it could go, and no further criticism should be aimed at the Air Force for its handling of UFOs. It can probably be surmised that Hillenkotter was pressured out of NICAP by the CIA, since it was of considerable embarrassment to the CIA to have a former Director making pro-UFO statements. Further evidence of CIA influence in NICAP developed during the period immediately before NICAP's decline. On December 3, 1969, Donald Keyhoe was ousted as NICAP's Director during a Board meeting. Who led the effort to remove Keyhoe? The Chairman of the Board, Col. Joesph Bryan, former Chief of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff (1947-1953). And who replaced Keyhoe? John Acuff, who was the head of the Society of Photographic Scientists and Engineers (SPSE), a frequent target of Russian spying attempts and a group that had many members involved in Defense Department intelligence units, including the CIA. His management of NICAP was financially "tight' (in the cheap sense) and totally inept in a research sense. Criticism of government UFO policy was gone, and NICAP merely served as a sighting collection center. Acuff's management drove loyal NICAP Board members away and ultmately led to Acuff's downfall in 1978. Who replaced Acuff? None other than Alan Hall, a retired CIA employee, who accepted the position after a number of other CIA employees were offered the job. Support for Hall from the NICAP Board came from Charles Lombard, an aide to Senator Goldwater and former CIA covert employee. NICAP eventually became so ineffective that it was dissolved, and the group's UFO files were absorbed by the Center for UFO Studies in Evanston, Illinois. There certainly seems to be a pattern behind NICAP's destruction. Is it a coincidence that so many ex-CIA people became deeply involved in the operation of NICAP? It is possible that the CIA wanted to influence NICAP activities for several reasons: 1) To gather intelligence through NICAP's investigators network. 2) To identify and plug leaks from government soures (NICAP was renowned for receiving military-oriented reports). 3) To monitor other hostile intelligence agencies (NICAP received several overtures from the Soviet KGB). After Acuff's bungled management of NICAP, the CIA may have felt that NICAP's effectiveness as a "front" was gone and allowed it to be taken over by CUFOS. Speculation? Yes, but not without justification, as one can clearly read. A new question now arises. Would the same thing happen to another UFO group that became effective and efficient? We can only watch for the signs. The structure of CAUS underwent changes (not CIA-induced!) in the 1980s. Peter Gersten became its new Director, with Lawrence Fawcett as Assistant Director. A Board of Advisors was formed, containing well-known names in UFO research such as Raymond Fowler, Stanton Freidman, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, and others. The focus, to this day, continues to be the release of government documents on UFOs, although pressure by the Reagan Administration to restrict the Freedom of Information Act may hamper the work of CAUSE in this area. It is important that the public become involved in the search at this time. To prevent further dissolution of the FOIA, we urge ccitizens to write to their elected officials telling them to support the free flow of government information, particularly about UFOs. Use this book as a source of documented evidence. Make copies of the reports and send them to your Senators and Congressmen. CAUS has been effective in obtaining new data, but there is strength in numbers. The more support behind CAUS's efforts to inform the public, the better off both the public and CAUS will be. ________ /___ ___\ Ian Read \\__\/__// \ .. / UFO Discovery \ / http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ \ / Newsgroup - alt.binaries.ufo.files \/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:19:56 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:00:51 -0400 Subject: >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:45:01 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET >> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:42 +0200 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >> Subject: serious space scientists seek ET >> The search for intelligent life beyond Mother Earth is at the heart of >> NASA's Origins programme, which is expected to spend more than $1 billion >> over the next five years trying to answer such cosmic questions as when and >> how the universe began, when it might end and whether life exists ``out >> there.'' >I thought NASA pulled the plug on the SETI program some time ago. Am I >wrong on this. >Don Ledger No, Don. SETI was continued as a low budget private undertaking, financed by people like Steven Spielberg and one of the co-founders of Hewlett-Packard (don't remember which). And some others. > often wondered why this happened until it ocurred to >me that perhaps the Government of the United States decided not to >waste money on a project to which they already knew the answer but I >still have not firmly convinced myself that that was the reason. In the real world, money is usually not spent when there is no short term benefit in sight. This has nothing to do with the US government knowing about ET's. *********************************** Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands ***********************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: 'Beyond Belief From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 14:10:55 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:02:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief >Date: 10 Apr 97 18:35:28 EDT >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' I originally wrote: >>Without access to the actual "film," or positive identification >>of (much less face-to-face on-the-record interviews with) "The >>Cameraman" or any other relevant eyewitness or evidence, just >>what exactly is there for the "IRT" to research? To which Herr Hesemann replied: >In historical research -which, besides Cultural Anthropology, >is my area of expertise, I studied it at Gottingen University >-you rarely speak with a witness of a historical event, because in >most cases noone is alive anymore, and of many documents >you only have many-generations-reproductions. In this case, the primary witness -- the "Cameraman" -- is still alive (according to Santilli), and we allegedly have the 1st generation film of the subject in question (again, according to Santilli). >Still, we do have fragments of the film, we have the cameramans >story and the film itself, and that was enough material for our >investigation of many different aspects of the film and its content. >We don't have PROOF that the film is authentic, but the evidence >indicates it is. Are you saying you have fragments of the film bearing the image of the "alien" or "autopsy room"? If so, this controversy could go a long way towards being resolved by having the film dated through chemical analysis. If you do indeed possess frames showing these images, why haven't you submitted this film for independent analysis? While not necessarily proving the film's authenticity, an independent determination that the film was of 1940s-50s vintage would be the single most important evidence supporting the authenticity of the Santilli autopsy video. If your frames don't contain images of the "alien" or "autopsy room," why even cite your possession of such frames since such extraneous film could have come from anywhere and is useless for verification purposes? Supporting evidence for this case is so tenuous that just the verification that there is actually a "film" (no matter what vintage) containing the "alien autopsy" images would boost this caper's credibility. Can you even verify the existence of a "film" at this point? >>Again, how do you know that "The Cameraman" said or drew >>anything -- unless you have positively identified this alleged >>mystery man and interviewed him personally. Or are you taking >>Santilli's word that this is what "The Cameraman" said? >A personal interview doesn't prove anything. I interviewed Frank >Kaufmann in person but that doesn't mean automatically that >he is telling the truth. Even if I would meet the cameraman and he >could prove he worked for the military, it still wouldn't >PROVE he filmed an alien autopsy. And the sceptics would still >say Ray Santilli hired an old cameraman to tell the story he wanted >him to tell. Of course. But at least you can state with certainty that Frank Kauffman really exists. At this point, you can't even make that basic claim about Santilli's "Cameraman," can you? >What counts is INFORMATION. I don't care if Ray dreamed the >cameramans story (and is a psychic), if he got the info from a >gov't agent or if the cameraman-story is true - FACT is that I >could verify parts of its CONTENT. What aspects of the Santilli alien autopsy video story have you and your associates verified to date? There's nothing that I'm aware of. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:08:01 -0400 Subject: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? Science relys on the repeatable and controlled expermental process. This works fine in the lab and with things that are of lesser intelligence than the expermenter. I submit that science fails when it is applied to equal or higher intelligence. At least science as understood by most scientists. There are many in the UFO community who think that science can solve the UFO problem with scientific solutions. I think they are wrong. 1. It is obvious that the UFO problem has developed into a political problem because there is a coverup and so is deserving of political solutions. 2. The UFO problem is a intelligence problem as the intelligence agencys know full well. A approach from a intelligence perspective can yield understanding of this issue. Let me give an example as to why science can't deal well with intelligent phenomenon. I was talking to a marine biologist friend of mine the other day. He gave me an example. A scientific friend set up a experiment to study a octupus. He became incredibly frustrated over three days trying to set up this experiment. The problem was that the octupus was watching him and moving the stakes to see what he the researcher would do. After three days of frustration the researcher came to a profound conclusion. The octupus was intelligent and was expermenting on him also. This realy blew his mind. The mainstay of science is the controlled experiment and it was inadaquate to the task at hand. The researcher realized he was not a objective observer. He had come into a relationship with the octupus. This very same thing is going on in the UFO field. Not only do we have intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. The best, Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Apr 97 16:41:41 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:38:35 -0400 Duke P presents his compliments to Greg, who waxeth thus: >But surely, O Duke, your own countryman David Hume used "skeptic" in >the sense you say the Greeks don't....and thus established that >meaning of "skepticism" in more modern philosophy. I take your word for it. But I'm not objecting to this meaning of "skepticism" in modern English, only to Bob [Rickard]'s suggestion that "skeptomai" had connotations of doubt, rather than simply of consideration and thoughtfulness, in archaic Greek. It is true that the Greek Skeptic philosophers (prop: Pyrrho, 318-272 BCE) were doubters, but they doubted *everything*, using a kind of philosophical destruction test on knowledge to conclude that nothing could be known for certain. But it would be wrong to suggest that their label wormed its way back to shift the meaning of the word in general use - that would be like suggesting the word "scholar" could only refer to the medieval Schoolmen, or to a Grade 3 Jesuit. Yours thoughtfully Le Grand Fromage Odorat de Mendoze
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 18:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:08:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? Karel Bagchus wrote: > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:10:43 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > At 11:11 AM 4/9/97 -0400, you wrote: > >From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) > >Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) > >Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the Apollo space > >craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the Apollo lunar missions. > My Information on Chatelain is different... > "when James Oberg contacted Chatelain's employers he learned that Chatelain > was no longer employed by them when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. If he was > no longer an employee of a NASA sub-contractor then he could not have been > present in any so-called "secret room" where he could overhear the > confidential communications of the astronauts on the lunar surface. He was > a low-level engineer who worked for a NASA sub-contractor who built the > Apollo communications systems. His status as the "head of communications" > (as some UFOlogists have claimed), is entirely false." > Karel Bagchus Oops! I should have mentioned that my information came from the Foreward in the book, which was written by Charles Berlitz. My apologies, and thank you for the information. John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:34:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:09:56 -0400 Subject: > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:19:56 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:45:01 +0000 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Serious Space Scientists Seek ET > >I thought NASA pulled the plug on the SETI program some time ago. Am I > >wrong on this. > >Don Ledger > No, Don. SETI was continued as a low budget private undertaking, financed by > people like Steven Spielberg and one of the co-founders of Hewlett-Packard > (don't remember which). And some others. Perhaps I should have said NASA pulled the plug on "THEIR" SETI program in which they were going to invest a gazillion dollars. And your right Henney, the program continued (but very watered down) in many different areas including Canada, mostly in privately or semi-privately funded programs, in universities for instance.. > > often wondered why this happened until it ocurred to > >me that perhaps the Government of the United States decided not to > >waste money on a project to which they already knew the answer but I > >still have not firmly convinced myself that that was the reason. > In the real world, money is usually not spent when there is no short term > benefit in sight. This has nothing to do with the US government knowing > about ET's. I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek Henney, one of the two on my head that is. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Arizona sightings From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:28:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:37:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings At 9:47 AM -0400 4/11/97, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:46:20 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings >> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >> Subject: Arizona sightings >> Well, I just got through reviewing a >> copy of the Arizona sightings videotape >> that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a >> "must see" for all who believe that >> UFO's, unmarked black helicopters, and >> media cover-ups are just the product >> of overworked imaginations or attention >> seekers! >> Clear daylight footage of the UFO's >> and the black helicopters bring a >> forceful reality to a subject that >> many entertain on a purely intellectual >> level. There is no denying that >> something MAJOR and significant is >> unfolding in the skies over Phoenix. >> John Velez >John, How would we get a copy? I'd really like to see this video - feel >like making a few copies and selling them, for costs of reproduction & >shipping plus something for your time? If you're willing, put me on >your list for distribution & tell me how much!! THANKS Let me second that. I hate to be low tech, especially being a multimedia software engineer, but Netscape and Explorer are constantly crashing on me when I try to pull down video. It also takes time, and the compression of (potentially) already imperfectly focussed objects can't help. Let's get some videos moving around. If I can get a copy here I can be sure to pass it on to other people I know. Geoff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Apr 97 16:41:41 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:39:01 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:38:35 -0400 Duke P presents his compliments to Greg, who waxeth thus: >But surely, O Duke, your own countryman David Hume used "skeptic" in >the sense you say the Greeks don't....and thus established that >meaning of "skepticism" in more modern philosophy. I take your word for it. But I'm not objecting to this meaning of "skepticism" in modern English, only to Bob [Rickard]'s suggestion that "skeptomai" had connotations of doubt, rather than simply of consideration and thoughtfulness, in archaic Greek. It is true that the Greek Skeptic philosophers (prop: Pyrrho, 318-272 BCE) were doubters, but they doubted *everything*, using a kind of philosophical destruction test on knowledge to conclude that nothing could be known for certain. But it would be wrong to suggest that their label wormed its way back to shift the meaning of the word in general use - that would be like suggesting the word "scholar" could only refer to the medieval Schoolmen, or to a Grade 3 Jesuit. Yours thoughtfully Le Grand Fromage Odorat de Mendoze
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 First Annual UFO Conference, Hicksville, LI, NY From: Rosebuds6@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:46:21 -0400 Subject: First Annual UFO Conference, Hicksville, LI, NY SUNDAY NOV 2 1997 FIRST ANNUAL UFO CONFERENCE SPONSORED BY THE EYES OF LEARNING INC AND STARPEOPLE (A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION) LOCATION LEVITTOWN HALL LEVITTOWN PARKWAY HICKSVILLE NEW YORK FEATURING BUDD HOPKINS--AUTHOR--LECTURER HAROLD EGLEN JR--FOUNDER OF S P A C E (GROUP OF ABDUCTEES/EXPERIENCERS) PAUL WILLIAMS--UFO DESK WBAI 99.5 FM REV. MICHAEL CARTER--UFOS AND THE BIBLE PANEL OF REGRESSED ABDUCTEES VENDORS----ALIEN ARTWORK APPROX TIMES 930AM----730PM TICKETS PREPAID BY SEPT 1 1997 $50.00 TICKETS IF AVAILABLE AT DOOR $60.00 LIMITED AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE TICKETS PLEASE SEND CHECK OR MONEYORDER WITH S A S E TO THE EYES OF LEARNING C/0 JOANNE OR JANET POB 462 FARMINGDALE NEW YORK 11735 E-MAIL ROSEBUDS6@AOL.COM FAX 516-654-3173 E-MAIL WOLFLADY@AOL.COM FAX 516-843-1923 VISIT OUR WEBSITE http://members.aol.com/Wolflady/TVshow.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Apr 97 19:35:16 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:47:40 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 14:10:55 cst To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >In this case, the primary witness -- the "Cameraman" -- is still >alive (according to Santilli), and we allegedly have the 1st >generation film of the subject in question (again, according to >Santilli). You missed my point, sorry. My point was that you can do historical research even without personally interviewing the witness or possessing the original of a document. I just talked about the methodology, not the AA situation, since your point was: "Without meeting the cameraman and having the original film, what kind of investigation they did"... >Are you saying you have fragments of the film bearing the image of >the "alien" or "autopsy room"? If so, this controversy could go a >ong way towards being resolved by having the film dated through >chemical analysis. I don't speak in pluralis majestatis yet, so if I say "we" I mean the team, in this case Bob Shell, Phil Mantle, Maurizio Baiata and Prof. Corrado Malanga. Unfortunately these frames don't show the alien body and it is not sure if they show the autopsy room. The result of a physical AND chemical analysis is that it was Acetate Pripionate film as produced by Kodak before 1956. At least the graining, quality etc. of the frames is the same as in the Alien Autopsy Footage and we have Ray Santilli's word that it is from the same stock. Furthermore the room it shows, with a table in the center, might very well be the autopsy room, although Theresa Carlton believes it isn't . >Of course. But at least you can state with certainty that Frank >Kauffman really exists. At this point, you can't even make that >basic claim about Santilli's "Cameraman," can you? With the same logic I could ask: How do I know the man I met WAS the real Frank Kaufmann? The cameraman was inter- viewed, I saw the footage. And - for the historical research I did it is not important IF the cameraman exists or really is what he claims or if the man we know got the film from a colleague or whatsoever. We confirmed the EVENT took place and we have every reason to believe the being on the autopsy table indeed is not a member of the human race. Even if Ray would "admit" he got the film and the story in an envelope without the senders address that wouldn't change a iota of our research results. Michael Hesemann, Dusseldorf/GER Search for other documents from or mentioning: 100660.3672 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:48:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >Very interesting idea. But I can not see it supported by >the evidence so far. As I say some of the people who >stayed on after Keyhoe and Lore were ejected, like >Nixon, Accuf, and Diana Sinkler, who was definitely the >most effective person left from the old NICAP staff, >should be interviewed. >> Jan have you considered the possibility that UFO >>organizations >> if properly managed would not be a threat to a coverup but >>could >> be a intelligence asset. >No, Ed, I haven't. >I considered a number of things, but I like some kind of >evidence. >If the "take over" people wanted to, as you say, develop a >good investigative/observation operation, then the thing to >do was to pour money into a captive NICAP and keep their >outstanding investigative network going. Jan do you think that anybody is going to admit they were a mole in civilian UFO organization. Look what happened to Bill Moore when he fessed up. I am sure you know that solid evidence in a inteligence game is extremely difficult to find if at all. We must all fly by the seat of our pants. If I get intelligence that there is a machine gun nest on the other side of the hill don't you think I am going to fly with that information rather than wait for the solid evidence to hit me in the chest. I am sure you remember the quote atributed to Hillenkoettner. Something to the effect that he had gone as far as he could. Well it was very obvious that congressional hearings were causing quite a stir. Keyhoe gets the boot, NICAP disintegrates, then that air force swamp gas debunker Hynek suddenly makes a conversion and pushes for scientific investigations into UFOs. I think Hynek skillfuly diverted the UFO community away from solving a political problem, ie a coverup, with political solutions. He knew full well that a coverup can't be solved with scientific solutions! Hell he was UFO PR man for the air force. As to evidence that Hynek was playing both sides of the fence I would refer you to some of Len Stringfields literature expecialy the little run in Len had with Hynek. I talked to Len about that in person when he was alive. That little series of events is very enlightening from a intelligence perspective. Then we have MUFON and FUFOR come into existance with a man with a NSA background taking, formulative and critical positions in both organizations. Of course if Thomas D. is a mole plugging security leaks and gathering intelligence he is not going to fess up. One thing for sure is that Thomas D. is in exactly the place a intelligence mole should be. I am not saying that he is a mole but he sure as hell is a prime suspect if there every was one just as Hynek was. I or anybody else in their right mind would not give sensitive information to MUFON, CUFOS or FUFOR. The UFO community in my mind looks very much like a compromized intelligence agency. Its confused, conflicted, tied up in knots with petty squabbles. Sure a lot of it is internaly generated but it only takes one or two rather intelligent bad apples to spoil the whole barrel. The best, Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:22:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:10:43 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > >From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) > >Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? > >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) > >Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the Apollo space > >craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the Apollo lunar missions. > My Information on Chatelain is different... > "when James Oberg contacted Chatelain's employers he learned that Chatelain > was no longer employed by them when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. If he was > no longer an employee of a NASA sub-contractor then he could not have been > present in any so-called "secret room" where he could overhear the > confidential communications of the astronauts on the lunar surface. He was > a low-level engineer who worked for a NASA sub-contractor who built the > Apollo communications systems. His status as the "head of communications" > (as some UFOlogists have claimed), is entirely false." > Karel. You do not state where your information comes from "which is different". Don't insult the intelligence of the readers of this list, include your source. Chatelain states in Our Ancestors Came From Outer Space pp 5-10 that he worked for North American Aviation at its Downey, California plant south of Los Angeles. I recall that North American was acquired by Rockwell International if you want to find out what his title was. James Oberg has made many claims regarding Maurice Chatelain. Do you have any primary information e.g. dated verifiable documents from Chatelain's employer or are you just echoing these old Oberg "truths". Those familiar with some of the James Oberg / Brian Zeiler threads in the Usenet group alt.paranet.ufo may be aware that several times Oberg came up short in substantiating his claims. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 18:20:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:59:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:42:41 +0100 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Perhaps you did not see my early posts. Greenwood no long supports > this theory. > NICAP History > "The UFO Cover-UP" by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry J. Greenwood (1984) > During NICAP's first year of exstence under it's original founder, T. > Townshend Brown, several mysterous persons managed to fit themselves > into NICAP's structure. One, named Nicolas de Rochefort, was a Russian > immigrant who, among other jobs, wrote scripts in French and Russian > for the Voice of America. He was also employed by the Psychological > Warfare Staff of the CIA. De Rochefort became NICAP's Vice-Chairman, > alongside Brown. Another NICAP staffer in 1956 was a man named Bernard > J.O. Carvalho, a native of Portugal, who was also involvd in CIA-owned > companies (secretly owned, that is). Perhaps the involvement of two CIA > employees was not all that mysterious. After all, T. Townshend Brown's > leadership of NICAP was short lived and, in fact, ended near the end of > 1956. These people disappeared early on and had no influence when NICAP became operational under Major Keyhoe took over. > Well-known UFO authority Major Donald Keyhoe managed to beef up NICAP's > prestige by looking for and appointing prominent people to NICAP's > Board of Governors. One of the first board appointees was Vicie Admiral > Roscoe Hillenkoetter, a Naval Academy classmate of Keyhoe's and the > first Director of the CIIA, when it formed in 1947. Hillenkoetter made > a number of positive statements on UFO reality, thus endearing himself > to Keyhoe. This relationship reversed itself, however, when Keyhoe > developed NICAP into a fierce opponent of government secrecy and pushed > for Congressioinal hearings in the early 1960s. Hillenkoetter abruptly > resigned from NICAP, expressing the opinion that NICAP went as far as > it could go, and no further criticism should be aimed at the Air Force > for its handling of UFOs. > It can probably be surmised that Hillenkotter was pressured out of NICAP > by the CIA, since it was of considerable embarrassment to the CIA to > have a former Director making pro-UFO statements. Surmises are fine, but why did it take Hillenkoetter so long to resign? He could have easily resigned earlier when Fahrney left. Have no definite facts one answer is as good as another. Hillenkoetter was never was very active in NICAP. His big contribution was his name. > Further evidence of CIA influence in NICAP developed during the period > immediately before NICAP's decline. On December 3, 1969, Donald Keyhoe > was ousted as NICAP's Director during a Board meeting. Who led the > effort to remove Keyhoe? The Chairman of the Board, Col. Joesph Bryan, > former Chief of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff (1947-1953). And > who replaced Keyhoe? John Acuff, who was the head of the Society of > Photographic Scientists and Engineers (SPSE), a frequent target of > Russian spying attempts and a group that had many members involved in > Defense Department intelligence units, including the CIA. His > management of NICAP was financially "tight' (in the cheap sense) and > totally inept in a research sense. Here is another myth. NICAP never spent much money of "research." Most research was provide by members, technicians and specialists for free. If you could find Keyhoe's and Hall's books, you would also see little or no expenditures in this area. >Criticism of government UFO policy > was gone, and NICAP merely served as a sighting collection center. > Acuff's management drove loyal NICAP Board members away and ultmately > led to Acuff's downfall in 1978. > This above account is not accurate. Leadership of NICAP went > from Keyhoe to Lore to Nixon to Acuff and finally to Hall. Letters cited in previous posts and conversations with the some of the people involved do not support this version of events idea. There are still plenty of people who should be talked to and correspondence looked at. As I wrote in a private conversation perhaps if someone talked to Diane Sinkler she may say something like, "That worm, Staurt Nixon, was alway bragging his intelligence connections." > Who replaced Acuff? None other than Alan Hall, a retired CIA employee, > who accepted the position after a number of other CIA employees were > offered the job. Support for Hall from the NICAP Board came from > Charles Lombard, an aide to Senator Goldwater and former CIA covert > employee. Former or retired are important words here. I don't understand Alan Hall's role is this. Richard Hall does think that he had some active CIA connects. Richard Hall also thinks that Stuart Nixon was CIA connected, however Hall could not explain why NICAP's files were not destroyed. > NICAP eventually became so ineffective that it was dissolved, and the > group's UFO files were absorbed by the Center for UFO Studies in > Evanston, Illinois. So the CIA wanted NICAP's material, but then let it fall into CUFOS' hands? > There certainly seems to be a pattern behind NICAP's destruction. Is it > a coincidence that so many ex-CIA people became deeply involved in the > operation of NICAP? It is possible that the CIA wanted to influence > NICAP activities for several reasons: > 1) To gather intelligence through NICAP's investigators network. > 2) To identify and plug leaks from government soures (NICAP was > renowned for receiving military-oriented reports). > 3) To monitor other hostile intelligence agencies (NICAP received > several overtures from the Soviet KGB). If these were goals of the CIA, then they would have put money into NICAP and strengthen the subcommitee system. The opposite is true. So how were these goals to be meet? > After Acuff's bungled management of NICAP, the CIA may have felt that > NICAP's effectiveness as a "front" was gone and allowed it to be taken > over by CUFOS. > Speculation? Yes, but not without justification, as one can clearly > read. A new question now arises. Would the same thing happen to another > UFO group that became effective and efficient? We can only watch for > the signs. > The structure of CAUS underwent changes (not CIA-induced!) in the > 1980s. Peter Gersten became its new Director, with Lawrence Fawcett as > Assistant Director. A Board of Advisors was formed, containing > well-known names in UFO research such as Raymond Fowler, Stanton > Freidman, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, and others. The focus, to this day, > continues to be the release of government documents on UFOs, although > pressure by the Reagan Administration to restrict the Freedom of > Information Act may hamper the work of CAUSE in this area. > It is important that the public become involved in the search at this > time. To prevent further dissolution of the FOIA, we urge ccitizens to > write to their elected officials telling them to support the free flow > of government information, particularly about UFOs. Use this book as a > source of documented evidence. Make copies of the reports and send them > to your Senators and Congressmen. CAUS has been effective in obtaining > new data, but there is strength in numbers. The more support behind > CAUS's efforts to inform the public, the better off both the public and > CAUS will be. It is important that ufologist examine and re-examine what they think they know about the ufo situation instead of repeating as if by rote these nice little neat speculations. Perhaps some one will get angry "with that crazy Aldrich," and say I'll say, "I show him proof his version of events is wacko." There are a lot of question about the demise of NICAP that are not clear. It would be nice if some of the major players were talked to before they die. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Caution - UFO Radiation From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:00:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:39:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation >Date: 09 Apr 97 14:26:16 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Caution - UFO Radiation [snipped for brevity] Dear Mr.Diss, Thank you for your comments on the quote from Mr. Hill's book. I am just quoting what I thought might be a cautionary message to others, like myself, who have been getting in rather close proximity to these anomalous objects just recently. I think that you might find Mr. Hill's book quite interesting to read, study and digest. Mr. Don Ledger seems to find it a useful reference book. At present, I have not been closer than, I estimate, approximately 6 miles. However, on two occasions last week, we experienced a much closer, but slightly higher approach. This was possibly only about 2 miles away, but at higher altitude. I didn't feel this to be a problem as much as the large orange "affairs" that come in at high speed around 5 degrees above the horizon. They then approach in our direction to some sort of access point into Lake Ontario. They hover. Then a very strong beam of similar colour shines down onto the water, and the object submerges. The "close approach" hovered for approximately 4 minutes, and then gradually described a semi-circle about us, before moving silently off behind us. Because of their unusual nature, we feel that we must be cautious around these objects. I was wondering whether, when YOU are getting fairly close to such objects, that you tend to feel the same way?? Very best wishes, Jennifer Jarvis. CSETI Southern Ontario Working Group Co-ordinator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:53:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:53:21 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:03:36 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:29:57 -0400 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > > To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: A use of the term flap > > I thought readers of the UFOupdates list might find interesting the > > following use of the term "flap" that I located in literature regarding > > the intelligence community. > > (An aside to Jan Aldrich may be appropriate here - watching CSPAN the > > other night I found two former Defense Department Secretaries, a former > > Director of Central Intelligence and the Chairman of the House Committee > > on Intelligence all used the community word and seemed to consider > > themselves a part of it. So I'm in good company). > Gary, you have missed the point here. The argument was not that > they called it a "community." That is given! It is the > inferences the UFO community draws from the word. I did not > agrue about the word. The word is used all the time. > My point was that you should not think that is a seemless > command controled structure. Intelligence agencies response > to their boss as first priority and not necessarily to the DCI> > As with most large competing bureaucracies, there is plenty of > infighting. Don't get taken inby the words. The so called > Holy Roman Empire, as Voltaire, said was neither Holy nor > Roman nor an empire. You are correct it is not a seamless command controlled organization, nor is it all knowing and infallible - those would be characteristics of a religious organization not an intelligence agency. However Jan the intelligence agencies are not incompetent and incapable of mounting effective counterintelligence operations, e.g. the Paul Bennewitz affair; there are also other examples too. Can you explain why the UFO histories don't discuss the sighting of renknowned World War II fighter ace pilot Richard Rankin. He was debriefed by military intelligence agents after his sighting which occurred long before Kenneth Arnold's. > > Ernest Volkman is an "acknowledged authority on espionage and > > intelligence. Formerly a prize-winning investigative reporter for > > Newsday and executive editor of Espionage magazine". He has made media > > appearances on Nightline, CNN, and the Today show as an expert in the > > field. I found Volkman's exposition on the term "flap" in his book > > Espionage (pp.177) in a discussion of terminology used in a particular > > branch of the intelligence community (the Central Intelligence Agency, > > CIA). > > The term flap is military slang an probably pre-dates the CIA. The > only way to really determine when the word came into general usage > is to look a some of the more free wheeling unit newspaper or news > sheets and see when the word appeared in print. Stars and Stripes > or the wartime magazine in Europe might have the term. No doubt > there are books on military slang. What does probably pre-dates the CIA mean? What I have found so far is that the meaning used by the CIA as it applies to ufology seems to have been introduced around in the 1950s. I also don't see how you can equate the slang used in the military with the slang used in the intelligence services. > > > "As with all other areas of human endeavor, espionage is subject to > > Murphy's Law, which dictates that what can go wrong, will. CIA > > officials like to call it "flap", the distressing tendency of certain > > major intelligence operations to go badly awry, too often with the kind > > of spectacular explosion that tends to attract a lot of public (and > > unwelcome) attention." > > > Interesting? Maybe someone reading UFOupdates will know how, when and > > by whom this term was introduced into ufology. Significance - possibly > > none. > > > However, it is worthwhile noting that in 1956 Edward J. Ruppelt (Former > > Head of the United States Air Force Project Blue Book) mentioned in his > > book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects" an intelligence > > insiders phrase - "puzzle palace" (see pp. 137). It would not be until > > almost 25 years later that it would become known that this phrase was > > the insiders nickname for the National Security Agency (NSA), it was > > also known as No Such Agency. > > Bamford appropriated this GI slang for his book title. Every GI > knows that the "Puzzle Palace" is the next higher headquarters > (i. e. they have have know idea of what they are doing.) So > Ruppelt is not using some secret code here. (No doubt insiders > at the NSA called themselve or were called the puzzle palace.) > The phase was in common use when I joined the military, > and it did not refer to the NSA. > > The ultimate puzzle palace is the Pentagon which Ruppelt's usage > in his book. If you read Ruppelt's reference incontext you > will see he is referring to HQ, USAF, Intelligence > and Information offices. Also, the NSA was not formed until > after the time period in which Ruppelt uses this phrase. NO. Ruppelt carelfully distinguishes between the Pentagon and the "puzzle palace". Oh and where did you get the idea that the NSA was not formed until after the time period in which Ruppelt uses this phrase? Ruppelt was talking about his experiences in May 1952 and the NSA was established in 1952. Why do I say in 1952 because interestingly James Bamford has this to say regarding the date set for its birth, it "was most likely designed for maximum secrecy; should any hint of its creation leak out, it would be surely swallowed up in the other news of the day - the presidential election of 1952". Bamford also mentions that although the agency was obstensibly born on 12:01 November 4, 1962 that when it was "established" it already had a new director, NUMEROUS buildings and over TEN THOUSAND employees. Jan you either need to get better sources of information or stop passing off this mis or dis information. To my knowledge Truman's seven page memo which established the NSA has still never been declassified. A lot of interesting historical analysis may play on the real date of its establishment. If you have a copy of that memo send it to me. > > For those who would like to convince others that the intelligence > > community was not involved in the investigation of UFOs, lets look as > > far back as the early 1950s and note the following. Speaking about his > > work in 1952 Ruppelt says (pp 137)(Chapter Ten - Project Blue Book and > > the Big Build-Up): > > "All of these inquiries from the press were adding to Blue Book's work > > load and to my problems. Normally a unit such as ATIC has its own > > public relations officer, but we had none so I was it. I was being > > quoted quite freely in the press and was repeatedly being snarled at by > > someone in the Pentagon. It was almost a daily occurence to have people > > from the 'puzzle palace' call and indignantly ask, 'Why did you tell > > them that?' They usually referred to some bit of information that > > somebody didn't think should have been released. I finally gave up and > > complained to Colonel Dunn. I suggested that any contacts with the > > press be made through the Office of Public Information in the Pentagon. > > These people were trained and paid to do this job; I wasn't. Colonel > > Dunn heartily agreed because every time I got chewed out he at least got > > a dirty look." > > There it is folks, Ruppelt, the head of the Air Force's Blue Book was > > being told almost daily what to say or not say by the people in the > > "puzzle palace" - the NSA. > No, the NSA did not exist then! ABSOLUTELY WRONG see the above and see the information below. > Regards, > Jan Aldrich Jan the following is taken from the NSA homepage. They seem to think that they were established in 1952, although they are rather vague as to when, which is within the timeframe Ruppelt is talking about. If they think so why don't you especially since you seem familiar with Bamford's book. What point are you trying to make by revising history? From The NSA Homepage: http://www.nsa.gov About NSA Establishment of NSA NSA was established by Presidential directive in 1952 as a separately organized agency within the Department of Defense (DoD). In this directive, President Truman designated the Secretary of Defense as Executive Agent for the signals intelligence and communications security activities of the Government. The Agency was charged with an additional mission, information systems security for national security systems, in a 1984 Presidential directive, and with an operations security training mission in a 1988 Presidential directive. Under a 1986 law, NSA became a combat support agency of the DoD. NSA/CSS < snip > NSA's Role in the Intelligence Community How does NSA fit into the larger U.S. intelligence picture? The nation's Intelligence Community (IC) is actually a coordinated network of people and organizations, all working together to keep decision makers informed and the country secure. The President, as Commander-in-Chief, has the final authority over all intelligence collection and analysis. The National Security Council, a group of appointed senior officials, assists the President in formulating foreign policy and intelligence priorities. The Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) is responsible for directing and coordinating the diverse activities of all the U.S. intelligence organizations. The National Security Act of 1947 designates the DCI as the primary adviser on national foreign intelligence to the President and National Security Council. To discharge these duties, the DCI serves both as head of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and of the IC. The IC has representation from 13 intelligence agencies, including intelligence functions in the DoD, Departments of Justice (DoJ), Treasury, Energy, and State, and the CIA. While not a military organization, NSA is one of several elements of the IC administered by the DoD. The Defense Intelligence Agency provides military intelligence and coordinates intelligence activities of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. The CIA is an independent organization whose primary responsibilities include covert collection of foreign intelligence and conducting counterintelligence efforts abroad. The FBI is responsible for counterintelligence efforts within the U.S. End of NSA Homepage http://www.nsa.gov Just the facts, Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 12 BWW Media Alert 970411 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:05:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:53:59 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970411 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) April 11, 1997 Well, I have to tell you, that was a bit frustrating. I was running ahead this week, actually had most of this done by Thursday at about six o'clock PM, when my AOL crashed for the first time. That lost me the work I had done (but not the research). Anyway, back to it. I've had a couple of interactions with the media this week that are worth mentioning. I was quoted (actually, misquoted) in the San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner on Sunday (4/6). In general, the piece (on the origins of the theology of the Heaven's Gate group) was quite good. I was in a sidebar about the Mark Twain connection. In talking to the reporter for about half an hour, I mentioned that I had heard (through the excellent UFO ROUND-UP) that the $5.75 they had in their bags might have been related to a Mark Twain story, EXTRACT FROM CAPTAIN STORMFIELD'S VISIT TO HEAVEN. I hadn't read the story at that point, so hadn't confirmed it. I did manage to get the story, and it doesn't mention that amount. It does have a fascinating quote that might relate, but more on that in a minute. Anyway, the article indicated that =I= said it was in there. Ah, well, nice exposure anyway. You can read it at http://www.sfgate.com...search for "Bufo" and you'll find it. If you have the paper, it's on page 6 of the SUNDAY section. I have permission and will quote from Joseph Trainor's UFO UPDATE (available by e-mailing Masinaigan@aol.com) for April 6, 1997. I consider it wholly accurate, at least as it pertains to me: > On March 30, the New York Post reported that the Heaven's Gate victims all had >$5.75 on their persons, likening this to Captain Stormfield, the hero of a 1907 short >story by Samuel Langhorne Clemens, better known as Mark Twain. > UFO researcher Bufo Calvin has disproved that claim and unearthed more evidence >linking the group's founder, Marshall Herff Applewhite, to the >Twain short story. > "Extract from Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven" opens with the hero, a San >Francisco skipper "dead 30 years" flying through deep space. He races a giant >comet, which puts him off course. As a result, he arrives at the wrong "gate" and >finds himself among throngs of aliens ("a sky-blue man with seven heads and only one >leg.") Eventually he gets to the Earth section of Heaven and spends the rest of the >story trying to adjust. > Bufo Calvin uncovered this item in the story: >"And mind you, I'm not talking about only the >grandees from our world, but the princes and >patriarchs and so on from all the worlds that shine >in our sky, and from billions more that belong in >systems upon systems away outside of the one >our sun is in. There were some prophets and >patriarchs there that ours ain't a circumstance to, >for rank and illustriousness and all that. Some >were from Jupiter and other worlds in our own >system, but the most celebrated were the poets, >Saa, Bo and Soof, from great planets in three >different and very remote systems." > Applewhite first called himself "Bo," when he >founded the group in the early 1970s. Did he >borrow the name from the extraterrestial poet- >philosopher in Clemens's story? Finally, Peter Gersten, a well-known lawyer in UFO circles for his FOIA work, has been sending out a serialized story about the future kidnapping of Supreme Court Justice O'Connor and how that leads to the removal of the UFO cover-up. He recently indicated that readers of the story might become involved in the actual events, and had me (by name) calling the FBI to check on whether a Supreme Court Justice was actually missing. What will be funny to people who know me is that he has me hanging up in frustration after being put on hold for ten minutes. People who know me know I'm generally quite patient, and a ten minute hold would be nothing to me in a case like that. If you want to be on the e-mailing list to receive the story (and it's pretty interesting), write Peter at UFOLAWYER@aol.com. Enough about me :) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. This sounds like it could be interesting...on RENEGADE on USA on Thursday at 6:00 PM, the heros fight with the Air Force over alien corpses at a soon-to-be demolished base (episode title: HARD EVIDENCE). On FX on Wednesday at 9:00 PM, they run an old MIAMI VICE called "Missing Hours", which focusses on a possible alien abduction. Gee, I didn't think they ever allowed =anything= "grey" on that show ;) . FX also runs EIGHT IS ENOUGH, and Nicholas sees a UFO on the "Who's On First?" episode run at 8:00 AM on Sunday. TNT is running a couple of interesting movies Sunday night...at 5:00 PM, it's E.T.-THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL., followed at 8:00 PM by EXPLORERS, followed at 9:45 PM by A FIRE IN THE SKY (=not= FIRE IN THE SKY...this one is about a comet, not about Travis Walton, and stars Richard Crenna, not James Garner). At 11:25 AM on Monday, THE MOVIE CHANNEL is showing PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE, an interesting take on Faust (and PHANTOM OF THE OPERA); BAYWATCH has a two-parter Wed and Thu which plays with the idea of a sea monster. AMC has INVASION OF THE BODYSNATCHERS (the original) Friday at 8:00 PM. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. The GREAT MID ATLANTIC 50th ANNIVERSARY UFO SYMPOSIUM: Bethesda Ramada Inn; Saturday, May 3, 9 AM start; Investigator's workshop, Stan Friedman, Linda Howe, Bruce Maccabee, others; $35; Call 301-349-2434 for information. The BEYOND BOUNDARIES =FREE= ROADSHOW (featuring the UFO phenomenon) will be at the following far Northern California locations this weekend: Saturday - April 12th - 2 til 4 pm at the Gold Harvest, 1062 G St., in Arcata California (contact us at 800-259-8747 or Dave Travis at 707-822-6917) Sunday - April 13 - 2 til 4 pm at the Ferndale Victorian Inn, 400 Ocean Ave, Ferndale California Sunday - April 13 - 7 til 9 pm at the Humbolt House Redwood Room, 701 Redwood in N. Garberville PERIODICALS PEOPLE has an interesting cover story on the life stories of the people in the Heaven's Gate group. WEIRD WARE (stuff to buy) The WHAT ON EARTH catalogue has somewhat of a rarity: a Loch Ness Monster t-shirt (also as a sweatshirt). It's a silhouette, sort of more Doc Shiels than "Surgeon's photograph" in its sinuous curves. The Tee is $16.95, the Sweatshirt $26.95, plus $4.50 s&h in the U.S. outside of Ohio. Order number is 1-800-945-2552 RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. You can listen to it on your computer, as well as on many radio stations: go to http://www.endoftheline.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? (They have now provided me with program summaries, which I greatly appreciate!) --week of 4/14: Episode #96-120: In COULD IT BE A MIRACLE, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: a woman talks to angels during an out of body experience and returns to life; a suicidal woman's faith is restored by a mysterious man who saves her life; an angel carries a sick boy to his parents' house so he can get the necessary treatment; the angel experts discuss their opinions on the miraculous; a figure in white appears and saves a young girl from a fire; because they are all mysteriously delayed, the members of a church choir narrowly miss being in an explosion. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 4/13, THE 13TH FLOOR: a possessed woman wants revenge on her husband; THE BELIEVER: psychic extortionist Saturday, April 12 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Here's the line-up: 5:00 PM...Kevin Randle (author* of several books, perhaps most notably UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL* with Don Schmidt) on the Roswell Incident and the government cover-up; 5:30 PM, Barry Bitzer, Press Secretary to N.M. Congressman Steven Schiff who initiated a search into Roswell documents; 6:00 PM, Dr. Lee Shargel, a highly controversial figure in the UFO field, who now claims to have been the last person to speak to Applewhite before the suicides (of course, Stan Johnson, bigfoot contactee, has him beat...he talked to them =after= their suicides!; 6:30 PM, Brian Welch, NASA's Chief of Public Information (or something like that); 6:45 PM, Margaret Roberts, Executive Producer of STRANGE UNIVERSE, about the video they are going to show on Monday with an alien supposedly being interrogated at top-secret Area 51. SU is devoting Monday's show to it; 7:00 PM, Barbara Matacotta & Michele Mason, who doing the "Therapeutic Touch; 7:30 PM, Brad Steiger, the incredibly prolific author on the paranormal, on his personal involvement with Applewhite and Nettles (Bo and Peep, etc.). Steiger really presents well. All in all, a hot show! LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available. Brenda Roberts produces. SYNDICATED TV, THE SALLY JESSY RAPHAEL show: psychic Sylvia Browne 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP (evidence for sea monsters) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: ROSWELL Sunday, April 13 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: FAKES OR PHENOMENA (apparently, things like the Piri Reis map) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT 2:30 PM, LOCAL TELEVISION (although it may be PBS), KRCB in Rohnert Park, California: INTERNET CAFE: UFOS 4:00 PM, (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT 7:00 PM, TBS, TOPX: CONSPIRACIES (given what this series has covered in the past, I'll be surprised if UFOs don't sneak in as a topic) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT Monday, April 14 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: alien interrogation: this is likely to be the tape we've been hearing about, such as on EDGE OF REALITY this week: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION (pet psychics); and FENG SHUI 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY: WITCHES AND VAMPIRES 10:30 PM, TBS, TOPX: CONSPIRACIES (given what this series has covered in the past, I'll be surprised if UFOs don't sneak in as a topic) Tuesday, April 15 SYNDICATED TV, MONTEL WILLIAMS: psychic Sylvia Browne...this may air tomorrow in your area SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ghosts of Seattle (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY: WITCHES AND VAMPIRES 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#15) SEANCES; DREAM THERAPY; and THE GHOST AND MRS. VIEWER (how to see spirits in your home) Wednesday, April 16 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: millenial predictions (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; and GALACTIC HUMANS (I don't know if the Heaven's Gate group was on this...I doubt it) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE--SECRETS REVEALED 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) Thursday, April 17 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: UFO activists (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE--SECRETS REVEALED 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#17): WALK THROUGH FIRE; STAR-GAZING; and SEX, DEATH, SCANDAL, AND HOLLYWOOD (or something like that) 7:00 PM, LOCAL TELEVISION (although it may be PBS), KRCB in Rohnert Park, California: INTERNET CAFE: UFOS 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA Friday, April 18 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Anne Rice(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA 2:30 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, THE NEXT STEP: includes ghost hunters 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#18) PSYCHOMETRICS; UFOS & DOLPHINS; and San Jose California's WINCHESTER MYSTERY HOUSE 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: I've got some conflicting information about what will be on, but I think it will have a men-in-black piece and one on a medium 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, THE UNEXPLAINED: crop circles, voodoo, and such This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. Search for other documents from or mentioning: bufocalvin | masinaigan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: US & UK Media From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 06:55:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:35:07 -0400 Subject: Re: US & UK Media Dear Philip, At 15:56 11/04/97 -0400, you wrote: >I wonder, can you be of some assistance? I am looking for E-mail >addresses of any media in either the USA or the UK. This can be >national or local newspapers, magazines, TV or radio. >Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated. Can I suggest you try the Editor & Publisher Directory of Online Newspapaers at http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/npaper/nphtm/online.htm They currently have 1682 online newspaper entries - Might keep you a bit busy though ;) Best wishes, John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:37:10 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:42:55 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From the UFO Museum's Insiders UFO List (has most of the major ufo top people in it...no lie..): We welcome Chris O'brien in Colo, whom we hope will now go out and FIND THAT PLANE!!! Re the BTUFO/UK, we are saddened that our good friends who were getting info on this as of march 25, did not notify us. ........ :-( ..... We are here to help you, such as UFO Mag., and others in the UK, yet, you don't tell us about this event until one bloke calls LONG DISTANCE and spends 20 pounds on the call to let us know.......almost two weeks later. Anyway, we got masses of material now, and it seems that the MOD was fast and managed to sneak out whatever was at a crash site before anyone could get to it. If such a crash happened. The farmer may not have really burned his weeds earlier - that is his story. Think of Roswell. The plane WAS videotaped later than the crash. So not that plane. Our source says his friend DID SEE A 200 FT BT/UFO. fOLLOWED BY SIX FIGHTER PLANES. UK type Tornados. Well, we lost this one. What is needed is to set up our own "Black Beret Teams" - ready to go, to get to these crashes faster than the MOD. Gear,cameras, gas, fake ID, ready to move in 4x4 jeeps, or even better, old bread vans, milk vans, as a disguise. Wear milk man uniforms. "Me, Mr soldier, just delivering the milk, now if you will please move your jeep, I'll be on me way..." Try it.. Ye editor. Now you guys in Colo - get out and find that plane!!!! In a lake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:56:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:56:14 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:37:10 GMT >X-Sender: beckjord@transbay.net >To: ufobfmuseum@value.net >From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> >Subject: BLACK TRIANGLE STORY IN UK. > From the UFO Museum's Insiders UFO List (has most of the major > ufo top people in it...no lie..): Then, would it not behoove you to make sure you supply them with the latest information, whether or not it was mailed directly to you? You'll note Erik that when you sent me the following: >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:35:14 GMT >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> >Subject: unsub > unsubscribe I didn't send _you_ an 'unsubscribe'. I read five other Lists, every day, cross-posting important information giving the originating List full attribution. > Re the BTUFO/UK, we are saddened that our good friends who were >getting info on this as of march 25, did not notify us. > ........ :-( ..... > We are here to help you, such as UFO Mag., and others in the UK, > yet, you don't tell us about this event until one bloke calls LONG DISTANCE > and spends 20 pounds on the call to let us know.......almost two weeks > later. If you were "here to help" you'd be reading all the Lists including IUFO. Had you been doing so _you_ could have saved the bloke who called you his twenty quid and not ended up posting what you did! None of we List operators can hope to have _all_ the 'hot' news land on our hard drives, that's why many of us exchange information daily. I'm not 'saddened' that original material doesn't always come to UpDates first. The important thing is to get the information out there. _That's_ why I took the trouble to send you the messages from Graham Birdsall and Andy Taylor this past Friday morning: > Re: TRIPLE URGENT:BLACK TRIANGLE UFO CRASHES IN UK >Erik, >The following is what UFO UpDates has on >the Black Triangle 'Crash'. for which by the way you are welcome, no thanks received, required or expected. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Media Enquiry From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 07:04:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:58:35 -0400 Subject: Media Enquiry The following message was sent to me on 11th April. If any reader of the list can help James will they contact him direct please? From: Features Department <Feature2@Lightspeed.net> Organization: The Fresno Bee To: john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Subject: Media inquiry X-URL: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/submit.hts Hello, My name is James S. Howard. I am a feature writer at The Fresno Bee, a newspaper in Fresno, CA. I am working on a story about UFOs, specifically sightings in the central valley of California from 1947 to the present. I have gone through our newspaper clips and spoken with Roy Yates, local MUFON coordinator. HELP! I need to find people who have had sightings or are currently researching UFOs in our area. If you know of anybody who might be willing to talk with me, please have them call me at (800)877-7300 ext. 6208. Also, if you or your organization can help me with my research, any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am not out to mock or ridicule the people or organizations involved here. I am working on a serious, noncritical story. From the research I have done, I know that there have been a number of sightings in this area and I think that would be of interest to our readers. Thanks for any help you can give. [End of original message] ========================= John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 08:19:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:14:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >Jan I would like to give a possible answer to the question >below as to why the CIA did not distroy the files. Or any >other agency for that matter. >Jan have you considered the possibility that UFO organizations >if properly managed would not be a threat to a coverup but could >be a intelligence asset. >As long as the organizations did not involve themselves in >political activity and were steered toward solving the UFO issue >as a scientific problem they could be quite helpful as >intelligence gathering assets. For instance the civilians could >be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity >that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance >methods. >Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to >gather raw data. Ed, you are quite correct. Many years ago (approximately 1984-85) I was told by Mr A. Mathewson, then head of Defence Secretariat 8 (DS8) that his office (now Secretariat Air Staff 2A - the MoDs 'UFO Desk') were particularly interested in receiving UFO reports from members of the public, police and coastguards etc, at coastline locations. This was because unusual lights out to sea or just inland could be an indicator that illegal smuggling was taking place. I've never forgotton those remarks and have repeated them during numerous lectures to bring balance to the debate. I'm convinced that what was seen as a prudent policy then, exists today, although currently the only means available to pass on verbal reports to the MoD is by way of answerphone. It's ironic that since the demise of the Royal Observer Corps, the eyes of amateur astronomers and UFO enthusiasts have to be relied upon to report the bulk of unusual aerial activity here in the UK. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK) Search for other documents from or mentioning: 106151.1150 | edkomarek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Housekeeping - Thanks Candace! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:12:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:12:21 -0400 Subject: Housekeeping - Thanks Candace! Sprint.Net who are the back-bone for many of the servers in the Toronto area, went hay-wire over the past forty hours. Consequently my server along with dozens of others have had a couple of hair-pulling days. I was to tape five UFO UpDates segments for a cable show on Saturday - featuring UFO related Web Sites. FUH! We gave up after a couple of hours of trying to connect to the five main and five back-up sites. The mail also has been a mess - it's flowing again now, you'll note. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 'Larry Jaster' Busted! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:45:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:45:20 -0400 Subject: 'Larry Jaster' Busted! The following will mean much to those who've spent the last few years wading through the 'Larry Jaster' garbage on Don Allen's 'UFO' conference on FIDO (the BBS network). For those of you muttering "huh?", please bear with us old-timers for a moment or two..... ebk ___________________________________________ Subject: Fwd: Entry to Guestbook Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 13:11:09 -0500 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@sat.net> Subject: Entry to Guestbook Sent: 4/12/97 10:01 AM Received: 4/12/97 1:07 PM From: Don Allen, dona@totcon.com You have a new entry in your guestbook: ------------------------------------------------------ Hi Pat, Good job busting Larry Jaster, who we NOW KNOW is CHARLES WHARTON. I bet Charles' church group would like to get archives of all of 'larry bud' messages. I'm sure Charles' WIFE would also like to read what her sick husband has really been doing on the computer too. In fact, every person who has been attacked by this SICKO will be notified that Charles' phone number is 713-497-7861 so they can have the pleasure of calling him up and telling him and his wife what they think of cwharton@pdq.net and his 4 year long sick messaging. In fact I would advise anyone to login to Charles' Web page at http://www/atomiccafe.com/wharton and leave him lots of email asking him why he assumed he wouldn't get caught. Larry Jaster - you screwed up and I TOLD YOU I would be there when you were busted. Now, you are going to pay the price. You wife, your kids, your employer, your church and in fact EVERYONE will know what kind of sick, perverted person you truly are and the double life you've lead is now exposed. Larry Jaster is - CHARLES WHARTON 11306 BRIAR ROSE DRIVE HOUSTON, TEXAS 77077-6432 713-497-7861 LARRY JASTER IS BUSTED! Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Deland, Fl USA - Saturday, April 12, 1997 at 10:01:24 (CDT) ------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 02:23:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:03:47 -0400 Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Greetings: > For the three people who even care I would like to > address some of the some of the basic beliefs and articles of > faith of ufology. Since when is ufology a "faith". Are you establishing it as such with you as the director of correct thought for the faithful? > For some the US intelligence agencies are sort of all > seeing all knowing gods. Am I among the some? Seems to me your strawman gods couldn't find the traitor Aldrich Ames who sabotaged American counterintelligence against the Soviets and was directly responsible for the deaths of at least a dozen Russians who worked for the United States. They are much less than gods but more than mice. They are men who like to accomplish their goals covertly, out of the publics observation. > Gee whiz books about World War II > seem to imply intelligence won the war. One of Walter > Cronkite's most famous news/history specials was "Air Power". > Air power won the war. Walk around the Field Artillery > Center at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and you will find this quote > posted all over the place: "Who won the war? The Field > Artillery won the war?--Gen George Patton." Of course, > there is the old saw that the battle isn't won until the > infantry controls the area. > Intelligence is absolutely vital, but is not infalliable. > Even with ULTRA and all the other devices, programs, > codebreakers, etc. the Allies still had major intellignece > failures. > The formation of the CIA was suppose to prevent another > Pearl Harbor. If you read the press at the time, some expressed > the worry that the CIA would be dominated by the Armed Services. > Newly promoted Rear Admiral Hillenkoetter was ranked by the > Service intelligence chiefs. If the CIA functioned the way > the agency was "sold" to Congress, there would not have been > a need for Defense Intelligence Agency. > The intelligence "comunity" is not a monolithic > structure. The intelligence sections of each agency > respond to the agency head. The are always competing > interests. The DCI is the Czar of Intelligence. A check > of history shows that is not alway so. Since the CIA was > formed there have been some intelligence coups and some real > disasters and some real abuses of power: Prague Spring, > collections of intelligence on civilians by the military, > the Fall of the Wall, the Collaspe of the Soviet Union are > a few. So just because things are not hunky-dory in the intelligence community you would have one believe that they could never have influenced or controlled the study of the UFO phenomenon. What a reach. > When we look at the military, intelligence and counter > intelligence failures are legion. B-52 raids: The North > Vietnamese knew we were coming and they knew where, but > worse of all the intelligence failures was the idea that > it did not matter. If the B-52s attacked, the roads and > infra-structure of the "damn dings" were destroyed, and this > was so noted on situation maps. Except the "damn dings"--who > were very resourceful people and not stupid peasants-- > would not despair; they simply organized battalions of > workers to fill the holes enough for a makeshift path > for bicycles and continued transporting the military > equipments and troops south over routes that were "destroyed" > on American situation maps. In Asia they have what they call > "industrial bicycles." The amount material they can transport > is truly amazing. Several people suggested bicycles for the > American "Light" Divisions. The laughter still has not > stopped. (Asked the British, Indian, and Australian troops > in Malay during World War II about the Japanese troops on > bicycles.) Here you repeat the same irrational arguement with different examples, i.e., the intelligence services always screwup, can't run an operation, are outwitted B-52 attacks, etc. Why don't you also mention that those "damn dings" had help from Soviet counterintelligence, the Soviets acquired American communications codes from their agents, the Walker family, in the US Navy. Reading encrypted communications as if they were out in the open the Soviets were able to advise their clients, the North Vietnamese, how when and where to move their troops on the Ho Chi Minh trail. So not all intelligence is useless and ineffectual, nor is it well publicized. How many national newspapers go into detail on the significance of the Walkers espionage? You have to look in the specialty literature for this. Not every intelligence operation is fantastic. > Now these are the same intelligence people that are > running a giant watertight security UFO cover up campaign > down to such low levels that just about everybody in the > military with a security clearance is involved. Here you create a fallacy of the ufo "faith" so you have something that is absurd to take potshots at. Remember some operations work and others don't. Why are you creating this strawman - make it seem absurd that the intelligence services would have an interest in the ufo phenomenon. Who except for you has said that "just about everybody in the military with a security clearance is involved". Operations are compartmentalized, many operations are run outside of the military and intelligence community by means of proprietary companies - very poplular and effective modus operandi these days. Ever hear of Air America, E-Systems, phony shipping companies, Oliver North? > We are talking about Americans here, aren't we? If you get two > together, there are three opinions on everything. So how do > you think they could run such a cover up. Are you for real? You would have people believe that the roughly 100,000 people employed in the intelligence community alone (not counting the military) with a budget estimated at roughly $40 billion can't keep any secrets? Don't have the resources available to hide a few things if they try hard? Yes we are talking Americans here, two people, three opinions and that's where it ends. You imply that a difference of opinions can be equated with an inability to keep secrets? Behave loyally? Follow the orders of the Commander in Chief? > Enough prologue on to NICAP. A number people interested > in UFOs attempted to set up a national center for > collections and evaluations of reports. How it would > operate and exactly what it would do and who would be > involved it was all up for graps. Morris Jessup and several > others had there own ideas of how it would run. The leadership > under T. T. Brown was wishy-washy. So at one meeting Keyhoe > stuck his foot in his mouth and told them all off. He ended > up running the thing. He was able enlist some of his old > military buddies some of whom had UFO experiences themselve. > The job he thought might last six months. Admiral D. S. > Fahrney had a number of technicians who reported UFOs. > Fahrney was rather active in the beginning of NICAP until > his wife took sick. Keyhoe intended his appointment would > be temporary. > NICAP started off with a grandiose schemes. General > Wedermeyer (sp?) was susposed to head the evaluation section. > Just the mention of his name brought forth some UFO reports > from people. NICAP was in debt when Keyhoe took over. > Support promised never materialized. Keyhoe promised a > bimonthly 24 page magazine, and monthly bulletin. When > NICAP fell behind the publication schedule, Keyhoe cut the > size of the publication and insisted on extending everyone's > membership until they got until they got the exact number of > pages promised. So he got no renewals for over two and half > years. By which time the more debt mounted up even more. > (Hynek and Vallee made little snipes in their books about > how much money NICAP had. Neither set foot in NICAP during > the years Hall and Keyhoe were there. They could have used > the telephone to verify this, but it appears that for ufologists > the telephone is a difficult instrument to master.) Also, > at the time NICAP had no tax examption. They had to pay > federal tax and all local and other taxes. > At the formation of NICAP there were a number of > intelligence people and even maybe some people that once > took the CIA dime. However, NICAP soon became Major Keyhoe, > Lee Munick and Rose Campbell. Please pick out the CIA agent! > Later Richard Hall replaced Lee Munick. Now pick out the CIA > agent! The Board functioned in name only during most of > Keyhoe's tenure. Edwards, Baller, and Maney were the most > active. Pick out CIA member! After the UFO Evidence," > membership and interest increase and it was possible to hire > some more staff. Keyhoe and Hall drew only part of their > salaries and were owed thousands of dollars by NICAP. > By the time of the Condon Committee the staff had swelled > to about 12. Some of the money coming in was overhead for > copying NICAP material for the Condon Committee. However, > by the time of the release of the Condon report public > interest in UFOs had receded as the War in Southeast Asia > held America's attention. Hall and Keyhoe had a split, > and Hall was trying to work himself out of a job. (Hall > was not fired per some UFO book. Again, that telephone thing...) > The Board had become more active in line with Keyhoe's, > Hall's, and Gordon Lore's wishes. When Lore became assistant > director, he saw NICAP finacial position deteriorating. He > claimed that Keyhoe turned a deaf ear to him. He then engineered > a coup to remove Keyhoe. He went to the Board and told them > they could be held responsible for NICAP debts and poor > management and they might become entangled with the IRS. > The Board gave Lore the authority to lay off most of the staff > and come up with a turn around strategy which would include > producing booklets and reports for sale and reducing overhead. > Lore's effort showed little progress so the Board removed > him and placed Stewart Nixon at the head. Well, if you had > asked Idabel Epperson, she would probably tell you that Nixon > was a CIA plant. He was about the last person to run a membership > organization, but he did get the finances under control with > ruthless help of Hartcraft, Emerson and Dewey Fournet. > They hired Acuff's {mis]management firm to run > administrative matters. In the end a former CIA employee > ended up running NICAP from his home. Once CIA, I guess, > always CIA. However, the files were not destroyed or > thrown away. CUFOS with the help of several "angels" > (mostly John Timmerman) came up with the money to buy the > files. Now if the CIA wanted to destroy NICAP why did they > not destroy the files. Why didn't the CIA destroy CUFOS? Another list reader has responded to these points. I will add, whoever said that anyone would want to destroy files? Its just raw data which proves nothing. The CIA - CUFOS question is another strawman, absurb. Hynek worked closely with the Air Force for many years, consulted with the Robertson committee. Why would they want to destroy an organization when they had a cordial past working relationship with its founder and that organizaition posed no threat. It served as another good eyes and ears public intelligence organ. Even the most casual reading about intelligence methodology Jan will reveal that the majority of intelligence information is harvested from open sources. Why kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs? This was another absurdity you created for yourself. > I have been accused of revisionist history. To revise > something there first must be a *history.* When I visited > Hall, I got an ear full! No one, has ever come to him and > asked about NICAP history. Several of the people from this > era are dead, Keyhoe, Emerson, Hartcraft, Bryan, Isabel Davis, > James McDonald, Ray Angier, Idabel Epperson, Sherman Larson, > Albert Baller, etc. However, it is still possible to talk to > Richard Hall, Ted Bloecher, George Earley, Dewey Fournet, > Gordon Lore, Diana Knopf-Sinkler, Accuf, Don Berliner, and > Stewart Nixon. To the best of Hall's and my knowledge no one has. > Todd Zeichell's little expose is based mostly on his own > ideas and imagination. He did not do much research, but > his ideas have caught on in ufology. Now I asked two of > the very thorough UFO historians, Barry Greenwood and Loren > Gross, where they got their information about the CIA and > NICAP. They both said they had not done any original research > in this area, but had just repeated what was in the literature. > The more it is repeated the better it becomes. George Knapp > at the 1994 MUFON Conference told his audience that the CIA > destroyed NICAP and APRO. Talk about revisonist history! > The Lorenzens' died without naming a sucessor. This is hardly > a CIA plot. Here you created another strawman, a CIA plot, so you could point out its absurdity. This device is getting old. Do you really have point or is it just your intention to create confusion. > Best regards, > Jan Aldrich Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 The 'Guy Kirkwood' Deal From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:01:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:18:58 -0400 Subject: The 'Guy Kirkwood' Deal FWD: Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:48:07 +0900 To: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> Subject: Re: FWD: Aftermath of Heaven's Gate: Who Is Responsible? ... I just posted this to several lists: Guy Kirkwood, who appeared on the Art Bell show claiming to be a "former Air Force F-86 Sabre Jet pilot," who in 1954 had been part of a "secret U.S. Air Force squadron tasked with chasing UFOs and photographing them," is a hoaxer, says Don Ecker, Director Research, UFO Magazine: ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kirkwood claims he had been stationed at an Air Force base in of Utah back in the mid-1950s. Dwight informed me that while on Bell's show April 9-10, he was claiming that he had been asked by Dr. Steven Greer, director of CSETI (Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence), to participate in Greer and CSETI's attempt to get Congress to hold hearings on the reality of the UFO phenomenon. Greer had been telling the UFO research community that he had a number of former military personnel ready, willing, and able to testify to Congress on the reality of UFOs, providing they had Congressional immunity. The problem with this particular "witness," Kirkwood, was that he was "pulling out" because he had received a "threat"--that if he testified, he would "be burned out," just like another Bell guest, "David John Oats." This man called Oats, who had appeared on the Bell show in the past, was involved with "reverse speech," and had worked in the UFO research field. Kirkwood claims to have daytime photos from when he was a "commercial airline pilot" and from his Air Force photo recon days that "clearly show" discs about 35 feet in diameter. Once again, Bell blew it. Kirkwood is a complete and total fraud. In 1992, UFO Magazine, in Vol. 7, No. 3, I wrote a detailed and in-depth expose on Guy Kirkwood. I detailed his other aliases "Mel Noel," and "Noall Bryce Cornwell." On UFO Magazine's website; www.ufomagazine.com you can read the complete expose we did on Kirkwood and of course other frauds in the field. Kirkwood was NEVER in the military, never an airline pilot. He was, in effect, a very small-time con artist having fun with the research community. He made it (with photo) into Timothy Good's book ABOVE TOP SECRET: The Worldwide UFO Coverup, and in the '60s was a featured speaker at UFO conferences all over the United States. So why are we so outraged, and why should Bell be ashamed? Bell claims he just puts the guests out there and leaves it up to the audience to make up their minds. Well, in this case, Whitley Strieber was once again on the air with Bell, and Bell went on and on about "the terrible abuses of a secret government" that would threaten to burn out an ex-Air Force pilot like Kirkwood who just came on to expose the truth! It is a good thing that Kirkwood did pull out. Can one imagine the embarrassment Greer and Bell would suffer if Kirkwood were to be exposed in front of Congress? As a matter of fact, at one point the Air Force contemplated filing felony charges on Kirkwood for passing himself off as an Air Force officer. ------------------------------------------------------------------ I asked David Oates to respond to this article: "I don't know anything about the Guy Kirkwood deal. All I know is he rang me after the fire and insisted on coming over to see me. I let him come - he checked out the remains of the house and then came up with this story. Next thing I know, I hear rumors that I am working with Guy Kirkwood and the FBI in catching an international ring of terrorists. Its all BULLSHIT. I was burned out by persons unknown. I am not involved with Guy Kirkwood other than I see him at conventions etc. I have NEVER spoken to the FBI. You can place this notice on whatever news service you want to dispell rumors. And FYI, we are back in business again with new offices and we should have another house by the weekend. Nothing will stop me- neither rain, nor sleet nor snow nor a bloody fire!!!!" GALAXY�S MOST WANTED http://www.sonic.net/~west/galaxy.htm ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:27:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:20:43 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' [Curtis Peebles] >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:19:54 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' >I might add to that, that the vocabulary of a regular >journalist is usually larger than those of dedicated UFO writers. Maybe in your happy little country; ours plumb new depths of semi-literacy every day. With all disrespect, Bruce W.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 DISPATCH #47 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:42:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:27:57 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #47 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #47 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 4/12/97 Quote of the Week "That's part of the continuing saga of Whitewater. The never-ending fictional conspiracy that honest-to-goodness reminds me of some people's obsession with UFOs and the Hale-Bopp comet some days.'' -Hillary Rodham Clinton, using two out of three ParaScope keywords while answering a radio interviewer's questions regarding whether former Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell was paid "hush money" to conceal his knowledge of Whitewater details. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: I HOPE THIS HELPS (MY SPELLING!) Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Henry" writes to give us details on how various alien vehicles operate. Enjoy! "THERE ARE SEVERAL POINTS OF INFORMATION I WOULD LIKE TO SEND ALONG TO THE FOLK WHO ACCESS YOUR PAGE. 1. VEHICALS WHICH SEEM TO BE ACCELERATING TO BLINDING SPEEDS AND THEN ABRUPTELY CHANGE DIRECTION ARE VIEWED AS BEING IMPOSABILE TO LIVE THROUGH. HOWEVER CONSIDER THIS. ANYONE TRAVELING IN SUCH A VEHICIAL WILL BY NESSESSITY BE WITH IN A ANTI GRAVITY OR GRAVITY MODIFING SYSTEM. WITH IN THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM YOU ARE WEIGHT LESS AS WE DISCRIBE IT AND AS SUCH HAVE NO MASS TO EITHER SPEED UP OR SLOW DOWN. HENCE IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE HOW FAST WE GO OR THE RATE AT WHICH WE SLOW DOWN. 2. CONSIDER THIS : THE VEHICALS WHICH ARE NOW BEING USED TO VISIT EARTH FROM OTHER AREAS OF LIFE ARE INDEED ALIVE THEMSELVES. THE CAN ADAPT AS NEEDED TO TRAVERCE BOTH TIME AND SPACE. I HOPE THIS HELPS." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ParaScope: A Trip Around the Sun Thursday, April 10, marked the one-year anniversary of ParaScope's launch on America Online. We're now a Members' Choice area on the AOL service and the ParaScope web site is the top destination of its kind for web-surfing fans of conspiracies, UFOs and the paranormal. Watch both sites throughout the next week for special features we'll be running, including "The Best of ParaScope: Year One." Thanks to those of you who've been with us since the start, and a big thank-you and welcome to all our new friends as well. Just wait till you see what we've got in store for year two! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Chat About Conspiracies in the Crop Circle on the Web What's the latest conspiracy? Who blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building? Did the FBI know of a bomb threat ahead of time? Who or what brought TWA Flight 800 down? Is James Earl Ray innocent of assassinating Martin Luther King? Join us in ParaScope's web-based virtual chat room, the Crop Circle, Saturday, April 12 at 9pm ET as we discuss recent conspiracy news. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A Taxing Time of Year Find us someone who rejoices in paying their yearly income taxes, and we'll show you someone who needs a lobotomy. Sure, everyone hates taxes, but we know that you ParaScope folks hate it with that little extra bit of passion because you know it's such a fraud. Just in case you missed it, get a last look at the Great American Tax Swindle. On AOL, you'll find it at keyword: aol://4344:926.taxesxx.1340783.539776042 On the web, it is at: http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/tax_in.htm Finally, we leave you with this "bonus quote" for the tax season: "In a recent conversation with an official at the Internal Revenue Service, I was amazed when he told me that, 'If the Taxpayers of this country ever discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff, the entire system would collapse.'" --Sen. Henry Bellmon (1969) -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Crash & Burn With ParaScope in Roswell One year after Independence Day, UFO researchers and enthusiasts from around the country and around the world will be gathering in Roswell, NM to mark a more significant anniversary. It's been 50 years this summer since the infamous Roswell incident, and a giant week-long extravaganza of events is planned to mark the occasion. ParaScope is planning to turn out in force, and we'd like to see every one of our readers, fans, chat room regulars and even our detractors te, planetarium show, film festival, crash site tours, and symposium. For more details or to reserve your space, don't delay! Write to pscplegend@aol.com and put "roswell rendezvous" in your subject line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, April 14: Chuck Shramek -- Prankster Extraordinaire As we all know, Chuck Shramek's claims that he had photographed a "Saturn-like companion object" travelling with Comet Hale-Bopp sparked a nationwide flash-fire of paranoia over what was soon proven to be nothing more than an ordinary star. But according to a man who says he's an old high school buddy of Shramek's, the whole thing may well have been a grand prank to begin with. Greg Frost shares his teenage adventures with the SLO-man, from the helium/dry cleaner bag UFO hoaxes to his ham radio "Zontar the Warp Master" pranks to his tin-foil clad alien escapades. ------------------------- Tuesday, April 15: InTERRORgation -- An In-Depth Look Sure, your tax dollars are wasted on lots of stupid stuff like studies of the mating habits of brain-damaged cleft-snouted tree sloths, or bridges that cross rivers where nobody travels. But what about a manual on how to terrorize, intimidate and bully folks to get them to sing. Everyone knows the Nazis had "ways of making you talk," but ParaScope presents an in-depth look and final installment in our exclusive, ground-breaking series on the CIA's handbook on "inTERRORgation." Don't miss it. ------------------------- Wednesday, April 16: Riot Breaks Out After Rabin Assassination Lecture A riot erupted on March 30 following a lecture at Hebrew University by Israeli journalist Barry Chamish, who discussed his ideas on a conspiracy to assassinate Yitzhak Rabin. But with the chaos came an intense rush of media attention, propelling the issue into public view. Was Rabin's assassin manipulated into position by the Shabak? Once a matter of concern only to the underground media, the mainstream Israeli media is finally turning its attention to one of the most troubling questions of our time. As violence rocks the region, the questionable events leading to Rabin's murder take an even darker tone. ------------------------- Thursday, April 17: Let's Do Lunch! (Applesauce and Martinis.) Call My People! Think you've heard the last word on Heaven's Gate and the weird, wacky stories behind their rise to fame (or infamy)? Think again. The ParaScope research team has turned up some weird and downright bamboozling connections between the members of the original cast of the Heaven's Gate TV movie. That's right, there already was a TV movie about Marshall Applewhite and his band of offbeat followers. "Mysterious Two" ran on NBC in the early 80s, and would you believe that cast members included actors who starred in episodes of Star Trek, The X-Files, The Twilight Zone and quite a few other weird and highly unlikely connections? Is it all part of Hollywood conspiracy to prime us for the impending landing of our space brethren, or just a cosmic coincidence? Either way, it's pretty funny. Check out the schlocking story next week! ------------------------- Friday, April 18: Waco Remembered -- A Retrospective of Shame On the eve of the anniversary of the Waco tragedy, ParaScope presents a comprehensive look at everything we know (and much that most people DON'T know) about the horrifying events at Mt. Carmel. Gathered in one place will be the most extensive collection ever of information about the incident. You won't want to miss our look back at this American tragedy, and our look ahead at what it means for the rest of us. Learn why for a generation of Americans the Mt. Carmel fiasco has become a rallying cry: Remember Waco! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Want to help change the world, or at least a little corner of the online world? Here's your chance. Check out the following positions at ParaScope: CyberSuperParaSleuths Investigating and reporting on the unknown world of the paranormal is a demanding job, so we're demanding you get involved and volunteer to write for ParaScope. If you have talent and experience in writing and reporting, as well as strong investigative and research skills, then you may be up to the challenge of writing for ParaScope's Enigma section, covering fortean phenomena, unexplained events and just plain weird stuff. If you've got a taste for the offbeat, send your resume, a strong writing sample and few details about your personal interests in the paranormal to Enigma Editor D. Trull at pscptrull@aol.com. Be sure to put "enigma writer" in the subject of your letter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you�re not? Starting to think you�ve made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we�re only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That�s all there is to it! Likewise, if you�ve received this e-mail from a friend and you�d like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | pscplegend |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:26:30 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? Gary [Levy] writes: > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:34:44 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: First Use of the term "flap" > I would like to locate the first use of the term "flap" in the UFO > literature. If anyone has a reference for this or is familiar > with how this term came to be applied please email me. I've seen a lot of discussion about the word "flap", obscure references to early works, and even a mention of Edward J. Ruppelt, but no mention that it was in his book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects", (Copyright 1956) that he not only defined the term "flap" as applying to UFO's, but in fact devoted a whole chapter to it (Chapter Eleven). To quote from his book, pages 187-188: "In Air Force terminology a "flap" is a condition, or situation, or state of being of a group of people characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite yet reached panic proportions. It can be brought on by any number of things, including the unexpected visit of an inspecting general, a major administrative reorganization, the arrival of a hot piece of intelligence information, or the dramatic entrance of a well-stacked female into an officers' club bar." "In early June 1952 the Air Force was unknowingly in the early stages of a flap - a flying saucer flap - the flying saucer flap of 1952." John Koopmans
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:04:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:27:44 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? At 05:08 PM 4/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) >To: area51@lists.best.com >cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com >Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? [text deleted] >This very same thing is going on in the UFO field. Not only do we have >intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse >the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both >the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. >The best, Ed Komarek ORTK I think it was Arthur C. Clarke who noted that phenomenon we don't understand is often considered to be "magic". Science is not prepared to begin acknowledging that which appears to be "magic", and finds it easier to ignore. As with most other facets of society, there is also a bureaucratic factor in the scientific community that helps to stifle such acceptance. It's a complicated situation. Peace, Steve
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 18:20:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:25:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:42:41 +0100 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Perhaps you did not see my early posts. Greenwood no long supports this theory. > NICAP History > "The UFO Cover-UP" by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry J. Greenwood (1984) > During NICAP's first year of exstence under it's original founder, T. > Townshend Brown, several mysterous persons managed to fit themselves > into NICAP's structure. One, named Nicolas de Rochefort, was a Russian > immigrant who, among other jobs, wrote scripts in French and Russian > for the Voice of America. He was also employed by the Psychological > Warfare Staff of the CIA. De Rochefort became NICAP's Vice-Chairman, > alongside Brown. Another NICAP staffer in 1956 was a man named Bernard > J.O. Carvalho, a native of Portugal, who was also involvd in CIA-owned > companies (secretly owned, that is). Perhaps the involvement of two CIA > employees was not all that mysterious. After all, T. Townshend Brown's > leadership of NICAP was short lived and, in fact, ended near the end of > 1956. These people disappeared early on and had no influence when NICAP became operational under Major Keyhoe took over. > Well-known UFO authority Major Donald Keyhoe managed to beef up NICAP's > prestige by looking for and appointing prominent people to NICAP's > Board of Governors. One of the first board appointees was Vicie Admiral > Roscoe Hillenkoetter, a Naval Academy classmate of Keyhoe's and the > first Director of the CIIA, when it formed in 1947. Hillenkoetter made > a number of positive statements on UFO reality, thus endearing himself > to Keyhoe. This relationship reversed itself, however, when Keyhoe > developed NICAP into a fierce opponent of government secrecy and pushed > for Congressioinal hearings in the early 1960s. Hillenkoetter abruptly > resigned from NICAP, expressing the opinion that NICAP went as far as > it could go, and no further criticism should be aimed at the Air Force > for its handling of UFOs. > It can probably be surmised that Hillenkotter was pressured out of NICAP > by the CIA, since it was of considerable embarrassment to the CIA to > have a former Director making pro-UFO statements. Surmises are fine, but why did it take Hillenkoetter so long to resign? He could have easily resigned earlier when Fahrney left. Have no definite facts one answer is as good as another. Hillenkoetter was never was very active in NICAP. His big contribution was his name. > > Further evidence of CIA influence in NICAP developed during the period > immediately before NICAP's decline. On December 3, 1969, Donald Keyhoe > was ousted as NICAP's Director during a Board meeting. Who led the > effort to remove Keyhoe? The Chairman of the Board, Col. Joesph Bryan, > former Chief of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff (1947-1953). And > who replaced Keyhoe? John Acuff, who was the head of the Society of > Photographic Scientists and Engineers (SPSE), a frequent target of > Russian spying attempts and a group that had many members involved in > Defense Department intelligence units, including the CIA. His > management of NICAP was financially "tight' (in the cheap sense) and > totally inept in a research sense. Here is another myth. NICAP never spent much money of "research." Most research was provide by members, technicians and specialists for free. If you could find Keyhoe's and Hall's books, you would also see little or no expenditures in this area. > Criticism of government UFO policy > was gone, and NICAP merely served as a sighting collection center. > Acuff's management drove loyal NICAP Board members away and ultmately > led to Acuff's downfall in 1978. > This above account is not accurate. Leadership of NICAP went > from Keyhoe to Lore to Nixon to Acuff and finally to Hall. Letters cited in previous posts and conversations with the some of the people involved do not support this version of events idea. There are still plenty of people who should be talked to and correspondence looked at. As I wrote in a private conversation perhaps if someone talked Diane Sinkler she may say something like, "That worm, Staurt Nixon, was alway bragging his intelligence connections." > Who replaced Acuff? None other than Alan Hall, a retired CIA employee, > who accepted the position after a number of other CIA employees were > offered the job. Support for Hall from the NICAP Board came from > Charles Lombard, an aide to Senator Goldwater and former CIA covert > employee. Former or retire are important words here. I don't understand Alan Hall's role is this. Richard Hall does think that he had some active CIA connects. Richard Hall also thinks that Stuart Nixon was CIA connected, however Hall could not explain why NICAP's files were not destroyed. > NICAP eventually became so ineffective that it was dissolved, and the > group's UFO files were absorbed by the Center for UFO Studies in > Evanston, Illinois. So the CIA wanted NICAP's material, but then let it fall into CUFOS' hands? > There certainly seems to be a pattern behind NICAP's destruction. Is it > a coincidence that so many ex-CIA people became deeply involved in the > operation of NICAP? It is possible that the CIA wanted to influence > NICAP activities for several reasons: > 1) To gather intelligence through NICAP's investigators network. > 2) To identify and plug leaks from government soures (NICAP was > renowned for receiving military-oriented reports). > 3) To monitor other hostile intelligence agencies (NICAP received > several overtures from the Soviet KGB). If these were goals of the CIA, then they would have put money into NICAP and strengthen the subcommitee system. The opposite is true. So how were these goals to be meet? > After Acuff's bungled management of NICAP, the CIA may have felt that > NICAP's effectiveness as a "front" was gone and allowed it to be taken > over by CUFOS. > Speculation? Yes, but not without justification, as one can clearly > read. A new question now arises. Would the same thing happen to another > UFO group that became effective and efficient? We can only watch for > the signs. > The structure of CAUS underwent changes (not CIA-induced!) in the > 1980s. Peter Gersten became its new Director, with Lawrence Fawcett as > Assistant Director. A Board of Advisors was formed, containing > well-known names in UFO research such as Raymond Fowler, Stanton > Freidman, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, and others. The focus, to this day, > continues to be the release of government documents on UFOs, although > pressure by the Reagan Administration to restrict the Freedom of > Information Act may hamper the work of CAUSE in this area. > It is important that the public become involved in the search at this > time. To prevent further dissolution of the FOIA, we urge ccitizens to > write to their elected officials telling them to support the free flow > of government information, particularly about UFOs. Use this book as a > source of documented evidence. Make copies of the reports and send them > to your Senators and Congressmen. CAUS has been effective in obtaining > new data, but there is strength in numbers. The more support behind > CAUS's efforts to inform the public, the better off both the public and > CAUS will be. It is important that ufologists examine and re-examine what they think they know about the ufo situation instead of repeating as if by rote these nice little neat speculations. Perhaps some one will get angry "with that crazy Aldrich," and say I'll say, "I show him proof his version of events is wacko." There are a lot of question about the demise of NICAP that are not clear. It would be nice if some of the major players were talked to before they die. involved at the time, before they die,
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: Cathy Johnson <rfsignal@M3.SPRYNET.COM> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:09:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:30:37 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 4/11/97 5:08 PM: > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) > To: area51@lists.best.com > cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com > Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? > Science relys on the repeatable and controlled expermental process. This > works fine in the lab and with things that are of lesser intelligence than > the expermenter. I submit that science fails when it is applied to equal or > higher intelligence. I tend to think of science as a lot of test tubes a nd stuff. What science has failed to find is the logical reason for all kinds of anomalies, like back ground radiation in landing areas (Walton) and scars on people that weren't there before the event (Velez) and unusual memories of sequences of events in their entirety (myself) and a lot of other circumstancial evidence. What does science say about any of this? > There are many in the UFO community who think that science can solve the UFO > problem with scientific solutions. I think they are wrong. 1. It is > obvious that the UFO problem has developed into a political problem because > there is a coverup and so is deserving of political solutions. 2. The UFO > problem is a intelligence problem as the intelligence agencys know full well. > A approach from a intelligence perspective can yield understanding of this > issue. I agree with you on the complexities of the many aspects of the UFO Phenomenon as it is being dealt with by various aspects of humanity. > Let me give an example as to why science can't deal well with intelligent > phenomenon. I was talking to a marine biologist friend of mine the other > day. He gave me an example. The example of the octopus is great. It does indicate an intelligent lifeform that is interacting with humanity. Taking this a step further to apply the same observations to the alien presence is really the beginning. Only when we can tell them we know that they know in terms that they will notice is only the beginning. At this point in time, we are not of any real value to them and they won't bother to take notice. They still tag us the same way we tag fish. Are fish intelligent? Are we intelligent? Will we ever tag aliens? When abduction cases are singled out, it means very little in value to any analysis of the whole picture. When sightings are highlighted, only one aspect of the whole phenomenon can be presented. It has to come that all of the available evidence is combined to begin to form a picture of the extent that the UFO Phenomenon does affect all of humanity. There has to be an end to the coverups, the hoaxes and all of the rest of the mythology that has become associated with the UFO Phenomenon. Sure its nice to be able to see hoaxes and fiction for what it is. But the entire subject is so ripe that something has to be done. Its not important whether any one picture or video or abduction story is factual or not. What is important is how we conduct ourselves as we try to get to the bottom of it all.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 The Continually Amazing Richard Hoagland - Europa From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:04:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:04:11 -0400 Subject: The Continually Amazing Richard Hoagland - Europa Original Europa Thesis Just Too Alien by Terence Dickinson The Sunday Star - Toronto, April 13, 1997 Context Section, page F8 At a news conference Wednesday, NASA scientists presented the latest images from the Galileo spacecraft that is in orbit around Jupiter. The photos, showing yawning cracks and blocks of ice the size of house on Jupiter's moon, Europa, offer the most compelling evidence yet that there is an ocean of water, possibly harboring life, beneath the frozen surface of this world, which is roughly the size of the Earth's moon. It's a strange story, but 18 years ago I was there when the first person on Earth realised what Europa is really like. It was July 10, 1979, just hours after the American space probe Voyager 2 had cruised near Jupiter and its family of 16 moons. I was standing beside science writer Richard Hoagland at Voyager mission control at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, gazing intently at one of the television monitors displaying Voyager 2 images of Europa. Nobody had ever seen anything like Europa before, Instead of the usual cratered landscape, Europa's surface is smooth, like a billiard ball. The highest resolution images did reveal some detail - low ridges and linear features covering the surface in apparently random patterns - but at first glance it was baffling. Then Hoagland said, almost in a whisper, "Its a crust of ice. And there's water below it." He stood there, thinking about what he had just said, then asked me if I would be interested in an article on the idea. At the time, I was editor of 'Star & Sky', an American popular-level astronomy magazine that has long since ceased publication. I readily accepted. Later, as he was working on the article, Hoagland phoned me from his home in Oakland, California, to tell me, with growing enthusiasm, about how all the pieces fit. Europa, he said, had a rocky core that was heated by gravitational tugging from Jupiter's three other large moons. As those moons swung close to Europa, then retreated, the varying gravitational forces squeezed and relaxed the rocky core, heating it in the process. This, he said, would melt the icy crust that apparently cloaks the Jovian moon. Only the outer surface, which is exposed to the intense cold of space, remains frozen. The ocean below could easily contain more water than is in Earth's oceans. And like in Earth's oceans, he went on, life could exist near volcanic vents. Hoagland's ideas about Europa appeared as the cover story in the January, 1980, issue of 'Star & Sky'. Given the potential importance of the concept, I issued a news release to coincide with the issue's publication. It was picked up by all the major news services and the story ran in hundreds of newspapers. It appeared in 'The Toronto Star' on December. 27, 1979, under the headline 'By Jupiter! Maybe there is alien life in space'. Then, instead of Hoagland's ideas appearing in textbooks, NASA brochures and other publications about the solar system, they were ignored. Today, Hoagland almost never receives credit for his Europa work. Why? He was never part of establishment science and he has moved much further from it than he was back in 1979. Today, he champions the idea that aliens built a rock formation called the 'face' on Mars. Few scientists want to be even remotely associated with a "kook", no matter how brilliant his ideas. EOA (Terence Dickinson is editor of 'Skynews Magazine' and the author of several guidebooks for backyard astronomers)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:44:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:20:08 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap'? > From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: First Use of the term 'flap'? > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:55:31 -0400 (EDT) > Gary [Levy] writes: > > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:34:44 -0500 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > > To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: First Use of the term "flap" > > I would like to locate the first use of the term "flap" in the UFO > > literature. If anyone has a reference for this or is familiar > > with how this term came to be applied please email me. > I've seen a lot of discussion about the word "flap", obscure references > to early works, and even a mention of Edward J. Ruppelt, but no mention > that it was in his book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects", > (Copyright 1956) that he not only defined the term "flap" as applying to > UFO's, but in fact devoted a whole chapter to it (Chapter Eleven). > To quote from his book, pages 187-188: > "In Air Force terminology a "flap" is a condition, or situation, or state > of being of a group of people characterized by an advanced degree of > confusion that has not quite yet reached panic proportions. It can be > brought on by any number of things, including the unexpected visit of an > inspecting general, a major administrative reorganization, the arrival > of a hot piece of intelligence information, or the dramatic entrance of a > well-stacked female into an officers' club bar." > "In early June 1952 the Air Force was unknowingly in the early stages of > a flap - a flying saucer flap - the flying saucer flap of 1952." > John Koopmans Thanks John, For those of you who pick up a copy of Ruppelt's report and can't find the above quotation please note that in the Fieldcrest Publishing 1965 reprint edition of the 1956 book the pagination is different. The above quote is on page 141 of Chapter eleven (The Big Flap). Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:19:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:49:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 08:19:22 -0400 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: EdKomarek@aol.com > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:42:35 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP [snip] > For instance the civilians could > >be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity > >that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance > >methods. > >Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to > >gather raw data. > Well, the events after the "so-called NICAP take over do > not bear this out. > Ed, you are quite correct. Many years ago (approximately 1984-85) > I was told by Mr A. Mathewson, then head of Defence Secretariat 8 > (DS8) that his office (now Secretariat Air Staff 2A - the MoDs > 'UFO Desk') were particularly interested in receiving UFO reports > from members of the public, police and coastguards etc, at coastline > locations. > This was because unusual lights out to sea or just inland could be > an indicator that illegal smuggling was taking place. I've never > forgotton those remarks and have repeated them during numerous > lectures to bring balance to the debate. I'm convinced that what > was seen as a prudent policy then, exists today, although currently > the only means available to pass on verbal reports to the MoD is by > way of answerphone. > It's ironic that since the demise of the Royal Observer Corps, the eyes of Of the three observer organizations, the Royal Observer Corps, US Aircraft Warning Service (AWS)-Ground Observer Corps (ca 1940 to 1944) and the Ground Observer Corps (GOC) (ca 1950 to 1957 (1958 in Canada)), the Royal Observer Corps was the most sucessful and most respected. I would urge UK researchers to try to find the records of the ROC. Some US GOC UFO reports are in the 4602 Air Intelligence Service Squadron (AISS) UFO records. But certainly not the hundreds that the Civil Defense Directors in Delaware and Baltimore, Maryland talk about in press stories in 1954. Carl Fiendt has reviewed huge amounts of state records in Delaware looking for GOC logs or National Guard records to confirm these news stories. So far no luck. Unfortunately many GOC observers reported stars and planets as unidentifieds. The 4602d AISS had no respect for the GOC. Some minor references I have say that the AWS had many observer reports that were never identified--about 30%. I received a report from a former AWS observer on the West Coast. In the Summer of 1943 she was a young girl and on duty with an adult. On their shift they had never seen a thing. One morning they saw a cigar-shaped object which they reported. They saw it again some days later. The filter center personnel angrily told them they had recieved numerous reports of the object, they didn't know what it was, but not to report it again. Great!! Sound like confirmation of the lead. I have about four AWS UFO-like sightings. My experience in Connecticut and North Carolina indicates that AWS files and records may exist in the state Civil Defense records for the War World II period. > amateur astronomers and UFO enthusiasts have to be relied upon to In the early 1950's Hynek tried to organized a fireball/UFO reporting network using amateur astronomers and the GOC Filter Centers. While he was promised cooperation, he had only minor success. > report the bulk of unusual aerial activity here in the UK. Best regards, Jan Aldrich Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | 106151.1150 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: First Use of the term 'flap' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:33:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:46:55 -0400 Subject: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:53:47 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:03:36 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: First Use of the term 'flap' > > > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:29:57 -0400 > > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > > > To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: A use of the term flap > [snip] > You are correct it is not a seamless command controlled organization, > nor is it all knowing and infallible - those would be characteristics of > a religious organization not an intelligence agency. However Jan the > intelligence agencies are not incompetent and incapable of mounting > effective counterintelligence operations, e.g. the Paul Bennewitz > affair; there are also other examples too. Can you explain why the UFO > histories don't discuss the sighting of renknowned World War II fighter > ace pilot Richard Rankin. Gary, I would love to know about Rankin being questioned before Arnold's 24 June sighting--especially in light of COL Friend's 00letter in JUFOS #5. However, your contention that Rankin's sighting has not been treated in UFO histories is wrong. If you can find a copy of Bloecher's REPORT OF THE UFO WAVE OF 1947, you will see it in there. Still available from Arcturus Books is Loren Gross' UFO HISTORY VOLUME 1: 1947, please consult page 49 for Rankin sighting. In the 4th Air Force UFO files it appears that Air Force investigators could not find Rankin. On the 10th of July 1947, the Continential Air Command (ConAC) requested that 4th Air Force find and interview both Arnold and Rankin. After some time, 4th AF seems unable to locate Rankin. At the end of July, ConAC repeated its request. On the 11th of August, 4th Air Force found and interviewed Rankin. I think the FBI may have already been there first, but all the intelligence agencies on the west coast seem to cooperate well, and the records indicate that the FBI agents there were probably continued to be more involved than Hooever's directive decreed. Without making this a major research project, it is possible that other investigators talked to Rankin after Arnold sighting, but before 4th Air Force. Information that pins down an investigation *before* Arnold's sighting would be of great interest indeed. He was debriefed by military intelligence > agents after his sighting which occurred long before Kenneth Arnold's. His sighting occurred before Arnold, however, the investigation of his sighting did not from all information I have. If you have something > > > Ernest Volkman is an "acknowledged authority on espionage and > > > intelligence. Formerly a prize-winning investigative reporter for > > > Newsday and executive editor of Espionage magazine". He has made media > > > appearances on Nightline, CNN, and the Today show as an expert in the > > > field. I found Volkman's exposition on the term "flap" in his book > > > Espionage (pp.177) in a discussion of terminology used in a particular > > > branch of the intelligence community (the Central Intelligence Agency, > > > CIA). > > The term flap is military slang an probably pre-dates the CIA. The > > only way to really determine when the word came into general usage > > is to look a some of the more free wheeling unit newspaper or news > > sheets and see when the word appeared in print. Stars and Stripes > > or the wartime magazine in Europe might have the term. No doubt > > there are books on military slang. > What does probably pre-dates the CIA mean? What I have found so far is > that the meaning used by the CIA as it applies to ufology seems to have > been introduced around in the 1950s. I also don't see how you can > equate the slang used in the military with the slang used in the > intelligence services. > > > "As with all other areas of human endeavor, espionage is subject to > > > Murphy's Law, which dictates that what can go wrong, will. CIA > > > officials like to call it "flap", the distressing tendency of certain > > > major intelligence operations to go badly awry, too often with the kind > > > of spectacular explosion that tends to attract a lot of public (and > > > unwelcome) attention." > > > Interesting? Maybe someone reading UFOupdates will know how, when and > > > by whom this term was introduced into ufology. Significance - possibly > > > none. > > > However, it is worthwhile noting that in 1956 Edward J. Ruppelt (Former > > > Head of the United States Air Force Project Blue Book) mentioned in his > > > book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects" an intelligence > > > insiders phrase - "puzzle palace" (see pp. 137). It would not be until > > > almost 25 years later that it would become known that this phrase was > > > the insiders nickname for the National Security Agency (NSA), it was > > > also known as No Such Agency. > > Bamford appropriated this GI slang for his book title. Every GI > > knows that the "Puzzle Palace" is the next higher headquarters > > (i. e. they have have know idea of what they are doing.) So > > Ruppelt is not using some secret code here. (No doubt insiders > > at the NSA called themselve or were called the puzzle palace.) > > The phase was in common use when I joined the military, > > and it did not refer to the NSA. > > The ultimate puzzle palace is the Pentagon which Ruppelt's usage > > in his book. If you read Ruppelt's reference incontext you > > will see he is referring to HQ, USAF, Intelligence > > and Information offices. Also, the NSA was not formed until > > after the time period in which Ruppelt uses this phrase. > NO. Ruppelt carelfully distinguishes between the Pentagon and the > "puzzle palace". Oh and where did you get the idea that the NSA was not > formed until after the time period in which Ruppelt uses this phrase? > Ruppelt was talking about his experiences in May 1952 and the NSA was > established in 1952. Why do I say in 1952 because interestingly James > Bamford has this to say regarding the date set for its birth, it "was > most likely designed for maximum secrecy; should any hint of its > creation leak out, it would be surely swallowed up in the other news of > the day - the presidential election of 1952". Bamford also mentions > that although the agency was obstensibly born on 12:01 November 4, 1962 > that when it was "established" it already had a new director, NUMEROUS > buildings and over TEN THOUSAND employees. Jan you either need to get > better sources of information or stop passing off this mis or dis > information. To my knowledge Truman's seven page memo which established > the NSA has still never been declassified. A lot of interesting > historical analysis may play on the real date of its establishment. If > you have a copy of that memo send it to me. As you point out the NSA was formed on 4 Nov 1952. The Ruppelt reference you cite refers to the summer of 1952 at the beginning of the 1952 Wave. I suggest you read the context of the Ruppelt again. My military brainwashed mind does not get your version of events out of what Ruppelt says here. Yes, the NSA could have been in existance before 4 November 1952. How about 1946? Maybe they caused the ghost rockets, or 1941, 1933, 1897, 1066. What evidence do you have??? > > > For those who would like to convince others that the intelligence > > > community was not involved in the investigation of UFOs, lets look as > > > far back as the early 1950s and note the following. Speaking about his > > > work in 1952 Ruppelt says (pp 137)(Chapter Ten - Project Blue Book and > > > the Big Build-Up): > > > "All of these inquiries from the press were adding to Blue Book's work > > > load and to my problems. Normally a unit such as ATIC has its own > > > public relations officer, but we had none so I was it. I was being > > > quoted quite freely in the press and was repeatedly being snarled at by > > > someone in the Pentagon. It was almost a daily occurence to have people > > > from the 'puzzle palace' call and indignantly ask, 'Why did you tell > > > them that?' They usually referred to some bit of information that > > > somebody didn't think should have been released. I finally gave up and > > > complained to Colonel Dunn. I suggested that any contacts with the > > > press be made through the Office of Public Information in the Pentagon. > > > These people were trained and paid to do this job; I wasn't. Colonel > > > Dunn heartily agreed because every time I got chewed out he at least got > > > a dirty look." > > > There it is folks, Ruppelt, the head of the Air Force's Blue Book was > > > being told almost daily what to say or not say by the people in the > > > "puzzle palace" - the NSA. > > No, the NSA did not exist then! > ABSOLUTELY WRONG see the above and see the information below. >I see nothing there that says the NSA existed prior to >November 1952 long after the incident that Ruppelt talked >about. > > Regards, > Jan the following is taken from the NSA homepage. They seem to think > that they were established in 1952, although they are rather vague as to > when, which is within the timeframe Ruppelt is talking about. If they > think so why don't you especially since you seem familiar with Bamford's > book. What point are you trying to make by revising history? > >From The NSA Homepage: > http://www.nsa.gov > About NSA > Establishment of NSA > NSA was established by Presidential directive in 1952 as a separately > organized agency within the Department of Defense (DoD). In this > directive, President Truman designated the Secretary of Defense as > Executive Agent for the signals intelligence and communications security > activities of the Government. The Agency was charged with an additional > mission, information systems security for national security systems, in > a 1984 Presidential directive, and with an operations security training > mission in a 1988 Presidential directive. Under a 1986 law, NSA became a > combat support agency of > the DoD. > NSA/CSS > < snip > > NSA's Role in the Intelligence Community > > How does NSA fit into the larger U.S. intelligence picture? The nation's > Intelligence Community (IC) is actually a coordinated network of people > and organizations, all working together to keep decision makers informed > and the country secure. The President, as Commander-in-Chief, has the > final authority over all intelligence collection and analysis. > > The National Security Council, a group of appointed senior officials, > assists the President in formulating foreign policy and intelligence > priorities. The Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) is responsible > for directing and coordinating the diverse activities of all the > U.S. intelligence organizations. The National Security Act of 1947 > designates the DCI as the primary adviser on national foreign > intelligence to the President and National Security Council. To > discharge these duties, the DCI serves both as head of the > Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and of the IC. The IC has > representation from 13 intelligence agencies, including > intelligence functions in the DoD, Departments of Justice (DoJ), > Treasury, Energy, and State, and the CIA. > While not a military organization, NSA is one of several elements > of the IC administered by the DoD. The Defense Intelligence Agency > provides military intelligence and coordinates intelligence > activities of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. The CIA is an > independent organization whose primary responsibilities include > covert collection of foreign intelligence and conducting > counterintelligence efforts abroad. The FBI is responsible for > counterintelligence efforts within the U.S. > End of NSA Homepage http://www.nsa.gov > Just the facts, I see no facts here. Generalizations, yes. What from the fore- going: what says that the NSA existed prior to the 4 November 1952?? Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Interesting articles of note From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:56:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:05:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Interesting articles of note Just thought this article at the Washington Post's site was worth mentioning: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/daily/april/13/fictions.htm If you haven't overloaded on "Heaven's Gate" information: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/cult.htm and today an article from Joel Achenbach http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-04/13/047L-041397-idx.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:27:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:58:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > [snip] > >If the "take over" people wanted to, as you say, develop a > >good investigative/observation operation, then the thing to > >do was to pour money into a captive NICAP and keep their > >outstanding investigative network going. > Jan do you think that anybody is going to admit they were a mole in civilian > UFO organization. Of course, not if such a mole exist. Is Zechel's version of events correct? I was around about the time all this was happening certainly didn't look that way to me. In fact Zechel version is wrong about how certain events unfolded. No one was has gone to major players to find out what was going on. My main research objective is *not* the demise of NICAP. I ran across numerous letters from the major players that tell a far different story. I have asked a number of knowledgeable people who were around at the time about what happened. There is evidence (not proof) for some type of destruction campaign with Staurt Nixon and the subcommittee system. Idabel Epperson complained to Dick Hall that Nixon was writing insulting letters to LANS members. She pointed to Nixon as wanting to destroy NICAP's subcommitee network. The Connecticut NICAP Affiliate dropped out of NICAP as I understand it because Nixon told George Earley with NICAP's tax-exemption the Affiliates and Subcommittees would have to submit copious records to the IRS. Hall later told me that such an IRS requirement was bogus and did not exist. So if you want to nominate Stuart Nixon as the destruction agent of NICAP, I will go along. Now whether he was a plant or just incompetent is up for grabs. BTW NICAP did not just go into a complete decline. They did have a little recover in the early 1970s and attracted back many of the people who left when Keyhoe was ejected. There salad days were over, however. > Look what happened to Bill Moore when he fessed up. If Bill Moore said the sun was shining outside, I would go outside twice to check. What makes you think his "confession" is any more valid than anything else he said. > I am sure you know that solid evidence in a inteligence game is extremely > difficult to find if at all. We must all fly by the seat of our pants. So we should always suspect intelligence meddling and never look for other causes for events??? And if we find other causes for events, we should not prusue them??? > If I > get intelligence that there is a machine gun nest on the other side of the > hill don't you think I am going to fly with that information rather than wait > for the solid evidence to hit me in the chest. > I am sure you remember the quote atributed to Hillenkoettner. Something to > the effect that he had gone as far as he could. Well it was very obvious > that congressional hearings were causing quite a stir. Keyhoe gets the boot, > NICAP disintegrates, then that air force swamp gas debunker Hynek suddenly > makes a conversion and pushes for scientific investigations into UFOs. I think your assessment of Hynek is wrong. Early on he when to France to look at the 1954 wave and recorded a number of interviews with witnesses. He met with Aime Michel during this trip. During the middle 1950s, he would meet with Civilian Saucer Intelligence (CSI (NY)). He was very worried about someone seeing him do this, however. Isabel Davis told me when he came he would have his hat pull down over his eyes and his raincoat collar pulled up to his ear when he arrived at the door. Isabel called him "that timid little man." [If you ask Dr. Fred Beckman, a good friend of Hynek's, he will tell you that this was completely out of character for Hynek and he would never act in such a manner.] In any case notes from these meetings indicates Hynek brought summaries of USAF cases which Ted Bloecher hurried hand copied while the others pressed Hynek for details of cases and investigations. He would also ask them for current CSI cases. Ted wrote a lot of inquiries to the Air Force on specific cases about this time 1954-56. I suspect that the main source of Ted's inquiries was Hynek summaries given to CSI in these meetings. Hynek had one meeting with NICAP personnel--but not at the office. It was at a private home. It was not very successful as an astronomy graduate student who had been taking LSD flipped out and started spouting gibberish. No very conducive to good impressions on Hynek's side. McDonald agreed with your impression of Hynek for a while. They should have been natural allies, however, McDonald continued to bash Hynek. One exchange of letter has Hynek asking when this was going to end, and McDonald answering that not for a long while because Hynek unwillingness to go public years before. Interestingly enough, Hynek had in his files the original copy of a UFO sighting made by McDonald and a number of other scientists and submitted to the USAF in 1954. Hynek did not turn the argument around on McDonald. > I think Hynek skillfuly diverted the UFO community away from solving a > political problem, ie a coverup, with political solutions. Hynek was a scientist. You would expect a scientist to react to the problem using his tools not political activism. > He knew full well > that a coverup can't be solved with scientific solutions! Hell he was UFO PR > man for the air force. As to evidence that Hynek was playing both sides of > the fence I would refer you to some of Len Stringfields literature expecialy > the little run in Len had with Hynek. I talked to Len about that in person > when he was alive. That little series of events is very enlightening from a > intelligence perspective. > > Then we have MUFON and FUFOR come into existance with a man with a NSA > background taking, formulative and critical positions in both organizations. You are telling me that Dueley was around at the formation of MUFON and Skylook. Are you sure? > Of course if Thomas D. is a mole plugging security leaks and gathering > intelligence he is not going to fess up. One thing for sure is that Thomas > D. is in exactly the place a intelligence mole should be. I am not saying > that he is a mole but he sure as hell is a prime suspect if there every was > one just as Hynek was. I or anybody else in their right mind would not give > sensitive information to MUFON, CUFOS or FUFOR. > The UFO community in my mind looks very much like a compromized intelligence > agency. Its confused, conflicted, tied up in knots with petty squabbles. > Sure a lot of it is internaly generated but it only takes one or two rather > intelligent bad apples to spoil the whole barrel. I don't agree. The ufo community keeps retreading these giant conspiracy theories. In correspondence between Keyhoe and Coral Lorenzen about 1954-5. Coral agrued that Keyhoe was an unwitting intelligence pawn preparing the public for the secret of UFOs which would soon be released. She also commented about the young brash guy Leonard Stringfield. He is was coming up with so much inforamtion, but can he be trusted. He might be an intelligence agent. Coral was so sure that the answer would come out that she would not allow renewals to APRO for a whole year because we would know all about the UFO before then and there would be no need for APRO. I like her later assessment better: The official father figures do not say anything about UFOs and ufologist conclude that "Daddy won't tell instead of Daddy does know." And I would add "and Daddy doesn't much care." Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 15 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:03:12 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 15 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 15 April 13, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor PILOT'S DISAPPEARANCE HAS U.S. AIR FORCE PUZZLED At 10:30 a.m. on Wednesday, April 2, 1997, three U.S. Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt fighter planes took off from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. Flying an A-10 (tail number 79-1234) was Capt. Craig David Button, 32, of Massapequa, Long Island, N.Y. At 10:40 a.m., the flight rendezvoused with an airborne tanker over Tombstone, topped off their fuel tanks, and turned west, heading for the Goldwater bombing range south of Highway 9. Each fighter-bomber was equipped with a 30mm Gatling gun and four 500-lb. Mark 82 GP (General Purpose) bombs. At 11:30 a.m., just east of the Goldwater range, the planes, all from the 355th Fighter Wing, moved into attack formation. At 11:38 a.m., as they passed over Gila Bend, the flight leader asked for a radio check. Capt. Button, who had been in the rear position, failed to acknowledge. When his wingmates turned to look for him, he was gone. At 12:11 p.m., a farmer saw Button's A-10 flying low over Apache Junction, Arizona (population 9,935), about 40 miles (64 kilometers) east of Phoenix. "Western Air Defense Sector military radar in southern Arizona...detected an unidentified aircraft flying straight, low and level on a northeast heading. The military assumes it was Button." (See the Washington Post for April 13, 1997.) At 12:20 p.m. a retired Navy pilot reported seeing an A-10 north of Roosevelt Lake, flying low at an estimated altitude of 6,500 feet, heading northeast. The A-10 was next seen over Young, Arizona (population 300). At 12:47, the A-10 crossed the state line into New Mexico at a point 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of Shiprock (population 7,000). After four or five minutes of flight, the A-10 crossed the state line into Colorado, passing over the Ute Indian reservation at Towaoc (population 300). At 12:53 p.m., radar operators at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) center in Denver picked up Button's plane over Cortez, Colorado (population 7,095) At 1:22 p.m., eyewitnesses on the ground near Montrose (population 8,722). The FAA Center in Denver again picked up the flight on radar, but the plane suddenly changed direction over the town of Glenwood Springs (population 4,637), flying a heading of 080 through Glenwood Canyon to the town of Eagle (population 801). The A-10 altered course again, flying a bearing of 175, nearly due south, over foothills known as the Seven Hermits and Hardscrabble Mountain. Near the ski resort of Aspen, the A-10 changed course twice, heading west and then northeast, crossing Highway 82 and Red Table Mountain. It crossed its own earlier flight path over Hardscrabble Mountain and then flew a bearing 075 into the peaks of the Sawatch mountain range. At 1:40 p.m., the last radar signal from the A-10 was recorded near New York Mountain (elevation 12,580 feet or 3,700 meters). For 11 days, the U.S. Air Force, the Colorado Air National Guard and the Civil Air Patrol have flown over 200 sorties in search of the missing fighter-bomber. On Thursday, April 10, a U-2 reconnaissance plane from Beale Air Force Base in California overflew the mountainous section of Eagle County and identified five possible crash sites. At first, the Air Force thought Button might have become incapacitated due to illness or a stroke. "'We are trained, if we do get disoriented or some other situation, to switch on the autopilot. It's just hitting a switch on the actual stick,' said Capt. Martha McSally, 31, an A-10 pilot also based at Davis- Monthan." (See USA Today, April 10, 1997, page 3A) Authorities later rejected the theory because the A-10 repeatedly changed course and altitude and performed other flight maneuvers that could not be done by the autopilot. Col. Barry Barksdale, CO of the 355th Wing, told the media, "This has gotten so bizarre. Anything is possible," adding that, "Everything is speculation until we recover the aircraft and pilot." The search has been hampered by days of inclement weather, including snowstorms which have added two feet (0.6 meters) of snow to the Sawatch range. On Friday, April 11, one official speculated that Capt. Button may have become despondent over his parents' conversion to the Jehovah's Witnesses and tried to commit suicide. On Saturday, April 12, the pilot's parents issued a statement to the media, explaining that they had become Jehovah's Witnesses during the 1970s and denying that their son had considered suicide. According to Mr. and Mrs. Richard Button of Massapequa, N.Y., "We just finished spending six days with Craig" in Arizona and "when we left, he was in good spirits." Capt. Button graduated from the New York Institute of Technology, Old Westport, Long Island, N.Y. with a degree in aeronautical engineering, in 1990. He joined the Air Force in 1991. Prior to his assignment to Davis-Monthan, he served as a flight training instructor at Laughlin Air Force Base in Del Rio, Texas. (Editor's Comment: At the risk of getting nasty email from Hillary Clinton, I'd like to point out two UFO- related aspects to this case. One, the A-10's flight path took it right over Miller Mesa, near the Aldasoro Ranch, where Nancy Brown and her husband spotted a very large UFO at 1:30 a.m. on March 7, 1997. (See the newspaper The Morning Sun for March 11, 1997). Two, New York Mountain, the site of the A-10's suspected crash, is 30 miles (48 kilometers) southeast of Burns, the site of last November's UFO sighting and resultant cattle mutilations. For more on strange incidents in Colorado, see the next story.) WEIRD HUM HAS COLORADO RESIDENTS MYSTIFIED Mike V. operates a concession stand and trailer park in Alamosa County, not far from Great Sand Dunes National Monument, at the foot of the Sangre de Cristo mountain range. For years, Mike and his neighbors have been plagued by strange humming noises, very similar to the famous "Taos Hum." But lately things have been getting very strange. Mike told veteran UFO investigator Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY (St. Martin's Paperbacks, 1996), that lately the hum has become so disturbing that it forced him out of his underground home. "We've had numerous reports going back 30 years of hums, vibrations, booms" near Crestone, Mesita, and the Great Sand Dunes National Monument," O'Brien reported. "This is nothing new. What is new is that the reports now claim that the sound is louder and has changed to a higher frequency." On December 29, 1996, Stephanie Vevea, who lives at the Baca Grande Chalets, reported an "annoying, almost nauseating low-pitched drone that permeated her house." Looking out her bedroom window, Ms. Vevea spotted "a bright white light" from from southwest to northeast over the mountains. The droning persisted even after the UFO left. Despite the continual drone, she returned to bed and went to sleep. When she awoke in the morning, the droning was still going on. Ms. Vevea summouned a friend to her house, and the two women listened to it until 9:40 a.m., when it finally ceased. On August 13, 1996, at 10 p.m., while walking near the amphitheater at Great Sand Dunes National Monument, Steve Goroki heard the weird hum and saw "a wildly vibrating street sign moving six inches from side to side." (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for these reports.) LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN NEAR SYDNEY AND DARWIN On Saturday, April 5, 1997, at 12:10 a.m., people in Wanguri, near the city of Darwin in Australia's Northern Territory (N.T.) saw "a large red fireball travelling quickly overhead." The UFO was described as "a very red color" and had "a small fiery rim." It was "headed south toward the Alice (Springs) and was about the same height as a small aircraft." The condition of the sky was clear with no wind. No sound was heard from the UFO, which "was larger than the full moon, 12 o'clock high (directly overhead) and moved faster than any aircraft." The same evening, April 5, at 8:30 p.m., witnesses in Sydney, Australia's largest city, reported seeing "globes of light...orange illuminated light" in the southwestern sky. The illuminations "split into two pairs and speeded off in opposite directions, east and west." At 9:15 p.m., people in Campbelltown, New South Wales (N.S.W.) saw a luminous orange orb in the southeastern sky. It retreated to the southeast. At 11 p.m., Campbelltown residents spied "up to eight illuminations" approaching the city from the southeast. The UFOs hovered for a few minutes and then changed direction, flying away to the west. At 9:55 p.m., orange UFOs were also spotted west and southwest of Mount Ousely and the town of Nowra, N.S.W. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for these reports.) TASMANIA REPORTS STRANGE UFO OVERFLIGHT Also on Saturday, April 5, 1997, a strange-looking UFO was seen in Tasmania, the island state off the southern coast of Australia. The UFO appeared at 9:30 p.m. over Bicheno, 192 kilometers (116 miles) north of Hobart, the state capital. Witnesses said the object "appeared like an aircraft with port and starboard (left and right-side) lights. However, the fuselage was like a white flouro tube (flourescent light), and it seemed to have an electrical field around it." Bicheno residents got out their binoculars and telescopes. While they had no trouble picking out the object's red and green lights, they claimed "they could not focus upon" the white portion--it was too bright. The UFO hovered for five minutes and then moved toward the crowd of onlookers "at a frightening speed." A middle-aged witness said, "I was spooked by it. I thought it was coming to get us. I ran inside and hid in the cupboard (closet)." Other witnesses stood their ground and watched as the UFO suddenly changed direction and flew off to the west. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe for this report.) UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT IN NEW JERSEY On Thursday, April 3, 1997, at 7:45 p.m., Dan Robb was driving on Route 532 in Tuckerton, New Jersey (population 2,472), about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Atlantic City. All at once, he noticed "a string of orange lights low in the sky." He estimated that the object was ahead of him, about one mile from Route 72. "It was a group of five or six together," he reported. "I later saw them from Route 72, a group of four lights together with one split off to the right. Later one appeared to stay 45 degrees up from the horizon. I saw them for five seconds, then they disappeared." (Email Interview) The following evening, Friday, April 4, 1997, two boys, K.C.K. and Erik C., saw "a low-flying, slow- moving group of orange lights. They were too long, fore and aft, to be U.S. planes. Anyway, they were way too low to be a helicopter or a bomber." The boys sighted the mysterious flight in Millstone, New Jersey, on Route 533, about 30 miles (48 kilometers) southeast of Newark. (Email Interview) COUPLE SPIES UFO OVER NORTH CAROLINA On Saturday, April 5, 1997, at 9 p.m., Therese V. and her husband went for a stroll in their hometown of Rich Square, North Carolina (population 1,057). Rich Square is about 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of the Virginia state line and 115 miles (190 kilometers) northeast of Raleigh. They were "just enjoying the stars," when Mr. V saw something moving silently through the sky. "We saw an object--kind of spheroid-shaped--in the eastern sky," Mrs. V. said, "Orangeish yellow. It was very fast but did not have any blinking lights, and it made no sound. It approached from the southwest and departed to the northeast." She estimated the size of the UFO as "rather like a dime held at arm's length." "We went out to the country" to get a better look, she added, "But we saw nothing more" of the UFO. (Email Interview) CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN OVER NEWBURGH, N.Y. On March 16, 1997, at 8:20 a.m., Mike O. spotted a "cigar-shaped object" over the city of Newburgh, N.Y. (population 23,438). Newburgh is located on the west bank of the Hudson River, 70 miles (112 kilometers) north of New York City. The "cigar-shaped object skipped through the sky behind the tree line behind my house," he reported. "It was about a quarter of a mile away (400 meters), at about 1,000 feet (330 meters) altitude. It looked just like an aircraft fuselage but had absolutely no wings, vertical or horizontal stabilizers, or any other appendages of any kind. I know this because it was a crisp clear morning...It was white along the top length and black along the bottom. I have been in aviation for 28 years, and this was beyond my experience. I might describe it also as a missile but it wasn't really moving that fast. Just silently slipping through the air with no evidence of a propulsion system." He estimated the object's airspeed at 300 to 400 knots. "That's a guess again, but it 'feels' right from what I saw." (Many thanks to Bruce Cornet for this story.) FLAP CONTINUES IN THE NETHERLANDS Hard on the heels of last week's sighting in Oosterwijk come five reports of UFOs in the eastern Netherlands, close to the border with Germany. On Wednesday, April 2, 1997, at 10 p.m., "three lightning balls" appeared over the Dutch city of Hengelo (population 67,000). The first witness, a young woman, was sitting in her car when she spied "three objects passing through the northern part of the sky. At first I thought they were satellites, and then the white objects slowed to a standstill and hovered there for a very short period of time." She estimated that the UFOs were 40 degrees above the horizon. Then, she added, they "went away quickly towards the east," seemingly heading for Schuttorf, Germany. At 10:15 p.m., a middle-aged couple driving from Enschede (population 157,000) to Hengelo spotted "a glowing object" in the northern sky. They watched the UFO for one minute while it zigzagged through the sky. At 11 p.m., a man in Delden "saw two light-balls." He watched them for several seconds as "they flew away to the northeast." Another woman saw "three objects moving and hovering in the sky above Hengelo." She described the UFOs as "like the brightest stars (first-magnitude)." She watched them "only for a few seconds before they flew away." (Many thanks to Jeroen Kumeling and UFO-Werkgroep Oost-Nederland (UFOWON) for these reports.) TWO MEN CLAIM A BLACK TRIANGLE UFO CRASHED NEAR SHEFFIELD On March 24, 1997, at 10:06 p.m., a mysterious explosion rocked South Yorkshire. The boom, confirmed by Edinburgh University, was attributed to a sonic boom from an RAF jet flying too low at supersonic speed or to a bolide or exploding meteor. Now two men, one a ufologist who wishes to remain anonymous, claim they saw a black triangular UFO pass over their house near Sheffield and Dronenfield, Yorks. just prior to the blast. The ufologist's friend claims he looked out the window at 9:45 p.m. on March 24 and saw a large object fly over the house. He described it as a triangle, "200 feet in size, with a light at each tip and a large blue intense light in the center bottom." He also claims to have seen the object followed by six RAF Tornado jet fighters, "first two, then two more, then two more. Following that, helicopters began to appear." Hearing the explosion, the friend told the ufologist, and together they drove down Highway A57, also known as Snake Pass Road, hoping to find the crash site. They then ran into a police roadblock, which prevented them from entering "the barrens" beyond Sheffield. Rumors of a "Black Triangle" (BT) crash persist in Britain, despite the official denials. Supporters of the theory cite an alert that evening at the Royal Hospital at Halamshire to expect the arrival of "plane crash victims." Also, there are unconfirmed reports of UFO radar contact at the bases RAF Cosford and RAF Shawcross. Investigation of these reports by Britain's UFO community continues. (Thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this story.) Letter FROM the Editor The newspaper The Bee in Fresno, California needs the help of UFO ROUNDUP readers. Reporter James S. Howard at The Bee is doing a feature story on the UFO sightings at Sacramento, Modesto and Marysville in 1996, and he would like to talk to anyone who has witnessed a UFO over California's Central Valley. Jim assures me that this is no Hillary Hatchet Job on the UFO community but a straight feature on the continuing UFO phenomenon in the Fresno area. So if you're a reader from the Central Valley, and you don't mind talking about your UFO experience, you can reach Jim at this number...1-800-877-7300, extension 6208. I'm not going to advise our readers either way. It's your decision to make. Just remember, there may be unforeseen consequences if you do go public with your story. FUN UFO WEBSITES Between the missing A-10 and the weird hum at the Great Sand Dunes National Monument, UFO author/ investigator Christopher O'Brien really has his plate full. But he does take time out to update the news at his Website. Follow the quests of Chris and his brother, Brendan, at this URL: http://rainbow.rmi.net/~tmv/ Tony O'Neil, who tracked the UFO over Hardwick, Vermont on March 20, just opened his site. If you like UFOs, and know your way around Radio Shack, try out http://www.pioneerplanet.com/ Newcomer BDC Andy has a new UFO site on the Web. You'll find him at http://members.aol.com/ lodmirage/home.html The UFO Page, better known as TUFOP, has a new home. You'll find TUFOP at this address: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7595 The new Crop Circles and Cattle Mutilations Message Board just opened this week. Log in at http://www.ufonetwork.com/public/crops/ wwwboard/ "The Last UFO" is a page operated by both Brian Scott and Josh McKee. So you'll find it at two addresses: (1) http://www.nni.com/~bscott (2) http://www.peak.org./~mckeej Again, don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO. John Hayes makes certain we have the latest, most up-to-date information available. It's at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try our site at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/ roundup.hts That's all for now. More news next Sunday from "the paper that covers the saucers--UFO ROUNDUP." See you then! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any item from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:16 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:43:43 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) >To: area51@lists.best.com >cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com >Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? Ed wrote; >Science relys on the repeatable and controlled expermental process. This >works fine in the lab and with things that are of lesser intelligence than >the expermenter. I submit that science fails when it is applied to equal or >higher intelligence. No, it just raises more variables to take into account, for example; >After three days of frustration the >researcher came to a profound conclusion. The octupus was intelligent and >was expermenting on him also. That would automatically invalidate the experiment as _designed_, but not the idea of the experimentation altogether. Also the intelligence of the cephapods is well known within Marine biology, but it has never stopped experimentation or observation of behaviour. Do we stop describing medicine as a science? >Not only do we have >intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse >the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both >the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. The experiement merely needs redesigning to take these factors into account, but the first things you have to do are find the parameters. Difficult, but not impossible. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. -------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76710.234 | edkomarek |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Caution - UFO Radiation From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:19 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:44:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:00:00 -0400 >From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: CAUTION - UFO RADIATION. Jennifer wrote; >Dear Mr.Diss, James, please. >I am just quoting what I thought might be a cautionary message to >others, like myself, who have been getting in rather close proximity >to these anomalous objects just recently. With the exception of a handful of cases, close proximity has not cause permanent lasting damage to a witness, nor caused alarm for people who have witnessed these things, including your own people in Mexico, but the potential remains for a trace of panic to override any observation of radioactivity. I would advise a good geiger counter, or film badges, if you think that a close encounter would produce stray emissions. This could be a research project in it's own right. >I think that you might find Mr. Hill's book quite interesting to read, >study and digest. I have been promised it, but according to what I've been told, it creates some bold and sweeping generalisations of observed behaviour, and is quite zeitgeist. >Then a very >strong beam of similar colour shines down onto the water, and the object >submerges. Then send samples of the water for testing. Long term submerging would produce a notable increase. >I was wondering whether, when YOU are getting fairly close to such >objects, that you tend to feel the same way? Hard to say, but I would take the precautions above if I was part of a group that provoked contact in the same way as CSETI, or if I was expecting contact. I'm surprised that such protocols aren't already in place for your field personnal, and I would definately contact Burkes concerning this immediately. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:21 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:47:11 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:37:10 GMT >To: ufobfmuseum@value.net >From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> >Subject: BLACK TRIANGLE STORY IN UK. Erik wrote; >Our source says his friend DID SEE A 200 FT BT/UFO. fOLLOWED BY >SIX FIGHTER PLANES. UK type Tornados. 200 ft? That's quite a low loader. Should we picket the M62 and see what goes past? I don't suppose that he got the tail numbers of the Tornys, or were they the black unmarked kind? One of the things that constantly amazes me is this ability the military have to 'disappear' huge amounts of debris in less than six hours, then transport it through the relatively densely populated countryside to what can only be presumed to be an underground base. Bounders, them military types. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. -------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76710.234 | ufobfmuseum
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencys & UFO Organizations From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:49:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencys & UFO Organizations >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:27:54 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >If Bill Moore said the sun was shining outside, I would >go outside twice to check. What makes you think his >"confession" >is any more valid than anything else he said. Jan I don't think Bill Moore willingly confessed. Seems to me that sombody was about to blow the whistle on him. Perhaps other subscribes of UFO updates may be able to fill in here. >> I think Hynek skillfuly diverted the UFO community away >>from solving a >> political problem, ie a coverup, with political solutions. >Hynek was a scientist. You would expect a scientist to react >to the problem using his tools not political activism. Hold on! Hynek was much more that a scientist, he as I said, was PR man for the Air Force. Thats a pretty political position if you ask me. In fact he was working pretty hard before his conversion to debunk UFOs in the press. >> Then we have MUFON and FUFOR come into existance with a >>man with a NSA >>background taking, formulative and critical positions in >>both organizations. >You are telling me that Dueley was around at the formation of >MUFON and Skylook. Are you sure? I said FUFOR, I am not sure about MUFON formation. ( I said nothing about Skylook.) But he has held and is holding influncial positions in both organizations. He used to be corporate secretary of MUFON but I think he gave that up. As far as I know he is still on the board of both MUFON and FUFOR. Perhaps some of the folks in these organizations may want to keep the readers up to date on this. I understand he is a nice fella and those are the types I worry about. Maybe Dueley would like to join this discussion at this point? He has definitely played a back seat role over the years. You sure don't hear that much about him for some one in such a influnential position. Lets keep up this discussion going, I am hoping other will join in. I enjoy your perspective Jan. Keep the conversation rolling. The best Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:53:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:52:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:19:05 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > [snip] > > For instance the civilians could > > >be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity > > >that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance > > >methods. > > >Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to > > >gather raw data. In the research that I have done with the Canadian National Research Council records on microfilm (which of course Jan you are very aware of) I ran across about a dozen reports sent in by GOC personnel, both still with the Corp and others that had been in the Corp during both WW I and WW II (the Big One). They were usually quite detailed and professional in their content. > In the early 1950's Hynek tried to organized a fireball/UFO > reporting network using amateur astronomers and the GOC Filter > Centers. While he was promised cooperation, he had only minor > success. > Best regards, > Jan Aldrich The RCAF was more successful in this respect here in Canada by enlisting the aid of Astronomers across Canada to investigate reports of Fireballs and Meteors. The RCMP and Canadian Forces receiving reports of those that they suspected might fall into that catagory referred same to the Air Force who then passed it along to the appropriate Astonomer. In fact it was a thinly disguised effort to investigate UFO reports with "bonfide scientists" without appearing to do so and thereby "legitimize" the phenomena. In my area at least the astronomers-one Father Burke-Gaffney's file proved that he was far more interested on the UFO field than he was prepared to admit publicly. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:53:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:55:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Cathy Johnson <rfsignal@M3.SPRYNET.COM> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:09:39 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 4/11/97 5:08 PM: > > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) > > To: area51@lists.best.com > > cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com > > Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? > > Science relys on the repeatable and controlled expermental process. This > > works fine in the lab and with things that are of lesser intelligence than > > the expermenter. I submit that science fails when it is applied to equal o r > > higher intelligence. Science like every other persuasion relies on public opinion to some degree but more importantly the sanction of "higher authority and peer pressure" to determine what "is" and what "is not". Nowadays that's the government (yours, mine, everybodies) but in earlier days such as the 14th, 15th or 16th centuries say, that higher authority was the church or some religious dogma. They said the earth was flat and also the center of the universe so that was the way it was gonna be under penalty of imprisonment or death. We could probably spend another couple of weeks in this discussion citing examples of those scientists who have contributed to the furtherment of the human condition but who were looked down on or outcasts in their own profession but who were prove to be right in the long run. As usual there are a few that are out to lunch and therefore the excuse to blow off the majority that are not. > I tend to think of science as a lot of test tubes > and stuff. What science has failed to find is the logical > reason for all kinds of anomalies, like back ground > radiation in landing areas (Walton) and scars on people that > weren't there before the event (Velez) and unusual memories > of sequences of events in their entirety (myself) and a lot > of other circumstancial evidence. What does science say > about any of this? Today, if you don't follow the pack in science you are an outcast and a radical. Pity the rest of us for those that aren't radical because they normally don't produce anything other than takehome pay and take up space better utilized by those radicals (that means people with imagination, vision and courage) that seem always to come up with something useful for humanity. > > There are many in the UFO community who think that science can solve the UF O > > problem with scientific solutions. I think they are wrong. 1. It is > > obvious that the UFO problem has developed into a political problem because > > there is a coverup and so is deserving of political solutions. 2. The UFO > > problem is a intelligence problem as the intelligence agencys know full > > well. > > A approach from a intelligence perspective can yield understanding of this > > issue. > I agree with you on the complexities of the many aspects > of the UFO Phenomenon as it is being dealt with by various aspects > of humanity. >But the > entire subject is so ripe that something has to be done. Its not important > whether any one picture or video or abduction story is factual or not. What i s > important is how we conduct ourselves as we try to get to the bottom of it all . > Take care for now, > Cathy Johnson What will probably win the day is the numbers game. More on our side than on theirs, and in that regard I think that we are winning. The more people report, and the more UFO incidents investigated and catalogued makes it more difficult to discount the field as the whim and paranoia of a few. We are already way past that and I think we are going to see some sort of breakthrough before very much longer. Regards Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | rfsignal |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:18:56 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:59:09 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' Dear UPdates: I am very glad you have assisted me with your help. I cannot sub to every service there is and still run a museum, since I have no assistants who are here daily. I have to run the front desk. I should have phrased my complaint to say that I was sorry nobody as an individual had joggled my elbow to tell me about this. In the flow of ufo info, there are hot things and routine. This was hot. Please do not take my comments personally. I DO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR SPECIAL BULLETINS. thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Erik "Not only is the universe stranger than you imagine, the universe is stranger than you CAN imagine." JBS Haldane NOTICE: Museum is open . 709 Union st,North Beach,SF,CA Ye editor Erik Beckjord,BA,MBA Curator - the UFO,Bigfoot& Loch Ness Monster Museum Box 9502 Berkeley,CA 94709 415-974-4339 VM,415-989-5005 on site museum. Lists: Beckjord@transbay.net Museum: ufobfmuseum@value.net see: http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/ ( UFO Museum)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Maurice Chatelaine? From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:56:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:04:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:22:27 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:10:43 +0200 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >> >From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) >> >Subject: Re: Maurice Chatelaine? >> >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >> >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:16:19 -0400 (EDT) >> >Maurice Chatelaine was a space scientist, a designer of the >> >Apollo space craft, and NASA Chief of Communications for the >> >Apollo lunar missions. >> My Information on Chatelain is different... ....snip.... >> Karel. ....snip.... >James Oberg has made many claims regarding Maurice Chatelain. Do >you have any primary information e.g. dated verifiable documents >from Chatelain's employer or are you just echoing these old Oberg >"truths". Those familiar with some of the James Oberg / Brian >Zeiler threads in the Usenet group alt.paranet.ufo may be aware that >several times Oberg came up short in substantiating his claims. >Gary Alevy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Sorry to be redundant about this, but it reaffirms the point Gary is making: Additionally, those familiar with the "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals" can also remember Mr. Oberg made several extremely inaccurate and slanderous remarks concerning major researchers J. Allen Hynek & James McDonald as well, in his attempts to diminish Gordon Cooper's claims regarding UFOs. I demonstrated this more than adequately therein. Any "newbies" not familiar with same, the essays are located at.... www.li.net/~rjcohen .... or in Glenn Campbell's database at.... http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ For all these reasons, Mr. Oberg's statements should certainly be carefully examined with a fine tooth comb before accepting any of them as gospel. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | galevy | karel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Skywatch: UFO Conferees Getting Bad Rap From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL" <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:16:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:06:48 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: UFO Conferees Getting Bad Rap ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Ndunlks@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:49:56 -0400 (EDT) To: Skywatch@phoenix.net Subject: (<>.<>) UFO Conferees Getting Bad Rap .c The Associated Press By PAISLEY DODDS EUREKA SPRINGS, Ark. (AP) - For a group that shares stories about being sucked out of cars by aliens or losing livestock to laser beams, the uninvited visitors who believed they would reach the afterlife in a UFO were just too weird. When members of the Heaven's Gate cult tried to join discussions at the annual Ozark UFO Conference three years ago, they were permitted only to drop off literature. No theological debates were tolerated. The conference attracts a crowd more interested in largely nuts-and-bolts issues: UFO sightings and tales of how ``I got abducted by aliens in a big space ship and I'm here to tell my story.'' This year, they can't avoid the subject of Heaven's Gate and its members' mass suicides. ``I remember them showing up, talking about Jesus and UFOs,'' says Tabby Runnels, a 33-year-old from Tulsa, Okla. ``Those cult people started arguing with my friend. ``They also made weird chirping noises. They were really weird.'' Thirty-nine members of Heaven's Gate killed themselves over a series of days in late March in a southern California mansion, believing they would be taken to eternal peace on a UFO trailing the Hale-Bopp comet. At the Ozarks conference, UFOs are valued only as ``proof'' of extraterrestrial life, not as transportation to eternal life. ``That whole Heaven's Gate incident has made a conference like this the object of ridicule,'' says Lou Farish, coordinator of the Ninth Annual Ozark UFO Conference. ``The difference is that they integrated UFOs into a set belief system. We're all individuals here with individual minds.'' About 400 people attended the weekend conference at this resort town in the Ozark mountains. ``I've seen enough about UFOs and extraterrestrials to know that the phenomenon of UFOs goes beyond hallucination and hoaxes,'' said 48-year-old Gary Massey of Paris, Texas, who runs the Lone Star Bar at the conference. Vendors peddled alien statues, books on extraterrestrials, key chains and flying saucer mugs, while speakers like psychologist Robert Stone of Pensacola, Fla., tried to convince crowds of the intangible. Stone claims a group of peaceful aliens took him aboard a spaceship in 1991. ``A few people have already come up to me to tell me that they've had similar experiences,'' Stone said. ``I can understand why some people don't believe in this, but if there were this many witnesses in a court of law, someone would be convicted.'' Dozens of people brought pictures of disc-shaped objects they say are flying saucers. Not everyone accepted them at face value. ``At least a third of all these photographs are fakes and I could prove it,'' says Bob Shell, editor of Shutterbug, a photography magazine. ``It's amazing what they can do with pictures. These things could be UFOs but I'm one of the skeptics.'' Dr. John Carpenter, who operates a psychiatric practice in Springfield, Mo., came to the conference to speak about his research. He has counseled more than 120 people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. ``Typically, people find themselves being floated off in a blue, iridescent moonlight,'' says Carpenter. ``I try to trick people and see if they are making it up, but I have had 17 cases of people who have been abducted together and during hypnotherapy, they remember the same things. It's almost embarrassing to say.'' AP-NY-04-12-97 1412EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:05:15 -0400 Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? >Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:16 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply >To UFOs? >>From: EdKomarek@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) >>To: area51@lists.best.com >>cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com >>Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? [Gentlemen look at the layout mess below - the result of ignoring the 70 character per line rule on UFO UpDates - ebk] >Ed wrote; >>Science relys on the repeatable and controlled expermental process. This >>works fine in the lab and with things that are of lesser intelligence than >>the expermenter. I submit that science fails when it is applied to equal or >>higher intelligence. >No, it just raises more variables to take into account, for >example; >>After three days of frustration the >>researcher came to a profound conclusion. The octupus was >>intelligent and >>was expermenting on him also. >That would automatically invalidate the experiment as >_designed_, but not the >idea of the experimentation altogether. Also the intelligence >of the cephapods >is well known within Marine biology, but it has never stopped >experimentation or >observation of behaviour. >Do we stop describing medicine as a science? >>Not only do we have >>intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse >>the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both >>the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. >The experiement merely needs redesigning to take these >factors into account, but >the first things you have to do are find the parameters. >Difficult, but not >impossible. >James A Diss ---- ************************** I like that clarification I will work on it. Good post. How do you propose to to redesign the experment to deal with a intelligence higher that our own assuming such a intelligence exists? How do you propose to deal with the human intelligence operative assuming he she exists monkeying around in the experment ? How do you propose to deal with the suppression of evidence by well funded intelligence agencys assuming their is suppression? How do you deal with the politics of a coverup assuming there is a coverup. How do you get alien bodies and crashed craft out into the public domain assuming such exists? At what point do the variables become so great that the scientist throws up his hands, burns the lab down, and says take me to your leader? Or wanders off into the desert to be seen no more? Or goes to his or her church of choice to pray! The best, Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Who is 'Branton'? From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:07:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:07:44 -0400 Subject: Who is 'Branton'? Who is the prolific and clearly highly delusional "Branton", whose stuff seems to appear on various UFO sites and links the Illuminati and the greys to every conspiracy ever cooked up.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 AUFORA: STS 82 UFO encounter? From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 97 20:49:00 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:53:00 -0400 Subject: AUFORA: STS 82 UFO encounter? AUFORA News Update Sunday, April 14th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ ________________________ ANOMALOUS CONVERSATION ABORD SPACE SHUTTLE (STS 82) from John Locker - http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ conversation on Feb 18th, 1997 - NASA TV Conversation starts at 0639 hours Crew member A:"What was that flash?" Crew Member B:"I don't know" A:"That light flashed possibly just here.....and again" (Laughs) B:"...I see it" A:"I just thought it was my imagination" B:"I saw it too...so it's not ..there was two of THEM" A:"There's another one...WHAT *ARE* THEY?" (11 sec silence) A:"I just saw the lights flickering in here" B:"I wonder if they're taking pictures?" A:"WHAT IS THAT?"..excitedly B:"This thing passed in front of us" A:"Where are the lights?" B:"Which ones?" A:"I dipped surveillence for a second, but I had that one the whole time" B:"Yeah, I got that one too!" Conversation ends at 0641m John Locker G7-MIZ Satellite and Communications Consultant Homepage......http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: Gary Mont <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:42:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:14:15 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? [More visual ugliness due to lines in excess of 70 characters - ebk] >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:04:54 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? > >At 05:08 PM 4/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >>From: EdKomarek@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) >>To: area51@lists.best.com >>cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com >>Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? > >[text deleted] > >>This very same thing is going on in the UFO field. Not only do we have >>intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse >>the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both >>the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. > >>The best, Ed Komarek ORTK > >I think it was Arthur C. Clarke who noted that phenomenon we don't >understand is often considered to be "magic". Science is not prepared to >begin acknowledging that which appears to be "magic", and finds it easier >to ignore. As with most other facets of society, there is also a >bureaucratic factor in the scientific community that helps to stifle such >acceptance. It's a complicated situation. It would seem the Military is then attempting to tell us that there is an entirely new field, or many new fields in physics which the public has never been told about. If they keep 'hinting' that UFO sightings are really just "The American Taxpayer's dollar being put to its best use in defence of the nation", and that all of the odd shapes seen in the sky are manned by none other than "American Armed Forces Personell", than they pretty much have to admit that these UFOs are using technologies far removed from what the public comprehends even slightly. If, on the other hand; as seems even more apparent, ALL governments (whose people see waves of Airborn Oddities in the sky) are using technologies NO public in any country, has been made aware of. This probably means that many of the claims about much of 'standard' physics being slightly falsified to prevent scholastic rediscovery of whatever the military have stumbled onto, has been going on for some time now. Somehow, this appears (to me) to be at least as big a problem to explain as real UFOs. Hey! A brand new conspiracy... more or less. >:> How was such technology kept purely miltary? How long has 'education' been fixed to insure the public remained entirely ignorant of whatever makes these super military machines in the sky tick. No sound. No propulsion evident through exhaust of any sort. Multi-G acceleration. Able to appear like a fireball of almost any color. The list goes on and on. One would think that the Military would be happy to have people believe UFOs DO Exist! That, or somehow convince a whole lot of folks that such audacious behaviour over the last 50 years was "for the benefit of the People". G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:52:56 -0400 Subject: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report IF there is someone going to attend Weaver's talk in Washington, D.C., there are some questions that should be addressed to him. 1. What was so different about the Mogul display of June 4 that would have prevented Mac Brazel, Jesse Marcel, and the others at the Roswell AAF from identifying the balloon? 2. Mac Brazel said that he had found weather balloons on two other occasions but this was nothing like those. But, Project Mogul was made up of weather balloons. In other words, the balloons should have been just like those. 3. Dr. Albert Crary's diary is the only written record of Launch NO. 4, the culprit in the Air Force report yet it says that it was a cluster of balloons and a sonobuoy. If there were no radar targets, what left the metallic material? As a follow-up, it could be noted that Crary's diary was specific about what made up those first flights. There was no mention of an array and radar targets... Why do you assume they were attached? 4. Why, in you report, did you quote only half of an affidavit from Sallye Tadolini? The second paragraph, which you ignore, suggests that the material was not common, but something strange. That it would return to it's original shape when folded. Why did you leave that out of the report? 5. Why did you ignore the statement of Colonel Edwin Easley who said that he had been sworn to secrecy? Those comments are on tape. 6. Are you aware that Colonel Patrick Saunders, the adjutant at Roswell has confirmed, in writing, that something unusual happened? That is, he said the story of the UFO crash was the truth. 7. If there was nothing to the UFO story, why does the Air Force now care what a bunch of UFO nuts believe? If the Air Force position is there is nothing to UFO reports, why did you waste taxpayer money to investigate this UFO case? 8. You imply that Mogul was top secret, yet the equipment was not top secret. It was just common weather balloons and radar reflectors. Shouldn't everyone been able to identify it? We've got to make it clear that the equipment was nothing extraordinary, though the Air Force has suggested this. We must hammer at the point that nothing unusual was used until July 3, and we know where that flight went. I'm sure there are others who can think of additional questions. Let's prepare for this so that we can show everyone that Weaver is working to prove something that he claims is already established fact. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: AUFORA: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:58:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:58:24 -0400 Subject: Re: AUFORA: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report >Subject: AUFORA: STS 82 UFO encounter >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 97 20:49:00 -0600 >From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> >To: <aufora@spots.ab.ca> > >AUFORA News Update >Sunday, April 14th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ It's unfortunate that David's AUFORA News Update didn't include a little more information. A click, or an URL cut and past would have given him the following: From: THE SATCOM HOMEPAGE http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ ****NEWS FLASH.....STS 82 AUDIO....WHAT DID THEY SEE**** As I was watching the live downlink from STS82 at the end of the fifth EVA the crew got back into the airlock and the camera changed to Mission Control Centre..MCC. Suddenly the following broke through on the soundtrack Crew voices... "What was that flash?" "That light flashed by me." "There it is again." "I thought I must be seeing things" "What" "I just thought it was my imagination" "I saw it too...so its not ...there was two of THEM" "There's another one...WHAT ARE THEY" "I just saw the lights flashing in here" "I wonder if THEY'RE(?)taking pictures?" "WHAT IS THAT" "(There's )THERE'S THIS THING passed in front of us" "Where are the lights?" "Which ones?" "I missed the XXXXX? for a second,but I had that one the whole time" "Yeh I got that one too!" At this point what may have been the comms controller left his desk on the left of the screen and moved to a colleague at the back of MCC to talk to him,the latter leaned forward towards the console as if to operate a switch,and the video cut out! The transcript is as close as I can get it,although audio was a bit scratchy. Now this raises a few questions/options... #1 Was it space debris? #2 Where they tiny meteors? #3 Where they something else? Either of the first two are frightening as NORAD should have warned the Shuttle crew of the impending near miss, as in fact they had done earlier when I believe an orbit shift took place to avoid Pegasus debris. From the tones of their voices the crew were taken by surprise,to say the least. Option 3 ,..well speculation is rife as you no doubt can imagine. I will be giving a lecture to the Lancs UFO society about SAT TV in a couple of weeks time, by then I hope to have found an explanation for the sighting. ------ Scientists in America are developing a high powered Space Laser which will be used to blow small pieces of debris from the path of the orbiting International Space Station. The 'gun' will be used to destroy small pieces, up to 10cm in size which could damage the outer skin of the Station in an impact. Talking of space lasars,..remember the STS80 incident last December when the airlock door failed to open.....and 2 EVAs were cancelled...well it seems that there may have been more to that story than meets the eye. On day 13, NASA TV's mission highlights apparently showed unidentified activity below the Shuttle as it approached the coast of West Africa. Round objects were seen moving about, apparently being chased by flashes of light... I have been examining available information, and from my own recordings from the previous day noticed that the payload bay camera was operated by remote control, zooming in on anything which appeared to move between the Shuttle and the surface. However at the time the incident happened, STS80 was passing over the Cape Verde Islands, where there may have been volcanic activity, resulting in large gaseous clouds rising into the upper atmosphere,like massive smoke rings,and being dispersed by flashes of lightning. If you recorded the highlights for mission day 13, which may have been transmitted via the EBU circuit on December the 1st, play the tape again,and see if the incident was featured... it's certainly worth a second look!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 'Arizona Video' on Velez Tape Compilation? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:32:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:11:16 -0400 Subject: 'Arizona Video' on Velez Tape Compilation? Hiya Errol, hi All, The following is a forward from Tom King. I told everyone in my original post that I wasn't sure how prepared Tommy was to make up a bunch of dupes. You will have his response to that one below. However, I am currently working on a compilation of all the UFO video (from all around the world) that has come into my possesion, and I will ask Tommy if it's O-K with him to include some of his March 13th Phoenix material as well. The tape will have recent footage from; Mexico Brazil Ecuador United States/ & (possibly March 13, Phoenix footage) depends on Tom. As I stated in my previous, the tapes were made by Tom and they belong to him. He may be okay with it if I only include segments. I'll find out. Anyone interested in getting on the distribution list for the 'compilation' tape should contact me at: jvif@spacelab.net I was a bit shocked at how many people haven't seen *any* of this recent footage and how many *are* interested in seeing it. When its ready I'll notify *all* who submited a request. Workin' on getting it out there! YOU *ALL* HAVE A RIGHT NOT ONLY TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE VERY LATEST INFORMATION, BUT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON! Once you've seen this material you are free to make up your own minds. But it is important that you see it! John Velez ====================================================== Forward from Tom King ===================== X-Sender: xalium@netwrx.net Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) From: xalium@netwrx.net Subject: Response on video requests Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:18:37 EST Johnny, Send this to your friends: To all the people who have requested copies of the Arizona videos I hope I can clear up a few details right now. I have sent a copy of the videos I have shot to (a few friends of mine,) but in no way do I have the facilities to make a copy for everyone in the world. I have had many requests for the daylight footage I have shot over Phoenix in 1995-97. I have given a copy of this footage to SU and maybe they'll air some it it April 23, or maybe not. So far its not on any nation wide show. I have sent copies of it to Lee Elders and other researchers interested in this type of footage. If you are interested in obtaining some rare UFO video here are a few suggestions. 1. The STS-80 NASA Columbia UFO video. 2. The March 13 Video shot by King/Hamilton. These videos can now be back ordered from a Arizona UFO talkshow called UFOAZ TALKS. The videos are one hour long and feature interviews with the guests who present their information for each episode. The UFOAZ TALKS goes back thru a long span of UFOlogy with nearly every UFO expert you can think of. Finally get your hands on the STS-80 footage and 4 minutes of footage Tom King shot on March 13, 1997. NOTICE: So far there is no way to get complete copies of all the videos shot on March 13, 1997. None of the researchers in Phoenix has them yet. Most of the videos are under lock and key of a MUFON field investigator trainee, who wishes only to deal with major media. Maybe FOX network will air this in several months. Get these videos directly from a local cable access show. http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/march13 /video.htm Tom King xalium@netwrx.net http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Caution - UFO Radiation & Paul Hill From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:01:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:36:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation & Paul Hill > Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:19 EDT > From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation > >I think that you might find Mr. Hill's book quite interesting to read, > >study and digest. > I have been promised it, but according to what > I've been told, it creates some bold and sweeping > generalisations of observed behaviour, and is quite > zeitgeist. By whom? Read it first James then make an assesment. This is not a crackpot book produced by some of the many lamebrains that permeate this field but by an expert in aeronautics working in the field of aerodynamics and rocketry for years (30) with NASA. He has no axe to grind, he is deceased. His book was published long after his death. I found it to be a ray of sunshine that somehow managed to seep under the preponderance of crap that serves for "UFO Investigation" under the guise of so much hot air and verbal diarrhoea in ufology. There seem to be a lot of people out there talking this phenomena to death rather than getting out in the field and investigating. Paul Hill rolled up his sleeves and got to work and spent years in quiet study on the subject and with great courage concidering where he worked and with whom. Don't take him lightly. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:00:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:46:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:53:24 +0000 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:19:05 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > > [snip] > > > For instance the civilians could > > > >be used as a sort of ground observation corps to catch activity > > > >that might be missed through more sophisticated surveillance > > > >methods. > > > >Everybody knows the value of having people in the field to > > > >gather raw data. > In the research that I have done with the Canadian National Research > Council records on microfilm (which of course Jan you are very aware > of) I ran across about a dozen reports sent in by GOC personnel, both > still with the Corp and others that had been in the Corp during both > WW I and WW II (the Big One). They were usually quite detailed and > professional in their content. > Lumping the Canadian effort--and the Alaskan effort in with > want was happening in the continental US was unfair. The Canadian effort was probably more professional and the volunteers more serious and better trained than in the US. The Canadian effort was tied into the Air-Sea Recue, also. However, the few reports that made it on those microfilms represent a small minority of the total reports if some of the press coverage can be believed. One more possible use of that Clipping Bibliographical Database that Ed Stewart is working on would be pulling all GOC reports from the database and comparing them with official records. I think more reports languished in Filter Center logs or may have been pull out of the system by US Air Defense at some point. The idea of a parallel investigation at Air Defense Command in the early days is still has some attraction for me. Obviously, after the 4602d AISS took over, there was not need for a parallel investigation at ADC. Also, ADC was under big money problems in the mid-1950s. Also, I thought Chris Styles had a letter which said the *real* Canadian UFO investigation had always been in the old RCAF ADC. Don't get me started on parallel investigations. However, there is evidence that the US Civil Defense organizations were used as auxiliary investigators. The US Navy has never been very forth coming. I have a file of about 50 or so letters from ONI written in response to various FOIA requests. The answer is scripted: "We don't investigate UFOs, if we had material it has been destroyed, if we did any investigations we gave it to the Air Force.....or lost at sea....the dog eat my homework, etc." There have been some other approaches. When asked about the records of the Technical Air Intelligence Center (TAIC), the FOIA officer said she had never heard anything know anything about TAIC. Wonder if they've counted to see if they have all their aircraft carriers lately. The best approach here is to seek out records at the archives and see if an "on the spot" FOIA can be done. I did find some Naval documents on "ghost rocket" and a small amount of TAIC records (no UFO materiatl) at the National Archives. Naval records, if they exist, are probably not found under the ordinary headings. They, more than likely, have to be dug out. The FOIA officers after a number of fruitless searches just give out these standard lines. > > In the early 1950's Hynek tried to organized a fireball/UFO > > reporting network using amateur astronomers and the GOC Filter > > Centers. While he was promised cooperation, he had only minor > > success. > The RCAF was more successful in this respect here in Canada by > enlisting the aid of Astronomers across Canada to investigate reports > of Fireballs and Meteors. The RCMP and Canadian Forces receiving > reports of those that they suspected might fall into that catagory > referred same to the Air Force who then passed it along to the > appropriate Astonomer. In fact it was a thinly disguised effort to > investigate UFO reports with "bonfide scientists" without appearing > to do so and thereby "legitimize" the phenomena. In my area at least > the astronomers-one Father Burke-Gaffney's file proved that he was far > more interested on the UFO field than he was prepared to admit > publicly. Here is the difference in approach, Don, you and Chris investigated this first hand and found evidence of a wider government effort involving Burt-Gaffney and others. The other type of investigations involves trying to read between the lines in popular literature and then weaving this "information" into fantastic conspiracies and never-ever go in for a "realty check" or confirmation. I hate to go to archives and have archivists or the FOIA officers show me the vicious and insulting letters they have received from some UFO buffs because the records that they requested were not there or were not what they thought they should be. Of course, such letters make sure that the next fellow along will get good service. NOT! We don't need any outside disinformation agents. They are in our midst. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Botswana UFO Recovery? From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:17:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:58:48 -0400 Subject: Botswana UFO Recovery? Can anyone shed any extra info on this one? >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:03:28 +0200 >To: darukane@dircon.co.uk >From: wholeliv@iafrica.com (Whole Living) >Received your reply an hour before leaving for a small town >called McGregor (just south of Robertson), two hours east of >Cape Town. We spent the night there in very stimulating >company, being filled in on the UFO landing just inside the >Botswana border a few years ago and how quickly and >systematically the entire event was mopped up. From the very >many eye-witness accounts there was a craft and two visible >figures outside the craft, one moving and the other not. All >traces of the craft and occupants were removed within hours by >an american craft with the help of the S A airforce. According >to radar records a craft entered space at an unclassifiable >speed and was shot down with a device we apparently do not >have. Anyway, the number of people who saw it in flight and >before it was removed make it a difficult to brush under the >carpet one. Witnesses who saw the American plane at the nearby >airforce base, radar tracking records etc. etc. Search for other documents from or mentioning: markp | darukane |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Intelligence Agencys & UFO Organizations From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:44:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:49:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencys & UFO Organizations > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:02:04 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencys & UFO Organizations > >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:27:54 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP > >If Bill Moore said the sun was shining outside, I would > >go outside twice to check. What makes you think his "confession" > >is any more valid than anything else he said. > Jan I don't think Bill Moore willingly confessed. Seems to me that sombody > was about to blow the whistle on him. Perhaps other subscribes of UFO > updates may be able to fill in here. Bill Moore didn't *have* to confess anything. It could simple trot out the obfuscations, rhetortical devices, etc. that were part of his stock and trade. > >> I think Hynek skillfuly diverted the UFO community away >>from solving a > >> political problem, ie a coverup, with political solutions. > >Hynek was a scientist. You would expect a scientist to react > >to the problem using his tools not political activism. > Hold on! Hynek was much more that a scientist, he as I said, was PR man for > the Air Force. Thats a pretty political position if you ask me. In fact he > was working pretty hard before his conversion to debunk UFOs in the press. Perhaps you missed Jacques Vallee? He just appeared on the scene? I don't think Hynek had a "conversion." He had a slow shift of opinion. The USAF used his name, but as a PR man he was not that great. His meetings with CSI and exchanges with the Frence seem to show a very early interest in something beyond the USAF line. Hynek went along with the program. I think his exchanges with COL Friend are instructive. Hynek calls NICAP "our competition." Friend and Hynek seem to get along well. They had what seemed a chuckle together when the Air Force headed off NICAP's first attempt to have a congressional hearing by going to McCormack and getting it killed. The irritating problem of what to do about Menzel came up several times. Hynek usually answered Menzel himself, and let Friend off the hook. Hynek and Friend did exchange puzzling cases and items that were outside the USAF investigation. Both were puzzled and interested, but within the confines of their jobs and USAF policy. > >> Then we have MUFON and FUFOR come into existance with a man > >> with a NSA background taking, formulative and critical > >> positions in both organizations. > >You are telling me that Dueley was around at the formation of > >MUFON and Skylook. Are you sure? > I said FUFOR, I am not sure about MUFON formation. ( I said nothing about > Skylook.) But he has held and is holding influncial positions in both > organizations. He used to be corporate secretary of MUFON but I think he > gave that up. As far as I know he is still on the board of both MUFON and > FUFOR. Perhaps some of the folks in these organizations may want to keep the > readers up to date on this. I understand he is a nice fella and those are > the types I worry about. Maybe Dueley would like to join this discussion at > this point? He has definitely played a back seat role over the years. You > sure don't hear that much about him for some one in such a influnential > position. Sorry, I don't buy the position that wherever former intelligence people walk the flowers die. My contacts with Dueley which were numerous and indicate that he has always worked hard to promote some kind of serious research effort in ufology. > Lets keep up this discussion going, I am hoping other will join in. I enjoy > your perspective Jan. Keep the conversation rolling. > Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 The LunarScan Project From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:28:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:53:13 -0400 Subject: The LunarScan Project Hello list ! Since today, TLP (The LunarScan Project) has a website ! It features the mission statement, a full report and images of the 2.38 miles large lunar orbiting object recorded at September 21, 1996. The URL is http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo And yes, that's the KUFOR site too. New since this weekend are 9 additional video's that I placed in the multimedia section. Best Regards, Karel. +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: AUFORA: STS 82 UFO encounter From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:28:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:52:17 -0400 Subject: Re: AUFORA: STS 82 UFO encounter At 08:49 PM 4/13/97 -0600, you wrote: >ANOMALOUS CONVERSATION ABORD SPACE SHUTTLE (STS 82) > from John Locker - http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ > conversation on Feb 18th, 1997 - NASA TV >Conversation starts at 0639 hours I've written to John about two month ago, asking if I could get an audio file of the conversation. He wrote back saying that at the moment he was still invesigating the event, and therefore could not give me a copy of the audio file. I think he doesn't have such a conversation on tape, but that's my personal opinion, and I could be wrong. Best Regards, Karel. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 14:57:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:03:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report A couple of questions I have regarding Weaver's Mogul Report: 1. Why was the "revised" testimony of CIC officer Cavitt used after he told investigators for years that he had nothing do do with the events at Roswell? 2. Why were only a small handful of witnesses interviewed for the report when tapes of the other witnesses were politely provided by various UFO organizations? 3. Why did the official log contain no mention of a flight, or its subsequent loss? You claim that unsucsessful flights weren't recorderd, but elsewhere in the log they are mentioned (I'm not as sure about this question's accuracy, but I included it anyway.). Why is this so? 4. Was there really reason to cover up the crash of a Mogul baloon when nobody in Roswell knew what it was? Was it's design so obvious that a average joe would notice it's top secret purpose? 5. Why do you ignore the statments of Brig. General Thomas DuBose, who says that the entire Roswell baloon story was a cover-up? Wasn't he in a position to know better than the other people cited in the report? These are just preliminary, and I've gotta run, so if anybody has any changes, corrections, or deletions please add them! Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:06:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >> From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> >> Well-known UFO authority Major Donald Keyhoe managed to beef up NICAP's >> prestige by looking for and appointing prominent people to NICAP's >> Board of Governors. One of the first board appointees was Vicie Admiral >> Roscoe Hillenkoetter, a Naval Academy classmate of Keyhoe's and the >> first Director of the CIIA, when it formed in 1947. Hillenkoetter made >> a number of positive statements on UFO reality, thus endearing himself >> to Keyhoe. This relationship reversed itself, however, when Keyhoe >> developed NICAP into a fierce opponent of government secrecy and pushed >> for Congressioinal hearings in the early 1960s. Hillenkoetter abruptly >> resigned from NICAP, expressing the opinion that NICAP went as far as >> it could go, and no further criticism should be aimed at the Air Force >> for its handling of UFOs. >> It can probably be surmised that Hillenkotter was pressured out of NICAP >> by the CIA, since it was of considerable embarrassment to the CIA to >> have a former Director making pro-UFO statements. >Surmises are fine, but why did it take Hillenkoetter so long >to resign? He could have easily resigned earlier when >Fahrney left. Have no definite facts one answer is as good >as another. Hillenkoetter was never was very active in >NICAP. His big contribution was his name. If you read Keyhoe's "Aliens From Space," Chapter 6. "Invisible Control", Keyhoe gives a whole other perspective on Hillenkoetter's resignation. Keyhoe wrote: "It was early in 1962 when the CIA struck at NICAP, to block a threatened showdown which would have ended the cover-up. Here for the first time are the full details of that incredible and its stunning climax." Already Hillenkoetter had written a letter to Congress on Aug. 22, 1960 in which he stated, "It is time for the truth to be brought out... Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense..." (also reprinted in the N.Y. Times) In 1961, Keyhoe was trying to organize a Congressional investigation into the UFO matter. Things came to a head in 1962. One sympathetic Congressman suggested that Keyhoe come up with one of their hottest cases, using unimpeachable witnesses. The case that Keyhoe planned to use was originally brought to his attention by Adm. Fahrney, who was still on the NICAP board, even though he resigned as director in 1957. Keyhoe told the Congressman that Fahrney would confirm it. The Congressman told Kehoe that the strategy would be to have Hillenkoetter spearhead the inquiry. "With his terrific Navy record and being CIA director for three years the press will play it up as a top-level deal." "....As I see it, we'll have McCormack or Karth open the press conference, with Goldwater or some othe senator confirming the purpose. They'll come right out and say this congressional group is seriously concerned about the UFO problem and the censorship. Then Adm. Hillenkoetter will take over. He'll repeat his statement that UFOs are real objects under intelligent control and that the AF is hiding the truth. Then he can produce the Navy witnesses in that Atlantic case. When they finish with their story, we can follow up with a few other strong NICAP-verified cases, and Hillenkoetter can go into the proof of secrecy, and the dangers from covering up. To wind it up, the congressional will go on record as demanding an end to official secrecy. If it's handled right, with network TV along with the wire services, it'll blow the lid off. Unless the Air Force gives in, Congress will have to hold a full-scale investigation -- an open one." Let's examine this closely. Hillenkoetter was the critical point man to all this because he was a former CIA director. He was the man they were counting on to bring massive press attention and credibility to the affair, and force the door open. First Keyhoe tried to track down the Navy commander in the UFO case and used somebody he knew in Navy personnel he had used previously. The next day the guy contacted Keyhoe scared to death and said that the CIA showed up within two hours of his contact with Keyhoe and gave him the third degree. He eventually told them the entire Congressional plan involving Hillenkoetter. At this point, the plan began to unravel. Keyhoe wrote, "The damage was done now. With the CIA aware of the Congress group plan, it would go all out to block it. There was still one chance. If Adm. Hillenkoetter was determined to go ahead, regardless of opposition, the Congress gorup would probably back him in an open fight. I knew he should be warned about the CIA agents' action -- especially since he had not yet been told of the Capitol Hill plan." Keyhoe decided the safest course of action was to fly to New York the next day and meet personally with Hillenkoetter. But by the next day Hillenkoetter's letter of resignation from the NICAP Board was on Keyhoe's desk. "In my opinion, NICAP's investigation has gone as far as possible. I know the UFOs are not U.S. or Soviet devices. All we can do now is wait for some action by the UFOs. The Air Force cannot do any more under the circumstances. It has been a difficult assignment for them, and I believe we should not continue to criticize their investigations. I am resigning as a member of the NICAP Board of Governors." Keyhoe commented, "There ws no hint that he had been told about the Congress group's expose' plan. Yet it was the only believable explanation. But Hillenkoetter had been absolutely convinced that the cover-up SHOULD be exposed. How could he have been pressured into this complete reversal? Threats would not have worked -- I knew this tough fighter too well to believe that. The only answer was persuasion at a very high level that it was his duty to help block the Capital Hill showdown -- and to attempt a change in NICAP. But this would still require some powerful reason for continuing the secrecy. That it was some frightening situation, to be kept from the public at all costs, I refused to believe. With all the confidential sources I had established since '49 I would have had at least an inkling. In an effort to find some clue, I went back over all the main points in the UFO evidence. But the cause of the admiral's action was still a mystery." I'm afraid after reading about how absolutely vital Hillenkoetter would have been to the proposed Congressional inquiry in 1962, Jan Aldrich's statements that: "Surmises are fine, but why did it take Hillenkoetter so long to resign? He could have easily resigned earlier when Fahrney left. Have no definite facts one answer is as good as another. Hillenkoetter was never was very active in NICAP. His big contribution was his name." ....must count as revisionist history. Hillenkoetter obviously resigned at that critical moment after 5 years on the NICAP Board because the CIA got to him. His participation in the Congressional inquiry could have blown the whole thing wide open. Or maybe he was acting as a CIA mole from the beginning and didn't want to be put on the spot by Keyhoe. That might have blown his cover. At that point, resignation was the best way to dodge the bullet. But one way or the other, the CIA was definitely involved in sabotaging this Congressional investigation. I don't think even Jan Aldrich believes that Hillenkoetter resigning at this precise moment could be written off to mere coincidence. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 {72} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:33:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:38:40 -0400 Subject: {72} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' April 14th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Part 2 Issue 72 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {72} UK operations? Despite some evidence to the contrary it seems clear that Machrihanish in Scotland has been used as at least a stop-off point on various occasions. The track of the aircraft which made a sonic boom over Holland in August 1992 suggested that it had definitely departed from the UK, and the fact that it is known to have crossed Holland on a southeasterly heading points to Machrihanish as the likely origin for this particular flight. In addition, we know of what can be described as a highly-qualified eye witness, who was in his aircraft on the main ramp at Machrihenish, and saw an unidentifiable jet type land with no lights and disappear at the far end of the airfield, having approached in very tight formation with what he could see to be an F-111. The F-111 was using standard lighting and overshot as the other aircraft landed, suggesting that its role was to provide a 'shadow' for the landing aircraft. Of course, the pure delta shaped Aurora has commonly been quoted as flying in formation with F-111s. While it appears that the delta shape is a disinformation ploy, the involvement of F-111s may in fact be true. This indicates that a hypersonic aircraft has been operating from the UK, and that the ASTRA is that aircraft, but why was it sent to Boscombe Down? The most obvious choice of base for the ASTRA, given that it is operational, would of course have been either Fairford (former home to the 9th RW U-29 detachment) or Mildenhall but both have noise curfews and are closely monitored by the enthusiast fraternity, such that the movements of an exotic new aircraft would be difficult to hide. Indeed, the presence of the first CIA operated U-2s had been detected by enthusiasts during their first overseas deployment to RAF Lakenheath, and was publicised by aviation magazines, prompting a hurried cover story to the effect that the aircraft were engaged in weather reconnaissance. It may well be that this memory was still fresh when a choice of UK base for the ASTRA was made. Boscombe Down offered the promise of impressive security, along with excellent facilities, and being home to the DTEO, DRA, ETPS, SAOEU and AWC made it a viable base for secret operations. The fact that the presence of the aircraft had not been detected before the incident is testament to the logic in not choosing one of the more obvious locations to be UK operating base. If operations were restricted to night, the choice would be limited to a base that routinely maintains night operations. Night flights at Boscombe Down are sufficiently commonplace that the associated noise of what may only be one or two weekly missions would not attract undue attention. It is likely that the UK is benefiting from information concerning the hypersonic and intelligence gathering spheres of the aircraft's operations as a by-product of the 'extraordinary relationship'. The mere fact of a UK presence, as well as various attempts at disinformation by the MoD on behalf of the Americans suggest that the decision to risk an early operational UK deployment was taken on a basis of mutual benefit, as in the early career of the U-2. Blackbird is dead - long live the blackbird? What of the September 1994 decision to return three of the mothballed SR-71s to service after the entire fleet was retired in 1989? The ASTRA's role and the fact that it now represents the cutting edge of technology, suggests the reactivation decision was part of a cover story developed to draw attention away from the ASTRA. The SR-71 represented the obvious 'white-world' method of displaying a renewed commitment to high-speed manned reconnaissance, though this commitment has not been welcomed by the US Air Force itself. Retired USAF Lieutenant General Buster Glasson, who masterminded the Gulf War air campaign, summed up these feelings: "The SR-71 was a fantastic leading-edge technology at one point in time, but we shouldn't keep trying to bring it back from the grave." Yet it was also Lt Gen Glasson who acknowledged the 'debacle' as regards intelligence capability and gathering during the Gulf War. While in favour of UAVs (which are well suited to the loitering role), he has also said that there must not be a reliance on one piece of equipment: "It must be a seamless intelligence system." This would suggest that he acknowledges the continuing requirement for a high-speed reconnaissance platform. Meanwhile Major General Kenneth Israel, chief of the Defence Airborne Reconnaissance Office, has said: "By bringing back the SR-71, we're in a position of really compromising a lot of other capability because it's expensive. We ought to take a very serious look at quickly putting that airplane down." It is strange that the Defence Department's new Technology Development Approach includes a composite of the SR-71, merely Mach 3 capable, aimed at 2000 time frame, as well as hypersonic vehicles, one of which is a 2005 concept for a Mach 8 hydrocarbon-burning aircraft. There is without doubt a concerted effort to disguise the fact that the ASTRA as a hypersonic capable SR-71 replacement is, in fact, already operational. Critically Important Asset? The CIA procured the SR-71's predecessor, the A-12. They operated the A-12s between February 1964 and June 1968 from both the USA and forward operating locations abroad. It is therefore quite plausible that the ASTRA, as an SR-71 replacement, has also been procured by, and is operated for, the CIA. Any CIA connection presupposes the likelihood of a concerted disinformation campaign, which is certainly borne out by the circumstances surrounding the Boscombe incident. Disinformation, as a security tool, was the key to protecting the identity of such projects as the F-117. Prior to the eventual unveiling of the F-117, disinformation began to emerge on the so-called 'F-19', with a basic configuration which even spawned plastic model kits and served very successfully to mask the real configuration and appearance of the F-117. The basic configuration of the 'F-19' actually approximated to the even blacker project (in the form of the ASTRA) which was then under development and which, more importantly, had not even been rumoured at that time. Dissemination of the 'F-19' configuration served to perpetuate the air of secrecy surrounding Lockheed's aircraft, but its usefulness as a disinformation tool was dependent on it being discarded when the F-117 was actually made public. In late 1988 the F-117 was unveiled, and in 1989 the ASTRA took to the air for the first time. The 'F-19', having being exposed as entirely spurious, had been conveniently forgotten by the masses. However, it had a YF-23-like forward fuselage, inward canting twin fins, and short cropped wings, alleged to be foldable to enable carriage in C-5s - and uncanny similarity to the ASTRA. This configuration is of course dissimilar to any of those originally suggested for Aurora, which have ranged from a 90-100ft (27-30m) pure delta, to a 200ft (60m) long cross between the SR-71 and the XB-70 Valkyrie! The NASP connection In December 1960, NASA began a series of studies on a project then known as the Aero Space Plane, or ASP. This was a hydrogen powered, air-breathing vehicle, intended to operate hypersonically. On January 30, 1961, US Secretary of Defence Robert McNamara told the House Armed Services Committee that the USAF was developing "an advanced hypersonic manned vehicle". Meanwhile, the A-12/SR-71 project (supersonic rather than hypersonic) was given the go-ahead in January 1960 and remained a black project until 1964. Could it be that development of an ASP was a convenient cover for development of the A-12/SR-71, given that ASP development was halted in 1965? Douglas, General Dynamics and North American had been contracted to put forward design proposals for the ASP, rather than Lockheed, whose experience with the A-12/SR-71 would surely have been invaluable, had they been able to demonstrate it. Of course, their involvement in such a project would have threatened to compromise the secrecy surrounding the A-12, and thus it may well have been the case that they were not contracted because the ASP programme was principally devised as the cover for the Lockheed project. History repeats itself? Over 20 years later, between 1982 and 1985, teams from the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and NASA resurrected the concept of the hypersonic Aero-Space Plane/Trans-Atmospheric Vehicle (TAV). Under the code name Copper Canyon, DARPA began a series of studies based upon a specific set of both Air Force and Navy requirements, directed towards developments of an SR-71 replacement. Copper Canyon spawned a range of Trans-Atmospheric Vehicles using exotic propulsion systems which almost certainly included the PDWE and/or RBCC. One of the more easily adaptable concepts to emerge was the National Aero Space Plane, most often referred to as the NASP or X-30. The brainchild of DARPA's Robert Williams, it was the NASP which was announced by President Reagan early in 1986 amid a blaze of publicity. Meanwhile, Aurora received its first funding. A National Program Office was set up in Palmdale, California (home also, of course, to the Northrop Skunk Works assembly line) and on April 7, 1986, 7 million dollar contracts to study NASP airframe technologies were awarded to Boeing, General Dynamics, Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell. In October 1987 development contracts were awarded to General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell, and in April 1988 the project was moved out of DARPA and into the Air Force. It was also around this time that US DoD officials were quoted in the New York Times as having revealed development plans for an SR-71 replacement. Northrop was the only major US military aircraft manufacturer not awarded a NASP airframe study contract. This is particularly strange given that the NASP manufacturing plan included an investigation into superplastic forming, reminiscent of the type of challenge facing materials planners on the B-2. Could it be that the principal explanation for Northrop's lack of involvement was their development of the ASTRA for which NASP, just like its predecessor 30 years earlier, was providing cover? NASP was a radically different beast to what we believe the ASTRA to be, but this is explained by the fact that it was intended to operate in orbit up to Mach 25, whereas the ASTRA has only ever been intended to operate at a maximum of between Mach 5 and Mach 8, and within the earth's atmosphere. This would mean that the airframe of the latter is likely to be radically different - much smaller than NASP, requiring much less internal fuel to power what would be a much smaller and simpler powerplant. The ASTRA's YF-23-like dimensions are borne out by the eye witness reports. Back in 1990, NASP deputy director Bob McGuffee had tried to explain why the USA was so anxious to go it alone with NASP, rather than co-operating with the Europeans and Japan. He pointed out that "some parts of the programme are classified - partly because of possible military scenarios in the future." Mr McGuffee's words were a little misleading, because the future had, in fact, already arrived - by 1990 the ASTRA was already test flying. By the time NASP was abandoned in May 1993, it had already consumed approximately 1,400 million dollars. It is very difficult to accept that this level of investment produced no tangible results (NASP remained a 'paper' aeroplane), and much easier to believe that significant portions of it were in fact used to help fund development of the ASTRA. With this developmental work essentially complete in 1993, and operational status beckoning, NASP had now outlived its usefulness, but had certainly served its purpose. Conclusion Having previously been Northrop's best kept secret, we now know the ASTRA's basic shape and capabilities. It appears to be operational from both the USA and non-US locations, but its existence will remain classified for the foreseeable future. We shall have to hope that one day, just like the SR-71, the ASTRA will be allowed to enjoy the limelight. [AIRFORCES MONTHLY is a monthly magazine. Subscription details: 12 issues; UK 30 pounds, Europe 34 pounds, USA 34 pounds (61.20 dollars), Canada 37 pounds, Zone1 46 pounds, Zone2 48 pounds. Surface Mail 34 pounds. - All applications stating name, address, date to commence and remittance to: Subscription Department, AirForces Monthly, Key Publishing Ltd., PO Box 300, Stamford, Lincs., PE9 1NA, UK. Tel. 24hr answer machine: (44)01780 480404. Fax 01780 57812. Internet: http//www.keymags.co.uk - Readers in USA and Canada may place subscriptions by telephoning toll-free 800-688-6247 or by writing to AirForces Monthly, Key Publishing Ltd., PO Box 100, Avenel, NJ 07001] [UK 8]****** Source: UFO Magazine Date: March / April 1997 Sightings of curious triangular or wedge-shaped objects continue unabated, but could current 'unconventional' designs now on the drawing board further exasperate UFO investigators in the future? On 17 December '96, the Ministry of Defence supplied media defence correspondents with a press pack that offered an insight into future aviation research & development programmes - they provided some telling answers. The press pack came hot on the heels of a House of Commons written answer that day. The Ministry of Defence is to spend 35 million Sterling on researching options that could lead to "uninhabited" RAF fighter bombers being flown from desk operators on the ground. The study will help determine whether the RAF go "truly futuristic" or retain conventional designs to replace the Tornado bomber in the second decade of the 21st century. Feasibility studies have been underway for some time, emphasised by this artists's impression of the pilotless bomber released by the MoD. Described in politically correct terms as an "uninhabited air vehicle", RAF sources told Michael Evans, Defence Correspondent for The Times newspaper, that the aircraft could be "..flown by a crew sitting at a desk; from inside a virtual reality cockpit on the ground; or while flying in another aircraft such as an E-3 AWACS early-warning plane". Another option would be to do away with the bomber altogether and replace it with air-to-ground launched missiles from "pallets in the sky" dropped by transporter aircraft. Further exotic options are being examined which will eventually lead to some tough political decisions in determining what role the RAF will undertake well into the next century. The very suggestion that future RAF bombing sorties might be carried out by unmanned aircraft will be treated as 'futuristic nonsense' by some, but the fact that 35 million pounds Stirling is being spent to determine whether it is a viable and practical option, should send shudders down the ranks of RAF pilots and crew. Britain and the United States have a long and rich history of sharing new technologies between their respective defence agencies and manufacturers. The recent alliance between McDonnell Douglas and Boeing will have a significant impact in future aviation research and development programmes. While Boeing's great strength lay in its commercial arm, McDonnell Douglas has been the dominant defence manufacturing player throughout the Cold War. Faced with such a powerful technological alliance, Britain and other European aerospace contractors have now been forced to review their strategic plans for the future. British Aerospace will be among those companies most affected by the Boeing/McDonnell Douglas merger. It may try to forge new alliances of its own, possibly with GEC, Dasa of Germany, Aerospatiale and Dassault of France. As European integration moves ever closer, commercial ties such as these will be suggested more and more by what is perceived to be a threat from the newly formed Boeing/McDonnell Douglas. Sir Richard Evans, chief executive of British Aerospace, has been advocating for years that European aerospace and defence companies need to consolidate to survive. The real question though is how the US merger will impact on new stealth technologies currently underway between British and American defence contractors. If British Aerospace does form a grand European alliance to challenge American dominance, will the United States be willing to continue to share its stealth technology with Britain? Might we see an abrupt end to exotic aviation designs appearing other than in the United States? The key player in that argument is chief rival to Boeing/McDonnel1 Douglas - Lockheed Martin. It is they who are the world's leaders in stealth technologies and a surprising candidate for any possible future partnership with British Aerospace. The British company has a long established rapport with its American counterpart, and while the rest of Europe (and especially France) hesitates, the temptation to forge an alliance with Lockheed Martin will become ever greater. If such an alliance were to occur, that would greatly displease pro- European supporters who fear it would damage an already weakened defence and aerospace sector and thwart their ability to compete on level terms with Boeing/McDonnell Douglas. World News ---------- [W 1]****** Source; BBC Ceefax Date: Thursday 3rd April 1997 Space probe sees possible signs of life Signs of life may have been spotted by a space probe on two of Jupiter's moons, scientists have disclosed. The Galileo spacecraft is thought to have caught glimpses of organic molecules containing carbon and nitrogen on Ganymede and Callisto. These two elements are vital components of living things. The discovery does not necessarily point to the existence of life, but the possibility cannot be ruled out. [W 2]****** Source: The Times Interface newspaper Date: Wednesday 12th March 1997 Bold journey for a crewless craft Nicholas Booth For many years TV viewers have followed Deep Space Nine, the Star Trek spin-off, as it boldly goes on journeys through space and time. Now Nasa scientists are preparing a mission called Deep Space One which will fly past an asteroid and a comet after launch next summer. Although unmanned, Deep Space One will carry the most advanced artificial intelligence software ever sent into space. The software, known as Remote Agent, is being described by its designers as a step on the way to the kind of voice-activated, intelligent computers which the Star Trek crew would use. "The goals of the Remote Agent development are twofold: to reduce the cost of exploration and to extend exploration to realms of space where no ground-controlled craft could venture," says Dr Bob Rasmusen, a computer autonomy expert at Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which is developing the mission. The Remote Agent software will correct on-board problems by reasoning with itself to find out what has gone wrong. The large distances involved in planetary exploration mean that communications from Earth take too long to arrive during emergencies. Sometimes spacecraft have to hibernate for months when they pass behind the sun, as seen from Earth. Deeps Space One is part of Nasa's continuing efforts to develop smaller, less expensive spacecraft able to fly autonomous missions at a cost of less than 100 million dollars per voyage. The Remote Agent software means the mission can be controlled by less than a dozen ground controllers instead of the hundreds of people currently used to run a major space mission. Other missions in the programme will include a Mars lander, a mission to Venus and an advanced mapping mission from Earth orbit. The Remote Agent software comprises three packages which, Nasa officials believe will reduce costs by 60 per cent back on Earth. One, known as High-Level Planning and Scheduling, will anticipate "goals" rather than detailed instructions for the weeks ahead. The fault protection part of the software is named Livingstone after the legendary explorer and acts as a virtual chief engineer. If something goes wrong, Livingstone uses models of how the spacecraft should behave under the circumstances. A final portion of the software, Smart Executive, executes the minute details from the Planning and Scheduling goals. Nasa scientists have also ensured that if the spacecraft malfunctions, ground controllers could perform the equivalent of a labotomy. [W 3]****** Source: (letters page) UFO Magazine Date: March/April 1997 Dear Sir, While reading an article about Area 51 I came across some information which was new to my eyes. Apparently George Knapp of KLAS TV in Las Vegas has in his possession, videotape testimony of a man who organised several big military operations out of Nellis AFB in Nevada, or Area 51. The man claims that the American government has aquired alien technology and bodies since the 1950's. Unfortunately, this tape will not be screened until the man has died. Can you shed any further light on this? From: Paul Schwar, London, England Editor: I don't recall George Knapp saying anything other than he hopes the canned interviews will be broadcast later in the year. What I can promise those attending his lecture at London's Imperial College on the weekend of 21-22 June is some quite remarkable revelations and film footage aquired from Area 51 and two trips to the former Soviet Union that will have the audience on the edge of their seats. uk.ufo.nw says: If any of you out there have any further details on the videotape's and interviews mentioned please mail us. Also we would like to hear from anyone who manages to get along to see George Knapps lecture in London. Mail us at: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk [W 4]****** Souce: The Times Interface newspaper Date: 26th February 1997 Spaceship that bodly goes and goes and goes Twenty-five years ago this week Pioneer 10 was launched on the first space voyage to the stars, its mission to explore only as far a Jupiter (Nicholas Booth writes.) But this pioneer just kept on going and is now 10 billion kilometres distant on the edge of the solar system - and still travelling at speed, relative to the sun, of 12.5 kilometres per second. Despite the distance involved, Nasa's Deep Space Network - large radio antennae dotted around the Earth - is still picking up Pioneer 10's signal, although it now takes 18 hours, 32 minutes and 37 seconds to be sent and confirmation returned. The craft is powered by a small lump of plutonium which is decaying but still generating enough heat to the keep the craft going in the freezing depths where the Sun is only a bright star. But Pioneer 10 now transmits back to Earth with a power of only 8 watts and by the time the signal reaches Earth, it has dissipated to one sextillionth of a watt. To hear this faint whisper from the edge of space, the electronics have to be chilled by liquid hydrogen to remove even the noise of molecules which would otherwise drown the signal. Now Pioneer 10's long run is coming to an end. Nasa plans to switch it off in March because of funding cutbacks. http://pyroeis.arc.nasa.gov/pioneer/PNStat.html [W 5]****** Source: The Daily Mail newspaper Date: Wednesday 19th February 1997 Where 20 pounds buys you plenty of space Land speculators are being offered a real bargain - 640 acres plots for just 20 pounds each. The catch is that the properties are on Mars. The land is being 'sold' by a company using the Internet. A spokesman for the firm said: "Any dispute about ownership will be settled with any future government of Mars." [W 6]****** Source: The Sun newspaper Date: Friday 28th March 1998 (note: this incident has been widely publicised on television news and other newspapers) 39 kill themselves in pact to join aliens aboard huge UFO hiding behind the comet >From Caroline Graham in San Diego Thirty-Nine members of a bizarre cult killed themselves to join aliens in a huge spacecraft hiding behind comet Hale-Bopp, it was revealed yesterday. The tragic weirdos - all computer fanatics - were told by their 6ft 7in guru: "We must go to a higher place - It is time to shed the containers that other, less wordly, ones call bodies. The spaceship is behind the comet." The astonishing story behind the mass suicide was unravelled yesterday by a former member of the Higher Sorce sect. Known only as Rio, he said he received two "farewell videos" on Wednesday which had been taped by cult members last Friday. He told his boss: "One was recorded by the leader, Father John Doe - He told how the comet was a sign they were to leave this Earth and travel to a higher planet." Bodies "The other tape was from my friends, saying goodbye. They said, 'Do not be upset. We are calm and at peace with ourselves. We are ready to go'." After watching the videos Rio contacted police saying: "Please see if my friends are ok. I'm scared." Officers rushed to a secluded 1 million pounds mansion in the megarich Californian town of Rancho Santa Fe, 20 miles north of San Diego. They found the bosies of 39 men and women - all aged between 16 and 28 - lying on their backs in rows. Their arms were at their sides and each person had a purple shroud folded into a triangle covering their face. There were no signs of physical injury and it was believed the victims died one by one after taking overdoses of sleeping tablets during the week-long period when Hale-Bopp was closest to the earth. As corpse after corpse was carried from the luxury home at 18241 Colina Norte a horrified cop said: "I have never seen anything like it - the bodies were everywhere. They looked like they were asleep." Another cop said the scene inside the house "chilled me to the bone." He added "All the victims were wearing identical black trousers and black training shoes. They were lined up in precise rows with their arms by their side. Some of them were on matresses, others on beds. They were in several rooms but the thing thatstruck me was how neat and peaceful the scene was. It was almost as if they had measured the distance between themselves to make sure everything was perfect. The house was spotless. There was not a cup or saucer out of place. The cushions were plumped up. It was eerie." Rio's shocked boss Nick Matzorkis, of the Interact Entertinment Group, said: "Rio left the group a month ago - he turned to me with a white face seeing the tapes. His hands were trembling. He said, 'They've done it'. - One 15 minute tape was from the cult leader. He looked about 70 years old and had staring eyes. - He said they were going because they believed the comet was a sign. - He said, 'The space craft is behind the comet. Others cannot see it but to us, it is a sign. When it gets close enough, we will leave to join it'." Another source described the charismatic, grey-haired chief - only ever refered to as Father John of Father Doe - as "like Lurch from The Adams Family". Last night police were still trying to trace the mysterious figure. In America, John Doe is the name used by police for unidentified corpses. Matzorkis, 39, went on: "Rio said they believed the UFO would take them to a place called Sirius. - He said the cult members were all computer nerds who followed the leader with a religious zeal. - He left because he thought they were getting too weird. None of the members smoked, drank or had sex. They had to keep 'pure' to travel onwards to this higher level. - Rio told me, 'They think the aliens will take them to Sirius which has much higher life forms than earth'." Shocking Sirius is know as the Dog Star - and is the brightest in the night sky. The deaths in one of America's biggest mass suicides stunned the nation. President Bill Clinton said last night: "It's heartbreaking, it's sickening, it' shocking." The Higher Source cult operated as a business which designed interactive Internet pages for companies at around 20,000 pounds a time. And, although no suicide notes were found at the house, the sect left a grim message on its own Worldwide Web site, called Heaven's Gate. It included a drawn picture of an alien, with the words: "This is what we believe our friends out there will look like." The website referred to previous mass suicides, including the deaths of 81 Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas, in 1993. And it said: "We fully expect and look forward to boarding a spacecraft to go to a higher place. - We believe a time will come when we leave our physical vehicles and move on." The rambling explanation of the cult's beliefs went on: "The keys to heaven's gate are here again in Ti and Doe, the UFO two, as they were in Jesus, the father 2,000 years ago. Hale-Bopp's approach is the marker we've been waiting for, the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the level above humans to take us home to their world." The crop-haired Higher Source members treated their nine-bedroomed mansion like a temple. People living nearby were unconcerned by the neat, smartly dressed organisation which settled with ease in a town ruputed to have more millionaires per square mile than any other in America. The house, complete with heated swimming pool and floodlit tennis courts, was rented from Iranian born Sam Koutchesfahani, who was anxious to sell it. Estate agent Bob Dyson, 43, showed would-be buyers around last Thursday. He said: "The cult members made me take off my shoes and put on surgical slippers. No one spoke apart from the cult leader. - The other men and women were like robots. They were all dressed the same and had identical crew cuts. They refered to each other as brother and sister. - They told me the house would not be available for viewing this week beacause they were planning 'religious ceremonies' including a ceremony of death. I thought they were harmless wackos." Customers of the sect's company described it as businesslike. One of them, San Diego Polo Club manager Tom Goodspeed, said last night: "I had a working relationship with six or seven members of the group. They were very soft spoken, quiet and some of the most pleasant people I've ever worked with." Superstitious societie have long believed that comets herald impending doom. And a rumour that a UFO has trailed comet Hale-Bopp has been circulating for months on the Internet. But experts say an object photographed by an amateur astronomer was really a star distorted by the optics of his telescope. [graphic depicts page from the sects website] Red Alert Hale-Bopp Brings Closure to: HEAVENS GATE As was promised - the keys to Heaven's Gate are here again in Ti and Do (The UFO Two) as they were in Jesus and His Father 2000 yrs. ago. Whether Hale-Bopp has a "companion" or not is irrelevant from our perspective. However, its arrival is joyously very significant to us at "Heaven's Gate." They joy is that our Older Member in the Evolutionary Level Above Human (the "Kingdom of Heaven") has made it clear ro us that Hale-Bopp's approach is the "marker" we've been waiting for - the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the Level Above Human to take us home to "Their World" - in the literal Heavens. Our 22 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion--"graduation" from the Human Evolutionary Level we are happily prepared to leave "this world" and go with Ti's crew. If you study the material on this website you will hopefully understand our joy and what our purpose it. [also in this article] Man Who Saw Omen of Doom By Rachel Bletchley Prophet Nostradamus predicted the Hale-Bopp comet would be an omen of doom more than 400 years ago. The 16th century astrologer wrote: "The sky will burn at 45 degrees in the Millenium as the Apocalypse approaches." Academics who interpret his writings believes that refers to the brillient comet which sparked the San Diego cult to commit mass suicide. They say Hale-Bopp will "burn" - or be closest to the sun - during April at a position of 45 degrees latitude. Horrors Nostradamus predicted the Apocalypse, or the end of the world, in July 1999. An astonishing number of the French soothsayer's predictions have apparently come true. He is said to have forecast the rise of Hitler, the Second World War, the horrors of the Gulf War and a "wicked tyrant" - Saddam Hussein. Students of his books say he also foresaw the AIDS epidemic, civil war in Yugoslavia and the Great Fire of London. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. Connect to irc.mirage.co.uk and join us on channel #UFO For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@maelstrom.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 72} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:33:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:15:35 -0400 Subject: 72} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' April 14th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Part 1 Issue 72 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {72} In this issue: ------------- Editorial: --------- Internet Relay Chat made easier World Wide United Kingdom UFO Network Fly Groom Lake / Area 51 yourself United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] Britain and US in "STEALTHY" link-up [UK 2] Meteors spark rash of emergency calls [UK 3] Birmingham International Airport [UK 4] Why any old ion fuels the future [UK 5] Viewers voted 'do you believe aliens exist' [UK 6] RAF at full stretch - warning [UK 7] The truth is out - Boscombe Down Stealth Crash [UK 8] Sightings of curious triangular or wedge-shaped objects World News ---------- [W 1] Space probe sees possible signs of life [W 2] Bold journey for a crewless craft [W 3] UFO Mag letter [W 4] Spaceship that bodly goes and goes and goes [W 5] Where 20 pounds buys you plenty of space [W 6] 39 kill themselves in pact to join aliens Internet Relay Chat made easier Connecting to our weekly IRC (Internet Relay Chat) meetings on Saturday nights is now easier than ever before. Our meeting's begin at 11pm (2300hrs) UK time. Everyone is welcome and you will be made most welcome. By simply using your Java compatible Web Browser and going to either of the below sites, you will find pages there to join in using your actual Web Browser. Give it a try...it's easy. http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ For those of you using any of the IRC programs, further connecting details can be found at the end of this e-zine. My thanks to Paul & Crow for help with the Java. World Wide United Kingdom UFO Network Due to the rather clever way that the list server program i.e. the program that we use to send out the e-zine to you, can be interrogated we have rather surprisingly and delightfully found the following. The e-zine now goes out to subscribers in 40 countries. We are now truly world-wide. Out of interest here are those countries: * Country * ------- * Argentina * Australia * Austria * Belgium * Brazil * Canada * Chile * Colombia * Denmark * Finland * France * Germany * Great Britain * Greece * Ireland * Israel * Italy * Japan * Lithuania * Malaysia * Mexico * Netherlands * New Zealand * Norway * Peru * Philippines * Poland * Portugal * Romania * Russia * Saudi-Arabia * Slovenia * South Africa * Spain * Sweden * Switzerland * Taiwan * Turkey * USA * United Arab Emirates Fly Groom / Area 51 yourself by Leo de Vries Note: This is a free download for Microsofts Flight Simulator Groom Lake Area 51 scenery for FS5.1/FSFW95 (FS6) Version 2 with mountains This is version 2 scenery for Groom Lake,aka Area 51. This was re- created using materials found from the net. Documentation is hard to find for this airport so I used some imagination in creating the layout. I've added some of the surrounding mountains and roads. There are a couple 9000+ foot peaks including Bald Mountain, so be careful. Also, I am including a fictious ranch called, what else, Groom Ranch on the other side of the Groom Mountain Range. Here you will find a small airstrip where you can launch flights to "spy" on area 51 :-) The required Zip file can be obtained from: GROOM951.ZIP - Scenery for Groom Lake (Area 51) version 2 (MS FS6.0) ftp.demon.nl in the directory /pub/ibmpc/flightsim or from the link at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** Source: BBC Ceefax Date: Thursday 3rd April 1997 Britain and US in "STEALTHY" link-up British and US defence contractors are developing an armoured reconnaisance vehicle using stealth technology to help make it invisible to radar. Such technology has already been used on the US Air Force F-117 and B2 jets and has reportedly been employed on a US Navy warship. No F-117 jets were shot down during the Gulf War despite numerous bombing raids. The new armoured vehicle could replace Britain's Scorpian and Scimitar tanks. [UK 2]****** Source: BBC Ceefax Date: Thursday 27th March 1997 Meteors spark rash of emergency calls Vivid flashes of light caused by meteors hurtling into the Earth's atmosphere have sparked a flood of emergency calls. Sightings of red and green streaks in the night sky were reported along most of Britain's east coast. In many cases people called emergency services, fearing they were distress flares from boats in trouble. But an RAF spokesman said meteor showers wee normal in late March. [UK 3]****** Source: uk.ufo.nw Location: Birmingham International Airport, West Midlands, UK Date: Thursday 20th March 1997 Time: 0415 hrs Weather: Dry and fresh Visibility: Completely clear sky Temperature: +7 deg C Light pollution: Minimal Witnesses: Two police officers Comet Halebopp During the evening of the 19th and throughout the hours of darkness a.m. 20th March 1997 Comet Hale-bopp was clearly visible complete with tail in our Northwesterly skies. It was as you can imagine something of a spectacle. Every time one looked into the sky it was there in all its glory. At 0415hrs the two police officers who were on mobile patrol stopped their vehicle in a dark and almost free from light pollution area to take a closer look at the comet. The comet remained in its northwesterly position at an approximate 45 degree angle from the ground. Both officers just happened to look up into the sky directly above them at a 90 degree angle and saw a very bright white light flash for a split second in the sky. "It was almost as if someone very high up in the sky directly over us was looking down and taking a photograph with a flash gun" one officer said. "If the incident had been filmed and you could have viewed the film frame by frame you would probably have one frame where it would show the whole area bathed in a bright white light. It happened that quick." The officer continued "I wouldn't have mentioned it if my colleague hadn't have said 'what was that? did you see that flash of light?'" Both officers have worked at the airport for some considerable time working nights as part of their regular shift pattern. They are fully aware of what aircraft look like during the hours of darkness and have also seen their fair share of shooting stars. But this was completely different. There were no aircraft in the sky prior to or after the flash. The intensity of the brightness for the split second it was seen suggested to them that it was not a shooting star or a weather condition. "I got the impression that the heart of the light was an oblong shape" said one of the officers. uk.ufo.nw says: To date no further reports of a similar sighting have been received. The skies were checked at the same time for the following few nights but to no avail. [UK 4]****** Source: The Times Interface newspaper Date: Wednesday 12th March 1997 Why any old ion fuels the future Science fiction turns into fact as Clarke's theories shoot into space Anjana Ahuja Last week saw the opening of the Arthur C. Clarke building at the Defence and Evaluation Research Agency in Farnborough, Hampshire. How apt, then, that one of the laboratories on the fledgling site is devoted to ion propulsion, an idea first espoused in science fiction novels. According to Neil Wallace and David Fern, who direct the research, ion thrusters will direct the spacecraft of the future. Why? Because they are cleaner and more compact than their chemical rivals, such as hydrazine. Whereas chemicals are corrosive and explosive, ion propellants remain inert until activated. Because ion propellants are more efficient, only a tenth of the conventional propellant mass is needed. Less bulk means longer operating lifetimes for satellites whose orbits need regular tweaking. It also means cheaper launches. The technique uses xenon, a gas belonging to the family of noble gasses. This chemical clan is renowned for its lack of reactivity. Ideal if you want it to sit quietly in a million dollar satellite for most of the time. Through bombardment with electrons, the atoms in the xenon gas are stripped of one of their outer electrons. Because the resulting plasma is soup of charged particles, it will respond enthusiastically to an electric field. So when 1100-volt field is applied over a gap of less than a millimetre, the xenon ions shoot across the gap. This exhaust velocity, which can reach 60 km/s, creates a thrust which propels the spacecraft forward. "Chemicals can only achieve around the 3 km/s mark," Dr Fern says. "Because thrust is a direct trade-off between mass and velocity, the higher the speed, the less mass you need." Ion propulsion may also have another important spin-off. Certain orbits are difficult to achieve fro Earth, such as the solar polar orbit travelled by the Ulysses spacecraft. In these cases, craft pass large bodies (Jupiter, for example) to get a gravitational kick. These so-called slingshot manoeuvres can take years to achieve, and launch must take place during a narrow "window" of dates in order for the kicks to be timed correctly. Ion thrusters remove the necessity for such lengthy detours, although it might take as long to reach the orbit. However, these measured orbit changes would cover more interesting regions of space, and banish reliance on windows. [UK 5]****** Source: Teletext 'Your Verdict' on Aliens - phone in poll Date: week of 31st March to 7th April 1997 The US Pentagon has dismissed UFOs so we asked if you believe aliens do exist - Viewers voted: YES 88% - NO 12% uk.ufo.nw say: From time to time you will see reports in the e-zine sourced from: Teletext & BBC Ceefax. These are free text services available to all UK television users. [UK 6]****** Source: Teletext News Date: Saturday 5th April 1997 RAF at full stretch - warning The RAF is at full-stretch and further commitments would threaten safety and the air force's operations edge. Chief of the Air Staff Sir Michael Graydon is warning the RAF urgently needs a period of stability after years of successive cutbacks. [UK 7]****** From: duncan@life.com Source: AirForces Monthly Date: March 1997 The Truth is Out What is the truth behind the mystery crash two and a half years ago at Boscombe Down, the Ministry of Defence's top secret flight test centre? Ren Hoek and Marco P Van der Valk can now reveal the facts. The Ministry of Defence would have you believe that nothing untoward occurred at Boscombe Down, Wiltshire on the night of September 26, 1994. But something sinister did happen at the airfield that night. The fact that the incident involved the USA's most highly-classified black project aircraft helps to explain the scale (and to some extent the subtlety) of the disinformation campaign which ensued. The story had begun to unfold on that windswept night as the aircraft began its take-off run along Runway 23. Whatever happened in the few seconds following application of take-off power was sufficiently catastrophic for the two American crew members to abort departure immediately. Military controllers at the London Air Traffic Control Centre (LATCC) were alerted either directly or indirectly to the fact that a serious incident had occurred, and that the runway was blocked. Later that night, the stranded aircraft was seen by at least one witness near the eastern end of Boscombe Down's Runway 23. A tarpaulin-covered frame had already been erected above the aircraft's forward section, around which were number of emergency vehicles. The rear section appeared unnaturally elevated by virtue of an apparent nose wheel collapse, the only clearly definable characteristic being inward canting twin fins. Early the next day, an Army Air Corps Agusta A109 transited to Boscombe Down from Bournemouth-Hurn. All four of these helicopters are exclusively operated by the SAS (Special Air Service), which has a base at Poole, near Hurn. Is it possible that a covert sealing-off operation was set in motion? It has also been suggested that at least one RAF Chinook was scrambled from Odiham to Boscombe Down late that night for just that purpose. The aftermath On September 28, the DRA retired one of its remaining Buccaneers, XV344, ironically nicknamed Nightbird. Though unremarkable in itself, this occasion afforded an unexpected opportunity... As the Buccaneer was towed out of the DRA/DTEO hangar on Boscombe Down's north side, and before the hangar doors were hastily shut, the incident aircraft was seen in the forward left hand corner of the hangar, which is not visable from the normal viewing area a short distance beyond the threshold of Runway 23. The entire centre section was covered by tarpaulin, but both the front and rear of the aircraft were visible. The most prominent features were the inward canting twin fins and chines extending rearwards from the nose. The canopy was open and particularly noticeable because it was hinged at the front and not the rear. The aircraft was large fighter size and was painted charcoal grey. The sighting was followed that same evening by a separate sighting of a grey USAF C-5 Galaxy on the ground at Boscombe Down. The aircraft had been monitored on airband radio as it cancelled its flight plan to the USAF European HQ at Ramstein in Germany, and requested a diversion to Boscombe Down. On arrival, the C-5 parked on the ramp outside DRA/DTEO hangar. It is likely that the incident aircraft was normally housed in one of Boscombe's hardened air shelters (HAS). However, in the aftermath of the incident the first priority would have been to move the aircraft under cover to a place where the C-5 could undertake a loading or unloading procedure with minimum risk. With the taxiways leading to the shelters unable to accommodate an aircraft as large as the C-5, the most logical option would indeed have been to move the aircraft to the DRA/DTEO hangar. Despite these precautions, an unidentifiable tarpaulin-covered object was seen to be loaded into the C-5. The visit by the C-5 represents a crucial link in the chain of events. Its arrival was unexpected by virtue of the inbound flight plan to Ramstein, indicating that maximum effort was made to disguise Boscombe Down as the intended destination. Once on the ground, however, the outbound flight plan was filed using Boscombe Down as the point of departure. This flight plan (evidence of which has since disappeared) used a nonstandard callsign of Lanc 18, but more noteworthy was its destination which was listed as 'KPMD'. This is the ICAO airfield designator for Palmdale, California, better known as Air Force Plant 42 and home to the assembly lines of both the Lockheed and Northrop Advanced Development Companies. Palmdale also happens to be the operating base for the two specially modified C-5Cs (serials 68-0213 and 68-0216) officially used for carriage of satellite equipment and other outsize loads in support of the Space Shuttle Programme. The mystery is - why were these aircraft not modified for this purpose until at least the early 1990's to support a programme which had already been existing for over 10 years, unless they are in fact used for another purpose entirely. The eye witness who observed the C-5 also saw the departure of a USAF Beech C-12 shortly after the C-5 on the night of the 28th - a visit which has not been documented before - while an apparently unmarked Boeing 707 was also visible at Boscombe Down, It is believed that a similarly-unmarked Boeing 737/T-43 was present that night. This was undoubtedly one of the aircraft operated by EG&G Special Projects based at Las Vegas and used exclusively as crew/technician support for black projects operating from the Groom Lake and Papoose Lake bases northwest of Las Vegas. On the morning of September 29th, an unknown aircraft using the callsign N1178X was monitored on the London Military Southwest frequency (133.3) as it climbed on a north-westerly heading towards the Exmor reporting point before requesting an upper airways routing northbound on the Upper Alpha 25 airway. Although N1178X is actually allocated to a US-based Piper Cherokee light aircraft, the altitude and airways request prove that the aircraft monitored was definitely a jet. It becomes all the more interesting to note that the airways join was followed by a request for a routing "direct to Machrihanish", a VOR in western Scotland better known as the airfield which has been linked, somewhat fancifully it had seemed until now, to operations by the mysterious Aurora project! So why was a bogus callsign used? N1178X could have been an EG&G 737, on a tasking sufficiently secret to justify the use of such a callsign. Interestingly, three of EG&G's six 737s are officially registered N5175U, N5176Y and N5177C. Note that the middle three characters are '175','176' and '177' respectively. Is it therefore more than a coincidence that the same three characters of the bogus callsign read '178'? If, however, there is any significance in the 'X' suffix to the callsign, it may be worth noting that when CIA-operated U-2s were ferried back to the USA from forward operating locations abroad for rework or maintenance, they too carried and used fictitious callsigns with an 'X' suffix. A mystery Gulfstream blows in The possibility of a CIA connection is bolstered by evidence surrounding a Gulfstream IV registered N604M which visited Boscombe Down in the immediate aftermath. This passed through on the morning of Sunday October 9, although the DTEO at Boscombe claimed it was collecting a VIP who had played golf at a nearby club! Documented movements of N604M through the UK in the weeks following the incident have raised a number of questions regarding its exact role. Prior to its visit to Boscombe Down, the aircraft had made a one-hour stop at Heathrow on the evening of October 5 and by October 7 had appeared at Southampton. One night before the incident (possibly September 22) both the University of Southampton and RAF Lyneham had reportedly tracked an unknown aircraft in Boscombe Down's vicinity. Perhaps significantly, the University of Southampton has a world renowned Institute of Sound and Vibration Research (ISVR) which has specialist equipment for research in this field. The same night witnesses had heard a jet aircraft making an unusual noise described as a "loud rumbling like a freight train". This was reported on local TV news. The whereabouts of N604M on October 6 and 8 are unclear, but by the 9th it had arrived at Boscombe Down, from where it departed to Luton. It was seen at Luton surrounded by very tight security, and remained there for approximately one hour before departing to Farmingdale, New York. This is a routinely-used corporate airfield, but is also adjacent to the plant used by the Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems and Integration Division, the significance of which will become clear shortly. Meanwhile, on November 12, 1995 - well over a year after the events at Boscombe Down - N604M had positioned in to Heathrow from Exeter, Devon, again under extreme security. It left for Geneva two days later and flew back to the USA via Shannon on the 15th. Exeter had also played host to a visit by USAF EC-137D (serial 67-19417) on October 31, 1994 (little more than a month after the incident). This EC-137D is the only one of the USAF-operated C-135/C-137 derivatives to use its construction number as its military serial. This justifies the belief that although 'officially' operated by the USAF from Robins AFB, Georgia, it is in fact used by a range of Government agencies, quite probably including the CIA. As such the fact that both it and the Gulfstream visited Exeter may be worthy note. Of more direct relevance is the fact that this aircraft is almost totally devoid of markings except for the very small serial painted on the rear fuselage, a serial which would only be discernible in daylight. Could 19417 therefore have been the mystery 707 seen at Boscombe Down on the night of September 28, 1994? Other known visits of the Gulfstream to the UK (in January 1995 when it departed to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and in January 1996) have used Luton. It is noteworthy that the aircraft has paid several visits to both Luton and Heathrow, because American business jets tend to favour one London airport over another due to handling arrangements. This suggests the Luton visits may be directed towards a specific purpose. Luton, like Farmingdale, can all to easily be dismissed as a routinely-used corporate facility, but it is also the nearest Gulfstream IV usable airfield to the British Military Intelligence (MI6) base at RAF Chicksands, Bedfordshire. MI6 has always had a particularly close working relationship with the CIA. Since the closure of Alconbury and Bedford/Thurleigh, Luton is also one of the closest usable airfields to the facility at Molesworth in Cambridgeshire now used as a Joint Analysis Centre for live video and other intelligence collected by US reconnaissance aircraft and downlinked via the Intelsat 602 satellite. Speculation regarding the significance of N604M's movements is tempting, but one thing is clear - despite the DTEO's claims to be encouraging increased corporate usage of Boscombe Down, it is highly unusual for an aircraft such as the Gulfstream to have visited this airfield, unless of course its passenger had good reason to be there... Per ardua ad ASTRA The Boscombe Down incident aircraft is designated ASTRA, was referred to as AV-6 (Air Vehicle Six, its construction number), and was allocated USAF serial 90-2414. It routinely used frequencies in the 500 to 510mhz range (highly unusual and beyond the tuning range of standard UHF scanner radios) and was operating with the callsign Blackbuck 11. It had been operating in tandem with at least one other aircraft. ASTRA is an acronym standing for Advanced Stealth Technology Reconnaissance Aircraft. The prime contractor is Northrop, with McDonnell Douglas (MDC) involvement, and the aircraft is directly related to the YF-23 (unsuccessful ATF contender). No doubt most controversial of all, the ASTRA is believed to be the Mach 5+ hypersonic SR-71 replacement most commonly referred to until now as Aurora. This, along with its YF-23 lineage, will be a major surprise to those who either denied the existence of a manned hypersonic project, or assumed it to be a product of Lockheed's 'Skunk Works'. Lockheed has consistently denied involvement in a hypersonic project but in June 1991, Northrop had quietly set up its own version of the 'Skunk Works', called the Advanced Technology and Design Center, to pursue what it acknowledged to be both manned and unmanned 'black' project developments. There has been no clue since then as to what projects have been developed, but it now seems clear that the Center's establishment could have coincided with the start of ASTRA's production. It is also notable that Northrop always refers to its prototypes as Prototype Air Vehicle (PAVs), thus lending weight to the theory that the reference to 90-2414 merely as Air Vehicle (AV) suggests it to be a production aircraft and in operational service. The reference by Air Vehicle number is reminiscent of a system the CIA used to employ when flying U-2s. They identified these aircraft by the Lockheed construction number, known as the 'Article' number, rather than the allocated USAF serials, in order to minimise exposure. In fact these Article numbers were the only visual form of identification worn by the U-2s when flying CIA missions. Why F-23? - the unanswered questions The applicability of the YF-23 to the ATF role may well have been undermined by development of the ASTRA. Unlike Lockheed with its YF-22, Northrop did not attempt to demonstrate the missile launch capability of the YF-23, nor did it explore high-alpha (other than in the wind-tunnel), nor did it incorporate the vectored thrust option patently favoured by the USAF. Interestingly, an early 1995 report which claimed Aurora had been cancelled, suggested that its powerplant had incorporated an advanced form of vectored thrust! It was claimed that the powerplant was indeed a pulse detonation wave engine (PDWE) as had always been assumed, though a rocket-based combined cycle (RBCC) engine has also been put forward as a likely option. Meanwhile, it was also notable that Northrop/MDC flew considerably fewer hours and sorties with the YF-23s (65 hours in 50 sorties, compared to 92 hours in 74 sorties for the YF-22s), and used some parts on the YF-23s from existing MDC types such as the F-15E (cockpit software) and F/A-18 (undercarriage). Despite the combination of cost-cutting measures adopted by Northrop/MDC, their overall expenditure was no less than Lockheeds. The Lockheed PW F119-powered YF-22 was selected for the ATF role in April 1991, leaving Northrop/MDC's YF-23 as the unsuccessful aircraft, and GE's revolutionary variable cycle F120 as the unsuccessful engine. Why is it, then, that the maximum supersonic cruise speed without afterburner ('supercruise') attained by the F120-powered YF-23 has to this day remained classified? Speed, however, was not the YF-23's only asset. Paul Metz, Northrop's chief test pilot on the programme, highlighted its excellent roll and pitch performance, superb aerial refuelling characteristics (the SR-71) was infamously demanding in this respect and impressive supersonic turn capability. This is certainly a sound basis on which to develop an SR-71 replacement. There may be a remote possibility that the YF-23 prototypes, which somewhat unusually were rolled out of Edwards AFB and not Palmdale, were not flown merely as ATF contenders. It was said that the aircraft were moved into secure storage at Edwards in January 1991 immediately the ATF test flying ceased, yet they did not become visible there until early 1994. Could the YF-23 have been a failed attempt to mould a pre-existing airframe optimised for stealth and speed cruise to a totally different role or was it even a ploy to divert a certain amount of funding to the ongoing development of the ASTRA, in which it may have played a crucial role? Northrop/MDC's approach to the ATF competition was inflexible - the finished YF-23 was, unlike the YF-22, almost identical to the original 1985 proposal - but were the team inflexible for a reason? Was the YF-23 a means to an end rather than a realistic attempt to secure the ATF contract? Northrop/MDC SR-71 replacement Lockheed's recent expertise in stealth technology was built around the faceting technique developed for the F-117. Northrop, however, approached stealth differently and incorporated these ideas into both the YF-23 and B-2. It appears that the Northrop approach was considered more suitable in overcoming the major problems in developing a stealthy hypersonic successor to the SR-71. MDC, meanwhile, have made in-depth studies of hypersonic strike aircraft as well as RBCC engines. With stealth having been a prime concern in the development of the ASTRA, it should be noted that as far back as 1968 Northrop was evaluating electrical forces to condition the air flowing around an aircraft at supersonic speeds in an attempt to reduce radar cross section. As recently as January 1996, Pentagon officials admitted that there are at least two 'black' projects flying from the secret base at Groom Lake, Nevada testing this technology, which involves activation of an electrical charge to attenuate radar reflections. Previously employed disinformation tactics suggest that this 'information' leak may actually indicate at least one such project to be operational already. The same Pentagon officials alluded to associated research which has already shown that aerodynamic drag (including airframe heating) can be reduced, and shock wave build-up delayed, by applying such an electrical charge. These benefits would be crucial to the effectiveness of an inherently stealthy design that cruise hypersonically, and of course could represent the 'Advanced Stealth' technology embodied in the ASTRA. It is beleived that Northrop's own B-2 was the first type to employ such field generation devices, on the wing leading edge. The evidence suggests that Northrop uses a similar system on the ASTRA to solve the problem of heat-induced radar cross section, thus combining hypersonic capability with stealth. Further evidence supporting the technical advances made by Northrop emerged in February 1996, when a Northrop subcontractor inadvertently released information which indicates that the company has also been testing a distributed-exhaust/pressurised wing concept. The technology was said to be related to "at least one US Department of Defence 'black' aircraft project". It may be that the ASTRA is actually the project involved (rather than a special forces transport type as suggested), given that the concept involves using bleed air from the engines and pumping it through the wing's upper surface, and given that the YF-23 had bleed air doors in the wing upper surface near the leading edge wing root, the purpose of which was claimed to be suction removal of the boundary layer from the underwing air intake. Development time frame In late April 1996, the USAF released first details of Northrop's Tacit Blue stealth technology demonstrator. The existence of this project had hitherto been entirely secret. It was announced that the aircraft was flown for 250 hours between February 1982 and February 1985 to test technology eventually used in the B-2 'and other stealthy aircraft programmes'. Details on the rear fuselage, and more significantly, the wing leading edges have not been fully divulged. The aircraft's general planform equates much more to the YF-23 than it does to the B-2, given that it has stub wings and twin fins. An interesting feature is the single upper fuselage air intake, despite the fact the aircraft had twin engines. It seems quite likely that Tacit Blue was actually the stealth technology demonstrator for the ASTRA in the same way that Have Blue was for the F-117, the time frame certainly fits. The first evidence of flights by hypersonic vehicles emerged in 1989, with eye witness reports of the characteristic 'doughnuts on a rope' contrails produced by the pulsing motion of a PDWE, which detonated the fuel in the jet pipe and expels some of the gases created through inlets at the forward end of the pipe. At this early stage in flight testing there were probably no more than two prototypes in the programme, with 1987 fiscal serials corresponding to the original project go-ahead. In February 1985 (just after Tacit Blue was grounded), there was an 'inadvertent' leak in the US federal budget regarding Aurora funding, which showed 80 million dollars being requested for FY1986, rising to a massive 2.2 billion dollars in 1987, the same year in which the YF-23 prototypes were funded. If the ASTRA was nested in Aurora, or indeed came to be the new name used when Aurora's cover had been blown, then the funding request is consistent with the funding of one or two prototypes in 1987, which would not have been completed and flown until 1989. As a direct comparison, the A-12/SR-71 project was given the final go-ahead in January 1960 with an order from the CIA and the aircraft were thus allocated 1960 fiscal serials, despite the first flight not taking place until two years later in April 1962. The greater proportion of hypersonic aircraft activity took place after February 1992 with night sightings of unusual activity at Beale AFB, and loud anomalous noises described as similar to sustained artillery firing, likely to have been caused by ground running of the PDWE. The aircraft were only present at Beale for a matter of months, probably for pre-operational familiarisation. In addition, it is known that a security policeman at Beale reporting seeing a 'YF-23-like' aircraft hangared there (in one of the SR-71 sheds) in early 1992. There was apparently little attempt to disguise the aircraft's presence, because it was surrounded by personnel wearing blue MDC overalls. The YF-23 prototypes themselves had of cause ceased flying in late December 1990, pending the ATF contract award in April 1991. In April 1992, radio transmissions between Edwards AFB and a high-flying aircraft using only the callsign Gaspipe were monitored. Operations from Edwards indicate that Gaspipe, whatever it was, was still undergoing trials at that time. On this occasion, it was heard passing through 67,000ft (20,420m) in the descent, and being given distance/height vectors similar to those provided to space shuttles. The only known aircraft capable of reaching 65,000ft (19,812m) and above are U-2s and SR-71s and perhaps, surprisingly, defence officials denied that any such aircraft were in the air at the time and it is equally unlikely that either of these types would have been using such a strange callsign. However, given the descriptions of the PDWE and the sound it makes, the callsign would be plausible for a PDWE-powered vehicle. The first production ASTRAs appear to have been funded either in 1989 or 1990, given that 90-2414 is the number 6 aircraft. The fact that Northrop's B-2 first flew in 1988 and was not delivered to its operational unit until 1993 suggests that it was probably around five years before the equally revolutionary ASTRA reached operational status, namely 1994. Why hypersonic? The YF-23's supersonic performance was phenomenal. At 41,000ft (12,497m) (over 30% below its 65,000ft maximum ceiling) the GE F120-powered version is believed to have achieved at least Mach 1.8 and possibly Mach 2+ in supercruise (i.e. without afterburner), despite an unfavourable underwing fixed inlet configuration. When it was suggested that Lockheed's YF-22 was more manoeuvrable but less stealthy and noticeable slower than the YF-23, USAF Tactical Air Command commander General Mike Loh would only say: "It is not true that one is noticeably more manoeuvrable and not true that one is noticeably stealthier." The implication is that the YF-23 was indeed noticeably faster, and that the true measure of its speed was classified to avoid any risk of compromising the ASTRA. The fact that the ASTRA is derived from (or inspired) the YF-23 clearly suggests therefore that it would be more than capable of matching the Mach 3.5+ supersonic performance of the SR-71. Mach 5+ speeds are surely attainable given the numerous advances in American military technology in the years since the SR-71 was designed, not least those attained by Northrop. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 TV Broadcast Times Of Area 51 Film From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:52:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:57:48 -0400 Subject: TV Broadcast Times Of Area 51 Film I live in Europe, so I have difficulties in checking the hours of American broadcasts, but I just received this message, which was forwarded from Skywatch International by Francisco Lopez's Mailing List: d005734c@dc.seflin.org: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:49:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: SMUGGLED AREA 51 FILM -(TV TIMES) From: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Bufo Calvin, P.O. Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED I thought I'd just go ahead and pull the STRANGE UNIVERSE affilliates. It comes out rather compact, but I think you can figure it out. MarketStationTime ABILENEKIDZ12:00 AM ADA-ARDMOREKOKT12:30 AM "ALBANY, GA"WGVP11:30 PM ALBUQUERQUEKASY10:00 PM ALBUQUERQUEKRQE11:30 PM ALEXANDRIAWNTZ11:30 PM ANCHORAGEKYES10:00 PM ATLANTAWAGA12:30 AM AUGUSTAWBEK10:00 PM AUSTINKNVA6:30 PM BAKERSFIELDKUZZ12 :00 AM BALTIMOREWNUV12:30 AM BANGORWLBZ3:00 AM BATON ROUGEWGMB12:00 AM BECKLEYWVSX12:30 PM BILLINGSKHMT6:30 PM BILLINGSKSVI4:00 AM BIRMINGHAMWABM12:00 AM BOISEKNIN10:00 PM BOSTONWABU11:30 PM BOSTONWNBU11:30 PM BOWLING GREENWBKO11:35 PM BUFFALOWGRZ3:00 AM BURLINGTONWWIN6:00 PM BUTTEKWYB11:30 PM CHAMPAIGNWAND12:05 AM CHARLESTONWMMP12:00 PM CHARLOTTEWFVT12:30 AM CHATTANOGAWFLI11:30 PM CHEYENNEKLWY12:00 AM CHICAGOWCIU12:30 AM CHICO-REDDINGKDQT12:00 AM CINCINNATIWSTR12:00 PM CLEVELANDCAAZ12:00 AM CLEVELANDWAOH 7:30 PM COLUMBUSWTTE12:00 AM COLUMBUSWSWS11:30 PM CORPUS CHRISTIKZTV5:00 PM DALLASKXTX12:00 AM DALLASKXTX5:30 PM DAYTONWHIO1:35 AM DENVERKTVD1:30 AM DETROITWXON12:30 AM EL PASOKZIA12:00 AM EUGENEKLSR11:30 PM EVANSVILLEWAZ5:00 PM FAIRBANKSKFXF11:00 PM FAIR BANKSKXD2:00 PM FLINTWSMH12:30 AM FLORENCEWEYB1:00 AM FRESNOKAIL7:30 PM FT. SMITHKFDF11:30 PM GRAND JUNCTIONKREZ11:30 PM GRAND RAPIDSWOTV12:05 AM GREEN BAYWLUK4:00 AM GREENSBOROWXLV12:30 AM GREENVILLEWFBC11:30 PM HARRISBURGWHP1:30 AM HARTFORDWTNH2:00 AM H ARTFORDWTNH12:30 AM HOUSTONKTXH1:30 PM HUNTSVILLEWYLE6:00 PM INDIANAPOLISWXIN10:30 PM JACKSONVILLEWTEV11:00 PM JOHNSTOWNWATM12:00 AM JUNEAUKTNL5:00 PM KANSAS CITYKSMO1:30 PM KNOXVILLECACW12:00 AM LAFAYETTEKADN11:30 PM LAKE CHARLESKPLC10:30 AM LANSINGWSYM1 1:30 PM LAREDOKVTV5:00 PM LAS VEGASKUPN10:30 PM LEXINGTONWTVQ2:30 AM LIMAWOHL10:30 PM LINCOLNKSNB11:30 PM LINCOLNKTVG11:30 PM LITTLE ROCKKASN11:30 PM LOS ANGELESKCOP11:30 PM LOS ANGELESKCOP2:30 AM LOUISVILLEWDRB12:00 AM LUBBOCKKLBK1:00 AM MACONWPGA12:30 A M MADISONWMSN11:30 PM MEMPHISWBII6:00 PM MEMPHISWPTY12:00 AM MIAMIWDZL10:30 AM MILWAUKEEWDJT12:00 PM MINNEAPOLISKMSP11:00 PM MINNEAPOLISKMSP2:00 PM MISSOULAKTMF11:30 PM MOBILEWALA3:00 AM MOBILEWFGX10:00 PM MONROEKARD2:00 AM MONTEREYKCBA12:00 AM MONTGOMERY WAKA3:30 AM NASHVILLEWKZX11:30 PM NASHVILLEWZTV11:30 AM NEW ORLEANSWUPL11:00 PM NEW YORKWWOR12:00 AM NEW YORKWWOR1:30 AM NORFOLKWVBT11:00 PM ODESSA-MIDLANDKPEJ12:00 AM OKLAHOMA CITYKOKH12:00 AM OKLAHOMA CITYKPOC10:30 PM ORLANDOWRBW12:00 AM OTTUMVA-KIRKKYO U11:00 PM PADUCAHWQTV6:30 PM PALM SPRINGSKESQ12:00 AM PHILADELPHIAWTXF2:30 AM PHOENIXKBJ9:30 PM PHOENIXKUTP10:30 PM PHOENIXKUTP1:30 PM PITTSBURGHWPXI3:05 AM PORTLANDWCSH2:00 AM "PORTLAND, OR"KPTV12:00 AM PROVIDENCEWNAC1:30 AM RALEIGHWKFT12:30 PM RENOKAME1 0:00 PM RICHMONDWRLH11:00 PM ROANOKEWDRL7:30 PM SACRAMENTOKOVR12:00 AM SALT LAKEKTVX12:00 AM SAN ANGELOKIDY12:00 AM SAN ANTONIOKMOL11:30 PM SAN DIEGOKUSI2:00 AM SAN FRANCISCOKBHK10:00 PM SAN FRANCISCOKBHK12:30 PM SANTA BARBARAKADY11:00 PM SAVANNAHWUBI12:0 0 AM SEATTLEKCPQ12:30 AM SHREVEPORTKSHV5:30 PM SOUTH BENDWBND11:00 PM SPRINGFIELDKWBS6:00 PM ST. LOUISKTVI3:00 AM SYRACUSEWIXT1:00 AM TALAHASSEEWTWC11:00 PM TAMPAWWWB11:30 PM TERRE HAUTEWBAK1:00 AM TOLEDOXTVV6:30 PM TRAVERSE CITYWGKI12:00 AM TRAVERSE CITY WGKU12:00 AM TRI-CITIESWAPK10:00 PM TUCSONKMSB10:30 PM TULSAKTFO3:30 PM TYLERKLSB4:30 PM UTICAWPNY11:00 PM VICTORIAKAVU1:05 AM WACOKAKW11:30 PM WASHINGTONWJAL12:00 AM WASHINGTONWUSA2:30 AM WEST PALM BEACHWTCN10:00 PM WICHITA FALLKJBO10:00 PM WILKES BARREW YLN7:00 PM This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Britich media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:42:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:48:40 -0400 Subject: Britich media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD Some intereting information on the recent "Black Triangle" sightings in Europe: Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:03:49 -0400 From: Bruce Cornet <bcornet@monmouth.com> Subject: Black Triangle Blackout in UK Press Websites with articles on and/or photos of black triangles or the areas they frequent: http://www.endoftheline.com/ufo/traingle.htm http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5782/ http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/mainpix.html http://members.aol.com/ufoia/pictures.htm http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/contents.hts http://www.algonet.se/~ufo/english.html http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/index.html http://www.alternetreality.com/ufo.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of the Line Black Triangle Blackout UK PRESS TOLD NOT TO REPORT BLACK TRIANGLE UFOs UFO Magazine Says Media Got "D-Noticed" On Mystery Aircraft [CNI News] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A top BBC executive let slip recently that there is a D-Notice on media reporting of the so-called "Black Triangle." The executive, who cannot be named, is the former producer of a very popular BBC science program. He told one of our team that the black triangle "craft," first witnessed by hundreds in the Hudson Valley region of the United States [mid 1980s], then by thousands in Belgium (1989-90) and more in Britain, has been "heavily D-Noticed" by the government. For this reason the BBC will not be reporting on the enigmatic craft, no matter how many witness reports they receive. According to the former science program producer, the reason the government has seen fit to slap a restrictive notice on reporting of the Triangle is because -- so far as the government has secretly informed the BBC -- the craft is part of a new secret military project, and as such must be protected under the secrecy laws. If this is the case, however, it surely begs the question: If the so called Black Triangle is a secret military aircraft, then what is it doing hovering over residential areas and frightening people half to death? Something somewhere simply does not add up. [CNI News adds: As noted by Nick Pope in the previous article, it is very unlikely that the "Black Triangle" aircraft can be explained as a secret military project. Its technical capabilities and flight behavior suggest it neither belongs to any earthly government nor falls within the envelope of human technology. Perhaps, then, the British media are actually being warned away from reporting on a fairly obvious example of "alien" craft intruding with impunity into British airspace.] (Part of Nick Pope's comments in his interview with Michael Lindemann follows...) <Picture> "What was generally reported was two lights, flying in a perfect formation, with a third, much fainter light -- our old friend the flying triangle, really. The lights were described as being in a triangle formation. It's difficult to say, of course. It's quite possible they could have been three separate things flying in formation, but the impression from talking to witnesses was that this was a triangular craft with lights mounted on the underside, at the edges. The most interesting reports, of course, were the ones which occurred at close distance. There was a family in Staffordshire who apparently saw this thing so low -- and they described it as either triangular or diamond shaped -- that they leapt into their car and tried to chase it. They didn't succeed, although at one point they thought it was so low that it had actually come down in a field. It wasn't there when they got to it. They described a low, humming sound, a very low-frequency sound. They said you didn't just hear this sound, you felt it, like standing in front of a bass speaker. The really intriguing thing was that this object, whatever it was, then proceeded to fly over two military bases. It was seen by the guard patrol at RAF Cosford, about three or four people, [who] made an instant report of this, obviously because it had flown over their base. They checked radar. There was nothing on the screens, nothing at all, and there was nothing scheduled to fly. No military or civil aircraft should have been airborne in that area at all. They phoned the nearby base at RAF Shawbury, about 12 miles away from Cosford. The meteorological officer there took the call. He was a man with about eight years experience of looking into the night sky and then doing the weather report for the next day. So he knew his way around objects and phenomena. Now, to his absolute amazement, he saw a light in the distance, coming closer and closer. That light eventually resolved itself into a solid structured craft that he saw again flying directly over the base, but at much closer proximity than the guard patrol at Cosford had seen it. He estimated that the height of the object was no more than 200 feet. Its size, he said, was midway between a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft and a Boeing 747. He heard the low hum, too. He had not spoken to any other witnesses, except the Cosford people, who I don't think had reported the sound. He reported this low-frequency hum. Perhaps most disturbingly of all, he reported this thing throwing a beam of light down at the nearby countryside and fields just beyond the perimeter fence at the base. And this light was tracking backwards and forwards, he said to me, "as if it was looking for something." The beam of light then retracted, and the craft moved off. It was traveling very slowly, I should say, probably no more than 20 or 30 mph. Then it gained a little bit of height, and then it just shot off to the horizon in little more than a second. Needless to say, that was a description I had come across many times in other UFO reports, the virtual hover to the high-Mach accelerations in an instant."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 14 Top this... From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:38:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:20:31 -0400 Subject: Top this... I caught this tidbit on another "list" and though some might find it amuzing: > ANOMALOUS WEIGHT MEASUREMENTS OF A TOY GYROSCOPE > By B.W. Rex > From: NEN, Vol. 4, No. 8, December 1996, p. 18. > The experiment consists of a toy gyroscope being weighed both spinning > and at rest. The gyro I used was purchased at Hammond Toys for $5. I > used a balance that measures to a hundredth of a gram and has a vernier > scale. > I spun the gyro with the pull string, and placed it on the included > plastic pedestal...placed on the scale. The following measurements > were taken: > At-Rest Spinning (gm) > 95.12 95.05 > 95.14 95.06 > mean 95.12 95.07 > SD 00.016 00.012 > http://www.terminal.cz/~blackice/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Caution - UFO Radiation & Paul Hill From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Apr 97 19:21:45 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:31:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation & Paul Hill >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:01:24 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Caution - UFO Radiation & Paul Hill Don wrote; >By whom? Read it first James then make an assesment. I'm glad you asked the first part, mainly because the book assumes certain mechanisms for the operation of the 'thingies'. Mechanisms we know nothing about in actuality, although we can make observations and hypothesise based on those assumptions. I've read parts, and spent a number of years trying to do the same thing, but the UFOs always skip out of a nice classification. Haven't you found that at all? Bear in mind that some of the effects, like Biefeld Brown are considered 'old-hat' when placed against Gravitoelectric coupling (Found. Phys. Letters; Vol 6, No 4, 1993) as proposed by Ning Li, or the largely ignored work by Alan Holt. I await it with baited breath as a hopeless techy. >This is not a >crackpot book produced by some of the many lamebrains that permeate >this field but by an expert in aeronautics working in the field of >aerodynamics and rocketry for years (30) with NASA. NASA is an animal of many parts, and I've met quite a few. However, it's not a get-out for sanity, or an indication that a given individual is sane or level-headed, but I understand your point. You do know there is a mild conspiracy theory about the delay in printing this book? >I found it to be a ray of sunshine that somehow managed to >seep under the preponderance of crap that serves for "UFO >Investigation" under the guise of so much hot air and verbal >diarrhoea in ufology. Oh, I agree, but is it a substitute for looking at current developments? No. Likewise, I doubt that people will continually look upon Blumrich as a pioneer. The engineering of the 'Ezekial' machine tends to betray the era it was designed in. >Paul Hill rolled up his sleeves and got to work and spent years >in quiet study on the subject and with great courage concidering >where he worked and with whom. Don't take him lightly. If you're truly interested in this, take a look at AIAA-80-1233, 1980. The guys are still working on this, and that paper is _17_ years old. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 First World UFO Forum From: "A. J. Gevaerd" <gevaerd@alanet.com.br> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:34:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 01:15:25 -0400 Subject: First World UFO Forum Brazilian researchers organise the biggest UFO conference ever The First World UFO Forum by A. J. Gevaerd, from Brazilian UFO Magazine From December 7th to 14th Brazil's federal capital Brasilia=20 will host the biggest UFO conference ever promoted in the=20 world up until now. A coalition of six Brazilian UFO researchers=20 have been contracted by a large non-governmental organization=20 called Legiao da Boa Vontade to organise the Conference and=20 invite as many international speakers as possible. Currently,=20 the list of invited comprises 52 top UFO researchers from all=20 over the world and more than 30 Brazilian lecturers. The coalition of researchers contracted to host the conference=20 comprise of Claudeir Covo, from the National Institute of=20 Aerospace Phenomena Investigations (INFA); Rafael Cury, from=20 the UFO Research Nucleus (NPU); Reginaldo de Athayde, from=20 Ufological Research Center (CPU); Marco Antonio Petit, from=20 Fluminense UFO Research Association (AFEU); and Ubirajara=20 Rodrigues and A. J. Gevaerd, both from the Brazilian Center=20 for Flying saucer Research (CBPDV), the biggest UFO group in=20 the country. The conference, to be held over 8 days (from 8 am - 11 pm=20 daily), has been called First World UFO Forum and its main=20 objective is to promote a summit of the most prominent UFO=20 researchers from all parts of the planet. These people will=20 be asked to prepare a comprehensive document covering most=20 aspects of UFO visitations and alien contacts to be given to=20 the main authorities from several countries, some of whom will=20 be present at the Forum. Brasilia has been chosen to host the Forum because it is=20 regarded as the centre in Brazil for discussion of UFO=20 phenomena. Many Brazilian and other South American civilian=20 and military representatives will be invited to attend the=20 discussions. Representatives from other non-governmental=20 organizations, scientific community and associations are also on the list of invitees. Brazilians are definitely=20 trying to organize the biggest UFO event ever and the only=20 publication in the country --- the Brazilian UFO Magazine ---=20 is committed to promote the Forum as extensively as possible. The list of international speakers to be invited: Antonio Las Heras (Argentina) Barry Chamish (Israel) Bob Brown (USA) Bud Hopkins (USA) Colin Andrews (England) Cynthia Hind (Zimbabwe) Darush Bagheri (Iran) Derrel Sims (USA) Donald Ware (USA) Edgar Mitchel (USA) G. C. Schellhorn (USA) G=E1bor Tarcali (Hungary) Glennys Mackay (Australia) Graham Birdsall (England) Jaime Maussan (Mexico) Jaime Rodriguez (Ecuador) James Hurtak (USA) Javier Cabrera Darquea (Peru) Javier Sierra (Spain) Jerome Clark (USA) Jesse Marcel Junior (USA) Joaquim Fernandes (Portugal) John Carpenter (USA) John Mack (USA) Johsen Takano (Japan) Jorge Alfonso Ramirez (Paraguay) Jorge Martin (Port Rico) Leo Sprinkle (USA) Leonard Nimoy (USA) Linda Howe (USA) Mario Dussuel (Chile) Mark Carlotto (USA) Mauricio Baiata (Italy) Michael Hesemann (Germany) Per Andersen (Denmark) Richard Hoagland (USA) Robert Bauval (England) Robert Dean (USA) Roberto Banchs (Argentina) Roberto Pinotti (Italy) Rodrigo Fuenzalida (Chile) Ryszard Fiejtek (Polish) S. O. Svensson (Sweden) Stanton Friedman (Canada) Sun-Shi Li (China) Timo Koskeniemmi (Finland) Tony Dodd (England) Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos (Spain) Walter Andrus (USA) Wendelle Stevens (USA) Yuri Guerassimov (Russia) Yves Bosson (France) Yvonne Smith (USA) According to the organising committee of the First World=20 UFO Forum, each international and domestic speaker invited=20 will be asked to lecture for no longer than 1 hour on a=20 specific subject within their specialty, in order to=20 cover most aspects of Modern Ufology from A to Z.=20 The Forum will include roundtables and a series of activities=20 to better the UFO discussion at a high level. It is expected=20 that a few personalities from UFO-related 'show-biz' will=20 also be invited. On at least one entire night, Brazilian UFO researchers will=20 present a complete, in-depth and updated report on the=20 Varginha Case to attendess and lecturers. The Case is=20 believed to be one of the most extensively researched events=20 involving the crash of a spacecraft, happened on January 20,=20 1996. Up to now it is known that at least 2 alien creatures=20 were captured by the Brazilian Army together with the Fire=20 Department of Varginha in this incident. It is expected that between 1500 and 2000 people will attend=20 the First World UFO Forum, which will be staged in several=20 amphitheatres of the Legiao da Boa Vontade in Brasilia.=20 Those interested in participating in the conference are=20 invited to write to the address below to obtain further=20 information. A. J. Gevaerd, international coordinator First World UFO Forum C/o Brazilian UFO Magazine P. O. Box 2182, CEP 79008-970 Campo Grande (MS) Brazil Phone: +55 (67) 724-6700 Fax: +55 (67) 724-6707 gevaerd@alanet.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Apr 97 19:21:48 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:27:21 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:23:24 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs Ed Wrote; >How do you propose to to redesign the experment to deal >with a intelligence higher that our own assuming such a >intelligence exists? <scratching head> In the octupus case, the pesky critter was moving the stakes. The obvious thing would be to fix the stakes, or remove the need for stakes. In UFOlogy, you would have to fix all the parameters that can be moved. MIB? Ask them to come back later and film them. _Whatever_ works. In outwitting a _higher_ intelligence, well, first you need to figure out if they are more intelligent. Is there a dynamic change in behaviour due to external stimulus? If _you_ shift the stakes, what happens to the experiment? >How do you propose to deal with the suppression of >evidence by well funded intelligence agencys assuming >their is suppression? Assuming there is supression? Organise and cross correlate any and all information. The Internet is a great tool for passage of information and rumour, and it may come down to classifying sources in terms of a _score_. It might help to curb some of the duff information floating round if there is internal policing of the field. It would require a degree of openness. >How do you get alien bodies and crashed craft out into the >public domain assuming such exists? Under any circumstances it would require pieces to be owned, and a direct line of enquiry to be set up to track the aforementioned piece or material. Following some of the protocols and procedures set up by law enforcement and the military could help to counter any percieved threat. >Or goes to his or her church of >choice to pray! Most of the field is already like this. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Scientists Make Frog Float In Mid-Air From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:52:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:21:53 -0400 Subject: Scientists Make Frog Float In Mid-Air Surfing the "alien" newsgroups, I found mention of this interesting scientific breakthrough plus some informative commentaries. I might add that the news was brought on CNN, too. The hours are CET. 12. April 1997 19.42.04 alt.paranet.ufo Item From: jolaf@[nospam]hotmail.com,usenet Subject: Scientists Make Frog Float in Mid-Air To: alt.paranet.ufo Friday April 11 2:22 PM EDT Scientists Make Frog Float in Mid-Air LONDON (Reuter) - Scientists using a giant magnetic field have made a frog float in mid-air and might even be able to do the same thing with a human, New Scientist magazine reported Friday. The team from Britain's University of Nottingham and the University of Nijmegen in the Netherlands has also succeeded in levitating plants, grasshoppers and fish. "If you have a magnet that is big enough, you could levitate a human," said Pater Main, one of the researchers. He said the frog did not seem to suffer any ill effects. "It went back to its fellow frogs looking perfectly happy." The levitation trick works because giant magnetic fields slightly distort the orbits of electrons in the frog's atoms. The resulting electric current generates a magnetic field in the opposite direction to that of the magnet. Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:42:04 -0700 From: Josh Olaf <"\"jolaf\""@[nospam]hotmail.com> Subject: Scientists Make Frog Float in Mid-Air Message-ID: <5iohhu$54f@sun.sirius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 ____________________ 14. April 1997 17.58.01 alt.paranet.ufo Item From: cholla@netcom.com,usenet Subject: Re: Scientist report developing magnetic tractor beam To: alt.paranet.ufo Bombthrowr (bombthrowr@aol.com) wrote: : I just saw this on the Discovery Channel approx 10 : minutes ago. It was a Discovery news update during the : broadcast of the special on the Titanic. : They showed a small frog suspended in mid-air. The : commentator said that scientists have now succeeded in : suspending a living organism using a magnetic device. Yep, this one appears to be for real. You can see stills from the video at the following web site: http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html Originally done in the Netherlands, now replicated at a UK (Nottingham) lab. Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:58:01 GMT From: cholla@netcom.com (jerry shifman) Subject: Re: Scientist report developing magnetic tractor beam Message-ID: <chollaE8Mxoq.LL9@netcom.com> ______________________ 14. April 1997 18.02.00 alt.paranet.ufo Item From: cholla@netcom.com,usenet Subject: Re: Levitating Frogs To: alt.paranet.ufo Cam Bailey (biff@ftn.net) wrote: : Does anybody know what size magnets were used in : England and the Netherlands to levitate the frogs. I : saw the article in the paper yesterday and am curious : as to what it would take to levitate a human. : Cam Check out the following web site: http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html I think the magnetic flux density was around 10 Tesla. (But I don't know what that is in Gauss.) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:02:00 GMT From: cholla@netcom.com (jerry shifman) Subject: Re: Levitating Frogs Message-ID: <chollaE8MxvC.MD3@netcom.com> Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | 54f |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:20:03 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' Re: > Date: 13 Apr 97 16:59:21 EDT > From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' James, > One of the things that constantly amazes me is this ability > the military have to 'disappear' huge amounts of debris in > less than six hours, then transport it through the relatively > densely populated countryside to what can only be presumed > to be an underground base. For my brother-in-law, tasked with the responsibility of moving an F-16 from Aviano AFB to nearby Pordenone, it meant three weeks planning and the chopping down of an avenue of trees. Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:57:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 01:20:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report Scott Hale asks some good questions about the Project Mogul report from the Air Force: > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 14:57:10 -0400 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Colonel Weaver's Skeptical Report > 1. Why was the "revised" testimony of CIC officer Cavitt used after he > told investigators for years that he had nothing do do with the events > 2. Why were only a small handful of witnesses interviewed for the report > when tapes of the other witnesses were politely provided by various UFO > organizations? > 3. Why did the official log contain no mention of a flight, or its > subsequent loss? You claim that unsucsessful flights weren't recorderd, > but elsewhere in the log they are mentioned (I'm not as sure about this > question's accuracy, but I included it anyway.). Why is this so? > 4. Was there really reason to cover up the crash of a Mogul baloon when > nobody in Roswell knew what it was? Was it's design so obvious that a > average joe would notice it's top secret purpose? > 5. Why do you ignore the statments of Brig. General Thomas DuBose, who > says that the entire Roswell baloon story was a cover-up? Wasn't he in a > position to know better than the other people cited in the report? I'd add one more. Why didn't the AF report note one somewhat remarkable fact -- that even AF insiders couldn't find any Roswell documentation? You'd expect them to say something like this: "We now know that the Roswell incident was a Mogul balloon crash. Here are the memos from the base to Washington, asking what this unusual balloon might be. Here are the memos from Washington ordering a coverup." But of course these documents don't exist. We now know -- thanks to an investigation by the General Accounting Office, sparked by Congressman Schiff -- that all documents from the Roswell base during that period are missing. NOTE TO CONSPIRACY THEORISTS: We do NOT know whether this is unusual for AF documents from that era!!!! So we can't yet draw conclusions. The AF report, however, should have mentioned the missing documents. It's strange to see an official, inside investigation proceeding more or less the same way outsiders like Roswell researchers like Kevin Randle and Stan Friedman did -- by locating witnesses. Of course the AF did a half-sassed job, very likely (in my opinion) sure in advance of what they wanted their report to say. But it's amazing -- when you think about it -- that they didn't acknowledge that they couldn't prove their case with inside documents. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Scientists Make Frog Float In Mid-Air From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 01:17:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 01:17:59 -0400 Subject: Scientists Make Frog Float In Mid-Air From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) To: updates@globalserve.net Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:20:47 +0200 Subject: Re: Scientists Make Frog Float In Mid-Air Here are excerpts from the webpage of Nijmegen High Field Magnet Laboratory - http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html - and a picture of the frog: Molecular Magnetism and Levitation. (The Frog Which Learned to Fly) Seeing is believing: A little frog (alive!) and a water ball levitate inside a =D840mm vertical bore of a Bitter solenoid in a magnetic field of about 16 Tesla at the Nijmegen High Field Magnet Laboratory. =20 =20 =20 The image of a high-temperature superconductor levitating above a magnet in fog of liquid nitrogen can hardly surprise anyone these days. It has become common knowledge that superconductors are ideal diamagnetics and magnetic fields must expel them. On the other hand, the enclosed photographs of water and a frog hovering inside a magnet (not on board a spacecraft) are somewhat counterintuitive and will probably take many people (even physicists) by surprise. =20 This is the first observation of magnetic levitation of living organisms as well as the first images of diamagnetics levitated in a normal, room-temperature environment (if we disregard the tale about Flying Coffin of Mohammed as such evidence, of course). =20 In fact, it is possible to levitate magnetically every material and every living creature on the earth due to the always present molecular magnetism. The molecular magnetism is very weak (millions times weaker than ferromagnetism) and usually remains unnoticed in everyday life, thereby producing the wrong impression that materials around us are mainly nonmagnetic. But they are all magnetic. It is just that magnetic fields required to levitate all these nonmagnetic materials have to be approximately 100 times larger than for the case of, say, superconductors. The water and the frog are but two examples of magnetic levitation. We have observed plenty of other materials floating in magnetic field - from simple metals (Bi and Sb), liquids (propanol, acetone and liquid nitrogen) and various polymers to everyday things such as various plants and living creatures (frogs and fish). We hope that our photographs will help many particularly non-physicists to appreciate the importance of magnetism in the world around us. For instance, it is not always necessary to organize a space mission to study the effects of microgravity. Some experiments, e.g. plants or crystal growth, can be performed inside a magnet instead. Importantly, the ability to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Odyssey Web Site Available From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:08:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:41:18 -0400 Subject: Odyssey Web Site Available The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network now offers a Web site. What does that mean? -------------------- It means that you can now access the complete Odyssey file collection using a World Wide Web browser (Netscape preferred). Note: The Odyssey File Request Processor and FTP site are still available. How does it work? ----------------- Tell your Web browser to find IP Address 24.3.12.10 like this: <http://24.3.12.10/> Or, give this URL to your Web Browser: <http://CC636243-A.twsn1.md.home.com> If all goes well, and if you had previously established an Internet connection before trying to access the Odyssey Web Site, then you will see the Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network start page. What do I do then? ------------------ Bookmark the Web page! Then, you can optionally click on the Guestbook animated icon to sign in, or you can click on the Start Odyssey icon to enter the Web Site. So, what do I do then? ---------------------- Whatever you want. Here are some of the special features: - Nearly 7,000 files available for immediate download. - Separate multimedia libraries for movies, photographs and audio content. - Over 1,000 UFO and related photographs organized geographically and by topic available for immediate online viewing. - An online keyword searchable database of all the Web Site files and their descriptions. - Over 20 categories of non-multimedia files. Each file category provides a complete online keyword searchable database of the total file content. - A Special Features section devoted to an expanded treatment of specific topics. Frequently Asked Questions: --------------------------- How do I view the photographs? The Odyssey Web Site uses an internal FTP connection to send the selected image to your browser. If you have automatic-save-to-file disabled then the image will be displayed when you click on the image's filename. (Alternatively, movies will be presented and/or audio files will be played.) How long can I stay online with the Odyssey Web Site? As long as you want. There are no time or usage limits. How long will it take to display a photograph? The Odyssey Web Site operates a full-time direct 500Kbps connection to the Internet, so it won't take long if you've got a fast modem. Okay, enough questions, is this available now? Right now. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:03:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:08:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP Hello there Ed and Jan, I respect many of the things both of you have been saying. However, since Dr. Hynek was the one person that kept me sane (by many of his actions) after I had my own sightings, I have a statement, some questions and some evidence to present. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP >>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:06:13 -0700 >>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Intelligence Agencies and NICAP ....snip.... >I am sure you remember the quote attributed to Hillenkoettner. >Something to the effect that he had gone as far as he could. Well >it was very obvious that congressional hearings were causing quite >a stir. Keyhoe gets the boot, NICAP disintegrates, then that air >force swamp gas debunker Hynek suddenly makes a conversion and >pushes for scientific investigations into UFOs. JC: The "swamp gas" remark attributed to Hynek was made when he got off a plane and was besieged by reporters to tell him what the sightings were, _before_ he had a chance to investigate. In trying to take the most rational, earthly view he could at the moment, he made the comment "it could possibly be 'swamp gas.'" If Hynek was so close with the government & the Air Force, why did he write the following in his book the UFO Experience? Click below to read what he wrote: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.5a.html Also for some more accurate information on this time period please also peruse the following: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= UFOS, A SYNOPSIS OF AN EXTREMELY RELEVANT HISTORY =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= at: ocr.4a.html You can click straight to it from the last page of the prior essay. It is all footnoted and extremely accurate. Begin your reading in "4a" _after_ the "1960 SKYTHING." Beginning with "Most of us didn't know it back then....." You will also find this in his letter to Col. Sleeper: ". . . . . many astronomical evaluations have been made by Blue Book without consulting their scientific consultant (who is, after all, an astronomer) which have brought ridicule in the press. The midwest flap of reports of July 31-August 1, 1965 can be cited as an example." Then ask yourself: "Why did he write the articles for "Newsweek 10/10/66" and "Saturday Evening Post 12/17/66" and say the things he said? I honestly do not believe he would have done all this if he were a "mole." >....snip.... Hell he was UFO PR man for the air force. JC: At first, but not towards the end of his tenure at Blue Book. I am fairly certain the Air Force would have quietly fired him (thus removing him from his data source, i.e. Blue Book cases) if he had made any more waves than he did. As it was they were looking to close Project Blue Book. Hynek was getting too public with his remarks. It was getting more difficult for them to fire him. >As to evidence that Hynek was playing both sides of the fence I >would refer you to some of Len Stringfields literature expecialy >the little run in Len had with Hynek. I talked to Len about that >in person when he was alive. That little series of events is very >enlightening from a intelligence perspective. JC: Ed, I'm not familiar with this. Do you have it available? BTW, yes, Hynek was playing both sides of the fence, but I don't believe it was as you said, but rather, to keep his job and stay as close to the major data from the Air Force as he could. >Then we have MUFON and FUFOR come into existance with a man with a >NSA background taking, formulative and critical positions in both >organizations. Of course if Thomas D. is a mole plugging security >leaks and gathering intelligence he is not going to fess up. One >thing for sure is that Thomas D. is in exactly the place a >intelligence mole should be. I am not saying that he is a mole but >he sure as hell is a prime suspect if there every was one just as >Hynek was. I or anybody else in their right mind would not give >sensitive information to MUFON, CUFOS or FUFOR. JC: Jerome Clark has been an excellent writer/editor of CUFOS. (Along with Jan, Greg and many others that have written for their journal.) I have agreed with a good portion of what he. they and others have written. I personally have not had any bad feelings about that organization. However, I did feel something was really wrong with NICAP towards the end. That's why I eventually stopped subscribing to them and switched to CUFOS when Dr. Hynek originally founded it. (Along with, I believe, Sherman Larsen amongst others.) Jerry Cohen E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen P.S. BTW, Dr. Hynek also sent out the following FOIA releases along with CUFOS journal in January 1982. http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/frnt.sci.81.html The above was a follow-up to a previous release of information in 1979. That information appears in the following reprint of a Washington Post article which also appeared in Newsday, a respected Long Island newspaper. http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/Nsday.Art.79.html And you can view his own personal comments on same at: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.3b.html#anchor75480 These articles can probably be found via local libraries, although the Frontiers of Science article may be more difficult to come by. P.P.S Ed, add to this the fact that this man, who didn't know me from a "hole in the wall," called my home (Long Island, NY) in December 1981 from Evanston, Illinois, after I had written him a letter concerning my '67 sightings. He spent 15 minutes with me on the phone discussing it and giving me his son's phone # (his son worked on Madison Ave. in New York) along with Bud Hopkin's name (neither of which I ever called). It makes it difficult for me to believe that Dr. Hynek was anything but 100% sincere. I also read the letters in the 1986 May/June CUFOS memorial journal from staff and friends dedicated to Dr. Hynek after he passed away. Ed, all of these people respected him immensely and not one of them gave even the least hint of what you are saying about him. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | edkomarek |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 BWW Media Alert 970411 From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:03:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:04:30 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970411 >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:05:11 -0700 >From: BufoCalvin@aol.com >To: BufoCalvin@aol.com >Subject: BWW Media Alert 970411 >Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 >Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com >510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) >TAP (The Address Project) >NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) >Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) >ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this >edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) >April 11, 1997 >Well, I have to tell you, that was a bit frustrating. ....snip.... >Finally, Peter Gersten, a well-known lawyer in UFO circles for his FOIA work, >has been sending out a serialized story about the future kidnapping of >Supreme Court Justice O'Connor and how that leads to the removal of the UFO >cover-up. He recently indicated that readers of the story might become >involved in the actual events, and had me (by name) calling the FBI to check >on whether a Supreme Court Justice was actually missing. JC: Oh ginger peachy. Just what we need; UFO fiction from the person that has helped obtain some of the most important government information we have concerning UFOs. Pardon me if I don't stand up and cheer. Jerry Cohen E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Expert' comment' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:25 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:50:52 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment' >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:08:28 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment > A little windup >Agfa camera or what have you in something this important. Come on!! Excuse me, Don, but that is a grossly ill-informed and silly comment. The film has always been claimed to have been shot with a Bell & Howell Filmo 70 camera. This camera is certainly not "little". It is a large, solid camera, and was used by all branches of the US military for many years. In the late 60s, when I began doing cinematography, many hundreds if not thousands of these cameras were still in use. The Bell & Howell Filmo was, in fact, the most successful motion picture camera in history. Yes, it was spring driven, as were nearly all cameras at the time. In today's world of miniaturized motors and such, we tend to forget that spring wound cameras were the standard in the 20s,30s, 40s, 50s and well into the 60s. There was an electric motor attachment for the Filmo series, but it was gigantic and VERY heavy. It could not be used for hand-held shooting. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:09 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:49:55 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 16:48:32 EDT >From: brian <BMA97001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >Can someone please tell me where I can find a copy of >the "Alien Autopsy" video that is currently occupying >much of the debate in this list? Don't know where you are, Brian, but every video store around here has it for rent. Look for Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction? This includes the complete TV program as broadcast on FOX and after the program has the complete autopsy. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:15 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:48:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:39:40 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Seeing is not believing >It has been said in the past that "seeing is Believing" it certainly >looks in this case that "seeing is not believing!". >There has been an awful lot of dissent over the AA film and a lot of >conjecture. Who actually knows ALL the facts? Santilli? I'm pretty sure >even he does'nt know all the facts. I say this for several reasons. >Permit me if I may but here are some thoughts that I have had on this >subject. Certainly Sean. Nice to see someone really doing some thinking about all this. >1) It has been said several times about the camera man getting the >"right shots" and "positioning" etc. Could it not be possible that the >chap in question was young and unpracticed in this art? No one has claimed, to my knowledge, that this man did a really good job of the filming. According to his story, he was in a state of near shock while filming this. Remember, this was a dead "freak" as the military called them, a creature of unknown origin and which had turned out to be a bio-hazard. I suspect that even the best cameramen would be so nervous and freaked out (literally!) that they might not do their best. Also, the fact that this creature even existed was a serious blow to "Jack" whose religion is one of the fundamentalist sects. He still refuses to even consider the idea that these "freaks" were space aliens. >2)What was the procedure in 1947 for alien autopsy's? I'm fairly certain >that "we" have one now, but back in '47? I'm sure that there was none. >so why do we pass comment about what should or should-not have been done >in the "theatre" of dissection. Good point! >3)It has been said, by several people, that if the alien bodies are S/FX >dummies then they are extremely good ones. If I remember correctly a >certain S/fx (his name escapes me) said that he would employ on the spot >the man (or woman) who could do this kind of stuff, (remember the blood >co-agulation etc) but back in '47 it would have been totally impossible >to do this kind of stuff. Yes, if these are special effects dummies, the person/persons who made them are nothing short of genius. >4) That brings me to another point, who has actually identified the film >as from '47 stock other than one of Santilli's people? Acording to this >board none. But according to the video that I have seen of the AA it has >been verified by two top film people. One being Kodak themselves. Yes and no. Kodak initially verified the film as absolutely from 1947, but this was a mistake caused by misinformation in the chart they use to identify film age from edge codes. The problem is that the film I have examined is copy film, not camera original. It does have the proper chemical composition and edge code for 1947, but without examination of some of the actual camera original film, all testing is really inconclusive. >5)It has also been said that there are six other reels of film "out >there" as yet unreleased or un-recoverable, what is on those reels of >film? It has been hinted at that Truman himself was on one of those >reels and that a fragment with him on footage clearly visible, now that >I would LIKE to see. Whether the actual number is six I do not know. The roll which has been claimed to show Truman is stuck together, and has not yet been unstuck. >6)The alien corpse, S/fx dummy aside, there was a number of these >"bodies" not one, so surely if they where "fake" then only one would >have been made as the cost of making just one is bound to have been >exorbitant. also on this vein There are at least two different bodies. Maybe three, but the one shown in the tent footage is not seen clearly enough to be certain whether it is different. Yes, making the two bodies would have cost a substantial amount of money, and it makes no sense to make two bodies and film two procedures when only one of them has commercial potential. The first autopsy, the one not released, consiste in large part of a detailed "gynecology" exam which could not be shown on television anywhere in the world, and thus is worthless from an exploitation point of view. To me this argues heavily against it being a special effects creation. >7) It has also been said that the "greys" of the AA film are not your >typical "grey" well the only thing I can say to this have you ever >thought about your typical human/homo sapien? surely if we were to been >seen by another race of beings how would you say that we are all the >same when you have African blacks and Chinese, and European whites etc? The creatures shown in the film are not grays. In life they were said to be pink, and turning grayish after death. Just as human corpses do. >Finally. >If this film is the genuine article (which I would dearly like it to be) >then it would be the "Holy Grail" that we have all been looking for. > Is it possible that certain "agents of the government" connived a >devious way for it to be "released" to create dissent in the ranks? I >mean since the release of this film there has been a raging argument >over it ever since. Many believe that the film is real and is an intentional release by the US Govt or by some group within the Govt. Yes, your scenario is possible. Hand us the proof, but do it in such a way that the bulk of the UFO community discounts it and discards it. >I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth >Sean Jones> Yes, Sean, so am I. And it is likely that so are these little creatures who crashed and died in the NM desert in 1947. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 'Electronic Warfare' now includes DEW From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:06:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:47:25 -0400 Subject: 'Electronic Warfare' now includes DEW Not long ago there was a debate concerning a shuttle footage, wherein the author postulated the possible use, or testing of SDI weapons. Whilst, the majority of the SDI programs have now been put on the ice, some recent information provides somewhat more in depth details concerning their existence, and operational capabilities in a different military/intelligence mode. Such official information equally raise the question of their possible deployment and use versus some special categories of the UTRs, UERs, and in particular, their use in the scenarios categorised as; "Warning and verification of Hostile Space Events", subsection "01-Anomalous Event". Pentagon's Directed Energy Weapons (DEW) Policy, qualifies the deployment and the use of such weapons as part of the "Electronic Warfare": "As directed-energy weapons (high power lasers, high/low power radio frequency (RF), and particle beams are fielded, the destructive element of Electronic Attack will extend from employment of ARMs [Anti-radiation missiles-author] to the direct use of electromagnetic or directed energy in target destructions". Dennis C. Blair, Vice Admiral, USN, Director of Joint Chiefs, in his "Secret" classified instruction, sets out the rules of engagement, as well as the pertinent policy for the use of such weapons. "EA [Electronic Attack] focuses on the offensive use of electromagnetic energy or DE [Directed Energy] to attack enemy combat capability". Such attack is coupled "with the destructive capabilities of anti radiation missiles ARM and DE [Directed-energy] weapon systems". Already USN's A-3 [Alternative - 3] satellites possess this capabilities. "Coordination of EW Operations; A Joint Force Command's delegation of control over EW operations to a component or lower echelon does not eliminate the requirement for joint or combined coordination of EW operations. Effective employment of EW requires that the associated functions be performed at the highest level of control within the Combined Joint Task Force organization". Another vital function of EW is to provide Electronic Surveillance (ES) using "electromagnetic spectrum in direct support of an operational commander's electromagnetic information". In other words to gather intelligence information by menas of ELINT (Electronic Intelligence), IRINT (Infrared intelligence), as well as LASINT (Laser Intelligence). In turn, these manner of intelligence "support immediate decision making for employment of EW or other tactical actions". "US military commands are authorised to employ destructive and nondestructive EW". in the case of DE warfare (DEW), "systems will be employed consistent with the legal rights and obligations of the US under domestic and international law". Commander in Chiefs [CINCs] will request the Joint Chiefs of Staffs approval to employ tactical DEW". Nevertheless, the Operational Security OPSEC guidance in the deployment of any phases of EW "must agree with DCI [Director of Central Intelligence] policy and be coordinated with the Director, NSA/Chief, CSS". DIA, equally, plays a major role in monitoring, analysing and the assessment of the intelligence gathered via EW activities, "particularly in those projects with unusual and long-term intelligence requirements". In response to my request for information gathered by NSA/CSS via any of EW intelligence gathering menas,; telemetry, IRINT, LASINT, ELINT, on the "anomalous events", I received a registered-recorded envelope from NSA, well-sealed, return receipt required, asking for the dates of specific events for which the initial request was filed. Equally, reports filed under Communications Instructions reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings (CIRVIS), on International Urgency Signal-PAN, and for the ground relay of airborne reports or post-landing reports, using FLASH precedence, while AF/XOOO [Air Force Operations Group] is the OPR for CIRVIS reporting instructions, nevertheless, it is not the principal addressee, and the reports are submitted to NORAD. In brief, no single document on the topic of UFOs which does include vital and/or tactical intelligence, gathered by vast EW sources, are available to public researchers. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:07 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:48:11 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:03:44 EDT >Even in a non-critial case, FAR more care would be taken than was shown >in the AA case. It's just NOT realistic. And you will NOT see >round-bottomed stainless steel bowls in a medical setting, they're far >too easy to tip over. Medical trays and bowls are flat-bottomed. More airy pontification, which is just what we need on this subject. Pay a visit to a medical museum, my friend, and LOOK at what was in use in 1947 before spouting nonsense. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Experts? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:26 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:52:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Experts? >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:24:35 EDT >From: brian <BMA97001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU> >Subject: Experts? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> Brian, You chastise UFO "experts" for bickering, infighting, back stabbing, self promotion, having a pre-determined agenda, etc. etc. Have you ever been to a scientific conference? It's just the same. Human nature is the same in all walks of life. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 (dis-)information and the Internet From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:46:25 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:40:15 -0400 Subject: (dis-)information and the Internet Hello List ! I'm writing this as a response/background to the recent discussions about Maurice Chatelaine, Billy Meier and his 'exposure' by his ex-wife, the validity of reports of certain UFO radio program presenters, the alien autopsy film, and the discussion that we need a spokesmen/woman for the UFO community. That seems a whole lot that apparently have no relation to each other, other than that the "general" subject are UFOs. But I see those subjects related in a way that explains ~why~ we apparently are going nowhere. I guess when 10 years ago something was written in the newspapers or shown on TV, that would give a possible certainty about the accuracy of the report, and therefore the report contained at least something that was true (let's forget about the exceptions here for a moment). But with the big boom in communication technology and the Internet, any idiot, fool and/or potential cult leader can publish their opinions, write stories, and state them as being the truth. That applies to the web, and in the newsgroups things are even worse. I've stopped reading newsgroups about UFO's because most of the articles are of the "I had sex wit an alien !!!" type. I think that's also why most of us are subscribed to this e-mail list. Because we want serious work done, and not to be bothered with nonsense, and when it comes up, expose it. But when I look at the discussions, they usually go like; "I spoke to him/her and he/she said such and so" and someone replies "I think ......", "My theory is....." and someone else; "When I talked to him/her he/she said something different". It seems to me that the source of information has become more important than it ever was. And that point is our first problem; most people do not want to talk openly about UFOs, but often they will agree to talk about it anonymously. Now most news reporters (except the tabloid style) check their sources thoroughly. But as I said earlier, any idiot can cook a story from "anonymous sources within the government" and spread it though the Internet. And while we're at it, go to a search engine, and look for "Bill Cooper" and "Lear". you'll get a list of sites from here to Tokyo that published their stories, like they where highly trustworthy sources, having worked for the government, Lear being the son of such and such. Of all those sites only two sites mention the tv-show where Lear wants to tell the public that he fabricated the Krill document as a joke, being caught shorthanded by Cooper, who said he'd seen the document many years ago when he was in the navy ! Some researchers, and I think Stanton Friedman is a good example of this, emphasize their prior achievements and their scientific carrier to create the impression that they, of any person, certainly know what they are talking about. They create this personality around themselves, up to the point that it gives the impression that their prior achievements are tremendous, that they are... well, almost a blessing for humanity and that therefore anything they say is the truth. I'm sure Stanton does that with the best of intentions, But when I read the "who's who in Ufology" by MUFON, it really made me nauseous. Why? I'll explain: I can only talk for myself. I'm not a scientist or anything. I work as an Internet Consultant and Developer for an ISP. I've build cool websites and have set up Quake and Virtual Chat Servers. Does that mean that my next project will be a "Big Hit"? Nope, it may very well be the shittiest website that I'll ever build. The same goes for UFO studies. It is so easy to overlook something or to interpret something wrong, that any prior achievements do not give ~any~ certainty of the accuracy of the current research. So we still have a source-dilemma. Can we put our trust in pictures and movies then? I think everybody knows by now we can not. Pictures are easily digitally altered, and the graphical software today is so good, that you won't notice the difference. Video is more reliable, in a sense that a hoaxer has to do a lot more effort in fixing something up. But that doesn't mean anything. For how long have we been trying to figure out wether the Alien Autopsy movie is real or not? Santilli certainly isn't helping much with twisting his butt out of any real verification, making up stories to "ascertain the annonimity of the people involved". For what I'm concerned, he can go piss up a moon-crater, wether his movie is real or not. The source-dilemma becomes even worse when Art Bell puts transcripts of caller interviews on his website. People can just call in and tell him any story, whether it is anonymous, under a real or fictional name. Unlike most journalists, Art doesn't check his sources at all, stating that his program is for everybody that wants to say something on the air. Then there's the story of Maurice Chatelaine. He state's that he "worked for number of aerospace organizations and industries and was supported by the United States Navy, the United States Air Force, and NASA". Then according to James Oberg he wasn't working for NASA at the time of Apollo 11. Then Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied before, and that his statements are no good. Who should we believe? About trusting people as a source of information, look at the thread of Billy Meier and his "exposure" by his ex-wife. Now, a person going through a divorce from her partner is probably the ~most~ untrustworthy source of information about Meier we could ~ever~ come up with ! Look at the Lazar case then. Many people have checked out his past, all statements about his employment by the government stick, so his story should be trusted, Right? Wrong..... He could be a disgruntled employee, who didn't get a salary raise and decided to put his employers though a great ordeal. Or he could very well be telling the truth. But what the truth is.... we will never know for sure. So what have we established in the past years? ~ZIP~ In the most favorable cases, we know the names of the sources of information, their pasts have been checked to a great extent, but we still cannot make "hard evidence" of their stories. In the worst cases, we have a story only, no source, nothing physical. We are still at point zero, we've always been at point zero, and if we go on like this, we will always stay at point zero. Combine that with the effort that AFOSI's Richard Dothy has put into spreading rumours and lies about government involvement (read the lines, I didn't say the government isn't involved), feeding the UFO community disinformation up to the point that we make ourselves ridiculous, argue with each other, or make ourselves questionable at the least. And then I haven't even talked about that bunch of "remote viewers" that claim to be in contact with aliens. Their alien thoughts being "channeled" to humanity through them. No wonder the media are talking about UFO Cults. So we need a spokesmen huh? For what? What do we have that we can possibly say We can't even agree on a single theory, so what could we possibly bring out as a unified statement? We can only agree on our impression that UFOs exist.... Unless we hijack a UFO and land on the White House's lawn, we don't have much to make statements about, do we? Yes, we have miles of video footage, tons of pictures... But that it isn't enough to get attention and be believed, because NASA, CIA, FBI, etc. all say that they "cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's" and therefore they officially don't exist. Who's gonna believe us if we say they do? Best regards, Karel Bagchus. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Hacking Space Shuttles, Abort Codes : NailGun From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:35:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:56:42 -0400 Subject: Hacking Space Shuttles, Abort Codes : NailGun Hi List, I found this in the "Confidence is High" (Hackers Newsletter), think it's really funny and somewhat informative: Hacking Space Shuttles, Abort Codes : NailGun Okay, if you ever decide to hack a space shuttle (*.arc.nasa.gov is hacked very frequently) and you actually plan it all out, make sure you collect all the parts of this "mini-guide" of little things that are important and you will need to know, this section concerns.... SPACE SHUTTLE ABORT MODES ------------------------- Space Shuttle launch abort philosophy aims toward safe and intact recovery of the flight crew, orbiter and its payload. Abort modes include: * Abort-To-Orbit (ATO) -- Partial loss of main engine thrust late enough to permit reaching a minimal 105-nautical mile orbit with orbital maneuvering system engines. * Abort-Once-Around (AOA) -- Earlier main engine shutdown with the capability to allow one orbit around before landing at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.; White Sands Space Harbor (Northrup Strip), N.M.; or the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) at Kennedy Space Center, Fla.. * Trans-Atlantic Abort Landing (TAL) -- Loss of two main engines midway through powered flight would force a landing at Banjul, The Gambia; Ben Guerir, Morocco; or Moron, Spain. * Return-To-Launch-Site (RTLS) -- Early shutdown of one or more engines and without enough energy to reach Banjul would result in a pitch around and thrust back toward KSC until within gliding distance of the SLF. STS-35 contingency landing sites are Edwards AFB, White Sands, Kennedy Space Center, Banjul and Ben Guerir, Moron. Next time we will probably look at the payloads of space shuttles, l8r. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:29 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:53:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 14:10:55 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief' Vince, I've tried on several occasions to send you e-mail at the above address. I get a message saying "invalid recipient address" every time. Can you send me a valid e-mail address. BTW, saw Rebecca last weekend. She says you are actually a nice guy. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 new issue From: "Anders.Persson" <anders.persson@mbox309.swipnet.se> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:40:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:01:58 -0400 Subject: new issue Hi all! Will only inform you that we have released a new amazing issue of our paper on the net! As usual, we don't think it gona level our popularity, but that's life. We have never said that we are nice people... The address is: http://www.wufoc.com Anders Persson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:27:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:29 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief > BTW, saw Rebecca last weekend. She says you are actually a nice > guy. Careful Bob, people will talk! <g> I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to say goodbye before we all departed. I enjoyed the weekend a lot. I would have been much happier with a little warmer weather though. Rebecca PS. If you did not get a T-Shirt, I have one for you. L or XL?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 19:23:25 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:37:49 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment The Duke of Mendoza begins to despair. But compliments to all... >Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:07 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment >More airy pontification, which is just what we need on this subject. >Pay a visit to a medical museum, my friend, and LOOK at what was >in use in 1947 before spouting nonsense. Including biohazard Level 4 suits with air and comms lines that fed into their FEET? Haw haw haw, hee hee hee. WHOOPs, I fell over. Back to the Kook's Museum where that movie belongs, Bob. Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza This Week's Password: "Zoe's Colt Bones"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:52:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Seeing is not believing >Certainly Sean. Nice to see someone really doing some thinking >about all this. I do like to think, many thanks. > Also, the fact that this >creature even existed was a serious blow to "Jack" whose >religion is one of the fundamentalist sects. He still refuses >to even consider the idea that these "freaks" were space aliens. I have found this to be the case with many "religious" people. I myself believe in God, and will continue to do so even when I shake the hand of the first "alien" that offers it, BUT My argument is and shall remain, Where in the Bible does it say that God *only* created life here on Earth? To my knowledge it does not. It has been "suggested" that perhaps Jesus himslef was in fact an alien, now this I find *extremely* insulting. >Good point! Thanks. >Yes, if these are special effects dummies, the person/persons who >made them are nothing short of genius. I'd have to agree with that. >Yes and no. Kodak initially verified the film as absolutely from >1947, but this was a mistake caused by misinformation in the chart >they use to identify film age from edge codes. The problem is that the >film I have examined is copy film, not camera original. It does have >the proper chemical composition and edge code for 1947, but without >examination of some of the actual camera original film, all testing >is really inconclusive. I bow to your expert opinion :-) >Whether the actual number is six I do not know. The roll which has >been claimed to show Truman is stuck together, and has not yet been >unstuck. Lets pray that it does eventually does. >There are at least two different bodies. Maybe three, but the one >shown in the tent footage is not seen clearly enough to be certain >whether it is different. Yes, making the two bodies would have cost a >substantial amount of money, and it makes no sense to make two >bodies and film two procedures when only one of them has commercial >potential. The first autopsy, the one not released, consiste in large >part of a detailed "gynecology" exam which could not be shown on >television anywhere in the world, and thus is worthless from >an exploitation point of view. To me this argues heavily against >it being a special effects creation. Yes it does does'nt it. >The creatures shown in the film are not grays. In life they were said to be >pink, and turning grayish after death. Just as human corpses do. Still does'nt quite answer the question, How would you discribe us as "humans" to an Alien race? >>over it ever since. >Many believe that the film is real I would like it to be. >and is an intentional release by >the US Govt or by some group within the Govt. Yes, your scenario >is possible. Hand us the proof, but do it in such a way that the >bulk of the UFO community discounts it and discards it. and I totally agree with this argument. >Yes, Sean, so am I. And it is likely that so are these little >creatures who crashed and died in the NM desert in 1947. Hmmm... I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth Sean [Jones] http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:45 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:47:43 -0400 Subject: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD >Date: 15-Apr-97 05:12:17 MsgID: 823-75255 ToID: 76710,234 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >Subj: UFO UpDate: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Parts: 1 Steven passed on; >Some intereting information on the recent "Black Triangle" >sightings in Europe: The D-notices are extremely old news, for all the good that does them. A colleague of mine is convinced that they're mostly military, but I always caution him on treading lightly in this assumption, as it wasn't long ago when the HALO was described as a 'stealth' aircraft. Warton is an interesting case in point for the usefulness of the D-notices. For our American and otherwise cousins, Warton was a black triangle 'hotspot', OS Landranger Map 102, and slap bang in the middle of a built-up area called 'Lytham St Annes', the English equivalent of Naples, FLA. They flew a black triangle out of Warton, according to various witnesses, until the media got really interested, then shifted operations to Boscombe down when the logistics group moved. >For this reason the BBC will not be reporting on the >enigmatic craft, no matter how many witness reports they receive. The BBC, AKA 'Aunty', doesn't consider UFO reports that newsworthy, unless it's a specialist program. >If the so called Black Triangle is a secret military aircraft, >then what is it doing hovering over residential areas and >frightening people half to death? Something somewhere simply >does not add up. I understand that I may be wee-weeing on half-a-dozen bonfires, but hasn't it been considered that there is more than _one_ flying triangle? I mean, I tend to assume that just because I see a plane it isn't a devilishly fiendish 'morphing' plane that accounts for worldwide sightings of said contraptions. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: First World UFO Forum From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:47 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:48:48 -0400 Subject: Re: First World UFO Forum >From: "A. J. Gevaerd" <gevaerd@alanet.com.br> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: First World UFO Forum >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:34:57 -0400 AJ wrote; >The list of international speakers to be invited: How many have replied? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Strange Universe area 51 alien From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:33:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:33:37 -0400 Subject: Strange Universe area 51 alien Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:46:10 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Strange Universe area 51 alien Hiya Errol, hi All! Like many of you I watched the footage of the area 51 alien (all 3 seconds of it!) with curiosity and an open mind. I honestly don't know what to make of it, much less have an oppinion as to whether it's real or not. Who knows? I would like to share the following: 1. Strieber was right, whoever made the 'dummy' knew what these things look like. Right down to the skin color. The bugger on the tape 'looks' just like them. 2. Several months ago a friend sent me a videotaped interview of George knapp that was conducted by Chuck Harder (Florida radio/cable TV host) in which Harder shows an 8x10 glossy (studio quality) photo of the exact same creature as seen in the area 51 tape waving hello! I have attached a copy to this e-mail. 3. If anyone can prove that they (the model in the Harder photo and the alien from area 51) are one and the same, then we'll have our answers in short order! For all I know they could both be real! But my 'street sense' smells rodent droppings. I welcome opinions from others. As usual, have fun! (How was that Brian? <G>)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 'Electronic Warfare' now includes DEW From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:54 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:56:47 -0400 Subject: 'Electronic Warfare' now includes DEW >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:06:00 -0400 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: "ELECTRONIC WARFARE" Now includes DEW >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> Henry wrote; >"Warning and verification of Hostile Space Events", >subsection "01-Anomalous Event". In this case of course, 'Hostile' refers to any event against the interests of the controlling body, such as a big rock, henceforth abbreviated as BBR, the primary 'B' used to emphasise the size of such a rock. 'Anomalous event' is frequently used to describe the unknown occasions when it's impossible to use an existing reaction procedure. >Such >attack is coupled "with the destructive capabilities >of anti radiation missiles ARM and DE [Directed-energy] >weapon systems". Rescinded last year as the Geneva convention objected to the man-portable laser blinder rifle (MPLBR - author), as unethical, it's thrust being to overburden the infrastructure of a fighting force with Non-com troops. Should I point out that Anti-radiation missiles seek out radiating (ie RADAR, LIDAR, Radio stations) sources of energy in the EMF spectrum? >Already USN's A-3 [Alternative - 3] satellites possess >this capabilities. Really, George? What source are you using for this frankly startling information? >Effective employment of EW requires that the associated >functions be performed at the highest level of control within the Combined Joint Task Force organization". Military-speak for, 'don't drop the baby'. Explored more in the philosophy of the 'Battleforce' holistic realtime battlefield, although that is the PBI. >In other words to gather intelligence information >by menas of ELINT (Electronic Intelligence), IRINT >(Infrared intelligence), as well as LASINT >(Laser Intelligence). In other words, listening, looking and measuring, the latter being by the use of LIDAR. >telemetry, IRINT, LASINT, ELINT, on the >"anomalous events", I received a registered-recorded envelope from NSA, >well-sealed, return receipt required, asking for the dates of specific >events for which the initial request was filed. I would be as cautious if someone asked for current details of my intelligence gathering suite. >In brief, no single document on the topic of >UFOs which does include vital and/or tactical >intelligence, gathered by vast EW sources, >are available to public researchers. I believe that this avenue was explored when someone asked for details of NORAD tracking of orbital objects classed as unknown, and the FOIA asked for a huge amount of money. In brief, what about the SOBEPs reports? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Department of Defence Server Listing From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:47:57 -0400 Subject: Department of Defence Server Listing Hi List ! This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April 1997, Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew 6.1.0.1 yuma-emh1.army.mil yuma.arpa yuma1.army.mil 7.8.0.2 protolaba.dca.mil protolaba.arpa 7.0.0.3 edn-vax.dca.mil edn-vax.arpa 8.0.0.2 ccs.bbn.com 8.1.0.2 cci.bbn.com bbncci.arpa 8.3.0.2 ccd.bbn.com bbnccd.arpa 8.5.0.2 cck.bbn.com 8.0.0.5 cd2.bbn.com 8.2.0.5 cc1-tac.bbn.com 8.3.0.9 bbnnet2-arpanet-gw.arpa bbnnet2-arpanet-gw.bbn.com 8.7.0.9 egonoc.bbn.com 8.0.0.10 cc4-tac.bbn.com 8.3.0.10 jsnach.bbn.com jsnach.arpa 8.1.0.12 noc3.bbn.com 8.5.0.14 dev.cs.net 128.89.0.94 dev.cs.net 8.1.0.16 rvax.bbn.com 128.89.0.132 rvax.bbn.com 8.1.0.18 cc2.bbn.com 8.7.0.18 cca.bbn.com bbncca.arpa 8.6.0.19 cc3-tac.bbn.com 8.9.0.19 ccny.bbn.com 8.2.0.24 ccu.bbn.com bbnccu.arpa 8.3.0.24 cco.bbn.com 8.0.0.26 ccp.bbn.com 8.1.0.26 ccq.bbn.com bbnccq.arpa 8.3.0.26 hnoc.bbn.com 8.5.0.26 z.bbn.com bbnz.arpa 8.7.0.26 ccx.bbn.com bbnccx.arpa 8.8.0.26 ccy.bbn.com bbnccy.arpa 8.16.0.33 cce.bbn.com bbncce.arpa 8.1.0.35 col.bbn.com bbncc-columbia.arpa 8.2.0.37 cc-vm.bbn.com 8.0.0.58 idnoc.bbn.com 8.0.0.97 noc4.bbn.com 10.4.0.5 gw-1.cs.net 192.31.103.1 gw-1.cs.net 192.5.58.1 gw-1.cs.net 10.7.0.5 lpr-netman.arpa lpr-netman.bbn.com 10.2.0.7 rand-arpa-tac.arpa 10.2.0.11 su-arpa-tac.arpa 10.3.1.11 stanford.arpa 10.5.0.14 white.incsys.com incremental.arpa 192.31.230.1 white.incsys.com incremental.arpa 10.6.0.14 cadre.dsl.pitt.edu cadre.arpa cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu 128.147.128.1 cadre.dsl.pitt.edu cadre.arpa cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu 128.147.1.1 cadre.dsl.pitt.edu cadre.arpa cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu 130.49.128.1 cadre.dsl.pitt.edu cadre.arpa cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu 10.8.0.14 gateway.sei.cmu.edu 128.237.254.254 gateway.sei.cmu.edu 128.2.237.251 gateway.sei.cmu.edu 10.4.0.17 tis.com tis.arpa 10.2.0.20 dcec-arpa-tac.arpa 10.3.0.20 edn-unix.dca.mil edn-unix.arpa 10.5.0.20 dcec-psat.arpa 10.11.0.20 sccgate.scc.com sccgate.arpa 10.1.21.27 mcon.isi.edu 10.0.21.22 mcon.isi.edu 10.1.22.27 speech11.isi.edu 10.1.23.27 wbc11.isi.edu isi-wbc11.arpa 10.0.23.22 wbc11.isi.edu isi-wbc11.arpa 10.1.89.27 setting.isi.edu isi-setting.arpa 10.1.91.27 pallas-athene.isi.edu isi-pallas-athene.arpa 10.1.97.27 aikane.isi.edu isi-aikane.arpa 10.1.98.27 czar.isi.edu isi-czar.arpa 10.1.99.27 mycroft.isi.edu isi-mycroftxxx.arpa 10.1.124.27 cmr.isi.edu isi-cmr.arpa 10.1.156.27 png11.isi.edu 10.1.254.27 echo.isi.edu isi-echo.arpa 10.0.0.28 arpa3-tac.arpa 10.1.0.31 amc.xait.xerox.com cca-vms.arpa 10.4.0.31 xait-arp-tac.arpa cca-arp-tac.arpa 10.0.0.46 collins-pr.arpa 10.1.0.46 collins-gw.arpa 192.12.172.11 collins-gw.arpa 10.7.0.51 a-lhi-sri-03.arpa 10.3.1.54 jpl-robotics.arpa 10.1.0.63 bbn-arpa-tac.arpa 10.2.0.77 mit-arpa-tac.arpa 10.3.0.77 umass-gw.cs.umass.edu unix1.cs.umass.edu 128.119.40.12 umass-gw.cs.umass.edu unix1.cs.umass.edu 10.0.0.82 tacac.arpa 10.1.0.82 a-lhi-bbn-01.arpa 10.5.0.82 arpa-mc.arpa arpanet-mc.arpa 10.5.0.96 prc-gw.prc.unisys.com 10.2.0.99 vax-x25.arpa 10.3.0.99 bbn-x25-test3.arpa 10.4.0.99 bbn-x25-test4.arpa 10.5.0.99 test-host5-x25.arpa 10.0.0.115 anoc1.arpa 10.0.0.126 tycho.ncsc.mil tycho.arpa 10.1.0.126 afterlife.ncsc.mil afterlife.arpa 13.2.16.8 parcvax.xerox.com vaxc.xerox.com 13.1.100.206 arisia.xerox.com 13.0.12.232 xerox.com xerox.arpa 14.0.0.4 vtest.cs.ucl.ac.uk ucl-vtest.arpa 14.0.0.5 ess-tun.cs.ucl.ac.uk 14.0.0.9 tunnel.cs.ucl.ac.uk 15.255.152.2 sde.hp.com 15.255.16.7 hplabs.hp.com hplabs.arpa 16.1.0.1 decwrl.dec.com wrl.dec.com 16.10.0.1 vixie.sf.ca.us 16.1.0.2 gatekeeper.dec.com 16.1.0.3 cerberus.pa.dec.com 16.1.0.8 src.dec.com decsrc.dec.com 16.1.0.9 wsl.dec.com 18.72.2.1 mit.edu 18.77.0.2 mitlns.mit.edu 18.85.0.2 media-lab.media.mit.edu 18.87.0.2 euler.mit.edu 18.92.0.2 coventry.mit.edu 18.72.0.3 bitsy.mit.edu 18.79.0.3 lids.mit.edu 18.85.0.3 atrp.media.mit.edu 18.87.0.3 cauchy.mit.edu 18.92.0.3 mitvma.mit.edu 18.71.0.4 orpheus.mit.edu 18.86.0.4 xv.mit.edu 18.87.0.4 abel.mit.edu 18.79.0.5 lmpvax.mit.edu 18.86.0.5 dolphin.mit.edu 18.87.0.5 stokes.mit.edu 18.10.0.6 sludge.lcs.mit.edu mit-sludge.arpa 18.26.0.134 sludge.lcs.mit.edu mit-sludge.arpa 128.127.25.101 sludge.lcs.mit.edu mit-sludge.arpa 18.62.0.6 eddie.mit.edu mit-eddie.mit.edu 18.72.0.6 priam.mit.edu 18.85.0.6 ems.media.mit.edu 18.86.0.6 sloan.mit.edu 18.87.0.6 banach.mit.edu 18.71.0.7 jason.mit.edu 18.87.0.7 fermat.mit.edu 18.72.0.8 achilles.mit.edu 18.87.0.8 bourbaki.mit.edu math.mit.edu 18.10.0.9 gross.ai.mit.edu mit-gross.arpa 128.52.22.9 gross.ai.mit.edu mit-gross.arpa 128.52.14.1 gross.ai.mit.edu mit-gross.arpa 128.52.32.1 gross.ai.mit.edu mit-gross.arpa 18.87.0.9 archimedes.mit.edu 18.75.0.10 space.mit.edu 18.87.0.10 fourier.mit.edu 18.87.0.11 newton.mit.edu 18.71.0.12 paris.mit.edu 18.87.0.12 noether.mit.edu 18.80.0.13 charon.mit.edu 18.87.0.13 zermelo.mit.edu 18.72.1.14 eagle.mit.edu 18.80.0.14 prometheus.mit.edu 18.87.0.14 borel.mit.edu 18.87.0.15 poisson.mit.edu 18.87.0.16 schubert.mit.edu 18.62.0.17 dspvax.mit.edu mit-bugs-bunny.arpa 18.80.0.17 bloom-beacon.mit.edu 18.87.0.17 boole.mit.edu 18.27.0.18 fft.mit.edu 18.87.0.18 galois.mit.edu 18.27.0.19 dft.mit.edu 18.87.0.19 laplace.mit.edu 18.27.0.20 porky.mit.edu 18.87.0.20 ramanujan.mit.edu 18.92.0.20 po.mit.edu 18.27.0.21 sam.mit.edu 18.87.0.21 turing.mit.edu 18.87.0.22 russell.mit.edu 18.87.0.23 hypatia.mit.edu emma.mit.edu 18.87.0.24 laurent.mit.edu 18.87.0.25 bessel.mit.edu 18.87.0.26 cantor.mit.edu 18.87.0.27 fibonacci.mit.edu 18.87.0.28 lebesgue.mit.edu 18.87.0.29 pythagoras.mit.edu 18.85.0.30 hq.media.mit.edu 18.87.0.30 von-neumann.mit.edu 18.87.0.31 polya.mit.edu 18.87.0.32 pascal.mit.edu 18.87.0.33 euclid.mit.edu 18.87.0.34 bernoulli.mit.edu 18.30.0.35 cls.lcs.mit.edu mit-cls.arpa 18.87.0.35 hausdorff.mit.edu 18.26.0.36 xx.lcs.mit.edu lcs.mit.edu mit-xx.arpa 18.87.0.36 dedekind.mit.edu 18.87.0.37 jacobi.mit.edu 18.71.0.38 prep.ai.mit.edu 18.87.0.38 hermite.mit.edu 18.72.0.39 athena.mit.edu mit-athena.arpa 18.87.0.39 tarski.mit.edu 18.87.0.40 markov.mit.edu 18.87.0.41 godel.mit.edu goedel.mit.edu 18.88.0.55 cogito.mit.edu 18.27.0.56 goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu mit-goldilocks.arpa 18.10.0.71 pm-prj.lcs.mit.edu mit-prj.arpa 18.26.0.80 melange.lcs.mit.edu grape-nehi.lcs.mit.edu 18.88.0.80 hstbme.mit.edu 18.88.0.82 infoods.mit.edu 18.88.0.85 psyche.mit.edu 18.52.0.92 theory.lcs.mit.edu mit-theory.arpa 18.88.0.92 erl.mit.edu 18.26.0.94 thyme.lcs.mit.edu jhereg.lcs.mit.edu toadkiller-dog.lcs.mit.edu 18.26.0.95 larch.lcs.mit.edu mit-larch.arpa 18.26.0.98 rinso.lcs.mit.edu mit-rinso.arpa 18.26.0.106 tide.lcs.mit.edu mit-tide.arpa mit-tide tide 18.26.0.107 dash.lcs.mit.edu mit-dash.arpa mit-dash dash 18.26.0.114 hq.lcs.mit.edu 18.82.0.114 mgm.mit.edu 18.26.0.115 allspice.lcs.mit.edu ptt.lcs.mit.edu 18.26.0.121 lithium.lcs.mit.edu 18.72.0.122 ra.mit.edu 18.72.0.142 arktouros.mit.edu 18.71.0.151 mit-strawb.arpa strawb.mit.edu 18.70.0.160 w20ns.mit.edu 18.26.0.176 zurich.ai.mit.edu 18.80.0.181 osborn.mit.edu 18.80.0.191 delphi.mit.edu 18.30.0.192 vx.lcs.mit.edu mit-vax.arpa mit-vx.arpa mit-vax.lcs.mit.edu 18.10.0.195 big-blue.lcs.mit.edu mit-big-blue.arpa 18.48.0.195 live-oak.lcs.mit.edu oak.lcs.mit.edu 18.72.0.205 garp.mit.edu 18.30.0.206 zermatt.lcs.mit.edu 18.30.0.212 expo.lcs.mit.edu 18.48.0.216 wild-blue-yonder.lcs.mit.edu wild-blue.lcs.mit.edu 18.86.0.216 diamond.mit.edu 18.62.0.232 caf.mit.edu mit-caf.arpa 26.1.0.1 oberursel.mt.ddn.mil oberursel-mil-tac.arpa 26.3.0.1 rhe-eds.af.mil rhe-eds.arpa 26.5.0.1 obl-ignet.army.mil obe-ignet.arpa 26.6.0.1 pcc-obersl.army.mil 26.7.0.1 oberursel-emh1.army.mil email-oberursl.army.mil 26.0.0.2 emmc.dca.mil eur-milnet-mc.arpa 26.1.0.2 patch.mt.ddn.mil minet-vhn-mil-tac.arpa 26.3.0.2 eur.dca.mil dca-eur.arpa dca-eur.dca.mil 26.4.0.2 moehringen-emh1.army.mil 26.5.0.2 moehringen-ignet.army.mil igmirs-moehringer.arpa 26.6.0.2 patch.dca.mil patch.arpa 26.8.0.2 goeppingen-emh1.army.mil email-goeppngn.army.mil 26.9.0.2 nellingen-emh1.army.mil email-nellingn.army.mil 26.10.0.2 pcc-moeh.arpa moeh-pcc.army.mil 26.11.0.2 pcc-nell.arpa nel-pcc.army.mil 26.12.0.2 pcc-boeb.arpa bbl-pcc.army.mil 26.13.0.2 pcc-vaih.arpa vhn-pcc.army.mil 26.14.0.2 patch2.mt.ddn.mil vaihingen2-mil-tac.arpa 26.15.0.2 frg.bbn.com bbncc-eur.arpa 26.16.0.2 erf-boe.arpa bbl-erf.army.mil 26.0.0.3 sandiego.mt.ddn.mil sandiego-tac.arpa 26.1.0.3 trout.nosc.mil nosc.mil trout.nosc.navy.mil 128.49.16.7 trout.nosc.mil nosc.mil trout.nosc.navy.mil 26.2.0.3 logicon.arpa 26.3.0.3 nprdc.navy.mil nprdc.arpa nprdc.mil 192.5.65.1 nprdc.navy.mil nprdc.arpa nprdc.mil 26.4.0.3 mcdn-cpt.arpa 26.5.0.3 sdcsvax.ucsd.edu 128.54.20.1 sdcsvax.ucsd.edu 26.6.0.3 navelex.arpa 26.7.0.3 navelexnet-sd.arpa 26.8.0.3 sds-sandgoa.arpa sds-sandgoa.navy.mil 26.9.0.3 mirnas.arpa 26.11.0.3 navmeducapendleton.arpa 26.12.0.3 sssd.arpa 26.13.0.3 navmeducasandiego.arpa 26.14.0.3 sandiego-httds.arpa 26.15.0.3 scubed.com scubed.arpa scubed.scubed.com 192.31.63.10 scubed.com scubed.arpa scubed.scubed.com 192.16.16.70 scubed.com scubed.arpa scubed.scubed.com 26.16.0.3 grunion.nosc.mil nosc-ether.arpagrunion.nosc.navy.mil 192.42.2.2 grunion.nosc.mil nosc-ether.arpagrunion.nosc.navy.mil 26.18.0.3 comnavsurfpac.arpa 26.0.0.4 zwe-eds.af.mil zwe-eds.arpa 26.1.0.4 campbell-bks.mt.ddn.mil campbllbks-mil-tac.arpa 26.2.0.4 heidelberg-emh1.army.mil heidelberg-emh.arpa 26.4.0.4 heidelberg-perddims.army.mil perddims-hei.arpa 26.5.0.4 edas-scw.arpa szn-edasscw.army.mil 26.6.0.4 cpo-man-eur.arpa mhn-cpo.army.mil 26.7.0.4 hdg-ignet1.army.mil hhsp-ignet.arpa 26.8.0.4 hdg-ignet2.army.mil hei2-ignet.arpa 26.9.0.4 jacs6333.army.mil 26.14.0.4 pcc1.arpa hdg-pcc.army.mil 26.15.0.4 ccpd.arpa hdg-ccpd.army.mil 26.16.0.4 cpo-hdl-eur.arpa hdg-cpo.army.mil 26.1.0.5 karl-shurz.mt.ddn.mil bremerhaven-mil-tac.arpa 26.4.0.5 pals-68.arpa brn-pals1.army.mil 26.5.0.5 pals-67.arpa brn-pals.army.mil 26.6.0.5 oldendorf-am1.af.mil 26.7.0.5 bremrhvn-meprs.army.mil 26.8.0.5 bremerhave-emh1.army.mil email-klshzksn.army.mil 26.10.0.5 bremerhave-asims.army.mil brm-asims.arpa 26.11.0.5 dasps-e-562-b.arpa 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dmmis-wr.af.mil dmmis-wr.arpa 26.10.0.83 robins-am1.af.mil robins-am1.arpa 26.11.0.83 kngtrf.navy.mil kngtrf.arpa 26.15.0.205 kngtrf.navy.mil kngtrf.arpa 26.12.0.83 moody-am1.af.mil moody-am1.arpa 26.13.0.83 robins-piv-2.af.mil 26.15.0.83 robins-pc3.af.mil robins-pc3.arpa 26.16.0.83 remis-wr.af.mil 26.2.0.84 dahlgren.mt.ddn.mil nswc-mil-tac.arpa 26.3.0.84 oas.nswc.navy.mil nswc-oas.arpa +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Expert' comment From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:57:09 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:09 EDT From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment > This includes the complete TV program as broadcast on > FOX and after the program has the complete autopsy. Not exactly the complete autopsy. Those telltale "Frames" at the beginning are not there. I think some other things are missing as well. The most complete unfortunately is Ray Santilli's version. The one which cost about $60. I don't know if it is still for sale or not and I would not recommend sending him any money. Ray's version was titled "Roswell: The Footage" and carried the warning: "Some people may find the contents of this footage disturbing" HAH! In more ways than one. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: 'Beyond Belief' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 11:59:29 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:35:44 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Belief' >Date: 11 Apr 97 19:35:16 EDT >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Belief I wrote: >>In this case, the primary witness -- the "Cameraman" -- is still >>alive (according to Santilli), and we allegedly have the 1st >>generation film of the subject in question (again, according to >>Santilli). To which Herr Hesemann replied: >You missed my point, sorry. My point was that you can do >historical research even without personally interviewing the >witness or possessing the original of a document. I just talked >about the methodology, not the AA situation, since your point >was: "Without meeting the cameraman and having the original >film, what kind of investigation they did"... We must be missing each other's point. My question concerned the fact that the primary topics for investigation of the AAV (alien autopsy video), i.e., the actual "film" and the identity (and thus, the bona fides) of the man alleged to have filmed the event are both being deliberately withheld by Santilli. Doesn't this behavior (along with the documented evasions, mis-statements and lies) by Santilli indicate fraud to you and your associates, and if not, why not? >>Are you saying you have fragments of the film bearing the image of >>the "alien" or "autopsy room"? If so, this controversy could go a >>long way towards being resolved by having the film dated through >>chemical analysis. >I don't speak in pluralis majestatis yet, so if I say "we" I mean >the team, in this case Bob Shell, Phil Mantle, Maurizio Baiata and >Prof. Corrado Malanga. Unfortunately these frames don't show >the alien body and it is not sure if they show the autopsy room. >The result of a physical AND chemical analysis is that it was >Acetate Pripionate film as produced by Kodak before 1956. >At least the graining, quality etc. of the frames is the same >as in the Alien Autopsy Footage and we have Ray Santilli's word >that it is from the same stock. Furthermore the room it shows, >with a table in the center, might very well be the autopsy >room, although Theresa Carlton believes it isn't . From what I understand, the samples to which you refer do not contain images of the "alien" or the "autopsy room." Now Michael, surely you realize that if the film samples don't unambiguously show the "alien/autopsy room" then these samples are worthless for dating the purported autopsy "film," since such samples could have been culled from any film known to date from that era. If the film samples in your possession don't show the "alien" or autopsy room," why would you waste your time trying to date them -- and more important -- why would you (plural) continue to give the false impression that Santilli is providing materials to authenticate the "film" when he is clearly avoiding every opportunity to do so? >>Of course. But at least you can state with certainty that Frank >>Kauffman really exists. At this point, you can't even make that >>basic claim about Santilli's "Cameraman," can you? >With the same logic I could ask: How do I know the man I >met WAS the real Frank Kaufmann? The cameraman was inter- >viewed, I saw the footage. And - for the historical >research I did it is not important IF the cameraman exists or >really is what he claims or if the man we know got the film >from a colleague or whatsoever. We confirmed the EVENT took >place and we have every reason to believe the being on >the autopsy table indeed is not a member of the human >race. Even if Ray would "admit" he got the film and the >story in an envelope without the senders address that >wouldn't change a iota of our research results. To be more accurate, you saw a video of someone claiming to be the "Cameraman" and who provided absolutely no new verifiable data. While I may place Kauffman's ludicrous claims in the same category as the Santilli AAV, we can at least know that Kauffman really exists. With all the available data on the purported AAV "Cameraman," we still can't make that most basic assumption about whether the "Cameraman" really exists. Ultimately, since he's done absolutely nothing to permit the independent authentication of any aspect of the AAV, all we have is Santilli's word. From Santilli's record in this affair, I personally can't place too much confidence in his veracity. My question to you and your associates on the "IRT" is this: How can you believe any unverified claim Santilli has made, and continue to defend the authenticity of the AAV based -- ultimately -- on nothing more than the word of someone who has proved himself time and again to be a liar (and not a very accomplished one at that)? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 15 British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:42:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:47:50 -0400 Subject: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD Some intereting information on the recent "Black Triangle" sightings in Europe: Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:03:49 -0400 From: Bruce Cornet <bcornet@monmouth.com> Subject: Black Triangle Blackout in UK Press Websites with articles on and/or photos of black triangles or the areas they frequent: http://www.endoftheline.com/ufo/traingle.htm http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5782/ http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/mainpix.html http://members.aol.com/ufoia/pictures.htm http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/contents.hts http://www.algonet.se/~ufo/english.html http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/index.html http://www.alternetreality.com/ufo.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The End of the Line Black Triangle Blackout UK PRESS TOLD NOT TO REPORT BLACK TRIANGLE UFOs UFO Magazine Says Media Got "D-Noticed" On Mystery Aircraft [CNI News] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A top BBC executive let slip recently that there is a D-Notice on media reporting of the so-called "Black Triangle." The executive, who cannot be named, is the former producer of a very popular BBC science program. He told one of our team that the black triangle "craft," first witnessed by hundreds in the Hudson Valley region of the United States [mid 1980s], then by thousands in Belgium (1989-90) and more in Britain, has been "heavily D-Noticed" by the government. For this reason the BBC will not be reporting on the enigmatic craft, no matter how many witness reports they receive. According to the former science program producer, the reason the government has seen fit to slap a restrictive notice on reporting of the Triangle is because -- so far as the government has secretly informed the BBC -- the craft is part of a new secret military project, and as such must be protected under the secrecy laws. If this is the case, however, it surely begs the question: If the so called Black Triangle is a secret military aircraft, then what is it doing hovering over residential areas and frightening people half to death? Something somewhere simply does not add up. [CNI News adds: As noted by Nick Pope in the previous article, it is very unlikely that the "Black Triangle" aircraft can be explained as a secret military project. Its technical capabilities and flight behavior suggest it neither belongs to any earthly government nor falls within the envelope of human technology. Perhaps, then, the British media are actually being warned away from reporting on a fairly obvious example of "alien" craft intruding with impunity into British airspace.] (Part of Nick Pope's comments in his interview with Michael Lindemann follows...) <Picture> "What was generally reported was two lights, flying in a perfect formation, with a third, much fainter light -- our old friend the flying triangle, really. The lights were described as being in a triangle formation. It's difficult to say, of course. It's quite possible they could have been three separate things flying in formation, but the impression from talking to witnesses was that this was a triangular craft with lights mounted on the underside, at the edges. The most interesting reports, of course, were the ones which occurred at close distance. There was a family in Staffordshire who apparently saw this thing so low -- and they described it as either triangular or diamond shaped -- that they leapt into their car and tried to chase it. They didn't succeed, although at one point they thought it was so low that it had actually come down in a field. It wasn't there when they got to it. They described a low, humming sound, a very low-frequency sound. They said you didn't just hear this sound, you felt it, like standing in front of a bass speaker. The really intriguing thing was that this object, whatever it was, then proceeded to fly over two military bases. It was seen by the guard patrol at RAF Cosford, about three or four people, [who] made an instant report of this, obviously because it had flown over their base. They checked radar. There was nothing on the screens, nothing at all, and there was nothing scheduled to fly. No military or civil aircraft should have been airborne in that area at all. They phoned the nearby base at RAF Shawbury, about 12 miles away from Cosford. The meteorological officer there took the call. He was a man with about eight years experience of looking into the night sky and then doing the weather report for the next day. So he knew his way around objects and phenomena. Now, to his absolute amazement, he saw a light in the distance, coming closer and closer. That light eventually resolved itself into a solid structured craft that he saw again flying directly over the base, but at much closer proximity than the guard patrol at Cosford had seen it. He estimated that the height of the object was no more than 200 feet. Its size, he said, was midway between a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft and a Boeing 747. He heard the low hum, too. He had not spoken to any other witnesses, except the Cosford people, who I don't think had reported the sound. He reported this low-frequency hum. Perhaps most disturbingly of all, he reported this thing throwing a beam of light down at the nearby countryside and fields just beyond the perimeter fence at the base. And this light was tracking backwards and forwards, he said to me, "as if it was looking for something." The beam of light then retracted, and the craft moved off. It was traveling very slowly, I should say, probably no more than 20 or 30 mph. Then it gained a little bit of height, and then it just shot off to the horizon in little more than a second. Needless to say, that was a description I had come across many times in other UFO reports, the virtual hover to the high-Mach accelerations in an instant."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: {72} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:49 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:14:32 -0400 Subject: Re: {72} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network >Date: 15-Apr-97 03:26:27 MsgID: 823-74865 ToID: 76710,234 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >Subj: UFO UpDate: {72} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Parts: 1 UKUFON wrote; >This indicates that a hypersonic aircraft has been operating from >the UK, and that the ASTRA is that aircraft, but why was it sent to >Boscombe Down? Shouldn't somebody tell this lot that the ASTRA is a civilian waverider project? >(NASP remained a 'paper' aeroplane) Although the studies later went on to provide other concepts, like the 'Scarlet', 'pumpkin seed', 'HOTOL', 'Black Horse' and the various bidders for the X-33 contract. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Seeing is not believing From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:20 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:15:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:39:40 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Seeing is not believing >Yes and no. Kodak initially verified the film as absolutely from >1947, but this was a mistake caused by misinformation in the chart >they use to identify film age from edge codes. Kodak, officially, has never verified anything. Individual employees of Kodak, without any official authority, have verified the pieces of film that they saw as possibly being from 1947, but NONE of those pieces contained anything to prove they were from the film in question.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:43 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:11:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:12:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Sheffield UFO 'event' Rob Wrote; >For my brother-in-law, tasked with the responsibility of moving an >F-16 from Aviano AFB to nearby Pordenone, it meant three weeks >planning and the chopping down of an avenue of trees. Now, that's what I call flying low.... James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Arizona, AGAIN! From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:17:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:20:13 -0400 Subject: Arizona, AGAIN! Forward from Tom King. To: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) From: xalium@netwrx.net Subject: Re: Response on video requests Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:46:22 EST Bill and I recieved a call from a reporter at channel 10 news Jim Schnabel, that another MASS sighting had taken place last night. No calls to Peter Davenport or documented video that I have heard of. It might be on the news tonight. Tom King xalium@netwrx.net http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@sat.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 20:31:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:39:42 -0400 Subject: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? Don Allen got a call on his answering machine... Was it really the FBI ala X-Files threat to kill him if he did not stop investigating UFO stuff? Listen for yourself. YOu can hear it in real audio at: http://www.sat.net/~pparri/audio/ ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Botswana UFO Recovery? From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:18:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Botswana UFO Recovery? In a message dated 97-04-15 13:12:45 EDT, DRudiak writes: << >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:17:29 +0100 >From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Botswana UFO Recovery > >Can anyone shed any extra info on this one? > > >>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:03:28 +0200 >>To: darukane@dircon.co.uk >>From: wholeliv@iafrica.com (Whole Living) > > >>Received your reply an hour before leaving for a small town >>called McGregor (just south of Robertson), two hours east of >>Cape Town. We spent the night there in very stimulating >>company, being filled in on the UFO landing just inside the >>Botswana border a few years ago and how quickly and >>systematically the entire event was mopped up. From the very >>many eye-witness accounts there was a craft and two visible >>figures outside the craft, one moving and the other not. All >>traces of the craft and occupants were removed within hours by >>an american craft with the help of the S A airforce. According >>to radar records a craft entered space at an unclassifiable >>speed and was shot down with a device we apparently do not >>have. Anyway, the number of people who saw it in flight and >>before it was removed make it a difficult to brush under the >>carpet one. Witnesses who saw the American plane at the nearby >>airforce base, radar tracking records etc. etc. There are two alleged South African UFO crashes that I've heard about. The best known one in UFO circles dates to 5/7/89 and is supposed to have happened in the central Kalahari Desert, 80 km north of the South African border with Botswana. A 20 yard diameter disc tracked by radar was allegedly shot down by 2 South African Mirage fighters sporting experimental Thor 2 maser (microwave) cannons. This sounds like the story mentioned above. Two live, typical alien "grays" were allegedly recovered. This is now widely regarded as a hoax perpetrated by the principal informant, James H. Van Greunen trying to con money out of Western UFO groups. But there are those who still feel there's something to it. Another incident was reported on May 30, 1995, in a post by Michael Butow of the Univ. of Capetown in a post to alt.paranet.ufo. Butow said that Capetown radio KFM reported a UFO crash in the mountains near a citrus farm in the Western Cape area. Helicopters were reported searching the area. The radio suggested it may have been a small meteorite. Farmworkers, however, described the object as looking like "an aircraft without wings." I e-mailed Butow immediately afterwards. In a personal communication on 6/10, Butow could only add that an astronomer at the South African Astronomical Observatory, who apparently witnessed the event, classified it as a natural object, probably a large meteorite. And that's all I know about this event. David Rudiak --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: UFO UpDate: Botswana UFO Recovery? Date: 97-04-15 13:12:45 EDT From: DRudiak To: updates@globalserve.net In a message dated 97-04-14 17:12:35 EDT, you write: >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:17:29 +0100 >From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Botswana UFO Recovery > >Can anyone shed any extra info on this one? > > >>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:03:28 +0200 >>To: darukane@dircon.co.uk >>From: wholeliv@iafrica.com (Whole Living) > > >>Received your reply an hour before leaving for a small town >>called McGregor (just south of Robertson), two hours east of >>Cape Town. We spent the night there in very stimulating >>company, being filled in on the UFO landing just inside the >>Botswana border a few years ago and how quickly and >>systematically the entire event was mopped up. From the very >>many eye-witness accounts there was a craft and two visible >>figures outside the craft, one moving and the other not. All >>traces of the craft and occupants were removed within hours by >>an american craft with the help of the S A airforce. According >>to radar records a craft entered space at an unclassifiable >>speed and was shot down with a device we apparently do not >>have. Anyway, the number of people who saw it in flight and >>before it was removed make it a difficult to brush under the >>carpet one. Witnesses who saw the American plane at the nearby >>airforce base, radar tracking records etc. etc. There are two alleged South African UFO crashes that I've heard about. The best known one in UFO circles dates to 5/7/89 and is supposed to have happened in the central Kalahari Desert, 80 km north of the South African border with Botswana. A 20 yard diameter disc tracked by radar was allegedly shot down by 2 South African Mirage fighters sporting experimental Thor 2 maser (microwave) cannons. This sounds like the story mentioned above. Two live, typical alien "grays" were allegedly recovered. This is now widely regarded as a hoax perpetrated by the principal informant, James H. Van Greunen trying to con money out of Western UFO groups. But there are those who still feel there's something to it. Another incident was reported on May 30, 1995, in a post by Michael Butow of the Univ. of Capetown in a post to alt.paranet.ufo. Butow said that Capetown radio KFM reported a UFO crash in the mountains near a citrus farm in the Western Cape area. Helicopters were reported searching the area. The radio suggested it may have been a small meteorite. Farmworkers, however, described the object as looking like "an aircraft without wings." I e-mailed Butow immediately afterwards. In a personal communication on 6/10, Butow could only add that an astronomer at the South African Astronomical Observatory, who apparently witnessed the event, classified it as a natural object, probably a large meteorite. And that's all I know about this event. David Rudiak Search for other documents from or mentioning: drudiak | markp |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: (dis-)information and the Internet From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:33:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:43:28 -0400 Subject: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:46:25 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: (dis-)information and the Internet > Hello List ! > I'm writing this as a response/background to the recent discussions about > Maurice Chatelaine, Billy Meier and his 'exposure' by his ex-wife, the > validity of reports of certain UFO radio program presenters, the alien > autopsy film, and the discussion that we need a spokesmen/woman for the UFO > community. < snip > > I guess when 10 years ago something was written in the newspapers or shown > on TV, that would give a possible certainty about the accuracy of the > report, and therefore the report contained at least something that was > true (let's forget about the exceptions here for a moment). Sorry, I must comment that you are showing a certain naivete here. Does anyone remember the Pentagon Papers, Watergate. I think it might be fair to say that sometimes when one is ten years younger one may be more trusting. I do not believe that human nature, politics, print or Tv journalism have changed in the past ten years. But I wouldn't be discouraged Karl you are just ten years wiser and more experienced. > But with the big boom in communication technology and the Internet, any idiot, fool > and/or potential cult leader can publish their opinions, write stories, and > state them as being the truth. That applies to the web, and in the > newsgroups things are even worse. I've stopped reading newsgroups about > UFO's because most of the articles are of the "I had sex wit an alien !!!" > type. <snip> > It seems to me that the source of information has become more important > than it ever was. And that point is our first problem; most people do not > want to talk openly about UFOs, but often they will agree to talk about it > anonymously. Now most news reporters (except the tabloid style) check their > sources thoroughly. But as I said earlier, any idiot can cook a story from > "anonymous sources within the government" and spread it though the Internet. Checking the credibility of sources and methods is just as important as it ever was. the internet is merely a speeds up the same process of dissemintation of either correct or incorrect information; or makes it more accessible to a larger audience. > The source-dilemma becomes even worse when Art Bell puts transcripts of > caller interviews on his website. People can just call in and tell him any > story, whether it is anonymous, under a real or fictional name. Unlike most > journalists, Art doesn't check his sources at all, stating that his program > is for everybody that wants to say something on the air. Good observation, the listener must not assume that a broadcaster, journalist or writer is either objective or an authority; sometimes they are just providing entertainment. > Then there's the story of Maurice Chatelaine. He state's that he "worked for > number of aerospace organizations and industries and was supported by the > United States Navy, the United States Air Force, and NASA". Then according > to James Oberg he wasn't working for NASA at the time of Apollo 11. Then > Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied before, and that his statements are no > good. Who should we believe? Karel, you had answered my question as to who your source of information on Maurice Chatelain was. Was I correct that it was James Oberg? You have incorrectly stated "that Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied before". No I did not say he lied, I said that I observed that Oberg had been unable to substantiate claims he had made on unrelated matters. For all I know Oberg could be correct about Chatelain's position at the time of Apollo 11. I have not researched that issue or cross checked any sources on it. However the point that I was trying to make was that there is a difference in the information being circulated regarding Chatelain. I would be cautious about accepting at face value information coming from James Oberg as its source. < snip > > So what have we established in the past years? ~ZIP~ In the most > favorable cases, we know the names of the sources of information, their > pasts have been checked to a great extent, but we still cannot make "hard > evidence" of their stories. In the worst cases, we have a story only, no > source, nothing physical. We are still at point zero, we've always been at > point zero, and if we go on like this, we will always stay at point zero. I think it is an overstatement to adopt this position, but I imagine its frustrating and discouraging. > Combine that with the effort that AFOSI's Richard Dothy has put into > spreading rumours and lies about government involvement (read the lines, I > didn't say the government isn't involved), feeding the UFO community > disinformation up to the point that we make ourselves ridiculous, argue > with each other, or make ourselves questionable at the least. This is a potentially high stakes field and many interests and organizations are players in it; and it should not be surprising that this would include the intelligence organizations. > And then I haven't even talked about that bunch of "remote viewers" that > claim to be in contact with aliens. Their alien thoughts being "channeled" > to humanity through them. No wonder the media are talking about UFO Cults. > So we need a spokesmen huh? For what? What do we have that we can > possibly say We can't even agree on a single theory, so what could we > possibly bring out as a unified statement? We can only agree on our > impression that UFOs exist.... Unless we hijack a UFO and land on the > White House's lawn, we don't have much to make statements about, do we? > Yes, we have miles of video footage, tons of pictures... But that it isn't > enough to get attention and be believed, because NASA, CIA, FBI, etc. all > say that they "cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's" and therefore > they officially don't exist. Who's gonna believe us if we say they do? I am sure many readers of the list can empathize with your frustration. Perhaps you would be less frustrated if you were seeking answers for yourself and not your peers or their adulation. > Best regards, > > Karel Bagchus. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 CSETI DC Briefing Report From: "Steven M. Greer M.D." <Dr_ET@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:03:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:57:47 -0400 Subject: CSETI DC Briefing Report REPORT ON THE CSETI DC BRIEFINGS APRIL 7-11 1997 copyright 1997 Steven M. Greer M.D. Background: CSETI founded Project Starlight over three and a half years ago as an initiative to identify the best scientific evidence related to UFOs and Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Of particular importance is the identification of bona-fide military, intelligence, government contractor and other government agency employees with direct, first-hand knowledge of the UFO/ET subject. The goal of the CSETI Project Starlight initiative is to present the best available evidence and witness testimony in a manner which would constitute a definitive disclosure regarding the reality of the UFO/ET subject. This is to be done in a scientific, non-sensational and hopeful manner, assiduously avoiding an alarmist tone or emphasis. Since 1993, Dr. Steven Greer, CSETI Director, and other CSETI Project Starlight team members, have provided preliminary briefings for White House staff, a sitting Director of Central Intelligence, senior military leaders, senior United Nations leadership, members of the Senate and House of Representatives, international leaders, and leaders in foreign governments, among others. It has always been our intent to effect this disclosure in cooperation with the United States and other governments, if possible. We are acutely aware of the vast and profound implications of this matter and for this reason have carefully included key government figures and offices in our deliberations and plans. From the start, it was made clear that, while we desired a cooperative effort leading towards disclosure, the matter would be disclosed through a civilian-led initiative should the government choose to be uninvolved. Through exhaustive and repeated private briefings with various government leaders, we learned that this subject was being managed in a way which kept the majority of our constitutional leadership uninformed on the subject. It became clear that we should collect the best evidence and witnesses and provide unmistakable and unambiguous information to these leaders so that they could make a decision on how to proceed. Obviously, unless the leadership was informed, there could be no chance of their disclosing any information to the public, or of even convening an open hearing and inquiry. On 15 November 1997, a letter was sent to all pertinent offices of the United States Government asking for a determination on the validity of national security oaths related to the UFO/Extraterrestrial subject. In this letter, which is available on the CSETI website (www.cseti.org) it was stated that it was our assessment that these oaths and restrictions were null and void, since the oversight of the projects related to this subject was improper, illegal and extra-constitutional. Further, it was stated that, unless otherwise directed by 1 January 1997, we would regard all military, intelligence and other government-related witnesses to UFO/Extraterrestrial projects and events as free to speak openly about what they know concerning this topic. No corrective measures or statements - oral , written or otherwise - were submitted to us by 1 January 1997. Through back-door channels it was conveyed that we would be allowed to move forward, and that our progress was being noted by various military, intelligence, government and private groups connected to the subject. Pursuant to the above letter, since no instructions stating otherwise were sent by the US Government, CSETI proceeded to plan a Washington DC Briefing for this spring, as promised. During the week of April 7-11, the CSETI Project Starlight team convened a gathering of nearly 20 first-hand government witnesses to UFO/ET events. These events principally took place at the Westin Hotel in Washington DC, although separate briefings took place at the Pentagon and elsewhere in the Washington vicinity. All of the US government witnesses which were present signed a statement that they are willing to testify under oath before an open hearing in the US Congress concerning the UFO/ET projects and events which they personally and directly witnessed. These government UFO witnesses spanned from the early 1950s to the 1990s, and represented events and/or projects observed while these witnesses were in the Air Force, Army, Navy, NASA, private industry and intelligence operations. Most of these witnesses had top secret clearances and were testifying regarding events which took place while they had those clearances. It should be noted that the witnesses which were assembled during the week of April 7-11 are the courageous tip of a much larger iceberg: There are 107 such first-hand government UFO witnesses who have been identified to date, and who should be subpoenaed by the Congress to testify in open hearings. Conceptually, these witnesses may be divided into three levels: >Level One Witnesses. These are witnesses who are ready and willing to come forward today, as a unified coalition, to disclosure what they know about the subject. There are 44 such witnesses thus far identified. >Level Two Witnesses: These are witnesses who have been identified but feel intimidated about coming forward and request the protection of Congressional hearings and the protective effect of a Congressional subpoena. They number 55. >Level Three Witnesses - These are witnesses who are known to us but who are considered probably hostile or uncooperative witnesses. They would need to be subpoenaed and treated as potentially hostile witnesses. There are at least 8 such witnesses in this category. The Washington Briefings of April 7-11, 1997 The purpose of the events of April 7-11 were as follows: >To gather together bona-fide first hand government UFO witnesses to further solidify the coalition of such witnesses who are willing to come forward with definitive, unambiguous information concerning the UFO/ET subject. >To convene a closed, confidential briefing for members of Congress, congressional staff, White House staff, military leaders and other Washington leaders on the subject, and for these leaders to hear the direct testimony of the US government and military witnesses. This briefing was designed to present the best scientific evidence and witness testimony to establish the reality of the subject matter, and to specifically ask for open congressional hearings on the matter. >To conduct a background educational briefing for interested members of the media. >To provide private briefings to other military, intelligence and political leaders as needed. All of the objectives listed above were met. (All members of Congress, the President, Vice-President and key cabinet officials, as well as key military and intelligence leaders, were invited to the briefing. Further, they were offered the opportunity to receive private briefings at their convenience during the week.) Chronology: April 7, 1997: Various CSETI support staff arrive, as well as early arrival of some of the US government witnesses. En route with one of the Eisenhower era witnesses, Dr. Greer et al discuss witness' contacts to the president of a Latin American country which may be helpful in obtaining a United Nations symposium on the subject. April 8, 1997: Arrival of all US Government witnesses, CSETI staff and others. During a lunch meeting, Dr. Greer, Shari Adamiak and one of the US government witnesses meets with a producer for a major investigative TV program, to provide background information and an overview of the subject. At 6 pm, all witnesses, along with Apollo Astronaut Edgar Mitchell and CSETI staff, gather for dinner. Introductions and an overview of the project's plans and goals were provided. At 10:30 pm CSETI support staff gather to discuss logistics, security and other issues related to the events of April 9 and 10. April 9, 1997: 7:45 am breakfast meeting between Dr. Greer and an influential former member of Congress who offers to help us move this subject forward in the Congress. 9 am - 1 pm : Gathering of US Government Witnesses, with statements recorded. This is a closed meeting for the witnesses and senior CSETI staff, at which detailed accounts of the witnesses experiences related to their US government service or employment is shared. It is also a time of bonding and support for the witnesses as a coalition. 1 pm- Lunch with the witnesses and CSETI team. Dr. Greer also briefs during lunch an important Washington figure who offers to help network this subject to various points in the Washington leadership. 2:30 pm -5 pm - Continuation of US Government Witness testimony and recording of statements. 5 - 5:45 pm - Dr. Greer meets with new witness who relates definitive testimony related to Los Alamos and other facilities. (This is a Level Two Witness) 7 pm - 7:40 pm Reception for members of Congress, Congressional staff, foreign embassy staff and other Washington VIPs and leaders. 7:45- about 10 pm - Closed Briefing for members of Congress and Congressional staff, etc. Nearly 30 congressional offices were represented by either members of congress or staff members. Also present were VIPs from the executive branch, foreign embassy staff, government scientists, representatives sent to the briefing by 2 state governors' offices, and many other dignitaries. During the briefing, participants were introduced to a substantial Briefing Document which contains numerous scientific cases and over 250 pages of definitive and unambiguous US Government documents related to the subject. The government documents were selected from a larger collection of several thousand. Many were provided to CSETI by the CIA in 1994. These participants also viewed a collection of excellent photographic, video and movie footage evidence spanning over 40 years and from every continent. Eleven first hand government and military witnesses were selected to testify before this group of government leaders. For over one and a half hours, they provided definitive and unambiguous testimony regarding UFO/ET events. Their testimony ranged from a world-renown astronomer who was present when an apparent extraterrestrial signal was received at the Harvard observatory (SETI) facility, to an Eisenhower military top secret witness who saw ET metal debris from a UFO crash, to a NASA employee who saw a picture with a UFO clearly in broad daylight which was destined to be air-brushed out before release, to a Navy employee with a top secret clearance who was present in 1981 during a major encounter off the eastern seaboard, which was tracked by satellite, radar, and chased by military planes with a resulting clear day- time photograph. The richness of detail of this testimony, and the down-to- earth sincerity of these witnesses, was very moving to the gathered officials. At the end of the briefing, one of the Congressional staffers came to the podium and, unsolicited by us, appealed to those congressional staffers and members of congress gathered to take definitive steps to let this information out to the public. Numerous congressional offices represented at this historic briefing expressed a sincere desire to move this subject forward and to work with us in obtaining open congressional hearings as soon as possible. There was great enthusiasm for this, and one staffer from a congressional office has volunteered to coordinate these efforts in Washington with CSETI. The combination of the extensive briefing materials, videotape evidence, first-hand witness testimony and the participation of so many congressional offices and other Washington leaders and dignitaries certainly constitutes the most historic civilian gathering in UFO/ET history. In planning this event, we had hoped for positive RSVPs from 5-10 Congressional offices. The participation of nearly 30 such offices, as well as representatives from the executive branch and 2 state governors, certainly exceeded our expectations. Each congressional office and VIP were provided with: >The CSETI Briefing Document and related case materials >The Videotape summary of photographs, videos and movie footage of UFOs >A copy of the 1965 Edwards Air Force Base Air Traffic Control Tower tape of multiple UFO encounters, with transcript Following the presentation, a number of congressional staffers remained to discuss this subject with the witnesses and CSETI staff and leaders. April 10, 1997: 10 am - Briefing at the Pentagon for very senior military staff . The CSETI team present included five members: Dr. Steven Greer, Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, Shari Adamiak, CSETI's military advisor and an Eisenhower-era first hand UFO/ET witness. This historic briefing lasted nearly one and one half hours and was enthusiastically received by senior Pentagon staff present. During the afternoon of April 10, follow up with various congressional staffers, other Washington VIPs and the media took place. 7 pm - Reception for invitation-only media briefing. Note: Uninvited media were not allowed into this meeting. For example, long time debunker Phil Klass appeared without an invitation and was politely removed from the reception area. Similarly, had tabloid media appeared, they too would have been asked to leave. This meeting was a background educational briefing for major media only. 7:30 pm - Media Background briefing begins. Present are UPI, The Boston Globe , NBC, ABC the BBC and others. Seven first-hand witnesses provided statements to the media, and a general overview of the subject was provided by Dr. Greer. Following the briefing, a question and answer period took place, and the media all had excellent and insightful questions. It should be noted that the above meeting was a background press briefing, not a press conference. The purpose of the meeting was to provide scientific background materials, and to introduce the invited media to the concept of open congressional hearings on the subject. The CSETI media team felt that such a meeting would be an important step towards preparing the mainstream media for a future disclosure, and would encourage them to cover the subject in an informed and serious manner. Future Strategic Considerations: Much work remains to be done to follow up with the considerable interest generated by these briefings. We will be forming a DC Coordinating Committee of congressional staffers, members of congress and other Washington area leaders to facilitate the educational and networking process needed to realize open Congressional hearings on this subject. Strategically, we sense the need to move quickly with consolidating any interest in Congress on this subject, and to call for open hearings in the near future. In a parallel and therefore complementing effort, we are working with points of contact to other nations and the UN to facilitate an open symposium on the subject at the UN in the near future. We have been advised that the best route to achieve this is to secure the support of other nations with missions to the UN and have them directly ask for such an inquiry and symposium. Anyone with contacts to other nations which may be helpful in this regard should contact Dr. Greer as soon as possible. Unless there are positive results from these efforts within a reasonable amount of time, it is our intent to move forward with a civilian disclosure process independent of any governmental involvement. We feel that the subject must be placed on the national and international agenda, and that we must have the resolve to move forward with or without specific governmental support or involvement. However, the gravity of the subject, together with the far-reaching and deep ramifications of such a disclosure, necessitates a cautious, deliberate and inclusive policy for the present. We feel that it is imperative to provide excellent scientific cases, evidence and witness testimony to appropriate government leaders, in the US and elsewhere, thus empowering them to take the subject seriously, and to provide positive leadership. Only after such efforts, which are nearing completion, can we feel that we have done all that is possible to empower the democratic institutions which are the bedrock of our society. As a civilian group taking a leadership position in this matter we feel that it is essential that we also move towards a global civilian multi-media educational project. Even should the Congress or UN take up this subject, it will be necessary for us to continue to provide perspective, a framework of understanding on the subject, and accurate information and evidence. The concerned and interested public are encouraged to do the following to assist us in this historic undertaking: >Write and call your congressional representative and members of the Senate from your state asking them to support open congressional hearings on the UFO/ET subject. >Help us in identifying further first-hand US and other government UFO witnesses who may join in the historic and courageous witnesses coalition. >Help us identify more of the best available evidence on the subject, including scientific cases, photographs, movie footage, videotape footage, government documents,and extraterrestrial artifacts (such as metal samples and biological samples). >Assist us in networking this project to national and international leaders who can further assist in establishing a global disclosure on the subject. >Help us identify sources of funding for this historic effort. We urgently need a full time staff to pursue the momentum already created; we have clearly gone beyond the point where an all- volunteer effort can be effective. The time has come for the world to know that we are not alone in this vast universe. The era of excessive secrecy, which is so corrosive to a free and democratic society, must end. Working together, we can create a truly open and free society, which through much deliberation and wise efforts, may someday take its place among other planetary civilizations. 15 April 1996 Steven M. Greer M.D. CSETI Director PO Box 15401 Asheville NC 28813 704-274-5671 - Fax: 704-274-6766 email: Dr_ET@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:17:09 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:54:50 -0400 Subject: Re: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? >Subject: "FBI" Kills over UFOs? >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 20:31:34 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@sat.net> >Don Allen got a call on his answering machine... >Was it really the FBI ala X-Files threat to kill >him if he did not stop investigating UFO stuff? More likely, it was his 'friend', Larry Jaster, trying to get even for having been exposed. HOPE Don has a trap on his phone, that jerk needs to be in JAIL!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 UFO group seeks hearings on "cover-up" From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:39:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:52:13 -0400 Subject: UFO group seeks hearings on "cover-up" For informational purposes only. Regards, Bill Ralls Source: Ft.Worth Star Telegram 4/15/1997 WASHINGTON - No one cited Comet Hale-Bopp or Heaven's Gate when a UFO group, backed by an astronaut who has walked on the moon, called last week for hearings on what they say is a government cover-up of earthly visits by extraterrestrial life forms. The only references to Independence Day or the X Files were uttered by Dr. Steven M. Greer, director of the Center for the Study of Extrterrestrial Intelligence, who assailed the sci-fi fare as part of the "90 percent of what people are exposed to on this subject: rubbish, complete and utter nonsense." Greer and the former astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, told reporters and congressional officials in separate closed-door briefings that their assesment of extraterrestrial activities, although widely disputed, requires urgent federal attention for the good of humankind. Greer, Mitchell and a panel of "witnesses" asserted that several extraterrestrial civilizations - working together from bases within the solar system and possibly from temporary outposts under water on Earth - regulary visit the planet and are prepared for widespread contact with humans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:05:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:27 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Department of Defence Server Listing > Hi List ! > This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April 1997, > Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. > Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew < deleted > With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication that it is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer systems in search of information on UFOs is it any wonder that the intelligence services monitor those interested in the phenomenon. In my opinion this is out of bounds. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:24:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:58:56 -0400 Subject: Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from > Date: 15 Apr 97 20:50:45 EDT > From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD > >Date: 15-Apr-97 05:12:17 MsgID: 823-75255 ToID: 76710,234 > >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net > >Subj: UFO UpDate: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD > >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Parts: 1 < snip > > I understand that I may be wee-weeing on half-a-dozen > bonfires, but hasn't it been considered that there is > more than _one_ flying triangle? I mean, I tend to > assume that just because I see a plane it isn't a > devilishly fiendish 'morphing' plane that accounts > for worldwide sightings of said contraptions. > James A Diss The USA had its black triangles too, this is documented in the book NIGHT SIEGE - The Hudson Valley UFO Sightings by Dr. Allen Hynek, Philip J. Imbrogno with Bob Pratt Ballantine Books 1987 $6.95 ISBN: 0-345-34213-5 Thousands of people sighted black triangular or boomerang shaped craft just a few miles from New York City back in the early 1980s. So now they are visiting our English cousins. Those who are interested in the concept of how aircraft can be made to morph, change their appearance or have decreased visibility even in daylight - daylight "stealth" - will find the following article in the popular press interesting. Hiding in Plane Sight by Steve Douglass & Bill Sweetman Popular Science May 1997 pp. 54-59. Discusses the Navy's 1943 Project Yehudi and the Vietnam era Compass Ghost for decreasing aircraft visibility. More up to date and interesting is the discussion of "active skin" techniques for producing visual daylight stealth. The designers haven't been able to provide chameleon like capabilities yet but they are trying. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Fortean Times Unconvention From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Apr 97 06:58:10 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:42:27 -0400 Subject: Fortean Times Unconvention If there are there any ufologists on this list who are going to the Fortean Times UnCon. going to be in London on Friday night and would like to hang out for a drink/chat/gossip etc please get in touch. Myself and colleague Dave Clarke will be down in the big city from 5.00pm and we'll talk to anyone! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:54:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:41:40 -0400 Subject: Strange Universe area 51 alien At 11:33 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Strange Universe area 51 alien >Like many of you I watched the footage of the area 51 >alien (all 3 seconds of it!) with curiosity and an >open mind. I honestly don't know what to make of it, >much less have an oppinion as to whether it's real or >not. Who knows? >I would like to share the following: >1. Strieber was right, whoever made the 'dummy' knew >what these things look like. Right down to the skin >color. The bugger on the tape 'looks' just like them. If they had clearly shown the few seconds of video they had clearly it might have helped. The show did all it could to stretch out the program to fill the full half hour, with nothing but annecdotal remarks provided by experts who were allowed to simply view the full sequence on a monitor and then comment. There was no indication of any analysis by Strange Universe of the video from a technical perspective. The problem that I have with the "alien" is that the image is so vague that the viewer is likely to use their imagination or memory to "fill in the blanks", which means that it would obviously look "right". The outline of the head isn't even clear in many frames and even the shape of the head is somewhat of a guess. If you listen to Whitley's comments, he never says that the alien looks real. He says that it's a horrible video and he never wants to see it again, and if it is real it represents a terrible crime. Of couse those viewing the program probably thought that he had lost his mind, because all you see is three seconds of video with the head barely moving and a small light moving up and down in the lover right. Those who have followed the thread here would be aware that (according to Sean David Morton's description) the "alien" allegedly has an attack of some sort at the end and two technicians come to its aid. It it likely this section of the video that upsets Whitley, but the average viewer wouldn't know that. At no time did the program attempt to describe the entire video sequence, which was a missed opportunity (IMHO). This also holds true for Bob Dean's comments, who responded in a fashion that indicated he was very upset with what he had seen. If one isn't aware of the entire sequence, one would question why he was affected by the simple viewing of the video. The program made a major factual error, which doesn't bode well. While trying to fit the video into context, they mentioned the "Alien Autopsy" film as being shot at Area 51, along with images of a (poor) mock-up of the Santilli alien. This does not follow the sequence of events, as outlined by Ray Santilli's statement from the cameraman, and doesn't fit the time frame, since Area 51 (The Groom Lake Base) was created in 1955. Unfortunately, they make this statement repeatedly. I have found "Rocket Films" on the WEB, but can't tell if that is the same company that is putting out the "Interrogation" video by the summer. I have tried contacting them, and await their response, but this may not be the same group. On the video, they were identified as "Rocket Pictures" or "Rocket Productions", and a search of those names didn't return anything of use. If anyone has an address for this company please post it to the "net", as I'm sure a number of people might like to contact him. As far as the interview with person who took the video from Area 51 is concerned, it looked very staged to me and if I had been directing it, I would have suggested that he was over-acting. "Victor" was back-lit, and his voice was modified electronically, but I don't think that his identity would be hidden by someone with good digital equipment. We will have to wait for the video release to see the entire sequence, and perhaps then a full analysis of the video will help to determine its veracity. I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion of this on the "net", but the Strange Universe program didn't really clear up much and served to publicize a future release of a video (which was obviously the intent of Rocket Films (or Production or whatever). Just a few thoughts. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: (dis-)information and the Internet From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:13:19 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:30:11 -0400 Subject: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet At 12:43 AM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:33:59 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: (dis-)information and the Internet >> I guess when 10 years ago something was written in the newspapers or shown >> on TV, that would give a possible certainty about the accuracy of.... >Sorry, I must comment that you are showing a certain naivete here. Does >anyone remember the Pentagon Papers, Watergate. Hmmm. I'm not a history buff, and certainly not fully up to date on American history, but weren't these stories broken by newspapers ? >I think it might be >fair to say that sometimes when one is ten years younger one may be more >trusting. I do not believe that human nature, politics, print or Tv >journalism have changed in the past ten years. But I wouldn't be >discouraged Karl you are just ten years wiser and more experienced. I have no idea wether I'm ten years younger, more or less naive, more or less trusting, more or less experienced, and to whom would I compare ? >Checking the credibility of sources and methods is just as important >as it ever was. the internet is merely a speeds up the same process of >dissemintation of either correct or incorrect information; or makes it >more accessible to a larger audience. Yes, the web makes it faster, but there's another side of the coin too. The other side is that dis-informants use the internet too, and becouse of the distances between people, conversations through e-mail, and basically unidentifieable sources, rumours spread many times faster than they used to do, picking up more gravity as they go. How many time's do you read "e-mail interview" below an article in the "AUFORA News Update" newsletter ? And the recent STS-82 conversation that's now popping up on numerous websites. who has actually verified the audio tape ? >> Then there's the story of Maurice Chatelaine. He state's that he "worked for >> number of aerospace organizations and industries and was supported by the >> United States Navy, the United States Air Force, and NASA". Then according >> to James Oberg he wasn't working for NASA at the time of Apollo 11. Then >> Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied before, and that his statements are no >> good. Who should we believe? >Karel, you had answered my question as to who your source of information >on Maurice Chatelain was. Was I correct that it was James Oberg? Allright, I've got an email from legion@werple.net.au (John Stepkowski) regarding my Astronouts & UFO's section of the KUFOR site. He wrote the statements about Chatelain and referred to James Oberg; "You refer to "NASA's Maurice Chatelain" at your site. Chatelain never worked at NASA. He was a low-level engineer who worked for a NASA sub-contractor who built the Apollo communications systems. His status as the "head of communications" (as some UFOlogists have claimed), is entirely false. Additionally, when James Oberg contacted Chatelain's employers he learned that Chatelain was no longer employed by them when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. If he was no longer an employee of a NASA sub-contractor then he could not have been present in any so-called "secret room" where he could overhear the confidential communications of the astronauts on the lunar surface." Since I didn't knew what to make of it anymore, I've put both vieuwpoints on the website. But this all isn't what I'm writing about. The point being brought up by me is what we consider as evidence, how we work with the internet to our advantage while avoiding the pitfalls and how we can unify to put a serious opposition to government denial. >You have incorrectly stated "that Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied >before". No I did not say he lied, I said that I observed that Oberg >had been unable to substantiate claims he had made on unrelated >matters. I see that I've misintrepeted your comments, thanks for the correction and my apoligies to you. >> So what have we established in the past years? ~ZIP~ In the most.... >I think it is an overstatement to adopt this position, but I imagine its >frustrating and discouraging. [and] >> So we need a spokesmen huh? For what? What do we have that we can ..... >I am sure many readers of the list can empathize with your frustration. >Perhaps you would be less frustrated if you were seeking answers for >yourself and not your peers or their adulation. Maybe I should elaborate more on why I'm in this. I want to know the truth. And I want the truth to be known to others too, otherwise I would be doing the same thing as the goverment does. I've got over 50 Mb of videoclips on my website, so I guess I can say I've seen enough to have an ~opinion~ about UFO's and their existence, although I've never personally witnessed an UFO myselve. But do those clips verify beond a doubt that UFO's and ET's exists ? Listen to the discussions and you'll know they do not. For every single peace of "evidence" there are dozens of reasons why the footage could be dismissed. Debunkers can come up with anything, from "Not realistic enough" to "It looks like it's too real to be trough, so it's probably a fake". So we can chase leads to photographic evidence for years, but until we come up with something physical, like a UFO, or a life or dead alien, that we can show to the press, the established organisations like NASA and Pentagon will continue to deny the existence of UFO's. And who do you think the press will believe ? Allright, what is evidence ? Is it a book, picture, or movie ? Is it evidence when "Billy" in the WhiteHouse says that UFO's exists ? Maybe I sound a bit sceptical here.... I've e-mailed a bunch of Dutch government officials, most of them didn't reply at all, 2 of them wrote to me that they didn't believed in UFO's and wished me good luck. So maybe instead of chasing events caused by ET's and UFO's after they've happened and being burned by official denyal, we should focus on contacting aliens ourselves. And if contact has been established, and we have physical evidence of alien existence, ~then~ we need a spokesperson beouse then we have something to make a statement about. Best Regards, Karel. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:12 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:41:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment >The most complete unfortunately is Ray Santilli's version. >The one which cost about $60. I don't know if it is still >for sale or not and I would not recommend sending him any >money. Rebecca, I didn't mention this one because it is no longer being sold and I have not seen it in video stores. Ray has tentative plans to re-issue it later this year in a new version with the introductory material substantially revised to include new information which has come out since the initial release. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:36:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:20 EDT >>>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:39:40 +0100 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Seeing is not believing >>Yes and no. Kodak initially verified the film as absolutely from >>1947, but this was a mistake caused by misinformation in the chart >>they use to identify film age from edge codes. >Kodak, officially, has never verified anything. Individual employees of >Kodak, without any official authority, have verified the pieces of film >that they saw as possibly being from 1947, but NONE of those pieces >contained anything to prove they were from the film in question. Ok, lets pick some nits. When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. That's why he agreed to buy it. Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak Denmark stated that the film was definitely from 1947. The problem, as I have been told by Kodak personnel, is in the chart used to identify film. This shows the edge code, a square and a triangle, as being solid for 1927 and 1947, and as being drawn in outline for 1967. Kodak people, being presented with a solid square and triangle, would naturally say that the film was definitely 1947 (since no one has suggested it is as old as 1927) if they were unaware that this is simply a mistake in the chart. So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the film was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak had verified the film, this is what he was referring to. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:16 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:37:33 -0400 Subject: 'Expert' comment >Date: 15 Apr 97 19:23:25 EDT >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >>More airy pontification, which is just what we need on this subject. >>Pay a visit to a medical museum, my friend, and LOOK at what was >>in use in 1947 before spouting nonsense. >Including biohazard Level 4 suits with air and comms lines that >fed into their FEET? Haw haw haw, hee hee hee. WHOOPs, I fell over. Your worship, There are many things about the film which I question, including the idea of biohazard suits with air lines feeding from the feet. The point I keep trying to make is that people should not state as fact things which they know nothing about. I did look at period surgical instruments and other parephernalia in museums before concluding that they ones in the film are accurate. I do not know about the suits, since I have not yet seen anything exactly like them in any museum or document. Air lines in the feet do sound silly, but that doesn't mean that some silly things were not done. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:50:39 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:40:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing Hi Gary, At 10:05 AM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Department of Defence Server Listing >> This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April 1997, >> Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. >> Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew >< deleted > >With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication that >it is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer systems in >search of information on UFOs is it any wonder that the intelligence >services monitor those interested in the phenomenon. >In my opinion this is out of bounds. Do you think that the military wouldn't spy on UFO researchers if their systems aren't being hacked anymore? Do you think that the Pentagon is going to release all 12,000 secret documents about UFOs that have been laying in their basement for years, just because we're all a happy family now? Best regards, Karel. +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Cleefs@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:43:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien I have been watching all the talk about aliens and how the look in the updates. I was watching a tv show on a disease that makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past the age of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however being men of medical background, some of you, I am sure you know which one I mean. There was this 15 year old girl on the show that looked remarkably like the depictions of aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet tall, bald, head large, big bulging eyes. I wonder if at some time one of these children afflicted with this disease was used for photos, or a so called interview? If you see the poor children afflicted with this you will see the similarities.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: UFO group seeks hearings on "cover-up" From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:35:41 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO group seeks hearings on "cover-up" From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:39:47 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: UFO group seeks hearings on "cover-up" > Greer, Mitchell and a panel of "witnesses" asserted that several > extraterrestrial civilizations - working together from bases within > the solar system and possibly from temporary outposts under water on > Earth - regulary visit the planet and are prepared for widespread > contact with humans. I wonder if Mitchell concurs with Greer that cattle mutilations are actually an operation conducted by humans to make the greys look bad? Personally, I think this whole things is crazy and I'm sorry to see Edgar Mitchell mixed up in it. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 16 Posting Rules From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:59:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:59:07 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: 'Expert' comment From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:24:26 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:35:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 15 Apr 97 19:23:25 EDT >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >The Duke of Mendoza begins to despair. But compliments to all... >>Date: 15 Apr 97 11:29:07 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment >>More airy pontification, which is just what we need on this subject. >>Pay a visit to a medical museum, my friend, and LOOK at what was >>in use in 1947 before spouting nonsense. >Including biohazard Level 4 suits with air and comms lines that >fed into their FEET? Haw haw haw, hee hee hee. WHOOPs, I fell over. >Back to the Kook's Museum where that movie belongs, Bob. >Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza My compliments to the Duke of Mendoza, Perregrine, the Firm Yet Fair. Yes, one has to wonder about those poor pathologists tripping-over and stepping-on each others' air and communication lines. I'd say that was a bit of a design flaw (on the part of Ray Santilli, that is). Vince I Supreme Primate, THE NEW WORLD ORDER "C'mon and join the NWO!" Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:33:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:49:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Department of Defence Server Listing >> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:27 +0200 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Department of Defence Server Listing >> Hi List ! >> This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April >> 1997, Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. >> Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew [deleted] >With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication >that it is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer=20 >systems in search of information on UFOs is it any wonder that=20 >the intelligence services monitor those interested in the phenomenon. >In my opinion this is out of bounds. >Gary Alevy It is highly unlikely that anyone could gain anything=20 by "hacking" into any system connected to the Internet. =20 There are internal networks that are not connected, and=20 massive "firewalls" set up on those that are, and all IP=A0 traffic is monitored, so the effort would not prove to=20 be worthwhile. On the other hand, it may draw attention=20 to the person attempting to gain entry and the legal ramifications could be severe. I would also agree that such activity, or the encouragement=20 of such activity, should not be advocated. Many in this=20 genre have suggested that actions by the government have crossed the line of legality, but that doesn't mean we=20 should act in the same manner.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:21:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:01:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:46:10 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Strange Universe area 51 alien >Hiya Errol, hi All! and Hi again from me >I welcome opinions from others. As usual, have fun! heres mine for you I don't know if any of you have Paint Shop Pro ver4.1 but you can "emboss" most pic's to see what stands out, if anything, and in this picture not a lot. Also (picture quality is'nt good enough for too much magnification but) there is nothing visible in the background, which suggests to me a "staged shot". I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth Sean [Jones] http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: bigdogs <bigdogs@jetlink.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:25:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Department of Defence Server Listing >> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:27 +0200 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >> Subject: Department of Defence Server Listing >> Hi List ! >> This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April 1997, >> Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. >> Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew >< deleted > >With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication that it >is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer systems in >search of information on UFOs is it any wonder that the intelligence >services monitor those interested in the phenomenon. >In my opinion this is out of bounds. Not to mention that I tried connecting to a number of these and they didn't even work or don't exist. A new reader, Pat Dennison * *** ****** ********* ************** ************************ ******************************** ************************************** ******************************************* * Welcome 2 bigdogs' World * * http://www.jetlink.net/~bigdogs/ * ************************************************* * California Guys Ltd. Photography Gallery * * http://www.silcom.com/~bigguys/index.html * *********************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:23:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:13:52 -0400 Subject: Re: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'FBI' Kills over UFOs? >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:17:09 EDT >>Subject: "FBI" Kills over UFOs? >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 20:31:34 -0500 >>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@sat.net> >>Don Allen got a call on his answering machine... >>Was it really the FBI ala X-Files threat to kill >>him if he did not stop investigating UFO stuff? >More likely, it was his 'friend', Larry Jaster, trying to get >even for having been exposed. [>Listen for yourself. YOu can hear it in real >audio at: >http://www.sat.net/~pparri/audio/ ] Uh, you REALLY meant to say " that perverted fiend", right, Bud? <g> This happenned last summer at my workplace. He had called me a week before my workplace shut down for vacation, but I hung up on the jerk and it didn't dawn on me at the time to try and trace the call. During the vacation, he left this "message" on the company answering machine and it was discovered upon our return. While the "threat" was obviously bogus,it did concern me enough that I contacted the FBI and played it to them over the phone. HOPE Don has a trap on his >phone, that jerk needs to be in JAIL! I surely agree he does, but for now, just the fact he's been exposed and caught with his hand in the cookie jar goes a long way in stopping it for good. I noticed Wharton's Web Page disappeared very quickly, so fast it has to be some kind of record. When he was exposed he began to deny it almost immediately and claimed that "someone" hacked his account. What do you figure the odds are that "someone" just happenned to pick Wharton's account to "hack", out of all the accounts at his provider, to post 'larry jaster' messages from? I'd say it's beyond astronomical. Wharton cum "Jaster" messed with the wrong person, Pat Parrinello, and it cost him dearly. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: billjaco@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:20:55 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:04:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien > From: Cleefs@aol.com > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien > remarkably like the depictions of aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet > tall, bald, head large, big bulging eyes. I wonder if at some > time one of these children afflicted with this disease was used > for photos, or a so called interview? > If you see the poor children afflicted with this you will see > the similarities. However, they have relatively normal looking human organs, 5 fingers, and no sucking discs. Bill Jacobs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:15:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:51:10 -0400 Subject: Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:42:46 -0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Britich media declines to cover Black Triangles per D- >Notice from MOD >Some intereting information on the recent "Black Triangle" >sightings in Europe: >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:03:49 -0400 >From: Bruce Cornet <bcornet@monmouth.com> >Subject: Black Triangle Blackout in UK Press >Websites with articles on and/or photos of black triangles or the >areas they frequent: >http://www.endoftheline.com/ufo/traingle.htm >http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5782/ >http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/mainpix.html >http://members.aol.com/ufoia/pictures.htm >http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/contents.hts >http://www.algonet.se/~ufo/english.html >http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/index.html >http://www.alternetreality.com/ufo.htm >------------------------------------------------------------------ [SNIP] There are also some interesting articles on Anomalous Flying Wings and Triangles at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/ John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Another 'piece' of Roswell From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:21:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:57:49 -0400 Subject: Another 'piece' of Roswell Hi Errol Hi all I have recently come into some information that might or might not be old news to you lot but I thought that I would put it to you lot to see what you think of it. I was told that the reason that the military thought that they could get away with saying that it was a weather balloon was because the wreckage found in July was not a vast amount. Apparently, or so I am told, that actual crash happened a month before and that a clean-up operation missed some, and this is what was found on Mac Brazel's ranch. Also the report that Jesse Marcel released about a captured "flying saucer" was about a second one found in the nearby mountain range a few days or weeks after the first crash. This would tie in some details, like for instance why, if a lot of wreckage from a crashed UFO the military would try to explain it away as a weather balloon. *?* It would also confirm why the local people could not find anything when they went to look up at the ranch only days later. Surely a clean up operation of that scale could not be organised in a matter of hours back in '47. It would also explain why there are conflicting reports about the wreckage and a crashed "complete" saucer. Comments anyone I am a passenger on this spaceship, Earth Sean [Jones] http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 20:04:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:17:40 -0400 Subject: Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? Greetings, I'm quite sorry, but I'm going to have to unsubscribe from this list. I don't have enough time to read everything, and messages just take up time to download. I've become quite involved in a new web project known as Helios (http://www.helios.org/), and am not able to spend as much time working with AUFORA. Thanks! Dave Watanabe davew@aufora.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 UFO's brought to earth with a bump From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:11:25 -0400 Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump Hello! Here's something we retrieved for you: ---------------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 By Robert Uhlig, Technology correspondent It is official. UFO's do not exist, aliens have never visited Earth and all flying saucer sightings are now referred by the military to private organisations, the American Defense Department said yesterday. The announcement was prompted by the suicide of 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult in California who killed themselves because they believed their souls would be transported to eternal life on a spaceship following the Hale-Bopp comet. "We cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's and we are not harbouring remains of UFO's" department spokesman Ken Bacon said. Convinced there was no extra-terrestrial threat, the Pentagon has long since stopped recording of UFO sightings, Mr Bacon said. But enormous public interest in the existence of intelligent extra-terrestrial life has been fuelled by television programmes such as "The X Files" and hundreds of Internet sites addressing the topic. Of 12,618 reported UFO sightings investigated by the US Air Force between 1947 and 1969, none "represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of our scientific knowledge," Mr Bacon said. No UFO reported, investigated or evaluated posed a threat to America and there was no evidence that the UFO's were extra-terrestrial vehicles, he added. Most sightings of supposed UFO's could be explained either by weather conditions, such as lightning or unusual cloud formations, or by aircraft movements, he said. Ends. ---------------------------- End of Document ------------------------ Many greetings from Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin, Germany. Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de or: JKoch1@compuserve.com Homepage of The International Roswell Initiative, Germany: http:\\ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:23:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:27:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien > From: Cleefs@aol.com > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > I have been watching all the talk about aliens and how the > look in the updates. I was watching a tv show on a disease that > makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past the age > of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however being men of > medical background, some of you, I am sure you know which one I > mean. There was this 15 year old girl on the show that looked > remarkably like the depictions of aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet > tall, bald, head large, big bulging eyes. I wonder if at some > time one of these children afflicted with this disease was used > for photos, or a so called interview? > If you see the poor children afflicted with this you will see > the similarities. The name of the disorder you are looking for is progeria or Hutchinson-Guilford disease, which is a condition in which a relatively young person has some physical characteristics of senility, particularly in regard to the face.. There are also forms of progeria with cataracts and progeria with micropthalmia (small eyes). I saw no resemblence of the "Area 51 alien" to any examples of progeria I have seen. Seems like the Area 51 alien video will be a re-hash or worse of the controversy surrounding the Santilli Alien autopsy. These Rocket guys did Santilli one better. They conducted the video interview with "Victor" off site (that hairy face mask)so they are out of the picture. You had to laugh when Victor got up threatening to stop the interview, how melodramatic. Even if the video were real its clear that this video will waste many peoples time trying to establish its bonafides given the way it was presented and the manner in which the reviewers Dean, Strieber, et. al. were used to provide an aura of credibility. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:41:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:27:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:50:39 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing > Hi Gary, > At 10:05 AM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Department of Defence Server Listing > >> This listing is taken from "The CodeZero Technical Journal, April 1997, > >> Issue 002". Maybe it is of use to someone. > >> Department of Defence Server Listing by The CodeZero crew > >< deleted > > >With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication that > >it is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer systems in > >search of information on UFOs is it any wonder that the intelligence > >services monitor those interested in the phenomenon. > >In my opinion this is out of bounds. > Do you think that the military wouldn't spy on UFO researchers if their > systems aren't being hacked anymore? Do you think that the Pentagon is > going to release all 12,000 secret documents about UFOs that have > been laying in their basement for years, just because we're all a happy > family now? > Best regards, > Karel. No I don't think that they would stop spying on UFO researchers. However, secrecy is sanctioned by law. However, what you are doing is clearly encouraging a criminal act and espionage. Post the Netherlands military and intelligence computer network nodes and who do you think will be knocking at your door and monitoring your phone line? Besides do you really think that all these materials are on computer systems hooked up to public networks? Not on paper, not in security vaults? Nothing came of the NBC news event which puported to show someone who hacked UFO information. Have you seen the material he supposedly got? Did it change anything? Could it be verified? Critical systems are not on public networks or by now shouldn't be (the military and intelligence services at least have now organized information warfare groups and these guys are savy to this stuff). How you spend your time (hacking) and where it could lead you to (jail?) is not my business but my sympathy is not with you on this one. Sorry. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:27:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:27:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:41:59 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing >> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:50:39 +0200 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing End of public discussion on this thread - please take it to e-mail. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Apr 97 23:02:23 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:28:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing Er, Bob, >When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak >while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge >codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. I don't think it was known publically where Ray first saw the film. Tell us more. <G> Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien/progeria From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:03:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:49:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien/progeria >From: Cleefs@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien >I have been watching all the talk about aliens and how the >look in the updates. I was watching a tv show on a disease that >makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past the age >of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however being men of >medical background, some of you, I am sure you know which one I >mean. The disease you refer to is called progeria, more formally Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome. The victims do indeed bear a slight resemblance to the stereotypical grey, but they look even more like tiny old people. See http://www.mwc.edu/rmacmich/progeria/ for a description of the disease. Interestingly, though, a progeria victim did portray an alien in a forgettable film of some years back, called, I believe, "The Aurora Incident." It concerned the old chestnut about an alien spaceship crashing in Texas in the 1890s-as so beautifully parodied by the Firesign Theater on "Everything You Know Is Wrong." Bruce W. always glad to help with triviA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:36:40 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:47:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >>From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:20 EDT >Ok, lets pick some nits. >When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak >while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge >codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. >That's why he agreed to buy it. >Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak >Denmark stated that the film was definitely from 1947. >The problem, as I have been told by Kodak personnel, is in the >chart used to identify film. This shows the edge code, a square >and a triangle, as being solid for 1927 and 1947, and as being >drawn in outline for 1967. Kodak people, being presented with a >solid square and triangle, would naturally say that the film was >definitely 1947 (since no one has suggested it is as old as 1927) >if they were unaware that this is simply a mistake in the chart. >So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the >film was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak >had verified the film, this is what he was referring to. >Bob Again, I say, _NO_one at Kodak, or anywhere else, has verified any frames from the original film that had BOTH the date codes, AND identifiable scenes from the 'autopsy'. If they exist, there would be NO good reason for not giving them to someone to verify. That point alone is good enough reason to doubt the film, but there are FAR more, IF one looks at it critically, and not through rose-colored glasses.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:12:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:53:59 -0400 Subject: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" April 17 at 05.15 CET: 17. April 1997 06.11.05 alt.alien.visitors Item From: webmaster@ufocenter.com,usenet Subject: Anomalous object in satellite photos To: alt.alien.visitors Webmaster /Politiken Internet,usenet What appears to be a large anomalous object was captured on both visible and infrared images by the GOES-9 satellite today at 8:30 am Pacific Time. It was also reported on CNN today that NORAD has entered a heightened state of alert. Links to the satellite images can be found on our web site at http://www.ufocenter.com The center's director, Peter Davenport, will be discussing this incident tonight on the Art Bell radio program. David Stepien Webmaster National UFO Reporting Center -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:11:05 -0600 From: webmaster@ufocenter.com To: webmaster@ufocenter.com Subject: Anomalous object in satellite photos Message-ID: <861246240.20911@dejanews.com>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:58:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing > Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing > >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) > >Kodak, officially, has never verified anything. Individual employees of > >Kodak, without any official authority, have verified the pieces of film > >that they saw as possibly being from 1947, but NONE of those pieces > >contained anything to prove they were from the film in question. > Ok, lets pick some nits. Yes, lets pick some nits!!! I just love nits! > When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak WAIT A MINUTE! The "internal flight" was to Florida? You know that for sure? Or are you guessing? Or has Ray told you that? OR have I missed this new piece of the puzzle? > while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge > codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. > That's why he agreed to buy it. I seem to remember something about this. But I also remember someone saying that Ray didn't know about film. It has been claimed he didn't know about edge codes. Is he a fast learner? How did he know to call about the edge codes? > Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak > Denmark stated that the film was definitely from 1947. I don't think that Tommy Jensen is an official from Kodak but I'm prepared to be wrong about that. Why doesn't someone call Kodak Copenhagen and find out if Tommy Jensen still has a job and what his capacity is or was in 1995? That's one more nit to pick. But the "letter" I saw looked like a fax memo message. It was sent to Tripple Entertainment. But the film that Tommy Jensen was given was referred to as "countdown footage." That is something which is added later. It is not part of the footage. Even Ray, who knows nothing about film should know that! And I think that is what you have ignored here. It was a point made by Bud Jamison: "... but NONE of those pieces contained anything to prove they were from the film in question." So before you go blaming a problem with the chart, admit that KODAK in Denmark never saw any film that was from the autopsy footage. It doesn't matter that the chart was wrong. Kodak has NEVER had any footage readily identifiable from the autopsy footage. Get some of that to them, and then we can bring in that problematic chart. [snipped the mess about the chart] > So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the > film was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak > had verified the film, this is what he was referring to. No, you have verification that the strip of film that Tommy Jensen at KODAK in Denmark saw was from '47. So he verified some countdown footage. Please note, I did not call it leader because I know that is a nit you like to pick. Go find some more nits. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Fortean Times Unconvention From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:51:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Fortean Times Unconvention In a message dated 97-04-16 23:16:08 EDT, you write: > Date: 16 Apr 97 06:58:10 EDT > From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Fortean Times Unconvention > If there are there any ufologists on this list who are > going to the Fortean Times UnCon. going to be in > London on Friday night and would like to hang out > for a drink/chat/gossip etc please get in touch. > Myself and colleague Dave Clarke will be down > in the big city from 5.00pm and we'll talk to anyone! Caught me just in time Andy! If you'll talk to anyone, maybe you'll talk to me. <g> I'll be in London somewhere near something called Tavistock. <g> I'll be sans laptop and the best bet would probably be to post some details to this list or James Diss. Thanks. Looking forward to whatever. <g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Taking Exception With A Comment From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:11:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:59:41 -0400 Subject: Taking Exception With A Comment Dear Mrs. Clinton: I do hope that this eventually does reach you, although I understand that you likely have a staff dutied to the task of screening and reviewing the probable plethora of messages daily directed to your attention. This is in regard to a statement (and it's context) that you recently made... While being questioned about a completely unrelated topic, you recently made reference to people "obsessed" with UFOs. This comment might not have been as ill-received as it was (by MANY), if you had not delivered it with a sarcastic tone, then laughed scornfully about the idea. Your delivery of the comment does a great injustice to those who approach the subject from a serious research and investigation point of view. With that one statement, you (who people respect and listen to) have relegated the entire subject to the realm of lunacy, fantasy, gullibility, and those feeble of mind. It is true that a portion of the public might fit into one or more of the personality types above. Yes, unfortunately "UFOlogy" has its share of those individuals (as do all societal fields of interest). But by no means can ALL interested in the subject be swept into these categories. I am part of the "unseen" underlayer of serious, earnest, and discerning researchers who are attempting to logically and realistically determine answers to some very real and necessary questions about various aerial phenomena. We are loosely organized, by our interests only, across this nation, as well as across the world. I know that you are perceptive enough to understand that I am not alluding to an "organization" per se. Most of us are independents, who share a common interest. It is a matter of high concern, to the group I describe, that the media and our elected leaders treat the subject with such flippancy and brevity. It seems that the huge bulk of media and official attention to the subject is basically concerned with belittling and castigating those involved. To listen to those media and official channels, the average citizen would almost certainly surmise that ALL of us in this field are "cultists," "eccentric," or just flat "loopy." This is NOT the case, Mrs. Clinton. We fully understand that the vast high percentage of unidentified flying objects DO have a mundane and quite logical explanation. We are equally aware that many "sightings" are most likely misidentifications of celestial bodies, satellites, aircraft, and even occasional viewing of experimental (probably classified) vehicles. There remains a small yet significant percentage of truly anomalous items; those are the ones that have our attention. I refer you to volumes of information, which originate directly from government and military sources, which have come to light regarding the above; most through Freedom of Information Act release. And it is quite interesting that so many of our civil, intelligence, and military agencies have disavowed possession of material or even interest in the subject, when queried, then to find documentation concerning such in released files, with reference to other documents on the subject in as yet unreleased articles. I certainly don't want you to think that I am approaching the "conspiracy" idea, because that is not my aim at all. I fully understand the concept of national security and necessarily covert projects. Much of this material likely does directly concern national security, and any American should respect that aspect of the subject. Please consider that we in "UFOlogy" are not all the uneducated, misinformed, and irrational individuals that you, from your statement, perceive us to be. My colleagues and I are sometimes busier debunking the rubbish, exposing the charlatans and "disturbed," and attempting to rationally explain many misconceptions than we would like to be. That material DOES exist, we cannot deny. But to consign us ALL to the element consisting of the "UFO nuts," the tragically misguided (as in the recent Heaven's Gate case), the con artists and shysters, and those who have psychological aberrations is quite narrow-minded, as well as a perceptual error. Mrs. Clinton, please don't misconstrue this as disrespectful, but I must consider that perhaps you are not in a position to truly comment on the subject from an informed perspective. It appears that you have only been exposed to this material from the general media-perpetuated point of view. If you could find the time to investigate the flip side of that media coin, you might find that the "study" of UFOs is not quite as absurd as you seem to think. If my perception of your attitude and stance on the subject is in error, I humbly submit my deep and earnest apologies. If it is not, then I invite your comments and thoughts; I view you as an intelligent, logical, and studious person and would be interested in your perspective. In fact, I invite your comments, whatever your point of view. I will be copying this letter to others in this field, and I am certain that all would be fascinated with your input and address of the issue. In closing, let me invite you to peruse our web site on this subject. I think you might be surprised at our attitude and disposition, as we present a site that is pointedly devoted to exposing those who would exploit and sensationalize the subject beyond credibility, as well as presenting the most compelling cases of truly anomalous events. I understand that the First Lady likely has little time for "surfing the web," but I think you might reconsider and retract the statement that you made, after understanding the serious side of this matter. You won't find any "Independence Day," "Star Trek," or other such fiction at our site, but a surprisingly level-headed approach to the material. We look forward to your response. In high regard, Glenn Joyner Contact Information: Glenn Joyner P. O. Box 870891 Mesquite, Texas 75187-0891 E-Mail: infohead@airmail.net Fax: (972) 686-4799 Web Site: http://ufo-world.simplenet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 22:16:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:55:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? Mac users, I would like to announce the launch of a great new Macintosh news site! http://www.helios.org/mac/ Helios Mac News offers the latest news from the Macintosh industry, as well as special coverage of new Mac software and sites on the internet. Helios News has experience in the delivery of news though its Helios Science (http://www.helios.org/) and AUFORA (http://www.aufora.org/) news sites. We definately think that we can deliver the most relevant and useful Macintosh news anywhere! So if you are a Mac user, or just interested in information technology, please check out this new site. http://www.helios.org/mac/ Thanks! Dave Watanabe http://www.helios.org/mac/ (why not link to helios mac news?)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Botswana UFO From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:25:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:59:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Botswana UFO (Errol, I'm not replying to the mail in the normal way, due to the known problems with my mail software. I'll copy and paste as I go along) >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:17:29 +0100 >From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Botswana UFO Recovery >Can anyone shed any extra info on this one? >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:03:28 +0200 >To: darukane@dircon.co.uk >From: wholeliv@iafrica.com (Whole Living) >Received your reply an hour before leaving for a small town >called McGregor (just south of Robertson), two hours east of >Cape Town. We spent the night there in very stimulating >company, being filled in on the UFO landing just inside the >Botswana border a few years ago and how quickly and >systematically the entire event was mopped up. From the very >many eye-witness accounts there was a craft and two visible >figures outside the craft, one moving and the other not. All >traces of the craft and occupants were removed within hours by >an american craft with the help of the S A airforce. According >to radar records a craft entered space at an unclassifiable >speed and was shot down with a device we apparently do not >have. Anyway, the number of people who saw it in flight and >before it was removed make it a difficult to brush under the >carpet one. Witnesses who saw the American plane at the nearby >airforce base, radar tracking records etc. etc. Myself and Jan Lamprecht (he of Hollow Earth fame) debated this issue at length last year sometime. Unfortunately, due to space and software problems, I am unable to re-post our dialogue. However, the bottom line came down to the following: 1) The info we had on the Military Intelligence section that was involved was rediculous. In the report, we had a Colonel of Intelligence, in command of hundreds of MI men, reporting to the local General! Reality is that the local Intell officer is probably a Major at best, and the local CO is only a Colonel or Brigadier! Military Intelligence HQ is in any case in Pretoria, 800KM (500 miles) away, and the Intell Officer would use this as his chain of command. The chain of command defined in the report did not fit SADF SOP (South African Defence Force Standard Operating Procedures), and the Lesotho police are also not bound to report to the SADF, but rather the Lesotho Defence Force. 2) None of the names mentioned as pilots or officers of ground troops checked out with our National Intelligence Service contacts 3) The time-line (chronological sequence of events) didn't check out: the time taken to report, verify, and respond to the Intell was too short. The only way to get troops to the crash site from the Bloemfontein South African Infantry base or the Parachute Battalion base in time, would be by a night-parachute drop over mountainous terrain with no time for a Warning Order or detailed command & logistics. The report mentioned "a company of soldiers". That's 200 plus troops in a night drop! The most that could be inserted safely would be a platoon (30-35) abseiling or alighting from Air Force Puma choppers. 4) Extraction of saucer: depending on the size, this MIGHT have been lifted by Super Frelon or Puma, but most likely would require a flat-bed articulated rig. This would take at least 6 hours to get there from the nearest military base. Again the time-line is out. 5) American plane: Lockheed in all probability? Would take at least a day to get to Bloemfontein. I don't see the SA Gub'mnt just handing a saucer over, considering that the incident, if I remember correctly, happened prior to the election of Nelson Mandela, and SA and the US weren't really bed-mates at that stage. HOWEVER: I'm open to any new info regarding this incident. If anybody has more detail, please post it, and I'll do my best to run with it from this side. Jakes Louw Search for other documents from or mentioning: louwje | markp |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 I present my new webcreation: "ufo.htm" 2 minute From: MASSEYPROD@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:13:59 -0400 Subject: I present my new webcreation: "ufo.htm" 2 minute From: Jim Massey of Venice, CA To Art Bell's Webmaster cc: SETI List Re: Would you consider adding a link to my page as a report on the Art Bell Show of this night. http://www.dev-com.com/~massey/ufo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:41:48 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:00:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien >From: Cleefs@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 >I was watching a tv show on a disease that >makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past >the age of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however >being men of medical background, some of you, I am sure you >know which one I mean. There was this 15 year old girl on >the show that looked remarkably like the depictions of >aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet tall, bald, head large, big >bulging eyes. The disease concerned is called "progeria". The following from http://chs-web.neb.net/people/students/sdweber/progeria/ toc.html: "Progeria was discovered in 1886 by Jonathan Hutchinson. It was not officialy named until 1904 when Hastings Gilford gave it the name Progeria. The disease is also commonly called Hutchinson-Gilford syndrome,after these two researchers." "If a person is found to have Progeria, there is nothing that can be done. There is not a known treatment for the disease. The person could live a fairly normal lifestyle for about 20 years of their lives. The only thing that should hinder an affected person is the physical appearance of him or her. This person will not have to worry too much about this though, since he or she will be dead by the time he or she turns 30. " There was a local case that I remember clearly (little chap called Hansie Geringer), and I must admit that there are certain aspects of the disease that reminds one of the basic characteristics of a grey. HOWEVER: To say this type of poor person was used in the Area 51 interrogation footage would imply that somebody is EXTREMELY sick!!! (in the head I mean). Jakes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 UFOMagazine.com From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:20:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:09:41 -0400 Subject: UFOMagazine.com Hello and welcome back to UFO Magazine's Web Site. Much has happened since our last update. As the entire world knows, the tragedy of the Heaven's Gate mass suicide impacted UFOlogy worldwide. Even now, anyone attempting to look into the subject of UFOs is immediately assigned to the ranks of "nuts and cultists." (See UFO Magazine Editor Vicki Cooper Ecker's essay, "Hillary's Cheap Shot.") All legitimate researchers have suffered yet another terrible black eye. For years, UFOlogy has suffered a total lack of critical thinking by people who call themselves "researchers." In my current editorial called "Aftermath of Heaven's Gate," I relate the incident of a recent Art Bell show that had on for about a half hour one Guy Kirkwood. This man bills himself as a former Air Force interceptor pilot who in the 1950s was part of a very secret Air Force squadron that chased and photographed UFOs. Kirkwood's story is entirely fraudulent. Compounding this is that two Sothern California MUFON chapters, one in L.A. and another in San Bernardino, scheduled Kirkwood to speak on his "experiences." In 1992, I detailed an entire expose on this long-time hoaxer (UFO Magazine Volume 7, No. 3). Speaking to representatives of both chapters, and sending them our expose, I have learned that they still have Kirkwood on their agendas! No matter how many times these types of hoaxes are exposed, very few in the field either accept this kind of bad news or are willing to confront it. It is kind of like the cliche, "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!" "But I really enjoy a good story!" is another answer we receive. The Art Bell "Coast to Coast" late-night radio show is another example of selling schlock as fact. I covered the Bell controversy in my editorial, but as long as people do not or will not use critical thinking, we remain mired in "fuzzy thinking." This is one principal reason no one in the straight media or science will take the UFO field seriously. A new wrinkle in the UFO field was just seen on TV-- the "alien interrogation film." I recently watched the television program "Strange Universe" air a couple of seconds of it, and the UFO "experts" who were questioned about it. Robert Dean was one of them. A former military senior enlisted man, Dean has achieved status in the fish pond of UFOs from a report he says he viewed while in NATO Headquarters concerned with the UFO enigma. As he watched this film, tears filled his eyes. Okay, let's use some logic. If this film was smuggled out of Area 51, and was the "real deal"--in other words, an actual secret film-- and Area 51 is one of the most well known, top secret areas in the U.S. "Black Budget Black Hole," and a real live alien being was really filmed being interrogated by some of the most clandestine military and intelligence agents on the globe, do you really think that good ol' Uncle Sam would let it get on this late night tabloid TV show? If you really think they couldn't stop it, stop reading and get back to your correspondence with the Tooth Fairy--I am disturbing your quality time! This is the type of operation that is designed to destroy real investigations into real events, like the Hudson Valley sightings, STS-48 and others. Don't be fooled by obfuscations like this. And if you want the real information, keep coming back here. Oh yes. And before I forget, "Keep those eyes to the skies!" Don Ecker
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Arizona sightings From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:08:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:08:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:04:27 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Arizona sightings Hiya Errol, hi All, I wrote a review for the list after I viewed the video that Tom King is getting out west. This is an addendum: I wrote, "Well, I just got through reviewing a copy of the Arizona sightings videotape that Tom King sent me. WOW! This is a "must see" for all who believe that UFOs, unmarked black helicopters, and media cover-ups are just the product of overworked imaginations or attention seekers! =============================================== Well, I got permission from Tom to use some of his stuff so I've made a single frame capture from his video of the black helicopters that were buzzing his house as he attempted to videotape a UFO. Is anyone (everyone) out there paying attention to this material? The implications of evidence like this are staggering and frightening. They (have to) have originated from nearby Luke AFB. If the black helicopters are real, what else are the guys I fondly refer to as, 'conspiracy nuts' right about?! Sure as hell giving me cause to give some of that material a re-think. I want this jpeg to be seen and checked out by others. If you can prove it's a 'fake' then by all means go for it. If not, we really need to talk about it and circulate this information as far and wide as we can. We need (a lot of people) in on this. This, is as 'serious' as it gets folks. We're not living in the country we think we are. There is *someone* out there with the power to put crap like this over, without reporting to the people through congress. These dangerous clowns represent/work for US! I say put 'em behind bars or on unemployment ASAP. Just one citizens opinion. Again, I'll quote my favorite bard, Bob Dylan; Sing along if you know the words! A maj - G maj - F maj "...the hour is getting late!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 08:39:20 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:27:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien >From: Cleefs@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien >I have been watching all the talk about aliens and how the >look in the updates. I was watching a tv show on a disease that >makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past the age >of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however being men of >medical background, some of you, I am sure you know which one I >mean. There was this 15 year old girl on the show that looked >remarkably like the depictions of aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet >tall, bald, head large, big bulging eyes. I wonder if at some >time one of these children afflicted with this disease was used >for photos, or a so called interview? >If you see the poor children afflicted with this you will see >the similarities. You are talking about progeria, premature age disease. It comes in two forms, one of which is apparent very early, and one of which strikes in mid teens. Both produce characteristics of advanced age in young people. Victims of progeria resemble the Santilli creature only in a few very superficial ways. Typically they do not have enlarged eyes, and they generally do have enlarged noses and ears, just the opposite of this creature. They also have loose, wrinkled skin, while our beloved SUE is very smooth. Doctors who have looked at the film for me have all said that attempting to use progeria as an explanation is ridiculous. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: (dis-)information and the Internet From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:31:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:52:12 -0400 Subject: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet About Maurice Chatelain: > >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:33:59 -0400 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: (dis-)information and the Internet Gary, discussing things in many previous posts, quotes: > >> Then there's the story of Maurice Chatelaine. He state's > >> that he "worked for a > >> number of aerospace organizations and industries and was > >> supported by the United States Navy, the United States > >> Air Force, and NASA". Then according to James Oberg he > >> wasn't working for NASA at the time of Apollo 11. Then > >> Gary Alevy said that Oberg had lied before, and that his > >> statements are no good. Who should we believe? And he replies: > Since I didn't knew what to make of it anymore, I've put both > vieuwpoints on the website. Why not call NASA and ask yourself? Just ask for their press or public information office. And you might consult past volumes of Who's Who. There might be a science and technology Who's Who volume, which would very likely include Chatelain, if he was who he claimed to be. (How do I know that? Because I'm in Who's Who in Entertainment, or so I gather from the requests for updates they keep sending me. And I'm far less prominent than Chatelain would have been.) Additionally, if he really was NASA's director of communications -- which usually means their chief publicist and spokesperson -- then he would probably have had his name in the press over and over again. I must say that I'm a little alarmed at the helplessness of this discussion. "Chatelain says X, Oberg says Y, gosh, how can we decide who's right?" It's not hard to do some research. I doubt NASA would lie about who their past publicists had been. About Oberg's accuracy in general...I'm no fan of the big cheese skeptics, but their debunking tends to be accurate when they have easy targets. Oberg has written a book, UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries, most of which is devoted to shooting fish in a barrel -- or in other words to refuting claims that few UFO researchers ever took seriously. I wouldn't doubt what he says, especially when he's talking about things that anyone else could easily check (like Chatelain's history at NASA). It's when the skeptics confront strong UFU cases that they get unreliable. They're so committted to denying UFOs that they'll distort the facts (or conveniently not mention evidence against their view). And about the press...Gary got into a brief discussion of whether the press was more accurate now or in the past. >Sorry, I must comment that you are showing a certain naivete here. >Does anyone remember the Pentagon Papers, Watergate. >Hmmm. I'm not a history buff, and certainly not fully up to date on >American history, but weren't these stories broken by newspapers ? The Pentagon Papers were leaked to the press by Daniel Ellsberg, a national security operative in the government. The press didn't unearth them. Watergate was in effect leaked by the security guard at the Watergate complex, who noticed signs of the burglary in progress, and by the D.C. police, who arrested the burglars. The press then printed the story, which was big news because the burglars were so closely connected to Nixon. But the press didn't itself reveal the inner government workings detailed in the Pentagon Papers. Nor did it discover that Nixon was breaking the law, until his boys got caught in the act. In those days, in fact, reporters in Vietnam would listen to military briefings, laugh loudly at what they knew to be lies, and then write stories in which they appeared to take the lies seriously. I have a feeling that would not happen any more -- which is why the military so severely restricted press access during the Gulf War. Back in the early '60s, a New York Times reporter in Central America discovered that the US was about to invade Cuba, using an army of Cuban refugees being trained in camps whose existence was an open secret, at least to people in the area. When he learned about this, the managing editor of the Times, Clifton Daniel (who was married to Harry Truman's daughter) called JFK, who then was president, with an outrageous question. "Should we print this?" No way, answered Kennedy -- though after the invasion crashed and burned at the Bay of Pigs, he wondered whether he would have been better off if a TImes story had stopped it. I get the feeling that major newspapers wouldn't act this way any more, either. They got too badly burned first by Watergate, and second by the then-unprecedented press manipulations of the Reagan administration. They're much more likely now to assume there's dirt under the surface, and to go for it -- one big exception being anything concerned with UFOs...because there most journalists remain hardcore skeptics. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 NASA and Air Force Space Command Announce From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:53:44 -0400 Subject: NASA and Air Force Space Command Announce Brian Welch Headquarters, Washington, DC April 16, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1600) RELEASE: 97-68 NASA AND AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND ANNOUNCE COOPERATIVE EFFORTS NASA and the Air Force Space Command have agreed to work together in several areas of mutual interest in the hopes of saving both organizations costs and sharing in new technologies to benefit future spaceflight and spacecraft. "This agreement exemplifies NASA's commitment to finding ways to reduce cost and, where appropriate, share our assets with the Air Force for greater efficiencies in our respective missions," said NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin. Under the terms of the agreement signed by Goldin and Air Force Space Commander General Howell M. Estes, III, NASA and the Air Force will form partnership teams to study seven areas of potential cooperation. These areas include studying the cost feasibility of launching Defense Support Program satellites from the Space Shuttle in 1999; possible expanded use of the Shuttle for Air Force technology payloads; and consolidating plans that outline space transportation needs of NASA and the Air Force. NASA and the Air Force also will examine their respective infrastructures and common-use facilities; develop and coordinate an implementation plan to address orbiting space debris; and possible collaboration on the Clementine II project; and expand cooperation in space weather environment research and data sharing. The partnership teams are scheduled to provide an interim report on their findings to senior management of both organizations in mid-July of this year. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Astronomers Contribute 4,500 Hale-Bopp Images to From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:23:28 -0400 Subject: Astronomers Contribute 4,500 Hale-Bopp Images to Brian Dunbar Headquarters, Washington, D.C. April 15, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-0873) RELEASE: I97-4 ASTRONOMERS CONTRIBUTE 4,500 HALE-BOPP IMAGES TO NASA WEB Astronomers from around the world have submitted more than 4,500 images of Comet Hale-Bopp to NASA Web sites, where Internet users can see them and enjoy the celestial show. The Comet Hale-Bopp Home Page: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/comet/index.html at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, contains more than 3,200 images, including one obtained by a California astronomer the night after the comet was discovered in July 1995. The Near-Live Comet Watching System http://comet.hq.nasa.gov/ at NASA Headquarters, Washington, DC, contains more than 1,300 images. Astronomers from Australia, Asia, Europe and the Americas have submitted images, which have been captured by everything from professional observatory equipment to the backyard gear of an amateur astronomer. The archives include photographs of the comet over San Francisco; Dublin, Ireland; and Genoa, Italy. Tens of thousands of Internet users have made use of the Web sites, which have been receiving hits of up to 1.2 million per day. Note to photo editors: Most astronomers who have posted photos to this Web site have retained copyright to their images. Unless a photograph is explicitly stated to be in the public domain, editors should contact the photographer regarding rights to reproduction. - end -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re. Another 'piece' of Roswell From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:38:27 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:22:19 -0400 Subject: Re. Another 'piece' of Roswell Sean wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:21:05 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Another piece of Roswell >I was told that the reason that the military thought that they could get >away with saying that it was a weather balloon was because the wreckage >found in July was not a vast amount. Apparently, or so I am told, that >actual crash happened a month before and that a clean-up operation >missed some, and this is what was found on Mac Brazel's ranch. For what it's worth, this scenario fits what promoters of Santilli's crash story have said. The Roswell "crash" would, in this case, be a fragment of the downed saucer in Socorro (presumably a very light- weight fragment, or bundle of fragments), since it presumably managed to ride the winds from Socorro to Roswell only to be rediscovered. Does this make sense? **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:36:32 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:54:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >>From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:18:20 EDT >>Kodak, officially, has never verified anything. Individual employees of >>Kodak, without any official authority, have verified the pieces of film >>that they saw as possibly being from 1947, but NONE of those pieces >>contained anything to prove they were from the film in question. >Ok, lets pick some nits. >When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak >while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge >codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. >That's why he agreed to buy it. >Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak >Denmark stated that the film was definitely from 1947. >The problem, as I have been told by Kodak personnel, is in the >chart used to identify film. This shows the edge code, a square >and a triangle, as being solid for 1927 and 1947, and as being >drawn in outline for 1967. Kodak people, being presented with a >solid square and triangle, would naturally say that the film was >definitely 1947 (since no one has suggested it is as old as >1927) if they were unaware that this is simply a mistake in the >chart. >So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the >film was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak >had verified the film, this is what he was referring to. >Bob Here we go again, Bob. Was Kodak Denmark's dating of the film based on first-hand examination of the actual AA "film" showing images of the "alien" or "autopsy room," or based on extraneous film or Santilli's verbal or written description of the edge codes? As has been the pattern throughout your involvement with this caper, you seem to be bending over backwards to make the case that the "film" has been examined and authenticated by Kodak. Please state categorically for your fellow subscribers to this list whether Kodak Denmark ever examined relevant portions of the actual AA "film" (i.e., showing the "alien" or "autopsy room") or not. If the answer is no, please explain why you insist on presenting the false impression -- as you did above -- that Kodak Denmark has verified the age of the AA "film." Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert From: Rebecca Keith <XianneKei@AOL.COM> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:51:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:41:10 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert > I've just checked at the CNN site, no articles about norad or any alert > found.... There is a NORAD security precaution in effect. I'm not sure what that means but I didn't believe it when I first heard about the news. I went to the news server and found these articles. .c The Associated Press By ROBERT BURNS CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN AIR STATION, Colo. (AP) - Commanders at the North American Aerospace Defense Command maintained tighter security today but said they may have overestimated a threat of attack against the missile-tracking center. Public tours of the manmade cavern deep inside Cheyenne Mountain - the nerve center of U.S. and Canadian air defense and space surveillance - were suspended Wednesday and additional security barriers were installed outside the facility. The Cheyenne Mountain commander, U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Jeff Grime, said in an interview inside the complex that an intelligence warning had prompted him to tighten security even though the threat was not immediate or clear cut. ``You've got to take prudent actions,'' even if you err on the side of caution, he said after ordering the heightened security, which included starting a 24-hour security watch at a secondary entrance to the mountain complex that normally is monitored only by video cameras and other electronic sensors. ``We had specific information that we're still watching,'' Grime said. He would not describe the information more precisely, but said it did not indicate that any of the several other major military sites in the area were threatened. ``It's totally focused at us here,'' he said. Inside the complex on Wednesday a reporter saw no outward signs of concern about an attack. The official ``threat condition'' that tells Cheyenne Mountain workers the degree of security threat was posted as ``normal.'' Outside the main entrance, which looks down on nearby Colorado Springs, an extra pop-up steel barrier to stop intruding vehicles was installed, and three concrete barriers were placed in a zigzag pattern at a security check point. Security police also started checking the identification cards of all workers entering the complex instead of relying on the normal random checks. By late Wednesday afternoon, officials had determined that the information about the security threat was less credible than initially believed. In an interview at nearby Peterson Air Force Base, Vice Admiral Lyle Bien said the information, while still not completely discounted, had come third-hand. It had indicated a ``potential for some kind of attack'' on Cheyenne Mountain, one of the most secure facilities in America, he told the AP. ``It doesn't look like the source was terribly credible,'' he said after consulting with Grime at U.S. Space Command headquarters, where Bien is vice commander. Bien said he did not know who had made the threat. He said an intermediary who had relayed the threat was initially judged to be highly credible. Upon further inquiry, the source's credibility was questioned, he said. Nonetheless, the extra security will be kept in place for now as a precaution, he said. NORAD spokesman Army Maj. Steve Boylan said the heightened security had nothing to do with the disappearance two weeks ago of an A-10 Air Force jet still missing nearby apparently in the Colorado Rockies. Asked about a possible connection with Saturday's second anniversary of the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, Boylan said the intelligence information received ``did not specify any particular association with any event,'' including the bombing anniversary. The U.S.-Canadian NORAD monitors aircraft over North America, tracks missile launches around the world, identifies and watches manmade objects in space and collects intelligence information from U.S. military satellites. The Cheyenne Mountain complex, which was built in the early 1960s to withstand a direct hit from a nuclear weapon, employees 1,100 U.S. and Canadian military and civilian personnel. Its main entrance is shielded by two 25-ton blast doors and is guarded by 80 members of the 721st Security Police squadron. AP-NY-04-17-97 0342EDT === DENVER (Reuter) - The U.S. military has tightened security at the Colorado headquarters of its North American Aerospace Defense Command and canceled public tours of the facility, the Defense Department said Wednesday. The decision came just days before the second anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. But a spokeswoman for NORAD and its companion U.S. Space Command in Colorado would not say why the precautions -- which also included putting up some additional barricades -- have been carried out Tuesday. A Pentagon official in Washington would say only that ''information of possible security concerns'' had been received and resulted in the crackdown at Cheyenne Mountain headquarters of NORAD, already considered one of the nation's most secure military posts. The NORAD command, established during the Cold War to keep radar watch for possible Soviet nuclear missile or bomber attack on the United States and Canada, has its headquarters deep inside the mountain in Colorado. ``The Air Force has heightened security at the Cheyenne Mountain Air Station after receiving information of possible security concerns,'' Air Force Lt. Col. Quennie Byars, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said in response to questions. ``Although one of the most secure installations in the nation, due to this information additional security measures are deemed prudent,'' Byars said. Other defense officials, who asked not to be identified, suggested the security threat might not be part of any larger threat against U.S. military bases. They refused to be more specific. In Colorado, NORAD spokeswoman Franki Webster declined to say whether the security concerns were specifically related to the April 19 anniversaries of the Oklahoma City bombing, which killed 168 people, and the 1993 siege at Waco, Texas, where some 80 members of the Branch Davidian cult died in a standoff with federal officials. The Oklahoma City bombing trial of Timothy McVeigh was under way in Denver where security was extremely high. Before the trial began March 31, concrete barricades were erected around the complex that houses the Denver federal courthouse and the adjacent federal office building. ``Additional security measures are being considered and may be implemented as the situation requires,'' Byars said. ``We regret any inconvenience the additional security measures may cause the public and those who work at Chenenne Mountain.'' Security was always very high at NORAD. People wishing to visit must relinquish cameras, beepers and cellular telephones and must make arrangements as much as six months ahead of time. The Pentagon said the much sought-after tours of the non-restricted areas of the mountain facility would be rescheduled for a later date. 18:59 04-16-97 === Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 14:01:47 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:15:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 16 Apr 97 23:02:23 EDT >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >I don't think it was known publically where Ray first saw the film. Hi Terry, Glad you're here now. Actually, maybe the only public who knows these details are the public who have attended my presentations at UFO conferences. ( which are available on video at reasonable prices from the conference promoters. I get NO royalties on them.) Ray saw the film at Jack's home, which is somewhere in the Orlando area. The only Jack Barnett in the Orlando phone book had his telephone changed to an unpublished number in 1995, just about the time the ship first hit the sand. I pointed this out way back in '95, but maybe no one was listening. Also, when Gary Shoefield went to Fl to meet Jack but couldn't, Gary says it is because he was in an Orlando hospital. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 NORAD information From: Ufovicki@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:29:38 -0400 Subject: NORAD information MORNING NEWS: UFO Magazine spoke with NORAD 's Chief of Media regarding the tightened security measures now in place at the Cheyenne Mountain facility. The action had nothing to do with a satellite data or UFOs, NORAD says, but with information of a sensitive nature that originated with the FBI. UFO Magazine hopes to have more information on this available on the website: http://www.ufomagazine.com/default.CFM [Vicki Cooper Ecker]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: 'Expert' comment From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 14:01:45 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:16:34 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:24:26 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment >Yes, one has to wonder about those poor pathologists >tripping-over and stepping-on each others' air and communication >lines. Vince and the Duke, Please take note that the cameraman makes no mention of hoses, just air feed from the feet. There are some occasions when the floor is in view in the film, and no hoses are seen. Someone just pointed out to me that on the Hazmat web site you can see similar suits in which an air filtration device is strapped to the leg. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: NASA and Air Force Space Command From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:30:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:18:40 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA and Air Force Space Command >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:53:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov >Subject: NASA and Air Force Space Command Announce Cooperative Efforts >Sender: owner-press-release@spinoza.hq.nasa.gov >To: undisclosed-recipients:; >Brian Welch >Headquarters, Washington, DC April 16, 1997 >(Phone: 202/358-1600) >RELEASE: 97-68 >NASA AND AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND ANNOUNCE COOPERATIVE EFFORTS > NASA and the Air Force Space Command have agreed >to work together in several areas of mutual interest >in the hopes of saving both organizations costs and >sharing in new technologies to benefit future >spaceflight and spacecraft. Hi All, Here it is kiddies! The marriage between NASA and the Military is now official and out in the open. The once civilian agency has been gradually shifted over the years because it began to do more and more work with/for the military. Considering all the recent UFO activity, I'm not at all surprised that the military has declared it's "partnership" with NASA. Woe to us all. John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html ======================================= Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | nasanews |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 15:10:26 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:31:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:07:47 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing Rebecca, I see you are back to your old self after a laid back time in Arkansas. >WAIT A MINUTE! The "internal flight" was to Florida? You know that for >sure? Or are you guessing? Or has Ray told you that? OR have I missed >this new piece of the puzzle? I've mentioned this in my presentations several times. Ray says Florida, as does Gary Shoefield. >I seem to remember something about this. But I also remember someone >saying >that Ray didn't know about film. It has been claimed he didn't know >about >edge codes. Is he a fast learner? How did he know to call about the edge >codes? Sorry, I should know to be more precise when you are looking over my shoulder. Ray says he called Kodak and asked how he could tell the date of the film. They told him about edge codes, and he looked at them while he was on the phone. I don't think he knew anything about edge codes prior to this. >No, you have verification that the strip of film that Tommy Jensen at >KODAK >in Denmark saw was from '47. So he verified some countdown footage. >Please >note, I did not call it leader because I know that is a nit you like to >pick. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. None of this matters. I was just trying to make the point that Ray thought he had verification of the date when he made those statements. We know that he did not, but he had no way of knowing it at the time. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 15:10:20 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:32:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:36:32 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >Please state categorically for your fellow subscribers to this >list whether Kodak Denmark ever examined relevant portions of the >actual AA "film" (i.e., showing the "alien" or "autopsy room") or >not. >If the answer is no, please explain why you insist on presenting >the false impression -- as you did above -- that Kodak Denmark >has verified the age of the AA "film." I do not know which film Triple Entertainment showed to the people at Kodak Denmark. It really doesn't matter, since Kodak Denmark's letter verifying that the film is from 1947 was based on incorrect information, as I stated in my last message. I don't think that I gave the "false impression" tht Kodak Denmark had verified the age of the film. I said that they provided written verification, but that it was wrong. At the time ray got this he did not know it was incorrect, and he quoted it as proof of the film's age. I've never said that Ray has not made mistakes in his handling of all this, but I do not think it is fair to accuse him of things he did not do. And, for myself, I am the one who discovered on my own about Kodak's mistake and passed this on to Ray. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Arizona sightings From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:15:43 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:45:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings At 12:08 17-04-97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:04:27 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Arizona sightings > >Well, I got permission from Tom to use some of >his stuff so I've made a single frame capture >from his video of the black helicopters that >were buzzing his house as he attempted to >videotape a UFO. > >I want this jpeg to be seen and checked out by >others. Hi John, I received your JPEG as did everyone else on the list, but can you or somebody tell me me what kind of software I need to view it. Can I feed it into Internet Explorer 3.0 for example from my hard disk? *********************************** Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands ***********************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Cleefs@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:42:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien In a message dated 97-04-17 13:59:35 EDT, you write: > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:41:48 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien >From: Cleefs@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 >I was watching a tv show on a disease that >makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past >the age of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however >being men of medical background, some of you, I am sure you >know which one I mean. There was this 15 year old girl on >the show that looked remarkably like the depictions of >aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet tall, bald, head large, big >bulging eyes. >The disease concerned is called "progeria". The following > from http://chs-web.neb.net/people/students/sdweber/progeria/ > toc.html: >"Progeria was discovered in 1886 by Jonathan Hutchinson. >It was not officialy named until 1904 when Hastings Gilford >gave it the name Progeria. The disease is also commonly called >Hutchinson-Gilford syndrome,after these two researchers." >"If a person is found to have Progeria, there is nothing that >can be done. There is not a known treatment for the disease. >The person could live a fairly normal lifestyle for about 20 >years of their lives. The only thing that should hinder an >affected person is the physical appearance of him or her. This >person will not have to worry too much about this though, since > he or she will be dead by the time he or she turns 30. " >There was a local case that I remember clearly (little chap >called Hansie Geringer), and I must admit that there are >certain aspects of the disease that reminds one of the basic >characteristics of a grey. >HOWEVER: To say this type of poor person was used in the >Area 51 interrogation footage would imply that somebody is >EXTREMELY sick!!! (in the head I mean). >Jakes Thank you for this enlightening information. My thought is this. If a person wants to leave something behind for their family, then a hoaxer's offer of money would certainly be attractive to that person with Progeria. Plus a chance to be in a film, I am sure would be enticing. Afterall, how many hoaxers do you think are not sick in the head? Hoaxers and practical jokers, never look into the effects of their funny ideas. The little girl I saw was in some place like Brazil, and she was the eldest of 9 kids. I am sure to someone in her situation, money would be very attractive. Thanks again Jake. Lee
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:19:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:57:02 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert Clarification from NUFORC which released the first report: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:11:23 -0600 From: webmaster@ufocenter.com To: director@ufocenter.com Subject: Satellite Photo Anomaly - Probable Explanation Message-ID: <861307616.26786@dejanews.com> We have received some technical information that explains how an anomaly such as this can appear in both the visible and infrared images. At this point we believe that the likely explanation is a data drop caused by missing header or trailer information in multiple data blocks on a single scan line from the Imager instrument. We will post more details soon. webmaster@ufocenter.com ________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Another 'piece' of Roswell From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Apr 97 15:10:22 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:33:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Another 'piece' of Roswell >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:38:27 -0500 (CDT) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Re. Another 'piece' of Roswell >For what it's worth, this scenario fits what promoters of Santilli's >crash story have said. The Roswell "crash" would, in this case, be >a fragment of the downed saucer in Socorro (presumably a very light- >weight fragment, or bundle of fragments), since it presumably managed >to ride the winds from Socorro to Roswell only to be rediscovered. >Does this make sense? No, it makes no sense to me. All indications are that whatever it was that came down at Socorro came in from the NW. Unless it split up very high up, this just doesn't point toward part of it coming down near Roswell. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Arizona sightings From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:58:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings John Velez wrote ... > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:08:01 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings [snip] > If the black helicopters are real, what else are > the guys I fondly refer to as, 'conspiracy nuts' > right about?! Sure as hell giving me cause to > give some of that material a re-think. > I want this jpeg to be seen and checked out by > others. If you can prove it's a 'fake' then by > all means go for it. If not, we really need to > talk about it and circulate this information as > far and wide as we can. We need (a lot of people) > in on this. This, is as 'serious' as it gets folks. > We're not living in the country we think we are. > There is *someone* out there with the power to > put crap like this over, without reporting to the > people through congress. These dangerous clowns > represent/work for US! I say put 'em behind bars > or on unemployment ASAP. Just one citizens > opinion. Yes, someone out there may very well have the power to do this. I think you should read the following paper by Dr. Stephen Greer, maybe twice ... http://www.cseti.org/unknow.htm -Brian C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 16:40:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:59:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Goodbye AUFORA News Update & David Watanabe? >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Expert' comment >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 20:04:12 -0600 >From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Oh no. This was misinterpreted. I'm not abandoning work with AUFORA. AUFORA News Update will STILL CONTINUE! I'm just saying I'm going to have to work to reduce my email load, and thus unsubscribe from this wonderful list. AUFORA will remain the same. We're even planning some major changes to our website within the next few months to offer a more potent experience for our visitors! Dave Watanabe http://www.aufora.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:16:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:01:58 -0400 Subject: Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:24:00 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD For those of you interested in the BTs, I would like to make the following comments about the low-flying BT that overflew Phoenix on the night of March 13th. The BT was seen flying low and slower than a private plane soundlessly. It was huge. Witnesses describe its size as 3 or 4 times the size of a jumbo jet. It was also seen moving rapidly over Meas w/o lights on. By the time it passed over Chandler, it moved slowly with lights on and deployed one of the lights (orbs) into the environment to the west. By the time it got to Gilbert, it broke into two segments which flew off separately and ascended upward. I do not think the B-2 could match its performance or anything that I know of that is a product of stealth engineering. There is a possibility it could be a Deep Black aircraft engineered under super-secret security, a so-called unacknowledged special access program, but then it could have come from some other world in our universe or some neighboring universe across a short-wide gulf of an invisible world. Nevertheless, it would be extremely interesting to study the technology of such a craft. There was some visible evidence of a "distortion" field or waves around the craft between the observers and the running(?) lights. This might indicate that the craft was surrounded by a field (magneto-electro-gravitic?) that like Cramp and Hill indicate entrains the surrounding air. These craft are definitely NOT jet-propelled. Food for thought. Bill Hamilton AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Who is 'Branton'? From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 09:45:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:05:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Who is 'Branton'? >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:07:40 +0100 >From: Mark Pilkington <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: branton >Who is the prolific and clearly highly delusional "Branton", whose stuff >seems to appear on various UFO sites and links the Illuminati and the >greys to every conspiracy ever cooked up. "Branton" is Bruce Alan Walton, a young man who lives in Utah, who has made a study of the inner earth for years and repeats every story and legend that he hears of this, has been influenced by fundamentalists Christians, and believes himself to be at war with a reptilian race who live in the bowels of the earth. He runs his own mail group called eaglenet. I'll bet Branton has cooked up a couple of conspiracies of his own. Don't get so serious. There are many like him out there in the great world of the web. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan Search for other documents from or mentioning: bhamilto | markp |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Arizona sightings From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 08:13:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:07:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:33:05 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Arizona sightings Thank you, John for bringing attention to these sightings. I have decided to start shifting the gears on how we investigate sightings. Most field investigators wait for their phone to ring bringing in some new report they can check out. I have seen some of these investigators, responding to critical attacks on their methodology even go out of their way to come up with a conventional explanation, sometimes even prior to making the investigation! Some of us have investigated strange activity and then when we are reporting it are "jumped" out for outlandish beliefs. We learn as we go. Now we are learning that we need to have a team that actively deploys to "hot" areas or good observation points with viewing and recording equipment to skywatch. It may even be prudent to take it beyond that and attempt to actively signal and watch. We have done that on a very intermittent and small-scale basis before, but now is the time to escalate our efforts. If some of us our correct, that we can learn something beyond proving the existence of alien spacecraft, of some practical application of this study to our daily lives on earth, that we can expand our philosophical, scientific, and technical horizons beyond current limits and awaken an awareness of individuals beyond the next item of entertainment on television, then I would say that investing in such effort would have profitable returns. Thank you, Bill Hamilton AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Seeing is not believing From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:07:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:08:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing Regarding... >Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing Bob suggested: >Ok, lets pick some nits. >When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak while >he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge codes, and >was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. That's why he agreed >to buy it. Bob, You may recall the following point, but most subscribers are unlikely to be aware of it. At the Q & A session during the BUFORA conference on 19 August 1995, Ray was asked, "Did you ring Kodak at the time to verify this film?". He answered, "Well, no, not to verify it, but to ask them what I need to look for and I also called Philip Mantle and I said to Philip at the time, can you please tell me what Roswell is all about and my agreement with Philip at that time was that he would educate me on the subject and point us in the right direction". He didn't call Philip, as such, at all. At the time of the BUFORA conference, Ray was still claiming that the Cleveland visit, when the film was allegedly offered, had taken place in the summer of 1993 and shortly before he first met Philip. It's now of course known and acknowledged that the Cleveland trip actually took place a year earlier, in July of 1992. It was during the summer of 1993, after Carl Nagaitis, Philip and Ray had already discussed some UFO related video projects, that Ray announced he had some film connected with the Roswell case. So, not only was the claim to have phoned, "Philip at the time", untrue, Ray didn't in fact have any urgency to clarify what this unknown Roswell film might relate to and whether it was likely to be genuine. Even a full year after supposedly having phoned Kodak, he was discussing other UFO related video projects with no apparent interest in finding out what this film he had not only "agreed to buy", but "paid a deposit on", was all about. As you're also likely to know, in discussions with Ray, I detailed this and asked if he could explain the anomaly, but there was no explanation offered. Have either Michael, Philip or yourself asked Ray if he might explain this seemingly significant anomaly? Is this perhaps a similar situation to the bogus "Rank in London processed the film" claim, the "IRT" having apparently some reluctance to trouble Ray with, it seems, any of the evidence indicating that the video might be, perish the thought, a somewhat more recent production than 1947? No-one's compelled to, but all that evidence won't just "go away" and failing to address it does tend to make the IRT's case look more of a promotion than an investigation. As an aside, in one of the earliest interviews with Ray, published in the May-June 1995 issue of the French magazine "Phenomena", he claimed, "This particular cameraman is an ordinary person, he is now in his early eighties. He's been in the same house for the last 50 years". If he's lived _in Florida_ for 50 years, I'm not sure how we equate that with Ray's subsequent claim that the Elvis Presley "Cleveland" film he bought from the same cameraman, in Cleveland, had been, "shot by a local freelance cameraman". >Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak Denmark >stated that the film was definitely from 1947. This being the sample they had seen, not "the film". As Rebecca points out, the sample was meaningless, with no images from the video. >The problem, as I have been told by Kodak personnel, is in the chart >used to identify film... We know what apparently happened in this specific incident. In December, 1995, I posted the following to the CompuServe MUFON forum: Regarding the recent misunderstandings concerning Kodak's dating of the alleged Roswell film, with the permission of Quest International and Mr Peter Milson of Kodak, I have transcribed some of the relevant conversations which took place.: Peter Milson: Just to let you know what happened yesterday...basically my colleagues in Los Angeles, Hollywood, basically said the same as we did. My colleague in Denmark, who's not perhaps as much experienced and it isn't such a big market place, had looked at the film, looked at the first bit of the chart and said "1947". Now, what I've done this morning is , I've talked to my Danish colleague and I said, "the edge code you looked at", he said, "yeah", I said, "what did you say?". (He said) "Well, it's '47". I said, "yeah, but it also could be '27 and '67". "Ah...", he said, "didn't realise that", 'cause he's fairly inexperienced. So I said to him, "OK, go back to the distributor and say you've got more information and it could be '27, '47 and '67." Then we have a consistent line and we're all saying the same thing. I mean, you know, if it is '47 and it's genuine...hey...you know, whatever... I'm looking forward to seeing aliens (laughs). Tony Dodd: So are we! (laughs) [...] Tony Dodd: Has he given you any reason why he hasn't let you see the original? Peter Milson: No, and I'm still waiting for them to do that, you know, we've said to them a number of times, delighted to look at it, but nothing has come back. [End] The film sent to Kodak in Copenhagen was forwarded by Tripple Entertainment, based in Denmark. As far as I know they are in the entertainments industry and were negotiating a business deal at that time with Ray's company, "The Merlin Group". [END] It's somewhat academic, but that's the story. >So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the film >was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak had verified >the film, this is what he was referring to. In July of 1995, Ray acknowledged that, "Mr Milson today also stated that his office in Denmark should have included 1927 and 1967, that being the case it's their error not mine". True, but as recently as a couple of months ago... "The "X Factor" asked music and film producer Santilli if the autopsy film had been authenticated". "Yes. Pieces of the film were sent to Kodak for analysis. They've confirmed that it dates from 1947". ...he still didn't realise these claims were perhaps misleading? Ray is of course entitled to make any claims he wants, it's just an exercise in pointing out how many of them are "unreliable". "and I said to Philip at the time...", being a prime example. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: billjaco@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:35:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:10:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien > Date: 17 Apr 97 08:39:20 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien (snip) > Doctors who have looked at the film for me have all said that > attempting to use progeria as an explanation is ridiculous. > Bob Bob (others welcome to reply), Back to the autopsy film for a second... I am sure I have not seen nor read more than 10% of what has been discussed but can you tell me whether or not an Ichthyologist, or other of the many Zoology specialists, have had the opportunity to analyze the organs removed? I remember hearing a couple of human medical specialists remark that they did not recognize any of the organs but I wonder if that would hold true from a specialist in another branch of biology. Bill Jacobs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:35:13 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:11:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 16 Apr 97 23:02:23 EDT >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >>Date: 16 Apr 97 10:01:14 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >Er, Bob, >>When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak >>while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge >>codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. >I don't think it was known publically where Ray first saw the film. >Tell us more. <G> >Terry Hi Terry, Looks like still another version being offered-up on the origin of the Santilli alien autopsy "film." I wonder what happened to the Ohio/Elvis scenario? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Looking for information. From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:11:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:12:15 -0400 Subject: Looking for information. From: Don Ledger dledger@istar.ca Hello Errol and fellow listers, I have a small request. Several weeks ago, or perhaps longer, someone posted information here regarding the benefits that have been forthcoming to the small town of Roswell, New Mexico (some of you may have heard of it) because of the so called "Roswell Incident". There was mention of the amount of tourists passing through the area and the amount of money infused into the area as a result. If anyone remembers this report or was the author of same would they please contact me at my email address. Thanks and regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: UFOs brought to earth with a bump From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:14:42 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 >Subject: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >Organization: Welt am Draht >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >Hello! >Here's something we retrieved for you: >---------------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- >Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 [snip] >"We cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's and we are not harbouring >remains of UFO's" department spokesman Ken Bacon said. Typical example of a non-statement! How does one substantiate something that is UNIDENTIFIED...as in unidentified flying object. >Convinced there was no extra-terrestrial threat,... Hah! So, UFOs are extraterrestrial? Something that is UNIDENTIFIED is extraterrestrial? >...the Pentagon has long >since stopped recording of UFO sightings, Mr Bacon said. Sorry it doesn't wash. Try telling that to any of the installations that track objects circling the earth or monitor the skies for more...ahem...terrestrial intruders. They might have another name for them now (UFO is a military designation) but you can be damn sure that if something sails into American airspace that hasn't identified itself, more than the air forces eggs will be scrambled! Y'know I wonder if I could fly a plane over Area 51 without identifying myself. It would be like being invisible! >But enormous >public interest in the existence of intelligent extra-terrestrial life has >been fuelled by television programmes such as "The X Files" and hundreds of >Internet sites addressing the topic. ...and scientists like Sagan, Drake, and Arthur C. Clarke and many others too numerous to mention, who have said that they are there all right (ET's), yessereee, butcha can't get here from there. However, as Mr. Clarke stated on one of his TV shows,if the "Bahgdad battery" really was a battery, and our technology had continued to progress at a steady rate from when they were made--we would now be visiting our celestial neighbors. Go figure! >Of 12,618 reported UFO sightings investigated by the US Air Force between >1947 and 1969, none "represented technological developments or principles >beyond the range of our scientific knowledge," Mr Bacon said. >No UFO reported, investigated or evaluated posed a threat to America and >there was no evidence that the UFO's were extra-terrestrial vehicles, he >added. You mean like the ones that hovered over the missile silos back in '75? >Most sightings of supposed UFO's could be explained either by weather >conditions, such as lightning or unusual cloud formations, or by aircraft >movements, he said. ..speaking of movements... Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:16:23 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:12:12 +0200 >Subject: Fwd: Satellite Images Of UFO >Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" April 17 at 05.15 CET: >17. April 1997 06.11.05 >alt.alien.visitors Item >From: webmaster@ufocenter.com,usenet >Subject: Anomalous object in satellite photos >To: alt.alien.visitors >Webmaster /Politiken Internet,usenet >What appears to be a large anomalous object was captured on both visible >and infrared images by the GOES-9 satellite today at 8:30 am Pacific >Time. >It was also reported on CNN today that NORAD has entered a heightened >state of alert. Just in case you haven't made the connection yet...,the following is from a post from Rebecca Keith which included an AP wire: "Asked about a possible connection with Saturday's second anniversary of the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, Boylan said the intelligence information received ``did not specify any particular association with any event,'' including the bombing anniversary." ...and from Reuters: "The decision came just days before the second anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. But a spokeswoman for NORAD and its companion U.S. Space Command in Colorado would not say why the precautions -- which also included putting up some additional barricades -- have been carried out Tuesday." This is most likely the reason for the alert as many institutions throughout the U.S. took extra safety precautions for the "bombing anniversary." //Help stamp out rumours before they get started.\\ Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Comet Origins .. Hoagland/Van Flandern theory From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:11:26 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:57:37 -0400 Subject: Comet Origins .. Hoagland/Van Flandern theory Comet Origins .. Hoagland/Van Flandern theory. Check it out at http://www.enterprisemission.com/comets.html Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 'UFO Folklore' PC Computing Magazine 5 Star Site From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:04:30 -0400 Subject: 'UFO Folklore' PC Computing Magazine 5 Star Site From: JustFolk <geibdan@qtm.net> PC Computing Magazine (The one printed on paper(remember paper ?)) Has reviewed UFO Folklore at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html and deemed it worthy of a 5 star close encounter of the third kind rating!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Viewing attached picture files From: bigdogs <bigdogs@jetlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:33:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:54:10 -0400 Subject: Viewing attached picture files At 11:45 PM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:15:43 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings <snip> >I received your JPEG as did everyone else on the list, but can you or >somebody tell me me what kind of software I need to view it. Can I feed it >into Internet Explorer 3.0 for example from my hard disk? >*********************************** >Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes >Henny van der Pluijm >hvdp@worldonline.nl >Leiden, The Netherlands >*********************************** Hi, I use VuePro 32, version 5.0 to vue gifs and jpegs and a very happy with it. It also plays sound files, avi's and mov's too. VUEPRINT TECH SUPPORT- http://www.hamrick.com/ VUEPRINT PRO 5.0 VuePrint 5.0e is now available for downloading. If you previously paid $40.00 to register VuePrint, then this is a free upgrade. You can download VuePrint 5.0e from: http://www.hamrick.com/upg.html You can also find the Release Notes for version 5.0e at this location. It contains a list of new features, bugs that have been fixed, undocumented .ini file parameters, and information about configuring VuePrint for new file formats (such as Kodak's Photo-CD/.PCD images). http://www.hamrick.com/rep.html http://www.hamrick.com/ A boxed version of VuePrint is now being nationally distributed by a partner company, ImageDisk, as PhotoVue Plus. It is exactly the same program as VuePrint 5.0, but only costs $26.95. Upgrades to future releases of PhotoVue Plus cost $10.00, while free upgrades are included with a $40.00 VuePrint registration. If you purchase PhotoVue Plus from ImageDisk, you will receive a diskette, a printed User's Guide, and a certificate for a free image scan. You can purchase PhotoVue Plus by calling ImageDisk at 1-800-495-7226. This makes a nice Christmas gift - check it out at www.imagedisk.com. Pat [Dennison] ******************************************* * Welcome 2 bigdogs' World * * http://www.jetlink.net/~bigdogs/ * ************************************************* * California Guys Ltd. Photography Gallery * * http://www.silcom.com/~bigguys/index.html * *********************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The Varginha 'Saga' From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 03:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:51:50 -0400 Subject: Re: The Varginha 'Saga' From:UFOMiami@aol.com THE END OF THE LINE INTRODUCTION The general reader is not prepared to understand that advanced degrees and letters after a name do not guarantee an exceptional level of wisdom, and that often enough active scholars lack two traits that are paramount in scientific debate: time to read carefully, and the ability to set aside their distorting preconceptions. As a result, the debates are dominated by mischaracterizations as if we were not able to argue about substance and reality, but instead prefer misunderstanding as the subject for invective The focus shifts from the significant issues to irrelevant secondary considerations, and as the participants move away from the initial incident the picture becomes distorted and confusing; but very few of us pause to think who the winners are in this situation, and that perhaps we are being manipulated by the powers that be. It is true that investigators in ufology are extremely busy individuals, as in many cases their research is added to a regular 40-hour week required to make a living. But this is not an excuse to glance over what their opponents have replied, or worse, as often happens in other scientific fields, show willingness to argue without having read it at all. It is sometimes hard to cast preconceptions aside when they are based on ethnic or nationalistic considerations, but intellectual integrity requires the true scholar to humbly keep an open mind at all times, and allow the new facts to speak to him, even if the knowledge jeopardizes his pet theories. Science is not the patrimony of a certain country or group, but universal in scope and its objective is the advance of humankind. In reply to our previous piece posted on INTERNET we have received from Mr. A. J. Gevaerd a new lengthy essay dated 6 April 1997. It is well written and unlike other amusing obscene letters originating from investigator Vitorio Pacaccini, the language used is civil and acceptable. However, the answer is NOT SATISFACTORY. Rather than to reply to his piece point-by-point (approach that not only would be repetitious but has also failed so far), we will attempt a new tack based on the beliefs mentioned above. But you must keep in mind that Americans are distinguished by a sardonic, wonderful insistence on the right to dissent, to object, and to raise hell when an attempt to intimidation is suspected. We have written this letter in an attempt to close the gap that apparently separate us, and in the view that ufology does not recognize national frontiers. But the gap will not be closed unless you also make an effort. We are not your enemy, but your allies, and are interested only in discovering the truth, based on solid evidence, not in hearsay, unfounded rumors and anecdotal narratives. How long do you think it will take those military witnesses that you have in videotape to recant their stories when the government starts to apply the pressure? (As noted on the cover of UFO Magazine No. 17, this has already occurred). We are not pro-Benitez, nor anti-Brazilian. Is that so hard for you to understand? Parenthetically, as a result of Vitorio's venomous attacks, we have received innumerable letters of support, and have realized that there are in Brazil many serious researchers having the same objectives than ours.... THE NEGATIVE SIDE (1) the general tone of your letter is patronizing, as evidenced by the repetition of the word "doctor", and by your reaction to the use of the word "saga" to describe what is going on. This was not utilized in a derogatory sense, but to enhance the role of the Brazilian investigators who not only are carrying a dialectic fight against nosy foreign researchers, but are also involved in a more dangerous game when trying to penetrate the censorship imposed by their own government. (2) The emphasis seems to be that only the Brazilian investigators are in possession of all the facts, and hence only them are qualified to issue an opinion on the validity of the case. This strikes as a very nationalistic posture but at the same time is revealing: the information exists, but has not been released. The question is then, WHY NOT? Certainly, not because we didn't ask for it, not once, but many times. Specifically, we had asked about marks on the ground when the investigators first visited the site in January or February, 1996, and only just now we got your reply: NO, WE NEVER MEASURED, PHOTOGRAPHED, SKETCHED ANY GROUND MARKS BECAUSE THERE WERE NOTHING THERE. Two conclusions follow this statement: (I) no UFO landed there (ii) Benitez documented something else This is exactly what we have been trying to tell you for months. (3) In your present letter, Mr. Gevaerd, as in your previous one, you make a certain number of false assumptions, but for the sake of brevity we will mention only a few: (a) that on November 12, 1996, Benitez went to Varginha "for unknown purposes, secretly", adding: "he preferred to GO to the city anonymously, totally in silence" Well, of course, we only have Benitez version, but when we talked with him our impression was that it was an impromptu trip, and that he didn't even know who his guides were. But now you come forward and tell us that: Mr. Anibal Albuquerque is a retired colonel from the same military Army installation from where the soldiers captured the ET", and that Tadeu Pinto Mendes is no more than a dilettante, an ignorant but enthusiastic youngster. This was not even hinted at in your first letter, and we found no reference to this matter in No.17 of UFO. The question is now: WHY DID THE BRAZILIAN INVESTIGATORS DECIDED TO WITHHOLD THE INFORMATION? Perhaps in fear of official retribution?. I am sure that you realize how this changed our perspective of the case, as it opens other options like the possibility that Benitez was taken to a site that had been doctored specifically for him. In short, he could have been setup. Since you are there, this is a question for you to answer. As a starting point to collaborate, why don't you please send us the postal addresses of the retired colonel Albuquerque and Pinto Mendes, which we have been unable to obtain? (b) "unlike you both, I am a very busy man who doesn't have time to spare in nonsense". What makes you think that we live in luxury, and spend our time in goading Brazilian investigators? And since when the pursuing of truth is nonsense? In the same paragraph, your advice us not to risk our reputation by defending biased opinions and wrong, inaccurate information you get from INTERNET. Really, my dear Gevaerd, you don't read well. For the umpteen time, our sources are Brazilian. Neither of us have done what you --without blinking an eye-- accuse us of doing. We were puzzled, and we only submitted questions, but when the answers were not forthcoming, we started to realize that Varginha was not what it seemed. And as you incompletely quoted Dr. Hynek'. "What you see is not what you get ", but the purpose of an ufologist is to get what you don't see. (c) In several places you use the world extraterrestrial, when referring to the creatures captured in the Varginha area. This is NOT based an any evidence available to you or to your Brazilian colleagues, and all you are doing is providing ammunition for the skeptics, whose main contention is that "les OVNIs n'existent pas". Usage of such terminology doesn't help the cause of ufology as a scientific discipline. (d) And finally you gratuitously and offensively accuse us of "having been paid by Benitez to defend his weak and ridiculous findings". If you had been more careful in reading what we wrote you would be aware that we never supported the Spanish writer, and that if a misunderstanding occurred it was due to the reluctance of some Brazilian parties to provide some basic information. We think you owe us an apology for this paragraph. THE POSITIVE SlDE In addition to adding the possibility that Benitez was duped, your letter provides valuable information about the crashing of "an strange aircraft" (your words) in the area. You indicate that you have a witness, a radar operator, and that neither him nor anybody else ever detected it coming up later. This opens also a Pandora box, and we have asked in vain about the details of such crash, since obviously if you didn't find any debris or ground marks, it was because somebody cleaned up the site. And who could have done so? We both know the answer. It seems that there is also some question about the date, as we have seen Jan. 12 listed somewhere. Your advice to us was that we should ask the right parties, and you offered to mail us the pertinent issues of the UFO Magazine.(we only have No. 17, March 1997) We are happy to accept your offer, as the material would be valuable and much appreciated. Here is a "safe" mailing address: MIAMI UFO CENTER P.O. Box 960771 Miami, FL. 33296, USA As you certainly must know, Dr. Sanchez-Ocejo interest extends to the so improperly call "chupacabras", so we would be thankful for information about this topic. Our interest on Varginha started that way, and now that you have disposed of Benitez alleged evidence, he is out of picture for us, and as the UFO connection have disappeared, all seems to point out in the "chupacabras" direction. Before you jump again to the wrong assumptions and question our sources, we want to point out the main ones: (i) UFO MAGAZINE No. 17, and (ii) a lengthy videotape edited by John Carpenter, in which you appear personally, although the main presentation is by a very energetic Pacaccini. We have not seen there any evidence of extraterrestrial provenance. On the other hand, the descriptions of the captured animals are vivid, and the similarities with the so called "chupacabras" are remarkable. Sincerely yours, Dr. Willy Smith Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo UNICAT Project Miami UFO Center April 17, 1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Progeria - Premature Aging Disease From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:01:00 +1200 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:07:54 -0400 Subject: Progeria - Premature Aging Disease Greetings everyone One well known persoanlity who suffered from this disease was Mickey Hayes who appeared in the movie "Aurora Encounter" This was set in Aurora,Texas and Mickey played the role as the Alien. The origins of this story (as I understand it) came from out of the Airship Wave of the late 1800,s. Mickey Hayes also appeared on "Thats Incredible" along with another sufferer of this disease. The program bought them together for the show and an off-camera trip through Disneyland (from memory) I read only 2 or 3 years ago that Mickey Hayes died from the disease at the age of 20, a rare occurance for a sufferer to live to this age Regards to all -- Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 "Weird" Contamination Suits From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 0:52:38 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:06:27 -0400 Subject: "Weird" Contamination Suits I was interested reading the post about biohazard suits with air apparatus attached to the leg. _Surely_ some more examples of these suits can be unearthed. Are these devices in evidence in the film (perhaps as bulges in the white fabric)? A great deal of virtual laughter has greeted the idea of hardware grafted into the leg/foot area of an anti-contamination suit, but I find the idea more than plausible. Radio, etc. was a relatively bulky technology in 1947 and the last place it would be wanted would be filling the pathologists' helmets. The notion may sound silly in our world of wallet-sized cellular phones and laptop computers, but I don't believe it's near the cause for hilarity that it's been made out to be in the recent past. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: (dis-)information and the Internet From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:00:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:00:14 -0400 Subject: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet Hi Greg, >From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:31:04 -0400 >About Maurice Chatelain: >And you might consult past volumes of Who's Who. There might be a >science and technology Who's Who volume, which would very likely >include Chatelain, if he was who he claimed to be. I've spend hours looking for pictures to accompany the "Astronauts & Ufo's" section of the KUFOR site. For all the important people I could find pictures, except of Chatelain. That in itself doesn't prove anything. However, I do find it strange that I can come up with a picture of Joseph Walker, who was a test pilot, but can't find any reference in writing or pictures of Chatelain. Best Regards, Karel. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Arizona sightings From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:56:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:10:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (CDT) > From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings > John Velez wrote ... > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:08:01 -0400 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings > [snip] > > If the black helicopters are real, what else are > > the guys I fondly refer to as, 'conspiracy nuts' > > right about?! Sure as hell giving me cause to > > give some of that material a re-think. > We need (a lot of people) in on this. This, is as > 'serious' as it gets folks. We're not living in the > country we think we are. > Yes, someone out there may very well have the power > to do this. I think you should read the following > paper by Dr. Stephen Greer, maybe twice ... > -Brian C. I agree with the statements about black helicopters. They are comprehensible, verifiable, photographable, "witnessable", and if unmarked and denied by military installations (which seems to be the case) may be an excellent entree for Congress/law enforcement into the investiagtion of renegade US military, intelligence, or civilian forces. And because, from numerous reports over many years, (singsong) "the hip bone's connected to the thigh bone," an investigation into when and where will lead to the circumstances in which they are seen - during or followup to UFO and abduction events. An approach of this nature, starting with this not-too-far-out departure from the comfortable known, could be the most publicly acceptable method for senior law enforcement officials or legislators to enter the Vast Subject. When I write my Congresswoman and Senator this weekend to urge support for the open Congressional hearings and open scientific investigation of the visitors, I intend to suggest this type of investigation as an alternative approach. Most of the populace, I believe, has an aversion to Big Brother and would react negatively to publicized and documented reports of misconduct by helicopters. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Strieber's "Majestic" Premise and UFO Recovery From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 0:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:02:28 -0400 Subject: Strieber's "Majestic" Premise and UFO Recovery In Whitley Strieber's novel "Majestic," the aliens' saucer crash was intentional--in effect, an invitation for humanity to officially recognize "the visitors'" reality. _If_ the Roswell Incident was in fact a UFO crash-retrieval and (another "if") Santilli's crash story is true, then it certainly strains belief to imagine that advanced nonhuman pilots could crash in essentially the same location at essentially the same time (Socorro and Roswell, respectively). Has there been any speculation among researchers that one or both alleged crashes were _intentional_? **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Seeing is not believing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Apr 97 07:57:53 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:11:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:35:13 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >Looks like still another version being offered-up on >the origin of the Santilli alien autopsy "film." >I wonder what happened to the Ohio/Elvis scenario? Uh, Vince. Is there any point in asking you to pay attention?? Ray has always said he met the cameraman in Cleveland, Ohio, where the cameraman's son lives. He was visiting his son at the time, but he has lived in the same house in Florida for many years. Ray said from the beginning that he took an "internal flight" from Cleveland to go to the cameraman's home and look at the film. Nothing new here. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 More help for Philip..... From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:53:02 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:41:04 -0400 Subject: More help for Philip..... Dear colleagues, Does anyone out thee have any of the official documents relating the l956 radar/visual encounters over RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England. If you have then please contact me as soon as possible. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Hallright... now, stop zis... zis is _too_ sillee! From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:30:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:19:11 -0400 Subject: Hallright... now, stop zis... zis is _too_ sillee! Press release from the Raelian Movement Monday, March 10th, 1997 UFO land UFO land will be a theme park focused on UFOs, and espacially on the books of RAEL, the world's most famous contactee, author of the bestseller The message given to me by extraterrestrials, which has sold more than one million copies and has been translated into 22 languages. In 1973, when he was a french journalist, he had en encounter with extraterrestrials, and was asked by them to build an embassy on Earth where they would come to contact world governments. All over the world, millions of people are attracted by the phenomenon of UFOs. The success of movies such as Close Encounters, ET, Star Treck, orThe Abyss, confirms the public's enthousiasm over this subject. Presently, there is no theme park anywhere in the world devoted to UFOs. UFO land will focus on UFOs, space exploration, genetic engineering, video games, virtual reality, astronomy, and the future. The first UFO land will be created in Valcourt, Canada, a small town 80 kilometers east of Montreal (about 1 hour by car), on a 80 hectares (200 acres) site close to the Canada-US border. Montreal is about 1hour flying time from New York. After that, we will create another UFO land in ORLANDO USA and one in JAPAN; the two countries where the subject of UFOs has arouse the most interest. The most fascinating part of UFO land will be a full sized replica of a UFO : for the first time on this planet, the public will be able to visit the interior of a UFO. The first building of the theme park has already been built in the shape of a UFO, using a revolutionary ecological technique Given the increasing popularity of green technology, its construction using bales of straw will also be one of the main attractions of the park. Since the younger generation is increasingly interested in space and futuristic technologies, as evidenced by the success of the EPCOT CENTRE in DISNEYLAND ORLANDO, the theme park will become a world center for UFO enthousiasts. And as with everything else, we need to be the first on the market. This is why now is the ideal time to be part of this successful enterprise. UFO land INFO : +1 514 723 5098 P.O. Box 86, YOUVILLE STATION MONTREAL, QC, CANADA H2P 2V2 Mark Pilkington Magonia online http://www.netkonect.co.uk/d/dogon/index.htm "Big words, smooth talking, BUT WHAT'S YOUR POINT?!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Apr 97 11:13:06 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:05:50 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:45:04 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: GOES-9 Satellite UFO Images & NORAD Alert Drew said, >This is most likely the reason for the alert as many institutions >throughout the U.S. took extra safety precautions for the "bombing >anniversary." Or it could be because of the nuclear threat that the Farsight Institute's Remote Viewers have seen in our near future. <g> Yep, Dr. Brown's at it again. Visit: http://www.farsight.org If you're in NYC, be afraid, be very afraid. Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 13:35:11 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:49:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 17 Apr 97 15:10:20 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:36:32 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing I wrote to Bob Shell: >>Please state categorically for your fellow subscribers to this >>list whether Kodak Denmark ever examined relevant portions of the >>actual AA "film" (i.e., showing the "alien" or "autopsy room") or >>not. >>If the answer is no, please explain why you insist on presenting >>the false impression -- as you did above -- that Kodak Denmark >>has verified the age of the AA "film." To which Bob responded: >I do not know which film Triple Entertainment showed to the people >at Kodak Denmark. It really doesn't matter, since Kodak Denmark's >letter verifying that the film is from 1947 was based on incorrect >information, as I stated in my last message. >I don't think that I gave the "false impression" tht Kodak >Denmark had verified the age of the film. I said that they >provided written verification, but that it was wrong. At the >time ray got this he did not know it was incorrect, and he quoted >it as proof of the film's age. >I've never said that Ray has not made mistakes in his handling >of all this, but I do not think it is fair to accuse him of >things he did not do. >And, for myself, I am the one who discovered on my own about >Kodak's mistake and passed this on to Ray. The problem was not with Kodak, but with Santilli's submission of irrelevant, extraneous film samples for authentication -- and then his continued assertion that Kodak has authenticated the AA "film." You don't find these actions questionable? Let's review our "nits" thread: >Ok, lets pick some nits. >When Ray first saw the film in Florida, he says he phoned Kodak >while he had the film in his hands, talked to them about edge >codes, and was told that the film was absolutely from 1947. >That's why he agreed to buy it. >Later, in a letter on Kodak stationary, an official of Kodak >Denmark stated that the film was definitely from 1947. >The problem, as I have been told by Kodak personnel, is in the >chart used to identify film. This shows the edge code, a square >and a triangle, as being solid for 1927 and 1947, and as being >drawn in outline for 1967. Kodak people, being presented with a >solid square and triangle, would naturally say that the film was >definitely 1947 (since no one has suggested it is as old as >1927) if they were unaware that this is simply a mistake in the >chart. >So we do have official written verification from Kodak that the >film was 1947, but this was wrong. When Ray stated that Kodak >had verified the film, this is what he was referring to. So Kodak initially had only Santilli's description of the edge codes to work from, and later, Kodak only had pieces of non-relevant extraneous film samples, correct? Does this strike you as an honest attempt by Santilli to verify the age of the film -- or as a means to create the false impression (for marketing purposes) that the "film" had been independently dated when it most certainly had not? Here's what it all boils down to: Ray Santilli has left a trail of mis-statements, evasions and demonstrable lies since this sordid affair began. As yet, there is no independent verification that an AA "film" even exists. Yet you and your "IRT" colleagues continue to defend the authenticity of the AA video -- apparently based exclusively (there is no supportive data other than the video images themselves) on the word of Ray Santilli. Since Santilli has zero credibility, how can you defend your defense of the indefensible? I've yet to see a statement from any of the "IRT" explaining just what aspect of the AAV deserves serious consideration in light of Santilli's preposterous weaselings. Other than for some financial stake in Santilli's enterprise, I certainly can't conceive a rational explanation. What about this caper do you and your colleagues on the "IRT" find to be credible? I've asked this question of you and Michael Hesemann on numerous occasions without getting a reply. Another non-response will indicate conclusively (at least to me) that "financial considerations" is the only rational explanation -- since I can tell that you guys aren't stupid. Help us out here, Bob. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Seeing is not believing From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 13:52:13 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:51:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeing is not believing >Date: 18 Apr 97 07:57:53 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not >believing >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:35:13 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Seeing is not believing >>Looks like still another version being offered-up on >>the origin of the Santilli alien autopsy "film." >>I wonder what happened to the Ohio/Elvis scenario? >Uh, Vince. Is there any point in asking you to pay attention?? >Ray has always said he met the cameraman in Cleveland, Ohio, where >the cameraman's son lives. He was visiting his son at the time, >but he has lived in the same house in Florida for many years. Ray >said from the beginning that he took an "internal flight" from >Cleveland to go to the cameraman's home and look at the film. >Nothing new here. I guess this will be the "official" chronology until the inevitable contradictory data forces a revision. Silly me, I keep getting Santilli's constantly changing narrative mixed up. Regards, Vince Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien From: Cleefs@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:25:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien In a message dated 97-04-17 13:59:35 EDT, you write: > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:41:48 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Strange Universe area 51 alien >From: Cleefs@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:34:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strange Universe area 51 alien 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 >I was watching a tv show on a disease that >makes people age rapidly, and that most do not live past >the age of 14. The name of the disease escapes me, however >being men of medical background, some of you, I am sure you >know which one I mean. There was this 15 year old girl on >the show that looked remarkably like the depictions of >aliens. She was 3 1/2 feet tall, bald, head large, big >bulging eyes. >The disease concerned is called "progeria". The following >from http://chs-web.neb.net/people/students/sdweber/progeria/ >toc.html: >"Progeria was discovered in 1886 by Jonathan Hutchinson. >It was not officialy named until 1904 when Hastings Gilford >gave it the name Progeria. The disease is also commonly called >Hutchinson-Gilford syndrome,after these two researchers." >"If a person is found to have Progeria, there is nothing that >can be done. There is not a known treatment for the disease. >The person could live a fairly normal lifestyle for about 20 >years of their lives. The only thing that should hinder an >affected person is the physical appearance of him or her. This >person will not have to worry too much about this though, since > he or she will be dead by the time he or she turns 30. " >There was a local case that I remember clearly (little chap >called Hansie Geringer), and I must admit that there are >certain aspects of the disease that reminds one of the basic >characteristics of a grey. >HOWEVER: To say this type of poor person was used in the >Area 51 interrogation footage would imply that somebody is >EXTREMELY sick!!! (in the head I mean). >Jakes Thank you for this enlightening information. My thought is this. If a person wants to leave something behind for their family, then a hoaxer's offer of money would certainly be attractive to that person with Progeria. Plus a chance to be in a film, I am sure would be enticing. Afterall, how many hoaxers do you think are not sick in the head? Hoaxers and practical jokers, never look into the effects of their funny ideas. The little girl I saw was in some place like Brazil, and she was the eldest of 9 kids. I am sure to someone in her situation, money would be very attractive. Thanks again Jake. Lee [Finkle]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Arizona sightings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:50:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:06:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > From: meccam@205.252.116.10 > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:56:34 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (CDT) > > From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings > When I write my Congresswoman and Senator this weekend to urge support > for the open Congressional hearings and open scientific investigation of > the visitors, I intend to suggest this type of investigation as an > alternative approach. Most of the populace, I believe, has an aversion > to Big Brother and would react negatively to publicized and documented > reports of misconduct by helicopters. > Melanie These black helicopters I have been reading about in Pheonix, just exactly what is the mischief that they have been up to. Also knowing the distance from any controlled airspace (civilian or military) in that area will help to determine if the choppers are private (which I doubt) or government sanctioned. (Notice I did not say military?) Also, any idea of the chopper's altitude? Can anyone get a jpeg or a gif on here that has better rez than J.V.'s? I must admit I'm a bit intrigued, but one snip with for or five ships in it is just another airshow shot-no offence John. Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | meccam |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 "Weird" Contamination Suits From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Apr 97 12:44:57 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:14:16 -0400 Subject: "Weird" Contamination Suits >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 0:52:38 -0500 (CDT) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: "Weird" Contamination Suits >I was interested reading the post about biohazard suits with air >apparatus attached to the leg. _Surely_ some more examples of >these suits can be unearthed. Are these devices in evidence >in the film (perhaps as bulges in the white fabric)? A colleague of mine did find pictures of similar suits in a book of that time frame (1947). The suits were utilized during loading of caustic fuels. Also, in a frame-by-frame analysis of the film, there are several places where it appears that some type of mouthpiece creates a bulge in the hood of the suit. A remarkably thorough hoax!! Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: (dis-)information and the Internet From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:01:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:04:16 -0400 Subject: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet Hi, Karel.... > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:00:38 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: (dis-)information and the Internet > I've spend hours looking for pictures to accompany the "Astronauts & Ufo's" > section of the KUFOR site. For all the important people I could find > pictures, except of Chatelain. That in itself doesn't prove anything. > However, I do find it strange that I can come up with a picture of Joseph > Walker, who was a test pilot, but can't find any reference in writing or > pictures of Chatelain. So maybe he's not who he said he was..... However, here's his address and phone number, as found by a Web search engine. (Excite People Finder, to be exact.) Or, anyway, the address and phone number of someone with the same name: Maurice J Chatelain Airport Rd, Star Lake NY 13690 Phone : 315-848-2326 Amazing, isn't it, what a little research can reveal? Why don't you or Gary call him? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 How many internet mail list subscribers does it From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:58:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:48:44 -0400 Subject: How many internet mail list subscribers does it Taken from a post to I-Advertising Discussion Digest: http://www.exposure-usa.com/i-advertising/ Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Armen Victorian From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:08:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:30:59 -0400 Subject: Armen Victorian NO ARM-EN IT? Some of the most astounding and startling evidence that=20 certain governments are privy to the existence and visitation of=20 extraterrestrial craft and/or their occupants to our planet, actually=20 come from official sources. These are either obtainable via the FOIA=20 (Freedom Of Information Act), a legitimate avenue of information, or=20 are obtained illegally, ie: through 'contacts' in certain sensitive=20 establishments that restrict the flow of information to 'protect the=20 public'. How considerate! It is a fact, however, that about 40% of=20 all released information on sensitive issues is in fact obtained=20 through dubious means. By dubious, I mean information received that=20 would never be admitted to by the authorities and that cannot be=20 backed up. Of course, a lot of it may have been 'accidentally'=20 released as disinformation exercises, really putting a spanner in the=20 works. One of the most successful 'Conspiracy investigators' is a=20 gentleman who calls himself Dr. Armen Victorian. The good doctor=20 (doctor of what, we have no idea), is the person who gave us the=20 information about the South African Air Force shooting down a UFO=20 over their air space in 1990, causing the craft to force an emergency=20 landing and resulting in the capture of several alien life forms that=20 were whisked away by the Americans, for some unknown reason.=20 Unfortunately, this story, to my knowledge, has never been=20 substantiated. However, Victorians alleged past hasn't helped matters=20 when it comes to authenticating information that he has passed on.=20 According to the 'Fortean Times', (issue 90 - sept 1996) in an=20 article by freelance journalist Rob Irving, Dr. Armen Victorians'=20 credentials are somewhat dodgy.=20 Armen Victorian: What's his game? Born as Habib Azadehdel in the then Soviet Armenia, he fled=20 to the 'safety' of Iran. Azadehdel was educated in the USA and Paris,=20 France, and then, in his twenties, was recruted by the Iranian=20 government as a diplomatic 'fixer' to the South Korean Embassy in=20 Tehran. Azadehdel fled to Britain (when the going got tough), with=20 his brother, Basil, who opened the first of a chain of mini- supermarkets in Nottingham. Azadehdel bought himself a house in the=20 same area with the intention of settling down, and changed his name=20 to 'Henry'. This was to be the first of many different names used by=20 Azadehdel. Among others, there was 'Julian Phillips' (inspired by his=20 first sons' name, Julleane Philippe), 'Mr. Scanlon', 'Dr. Alan=20 Jones', 'Cassava N'Tumba', and ultimately, 'Dr. Armen Victorian' (the=20 'Armen' presumably being a shortening of Armenia, the place of his=20 birth). =20 'Henry' Azadehdel, first came into the media spotlight in=20 1989, where we see him at the Old Bailey, accused of orchid=20 smuggling. Funnily enough, I was working at the Old Bailey at that=20 time, and remember the case. I have met Mr. Azadehdel, although brief=20 it was. Henry received a one year prison sentence and six weeks=20 later, after a succesful appeal, he was freed, having his sentence=20 reduced to time served. According to Rob Irving, in 1994, Henry and his wife were=20 arrested and charged with telephone deception, amounting to 10,000.=20 Henry was charged under the name, Armen Victorian, and pleaded not=20 guilty. The CPS dicontinued their action against him but continued=20 against his wife, who had pleaded guilty. She received two concurrent=20 conditional discharges of 12 months. So, although Henry has been prosecuted twice for criminal=20 offences, he has succeded in beating the system to a certain degree.=20 He was, after all, found guilty of smuggling. It is true also that he=20 has an ability to 'aquire' certain documents. Unfortunately, the=20 contact in the South African Air Force Intelligence who gave Armen=20 the information about the shooting down of a UFO over the Kalahari=20 desert, was bearly twenty years old and had left a trail of debts=20 whilst foraging through American UFO bookshops! Hardly a credible=20 source. It is also true that Henry has been the victim of a=20 surveilance operation by person or persons unknown, and has proof of=20 this. It is also true that Henry has been spreading nasty gossip=20 about some respected researchers in Ufology. These being Tim Good,=20 Graham Birdsall, Bob Oechsler, to mention a few. Why? Is Henry part=20 of the global disinformation machine known as 'The Aviary'. The CIA=20 cannot , quote: "confirm or deny any involvement with this person". The 'X - Factor' magazine ran an article on Dr. Armen=20 Victorian in issue 8, and mentioned the article printed by the=20 'Fortean Times'. Armens' reaction was this: "I was jumping for joy.=20 It all increases the mystique. In fact, I called them and thanked=20 them. What Mr.Irving has done is basically publish tabloid material=20 about me- but I enjoyed reading it."=20 I rang the 'Fortean Times' to ask them their view on the 'X -=20 Factors' article and would they comment on the validity of Mr.=20 Irvings investigations. Associate Editor, Joe McNally hadn't seen the=20 article, so I read it to him. He was more than helpful, and rang me=20 back an hour later with this statement, exclusively for the UFOMEK=20 newsletter:=20 " We went through all Rob Irvings research for the piece very, very=20 closely, and we were entirely satisfied that everything that he said=20 in that article was acurate and backed up by his research. And if you=20 want to mention this in your newsletter, it would be great, but he=20 did get in touch with us occasionally after and while the piece was=20 in preparation. I would like it made clear that he did actually have=20 the right of reply in the pages of 'FT' if he wanted it, but he chose=20 not to excersise that right". So, there we have it. Confused? So am I a little, but that's what=20 this business is all about. Jerry Anderson UFOMEK Also this has been "Discovered" very shortly after. I was talking to a freind of mine in cheshire, Mr "E", he runs a=20 UFO group, he deals a lot with alleged abductees. Anyway, we were=20 talking and I happened to mention Armen Victorian. E nearly blew a=20 fuse!! Apparently, back in '89, E was investigating a story of a=20 crashed triangle in Cornwall, and had actually taken some photos' of=20 parts of this thing being salveged by the RAF before he was chased=20 off by the MoD. He was working on the case with Leonard Stringfield=20 of the USA (now deceased), who had tipped E off in the first place=20 about the crash. About two weeks later, Victorian got in touch with E=20 and said that Stringfield had recommended him (Victorian), as someone=20 that E would benefit from in working on the case. They arranged to=20 meet a couple of days later at E's home. E didn't bother confirming=20 the claim made by Victorian, thinking that Stringfield had arranged=20 it to help offload some of the work. Victorian, at this time, was not=20 known as he is today, and E had no cause to be suspicious of him.=20 Victorian arrived dead on time in a large black car with personalized=20 number plates, 'AV1' I think E said. Victorian was dressed entirely=20 in black and introduced himself. During that afternoon, they ploughed=20 through the photographic and documented evidence that E had amassed=20 during his investigation into the crash. Victorian stayed to tea and=20 was treated as a guest should be, copious amounts of coffee and=20 sandwiches, that sort of thing. When he eventually left, E saw him=20 down to his car, copied down Victorians' telephone number and bade=20 him farewell. E went back into the house, picked up his case=20 containing his report, only to find that it had gone! Documents,=20 photos', everything. Victorian must have taken them when E had nipped=20 to the loo just before Victorian had left! E was seething to say the=20 least and a couple of hours later rang Victorian at the number he had=20 been given. Suprisingly the telephone was answered by Victorian=20 himself! Has this man no shame? E asked him if he had taken the=20 documents, to which Victorian replied, "yes, I did, and it will cost=20 you =A32,000 to get them back!" E told him where to get off in no=20 uncertain terms, and slammed the phone down. E's enquiries into=20 Victorian have led him to believe that he is involved in some sort of=20 counter-intelligence as regards UFO investigation. E is not a happy man and if ever he comes into contact with Armen=20 ever again Mr Victorian is likely to need the services of the local=20 hospital. Jerry. Jerry Anderson co-ordinator of UFOMEK http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ufomek.htm [Sean Jones]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 BWW Media Alert 970418 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:14:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:15:13 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970418 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) April 18, 1997 FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. The GREAT MID ATLANTIC 50th ANNIVERSARY UFO SYMPOSIUM: Bethesda Ramada Inn; Saturday, May 3, 9 AM start; Investigator's workshop, Stan Friedman, Linda Howe, Bruce Maccabee, others; $35; Call 301-349-2434 for information. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. You can listen to it on your computer, as well as on many radio stations: go to http://www.endoftheline.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? (They have now provided me with program summaries, which I greatly appreciate!) --week of 4/14: Episode #96-120: In COULD IT BE A MIRACLE, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: a woman talks to angels during an out of body experience and returns to life; a suicidal woman's faith is restored by a mysterious man who saves her life; an angel carries a sick boy to his parents' house so he can get the necessary treatment; the angel experts discuss their opinions on the miraculous; a figure in white appears and saves a young girl from a fire; because they are all mysteriously delayed, the members of a church choir narrowly miss being in an explosion. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 4/13, THE 13TH FLOOR: a possessed woman wants revenge on her husband; THE BELIEVER: psychic extortionist Saturday, April 12 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Here's the line-up: 5:00 PM...Kevin Randle (author* of several books, perhaps most notably UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL* with Don Schmidt) on the Roswell Incident and the government cover-up; 5:30 PM, Barry Bitzer, Press Secretary to N.M. Congressman Steven Schiff who initiated a search into Roswell documents; 6:00 PM, Dr. Lee Shargel, a highly controversial figure in the UFO field, who now claims to have been the last person to speak to Applewhite before the suicides (of course, Stan Johnson, bigfoot contactee, has him beat...he talked to them =after= their suicides!; 6:30 PM, Brian Welch, NASA's Chief of Public Information (or something like that); 6:45 PM, Margaret Roberts, Executive Producer of STRANGE UNIVERSE, about the video they are going to show on Monday with an alien supposedly being interrogated at top-secret Area 51. SU is devoting Monday's show to it; 7:00 PM, Barbara Matacotta & Michele Mason, who doing the "Therapeutic Touch; 7:30 PM, Brad Steiger, the incredibly prolific author on the paranormal, on his personal involvement with Applewhite and Nettles (Bo and Peep, etc.). Steiger really presents well. All in all, a hot show! LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available. Brenda Roberts produces. SYNDICATED TV, THE SALLY JESSY RAPHAEL show: psychic Sylvia Browne 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP (evidence for sea monsters) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: ROSWELL Sunday, April 13 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: FAKES OR PHENOMENA (apparently, things like the Piri Reis map) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT 2:30 PM, LOCAL TELEVISION (although it may be PBS), KRCB in Rohnert Park, California: INTERNET CAFE: UFOS 4:00 PM, (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT 7:00 PM, TBS, TOPX: CONSPIRACIES (given what this series has covered in the past, I'll be surprised if UFOs don't sneak in as a topic) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: (#5063) RESTLESS SPIRITS (part 1 & 2),(Illinois ghost) ; FOO FIGHTERS (before they were a band, they were WWII UFOs); UNEXPECTED VISITORS (angels); IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT Monday, April 14 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: alien interrogation: this is likely to be the tape we've been hearing about, such as on EDGE OF REALITY this week: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION (pet psychics); and FENG SHUI 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY: WITCHES AND VAMPIRES 10:30 PM, TBS, TOPX: CONSPIRACIES (given what this series has covered in the past, I'll be surprised if UFOs don't sneak in as a topic) Tuesday, April 15 SYNDICATED TV, MONTEL WILLIAMS: psychic Sylvia Browne...this may air tomorrow in your area SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ghosts of Seattle (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY: WITCHES AND VAMPIRES 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#15) SEANCES; DREAM THERAPY; and THE GHOST AND MRS. VIEWER (how to see spirits in your home) Wednesday, April 16 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: millenial predictions (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; and GALACTIC HUMANS (I don't know if the Heaven's Gate group was on this...I doubt it) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE--SECRETS REVEALED 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053) Thursday, April 17 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: UFO activists (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: THE UNEXPLAINED: WITCHES, WEREWOLVES & VAMPIRES: Peter Graves hosts 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE--SECRETS REVEALED 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#17): WALK THROUGH FIRE; STAR-GAZING; and SEX, DEATH, SCANDAL, AND HOLLYWOOD (or something like that) 7:00 PM, LOCAL TELEVISION (although it may be PBS), KRCB in Rohnert Park, California: INTERNET CAFE: UFOS 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA Friday, April 18 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Anne Rice(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA 2:30 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, THE NEXT STEP: includes ghost hunters 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#18) PSYCHOMETRICS; UFOS & DOLPHINS; and San Jose California's WINCHESTER MYSTERY HOUSE 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: I've got some conflicting information about what will be on, but I think it will have a men-in-black piece and one on a medium 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, THE UNEXPLAINED: crop circles, voodoo, and such This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 'Dark Skies' fades to black? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:56:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:56:21 -0400 Subject: 'Dark Skies' fades to black? Several of us around here have been puzzled by the seeming disappearance of 'Dark Skies' from our tv screens..... From: http://www.goodnet.com/~leew/sftv/darkskies.txt 'The Magrathea/SFTV Page!' _____________________________________________________ An Open Letter from Bryce Zabel Co-Creator/Executive Producer April 2, 1997 Those of you who have watched Dark Skies know how we like to tell you the real story behind the story. A lot of times that includes aliens but, unfortunately, this time, I can't blame them for why you can't find us on Saturday nights any more. Or at least until the end of May. Our latest pre-emption will be nine weeks. That's probably a record. We have two episodes left. "Strangers in the Night" will air May 24th. Our season finale, "Bloodlines", will air on May 31st. There is more story packed into "Bloodlines" than a normal five episodes. Mark your calendars. That final episode takes you to the San Francisco in the "Summer of Love" where you'll meet Timothy Leary, Carl Sagan, Ronald Reagan and Charlie Manson, among others. You'll find out what happens to Kim, whether John finds his son or not, and you'll hear about a tenth planet, Project Intruder, and bloodlines. If we're going out, we're going out with style. So, the good news is we get to finish telling the first season's story. For all intents and purposes, however, NBC has written us off. We were the lowest rated series of all the Big Three networks. They are actively seeking our replacement. There are lots of reasons for this. In the world of networks, numbers are the only bottom line. I thought you might like to know a little more. It started with our time slot. Saturday nights are historically the worst viewing nights. People go out, they party, they see movies, they have dinner. They don't maintain regular viewing habits. The 8 o'clock slot on Saturday nights is the worst time slot on the worst night. Granted, our competition, Doctor Quinn, did well there but they are definite family viewing and we were on the family viewing hit list. Besides, Quinn has been on for a number of years and had time to find an audience. If people are going to even have a chance to watch, you have to be on-the-air. We routinely ran across people in our internet chat groups who saw the show mentioned in their local TV listings but couldn't find it on the tube because local stations had pre-empted us for everything from college basketball to Billy Graham. Those people got pissed off and I don't know if they ever came back. A lot of the rest of you have been upset by all the network scheduled pre-emptions. After only two airings, for example, we were taken off the schedule for two weeks because of the baseball play-offs and the World Series. We faced four more sets of pre-emptions of two to three weeks each time. Networks have to pre-empt, of course, because they don't make as many episodes as there are weeks in the year, but often they run re-runs or promos telling your audience when you'll be back. We were never repeated at all this season, not once. Even when we went into a pre-empt, there was never a notice at the end of one of our last shows when the next show would air. On the other hand, The Pretender not only repeated but was given the E/R slot at the beginning of the season to expose it to other viewers. Some people thought if we were on Saturdays we should have been on at 9 or 10 o'clock. Our concepts were adult, and so were our story lines. The Pretender, in contrast, seemed much more acceptable to a younger, family audience. They got a try-out in our time slot although we never got an airing outside of our 8 o'clock slot. Why? Well, both The Pretender and Profiler are either owned or partially owned by NBC. I have no evidence that this has made a difference, but there are people in the business who tell me it probably did. Another obstacle was the fact that Fox programs at 8 o'clock and they don't at 10 o'clock. We had to face Fox's Cops which, with its heavy male appeal, struck straight at our core audience every airing. Plus, depending on your local station, we often found ourselves up against Hercules and Star Trek , splitting the sci-fi crowd even further. Speaking of... Something that hurt us badly at the first of the year was the perception in the sci-fi community that we were an X-Files rip-off. This was the easy hook for critics to use in writing their reviews. It soon became a loyalty test. You couldn't like Dark Skies if you liked X-Files. Which was too bad because the shows are very dissimilar, each fun to watch in its own way. While they were sly about their reveals, we were in-your-face. While they dealt with all paranormal activity, we focused on aliens. While they were present, we were past. And while their characters never slept together, ours did. Both Brent Friedman and I were a little surprised at how selective this filter was. At the first of the season, X-Files did an entire episode which flashed back to the JFK assassination and took place in Dallas, Texas. This was, of course, the Rosetta stone of Dark Skies but we never heard from a fan or a reviewer who pointed out the similarity. Anyway, the point is, eventually people who watched Dark Skies decided, for better or worse, we were not the same show at all, but the perception hurt, and we probably never got over it. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy in the network business. The worse you do, the more likely you are to be deprived of the very things that are necessary to breathe new life into your show. Your ratings are bad so they get worse. They get worse and you get cancelled. So, are we cancelled? Not officially. However, the network announces next year's schedule in May and, again as scheduled, we don't even air our final two episodes until May 24th and May 31st. Now, if you talk to the NBC brass, they'll tell you they gave us a shot and we didn't cut it. Fair enough. Get this, however. In England, where we are on every Wednesday night at 9 o'clock, we're getting a 21 share. We're tied with the E/R numbers. On the other hand, if you want to help us give it a shot, I'm game. Those of you who are fans, let's tell NBC what the show has meant to you. But don't E-mail them. I know you're all techno-sophisticated but an E-mail will be completely ignored. You can't dump a stack of E-mail on someone's desk. If you want to get through to the Powers-That-Be, you have to use snail mail. You have to write a letter. Here's what you need to know: Warren Littlefield President, NBC 3000 West Alameda Avenue, Burbank, California 91523 (818) 840-4444 Tell Warren how much Dark Skies has meant to you. Tell him how hard it's been for you to establish a regular appointment with the show like other fans do with shows like Friends and E/R. If you tape the show, tell him that you and your kind have never been measured by Nielsen. Break off one of those little black recording tabs, tape it to your letter. But most of all, write. Write now. If you really want to help bring this series back, we have another idea. After you've sent your letter to NBC, keep writing. Write to each of the heads of the other five networks. Tell them that you watch Dark Skies and that if NBC is foolish enough to cancel us and they're smart enough to pick us up, you will follow the show to their network. These are the names and addresses you'll need for that campaign: Les Moonves President, CBS-TV 7800 Beverly Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90036 (213) 852-2345 Jamie Tarses President, ABC-TV 2040 Avenue of the Stars Los Angeles, CA 90067 (310) 557-7777 Peter Roth President, FBC-TV 10201 W. Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 (310) 369-1000 Lucie Salhaney President, UPN 11800 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90025 (310) 575-7000 Jamie Kellner President, WB 4000 Warner Blvd. Burbank, CA 91522 (818) 977-5000 Think of May 1st as your first deadline for getting letters out. Think of May 10th as your absolute drop-dead time to get letters out. This is because Hollywood is in the middle of pilot season. All the pilots are being shot and edited now. The networks get them, make their decisions and announce their schedules in mid to late May. There is time, but it is running out. So let's start our own little conspiracy. Maybe we'll save the show. But if any guys in black suits and shades come to your door asking where you got these addresses - we never had this conversation. Okay? As John Loengard would say, "Do not be afraid. The fight for Humanity demands your courage." Whatever happens, your support meant a lot. You had to fight to watch our series and you did. Resist Singularity, Bryce Zabel Co-Creator, Executive Producer Dark Skies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Arizona sightings From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:37:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 04:51:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:50:30 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings >Also, any idea of the chopper's altitude? Can anyone get a jpeg or a >gif on here that has better rez than J.V.'s? I must admit I'm a bit >intrigued, but one snip with for or five ships in it is just another >airshow shot-no offence John. >Don Ledger Hiya Don, hi All, Don, I intentionally used a frame that *showed the roof* of Toms' house *for distance reference*. Put on yer glasses and give em a second look! <G> Also, if you know of any sanctioned "airshows" over residential areas I'd be interested in hearing about it. Those things are flying low, (in formation) over peoples homes! Oh and in case you didn't notice, they are flying in a standard *military* formation. (One out front and the other slightly back and to his side.) No 'airshow' or commercial craft are permitted under 500ft over residential areas that I know of. At least that's the rule here in NY, I would imagine it's applicable nation wide. (Pilots, please correct me if wrong) The implication of your comment ("just another airshow shot") is that Tom has submitted footage of an "airshow", and is representing it as something else. That, or it's just a flip analysis intended to minimize the impact/import of this material. Let me tell you that the footage begins showing the treetops across from his house (located in a suburban residential area) it follows the black helicopters across until they disappear behind the edge of the roof on Toms' house. He was standing in his front yard when he got the footage. You don't have to take anyones word for it, it's all on the clip. I'll submit more of these frames from the same sequence if you need to see em. The only "airshow" happening there is unscheduled, and unlawful. There's a lot of pissed off Americans in Phoenix right now, you ought to talk to them about "airshows". They want to know what's going on and they're not getting any answers. The number of *first hand eye witnesses* alone would be able to convict Mother Theresa of willful murder if they took the case to any open court in the land! At some point we really have to stop all of the "Well it could be this or that" crap and start paying some serious attention to what these folks are reporting. Here's a live case, happening right now as we speak, write e-mails, make phone calls, do your homework, talk to some of the people involved. I have. They are decent, ordinary folks that deserve a fair hearing. I guess some folks will dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their belief systems without even a cursory examination. (Not for you personally Don,) I would suggest that anyone who thinks that there is a hoax being perpetrated *contact the guys in Phoenix* who are getting all this stuff on tape. I've been trying to get attention for this case, if I've gotten it, follow through and go their website. Tom has a *ton* of his video posted there. Write to them with your questions, and get all the information that you can. They may even be able to provide better res. images for you than I have. http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm It's well worth your time, there is something major and very real happening in the skies over Phoenix. I for one will not just let it go by the boards or ignore it. Or, dismiss it with simplistic guesses or rationales, there's just *too many* folks telling the *same story* for it all to be mis-perception or the old standby, mass hallucination! Wake up and start listening to what they have to say and are reporting. It's time to start taking these folks seriously, they're our neighbors. Talk to: Bill Hamilton, via this list Tom King, via the website Tim Edwards, via the website Jason DeGraf, via the website And then find out from *them* who else you may need to talk to. I have found that these guys are all straight shooters and people of quality. Contact them. Do it, and you'll come away with a whole new outlook on life. There's enough compelling *evidence* here to resink the Titanic! <G> John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 BWW Media Alert 970418 - Correction From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:15:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:05:58 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970418 - Correction Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) April 18, 1997 Well, =that= was bizarre! I was working on this week's issue, and had only gotten as far as pasting in last week's and "stripping" it (taking out the program descriptions and such). I left the room, a flash session started, and it appears to have sent it! You may therefore have already received a "naked" version, or perhaps gotten one with program descriptions for =last= week in it. I guess (in the case of the television shows, anyway) that would be "deja view". This'll be the right one, and my apologies if anything happened. If it didn't...well, my apologies anyway :). If you know someone in Middle School in California, they may see a tape called IMMUNIZATION DAY. It uses a mock alien invasion to demonstrate to kids the need for getting their adolescent vaccinations. I'm credited on there, and did contribute to it, but oddly enough, I didn't have anything to do with the alien part! When I worked on it, they were doing an Ace Ventura inspired piece. How's that for synchronicity? On to the listings...the right ones :) . FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. ANACONDA is playing in movie theaters, and I meant to mention something about it last week. Okay, you probably know that constrictors don't behave in a way that would make them very good monsters. They generally move pretty slowly (unless they are striking), and they never eat more than one "victim" at a time, as far as my experience goes. If there is a nest of mice, a small constrictor will eat one, and then go sleep it off for awhile...like days. Somehow, I doubt that's how the snake in the movie does it! Also, constrictors don't crush you. It's fun to demonstrate how they kill to kids. Have the kid breathe out deeply. At the end of the breath, push your hand below the kid's sternum and press. After a few breaths like that (and you increase the pressure each time), they'll be able to see that they couldn't breathe. That's what a constrictor does: tightens every time you take a breath. One other point: the anaconda in the movie is actually considerably =smaller= than some of the giant ones which have been reported and measured. No one has ever exhibited a living snake longer than thirty feet, but snakes have been reported which are more than three times that! Somehow, nobody manages to drag them back to civilization, though. On television, FX shows the OCTOBER THE THIRTY-SECOND episode of THE FALL GUY, which features a ghost buster and Elvira (no, there's no bust transition here!) at 5:00 PM on Wednesday. Artemis and James help a ghost in THE NIGHT OF THE MAN-EATING HOUSE episode of THE WILD, WILD WEST on Friday at 12:00 PM on TNT. The DISNEY CHANNEL has HARRY AND THE HENDERSONS (Spielberg's bigfoot movie, featuring John Lithgow of 3RD ROCK) on Monday at 7:00 PM. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. The GREAT MID ATLANTIC 50th ANNIVERSARY UFO SYMPOSIUM: Bethesda Ramada Inn; Saturday, May 3, 9 AM start; Investigator's workshop, Stan Friedman, Linda Howe, Bruce Maccabee, others; $35; Call 301-349-2434 for information. ONLINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. This Tuesday, from 7-8 Pacific, Bruce Maccabee, one of the best known analysts of UFO films and video will be on discussing his new book, UFOS ARE REAL: HERE'S THE PROOF*, co-authored with Ed Walters of Gulf Breeze fame. The site is also now listing archives of past chats...some people on this list have their talks immortalized there, worth checking out. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. You can listen to it on your computer, as well as on many radio stations: go to http://www.endoftheline.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? (They have now provided me with program summaries, which I greatly appreciate!) --week of 4/14: Episode #96-120: In COULD IT BE A MIRACLE, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: a woman talks to angels during an out of body experience and returns to life; a suicidal woman's faith is restored by a mysterious man who saves her life; an angel carries a sick boy to his parents' house so he can get the necessary treatment; the angel experts discuss their opinions on the miraculous; a figure in white appears and saves a young girl from a fire; because they are all mysteriously delayed, the members of a church choir narrowly miss being in an explosion. --week of 4/21, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: a mother's dream saves her baby from a terrible accident; a grandmother returns from the grave to give a new mother advice about her infant; a woman dreams her house is on fire. She calls to find that it is and is able to warn her family; a grandmother and a guardian angel visit a young girl in order to explain the grandmother's death; John sees a misty apparition float above his bed at the same moment his mother passes away; a ghost appearing in a French maid's costume warns three college roommates that their house is on fire. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 4/13, THE 13TH FLOOR: a possessed woman wants revenge on her husband; THE BELIEVER: psychic extortionist --week of 4/20, a fog blankets a prison when a special inmate arrives; poltergeists bugs arguing newlyweds Look for the SHOWTIME docu-drama on ROSWELL to show up on a local station for you this week (for instance, it's on Saturday at 6:00 PM on Channel 2 in the San Francisco Bay Area) Look for your local PBS station to run VAMPIRES IN NEW ENGLAND this week (channel 9 in San Francisco is running it Sunday at 10:45 PM) Saturday, April 19 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. All times and guests must be considered tentative...5:00 PM, Jeff Warren, expert on the effects of the moon on people; 5:30 PM, Charles Coulombe, on werewolves; 6:00 PM John Edward, psychic, returns...you can call 1-800-825-5188 during this half hour for a reading...remember, I list things in Pacific Time; 6:45, Patricia Collins, author of PSYCHIC NEW YORK*. 7:00 PM, Bill Hamilton and Tom King talk about the recent rash of incredible UFO sightings (and videos taken) in Arizona; 7:30 PM: Jim and Pat Fregia interpret dreams. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available. Brenda Roberts produces. 2:00 PM, CNN...there may be a segment on THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM in San Francisco 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CABINET OF CURIOUSITIES (a collection of weird stuff, including self-propelled stones in Death Valley, living neanderthals, and the toad-in-the-hole phenomenon...and no, the last one doesn't concern my back account) Sunday, April 20 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (how to photograph UFOs hiding in the sun's glare); THE MESSAGE! (upbeat talk from alien abductors); LOVE TIES (no, it's not what executives wore in the sixties...familiar bonds, actually) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS INDIA 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 3:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS: THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE--SECRETS REVEALED 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (how to photograph UFOs hiding in the sun's glare); THE MESSAGE! (upbeat talk from alien abductors); LOVE TIES (no, it's not what executives wore in the sixties...familiar bonds, actually) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (how to photograph UFOs hiding in the sun's glare); THE MESSAGE! (upbeat talk from alien abductors); LOVE TIES (no, it's not what executives wore in the sixties...familiar bonds, actually) Monday, April 21 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: "bottomless" hole in Washington...no, this is not a story on the budget :) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 4:00 AM, A&E, THE 20TH CENTURY: ARE WE ALONE? (nice bit on UFOs) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#19): ASTRAL PROJECTION; CRYSTAL HEALING; SCENTS OF SMELL (aromatherapy) Tuesday, April 22 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ARIZONA INDIANS AND UFOs in Gila Bend (no, they don't, at least not much), Arizona (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#20) : SWEET ADELAIDA, A GHOST STORY; SOUL JOURNEY (amerind afterlife beliefs); BEATING THE ODDS (challenged kids exceed expectations) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND Wednesday, April 23 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: the mysterious death of mystery novelist Eugene Izzy (or izn't he?) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#21): YOGA ART AND MEDICINE; SEDONA 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): Gulf Breeze, Florida, UFOs; prenatal communication; mystery lights in Texas (could be Marfa, could be Lubbock, etc.); "extraterrestrial life seeds", whatever that means; the haunting of Chillingham Castle; and seeing the future 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058: )Gulf Breeze, Florida, UFOs; prenatal communication; mystery lights in Texas (could be Marfa, could be Lubbock, etc.); "extraterrestrial life seeds", whatever that means; the haunting of Chillingham Castle; and seeing the future Thursday, April 24 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#22): DEAD SEA SCROLLS; HUMAN HIBERNATION; CITIES OF GOLD 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND Friday, April 25 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: I think it's Electronic Voice Phenomena...the use of machines to record dead voices, basically (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND 12:05 AM, ABC, POLITICALLY INCORRECT: one of the guests is noted skeptic, Joe Nickell...dang, I wanted to be the first "paranormal" guy on that show Oh, well. One more proof that the skeptics never get the press, as some of them keep complaining about ;) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#23): THE BLACK HOPE HORROR (poltergeist); UFO ABDUCTIONS; ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, WINGS, THE FLYING PANCAKES (were flying saucer sightings in the 1940's caused by these U.S. aircraft...gee, that's a toughie: no :) ) 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: a woman who claims to have been healed by a UFO...wouldn't surprise me if this is the Florida(?) councilperson(?) who came out as an abductee: can't recall her name right now. Of course, there are an amazing number of other folks it could be. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 NY 'Roswell Rock Concert' Promo Co. Balks over San From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:04:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:12:45 -0400 Subject: NY 'Roswell Rock Concert' Promo Co. Balks over San Found this on the site of Albuquerque Journal:=20 http://www.abqjournal.com/news/5news4-17.htm Date of publication:Thursday, 17-Apr-97 10:18:48 MDT=20 Roswell's UFO Party Wobbles Cult Spooks Sponsors From Festival's Concert, Television Bash By Leslie Linthicum Journal Staff Writer The Heaven's Gate cult mass suicide apparently has claimed another victim: An all-night rock concert and two-hour television special planned for the 50th anniversary celebration of the purported UFO crash in Roswell has fizzled, in part because potential sponsors were scared away by the deaths near San Diego last month. =20 The 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult committed suicide to shed their "human containers" and climb aboard an alien spacecraft they believed to be trailing the comet Hale-Bopp. =20 Heaven's Gate had no known link to Roswell or any of the events planned there this summer to commemorate the 1947 crash of an alleged flying saucer outside of Roswell, but it apparently spooked potential advertisers. "What we heard last week is that the companies are running scared because they don't want to be connected in any way, shape or form with the tragedy in San Diego," said Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell. =20 She said local organizers now are working on their own to find sponsors and acts for a scaled-down concert while the rest of the six-day festival is still a go. "It appears we were New Yorked to death," said Stan Crosby, Deon Crosby's husband and chairman of the Roswell UFO Encounters Committee, a team of volunteers putting on the festival. =20 The concert was being promoted by Track Marketing, a New York company. No one from the company returned calls Wednesday, and Stan Crosby said he has not heard from anyone at Track Marketing since the firm faxed him a letter releasing the UFO Encounters Committee from an exclusive sponsorship provision in their contract. That release allows the committee to seek local sponsors. Lee Heiman, a Track Marketing employee, told U.S. News & World Report magazine last month that the concert would last 12 hours and could include Bush, Sheryl Crow and the Foo Fighters as headliners. Tickets, he said, would cost $50. In addition, the Fox network wanted to produce a two-hour special, he said. =20 The Crosbys said Heiman had not signed any acts or sponsors as late as last week and did not have a television contract. The concert was scheduled for July 5. =20 Organizers are using the events of July 5, 1947, when a local ranch hand stumbled across some strange debris, to lure thousands of tourists to Roswell this summer. While debate still swirls over whether the debris was from a government weather balloon or an alien spacecraft, Roswell has become the unofficial hub of UFO hoopla. The 50th anniversary festival will run July 1-6, including symposiums, a film festival, a costume contest, tours of one of several purported crash sites and other activities. =20 Although the concert was to be a big draw, the Crosbys said it was not vital to the festival. =20 "A concert is a definite go," Deon Crosby said. "We just don't know how big it will be or its location." TOPCopyright =A9 1997 Albuquerque Journal =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Armen Victorian From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:33:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:22:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Armen Victorian >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:08:03 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Armen Victorian > > NO ARM-EN IT? > Some of the most astounding and startling evidence that >certain governments are privy to the existence and visitation of >extraterrestrial craft and/or their occupants to our planet, actually >come from official sources. These are either obtainable via the FOIA >(Freedom Of Information Act), a legitimate avenue of information, or >are obtained illegally, ie: through 'contacts' in certain sensitive >establishments that restrict the flow of information to 'protect the >public'. How considerate! It is a fact, however, that about 40% of >all released information on sensitive issues is in fact obtained >through dubious means. By dubious, I mean information received that >would never be admitted to by the authorities and that cannot be >backed up. Of course, a lot of it may have been 'accidentally' >released as disinformation exercises, really putting a spanner in the >works. [snip] >Jerry Anderson co-ordinator of UFOMEK Dear Mr. Anderson, I extend the same congratulations as I did to Fortean Times. I enjoyed reading your "accurate essay" enormously. Please do keep up the good work. The UFO field could benefit from your services. Those who are in the know, do know the accuracy of what I publish. Unfortunately they could be counted on the fingers of five people, who have shared the facts for decades. Once more thank you for a job well-done. We do not intend to hold any shares in the UFO industry and its public "Research" participants. Neither, are annoyed of what such forums expeculate based on convenient cover storries put out for their consumption. Hope to see your name, like others of "known fame" in large letters, and for public readership perhaps another 25 years or more before reaching the age of maturity and be ready for the facts. In the meantime, enjoy daily output of UFO stories. The above is not intended as ill-will to the famed, since they do deliver what their perception acquires to their customers to the best of their ability. Neither, are we prepared to enter into usual dosage of dialogue with the esteemed members of the UFO industry. Thanks again for your help. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:06:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:24:43 -0400 Subject: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing Based on information and facts before us, I consider the chances of success for Greer and his team extremely slim, if not, non-existent. My notion is not to strike a negative note. It would not come as a surprise to see his collective efforts toyed with for a while, and manuvered into divertive avenues, several of which open as options. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:24:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:10:28 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method: Does It Apply To UFOs? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:08:57 -0400 (EDT) >To: area51@lists.best.com >cc: updates@globalserve.net, iufo@world.std.com >Subject: The Scientific Method Does It Apply To UFOs? >This very same thing is going on in the UFO field. Not only do we have >intelligent human operatives moving the so called stakes around to confuse >the civilian investigator, you have the UFO phenomena doing this also to both >the civilians and the better informed intelligence operatives. Also, from a science standpoint, when you know 95% of how a process works, you make a theory that explains the other unknown 5%. From an intelligence point of view, the 95% is worthless because it is what the other party released, and is the information ~they~ want you to believe. -------------------------====### legal notice ###====--------------------- Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any form, in whole or in part. A license to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for 500$. Posting without permission constitutes an agreement to this terms. E-mail: karel@worldonline.nl (Karel Bagchus) WWW: http://www.worldonline.nl/~karel Search for other documents from or mentioning: karel | edkomarek |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: More help for Philip..... From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:21:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:15:21 -0400 Subject: Re: More help for Philip..... > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:53:02 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO DOCUMENTS > Dear colleagues, Does anyone out there have any of the official > documents relating the l956 radar/visual encounters over RAF > Lakenheath, Suffolk, England. If you have then please contact me > as soon as possible. I recommend you visit http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/aiaa10.htm which is a complete presentation on the Lakenheath case. There are a number of other worthwhile documents accessible at http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing, and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 19 Ed Dames Military Records From: ufojoe@juno.com (Joe Murgia) (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:04:43 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:52:03 -0400 Subject: Ed Dames Military Records To Insiders UFO list: (comment: if Ed Dames really can do anything, let him find the missing A-10 aircraft.) ___________________________________________________________________________ Hey Everybody! I finally was able to view Ed Dames' military records the other day. I must say I was impressed when I first read them. Could I have misjudged Mr. Dames? Was he really second in command (Joni's comment in Paul's 1st paragraph) in the RV unit at Ft. Meade as Joni had written? Well, since I wasn't there when all of this happened, I decided to send Paul Smith some high-lites of Ed's records. I asked him if he could shed some light on the subject. I also asked Lyn Buchanan but I haven't asked him yet if I could share his response with all of you. I will do that later and forward you his response if he okays it. Lyn basically says similar things to Paul's message. After I read Ed's performance evaluation and remembered how some of my performance reviews were written, I had a hunch that a lot of the things written in Ed's review were put in to boost his reputation for future promotions. In my reviews, I get credit for things that I've never done! My reviews at my job read like a tribute to ufojoe. I have actually asked my boss to write at least one negative thing so I had something to work at in the future. As you will see, it looks like Ed got credit for things he didn't do either. That's is not bad or evil on Ed's part, it's just the way the system works. And that goes for the other viewers as well as you will see. It seems to me from reading other CRVers' responses that Ed seems to put more stock in his records than the others. Draw your own conclusions from what Paul writes. One more thing. The one thing that bugged me is that one of you sent me an email telling me that Ed's miltary records were on Psi-Tech's site and that they had looked at them. They said that the records say Ed briefed the President during his military tour. I read the records and they DON'T say that! The records say that he briefed some higher ups in the military and U.S. Government and THOSE HIGHER UPS in turn, briefed the President, NOT Ed. See Ya, Joe Murgia ufojoe@juno.com P.S. - I made one correction in Paul's second response. He included an excerpt from my first email which had the dates of each performance evaluation. I had written down 1997 instead of 1987. I corrected that below and now it reads correctly. I just didn't want to confuse anybody like I'm doing right now so just ingnore this paragraph and read on... ******************* Joe-- I am probably in the best position of anyone to respond to this issue, as I and Ed were contemporaries while captains at the Ft. Meade RV program. >As a result, we have posted Ed's military records. These >official documents clearly state that he was second in command of the RV >unit, and that he was the Operations & Training officer, amonst other >things. These records prove that the other RVers were not telling the >truth..." We are dealing here with only two sorts of military records--annual officer efficiency reports (OERs) and award presentations. An OER is a Department of the Army form that includes blocks for job description, evaluation of personal character traits, evaluations from the rated officer's supervisor, and an additional evaluation from the officer's "senior rater"--usually the supervisor's supervisor. Nearly EVERYone's OER (unless the officer has really messed up) tends to be fairly hyperbolic in verbiage--in effect, everyone is "above average." There are even lists of suggested words that are often provided to raters so they won't sell their subordinates short by using inadequately grandiose terms. Everyone's writeups sound absolutely wonderful--mine sound a lot like Ed's. The fact is, during his time assigned he probably WAS for a year or so the deputy commander of the unit. What being deputy commander means is that, if anything happens while the boss is away YOU get blamed for it. Beginning in January of 1988, my OERs list me as serving as deputy commander myself. It wasn't a big deal, it wasn't a little deal. It was just a job that didn't demand much--especially in as laid back an outfit as we were in. But as far as this goes, I think Ed is probably telling the truth about it. As far as being operations and training officer--well, until Skip Atwater retired,in December '87 HE was the chief operations and training officer--and had been during the entire ten years of the unit's existence, since long before Ed Dames even knew it existed. Ed functioned as AN operations and training officer--he DID play a primary role in scheduling sessions and the use of the RV rooms for training and ops (I have dozens of scheduling calendars with Ed's handwriting all over them). He DID conduct collection projects; he DID perform first stage analysis on data collected. But again, starting in January 1988 my own OER job-description blocks show me as being operations and training officer also. Now, while I DID get involved in some operations management (which is what an operations officer does), and while I was primarily responsible to conduct CRV theory training and assist with training sessions, I was otherwise almost exclusively a viewer, and make no other claim to the operations and training officer title. Ed WAS primarily engaged in operations and training--but whether he was the chief of these two functions is debatable. During the time there was a GS-13 and a GS-14 on board, both of whom had major responsibilities for ops and training, and who might dispute the question with Ed as to who was in charge of whom. This brings us to award citations and recommendations. Each award consists of a recommendation, which includes several paragraphs explaining why the person ought to receive the award, plus a justification and a proposed citation. The citation is what appears on the actual award certificate when it is presented. In Ed Dame's case, there is only one award that is relevant to remote viewing--a Joint Service Commendation Medal, which is equivalent to an Army Commendation Medal, and is the lowest rung of the award structure for joint assignments. [The next up is the Defense Meritorious Service Medal (equivalent to an Army Commendation Medal); what's up from there I don't recall at the moment--it wasn't relevant for ANY of us anyway:-)] Ed's award covered the period of his official, full-time assigment to Sun Streak--January 1986 to June 1988. The interesting thing is that Dave Morehouse wrote this award in June of 1990, while he and Ed were still friends. I remember Dave talking about this at the time. He was quite annoyed that the unit chain-of-command failed to write Ed an award two years before at the time Ed transferred to a new unit. Dave had a point. While awards are not automatic, they are important to advancement, so it is unusual for an officer to leave a unit without SOME sort of "end-of-tour" award. I myself don't know why the branch chief didn't write up an award for Ed. He was a civilian and perhaps not that well versed in managing military officers; or it may have been that he was dissatisfied with some of the somewhat "irregular" things Ed had been involved in concerning remote viewing. He didn't share his reasoning with us very often. At any rate, Dave decided Ed ought to have an award, so he wrote one up and by-passed the branch chief by making friends with the awards clerk and getting it into the system at our higher headquarters (there is nothing particularly illegitimate about this--within certain limitations Army regulations allow any military member with knowledge of another military member's achievements to put that person in for an award; but it is frowned upon to keep the chain-of-command in the dark about it). Since Mel Riley was retiring shortly, Dave wrote up an award for him as well. Then Dave wrote one for himself. The way one can tell is that, first, the verbiage is identical over major portions of all three award recommendations. The Dames and Riley award recommendations were both signed by CPT Dave Morehouse, on 8 June and 1 June 1990, respectively. Morehouse's award recommendation (remember, almost identical verbiage) was signed by the deputy director of the RV unit's next higher headquarters--the awards clerk's boss--on 27 June 1990. In an interesting sidelight, in the award recommendations he wrote Morehouse credited himself with 1200 operational RV missions (after a total, including training time, of 24 months in the program). But he credited Mel Riley--who had a total of EIGHT YEARS with the unit, with only 1000 RV missions. From my own experience at Ft. Meade, I suspect the total for Mel was probably pretty close to reality, if perhaps a shade low from what he actually did. However, after allowing six months to reach operational status (which would be quite fast for an estimate), Morehouse would have at most 18 months to attain his claimed totals--you can do the math yourself, but it works out to more than three RV sessions a day for a typical work month (we didn't work on weekends). Anybody who actually does RV knows that somebody must be smoking something to make a claim like this! But I seriously digress; this is about Ed Dames' documentation, not Dave Morehouse. The bottom line is that Dames actually deserves at least a little credit for some of the rather souped-up claims in his award and his OERs. Though he sometimes got off on strange tangents as far as the military was concerned, he was usually a productive, contributing member of the unit. But he is being disingenuous if he is really asking people to take all that stuff too seriously; the documents are riddled with half-truths, exaggerations, and boiler-plate statements that crop up in the documentation of ALL of us who spent time at the unit (for example, stuff about cutting training time by half, 200% increase in operational efficiency, increases in training/operational mission load, etc.)--or any Army unit, for that matter, since hype rules in the promotion game. Particularly in the case of Ed's award, much of what is said in there has some anchor in the real world; but some of it--particularly concerning the database--really belongs to others, in this case Lyn Buchanan. Well, this is probably not going to resolve anything, just make matters worse. But I wanted you all to know that there IS a middle ground. Ed is not the monster some make him out to be; but he's also far from being a god. Paul ***************************** Another response, from Paul Smith, to specific portions of Ed's records, follows: ***************************** Guys-- After having sent out my previous post on Ed's documentation, I'll go through this and add what I can. At 08:31 PM 4/15/97 EDT, Joe Murgia wrote: >The award in question says that Ed briefed some higher ups in the government >including the Office of The Secretary of Defense. Those higher ups, in turn, >briefed the President, NOT ED. Toldjaso! >Performance & Potential Evaluation from 01-31-86 to 1-30-87. >Reason for submission is listed as Annual > >The senior rater listed on the form is Jack Vorona > >The rater listed on the form is William G. Ray > > > >"...The most effective officer in grade and time in service with whom I >have ever worked..." This line is in my OER from the same period as well. Bill liked to take shortcuts with admin stuff; he knew no one would ever see both OERs together at Dept.of the Army. >"...Operationally, the rating period has been the most productive in the >unit's/project's history. He developed and successfully implemented a >training program which cut by more than half the amount of time required >to bring newly assigned personnel up to the operational level. This feat >is a milestone in the history of the technology employed by this project. >Not stopping with training innovations, he pioneered additional advanced >intelligence collection techniques which have facilitated deeper and more >rapid access to a wide range of targets..." Yup. This one is in mine too. And probably in a couple of others--maybe even in Lyn's. >************************************* >Next performance evaluation is from 09-06-87 to 01-19-88 >Reason for submission is listed as Change of Rater > >The senior rater listed on the form is Jack Vorona > >The rater listed on the form is William A. Yenakis > > > >"...Serves as Deputy Project Manager, Training Officer and Assistant >Operations Office for a DoD special access program. Responsible >for developing and teaching the skills required to utilize on of DoD's >most technically complex intelligence tools. Plans and Conducts >intelligence operations in support of national requirements..." > >"...Has a clear grasp of what he expects from his subordinates and >constantly works with them to better develop their professionalism..." This does indeed sound like Xenakis' writing. >"...During this rating period CPT Dames participated as Team Chief in >eleven critical intelligence collection operations which provided >information unattainable from any other intelligence collection system. >Particularly noteworthy were reports he produced in support of >operational missions..." Note that Team Chief is not chief of training and ops. Teams were formed around a monitor/analyst and three +/- viewers for a specific collection project. Ed was chief of 11 of these. This is no mean feat. >"...As training officer he has greatly increased the capabilities of his >collection team while maintaining a high level of team morale. A >superlative manager, he strikes the best balance of personnel and >mission-accomplishment to maximize mission performance and minimize >personnel turbulence..." Average writing for a rater's block. >"...His leadership abilities could best be utilized in command of a >Military Intelligence field office or detachment..." Standard boilerplate "potential" recommendations. >"...His enthusiasm and drive have revitalized his unit's training >program. He conducted a record number of training and advanced training >missions, at the same time conducting 20 intelligence collection >operations during the course of the rating period. This resulted in a 200 >percent increase in the quantity of intelligence collection operations >performed with a corresponding increase in the quality of those >operations. Highly versatile, a brilliant leader, performs exceptional >well in a many-faceted job...." Several others of us had similar things in our ratings; this result could not be accomplished in a vacuum--it was a team effort. Ed was involved, and got credit for it, along with the rest of us. >"...He should continue to be placed in positions of increased >responsibility and command in the human intelligence/counterintelligence >arena..." More boilerplate. >>From the Joint Service Commendation - Narrative (Was he in the RV unit >at this time or is this from another unit?) What follows is somewhat perplexing. It is the award narrative for the JSCM that Dave Morehouse wrote for Ed covering the period Jan 86 to Jun 88. But the dates are obviously wrong here. The first date is actually around the date that Ed left the RV unit. The last date is two years after Ed had left the RV unit and gone on to another "black" unit. I'm trying my best not to think someone purposely changed dates, but I've gone over this in my mind several times and cannot figure out a way how it might have happened by accident. >"...Captain Edward A. Dames, United States Army, distinguished himself by >meritorious service while assigned to the Defense Intelligence Agency, >Directorate of Scientific and Technical Intelligence from 07 June 1988 to >01 June 1990..." > >"...Additionally, Captain Dames, recognizing a need for a more effective >unit data processing system, personally designed and implemented a new >system of collection, recording and analysis. This system provided a >substantive degree of error reduction and an enhanced final analytical >intelligence product. Captain Dames personally engineered techniques >enhanced productivity and reduced the inherent conflict associated with >coordinating a highly sophisticated and esoteric discipline. Captain >Dames pioneered new and creative training protocols, the impact of which >effected revolutionary improvements upon the future and potential of the >very unique mission in which he was involved. His skills as an >administrator, leader and an intelligence collector proved to be >invaluable..." See my other post for comments on the above. The following has nothing to do with the RV unit. Ed was awarded this MSM for a very real and successful intel operation he promulgated while assigned to SED; it did not, however, involve remote viewing. >>From the Meritorious Service Medal - First Oak Leaf Cluster > >To Captain Edward A. Dames > >"For Distinguishing himself by outstanding meritorious achievement as >targeting and analysis officer, United States Army Systems Exploitation >Detachment, from June 1983 to November 1984. CPT Dames identified a new >and unique Soviet weapons program. The national security implications of >CPT Dames' findings have been characterized by top US policy makers as >revolutionary, and were briefed by him to officials in all the national >intelligence agencies, The Secretary of the Army, The Office of the >Secretary of Defense, and members of the National Security Council and >Congress, who subsequently briefed the President of the United States..." TTTHAT'S ALL, FOLKS! Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 The Temporal Doorway UFO Update - Mid April From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:35:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:07:26 -0400 Subject: The Temporal Doorway UFO Update - Mid April Things have not been quiet in the UFO area of The Temporal Doorway. I have restructured the more than 20 medical effects cases in the paper on Eye and Skin Irritation in UFO Cases (the paper has also been reorganized). Those cases have each been given a separate page, with more detail for many of them. Each case is linked back to the new Guide to UFO Classification systems, which features a complete breakdown of the Hynek system and both Vallee systems, so that you can see how a case is categorized in all three systems. Related cases are linked, and more of these cross references will be added as time permits. Additional cases have been added, including the famous Vins sighting and the Exeter sighting. The cases are also accessible through the chronological catalog, which shows the cases by the date on which they occurred. Expect more cases to be added in the near future, along with other catalogs, and a research paper in progress that will examine UFO luminosity in more detail. Don't forget to have a look at the paper on the common structural feature found in multiple UFO reports (5 cases now, 1949-1967, including Spaur / Neff), and the studies of UFO luminosity from the Lucci and Tulsa case photos. Feel free to visit the UFO information section "The Window" directly at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ufo.htm or visit the entire site and enjoy the art and writing at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway Original digital art, writing, and research on Unidentified Flying Objects mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:03:16 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 >Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >Organization: Welt am Draht >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump > > > >Hello! > >Here's something we retrieved for you: > >---------------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- > > >Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 > >By Robert Uhlig, Technology correspondent >It is official. UFO's do not exist, aliens have never visited Earth and >all flying saucer sightings are now referred by the military to private >organisations, the American Defense Department said yesterday. Might I say, here, that it is a matter of TERMINOLOGY! UFO's, as we all know is a generic term used simply to describe an UNKNOWN FLYING OBJECT...Let me state here, before we get involved in semantics, that the "U" is stated to stand for UNIDENTIFIED...which very well fits in with UNKNOWN... Ok, with that out of the way, yes, UFO'S in the sense that the Military and the Scientific circles view them DO NOT EXIST. This has become a term used by the "UN-INITIATED." By that, I mean those "outside" the "official" circle of Military/Scientific/Political need to knowers! These insiders, very definitely "KNOW" what the Phenomena IS! They have had at least 50 years of "HANDS ON HARDWARE," investigation, while maintaining a wall of deception and misdirection around their innermost secrets. Not only does the above mentined circle protect their secret, but many PERSONALITIES within the UFO public research community HELP them do so. These people are inserted DEEP within the TRUST THRESHOLD of the UFO Community...They are a part of our everyday messaging on the Internet and BBS echos. They are always available to us when we are in need of proping up, after a dismal week, month, or year of personal research. These people pass themselves off as our friends and collogues. But, I tell you, they are neither. They are working with the M/S/P groups, to maintain the THRESHOLD OF CONFUSION. We all know and have known for years, that basically every major UFO Organization which has ever existed in this country has been compromised by agents from various Intelligence organizations. One of the best examples of the was NICAP. Not only was it compromised, but it eventually was disbanded because of this interaction. If there was nothing but utter foolishness associated with this phenomena, why would such things occurr? Are the powers that be, so paranoid, that they fear that average, god fearing, loyal citizens of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, as well as other countries and provinces throughout the world are going to riot and attempt to overthrow governments because of science fiction? This Paranoia, IS IN MY OPINION, directly responsible for such things as: >The announcement was prompted by the suicide of 39 members of the Heaven's >Gate cult in California who killed themselves because they believed their >souls would be transported to eternal life on a spaceship following the >Hale-Bopp comet. Had there been resopsible leadership in OUR GOVERNMENT from the beginning, these type of situations would not and could not have occurred. Instead, the Intelligence agencies have used the Paranoia and Superstition of the various CULTS and FRINGE GROUPS, to foster an attitude of SOCIAL IMMATURITY and IGNORANCE, among the general populace. You have been had PEOPLE! While you continue to PROVE their point, by continually aruging and fighting over the reality of this and that piece of UFO information,, i.e., video tapes of lights in the sky....alien body autopsies....implants, abductions, etc., they continue to foster the image of SOCIAL SCHIZOPHRENIA, or DIMENTIA in the Public Media...Are they Wrong? Take a good look at this attitude, which WE as INQUIRING MINDS project into the PUBLIC and SCIENTIFIC/POLITICAL ARENA, and see if they are wrong! Get it together PEOPLE!!! Quit giving them ammunition to use against US. Apply the scientific methodolgy to your investigations as well as communications. We don't have to convince the M/S/P Archivists of the reality of this phenomena, WE HAVE TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC AND THE MEDIA! The only way we can do that is to become PROFESSIONAL in the WAY we handle this information. REmember, (for those of you who wonder why I always capatilize the RE - at the beginning of many words; RE simply means "AGAIN.") The Military as well as the Scientific and Political spokesmen, NEVER LIE, THEY JUST DENY! By using this technique, it fosters the desired response in the laymen in this field. Usually one of indignity, and outrage. Just the type of behaviour they want. It solidifies their position with the media and those in the public sector who think we are UFO NUTS or UFO CULTISTS, anyway. This attitude must be changed! We have to present ourselves before the public, in a way which is respectable and organized! Do you think that the news headlines: "Thousands of UFO enthusists march on Area-51!" or "UFO BELIEVERS MARCH ON WASHINGTON DEMANDING THE TURTH!"; while dressed in militia and stupid science fiction garb from X-Files, or StarTrek, or anyother Sci-Fi program is going to add credence to what we are attempting to do? when you read of the Heaven's Gate suicide, what was your immediate reaction? Sympathy? Regret? Or, Stupid Bastards! ????? You must examine yoursleves to answer that question... But, at the same time, remember, that the PUBLIC AND THE MEDIA world wide, see basically the same type of picture when they see these mass demonstrations by "CRAZY UFO NUTS" as mentioned above! We MUST CLEAN UP OUR ACTS, People. Do you see the military parading around in a haphazzard fashion when they move into take control of a situation...the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? NO! They plan their movements and practice them until they have them down PAT! Then and only then, do they move in, along with their support groups, i.e. the Air and in many cases Sea Power, depending where the action is. >From a civilizian's point of view, I'm sure many think they are acting in an unprofessional manner. But they are not. Sure, sometimes, even the best laid plans go astray...however, they usually regroup and correct that situation. Do the Scientists make "unfounded" statments regarding "new life forms" discovered somewhere, without spending thousands of hours researching the "finds"? No. Some rogue scientist may take it on himnself/herself to make statments, which they cannot backup or which can not be proven or substantiated by the Scientific Community...these Rogue Scientists, usually garner the ire of their fellow scientists and are considered outcasts and unreliable from that point on. We need only watch the daily news to see the confusion within the Political parties of this and other countries. How could we hope to obtain reliable information, or "FACTS," from these groups, who are so unstable that they daily crucify one and then another of their inner circles to gain more personal power for themselves? No, my Brothers and Sisters, we cannot look to any of the above for the answers we seek. Likewise, we cannot become angry and react like militia and right wing factions to achieve the desired results. We must behave in a Professional Manner. We must show those powers which currently look down on us as well as the public and the media that we are indeed responisble and worthy of attention. Once we do that, we will gather the information we are seeking. Yes, first images are important. Let us cloth ourselves in this aura of Self Respectability. When we appear befor the Media, let us be dignified. It is easy enough for them to "edit our words," and make us look like fools when we speak to them. Do you wish to be protrayed as "beer drinking miscreants? Is this how the M/S/P present themsleves before the media? Think about it. >"We cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's and we are not harbouring >remains of UFO's" department spokesman Ken Bacon said. Again, decern the wording here... Notice that they did not say: physical hardware. They did not say technology. They said: "UFO'S!" >Convinced there was no extra-terrestrial threat, the Pentagon has long >since stopped recording of UFO sightings, Mr Bacon said. But enormous >public interest in the existence of intelligent extra-terrestrial life has >been fuelled by television programmes such as "The X Files" and hundreds of >Internet sites addressing the topic. Yet this opens the doors to the "TERRESTRIAL" Threat! I have long held that the things wer are viewing in the "skys" above is 90 per cent Earth Developed Technology. The wording here props up my opinion. REmember, it is critical that we "read what is being said...what is on the page...not project into it our own definitions." Here someone closes the statments by inflaming the Sci-Fi crowd by claiming that this interest in "intelligent extra-terrestrial life" has been fueled by TV programs such as the X-Files AND INTERNET SITES. Before, it was B-movies from theaters and TV which proped up their arguement. So much of the interest in this phenomena comes from direct experience; either personal sightings of anomalous events which the person could not explain. It is another attempt at "an end run," or "misdirection." Please pay attention people. >Of 12,618 reported UFO sightings investigated by the US Air Force between >1947 and 1969, none "represented technological developments or principles >beyond the range of our scientific knowledge," Mr Bacon said. But, what they are not saying, is that those other xxx. number of sightings which could not be explained away so easlily was NEVER discussed by the Air Force via Project Blue Book or anyother public medium. Yet, these sightings were passed on to other intelligence gathering groups for study out from the sight of the public. >No UFO reported, investigated or evaluated posed a threat to America and >there was no evidence that the UFO's were extra-terrestrial vehicles, he >added. Here again, the word UFO is the key. The follow up, that there was no threat posed to "America," is significant. It tends to say that whatever was seen and reported was more than likely, either developed by America or some country friendly to America. No evidence that "UFOs were extra-terrestrial vehicles" again strengthens my Earth Technology theory. >Most sightings of supposed UFO's could be explained either by weather >conditions, such as lightning or unusual cloud formations, or by aircraft >movements, he said. > >Ends. What is the key word here? "MOST"! Not all, or some, but MOST of the sightings could be explained. Here again, they have more than admitted that there is more to this sentence than they wish to admit. So, my brothers and sisters, let us vow, not to be ensnared by their plans. Let us maintain a ballanced composure and document our research, as well as posts to others. We should alway maintain a database, or backup of our material just in case we are ever called upon to "prove" our contentions. By creating our database, we can, if necessary, years later, pull up our letter to "someone" and show that we did indeed make an attempt to verify or document a case. The shoe then falls back in their corner. Be patient, but per presistent. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: UFOs brought to earth with a bump From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:40:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:58:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:44:55 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 >>Subject: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >>Organization: Welt am Draht >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time >>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFOs brought to earth with a bump >>Hello! >>Here's something we retrieved for you: >>--------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- >>Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 >[snip] >>"We cannot substantiate the existence of UFO's and we are not >>harbouring remains of UFO's" department spokesman Ken Bacon said. ....snip.... JC: A momentary interjection if I may. Sounds to me like you're arguing over semantics. I don't mean to be repetitious, but .... reading the following, previous post in its entirety (i.e. following its links) on the web would certainly help us understand how the Air Force arrived at its conclusion. Anyone, anywhere... reading this and disagreeing, please feel free to write this list and tell us about it. It's all painstakingly documented, footnoted (i.e. checkable), accurate history. Web address given to avoid printing the whole thing here again. It will flow better there anyway. >----start here---- Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/apr/m07-002.shtml >-----end here---- Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:50:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:50:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:06:06 -0400 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Project Starlight-Greer recent briefing >Based on information and facts before us, I consider the >chances of success for Greer and his team extremely slim, >if not, non-existent. My notion is not to strike a negative >note. I found it odd, as well, that Greer had touted, originally, the inclusion of "Guy Kirkwood" as one of his "military witnesses." The story has been out, thanks to Don Ecker, on what "Kirkwood" really is for years. Isn't it strange that Greer, et al, did no checking on his witnesses BEFORE rounding them up for the Washington gig? We have noted that "Kirkwood" fell out of the formation because of "death threats." It is more likely that, I would wager, that the true nature and identity of "Kirkwood" was brought to CSETI's attention, and he was hastily dropped from Greer's entourage. The "death threats" were probably more of a threat to the death of "Kirkwood"'s little circus act than to his life. This begs to wonder, as well, just how stable the rest of Greer's witness pool is. I believe that a complete investigative dossier would need to be compiled on each before rushing of to Congress with unchecked statements and assertions. It is a shame to see Mitchell associated with this official-looking, yet apparently questionable group. >It would not come as a surprise to see his collective >efforts toyed with for a while, and manuvered into divertive >avenues, several of which open as options. Agreed. We already know what the First Lady, and apparently the President, think of the endeavors of UFOlogy. I would like to see a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this been provided? Anyone know? Onward into the fog.... Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Arizona sightings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:21:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:26:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 03:37:29 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings > Hiya Don, hi All, Snipped for brevity. Those things are flying low.(snip) No 'airshow' or commercial craft are > permitted under 500ft over residential areas that I know of. At least > that's the rule here in NY, I would imagine it's applicable nation wide. > (Pilots, please correct me if wrong) Hi John and List members, Further to my reply to John Velez regarding controlled airspace, I just ran across an item at The National UFO Reporting Center at: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/ Click on the second or third item on the first page about the statement made by an ATC (Air Traffic Controller) concerning his involvement during several UFO reports to tower by aircraft and one sherriff. He explains a good deal about airspace and regulations. This could be of some help to Tom if he cares to press his case. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:35:05 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 16 April 20, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor RADAR IMAGES AND NORAD ALERT STIR UFO BUFFS Thursday, April 17, proved to be an exciting day for the UFO community. First came the incredible report that a U.S. satellite, GOES-9, had photographed "a very large anomalous object" over central Alaska at 1500 Zulu or 8 a.m. Pacific time. Immediately the GOES-9 image was posted on several Websides, and the news spread like wildfire through the Internet. A second GOES-9 image, recorded at 8:30 a.m., showed that the "anomalous object" had flown south and was now just west of the northern coast of Vancouver Island. The 1530 Zulu (8:30 a.m.) image also showed "an anomalous object of the same size" over the Pacific Ocean approximately 50 miles west of San Francisco. A third GOES-9 image, taken at 1600 Zulu (9 a.m.), showed the San Francisco object gone and the first object back in Alaska, near Glenallen. A fourth GOES-9 image, taken at 1800 Zulu (11 a.m.) registered a new object "half the size of the first two" hovering over Colorado. The first two objects were described as "square or rectangular" and an estimated 25 miles (40 kilometers) long. At 2 p.m., the Federal Bureau of Investigation issued a "heads up" alert, citing "a potential threat" to the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) center at Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado, 65 miles (104 kilometers) south of Denver. Maj. Gen. Jeff Grime, CO of Cheyenne Mountain, said there was no threat to the nearby city of Colorado Springs or to any other military facility in the area, adding, "It's totally focused at us here." Rumors circulated that NORAD had "gone to DEFCON-4 (Defense Condition #4) in response to the presence of the "anomalous objects" found by GOES-9. Maj. Gen. Grime told the media that extra precautionary security was needed to protect the 1,100 personnel at the base. Security measures included cancellation of public tours at the center, erection of barricades on the access roads, and a 24-hour-guard on the maintenance portal on the south side of the mountain. The "lockdown" was carried out by 80 troops of the 721st Security Police Squadron. According to the Reuter story, NORAD spokeswoman Frankie Webster "declined to discuss the nature of the security concerns or say whether they were related to the April 19 anniversaries of the Oklahoma City bombing or the 1993 siege at Waco, Texas. She said the (U.S.) Air Force took the action Tuesday after it learned of possible security concerns, but she provided no details." Maj. Steve Boylan, U.S. Army, a spokesman for the U.S. Space Command, said the alert "had nothing whatsoever to do" with the A-10 fighter-bomber missing since April 2. (See related story in this issue.) Meanwhile, Web speculation about the GOES-9 "anomalous objects" reached fever pitch by Friday, April 18. The "objects" were variously described as Borg starships, UFOs containing cult leaders David Koresh and Marshall Herff Applewhite, and landing craft from the "Hale Mary," the UFO alleged to have followed the Hale-Bopp comet last winter. The GOES-9 images were removed from their main Website Friday morning, which increased the anxiety and speculation. That afternoon, a scientist explained that the "objects" were glitches in the satellite's software. The images were caused by "data drop," which is clearly shown by the "digital noise on one side of the image." Peter B. Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle said his group was "satisfied" with this explanation for the "anomalous objects." CRESCENT-SHAPED UFO SEEN OVER WASHINGTON, D.C. On Thursday, April 3, 1997, at 8:15 p.m., a federal employee and two friends spotted "dark, crescent-shaped object" flying over Washington, D.C., heading east. Eyewitness Mark Bielaski said, "We saw the object, very strange, no lights or sound, but you could see it clearly outlined. We were out staring at the comet, and there it was." Mark added that he "had a better view of the object because it was really big. I really couldn't tell how big it was because it seemed to be above the clouds. I've watched jets fly in and out of Andrews (air force base) and I know how big they are. And this had to be bigger than any of those. I wouldn't have thought anything of the object except for the fact that it made no noise and had no lights. The shape reminded me of a B-2, but it was too curved--almost like seeing the (crescent) moon but bigger." (Email Interview) UFOs ACTIVE IN IOWA On the afternoon of Tuesday, April 8, Kenneth W. was driving on Interstate-80 in Coralville, Iowa (population 7,687), about 140 miles (224 kilometers) east of Des Moines when "a shiny disc appeared in the sky northwest of me," near Tiffin. "I watched it through my prescription sunglasses until the sun blinded me," he said. "It first moved slowly, like a floating Mylar balloon, but against the northwest wind. It came to a halt and was still shining and disc-like. It then began moving again, and its skin turned to a frosty gray. But I watched it for about five minutes total. Finally, the gray dot appeared to gain altitude and speed away into the northwest sky. At one point during its hover, I saw a glimpse of red in the middle." (Email Interview) On Sunday night, April 13, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., Jeff Roberts and another seven eyewitnesses were standing outdoors in Ankeny, Iowa (population 15,429) about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Des Moines when they spied "a V-shaped chartreuse object" in the sky. Roberts described the UFO as "shaped like a crown on a king," i.e. W-shaped. Witnesses then saw a second UFO "shaped like a cigar" and a third "that was only visible through binoculars" and "moved in a counter-clockwise rotation." Red, blue and yellow lights were reported. The UFOs remained visible until 4:30 a.m. on Monday, April 14. Investigating this case is Beverly Trout of MUFON Iowa. (Many thanks to Tim Edwards for this story.) (Editor's Note: For Jeff Roberts, this is his second sighting of 1997. On February 20, while on a visit home, Jeff and his father spotted a UFO near Canon City, Colorado.) SIGHTINGS REPORTED IN ALABAMA On Friday, April 11, 1997, Ace Smathers was doing some outdoor work when he noticed "a bright white light" overhead near his home in northern Alabama. It was "too low and too bright for a star," he said, "It remained in the same spot for 30 minutes. When looking (at it) through binoculars, it appeared like a diamond in the light--a full array of colors. After a while, it began to fade out and became dimmer as if moving away fast." The UFO completely disappeared after five minutes. Ace wants to know if anyone else north of Birmingham observed a similar UFO. (Email Interview) Five days later, on Wednesday, April 16, 1997, the newspaper, the Fairhope, Ala. Courier reported UFO visitations in Baldwin County. Fairhope (population 7,286) is on the eastern shore of Mobile Bay, about 16 miles (28 kilometers) southeast of Mobile. The town is also 45 miles (72 kilometers) west of the UFO hotspots of Pensacola and Gulf Breeze, Florida. On April 9, 1997, at 11 p.m., a Fairhope man was driving on County Road 32 with his girlfriend when he saw "a strange object floating just above the trees." Later that night, at 1 a.m., April 10, when he returned home, he saw the same UFO "hovering over a line of trees behind his house. He grabbed his video camera and shot a couple of minutes of footage of the strange object." The UFO appeared "to move back and forth like a balloon. An illuminated undercarriage formed a slight crescent shape, with a shadowy, cone-shaped structure that tapered up to another set of lights, to white-green lights, below and on either side of a flashing red light. An artist's rendering of the videotape looks...rather like a pyramid with a rectangular base, with white lights at each point of the base, two light green one near the top, and a large red one at the top." The UFO appeared again in Fairhope the night of April 11, at about 11 p.m., looking like "a blob of light capped with a single flashing red light," and was videotaped again by the witness. (See the Fairhope Courier for April 16, 1997, page 1, "UFO? No One Knows." Many thanks to Steve Wilson Jr. for sending this news story.) BLACK HELICOPTERS ON THE PROWL IN THREE STATES More UFO sightings were reported in Arizona last week. A UFO was seen in Tucson on April 12, followed by a brief overflight in "orange sphere" UFOs in Phoenix and two of the city's suburbs, Chandler and Coolidge on April 14. Two days later, on April 16, a UFO was spotted hovering above South Mountain, just south of Phoenix. On April 16, a flight of black helicopters circled the home of UFO investigator Tom King in Phoenix. A month ago, on March 13, Tom recorded on video the six "orange sphere" UFOs seen hovering above the Gila River Indian Reservation. Grabbing his video camera, Tom taped the black helicopters as they flew past his house, just above rooftop level. A clip, posted on several Websites, shows three UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters against a backdrop of blue desert sky. No numbers or insignia are visible on the three aircraft. On Wednesday, April 16, and Thursday, April 17, several homeowners in Holly, Michigan (population 4,874) sighted a flight of black helicopters above Hickory Ridge Road. On Friday, April 18, at 2:30 p.m., Sharolyn Stenger, a member of Skywatch International, had a black helicopter encounter. "I was mowing the backyard," Ms. Stenger reported. "At about 2:35 p.m. I heard, over the noise of the mower, a very loud helicopter. I shaded my eyes and looked up to see a black or gunmetal gray chopper coming from the south" towards her home in Arlington, Texas, midway between Dallas and Fort Worth. "Just as it got over our house, there was a flash, like a camera, and it continued on its merry way to the north. It happened in a split-second, but as I remember it, the flash came from the lower left side of the fuselage, just below the door." (Editor's Note: Holly, Michigan is about 30 miles northwest of Detroit and just north of River Rouge Park and the Southfield Freeway, site of the most recent UFO encounter in Michigan.) BLACK TRIANGLE MAKES AN APPEARANCE IN LIVERPOOL On Tuesday, April 15, 1997, at 8:15 p.m., just before sunset, Lee Liser and a few friends were walking home "in a heavily-populated section of Liverpool." One of the group noticed a strange aircraft in the sky. "It was in a spin but staying at the same height (altitude)," Lee recalled. "It kept rotating to left and right, on an angle, and was just on the line. Its tail end seemed to split in two at times, and there was absolutely no noise. We watched it for about 40 seconds." He described the craft as "triangular in shape, makes no noise, and does amazing acrobatic stunts." The "Black Triangle" (BT) made a sharp looping turn over Merseyside, crossed the river towards Wallasey, turned again and flew away to the northwest, heading into the Irish Sea well away from Point Formby. (Unsolicited Email) FAST FLYBY IN ISRAEL On Saturday, April 12, at 8 p.m., residents of a kibbutz near Karmiel, in northern Galilee spotted a UFO in the sky about 70 degrees above the horizon. An eyewitness described it as "a big, bright, real yellowish-white light" that "approached from the southeast." As if in response to being seen, the UFO quickly increased its speed, "zipped up and disappeared behind a cloud." When it departed, the UFO was moving in a north-northwesterly direction. and "moving across the sky until it went out of sight behind a cloud." The following day, Sunday, April 13, the residents were awakened in the early morning by "helicopters... repeatedly circling over our settlement. Lots and lots of helicopters. There was one over my house a few hours ago." Along the side of the road were parked Israeli military flatbed trucks. Many contained portable radar arrays, computers and other electronic equipment. A spokesman for the Zahal (Israeli Self-Defense Forces) told the residents that the troops were "on maneuvers." (Many thanks to Yechiel A. Mann for this news story.) LARGE UFO VIDEOTAPED OVER PUNTA ARENAS On Tuesday night, April 15, 1997, the local radio station in Punta Arenas, Chile received numerous telephone calls reporting a UFO. Punta Arenas is the southernmost city in Chile, located on the western shore of the Strait of Magellan. The deejay telephoned members of Agrupacion de Investigaciones Ovniologicas (AION), Chile's most well-known UFO group. The AION team has been in Punta Arenas since March 24 to investigate the many recent UFO sightings. Arriving at their camera site, the AION members saw "strange lights in the southern sky." As the UFO flew closer, the team leader described it as "una immensa nave llena de luces en su fusalaje" ("an immense craft with plenty of lights in the fuselage.") Using four video cameras, the AION team kept shooting while "smaller light balls were discharged by the OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO)." "For several seconds, the OVNI hovered over the city of Punta Arenas, and then turned (east) towards the sea and flew over a mountain. The sighting lasted three and a half minutes." (Muchas gracias a Mario Briones Vidal y Yechiel A. Mann para esa noticia. See also the newspaper La Tercera of Santiago de Chile for April 15, 1997, page 1 "Espectacular OVNI En Punta Arenas.") BRAZILIAN UFOs ZERO IN ON AMERICANA, S.P. The city of Americana (population 144,000) in Sao Paulo state has become the new focus of UFO activity in southern Brazil. The city was founded in 1865 by Confederate refugees from the U.S.A., who created a replica of Mother Dixie. Although many residents have English surnames, they speak no other language except Portuguese. On March 22, 1997, at 6:45 p.m., a cigar-shaped silvery UFO was seen over the Rua Washington Luis by a few dozen residents. On March 31, 1997, "an OVNI with several colored lights" was seen near the university by two military policement and several students. This case is being investigated by the Centro de Investigacoes Exologicas (CIEX). The same time, 12:30 a.m. on March 31, a UFO "like two silver dishes," described as 10 meters (30 feet) in diameter, was seen hovering over another section of Americana. This UFO doused all of its lights when a plane approached. At 3:15 a.m. on March 31, witnesses elsewhere in the city spotted "a rectangular UFO with red, yellow and blue lights...about the size of a large helicopter." On April 1, 1997, at 1 p.m., several women in midtown reported seeing "a daylight disc with flashing red and blue lights." Just over eight hours later, at 9:30 p.m. April 1, Francio de Holanda, a photographer for the daily newspaper Toda Dia, shot several still pictures of a "luminous OVNI" over the midtown area. On April 2, 1997, at 11 p.m., members of Clube de Pesquisas Ufologicas (CPU), a UFO study group, sighted a luminous UFO alternately flying and hovering over the city. During the 3-hour period of observation, they shot videotape footage of the UFO. A second UFO appeared in the sky at 1:30 a.m., and both flew away quickly, the newcomer leaving behind "an orange contrail." On April 4, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., Eduardo Mondini, director of the Centro de Estudos e Pesquisas Exologicas (CEPEX), saw a luminous UFO flying over the city. One hour later, at 9:30 p.m., the newsroom staff at Toda Dia photographed the same UFO from their offices. This UFO also dimmed its light whenever a light plane approached. (Muito obrigado a Jefferson Martinho e Wilson Nakashima of Skywatch Brazil para eses casos.) ORANGE SPHERE APPEARS IN SKY OVER SINGAPORE On Friday, April 18, 1997, at 7 p.m. local time, Raj Gundam and his friends were driving on the Tampines Expressway, just after the Elias Road exit, in the island city-nation of Singapore. Just then, his friend Victor yelled, "Look! There's a mysterious light in the sky." "It was orange in color and flew in a straight like," Raj said. "It would glow and (then) fade out at intervals." The UFO remained in the sky for 45 minutes. "The light did not move from its spot at all. It looked exactly as if you were shining a bright light in a dark place," i.e. it formed a perfect circle of orange luminosity. He added that the UFO's position in the sky was "near the moon." (Email Interview) A-10 FIGHTER STILL MISSING After an intensive search lasting seven days, and the expenditure of just over $1 million, the U.S. Air Force has not yet located the A-10 fighter-bomber that vanished on April 2. The plane, piloted by Capt. Craig D. Buttons of Massapequa, N.Y., broke formation west of Tucson, Arizona the morning of April 2 and flew all the way to Colorado. The last radar image put the plane near New York Mountain, near Vail, Colorado. On Monday, April 14, after identifying six possible crash sites, terrain teams went in, covering grids measuring 13 by 17 miles. The Air Force sent in a radar-laden SR-71 Blackbird, and the Army dispatched two UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters from Fort Carson, Colorado. Clear weather on Wednesday, April 16, was a major help to the Civil Air Patrol planes searching the snow- covered Sawatch Mountains. Two suspected crash sites were visited by ground searchers, but the team found only metal pipes sticking out of the snow. The Air Force also mentioned Wednesday that the A-10 was carrying 575 rounds of ammunition for its 30mm Gatling gun in addition to the four 500-pound Mark 82 GP bombs. On Friday, April 18, the Air Force announced that it would scale back its intensified search early next week if no trace of the A-10 is found. According to USA Today, "Air Force officials confirmed Thursday that that a spy satellite detected an 'infrared event' - possibly a crash fireball or bomb explosion--in the rugged wilderness mountains where the (A-10) Warthog attack jet is thought to have gone down on April 2." "But that evidence seemed at odds with records from about 40 seismic detectors in the terrain surrounding the New York Mountain crash site." "Lt. Gen. Frank Campbell, commander of the (Davis-Monthan) Tucson air base where missing Capt. Craig Button was stationed, said Thursday that the instruments recorded 'no seismic indications during the time of this flight.' He said experts say a crash or bomb explosion...likely would have registered 1.9 on the Richter scale for ground- movement readings. Campbell said he wasn't qualified to explain what the lack of data means." (See USA Today, April 18, 1997, page 3A) from the UFO Files 1897: AIRSHIP LANDS IN IOWA Here's the actual news story of the UFO that reportedly landed outside Waterloo, Iowa on April 17, 1897. "Waterloo, Iowa April 17 - This region is much excited over an airship or a large vessel designed to leave the impression that it is a flying machine." "It was first observed here at dawn yesterday (April 16, 1897). The stranger in charge says it is a flying machine and he landed here to make some repairs and that he will resume his voyage in the air to-day. He keeps all people at a distance of several hundred yards from the machine and therefore many do not credit his story, but think it is a fake designed to create a sensation." "Just what object the man has to gain is a mystery, as he has not asked for money from the hundreds who have visited the field to take a look at the thing." "The structure is about 40 feet long (13 meters), constructed like a giant cigar, with wing-like attachments on the sides and a steering apparatus in the rear." "The whole is surmounted by a cupola, or lookout cabin, on the roof. The queer craft appears to be built of canvas and to be heavily varnished." "A pipe leading from the cone constantly emits vapor, as if the motive power were steam. The man in charge is a stranger hereabouts and carries a rifle to keep the people from too closely examining the machine. He secured permission from the farmer upon whose land he is to keep the machine there for a few days." "The man says he is on a voyage around the world but was forced to alight for repairs and that if the people do not believe he can fly through the air they can wait and he will give them a free exhibition." (See the Evening Times of Pawtucket, Rhode Island for April 17, 1897, page 6.) FUN UFO WEBSITES Anthony Chippendale has just update his site at UFOs Online. There are some great features here, so check it out at http://home.clara.net/chipp/ To keep up with Brazil's continuing UFO flap, why not visit the CEPEX Website? They're at http://empresa.com/vigilia/capa1.htm For a look at a Swedish newspaper containing UFO news, try Anders Persson's Website at http://www.wufoc.com Don't forget our parent site, UFO INFO, with up-to-date UFO news and lively features. Check it out at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try our page at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts That's all for this week. Here's wishing our readers in Israel a joyous Passover week. See you all next Sunday with more news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any item from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Arizona sightings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:16:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:26:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings > >Also, any idea of the chopper's altitude? Can anyone get a jpeg or a > >gif on here that has better rez than J.V.'s? I must admit I'm a bit > >intrigued, but one snip with for or five ships in it is just another > >airshow shot-no offence John. > >Don Ledger > Hiya Don, hi All, > Don, I intentionally used a frame that *showed the roof* of Toms' > house *for distance reference*. Put on yer glasses and give em a second > look! <G> Hello John and the List. John before you pop your cork let me tell you-as I MENTIONED in my first email-that I am taking the Pheonix sightings seriously, that is why I am asking these questions. I am a serious investigator but since distance is a factor I am limiting myself to satisfying my curiosity from afar. Read on to learn more. I did give them a look John, but I found the rez to be a hindering factor. I was trying to determine type. The roof line is helpful but a long lens typically those on handicams can pull in the background compressing it so that makes it difficult to determine the distance and height. > Also, if you know of any sanctioned "airshows" over residential areas I'd > be interested in hearing about it. The Shearwater International Airshow-Shearwater, Nova Scotia. The base is planted right in the middle of the suburbs of Dartmouth, Nova Scotia the former of which grew up around the base. Population aboout 75,000 across harbour from city of 250,000. Draws about 60-70,000 people to the show. "BUT"....I'm not suggesting that your Black chopper shots came from an airshow-I did not say that. Those things are flying low, (in > formation) over peoples homes! Your absolutely right, if -since they are helicopters-they were below 500 feet. Oh and in case you didn't notice, they are > flying in a standard *military* formation. (One out front and the other > slightly back and to his side.) No 'airshow' or commercial craft are > permitted under 500ft over residential areas that I know of. At least > that's the rule here in NY, I would imagine it's applicable nation wide. > (Pilots, please correct me if wrong) I am a pilot and you are wrong. MOST commercial aircraft are not permitted to fly below 1,000 feet over a built up area except helicopters which can be no lower than 500 feet over a built up area. The EXCEPTION to this rule is taking off or landing. Then an aircraft obviously has to be below these minimums. You mentioned New York. There is a corridor right through the city down the Hudson River where all aircraft (but mostly smaller a/c and helicopters, or say the Good Year blimp) can fly at 1,500 and "BELOW" like on a highway from North to South (or the reverse) as a short-cut through to Virginia for example to avoid the massive New York Terminal Air Space that spreads out over one hundred miles in diameter and up to 8 or 10,000 feet. It's like a big invisible wall in the sky that light aircraft have to get around or under. > > The implication of your comment ("just another airshow shot") is that > Tom has submitted footage of an "airshow", and is representing it > as something else. That, or it's just a flip analysis intended to minimize > the impact/import of this material. I've already explained that. Let me tell you that the footage begins > showing the treetops across from his house (located in a suburban > residential area) it follows the black helicopters across until they > disappear behind the edge of the roof on Toms' house. He was standing in > his front yard when he got the footage. You don't have to take anyones word > for it, it's all on the clip. I'll submit more of these frames from the > same sequence if you need to see em. I want to see them. I'd love to see the tapes. > The only "airshow" happening there is unscheduled, and unlawful. There's a > lot of pissed off Americans in Phoenix right now, you ought to talk to them > about "airshows". They want to know what's going on and they're not getting > any answers. The number of *first hand eye witnesses* alone would be able > to convict Mother Theresa of willful murder if they took the case to any > open court in the land! At some point we really have to stop all of the > "Well it could be this or that" crap and start paying some serious > attention to what these folks are reporting. Boy, you've really got a thing about these airshows John. > Here's a live case, happening right now as we speak, write e-mails, make > phone calls, do your homework, talk to some of the people involved. I have. > They are decent, ordinary folks that deserve a fair hearing. That was the reason I emailed in the first place. I asked some questions about the proximity of Airports or bases, but all you are giving me is this stuff about airshows. Airports have control zones and radar. That's why I asked about them. And they have another thing called REGULATIONS which have to be observed when flying in that airspace. Did anyone think to contact Pheonix Airport (and I'm sorry but I don't have a chart for that area so I don't have proper "identifiers") and ask who was flying in Tom's area during the time he filmed the choppers. These helicopters would have to make known their intent to the terminal, squawk transponder codes, and finally receive permission to enter the "zone" regardless if they were military or civilian. The military can get away with quite a bit but "not" in civilan airspace. The "tower" or "terminal control" have to keep records of all a/c entering into, manouvering in, and leaving their airspace so they should still be able to tell you. If they deny it then you have even more ammunition to use when you make a complaint to the FAA and show them your footage. Tom is going to make a complaint isn't he? > I guess some folks will dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their > belief systems without even a cursory examination. (Not for you personally Don ,) Well thanks for that at least John. I investigate sightings up here all the time and I do dismiss some of the crap that shows up here from time to time, but not the Pheonix sightings. I think they are worthy and warrent a comprehensive investigation while the trail is still hot. But that can best be done by experienced investigators out there, not by me, 2,000 miles away. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:24:31 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:33:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:19:00 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 2, Number 16 >April 20, 1997 >Editor: Joseph Trainor > Thursday, April 17, proved to be an exciting >day for the UFO community. More for conspiracy theorists than UFO watchers. > First came the incredible report that a U.S. >satellite, GOES-9, had photographed "a very large >anomalous object" over central Alaska at 1500 Zulu >or 8 a.m. Pacific time. (much deleted)... Which was easily explained, IF one listened. > A fourth GOES-9 image, taken at 1800 Zulu >(11 a.m.) registered a new object "half the size of the >first two" hovering over Colorado. > The first two objects were described as "square or >rectangular" and an estimated 25 miles (40 kilometers) >long. Which would indicate a 12 mile long object over Colorado, which NO one saw. > Rumors circulated that NORAD had "gone to >DEFCON-4 (Defense Condition #4) in response to the >presence of the "anomalous objects" found by GOES-9. The ONLY person saying that was Richard Hoaxland (I mean Hoagland). And IF that were true, EVERY single U.S. Military would have been locked down, and all personell recalled. And THAT obviously did NOT happen.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Alfred's Odd Ode #127 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:15:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:41:12 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #127 Apology to MW #127 (For April 20, 1997) It might even seem that I=92ve nothing to dream To waste my time on such a trifle. But, I guess she thinks she=92s fries bigger fish, To be acting so indifferent, and spiteful. It=92s about the first lady, and her UFO crack. It was the expression on her face. It=92s her crass disregard for one=92s personal feelings. Who advised _that_ casual disgrace? Perhaps she=92s not aware of what the Gallup polls swear? It=92s there so plain to see in white, and black. The irony is complete that it=92s the schooled, would you believe. . . The learned are the ones who see them . . . FACT! And many of them are liberal =96 the number is considerable. They would have voted, gladly, for her . . . maybe. . . So where does she get off with her cruel twist of mouth To dismiss one=92s truth as addled, feral, crazy? I mean it really chapped my butt to hear her intimate I=92m nuts After all defense -- support I=92ve shown what=92s liberal. To have her turn on me like that, with a sneered look, back to back! It=92s the Alien View she wasn=92t being cerebral. I mean, I listened to her pule the way she probably learned in school. How Hubble was a friend who=92d lost his way. And I=92m not just being unkind, when I say we=92ve lost our mind, If we bought into the white bread things she=92d say. I don=92t know what=92s from whitewater, the media=92s sucking pondwater. There=92s a dearth of news that comes from THEM each day! But it=92s kind of strange ironic, when you change to what=92s histrionic And its Charlie Manson making sense, I say! I mean the first lady tries to sound like a Brady But comes up with the same old tired crap! And for whatever reason, it seems Charlie=92s in season In comparison, dumping truth heavy in my lap! And I=92ve learned he=92s a bad man, contrived by our sad land He=92s had a foot on his neck since his birth. Hillary, on the other hand, was a princess I understand, So why is she covered in dirt? I refuse to pull the lanyard of a Republican standard. I refuse to say that liberalism=92s dead. But, I stand tall, and sneer, at the first lady=92s jeer -- And, I=92ll source reconsider, instead! =20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com Bad move, Mrs. Clinton! Keep it up, and you=92ll have no shot at being Mrs. Bush <g>!=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for looking into matters. . .
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefin From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:43:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefin >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:50:15 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:06:06 -0400 >>From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Project Starlight-Greer recent briefing >>Based on information and facts before us, I consider the >>chances of success for Greer and his team extremely slim, >>if not, non-existent. My notion is not to strike a negative >>note. >I found it odd, as well, that Greer had touted, originally, >the inclusion of "Guy Kirkwood" as one of his "military >witnesses." Look, Greer is doing his best for all of us. People make mistakes, so give the man a break. >This begs to wonder, as well, just how stable the rest of Greer's >witness pool is. I believe that a complete investigative dossier >would need to be compiled on each before rushing of to Congress >with unchecked statements and assertions. Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. Volunteers? >It is a shame to see Mitchell associated with this official-looking, >yet apparently questionable group. Mitchell is not God, not a fool either and can think for himself. >>It would not come as a surprise to see his collective >>efforts toyed with for a while, and manuvered into divertive >>avenues, several of which open as options. >Agreed. We already know what the First Lady, and apparently the >President, think of the endeavors of ufology. I would like to see >a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who >they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or >offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this >been provided? No. Progress is served with anonimity here. We're talking about people who have reputations. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Col. Richard Weaver Gets Cold Feet From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:13:01 -0400 Subject: Col. Richard Weaver Gets Cold Feet It seems that Col. Richard Weaver the author of the Air Force's propagnada report on Roswell didn't want to answer any serious questions on Roswell. He was scheduled to attend and lecture at a skeptics group in Washington, DC. at the Bethesda Library April 19, 1997. He apparently canceled at the last minute. Kevin Randle was kind enough to send 8 serious questions to Col. Weaver via the internet. I am willing to bet that Col. Weaver would never debate Kevin Randle in a open public forum with media present. He knows full well his coverstory on Roswell will not hold up to close scrunity and debate. One of the ORTK members present at the meeting had this to say about the meeting. "Apparently, Weaver cancelled at the last minute. They're hoping to reschedule him for later this year. All they did was show a film about James Randi and swindlers and cheats. I left after a little while." So there you have it folks. Deception just can't stand a little sunshine. I am sure Col. Weaver can come up with a good excuse for having to cancel at the last minute. What is his excuse for not having a debate with Kevin Randle or Stanton Friedman? The best, Ed Komarek, ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Ed Dames Military Records From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:46:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Dames Military Records Now that the A-10 wreckage has been "discovered" --apparently that is-- we will hear from Dames and cronies about how the RVrs have discovered the crash site in Colorado during this or that session. More from our "corrospondent" Art Bell........ :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:25:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:09:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:50:15 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing [text deleted for brevity] >Agreed. We already know what the First Lady, and apparently the >President, think of the endeavors of UFOlogy. I would like to see >a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who >they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or >offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this >been provided? Anyone know? One cannot fault Greer for his goal, but his methodology is IMHO flawed. The question will be whether or not his efforts help or hurt the search for the truth, and that has yet to be determined. I would like to see a list of those who attended the session, not just a list of those who were notified of it. I have been a "Hill" staffer (Computer Support Engineer) for more than a decade, and have a fairly good understanding of the way the House operates. This is a political environment, and (unfortunately) always will be. Until it is politically advantageous to become involved in the issue of UFOs, Members will avoid the subject. There are too many other issues that their constituents are vocal about, and with the exception of Congressman Steven Schiff, none have chosen to become involved. Like others on the "net", I have seen the Press (or "Net") Releases put out by Greer promoting this effort to "force" the government to act. But I learned of his recent meetings in Washington after the fact. I try to keep up with local activity in this genre, and was surprised to hear that Greer had held his event and that I hadn't even heard that it was going on. I contacted Don Berliner, who said he had heard it was taking place. But, when he called the Hotel, he was told they didn't know anything about a UFO briefing. So much for trying to get the word out. Of course, to be fair, I would note that Greer's target audience for this briefing were Government officials and not ufologists. My understanding is that staffers and some media were in attendance, but I have yet to find out who. Since we haven't seen a "big announcement", I must assume that the information provided didn't have a tremendous impact. My guess is that the attendance list won't be released by Greer, but I could be wrong. As far as the First Lady, and President Clinton are concerned, I think it is too early to draw serious conclusions as to their real thoughts on the subject of UFOs. As I said earlier, this is a political town, and while trying to deflect a reporter's question, the First Lady responded with a reference to UFO conspiracy theorists.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:16:25 -0400 Subject: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? Hi List, This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell incident. Does someone have the name of the publisher and/or the ISBN? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 UFOs Online Update From: "Anthony Chippendale" <chipp@mail.clara.net> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:00:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:30:57 -0400 Subject: UFOs Online Update The best Internet source for UFO and Alien information, UFOs Online, has just been updated. Visit today at: http://home.clara.net/chipp/ There's an updated Roswell report, an updated picture archive and much more new stuff, and the navigation of UFOs Online has been improved. UFOs Online: http://home.clara.net/chipp/ Email: ufos@chipp.clara.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Arizona sightings From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:49:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:28:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona sightings >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:16:21 +0000 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Arizona sightings >> >Also, any idea of the chopper's altitude? Can anyone get a jpeg or a >> >gif on here that has better rez than J.V.'s? I must admit I'm a bit >> >intrigued, but one snip with for or five ships in it is just another >> >airshow shot-no offence John. >> >Don Ledger >> Hiya Don, hi All, >> Don, I intentionally used a frame that *showed the roof* of Toms' >> house *for distance reference*. Put on yer glasses and give em a second >> look! <G> =========================================================================== Don writes, >I did give them a look John, but I found the rez to be a hindering >factor. I was trying to determine type. The roof line is helpful but a >long lens typically those on handicams can pull in the background >compressing it so that makes it difficult to determine the distance >and height. Tom King's your man Don. He can tell you how high his house is, how far away from it the camera was, and approx. how far away the copters were. xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >>Those things are flying low, (in formation) over peoples homes! >Your absolutely right, if - since they are helicopters - they were >below 500 feet. I find the existence of these aircraft to be a matter of some concern and urgency, thank you for your interest in the case. The more folks that look into this the better. No matter that you're 2000 miles away. If only one or two guys are looking into this they are just dead in the water, several people asking questions and garnering attention (may) produce some results down the line. The object for me is just to get the ball rolling. >I want to see them. I'd love to see the tapes. Don, please e-mail Tom. He's a really good guy and if you tell him that I sent you, and that you are a serious individual, I'm positive he'll provide you with a dupe of the black helicopter segment. Won't hurt to ask the man. >I asked some questions about the proximity of Airports or bases, Well just off the top, there's Phoenix Airport and Luke Air Force Base. There may be other military installations nearby, again, best guys to ask are Tom and Bill Hamilton. >If they deny it then you have even more ammunition to use when you >make a complaint to the FAA and show them your footage. > Tom is going to make a complaint isn't he? I have absolutely no idea what (if anything) he plans in regard to the helicopter incident. I know that he's never mentioned fileing a complaint to me. >But that can best be done by experienced investigators out there, >not by me, 2,000 miles away. Not true Don, it matters believe me. John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Hopes fading in search for ET From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:26:05 -0400 Subject: Hopes fading in search for ET SOURCE: Globe and Mail - p.D8 DATE: April 19, 1997 COLUMN: Mind & Matter BY: Michael Smith HEADLINE: Hopes fading in search for ET FOR centuries, science has been knocking humanity off its pedestal. The iconoclasm has been dubbed the Copernican principle, named for Copernicus, the Polish astronomer who gave Earthlings the first shove by showing our home planet wasn't the centre of the solar system. The shocks have followed quickly: the sun is a pretty average star, our galaxy is a pretty average galaxy, and so on. The discovery of planets orbiting other sun-like stars would surely reinforce the Copernican principle. Wouldn't it be more evidence that planetary systems like ours are common? And if planets are common, surely some of them would have life and perhaps even intelligence? But astronomer Geoff Marcy, one of the world's premier planet-hunters, isn't convinced. Evidence is mounting, he says, that planetary systems like ours, with a sun orbited by terrestrial planets--small, rocky worlds like Earth and Mars--and larger gas giants farther away from the star, are relatively uncommon. Of seven distant suns that have planets, only one--47 Ursae Majoris--has a system that even loosely resembles our own. Four of the other suns have large planets very close to them and two have large planets with very long, oval orbits. "It may be those six are not conducive to terrestrial planets," Dr. Marcy says. That would imply that there is something relatively unusual about us after all. What that something is remains open to question, but Dr. Marcy of San Francisco State University has an idea: Jupiter. Before there can be intelligent life, of course, there must be life. And current theory suggests that life can occur only where there's abundant liquid water, which implies that systems without terrestrial planets are unlikely to harbour ET. But current theories of how planetary systems form, Dr. Marcy says, seem to rule out the presence of terrestrial planets unless there's just one Jupiter-sized planet, roughly the same distance that Jupiter is from the sun, and with a nearly circular orbit like Jupiter's. Computer simulations of the formation of planets show that a gravitational tug-of-war between two Jupiter-sized planets would end with one being flung out of the system he says, while the other would wind up in a cozy orbit close to the star. Any newborn terrestrial planets would be smashed up in the battle between the titans. "I think our system is really very finely tuned," he says. "I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it, but I think there's good evidence. It's important to remember that no one has seen Dr. Marcy's extrasolar-system, Jupiter-sized planets. And there's no evidence whatever of terrestrial planets of any size orbiting distant stars. Finding even a large extrasolar planet would be no easy trick. Just looking won't do it; the tiny amount of light reflected from a planet is lost in the glare of the star itself. Instead, Dr. Marcy and his colleagues used the fact that light is affected by the motion of its source. If a source is moving away from us, we see the light shifted to the red end of the spectrum; if it is approaching, we see a shift to the blue end. If we look at a star and see that the light is shifted to the red, then the blue, then the red again, the conclusion is that the star is wobbling under the gravitational tug of an orbiting companion-a planet. Dr. Marcy and his colleagues have found evidence of five planets orbiting sunlike stars, although they don't get credit for being first. A Swiss team, Michel Mayor and Didier Queloz, beat them to the punch by finding a planet orbiting a star called 51 Pegasi. (In one of those unfortunate twists of fate, the Americans had studied 51 Pegasi- but they hadn't analyzed the data by the time Drs. Mayor and Queloz announced their finding.) The 51 Pegasi planet is very odd. With about half the mass of Jupiter, it is so close to its star that it makes a complete orbit in slightly more than four days. Three other systems have planets so similar that they're collectively called "51 Peg planets." And they may be, Dr. Marcy suggests, the remnants of systems in which two giant planets did form-with one being ejected into space and the other cozying up to the star. Here at home, we have two large planets-Saturn and Jupiter-but Saturn is less than one-third the size of its neighbour. For Dr. Marcy, that's the anti-Copernican point: "What turned off the tap when Saturn was forming? Why didn't it get as big as Jupiter" and cause disastrous results for the nascent Earth? Conversely, if 51 Peg planets are the norm, what are the chances of finding life elsewhere? Not good, he fears. I spoke to Dr. Marcy a few weeks ago outside a Seattle conference room in which a respected veteran of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence was describing the state of the hunt. She summed up by saying they hadn't found anything yet, but weren't discouraged. Dr. Marcy shook his head. "All of us want to see the SETI [search for extraterrestrial intelligence] succeed," he told me. "But all the indications are that it isn't going to." Michael Smith is a Toronto science writer. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:35:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' >Hi List, >This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', >which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters >and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen >Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). >The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell >incident. The book entitled, "Left at East Gate," written by Peter Robbins and Larry Warren was published by Morrow Books, a small publishing firm, based in N.Y. It's a terrific book! Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Lloyd Jacobs <lkj@front.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 02:51:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:41:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' >Hi List, >This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', >which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters >and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen >Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). >The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell >incident. >Does someone have the name of the publisher and/or the ISBN? The publisher is Marlowe & Company and the ISBN is 1-56924-759-5 __________________________________________________ Lloyd Jacobs lkj@front.net ab922@torfree.net _____________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:31:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:55:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:24:31 EDT >> Rumors circulated that NORAD had "gone to >>DEFCON-4 (Defense Condition #4) in response to the >>presence of the "anomalous objects" found by GOES-9. <snip> >IF that were true, EVERY single U.S. Military would have been locked >down, and all personell recalled. And THAT obviously did NOT happen. Anyone know exactly what procedures are taken when the DEFCON level changes? If I recall correctly DEFCON-4 is the second lowest (i.e. DEFCON-5 is total peace while DEFCON-1 is total war) .. so going to DEFCON-4 would not entail personnel being recalled, just a heightened state of alert. Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:22:56 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:41:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:19:00 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 2, Number 16 >April 20, 1997 >Editor: Joseph Trainor ----------------- [snip] > To keep up with Brazil's continuing UFO flap, >why not visit the CEPEX Website? They're at >http://empresa.com/vigilia/capa1.htm >----------------- [snip] Maybe the site is down (error 404, not found on this server)? And: where are the pics of the April 1st professional photographer (Just over eight hours later, at 9:30 p.m. April 1, Francio de Holanda, a photographer for the daily newspaper Toda Dia, shot several still pictures of a "luminous OVNI" over the midtown area.) ? Alf.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: "Weird" Contamination Suits From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:36:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:52:55 -0400 Subject: Re: "Weird" Contamination Suits > Date: 18 Apr 97 12:44:57 EDT > From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: "Weird" Contamination Suits > >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 0:52:38 -0500 (CDT) > >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> > >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET > >Subject: "Weird" Contamination Suits > >I was interested reading the post about biohazard suits with air > >apparatus attached to the leg. _Surely_ some more examples of > >these suits can be unearthed. Are these devices in evidence > >in the film (perhaps as bulges in the white fabric)? > A colleague of mine did find pictures of similar suits in a book > of that time frame (1947). The suits were utilized during loading > of caustic fuels. Hi All, For those list memebers in Europe/Asia who can receive BBC World TV, ( Eutelsat II F1 13deg east 11.620 V, and on cable in Germany ) keep a look out for a series later this next month or so entitled "Pandora's Box", in the program that covers the deployment of the atom bomb against Japan in WWII there is some footage of the "509th" bomb group on their Pacific base at the time of the bombing, look closely at the members of the ground crew in the footage, some seem to be wearing suits remarkably like those seen in the AA film. Best Regards Neil. -- Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Uni of Manchester. 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ New Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: neil | 76016.2701 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:37:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:37:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' Thanks to Gary Alevy for the lead..... From: Amazon.com 'Earth's Biggest Book Store' http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ats-query/3141-0544219-006422 Left at East Gate : A First-Hand Account of the Bentwaters-Woodbridge Ufo Incident, Its Cover-Up, and Investigation by Larry Warren, Peter Robbins Hardcover, 656 pages List: $24.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $22.46 -- You Save: $2.49(10%) Published by Marlowe & Co Publication date: March 1,1997 Dimensions (in inches): 9.59 x 6.57 x 1.66 ISBN: 1569247595 Availability: This item usually shipped within 2-3 days. Synopsis: A dramatic retelling of the December 1980 landing of a UFO in Rendlesham Forest in southeastern England, which is adjacent to RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, a NATO air base and nuclear weapons storage site. This authoritative account is the first ever to be recounted by a military witness. 32 photos. Customer Comments rccool@ix.netcom.com, 04/02/97, rating=3: Don't believe the hype. One ought to suspect something is up with Larry Warren's story when ufos start to appear early in his life. Warren says he was a ufo buff in those days and that admission alone would seem to compromise the objectiveness--and thus, the credibility--of anything he has to say about what, if anything, happened at RAF Woodbridge/Bentwaters. But the story gets bigger and stranger until, well, one simply cannot take it anymore. Unless, of course, you already believe the government is in cohoots with aliens, there are secret alien hide-outs and tunnels under sensitive military installations, etc. in which case everything falls into place as you might expect. Curiously, the glowing reviews on the dust jacket are written by marquee names, every single one wedded to the alien abduction/conspiracy theory.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 04:26:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:50:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:50:15 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >>>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:06:06 -0400 >>>From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Project Starlight-Greer recent briefing >>>Based on information and facts before us, I consider the >>>chances of success for Greer and his team extremely slim, >>>if not, non-existent. My notion is not to strike a negative >>>note. =========================================================================== Henny writes, >Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. >Volunteers? Not looking to derail the thread, just interjecting for a moment. Henny, Greer told me himself that "wealthy sponsors" provide the Lear jets and accommodations when he's off on one of his 'jaunts'. And do you have any idea how much his group CSETI charges new members? It's exorbitant! Please, don't make him sound like such a pure Pollyanna. Good old Dr Greer is raking it in thru' CSETI and there's probably Lawrence Rockefeller money rattling around in his coffers as well. About the only thing that "comes from his own pocket" is lint. Do your homework on this guy before you jump to his defense. My conversations with him left a very bad impression of him with me. I'm outta here, pick up where you left off! <G> John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:11:40 -0400 Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! After reading the EMails from all over the world these past few weeks regarding the claims that I am a "spy," (and other issues) I feel that I should respond to set the record straight. Normally, I do not waste my time on such drivel, but I will on this one occasion. Kal Korff Being a Spy/Intelligence Agent I am NOT a "spy," nor do I work for any government agency. YEARS ago, (late 1980s, early 1990s) I worked at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) and was assigned to the "Star Wars" project (among other duties). And yes, like EVERYONE there, I did have a security clearance, which is mandatory for employment at LLNL. Big deal. However, in 1989 (in May) I quit working at the Lab fulltime and went to work for Claris Corporation, which is a software subsidiary of Apple Computer, Inc. I then spent the next 6.5 YEARS there, and was on the HyperCard development team, among others. Claris makes such bestselling software packages for the Macintosh and PC as FileMaker Pro, ClarisWorks, AppleWorks, etc. Anyone wishing to check this easily can, as my previous book, Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, lists in the 10 page acknowledgements section, virtually everyone at Claris I used to work with! My former supervisor's name is also mentioned. I left Claris shortly after my book came out in early 1996. However, while I did work at Claris, I would get calls on occasion by officials at Lawrence Livermore Labs to consult with them on various issues. I did do some consulting, and did maintain my ties through the years up until the end of the Persian Gulf War. Incidentally, having worked for LLNL and specifically the same group that Bob Lazaar claims to have worked for, this is how I KNOW he is not telling the truth about Area 51, etc. As to my consulting for the government on anti-terrorist issues, unlike certain "UFOlogists", I believe very strongly that international terrorists MUST be stopped, and I do NOT DENY that I have helped the U.S. government (through computers) deal with certain terrorist groups. Hasn't it occurred to anyone critizing me for this that it's probably just a matter of time before some terrorist group manages to construct a nuclear weapon and will use it on innocent people? I am all for trying to halt such activities. If this makes me a "spy," then those who advocate such crap should have their heads examined. The MSNBC Chat I remember the MSNBC chat, and how high-paced and stressful it was. I thought I answered all questions thoroughly (except those I missed), but I guess not. The truth is, the chat traffic overwhelmed both me and the Microsoft monitor. Furthermore, the system Microsoft uses is somewhat out of date, and it had a limit of 256 characters before you would have to hit "Enter." So, I would be merrily typing away when I would hear a "beep" and then I would have to stop my train of thought, hit "Enter" and then try and continue. That's why some of my answers were choppy. It certainly wasn't real-time. Additionally, I am a two finger typist! While I type fairly quickly, Microsoft gave me one of those "Ergonomic" keyboards that they make for me to use, and it only made things harder on me due to the fact that I don't type "normally." I do not remember being evasive about the stupid charge that I am a "spy," nor any other issue, but I do remember hesitating to answer any more questions about it because I had to pause for a moment and try and remember whether it was okay to mention the nature of my anti-terrorist assignments, because it was many years ago. For the record, as my new book on Roswell due out shortly proves, I was also a consultant for the Prosecution on the O.J. Simpson case. I resigned, however, after seeing how inept they were -- much like several "UFOlogists" I know. Michael Hesemann Yes, I know Michael Hesemann. While he may criticize me for exposing the Meier case as a hoax (Hesemann is Meier's European publisher, a fact he conveniently "forgets" to mention) it is interesting that Hesemann has yet to disprove or refute a single thing in my Meier expose book! Indeed, dare I be so brave, I don't think Hesemann has the Kugels (Balls) to do so! Yes, I DO speak German, in fact, I had 4.5 years of it in Jr. High and High School. Hesemann, being a native however, could spank me in a German-speaking contest any day. The reason I did not respond to Hesemann in German at the MUFON Seattle conference (I actually did in our first conversation ever at UFO West in Los Angeles, which he conveniently forgets to mention) is because I knew he was trying to set me up, and I don't play those games. You see, Hesemann has a lisp, the poor fellow. This is very unusual-sounding for someone who is German, because it means that it's hard for him to pronounce things "normally" in his own language. And when he deliberately talks so fast that only he can understand himself, well, that's Michael. So, rather than asking him to "Sprechen sie Langsam, bitte" I simply switched to English. The relevant issue here is not my level of fluency in the German language. The relevant issue are the smoking guns I discovered during my undercover investigation in Switzerland that I document in my book on the Meier case. Hesemann (and no other Meier supporter) has disproven that work. Until they do, there's nothing to discuss. Hesemann is also WRONG when he says my main "witness" was Hans Jacob. Since Jacob died 18 months before I even went over to Switzerland, I never got to meet him nor did I ever talk with him. I mention all of this in my book, and Hesemann has read my book. Maybe he needs to read it again. Hans Jacob was not my main "witness," since I do not conduct my investigations via seance or other "psychic" means. However, Hesemann and Philip Mantle do! For example, in their upcoming book, Beyond Roswell, Hesemann and Mantle actually quote in a couple of paragraphs, a monologue from Mac Brazel! This is hysterically funny, since Brazel died in 1966 and never spoke to any UFO researchers! This doesn't stop Hesemann and Mantle from simply making up their facts anyway though, as this dialog indicates. In my upcoming book on Roswell, for the first time ever, smoking gun proof is presented which shows exactly what the Roswell object REALLY was. Yes there was a cover-up, no doubt. It also destroys the claims in Hesemann and Mantle's book (I was given an advanced copy of their manuscript, and quote from it) and for the first time ever the military files of Major Jesse Marcel are published. Unfortunately, he was not a credible witness, either. There's lots of other material, and lots of original research, including new facts about Bill Moore, Stanton Friedman, the Bolender memo, the mythical UFO "museum" in Japan (another Hesemann fantasy) and alien autopsy. You people need to understand that I am NOT a UFO skeptic. I am simply a UFO researcher who is trying to make sense of this phenomenon. That's it. It's that simple. I am amazed at how hard this concept has been for many in the UFO field to comprehend. Why? Because although many of you profess to be just "researchers," the truth is many of you have some sort of agenda or preconceived idea(s) as to what UFOs are. I, on the other hand, believe that each UFO case must be taken on its own, individual merits, and analyzed accordingly. I do not profess to know just what UFOs are, but I do maintain that whatever the answers ultimately turn out to be, humanity can only learn from those answers. Therefore, I advocate the serious, objective, and scientific study of UFO reports. I state this in my Meier expose book and re-state the very same point rather painfully in the conclusion of my new book on Roswell. This is hardly the position of a "debunker" as Hesemann erroneously labels me. For the record, I had a UFO sighting myself, years ago, and remain intrigued by the subject. Unfortunately, I spent 16 years studying both the Meier and Roswell cases (I even lectured with Stanton Friedman when I was in high school, he can verify I am not a spy), and both have turned out to be rather disappointing. Yet I challenge anyone to try and explain the object I saw, in the presence of other witnesses. Despite the fact that I am very familiar with everything that's flying, I still cannot explain what it was that I saw. As I state in both my Meier book and my upcoming Roswell book, the UFO field is overloaded with people who simply don't think critically and do lousy jobs at "investigating" cases. As long as the UFO field is overcrowded with kooks and charlatans as well, it will never attain the status of a legitimate area of scientific inquiry, nor should it. If UFOlogists really care about their field, they will ignore the Billy Meier's of the world and concentrate on adhering to scientific and objective principles. Of course, if they were to do this, then Michael Hesemann would have to find another job! I am still waiting, Mikey, for you to disprove my Meier expose book. Go ahead and disprove the photos I include in my book of Meier's "dinosaurs," the model he used at Unter-Balm, (where you claim in your book that it's a real UFO, etc.). Good luck! To those who think I am a "spy," once again I am NOT, and my background is easily verifiable and my 23 years in the UFO field has been documented through articles I've written and interviews I've given to the press ever since I was in high school! MUFON even published some of these back in 1980. I think Gary owes me an apology now, and if he continues to slander my good name by spreading such lies about me then I might have to resort to suing him. And I WILL, if he persists. My last name is KORFF, by the way, Gary Levy, and NOT KOROFF. My ancestry is German, not Russian. You can't even get my last name right, let alone the real facts about me. Too bad you didn't read my book on the Meier case before putting your foot in your own mouth, otherwise there would have been no doubt. Finally, contrary to Hesemann's claim, the video expose of the Meier case that I participated in was released in Novemver of 1995, along with my book exposing Meier. Both are available for sale. Contact me and I can tell you where they can be obtained. My book has 117 photos in it, most of which have never been published before, and are from Meier's original negatives. Hesemann wishes he had gotten this lucky in his Meier book. My book also has more than 500 footnotes and is the ONLY Meier book that has footnotes which allow for independent verification. My Meier book is also the ONLY Meier book endorsed by BOTH the major UFO groups AND the skeptics, and even FATE magazine! Many people have left Meier's cult because of its devastating revelations, and I have the letters to prove it from as far away as Japan. The video contains some of the secret, undercover footage (as does the book) taken at the Meier compound which proves it is a cult, and that Meier is not a poor humble Swiss farmer (more Hesemann and Wendelle Stevens lies) and it also shows some on-location footage using UFO models taken at the same spots that Meier shot his pictures at. It definitively proves that Meier used models and Hesemann has never disproven this portion of my Meier research either. Nor has Stevens. This material is also in my book. That's all I have to say for now, for those who wish to think I am a spy, so be it. For Michael Hesemann, it will be interesting to see what develops as your upcoming book and Roswell gets exposed for the farce that it is, and as Meier's wife continues to sing her head off about her hoaxing husband. I remember when I saw Meier's wife while I was there in Switzerland undercover. She looked like a walking zombie, as I mention in my book, and of course we've all known that Meier has abused her for years. No wonder she's finally leaving him. Maybe Michael should share with us what he told Glen Hoyen and I at the MUFON Seattle conference about what Meier makes the women in his cult do everyday. Go ahead, Michael, share this little sexual "gem" with the rest of the internet world, won't you? Of course, you won't, because then even fewer people would believe in the Meier case and it would make you look even more gullible than you are. Get a clue, Michael, and get a life! As far as Bob Shell saying my "spy" background should be investigated, I suggest that he team up with Hesemann and Mantle and form yet another International "Research" Team and "expose" me. I would rather have these clowns spend their time chasing fantasies rather than continuing to meddle in (and muddy) the UFO database of cases which deserve far better than the sorry, inexcusable efforts of these three stooges. PLEASE investigate me....and maybe while you three are busy chasing down a new, non-event, the rest of us can try and get some credible work done. Lastly, I have no publicist, it is just me. MSNBC featured my work, (like CNN, FOX and others have) because they saw it as a credible investigation. Hope these answers clarify a few issues that should never have been "issues" to begin with.... : )
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Varginha - Information from Ubirajara Franco From: Pedro Cunha <pedro.cunha@navigat.ax.apc.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:45:51 GMT-3DST Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:49:05 -0400 Subject: Varginha - Information from Ubirajara Franco Hello, I talked to Ubirajara Franco Rodrigues over the telephone last Friday morning. He is in Santa Maria, Rio Grande do Sul, in a Ufology meeting. One thing he asked me is to do was to send this message to Internet saying that 'there are not 40 military witnesses' in the Varginha Case. But he also did not tell me how many names he has withheld, but there are not 40 military names involved in this case. So here it is the message, as he told me and asked me to do. Greetings, [...]s Pedro Cunha +----------------------------+ | pcunha@navigat.ax.apc.org | +----------------------------+ UFOIA Pense: ... If it works, tear it apart and find out why --- GoldED/2 3.00.Alpha2+ *********************************************************** => This message reflects the idea of its original author <=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:48:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:23:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. >Volunteers? While I don't have evidence to the contrary, CSETI would be one of the few registerred "non-proft" groups that I have heard of that is financed in this manner. But the call for "volunteers" would be an honest one. >>It is a shame to see Mitchell associated with this official-looking, >>yet apparently questionable group. >Mitchell is not God, not a fool either and can think for himself. and he isn't really a UFOlogist either. >>>It would not come as a surprise to see his collective >>>efforts toyed with for a while, and manuvered into divertive >>>avenues, several of which open as options. >>Agreed. We already know what the First Lady, and apparently the >>President, think of the endeavors of ufology. I would like to see >>a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who >>they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or >>offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this >>been provided? >No. Progress is served with anonimity here. We're talking about >people who have reputations. No. Anonimity would help to keep information out of the hands of the public, and allow those in power to enforce the status quo. If Greer was planning "secret" hearings, why would he put out information prior to the event on the "net"? You don't publicize something that you want to keep quiet. This is a political town, and Greer is going to have to learn how to swim in those waters if he wants to have an impact.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:41:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:28:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:25:29 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing > >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:50:15 -0500 > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing > [text deleted for brevity] > One cannot fault Greer for his goal, but his methodology is IMHO > flawed. The question will be whether or not his efforts help or > hurt the search for the truth, and that has yet to be determined. > I would like to see a list of those who attended the session, not > just a list of those who were notified of it. I have been a "Hill" > staffer (Computer Support Engineer) for more than a decade, and > have a fairly good understanding of the way the House operates. > This is a political environment, and (unfortunately) always will > be. Until it is politically advantageous to become involved in > the issue of UFOs, Members will avoid the subject. There are too > many other issues that their constituents are vocal about, and > with the exception of Congressman Steven Schiff, none have chosen > to become involved. That is all true, but I don't think his methodology was flawed. Seems that he got a good response. It may take repeated tries - press conference is next if Congress doesn't respond. I think we should all try to help - isn't it want we want, an end to government secrecy? The briefings were secret, I understand, because several of the witnesses were worried about their participation - security concerns. I agree, I'd like to see an attendee list - then we could all write them and keep the pressure on. I already wrote Bill, will now write Hillary AND my Congresswoman and Senators. Short of giving up our "day jobs" and spending full time on this issue, there's not a lot we can do except to communicate to the legislative and executive branch and try to direct their attention to it. I intend to volunteer to do "leg work" for my representatives - if they take me up on it I'll try my best to deliver. Related subject in the area of secrecy - when I first started educating myself about ETs and UFOs, I found that I couldn't extricate two topics I would have rather not had to think about - (1) government secrecy, cover ups, and possibly worse, and (2), cataclysms and "earth changes." It seems likely that (1) is highly motivated by (2). We can theorize or speculate about all of the interconnected motives, but it does seem that the stakes, as far as the government are concerned, are very high. Therefore, I respectfully submit that any effort that promises the possibility of a crack in the stone wall should be encouraged and supported. If THEY (the government) indeed know more of the puzzle pieces than we do, and some of those puzzle pieces are not particularly pleasant, I could surmise why they are continuing the secrecy. I don't agree, because I believe the greatest oppression is forcing the populous to live in a false reality. Only when enough people demand the truth in an effective manner will there be a real chance to get genuine, official information from them. Since their debunking, disinformation campaigns, and withholding of documents have been very effective, I'm not holding my breath. However, next to a march on Washington with hundreds and thousands of people (like End the War marches in the 60s), or an undisputed daylight sighing over a major city in the US by thousands of people, Congressional hearings, (especially if the Starlight Coalition succeeds in gaining open hearings), will be the next best thing to bring the subject to light and prevent more media trashing. If it's open hearings, I will be there at 5AM with my lawn chair waiting for a seat! Another thing I hated to see, as I embarked on this intensive self-education, was the lack of coordination in the ET/UFO investigation community - that's putting it mildly. How will we ever build enough honed and focused force to affect the government if there is no cohesion among groups? Perhaps the escalating events of the present and near future will provide a standard to rally around - I hope so. Remember who the real perpetrators are, anyway - the visitors themselves. Just enough teasing to keep us interested, not enough to tip the boiling pot over, the little sneaks! :) Melanie Search for other documents from or mentioning: meccam | steve |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Col. Richard Weaver Gets Cold Feet From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:44:30 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:45:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Col. Richard Weaver Gets Cold Feet >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:00:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Col. Richard Weaver Gets Cold Feet > It seems that Col. Richard Weaver the author of the >Air Force's propagnada report on Roswell didn't want to answer >any serious questions on Roswell. He was scheduled to attend >and lecture at a skeptics group in Washington, DC. at the >Bethesda Library April 19, 1997. He apparently canceled at the >last minute. > Kevin Randle was kind enough to send 8 serious questions >to Col. Weaver via the internet. I am willing to bet that Col. >Weaver would never debate Kevin Randle in a open public forum >with media present. He knows full well his coverstory on Roswell >will not hold up to close scrunity and debate. > So there you have it folks. Deception just can't stand >a little sunshine. I am sure Col. Weaver can come up with a good >excuse for having to cancel at the last minute. What is his >excuse for not having a debate with Kevin Randle or Stanton >Friedman? Can someone tell me if Randle or Friedman have ever invited Weaver to debate? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:22:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:20:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing Hi Henny, At 12:43 AM 4/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. >Volunteers? Most people on this list pay their research from their own pockets, and do this besides working on a regular job, without any sponsorship. I'm not sure where Greer pays all those lunches and dinners from, but when I look at www.cseti.org under "how to become a member" I get a strange feeling about him; Levels of Membership: Friend of CSETI: $40-$59/year (10% off conference fees) Contributor: $60-$100/year (20% off conference fees) Sustaining Member $101-$500/year (33% off) Benefactor: $501-$2,000/year (50% off) Starlight Member: $2,001-$10,000 Lifetime Member (50% off) Research Founder: Over $10,000 Lifetime Member and lifetime complimentary conference status Corporate /Organization: $60/year minimum (for one membership) +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Armen Victorian From: Jerry Anderson <UFOMEK@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:22:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:11:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Armen Victorian >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:33:20 -0400 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Armen Victorian >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> >Dear Mr. Anderson, >I extend the same congratulations as I did to Fortean Times. >I enjoyed reading your "accurate essay" enormously. Please do keep >up the good work. The UFO field could benefit from your services. Thank you >Those who are in the know, do know the accuracy of what I publish. >Unfortunately they could be counted on the fingers of five people, >who have shared the facts for decades. care to name them? >Once more thank you for a job well-done. We do not intend to hold any >shares in the UFO industry and its public "Research" participants. Neither, >are annoyed of what such forums expeculate based on convenient cover >storries put out for their consumption. Hope to see your name, like others >of "known fame" in large letters, and for public readership perhaps another >25 years or more before reaching the age of maturity and be ready for the >facts. In the meantime, enjoy daily output of UFO stories. The above is not >intended as ill-will to the famed, since they do deliver what their >perception acquires to their customers to the best of their ability. >Neither, are we prepared to enter into usual dosage of dialogue with the >esteemed members of the UFO industry. >Thanks again for your help. np Dear Mr Victorian Thank you for taking the time to answer this posting in person. I am totally aware that some of your information is undoubtedly accurate but some is extremely innaccurate. I must however, ask one question, the post was referring to you as an individual and you answered "we" so what I would like to know who is the "we" that you are talking about? Jerry Anderson Co-ordinator UFOMEK http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ufomek.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Project 1947: Peter Gersten Speaks Out - May 17 From: Anastasia Wietrzychowska <MufonCT@AOL.COM> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:07:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:58:31 -0400 Subject: Project 1947: Peter Gersten Speaks Out - May 17 ATTENTION ALL CT. MA, NY, NH, MD, RI, ME LIST MEMBERS: AFTER 15 YEARS, PETER GERSTEN BREAKS HIS SILENCE! The ONLY scheduled speech to be given by Peter Gersten, lawyer who sued the CIA and NSA, etc and won to gain release of hundreds of ufo documents, will take place at: 7:30 p.m., May 17th, The VFW HALL, 465 Riverside Avenue, WESTPORT, Connecticut - seating limited - Pursuant to his 1977 lawsuit, the CIA (in 1979) released over 900 pages of ufo-related documents. They refused to release 57 documents claiming 'National Security Considerations', and no one could force them to comply! In view of all the recent attention the media has given 'Heavens Gate' etc, come inform yourselves about the continuing Governmental UFO secrecy, and get comments and documentation about the 1947 and before NAZI escape to Antartica scenario... Gersten's on top of the issues and has some startling information to impart. I invite you all to avail yourselves of his worthy assessments at this ONLY area opportunity. Send SASE to: MUFON, ConnecticutT, P.O. Box 523, Trumbull, CT 06611 ($15 reserved seating) till May 10th. Space only seating from the door at $18.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: wnaka@sili.com.br (Wilson Nakashima) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:01:46 -0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:00:30 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:22:56 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > Maybe the site is down (error 404, not found on this server)? > And: where are the pics of the April 1st professional photographer > (Just over eight hours later, at 9:30 p.m. April 1, > Francio de Holanda, a photographer for the daily > newspaper Toda Dia, shot several still pictures of a > "luminous OVNI" over the midtown area.) ? > Alf. Hi Alfred, The correct address is: http://empresa.com/com/vigilia/capa1.htm and there are two photos of Francio in this site. [] and greetings from Sao Paulo (city), Brazil.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Armen Victorian From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Apr 97 10:29:24 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:36:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Armen Victorian Jerry Anderson did an excellent job in revealing Armen/Henry's lineage for us all but then, like so many people on this list, went and spoiled the 'freedom of info' angle by cryptifying an incident involving Henry: >I was talking to a freind of mine in >cheshire, Mr "E", he runs a UFO group <snip> >When he eventually left, E saw him >down to his car, copied down Victorians' >telephone number and bade him >farewell. E went back into the house, >picked up his case containing his report, >only to find that it had gone! Documents, >photos', everything. Victorian must have >taken them when E had nipped to the loo >just before Victorian had left! E was >seething to say the least and a couple >of hours later rang Victorian at the >number he had been given. Suprisingly >the telephone was answered by Victorian >himself! Has this man no shame? E asked >him if he had taken the documents, to >which Victorian replied, "yes, I did, and >it will cost you A32,000 to get them back!" >E told him where to get off in no uncertain >terms, and slammed the phone down. E's >enquiries into Victorian have led him to >believe that he is involved in some sort of >counter-intelligence as regards UFO investigation. Why the obfustication about who you mean Jerry? This is just covering one mystery with another. How can you expect people to take you seriously when you are making what are effectively serious allegations of theft against an esteemed member of the UFO research community. For the benefit of the list I'll tell them that the person, Mr E, who you refer to is Eric Morris of the Cheshire UFO Study thingy. The 'crash/retrieval you mention was allegedly at the St Mawgn base. Why didn't Eric publish the photos of the c/r if he had them? Also it seems that what you are saying is that Henry A. stole documents from Eric Morris and then offered to sell him them back. Why didn't Eric go to the Police? Where's the proof of *any* of this? Let's say what we mean eh? Bests Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:16:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-21 02:33:34 EDT, Henny writes: > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' > Hi List, > This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', > which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters > and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen > Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). > The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell > incident. > Does someone have the name of the publisher and/or the ISBN? The publisher is Marlowe & Company and I've seen the book at Barnes and Nobles Bookstores. The problem with it is that Larry Warren was not physically at Bentwaters for the first two nights of activity. He was in Germany. He invented a third night so that he could plug himself into the events. The confusion about the dates of the events come, not from conflicting testimony of the participants, but from Warren who was not there. If there was no third night, then there could be no involvement by Warren. The Bendwaters case seems to be a solid one, as long as you pay no attention to Larry Warren. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:08:52 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:45:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:41:45 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > In a message dated 97-04-21 02:33:34 EDT, Henny writes: > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > > Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' > > Hi List, > > This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', > > which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters > > and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen > > Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). > > The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell > > incident. > > Does someone have the name of the publisher and/or the ISBN? > The publisher is Marlowe & Company and I've seen the book at > Barnes and Nobles Bookstores. > The problem with it is that Larry Warren was not physically at > Bentwaters for the first two nights of activity. He was in Germany. > He invented a third night so that he could plug himself into the > events. The confusion about the dates of the events come, not > from conflicting testimony of the participants, but from Warren > who was not there. If there was no third night, then there could be > no involvement by Warren. > The Bendwaters case seems to be a solid one, as long as you pay > no attention to Larry Warren. > KRandle Dear Kevin, Even Colonel Halt's memo refers to three nights, him being witness to the last two I believe. What eveidence do you have to show that Larry Warren was not there on the third night. I would be interested to know. All the best, Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Apr 97 14:29:34 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:38:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! Kal, It's "Sprechen sie langsamer, bitte". Michael does NOT have a lisp, and pronounces his German perfectly. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:45:42 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 Concerning DEFCON 4... As of this writing, none of the wire services or any of the daily newspapers I scanned this morning mentioned that the alert at NORAD had been lifted. Nor has there been any discussion of the particulars of the "threat" that prompted the FBI "heads up" last week. Presumably it has to do with domestic terrorism. It was probably a quirky coincidence that it all come together the morning GOES-9 decided to go haywire. [Joseph Trainor]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:06:28 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:20:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >After reading the EMails from all over the world these past few weeks >regarding the claims that I am a "spy," (and other issues) I feel that I >should respond to set the record straight. Normally, I do not waste my time >on such drivel, but I will on this one occasion. > Anyone wishing to check this easily can, as my previous book, Spaceships of >the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, lists in the 10 page acknowledgements >section, virtually everyone at Claris I used to work with! My former >supervisor's name is also mentioned. I left Claris shortly after my book came >out in early 1996. > However, while I did work at Claris, I would get calls on occasion by >officials at Lawrence Livermore Labs to consult with them on various issues. >I did do some consulting, and did maintain my ties through the years up until >the end of the Persian Gulf War. Incidentally, having worked for LLNL and >specifically the same group that Bob Lazaar claims to have worked for, this >is how I KNOW he is not telling the truth about Area 51, etc. Hi Kal, Interesting letter from you about you not being a spy and Hesemann being wrong on Meier and misspelling your surname. Without getting into your argument with Hesemann, explain to me why you say that Bob Lazar (not Bob Lazaar) claims to have worked for LLNL (Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory), specifically the group that Lazar worked for, while it is all over the place that Lazar says he has worked for LANL (Los Alamos National Laboratory)? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 Project Starlight From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:54:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:50:16 -0400 Subject: Project Starlight Without intending to divert the mainstream debate concerning Project Starlight, if there is sufficient curiously on the part of the public UFO community, it is quite feasible to provide a historical portrait of Steven Greer and his evolutionary, directed, achievement in his UFO quest. The case would provide the readership in depth, untold portions of his activities throughout, and why he was one of the few "chosen ones" to be utilised and encouraged to act in this fashion. Some of his earlier attempts of contact with the "ET" was a duplication of a series of earlier experiments conducted in a proving ground years back - Greer used more "updated material". Greer might sooner or later discover why he has been given the "support" and thrown into the "limelight". But, as to whether, he would share his ultimate understanding with his followers, is solely up to him, and highly questionable. Once more I would emphasize the object of this exercise is by no means a criticism of Greer's activities. Whilst he might have all the good will and the BELIEF in what he does, those interacting with him might not share the same notion. Neither, this is an exercise on my part to enter into the usual exchange of routine dialogues with the "UFO community". Nevertheless, I will urge Greer to pause and re-examine the pros and cons. That, I doubt he'll do. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 21 New Canadian UFO book From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:59:55 -0400 Subject: New Canadian UFO book A new book on the Canadian UFO experience has hit the shelves. Below you'll find my preliminary overview. Perhaps you would like to check it out for yourselves. ********************** TITLE:The UFO Files BY: Palmiro Campagna Hardcover published by the Stoddart Publishing Co. $26.95 CDN $21.95 US The author is described on the dust jacket as; Palmiro Campagna, P. Eng., works for the Department of National Defence in Ottawa. He has acted as the Canadian representative to NATO in the area of electromagnetics in military aircraft. He is the author of the bestseller `Storms of Controversy: The Secret Avro Arrow Files Revealed.' On a cursory glance, there doesn't seem to be anything new here. The book discusses some well-known early Canadian cases as well as the AVRO car, the Stefan Michalak case, Wilbert Smith, the Nov. 1975 Falconbridge episode, etc. The Michalak case is given quite a bit of space within the book (an entire chapter) and might contain new information for those believing this to be a genuine UFO encounter to change their minds. With regard to the rest of the book, perhaps on closer reading it will be more revelatory. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:04:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:31:40 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 16 > Anyone know exactly what procedures are taken when the DEFCON level > changes? If I recall correctly DEFCON-4 is the second lowest (i.e. > DEFCON-5 is total peace while DEFCON-1 is total war) .. so going to > DEFCON-4 would not entail personnel being recalled, just a > heightened state of alert. To use an analogy if I may: DEFCON 5 pistol is locked up in cabinet DEFCON 4 pistol is removed from cabinet DEFCON 3 pistol is loaded DEFCON 2 pistol is cocked DEFCON 1 pistol is fired DEFCON 4 occurs almost anytime anyone sneazes. (GRIN) DEFCON conditions can change so rapidly in an age of almost zero warning that recalling of personnel is not consequential. By the time the recall would be issued, the war would be over and all that would be left to do would be for the winners to pick up the pieces. All those making a lot of noise about DEFCON 4 are either ignorant, gullible, or trying to manipulate the ignorant and the gullible in some way. Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #127 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:06:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #127 >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:15:38 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #127 >Apology to MW #127 (For April 20, 1997) >It might even seem that I've nothing to dream >To waste my time on such a trifle. >But, I guess she thinks she's fries bigger fish, >To be acting so indifferent, and spiteful. >It's about the first lady, and her UFO crack. >It was the expression on her face. >It's her crass disregard for one's personal feelings. >Who advised _that_ casual disgrace? Alfred, I took it differently than you did...In fact I took it differently than Mrs Clinton meant it. In other words, we know that UFOs are a very real phenomena...We know that Hale-Bopp was a very real comet. SO, IT APPEARS THAT MRS CLINTON, HAS JUST ADMITTED HER AND BILL'S GUILT IN THE WHITE WATER AND VINCE FOSTER DEATH...Want to try for other thigs to connect as well? <g> Ha, ha, ha, aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.... >"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from >afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the >fundamentalist's stake for looking into matters. . . Very good quote Alfred...I admired Giordano Bruno very much... he stood by his ideals and ideas during the persecution and the "burning." I only hope I could do the same, if the situation presented itself. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Fund for UFO Research Web Site From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:19:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:17:27 -0400 Subject: Fund for UFO Research Web Site The Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) is now online, and their list of publications should not be overlooked by those who are interested in this genre. FUFOR can be found at: http://www.fufor.org and email may be sent to: fufor@us-index.com Seasoned UFOlogists and those new to the genre will find this an invaluable source for information, and it shouldn't be missed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:07:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? To all, About "Left at East Gate"......I received a pre-release copy from Marlowe for review and enjoyed it. Marlowe's number is 212-460-5742 or distribution 800-788-3123. Barnes and Noble and also Borders Book stores are carrying out in the west. Kathleen Andersen State Section Director MUFON - Washington State
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:30:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >Date: 21 Apr 97 14:29:34 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >Kal, >It's "Sprechen sie langsamer, bitte". >Michael does NOT have a lisp, and pronounces his German perfectly. Bob, You weren't there, I WAS! Maybe the two times I have talked with Hesemann he was having an off day, then? In fact, Katarina Blei also commented on this (you don't know her)....his difficulty pronouncing "vs" and "ws" correctly. But Bob, whether or not Hesemann has a lisp, it's ultimately irrelevant, isn't it?? The real issue here is Hesemann's penchant for endorsing spurious cases. Sound familiar, Bob? Finally' it's not necessarily "langsamer" either. There are over 430 dialects of German officially recognized in Germany alone. You guess which one I was educated in. Shouldn't you be spending your time more valuably getting back to "authenticating" the alien autopsy film? : -)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Info request on photo of object 1974, Uzes, Nimes, From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:25:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:27:03 -0400 Subject: Info request on photo of object 1974, Uzes, Nimes, I am seeking information on the photo shown on page 97 of Jenny Randles' "UFOs and How To See Them". The text states the object was observed in 1974 at Uzes near Nimes, France. The photo appears to show some patterns in the object luminosity which I am interested in correlating with another photo. I would like to obtain detailed case information to help in interpreting the image. Thanks in advance. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:09:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:11:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:41:02 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing Per Melanie and Kaeser on Greer/Starlight... >> One cannot fault Greer for his goal, but his methodology is IMHO >> flawed. [snip] >> I would like to see a list of those who attended the session, not >> just a list of those who were notified of it. >That is all true, but I don't think his methodology was flawed. Seems >that he got a good response. Did he get a good response? Forgive my not keeping up with current events for the past couple of days. (Danged work keeps interfering, hehehehehehe...) I was under the impression that not much was made of the Washington gig. But I humbly submit that I might be in error in my assumptions. [snip] >I'd like to see an attendee list - then we could all write them and keep >the pressure on. This is kind of what I was thinking too. If we can determine who among that list might be responsive in the positive, it might be a starting point for future efforts. >I already wrote Bill, will now write Hillary AND my >Congresswoman and Senators. Short of giving up our "day jobs" and >spending full time on this issue, there's not a lot we can do except to >communicate to the legislative and executive branch and try to direct >their attention to it. I intend to volunteer to do "leg work" for my >representatives - if they take me up on it I'll try my best to deliver. This is exactly the kind of campaign that I was trying to convey, Melanie. If enough people continue to do this, and get their friends and relatives to do it, and KEEP doing it, so that a "movement" slowly develops, it could theoretically become an issue that politicians perceive as a vote-rendering platform. THAT is when we would get their interest. The thing to consider, here, is this: Truthfully, we, as UFOlogists, are a very small percentage of the voting populace. This is why we MUST clean up the way that UFOlogy is perceived by many. We must endeavor to "have our ducks in a row" by weeding out the nonsense and getting the best information out on the subject for ALL to see. We can do this via our web pages for starters. I have often gotten people interested in this subject by talking to them about the "best" material; that which really does have TANGIBLE and EVIDENTIAL backing. Then I direct them to our website, and others' websites, where I have seen GOOD material. We can't give them unsupportable and bizarre stories, but enough concrete material to make them understand that the phenomenon is REAL. And then we get them to write letters of their own, and tell people that they know to look at the material and write letters. It could be a quiet, yet effective campaign, once Washington perceives it to be a large VOTING percentage of the public. I should comment on the rest of your message, which I found loaded with thought-provoking asides, but not only do I need to get back to work, but EBK might get tired of seeing my mumblings if I persist. 8+) Regards from the Lone Star, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:09:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:14:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:25:29 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing Per Victorian and Joyner on Greer/Starlight... >[text deleted for brevity] >>I would like to see >>a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who >>they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or >>offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this >>been provided? Anyone know? >One cannot fault Greer for his goal, Agreed. >but his methodology is IMHO flawed. This is the point I was getting to, in a roundabout fashion, heh heh. >The question will be whether or not his efforts help or >hurt the search for the truth, and that has yet to be determined. Quite true, Steven. You have once again put the point I was dallying with into sharp perspective. The determination lies in how the presentation is made, and with what "guns" he goes to the table with. Unfortunately, with "Kirkwood" the "guns" would misfire, and with a band of unknown and anonymous others, one might question if he really has any ammuniton. I do commend Greer on what he is attempting to do. But, I fear that Washington is not a place to test an equation with unknown factors; i.e., anonymous or questionable personnel. >I would like to see a list of those who attended the session, not >just a list of those who were notified of it. I have been a "Hill" >staffer (Computer Support Engineer) for more than a decade, and >have a fairly good understanding of the way the House operates. Heh, believe me, your reputation preceeds you. (wink) I have heard some good things about you, bud. >This is a political environment, and (unfortunately) always will >be. Until it is politically advantageous to become involved in >the issue of UFOs, Members will avoid the subject. There are too >many other issues that their constituents are vocal about, and >with the exception of Congressman Steven Schiff, none have chosen >to become involved. And this is exactly THE point, isn't it? We cannot expect those of whom you speak to carry the sword for a group (UFOlogy) which has such a frantic habit of shooting itself in the foot. For any House Member to be expected to get behind this issue, a truly ordered, educated, lucid, and informationally zeroed-in group must rally first. The subject is just too dangerous to align with, otherwise. >Like others on the "net", I have seen the Press (or "Net") >Releases put out by Greer promoting this effort to "force" the >government to act. But I learned of his recent meetings in >Washington after the fact. I try to keep up with local activity >in this genre, and was surprised to hear that Greer had held his >event and that I hadn't even heard that it was going on. Heh, so much for public relations... (smirk) [snip] >My understanding is that staffers and some media were in >attendance, but I have yet to find out who. Since we haven't seen >a "big announcement", I must assume that the information provided >didn't have a tremendous impact. (Sigh) Actually, and I hate to say it, this is about what I expected. >My guess is that the attendance list won't be released by Greer, >but I could be wrong. I fear that you are right, Steven. But it would only serve to forward the intended effect, if he would release a list. For then, at the least, we might get an idea, through a little research, of what media and House members MAY lend a benevolent ear some time in the future... And likewise might serve to figure out who would play the role of future "spoiler." (wink) >As far as the First Lady, and President Clinton are concerned, I >think it is too early to draw serious conclusions as to their real >thoughts on the subject of UFOs. As I said earlier, this is a >political town, and while trying to deflect a reporter's question, >the First Lady responded with a reference to UFO conspiracy >theorists. Yes, I understand this. Actually, my letter to her was as much an attempt to influence others to do the same type of thing with other Washington figures, as anything else. If a campaign of letters and messages were mounted, perhaps the politicos might eventually detect an issue to "rally behind" for the good of votes, if nothing else. If even a small number of the "right" figures could be interested, it might go a long way in furthering the cause of which we speak. As I told Henny, just my two cents, heheheheheh. Regards from the flood plain, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:36:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >After reading the EMails from all over the world these past few weeks >regarding the claims that I am a "spy," (and other issues) I feel that I >should respond to set the record straight. Normally, I do not waste my >time on such drivel, but I will on this one occasion. > Anyone wishing to check this easily can, as my previous book, >Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, lists in the >10 page acknowledgements section, virtually everyone at Claris I >used to work with! My former supervisor's name is also mentioned. >I left Claris shortly after my book came out in early 1996. > However, while I did work at Claris, I would get calls on occasion >by officials at Lawrence Livermore Labs to consult with them on >various issues. I did do some consulting, and did maintain my ties >through the years up until the end of the Persian Gulf War. >Incidentally, having worked for LLNL and specifically the same group >that Bob Lazaar claims to have worked for, this is how I KNOW he is >not telling the truth about Area 51, etc. Briefly, the issue isn't Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory or Los Alamos National Laboratory. THE ISSUE in the Lazar claims regards the specific agency Bob claims he worked for. I worked for the SAME agency (and unlike Bob, I still have my badge and don't need to "recreate" it [conveniently] from memory.) I have many friends at this agency and worked there at that time and was known as "THE UFO person," (there was even a big article in the press about them hiring a UFO buff like me, it was front page stuff in a big color article) so this is why I know Lazar is not telling the truth. If I had not been there at that time, I wouldn't know any of this. Thanks, and I apologise for the typo regarding Mr. Lazar. I admit I was thinking of his nickname at the time. -Kal-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:09:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:56:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Per Victorian and Joyner on Greer/Starlight... >>Based on information and facts before us, I consider the >>chances of success for Greer and his team extremely slim, >>if not, non-existent. My notion is not to strike a negative >>note. >>I found it odd, as well, that Greer had touted, originally, >>the inclusion of "Guy Kirkwood" as one of his "military >>witnesses." >Look, Greer is doing his best for all of us. People make mistakes, >so give the man a break. Henny, I don't want to appear as being derisive in respect to what Greer's aims are... But, in the same thought, are his aims exactly what we might think they are?? Heh heh, sorry, just stirring the pot, as they say. }:+> >>This begs to wonder, as well, just how stable the rest of Greer's >>witness pool is. I believe that a complete investigative dossier >>would need to be compiled on each before rushing of to Congress >>with unchecked statements and assertions. >Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. >Volunteers? Well, now that may be true in part. But I seem to remember seeing an advertisement somewhere in regard to "membership" in CSETI. Am I pipe-dreaming here? Can anybody straighten me out?? Heh. >>It is a shame to see Mitchell associated with this official-looking, >>yet apparently questionable group. >Mitchell is not God, not a fool either and can think for himself. Indeed. But, from my take on the gentleman, he does seem to have a genuine and forthright interest in the phenomenon. I'm not too sure about the rest of the Greer entourage; I say this because it simply is true... I'm not sure about them. I don't know who the rest are, and don't know what their stances or perspectives are on the issue. If "Kirkwood" is an average sampling, then I have grave misgivings. >>It would not come as a surprise to see his collective >>efforts toyed with for a while, and manuvered into divertive >>avenues, several of which open as options. >>Agreed. We already know what the First Lady, and apparently the >>President, think of the endeavors of ufology. I would like to see >>a list of exactly what officials in Washington were contacted, who >>they are affiliated with in terms of special interest groups or >>offices, and what their actual roles are in government. Has this >>been provided? >No. Progress is served with anonimity here. We're talking about >people who have reputations. Now here I must pointedly disagree, Henny. Progress is not served with anonimity, from my humble perspective. If Greer and company are truly trying to break the credibility barrier in the environs of Washington, I think just the opposite is called for. If the group Dr. Greer presents is truly as stellar as is touted, then let them be known and bring a strong voice to the discussions. Therein is the answer, when dealing with "officialdom." Just my humble opinion. Regards from the prairielands, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Armen Victorian From: Jerry Anderson <UFOMEK@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:09:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:21:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Armen Victorian >Date: 21 Apr 97 10:29:24 EDT >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Armen Victorian >Jerry Anderson did an excellent job in revealing >Armen/Henry's lineage for us all but then, >like so many people on this list, went and >spoiled the 'freedom of info' angle by >cryptifying an incident involving Henry: >Why the obfustication about who you mean Jerry? >This is just covering one mystery with another. >How can you expect people to take you seriously >when you are making what are effectively serious >allegations of theft against an esteemed member >of the UFO research community. For the benefit >of the list I'll tell them that the person, >Mr E, who you refer to is Eric Morris of the >Cheshire UFO Study thingy. The 'crash/retrieval >you mention was allegedly at the St Mawgn base. >Why didn't Eric publish the photos of the c/r >if he had them? >Also it seems that what you are saying is that >Henry A. stole documents from Eric Morris and >then offered to sell him them back. Why didn't >Eric go to the Police? Where's the proof of >*any* of this? >Let's say what we mean eh? >Bests >Andy This posting has been answered to Andy Roberts direct. Jerry Andrson Co-ordinator UFOMEK http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project 1947: Peter Gersten Speaks Out - May 17 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 08:48:04 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:58:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947: Peter Gersten Speaks Out - May 17 >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:07:57 -0400 >From: Anastasia Wietrzychowska <MufonCT@AOL.COM> >Subject: PETER GERSTEN SPEAKS OUT - May 17th!!! >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >ATTENTION ALL CT. MA, NY, NH, MD, RI, ME LIST MEMBERS: >AFTER 15 YEARS, PETER GERSTEN BREAKS HIS SILENCE! Anastasia, Will you be making a video of this talk? I'm sure many of us would be very interested, but simply can't come due to other obligations. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:09:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:59:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:22:43 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefin Per van der Pluijm and Bagchus on Greer/Starlight... >>Greer is financing all his UFO activities out of hiw own pockets. >>Volunteers? >Most people on this list pay their research from their own pockets, and do >this besides working on a regular job, without any sponsorship. Bravo, Karel. Heh heh, being a "working stiff," I can back you up on that one. 8+) It sometimes becomes quite a concern, juggling time and resources between making a living and one's interests. Most of us must make do, financially, with what we have in respect to research endeavors. >I'm not >sure where Greer pays all those lunches and dinners from, but when I look >at www.cseti.org under "how to become a member" I get a strange feeling >about him; >Levels of Membership: >Friend of CSETI: $40-$59/year (10% off conference fees) >Contributor: $60-$100/year (20% off conference fees) >Sustaining Member $101-$500/year (33% off) >Benefactor: $501-$2,000/year (50% off) >Starlight Member: $2,001-$10,000 Lifetime Member (50% off) >Research Founder: Over $10,000 Lifetime Member and lifetime complimentary > conference status >Corporate /Organization: $60/year minimum (for one membership) Ah, okay, this is what I was trying to remember, in my earlier message to Henny, and the list in general, on this subject. I knew that there were concessions for paying members, but couldn't quote anything of substance. I have no qualms, I must hurry to say, about sponsorship and investment in trying to bring this subject to the attention of those who can open the doors on the truth. My point was that I didn't think Dr. Greer was footing the bill all by himself on this. After seeing this in the various levels, though, it does make me wonder how the distribution works. I would love to see funds of this nature diverted to organizations like FUFOR (to which I have absolutely no ties or affiliations, I should add), at least in part. Regards from the land of armadillos, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:06:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-22 01:51:32 EDT, you write: > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:08:52 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:41:45 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > In a message dated 97-04-21 02:33:34 EDT, Henny writes: > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > > Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' > > Hi List, > > This week a book was published called 'Left at East Gate', > > which deals with a UFO incident at the RAF bases Bentwaters > > and Woodbridge in 1980 and is written by ex-USAF servicemen > > Larry Warren and Peter Robbins (spelling last name not sure). > > The case has more evidence to support it than the Roswell > > incident. > > Does someone have the name of the publisher and/or the ISBN? > The publisher is Marlowe & Company and I've seen the book at > Barnes and Nobles Bookstores. > The problem with it is that Larry Warren was not physically at > Bentwaters for the first two nights of activity. He was in Germany. > He invented a third night so that he could plug himself into the > events. The confusion about the dates of the events come, not > from conflicting testimony of the participants, but from Warren > who was not there. If there was no third night, then there could be > no involvement by Warren. > The Bendwaters case seems to be a solid one, as long as you pay > no attention to Larry Warren. > KRandle >Dear Kevin, >Even Colonel Halt's memo refers to three nights, him being witness to the >last two I believe. What eveidence do you have to show that Larry Warren >was not there on the third night. I would be interested to know. >All the best, >Philip. Dear Philip: Please read the Halt memo again. It refers to two nights, not three. And, I have a copy of a tape in which Halt and Warren talk about the case. Halt said, "You're aware that the story you've told or the stories you've told don't fit in with what I recollect and other witnesses recollect." Warren responds, "Oh, yes." Later in the tape Halt talks of two separate nights of the events. None of this explains the fact that Warren was not physically present at Bentwaters on the first two nights and there is no evidence of a third night without Warren's tale. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:28:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:04:38 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump Hello Michael .. you answered Joachim: >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:45:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 >>Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>Organization: Welt am Draht >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time >>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>Hello! >>Here's something we retrieved for you: >>--------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- >>Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 >>By Robert Uhlig, Technology correspondent >>It is official. UFO's do not exist, aliens have never visited >>Earth and all flying saucer sightings are now referred by the >>military to private organisations, the American Defense Department >>said yesterday. ....snip.... >>No UFO reported, investigated or evaluated posed a threat to >>America and there was no evidence that the UFO's were >>extra-terrestrial vehicles, he added. ....snip.... >>Most sightings of supposed UFO's could be explained either by >>weather conditions, such as lightning or unusual cloud formations, >>or by aircraft movements, he said. JC: Michael....if you haven't already, please see the address below and follow its links: >----start here---- Re: Pentagon Denies Interest In UFOs http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/apr/m07-002.shtml >-----end here---- >So, my brothers and sisters, let us vow, not to be ensnared by their >plans. Let us maintain a ballanced composure and document our >research, as well as posts to others. We should alway maintain a >database, or backup of our material just in case we are ever called >upon to "prove" our contentions. By creating our database, we can, >if necessary, years later, pull up our letter to "someone" and show >that we did indeed make an attempt to verify or document a case. ....snip.... JC: Yes, and additionally to maintaining our own, this is why I personally feel Glenn Campbell's user-maintainable database located in California, USA is an extremely valuable tool. If you've got researched UFO information you'd like to share with others, you can now easily reference it in one central place on the web accessible by all. (i.e. The same database used to store UFO UpDates mail list messages.) The address to peruse is: UFO Master Index http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/ Researchers from all over the world can add to this handy database to make it easier for any of us to access information we are trying to locate. It's like a card catalog in a library only 1000 times better. Check it out. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | mchristo |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:15:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:55:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 Below is my response to Kal Korff's posting to UFO UpDates. > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! > After reading the EMails from all over the world these past few > weeks regarding the claims that I am a "spy," (and other issues) I > feel that I should respond to set the record straight. Normally, I > do not waste my time on such drivel, but I will on this one occasion. 1) Let me state here that before this Kal Korff has not contacted me nor have I contacted Kal by email or any other means except on the MSNBC chat. So I haven't written to him from all over the world, although I have travelled to over 70 countries at one time or another. 2) What I said is quoted below from my sidebar to a conversation two other individuals were having in UFO UpDates on Billy Meier and Kal's book. I have no interest in the Billy Meier story, unfortunately this means I probably won't be buying Kal's book on Meier. To the following conversation: Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Date: Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:31:03 -0000 From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Michael Hessemann pleads... It's time for an objective re-investigation of the Meier case - not by individuals like Korff (who already in 1981, when he was still a schoolboy, called the Meier case "the most infamous hoax in ufology") or Burgin (who was never willing even to listen to Meier and his witnesses), but by scientists and experienced researchers. And what if the new 'objective' investigator comes to similar conclusions about the nature of the Meier affair? Will Hessemann reject him or her also? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com My contribution: Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's ties to the American intelligence community? So many investigators seems to have this connection. Might make one wonder about his objectivity. This association was determined during conversation with him during the MSNBC web promotion for his book debunking the Roswell incident. To paraphrase Carl Sagan (may he rest in peace): The absence of evidence of an individual's connections in the UFO field to intelligence operations is not the evidence of absence (it may just mean you are not investigating deeply enough). > Kal Korff Being a Spy/Intelligence Agent > I am NOT a "spy," nor do I work for any government agency. You say you do not work for any government agency, is that just now? Did you in the past work for any company which contracts in any way with any intelligence agency, i.e. a governmental agency or proxy such as proprietary intelligence company? Yet in the fourth of your paragraphs below you do say that in the past you did consult for the government on anti-terrorism issues. That is work isn't it? Which agency, company or organization did you consult for? > YEARS ago, (late 1980s, early 1990s) I worked at Lawrence Livermore > National Laboratory (LLNL)and was assigned to the "Star Wars" project > (among other duties). And yes, like EVERYONE there, I did have a > security clearance, which is mandatory for employment at LLNL. Big deal. > However, in 1989 (in May) I quit working at the> Lab fulltime and went > to work for Claris Corporation, which is a software > subsidiary of Apple Computer, Inc. I then spent the next 6.5 YEARS > there, and was on the HyperCard development team, among others. A great product, Hypercard. > Claris makes such bestselling software packages for the Macintosh > and PC as FileMaker Pro, ClarisWorks, AppleWorks, etc. > Anyone wishing to check this easily can, as my previous book, > Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, lists in the 10 page > acknowledgements section, virtually everyone at Claris I used to work > with! My former supervisor's name is also mentioned. I left Claris > shortly after my book came out in early 1996. > However, while I did work at Claris, I would get calls on occasion by > officials at Lawrence Livermore Labs to consult with them on various > issues. > I did do some consulting, and did maintain my ties through the years up > until the end of the Persian Gulf War. Incidentally, having worked for > LLNL and specifically the same group that Bob Lazaar claims to have > worked for, this is how I KNOW he is not telling the truth about Area > 51, etc. Kal let's have a facts check here. You stated that you worked for the "same group" that Robert Lazar did. Please explain for the readership of this list why you say that Bob Lazar (not Lazaar, try to be correct about spelling last names, if you don't like others mispelling your name then please extend the same courtesy to others, don't be hypocritical) worked for LLNL (Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory), while Lazar says he has worked for LANL (Los Alamos National Laboratory)? Why don't you provide the researchers who read this list a checkable name or identification of this "group", including names of your supervisors and verifiable documentation for this claim? Go ahead make some UFO researchers day, spill the beans to George Knapp. Or will you just leave your statement about Robert Lazar hanging there to obfuscate the issue further; thereby, damaging your credibility for the readers of this list; its your choice. You posted that that statement to this list, run with it. > As to my consulting for the government on anti-terrorist issues, unlike > certain "UFOlogists", I believe very strongly that international > terrorists MUST be stopped, and I do NOT DENY that I have helped the > U.S. government (through computers) deal with certain terrorist groups. Who are these certain UFOlogists you are referring to? Sounds to me like "certain UFOlogists" who would encourage international terrorists must be a dastardly crew. So by your own admission you state that you did consult for the government on anti-terrorist issues. I have correctly stated this factually. Since I never have or had to make a statement public or private on this issue of international terrorism before; let me go on record here that I also think international terrorists MUST be stopped. At least Kal and I agree on that issue. I would also like to go on record and add that if extra-terrestrials exist and if they are terrorists too (although I wonder how one will establish either of these facts to public satisfaction), then I also feel they MUST be stopped. > Hasn't it occurred to anyone critizing me for this that it's probably > just a matter of time before some terrorist group manages to construct > a nuclear weapon and will use it on innocent people? I did not criticize you, nor did I criticize you for your consultation work for government agencies (unnamed). I have relatives that worked in the intelligence community and I didn't/don't criticize them either. The work you have done is honorable and probably essential to the security of this country. No one can or should find fault in this. Consulting is a respectable occupation, I have worked as a consultant myself although not in matters of national security. If you have done your consulting well then we should not have to be worrying about terrorist groups constructing nuclear weapons and using it on innocent people like the readers of this list. I can assure you though Kal that if I do find the person or persons who criticized you I will make them stand closer to ground zero than either you or I...However as to where you should stand, I think its between the critic and me, i.e. closer to ground zero because you should stand behind your own work as a consultant. > I am all for trying to halt such activities. So am I (I assume we are talking about international terrorism). > If this makes me a "spy," then those who advocate such crap should have > their heads examined. You are the only one who used that emotionally provocative "s.." word. This certainly would not make you a "s..". So this may be a moment for reflection and introspection. You did in fact state that you were a consultant to a government agency(ies) on anti-terrorism, agency(ies) which have not named. I merely repeated your own statements. Is it unlikely that such an agency would be in the intelligence community? I ask the reader must judge for him or herself. For those unfamiliar as to where to look I suggest: "The Intelligence Establishment" by Harry Howe Ransom, Harvard University Press, 1970 chapter III United States Intelligence: Historical Background pp 48-81 and chapter II The Nature of Intelligence pp. 12-47. Kal you mentioned that you had engaged in UFO research since you were in High School. Didn't it ever dawn on you that if you were to work professionally, e.g. consulting, for a government agency, working against terrorists that that association might be potentially seen by the readers of ufological publications as a possible basis for questioning your objectivity as a UFO researcher (The complex and confusing association of the intelligence community with the UFO phenomenon existed long before you came on the scene). Is it unreasonable to see yourself in that context. Besides, what ever happened to old-fashioned journalistic candor? Did Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. ever conceal the fact that he worked for the OSS Research and Analysis Branch? He certainly did not! (see the Introduction (pp. xiii-xix) Schlesinger wrote in the book "The CIA's Secret Operations" by Harry Rositzke, Readers Digest Press, 1977). Does Schlesinger's employment history mean I should I stop reading the New York Times? Could Schlesingers work in the intelligence community explain why the Air Force's Weaver report explaining the Roswell case as a Mogul balloon was placed in the prime page position of the first page of the Sunday edition of the New York Times? Any proof of this is left as an exercise to the reader, I can't even imagine this could be possible, and certainly wouldn't attempt to prove this. Who was it that said "Me think he doth protest to much". Maybe you Kal, by unjustifiably attacking me wish to capitalize on your security clearance and consulting work to enhance your notoriety in the UFO research field and gain free publicity for yourself? Others have achieved their success without schoolyard attacks. Stanton Friedman has claimed security clearances yet he has established himself as a UFO researcher without accusing anyone of slander for discussing that he had security clearances. Kevin Randle worked for Air Force Intelligence, so what? Raymond Fowler worked for an Air Force Intelligence group and the NSA yet that hasn't impacted his ability to conduct research in this field or his standing as a researcher. Does he deny his service associations? > The MSNBC Chat > I remember the MSNBC chat, and how high-paced and stressful it was. I > thought I answered all questions thoroughly (except those I missed), > but I guess not. The truth is, the chat traffic overwhelmed both me > and the Microsoft monitor. Well as you were a former Apple software developer I can certainly understand your harsh feelings towards Microsoft but spare the human monitor, blame the software. > Furthermore, the system Microsoft uses is somewhat out of date, and it > had a limit of 256 characters before you would have to hit "Enter." > So, I would be merrily typing away when I would hear a "beep" and then > I would have to stop my train of thought, hit "Enter" and then try and > continue. That's why some of my answers were choppy. It certainly > wasn't real-time. I see you agree the software WAS at fault. I predicted this and I was not even there. > Additionally, I am a two finger typist! While I type fairly quickly, > Microsoft gave me one of those "Ergonomic" keyboards that they make for > me to use, and it only made things harder on me due to the fact that I > don't type "normally." A computer consultant who types with two fingers! Now this is really novel to my experience. What ever happened to typing classes in junior high school. If we didn't type with ten fingers the teacher would rap our hands with a ruler. Oh! the younger generation, is lost! This is a clear sign of the deterioration of our educational system and I forsee this will lead to the decline and fall of America as an imperial power. I also wonder how this impacts billing for those consulting engagements? Should we be paying for someone doing computer consulting who can't touch type? Taxpayers want to know! > I do not remember being evasive about the stupid charge that I am a > "spy," nor any other issue, but I do remember hesitating to answer any > more questions about it because I had to pause for a moment and try and > remember whether it was okay to mention the nature of my anti-terrorist > assignments, because it was many years ago. Yes, you could not remember a "stupid charge that I am a 'spy'," because that charge was never made. You were asked whether or not you had served in the military and whether or not you had ever worked for an intelligence agency. I now understand your hesitation in responding as at that time I did not know that a computer consultant might be a two fingered typist. I imagine that could be an occupational handicap and I do not want to you unfairly accuse you of being evasive when you are someone who is "typing challenged". I apologize for saying you were evasive as I could not recognize an occupational handicap over the Internet. No one ever 'charged' you with anything. You were only asked two questions: 1) If you had ever served in the military? 2) Have you ever worked for an intelligence organization? < snip > > In my upcoming book on Roswell, for the first time ever, smoking gun > proof is presented which shows exactly what the Roswell object REALLY > was. Enquiring minds want to know. Okay, okay so I will break down and buy your Roswell book. > Yes there was a cover-up, no doubt. It also destroys the claims in > Hesemann and Mantle's book (I was given an advanced copy of their > manuscript, and quote from it) and for the first time ever the military > files of Major Jesse Marcel are published. Unfortunately, he was not a > credible witness, either. Maybe you can also apply these investigative skills and connections to obtaining Sheridan Cavitt's service records and the reports he filed as Roswell's counter-intelligence officer on his investigation. Or did you fail to investigate Cavitt and include his service material also? Frankly I have read the material about Marcel in another source besides your book and it is what we used to call a character assasination job and hardly discredits him as a witness. > There's lots of other material, and lots of original research, including > new facts about Bill Moore, Stanton Friedman, the Bolender memo, the > mythical UFO "museum" in Japan (another Hesemann fantasy) and alien > autopsy. I already heard the Air Force's two versions of the coverup, does this mean there is yet another? I know, I know, I have to buy and then read YOUR book. > You people need to understand that I am NOT a UFO skeptic. I am simply > a UFO researcher who is trying to make sense of this phenomenon. That's > it. It's that simple. > I am amazed at how hard this concept has been for many in the > UFO field to comprehend. Why? Because although many of you profess to > be just "researchers," the truth is many of you have some sort of > agenda or preconceived idea(s) as to what UFOs are. I think you are saying in a roundabout way that you are a UFO believer. Are we to assume that you have no agenda too? > I, on the other hand, believe that each UFO case must be taken on its > own, individual merits, and analyzed accordingly. I do not profess to > know just what UFOs are, but I do maintain that whatever the answers > ultimately turn out to be, humanity can only learn from those answers. > Therefore, I advocate the serious, objective, and scientific study of > UFO reports. I state this in my Meier expose book and re-state the very > same point rather painfully in the conclusion of my new book on Roswell. > This is hardly the position of a "debunker" as Hesemann erroneously > labels me. Here you state your agenda. That's pretty cosmic, "whatever the answers ultimately turn out to be, humanity can only learn from those answers". I wonder if from all the time you spent studying Meier if some Cosmic Philosophy didn't rub off. Also why advocate the study of reports? Why not advocate the organization of field research by well funded, qualified scientists and scientific organizations like FUFOR does. Well, who am I to advocate that, Dr. James McDonald did and look what good that did him. Researching historical cases is interesting to some and not others, to each his own. As to what the position of a "debunker" is let the reader be alert. > For the record, I had a UFO sighting myself, years ago, and remain > intrigued by the subject. This sounds sincere, is this is your bonafide? > Unfortunately, I spent 16 years studying both the Meier and > Roswell cases (I even lectured with Stanton Friedman when I was in high > school, he can verify I am not a spy), and both have turned out to be > rather disappointing. Stanton Friedman reads these UFO UpDates. A character reference from him would be interesting for when you were in High School. However a logical, thorough researcher would note that it would be irrelevant to your activities since then. I would rather see a character reference from the head of the agency that you did your anti-terrorism consulting for, and preferably on the agency letterhead via registered mail and with return receipted envelops. > Yet I challenge anyone to try and explain the object I saw, in the > presence of other witnesses. That's what makes this field so interesting. I doubt that the readers of this mailing list will accuse you of hallucinating as they recognize this as a common experience, although I doubt readers of newsgroups like alt.skeptic - would be so charitable. > Despite the fact that I am very familiar with everything that's flying, > I still cannot explain what it was that I saw. An interesting statement. What gives you such confidence? You are " familiar with EVERYTHING that's flying". Are you adept at recognizing the experimental and research aircraft of all foreign countries? Did you have the need to know about ALL American aircraft, Skunkworks developments and clearance for that? Were you cleared for information on the Russian advanced development bureaus too? Have you taken aircraft recognition courses? When? Where? How long have you subscribed to Jane's, Aviation Week and Space Technology or other defense publications? < snip > > To those who think I am a "spy," once again I am NOT, and my > background is easily verifiable and my 23 years in the UFO field has > been documented through articles I've written and interviews I've > given to the press ever since I was in high school! MUFON even > published some of these back in 1980. Yes, your background should be easily verifiable. So don't just talk about it. > I think Gary owes me an apology now, and if he continues to slander my > good name by spreading such lies about me then I might have to resort > to suing him. And I WILL, if he persists. I am not clear as to what you find slanderous or offensive. a) Your own statements regarding your employment history? b) The dissemination of your own statements? c) Pointing out that you have not named the "governmental agency" that you did your anti-terrorism consulting for? d) My conclusion that the governmental responsibility for anti-terrorism lies in the intelligence community? (That's documented in the governments own publications and books in any library - no news there!) And in this post I have added statements that: e) Anti-terrorism consulting enhances the security of our nation. f) That consulting is an honorable occupation. g) You are reluctant to identify who you worked for. The American Heritage Dictionary (a handy one) defines slander as: 1. The utterance of defamatory statements injurious to the reputation or well-being of a person. 2. A malicious statement or report. My lawyer puts this in more elaborate terms but the essence is the same. His firm is on a retainer so whether he works for it or not he gets paid by me, I don't like the idea that he gets rich while I work and he is idle. If there is a mea culpa to be had here what is it for? If you object to being associated with researchers and writers in ufology who have had security clearances then I wonder if Stanton Friedman will write you a reference or talk to you at UFO conferences anymore. If you object to being associated with researchers and writers in ufology who have had security clearances and worked for intelligence agencies then I think this could really cut down on the number of people who will speak to you at UFO conferences. I wish to state here publicly that if you should gain any notoriety resulting from these communications which INCREASES sales of your books then I think that I should be entitled to a small but fair publicity agent fee (15% of gross royalties, we can negotiate this) which should be paid on the first of the month on a quarterly basis. The corrected spelling of my name is Alevy so please use that on the checks. If the sales of your books DECREASE as a result of these stunning revelations in UFOupdates then it was all due to YOUR decision to forgo paying a publicity agent for the promotion of your book. As you state in a paragraph toward the end of your post you did your OWN publicity; you seemed to have thought you could save the expense of a publicists' salary without it having a dire effect on the bottom line of your book sales. Somewhere that leaves a poorer publicist, have you ever considered the human side of such a penurious decision? If you blew your cover and COMPROMISED National Security by revealing that you worked in anti-terrorism then face your control agent like a man and retake the relevant courses in tradecraft. At least when we recall our agents, we don't offer them the one bullet alternative. The last time I saw Aldrich Ames he was giving interviews from his jail cell. That does makes one wonder if the Russian approach isn't better. If I stumbled onto a LEGITIMATE National Security issue then you should have taken it through the appropriate channels not UFOupdates. > My last name is KORFF, by the way, Gary Levy, and NOT KOROFF. > My ancestry is German, not Russian. I fail to see why you introduce that here except to confuse the fact that you are an American who has/is serving his country patriotically, working against terrorism. I'm not a native American either so I think that would classify both of us as of immigrant parentage. > You can't even get my last name right, let alone the real facts about me. If I can speak on behalf of Robert Lazar - let only he who is without sin cast stones. You also got the spelling of my last name wrong too, my last name is ALEVY, not LEVY Kal Korff, so should I comment about how the misspelling of my last name could confuse me with makers of rye bread? You owe me one since I had to correct your spelling of Robert Lazar's name. I again fail to see how I have not gotten the "real facts". You confirmed in your posting that you DID consult for the government on anti-terrorism and have not stated the name of the agency you consulted for. Last I recall, the governmental responsibility for anti-terrorism is a counter-intelligence function of the "intelligence community" (this includes agencies having both domestic and foreign jurisdiction) I do not recall the Agriculture or Consumer Affairs Departments having such jurisdiction (my apologies to Jan Aldrich for the terminology - intelligence community). > Too bad you didn't read my book on the Meier case before putting your > foot in your own mouth, otherwise there would have been no doubt. Seems you do that well enough for yourself, you don't need my help. I have not had an interest in Meier although the fact that you have spent 16 years looking into him suggests that maybe I ought to reconsider my disinterest. Or perhaps as Micheal Hesseman suggests you really went down a wrong path, he notes - "Korff (who already in 1981, when he was still a schoolboy, called the Meier case "the most infamous hoax in ufology". If you knew this was a hoax right away, why did you study it for so long, was it worth spending 16 years to come to the same conclusion? However, I will buy your book if I decide to look into Meier but I won't promise to spend 16 years on him. I'd appreciate if you or any other reader could provide a reading list on Meier and I'll add it to my research projects list (there goes my book budget). < snip > > As far as Bob Shell saying my "spy" background should be investigated, > I suggest that he team up with Hesemann and Mantle and form yet another > International "Research" Team and "expose" me. I would rather have these > clowns spend their time chasing fantasies rather than continuing to > meddle in (and muddy) the UFO database of cases which deserve far > better than the sorry, inexcusable efforts of these three stooges. Watch it Kal, I think you just slandered Bob Shell, Micheal Heseman and Philip Mantle according to the legal definition. > PLEASE investigate me....and maybe while you three are busy chasing > down a new, non-event, the rest of us can try and get some credible > work done. > Lastly, I have no publicist, it is just me. MSNBC featured my work, > (like CNN, FOX and others have) because they saw it as a credible > investigation. Good marketing! As I have asked Bill Hamilton in the past concerning media coverage of UFO events in Phoenix, to which he responded graciously; perhaps you can explain to the readers of this list the process by which you came to be featured on MSNBC. > Hope these answers clarify a few issues that should never have been > "issues" to begin with.... : ) So do I. Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | totlresrch |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Project Starlight From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 09:54:37 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:07:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:54:17 -0400 >From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> >Subject: Project Starlight >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> [snip] >Whilst he might have all the good will and the BELIEF in what >he does, those interacting with him might not share the >same notion. [snip] Could you clarify this a bit? Do you mean interactions with *terrestrial* entities? Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Lake Ontario Activity 03-22-97 to 04-20-97 From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:32:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:01:14 -0400 Subject: Lake Ontario Activity 03-22-97 to 04-20-97 Hello List, I have been enjoying the views over our lake for the last month with some friends. These accounts may be of some interest. However, for those who don't enjoy a long read, please discard. Best regards, JJ -- "BEAM ME UP ! ! ! There's nothing happening down here! Well...not much! If YOU find anything, then please let me know: jarvis@globalserve.net On Saturday, 22nd of March, 1997, the CSETI Southern Ontario Working Group went down to Lake Ontario for a skywatch, mostly of the Hale-Bopp Comet. Weather conditions were perfect. Clear skies, cold at around -12 degrees C without the windchill. Members of the working group were J.J., J.M., and M.H. We started our session at 19.30 hrs. We stood on the beach and looked north in order to see the comet which was astounding in its beauty. Then J.M. turned towards the lake and called our attention to an orange light that was over the water, some way out. We looked at the light through binoculars, and it seemed to be stationary. We then turned back towards the north to continue looking at the comet. It was rather chilly, so M.H. suggested going back to her house for warm-up drinks, and suggested that we could come back to the lakeshore a little later. This we did and we eventually returned at 21.15 hrs. We kept our eyes in a south east direction and then saw another orange light. It hovered over the lake. Time was 21.36. The next "orange orb" appeared at 22.05, hovered for a while, and gradually sank down into the water in front of what appeared to be a lit up beacon or marker of some kind. Another orb appeared at 22.09 and hovered. At 22.24 a very large orb appeared from "nowhere" just like the others. It hovered for a while, came down almost to the water's surface, then rose up again, making for the direction of the U.S. The fifth orb, at 22.35, appeared, hovered and then seemingly disappeared from view. On Sunday, 23rd March, 1997, three members of the working group went to the same location. Members present were J.J., E.J. and M.H. Weather conditions were fair, good visibility, temperature around +4 Degrees C but damp. The first orb appeared in the direction of a nearby power generating station, and then there were three orbs, appearing close together timewise, exactly where we had seen them the previous night. It has been noted that when these orbs hover, they change in light intensity, thus giving an appearance of pulsation. As the orb sits on the water's surface, it produces a reflection, and then seems to disappear down into its reflection. The three orbs were all visible simultaneously. The orb over the power generating station appeared at 20.13 and the three orbs over the lake all appeared within seconds of each other at 20.20. They simply "appeared", hovered, and submerged, yet again by this lit up marker. At 20.37 another orb appeared to the left of our lit up marker. It seemed to just sit motionless, and there was an aircraft flying above it. This was useful in showing the totally different appearance of the two objects both in colour and flight characteristics. On Monday, March 24th, 1997, two members of the working group went to the same location. Members present were M.H., S.R. and B.R. This was a very brief session owing to time constraints, but two orbs appeared, one at 19.58 and one at 20.00. Both appeared, hovered and submerged in the same place. On Tuesday, March 25th, 1997, two members of the working group went to the same location. Members present were J.J. and C.Y. Weather conditions were poor. Strong winds, heavy rain and major light pollution from a movie production team located about 200 yards along the beach. No sightings whatsoever. On Wednesday, 26th March, 1997, two members of the working group went to the same location. Members present were J.J. and D.M. Weather conditions fair, good visibility, low light pollution, temperature around +2 decrees C. D.M. had astronomical binoculars to make our viewing considerably better. The light marker was no longer there, but we could see the farther shore, and a line of bright orange lights which pulsated constantly, went down to one light, and then changed back to three lights. Just as the binoculars were set up on the tripod at 19.30, a large orange orb appeared in the usual location. The angle from the horizon at which they usually appear is roughly 5 to 15 degrees. This orb just appeared, hovered for quite some time, and then rose up into the high cloud. A second, much brighter and larger orb appeared five minutes later. It almost seemed to be approaching closer but slightly towards the north west. I took a lamp and flashed briefly at the orb. The orb stopped moving completely, hovered, and then started reversing! It then just disappeared. No more sightings! On Thursday, March 26th, 1997, two working group members went to the same location. Working group members present were J.J. and M.H. Weather conditions poor. Cold, damp and virtually nil visibility due to fog. No sightings. On Friday, March 27th, 1997, three working group members went to the same location. Working group members present were J.J., M.H. and J.M. Weather conditions poor. Choppy water with waves up to 2 metres. Mild temperatures around 14 degrees C. Three orange orbs appeared almost simultaneously at 20.00 hrs. They just appeared from nowhere, and then disappeared again. Torrential rain caused an early retreat! On Saturday, March 28th, 1997, two working group members went to a different location west of the regular site. Working group members present were J.J. and E.J. Weather conditions poor. Shore visibility was fair, mild temperature at around +6 degrees C, but a bank of fog out over the water. No sightings. D.M. did not accompany the group. She viewed the lake from her residence much further east along the shore. She had looked up and seen one orange orb at 19.50 hrs.,much higher up than we normally see them. She then saw two vertical shafts of light next to each other, measuring about 12 inches at arm's length, behind the clouds. She then saw a configuration of lights close to the water's surface at 20.20 hrs. A set of three white lights and one red light. This red light appeared to move back and forth along the horizontal line of white lights. The working group took Easter Day off because WE HAD A WHITE EASTER! Back on duty tomorrow evening! CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT WEDNESDAY, 3RD APRIL, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: JJ and DM. SET UP AT SITE: 20.00 hrs. E.S.T. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Cool, at around + 1 degree C. Quite still but there is a damp haze which makes it feel colder. Water fairly calm. Visibility good around the shoreline. Slightly misty over the water. The LIGHT PILLAR is here again tonight. 20.43 h. First orange object appeared very briefly, then disappeared. Slightly wider than normal shape seen. Appeared at the usual height of about 5 degrees above the horizon. 20.54 h. Multi-coloured object look like sparkling colourful diamonds. Appears to be rotating in counter-clockwise direction. Disappeared very quickly. 20.59 h. Orange object appears, but on closer inspection, through the high-power binoculars, it seems to be multi-coloured. Disappeared. 21.06 h. Multi-coloured, jewel-like object appears, and immediately disappears. These objects seem a bit closer tonight. They are over the water rather than over the far shore. THE BOAT INCIDENT. A very strange boat appeared from the Hamilton/Burlington direction. It was ablaze with lights - a floating light-show!!! These lights gave the appearance of flashing, and some seem to pulsate, probably due to the atmospheric effect. Darlene and I thought that we could see an "orange orb" a little way back and on top of this structure. (Are we losing it?) This is not a "normal" boat. It made its way across the water, west to east, and passed in front of the LIGHT PILLAR. Then it headed off in the direction of northern New York State. I decided to video this boat affair, and tracked it as it approached the LIGHT PILLAR. When replaying this bit of filming, I see, to the boat's right, a very faint image of one of the orange orbs coming down to the water's surface and submerging. 21.13 h. Red flashing object appears, and then starts going upwards. This object faded somewhat, and another one appeared. Where did they go? 21.18 h. Bright red, glittery, glowing object appears. Shrinks down to a tiny spot of colour, no bigger than a pinhead. We have brought the compass, and are checking the bearings tonight. Another similar object appears, and a second. We take one object each, and try to follow their activity. Things are happening rather too fast. 21.23 h. Bright orange object appears. 21.28 h. Another bright orange object appears. This seems much wider. These two are now going towards each other, but it is difficult to get an idea of distance. They appear to be flashing to each other. NOTE: We are feeling very calm about all this now. Interesting to see how we move on to the "acceptance" level, and we are now simply logging the events, and enjoying the scene. 21.37 h. Object appears, very glittery in appearance, and seems to be rotating. Much higher up from horizon. Helicopter flies past. 21.59 h. Orange object appears momentarily. 22.00 h. Pack up for the night. AFTERTHOUGHT: Unfortunately, I had accidentally switched my audio recorder on to PAUSE, and we missed tape recording an interesting little incident. Sometime after the BOAT AFFAIR, during the time of the brief appearance of all the orange orbs, a small plane had been circling around the area over the water. During that period, we noted that the LIGHT PILLAR actually disappeared. After the plane activity had passed, the LIGHT PILLAR reappeared. JJ April 16th. 1997. 10.00 hrs. D.S.T. SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT FRIDAY, 4TH APRIL, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J., D.M. AND D.M. We set up our location at 19.30 hrs. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Mild temperatures at around 14 degrees C, but damp by the water. Visibility was good with a slight haze in the south-east over the water. Some stars visible, but no Hale-Bopp Comet. 19.38 h. First orange light at approx. 5 degrees above horizon. Brightened considerably, and gave appearance of getting larger. Duration 2 minutes. Sank down to horizon. 19.45 h. Two orange lights at approx. 8 degrees above horizon. "Sitting" next to each other but some distance between them. Momentary only. 20.01 h. Bright orange light on horizon. Sitting on what seems to be the ground, and pulsating. 20.03 h. Bright orange light possibly same as previous, moving eastwards. When it first appeared, it looked wide, almost cylinder-shaped. Slightly above ground-level. Just disappeared. 20.10 h. Bright orange light, close to horizon. Appeared and disappeared immediately. 20.20 h. Pulsating, bright orange light at almost horizon level. Rising slightly and pulsating. Sitting for 3 minutes approx. Disappeared. 20.22 h. Pulsating, bright orange light just above horizon. Just sitting there, pulsating. Brightening and dimming down. Duration more than 4 minutes. 20.28 h. "Double event" - two bright orange lights very close together, side by side, almost attached, it seems. THIS IS HUGE!!! Seemingly just above horizon. (20.29 h. Please call them by nice names, promoting love and friendship, rather than shouting at them!!!!! Name calling won't get them closer!) 20.30 h. Red flashing object, nothing like a conventional plane strobe. Almost fuzzy and hazy, but moving very fast in an easterly direction. Approx. 20 degrees above horizon. 20.35 h. Large orange light at 5 degrees above horizon. I surrepticiously flashed a couple of times with the laser pointer. Object rising up into the air at 20.36. Remaining stationary at same elevation around 10 degrees above horizon. 20.38 h. SAME object still sitting there and getting VERY bright. I flashed several times with the laser pointer. Watching for reaction, and this could be coincidence, but object's light intensity increased CONSIDERABLY! 20.00 h. Two bright orange lights in sight, simultaneously. Considerably higher, approx. 15 degrees above horizon. I am flashing with laser pointer. They become farther apart. One going in westerly direction whilst the other one is increasing in brightness. Another object coming in from the east towards the previously mentioned object. Seems to pass over the top of the other object. Both objects close to horizon. Many conventional aircraft around us at the same time. 20.41 h. Two orange lights have appeared and joined together. This combination has become REALLY BIG! I can hear and see two aircraft above us. NOT THE SAME! There are other people around us in the park, but I don't believe that they are seeing this as they don't have THE EQUIPMENT! 20.44 h. Looks like two orange lights together, appearing as a long object. 20.48 h. Large orange light at horizon level. Appears to be two lights together. Increasing in light intensity. Moved slightly in a westerly direction. Disappeared. 20.54 h. Faint orange light close to horizon. Rises to around 10 degrees above horizon. One minute later has become much brighter. Same elevation and not moving. 20.57 h. Two bright orange lights approx. 5 degrees above horizon. One pulsating. REALLY BIG NOW!! Moves slowly in a westerly direction. I flash the lazer pointer, and, coincidentally, the light becomes VERY BRIGHT. 21.00 h. Two bright orange lights appear and come close together. I flash the laser pointer. No change. One object travelling in an easterly direction, close to the horizon. 21.02 h. Bright orange light moving quite fast in an easterly direction, approx. 5 degrees above horizon. 21.03 h. Something coming up from the right (west). LOOK AT HIM!!! Rising up from ground level. Another object approaching it. Primary object dimmed down. Second object passes underneath. Brighter one is heading east. Pulsating brightly. There is that fuzzy, red hazy light again. 21.06 h. Fainter orange object went up skywards from horizon. 21.09 h. Faint orange light appears at horizon level. Flashed laser pointer. Object momentarily brightened. Object moves in westerly direction. Flashed laser pointer. Object becomes stationary. 21.16 h. Large orange light appeared moving west to east. Approx. 5 degrees above horizon and disappeared. 21.26 h. Bright orange light just ambling around! Not very bright light, moving in westerly direction. Pulsating as it moves. (NOTE: "Pulsating" indicates that the object is just slightly altering its appearance in the way of intensity of light, within narrow boundaries. "Brightening" is a huge increase in light intensity, which gives the appearance, also, of an increase in size.) 21.28 h. Bright orange light low to horizon, but just above. Stationary. Appears as a double object. Pulsating. The two objects that comprise this event take turns to brighten. LOOK AT THAT!! Dimmer, staying in same spot. Disappeared quite suddenly. 21.34 h. Gently pulsating, orange light appears. Moving in westerly direction. Very slow and steady movement. 21.40 h. Orange light low on horizon, lifted slightly from horizon. Headed east. It changed from an orange glow and became reddish in colour, and flashed on and off. It glowed orange again. I saw something like a "tail." It glowed again, whilst slowly rising up into the air. It then started heading east, and, below it, I saw a red flash. The object kept going east, and I followed it for 3 minutes. It would be bright orange, then go back to red, "flash, flash." It would go bright orange again, and the repeat the red flashing again. The whole object becomes red during the flashing sequence, and then reverts to bright orange. 21.58 h. Sudden appearance of large, bright, orange light. Immediately disappeared. Reappears in same spot. Now moving east. (We have now noticed a sudden appearance of a set of orange "runway/landing lights." There ARE some further along the horizon, and they are always there. These are similar, but we have never seen them before now. NOTE: Runway lights will be switched on at smaller airparks when there is a landing plane imminent. However, there are NO PLANES ANYWHERE!!! This light source, whatever it is, seems to become brilliant in intensity, and then completely fades away. IMPORTANT NOTE: There is NO haze or fog, so we are wondering why these lights are behaving so strangely, and what is causing their variation. Another observation regarding these "runway" lights: They are grouped in a double and triple configuration. ALSO: Do runway/landing lights normally "sequence?" I am not sure on this one. PLUS: Where are the planes? Those lights are peculiar. On checking the compass on top of the binoculars, the location of these "runway" lights shows the same bearing as the place from which the orange lights appear.) 22.00 h. Group disbands for warm-up drinks to nearby hostelry. Discussion. Plans arranged for tomorrow night's session. JJ 12.30 hrs. SATURDAY APRIL 5TH 1997. SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT MONDAY, 7TH. APRIL, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J. and D.M. We set up at our field location at 20.30 hrs. D.S.T. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Cool temperatures at around 2 degrees C with a gentle breeze off the water. No waves on water. Visibility very good, no haze or fog anywhere. All horizon lights clearly visible. Some stars and Hale-Bopp Comet seen between clouds passing over. 20.43 h. First brilliant orange light appears at about 8 degrees above the horizon from the semi-dark area to the east of St. Catherine's. Very clearly seen with naked eye. Remains stationary and pulsating. This object has appeared within two minutes of our normal activity starting time (TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE TIME CHANGE). Object disappears. Duration of sighting was 2 minutes. 20.46 h. Bright orange object appears from same location as above. Stationary, and then moves in westerly direction at approx. 8 degrees above the horizon. 20.47 h. TWO brilliant orange objects appear very close together but separated, apparently at ground level or just above. These are much brighter than the previous objects. No movement, just pulsating together. Appear from same direction, but at different elevation. Disappear very quickly. 20.48 h. Orange object, not as bright as previously, appears from same location and travels slowly west at approx. 5 degrees above horizon. No change in colour or light intensity as it moves. Gets lower to horizon and disappears at 20.49 in the vicinity of a red flashing beacon of some sort. 20.53 h. Orange object at about 5 degrees above horizon appearing from same location. This one gives the impression of "flashing." The flashing seems to be on the RIGHT side from our position, and maybe on the leading edge of the object, as it is travelling west. The flashing gives the impression of almost glittering. Not visible with the naked eye, and just visible with conventional binoculars. Activity became non-existent, and we started to pack up our gear around 21.30. There was a brief sighting of a similar object, very faintly visible, and that was the last seen during our site time. JJ APRIL 8TH.1997. 11.30 HRS. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT TUESDAY, APRIL 8TH, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J.and D.M. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Cool temperatures at around +2 degrees C. Slight breeze off the water. Water rippling, but no waves. Visibility seems good along the shore, but nothing visible on the far shore towards St. Catherine's area. HOWEVER!! The LIGHT PILLAR is back tonight. I haven't seen it since March 23rd. SET UP AT RESEARCH SITE: 20.15 HRS. D.S.T. 20.27 h. We are looking at the LIGHT PILLAR. We don't know what it is. It could be a jetty light. It reflects in the water, and seems to gently rotate or pulsate. Hard to tell. I am estimating a distance from us of 6 miles, at a compass bearing of.... degrees ..... of Southeast. Brilliant golden yellow "something" reflecting on the water. 20.59 h. We've got an orange light object appearing in the western part of the light area over St. Catherine's, and, hopefully, it will approach the LIGHT PILLAR and help to prove a theory upon which I am working. This object is approaching at about 8 to 10 degrees above the horizon. It is enormous! Very visible with the naked eye. It is to the left of the two red flashing markers. It has red on it, it is pulsating, and there is something to its right. I can just see a very bright light that will, hopefully, come closer. It is stationary, seems to have red lights, pulsating. He is actually over the water. There is a beam of light over the water. D: "My goodness...look at how big he is...Oh My!!...he is going lower to the water, and now merging with the water. He is going down into the water, My Lord!! Time 21.02. He was big. As he got closer to the water he got bigger and he was shining an orange light down on to the water, and, as he got closer, the light was bouncing off from the water up to him, and they almost merged, until he submerged. Oh!!! 21.17 h. Orange object appears coming from the same location as the last one. Moved in an easterly direction at around 5 degrees above the horizon. Rapidly disappeared. 21.41 h. Further over to the west there is a faint orange object at around 10 degrees above the horizon. Could it be hazy, or is this one much farther away? Less orange but definitely pulsating. I really don't think that it is hazy, and we can't see ANY of the lights on the St. Catherine's side. Object is changing to a more orange colour. Directly above the object we can see a conventional plane. The object is losing altitude and getting brighter. Could be farther away. I get the impression of a flashing occurring on one side of this object. A light beam appears below the object, and he is now hovering above the water. Time is 21.45...that took nearly 4 minutes from appearance to submersion. 21.58 h. We have a plane here. This isn't a commercial flight. It is heading east, and circling around. This is a very strange plane. Now going in a westerly direction. Clearly marked with xenon flashing lights. This could be a scenic flight, but at 10 o'clock at night, probably not. It is circling around the area where the orange object put down its beam and submerged. This plane is zigzagging around all over the place. We don't think that it is a helicopter because there is no noise that we can hear. It looks a bit like a search plane. The LIGHT PILLAR had completely DISAPPEARED during all this plane activity. The LIGHT PILLAR has returned. Question : Is the LIGHT PILLAR a control tower at a nearby airfield? Sure............ Would you just explain what I am seeing through this? Get your eyes through here and tell me what we are seeing !!!!!????? It's the LIGHT PILLAR. I have to talk about the LIGHT PILLAR. It is like a light hanging in mid-air, and there is a beam coming down from it. There is a reproduction of that light source on the water. It gives the appearance of a gentle rotation. D. has just noticed a plane, which could be our search plane. It is zipping around all over the place. This plane is moving at a rapid pace. JJ Saturday, April 12th. 14.30 hrs. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9TH, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J. D.M. AND D.M. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Cool temperatures at around +2 degrees C. Slight breeze off the water. Water rippling, but no waves. Visibility good at around 25 miles. SET UP AT RESEARCH SITE: 20.20 HRS. D.S.T. Still slightly light. The LIGHT PILLAR is here again tonight. (Please refer to Reports dated 22-29 March, April 3rd and 8th.) It seems to be glowing as usual. 20.22 h. Object that looks like a plane. It is very bright. It is coming in towards us right over the LIGHT PILLAR and seemingly stops. It turns, so this is probably a plane. 20.23 h. A bright orange object appears at 5 degrees above the horizon and is going down to the water to the right of the LIGHT PILLAR. It hovered for a moment and has gone into the lake. I THOUGHT THAT I HAD FOUND ANOTHER LIGHT PILLAR. However, it would seem that another orange object had come in, out of my field of vision, whilst I was reporting the previous event, changed to a lighter yellow colour, and slipped into the water to the east of the LIGHT PILLAR. As this submersion was occurring, it seemed as if there were TWO LIGHT PILLARS - TWINS !! NOTE: WHEN THE ORANGE OBJECTS GO INTO THE WATER, THEY CHANGE FROM ORANGE TO A MORE GOLDEN YELLOW COLOUR, AND DUPLICATE THE APPEARANCE OF THE LIGHT PILLAR. COMMENT: Quote from D.M. "It shone its beam and then submerged, but this all happened very, very quickly." What we have noticed is that, when the orange objects arrive, they go towards the LIGHT PILLAR. Then, when they are approaching the water's surface, near the LIGHT PILLAR, a large, golden-yellow beam of light, exactly the same colour as the object, is seemingly switched on at the bottom of the object. It looks like a golden searchlight. Then the object descends and goes into the water. (NOTE: A car has pulled up behind us on the road.) 20.31 h. A brilliant light source, similar to a plane, has just appeared above a conventional plane. It is pulsating but it is NOT orange. However, it is now very low, well below where we are seeing the conventional aircraft. We CAN see two aircraft also. Due, possibly, to the atmospheric effect, it is giving the appearance of being multi-coloured. It seems to have flashing red and white lights, but is going VERY much lower than the planes. He could be going away from us. UNKNOWN. 20.34 h. This UNKNOWN is getting lower and is at 5 degrees above the horizon, and deep orange in colour. Still appears to have a red flashing light. UNKNOWN still. I don't think that it is an aircraft. VERY DEEP ORANGE. Absolutely NO WAY is that an aircraft! The LIGHT PILLAR suddenly appears to be brightening. 20.38 h. A golden-yellow object has just duplicated the appearance of the LIGHT PILLAR, shone its huge beam downwards, descended into the water, and disappeared. I never saw this one appear because I was concentrating on the previous event. ANOMALY!!! The object from the above event has re-surfaced, and then gone into the water again slightly closer to the LIGHT PILLAR. (COMMENT: Quote from J: "I wonder if he was using this LIGHT PILLAR as a target and he "wasn't quite locked on?") (COMMENT: Quote from D.M. "The first one that I saw, when I said that it amost merged with the light from the bottom, looked like it gave off a beam. It almost looked like the bottom beam came up, the other one came down, and they merged together above the water, unlike last night, when I saw it submerge. The second one did the exact same thing. It's almost like a beam came up and caught it.") J: "Then please explain to me what we are seeing through the binoculars. It is not moving and has been there for a long time." D.M. "I think it's a beacon. I think it's to TELL THEM TO COME HOME.") 20.49 h. An apparently conventional aircraft has appeared and is following the same pattern as before, and approaching the LIGHT PILLAR. He is now above the LIGHT PILLAR. There is something over to the left, and slightly higher. Could be a plane. The first one is at 5 degrees above the horizon and the one to the east is at 8 degrees above the horizon. They look the same, and are coming in at the same shallow angle. They don't look like planes. They seem a deeper colour than planes. The one close to the LIGHT PILLAR is now at 5 degrees above the horizon, and it is getting very, very bright like a "jewel" and moving in a slightly westerly direction. Going back to 8 degrees above the horizon is another "jewel," not looking anything like a plane, following in on the previous one's tail. Now, the one close to the LIGHT PILLAR is visibly brightening. I am getting a real sense that this thing is coming in to land as a plane would come in to an airport. It is very, very beautiful. This is an extremely amazing experience! He's brilliant golden and very close to the LIGHT PILLAR. They are definitely using is as a navigational marker. He's at around 3 degrees above the horizon and slightly west of the LIGHT PILLAR. Very close to the LIGHT PILLAR now, both vertically and horizontally. He is actually "homing in" on this pillar. He is totally visible to the naked eye. He is SO BRIGHT! The beam, now, is hitting the water. It is like a spotlight. He seems to be searching for the right place to submerge, looking identical above and on the water. He is now LOOKING like the LIGHT PILLAR, like a TWIN almost. Lowering towards the water, and very, very bright. He's simulating the appearance of the LIGHT PILLAR. However, just above the surface of the water. Down, down....dulls down in light intensity...dimmer...virtually nothing at all....two lights merge (object and reflection)...almost down, and now smaller than the LIGHT PILLAR. He has gone into the water at 20.53. We now have another one going into the water. We are getting very confused because it is happening endlessly. They are running at about 2 minute intervals, and all following the same flight path. Just like planes at and airport. 20.56 h. Object at around 8 degrees above horizon. Jewel-like appearance to this one. We notice tonight that most of the objects look totally different from normal. They are coming in looking almost like conventional aircraft. (NOTE: We appear to have a security problem here. It can't be VERY serious, because if it WERE serious, the guy would have gone and done something about it. I think that is is just curiosity. He hasn't moved, and has been in his car for a long time. D.M. has told him that we are watching the planes landing.) Far left of the LIGHT PILLAR, another jewel-like object is bumbling along. The effect is of something that could be rotating gently as it travels along. We are waiting for this object, so, here is my theory (to use up time). The LIGHT PILLAR is a central spot of an area here there are several locations down through which these objects can access the lake. It is not just ONE spot that we are seeing them go down. Our object is getting closer, and, through the high-power binoculars, gives the appearance of a triangular jewel of many colours. Pretty! He is SO BRIGHT! He is hovering and getting VERY BRIGHT. Getting close to the water at around 2 degrees above the horizon. He is pulsating. 20.58 h. Here's the beam, now, coming down and hitting the water. This is a very beautiful experience. There is rotation, because the beam is rotating as well. D.M. is now watching the "next" one while I am watching the other one submerge. This is so beautiful. The beam comes down and there is a huge golden circular patch of light on the water's surface. He now looks like the LIGHT PILLAR. Everything merges, and in he goes. I can see the ripples on the water over him as he is underneath. It is now 21.00. 21.06 h. Another object appears at 8 degrees above horizon, slightly to the east of the LIGHT PILLAR. Another object, already very close to the water, has caught my attention. (Got distracted by the problem behind us.) Much wider in appearance, but very low and pulsating. He's much farther away and submerging. The other object is to his right and is just going over a flashing marker. One is submerging. I'm trying to watch two separate events here. Much paler colour in this instance. 21.07 h. Object approaching from the west. Previous one has passed the flashing marker and seems to be making for the LIGHT PILLAR. Now, he is approaching the LIGHT PILLAR, bumbling along. The object is coming towards the LIGHT PILLAR, but now a huge sort of cloud thing is to the left of the F L A S H I N G LIGHT PILLAR!!! and it is SO LONG!! We have three things happening here! We've got an object coming in, we have a cloud in between, and a FLASHING LIGHT PILLAR which appears to be rotating. I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS! The other object is still bumbling along. He is deep orange in colour, and very low in altitude. He is going over to the LIGHT PILLAR. He is not very bright. Now look to the left of him, if you can, and something else is there. Very deep orange, about 2 degrees above the horizon. Pulsating. This one is now submerging...reflecting on the water..... 21.11 h. Panning back to the other object....doing the same thing...the beam is shining down and he has submerged. My fingers are numb with the cold!! Holding binoculars and taping!!! Do I HAVE fingers?? Towards the east. Bright object appeared and immediately disappeared. 21.12 h. Another object, much farther away, has appeared. Very big and bright object. There are many events in progress. Submersion in progress. (I am so glad that those people have gone from behind us!) (My fingers holding the tape recorder are SO COLD, but we can't even take a moment's rest tonight.) What a session! The beam is coming down (they say, casually!). Submerged at 21.15. 21.19 h. Double object....two lights coming in close together, side-by-side. Immediately disappeared. Different! They looked like orange headlights. 21.23 h. Object coming in to the left of the flashing marker at about 4 degrees above the horizon, and brightening up. Seems like it has headlights, but orange in colour. 5 or 6 lights across in a line. (I can a hear a small plane above us.) The object has turned and I see strobes, so it could have been a conventional craft. It has turned on its side and gives the impression of a low-flying aircraft doing some interesting aerobatics! Object travelling in easterly direction, flashing, with beam shining from the bottom. Low to the horizon. All of a sudden, he stops and changes direction to the west, REALLY fast. 21.28 h. (Here is J struggling away): Object at 5 degrees above the horizon. To my view there are 3 lights, but there could be more. They are in a line. This thing is moving FAST and at a slight angle, not horizontally. Slightly descending. Multiple lights, and they seem to be "sequencing." I am wondering whether it is sequencing AROUND a structure, or sequencing ACROSS the front end of a structure. I am not sure. There are virtually NO conventional aircraft around right now. No boats. Very quiet. This object is not very bright, but I now see the beam, and he is getting very much closer. I am not seeing separate lights now, but a large pulsating mass. I am now picking up on the very bright beam, but the object is at the same light intensity as before. He is reflecting perfectly on the water. I am not getting a sense of many, many lights. Definite sense of pulsation. This guy came in at an incredible rate of speed. Very little fluctuation in luminosity. Now coming down to water's surface, producing the double image. Almost like the LIGHT PILLAR, and then he goes straight into the water at 21.30 (Goodness, this is exhausting!) So, from first seeing the object up to final submersion, is approximately 2 minutes on average. They are coming in just like planes on some kind of schedule. There is another bright jewel-like object approaching from the right (west). What I am looking at through the high-power binoculars is almost like a star. It gives that appearance because of the scintillation. There is also a plane, and that is TOTALLY different! Very bright, white and linear in its movement. Now, our jewel-like object is pulsating and bumbling along....he has come in at around 25 degrees above the horizon. This is VERY unusual. It is 21.32 h. It appears to comprise multiple colours, but that could be an atmospheric effect. D. is getting tired. So, we will "do" two more, and then go home! (No, I'm not, she says!) The object is still bumbling along in our direction. We will assume "conventional" but I don't think so. There are NO flashing wing lights at all. Another object has appeared lower on the horizon, and this is really confusing my life. Now, there is another one. I'll try and watch these two. OH MY GOODNESS, THIS IS HUGE!!! Multiple lights....FIVE lights....no...FOUR....in a row. Pulsating. It is banking and turning. It comes around and this is SO COOL!! Now I have to go back to my jewelly fellow...this is ridiculous trying to keep them all in view at once. "Where have you all gone?" I am going back to the "jewel." This still does not give me the impression of an ordinary plane. D. has noted that our "flying jewel" is getting really, really close to us. (D says that she is feeling "sick to her stomach") J: "If it bothers you, go the the "safe spot" okay? Come on, if you want to go to the cars. D is having a problem here, so maybe a good idea for us to retreat. Stay by the cars? We've agreed to stick with this one. This could be the breakthrough......Can I look through here (binoculars) because I am going to have a heart attack quite probably, in a minute!!!!" D: "He's different...much more orange." (Referring to distant object on horizon.) Conventional planes do NOT have this look. Yes, we are getting a clear but gentle reflection on the water now. I hope that this tape is still working, because I think that we are at sort-or-critical here. I think that we may have a very close approach coming up now, IF THIS IS AN UNKNOWN. The colours are scintillating, and it is NOTHING like an aircraft. I have to switch off so as not to waste tape. Another object has appeared on the horizon, but at a much greater distance. D is going to attempt to photograph our "jewelly triangle." (Comment to D: It is adrenaline...you can't help this....you can't help the feeling." D: "No, no, it just came over me. Don't worry about it.") J: "If you really want to go to the car, then you can." (The cars are 20 feet behind us.) We have to be VERY quiet, okay? This object is very, very close. We have a beautiful reflection on the water. This object is now close and at an elevation of approximately 50 degrees. I am looking through the high-power binoculars and he is really large. It is coming in incredibly close. Multiple lights, and it seems to be gently rotating. Brilliant colours. This is an absolute BLINDER!!! D...if you don't look through the binoculars, you'll miss it. I'm having heart failure. This is just totally amazing! Okay....this "craft" or structure, or whatever it is, is circling us. This must have lasted about 3 or so minutes. A soft, silvery reflection was cast upon the water, and the word I have to use is "SUSPENDED." It was suspended over the water, just sitting there.) It is gradually circling us...but maintaining the same distance from us, and VERY slowly moving in an easterly direction. It is staying at the same luminosity and casting that gentle reflection on the water. There has been total silence now for about 5 minutes. No planes, boats, dogs, geese, people....TOTAL SILENCE. That object stopped for a very long time...It then moved a bit, and sat still again. There is NO WAY that a plane could physically do that. However, we have to check this out because if is felt by one team member that it is a "conventional." I hear no sound. This is not a normal event. Also, if its headlights are shining that way (west)...D....D....Planes have headlights at the FRONT, not at the SIDE!!!! I am not getting any sound on this one at all. We're keeping an open mind here, though. It COULD be "conventional." No problem. It could be a helicopter. You can HEAR something? It could be a "conventional" doing a search. That's the thing that I am thinking. It is certainly circling, and is showing a very odd configuration now. What I find strange is that the headlights are on the side (west). That's my problem with this one. Okay, the headlights are on the side. There's NO WAY!!! Okay, we had a very long session there and this thing hovered for a very long time. We are now comparing it with all the "conventional" aircraft which have suddenly appeared. It is very busy around here all of a sudden. These aircraft move quite fast, and have two very clear and bright headlights on the FRONT of them. These are also showing xenon strobes on the wingtips. D: "We've lost contact with this other guy, but look at this conventional one!!" J: "I know, and D.....D.....if it was as close as that, then we would have heard it. We heard a much higher altitude jet just now, way over there." D: "I admit that it WAS much lower and heading in the direction of the Moon." (Moon is behind us and slightly North at about 50 degrees elevation.) J: "Also, we must note here that it came towards us and then maintained the same distance in a circle.....a semicircle....around us." D: "I don't feel sick to my stomach any more. I did when I saw it and while it was with us. Then it went out of our view, and I don't feel sick to my stomach any more." J: "Do you feel that is is something bad?" D: "I just think it is unknown." J: "Now I want you all to look at the planes that are normal ones." Through the high-power binoculars I could see that the object, on continuing in a North Easterly direction, assumes the appearance of a V-Shape. It had headlights on...okay...it headlights were ludicrous because they were shining BACK from it. Correct? Now, THESE are the "conventionals" and they don't look even slightly like it. There is no comparison. There is something else that just passed over us that doesn't look like a normal plane. We have another event here. 21.50 h. Look at this thing up here! Excuse me.......LOOK AT THE BACK OF THAT PLANE!! DEPARTURE: 22.00 hrs. JJ Saturday, April 12th, 1997. 11.30 hrs. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT THURSDAY, APRIL 10TH, 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J., D.M. PLUS ATTENDANT VIDEOGRAPHER using HI-8, tripod mounting. No telescopic lens, though. Check video for more details on events. (Video did not show too much.) WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Cool temperatures at around 0 degrees C. Slight breeze off the water. Water rippling, but no waves. Visibility good at around 25 miles. SET UP AT RESEARCH SITE: 20.15 hrs. D.S.T. 20.42 h. We are seeing our third orange object far away on the horizon, and somewhat above, between 5 and 10 degrees. Our videographer has gone off up the street to check out a movie that is being made. Therefore, we haven't got started on any filming yet. 20.47 h. Our fourth object has been just sitting still for around 6 minutes, and is at approximately 5 degrees above the horizon. These are all over the land tonight....Not over the water. (NOTE: THE LIGHT PILLAR IS NOT VISIBLE TONIGHT. It WAS visible last night.) 20.49 h. Bright orange object appearing, and I would really like to get filming!!! This object seems to have changed in appearance. It now seems more like a "jewel." Very clear with the naked eye. He's just hanging around.....just cruising. The orange chap that is now a jewel is still around, and we are trying to use the video, having got very frustrated with the camera for the last 12 minutes. However, I don't think that we will be able to pick this up. We have to get him closer. He is very deep in colour now. Reddish-orange. He's going down very low. J: "Just keep on filming. Keep at it as you have nothing to lose." I am NOT getting that as a plane. I am getting that definitely....is the viewfinder showing anything? 21.13 h. Something has just come in with 3 lights on the front. Appeared and disappeared immediately. There is something over there. I don't know what we are seeing here. It is to the left of those white flashing masts. It keeps getting terribly bright. I mean, some plane to be circling so long. There's no reason to be circling. There are no planes landing, so why would it be circling? Time is 21.15 h. Brilliantly bright now and shining a light down on the water. Same characterisics as the "jewel" of Wednesday, April 9th. It's been going for ages, this one. Can D see this? (D is way along the shore eastwards of us, and on the cellular phone.) Can he tell if this is a plane? IS IT A PLANE? This object is casting a very strong reflection on the water. Probably a plane. 21.17 h. There are now two of these objects, and they are right where an airfield is, so I have no idea. He has just turned...D has seen two of our "normal" objects from his location. These two objects over the airfield area are.....Good grief....what is going on here? They are circling around each other! They are just going round and round, aren't they? I mean, they could be planes. I'm not going to discount that. Maybe our chaps have changed location tonight for all our friends in the city. 21.22 h. We have a "jewel" very, very close. Much closer than last night. I don't think that it's a plane. It is very, very bright and he is doing just what he did last night. Very much lower than last night, though. Street lamp behind us is out, which really helps our vision. He is getting really close, doing the same thing, and just watching us, I think!! There are no planes, boats, dogs, geese, joggers, cars...anything. Just the ripples on the lake. The object is not moving, so he is very easy to film. Everything is so peaceful. Just this beautiful light suspended, yet again, over the water. He is now moving ever so slightly east. J, is this filming? At this point, J moves his video camera to centre the light in the viewfinder again. Thus, on that first part of the video, with the camera on the tripod, there is absolutely no movement. All one can see is a gentle scintillation as the lights sits there, very still. So, on the video, we see it sitting absolutely still for a very lont time (will check video for duration.) Then we can see it move very slowly out of the camera's view, until J moves the camera again. Object has started to move a little more quickly, very similar to last night (April 9th). He is describing a semi-circle about us again. Hopefully, this is on video. I am now going to the high-power binoculars, to give a better description. It's a plane....... NO FLASHERS!! It's running orange lights! No planes run orange lights. It's running orange lights...no way....no navigational lights on it at all. I want to keep with this one, okay? There is something flashing on top. It's flying high now....it's gone through the trees...same trajectory as last night. I can't see it now. There is a HUGE white light shining back down towards us from the back of the object. Finally flew off as did the object last night! NOTE: During the suspension period, when the object was hovering close to above us, D's cellular phone started to crackle and squeal. After the object had passed, the phone returned to normal. Early retreat, as the camera had to be returned to the local college. JJ April 12th, 1997. 12.30 hrs. D.S.T. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP. NIGHT OFF DUTY. APRIL 16TH.1997. I attended my daughter's school show at 20.00 hrs. which finished at 21.30 hrs. I thought that it might be a nice idea, for a change, to check out the end of the street, down from the school. I just went for 15 minutes, ready to go back and pick up my daughter. As soon as I got to the shore, a large, brilliant orange object appeared and seemed to fade immediately. This was followed very closely by a second object, similar in appearance and duration. I then returned to the school to pick up my daughter. I returned home to find email from D, containing the following information: Start of D's report:- "D and I came home around 21.15 after a birthday dinner. I took a look at the sky when I drove in, and asked D if he wanted to go down to the lake to see if we could see any of our "boys." We went out and finished setting up at 21.30. 21.38 h. One bright orange object appeared in the dark area. - the same area as Tuesday night. This could be seen with the naked eye, and disappeared immediately. Through the high-power binoculars I could see it faintly, and it looked as if it were heading east. Elevation of 5 degrees above horizon. D had also seen one object very briefly when we were first setting up, but it happened whilst I was turned away, so I didn't get an exact time. 21.46 h. Another orange object appeared from about the same place as the previous one. D noticed that it appeared to be taking off as opposed to coming in. D said that it shot straight up from the horizon and made a trail after it "like a Roman Candle." I did not see this because I was trying to get it into view in the binoculars. I just saw the object when it first appeared. 21.51 h. Orange object appeared. It came in like all the rest, except that its point of entry was higher than the others. I also found that when I had it in the binoculars, I could see it a lot longer than the others. This one also headed east before I lost sight of it. A strange thing happened after watching the orange objects. At about 21.58, whilst looking for more orange objects in the dark area, I saw a bright orange ball very close to the horizon (1-2 degrees at most.) It lit up very briefly like the others, so I decided to look at it through the binoculars. When I looked through the binoculars, it had dimmed slightly, but was still bright and looked as if it were getting closer to the horizon. It was fairly stationary, so I thought that after 30-45 seconds that it might be a lighthouse or beacon of some sort. Then, when it dimmed down to almost nothing, I noticed that it looked like it was part of a set of runway lights (being the very last one to the right.) While THIS light was vey bright, the other lights were very dim and you could hardly see them. It was very strange, and I really can't explain it any better than that. All I know is that, in a 45 minute time frame, we saw 4 of our "boys" and the strange light!! NOT BAD FOR A NIGHT OFF!!!" (End of D's report.) JJ April 18th, 1997. 09.30 hrs. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT THURSDAY, APRIL 17TH. 1997. MEMBERS PRESENT: J.J. and D.M. WEATHER CONDITIONS: Good. Cool temperatures at around +3 degrees C. Slight breeze off the water. Water rippling, but no waves. Visibility good around 30 miles. No haze over the water. SET UP AT RESEARCH SITE: 20.15 HRS. D.S.T. Still light. No LIGHT PILLAR. 21.13 h. Orange object appears at about 3 degrees above horizon, moving fast in westerly direction. Appeared in dark area. 21.15 h. Huge bright orange object appears. Then appears to change to a flashing object. This object was very wide and was heading east. It became a fuzzy, hazy, red flashing object, travelling east at about 5 degrees above the horizon, and not really visible without the high-power binoculars. It could be a landing plane, but there are no airports and airfields around there. 21.40 h. Huge, brilliant orange object appears. This is about 3 degrees at most above horizon It has multiple lights in a straight line on the front. It changes to a flashing object, fuzzy, red and hazy. This is not like red strobes or lights on a plane. This is the whole object flashing. This occurred in the dark area again. Tonight's objects are BIG and WIDE with several lights across. 21.45 h. Brilliant orange object appears. This is visible to the naked eye. Through the high-power binoculars we can clearly see 5 lights across in a straight line. They are big enough that D can count them. We decide to pack up at 22.00 hrs. During this time, we discuss the evening's events. It was NO ACTION for a very long time tonight. It felt very quiet, and then the events happened quickly after one another. This is the impression we are getting: These craft, whatever they are, are coming in to land, not taking off. They suddenly appear to us as brilliant orange lights, and seem to come from nowhere. They appear to be facing us, head-on, at that moment. However, on closer examination through the high-power binoculars, they are not just a light source. These are some kind of craft displaying a line of lights on the leading edge. These are some kind of ENORMOUS CRAFT too!! The craft "appears" with its huge, separate lights, and then banks to turn in a easterly direction. A plane would be having major problems at this stage, because it would be so close to the ground that the speed would be way down, and it would stall. Actually, its wingtip would probably touch the ground and it would crash!!!! Planes do their final landing approach in a STRAIGHT LINE, do they not? Then, the craft seems to become a flashing, deep pinkish-red, and continues on its way, still very close to the horizon. This is not giving the impression of red lights or strobes, but of a whole object gently flashing/pulsing. JJ Friday, April 18th, 1997. 10.30 hrs. CSETI SOUTHERN ONTARIO WORKING GROUP REPORT FRIDAY, APRIL 18TH, 1997. (DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME) TEAM ONE: J.J. and P.C. TEAM TWO: D.M. and D.M. WEATHER CONDITIONS. TEAM ONE: (ON THE SOUTHERN LAKE SHORE) - very cold, and, with the windchill, it felt around -15 degrees C. The wind was from the North East at about 60 k.p.h., and we had a mile or more of ice in front of us before the open water. Water was really choppy, as we could see the tankers moving across our sight line. EXCELLENT VISIBILITY AND UNLIMITED CEILING. The video camera was tripod-mounted, and even with the camera locked in place, and my holding the whole structure with both hands, there was still considerable vibration in the images. There is no narrative on the videotape, as the wind cut out all other sounds, even with the wind buffer switched on. However, the timer was on, and the length of time during which the objects were stationary can be seen. WEATHER CONDITIONS: TEAM TWO: (ON THE NORTHERN LAKE SHORE) - pleasant and still night with a temperature of around +3 degrees C. The water was very calm, no ripples even. Visibility good with a slight film of haze. SUMMARY OF TEAM ONE'S SESSION: The frigid and windy conditions certainly impaired our documentation. We set up at our southerly site at 21.15 hrs., having had some late departure problems, and a drive of more than one and a half hours. Also, finding this tiny park in the dark, never having been there before, was not that simple. That's the trouble with doing a research session at the end of a long working day!! The park overlooked the lake, affording a clear view from west to east. We had a picnic table on which to place all equipment, and for P to steady his binoculars against the violent wind! >From where we were located, the orange orbs, which actually scintillate with many colours when you see them more closely, only appeared to be about 6 miles distant. This figure was calculated from the height above water-level at which we were located. The orange orbs appeared immediately as we were setting up the equipment, and I have quite a few of these objects on videotape. It would be truly wonderful to have access to some powerful-lensed equipment. Activity continued until around 22.30 hrs. when we departed for our drive home. Planes were visible all during our session, and these appear quite different, on reviewing the videotape. Early on in the session, there were 2 occasions when I felt a distinct adrenaline rush as these objects approached very close. They were at about 20 degrees elevation, and the faint reflective glow could be seen just on the iced area of the lake in front of us. The objects were deep orange-gold, but had more colours mixed in, when seen through the regular binoculars. NOTE: THIS IS THE CLOSEST THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN TO THE ORANGE ORBS, AND I FEEL THAT WE CAN GET NO CLOSER, WHILST ON LAND. They appeared at around 20 degrees elevation, from "nowhere," and just sat there. Now, they could also be seen from TEAM TWO's position, which means that they were manifesting right over the water on this occasion. However, they were much closer to TEAM ONE than to TEAM TWO. We are seeing them as very big and bright objects with the naked eye. TEAM TWO was having to use the very high-powered binoculars. TEAM TWO FULL REPORT: Tonight we have a SMALL LIGHT PILLAR (S.L.P.) 21.03 h. First jewel-like object appeared at 5 degrees above the horizon, and was in view for 6 minutes. It appeared in the area of St. Catherine's, and just bumbled around over the water, moving very slowly. It went lower and appeared to be right over the water. It seems much closer to me than any other light on the horizon. It is bright orange in colour and appears to be one light. We have not seen anything in that location before. It moved in an easterly direction away from the S.L.P., became lower in altitude and finally submerged. It had become much brighter, intermittently. It displayed no downwards shining beam of light, but hovered over the water for about 1 minute. It then submerged and moved along, UNDER the water, at quite a quick pace, in an easterly direction. We then lost sight of it. 21.27 h. D sees an orange object with the naked eye at about 10 degrees above the horizon, and it seems to be approaching the S.L.P. quite fast. It becomes very bright. As it turns, we can see 5 LIGHTS ACROSS the object. THIS IS BIG! It travels very quickly, steadily losing altitude, and dims down slightly. It goes down ON TO THE WATER, and is running along the surface. It submerges with no beam of light shining down like those of April 9th. Submerged at 21.30 hrs. 21.47 h. Orange object appears at 8 degrees above horizon, and goes steadily lower. It lowers toward the water, and seems to be flashing. It is orange in colour, moving fast and getting VERY close to the water's surface. It flashes IRREGULARLY at just above water level, travelling in an easterly direction. No beam is visible on the water. This event lasted 1 minute until submersion. 21.52 h. Object at horizon level and remaining stationary, very bright orange in colour and large. Just east of the flashing light marker. Disappeared. 21.57 h. Object appears at 15 degrees above horizon and moving fast. Now above the S.L.P. Moves slightly right of the S.L.P. Heading west now at about 20 degrees above horizon - probably a plane. 21.59 h. Object moving in same direction as above. No strobes, and moving west. It appears to be pulsing, but moving very fast. This is at around 20 degrees above horizon. However, as it is pulsing and quite orange, it is probably one of the orbs. 22.01 h. Very large object appears at about 5 degrees above horizon. It turns and is moving east. It is east of the S.L.P. The object appears as large as the "FIVE LIGHTS ACROSS" event, but there are no separate lights discernible. Still at 5 degrees above horizon and moving east. Now stopped, slightly east of S.L.P. and still at 5 degrees elevation. Now appears to be moving west, same elevation, and looks like it is moving towards the flashing pillar. No change in appearance, it passes the flashing marker, same elevation and orange in colour. Moving west and seems to be getting lower. Passes flashing red beacon, which is west of the flashing white marker, around 4 degrees elevation. Luminosity remains constant. Moving more slowly than previous objects. Appears to be heading toward the S.L.P. at same elevation and luminosity. It seems to be meandering, but quite a way from the S.L.P. It is now about 3 degrees above horizon and gradually lowering toward the water, with no sign of any downwards beam. Through the high-power binoculars, I have both the S.L.P. ans the orange object in view. The object continues moving west, same elevation, in the direction of the S.L.P. Now right on the horizon. It becomes VERY BRIGHT! The object is right beside the S.L.P., and is now moving east, away from the pillar. It returns to its original luminosity, and appears to be getting higher. It is still bright, but not as much as when it was next to the S.L.P. It looks like it could be taking off, and becomes MUCH BRIGHTER. Now slightly lower in light intensity, and about 2 degrees elevation, but moving faster. I can now just see the top of the object, so it could have gone into the water, moving westerly. Time of disappearance - 22.09 hrs. 22.10 h. Object appears moving in easterly direction - no flashers, so I don't think that it is a plane. This just appeared from "nowhere" at around 20 degrees elevation. This is the third one in that location, following the same pattern of movement. They could be planes, are slow, but I don't see any xenon strobes. They are orange in colour, and maybe going out into space. Last object gets fainter as it climbs. Time is now 22.11 hrs. 22.15 h. Jewel-like object appears at about 8 degrees above the horizon, heading in the direction of the S.L.P. Now about 5 degrees above horizon, brightening up and still heading towards the S.L.P. It is pulsating, and, on turning, has become much brighter. Not as large as the object with 5 lights. It gradually loses altitude and moves west. It is now flying right up to the S.L.P. It is right above the S.L.P., and has become IMMENSELY BRIGHT! It stays bright, and slightly to the right of the S.L.P. The S.L.P. has become MUCH BRIGHTER. The object is now circling, and moving east. THIS IS INCREDIBLE - IT IS COMMUNICATING WITH THE SMALL LIGHT PILLAR. (Speculation). Whether this pillar is a beacon or ONE OF THEM, it really LIT UP. The object is now moving along the horizon, in an easterly direction. It seems like it was getting a communication from the S.L.P. to go to a submersion point. The object is still heading east almost on the horizon. I wonder if the flashing white marker and the flashing red beacon have something to do with all this, because these objects seem to submerge around that area. The object has become much less bright, or may be getting farther away from me. It submerges, without emitting any downward beam of light. Time is 22.18 hrs. 22.19 h. Towards the west, a very bright object appears, right on the water. This is way out west. The object seems to be on the water, much closer in the Hamilton direction. This is one of the "runway lights" that I had seen before. I guess that it isn't a runway light !! It looks like it is right ON the water, blending in with the lights behind. 22.27 h. Large orange orb appears about half a degree above horizon, just east of the S.L.P. It gradually increases in altitude, and becomes less bright. Moving east, away from the S.L.P. at about 1 degree elevation. It appears to be flashing red, and getting lower. They always seem to disappear at the red flashing beacon, just to the right of the flashing white marker. Duration was 2 minutes. 22.32 h. Orange object appears about 8 degrees above horizon, moving east. Now east of the S.L.P. I believe that it is above water, not land. Now at 5 degrees elevation, and getting lower. Now right on the horizon, not very big, but you CAN see it. It appears to be approaching the red beacon. It passes the red beacon and makes towards the flashing white marker. Disappears at 22.34 hrs. 22.45 h. UNKNOWN. Object appears to twinkle like the "jewels" but is slightly higher than most orange orbs, and I can't tell if this is a plane. It does not appear to have flashing strobes. 22.54 h. Another orange orb has appeared out of the "dark area" at about 10 degrees above the horizon, heading west. Luminosity has decreased but moving quite fast. Altitude has increased to about 15 degrees, but no flashers, so I don't believe that it is a plane. No planes have come out of the "dark area" tonight. Now at 20 degrees, and still no strobes visible. Orange in colour and passing the flashing white marker and red flashing beacon. Stil gaining altitude and moving quite fast in a westerly direction. This is NOT a plane - just a constant ORANGE BALL, gradually going higher. 23.00 h. OFFICIAL PACKING-UP TIME! Two big lights, heading west at about 10 degrees above horizon, and this is NOT a plane. As it turned towards us and headed west, it became VERY BRIGHT. Maintaining altitude at 10 degrees above horizon, I saw two lights, but there could have been more. This thing is VERY BIG. Moving west and originating from the "dark area." I don't see any xenon flashers as it climbs higher. This object was very bright, but did not emit light of any kind. It almost glowed. I can see it pulsating and NO xenon strobes. This one is much larger than the previous one. It is now about 30 degrees above the horizon. This is a large orange ball, climbing steadily. It is now flashing red, not strobes, but the WHOLE THING is flashing. It is gaining more altitude, and I can barely see it now. It is flashing intermittently red. It is now gone at 23.02 hrs. END OF REPORT BY TEAM TWO (D and D) JJ Sunday, April 20th, 1997. 21.30 hrs.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 11:54:33 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:36:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: TotlResrch@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:31:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >You weren't there, I WAS! Maybe the two times I have talked with >Hesemann he >was having an off day, then? In fact, Katarina Blei also commented on >this >(you don't know her)....his difficulty pronouncing "vs" and "ws" >correctly. >But Bob, whether or not Hesemann has a lisp, it's ultimately irrelevant, >isn't it?? The real issue here is Hesemann's penchant for endorsing >spurious >cases. Sound familiar, Bob? Michael's lisp, or lack thereof, is totally irrelevant. No reason for you to bring it up in the first place, then, was there? If you don't like the message, attack the message. There is far too much of this attacking the messenger. >Finally' it's not necessarily "langsamer" either. There are over 430 >dialects >of German officially recognized in Germany alone. You guess which one I >was >educated in. Shouldn't you be spending your time more valuably getting >back >to "authenticating" the alien autopsy film? : -) Even though I have translated four books from German to English, I make no claim to be fluent in German, which is a VERY difficult language. The dialects I have learned are Cologne/Dusseldorf/Bonn regional and Bavarian. However, your original sounds grammatically incorrect to me. It is equivalent of saying in English, "please speak slow", whereas my variant translates as "Please speak slowly". Maybe you learned Ebonic German. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Hopes fading in search for ET From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:00:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:09:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Hopes fading in search for ET >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:10:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Hopes fading in search for ET >SOURCE: Globe and Mail - p.D8 >DATE: April 19, 1997 >COLUMN: Mind & Matter >BY: Michael Smith >HEADLINE: Hopes fading in search for ET ....snip.... >But astronomer Geoff Marcy, one of the world's premier >planet-hunters, isn't convinced. Evidence is mounting, he says, >that planetary systems like ours, with a sun orbited by >terrestrial planets--small, rocky worlds like Earth and Mars--and >larger gas giants farther away from the star, are relatively >uncommon. >Dr. Marcy shook his head. "All of us want to see the SETI [search >for extraterrestrial intelligence] succeed," he told me. "But all >the indications are that it isn't going to." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Now this man is obviously pure genius. Of the billions and billions of stars out there, hardly any of them probably have planets around them that intelligent life could possibly develop on. Ha! Ha! Ha! Give me a break. The suckers following that line probably also believed: "Man will never fly because......" "The sound barrier can never be broken because....." etc. and don't forget Marcy is right .. this is the ONLY way life can develop ... and ... anyone with a different view is obviously wrong because they haven't found any new planets lately. Totally unimpressed, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen P.S. One consolation. If he's right, we can't find this level of intelligent life anywhere else. What a relief. "Mary Lou honey, put down thet there telescope thang and pass the aspirin and the Pepto. .... Thanks hon. I think this here genius fella just gave me a headache; and I'm getting nauseous too." P.P.S. Hi Drew.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 18:28:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:14:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:11:40 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> posted: >From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >You people need to understand that I am NOT a UFO skeptic. >I am simply a UFO researcher who is trying to make sense >of this phenomenon. >That's it. It's that simple. I am amazed at how hard this >concept has been for many in the UFO field to comprehend. >Why? Because although many of you profess to be just >"researchers," the truth is many of you have some sort of >agenda or preconceived idea(s) as to what UFOs are. For those who are in the possession of Korff's 1995 book, take a look at fig. 65, on p. 198, here Korff uses the transparancy of the paper to introduce a thin horizontal line about 2.5 mm above the UFO in the black/white representation of one of Meier's Bachtelhornli-Unterbachtel photographs. This "suspension line" actually is the upper part of the black framework of fig. 64 *conveniently* placed in the middle of the page 197! This is incontrovertable proof that Korff *fabricates* evidence to support his own theories. Note that Korff is the man who according to himself is an advocate for a "serious, objective, and scientific study of UFO reports" and accuses most other UFO researchers for having "some sort of agenda or preconceived idea to what UFOs are"! Jeroen Jansen, The Netherlands.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 13:29:04 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:16:35 -0400 Subject: Re: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:24:00 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: British media, Black Triangles & D-Notice from MOD Gary wrote; >Thousands of people sighted black triangular or boomerang shaped >craft just a few miles from New York City back in the early 1980s. >So now they are visiting our English cousins. The point was subtlely made, and possibly lost somewhere, but it was that the vast majority of the Black Triangle sightings in the UK are not described as 'boomerang', but triangular varying in size from 30 to 250+ feet, noisy and/or noiseless, with or without lights and with the capability to hover. Or not. There are more than one, and it could just be the 'in' shape for the moment, much as the Chinese see a lot of 'saturnlike' objects. > The designers haven't been able to provide > chameleon like capabilities yet but they are trying. Yup, to be placed on tanks first. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Fund for UFO Research Web Site From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:46:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:34:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Fund for UFO Research Web Site >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:19:58 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Fund for UFO Research Web Site /^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ Heh...... .....Deja Vu! Our messages that both referred to FUFOR seem to have overlapped each other, Steven! (grin) >The Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) is now online, and >their list of publications should not be overlooked >by those who are interested in this genre. > FUFOR can be found at: > http://www.fufor.org > and email may be sent to: > fufor@us-index.com Excellent! From what I know of FUFOR and its esteemed board, I think its high time that their presence should be felt on the web. Thank you for letting us know about this, bud. >Seasoned UFOlogists and those new to the genre will >find this an invaluable source for information, and it >shouldn't be missed. Now if we can convince Dr. Greer to set aside some of those CSETI funds for FUFOR, we can get the ball to REALLY rolling... Regards from rattlesnake country, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. :: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. ** :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE!! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 MacArthur's Farewell Speech? From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 12:29:36 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:07:44 -0400 Subject: MacArthur's Farewell Speech? Does anyone know where one might obtain/read a copy of Gen. D. MacArthur's departing speech where he allegedly states that the next major war will be an interplanetary one? TIA, Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:37:49 -0400 Subject: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI I personaly would like to thank Steven Greer for his efforts on behalf of all of us. He has invested a lot of money in putting together the briefing of and for members of Congress and their aides. While many of us in the UFO community may have reservations about Steven and CSETI leading the charge on Capitol Hill the fact is that he is doing it. Its easy to sit back and carp when somebody else is doing all the work. Greer has taken the ball and is running with it. He and his research director Shari Adamiak have contacted me by email and assured me that my source was wrong and that there were a number of members of Congress at the meeting. As far as I am concerned, its case closed on that one. Mike Jamieson the other co-founder of ORTK besides myself, talked personaly with Dr. Greer by phone today. I feel rather confident that Steven is on the level and does have the contacts he claims to have. I think at this point the rest of us in the UFO community should work with Dr. Greer and CSETI and support these efforts any way we can. I think support will be much more helpful moving us all forward, than criticism at this point. Some of the criticism is simply foolish and uninformed. It should be obvious that in this sensitive and serious matter that confidentiality is essential. Steven has put himself in a very difficult postion that of mediating between those on the inside the wall of secrecy and those on the outside. He can't divulge his sources without hurting his credibility with the insiders and by not divulging his sources he hurts his credibility with us outsiders. Its a no win situation. As far as giving a list of attendee's you have got to be kidding. You have to appreciate what a difficult position he is in. Lets give him some time and support at least for now to get on with the show. Another researcher in England has expressed his concern that Dr. Greer will be used by the insiders for their own agenda. Of course that would be a given, but we on the outside can counter balance that. At least we have somebody that is talking to both sides in this difficult and sensitive situation. I think it is now apparent to most of those on the inside and outside that this coverup needs to end quickly. I would like to see more cooperation and working together between all parties seeking a end to the UFO coverup at this point. Its time for everybody involved to get past the petty squabbling and lets get a end to this coverup NOW! Sincerely, Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:46:28 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:30:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: TotlResrch@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:47:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >> However, while I did work at Claris, I would get calls on occasion >>by officials at Lawrence Livermore Labs to consult with them on >>various issues. I did do some consulting, and did maintain my ties >>through the years up until the end of the Persian Gulf War. >>Incidentally, having worked for LLNL and specifically the same group >>that Bob Lazaar claims to have worked for, this is how I KNOW he is >>not telling the truth about Area 51, etc. >Briefly, the issue isn't Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory or >Los Alamos National Laboratory. THE ISSUE in the Lazar claims regards >the specific agency Bob claims he worked for. I worked for the SAME >agency (and unlike Bob, I still have my badge and don't need to >"recreate" it [conveniently] from memory.) I have many friends at >this agency and worked there at that time and was known as "THE UFO >person," (there was even a big article in the press about them hiring >a UFO buff like me, it was front page stuff in a big color article) so >this is why I know Lazar is not telling the truth. Excuse me, Kal, the issue IS relevant. 1) It was Lazar's claim that he had worked for LANL as a scientist that made him look incredible, because UFO researchers could not substantiate this. 2) LANL is something completely different than LLNL. Since Lawrence Livermore National Labs (LLNL) is located in California, it would not surprise me if your former employer Claris cooperated with the lab now and then. However, LANL (Los Alamos Nat Labs) is located a thousand miles away in the desert of New Mexico. 3) If there was 'another agency' involved that Lazar claims to have worked for, then where does Lazar say this? I have read loads of chapters and web sites about Lazar. Not only is Lazar giving many details, but friends of Lazar have provided more details of his life and UFO researchers like Tom Mahood have plotted his entire lifeline to gain insight into his credibility. So what agency are you talking about? If the press has already run a big article about this agency hiring you, what stops you from simply providing this list with the name? And how come that you are the only person who knows about Lazar making this claim about an agency? >If I had not been there at that time, I wouldn't know >any of this. So where have you been? And don't say Claris, because we already know this. And btw, I don't see what working for a computer company has to do with your credibility in the UFO field. >Thanks, and I apologise for the typo regarding Mr. Lazar. >I admit I was thinking of his nickname at the time. What nickname? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Posting Rules From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:30:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:30:02 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules To make List Life as painless as possible for you and the List moderator, please read the following Posting Rules carefully. _______________________________________________________________ Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena, operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://auraland.com/mufon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Department of Defence Server Listing From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Apr 97 13:29:06 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:17:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Department of Defence Server Listing >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:41:35 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Department of Defence Server Listing Gary wrote; >With the circulation of this kind of listing and the implication >that it is justifiable to hack military or intelligence computer >systems...<snip> 1) Not many have the ability 2) Those that say they do frequently don't 3) That list is about as useful as a chocolate teapot 4) Lighten up. They're watching you anyway, so why get bent out of shape? (you get those lists by checking the links from the public servers) James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Lazar] From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:17:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Lazar] This posting will hopefully clear up some issues regarding my statement that Bob Lazar and I both worked for the same employer. The agency that I am referring to is KMI, Inc. That's the company that Bob Lazar claims he was contracted to, and that's who I was contracted to also. And by the way, I shared this info with Stanton Friedman about a year ago. Stan and I at that time, were considering doing some sort of expose on Lazar (Stan adding the background details of Lazar's "education,") and me adding the KMI stuff and other material. I sincerely hope that Stanton will still want to do such a paper with me, but with my new Roswell book coming out that takes him to task for his failure to adequately investigate Major Marcel's false claims about his background (and other issues) I don't know how motivated Friedman will be to collaborate on such a paper. Also, at this point I don't know if such a paper would be productive. Lazar's claims aren't exactly "fresh news," and even Billy Meier is more active than Lazar is today. Hope this clarifies my Lazar comment.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 00:06:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:17:36 -0400 Subject: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings AUFORA News Update Tuesday, April 22nd, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ _________________________ GOVERNMENT HEARINGS URGED Ft.Worth Star Telegram http://www.startext.net/index.htm WASHINGTON - No one cited Comet Hale-Bopp or Heaven's Gate when a UFO group, backed by an astronaut who has walked on the moon, called last week for hearings on what they say is a government cover-up of earthly visits by extraterrestrial life forms. The only references to Independence Day or the X Files were uttered by Dr. Steven M. Greer, director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, who assailed the sci-fi fare as part of the "90 percent of what people are exposed to on this subject: rubbish, complete and utter nonsense." Greer and the former astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, told reporters and congressional officials in separate closed-door briefings that their assesment of extraterrestrial activities, although widely disputed, requires urgent federal attention for the good of humankind. Greer, Mitchell and a panel of "witnesses" asserted that several extraterrestrial civilizations - working together from bases within the solar system and possibly from temporary outposts under water on Earth - regulary visit the planet and are prepared for widespread contact with humans. ****************** AUFORA Commentary: When reading this I was immediately impressed that Steven Greer quickly moved to point out the difference between his request and that of a modern sci-fi taught UFO buff. However, his ideas do not seem to be terribly logical. Claiming that not just one, but multiple extraterrestrial civilizations are hiding out beneath Earth's oceans is quite extreme. And then, he naturally must claim the government is covering it up (as if the government doesn't take enough criticism!) From a purely diplomatic standpoint, it doesn't make much sense to accuse the government of conspiracy, and then ask for their help. Perhaps if he had asked the government to reopen investigation into UFOs ala Blue Book he would have accomplished more, and retained some degree of respect. __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Shell] From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:17:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Shell] >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [snip] >Michael's lisp, or lack thereof, is totally irrelevant. No reason >for you to bring it up in the first place, then, was there? If you >don't like the message, attack the message. There is far too much >of this attacking the messenger. [snip] Dear Bob, Just like your "correcting" my German is irrelevant, isn't it? And by the way, in Berlin it is said the way I did, depending on which form of "sie" is being used. You forgot to account for that factor, Bob. I do not intend to waste my time corresponding with you any further. I've had my fill of your nonsense following your EMail pontifications ever sense you started muddying the waters on alien autopsy. (That pond was already cloudy enough without your help, by the way, Bob!) So, if you don't get any more responses from me, PLEASE take it personally!! Until you have something credible to say, I'd rather spend my time doing productive things. You are right, however, about their being too much of "shoot the messenger." However, since I neither care for Michael Hesemann and yourself, due to your bizaare track record/statements on alien autopsy and Hesemann's on alien autopsy, Roswell and the Meier case, I don't care about the "messenger" issue when it comes to you two individuals. Until if and when you've both got something credible to come to the UFO table with, I intend on not having anything to do with either of you, life's too short to wate it this way.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:30:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen Oh boy, here's a "good" one: >From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >For those who are in the possession of Korff's 1995 book, >take a look at fig. 65, on p. 198, here Korff uses the >transparancy of the paper to introduce a thin horizontal >line about 2.5 mm above the UFO in the black/white >representation of one of Meier's Bachtelhornli-Unterbachtel >photographs. This "suspension line" actually is the upper >part of the black framework of fig. 64 *conveniently* >placed in the middle of the page 197! >This is incontrovertable proof that Korff *fabricates* >evidence to support his own theories. Note that Korff is >the man who according to himself is an advocate for a >"serious, objective, and scientific study of UFO reports" >and accuses most other UFO researchers for having "some >sort of agenda or preconceived idea to what UFOs are"! I must say, Mr. Jansen, of the hundreds of claims made ragarding the Meier case, yours is very peculiar, and EASILY REFUTABLE! 1) I did not do the final paste up and layout of my Meier book, my publisher did. Therefore, if there's a "line" that appears as a bleedthrough, then it is simply a coincidence. 2) The computer enhancement I did was of the photo, NOT of the printed page, so there's no way your mistaken impression that it's a bleedthrough line is possible. By the way, I scanned and analyzed hundreds of Meier's pictures, and only chose the "core" set to show them in my book. Since my book has over 100 photos in it, you can see how it would have been even larger if I had included EVERY photo I analyzed. 3) I can and will, if you like, send you copies of the actual enhanced image should you still doubt what I am saying. In the meantime, if you prefer me to do this, you might want to order the same photo from Meier's people -- although don't tell them WHY you are doing it. You may get an altered version. 4) Finally, I don't care if you believe that I have an agenda or not. I have stated my position on the subject of UFOs repeatedly over the years in the media (as recently as in my two latest books) and once again I advocate the serious, scientific study of UFO cases and reports. I do not make up my data (this disinguishes me from many UFO researchers) nor do I fabricate things on my computer digitally. And I especially wouldn't do something like what you have accused me of because legally that would be very risky and it is simply unethical. 5) Why don't you address the Meier photos in my book on pages 149-151, 238-239, and 250-251. Are you going to tell me with a sraight face that these are real photos of the planet Venus and dinosaurs that Meier took, and that the Unter-Balm photo was not faked using a model? How do you explain these, Mr. Jansen?? I hope your efforts to do so are more on the mark than your very wrong comment about how I "fake" things...which is NOT true!!! In fact, I CHALLENGE you to prove it. of course, you can't, because it simply is not true!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: MacArthur's Farewell Speech? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:52:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:52:02 -0400 Subject: Re: MacArthur's Farewell Speech? >Date: 22 Apr 97 12:29:36 EDT >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: MacArthur's Departure >Does anyone know where one might obtain/read a copy >of Gen. D. MacArthur's departing speech where he allegedly >states that the next major war will be an interplanetary one? Terry, Here's that speech in its entirety from: http://www.successfx.com/diskspace/napfn/macarth.htm a militia web-site. ebk _________________________________ General Douglass MacArthur's Farewell Address to the Cadets of West Point Military Academy, 2 May 1962 No human being could fail to be deeply moved by such a tribute as this, coming from a profession I have served so long and a people I have loved so well. It fills me with an emotion I cannot express. But this award is not intended primarily for a personality, but to symbolize a great moral code - the code of conduct and chivalry of those who guard this beloved land of culture and ancient descent. 'Duty', 'honor', country' - those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you want to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying point to build courage when courage seems to fail, to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, to create hope when hope becomes forlorn. Unhappily, I possess neither that eloquence of diction, that poetry of imagination, nor that brilliance of metaphor to tell you all that they mean. The unbelievers will say they are but words, but a slogan, but a flamboyant phrase. Every pedant, every demagogue, every cynic, every hypocrite, every troublemaker, and, I am sorry to say, some others of an entirely different character, will try to downgrade them even to the extent of mockery and ridicule. But these are some of the things they build. They build your basic character. They mold you for your future roles as the custodians of the nation's defense. They make you strong enough to know when you are weak, and brave enough to face yourself when you are afraid. They teach you to be proud and unbending in honest failure, but humble and gentle in success; not to substitute words for action; not to seek the path of comfort, but to face the stress and spur of difficulty and challenge; to learn to stand up in the storm, but to have compassion on those who fall; to master yourself before you seek to master others; to have a heart that is clean, a goal that is high; to learn to laugh, yet never forget how to weep; to reach into the future, yet never neglect the past; to be serious, yet never take yourself too seriously; to be modest so that you will remember the simplicity of true greatness; the open mind of true wisdom, the meekness of true strength. They give you a temperate will, a quality of imagination, a vigor of the emotions, a freshness of the deep springs of life, a temperamental predominance of courage over timidity, an appetite for adventure over love of ease. They create in your heart the sense of wonder, the unfailing hope of what next, and the joy and inspiration of life. They teach you in this way to be an officer and a gentleman. And what sort of soldiers are those you are to lead? Are they reliable? Are they brave? Are they capable of victory? Their story is known to all of you. It is the story of the American man at arms. My estimate of him was formed on the battle-fields many, many years ago, and has never changed. I regarded him then, as I regard him now, as one of the world's noblest figures; not only as one of the finest military characters, but also as one of the most stainless. His name and fame are the birthright of every American citizen. In his youth and strength his love and loyalty, he gave all that mortality can give. He needs no eulogy from me, or from any other man. He has written his own history and written it in red on his enemy's breast. In 20 campaigns, on a hundred battlefields, around a thousand campfires, I have witnessed that enduring fortitude, that patriotic self-abnegation, and that invincible determination which have carved his statue in the hearts of his people. From one end of the world to the other, he has drained deep the chalice of courage. As I listened to those songs in memory's eye I could see those staggering columns of the First World War, bending under soggy packs on many a weary march, from dripping dusk to drizzling dawn, slogging ankle deep through mire of shell-pocked roads; to form grimly for the attack, blue-lipped, covered with sludge and mud, chilled by the wind and rain, driving home to their objective, and for many, to the judgment seat of God. I do not know the dignity of their birth, but I do know the glory of their death. They died unquestioning, uncomplaining, with faith in their hearts, and on their lips the hope that we would go on to victory. Always for them: duty, honor, country. Always their blood, and sweat, and tears, as they saw the way and the light. And 20 years after, on the other side of the globe, against the filth of dirty foxholes, the strength stench of ghostly trenches, the slime of dripping dugouts, those boiling suns of the relentless heat, those torrential rains of devastating storms the loneliness and utter desolation of jungle trails, the bitterness of long separation of those they loved and cherished, the deadly pestilence of tropic disease, the horror of stricken areas of war. Their resolute and determined defense, their swift and sure attack, their indomitable purpose, their complete and decisive victory - always victory, always through the bloody haze of their last reverberating shot, the vision of gaunt, ghastly men, reverently following your password of duty, honor, country. You now face a new world, a world of change. The thrust into outer space of the satellite spheres and missiles marks a beginning of another epoch in the long story of mankind. In the five or more billions of years the scientists tell us it has taken to form the earth, in the three or more billion years of development of the human race, there has never been a more abrupt or staggering evolution. We deal now, not with things of this world alone, but with the illimitable distances and yet unfathomed mysteries of the universe. We are reaching out for a new and boundless frontier. We speak in strange terms of harnessing the cosmic energy, of making winds and tides work for us... of the primary target in war, no longer limited to the armed forces of an enemy, but instead to include his civil population; of ultimate conflict between a united human race and the sinister forces of some other planetary galaxy; such dreams and fantasies as to make life the most exciting of all times. And through all this welter of change and development your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable. It is to win our wars. Everything else in your professional career is but corollary to this vital dedication. All other public purpose, all other public projects, all other public needs, great or small, will find others for their accomplishments; but you are the ones who are trained to fight. Yours is the profession of arms, the will to win, the sure knowledge that in war there is no substitute for victory, that if you lose, the Nation will be destroyed, that the very obsession of your public service must be duty, honor, country. Others will debate the controversial issues, national and international, which divide men's minds. But serene, calm, aloof, you stand as the Nation's war guardians, as its lifeguards from the raging tides of international conflict, as its gladiators in the arena of battle. For a century and a half you have defended, guarded and protected its hallowed traditions of liberty and freedom of right and justice. Let civilian voices argue the merits on demerits of our processes of government; Whether strength is being sapped by deficit financing indulged in too long, by federal paternalism grown too mighty, by power groups grown too arrogant by politics grown too corrupt, by crime grown too rampant, by morals grown too low, by taxes grown too high, by extremists grown too violent; whether our personal liberties are as firm and complete as they should be. These great national problems are not for your professional participation or military solution Your guidepost stands out like a tenfold beacon in the night: duty, honor, country. You are the leaven which binds together the entire fabric of our national system of defense. From your ranks come the great captains who hold the Nation's destiny in their hands the moment the war tocsin sounds. The long gray line has never failed us. Were you to do so, a million ghosts in olive drab, in brown khaki, in blue and gray, would rise from their white crosses, thundering those magic words: duty, honor, country. This does not mean that you are warmongers. On the contrary, the soldier above all other people prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war. The shadows are lengthening for me. The twilight is here. My days of old have vanished - tone and tints. They have gone glimmering through the dreams of things that were. Their memory is one of wondrous beauty, watered by tears and coaxed and caressed by the smiles of yesterday. I listen then, but with thirsty ear, for the witching melody of faint bugles blowing reveille, of far drums beating the long roll. In my dreams I hear again the crash of guns, the rattle of musketry, the strange, mournful mutter of the battlefield. But in the evening of my memory I come back to West Point. Always there echoes and re-echoes: duty, honor, country. Today marks my final roll call with you.But I want you to know that when I cross the river, my last conscious thoughts will be of the corps, and the corps, and the corps. I bid you farewell. ______________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:50:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? Hello List: The Bentwaters case is one of the best cases that has come our way in a long time. Nit-picking is not going to change that. The book "Left at East Gate" has taken the authors *9* years to write. It seems to me that Kevin Randle feels skeptical about most cases except the Roswell case, of course. Considering that the Roswell case will be 50 years old and most of its witnesses are deceased, I would imagine that there are many more grey areas in *this* case. I believe that the "Left at East Gate" book should be read very carefully. Its an important case. Everyone should make up their own minds and draw their own conclusions for ethical and fair debate after the book has been read. Also, please remember that our opinions are just opinions and not fact. Thanks, Linda Cortile Generally speaking, Investigation and/or research should not be a competition. It only serves to get us nowhere - fast.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:47:54 -0400 Subject: Korff, Hesemann and Meier Recently, Michael Hesemann, a UFO researcher from Dusseldorf, Germany, stated that the infamous Eduard 'Billy' Meier cult case in Switzerland should be "re-investigated." This is a rather curious remark coming from Hesemann, who as Billy Meier's European publisher (a fact he conveniently 'forgets' to mention), is already on record as saying that the book he published on the Meier case in 1991 which claims that it's genuine, is the definitive work. What else is there left to "investigate", Michael? I would support a re-investigation of the Meier case, even though my own book, 'Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story', conclusively proves it is a hoax: but only AFTER Michael Hesemann addresses and 'explains away' scores of troubling issues, rather than continue to duck them. Here are just a few to start with: 1) _why_ was Meier's (now-ex) wife highly-touted originally, as a "credible" witness who supposedly saw the "spacecraft", by yourself and Genesis III, (the U.S. publisher of Meier's material), whereas now, Michael, you are claiming that she is not credible, all because she has denounced her husband as a hoaxster?? Where's your logic, here? On WHAT DATE did she suddenly STOP being credible?? 2) In the pro-Meier book that you published, you claim that Meier's Unter-Balm photos of 3/27/75 are authentic. Yet in my book Spaceships, in photos I took at the SAME LOCATION, on pages 150-151 I conclusively demonstrate with five pictures, that Meier used a model. How do you refute this, Michael? _Please_ refute _this_. 3) Why did Billy Meier and Wendelle Stevens adamantly deny that Kal Korff had ever been to Switzerland, undercover, and even sent FAXes to this effect, when they knew better?? 4) In the 'disappearing-tree' photos that Meier took which show a UFO flying around the tree that later "disappeared", how do you explain the fact that pictures taken by Meier himself (and others) four months _earlier_ at the same location, show no evidence of that tree?? 5) You claimed at the UFO West Expo that you "had thirty" of these tree sequence photos that Meier took, when Meier himself claims he only took 10. Where are these 'other 20', and will you send me copies if I pay for postage and film duplication costs? 6) In your book on Meier, Michael, why did you deliberately _mislabel_ Meier's first Fuchsbuel photos, the ones which show no tree because one never existed there, and claim that they were taken at Jakobsberg-Allenberg, which is another location entirely? Did you think no one would notice?? You've been to these locations, Michael, you should know better. What's your 'explanation'?? 7) Do you _honestly_ believe that Meier's 'dinosaur' pictures show _real_ prehistoric creatures that he "photographed" while visiting another planet and traveling through time? 8) Do you believe that Meier has travelled through time? 9) Do you believe, as Meier and the 'Pleiadians' do, that the Earth is only optimized for a population of 529 million and that any in excess of this number must be killed? 10) Speaking of 'Pleiadians' and Meier's doctrinal beliefs that he instructs his cult members to follow: which of the following beliefs do you endorse, Michael? And for those that you do not, please explain _why_ you disagree with Billy Meier and the 'Pleiadians'. Remember, the 'Pleiadians' are supposed to be "hundreds of years more advanced" than we are. So be careful if you disagree with any of them, Michael: According to Meier and the 'Pleiadians',: a) The minimum age for marriage for females is 25 years, and males 30 years. Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? b) Minimum age for producing offspring is Female: 28 years, male: 33 years. Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? c) Criteria for having kids is: 1) 3 years successful marriage, 2) proof of healthy, harmonious marriage, 3) proof of irreproachable conduct of the marriage partners, 4) Proof of ability to raise children, 5) Proof of health, 6) No affiliation with extremist groups. Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? d) Limit of 3 kids per family, no more. Do YOU agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? e) Birth control intervals must be every 7 years. Do YOU agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? So, Michael, do you accept or endorse these 'Pleiadian' tidbits of wisdom Meier says we must live by? And if so, what do you think of the penalties Meier says must be meted out to those who disobey?? According to Meier, these "penalties" are as follows: 1) Fines equivalent to 10 annual salaries for both offenders. Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? 2) _Sterilization_ of _both_ offenders (both parents in other words) Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? 3) _Castration_of_Offenders_ who are then segregated for life from the rest of society. Do _you_ agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? 4) The offenders' children are taken away and raised by the state/foster family. Do YOU agree with this? If so, _why_ and if not, _why_ not? So, Michael, what do YOU think of these admonitions by Meier and the 'Pleiadians', and _why_ don't you mention them in your various 'endorsements' of the Meier case?? Do you _believe_ in these principles yourself? If not, _why_ not, if so, _why_ so?? One final question, Michael: Which UFO case do you regard as more credible: THE Meier Case _or_ Alien Autopsy? Please state your reason(s) why you believe what you do. Of course, I could list _hundreds_ of other troubling points in the Meier case, Michael, but let's see how you handle these issues first. Now everyone knows _why_ people label it a cult, because Meier and the 'Pleiadians' tell everyone _how_ to live their lives and _what_ they should believe in! And some of these beliefs, to put it mildly, are rather 'unique'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 'Alien Autopsy' Cameraman From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:07:55 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:21:44 -0400 Subject: 'Alien Autopsy' Cameraman Dear colleagues, Last night (April 22) I had the opportunity for the first time to view the Fuji TV segment featuring the 'interview' with the alien autopsy cameraman. I would like to thank Mark Lee Center for supplying this material on video for me. As you may already know I received a telephone call from the alleged cameraman almost two years ago now. This lasted approximately 15 minutes and it was not tape recorded. To the best of my knowledge and to the best of my recollection, the man claiming to be the alien autopsy film cameraman as seen on Fuji TV does, and I repeat, does sound like the same person that telephoned me two years ago. Obviously, because I was unable to tape record the original telephone conversation I can not be 100 per cent sure, but I am as sure as can be under the circumstances that it sounded like the same person that I viewed and listened to last night from the Fuji TV show. Whether this adds suppoprt or not to the credibility of the film and/or the existence of the AA film cameraman I leave you to decide. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:44:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:16:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:51:33 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Dear Philip: > Please read the Halt memo again. It refers to two nights, not > three. And, I have a copy of a tape in which Halt and Warren > talk about the case. Halt said, "You're aware that the story > you've told or the stories you've told don't fit in with what > I recollect and other witnesses recollect." Warren responds, > "Oh, yes." > Later in the tape Halt talks of two separate nights of the > events. > None of this explains the fact that Warren was not physically > present at Bentwaters on the first two nights and there is no > evidence of a third night without Warren's tale. > KRandle Dear Kevin, The Halt memo gives the first date as 27 December l980 and also 29 December l980. The 'craft' was seen on the night of December 27 (according to Halt memo), the next day depressions wered found and radiation readings etc, and on December 29 more lights were observed. Halt was witness to the events on December 28 & 29 according to his memo. Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Hesemann's Mail-Box is 'Full' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:27:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:27:20 -0400 Subject: Hesemann's Mail-Box is 'Full' >Your message could not be delivered for the following reason: >Mailbox 100660.3672 is currently full. >Please resend your message at a later time. >--- Returned message --- >Sender: updates@globalserve.net >Received: from ebknapp.(dialin1193.globalserve.net [207.207.170.91]) [snip] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:47:54 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Korff, Hesemann and Meier >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Asks Michael Hesemann >Recently, Michael Hesemann, a UFO researcher from Dusseldorf, >Germany, stated that the infamous Eduard 'Billy' Meier cult case >in Switzerland should be "re-investigated."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:49:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:32:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:09:14 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >[text deleted for brevity] >This is exactly the kind of campaign that I was trying to convey, >Melanie. If enough people continue to do this, and get their friends >and relatives to do it, and KEEP doing it, so that a "movement" slowly >develops, it could theoretically become an issue that politicians >perceive as a vote-rendering platform. THAT is when we would get their >interest. >The thing to consider, here, is this: Truthfully, we, as UFOlogists, are >a very small percentage of the voting populace. This is why we MUST clean up the way that UFOlogy is perceived by many. We must endeavor >to "have our ducks in a row" by weeding out the nonsense and getting >the best information out on the subject for ALL to see. We can do >this via our web pages for starters. I have often gotten people interested >in this subject by talking to them about the "best" material; that which >really does have TANGIBLE and EVIDENTIAL backing. Then I direct them to >our website, and others' websites, where I have seen GOOD material. We >can't give them unsupportable and bizarre stories, but enough concrete >material to make them understand that the phenomenon is REAL. >And then we get them to write letters of their own, and tell people that >they know to look at the material and write letters. It could be a quiet, >yet effective campaign, once Washington perceives it to be a large VOTING >percentage of the public. I think you're on the right track, but let me mention a couple of points. Since the "Hill" is a political environment, most Members and staffers don't have the luxury of pursuing subjects they are personally interested in. In private they might express an interest in a subject, but their public stance may be far different for political reasons. But that only makes the job of bringing something to their attention more of a challenge, not an impossibility. Contacting your elected Representatives to express your feelings about an issue is always of value. Members always take such mailings into account when dealing with legislation, but keep in mind that mass mailings are often carried around in bushel baskets around here. If a number of generic (canned) letters are sent to Members, they will likely result in generic (canned) responses. Individual letters will, on the other hand, result in someone actually taking the time to read it and respond with a non-generic letter. The point is that an individually written letter will recieve more attention than one that is only one of hundreds lost in a bushel basket somewhere. That's not to say that large mailings are ignored, but more can usually be acomplished by taking the time to write an individual letter. Also, don't waste time writing to every Member on the "Hill". Concentrate on your own representatives, and perhaps Committee Chairmen. Members are much more responsive to those who vote for them, as opposed to those who have no impact on their re-election. While many Members now have "Public E-Mail" boxes that you can write to, this is not the best way of getting your views to the Member or staff. Individual e-mail to staffers can be useful, but the email sent to "Public" boxes usually results in a generic (translate that to 'automatic') email reply and a letter back to the sender. Many Members have jumped onto the email bandwagon, but there is no CMS (Constituent Mail System) yet designed to handle email in its database. They're working on it, but the vendors haven't yet tied it to their email systems. Keep in mind, we're dealing with 535 separate systems, and not one coordinated organization, and the demands are as unique as each office. Finally, it would be advantageous to concentrate on issues that relate to ufology, rather than ufology directly. For example, it would be better to coordinate a letter writing campaign against "excessive government secrecy", rather than an effort to "end the UFO=A0coverup". In this day and age, where the public is distrustfull of the government as "Big Brother", it would be fairly easy to garner support for an effort to limit it. There will be those that say it is an issue of "National Security", (with limited justification), but one could argue that with the end of the cold war, such secrecy can be scaled back. This type of policy change would likely require hearings before Congress, and this would be the place to submit any relevent evidence one might have related to a "UFO=A0coverup". Again, the goals are good ones, but the methodology will likely be the key factor here.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Apr 97 08:28:18 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:44:14 -0400 Subject: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! April 23, 1997-- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Noted UFO researcher Bob Shell announced today the formation of The Nearsight Institute. This new organization will teach and utilize the revolutionary technique of non-remote viewing to research UFOs and a variety of other unusual phenomena. Shell, who holds a PhD degree in industrial metaphysics from Miskatonic University, has been developing the techniques of non-remote viewing since the late 1960s, and has announced that he will now make his techniques available to the general public. He is now assembling a distinguished faculty from around the world to work on this project. "Non-remote viewing is simple to learn," says Shell, " it simply involves using your own eyes to look at evidence, a technique totally unknown to most paranormal investigators." Shell says he can teach almost anyone the techniques of non-remote viewing in a detailed two-hour seminar, and will begin offering these seminars in conjunction with the local YMCA in the near future. Price of the seminar is US$ 30. "This technique will revolutionize paranormal investigation," asserts Shell, " For the first time investigators will actually look at evidence and form conclusions from it, instead of the other way around which has become traditional in this field." /Permission to post anywhere granted without restrictions./
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [to Gary From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:14:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [to Gary OK, Gary, it seems as if we've gotten off potentially on the wrong foot here, and I am alteast half to blame. I will try this one last time with you, any further EMails should be off-line between the both of us. 1) I apologize for misspelling your name. By the time I ran your text file through some conversion programs, the "A" had gotten separated. I apologize again. 2) I did not say you had EMailed me from all over the world. I have received from all over the world, however, EMails from people who have commented on me either being a "spy," or having some "connection" to the intelligence community. For example, in your Email when you said "Are either of you aware of Kal Koroff's (sic!) ties to the American intelligence community?" a more accurate way of putting it might have been "Are you aware that Kal USED to do some consulting for various branches of the U.S. government?" And if you knew in what context this consulting was actually in, Gary, you would never have made this an issue in the first place, since it is not one at all. My "ties," as you put it, are past tense, and many years in my past. By comparison, since I have never been in the military, UFO researchers like Wendelle Stevens and Kevin Randle are career military officers. 3) To answer your question about my background re Uncle Sam: I do not presently work in any capacity for any U.S. government agency. I did years ago, and I have explained this. Most of my work, by the way, was for the Department of Energy in the field of personal computing. The Department of Energy, by the way, at that time had a significant portion of the "Star Wars" budget pie. Why don't you do a simple media search on me, Gary? Do your homework and check this out yourself! Try the WEB for starters, and some California Bay Area newspapers. I am not going to waste my time repeating stuff that's been in the public record in the media on me since 1977 when I was first featured in the papers at the young age of 15!! 4) In the past I have consulted for various law enforcement agencies and two federal law enforcement agencies. I do not have permission to name them and honestly don't know if I should just because I assume they are still pursuing various issues that I could not resolve due to the nature of the information at that time. One of these is a murder case that is still being investigated. I do not mean to be vague at all, I just haven't followed any of this since my consulting stint ended. I would have to check back with the right people to see where things are, and assuming they would even tell me, I guess I could talk about it then if anyone is THAT bored! Since this involved a rather large middle east terrorist group I doubt I would even be told anything. 5) Thanks for the compliment on HyperCard...I take pride in the fact that the version I helped write sold some 7 million copies for Apple Computer. 6) Regarding Bob Lazar, I am not interested in making George Knapp's "day" or anyone else's for that matter. I'll leave this to others. I used to work for the same contracting company just like Bob Lazar claims he did. You look it up, Gary. I was also matrixed to Los Alamos National Laboratory on occasion, as many at the Lab are that I worked with. They are "sister" sites. Last year, Stanton Friedman and I had talked about co-authoring an expose on Bob Lazar. Friedman would include the background info he found on Lazar and I would include the KMI stuff. Stan has mentioned this on his WEB site by the way. I am sorry to say, but I have no interest in authoring an expose by myself on Bob Lazar unless I co-author it with Friedman. I don't need to "expose" every fraudulent claim in this UFO field and would rather spend my time on more interesting and credible cases since I believe that UFO reports should be scientifically investigated. If, however, Mr. Friedman wishes to still co-author such a paper with me then I will seriously reconsider this prospect. Friedman has some very good data on Lazar and he is the best person to speak for his research. I just wish his investigation into Major Jesse Marcel's background had been as thorough. 7) Some the of "UFOlogists" I am referring to who thought it was just "horrible" that I could ever work for the government shall remain nameless. However, two of them have posted material here before. One of them even believes that JFK was killed by one of the Secret Service drivers of the limousine and that Kennedy was killed because of the illuminati. Now you know why I don't bother naming them?? 8) I am glad you think that terrorism should be stopped. Good for you. 9) I will not respond, nor comment on, your remarks about where to place people regarding "ground zero" at a nuclear impact point. Either you are trying to make a joke here, or I just don't "get" it, sorry. 10) You are wrong about the "spy" word. Ever since I came forth exposing the Meier case a few years ago regarding my book on it, I have been accused of being a "spy" or a government "disinformation" agent!! I even address this absurd charge in my Meier book, which you have not read, by your own admission. Maybe if you had, we might not be wasting our time on this. As UFO researcher Russ Estes has said, "If you have half a brain in this field, you're automatically labeled CIA." I think he's right. Because, Gary, you are simply the "latest" to levy (no pun intended) this charge, I felt I needed to address it hopefully once and for all. 11) Although I am a two finger typist, I type at about 60 words a minute...except on "ergonomic" keyboards. I am also thoroughly familiar with BOTH Macintosh and Windows 95 and NT, so I am not blaming Microsoft at all. I admire Microsoft, and came very close to working for them. I first interfaced heavily with Microsoft back in 1988 while setting computer software standards at Lawrence Livermore National Labs. 12) The first report ever that I typed on UFOs or wrote was in the eigth grade and it was more than 200 pages!! The media covered this fact when I was in high school. (Check the clippings, Gary, you'll see!) Since I have been able to type fairly fast since then, (1976) I never needed to take a typing class. No one has ever "complained" about my typing until you, Gary. I won't waste our time discussing this further. 13) For your information, and I mention this again in my Meier book, which you haven't read, Gary, when I went over to Switzerland undercover to study the Meier case I approached the case with an _open_ mind and threw out ALL my previous opinions on the matter. That's why I took Gary Kinder's "Light Years" with me (and all other Meier books) so I could re-investigate everything from scratch. This means both you and Hesemann and very WRONG when you say I was biased. No way, and I made a point to take a neutral witness who was with me at all times, in addition to a video and still camera that was constantly running. This way, there could be no doubt, the neutral withness was Tina Layton and she was there and saw everything. She knew nothing about Meier and got out of the whole thing a rather unique experience and three weeks in Europe for free, since I paid all her expenses. I suggest, Gary, that before you continue to make more erroneous statements re my Meier investigation (of which you know nothing about) that you read my book first! And if you do decide to research Meier, so be it. But you will have to get my book if you want all sides of the case, since it is the ONLY Meier book that says the case is a hoax, has footnotes in it which you can check, an index, etc. The book's ISBN number is: 0879759593. I will be happy to answer any questions you or anyone else has then. 14) Just because I am a former Apple developer does NOT mean I harbor "harsh feelings towards Microsoft." (your words, Gary, and they are wrong!) In fact, Claris (where I worked for 6.5 YEARS, longest job ever yet in my life!) writes for both computer platforms -- Macintosh and Windows. No problem here, Gary, you are wrong once again. Maybe you shouldn't try to "psychically" devine my motivations and thoughts. 15) Too bad you had teachers that would "rap" your hands with a ruler. With my teachers, no such actions were necessary. Since I type fast enough, except on those "ergonomic" keyboards as noted earlier, once again the subject of my typing is irrelevant. 16) Yes, I did review Sheridan Cavitt's military file and those of Colonel Blanchard and Gen. Roger Ramey and others. Maybe I will send them to you. There is no evidence that Cavitt ever wrote a report, just like he claimed! You may want to get back to your 'source' on this, Gary, and demand that they _prove_ it!! 17) I do have an "agenda" when I study UFO reports. My "agenda" is to try and determine the truth, whatever that "truth" might be. I am not a UFO "believer" (in a fath-religious sense), I simply admit the truth that I saw something one night (with others) that I have never been able to explain. I also have no predisposed ideas as to what UFOs are. Others will tell you they're extraterrestrial or something else. 18) Since you are "literal" one minute, Gary, and not the next, I don't know how to respond to your "familiar with everything that's flying" remark. I think you understood my point: That I am sufficiently acquainted with almost everything that is flying which means that my "UFO" sighting that I had has made me very curious indeed, ever since it happened in 1981. 19) You are WRONG about the anti-terrorist functions being limited to counter-intelligence. The FBI, which is law enforcement, deals in anti-terrorist and terrorist-monitoring activities all the time. Other than the law enforcement agencies, I have no idea how the U.S. government works these issues...SINCE I HAVE NEVER consulted for any of them!! The DEA also does this. 20) Finally, I don't think I did slander either Hesemann, Mantle, or Bob Shell. If their "research" on alien autopsy and other matters (in particular Hesemann) were credible, then yes, I would be guilty of slander. Since this is not the case, I don't think there's any such thing taking place. Bob Shell has written me for the first time lately, and as I've told him, until he comes to the table with something credible, I will not waste my time dealing with him. The same is true for certain other individuals, life is too short and time too precious. I wish to devote what energies I have to studying what seem to be truly baffling cases. I stand behind my statement though that I wish Hesemann, Mantle and Shell would tie up all their time "investigating" me. I think the UFO field would be better served if these three gentleman got out of it, or spent their energies doing everything BUT continuing to throw more noise around what little true "signal" that may exist behind the UFO data. 21) Lastly, Gary, since I _am_ a _known_entity_ in the media, I get requests for interviews all the time. Most of them I turn down. MSNBC sought me out, in particular the reporter, I did not seek them out. I explained already why they did this, so you can take it or leave it, I don't care. FOX also sought me out (ask Bob Kiviat yourself, the producer) and so did U.S. News & World Report and even the TV show Inside Edition, and Underground Video, who produced the Meier expose video I "star" in that Hesemann claims does not exist. I will not apologize for being in demand by the media. I will share with you what several reporters have told me, however: that they have found my investigations to be both newsworthy and refreshing because they can be independently verified. Try "proving" the contents of most UFO books. It is impossible, if for no other reason than many of the books don't even include footnotes or an index and the nature of their contents is tenuous. IN CONCLUSION As a human being who happens to be a UFO researcher, it hurts me personally when such charges as me being a "spy" or a government agent are levied against me. I don't think any of you would like it, especially when it isn't true, and is made with such abandon. I have been a UFO researcher for 23 years now, and have had articles published on the subject since I was 18 years of age in many pro-UFO magazines that no longer exist. That's how long I have been around and I started at a very young age. I have "bled" for the UFO "cause," and like many of you have sunk thousands of dollars of my own monies into studying this subject trying to find some answers. I have known people like Walt Andrus since 1980 and even knew the late Coral and Jim Lorenzen of APRO. I met Mr. Friedman when I was in the seventh grade, and it was through meeting Friedman that I started lecturing also in the seventh grade and started being featured in the media at a very young age. The UFO field is a difficult one to be in, considering the various types of people one must interact with whether one likes it or not. This fact, coupled with the nature of the data itself, makes things often frustrating. If any of you wish to think that I am a "spy" or anything even remotely close to this then so be it. As I mention in my new Roswell book, I will not grant the dignity of response to such a charge in the future. And I hope the rest of you reading this will do more than simply take out of context, like Gary has, a few comments from one internet chat like the one I did for MSNBC. Too bad Gary apparently missed my other chats on CompuServe, AOL and Omni. Maybe he would think differently. Obviously, Gary has a lot to learn about me, and the trail he must follow is a long one (due to my media coverage going back some 20 years) but it is "there" if he (or anyone else) wishes to persue it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFOs, SACs, High Powered RF Weapons & USAF From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:30:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:46:54 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs, SACs, High Powered RF Weapons & USAF Hi Gary ... you wrote: >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 02:39:50 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOs, SACs, High Powered Radiofrequency Weapons and the Air Force >The UFO literature describes several different types of Unidentified >Flying Objects. Some of these reports describe encounters with >devices which I would classify as structured craft of no known human >design, or structured alien craft (SAC). The UFO literature also >describes some unusual effects of these SACs. >One of their interesting reported effects involves the performance >of automotive vehicles in the presence of SACs. Reports dating back >as far as the 1950s state that a vehicle could become inexplicably >immobile and could not be restarted in the presence of a SAC. There >are also reported effects on electronic devices in the vehicle >powered by the battery, e.g. the car radio can become temporarily >non-functional. Some of these reports suggest that this disabling >effect is selectively turned on and off by the SAC. >An interesting subtlety of the effect is that those reports which >specify the type of internal combustion engine show that gasoline >powered engines and not diesel engines are effected. At least one >report that I read mentions that a gasoline engine was disabled >while a diesel engine near the gasoline engine continued running in >the presence of the SAC. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Gary, as a point of information, the following case from NICAP's journal the "UFO investigator," July 1973. ----start here---- Soldier Relates 1966 sighting VIETNAM UFO INCIDENT UNCOVERED Caught up in the war around them, American GIs stationed in South Vietnam in June 1966 rarely had reason to speculate about UFOs -- at least until the little-known Nha Trang UFO incident took place. The Nha Trang incident if thorough documentation can be obtained, could become a UFO "classic" according to one NICAP investigator familiar with the case. The sighting allegedly occurred during one of the most active periods of the Vietnam conflict, and understandably received little publicity at the time. Now, however, with American participation in the war concluded, numerous war-related incidents are beginning to emerge. One of these involves a startling UFO sighting witnessed by possibly thousands of soldiers stationed in Vietnam at the time. NICAP investigator Raymond Fowler conducted an initial investigation into the sighting and was able to contact an eyewitness to the event. Nha Trang , at the time of the reported incident, was a heavily defended base in South Vietnam located along the coastline. It served as the home base for more than 40,000 troops, including 2,000 American GIs. The base was situated in a valley, with warehouses and an airstrip to the east, a fuel storage area and hills to the west, and docks and storage facilities located to the south along the China Sea (see map, page 2) According to the witness, eight bulldozers were operating that night cutting roads around "Hawk Hill," located less than one-half mile to the west of the American compound. On another part of the base, two "sky-Raider" prop-driven aircraft were warming up on the airstrip located less than a mile to the east. At the same time, a Shell Oil tanker lay anchored in the bay about a mile to the southwest. The witness, an enlisted soldier holding the rank of Specialist 5, had gathered with an undetermined number of fellow soldiers around 8 p.m. in an open area of the base to watch an outdoor movie. Outdoor films had become possible only recently, according to the witness, thanks to the arrival and installation of six, new, independently-operated, 100 KW diesel-powered generators. One of these generators had been installed near the compound where the soldiers were seated and was being used to supply power for the movie projector. The film had been underway for some time, according to the witness's account, when suddenly, at approximately 9:45 p.m., the sky to the north lit up! The GIs glanced up and saw what at first appeared to be a flare exploding above a ridge to the north. "At first we thought it was a flare which are going off all the time and then we found that it wasn't." recounts a letter from the witness mailed home a few days later. "It came from the north and was moving from real slow to real fast...Some of the jet fighter pilots which were here...said it looked to be about 25,000 feet (in altitude) ... then the panic broke loose. It dropped right towards us and stopped dead still about 300 to 500 feet up. It made this little valley and the mountains around look like it was the middle of the day; it lit up everything. "Then it went up and I mean up. It went straight up and completely out of sight in about 2-3 seconds. Everybody is still talking about it." Had the soldier's letter or his recent account of the incident stopped there, the case would probably not have come to the attention of either NICAP or the (see Nha Trang Incident, Page 2) NHA TRANG INCIDENT (continued from page 1) officials from Washington that reportedly visited the base the next day. But the letter and the witness's account of the incident continues: "That really shook everyone is that it stopped, or maybe it didn't, but anyway our generator stopped and everything was black...At the Air Force Base about one half mile from here all generators stopped ... The engines on two planes that were the runway ready to take off stopped, and there wasn't a car, truck, plane or anything that ran for about four minutes." In addition, the eight bulldozers working on nearby hills also ceased operating according to the witness. "A whole plane load of big shots from Washington got here this afternoon to investigate. It's on the radio over here. Is it at home? I swear if somebody says they saw a little green man I won't argue with them." "Little green man" or not, the case could prove to be highly significant, despite the current lack of additional information. Compounding this problem is the witness's inability to recall anything more than the nicknames of those he was serving with at Nha Trang. Of extreme interest to NICAP, and apparently of equal interest to the "big shots" from Washington," was the associated EM effects reportedly caused by the strange UFO. The fact that diesel and gasoline engines scattered throughout the base all ceased to operate at the same time and remained inoperative for more than four minutes provides added mystery to the event. Included in the list of engines that ceased running at the time of the sighting, according to the witness, were those of the two "Sky Raiders" warming up on the nearby runway. One can only speculate what might have happened had they suffered a power loss while airborne. NICAP is currently attempting to contact appropriate Army officials in an effort to obtain the names of other enlisted or officer personnel who might have witnessed the event. NICAP is also seeking to determine whether officials from Washington did in fact visit Nha Trang the next day to investigate the sighting. -----end here---- Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:28:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:26:26 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Jeroen Jansen is WRONG! > >From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> > >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! > >For those who are in the possession of Korff's 1995 book, > >take a look at fig. 65, on p. 198 ... > 1) I did not do the final paste up and layout of my Meier book, > my publisher did. ... The thing to notice in Korff's Fig. 66 (a blowup of a portion of his Fig. 65) is the thin, roughly horizontal line above the beamship that looks like a scratch or brush mark, to which his 4 arrows point. He claims it is a supportive device (for a model UFO). However, the brush mark has a slight curve to it -- it is bowed upwards. Anyone who has hung clothes from a clothesline knows that only a slight weight suspended from the line will cause that line to bow downwards, not upwards. This line terminates without proceeding to the left side of the blowup, another feature not mentioned by Korff in his book. I thought I'd point this out before being placed on Korff's "to-ignore" list along with Bob Shell and Michael Hesemann. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | totlresrch |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Apr 97 13:30:49 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:43:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kal Korff Asks Michael Hesemann Note to UFO UpDates list members. Michael Hesemann's lack of response here on these posts is because Mike is travelling in the USA at the moment and is away from his computer. Since his e-mail mail box is full, I doubt that he will even see these posts unless someone will hold them and re-post to him on his return to Germany. I know very little about the Billy Meier case, and am not particularly interested in it. However, at the request of Wendelle Stevens I did take some of Wendelle's best photos, scan them into the computer, and used a variety of photo software (Photoshop, Live Picture, Picture Publisher) to enhance them and look for support wires, threads, etc. I could find no evidence at all of any such supports. This, of course, is inconclusive, since I did not have access to the camera original transparencies, and some types of support wires probably could only be seen in the first generation. Special effects photographers often make use of micro-thin tungsten wire to support models for photography, and this non-reflective wire is impossible to detect. It is readily available from some professional photographic suppliers, and I keep rolls of several diameters in my studio for those times when I want to create the "suspended in mid-air" effect in a photo. However, as I told Wendelle, I think three of the four photos he asked me to look at are fakes for a different reason. Large objects at a distance will show atmospheric dispersion in photographs, while small objects relatively close to the camera will not. In the photos I studied, the background scenery shows this effect, just as it should, but the 'UFOs' do not. This leads me to believe that these photos are fakes, showing small models close to the camera. However the fourth photo of the ones I studied is very different. It shows three 'UFOs' and one of them is behind a tree branch. All three show what I would consider to be normal levels of dispersion for large objects at a distance. Wendelle asked me how this photo could be faked. The only thing I could think of would be relatively large radio controlled models using ducted fan engines, as are used on some model aircraft. This would allow for a series of photos to be taken of the models, as Wendelle says was done in this case. It is interesting to me that in this photo the 'UFOs' are of smaller apparent size than in the others. I do not know about this fourth photo, but my opinion is that the other three are fakes, and this leads me to the opinion that Billy Meier's photos are most likely all fakes. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Five Discovery Mission Proposals Selected for Study From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:48:10 -0400 Subject: Five Discovery Mission Proposals Selected for Study Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC April 23, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) RELEASE: 97-78 FIVE DISCOVERY MISSION PROPOSALS SELECTED FOR FEASIBILITY STUDIES In the first step of a two-step process, NASA has selected five proposals for detailed study as candidates for the next missions in the Agency's Discovery Program of lower-cost, highly focused scientific spacecraft. The proposals selected for further study would send spacecraft to study Mercury, the atmosphere of Venus, the moons of Mars, comets and the solar wind. Following the feasibility studies, which are due for submission by August 15, NASA intends to select one or two of the investigations in October for full development as the next Discovery Program flights. "This excellent and innovative set of proposals really demonstrates the maturing nature of the Discovery Program," said Dr. Wesley Huntress, NASA Associate Administrator for Space Science. "The selected concepts include a mission to a planet, Mercury, that we have not visited with a spacecraft in more than two decades, interesting complements to our currently planned cometary and Mars robotic missions, and the first attempt to gather a sample of particles from the Sun and bring them back to Earth." The five selected proposals were judged to have the best science value among 34 proposals submitted to NASA in December 1996 in response to the Discovery Announcement of Opportunity (AO) issued on Sept. 20, 1996. Each now will receive $350,000 to conduct a four-month implementation feasibility study focused on cost, management and technical plans, including small business involvement and educational outreach. As stated in the AO, the initial cost estimates will be allowed to grow by a maximum of 20 percent in the detailed final proposals. The selected proposals are: - Aladdin, a mission to gather samples of the small Martian moons Phobos and Deimos by firing four projectiles into the moons' surface and gathering the ejecta during slow flybys, and then return the samples to Earth for detailed study. Aladdin would be led by Dr. Carle Pieters of Brown University, Providence, RI, at a total cost to NASA, including launch vehicle and operations, of $244 million. - The Comet Nucleus Tour (CONTOUR), a mission to take images and comparative spectral maps of at least three comet nuclei and analyze the dust flowing from them. CONTOUR would be led by Dr. Joseph Veverka of Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, at a total cost of $135 million. - Genesis, a mission to collect a sample of the solar wind and return it to Earth for detailed analysis. One of the finalists in the fourth round of Discovery program selections under the name Seuss-Urey, Genesis would be led by Dr. Donald Burnett from the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, at a total cost of $218 million. - The Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry and Ranging mission, or Messenger, an orbiter spacecraft carrying seven instruments to image and study the closest planet to the Sun. Messenger would be led by Dr. Sean Solomon of the Carnegie Institution, Washington, DC, at a total cost of $257 million. - The Venus Environmental Satellite (VESAT), an orbiter spacecraft to study the atmospheric chemistry and meteorology of Earth's cloud-covered neighbor using an imager, near- infrared spectrograph, a temperature mapper and an X-band radar. VESAT would be led by Dr. Kevin Baines of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, at a total cost of $173 million. The investigations proposed in response to this announcement (AO-96-OSS-02) were required to respond to the goals and objectives of the Office of Space Science's Solar System Exploration theme or the search for extrasolar planetary systems element of the Astronomical Search for Origins and Planetary Systems theme. The spacecraft must be ready for launch no later than Sept. 30, 2002, and meet the Discovery Program's development cost (launch plus 30 days) cap of $183 million in Fiscal 1997 dollars over 36 months. The concepts under study will follow four previously selected NASA Discovery missions. The Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR) spacecraft was launched in Feb. 1996 on its way to orbit the asteroid Eros in 1999. The Mars Pathfinder lander, carrying a small robotic rover named Sojourner, is due to land on the surface of Mars on July 4. The Lunar Prospector orbiter mission to map the Moon's composition and gravity field, scheduled for launch in September, and the Stardust mission to gather dust from Comet Wild-2 in 2004, currently are under development. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:50:45 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:29:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! >Date: 23 Apr 97 08:28:18 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >Subject: Press Release >April 23, 1997-- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >Noted UFO researcher Bob Shell announced today the formation >of The Nearsight Institute. This new organization will teach >and utilize the revolutionary technique of non-remote viewing >to research UFOs and a variety of other unusual phenomena. >Shell, who holds a PhD degree in industrial metaphysics from >Miskatonic University, has been developing the techniques of >non-remote viewing since the late 1960s, and has announced that >he will now make his techniques available to the general >public. He is now assembling a distinguished faculty from >around the world to work on this project. Hi Bob, Great initiative. I can't wait to become the European representative of The Nearsight Institute. Maybe after a few years of succesful operations we can expand our endeavors and found a subsidiary called The Hindsight Institute. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:34:31 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:45:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing In commenting on methodologies for contacting Congressional staffers and representatives on UFO-related issues, Steven Kaeser writes ... > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:49:27 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing [text deleted for brevity] > Finally, it would be advantageous to concentrate on issues that > relate to ufology, rather than ufology directly. For example, > it would be better to coordinate a letter writing campaign against > "excessive government secrecy", rather than an effort to "end the > UFO coverup". In this day and age, where the public is > distrustfull of the government as "Big Brother", it would be fairly > easy to garner support for an effort to limit it. Another potentially effective tactic might be to focus on the huge "black budget" appropriations which may support hidden UFO-related research - ref. CSETI position-paper at: http://www.cseti.org/unknow.htm Certainly in these days when it has become acceptable to examine budget excesses, Congress and the public should have every right to understand to their satisfaction how these black-budget billions upon billions are being spent. Surely any Congressman could relate to this, even if he wasn't interested at all in UFOs per se. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:21:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:37:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:04:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI Ed writes, >I personaly would like to thank Steven Greer for his >efforts on behalf of all of us. He has invested a >lot of money in putting together the briefing of and >for members of Congress and their aides. I reiterate, Greer is backed by big money. If he is "investing" anything, it's someone elses $. No one but Greer and a few of his cronies know how much was spent and with whom. I expect some accountability from people who *designate themselves* (my representative) in front of elected officials. Doesn't this bother anyone else? He set himself up as 'the peoples rep[resentative' in Washington! Balls! If this is all on the up and up, and for the benefit of the "people", why is it we still don't know who was even in attendance! One of my big problems with Greer is that he is every bit as covetous and secretive about his information and sources as any government agency! >While many of us in the UFO community may have reservations about >Steven and CSETI leading the charge on Capitol Hill... Oh you betcha Ed. I can easily think of ten better qualified people for the job beginning with Jerome Clarke! And God, do I miss J. Allen Hynek right now! Don't you question Greers statements Ed? Frinstance' He says that 90% of all abductions are conducted by covert government groups or agents. Where does he get the raw statistics for such an outrageous assertion. What's the (90%) figure based on? Who or what is his source for this outlandish/very serious claim? Charges as serious as the ones he makes need to be backed up. Greer hasn't offered anything by way of substantiation. Until he does, Greer and any theories he represents must be held in question. I don't trust people/and or govenments who keep secrets or withold information. >the fact is that he is doing it. The fact is he "assumed" the role Ed! I don't know, did you get to vote for him as your representative? No, I don't think so. It's a lot more like finding out you're pregnant and then trying to fall in love! Isn't it? <G> And guys like Larry Rockefeller made sure he had the 'grease' to pull it off. Do you question any of that at all? Shoot, it makes tons of questions buzz around in my head. Valid questions that deserve answers. >Its easy to sit back and carp when somebody else is doing >all the work. It's not "carping" Ed if it's valid. >Greer has taken the ball and is running with it. He >and his research director Shari Adamiak have contacted >me by email and assured me that my source was wrong and >that there were a number of members of Congress >at the meeting. As far as I am concerned, its case >closed on that one. I don't like the sound of that at all. Wadda ya mean, "case closed!" You almost make it sound like, "Thus spake the Lord" This isn't the first time we've had to settle for "Greer says so, case closed!" That's tin-pot dictator action. 1. As American citizens we have a right to know which of our duly elected officials were in attendence at this hearing. 2. If Greer is going to claim to "represent us" he better be accountable to the folks he claims to represent. Dictatorial proclamations are out! Accountability is in. 3. My memory is not so short that I have forgotten how very rude, condescending and nasty Shari Adamiak can be. (Does anybody remember her posts of last year?) She and Greer instigated a transatlantic mulligan not long ago (remember the Scottish researchers?) and she managed to trash and slander some (innocent) and well respected people along the way. (My friend John Stepkowski being among those Ms. Adamiak publicly slandered.) 4. All of you who sing Greers praises keep mentioning all the money that was spent in making all of this (fizzle) happen. Do you know about the Lear jets and the limo's and the transatlantic jaunts? Next time you talk to "Steve" ask him about it. I can think of other ways and other groups who would have better utilized those resources and funds. >Some of the criticism is simply foolish and uninformed. Apparently some of the 'praise' is too! <G> >Another researcher in England has expressed his concern >that Dr. Greer will be used by the insiders for their >own agenda. How odd, my concern is that Greer is attempting to use *us* for *his* own agenda! But then I'm just a naive New York City bumpkin. <G> >I would like to see more cooperation and working together >between all parties seeking a end to the UFO coverup at >this point. Its time for everybody involved to get past >the petty squabbling and lets get a end to this coverup NOW! I couldn't agree with you more Ed. Now if we can get Greer to listen,... "Don't follow leaders and watch yer parking meters!" Bob Dylan Sound council! John Velez (Speaking strictly for myself) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:57:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-23 12:29:08 EDT, you write: >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:44:16 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:51:33 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Dear Philip: > Please read the Halt memo again. It refers to two nights, not > three. And, I have a copy of a tape in which Halt and Warren > talk about the case. Halt said, "You're aware that the story > you've told or the stories you've told don't fit in with what > I recollect and other witnesses recollect." Warren responds, > "Oh, yes." > Later in the tape Halt talks of two separate nights of the > events. > None of this explains the fact that Warren was not physically > present at Bentwaters on the first two nights and there is no > evidence of a third night without Warren's tale. > KRandle >Dear Kevin, >The Halt memo gives the first date as 27 December l980 and also 29 >December l980. The 'craft' was seen on the night of December 27 >(according to Halt memo), the next day depressions wered found and >radiation readings etc, and on December 29 more lights were observed. >Halt was witness to the events on December 28 & 29 according to his >memo. >Philip. Hi Philip - Please read the memo carefully. You'll find that there were only two nights of activity. Halt in various interviews conducted after the events has said that there were only two nights, no third. He told Warren that Warren's tale had combined events on the second night with events on the mythical third night. The Bentwaters case is too important to have the water muddied this way. If we take Warren out of the equation, if we study the material carefully, and listen to what Halt and others such as John Burroughs said, then we can understand the event. By the way, Warren claimed to have been up next to the craft and Halt told him that no one was in front of him (Halt). We must look at the whole picture and that picture does not include Larry Warren. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:52:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-23 12:32:53 EDT, you write: << From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:48:01 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Hello List: >The Bentwaters case is one of the best cases that has come >our way in a long time. Nit-picking is not going to change that. >The book "Left at East Gate" has taken the authors *9* years to >write. I agree that the Bentwaters case is one of the best to come down the road in years. All I'm suggesting is that Larry Warren wasn't physically there during the two nights of the activity. It doesn't matter if it took 9 years or 9 minutes. If he wasn't there, he wasn't there. >I believe that the "Left at East Gate" book should be read very carefully. >Its an important case. Everyone should make up their own minds >and draw their own conclusions for ethical and fair debate after the >book has been read. > Also, please remember that our opinions are just opinions and not fact. >Thanks, >Linda Cortile The facts seem to be that Larry Warren wasn't on base when the events took place. Even Warren has admitted that he wasn't there. So how could he possibly provide eyewitness testimony. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 23 UFO Conference in Poland - 26th April From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:53:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:21:36 -0400 Subject: UFO Conference in Poland - 26th April This message was received for inclusion on my web site. As the conference is this Saturday I felt it best to also forward it to the list - John. ============ From: Marcin Kaczmarek <mckey@zakus.ita.pwr.wroc.pl> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 14:35:24 -700 To: john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Subject: UFO conference in Poland Saturday, 26th April DK Agora, pl. Pilsudskiego 2 Wroclaw, Poland The first Polish UFO meeting: UFO Forum 4:00PM Opening (Mr. J. Zagorski, Mr. B. Rzepecki) 4:10PM B. Rzepecki "UFO in Poland" - lecture 5:00PM Michael Heisemann's film about UFO 6:00PM Mr. Ryszard Kolomanski from Jelenia Gora - alien contactee 6:30PM "UFO over Tatra" - lecture of Mr. Robert Lesniakiewicz 7:15PM "UFO on internet" - Marcin Kaczmarek 8:00PM Mr. Andrzej Domala from Warsaw - person who contacts with aliens 8:45PM "UFO over Opole" - video footage from Mr. Andrzej Ogrodowski 9:15PM "UFO over Sudety" - Mr. Jaroslaw Krzyzanowski 9:45PM "Relations between old hebrew alphabet and Pleiadan alphabet" - by Wladyslaw Taraszczuk 10:15PM "Alien abduction Roswell - fact or fiction?" - film. 10:45PM "Biologic conception of UFO" - Mr. Marek Turski from Lodz 11:15PM Films, footages, photos and other about UFO about 2-3:00AM - end of forum. Sorry about so late info, but we couldn't be sure if that really happens. Please contact with us: by e-mail: mckey@zakus.ita.pwr.wroc.pl or snail-mail: New Civilization Center ul. M.C. Sklodowskiej 83/85 PL 50-370 Wroclaw Poland. ===================== John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:54:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:33:16 -0400 Subject: Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > Subject: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 00:06:40 -0600 > From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> > To: <aufora@spots.ab.ca> > Greer, Mitchell and a panel of "witnesses" asserted that several > extraterrestrial civilizations - working together from bases within the > solar system and possibly from temporary outposts under water on Earth - > regulary visit the planet and are prepared for widespread contact with > humans. > ****************** > AUFORA Commentary: > When reading this I was immediately impressed that Steven Greer quickly > moved to point out the difference between his request and that of a > modern sci-fi taught UFO buff. > However, his ideas do not seem to be terribly logical. Claiming that not > just one, but multiple extraterrestrial civilizations are hiding out > beneath Earth's oceans is quite extreme. And then, he naturally must > claim the government is covering it up (as if the government doesn't take > enough criticism!) I disagree - Blue Book is a closed subject for most people, and the cases are old, no matter how good some of them might be. The ocean sightings are reported frequently - lately CSETI group in Ontario watching lights enter and exit the lake; case of the elderly man in England with the UFO emerging from the Thames; Costa Rica photograph by the mapping plane in one frame showing a large saucer-shaped craft (from angle) entering or exiting Lake Arenal. BTW, I was in Costa Rica near Arenal and did not see but heard of many, many sightings involving the volcano and the neighboring lake. "Most every night" I was told - by ordinary people, not even very interested. And I'm sure you've heard of more - if THEY can walk through walls, mastering physical density barriers we obey, they can surely stay dry in the ocean, n'est-ce pas?> As for the coverup, isn't it the case that it's the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? And didn't many of these people make campaign vows to "clean up government". Sure, maybe it's posturing on their part, but probably based on some genuine concern. Does not seem inconsistent or even unwise to me. Look how Washington yelps about waste, fraud, and abuse - the coverup is that and more in spades! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:23:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! Re: > Date: 23 Apr 97 08:28:18 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: Press Release > "This technique will revolutionize paranormal investigation," > asserts Shell, " For the first time investigators will actually > look at evidence and form conclusions from it, instead of the > other way around which has become traditional in this field." Bob, Are we to assume that you perfected this technique _after_ your early investigations into the 'alien autopsy' footage? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: 'Expert' comment From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Apr 97 18:27:41 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:15:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Expert' comment >Date: 17 Apr 97 14:01:45 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Expert' comment Bob wrote; >Someone just pointed out to me that on the Hazmat web site you >can see similar suits in which an air filtration device is >strapped to the leg. I take it that the Hazmat suit is one from the 60's, or so? ie not modern? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 23:10:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:08:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >>From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> >>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 >>To: Updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Mr. Korff introduces line in UFO picture: (pp.197-198, Korff, 1995). >>For those who are in the possession of Korff's 1995 book, >>take a look at fig. 65, on p. 198, here Korff uses the >>transparancy of the paper to introduce a thin horizontal >>line about 2.5 mm above the UFO in the black/white >>representation of one of Meier's Bachtelhornli-Unterbachtel >>photographs. This "suspension line" actually is the upper >>part of the black framework of fig. 64 *conveniently* >>placed in the middle of the page 197! >>This is incontrovertable proof that Korff *fabricates* >>evidence to support his own theories. Note that Korff is >>the man who according to himself is an advocate for a >>"serious, objective, and scientific study of UFO reports" >>and accuses most other UFO researchers for having "some >>sort of agenda or preconceived idea to what UFOs are"! >1) I did not do the final paste up and layout of my Meier book, >my publisher did. Therefore, if there's a "line" that appears as >a bleedthrough, then it is simply a coincidence. Any sane rational thinking individual will conclude that *it is not a coincidence* that the upper framework of fig. 64, p. 197 has been placed in the middle of page 197 [leaving 1/4th of the page blank!] so that the black upper frame of fig. 64 *will create the impression* of a horizontal "supportive structure" about 2.5 mm above the UFO in Meier's Bachtelhorni Unterbachtel photo (fig. 65, p. 198) on the next page. The reason for this misleading action is also obvious; by introducing this line to the UFO photo you are (or your Prometheus Books publisher is) trying to create the impression that this line is the same one which features in your computer edge enhancement (fig. 66, p. 198). Both lines however are different ones; the one from fig. 66 isn't visible at all in fig. 65; the bleedthrough line is obviously introduced to fig. 65 to compensate for that fact and to create the impression that the line of fig. 66 is the same one visible in fig. 65. Anyone in the possession of your book can check this up and see that my critical remarks concerning your "scientific" research are scientific facts! Btw, regarding that "suspension line" in your computer edge enhancement fig. 66, 198; it's arced concave upwards. A suspension line with a UFO model attached to it would, normally speaking, be arced the other way due to Earth's gravity. >2) The computer enhancement I did was of the photo, NOT of the >printed page, so there's no way your mistaken impression that >it's a bleedthrough line is possible. You obviously misunderstood what I was trying to make clear to you. I hope you will understand it this time. >5) Why don't you address the Meier photos in my book on pages > 149-151, 238-239, and 250-251. > Are you going to tell me with a > sraight face that these are real photos of the planet Venus and > dinosaurs that Meier took, > and that the Unter-Balm photo was > not faked using a model? > How do you explain these, Mr. Jansen?? Mr. Korff: I'm always prepared to debate with an open and rational thinking mind Meier's photos & evidence. Regarding pp. 149-151: your claim "of finding the same *exact* spot" is totally INCORRECT. If --- I say *if* because I don't pretend to have all the answers regarding Meier like you do --- Meier photo number 41 has been hoaxed it's obvious the scene of action must have been the Fuchsbuel am Hafhalden site. It's dissapointing that you didn't note this during your 1991 "undercover trip" to Swizerland. Below follows a refutation of your claims regarding the Unterbalm photo (pp. 149-151). PHOTO NUMBER 41 =============== Meier claims he took this photograph of Quetzals spacecraft on 28 January 1975 through one of the portholes of Semjases beamship while flying at a height of about 1000 feet above Dorf Unterbalm. The photograph has been taken to the west and shows on the foreground the Pfaffikersee. The Greifensee (which is not visible on the photo) lies behind the dark mountain ridge on the foreground bordering the Pfaffikersee. The lighter distant mountain ridge lies behind the Greifensee. Analysis and refutation of claims by Korff ------------------------------------------ Korff (p.147) begins his "analysis" of this photo with argueing that the photo is likely, if not is a hoax because the interior of the beamship doesn't show up in Meier's horizontal orientated photograph while Meier allegedly took the photo through one of the vertical orientated portholes of Semjases ship. A quick calculation shows that Korff's argumentation is fallacious. First the approximate dimensions of a porthole of the beamship (height ca 31 cm width ca 23 cm) can be derived from the line drawings on page 405 of Stevens' 1982 book. Then when we enter the already known values (focal length = 42 mm, width on film width = 35 mm and actual width = 23 cm) in the relationship of width on film actual width -------------- = -------------------------- focal length actual distance from camera and we get a (maximal) actual distance from the porthole of 27.6 cm. As long as Meier held his camera within a range of ca 27.6 cm of the porthole nothing of the interior of the beamship would show up. Bearing in mind the reported narrow dimensions of the interior of the beamship (height about 1.9 m and a about 2.7 diameter) and also that Meier claims he took the photo while sitting in a seat in the beamship (Stevens 1982, p. 302) in theory it doesn't seem to be impossible at all that Meier actually took the photo within a 27,6 cm range of the porthole. - Then on the same page Korff claims to have found, during his 1991 visit to Switzerland, the *exact spot* from where Meier took his photo (p. 147, 149, Korff 1995). Moreover Korff claims that his findings disprove Meier's claim that the picture was taken from an altitude of ca 1000 feet. A comparison between the photos made by Korff (pp. 149-151) and the one by Meier (p. 149 and p. 151) shows Korff's claim of finding the exact same spot is incorrect since the background scenery visible in Meier's Unterbalm photo and Korff's reproductions differs considerably. To prove this let's measure the difference between the vertical extent of the background mountain ridge and the vertical extent of the darker foreground mountain ridge in both Meier's and Korff's photos (fig. 25 and fig. 26, p. 149, Korff's 1995) We first look at Meier's Unterbalm photo and especially to the dome in the dark foreground mountain ridge about 1.3 cm to the right of the saucer's cupola, the background mountain ridge above the dome is slightly flat there. The corresponding transect in Korff's photo can be found at about 4.3 cm from the left edge of Korff's photo. For both photos we then measure the ratio of the vertical extent of background-ridge to vertical extent of foreground-ridge (plus the reflection of the foreground hill in the lake). For Meier's photo we get 0.40 cm / 0.60 cm = 0.75 and for Korff's photo we get 0.33 cm / 0.65 cm = 0.51. The large difference in the calculated ratios conclusively proves that Meier's picture must have been taken from a considerable higher altitude and disproves Korff's claim of finding "the *exact* same spot" (p. 147, Korff 1995). Jeroen Jansen, The Netherlands.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:42:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:24:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier At 04:43 PM 4/23/97 -0400, Bob Shell wrote: >Date: 23 Apr 97 13:30:49 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Korff, Hesemann and Meier >>From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Kal Korff Asks Michael Hesemann ... >I do not know about this fourth photo, but my opinion is that >the other three are fakes, and this leads me to the opinion that >Billy Meier's photos are most likely all fakes. >Bob Shell Ok, le's go with your opinion that they are fakes - How were they done and how did a one-armed and very simple man who doesn't speak English, (or very little if that) manage to pull off some very clever hoaxing that has been an muchly debated focus of Ufology for about 20 years? Korff has been making noise for many many years about "how it was done and here's the evidence". Bullhockey. Sophistry and finagling photos with see-through lines in a book (how amatuerish, I mean really) _isn't_ evidence, and certainly isn't conclusive evidence of anything. Unfortunately, there aren't any first-generation photos of Meier's available so the whole issue of studying the original untouched virgin film is academic. I seem to recall a long time ago that Meier's wife (or ex-wife as the case may now be) had a fit and burned a lot of the alleged original photos many years ago. I don't expect that you could scan in any photos received from Wendelle Stevens and use the find-edge/sharpen filters or any other manipulation in Photoshop to detect an obvious method of suspension. Before anyone rabidly assumes I'm Meier "fan" (uh, nope) I have yet to hear or read one thorough, logical explanation of _how_ Meier explicitly hoaxed all his photos, created the warbling "sound" of the Beamship in the 70's, fooled dozens of eyewitnesses and the associated bizarre wierdness of Semjase' and Asket. If you or anyone else on this list can completely explain every facet of the Meier case with solid proof, I'm all ears. Obviously, Mr. Korff cannot, hasn't been able to and is still grasping when he has to resort to trickery with the photo "proof" in his book. Bah! Considering that Billy Meier isn't a very educated person, is definately one-armed, wasn't born wealthy, I'd like to know who financed his endeavors and how he managed to pull off some convincing "FX" in the Steven's films. Maybe it was the "Bavarian Illuminati" who secretly financed him. Suuuurre. Uh hmm..right. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Encyclopedia of World Myth, Religion & Magic From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:41:56 -0400 Subject: Encyclopedia of World Myth, Religion & Magic From: "Michael Astill" <nomad@fastnet.co.uk> I am collecting information regarding world mythology, religion & magic for a forth coming encyclopedia/database any worthwhile contributions or comments gladlly accepted. Articles printed will have credits. Sorry no web site as yet but I can be contacted at Michael_Astill@emarkt.com or nomad@fastnet.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:32:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:29:19 -0400 Subject: Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' Apologies if this has been posted here before, but I came across it while doing lookups in search engines and thought it might be of interest to others. This article was found at - http://www.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/mufon/journal/Feb-96-Books.html Don ==================== ** begin excerpt ** The UFO Press Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story by Kal K. Korff Prometheus Books, 439 pages, illus., hc, $25.96 Reviewed by Dennis Stacy <Picture> At a conference several years ago I was having breakfast with a scientist from a major university. It wasn't a UFO conterence per se, but over granola in his case and ham and eggs in mine, the talk soon turned to that subject. To my surprise, he reached into his briefcase and pulled out a small portfolio of UFO photographs -- the clearest I had ever seen. The photographs were taken by one Eduard "Billy" Meier; the scientist had purchased them on a personal visit to Meier's headquarters (now known as the Semjase Silver Star Center) near the small village of Wetzikon, Switzerland. My gut reaction -- in which I was hardly alone at the time -- was that the pictures were simply too good to be true. In general, UFO photographs are a haphazard business at best, one reason why they remain so controversial. But part of the early Meier mystique was not only the quality of pictures involved, but their sheer quantity. Visitors to the Semjase Silver Star Center, named after an alleged female saucer pilot from the Pleiades, can now pick and choose among (and pay for) over 1000 "UFO" photographs taken by a one-armed farmer with a reportedly defective 35mm camera. Many of the pictures were so good that they appeared posed, which, indeed, is just what Meier and his followers would eventually claim, particularly for an impressive series of photographs taken at nearby Fuchsbuel on July 9, 1975. Reportedly, at Meier's request for the definitive UFO photograph, Semjase flew her Pleiadian "beamship" around a large tree overlooking Lake Pfaffikon. When researchers later noted that the tree had mysteriously disappeared from view, it was patiently explained that it had been sent back in time because of radioactive contamination! My scientist friend wasn't the only one who swallowed this story without so much as a single antacid -- or attempt at corroboration. Two glossy, coffeetable-sized collections of the Meier photographs by Tucson-based Genesis III Productions quickly became high-priced collector's items among the UFO community. More books followed, including Gary Kinder's ostensibly impartial Light Years: An Investigation into the Extraterrestrial Experiences of Eduard Meier, from The Atlantic Monthly Press. The picturex and claims escalated from snapshots of the planet Venus and the future destruction of San Francisco, to dinosaurs, cave men and the alleged "Eye of God." They culminated, if that's the word, in Meier's publication of the Talmud Immanuel, which, according to Kal Korff, "professes to be the last true testament of Jesus Christ written after his crucifixion." In it, Meier claims that Jesus was not the Son of God, but a Pleiadian, of all people. Over the years, I corresponded with the scientist and again bumped into him on occasion. Each time I expected him to recant, or at least pull back slightly from his public support of the Meier "mystery" in the interest of science, but his belief only grew stronger. The last time I saw him he was working on an English translation of the Talmud Immanuel. How could such a scenario unfold? How could a man of reason, trained in physics and other scientific disciplines, take leave of his senses so uncautiously and completely? How could logic be so assiduously abandoned for the blatantly unbelievable claims of a charlatan? The answer, as far as my scientist friend is concerned, is probably purely a personal one, involving something akin to religious faith. Yet he was hardly alone in his acceptance. Another part of the answer, as made painfully clear in Kal Korff's stunning expose of the Meier cult, Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, is that ufologists must share at least some of the blame -- if for no other reason than that of not demanding enough of ourselves and our field of study. By not policing ourselves, by not requiring airtight evidence and critical thinking, we leave ufology (and the public perception of same) wide open to pseudoscience, rumor and tabloid innuendo of every sort and stripe. Of which the Roswell "alien" autopsy film is but likely the most recent, if hardly the last, example. Everyone's pockets are enriched by the process but ours. This is not to say that mainstream ufology as a whole ever accepted or promoted Meier's photographs and his other claims of so-called evidence, but certainly some fringe figures who style themselves ufologists did, and it is unfortunately with the same tar that we are all ultimately feathered. Spaceships of the Pleiades was delayed several times while in press, and it's my personal suspicion that the delays were probably due to the publisher's legal department, for author Korff certainly doesn't treat his subjects with silk gloves. Dissemblers are called dissemblers, sloppy (or no) investigation is so named, and so on. (In an increasingly familiar and disturbing trend, falsely claimed college degrees are the least of sins revealed here.) Duplicity and incompetence everywhere abound. In short, the whole sordid story of Meier and his many misguided supporters is laid out in often excruciating detail for the reader to see and judge for him or herself. If anyone's reputation has been injured thereby, more often than not that damage has been wholly self-inflicted. At 439 pages, Spaceships of the Pleiades is a big bruising book -- it's also a long overdue and necessary one. The year is young yet, but if you care about the field and buy and read only one book this year, you could do considerably worse. Don't be put off by the fact that Prometheus Books, a sort of CSICOP clearing house tor long, self-referencing manuscripts, is the publisher. Korff isn't out to demolish or debunk ufology so much as to improve it. Whether from within or without, however, probably remains to be seen. Since when do exposes, for example, ever sell as well as the original pose? ** end excerpt **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 CISU article on Meier From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:08:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:31:59 -0400 Subject: CISU article on Meier An old article but pertinent to the topic at hand. This article was found at - http://oasi.shiny.it/Homes/CISU/english/itufo2-4.htm Don =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ITALIAN UFO REPORTER International Newsletter of the Italian Center for UFO Studies Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (CISU) Vol. 2 No. 4 10 October= 1996 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This issue of ITUFOR consists of the English language abstracts of Issue No.= =20 18 (July-December 1996) of CISU journal <snip> ** begin excerpt ** MEIER, PROPHET OF THE PLEIADES Or: How to Change, in Better, Your Life by Exploiting People's Credulity=20 by Maurizio Verga A long article giving the first complete, and negative, analysis of the=20 famed Swiss contactee Eduard Billy Meier ever published in Italy. Though=20 largely based on the recent Kal Korff's book "Spaceships of the Pleiades",= =20 the article also makes a comprehensive review of the published articles in= =20 main UFO journals about the affair, and devotes a section to Meier's=20 ufological "promoters", and another one to the Italian scene. Since our=20 foreign readers are assumed to be familiar with it all, we limit ourselves= =20 to presenting the Italian side of the Meier case, plus the bibliography=20 (possibly the most complete ever published, but we may have missed a better= =20 one).=20 THE MEIER MYTH IN ITALY Ilse von Jacobi's Quick article (the one to launch Meier in to the German=20 public eyes) was also published in the August 1976 issue of the monthly Il= =20 Giornale dei misteri (journal of mysteries): a few staggering saucer=20 pictures and a detailed story of his first contact with Semjase. The case then remained known only to a few students for the next eleven=20 years, but in 1987 Gary Kinder's "Light Years" was translated in Italy and= =20 has since been the "best" story of the Meier case available in our country.= =20 In 1990 a great publisher (Rizzoli) published both the first book of=20 Genesis-III's "Contact from Pleiades" series and Meier's "Messages from=20 Pleiades", in a curious contemporary with Roberto Pinotti's first book=20 (Pinotti's Centro Ufologico Nazionale awarded Rizzoli for the "best book UFO= =20 information in 1990" during its Fourth National Congress in Milan, January= =20 1991; such congress was funded by Rizzoli, who also payed for the=20 proceedings, getting a full-page advertisement on the back cover and also=20 publishing a full-page announcement of the prize in its own Corriere della= =20 sera, the second-largest circulation daily newspaper in Italy!).=20 For the Italian launch of "Contatti dalle Pleiadi" Rizzoli had authors Brit= =20 and Lee Elders come to Italy, speaking at a press conference in the=20 International Book Show, guests at a major TV talk-show on May 23, 1990, and= =20 lenghtily interviewed in the monthly Vanity Fair, obviously presenting an=20 embellished and seemingly believable portrait of the Swiss contactee. Meier= =20 thus began to be widely, though lately, known in Italy, so that rarely can= =20 you speak about UFOs to the public without getting questions about him. A brief resume of the Meier case was also written by Roberto Pinotti both in= =20 Il Giornale dei Misteri and in his book "UFO: Cosmic Contact", in 1991, in a= =20 surprisingly "pro" attitude, leaving an open door to the "real case" and=20 even reporting Bruce Maccabee's openly-"con" analysis of the pendulum-model= =20 as if partly confirming a typical UFO "falling-leaf motion".=20 Pinotti also defended Meier-proponent Wendelle Stevens (who hosted him at=20 his 1991 International Congress and had announced plans to publish a book by= =20 Pinotti) as of his penal fine: Stevens could have been eliminated by some=20 cover-up intelligence agency.=20 In 1995 Columbia Tristar Home Video published an Italian edition of the 1979= =20 Genesis-III pro-Meier video, which was presented uncritically as a serious= =20 story (Roberto Pinotti was thanked as a consultant). More than the books,=20 such video has given Italian buffs a distorted picture of the Meier case,=20 making it look like a credible affair.=20 THE BILLY MEIER CASE: A BIBLIOGRAPHY by Maurizio Verga and Edoardo Russo =95AA.VV. (1979), UFO... Contact from the Pleiades - Vol I, GENESIS III=20 Productions Ltd., Phoenix - AA.VV. (1980), "Update on the Pleiades Contact Case", in Second Look Vol.= =20 2, No. 4, May-June 1980, pp. 10 and 12 - AA.VV. (1983), UFO... Contact from the Pleiades - Vol II, GENESIS III=20 Productions Ltd., Phoenix - M. Arends (1976), Eduard Meier - Prophet der Neuzeit ?, Rimsting=20 - California Study Group (1996), Documents on its WWW (Internet) Homepage - Manuel Carballal (1991), "Eduard Meier, el contactado de las Pleyades", in= =20 Mas Alla, September 1991, pp. 105-113 - James Deardorff (1985a) "Occultness and Ambiguity", in MUFON UFO Journal= =20 No. 208, August 1985, pp. 5-10 - James Deardorff (1985b), "The Meier case", in MUFON UFO Journal No. 211,= =20 November 1985, pp. 11 and 18 - James Deardorff (1990), Celestial Teachings, Wild Flower Press=20 - James Deardorff (1996), A refutation of false claims and distortions by=20 Korff, documento inedito - George Eberhart (1987), "Photographs and red faces", in International UFO= =20 Reporter, July-August 1987, pag. 19 - Manuel Fernandez (1992), "Eduard 'Billy' Meier: evidencia de un fraude=20 fotografico", in Javier Sierra (ed.), Mas Alla de los OVNIs, Madrid - Didier Gomez (1992), "Billy Meier: le contact=82 des Pleiades", in= Lumieres=20 dans la nuit No. 313, November 1992, pp. 36-37 - Josep Guijarro Triado (1991), "El fraude mas infame de la ufologia", in=20 Karma 7 No. 225, August 1991, pp. 18-21=20 - Richard Hall (1980), "New View of Pleiades", in MUFON UFO Journal No. 150,= =20 August 1980, p. 8 - Gary Kinder (1987a), Light Years - An investigation into the=20 Extraterrestrial Experiences of Eduard Meier, North Atlantic Monthly Press,= =20 New York - Gary Kinder (1987b), "Light Years: an open letter", in MUFON UFO Journal= =20 No. 228, April 1987, pp. 3-8 - Kal Korff (1980a), "The Meier Incident - The Most Infamous Hoax in=20 Ufology", in MUFON UFO Journal No. 154, December 1980, pp. 3-6=20 - Kal Korff (1980b), "The Meier photographs - Hoax from the Pleiades", in=20 UFO Report Vol. 8, No. 6, December 1980, pp. 14-21 and 44 - Kal Korff (1981a), "The Billy Meier Hoax", in Frontiers of Science Vol. 3,= =20 No. 3, March-April 1981, pp. 31-33 - Kal Korff (1981b), The Meier Incident - The Most Infamous Hoax in Ufology,= =20 Townescribe Press - Kal Korff (1995), Spaceships of the Pleiades - The Billy Meier Story,=20 Prometheus Books - Kal Korff & William L. Moore (1982a), "Contact from the Pleiades" in Fact= =20 and Fiction: A Categorical Response to Wendelle Stevens and Genesis III,= Moore - Kal Korff & William L. Moore (1982b), "'Contact from the Pleiades' in Fact= =20 and Fiction", in MUFON UFO Journal No. 173, July 1982, pp. 3-8 - Jim Lorenzen (1979a), "Open Letter to Genesis III", in APRO Bulletin Vol.= =20 28, No. 2, August 1979, pp. 1-3 - Jim Lorenzen (1979b), "More Ado about Meier", in APRO Bulletin Vol. 28,=20 No. 5-6, November-December 1979, pp. II-III=20 - Jim Lorenzen (1984), "Ufology - According to Whom ?", in APRO Bulletin=20 Vol. 32, No. 7, pp. 3-5 - Bruce Maccabee (1989a), "Pendulum from the Pleiades", in International UFO= =20 Reporter January-February 1989, pp. 11-12 + 22 - Bruce Maccabee (1989b), "Billy, no; Ed, yes", in International UFO=20 Reporter, May-June 1989, pp. 16-19 + 24 - Eduard Meier (1959), "Funfer-V-Formation von UFO's", in Ufo Nachrichten=20 No. 36, August 1959 - Eduard Meier (1988), Messages from the Pleiades: The Contact Notes of=20 Eduard "Billy" Meier, Vol. I, GENESIS III Productions Ltd. and Wendelle=20 Stevens, Phoenix - Eduard Meier (1990), Messages from the Pleiades: The Contact Notes of=20 Eduard "Billy" Meier, Vol. II, GENESIS III Productions Ltd. and Wendelle=20 Stevens, Phoenix - Eduard Meier (1991), Messages from the Pleiades: The Contact Notes of=20 Eduard "Billy" Meier, Vol. III, GENESIS III Productions Ltd. and Wendelle=20 Stevens, Phoenix - Guido Moosbrugger (1991), ... und sie fliegen doch!, Michael Hesemann=20 Verlag, Munchen - Luis Ruiz Noguez (1994), "Billy Meier: el mas polemico fraude=20 fotografico", in Perspectivas Ufologicas, pp. 55-63=20 - Dennis Stacy (1987), "Pro Meier", in MUFON UFO Journal No. 226, February= =20 1987, pag. 21 - Dennis Stacy (1988), "Reassessing the Meier case", in MUFON UFO Journal,= =20 pp. 3-4 and 22 - Hal Starr (1987), "Who stands behind Billy Meier ?", in North American=20 SETI Magazine No. 1, pp. 12-18 - Wendelle C. Stevens (1977), "A Most Remarkable Recurring UFO Case", in=20 Argosy UFO Magazine, May 1977, pag. 38 - Wendelle C. Stevens (1981a), "Billy Meier is No Hoaxer!", in Second Look= =20 Vol. 3, No. 3, March-April 1981, pp. 9 and 44 - Wendelle C. Stevens (1981b), "Kal Korff and the Meier 'Hoax': a Response",= =20 in MUFON UFO Journal No. 164, October 1981, and No. 165, November 1981 - Wendelle C. Stevens (1983), UFO... Contact from the Pleiades: a=20 preliminary investigation report, Wendelle Stevens, Tucson - Wendelle C. Stevens (1989), UFO... Contact from the Pleiades: a=20 supplementary investigation report, Wendelle Stevens, Tucson=20 - Ilse von Jacobi (1976), "Besuch aus dem Weltall: Die Frau, die von einem= =20 anderen Stern kam", in Quick, 8 July - Kolman VonKevickzky (1982), "Response to Stevens", in MUFON UFO Journal=20 No. 169, March 1982, pp. 16-17 - Werner Walter (1991), "UFOs, Botschafter ferner Welten", in CENAP Report= =20 No. 180, February 1991, pp. 15-30 - Randolph Winters (1992), "A search for Thruth", in International UFO=20 Library Magazine, pp. 6-9 and 40-41 - Randolph Winters (1994), The Pleiadian Mission: A Time of Awareness, The= =20 Pleiades Project Inc., Altwood - Randolph Winters (1996), Documents on his WWW (Internet) Homepage=20 ** end excerpt **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:51:28 -0400 Subject: GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show Hi List, Last week there was a report about a huge object that was photographed by the GOES-9 satellite. Some days later there was an explanation: the photographing equipment was to blame and there was no object. An hour ago I listened to the April 21 edition of Art Bell's radio program Coast to Coast that was posted as a sound clip on the internet. There was talk about more satellites that had photographed the same object, a pilot who had seen it and callers reported their own sightings. Since I cannot sit through the whole show (in Europe local telephone access is paid for on a minute by minute basis) I have only heard a few comments about it. Can some of you provide me with more information? If so, please be as precise as you can about the sources. Many thanks. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 CSETI - Washington State P.O.V From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:39:24 -0400 Subject: CSETI - Washington State P.O.V Dear Ed and all, I have been quitely reading and absorbing all that is being said about CSETI. I hope that no one will take offense to my comments as they are, after all, are only my opinion. There is a couple of points I wish to address about the CSETI group gathering in Washington D.C. 1. Despite the fact that our government cannot balance a budget, I think we give little credit to their knowledge of what is going on in regards to UFO's. Hello.....this is a matter of not only national security but international security. If they can see a dime on some street corner, I know that every government agency is aware of what is going on in every UFO group. 2. Dr. Greer, via Dr. Joseph Burkes approached the Washington State MUFON chapter last year about us hosting Dr. Greer and company. They wanted to come to Seattle to roundup some UFO's for our pleasure and entertainment. This of course would come with a fee. It had "70% probability". Somehow this reminded me of our recent local advertising for Whale Watching...."70% sighting guaranteed or your money back". CSETI wasn't offering money back! Am I missing something or like wheat futures, CSETI has cornered the market on UFO sightings. 3. If you are going to storm the capital how about taking very credible people with you. Let's talk about Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center. Being involved in both MUFON and the reporting center, Peter called me and told me that Dr. Greer had called him and asked Peter to turn over his information so that CSETI could use it at their presentation. This was not an invitation for Peter Davenport but an invitation for his information. Pardon me but if anyone is looking for credibility....Peter Davenport is the ticket. He is educated, smart, handsome and a darn good speaker. If you want credibility why not invite the guy who spends 24 hours a day answering sightings reports? I mean after all, he was good enough for Dan Rather and CBS two weeks ago....how about Washington D.C.? I guess I am just not a good "me leader, you follower" type personality. If I want to say something to Congress, I am not shy about writing letters with my own opinions. I do not always like how my dear government is run. However lets not ignore the fact that "possibly" what they know might not be information that is ready for the general public. Maybe most of us here have high IQ's and open minds but I do think John Q (Jane whatever) is not ready to handle any true information about the UFO phenonema. What would you say anyway? "oh yes....you are right....they are here". What would be the first question people would ask? "So what are they doing here". The reply from what we know as investigators would be information that could change most lives as we know it. What would you say....."oh not to worry, they have underground bases in mountains and in the ocean, and yes maybe even underneath your home! They come at night, take you, your spouse, your children. They test, they use females for breeding, they take sperm. Hey no problem!!!".Now what do you think the public would say? I am originally a Connecticut Yankee who has a Dad that just turned into a southern Baptist. I can tell you what my Dad would say. He thinks just because I am an "investigator" that I am playing with the Devil. If I was to discuss most of the information that I have learned, he would be sending out some little guys in white coats. And darn it they wouldn't be "aliens". Sometimes when I think about it perhaps maybe we all are. Just my opinion............ Kathleen Andersen State Section Director - MUFON Washington State U.S. Coordinator for Brisbane '97 UFO Conference
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:54:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:21:59 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI > I reiterate, Greer is backed by big money. If he is "investing" > anything, it's someone elses $. No one but Greer and a few of > his cronies know how much was spent and with whom. I expect > some accountability from people who *designate themselves* > (my representative) in front of elected officials. Doesn't > this bother anyone else? He set himself up as 'the peoples > rep[resentative' in Washington! Balls! If this is all on the > up and up, and for the benefit of the "people", why is it we > still don't know who was even in attendance! KUDOS to John Velez! You have said it beautifully. I certainly do not wish to have Steven Greer and his ilk representing me! > One of my big problems with Greer is that he is every bit as > covetous and secretive about his information and sources as > any government agency! Sounds familiar! He is doing exactly what he complains to the government about. > Oh you betcha Ed. I can easily think of ten better qualified > people for the job beginning with Jerome Clarke! And God, do > I miss J. Allen Hynek right now! There are an infinite number of people more rational than Greer. > Charges as serious as the ones he makes need to be backed > up. Greer hasn't offered anything by way of substantiation. > Until he does, Greer and any theories he represents must > be held in question. I don't trust people/and or govenments > who keep secrets or withold information. DITTO! > 4. All of you who sing Greers praises keep mentioning all > the money that was spent in making all of this (fizzle) > happen. Do you know about the Lear jets and the limo's > and the transatlantic jaunts? Next time you talk to > "Steve" ask him about it. I can think of other ways > and other groups who would have better utilized those > resources and funds. I am under the impression that not only were the "witnesses" flown, fed, and housed in DC, but so were the members of the press. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 California Briefing by Dr. Greer From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:52:34 -0400 Subject: California Briefing by Dr. Greer From: Steven M. Greer M.D. <Dr_ET@compuserve.com> * Please Distribute As You Deem Appropriate* On Thursday May 1, 1997, Dr. Steven Greer, Director of CSETI, will appear at a fund-raiser/presentation to discuss the historic Washington DC briefing for members of Congress, which took place earlier this month. Dr. Greer will provide an overview of the evidence and witness testimony, and will present parts of the briefing video which was provided for the congressional offices. The presentation will begin promptly at 7:30 pm and will be held at the home of CSETI member Mr. Les Morgenstern of Orange County California. A minimum donation of $25 is requested for those attending. Please RSVP to Mr. Morgenstern at 714-965-8180. Seating is very limited. CSETI
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:31:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:00:25 -0400 Subject: Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > Subject: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 00:06:40 -0600 > From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> > To: <aufora@spots.ab.ca> > AUFORA News Update > Tuesday, April 22nd, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ > _________________________ > GOVERNMENT HEARINGS URGED > Ft.Worth Star Telegram < snip > > ****************** > AUFORA Commentary: > When reading this I was immediately impressed that Steven Greer quickly > moved to point out the difference between his request and that of a > modern sci-fi taught UFO buff. > However, his ideas do not seem to be terribly logical. Claiming that not > just one, but multiple extraterrestrial civilizations are hiding out > beneath Earth's oceans is quite extreme. And then, he naturally must > claim the government is covering it up (as if the government doesn't take > enough criticism!) "The Government" is not a monolithic entity. One element of Greer's approach is based on recognition of this fact. Nor does he "naturally" make that claim, that the "government" is conducting a coverup. If you think that hiding out in the oceans is extreme, how about the claims of those who acknowledge the existence of extraterrestrial craft but would maintain that for 50 years or more all they do is fly around, makes sense! > >From a purely diplomatic standpoint, it doesn't make much sense to accuse > the government of conspiracy, and then ask for their help. Perhaps if he > had asked the government to reopen investigation into UFOs ala Blue Book > he would have accomplished more, and retained some degree of respect. While you are requesting another Blue Book type "white wash" investigation which was a farce of a scientific study (although a masterful and classic public relations bamboozlement) why not request another Condon Report "scientific study" for an encore, that would really be progress. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:07:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? Hello List: >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? [snip] > I agree that the Bentwaters case is one of the best to come down the >road in years. All I'm suggesting is that Larry Warren wasn't physically >there during the two nights of the activity. It doesn't matter if it took 9 >years or 9 minutes. If he wasn't there, he wasn't there. >KRandle I'll guess its a matter of whose word you're taking. Apparently, you're taking Mr. Halt's word and that of an audio tape, stating Mr. Halt as saying to Mr. Warren, "You're aware that the story you've told or the stories you've told don't fit in with what I recollect and other witnesses recollect." Warren responds, "Oh, yes." Then, later in the tape, Halt talks of two separate nights of the events. I'd like to know what else Mr. Warren said on the tape after he said, "Oh yes." Being a person who has also experienced these strange happenings, missing time is a big part of it. Mr. Halt may not have been able to recollect the same memories as Warren because of the missing time factor or the screen memory effect. Sometimes these effects last weeks, maybe years. Then, there are those who don't suffer these effects at all. It varies. In all probability, Mr. Halt is the one who wasn't physically there on December 27, 1980, which was the first night. He would *not* remember that evening if he wasn't there. His recollection is of the two evenings he *was* there, which was December 28th & 29th. So, I'll guess the third night is not so *mythical* after all. Personally, I'll take Mr. Warren's word for it. I don't believe that any one person would give 9 years of his life to write a book if it didn't effect him the way it has. As for *9* minutes, I wouldn't give 2 cents. <G> >The facts seem to be that Larry Warren wasn't on base when the events >took place. Even Warren has admitted that he wasn't there. So how >could he possibly provide eyewitness testimony. >KRandle What facts? We must remember that neither one of us was there. <G> Besides, who died and left Mr. Halt as boss? Mr. Halt's recollections are *not* Warren's facts. There were 3 nights and Mr. Halt might not have been there for one of them. It looks as though the whole picture doesn't include Mr. Halt. If you take Warren out of the equation, as you have said, then there is no case, just a tale. If Halt doesn't remember what has happened on a certain evening, that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. You're absolutely right, the "Bentwaters case is far too important to have its waters muddied." Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:18:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:30:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? About "Left at East Gate".... >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate' > Don't believe the hype. > One ought to suspect something is up with Larry Warren's > story when ufos start to appear early in his life. > Warren says he was a ufo buff in those days and that > admission alone would seem to compromise the > objectiveness--and thus, the credibility--of anything he > has to say about what, if anything, happened at RAF > Woodbridge/Bentwaters. But the story gets bigger and > stranger until, well, one simply cannot take it anymore. > Unless, of course, you already believe the government is > in cohoots with aliens, there are secret alien hide-outs > and tunnels under sensitive military installations, etc. > in which case everything falls into place as you might > expect. Curiously, the glowing reviews on the dust jacket > are written by marquee names, every single one wedded to > the alien abduction/conspiracy theory. Thing is, the book makes no such claims. Larry Warren, says the book, has memories of such things as alien "hideouts" under the Bentwaters base. But the book concludes that these memories were most likely created artificially, in a government mind control experiment. That, of course, is another can of nightcrawlers, but at least if someone wants to disbelieve the "hype," let's get straight exactly what the "hype" is. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:43:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:14:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:34:31 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project Starlight & Greer's recent briefing [text deleted for brevity] >Another potentially effective tactic might be to focus on the huge >"black budget" appropriations which may support hidden UFO-related >research - ref. CSETI position-paper at: >http://www.cseti.org/unknow.htm >Certainly in these days when it has become acceptable to examine >budget excesses, Congress and the public should have every right to >understand to their satisfaction how these black-budget billions upon >billions are being spent. Surely any Congressman could relate to >this, even if he wasn't interested at all in UFOs per se. >-Brian Cuthbertson Brian- Good point. But Congress already votes for the "Black Budget" as part of other programs. Trying to target this might be more difficult than you think, since much of that funding is included in unrelated items. To quote "Independence Day", you don't really think they pay $600 for toilet seats, do you?......<g> One of the problems is that there are legitimate national security concerns that come into play, and it will be nearly impossible to argue that all such secrecy is un-necessary. But a coordinated letter writing campaign from the grass roots of the electorate, painting a picture of concern for excessive secrecy and un-necessary high cost defense items, could shift the focus to that of examination and inquiry. Just a thought.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Korff Challenges Deardorff! (Hey, that Rhymes!) From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:02:14 -0400 Subject: Korff Challenges Deardorff! (Hey, that Rhymes!) To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:39:06 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen Jansen] >The thing to notice in Korff's Fig. 66 (a blowup of a portion of >his Fig. 65) is the thin, roughly horizontal line above the >beamship that looks like a scratch or brush mark, to which his >4 arrows point. He claims it is a supportive device (for a >model UFO). However, the brush mark has a slight curve to it >-- it is bowed upwards. Anyone who has hung clothes from a >clothesline knows that only a slight weight suspended from the >line will cause that line to bow downwards, not upwards. >This line terminates without proceeding to the left side of the >blowup, another feature not mentioned by Korff in his book. >I thought I'd point this out before being placed on Korff's >"to-ignore" list along with Bob Shell and Michael Hesemann. Dear Jim, As usual, you are WRONG in this matter. The line does indeed go across the ENTIRE LENGTH of the picture in the book, it's just that the halftone process used to reproduce the photo in the book does not show this unless you look VERY carefully. Maybe you should use a magnifying glass. This is the REAL REASON it is not mentioned, Jim, so there's no "mystery" here -- although I congratulate you once again for trying to make something out of nothing. Furthermore, the suspicious line cannot be a "scratch" (as you rationalize) because the same "scratch" shows up in many of Meier's photos taken that day -- a FACT I note in my book that YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE!! For your info, Jim, this fact is mentioned two pages previous in my book to the one you selectively cite from. For shame!! I don't think that I need to remind you, Jim, that selective choice of data does no one any good - especially yourself in this case. Moreover, Jim, since you do NOT have the ORIGINAL PHOTO as I do, nor copies of ANY of these enhancements, YOU ARE IN NO POSITION to comment on any part of this -- although you can always speculate, which you seem to be very good at. However, there is often a distinct difference between speculation and reality. I prefer reality myself. I have not put you on any "ignore" list, but the reason I have not been in correspondence with you is because there's no point in debating the merits of religion. I believe that Meier's Talmud Immanuel (or Jmmanual) is a fraud, you seem to think it's real, despite the fact that there's no original manuscript (conveniently, of course, like there's no original Meier negatives to his 'UFO' pictures around) for science to test. Despite this fact, people like Hesemann and Wendelle Stevens keep saying that Meier's photos have been "proven" to be real (nevermind the fact there's no original negatives). By this "reasoning" and their "standards" of "evidence," a photo of the Easter Bunny would constitute "proof" that the Easter Bunny does indeed exist! If you choose to believe that Meier is the messiah, or is Jesus reincarnated, or travelled back in time and met Jesus, well, whatever you choose to believe it's your right and I have no quarrel with this. Just don't try to tell me there's "scientific evidence" to back all of this up when I know better. It's bad enough you give UFOlogy a black eye in doing this, but do you have to blacken the eye of science as well? I find it curious, and most revealing, Jim, that you BLATANTLY IGNORE the SMOKING GUNS in my book which prove that the Meier case is a hoax. Therefore, I CHALLENGE YOU to REFUTE the following illustrations in my book on pages: 149-151, 153, 156-158, 161-162, 167-168, 169-193. Also, please DISPROVE my comments on Meier's "dinosaur" pictures and his photos of Venus, and the prehistoric "Cave Man". Do you believe that Meier actually ravelled back in time, Jim, and that his photos of dinosaurs, Venus, etc., are of the "real" thing?? What IS your opinion, for the record??? Instead of writing a paper attacking me and posting it on Meier's WEB page and hiding behind his cult, I really wish you had checked with me first. And WHY do you IGNORE these SMOKING GUNS like the one's I've mentioned?? I'm placing a bet in Vegas that you won't be able to refute any of this, and for the sake of the UFO field and what little credibility it has managed to eek out, I hope I lose this bet. I would rather be proven WRONG, and have the UFO database of cases be inviolate and trustworthy. This is why I choose not to correspond with certain individuals...Hesemann, Mantle and Shell amongst them. However, if and when ANYONE (even these gentlemen) bring something to the table that is CREDIBLE, I am all ears and would of course listen. Just like if you could refute some of the smoking guns in my book, Jim, I would certainly admit to you or anyone else where I erred, if indeed that's what I did. Better luck next time, Kal
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Lazar] From: Nick Humphries <nickh@PhoneLink.COM> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:24:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:44:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Lazar] >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:52:40 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:17:36 -0400 >Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Lazar] >Also, at this point I don't know if such a paper would >be productive. Lazar's claims aren't exactly "fresh news", >and even Billy Meier is more active than Lazar is today. Well, on the internet Lazar's spokesman and business partner Gene Huff and his cronies have been very very active recently. No new information, just very heavy flaming of all opponents. Check out the alt.conspiracy.area51 postings on DejaNews, or search for posts by Gene Huff (gufon@ix.netcom.com). Interestingly, Lazar also has an email account (either bufon@ix.netcom.com or desblast@ix.netcom.com). Nice to know he gets somone else to defend himself when he could just as easily do it. Nick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 New Mars Face? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:54:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:17:46 -0400 Subject: New Mars Face? Who knows. I'm only passing it along for your entertainment: _________________________________________ From: News Representative <news-release@riskers.org> To: "'press-list@riskers.org'" <press-list@riskers.org> Subject: NEWS UPDATE-Please forward to all lists available! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:24:09 -0600 (RINS) Denver, CO - RISKERS International released news of a new discovery on Mars earlier this week. A member of the RISKER organization appears to have discovered a new face on the Mars planet surface. It has been labeled the BAR discovery (Burisch-Andrews-RISKERS) Recently, RISKERS received some updated photos from a lab at UNC (University of Northern Colorado) These photos have been posted to the RISKERS site for review at: http://riskers.org/news "These new photos are quite impressive. It appears that we really are looking at something that could have been made by an intelligent race. Whatever it is, it is 'not' a natural phenomenon." - Todd Andrews - Founder RISKERS International. More imaging, including 3D conversion and surface scan, should be available in the next few days.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Sightings and Abductions in West Virginia - info From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:57:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:17:34 -0400 Subject: Sightings and Abductions in West Virginia - info Hi, John Waddell forwarded me this post. Can anyone help this person? If you can let me know and I'll get the two of you together. Thanks, Pat <pmason@ee.net> ______________________________________ From: JM To: jwaddell@netwalk.com Subject: Sightings and Abductions Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 01:48:36 -0400 I am trying to find out any information possible about sightings or abductions around Clarksburg, West Virginia starting in 1959 and continuing into the early 1970's. Anything you can send to me or tell me would be greatly appreciated. I grew up in that area and had multiple sightings during those years along with a UFO crash that the military descended on this town. I think that that year was about 1960. Also in 1959, I was five years old, I had a very close encounter along with my mother. That is why I am trying to locate this information. Thank you, JM ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 12:02:11 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:56:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release Henny van der Pluijm responded to Bob Shell's Nearsight Institute Release with... >Great initiative. I can't wait to become the European >representative of The Nearsight Institute. Maybe after a >few years of succesful operations we can expand our >endeavors and found a subsidiary called The Hindsight >Institute. Sorry to disappoint you lads but you've been pre-empted by hundreds of psychotherapists who are covert members of the Hindsight Institute (which is so secret not even it's members know where or what it is). Their agenda is to prepare this planet for invasion but I've forgotten precisely when. They create social confusion through the doctrines of 'repressed memory' and 'false memory'. :) Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* Discovery magazine: "Can we continue over E-mail?" Arthur C. Clarke: "I get too much E-mail... ... I've just hired my eighth secretary just to handle my E-mail."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:16:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:06:17 -0400 Subject: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' ---- >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >I agree that the Bentwaters case is one of the best to come down the >road in years. All I'm suggesting is that Larry Warren wasn't physically >there during the two nights of the activity. It doesn't matter if it >took 9 years or 9 minutes. If he wasn't there, he wasn't there. Hello all, I've been following the Rendlesham/Bentwaters discussion with interest. It seems that what with the collapse of all the big American cases, attention is now turning elsewhere. Well I'm afraid the following is probably only going to stir up the already murky waters some more, but this information is interesting and maybe important. I'll state my position, so that it is clear. I think that something did take place at Rendlesham forest; it wasn't a lighthouse, it wasn't the fantasy of some stoned or tripping troops or MPs (though they may well have been stoned or tripping) and it wasn't the landing of an ET space craft. Until a year ago I lived in Norwich, Norfolk, less than an hour's drive from the site in question, now disused. I got involved with the Norfolk UFO Society in 1995; being part of a grassroots group such as this is the best education into the colliding realities of UFO fact and mythology that anyone can get. Two of the members with whom I was friends were doing a great deal of investigation into the Bentwaters/Rendlesham incident (BRI) and came up with some intruiging and startling information. I'm working from memory here, so I'll be talking in terms of "some" and "several" rather than details, but the general impression should get the point across. This is what they uncovered: I make no claims as to its veracity, but it does fit and they did a lot of research, speaking to a number of people, including Larry Warren, who is almost certainly a liar. First some info about the base: It was a joint US/UK facility. It had the longest runway in West Europe. It was illegally storing nuclear weaponry, apparently in a large underground facility (no there weren't greys in it). Whatever happened on the two or three nights in question, the base was prepared for it: -- US Space Command were stationed there for several weeks beforehand, they specialise in the retrieval of objects from space. -- Civilian shipping lanes off the coast were closed and made off limits for several days around the time of the incident. It is likely that something was brought down from orbit, probably a Russian spy satellite, or perhaps a prototype vehicle of some sort. This may have been the same object as was involved in the Cash Landrum case in Texas, USA a day or two later. Larry Warren: The investigators met him, he toured them round the site, detailing what happened. He claimed that he had suffered serious radiation sickness and still did. He said his mother had the medical records. She knew nothing about it when contacted. Consider Charles Halt: He went from Rendlesham to command an ever larger, nuclear capable base in Germany. If the Air Force didn't want him to be touring UFO conventions, telling the familiar UFO/alien story, then he wouldn't have been doing it. He certainly wouldn't have been promoted in such a manner. My own suspicions are either that something was brought down, as outlined earlier, or there was some sort of nuclear accident, or near accident. Perhaps they were bringing in Cruise missiles illegally. The forest area where the landing was supposed to have happened was razed immediately afterwards, according to people who were there at the time. So it would seem that something unusual did take place, but once again, the military are using the convenience of UFOs as a cover to keep the event obscured by a cloud of delusion. Mark Pilkington Magonia online http://www.netkonect.co.uk/d/dogon/index.htm "Big words, smooth talking, BUT WHAT'S YOUR POINT?!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Apr 97 10:56:05 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:32:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:42:14 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier Don, >Unfortunately, there aren't any first-generation photos >of Meier's available so the whole issue of studying >the original untouched virgin film is academic. I >seem to recall a long time ago that Meier's wife >(or ex-wife as the case may now be) had a fit and >burned a lot of the alleged original photos many >years ago. I don't expect that you could scan in >any photos received from Wendelle Stevens >and use the find-edge/sharpen filters or any other >manipulation in Photoshop to detect an obvious >method of suspension. My _ONLY_ involvement with the Billy Meier case has been to examine four photographs which Wendelle Stevens sent to me. I do not know much about Meier, and, as I said, I'm not very interested in his case. Without access to camera original film, it is pointless to assert that much of anything could be proved. I do find it suspicious, however, that all of the originals are gone. If the Pleiaidians went to all this trouble to reveal themselves to humanity through Meier, don't you think their powers would have included protecting some of the original film?????? >Ok, le's go with your opinion that they are fakes - How were they >done and how did a one-armed and very simple man who >doesn't speak English, (or very little if that) manage to pull off >some very clever hoaxing that has been an muchly debated >focus of Ufology for about 20 years? I am convinced that three of the four photos I saw were simply photos of a small (one or two foot diameter) model close to the camera. This could easily be done by simply tossing the model into the air and snapping the picture. I think a one-armed man could accomplish this with practice, but it is more likely that he simply had others working with him. Also, people with no arms at all can do remarkable things with their FEET. Before discounting what can and can't be done by one person, study some stage magic and read up on the 'spirit mediums' of the 19th century, who managed to fool some very keen minds (often by keeping their hands in plain sight, but doing things under the table with their feet). I fail to see what Meier's ability to speak English, or lack thereof, has to do with anything! The fourth photo is genuinely puzzling, since it obviously seems to show three larger objects at considerable distance from the camera. One hypothesis I have heard put forward is that Meier had some real experiences and shot some real photos, and then things just dried up. By then he was addicted to publicity and the public eye, and to keep himself in the limelight he began to hoax photos and invent stories. Please understand that the question of whether there are UFOs or not lost interest for me in the early 70s. I've seen one of the bloody things, so the question to me is not if they exist, but simply what they are. I do not think that all UFO photos are fakes (or in many cases mistaken identities with fake stories attached, or genuine mistakes in interpretation of photos), obviously, but I think the majority of them are. To me it seems that seeing a UFO is a VERY rare occurrence, and photographing one much rarer than that. So I am automatically skeptical of people who claim to have photographed them repeatedly. I have a photo on my desk right now which came in yesterday's mail. It was taken in Northern California by a person not particularly interested in UFOs, and who has never photographed anything out of the ordinary before or since. It shows a disc shaped something very clearly. The disc has the proper attenuation to be at a considerable distance from the camera, and shows slight blurring which could be motion blur from high speed. I'm not declaring it genuine or fake, because I need to know a lot more about it. But just this sort of 'accidental' photo taken by a disinterested amateur is the sort of evidence I find far more interesting to study, and far more likely to be the real thing. Because I work as the Editor of a major international photography magazine, people send me odd photos all the time. Most are easily accounted for as camera malfunctions, photographic artefacts (most often lens flare), processing problems, or, much more rarely, film manufacturing defects. A handful are always in the unexplainable category, in that none of us can figure out just what the heck they are. Among this last batch is the occasional UFO photo. Coming into the UFO field from the technical photographic field, I have been absolutely blown over by the photographic ignorance of many of the so-called "photographic experts" and "analysts" in this field. Most of what I have heard at UFO conferences is pure bullsh*t. I met Ted Phillips for the first time in Arkansas two weeks ago. I was delighted to note in his talk that he used photographic terminology properly and showed a genuine understanding of the technical aspects of photography and photographic analysis. We had a brief conversation in which he reinforce my impressions by displaying a keen knowledge of photography in discussing some of the photos we had seen in the presentations of others at the conference. We need more like him. But he thinks most of the photos are fakes or mistaken identity, too, and that is an unpopular stance to take at UFO conferences. I'm sure I will alienate some by my comments, but this needs to be said. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: PSaintc798@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:09:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier In a message dated 4/24/97 10:11:51 AM, Don Allen wrote: ><<Ok, le's go with your opinion that they are fakes - How were they >done and how did a one-armed and very simple man who >doesn't speak English, (or very little if that) manage to pull off >some very clever hoaxing that has been an muchly debated >focus of Ufology for about 20 years?>> Can you explain me how the fact of not speaking English can be considered as preventing being a hoaxer? On the contrary, writing and speaking German helped Billy Meier continue his little business ( that's how he managed to make his income apparently since 20 years ): see the controversy between Korff, Hesemann and Shell about the subtleties of the german language. None of us, non-German speaking, can verify who is right about what and this helps Meier's claims. Jean-Luc
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Request for GOES-9 information From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:04:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:24:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Request for GOES-9 information The core of the story can be obtained at the National UFO Reporting Center website http://www.ufocenter.com/ The consensus seems to be that it is just another digital photo error. More information on GOES-9 can be obtained at: General overview of GOES-9: http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wsat2.htm Links to NOAA satellite info (including GOES): http://www.nnic.noaa.gov/SOCC/SOCC_Home.html A detailed look at GOES-9 and its interactions with ground systems: http://www.nnic.noaa.gov/SOCC/gifs/GOESsys.gif Current GOES subsystem status: http://www.nnic.noaa.gov/SOCC/gifs/goessub.gif (notes 15 and 16 indicate imager and sounder experiencing a temperature dependent open E/W motor winding) More information on subsystems: http://www.noaa.gov/news_flash/GOES.html (Interestingly, GOES data is transmitted to the ground for processing and then back to GOES for broadcast to GOES users - this multiplies the chances of data error: 1 down, 1 up, 1 broadcast (down); as opposed to 1 down only; also note that a significant amount of work to correct for satellite motion, thermal changes, etc is done on the spacecraft) Detailed specs of the GOES imager: http://140.90.207.25:8080/NSORS/ML/gsensor.html (It seems that all sensors obtain data simultaneously 1-8km / pixel at a time.) ------ Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing, and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 19:26:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:27:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff, Hesemann and Meier >1) _why_ was Meier's (now-ex) wife highly-touted originally, as a > "credible" witness who supposedly saw the "spacecraft", by > yourself and Genesis III, (the U.S. publisher of Meier's > material), whereas now, Michael, you are claiming that she is > not credible, all because she has denounced her husband as a > hoaxster?? Where's your logic, here? On WHAT DATE did she > suddenly STOP being credible?? What you fail to mention here is that Meier's (ex-)wife was accompanied by Hans Schutzbach (attorney), Meier's children and Amalia Stetter during her 28-6-1976 UFO experience. Kalliope's and the Meier children's eyewitness testimonies have been videotaped in 1979 by Yun-ici Yaoi of Nippon TV. Hans Schutzbach after the Meier's group is still convinced the contacts he witnessed were real. Kalliope was also reportedly involved in the audio recordings of the 48 minutes of alleged spacecraft sounds on July 7, 1980 at Ober Sadelegg. She was accompanied by more than a dozen witnesses (among them: Jacobus Bertschinger, Engelbert & Maria Wachter, Eva Bieri and two of Meier's children and the Doni family) who all heard the unidentifiable sounds. The sounds were recorded on 4 cassette tape recorders. There's also the signed eyewitness statement by Jacobus Berschinger (p. 153, Stevens 1982) describing the UFO experience of 7-2-1977 in which at a certain point "his [Meier's] family, whom he had allerted by radio, stood in the front yard looking at the object [UFO]". Of course it's the multiple eyewitness aspect of those reported UFO experiences that gives credibility to Kalliope's earlier eyewitness testimonies (and to Meier's claims in general). Since you *must* be aware of this data and choose to ignore it (here and in your book) your question to Michael Hesemann is extremely hypocritical. >2) In the pro-Meier book that you published, you claim that > Meier's Unter-Balm photos of 3/27/75 are authentic. Yet in my > book Spaceships, in photos I took at the SAME LOCATION, on > pages 150-151 I conclusively demonstrate with five pictures, > that Meier used a model. How do you refute this, Michael? > _Please_ refute _this_. I have disproven your claim of "finding the exact Unterbalm spot" on pp. 150-151 of your book in an earlier e-mail posting to this list. >4) In the 'disappearing-tree' photos that Meier took which show a > UFO flying around the tree that later "disappeared", how do > you explain the fact that pictures taken by Meier himself (and > others) four months _earlier_ at the same location, show no > evidence of that tree?? Another point you completely ignore here and also in your book is the demonstration (pp. 149-151 & 509-510, Stevens 1982) of the dissappearence/removal by the ETs of a 15 feet tall tree witnessed by at least 8 people (including Meier's ex-wife) and photographically documented by Meier. This data gives credence to Meier's claim that his contacters were able to do with trees what they wanted and might also explain the absence of the tree four months earlier. I don't pretend to have the answers for data suggesting such wizardry.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:18:25 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: Huge object > Last week there was a report about a huge object that was > photographed by the GOES-9 satellite. Some days later there > was an explanation: the photographing equipment was to > blame and there was no object. > An hour ago I listened to the April 21 edition of Art Bell's > radio program Coast to Coast that was posted as a sound clip on > the internet. There was talk about more satellites > that had photographed the same object, a pilot who had seen it > and callers reported their own sightings. Hello Henny, I also wondered about this, after hearing the relevant Art Bell show. But it seems 99.999% certain that the glitch on the GOES-9 images of 1530Z, April 16th, was just that -- a case of data dropout, in which the satellite transmissions for one reason or another suffered a momentary loss between the satellite and Wallops Island, or between Wallops Island and the weather central. Such has been seen before, I've been told. What could fool you is that the same glitch showed up on the satellite's infrared and water-vapor-channel images also. However, the three are all collected at the same time and transmitted on the spot as the mirror that the cameras look at slowly rotates from left to right, top to bottom, using a silicon detector made up of 8 elements that view simultaneously. And the glitch was 8 pixels in N-S extent, which is consistent with this. At the moment of data dropout or reappearance, the data was of course garbled, with some of it looking like bright values and some not; this caused the bright edge to occur on the western side of the black rectangular region of the visible image (as opposed to a north or south side). On the IR and water-vapor images, lack of data there looks like zero irradiance, which gets portrayed as bright, since cloud tops are colder than the ground and they want clouds (and water vapor) to show up as white in their images. So on those two images the glitch showed up as a tiny white square. As I understand it, the glitch did not show up on another satellite's images taken at about the same time. Here's another way of looking at it: the Weather Services have been doing an excellent job with available funding to get cloud pictures to the public and not cover anything up. So the aliens or ETs had no need to embarrass them; instead, they can continue to show up over certain military installations, which have a lot to hide, as well as showing themselves to selected individuals and groups. The UFO that the pilot and other witnesses saw could well have been a genuine one. Jim Deardorff Corvallis, Oregon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Dr. Michael Wolf From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 07:54:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:22:37 -0400 Subject: Dr. Michael Wolf Dear Researchers, For those of you researching one Dr. Michael Wolf, once leader of alphacom team for MJ-12 (allegedly), whose full name is Michael Wolf Kruvant, please note the following early reference to his UFO work as a teenager found on page 150 of the book, "Road In the Sky" by George Hunt Williamson: "On December 24, 1955, Michael W. Kruvant, director of the Flying Saucer Research Association of South Orange, New Jersey, transmitted a message to outer space intelligences via his light beam equipment. Five seconds after the message had gone out, two oval-shaped objects passed over his house in a northern direction. The great confirmation in this sighting is the fact that Mr. Kruvant had specifically asked in his transmitted message that the UFOs go over heading north to let him know his message had been received. A very nice Christmas Eve gift for one Earthman!" The funny coincidence is that I participated in a very similar light beam experiment in the summer of 1958 with George Hunt Williamson, John McCoy, and Carol Honey in a desert location not far from Giant Rock with similar results. Maybe Michael was a prodigy - he performed an experiment that many of us tried in the 1950's - contact with ETI using a modulated light beam (its earlier predecessor was an invention by Alexander Graham Bell called a "photophone") and this years before Steven Greer was signaling the craft to "vector in". Sincerely, Bill Hamilton AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:15:05 -0400 Subject: Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:32:42 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > Subject: Review - Spaceships of the Pleiades... > Apologies if this has been posted here before, but I came across > it while doing lookups in search engines and thought it might > be of interest to others. > Don Hello Don, and the List (to which I'm a newcomer): I saw this account by Dennis Stacy which you posted, and it seems to call for some reply from myself. It's pretty long, though, so I'll only quote pieces: Dennis speaking: > At a conference several years ago I was having breakfast with a scientist > from a major university. It wasn't a UFO conterence per se, but over granola > in his case and ham and eggs in mine, the talk soon turned to that subject. > To my surprise, he reached into his briefcase and pulled out a small > portfolio of UFO photographs -- the clearest I had ever seen. The > photographs were taken by one Eduard "Billy" Meier; the scientist had > purchased them on a personal visit to Meier's headquarters (now known as the > Semjase Silver Star Center) near the small village of Wetzikon, Switzerland. I believe I am that person Dennis is referring to, and it occurred at a SSE meeting in Austin, Texas, in 1987. I don't know why the content of breakfast was important enough for him to mention, unless it was to set up the impression that readers should identify with him as part of a majority and associate me with a minority. This is a not-infrequent editorial tactic. But I still do enjoy granola for breakfast. It is surprising that as late as 1987 Dennis still had not seen any decent copies of Meier's photos, which for many years Meier and his support group at Schmidruti made available at cost to interested persons. But the major U.S. UFO groups did not bother to look into the case personally when it became known in the late 1970s, because they automatically assumed, and still do, that all contactees are either hoaxers or disillusioned individuals. It was not the mid 1980s, in fact, that they were forced to start considering the reality of abductees' experiences, after so many of them came to light. So it was left to independent ufologists to research the Meier case in detail over many years, which Wendelle Stevens, the Elders, and Gary Kinder did, 1977-1985. After they could find no way the case could have been any hoax, this left bad blood between the independent researchers and the UFO groups who had not investigated the case, since the former knew better than to loan their 2nd-generation Meier film material to the latter. For such reasons, the debunkings of Meier were underway already by 1980, discouraging the non-independent types from wishing to look at high quality reproductions of Meier beamship photos and film for themselves. Why look into a matter seriously in the first place when, if you were later to honestly report on it, you yourself would receive only ridicule? The ridicule factor against the Meier case was even present at this 1987 SSE (Society for Scientific Exploration) meeting. > My gut reaction -- in which I was hardly alone at the time -- was that the > pictures were simply too good to be true. In general, UFO photographs are a > haphazard business at best, one reason why they remain so controversial. > But part of the early Meier mystique was not only the quality of pictures > involved, but their sheer quantity. So here is where Dennis Stacy, and even many scientific types, made a fatal assumption: that one particular UFO case could not stand out from all others in quality & quantity of supportive evidence and yet be genuine. Why make any such assumption when dealing with a phenomenon under the control of alien beings obviously greatly advanced over us in technology, psychic abilities, and *intelligence*? > ... Many of the > pictures were so good that they appeared posed, which, indeed, is just what > Meier and his followers would eventually claim, particularly for an > impressive series of photographs taken at nearby Fuchsbuel on July 9, 1975. Notice the "would eventually claim." Meier never denied from the beginning, in 1975, that they had posed their craft for him to photograph, and even described how he had been told in advance or through telepathic direction on where to go for the photographic opportunities and contacts. This kind of innuendo on Dennis' part does not serve him well. This knowledge dates back to Meier's own Contact Reports, typed individually by him only hours or days after the events, and made available first to his support group, and later, through Stevens' efforts, to a wider audience in his four volumes, _Message from the Pleiades_. > Reportedly, at Meier's request for the definitive UFO photograph, Semjase > flew her Pleiadian "beamship" around a large tree overlooking Lake > Pfaffikon. When researchers later noted that the tree had mysteriously > disappeared from view, it was patiently explained that it had been sent back > in time because of radioactive contamination! > My scientist friend wasn't the only one who swallowed this story without so > much as a single antacid -- or attempt at corroboration. Dennis was wrong here. Already by then I had checked with two professors in a forestry department at Oregon State University, shown them some of the pictures from this series of photos, and asked if they could identify what kind of tree it was that the strange object had posed around and had even nestled into its branches. (I asked them to try to ignore the object and to concentrate on the tree.) They had no problem of identifying it immediately as a *mature* abies alba (European Silver Fir). One of them had lived half his life in Western Germany and well knew just how the tree typically looked and how common it was over there. It was no baby tree, and no model tree; they didn't make model trees to look like irregular trees of a particular species, especially in 1975. Yet, "ufologists" like Korff are forced to assume it had to be a model tree with a model UFO somehow attached to it, because there is no way that superposition of images or negatives could have worked in that series of photos. (A claim that it was the same model tree as a tree seen in a Meier movie film taken four months earlier is also false, as seen upon close comparison of the two tree images.) As to the "radioactive contamination," as far as I know the witnesses reported to Stevens only that when the tree was first witnessed after the event, its upper part was noticed to glow in the dark. I know of no Geiger-counter readings having been taken. Anyone who wishes may still bring some good photos from this series, including the one showing the tree's trunk, to experts in forestry and ask them what kind of tree it was. (But it would be best to avoid taking it to any expert whose belief system would be shattered to know that UFOs are real, because his conclusions would have to come out such as to support his previous beliefs -- the usual catch-22.) Don Allen mentioned the supportive witnesses to some of Meier's experiences, and in this instance two of Meier's friends had gone to the site later to see just where Meier had taken the photos from, and they noticed the tree was turning brown and dying. So they are witnesses to the tree having existed. They are mentioned in Stevens' 1982 book (M. Rufer and J. Bertschinger); unfortunately, his two 500-page-plus books on the case have long been out of print. When they went back to the site still later to show others, the tree had vanished. Should we believe non-witnesses to an event, like Korff or Stacy, rather than the witnesses? Should we still express surprise these days when witnesses report that parts of a tree were damaged by a UFO having been too close? I guess Dennis found it improbable that aliens who can cause their own spacecraft to vanish or reappear, and who are noted for occasionally altering evidence after the fact and sending out "men in black" to curtail certain witnesses' from reporting further, would or could cause a tree of such strong evidential importance to vanish without trace. When Meier asked Semjase what had happened, he was told that the Pleiadeans had "changed the tree's time." What a contactee or abductee is told by his aliens should be considered more suspect of being disinformation than what the human witness himself reports, since so many contactees/abductees have been told so many things that conflict with each other, along with being told truths also. Yet, science has lately begun to allow for the possibility that time travel is not theoretically impossible, and some ufologists therefore think that aliens are future earthmen traveling back in time. So we cannot rule out the possibility that what Semjase told Meier here was truth associated with alien technology thousands of years ahead of ours. However, she also told him that they had had to wipe out a few selected memories of that tree from the property owner's mind (this is in a Meier Contact Report of 1975 or 1976). > ... They [items Meier reported on] culminated, if that's the word, in > Meier's publication of the Talmud Immanuel, > which, according to Kal Korff, "professes to be the last true > testament of Jesus Christ written after his crucifixion." In it, Meier > claims that Jesus was not the Son of God, but a Pleiadian, of all people. > Over the years, I corresponded with the scientist and again bumped into him > on occasion. Each time I expected him to recant, or at least pull back > slightly from his public support of the Meier "mystery" in the interest of > science, but his belief only grew stronger. The last time I saw him he was > working on an English translation of the Talmud Immanuel. I've studied the Talmud of Jmmanuel for over 10 years now, and find several hundred cumulative reasons why it can be no fake, and that the *first* Gospel written was based upon it; it moreover allows a scholarly type to deduce just where New Testament scholars have gone wrong in their reassessments of which Gospel came first, etc. Regarding who Jesus' father was, I think that the immaculate conception & virgin birth stories, combined with present knowledge of abducting aliens' preoccupation with hybridization with humans, causes even some Christians who have looked into ufology to ponder if an alien father might not have been involved. Moreover, if one reads the birth story in Luke, one finds that it comes within a hair of naming Gabriel as the father. Evidently Gabriel was a human-appearing "angel," just as the Pleiadeans are described as looking human or Nordic, so that hybridization in this case is not as much of a stretch as it is between humans and the greys. So it's well to keep an open mind on these matters. Yet, it's understandable that many Christians and ufologists with Christian backgrounds, as well as atheists, would be turned off by the Meier case after learning about the Talmud of Jmmanuel, and Meier's role in having been in on its discovery in 1963 and in seeing that it got published. It's true, however, that I helped Wild Flower Press in their English translation of the Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ); that was in an early stage in which I was a consultant, and a German-speaking collegian hired by the publisher was the main translator. This was after most of my own research on the TJ indicated its genuineness and its solutions to many uncertainties that have plagued NT scholars over the decades and centuries, as reported in my book, _Celestial Teachings_, also published by Wild Flower Press. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:47:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:16:10 -0400 Subject: Re: GOES-9, Huge Object & Art Bell Show > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: Huge object > Hi List, > Last week there was a report about a huge object that was > photographed by the GOES-9 satellite. Some days later there > was an explanation: the photographing equipment was to > blame and there was no object. < snip > > Since I cannot sit through the whole show (in Europe local > telephone access is paid for on a minute by minute basis) I have > only heard a few comments about it. Can some of you provide > me with more information? If so, please be as precise as > you can about the sources. > Many thanks. Be thankful that your telephone system has a per minute access charge it adds a kind of reality filter, at least you know when you are paying for entertainment that its expensive. You might try a Alta Vista search for the GEOS-9 images, they were posted on the web along with a technical explanation for the artifact. Look at them for yourself and have someone technically knowledgeable that you can trust for an analysis of the explanation if its not your forte. I wouldn't rely on Art Bell to provide a perspective or analysis. I no longer have the web sites URL perhaps someone can post it. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 16:28:58 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:20:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 23:10:51 +0100 From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Mr. Korff introduces line to UFO photo: (pp. 197-198, Korff 1995). Kal Korff wrote about the allegation that the illustrations in his book were placed back-to-back so that an image would bleed-through to give the impression of a supporting wire: >>1) I did not do the final paste up and layout of my Meier book, >>my publisher did. Therefore, if there's a "line" that appears >>as a bleedthrough, then it is simply a coincidence. To which Jeroen Jansen replied: >Any sane rational thinking individual will conclude that >*it is not a coincidence* that the upper framework >of fig. 64, p. 197 has been placed in the middle of page 197 >[leaving 1/4th of the page blank!] so that the black upper >frame of fig. 64 *will create the impression* of a >horizontal "supportive structure" about 2.5 mm above the UFO >in Meier's Bachtelhorni Unterbachtel photo (fig. 65, p. 198) >on the next page. The reason for this misleading action is >also obvious; by introducing this line to the UFO photo you >are (or your Prometheus Books publisher is) trying to create the >impression that this line is the same one which features in your >computer edge enhancement (fig. 66, p. 198). <snip> ...and proceeds to argue why Korff's analysis is in error, presumably making the case that Meier's photos and story are true. To quote Dennis Miller, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but... In light of Meier's proponents here, I suppose there are those among us who would make the case that George Adamski's remarkably similar contactee accounts (also with photos!) are equally valid -- even though, through the *real* scientific discoveries made by the widely lambasted (by UFO True Believers) Carl Sagan, disproved Adamski's Venusian bunkum once and for all. [If there are any appreciable difference between Meier and Adamski's tales, please let me know.] If the Pleiedians (or whatever ET species) wanted to make contact with the human race, they could do so in a more rational, less ambiguous, and much more productive manner than Meier's purported aliens have done. Frankly, I expect more than half-baked aphorisms from "Masters of the Stars." Humans are quite capable of producing half-baked aphorisms (which are the only "teachings" that Meier has passed along from his Pleiedians) on our own, thank you. I do find it odd that some have attempted to apply the tools of human reason to prove the most obviously unreasonable suppositions -- in this case, the proponents of the Meier saga. These attempts ultimately fall short despite the apparent vocabulary of reason, just as attempts to apply reason to prove the inherently unreasonable suppositions of religious beliefs invariably fail. How is this different from fundamentalist religious dogma that can answer any question of inconsistency or irrationality with the word "faith"? In my opinion, such "faith" all-too-often places its adherents at the mercy of con-men and/or crackpots. Would anyone here argue that ufology is not the domain of legions of con-men and crackpots? As with any religion, the zeal to realize the dream of contact with non-human intelligence has blinkered many to this cold hard reality of human behavior: for many, a glorious fantasy is preferable to a dull reality. The con-men are only too eager to cash-in on the crackpots -- who in turn seem eager in the certainty of their faith (so dumb they think they're smart) to be victimized. It's a vicious cycle that invariable results in "feedback" that obscures the signal for the noise. We've seen it right here, haven't we? It is this sad fact that presents the greatest difficulty to those who are quietly working to make progress in understanding this vexing, and possibly important, phenomenon. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:47:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:16:25 -0400 Subject: > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: Huge object > Hi List, > Last week there was a report about a huge object that was > photographed by the GOES-9 satellite. Some days later there > was an explanation: the photographing equipment was to > blame and there was no object. < snip > > Since I cannot sit through the whole show (in Europe local > telephone access is paid for on a minute by minute basis) I have > only heard a few comments about it. Can some of you provide > me with more information? If so, please be as precise as > you can about the sources. > Many thanks. Be thankful that your telephone system has a per minute access charge it adds a kind of reality filter, at least you know when you are paying for entertainment that its expensive. You might try a Alta Vista search for the GEOS-9 images, they were posted on the web along with a technical explanation for the artifact. Look at them for yourself and have someone technically knowledgeable that you can trust for an analysis of the explanation if its not your forte. I wouldn't rely on Art Bell to provide a perspective or analysis. I no longer have the web sites URL perhaps someone can post it. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 CSETI - Pro-Human point of view From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:05:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:14:32 -0400 Subject: CSETI - Pro-Human point of view Considering the fact that Bo, Do, Peep, Ti, and the rest of=20 the folks just went off to the next level, and considering=20 the fact that our spokesman for ending the great gummint=20 cover-up of the UFO mystery (hint..hint...the UFOs are=20 conducting the cover-up Steve...), I=A0thought I would=20 resurrect this old chestnut from the archives. =20 I began to think what might be really happening when=20 Dr. Greer slips into the night searching for his ET=20 space brothers............ =20 A Night in a Cornfield =20 (A typical evening with Dr. Steven Greer and his Alien Masters) =20 by =20 John W. Ratcliff =20 I would like to post a brief rebuttal to the recent upload regarding the =20 organization CSETI. CSETI provided this document titled "CSETI is =20 Science, not Cult" to defend their "good name", but I'm afraid it does=20 nothing but reinforce the idea that it is nothing but a new age UFO =20 cult.=20 Don't get me wrong here. I am not so much "anti-CSETI" as I am pro-science,= =20 and what CSETI is doing is anything but science. A point made =20 shockingly clear simply by examining their very own words. =20 In the second sentence of the CSETI statement the following declaration =20 is made: =20 "CSETI believes that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is not just a =20 theory, but is a fact of life." =20 CSETI believes the extraterrestrial "hypothesis" it not a "theory", but a = =20 proven "fact"? I think it's time to go back to the dictionary and look up = =20 the meaning of the words "hypothesis", "theory", and "fact". =20 CSETI "believes" the hypothesis to be fact? Not unlike the belief some =20 people have that Jesus walked on water? Or that a UFO trails Hale Bopp =20 because professional daydreamers get hysterical on the Art Bell program? =20 I'm sorry, but unless CSETI can cite proofs of the extraterrestrial =20 hypothesis it is far from a proven fact. I would grant, and many =20 others would too, that there is overwhelming evidence to support the =20 existance of a legitimate "unknown" phenomenon in the enigma we call UFO.=20 However, it would indeed take a cultist to adopt a belief system of benign = =20 extraterrestrials in the face of the overwhelming evidence gathered over the= =20 years that the phenomenon is none of the above. And now we have a =20 pseudo-scientific organization, one that practices all manner of mystical = =20 new age incantations, promoting this "belief as fact" ........based on,= what, =20 faith, dogma, a persuasive leader? =20 Let us continue.... =20 "CSETI is attempting to perform real time research of UFOs and ETs by =20 employing specific techniques and prearranged methods of attraction, or =20 as CSETI's director Dr. Steven Greer calls it "vectoring in an ET's =20 spacecraft to a carefully chosen research site.".... =20 I like that one, "vectoring in ET's spacecraft...." =20 Understand here, that I did not make this stuff up. This is CSETI's own= language, =20 to defend themselves from accusations of cult status, if you can believe= that. =20 Their contactee leader is Steven Greer, who "believes" that UFOs are ET =20 spacecraft, and may be "vectored in" (and I quote) by: =20 "powerful lights"... =20 "mediation..." =20 "playing sounds..." =20 Can I explain something here? An extraterrestrial in a spacecraft =20 several hundred light years away is not going to respond to Steven Greer =20 shining a flashlight in the sky. If Steven Greer goes out into a field =20 at night, and shines a flashlight in the sky, are we to presume (since =20 ET spaceships are a proven fact) that the flashlight sends a beam out =20 into the sky,and somehow, hundreds of light years away this flashlight is = =20 seen by a sentient race? =20 Picture this....... =20 An alien is just getting off of work, he's had a long hard day, and =20 stops by the pub for a drink. He leaves a few hours later, after =20 many long laughs with his alien buddies, and stumbles towards his =20 Sports Model UFO in the parking lot when, suddenly, he gets blinded =20 by Steven Greer's flashlight, 100 light-years away..... =20 Instantly, he knows what to do. =20 Still a little wobbly from the hard night of drinking, he jumps into his =20 spaceship and, realizing that Steven Greer was shining his flashlight =20 100 years ago, sets his warp-drive to time travel. He goes back in =20 time to flit about a field, at a distance, to amuse Steven Greer. =20 Our alien friend likes the nice music, and enjoys manipulating human =20 belief systems. =20 He dances around in his UFO at a great distance, carefully simulating =20 the running lights of airplanes from a nearby airport. On one =20 occasion he actually approaches the pathetic humans very close and =20 fries their brains with a microwave transmitter. They jump =20 around like island savages in awe of the White Man as he sits offshore =20 in his large sailing ship. Our alien pal manages to disable all recording = =20 devices and makes certain to leave no tangible evidence of his visit. =20 Soon our alien cousin begins to tire of playing these pathetic games, =20 so he warps back to his own society, place, and future. His UFO glides =20 into the driveway of his three story suburban alien house (remember ET =20 spacecraft are a proven fact) and walks in the front door, bellowing a =20 bit of lost humour "Aaay, Lucy, I'm hooommmme." =20 His bemused and surprisingly beautiful wife gives him a warm smile to =20 acknowledge his odd attempt at homo sapians humour. Seeing him like =20 this, full of pride from his nights adventures, reminded her why she =20 loved him so much. Lucy recalled that she had always been faithful to her = =20 husband except for that one dalliance with Antonio Villas Boas, "Ah, my =20 sweet, sweet, Antonio she sighed", an elvish twinkle sparkling in her =20 beautiful black eyes. =20 After his long night of carousing our alien master pours himself and his =20 lovely alien wife a drink, the moral equivelant of an earth martini. He =20 pats his three hybrid children on the head, and then sits in his easy chair = =20 regaling his wife with stories of those pathetic and idiotic humans on =20 that crazy planet 100 light-years away and a hundred years ago in the =20 past. =20 Just a typical night for Steven Greer "vectoring in ET Spacecraft" with =20 lights, meditation, and groovy tunes. Selling out the soul of humanity =20 as he prostrates himself like an island savage before the machinations =20 of the denizens of hyperspace. =20 There is a real UFO phenomenon. It is also multifaceted. It is no single = =20 thing. And we have no idea what it is. However, it does appear to =20 involve non-human sentience, and it does have a very dismal track record =20 of interference throughout human history. To embrace it in light of that= track =20 record is neither wise, nor particularily encouraging for the human race.= =20 Since Brother Greer has decided to act as my spokesman in the=20 face ot these alien hordes, I would kindly ask him to refrain=20 from inviting these entities into our lives, quit make excuses for=20 their abuses, and concentrate soley on the legitimate issue=20 of institutionalized secrecy inside the military industrial complex,=20 which really has gotten out of control.=20 John =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 A simple review of the Billy Meier claims From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:15:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:21:27 -0400 Subject: A simple review of the Billy Meier claims Before we get into a really silly argument about Billy Meier, let me just expound on a few of the more obvious things that should act as 'indicators' as to why this case is the biggest joke of them all: 1. Billy Meier, out of all people on this planet is chosen by benevolent space brothers to represent human-kind. 2. He is taken into their ships, which look suprisingly like models and is flown to Venus. He takes pictures of God's Eye, (Imagine what god's big toe would look like!) A caveman walking around, dinosaurs, (On another planet of course!) and Apollo missions. 3. He is given the last testiment of Jesus Christ(Who was a Pleidian!) which were translated into several versions. By the way, Jesus was born on the same day as Billy Meier: Febuary 3rd! 4. The aliens look suprisingly like human beings from the 70's! 5. The '4th state of pleidian metal' is actually silver solder! You too can own alien metal! 6. pp. 216-17 of Kal Korff's book, "Spaceships of the Pleiades". I don't need to elaborate. This is hardly a ship that could travel down the street, let alone out of our atmosphere. Stuff like this is what gives serious UFO research a bad name. After all of this, if Meier's story still sounds credible to anybody, it is because they want to believe him. Plus, Billy just doesn't offer us the secrets of our world and others, he offers it for a hefty price! Well, I've got to be going! Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Alfred's Odd Ode #128 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:34:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:22:41 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #128 Apology to MW #128 (For April 24, 1997) The questions we ask! The positions we take! Why, we=92re just splashing in the shallows. Concepts on cloning are vast suppositions. It=92s the haste that will put us on the gallows. "Could you clone me a johnson as big as John Holmes"? "Could you grow my old lady big boobs"? "Can I drink out my liver, get a new one, ya think"? "Could we breed out all the fairies, and the goofs"? "Could we make man into superman"? "Can we make some _for_ their work"? "May we clone the comely, pretty faces, "And turn wise girls into flirts"? "Is not this demonstration" "That we are our own dominion"! "That we know no bounds in this creation"! "Earth life=92s our vassal minion"! How do we so completely miss The broad side of the barn? It=92s not the cloning=92s problem That puts us close to harm! "Man shouldn=92t oughta fool with nature." Even wise ones often pule. While they feed raw meat to herbivores, Make them sicken, die, and drool. It=92s this, that bunch all white smocked right, And waving smoky test tubes.=20 The wealth in sight confounds their fright, As they=92re breathing on the big lube.=20 They think that they can insulate Their own lives from the horror? Like Mengele and Skinner, They think of science beyond mere honor? I sneer derisive at the lawmen Who think to outlaw cloning. They pretend that they can snuff it out, With a legislative stoning! They prevaricate a message That cloning is immoral! When what they _mean_ is "not for you," For the rich it=92s more pastoral.=20 They=92ll fund research in secret, The third world a guinea pig. And the rich will live forever! The poor will die, and beg! The one=92s that live forever Will walk the earth -- tin gods! They=92ll be looking _further_ down proud noses At those still breaking sod! There=92s but one way to preclude that horror. We must investigate the science. See where it goes, but do not apply --=20 And make a full report to conscience. We must have full disclosure Of what our science finds! We would, then, know potential -- Improve the quality of our lives. It=92s going to happen anyway! But just a few achieve it. "God=92s will they die like human flies "! ". . .God=92s Will, they eat our spit!" This is why it can=92t be outlawed! Because outlaws won=92t comply. And not ruled by regulation They could cause us _all_ to fry! But, don=92t preach on what=92s *unnatural* Because you have not shred or clue! WHATEVER occurs in this creation Could be as *natural* as the Alien View.=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com The Alien View says everything you know is wrong <sardonic grin>. Get lots of light on everything right away =96 full disclosure. Full disclosure of everything, though some time must be spent just grooving on the rubble <g>. I pray for a press brave enough to print a true story about some sociopathic science geek funded by a meter owner who was secretly growing body parts from Brazilian farm boys kept in conditions of=20 conscious vivisection. . . Don=92t think for a moment that Saddam isn=92t looking into it. . .this new medicine for one who would live forever. . .maybe you, assuredly me! And therein lies Shakespeare=92s rub. The Alien View says live in the moment, forever. . .but it also asks who has to pay so _you_ can play.=20 And why did the ATF people at the subsequently bombed government building in OK _not_ go into work that day, and be spared almost certain death? And what of testimony by an honorable (?) grand jurist at the root of that sordid affair. Mr. Heidleberg noticed such impropriety he was compelled to break the law, and tell the press the damnedest story! . . .Questions without comfortable answers. . .the answers are likely the medicine we need. . .Who IS Hoppy Heidleberg?=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for the lack of scales on his eyes, the lack of blood on his hands, and the lack of hypocrisy in his heart.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:33:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's brought to earth with a bump At 11:04 AM 4/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hello Michael .. you answered Joachim: >>>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >>>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:55:00 +0000 >>>Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>>Organization: Welt am Draht >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Date: 17 Apr 97 00:43:00 Central European (Summer) Time >>>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: UFO's brought to earth with a bump >>>Hello! >>>Here's something we retrieved for you: >>>--------------------- Begin of Document ----------------------- >>>Daily Telegraph dated 3 April 1997 >>>By Robert Uhlig, Technology correspondent >>>It is official. UFO's do not exist, aliens have never visited >>>Earth and all flying saucer sightings are now referred by the >>>military to private organisations, the American Defense Department >>>said yesterday. >....snip.... Thanks Jerry...I appreciate you sending this to me. I will do the homework. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:40:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:27:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:45 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >In a message dated 97-04-23 12:32:53 EDT, you write: ><< From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:48:01 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > >Hello List: > >The Bentwaters case is one of the best cases that has come > >our way in a long time. Nit-picking is not going to change that. > >The book "Left at East Gate" has taken the authors *9* years to > >write. Hello All, Teaser! I have contacted Peter Robbins and Larry Warren and provided them both with copies of this thread. ;) Neither of them is 'online' so it'll be diffucult getting timely responses posted. But, if you all can deal with the delays, I think we're all in for one lively discussion! I hasten to add that Peter Robbins is a friend of mine (via Intruders Foundation) and I wanted to give he and Larry an opportunity to respond to Keven Randle (directly) before the *unanswered* posts are splattered all over the web! So I'm just kinda looking out for a buddy here. I didn't want to respond to Kevin myself because I'm no expert on the Bentwaters case. I'm still learning about it. Keven has leveled some pretty devastating charges and they ought to be resolved face to face. So far it's been pretty 'one sided.' But Johnnys fixed that. Larry Warren has written a post and is forwarding it to me. As soon as I get it, I'll zap it to Errol for posting to the list. I look forward to a lively and informative discussion. I'm really psyched because I'm just half way thru "Left at Eastgate" and I'd purely love to check out a 'live dialog'! Whether you believe in the Bentwaters case or not, this book is a great read. A 'most compelling' case involving the military, the intelligence community, and a massive international cover up attempt of one of the best cases to come along since Roswell! Kevin Randle, Larry Warren and hopefully Peter Robbins will have the floor. Right about now I must look a little like Homer Simpson when his head is thrown back, his eyes are rolled up into his head, his tongue is hanging out and drooling as I mumble,..."Mmmmmmmm, a juicy new 'state of the art' thread to follow!" <glee> John Velez, GME (Grand Mixer Extraordinairre) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** * Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | krandle993 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:42:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:38:12 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >KUDOS to John Velez! You have said it beautifully. I certainly >do not wish to have Steven Greer and his ilk representing me! This is not the point Rebecca. The point is Greer is working toward a solution to the coverup. Weither you love him or hate him the point is he is a player and we all need to work with him. If you don't think he is a good representative, then work to support and involve others that you do respect. That way they can become part of the process too. To put it another way, you might not like some of the players on your team but you still play because everybody shares the same goal. The goal here is to get real hearings in Congress. The ball is in motion, do you play or don't you? You want a better team then bring in better players! I don't see any other players except the Deans with this kind of commitment to achieve political solutions to a political problem ie the UFO coverup. We have to work with what we have. We just don't have enough committed players to pick and choose. >I am under the impression that not only were the "witnesses" >flown, fed, and housed in DC, but so were the members of the >press. This is what it takes to lobby on the Hill. Its the political realities of the time. You just can't get anything done with out at least some financial backing and Greer has it. We all need to be developing contacts and networking together on this so that the members of Congress will have a network of people to rely on. If one of us falls on our face their will be others to take up the slack. And remember the nail that sticks up the farthest gets hammered. I would be very happy if others that have something to contribute or would like to help network on this issue would contact me. Those wishing to assist must realize that much of what we are working on must remain confidential. You have got to realize that nobody up there on the Hill wants to stand up and get shot down in the press. We have to get the numbers behind us before we can break into the public arena and take the onslaught of press and public focus. You can bet that the debunkers will be doing everything they can to make fools out of any public official that takes a stand in support of this issue. Right now I need a name, a email address, and a phone number of one of the staffers that are committed to moving this process forward on the Hill. I am already working with one person up there who is already trying to sort out what is going on. I think it is important that Operation Right To Know get involved in this hearing process. The best, Ed Komarek ORTK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! Kal Korff writes: > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! > As I state in both my Meier book and my upcoming Roswell book, the UFO field > is overloaded with people who simply don't think critically and do lousy jobs > at "investigating" cases. As long as the UFO field is overcrowded with kooks > and charlatans as well, it will never attain the status of a legitimate area > of scientific inquiry, nor should it. > > If UFOlogists really care about their field, they will ignore the Billy > Meier's of the world and concentrate on adhering to scientific and objective > principles. Before you get too carried away with your "scientific" and "objective" principles, could you perhaps respond to the following, which is an excerpt from a posting I had on this Listing, I believe last October: "I have also just recently read Kal Korff's book on Eduard 'Billy' Meier. "While I agree that the book brings up some serious questions about Meier's credibility, the book also raises qustions about Korff's credibility as a UFO researcher. "On page 141 Korff refers to a photograph that Meier took of a UFO hovering above a larger truck. The UFO is in perfect focus while the truck is blurred and out-of-focus. Korff states that both the truck and the UFO are 44 meters (144 feet) away in the distance, and that the UFO is hovering 325 feet above the truck. From this, Korff concludes that, since both the truck and the UFO are _the same distance from the camera_ the UFO must be a scale model located much closer to the camera, since both should be in equal focus. This is a careless and/or unscientific conclusion. According to my calculations, the UFO is in fact about 355 feet from the camera, which is about two and a half times as far away as the truck. Focusing on the UFO could therefore explain why the truck is not in focus. "On page 300 Korff refers to a circular UFO landing track. He tries to demonstrate how easy it would be to fake this impression, by using a circular-shaped piece of pressboard which can be easily obtained from any number of sources, such as a local lumber yard. He states that the "vortice effect swirls" in the grass can be duplicated by twisting the circular board. However, from a picture of the board (page 303), it appears that the board is about four feet in diameter. His conclusions therefore are likely valid for about a four foot impression. However, on page 325 Korff states that, depending on the source, the UFO was either 21 or 25 feet in diameter. Korff's demonstration is therefore of little scientific value, since: it is not easy (possible?) to obtain a piece of pressboard of this diameter; it is difficult to transport and store (also without being noticed); and it would be almost impossible to twist and produce the swirled effect (especially using one arm). From a scientific point of view, to duplicate Meier's landing track, Korff should have duplicated at least a 21 foot circle, preferably using only one arm. "On page 178 Korff refers to several pictures that Meier took of a UFO circling a tree. Korff stats that these pictures are a hoax since the tree in all pictures always facs the same side, even though the background scenery changes, covering a minimum of 180 degrees from horizon to horizon. I have examined the pictures in Korff's book, and do not understand how Korff arrived at this conclusion. Since the tree has an unusual formation at the top, it may _appear_ that the tree looks the same, but examining individual branches, it is clear that the pictures do show different sides of the tree. "With these and other examples that I could have pointed out, I no longer can consider Kal Korff as a serious, objective, scientific, careful and unbiased researcher. As Kal Korff himself states (page 386): "failure to conduct his 'investigation' via long-established standards of objective methodologies, relegates his work to the arena of pseudoscientific puffery". John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:28:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:38:12 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:21:59 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >> I reiterate, Greer is backed by big money. If he is "investing" >> anything, it's someone elses $. No one but Greer and a few of >> his cronies know how much was spent and with whom. I expect >> some accountability from people who *designate themselves* >> (my representative) in front of elected officials. Doesn't >> this bother anyone else? He set himself up as 'the peoples >> rep[resentative' in Washington! Balls! If this is all on the >> up and up, and for the benefit of the "people", why is it we >> still don't know who was even in attendance! >KUDOS to John Velez! You have said it beautifully. I certainly do >not wish to have Steven Greer and his ilk representing me! About Greer. Greer may not be the electorally chosen representative of the UFO field, but I can't remember any election. What Greer does is on his own initiative, because he thinks what he does is important. Greer on his own has achieved that politicians in Washington are listening to him and for the first time in 30 years there is a serious chance of open Congressional hearings on UFOs. This is more than 500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, 15,000 UFO researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day have achieved. Those who have problems with big money should consider this. What Greer understands is that the UFO field does not need more evidence, more cases and more debate, but more money and more influence. In the real world, evidence does not matter, influence does. Political influence in Washington does not come from books at Barnes and Noble, but from bringing big money to the table. Anyone who has followed the last presidential election campaign in the US knows this. This is an environment where fancy dinners, limo's with drivers and quid pro quo are part of everyday life. By letting himself be backed by big money, Greer at least shows that he is a man of the world and understands this. If Greer is only getting halfway in pushing politicians to open hearings on UFOs I personally don't care whether he flies a Learjet, a Gulfstream or a Concorde. About Greer's secrecy, here again he shows that he knows how the world works, because cooperation from key witnesses who had responsible positions in the armed forces comes only when anonimity is provided as long as possible. Greer has recently announced a presentation about the Washington events on May 1 in Orange County (as posted on this list). The problems I have with Greer are: 1) he thinks many abductions are done by covertly operating secret agencies. Well, here in Europe abductions are just as numerous and follow the same patterns. Are American secret agencies operating here or are European secret agencies copying the operations of their American counterparts? I don't think so. 2) he thinks that remote viewing is scientifically valid, whereas Dr. Courtney Brown's remote viewing group (of Farsight Institute) has demonstrated it is not, because they saw a spaceship with aliens coming in the wake of Hale-Bopp. These seem to me the real concerns that UFO researchers should have about Greer. Then again, if open hearings are allowed, other UFO experts can step in and set the record straight. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:51:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:51:49 -0400 Subject: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' ---- Forwarded Message: From: Martin Adamson <martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk> To: forteana@ftp1.primenet.com Date: Friday, April 25, 1997 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Rendlesham It was a joint US/UK facility. It had the longest runway in West. In fact it was a purely US facility. Back in ye olden dayes of the Cold War such facilities were always called RAF bases - maps, roadsigns etc always referred to it as RAF Bentwaters but this was just a fig leaf. They were 100% US owned. Martin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:51:39 -0400 Subject: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' From: Mark Pilkington <Markp@syzgy.co.uk> To: Updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: Rendlesham & Left at East Gate Date: Thu. 24 Apr. 1997 > This is what they uncovered: I make no claims as to its veracity, >but it does fit and they did a lot of research, speaking to a number >of people, including Larry Warren, who is most certainly a liar. M Pilkington - UK Dear Mr. Pilkington: Poppycock!!! You're probably a friend of Mr. Halt's or whom ever. Are you trying to tell us that the Bentwaters case was just a cover-up for a mistake that might've been made? How could you make such blind statements without being sure of the *veracity* of what you've heard and expect us to believe you? We aren't stupid! From the looks of what you have written, it sounds as though your information is third or fourth hand. Perhaps, you're making it up as you go along. How dare you call Mr. Warren a liar!!!! If what these poor people saw, wasn't from out of space, then your *tale* is from out of space. Nuff said !!! Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 New Roswell Info From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:06:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:45:50 -0400 Subject: New Roswell Info Everybody just a little interested in the Roswell incident ought to know the author Kevin Randle and Captain O.W. "Pappy" Henderson, who was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, assigned to Roswell Army Air Field. He claimed to have flown strange debris and alien bodies from Roswell to Wright Field, but can anybody shed further light on this item forwarded from "alt.alien.research"? ____________________________ 25. April 1997 00.09.24 alt.alien.research Item From: cosmicc@teleport.com,usenet Subject: New Roswell Info To: alt.alien.research As of Sunday April 20,1997 " LIVE " on the Cosmic Connection Television Show. Col. Roswell (not his real name) has come forth and told of the two individuals involved in testing material of the crash in 47. Pappy Henderson and the other member of a team of material witnesses who have been testing and documenting their research. The Colonel spoke on the Cosmic Connection. That a one Kevin Randle: Author of" The Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell" would be the first to recieve any information and material pertaining to The Roswell Crash. The Colonel wishes to remain low key as to his identity. As he does not care about celebrity. He has appeared on the Cosmic Connection Program 3 times now and these shows are being sought after as the truth in UFO reporting. cosmicc@teleport.com To be contacted if further information or the ordering of tapes of past Col. Roswell interviews are needed as this is breaking news about the 47 crash. Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:09:24 -0700 From: Cosmic Connection <cosmicc@teleport.com> Subject: New Roswell Info Message-ID: <335FDA14.5F06@teleport.com> Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | cosmicc
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Sightings and Abductions in West Virginia - From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:00:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:56:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Sightings and Abductions in West Virginia - > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:57:14 -0400 > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> > Subject: Sightings and Abductions in West Virginia - info request > I am trying to find out any information possible about sightings or > abductions around Clarksburg, West Virginia starting in 1959 and > continuing into the early 1970's. > Anything you can send to me or tell me would be greatly appreciated. > I grew up in that area and had multiple sightings during those years > along with a UFO crash that the military descended on this town. I > think that that year was about 1960. You might try getting in contact with Bob Teets, who wrote "West Virginia UFOs - Close Encounters in the Mountain State." (1995) He does not give an address, but to order additional copies of the book, the address is Headline Books, P.O> Box 52, Terra Alta, WV, 26764. You might be able to look up that phone number in Directory Assistance and they could probably put you in touch with him. Or search for his email address. By the way, it's a cool book - lots of firsthand encounters over various time periods to the present. I bought it to find out where I could go for a likely sighting in this nearby state. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:50:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:54:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:18:36 -0400 > > One ought to suspect something is up with Larry Warren's > > story when ufos start to appear early in his life. > > Warren says he was a ufo buff in those days and that > > admission alone would seem to compromise the > > objectiveness--and thus, the credibility--of anything he > > has to say about what, if anything, happened at RAF > > Woodbridge/Bentwaters. Now this is a true debunkers claim! "See! You were INTERESTED in them! That means you cannot possibly have had an experience! Q.E.D." Does not follow at all. At Gulf Breeze, Larry and his co-author (blanking out on the name right now) talked about other experiences they had when investigating the case, for instance, they were going back to their lodgings one evening across a field, and started seeing lights and structured crafts. This multiple sighting (up to 25 crafts) lasted for 1 1/2 hours, with lots of spectacular events, culminating in a landing 100-200 (can't remember exactly) yards away from them. Larry started walking towards it and his companion, overwhelmed by this time, begged him not to go. This man has had experiences, indeed - lucky devil. In his talk, he mentioned, almost in passing, that he had been abducted prior to the Rendlesham Forest occurrence (did not state when in his life - that may be in the book), and that he had undergone hypnotic regresion to recover the memories. He didn't really want to get into it in the talk, it seemed, just stated that they were the typical classic experiences that Whitly Strieber had written about, with medical procedures, etc. I'm not an investigator, though I respect all dedicated investigators highly. It seems to be thankless work at times, especially when one looks upon it as a mission to prove the existence of the visitors to a close-minded audience. When I evaluate what I read and hear, I have only my native discrimination and intuition to depend on. But if I listened to investigators across the board in making up my mind about a particular case, I'd never have confidence in anything! For all the opinions that shore up the credibility of a particular person or a particular case, there seem to be an equal number of dissenting opinions. E.g., Whitley is totally credible/he's a fraud; Dr. Greer is a hero/he's a plutocratically controlled automaton; Stanton Friedman is a sound investigator/he's a disinformation agent; etc., etc. As a person gripped by the import of the Vast Subject, I have to take it all in, weigh the arguments, and synthesize my working beliefs to the best of my ability within this welter of confusion. At this point in my learning, I have consciously decided to evaluate each person and each case on the basis of "Assume that it is true - what are the conclusions and implications of this experience/sighting/encounter?" I do not ignore counter-arguments, but on the other hand I'm not upset at the notion that any individual case/person I learn about may be hoaxed/not credible - that possibility or fact does not change my overall view - they are here and we have to assiimilate that and deal with them. The groundswell of evidence is raising the level of the water - even if some mass of evidence is proved false and removed, the water is still rising! Here's what I wish - that investigators would cooperate more and share their best cases, that the community would not buy into the public/government attitudes, leading to discrediting each other so heatedly, that the community would de-emphasize proof of visitor existence to the public and pool knowledge to go to the next level - which groups are here, why are they here, who means us well, what can we do to contact and work with them, what are the implications for the earth? Conceptually, all that's necessary to shift focus is to collectively assume "they're heeere!" - that all that smoke implies fire, even if many individual cases taken one by one may have failures of evidence. I suppose my wish amounts to: "Let's focus on deepening our knowledge instead of broadening it." AM soundoff - apologies in advance if you're offended. [Melanie Mecca]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:25:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:16:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' > It seems that what with the collapse of all the big > American cases, attention is now turning elsewhere. Mark...would you care to elaborate? This "collapse" is news to me..... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:39:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:39:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Review - 'Spaceships of the Pleiades...' A brief question for Kal Korff...and I apologize for deleting the message of his I'm responding to! Kal, you said Wendelle Stevens and Kevin Randle were both "career military officers." Stevens doesn't concern me for the moment. But would you tell me your source for the information on Randle? Very curious, Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Apr 97 09:56:46 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:17:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Relea >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 12:02:11 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Sorry to disappoint you lads but you've been pre-empted by >hundreds of psychotherapists who are covert members of the >Hindsight Institute (which is so secret not even it's members >know where or what it is). Their agenda is to prepare this >planet for invasion but I've forgotten precisely when. They >create social confusion through the doctrines of 'repressed >memory' and 'false memory'. Bob, Actually, there is a division of the Nearsight Institute knows as the Hindsight Project. However, to belong you must be able to find your own behind with both hands, and we found no ufologists who could qualify, and had to put the project on hold as a result. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Book: 'The Gods Have Landed' - Info? From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 11:54:57 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:26:38 -0400 Subject: Book: 'The Gods Have Landed' - Info? Anyone here have anything to say one way or the other about a book called 'The Gods Have Landed: New Religions From Other Worlds', edited by James Lewis and published by S.U.N.Y. (State University of New York?) in 1994? Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Dreams Word, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ________ ^ ^ 33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Emdreams, CNI News, Contact ^ ^ ^ __--- ---_ Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Forum, _PEER_ Perspectives, ^ ^ - _ \ 02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ the Nausicaa list, Tadream, ^ ^ | /_/ \ | (617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ & Hong Kong Film Connection ^ ^_- __/_// __ |/ BITNET: ar402004@brownvm ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ - (|/ '()` <()/ ^ INTERNET: sfeldman@warren.med.harvard.edu ^ ^ ^ ^ \_ O .> | ^ HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@brownvm ^ /--_/ -__ -- / ^ <*> Address for subscribing: listserv@brownvm <*> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- ^ ^
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Colonel Roswell? From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 22:03:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:49:05 -0400 Subject: Colonel Roswell? I found the following item on Usenet: 25. April 1997 00.09.24 alt.alien.research Item Subject: New Roswell Info To: alt.alien.research As of Sunday April 20,1997 " LIVE " on the Cosmic Connection Television Show. Col. Roswell (not his real name) has come forth and told of the two individuals involved in testing material of the crash in 47. Pappy Henderson and the other member of a team of material witnesses who have been testing and documenting their research. The Colonel spoke on the Cosmic Connection. That a one Kevin Randle: Author of" The Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell" would be the first to recieve any information and material pertaining to The Roswell Crash. The Colonel wishes to remain low key as to his identity. As he does not care about celebrity. He has appeared on the Cosmic Connection Program 3 x now and these shows are being sought after as the truth in UFO reporting. cosmicc@teleport.com To be contacted if further information or the ordering of tapes of past Col. Roswell interviews are needed as this is breaking news about the 47 crash. Kevin, what's the story? Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:37:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:55:16 -0400 Subject: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up Hello List. Well, here's a revelation!!! Today, via 'Snailmail', I received an interesting letter from a gentleman who has looked at my reports in very _great_ detail apparently. He has figured that the sightings have perfectly conventional explanations, due to the fact of the location of all the activity. So, thank goodness, I can now rest assured that there is nothing to concern ourselves about. It turns out that the objects that we thought were 'Orbs', were, _in_fact_, aircraft that had appeared as nebulous shapes and colours, due to atmospheric effects. Also, the 'Light Pillar' is actually a mirage-type affair, which is totally believable. Anyway, I never _did_ say that these were anything otherworldly, just 'Unknowns', or 'Unconventionals'. _Right_?? So, back to my normal life at last. Iguanas, birds, cats, cars, crop circles, pub lunches....and on and on. Happy days!!!!!!!JJ -- "BEAM ME UP ! ! !" ^ ^ O O ( " ) \ ! / \ / "There's nothing happening down here! Well...not much! Actually....LOTS, sometimes!!!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Korff's Blowup on p. 198 From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:43:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Blowup on p. 198 > From: TotlResrch@aol.com > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:10:14 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Korff Challenges Deardorff! (Hey, that Rhymes!) > To: updates@globalserve.net > >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:39:06 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen Jansen] > >The thing to notice in Korff's Fig. 66 (a blowup of a portion of > >his Fig. 65) is the thin, roughly horizontal line above the > >beamship that looks like a scratch or brush mark, to which his > >4 arrows point. He claims it is a supportive device (for a > >model UFO). However, the brush mark has a slight curve to it > >-- it is bowed upwards. Anyone who has hung clothes from a > >clothesline knows that only a slight weight suspended from the > >line will cause that line to bow downwards, not upwards. Korff's reply was lengthy, but did not address the issue. The line in his photo blowup that he wants to call a model support line bows upwards, now downwards. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 25 Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:12:56 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:12:54 -0400 Subject: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists Just a note: I will not be responding to email in any regular fashion starting today. If you have been watching the news, then you know why. In short, it *is* as bad as it looks. If you want more info, check out the U of M Flood Info page at: www.umanitoba.ca/news/flood97/ There are several WebCams available for views of the situation. UFOs are far from everyone's minds, although I received a report from rural Manitoba *yesterday*! Some volunteers from the UFO group here are coming to my home to help move all my UFO files and book collection to higher ground. I was sandbagging some homes one block away from us last night. It's - er - interesting, to say the least. The U of M will be trying to maintain services and operations as long as possible. My own office is on an upper floor, but who knows if phone/computer/electrical/sewer service will be affected. Hopefully (!) talk to you soon. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 SUFOIT/PARA-4 Office burns down! From: Sufoit1@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:33:38 -0400 Subject: SUFOIT/PARA-4 Office burns down! The Grand Forks, ND SUFOIT/PARA-4 office has burnt down! The last information that I have heard on this is that the fire that started out there, began in our office. I am checking up on this, if the fire started there then I believe it may be under suspicious circumstances. I will let you know as we find out more, it may just be a sad event that is purely coincedental as it was not the only building to burn, or it could be......? Barry McDonald International Director SUFOIT/PARA-4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 A simple review of the Billy Meier claims From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:52:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:36:00 -0400 Subject: A simple review of the Billy Meier claims > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:15:07 -0400 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: A simple review of the Billy Meier claims > Before we get into a really silly argument about Billy Meier, let me > just expound on a few of the more obvious things that should act as > 'indicators' as to why this case is the biggest joke of them all: > 1. Billy Meier, out of all people on this planet is chosen by benevolent > space brothers to represent human-kind. > 2. He is taken into their ships, which look suprisingly like models and > is flown to Venus. He takes pictures of God's Eye, (Imagine what god's > big toe would look like!) A caveman walking around, dinosaurs, (On > another planet of course!) and Apollo missions. > 3. He is given the last testiment of Jesus Christ(Who was a Pleidian!) > which were translated into several versions. By the way, Jesus was born > on the same day as Billy Meier: Febuary 3rd! > 4. The aliens look suprisingly like human beings from the 70's! > 5. The '4th state of pleidian metal' is actually silver solder! You too > can own alien metal! > 6. pp. 216-17 of Kal Korff's book, "Spaceships of the Pleiades". I don't > need to elaborate. This is hardly a ship that could travel down the > street, let alone out of our atmosphere. > Stuff like this is what gives serious UFO research a bad name. After all > of this, if Meier's story still sounds credible to anybody, it is > because they want to believe him. Plus, Billy just doesn't offer us the > secrets of our world and others, he offers it for a hefty price! Well, > Regards, > Scott K. Hale Hear, hear Scott. Well spoken. The only thing I found wrong with your statements was a little error in your first sentence. "Before we get into a real silly argument about Billy Meier......" It seems the argument concerning Meier has been going on ad nauseum for weeks. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 Rendlesham From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:16:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:38:54 -0400 Subject: Rendlesham Although Lieutenant-Colonel Halt wasn't a witness to the first night's events, his official report begins: "1. Early in the morning of 27 Dec 80 (approximately 0300L), two USAF security police patrolmen saw unusual lights outside the back gate at RAF Woodbridge. Thinking an aircraft might have crashed or been force down, they call for permission to go outside the gate to investigate. The on-duty flight chief responded and allowed three patrolmen to proceed on foot.The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest.The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light. The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering or on legs. As the patrolmen approached the object, it manoeuvred through the trees and disappeared. At this time the animals on a nearby farm went into a frenzy. The object was briefly sighted approximately an hour later near the back gate". This clearly dates the first incident as occurring on the morning of the 27th. He has clarified, "I personally knew the individuals that had reported and I knew they were very credible people. I was sure something had happened, there was obviously something. I certainly wasn't convinced it was a UFO but I didn't know what it was". In case anything should occur the following night, light-alls were rigged in the forest. Halt was interrupted at a Christmas dinner and recalled, "The Duty Flight Lieutenant came in and he was quite shaken and insisted upon speaking to myself and the base commander about a matter of utmost urgency. He said, "it's back" and I said, "what's back" and he said, "the UFO is back". I assembled a small team of experts and we set off in the forest, ready to debunk it"". He has confirmed elsewhere that the Duty Flight Lieutenant was Lieutenant Bruce Englund. The "following night", has sometimes been taken to mean the 28th, however, continuing his report, what Halt actually says is: "2. The next day, three depressions 1 1/2" deep and 7" in diameter were found where the object had been sighted on the ground. The following night (29 Dec 80) the area was checked for radiation. Beta/Gamma readings of 0.1 milliroentgens were recorded with peak reading in the three depressions and near the center of the triangle formed by the depressions. A nearby tree had moderate (.05-.07) readings on the side of the tree toward the depressions. 3. Later in the night a red sun-like light was seen through the tree. It moved about and pulsed. At one point it appeared to throw off glowing particles and then broke into five separate white objects and then disappeared. Immediately thereafter, three star-like objects were noticed in the sky. Two objects to the north and one to the south, all of which were about 10 degrees off the horizon. The objects moved rapidly in sharp angular movements and displayed red, green and blue lights. The objects to the north appeared to be elliptical through an 8-12 power lens. They then turned to full circles. The objects to the north remained in the sky for an hour or more. The object to the south was visible for two or three hours and beamed down a stream of light from time to time. Numerous individuals, including the undersigned, witnessed the activities in paragraphs 2 and 3". This seems to confirm that nothing of note happened on the 28th and it was the following night, the 29th as stated, when the second incident occurred. >From her own research, Jenny Randles believes the first incident occurred at around 2.00 a.m. on 26 December and that Halt has this wrong. Overall, it is somewhat muddled. According to the case report in the follow-up book to the "Strange But True?" TV series, of which Jenny was co-author, the local Suffolk police confirmed they logged a call concerning the first incident at 4.11 a.m. on 26 December 1980. It's not made clear exactly what this call related to. However, in Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret", he mentions that: "Chuck de Caro of Cable News Network was shown the logbook at Woodbridge Police Station which shows that on the night of 25/26 December, Airman Armald from the Woodbridge base law enforcement desk called the Woodbridge police concerning "lights in the woods". On the morning of 26 December, the police apparently returned to the site and were shown "landing marks" by air force personnel, who told them how an object had landed there". Consequently, if the claims about the police records are accurate, it looks like the initial incident took place during the early morning of Friday 26th December, 1980. Further support for this conclusion appears to come from Halt himself. In July of 1994, he was in the UK to record an interview for the "Strange But True?" documentary. The program was broadcast during December 1994 and included interviews with principal witnesses from the first night's events, Airman John Burroughs and Sergeant Jim Penniston. Whilst in the UK, on 31 July 1994, Halt gave a lecture at a venue in Leeds, England. The January/February 1995 issue of UFO Magazine (UK) had a feature article on the Rendlesham Forest case and a transcript of Halt's lecture at Leeds. Halt had reportedly claimed: "Just after Christmas, about 5:30 a.m., 26 December 1980, I walked into police headquarters [on the base] and the Desk Sergeant started to laugh. He said a couple of guys had been out chasing UFOs. Nothing, however, was in the blotter [log book]. I told him to put it in". This now supports the contention that the first incident occurred during the early morning of December 26th. He continued, "When our base commander came in, we both chuckled. Neither of us believed in UFOs, but we decided to look into it. Before we had the chance, two nights later, the Duty Flight Commander for the security police unit rushed in to a belated Christmas party, white as a sheet. "The UFO is back", he said". If Halt was initially mistaken about the date of the first incident, it's conceivable that he is also in error when he claims that the second occurrence took place two nights later and not the following night. It seems surprising there would be confusion over the exact dates of such significant events. As I understand that full details should have been documented in both the Law Enforcement and Security Police logs, the "jotters", has that evidence ever been obtained? I recently received some mail which would certainly qualify as unexpected. Headed "Rendlesham", it read: "You have most of the facts correct, I was there, I saw the object. It did happen, if you need more info, let me know, for the most part you have the main details. [...] I am glad to finally see it got out. I had no idea that it had. They told us to be quiet". The mail wasn't anonymous and the writer confirmed their position and period of service at RAF Bentwaters. I've since corresponded with him and have spoken to him at length on the telephone. Incredible as it may seem, it's claimed that it was only a few weeks ago, when he saw a documentary about the case on American TV, that he realised the story was public knowledge and this was the first time in over 16 years he's spoken openly about his involvement. The documentary shown was apparently a UK production and if anyone knows what it might have been, I would be interested. It could have been the "Strange But True?" program. Following a search on the web for any further material, the writer had found some information on the case, which most fortuitously included my e-mail address. Although he's possibly now given most of the facts recalled, he doesn't wish to be identified at the moment. Given time, for various reasons, that's likely to change. It's not necessary just now, what's important is the detail he has supplied, some of which is still being researched. Rather than to refer to "the apparent witness", lets call him "Tom". Having spoken about the case in great detail with Tom, there's every reason to trust his authenticity and no reason whatsoever to doubt his sincerity. He has an obvious knowledge of the personnel involved, the base and the Suffolk area. He appears to have documentary proof of his service at RAF Bentwaters and also points out that there are many people who can verify this, particularly Burrows and Penniston, whom it seems he knew well. He doesn't have a sensational story to tell, but his account does cement a lot of the detail already known and he has added some potentially significant information. Going back to the question of the dates, Tom's not certain of this and was only involved with the first incident. However, he does have a recollection of who was assigned to each "flight" - the work shifts - and when the flights changed over. >From this, and based on who was involved in the incidents, it looks like the second event, this time involving Lieutenant-Colonel Halt, could have taken place the night after the first incident and not two nights later as Halt asserts. Tom claims, "I worked with Burroughs and Penniston. What they said was true. As a matter of fact, the following statements are true and can be verified by many people. The acting squadron was the 81st. SPS and "B" flight was the acting security force on duty. Burroughs and Penniston were on "B" flight. "A" flight was the day flight, daytime only". SPS was the Security Police Squadron. A number of personnel on "B" flight have been named by Tom and their roles clarified. Tom adds, "shift change was from 2300 hrs till 0700 hrs". As standard, the following night's shift was "C" flight. He continues, "A lot of people staked the place out on the second night. The crew on duty then was "C" flight, "B" flight had just finished its last midnight shift for the cycle". To ensure there was no misunderstanding, I put to Tom: "I've gone back over my case records and the personnel who were present with Lt. Col. Halt on the night of the second known incident, when the tape was made, were apparently: Major Malcolm Zickler (or Ziegler) - Chief of Base Security Sergeant Ball - Flight Chief Sergeant Adrian Bustinza - Security Police Acting Commander, RAF Woodbridge Lieutenant Bruce Englund - Duty Flight Lieutenant and Bustinza's Acting Commander Sergeant Nevells - a non-commissioned officer assigned to the Disaster Preparedness Operations Anything obviously wrong with this?" He confirmed, "All of the names you mentioned are bona fide members of the 81st Security Police Squadron. I recognized them all. However, they are members of "C" flight". "Major Zigler was the acting Chief of Security Police". He has also highlighted the importance of the "desk jotters" and has given some detailed information about them which could prove useful. The UFO Magazine feature also includes an article about Halt's lecture and on the subject of the first incident, reports, "A patrolmen was sent to the area to investigate. Three officers set off on foot, "to go to the scene of a possible crash", Halt said. As the men approached the forest, their radios suddenly faltered. "Unusual radio interference", was the wording used". On that first night, Tom was not involved with events in the forest, but was part of the team asked to respond when Burroughs and Penniston went missing. According to Tom, the base had an Alarm Response Team (ART) and a Security Response Team (SRT). Also, codes in use at that time and which have now been declassified were: "Helping Hand" - a potentially hostile threat "Covered Wagon" - a confirmed hostile threat. If the first alert status was unresolved after 30 minutes, it automatically became a confirmed, hostile threat. He recalls, "It was a bitterly cold night and clear. Radio communications were disrupted on and off due to some type of atmospheric disturbance. The radios weren't working at all that night. There were 6 channels, called "Queen", "Queen 1", "King 1" and so on. One channel was reserved for Law Enforcement, one for RAF Bentwaters and the rest were open. We switched channels all night". "The person on the post should have been Burroughs, but he was missing, the weapons were missing and the phone was off the hook. This was around 2:00 a.m. We were carrying weapons and were told to hold our position". Tom has given details of other personnel involved at this stage. He continues, "I could clearly see the lights from the gate, just outside the back gate (East gate). It was next to the road. They were intermittent lights, very bright, 15-20 feet above the ground. They were pulsating and from what I recall there were 3 lights, red green and blue". He couldn't see what the stationary lights might be attached to. The UFO Magazine article also notes, "One puzzling event which has mystified Colonel Halt ever since that "fateful week", concerns the arrival of an unscheduled C141 Galaxy transporter just hours after the encounter. He confirmed he knew nothing about its purpose, or why a group of "special individuals" departed the aircraft and headed immediately out to the East Gate and into the forest". "Halt did state in a TV interview in 1994 that there were "a number" of unannounced flights into and out of the base shortly after the event, and the flights originated from Washington and brought in specialist teams". Moving ahead to the following morning, Tom states, "Shift change in the morney for "B" flight was extremely late. "A" Flight relieved us at 9:30 am, very late. When we went out the East gate back to Bentwaters, leaving Woodbridge, there were many people, including numerous people in typical lab coats making an analysis of the area. You could see out the vehicle to the right side, that there were many people examining the area, searching, looking for something. Some of these people were in white overcoats, that's why I say that they looked like typical techs in lab coats. They were searching the area in front of the forest". Could these perhaps be the "special individuals" that Halt apparently spoke of and who arrived so rapidly on the scene. Tom also claims that, "The "few branches" that were broken off were not a few, it was a lot, a huge area had been cleared. There were trees missing". He never found out if this was due to damage caused by an object in the forest, or if the area in the forest had been cleared for some reason. There's some interesting information in Halt's 1994 lecture and I'll try and find some time to transcribe it. As for Larry Warren's claims, there are also considerable reservations from Jenny Randles, Timothy Good, Dot Street (one of the original investigators) and many others who know the case history well. The UFO Magazine feature notes, "Halt is adamant that Warren "was not there" and "did not participate". During his lecture in Leeds, the Colonel proclaimed, "Charlatans, there are lots of them out there! Lots of disinformation at what really happened at Bentwaters"". Tom wasn't familiar with Larry Warren and wondered if this was a "Larry Holly", whom he might recall. When I gave Tom the gist of Warren's claims, he couldn't support any of the story and didn't wish to be associated with it. Whatever truly happened at Rendlesham forest and exactly when, I'm hopeful some of the basic facts, at least, can maybe still be clarified further. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 BWW Media Alert 970425 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:48:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:54:25 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970425 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) April 25, 1997 Not a hot week. THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL has a bug in its newer version website: you can't look at the next month's schedule. That means I don't have full info for TDC or THE LEARNING CHANNEL for Thursday and Friday. I've seen a couple of different versions of Roswell Alien toys this week, but don't have the details. I've seen them at TOYS R US and KAY-BEE. Oh, Michael Lindemann is at the Whole Life Expo (along with tons of other people) this weekend in San Francisco. Don't have details, sorry...Michael, if you want to run this since you don't have Media Watch this week, that's okay. Oh, one more note: KTVU Channel 2 in Oakland, California, is doing a special Roswell thing tonight (Friday) ...they have some "prime witness" under hypnosis who is supposed to reveal amazing things. It runs at 10:00 PM. Okay, let's get into it! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. I didn't find much this week. THE ARRIVAL, a ufo/conspiracy movie which got good reviews, but which I found pretty moronic (even if they did have a character named "Calvin"...gee, do you think? Nah, he was probably named after one of my more famous relatives who was a SETI guy, sort of) runs on HBO several times...Saturday at 8:30 PM, Sunday at 4:05 AM, Tues at 9:00 AM and 8:00 PM. Although flawed, I thought THE ADVENTURES OF BUCKAROO BANZAI was a much better film dealing with interactions with aliens (Cinemax runs it Thursday at 3:00 PM). Disney has BABY...SECRET OF THE LOST LEGEND, a film based on the stories of mokele-mbembe, a possibly surviving sauropod dinosaur in Africa. It runs Tuesday at 3:00 PM, and Wednesday at 3:05 AM. THE MOVIE CHANNEL runs PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE on Wed at 7:20 AM. In the UFO sitcom department, the syndicated CHARLES IN CHARGE has an episode called U.F.OH NO! SAVED BY THE BELL may be on your cable...if so, Thursday's rerun episode is CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE NERD KIND, and has a fake alien photo for a tabloid as its theme. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. The GREAT MID ATLANTIC 50th ANNIVERSARY UFO SYMPOSIUM: Bethesda Ramada Inn; Saturday, May 3, 9 AM start; Investigator's workshop, Stan Friedman, Linda Howe, Bruce Maccabee, others; $35; Call 301-349-2434 for information. ONLINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, Alan Alford, author* of GODS OF THE NEW MILLENIUM. Could it be that the ancient "gods" were flesh and blood? And they are coming back? GASP! >From: SHORT_AND_SASSY@prodigy.com (MRS LOUISE A LOWRY) >Starting On Monday April 21, I will open the Chat room on IRC. >PRODIGY.NET under the banner of lifesty.weirdworld, this room will be >always opened but will be hosted by myself on every Monday. Times will >be as followed-usually 9PM but every 3rd Monday it will be an hour later >at 10PM EDT. My Name will be SHORTnSASSY. I look forward to seeing some >of my friends from the regular UFO Chat room there. >Discussions will range from - UFOs - Disappearances - Prophecies >- Anomalies - Ghosts - Astronomical Oddities - Spectral Incursions - >Monsters - Aliens - Abductions - Unearthly Bounds - Angels - OBE-MIB's - >Cover Ups - Military Intervention MSN is now supposedly running a "show" on UFOs called PROJECT WATCHFIRE. No details available. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. You can listen to it on your computer, as well as on many radio stations: go to http://www.endoftheline.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? (They have now provided me with program summaries, which I greatly appreciate!) --week of 4/21, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: a mother's dream saves her baby from a terrible accident; a grandmother returns from the grave to give a new mother advice about her infant; a woman dreams her house is on fire. She calls to find that it is and is able to warn her family; a grandmother and a guardian angel visit a young girl in order to explain the grandmother's death; John sees a misty apparition float above his bed at the same moment his mother passes away; a ghost appearing in a French maid's costume warns three college roommates that their house is on fire. --week of 4/28, Robert Culp hosts an in depth look at several unexplained, miraculous events. Bob Evans and Michele Wolford present these cases: after he wanders away from his home, a five year old boy is looked after by two angels; seconds after a young boy cuts his hand, a ghostly nurse comes to his rescue; a guardian angel saves two young brothers from a would be gang attack; a recently deceased man visits a young girl several times before leaving for the other world; an angel helps a woman remain calm as she administers CPR to her young daughter; two young girls are trapped in a refrigerator when an unknown presence opens the door and frees them. GREAT DRIVES (well, PBS works about the same way as if it is syndicated...you have to find the time and the station): HIGHWAY 93 (looking for UFOs with Graham Greene) PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 4/14 (#118, new episode), THE FOG: a fog blankets a prison when a special inmate arrives; HOUSE ON GARDEN STREET (poltergeist bugs arguing newlyweds) --week of 4/21 (#119, new episode), SECOND SIGHT (does a transplant also create a psychic link to the donor?); CHOCOLATE SOLDIER (charismatic cult leader...how timely) Saturday, April 26 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. This week, the host, Ken Dashow, is not available at Saturday, so these will be pre-recorded for everybody. Gee, they could have asked me to guest host ;) 5:00 PM, James Finn Garner, author of APOCALYPSE WOW!*, a funny look at the coming millenium; 5:30 PM, Belleruth Naparstek, author of YOUR SIXTH SENSE*; 6:00 PM, Dr. Richard Haines talking about UFO sightings by pilots...sober stuff; 6:30 PM, Harlan Ellison, irascible author, iconoclastic commentator, on anything he dang well feels like (hey, you try and stop him...:) ); 7:00 PM, repeat from March 22nd with oobe (pronounced "oooooo-bee"...short for out-of-body-experience) guy on astral travelling. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS FOR THE GODS (giant pictograms, i.e. Nazca) Sunday, April 27 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Brad Steiger, author of a gazillion books* on the paranormal...they'll probably touch on the fact that (what eventually became) the Heaven's Gate group contacted him to write their story (I think back when they were called The Two, in about 1975) (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: THE COMING ENERGY REVOLUTION with Jeane Manning. Brenda Roberts produces. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058), THE WATCHERS (UFOS, but not Ray Fowler...Gulf Breeze); LIFE BEFORE LIFE! (hey, when did they start publishing that, anyway? Oh, sort of "preincarnation"); GHOSTS OF CHILLINGHAM CASTLE; LAB OF CONSCIOUSNESS (no, not labrador...laboratory! Alex Heindl and Dr. Radin and the Consciousness Research Lab) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CRACKING CODES: WRITINGS AND RIDDLES (wait a minute...is this one about Piri Reis? I'm confused) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058) THE WATCHERS (UFOS, but not Ray Fowler...Gulf Breeze); LIFE BEFORE LIFE! (hey, when did they start publishing that, anyway? Oh, sort of "preincarnation"); GHOSTS OF CHILLINGHAM CASTLE; LAB OF CONSCIOUSNESS (no, not labrador...laboratory! Alex Heindl and Dr. Radin and the Consciousness Research Lab) Monday, April 28 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: GEORGIO BONGIOVANNNI AND ETS (this guy is a stigmatic and a UFO experiencer...talk about you hyphenates!) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#24): INDIAN GHOST STORY (amerind carvings); CALICO DIG (this is a disputed site in California that supposedly shows the existence of really ancient humans in North America); RAILROAD SPIRITS (ghosts in Texas) Tuesday, April 29 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MEN IN BLACK (yes, according to Dan Aykroyd, this is where the Blues Brothers got their outfits...)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#25): WEREWOLF; CHESSIE (sea monster that frequents Chesapeake Bay); INDIAN BURIAL GROUNDS Wednesday, April 30 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: CHUPACABRA HUNT (who's hunting whom?) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#26): TWINS (psychic links?); SAN ANTONIO SPIRITS (no, not tequila and cerveza...ghosts); SNAKE DANCING 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE MAJESTIC 12 DOCUMENTS (do they prove that a spaceship was recovered at Roswell, New Mexico?); SAO PAOLO HAUNTING (ghosts in a skyscraper in Brazil); VANISHED! (psychic Kathlyn Rhea tries to find a missing person); SECRETS OF THE SPHYNX; NEW MEXICO CATTLE MUTILATIONS! 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE MAJESTIC 12 DOCUMENTS (do they prove that a spaceship was recovered at Roswell, New Mexico?); SAO PAOLO HAUNTING (ghosts in a skyscraper in Brazil); VANISHED! (psychic Kathlyn Rhea tries to find a missing person); SECRETS OF THE SPHYNX; NEW MEXICO CATTLE MUTILATIONS! Thursday, May 1 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: weirdness in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#27): ROADSIDE MIRACLE; UFO ENCOUNTERS; BLACK DAHLIA (this was a really gruesome "Hollywood" murder case...the victim was so dismembered, the Mom and kid who first found her didn't think she was real) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CURSES AND OMENS Friday, April 25 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: the death of Kurt Cobain(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#28): SPORTING CHANCE (extraordinary performances); PENDLE WITCHES (the "Salem" of England); HYPNOTISM 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. Search for other documents from or mentioning: bufocalvin |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 Re. New Mars Face? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:03:33 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:12:03 -0400 Subject: Re. New Mars Face? I checked out "Risker's" "BAR" Mars face and wasn't particularly impressed. It doesn't seem (at least at the resolution offered at their website) to share the intriguing symmetry of the famous Cydonia face, even though there is a vague facial resemblance. However, it may be worth looking into as the "BAR" face is located right next to the "Inca City" formation. As in the case of the Cydonia face's proximity with the "City" and "D&M Pyramid," the presence of two anomalous landforms in such close relation reinforces the sense of mystery. In my opinion, the "new" Mars face is almost certainly natural, but it would be foolish to dismiss it given only the shabby photographic data at hand. A more convincing face-like landform can be found in an online edition of the "McDaniel Report." The article wonders if the landform in question is an "uncompleted" face (the Cydonia face isn't that far away, and both share the same tilt). It doesn't take much imagination to see McDaniel's "proto-face" as a shallow "foundation" for the much more elaborate geomorph at Cydonia. Perhaps the hypothetical builders ran into trouble of some sort and had to relocate. My opinion, after studying the Viking imagery, is that the now-infamous Martian "structures" were built using already existing landforms and "modifying" them. In this sense, ETI critics who proclaim that the Cydonia face is "merely a mesa" are partially correct. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 Eduard "Billy" Meier on Kal K. Korff From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:01:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:35:27 -0400 Subject: Eduard "Billy" Meier on Kal K. Korff This was found on Meier's FIGU site located at:=20 http://web.eunet.ch/figu/FIGUHP63.HTM Billy Meier's comments regarding Kal. K. Korff's book, "Spaceships of the Pleiades". I hardly doubt any of this will change any long established views on either side, Pro or Con..but I feel it's important to get BOTH=20 sides of the argument documented on the List seeing as how=20 we've gone into the Meier case quite a bit in the last few weeks. As always, I don't make up this stuff, nor write it, just find it and post it. You are welcome to debate the article, validate or refute,=20 have a hissy fit or just enjoy the inevitable fireworks it will no doubt produce. Getcher popcorn ready folks. <g> Don =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Lies and Intrigues by Kal K. Korff=20 Many people have asked about FIGU's opinion of Kal K. Korff and his book=20 Spaceships of the Pleiades (1995, Prometheus Books). Well, frankly, we are= =20 of the opinion that Kal K. Korff is a dirty and cowardly liar. He has=20 written a book that is in line with his cunning and perfidious character. By using extra big types, Kal K. Korff was able to 'stretch' his book up to= =20 439 pages. Acknowledgements alone cover more than 10 pages. It seems that a= =20 thick book shall give an impression of importance and respectability. Essentially, Korff's book is about his trip to Switzerland. Under the=20 assumed name of STEVE THOMAS, and in disguise, he visited the=20 Semjase-Silver-Star-Center, Schmidr=FCti, in Summer 1991. He was accompanied= =20 by Tina Layton. Korff had opportunity to speak to FIGU members on two days= =20 for some hours. He didn't speak a word with Billy Meier.=20 Since nearly all pages of Korff's book contain lies and distortions it is=20 impossible to list them all. It would need the space of another book. A few excerpts from Korff's book shall demonstrate his deceitful and lying= =20 intentions to manipulate and misuse the readers for his bad aims.=20 Some of Korff's claims and distortions are so absurd that a reasonable=20 person can but laugh. Korff's Lie (page 38): "... During one of these alleged time-travel adventures in the past, he=20 [Billy Meier] met with Jesus Christ! ... but he is Jesus Christ= reincarnated!" The truth: Never, not verbally or in writing, did Billy Meier ever claim having met=20 Jesus Christ, or to be his reincarnation. Billy Meier vehemently dissociates= =20 himself from such impertinent claims and rumors by Korff and others. Korff's lie (page 64):=20 "Although we had made it only a few hundred feet onto the property, it was= =20 already obvious that Meier was anything but "poor," contrary to what his=20 proponents would have everyone believe. ... After walking about ten minutes,= =20 Tina and I came across a large brown wooden building with an angled roof off= =20 to our left. As we would later discover, this was a "guest house" ..." The truth: The Semjase-Silver-Star-Center isn't owned by Billy Meier. All FIGU members= =20 are joint owners! Besides, it is only a 3-minute walk from the Restaurant Freihof to the=20 Center's first house. And: we don't have any "guest house". Korff's lie (pages 67-69): "... From where I stood, at the railing which prevented me from straying off= =20 the main gravel roadway, I could see down at the bottom of the hillside what= =20 were the faint remnants of three "UFO landing rings" that had been there=20 since at least June 1980. ... Even though the landing tracks were eleven=20 years old by the time of my visit and were barely visible to the naked eye,= =20 ... Even though my video camera has a 10x zoom lens, the landing-tracks=20 proved to be too far away to observe any meaningful details from the=20 location where I was standing. ... incredibly Gary Kinder [author of LIGHT= =20 YEARS] says he never saw any landing-tracks during the entire five weeks he= =20 spent living at Meier's place! Instead, Kinder claims he only "talked to=20 several people who had seen them and who had photographed them while still= =20 fresh. It is doubtful that Gary Kinder's claim is true, since the three UFO= =20 landing-tracks on Billy Meier's property are directly behind his house and= =20 down the hill in his own back yard! Not only are they easily visible from=20 numerous locations throughout the property, but are in fact impossible to=20 miss most of the time when walking back and forth between the guest house=20 and Billy meier's residence. ..." The truth: Fig. 7 on page 65 'clearly' shows 1) that the meadow where Menara landed her= =20 beamship on June 15, 1980, lies hidden behind bushes and trees; 2) the exact= =20 landing place lies hidden behind a knoll on the hillside and would even be= =20 invisible to the naked eye, if there were no trees to obstruct the view from= =20 the house; 3) The landing tracks - circles of grass pressed counterclockwise= =20 to the ground - "vanished" as soon as the meadow was cut and the cows were= =20 grazing. Conclusion: Either Korff had hallucinations, or he is a damned liar! Concerning Korff's 'drawing' of the "Meier's compound" (Fig. 10 on page 70):= =20 All distances and proportions are incorrect (the landing tracks are much=20 farther away from the house than may be seen on Korff's drawing!). Is Korff= =20 really not capable of producing a correct drawing? Or does he deliberately= =20 create a false picture in order to lead the readers onto a wrong path?! Korff, the "meticulous" investigator (page 73): "... Elisabeth Gruber, the wife of Guido Moosbrugger, ..." The truth: Elisabeth Gruber is married to a Mr.Gruber. Elisabeth Moosbrugger is Guido= =20 Mossbrugger's wife. Korff's fantastic ideas (page 77):=20 "... such as the "fact" that Billy Meier's full, true name is purportedly=20 "Eduard Albert Meier-Zafiriou." However, a subsequent check of the local=20 Canton Police for Meier's region in the town of Hinwil revealed that there= =20 is no record of Billy Meier's "true" name containing the word "Zafiriou" in= =20 it. ..." In a footnote Korff writes: "The name "Zafiriou" has been added by Meier in= =20 recent years as his "mission" has taken on more religious overtones.=20 Zafiriou is supposed to be Meier's name as a prophet, reincarnated from a=20 past life." The truth: In Switzerland it is custom that a husband adds the name of his wife to his= =20 own. The maiden name of Billy Meier's wife was - in Greece - Kalliope=20 Zafiriou. =96 Simple, isn't it?! Korff (pages 78 ff): Falsifications and distortions concerning the Talmud Jmmanuel The truth: Prof. James W. Deardorff answers: <Picture> A refutation of false claims and= =20 distortions by Korff Korff's claim (page 95):=20 "... for among the Meier faithful we encountered (as well as in the=20 pro-Meier literature), we are told repeatedly that Billy Meier is a simple= =20 farmer who is illiterate and has only sixth-grad education. ..." The truth:=20 Billy Meier went to school for 8 years, just like most of the other children= =20 in Switzerland at that time. Yes, he lives now on a farm, but he is no=20 farmer. His chief occupation is writing books: He preserves the vast=20 spiritual knowledge that he himself gathered or has received to the benefit= =20 of the present and future generations. To call Billy Meier an "illiterate" person (read: he has a limited=20 intelligence) was the work/invention of Lee and Brit Elders. For anyone who= =20 understands German and wishes to test Billy's illiteracy it is advisable to= =20 read one of Billy's fairy tales, e.g. <Picture>Die Fr=FChlingsprinzessin. Korff's lies (pages 98/99): Korff planned to take soil samples from "UFO landing tracks" on the Center's= =20 ground and writes in his book: "... The perimeter of the Meier compound=20 turned out to be fairly fortified; weaving my way through its defenses would= =20 prove to be a challenge. There was a high risk of being seen, due to the=20 location of the tracks. For this reason, I decided to return to the compound= =20 at night, dressed in U.S. Army camouflage clothing so that I would minimize= =20 my visibility. As Tina and I drove back up the mountain past the Meier=20 property, we parked our car just on the other side of the hill and walked=20 very carefully back down toward the upper parts of the compound. For safety= =20 reasons, I made sure that Tina stayed behind, close enough to our car so=20 that she could drive away in the event I did not return or was caught. When= =20 I approached one of the electric fences, I calmly slid underneath it, making= =20 sure that I did not touch any of its wires. After clearing the fence, I=20 slipped on down the hill and around to where I saw the remains of one of the= =20 landing-tracks. Removing some plastic bottles from my pouch, I obtained both= =20 control and specimen soil samples. Now that I had my evidence, it was time= =20 to get out of there quickly before I got caught. With the existence of dogs= =20 at Meier's place, a weapons depot for use by his people when the end of=20 civilization nears, security personnel, and the fact that Meier himself=20 often carries a pistol, I am lucky I was not detected. ... I then ran to our= =20 car and Tina and I drove back to the ..." The truth: Everyone who is familiar with the Center grounds will surely laugh if he or= =20 she reads Korff's fantastic story. 1.The only electric and removable fence (with only one wire) was installed= =20 around the pasture area where the cows were grazing. There is no road or=20 path in the Center that is barred by a door or a gate, and there is even a= =20 public path (a "Wanderweg") that leads through our land and near the house.= =20 2.According to Korff's descripition of his "nocturnal visit" he wasn't at=20 the actual "landing site". 3.Questions: What soil samples did Korff obtain= =20 and take with him to America, since he a) wasn't at the correct location and= =20 b) wasn't able find even a single blade of grass left from the landing=20 tracks (from 11 years earlier)?! If we FIGU members can't find non-existing= =20 landing tracks in broad daylight, how will Korff succeed at night? 4.For=20 more than ten years we don't have a dog anymore. 5.And the "weapons depot"?= =20 - OK, we have a depot of pitchforks; and if some group member would claim=20 that we own an atomic bomb and store it in the cellar doubtlessly some=20 idiots would believe this. =96 In Switzerland, most males have to serve in= the=20 Army. They get a gun or a pistol and are allowed to take it at home. After= =20 you quit the Army you may keep the gun as a present.- Yes, we have some guns= =20 and pistols, all legally registered by the authorities. (By the way: There= =20 have been 13 assassination attempts on Billy Meier within the past 21=20 years!) 6.Imagine: On a peaceful summer night, Korff is running to his car,= =20 sweating, in his U.S. Army camouflage clothing.=20 Korff's lie (page 179, Fig. 47 and 48) : He claims "that the background scenery has changed entirely, and that the=20 cloud formations do not resemble those in his first five pictures!" The truth: If Korff would have troubled himself to take a closer look at the two=20 pictures he would have noticed that Billy Meier, after shooting the first=20 photo, made some steps to the left to take the next one He would have=20 noticed that the distant snowfield just at the right border of the fir tree= =20 is exactly identical with that 1.5 cm to the left of the same fir tree in=20 the second photo! And if he would have looked even closer he would have=20 noticed that it's the same cloud formation in both photos, viewed from a=20 different angle since Billy Meier had walked some steps to the left. Korffs claim (page 198, Fig. 66): "My edge enhancement showing a supportive device or what appears to be a=20 suspension line above the "UFO" as it exists in Meier's photo number 199." Question: Why does the "suspension line" curve upward, if a model should be attached= =20 to it?!=20 Korff's claims (pages 201 to 207): "Meier's Hasenb=F6l-Langenberg "UFO" photos show a small object suspended=20 close to the camera, in front of the large tree. The model ..." The truth: Prof. James W. Deardorff answers: <Picture> A refutation of false claims and= =20 distortions by Korff The whole series of the 34 Hasenb=F6l-Langenberg photos is available as a=20 beautiful poster from FIGU.=20 Korff indulges in fantasies (pages 261 to 264): "Billy Meier says that while he was "in outer space for five days" he was=20 fortunate enough to photograph one of God's eyes! When mentioning Meier's=20 claim of having "photographed" God's eye in my 1981 book, the reaction by=20 Meier's supporters (especially Wendelle Stevens) was most peculiar. They=20 denied not only that Meier had ever said such a thing, they also ignored the= =20 fact that I had received copies of these actual photos from Colman=20 VonKeviczky, who had received them from Hans Jacob." The truth: On his 5-day journey through the universe Billy Meier had photographed -=20 among other objects - the Ring Nebula in the constellation of Lyra. The=20 peculiar thing about this ring nebula is that its man-made. A self-appointed= =20 "god", in his megalomania, destroyed a solar system - as a symbol of his=20 power. That's the reason why this nebula is called JHWHMATA (=3D the eye of= =20 god) by the Pleiadians/Plejarans. If Korff would have studied the Meier=20 literature as thoroughly as he is boasting on page 137 of his book, he would= =20 have read the facts in the Contact Notes. As evidence of the "high intelligence" and "serious doggedness" of certain= =20 Meier enemies we will present a last example to the readers: Guido Moosbrugger, in his book "... und sie fliegen doch!", refers to=20 VonKeviczky (director of ICUFON USA) and Korff on page 267/268 and quotes: "... when asked why he hadn't photographed both of God's eyes, amazingly he= =20 (Billy Meier) answered that this had not been possible since his (God's)=20 other eye had winked toward his Pleiadian companion Semjase." Commentary by Walter H. Andrus, Jr., International Director, Mutual UFO=20 Network, Inc. (MUFON) on the back cover of Korff's book: "Kal Korff must be= =20 congratulated for his determination and persistence in seeking the truth.= ..." Dear readers, now it's up to you whether - and where - you want to search=20 for the truth! P.S. - Good reading: Gary Kinder's Light Years. FIGU ** end article **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 26 Deardorff - Refutation on Korff's distortions From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:15:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:41:11 -0400 Subject: Deardorff - Refutation on Korff's distortions This article was found at: http://web.eunet.ch/figu/FIGUHP68.HTM I hardly doubt any of this will change any long established views on either side, Pro or Con..but I feel it's important to get BOTH=20 sides of the argument documented on the List seeing as how=20 we've gone into the Meier case quite a bit in the last few weeks. As always, I don't make up this stuff, nor write it, just find it and post it. You are welcome to debate the article, validate or refute,=20 have a hissy fit or just enjoy the inevitable fireworks it will no doubt produce. Getcher popcorn ready folks. <g> Don =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A REFUTATION OF FALSE CLAIMS AND DISTORTIONS BY KORFF=20 James W. Deardorff, Research Professor Emeritus, Oregon State University=20 USA, May, 1996 In his book, Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story, Kal K. Korff= =20 makes masses of claims against the reality of Eduard Meier's contact=20 experiences. Thus the reader who is unfamiliar with the research by Wendelle= =20 Stevens, Lee & Brit Elders, Jim Dilettoso and Gary Kinder on the Meier case,= =20 and unfamiliar with Korff's background, may mistakenly think Korff's claims= =20 are valid simply due to their sheer number. Since it requires several times= =20 the space to clearly refute a false or misleading claim as it does to make= =20 it, I can only present a sampling of them here, short of writing a book.=20 This sampling mostly involves the document called the Talmud of Jmmanuel=20 (TJ). Towards the end of this paper I will also examine Korff's claims=20 against an important series of 34 UFO photographs in Meier's collection. The Talmud of Jmmanuel=20 In his book, Korff spends 6 or 7 pages trying to debunk the TJ, which was=20 discovered by a priest and Meier near Jerusalem in 1963 in the form of=20 ancient Aramaic scrolls encased in resin. The existent TJ appears from my=20 own analysis to be a translation of the original writing from which the=20 Gospel of Matthew was derived. The TJ is extremely heretical for=20 Christianity, however, indicating that Jmmanuel, alias Jesus, survived the= =20 crucifixion and later traveled/taught much in Anatolia and on eastward to=20 northern India and the Kashmir region. Hence it is easy to understand the=20 intense motivation some persons would have to discredit it and Meier at any= =20 cost. I've chosen this topic to sample in detail, without skipping any=20 ostensibly relevant charges made by Korff on it, since my own book,=20 Celestial Teachings (CT), investigates the same document. CT explores the=20 matter in depth and finds some 200 reasons why the TJ appears to have been= =20 the source for the Gospel of Matthew rather than being any hoax based upon= =20 that gospel. Both the TJ and CT are available from Wild Flower Press, P.0.= =20 Box 726, Newberg, OR 97132, USA. On p. 36 Korff says that "Billy Meier himself wrote a book titled the Talmud= =20 Immanuel which was released in the United States by Wild Flower Press." This= =20 is not correct, however, since Meier was its co-discoverer, custodian of the= =20 translations and editor, not its author. Further, the TJ's correct spelling is Talmud of Jmmanuel, where the reason= =20 why the TJ spells "lmmanuel" beginning with a "J" and not an "I" is=20 explained by Meier in the TJ's introductory pages. On the same page Korff says that I became "a believer and enthusiastic=20 supporter of Meier's messianic claims." I would like to correct any=20 misimpression this may give that I support Meier as being, or trying to be,= =20 any sort of savior figure or deliverer =96 a messiah of that sort. If he is= in=20 any sense an "anointed one," it is by virtue of having been singled out by= =20 certain extraterrestrials (ETs) as being their particular or primary=20 contactee. This is what the evidence shows; the primary investigators of his= =20 ET experiences in the late 1970s and early to mid-1980s (Wendelle Stevens,= =20 Lee and Brit Elders, Tom Welch, Jim Dilettoso, and Gary Kinder) could see no= =20 way that his main photographs and ET experiences, supported by many=20 witnesses, could have been hoaxed. Their research has been open-minded,=20 intensive and forthright, in contrast, as we shall see, with that of Korff. Part of the mission Meier sees for himself is to disseminate the TJ, or the= =20 true teachings of Jmmanuel, to interested persons. In so doing, however,=20 Meier has gone out of his way to avoid becoming a cult leader, in actively= =20 discouraging persons outside of his small group of supporters at Schmidr=FCt= i,=20 Switzerland, from promoting his story in any grandiose manner or even=20 through public seminars. And he has long discouraged visitors to Schmidr=FCt= i=20 from meeting him. He may be contrasted, for example, with an alleged=20 contactee named Ra=EBl (see his The Message Given to Me by=20 Extra-Terrestrials), who has actively recruited a following of several tens= =20 of thousands despite any supportive evidence. It should be mentioned that if the ETs who contacted Meier had instead=20 chosen a different person and allowed him some 18 different occasions to=20 take rolls of daytime color photographs of their craft, that different=20 person, provided he were to go public, would evoke the same desperate=20 attempts by persons like Korff to discredit him as have been directed=20 against Meier. Taking Korff's claims, charges and innuendo against the TJ in order of=20 occurrence, we may start with the topic uf Judas Iscariot. The TJ was=20 allegedly written by that disciple, and in the TJ one learns that a=20 different person, Juda Ihariot, son of a prominent Pharisee, was the one who= =20 pointed Jmmanuel out to the arresting party and soon afterwards committed=20 suicide. On pp. 78-79 of his book, Korff confuses the issue in an interview= =20 with Bernadette Brand, Meier inner-group member, by not distinguishing the= =20 two names. Because the two names sounded much alike, a chief priest,=20 according to the TJ, was able to initiate a persisting rumor that it was=20 Judas, not Juda, who had betrayed Jmmanuel, thereby succeeding in casting=20 doubt on Jmmanuel's teachings if one of his own disciples could not accept= =20 them, while sparing Juda's Pharisaic father of embarrassment. We don't know= =20 if Korff quoted Brand correctly when she allegedly said, "No. This is=20 another Judas Iscariot" in response to Korff's question of whether the TJ=20 author was the same Judas Iscariot who the Gospels say betrayed Jesus. And= =20 we don't know if Korff could discern the difference between the two names,= =20 if she had mentioned Juda Ihariot, or whether Brand herself for expedience= =20 did equate the two names in replying to Korff. What we do know is that Korff= =20 did not bother to state in his book the different name of the betrayer given= =20 within the TJ, and instead left the issue in a needlessly confused state.=20 lnterestingly, the TJ's matter-of-fact presentation of Judas Iscariot as=20 designated writer among the Twelve, and a different person as betrayer =96= =20 Juda, an acquaintance of Jmmanuel and the disciples =96 solves some five=20 problems concerning Judas, ranging from major to minor, that New Testament= =20 scholars have had to deal with in the past century (see my book, The=20 Problems of New Testament Gospel Origins, Mellen Research University Press,= =20 1992, chap. 6). On p. 78 Korff says that the TJ "can be obtained in the form of another book= =20 called Celestial Teachings: The Talmud of Jmmanuel by Dr. James Deardorff."= =20 This is incorrect on two counts: (a) My book contains various verses and=20 passages extracted from the TJ, but does not begin to set the whole TJ into= =20 print; and (b) The subtitle of CT is quite different from being The Talmud= =20 of Jmmanuel. On p. 78 Korff states that Jmmanuel was a Pleiadean, whereas the TJ=20 indicates that it was lmmanuel's father who was a Pleiadean, his mother=20 being (earthling) Mary. Although this error is corrected in a following=20 sentence, where it is his father who is mentioned as being the Pleiadean, a= =20 second error is immediately incurred in that Korff names Jmmanuels father as= =20 "Plejos" rather than as Gabriel. Instead, according to what Meier learned,= =20 "Plejos" is the name of the Pleiadean ET who was in charge of overseeing=20 much of Earth during Jmmanuel's time. Later in the same sentence, however,= =20 Korff then corrects "Plejos" to "Gabriel." It is evident that Korff has not= =20 read the TJ ; if he had, he would then have no excuse to have become so=20 confused. (Regarding the spelling of "Pleiadean," I should explain that I prefer the= =20 "ean" ending, in analogy to "Archimedean," rather than the "ian" ending,=20 which, however, is most prevalent. And it may be mentioned that Meier has=20 been told by the "Pleiadeans" that they are not really from the Pleiades but= =20 are from that direction in our galaxy, some 80 light years beyond the=20 Pleiades.) On pp. 78-79 Korff expounds on why the Feb. 3rd date that Jmmanuel was born= =20 on, according to what Meier was told during his contact experiences, and the= =20 Feb. 3rd date of Meier's own birthday, represents an irrelevant agreement.= =20 If this is so irrelevant, why then did Korff spend a paragraph speaking=20 about it? On p. 79 Korff promotes an error of omission in the book of Randy Winters,= =20 The Pleiadian Mission, in stating that it was the priest, Isa Rashid, who=20 discovered the TJ. As noted in the Foreword to the 1992 TJ, however, it was= =20 Meier who actually unearthed the resin encasement that contained the TJ=20 scrolls, with Rashid having led him to the site. They can thus be called=20 co-discoverers. At the time, Meier still had his left arm, and thus was able= =20 to carry out the necessary excavating before the encasement containing the= =20 scrolls was uncovered. On p. 79 Korff perpetuates another apparent error of Winters, though a minor= =20 one, in stating that Rashid did his translating of the TJ from Aramaic into= =20 German while living in Baghdad. Instead, the TJ's attachments imply that the= =20 priest continued to live in Jerusalem while secretly working on the TJ=20 translation until around 1970, during which period he transferred the bulk= =20 of the translations then completed to Meier. By 1970 Meier had returned to= =20 Switzerland to raise his young family and, I believe, there received at=20 least one last set of translated TJ pages from Rashid via mail, after which= =20 Meier did not hear from him until September of 1974. However, some time=20 around 1970 Rashid's translation project in Jerusalem was discovered and he= =20 fled with the scrolls to a Lebanese refugee camp. Only after he was flushed= =20 out of the refugee camp by a large conflagration in 1974, which caused the= =20 scrolls to be destroyed, did Rashid flee to Baghdad, where he was=20 assassinated in 1976, according to what Meier was told by Semjase as=20 conveyed in his Contact Notes. On p. 79 Korff states that "what ... people who espouse the Talmud Jmmanuel= =20 as being real ignore is the fact that there are no original scrolls."=20 However, this is not true, because the fact that the original scrolls were= =20 lost or destroyed in 1974 and are no longer available is made clear in the= =20 letter-copy attachment at the end of the TJ, in Meier's Contact Notes, and= =20 has certainly been emphasized by myself in Celestial Teachings and in my=20 later discussions of the topic. This is the primary reason New Testament=20 scholars typically supply as to why they cannot be made interested in the TJ= =20 =96 there are no originals of which they could check the Aramaic writing and= =20 send out to labs for radiocarbon dating analyses. And so this is also an=20 important reason why the TJ has not come to the attention of the general=20 public. On p. 79 Korff implies that the Bible is backed up by original, ancient=20 texts and thus has a preferred status over the TJ, which has just the German= =20 translation to show for itself. However, the earliest complete texts of the= =20 New Testament gospels do not date to earlier than the 4th century; moreover,= =20 patriarchal evidence does indicate that the Gospel of Matthew was the gospel= =20 first written, and written in Hebrew or Aramaic. But all we have received,= =20 centuries later, are Greek transcriptions of other earlier transcriptions of= =20 it that in turn had had to be translated from the Hebrew (in the case of=20 Matthew), at least according to one school of thought. Korff needs to be=20 informed that the originals to the Bible do not exist. The TJ, on the other= =20 hand, is in much better shape than this, having suffered only one=20 translation leading to its 1978 version, which is available for scholarly=20 study from Meier in Switzerland. Later Meier gave the TJ an editorial update= =20 to correct errors and incorporate some unrevealed "code" at the behest of=20 his ET contactors, which led to its 1992 German-English version by Wild=20 Flower Press. The two versions agree in their essential content. This is not= =20 to say, however, that the English version of the TJ is not in need of=20 corrections. In the same paragraph, Korff states that the scrolls "have never been=20 found," and then goes on to complain that the scrolls, which he claims never= =20 existed, were "conveniently lost" by Rashid. All this is a grandstanding=20 denial that avoids treating the available information seriously. The=20 available information indicates that Rashid (by then an ex-priest) and his= =20 young family, while hiding out in a Lebanese refugee camp, had to flee for= =20 their lives after a large section of the camp where they were in hiding was= =20 burned down, according to Rashid's letter, by the Israeli military. They=20 barely managed to escape, but Rashid had no time to retrieve the scrolls=20 from their separate hiding place to take them with him. So it cannot be said= =20 that Rashid simply "lost" the scrolls, especially if he is correct in=20 assuming that the Israeli raid was conducted for the express purpose of=20 eliminating himself and the scrolls, rather than as "punitive action against= =20 Palestinian guerillas." Thus, Korff does not begin to let the reader know=20 what the story is that underlies the TJ's discovery, translation and loss or= =20 destruction. At the time Rashid wrote Meier to tell him about this in=20 September of 1974, he didn't know if the TJ scrolls had been lost to the=20 Israelis or burnt up. Later, Meier was told by his Pleiadean contactors that= =20 the scrolls had been destroyed by the conflagration. This loss was in no way= =20 a "convenience," not even to Rashid, as he was nevertheless assassinated two= =20 years later, from what Meier learned from Semjase, because of his having=20 been the TJ's translator and a witness to the original scrolls. Thus Korff's= =20 cavalier dismissal of all this represents a total distortion. A newspaper search through the New York Times reveals, in a tiny article in= =20 its Aug. 10, 1974 issue (p. 11), that on Friday, Aug. 9th, 1974, Israeli=20 warplanes "attacked a tent encampment and two buildings in southern Lebanon"= =20 (at Fachaya Fukhar or Fashaya Fukhar). Israel's next raid on Lebanon was not= =20 until Sept. 15th. Thus the Aug. 9th raid appears to have been the one that= =20 destroyed the TJ scrolls. A reason the TJ is heretical for Judaism, as well as Christianity, is that= =20 in it Jmmanuel teaches that the Jewish God was not the true Creator God (the= =20 Great Spirit or "the Creation" or Creation), but an advanced human that we'd= =20 nowadays identify as an ET. This of course opens the door for interpretation= =20 of angels as aliens, sky chariots & pillars of cloud or fire as UFOs, and=20 similar treatment of other elements of Old Testament Merkabah mysticism =96= a=20 scenario unacceptable to mainstream Judaism and truly blasphemous within it. On p. 80 Korff claims that the TJ's existence is "evidence of nothing"=20 without the original scrolls. However, one may analyze the translations,=20 study how overwhelmingly improbable it is that they could be any hoax, and= =20 therefore find it extremely plausible that the TJ's originals indeed once=20 existed. What Korff should have said is that, if the burden of proof is upon= =20 Meier to show beyond any doubt that the TJ is genuine, then without=20 possessing the original scrolls he is unable to do so. On p. 80 it is stated that the TJ "is not unique as a document." This is=20 false, since anyone who reads the TJ will immediately note its many unique= =20 narrations, as well as its unique yet natural solutions to scores and scores= =20 of New Testament Gospel problems, both major as well as minor ones, which=20 have occupied New Testament scholars for centuries. Simply because the TJ=20 supports the numerous traditions indicating that Jesus survived the=20 crucifixion does not at all mean that it does not show unique features=20 throughout. Its narration on how Jmmanuel survived the crucifixion, for=20 example, is unique among the 10 or so scenarios various independent scholars= =20 of the past three centuries have proposed to explain Jesus' appearances in= =20 the flesh to his disciples after the crucifixion. On p. 80 Korff claims the TJ says that after Jesus reached India he remained= =20 in hiding. He gives Randy Winter's book as a reference. However, Winters=20 says no such thing, but indicates what Meier had learned from Rashid's early= =20 browsing of the end sections of the TJ scrolls =97 that Jmmanuel raised a=20 family in Kashmir and continued with his teachings even there. Also on p. 80 Korff mentions the book Jesus Lived in India by German author= =20 and investigator, Holger Kersten, and exclaimed, "ln truth, Meier had even= =20 read Kersten's book!" Here Korff was apparently implying that Kersten's=20 rendering of the Jesus-in-lndia traditions gave Meier the idea of hoaxing=20 this theme into the TJ. What Korff failed to mention, however, is that=20 Kersten's book first came out (in German) only in 1983, whereas the TJ first= =20 appeared in print in 1978. This is an example of a flagrant innuendo by= Korff. On pp. 80-81, Korff states that the typewritten translations by Rashid=20 received by Meier were analyzed by several unnamed scholars in Germany and= =20 Switzerland, and that they "decided not to publish their results." Korff did= =20 not name the source of the letter to him that supposedly disclosed this=20 piece of information, claiming, he said, that this source wished to remain= =20 anonymous because the results were negative. However, the points that Korff= =20 goes on to mention from a Swiss scholar are the same as those which Prof.=20 Ted Auerbach of Gebenstorf, Switzerland, has discussed with me in=20 correspondence (Auerbach, Feb. 5, 1988; April 16, 1988; Sept. 29, 1988; Feb.= =20 2, 1989 and March 31, 1989). After noticing this, I spoke with the=20 international director of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), and he confirmed that= =20 Auerbach indeed was the person referred to here by Korff (Walt Andrus,=20 telephone conversation of April 19, 1996). Auerbach is one of MUFON's=20 overseas consultants, and was Andrus's key advisor in Switzerland. That=20 Auerbach did not publish his conclusions anywhere is understandable, as what= =20 journal would accept discussions, often detailed and technical in nature, on= =20 topics connected to a heavily debunked UFO-contactee case and also involving= =20 heresies for Christianity and Judaism? However, there seems no reason for Korff to have withheld Auerbach's=20 identity, unless it be because Auerbach has indicated that he has come to=20 see much realism in Meier's experiences. For example, in his letter of Feb.= =20 2, 1989, Auerbach wrote: "A member of our UFO club gave me G. Kinder's=20 'Light Years', and I finished reading it a few days ago. The book convinced= =20 me that I had done some injustice to E. Meier. This goes to show that one=20 should not judge a person until all the information is at hand. I always=20 thought that Meier's photos still were likely to be fakes. However,=20 according to the book this is impossible. There may be some false ones among= =20 them, but the great majority of them, amounting to several hundred pictures,= =20 must be genuine. Also, I did not realize that he has had more than 100=20 meetings with Semjase." Until 1988, Auerbach's knowledge of the Meier case came only from materials= =20 loaned to him in 1976 by Hans Jacob, an early member of Meier's group of=20 supporters who soon defected. (Jacob is mentioned frequently in Korff's=20 book.) Auerbach kept the materials for a month or two, took notes, and then= =20 returned the materials to Jacob, who had asked Auerbach to advise him=20 whether or not to remain a member of Meier's group. On p. 82 Korff includes a portion of a summary report by the Swiss=20 scientist, said to date to 1980, which states, "The Talmud turns out to be= =20 the New Testament verbatim, but with a large number of additions without=20 much ethical value." This first part is not correct, as it is only the=20 Gospel of Matthew that exhibits many parallel passages to the TJ, not the=20 whole New Testament; and even about half of these passages or, more=20 precisely, verses, are only poorly or moderately correlated with TJ verses= =20 (see Celestial Teachings, pp. 227-232). As to the second half of the above= =20 quote, the task of such a study should have been not only to see if a case= =20 could be made that the "additions" were such as could have been inserted by= =20 a hoaxer, or even by Meier himself, but also to see if an even stronger case= =20 could not be made for the opposite: that the compiler of the Gospel of=20 Matthew had had the TJ in front of him and omitted much from it, especially= =20 everything heretical, when writing his gospel. Celestial Teachings considers= =20 both angles, but indicates overwhelmingly that the latter is the case. It,= =20 moreover, analyzes what appear to have been the additions made to the TJ=20 text by the compiler of Matthew and shows how these additions have been=20 preferentially pointed out by various New Testament scholars to be=20 redactions (editorial additions). There is no way that Meier's limited=20 fourth-grade education could have prepared him to be a literary hoaxer=20 excelling over any known Gospel scholars, or could have allowed him to=20 attract an unknown scholar of unsurpassed ability to create a literary hoax= =20 comparable to the TJ. However, Auerbach was proceeding on the assumption=20 that the TJ had to be a hoax, and so did not consider this most important=20 aspect of the problem. As to the TJ's "additions" not being of much ethical value, one should=20 notice that the compiler of Matthew had no reason to omit those portions of= =20 the TJ pertaining to ethics that were compatible with early Christianity.=20 Thus such material, which is seen to trace back to the TJ, is found in=20 Matthew; e.g. , the Golden Rule, and "Why do you=85not notice the log that= is=20 in your own eye?" What this compiler is found to have omitted, in=20 particular, were the TJ's teachings about the existence, evolution, and=20 immortality of the human spirit and its connection to true God, or "the=20 Creation." Obviously the compiler of Matthew could not include material in= =20 his gospel that deviated from the teachings of early Christianity, for which= =20 the only spirit to be emphasized was the external Holy Spirit, whose=20 emphasis traces back to Paul. Thus the TJ does contain a goodly number of=20 teachings of ethical value beyond those that managed to find their way into= =20 the Gospel of Matthew; in particular Jmmanuel's admonitions to obey the=20 natural law of the Creation. In this same portion of the sumary report it is stated (Korff, p. 82), "lt= =20 is hard to see how the New Testament can agree word for word with the=20 original =96 apart from the added passages =96 if the latter [the original]= lay=20 buried all the time." Again I point out that the agreement was usually much= =20 less than perfect, and not with the New Testament as a whole but with=20 substantial portions of Matthew. Only about 17% of Matthew's verses are very= =20 highly correlated with verses within the 1978 TJ (Celestial Teachings, p.=20 232). Even this much correlation may probably be attributed largely to the= =20 fact that Rashid was a priest who, in translating the TJ into German, must= =20 have had the German Bible in front of him as a guide in choosing optimal=20 words in those verses that seemed to be about the same in the TJ as in the= =20 German Bible. To move on to the last part of the report's same question, restated =96 "How= =20 could the Gospel of Matthew agree with substantial portions of the TJ if the= =20 latter lay buried until 1963?" =96 it is not at all difficult to understand= =20 how the TJ likely came to be known to the writer of Matthew. One need only= =20 infer that Judas Iscariot, during the 40 years or so of his later life in=20 India, had time to transcribe the TJ scrolls as well as continuing to add to= =20 them, thus making an additional set, which in early 2nd century was carried= =20 back to Palestine along with the originals (by Jmmanuel's oldest son,=20 Joseph, according to what Meier learned from Rashid). Perhaps Judas even=20 made one or two further sets of transcriptions that never survived in India.= =20 Or perhaps this Joseph made a transcription of the first part of the lengthy= =20 scrolls =96 the only portions that would be deemed of interest to persons= who=20 had known of Jmmanuel in Palestine =96 on his two-year trek from India to=20 Palestine. Once in the Palestinian region he probably released the=20 transcription to some seemingly capable and honest person who knew of some= =20 of the true traditions about what Jmmanuel had taught, but eventually the=20 scrolls found their way into the hands of the compiler of Matthew in an=20 unknown early church. The original scrolls, however, Joseph encased in resin= =20 and buried in the tombsite near Jerusalem, not to be discovered for some 19= =20 centuries. There is no shortage of possibilities of this nature that exist,= =20 on which one can only speculate, but which Auerbach either could not imagine= =20 or chose to ignore. In his letter to me of March 11, 1988, Auerbach=20 mentioned that this whole question had struck him right from the beginning;= =20 it seems that his failure to have seen plausible solutions to it was a prime= =20 cause for his proceeding on the assumption that the TJ must be a hoax. The same portion of the report claims, "both the additions and the letter of= =20 the priest are written in Mr. Meier's characteristic style, containing all= =20 the errors in German also found in the Semjase manuscript." Some suggested= =20 examples of such errors are evidently given further into the report, and are= =20 the ones Auerbach has discussed with me. The so-called "additional" TJ=20 material, having no parallel in Matthew, would require the most editing by= =20 Meier because its content would have been strange for both Rashid and for=20 Meier's key editorial assistant of 1976-1978 (Frau Krauer). Meier, however,= =20 had been educated in many ways by his earlier contacts with the ETs named=20 Sfath and Asket, and was prepared for the TJ's non-biblical revelations.=20 From his editing, it is of course to be expected that some of Meier's=20 personal writing style would show through, including his use of=20 Swiss-German. After all, Meier was the TJ's editor, and likely felt that=20 Rashid's rendering of German in places left something to be desired. Such an= =20 imprint from Meier may then exhibit some positive correlation with Meier's= =20 writing style within the Contact Notes, since the latter were all channeled= =20 through his mind. This same portion of the summary report claims (Korff, p. 82), "comparison= =20 shows the letter alleged to have been written by the priest in Iraq actually= =20 to have been typed on the same typewriter as the Semjase manuscript." (ln=20 this and preceding paragraphs where I quote Korff, the italics within quotes= =20 stem from Korff.) This latter manuscript refers to Meier's Contact Notes, of= =20 which I possess copies of the German versions of Nos. 2, 61, 76, and 150,=20 dated Feb. 3, 1975, July 29, 1976, May 23, 1977, and Oct. 19, 1978,=20 respectively. These I have compared against the Rashid-letter copy in the=20 TJ. Both Rashid's letter and the Contact Notes up until about 1978 do appear= =20 to have been written on the same kind of typewriter =96 same style of German= =20 typeface. Hence I will be comparing those Contact Notes (Nos. 2, 61, 76)=20 with the Rashid letter. In so doing, I note four particular distinguishing= =20 peculiarities: (a) With the typewriter used by Rashid, the top of the "9" lies slightly too= =20 low, as seen from 2 out of 2 occurrences. In the three German Contact Notes,= =20 on the other hand, it lies at the proper height =96 flush with the tops of= =20 other numbers (except the 6 whose top extends on upwards) =96 in all 10=20 instances it occurred. (b) With the typewriter in question used by Meier, the lower-case "w" tends= =20 to fall too low. Judging from the position of the base of the "w" relative= =20 to the average base line of neighboring letters, in 61 out of 89 occurrences= =20 (examining first pages of the Notes from the three particular contacts) its= =20 base was positioned 8% or more too low; in 27 more of the 89 it also fell=20 too low to a lesser extent. On only 1 of the 89 occurrences noted did its=20 position coincide with the average base line, within the estimated=20 uncertainty of =B12%. With Rashid's typewriter, on the other hand, the=20 position of the bottom of the "w" agreed with that of the base line within= =20 the small uncertainty of estimation in 31 of 34 occurrences; it lay=20 detectably below the base line on only 3 of the 34 occurrences. This=20 distinction is quite noticeable, and indicates that two different=20 typewriters were involved. (c) In the typescript of the Rashid letter the left side of its "=FC" is= weak=20 12 out of 12 times, and also the lower-left side of its "=E4" 7 out of 8=20 times. This could represent either a deficiency in the functioning or=20 structure of those particular typewriter keys or failure of Rashid to strike= =20 them hard enough. No such peculiarity shows up in the Contact Notes. (d) In 3 out of the 7 times where "ur" appears in the Rashid letter, the two= =20 letters lie so close together that their bottoms touch or merge; this does= =20 not occur in any of the three particular Contact Notes examined where I=20 counted 75 occurrences of "ur". A reason for this to have occurred in=20 Rashid's letter is that the "u" gets struck by the right index finger and=20 the "r" by the left, so that inexact coordination can cause the two keys to= =20 strike too closely in succession at times, in turn causing the letter=20 imprints to occur too close together =96 a problem solved by later word=20 processors. The Contact Notes, however, were typed by Meier himself; having= =20 only one hand, this problem did not occur. One may also include in the comparison a copy of a letter of agreement=20 between Rashid and Meier dated Aug. 4, 1963, which Meier managed to save=20 over the years. (Rashid was to retain custody of the scrolls, Meier custody= =20 of the German translations produced by Rashid.) The typewriter used therein= =20 has a slightly different typeface than that used in the Contact Notes or in= =20 Rashid's letter, as is best seen by comparing the J's. In this letter of=20 agreement Rashid's signature appears to be readily identifiable as coming=20 from the same hand as in his 1974 letter, though differences in detail are= =20 also apparent. In particular, the latter signature is somewhat less well=20 articulated than the earlier signature. In summary, the charge that the same typewriter was used in typing the=20 Contact Notes and the letter from Rashid in the rear of the TJ does not=20 stand up under close scrutiny. One does not need to be a typewriting expert= =20 to notice the differences I have discussed. Let us move further into this report (p. 82 of Korff's book), where it=20 mentions that in the Contact Notes Semjase made a point of bestowing lavish= =20 praise upon Meier at times. By omitting the fact that Meier just as=20 frequently objected to this praise, which remarks were also faithfully=20 reproduced in the Notes, Auerbach was implying that Meier had inserted this= =20 within invented conversations to make himself look good. Also omitted in the report was any discussion of a very plausible reason why= =20 Meier's contactors at times would have spoken to him in excessively=20 flattering terms: in order that their contacts not force unreceptive people= =20 to believe what their belief systems cannot tolerate; namely, that ETs or=20 aliens further evolved than we are exist in our vicinity, are aware of us=20 and have interacted with selected persons. That is, aliens purposely include= =20 speech, actions and items in their contacts that can be used to discredit=20 their contactee and/or undermine the supportive evidence they may have=20 allowed him to possess concerning their existence. If the positive evidence= =20 supporting the reality of the contacts is ignored, the disinformation fed in= =20 by the alien contactors can then give critics of an anthropocentric mindset= =20 an excuse to maintain their existing beliefs without "going crazy." Although= =20 this would mean that the Pleiadeans, being the ETs in consideration, are=20 more intelligent than their skeptical human detractors and can stay several= =20 jumps ahead of them, this kind of strategy should not be so surprising if=20 they are thousands or tens of thousands of years more evolved than we, and= =20 are ethical enough not to force any sudden mental chaos upon society. This= =20 thought seems to be a giant stumbling block for negative skeptics =96 that= UFO=20 aliens would be smarter or more knowledgeable than they themselves are =96= =20 causing skeptics at times to utilize ridicule to deny the observations=20 rather than face up to reality. The ethic of not forcing skeptics to believe= =20 what they simply cannot accept as real appears to be a higher one than the= =20 ethic of never lying, when the disinformation is presented within a context= =20 of requiring us to "sift out the wheat from the chaff." At various points within the Contact Notes, Semjase does tell Meier that=20 they regard the individual's free will as paramount, and also that the worst= =20 result that could happen from their contacts would be for it all to be=20 turned into another religion or cult, with either them being considered gods= =20 and goddesses or Meier becoming a world renowned guru. By feeding in some=20 semi-obvious disinformation to what they told Meier, which would be=20 incorporated into his Contact Notes and later be seen by detractors as=20 egoism or dumb invented remarks on the part of Meier, the Pleiadeans would= =20 be fulfilling all these objectives. (A person can be said to be subject to a= =20 cult, or to an unnecessary loyalty, when he unquestioningly accepts what the= =20 cult leader says as truth. If one has to question the veracity of each=20 statement made by a source, that source can scarcely qualify as the head of= =20 a cult.) Neither Korff nor Auerbach mentions this explanation, which seems= =20 evident enough in retrospect. Do detractors like Korff really think that=20 aliens who can "get from there to here," and make their UFO craft perform=20 wondrous maneuvers we can only gasp at, wouldn't also be smarter, more=20 knowledgeable, more experienced and more clever than we ourselves are? The same report (Korff, p. 82) then injects the sentence: "No one,=20 incidentally, including his wife and children, has ever seen Semjase." To be= =20 true, this sentence should have read, "No Earth human, except Meier, has=20 ever seen and recognized Semjase as far as we know, with an exception=20 reported by Stevens" (in his Preliminary Investigation Report, pp. 177-179).= =20 But consider the erroneous impression this leaves by failure to mention that= =20 on one occasion four adults besides Meier's wife and children had a daytime= =20 sighting of Semjase's beamship. (Others who had sightings of Pleiadean craft= =20 connected with Meier's contacts are named in Preliminary Investigation=20 Report.) Until about the time Meier's wife, Kalliope, had her sighting, she= =20 had been upset and confused or disbelieving about it all. But afterwards,=20 she told the Elders this (from UFO=85 Contact from the Pleiades, Vol. 2, by= =20 Lee and Brit Elders, Genesis III Publishing, p. 45, as translated into=20 English): "ln June of 1976, seven people were waiting with me for Billy to come back= =20 from a contact. He came and said to us, 'go with me to another point.' We=20 went and waited. It was daylight and one of the boys told us to look up into= =20 the sky. It was our first sighting in the day. The ship was very big but got= =20 smaller as it rose, and I clearly saw the detail around the top of the ship.= =20 I saw little ports, and the whole UFO seemed to be light. The children,=20 three other women and one man saw it, too. There are many lights going=20 across the sky at night and I cannot be sure what they are, but this I am=20 sure was the ship of Semjase. I didn't believe it before because I had never= =20 talked about UFO's or seen one. But after this day=85l believe. "Now the UFO's are secondary, the information from the Pleiadians come=20 first. We have to learn to live together=85man and woman, different= countries,=20 different races and different worlds." This information has been available since 1983, and for Korff to omit it=20 from his book represents unconscionable bias in reporting. Being a daytime= =20 eyewitness to the UFO whose pilot Meier had been having contacts with is=20 certainly relevant information that the pilot existed. Although Korff lists= =20 (p. 307) names of 21 witnesses who saw UFOs related to Meier's contacts, and= =20 Kalliope is included, he falsely implies (p. 306) that these were all just= =20 nighttime observations "of blobs of light." The same portion of the summary report goes on to say (Korff, p. 82), "The= =20 manuscript [Meier's Contact Notes] makes it abundantly clear that she=20 [Semjase] wishes to confine her contacts strictly to Mr. Meier alone.=20 Certainly a convenient wish." Again, the report omitted other relevant=20 material within the Contact Notes in which Semjase explained to Meier why=20 they had to maintain this policy, since Meier quizzed her about it several= =20 times and asked permission to bring one or two others along on more than one= =20 occasion. Her explanation involved their need to avoid making their contacts= =20 so well attested that many people would abruptly be forced to believe in=20 their existence before they were mentally and psychologically prepared to do= =20 so. Failure to provide the explanation along with a fact can create a=20 misleading picture. And again, the report's use of "convenient" here implies= =20 through innuendo that it was convenient for a hoaxer to have invented the=20 contact-confinement theme, while ignoring the likelihood that it was part of= =20 the ETs' strategy. The summary report continues with the mention of various statements Meier=20 was told by Semjase, and which therefore appeared in his verbatim Contact=20 Notes, that sound like silly science or pseudo-science, at least to most=20 scientists. Apparently, the members of the Swiss-German study group referred= =20 to by Korff, along with Korff, believe that what ETs tell their=20 contactees/abductees has to be truth and nothing but the truth! That's quite= =20 an assumption for an investigative group to make, and as has just been=20 pointed out here, seems unjustified. An ET strategy of including some=20 disinformation is an obvious alternative to the possibility that it was=20 Meier who was not always telling the truth; yet Korff seems not to have=20 considered it. However, it is not always possible for us to say with=20 certainty which statements are disinformation and which are not but only=20 seem so because of our highly limited scientific understanding, which=20 frequently needs revision as science progresses. Think of how many ways our= =20 science has been updated in the past century, then try to imagine how many= =20 further updates and totally new revisions will have occurred by 50 centuries= =20 from now. Korff's rendition of the summary report then says that Meier "had had=20 himself transported back in time to Jerusalem." This is in need of a=20 correction: he did not request the trip; rather it was urged upon him by his= =20 ET contactor at the time (1956), namely Asket. Only due to some respected=20 scientists in the past decade having concluded that time travel may not be= =20 inconceivable after all must its possibility now be taken seriously by UFO= =20 critics. The report then states, "The Lord listens patiently to a great deal of=20 religious philosophy on the part of Mr. Meier and duly admires his high=20 intelligence." Here, to start with, it is misleading to have called Jmmanuel= =20 "the Lord," as both at this point and in the TJ, through prophetic insight,= =20 he made clear that he was not the son of God or what he has come to be known= =20 by with the Christian title of Lord. It is further misleading to imply that Meier did most of the talking to=20 which Jmmanuel only listened. During this past-time encounter with Jmmanuel,= =20 Meier spoke 91 sentences, including many questions directed to Jmmanuel, who= =20 spoke 253 sentences. This is the opposite of what the report implies. Out of these 253 sentences, few relate to Meier's intelligence. One did call= =20 Meier "wise" or "fast-thinking," and this was in response to Meier's=20 recognition and commendation ot Jmmanuel's precognitive abilities. In one=20 other sentence Jmmanuel told Meier he was very educated in spirit, which is= =20 different, however, from mental intelligence. In another Jmmanuel told Meier= =20 that he was more discerning than he had expected, which, however, refers=20 only to an unknown expectation. At one point he told Meier that Meier=20 properly caught his meaning, though this is "cancelled" by his telling Meier= =20 at another point that Meier had not interpreted him right. And once he was= =20 surprised that Meier could conceive qualitatively of how it was possible for= =20 him (Jmmanuel) to prophesy far into the future. This represents only 2 or 3= =20 sentences of "high intelligence" praise, however, which do not seem=20 undeserved, out of 253, and so does not begin to justify the prominence the= =20 report assigned to it. An unbiased report would have discussed some of the= =20 substance of the conversations, but if the report did, Korff chose not to=20 reproduce it. This substance included discussions of how Christianity went= =20 sadly astray from Jmmanuel's teachings, and discussion of the degree of=20 development of Meier's spirit relative to Jmmanuel's, a topic Meier was=20 naturally quite interested in. Finally, what Korff presents from Auerbach's summary report speaks of=20 Meier's frequent use of characteristic mistakes in the German language. This= =20 was meant to imply that the same mistakes occur in both the German TJ and=20 the Contact Notes or Rashid's letter, with Meier supposedly having hoaxed=20 them all. Now, as noted before, the appearance of Meier's personal style=20 should not be unexpected within the Contact Notes, since they are his own=20 reproduction, through a rapid form of technologically channeled "automatic= =20 writing" from the Pleiadeans, of his own conversations with the Pleiadeans= =20 he had held the previous day or night during a contact. They were all=20 expressed through his own thoughts, and were thus expressed in his own=20 Swiss-German tongue. And they are not unexpected within the TJ, since Meier= =20 edited it. Concerning Rashid, we cannot expect that his knowledge of German, being a=20 second or third language for him, would be independent of what he learned=20 from Meier. He conversed with Meier frequently in 1963, kept in touch with= =20 him afterwards, and may have exchanged letters with him. Thus in all=20 probability Rashid learned some Swiss-German from Meier. A few pieces of=20 this style learned from Meier might then be expected to have appeared in his= =20 letters to Meier, and also in his translation of the TJ, since he of course= =20 knew that Meier was the custodian of the TJ's translation. As anyone knows,= =20 parts of a foreign language learned from someone with whom you speak and=20 whom you respect will stick with you better than what you learn from a=20 textbook or in class. Only three examples of these improprieties in language are mentioned in=20 Korff's summary of the report, the first being Meier's use of "yet however,"= =20 which refers to "doch aber" in the German and does not represent good German= =20 grammar. This is a perceptive observation by Auerbach. I have found this=20 used 5 times in the TJ, which occur in its verses that are distinctive of=20 Matthean verses, and one time in Rashid's letter. Assuming it is indeed an= =20 expression also used by Meier, this could be a prime example of an=20 expression Rashid picked up from Meier and continued to use at times when=20 expressing thoughts in the German language intended for Meier to read. On=20 the other hand, one cannot be sure that Meier himself did not, in giving the= =20 TJ its initial editing, try to improve upon Rashid's translation and, in so= =20 doing, insert "doch" before "aber" in some or all of these instances.=20 Auerbach was apparently not open to either of these two possibilities, as=20 they seem not to have occurred to him. The second example is Meier's not infrequent use of the German word "so" to= =20 mean "so that." This observation of Auerbach also seems correct, assuming=20 the improper use of "so" did not stem from Rashid himself during=20 translation. However, it says nothing against the validity of the TJ, for=20 the reason already mentioned of Meier being its editor. The third example=20 given is that "Olives" was once written (somewhere) as "Oilives," regarding= =20 the Mount of Olives. However, since this refers to some English translation= =20 of the TJ, and since the word for the Mount used in its two appearances in= =20 the German TJ is spelled correctly, as in the German Bible (=D6lberg), this= =20 criticism is irrelevant. It is puzzling that Auerbach would have brought it= up. The summary report (Korff, p. 83) mentions that "logical" and "forms of=20 life" are favorite expressions of Meier. Although the point of this is not= =20 given in Korff's presentation, it is clear from Auerbach's letter to me of= =20 March 31, 1989, he was concluding that the occurrence of "logic" (some 20=20 times) within the TJ as opposed to its non-occurrence within the Bible means= =20 that Meier placed it within the TJ. Again, however, Auerbach was just=20 stating the conclusion that comes from already having assumed the TJ to be a= =20 hoax, rather than examining the likelihood that a word meaning "logic"=20 occurred freqently in the original TJ and was then removed by the early=20 2nd-century Christian-scribe editor as he compiled the Gospel of Matthew. One needs to ask, if Jmmanuel had taught basic truths, or even learned some= =20 from the Pleiadeans, is it not likely this would have involved mention of=20 logic? Neither Auerbach nor Korff asked this question. Although logic may=20 have been of little or no concern within Judaic literature of that era, it= =20 was a well developed concept within Greek literature, and even many=20 "mainstream" New Testament scholars assume that Jesus must have known Greek.= =20 The TJ itself indicates that Jmmanuel had knowledge of one Greek saying,=20 which derives from Plato in the 4th century B.C. =96 the saying, "Man is the= =20 measure of all things," within an extended prophecy speaking about people of= =20 the future: "Thus they will also lose sight of the principle of the oldest wisdom, which= =20 says that humans are the measure of all things in life, because they are=20 after all a part of the Creation." (TJ 36:25) Thus it is only consistent that Jmmanuel urged the use of logic within the= TJ. One also needs to ask, Would the writer of Matthew have had reason to omit= =20 the word or thought involving "logic," or substitute something else for it,= =20 when editing the TJ and forming his gospel? The answer to this question is= =20 also affirmative. Consistent with other alterations the compiler of Matthew= =20 is deduced to have made to the TJ, he is seen to have omitted TJ teachings= =20 that encourage the reader to think for himself, apparently because followers= =20 of the new religion were supposed to obey the teachings of the church and=20 its scribes rather than to think independently. That is, if one uses logic,= =20 one is thinking for oneself. An additional reason for this compiler's=20 omission of "logic" is that as a concept more in use in gentile lands, e.g.,= =20 in Greece, than in the land of Israel, and with the compiler of Matthew=20 being anti-gentile in his outlook (as may be seen from some 8 or 9 verses of= =20 Matthew), "logic" would not likely have appealed to him. Six of the 20=20 usages of "logic" occur in text presenting teachings of Jmmanuel occurring= =20 well after his survival of the crucifixion, and so could not have been made= =20 use of by the compiler of Matthew for that reason alone. As to a preference by Meier for the phrase "forms of life," this has little= =20 connection to the TJ, as it appears there only once ("Lebensformen" or "life= =20 forms").One needs to keep the TJ context in mind =96 of Jmmanuel himself= being=20 a contactee, having received 40 days and nights of tutoring under the same= =20 general ET group (Pleiadeans) as those who contacted Meier, and who, having= =20 an ET biological father and being aware of it, consequently spoke frequentiy= =20 in terms of this "human race," and of the Creation being the maker of the=20 universes and of all living things. Within this background, it is not at all= =20 surprising that "life forms" would also receive mention. No doubt the phrase= =20 occurs more frequently in the Contact Notes, where the subject must have=20 arisen several times in conjunction with Meier's numerous questions to=20 Semjase, and her replies, on all kinds of topics. In his letter to me of March 11, 1988, Auerbach also pointed out that in=20 Rashid's letter, his clause "Es ist mir leid" (l am sorry) represents a=20 mistake in grammar also present in Meier's Contact Notes, thus implying that= =20 Meier hoaxed the letter by Rashid. The preferred expression is "Es tut mir= =20 leid." However, this could well represent another idiosyncrasy Rashid picked= =20 up from Meier in 1963. On the other hand, the expression may not be so=20 ideosyncratic, as the use of "ist" instead of "tut" is OK'd in the Cassell's= =20 1978 German-English dictionary (see under leid). Other criticisms of Auerbach similarly seem based simply on the fact that=20 much of the TJ's content is different than what's in the Bible. Thus this=20 also contributed to his initial bias that the TJ could not possibly be=20 genuine. This is despite the fact that he found the TJ "to be a persuasive= =20 document" (in correspondence of March 31, 1989), and found its "Epilog and= =20 Explanation" page to be "particularly interesting" (in correspondence of=20 Sept. 29, 1988). Korff then (p. 83) mentions a so-called analysis of the TJ by Michael=20 Arends, a German ufologist, in which "similarities were noted between the=20 typewriter used by Billy Meier to transcribe his 'contact' notes with=20 Semjase and the 'Rashid' translations Meier claimed to have received from=20 Baghdad. Arends identified specific letter characters which he found=20 indicative that the same typewriter had been used." This is essentially the= =20 same claim already discussed and shown to be unfounded. As an aid to=20 answering this kind of question, however, it would have been very helpful if= =20 Meier had retained the rough TJ translations he received from Rashid.=20 However, after overseeing the editing of the TJ manuscript and readying it= =20 for publication in 1977-78, Meier unfortunately did not retain them. From=20 his viewpoint there was no need to, storage space being at a premium, since= =20 he knew as a personal fact that the TJ he co-discovered was genuine, and=20 that if his many hundreds of photographs of Pleiadean beamships did not=20 convince a person of the reality of his experiences, additional less direct= =20 evidence would not be convincing to such a person either. Korff goes on to say that Arends "discovered that entire passages had been= =20 embellished on and lifted from a standard Lutheran version of the Bible."=20 This again goes over some of the same ground already covered. What Korff=20 failed to say here in this unproven claim is that any priest who is already= =20 well acquainted with the Gospels would find that, in translating those=20 passages of the TJ that had been most faithfully carried over into the=20 Gospel of Matthew, his translation would naturally end up sounding very much= =20 like what is in that Gospel. The following question would then arise for=20 him: Should he then translate those sections into the words and language as= =20 he remembers them from the version of the Bible he was most acquainted with,= =20 or should he not use one particular Bible as his guide, and use its language= =20 consistently for these parallel passages? The latter is an evident choice,= =20 in which case the Bible he used would have been the well known and=20 prevailingly used German Bible (which is the Martin Luther Bible), since the= =20 translation from the Aramaic was into German. The only other alternative=20 would be to try to cast his translation into a form that would seem fresh=20 and never before used, such as referring to the Mount of Olives as the "Hill= =20 of Olives" or "Hill of Oval Drupes," as an extreme example of the problem=20 that would be encountered. So Rashid evidently had the German Bible on hand= =20 and used its German in familiar passages. Yet, from the point of view not considered by Arends or Korff =96 that the= TJ=20 could be authentic =96 one finds that it was the compiler of Matthew who= made=20 many insertions, omissions, and substitutions when utilizing the TJ as his= =20 source. And one finds a very consistent picture of the theological slant of= =20 this compiler from this viewpoint, as well as fresh and consistent solutions= =20 to the problems of Gospel priorities and interpretations of the few, terse,= =20 ambiguous sayings about the formation of the Gospels that have survived from= =20 certain early church fathers but continue to puzzle mainstream Bible=20 scholarship. These alterations incorporated into Matthew then are what=20 Arends refers to as "embellishments" from the standpoint of his assumption= =20 that Meier is guilty of fraud. Thus Arends and Korff are guilty of failing= =20 to even consider the likelihood that it was the compiler of Matthew who made= =20 massive editorial alterations in rendering his source document, the TJ, into= =20 a form acceptable to the early church, namely, into the Gospel of Matthew.= =20 The interested reader may need to consult The Problems of New Testament=20 Gospel Origins to learn how strong the evidence is that Matthew (not Mark)= =20 was the first Gospel written, and in Hebrew or Aramaic, with Mark being=20 second and Luke third, just as attested by the early church fathers:=20 Irenaeus, Origen and Augustine and implied by bishop Papias. On p. 83 of his book Korff also mentions a verbal attack against Meier that= =20 not too long ago was launched by Underground Video (UV) of Beverly Hills,=20 CA. However, their charges seem to be of the same nature as Korff's 6- quite= =20 unsubstantiated, with few details being made available. However, in a=20 footnote referring to a conversation with UV's president, Korff does mention= =20 one particular charge: that UV had "discovered evidence proving that the=20 Talmud Jmmanuel does not contain Aramaic!" One scarcely knows what to make= =20 of this charge. Does it mean that UV or Korff thinks that after translation= =20 of a document from Aramaic into German the latter should contain Aramaic=20 writing? To interpret this charge in the most intelligent light, it may be that UV=20 was claiming that the German TJ does not show any awkward language=20 indicative of having been translated quite literally from the Aramaic in=20 places. Such indications, if present in the translated text, would be called= =20 Aramaisms, whose meaning Korff may not have understood. However, in the 1978= =20 German TJ there are some Aramaisms that are sufficiently evident that even a= =20 non-scholar of Aramaic, such as myself, can identify them (with the help of= =20 some textbooks that discuss Aramaisms within the Gospels). One set of them= =20 involves sentences of the type where "and he spoke" or similar words occur,= =20 seemingly redundantly, just following another verb having very nearly the=20 same meaning, such as "answered." It is an indication that the original text= =20 contained no quotation marks, as punctuation was not invented until a few=20 centuries later. Thus, "and spoke" served to notify the reader that a=20 quotation was commencing. One would search for these indications primarily= =20 in those portions of the TJ not having Matthean parallels, since the same=20 redundancies persisted also into the German Bible, which stems from old=20 texts (Greek or Latin). An example occurs at TJ 28:41, which has no parallel= =20 in Matthew for reasons that may become obvious. A literal translation of the= =20 German, with the redundant phrase italicized, reads: "But Jmmanuel answered und spoke: 'Truly I say to you: You may succeed for a= =20 long time in accusing Judas Iscariot of treason in front of the people, but= =20 the truth will come out and be known by all in the whole world.'" The actual English translation by Wild Flower Press omits the redundant "and= =20 spoke," which indicates how easily such an Aramaism can innocently be=20 removed. Fortunately, however, neither Rashid nor Meier or his editorial=20 assistant removed this and some other redundancies. (ls Meier, with no=20 formal schooling past the fourth grade, supposed to have known about this=20 and hoaxed in such an indication of an underlying ancient text?) Another=20 such instance occurs at TJ 29:27 in the 1992 German version, which is TJ=20 29:33 in the 1978 version. Two more occur at TJ 31:12, 13 respectively,=20 which read, literally: "But Mary asked and spoke, 'Yet he was dead and lay here dead, how can he=20 rise?' But the guardian angel answered and spoke, 'Why are you seeking=20 someone alive among the dead?'" Another instance occurs at TJ 31:52, and another at TJ 33:23 (1992 version;= =20 in TJ 33:21, 1978 version). Another occurs at TJ 35:20 (1992 version; in TJ= =20 35:21, 1978 version). Still another occurs at TJ 23:33. Two more occur at TJ= =20 29:45, 46 (1992 version; in TJ 29:50, 51 in the 1978 version). With a=20 literal translation these two read: "Slowly the screaming stopped, and a third time the governor asked and=20 spoke: 'Which one of these two shall I release?' The people cried out and=20 spoke, 'Free Barabbas!'" Two more instances occur in the following two TJ verses, and another at TJ= =20 30:6. Still another occurs at TJ 31:51. These are 14 instances that have=20 been pointed out here; there may well be more. A more distinctive type of Aramaism occurs in TJ 3:31, in the passage: "When Jmmanuel had been baptized, he soon came out of the water of the=20 Jordan, and behold, a metallic light dropped from the sky and descended=20 steeply over the Jordan. Consequently they all fell on their faces and=20 pressed them into the sand while a voice from the metallic light spoke,=20 'This is my beloved son =85'" The italicized expression in the original Aramaic means to bow down to, or= =20 cower before, some exalted person or object. In this case, however, the=20 expression can be taken more literally than usual, because of the fear that= =20 a close-up UFO encounter instills in bewildered spectators. A still different type of Aramaism occurs in the Sermon on the Mount at TJ= =20 5:30, a verse not in Matthew. The verse, with a literal translation of the= =20 portion of the German exhibiting the Aramaism (in italics), reads: "lf a thought causes you annoyance, eradicate it and ban it from your brain.= =20 It is better to destroy a thought that incites annoyance and not to bring=20 the whole world of thought into an uprnar." If Rashid had been concerned to render this into better German, he would=20 have used the common German word "als" here, which means "than," instead of= =20 "and not." And indeed, in the English translation by Wild Flower Press=20 "than" is used, thus removing the Aramaism. It turns out that the Aramaic=20 language lacked the ability to express this comparative sense in the manner= =20 we are used to (see M. Black, An Ararnaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts,= =20 3rd Ed., 1967, Oxford Univ. Press, p. 117), not having the direct equivalent= =20 to "than," and so other language was used to put across the intended= thought. These examples show some of the Aramaisms and evidence of ancient origins=20 exhibited by the German TJ, in as conclusive a manner as is possible from=20 indirect evidence, that the TJ is no hoax. Korff's contention to the=20 contrary (p. 84) is seen to lack any substance. Korff and the Hasenb=F6hl-Langenberg photographs=20 One of Meier's color photos from this series is among the most famous, the= =20 beautiful "sun-glint" photo showing a pair of golden rays from the setting= =20 sun reflecting off the beamship (Lee and Brit Eiders, UFO=85 Contact from= the=20 Pleiades, Vol. 2, p. 38), of which Korff (p. 205) shows a black-and-white=20 version. ("Beamship" is what the Pleiadeans told Meier they informally=20 called their craft.) The other reason l've selected this from among the=20 photos Korff discusses is that in his first booklet attempting to debunk the= =20 Meier case (The Meier Incident: The Most Infamous Hoax in Ufology; 1981) he= =20 first suggested (Korff, 1981, p. 8, middle) that the photo was hoaxed by=20 being a (small model) UFO in front of a real deciduous tree. But then on the= =20 same page he suggested (Korff, 1981, p. 8, lower) that it was hoaxed by a=20 different method: overlaying the negative of a model UFO photo in front of a= =20 featureless background on top of a negative of a photo of scenic background,= =20 and combining the two images within an enlarger (double-print technique). It= =20 is even more astonishing, therefore, that in the same year Korff had instead= =20 suggested a third method by which Meier was supposed to have hoaxed the=20 photo =96 by attaching a model UFO to a model tree (Korff, "The Billy Meier= =20 Hoax," Frontiers of Science, March-April, 1981, p. 31)! Thus it was of some= =20 interest to see if, some 15 years later, he had settled upon one particular= =20 method. Korff says (p. 203) that he purchased prints of this photo series in 1991=20 from Meier's group for analysis, though, by his own admission elsewhere=20 these are unknown generations (or copies) removed from Meier's original=20 color slides. The Meier photo material Wendelle Stevens and his team=20 utilized for their analyses, on the other hand, was 2nd-generation, with=20 Meier's originals being the 1st generation. In early 1978 Stevens obtained= =20 permission from Meier to take some 40 of Meier's color slides to a photo=20 processing shop in the city of Winterhur, Switzerland, with group member=20 Bernadette Brand along to oversee their handling and to safeguard them.=20 These 40 were selected because they appeared to be originals, often showed= =20 foreground or background features, were in good focus, and represented a=20 variety of different sites. Internegatives were made from them , which=20 Stevens still possesses. These internegatives are 2nd generation, except as noted later for a few=20 selected from one series (showing the Swiss jet making passes at the=20 beamship at Schmarbuel-Maiwinkel); that series, Meier noted, came back from= =20 the photo developer's with left-right reversal, indicating to Stevens that= =20 someone had made emulsion-to-emulsion duplicates and kept the originals.=20 This series was taken in April of 1976, some 15 months after his Pleiadean= =20 contacts commenced, by which time the Swiss government and perhaps others=20 had taken notice and were trying to intercept his receipt of photos. In addition to these 40 2nd-generation internegatives, Stevens a little=20 later similarly had about a dozen positive-to-positive prints (color slide= =20 to positive print) made from further of Meier's originals. These were also= =20 2nd generation. (The preceding information is from Stevens, personal=20 correspondence of April 14 and May 15, 1995). Thus the analysis team under= =20 Stevens had the best possible photo material to analyze short of the=20 originals themselves, which Meier had finally learned to retain close=20 control over if he wished them not to disappear. Stevens had the 2nd-generation internegative of the Hasenb=F6hl-Langenberg= =20 sun-glint photo laser-scanned and enlarged. The resulting photo clearly=20 showed a forked branch of a deciduous tree 48 meters away from the camera to= =20 pass in front of the side of the beamship to the viewer's far left. In the= =20 black-and-white reproduction of Stevens' Preliminary Investigation Report=20 (p. 352), however, this is scarcely discernible, the contrast between the=20 dark underside of the craft and the shaded tree branches having been very=20 weak originally. Korff, on the other hand, claims from certain computer image processing=20 techniques applied to his print that the UFO was in front of the tree=20 (Korff, p. 203). Thus of the three different methods of hoaxing he had=20 earlier suggested for this one photograph, he has settled for the image=20 being of a model UFO in front of a real tree. From the somewhat degraded=20 quality of Korff's higher-generation print, the contrast between the tree=20 branches and the underside of the craft was totally washed out. A negative= =20 or reversal of this print was then made in which the underside of the UFO=20 craft appeared to be relatively light (Korff, Fig. 73) instead of dark. Then= =20 after that image had been enhanced so as to create a heavy line along=20 certain edges of the UFO and of the tree's branches, the resulting image=20 gives the impression to the unaware observer that any tree branches in front= =20 of the craft ought to have shown up against the apparently light background= =20 of the craft's underside. I find this to be a highly misleading analysis=20 designed with only one end in mind =96 to produce the desired impression= upon=20 the naive reader. In his Fig. 75 Korff presents an image of the same photo enhanced in some=20 manner that displays a line segment off to one side and inclined 20=B0 from= =20 the horizontal without either end being attached to anything, and never=20 passing closer than a beamship diameter away from the craft. No such flaw=20 was present in Stevens' 2nd-generation photo. It could not have represented= =20 a tethering line for suspending a model, as suggested by Korff, since there= =20 was nothing to hold up either end of the line segment despite the tension=20 its linearity indicates it would have been under, no nodule on this line=20 segment that might indicate a point of connection to a model-support tie=20 line, and no indication of any such tie line. Perhaps for reasons like=20 these, Korff allowed (p. 207) that it could have been a scratch on his film. On p. 201 Korff says that Stevens is mistaken in mentioning that Meier had= =20 used up four rolls of 36-exposure film that day (Stevens, Preliminary=20 Investigation Report, p. 343), since only 34 photos are listed in Meier's=20 Photo Index (Verzeichnis) for March 29, 1976. However, this photo occasion= =20 also occurred long after government authorities had learned of Meier's=20 continuing experiences and were therefore surreptitiously trying to tail him= =20 to his contact sites and also gain access to his original photos. It is=20 naive to think that, with contacts of such an unprecedented nature=20 occurring, this would not have happened, and that some of his film would not= =20 have been intercepted by undercover agents. In this case Stevens mentioned= =20 that two rolls were apparently so intercepted, although Meier allows that=20 they might have been lost in processing. Korff fails to let his readers know= =20 about this, and what Stevens had learned about the frequent failure of=20 Meier's rolls of developed film to be returned, though Korff was aware of=20 this explanation. Quite possibly up to 38 more of Meier's photos from this= =20 series were lost due to having been loaned out to interested persons and not= =20 returned, unless Meier or Stevens were off by one roll in the number of=20 rolls expended or intercepted, in which case two photos were subsequently=20 lost. With so many photos on hand, Meier was not very careful with them at= =20 first; only later was a member of Meier's group assigned the task of trying= =20 to gather together all his photos, scattered around the house, and arrange= =20 them in some kind of semi-chronological order and number them, making use of= =20 Meier's log book he took with him on photo contacts. This is an example of a Korff irrelevancy =96 trying to lull the reader into= =20 thinking that the photos are fakes because of a possible error in=20 recollection by Meier or Stevens. The photos speak for themselves. On p. 204 Korff charges, with respect to the sun-glint photo, that Meier had= =20 deliberately aimed his camera into the direction of the setting sun in order= =20 "to use its glare to help obscure any supportive structures or 'strings'=20 that were used to suspend the model." Here he has been fooled, as others=20 have (and even Meier years after the event), into thinking that in the=20 sun-glint photo the eye-catching golden rays of the sun indicate that the=20 craft was right in front of the sun, blocking out all but a piece of its=20 light. However, another surviving photo taken only a few seconds later does= =20 not show the sun or its (reflected) rays. This should not be surprising,=20 since Stevens and his team have researched that photo site as well as the=20 others, noted just where Meier had been standing with his camera, and noted= =20 the line of direction to the tree in question (Stevens , personal=20 correspondence, Aug. 27, 1985). That direction is 218=B0, or southwest (the= =20 west flank of Mt. Auruti, shown in several of the photos, was due south). At= =20 that time of year (March 29th), however, the setting sun lies at an azimuth= =20 of straight west (270=B0) or slightly to the north. The reason, then, why= the=20 sun did not appear in these photos was because it lay in a direction off to= =20 the right of the right-hand edge of the photos. Thus this charge of Korff is= =20 also false. Korff had to be aware of this explanation, which he failed to=20 mention to readers, because it is discussed just 3 pages following where=20 Korff (p. 201) refers to Stevens's Supplementary Investigation Report,=20 namely on the latter's p. 432. This conclusion about the sun's location in these photos is corroborated=20 from the other photos of the series in which the beamship lay in a=20 south-southwesterly direction from Meier's camera, in that its upper extreme= =20 right-hand edge reflected light the most strongly, reflecting the greater=20 amount of sunlight, or scattered sunlight, coming from the western sky than= =20 from the eastern sky. This confirms that the sun lay at a substantial angle= =20 to the right of the direction from the camera to the beamship. More important, what this implies is that in the photo in question, the=20 beamship had caught the rays of the setting sun in some highly reflecting=20 part of its structure, and reflected them towards the camera. The rays do=20 not have the appearance of a camera lens flare, as they appear too=20 systematic and natural. In particular, the flange of the beamship extending= =20 closest towards the camera appears to have split the reflected sunlight into= =20 two streams. Meier's Photo Index indicates that this sun-glint photo, #174.= =20 was taken around 6:02 p.m. At this date/time and latitude, one may calculate= =20 that the sun's elevation above the (sea-level) horizon was 6=B0. This is low= =20 enough for sunlight to have been blocked by hills and trees nearby, and to= =20 cause it to take on a golden tint due to having shined through a large=20 path-length of haze and smog. This explains why the reflected rays are=20 golden in the color photograph. But only if the UFO is a large craft in the= =20 distance could these reflected rays have shown up. The sun's light typically= =20 needs to traverse through a considerable distance (a few tens of meters or= =20 more) in order to show up visibly in what is known within meteorology as=20 "crepuscular rays." If this UFO had been a model up close to the camera, the= =20 optical path length would have been too short for any reflected sun's rays= =20 to become visible, unless the concentration of smog had been as great as in= =20 a fog or in a smoke-filled room. However, the photos indicate that the=20 general visibility was at least 3 kilometers, as hills on the other side of= =20 the Fischenthal-Wald valley were discernible. Most important of all, a close look at the two photos near the time of the= =20 setting sun, along with knowledge of its azimuth, indicates that the entire= =20 foreground was then in shade. The ground itself, and even the deciduous tree= =20 in question and its neighboring trees, had succumbed to the sunset. But=20 farther away and a little higher, some 29 meters beyond the tree, which=20 itself was 48 meters away, the last rays of the setting sun were intercepted= =20 by a reflecting surface of the beamship in Meier's photo #174. Thus again=20 the "UFO" could not possibly have been a model close to the camera. The same conclusion is almost as inescapable from consideration of another= =20 photo of the same series =96 the one shown on p. 36 of Lee & Brit Elders'= UFO=85=20 Contact from the Pleiades, Vol. 2. There the beamship, smaller in angular=20 size (or farther away as it was approaching), is seen through the branches= =20 of a different tree, one quite close to the camera. This tree's branches=20 were somewhat out of focus, indicating they were only some 2 meters or less= =20 away. However, the beamship was in very good focus and thus had to have been= =20 considerably farther away where nothing existed to support any model; in=20 fact one of the out-of-focus twigs is seen to cross over in front of the=20 well-focussed beamship image. Looking at the series of 34 photos overall,=20 one may examine the beamship's image under a magnifying glass from its first= =20 appearance in the earliest photo when it was just a speck in the haze,=20 occupying 0.001 % of the area of the photograph, to the sun-glint photo=20 where it occupies 0.2 % of the area, an increase by a factor of 200, and=20 find no reason whatsoever to suspect that it was not exactly the same object= =20 in each photo. None of the above photographic findings is surprising if Meier's ET contacts= =20 are treated as the reality they appear to be. Yet, apparently because he is= =20 unable to seriously consider this possibility, Korff has failed to look=20 into, or report on, the above evidence validating the genuineness of this=20 series of 34 beamship photos. I find his repeated omission of the evidence= =20 supporting the reality of Meier's ET contacts in his book to be just as=20 serious a breach of competent investigative analysis as are his false=20 claims, distortions and innuendo. The apparent genuineness of Meier's=20 contact experiences, photos and movie film obviously adds support to the=20 genuineness of the Talmud of Jmmanuel, and both aspects together explain the= =20 intense fervor exhibited by detractors of the Meier case who have attempted= =20 to debunk it over the past 15 years.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 01:22:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:50:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:38:12 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:21:59 -0500 >>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI ======================= I originally wrote, >>> I reiterate, Greer is backed by big money. If he is "investing" >>> anything, it's someone elses $. No one but Greer and a few of >>> his cronies know how much was spent and with whom. I expect >>> some accountability from people who *designate themselves* >>> (my representative) in front of elected officials. Doesn't >>> this bother anyone else? He set himself up as 'the peoples >>> rep[resentative' in Washington! ======================== Rebecca responded, >>KUDOS to John Velez! You have said it beautifully. I certainly do >>not wish to have Steven Greer and his ilk representing me! ===================================================================== Hi Henny, hi All, Henny, I'm going to respond to your comments because there are many Europeans on this list, and just in case any of them share your "Hollywood" ideas about Americans and their "values" I offer this response to you for your (and their) edification. Henny wrote, >About Greer. >Greer may not be the electorally chosen representative >of the UFO field, but I can't remember any election. That was one of my points Henny. Had Greer openly solicited the participation of others in the field he would have garnered much more support than he has even now. Voting on things and including others' oppinions and points of view is what "ideally" democracy is about. Dictators appoint themselves, that's not how we like to see things done on our end of the rock. >What Greer does is on his own initiative, because he >thinks what he does is important. That's an open question Henny. I'm still trying to find out if he thinks what he's doing is important, or if he's trying to "be" important. That's an important issue. >Greer on his own has achieved what politicians in Washington >are listening to him and for the first time in 30 years >there is a serious chance of open Congressional hearings >on UFOs. This is more than 500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, >15,000 UFO researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day have >achieved. Henny we *all* stand on the shoulders of those who came before us! Greer has added nothing new to 'ufology'. In fact the very data that he presents in Washington came from the sweat and dedication of those very individuals you so casually dismiss as impotent, and as having contributed nothing. Shame on you! >Those who have problems with big money should consider this. >What Greer understands is that the UFO field does not >need more evidence, more cases and more debate, but more money >and more influence. You're kidding right? This is a patently uninformed remark if you're serious! If it's a joke, I'm not laughing. >In the real world, evidence does not matter, influence does. Yeah Henny, money talks, bulls**t walks! It's partially due to attitudes such as this that the world is so screwed up. What's that old saying about ignorance and keeping your mouth shut and how you erase all doubt if you don't? You know the one. <G> >Political influence in Washington does not >come from books at Barnes and Noble, but from bringing >big money to the table. You may be 100% correct, but as an American I want to tell you what *I* think of influence peddling, and all the money peddlers in Washington. Those who perpetuate and support such a system are among *the* lowest forms of human life on the planet. It is because of them, the powerful and rich special interest groups that the air we breath is filthy, the natural resources and the people of my beloved land are being raped, and the life blood of this country (the working stiffs) are mostly suffering, struggling and out of work. Buying your way though life is not what we're all about Henny. In spite of behavior to the contrary by some of our elected representatives. >Anyone who has followed the last presidential election campaign in >the US knows this. I'm an American "anyone" Henny. I didn't vote for Bubba! I think Bubba and Hillary belong behind bars along with all the others who share their moral values and outlook on life. Then maybe we can backtrack and put that gutter snake Bush into a cell along side the Clintons! They can swap Hillary for 'Kools' in the cell block every night after that for all I care. >This is an environment where fancy dinners, limo's with >drivers and quid pro quo are part of everyday life. You just listed all of the things that "most Americans" think is wrong with the way things are done in Washington DC! Don't you find your own words offensive? I did! Or do you think that it's okay to do business that way? BTW, you forgot to mention prostitution! Some of these distinguished gentlemen of wealth, power, and influence that you admire so much have the morals and virtues of common thieves and muggers. But then I guess you'd just say that's okay too. After all, "Money talks,..." >By letting himself be backed by big money, Greer at least >shows that he is a man of the world and understands this. I'd like to take all of these "men of the world" as you call them, and roll them all into one big smelly dungball and send them all to make their little deals and run their little scams by the icelake on the south pole of the Moon. If you're a "man of the world" there's always room for one more on the shuttle. <G> >About Greer's secrecy, here again he shows that he knows >how the world works, You ought to check your "world view" out Henny, it really leaves an awful lot to be desired. Life is not a "James Bond" movie! >These seem to me the real concerns that UFO researchers >should have about Greer. You're wrong. Until this guy and his organisation start acting like a "part of the UFO community" he can't expect much in the way of support from grassroots guys like me. I don't trust him based on his own past words and actions. Tell me why in hell I should trust him now! The point of your e-mail seems to be, "Hey man, this cat is a real swinger who has a lot of the right grease and knows how to play the game, we should all just jump on the bandwagon and back his play" Sorry, that pooch don't hunt. I've heard the 'players' downtown use that same rap! Still sounds stupid to me no matter how you dress it up. If Greer wants the support and the honest backing of the people, he's going to have to do it the old fashioned way,... he'll have to EARN IT! (God, I've been watching too many Smith/Barney commercials!) <G> "Love all, trust few" John Velez (Speaking strictly for myself) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 [In_Search_Of] Klass This One Fortean Buddies! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:53:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:53:14 -0400 Subject: [In_Search_Of] Klass This One Fortean Buddies! A week has passed since the Fortean Unconvention in London, England. Since nary a word has been keyed about it by any UpDates subscriber, here are some from the In Search Of list. ebk _____________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:48:40 +1000 From: wlmss@PEG.APC.ORG Subject: [In_Search_Of] KLASS THIS ONE FORTEAN BUDDIES! We are "In Search Of . . ." answers together. Each posting must reflect personal respect, integrity, honesty, and full disclosure of information. ---------- KLASS THIS ONE, FORTEAN BUDDIES I was a lad of 10 in Papua New Guinea when the flying saucers came. Everyone was talking about them. I found half a dozen or so books on the topic in the Wau public library and read them. There was nothing new about the discs seen hovering and flying all over the country. Any good UFO book from the 1950's recounts similar craft being seen in the Americas, Britain and just about everywhere else. Australia has had her share of them. The best case was at Boianai. Thirty-eight people watched ufo's for many hours on June 28, 1959 and on the next day. At times a disc-shaped craft was hovering in broad daylight just 100 meters up. Four humanoid figures were seen to come out and walk about on the deck of the ufo while a powerful blue beam was emitted at an angle up into the sky. The case is extremely well documented. Dr Hyneck came out here in person and checked out 6 witnesses in 1973. And it was only one of many sightings in PNG, one of many thousands from around the world. It stands out only for its detail and the number of credible witnesses. Thirty-eight! They stopped doing it because some of our leaders determined on an "attack on sight" strategy to capture their technology. It would be manifestly out of character for those types not to do so during the post-WWII culture of the time. Now the Others must needs keep out of the way, come at night, operate stealthily. But never forget that they came openly. They exchanged friendly waves at Boianai with Father Gill and the other people gathered there. Shouted invitations to land were politely ignored. Naturally there is the potential for outrage in the world at the men who gave the order to attack friendly visitors from - from somewhere else. No more easter eggs, kiddies. So to protect the top brass and their fellow travellers, people like Crass Klass are employed to spin yarns to the gullible. And good shows like X-files are "tamed" and better shows like "Dark Skies" get axed. So it goes. I have seen the debate Skeptic Klass left in his wake at the recent annual Fortean UnConvention held in London. It seems he was charming to the point of a bit of deep throat kissing with a model of an alien's head. But you are sure to see that yourself someday. Klass appears to have UnConvinced many of the Forteans of the reality of these flying machines and their weird high tech occupants. It seems that they are no longer Venus or Weather Balloons, but "Earthlights". Well ho ho, I say. They might also be swamp gas, if the skeptics have anything to do with it. Tens of thousands of visits have happened around the world, many of them nearly as sharp and clear and definite and real as Boiamai. How could a bunch of otherwise intelligent people be led up the garden path by this Klass in 1997? Would he get away with it at a U.S. UFO meet? Congratulations to Bud Hopkins, who opted to have no part in what would have become a one-sided latter-day inquisition at the hands of this sophisticated liar. For Klass knows better, he is an aviation special- ist and thousands of pilots have also seen UFO's. Congratulations to the organizers of the meeting too. In these days the old debunkers are growing thin on the ground. Now the public has had a chance to see how the U.S. Government and its numerous defacto Puppet States have managed to keep the lid on this, the ultimate scandal, for so long. Even forteans can be roundly duped, as happened here. I wonder if the spirit of old Charlie Fort was at the convention. He would have laughed his head off at this extraordinary back somersault to the bad old days of Deceit, Denial and Deception, all swallowed by some of the best of Britain's eccentric elite. Never mind discs hovering in the sky, look to the Fortan Unconvention of 1997. This mass deception will itself be remembered in history as an outstanding fortean phenomeon. Lawrie Williams
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Eduard "Billy" Meier on George Green From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:46:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:53:26 -0400 Subject: Eduard "Billy" Meier on George Green This was found at: http://web.eunet.ch/figu/FIGUHP65.HTM I get the biggest kick out of this one. Imagine, George Green's=20 "Hatonn" isn't an honest person. Really? Go figure. <g> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D George Green=20 and Phoenix Source Publishers Inc. We, the members of FIGU, vehemently distance ourselves on our own behalf,=20 and in the name of the Pleiadians, from George Green=92s false and deceitful= =20 schemes. He has translated and published the Meier Talmud Jmmanuel in a=20 distorted format with untruthful interpretations, without ever having=20 obtained permission from any of us. The members of FIGU, as well as the=20 Pleiadians and entities from the ARAHAT ATHERSATA and PETALE levels also=20 distance themselves in every conceivable way from the lies regarding=20 purported transmissions from higher spirit levels that were published by=20 Phoenix Source Publishers Inc. This also applies to the prevaricated,=20 concocted contact personages DHARMA, SANANDA, JUDAS ISCARIOTH, MICHAEL,=20 GERMAIN, ASHTAR, ADONAI, GYEORGOS CERES HATONN and THE MASTERS, among=20 others. The alleged transmissions are nothing more than malicious=20 falsifications and perversions of facts that have absolutely nothing in=20 common with the truth. We, the members of FIGU, the Pleiadians, and the=20 ARAHAT ATHERSATA and PETALE levels, distance ourselves from each and every= =20 one of George Green=92s written concoctions and from those who may= collaborate=20 with him and/or other writers who publish fraudulent contact information=20 including: PROGRAMMING, PITFALLS AND PUPPY-DOG TALES by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn CHAPARRAL SERENDIPITY or THINGS FROM UNDER THE BUSHES by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn THE BEST OF TIMES; THE WORST OF TIMES by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn TO ALL MY CHILDREN AS THE WORLD TURNS by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn THE LAST GREAT PLAGUE UPON MAN: AIDS AND RELATED MURDER TOOLS by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn ULTIMATE PSYCHOPOLITICS, MASS MIND CONTROL & THE GLOBAL CONTROL SYSTEM by Ceres THE BEAST AT WORK by Ceres AND THEY CALLED HIS NAME IMMANUEL =96 I AM SANANDA by Sananda & Judas Iscarioth SPACE GATE: THE VEIL REMOVED by Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn THE RAINBOW MASTERS by the Masters PHOENIX OPERATOR-OWNER MANUAL by Sananda, Michael, Germain & Hatonn SURVIVAL IS ONLY THE FEET FROM HELL by Sananda SPIRAL TO ECONOMIC DISASTER by Hatonn FROM HERE TO ARMAGEDDON by Ashtar SATAN=92S DRUMMERS: THE SECRET BEAT OF EVIL SIPAPU ODYSSEY by Dorusiika Maerd PRIVACY IN A FISHBOWL by Hatonn UFO CRASH AT AZTEC: A WELL KEPT SECRET THE BRIDGE TO INFINITY-HARMONIC 371244. Bruce Cainie CONVERSATIONS WITH NOSTRADAMUS. Volume I etc. etc. FIGU =96 =92Billy=92 Eduard Albert Meier Semjase-Silver-Star-Center CH-8495 Schmidr=FCti ZH / Switzerland
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Eduard "Billy" Meier on his Ex-Wife's claims From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:38:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:53:43 -0400 Subject: Eduard "Billy" Meier on his Ex-Wife's claims This article was found at: http://web.eunet.ch/figu/FIGUHP77.HTM I hardly doubt any of this will change any long established views on either side, Pro or Con..but I feel it's important to get BOTH=20 sides of the argument documented on the List seeing as how=20 we've gone into the Meier case quite a bit in the last few weeks. As always, I don't make up this stuff, nor write it, just find it and post it. You are welcome to debate the article, validate or refute,=20 have a hissy fit or just enjoy the inevitable fireworks it will no doubt produce. Getcher popcorn ready folks. <g> Don =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D New Defamations and Intrigues=20 A reliable source has informed me, "Billy" Eduard Albert Meier, that=20 wanna-be-UFOlogist Luc B=FCrgin has contacted my ex-wife, Kalliope Meier.= From=20 this information one can deduce that new defamations and intrigues, based on= =20 "creditable" statements by Kalliope Meier-Zafiriou, will be forthcoming.=20 These defamations and intrigues are to be expected from her statements,=20 which Luc B=FCrgin, along with Kal K. Korff and others like him, cetainly= will=20 disseminate if they do get involved with Kalliope Meier's slander. She began= =20 spreading libelous claims from the very beginning of my, "Billy's", mission= =20 in 1975. Hence, when she stated in court on September 20, 1996, "I have=20 never believed in this thing since it began," she was in fact slandering my= =20 mission and the integrity of my person from the start, and even managing to= =20 sway others to her viewpoint through her defamations. She now has operated= =20 in this manner for approximately twenty years. To visitors, however, as well= =20 as to friends and acquaintances who were on my side, she made it appear as= =20 though she was defending my mission and me. It is plain to see that all of= =20 this was merely a show, for in reality she not only harmed me and my mission= =20 but also the entire "Community of Interests for the Fringe and Spiritual=20 Sciences and Ufological Studies" (FIGU) whenever she could, causing major=20 difficulties, indeed, significant financial damage. Judging from reports by= =20 a reliable source, it appears she is now planning to continue her slander=20 and intrigues. All of this is motivated by her endless hatred and=20 vindictiveness for never being capable of taking my place and playing a=20 leading role =96 something she always craved. Kalliope Meier-Zafiriou has attempted since 1975 to portray me as a liar,=20 hoax and crook to all those people who believed her slander and fell for her= =20 perfect acting skills. A number of them were swayed by her, even some who=20 used to call themselves "good" friends of mine and who had previously been= =20 allowed to witness special events related to contacts with the=20 Pleiadians/Plejarans =96 events from which others are normally excluded and= =20 denied from witnessing for an entire lifetime! Even now or, possibly, now=20 more than ever, Kalliope Meier will not refrain from disseminating=20 defamations about me, my work and my mission =96 which are gleefully picked= up=20 and embraced by all those who are envious or hostile toward me, for whatever= =20 reason. Various individuals are already eagerly believing her new defamatory= =20 story about UFO models I purportedly had built from lids of barrels bewtween= =20 1980-1982 to produce fraudulent photos with them =96 although we can prove= not=20 having purchased these lids until 1986! While certain portions of the=20 Pleiadian/Plejaran "Wedding Cake Ships" do look remarkably like the lids=20 from such barrels (as Kalliope Meier-Zafiriou suddenly discovered in 1995=20 when she found a newspaper photograph in her constant search for such=20 items), Ishwish Ptaah offered a very plausible explanation, which you can=20 read in the 254th contact report from November 28, 1995. It is not reprinted= =20 here due to its scope. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that there will be renewed defamations= =20 and intrigues regarding "Billy" Eduard Albert Meier and matters concerning= =20 the mission and Pleiadian/Plejaran contacts =96 alas this time through=20 Kalliope Meier-Zafiriou's collaboration =96 and as publicized on the= Internet=20 in 1995 by "Billy" Meier's enemy Kal K. Korff. The lies and slander in=20 Korff's book have been refuted with the help of qualified evidence by=20 Professor J. Deardorff. Korff stated on the Internet at the time that he=20 knows of "Billy's" and Kalliope Meier-Zafiriou's divorce (probably from=20 Kalliope herself) and that, after the divorce, she would be willing to=20 reveal "Billy's" fraudulent activities as they relate to UFO photos and UFO= =20 contacts. This is especially peculiar if one is aware of the fact that=20 Kalliope and other witnesses =96 whom she influenced to the point of even=20 changing their opinion =96 were physically present when Pleiadians/Plejarans= =20 performed flight, beamship and whirring sound demonstrations as well as=20 other marvels. The witnesses were able to see everything with their own eyes= =20 and hear it all with their own ears. Apparently there are no limits to=20 hatred and vindictiveness, and for this reason these facts are now=20 besmirched, although several witnesses who confirmed them have remained=20 steadfast in their testimonies to this day, and will do so in the future. "Billy" Eduard A. Meier
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 New Roswell Info From: Jim Griebel <71541.2124@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Apr 97 23:29:31 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:54:22 -0400 Subject: New Roswell Info >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:06:04 +0200 >Subject: Fwd: New Roswell Info >Everybody just a little interested in the Roswell incident ought to >know the author Kevin Randle and Captain O.W. "Pappy" Henderson, who >was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, assigned to Roswell Army >Air Field. He claimed to have flown strange debris and alien bodies >from Roswell to Wright Field, but can anybody shed further light on >this item forwarded from "alt.alien.research"? Given that Henderson was a pilot, and the message seems to have him "testing material" from the Roswell crash, it's a little hard to see how. Given that he's dead, it's harder to see how he could be "testing and documenting his research." OTOH, Henderson's wife Sappho has told some researchers that her husband kept a fragment of metal from the crash, and it was probably with his personal stuff, which was stored in the family garage after his death. Last I heard she was still refusing to let researchers sift through all this looking for it. Maybe what this message is trying to say is that the Colonel, whoever he is, is a contact with somebody else who's laid hands on this? Now that'd be interesting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:53:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen At 04:20 PM 4/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >To quote Dennis Miller, I don't want to get off on a rant here, >but... >In light of Meier's proponents here, I suppose there are those >among us who would make the case that George Adamski's remarkably >similar contactee accounts (also with photos!) are equally valid >-- even though, through the *real* scientific discoveries made by >the widely lambasted (by UFO True Believers) Carl Sagan, >disproved Adamski's Venusian bunkum once and for all. I for one, have not seen any "evidence" that Carl Sagan disproved anything regarding Adamski's photos, 8 mm color film, etc. I know that many want to think it has been disproved. However, one must remember, that those photos and color films were made in 1952, etc. There was not the sophisticated computer techniques available back then to reproduce those type photo's and films. Not only that, but very similar UFO pictures were taken of the Adamski type UFO in many different countries for many years afterwar. The movie footage which Madalyn ??? (can't remember her last name) has, showing the UFO hovering, and the three ball landing gear alternatley lowering and retracting as it does so, as well as the ufo hovering by a large tree at the end of her driveway, which later lifts up and flies off, was typical of what an object powered by some type of magnetic field effect propulsion system should react. The movement of the two black flat disks in unison back and forth across the field in fast motion, also is intriging. I will admit that I am no photo or video expert, yet, I do have quite a bit of experience with video. I have heard the stories of Adamski using vacuum cleaner tops to make his UFOs. I have seen those type vacuums in my youth, and I find it hard to accept that contention. It was also suggested that the photos were taken of a chicken brooder and passed off as a UFO. There is never a shortage of "answers" to these type cases. I know that the last I heard, and It has been several years, even the U.S. Air Force could not prove the Adamski Photos were fakes. Yet, they cast considerable doubt on the character of Adamski. I wrote to George Adamski myself, and received a reply from him. I still have that note which he sent me and signed. I have also talked to other investigators, who lived in that area at the time who went to the place where Adamski allegedly had his meeting with the Venusean...this person was impressed with the information and the location where the meeting took place. I have talked to several people over the years, most of whom have passed on now, who thought that there was indeed some truth in many of Adamski's stories. We don't have to look for those who cannot accept the idea that there are many people, whom they consider inferrior to themselves, who may have had face to face contacts with Alien Intelligences. It is preposterous to these people to consider such an idea. If these aliens were real and were going to contact people, they would surely contact a higher intelligent human, such as themselves. Since they can't have these experiences themselves, they therefore deny the possibility that it actually happened. In fact they make it their personal mission to totally discredit the person in question and make that person as unpopular and uncredulous as possible. It doesn't matter if it is George Adamski, Billy Meier, or Travis Walton...these people cannot accept the reality of those stories. "Hell, if I can't have an experience of that kind, and all these little nobodies make these claims, they must be nuts. They must be halucinating or are experiencing memory recall of sexual or physical abuses by their parents, grandparents, school teachers, etc....There is no way these people could be experiencing Alines...because, there is no proof that Aliens exist. We are the only known life in the Universe. Just ask Carl Sagan, or James Oberg, etc..." Yes, these are some of the arguements which these researchers use to make their arguemnets. They also point out what they consider to be the rogue or fringe researchers as examples of what's wrong with the Ufo phenomena. No, these people don't rebuke the material and cases because they don't think there is any truth to them, they debunk these cases because they "can't seem to have the experience." >[If there are any appreciable difference between Meier and >Adamski's tales, please let me know.] Both allegedly met beautiful Human type beings. Adamski allegedly rode in the Venusean UFO to the MOON and Venus, as well as some of the other planets in this solar system. Meier supposedly rode in the Beam Ships throug time and space... to the past and to the future...to the edge of our Universe, etc. I know it all sounds so hokey, but I wasn't there...I don't know if it is possible or not...I simply don't know! I don't believe either. I just let it lay. What turns up eventually turns up. Why waste my energy on argueing the point? Meier did write letters to various scientists in the late 70's warning of global atmospheric destruction, but none of them took him seriously...BUT, today we take the idea of depleting OZONE in the Atmosphere and the earth heatng up, very seriously. Meier talked of the Pleadeians talking of using tacheyons <sp?> as a means of traveling hundreds of light years in Null-time. He said the Pleaeians could make the jump from their world to our earth in just over eight hours. I don't know if this is true or not. I am not a physicist. I do know that tacheyons<sp> were pure speculation as a theory in 1975-80, but are now more or less accepted as a possible means of energy which can travel faster than the speed of light. If we had the technology to capture this energy, and adapt it to power our spacecraft, we would do so. With every passing day, our science moves closer and closer to duplicating many of the contentions of science which presented itself to the earth in the late 40's. Yet, Meier claims the Pleadeians have had that technology for many thousands of years. Yet, he says the Pleadeians told him that we could catch up in about 300 years, if we applied ourselves to developing the technology. That means to catch up to their level of technology of the physical sciences, not necessarily the spiritual sciences. Now, there is a key word for those who wish to lable me....<G> >If the Pleiedians (or whatever ET species) wanted to make contact >with the human race, they could do so in a more rational, less >ambiguous, and much more productive manner than Meier's purported >aliens have done. Here again, we presume to think like an alien. I don't know what makes us think that aliens would think anything like us. Just as we don't think like our "young children" these aliens, capable of light travel, or dimensional travel, would look on our opinions about their existence and technology the same way we would consider the advice of a three year old, on how to fix a leaking faucet. Here, I am also presuming to "think like an alien," which makes my opinion "faulty," from the very inceptionl. None of us can possibly know how they think. What they might show a contactee or an abductee, of their intelligence, would be totally different from what they actually know. Why would a superiour race want to educate humanity on their life style, and technology, when they have observed how quickly we seem to addapt to new technology and incorporate into our own lives. No, I still don't think humans have cracked the surface of how aliens think, inspite of the supposed interaction between them. >Frankly, I expect more than half-baked aphorisms from "Masters of >the Stars." Humans are quite capable of producing half-baked >aphorisms (which are the only "teachings" that Meier has passed >along from his Pleiedians) on our own, thank you. Then maybe you expect to much. Is that possible? Maybe that is why you are so disappointed. >I do find it odd that some have attempted to apply the tools of >human reason to prove the most obviously unreasonable >suppositions -- in this case, the proponents of the Meier saga. >These attempts ultimately fall short despite the apparent >vocabulary of reason, just as attempts to apply reason to prove >the inherently unreasonable suppositions of religious beliefs >invariably fail. Virtually any idea or supposition can be denied, or disproved, if one is so inclined to do so. No matter how fundamentally sound the facts may be. Disbelief is one of the strongest motivators there is...Not necessarily the strongest, but at least a strong one. Heck, the MILITRY INTELLIGENCE and Political comittees use the science of DENIAL to perfection...the deny, misdirect and then deny again. But, they do not necessarily lie. Yet, from their point of view, if lying is necessary to protect their point of view, then they will lie. They will also discredit and in some cases cause accidents which take human lives. >How is this different from fundamentalist religious dogma that >can answer any question of inconsistency or irrationality with >the word "faith"? So, by the nature of the question are you implying that you are an Agnostic or Athiest? Or are you simply a Non-Fundamentalist? Faith is nothing more than a starting point on a journey in to the unknown. Without Faith, there will be no journey. What I repeadly see through all of these threads is "FEAR." Fear of what? The Unknown? Ok, so we fear the Unknown...but we can use that fear as fuel to power us on to new discoveries. Never take away a person's right to fear...they must embrace it and use it's power. Until they can grow into maturity, they must fear. >In my opinion, such "faith" all-too-often places its adherents at >the mercy of con-men and/or crackpots. Would anyone here argue >that ufology is not the domain of legions of con-men and >crackpots? Yes, this happens...but it is by trial and error that these people learn to trust their own self knowledge. If there were no Con-men, you wouldn't need to have written this message. Your statment shows how more astute you are than those you write about. How many times did it take for you to be conned to reach this level of understanding? We must allow those who have not yet learned, to do so in their own time...even if that time requires eternity... >As with any religion, the zeal to realize the dream of contact >with non-human intelligence has blinkered many to this cold hard >reality of human behavior: for many, a glorious fantasy is >preferable to a dull reality. So it has always been. Thus the dreamers and poets of the past and prsent write of the folly of human action and reaction. Yet each action is a step toward knoweldge. Why take this right to learn away from any person, needing the lesson? Nothing is lost, all will be experienced to fullness at some point. >The con-men are only too eager to cash-in on the crackpots -- who >in turn seem eager in the certainty of their faith (so dumb they >think they're smart) to be victimized. It's a vicious cycle that >invariable results in "feedback" that obscures the signal for the >noise. Ultimately, it is those who are conned rather than those who con who gain from the experience. Each experience is a lesson... learned or otherwise. The noise is the easiest to preceive...but, the signal is always there for those who percist in the search for it. It is not easy to attain the Golden Fleece of Sinbad, or the Holy Grail of Perceval, in the Authurian Tradition. Nor is it suppose to be. It is not the attainment of the goal which is so important as the search for it. Once perceval found the Holy Grail, in the Grail Temple, that journey ended...it was over...Now what? He returned to King Authur and resumed his place as a Knight of the Round Table...note the symbolism of the never ending circle in the Round Table. Each Ending, is a New Beginning. >We've seen it right here, haven't we? Yes, you have. And YOU will continue to see it...why? Because it is what you are looking for...It is your Holy Grai...and it belongs to all of those who percist in belittling the "simple faith" of those who have not yet given up on the reality of "things hoped for, but not seen." >It is this sad fact that presents the greatest difficulty to >those who are quietly working to make progress in understanding >this vexing, and possibly important, phenomenon. > >Regards, > >Vince Sad is the correct term here. But that sadness is not caused by the attitudes of the "believers," so much as by the attitude of the "faithless." I tell you, they have their own reward. The TRUTH IS. But, to many have "scales" on their eyes, thus blinding them to that "TRUTH." I am the first to admit that I don't know anything. I only "hope" that someday, I shall." My "faith" in the "Unseen" keeps me glued to the path of foreverness. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:31:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:50:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >About Greer. >Greer may not be the electorally chosen representative >of the UFO field, but I can't remember any election. >What Greer does is on his own initiative, because he >thinks what he does is important. It has often been said of this genre that we "eat our own", and this thread serves to prove that point. Unfortunately, there are times when some may feel that it's necessary. >Greer on his own has achieved that politicians in Washington >are listening to him and for the first time in 30 years >there is a serious chance of open Congressional hearings >on UFOs. This is more than 500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, >15,000 UFO researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day have >achieved. Not be too much of a "doubting Thomas", but do you have any proof that something is being "achieved". Your charactorization regarding the fact that nothing has been done in 30 years is not entirely accurate, but I will admit that nothing substantial has occurred. On the other hand I don't seem to recall that the "500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, 15,000 UFO researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day" were truly designed to spark action by the Government. There is an impression here that this mass of information is cohesive and provides proof of its premise, when in fact it is designed primarily to promote a particular viewpoint among those already involved in the genre. Everyone has their "story" to tell, and factors that relate tend to be very general. >Those who have problems with big money should consider this. >What Greer understands is that the UFO field does not >need more evidence, more cases and more debate, but more money >and more influence. In the real world, evidence does not matter, >influence does. Political influence in Washington does not >come from books at Barnes and Noble, but from bringing >big money to the table. Anyone who has followed the last >presidential election campaign in the US knows this. >This is an environment where fancy dinners, limo's with >drivers and quid pro quo are part of everyday life. Oh, great! Another headline in the Washington Post related to "big money" influencing Congress. . . . .<g> Sorry, but I have to disagree. Money doesn't really buy much of anything in Washington directly, but needs to be spent at the "grass root" level to influence the electorate. Representatives respond to polls and constituent concerns (believe it or not). The money you mention in the last election was spent by political parties to gain votes, and that certainly doesn't relate to what Greer is doing here. Now if he were to begin an effort now to finance the Congressional campaigns of some 1988 challangers for the House, that would be a different matter. BTW, more than 90% of the Members drive themselves to work on the "Hill" every day, and if they get picked up, it's usually by one of their own paid staffers. Most mid-level managers in the US are paid more than Members of the U.S. House receive each year, and they don't have to put up with the scrutiny that those who seek election must endure. I'm not trying to evoke sympathy, but there are severe misconceptions contained in your statement. >By letting himself be backed by big money, Greer at least >shows that he is a man of the world and understands this. >If Greer is only getting halfway in pushing politicians >to open hearings on UFOs I personally don't care whether >he flies a Learjet, a Gulfstream or a Concorde. >About Greer's secrecy, here again he shows that he knows >how the world works, because cooperation from key witnesses >who had responsible positions in the armed forces comes >only when anonimity is provided as long as possible. >Greer has recently announced a presentation about the >Washington events on May 1 in Orange County (as posted >on this list). If Greer was fully backed by "big money", he wouldn't have had to put our press releases on the "net" to announcement his intentions. Those releases were designed to give his effort credibility and allow him to seek financial support for the effort. I have no idea how many people he came to Washington with, who he invited, and how many he may or may not have flown in for the sessions. A call to the Westin Hotel (I think that's the name) in Washington during the event resulted in a response that the Hotel management didn't know of any "Briefing" that was being held, and the Washington Post didn't mention a peep about anything (of course, that's not too surprising). Yes, assuming the event took place as announced, Greer and his organization are spending money, which is more than most of us do to any great degree. But his decision to announce each step of his process on the "net", and his rally in Orange County to garner support, are clearly designed to garner support (which I translate to donations of time, materials, or money). If he had the financial clout that he needs, he wouldn't be taking his show on tour and would concentrating on gathering statements and putting that information before the elected officials that he claims to have contacted. >The problems I have with Greer are: >1) he thinks many abductions are done by covertly operating >secret agencies. Well, here in Europe abductions are just as >numerous and follow the same patterns. Are American secret >agencies operating here or are European secret agencies >copying the operations of their American counterparts? I >don't think so. >2) he thinks that remote viewing is scientifically valid, >whereas Dr. Courtney Brown's remote viewing group (of Farsight >Institute) has demonstrated it is not, because they saw a >spaceship with aliens coming in the wake of Hale-Bopp. >These seem to me the real concerns that UFO researchers >should have about Greer. Then again, if open hearings >are allowed, other UFO experts can step in and set the >record straight. I wonder if Greer offered to take some of the staffers and Members to the Mall on a clear night and "vector in a UFO" for their entertainment. . . .<g> Like just about everything else in Washington, hearings cost money and will have to be justified to the voters. I suspect that the type of hearing being proposed here would be on the scale of "Watergate" or Iran-Contra", rather than "Child Safety Seats" or "Milk Supports". This is not a reflection of their importance, but rather of their purpose. The first two are designed to prove a contention, while the latter two are designed to promote specific legislative needs. Judging from the recent decision to fund hearings into "Campaign Financing", it would be safe to assume that a hearing into the "Government Coverup of [insert your perception of the issue here]" would cost tens of millions of dollars. This would have to be funded by Congress, not a private foundation, and would have to be acceptable to a majority of the voters. I would like to again state that I have no problem with Dr. Greer or his goals in this. Through an increase in the public's awareness of this issue, we can force Congress to at least address the issue. Toward that end, Greer's efforts can help to serve a useful purpose. But his mix of press releases and secrecy seems somewhat strange, and as I follow the discussion of this matter there seems to be the need for a "reality check" in regard to the way many seem to think that politics works in Washington.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Apr 97 10:20:58 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:14:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 16:28:58 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >In light of Meier's proponents here, I suppose there are those >among us who would make the case that George Adamski's remarkably >similar contactee accounts (also with photos!) are equally valid >-- even though, through the *real* scientific discoveries made by >the widely lambasted (by UFO True Believers) Carl Sagan, >disproved Adamski's Venusian bunkum once and for all. Vince, You mean Adamski wasn't REAL??????? You leave me in tears, my whole belief system shattered. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:59:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:13:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:51:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > The problem with it is that Larry Warren was not physically at > Bentwaters for the first two nights of activity. He was in Germany. > He invented a third night so that he could plug himself into the > events. The confusion about the dates of the events come, not > from conflicting testimony of the participants, but from Warren > who was not there. If there was no third night, then there could be > no involvement by Warren. > The Bendwaters case seems to be a solid one, as long as you pay > no attention to Larry Warren. > KRandle > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:08:52 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Dear Kevin, >Even Colonel Halt's memo refers to three nights, him being witness to the >last two I believe. What evidence do you have to show that Larry Warren >was not there on the third night. I would be interested to know. >All the best, >Philip. > Dear Philip: >Please read the Halt memo again. It refers to two nights, not >three. And, I have a copy of a tape in which Halt and Warren >talk about the case. Halt said, "You're aware that the story >you've told or the stories you've told don't fit in with what >I recollect and other witnesses recollect." Warren responds, >"Oh, yes." >Later in the tape Halt talks of two separate nights of the >events. >None of this explains the fact that Warren was not physically >present at Bentwaters on the first two nights and there is no >evidence of a third night without Warren's tale. >KRandle There has always been a considerable amount of confusion relating to the dates of alleged UFO activity in or around RAF Woodbridge in December 1980 (I prefer to give more prominence to RAF Woodbridge as apposed to RAF Bentwaters primarily because Halt was second-in-command at Woodbridge, not Bentwaters). This wasn't helped when Halt gave a lecture for us in Leeds, northern England, on 31 July 1995, at which he mentioned a period of unusual aerial activity off-base had first been reported on Christmas Eve. Things really began happening on 26 December when Halt was called from a Christmas Dinner Dance being held at RAF Woodbridge to check-out reports of lights being observed by security personnel off base. Halt was not at all pleased to have to change from his evening dress uniform into battle fatigues to accompany his men (who, incidentally, held him in very high regard). "The craft was nine feet tall, pyramid-shaped, and had blue lights on the underside and a red light on top. "Three definite marks were found... these were ten feet apart.... and at a height of twenty-five feet, surrounding pine trees were damaged... The desk Sergeant didn't put that in the log." Halt also added: " Lieutenant England then noticed a bright object. I thought it looked like the Sun. An oval shape.... winking... It had a black centre and moved horizontally... and danced about. We chased the object for two minutes... it was visible throughout. "The UFO [his term] appeared to be shedding molten metal... It then exploded... there were five lights... then they vanished." Halt also claimed that an astrophysicist measured readings 25 times greater than normal background radiation near a farmhouse which appeared to be on fire. He also stated, and I quote: "Two rolls of film was also shot, but these didn't come out." Of course, Halt has added much more testimony through interviews given to several TV documentary features i.e., Strange But True, Unsolved Mysteries, Network First etc, but what I found to be of particular interest in 'Left at East Gate' was this passage in Chapter 11: 'Late in February 1985, I [Larry Warren] received a call from Lee Spiegel, a producer with WNBC radio in New York. Lee got my number from [Larry] Fawcett because he had important information to share with me. 'He was very interested in the Bentwaters story and was investigating it for his network. He had just spoken with Colonel Halt! Lee was calling from Tinker AFB in Oklahoma, where Halt was now stationed. Spiegel said he'd interviewed the officer at his home and that Halt had been very candid about the events of December 1980. 'However, when Lee finally asked him about Colonel Wiliams and the beings, Colonel Halt grew defensive, then asked Lee to have his crew step outside. It was at this point the former deputy based commander made some off-the-record comments. 'According to Spiegel, Halt had told him that beings HAD been observed on the third night of UFO activity and that Gorden Williams had been involved that night. He also said that "a lot more" happened than people realised. Colonel Halt would only tell what he knew of the whole story if Congress subpoenaed him to testify.' That is but one little 'gem' contained in 'Left at East Gate' - there are many, many more, including soil sample analysis which throws up some intriguing surprises. Interestingly, Warren does include several military personnel records in the book while stationed at RAF Bentwaters (assigned to 'D' Flight - 81st Security Police Squadron on 2 Dec 1980 - training commenced on 5 Dec 1980). His name appears on other forms which place him with the same unit and location on 15 May 1981. A medical/dental form has him at RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, on 2 Feb 1981. The book will obviously come under intense scrutiny when published here in the UK (I was recently told by the publishers it had been delayed to approximately the first week of June), but my personal feelings are that it does contain valuable and significant revelations which can be put to positive use in the continuing search for clues as to what really transpired within Rendlesham Forest. On a further positive note: 'Left at East Gate' may result in new witnesses coming forward, especially US and UK military personnel who were stationed at RAF Woodbridge & RAF Bentwaters at the time. To my certain knowledge, a key-witness has already done so and is currently talking as if there is no tomorrow. This man's name does not feature in any of the known literature, but he has his service files to back up his story. One further snippet of relevant information: In the mid-eighties, union officials representing prison officers met in Leicester, East Midlands, and during a lunch break the topic of UFOs was discussed (some news item generated this). One official called it all "rubbish" but another officer said: "Do you remember that incident years ago when a UFO came down near an American base? Well, High Point Prison (Suffolk) was put on evacuation alert just before. The [prison] Governer called us into his office and said there was a security alert and be ready to evacuate the prisoners." This story was related by Mr. George Wild, who was then Senior Prison Officer at Armley Prison, Leeds, and the union representative for Armley staff at the time. George told me the story immediately, but said I could not reveal it until he had left the service. Approximately three years later, he did retire and gave me permission to publish the account. Nobody at High Point Prison cared to comment, so it remains uncorroberated for the time being at least. Despite concerted efforts by sceptics and debunkers alike to rubbish the incident, there can be little doubt that something, possibly resembling the importance of 'Roswell' took place in Rendlesham Forest back in December 1980. However, unlike 'Roswell' the witnesses are by comparison very young (many of the security personnel were in their teens) and alive and well today - most resident in the United States. Far be it from to issue a challenge to fellow American researchers, but rather than castigate Larry Warren and Peter Robbins, would it not be far more constructive to locate and isolate some of the individuals whose names appear in their book and invite them to comment? Trust this serves to broaden the debate. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Apr 97 10:21:00 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:15:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:28:51 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! >Bob, >Are we to assume that you perfected this technique _after_ >your early investigations into the 'alien autopsy' footage? Rob, ROFL! Yep, the technique was perfected well after my early investigations into this case. Wanna be an honorary faculty member of the Nearsight Institute?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'The Gods Have Landed' - Info? From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:25:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:19:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'The Gods Have Landed' - Info? No gods in this book.... > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 11:54:57 EDT > From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> > Subject: THE GODS HAVE LANDED Info Wanted > To: UFO UpDates <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> > Anyone here have anything to say one way or the other about a book > called 'The Gods Have Landed: New Religions From Other Worlds', > edited by James Lewis and published by S.U.N.Y. (State University > of New York?) in 1994? The parts of the book about abductions are the usual uninformed skeptical garbage. (As opposed to informed skeptical disagreement!) That is, the writers simply assume that abductions aren't real. They do no research on their own, but just read a sampling of the literature, then compare what they've read to religious or cult beliefs. Not hard to do, and doesn't mean a thing. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:19:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:17:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? A question for Kevin, re Larry Warren: > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:30:50 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Please read the memo carefully. You'll find that there > were only two nights of activity. Halt in various > interviews conducted after the events has said that > there were only two nights, no third. He told Warren > that Warren's tale had combined events on the second > night with events on the mythical third night. <snip> > By the way, Warren claimed to have been up next to the > craft and Halt told him that no one was in front of him > (Halt). We must look at the whole picture and that picture > does not include Larry Warren. Kevin, Why do you think Halt is telling the truth? Maybe more to the point, have you read the book, and seen the transcripts of recent conversations between Halt, Warren, and Peter Robbins? Greg//perplexed because Peter is as honest and thorough as they come
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 'Channel 3' on The Microsoft Network From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:26:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:26:02 -0400 Subject: 'Channel 3' on The Microsoft Network Perhaps the readers who subscribe here via MSN could check out the following and send=20 copies of what they find to UpDates? ebk __________________________________________ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:23:49 +0100 To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Subject: Microsoft Network and Project: watchfire The following message was sent to me by Diana Botsford Hopkins the Forum Manager for Project: watchfire =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Project: watchfire on MSN=D4, The Microsoft Network, takes a serious,=20 unbiased look at all sides of the UFO controversy, in an objective=20 search for the truth. Project: watchfire is a one of a kind webshow combining exclusive=20 reports, a live internet-radio show featuring interviews with the top researchers in the field, UFO news, and science breakthroughs. If 60=20 Minutes were to investigate The X-Files, the result would be Project:=20 watchfire. Utilizing the newest Internet technologies, Project: watchfire allows=20 for instant access to information, live interviews and opinions.=20 Interactive Investigation You Can't Find Anywhere Else. Only Project: watchfire has the resources to present subject matter=20 with professional precision and objective journalism. Project:=20 watchfire puts you in the center of this discussion, with live=20 interviews, online chats and most importantly, your investigative=20 input on select cases. The Truth, From Every Angle Project: watchfire brings together authorities from a number of=20 disciplines and viewpoints. Hosting Project: watchfire is A.J.S.=20 Rayl, respected veteran journalist and author of the yearly cover=20 article for the Nobel Foundation Conference Magazine. Noted guests include UFO expert Jacques Vallee, scientist Bob Lazar,=20 who claims to have helped back engineer an extraterrestrial craft,=20 and Mercury 7 astronaut Gordon Cooper. Additional guests range from=20 an MIT physicist to a world-renowned authority on religion.=20 Join us from April 15th on Channel 3 MSN=D4, The Microsoft Network Project: watchfire premieres April 15th on MSN=D4, The Microsoft=20 Network, Channel 3. Participate in live internet-radio chats,=20 scheduled to air Tuesday evenings at 6pm PST. The season premiere=20 takes place on April 22 at a special time, 8pm PST. All other live=20 shows are scheduled to air at the regular time - Tuesday evenings,=20 6pm PST Diana Botsford Hopkins Forum Manager Project: watchfire http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire "If the truth is out there, we'll find it here together" =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:54:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:30:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:37:22 -0400 >From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >Hello List. >Well, here's a revelation!!! >Anyway, I never _did_ say that these were anything otherworldly, >just 'Unknowns', or 'Unconventionals'. _Right_?? No you didn't Jennifer, you only made it 'sound' that way! Are you connected with CSETI? Maybe I have your posts jumbled in my head with someone elses. But if I'm correct, then I understand completely how this could have happened. And BTW, your tone (above) is very reminiscent of a "young one" that has gotten into trouble and is trying to avoid being grounded! I have a 24 year old daughter and a 22 year old son, They'll tell you that I've never let *them* get away with such nonsense either. I don't care how old you are, you're grounded for one month! <G> >So, back to my normal life at last. Iguanas, birds, cats, cars, >crop circles, pub lunches....and on and on. Yes, please! *Last June I got photos of UFO's (at pretty close range too) that I waited three months to post. Why? Because I thought they should be analyzed by an expert or two before putting it out to the world as a "UFO". Wish everybody would do the same, I know it would save me an awful lot of valuable reading time! Don't take this personally Jennifer. It's just that the credibilty factor takes dive bombing drops everytime someone broadcasts UFO sightings in the heat or excitement of the moment without the benefit of more experienced eyes and minds. I'd rather hear about a single sighting a month after the fact, that has had some elements of the case verified, than hear about fleets of spectacular UFO's that turn out to be just another,... "never mind!" John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Flying Triangles From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Apr 97 13:38:35 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:27:58 -0400 Subject: Flying Triangles For any list members who may be within striking range of Burnley, Lancashire: On Monday April 28th the Lancashire UFO Society are showing what *may* be the UKs first film of a Flying Triangle UFO. The vid. was taken by an amateur cameraman on the east coast of Lincolnshire on or very near the RAF Donna Nook bombing range. Apparently the film has been enhanced etc. and still looks like the real thing. The same area (not that far up the coast from the Rendlesham area) has been the site of numerous 'UFO' sightings over the years. The showing is taking place in an upstairs room at the Mechanics Club, Burnley at 7.30 pm. If anyone wants further info please email me. Bests Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:54:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:31:31 -0400 Subject: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:37:22 -0400 >From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >Hello List. >Well, here's a revelation!!! >Anyway, I never _did_ say that these were anything otherworldly, >just 'Unknowns', or 'Unconventionals'. _Right_?? No you didn't Jennifer, you only made it 'sound' that way! Are you connected with CSETI? Maybe I have your posts jumbled in my head with someone elses. But if I'm correct, then I understand completely how this could have happened. And BTW, your tone (above) is very reminiscent of a "young one" that has gotten into trouble and is trying to avoid being grounded! I have a 24 year old daughter and a 22 year old son, They'll tell you that I've never let *them* get away with such nonsense either. I don't care how old you are, you're grounded for one month! <G> >So, back to my normal life at last. Iguanas, birds, cats, cars, >crop circles, pub lunches....and on and on. Yes, please! *Last June I got photos of UFO's (at pretty close range too) that I waited three months to post. Why? Because I thought they should be analyzed by an expert or two before putting it out to the world as a "UFO". Wish everybody would do the same, I know it would save me an awful lot of valuable reading time! Don't take this personally Jennifer. It's just that the credibilty factor takes dive bombing drops everytime someone broadcasts UFO sightings in the heat or excitement of the moment without the benefit of more experienced eyes and minds. I'd rather hear about a single sighting a month after the fact, that has had some elements of the case verified, than hear about fleets of spectacular UFO's that turn out to be just another,... "never mind!" John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Hearings: The Fireworks Begin From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:47:28 -0400 Subject: Hearings: The Fireworks Begin HEARINGS, THE FIREWORKS BEGIN By Ed Komarek * Those of you that have been following my posts on Updates, IUFO and Skywatch know that I have weighed in in support of Steven Greer and CSETI's efforts to obtain hearings in Congress. This of course has put me smack in the middle of the line of fire. As I talk to various factions of the UFO community I see everybody loading and cocking weapons to shoot down one of our own once again. I realize that many of you feel that Steven deserves to be shot down and that Greer himself is feeding everybody the ammunition to do it. Okay, Okay. Lets try to remember to keep our sights on the big picture. The fact is that we all have a common interest in hearings and a end to the coverup. If we shoot down our own, for what ever reason by taking a confrotational approach, we may fail to find better solutions. I realize I have been just as guilty of shooting first and asking questions later as anybody else. I really am trying to do better. Just for once maybe we can really work together for just enough time to end this coverup. The latest big concern I have heard expressed is that Steven's efforts will sabatoge or otherwise interfer with other similar efforts underway. Thats a legitimite concern, okay. Lets see if their is a non-confrontational approach that may work. The question I think we need to be asking ourselves is: How are we going to increase the communication between the parties and individuals involved? This so as to work together to create a unified colalition. At the same we need to reduce the heat and friction generated from the various personalities and egos. There must be a way to network in and around each other to get this job done. Perhaps we can focus the debate on this point rather than doing each other in over who is the most deserving or less deserving person or group for the job. There must be a place for everybody concerned. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 UFO Conference Hicksville LI New York From: Rosebuds6@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:56:23 -0400 Subject: UFO Conference Hicksville LI New York Sunday Nov 2 1997 First Annual UFO Conference Hicksville LI New York Sponsored by The Eyes Of Learning Inc. And Starpeople (Non Profit Organization) Location Levittown Hall Levittown Pkwy Hicksville LI NY Featuring Budd Hopkins Author/Lecturer Harold Eglen Jr Founder of SPACE (Group of Abductees/Experiencers) Paul Williams UFO Desk WBAI 99.5 FM Rev.Michael Carter UFOs And The Bible Panel Of Regressed Abductees Vendors/Alien Artwork by Rick Smith Prepaid Tickets $50.00 by Sept 1 Tickets If Available at Door $60.00 Limited Available Tickets Please send Check or Moneyorder to Eyes of Learning C/OJoanne or Janet POB 462 Farmingdale NY 11735 e-mail Rosebuds6@aol.com e-mail Wolflady@aol.com fax Janet 516 654 3173 fax Joanne 516 843 1923 Visit our Website http://members.aol.com/Wolflady/TVshow.html Thanks Very Much Janet Russell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 20:33:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:50:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists >Some volunteers from the UFO group here are coming to my home to help >move all my UFO files and book collection to higher ground. I was >sandbagging some homes one block away from us last night. It's - er - >interesting, to say the least. Hang in there Chris. We're all thinking about you folks out there. God speed. Paul. Paul (Twigman) Wedel !-:-) There are many paths through the forest, they all lead to the other side.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 NASA SETI HRMS Plug Pulled From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:24:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:31:38 -0400 Subject: NASA SETI HRMS Plug Pulled Forwarded from "alt.alien.research". Unfortunately the lines of this item were all broken up, so I have tried to re-create the original look. I have not altered the words in any way. ________________________ 27. April 1997 04.23.25 alt.alien.research Item From: NoEmail@All,usenet Subject: Sky Survey dead, Targeted Search seeks funding To: alt.alien.research Summary: Sky Survey dead, Targeted Search seeks funding Last week, the Project Manager of the High Resolution Microwave Survey, NASA's SETI project, received formal notification from the NASA Administrator to shut down the HRMS project over 60 days, pursuant to the action by the US Congress earlier this month. Informed opinion is that there is almost no chance of reviving the NASA project for the foreseeable future. Background: The HRMS was the most ambitious SETI project to date. The Sky Survey segment of the Project was based at JPL and had the goal of searching the entire sky at all frequencies between 1 and 10 GHz using DSN antennas, an enormous task. For comparison, the Harvard META project searched the whole sky over about 2 MHz, and the Berkeley SERENDIP project, currently running at Arecibo, surveys ~10 MHz over a substantial part of the northern sky. All these surveys suffer from relatively poor sensitivities; they fail by many orders of magnitude to be able to detect the emissions of planets with technologies similar to ours. The META project, for example, requires a transmitter with EIRP of 7,000,000 GW at 1000 light years (a typical stellar distance in an all-sky survey) to produce a candidate signal. The HRMS Targeted Search, run out of Ames Research Center, had a different strategy: with long integrations on individual stars using the largest antennas in the world, it would have achieved a sensitivity (at Arecibo) sufficient to detect an EIRP of 0.4 GW at 10 ly (a typical distance to a nearby star). The frequency range from 1 to 3 GHz was to be searched for about 1000 of the nearest selected solar-type stars. Current Status: 1) The Sky Survey has built and is using a prototype system at L and X band. Observations will cease. The equipment will be stored, probably at a DSN telescope. 2) The Targeted Search was deployed at Arecibo last year with a 10 MHz pre-production system. This system is now back at Ames, being upgraded into a 20 MHz production system, in preparation for deployment to the 64 meter Parkes antenna in Australia next year. Unfortunately, this upgrade means that everything has been taken apart. We hope to be able to reassemble the 10 MHz system and get it into some kind of working condition before the shutdown completes. 3) JPL was nearing completion of an innovative feed/cryogenic amplifier system that spanned 1 to 3 GHz in just two packages. We hope to salvage some of this gear. 4) The HRMS was partially supporting SETI efforts at Harvard, Berkeley, and Ohio State; much, possibly all, of this funding will be lost. 5) A number of university scientists were being funded as part of the Investigators' Working Group; these too will get the ax. 6) The joint NSF/HRMS curriculum development project at the SETI Institute can, we hope, be saved by reprogramming at NASA. Future Prospects: Since the Sky Survey depends largely on NASA antennas and JPL personnel, prospects for the SS seem bleak. The Targeted Search, on the other hand, was run primarily through the non-profit SETI Institute (under a NASA Cooperative Agreement) and planned to use non-NASA telescopes, so there is still a _chance_ to do something. The SETI Institute has begun an emergency appeal to foundations and wealthy individuals to fund deployment of the Targeted Search. In the longer term, the Institute is seeking stable private funding to allow continued development and sustained use of SETI instrumentation, both internally and by support of external groups. We hope to be able to improve the sensitivity by a factor of 5-10 and the search speed by a factor of 10-30 within a decade. John Dreher Targeted Search System Scientist Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:23:25 -0500 From: "FastWalker" <NoEmail@All> Subject: Sky Survey dead, Targeted Search seeks funding Message-ID: <NoEmail-2604972123250001@ip10.an25-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 'Hynek UFO Report' re-released From: Robert Swiatek <Robert.Swiatek@USPTO.GOV> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:36:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:51:02 -0400 Subject: 'Hynek UFO Report' re-released Fellow list members: Barnes & Noble has just come out with a hardbound edition of THE HYNEK UFO REPORT. To my knowledge, this book has never appeared in hardcover before. I found mine in a B. Dalton bookstore; it cost me a little over eight dollars. --Rob Swiatek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:35:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings Hello Melanie .. you wrote: >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:54:05 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > >> Subject: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings >> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 00:06:40 -0600 >> From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> >> To: <aufora@spots.ab.ca> > >....snip.... Blue Book is a closed subject for most people, and the >cases are old, no matter how good some of them might be. ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Melanie, you are correct, and it is normal for this to occur over time. However, Dr. Hynek's reanalysis of those Blue Book cases established percentages for, amongst other things, nocturnal lights in relationship to the entire UFO spectrum. The TST/ELers, being ignorant of these old analyses, are making false assumptions that TST/EL can explain most if not all UFO sightings. Hynek's reanalysis and criteria re above: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m23-031.shtml It is extremely important that people DO NOT "forget" some of those "old" cases and analyses. The plethora of data from some of the better cases over the years is accumulating to form a "big picture" which is making a case for the need for greater involvement by mainstream scientists with regards to data collection and analysis. This is why I have established my website. Access to accurate, thoroughly researched historical information is vital to the study of UFOs. This information also facilitates intelligent discussion by all of us concerning the subject. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:35:07 -0400 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings Hello Melanie .. you wrote: >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:54:05 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > >> Subject: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings >> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 00:06:40 -0600 >> From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> >> To: <aufora@spots.ab.ca> > >....snip.... Blue Book is a closed subject for most people, and the >cases are old, no matter how good some of them might be. ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Melanie, you are correct, and it is normal for this to occur over time. However, Dr. Hynek's reanalysis of those Blue Book cases established percentages for, amongst other things, nocturnal lights in relationship to the entire UFO spectrum. The TST/ELers, being ignorant of these old analyses, are making false assumptions that TST/EL can explain most if not all UFO sightings. Hynek's reanalysis and criteria re above: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m23-031.shtml It is extremely important that people DO NOT "forget" some of those "old" cases and analyses. The plethora of data from some of the better cases over the years is accumulating to form a "big picture" which is making a case for the need for greater involvement by mainstream scientists with regards to data collection and analysis. This is why I have established my website. Access to accurate, thoroughly researched historical information is vital to the study of UFOs. This information also facilitates intelligent discussion by all of us concerning the subject. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Oberg/Cooper Research - Website Upgraded From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:35:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:34:00 -0400 Subject: Oberg/Cooper Research - Website Upgraded TO ALL RESEARCHERS: *** WEBSITE UPGRADE NOTICE *** The Oberg/Cooper Research Corner has recently been upgraded to the following format and includes amongst other things: fully footnoted, thoroughly researched articles, complete with direct linkages to/from each, and other sites on the web for easiest learning concerning each topic: 1. "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals 1-7" --Demonstrating Mr. Oberg's lack of knowledge regarding important UFO researchers and the history of the UFO topic --Extremely Important information regarding the research of J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald --Demonstrating the existence of UFOs as probable ETs --Demonstrating, via research re the preceding, and the close proximity in time other UFO cases submitted, a high probability that Astronaut Gordon Cooper's claims should not be casually dismissed 2. "Direct links to the original James Oberg article" 3. "Author's Select Cases" (now including links to:) ......Exeter, New Hampshire (Hynek, Project Blue Book version) (& Loftus study in relation to) ......Iranian AF Jet Encounter 9/19/76 (from NICAP Journal) --Other newspaper articles re FOIA releases from 1979/81(W. Post/Newsday) confirming, the Iranian Encounter --Brief History of NICAP (1956-80) Board of Directors, etc. --Screening committee (NICAP/APRO/HYNEK) which submitted UFO articles to the National Enquirer beginning in 1974. --Rockefeller Report (CUFOS/FUFOR/MUFON) 4. "Questions & Answers" page, including links to: ......CUFOS version of 1989/90 Belgium NATO case & brief discussion re same ......CUFOS (a brief history of, including personnel) ......Discussions between myself & Paul Devereux re TST/Earthlights ......Hynek's letter to Col. Sleeper regarding Project Blue Book in which he demonstrates that A.F. statistics regarding UFOs were, as he termed it, "a travesty" ......Hynek reevaluation of the 20 year Project Bluebook cases ......Reason behind Dr. Hynek's relationship with the National Enquirer ......Criteria used by the (NICAP/APRO/HYNEK) screening committee for submission and printing to the National Enquirer beginning in 1974 (From NICAP Journal) ......CONDON STUDY (information regarding) ......Abductions & JOHN MACK (Harvard U.) This site is there to provide accurate information regarding the history of UFOs (since the 1950's) and, I believe, unquestionably demonstrates the great need for mainstream scientists to become involved in data acquisition and analysis regarding UFO reports which are ongoing to this day. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Alfred's Odd Ode #129 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:35:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:52:11 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #129 Apology to MW #129 (For April 26, 1997) In my mind I envision a visit by MIBs Who have stopped by to *warn* me on my safety. They are sullen, and frightening =96 beyond all control. They are viciously quiet, and crafty. They remind that I can be squashed like a bug. They remind that I don=92t have *real* rights. They ask me if I could handle an audit. Suggesting their tax boys could turn out my lights. "And, would I be surprised that my wife used cocaine"? "Or my son was a gun running drug lord"? "And what of your _problem_, Mr. Lehmberg"? ". . . Fond of young children, the classroom your smorgasbord"? And it does me no good to say these are lies. History is the way *they* have it written. They sit in my house, with proud smirks on their faces, And I am silenced, hull breached, soundly beaten. Now none of this has to happen, they caution. Just be careful what you write ,and do, and say. Or we=92ll be back with all the proof that is needed, And we=92ll take your whole life away.=20 So this is my America, I ask them at last. This is what I fought for in the war. So my country could disgrace me as a loser, And without a backward glance, just shut my door! And I=92m more scared then, than in any time past. And I=92ve flown down the muzzles of big guns! And the terror I felt was cold steel in my guts. On their whim I would never see the sun. And it wasn=92t just me; it was my wife, and my boy. Our lives had no value to MIB=92s owners. We were worse than assorted malcontents. We were worse than the pimps, or the stoners. So what will I do when they visit. Trusted others have told me they come. I=92ll be living on the thin ice, I=92m believing, Always feeling that I=92m hounded -- on the run. And that=92s no way to live a life. So says the Alien View. When all I wanted was the truth. . . What am I now to do? Lehmberg@snowhill.com I=92m open for any suggestions. _What_ do you do! What do you _do_! Damned if it does not make one a little paranoid =96 and let=92s see . . . just what was that definition of paranoia? . . . Fear without threat. . .OK, so there is no threat, and black box government agencies do not exist! I am a fool to fear them, and only express a weakness in my character when troubled by the thought.=20 Let me tell you why I=92m troubled. I=92ve been federalized for a quarter of a century in an honorably completed military career. Though I witnessed all the bad that that implies I also witnessed all of the good. The reach for tolerance (albeit for pragmatic reasons, a military _has_ to work) across ethnic, and individual lines was commendable, commensurate with the times, and it warms this old memory. We were always reminded that we worked together for the constitution, ultimately, and that the president was the chief commander. I bought into the idealism of _classical_ liberalism, or, respect for the individual, and individual rights in a free society, unrestricted by tyranny, terror, or even testosterone! I bought in without really understanding why! Consider. . . Need to know is a terrifying concept. It has its roots in an ethic of arguable utility that proposes conditions where one man may make _arbitrary_ decision on what another man may know. Please hear the word *arbitrary* in there. Arbitrary is a bad word. It is a nine letter _four letter_ word. In that word hides more questions than we have answers to. There is no oversight in that word =96 no accountability, no responsibility. I know about need to know. I know that the people who practice *need to know* are seriously anal about it. I was deeply involved in military aviation for a quarter century, and never heard a peep about the stealth progam =96 ANYTHING can hide in there. I=92ve had friends mysteriously drop from active duty rolls, their military histories vanish as far as I was concerned, but then subsequently pop up again in my life with non specific hair raising tales that one did not find in the papers. They were quiet, different, and changed. And I certainly don=92t mean that in a good way =96 they had a new scariness they didn=92t have before. When these guys said that they=92d have to kill me if they told me any more, my chuckle was half hearted.=20 I knew these black box agencies existed =96 but I never truly understood their import! I suppose that I was so far under their cowl that I felt they were some kind of necessary associate =96 we were on the same team, brothers or something. Then I retired from military service, and went to college. There is nothing more dangerous than a guy my age, open minded, and looking for something useful to do, than going back to college <g>. I understood the import, then. The import is that if one gives _any_ reason at all, one can become an *arbitrary* target of one of these agencies. Simple as that. Read Koontz=92s "Dark Rivers of the Heart," for an illustration. I am unsettled with even *known* agencies like the FBI, CIA, ATF, and DEA are clearly running amuck in an incompetent fashion. My honest expression of that discomfort provides them with the excuse to make me a target. I, somehow, as a function of buying _in_ to the _classical_ (Chill =96 Newt is a *classical* liberal) liberal ideals of this nation -- have been made over into an enemy of it??? Now, that=92s not MY disconnect! That is no failure on MY part! That is not me betraying MY country, and I say this understanding the true evil of nationalism.=20 I discovered in college that truth is not what we think, much of what we know is wrong, and _I_ was the reason that there is not more GI Bill <G>. I read too much Tom Paine, I read to much Thomas Jefferson, I read to much John Stuart Mill. I listened to too much National Public Radio, and Alan Dawson Graham. I read enough to evolve an Alien View that seems to make sense of the crazyness I discover around me, and to challenge the faiths, and positions I have learned _may_ have secondary agendas =96 agendas that get more light with my effort, and at very least are fooling ME no longer. I=92m concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy.=20 To be encouraged not to speak up in any one of a thousand different ways would be on the way to an intellectual prison sentence for me, a perversion of justice, and a burden impossible for me to endure. First there would be the fear, of course. All my nightmares realized. But on the other side of that fear is a rage! It is a rage with justification, an intelligence, and a righteousness. It is a rage that is not compatible with a program of proposed persecution. It will not be easily put out, remember, as my experience, and my education have taught me how to fight within the law. You better just kill me <not grinning>.=20 OK =96 I=92m out. I don=92t know shit, but I am now involved in *seemingly unhampered* investigation, and unrestricted expression of that investigation. I=92m a happy person with a perfect grade point average at an accredited university learning to be a teacher for the emotionally conflicted, learning disabled, and mentally retarded. My wife has an equally faultless, and honorable reputation, achieved in her forty-five years, and my son is almost twenty, on a fine arts scholarship to a local college, and on the honor roll. There=92s no dope, no alcohol problems, we pay our bills, and we donate time to charity. Our neighbors respect us, and our friends love us. We are a happy, normal family in every respect with no axes to grind, no judgments to make, and hiding no agendas. All I=92m trying to say about me and mine is that we have been, presently are, and will endeavor to be one of the good guys. If my life begins to blow up like a soggy firecracker, I=92ll detail a report, here. I tell you all this, because I want you (you!) to understand that if I start running into excessive bad luck, disaster, or tragedy; If I=92m accused of encopric crimes, or the police bust down my doors, and find a crack factory -- it has been made from whole cloth; it is UNTRUE. I stand falsely accused for the convenience of the ARBITRARY if this horror should shake down. And one more thing gentle reader =96 YOU ARE NEXT! I have thus far written a book, completely free to the reader, detailing my conceptual evolution to this point in time. My "Apology to MW" series of collected poems is an ongoing exploration, and points one rational way to tolerant behaviors we could all profit hugely from. It uses science, correlation, and observation, but attempts to remain un-hobbled by any of these. It uses the ability to inform, entertain, and understands the responsibility of persuade. It is analytical, evaluational, and it tries to synthesize. It is pro-social, multi-denominational, and as completely inclusive as an exploration can be. It is on guard for dissembling fallacy in its own communication as well as the communications of others. And it rocks! Read it, and discuss the ideas with me! Don=92t be put off because it=92s free. Free expression is not necessarily valueless <g>. Consider what our kids are supposed to get in school. . . and remember, I KNOW that Paul Revere never rode!=20 In closing let me apologize for my rant. I certainly have no reason to believe that I am presently a target of a shadowy agency. The Alien View; however, has demonstrated the undeniable evidence of their existence; I am talking about them in an intelligent manner; it could be argued that I incite others to think in a similar manner; that would shorten the length of the shadows they hide in =96 I need to be stopped . . .seems like a no brainer, on many levels. I hope I=92m full of the proverbial male bovine fecal matter, you should hope I am too. But I think we both think I=92m not. . . I=92ll squawk like a "B" movie starlet to you if anybody start=92s leaning on me. Fay Wray would sound like a peeping chick compared to the sound I=92ll make. I=92ll squeal like castrati, unencumbered by testosterone=92s stony stoic silence. It=92ll make for interesting reading =96 and it=92ll be true! And remember, brothers and sisters, you are likely next. Am I a fool for inviting the shadow governments raptors? Perhaps. But I think it likely that I would be more the fool if I do not. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for not heeding the men in black.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: [In_Search_Of] Klass This One Fortean Buddies! From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:09:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:43:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [In_Search_Of] Klass This One Fortean Buddies! >A week has passed since the Fortean Unconvention in >London, England. Since nary a word has been keyed >about it by any UpDates subscriber, here are some >from the In Search Of list. In reply to this, I would point out that Lawrie Williams was not at UnConvention, and has indeed never attended one. He constructed this - which he also posted to the Forteana list - on the basis of one or two reports on the Forteana list. It bears no relation to anything that actually happened at UnCon, and was triggered by Bob Rickard saying that he found Klass charming as a person. Lawrie has a chip on his shoulder about anyone who does not share his highly individual beliefs on the UFO phenomenon (which are a mish-mash of Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Celtic mythology, plus some bits of his own), and the staff of Fortean Times in particular. ----- Nothing in this post is necessarily the opinion of John Brown Publishing or Fortean Times. On a bad day, it might not even be mine. ----- "It was like groping your way through a thick fog. The beams of your headlights showing the fog back at you. It was like that, yet it wasn't." Lionel Fanthorpe, "The Asteroid Man"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:47:10 -0400 Subject: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists Errol and Sue: An update: We just received at 4 pm this afternoon the first notice about possible evacuation. If and when we get a second ntice, we'll have just 24 hours to get out. Seekers (Brian and Dave) came all the way in to Winnipeg to help us clear out the basement, but now that we may get even *worse*, they are coming back (a 2-hour drive each way!) tomorrow with a truck to take the UFO book collection and UFO files all to their higher ground. Yes, we're scared. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:03:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:03:59 -0400 Subject: 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing I usually try not to post un-attributted material to the List - 'MUFON Staff' means nothing to me and is a very odd name for a spokesperson. The lack of an _only_ reason it _is_ posted here is for reaction from 'name' staff who've been known to frequent UpDates. Dennis Stacy? ebk ________________________________________________ From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:19:42 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: MUFON HQ Responds To Greer Hearings MUFON Responds to Greer and CSETI I received this public statement mailed from MUFON headquarters in response to Steven Greer's and CSETI's activities related to hearings in Congress. I want to thank MUFON for coming out and airing their concerns. I hope FUFOR and CUFOS will do the same. I have asked the CSETI folks to post their concerns, hopefully following soon after this post. I think it will be very healthy to air our concerns in as a non-adversarial way as possible.(ha ha) Then after the fireworks die down perhaps we can address these concerns in open meetings on the internet. Of course confidences must be kept but I see no reason why public discussion cannot be made to clear the air and get us all working better together. I have only posted to these three lists. I hope others will repost to other sites. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) ************************************************ Date: Sat, Apr 26, 1997 11:33 PM EDT From: MUFON HQ Subj: Re: Fwd: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI To: Ed Komarek * MUFON wants every one on this list to know that Greer is not the only person, or group that is trying to work on capital hill. The UFO Research Coalition has been working for over two years at grooming contacts in Washington, and we are sure Greer was aware of that. It has been brought to our attention that the briefing document Greer used look very much like the one we paid to have put together. If he did use our material he did it without permission and against our wishes. We have not fully assessed the impact of Greer's overstated claims, or the validity of the claimed witnesses he presented, but our suspicion is that he has set back our 2 years of efforts, creating work instead of making progress. Since the press seemed to ignore the Greer move we hope that this is an indicator that only a little damage was done. If Greer really wants to do something, he needs to persuade his money support to get behind our effort, so we can make some real progress with a common sense, conservative, well thought through planned approach using people that know there way around, and know how to conduct themselves. Any one having deep detail as to what went on in Washington; who was there, by name and position, and who said what, or any other details that would allow us to make a damage assessment, it would be appreciated if you would pass it to us. MUFON Staff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 20:16:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:20:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:35:12 -0400 (EDT) >"On page 141 Korff refers to a photograph that Meier took of a UFO >hovering above a larger truck. The UFO is in perfect focus while the >truck is blurred and out-of-focus. Korff states that both the truck and >the UFO are 44 meters (144 feet) away in the distance, and that the UFO >is hovering 325 feet above the truck. From this, Korff concludes that, >since both the truck and the UFO are _the same distance from the camera_ >the UFO must be a scale model located much closer to the camera, since >both should be in equal focus. This is a careless and/or unscientific >conclusion. According to my calculations, the UFO is in fact about 355 >feet from the camera, which is about two and a half times as far away >as the truck. Focusing on the UFO could therefore explain why the truck >is not in focus. I return to this subject because I forgot to take into account in my calculations I posted earlier today the width of Meier's film, which is about 35 mm. With taking the 35 mm into account I estimate the distance between the truck and the camera 22 meters. And if the UFO photo is real the distance between the UFO and the camera according to my calculations is 77 m. My calculations seem to be in line with those findings John Koopmans posted to this list and do support the conclusions regarding Korff's conlusions being careless/unscientific. I'll add on below the calculations: Width of Meier's original film = ca 35 mm. Width UFO photo (fig. 23, p.144, Korff 1995) = about 137.5 mm 137.5 mm = 35 mm 1 mm = ca 0.25 mm (0.25 mm on Meier's original film represents 1 mm in fig. 23). UFO diameter measured in fig. 23 = ca 15 mm UFO diameter on film: 15 mm * 0.25 = 3.82 mm Height truck measured in fig. 23 = 30 mm Height truck on film : 30 mm * 0.25 = 7.6 mm 4.45 (diameter on film) 7 m (alleged diameter UFO) ---------------------- = ---------------------- 42 mm (focal length) actual distance from camera Actual distance from UFO to camera = 77 m (23 feet) 7.6 (height on film) ca 4 m (height truck) --------------------- = -------------------------- 42 mm (focal length) actual distance from camera Actual distance from truck to camera 22 m (72 feet)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 13:35:23 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:19:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: TotlResrch@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:10:14 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Korff Challenges Deardorff! (Hey, that Rhymes!) >"On page 141 Korff refers to a photograph that Meier took of a UFO >hovering above a larger truck. The UFO is in perfect focus while the >truck is blurred and out-of-focus. Korff states that both the truck and >the UFO are 44 meters (144 feet) away in the distance, and that the UFO >is hovering 325 feet above the truck. From this, Korff concludes that, >since both the truck and the UFO are _the same distance from the camera_ >the UFO must be a scale model located much closer to the camera, since >both should be in equal focus. This is a careless and/or unscientific >conclusion. According to my calculations, the UFO is in fact about 355 >feet from the camera, which is about two and a half times as far away >as the truck. Focusing on the UFO could therefore explain why the truck >is not in focus. Using Korff's fig. 23, p. 144 for some measurements and using the following relation of: 22 mm (UFO-diameter in film) 7 m (alleged actual diameter) ------------------------- = -------------------------- 42 mm (focal length unknown actual distance from camera my quick calculations shows that *if* the UFO photographed is real it probably was at a minimal distance of about 13 meters (but possibly more). This of course disagrees with Meier's account of the object being at the same distance as the truck (44 m). However a still valid alternative to a small model close to the camera is that Meier was mistaken when estimating the distance. Anyway, it shows that Korff's arguments do not conclusively prove anything. Jeroen.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:58:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:40:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:19:33 -0400 > > A question for Kevin, re Larry Warren: > > <snip> > > > By the way, Warren claimed to have been up next to the > > craft and Halt told him that no one was in front of him > > (Halt). We must look at the whole picture and that picture > > does not include Larry Warren. > > > Kevin, > > Why do you think Halt is telling the truth? Maybe more to > the point, have you read the book, and seen the transcripts > of recent conversations between Halt, Warren, and Peter Robbins? > > Greg//perplexed because Peter is as honest and thorough as they come > With all respect to those participating in the thread regarding "Left at Eastgate". 1) I think that conversation regarding the Rendlesham Forest Affair should include at least a familiarization with the material published by Jenny Randles on this subject (no relation of Kevin Randle), she is a UK investigator. She first became involved with investigating it in January 1981 a few days after it happened and was the first writer to publish on it. She has recently summarized her experiences in this investigation in her book: "UFO Retrievals - The Recovery of Alien Spacecraft" published 1995 by Blanford Publishing distributed in the US by Sterling Publishing Co. 387 Park Avenue South, NY, NY 10016-8810 $9.95 ISBN 0-7137-2493-5 The relevant material is in the chapter 1980: The Rendlesham Forest Affair pp. 131-148. Her opening paragraphs begin: "The ultimate game of information-disinformation-misinformation seems to have involved the Rendlesham Forest incident in late December 1980. More has probably been written on this important case tahn any other in British ufology. Like Roswell before it, it is also attracting plans for a big-budget, Hollywood movie, this time with an ace conspiracy-story director reported to be interested. This is a case to which I am very attached having first become involved in January 1981, a few days after it happened. I was the first writer to mention it in public, in an article for Flying Saucer Review that same spring. At that point, it was just a mass of often conflicting rumors and tall tales, which showed little hope of ever being resolved into a coherent story. Eventually I went on to write two books about the matter. In the first, Sky Crash, I worked with two locals, Brenda Butler and Dot Street, whoc collected the gaggle of tales circulating in the local villages during the days and weeks after the event. From Out of The Blue was published more recently. It was the culmination of a decade of research, so sensitive that I had to publish in the USA!" By the way I have recently finished a title I have not seen mentioned on UFOupdates: The Randle Report - UFOs in the 1990s, by Kevin Randle. It provides an excellent and frank discussion by Kevin on his own research into Roswell and other topics currently of interest in ufology; however, unfortunately he did not include a chapter discussing his outlook on the Rendelsham Forest Affair (Bentwaters). Could that be in the works for the next report Kevin? Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:24:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:43:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:48:01 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Hello List: > The Bentwaters case is one of the best cases that has come > our way in a long time. Nit-picking is not going to change that. > The book "Left at East Gate" has taken the authors *9* years to > write. > It seems to me that Kevin Randle feels skeptical about most > cases except the Roswell case, of course. Considering that > the Roswell case will be 50 years old and most of its witnesses > are deceased, I would imagine that there are many more grey areas > in *this* case. Sorry for such a belated intervention in this area Linda. Not that Kevin Randle needs anyone to defend him but in his defence it should be noted that he has taken a great deal of interest in the Shag Harbour case, enough so that he has alluded to it in his upcoming book. If you are unaware of it check with Budd. Don Ledger co-author The Shag Harbour Incident -pending
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:08:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-27 12:14:16 EDT, you write: > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Date: 97-04-27 12:14:16 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:59:12 -0400 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >That is but one little 'gem' contained in 'Left at East Gate' >- there are many, many more, including soil sample analysis >which throws up some intriguing surprises. Interestingly, Warren >does include several military personnel records in the book while >stationed at RAF Bentwaters (assigned to 'D' Flight - 81st Security >Police Squadron on 2 Dec 1980 - training commenced on 5 Dec 1980). >His name appears on other forms which place him with the same unit >and location on 15 May 1981. >A medical/dental form has him at RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, on 2 Feb >1981. No one is denying that he was stationed at Bentwaters, only that he was not there for the first two nights of the activity. > Far be it from to issue a challenge to fellow American >researchers, but rather than castigate Larry Warren and Peter >Robbins, would it not be far more constructive to locate and >isolate some of the individuals whose names appear in their >book and invite them to comment? >Trust this serves to broaden the debate. >Best regards, >Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] No one, and certainly not me, has said anything bad about Peter Robbins. I believe that he is accurately reporting what he believes to be the truth. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen] From: "Jeroen Jansen" <edzmath@bart.nl> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 13:23:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:15:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen] >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 16:28:58 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen Vince Johnson wrote regarding my critical remarks regarding Korff's 1995 book: ><snip> >...and proceeds to argue why Korff's analysis is in error, >presumably making the case that Meier's photos and story are >true. I wrote that e-mail (and this one) with the purpose of pointing out scientific facts which prove that Korff's "objective scientific" research obviously isn't that scientific at all. You can check it up yourself and convince yourself of Mr. Korff's obviously questionable scientific approach. Take a look for example at his claim of having found the exact Unterbalm location Meier hoaxed his photo from (pp. 149-151). I disproved that one earlier here. Your assumption that I write my e-mails with the purpose of "making a case for Meier's photos and stories being true" is wrong since *I'm not pro or contra Meier*; my objective is studying the whole spectrum of UFO data and trying to establish the facts by means of rational and open minded thinking (and of course if possible by means of observation under reconstruction) and then look what might be learned from it; taking into consideration hypotheses that explain the emerged patterns and if possible make predictions/deductions and test the hypotheses against the established facts etc. That's all within the philosophy of science and has nothing to do with religion. In contrast blindly believing, endorsing and promoting Korff's book as a sound solid scientific work can be labeled as a religion. The facts regarding Korff's 1995 book I pointed out earlier examples of facts that can be observed by any sane individual under reconstruction. And any rational thinking individual can easily convince himself of it being true beyond any doubt; a rarity in UFOlogy. A pattern of many demonstratable distortions of data, wrong and misleading errors does emerge while studying Mr. Korff's "scientific" work. The book obviously isn't able to come up to the expectation's created by Korff and "other experts of the field" of it being conclusive evidence of the Meier data "simply" being the result of a hoax. Regards, Jeroen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Flying Triangles From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:49:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:38:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Flying Triangles > Date: 26 Apr 97 13:38:35 EDT > From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Flying Triangles > On Monday April 28th the Lancashire UFO Society are showing > what *may* be the UKs first film of a Flying Triangle UFO. > The vid. was taken by an amateur cameraman on the east coast > of Lincolnshire on or very near the RAF Donna Nook bombing > range. Apparently the film has been enhanced etc. and still > looks like the real thing. The same area (not that far up the > coast from the Rendlesham area) has been the site of numerous > 'UFO' sightings over the years. Recently came across this in Harold Wilkins "Flying Saucers Uncensored" (ISBN 0-515-03434-7): "December 30, 1953: A blue saucer making a crackling noise flashed and then hissed over an American air base at Bentwater, England" ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Just a Question..... of balloons From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:28:45 -0400 Subject: Just a Question..... of balloons Hello List: A few months ago, a friend and I went to have coffee at the South Street Seaport, here on Manhattan Island. It was a clear, but very windy day. We watched the seagulls fly around, when suddenly we saw 3 oval, red tinted objects dirft across the sky. It seemed as though the wind didn't effect them. They drifted against the wind going towards Brooklyn or Queens. At first we thought they were balloons a child might've lost. However, if that was the case, they would've drifted with the wind. These things had weight to them. My question is: What shape is a weather balloon and do they come in colors? I very rarely look up, so I don't know. The last time I looked up was in 1989 and I was sorry. Thanks, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:26:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-27 12:49:36 EDT, you write: > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:19:33 -0400 A question for Kevin, re Larry Warren: > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:30:50 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? > Please read the memo carefully. You'll find that there > were only two nights of activity. Halt in various > interviews conducted after the events has said that > there were only two nights, no third. He told Warren > that Warren's tale had combined events on the second > night with events on the mythical third night. <snip> > By the way, Warren claimed to have been up next to the > craft and Halt told him that no one was in front of him > (Halt). We must look at the whole picture and that picture > does not include Larry Warren. >Kevin, >Why do you think Halt is telling the truth? Maybe more to >the point, have you read the book, and seen the transcripts >of recent conversations between Halt, Warren, and Peter Robbins? >Greg//perplexed because Peter is as honest and thorough as they come >> Hi Greg - Why do you think that Halt is not? He wrote the memo, he created the audio tape, and his involvement is corroborated by many of those who were there. And, I don't believe I have said anything about Peter Robbins. Hell, I was fooled by Don Schmitt and Glenn Dennis. The point is, Warren himself has said that he wasn't there for the first two nights. That is the point I've been trying to make. I believe Warren when he said he wasn't there KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 17 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:52:05 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 17 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 17 April 27, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFO LEAVES CROP CIRCLES IN NORTHERN CROATIA On Wednesday, April 16, 1997, at 8:15 p.m., the Croatian national TV aired a strange report during the show Ziva Istina (The Living Truth). According to the announcer, a UFO appeared over the town of Zagorje in northern Croatia. He said, "It seemed like a giant cigar." A Zagorje man was watching TV at 6:45 p.m. that evening when he suddenly noticed "red light streaming through the window." He left his chair, got dressed and went out in the yard to see what the disturbance was all about. About 160 meters (530 feet) away, in a farm field, a "fireball" hovered just above the ground. The witness described the UFO as a black sphere surrounded by a fiery red glow, approximately 12 meters high and 15 meters in diameter, with "three holes like windows." After the UFO flew away, the man went to the field and discovered a crop circle measuring 28 meters (92 feet) in diameter. He also found a few strange footprints "larger than his own." The prints were Croatian shoe size #43 (Size 9 U.S.) This is Croatia's second UFO incident of 1997. On February 20, Damir Nozica spotted "three orange fireballs" flying over Lokrum Island in the Adriatic Sea, about 8 kilometers (5 miles) south of Dubrovnik. (Many thanks to Berislav Kucan for this story.) DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN ANAHEIM, CALIFORNIA On Sunday, April 20, at 1:30 p.m., a girl named Laura was riding in the family car with her mother and her brother. As they neared the Wal-Mart at the corner of Euclid Street and Lincoln Avenue in Anaheim, California (population 221,847), Laura "looked through the windshield, and I saw a shiny thing that was about the size of a plane. But it was larger than a plane and was shiny." Laura had the object in view for "a few seconds, like 5 or 10 seconds, I guess," and estimated its position at 45 degrees above the horizon. She looked away for a few seconds, and "when I looked back, the frick'n thing was gone. I looked all over the sky, but I didn't see it anywhere." (Email Interview) THREE UFOs SIGHTED OVER DES MOINES, IOWA On Monday, April 14, 1997, at 12:10 a.m., a 34-year-old amateur atronomer was doing some telescope work in his backyard near 29th Street and Lyon in Des Moines, Iowa. "Coming out of the west was what appeared to be a satellite," he reported. "Turned out to be the lead in a group of three UFOs. Their color was a dim, almost transparent hazy yellow. The group appeared to be traveling at the speed of a satellite in low Earth orbit." The witness described the UFOs as "bulbous on the upper and lower side with a typical saucer outline...effortlessly skimming towards the east." The three UFOs flew in V-formation at 67 degrees above the eastern horizon. (Email Interview) UFO SQUADRONS GATHER NORTH OF TWIN CITIES A startling multiple UFO sighting took place in Minnesota this week, just north of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. On Wednesday, April 24, 1997, at 9:45 p.m., a boy living in the Twin Cities suburb of New Brighton, Minnesota (population 23,269) looked out a window and saw a bright, diamond-shaped UFO in the sky. Immediately he told his mother, and the two of them went into the backyard of their home, located not far from Long Lake Road and Silver Lake Road. In a report to the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, the woman reportedly said she counted 30 UFOs overhead between 9:45 p.m. and 10:45 p.m. The UFOs were described as "diamond-shaped" or "triangular-shaped craft moving at incredible speed, darting back and forth across the sky." She added that she and her son "saw the underbelly of one or more crafts and the light underneath." New Brighton is located seven miles (11 kilometers) north of downtown Minneapolis, along Interstate Highways 694 and 35W. (Many thanks to Alana Ray and Steve Wilson Jr. for this report) (Editor's Note: The U.S. Army's Twin Cities Ammunition Plant is in Arden Hills, Minnesota, just across Long Lake from New Brighton. A possible site of interest for the UFOs?) MYSTERIOUS POWER OUTAGES PLAGUE SOUTHERN BRAZIL During the evening of Wednesday, April 24, 1997, an unexplainable power surge flooded the transmission lines near the Furnas Centrais Eletricais substation in Ibiuna, in Sao Paulo state, Brazil. The surge knocked out electrical power in the cities of Foz do Iguacu, on the border with Paraguay, and Cascavel. Also affected were the towns of Capanema, Santo Antonio do Sudoeste, Barracao and Pato Branco. On Thursday, April 25, 1997, at 6:20 p.m., a second unexplained power surge struck the Ibiuna substation. Again power was knocked out in the same cities but was restored by 8 p.m. Officials of FCE had no explanation for the sudden surges. (Muito obrigado a Mauri Konig da Agencia Estado e OVNI-Brasil) QUEBEC MAN REPORTS A WEIRD ENCOUNTER On March 9, 1997, at 7:15 p.m., Paul Dassault, 67, decided to go for an evening stroll near his home in St. Emile de Suffolk, Quebec. Suddenly, on his right, he spied "two bright yellow lights" about 200 feet (67 meters) into the woods. Paul became very alarmed because, as he told the Quebec UFO study group CEIPI, "There is no road whatsoever in there and not even a snowmobile trail." After a few seconds, Paul was able to make out a solid object, square, black, measuring 6 feet long, with two violently bright yellow lights on either end. Deciding to get a better look, he entered the woods. Just then, "an intense wall of light" poured out of the center of the UFO. "The wall expanded for 500 feet (165 meters)" on either side and rose to a height of 38 feet (11 meters). Shaken, he hurried back to the trail. The UFO remained hovering in place. On March 29, 1997, Paul returned to the same area outside St. Emile de Suffolk. There was no sign of the square black object, but he did encounter a hovering "ball of light" four feet (1.3 meters) in diameter. The UFO floated through the trees at a height two feet (0.7 meters) above the snow. He halted and then left "when the ball began coming right at me at a slow pace." According to Jean Casault of CEIPI, the witness is now under a physician's care for "nervous shock." (Merci beaucoup a Jean Casault pour cette histoire.) LOCH SPORT BECOMES REAL LIFE "JURASSIC PARK" The East Gippsland area of Australia's Victoria (Vic.) state is fast becoming a real-life Jurassic Park. A fierce predator dating back to the Pleistocene Ice Age and extinct since 1931 has been seen repeatedly around Loch Sport. The predator is the thylacine, also known as "the Tasmanian tiger." The last recognized specimen died in the Hobart, Tasmania zoo in 1931. But since 1965, there have been over 40 reported sightings of the beast in the area around Loch Sport. The most recent sighting was in February at Lake Reeve, near Bairnsdale, Vic. Samantha Humes, 19, said she saw a thylacine "sniffling along up on the road and popped its head up to look at me. It was about the height of a cattle dog, dark grey with tan and dark brown stripes and a greyhound-like face." She added that the animal "disappeared behind scrub 'in two hops.'" Maurice Griffin, a retired crane driver, told the Melbourne Herald-Sun that he's seen three different thylacines on six separate occasions on his Loch Sport property. Griffin, 66, leaves meat outdoors to attract the carnivorous animal and has rigged an automatic photograph system. "I've lived in the bush all my life, and I've never seen anything like it," Griffin said, "What I'm trying to do is coax it up to nearly level to my window so I can take a photo of it. I just want to prove what I'm saying is right." (See the Melbourne Herald-Sun for February 20, 1997. Many thanks to Lou Farish of UFO Newsclipping Service for this news story.) NEW CATTLE MUTILATIONS IN NEW MEXICO On Saturday, April 12, 1997, a five-year-old cow was found mutilated on a ranch near Arroyo Seco, New Mexico (population 500), a small town 57 miles (92 kilometers) north of Santa Fe. The cow was found lying on its left side. Missing were its tongue, udders, anus and sexual organs. The site was investigated by Dr. Leroy Martinez of Cerolla, N.M., former New Mexico state patrolman Gabe Valdez and reporter Phaedra Greenwood of the Taos, N.M. News. The Arroyo Seco case was the third cattle mutilation in New Mexico in two months. On March 6, investigator David Perkins visited a site in Pecos, N.M., 27 miles (43 kilometers) southeast of Santa Fe. Here a two-year-old cow described as "very healthy" was found dead and missing a circular patch of hide measuring 10 inches in diameter. The cut, 8 inches deep, removed the udder and teats. A V-shaped notch was also found on the cow's right ear. On February 20, rancher John Mutz (pronounced "Mutes") discovered his prize bull dead. The animal was missing its tongue and rear end. Investigating the case was New Mexico cattle inspector Jerry Valario. (Many thanks to Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, for these reports.) T.A.S.K. INVESTIGATES PUZZLING CASE OF THE "BOUNCING UFO" The group Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) is currently investigating a bizarre "bouncing UFO" incident that occurred near New Vienna, Ohio (population 1,133) on the night of March 26, 1997. At 8 p.m., on March 26, Mrs. Ed Brown of New Vienna observed brightly-lit UFOs overflying the town. At 11 p.m., she called her brother on the telephone, and her nephew said that "he had been outside playing basketball" when "he saw something drop from the sky and bounce back up off the ground in that area." Other people saw the same phenomenon--a light dropping from the sky and bouncing back up-- between Highland and Leesburgh on Underground Road. Steve Garen of the New Vienna Fire Dept. told T.A.S.K. that he was driving on Ohio Route 729 to Route 72 south when he spied the event. "Before we saw it hit the ground, there were three triangle-type lights in order, not flashing...an exact pyramid shape in the sky," Garen said. "There was one object behind the three that was flashing. They just looked like a huge ball of light that kept getting brighter. You wouldn't see it and then all of a sudden it was there again. We headed for the area. It was towards Greenfield and Hillsboro. Have you ever seen a real bright, bright light? It just kept traveling real fast and then went straight down. We thought it was a shooting star at first, but it just dropped and hit the ground, and went straight back up the same way it came down. There was so sound or flash or anything we could see." Also that night, Jaime Orme of Maysville, Kentucky (population 7,983), across the Ohio River and 25 miles (35 kilometers) south of New Vienna, received a phone call from a friend, who reported a UFO hovering above his farm field in Plumville, Kentucky, five miles (8 kilometers) west of Maysville. The witness said "three flare-like objects" first hovered above the house, then moved slowly into an adjacent field. A fourth UFO suddenly appeared "and then moved to merge with the other three." All four then vanished. (Many thanks to Kenneth Young, T.A.S.K. public relations director, for these reports.) A-10 WRECKAGE FOUND After two days of snowstorms, USAF rescue commandos retrieved wreckage of the missing A-10 fighter-bomber from the north face of Gold Dust Peak (elevation 13,365 feet or 4,100 meters), a mountain about 15 miles (24 kilometers) southwest of Vail, Colorado. The aircraft had been missing since April 2 when its pilot, Capt. Craig D. Button, inexplicably broke formation while on a training mission at the Goldwater bombing range in southern Arizona. Capt. Button's A-10 flew 800 miles to Colorado. Its last known position on radar was in the vicinity of New York Mountain, not far from Gold Dust Peak. "Tethered by a 100-foot cable from a helicopter overhead, Sgt. Ishmael Antonio snatched a shard of jet engine blade and a bundle of safety-system cables and control wires from a snow covered mountainside" on Wednesday, April 24, 1997. "Stock numbers later identified them as parts from the lost A-10 Thunderbolt II." (See USA Today for April 25, 1997) On Thursday, "a blinding, wind-driven snowstorm forced rescuers to halt their search" for the pilot. But the USAF Pararescue Team's MH53 Pave Low helicopter tried again on Friday. The team "found body parts among the wreckage, indicating the pilot was in the cockpit when it crashed into the mountains." (See Providence Journal-Bulleting for April 26, 1997, page A6) "What we found was fragmentary human remains," Maj. Gen. Nils Running said, "We are not positive whose human remains they are." A military lab will conduct DNA tests on the remains to determine if they match the DNA profile in Capt. Button's USAF medical file. Still missing are the four 500-pound Mark 82 GP (General Purpose) bombs the A-10 had been carrying before the crash. After the snow melts in June, the Air Force will send in another team to "locate and neutralize the bombs," Maj. Gen. Running told the media Friday. SEARCH FOR MISSING LEAR JET RESUMES Approximately 150 family friends and volunteers from all over New England climbed Smarts Mountain in Lyme, New Hampshire on Saturday, April 26, 1997, seeking the Lear jet which vanished last December. The morning of December 24, 1996, a Lear jet flown by Johan Schwartz and Patrick Hayes, both 31, of Connecticut was told to "go around" by the municipal airport tower in Lebanon, New Hampshire. As the jet began to bank high above the upper Connecticut River valley, it vanished from Lebanon airport's radar screen just after 10 a.m. An exhaustive air and ground search of the mountainous area around Lebanon, N.H. and White River Junction, Vermont failed to turn up any trace of the Lear jet or its two pilots. Since the official search ended, family members and friends have conducted ground searches every weekend. As of Sunday, April 27, 1997, the aircraft remains missing. ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: Last week's issue (Volume 2, Number 16) wrongly attributed the sighting of a Black Triangle in Liverpool, England on April 15, 1997 to "Lee Liser and a few friends." The actual eyewitnesses were Liser Morgan and her unnamed companion. The ROUNDUP sincerely regrets the error. Vigilia is an e-zine published by Jefferson Martinho, with some support from CEPEX. It is not the CEPEX Website. Also, you can drop in at Vigilia at this URL: http://empresa.com/com/vigilia from the UFO Files... 1897: AN AIRSHIP VISITS WINNIPEG One hundred years ago, on Saturday, May 1, 1897, "a mysterious airship," as UFOs were then called, flew over Winnipeg, the capital of Canada's Manitoba province, then a city of 40,000 people. Here are some excerpts from a news story of the period: "Saturday night (May 1, 1897) was the date chosen for the appearance of the airship, and the lights of the mysterious machine were in full view of many citizens for a full fifteen minutes." "The strange visitor" approached from the west, following the Assiniboine River, "out of a starry sky." The boys at Howard's Drugstore watched the UFO "mystified by the strange vision...Only the bare outlines of some dark object could be seen besides the strange heaven light, evidently from the 'masthead' of the aerial craft. There can be no doubt about the presence of the strange vision on Saturday night, as its transit was witnessed by many reputable citizens," including Manitoba's provincial lieutenant governor. After passing over St. Boniface Hospital, the UFO veered sharply to the north and "was lost from view" as it flew toward the town of Stony Mountain. (See the Vancouver, B.C. News-Advertiser for May 2, 1897) (Editor's Note: By May 1897, the airship flap in the USA was winding down. But the Winnipeg sighting was the kick-off for a flap in Manitoba and British Columbia that reached its peak during July and August of 1897. If any Canadian readers have photocopies of those 1897 airship stories, please send them to the ROUNDUP's snail-mail address, so I can do some features this summer. Thanks!) FUN UFO WEBSITES For years, William A. Corliss has been entertaining readers (your editor, included) with true stories of unexplained phenomena taken directly from the scientific journals themselves. Now Science Frontiers newsletter is available at Science Frontiers Online at http://www.knowledge.co.uk/frontiers/ Veteran UFO researcher Scott Corrales just opened his Web page this week. Scott is the author of numerous articles on UFOs, a book on Chupacabras and is the publisher of the quarterly news magazine Samizdat. You can reach his site at http://www.bradford-online.com/np/samizdat/index.html. Also, don't miss Scott's great new article on El Yunque, Puerto Rico's UFO-haunted mountain in the Summer 1997 issue of UFO UNIVERSE magazine. Don't forget to drop in at our parent site, UFOINFO. There are plenty of news and feature stories offered by webmaster John Hayes. You'll find it at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, of course, there's our UFO ROUNDUP site, where you can download back issues, at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts. (Editor's Note: Which reminds me...a hearty thank-you to the newsroom staff at the News Plaindealer in Sparta, Illinois for your mention of UFO ROUNDUP in the January 29, 1997 issue.) If you come across a UFO story in your local newspaper, please clip it out and send it to this address: UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886. And if you have a UFO to report, contact us at Masinaigan@aol.com. To our readers in Mexico, "Feliz Cinco de Mayo!" And, to the rest, we'll be back next Sunday with more news of UFOs. Till then, best wishes from "the paper that goes home...UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any item from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the story first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Older cases are important From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:23:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:56:45 -0400 Subject: Older cases are important > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 4/27/97 3:36 PM: > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:35:07 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: AUFORA: Steven Greer urges government hearings > It is extremely important that people DO NOT "forget" some of those > "old" cases and analyses. The plethora of data from some of the > better cases over the years is accumulating to form a "big picture" > which is making a case for the need for greater involvement by > mainstream scientists with regards to data collection and analysis. I couldn't agree more. Old cases are important for a number of reasons: 1) The nature or categories of UFO sightings may have changed over time. Without an appropriate context, the modern phenomenon cannot be properly understood. For instance, Vallee has asserted that the Type II cases have largely vanished since the 1954 wave. If this were the case, it would be impossible to study such cases without reference to older records. 2) Aviation technology has advanced significantly since 1947. Thus, it is likelier for a modern aircraft or drone to be mistaken for a UFO, simply because it will have more flexible flight characteristics or enhanced performance. Older cases are not so contaminated. 3) Techniques for hoaxing UFO photographs have also advanced. Older hoaxes are much more amenable to detection; thus, older photographic evidence can be of significant value. 4) No important statistical reservoir should be discounted. The Blue Book reports represent an important sample for study of both UFOs and IFOs. For instance, if one were to be interested in the demographics of UFO vs. IFO witnesses, Blue Book might very well be one of the largest publicly available samples. The structure of waves and flaps can also be derived from the basis of these large samples. 5) Hidden away in older cases may be information of significant value whose importance is not recognized until correlation with later cases is performed. For instance, my analysis of six sightings of similar objects between 1949 and 1967 uses several reports, drawings, and photos from Blue Book, which are able to be correlated with cases from other sources. In addition, at least one Blue Book photo, heretofore unstudied, shows interesting structure in the object luminosity. 6) Establishing patterns of activity between older and modern cases are essential to generating a conviction among friendly skeptics that the UFO phenomenon is not a creation of irrational mystics, and that it does demonstrate analytically verifiable and temporally stable patterns, like other phenomena amenable to scientific study. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing, and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:31:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:58:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? Regarding... >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Rendlesham & 'Left at East Gate' >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:16:16 +0100 Mark wrote about RAF Bentwaters: >It was a joint US/UK facility. It had the longest runway in West >Europe. There have been a number of references on military aviation forums to RAF Machrihanish, in NW Scotland, having the longest runway in Europe. Maybe that was later. >Whatever happened on the two or three nights in question, the base >was prepared for it: We have to be careful when referring to "the base". As I'm sure you appreciate, RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge were twin bases, operated as one unit and separated by Rendlesham Forest. Most of those known to have played a part in events appear to have been stationed at RAF Woodbridge, not RAF Bentwaters. Lieutenant-Colonel Halt was the Deputy Base Commander. When he was _told_ about the second night's incidents, he was at a belated Christmas party and has reportedly confirmed that some 40 other officers were present. This doesn't sound like they were expecting an eventful night and dare I suggest, they wouldn't have been drinking Darjeeling tea. Not exactly a state of alertness. The base security personnel on duty were in no apparent state of preparedness either. >US Space Command were stationed there for several weeks beforehand, >they specialise in the retrieval of objects from space. Both the 40th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron and the 67th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron were based at RAF Woodbridge. US Space Command has a number of differing roles. Which division was stationed at RAF Bentwaters/RAF Woodbridge, when did they arrive and depart and why were they ostensibly there? >Civilian shipping lanes off the coast were closed and made off >limits for several days around the time of the incident. Brenda Butler claimed that, "_Fisherman_ were told to stay away from the area between Bawkey and Orford Ness around the time of the 27th-30th December 1980". What is the evidence in support of either claim? >It is likely that something was brought down from orbit, probably a >Russian spy satellite, or perhaps a prototype vehicle of some sort. There doesn't really seem to be any evidence of this, only tenuous speculation. We have to ask how was it "brought down" and why the base personnel were not told to ignore any "unusual" activity, rather than have them phone the local police. >This may have been the same object as was involved in the Cash >Landrum case in Texas, USA a day or two later. The descriptions of the objects are completely different. >Larry Warren: >He claimed that he had suffered serious radiation sickness and still >did. He said his mother had the medical records. She knew nothing >about it when contacted. No surprise there. >Consider Charles Halt: >If the Air Force didn't want him to be touring UFO conventions, >telling the familiar UFO/alien story, then he wouldn't have been >doing it. He certainly wouldn't have been promoted in such a manner. Halt has never made any claims about "aliens" and to my knowledge, doesn't normally give lectures. >So it would seem that something unusual did take place... Based on the evidence, yes, it was at least unusual. >...but once again, the military are using the convenience of UFOs as >a cover to keep the event obscured by a cloud of delusion. There's still no evidence that anyone knew what the explanation was, particularly for the object apparently encountered in the forest. Maybe it all has a prosaic solution, but the first step is perhaps to remove all of the noise from the picture and then we can maybe take a fresh look at what's there. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:51:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:53:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up At 10:31 27.04.1997 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:54:29 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:37:22 -0400 >>From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> >>To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Lake Ontario Activity - Follow-up >>Hello List. >>Well, here's a revelation!!! >>Anyway, I never _did_ say that these were anything otherworldly, >>just 'Unknowns', or 'Unconventionals'. _Right_?? >No you didn't Jennifer, you only made it 'sound' that way! Are you >connected with CSETI? Maybe I have your posts jumbled in my head >with someone elses. But if I'm correct, then I understand completely >how this could have happened. And BTW, your tone (above) is very >reminiscent of a "young one" that has gotten into trouble and is >trying to avoid being grounded! I have a 24 year old daughter and >a 22 year old son, They'll tell you that I've never let *them* get >away with such nonsense either. I don't care how old you are, you're >grounded for one month! <G> >>So, back to my normal life at last. Iguanas, birds, cats, cars, >>crop circles, pub lunches....and on and on. >Yes, please! >*Last June I got photos of UFO's (at pretty close range >too) that I waited three months to post. Why? Because I thought >they should be analyzed by an expert or two before putting it >out to the world as a "UFO". Wish everybody would do the same, I >know it would save me an awful lot of valuable reading time! Don't >take this personally Jennifer. It's just that the credibilty factor >takes dive bombing drops everytime someone broadcasts UFO sightings >in the heat or excitement of the moment without the benefit of more >experienced eyes and minds. I'd rather hear about a single sighting >a month after the fact, that has had some elements of the case >verified, than hear about fleets of spectacular UFO's that turn out >to be just another,... >"never mind!" >John Velez --------------------------------------------------------- Hi, List: I disagree with John. I prefer to support everyone, who is as encouraged and enthusiastic as Jennifer, even if it turns out to be a false alarm. Specially, if the person admits his/her error as soon as possible. Opposite, real ufo pics waiting a month in some (expert's) box are a real waste of time. All additional signs and/or evidences are 4 weeks old, vanished or "dead" in the meantime, and witnesses had time enough to create phantastic stories. --Alf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:12:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:40:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? Larry Warren has given some interviews which may not be familiar to those outside the UK and which do help place his story in perspective. One such interview was published in the Spring 1995 (Vol 40, No. 1) issue of "Flying Saucer Review". He begins, "I arrived at RAF Bentwaters in England on December 1st 1980. We had the largest nuclear arms dump in all of NATO; it was split between the two bases. I knew that just one of our nuclear weapons could have removed East Anglia with no problem! [Both RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge are now closed - James.] On the night of 26th/27th December, 1980, a police patrol observed lights in Rendlesham Forest. The three airmen involved disappeared for several hours...". The date could actually have been the night of 25th/26th December, but that aside, the three airmen were Sergeant Jim Penniston, Airman John Burroughs and it seems, Kavanasac. In the "Strange But True?" documentary, Burroughs who, with an unnamed colleague which may have been Kavanasac, was on security patrol at the Woodbridge base, near the east gate, recalled, "There were strange lights out in the forest. To me, it almost looked like Christmas lights at first, a Christmas display. At that point we looked at each other and we decided that we'd better go out and take a closer look 'cause we weren't sure what we were dealing with". Burrows and his colleague went back to the gate house and contacted the Security Controller. "Tom", our apparent new witness to some of the events, has named a person whom he refers to as "Central Security Controller". Burrows continued, "He had a lot of trouble believing what I was telling him, because it was Christmas and I had played a lot of jokes on him before". Eventually persuaded, the Security Controller contacted Sergeant Jim Penniston. Penniston takes up the story. "I received a call from the Control Centre to go on down to the east gate and contact John Burroughs. And I asked them what was the nature of the problem down there and they said that they'd rather not tell me, they'd rather have me go down there and talk to the patrol man on the scene. The first thing that came to mind was an aircraft crash. I've had at least 30 or 40 crashes that I had been to at that point in time and that's definitely what I thought it was". Having contacted the Control Centre again and reported a possible aircraft crash, Penniston states, "They notified me that they were tracking an unidentified bogey about 15 minutes ago and they confirmed it with contact with eastern radar and Heathrow in London and the approximate location was about 5 miles off base when they lost contact with it. It was Christmas time and there was no scheduled flying for that night. I got permission to proceed off base to investigate". In the documentary, the narrative claims that, "Following military rules, the Americans had to leave their weapons behind". Now in the forest, Penniston recalls, "I started to see a defined shape and at that point I realised it wasn't an aircraft crash, a fire, or anything of that sort. The air was filled with electricity. You could feel it on your skin as we approached the object". Burroughs adds, "You felt like you were moving in slow motion, your hair on the back of your head was standing up, you felt like you had very little control over your body". An unidentifiable object was then seen. "I wish I had my weapon because I felt totally defenseless", said Burroughs. Penniston describes the object; "It was about the size of a tank, it was triangular in shape. Underneath the craft, was a high intensity white light emanating out of it and it was bordered by red and blue lighting, alternating". With the object stationary, they decided to take a closer look. "On the upper left side of the craft, was an inscription. It measured six inches high, of symbols. They looked familiar, but I couldn't ascertain why", Penniston describes further. They apparently watched the object for some 20 minutes. Suddenly, it was no longer stationary. According to Penniston, "It slowly started moving back, weaving in and around the trees. It got about 40 feet away, then it raised up into the air and it shot off as fast as you could blink". Lieutenant-Colonel Halt has confirmed his apparent recollection of these events. One detailed account he gave was an interview published in the April 1994 issue of OMNI magazine. In this, he states, "Around New Year's Eve, I took statements and interviewed the men who had taken part in the initial incident. Basically, they reported this: In the early morning hours of December 26th [there's that confirmation again - James], one of the airmen drove to the back gate at Woodbridge on a routine security check. He saw lights in the forest, specifically a red light, and thought maybe an airplane had crashed. He radioed a report, which was called into the tower, but the tower reported nobody was flying. Eventually, a group headed out to the forest. They reported strange noises - animals, movement, like we heard two nights later. As they approached the clearing, they reported seeing a large yellowish-white light with a blinking red light on the upper center portion and a steady blue light emanating from underneath. The tower again reported nothing on radar. A few of the men moved to within 20 or 30 feet. Each said the same thing independently - a triangular-shaped metallic object, about nine feet across the base, six feet high, appeared to be sitting on a tripod. They split up, walked around the craft. One of the men apparently tried to get on the craft, but, they said, it levitated up". In the lecture given at Leeds on 31 July 1994, Halt clarified further, "Penniston, Burroughs and Kavanasac hit the ground. Penniston said Burroughs tried to get on the object". Returning to the interview published in OMNI; "All three of the guys hit the ground as the craft moved quickly in a zigzagging manner through the woods toward the field, hitting some trees on the way. They got up and approached again, but the object rose up, and then it disappeared at great speed. Finally, on January 13, 1981, I wrote a memo to the British Ministry of Defense. Despite my efforts, to my knowledge, no one from any intelligence or government agency ever came on base to investigate". Halt explains further, "I have never sought the limelight, nor have I hidden. I stand to receive no financial benefit from this interview but consented because it's time the truth came out. I don't know what those objects were. I don't know anybody who does. But _something_ as yet unexplained happened out there". Now returning to Larry Warren's story, so far, his claims that, "On the night of 26th/27th December, 1980, a police patrol observed lights in Rendlesham Forest. The three airmen involved disappeared for several hours...", are relatively consistent. However, he continues the sentence, "and according to two of them, they had been abducted". Warren's story immediately seems to lose credibility. When have either Burroughs, Penniston or Kavanasac ever claimed they were "abducted"? Speaking of his own experiences on the supposed third night, which he dates "28/29 December", Warren states, "That's when I became involved. Our security group was called out, we boarded our military pick-up trucks, and entered Rendlesham Forest". Warren's account of his experiences appears to be a hotchpotch of other stories. For example, speaking of events he allegedly observed in the open field, known as Capel Green, he claims, "Suddenly, in place of the mist, there was a more solid looking object". Importantly, he affirms, "At this point Sgt. Bustinza, myself, a disaster-preparedness man, and my shift commander, were ordered to move in on this object". Furthermore, "Shortly afterwards, we were ordered back to our original position. At that point the whole object was surrounded by our security police at intervals of about ten feet" and "two British 'bobbies' [policemen] were still taking pictures, but then I saw their cameras taken away from them". Bustinza came forward as a witness following the publication of "Sky Crash", co-authored by Jenny Randles, Brenda Butler and Dot Street, and, I believe, the first book to be published on the case. According to Timothy Good, in "Above Top Secret", on 15 April 1984, Bustinza related his version of events to American researchers Ray Boeche and Scott Colborn. His account, detailed in the book, relates solely to events in Rendlesham forest and which involved, amongst others, Halt, Sergeant Ball, Lieutenant Bruce Englund and himself. This was when the tape recording was apparently made. He claims that those present were ordered to form a perimeter, at some 15 feet intervals, around an object viewed in the forest and also that later there were two 'bobbies' present who had taken some film, which Halt ordered to be confiscated. Also apparently present with Halt, Bustinza and the others was Sergeant Nevells, the non-commissioned officer assigned to the Disaster Preparedness Operations. Warren seems to have taken all of this - the presence of Bustinza, a "disaster-preparedness man", being ordered to move in on the object, surrounding the object at fixed intervals, the two policemen who had their film confiscated, and transported it all to a different location! Let's be quite clear about this, Warren's supposed encounter at Capel Green was an entirely separate event from that which took place in the forest. As Warren confirmed when interviewed for the "Network First" U.K. TV documentary, broadcast in January, 1995, "I'm standing in Rendlesham Forest, where on December 28th to 29th, 1980, just behind me, Colonel Halt and a group of NCO's and officers had their sighting of events which is recorded on the tape that he made that night, about a quarter mile that way. My event took place right here, heading toward this farmer's field". Bustinza refutes Warren's claims that he [Bustinza] was part of the same group which were taken by truck to Capel Green. In turn, Halt refutes Bustinza'a claim that film was confiscated. Timothy Good writes that during October, 1986, he spoke with Halt and was told, "That's not true. I suspect time has clouded his memory. I confiscated nothing from anyone - I had no authority to. We were guests in your country. I can tell you that your bobbies wouldn't probably have given them to me if I'd asked". There's no obvious reason why the British police force would be invited to participate in the events which Warren describes at Capel Green and that's obviously a precept which applies to Warren himself. Adding to the confusion, he states, "According to other witnesses, a smaller triangular object appeared after I was gone. It was so small that one of the personnel grabbed the object by putting his arms around it. The object then moved about ten metres with him holding on to it". This would appear to be a story based on Burroughs' adventures at a different location and on a previous night. In her recent, and highly recommended, book "UFO Retrievals" [ISBN: 0-7137-2493-5] Jenny Randles reviews the case and notes that Warren initially described an "aspirin" [tablet] shaped object and did not refer to any aliens appearing until after he was hypnotically regressed by Dr Fred Max. If Larry Warren did have any involvement in events at the time, and that remains questionable, the value of any evidence he had to offer looks to have been lost in a jumble of confusion. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 20:33:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:11:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists >Some volunteers from the UFO group here are coming to my home to help >move all my UFO files and book collection to higher ground. I was >sandbagging some homes one block away from us last night. It's - er - >interesting, to say the least. Hang in there Chris. We're all thinking about you folks out there. God speed. Paul. Paul (Twigman) Wedel !-:-) There are many paths through the forest, they all lead to the other side.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 PROJECT-1947 - Arnold as a 'Boise Boys' Hoax From: Edoardo Russo <erusso@TORINO.ALPCOM.IT> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:16:37 +0001 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:17:15 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Arnold as a 'Boise Boys' Hoax Hi Jan and all! A few days ago somebody asked himself whether Arnold's report might have been a hoax. This reminded me of an article I read more than 10 years ago, so I went and found it. Since I never found it mentioned any longer and i've since remained with the curiosity, I'm submitting you the story, wondering who else had read it in "UFO Research Australia Newsletter" (UFORAN, one of the best UFO journals down under) in 1984. Its author was veteran Australian ufologist Bill Chalker, whom I understand is or was among this list's members, isn't he? Well, UFORAN published a well-done summary of the 1947 UFO Wave in its vol. 5 no. 3 issue (dated May-June 1984), pages 4-16, by a John Burford, titled "Western USA - 1947: the Beginnings". Around the end of the article, Burford noted that some of the main characters in the early days of the wave were strangely connected with each other, but concluded: "As for the sightings by Arnold, Johnson and the United Airlines crew, their common connnection with Boise, Idaho, is probably circumstantial an I will not allege conspiracy on such hin evidence. I do find hard to accept that sich a small group of connected people should share such spectacularly strange experiences in so short a space of time." In the following issue (vol. 3 no. 6, July-August, 1984) Bill Chalker had a short article published in the "Forum" column (pages 6-7), titled "Flying Saucers - the Boise Boys' Legacy?", telling of his recent reading of Arthur Koestler's book "Janus - A Summing Up", where he had found the sentence "the term 'ufology' was coined by Air Marshal sir Victor Goddard in 1946". The anomaly of that 1946 took Chalker to Goddard's own book "Flight Towards Reality" (1975), where he told he had been at a naval hospital near Washington, DC, in 1946 (when Goddard was the RAF representative at the Pentagon), for a broken leg, when he met a U.S. Navy Captain from Boise, Idaho. That man told him the favoutite leisure pastime of the government "upper set" of Boise, Idaho (then a haven for VIPs): a cult of high elaborate pranking. "The idea was that locals might start a scare in the headlines of l=ECthe local press and see to what extent 'ex-Boise Boys', scattered by migration through all other States, would emulate and make the scare a national one", thus giving the originators their pay-off via the mass media diffusion of their story. So when, no longer after he heard this, Godard saw a news item with a Boise dateline, referring to "flying saucers" over Boise, etc., he told his wife: "the Boise Bos have started something now". But when one of the pilots of fighter planes sent to investigate died in his plane crash, Goddard felt "A joke's a joke, but this has gone too far", called his U.S. colleague General Spaatz and told him the "Boise Boys" anecdote. Spaatz rang the President Truman and the "saucer search" was called off. A brief mention of that story was also done by Goddard in his speech at a meeting of "Contact International" in London, on May 3, 1969, as reported by Charles Bowen in his article "UFOs and Psychic Pheno- mena", Flying Saucer Review vol. 15 no. 4, July-August 1969, pp. 22-25, but I can't remember having ever encountered elsewhere, nor having ever read of anybody trying to verify it. As Chalker wrote in 1984: "There surely must be researchers in the U.S. in a position to determine with certainty whether the initial wave with Arnold and others was solidly based in real observations of bona fide UFOs. Is there someone out ther who can answer this?" 13 years have passed since then, but I'm afraid U.S. colleagues were never even aware of its existence. And I might add that some UK ufologist might also try and verify the British side of the story, if yet possible. Not that I believe it to be the real trigger of the wave, but... a good investigator should never leave a clue uninvestigated, shouldn't he? If nothing else, as us Italians say, "se non e' vero e' ben trovato" (if that's not true, it's well invented). I remain waiting for my decade-old curiosity to be satisfied by somebody out there, beyond the Pond. Of course, if anybody need a photocopy of the item, just ask me for it. Best regards Edoardo Russo Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:23:01 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:42:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI At 01:22 27-04-97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 01:22:08 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:21:59 -0500 >>>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >======================= >I originally wrote, >>>> I reiterate, Greer is backed by big money. If he is "investing" >>>> anything, it's someone elses $. No one but Greer and a few of >>>> his cronies know how much was spent and with whom. I expect >>>> some accountability from people who *designate themselves* >>>> (my representative) in front of elected officials. Doesn't >>>> this bother anyone else? He set himself up as 'the peoples >>>> rep[resentative' in Washington! >Hi Henny, hi All, >Henny, I'm going to respond to your comments because there are many >Europeans on this list, and just in case any of them share your >"Hollywood" ideas about Americans and their "values" I offer this >response to you for your (and their) edification. My comments about money and influence were not based on a 'Hollywood' idea of America. For your edification they were based on first hand experience in Europe. >Henny wrote, >>About Greer. >>Greer may not be the electorally chosen representative >>of the UFO field, but I can't remember any election. >That was one of my points Henny. Had Greer openly solicited the >participation of others in the field he would have garnered much >more support than he has even now. Voting on things and including >others' oppinions and points of view is what "ideally" democracy is >about. Dictators appoint themselves, that's not how we like to see >things done on our end of the rock. I and the rest of this list know enough about politics to have to read stuff like this. Greer apparently has enough support already from others who are involved in UFOs to be influencing politicians. >>What Greer does is on his own initiative, because he >>thinks what he does is important. >That's an open question Henny. I'm still trying to find out if he >thinks what he's doing is important, or if he's trying to "be" >important. That's an important issue. The same can be said of anyone's participation in this field. >>Greer on his own has achieved what politicians in Washington >>are listening to him and for the first time in 30 years >>there is a serious chance of open Congressional hearings >>on UFOs. This is more than 500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, >>15,000 UFO researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day have >>achieved. >Henny we *all* stand on the shoulders of those who came before us! >Greer has added nothing new to 'ufology'. In fact the very data >that he presents in Washington came from the sweat and dedication >of those very individuals you so casually dismiss as impotent, and >as having contributed nothing. Shame on you! They have contributed a lot, but have been totally impotent to gain credibility in established circles. Sad, but true. >>Those who have problems with big money should consider this. >>What Greer understands is that the UFO field does not >>need more evidence, more cases and more debate, but more money >>and more influence. >You're kidding right? This is a patently uninformed remark if >you're serious! If it's a joke, I'm not laughing. I'm not kidding. There is enough evidence for the existence of UFOs to fill a block of warehouses. If you want to do research, find more cases. If you want to influence politics, the issue is not evidence at all. That is exactly what I mean. >>In the real world, evidence does not matter, influence does. >Yeah Henny, money talks, bulls**t walks! It's partially due to >attitudes such as this that the world is so screwed up. It seems you want to inform the establishment that UFOs exist, which is almost impossible, and change the world on the same day, which is totally impossible. >>Political influence in Washington does not >>come from books at Barnes and Noble, but from bringing >>big money to the table. >You may be 100% correct, but as an American I want to tell you >what *I* think of influence peddling, and all the money >peddlers in Washington. I don't care what you think of them. (Text deleted) >I'm an American "anyone" Henny. I didn't vote for Bubba! I think Bubba >and Hillary belong behind bars along with all the others who share their >moral values and outlook on life. Then maybe we can backtrack and put that >gutter snake Bush into a cell along side the Clintons! They can >swap Hillary for 'Kools' in the cell block every night after that for all >I care. Well, what can I say. John, you probably don't realize it but attitudes such as these are the reason why all US military bases were on a hightened state of alert on the day of the anniversary of the Oklahoma city bombing. And two hundred thousand e-mails were flying over the net to ask if there was a huge ET mothership photographed by a satellite, because why else was NORAD on DEFCON-4 and what the hell DEFCON-4 was. >>This is an environment where fancy dinners, limo's with >>drivers and quid pro quo are part of everyday life. >You just listed all of the things that "most Americans" think is >wrong with the way things are done in Washington DC! Don't you find your >own words offensive? I did! Or do you think that it's okay to do business >that way? BTW, you forgot to mention prostitution! Some of these >distinguished gentlemen of wealth, power, and influence that you admire >so much have the morals and virtues of common thieves and muggers. But >then I guess you'd just say that's okay too. After all, "Money talks,..." Look, I know these things are wrong, any fool knows they are wrong, they have always been wrong, they will always be wrong. But if you think corruption in US political circles in anything new you should read more history and get a sense of perspective first. The point is that things are as they are and you have to play by the rules or you don't play. It's as simple as that. I think your unability to cope with this aspect of reality explains why you are not talking to Washington politicians while Greer is. >>By letting himself be backed by big money, Greer at least >>shows that he is a man of the world and understands this. >I'd like to take all of these "men of the world" as you call them, (text deleted for irrelevance) > Until this guy and his organisation start acting like a >"part of the UFO community" he can't expect much in the way of support >from grassroots guys like me. I don't trust him based on his own past >words and actions. Tell me why in hell I should trust him now! So you have already defined for us who the so called "UFO community" is and what it should do. Well, so much for democracy. I'd say stick to your grassroots. >The point of your e-mail seems to be, "Hey man, this cat is a real >swinger who has a lot of the right grease and knows how to play the >game, we should all just jump on the bandwagon and back his play" Let him play, not back his play. If you have read my earlier mail carefully I said you should not try to stop him but correct his errors when the attention of Congress and the media are there. Getting Washington to listen to abduction stories etc. is difficult enough. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Just a Question..... of balloons From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:48:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:36:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Just a Question..... of balloons At 21:28 27.04.1997 -0400, Linda Cortile wrote: >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:08 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Just a Question >Hello List: >A few months ago, a friend and I went to have coffee at the South Street >Seaport, here on Manhattan Island. It was a clear, but very windy day. >We watched the seagulls fly around, when suddenly we saw 3 oval, red >tinted objects dirft across the sky. It seemed as though the wind didn't >effect them. They drifted against the wind going towards Brooklyn or >Queens. >At first we thought they were balloons a child might've lost. However, >if that was the case, they would've drifted with the wind. These things had >weight to them. >My question is: What shape is a weather balloon and do they come > in colors? >I very rarely look up, so I don't know. The last time I looked up was in >1989 and I was sorry. >Thanks, >Linda Cortile --------- Hi Linda: Weather balloons are orange, at least in Germany, Austria, Swiss, Russia, or Japan. And: the wind at the ground might have a different direction than in 2-12 km, even opposite. -- Alf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Just a Question..... of balloons From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 01:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:36:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Just a Question..... of balloons >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:08 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Just a Question [snip] >My question is: What shape is a weather balloon >and do they come in colors? Hi Linda, Weather balloons come in all sorts of sizes and colors so there's no telling or giving a set pattern or "type" here. Also, some balloons, depending on their altitude and material they're made of, expand to up to three times their "normal" size. One must also count for the fact that wind directions change and vary at different altitiudes. At 500 feet the wind might be blowing south, but at 600 it might be going North! Hope this helps. Sincerely, Kal Korff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Just a Question..... of balloons From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:39:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Just a Question..... of balloons >From: Alfred Breull <Puma@hannover.sgn-net.de> >Date: Mon,28 Apr. 1997 06:48:38 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <UpDates@globelserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Just a Question...of Balloons Hello Alf: As I've written to Kal, (who has also sent me some helpful info), that whatever it was we saw, travelled in 3's. There were three of them drifting in the sky together, going against the wind. It was an extremely windy day. Now I understand (thanks to you and Kal) that the wind varies according to height and/or ground level, etc. But do weather balloons travel in 3's? Despite what has happened to me in the past, I have never seen a UFO full faced. Just the underside of one. I do hope that what we've seen on that windy day was weather balloons. Thanks so much for your input. Warm regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: CSETI - Washington State P.O.V From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:31:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:17:46 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI - Washington State P.O.V >From: KAnder6444@aol.com >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:29:47 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Just one opinion >Dear Ed and all, >I have been quitely reading and absorbing all that is being >said about CSETI. I hope that no one will take offense to my >comments as they are, after all, are only my opinion. ....snip.... JC: Kathleen, I think your post was basically a good one. >I am originally a Connecticut Yankee who has a Dad that just turned >into a southern Baptist. I can tell you what my Dad would say. He >thinks just because I am an "investigator" that I am playing with >the Devil. If I was to discuss most of the information that I have >learned, he would be sending out some little guys in white coats. >And darn it they wouldn't be "aliens". Sometimes when I think about >it perhaps maybe we all are. >Just my opinion............ >Kathleen Andersen >State Section Director - MUFON Washington State >U.S. Coordinator for Brisbane '97 UFO Conference - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: ...and you are certainly entitled to it. However, if we are all completely crazy then, amongst other things, how do you explain the painstakingly researched and accurate information residing at http://www.li.net/~rjcohen ? Why on earth do those recorded events exist at all? Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:41:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:22:37 -0400 Subject: Re: 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing At 06:03 PM 4/27/97 -0400, you wrote: >I usually try not to post un-attributted material >to the List - 'MUFON Staff' means nothing to me and >is a very odd name for a spokesperson. >The lack of an _only_ reason it _is_ posted here is >for reaction from 'name' staff who've been known >to frequent UpDates. Dennis Stacy? >ebk Errol- I wrote back to this address and learned that MUFONHQ is a common addres s for use by the UFO Coalition and MUFON. I learned that this address reaches "Tom Deuley,. . . .administrator for the Coalition, and also Walt Andrus' assistant at MUFON". Thought I'd mention it. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 MUFON Members? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:21:02 -0400 Subject: MUFON Members? To list members, I would like all list members who are MUFON members, to email me privately please. Please do not respond to the list, as that would just create a bunch of work for Errol. Remember this is not an automated list but one that Errol spends a lot of time on resending the mail we send him. I am trying to gather a list of email addresses of MUFON Members. If you are a state director, SSD, FI, FIT, or whatever I would like to know that as well. The list will only be used by me and not sent or sold to anyone else. I promise not to fill your mail box with junk email but you will receive ONE piece of email from me after you have sent me you name. Please do not assume that I know that you are a MUFON member because I may know you personally. Thanks in advance, Rebecca (Schatte) Keith xiannekei@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:15:38 +1200 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:14:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Manitoba Floods Affect Ufologists I have just seen a short clip on our TV news that a one part of Canada has been evacuated due to the floods and that others are still threatened. To Chris Rutkowski I hope that you come out of this okay. The thoughts of your research colleages (internationaly) are wishing you a safe passage through such troublesome times. -- Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Misunderstandings? From: Jennifer Jarvis <jarvis@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:12:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:48:27 -0400 Subject: Misunderstandings? Hello List! Okay, John Velez, I know that I promised you that I wouldn't post here again, but I would just like to make some comments re. our lake shore observations of recent weeks. The EXPERT, who lives in the U.K., had never seen any video, and has never been to our neck of the woods. He is a kind gentleman who feels that maybe the orange lights, orbs or whatever, are planes, whose appearances are distorted by atmospheric conditions. Now, this may be of some interest, or not. We have continued watching the same location, and NOT A SINGLE ORB HAS APPEARED SINCE THE NIGHT OF APRIL 19TH. However, zillions of planes have come along in that time, be assured!! Another point that I would like to add is that on APRIL 9th, our evening of MEGA ACTIVITY, when these objects were submerging into the lake, I believe that the SOLAR FLARE had caused some problems with communications, and that the Space Shuttle was postponed. Coincidence? Who knows? Well, all we know is that these objects were coming in thick and fast, as if in EMERGENCY MODE. Connection? Who knows? Anyway, I'll try not to post here again, as our stuff doesn't really fit in with normal UFO UPDATES material. UFO UPDATES seems to be more of a discussion group/forum thing for political issues, etc. Thanks for your time. J.Jarvis -- "BEAM ME UP ! ! !" ^ ^ O O ( " ) \ ! / \ / "There's nothing happening down here! Well...not much! ....certainly no INTELLIGENT life." However, on another NOTE.......QUEEN RULES...THE SHOW MUST GO ON !!!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Question for Updates From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Apr 97 08:11:14 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:53:58 -0400 Subject: Question for Updates Over the weekend I had a visit from a friend who is an optical physicist and designer of photographic equipment. He did not know of my interest in UFOs, but noticed a copy of _Beyond Roswell_ on my coffee table, and started talking about Roswell. He thinks it was a secret Soviet craft of some sort based on hearing that Jesse Marcel, Jr., identified the I-Beam markings as Cyrillic writing. (I have no idea where he heard that, and he did not recall). Anyway, he brought up something I had not heard of and I wondered if anyone here has heard this or knows anything about it. He said that he had seen "the photos of the Roswell bodies" years ago in an old TRUE magazine. "Of course those photos have been lost," was his other comment about them. Needless to say, this fellow and Phil Klass would get along just fine, but I am left wondering about the photos he saw. Does anyone on this list know what he was talking about? Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Jupiter-like planet found far from Earth From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:36:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:44:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Jupiter-like planet found far from Earth Jupiter-like planet found far from Earth 05:54 p.m Apr 25, 1997 Eastern WASHINGTON, April 25 (Reuter) - A huge, hot planet about the size of Jupiter has been discovered orbiting a star far from Earth, bolstering the notion that other planets like ours exist, scientists reported on Friday. The big planet was spotted orbiting Rho Coronae Borealis, a star in the constellation Northern Crown, about 50 light-years -- 300 trillion miles (480 trillion km) -- from Earth, according to the scientists. The orbiting body is much closer to its star than Earth is to the Sun, and this implies that its temperature would be more than 500 degrees F (about 260 degrees C), much too hot for liquid water to exist and therefore not a likely place for life to form, the researchers said. ``This discovery helps show that giant planets like Jupiter may be reasonably common around ordinary stars,'' said Robert Noyes of the Smithsonian Institution's Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts, one of three institutions sharing the discovery. ``It is exciting to think that there may be many smaller planets much more like the Earth in orbit around these stars, as in our own solar system,'' Noyes said in a statement. In the last two years, astronomers have found what they believe to be about a dozen planet-like bodies outside the Earth's solar system. +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl | | | | World Online bv. tel. (+31) 035 - 699 87 00 | | Gooimeer 1D fax (+31) 035 - 695 11 99 | | Postbus 5222 | | 1410 AE Naarden http://www.worldonline.nl | | the Netherlands | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 PROJECT-1947 - Arnold as a 'Boise Boys' Hoax From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:23:07 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Arnold as a 'Boise Boys' Hoax Dear Edoardo, To reply to your message below..... >a few days ago somebody asked himself >whether Arnold's report might have been a hoax. As part of a presentation I will be giving at the Brisbane Australia conference in October - "The Myth and Mystery of the Pacific Northwest", will be, of course, our most famous case here, Kenneth Arnold. I must say this is the first I have heard about the Boise Boys Club. There are others researchers such as Greg Long who are more versed than myself on Ken Arnold and I will pass your message to him for his comments. Greg Long was one of the last investigators to speak to Arnold before his death. If indeed it was an "adult" prank it would not explain other sightings that have regularly occur here in Washington state in the past 50 years. Dating back 50 years, there are many reports and sightings above all our volcanoes. The validity of the Maury Island crash at that same time does have some dubious shadows however. Last summer we received a report from a hiker who had reported a UFO above one of the trails. As I hike myself at Mt.Rainier during the summer, I asked a few rangers if there was any unusual occurances. Three rangers told me that two weeks prior about 20 different people told of seeing either a UFO or plane above the Little Borroughs trail. Coincidentally, our caller gave his reporting in the same time frame. It is often times hard to follow up on situations like this. And of course I never see anything when I am there! It is not a comfortable position to walk up to a group of rangers and ask "have you seen any UFO's lately". When I did ask the entire visitors lodge went totally silent. Crawling under the desk seemed like a refreshing possibility at that moment! Most likely any unusal sightings go unreported. There is another little known case here of a plane crash that happened near Mt. Rainier and at that time there were a number of calls from people stating they had seen small circular objects near the aircraft. I am currnetly doing followup on that case as well. The Pacific Northwest with its volcanoes, rain forest, mysterious light balls, Big Foot and yes even a "batsquatch" can stand on its own merits of mystery even without Arnold's sightings. Will keep you posted if anyone finds any more information about the "Boise Boy's Club". Kathleen Andersen Seattle Washington Mufon State Section Director - King County U.S. Coorindator for Brisbane 97'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Apr 97 08:11:12 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:10:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: Jeroen Jansen <edzmath@bart.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:35:12 -0400 (EDT)> >I return to this subject because I forgot >to take into account in my calculations >I posted earlier today the width of Meier's >film, which is about 35 mm. Jeroen, Nope. A miss is as good as a mile! 35 mm film, as used by Meier is 35 mm wide. However, the image area which is what matters unless the full film is reproduced with edge markings and sprocket holes, is nominally 24 X 36 mm. Camera makers, however, do not use a standardized film aperture, so in practice this varies considerably depending on brand and model of camera. Add to this that Meier used slide film, and if the printed reproduction was made from a mounted slide (Wendelle Stevens told me that Meier's slides were all mounted), slide mounts cut off the borders of the image, and this varies with the brand and type of the slide mount. So, without the original in hand, there is no way to really know image dimensions with any accuracy. Also, if working from a picture in a book, you would need to know if the picture, as reproduced, is full frame or cropped, and if cropped, by what percentage. Trying to do any sort of precise calculations, in this case, is an exercise in futility. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Greer From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:16:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:37:21 -0400 Subject: Greer The following is a brief on Greer's move into the limelight. Greer's early funding by Laurence Rockefeller was via Scott Jones' Human Potential Foundation, who routed $20,000 in early 1994. After Jones fell out with Laurence, Greer luckily was picked up, as cause celebre' under New York socialite "Bootsie" Galbraith, wife of Evan Galbraith, the Reagan era US Ambassador to France. Evan Galbraith is an importer of "Moet" beverages. That association attracted further funding by Laurence, which was routed via BSW Foundation in New York. BSW was/is apparently a private foundation for dabbling modest monies of Daphne Wood, another socialite and "New Ager". In the JY Ranch gathering, which was organised by Scott Jones, funded by Laurence in September 1993, via Human Potential Foundation, the idea was to give Laurence a "big picture" of "UFOs", or the eager participants were told as such. The participants were John Mack, Steven Greer, Bruce Maccabee, Leo Sprinkle, Linda Moulton Howe, Keith thompson, Laurence, and a few of his friends from New York City [not of UFO community], Scott Jones, Henry Diamond [Laurence's attorney], Bob Teets, and Dick Farley. They stayed in the ranch for two nights. The main founders obtained the expected result and the enthusiasm they were seeking for. The destiny of UFO community and its "peers" was given yet another "boost" in the arm, in a well-thought, well-planned manner, and the crowd continues to cheer. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:57:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! Re: > Date: 26 Apr 97 10:21:00 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Shocks with Nearsight Institute Release! Bob, > >Are we to assume that you perfected this technique _after_ > >your early investigations into the 'alien autopsy' footage? > ROFL! > Yep, the technique was perfected well after my early > investigations into this case. > Wanna be an honorary faculty member of the Nearsight > Institute?? Okay, but do I still get to wear blinkers? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Rendlesham From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:07:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:32:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Rendlesham >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:16:31 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: Rendlesham >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> [...] >I recently received some mail which would certainly qualify as >unexpected. Headed "Rendlesham", it read: >"You have most of the facts correct, I was there, I saw the object. >It did happen, if you need more info, let me know, for the most part >you have the main details. >[...] >I am glad to finally see it got out. I had no idea that it had. They >told us to be quiet". >The mail wasn't anonymous and the writer confirmed their position and >period of service at RAF Bentwaters. >I've since corresponded with him and have spoken to him at length on >the telephone. Another, or possibly the same, individual made a similar comment on usenet two weeks ago (alt.ufo.reports): "I recently saw and old friend on TV speaking about an incident which happened at Eastgate. I had no idea that it had gotten to the public. As a member of the responding SPs that day, I can tell all of you enthusiast out there that it really did happen, I was there and I saw it. It really did!" I asked him by email for some clarification (eg which night, and what his role was) and he replied simply: "The penniston incident, I was a responding policeman, we saw the lights in the trees near the back gate, We were looking for Penniston, who basically dissappeared for three hours." If you would like this individual's email address for a follow-up, email me (or simply dejanews for it.) -- Geoff Price Geoff@CalibanMW.com -- Geoff Price Software Engineer Caliban Mindwear Geoff@CalibanMW.com http://www.CalibanMW.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 19:37:11 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:02:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >Date: 26 Apr 97 10:20:58 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >[Jeroen Jansen] >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 16:28:58 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >>In light of Meier's proponents here, I suppose there are those >>among us who would make the case that George Adamski's >>remarkably >similar contactee accounts (also with photos!) are >>equally valid >-- even though, through the *real* scientific >>discoveries made by the widely lambasted (by UFO True >>Believers) Carl Sagan, disproved Adamski's Venusian bunkum once >>and for all. >Vince, >You mean Adamski wasn't REAL??????? >You leave me in tears, my whole belief system >shattered. >Bob I'm still waiting patiently for you to answer my repeated challenges for you and the "IRT" to reveal your reasons for taking the alien autopsy video seriously in light of all the demonstrable bunkum offered-up by Ray Santilli. Is it a secret? Or would it just be too darned embarassing for you to list your reasons, on the record, in a public forum? It is curious -- you're so eager to adopt Santilli's fraud as your own, yet you're skeptical of another ufological bunko artist -- Billy Meier. Does this mean that Meier wasn't in the market for a PR flack? Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:27:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:21:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'MUFON HQ'? Responds To Greer Hearing > I usually try not to post un-attributted material > to the List - 'MUFON Staff' means nothing to me and > is a very odd name for a spokesperson. < snip > > ebk > ________________________________________________ > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:19:42 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: MUFON HQ Responds To Greer Hearings > MUFON Responds to Greer and CSETI > I received this public statement mailed from MUFON headquarters > in response to Steven Greer's and CSETI's activities related to > hearings in Congress. I want to thank MUFON for coming out and > airing their concerns. I hope FUFOR and CUFOS will do the same. > I have asked the CSETI folks to post their concerns, hopefully > following soon after this post. > I think it will be very healthy to air our concerns in as a > non-adversarial way as possible.(ha ha) > The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) Here are my comments on the memo section by section. Just to set the stage: 1) I don't belong to any of these fine groups at present. 2) I may or may not in the future. 3) The provenance of the memo is important to some of the issues I raise below. 4) I think that Ed Komarek should provide information on where this email originated from and/or contact the organization(s)or individual(s) that created it to provide confirmation of its authenticity. Gary > ************************************************ > Date: Sat, Apr 26, 1997 11:33 PM EDT > From: MUFON HQ > Subj: Re: Fwd: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI > To: Ed Komarek > * > MUFON wants every one on this list to know that Greer is > not the only person, or group that is trying to work on > capital hill. Interesting MUFON never has seen fit to address the members of this list (UFO UpDates) before. Now it chooses to do so in an unattributable way. One ought to ask oneself, why now? Why anonymously? > The UFO Research Coalition has been working for over two > years at grooming contacts in Washington, and we are sure > Greer was aware of that. MUFONHQ knows that he knows that they know. So what? That's no revelation with regard to the relationship between the organizations. This statement begs the issue of informing the reader of any relationship or prior interaction between the two organizations - MUFONHQ and CSETI. > It has been brought to our > attention that the briefing document Greer used look very > much like the one we paid to have put together. If he did > use our material he did it without permission and against > our wishes. An unnamed source informs MUFONHQ that Greer's briefing document "looks very much like the one we paid to have put together" So what does MUFONHQ do here. It issues a veiled, unsubstantiated accusation that Greer misappropriated MUFONHQ's document. Without having made any attempt to determine if in fact the MUFONHQ document was misappropriated, MUFONHQ states "IF he..." the purpose of this is to create in the readers mind the idea that Greer did something wrong before there is any proof of this. > We have not fully assessed the impact of Greer's > overstated claims, or the validity of the claimed > witnesses he presented, but our suspicion is that he has > set back our 2 years of efforts, creating work instead of > making progress. MUFONHQ without having detailed information on what transpired at the conference (see the last paragraph) attacks Greer; his claims are "overstated", his witnesses may not be what they are claimed to be. They state that they feel, "our suspicion" is that he has undermined MUFONHQ's two years of efforts. The reader should ask why is MUFONHQ issuing a statement before making a full assessment, particularly when that assessment is negative? > Since the press seemed to ignore the > Greer move we hope that this is an indicator that only a > little damage was done. MUFONHQ further attempts to discredit Greer by claiming that his briefing was a failure, MUFONHQ makes an unsubstantiated claim that Greer was ignored by the press. (I saw TV coverage in my area on a national network program - Strange Universe). The intent here is to create in the unknowing reader's mind the impression that Greer is ineffectual. Of course MUFONHQ conveniently ignores the fact that this meeting was described in advance by Greer/CSETI as a background briefing only for selected/invited members of the press and not a news or press conference intended for release of information to the public. > If Greer really wants to do something, he needs to persuade > his money support to get behind our effort, so we can make > some real progress with a common sense, conservative, well > thought through planned approach using people that know > there way around, and know how to conduct themselves. Now MUFONHQ lays out its own agenda for the reader. Greer should have gotten his backer's money behind MUFONHQs effort. They know the ropes, the way around and how to conduct this effort; however unfortunately they don't know how to proofread their memo, the word their is spelled as there. (Just thought I'd mention). > Any one having deep detail as to what went on in Washington; > who was there, by name and position, and who said what, or > any other details that would allow us to make a damage > assessment, it would be appreciated if you would pass it to > us. > MUFON Staff This is a fascinating request from MUFONHQ. What this says is that even though they did not have substantiated information in detail they thought it was appropriate to insinuate negative things about Greer's documentation, claims, witnesses, etc. Then MUFONHQ requests that "any one having deep detail" i.e. a participant at the meeting provide information (with a collections requirement) "names and position, and who said what" on this meeting which was closed to MUFONHQ. One can also anticipate that the individual(s) who do provided this information to MUFONHQ will be recruited to provide this information on an ongoing basis. Who says there is no intrigue or intelligence work being done in ufology today. A few nice examples of disinformation and misinformation here and there, even a request for intelligence report on the meeting with collection requirements (after reading this memo it doesn't seem hard to imagine why MUFONHQ was not invited!) Why this memo even provides a likely scenario for the recruitment of the person providing information to MUFONHQ for the past meeting. I don't think its likely after the attitudes revealed in this memo that MUFONHQ will be invited to future conferences or parties either! So if MUFONHQ gets a taker to snitch on the CSETI meeting (MUFONHQs appeal of conscience is that Greer is damaging MUFONHQs "work on capital hill"; MUFONHQ will probably recruit the source to provide them information in the future, on the next conference MUFONHQ is not invited to. We'll know that if we don't see more of these "public appeal" memos. Unfortunately MUFONHQ never sees fit to inform the reader in the memo what they have been doing on "capital hill" for two years or provide a cogent arguement as to why they are better at it than CSETI. Will MUFONHQ please standup and spell your name(s). Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Sudbury, Ontario Sighting Reports From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:23:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:23:37 -0400 Subject: Sudbury, Ontario Sighting Reports I received the following via Chucc Corville, in Sudbury, northern Ontario this morning. They're from Michel M. Deschamps, MUFON Ontario's Sudbury Section Director. ebk _________________________________________________ >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:23:17 -0400 >From: Gordon Courville <gccorvil@cyberbeach.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Michel Deschamps [Forwarded from Michel M. Deschamps] Todd Fraser and I got word of a UFO sighting near one of our local hot spots: Date: Saturday, February 1, 1997 Location: Whitefish, Ontario A man was up watching sports on TV until 12:40 a.m. when he noticed a yellow light coming through the kitchen window. When he looked out the window, he noticed two quarter-moon-shaped objects hovering about 100 feet in the air over the neighbour's property (The property is located on the opposite side of the street, across from the house). The objects were slightly blocked from view by tall trees in the foreground. As he watched the UFOs, the thought of reaching for his rifle crossed his mind, but then, he decided to go into the living room instead, where the large bay window offered a better view of the event. But by the time he got there, the two objects were gone. About a week later, the witness's son and daughter-in-law, who reside in Cochrane, Alberta, observed a similar sighting of two quarter-moon-shaped UFOs. No details on that one. Our investigation is on-going. *************** Date: Thursday, April 3, 1997: Location: Wikwemikong Indian Reserve, Manitoulin Island, Ontario I received a call from a man who told me the following: In the early hours of the morning, unable to sleep, he happened to look out of his living room window and noticed a yellow, saucer-shaped object a few degrees above the horizon. In the foreground stood a street light. The time was approximately 4:00 a.m. and the sky was overcast. He estimated the size of the object to be about half a cigarette held at arm's length. He also said that at one point, the light blinked out for half a second or so, then reappeared. Soon after, the object disappeared from view. When he told his girlfriend about his sighting the next day, she said it must have been the northern lights. He responded by saying that the UFO was in the southern part of the sky and the northern lights usually occur in the northern sky. NOTE: Don't forget to send these to UFO ROUNDUP. Thanks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Alfred's Odd Ode #130 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:43:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:15:22 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #130 Apology to MW #130 (For April 29, 1997) Though awake to a fear that has captured the soul. Though beyond all accounting, though beyond all control. The horror is lurking a half turn from you; Do the hard looking, and be fearful, too. Some blather glass flow, or drunk driving glower. An evasion of inquest is the purpose of cowards. The Re:=92s in the news groups may fan at the bottom; And defeat any clarity, just add to the flotsam. Imrie and Rogers have made their assumptions. Spedding and Twitch are of similar compunction. Together they push with unreasoning fear; The better safe course of debunking to steer. I=92m not a believer with stars in my eyes. It=92s not the true skeptic I decry, and despise. It=92s not profound ignorance that covers this land. It=92s the proudly unbrave, against which I stand! Afraid they may lose all their ill gotten gain. Afraid that their ethics are tarnish and stain. Afraid, so expression is backward and literal; Afraid of _even_ a classical liberal. Though something=92s afoot in this grandest of lands, The *bunkies* assume the most trusting of stands. The evidence compels us to detailed suspicions, But they won=92t question, still, our sacred traditions. Like the Peruvian Rebels so _conveniently_ dead. They were kind to their captives, had a message instead? Their Indians are treated as bothersome criminals. They are stepped on, dismissed, in the manner of animals. There=92s _something_ aloft, overhead, in our skies. It is there in strange fact before our own eyes. The evidence points from the hands of fine men Like Hynek, and Vallee, or Friedman, or Sitchin. But still *bunkies* smirk, and do still act all wise! While the Earth slowly dwindles, and withers and dies. They have their big dinners, and their cars have fine gas; The rest of the world can just, flat, kiss their ass. They *worked* for their *stuff*, they corrosively reason. They think they have weathered the *meanest* of seasons. They think it can=92t be that their world is infested With beings they _won=92t_ see, and not seen are contested. And if one in a hundred, then he goes college. At one in a hundred he gets to much silage. . . .One in a hundred, he=92s got half the money; . . .One in a hundred, only _he_ tastes the honey. He=92s old Ollie North so resplendent on C-SPAN. Bull shitting our youth with his suffering dead pan. He brandished our Paper like a rightest sonata, But he trashed it with drug deals, and arms deals with Contra! He=92s Doc Imrie, Distracted by Valueless Messages. With a wink, and a smirk, in his petulant presages. He shuffles, and dodges =96 avoids real deals. His retorts, in reality, pathetic appeals. He=92ll shove back his fear, shafted others would find. He=92ll walk his colossus in corridors of mind. He=92ll take his own baseline, make time to pray, But not asking who=92s been _paying_ so he can have his play. And in the looking you find a new conscience, in a study all your own, While others guzzle culture beer, and black shops are getting stoned. You ask yourself, what do _you_ spend -- in real blood stained dollars. You feel the answer a noose on neck =96 a tie, a leash, a collar. Lehmberg@snowhill.com And the good news is . . .that there _is_ good news. Cast off that collar. All we have to do is work a little harder to stay off each others ass (tolerance), cop to bullshit (tell the truth), and admit, but don=92t persecute, a mistake. Consider =96 finding out you were wrong about something is, STILL, a step up! Read some Sturgeon! Celebrate your length and breadth! Be at the center of your universe! If you don=92t like it, change it as much as you are able =96 just don=92t give in to the proclamations, and postulates of the pontificator! Think for yourself! Ask why! Have the courage to say you=92re not convinced! Don=92t be hobbled by what a scientist says is impossible; think of the millions of times they have been wrong, forgetting _entirely_ the millions of times they have been right. Take the alien view. It=92s happening where none of us think to look; it=92s _not_ what we think; and _that=92s_ the kingdom here at hand! Watch James Burke (Connections) , and see how underpants had to precede computers as an example of what I=92m talking about. It=92s not what you think! -- "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for making the half turn. If more had made the turn, then no one would have burned!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 18:16:50 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:14:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:28:15 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - >Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >[Jeroen Jansen] I wrote regarding the Meier affair: >>To quote Dennis Miller, I don't want to get off on a rant here, >>but... >>In light of Meier's proponents here, I suppose there are those >>among us who would make the case that George Adamski's >>remarkably similar contactee accounts (also with photos!) are >>equally valid -- even though, through the *real* scientific >>discoveries made by the widely lambasted (by UFO True Believers) >>Carl Sagan, disproved Adamski's Venusian bunkum once and for >>all. To which Mike Christol responded: >I for one, have not seen any "evidence" that Carl Sagan disproved >anything regarding Adamski's photos, 8 mm color film, etc. >I know that many want to think it has been disproved. >However, one must remember, that those photos and color >films were made in 1952, etc. There was not the >sophisticated computer techniques available back then to >reproduce those type photo's and films. >Not only that, but very similar UFO pictures were taken of the >Adamski type UFO in many different countries for many years >afterwar. (snip) >I have also talked to other investigators, who lived in that area >at the time who went to the place where Adamski allegedly had his >meeting with the Venusean...this person was impressed with the >information and the location where the meeting took place. >I have talked to several people over the years, most of whom >have passed on now, who thought that there was indeed some >truth in many of Adamski's stories. The late Carl Sagan is generally credited as having discovered that Venus was utterly inhospitable to life -- 900 degrees (but it's a dry heat) and a crushing atmospheric pressure. In short, no Venuseans -- case closed on anyone claiming to have met Venuseans or to have visited Venus -- like Adamski and Meier. >We don't have to look for those who cannot accept the >idea that there are many people, whom they consider >inferrior to themselves, who may have had face to face >contacts with Alien Intelligences. It is preposterous to >these people to consider such an idea. If these aliens >were real and were going to contact people, they would >surely contact a higher intelligent human, such as >themselves. Since they can't have these experiences >themselves, they therefore deny the possibility that it >actually happened. In fact they make it their personal >mission to totally discredit the person >in question and make that person as unpopular and uncredulous >as possible. You seem to be ignoring the possibility that these guys, Adamski and Meier, deliberately made this stuff up (lied). Naturally, neither was in possession of information concerning the weather on Venus -- which, if you accept their stories at face value, they should have known before Carl Sagan. Either they made these stories up or the Cosmic Space Brothers lied to them. Which do you think is more likely? >It doesn't matter if it is George Adamski, Billy Meier, >or Travis Walton...these people cannot accept the >reality of those stories. Why do you include Walton in this list? Walton hasn't established himself as an Interstellar Ambassador and Fount of Cosmic Wisdom like Adamski and Meier. Unlike UFO cultists, he's told the same exact story for 20 years with none of the "detail inflation" that plagues most high-profile contactee accounts. That's why I consider Walton to be credible. Adamski & Meier's Venusean/Plieadian Space Brothers have been heavy on the platitudes, but light on hard data. If they wanted to be taken seriously, don't you think they might have passed along some useful tidbit such as verifiable, but previously unknown, scientific or historical data that would unquestionably establish their emissaries' bonafides? Do the Cosmic Space Brothers only want the gullible to believe in their presence and to follow their "teachings"? Hmmm, sounds like religion to me. Nope, all we get are aphorisms and platitudes. Shouldn't that tell you something? If not, I've got a sample of "alien metal" I'd be willing to sell you. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Re: The camera equation [was Kal Korff Admits] From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:14:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: The camera equation [was Kal Korff Admits] > Date: 28 Apr 97 08:11:12 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! > 35 mm film, as used by Meier is 35 mm wide. However, the image area > which is what matters unless the full film is reproduced with edge > markings and sprocket holes, is nominally 24 X 36 mm. Hello Bob, I once noticed this when examining the dimensions of some of my own old 35 mm color-slide film negatives. Being 36 mm in length, why then is the film called 35 mm, the sprocket holes being along the narrow side? > Camera makers, however, do not use a standardized film aperture, so > in practice this varies considerably depending on brand and model of > camera. Add to this that Meier used slide > film, and if the printed reproduction was made from a mounted slide (Wendelle > Stevens told me that Meier's slides were all mounted), slide mounts cut > off the borders of the image, and this varies with the brand and type > of the slide mount. So, without the original in hand, there is no way > to really know image dimensions with any accuracy. But aren't you speaking of accumulated inaccuracies of around 5% here -- 3% for the difference between 35 and 36 mm, and similar uncertainty in the slide mounting edge effects? With the Meier case, the interest is in the difference between an object 23 feet across and one only 1 or 2 feet across, an order of magnitude difference. So the 5% type of error (assuming one knows whether or not a given picture was cropped) pales into insignificance in comparison to the 1000% - 2000% uncertainty of a large object in the distance versus a small model close to the camera. Regarding the camera equation, do you have any feel for the inaccuracy involved there when an object under consideration is not in the best of focus? I presume the equation holds most accurately for an object in good focus. How inaccurate might the equation be, for example, for a camera set on a focus at infinity when the object is 20-30 feet away? Is it more inaccurate than the inaccuracy associated with measuring the width of an out-of-focus object on film due to its blurry edges? In the Meier case, the Olympus 35 ECR camera he used in 1975-76 had its focus mechanism jammed on a setting one stop less than infinity. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Greer From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:10:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:15:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Greer > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:16:05 -0400 > From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> > Subject: Greer > To: "Dr. Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> > The following is a brief on Greer's move into the limelight. > Greer's early funding by Laurence Rockefeller was via Scott Jones' Human > Potential Foundation, who routed $20,000 in early 1994. > After Jones fell out with Laurence, Greer luckily was picked up, as cause > celebre' under New York socialite "Bootsie" Galbraith, wife of Evan > Galbraith, the Reagan era US Ambassador to France. Evan Galbraith is an > importer of "Moet" beverages. That association attracted further funding > by Laurence, which was routed via BSW Foundation in New York. BSW was/is > apparently a private foundation for dabbling modest monies of Daphne Wood, > another socialite and "New Ager". < snip > > Armen Victorian Can you shed any light on the motivation for Laurence Rockefeller's funding of this research? Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 15 From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:29:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:30:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 15 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:15:56 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 15 > UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 2, Number 15 >April 13, 1997 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >WEIRD HUM HAS COLORADO >RESIDENTS MYSTIFIED > Mike V. operates a concession stand and trailer >park in Alamosa County, not far from Great Sand Dunes >National Monument, at the foot of the Sangre de Cristo >mountain range. For years, Mike and his neighbors >have been plagued by strange humming noises, very >similar to the famous "Taos Hum." ....snip.... lately the hum >has become so disturbing that it forced him out of >his underground home. > "We've had numerous reports going back 30 years >of hums, vibrations, booms" near Crestone, Mesita, >and the Great Sand Dunes National Monument," O'Brien >reported. "This is nothing new. What is new is that the >reports now claim that the sound is louder and has >changed to a higher frequency." > On December 29, 1996, Stephanie Vevea, who lives >at the Baca Grande Chalets, reported an "annoying, >almost nauseating low-pitched drone that permeated >her house." Looking out her bedroom window, Ms. >Vevea spotted "a bright white light" from from southwest >to northeast over the mountains. The droning persisted >even after the UFO left. ....snip.... > On August 13, 1996, at 10 p.m., while walking near >the amphitheater at Great Sand Dunes National >Monument, Steve Goroki heard the weird hum and saw >"a wildly vibrating street sign moving six inches from >side to side." (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for these >reports.) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Interesting. However, if they get a big earthquake out there, chalk one up for Paul Devereux. We'll have to wait and see.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:15:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:40:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:31:33 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Consider Charles Halt: >>If the Air Force didn't want him to be touring UFO conventions, >>telling the familiar UFO/alien story, then he wouldn't have been >>doing it. He certainly wouldn't have been promoted in such a manner. >Halt has never made any claims about "aliens" and to my knowledge, >doesn't normally give lectures. James Easton is entirely correct. Charles Halt is the last individual I would expect to see on any UFO lecture 'circuit'. Doubtless were he to engage himself in that part-time occupation, pen what would be a book of considerable interest to many, he would do very well for himself. He has done neither. Nor has he (to my personal knowledge) at any time professed an interest in going down that path. When Halt addressed an audience of roughly 175 persons in Leeds, it was only because Manchester-based solicitor Harry Harris pursuaded him to do so at short notice while in England to be interviewed for the ITV Network 'First Tuesday' television documentary. Halt struck me as an entirely credible individual, but unlike Larry Warren, refrained from entering into any discussion about the nuclear capability of RAF Woodbridge. That was very much a 'taboo' subject. However, when Halt mentioned the arrival of an unmarked Galaxy aircraft and personnel who carried no insignia, this was something new and entirely unexpected. Here was the Deputy Commander of a front-line NATO base forced to do a turnaround when he attempted to discover what was going on by driving to the end of the runway to see who these people were. Halt is without question an extremely intelligent man and one who I'm convinced has as good a recollection of what transpired at Woodbridge than most others who were present. I don't myself believe that Halt suffers from a poor memory. When he gave his lecture in Leeds, he poured out considerable detail referring only briefly to hand-written notes scrawled on pieces of paper held in one palm. Unfortunately, at the insistence of both Harry Harris and Charles Halt, no mechanical means to record the lecture was permitted. We duly honoured this and the quotations derived resulted from written notes gathered by several people. However, someone in the audience did record the lecture and an audiotape briefly surfaced for a while. The name of that person became known to us and we duly referred the matter to Harry Harris who acted immediately. I do not have a copy of that tape. I mention this to pre-empt any possible requests for such a recording. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [editor] UFO Magazine (UK) path.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Question for Updates From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:15:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:18:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Updates >Date: 28 Apr 97 08:11:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Question for Updates >Over the weekend I had a visit from a friend who is an optical >physicist and designer of photographic equipment. He did not >know of my interest in UFOs, but noticed a copy of _Beyond Roswell_ >on my coffee table, and started talking about Roswell. He thinks >it was a secret Soviet craft of some sort based on hearing that >Jesse Marcel, Jr., identified the I-Beam markings as Cyrillic >writing. (I have no idea where he heard that, and he did not recall). >Anyway, he brought up something I had not heard of and I wondered >if anyone here has heard this or knows anything about it. He said >that he had seen "the photos of the Roswell bodies" years ago >in an old TRUE magazine. "Of course those photos have been lost," was >his other comment about them. >Needless to say, this fellow and Phil Klass would get along just >fine, but I am left wondering about the photos he saw. Does >anyone on this list know what he was talking about? >Bob Shell Dear Bob, About a year ago I received correspondence from an elderly European lady who claimed she had seen black & white photographs taken at Roswell in a German magazine back in 1947 - can't recall the magazine title right now because I've misplaced my notes. Anyway, I called the German Embassy in London, got a publishers address in Germany and made a few telephone calls. The magazine went under only a few years ago but the publishing house that produced it was taken over. Calls to a library official got me nowhere. Anyway, I did pass on all the details (including name of the magazine - not 'TRUE' magazine, but definitely German) to Michael Hesemann, who later told me nothing had transpired. However, I have no reason to think that the lady in question was making this up - similarly your source is doubtless convinced he saw something too. I wonder what magazine titles available in 1947 existed at the time and whether it might be worth going over a number of archive copies? Obviously a considerable amount of research has been undertaken in going over old newspaper archives for the period in question, but my question is simply this: Has anyone out there sifted through MAGAZINE archives? If not, a hitherto rich source of undiscovered information may possibly await discovery. It's an interesting possibility, don't you think? Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 29 Apr 97 13:23:15 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:27:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 19:37:11 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal Korff Admits He's NOT A Spy! [Jeroen >I'm still waiting patiently for you to answer my repeated >challenges for you and the "IRT" to reveal your reasons for taking >the alien autopsy video seriously in light of all the demonstrable >bunkum offered-up by Ray Santilli. Is it a secret? Dear Vince, Yes. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:15:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:24:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:01:25 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >No one is denying that he was stationed at Bentwaters, only that he >was not there for the first two nights of the activity. Kevin, I don't doubt for a moment that your assertion is entirely correct, but can you clarify this a little more? I believe it would help if you could reiterate where knowledge of Warren's absence these two nights first originated >No one, and certainly not me, has said anything bad about Peter >Robbins. I believe that he is accurately reporting what he believes >to be the truth. >KRandle Point accepted. My comments were intended as a generalisation only. Yourself and others have raised several important issues which do require further clarification and hopefully when Larry and Peter visit the UK in June these can be addressed. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re. New Mars Face? From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 29 Apr 97 22:59:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:40:58 -0400 Subject: Re. New Mars Face? >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:03:33 -0500 (CDT) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Re. New Mars Face? >My opinion, after studying the Viking imagery, is that the >now-infamous Martian "structures" were built using already >existing landforms and "modifying" them. In this sense, ETI >critics who proclaim that the Cydonia face is "merely a mesa" >are partially correct. A very old culture right here on Earth did the same about six to eight thousand years (or older) ago: The Minoans in Crete. Crete is said to be a very powerful and important place here on this planet. Once you have been there, not on the northern coast with a suit case in hand but with a rucksack on your back in the inner parts of the isle and at the southern coast, you will ever come back. The energy there is tremendous. And don't forget, an artifact was found there which nearly is unique in human history: the Discos of Phaistos. I know a man who is living there, who has become part of this island: Fritz Kuroso, a German. He is highly estimated by the locals. He was the only one so far who challenged the common interpreters with their odd "solutions" of this enigmatic artifact. He is an expert in old Minoan "language" and "scripts" and has resolved the riddle of the Discos: it cleraly contains links to space, planets and those who come from outward... The planet Earth has number seven on this disk - as counted from outward towards the sun. mit freundlichen Gruessen Joachim Koch FIDO: 2:2410/704.20 IN: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 AUFORA: 1865 Anomalous Meteorite From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 18:04:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:36:26 -0400 Subject: AUFORA: 1865 Anomalous Meteorite AUFORA News Update Tuesday, April 29th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ _________________________ 1865 ANOMALOUS METEORITE from St. Louis Democrat, October 19, 1865 A Messenger from the Celestial Regions- A Stone Falls to the Ground with Characters Engraved Upon It Mr. James Lumley, an old Rocky Mountain trapper, who has been stopping at the Everett House for several days, makes a most remarkable statement to us, and one, which if authenticated, will produce the greatest excitement in the scientific world. Mr. Lumley states that about the middle of last September, he was engaged in trapping in the mountains, about seventy-five or one hundred miles above the great falls of the Upper Missouri, and in the neighborhood of what is known as Cadotte Pass. Just after sunset one evening he beheld a bright, luminous body in the heavens, which was moving with a great rapidity in an easterly direction. It was plainly visible for at least five seconds, when it suddenly separated into particles, resembling, as Mr. Lumley described it, the bursting of a skyrocket in the air. A few minutes later he heard a heavy explosion, which jarred the earth very perceptibly, and this was shortly after followed by a rumbling sound, like a tornado sweeping through the forest. A strong wind sprang up about the same time, but as suddenly subsided. The air was also filled with a peculiar odor of a sulfurous character. These incidents would have made but slight impression on the mind of Mr. Lumley, but for the fact that on the ensuing day he discovered, at a distance of about two miles from his camping place, that, as far as he could see in either direction, a path had been cut through the forest, several rods wide - giant trees uprooted or broken off near the ground - the tops of hills shaved off, and the earth plowed up in many places. Great and wide-spread havoc was every-where visible. Following up this track of desolation, he soon ascertained the cause of it in the shape of an immense stone that had been driven into the side of a mountain. But now comes the most remarkable part of the story. An examination of this stone, or so much of it as was visible, showed that it had been divided into compartments, and that, in various places, it was carved with curious hieroglyphics. More than this, Mr. Lumley also discovered fragments of a substance resembling glass, and here and there dark stains, as though caused by a liquid. He is confident that the hieroglyphics were the work of human hands, and that the stone itself, although but a fragment of an immense body, must have been used for some purpose by animated beings. Strange as this story appears, Mr. Lumley relates it with so much sincerity that we are forced to accept it as true. It was evident that the stone which he discovered was a fragment of the meteor which was visible in this section in September last. It will be remembered that it was seen in Leavenworth, in Galena, and in this city by Colonel Bonneville. At Leavenworth, it was seen to separate in particles or explode. __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Larry Warren Responds From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:20:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:43:18 -0400 Subject: Larry Warren Responds Larry Warren Responds . . . The book that I have co-authored with Peter Robbins, LEFT AT EAST GATE (Marlowe and Company, New York, New York), speaks loud and clear for itself! In it, many sides of the argument concerning the 1980 Bentwaters/Woodbridge UFO incidents, their cover-up and investigation are fully examined and explored. We hope you all enjoy it! Sincerely, Larry Warren 81st SPS and witness to the third night of UFO activity in Rendlesham Forest * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Welcoming Linda From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:19:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:49:59 -0400 Subject: Welcoming Linda I'd like to welcome Linda Cortile to the list. I understand some people have greeted her privately, but I thought a public welcome was in order as well. Linda, after all, has been a subject of discussion among us, along with many details of her case. And here she is, conducting herself -- for instance, in her question about the three objects she saw -- with the level-headed modesty that I've always seen her show in person. But here's a question for everyone. We really have discussed Linda and her case a lot. Now that she's here, wouldn't it be appropriate -- and courteous, as well -- for everyone with questions about the case to pose those questions directly to her? She doesn't bite, and if she's asked politely, I'm sure she'll answer in much the same spirit. It's a great opportunity -- and maybe we'll even learn a few things. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Dutch (local-)Newspaper Clipping From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:32:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:55:44 -0400 Subject: Dutch (local-)Newspaper Clipping Hi List, I've translated this article from a local dutch newspaper. I've also written a letter to her for more information of the UFO reports she has. I'll post updates whenever they become available. Karel. ============================================================================= Woensels Nieuwsblad Wednesday 16 April 1997 "THEY EXIST, I HAVE SEEN THEM MYSELF" EINDHOVEN - UFO's often appeal to someone's imagination. The opinions are divided: do they exists or not ? But everybody can suddenly witness an Unidentified Flying Object, say the figures from the UFO-report center in Eindhoven. The reporting point takes care of a listening ear and starts an investigation into the seen phenomena. "Because I know UFO's exists". by Arjan Egelmees Almere, at the end of 1994. A large yellow globe appears at the horizon of the landscape. Not much later gets the UFO-Reporting Point of Monique Hendriks in Eindhoven fifty reports of people who have seen the yellow globe. She indexed the reports and started an investigation. Conclusion: the globe was an Unidentified Flying Object, or, a UFO. The woman from Eindhoven started the UFO-Reporting Point in November 1993. She gets about 90 incoming reports on a yearly basis. Al these reports are researched to the bottom down. Hendriks has read about 70 books about UFO's in the past years and has done research about different phenomena connected to UFO's. Because of that, she deserves to be called a UFO expert. EYE TO EYE "I don't know: not everybody is convinced of the existence of UFO's. But I am. I know that they exist because I have seen them myself", tells Monique Hendriks. The woman from Eindhoven was standing a total of 6 times eye to eye with an Unidentified Flying Object. The first time was in 1984. Hendriks was 12 years old at that time. "I was driving with my mother on the road. At a certain moment there appeared a glowing yellow globe at the sky. It came closer and closed, changed color and shape, it had square windows on it, and it had a diameter of 15 meters." Since then she had become interested in UFO's. "If I walk outside then I usually look up. You could call that a strange feature of me. I also always carry a photo camera with me, so I can, if it is necessary, always capture an Unidentified Flying Object on film. I am very interested, but not obsessed" SOBER PERSON All over the world have hundreds of thousands of people witnessed UFO's. Also in the Netherlands UFO's have been seen. "Also by sceptics, that didn't believe in UFO's before. Then they call me and say: 'I am a sober person, but what I've seen today....' It can really happen to anyone. I get reports from people from every society class there is. From young to old en from high educated to low educated people". Everybody that reports to Monique Hendriks gets a question lists by mail. On that the can report what the object looked like, where and for how long they saw it, if there where any other witnesses and if there where life forms in the object. WETHER BALLOONS With the report form the UFOlogist tries to identify the flying object. If necessary she calls with the skywatch or the air traffic control of Eindhoven Airport to ask for a possible explanation. "About 80 % of the UFO-reports are explainable. Usually it's about laser lights of a dancing, wether balloons, stars or airplanes. But the remaining 20% remains unidentified. Besides the research of different UFO-reports, Hendriks also acts as a listening ear for the people that call her. "I want to take the phenomena out of the taboo atmosphere. People that saw a flying saucer usually cannot talk about it with anyone, and have become afraid. They usually also suffer from an unexplainable headache, nerve-shaking and memory loss" EXTRA TERRESTRIALS The most strange stories are going around about UFO's. What are they doing, where do they coming from and who sits in it ? It remains guessing. But according to UFO-expert Hendriks we are almost certainly dealing with extra-terrestrial visitors here. "Maybe we are some sort of experiment of extra terrestrials. And they come to look how we are doing now and then. That could be an explanation for 'the missing link'. It has always be the theory that we evolved from the apes. But how does it come that we evolved, but they didn't". That is the "missing link" between the evolution of the apes and humans. Could it be that we apart from the apes also [afstammen] from extra-terrestrials ? Of course; a lot of questions that cannot be answered. "That's why I have an open mind to every theory". The UFO-Reporting center of Monique Hendriks can be contacted by mail: Postbus 10024, 5000 JA Tilburg. -------------------------====### KUFOR ###====--------------------- Karel's UFO Research Karel Bagchus E-mail: karel@worldonline.nl WWW: http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ ICQ: 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 'Star Voyager' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 02:34:20 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:08:50 -0400 Subject: 'Star Voyager' Dear colleagues, For all of you out there interested in all things sci-fi you might like to know that April 23 saw the release of a new magazine in the UK entitled 'STAR VOYAGER'. This first issue covers everything from UO's to movie reviews to interviews with sci-fi writers and even a brief interview with yours truly. The magazine has yet to find its feet and develope its own style, but if you are interested in Star Voyager you can contact them at: Star Voyager, 114-116 Curtain Road, London, EC2A 3AH. Tele: 0171 880 0149. Fax: 0171 880 0010. E-mail: command@starvoyager.co.uk Yours , Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The camera equation [was Kal Korff Admits] From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 30 Apr 97 09:38:11 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:57:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The camera equation [was Kal Korff Admits] >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:52:23 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: The camera equation Jim, >I once noticed this when examining the dimensions of some of my own old >35 mm color-slide film negatives. Being 36 mm in length, why then is the >film called 35 mm, the sprocket holes being along the narrow side? The film is called 35 mm because the film is physically 35 mm in width. Even though used in still cameras, 35 mm was originally a motion picture film. Motion picture cameras ran the film through vertically and generally used an image area of 18 X 24 mm. When Osker Barnack invented the first practical 35 mm still camera (the Leica), he took two of these motion picture frames and combined them into one 24 X 36 mm still frame. However, other camera makers have used different frame sizes, ranging from the "half frame" size of 18 X 24, through 24 X 24, 24 X 30 (original Nikon), 24 X 34, and many other variations. These frame sizes do not affect the film size in any way. The maximum width is limited to about 24 mm by the sprocket holes, but the length is limited only by how much film you load, and there are special cameras which produce multiple 360 degree scans on the film, so the image is several feet long. >But aren't you speaking of accumulated inaccuracies of around 5% here -- 3% >for the difference between 35 and 36 mm, and similar uncertainty in the >slide mounting edge effects? With the Meier case, the interest is in the >difference between an object 23 feet across and one only 1 or 2 feet >across, an order of magnitude difference. So the 5% type of error >(assuming one knows whether or not a given picture was cropped) pales >into insignificance in comparison to the 1000% - 2000% uncertainty of a >large object in the distance versus a small model close to the camera. I honestly do not know what percentage of error we are dealing with here. I can contact Olympus and ask what the film gate dimensions are on the 35 ECR. >Regarding the camera equation, do you have any feel for the inaccuracy >involved there when an object under consideration is not in the best of >focus? I presume the equation holds most accurately for an object in good >focus. How inaccurate might the equation be, for example, for a camera >set on a focus at infinity when the object is 20-30 feet away? Is it more >inaccurate than the inaccuracy associated with measuring the width of an >out-of-focus object on film due to its blurry edges? In the Meier case, >the Olympus 35 ECR camera he used in 1975-76 had its focus mechanism >jammed on a setting one stop less than infinity. This would depend on the focal length and design of the lens, and just what distance Olympus had use for "setting one stop less than infinity". If you really consider this worth carrying further, I'll see if I can get the info from Olympus. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 'Dialogue With The Universe' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 02:25:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:06:37 -0400 Subject: 'Dialogue With The Universe' Dear colleagues, You might be interested in the conference organised my Michael Hesemann's MAGAZINE 2000 in Germany entitled 'DIALOGUE WITH THE UNIVERSE'. This conference will take place in Dusseldorf between October 30 and November 2, l997. There is an impressive line up of speakers from 14 different countries taking part in the conference. Having been a speaker at this same event before I can highly recommend it. Anyone wishing further details should contact Michael Hesemann at: Michael Hesemann, Worringer Strasse 1, D-40211 Dusseldorf, Germany. e-mail: 100660.3672@CompurSeve.COM. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Mars Global Surveyor to Aerobrake in Modified From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:55:53 -0400 Subject: Mars Global Surveyor to Aerobrake in Modified Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC April 30, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-85 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR TO AEROBRAKE IN MODIFIED CONFIGURATION NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft can safely and successfully aerobrake into its final orbit around Mars this fall with its one partially deployed solar panel in a modified configuration, mission managers have decided. No special maneuvers will be conducted to attempt to force the array to latch, and the focus of the Surveyor engineering team now will turn to minor modifications to the critical aerobraking phase that will circularize the spacecraft's orbit for the beginning of two years of science operations. "After careful analysis of the situation, we've determined that the solar panel on Mars Global Surveyor that is not fully deployed presents very little risk to the mission," said Glenn E. Cunningham, Mars Global Surveyor project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. The decision by NASA's flight team at JPL and its partners at Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, CO, was reached after several months of extensive analysis of spacecraft data, ground-based computer simulations and a series of very slight spacecraft maneuvers that were carried out in January and February to characterize the situation. "Thanks to an early launch that gave us an advantageous trajectory, we will not have to aerobrake into the Martian atmosphere as fast as we had originally planned to reach the mapping orbit, and that will reduce the amount of heating that the solar panels undergo during this gradual descent," Cunningham explained. "We will rotate the solar-cell side of the panel that is not fully deployed by 180 degrees, so that it faces into the direction of the air flow that exerts drag force on the spacecraft as it dips repeatedly into the atmosphere," he said. "This way, the unlatched panel will not be in danger of folding up onto the spacecraft's main structure, nor will the panel be at any greater risk of heating up too much." The solar panel in question is one of two 11-foot wings that were unfolded shortly after Surveyor's Nov. 7, 1996, launch from Cape Canaveral Air Station, FL. Data suggest that a piece of metal called the "damper arm," which is part of the solar array deployment mechanism located at the "elbow" joint where the entire panel is attached to the spacecraft body, probably was sheared off during deployment in the first day of flight. The lever that turns the shaft became wedged in a two-inch space between the shoulder joint and the edge of the solar panel, leaving the panel tilted at 20.5 degrees from its fully deployed and latched position. Although the situation was never considered a serious threat to accomplishing the science objectives of the mission, the tilted array caused the JPL/Lockheed Martin flight team to re-evaluate the aerobraking phase, in which the spacecraft must rely almost solely on its solar panels for the drag needed to lower it into a nearly circular mapping orbit over the poles of the planet. This phase of the mission will begin a week after Mars Global Surveyor is captured in orbit around Mars on Sept. 11, and will last approximately four months. Aerobraking was first tested in the final days of the Magellan mission to Venus in October 1994. The technique is an innovative method of braking which allows a spacecraft to carry less fuel to a planet and take advantage of the planet's atmospheric drag to descend into a low-altitude orbit. Mars Global Surveyor will use an aerobraking phase much like that used to circularize Magellan's orbit. The solar wings -- which feature a Kapton flap at the tip of each wing for added drag -- supply most of the surface area that will slow the spacecraft by a total of more than 2,684 miles per hour during the four-month phase. Surveyor's orbit around Mars will shrink during this phase from an initial, highly elliptical orbit of 45 hours to a nearly circular orbit taking less than two hours to complete. Engineers determined that the deployment springs currently holding the tilted solar panel in its nearly deployed position will not be strong enough to withstand the forces of aerobraking. To solve that problem, they designed a new configuration in which the tilted solar panel, along with the deployment springs, will be rotated 180 degrees, using a motor- driven inner gimbal actuator, and held in position with force applied by an outer gimbal actuator. Sequencing software will be modified to turn the gimbal actuators on before each closest approach to the planet and off at the conclusion of each drag pass. As a consequence of the new aerobraking configuration, the more sensitive cell-side of the unlatched wing will be exposed directly to the wind flow of atmospheric entry, requiring that aerobraking be done in a more gradual, gentle manner. Ground tests have demonstrated that the unlatched solar panel will have more than adequate thermal margin to withstand additional heating as the spacecraft circularizes its orbit for the beginning of science mapping in March 1998. Meanwhile, Mars Global Surveyor continues to perform very well on its arcing flight path toward the red planet and its arrival in orbit. A third, very minor trajectory correction maneuver, planned for April 21, was deemed unnecessary and canceled. In addition, science instrument calibrations continue to go well, and plans are being prepared to take an approach image of Mars a few days before the July 4 landing of Mars Pathfinder, which passed Mars Global Surveyor enroute to Mars on March 14, 1997. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a sustained program of robotic exploration of Mars, managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:51:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? In a message dated 97-04-30 12:36:23 EDT, you write: >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:15:25 -0400 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >>Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:01:25 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Book: 'Left at East Gate'?? >>No one is denying that he was stationed at Bentwaters, only that he >>was not there for the first two nights of the activity. >Kevin, I don't doubt for a moment that your assertion is entirely >correct, but can you clarify this a little more? I believe it would >help if you could reiterate where knowledge of Warren's absence these >two nights first originated Larry Warren is the source of this. He, himself, has said that he was not there for the first two nights and that he did not participate in them. He was only there on the third night, which, curiously, he is the only one to report. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Rendlesham From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:55:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:06:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Rendlesham > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:16:31 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: Rendlesham > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> James, Thanks for the additional info you've given. Just a request to US list members, with all the "chatter" on the list re Rendlesham I've been looking through the various TV programs I have on tape covering it. I have a portion of the US show "Unexplained Mysteries" transmitted here on SKY TV back in 1993/94, it reconstructed the incident and had interviews with many of the known witnesses.(though the depiction of the UK police left a lot to be desired<g> and I wish Robert Stack would get a new trench coat). Going from the appearance of some of the people interviewed this might have been made quite some time before it's UK airing. ?? Does anyone over there know when this show was made and if the interviews were done at the time of the production, or earlier??. I'd also like to point out for non UK list members, that this event took place over the UK's "Christmas Break". The whole country is usually "CLOSED" from the evening of Dec 24th until Jan 2nd, and in between the 2 dates the general population is normally at home full of turkey, sprouts and christmas pudding, well lubricated with more than ample amounts of beer and spirits. Maybe an understatement, but you get the idea<g>. If someone had wanted to undertake a "covert operation" they couldn't have planned a better time to keep it out of the public view. As for Halt's search through the forest, the two phrases "Wild goose chase" and "Carrot on stick leading Donkey" come to mind. No disrespect to Halt, but he does seem to have been lead a merry chase throughout those hours in the forest, to no ultimate end, and for no apparent purpose other than to keep him there and maybe away from somewhere else.? Again for list members not familiar with the geography involved with Woodbridge and Bentwaters I'm shortly putting a couple of maps on the Roswell website below, the're not the best in the world but you get the general idea, I hope to get a more detailed view up soon. Best Regards Neil. -- Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ **********************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Questions for Linda Cortile From: Ted MacLeod <tmacleod@gemsoft.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:42:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:53:45 -0400 Subject: Questions for Linda Cortile Dear Linda Cortile, In response to Greg Sandow's recent invitation, I have a few brief questions about the psychological impact of the aliens written with factual detail in Budd Hopkin's latest book "Witnessed". What I would like to know concerns the after-effects of your experiences rather than what the aliens did at the moment of your 'contacts'. 1/ How has your "view of the world" changed since the emergence of these experiences to your emotional and intellectual conscienceness? 2/ In your opinion, what psychological effect would these aliens have on the population of the world supposing their existence became a undeniable reality? 3/ What plans do you have for further investigation of your experiences? I know these simple questions require some not so simple answers, but I would appreciate any response you have to give. Thank you for your time, Ted MacLeod, Toronto, Ontario CANADA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- "I pity the FOO!!! - Mr. T Ted MacLeod Computer Animator 12 Shepard St., Ste.500 Toronto, Ontario CANADA M5H 3A1 Email: tmacleod@gemsoft.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Welcoming Linda From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:29:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:13:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Welcoming Linda >From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Welcoming Linda >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:19:44 -0400 Hi Errol, Hi Greg, hi All, Greg Sandow writes, >I'd like to welcome Linda Cortile to the list. I was waiting patiently for this one! I talk to Linda 2 or 3 times a week and she was asking me if anyone on the list knew who she was? I told her I guess not. It just figures it would be you who would think to 'break the ice!' <G> >It's a great opportunity -. Yes it is amigo. >- and maybe we'll even learn a few things Only if there's a dialog! (Deer caught in sudden glare of headlights?) I want to publicly second Gregs warm welcome for my friend Linda C. (And it's about time too!) John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Financing For Hearings In Congress,(idea) From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:10:07 -0400 Subject: Financing For Hearings In Congress,(idea) A POTENTIAL INTRODUCTORY LETTER Toward gaining corporate financing for hearings in Congress By Ed Komarek * Dear Chairman--- * I am sure you have noticed more and more activity in the press regarding the UFO phenomena. Of course much of that being aired in the mass media is fiction and crass speculation. You may have been wondering if there is in fact some fire beneath all this smoke. You might ask yourself, so what does this have to do with me and my company? I would like to answer that question. Have you considered the possibility that some alien spacecraft have been recovered and are being reverse engineered by a few large corporations in cooperation with the National Security establishment? If such is true, your competiours may have a monolopy on alien technoligy and its distribution for defense and into the public domain. If a few large corporations have such a monopoly you may already have been severely impacted. I suggest you make some discreet inquiries. If indeed you confirm what I am saying as true you may want to be further briefed. At present a effort is underway in Congress behind the scenes, to evenutaly hold hearings on the UFO/ET subject. Presently three major UFO groups are involved in building grassroots support and are lobbying Congress. These groups have idenified over 100+ individuals that hold or have held high security clearances and who claim to have worked on alien projects. Most of these individuals would be willing to testify before Congress. Like all political endevors this will cost quite a lot of money and the parties involved are going to need corporate financing to pull this off. I am one of the co-founders of Operation Right To Know(ORTK), a UFO political activist organization dedicated to ending UFO/ET secrecy. We support the activities underway to gain hearings in Congress on the UFO subject. I hope you will contact me for further briefings. We can arrange for briefing materials and presentations if you so desire. This either through ORTK or the parties directly involved in lobbying Congress. Sincerely, Ed Komarek (ORTK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The camera equation From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:09:07 -0400 Subject: Re: The camera equation > Date: 30 Apr 97 09:38:11 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Re: The camera equation [was Kal Korff Admits] > The film is called 35 mm because the film is physically 35 mm in width. > Even though used in still cameras, 35 mm was originally a motion picture > film. Motion picture cameras ran the film through vertically and > generally used an image area of 18 X 24 mm. When Osker Barnack invented > the first practical 35 mm still camera (the Leica), he took two of these > motion picture frames and combined them into one 24 X 36 mm still frame. > ... Thanks for the info, Bob. > I honestly do not know what percentage of error we are dealing with here. > I can contact Olympus and ask what the film gate dimensions are on the > 35 ECR. Well, as you know, various claims are that the beamships were models a foot or two in diameter, whereas Meier's many shots that show the haze effect well, and those where it is of comparable diameter to that of a mature "abies alba" tree that its mostly obscured behind, indicate it was about 23 feet in diameter, as Meier was told. The ratio of 23 to 2 gives the order of magnitude of the "discrepancy" involved, which then amounts to a 1000% or more discrepancy. So I don't see how anything can come from deducing whether Meier's original film image extended to 36 mm or 35.5 mm. Yet I'd be glad to receive whatever info you can find out from Olympus, if you have the time to spare. Wendelle Stevens describes the camera as being an older model Olympus CR (on another page he called it an ECR), serial No. 200 519, with a maximum shutter speed of 1/100 sec. Focal length was 42 mm with an f2.8 lens. In looking again into his book, I see that he describes the focus mechanism as having been jammed "just a micro-adjustment short of the infinity position." Re my camera-equation question, I was just interested in knowing if there are any general guidelines, or order-of-magnitude statements that could be said about how relevant the equation's use is if the object is not in perfect focus. I realize that to say anything quantitatively accurate you need to know all conditions in detail. > This would depend on the focal length and design of the lens, and just what > distance Olympus had use for "setting one stop less than infinity". Yet, I'd find it informative to learn just how inaccurate the camera equation may be assuming an infinity setting on the lens and, say, a 50 m distance to the object on a "cloudy-day" shutter-speed setting. Stevens mentions the film involved as having been 18 DIN (whatever that might mean), with brand names: Kodak, Agfa and Peruz all having been used. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI From: "S. Baldwin" <sblee@stc.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:20:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:23:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Congratulations Steven Greer & CSETI >>About Greer. >Not be too much of a "doubting Thomas", but do you have any proof that >something is being "achieved". Your charactorization regarding the fact >that nothing has been done in 30 years is not entirely accurate, but I will >admit that nothing substantial has occurred. On the other hand I don't >seem to recall that the "500 books, 5,000 UFO congresses, 15,000 UFO >researchers and 1,500,000 e-mails per day" were truly designed to spark >action by the Government. There is an impression here that this mass of >information is cohesive and provides proof of its premise, when in fact it >is designed primarily to promote a particular viewpoint among those already >involved in the genre. Everyone has their "story" to tell, and factors that >relate tend to be very general. >I would like to again state that I have no problem with Dr. Greer or his >goals in this. Through an increase in the public's awareness of this >issue, we can force Congress to at least address the issue. Toward that >end, Greer's efforts can help to serve a useful purpose. But his mix of >press releases and secrecy seems somewhat strange, and as I follow the >discussion of this matter there seems to be the need for a "reality check" >in regard to the way many seem to think that politics works in Washington. Greer seems to have made some impression on a few people. To my astonishment he was on the local news (very briefly) here in Atlanta speaking about his adventure in Washington. He came across as reasonably level headed and the newscaster although unfortunately tying everything in the "x-files" bag, was less than his usual normal smirking self when UFO's are mentioned. He said "people were coming out of the woodwork" in Congress to talk to him. Its a start I suppose..... S.[usan] Baldwin