UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:18:47 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair Notes from telephone interview with primary witness to the B & B Affair. 5/31/97 3:30 to 4:15 pm est INTRODUCTION TO B & B AFFAIR This post is a follow up to a series of posts on the B & B Affair that have been made. The phone number and name of one of the primary witnesses to this event was given to me by Billy, email address bbryder@bga.com . I posted Billy's original allegations in ORTK Bulletin #26 and a follow up post today. Remember these allegations are his not mine!!!!!!!! I posted Billy's initial post in the ORTK Bulletin hoping simply that someone would give further information perhaps from MUFON. That maybe someone else would look into this matter. Instead of simply getting a simple statement from MUFON HQ, I end up getting slammed by MUFON Journal editor Dennis Stacy in a series of insulting posts on the internet. I began to wonder if there might be something to this. Please bear in mind that I only posted the post to the list serves for Billy and put his post in my Bulletin hoping to hear the other side of the story. I did not write these posts! Instead of emailing Billy and talking to him Stacy chose to unload on me, falsely accusing me of simply making up the story when Billys email address was right there on the post for him to contact. So in my own defense I had to get further involved. I posted Billy's second message today for him and I called the confidential person and number that he had me delete from this second post. The following are the results of the interview I had with this primary source. Its obvious that the event happened but not as described by Billy. ------------------------------------------------------ NOTES FROM TELEPHONE INTERVIEW The lady in question is a abductee and holds meetings for abductees. These meetings are for professional people, writers, teachers, and even government officials. The people because of their professional status want these meetings to be kept confidential. They even go so far as to use code names so they will not be identified in a roster. Some of these people are well know and famous. This lady began planning for this abductee seminar in the spring of 1992 with the event taking place in November of 1992. The event went well. During the planning stage before when it was still up in the air as to if this was to be a secret seminar, this lady wrote a letter to Walt Andrus. She was thinking about putting out a program. Walt sent a handwritten notation telling her to contact the MUFON section director for the Waco Texas area. She then wrote a letter to the MUFON section director who's name she has forgotten but may have his card if it has not been pitched. (The name will be easy enough to confirm from MUFON.) She never heard back from this man and thought he must not be interested because he did not respond to the letter. Inadvertently she had given out the wrong date and the seminar happened a week earlier than indicated in the letter to the MUFON section director. It happened that the people to attend the event wanted to keep the event secret and so she made no further public inquiries to inform others outside the group. The Seminar came and went. The next week this lady was up in her office and looked down from her office window to see two men taking pictures in her yard without permission. One was middle aged and one was young. It turned out that the older was the MUFON section director and a the younger a trainee. Later he was to leave his card and said he had a military background and was a photographer. The next thing that happens is that these two uninvited strangers are in the living room down stairs, shouting and mad as hell and taking pictures. Another woman is down there and the lady comes down from upstairs. He is shaking the letter she had written to him in the spring saying she deceived him. Shouting at her he demands a applology for the deception. He was in a real rage. She started to get tickled because this was so absurd and wrote that she was sorry on the bottom of the letter to get him to leave. It seemed obvious to her that this man had intended to make a surprise attack on the seminar and had been throw off by the incorrect time on the letter from months ago to which he had never followed up on or responded to. His attack had been foiled by the improper date on the months old letter. The MUFON section director and his assistant had left their truck far down the road and said that the truck stopped on them. This lady lives in a remote rural area and it would be very difficult to find her residence without having detailed instructions. She asked them if they needed help cranking their truck before they left and they then said no they would try it again. It was obvious to her that the man was lying. The young man was looking very apologetic and she was sorry for him. The lady has promised to write me a detailed report on this incident and she has other witness to this hostile event by this MUFON represenative. I suggest that MUFON's Dennis Stacy call the MUFON section director in question for this time period. Remember Dennis the lady has other witnesses to this event. I think MUFON owes these people a apology. Better late than never. Next time you better think twice before claiming I invent stories. I call them just like I see them and I am not intimidated by a lot of bluff and bluster!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 09:34:27 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 00:09:37 -0400 Subject: Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' >Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:01:19 +0930 >From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: A layman's thoughts on "propulsion". In a very recent posting ASIUS - The Antipodean put forward some thoughts on UFO propolusion systems and suggested that UFO's may well have a system that allows them to alter the atmospheric density around them. That may well be so but many of them do not need to do that for they are aerodynamically sound in shape. While it is a fact that any shape (even my body shape) will generate lift as long as there is enough thrust, some shapes are far more efficient than others. Take for example the craft shown in the Roswell Gun Camera photo that appeared on the Internet a few weeks ago. The shape of this craft is correct to generate lift and so keep the craft in the air without having to alter the air density by any special means and it wouldn't need incredible amounts of thrust to do it. Other shapes - such as the classic "flying saucer" - are also aerodynamically sound but it is the square shapes that are described as being "as big as a football field" and that cruise at very slow speeds that have me wondering. As a PS to the Roswell picture, there was a sighting on the eastern seaboard of Australia on 2nd March this year that bore interesting similarities to the craft allegedly photographed at Roswell. Stuart Livesey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 1890 Report & 1947 Report, Austin, Texas From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:31:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 00:12:44 -0400 Subject: 1890 Report & 1947 Report, Austin, Texas The Austin, Texas STATESMAN 8 July 1947, page 1 NOW HE SEES IT NOW HE DOESN'T 'Saucer' Recalls Event 57 Years Ago When Austinite Saw First 'Aircraft' John Caldwell of Reed's Music Store saw a flying disc Monday going north from the University of Texas, but he doesn't believe it. It happen that 57 years ago, before airplanes were invented, he saw a mysterious aircraft going north from behind Mount Bonnell. Although he has a clipping yellow with age from the Austin Statesman to prove his point of seeing the plane, he said. Tuesday he thought both instnaces were illusions. "Just think about anything long encough, he said, "and you can see it." At the time Caldwell saw the mysterious plane the United States was in about as much turmoil over their strange appearances as it is now over ther appearances of flying discs. "I think I was just seeing thngs yesterday," Caldwell stated, but if people start thinking hard enough on a thing, its bound to be invented. Someone will get the idea about to make whatever is in the public eye." The disc he saw Monday was white, "or near the color of the moon but not near as big." It was traveling at a rapid speed, but Caldwell could not estimate how fast it was. "I was lying on my bed at home," he related, "but I wasn't drunk, because I don't drink, and I wasn't asleep. I had just been thinking about things too long like I did about the airplane when I was a boy." The clipping from The Austin Statesman that Caldwell has pasted to the back of a small leatherbound ledger reads in part: "The airship made its appearance again early yesterday morning. At least three yound men who were camping up on Bull Creek at Huddle's Point, say they saw it....About 3 o'clock yesterday morning it began to rain and the young men were compelled to get up and fasten their tent. It was at this time they saw the mysterious aircraft....At intervals of every few seconds it would throw its searchlights, and the boys saw the light looked as big as four orindary lights. It made its appearance from behind Mount Bonnell and traveled north. The boys broke camp last afternoon. They say because it was raining so hard, but the mysterious light made the rain seem wetter." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The 19th century report sounds very much like a 1896-7 airship story. A quick check of Neeley's THE AIRSHIP CHRONICLE failed to turn up a similar report. Neeley did have reports from the Austin STATESMAN. Perhaps it is indeed a 1890 report. Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:46:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 00:15:06 -0400 Subject: Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 5/31/97 9:07 AM: > Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:01:19 +0930 > From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: A layman's thoughts on "propulsion". > If a 'craft' was able to create and manipulate an area of decreased > atmospheric density in the proposed direction of travel (by means > unknown), would this not result in movement of the 'craft' into the area > of decreased resistance? > What I am trying to get at is that if such a process was successfully > able to be employed, would this not mean that the craft would be capable > of "silent running" ie. no sonic boom due to the 'craft' being enveloped > in a region of 'lower than ambient' atmospheric pressure, thus > eliminating or significantly reducing atmospheric compression because > the craft instead of being 'propelled' as such, would be 'sucked' > towards the proposed direction of travel. ie. The area of lower density. The problem is that the "removed" air has to be sent somewhere. When that happens, the boundary turbulence of the outflow will make sound. For that matter, the air being removed will also make a sound as it enters the intake. But most importantly, the resistance of the object to movement (inertia) will be much greater than the resistance of the neighboring air to flowing into the evacuated area, thus, the object will not move, and the neighboring air will simply pour into the evacuated area, filling it. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: WW Media Alert 970528 From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 22:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:07:21 -0400 Subject: Re: WW Media Alert 970528 In a message dated 97-05-30 02:08:52 EDT, you write: > Subj: UFO UpDate: WW Media Alert 970528 > Date: 97-05-30 02:08:52 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:47:58 -0700 > From: BufoCalvin@aol.com > To: BufoCalvin@aol.com > Subject: BWW Media Alert 970528 > May 28, 1997 <snip> > SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: BRUSH WITH DEATH: the art of Dr. > Jack Kevorkian(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for > stations and playtimes in your area) This is one program that everybody should just be dying to see. :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:17:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book > Subj: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book > Date: 97-05-31 10:53:26 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:50:13 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: BEYOND ROSWELL > BEYOND ROSWELL co-authored by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle is now > available for review. Copies are now hot off the press and are available > from our publishers in the USA and the UK. > Anyone interested in review copies can contact our publishers at: > USA > Marlowe & Company, 632 Broadway, 7th Floor, New York, NY 10012. > Tele: 212 460 5742. Fax: 212 460 5796. I just found a copy on the shelf of our local Barnes & Noble. Cheers,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Sedona Arizona Sighting, Mon, 26 May 1997 From: "Skywatch International" <mail@phoenix.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 14:20:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:32:48 -0400 Subject: Sedona Arizona Sighting, Mon, 26 May 1997 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:48:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: Sedona Arizona Sighting Report - just happened (fwd) From: Joan Johnson-Porter <metamap@mail.sedona.net> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List At about 8:10pm tonight, we (me, my husband and two friends) saw -- and videoed -- a pulsing round light for about 8 minutes northwest of Sedona. We are in the Village of Oak Creek south of Sedona. The object was videoed over the roof top of the house across the street. Its diameter was approximatly 1/2 the width of the stack on top of the neighbor's chimney -- and pulsed to about the same width. The object pulsed and all other objects in the video remained clear and steady. It did not fly in an exact straight line from our vantage point. Through binoculars it looked like a flat oval. It was blue on top, yellow in the middle and red on the bottom. We are currently checking with the local airports for flight reports. We just got another sighting report of the object from two people in Sedona. They report that it was white, hovering, spinning and moving up and down while it hovered. It was over Coffee Pot Mountain and headed over the Mingus. We are currently getting another report by phone as I type this -- it is spinning and hovering -- moving side to side and up and down. It has different colored lights on it - blue, red, yellows. It is hovering and spinning as I type -- it is now over Oak Creek Canyon -- time is now 8:46pm MST. Our caller from Sedona reports that the object is giving off beams of light toward the ground. She says she also sees an aircraft that was flying in the direction of the object flying inthe direction of the Sedona airport. Has anyone else spotted this object? Thanks, Joan -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: "Joan Johnson-Porter" <metamap@mail.sedona.net> Search for other documents from or mentioning: mail | d005734c |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:20:36 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:41:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >I very much doubt there was any involvement by Mufon Hq other than the >hostile statement about the meeting referred to in the post which sounds a >lot like Stacy.( I suspect Stacy knows a little bit more about this issue >than he is letting on. All this smoke he is creating might be a indication >that he made that hostile statement about the meeting or knows who did.) > Just speculation on my part however.) Speculation isn't the half of it, Ed. I've told you and the list a half dozen times or more that I know absolutely nothing about the incident, and that includes anything involving a 'hostile statement' on my part. You insist on calling me a liar. You, sir (and I use the word loosely), are a total intellectual fraud. >I hoped others involved with more information would come forward. > Unfortunately Stacy decided to jump on me rather than investigate. Poor Mr. Ed, just trying to get at the truth by spreading unsubstantiated rumors and along I come and rain on his parade rather than investigate. What a wagon load of malarkey! >If Stacy had not been so hostile he could still get the phone number from BB >of the people that hosted the event in question. Such a personal attack on >me for just putting the information in the Bulletin #26 undoubtably >intimidated those wanting to come forward including BB rider himself. Double malarkey. >My problem in all this is the way Stacy and Mufon react to criticism founded >or unfounded. >The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) So there you have it, people, straight from the horse's mouth: "criticism founded or *unfounded*"--it doesn't matter to Mr. Ed. As if we're not supposed to react with scorn to unfounded "criticism," which is not even criticism to begin with, but simple mud slinging. Komarek wouldn't know what honest criticism was if it crawled out of the slime and bit off both his ankles. Anyway, I'm outa here. Hope everyone enjoys their summer. Thanks to my CIA stipend, that includes a couple of weeks in Jackson Hole in my own case, where I'll be hiking with my CIA-issue wife and son and dreaming up new ways to control and suppress dissent. If I hear of any abductee meetings in the area, I have my flash camera with me. We know who you are and there's no hiding! Someone drop me a line when Ed's gone and maybe I'll have something else to say. I've wasted way too much time on the man as it is. And finally, I'm glad to see that Linda "Cortile" is now an expert on Roswell, too. Will miracles never cease? One can only wonder if it came about by sheer media osmosis, or merely by reading Ed Coma-wreck on the subject. Either way, it's still pretty amazing. One last question for Linda before I go. Is it true that you had no knowledge of the whereabouts of--and therefore no physical access to--the "mail drop" that Budd Hopkins set up in order to communicate with Dan and Richard? Curious minds would just like to know. Happy UFOs to everyone! Dennis MUFON Dragoon & Hit Man
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:19:19 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair Dear Ed Komarek, In response to your message about MUFON: >My problem in all this is the way Stacy and MUFON react >to criticism founded or unfounded. Let's see if others come >forward with their personal experiences about MUFON Hq. OK I've decided to step forward, yet again. The only email that has rattled my cage here (not necessarily from you actually -- I've enjoyed your posts) are the ones that attack MUFON as a whole. I cannot speak for the entire country but I can speak as a State Section Director in a large city such as Seattle. Contrary to what some people might believe, we don't have Sequin Texas breathing down our neck every second asking who we talk to, what did they say, what did they see, send the report asap! It just doesn't operate that way. Walt Andrus created an organization to help in the research and reporting of UFO's. Most people join MUFON to attend meetings where they can meet and talk to others about this phenomenon, get the latest news, and hear interesting speakers. We'd be thrilled if more people volunteered to be investigators but unfortunately most just join our chapter for a entertainment each month! Sorry to disillusion some, I am not here pumping out sightings and abduction reports each night to send to the "big cheese"! Granted any one of us can find fault in any organization, whether it be the Shiners (I've got a couple of gripes about them actually), the Masons, or for that matter the American Red Cross! I joined MUFON to be able to balance my curiosity and sanity of what might be going on. Speaking for myself, I am happiest in a room full of people who share the same interest -- UFO's. I like sitting in a group and pondering the possibilities of the universe around us. I can only hope that those who are reading will see the complete picture and understand that the "possible" opinion of any one individual should never reflect or detract the many good things that MUFON represents. Just my opinion......... Kathleen Andersen MUFON State Section Director - Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Skywatch: Sighting over Mesa Verde Monday May 25, From: "Skywatch International" <mail@phoenix.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:00:56 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 01:23:52 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Sighting over Mesa Verde Monday May 25, ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:20:59 -0600 (MDT) To: skywatch@phoenix.net (Col. Steve) From: whitewd@fone.net (White Wind Ranch) Subject: siting over Mesa Verde Monday There were four of us enjoying Memorial Day touring the ancient ruins of the mysterious Anasazi at Mesa Verde when my visiting sister and I noticed a stationary silver "circle" in the sky hovering below a vapor trail. This is what made it so noticeable. The newly forming vapor trail above the object was an excellent point of reference for comparison. It was quite high. It was around 12:30; we had just finished a tour. The other two in our party were in a discussion so just my sister and I conferred on this--we observed it for about five minutes. The two of us decided to send it a thought-message when it suddenly disappeared. Last night when I retrieved my e-mail, I noted that Art Bell and his wife gave an identical discription of what we saw--same day, same time, same length of observation, two states away (in my old stompin' grounds). I want to acknowledge the diligent work of the Colonel in providing this valuable service. The validation my sister and I received when we read the parallel report from Nevada not only supported our siting, but created a sense of commonality with our fellow "skywatchers" several states away! Thank you!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:38:02 -0400 Subject: Re: A layman's thoughts on 'propulsion' > Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:01:19 +0930 > From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: A layman's thoughts on "propulsion". Mike wrote: > I do not profess any great abilities as far as physics and > atmospheric dynamics go, but I do have a possible theory on how a > terrestrially engineered craft may be "propelled" through the atmosphere > by manipulation of the various atmospheric densities. ... > If a 'craft' was able to create and manipulate an area of decreased > atmospheric density in the proposed direction of travel (by means > unknown), would this not result in movement of the 'craft' into the area > of decreased resistance? > What I am trying to get at is that if such a process was successfully > able to be employed, would this not mean that the craft would be capable > of "silent running" ie. no sonic boom due to the 'craft' being enveloped > in a region of 'lower than ambient' atmospheric pressure, This general concept is pretty well known. From what I know, the best that aerodynamics engineers have been able to achieve that way is called "boundary-layer suction," which suction applied at the proper points along the airfoil extends the region of laminar flow and thus reduces the drag and increases the ratio of lift to drag. But they can't begin to apply it strongly enough over all the required surfaces to produce the results you'd like to see and to use it as the source of propulsion. Something very similar has been proposed by a genuine physicist, Hal Puthoff, as a hypothetical means of achieving faster-than-light travel within space. He proposed (based on previous work by M. Alcubierre), that the properties of space in the immediate vicinity of the spacecraft in its direction of travel might be altered by decreasing the magnetic permeability (mu) and/or dielectric permittivity (ep) of the vacuum there. Then, since the speed of light (c) is given by the inverse square root of the product mu x ep, the craft may be able to achieve a velocity close to that of the artificially increased value of c, which would be greater than the ordinary value of c. So it wouldn't be violating relativity. This is written up in Puthoff's article in _Physics Essays_, vol. 9 (1996), pp. 156-158. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Secrecy and general attacks From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:17:58 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:37:58 -0400 Subject: Secrecy and general attacks >Date: 28 May 97 14:18:20 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Secrecy and general attacks >>Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:37:18 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Secrecy and general attacks >Henny wrote; >>Why not treat everybody with respect to begin with. >I tried this once with three people who wanted my money. >They still beat me up. You should end that with a '?' if >it isn't rhetoric. When I forget the '?' it is rhetoric. >>Providing 'disinformation' is one of the ways of intentionally >>deceiving people. If that is what you mean, I am with you. >See, easy, isn't it? You could have thanked me for constructing a clear sentence from your raw material. >>As far as I can see, it's misinformation. >Yep, that's what it was OK. Now, what would have been the correct response? To >intimate both or steer the conversation around to the topic in hand? >>> You throw a ball, it bounces back. << >Ah, so that thing about respect is one-sided then? What I meant with that bouncing ball was that giving and taking respect is obviously two sided. In my opinion you were playing the man (Gary) instead of the ball and I hate to waste my time reading stuff that is devoid of real information. >>Because it stretches credulity that you cannot think of a few >>yourself. >I wasn't claiming there was ten and a 'top ten' at that. You did. I do >know a few, but I wanted to compare them with someone who had >a list. Now the complaint has changed from being presumptive >to not being presumptive enough? You know well enough what I meant. >>Again you miss the point. The leaks of government involvement into >>UFOs simply make it more probable that they indeed are involved. >'Involvement' is the loaded word there. MUFON investigates >UFOs and by implication is 'involved' but we don't suggest >that they have one they're disassembling one for spares. >Showing evidence of coverup relies on 'proving' a causual >link between _getting_ and _keeping_ alien technology. >Simply proving that the USAF was interested in unidentified >flying objects is not enough. I can tell you that the coastguard >and HM Customs & Excise are interested in UFOs in that regard. >With regard to the best leaks we have, in Bill Uhouse and Bob >Lazar, there is a real lack of specifics as to the uses that >this stuff is currently being put to. Lazar claims to have >known the 'wavelength' of gravity, and by inference this suggests >that tests would be done. Back in 1980. >Uhouse claims to have helped build a flight simulator that would >train USAF pilots in piloting _alien_ manufactured aircraft. >Again this dates from the 1990s, which shows a tad of disparity. >If you believe Wolf, then this places another spin on the first >two that draws some of their evidence into doubt. >It's a bloody mess. I don't see why. If the USAF had saucers in the eighties they still needed pilots in the nineties. The simulators would only suggest that they are getting a better grip on the training process. >If you take the relatively huge number of 'whistleblowers' at >face value and examine things they said, then they disagree on >a number of points. >You may have seen my statement on creating >confusion, I hope you're thinking about it seriously. The >question is, can we trust anything that comes from government >and are they capable of holding a piss up in a brewery (a drinking >party in a brewery). The official documents indicate involvement of the USAF and intel agencies spanning a time frame of some 50 years. That suggests various projects and locations and many people. If we agree that secrecy is compartmentalized then the big picture is unclear for all of the whistleblowers. That is by itself enough to explain the conflicting statements. >I tend to answer 'no' to both questions, and that colours my >judgement on what they can and cannot get away with, although >I'm far from a paragon on this. I'm _interested_ in all of this, >which is why I continue looking and avoid calling peoples >experience on qualifications, creed or belief. >In short, I don't think that anything promoted by Lazar, Wolf >or Uhouse can be remotely described as leaked, as there appears >to be no basis in fact. Ok, this could turn up, but until then >we're required to believe without questioning? I didn't suggest that and nobody did. >>>Yes, but I don't assume it's _real_. > >>Geez, somehow I expected this. > >Would you care to go into your reasons for believing in it? >I can't stress the sincerity with which I'm interested. > You have a habit of postulating that the people you debate are thinking in exactly the opposite way as you do. I don't have any reason to think that the MJ 12 training manual is real. At the same time it could be. I just presented another document that mentioned MJ 12. >>Very few people in Bletchley Park, UK, >>where Colossus was used, knew what the machine was. > >Until the early sixties, where two were in use at GCHQ. >The original colossus, built from GPO telephone parts was >disassembled after the war and replaced in GPO stores. > >Colossus has been common knowledge since 1972, and there >are hundreds of interviews from people who built, operated >and worked around Bletchley Park at the time. The Bletchley >park museum is currently sponsoring a rebuild of the original >colossus from those interviews, sketches and remembered plans >since Winnie ordered them destroyed after the war, no doubt >fearing for the huge business that Enigma presented to the >third world countries we sold the machine to. We did neglect >to mention that we'd broken the code in the early years of WWII, >and that wasn't revealed until 1979, as I recall. > >>The only >>documents that could identify the machine and its codes were >>top secret from WWII until 1997. And that was just NSA material. > >I obviously channeled that information then. OK, I said Colossus was top secret, but I was wrong. It was the code breaking algorithms that were kept secret for over 50 years. Parallel restored. >>Ask Gersten. > >I was asking you. What use is this. You brought Gersten up and said that he knew of 3,000 documents relating to UFOs. So ask him. Can I be any clearer? > >>If you stop using the word 'tad'- I don't have a clue - >>perhaps you would be more coherent. > >American slang - 'tad' means a small amount. > >>Secrecy is compartmentalized. > >And the GAO don't know this? > The GAO was ordered to investigate Roswell, not the documents you were talking about. There is that incoherence thing again. About their investigation: as private citizens GAO employees may be just as curious about UFOs as any other US citizen. As GAO employees they just tried to do as efficient a job as they could, because they have to pay their mortgages. The most efficient approach was to totally delegate the investigation to the USAF and accept the results, which they did. >>Why don't you go back to the Roman Empire to base your claims. > >I don't have to. I have a documents dating to the sixties that >relate to this department existing, although I find intelligence >from all eras interesting due to the evolution of ideas. I take >it you don't, and think it unecessary baggage to include history >in a discussion? No, but this is a public discussion. If you mention DI61 and don't explain it, nobody knows what you are talking about. > >>Elizabeth I who ruled England in the 17th Century. > >Sixteenth, Henny. She died in 1603. > Oootch, off by half a century. You see, nobody really cares. >>Readers are just as much uninformed about Queen Cleopatra's >>intrigues with Mark Antony > >Another intriguing time, but she shouldn't have annoyed Herod. > >>That's what I meant with DI meaning >>'Devoid of Information'. > >Then maybe you should be a bit more clear in your assertations. >I thought you were just insulting me rather than providing a >considered, reasoned point. How wrong could I be? > I was not insulting you. It's simply that I didn't like the glib way you tried to win an argument. I have no tolerance anymore for people who treat Ufology as an opportunity to show how smart they are. >>Hugs. > >Liebe und Licht, Veel liefs uit Holland. (I am so sorry I can't attach a picture postcard with a babe on it). __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 1/4 From: Ndunlks@aol.com [Nick Humphries] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:37:01 -0400 Subject: IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 1/4 -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List THE UFO GUIDE, by Nick Humphries, February 1994. Introduction to the First Edition You know the scene : You're reading one of the UFO newsgroups on Usenet=20 and you don't understand many of the terms used. What do you do? Go to=20 the next article? Skip the rest of the articles and go to the next=20 newsgroup even? No. You pick up your UFO Guide and find out what the hell it all means.=20 You'll then find the information that you want in easily digestible=20 bite-size chunks. This guide is only intended to give the reader the basic facts about the=20 subject. To find out more information about a certain aspect of ufology,=20 read some more books, most libraries should have a few UFO books and=20 usually hold them under the section of "Paranormal", "Occult" or "New=20 Age", despite the fact that ufology is neither of these. A short list of recommended UFO books are included in the Appendix,=20 along with a list of FTP sites that you can download further information=20 from. Read and enjoy! Nick Humphries, December 1993. Introduction to the Second Edition Yes, I know it's all a bit pretentious having the previous introductions=20 to the previous editions (or edition) of the UFO Guide, but I'm very=20 proud of it for many reasons. The main reason why I'm proud of this new edition is that it's bigger=20 and includes most of what I originally wanted to include in the first=20 edition but couldn't as I was rapidly running out of time. The UFO Guide=20 now has a source list just before the Appendix and a section on what to=20 do if you see a UFO. The mistakes in the First Edition have been=20 corrected and there are a few new entries in the A-Z bit. The next edition of the UFO Guide should be out in the Autumn. There may=20 be a few more formats of the Guide to go with the ASCII, HTML and=20 PostScript versions, I'm playing about with the idea of doing an MS-DOS=20 interactive Guide (those of you who have seen Project Galactic Guide=20 will know what sort of thing I mean, look in alt.galactic-guide if you=20 don't) and would welcome any views on how I should do this, as well as=20 any views on how to improve the Guide in general. My E-mail address is=20 below. Now read and enjoy! Nick Humphries, February 1994. My thanks go to Jason Hodgson and Russell Glennon for sub-editing the=20 Guide, to Murray Bott of MUFON New Zealand for the information on USA=20 UFO groups and the extra information on the MJ-12 controversy, and to=20 Charles Mcgrew for doing a very nice looking HTML/Mosaic version of the=20 Guide. DISCLAIMER : This Guide is provided "as is" and the author gives no=20 guarantee that the information contained in it is accurate, precise,=20 truthful or any other words meaning "correct". HOWEVER : If you _do_ find that there are some inconsistencies in the=20 Guide or that I've got something wrong, tell me so that I can include it=20 in the next edition of the Guide. if you also think that I've missed=20 something or somebody out of the Guide, tell me for the same reason. My=20 E-mail address is "u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk". My thanks go to Jason Hodgson and Russell Glennon for sub-editing the=20 Guide. =95Adamski, George =95AFOSI =95Anomaly (AN Rating) =95APRO =95Area-51= =95Arnold,=20 Kenneth =95Bennewitz, Paul =95Black Projects =95BUFORA =95Cash/Landrum Case= =95 Cattle Mutilations =95Close Encounter (CE Rating) =95Collins, Robert =95Cond= on=20 Report =95Condor =95Cooper, Milton William =95CUFOS =95Dark Side Hypothesis= =95 Daylight Disk =95Disinformation =95Doty, Richard =95Dreamland =95EBD =95ET= =95ET=20 Exposure Law =95Falcon =95Fire in the Sky =95Fly-By (FB Rating) =95Flying= Saucer =95Flying Saucer Review =95FOIA =95Foo Fighters =95Ghost Rockets =95Good,= Timothy =95Greys, The =95Gulf Breeze Sightings =95Hill Abduction Case =95Hynek=20 Classification System =95Hypnotic Regression =95International UFO Reporter= =20 (IUR) =95Journal of UFO Studies (JUFOS) =95Just Cause =95Lazar, Robert Scott= =95 Lear, John =95Manoeuvre (MA Rating) =95Majestic =95Men In Black (MIBs) =95 Missing Time =95MJ-12 =95Moore, William =95MUFON =95Nocturnal Light= =95Oeschler,=20 Robert =95Paranet =95Projects =95Radar-Visuals =95Roswell Case =95S-4= =95Sagan, Carl =95SETI =95SVP Rating =95UFO =95"UFO TIMES" =95Ufology =95Vallee, Jacques= =95Vallee=20 Classification System =95Vimanas =95Travis Walton Abduction Case =95Zeta=20 Reticuli =95Sources =95Appendix I =95Appendix II - What to do if you see a= UFO =95The First Last Word =95The Second Last Word =95Legal Stuff=20 --A-- ADAMSKI, GEORGE A UFO hoaxer, the most famous hoax is the Adamski=20 photographs of UFOs that were later revealed to be fake. He also claimed=20 to have met Venusians in 1952 and started spreading the word of the=20 Cosmic Philosophy. AFOSI US Air Force Office of Special Investigations. ANOMALY (AN RATING) See VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. APRO The US based Aerial Phenomenon Research Organisation. AREA 51 The Groom Dry Lake area of the Nellis Air Force Range and=20 Nuclear Test Site in the Nevada desert, about 80 miles NNW of Las Vegas.=20 It is here that the US government is test-flying highly secret BLACK=20 PROJECT aircraft, including UFOs, for a number of years. ARNOLD, KENNETH On 24th June 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold observed nine=20 boomerang-shaped craft flying over the Cascade Mountains in Washington -=20 the sighting which gave BENNEWITZ, PAUL In the late 1970's, an=20 Alberquerque businessman named Paul Bennewitz started to monitor unusual=20 electromagnetic pulses from what he thought were UFOs flying above the=20 nearby Manzano Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility near Kirtland Air Force=20 Base. He came to the conclusion that these pulses _may_ be controlling=20 implanted abductees, so he started attempting to decode the pulses, and=20 thought he was on the right path. He contacted APRO about his theory,=20 but they wouldn't believe him, so he contacted AFOSI in October 1980,=20 where he was put in touch with RICHARD DOTY. He filled out a few forms=20 and sent in some tape he had filmed of some UFOs over the Nuclear=20 Storage Facility and Doty started to feed Bennewitz DISINFORMATION about=20 the US government's involvement with the UFO phenomenon, including tales=20 of US/alien pacts, alien bases in various places around the world, and=20 of experiments that the aliens carried out with humans to create hybrids=20 and androids. Bennewitz believed all of it. Doty then got WILLIAM MOORE to pass on more disinformation on to him, and Bennewitz got more and=20 more paranoid and eventually went insane. Bennewitz told JOHN LEAR what=20 he had heard and Lear took this into account when he wrote his DARK SIDE=20 HYPOTHESIS. BLACK PROJECTS Government projects that are considered as technological=20 secrets. About $US50bn are invested in US black projects a year. BUFORA The British UFO Research Organisation is the largest UFO group in=20 Great Britain and has been going since 1964. As well as doing research=20 into the UFO phenomena, it publishes the bi-monthly journal "UFO TIMES". --C-- CASH/LANDRUM CASE In December 1980, Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and her=20 grandson Colby Landrum, were driving along a road in Huffman, Texas when=20 they saw a bright light in the sky. After driving a little more along=20 the road, they came across a large diamond shaped UFO hovering over the=20 road belching fire out of the bottom. Since the flames were blocking the=20 road, they had to stop the car about 65 yards away from the craft and=20 the three of them got out. Vickie and Colby stayed by the car, whereas=20 Betty went on to get a closer look. She spent a long time gazing at it=20 and her skin began to burn because of the heat from the flames. She=20 returned to the car when the object began to rise and a large number of=20 unmarked black helicopters chased after the UFO. When they got home,=20 they started suffering from sunburn, diarrhoea and vomiting. It has been=20 claimed that the craft was a US attempt at making a UFO since it was=20 spewing out flames at the bottom and was joined by many helicopters=20 later on (See PROJECT SNOWBIRD). CATTLE MUTILATIONS A world-wide problem, cattle are killed and the body=20 is left on the farm in various conditions. On studying the body, it has=20 been found that the body has been _totally_ drained of blood and that=20 there has been no trace of blood found anywhere on the ground around the=20 body. Various incisions would also be found on the body that were so=20 clear cut that they would have had to have been done with some sort of=20 laser technology that we didn't have when the mutilations started=20 (before 1970). Bones were also clearly cut with no bone fragments around=20 the cut. The bodies would be missing various parts which had also shown=20 to have been removed with accurate precision. UFOs have been linked with=20 these mutilations since they have been sighted at the same time in the=20 same area where the mutilated bodies have been found. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (CE RATING) See HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM and VALLEE=20 CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. COLLINS, ROBERT See "CONDOR". CONDON REPORT The result of an investigation into PROJECT BLUE BOOK in=20 1969 by Dr Edward Condon. He started the investigation saying that all=20 UFOs are "bunk", people who believed in them were "kooks", the authors=20 of UFO books should be "horsewhipped" and that Blue Book was a waste of=20 time. As a consequence, the report concluded that all UFO sightings were=20 explainable and that UFOs didn't pose a defence threat. "CONDOR" Also known as Robert Collins who took part in a DISINFORMATION program with WILLIAM MOORE and RICHARD DOTY against PAUL BENNEWITZ. COOPER, MILTON WILLIAM Known as Bill Cooper, this is one man who the UFO=20 community does not trust anymore. He used to work for the US Air Force=20 and claims to have then moved on into Naval Intelligence. He made his=20 debut on PARANET with a report on a UFO sighting he had whilst on the=20 USS Tiru, a US Naval submarine. That report was accepted in good faith.=20 He then began to send in details about various secret projects that he=20 alleged the US governments were involved in during his time in=20 intelligence. When asked for evidence to back his claims up by UFO=20 researchers, he replied abusively. His reports continued to be sent in=20 and the researchers still questioned him about backup evidence.=20 Eventually he was barred from Paranet. He still wrote the reports and=20 sent them into various bulletin boards anonymously, this time accusing=20 the UFO researchers that questioned his authenticity as people who are=20 working for the government to spread DISINFORMATION to the public. Bill=20 Cooper is now a highly paid lecturer who lectures about his=20 "experiences" and also claims that JFK was assassinated by the driver of=20 the car because he wanted to make details about UFOs public and that we=20 had bases on the Moon and on Mars built in the 1950's. Evidence : none=20 for the bases and a seventh generation copy of the film showing the=20 assassination that is very bad quality. He also claims that the aliens=20 in US TV series "Alien Nation" are real aliens who were employed as part=20 of an indoctrination program so that the public will accept the reality=20 of aliens more easily. Bill Cooper's sources for his hypothesis is a=20 mixture of the claims of PAUL BENNEWITZ, BILL MOORE, JOHN LEAR and BOB=20 LAZAR and added a few unfounded theories he invented himself. When Bob=20 Lazar was on a phone-in in 1989 ("Billy Goodman's Happening", 21/11/89)=20 whilst he was going public, Cooper called in and said that he had talked=20 to Lazar for over a year and that he had checked out his claims and they=20 are all genuine. Then, some months later, Cooper changes his mind and=20 says that Lazar is a fraud and had always known he was a fraud ever=20 since he first went public. This is just one example of the many U-turns=20 and inconsistencies that Cooper has carried out over the years. CUFOS The Centre for UFO Studies was founded in 1973 by Dr J. Allen=20 Hynek four years after his work at PROJECT BLUE BOOK ended. It publishes=20 the bi-monthly journal "INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER" and an annual=20 "JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES". --D-- DARK SIDE HYPOTHESIS This is a brief run-through of JOHN LEAR's Dark=20 Side Hypothesis : Dozens of flying saucers have crashed over the years=20 and the US government has recovered all of them and launched Project=20 Redlight in 1962 whose aims were to discover how to fly these recovered=20 craft and was caover the yearS-4 at AREA 51. Lear claims that this area=20 is no longer in US control, the aliens have taken over the area. The US=20 government then made a deal with the aliens in which the aliens could=20 control a segment of S-4 and abduct as many people as they want, in=20 return for their technology and that they provided a list of people that=20 they intended to abduct. In 1973, the US government discovered that the=20 aliens were abducting more people than they had listed and there was a=20 confrontation and in 1978/9 the aliens held and then killed 44 top=20 scientists and some of the Delta Force troops sent in to rescue them.=20 The deal was then broken but the aliens stayed and were abducting as=20 many as 1 in 10 Americans to use in experiments, mutilating these=20 abductees and producing androids in underground laboratories. Sometime=20 in the 1980's the US government and the aliens got together again and=20 are working together so that the US can gain some more alien technology.=20 Lear claims that there is a secret US government that is overseeing the=20 abductions and that the abductees have implants in them that control=20 them so that when an ideal time came, the secret government could=20 enslave them and control them via drug addiction. The head of the secret=20 government would be MJ-12. Lear's sources were PAUL BENNEWITZ, BOB LAZAR and, later on, BILL COOPER. When Bob Lazar went public on US TV in=20 1989, he said that he did not believe any of Lear's claims and distanced=20 himself from Lear and any of his associates. DAYLIGHT DISK See HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. DISINFORMATION A strategy used by the governments of the world to cover=20 up any knowledge they have of UFOs. Disinformation is when a person or=20 organisation lies to a person by knowingly giving him or her fake=20 documents or telling them false "facts". DOTY, RICHARD The AFOSI Special Agent who fed PAUL BENNEWITZ=20 DISINFORMATION and employed WILLIAM MOORE to feed Bennewitz more=20 information and to spy on various prominent ufologists. Doty was given=20 the code name "FALCON" by Moore when they both appeared with "CONDOR" on=20 "UFO Cover-Up...Live" in the US. The show was a big embarrassment to the=20 UFO community when they claimed that EBE's were living in secret=20 hideaways and like strawberry ice cream and Tibetan music. DREAMLAND The nickname for AREA 51. -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: Ndunlks@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 2/4 From: Ndunlks@aol.com [Nick Humphries] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:37:16 -0400 Subject: IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 2/4 -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List --E-- EBE Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities. An unofficial term that is=20 used to refer to aliens that originated from the MJ-12 briefing=20 document. ET Extra-terrestrial. A term used to refer to aliens. ET EXPOSURE LAW In July 1969, the ET Exposure Law was added to US law=20 without public debate, a law that prohibits anyone to come into contact=20 with a UFO or any aliens. If a person breaks this law, he or she can be=20 fined up to $5000 (yes, _five_thousand_dollars_, approximately 3300 UK=20 pounds) and be jailed for up to a year. On top of that, a NASA=20 administrator is empowered to determine, with or without a hearing, if a=20 person has been "extra-terrestrially exposed" and can impose that the=20 person can be locked up in quarantine under armed guard for _any_ period=20 of time. The decision cannot be reversed, not even by a court order,=20 making the law completely against the American Constitution. The law=20 also effectively makes anyone involved in a CLOSE ENCOUNTER a criminal.=20 Since the law is in Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal=20 Regulations, very few people know about it since you would have had to=20 have gone through at least 1210 other laws in the book to find it. --F-- "FALCON" Almost universally believed to be former AFOSI Special Agent=20 RICHARD DOTY. "FIRE IN THE SKY" Big screen movie based on the TRAVIS WALTON ABDUCTION=20 CASE. It _isn't_ a true documentary, various facts have been missed out=20 or changed to make the film more interesting. FLY-BY (FB RATING) See VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. FLYING SAUCER When Kenneth Arnold reported his 1947 daylight sighting of=20 nine boomerang-shaped UFOs over the north west of the USA, a newspaper=20 covered the story and called the crafts "flying saucers" because Arnold=20 said that their movements were similar to that of a saucer skipping=20 across the surface of a lake despite the fact that the UFOs weren't=20 saucer-shaped. The name stuck. "FLYING SAUCER REVIEW" The longest running UFO journal in existence,=20 running since the 1950's. Unfortunately not the authoritative journal it=20 used to be in its heyday due to changes of editors. The current editor,=20 Gordon Creighton believes that we are all being controlled by alien=20 forces of some sort and that we can do nothing to stop them. He is also=20 convinced that a significant percentage of the Earth's population is=20 half-alien-half-human, and some people are completely alien. FOIA Freedom of Information Act. This is an American law that allows=20 members of the public to obtain copies of classified documents by having=20 all or parts of the documents declassified by order of a federal judge.=20 The judge may refuse the declassification of a document if it is=20 necessary for the document to remain classified because it affects=20 national security. At least, that is in theory. In practice it has been=20 very unreliable, if one group requests for a set of documents and gets=20 them, it doesn't necessarily mean that a second group will be able to=20 get them. If the government denies they've got the documents that you=20 are looking for, they may not be telling the truth. It has been known=20 for a government to deny that it has _any_ documents on an incident yet=20 they release some a few months later. FOO FIGHTERS Shiny metallic-looking sphere seen floating in the skies in=20 World War II from 1943 onwards. After the war, neither side claimed to=20 have sent them up there. The Americans called them "foo fighters", a=20 term derived from a comic-strip phrase "Where there's foo, there's=20 fire." --G-- GHOST ROCKETS In 1946, over two thousand UFOs were observed flying above=20 Scandinavia. They looked like missiles with a flame exhaust at one end,=20 but travelled at varying speeds (from very fast to fairly slow) and=20 performed various exotic manoeuvres at these speeds. There were reports=20 at the time that some had landed and exploded. Neither East nor West=20 admitted launching these rockets. Western scientists analysed fragments=20 from these missiles and said that they were made of an organic substance=20 that resembled carbide. When a Greek investigation publicly announced in=20 1967 that these were not missiles, the investigation was ordered to=20 close by the Army and further information was covered in a blanket of=20 secrecy. GREYS The most common type of alien seen in CLOSE ENCOUNTER cases.=20 Height varies from two feet to five feet, are humanoid, and usually have=20 black bug-like eyes, little or no nose and a small slit for a mouth. GOOD, TIMOTHY Author of best selling books "Above Top Secret", "Alien=20 Liaison", "Alien Update" and the "UFO Report" series. "Above Top Secret"=20 documented the worldwide government cover-up of UFO related material and=20 incidents. It also published the faked MJ-12 briefing document. Despite=20 that, it is widely regarded as _the_ book to read if you're seriously=20 interested in UFOs. "Alien Liaison" went one step further by dealing=20 with disinformation, CATTLE MUTILATIONS and the ROBERT LAZAR case, but=20 is thought of as fairly unreliable since parts of it were heavily=20 influenced by the claims in the MJ-12 documents, the claims of BILL=20 MOORE, and also the claims of BOB OESCHLER that he worked on a top=20 secret project to produce an exhibition called "Cosmic Journey" in which=20 the US government was allegedly going to display a preserved alien body=20 and a section of a UFO. "Alien Update" can be thought of as "UFO Report=20 1993" since it is in exactly the same format as the other books in the=20 "UFO Report" series. GULF BREEZE SIGHTINGS A series of UFO sightings in Gulf Breeze, Florida=20 that have taken place since 1987, but the most concentrated period of=20 sightings was between November 1987 and May 1988 and were centred around=20 Ed and Frances Walters. During this period, Ed claims that aliens have=20 attempted to abduct both him and his wife using a blue ray, but failed.=20 He also claims that he knew when another encounter with a UFO was=20 imminent because he would feel a humming noise in his head. When he got=20 this humming noise, he would rush out with his camera and would take a=20 picture of the UFO which would be waiting for him in the sky. The=20 Walters took a total of forty photos with various cameras over that=20 period and all of them were evaluated by various scientists and were=20 proved that they were not faked. The most impressive photos included a=20 blue ray that was used to transport people to and from the UFOs, a UFO=20 photographed that was partially obscured by a tree (very hard to fake)=20 and also the same UFO hovering above a highway with a reflection on the=20 road of the bright light on the underside of the UFO. --H-- HILL ABDUCTION CASE A controversial abduction case, controversial=20 because it all hinges on information gained by performing HYPNOTIC=20 REGRESSION on Betty and Barney Hill. In September 1961, the Hills were=20 returning from a holiday and were driving along a New Hampshire road=20 when they saw a bright light moving rapidly in the sky. They stopped the=20 car and got out to have a closer look with binoculars. The light then=20 reversed its direction and the couple got back into their car and drove=20 on. The light then turned back and approached their car, so they stopped=20 again to look at it. The craft was coin shaped with blue lighted windows=20 along the edge, through which they saw figures running about. Barney=20 walked over the road to get an even better look when two wings came out=20 of either side of t1961, the Hills were returning from a holiday and=20 were driving along a New Hampshire road when they saw a bright light=20 moving rapidly in the sky. They stopped the car and got out to have a=20 closer look with binoculars. The light then reversed its direction and=20 the couple got back into their car and drove on. The light then turned=20 back and approached their car, so they stopped again to look at it. The=20 craft was coin shaped with blue lighted windows along the edge, through=20 which they saw figures running about. Barney walked over the road to get=20 an even better look when two wings came out of either side of the craft=20 which had red lights on the wing tips. He then got shocked and _very_=20 agitated and ran back into the car and the two of them went back on=20 their journey home. When they got back, they realised that they were=20 some two hours late and they didn't know why. After a few days, Betty=20 had a series of disturbing dreams relating to a possible UFO abduction,=20 so she and Barney agreed to go under hypnotic regression to try and find=20 out just _what_ happened during those two lost hours. The two were sent=20 into a hypnotic sleep both together and separately, and both stories=20 matched up with each other for the times when they were together during=20 the UFO incident. The story went like this: When the Hills stopped the=20 car the second time, it was because it was stalled by the UFO. The two=20 were helped out of their car by a few men (alien men) and were taken off=20 of the road and up a ramp into ZETA RETICULI system. HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM A system used to categorize the various=20 types of UFO sightings invented by Dr J. Allen Hynek. The categories are=20 as follows...=20 =95NOCTURNAL LIGHT Any anomalous light(s) seen in the night sky whose=20 description rules out the possibilities of aircraft lights, stars,=20 meteors and the like. =95DAYLIGHT DISK UFOs seen in the distant daytime=20 sky. The UFOs classed in this category can be other shapes as well, like=20 cigars, eggs and ovals. =95RADAR-VISUALS Where UFOs are tracked on radar=20 and can be seen at the place illustrated at the same time. =95CLOSE=20 ENCOUNTERS... =95OF THE FIRST KIND (CEI) A UFO in close proximity (within=20 approx 500 feet) of the witness. =95OF THE SECOND KIND (CEII) A UFO that=20 leaves markings on the ground, causes burns or paralysis to humans,=20 frightens animals, interferes with car engines or TV and radio=20 reception. =95OF THE THIRD KIND (CEIII) A CEI or CEII which have visible=20 occupants.=20 There are also two more unofficial classes of Close Encounter...=20 =95OF THE FOURTH KIND (CEIV) Abduction cases. =95OF THE FIFTH KIND (CEV)=20 Communication occurs between a person and an alien.=20 HYPNOTIC REGRESSION There is a theory that everything you see and hear=20 is stored into the subconscious memory, and that it is possible to=20 recount experiences via the use of hypnotic regression, in which the=20 person is sent into a trance and re-enacts the experience. However, such=20 a tool is very unreliable since they could be thinking about something=20 else or mix two different experiences together. Another problem with=20 hypnotic regression is interpreting what is recounted. In a non-UFO=20 related case, an English girl was sent into a hypnotic state and started=20 to talk non-stop in French. What she said was recorded and the=20 investigator concluded that the girl must have been French in a past=20 life. This theory was readily accepted until someone read the=20 transcription of what the girl had said and found that it was an _exact_=20 copy of a French text she had read. It has also been found that=20 pathological liars can lie whilst under hypnosis. --I-- INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER (IUR)CUFOS journal that is published=20 bi-monthly that summarizes current sightings and UFO news. --J-- JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES (JUFOS)CUFOS annual journal that contains=20 scholarly papers on UFOLOGY. JUST CAUSEA journal that is published quarterly by CAUS (Citizens=20 Against UFO Secrecy) and has been published since 1984. --L-- LAZAR, ROBERT SCOTT Robert Lazar is a scientist with two masters=20 degrees, one in physics, the other in electronics. He wrote his thesis=20 on magnetohydrodynamics (MHD). He has worked in Los Alamos as a=20 technician and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section=20 dealing with particle accelerators. In his spare time, he has built a=20 jet powered car _and_ a jet powered motorbike (max. speed 350mph!), as=20 well as a car capable of running off of hydrogen. In March 1989, Lazar=20 appeared on KLAS-TV in the US claiming to have worked in an above Top=20 Secret installation known as S-4, ten miles south of AREA 51 in the=20 Nevada desert. He was a scientist who was employed between December 1988=20 and April 1989 to examine a captured flying saucer to try and reverse=20 engineer the saucer's propulsion mechanism. He claims that there were=20 nine different saucers at S-4, although he was only working on one of=20 them. He was told that the crafts used a propulsion system that uses=20 gravity waves, a theory that mainstream science hasn't discovered yet=20 (scientists don't know what gravity actually _is_, there are many=20 theories, but there hasn't been one that is universally accepted yet)=20 and the energy needed is supplied by irradiating Element 115, an element=20 not found on Earth and which cannot be synthesized. A kilogram of the=20 element releases the same amount of energy as 47 10-megaton hydrogen=20 bombs. He says that he had 500 pounds (227.27kg) of the element to work=20 with, but each craft only needed 223 grams of the element. Whilst=20 working on one of the craft, he was allowed to actually go inside the=20 craft and he was also present at a test flight in which the craft=20 underwent a few simple manoeuvres in the air. When he went public in=20 March 1989, he appeared on US TV in shadow with his voice altered, under=20 the pseudonym "Dennis", an inside joke since his boss at S-4 was called=20 Dennis Mariani, in an attempt to remain anonymous. On 29/3/89 he took=20 three of his friends, one of them John Lear, to the edge of S-4 to=20 observe any UFO test flights through a telescope. They saw (and filmed)=20 a bright light rise in a step manoeuvre, that is, it would hover in the=20 air, briefly disappear and reappear a few feet higher, and then the=20 light went down in the same way. When they went again the following week=20 on 6/4/89, they were caught by a security guard. Their ID details were=20 recorded on a computer in Area 51 and they were ordered to leave the=20 area, despite it being public land. They did leave and the following=20 day, Lazar was ordered to go to Area 51 for a meeting with some security=20 guards and an FBI agent. It was then that he resigned and left. After he=20 was fired at whilst travelling on an Interstate highway, he decided that=20 he'd better go public on TV under his own name, the theory being that if=20 anyone kills him after going completely public, then that action would=20 prove that he was telling the truth. He went on TV to tell the full=20 story in November 1989 and his story has (to my knowledge) remained=20 consistent since then. LEAR, JOHN The estranged son of Bill Lear, inventor of the Lear Jet.=20 John Lear is the only pilot who holds every airman certificate awarded=20 by the Federal Aviation Administration. He has flown over 160 different=20 type of aircraft and had flown many missions for the CIA. He is a friend=20 of PAUL BENNEWITZ who told Lear everything that he had heard from=20 RICHARD DOTY and WILLIAM MOORE and Lear believed most of it. Lear was=20 also a friend of ROBERT LAZAR who told him about the various goings on=20 at AREA 51; Moore showed him the various documents he had been given by=20 Doty, and from those three sources began work on his Lear Hypothesis,=20 also known as the DARK SIDE HYPOTHESIS. He then subscribed to Paranet=20 and found a friend in BILL COOPER. With Cooper's help, he finished his=20 hypothesis and sent it to the Paranet Bulletin Board. He then decided to=20 test the UFO society by faking some government documents about aliens,=20 the Krlll (pronounced "Krill") Files. All of the UFO society (but one)=20 checked out the material included in the files and found large=20 inconsistencies and lies. The one person who didn't was Cooper, who=20 claimed to have seen the documents when he was working for the=20 government. When the files were declared as faked, Lear and Cooper were=20 barred from Paranet and the friendship between them broke down, Cooper=20 accusing Lear of being a government agent. Lear is now lecturing about=20 his Hypothesis. -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: Ndunlks@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 3/4 From: Ndunlks@aol.com [Nick Humphries] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:37:31 -0400 Subject: IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 3/4 -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List --M-- MAJESTIC The highest security level known, higher than the Atom Bomb and=20 effectively thirty-eight levels higher than Top Secret due to the=20 compartmentalization of information. There are allegedly over thirty=20 compartments of Top Secret which means that if you have a Top Secret=20 clearance, it doesn't mean that you have access to all Top Secret=20 documents, you must require the "need to know". Documents that require=20 the "need to know" are classified as Top Secret xxx, where xxx can be=20 any one of over thirty code names. Documents about S-4/AREA 51 happenings are classed as "Majestic". MANOEUVRE (MA RATING) See VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. MEN IN BLACK (MIBs) These are people who dress up in black suits and=20 travel around in sleek shiny black cars and helicopters threatening UFO=20 witnesses, to keep them quiet about their experiences. No one is quite=20 sure who the MIBs are or who they represent, the government or the=20 aliens. MISSING TIME Some people say that when they return from a UFO sighting,=20 they found that a period of time had passed which he or she couldn't=20 account for. This can be minutes, hours, or even days which are=20 unaccounted for. This is the phenomena of missing time. MJ-12 The MJ-12 (standing for "Majestic Twelve") mystery was sparked off=20 with the 1987 publication of an alleged briefing document from ex-US=20 President Truman to President-Elect Eisenhower in November 1953. The=20 document dealt with government knowledge about UFOs, aliens, and above=20 Top Secret projects. It listed the twelve members as Dr Lloyd Berkner,=20 Dr Detlev Bronk, Dr Vannevar Bush, James Forrestal, Gordon Gray, Vice=20 Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, Dr Jerome Hunsaker, Dr Donald Menzel,=20 General Robert Montague, Rear Admiral Sidney Souers, General Nathan=20 Twining and General Hoyt Vandenberg. James Forrestal had a mental=20 breakdown and committed suicide in 1949 and was replaced by General=20 Walter Smith. MJ-12 (also known as Majic-12, Majority-12, Majesty-12) is=20 allegedly a Top Secret research and development/intelligence operation=20 set up by and answerable to the US President. All thirteen members had=20 died by the time the briefing document was publicised, so none of the=20 details could be checked out. What could be verified was the document's=20 authenticity, and when it was found that the signature on the briefing=20 document was identical in ratio to a 1947 memo from President Truman to=20 Vannevar Bush and the briefing document was proved to be a fake. However=20 the MJ-12 controversy still rumbled on with people saying that although=20 the document has been proved to be a piece of DISINFORMATION, parts of=20 it must therefore be true. The document touched upon the ROSWELL CASE,=20 as well as PROJECTS SIGN, GRUDGE and BLUE BOOK and KENNETH ARNOLD's=20 sighting of nine flying saucers, all of which have been proved to be=20 true by UFO researchers. Ufologists were split as to whether there=20 _ever_was_ a Majestic 12. When ROBERT LAZAR revealed that his work was=20 classified as MAJESTIC, it added weight to the opinion that there may=20 have indeed been such an organisation. Opinions differ as to what MJ-12=20 could be if it exists, some say it was a simple committee that evaluated=20 the UFO reports that were siphoned out of PROJECT BLUE BOOK, while=20 others say that they are running the CIA, FBI, the world's drugs market=20 and are planning to take over the world and rule in partnership with the=20 GREYS. MOORE, WILLIAM Moore is an ex-teacher who chose to go into the writing=20 profession in 1979 and was very involved in an investigation of the 1947=20 ROSWELL CASE. He worked with APRO for a while before accepting a place=20 on the APRO board. He learnt about PAUL BENNEWITZ's claims from fellow=20 board member Jim Lorenzen, but didn't take too great an interest in the=20 case. Whilst he was on a promotional radio show tour promoting his new=20 book "The Roswell Incident", he received phone calls, at two different=20 radio stations, from a nearby Air Force Base sergeant who wanted to meet=20 him. When the first call came, he was too busy, but after the second=20 call, they arranged a meeting and there he met RICHARD DOTY. Doty told=20 him that he (and nine other military people, all ten identified by names=20 of birds) would tell him various "facts" of what the US government was=20 up to in regard to UFOs if he spied on APRO and passed DISINFORMATION on=20 to Paul Bennewitz. Moore complied and was exposed to various Top Secret=20 documents about highly sensitive government projects, including PROJECTS=20 SIGMA, REDLIGHT, AQUARIUS, GALILEO, POUNCE and SNOWBIRD. In return,=20 Moore gave Bennewitz doctored documents given to him by Doty. Moore=20 learnt that the US government had indeed worked with aliens in advancing=20 US space technology, and that three EBEs had been kept in various Air=20 Force Bases. In October 1988, Moore went public on the TV show "UFO=20 Cover-Up...Live" with "FALCON" and "CONDOR" who would tell the same=20 stories that they had told Moore. That show was considered to be the=20 most farcical embarrassment ever broadcast due to the fact that the=20 informant's revelations included declarations that the aliens liked=20 Tibetian style music and strawberry ice cream. Moore was devastated, and=20 in the 1989 MUFON annual conference, he confessed that he had passed on=20 disinformation from Doty to Bennewitz in order to investigate deeper=20 into the UFO riddle and revealed that he had spied on various=20 personalties in ufology. MUFON The Mutual UFO Network was established in 1969 and is the world's=20 largest international UFO organisation. It publishes the monthly "MUFON=20 UFO Journal" --N-- NOCTURNAL LIGHT See HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. --O-- OESCHLER, ROBERT Bob Oeschler joined the US Air Force in 1968 in the=20 American Forces Radio and Television service filming classified=20 prototype weapons systems during the Vietnam War. When he returned to=20 the US, he spent eighteen months at Wright-Patterson AFB before working=20 for NASA, specializing in missions technical analysis as a prototype=20 desig1968 in the American Forces Radio and Television service filming=20 classified prototype weapons systems during the Vietnam War. When he=20 returned to the US, he spent eighteen months at Wright-Patterson AFB=20 before working for NASA, specializing in missions technical analysis as=20 a prototype designer of control and mobile surveillance systems. He gets=20 his information from his alleged contacts in the US Intelligence=20 Community. A controversial character, his work in ufology seems to be=20 OK, even though he has made the odd wild claim. He has claimed to have=20 worked on a government project called "Cosmic Journey" which was an=20 exhibition of the various US space missions and included a section on=20 aliens. He claims that there was going to be a UFO in the exhibition=20 along with a cryogenically preserved alien body. This project was then=20 shelved indefinitely due to the 1988 US presidential election. Then, in=20 October 1993, he gave a radio interview on BBC Radio One and claimed=20 thatGULF BREEZE photos with Bruce Maccabee), his claims of secret=20 government projects are very suspect. --P-- PARANET Paranet is a moderated forum founded by Jim Spieser in 1986=20 originally dedicated to the paranormal as well as UFOs, although the UFO=20 side grabbed the most attention. Originally distributed as a newsletter=20 via E-mail, it now consists of a set of newsgroups on Usenet. It was the=20 first organisation that spread news of the ROBERT LAZAR story around the=20 world and was also the forum in which MILTON WILLIAM COOPER made his=20 debut and his reputation as a person not to be trusted. PROJECT... =95AQUARIUS A Top Secret project that was started in 1953 and was set up=20 to accumulate as much data as possible about alien life forms and to=20 distribute the collected information to the relevant projects. Its=20 existence was revealed by WILLIAM MOORE when he released three pages of=20 a "Project Aquarius Executive Briefing Document" to the public.=20 Unfortunately for Moore, this document is now thought to be a fake due=20 to its sloppy presentation (there was a logo on the cover which looked=20 like it had been drawn on with a felt-tip pen) as well as missing=20 background detail. Moore was asked to release more proof that Project=20 Aquarius existed, but he refused, saying that the burden of proof is on=20 those saying that the document is a hoax. =95BLUE BOOK The last publicly=20 acknowledged USAF investigation into UFOs, and something of a=20 controversial one, which started in March 1952. Its aims were to find=20 explanations for UFO sightings, to assess whether they were a threat to=20 national security, and to determine if the UFOs used advanced technology=20 from which the US could learn. Reports were collected, analyzed and=20 filed according to their results. No-one noticed anything was wrong with=20 the project until one of the people on the investigation team sent in=20 his own sighting. It was filed, but when he wanted to refer back to his=20 report, it had disappeared. He then alleged that any reports that were=20 both unexplained and could cause public uproar were siphoned off out of=20 Blue Book to somewhere else higher up in authority, a claim that=20 ufologists now see as fact. Blue Book was wound up in 1969 as a result=20 of the CONDON REPORT and one of its investigators, Dr J. Allen Hynek,=20 went on to form the first scientific based UFO group, the Center for UFO=20 Studies, in 1973. =95GALILEO An S-4 project dealing with flying recovered=20 discs. =95GRUDGE The successor to PROJECT SIGN which was launched to=20 effectively denounce the UFO problem. Journalists were encouraged to=20 write articles saying that UFOs didn't exist. The final report said=20 that, despite getting 23% more reports than Project Sign did, all=20 sightings could be dismissed on psychological ground and that any=20 further investigation should be downgraded greatly, which it was.=20 Project Grudge was shut down in 1950. =95POUNCE A Top Secret project in=20 1953 that evaluated all UFOs in order to gain more space technology=20 knowledge. =95SIGMA An ongoing 1954 Top Secret project that looked into=20 how to communicate with aliens. That projects existence was revealed in=20 the PROJECT AQUARIUS Briefing Document and is said to have succeeded in=20 1964 when a USAF intelligence officer met two other aliens at a=20 prearranged location in a desert in New Mexico. However, there is a=20 "Project Sigma" listed in the 1986 Defence Marketing Services Code Name=20 Directory as a "Top Secret Air Force program involving Rockwell=20 International" and has been officially identified as a laser weapons=20 project. =95SIGN The first official USAF UFO investigation which started=20 in January 1948. Its brief was to determine what UFOs were. It lasted=20 until February 1949, its final report saying that 20% of the cases were=20 unexplainable. =95SNOWBIRD An ongoing 1972 Top Secret project that=20 researched, developed and implemented alien spacecraft technology and=20 test flown recovered UFOs. It is possible that the UFO involved in the=20 CASH/LANDRUM CASE was built by the Americans as part of this project,=20 however another "Project Snowbird" has been found described as a "Joint=20 Army/Air Force peacetime military exercise in the sub-arctic region in=20 1955" in the 1963 Gale Research's Code Names Dictionary. Project=20 Snowbird is another project that was only revealed in the PROJECT=20 AQUARIUS Briefing Document. =95TWINKLE A highly secret study into green=20 fireballs seen in New Mexico. By the time an investigator arrived at a=20 scene where fireballs had been observed, they would have disappeared so=20 they couldn't be investigated properly, and Project Twinkle was shut=20 down. It was thought that since the fireballs moved to another location=20 before investigators came onto the scene, the fireballs were controlled=20 by some intelligence.=20 --R-- RADAR-VISUALS See HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. ROSWELL CASE In July 1947 a flying saucer crashed near Corona, New=20 Mexico during a violent night-time thunderstorm. The next morning, Mac=20 Brazel found some wreckage on his ranch spread over about half a mile=20 which neither he nor his family could identify. Three days later he took=20 some wreckage to show to the local sheriff, George Wilcox, who in turn=20 contacted Roswell Air Army Field and told Major Jesse Marcel of the=20 situation. He inspected the wreckage that Mac Brazel had brought with=20 him to the sheriffs office and then reported to his commanding officer,=20 William Blanchard. He ordered Marcel to get someone (Sheridan Cavitt)=20 from counter intelligence to collect as much wreckage from Brazels ranch=20 as they could onto their two vehicles, the wreckage was then collected=20 and flown to Washington, via Fort Worth. The next day, Marcel and Cavitt=20 returned to Brazels ranch to collect more wreckage to take back to=20 Roswell AAF. Cavitt went straight there whereas Marcel stopped on the=20 way to show his family some of the wreckage, in particular, a small=20 piece of tin-foil like material which would bend and be folded quite=20 happily, but would continually fold back out into shape leaving no=20 crease whatsoever. There was also a piece of very light plastic like=20 material, except it wasn't plastic. It was like a wooden dowel and was a=20 couple of inches long. It would bend slightly, but you couldn't scratch,=20 cut, burn or melt it. Meanwhile, Lydia Sleppy at Roswell Radio station=20 KSWS was transmitting a story about the crashed saucer over the teletype=20 when transmission was interrupted by someone claiming to represent the=20 FBI. The Army initially released a story to the press saying that they=20 had captured a flying saucer, but then quickly put out another story=20 saying they hadn't got a saucer, just a weather balloon. It was _not_ a=20 weather balloon. Mac Brazel was placed under house arrest for a week=20 whilst his ranch was combed for more debris, and it was then when the=20 main saucer body was found, complete with four aliens, two dead, one=20 seriously injured and another attending to it which seemed to be=20 unharmed. Mac Brazel was then told that he shouldn't tell anybody about=20 what he had found. He was rumoured to have been bribed with a freezer=20 (very expensive at that time). --S-- S-4 There are three S-4s in the Nevada Test Site (home of AREA 51). One=20 is a nuclear reactor, one is an area just south of the Tonopah test=20 range, and one called Papoose Dry Lake Bed, ten miles south of Area 51.=20 It is the latter area that ROBERT LAZAR claims to have worked in. SAGAN, CARL An American who brought science to the public. He is also a=20 major UFO skeptic believing that no UFO can cross light years of=20 distance due to the large amount of fuel and time needed. This theory=20 assumes that the only method of travel is linear and that the maximum=20 speed of any vehicle must be the speed of light. ROBERT LAZAR has since=20 claimed that an alternative method of travel using gravity waves is what=20 is being used to drive the UFOs. SETI The Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence. This is a US=20 government-funded project that monitors electromagnetic wave emissions=20 from space. These emissions, it is claimed, will be the communications=20 between various UFOs that "leak" out, just like TV pictures from a=20 transmitter are able to be picked up from space (in theory). If they=20 detect any abnormal emissions, they will investigate them further to try=20 and find out where they originate from. UFO researchers are very=20 skeptical of this project, saying it is just a front put up to try and=20 publicly "prove" that UFOs don't exist since they don't expect to find=20 any emissions that cannot be identified. According to an article by Dr.=20 Pierre Guerin in "FLYING SAUCER REVIEW", the government already _knows_=20 that aliens exist and that they are cooperating with them and that they=20 know that the aliens _don't_ use electromagnetic waves at all. It would=20 be similar to trying to detect Indian smoke signals using a radio=20 receiver. The SETI project was given the order to close down by US=20 Congress in October 1993 due to budget cuts. It wasn't a success. SVP RATING See VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: Ndunlks@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 4/4 From: Ndunlks@aol.com [Nick Humphries] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:37:44 -0400 Subject: IUFO: The UFO GUIDE part 4/4 -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List --U-- UFO Abbreviation for "Unidentified Flying Object". The USAF defines a=20 UFO as: Anything that relates to any airborne object which by=20 performance, aerodynamic characteristics, or unusual features does not=20 conform to any presently known aircraft or missile type, or which cannot=20 be identified as a familiar object. (USAF Regulation 200-2) "UFO TIMES" BUFORA journal that contains many recent case reports from=20 Britain and also has a section on European reports from Eurofon News. I=20 recommend the magazine very highly, I would even go as far to say that=20 it is the FLYING SAUCER REVIEW of the 1990s. UFOLOGY The study of the UFO phenomena. --V-- VALLEE, JACQUES French astrophysicist and ufologist who believes that=20 UFOs come from both a physical and psychic origin and that some=20 characters in folklore, like elves, could have originated from aliens.=20 He reshaped the UFO rating system by expanding upon the HYNEK=20 CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM. VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM A system used to categorize the various=20 types of UFO and paranormal experiences invented by Dr Jacques Vallee=20 and is now used more often instead of the HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM since it gives the reader a more detailed summary of a case. The=20 categories are as follows...=20 =95AN RATING Classifies any anomalous behaviour. =95AN1 Anomalies which have= =20 no lasting physical effects. i.e. amorphous lights, unexplained=20 explosions. =95AN2 Anomalies which _do_ have lasting physical effects.=20 i.e. poltergeists, materialized objects, areas of flattened grass, corn=20 circles. =95AN3 Anomalies with associated entities. i.e. ghosts, yetis,=20 spirits, elves and other mythical/legendary entities. =95AN4 Witness=20 interaction with the AN3 entities. i.e. near-death experiences,=20 religious miracles and visions, OBEs (out-of-body experiences). =95AN5=20 Anomalous reports of injuries and deaths. i.e. SHC (spontaneous human=20 combustion), unexplained wounds as well as permanent healing that=20 results from a paranormal experience. =95MA RATING Describes behaviour of=20 a UFO. It is analogous to the Nocturnal Light, Daylight Disk and Radar=20 Visual Hynek classifications. =95MA1 A UFO has been observed which travels= =20 in a discontinuous trajectory. i.e. vertical drops, manoeuvres or loops.=20 =95MA2 MA1 plus any physical effects caused by the UFO. =95MA3 MA1 plus any= =20 entities observed on board. i.e. the airship cases of the late=20 nineteenth century. =95MA4 Manoeuvres accompanied by a sense of reality=20 transformation for the observer. =95MA5 A manoeuvre that results in a=20 permanent injury or death of the witness. =95FB RATING Fly-by rating. =95FB1= =20 A simple sighting of a UFO travelling in a straight line across the sky.=20 =95FB2 FB1 accompanied by physical evidence. =95FB3 A fly-by where entities= =20 are observed on board (rare). =95FB4 A fly-by where the witness=20 experienced a transformation of reality into the object or its=20 occupants. =95FB5 A fly-by which the witness would suffer permanent=20 injuries or even death. i.e. CASH/LANDRUM CASE. =95CE RATING Close=20 Encounter rating. Similar to the Hynek Close Encounter ratings. =95CE1 UFO= =20 comes within 500 feet of the witness, but no after effects are suffered=20 by the witness or the surrounding area. =95CE2 A CE1 that leaves landing=20 traces or injuries to the witness. =95CE3 Entities have been observed on=20 the UFO. =95CE4 The witness has been abducted. =95CE5 CE4 which results in= =20 permanent psychological injuries or death. =95SVP RATING The all-important= =20 credibility rating. "Marks" out of four are given for the three=20 categories of source reliability (first digit), site visit (second=20 digit) and possible explanations (third digit). A rating of 222 or=20 higher indicates the case was reported by a reliable source, the site=20 has been visited and a natural explanation would require a major=20 alteration of at least one parameter. =95SOURCE RELIABILITY RATING =950=20 Unknown or unreliable source. =951 Report attributed to a known source of=20 unknown or uncalibrated reliability. =952 Reliable source, secondhand. =953= =20 Reliable source, firsthand. =954 Firsthand personal interview with the=20 witness by a source of proven reliability. =95SITE VISIT RATING =950 No site= =20 visit, or answer unknown. =951 Site visit by a casual person not familiar=20 with the phenomena. =952 Site visited by persons familiar with the=20 phenomena. =953 Site visit by a reliable investigator with some=20 experience. =954 Site visit by a skilled analyst. =95POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS= =20 RATING =950 Data consistent with one or more natural causes. =951 Natural=20 explanation requires only slight modification of the data. =952 Natural=20 explanation requires major alteration of one parameter. =953 Natural=20 explanation requires major alteration of several parameters. =954 No=20 natural explanation possible, given the evidence.=20 VIMANAS Flying devices are commonplace in many religions, and Hinduism=20 is no exception. According to ancient Sanskrit texts found a few years=20 ago by Westerners in a South Indian temple, Vimanas were open topped=20 flying devices, not strictly UFOs since they were restricted to the=20 Earth's atmosphere. Dr Roberto Pinotti is an Italian scientist, and on=20 the 12th of October 1988 was a speaker in the World Space Conference in=20 Bangalore, India. He referred to several Hindu texts and pointed out=20 that Indian gods and heroes fought in the skies using piloted vehicles=20 armed with weapons. These weapons consisted of seven different types of=20 mirrors and lenses which were used for offensive and defensive purposes.=20 The "Pinjula Mirror" offered a form of "visual shield" preventing the=20 pilots from "evil rays", and the weapon named "Marika" was used to shoot=20 enemy aircraft. Dr Pinotti said that these weapons "do not seem to be=20 too different from what we today call laser technology." The vehicles=20 themselves were made of special heat absorbing metals, called "Somaka,=20 Soundalike and Mourthwika". According to Dr Pinotti, the "principles of=20 propulsion as far as the descriptions were concerned, might be defined=20 as electrical and chemical, but solar energy was involved as well."=20 Other scientists have put forward the theory that the craft were driven=20 by some sort of mercury ion propulsion system. Dr Pinotti concluded that=20 the fact that Vimanas were written about hundreds, perhaps even=20 thousands, of years ago, plus that they resembled modern UFOs would=20 suggest that India had a "...superior but forgotten civilisation. In the=20 light of this, we think it will be better to examine the Hindu texts and=20 subject the descriptive models of Vimanas to more scientific scrutiny."=20 "So where does the ET connection come in?" you're asking me. Well, since=20 the texts were written hundreds or even thousands of years ago, we can=20 safely assume that no human civilization could produce _any_ flying=20 machines, but these Vimanas _did_ exist, along with a mercury ion=20 propulsion system and a form of laser technology, so where could they=20 get the ideas for these devices from? Enter some ET influences and=20 you're away. But that leads us to the question of "where did all this=20 new technology go?" We don't know, but since the texts exist and the=20 properties of the Vimanas have been proved to be possible by scientists,=20 we know that they did exist. --W-- TRAVIS WALTON ABDUCTION CASE In November 1975, a group of six=20 tree-trimmers were driving home from work in a truck in the=20 Sitgreave-Apache National Forest in Arizona, USA. The driver stopped the=20 truck when he noticed that a flying saucer was hovering about fifteen=20 feet above some nearby trees. Travis Walton approached the craft on=20 foot, despite the objections of his workmates. He was then knocked to=20 the ground by a blue and white light. When the men in the truck saw=20 this, they were terrified and sped off down the road leaving him for=20 dead. Once they had calmed down, they returned to that spot and couldn't=20 find any sign of Travis or the flying saucer. Five days later, Travis=20 was returned to earth wondering what had happened to him for the past=20 few days. He found out by undergoing HYPNOTIC REGRESSION, the same=20 technique that was used in the HILL ABDUCTION CASE. This is what the=20 regression revealed: When he came to after being knocked out by the blue=20 and white light, he was lying on his back on a table in what he thought=20 was a hospital. It was _not_ a hospital, a fact that was brought home to=20 him when he focused on three figures standing around him. These were=20 aliens, Travis described them as looking like 5-foot foetuses with=20 mushroom-white skin and they wore tight-fitting, tan-brown robes. On=20 seeing this, Travis got _very_ scared and tried to attack them, but they=20 just backed off into another room, leaving Travis alone, so he started=20 to walk around. He walked into a separate room and saw a large backed=20 chair in the centre of it with a few buttons on one arm of the chair and=20 a lever on the other. He played about with those and the ship responded=20 to some of his actions. A more human-looking alien wearing a helmet then=20 walked in and took him for a guided tour of the ship, ignoring any=20 questions that Travis asked him. They then walked into a hangar=20 containing three other saucers and was met by three other human-like=20 aliens, two men and a woman. Travis was then put onto a table and a mask=20 was put over his face. The next thing he remembered he was waking up on=20 a pavement in a village a few miles away from his home watching the=20 saucer move off silently. --Z-- ZETA RETICULI A binary star system that is roughly 37 light years away=20 from Earth. The aliens that abducted Betty and Barney Hill (see HILL=20 ABDUCTION CASE) were calculated to come from a planet in this system,=20 and ROBERT LAZAR claimed that the nine UFOs he saw in S-4 came from one=20 of the planets in the Zeta Reticuli star system. Sources Sources to Entries ADAMSKI, GEORGE TAOTUFO, p120. AREA 51 AL, pp130-186; RUT:bob.lazar.Z; PARANET. ARNOLD, KENNETH ATS, Chap. 11, Footnote 1. BENNEWITZ, PAUL AL, pp37-38; RUT:ebe.txt.Z. CASH/LANDRUM CASE TAOTUFO, pp153-164; ATS, pp296-298. CATTLE MUTILATIONS AL, pp21-55; AU, pp189-201. COOPER, MILTON WILLIAM PARANET; RUT:bill.cooper.*, /don.allen/bill.cooper.*. DARK SIDE HYPOTHESIS RUT:ebe.txt.Z. DOTY, RICHARD RUT:ebe.txt.Z; AL, pp104-122. ET EXPOSURE LAW RUT:e.t.-law.txt.Z. FOIA RUT:foia.Z. FOO FIGHTERS ATS, pp18-20. GHOST ROCKETS ATS, pp20-24. GULF BREEZE SIGHTINGS "UFOs : The Gulf Breeze Sightings" by Ed and Francis Walters, the book tells the whole story and has all forty-odd photos in colour. You can also download seven of the photos from the phoenix.oulu.fi FTP site, look for the ed* and gbreez* filenames. HILL ABDUCTION CASE TAOTUFO, pp164-176. HYNEK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM RUT:a.a.v.-faq.Z. LAZAR, ROBERT SCOTT AL, pp130-186; PARANET; RUT:bob.lazar.Z. LEAR, JOHN RUT:ebe.txt.Z. MAJESTIC AL, pp150-152. MEN IN BLACK RUT:a.a.v.-faq.Z; men-in-black.Z. MJ-12 RUT:ebe.txt.Z; ATS, pp250-253, briefing document ATS, pp540-547. MOORE, WILLIAM RUT:ebe.txt.Z. OESCHLER, ROBERT AL, pp187-211; BBC interview transcript available from= the author at u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, but I may be able to persuade Charles to upload it to rutgers! PROJECT... AQUARIUS "The MJ-12 Affair: Facts, Questions, Comments", Robert=20 Hastings, "MUFON UFO Journal", No. 254, June 1989; "Just Cause", No.13 September 1987; AL, pp109-110, pp115-116. BLUE BOOK TAOTUFO, pp57-59. GALILEO AL, p182. GRUDGE TAOTUFO, p56. POUNCE AL, p110. SIGMA AL, pp109-111. SIGN TAOTUFO pp55-56. SNOWBIRD AL, pp127-128. TWINKLE TAOTUFO, pp57-58. ROSWELL CASE ATS, pp246-250; AL, pp83-92; RUT:roswell-crash.txt.Z;= TAOTUFO, pp48-51. S-4 RUT:bob.lazar.Z. SETI "The Gigantic 'Con'", Gordon Creighton, "Flying Saucer Review", Vol. 37, No. 4, p4; "SETI : A Manipulation?", Pierre Guerin, "Flying Saucer Review", Vol. 38, No. 1, pp17-20. TRAVIS WALTON ABDUCTION CASE AL, pp68-71. VALLEE CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM RUT:micap-vallee-ufo-classification-system.Z. VIMANAS "The Hindu" (Bangalore), 12th October 1988; PARANET BBS:101288IA.UFO. Key --- ATS - "Above Top Secret", Timothy Good, 1989 paperback edition, published by Grafton, ISBN 0-586-20361-3. AL - "Alien Liaison", Timothy Good, 1992 paperback edition, published by Arrow Books Ltd., ISBN 0-09-985920-3. AU - "Alien Update", edited by Timothy Good, 1993 paperback edition, published by Arrow Books Ltd., ISBN 0-09-925761-0. TAOTUFO - "The Age Of The UFO", edited by Peter Brookesmith, 1992 hardback edition, published by Orbis Publishing Ltd., ISBN 0-7481-0311-2. RUT - ftp.rutgers.edu FTP site in the /pub/ufo directory. PARANET - Paranet archives. APPENDIX I The information in this Guide was collected from the following sources: Paranet Archives; ** "The Age of the UFO" edited by Peter Brookesmith;=20 Usenet archives; ** "Above Top Secret", "Alien Liaison" by Timothy Good;=20 ** "The UFO Report 1991", ** "The UFO Report 1992", "Alien Update"=20 edited by Timothy Good; "The Worlds Greatest UFO Mysteries" by Roger=20 Boar & Nigel Blundell; "UFOs in the 1980's" by Jerry Clark. ** "UFO: The=20 Gulf Breeze Sightings" by Ed & Frances Walters. I highly recommend that you read the starred books, especially "Above=20 Top Secret" and "UFOs : The Gulf Breeze Sightings", "ATS" because of=20 it's thorough investigation into the worldwide UFO cover-up and it's use=20 of documents released under the US Freedom of Information act, and "UFOS=20 : TGBS" because it is a very believable first-hand account of Ed and=20 Frances Walters' close encounters of 1987/8 and it also includes all 40=20 photos that they had taken during that period. For more information: FTP to the following sites and you'll be able to download more=20 information and various pictures. Be warned : There is a lot of rubbish=20 on these sites as well as some reliable stuff, you'll just have to sort=20 the chaff from the wheat. phoenix.oulu.fi: /pub/ufo_and_space_pics This site contains seven of the 40 Gulf Breeze photos which are well=20 worth looking at. ftp.rutgers.edu: /pub/ufo Famous for its large archive of Paranet articles and a collection of=20 photos taken on the boundary of Area 51. wiretap.spies.com: /Library/Fringe/Ufo Miscellaneous stuff. There are also a few UFO related newsgroups on Usenet, they are=20 alt.alien.visitors and the alt.paranet.* groups. The above warning also=20 applies to these newsgroups, but Paranet is usually a very reliable=20 source for information. Nick Humphries, December 1993. APPENDIX II What to do if you see a UFO. 1. Scream. Honestly! This will attract the people around you who will=20 wonder what you're screaming about. You then point out the UFO to them=20 and you instantly gain a few back-up witnesses to the sighting.=20 Sightings which have only one witness carries very little weight, but=20 one reported by two independent witnesses adds a lot of credibility to a=20 UFO sighting. 2. If you have a camera, try and take a few pictures. The best photos of=20 UFOs have background and foreground details in the shot, try not to just=20 photograph it in the sky. This enables the investigator to give a better=20 estimate of the size of the UFO. 3. Write down what you saw as soon as possible. Draw a sketch of it and=20 show where any lights were positioned on the craft. Also describe the=20 path it flew. 4. If the UFO landed on the ground or even just scraped it for a=20 seconds, try and stop anybody from getting near the area. If you have a=20 camera, photograph the area. 5. REPORT the sighting AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This allows the UFO=20 investigator to interview the witnesses whilst the memory of the event=20 is still fresh.=20 If the sighting was in the UK, write to the BUFORA Director Of=20 investigations at : B.M. BUFORA, London, WC1N 3XX. If you live in the US, you can contact CUFOS at :=20 The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, 2457 W. Peterson Avenue, Chicago, IL 60659 or call (312) 271-3611. Or you can contact MUFON at : Mutual UFO Network, Inc., 103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin, Texas 78155-4099 or call (512) 379-9216. For a full list of UFO organisations, download a.a.v.-faq.Z from=20 ftp.rutgers.edu. Last Word the First OK, you've read the Guide, now what? Read other books, do a little=20 research of your own. There's a lot of books on UFOs with quite=20 different views as to what UFOs are and why aliens are here. Read up on=20 these ideas and hypotheses and decide for yourself which one is the most=20 appropriate or realistic. I deliberately missed out the various=20 hypotheses from the Guide, I believe that the reader ought to decide for=20 his/herself what is really going on. There are also so many different=20 hypotheses that I don't think that I would do them any justice.=20 Personally, I believe in the extra-terrestrial hypothesis as to the=20 origin of aliens, mainly because that is the most understandable and=20 what I think is the most realistic scenario there is at this time. One more thing : If any of the stories that you read in this Guide or in=20 any other book disturbs you, read or watch some comedy science-fiction.=20 I recommend Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy" trilogy=20 and "Red Dwarf". They put things into perspective a little and help you=20 see the lighter side of them! Nick Humphries, December 1993.=20 Last Word the Second Many thanks for all the feedback from the First Edition of the Guide.=20 Unfortunately I missed a few messages because my site went down for=20 three days a couple of hours after I uploaded it, hopefully that won't=20 happen again since that's the way conspiracy theories get created! Now=20 to contradict what I said in the First Last Word. In the next edition I=20 want to include the various hypotheses about where UFOs come from. I'm=20 not talking about conspiracy theories, I think I've covered that=20 properly already, theories like the Interdimensional Hypothesis, the=20 Ultradimensional Hypothesis too, and the Hollow Earth Theory will also=20 get a look in. If anyone wants to send me any details about any=20 hypothesis via E-Mail, please do! If you think this edition of The UFO=20 Guide is good, the next one will be even better! Nick Humphries,=20 February 1994.=20 Legal Stuff This UFO Guide is copyright of Nick Humphries 1994 and no part of it=20 will be republished in whole or in part without the consent of the=20 author unless it is done so for review purposes only. So there. Feel=20 free to upload it in full to any bulletin boards or FTP sites without=20 charging a fee of more than duplication costs. Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: Ndunlks@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons From: UFOElite@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 20:24:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:29:41 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons in a message dated13:39:09 -0400 (EDT) you wrote > Bill, >Thank you for the information about the NASA balloon. It basically went >far to illustrating my point. >If you would read MY post again, you would notice that my contention is >exactly what your report indicates. Crashed balloons do NOT gouge the >earth nor do they scatter debris over a wide area. >My post asked this question and I'll put it more succinctly. >Can anyone explain to me how a crashed balloon could POSSIBLY gouge the >earth and leave debris over a LARGE area? >Dave (Furry) Furlotte I agree with Dave, But also has any one figured out what a balloon was during up during a thunderstorm? Monitiring radiation in russia while flying over new mexico. Would n't the storm mess up the monitering equiptment? General Administrator Brian Lynn Bentley.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: Cats, Toast, & UFOs From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:49:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 20:24:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Cats, Toast, & UFOs >Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:05:26 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Cats, Toast, & UFOs >The following was found by my wife in one of her favorite >newsgroups. They may be onto something here ... >>Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.community >>Subject: Fwd: THE CAT/TOAST UFO CONNECTION >>From: Terry_Hagedorn@wnpb.wvnet.edu >>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:56:58 -0400 >> CATS, TOAST, AND UFO'S >>Question: If when you drop a buttered piece of bread, it drops >>butter side down and a cat always lands on its feet. What would >>happen if you took a piece of buttered bread, strapped it on the >>back of a cat (butter side up) and dropped it? >>Answer: Even if you are too lazy to do the experiment yourself >>you should be able to deduce the obvious result. The laws of >>butterology demand that the butter must hit the ground, and the >>equally strict laws of feline aerodynamics demand that the cat >>can not smash it's furry back. > >>If the combined construct were to land, nature would have no way >>to resolve this paradox. Therefore it simply does not fall. ============================================================= Hi Errol, hi All, All I want to know is, "How many buttered cats does it take to lift a six foot tall, 195 lb. man and a small homemade UFO?" This could result in a whole new classification system for UFO's! "Well, it was a 'forty cat' sized scout craft,..." <G> Loved the post, I cohabitate with five of these critters so I already have the foundation for a formidable propulsion system! <G> See you guys 'out there'... John Velez :) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** * Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | brianc |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 01 Jun 97 07:06:10 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:01:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases >Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:36 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases Linda wrote; >its sounds as credible as a case can be. The >evidence seems to be overwhelming, as is the evidence for a >cover-up. > [....] >Although some debunkers are paid for by the U.S. >Air Force, there are more of us, than there are of them. How many is _some_, Linda? How much is a debunker paid? Who are they, and how do they command respect from a field that is known for intimating that intelligence is in league with/covering up alien presence? >You're right though, about Kent going public with his sudden >change of heart, at this time. He could wait if he wanted to. And wait for the landslide to pass him by? Why _should_ someone not have the ability to change their mind about something when they feel like it? >Who cares about those who will argue that you're jumping the >gun? That should perhaps be in the third person, as Ed seems to prefer writing that way. >In fact, they added some >credibility to my case. No one puts that much time in debunking >any case, unless there's a lot of truth to it. I wouldn't bet on it. Dissenting views tend to get edited out of the general scheme of things in a miasma of back-patting and promotional tours. Some just don't give a fig. The strange argument you've used tends to suggest that anything scrutinised must be true, devil take the evidence. I'm awfully glad that they let that OJ person go free. And Redux _must_ be OK for use, as they're trying so hard to withdraw it. I take it that all the nonsense about unloading a gun before cleaning it is a diabolical plot to cover something up? >Cases like mine, >Roswell and other cases are scary to debunkers because they're >true. Scary? Amusing. Mainly for the criterion of what is considered 'truth'. >If a person is capable of learning, but refuses to open >his mind, then he's a self-made MORON. Why should we care what >MORONS say? I like the capitalisation. Nice touch. However, you did make this a tad gender-specific, which means you had someone in mind. Did you? >When I began to >understand the power, in the strength debunkers gave to me, I >used it. Extremely true. If people hadn't bothered about your case, then it would have faded out of view. I think that maybe you ought to be slightly thankful for all the attention. >But when I speak, >I speak for all abductees. >When the debunking >starts, thats when you know you have a real credible and >truthful case. Until they find the wire supporting the 'UFO', eh? >After all, it takes a Bobby Fisher to hoax a case >like mine and 99% of us don't have a Bobby Fisher mentality. You do know that Bobby Fisher went mildly bonkers, don't you? >Let's face it, if a UFO landed on >the White House lawn and an alien knocked on the door, the de- >bunkers would find a way to explain it away, no matter what. For one, this hasn't happened, and remains the best thing anyone in the field can hope for. I personally would be gratified if it did happen, because this is why I entered the field to find a sideshow of Barnumesque proportions ruling the roost, where the best story gets the attention, rather than concentrating on things that are _real_, _falsifiable_ and well-reported. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Visit this site From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 13:32:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:02:05 -0400 Subject: Visit this site Hi all, You might want to visit these pages by Michael Bara : - Response to NASA's James Oberg's analysis of STS-48 video http://sd02.znet.com/jambara/rebuttal.htm - Where is the informed criticism of Hoagland? http://sd02.znet.com/jambara/whereis.htm or enter from the front page at : http://sd02.znet.com/jambara/ Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Analytical Equipment? From: tHrec <threc@li.net> [Dustin Darcy] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:41:39 -0400 Subject: Analytical Equipment? I'm sorry this question may seem rather dumb to some of you, but it's been bothering me. First off, I love video cameras just the same as anyone else, and they serve their purpose well, but isn't their any technology that could provide something along the lines of thermal readings,etc? I mean there's only so much one can do with a still. Yah I could import it into adobe photoshop and do an emboss, find edges.. try to increase the luminosity of the picture, etc but that isn't going to do a whole lot for me. There's got to be a way to get more information on what people are seeing. Video, and photography is really only useful in proving that something is up there. I think it would also be interesting if someone was scanning through the different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. There are some basic devices to scan through mobile, narrowband, broadband, and cellular. Possibly there could be some type of distortion given off by the object. I can't infer what type of results that these studies would bring, but it certainly would be more than what's currently known. Any further information about such studies that currently exist would be very interesting to me, and I'd appreciate any details.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Gov't e-mailing From: drjackryan@juno.com (John P Ryan) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 12:03:42 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:43:41 -0400 Subject: Gov't e-mailing These are some helpful government e-mails, feel free to contact your U.S. Representative with the Congress e-mail or the President, etc............ Sincerely, Jack ----------------------------- PUBLICATIONS@WHITEHOUSE.GOV (W.H. PRESS RELEASES) PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV (US PRESIDENT) FIRSTLADY@WHITEHOUSE.GOV (US FIRST LADY) VICE.PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV (US VICE PRESIDENT) CONGRESS@HR.HOUSE.GOV (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) USAUN@UNDP.ORG (UN AMBASSADOR FOR USA) NASANEWS@LUNA.OSF.HQ.NASA.GOV (NASA) ----------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: drjackryan | publications | president | firstlady | vice.president | congress |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES AVAILABLE *** [Part 2] From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:57:23 -0400 Subject: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES AVAILABLE *** [Part 2] I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any errors, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 (51 - 100) INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 051 10/23/61 Memo from Air Chief Campbell to Parlimentary Returns Regarding how to answer questions about UFOs. 052 10/18/61 Memo from Parlimentary Returns, Dwyer to Chief Air Staff Regarding letter asking about UFOs. 053 08/16/61 Chief Air Staff, Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, PQ regarding UFOs 054 08/15/61 Chief Air Staff, Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, PQ regarding UFOs 055 08/09/61 Temporary Docket, DAI 056 08/08/61 Wing Commander Lambert to Humbolt, Sask. re: requested UFO info. 057 03/16/61 Chief Air Staff, Haldman to St. Hubert, PQ re: UFO report 058 03/08/61 Shawinigan, Que to National Defence re: UFO report 02/28/61 059 02/15/61 Chief Air Staff, Haldman to St. Hubert, PQ re: UFO report 060 01/17/61 Wing Commander, Lambert to Commanding Officer RCAF Re: NICAP, Kaasen letters dated 04/22/60, 10/23/60 & 01/02/61 061 11/17/60 Temporary Docket, DAI 062 11/30/60 Chief Air Staff, Francis to St. Hubert PQ re: UFO report UFO REPORT, COLLINGWOOD, ONTARIO, 11/13/60: 063 11/17/60 AOC/ATC Doherty to Department National Defence, Chief Air Staff Re: UFO report in Collingwood, Ontario 11/13/60 064 11/13/60 From Collingwood, Ontario to RCAF Peterborough, Ontario Re: UFO report in Collingwood of 11/13/60 KEN KAASEN (NICAP) LETTER OF INQUIRY: 065 11/18/60 Chief Air Staff Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, PQ Re: JANAP 146(d), UFO information request 066 10/23/60 NICAP Kaasen to RCAF re: UFO secrecy AFL200-2 & JANAP-146D 067 10/23/60 (Outside Envelope for the Above) DODDS LETTER OF INQUIRY: 068 10/12/60 Temporary Docket to Air Force 069 10/06/60 Department National Defence Minute Sheet (DAFS) Re: Letter regarding UFOs inquiries refered for clearence 070 10/11/60 Flying Officer Kennedy, Chief Air Staff to Dodds, Toronto Re: RCAF policy on reporting UFOs, letter of 09/08/60 071 09/28/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet, DAFS Re: Letter on UFOs forwarded for security clearence 072 09/22/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet Re: News Services to check with DAFS before replying to UFO inquiries. 073 09/20/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet, Kennedy to Directorate Air Intelligence, request for UFO information 074 09/08/60 Letter from Dodds in Toronto to RCAF reguarding UFO secrecy. KEN KAASEN (NICAP) LETTER OF INQUIRY: 075 06/23/60 RCAF Group Captain Dilworth Cheif Air Staff to RCAF station, Trenton, Ontario re: UFO reports to be passed to AOC/ADC as per JANAP-146(D), CIRVIS/MERINT inquiry of Kaasen (NICAP) 076 06/23/60 RCAF Group Captain Dilworth Chief Air Staff to Kaasen (NICAP) Re: letter 04/21/60 about UFO secrecy & JANAP 146(D) 077 05/13/60 GA Wooley S/L AOC/ATC to Air Force Headquarters Re: Kaasen (NICAP) letter about UFOs over Alberta 078 04/15/60 Letter from Kaasen (NICAP) to RCAF, Edmonton, Alberta Requesting information on UFOs over Alberta, JANAP 146(D) 079 04/15/60 (Page Two of the Above) 080 (NoDate) Keyhoe info sheet about NICAP, also Mars & Venus Alien Bases 081 (NoDate) (Page Two of the Above) 082 02/14/60 From Kaasen (NICAP) to Chief Air Staff, Cartier Square, Ottawa Re: request for UFO information 083 10/07/59 Release Sheet, Re: report on UFOs from NICAP 08/09/59 084 08/09/59 Temporary Docket, Air Force, DA-13-2 /07/21/59 085 (NoDate) Department Air Intelligence, Minute Sheet, UFO report to ADC HQ 086 06/08/59 From Wilbert Smith, Department of Transportation Re: Montreal UFO 06/05/59 info release to Carr 087 06/08/59 Department Air Intelligence to WB Smith Re: release of Montreal UFO info to Carr 088 06/04/59 Air Force Temporary Docket, Department Air Intelligence A-13-3 UFO REPORT, RED RIVER, WINNIPEG, MANITOBA, 05/13/59 089 06/05/59 Letter to Department National Defence, RCAF Re: correction to UFO report over Red River, East Kildoman 090 06/05/59 (Page Two of the Above) 091 06/05/59 (Page Three of the Above) UFO REPORT, MATLOCK, MANITOBA, 05/15/59 092 05/15/59 Air Force Temporary Docket, DAI-13-3 093 05/15/59 Letter from Matlock, Manitoa to Deputy Minister, Dept. Nat. Defence Re: UFO over Red River, Winnipeg 094 05/15/59 (Page Two of the Above) 095 05/15/59 (Envelope for the Above) 096 06/05/59 Department Air Defence, Squadron Leader, Marshal to W. B. Smith Re: forwarding UFO reports to Smith at Department of Transport 097 06/01/59 Chief Air Staff, Squadron Leader, Lovelace to Thackik of Matlock, Manitoba re: Letter 05/15/59, UFO over East Kildonan UFO CRASH, PRINCE GEORGE, PD, 04/29/59 098 05/06/59 Air Force, Temporary Docket, DAI-A13-3, DAI-A12-4-2 099 05/06/59 Air Defence Command, Squadron Leader, Wood to Air Force HQ Ottawa Re: UFO crash 05/01/59 CANAIRVAN, Directorate Air Intelligence 100 04/30/59 Telex: CANAIRVAN UFO explosion/crash, Prince George, PD 04/29/59 -------------------- Index to be Continued ------------------------------- .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 *** REAL X-FILES (CANADA) AVAILABLE *** From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:54:28 -0400 Subject: *** REAL X-FILES (CANADA) AVAILABLE *** I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any errors, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 003 06/29/62 Letter from Superintendent of Criminal Investigations, Goldsmith to Chief of Air Staff, RCAF regarding report of Fire Ball UFO in Alberta. 004 06/19/62 Letter from Group Captain, Air Staff, Dilworth to Air Defence Command regarding reporting UFOs. 005 06/19/62 Letter from Group Captain, Air Staff, Dilworth to Security Division of RCMP, Kelly regarding reporting UFOs. 006 04/25/61 Department of National Defence, Minute Sheet regarding forwarding UFO reports to Air Defence Command. 007 05/01/61 Directorate, Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks, Minute Sheet regarding UFO sighting. UFO, COPPERMINE, NWT, 03/18/61: 008 03/23/61 Letter from RCMP to Department of National Defence Regarding UFO Report of Coppermine, NWT, March 18, 1961 009 03/23/61 RCMP Report of UFO at Coppermine, NWT, March 18, 1961 010 (BLANK?) UNIDENTIFIED OBJECTS, SHELBURNE, NS, 03/30/58: 011 06/03/58 Air Staff to RCMP Regarding Foil & Plastic found, NS 012 05/27/58 Letter from Goldsmith, Criminal Investigations to Air Force Security Regarding unidentified foil reported in Shelburne 013 05/05/58 Letter from Regan, Sup. of Criminal Investigations to Commissioner Regarding unidentified foil & plastic, Shelburne, NS 014 04/28/58 Letter from Regan, Sup. of Criminal Investigations to RCAF Regarding unidentified foil & plastic, Shelburne, NS 015 04/21/58 RCMP Report of Unidentified Objects Found in Shelburne, NS on March 30, 1958 in tree tops. Also large 10 foot sheet of plastic descended from sky. THE BRITISH CANBERRA 05/07/58: 016 05/07/52 Notice from Strategic Air Command to RCAF that overflight by British Canberra postponed indefinitely. 017 05/07/52 Secret notice from Strategic Air Command to RCAF of overflight by British Canberra on May 7, 1958. UFO, WEST BATHURST, NB, 08/10/62: 018 08/15/62 Letter from Defayette, Moncton to RCAF regarding Fireball over West Bathurst, NB on August 10, 1962. 019 08/10/62 RCMP Telex regarding fireball UFO and possible crash viewed by several witnesses in West Bathurst, NB, August 10, 1962. UFO, SHELBURNE, NB, 09/19/62: 020 09/20/62 Letter from RCAF to Burke-Gaffney at St. Mary's University Halifax, NS regarding UFO report on September 19, 1962 over Shelburne, NB UFO, TEEPEE CREEK, ALBERTA, 05/09/62: 021 06/12/62 Letter from Supt. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to RCAF regarding UFO that landed in Teepee Creek, Alberta on May 9, 1962 022 06/12/62 Letter from Supt. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to Prof. Folinsbee, University of Alberta regarding UFO landing Teepee Creek, Alberta May 9, 1962 023 06/14/62 Letter from Supt. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to Prof. Folinsbee, Univesrity if Alberta regarding co-operation with Armed Services in reporting UFOs 024 05/03/62 Letter from Scientific Adviser, Chief of Air Staff, Arnell to Commissioner, RCMP, Cooper regarding reporting of UFOs. 025 07/06/62 Letter from Group Captian, Chief of Air Staff, Dilworth to Security & Intelligence, RCMP regarding reporting of UFOs UFO, ALEXS CREEK, BC, 11/02/62 026 11/04/62 Telex from Kamloops, BC to Vancouver CANAIRHED regarding RCMP investigation of UFO crash in Alexs Creek on November 2 027 11/03/62 Telex UFO Report from Kamloops, BC to Vancouver CANAIRHED Cylindrical UFO crash in Alexs Creek area on November 2 028 10/01/62 Message form regarding geological survey interest in retrieving crashed fireball UFOs. UFO, HALIFAX, NS: 029 10/01/62 Telex from Halifax to Greenland regarding UFO Report 030 09/30/62 Telex from Canada Air Atlantic to Torbay regarding Halifax assuming investigation of UFO report. 031 09/30/62 Telex from Torbay to Canada Air Atlantic regarding UFO report. UFO CRASH RETRIEVAL, TEMISKANING, QUEBEC, 05/11/62: 032 05/15/62 Telex from North Bay to Canadian Air Defence regarding crashed UFO dragged off ice in Temiskaning, PQ on May 11, 1962. 033 05/15/62 Telex from North Bay to Can. Air Defence regarding crashed UFO in Temiskaning, PQ on May 11, 1962 and that a helicopter will be need to retrieve UFO. 034 04/30/62 Letter from Supt. Cooper, Criminal Investigations to Scientific Adviser (RCMP) Arnell regarding reporting UFOs. 035 03/10/62 RCAF requests assistance in collecting fireball UFO and meteor reports. Includes list of 8 scientists involved. 036 03/10/62 (Page two of the above) KEN KANSEN'S (NICAP) LETTERS OF INQUIRY: 037 04/17/62 Memo from Air Marshal Campbell Chief Air Staff to Minister Staff Officer regarding letter from Mr. Kansen. 038 04/??/62 Letter from Minister of National Defence, Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding letter dated March 30, 1962 on UFOs. AFR 200-2 and UFO secrecy. 039 04/??/62 Department of National Defence regarding preparing a reply. 040 04/11/62 Memo from Wing Commander Muncy regarding a reply to Kansen's letter and discusses UFO secrecy. 041 03/27/62 Memo from Air Marshal Campbell re: reply to Kansen's letter. 042 (NoDate) Letter from Minister National Defence, Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding UFO secrecy 043 06/23/62 Letter from Group Captain RCAF Dilworth to Kansen regarding UFO secrecy & JANAP 146. 044 04/21/62 Letter from NICAP Investigator Ken Kansen to Commanding Officer, RCAF regarding UFO secrecy, JANAP 146D 045 04/21/62 (Page two of the above) 046 03/27/62 Letter from Wing Commander Muncy to Minister of National Defence regarding Ken Kansen's letter. 047 03/12/62 Letter from Ken Kansen to Minister of National Defence Doug Harkness regarding contradictions regarding UFO secrecy policies. 048 03/??/62 Letter from Minister of National Defence Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator Ken Kansen regarding UFO reports. 049 03/04/62 Letter to Minister of National Defence, Doug Harkness from NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding UFOs. 050 03/04/62 (Part two of the above) -------------------- Index to be Continued ------------------------------- .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:59:23 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair >From: KAnder6444@aol.com >Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:43:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Dear Ed >Dear Ed Komarek, >In response to your message about MUFON: >>My problem in all this is the way Stacy and MUFON react >>to criticism founded or unfounded. Let's see if others come >>forward with their personal experiences about MUFON Hq. >OK I've decided to step forward, yet again. The only email that >has rattled my cage here (not necessarily from you actually -- >I've enjoyed your posts) are the ones that attack MUFON as a >whole. I cannot speak for the entire country but I can speak as >a >State Section Director in a large city such as Seattle. >Contrary to >what some people might believe, we don't have Sequin Texas >breathing >down our neck every second asking who we talk to, what did >they >say, what did they see, send the report asap! It just doesn't >operate that way. Walt Andrus created an organization >to help in the research and reporting of UFO's. Most people >join >MUFON to attend meetings where they can meet and talk to >others >about this phenomenon, get the latest news, and hear >interesting >speakers. We'd be thrilled if more people volunteered to be >investigators >but unfortunately most just join our chapter for a >entertainment each month! >Sorry to disillusion some, I am not here pumping out >sightings and >abduction reports each night to send to the "big cheese"! Kathleen: Your points are well taken and I agree. The area that many MUFON members have a problem with is that they often feel that they are doing all the work and then send all these reports to MUFON HQ where they seem to disappear into a black hole. The files are accessible to those at the top of the chain of command but there should be a strong effort to make the information public minus the confidential information. I complement Eastern MUFON Director George Flier for releasing MUFON reports onto the internet. I would hope other MUFON directors could follow suit and perhaps get all MUFON reports onto the internet and accessible to the public together in one spot. >Granted any one of us can find fault in any organization, >whether it be >the Shiners (I've got a couple of gripes about them actually), >the Masons, >or for that matter the American Red Cross! I joined MUFON to >be able >to balance my curiosity and sanity of what might be going on. >Speaking for myself, I am happiest in a room full of people >who share >the same interest -- UFO's. I like sitting in a group and >pondering the >possibilities of the universe around us. I can only hope that >those who are >reading will see the complete picture and understand that >the >"possible" opinion of any one individual should never reflect >or detract the >many >good things that MUFON represents. >Just my opinion......... >Kathleen Andersen >MUFON State Section Director - Seattle I very much agree. I am glad you are making these posts to give some balance. MUFON is a good organization but it could be much better if more valid internal criticism were allowed. The MUFON Journal is the heart of the organization because through it the membership is informed. Unfortunately letters to the editor and articles that criticize MUFON, its policies, its leadership etc. rarely if ever get published by Dennis Stacy. I think that at least a page or two in the Journal should be allotted to internal dialogue where problems and potential problems can be discussed and dealt with in the open. I think MUFON should have high standards and if these standards are violated no matter by who on the local or national level these individuals should be censored and if necessary removed. For instance there need to be formal mechanisms to weed out any investigators that attempt to harass or intimidate any witness for any reason. There should be formal means by which a problem person can be indentified quickly and removed from their position in MUFON if the standards are violated. MUFONs present leadership position seems to be shoot the messenger of bad tidings. Draw the wagons into a circle and hunker down in defense. This is not a constructive way to deal with criticism. It should not be years before a incident is investigated as in this B & B matter and then only after a battle on the internet. Stacy could have gotten in touch with Billy just as I did and gotten the name and number of the primary witness and then conducted a interview before he unloaded on me. I certainly hope he does not treat this witness as he has treated me. I don't know what the present situation is but in my opinion this Waco section director could still be doing a lot of damage. Lord knows the abductess have enough problems as it is. My question is why let situations like this go uninvestigated and unresolved? If we are to have a strong effective organization these internal problems must be exposed and dealt with quickly unless they do great harm to the whole organization. I think all members of MUFON should have available to them a copy of the bylaws. State directors should be elected by the state membership and the state section directors appointed by the state director. The only exception would be when MUFON's high standards were violated and could not be corrected on the local level. MUFON's membership has essentially stagnated over the years while the interest in UFOs has steadily increased. Why? MUFON should have at least 20 to 30 thousand members by now. Just my opinion too, and thanks for the constructive dialogue. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 1 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:49:54 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 22 June 1, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor SAUCER LANDS SOUTH OF BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA A week-long UFO flap in Bloomington, Indiana (population 51,646) culminated in a saucer landing the night of Sunday, May 18, 1997. Just after 11 p.m., local ufologist John Tosti and two co-workers "were witness to a UFO hovering over an area behind the plant...He then drove to Snoddy Road on the southeast side of Bloomington and pulled over to the (road's) shoulder. It was 12:15 a.m. (Monday, May 19, 1997) when, one by one, eight UFOs 'blinked on.' John decided to elicit a response from one of these by flashing his headlights from bright to dim, on and off. Two ships began to approach his position. Not a sound could be heard as the craft moved in. The car's electrical system went dead as the object hovered overhead." Tosti was able to "make out a disc-shaped metallic surface, with a round, smaller-section dome, and an even smaller but dome-shaped object at the very top. Emanating from the whole underneath of the object was a blue glow, which was so intense that it illuminated the roadway below. A shimmering, sparkling effect 'like shiny silver particles' could be seen in the air between the bottom of the ship and the ground. All the while, a bright white strobe light at the very top was flashing rapidly. Around the middle of section of craft was a row of square windows" showing a "'yellow to amber' ambient light within." "With the craft now tilted slightly, John could see through some of the windows the silhouettes of several individuals with disproportionately large heads." Tosti reportedly attempted to communicate with the occupants by waving his arms, but they gave no sign of having noticed him. After deploying "two smaller illuminated spherical objects, one red, the other blue, which were 'doing figure eights'...some of the occupants stepped away from the windows, and the ship levelled itself and flew off into the sky." Three days earlier, on Thursday, May 15, 1997, at around 11 p.m., John Tosti and fellow ufologist Lynn Taylor drove to the Morgan-Monroe State Forest, located 15 miles (24 kilometers) northeast of Bloomington to do some skywatching. "Across a field, situated on top of a ridge, was a bright yellow object. For a moment, it remained motionless above an outcrop of trees, before it rose straight up and moved out of the area." The previous night, Wednesday, May 14, Lynn Taylor and his wife, Linda, "were returning home from town when we caught sight of another amber glowing object rising in a northerly direction between new and old Highway 37 West." The flap began on Saturday, May 10, 1997, at 11:40 p.m., when ufologist Jim Bailey phoned Taylor and reportedly said, "Sorry for calling you so late, Lynn. We're standing outside watching three UFOs, and they're heading right towards you." Pulling on his clothes, Taylor ran downstairs and out the back door. "There it was. I could see it through the trees as it tried to sneak by undetected. I was staring at the most brilliant UFO I've ever seen. It flickered and shimmered like a road flare. Most (UFOs) that I've witnessed have been yellow or amber in color, but this one was red/orange--actually more red than orange. It was a half-mile distant and moving at a leisurely pace." (See the detailed report "Recent UFO Sightings in Bloomington, Indiana," copyright 1997 by Lynn Taylor, all rights reserved. Many thanks to Lynn Taylor for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from the report.) GLOWING BLUE UFO SEEN IN NORTHERN PORTUGAL On Friday, May 23, 1997, at 10 p.m., a glowing blue UFO was seen by twenty people in the village of Quintas, just outside the city of Mirabela in northern Portugal. Mirabela is located in the Tras-os-Montes, about 360 kilometers (225 miles) north of Lisbon and 35 kilometers (18 miles) west of the Spanish border. According to a local newspaper, "about twenty people say they've seen something huge, which they consider to be a UFO...in the beginning (it) had a round shape and (then) began to 'blossom like a marigold.'" "It wasn't steady," said one witness. "It got closer, then went away around a hill, disappearing behind the hill, then appearing again." "The locals say they were not frightened, actually describing the phenomenon as 'wonderful,' similar to 'a strong blue flash but one which did not illuminate.' According to the witnesses, the phenomenon was seen from several places in the village 'at a height of 60 to 70 meters (178 to 231 feet) and (had) a diameter of about 20 meters (67 feet)." "The elderly explained the phenomenon from a religious viewpoint, comparing 'the light in the sky to the ceiling of a church.' Others called it 'a sign of the Lord.' Francisco Azevedo, 82 years old, claimed that he had 'never seen anything like it.'" (See the local newspaper for Coimbra, Portugal for May 23, 1997. Muito obrigado a Bruno Miguel Lopes e Luis Ribeiro para eso caso.) UFOs SIGHTED IN AND NEAR SEDONA, ARIZONA On Sunday, May 25, 1997, at 8:10 p.m., a woman and two friends videotaped "a pulsating round light" in the sky about eight miles (13 kilometers) northwest of Sedona, Arizona (population 6,500). Sedona is located 105 miles (168 kilometers) north of Phoenix. The woman, Ms. J.J.P., lives in Oak Creek. a village just north of Sedona. She videotaped the UFO over the rooftop of the house across the street. She said the UFO's diameter "was approximately half the width of the stack on top of the neighbor's chimney...Through binoculars, it looked like a flat oval. It was blue on top, yellow in the middle, and red on the bottom." Two other people in Sedona reported seeing the UFO hovering over Coffee Pot Mountain. At 8:46 p.m., another report came in from Oak Creek Canyon. The witness reported, "It has different colored lights on it--blue, red, yellow. It is hovering and spinning." The UFO also reportedly emitted "beams of light" aimed at the ground. (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this report. For more on Arizona, see the next story.) FEMALE USAF PILOT KILLED IN ARIZONA A-10 CRASH On Tuesday night, May 27, 1997, at about 9:30 p.m., a U.S. Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II fighter- bomber crashed in southwestern Arizona. The cause of the mishap is presently unknown. Killed in the crash was Capt. Amy Lynn Svoboda, 29, of the 355th Fighter Wing, based at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, near Tucson, Arizona. According to USA Today for May 29, 1997, Capt. Svoboda "graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1989. She trained other pilots at Reese Air Force Base in Lubbock, Texas before moving to Arizona for A-10 training. She had more than 1,400 hours flying jets." "Svoboda is the second pilot from Davis-Monthan to die in two months. Capt. Craig D. Button, 32, left the training area April 2 and flew 800 miles off course before crashing in the Colorado mountains near Vail." The human remains found in the crashed A-10 were positively identified on April 28 as those of Capt. Button. (See USA TODAY for April 29, 1997) He was laid to rest in a private ceremony on May 2 and buried on Long Island at a military cemetery in Farmingdale, N.Y. (See New York Post for May 3, 1997, page 4) The crash was the fifth of an A-10 in nine months. Sgt. Rita Clawson, spokesperson for the 355th Wing, told USA TODAY that "the spate of crashes is 'definitely unusual.'" (See USA TODAY for May 29, 1997, page 3A) Capt. Svoboda's A-10 was loaded with live rockets and GP (General Purpose) 82 bombs. "'Since the first time she expressed her desire to fly for the Air Force, we have been excited for her and proud of her accomplishments,' her parents, James and Sharon Svoboda, said in a statement, 'She was a beautiful girl who loved life and flying and was very proud to serve her country as one of the Air Force's first women fighter pilots.'" (Editor's Comment: The night before the A-10 crash, Monday, May 26, 1997, there were two reports of UFO activity in southern Arizona.) TWO MORE SIGHTINGS IN THE EASTERN UNITED STATES On Thursday, May 22, 1997, at 10:30 p.m., Julio Jimenez, who resides at a senior housing complex in Newark, New Jersey (population 329,248) was looking toward the western horizon when he saw "a round bright pencil shape (cylinder) moving in and out of the clouds. The craft had multi bright-colored lights on the leading edge all the way around with a light on top." Jimenez watched the UFO for 25 minutes as "it moved slowly" through the sky. (USENET Report) On Saturday, May 24, 1997, at 10 p.m., while watching the Memorial Day weekend fireworks display at Doreny Park in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (population 70,419), B.J. Makwah noticed "a bright red light in the sky" about one mile (1.6 kilometers) behind the exploding skyrockets. "Crowds of people began watching the red light. The light got smaller, but you could still see it. Then it sped off really fast. This was no airplane." (USENET Report) THE REAL IRISH UFO A report circulated on the Web last weekend, telling of three giant UFOs entering Sligo Bay on the northwest cost of Eire. The report was soon proven a hoax by Irish Fortean researcher Daev Walsh and a resident of Sligo Bay. The hoaxer apparently based the story on a recent genuine UFO report. On May 10, 1997, at about 2 p.m., a British camera crew videotaped "a round luminous UFO" in the town of Bantry, County Cork, Eire. The film will be shown as part of an ITV documentary entitled "We Are Not Alone." The two-part show will air in Britain on June 24 and June 26 at 10:45 p.m. (See the newspaper The Examiner of Cork, Eire for May 11, 1997. Many thanks to Daev Walsh for this news story.) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN TWICE IN CALIFORNIA On Monday, May 19, 1997, ufologists Autumn Sheppard and Robert Williams spotted a black helicopter flying over the desert near the town of Anza, California (population 75). They described the helicopter as an "oval black one, no markings, flying over at an altitude of 500 feet (152 meters)." Anza is on Highway 371 just north of the Cahuilla Indian Reservation, about 120 miles (252 kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles. The following day, Tuesday, May 20, the couple saw "one black helicopter and one gray one" fly over, followed by a third helicopter an hour later. On Tuesday, May 26, 1997, at 4:30 p.m., Larry Jenkins spotted a black helicopter alternately flying and hovering over a wooded area of the Nantahala National Forest, about 12 miles (18 kilometers) northwest of his hometown of Franklin, North Carolina (population 2,640). The Nantahala range is near the western border of North Carolina 297 miles (457 kilometers) west of Raleigh. Larry described it as "all black" and identified the model as a Boeing Vertol CH-47 Chinook. On Wednesday, May 28, 1997, witnesses in San Luis Obispo, California (population 34,252) saw "a huge dull black helicopter land in broad daylight a few miles east" of the city, at the county airport. San Luis Obispo is on Highway 101 approximately 182 miles (291 kilometers) northwest of Los Angeles. At least one "black helicopter" overflight has been identified as a United Nations mission. "Around sunset a week ago (March 24, 1997), a squadron of black helicopters--the kind conspiracy buffs say are favored by U.N. generals bent on world domination--flew along the East River (in New York City) past the Tower of Babble (the UN Building)." "At least one surprised New Yorker called U.N. headquarters to find out why, as spokesman Juan Carlos Brandt put it, a squadron of black helicopters, maybe with U.N. insignia, was flying in formation down the East River toward the U.N." "The helicopters were assigned by Canada to the U.N.'s peacekeeping office and were enroute from Montreal to Port-au-Prince, Haiti, on an overland flight plan." (See the Washington Times for March 31, 1997.) (Many thanks to Autumn, Bob, Larry and Gerard for these reports. Your email input is appreciated.) (Editor's Comment: Stuart Bailey of Chicago pointed out this week that the black helicopter seen recently in Fresno, California may have been a Eurocopter AS365, "which has retractable landing gear and a 'shrouded' tail rotor, which means it is set in the actual tail rotor. A 'shrouded tail rotor' might appear to be 'no tail rotor' to the untrained eye.") from the UFO Files... 1974: THE BEIT BRIDGE ENCOUNTER or "Check the Oil, Please." One of the strangest UFO encounters in Africa took place on May 31, 1974 and involved a couple, Peter and Frances MacNorman, who were driving from Salisbury, Rhodesia (now Harare, Zimbabwe) to South Africa. About 10 kilometers (6 miles) south of Umvuma, Peter thought he saw a man on the side of the road. The entity vanished. Then, "at 2:30 in the morning (May 31, 1974), Frances saw a light off to the left side of the vehicle apparently keeping pace with them. The car lights began to fade. Other electrical equipment, such as the radio, was unaffected; all around them there was a light bright enough to cast shadows. Both Peter and Frances felt remarkably cold and wrapped in coats and blankets while they were driving." "Peter was again driving fast, between 87-93 miles per hour (140-150 kmh) and he eased his foot off the accelerator. Nothing happened! The car continued to move at full speed, without headlights and completely out of Peter's control. He could not stop, brake, steer or in any way control the car." Just north of Port Victoria, Peter regained control of the Peugeot 404 and stopped at a gas station at 4:30 a.m. After topping off the tank, they resumed their journey, heading for the Beit Bridge over the Limpopo River. "During this next leg of the drive, the couple thought they might be off course because of the strange landscape around them, low bushes, high grasses, marshes and swamps...Yet again, Peter completely lost control of the car now at a speed of something like 125 miles per hour (200 kmh)...The road from Fort Victoria to Beit Bridge is very curved and twisted, but that night it was absolutely straight!" Reaching the South African border, Peter and Frances were stunned to learn that it was 8:30 a.m. Their watches and the Peugeot's dashboard clock both read 7:30 a.m. They had experienced an hour of "missing time." The drive from Fort Victoria to the South African border station at Beit Bridge is 179 miles (228 kilometers). After a drive like that, the Peugeot's gas tank should have been nearly empty. Peter was stunned to find it still full. Even more amazing were the tires. Back in Salisbury (Harare), Peter had mounted four worn retread Michelins on the car, figuring to buy four new tires at a bargain price in South Africa. When he checked the tires at Beit Bridge, the retreads were gone, replaced by four brand-new Michelin steel-belted radial tires. Peter had no recollection of stopping and changing the tires along the way. Later, the couple underwent hypnotic regression and told an incredible story of an alien "beaming into" the Peugeot's back seat, and then the car being levitated into a large silver-gray saucer. Under hypnosis, Peter claimed that he was "taken to Sickbay" aboard the saucer "for a medical exam" and saw his wife and several other humans, both black and white, who appeared to be in a trance. As he was led out of Sickbay, he saw the Peugeot in the saucer's "on-board hangar," parked between two small silver discs. The car's bonnet (hood) was up, and three or four large-headed occupants were giving the engine a tune-up. (See WORLD ATLAS OF UFOs by John Spencer, Smithmark Publishers Inc., New York, N.Y. 1991, pages 149-150) FUN UFO WEBSITES: Germany's UFONet has a page up and running. Check them out at http://www.ufo.ch/ufo-net/ The UFO site for Canada's Northwest Territories is now being updated. You'll find them at http://www.ssimicro.com/~ufoinfo Dr. Ricardo D. Arca's photo of the UFO spotted at Rancho Aurora near Salto, Uruguay back in September 1996 can be downloaded at this page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3184/aurora.html Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO. They're very easy to find at: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ For a peek at past issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check us out at: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/index.shtml If you see a UFO story in your local newspaper, clip it out and snail-mail it to us at UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886. If you have a UFO to report, email us at this address: Masinaigan@aol.com. That's it for this week. Here's wishing our readers in Western Australia a happy Foundation Day for tomorrow. We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1991 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date the news item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Ed Komarek and the B&B Affair From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:16:33 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:16:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Komarek and the B&B Affair Dear Ed: So what I thought was supposed to be a relatively recent incident now turns out to have happened five years ago. Way to keep score! And instead of MUFON thugs bursting in with flash cameras popping, it now appears that two people turned up on someone's doorstep (if anything happened at all), one of whom *may* have been associated with MUFON, and were apparently disappointed, and perhaps rude, that the announced conference wasn't being held. This is a far cry from the way this matter was first presented. Anyway, an investigation is still under way. You'll criticize us for this, no matter what the outcome, but to us it's all wasted time and energy--something we have to do to restore our good name because you posted the original complaint far & wide and pretended as if it meant something. Thanks! To the best of Walt Andrus's knowledge, MUFON did not even have a state section director in Waco five years ago. But we'll continue to look into the matter and let everyone know what, if anything, we find. As stated before, if we find any evidence whatsoever that anyone even remotely associated with MUFON was involved in this incident, we will immediately issue a public apology to that effect. However, even if the incident should have happened exactly as described in the most recent version you've posted, it should be obvious to everyone (except perhaps yourself) that such actions hardly constitute MUFON policy--otherwise cyberspace would be buzzing with similar complaints, especially since five years have now come and gone. I suspect your source--this someone who no one locally has ever heard of, yet who somehow managed nonetheless to attract all these important officials to her B&B--is suffering from self-imposed illusions of both grandeur and paranoia. We do predict, though, that she won't be able to find the business card of the individual involved (and why anyone hellbent on insulting and/or terrorizing someone would leave their business card behind still escapes me); we also predict that she (he?) won't even be able to remember the *name* of the individual supposedly involved, either--so that you or anyone else will be able to contact them for their side of the story. And aren't both sides of the story what we're really after? Or would you prefer not to hear ours? Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 IRC Channel Changes From: DeGodfather <yam@netvision.net.il> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 97 16:54:17 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:15:57 -0400 Subject: IRC Channel Changes To: UFO Updates <UpDates@GlobalServe.Net> From: yechiel A. Mann <Yam@NetVision.Net.Il> Subject: Update on IRC Channel. Please read. Date: June 1st, 1997. <Http://www.GeoCities.Com/Area51/Zone/6682> To all concerned, i know i've been Emailing a lot on the IRC channel lately, but please take the time to read a couple of short messages - i'm trying to cut down! :) First of all, the IRC channel is NO LONGER called #CSETI, but we've moved to #ETS that's our new channel, so please don't come to #CSETI anymore, but to #ETS - also on DALnet. To put things simply, our channel now has a Webpage, with updates on ALL the channel news! It's at: Http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/6682 Please, add this Link onto ALL of your Webpages! We had an EXCELLENT meeting last night, as everyone that was there could tell you! We had lots of good people, and lots of interesting conversation! As for the meeting with Norio Hayakawa, we have a final confirmation on Saturday, June 14th, at 12:00 noon PST (3:00pm EST, 8:00pm GMT). i'd like to remind everyone that the meeting with Dr. Steven Greer, head of CSETI, is on THIS Thursday, 5th of June, at 12:00 noon PST! All this already appears on our Website. Please visit it often! -yechiel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Skywatch: Alien Interview From: KAnder6444@aol.com [Katheen Anderson] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:16:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: Alien Interview I received a copy of an email sent by Scott Catamas (Strange Universe) regarding an alien interview tape that has come to light. For those who have not heard of this it bascially reads....... >"ROCKET PICTURES is the company that has "acquired" this >alleged alien interview, and they hope it will be the next "Alien >Autopsy". They are taking a similar "is it real or not" approach. >When I first saw it, I was convinced it was a hoax. We showed >the footage to 4 people (Whitley Strieber, Steve Neil, Jesse Long >and Alice Leavy). We also got a tape of Bob Dean's response to it. >The general concensus was that it was a well done hoax" snip >"HOWEVER, a few weeks later Michael Hesseman was in town. He >is one of the top UFO researchers in the world, and a very knowledgeable >guy. I showed him the tape and he was quite impressed. It turns out >that he has thoroughly researched an event that took place in May of >1989, in South Africa." <snip> >"The tape of this "alien interview" should be released to home video >in the next month or two" snip. Oh boy.....now what. I am not trying to be a debunker before I know all the details but I have two serious questions to ask right up front. 1) Alien autopsy or alien interview.....if two people who have had abduction experiences.....I mean one who has written 5 books about his interaction with aliens (Streiber) and another (Neil) who is a great artist and can draw vivid pictures of his abductors do not recognize the aliens portrayed in either the autopsy nor the interview, isn't something strange here? Yes granted I could eat my words and someone will come up and say that these aliens were from another galaxy but I have yet to hear one abductee recognize that body in the autopsy film as something they have had an encounter with! 2) released on home video? What are we talking about here...... a supposed major piece of vital proof and it is released on home video like some a box office flop? If it was real, wouldn't it be in the hands of the United Nations, a major government like the U.S, at some film lab, NSA, CIA, FBI, White House on and on and on before it ever was even heard of by us mushrooms? This doesn't make common sense. Who's kidding who? Michael, if you are still reading, maybe you can explain. Also Sean David Morton who also "swears it is real". Inquiring minds need to know! Kathleen Andersen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 UFO UpDates and CompuServe From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:15:44 -0400 Subject: UFO UpDates and CompuServe With the permission of Errol Bruce Knapp, I will begin archiving messages from UFO UpDates for the CompuServe UFO Forum. The UpDates messages will be compiled into a text file on a daily basis and uploaded to the UFO Forum Library. This will enable CompuServe UFO Forum members to have access to the informative posts on UFO UpDates without having to pay by the hour to go visit the archive on the web. CompuServe's UFO Forum is the new home for MUFON on CompuServe as well. There is an active MUFON message board and conferences are held every other week for people interested in learning more about MUFON. We have some special offers for MUFON members, if anyone is interested please conatact me. The UFO Forum is the place to be on CompuServe for in-depth discussions about UFOs and related phenomena. Ufologists, those just getting interested, even skeptics will find sections on theories of what UFOs are or are not, conversations about possible conspiracies, and information on such things as abductions and close encounters, the history of UFOs, their effect on and relationship with religion and science, current sightings, and hot, sometimes controversial topics such as the alien autopsy film, and many other topics. The UFO forum consists of three areas: Messages, Libraries, and Conference Rooms. In the message area, you can read and reply to messages from other UFO Forum members. Our libraries contain many files for fun and education, as well as software to make visiting the UFO Forum easier and more enjoyable.Use our conference rooms to chat with frieds, or attend a scheduled conference, workshop or seminar. On CompuServe: GO UFO. or GO MUFON.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:03:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:15:54 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair For God's sake, Dennis! > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:00:17 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B > Affair > And finally, I'm glad to see that Linda "Cortile" is now an expert > on > Roswell, too. Will miracles never cease? One can only wonder if it > came > about by sheer media osmosis, or merely by reading Ed Coma-wreck on > the > subject. Either way, it's still pretty amazing. > One last question for Linda before I go. Is it true that you had no > knowledge of the whereabouts of--and therefore no physical access > to--the > "mail drop" that Budd Hopkins set up in order to communicate with > Dan and > Richard? Curious minds would just like to know. First, Ed Komarek isn't worth your anger. Here's a guy who prints hearsay in his newsletter as if it were fact, with all the solemnity of a child saying "My friend told me!" Then, pressed to substantiate his story, he adds, "My friend Billy told me!" Yes, he made a pretty obnoxious charge about you, but you could just point at what's actually in the MUFON Journal, and let Ed hang himself. And now you've got to get after Linda. Sure, if Linda's taking Ed's side here, you have every right to be pissed. But she never claimed to be an expert on Roswell. She expressed an opinion, same as everyone else. She did so pretty modestly, too. You're way out of line. And what's up with putting "Cortile" in quotes? Everybody knows that's not her real last name. She has a right to her anonymity, same as any abductee, even if she's occasionally spoken in public or on TV (sometimes with her face blacked out). Are you implying there's something sleazy about her using another name to protect herself and her family, as if she somehow profited from it, the way Kathie Lee Gifford profited from the phony image of her perfect marriage? To me, it's wrong to print her real name, as Stefula et al did in their critique of her case, or as you did in the book you just edited with Hilary Evans. (I was going to speak to you about that privately, but the hell with it.) It's especially wrong because -- in both the Stefula paper and your introduction to your book -- her real name doesn't matter. Nothing you say would read any differently if you called her Linda Cortile. Let me repeat this a little differently, so my meaning is perfectly clear. Linda's reason for keeping her real name to herself is completely understandable. It's clear what she gains from doing it. Your reason for printing her name is not understandable. You gain nothing. At worst, it smacks of a kind of one-upsmanship -- a way of saying "gotcha! I know who you really are." What has she done to deserve that? Then finally there's your charge about the mail drop. Your rhetorical charge, I might add, since you know perfectly well what the answer is. You brought this matter to my attention quite a while ago. I looked into it, and we discussed what it meant. Yes, Budd Hopkins used a mail drop to send messages to Richard, one of the supposed witnesses in Linda's abduction case. Yes, the mail drop was outside Linda's door. Yes, Linda knew it was there. Now, I know that sounds like a great huge "gotcha!" Many people think that her case is a hoax, and that she's one of the hoaxers. So here we have Budd Hopkins conducting a supposedly private exchange of messages with one of the supposedly independent witnesses, and it turns out that Linda could have read what Hopkins said. That, skeptics will be quick to say, means that she could have written the replies, or passed on the information to some fellow-hoaxer to write. But this is truly ridiculous. Why? Because Budd had been getting letters from Richard already. Richard had already claimed to be a witnesss to the abduction. So if the case is a hoax, then the letters -- and the tape recording -- in which Richard describes what he claimed to see were already part of the deception. And therefore it wouldn't matter where the mail drop was! It could have been at Santa's house at the North Pole, in a men's room at FBI headquarters, or in Kal Korff's overflowing mailbox on AOL. What difference would it make? If Richard was part of the hoax, and Budd worked out a mail drop with Richard, then the hoaxers would know where the mail drop was. Period. Why does it matter if Linda was part of the loop? And there's something else. The people who chortle over this haven't stopped to think how the mail drop was set up. Budd was getting communications from Richard, allegedly a government security agent, and from his partner, Dan. They told him extraordinary things that he wanted to know more about. But he had no way to contact them. They said they wanted to protect themselves, which sounds perfectly reasonable, if they were who they said they were. So they didn't give him their addresses or phone numbers. Or fax numbers. Or e-mail addresses. And then, in one of his letters (which I've read), Richard proposed a mail drop outside Linda's apartment door. This wasn't unreasonable, given what had unfolded already in the case. Richard and Dan said they had Linda under surveillance. And Linda's apartment complex had very lax security. Anyone could walk right in. (And, as I've seen for myself, anyone can still walk right in now, even though there now are locked outside gates, and two guard houses instead of just one.) When he read this proposal, what was Budd supposed to do? Say "No, I don't like that idea"? Should he have told Richard "Let's find another place. because this one will look like Linda's doing a hoax"? And anyway, how was he going to communicate his objections to Richard? There was only one way -- through the drop Richard had proposed, outside Linda's door. So Budd would have to use the drop at least once in any case, and probably several more times, as he and Richard negotiated another location. I haven't asked Budd, but I can imagine he'd feel at a disadvantage doing that, for two reasons. First, Richard (if he really existed) was a security agent, and would presumably know more about mail drops than Budd. Second, Budd was the one who wanted to communicate. How could Budd hope to change Richard's mind? To me, it seems reasonable for Budd to agree to the drop, whatever qualms he might have had. He was getting something he badly wanted, in circumstances he couldn't control. His choices were to go for it, or, for all he knew, risk losing any chance of getting messages to Richard. Not surprisingly, he went for it, understanding -- as his critics apparently don't -- that he wasn't compromising his investigation. If the case was a hoax, the hoax had already begun, and a letter drop outside Linda's door wouldn't make it any more fake than it already was. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Cats, Toast, & UFOs From: stenger@spindle.net [Sharolyn Stenger] Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:23:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:16:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Cats, Toast, & UFOs >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:49:11 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cats, Toast, & UFOs >>Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:05:26 -0500 (CDT) >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Cats, Toast, & UFOs >>The following was found by my wife in one of her favorite >>newsgroups. They may be onto something here ... >>>Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.community >>>Subject: Fwd: THE CAT/TOAST UFO CONNECTION >>>From: Terry_Hagedorn@wnpb.wvnet.edu >>>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:56:58 -0400 >>> CATS, TOAST, AND UFO'S >>>Question: If when you drop a buttered piece of bread, it drops >>>butter side down and a cat always lands on its feet. What would >>>happen if you took a piece of buttered bread, strapped it on the >>>back of a cat (butter side up) and dropped it? >>>Answer: Even if you are too lazy to do the experiment yourself >>>you should be able to deduce the obvious result. The laws of >>>butterology demand that the butter must hit the ground, and the >>>equally strict laws of feline aerodynamics demand that the cat >>>can not smash it's furry back. >>>If the combined construct were to land, nature would have no way >>>to resolve this paradox. Therefore it simply does not fall. >============================================================= >Hi Errol, hi All, >All I want to know is, "How many buttered cats does it take to lift a >six foot tall, 195 lb. man and a small homemade UFO?" >This could result in a whole new classification system for UFO's! "Well, it >was a 'forty cat' sized scout craft,..." <G> >Loved the post, I cohabitate with five of these critters so I already have >the foundation for a formidable propulsion system! <G> >See you guys 'out there'... >John Velez :) Are these European or African cats? (Remember the coconut-carrying sparrows in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail?" The nationality seemed important to the accomplishment of the feat.) We need to establish these things before we start endangering kitty cats. Thanks to Brian for forwarding this delightful hot? buttered cat story. It was a lovely respite from the silly squabbling that has dominated these posts lately. But if squabbling is expected, here goes. My cat can lick your cat! Sharolyn Stenger Arlington, Texas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:15:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:15:38 -0400 Subject: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 From: CNINews1@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. CNI News is a subscription newsletter. First-time recipients may receive two free issues before subscribing. UFO/CNI researchers, educators and organizations may qualify for a complimentary subscription. For more information on how to subscribe, please see the notice at the end of this issue. Questions and comments may be addressed to: Editor, CNINews1@aol.com. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== DETAILS OF STEVEN GREER'S WASHINGTON DC BRIEFINGS Impressive Program Marred by Blatant Document Ripoff By Michael Lindemann Many details of the April 9-10 Washington DC "closed briefing on UFOs and Extraterrestrial Intelligence" hosted by Dr. Steven Greer's Project Starlight Coalition for members of Congress and invited press have recently been disclosed to CNI News. A participant at the briefings, who has requested anonymity, sent CNI News a complete set of briefing documents as well as a videotape of the closed press briefing and the videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." >From these materials it would be possible to disclose to our readers the names of many key UFO witnesses as well as the names of many Congressional personnel who attended the events. It is precisely this information which Greer and his organization have sought to keep confidential, on the theory that only such confidentiality at this stage will preserve the fragile but growing trust needed to bring witnesses and government leaders together on this highly sensitive subject. CNI News believes there is merit in maintaining this confidentiality. After viewing the closed press conference videotape of April 10, it is our judgment that potentially important information was presented in a dignified and persuasive way to a small but significant group of people. We see evidence that Greer's organization is making good, at least to some degree, on its stated strategy. It is not our desire to derail their efforts through overzealous, untimely reporting. However, there are many details of what took place that we feel justified in reporting, including at least one instance of deplorable bad judgment on Steven Greer's part which cannot go unchallenged. Although the two most-publicized events in this multi-day program were a closed presentation for invited members of Congress and other government officials on April 9, and a closed briefing for members of the press held on April 10, CNI News has learned that Greer conducted a large number of smaller private meetings with various government and press personnel who either could not or did not wish to participate in the higher-profile briefings. Thus, those who attended only the two main briefings were not in a position to know how many people Greer and his team actually met with. CNI News has received a complete list of Congressional offices that indicated plans to attend, in most cases sending staff aides; but we have also learned that only a minority of those named were actually in the official briefing on April 9. Assuming Greer found other ways to meet with the no-shows, the list indicates contact with no fewer than 11 Senate offices, 25 members of the House, two state governors and one Clinton staffer. However, our sources at the briefing say that they can be certain of only three Congressional office staffers and one Clinton staffer being present, as well as one Congressman and eight other Congressional staffers "probably" in attendance. Two state houses were also "probably" represented by staff. At least the following press organizations were represented at the April 10 closed press briefing: U.S. News and World Report, the Boston Globe, United Press International, News Channel 8 TV from New Haven, CT (an ABC affiliate), New View Films for UPN's "Strange Universe," Sources Journal and Paradigm Research Group. The Times of London was either at the briefing or met with Greer at a different time. Other press may have been present as well. Videotape sent to CNI News shows the April 10 press briefing to have been a well-organized, no-nonsense affair. Steven Greer made brief opening remarks, then introduced a succession of witnesses, each of whom made a personal statement of several minutes' duration. The first of these speakers was astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who has never claimed to be a UFO witness but is now on record as a strong supporter of the Greer organization's efforts. Dr. Mitchell stated that he has become convinced that a core of UFO incidents are real and highly important, and that it is time for official secrecy to end. He also stressed that a great deal of the UFO information in the public arena is nonsensical, at least some of that no doubt intentionally planted to promote the cover-up, and that this briefing was meant to help sort out the essential facts from the nonsense. In sum, Mitchell's opening statement was a strong starting point for a briefing that continued strongly thereafter. In a printed "Summary of selected witnesses" participating in the DC events, Greer listed 15 people, but named no one in writing except Edgar Mitchell. At the press briefing, seven witnesses spoke following Mitchell. Each of these people was introduced by name. Since they were named in a press briefing, it would seem fair to assume that naming them here is permissible. However, CNI News chooses to err on the side of caution in this regard, for the moment. Two of these witnesses, however, have been public enough in the past that naming them here cannot be faulted. The first of these is Air Force Major (ret.) George Filer, who, among other things, is the Eastern Region Director for MUFON. Filer, the first to speak after Edgar Mitchell, briefly described three UFO incidents he had witnessed but emphasized an event that occurred in 1978 at McGuire Air Force Base and the adjoining Fort Dix in New Jersey. At that time, Filer said, he was Deputy Director of Intelligence for the 21st Air Force at McGuire. Early one morning he reported for duty only to find the base headquarters in an uproar over UFO sightings that had been happening around the base during the night. More important, he learned that shots were fired at Fort Dix at an intruder who was then seen running toward a runway at McGuire. A small body was soon found lying on the runway, Filer said. That body, evidently dead and not human, was soon picked up by a C-141 aircraft dispatched from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Filer did not know what became of it after that. Another witness whose statements have been previously published was Commander (ret.) Graham Bethune, a Navy pilot and test pilot who witnessed an extraordinary UFO off the coast of Iceland in February, 1951. An account of this incident was published in "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good. Bethune says he had been told by military personnel in Iceland that there had been many sightings of unusual aircraft, which were assumed to be some new Soviet weapon. However, Bethune and a crew of men were flying a Navy transport on the night of February 10 when they witnessed, first, a bright glow on the water at a distance of some 25 miles, then saw a large disk-like object move toward them at a tremendous speed, stopping only a few hundred yards in front of and below their own aircraft. The object, Bethune said, was at least 300 feet in diameter and had approached them at a speed well in excess of 1,000 miles per hour, then stopped and hovered for several moments before withdrawing to a distance of about five miles and pacing their plane for several more minutes before disappearing over the horizon at super speed. Bethune noted that his onboard magnetic compasses were spinning wildly while the mystery craft was nearby. He surmises it was lucky that his plane's control functions were mainly hydraulic rather than electrical. He said it was not until much later that he realized his sighting corresponded to the other unusual reports in Iceland, but he knew immediately that the object he saw could not have been a human aircraft. Another male witness, now a successful attorney, told of attending a briefing while in the Army Signal Corps in which he was shown unusual metal fragments with strange embossed hieroglyphics, and another piece that could be bent but would always spring back to its original shape. He said he was also told that President Eisenhower was keenly interested in UFOs, and that the presidential bunker at Mt. Weather, Virginia was equipped to track UFO activity. Another male witness told of tracking UFOs on radar as they performed extraordinary feats of speed and maneuvering. Yet another male witness, an Air Force Lt. Colonel (ret.), told of observing a number of luminous UFOs at Loring Air Force Base on the night of April 19, 1969. The sole woman witness at this briefing told of her work at a NASA facility, where she was a technical illustrator for many years. On one occasion she observed a large black and white NASA photo which contained an obvious UFO. She pointed it out to a photo technician, who explained to her that "we always airbrush those out" before releasing them to the public. From this she surmised that this happened fairly often. The last person to speak was a long-time professional astronomer who explained that the SETI project (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, using radio telescopes) had received a large number of signals of "unusual quality" -- meaning non-random, repeating, not generated by known human equipment or celestial objects. In this astronomer's view, "It is quite clear that there have been signals received. From where, from who, I do not know." The combined impact made by this lineup of witnesses was extremely impressive. Each one came across as a highly credible, rational, articulate and concerned human being. Each one obviously understood that they were not providing proof of anything, but their stories could not fail to arouse interest in any open-minded listener. With this in mind, CNI News finds it unfortunate and even somewhat odd that there was not more press reporting of this briefing. Nonetheless, we feel that the reporters who attended must have gone home with plenty of food for thought, and perhaps this will make them more ready to do responsible reporting on the UFO subject at a later time. Along with the presentation of witnesses, Greer's team assembled and distributed a large package of printed materials and a videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." The printed package has recently been offered for sale to the public, but the video will undoubtedly remain unavailable because of copyright infringement. For anyone familiar with the dozens of widely-distributed UFO videos on today's market, the video assemble by Steven Greer would hold no surprises. In fact, it appears that his tape contains no original footage but is composed entirely of clips from otherwise available tapes. Many of these clips, more than 80 all together, are classic stills, some of them enlarged or enhanced. Many others are video clips from Mexico and assorted other places. A few are highly dubious (for example, a very long version of the infamous "Guardian" UFO video from Carp, Ontario is labeled "ARV," meaning human-built "alien reproduction vehicle," a quite improbable claim), while some others are simply indistinct (a video clip from the Canary Islands contains nothing resembling a UFO, as far as we could see). As an exhibit of evidence, this video would have been more effective at one-fourth the length, showing only the most classic and impressive footage. The printed briefing package, titled "Comprehensive Briefing Document: CSETI Project Starlight," is massive at over 400 photocopied pages, and is divided into three parts. Part One consists of 17 CSETI documents and position papers mostly authored by Steven Greer. This part runs a total of 49 pages. Part Two, titled "Best Available Evidence, Executive Summary," is a scaled-down version of a document previously published by the UFO Research Coalition of MUFON, Center for UFO Studies and Fund for UFO Research. Running 28 pages, this section of Greer's briefing package makes him liable to charges of plagiarism, a point to which we will return in a moment. Part Three, titled "United States Government Documents Related to UFOs," contains 117 separate documents running a total of more than 300 pages. Most of these documents are in the public domain and will be familiar to any well-read UFO enthusiast. Nonetheless, it is a quite thorough presentation. But Greer's zeal clearly got the better of him regarding the "Best Available Evidence" document. His error was not simply that he copied the document without permission or attribution. He removed the original cover and replaced it with another cover which signified it as a CSETI document. This was grossly dishonest and a show of deplorably bad judgment. Furthermore, CNI News has received a more extended version of the same document, evidently also distributed by Greer during the DC briefings. This version, again with Greer's own cover, reproduces nearly the entire text of the "Unidentified Flying Objects Briefing Document: The Best Available Evidence," which was originally published in 1995 by the UFO Research Coalition with the backing of philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller. The original version was mainly written by Don Berliner, with Antonio Huneeus and Marie Galbraith listed as co-authors. While Greer's version credits Berliner as author, it deletes all reference to the other UFO organizations, the co-authors and Rockefeller, and instead states on the replacement cover: "Concept, Title and Strategy: Steven M. Greer, M.D.; Case Selection: CSETI Project Starlight Team." In a page by page comparison of Greer's document with the original, CNI News found that Greer had taken pains to modify every page of his document slightly -- usually by no more than one or two sentences. Nonetheless, over 90 percent of the text is exactly identical. Thus Greer must be accused of a gross act of plagiarism and violation of copyright. The treachery of this act is compounded by stupidity, in the view of CNI News, in the fact that Greer could have done entirely without this document and had a perfectly adequate set of briefing materials. CNI News has learned that the UFO Research Coalition intends to take legal action against Greer. CNI News considers it highly unfortunate that the Project Starlight Washington DC briefing process has been marred by this infraction on Greer's part. We believe the effort undertaken during April in Washington shows promise of bearing good fruit in the future. We call upon Steven Greer and all CSETI personnel and supporters to hold to the highest standards of integrity in the future, so as not to further compromise their own best intentions and good potential. CNI News will continue to report on this story as further information becomes available. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 'Art's Parts' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 23:04:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:21:55 -0400 Subject: 'Art's Parts' Dear colleagues, Does anyone have any further information on the alleged Roswell material sent to Art Bell ? Things have gone quiet on this front although I have heard that Lynda Moulton Howe has had some of this material analysed. All the best, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: 02 June 1997 03:32 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:16:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases >Date: 01 Jun 97 07:06:10 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Debunkers - Roswell and Other Cases James Diss wrote: >How many is _some_, Linda? >How much is a debunker paid? >Who are they, and how do they command respect from a field >that is known for intimidating that intelligence is in league >with/covering up alien presence? Gee, James...I don't have answers for your questions. But from the looks of what you have written, you might very well have the answers yourself. Sorry I've ruffled your feathers, or did I hit a nerve? >And wait for the landslide to pass him by? Why _should_ >someone not have the ability to change their mind about >something when they feel like it? Ah, hello...hello! Didn't I say that Kent *could wait if he wanted to?* Who said he shouldn't have the ability to change his mind? You? >That should perhaps be in the third person, as Ed seems to prefer >writing that way. Why do you bring Ed into this? He didn't say that. I DID. Personally, I like the way Ed writes. So, thanks for the compliment. >I wouldn't bet on it. Dissenting views tend to get edited out >of the general scheme of things in a miasma of back-patting >and promotional tours. Some just don't give a fig. Maybe you wouldn't bet on it, but I would. Budd Hopkins' book sales are the proof in the pudding. The debunkers did Budd a favor. As far as *figs* are concerned, I'd never give anyone a fig, either! <G> >The strange argument you've used tends to suggest that any- >thing scrutinised must be true, devil take the evidence. I'm >awfully glad that they let that OJ person go free. And Redux >_must_ be OK for use, as they're trying so hard to withdraw it. Well, I'll suppose it goes according to how you think about it. In my opinion, if a case is debunked for several years and it holds up under such scrutiny, then you have a solid case. A solid case, for instance, Roswell,etc., is usually credible and may have more truth to it than others do. By the way, I disagree with you. OJ should have been put in jail. >I take it that all the nonsense about unloading a gun before >cleaning it is a diabolical plot to cover something up? If you think it's nonsense to unload a gun before cleaning it, then you have a lot of serious thinking to do. tsk tsk... I always unload my 9mm semi-auto when I clean it. After all, I want to live to see my marksmanship certificate this year. >Scary? Amusing. Mainly for the criterion of what is considered >'truth'. Sorry you feel that way, pal. But to tell you the *truth,* if debunkers thought that certain cases were *amusing,* why do the veins pop out of their heads when they speak of them? When I'm amused, like I am now, I smile, or laugh my head off. >I like the capitalsation. Nice touch. However, you did make this a >tad gender-specific, which means you had someone in mind. >Did you? Thanks! I thought the caps of the word MORON I used, in my last post was a good touch too. Gender specific? YOU BET!!!! Every debunker I've had a run-in with was a man. I hope they're out there reading my posts. Especially, the self-made MORONS from South Jersey. However, if I ever run into a female debunker, I'll be sure to write *he/she* MORONS. That's a promise! >Extremely true. If people hadn't bothered about your case, then >it would've faded out of view. I think that maybe you ought to be >slightly thankful for all the attention. I'll suppose if people didn't bother with any case, there wouldn't be Ufology. All the cases would've faded away. Hell no! Who wants to be known as a "UFO Space Cadet?" But you should be thankful for the attention. After all, many of us have dignified your posts with replys. I've noticed a tad of jealousy in your remark, eh? <G> >Until they find the wire supporting the 'UFO', eh? Well, if they do, please let me know, ok? I sure would like to know the size of the *cable* that might've held up the UFO that hovered over *my* building. Apparently, one of the elevators in the building complex where I live, is out of order. It could use a cable that strong. It isn't easy walking up and down 12 flights of stairs. <G> Ya know? >You do know that Bobby Fisher went mildly bonkers, don't you? Gee whiz, James. I didn't know that. Poor, poor Bobby. The same thing happened to Einstein. But I don't think that you have anything to worry about. You're dealing with a full deck, eh? >For one, this hasn't happened, and remains the best thing any- >one in the field can hope for. I personally would be gratified if it >did happen, because this is why I entered the field to find a >sideshow of Barnumesque proportions ruling roost, where the >best story gets the attention, rather than concentrating on >things that are _real_, falsifiable_ and well-reported. I'll suppose, different strokes, for different folks, James. While you sit on the White House lawn waiting to gratify yourself, the rest of the UFO investigators will be doing the real research. Thanks for the laugh, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 San Marino UFO Conference From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:45 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:47:49 -0400 Subject: San Marino UFO Conference I just wanted to let everyone know that Philip Mantle, Susan Mantle and I will present an hour and a half update on research on the Santilli AA film at the San Marino UFO Conference later this week. If any list members will be attending the conference, please look me up and say hello. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:14 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:49:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:38:48 -0400 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >So, my question is......IF the item crashed, had the WEIGHT to gouge the >earth and SCATTER debris, can ANYONE explain how a BALLOON could POSSIBLY do >this? David, What crashed near Roswell was a balloon train of Mylar balloons inflated with swamp gas, with fireflies glued all over the outside. Several tons of Army surplus anvils were hung underneath, and as it lost altitude in a terrible thunderstorm the anvils gouged the earth. Then lightning struck it and the methane blew up, scattering debris over a wide area. The anvils? Oh, nobody wanted to let on since anvils were so valuable to local ranchers, so they just divvied them up and carried them off. As proof of this I invite debunkers to visit the ranches in the area. Every damned one of them has an anvil! What more could you ask for as proof? I think this theory makes every bit as much sense as the "official" one. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Caught on Film From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:03:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:24:19 -0400 Subject: Caught on Film Hi Errol Hi All I found this in the Sunday Mirror 31-05-97 UK newspaper Caught on film....proof that aliens do exist. It is bug-eyed like an insect, has a huge head and wierd, grey body and it comes from a galaxy near you. TV viewers have just been shown the the first-ever pictures of a LIVE alien. Investigators say that the frail, ET-like creature survived a spacecraft crash in the New Mexico desert FIFTY years ago. The amazing video which was shown on the German PRO7 Channel was smuggled out of the top secret Area 51 US base in the Nevada desert, where the alien was said to have been interrogated. Now despite claims that the film is a hoax, it has sparked a international call for the US President Clinton to "come clean" on America's secret files on UFO's and aliens. It is fairly well known that Ray Santilli sold the Alien Autopsy films to a German buyer. So what I wonder is, are these connected? There was another six roles of film that Santilli never released so I wonder if these are connected? It was reported at the crash that there was one live alien, could this be the film of that one? There was also a poor quality picture with the article and if anyone would like a copy please email me and I will post you one back. In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:42 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:47:10 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:59:59 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I spent a LOT of time making corrections to the page proofs of Beyond Roswell. I was assured that these corrections would be incorporated in the final print run. I have not yet received a copy of the published book, but if you quote accurately then my corrections were not made. If the final text says McAndrews rather than the correct name McAndrew, then that is a major error which was not corrected. I can only say that if my corrections were not incorporated into the text in spite of assurances, then I will be pretty damned angry! Going over this thing line by line took a lot of valuable time, and I did it only for concerns over accuracy since I am not getting paid for the time. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: Raelian Movement Meeting 5/28/97 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:24 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:48:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Raelian Movement Meeting 5/28/97 > Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:36:41 GMT > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> > Subject: Raelian Movement Meeting 5/28/97 Just what we need, another nut-case cult! Sounds like this guy has read Sitchin but not understood it, and mixed it with a lot of pseudo-religious claptrap. If they really have videos of life on another planet, let's see them! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #141 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 05:41:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:22:33 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #141 Apology to MW #141 (For June 2, 1997) It=92s the life of the moment When blessing=92s been by. And the worries recede Into clouds for awhile. With the animals healthy And with plenty to eat; Even flies are unbothersome, And their flight is a treat! The day=92s tiny dinosaurs Sing brightly in unison. They share the back yard Free to fly =96 beyond innocent! The black ones are grazing With red ones on guard For they eat different bugs And they are each in regard. Success without planning . . . Think about potential! We have their physicality, plus We=92ve self aware credentials! There are mountains in the distance. And I climb them with dispatch. The view from there can take your breath; From your worry, you detach. =20 A crystal breeze is in your eyes, Smell flowers born in heaven. Huge mountain space beyond all touch, And it=92s choice that is your haven. Spread your arms and shoot for skyward. Let the stars define what=92s free! "Before I die I want the sky" "To shoot down into me." I could be dead tomorrow, Or I could live a million years! This is the science forecast, It=92s beyond your tears and fears. Right now I live forever When someone takes the time. To share my conscience with me I can put in words that rhyme. They come from muse=92s breast On the tops of covered hills From temples that can smile While guaranteeing useful chills. Behind pink marble columns In the temple of my mind There stands the smoky oracle Of an alien view through time. Take the view and find what=92s hateful Dissolve like what=92s gone past. Cast off that stone, and fill your lungs! You can BREATH at long, long last. It=92s the hatred that confines you,=20 And gives you all your pain. It=92s where folks from space are hiding, In our shallow unused brains. These hiding folks do worry As they find us special still. We may be sunlight in their darkness We may be flowers on their hill. We have some use or we would find Them killing all that=92s human. They smite us not, or in such a way That snaps in two your logic, *proven*. It may be true you=92d live a lie To keep from starting over. But I don=92t find that possible, And I=92ll roll in sweeter clover. Lehmberg@snowhill.com --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for rolling in that clover! =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: IRC Channels (in general) From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:48:33 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:54:28 -0400 Subject: Re: IRC Channels (in general) UFO UpDates - Toronto writes: > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 97 16:54:17 PDT > From: DeGodfather <yam@netvision.net.il> > Subject: Update on IRC channel. Please read. > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: yechiel A. Mann <Yam@NetVision.Net.Il> > <Http://www.GeoCities.Com/Area51/Zone/6682> > > i know i've been Emailing a lot on the IRC channel > lately, but please take the time to read a couple > of short messages - i'm trying to cut down! :) > First of all, the IRC channel is NO LONGER called > #CSETI, but we've moved to #ETS > that's our new channel, so please don't come to > #CSETI anymore, but to #ETS - also on DALnet. I think I should take the time to point out that there are *many* UFO-related channels on the various IRC servers, and all are a bit different, catering to different needs and audiences. The CSETI channel is only one, and would appeal only to those interested in that context. The longest-running channel is #ufo on the Efnet. Efnet is prone to bot wars and petty infighting, so many have left it for other pastures. However, it was host to the recent simulcasting of Talk America radio programs with UFO themes, and often has significant discussion again. On the Undernet, there are a variety of channels. The #ufo channel is a bit more regulated, with no bots, and often has guest speakers. Stanton Friedman has been on both the Efnet and Undernet UFO channels, as have been Kal Korff and other noted ufologists. Undernet also hosts channels named #devils_tower, #esp, #A_UFO_TRUTH, #UFO_ESP, #majic, #blackvault and #visitations, although the latter is inactive as the rumor is it moved to Dalnet, another IRC center. There is also another channel that is more private and I won't tell you the name because it has serious discussion there and we want to keep the riff-raff out. :) In an ideal world, IRC is a perfect medium for exchnaging ideas and information, even for reporting UFO sightings. In fact, when I first joined the Efnet channel, I was impressed when UFOs were being actually reported *live* as they were observed! But because the channels are usually open forums, anyone who wants to contribute can join and make comments. Unfortunately, 90% of the comments are not worthwhile, and many are downright insulting or, more often, obscene. IRC is a great vehicle for promulgating rumors and old stories. New users looking for serious information or for guidance through the minefield of ufology often receive inaccurate info from radical believers or misinformed buffs. It's too bad, because it's a wonderful medium for exchanging serious information, as I noted. In fact, there are many serious discussions on IRC, but these are private and highly-guarded with the intent to avoid interference. Many evolve into cliqueish societies and mutual-admiration groups. Others function well as private, realtime information exchange centers. It's not a perfect system, but it has some merits. Well, a few, anyway. -- Chris Rutkowski rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:25:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:03:11 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 Hello List, This as noted was part of a recent UFO ROUNDUP. I hope Joseph Trainor doesn't mind me using it here again as an example of similiar sightings I have come across before. Joseph Trainor wrote: >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:55:26 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 2, Number 22 >June 1, 1997 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >On Saturday, May 24, 1997, at 10 p.m., while >watching the Memorial Day weekend fireworks display at >Doreny Park in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (population >70,419), B.J. Makwah noticed "a bright red light in the >sky" about one mile (1.6 kilometers) behind the exploding >skyrockets. "Crowds of people began watching the red >light. The light got smaller, but you could still see it. >Then it sped off really fast. This was no airplane." >(USENET Report) While investigating the Shag Harbour Incident of Oct. 4/ 67, I came across two incidents that same evening [there was a general flap over Southwestern Nova Scotia] that seemed to involve UFOs being attracted to large displays of human-generated light. The first instance occurred in Lunenburg, N.S. about 45-60 minutes before the actual Incident at Shag Harbour. Three men were burning a 30 foot yacht that was too old and rotten to rebuild. They got it as far up on a beach during high tide as possible then torched it. It took more to time to burn it than they bargined for and took nearly eight hours to complete it. The owner, a professional photographer noticed lights in the sky to the west when he was down the beach from the firelight looking for additional fuel to keep the sodden hull burning, and pointed them out to the other two, who thought it might have been either a helicopter or a lighted tower, both theories of which were not plausible. The professional took a time lapse of the object(s) which remained motionless for the 5 min. it took. The time of visual observation of the objects was about 15 minutes, during which they did not move. (See the photo in Kevin Randles "The Randle Report". Or view it in color in our upcoming book, "Dark Object, The Shag Harbour Incident" One half hour later, 50 miles west-nor'west of Shag harbour and about 15 minutes prior to the Shag Harbour event at 11:00P.M. local, 14 or 15 Herring Seiners (fishing boats ) were chasing a school of herring up the southwestern coast of N.S. off an area called Digby neck in the Bay of Fundy. When they start pulling in their purse nets the boats tend to cluster as the school thickens. They swich on their arc lights so as to light the working areas of the boats and avoid ramming one another. When this happens the effect is startling out on the dark waters with the area lit up like a small floating city. A UFO appeared out of nowhere and began some antics that arrested all work on the boats, The crews watched in fascination for about five minutes while the UFO turned into three objects in the shape of a triangle, swooped and zipped around then took off to the southeast. These are just two examples of where lights seemed to have attracted an extraterrestrial audience. Maybe no small wonder when you consider how UFOs have been confounding us with their aerial displays for many years. Are there any other examples out there? Regards, Don Ledger
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 13:59:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 13:59:38 -0400 Subject: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 The first version of this message got away from me whilst I was dozing at the keyboard in the wee hours of this morning. It should have had a couple of inclusions. ebk __________________________________________ The following is posted with the permission of its author, Michael Lindemann. From: CNINews1@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. CNI News is a subscription newsletter. First-time recipients may receive two free issues before subscribing. UFO/CNI researchers, educators and organizations may qualify for a complimentary subscription. For more information on how to subscribe, please see the notice at the end of this issue. Questions and comments may be addressed to: Editor, CNINews1@aol.com. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== DETAILS OF STEVEN GREER'S WASHINGTON DC BRIEFINGS Impressive Program Marred by Blatant Document Ripoff By Michael Lindemann Many details of the April 9-10 Washington DC "closed briefing on UFOs and Extraterrestrial Intelligence" hosted by Dr. Steven Greer's Project Starlight Coalition for members of Congress and invited press have recently been disclosed to CNI News. A participant at the briefings, who has requested anonymity, sent CNI News a complete set of briefing documents as well as a videotape of the closed press briefing and the videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." >From these materials it would be possible to disclose to our readers the names of many key UFO witnesses as well as the names of many Congressional personnel who attended the events. It is precisely this information which Greer and his organization have sought to keep confidential, on the theory that only such confidentiality at this stage will preserve the fragile but growing trust needed to bring witnesses and government leaders together on this highly sensitive subject. CNI News believes there is merit in maintaining this confidentiality. After viewing the closed press conference videotape of April 10, it is our judgment that potentially important information was presented in a dignified and persuasive way to a small but significant group of people. We see evidence that Greer's organization is making good, at least to some degree, on its stated strategy. It is not our desire to derail their efforts through overzealous, untimely reporting. However, there are many details of what took place that we feel justified in reporting, including at least one instance of deplorable bad judgment on Steven Greer's part which cannot go unchallenged. Although the two most-publicized events in this multi-day program were a closed presentation for invited members of Congress and other government officials on April 9, and a closed briefing for members of the press held on April 10, CNI News has learned that Greer conducted a large number of smaller private meetings with various government and press personnel who either could not or did not wish to participate in the higher-profile briefings. Thus, those who attended only the two main briefings were not in a position to know how many people Greer and his team actually met with. CNI News has received a complete list of Congressional offices that indicated plans to attend, in most cases sending staff aides; but we have also learned that only a minority of those named were actually in the official briefing on April 9. Assuming Greer found other ways to meet with the no-shows, the list indicates contact with no fewer than 11 Senate offices, 25 members of the House, two state governors and one Clinton staffer. However, our sources at the briefing say that they can be certain of only three Congressional office staffers and one Clinton staffer being present, as well as one Congressman and eight other Congressional staffers "probably" in attendance. Two state houses were also "probably" represented by staff. At least the following press organizations were represented at the April 10 closed press briefing: U.S. News and World Report, the Boston Globe, United Press International, News Channel 8 TV from New Haven, CT (an ABC affiliate), New View Films for UPN's "Strange Universe," Sources Journal and Paradigm Research Group. The Times of London was either at the briefing or met with Greer at a different time. Other press may have been present as well. Videotape sent to CNI News shows the April 10 press briefing to have been a well-organized, no-nonsense affair. Steven Greer made brief opening remarks, then introduced a succession of witnesses, each of whom made a personal statement of several minutes' duration. The first of these speakers was astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who has never claimed to be a UFO witness but is now on record as a strong supporter of the Greer organization's efforts. Dr. Mitchell stated that he has become convinced that a core of UFO incidents are real and highly important, and that it is time for official secrecy to end. He also stressed that a great deal of the UFO information in the public arena is nonsensical, at least some of that no doubt intentionally planted to promote the cover-up, and that this briefing was meant to help sort out the essential facts from the nonsense. In sum, Mitchell's opening statement was a strong starting point for a briefing that continued strongly thereafter. In a printed "Summary of selected witnesses" participating in the DC events, Greer listed 15 people, but named no one in writing except Edgar Mitchell. At the press briefing, seven witnesses spoke following Mitchell. Each of these people was introduced by name. Since they were named in a press briefing, it would seem fair to assume that naming them here is permissible. However, CNI News chooses to err on the side of caution in this regard, for the moment. Two of these witnesses, however, have been public enough in the past that naming them here cannot be faulted. The first of these is Air Force Major (ret.) George Filer, who, among other things, is the Eastern Region Director for MUFON. Filer, the first to speak after Edgar Mitchell, briefly described three UFO incidents he had witnessed but emphasized an event that occurred in 1978 at McGuire Air Force Base and the adjoining Fort Dix in New Jersey. At that time, Filer said, he was Deputy Director of Intelligence for the 21st Air Force at McGuire. Early one morning he reported for duty only to find the base headquarters in an uproar over UFO sightings that had been happening around the base during the night. More important, he learned that shots were fired at Fort Dix at an intruder who was then seen running toward a runway at McGuire. A small body was soon found lying on the runway, Filer said. That body, evidently dead and not human, was soon picked up by a C-141 aircraft dispatched from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Filer did not know what became of it after that. Another witness whose statements have been previously published was Commander (ret.) Graham Bethune, a Navy pilot and test pilot who witnessed an extraordinary UFO off the coast of Iceland in February, 1951. An account of this incident was published in "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good. Bethune says he had been told by military personnel in Iceland that there had been many sightings of unusual aircraft, which were assumed to be some new Soviet weapon. However, Bethune and a crew of men were flying a Navy transport on the night of February 10 when they witnessed, first, a bright glow on the water at a distance of some 25 miles, then saw a large disk-like object move toward them at a tremendous speed, stopping only a few hundred yards in front of and below their own aircraft. The object, Bethune said, was at least 300 feet in diameter and had approached them at a speed well in excess of 1,000 miles per hour, then stopped and hovered for several moments before withdrawing to a distance of about five miles and pacing their plane for several more minutes before disappearing over the horizon at super speed. Bethune noted that his onboard magnetic compasses were spinning wildly while the mystery craft was nearby. He surmises it was lucky that his plane's control functions were mainly hydraulic rather than electrical. He said it was not until much later that he realized his sighting corresponded to the other unusual reports in Iceland, but he knew immediately that the object he saw could not have been a human aircraft. Another male witness, now a successful attorney, told of attending a briefing while in the Army Signal Corps in which he was shown unusual metal fragments with strange embossed hieroglyphics, and another piece that could be bent but would always spring back to its original shape. He said he was also told that President Eisenhower was keenly interested in UFOs, and that the presidential bunker at Mt. Weather, Virginia was equipped to track UFO activity. Another male witness told of tracking UFOs on radar as they performed extraordinary feats of speed and maneuvering. Yet another male witness, an Air Force Lt. Colonel (ret.), told of observing a number of luminous UFOs at Loring Air Force Base on the night of April 19, 1969. The sole woman witness at this briefing told of her work at a NASA facility, where she was a technical illustrator for many years. On one occasion she observed a large black and white NASA photo which contained an obvious UFO. She pointed it out to a photo technician, who explained to her that "we always airbrush those out" before releasing them to the public. From this she surmised that this happened fairly often. The last person to speak was a long-time professional astronomer who explained that the SETI project (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, using radio telescopes) had received a large number of signals of "unusual quality" -- meaning non-random, repeating, not generated by known human equipment or celestial objects. In this astronomer's view, "It is quite clear that there have been signals received. From where, from who, I do not know." The combined impact made by this lineup of witnesses was extremely impressive. Each one came across as a highly credible, rational, articulate and concerned human being. Each one obviously understood that they were not providing proof of anything, but their stories could not fail to arouse interest in any open-minded listener. With this in mind, CNI News finds it unfortunate and even somewhat odd that there was not more press reporting of this briefing. Nonetheless, we feel that the reporters who attended must have gone home with plenty of food for thought, and perhaps this will make them more ready to do responsible reporting on the UFO subject at a later time. Along with the presentation of witnesses, Greer's team assembled and distributed a large package of printed materials and a videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." The printed package has recently been offered for sale to the public, but the video will undoubtedly remain unavailable because of copyright infringement. For anyone familiar with the dozens of widely-distributed UFO videos on today's market, the video assemble by Steven Greer would hold no surprises. In fact, it appears that his tape contains no original footage but is composed entirely of clips from otherwise available tapes. Many of these clips, more than 80 all together, are classic stills, some of them enlarged or enhanced. Many others are video clips from Mexico and assorted other places. A few are highly dubious (for example, a very long version of the infamous "Guardian" UFO video from Carp, Ontario is labeled "ARV," meaning human-built "alien reproduction vehicle," a quite improbable claim), while some others are simply indistinct (a video clip from the Canary Islands contains nothing resembling a UFO, as far as we could see). As an exhibit of evidence, this video would have been more effective at one-fourth the length, showing only the most classic and impressive footage. The printed briefing package, titled "Comprehensive Briefing Document: CSETI Project Starlight," is massive at over 400 photocopied pages, and is divided into three parts. Part One consists of 17 CSETI documents and position papers mostly authored by Steven Greer. This part runs a total of 49 pages. Part Two, titled "Best Available Evidence, Executive Summary," is a scaled-down version of a document previously published by the UFO Research Coalition of MUFON, Center for UFO Studies and Fund for UFO Research. Running 28 pages, this section of Greer's briefing package makes him liable to charges of plagiarism, a point to which we will return in a moment. Part Three, titled "United States Government Documents Related to UFOs," contains 117 separate documents running a total of more than 300 pages. Most of these documents are in the public domain and will be familiar to any well-read UFO enthusiast. Nonetheless, it is a quite thorough presentation. But Greer's zeal clearly got the better of him regarding the "Best Available Evidence" document. His error was not simply that he copied the document without permission or attribution. He removed the original cover and replaced it with another cover which signified it as a CSETI document. This was grossly dishonest and a show of deplorably bad judgment. Furthermore, CNI News has received a more extended version of the same document, evidently also distributed by Greer during the DC briefings. This version, again with Greer's own cover, reproduces nearly the entire text of the "Unidentified Flying Objects Briefing Document: The Best Available Evidence," which was originally published in 1995 by the UFO Research Coalition with the backing of philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller. The original version was mainly written by Don Berliner, with Antonio Huneeus and Marie Galbraith listed as co-authors. While Greer's version credits Berliner as author, it deletes all reference to the other UFO organizations, the co-authors and Rockefeller, and instead states on the replacement cover: "Concept, Title and Strategy: Steven M. Greer, M.D.; Case Selection: CSETI Project Starlight Team." In a page by page comparison of Greer's document with the original, CNI News found that Greer had taken pains to modify every page of his document slightly -- usually by no more than one or two sentences. Nonetheless, over 90 percent of the text is exactly identical. Thus Greer must be accused of a gross act of plagiarism and violation of copyright. The treachery of this act is compounded by stupidity, in the view of CNI News, in the fact that Greer could have done entirely without this document and had a perfectly adequate set of briefing materials. CNI News has learned that the UFO Research Coalition intends to take legal action against Greer. CNI News considers it highly unfortunate that the Project Starlight Washington DC briefing process has been marred by this infraction on Greer's part. We believe the effort undertaken during April in Washington shows promise of bearing good fruit in the future. We call upon Steven Greer and all CSETI personnel and supporters to hold to the highest standards of integrity in the future, so as not to further compromise their own best intentions and good potential. CNI News will continue to report on this story as further information becomes available. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== Except as otherwise noted, the entire text of CNI News is copyright 1997 by the 2020 Group. As a condition of receiving CNI News, all recipients agree not to post CNI News on any Newsgroup, Web site, BBS or similar electronic location, nor redistribute CNI News by any electronic means, except for the express purpose of encouraging others to subscribe, or unless with prior permission of the editor. In general, electronic posting or redistribution of single articles or short excerpts from CNI News will be approved, provided credit is given to the author and CNI News in every instance. Hard copy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 2 Wackenhut Corporation From: armen victorian <Zius@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:09:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:46:03 -0400 Subject: Wackenhut Corporation Wackenhut Corporation - A Patriot, or a Partner in Executive Crime? The following short essay provide some insight into the activities of Wackenhut Corporation, the Guardians of the famous, restricted Area 51, and many other restricted areas within the US. Wackenhut Corporation has its roots dating abck to 1954, when George Wackenhut and three other former Speicial Agents of the FBI formed a company in Miami. Calling it "Special Agent Investigators", to provide investigative services to the business and industry. Success was as such that, a year later, in 1955, another company was formed. Applying the same philosophy and approach to the physical security problems. Three years later, in 1958, the two companies mereged under the name of Wackenhut Corporation, in Florida. From the outset George Wackenhut was the President and the Chief Executive in the company. He established the headquarters in Coral Gables. By establishing a wholly-owned subsidiary, at the same year, Wackenhut managed to extend his operation of physical security to the United States Government. The "Wackenhut Services, Incorporated" was creatd in this way to comply with federal statute prohibiting the government contracting with companies which provide investigative or detective services. In 1962, Wackenhut extended its operations from Florida to California and Hawaii. Four years later, on january 1, 1966, Wackenhut became an intenational company, with offices in Caracas, Venezuela, through a half ownership of an affiliate. At the same year Wackenhut Corporation became public and in 1967, floated its shares through American Stock Exchange. By then Wackenhut had expanded through its subsidiaries to 20 strong comapnies, and its contracts expanded into several countries, and various territories. It was, then, the single, largest security and investigative firm.. In 1978 by acquisition of NUSAC, a Virginia firm providing technical and consulting services to the nuclear industry, launched Wackenhut into energy and environment management fields. A year later, in 1979, Wackenhut acquired Stellar Systems Incorporation. Stellar Systems Inc., was a firm specialised in outdoor electronic security. The main business objective of the company is to provide security and investigative services, first to the US Government, and then to business, industry, and professional clients. Through Wackenhout Electronics Systems Corporation, it develops, and produces sophisticated computerised security systems to add further edge to its security based services. The major clients of the investigative arm of the Wackenhut are the insurance industryand financial firms. They include insurance inspections, corporate acquisition surveys, personnel background reports, pre-employment screening, polygraph examinations, fraud and arson investigations. The wide array of services offered by Wackenhut Corporation includes guard and electronic security for banks, office buildings, apartments, industrial complexes. Training programmes in English and foreign languages to apply Wackenhut procedures to individual clients needs. Fire safety and protective patrols. Rescue and first aid services, emergency support programmes tailored to labour-managment disputes. Its pre-departure programmes are widely in use by airports and airlines. With about 50,000 armed security guards, and 20,000 employees, plus over 100 offices and facilties, spread acroess the US, extending to Canada, United Kingdom, Western Europe, the Middle East, Indonesia, central and South America and the Caribbean, Wackenhut is a fearsome force, and an implement to please the desires of its clients, especially the US Government. The darker side of Wackenhut's ambitious enterprise, is its direct involvement in illegal and black projects. In the early 1980s, Dr. John Nichols, the Cabazon tribal administrator, by obtaining a Department of Defense secret facility clearance for reservation to conduct various research projects, approached Wackenhut with a detalied joint-venture proposal to manufacture 120mm combustible cartridge cases, 9mm machine guns, laser-sighted assault weapons, snipe rifles, as well as portable rocket-launchers to be built on the Cabazon Reservation, and in Latin America. Amongst this proposals were details to develop biological weapons. Dr. Nichols, born on March 6, 1943, at Loma Linda, California, the son of a prominent Los Angles surgeon, filed an allplication on January 28, 1985, to the Santa Clara County Sheriff's office for a weapon permit. Nichols had invented a submachine gun that he believed was superior to the MAC10. In addition to his californian residency, he had residences in Italy, London, Australia for over twenty years, for business purposes. As a medical doctor he is listed in Zurich, Switzerland. He also worked four years for Harold Okimoto in hawaii, from 1968 to 1972. as Vice President of Perventor Security Center, an intruder electronic firm. In his application for carrying arms, which he was granted for four, and two of them were Colt 0.45 automatic, he mentions the purpose for carrying a concealed weapon as; "I am involved in the research and decvelopment of weapons system, ranging from the basic blowback automatic weapon to various advanced destructive devices. As I have detailed knowledge of the workings of these systsms, I feel it is imperative to have personal protection for myself and for the cgood of community". Nichols corporation, meridian Arms, a subsidiary of Meridian International Logistics, was licensed in California in 1987 to posses and/or transport machine guns under the Permit No. 01678, and to sell machine guns under Permit No. 01677. Meridian International, headed by Nichols had a lucrative business in Australia and Japan. From the partnership between Wackenhut and Nichols, in their Cabazon enterprise, grew a strong bond between the two. Both Wackenhut and Nichols were interested in developing new range of high tech weapons, powerful explosives devices that like a nuclear blast could produce strong electromagnetic pulse to wipe out enemy communication and electronics. The US Government in the course of their Nonlethal weapon reserch and development has shown clear indictation to further development of such weaponry. The list of directors of Meridian Internationa Logistics, Inc. (MIL), included colourful individuals such as Okimoto, for whom Nichos worked in Hawaii [Preventor Security Center], Zokosky and Glenn Shakley, a Board Director of First International Development Corporation (FIDICO), plus Eugene F. Giaquinto, president of MCA (Music Corporation of America) Home Entertainment Division in Universal City. Giaquinto resigned from MIL on May 31, 1988, and returned his 10,000 shares in the company. This was due to investigation carried out of the Los Angles Organised Crime Task Force, headed by Thomas Gates. A May 25, 1988 MIL Board Meeting minutes, reflects Robert Botth Nichols' concern; "Upon meeting with Agent Gates on March 8, 1988, our legal consel, Judge Mark Robinson, interpreted the line of questioning of Agent Gates as having a main focus on the relationship between Robert Nichols and MCA Inc., therefore, due to Mr. Nichols' concern, which Mr. Giaquinto understood and thus stated he would submit written resignation within two days. It was a unanimous decision of the board to remove Mr. Giaquinto from the position of Director of MIL forthwith". Further notes from another Board meeting held in Sherman Oaks on August 26, 1988, clarifies issues concerning MIL's involvement in development of biological weapons; "It was unanimous decision of the Board to draft a letter to the President of an Internationally recognized Medical School in Japan (as referenced in our corporate minutes of April 24, 1988) with regard to our corporation's intention to make available a grant of funds to said school, as the funds become available to our corporation, and under specific terms and conditions". The notes cast more light on the nature of MIL's involvement in this issue; "The phnomenal success in the field of immunotherapueutics by the Immunology Department of said Japanese Medical School has convinced the Board that the exclusive training of qualified physicians under copntract to and the direction of Meridian International Logistics, Inc., would be of great value and benefir to our company and it's shareholders". What these notes do not clarifies is that why a company engaged in arm manufacturing and dealing, with ties to organised crime has an interest in the exclusive training of Japanes physicians in immunobiology. Further investigations unearthed documents which provided more clarifications. The MIL Board Meeting minutes of September 20, 1988 makes a reference to an Agreement of Septmber 14, 1988, in which it does discuss in details an eqaul partnership between three parties; MIL, Ajinomoto Co.,Inc., and Dr. Sheigeyoshi Fujimoto, concerning a "biological technology" patented as" devised technology for induction and activation of Cytotoxic TLymphocytes (CTL), directed to autogenous cancer cells in vitro with high efficacy to utilise a serumfree medium. Through a Japanese Power of Attorney issued to Fujio Kubota, a Japanese lawyer, he was permited to file several patents for registeration of; "The Method for Induction and Activation of Cytotoxic TLymphocytes". The main signatories to the Patent of Sep. 14, 1998, were; Dr. Sheigeyoshi Fujimoto, Takasha Miyamae (Ajinomoto Co., Inc.), Hidetoshoi Onogi (from MIL), Kanechiro Ishida (International Service Center, Inc.), and Takashi Kumakawa from the American Embassy. MIL representative, Hidetoshi Onogi was given full authority on behalf of MIL to negoatiate for "any other documentation pertaining the technical knowledge and the mechanical and/or chemical processes for production of T Cells as are present in the immune system of the human body or any other organism". The presence of a representative from the American Emabssy raises the question as to whether this technology was being develop with the US Government sanction. Furthermore what was the Wackenhut's role in this case? Additionally, what was the interest of Glenn Shockley, a director both on MIL, and FIDCO, a CIA front corporation that offered over three billion dollars to rebuild Beirut to the Lebanese President Amin Gamayel, whose finance chief, Samei el Khouri was an important link in shipping tons of heroin to Sicily, Italy for re-shipment t o US, in thiese affairs. The possible answer lies in a letter, dated Jan. 20, 1983, written on Wackenhut-Cabzon lertterhead by Dr. John P. Nichols, Cabazon Administrator, to Dr. Harry Fair, from Tactical Technology in Arlington, Virginia. In it Nichols mentions that on Feb. 15, 1983, he would prsent "a unique list of agents and production techniques related to biological warfare". After refering to the plan Nichols had sent previously to Dr. Fair concerning Stormemont Laboratories plan which was aimed to provide Dr. Fair with information on biological warfare, Nichols added "....products could be utilised in small countries bordering Albania or large countries bordering Soviet Union". Other documents under the title of "Possible Military Applications Utilising Hybridoma Technology" casts yet more light on Wackenhut-Cabazon inttentions in production of biological weapons; "genesplicing technology provides the ability to produce pathegenic agents, i.e. viruses". It adds "biological weaponry of this nature (both in production and supply) is limited only by the imagination of the scientists". The proposal to Dr. Fair, also included a package for production of appropriate antibodies to detect the presence of such biological pathogens in the combat environment. Dr. Harry Fair's name, (Chief of Propulsion Technology, Applied Sciences Division at Pickitinny Arsenal, New Jersey), crops up in yet another Wackenhut Inter-Office memorandum, dated May 25, 1981. The five page document from Robert Fyre, Vice President of Wackenhut, Idaho, to Robert Chasen, Vice President of Wackenhut in Coral Gables, Florida, [a former Commissioner of US Customs), details Dr. Harry Fair's visit of May 12 and 13, 1981, of the US army Armament Research and Development Command (ARDEC), and discusses Wackenhut's commitment in Cabazon reservation, and the construction of a "Reasearch and Development" facility on Cabazon Indain Reservation to manufacture 120mm. combustible cartridge cases to sell to the US Army, and further sales to NATO, and the Federal republic of Germany. Germany was adopting the use of such cartridges on its Leopard tanks at that time. The study of further documents provides some tantalizing evidence concerning the CIA's involvment in these issues which is not within the scope of this writing, including the supply of weapons to Contras, or the Iraqi government via North Korea. In 1980, Dr. Nichols after obtaining blue print copies of Saudi's Crown Prince Fahd's palace in Tiaf, ventured a scheme to provide security for the palace. Saudis' interest prompted a background investigation on Cabazon. Mohammad Jameel Hashem, consul of the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia in Washingtom DC, wrote a letter to former Senator James Abourzk (SD), at his Washington office "According to our black list for companies, the Cabazon Band of Mission Indians/Cabazon Trading Company and Wackenhut International are not included". In other words there are no Jewish links there. George Wackenhut's right wing tendencies are all too clear in "Wackenhut Security Review" a monthly in house publication, wherein any anti-Vietnam movements were considered subversive, and earned him the George Washington Honor Medal in 1962, and the Freedom Foundation Award at Valley Forge, PA, both in 1965 and 1966. He also received Vigilant Patriot Award from the All American Conference to Combat Communism. In 1965 Wackenhut claimed that it maintained files on over two and half million American people, brandished by Wackenhut as suspect dissidents. In 1966 the numer was increased to four million people after Wackenhut managed to acquire the privte files of Karl Barslaag, a staff member of the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities. Wackenhut repeatedly did and does provide its offices to the CIA when the Agency needs a cover, according to Rishard Babayan, an Arms dealer. This claim is further supported by another Wackenhut employee, Bruce Berckmans, assigned to the CIA's Mexico City station, leaving the Agency in January 1975 to join Wackenhut as its International Operations Vice President. Berckmans claimed to have seen a formal purposal by George Wackenhut to the CIA, offering Wackenhut offices to the CIA worldwide as front for the Agency's activities. According to William Corbett, a terrorism expert, with 18 years career with the CIA, as an Analyst, who joined the ABC News, as a consultant in Europe "For years Wackenhut has been involved with the CIA and other intelligence organizations, including DEA. Wackenhut would allow the CIA to occupy positions within the company in order to carry out clandestine operations". Additionally, Wackenhut provided detailed information to the US intelligence services "in a quid pro quo arrangements". Some of Wackenhut's directors, past and present are: 1. John Ammarell - Former FBI Agent. 2. Robert Chasen - Former FBI Agent. 3. Clarence Kelly - Former FBI Director. 4. Willis Hawkins - Former Assistant Secretary of the Army. 5. Paul X. Kelly - Four star General (ret.), US Marine Corps. 6. Seth McKee - Former Commander in Chief, NORAD. 7. Bernard Schriever - Former member, President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. 8. Frank Carlucci - Former Defense Secretary, and former Deputy Director, CIA. 9. Joseph Carroll - Former Director, Defense Intelligence Agency. 10. James Rawley - Former Director, US Secret Service. 11. Bobby Ray Inman - Former Director, NSA; Deputy Drector, CIA; Director Office of Naval Intelligence. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:19:23 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 00:32:08 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:03:25 -0400 > Are you implying there's >something sleazy about her using another name to protect herself and >her family, as if she somehow profited from it, the way Kathie Lee >Gifford profited from the phony image of her perfect marriage? No. Why on earth would you think so. >Let me repeat this a little differently, so my meaning is perfectly >clear. Linda's reason for keeping her real name to herself is >completely understandable. It's clear what she gains from doing it. >Your reason for printing her name is not understandable. You gain >nothing. At worst, it smacks of a kind of one-upsmanship -- a way of >saying "gotcha! I know who you really are." What has she done to >deserve that? You may find this hard to believe, but at the time I simply didn't think about it one way or the other. Like almost everyone else in the field, I'm aware of her last name, as well as Javier Perez de Cuellar's--the Third Man. Both names may not be common knowledge, but they're damn close. You're right, though--there are a number of other ways that it could have been handled had I had my thinking cap on at the same time that I was trying to make deadline. (The two aren't often compatible.) If this added to Linda's pain and suffering (look, Greg, no quotes!), or even merely her earthly inconvenience, then I apologize for same. But no "gotcha!" was intended. In fact, I have something I wrote about the case coming out in an American publication this month, which will be seen by significantly many more people than the English book, and--I just double-checked--I don't use Linda's last name in it. >Then finally there's your charge about the mail drop. Your rhetorical >charge, I might add, since you know perfectly well what the answer >is. You brought this matter to my attention quite a while ago. I >looked into it, and we discussed what it meant. It isn't a rhetorical charge, it's a rhetorical question--useless now in any event. But when Our Lady of the Sands joined this list she said she would make herself available for questions about her case. Frankly, I wanted to see what she would say about the drop. You can call it a rhetorical charge if you want--I call it a simple litmus test. At the outset of "Witness" (quotes used in place of absent itals), Budd himself says there are only two ways to take the case--great case or great hoax. As you are well aware, I'm hardly alone in at least contemplating the latter possibility, or even a third or fourth one as yet unformulated or perhaps even suspected. Are you saying that no one should at least pursue these other possibilities, or that we should simply do it more tactfully? The question of hoax, of course, hinges on the issue of absolute honesty. If you know of another way to investigate honesty, I'm all ears. As you are also aware, I have been looking into other aspects of the case as well, including the whereabouts of de Cuellar on the night in question. I assume his honesty is also at least partly at issue here, as he has flatly denied any involvement on more than one occasion. Put shortly, someone is telling stories here--although I remain open to the possibility that the Third Man may, in fact, be someone other than de Cuellar. In which case investigators should be trying to find him, and not de Cuellar. Not a minor nor trivial matter. >Yes, Budd Hopkins used a mail drop to send messages to Richard, one >of the supposed witnesses in Linda's abduction case. Yes, the mail >drop was outside Linda's door. Yes, Linda knew it was there. Et cetera and snip. Thanks for posting this, Greg. As I think you agree, it should have been in Budd's book--not necessarily the location, but the admission that Linda knew of its whereabouts. Budd could have avoided any "complications" stemming from the admission the same way you did. But it wasn't there, and the truly interested reader, hoping to find out just what the hell this case *is* really about, is justified in wondering what else might be missing from the public record as well--as Budd's account is presently the only we have. Dennis Finally, as a postscript, I wish you and Budd would stop being so overly protective of poor Linda--and of viewing me as some rapacious wolf lying in wait. (Besides, isn't that Ed's job?) You're both like a couple of fussy mother hens. She's quite capable of taking care of--and speaking for--herself. The last time I saw her, in fact, she had on a Yankee baseball cap and bore more of a resemblance to George Steinbrenner than to a put upon Nervous Nellie or Ms. Riding Hood.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:24:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 01:54:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >David, >What crashed near Roswell was a balloon train of Mylar balloons inflated >with swamp gas, with fireflies glued all over the outside. Several tons >of Army surplus anvils were hung underneath, and as it lost altitude in >a terrible thunderstorm the anvils gouged the earth. Then lightning struck >it and the methane blew up, scattering debris over a wide area. > >The anvils? Oh, nobody wanted to let on since anvils were so valuable to >local ranchers, so they just divvied them up and carried them off. As proof >of this I invite debunkers to visit the ranches in the area. Every damned >one of them has an anvil! What more could you ask for as proof? > >I think this theory makes every bit as much sense as the "official" one. > >Bob Dear Bob, Thank you for giving me the single greatest laugh I've EVER had in reading a piece of mail. After I got over my chuckle, I re-read your "Theory" and MUST admit, it definitely sounds like it certainly contains a large amount of "SWAMP GAS.".......<laughing>.....OH, and I agree it does make as much sense as the "Official" one. In all seriousness though, I do still wonder that nobody has asked this question before as to how a "CRASHED Balloon" of ANY nature could be possibly given as an explanation to Roswell. I'm sorry, but even if they had HURRICANE type winds, the balloon would NOT have been torn apart to place debris all over the place, it still would have remained relatively intact. I believe that many of us are realizing that now, and hence the questions. Thanks Again, Dave (Furry)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Crop Circle Connector - Monday 2nd June 1997 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:13:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 01:44:03 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector - Monday 2nd June 1997 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #22 Members = 1420 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Monday 2nd June 1997. ***************************************** The case of the Disappearing Cameraman Hammering the final nail in the coffin of the Olivers Castle Video! By Peter Sorenson. *************************************** First Crop Circle in the Czech Republic for the 1997 season Read about this first event in Grassland. ***************************************** The OCViD Microlite Mike saw the "Original" footage through John Wheyleigh's Viewfinder New information on the continuing saga of the events om Augustt 11th 1996. ***************************************** An open letter to John Wheyleigh from ilyes ***************************************** Dr Gerald Hawkins Elusive Fifth Theorem! An established Mathematician draws his conclusions on the phenomenon in relation to Maths and Diatonic Ratios. **************************************** A little treat for all you worldwide "Croppies" New MPEG Movie! Journey into the centre of the Julia Set! **************************************** All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 01:01:01 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:16:33 -0500 (CDT) >To: EdKomarek@aol.com >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Ed Komarek and the B&B Affair >Cc: updates@globalserve.net >Dear Ed: >So what I thought was supposed to be a relatively recent >incident now turns >out to have happened five years ago. Way to keep score! Well someone had to start a real investigation and get to the bottom of the matter. If you would have emailed the writer of the post you could have done exactly what I did, got the name and number of the primary witness and got the facts straight. But you did not, you just tried to pin the story on me claiming I invented it. So you forced me to investigate further to clear up the matter which I did by doing a interview with the witness. >And instead of MUFON thugs bursting in with flash cameras >popping, it now >appears that two people turned up on someone's doorstep (if >anything >happened at all), one of whom *may* have been associated >with MUFON, and >were apparently disappointed, and perhaps rude, that the >announced >conference wasn't being held. >This is a far cry from the way this matter was first >presented. >Anyway, an investigation is still under way. You'll criticize >us for this, >no matter what the outcome, but to us it's all wasted time >and >energy--something we have to do to restore our good name >because you posted >the original complaint far & wide and pretended as if it meant >something. >Thanks! Well finally you seem to have recognized that it was not my complaint at all. As far as spreading it far and wide I think you did that by the poor way you reacted to this whole affair. Nothing like a good feud to get everybodies attention. >To the best of Walt Andrus's knowledge, MUFON did not even >have a state >section director in Waco five years ago. But we'll continue to >look into the >matter and let everyone know what, if anything, we find. As >stated before, >if we find any evidence whatsoever that anyone even remotely >associated with >MUFON was involved in this incident, we will immediately >issue a public >apology to that effect. I should hope so. I just called Walt and gave him the ladies name and number, confidentially, so he could talk to her and confirm my interview with her. Walt knows this person and agrees with me that she is a good person. >However, even if the incident should have happened exactly as >described in >the most recent version you've posted, it should be obvious to >everyone >(except perhaps yourself) that such actions hardly constitute >MUFON >policy--otherwise cyberspace would be buzzing with similar >complaints, >especially since five years have now come and gone. Lets be clear here that I have only posted one version under my name and that was the telephone interview with the person directly and in detail. BB Ryders versions were his alone! >I suspect your source--this someone who no one locally has >ever heard of, >yet who somehow managed nonetheless to attract all these >important officials >to her B&B--is suffering from self-imposed illusions of both >grandeur and >paranoia. I think this speculation will be proved false soon enough after Walt talks to the lady. >We do predict, though, that she won't be able to find the >business card of >the individual involved (and why anyone hellbent on insulting >and/or >terrorizing someone would leave their business card behind >still escapes >me); we also predict that she (he?) won't even be able to >remember the >*name* of the individual supposedly involved, either--so that >you or anyone >else will be able to contact them for their side of the story. I have no idea what the motivations of such a person might be and why they would leave a card. >And aren't both sides of the story what we're really after? Or >would you >prefer not to hear ours? >Dennis Dennis, the problem here is that at least I took the time to email BB Ryder and get the name and number of the person involved. I am even cooperating in the investigation by giving the name and number in confidence to Walt. What have you done other than confuse the whole affair and slam me for a story put out by BB Ryder. I haven't seen you hardly even mention this person. My personal interview and post I will stand by as stated. If their are any errors they would be small. The fact is you made this mountain out of a molehill by going after me. As I said before I would have been glad to have published MUFONs response in the Bulletin and that would have been end of story. But by attacking me so vigorously and falsely attributing BB's posts to me in order to attack me is what stirred up this ruckus. Then on top of this to say I that make up the story that was just too much. I would suggest in the future that you reply to posts like BB Ryders in this manner: We are not aware of such and such event but we are opening a internal investigation to see if it has validity. We will forward a report to you from MUFON as soon as we have completed this investigation that you may then publish. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. ----- If You and MUFON would have simply done this, MUFONs reputation would have been enhanced not harmed. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) ------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter. ----------------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: edkomarek | dstacy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Clive Nadin?? From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 01:38:59 -0400 Subject: Clive Nadin?? I was just wondering if anyone could tell a little about Clive Nadin? A little background, what he's accomplished and where and what he is doing now. Thank you, kindly. .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Ma! He's not posting my stuff to the List!!! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:30:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:30:28 -0400 Subject: Ma! He's not posting my stuff to the List!!! The rules below are few and simple - yet some subscribers don't want to play by them. The result? Messages don't get posted. ebk _____________________________________________ Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------ So there!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:18:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:26:35 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:25:07 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >Joseph Trainor wrote: >>From: Masinaigan@aol.com >>Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:55:26 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 > UFO ROUNDUP >>Volume 2, Number 22 >>June 1, 1997 >>Editor: Joseph Trainor > >On Saturday, May 24, 1997, at 10 p.m., while >>watching the Memorial Day weekend fireworks display at >>Doreny Park in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (population >>70,419), B.J. Makwah noticed "a bright red light in the >>sky" about one mile (1.6 kilometers) behind the exploding >>skyrockets. "Crowds of people began watching the red >>light. The light got smaller, but you could still see it. >>Then it sped off really fast. This was no airplane." >>(USENET Report) ========================================================================= >These are just two examples of where lights seemed to have attracted >an extraterrestrial audience. Maybe no small wonder when you consider >how UFOs have been confounding us with their aerial displays for many >years. >Are there any other examples out there? >Regards, >Don Ledger ========================================================================= Hiya Don, hi All, If I'm not mistaken, one of CSETI's main field techniques involves using bright lights (sometimes waved about in the sky to trace out a triangle pattern) to attract UFO's. I have no idea how many of the 'reported' cases involve UFO's attracted to earth based lights, but CSETI got the notion from somewhere. If there's anyone out there who can shed a little light on how or why this particular technique is employed I'd be real interested in hearing it. Interesting observation Don, maybe someone familiar with this technique will respond. Obviously someone at CSETI is convinced that there (is) a justification for attracting them (UFO's) by using lights at night. John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons From: Ricardo Varela Correa <ricardo@das.inpe.br> Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 03:47:32 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 00:58:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons I am following the Mogul project hyphotesis for the Roswell crash in this forum, so i would like to add some more information that caN contribute to this discussion. Since I am a balloon specialist, and refering to this hypothesis I would like to add a few things. 1 - The payload of the Mogul project would carry special films to measure possible Soviet nucs detonation. (An energetic particle would leave a trace on it). THe payloads of this project would weight around 300Kg and at that time the US Navy did not use a parachute, and if the balloon burst on the way down, it would make a considerable mess in the ground. 2 - At that time the payload would descend with the balloon. Near the ground, pressure switches would deploy batteries and antenna, to reduce the descend speed. 3 - THe balloons could explode(although is a very small possibility, since as it ascend, looses all the gas), as the Mogul project used hidrogen - now NSBF(National Scientific Balloon Facility) uses helium. 4 - The balloon film gets brittle when it passes the tropopause and if the place were it lands is windy, it will shatter small pieces of film all around the area. 5 - The MOgul project carried heavy special emulssion films that were separated by lead sheets. They were heavy - 200 - 500 Kg. If the descent speed is high, it could have made the gouge described by Mr Brazel.(the same idea were used to detect in 24 may 1947, and prove the existence of the meson-pi, in Bolivia) 6 - The properties of the material described by Maj.Marcel are the key to exclude and dismiss the hypothesis that the Roswell debries were a balloon carrying a payload of the Mogul project. I hope this info will add more "spices" to the discussion. regards INPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPE I I=20 N Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais N P Setor de Lan=E7amento de baloes P E Ricardo Varela Correa E I Av. dos Astronautas 1758 I N J.Granja N=20 P S.J.Campos - SP 12.227-010 P E Brasil E I fone:(012) 345-6749 I N fax : 345-6750 N P P=20 E http://crux.das.inpe.br/slb/slb.html E I http://crux.das.inpe.br/slb/ufo.html I N http://crux.das.inpe.br/slb/congress/forum.htm N P P EINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINP=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:29:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 01:40:30 -0400 Subject: Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! List, It appears Charles B. Moore, the former member of Project Mogul is writing his own work on Roswell! This is really getting to be too much! Here's the URL where I found the information if you're interested: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1560987510/6116-2342924-746591 Thanks, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:07:46 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:01:16 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:27:21 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and the B & B Affair >I very much agree. I am glad you are making these posts to give some >balance. MUFON is a good organization but it could be much better if more >valid internal criticism were allowed. The MUFON Journal is the heart of the >organization because through it the membership is informed. Unfortunately >letters to the editor and articles that criticize MUFON, its policies, its >leadership etc. rarely if ever get published by Dennis Stacy. I think you need to go back and leaf through the Journal again, Ed. You are a subscriber, aren't you? I've published several articles and letters critical of MUFON, its research and policies over the years, although you probably wouldn't recognize some of them (Stuart Appelle's 4 and 1/2 page article in the March 1997 issue, for example) as such. >I think that at least a page or two in the Journal should be allotted to >internal dialogue where problems and potential problems can be discussed and >dealt with in the open. It's called the letters to the editor section, or the MUFON Forum. You might be shocked to learn, despite the fact that my PO Box is listed in almost every issue, that I don't get that many complaints from members and readers. >I think MUFON should have high standards and if these standards are violated >no matter by who on the local or national level these individuals should be >censored and if necessary removed. I agree. And I suppose that this is also ORTK policy, and that their newsletter routinely gives over a couple of pages to internal complaints, too. Ditto CUFOS's "IUR." Since this is your idea, however, perhaps you'd be willing to see to it that at least one or two emails on your own online bulletin "be allotted to internal dialogue where problems and potential problems can be discussed and dealt with in the open"? You can start with some of my posts to this list if you're short of material. What I really wonder, though, is why you care at all. Are you a member of MUFON, Ed? Don't you have your own organization you can spend all of your spare time on--and make it that much better in the process, or is it already made perfect by your presence? >MUFONs present leadership position seems to be shoot the messenger of bad >tidings. Draw the wagons into a circle and hunker down in defense. This is >not a constructive way to deal with criticism. Three short sentences and virtually every word in them is either wrong on its face or misconstrued to your advantage. What is true is that I personally have decided that your drivel is not going to go unanswered on this list. I don't know what you've got against MUFON--or why--but I'm not going to let you get away with a personal vendetta under the name of legitimate honest criticism. Making a mountain out of a molehill that may or may not have happened half a decade ago has nothing to do with anything remotely resembling well intended "criticism" for the benefit of MUFON, ufology, or anyone else, except perhaps your own personal self-aggrandizement. This is NOT the same as saying that MUFON is immune to, refuses to listen to, or rejects out of hand, legitimate criticism. >It should not be years before a incident is investigated as in this B & B >matter and then only after a battle on the internet. The fact of the matter is that what you think is some sort of major screw-up on MUFON's part is an isolated event that, if it happened as described, happened five years ago, and involved two people, who may or may not have belonged to MUFON. Worse, we never heard of it until now, so how the hell did you expect us to investigate it previously? >I certainly hope he does not treat this witness as he has treated me. That depends on whether the so-called witness treats me like you tried to. >I don't know what the present situation is but in my opinion this Waco >section director could still be doing a lot of damage. Walt doesn't remember us having a state section director in Waco in 1992. But if you have a name, post it, and quit wringing your hands in public. To imply that he "could still be doing a lot of damage" when it hasn't yet been demonstrated that he's done *any* damage is typical of your approach. >My question is why let situations like this go uninvestigated and unresolved? > If we are to have a strong effective organization these internal problems >must be exposed and dealt with quickly unless they do great harm to the whole >organization. The answer to your first question is that hardly anyone gives a flying flip about what may or may not have happened five years ago, except you, who are apparently obsessed by such trivia. If it were emblematic of MUFON behavior, if we had people coming out of the woodwork complaining, "Hey, they interrupted my abductee meeting, too!" you might have something. But we know that's not the way MUFON works--or at least everyone knows but yourself. As for responsibly resolving it, that's exactly what we're now trying to do--at a considerable waste of resources that could be better spent--because you, yes, *you*, Mr. Ed, and you alone, raised such a stink and ruckus about it in the first place. As for your second sentence, what do you mean "we," pale face? Are you a dues-paying MUFON member? >MUFON's membership has essentially stagnated over the years while the >interest in UFOs has steadily increased. Why? MUFON should have at least 20 >to 30 thousand members by now. >The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) And on a good, sunny day, ORTK ought to have a hundred, right? Fact is, you're spouting stuff again as if you know what you're talking about when you have no evidence to back up any of your assertions whatsoever. So let's use real facts and see where we stand. When I began editing the MUFON Journal in 1985, MUFON membership was at about a thousand. In ten years, we've basically quintupled, to 5000, although numbers may fluctuate by several hundred in any given month. Now compare MUFON to--what? CUFOS presently has less than a thousand members, few of which are actual field investigators. Would you care to tell us how many members ORTK has? My guess would be that half or more are probably MUFON members as well, and I suspect the same is probably true of CUFOS, too. UFO magazine has a circulation of less than 15,000 last time I looked--and asks its "members" to do nothing more strenuous than read each issue when it comes out, which is once every two months. That MUFON has been able to attract 4-5000 activists I consider a tribute rather than a cause for denigration, as you apparently do. The fact is, as interest in UFOs has increased, so have the outlets for information and expression regarding same. Five years ago there wasn't a single Web page devoted to UFOs; now there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, all virtually free for the asking. More UFO books have been published this year than in any year I can remember. More MUFON state organizations are publishing their own newsletters than ever before. In short, while interest is higher, so is the "competition" for the individual's attention, time, energy, money and commitment. That MUFON has been able to attract and maintain the support of some 5000 people in this day and age, despite the distractions and competition, I consider a minor, if not major, marvel. But then I'm prejudiced. Unlike Ed. Put bluntly, we must be doing something right, although no one would ever suspect that from reading Komarek. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 International Skywatch Weekend From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:52:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 10:21:35 -0400 Subject: International Skywatch Weekend Dear colleagues, On the weekend of 30-31 August 1997, thousands of UFO enthusiasts will once again particpate in a UFO Skywatch promoted by UFO Magazine [UK]. Last year, dozens of organisations took part in the first national event of its kind here in Britain and despite unseasonal weather, in the majority of instances most agreed it was was an exercise well worth repeating. Although the 1996 Skywatch was predominantly an all British affair, many overseas groups and individuals took it upon themselves to stage a Skywatch that same weekend. If any overseas groups wish to participate and have not already contacted us so that your group name, address and contact details can feature free of charge in our impending July/August issue of UFO Magazine, could they please send relevant details a.s.a.p. A full list will also appear on our WWW site. Teams of volunteers will be manning our telephones round the clock from 9.00pm Friday (29 August) until the early hours of Sunday ready to pass on information at a moment's notice. Data will also be routed via E-mail. All participating groups will be sent a "Skywatch Information Pack" which includes useful advice, safety guidelines and report forms if required (this will be sent Air Mail to overseas groups). Media enquiries last year were routed to the relevant group organisers and this in turn led to excellent, locally generated, publicity and newcomers joining their ranks. It's my firm opinion that well-organised Skywatches can and do play a constructive part in educating people about aircraft, meteorological phenomena, space junk, satellites, aircraft, planets, stars & meteors etc, provided someone is prepared to devote time to sharing their knowledge of such matters. Last year, it was incredible to think that as thousands of eyes scanned the skies here in Britain, others were similarly engaged as far afield as Scandinavia, Holland, Malta, Spain and Australia. It would be nice to think we can expand on that. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Clive Nadin?? From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 10:22:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Clive Nadin?? > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:16:15 -0400 (EDT) > From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Clive Nadin > I was just wondering if anyone could tell a little about Clive Nadin? > A little background, what he's accomplished and where and what he is > doing now. Clive and Claire Nadin came to Canada in about 1985 (?). Clive began investigating cases in and around the Ottawa area and also was keenly interested in tracking down government files. In the late 1980s, he collected hundreds of cases from the NRC files and meticulously sorted them and categorized them for use by other researchers. He was one of the first Canadian researchers to collaborate with others on producing an annual analysis/survey of Canadian UFO reports. Clive also was one of the first recipients of the infamous "Guardian" hoax documents. He was the *first* investigator to go to the alleged landing site of the UFO "crash" in the late 1980s. He found nothing, of course, and later described trudging through the boglike regions and interviewing dozens of people living in and around Carp, to no avail. His conclusion, even back then, was that the Guardian docs were nothing more than annoying hoaxes perpetrated by someone wishing to muddy the already murky waters of ufology. Clive and Claire returned to the United Kingdom in about 1990 (?), and at last word were in Wales. I don't know if he kept up his UFO research.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Say's From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Jun 97 10:19:59 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 10:43:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Say's >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:59:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Say's Hi Ed, >>My, my, my...Ed. When I read your post regarding George >>Filer as testifing before the staff members of congress...I >>wanted to vomit. >HI Linda, good to see your post on Filer, maybe that will stir up some >discussion. At least on UpDates both sides of the story can be heard and >argued. I was very surprised by the exchange about George Filer. I've gotten to know George very well, and he certainly is no generic debunker. He does not believe in Linda's story, but even she must admit that this is a very difficult story to believe. George has been a great help to me in my research on the AA film, and never once have I had the feeling that he was trying to steer things toward a debunking. Disbelieving in an incredible case does not make someone a debunker. On a different topic: >Kent is like a general who gathers support and takes a leadership role into >battle only to say I don't believe in this war anymore right when his people >are getting shot to pieces. To go public at this critical time in Roswell >history is just outrageous for someone in a leadership position. Such >timing could hardly be a coincidence. >There will be those that argue that Ed is jumping the gun here. That we >haven't yet seen a public statement. I say by the time we see a public >statement the damage in the press will already have been done. Fine time >then to argue the case.! In this situation I say bite first and ask >questions later. I am so tired of debunkers getting the benefit of the doubt >when real witnesses get hammered over and over. >Any responsible leader would have kept his personal opinions to himself at >least till after the battle. If he had any reservations whatever he never >should have taken a leadership role. I like many others feel that our trust >has been betrayed by this man. Very well said, Ed. If Kent Jeffrey has lost his confidence in the Roswell event, then he has an obligation to keep his damned mouth shut. I am outraged by this man, who has produced nothing productive in UFO research, and now seems poised to destroy the one positive and productive thing he had a chance to do. His debunking attempt, pathetic as it was, of the AA film in the MUFON Journal should have tipped his hand to anyone halfway paying attention a long time ago. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:49:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons >Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 03:47:32 -0300 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: Ricardo Varela Correa <ricardo@das.inpe.br> >Subject: Mogul Balloons > 1 - The payload of the Mogul project would carry special films to measure >possible Soviet nucs detonation. (An energetic particle would leave a trace >on it). THe payloads of this project would weight around 300Kg and at that >time the US Navy did not use a parachute, and if the balloon burst on the >way down, it would make a considerable mess in the ground. Such large, heavy payloads weren't used on the Mogul project for radiation detection until some time later. But in June/July 1947, they were using balloons with much less lift to carry special microphones to detect the sound of an A-blast. The total payload, I believe did not exceed 25 pounds, most of it being sand ballast. >2 - At that time the payload would descend with the balloon. Near the >ground, pressure switches would deploy batteries and antenna, to reduce the >descend speed. I wouldn't know about this. On these early Moguls, a pressure switch was supposed to set off a small explosive charge to cut the payload loose from the main balloon train so that it could parachute to earth. >3 - THe balloons could explode(although is a very small possibility, since >as it ascend, looses all the gas), as the Mogul project used hidrogen - now >NSBF(National Scientific Balloon Facility) uses helium. As far as I know they used exclusively helium. There are notes in Mogul logs for this period of picking up new helium cannisters. Therefore, there would be no hydrogen gas that could explode. > 4 - The balloon film gets brittle when it passes the tropopause and if the > place were it lands is windy, it will shatter small pieces of film all >around the area. It shouldn't stay brittle, however, once it descends and gets back into warm air. And if it shattered at high altitude, the debris would be very widely scattered. >5 - The MOgul project carried heavy special emulssion films that were > separated by lead sheets. They were heavy - 200 - 500 Kg. If the descent >speed is high, it could have made the gouge described by Mr Brazel.(the > same idea were used to detect in 24 may 1947, and prove the existence of >the meson-pi, in Bolivia) This is interesting, but from the existing documentation it appears such Mogul flights with these heavier payloads didn't happen until much later. The payloads were much lighter on these early Moguls. Therefore, no significant gouging of the ground should have occurred. >6 - The properties of the material described by Maj.Marcel are the key to > exclude and dismiss the hypothesis that the Roswell debries were a balloon > carrying a payload of the Mogul project. I certainly agree with you here. The resemblance to balloon debris was superficial, but the physical properties were clearly very different. And more people than Major Marcel described the same thing. It couldn't have been just one man's lie or aberration. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Larry Warren on UK TV From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 04:37:55 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:37:44 -0400 Subject: Larry Warren on UK TV For those interested Larry Warren, co-author of 'Left At East Gate', will be appearing on Channel 5 in the UK this Thursday the 5th of June. He will be taking part in a show called Five's Company and people are welcome to phone the show with UFO sightings etc. The show is on air from 2-3.30 and the telephone number is: 0171 691 5000. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 "...CNI News article is filled with falsehoods" - From: "Steven M. Greer M.D." <Dr_ET@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:05:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:47:49 -0400 Subject: "...CNI News article is filled with falsehoods" - REPLY TO MICHAEL LINDEMANN/CNI ARTICLE 3 June 1997 We are in receipt of the Michael Lindemann/CNI News article regarding the April 9, 1997 briefings in Washington DC. It is unfortunate that Mr. Lindemann decided to write and distribute such an article without first consulting with CSETI regarding the numerous false accusations mentioned therein. The Lindemann/CNI News article is filled with falsehoods, poorly researched information and egregious and libelous statements regarding the Best Available Evidence briefing document. Lindemann never called or wrote to me or CSETI to ascertain the facts of the matter before publishing statements which are defaming, false and blatantly inaccurate. Lindemann/CNI News specifically accuses me of plagiarism - and worse - and these defaming statements cannot go unanswered. Without checking the facts of the matter with me directly, he has chosen to repeat falsehoods regarding the document in question. Regarding the Best Available Evidence document (hereinafter referred to as the BAE), the following are the facts related to its creation, concept, title, development and use: >After beginning the CSETI Project Starlight UFO/ETI disclosure effort in the summer of 1993, I was invited to a meeting at Mr. Laurance Rockefeller's JY Ranch near Jackson Hole WY, where I met Mrs Marie (Bootsie) Galbraith. I shared with Ms. Galbraith and the others gathered there our plans regarding collecting the Best Available Evidence regarding UFOs and our plans to provide briefings for world leaders and the public on the subject. >Mrs. Galbraith indicated a keen interest in assisting with this effort. Subsequently I provided to her, to Mr. Rockefeller and to the BSW Foundation a full complement of our plans, strategy and an outline of the BAE, including inclusion and exclusion criteria for cases, the title 'Best Available Evidence', the concept and strategy for its use, etc. > For nearly 2 years we collaborated on this matter, and CSETI continued to provide consultation and strategic input. In addition to my creating the title, concept , criteria and strategy for the use of the BAE, I flew to New York to meet with Galbraith et al and spent considerable time discussing specific cases to be selected for the BAE. Additionally, numerous hours were spent via long distance telephone discussing the BAE with Mrs. Galbraith and in selecting specific cases to be used. >Subsequently, Mrs. Galbraith and BSW Foundation, with funding assistance from Mr. Rockefeller and others, offered to take on the task of completing and writing the BAE. The BAE was to be a collection of classic, if traditional, UFO cases of strong evidential integrity. It was decided that my efforts should go into obtaining extraordinary evidence and deep cover first-hand military and intelligence data and witness testimony. >It was always the explicit and repeatedly stated intention of Mrs. Galbraith, BSW, Mr. Rockefeller and CSETI to create a BAE which would be a PUBLIC DOMAIN, NON-COPYRIGHTED DOCUMENT which would be used to brief VIPs, world and national leaders. We worked, without compensation and freely in good faith, to create such a BAE document. >Subsequently, BSW and Mrs. Galbraith hired Don Berliner and Antonio Huneus to work on writing the BAE, although Berliner was the primary paid writer/researcher. >In the fall of 1995, some 2 years after first providing the concept, title, strategy etc to Mrs. Galbraith et al, she mailed me a NON- COPYRIGHTED Best Available Evidence document to be used for briefing leaders as stated above. We SPECIFICALLY AND EXPLICITLY DISCUSSED THE USE OF THIS JOINTLY CREATED DOCUMENT AS A PERMANENTLY NON- COPYRIGHTED, PUBLIC DOMAIN DOCUMENT. Mrs. Galbraith re-iterated Mr. Rockefellers intent to have this document become a briefing tool to be freely used for its intended purpose - a purpose and concept originated by me personally. > Unfortunately, subsequent to this, Mrs. Galbraith, in collaboration with the so-called and newly formed UFO Research Coalition attempted to seize this jointly created BAE document, copyright it, and restrict its use, in clear and reprehensible violation of the spirit of how the document was created. In doing so, Mrs. Galbraith violated our working agreement, and further violated her arrangement with the founder and principal of BSW foundation, a long time friend of Mrs. Galbraith. >Both the principal of BSW and CSETI protested this extraordinary and divisive act, but Mrs. Galbraith and the UFO Research Coalition persisted in this behavior. I wrote Mr. Rockefeller personally informing him of this treachery. I further informed him that we intended to use the BAE document, which I originated and named and for which I selected many of the cases, in the manner which he - and all of us - had intended: as a non- copyrighted, public domain document, jointly created in good faith, to be used for educating world leaders on the UFO subject. No corrective instructions were ever sent to us regarding this clearly stated position. >Subsequently, an historic gathering was convened in Washington DC on April 9, 1997 at which a number of congressional offices, congressmen and other VIPs were present. As part of the materials provided, this non-copyrighted, public domain BAE was presented as a complete document, as well as an executive summary in the larger CSETI Briefing Document ( a separate item) which was given to the VIPs in attendance. This use is wholly in keeping with the spirit and stated purpose behind the collaborative creation of the BAE document. It was not, nor has it ever been, sold by CSETI, contrary to false and defaming statements made by others. This BAE clearly stated that it was written by Berliner, so how could it have been plagiarized? Unfortunately, if appears that Lindemann does not even know the definition of the word, since it requires the taking of another's written material and without crediting the writer, claiming to have written it. On the title page, we did also credit CSETI and myself for the title, strategy , concept etc, and it is wholly appropriate that we did so, since it is the documented truth. >The CSETI Briefing Document which currently is available for purchase does not contain any part or reference to this BAE document. We have behaved entirely ethically and within our rights in this matter, and, unlike other parties who have aggrieved us, have refused to try to seize this BAE document, copyright it, or make plans for its sale. >At this juncture, due to the unpleasantness of the entire matter, we are not even providing this document gratis to VIPs who should receive it. > I should point out that the principal of BSW, who provided significant funding (along with Mr. Rockefeller) for the writing of the BAE, has been quite concerned over the attempt to seize and copyright the document. Notwithstanding the fact that BSW partially funded the document, Mrs. Galbraith and the so-called UFO Research Coalition will not even allow BSW to purchase copies of the document for free distribution to VIPs and world leaders. >Lindemann/CNI News also falsely claims that I altered the BAE document to make it look like it was written by me. This is completely false: the BAE document, except for the title page which was changed to reflect the true, above stated origins and credits, was provided to the VIPs with only very minor and occassional changes from the original given to CSETI by Mrs. Galbraith. The above is a true and factual account of this matter. There are multiple witnesses and dated documents which support these facts. It is profoundly regrettable that Lindemann/CNI News failed to engage in due diligence to ascertain these facts prior to publishing the false, defaming and libelous article in question. Beyond this , it is regrettable that, rather than working cooperatively as we had all agreed, these elements within the UFO community have instead chosen to attempt to obstruct the process of world education on the subject. As a physician, scientist and researcher who has foregone nearly a million dollars in his income and assets to do this work, it is distressing to see such venal and destructive behavior from some in the UFO arena . I suppose it has ever been thus: Were it otherwise, the dangerous and erosive secrecy surrounding this subject could have been reversed long ago. In the Lindemann/CNI News article, Lindemann states that I am "grossly dishonest" , am possessed of "deplorably bad judgement", am a "plagiarist" who acted with "stupidity" and that I acted with "treachery". These are serious, defaming, false and libelous comments. Mr. Lindemann and CNI News must publish a full retraction and apology, or appropriate actions will be taken against Mr. Lindemann and CNI News and any others engaged in similar defaming and libelous behavior. I have watched for 18 months as the BAE document was seized, misrepresented by many as originating from Galbraith et al and generally used in bad faith by those who falsely lay claim to it. As a gentleman and as a person who sincerely wishes for the general advancement of the UFO subject, I have chosen, up to now, to be restrained on this matter. But the appearance of such libelous and defaming comments in a publication and on the internet cannot and must not go unanswered. It would appear that our forbearance and restraint has only emboldened those elements in the UFO 'community' who act out of malice and jealousy and who appear to wish to derail the historic events and momentum of the CSETI Project Starlight effort. Until Lindemann/CNI News decided to besmirch my name, I was content to 'grin and bear it', and take a patient view towards this controversy. I can no longer take this approach and leave these charges unanswered since an attack this vicious and this public simply cannot go unanswered. I recommend that the public refer to the CSETI Report on the DC Briefings, available from CSETI and also located on the CSETI website (www.cseti.org). This reply constitutes my official public response on this matter, and further inquiries will be referred to this document. This matter has also been referred to legal counsel for appropriate remedies. Meanwhile, historic and promising developments continue with the CSETI Project Starlight disclosure strategy. Those working with us in Washington report significant interest and progress from key leaders and we remain hopeful that the day will soon come when the truth will be known, and the Congress will permit full and open hearings on the UFO subject. If they do so, I have identified over 125 first-hand witnesses who can be subpoenaed and who can testify under oath. This will constitute a definitive disclosure on the subject - a subject about which every American and every citizen of the earth deserves to know the truth. Steven M. Greer M.D. Director of CSETI PO Box 15401 Asheville NC 28813
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 UFO 'Hot Spots'? From: drjackryan@juno.com (John P Ryan) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 14:12:05 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:05:07 -0400 Subject: UFO 'Hot Spots'? To all: Does anyone have a list or related information on any of the "UFO HOT SPOTS" for the following states.... (Virginia, Ohio, Maryland, Nevada?) If you have any information on possible crashes or daily hot spots in these states, or any helpful information about these states please e-mail me. Thanks, Jack
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons From: BGBOPPER@aol.com [Russ Estes] Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:01:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons In a message dated 97-06-03 09:22:30 EDT, you write: << > Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 03:47:32 -0300 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: Ricardo Varela Correa <ricardo@das.inpe.br> >Subject: Mogul Balloons >I am following the Mogul project hyphotesis for the Roswell crash in this >forum, so i would like to add some more information that caN contribute to >this discussion. Since I am a balloon specialist, and refering to this >hypothesis I would like to add a few things. >1 - The payload of the Mogul project would carry special films to measure >possible Soviet nucs detonation. (An energetic particle would leave a trace >on it). THe payloads of this project would weight around 300Kg and at that >time the US Navy did not use a parachute, and if the balloon burst on the >way down, it would make a considerable mess in the ground. It seems quiet clear that you have no concept of what the project Mogul balloons were. They carried a payload of no more than 25 lbs. and non of that poundage was in film of cameras. > 2 - At that time the payload would descend with the balloon. Near the >ground, pressure switches would deploy batteries and antenna, to reduce the >descend speed. No Batteries, No Pressure switches, and NO Antenna! Just some simple ballest, a sonobouy Mic... simple transmitter... and Raywin targets! > 3 - THe balloons could explode(although is a very small possibility, since >as it ascend, looses all the gas), as the Mogul project used hidrogen - now >NSBF(National Scientific Balloon Facility) uses helium. Mogul never used Hidrogen (Your spelling).... They were common Helium Balloons! >4 - The balloon film gets brittle when it passes the tropopause and if the >place were it lands is windy, it will shatter small pieces of film all >around the area. The target level for the project was a theoretical accoustic channel BELOW the Troposphere. >5 - The MOgul project carried heavy special emulssion films that were >separated by lead sheets. They were heavy - 200 - 500 Kg. If the descent >speed is high, it could have made the gouge described by Mr Brazel.(the >same idea were used to detect in 24 may 1947, and prove the existence of >the meson-pi, in Bolivia) NOPE!!! Wrong again! Check it out ... 25 lbs max.. Dats it! >6 - The properties of the material described by Maj.Marcel are the key to >exclude and dismiss the hypothesis that the Roswell debries were a balloon >carrying a payload of the Mogul project. All of the info that I have posted came from Prof. Chas. Moore who worked on the NYU Balloon Project aka Project Mogul in 1947. >I hope this info will add more "spices" to the discussion. Well it centainly added something... mostly bad information! >regards >INPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPEINPE >I >> If you are a Balloon specialist as you claim, I think that you should check your facts before you post them. Regards, R.Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons >Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 03:47:32 -0300 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: Ricardo Varela Correa <ricardo@das.inpe.br> >Subject: Mogul Balloons >I am following the Mogul project hyphotesis for the Roswell crash in this >forum, so i would like to add some more information that caN contribute to >this discussion. Since I am a balloon specialist, and refering to this >hypothesis I would like to add a few things. >1 - The payload of the Mogul project would carry special films to measure >possible Soviet nucs detonation. (An energetic particle would leave a trace >on it). THe payloads of this project would weight around 300Kg and at that >time the US Navy did not use a parachute, and if the balloon burst on the >way down, it would make a considerable mess in the ground. The fact that the Navy might or might not have had something is irrelevant because the Navy was not involved in Mogul. The payload of the Mogul flights was 10 or 11 Kg. There is no way for it to carry something as heavy as 300 Kg. [snip] >3 - THe balloons could explode(although is a very small possibility, since >as it ascend, looses all the gas), as the Mogul project used hidrogen - now >NSBF(National Scientific Balloon Facility) uses helium. Everyone associated with Mogul said they used Helium and not Hydrogen. Helium does not explode. >4 - The balloon film gets brittle when it passes the tropopause and if the >place were it lands is windy, it will shatter small pieces of film all >around the area. But it will still be light weight rubberized material which will cut, burn and bend. >5 - The MOgul project carried heavy special emulssion films that were >separated by lead sheets. They were heavy - 200 - 500 Kg. If the descent >speed is high, it could have made the gouge described by Mr Brazel.(the >same idea were used to detect in 24 may 1947, and prove the existence of >the meson-pi, in Bolivia) While this might be true of some flights, the June 4 flight did not. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Mogul Balloons & Foil-like Material From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:21:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:57:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons & Foil-like Material Regarding... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:03:26 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons & Foil-like Material Dave Rudiak wrote: >Charles Moore in his A.F. interview vaguely remembered that they >started experimenting with mylar as a balloon material around 1950. >But he was quite firm that nothing like that was available in 1947. Dave, It seems that's the case. >>Although this foil-rubber material sounds like it might be material >>from a balloon, the balloon trains consisted of neoprene and >>Bessie's description doesn't seem to be consistent with that. >I'm glad you recognize that. I've been pointing out this >inconsistency for what seems like centuries now. There are only certain possibilities; either Bessie's description confuses neoprene and separate foil-like material, it's an accurate description and describes terrestrial material which hasn't been identified, or it wasn't terrestrial at all. Judging by her overall comments, it was wreckage from an object which resembled a balloon, as she notes. Which seems to leave only two options. With no obvious candidate for the double-sided, foil-rubber material, it could well be that when first interviewed in 1979, Bessie's recollections were not entirely reliable, some 30 years later. There's also of course Mac Brazel's corroborative testimony, as originally carried in the Roswell Daily Record on 9 July, 1947. It's recorded that Brazel described " tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks" and reportedly confirmed "at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument although there were letters on some of the parts". Significantly, as you appreciate, it's also stated he claimed, "Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No string or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used". This matches what Bessie Brazel Schreiber says she was shown by Mac, i.e., "sticks, like kite sticks, attached to some of the pieces with a whitish tape" and "tape [which] was about two or three inches wide and had flower-like designs on it". As for any suggestions that Brazel's testimony had now been influenced by the military, that doesn't seem to equate and apparently he wasn't sufficiently intimidated to prevent it being reported, "he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these". If Brazel had been "encouraged" to support the weather balloon story, doesn't it seem odd he would be allowed to say that no string or wires were evident and that he would also be fed a story about tape with flower-like designs and "letters on some of the parts"? If it was a pre-ordained script, why not keep it simple? >Another problem is that Schreiber said some of the pieces were still >attached to sticks. That means it couldn't be a balloon, but would >have to come from a radar reflector. I concur. This tends to support the premise that some of Bessie's recollections are not completely reliable. It should perhaps be expected, she was only 12 years old at the time. >Another problem is that Shreiber failed to mention any foil backed >with paper. Again, the description doesn't seem to match. She did recall, "there was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil", which certainly sounds more like balloon wreckage than an ET spaceship. >Nor did she mention anything like the smelly rubber debris of a >neoprene rubber balloon that later showed up in Fort Worth. None of >the debris field witnesses did. Were any of them asked about this? >So these portions of Schreiber's statements really don't match Mogul >at all. Also she mentioned a completely unknown writing on some of >the pieces which she couldn't make out. Yes, she reportedly stated: "There was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil. Some of these pieces had something like numbers and lettering on them, but there were no words we were able to make out". "They were written out like you would write numbers in columns to do an addition problem. But they didn't look like the numbers we use at all. What gave me the idea they were numbers, I guess, was the way they were all ranged out in columns". At the weekend, Karl Pflock was the guest at a conference on the CompuServe MUFON forum. I put some relevant questions to him, one of which concerned this point. Although I don't have an exact transcript as yet, in essence, Karl stated that Charles Moore confirmed it was common practice to use the materials as a "notepad" for calculations. I hadn't heard this confirmation before, but have wondered if that was possibly the case. It seemed the most likely explanation. Why would Bessie say, "they didn't look like the numbers we use at all"? We can only speculate - what would scribbles look like on material which had been subjected to the elements for a while, would the characters have become smudged, etc... Walt Whitmore Jnr claimed to have seen the debris Brazel brought into town. He reportedly confirmed, "Some of this material had a sort of writing on it which looked like numbers which had been either added or multiplied". >This WASN'T the infamous tape with "flower patterns." All of this is >conveniently overlooked by Mogul zealots. It was a point I hadn't seen addressed and at least it now has one explanation. I guess that doesn't qualify me as a zealot. Drat! >If it wasn't for Schreiber's description of the "flowered tape," the >Mogul people would have no case at all... This would seem to overlook Mac Brazel's own corroborative testimony and Loretta Proctor's comments that Mac "said there was more stuff there, like a tape that had some sort of figures on it...there was also something he described as tape which had printing on it...the colour of the printing was a kind of purple". There is also of course the "bakelite" which Moore identifies as the ballast tubes. Then there's the parchment parachutes and the descriptions of parchment in the debris, and considerably more besides to support the Mogul case. For example, from Dave Thomas's article in the July/August 1995 "Skeptical Inquirer": "Brazel's daughter, Bessie Brazel Schreiber, in a 1979 interview conducted by author William Moore (no relation to Charles B. Moore), described some aluminium ring-shaped objects in the debris that looked like pipe intake collars or the necks of balloons. (The mention of the rings appears in William Moore's transcript of the interview, but was not included in his book The Roswell Incident.) She estimated that they were about 4 inches around, and said she could put her hand through them. Charles Moore points out that Flight 4 carried several 3-inch-diameter aluminium rings for assisting with the launching of the balloon train, as well as larger rings used to hold the sonobuoys. These were cut from cylindrical tubing stock, and then chamfered to prevent damage to the ropes". >I really don't know what to make of Schreiber's testimony. [...] >It's conceivable she read her father's newspaper interview back in >1947 and adapted her descriptions, including the "flower tape," to >that. How would we then explain Loretta Proctor's confirmation that Mac Brazel also told her about the tape with purple printing? >I've also considered the possibility that maybe she witnessed >another balloon crash and recovery at some later time, perhaps one >of the metallized neoprene-coated nylon balloons. Maybe she got the >two events confused in her mind. That's an interesting possibility, but in the absence of any evidence, I would go along with the idea that some of her recollections are simply, and understandably, mixed up. >Currently there is NO plausible conventional explanation for the >anomalous physical properties attributed to the foil, wood-like >beams, and other materials. Which would presumably contend that... - "some material that looked like wood" and was "like balsa wood", "like balsa wood in weight"... couldn't have been "balsa wood beams that were coated in an "Elmer's-type" glue" - the tape with "what looked like pastel flowers or designs", where "the color of the printing was a kind of purple"... couldn't have been the "purplish-pink tape with flower and heart symbols on it" which was frequently used in radar targets - the "hieroglyphic-type characters", or "symbols", which were "pink-purple, lavender...pink and purple...a violet-purple type color" and which "had an embossed appearance".... couldn't have been that same tape, Charles Moore noting the symbols were "embossed on the back of the tape" - the whitish tape... couldn't have been...whitish tape - the "bakelite"... couldn't have been the ballast tube, as Moore indicates - the heavily waxed paper... wasn't simply heavily waxed paper - the "parchment"... couldn't have come from the parchment parachutes - the "heavy gauge monofilament nylon fishing line".. wasn't the monofilament nylon line used in rigging the Mogul arrays - the foil-like material... couldn't possibly have been foil used in Mogul balloon construction - perhaps from the radar targets - it's true properties possibly not so "anomalous" and essentially impossible for us to evaluate 50 years later. I think it could be contended that all of these are plausible, conventional explanations. Although I doubt all the questions will ever have answers, I had brought this topic up because some of the answers might be attainable. I'm not entirely in agreement with Karl's conclusion that descriptions of the foil-like material are somewhat exaggerated and the tale has grown in the telling. However, even if there is no conclusive explanation for *all* of the materials described, there does seem to be sufficient evidence that much of the material was compatible with balloon debris. If it was "not of this earth", the tape with purple flowers needs to be explained away for a start. It seems that's key corroborative evidence for a radar target. Charles Schmid also described "some material that looked like wood" and which "had some writing that looked like flowers on just one side". He confirmed, "it had pink petals, centered like a flower". Doesn't this sound like the 12 year old Marcel Jnr's "metallic I-beam" with "hieroglyphics"? Perhaps the same "little members with symbols", which his father said "did not look metallic", but "something like balsa wood". James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 1947, Era of Confusion From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:07:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:55:28 -0400 Subject: 1947, Era of Confusion The best overall book still available on the general situation in 1947 is: UFOs A History: 1947 by Loren Gross. It is not new. So some things are out of date. It is still available from Arcturus. It is written from a historian's point of view. I recommend it highly as an introduction. Several times Arcturus has tried to publish Gross' complete history series. The interest is about zero. Arcturus still has the booklets from 1949-1951. Sadly he can't give them away. Generally, I would say the less people know about this era, the more confidently they speak about the situation. Ruppelt called it the Era of Confusion. Understatement if there ever was one. There are plenty of myths or touchstones in the UFO field. It borders on sacrilege to question any of them. However, here is one. Ruppelt said he estimated he got 10% of the reports in the United States. This was off the top of his head and part of the absolutely >!*MEANINGLESS STATISTICS*!< (if I could put this in six inch letters I would) put out by the Air Force , the Air Ministry and scientists who should and do know better. In 1952 Ruppelt's had data that indicated this was incorrect. For 1947 the Air Force list 122 incidents in Project Blue Book files. After surveying 40% of the North American newspapers for about 21 days the official cases are less the 4% of the known cases. If the finding rate continued in the other 60% of North American newspapers, the Air Force percentage of reports would fall below 2% of the reports in the newspapers. Of course, some newspaper from ample evidence, I have collected, would have nothing to do with UFOs. And many people did not report their sightings. Officials were basing their decissions on less than 5% and more probably 1% or 2% of the available data. Statistics cut both ways don't they. <g> When you are dealing with phenomena seen by chance observation, you need all the data you can get because a high percentage of your data will be considered useless. Despite post to the contrary the military does not speak with one voice on this subject in the early part of this wave. Sometimes one spokesman will contradict another. High ranking officers were all over the map as were personnel from other agencies. The military did not make an concerted effort to gain control of the situation or speak with one voice until after Ramey's press conference. Some military UFO reports found in the press are not in official files. Many hoaxes during this period are not in Project Blue Book files. About the 10th of July two boys in Twins Fall, Idaho make a flying disc and drop it near a house. It is reported widely in the press and the FBI steppedin to investigate. The hoaxers confessed and the fake disc is turned over to the Army at Fort Douglas, Utah. Even though the military took possession of the object there is nothing about it in Project Blue Book files. A number of cases which caused worldwide attention are also not mentioned in the Project Blue Book files. (If it wasn't in the Dayton, Ohio newspaper or if one of the local military posts did not investigate it, it did get noticed. <g>) The FBI was quick off the mark to investigate a number of cases; unlike the lagging military. After the 4th of July weekend, the biggest sky watch since the Aircraft Warning Service shut down in May of 1944 began. People were out all over the place look for "flying discs." The mayor of Hartford, Connecticut, made national new by telling everyone to get back to work. Balloons are a big part of this era. There are weather bureau and other civilian agencies launching balloons on a regular schedule. (Usually two a day at 0600 and 1800.) Army Field Artillery and Air Defense launch balloon for firings, but the meteorological sections of these units also exchange weather observations with other services and agencies. Beside Mogul, Princeton was working on high altitude balloons. The Weather Bureau records were not helpful. There was probably a major weather research project going on at the time. There were over 100 pibal stations in AAF, Col. McCoy did not get a complete list until 1948. There were also a lot of surplus balloons and other devices like moored balloons on the surplus market. Later, in September 1947, the Civil Aviation Administration would asked the war surplus administration to stop selling weather balloons. There were flood in the Missouri area, and there must have been an increased sounding schedule as weather instruments were coming down all over the state of Missouri. The Circleville, Ohio, incident was just one of over a hundred radar target, radiosondes, and pibals found around the country. Many were headlined as "flying discs," but unlike Circleville, they did not make it into the national news. An easy local news story was for the local reporter to go out with a photographer to the weather station and report on the balloon release. However the General Yates head of the Weather Service said his balloons were not responsible for the furor. *After* General Ramey's press conference, the Army and the Navy invited press and wire services to balloon releases and they became national stories along with a debunking story that generally was under the headline of "Army, Navy Take Steps to Still Saucer Rumors." Also, following fast on the heals of various rewards totaling $3000, all kinds of crude hoax discs were found around the country. Capsule: 24 June Kenneth Arnold's sighting. 25 June First reports reach the press and Associated Press carries the story that appears in mostly western newspapers. 26 June AP, UP, INS all carry stories on Arnold which appear all around the country. Other UFO stories also come out. 27 Jun-3 Jul Sighting continues. Lots of foolish enters: Wire story about beer bottle cap, comments in the press about saucers with cups on them, or saucer sighters are in their cups. Various official statements mostly skeptical and several which are contradictory. Howard Blakeslee, AP Science Editor writes his first debunking article. AAF spokesman in Washington, DC says AAF not interested. 4-6 July, Independence weekend. United Airlines sighting by Captain Smith. Numerous other sightings. The Coast Guard photograph. Twining tells Dave Johnson he is interested and wants reports. Wright Field spokesman echos this to INS. Some National Guard and later CAP and private fliers organize air patrols for discs. 7 July probably the peak of serious interest. Blakeslee's second article on the fictious "Laws of Eyesight." Many of the weekend reports are detailed. Flying "Yo-Yo" hoax tale comes out of Bozeman, Montana and is carried world wide. First rewards offered for flying discs. "Flying pancake" is suggested widely as disc explanation. Balloon start being seen in local press stories. Also, searchlights are reported by many as flying discs. 8 July Foolishness start to get the upper hand. International story branding the Bozemen flying yo-yo as a hoax. Most of the newspapers that carry Hal Boyle print his first story about being kidnapped by a Martain. Boyle's two humor stories have big influence and appear in over 1,000 newspapers. After this story many people, especially women, feel compelled to discuss there drinking habits when reporting UFOs. The first reports of Roswell in the western press. "Dust mote" theory gets big play from a number of scientists and a military doctor in Germany. DeWitt Miller suggest ET saucers in an article on historical sightings carried worldwide. 9 July This is about the center point for coverage of the the picture of the catholic priest with the circular saw blade. Hal Boyle's second column appears in many papers. Roswell--many times married up with reports of Ramey's press conference appear. Foolish is at its height pushing out good stories. At 1:00 p. m. local time reporters are watching the release at Alamogrodo of a balloon. This is not widely reported and not until the next day in most cases. 10-11 July Reports on wire services showing Army and Navy balloon releases. The wire service storys nearly end except for foreign and humor stories. Bloecher ceases his newspaper search around these dates. Local press reports continue. "Rumor" story. Hoax discs in Hollywood and Twin Falls widely reported. (Sort of the Coup de Grace of press coverage.) 12-15 July. Press accounts rapidly fall off. The 15th was the limit for Barry Greenwood's searches. Generally this was my limit East of the Mississippi River. South American stories are reported. Overseas report seem to increase. 4th Air Force gets around to interviewing Arnold. 16-20 July Reports are down to two or three a day. On the 19/20 Blakeslee third articles as a rap-up appears. He predicts that the flying saucer will become a huge folklore in America. 29 July Second United Airline sighting which is mostly reported in the west. 31 July-7 August The Muary Island story/AAF crash is reported in newspaper mostly in the west. Muary Island was reported in June by Reuter, but that was only overseas. The story was not well known in the US until these dates. August 8 LTC Springer discussed with the coverage of case and the crash tells the press that UFO investigations are at an end. The story is carried worldwide, but says that the AAF has drop all investigations. Springer writes apolligies to the Air Defence Command and AMC, but he or no military correct the press story. Now do you notice any debunking campagne using weather balloons prior to 9 July? I didn't. Neither did Bloecher nor did Gross. There are indeed stories about balloons and theories about balloons, but not an official effort to debunk UFOs as balloons. Yates' statement is completely out line with an such alledged campaign. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:53:28 -0400 Subject: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:03:25 -0400 >For God's sake, Dennis! >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:00:17 -0500 (CDT) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >> Subject:UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy, and the B & B Affair >> And finally, I'm glad to see that Linda "Cortile" is now an expert >> on Roswell, too. Will miracles never cease? One can only wonder if >> it came about by sheer media osmosis, or merely by reading Ed >> Coma-wreck on the subject. Either way, it's still pretty amazing. Dennis Stacy ========================================================================= Greg Sandow responds, (snip) >And now you've got to get after Linda. >Sure, if Linda's taking Ed's side here, you have every right to be >pissed. But she never claimed to be an expert on Roswell. She >expressed an opinion, same as everyone else. She did so pretty >modestly, too. You're way out of line. >And what's up with putting "Cortile" in quotes? Everybody knows >that's not her real last name. She has a right to her anonymity, same >as any abductee, even if she's occasionally spoken in public or on TV >(sometimes with her face blacked out). Are you implying there's >something sleazy about her using another name to protect herself and >her family, as if she somehow profited from it, the way Kathie Lee >Gifford profited from the phony image of her perfect marriage? To me, >it's wrong to print her real name, as Stefula et al did in their >critique of her case, or as you did in the book you just edited with >Hilary Evans. (I was going to speak to you about that privately, but >the hell with it.) It's especially wrong because -- in both the >Stefula paper and your introduction to your book -- her real name >doesn't matter. Nothing you say would read any differently if you >called her Linda Cortile. Greg Sandow =========================================================================== Hi Greg, Dennis, All, I can't improve much on Gregs comments about Dennis' thoughtless use of Linda's real name. Everytime someone does it they immediately (try to) distance themselves from their unethical act by claiming that Linda's real name is "already out there." That's just plain bullsh*t, and doesn't justify the callous invasion and disregard for Linda's (or anyone's) right to privacy and anonymity *or that of their family members.* You and the Greys have a lot in common that way. The degree of violation is equal. 'Outing' an abductee (or anyone, about anything) against their will or wishes is just about as low as a person can get. It clearly demonstrates a complete lack of familiarity with journalistic ethics, understanding, human compassion, respect, or even a rudimentary awareness of the basic human rights of anyone reporting abduction experiences, UFO sightings or ordinary run of the mill daily crimes that they may have witnessed for that matter. Because someone reports an abduction it does not automatically negate any rights to privacy or anonymity that the individual may desire. Nor does it make us fair game for every "self proclaimed" ufologist or skeptic with a personal theory that blows down the pike. If you can 'out' Linda without a second thought about potential negative consequences for her or her family you're just a sorry excuse for a human being. Stick around Dennis, you may be able to buy "compassion" in a drugstore one day and fill that gaping black empty hole (where compassion should be!) Respond if you must, I just didn't want you to walk away unscathed by your reprehensible act. There's absolutely NO EXCUSE for 'outing' anyone! "We ain't gonna take it, never have and never will." (The "WHO") Just *my* oppinion and nothing more. That, and a buck and-a-half will get me a subway ride! But,... you haven't heard the end of this, I'm sure that Linda and others will have a few 'choice words' for you as well. <G> John Velez, (Human Being) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: Re: Clive Nadin?? From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:18:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Clive Nadin?? On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Clive Nadin?? > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:46:49 -0500 (CDT) > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:16:15 -0400 (EDT) > > From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> > > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Clive Nadin > > I was just wondering if anyone could tell a little about Clive Nadin? > > A little background, what he's accomplished and where and what he is > > doing now. > Clive and Claire Nadin came to Canada in about 1985 (?). Clive began > investigating cases in and around the Ottawa area and also was keenly > interested in tracking down government files. In the late 1980s, he > collected hundreds of cases from the NRC files and meticulously sorted > them and categorized them for use by other researchers. He was one of WOW! Any idea what happened to that index? Sounds like the index I have been working on!!!! Sure would save me a ton of work. .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 3 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:15:29 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:18:03 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >>Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:25:07 +0100 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >>Joseph Trainor wrote: >>>From: Masinaigan@aol.com >>>Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:55:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >> UFO ROUNDUP >>>Volume 2, Number 22 >>>June 1, 1997 >>>Editor: Joseph Trainor >> >On Saturday, May 24, 1997, at 10 p.m., while >>>watching the Memorial Day weekend fireworks display at >>>Doreny Park in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (population >>>70,419), B.J. Makwah noticed "a bright red light in the >>>sky" about one mile (1.6 kilometers) behind the exploding >>>skyrockets. "Crowds of people began watching the red >>>light. The light got smaller, but you could still see it. >>>Then it sped off really fast. This was no airplane." >>>(USENET Report) >===================================================================== >>These are just two examples of where lights seemed to have attracted >>an extraterrestrial audience. Maybe no small wonder when you >>consider >>how UFOs have been confounding us with their aerial >>displays for many >>years. >>Are there any other examples out there? >>Regards, >>Don Ledger >===================================================================== >Hiya Don, hi All, >If I'm not mistaken, one of CSETI's main field techniques involves using >bright lights (sometimes waved about in the sky to trace out a triangle >pattern) to attract UFO's. I have no idea how many of the 'reported' >cases involve UFO's attracted to earth based lights, but CSETI got the >notion from somewhere. If there's anyone out there who can shed a little >light on how or why this particular technique is employed I'd be real >interested in hearing it. >Interesting observation Don, maybe someone familiar with this technique >will respond. Obviously someone at CSETI is convinced that there (is) a >justification for attracting them (UFO's) by using lights at night. >John Velez Hello John, Don and all list members, I always have to laugh when I hear about CSETI's light flashing techniques. As with everything else in ufology, there is little in the way of new approaches. A man named Jack Maynard and the Great Lakes Flying Saucer Club believed an "open mind" can help one make contact with aliens. Maynard used a huge flashlight which he flashed off and on to attract the attention of the saucers. When was this you ask? Back in the early to mid 1950's! Just another example of the progression we've accomplished over the past 40 - 50 years in our approach to studying UFOs. :) Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | jvif | dledger |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:30:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 00:10:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Regarding... >Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:42 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Bob, I don't know if I have a copy of the final print run. That's what I was trying to clarify. All I can say is that Lizzy Blanchard at Michael O'Mara Books suggested I speak to "Richard", as he apparently had the only copy of the final print. Comparing some key sections of text, his copy was the same as mine. As there still seemed to be some uncertainty and I wasn't convinced, I said to Lizzy that I would prefer to wait for a definite confirmation from someone. >If the final text says McAndrews rather than the correct name >McAndrew, then that is a major error which was not corrected. It's trivial in relation to some of the others and the overall contents. Maybe a List subscriber from the US (it's not on sale here as yet) could confirm if the points I mentioned to Philip Mantle are consistent with the release print. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Dennis Stacy 'Outing' Abductee's From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: Tues, 4 June 1997 04:56 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:14:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacy 'Outing' Abductee's >Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:0017 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON, Dennis Stacy and >the B & B Affair Dennis Stacy wrote: >And finally, I'm glad to see that Linda "Cortile" is now >an expert on Roswell, too. Will miracles never cease? >One can only wonder if it came about by sheer media >osmosis, or merely by reading Ed Coma-wreck on the >subject. Either way, its still pretty amazing. What's your problem, Dennis? Are you offended because I agree with Ed, on certain issues? So, what! What's it to you? I don't owe you anything. At least, Ed, is not a debunker. In fact, he's an intelligent man, with class. When you sided with the three self-made MORON, debunkers from South Jersey, as they harrassed my family and me, did I degrade you in public? As much as I would've liked to, Hopkins stopped me. You have Budd to thank, because I would've landed it into you, real good (which is what most everyone wanted me to do). Where do you come off treating me, or any other abductee as second rate citizens just because you don't believe in alien abductions? You must think an awful lot of yourself, as it's plain to see. Well, Dennis, I have news for you. There aren't many people out there, who feel as strongly about you, as you feel about yourself. I've wondered, who do you think you are? Well, wake up and smell the coffee, Dennis! You *are not* who you think you are. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:46:56 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:00:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons >Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons > >>Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:38:48 -0400 >>To: Updates@globalserve.net >>From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >>Subject: Mogul Balloons and Weather Balloons > > >>So, my question is......IF the item crashed, had the WEIGHT to gouge the >>earth and SCATTER debris, can ANYONE explain how a BALLOON could POSSIBLY do >>this? > > >David, > >What crashed near Roswell was a balloon train of Mylar balloons inflated >with swamp gas, with fireflies glued all over the outside. Several tons >of Army surplus anvils were hung underneath, and as it lost altitude in >a terrible thunderstorm the anvils gouged the earth. Then lightning struck >it and the methane blew up, scattering debris over a wide area. > >The anvils? Oh, nobody wanted to let on since anvils were so valuable to >local ranchers, so they just divvied them up and carried them off. As proof >of this I invite debunkers to visit the ranches in the area. Every damned >one of them has an anvil! What more could you ask for as proof? > >I think this theory makes every bit as much sense as the "official" one. > >Bob Bob, Unfortunately your theory falls down in one important area - what did the army recover if the farmers got all the anvils and what was transported to Wright Patterson. Obviously, applying the little grey cells to the problem, if the farmers got the anvils and the army took something away there must have been two downed balloons at Roswell at that time. Of course that raises the heavy problem of just where did the mogul people get all that swamp gas and again the answer is obvious. They got all the politicians, army brass and debunkers together and had more than enough gas for two balloons. Stuart <lol>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jun 97 08:30:50 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:16:08 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:30:12 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I got into this yesterday with the publisher and literary agent of the book. Some changes were made (such as correcting a wrong state of origin for Barry Goldwater) but only a few corrections from my LONG list were made. I had pointed out that the U-2 was an unarmed spy plane, but it is still in the book as a bomber, I had corrected McAndrews to McAndrew, but the book still has McAndrews, and the list goes on and on. This all falls on the head of one Dan, Production Manager for the book, who chose which corrections to make and which to ignore. He claimed yesterday "...all substantive changes _were_ made." I guess he doesn't consider wrong photos with captions and names spelled wrong as "substantive". I'm angry, Philip is depressed, and I haven't talked to Mike yet. Hopefully Marlowe will care enough about their own reputation, if nothing else, to actually fix the problems for the second print run, already scheduled. The book will be a best seller, regardless, but it would be nice to have an accurate best seller. Once I get a copy of the actual book I will put together a few pages of corrections which should have been made and post them for those interested in having the correct info. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 On the trail of Kal From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:46:18 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:50:02 -0400 Subject: On the trail of Kal Hi List, Kal K. Korff seems to have left us. Now that his book is out and extensively promoted on this list he is ducking the critisism from real researchers such als Randle, Rudiak, Shell, Sandow et al. One of his last attempts to promote his book seems to have been to pose as a certain Pamela7@aol.com who complimented him for his book three weeks before it was in the stores. A few weeks later this was followed by a message from our Esteemed Moderator ebk to the effect that both Kal's official mailbox (TotlResrch@aol.com) and Pamela7's box (Pamela7@aol.com) both stopped receiving email at the same time. What a coincidence! If I put this suspect behavior on the same heap as the rumors, unfounded assumptions and hearsay that together form Kal's book, I think I have figured this guy out. As a service to this list I post Kal's latest promotional efforts found on Jim Moseley's web site. Especially note that Kal is boasting 16 years of research on Roswell. Isn't he pathetic! (PS: Moseley also writes that Phil Klass will also bring out a new anti-Roswell book shortly. I guess this confirms Prometheus's reputation as the publisher for the analytically challenged). Here comes Kal, folks. Don't take it seriously, just have a laugh. KAL K. KORFF writes as follows: Just a short note to share a few things with you: I have a new book that just came out called "The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know" and it represents 16 years worth of research. For the first time ever the true nature of what was recovered near Roswell is DEFINITIVELY proven, the book is loaded with "smoking guns." (Yes, DEFINITIVELY proven!!!) The book breaks my silence on many issues that I have held inside me for 16 years, remember, people like Stanton Friedman and Bill Moore USED to be mentors of mine. Now, for the first time ever, I reveal new insights into their methods and claims, the details of which will shock many people. I really wish Friedman, for example would quit DUCKING the research of Robert Todd, whose conclusions are independently VERIFIED and VINDICATED in my new book. Also Friedman has called me a "Johnny come lately to Roswell" on his WEB page. I expect Friedman to APOLOGIZE and CORRECT this mistake because he KNOWS BETTER! (Come on, Stan, APOLOGIZE to Kal. You've hurt his feelings!) I first started investigating Roswell when I used to visit Friedman at his home in Union City when I was in high school, a fact Friedman conveniently "forgets"!) My new book also corrects the numerous errors in other Roswell UFO books, especially the up-and-coming hilarious tome panted by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle. While they call their work "Beyond Roswell," a more accurate title for it should be "Beyond Gulliblity." Speaking of Hesemann, I am reminded of Eduard "Billy" Meier. Hesemann is licking his wounds here too, since yes it is TRUE that Kalliope Meier (Meier's Greek wife) has DIVORCED him now and has told the Swiss courts UNDER OATH that she NEVER BELIEVED her husband's claims of "Pleiadian" contact! (The fact that Kal seems to give much weight to the testimony of a person entangled in a judicial case with her former spouse says everything about Kal's objectivity) She's even ADMITTED to the courts of helping her husband LIE about them and FAKE material and photos! Of course, NONE of this has detoured either Hesemann or Wendelle Stevens, the latter of whom has remained curiously SILENT about the Meier case ever since my expose book came out last year. (Yeah, like Stevens cares) Back to Roswell, I interviewed everyone from the Mayor of Roswell to the late Dr. Donald Menzel's widow and daughter for my new book (so yes, it even addresses MJ-l2). The inside "scoop" is also presented on Bill Moore being a "disinformation" agent' and there's a chapter on alien autopsy and some behind-the-scenes info there. The book is in hardcover format, has dozens of photos in it, some of which have never been published before and has hundreds of footnotes. It is available in bookstores across the country or from services like Arcturus, and has already been mentioned on MSNBC and in U.S. News & World Report magazine. The book's lSBN number (if anyone wishes to onler a copy) is: 1573921270. Ofcourse, Supreme One, you are mentioned in the book and in the index as well. HvdP. Kal's method: Steal from others, cook up crap to fill the blanks and embark on a sales tour. Folks, fight back and DO NOT buy this book! If publisher Prometheus is getting the message that the public simply doesn't buy crap they are forced to terminate their bullshit department. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: 04 June 1997 02:43 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:04:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Say's >Date: 97-06-03 11:14:28 EDT >From: updates@globalserve.net (Ufo UpDates - Toronto) >To: updates@globalserve.net Bob Shell wrote: >I was very surprised by the exchange about George Filer. >I've gotten to know George very well, and he certainly is no >generic debunker. He does not believe in Linda's story, but >even she must admit that this is a very difficult story to >believe. George has been a great help to me in my research >on the AA film, and never once have I had the feeling that he >was trying to steer things toward a debunking. Disbelieving >in an incredible case does not make someone a debunker. Hi there, Bob. Hope everything is fine with you. Filer does not outwardly debunk. He has his henchmen from South Jersey doing it for him. You're absolutely right...if one disbelieves a case, that does not make him a debunker. There was a time when I didn't believe that Roswell ever occurred. But when the "Witnessed" case happened to me, I changed my mind, fast. I can't blame those who don't believe what happened to me. Nor will I try to convince them because they have a right to their opinions. However, they loose that right and become debunkers when they hurt innocent people in the process, as was done to me. I know that Filer is not his brother's keeper, however, no one is going to tell me that he didn't know what was going on with his underlings when they harrassed, my children, my husband and me. It was written all over the internet and in articles. Do you think that if your opinion differs from mine, that I have a have a right to harrass you, simply because you've stuck to your guns? Have you ever spent time with this man when he's with his peers? You're lucky it was film Filer has helped you with and not an alien abduction case. I wish that I've felt the way I do now, back then, in the midst of the harrassment. We've never been harrassed before. It was very new to us. If it were to happen again, presently, I'll have a big surprise waiting for them. <G> Warm regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:43:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:06:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:30:12 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >Date: 02 Jun 97 10:11:42 EDT > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book > Bob, > I don't know if I have a copy of the final print run. That's what I > was trying to clarify. > All I can say is that Lizzy Blanchard at Michael O'Mara Books > suggested I speak to "Richard", as he apparently had the only copy of > the final print. Comparing some key sections of text, his copy was > the same as mine. > As there still seemed to be some uncertainty and I wasn't convinced, > I said to Lizzy that I would prefer to wait for a definite > confirmation from someone. > >If the final text says McAndrews rather than the correct name > >McAndrew, then that is a major error which was not corrected. > It's trivial in relation to some of the others and the overall > contents. > Maybe a List subscriber from the US (it's not on sale here as yet) > could confirm if the points I mentioned to Philip Mantle are > consistent with the release print. > James. > E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Dear James, I was as disapointed as anyone to disciver that many, if not most of the corrections that were sent to our publisher Marlowe & Co were not made. Some of these are minor errors while others are more significant. Both Michael Hesemann, myself and Bob Shell have made our feelings known to our publisher and our literary agent regarding this matter and we are doing all we can to rectify the mater before the next print run. Despite these problems it does not significantly alter the theme and argument of the book which I have no doubt you will disagree with once you have had the time to digest its contents. With respect I can not continue discussions on this matter any further as I am far too busy both at work and with other UFO related projects. I would therefore respectifully like to suggest that you put any further 'complaints' of this nature direct to our publisher. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: On the trail of Kal From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jun 97 11:27:16 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:45:59 -0400 Subject: Re: On the trail of Kal >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:46:18 +0200 (MET DST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: On the trail of Kal Henny, >If publisher Prometheus is getting the message that the public >simply doesn't buy crap they are forced to terminate their bullshit >department. Then they'd have to shut down completely, since that seems to be their ONLY department!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Clive Nadin?? From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:16:34 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:49:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Clive Nadin?? > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:11:57 -0400 (EDT) > From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Clive Nadin?? > > Clive and Claire Nadin came to Canada in about 1985 (?). Clive began > > investigating cases in and around the Ottawa area and also was keenly > > interested in tracking down government files. In the late 1980s, he > > collected hundreds of cases from the NRC files and meticulously sorted > > them and categorized them for use by other researchers. He was one of > WOW! Any idea what happened to that index? Sounds like the index I have > been working on!!!! > Sure would save me a ton of work. In a word, no. :) He only worked on a few years' worth of NRC reports, so there were only two or three hundred at most, and all from around that time period. Your much more exhaustive index dating back to the 50s is more thorough and complete, don't worry! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 05:41:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:24:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book For anyone interested our book BEYOND ROSELL can be obtained via Arcturus Books Inc in the USa. It is alresady on sake in book shops also in the USA. In the UK the first shop to stock the book is the Forbidden Planet on Oxford Street in London, however, mail order copies can be obtained with free p & p from Biblios, telephone 01403 710 851. Any press inquiries in the USA should be directed to John Weber, Marlowe & co. Tele: 212 460 5742. In Britain you should contact Lizzy Blanchard at Michael O'Mara books. Telephone: 0171 720 8643. All the best, Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 With or without Greer, do something ! From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:26:23 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:17:53 -0400 Subject: With or without Greer, do something ! Hello, List. Over the last weeks, I've been reading the mails posted here, with the pros and cons about CSETI and its director, Steven Greer. Instead of boring you with just another member's opinion, I'm adding another point to the debate. My point is : you disagree with Greer ? You think he's not the right guy ? Very good, respectful position. I sincerely suggest you get out of your armchairs and do something yourselves, concretely, to end this cover-up. Don't like Greer's methods ? Use yours ! I believe * criticizing is easy, acting is better. * I suggest you work to gather a group of military witnesses to high-level UFO/ET events (e.g. UFO crashes, alien bodies, autopsies, debris retrieval, reverse engineering, etc.), then just organize a hearing and call the press. Why not ? "It's not easy", one might say. Well, life is not easy. You just gotta take the first step, then you take the second, and so on. Don't give up, and don't stop until you get something substantial. "I don't have money enough, and neither contacts with representatives", another can add. Sure, but you don't need a great amount of money or these contacts to make it : if you organize a private hearing, just introducing a group of military witnesses to the public, you don't need so much money. And it's better than nothing. Well, that's it. I'm not an ufologist, just a concerned citizen who runs a UFO page and who believes it's more than time for a UFO/ET disclosure. As citizens, as voters and as taxpayers, we have the total right to know what the Govs. are hiding from us, and what they're doing with *our money* (from black, illegal budgets) in UFO-related operations. I support CSETI's Project Starlight, Komarek's Operation Right To Know, the International Roswell Initiative, and any other initiatives against this infamous and ridiculous cover-up. I also believe this matter should not remain restricted to the UFO community as the consequences of a disclosure process will be felt over our society as a whole. Therefore, I think the participation of the NGO's in this process is always welcome, although not mandatory. Best Regards, *----------------------------------------------* | | | Paulo H. Andrade - pha0801@ibm.net | | http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4025/ | | "Varginha Case - The Whole Story" webmaster | | | *----------------------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:21:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:06:05 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 > I always have to laugh when I hear about CSETI's light flashing techniques. > As with everything else in ufology, there is little in the way of new > approaches. A man named Jack Maynard and the Great Lakes Flying Saucer Club > believed an "open mind" can help one make contact with aliens. Maynard used > a huge flashlight which he flashed off and on to attract the attention of > the saucers. > > When was this you ask? Back in the early to mid 1950's! > > Drew Williamson Drew, you mean to tell me that what they've been waiting for all these years to initiate contact is a simple signal to land? <grin> .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 'Committee on UFOs' From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:23:43 -0400 Subject: 'Committee on UFOs' As some of you are alrady aware, I am going through thousands of Canadian Department of National Defence documents and creating an index for distribution. (If you'd like a copy, e-mail me) Yesterday I came across this document (Record Group 24, Volume 17984, HQ 940-5, Part 1, Index Number 000140) that caught my eye, because I take a special interest in Wilbert B. Smith. I could not help but notice the reference to the "Committee on Unidentified Flying Objects", of which Wilbert was the chairman. Has anyone heard of this group before? I was previously aware of the government sponsored Projects Magnet, Theta and Second Story. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ROYAL CANADIAN AIR FORCE Ontario 21 Nov 57 Mr. Mrs. [ CENSORED ]: [ CENSORED ] [ CENSORED ] Ontario, Canada Dear Mr. and Mrs. [ CENSORED ]: Your letters of the 10th and 11th of November have been read with great interest. Since this is one the few reports that has excited our analysts to any extent, we have forwarded it to Mr. W.B. Smith the Canadian Chairman of the Committe on unidenti- fied Flying Objects. This Committee is International in its aspect and studies all reliable reports in Canada and the United States. We wish to thank you very much for your report, and appreciate the trouble you have taken to send it to us. Sincerely, (Signed) (J.C. Lovelace) Squadron Leader for Chief of the Air Staff JC Lovelace/prb File Orig. Circ. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jun 97 12:55:44 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:25:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says >Date: 04 June 1997 02:43 (EDT) >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says Linda, I certainly do not intend to belittle your problems from others. No one has the right to harass another human being for any reason. I am a strong believer in leaving people alone. Whenever I have interviewed people in my research, I have gone far out of my way to make sure I was not intruding on them in an unwanted way, and if they said "scram", that's exactly what I did. On your story, I am neither believer nor disbeliever, but open minded and hoping that some day proof will emerge to decide the issue. I think you and Budd are honest people. On another subject, I do not approve of anyone publishing your legal name without your permission. You have every right to a "nom de guerre". Someone sent me your real name in an e-mail a long time ago, and it went into the mental files of unnecessary information. I never passed it on to anyone, and have forgotten it! I just didn't consider it my business to be concerned with, since you were readily available under the other name. I think what is missing from the equation for many researchers is a simple respect for others. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 4 Re: UFO 'Hot Spots'? From: Melempire@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:26:31 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Hot Spots'? Hi Everyone I am looking for U.K footage. I am presently in the process of putting together a U.K Ufo experience video and need all the help I can get If anyone can help. Please Please Let me know email; melempire@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:11:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! > Subj: UFO UpDate: Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! > Date: 97-06-03 09:28:37 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:29:00 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Yet ANOTHER Roswell book! > List, > It appears Charles B. Moore, the former member of Project Mogul is > writing his own work on Roswell! This is really getting to be too much! > Here's the URL where I found the information if you're interested: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1560987510/6116-2342924-746591 Roswell is rapidly evolving into another Kennedy assassination caper: "40" (using 40 as a figure of speech here) books by 40 experts/and or witnesses each telling their story, which is totally at odds with the other 39 books in existance and each one of them tells the "real" story, or the "correct interpretation" of the facts and also lists all the alleged errors committed by the other 39 authors while defending their own position. I Years from now on another Roswell's birthday, we will have new books filled with new stories and new interpretations of the same information.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: On the trail of Kal From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 01:39:52 -0400 Subject: Re: On the trail of Kal Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:46:18 +0200 (MET DST) To: updates@globalserve.net From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Subject: On the trail of Kal > Kal K. Korff seems to have left us. Now that his book is out and >extensively promoted on this list he is ducking the critisism from > real researchers such als Randle, Rudiak, Shell, Sandow et al.>> I remember. He promised he was going to easily dispatch me, but he was spending 17 hours a day answering his e-mail. What a sense of responsibility to his many fans! So I've been sitting here waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting. > One of his last attempts to promote his book seems to have been > to pose as a certain Pamela7@aol.com who complimented him for his > book three weeks before it was in the stores. A few weeks later this was > followed by a message from our Esteemed Moderator ebk to the > effect that both Kal's official mailbox (TotlResrch@aol.com) and > Pamela7's box (Pamela7@aol.com) both stopped receiving email at the > same time. > What a coincidence! Indeed, what an amazing coincidence! Of course it was abundantly obvious before then from the aol address, the sudden appearance of "Pamela 7" on UFO Updates, the absence of any aol member profile on "Pamela 7," "Pamela's" gushing review with details of Korff's still unreleased book, and the remarkably similar literary styles that the anonymous "Pamela 7" was simply Kal Korff in drag. But he denied it nonetheless on UFO UpDates. I guess that almost certainly makes him a hoaxer and a liar, exactly what he accuses all those Roswell witnesses of being. Unfortunately I felt it necessary to buy his book. What a waste! The lying certainly didn't stop on UFO UpDates. I gave one example where he tried to distance himself from current Mogul balloon witness Walt Whitmore Jr. He had him saying he still had crashed saucer debris, when in reality Whitmore is claiming to have balloon debris, which he won't show anybody. He's an embarrassment to the balloonies, therefore Korff deceitfully tried to place him in the opposing camp. Korff also claimed here on UFO UpDates to have done original research on Jesse Marcel showing what a deceitful liar he was, but all Korff did was pad the book by reprinting Robert Todd's original debunking article of Marcel. And of course, as you point out, Korff also attacks the character and integrity of all the Roswell researchers. As I said before, Korff is nothing but a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 17:30:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 01:44:34 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 05:41:25 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >For anyone interested our book BEYOND ROSELL can be obtained via Arcturus >Books Inc in the USa. It is already on sale in book shops also in the >USA. I would add that it is also available at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ats-query/9635-0019092-888743 Beyond Roswell : The Alien Autopsy Film, Area 51, and the U.S. Governmen t Coverup of Ufo's by Michael Hesemann, Philip Mantle Hardcover, 216 pages List: $24.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $17.47 -- You Save: $7.48(30%) Publication date: June 1,1997 Dimensions (in inches): 8.32 x 8.20 x .96 ISBN: 1569247811 Since this Web site is located on a "Secure Server", it is possible to place your order for the book and have it shipped to you. Shipping is not included in the above price, and it may also be available from other sites for less. Steve PS- You might also try a "keyword" search of the Amazon.com system to see if they any other books of interest. However, such activity can be dangerous to your credit cards . . . . . <g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES *** From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 03:46:18 -0400 Subject: Re: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES *** I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any erros, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) DOCUMENTS 000100 TO 000125 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- UFO CRASH, PRINCE GEORGE, PD, 04/29/59 098 05/06/59 Air Force, Temporary Docket, DAI-A13-3, DAI-A12-4-2 099 05/06/59 Air Defence Command, Squadron Leader, Wood To: Air Force Headquarters Ottawa Re: UFO crash 05/01/59 CANAIRVAN, Directorate Air Intelligence 100 04/30/59 Telex: CANAIRVAN UFO explosion/crash, Prince George, PD 04/29/59 RED UFO OVER MONTREAL, 04/12/59 101 05/05/59 Squardron Leader Wood, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Air Force Headquarters, Chief Air Staff Re: Red UFO over Montreal 04/12/59 102 04/26/59 Carr of Inter-Continental Aerial Research Foundation (ICARF) To: Air Defence Command, St. Hubert, PQ Re: UFOs over Montreal 04/12/59 METALIC STRIPS FOUND IN FIELDS, QUEBEC 04/20/59 103 04/21/59 Air Force, Temporary Docket 104 04/21/59 Squadron Leader Wood, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Cheif Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters Ottawa, Department of Air Intelligence, Squadron Leader, Lovelace Re: UFO report of SOPR and release of UFO information 105 04/15/59 Squadron Leader Harvey, SOPR Re: Inquiry into UFO report of St. Hubert, PQ 106 04/15/59 (Page Two of the Above) 107 04/20/59 Wolfe, PQ (Translation) To: Honorable Minister Re: Metalic Strips found in Fields 108 04/20/59 (Copy of the Above) 109 04/20/59 (Original of Above in Hand Written French) 110 08/10/59 Squadron Leader Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Sqaudron Leader, Harvey, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command, Royal Canadian Air Force Station, St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFO Questionaire 111 03/31/59 Squadron Leader Harvey, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Chief Air Staff, Sqaudron Leader Lovelace Re: UFO policy and public relations 112 04/02/59 Department National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 113 03/28/59 Montreal, Quebec To: Department Air Intelligence Re: UFO Reports over past five years 114 03/28/59 (Page Two of the Above) 115 03/28/59 (Page Three of the Above) 116 03/28/59 (Page Four of the Above) UFO, HAMILTON, ONTARIO, 02/06/59 117 04/09/59 Flight Lieutenant, Fransic, Cheif Air Staff To: Eager, Hamilton, Ontario Re: Letter of 04/02/59 reporting UFO of 02/06/59 118 04/02/59 Eager, Hamilton, Ontario To: Cheif Air Staff, Ottawa Re: UFO, Hamilton, Ontario, 02/06/59 UFO, RIDGETOWN, ONTARIO, 08/17/58 119 05/05/58 Flight Lieutenant, Francis, Chief Air Staff, RCAF To: Rodney, Ontario Re: UFO report of 08/17/58 121 08/21/58 Rodney, Ontario To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO report Rodney/Morpeth/Ridgetown/LakeErie 08/17/58 120 08/29/58 Department Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks Minute Sheet 123 08/19/58 Department Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks, Minute Sheet Re: Four-year-old UFO report FLYING SAUCER, KESSWICK, ONTARIO, FALL 1954 122 08/20/58 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Banks, Kesswick, York County, Ontario Re: UFO Report dated 08/12/58 124 08/12/58 Banks, Kesswick, York County, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters Re: UFO report Oct/Nov 1954 fifty foot hovering disc 125 07/04/58 Royal Canadian Air Force, Minute Sheet, DADO Re: Response to UFO report -------------------- Index to be Continued ------------------------------- .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:24:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:56:41 -0400 Subject: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair I stumbled across an interview with David Adair in the current "Whole Life Times" (May '97, available at my local grocery store.) While details on the CSETI briefing in April have been in short supply to date, Adair appears to be a primary witness who has gone public. I've recounted the key parts of his story below. At the moment, I'm unable to independently verify Adair's background, and didn't find existing references to him on the net (aside from this context). Is Adair a known character? It would be nice to have some more information on this fellow. According to his bio, David Adair built his first rocket when he was 11, and at 17 won an award for "The Most Outstanding in the Field of Engineering Sciences" from the U.S. Air Force for his construction of a 10-foot tall, half-ton missile that set the fastest speed record of any missile flown at the time. (This was built with the help of his father who was a mechanic for Nascar and had access to a huge, state-of-the-art machine shop and technicians. He ran into troubles with the math early on, and allegedly his work was sent on to none other than Stephen Hawking for assistance.) Adair's endeavors attracted the attention of the military. At this point I'll let Adair speak for himself, as we proceed directly to DreamLand: "When my rocket landed, they gave pre-set coordinates and it came down in the desert about 120 miles north of Las Vegas. I thought it would be lost but there's a giant 30-40,000-acre Air Force Base that's not on the map, called Area 51. They took me to one of the hangars, floor dropped out from under us, and a huge elevator took us down into a cavern facility underground to see this engine. "The vision was remarkable in its design and construction. It looked nothing like what we have even today. The alloys were really strange, almost transparent -- so strong I could stand on it and it would not give. When I touched it, it felt like a woman's skin, so incredibly soft, smooth and extremely hard. Very unusual alloy casting, it wasn't even like titanium or other hard metals. ... It was covered with heiroglyphics which I memorized. The entire engine was damaged all the way around and the center was incinerated. ... With this kind of engine you use plasma physics and your running temperature is at 100 million degrees C, hotter than the sun. They wanted to know how to get the power flows and conversion things working. ... "Then it dawned on me. They said that this was their engine and I thought, "Why am I having to explain how your engine works to you?" ... That's when they got upset and jerked me out of that room. They kept me in this room for 10 hours with no windows or doors. Finally, (Gen.) Curtis Lemay came in and took me home." Speaking about the CSETI briefings: "The other witnesses they have were all former Air Force people. They saw pictures or they saw radar blips. No one ever saw real hardware pulled into a secret military base like I did. So, obviously they wanted to hear what I had to say. There were about 12 of us invited to testify, all ex-military except for one woman who was ex-NASA." Another witness was an attorney out of Nashville named Steve Lovkin, who while in the army reportedly worked in the Pentagon in inscriptions and secret coding, and elsewhere is described as a military aide who regularly briefed President Eisenhower on UFO evidence and developments. Recounting his meeting of Lovkin at the CSETI briefings, Adair states, "They brought these pieces of metal in [to Lovkin at the Pentagon] and said the pieces were from a crashed UFO. They couldn't decipher the emblems on them. While Steve was talking I was sitting next to him, and I'd never met the man in my life and I sat there and sketched out the emblems that I'd seen. I said, 'Steve, did they look like this?' and the man almost fainted at the microphone. I got 12 out of 12. I said, 'I think what you saw at the Pentagon came off the engine that I saw.' "So that got the senators and congressman fired up. How could I possibly hit so many correct? That was a high point because it threw credibility back into my corner." I would be remiss if I failed to pass on other remarkable comments from Adair. With regards to his ideas for 'rocket science' as a child, these "started coming through dreams early on, at age seven. ... At first they were just random, then a little more frequent. Then the dreams started following a sequential order -- I would dream about something I was working on and I'd get to a point where I really couldn't figure out what to do and then I'd get a dream and the next day I would know how to do it." When Hawking looked at his equations and asked him where he got his information, "I told him from dreams, and he said if I had answered any other way I would have lost all credibility." Adair also argues, similar (apparently) to Col. Philip Corso in his new UFO conspiracy blockbuster "The Day After Roswell", that some or much of the modern technological boom has been spurred by the captured ET artefacts. He talks about sweeping cover-ups in NASA. He seems to be making himself available on the lecture circuit. The only contact information provided is a phone number for his "Need to Know" conference bookers at 310-669-4806. Any more info on this one out there? -- Geoff Price Geoff@CalibanMW.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: 04 June 1997 23:18 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:41:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says >Date: 04 June 97 12:55:44 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Says Bob Shell wrote: >Linda, >I certainly do not intend to belittle your problems from others. >No one has the right to harrass another human being for any >reason. AMEN. Now, we're cooking with gas!!!!! >On your story, I am neither a believer nor disbeliever, but >open minded and hoping that someday proof will emerge to >decide the issue. I think that you and Budd are honest people. From your mouth, to God's ears! However, like _every_ other case, I don't expect that we'll find 'proof'. We can only depend on the testimony of our 22 witnesses (but one has passed away) and the evidence. Also, don't forget that the 'Witnessed' book was written by Budd Hopkins, not me. The book is full of _his_ views, not mine, regarding his investigative end of it. >On another subject, I do not approve of anyone publishing your >legal name without your permission. You have every right to a >"nom de guerre." Yes, of course you don't approve. You probably have good eithics. Most people do. Those that don't, are probably raising the next generation of people who have no values, no morals and no hearts. To each his own I'll guess. It'll be their heartache, not ours. >I think what is missing from the equation for many researchers >is a simple respect for others. Yes. I agree with you. Maybe someday they'll learn respect. However, first, they're going to have to get a cure for the bad case of "swamp gas" they've had over the years. Take care, Bob. Warm regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Greer as 'Activist Leader'? From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 03:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 04:02:44 -0400 Subject: Greer as 'Activist Leader'? In a message dated 97-06-04 10:56:17 EDT, you write: > Hello John, Don and all list members, > > I always have to laugh when I hear about CSETI's light flashing techniques. > As with everything else in ufology, there is little in the way of new > approaches. A man named Jack Maynard and the Great Lakes Flying Saucer Club > believed an "open mind" can help one make contact with aliens. Maynard used > a huge flashlight which he flashed off and on to attract the attention of > the saucers. > > When was this you ask? Back in the early to mid 1950's! > > Just another example of the progression we've accomplished over the past 40 > - 50 years in our approach to studying UFOs. :) > > Drew Williamson ________________________ Mr. Williamson: As someone who is familiar with Dr. Greer's total contribution to the field, attended both presentations in Washington, DC in April and about to attend the CSETI rapid response training program in Crestone, CO - two points: 1) I will wager you a dinner you would not find the totality of the rapid response techniques "laughable" if you elected to take the program and participate in an engagement, 2) The quality, quantity and diversity of extraterrestrial related phenomena research; credential level of participating researchers; awareness level among mainstream intellectuals; involvement of political representatives; quality of media representation (meaning entertainment product); and just about any other aspect of the UFO gestalt has steadily improved over the years and currently is at its apex - light years ahead of the first twenty years after Roswell. Dr. Steven Greer currently represents the most activist element in the field and will continue to upset those members of the community who have perhaps become too comfortable with passive, internalized development of the genre. Unless the researchers in the field have a better candidate ready to immediately take on the mantle of leadership of the activist wing, they should give serious consideration to a consolidation of support as opposed to a conintuation of the nit-picking status quo. Stephen Bassett Consultant Paradigm Research Group ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 6/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:37:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:37:50 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 6/6) Part 6. Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.6 - January 1995 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp The Carp Review - Part Six Oechsler's game plan worked for a while but clearly he did not expect anyone to get in his way. He severely underestimated his ability to control the people who knew what was going on with threats of law-suits, by calling them 'debunkers' or by trying to buy them off. The outcome? Oechsler had to resign from the field claiming that he needed to "extricate myself from this eternal abyss and return to the family life that I've sorely neglected". Curiously, at no time since the Carp 'Story' broke, have Oechsler, Macabbee, the Labaneks, Gill, or Charlebois pointed out any discrepancies in any of our findings, by letter to us, any of the UFO press or on the computer networks. Oechsler has only bothered to tell a few individuals and MUFON Headquarters in Seguin, Texas that he was going to sue us and anybody else involved in publicizing the true story because we were "taking his livelihood away". Of course, we would be remiss not to mention: a) the anonymous letter that was sent to Chris Rutkowski mailed from Albany NY and b) the posting of a series of 'reviews' of some of our published findings in this newsletter, by a mysterious person named 'Alex from Quebec'. On the National Capital FreeNet in Ottawa, 'Alex from Quebec' complained that we used character bashing and threatening of the 'witness' Gill to achieve our 'debunking' results. 'Alex' apparently didn't have computer network access (just like Oechsler!) and used a member of a small group of 'Carp: We want it to be true' die-hards in Ottawa to diseminate the results of an 'investigation'. The letter and the 'Alex' messages smacked of Oechsler's writing style and contained information to which only he and we were privy. And we thought the similarity between the names 'Oechsler' (Ex-Ler) and 'Alex' was interesting too... Gill did once threaten MUFON Ontario verbally on the phone, to Victor Lourenco, saying that she would sue us if we publicized her name, which might create problems for her at her work place. A good time to think about 'job security' after all the nonsense of her 'story', no? It seems to us that we've either done a good job in our research and investigation or the above mentioned individuals are 'patsies'. We don't think so. In conclusion our findings are as follows: 1) The Labaneks, Bobby Charlebois, Pavel Farfara and possibly others were involved in creating a Hoax video and distributing it as a recording of a 'UFO landing'. 2) That Susan Gill's story was used to pad the Carp event, even though her 'event' occurred (if at all) at a different time. 3) Oechsler used his manipulative ability to build a story even though he knew of the circumstances and exactly what was going on and together with Bruce Macabbee, intentionally misled the public, the media and ufology using unethical means, and bad judgement in order to benefit financially and personally. 4) That the Guardian video of a 'UFO landing' has, after analysis, proved inconclusive and likely is either a pick-up truck or (according to the RCMP investigation) a helicopter. THANKS We would like to thank all the people who helped us resolve this intriguing 'case' - resolved in our minds and in the minds of the following people: - First and foremost Graham Lightfoot for the tireless, countless hours he spent on this case on his own and with us, for not breaking down despite unscrupulous tactics by Oechsler & Oechsler's 'friends', - 'Our' group : Victor Lourenco, Drew Williamson, Sue Kovios, Chuck Courville, Wayne St. John and Vaughn Killin. - OICEPE's [formerly MUFON Quebec] Jacques Poulet, Christian Nault and the 'chief' - Christian Page, for their help in obtaining the RCMP report, putting the real story out and for the energy they expended on the actual investigation. - To all the people across Canada who nudged, prodded and guided - the independant Chris Rutkowski, Mike Strainic, Grant Wakefield, Mike McLarty, 'Sandy' and several others who don't want to be mentioned but who made major contributions. - Special thanks to Ian Rogers and Associates for the courage and tenacity they showed in ferreting out much truth on the case, without whose help we might never have found out as much as we did. - Thanks to Tom's wife Lise, she was beside him throughout the years of the case, everywhere we went - through rain, mud, snow, humidity, heat and our highs and lows. - Last but not least thanks to all those individuals around the planet whose encouragement and snippets of information added much to a very difficult and long task, especially MUFON Headquarters in Seguin, Texas, (thanks Dennis Stacy) and Vicky Cooper Ecker & shiney new husband Don Ecker of UFO MAGAZINE and UFOs Tonite for not being afraid of the truth. We consider this case closed and will now turn our attention to the completion of 'Carp: The Official MUFON Ontario Report'. We will keep you up-to-date on the inevitable attempts by Oechsler and that strange group of people in Carleton County to discredit us and will endevour to block all attempts by Oechsler to 'come-back'. EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 3/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:21:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:21:25 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 3/6) Part 3. Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.3 - July 1994 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp The Carp Review - Part Three On February 4, 1993 Graham and Oechsler went to the Labanek's where Leanne Cuzak interviewed Bob Oechsler and Diane Labanek for CJOH-TV, Ottawa. During this interview Labanek claimed that "a lot of others had seen the event that had transpired in my field". She didn't, however, seem to recall any names and in talking to many residents in the Manion Corners area, MUFON Ontario has not been able to find any other witnesses to the 'UFO Landing'. During the CJOH-TV interview that day Oechsler also claimed that he too had received a large number of calls from 'witnesses'. Graham wasn't aware of any calls to the Labanek's or anywhere else other than a few to Oechsler's hotel. Later that day, Graham Lightfoot and Oechsler met with a couple of high school girls in Almonte, a short drive from the Labanek's. They had called the Unsolved Mysteries Hotline, which again Graham wasn't aware of, to report that they knew who Guardian was. The name they gave wasn't Charlebois'. Oechsler told them who Guardian was. Oechsler, despite vowing not to, was blowing Guardian's cover'. On February 24, 1993, Labanek told Graham and Oechsler about a sighting that her mother had the previous week. Her mother had seen a 'craft' hovering "not fifty feet from the house" but was too scared at the time to call out to anybody. Later Labanek claimed that her husband saw a 'craft' around the same spot as the August '91 sighting. There were no explanations as to when or if there were any traces of this second 'landing'. Apparently, neither of these 'incidents' were of interest to Oechsler and he has only mentioned them very briefly since and only in passing! If these two events were 'real' why wouldn't he have investigated them too, instead of making such a fuss about the 'evidence' that he'd found nine months after the August '91 'landing'? Labanek's mother's and husband's 'experiences' would have surely produced more witnesses and ground effects?! Labanek has constantly complained about being harassed by 'low-flying' helicopters that blew shingles off her roof. When close neighbours were questioned by MufoN Ontario investigators about any low-flying choppers they might have observed, they only mentioned the regular Air Ambulance flights that passed overhead and the occasional military or Mountie aircraft. Not one mentioned choppers flying at unusually low altitudes - below the regulation five-hundred feet. At the time of describing her mother's 'sighting' to Graham and Oechsler, Labanek told of a white helicopter that passed over the house the following day. Subsequent investigation showed that it was a NATO aircraft on a training-exercise and that it too would not have been flying below the standard five-hundred foot level. Due to the proximity of the Labanek's neighbours it would be impossible for a helicopter to fly low enough to blow the shingles off one house and not be noticed by the residents of neighbouring houses. Labanek had told Graham that she knew nothing about UFOs, nor did she care about them or talk about them with anyone. And yet, when the Unsolved Mysteries show was being taped at her home, one of the 'grips' on the crew setting up a scene (in which Guardian was mailing a video) in Labanek's basement recreation room, found "cupboards containing many UFO books". On February 28, 1993 Graham wrote the following to Bob Kiviat, producer of the Unexplained Mysteries segment on 'Guardian'. Bob Kiviat, Producer Cosgrove/ Meurer Productions etc. Dear Bob, No doubt you've heard from Oechsler that there has been another sighting at Labanek's... on Feb 17th '93. It was Diane's mother who saw the event at 11:10 pm, very close to the house. She was so frightened that she didn't call to Diane and no one else saw it. She said the craft was right over the garden which means it was within 50 feet of the house. It hovered there for a short while and moved south over the swamp, in the direction that the 1989 'crash' light was seen. It came back beside the house and then moved off out of sight over the swamp. She described it as having a flashing light on top and lots of light all around it. She pulled the curtains from the window, but didn't wake anyone else in the house. The next day a white helicopter arrived and flew over the same course. Oechsler may or may not have told you he is working with the RCMP in trying to get Guardian's (Bobby Charlesbois) fingerprints. He tells me he is trying to get the RCMP to charge Bobby with a minor charge of forging DND documents to scare him into an admission. This is contrary to Oechsler's stated intent to Bobby, of not disclosing Bobby's identity if he wished to remain anonymous. I am trusting you to keep my comments to you in confidence from Oechsler as I will no doubt be working with him again on this case. I have no problem working with him at arms length, but his methods and rather chaotic behavior bothers me. He has told me that he wants to set up a 24-hours a day, two week watch at the the Labanek's since he feels the sightings will re-occur in the near future. He has no funding for this operation and told me he will seek help from your company in this regard. This may all be a good idea, but my feeling is that these things will run their course, with or without 24-hour surveillance. In fact I'd hazard a guess that the event is less likely to occur with surveillance. I've heard through the grapevine that the 'expert' on the Sightings show claims he doesn't know who Oechsler is, never met him. It seems Sightings showed the tape to this 'expert' and he said he didn't know what it was. Also MUFON is distancing itself from Oechsler after their credibility suffered with the Gulf Breeze story. It seems Oechsler wants to speak at their annual meeting and they don't want him there. Oechsler has a lot of background information and he certainly has a lot of contacts that are invaluable in doing research of this nature. He is persistent in looking for evidence, yet at the same time he often tries to build a case to fit his preconceived story line. This bothers me. We have talked about his ego and wanting credit for everything he learns. That's OK by me. In the Labanek case he used a lot of material that I got for him. The show implied that he found Labanek's place from the Guardian map. He could have spent weeks looking for the location on his own. But what bothers me the most is his tunnel vision, that only he can find the answers. - Graham Lightfoot On March 4, '93, Oechsler phoned Graham to boast that he had asked the RCMP to apply pressure the Guardian suspect, Bobby Charlebois, by charging him with forging Department of National Defence documents. In actual fact, the only way the RCMP would have paid any attention would have been if a formal complaint was filed by a Canadian Citizen. What Oechsler didn't tell Graham was that a complaint was lodged by the Labaneks who told the RCMP that they were being 'harassed' by helicopters flying over their property, below the 500 feet minimum set by the Federal Government. March 8, brought a call from Labanek to Graham. She complained about being 'harassed' by the RCMP. She said that they tried to get her to sign a 'confession' ( her word ) that craft she saw landing in her field on the night of August 18, 1991 was a helicopter! She also claimed that Bobby 'Guardian' Charlebois was also being 'harassed' by the Mounties and had hired a lawyer. Graham, at the time, was convinced that Labanek was telling the truth and felt that something should be done about her complaints. He called Charlie Greenwell at CJOH-TV in Ottawa and suggested that perhaps the station could cover the story on their local news. A report aired three days later on the 6 O'clock News. CJOH-TV's news item infuriated Oechsler. On March 29, he blasted Graham for giving the story to a TV station. This puzzled Graham - why would Oechsler take exception to him helping Labanek expose RCMP harassment? What Graham didn't know was that the complaint to the Mounties was lodged by the Labaneks, apparently at the urging of Oechsler, to increase the credibility of the Carp Case. A censored copy of the RCMP report on the case, obtained by Christian Page of The Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) in Quebec, told a different story. The Labanek's complaint was actually filed with the RCMP on February 10, 1993! The purpose of the investigation was to: [Quote from RCMP Report ] 1. ascertain if sufficient evidence was available to support a prosecution under the Aeronautics Act, Section 534 (2) (b) for flying below 500 feet 2. ascertain if in fact the object observed was an aircraft 3. ascertain if the craft observed (by complainant) is a UFO (as per complainant). [End Quote] The investigation by RCMP Constable De Haitre, started on February 15, 1993 with interviews of the Labanek's neighbours. De Haitre found that signs bearing the words 'Defence Canada', 'Killing Fields', and a 'Test Area' sign with a hand-painted tank and 'Air-Wolf' helicopter on it had been seen in a field that later proved to be owned by the Labanek's. Const. De Haitre observed in his report that the lettering-style on the signs was similar to those in the Guardian documents. Constable De Haitre was told by one of the Labaneks neighbours that another sign had the word 'Nuclear' mis-spelled as 'Nucleear'. Oechsler then directed his energies toward De Haitre and Canadian Airforce Major Patterson - which created more confusion. Oechsler told Constable De Haitre about finding Titanium at the 'landing site' in the Labanek's field and showed him some of the photographs that he had taken. He also told De Haitre that there were no traces of Strontium, which there would have been had the flares at the 'site' been of the military 'high-heat', type. Later, in the February/March issue of UFO Library Magazine, Oechsler wrote that he "had the smoking-gun in the pyrotechnical mystery". He now claimed that there was evidence of Lithium Carbonate which is not used in military flares, but rather in "expensive fireworks displays" (or perhaps in roadside emergency flares?). Fireworks that, of course, can be purchased at any 7-11 Store. Isn't it strange that he would wait a whole year to tell the world the results of his 'tests'? Oechsler had results of a test that refuted his completely baseless theory about military flares being used at the Carp 'landing site' and didn't publish them for over a year? And what did he do during that time? He travelled the lecture circuit making money telling people that the flares were definitely military in origin because of the strontium residue that he didn't find at the 'landing site'! Oechsler tried to cement his relationship with the RCMP. He told Constable De Haitre about his 'witnesses' and his 'analysis' of the Guardian video and suggested that Bobby 'Guardian' Charlebois be charged under the 'Fraudulent Cheque Act' for distributing forged Government documents (the 'Canadian Department of National Defence' documents). De Haitre concluded that no charges could be laid. De Haitre investigated Oechsler's claims about Titanium and Strontium flare-residue and included the results about the circumstances under which they could and could not be found and where, in the final RCMP report on the case. Several conversations and correspondence occurred between Oechsler and Constable De Haitre, all of which the Mountie, naturally, recorded in his notes on the case. MUFON Ontario has recently acquired a 150 page package of De Haitre's notes and correspondence from Oechsler to the RCMP. This package will be published shortly, as an appendix, in The MUFON Ontario Report on The Guardian Case. End of Part 3.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 4/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:37:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:37:27 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 4/6) Part 4. Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.4 - September 1994 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp The Carp Review - Part Four [UPDATE - In the last few months we have suggested that it was probably the Labaneks who lodged a complaint about low flying helicopters with The RCMP. We understand from a reliable source that in fact 'Sarah Janille' (a pseudonym), the self-styled 'abductee' who 'witnessed' the 'event' on the Labanek's property through 200 yards of thick spruce trees in front of her home, was the complainant. On Labour Day weekend Graham Lightfoot and Tom & Lise Theofanous visited 'Sarah Janille'. She agreed to send MUFON Ontario a letter explaining her situation/story and the fact that it may not have had anything to do with the Carp/Guardian Case. It was our intention to include her letter in this issue, perhaps absolving her from involvement in this controversy. At the time of writing this three weeks have passed and no letter. We know that 'Sarah Janille' will read this and hope that she will use the time between this issue and the next to get in touch with us. Our next issue _will_ contain names and the continuation of the story as we know it.] PART FOUR ENTER PAVEL FARFARA Graham Lightfoot, an Ottawa area independent ufologist, received a copy of a document from an acquaintance working at the local Township By-Law Inspectors Office. The document, an inspectors report, described an October 1990 encounter in which a By-Law inspector, who was photographing the 'Military Style' signs on and around the Labanek's property, met Diane Labanek's nephew Pavel Farfara. The young man talked to the inspector about his uncle Dr. Bill Labanek the local dentist, the army, UFOs, aliens and peace groups. He recounted how he'd heard about the signs, the army being involved and about UFOs landing on his aunts property. The inspector in his report observed that the signs looked hand-made and appeared not to be 'official'. The report was forwarded by the Township Office to the Department of National Defence. Farfara's statements to the By-Laws inspector raises the question: How could Farfara have known about UFOs landing on the Labanek property and 'military involvement' - an 'event' that was to take place ten months later in August, 1991? MUFON Ontario has recently learned that Farfara owns an older model white pick-up truck. It bears an oddly synchronistic similarity to the size and shape of what we suspect was the 'craft' in the Guardian video. Farfara was a university student in Ottawa in the recent past and, we suspect, had more than a passing interest in computer bulletin boards. This may explain why the Carlton University Psychology Department, faculty, UFO groups, and individual researchers received the Guardian Material - because all the recipient's names and addresses were being circulated on the International Computer Networks. THE 'MILITARY' SIGNS Why did the Labanek's insist, to MUFON Ontario investigators, that they had not been aware of the 'military' signs until 1993? In March of this year (1994) MUFON Ontario investigators visited most of the neighbouring homes around the Labanek's property - the 'site' of the Carp/Guardian 'landing' and interviewed the residents. During the course of those interviews a recently arrived near neighbour of the Labanek's - living two homes away - claimed that she had been walking her dog in the field behind the Labaneks property and came across a shed that contained 'military type signs and paraphernalia'. According to Dr. Labanek's statement to The RCMP investigator he'd seen the 'Killing Field' signs on his abandoned property in '91, '92 and again in '93! During one of Oechsler's [pronounced EX-LER] visits to the area in March, '93, he told Graham Lightfoot that he and the Labaneks went to their abandoned farm field where they gave him the 'military signs' and he took them back to Maryland with him. Later, when Tom & Lise Theofanous and Graham asked Labanek if she knew anything about the signs she said she knew "nothing about them, never saw them and never went to that property". AN INTERESTING TURN OF EVENTS Rather than fill the remainder of the space in this issue with the on-going nonsense of certain folk in West Carlton let us pass on to you something that gives us mixed feelings here at MUFON Ontario. During a visit to a UFO Conference in the Gulf Breeze area of Florida, Oechsler passed around the following letter - we reproduce it here in its entirety. ----- A FAREWELL NOTE FROM BOB OECHSLER (posted on various computer bulletin board systems and the Internet) As of September 1st 1994, I will be retiring from UFO research and investigations. My tenure in UFO research has in some ways been very rewarding, especially the many close friendships that I've developed and enjoyed over the years. In many other ways the effects of my involvement have been quite debilitating, especially to my family. I don't like what I've seen this phenomenon do to otherwise concerned rational people, including myself. The malicious libel, slander distortion and unchecked fabrication that runs rampant in the UFO field is destructive and counterproductive. My belief is that UFOs are indeed real and that the management and spokespersons for ufology suffer greatly from egocentricity and self-importance when the evidence is clear that few really care much beyond the novelty. Therefore, I've decided to extricate myself from this eternal abyss and return to the family life that I've sorely neglected. My final effort over the course of the summer will be dedicated to writing and publishing the truth of the matter regarding the Guardian UFO Landing investigation in the Carp area of Ontario, Canada. My archives and research will be turned over to a private research institute where my work will continue. The institute is dedicated solely to unmitigated academic discourse and scientific research into UFO organizations, government nor [sic] public media. The institute wishes to remain anonymous at this time. Anyone interested in a synopsis of my research and the discoveries that I've made over the years can contact Project Awareness for a copy of the video tape of my farewell presentation. Their Address is PO Box 730, Gulf Breeze, FL 32562. I do not share in the proceeds. After September 1st, I will not accept any orders for UFO materials which I have made available to assist in my research costs. For those of you who have maintained an interest in my research efforts, I thank you sincerely for your support and encouragement. It is because of you that I regret that this decision has become necessary. My final opinion is that there is no mystery to the UFO phenomenon, the real mystery involves the sociology of how it affects and polarizes those drawn to it. This may be the best reason for government secrecy. There is a great need for comprehensive change in the attitude and management of the current UFO organizational approach to UFO study if the subject matter is ever to receive and retain the attention of serious scientific professionals. My final recommendation for those seriously interested in the potential scope and possible origins of the UFO Phenomenon is to read "Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku (1994 Oxford University Press, nonfiction). Farewell all of my friends, colleagues and antagonists, good luck in all your endeavors. Signed: Bob Oechsler /familyman MUFON ONTARIO'S COMMENTS ON OECHSLER'S RESIGNATION This may be the first time that a self-styled 'Professional Full-Time Ufologist' quits as the result of controversy - it's somewhat reminiscent of Bill Moore's almost sudden departure. In his letter of resignation Oechsler writes: ..."the effects of my involvement have been quite debilitating"..."The malicious libel, slander distortion and unchecked fabrication that runs rampant in the UFO field is destructive and counterproductive." Interesting that Oechsler would write those words - that's the way we feel about his 'involvement' in ufology and particularly his 'work' on the Carp/Guardian Case. Oechsler seems to be trying to get sympathy from those few who are still willing to give his 'stories' credence with his careful, skillful use of words. He told some of his close associates that he plans to lie-low until "the heat dies down" waiting for us to publish our MUFON ONTARIO REPORT ON THE CARP/GUARDIAN CASE before mounting a defence. Oechsler seems to think that what he did will be forgotten with the passing of time and he will rise again, Phoenix-like, with yet another 'world's best UFO case'. MUFON Ontario wants Oechsler to know that he is wrong. Serious ufologists will not forget his unscrupulous actions and we too will be there in the future to point out his reputation to newcomers. Oechsler once called us "Those stupid fickle Canadians who don't know what they want or how to get it." But, the dogged persistence by Canadian MUFON organisations, other UFO groups and independent researchers across the country working together in uncovering the facts, accomplished what Oechsler never anticipated happening - the truth coming out. This despite the threat of libel lawsuits against our senior members, this publication, we writers, MUFON in Seguin Texas, The MUFON UFO Journal, - and several individuals who helped spread Part One of this story around the planet on the international computer networks. We've amused ourselves by contemplating a class-action suit against Oechsler to recover monies expended by us and spent by the ufologically curious but when a man is down...... End of Part 4.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 1/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:10:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:10:01 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 1/6) Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.1 - March 1994 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp The first in a series of articles. Tom Theofanous was an investigator with CUFORN, in Toronto, from 1987 to 1992. He and his wife, Lise, have been with MUFON Ontario since then. Tom is now Deputy Director of MUFON Ontario, in Toronto. --- This case has had much coverage in the media. Tabloid television shows like 'Unsolved Mysteries', 'Sightings' and 'Encounters' have given it much air-time, as have cable-tv stations all over North America. Internationally, magazines newspapers and news-letters have devoted hundreds of pages to it and UFO conferences around the planet have intrigued many thousands of attendees with it's seemingly startling details. 'Carp' has achieved 'One Of The Most Significant Cases In UFO History' status. You've probably heard, seen and read about it yourself. In this and succeeding issues we'll deal with the FACTS of the case. We'll describe the events, as told by the media and as we've experienced them - and we'll try not appear too judgemental. Beginnings - 1989 Tom Theofanous, working with The Canadian UFO Research Network (CUFORN), received a package from someone calling themselves 'Guardian'. It had no return address. "The package contained a story about a UFO crash that supposedly happened close to Carlton Place, which is about a half-hour drive from Ottawa", Tom said. "There was also a photo-copied picture of an Alien." "For the most part, we thought it was a joke. But, CUFORN director Harry Tokarz decided to call Arthur Bray, a well-respected UFO author and researcher who lives in Ottawa, and ask him if he had someone in the Carlton area who could check out the story for us. As luck would have it, Arthur knew a fellow who was fascinated by the field of ufology, Graham Lightfoot." Graham, with what was to become typical thoroughness, used the somewhat sketchy co-ordinates he got from Arthur Bray to not only pinpoint the 'UFO crash-site' near Manion Corners, but also locate a number of witnesses. One of those witnesses, Diane Labanek, claimed that on the night of November 4th 1989, she saw an intense, bright light pass overhead, heading towards a swamp at the far end of the field behind and south of her home. She said she also saw several helicopters earlier that evening using bright lights to scan the area. Another West Carlton resident recalled that that was the weekend when some cattle escaped from a nearby pasture and that it took till late Sunday to round them up. A couple told Graham about the wife being scared by a very bright light shone through their south-facing bathroom window. "It reached right down our hallway!". The wife also mentioned that she vaguely remembered hearing the sound of helicopters at the time. Others talked of "dogs and cattle being disturbed". Many people could think of absolutely nothing unusual happening during the course of the weekend, including a couple who had a telescope set-up. Graham reported those findings to CUFORN, along with results of his examination of the field and swamp behind Labanek's home - there were no signs on the ground, anywhere, of the heavy equipment that would be needed to recover a 'crashed craft'. His report closed with, "although I could find nothing conclusive to support or disprove any of the witnesses claims. I shall check back around the area later this summer." The same Guardian material had been sent to several other investigators, researchers and UFO groups and as the story spread, both the former Provincial Director of MUFON Ontario Clive Nadin, and the current Quebec Director Christian Page, visited the area on separate occasions, and spoke to the 'witnesses'. They confirmed Graham Lightfoot's initial findings and agreed with Tom & Harry at CUFORN that someone was "trying to put us on - a hoax!" Guardian Re-Surfaces - 1991 In the middle of October 1991 CUFORN began receiving more Guardian 'information' via the mail and all postmarked 'Ottawa'. An envelope with some documents that mention a 'conspiracy' between the Chinese and 'Grey Aliens that are planning to take over the world', arrived first. Then came a Polaroid photograph of a 'UFO' flying across an unidentified road. A while later came a black & white picture of a grey-type 'Alien'. The fourth delivery in the series was a package. It contained the now infamous VHS video tape with a green label on the cassette, with a thumb print and the word GUARDIAN printed on the label. There were also three playing cards in the package, all with hand written notes on them - an Ace, King and Joker. A photo-copied map showed the 'Grey's landing area', along with notes explaining that the flares in the video were used to help the UFO, which can out maneuver anything on the planet, fly under the radar and know where to land! There were also 'Canadian Department of National Defense documents' enclosed - which, upon later investigation, proved to be forgeries. These 'documents', it is thought, were designed to look like the official documents on UFOs that Canadian UFO author/researcher Stanton Friedman acquired, via 'The Freedom of Information Act', from the United States Government. The video - a few minutes long - showed two different angles of what Guardian alleges was an 'alien craft', on the ground. First, a long shot of bright lights clumped together to the right of the scene and what looked like four red emergency road flares or fires in barrels on the left side of the screen. The second scene showed the same clump of bright lights from approximately the same distance but more to the centre without any flares and the sound of a single dog barking in the distance. The third scene was only three frames long and was a close-up of a a pair of wipers half-way across a very Earth-bound vehicle! CUFORN pondered what to do with all the Guardian information that arrived in October of '91 and decided, that in view of the season - winter, that they would hold off visiting Carlton until after the spring run-off. Enter Oechsler At the beginning of March '92, Bob Oechsler (pronounced Bob Ex-ler) an American MUFON investigator - who describes himself a 'former NASA mission specialist' - called CUFORN from his home in Maryland. Apparently, he too had received a video and documents from Guardian, although when comparisons of the two videos were discussed, his had an additional scene - a somewhat closer one minute shot of the 'alien craft'. His version also had a couple of minutes worth of the windshield, plus several still shots of the 'Grey Aliens'. The most important difference, however, was that his version of the tape had no audio-track at all - "it seems it was intentionally removed", says Tom Theofanous. Oechsler had shown the tape to Bruce Macabbee and they agreed that what they saw was a UFO and should be investigated further - and that's why Oechsler called Tom at CUFORN. They agreed they would meet in Carlton, Ontario on May 10th 1992. Tom then called and spoke with Graham Lightfoot, for the first time, and Graham agreed to act as guide for the May meeting. It transpired that Graham worked for The O.F.A - The Ontario Federation of Agriculture - and knew the Carlton area and its farmers well. The First Visit On May 10th, Mother's Day, 1991, Torontonians, Tom & Lise Theofanous, Victor Lourenco, 'Vaughn', Drew Williamson, Harry Tokarz and Wayne St. John met with Oechsler, his son and Graham Lightfoot at the motel the Oechslers were staying at in West Carlton, near Ottawa, Ontario. They all had breakfast together as Oechsler told many, many fascinating stories. Eventually they ended up in Oechsler's motel room to compare their copies of the Guardian video. "Oechsler, despite being an expert in video analysis, had a great deal of difficulty connecting my video camera up to the tv set in his room so that we could play back the Guardian videos. In retrospect, his combination of technical ineptness and more story telling seemed to be a stalling tactic", said Tom. Eventually, the group set off in a convoy of vehicles to examine the area depicted in Guardian's map. They stopped at a spot off Highway 7 near Manion Corners and Graham pointed out the direction from which the 1989 'UFO' had come when it 'crashed', and where the Labanek's house was in relation to where the group was standing. Oechsler seemed to be stalling once more, shooting video of everything. Finally, they set off again. "This time Oechsler took the lead, with me following him and Graham who's supposed to be our guide following me!" Tom says. "I thought at the time that this was pretty odd. How did Oechsler, who supposedly had never been to Canada, let alone this area before, know his way, using side-roads and making the correct turns toward our destination?" Earlier, Oechsler had asked the Toronto group to check for anomalies on their compasses while they were driving, because the Guardian papers described magnetic changes in certain parts of the area the group was travelling in. "So, we're driving down a small hill when Oechsler braked suddenly up ahead of us, stopped and came back to our car to tell me that he had found an anomaly on his two compasses", Tom recounts, "now, he had both of his laying in the back of his pick-up on the metal floor where they were bouncing around. His son was keeping an eye on them from the cab. I told him that the three compasses, we were holding in the palms of our hands, in our car didn't waver at all. But, he insisted that he'd go back up the hill, by himself, and check again." While the rest of the group stood around waiting for Oechsler, Drew Williamson noticed a Stop-sign at the end of a long driveway leading to an abandoned farmhouse with a For-Sale sign on it. Tom continues - "I looked through my binoculars at the Stop-sign and saw that it was propped up by rocks. There were other signs around it that read 'Do Not Enter' and 'DND Killing Fields'. The last one had pictographs of tanks, helicopters and weapons on it and appeared to be riddled with bullet-holes. "So, out of curiosity, we went over to the signs and looked more closely." "We found tracks left by cars and what might have been four-wheeled vehicles, leading into the property. We felt that perhaps the field around the old farm house was being used for 'War Games' - or maybe even was the location used for the Guardian video." "Why? Because the terrain was perfect - lots (200 acres) of open field. I also noticed a dog barking up at the house at the top of the hill." said Tom. This would become significant later in identifying the possible location of the Guardian video shoot. "Eventually, we continued along Corkery Road. But, when I mentioned to Oechsler that we should be interviewing the people in the neighbourhood we were passing, who were out sitting in their front gardens or working on their lawns, he insisted that we look for the 'crash' or 'landing' sites." Guardian's map described an area about one and a quarter miles square, which consisted of dense, knee-high scrub, and wet, swampland. The group headed toward it, using a path beneath high-tension power transmission lines that cut across below the southern end of the Labanek's property. Most of them had great difficulty with the rough conditions and became very tired, annoyed by biting mosquitoes and soaked by the swampy ground. They gave about a half way into the swamp and headed back to the back to the parking lot. Tom picks up the story again: "Bob and his son continued to look for the landing site as the rest of us left the swamp in a couple of different groups. Lise, Drew, Wayne and I left first and drove off looking for a drink of cold pop." "When we got back to the parking lot twenty minutes later, the second group out had left a note on our windshield saying they'd meet us at a restaurant twenty minutes away in Carp. We left a note on the Oechsler's truck windshield telling them where we'd be. "The first of our group to arrive at the restaurant ordered their food and twenty minutes later the rest of us arrived and placed our orders." "Thirty minutes later, as Oechsler and his son were walking through the door, I jokingly said: I bet he'll say he found the spot!" "As he sat down, I asked him what had happened. He smiled and said he'd found the spot." "I asked how he'd managed to do that when we'd left him a about a mile from his car in a dense swamp halfway to the alleged site and it was getting dark. There simply hadn't been enough time to get there examine the 'site' and get back out to his truck and drive to the restaurant. He just smiled, but didn't answer." After they finished their dinner, Drew, Victor and Vaughn decided to leave for Toronto. Graham suggested that the remainder should go talk to the Labanek, and he and Harry left ahead of Tom & Lise and the Oechslers, since Oechsler senior was still eating. The seven of them would meet at the corner by the Labaneks. "Lise, Wayne and I confronted Oechsler out in the parking lot, where the three of us had gone to discuss the days events privately." "I asked him what he was trying to pull here. He responded by asking "what's wrong with trying to make a buck?", I answered that there was nothing wrong with making money as long as we didn't compromise our ethics." "Oechsler came back with: "No matter what or how good the story is, 50% of the people will believe you, 50% wont. All you have to care about is the 50% that will". "It was at that point", recalls Tom, "that I decided to back away from the investigation for a while to see what Oechsler would do." They joined the others at Manion Corner by the Labaneks house - Graham had knocked on their door but there was no one home. So, they waited, enjoying a pleasant early summer evening, talking. The Labaneks didn't get home till after 10 p.m, which the group felt was late to do an interview. Graham and Oechsler would come back the next morning and talk to them Tom finishes up this part of the story: "I told Graham about the conversation that I had in the parking lot of the restaurant with Oechsler, after he left the restaurant. Then Lise, Harry, Wayne and I left for Toronto, shaking our heads."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 2/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:14:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:14:52 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 2/6) Part 2. Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.2 - May 1994 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp Carp Review Part 2. The following morning, Graham Lightfoot, Oechsler and his son met and drove to the Labanek's home at Manion Corners near Carp, Ontario. Graham reintroduced himself and asked Diane Labanek if she remembered him. "Vaguely" she said, and then remembered their conversation about a bright light that had headed towards the swamp at the bottom of her field back in 1990. When asked if she had seen anything strange since then, she described an event that happened in their field. It seems she was putting her children to bed one night in August 1991 and something caught here eye from the second floor bedroom. Labanek described seeing what she thought was a fire, or perhaps flares burning at the far end of the field behind the house and as she watched, a 'craft' landed next to the fire/flares. "After a few minutes, maybe five or eight, the very bright lights on the craft went out - just like you turn off a light-bulb. And soon after, the flares went out. Then some minutes later, a helicopter came and hovered over the area - like they were looking for something" she said. When she was asked later why she hadn't called the fire department about a 'fire' burning in her field, which was tinder dry in the August heat, she replied "I didn't think that anyone would believe and I thought I'd get into trouble!" On Oechsler's next visit to the Labanek's, she was asked to draw what she had seen. She drew a craft that she described as being silver/grey, with a zigzag design around it, sitting on three blocks which, coincidently, matched a drawing that was in one of the Guardian packages (see MufoN Ontario Newsletter, Volume 1.1, page 14) - a drawing that she maintained she'd never seen. Labanek was able to see an object and details that were over 2200 feet away in the dark and brightly lit from the bottom up. Guardian's video camera, which was closer, couldn't see the 'thunderbolt insignia' around the 'craft' or the three 'blocks' beneath the craft. The video clearly shows the 'craft' to be red and not silver/grey. MORE ON GUARDIAN'S VIDEO In the version of Guardian's video that was sent to CUFORN, the Canadian UFO Research Network, the last three frames show a windshield with the wiper blades in an upright position. Why would Guardian put those frames that appear to have been shot at night with artificial light, on the tape? Were those frames designed to give a clue as to what the craft really was? In the course of one of many discussions between the investigators, Tom Theofanous asked Oechsler what he thought about the windshield footage on Guardian's video. Oechsler replied that it wasn't a windshield but rather the design on the side of the 'craft'. Tom asked how he'd come to that conclusion? Oechsler replied "Well there's Diane's evidence together with my expertise in analysis - that's how." Oechsler had once again brought up his 'qualifications and expertise', which he seemingly did and still does at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately, Oechsler's qualifications on the subject of windshields were definitely non-existent when compared to Tom's - he's been running a windshield repair company for the past seven years! 'FIELD INVESTIGATOR' OECHSLER Oechsler and Graham went out to the field after their first talk with Diane Labanek. The previous night, at a restaurant, Oechsler had claimed that he had found the 'landing site' and now insisted that they look for 'evidence'. He spotted an area of grass that had been "dug up during the landing". Graham, who works for the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, patiently explained that skunks caused that kind of damage while looking for grubs. Oechsler's biography touts his experience in dealing with the UFO phenomenon and his expertise in 'field work', an expertise not on display that day. "He seemed not to know what he was looking for or anything much about country nature" Graham observed later. Oechsler's inexperience continued to make to show as he pointed to vegetation that had "been treated with microwave radiation"! How did he come to that conclusion without using any instruments? "It's very dry and brittle, so it's obviously been irradiated" Oechsler said. The 'irradiated' plants were Juniper bushes that always look that way after a Canadian winter - bleached, dried and flattened by heavy snow, probably in much the same way as in Maryland, Oechsler's home-state. Graham and Oechsler continued to examine what Oechsler was convinced was the landing site. He then asked Graham if he had anything to put samples in. Graham thought that it was extremely odd that an investigator of Oechsler's 'calibre' would show up with no sample containers and handed over some empty film canisters for Oechsler's samples. On returning to Labanek's house later that day, Labanek told them that her husband Bill had "gone for milk" at around 10:00pm on the evening of the 'landing' and had missed it. Bill Labanek had been doing a 'milk-run' on the night in 1989 when there had been a 'crash' in their swamp. He didn't seem to be at all concerned about what had transpired on his property on either occasion. He didn't bother to take the time to go look at the spot which his wife said had been a 'UFO landing site'. Diane Labanek claims to have gone only part way into the field the day after the 'landing', looked briefly in the direction of the 'landing site', didn't see anything, and walked back to the house. She had told no one about what she saw that night until Graham and Oechsler asked her about it. Why didn't she walk the remaining couple of hundred yards to where this 'amazing event' took place? She says that it was "a beautiful summer evening" too. That evening Graham called Tom in Toronto and recounted the days events. They discussed Oechsler and his amateurish approach to the investigation and observed that a pattern seemed to be emerging. It seemed that Oechsler was incompetent, egocentric and attempting to steer the case and its facts to fit in with his own agenda. HELICOPTERS As a follow-up to Diane Labanek's assertions about helicopter activity following the 'landing', Investigator Drew Williamson called the Department of National Defence (DND) on May 12, 1992. He was told that the military held exercises every August using helicopters and that they had to get permission from landowners for the choppers to land in their fields. If an emergency were to arise and a helicopter had to land DND would pay compensation for any damage caused. On July 12, 1992, Graham made a number of calls to various military establishments to get information on helicopter activity. He was told that they don't use flares during landings at night, but do use Chem-Sticks that glow in the dark. Captain Mark Bigoutte said that although choppers were on exercise on August 19, 1991, they were many miles to the west of Manion Corners. On July 14, 1992 Oechsler arrived back at Graham's place and the next day they went to Uplands Royal Canadian Airforce base and showed Colonel Cajo Brando and Major Norm Patterson the Guardian video - over and over. Colonel Brando didn't think it was a helicopter and when shown a photograph taken by one of the Labanek children of a Huey Helicopter that Diane Labanek maintained had 'buzzed' their home after the 'landing', he said, "It's not one ours, they were decommissioned (taken out of active-service) two years ago." Brando suggested that it may have been an American chopper that had come across the border without notifying Canadian authorities - something which, apparently, happens often. Later that day, Graham and Oechsler returned to the Labanek's and collected some fifteen soil and plant samples from the supposed 'landing' site. On a radio call-in show, March 30th '93, Oechsler claimed to have collected "over a hundred samples from all over the area"! UNSOLVED MYSTERIES Oechsler, in a conversation with Graham and Tom expressed interest in getting the case on the 'Unsolved Mysteries' tv show, feeling that it might flush Guardian out. Tom countered that it might be better to further investigate the claims of the 'witnesses' before giving the case national tv exposure. What neither Tom nor Graham knew at the time, was that Oechsler had already gone ahead and made a deal with Unsolved Mysteries to shoot a segment on the Carp Case in the fall. In the following three months preparations were made for the shooting of the 'Unsolved' segment with Graham received many calls from and eventually met the tv show's Bob Kiviat and Bob Wise. Oechsler flew into Ottawa in mid October 1992 with the 'Unsolved' crew and interviewed Major Patterson about the Guardian 'Documents'. Graham, feeling as he did about Oechsler's 'slant' on the case was very reluctant to appear on the show and it took many calls from various production people to eventually talk him into appearing. On November 15, 1992 participants in the Carp segment gathered at General Assembly for the taping. Graham met Bruce Macabbee for the first time and, to use his words, "was not very impressed." He put his contribution 'in the can' the next day at the Labanek's. GUARDIAN REVEALED In the course of a meeting on November 19, 1992 Graham learned that a man named Andy Williams claimed that he knew who Guardian was. Graham and Oechsler arranged to meet with Williams the next day in Ottawa. Andy Williams explained that a friend of many years, Bobby Charlebois, had an on-going interest in UFOs and had called himself 'Guardian' over the course of those years. He went on to give details about Bobby Charlebois and his 'interests'. Oechsler, inexplicably, gave Andy Williams much material regarding the Carp case. On November 22nd, Graham discovered that a co-worker knew Bobby Charlebois well - his sister, Meg had dated the Guardian 'suspect'. Graham talked with Meg and she confirmed that Charlebois was an avid UFO buff and had discussed the phenomenon on many occasions in the past. Despite having signed an 'exclusive' with 'Unsolved Mysteries' to not do another show until 30 days after their 'airing' of the Carp Case, Oechsler records a segment for 'Sightings' in January of 1993 without telling Graham until after the fact. Interestingly, Dr. A.J. Quarington a 'witness' participates in 'Sightings' after refusing to meet or even discuss the case with Graham and Clive Nadin (the former Director of MufoN Ontario) in the early stages of the investigation. FINGERPRINTS On February 1, 1993 Oechsler and Graham meet with reporter Lois Tuffin, who also knows Bobby Charlebois well. Oechsler asked her to deliver a large package of UFO material to Charlebois in the hopes of getting his fingerprints. She did so, but the package was returned to her an hour later. The following day Oechsler collected the package from Lois and took it to the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) to have it checked for fingerprints. There were none and the feeling was that Charlebois had out-smarted them, wiping the package clean. It seems that Charlebois has something to hide. Diane Labanek, on hearing Bobby Charlebois name said that she had known him "for a while" and that he was a good friend who visited often. Oechsler asked her to try and get Charlebois' fingerprints from any drinking glasses that he might use. Labanek claimed that Charlebois always wiped them clean. End of Part Two
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 The Carp Case - A Review (Part 5/6) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:30:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:30:05 -0400 Subject: The Carp Case - A Review (Part 5/6) Part 5. Originally published in The MUFON Ontario Newsletter Volume 1.5 - November 1994 The Carp Case - The MUFON Ontario Version by Tom Theofanous & Errol Bruce-Knapp The Carp Review - Part Five On May 9th, l993 Tom, Lise and Graham drove to Almonte to talk to Bobby (Guardian) Charlebois without success. The following day Oechler called Graham and was very upset at the attempt to talk to Charlebois which puzzled Graham. May 28th Graham and Oechsler met with Gary Osterbrook a polygrapher. Oechsler and Osterbrook had agreed on a price of a thousand dollars to conduct two lie-detector tests - one on Diane Labenek the other with Susan ('Sarah Janille') Gill - Oechsler's mysterious 'Canadian Government Official'. Oechsler used one of of Bruce Maccabee's personal cheques made out for $1,000 (US) which he gave to Osterbrook as payment for the testing. In 1993, 'The Air Report' (Associated Investigator's Report #1) raised the issue of Maccabee's possibly using The Fund for UFO Research's money for personal gain: [quote] Dr. Maccabee has made at least one trip to Ontario to investigate the case. It is not known whether any Fund for UFO Research monies were expended in this investigation. [quote ends] Maccabee responded in his 'Rebuttal Paper', page l8 item 27: [quote] ....a simple question which could have been answered before the publication [of the 'Air Report'] by a simple phone call to the Chairman, Richard Hall, or to any of the other members of the Executive Board. The answer is NO (a thousand times, no). [quote ends] An odd choice of words. Surely a coincidence? A check, signed by him, for $1,000.00 to Gary Osterbrook the polygrapher? "The answer is NO (a thousand times No.)"! Bruce Maccabee, the Maryland State Director for MUFON, and MUFON's crack photographic and video-analyst supposedly had no interest in the Carp Case other than analysing the Guardian Video - he declared it to be an 'authentic' landed UFO, on televison! More from 'THE AIR REPORT' [quote] Dr. Maccabee also maintains a relationship with Robert Oechsler, a man whose motives in the field are at best mercenery. He has at one point or another involved himself in virtually every aspect of ufology. Mr. Oechsler has been variously described as a clown, a fraud and even a con-man (in 1991 he attempted to involve several of his then friends in the UFO field in some sort of bizarre pyramid scheme in which participants were to send him money via Federal Express (so as to avoid federal laws governing mail fraud)--telling at least one associate that he intended to make several hundred thousand dollars). Mr. Oechsler who represents himself as a former "NASA Mission Specialist" has participated with Dr. Maccabee in the photographic analysis of the Gulf Breeze material. [Commander Gene Cernan USN (Retd. and former NASA astronaut, reported that Oechsler had NEVER held the position he claims in NASA, but that it was possible that he had worked as a junior technician either with NASA or with a NASA sub-contractor, in which case his name would not have been known anyway.] Mr. Oechsler has also made a series of fantastic claims concerning his alledged discoveries of various secret government UFO related projects including an operational anti-gravity chamber, sophisticated anti-alien defense installations, a wide-ranging program to educate the general public as to the reality of the UFO phenomenon and others too tedious to detail here. These "discoveries" were published by Timothy Good in his book "Alien Liaison" in England and more recently in "Alien Contact" here in the United States. It is virtually certain that most if not all of Mr. Oechsler's claims are fraudulent and he has intimated to Walt Andrus, International Director of the Mutual UFO Network, that he fabricated at least some of the material. The most important point here is not Oechsler's selling of this material to the television shows 'Unsolved Mysteries' and 'Sightings' but Dr. Maccabee's clear support for the validity of the case. Dr. Maccabee spoke in support of the authenticity of the Guardian video on at least one television program and before the large audience of a UFO conference in Silver Spring, MD. Richard Hall, the Fund's (for UFO Research) newly elected chairman, also said that he was equally perplexed by some of the UFO cases that Maccabee had promoted such as Gulf Breeze and the "Guardian" case. [quote ends] To which Maccabee responded in his 'Hot Air' rebuttal: [quote] The writer charges that my support for UFO cases which, in the mind of the writer at least, are "obviously" poor cases or frauds (New Zealand, Kirtland Landing Case, Gulf Breeze, Guardian) has caused other researchers to waste time and money carrying out their own investigatlons. (How horrible!) [quote ends] Not just in the mind of the writer of the 'Air Report' but also on the lips of many of ufology's leading lights. Not 'horrible!', just an immense waste of time, energy and money on a patent hoax. And how callous of a man who for many years was trusted and respected by his peers. Bruce Maccabee's motive and actions throughout the course of Oechsler's investigation are highly suspect and we feel that Maccabee owes an explanation to all those in our field who have trusted his judgment over the years. The question is, is Maccabee being manipulated by Oechsler? Is he being conned or have his judgement and analytical capabilities become desperately impaired? During the May 28th, meeting between Bob Oechler, Graham Lightfoot and Gary Osterbrook, Susan Gill was introduced to Graham for the first time. Gill is the External Affairs 'witness' to the event that took place in the Labanek's field. Her story or at least one version that she has given: On a rainy night Susan Gill's dog began barking at the front window and she got up to see what was being barked at. As she looked through her window she noticed, through the trees that border her lot, a set of peculiar red lights glowing across the road in the Labanek's field - she assumed they were fireworks. Other coloured lights rose up over the treetops and instantly vanished. When she did not see any fireworks explode she got curious and went out to her driveway to take a closer look. Suddenly in front and above her was an object with swirling lights. As the object descended she tried, unsuccessfully to get back into her house and she claims that the Labenek dogs could be heard "barking up a storm in the distance" - this despite the fact that on the Guardian video only one dog is heard and only in the view of the 'craft' with the flares extinguished. Weeks later Gill recalled in detail being abroad the craft and conversing telepathically with the alien occupants and an oriental looking 'being' in charge. She also remembered a car going by in front of her house just after a helicopter flew over the Labanek's field. She has given several different versions of the car and driver story: It was the Guardian who stopped to ask her if she was OK, another that he stopped and was very rude to her and yet another story that she thought it might have been the Guardian but took note of his licence number anyway despite the fact that she was very groggy and the car speeding away. Gill claims that on the night she had these experiences it was raining, which on investigation proved to be the night before Diane Labanek and the Guardian claimed to have seen and videoed the 'landed craft'. But, what is most intriguing is Gill's ability to see through the deep stand of thick, tall spuce trees between her and the 'landing site' in the Labanek's field. Gill is adamant about dogs barking - both hers and the Labeneks, despite the fact that on the Guardian video only one dog is heard and only in the view of the 'craft' with the flares extinguished. Recently, Gill told our investigators that she was sure that her 'event' took place on "a rainy night", which she maintains was the night before Labanek's 'sighting'. The Guardian video shows neither rain nor wetness which leads us to believe that either Labanek and Guardian were lying or Susan Gill was making up her story. Gill sent a signed letter to a third party (who wishes to remain annonymous) complaining about "Graham Lightfoot and his associates". She wrote: [quote] Mr. Lightfoot first presented himself as having a professional background as a reporter and as a serious UFO Investigator. I had indicated that I was writing a book involving UFOs, Aliens, Psychic Phenomena, a female abductee and an investigator and showed him not only the first chapters but also the story line. Although fictitious characters and incidents are in the story and it is to be published as fiction I'm disturbed by Mr. Lightfoot's indiscretion at revealing it's contents. [quote ends] It's strange that Gill would dennounce Graham in her letter since she had already shown both her story and outline to Oechsler - he had it when Graham first met Gill. Why would she be so upset with something that she thought Graham had done when she already knew Oechsler had the story ready to go to print in the 'UFO Library' magazine? She was present when Graham read over Oechler's copy for the magazine and also Bob left his name out. She was not at all concerned that Bob was using her story, and never suggested that she as at any subsequent meeting with Graham. If, as Gill writes "fictitious characters and incidents are in the story and it is to be published as fiction" - why did Oechsler treat her story as fact, connecting it in the October/November l993 issue of 'UFO Library' to The Guardian Story? In the second paragraph of his 'Insiders Report', Oechsler used part of the opening chapter of Gill's novel without giving her a writer's credit - curiously, the same parts of her book that she claims Graham was indiscreet about. None of the 'facts' in this paragraph of Oechsler's "surrealistic screams, excruciating cries of tormented agony that warned off all attempts by residents to investigate, startling screams like no other sound experienced before by anyone...." have been reported or verified. We can only point out that these facts are the opening of Susan Gill's Horror Novel. In the letter Gill also complained that: [quote] Derogatory remarks are being made by Mr. Lightfoot and his Associates a out Mr. Oechler and myself that are unacceptable and are sufficient grounds for a lawsuit. [quote ends] The third party replied in a letter to Susan Gill: [quote] Please be advised that I am in receipt of your signed letter of the above date. Please be advised also that I have taken your letter very seriously. As you so correctly pointed out in your letter it is not wise to go by hearsay, for instance, I have been led to believe that all along and from many independent sources that you were indeed victim of the extraordinary phenomenon known as 'UFO Abduction' and was suprised to learn from your letter that a misunderstanding has occurred. I was not aware that your only participation in the events that transpired in you neighborhood was by way of research for a book of fiction you wre writing as opposed to a personal experience. May I apologize for this misconception and stress that I will indeed pass you message on to whoever I hear expressing an incorrect view on this matter. Had you chosen to simply write to set the record straight about the above, I would have been agreeable to respect your total confidentiality. Good luck in your work of fiction. [quote ends] Gill has not responded to the preceeding letter and all of this begs the question: How valid were the lie-detector tests on Gill? Unless of course the questions asked of her during the polygraph testing skirted around the situation or that she is a confabulator (a pathological liar) - someone who believes what they are saying even if the events they describe never happened. Of course we can only surmise! Diane Labanek was also scheduled to take a polygraph test but changed her mind at the last minute - perhaps realising that she might not 'pass'. By that time there were many people asking a lot of questions about her involvment in the Guardian Caper. --- [The following are excerpts from Armen Victorian's August 1991 Review of Chapter 10 of 'Alien Liaison' by Timothy Good and associated documentation & correspondence, posted on an InterNet Computer Conference - AltParaUFO on 20 April 1994. The name Armen Victorian is a pseudonym of an energetic British researcher.] Timothy Good's latest book, was published by Century in May, 1991. Soon afterward, Mr. Good received wide media coverage largely due to ONE chapter in his book which added "punch" to make it a best seller. In England, he appeared on TV programs and 'live' radio shows, which, via satellite link, also helped to bring his close associate, Mr. Bob Oechsler into the limelight. Bob Oechsler provided the main substance for 'Cosmic Journey' - Chapter 10. In the conversation I had with Oechsler on 10 August 1991, when it was becoming clear that many areas in Chapter 10 raised very serious questions, he said that I should know by now that Good is not a researcher, but an editor who collects material and puts it together... ...I then contacted Mr. Robert W. Kirchgessner, who was the Director of Special Development Group, Ringling Bros. & Barnum and Bailey, at that time. Mr. Kirchgessner, with his direct answers, cast a great deal of light on the subject matter, thereby revealing the length and breadth of distortions Good and Oechsler went to present THEIR own version of 'Cosmic Journey'. I asked Mr. Kirchgessner to describe what took place in the course of their contacts with Oechsler and Good. He said: "Robert Oechsler's situation is ah, let me put it like this... Robert Oechsler was recommended to us by Timothy Good, we met with the man ONE time. We determined very very quickly that he was a total INCOMPETENT." "This fact was illustrated when the gentleman approached us, coming in and telling us everything from the fact that he could deliver us a UFO, to whether he had a government agency watching him." "We were sitting in a restaurant here in Orlando with him. We invited him down here, paying all his costs, to speak to him....." [This particular factor was confirmed to me by Mr. Robert Kenneston, in a separate telephone conversation with him in his Los Angeles office, on 12 Aug. 1991 {tape recorded conversation}. Mr. Kenneston was a witness to that meeting, and held a separate discussion with Oechsler, as part of the same meeting.] ".....trying to do the best research that we could. And he perceives and comes out with the statement that the CIA people are tracking him and they were sitting and watching him in the restaurant." "The man was...he was not in touch with reality at the time in my opinion. We had elected not to proceed with him in any way, shape or form. The only question that I felt remaining with the call that I received regarding Robert Oechsler, was whether or not somebody else in the Ringling Corporation had hired him to do additional research without my knowledge. Which was always possible within our company". Author: "Yes, Mr. Chuck Smith..." "...right, Chuck Smith was my immediate superior. Chuck met various people, he usually would utilize them to continue to look into subject matters, if they had any knowledge at all. To my knowledge at this time, he had never spoken to nor had he been in communication with, nor had gone any further than my initial confidential report to him, stating that this (Mr. Oechsler) is one gentleman that we should NOT do business with. And to this date that is the position that Chuck has taken in regards to this." I asked Mr. Kirchgessner how Timothy Good became involved? He replied that they decided not to have anything to do with Good due to the high fees he had asked for. Mr. Kirchgessner's answer to this question is quite contradictory to what Good has written in his book. On page 151 of 'Alien Liasons', Good writes: [Quote] Following further discussions, I was invited to become the 'Official Consultant on UFO research' to the Special Development group. A personal meeting in Orlando, Florida, was pre-requisite, the director said, and since I would be visiting Gulf Breeze during October, I made arrangements to fly to Orlando. Unfortunately, DIFFICULTIES with airline scheduling arose, allowing inadequate time for the trip, and I was obliged to postpone the meeting. [quote ends] I put to Mr. Kirchgessner what Mr. Good had published, he said "It is simply not true, we dropped him because of the sums he was asking as his fees. Then Mr. Robert Oechsler appeared on the horizon." Mr. Kirchgessner told me that Oechsler had asked for either $1200 or $2000 per day for his work (he couldn't remember the exact figure off-hand). He had added that they asked Captain Gene Cernan, ex-NASA astronaut, who is a director on their Board, to check Oechsler's credentials regarding his NASA background. Cernan reported that Oechsler had NEVER held the position he claims in NASA, but that it was possible that he had worked as a junior technician either with NASA or with a NASA sub-contractor, in which case his name would not have been known anyway. I called Gene Cernan on 8 Aug. 1991. After confirming what Mr. Kirchgessner had said was correct, Cernan added that the 'Cosmic Journey' project never went any further than the drawing board. {Taped telephone conversation}. The day before, 7 Aug. 1991, I contacted Miss Susan Brewer, who works with Mr. Kirchgessner and was a witness to the Orlando meeting, between Oechsler and the Ringling Bros people. I read her the passage on page 197 of 'Alien Liaison' in which Good states that the project ('Cosmic Journey') had the approval of President Bush and Vice-President Quayle. She answered: "As far as Bob (Kirchgessner) is concerned, when he worked with Gene Cernan, Cernan presented the project to Vice President Quayle representing President Bush, then yes, I would assume it would go to the top." [Note: The way in which Good has referred to this point in his book adds more vigor to his version of the story, as to 'Cosmic Journey' initially being a government based project]. She further added, "Let me tell you that when Mr. Oechsler came here to Orlando, I was present. We were very kind and polite, but we realized that he was a little off the wall". I also put to her what Mr. Kirchgessner had told me about Oechsler's promise to provide them with a genuine UFO. She immediately said, "A genuine UFO plus a spaceship". I asked her whether it was in writing or verbal. She replied "Verbal, but there were four other people at the table, you know, they fell off their chairs!". I asked if she could give me their names as a matter of record. She answered, "I was one of them, the other young man was Brownell Schlubach. He used to work with us at SDG, Bob Kirchgessner, and the other gentleman's name was Don Branch, the Manager of Design for SDG". She further added that "after we realized what sort of person we were dealing with, we would not have anything more to do with a person with such a fanatical presentation". End of Part 5.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:17:08 -0400 Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze Hi all, I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book and the Gulf Breeze sightings in general? Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 08:39:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:24:15 -0700 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Subject: David Adair (CSETI witness) To Robert and all, Last Saturday and Sunday I was in San Diego and met Dave Adair at the Whole Life Expo. I stayed and listed to his 2-hour talk. Very interesting. He says he still has experiments going up in shuttles and contracts with the European Space Agency. These are points from which to start a background check as he emphatically said he does not and has not worked for NASA. During his talk, I had trouble with the following claims: 1) He put pressure on a senator or congressman (I forget who this was) to obtain a 1.1 million dollar grant to build his rocket. 2) He actually obtained the money and built a "fusion containment" engine in 1971 at the age of 17!(Born in 1954 and is now 43) That he did work out equations on a board that were similar to those of Steven Hawking and met with Steven who told him that some of this math came to him (SH) in dreams as well. 3) That, at the age of 17, he was allowed to ignite and fly this fusion rocket from White Sands Missile Range in NM aimed at Area 51 in Nevada. That it worked the first time without prior testing. That a famous rocket scientist (...Rudolph) attended this momentous rocket test. That 9 Men-In-Black disembarked from a Black Airplane and flew him to Area 51 and that, once there, he entered the secure underground facility through a hangar where they took him to a special room to see an advanced Ferrari model of his fusion engine evidently manufactured by an alien culture! David is an intelligent, entertaining speaker, but these, like other claims that have come before, are extraordinary claims and either David's credibility needs immediate support or we have just another anecdotal story. Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan Search for other documents from or mentioning: bhamilto | geoff |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Complex Nature [Devereux is back] From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:45:16 -0400 Subject: Complex Nature [Devereux is back] Dear List, I've been away in remote parts for a month, and otherwise engaged for additional weeks, so I've been off line as far as the List is concerned. Consequently, I have had the pleasure (I suppose you could call it) of ploughing through a zillion List postings. It's worth doing every so often. Seeing a long period like that in rapid sequence made me marvel anew at (a) some of the impressive knowledge and forensic skills possessed by some List members, and (b) the depressing intellectual desert inhabited by numerous other members. With such a dichotomy, effectively two worlds not meeting, I saw with new force why ufology as it is presently invented just isn't going anywhere (although I know the closely circumscribed gossip and new fads and events that rise and fall create the illusion with some people that it is). Unless the paradigms that imprison it are flung open, ufology it is just a series of closed systems, belief systems in the main, it seems to me. Perhaps human nature is too complex for such a shift to occur. Anyhow, I see that some List colleagues, Jerry Cohen and others, were kind enough to respond to some of my points made a couple of months ago. To be polite, may I assure them I will reply to what they say (albeit selectively because of this long hiatus) in future postings as my schedule permits. But I have to mention here that of all the myriad items and threads on the List, it was the cosmic snowballs that blew me away the most... It made me grateful that I am only championing earth lights! I could just imagine the roasting my recently waterlogged friend, Chris Rutowski, would have given me if I had come on this List proposing snowballs from outer space...! Wild nature is clearly more complex than we think. Truly. In the way that not all thunderstorms produce ball lightning, and not all earthquakes produce earthquake lights, I guess not all flooding produces light phenomena, as Chris noted in the recent Manitoba flooding horrors he had to endure (glad you made it through OK, Chris). I guess if other was the case, we could predict earthquakes and we wouldn't get caught out by floodwater! I know Chris wishes nature were simpler, and more clockwork in its predictability. He vents his frustration about this on the likes of Persinger and me. But it is not: nature, human and wild, is *the most complex system we can know of*. It is that complexity that constantly surprises us, allows endless creativity, consciousness and life itself - and presents a vista of discovery that goes on for ever. I feel we should celebrate that fact, and be more open to its implications. Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:41:05 -0400 Subject: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' June 5, 1997 Thurmond Disputes Book on Purported Alien Spaceship By WILLIAM J. BROAD A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. The book, "The Day After Roswell," published by Pocket Books, says the government found an alien craft that had crashed in the desert near Roswell, N.M., in July 1947 and set up a program to glean its secrets, including things like lasers, computer chips and fiber optics. The government clandestinely fed the alien technology to the military and industry, the book says, while engaging in a wide conspiracy to keep the existence of the aliens from the American public. The book might be dismissed as part of a genre making similar wild claims except for the author's military background, his claimed role in the endeavor and Thurmond's praise of the author in the foreword. The author, Philip J. Corso, who wrote the book with William J. Birnes, retired from the Army in 1963. The book says he retired as a colonel. The Army said its best records showed that he retired as a lieutenant colonel. In that rank, he served on the National Security Council under President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Corso contends that, while at the Pentagon, he personally spearheaded an Army project that secretly planted the alien technologies throughout the economy and military, mainly to build up U.S. strength to fight an inevitable war against alien invaders. In the foreword, Thurmond says Corso worked for him as an aide after leaving the Army and praises him as a person of integrity who served his country well. "He has many interesting stories to share with individuals interested in military history, espionage and the workings of our government," Thurmond wrote. But he made no mention of the book's central thesis of inadvertent aid to the United States by space aliens. In a statement, Thurmond said that he agreed to provide the foreword on the understanding that the book was autobiographical and that he regretted that it appeared to bolster claims of a government conspiracy and cover-up. "I know of no such 'cover-up,' " the senator said, "and do not believe one existed." Liz Hartman, director of publicity for Pocket Books, said in an interview that the confusion appeared to center on Thurmond's office and staff rather than Corso's revelations. "We absolutely stand by the book," she said. "It's a memoir." Copyright 1997 The New York Times
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Crop Circle Connector #23 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:17:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:42:26 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #23 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #23 Members = 1417 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Thursday 5th June 1997. **************************************** The latest Crop Circle at Winterbourne Bassett in Wiltshire with an aerail shot by Steve Alexander and report by Lucy Pringle. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: 1947, Era of Confusion From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:36:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:47:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 1947, Era of Confusion From my E-mail, some apparently have the wrong idea of my post yesterday. The 1947 era is *not* rich in close encounters. A study of the time period reveals there were a lot of people who spent many hours scanning the skies, and when they something new, it became "a flying disc." Many of these sightings sound very much like balloons or at night searchlights which after the war became available through the military surplus sales. I think by going back and researching the beginning of the UFO era we can better understand what is going on now. For the last few years many hoaxers in Australia have been using balloons with various arrays of light to hoax the people. While there were plenty of hoaxers in 1947, they did not make the use of balloons that modern hoaxers do. There were, however, more use of balloons in general meteorological work than today. They did not have weather satellites then. The purpose of my research, Project 1947, is to look at all aspects of the UFO situation in the early UFO era. My interest is not balloons, but after working in meteorolgical operations for 16 years, I am very aware of them. Articles on Project 1947 can be found in UFO Magazine, Vol. 11, #2, MUFON Journal #327, the International UFO Reporter, Summer 1996 see: http://www.cufos.org/aldrich.html in the latest issue of Phenomena, the SOS OVNI publication, and final in the Fortean Times, UFO 1947-1997, Fifty Years of Flying Saucers edited by Hilary Evans and Dennis Stacy. Also, a preliminary report will be forthcoming from the Fund for UFO Research. These publications are not about balloons. They concern UFOs. A British Columbia report proir to Arnold involved animal reaction, three hovering UFOs which were joined by two others, and then, all five left the area. This report deomonstrates activity which could not be attributed to balloons. Balloons do not rendezvous. You can find out more on this and other outstanding reports in 1947 when I speak at the MUFON Conference. Thank you. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 5 Re: On the trail of Kal From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:50:29 -0400 Subject: Re: On the trail of Kal > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:46:18 +0200 (MET DST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: On the trail of Kal Henny wrote: > Speaking of Hesemann, I am reminded of Eduard "Billy" Meier. Here Henny is quoting Korff, I think: > Hesemann is licking his wounds here too, since yes it is TRUE > that Kalliope Meier (Meier's Greek wife) has DIVORCED him now and > has told the Swiss courts UNDER OATH that she NEVER BELIEVED her > husband's claims of "Pleiadian" contact! > (The fact that Kal seems to give much weight to the testimony of a > person entangled in a judicial case with her former spouse says > everything about Kal's objectivity) Again I think Henny quotes Korff here, judging from capitalized text: > She's even ADMITTED to > the courts of helping her husband LIE about them and FAKE > material and photos! Of course, NONE of this has detoured either > Hesemann or Wendelle Stevens, the latter of whom has remained > curiously SILENT about the Meier case ever since my expose book > came out last year. Hello Henny and all, Here one should as usual not let Korff's omissions of relevant material go without comment, if it's truth one is after. Back in 1979 Meier's wife and three children were interviewed by Jun-Ichi Yaoi of Nippon TV as to their main sighting, which was of the "beamship" of Meier's primary ET contactor as it rose ever higher in the daytime sky; it occurred in June of 1976. Kalliope described it, and mentioned a bit of detail, such as having seen its "portholes," and two of her kids also described it. Her elder son, about age 6 at the time, and age 9 at the interview, displayed the drawing he had made of it back in 1976, and it shows up well in the video. Five adults besides Kalliope were in on the sighting (named in Stevens' 1982 book and in the Elders' 1983 book). The translation into English was by Herbert Runkel, who has himself inspected and photographed some of the flattened & swirled meadow grass sometimes left behind after one of Meier's contacts. Meier seems to have been the first to notice that not only did the grass survive though staying flattened within the circles, it continued to grow horizontally for quite some time afterwards. Runkel has kept track of one of these landing sites where the grass still grew somewhat differently from the neighboring grass 4 years later. On the tape, Kalliope even volunteers information about a different event that indicates Meier was indeed a contactee. The interview is there on video tape for any who are interested to acquire it from Genesis III (Lee & Brit Elders). However, the audio track is poor and one needs to listen carefully over the 60-(or 50?)-cycle hum. So they didn't use the segment in any of their production videos. After viewing it, you can generate a more informed opinion whether Kalliope was being honest before and not afterwards, or vice versa. Hesemann and Stevens both are aware of all the positive evidence indicating the Meier case can be no hoax. So they have no need to backtrack on anything. Stevens has not been silent on the Meier case this year; he presented some interesting little-known details on it last January at the Laughlin, NV, UFO conference. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 The 1956 Movie U.F.O. From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:07:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:07:23 -0400 Subject: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. Greetings, Gary Mangiacopra has spent over a year researching into the background of the 1956 Clarence Greene and Russell Rouse 1956 movie documentary U.F.O. Although he has amassed a great amount of material, much of the production history and the material on Greene and Rouse is lost. Robert Barrow wrote two articles about the movie in 1978. Gary would appreciate any information about the movie, Greene and Russell both of whom have passed away. Gary would also like to make contact with Robert Barrow if anyone would have a contact address. Gary has kindly donated copies of all his research and all his UFO files for use at the proposed Government UFO Document Archives. Gary would be happy to received any information on the movie at: Gary Mangiacopra 7 Arlmont Street Milford, CT 06460 Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: "J. Washington" <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:20:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:12:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> > Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Hi all, > I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" > by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book > and the Gulf Breeze sightings in general? Yeah, JJ I do. Some of Ed's photos look suspicious, and his veracity has been debated for some time. The discovery of a scale model of one of the UFOs that he allegedly photographed didn't help. However, the video he took of a daylight disk that hovers over a beach before it goes zipping off like a bat out of hell, is remarkable! I've acquired several video clips of similar (daylight) objects doing likewise photographed in locations other than Gulf Breeze. And like Walter's piece, they've stood up to photographic analysis. Perhaps Walters felt he needed a prop at one time to help document his story. Who knows? But there's little doubt in my mind, as well as the minds of MANY Gulf Breeze residents, that something strange has been visiting their skies for some time now. It's clear that Walters has legitimately managed to document at least some of that activity. Don't be fooled by those skeptics out there who are pathological in their denial and have an obsessive need to pooh-pooh every UFO report. The events at Gulf Breeze encompass far more than any one witness, photograph or video, and wishful thinking hasn't made them go away. Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Alfred's Odd Ode #142 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:12:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:08:06 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #142 Apology to MW #142 (For June 5 1997) A little too real to stay real cordial, I=92ll wheel, and turn down a course I see medial. This game that we play is mostly primordial. You think in a dissonance, cognitive =96 custodial. There is drama played out on the fringe of our lives!=20 It freshens your lifestyle, depletes other=92s archives. They cook it with dung, you eat it with chives. For them life=92s a curse, but for you it=92s contrived. They keep you insulated from the price you really pay. They keep away the bad news of the struggle, or the fray. They keep you in cocoons of gauze, your fear they will allay; They can lull you into stupor with their media array.=20 You don=92t think you get the news from monolithic letters! CBS, or NBC are news hounds, and go-getters? They don=92t keep the real news buried way down in their blotters? Like say, the death and degradation of a host of critter daughters? We make the earth all angry when we treat her like mere paper We=92ve learned to scrape our pores with =96 that raw hemroidal gaper. The truth has cant beyond belief =96 your local rag newspaper! The stories you might like to _know_ are shredded to waste paper! Like, how about free energy that would make all homes like castles? Obliterate your anxiousness with much of life=92s cruel hassles? Increase your worth, and independence, in leaps, or bounds and passels? But that=92s the news that=92s hidden, see? You and me, we=92re vassals!=20 And it chaps my ass this =96 disregard, for educated sensibility. To invent (again!) cop/doc/law shows, to remind us their divinity. They report the real news with their sneers of incredulity; They fill chick ads with UFO=92s to extend our gullibility. I=92m shouting to an empty house, I=92ve idly been thinking. Ignored, perhaps reviled -- in a morass quickly sinking. It matters not indifference that can make my tears unblinking. It=92s the lavish praise you=92d heap on me that would surely get me stinking <g>! And you scream I have no answer, just a hypnotizing rhyme! I throw down all my *bullshit* cards, and I throw them just in time. The answer is too easy =96 and it=92s plain as truth sublime. Just *Cop* is all I=92m saying, and the rest falls into line. Lehmberg@snowhill.com The Alien View =96 It=92ll put a spell on you! Compared to the rest of the world the US sucks up a *share* of world resources that, by far and away, exceeds what it gives back to . . . well, anything, or anybody! We Americans could incur _more_ ranker if that goes on. If you lived over a guy with a headache, would you practice your tap dancing? The alien view observes that many of you will. I would just as soon not. Is _that_ the reason for this thundering silence. . . --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake in his own deafening silence. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 New Roswell Explanation From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 13:21:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:06:27 -0400 Subject: New Roswell Explanation NEW ROSWELL EXPLANATION RUMOR LINE FROM THE EAST COAST ----- (JUST A RUMOR) The Air Force is coming out with a new report revealing that the crash at Roswell in 1947 was the debris from a test of a glider hanging from a Japanese FUGO Balloon. The glider held 2 Japanese engineers whose bodies were found bloated in the sun! If this is true, the MOGUL BALLOON which did not pass the disinformation test will be replaced now with a FUGO Balloon and Glider assembly. Better get your money back from buying Kal Korff's new Roswell book, and boy will Charles B. Moore be miffed. Let's see now. Timeline: 1947 - weather balloon with rawin sonde crashes north of Roswell 1995-6 - TS Mogul balloon crashes with train 1997 - TS test of Fugo balloon with glider crashes; bodies are Japanese; hieroglyphic writing is Japanese Whew! Still don't have to worry about aliens or spaceships... Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan ---------- TO LEAVE THE LIST, send a message to: majordomo@primenet.com with the one line message of: unsubscribe in_search_of <---- End Forwarded Message ----> Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:03:15 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 In a message dated 97-06-04 21:06:22 EDT, in response to Drew Williamson, you write: > Drew, you mean to tell me that what they've been waiting for all > these years to initiate contact is a simple signal to land? <grin> Mr. Daniels: Consider crop circles. Unless you have an encompassing, prosaic, earth bound explanation for the considerable research on these, they remain a legitimate proposed ET related phenomenon. More than a few serious researchers have posited them as a form of communication. If entities who ply the unfathomable distances of space or breach the incomprehensible cusps between dimensions choose to communicate for nonspecific reasons, what manner of pride do humans exercise who deem such communication foolishness. Steve Bassett ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:34:17 -0400 Subject: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out shortly and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it wasn't Mogul. It was a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers designed lifting body into the sky that could be cut lose to guide to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) Supposedly the design was tested in the wind tunnels at Wright Field. And, the Air Force supposedly used Frank Kaufmann's testimony as part of their "proof" of this thing. In fact, it sounds as if they are going to rely on the unreliable testimony of the major Roswell witnesses. I guess now we'll be told that their reports were accurate, we just looked in the wrong place. I can't wait to see how the media will deal with this. Let's see if we have it straight... In 1947, you said it was a weather balloon, but you checked your records and found that you lied. It was really a Project Mogul balloon which was nothing more than a weather balloon. Now you've checked your records again, those very records you had already checked and you have determined that it wasn't a Mogul Balloon Array but this lifting body. Of course, that doesn't explain the bodies... unless there were a number of Orientals in the craft when it crashed outside of Roswell. Has this begun to stink of massive cover up yet? BTW: Frank Kaufmann predicted long ago that if it became to hot, the Air Force would find "new" records with a new answer. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: With or without Greer, do something! From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:14:04 -0400 Subject: Re: With or without Greer, do something! In a message dated 97-06-04 19:47:55 EDT, you write: > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:26:23 GMT > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> > Subject: With or without Greer, do something ! > Over the last weeks, I've been reading the mails posted > here, with the pros and cons about CSETI and its director, > Steven Greer. > Instead of boring you with just another member's opinion, > I'm adding another point to the debate. > My point is : you disagree with Greer ? You think he's > not the right guy ? Very good, respectful position. > I sincerely suggest you get out of your armchairs and do > something yourselves, concretely, to end this cover-up. > (snip) > I'm not an ufologist, just a concerned citizen who runs a > UFO page and who believes it's more than time for a UFO/ET > disclosure. > (snip) > I support CSETI's Project Starlight, Komarek's Operation > Right To Know, the International Roswell Initiative, and any other > initiatives against this infamous and ridiculous cover-up. > (snip) > Best Regards, Well stated Mr. Andrade! Ten thousand more "concerned citizens" such as yourself and the breach of the social contract embedded in the core issues of ufology will at last be closed. However, you may need to be patient with the "ufologists". They are tired and frustrated. Having lost so many battles with "city hall", they have turned on each other to vent their anger. Many are so entrenched with internal squabbles they have failed to notice that other members of the activist wing are actually engaging the powers that be - not in battle, but in dialogue. Here's hoping they turn outward soon. All of them have earned the right to be "on the Missouri" when the signing of documents signifying the transition to formal public involvement in the unfolding paradigm takes place. Steve Bassett ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 22:03:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> > Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >> I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book and the Gulf Breez e sightings in general? The video matches the pictures in the book - it's pretty good - think you should get it. I was in Gulf Breeze in March - several people had a sighting the night before the conference and on Friday night right on the beach outside of the hotel - about 35 people. I outsmarted myself by being in my room changing into skywatching clothes while everyone else got a visual treat. So yeah, I think they're real - talked to many local folk, some you've never heard of, and many of them had sightings of various kinds over the years - one or two had many, many (1 guy about 100). The visitors just seem to frequent that place, whether it's because of the magnetic fields, an underwater base nearby (speculation I have heard) or because it's on the center line of the North + South American continent - who knows? Melanie [Mecca]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:05:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:42:56 -0400 Subject: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Regarding... >Date: 04 Jun 97 08:30:50 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Bob wrote: >I got into this yesterday with the publisher and literary agent of >the book. Some changes were made (such as correcting a wrong state >of origin for Barry Goldwater) but only a few corrections from my >LONG list were made. >I had pointed out that the U-2 was an unarmed spy plane, but it is >still in the book as a bomber, I had corrected McAndrews to McAndrew, >but the book still has McAndrews, and the list goes on and on. Bob, It's not terribly important that the photograph of a Stealth Fighter is claimed to show a nonexistent "F-116 A", or that McAndrew is spelled McAndrews a hundred times or more. Even "poor" Ray has the ignominy of being addressed as Mr Santilly. We might have thought, however, some basic research would have noted that Trey Stokes had his own SFX company in the US and was not an employee of "Creature FX", in London. Than again, some elementary research would have shown that many of the claims are equally inaccurate, as was done following Hesemann's Nexus article. >This all falls on the head of one Dan, Production Manager for the >book, who chose which corrections to make and which to ignore. He >claimed yesterday "...all substantive changes _were_ made." I guess >he doesn't consider wrong photos with captions and names spelled >wrong as "substantive". But it's about more than proof reading, isn't it. There's a photograph of one Bob Shell which proclaims. "Bob Shell, editor of Shutterbug magazine, confirmed the age of the Santilli footage". Is that a fact... There's plenty of space for the August 1995 statement in which you claimed there was a "95% probability that the film is what the cameraman claims it to be". Unfortunately, and as common sense suggested had to be the case, your research was fundamentally flawed and this was pointed out by Clive Tobin, who did have the expertise. But this was known in January of '96 and you asked that your initial statement be disregarded. In "Beyond Roswell", there's no mention of any problems whatsoever with your favourable initial claims, almost a year and a half after you distanced yourself from them. There was however time to include your comments in a letter to Philip Mantle, dated August 1996, these comments being used to imply that the analysis by Carrado Malanga "proves the footage was shot on material sold by Kodak before 1956". The frame analysed didn't of course come from the "autopsy" footage, as you appreciate, but this isn't mentioned either. There was also time to provide details of the video broadcast on Fuji TV a few months ago, but no time it seems for Bob Shell's retractions. Some 6 months ago, I suggested that the nonsense which was exposed in Hesemann's Nexus article would still form the basis of "Beyond Roswell" and asked if you would be happy to find yourself in the exact position you now are. It didn't take a clairvoyant to see that coming. Before you unjustifiably criticise a man of integrity like Kent Jeffrey, perhaps you should consider the tales you claim to have been told by Ray Santilli, that the film was processed by Rank in London - which it wasn't, that he had the original film boxes - which you believe he didn't, and that a meaningful film sample would be made available for testing - even though Santilli was telling everyone else exactly the opposite. Maybe you should at some point ask Santilli for explanations. It would perhaps be more productive than attacking genuine people based on rumours, which you may find are also inaccurate. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 UFOs & Religion? From: "Kevin O'Keefe" <kokeefe@web.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:39:38 -0400 Subject: UFOs & Religion? My name is Kevin O'Keefe and I'm a journalist at Vision TV [Canada] researching stories on UFO's and religion. I'm looking for people who come from a religious/spiritual background who have had an encounter with a UFO. I'm interested in how you've encorporated this new knowledge into your faith. I'd like positive stories from people who have grown as a result of their experience(s). If this is you or you know someone, please contact me at: kokeefe@web.net Thanks Kevin O'Keefe p.s. Canadian residents only please.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:43:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:42:25 -0400 Subject: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Regarding... >Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:43:17 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book Philip wrote: >With respect I can not continue discussions on this matter any >further as I am far too busy both at work and with other UFO related >projects. I would therefore respectifully like to suggest that you >put any further 'complaints' of this nature direct to our publisher. Philip, No complaints. It was simply a question of whether revisions would be evident in the final print. I had said to Lizzy that I didn't think it fair to comment on the book until this was clarified. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: pulsar | el51 [ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ] This Month's Index | UFO UpDates Main Index UFO UpDates - Toronto - ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp A Hand-Operated E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena. To subscribe please send your first and last names to ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net Message submissions should be sent to the same address. __________________________________________________________________ Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at AliensOnEarth.com light) objects doing likewise photographed in locations other than Gulf Breeze. And like Walter's piece, they've stood up to photographic analysis. Perhaps Walters felt he needed a prop at one time to help document his story. Who knows? But there's little doubt in my mind, as well as the minds of MANY Gulf Breeze residents, that something strange has been visiting their skies for some time now. It's clear that Walters has legitimately managed to document at least some of that activity. Don't be fooled by those skeptics out there who are pathological in their denial and have an obsessive need to pooh-pooh every UFO report. The events at Gulf Breeze encompass far more than any one witness, photograph or video, and wishful thinking hasn't made them go away. Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 >From: SGBList2@aol.com >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 03:02:47 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 22 In a message to Drew Williamson dated 97-05-06, you write: >1) I will yager you a dinner you would not find the totality of the >rapid response techniques "laughable" if you elected to take the >program and participate in an engagement. Dear Stephen, I guess you are referring to the CSETI star watch/ufo calling program? I am not trying to "pick" or "debunk" anyone right now, but I do have some questions that have come to mind. What is the anticipated "purpose" of calling in UFO's? Perhaps I'm being naive, but I have yet to understand what is being accomplished? We don't even know if UFO/Aliens are friends or foes. I have yet to meet any abductee who makes the claim that their ufo experience is a wonderful party. In most cases, the contactees are upset, disoriented and scared. Would I want to be responsible for introducing my friends to aliens? Heck no!!!! Any investigator knows in most cases we are dealing with traumatized victims. We just hashed out email about the B&B incident. Here was a group of abductees (not uncommon) who obviously were so paranoid by interacting with alien experience that they are meeting in secret. I can't help but think of the scene in Independence Day when a group of "take me please" are on the top of building. OK so this is fiction. But in truth could leading people to alien encounters mean 1) perhaps something good, whatever that might be or 2)leading a bunch of lambs to the slaughter? Who is to know for sure. This reminds me of going on a safari (which I have done in South Africa). You get in the car, you drive to some remote area of Kruger Game Reserve, you take out your binoculars, you hope you see "something". You are soooo elated when you encounter a 600LB lion, you yell over, he looks your way so that you might snap a photo and we mere humans make eye contact with this beast. There is joy in that he sees you, you see him! Who by the way, looks cute but could rip your limbs apart piece by piece and have you for lunch in one second flat! Perhaps I'm exaggerating and making a little fun right now of a group of intelligent people sitting on some mountain top waving flash lights. What qualifies a person to be the initial "instigator" in introducing a person to alien species? Should people charge for this talent? What is all of this leading to -- "only the qualified" can do it or mandatory college degrees and licensing on "All you ever wanted to know about meeting aliens"? Do you need to have a PHD, MD or DDS behind your name to apply? I feel in the end, we all have an equal capacity to make contact with aliens, but the big question is are we ready and do we want to? Curious as a cat........... Kathleen Andersen Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 New and Revised CNI News Article on Greer in From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:04:46 -0400 Subject: New and Revised CNI News Article on Greer in New and Revised CNI Article DETAILS OF STEVEN GREER'S WASHINGTON DC BRIEFINGS Press Hears Impressive Witnesses; Documents in Dispute By Michael Lindemann [This story was updated on June 4 from the version published on June 1. Changes were made based on information provided by Steven Greer, Fund for UFO Research and others regarding disputed rights to the use of a document referred to as "Best Available Evidence."] Many details of the April 9-10 Washington DC "closed briefing on UFOs and Extraterrestrial Intelligence" hosted by Dr. Steven Greer's Project Starlight Coalition for members of Congress and invited press have recently been disclosed to CNI News. A participant at the briefings, who has requested anonymity, sent CNI News a complete set of briefing documents as well as a videotape of the closed press briefing and the videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." >From these materials it would be possible to disclose to our readers the names of many key UFO witnesses as well as the names of many Congressional personnel who attended the events. It is precisely this information which Greer and his organization have sought to keep confidential, on the theory that only such confidentiality at this stage will preserve the fragile but growing trust needed to bring witnesses and government leaders together on this highly sensitive subject. CNI News believes there is merit in maintaining this confidentiality. After viewing the closed press conference videotape of April 10, it is our judgment that potentially important information was presented in a dignified and persuasive way to a small but significant group of people. We see evidence that Greer's organization is making good, at least to some degree, on its stated strategy. It is not our desire to derail their efforts through overzealous, untimely reporting. However, many details of what took place can be reported, including a controversy over Greer's right to use one of the documents distributed at the briefings. Although the two most-publicized events in this multi-day program were a closed presentation for invited members of Congress and other government officials on April 9, and a closed briefing for members of the press held on April 10, CNI News has learned that Greer conducted a large number of smaller private meetings with various government and press personnel who either could not or did not wish to participate in the higher-profile briefings. Thus, those who attended only the two main briefings were not in a position to know how many people Greer and his team actually met with. CNI News has received a complete list of Congressional offices that indicated plans to attend, in most cases sending staff aides; but we have also learned that only a minority of those named were actually in the official briefing on April 9. Assuming Greer found other ways to meet with the no-shows, the list indicates contact with no fewer than 11 Senate offices, 25 members of the House, two state governors and one Clinton staffer. However, our sources at the briefing say that they can be certain of only three Congressional office staffers and one Clinton staffer being present, as well as one Congressman and eight other Congressional staffers "probably" in attendance. Two state houses were also "probably" represented by staff. At least the following press organizations were represented at the April 10 closed press briefing: U.S. News and World Report, the Boston Globe, United Press International, News Channel 8 TV from New Haven, CT (an ABC affiliate), New View Films for UPN's "Strange Universe," Sources Journal and Paradigm Research Group. The Times of London was either at the briefing or met with Greer at a different time. Other press may have been present as well. Videotape sent to CNI News shows the April 10 press briefing to have been a well-organized, no-nonsense affair. Steven Greer made brief opening remarks, then introduced a succession of witnesses, each of whom made a personal statement of several minutes' duration. The first of these speakers was astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who has never claimed to be a UFO witness but is now on record as a strong supporter of the Greer organization's efforts. Dr. Mitchell stated that he has become convinced that a core of UFO incidents are real and highly important, and that it is time for official secrecy to end. He also stressed that a great deal of the UFO information in the public arena is nonsensical, at least some of that no doubt intentionally planted to promote the cover-up, and that this briefing was meant to help sort out the essential facts from the nonsense. In sum, Mitchell's opening statement was a strong start to a briefing that continued strongly thereafter. In a printed "Summary of selected witnesses" participating in the DC events, Greer listed 15 people, but named no one in writing except Edgar Mitchell. At the press briefing, seven witnesses spoke following Mitchell. Each of these people was introduced by name. Since they were named in a press briefing, it would seem fair to assume that naming them here is permissible. However, CNI News chooses to err on the side of caution in this regard, for the moment. Two of these witnesses, however, have been public enough in the past that naming them here cannot be faulted. The first of these is Air Force Major (ret.) George Filer, who, among other things, is the Eastern Region Director for MUFON. Filer, the first to speak after Edgar Mitchell, briefly described three UFO incidents he had witnessed but emphasized an event that occurred in 1978 at McGuire Air Force Base and the adjoining Fort Dix in New Jersey. At that time, Filer said, he was Deputy Director of Intelligence for the 21st Air Force at McGuire. Early one morning he reported for duty only to find the base headquarters in an uproar over UFO sightings that had been happening around the base during the night. More important, he learned that shots were fired at Fort Dix at an intruder who was then seen running toward a runway at McGuire. A small body was soon found lying on the runway, Filer said. That body, evidently dead and not human, was soon picked up by a C-141 aircraft dispatched from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Filer did not know what became of it after that. Another witness whose statements have been previously published was Commander (ret.) Graham Bethune, a Navy pilot and test pilot who witnessed an extraordinary UFO off the coast of Iceland in February, 1951. An account of this incident was published in "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good. Bethune says he had been told by military personnel in Iceland that there had been many sightings of unusual aircraft, which were assumed to be some new Soviet weapon. However, Bethune and a crew of men were flying a Navy transport on the night of February 10 when they witnessed, first, a bright glow on the water at a distance of some 25 miles, then saw a large disk-like object move toward them at a tremendous speed, stopping only a few hundred yards in front of and below their own aircraft. The object, Bethune said, was at least 300 feet in diameter and had approached them at a speed well in excess of 1,000 miles per hour, then stopped and hovered for several moments before withdrawing to a distance of about five miles and pacing their plane for several more minutes before disappearing over the horizon at super speed. Bethune noted that his onboard magnetic compasses were spinning wildly while the mystery craft was nearby. He surmises it was lucky that his plane's control functions were mainly hydraulic rather than electrical. He said it was not until much later that he realized his sighting corresponded to the other unusual reports in Iceland, but he knew immediately that the object he saw could not have been a human aircraft. Another male witness, now a successful attorney, told of attending a briefing while in the Army Signal Corps in which he was shown unusual metal fragments with strange embossed hieroglyphics, and another piece that could be bent but would always spring back to its original shape. He said he was also told that President Eisenhower was keenly interested in UFOs, and that the presidential bunker at Mt. Weather, Virginia was equipped to track UFO activity. Another male witness told of tracking UFOs on radar as they performed extraordinary feats of speed and maneuvering. Yet another male witness, an Air Force Lt. Colonel (ret.), told of observing a number of luminous UFOs at Loring Air Force Base on the night of April 19, 1969. The sole woman witness at this briefing told of her work at a NASA facility, where she was a technical illustrator for many years. On one occasion she observed a large black and white NASA photo which contained an obvious UFO. She pointed it out to a photo technician, who explained to her that "we always airbrush those out" before releasing them to the public. From this she surmised that this happened fairly often. The last person to speak was a long-time professional astronomer who explained that the SETI project (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, using radio telescopes) had received a large number of signals of "unusual quality" -- meaning non-random, repeating, not generated by known human equipment or celestial objects. In this astronomer's view, "It is quite clear that there have been signals received. From where, from who, I do not know." The combined impact made by this lineup of witnesses was extremely impressive. Each one came across as a highly credible, rational, articulate and concerned human being. Each one obviously understood that they were not providing proof of anything, but their stories could not fail to arouse interest in any open-minded listener. With this in mind, CNI News finds it unfortunate and even somewhat odd that there was not more press reporting of this briefing. Nonetheless, we feel that the reporters who attended must have gone home with plenty of food for thought, and perhaps this will make them more ready to do responsible reporting on the UFO subject at a later time. Along with the presentation of witnesses, Greer's team assembled and distributed a large package of printed materials and a videotape titled "CSETI Video and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." The printed package has recently been offered for sale to the public, but the video will likely not be widely distributed because of possible copyright infringement. For anyone familiar with the dozens of UFO videos on today's market, the video assembled by Steven Greer would hold no surprises. In fact, it appears that his tape contains no original footage but is composed entirely of clips from otherwise available tapes. Many of these clips, more than 80 all together, are classic stills, some of them enlarged or enhanced. Many others are video clips from Mexico and assorted other places. A few are highly dubious (for example, a long version of the infamous "Guardian" UFO video from Carp, Ontario is labeled "ARV," meaning human-built "alien reproduction vehicle," a quite improbable claim), while some others are simply indistinct (a video clip from the Canary Islands contains nothing resembling a UFO, as far as we could see). As an exhibit of evidence, CNI News believes this video might have been more effective at one-fourth the length, showing only the most classic and impressive footage. The printed briefing package, titled "Comprehensive Briefing Document: CSETI Project Starlight," is massive at over 400 photocopied pages, and is divided into three parts. Part One consists of 17 CSETI documents and position papers mostly authored by Steven Greer. This part runs a total of 49 pages. Part Two, running 28 pages and titled "Best Available Evidence [BAE], Executive Summary," is a scaled-down version of a document previously published by the UFO Research Coalition of MUFON, Center for UFO Studies and Fund for UFO Research. Reportedly, Greer had permission to use this BAE Executive Summary from the UFO Research Coalition. Part Three, titled "United States Government Documents Related to UFOs," contains 117 separate documents running a total of more than 300 pages. Most of these documents are in the public domain and will be familiar to any well-read UFO enthusiast. Nonetheless, it is a quite thorough presentation. However, a controversy has erupted over Greer's replication and distribution of another document, a 118-page draft version of the UFO Research Coalition publication "Unidentified Flying Objects Briefing Document: The Best Available Evidence." This document, originally published in 1995 with the financial backing of philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller, was mainly written by Don Berliner of the Fund for UFO Research, with Antonio Huneeus and Marie Galbraith listed as co-authors. Greer put his own cover on the draft text and distributed it as a CSETI publication. Greer's version of the document credits Berliner as author but deletes all reference to the other UFO organizations, the co-authors and Rockefeller, and instead states on the replacement cover: "Concept, Title and Strategy: Steven M. Greer, M.D.; Case Selection: CSETI Project Starlight Team." The content of Greer's version is more than 90% identical to the version published by the UFO Research Coalition. Greer claims he has the right to distribute his version because he participated in the early stages of its creation along with Marie Galbraith, Don Berliner and others but was later cut out of the project and given no credit for his contribution. He claims he is distributing a draft of the document acquired by him before the final published version was copyrighted, and that his draft is not covered by the copyright. CNI News has now explored the history of the "Best Available Evidence" document with many of those who contributed to its creation. Steven Greer and several members of CSETI/Starlight Coalition did participate in the original discussions about the document. However, Greer's proposal for the document was far different than the document that was eventually published by the UFO Research Coalition, and his removal from participation in the document was a consequence of a general falling out with Marie Galbraith and Laurance Rockefeller. Greer apparently received bad legal advice leading him to the erroneous belief that he can duplicate and distribute a draft version of the "Best Available Evidence" document without violating copyright. But, according to the UFO Research Coalition, Greer's action makes him guilty of piracy and copyright infringement. And for putting his own cover on the document, which implies that the document is a CSETI publication and that author Don Berliner wrote it under CSETI auspices, Greer's accusers say he is also guilty of unfair competition, false advertising and false designation of origin. [In the June 1 version of this article, CNI News accused Greer of plagiarism. That charge was incorrect and is hereby retracted by CNI News. However, the other charges just noted are correct.] CNI News has learned that the UFO Research Coalition has initiated legal action against Greer. CNI News considers it highly unfortunate that the Project Starlight Washington DC briefing process has been marred by this infraction on Greer's part. We believe the effort undertaken during April in Washington shows promise of bearing good fruit in the future. We call upon Steven Greer and all CSETI personnel and supporters to hold to the highest standards of integrity in the future, so as not to further compromise their own best intentions and good potential. CNI News will continue to report on this story as further information becomes available.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:50:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' In a message dated 97-06-05 21:13:23 EDT, you write: > Thurmond said to be enraged over link to UFO book > COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) - Sen. Strom Thurmond is reportedly stewing > over his connection to a new book that says aliens from a crashed > spaceship provided the technology that allowed the United States to > win the Cold War. > "The Day After Roswell," by former Thurmond aide and retired > Army intelligence officer Philip J. Corso, goes on sale next week. > The book focuses on the alleged crash of an unidentified flying > object in the New Mexico desert near Roswell in 1947. Thurmond, > chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee, wrote the book's > foreword. > > In it, Corso writes that the government confiscated the craft > and from it gleaned secrets that led to advances such as "laser > technology, fiber optics, night-vision capabilities and the > microchip." > Thurmond, the nation's longest-serving senator, was enraged by > the book, newspapers reported today. > The Republican signed on to write the foreword in January > because he was told it was to be an autobiographical book, his > office said. > The book was to have been a memoir entitled "I Walked with > Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence," Thurmond staffers > said. > Liz Hartman, a spokeswoman for Pocket Books, said Thurmond's > office received information about the book before it was finished. > <rest snipped> Reminds me of when Clint Eastwood made Heartbreak Ridge some years ago. The military cooperated 100% complete with script approval, use of military equipment, personell etc etc, right up until a month or so before national release of the film, then they distanced themselves from it. That way, they could "officially say" "We did not support that movie." My Dad wrote a number of book forwards. In all cases he had Galley proofs to read before he wrote the forwards. This is a standard practise in the publishing industry. So one wonders if Storm is doing this to "distance" himself from the book and any potential political fallout, i.e. plausable deniability. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:19:10 -0400 Subject: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso I exposed debunker Karl Pflock around 2 years ago when he was working with the Fund For UFO Research in a attempt to gain credibility. This to pass himself off as a legitimite UFO Researcher. Of course FUFOR even went so far as to give Pflock support and publish his Mogul material. I got all kinds of grief from the UFO establishment for fingering Karl as a debunker and bringing up his CIA and DOD background. I also brought out on the internet the allegations in a book back in the seventies that he was passing off disinformation on cattle mutulations at that time. In usual debunker tradition Karl even threated to sue me in a even more direct way than debunker Kal Korff to make me back off. It won't be long before the debunkers and other intelligence operatives within and without of the UFO community really begin following Pflock's lead to distroy Corso's credibility and character. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) Here we go again! From the May 20 Issue of Saucer Smear ---------------------- KARL PFLOCK, co-author of the forthcoming book "Shockingly Close to the Truth!", writes as follows: "John Alexander's letter (in the April 20th `Smear') re Lt. Colonel Phillip Corso is interesting both for what it does and does not say: Taking the latter first, in a March 24th telephone conversation, John told me he not only had checked out Corso's military career but had extensively researched the histories of earthly technologies (e.g., transistors, computer chips, lasers) which Corso claims are the spawn of alien artifacts recovered from (which?) one of the many alleged Roswell 'crash' sites and provided to American industry by himself and his conveniently late boss General Arthur Trudeau, beginning circa 1961. "John told me his investigations confirmed what he (and I) thought to be true: (1) The historical record of these technologies is clear, complete, and unambiguous, establishing without a doubt that they are products of good ol' homo sap skull sweat, with no help of any sort from alien know-how; and (2) Some were developed before Corso claimed he and Trudeau gave American industry a jump start with alien goodies. Why John didn't include this information in his letter, along with his 'character reference' for Corso, only he can tell us. "As for Corso`s alleged heroic exposure of sordid and secret Cold War activities concerning POWs and decades of U.S. incursions into Soviet airspace with significant losses of aircraft and aircrews - baloney! Most of what Corso had to say to Congress was old news, and much of the rest was highly questionable. And Project Horizon, the Army's moon-base plan? Anyone who has paid any serious attention to U.S. space programs since the 50s has known about it for decades. I think I first heard of it from the late science-fiction great Robert Heinlein in the mid-60s, and somewhere in a box in my garage, I have a fairly lengthy, unclassified summary of the Army plan. "And as for Corso being a `fine gentleman' and `no bulishit artist', well, I guess we all have our own standards. In January 1993, my wife and I had the `pleasure' of spending several hours with the good colonel in and around Roswell, and, as I noted in an earlier missive in `Smear', at best he's Frank Kaufmann with credentials! "A final thought: If Corso was such a big deal, why is it he retired from the Army as a dime-a-dozen lieutenant Colonel after only 20 years of service?" ------ To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter. --------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 This Weeks 'Show' on MSN's Project: Watchfire ! From: gregmcd@cstone.net (Greg Mcdavitt) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:20:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:20:50 -0400 Subject: This Weeks 'Show' on MSN's Project: Watchfire ! PROJECT: Watchfire http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire/ TUES. 6/10 6pm PDT-9pm EST Live Interview with Tom Bullard Alien Abductions: An Anatomy of a Phenomena http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire/ Folklorist Thomas E. Bullard has conducted the most comprehensive, comparative study ever on alien abduction reports. This phenomenon is, he says, as unique as it is real. Does that mean aliens are really here? Bullard has been researching this phenomenon for two decades. After completing his doctoral thesis UFOs as a Modern Form of Folklore at Indiana University in 1982, he launched a comprehensive comparative study of alien abduction reports worldwide, UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery (Fund for UFO Research, 1987). He has continued his analysis, by cataloguing more than 1000 accounts, and updating his findings in various journals. Join us for a live interview then discussion in the chat room after the show. http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire/ Greg McDavitt Sysop Project: Watchfire http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire news://msnnews.msn.com/msn.onstage.watchfire.bbs ~~Keep Watchin' the Skies~~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Iowa Sightings? From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 06:20:15 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:19:05 -0400 Subject: Iowa Sightings? Greetings All, I am looking for any information that you might have on sightings in Iowa. For instance, I seem to recall seeing in a book may years ago a picture taken of a UFO right by the water tower in Hiawatha, Iowa, although I can't for the life of me remember what book I saw it in. Also, I am looking for any material that you might want posted on the web (with proper credit to the contributors, of course), for the web page that I am currently working on. http://www.geocites.com/area51/5170 Thanks in advance for your help! Phil Harmon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Canadian 'X-Files' *** RG24V17984/940-5(1) (125 TO From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:11:49 -0400 Subject: Canadian 'X-Files' *** RG24V17984/940-5(1) (125 TO Here is the next installment of the index for RG24v17984, 940-5-1. A special thanks to DON LEDGER for helping sort out a few of those mysterious military acronyms. (I've included an updated glossary following the index.) If you are missing parts of the index #001 to 150, e-mail me and I'll send you the complete index, thus far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any ERRORS, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) DOCUMENTS 000125 TO 000150 AS AT JUNE 6, 1997 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 125 07/04/58 Royal Canadian Air Force, Minute Sheet, DADO Re: Response to UFO report 126 06/26/58 Squadron Leader Wood Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO report 05/16/58 UFO, SMITHS BAY, PARRY SOUND, ONTARIO, 05/16/58: 127 06/04/58 Royal Canadian Air Force, Squadron Leader, Hudson, Toronto To: Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command, RCAF St. Hubert, PQ Re: UFO Crash intl lake, 05/16/58 Smiths Bay, Parry Sound, Ontario 128 06/26/58 Group Captain, Ingalls, Chief Air Staff To: Commanding Officer, RCAF STN, Les St. Denis, Morin Heights, PQ Re: Letter regarding UFO fragment examined, 06/05/58 129 06/23/58 Reclassification Sheet, Letter from Air Defence Command Operational Brevity Code ACP165 Removed and placed on S965-104 UFO, MALTON, ONTARIO REPORTED BY AVRO: 130 06/18/58 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Commanding Officer, RCAF, 'TSD's AVRO Aircraft, Malton, Ont Re: Air Force interest in UFO sightings reported by employees CIRVIS/MERINT, NORAD, JCEC: 131 02/05/58 Chief Air Staff, MacBrien To: Deputy Commander-in-Chief, NORAD, Colorado Springs, Colorado Re: Standardised Canada-US CIRIS/MERINT 132 12/13/57 Air Marshal, Slemon, RCAF, Deputy Commander-in-Chief To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: CIRVIS/MERINT Joint Communication Electronics Committee 133 (NoDate) General Chairman, Foulkes, Chief of Staff Committee To: Under-Secretary of State External Affairs, East Block, Ottawa Re: CIRVIS/MERINT NORAD WORLD WIDE MAGAZINE INFORMATION REQUEST: 134 03/17/57 Transmittal Slip from ADM to Chief Air Staff 135 11/27/57 Under-Secretary of State of External Affairs, Bellemare To: Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence Re: Flying Saucer information request "World Wide Magazine" 136 11/27/57 (Carbon Copy of the Above) 137 11/01/57 High Commissioner for Canada, London, England To: Department of National Affairs Re: Flying Saucer information request "World Wide Magazine" 138 11/01/57 Page two of the above: six questions re: Flying Saucers 139 11/24/57 Purchasing Agent, Scientific Research Canada To: Department of National Defence Re: Request of Flying Saucer Information UFO, HALIBURTON, ONTARIO, 11/10/57 & 11/11/57: 140 11/21/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario Re: UFO reports 11/10/57, 11/11/57 forwarded to Wilbert B. Smith 141 11/21/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Telecom Branch, Ottawa Re: UFO reports 11/10/57, 11/11/57 forwarded 142 11/11/57 Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario To: Officer-in-Charge Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO report 11/11/57 Cardiff, Township, Haliburton, Ontario 143 11/10/57 Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario To: Officer-in-Charge Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO report 11/10/57 Cardiff, Township, Haliburton, Ontario 144 (NoDate) WITHDRAWL SLIP: Sargent Weber, NCO i/c DAI /or Re: UFO Sighting Report Classified "Confidential" Placed in Department of Air Intelligence Files UFO, VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 06/28/57: 145 07/12/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Mr & Mrs Lightheart, Vancouver, British Columbia Re: UFO report of 06/28/57 UFO, CHARLOTTETOWN, PEI, 07/07/57: 146 07/12/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Mr. Brasil, Tween River, Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island Re: UFO report of 07/07/57 147 07/10/57 Mr. Brasil, Charlottetwon, Prince Edward Island To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Flying Saucer report of 07/07/57 148 07/10/57 (Page Two of the Above) 149 12/02/56 TELEX: STN TURBAY Re: UFO/Meteor intercept "Engine Feathered" 150 03/12/56 RECLASSIFICATION SHEET Re: "Balloon Incident" placed on 004-4 DASS/S4 -------------------- Index to be Continued ------------------------------- Glossary of Terms Used in Canadian Military Documents 1947 - 1964 Compiled by Joseph Daniels (aka UFO Joe) Last Update: Wednesday June 6, 1997 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ADC - Air Defence Command ADM - (?) AFHQ - Air Force Headquarters ALTA - Alberta AOC - Air Officer Command BC - British Columbia CAS - Chief Air Staff CIRVIS - Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings DADO - (?) DAI - Department of Air Intelligence DM - Deputy Minister DND - Department of National Defence DOT - Department of Transport F/L - Flight Lieutanant F/S - Flying Saucer G/A - General Aviation G/C - Group Captain HQ - Headquarters JANAP - Joint Air, Naval, Army Publication JCEC - Joint Communication Electronics Committee MAN - Manatoba MERINT - French version of CIRVIS (?) NATO - North Atlantic Treaty Organization NB - New Brunswick NCO _ (?) Commanding Officer NICAP - National Investigative Committee on Aerial Phenomenon NORAD - North American Aerospace Defense Command NS - Nova Scotia NWT - North West Territories ONT - Ontario PEI - Prince Edward Island PQ - Quebec RCAF - Royal Canadian Air Force SASK - Saskatchewan SGT - Sargent S/L - Squadron Leader STN - Station UFO - Unidentified Flying Object UFOB - Unidentified Flying Object WBS - Wilbert B. Smith W/C - Wing Commander ------------------------------------------------------------------ .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: "...CNI News article is filled with From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:35:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:09:20 -0400 Subject: Re: "...CNI News article is filled with >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:05:23 -0400 >From: "Steven M. Greer M.D." <Dr_ET@compuserve.com> >Subject: Reply to Lindemann >To: "Donna T." <wabbitz@hti.net> >Cc: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > [and many others - ebk] >REPLY TO MICHAEL LINDEMANN/CNI ARTICLE > 3 June 1997 >We are in receipt of the Michael Lindemann/CNI News article >regarding the April 9, 1997 briefings in Washington DC. >It is unfortunate that Mr. Lindemann decided to write and distribute >such an article without first consulting with CSETI regarding the >numerous false accusations mentioned therein. (snip) Hello All, What is "unfortunate" is the fact that our 'self-appointed' fearless leader's own organization CSETI did not consult with ANYONE (other than 'Bootsie & Larry') about the major move it was about to make. Nor did it give *anyone* a say so in terms of who was (most qualified) to head up this (admittedly) historic presentation to our government representatives! Greer's supporters have repeatedly ignored the fact that the man appointed himself "the peoples representative". The man is secretive, covetous of information and attention, and after having spoken to him personally on another unrelated issue, he demonstrated to me an over-inflated sense of his own self-importance. I instinctively distrust folks like that. As in his e-mail response to Mike Lindemann, Dr.Greer shows a penchant for name dropping and loves to talk about all the 'important people' he deals with and all the 'important situations' he has manipulated himself into. I've got news for you, I'd have a lot more confidence in all of this if a man like Vallee, or even a Jerome Clarke was at the head. I don't like that a 'private' money machine like CSETI is in control! I don't like the fact that a private anything is in control. Dictatorially doling out information as _it_ sees fit, sans the voice or the opinions of the very people that it claims to represent. No I'm afraid that good old fashioned ego-dysfunction and dreams of avarice lie at the bottom of Greer's egalitarian efforts. He's already warned us that we'll have to wait for his "book" to get the answers to several issues and questions that have been raised. His theories are 'off the wall' to say the very least (ie: 98% of all abductions are carried out by clandestine intelligence groups!) These rants go unchallenged and unsubstantiated to date. Yet this guy (who claims to be sacrificing his doctors income on the one hand,... while he actively solicits and accepts funds, European jaunts in Lear Jets, and limo rides from 'Bootsie & Larry' with the other hand) wants us all to accept him, and his 'Grand and Original plan' (and) line of BS without question. Why, the good doctor can't even understand why EVERYONE isn't behind him! They must be envious, jealous, liars or worse - he thinks. This is a democracy doc. YOU CANNOT PRESUME TO REPRESENT "PEOPLE" BEFORE (OUR) DULY ELECTED OFFICIALS WITHOUT FIRST CONSULTING US! UNNERSTAND? Too many good guys have paid the ultimate price, given their precious lives for our rights, and here you come along and negate the whole process and then get mad when all the 'sheeple' don't just pop into line for you. You _are_ one amazing dude. At the very least, Greer and CSETI could have contacted several of the larger groups or organisations and formed the first 'United' UFO umbrella organisation. That, in itself would have won you my support! Then, you could have taken the time to find out who (the majority) wanted as it's representative in Washington! That's the way things get done downtown doc. Anything less is simply unacceptable. (In the USA) I don't give a rats hind-quarters how noble or important the objective is. You and CSETI are catching all of this flack because you went about this whole business bass-ackwards and solitarily. I'm mad as hell that the officials in DC think that _you_ represent me. As an American who believes strongly in the Constitution and our democratic ways of choosing representatives, I find you, CSETI and your methods repulsive, completely un-American, and unacceptable. In your response to Mike Lindemann, you just come off sounding like a name dropping, litigious blowhard. Didn't score many sorely needed 'brownie points' with that one doc. A lot of folks like and respect Mike Lindemann. I'd never even heard of _you_ until recently. Until proven otherwise, Michael Lindemann's (word) carries a lot more weight with me and many others than (anything) that comes from you or CSETI. Mr Lindeman has EARNED that respect, you,...have not. See how this works doc? Maybe you are "the best man" for the job. Problem is, you never _gave_us_a _chance_ to _make_up_our_own_minds_. Instead we are confronted with Mort Sahl's famous comedy situation, "It's like finding out that you're pregnant, and then trying to fall in love!" That's a definite 'no-go' doc! Litigation,.. the favorite last resort of yuppie wimps everywhere! It really doesn't surprise me that you know some 'good lawyers'. <G> Jeez, whatever happened to open public debate and the seeking of consensus? It's a sad day when everything gets done in back rooms by private groups with private money, and,... behind the scenes. CSETI and Dr Greer are behaving the same way our military did during the Gulf war. Control the media, and the flow of information, and as a result, you'll control the people by controlling the raw material they use to form opinions. In another time it was called Fascism. Just 'my opinion' and speaking strictly for myself, John Velez, Bad-ass, die-hard, Proud American! * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 BWW Media Alert 970606 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 05:40:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:17:28 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970606 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) June 6, 1997 I had a good time in Seattle, but was a bit disappointed to see no merchandise specifically tailored to the area's rich "weird" history. King County officially recognizes bigfoot as a species seen in its wetlands. The "first" flying saucer sighting took place near Mt. Rainier (on June 24, 1997). Seems to me they are missing a marketing opportunity here. Speaking of that sighting, and the fifty year anniversary coming up, I'm getting some very interesting responses to my question on "What is the most significant UFO event of the past fifty years?" The 1952 Washington D.C. flap is still going strong, although I've had several votes for there being =no= significant events, that, basically, there's nothing to it. I will accept votes through June 18th. I have to formalize a format, though, since a number of people have named a couple of things and then sort of left it up to me to pick, which doesn't work. I'll let you "split" your single vote between up to four events. If you pick two as "most significant", then each one will get one half of a vote. You may also name up to ten "honorable mentions". I'll put these into a special, separate category. They'll get mentioned, but won't be counted in the tally. Here's a "form" to help structure it: _____________________________________ The most significant UFO event of the past fifty years is ______________________ (you get one vote here, but you may split it up to four ways) My honorable mentions (up to ten) are __________________ ______________________________________ If you have already voted, I would appreciate it if you do so again using this format. If you haven't, please do...the more, the better. Now, let's get into the listings! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS is running a bunch of Tarzan movies this week, especially Saturday. Why is that appropriate? In the books, Tarzan was not raised by one of the apes science recognizes, but by an unknown species, more hominid than chimps...essentially, a bigfoot/yeti/yowie/etc. type. Virtually every sitcom has done a UFO episode: SOAP's airs on the Comedy Channel on Friday at 8:00 AM and 2:00 PM. PICKET FENCES has one of their "weird" episodes, AWAY IN A MANGER, about cows that may have been injected with "alien DNA", on FX on Saturday at 11:00 PM. From cows to lambs, Hush Puppy (who is a dog...is this confusing?) is visited by an alien on THE PLANET YZARC (od yeht evah tobors ereht? Teg ti?) on LAMB CHOP'S PLAY ALONG on Tuesday. On CHiPS on TNT on Thursday at 9:00 AM, agirl robs a jewelry store because THE SPACEMAN MADE ME DO IT. RUPERT, on Nickelodeon on Thurday at 10:00 AM has RUPERT AND THE UFO. Shows don't only do UFOs...a common sitcom plot is for one character to apparently become psychic, like Screech on SAVED BY THE BELL on Thursday at 2:05 PM on TBS. Then there are ghosts: a 1700s witch may haunt the Inn, but Dick doesn't think so in THE STRATFORD HORROR PICTURE SHOW episode of NEWHART at 10:00 PM on Nickelodeon; and GRACE UNDER FIRE (a show whose star has claimed a close encounter) has THE GHOST AND MRS. KELLY on Wednesday on ABC at 8:00 PM. Wednesday at 6:00 PM and 10:00 PM on THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, we get one of the classics, EARTH VS. THE FLYING SAUCERS. BOOKS* Strom Thurmond is upset because he says he didn't know he was writing a foreword to a UFO crash book on Roswell...more soon. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. NOTE: THE FOLLOWING NOTICE HAS BEEN PRESENTED WITHOUT EDITING BY ME, AND REPRESENTS THEIR OWN OPINIONS. IT IS NOT A PAID AD. June 7, 7pm: Sophia Center on Marylhurst Campus, Portland Oregon. Return engagement: ilyes will be offering an update CropCircle slide Presentation, which will include the '97s we've received to-date. The stunning and controversial *Oliver's Castle video footage* (seen on Sightings and Strange Universe) will also be shown. Contact Cindy at 503/ 636-0528 for particulars. Melinda Leslie -- "UFO Abductions and the Military" Saturday, June 14 1:00 - 5:00 Public Lecture (with slides) $10 1st Unitarian Society 900 Mount Curve Ave. Minneapolis, Minnesota Also at the same place: 9:-11:30 AM Workshop for abductees, therapists & researchers $15 MAGAZINES, NEWSLETTERS, PERIODICALS, ETC. I've got some things to cover (promised you UFO REALITY this week), but I'll have to do it in a separate post if I'm going to get this out on time. ONLINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. They didn't list ahead, this week, that I could see. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-8 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of June 2, THE UNDERNEATH (mutant stalks the sewers!); PHANTOM LIMB (farmer loses arm, gains mysterious powers) --week of June 9, THE TRANSIENT (is a dybbuk possessing people?); TWO LOST OLD MEN (did two people age 30 years after passing through a mysterious area?) Saturday, June 7 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, Cloning; 5:30 PM PSI EXPLORER, CD designed to help you get psychic, by creator Mario Varvoglis; 6:00 PM, Jan Wolterman, author*, discusses AMAZING COINCIDENCES; 6:30 PM, Barbara Condron, author of THE DREAMER'S DICTIONARY; the last hour this week is dedicated to two fictional bits, the first with John Clute of ENCYCLOPEDIAS OF SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY, the second with Leonard Nimoy and John DeLancie, who have a joint audio product out of THE TIME MACHINE 1:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ANCIENT PROPHECIES III-PART 1 (BVM ((Blessed Virgin Mary)) sightings; Amerind doom tales; and millenial end of the world prophecies...gee, does that mean I should run up my credit cards in the next three years? :) ) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: UFOs (includes the story of Bob Taylor, who had his pants damaged by balls with spikes ((watch it!)) connected with a UFO) 3:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ANCIENT PROPHECIES III - PART 2 (Hypnotic "pre-life progression" ((the opposite of past-life regression))...Dr. Bruce Goldberg wrote a book* on this and has been making the publicity circuit for it; more doom and gloom...what happened to the Age of Aquarius?) Sunday, June 8 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Art interviews John Greer, author of PATHS OF WISDOM* LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5065): 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: FALLING PHENOMENA (fish, etc., falling from the sky...happens more often then you would think) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5065): 7:00 PM, FOX, BEYOND BELIEF: new series...presents "real" paranormal cases, and phony ones, and you get to guess which ones are which 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5065): Monday, June 9 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: GULF BREEZE UFOS (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#52): no details available Tuesday, June 10 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: BIZARRE FAMILY TREE: a 9,000 year old corpse has DNA matching a modern teacher (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#1): ARE UFO'S REAL?; QI (CHI) GONG HEALING; THE MAGIC BEHIND WITCHCRAFT Wednesday, June 11 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#2): NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES; NATURAL DISASTERS; END OF THE WORLD...gee, doesn't this episode make you feel all warm and fuzzy? ;) Thursday, June 12 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: CROP CIRCLE VIDEO(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#3): ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER; MOODY LIGHTS ("ghost lights" in Indiana); CALLING ALL SPIRITS (includes a session of channeling, examines different techniques) 6:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE MYSTERY OF THE CRYSTAL SKULLS 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL AMERICA-- 48 HOURS: PSYCHICS & SKEPTICS 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERY CATS (they seem to be including the possible survival of the Tasmanian Thylacine here, which was definitely not a cat ((even a marsupial one)) and officially became extinct in 1936) 10:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE MYSTERY OF THE CRYSTAL SKULLS 11:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL AMERICA-- 48 HOURS: PSYCHICS & SKEPTICS Friday, June 13 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERY CATS (they seem to be including the possible survival of the Tasmanian Thylacine here, which was definitely not a cat ((even a marsupial one)) and officially became extinct in 1936) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#4): Special ALL-ROSWELL episode 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: 8:30 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, LEGENDS OF THE ISLES: THE LOCH NESS MONSTER 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS -- MEDICAL RESCUE WEEK: GLORIA'S TOXIC DEATH (this is what I call the "Fumes of Doom" case, where a patient in an emergency room in L.A. in Feb. 1994 allegedly emitted some toxic odor that knocked out E.R. personnel) 11:30 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, LEGENDS OF THE ISLES: THE LOCH NESS MONSTER This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 {75} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:32:40 -0400 Subject: {75} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' 5th June, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 - Issue 75 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {75} part 1 or part 2 -[continued]- 9.00 pm. Witness, 3 miles north of Glandwr (7 miles south of Cardigan) saw a bright flash of light outside. Went out of the house to investigate and saw intermittent very bright flashes, approx 2 seconds in duration. They were seen in a northerly direction which lit up the surrounding cloud. The weather was clear and definitely not lightning. There was a 5 minute pause between the groups of flashes. 9.30 pm. Cardigan Bus Depot. Witness saw flashing blue, red and yellow lights which lit up the surrounding white clouds very clearly. The flashing lasted about 10 minutes and was accompanied by "crackling like static". Not a storm. Aberystwyth Area 8.50 pm. A witness in Rhydyfelen, just south of Aberystwyth, saw an object out of his living room window. It was travelling extremely fast and very low over the roof tops. The object appeared to have a white light at the front and a red light to the rear, this appeared to merge as the craft was moving so fast. No sound was heard, the object moved very rapidly and out of sight towards the sea (W). 9.10 pm. Witness in Rhydyfelen saw a brilliant white column of light, "about 10 times higher than it was wide", for 2/3 seconds about 2 miles out into Cardigan Bay. It was reported to the police as she felt it could be a distress flare. No ships or boats were at sea at the time. The following day the local police reported that they had been contacted by police in Hereford to say that an identical column of light had been seen there at the same time - no further information available. Time unknown (before 9.30 pm). Sub-editor with local paper talked to someone in Aberystwyth who had seen a bright light in the sky overhead. 10.30 - 11.00 pm. Two witnesses at Llanbadarn Fawr saw a large grey mass flying along the valley tops of the Rheidol Valley. The object was emitting a slowly pulsating streak of light. It flew in an arc out into Cardigan Bay where it was seen to hover in a pillar of light. The object made several circles of Aberystwyth during the 30 minutes it was observed. Diameter of circles was approx. 15 - 20 miles. Movement of the object described as being a mile or so at a time on each pulse of horizontal light (much brighter than sheet lightning.) The flashes were between 1 - 3 seconds long, sometimes there were multiple flashes between 3 - 7 seconds in duration. No sound was heard. The object's speed was said to be much faster than a normal jet, almost too fast for the naked eye to track. Object finally disappeared off towards Nant-y-moch and the Hafren Forest. Weather described as hazy with 25% cloud cover, dry with a light breeze and near freezing temperature. Cardigan Bay Coast Time unknown. Two witnesses in Aberaeron contacted the local coastguard on seeing bright flashes going off in Cardigan Bay. Coastguards arrived after flashes had stopped and assumed the flashes were lightning. No storm was reported in the area. Time unknown. Witness at Llangrannog reported seeing bright white flashes going off over Cardigan Bay every few seconds. 5.30-6.30 pm several separate witnesses saw 2 RAF Hercules transport planes flying low, they were following each other closely together and at moderate speed. They were seen near New Quay travelling up the coast (S-N) towards Aberystwyth. n.b. this single report is included for information but is not considered to be related to the other sightings neither do we consider that the Hercules were mistaken for the FT by any witnesses. There is a possibility that they might have been sent as 'decoys' to conveniently account for any forthcoming UFO reports but admittedly, we have no evidence to support this. 8 - 9 pm (uncertain) witness left his house at top of the hill in Ffosyffin, he saw the horizon brilliantly lit up about 20 miles out to sea. The white light seemed to have a "central core" and was "sitting over the horizon". There was continuous illumination for 30 secs-1 minute. He called his father who also witnessed the light and shortly afterwards they spoke to several others who had also seen the light/s. 9.10 - 9.15 pm Driver going North to Aberystwyth at Llanrhystud saw a bright white flash that lit up the sky for two seconds. Definitely not lightning. No sound. 10.10 pm. Driver at Llanon, coming south on coast road, saw an enormous burst of white light to his right (i.e. seawards), like a 1,000 fireworks going off at once. No sound. Teifi Valley 9.0 - 9.30 pm.(approx). Bright flashes of light seen behind Adpar hill by witnesses in Newcastle Emlyn (i.e. to the East). 9.30 pm.(approx) Driver and four passengers were on route to Llanybydder from Pencader, approx 1 mile from home when they spotted a moving white light low over the tree tops moving an NE direction. Initially thought this was a shooting star but it was too low and lasted too long and was too slow. As object moved across sky it changed to an orange colour before disappearing in a brilliant white flash. Witnesses thought it may have been a plane crashing so investigated area but nothing was found. No sound heard. 9.20 pm. Bright flashes of light seen westward of Llanfair Clydogau by witness while driving, seen approx 700 feet above sea level (NE of Lampeter). Had a panoramic view over the area. Particularly noticed two very bright flashes close together. 9.45 pm. Driver in the vicinity of Llandewi Brefi (NE of Lampeter) saw a bright white flash illuminate the sky and the surrounding area and was almost blinded by it. Then saw a second flash, not so intense, further to the north. Thought the light had come from an adjacent field about 100 yards further on the right and had the impression that there may have been a rectangular object. Clear night, no thunder or other noise heard. Shrewsbury / Welshpool / Machynlleth Driver going home from Birmingham to Aberystwyth area. 10.00 pm saw a bright green "star" descending vertically on the horizon in the direction of Shrewsbury (i.e. to the West). Further along the A5 came across a police diversion due to what looked like deliberately spilled pile of sand. Diversion took them through Shrewsbury and back on to the A5 and thence the A458. As they approached the Trewern Bridge (5 miles NE of Welshpool) they saw the first in a series of extremely bright, bluey white flashes that projected upwards from behind the hills to their right (i.e. North). The flashes continued every 4/5 minutes until they reached the east side of Welshpool, when they seemed to be left behind. Witnesses bewildered! 30 minutes later, in the Mallwyd area, 3 very bright flashes dazzled witnesses. This time flashes came from in front of them (i.e. West) as well as behind the hills to their right (i.e. North). Witness also reported seeing several military helicopters flying in a "hurried fashion" during the drive home - exact location unknown. Subsequent Investigation As one of the initial explanations for the flashing lights had been that there was an electrical storm in the area, the Met Office were contacted. According to their records there was no report of a storm that night, although they said they could not rule one out. No witnesses in the entire area heard any thunder that evening, nor was there any rain. Weather was generally described as "clear", with patchy cloud. It seems impossible that a storm could traverse such a wide area and not give any rain or thunder. Furthermore, many witnesses described the flashes as coming from ground level and the range of colours and length of flashes is atypical of a storm. Conclusion is simple. No storm. As much of the area is designated as a Military low-flying and missile testing area it seemed a good idea to contact the Ministry of Defence. They simply trotted out the usual line about there being "no UFO sighting reported in the area at the time that was considered to be of defence significance" and that "there was no unusual air defence activity, no penetration by hostile military aircraft of the UK Air Defence Region, no unknown aircraft activity on any military radars and that no Quick Reaction Alert Aircraft were scrambled". Incidentally, such quotations as worded above would prove useful if and when such time arises as a new technology craft is announced as the MoD could simply truthfully say that, "yes - it was not unidentified" (we knew), and "yes - it was not of defence significance" (it was one of ours)! With a 'secret-technology' hypothesis the answer would both be true and logical whilst neatly sidestepping the real issue - another indication of the usual modus operandi of the MoD. The MoD did inform us that two air-to-air missiles had been fired from Aberporth testing station that morning but this, of course, would not have been at the relevant time. There also seems to be a contradiction in there being a ground-based firing range firing an air-to-air missile but this may well have been a typographical error. In any event, the missiles would probably have been fired from land or sea along the Cardigan Bay coast into Cardigan Bay and certainly not towards land. Interestingly, the Aberystwyth Police informed us that two RAF Hercules aircraft had been seen in the area on the day but unfortunately they could not confirm the time for this. Hercules are known for low-flying in this area and may be responsible for some UFO sightings involving small flashing aerial lights. However, to our knowledge, they have never been associated with the huge brilliant white flashes nor the Flying Triangle-type-craft as seen by many witnesses. It is interesting that the MoD did not report the existence of the low flying Hercules. We were unable to find out if there were any civilian aircraft, blimps or so forth in the air. However, it would seem unlikely for them to be around during the night at low altitude in a designated RAF low-flying area. Aberystwyth police claimed that a civilian pilot on an inward bound transatlantic flight contacted Air Traffic Control at Heathrow asking about bright flashes of light but ATC referred us to the military ATC at West Drayton and no information on this has been forthcoming. Initial news reports on the radio on the following day claimed that local police and the RAF "UFO Unit" were investigating UFO reports from West Wales, the Midlands and Herefordshire. We were unable to get further information as to the source of this news. It is possible that the witness in Hereford, mentioned above, may have been responsible as he is a radio producer for the local radio station. It seems unbelievable that this news would have been given out if there had been an easy explanation for the sightings. None of the local police stations contacted gave any indication of having been contacted by a "RAF UFO Unit" or of there having been any official enquiry. So officially we drew a complete blank - nobody was willing to give us information other than to follow the official line that nothing happened that night. None of the police stations contacted reported having received any calls from the public (other than Aberystwyth with one single report) nor that any of their officers had seen anything unusual whilst on duty that night. And yet we have 18 reports, many of them by multiple witnesses of seeing something very unusual happening in the skies of mid and west Wales on the evening of 21st November 1996. Although it is possible that the two earliest reports are unrelated to the main events (although Omar Fowler subsequently informed us that there had indeed been elliptical craft - with tailfins - sighted in the Midlands only a week or two prior to our report!) it still leaves 16 reports which are all unexplained, other than that they all are consistent with the Flying Triangle "UFO" reports that have been compiled by various sources, in particular Omar Fowlers Phenomena Research Association. Correspondences of reports on 21st Nov sightings with other reports. Shape. Two reports of witnesses clearly identified the outline of a triangular craft. One of those reports also gave the rounded corners which are sometimes characteristic of these craft. Sound. In general there was no sound associated with the reports, with the exception of the low overflight at Penparc, when a loud rumbling noise was heard. This is typical of other reports, the Flying Triangle is normally silent unless one is directly underneath it and it is flying slow and low. Lights. These can be divided into three groups: white flashes, coloured flashes and orange glow. One of the most outstanding "trademarks" of Flying Triangle reports are brilliant, almost blinding white flashes. These usually, but not always occur when the craft rapidly accelerates or decelerates. These often occur in pairs as it appears the craft often hovers or flies very slowly for 5 minutes or so before taking off in a flash at tremendous speed only to "stop on a sixpence" 5 seconds later. Several witnesses saw two closely timed flashes, some distance apart. Besides these flashes, several witnesses saw flashing red and blue lights. Note that normal aircraft operating at night have continuously flashing anti-collision and navigation lights, which are red, white and green. These are never extremely bright and do not go on only every 5 minutes or so. Whatever the Flying Triangle is, it does not conform to standard aeronautical practice! There are numerous variations between observed lights coming from FT's but blue and red are quite common, along with green, yellow and white. Lights in the tips are also a common feature as is a white light on the leading tip and an orange one in the centre. Finally the yellow/orange glow that direct observers of the craft saw, just prior in two cases, to its taking off in a flash. Again this is standard for the FT, it would appear that the orange/yellow glow could represent some form of "Charging-up" of the air around the craft to enable rapid acceleration. Electro-magnetic disturbances. One witness reported that the air seemed charged with static. Again not uncommon, and perhaps indicative that the motive power for these craft is not conventional jet power. Following lights. Initially this sounded very unusual but Omar Fowler's booklet actually reports many such lights, sometimes singular, as in the Penparc report, sometimes multiple. Speed. Our reports are again very typical of FT phenomena. It would appear that the craft operate in two modes: hovering or slow (50 - 100 knots) and extremely fast (speed unknown but appears to disappear "in a flash" with no appreciable transition between the two (seemingly inertia-free). Again this is not conventionally possible either in terms of propulsion devices or in terms of the inertial effect on possible crew members (the g forces would, in a conventional aircraft would cause a blackout or even totally squash the crew not to mention the probability of wrecking the machine itself!). Operating height. For some reason these craft spend most of their time flying at very low altitude. Typical phrases are "just above the roof-tops", "behind the hills" and so forth. Given the speed that these craft operate at when accelerating (which most estimate to be well in excess of Mach 1 - yet no sonic boom!) this would appear to be extremely dangerous, yet there is no evidence that there is any way the crew (if any) can see where they are going - no cockpits are sighted and the edges of the craft appear to be solid. Logos or insignia are not seen, Neither are any aerials, masts or other normal distinguishing features. A further consideration is that if, as seems likely, the craft operates within an intense electro-magnetic field, then conventional magnetic compasses, radar and radio would be appear to be useless, so how the craft navigates and tracks other craft in the area and communicates (if it indeed does so) remains a mystery. It is possible that navigation is by an inertial system and that some form of laser or microwave-based digital pulsed communication system is involved. This may also account for the lack of IFF transponder response which has been alleged in other encounters with the craft. Size. No witnesses were able to give a reliable estimate of the size. One, possibly of "jet airliner size" in length, is the closest report given for the 21st November sigthing. From other sources we know that many other witnesses have seen craft of this type and shape ranging in size from 30 feet to 700 feet in length. In some cases even quoted as "the size of a football pitch"! The accuracy in judging the size would greatly depend on an accurate judgement on the height of the craft above the observer. This can be particularly difficult against a dark sky with no other point of reference especially if the craft perhaps has some special kind of non-reflective 'stealthy' coating. Time and Date. Although these craft have been seen in daytime and summer, they are most commonly seen in the evening during the hours of darkness in autumn and winter, as was the case with our reports. Conclusion Mid and West Wales were definitely visited by one or more (probably two) craft of the "Flying Triangle" type on the evening of 21st November 1996. Speculation on the Identity of the Flying Triangle "UFO". There are two schools of thought about these craft. Either they are "Our Secret Technology", that is they are terrestrial in design, manufacture and operation or they are extra-terrestrial in some or all of those aspects. There can be no doubt that whichever is true, the Flying Triangle is more typical of other "UFOs" than it is of any publicly known terrestrial aircraft type in either design, propulsion or use. All of the reported characteristics of the FT are familiar to anyone who has studied the 'UFO' phenomenon and their variously differing designs and characteristics. This similarity would suggest a common source and/or propulsion system. Nearly all "UFOs" manage to combine the ability to move practically silently, apart from a humming/whirring noise when very close to the observer; the ability to change speed and direction in an instant; a range of speeds from hovering and very slow upwards to extremely fast - some claim above Mach 10; they often give off electro-magnetic effects, including interference with TVs and radios, car electrics etc; they are often seen to be inside a glowing (usually red/orange/yellow) field of, presumably electrically charged/ionised air; their arrival and departure is often spectacularly bright and rapid and so forth. In short all these craft, including the Flying Triangle, appear to be propelled by an some form of electro-magnetic device which also could possibly act as an anti-gravity force-field providing for inertia-free acceleration/deceleration and flight. Rather than this speculation being a flight of fancy (forgive the pun), it is understood, for example, that ARCO together with Japanese scientists test-flew an aircraft 150 miles in Canada in 1987 using a microwave energy source and that theoretically, an aircraft powered in this way would be able to fly almost indefinitely provided the power continued to be beamed at it. It is worthy of note that many reports of the 'next generation' stealth aircraft suggest that they are remotely piloted vehicles (RPV's) with virtual reality control from the ground, via satellite or from conventional aeroplanes such as the AWACS-type 747 - more probably a combination of the three. This would alleviate the problems associated with high g-force effects on pilots. It seems bizarre that if this is terrestrial technology that has been around for 50 years, at least, nobody has been found to be manufacturing or designing such craft (or paying for them!) Similarly, they might need to be crewed (unless remotely controlled) and certainly maintained but again nobody has come forward to claim to have done so. Furthermore, before such craft would have been built the underlying technology and scientific theory would need to have been publicly discussed to ensure that the project was viable. With regard to the Flying Triangle in particular, these have been around for at least 10 years in their present designs, and have been very widely reported when flying around - yet where do they come from, where are they based? It is believed that British Aerospace have prototype scaled-down versions of this design operating from Wharton in Lancashire, but they are a mere 30 feet long and have only been flying for a year at the most. It seems most unlikely that BAe would build full-scale aircraft of such an unconventional design, operate them and then only afterwards, build the scaled down prototypes! A conjecture that is not generally considered by other researchers is that the Flying Triangle flight characteristics and styling are partly or wholly modelled on the assumed manoeuvres and physical form of extra-terrestrial craft - whether real or otherwise. The reasons for this possibility could be either to divert public attention from a top secret military project with obvious earthly origins and/or to purposefully reinforce a manufactured public belief system in an extra-terrestrial 'reality'. For whatever reason the latter may be so, we can only guess as to why. There does seem to be a mounting body of evidence to suggest that widespread covert forces exist to spread counter dis-information to actually reinforce a ET reality. This double-bluff is contrary to the popular belief that the UK, US and other governments are attempting to hide the reality of an extra-terrestrial presence. However, regrettably, this alternative theory is not readily absorbed by the growing body of biased researchers who seem bent on 'proving' an extra-terrestrial connection. It may turn out that they are being used to perpetuate the myth - only time will tell! It is interesting to note that in 1987 there was some public concern over a British Aerospace facility in the Hafren Forest in Powis due, in part, to anomalous "strobe-like" lights being seen over the hill tops in the area. BAe refused, at the time to inform the locals about what was going on but did say that they had chosen the site (in a disused quarry in the middle of a huge forest) due to its distance from domestic and industrial electromagnetic "smog". We are currently investigating whether BAe is still operating at the site and its purpose - it certainly wasn't or isn't a conventional airfield or manufacturing site! However, it is possible that the UK Government has given permission to another government (USA?) for the Flying Triangle craft to be test-flown over Wales and elsewhere in exchange for technological know-how or additional defence facilities. It maybe that given the apparent massive discharges of electro-magnetic energy coming from this type of craft that it is not permitted to fly in certain countries, but that the UK is once again acting as the USA's hand-maiden. With the UK's secrecy laws and culture of denial in the civil service it would be easier to maintain a "plausible denial" of FT operations here. Other considerations include: if they are of terrestrial origin who has given them permission to fly so low over populated and rural areas, with a propulsion system that is guaranteed to be spotted by anyone who is out and about (hardly stealth!) and so low that when it "flashes" it practically blinds any motorist who has the misfortune to be nearby. Further, to operate in British skies it would need to have been granted a certificate of air-worthiness, which should be publicly available for inspection. On the other hand some reports of 'close encounters' with purported Flying Triangle "crews" have suggested that they are flown by USA military personnel, but how reliable these reports are is a matter for conjecture and beyond the scope of this report. Elaborate hoaxes may not be beyond the bounds of possibility. So, what to conclude? We are reluctant to suggest the extra-terrestrial hypothesis in the absence of any positive evidence but we cannot confirm the terrestrial alternative for similar reasons. However, a terrestrial alternative does seem the most likely and logical explanation given the evidence available to-date. Until further evidence is produced, the jury must remain out on the true nature and origin of these craft. One thing is most definitely certain - they exist and they are here! Current Investigations We are currently researching the possible propulsion system and power source/s of the Flying Triangle and hope to publish a further report on this subject in the future. We are willing to exchange information with others in this field and would welcome contact with like-minded researchers. Our local M.P. Mr Cynog Dafis (Plaid Cymru), has expressed an interest in our preliminary report and has agreed to actively pursue the matter further. It is hoped that the issue will be raised through the House of Commons Parliamentary Questions procedure. Further Reading Fowler, Omar. The Flying Triangle Mystery. 1996. Phenomenon Research Association. 94 The Circle, Sinfin, Derby, DE24 9HR. Compilation of Flying Triangle reports, mainly from the UK. Suggests an extra-terrestrial origin. Matthews, Tim. Stealth, Lies and Videotapes. 1997. Lancashire UFO Society. PO Box 73, Lancaster, LA1 1GZ. Suggests Flying Triangles are of terrestrial origin and that British Aerospace are involved in developing a UK version. Sheffield, Derek. Deadly Concealment. 1996. Blandford. The Henry Root approach to UFOlogy as the author attempts to get an honest answer out of the authorities regarding the Belgian Flying Triangle sitings in the early 1990's. Adam Whaley & Richard Alexander The West Wales Paranormal Group. 23rd May 1997 World News ---------- [W 1]****** From: duncan@life.com Date: 15th May 1997 Two new films to watch out for Actors Jodie Foster and Tom Hanks are at this moment filming 'Contact' for Warner Brothers. The locations so far mentioned are the United States, New Mexico and Puerto Rico. It is apparently based on the late Carl Sagan's book and involves a researcher who discovers an intelligible radio signal from a distant star. It is reported that Steven Spielburg is the executive producer of a new film 'Deep Impact'. It is based on the book 'The Hammer of God' by Arthur C. Clarke and revolves around the action of three characters when scientists discover a comet is on a collision course with Earth. There are no details as yet of release dates for these films. [W 2]****** Source: Sunday Mirror newspaper Date: Sunday 18th May 1997 Fling from outer space X Files star Gillian Anderson said this week that she'd like to have sex with an alien. Judging by the look of her ex-boyfriend (pictured left in one episode) I'd say she already has. [W 3]****** Source: Strange But True - Teletext Date: Sunday 25 May 1997 Sightings of the Virgin Mary in the sky were reported in the South Pacific islands of Western Samoa this week. Witnesses said they saw the image on the horizon in the early morning surrounded by bright colours, according to Father Paulino Kolio, head of the parish of Sanaii island. Around 100 people also claimed they saw images of the Eucharist and Holy Grail. [W 4]****** Source: Teletext World News Date: Thursday 15th May 1997 Laser beams USA defence chiefs have protested to Russia after two pilots were blinded by laser beams fired from a supply ship. [W 5]****** COLUMBIA TRISTAR FILMS [UK] A SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY PRESS RELEASE MEN IN BLACK 1 August 1997 sees the much anticipated UK release of this summer's hottest new film, the sci-fi action comedy blockbuster from Steven Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment, MEN IN BLACK. 'Protecting the earth from the scum of the universe', Men in Black stars Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones as Agents K and J - the universe's best kept secret. Working for a highly-funded yet unofficial government agency, they provide immigration services an >From the director of Get Shorty (Barry Sonnenfeld) and the producers of the box-office smash Twister (Walter F. Parkes and Laurie MacDonald) ,the stylish and special-effect filled Men In Black is based on the Lowell Cunningham comic book series and is exe The Men In Black film soundtrack will be released imminently on Columbia Records and features the hugely charismatic Will Smith singing/rapping the title track (and first single) 'Men In Black', as well as starring in the dazzling accompanying effects driven music video, which is produced by the Acadamy award winning 'Industrial Light and Magic' team and which features actors and characters from the film. Also forthcoming later this year is the action packed TV series 'Men In Black', a Columbia Tristar TV production which will run on the Kids WB! network Stateside. [W 6]****** Source: News Of The World newspaper Date: Sunday 11 May 1997 Shiny alien pops up on home video A video of a glowing orange dwarf with stumpy antennae on it head is the first film evidence of a living alien, claim UFO watchers. The creature is shown moving around a half flattened maize field in Mexico. UFO follower Sarah Quevaz took the 28 second clip as a space craft hovered above. Ken Parsons, chairman of the British Earth and Aerial Mysteries Society, says the "extremely important" film will be shown at the Society's Forbidden Knowledge Convention this year. [W 7]****** Source: Teletext News Date: Wednesday 14th May 1997 Supersonic pair set for dual The world's fastest man Richard Noble has announced plans to race rival Craig Breedlove across the Nevada desert in a battle to break the sound barrier. The holder of the land speed record will spend six weeks striving against his American competitor in a bid to go supersonic and reach 750 mph. Mr Noble will fly to Jordan next week to prepare for the challenge. [W 8}****** Source: Teletext World News Date: Saturday 17th May 1997 Spanish Vultures Spain. Vultures in Navarre have apparently developed a taste for fresh meat and have killed a number of sheep, authorities said. [W 9]****** Source: Teletext world News Date: Friday 30 May 1997 Flintstones we're the Flintstones Holland: a pilot who insisted on singing the Flintstones cartoon theme over his small planes radio has been jailed for interfering with air traffic control. [W 10]****** Source: CNN Date: October 4th 1996 Mysterious flash lights up Western sky 'I've never seen anything like it' October 4, 1996 Web posted at: 11:45 a.m. EDT LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- A mysterious flash lit the Western sky from San Francisco to central New Mexico, fueling speculation that a UFO whizzed by, a low-flying plane swooped overhead or a chunk of space rock fell from the sky. What the thing was remains a mystery, though an astronomer said it might have been a "piece of asteroid." People from California to New Mexico reported the strange flash shortly before 9 p.m. Thursday. Witnesses said it was an intensely bright bluish-green light which streaked across the sky for just a few seconds. Kevin Mullins with Kern County California Fire Department told CNN they received several calls from people claiming to have seen the mysterious light. Christine Church of Belen, New Mexico, described the object as having a row of five to six lights lined up horizontally. At first, she thought it was an airplane about to crash, but when she went out to investigate she found nothing. "There was no noise, no crash and the lights were gone," Church told CNN. "I've never seen anything like it." A television news helicopter pilot said he swerved to avoid what he at first thought was a spotlight from another helicopter. But NASA officials downplayed the sightings saying the object might have been a falling satellite, and an astronomer at Los Angeles' Griffith Park Observatory said the flash was probably caused by space debris burning up as it entered the atmosphere. "This is probably the biggest flash we've seen in two years," said astronomer John Moseley. "The meteor was probably a crumbly piece of asteroid, or possibly a fragment of a comet." [W 11]****** Source: Somerset News Date: March 12, 1997 Contact or crisis At approximately 0137 hours this morning the radio telescope array at Jodrell Bank detected a ticking, bleeping noise, believed at first to be a pulsar in the Crab Nebula, however after double-checking with other radio telescope stations across the globe, it is believed that the signal is being transmitted from the star Epsilon Eridanus, almost nineteen light-years from Earth. Further investigation is believed to be taking place, although no announcements have yet been made. [W 12]****** Source: Teletext Strange But True Date: Monday 1st June 1997 Ice cubes from space Ice cubes from space the size of a house are plunging into the atmosphere, astronomers have revealed. The giant chunks of ice, weighing as much as 20 tonnes have been pictured by a Nasa satellite. Luckily, the space ice poses no threat since it melts while still hundreds of thousands of kilometres above the earth. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. Connect to irc.mirage.co.uk and join us on channel #UFO For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 {75} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:30:57 -0400 Subject: {75} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' 5th June, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 - Issue 75 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {75} part 1 or part 2 In this issue: Editorial --------- UK.UFO.NW weekly IRC (internet relay chat) meetings. UFO Magazines Skywatch 30 - 31st August 1997 Real Audio - Wing Commander Tony Webb - Maria Ward United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] Astra at Lakenheath? [UK 2] Hot air balloons may return [UK 3] UFO Group "UFO Concern" [UK 4] Aliens fly over Brum [UK 5] A British Defence official examines tales of alien abduction [UK 6] Quicker-thinking computer tackles birth of universe [UK 7] Wales Flying Triangle Update World News ---------- [W 1] Two new films to watch out for [W 2] Fling from outer space [W 3] Sightings of the Virgin Mary in the sky [W 4] Laser beams [W 5] Men In Black [W 6] Shiny alien pops up on home video [W 7] Supersonic pair set for dual [W 8] Spanish Vultures [W 9] Flintstones we're the Flintstones [W 10] Mysterious flash lights up Western sky [W 11] Contact or crisis [W 12] Ice cubes from space Editorial --------- UK.UFO.NW weekly IRC (internet relay chat) meetings. Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. If you are using at least one of the following web browers: Netscape 3 ++ MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ Simply enter one of the below url (world wide web) addresses. When the 'ultrachat' page has loaded you will see a large grey filled box somewhere on the screen. It may then take a few more seconds for the java script to load and run. The grey area will then turn white and you will be asked to enter a nickname. Your own name or a nickname will suffice here. Once you press return you will be presented with various bits of information scrolling up the screen. After a few seconds you will be connected to the uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel. Down the right hand side of the screen you will see a list of the people currently on channel. At the bottom of the screen is where you type your messages. The large upper left section of the screen is were you read and follow the proceedings of the meetings. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.elector.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm http://razorsedge.dyndns.com/~lwelch The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City The uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visit the channel at any time. There is usually someone there to talk to. For those of you needing help connecting with dedicated irc programs such as the excellent MIRC send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk We look forward to seeing as many of you as possible at future meetings. Thanks to Crow & Raine for looking after the irc side of things and to those of you who are hosting a java html page on your web site allowing connection to the #UFO channel. If anyone out there would also like to host a uk.ufo.nw irc #UFO page on your web site look out for further details coming to you soon. -- Source: UFO Magazine On Saturday and Sunday, 30 - 31 August 1997, thousands of enthusiasts will once again participate in a UFO Skywatch promoted by UFO Magazine. Last year, dozens of organisations took part in the first national event of it's kind and despite unseasonable weather, in the majority of instances most agreed it was an exercise well worth repeating. Although the 1996 Skywatch was predominantly an all British affair, many overseas groups and individuals took it upon themselves to stage a Skywatch that same weekend. The 1997 International UFO Skywatch 30 - 31 August The 1997 Skywatch will be co-ordinated round the clock from our offices here in West Yorkshire. Teams of volunteers will be manning the phones from 9.00 pm (Friday 29 August) ready to receive and and pass on information at a moments notice. Information will also be available through the Internet as we seek to encourage active participation by groups and individuals around the world. If you would like to take part, simply send us a s.a.e. For our Skywatch Information Pack which contains helpful advice and free UFO sighting report forms. UFO ORGANISATIONS: in order that we can include relevant name/address and contact telephone number's in our July/August 1997 issue, please send us details a.s.a.p. This will appear free of charge in a table of participating groups so that readers in your region can discover where you are holding your Skywatch. Many new members were recruited as a result of last year's efforts by numerous groups. PREFER TO DO THINGS INDEPENDENTLY?: That's not a problem. Readers who don't wish to join a locally organised Skywatch, but prefer instead to go out and about on their own, are still advised to write for a copy of our guidelines which do cover important safety matters. PUBLICITY: there will be a major national media campaign aimed at attracting publicity for participating local, regional and national UFO groups. All press inquiries are rooted to the relevant co-ordinator's and spokesperson's as a matter of course. Skywatch 97 details can be obtained from: UFO Magazine Wharfebank Business Centre, Ilkley road, Otley, LS21 3JP, England. Telephone: (01943) 850 860 Fax: (01943) 850 637 e-mail: gwb@ufomag.co.uk url: http://www.ufomag.co.uk uk.ufo.nw says: We will be holding our own Skywatch over these dates somewhere in Wales. Unfortunately due to restrictions it will not be open to the general public. However may we suggest that you get the next issue of UFO Magazine June / July 1997 which will list addresses and telephone numbers of organisations you may want to contact. As described in the information above you could always organise your own. uk.ufo.nw will also try to list organisations taking part in a future issue. If you are aware of any organised events anywhere in the world and would like the details published here free (of course) please send the relevant information to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk -- Real Audio UK.UFO.NW would like to thank Alan Connan of Alan Connan's World, Royal 945AM Liverpool on 945 KHz - 317 Metres Medium Wave and retired RAF Wing Commander Tony Webb for allowing us to encode a recent interview on Alan's radio show between himself and Wing Commander Tony Webb. Tony discusses a sighting he and his aircrew had while flying in 1972. Real Audio file: ukufonw.ra - size 708Kb - Running time 13 minutes Readers may also be interested in another Real Audio file available for download which ties in somewhat with the Maria Ward story at [UK 5] below. Esther Rantzen interviewed Maria amongst other UFO witnesses and abductees. We are sure you will find this very interesting. Real Audio file: esther.ra - size 1.691Kb - Running time 29 minutes. Both files can be downloaded from: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ Select the Real Audio button to go to the relevant page. or the below ftp addresses: ftp://ftp.ufo.grid9.net/ufo/sounds/ukufonw.ra ftp://ftp.ufo.grid9.net/ufo/sounds/esther.ra United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** From: duncan@life.com Source: AirForces Monthly Magazine Date: June 1997 Astra at Lakenheath? It has been reported that the Astra aircraft operated from RAF Lakenheath between April 7-11. Night-time flights were believed to have taken place up until 0400hrs, though no visual sightings have been confirmed. After-dark visits by C-5 Galaxy transports, possibly the C-5Cs, also took place and although this is not necessarily connected, the fact that they arrived during the night and then departed in the early hours, is rather unusual. Significantly, the level of security at the base has been increased recently and is now just one position from absolute maximum. Additional MoD police and USAF security police have been drafted in and a number of civilians previously allowed access to the base are finding this increasingly refused. In an attempt to restrict viewing from the main road beside the base there is now no stopping allowed and the construction of a tall earth bank inside the perimeter fence is to begin shortly, thus preventing any viewing at all. The enthusiasts car park at the north-eastern end of the runway is still open but since it is MoD property this can be closed without warning. Name and address witheld. [UK 2]****** uk.ufo.nw found the below report rather amusing. Old technology mixing with new plus something else to look out for in the skies above the UK. Source: Police Review magazine Date: Friday 16th May 1997 Hot air balloons may return The next high-tech advance in police air support may be a return to hot air balloons originally used between the two world wars, HMI (Her Majesty's Inspector) John Stevens told the aviation conference. By April 1998, there would be 32 police-based aircraft providing air support to 39 forces in the UK, he said. It was encouraging to see how quickly air support had been developed since it was pioneered in the early eighties. "But I think it is appropriate to mention that in 1921, police in southern England used air support in the form of giant airships at a number of large events, including the Epsom Derby." "Let us wait and see whether we shall witness police-operated airships in the next millenium. They may not become a regular sight, but they could be a cost effective solution in providing aerial support for selected events. [UK 3]****** Source: Weekly Tribune newspaper Date: Thursday 22 May 1997 UFO Group I am writing to introduce readers to the newly formed group "UFO Concern", which aims to raise awareness in the public of the serious nature of UFO phenomenon and highlight the political and social views rarely known outside the UFO community. This Group was founded primarily by Admiral of the Fleet, the Lord Hill - Norton GCB, a former chief of the Defence staff (1971 - 73) and chairman of Nato's military committee (1974 - 77). Consultants to our group are very highly respected, both within the UFO community and in their individual professions. They are: Timothy Good, author of "Above Top Secret - The Worldwide UFO Cover-up"; Ralph Noyes, private secretary to the air Chief Marsh I would like to pass on a comment from Lord Hill - Norton: "It is my view that the first - and most difficult - task will be to persuade the public that there really is a problem - and a serious one at that." Martin Tandy, 48 Norman Avenue, Nuneaton. [UK 4]****** Source: Metronews newspaper Date: Thursday 15 May 1997 Aliens fly over Brum Close encounters of an extra terrestrial kind are closer than first imagined - and now a Birmingham Film Company has captured them on video. The footage of UFOs obtained by Heritage films, usually makers of historical work, reveals a high level of unexplained activity in the skies above Brum. And they have collected as much eye - witness material as possible to show that aliens could have visited Birmingham. The film contains accounts of settings from Sutton Coldfield, Acocks Green, Lickey End, Edgbaston and Erdington. The video is now on sale price 12 pounds 99 pence. [UK 5]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Tuesday 13th May 1997 The Uninvited. A British Defence official examines tales of alien abduction and draws startling conclusions. FOR THREE years, Nick Pope was UFO desk officer at the Ministry of Defence's Secretariat (Air Staff) 2a. He swept aside official reticence about compelling military and civilian evidence of extraterrestrials visiting Earth. Concerned by the national security implications, he wrote Open Skies, Closed Minds, serialised by the Mail and an instant bestseller. All along, though, he was amassing evidence of an even more frightening phenomenon - abduction of humans by aliens. Now, in his new book, which is being serialised by the Mail, Pope reveals his extraordinary conclusion ... by NICK POPE ABDUCTIONS of humans by alien visitors to Earth are fact, not fiction. That, I know, is a startling and shocking statement, but I stand by it. The evidence for abductions is so strong as to be virtually undeniable. At the Ministry of Defence, I started out as a sceptic about UFOs but came to believe that some were genuinely of extraterrestrial origin. At the same time, I slowly accumulated evidence for the abduction of humans by these mysterious aliens. Initially, I was distinctly sceptical about the abduction phenomenon. I believed these claims were made by cranks, and that they devalued 'ufology' and alienated the public. Slowly, though, my views changed. The sheer volume of reports, the common features of independent accounts and the physical and emotional effects on abductees convinced me that we were dealing with more than just hoaxes or psychological delusions. While prosaic explanations accounted for some abductions, they could not explain all of them. Around the world, thousands of people have reported being taken into a craft against their will. Having spoken to hundreds of genuine, well-meaning people, I believe alien abduction may be far more common than even many ufologists suspect. The purpose of this extraterrestrial meddling is, I believe, to 'civilise' human society. Most abductees are neither cranks nor hoaxers. They are only too mindful of the adverse reactions to their claims. Many had their sanity questioned, were called liars and ostracised by family and friends. At the very least, they have risked ridicule. I started off feeling that genetic explanations, centring on an extraterrestrial programme to create a human/alien hybrid race, were the key to the mystery. But why should aliens whose technology is clearly light years ahead of ours bother with the logistical nightmare of thousands of abductions when they could easily remove the genetic material they wanted from our laboratories? Ultimately, though, I discarded the genetic theory because it did not tally with the views of the abductees I met, many of whom had positive feelings about their experiences. This, coupled with the abductees' frequent and spontaneous development of interests in spiritualism and the environment, seemed at odds with the idea of aliens using them as guinea pigs. I am the first to admit that my belief that the phenomenon is part of a campaign to civilise us is only one more theory to join the ranks of competing ideas. The distress experienced by some abductees has been sobering and has acted as a brake on the idea that my theory may represent some sort of New Age interpretation of the phenomenon. It would be nice to think that the motivation behind abductions is to prepare humans for entry into some sort of galactic network, but if this were so, why aren't the extraterrestrials open with us? The covert nature of what is going on suggests that any alterations being made to our behaviour are done for the benefit of the abductors, not for us - perhaps to remove the threat we may pose to them. This phenomenon needs serious investigation. The real crime against humanity may not be that inflicted upon us by extraterrestrials, but rather the official indifference that allows the phenomenon to continue unchallenged. Today and tomorrow I will be revealing the most convincing - and startling - cases I have investigated. Maria's Story Childhood recollections of 'going somewhere' when 'the Moon landed in garden' came back to haunt Maria Ward after the birth of her son, Andras, when she was 19. Doctors said she would not be able to have more children because a previous laparoscopy had left adhesions in her womb. A closer examination revealed a strange scar on her navel, consistent with keyhole surgery. The doctors wanted to know about the operation. Maria was shocked and frightened. Apart from the removal of a cyst from her ear, she had never had surgery before. Maria, now 36, from Dartford, Kent, did her best to forget this mystery. She got on with family life and started a five year degree in philosophy. Then, on November 21, 1990, Maria's husband, John, went away on a training course for a few days. Maria was apprehensive. For the previous two weeks there had been a series of mysterious, electronic beeping sounds in the house. That night, at exactly 3.17am, she suddenly woke up as if someone had shaken her and noticed a bright light outside. She saw an object which appeared to be shaped like a gigantic wheel, complete with spokes, and an outer rim festooned with multi-coloured lights of blue, white and red, which seemed to be rotating around the rim. At the hub of this wheel was a bright white light. The object moved closer, and she panicked. She was afraid for Andras, who was sleeping in the room with Maria (a special treat whenever John was away). She tried to rouse him, but, mysteriously, he would not wake up. Suddenly, a blue/white light the size and shape of a football began to come through the bedroom wall. Maria heard a voice telling her not to be frightened and to follow the light. She did, as if under some kind of compulsion, and was somehow lead through the closed front door. She describes the process as being like 'moving through treacle', and recalls that she was aware of the internal structure of the wood - the splinters, gaps and knots. Once outside she was pulled quickly upwards into the air, catching sight of a tennis ball in a gutter on the house. Weeks later, she pinpointed its exact location. MARIA was suddenly aware that she had stopped moving and was standing on something solid. She saw three small, brown creatures in front of her. They were up to 4ft tall, naked with hairless smooth skin and had large eyes. Somehow, Maria knew they were male, although no genitalia were visible. She was taken into a room with a domed ceiling. In the centre was a raised, rectangular platform. Five creature's were with her and then another arrived and stood in front of her. This one, physically, was markedly different. Taller and a dirty white in colour, its face was slightly fuller, and there was a small bump which might have been a nose and a slit where a mouth might have been. Once Maria looked into its large black eyes, she could not look away. The being communicated a thought to her: 'Has it been so long.' Not a question, but a statement. Maria found herself lying oh the platform and felt her thoughts being 'pulled' out of her head. 'It was like someone was raping my mind,' she told me. One of the creatures produced a lime-green device about a foot long and triangular in shape with a bright green light at its tip. She was prodded with it. Everywhere it touched her, bruises would later appear on her body. When it touched her arm, she was able to see the blood flowing inside her, and even her bone structure. Something was stuck into her finger and, though the skin was not broken, a tiny circle of red dots was visible for eight weeks after, she claimed. A block descended from the ceiling and stopped just above her, bathing her with a blue/white light. Then one of the creatures inserted a long filament into her neck just below her right ear, causing terrible pain. The tall alien touched her forehead and stared into her eyes. The pain Evaporated. It was as if she had been anaesthetised. Maria glanced downwards and, to her horror saw something moving inside her stomach. There was a sharp pull at her navel, and then the sound of things being put in some sort of tray, somewhere at the foot of the platform, out of sight. At another stage in the procedure, something was. placed up her nose. Finally, all the beings left, apart from one of the brown ones. Maria was now able to move. Realising that she was naked, she put on her baggy T-shirt, which was lying beside her, neatly folded. She had no recollection of how or when it had been removed. Minutes later, another of the taller beings had somehow appeared in the room. Maria instinctively knew this was a female, before she noticed that the creature was wearinig what she could describe only as a crude, paper dress as if for show. The being stared at Maria, who felt the scrutiny to be uncomfortable and intrusive. She went through a complete range of emotions, which she felt were being deliberately induced. These images were flashed in front of her, some of them apocalyptic and distressing. One showed the Earth, as if from space, with what appeared to be a horrendous yellow and black bruise over the North Pole. Could this have a warning about the hole in the ozone layer? Another image was of a nuclear explosion in the South of France. Finally, as a wave of tiredness swept over her, she was led out of the room. The next thing Maria knew, she was walking up the stairs in her house back to bed. She glanced at the clock. It was 4.23am. When she awoke she did not remember anything. But, while brushing her hair, she noticed that quite a lot of it was missing from the back of her head. There were further revelations: her T-shirt was covered with a strange orange material and her feet were dirty. She felt as if she were in shock. Over the next few weeks, memories came back in disjointed fragments. And she suddenly began to suffer claustrophobia, which became so debilitating that she consulted her doctor. He felt she was suffering from traumatic stress, stemming from some intense, unpleasant experience. When his questions failed to find any obvious cause, the doctor suggested Maria undergo hypnosis to relax her. A hypnotherapist, Dr Susan Winne, suggested that Maria be regressed. But instead of a 'conventional' cause being discovered, Maria recounted the story of the abduction. Maria also spontaneously regressed to when, at 16, she had apparently been sealed in a perspex capsule which floated above the ground and filled with a gelatinous pink liquid. Dr Winne would not continue the session, saying that she was simply not able to evaluate Maria's account. It is important to stress that this was the only regression session Maria has undergone. Once these memories surfaced, the rest began to emerge unaided. What are we to make of Maria? The sceptics might simply say she is lying, but she has passed two polygraph 'lie-detector' tests administered by a qualified expert, Jeremy Barrett. Abridged extract from 'The Uninvited' by Nick Pope, to be published by Simon & Schuster on June 2, at 15 pounds and 99 pence. To order your copy p&p free, please call 01624 675137 The essential features of an extra-terrestrial DAVID E JACOBS is a historian who has analysed the stories of more than 60 abductees. The abductees did not know each other and had not heard of each others' experiences. Yet, under hypnosis, the alien figures they described were so alike that Jacobs could set down common denominators and describe the essential features of an extraterrestrial. They occur so frequently, and are so stereotyped, that they have even been given a name: psychologists call them the 'Greys'. # A GREY 15 3.5ft to 4.5ft tall, with a disproportionately large head, # like a pear upside down. THEY are hairless, have leathery skin, only # the smallest protuberance for a nose and lipless mouths that do not # move. THEY communicate by telepathy. THE most striking feature is # the eyes: black, enormous, almond-shaped, compelling. They do not # blink, nor do they move in their sockets. They are like goggles. # Yet, staring into them, they seem to have enormous power - to # communicate, to reassure or to frighten. GREYS are usually naked. # but no genitals are seen. The chest does not swell as they breathe. # THESE beings are frail, with thin limbs and no bone structure or # musculature. They have three fingers, with no opposable thumb. A second type is also reported: the Nordic. It is humanoid, taller and has blond hair. Americans see 12 Greys to every one Nordic. In Europe, though, the Nordics outnumber the Greys. Some abductees feel that the Nordics are female. One woman even reported that a Nordic had tried on her high-heeled shoes. That is either evidence of derangement or it is a detail that no one could possibly have made up. One bizarre detail: to Britons, Greys smell of cinnamon or rotting leaves; in America, the scent is of ammonia, sulphur, lemons and almonds. The bobbv snatehed from his beat One of the most famous abduction cases in Britain happened on November 28,1980, and involved a police constable based in the Yorkshire town of Todmorden. Alan Godfrey was nearing the end of his night shift when be was ordered to investigate reports that some cows had escaped from a farmer's field and were getting into private gardens. Godfrey drove towards the area end, as be rounded a bend, saw what he at first took to be a bus in the road. On closer Inspection, he saw it was a diamond shaped object hovering 5ft above the ground. Godfrey attempted to contact his headquarters, but his radio would not function properly. He decided to sketch the object in his notebook and after having done so found himself suddenly and mysteriously about 100 yards further down the road. The UFO had vanished. He returned to the police station, picked up a colleague and went back to the site of his encounter. They noticed that the road was much drier at the point where Godfrey had seen the craft, What puzzled him was that, when he had returned to the police station, it bad been much later then he thought. Under hypnosis, an abduction story emerged. Apparently, Godfrey had got out of the car for a better look at the object, but had suddenly seen a bright light emanating from the craft. He had been frightened and had tried to drive off, only to find that his car would not start. Recalling being inside the craft, he felt he was being restrained. He saw a tall, bearded humanoid figure called Joseph, together with smaller creatures who Joseph said were robots. Godfrey even described seeing a dog on the craft. He said that he was placed on a table, but, despite recollections of a bright light and some sort of machinery, was unable to remember any further details. Alfred the fisherman was not a prize catch ON AUGUST 12, 1983, Alfred Burtoo was night-fishing on the Basingstoke Canal near Aldershot, Hampshire, when he saw a bright light approaching. His dog growled and then Alfred saw two entities walking towards him. They were about 4ft tall, dressed in green one-piece overalls, with their heads covered by a sort of helmet. They beckoned to him to follow them, which he did. Then, on the towpath, he encountered a UFO on the ground and followed the beings aboard. After some time inside, during which Burtoo had been observing his surroundings, he was told to stand under a light. He was asked his age, and told them he was 77. To his disappointment, he was told that he was too old for their purposes. He then left the craft, heard a whining noise and saw the craft fly away at high speed. Incredibly, he calmly picked up his equipment and carried on fishing. Burtoo died in 1986, never once having changed his story. Baffled by a strange gap in time AN IMPORTANT British case occurred near Aveley in Essex in 1974. John and Susan Day, with their three children, were returning from a relative's house when they saw a blue light following them. A little later, their car radio began to malfunction and gave off smoke. As the car negotiated a bend, it entered a patch of strange green mist and was jolted. When the vehicle emerged from the mist, the family found they were much further down the road. Arriving home, they turned on their television and were amazed to find that the evening's programmes had finished. They had lost several hours. Under hypnosis, the Days recalled being taken onto a craft and subjected to medical investigations. The aliens they recalled were tall humanoids, which ufologists label Nordics. ON DECEMBER 1,1987, a former policeman. Philip Spencer, was walking on Ilkley Moor in Yorkshire. He heard a low humming sound and then saw a strange creature. He took a photograph of it and followed it to a UFO which seemed to consist of two saucers joined together. The entity got into the craft, which accelerated away at high speed. When Spencer returned home, he found he had lost two hours and, during a hypnotic regression, recalled being taken into the craft by creatures with pointed ears. As a number of other abductees have reported, he was then shown a film which contained apocalyptic images. He was also shown a second film, the contents of which he was told not to reveal. More in the next issue of UK.UFO.NW [UK 6]****** Source: Electronic Times Date: 20th May 1997 Quicker-thinking computer tackles birth of universe BY JOHN SHAW A SUPER computer at Cambridge University could finally unravel the secrets of the universe, from its creation to the present day. The stlg2 million Cosmos, which was unveiled yesterday, will test scientific theories against practical observations. Stephen Hawking, principal investigator of the consortium that took the computer to Cambridge, said: "The calculations involved are so enormous that they require state of the art machinery." Cosmos thinks 100 times faster than the latest Pentium Pro personal computer and has 32 high performance R10000 processors and 8,000 megabytes of main memory. It is the largest Origin2000 computer in Britain. Although it is based at the university, it is owned and run by the UK Computational Cosmology Consortium. The inter-disciplinary team working with the machine includes particle cosmologists and astrophysicists. Its members come from Cardiff, Durham, Oxford, Sussex and London Universities, Imperial College and the Royal Observatory, Edinburgh. "The inter-disciplinary nature of this team is one of the great strengths of this work," said Alex Broers, vice-chancellor of the university, at the launch ceremony in Cambridge. Paul Shellard, director of the new facility, said: "Our mission is to push back our understanding of the first fractions of a second after the Big Bang, to unravel the enigmas and mysteries. "In recent years interest in cosmology has exploded, driven in part by novel theoretical ideas connecting the formation of galaxies in our universe with fundamental high-energy theory and relativity. "Many of these ideas about the early universe were first proposed in this country and on Cosmos their mathematical models can now be realised and directly compared with a rapidly growing body of observational data about the universe. We can get results in days instead of waiting months or even years." Professor Hawking, whose book A Brief History of Time has sold eight million copies, initiated the partnership that took the computer to Cambridge during a visit to the headquarters of Silicon Graphics, which created the machine, at the company's headquarters in California. Money for Cosmos came from a variety of sources, including the Higher Education Funding Council for England and the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council. Britain is a world leader in cosmology and members of the consortium said the super computer would help to maintain that advantage into the next century. At present there are two theories about the growth of the universe: the inflation theory of rapid expansion after the Big Bang and the defect theory that the universe evolved in a phased transition, producing defects at certain points in its development. Professor Hawking told a lecture later: "My money is on inflation, but we shall have to wait and see. It is such an elegant solution I am sure God would have chosen it." The defect theory has been developed by Neil Turok, a colleague at Cambridge. But he said the simplest version of this explanation was incompatible with initial data produced by the computer based on satellite and telescopic observations. However, he said: "I am still encouraged, because it is progress even if this is ruled out. There are variations on these theories so it's really a mixed picture at the moment." He said the findings would be reported at conferences in the next two months and would also be published in the specialist magazine Physical Review. He said technical advances and the flow of information "have made us convinced we are on the verge of a golden age in cosmology. "We want to crack the code of the universe," he said. "We want to be the Watson and Crick of cosmology." James D Watson and Francis Crick were two young scientists who solved the riddle of DNA while working at Cambridge in 1953. Their laboratory was half a mile from the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics that houses Cosmos. [UK 7]****** Source: Various UFO newsgroups From: byrlip@enterprise.net (Adam Whaley) Organisation: The West Wales Paranormal Group Date: Friday 23rd May 1997 Wales Flying Triangle Update Summary Report of the UFO Sightings in Mid and West Wales, 21st Nov 1996, as reported to the West Wales Paranormal Group. Introduction The following is a report into unusual atmospheric and aerial phenomena which was observed in Mid and West Wales on the evening of 21st November 1996 The phenomenon is popularly known as The Flying Triangle - a type of UFO which has been sighted elsewhere in Wales as well as many countries throughout the world since the early 1980's. Our sources have included signed witness reports and personal interviews with witnesses. We have found no evidence of collusion in these reports, most witnesses were totally amazed at the quantity of corroborative evidence gathered for this report. We have omitted the names of witnesses to respect their privacy but many have readily agreed to subsequent investigation by other bona fide researchers. Please contact us for further details. We would like to express out thanks to everyone who contacted us in regard to these events and to those public services who patiently answered our enquiries - even if it was only to say that they knew nothing about the events. We'd also like to express our thanks for the journalists and staff on the local newspapers who printed the initial stories and helped in our enquiries, without whom this report would have been less comprehensive. We look forward to the day when such reports can be published without ridiculous and sensationalist headlines and without the ludicrous "explanations" by so-called 'experts' that inevitably follow in subsequent issues!. We would also like to thank the staff at the Ministry of Defence, but unfortunately the standard response we received from them proved to be of little assistance. It seems inconceivable that the RAF were unaware of this craft as it flew around Mid and West Wales for several hours - or if they weren't then they simply are not doing their job properly. It seems probable that they are instructed to stay well clear of these craft, possibly due to the electro-magnetic discharges. It is also possible that the craft operates at night and at such low altitude us to avoid collisions with civil aircraft. The MoD response therefore can be seen to be correct only if they have prior knowledge of these otherwise unidentified craft - however they have said elsewhere that they do not operate an aircraft recognition service and therefore feel under no obligation to identify "UFO"s even if they could. Perhaps such obstructionism is part of the "deal"? We'd also like to thank everyone who has attended meetings of the West Wales Paranormal Group at New Quay, Aberaeron and Lampeter, some of whose experiences are recorded here. We also hope to be able to publish all our other UFO sightings from 1996, together with those from earlier years that have recently been made known to us. We would like to make it clear that although this evening's sightings were unusual in their number, that we do not consider the area to have been especially favoured in the quantity of sightings - the East Midlands have seen a large number of them - and the Belgian sightings from the early 1990's involved thousands of witnesses. We would also like to point out that we would initially pursue a rational and terrestrial explanation for this Flying Triangle phenomena (and UFO's in general) and would not suggest an extra-terrestrial explanation without some positive evidence for it. If you have any information regarding these sightings or any other interesting "paranormal" phenomena (especially on the 21st Nov 1996), then please email us at: byrlip@enterprise.net. Sightings Swansea Area 4.10 pm. Witnesses saw a large elliptical shape craft, with tailfin, pass through the air at approx 2,000 ft moving in a N/NE direction over Swansea. The object was travelling at normal jet speed and had a white smoke trail behind it. The object glowed white and was not clearly defined around the edges. It was brighter than the moon when it passed in front of it. Weather was reasonably clear, with the sun setting in the west. There were several witnesses, one of whom viewed the object through binoculars, and stated that no wings were visible on the craft. Size unknown. No positive identification forthcoming but it was possibly a normal airliner dazzling in the setting sunlight? Cardigan Area 6.00 - 6.30 pm. Three witnesses were driving in their car from Dinas to Cardigan, near Eglyswrw, in a NE direction. What sounded like two aerial objects with flashing red and green lights flew low and slow over the car. The Shape(s) was uncertain but the lights were described as being "Christmas Tree" like. When the craft/s was passing over the car it emitted a loud noise "a bit like a jet". No positive identification was forthcoming but it could just possibly be the two Hercules transport planes seen near New Quay although the times the sightings are inconsistent. 7.30 pm. Two witnesses in a car saw a low flying triangular shaped craft flying S/SE from Cardigan Bay coast over Mwnt and Penparc, between Cardigan and Aberporth. Initially they just saw flashing blue and red lights in the sky but as the craft passed over their car they could clearly make out the triangular shape. As the craft flew further on it glowed yellow and then suddenly "shot off, like a bullet towards the Preseli hills" (S/SW direction.) A few minutes later the craft then returned (witnesses presumption) and hovered over the car before disappearing extremely quickly once again. N.B. a possibility of two separate craft must now be considered in view of this and other witnesses accounts and the correspondences as stated. 8.45 pm. The second witness initially heard a loud rumbling noise and thought it was an aircraft flying extremely low - perhaps about to crash. The witness ran into the back garden which is in village of Penparc. She looked up to see a large triangular shaped craft flying slowly overhead. The craft was described as having rounded corners, black underneath and having grey sides. It was surrounded in an orange glow which clearly silhouetted the craft. There were red and blue lights in the tips, with a secondary flashing light following (i.e. detached) from the craft. A fairly clear description of the Flying Triangle "UFO". 8.50 - 9.20 pm. A driver initially saw a bright flashing orange/yellow light seawards off the Cardigan to Penparc road on way home. On arriving at home in Penparc his family watched the flashes for a while. They seemed to be every 5 minutes or so. No sound was heard. No positive identification was possible. The witnesses said the flashes were definitely not lightning. No storms were reported in the area. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:58:02 -0400
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:22:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:58:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved >I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out shortly >and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it wasn't Mogul. It was >a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers designed lifting body into the >sky that could be cut lose to guide to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) Kevin, Say it AIN'T so!.....laughing.....They FINALLY have come CLEAN with us all, huh.... Just gotta love the Air Force......Keep changing the story.....probably figure that those who don't believe the Weather Balloon will buy the Mogul Array...and those that don't believe that will buy the FUGO balloon.....In another six months or so we'll have another half dozen stories....PICK the one you believe in and go away and leave the Air Force alone to get on with it's business. In any case, keep us posted on this "NEW" development.....should keep a BUNCH of folks busy trying to dis-prove THIS new theory. Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 'stinguished New Subscriber From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:27:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:27:10 -0400 Subject: 'stinguished New Subscriber Greetings, It's a pleasure to welcome Jerome Clark, editor of IUR, and writer/editor of the splendid three-volume 'UFO Encyclopedia' to the List. I trust that Jerry didn't find his first day of receiving posts too overwhelming - it's been a busy 24 hours.<G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: New Roswell Explanation From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:56:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:53:33 -0400 Subject: Re: New Roswell Explanation > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 13:21:55 -0700 > Subject: New Roswell Explanation > To: updates@globalserve.net > NEW ROSWELL EXPLANATION > RUMOR LINE FROM THE EAST COAST ----- (JUST A RUMOR) > The Air Force is coming out with a new report revealing that the crash at > Roswell in 1947 was the debris from a test of a glider hanging from a > Japanese FUGO Balloon. The glider held 2 Japanese engineers whose bodies > were found bloated in the sun! > If this is true, the MOGUL BALLOON which did not pass the disinformation > test will be replaced now with a FUGO Balloon and Glider assembly. > Better get your money back from buying Kal Korff's new Roswell book, and > boy will Charles B. Moore be miffed. > Let's see now. Timeline: > 1947 - weather balloon with rawin sonde crashes north of Roswell > 1995-6 - TS Mogul balloon crashes with train > 1997 - TS test of Fugo balloon with glider crashes; bodies are Japanese; > hieroglyphic writing is Japanese > Whew! Still don't have to worry about aliens or spaceships... > Bill Hamilton > Executive Director > SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Hi Bill and List, In light of your new rumour and the "Cry Wolf" syndrome (where the civil side won't believe anything the Gov't or AF tells them anymore) I had a thought. The USAF should start a rumor, then float a trial balloon, stating that in July of '47 a vehicle of extraterrestrial origins crashed in the New Mexico desert near Roswell with the resultant deaths of several aliens and one that survived. It would be interesting reading to see the UFO community supporting the U.S. Airforce for a change and the debunkers tearing the USAF apart. Some interesting headlines would be: CIVILIAN UFO RESEARCHERS OUTRAGED OVER AIRFORCE CLAIMS OF CRASHED EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT IN NM DESERT IN'47. CIVILAIN AGENCIES TAKE A.F.TO TASK OVER FAKING FOOTAGE OF TREMONTON,UTAH UFO FILM. AIRFORCE CALLS FOR SENATE COMMITTEE HEARINGS IN ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE CIVILIAN UFO RESEARCHERS THAT UFOS ARE REAL. CIVILIAN UFO ANGENCIES ATTEMPTS TO PROVE BROOKLYN BRIDGE SIGHTINGS FALSE PROVE FUTILE AFTER GOVERNMENT AGENCY INTERVENTION. Spokesman for NSA says this happened and no civilian organization is going to convince him otherwise. Calls for complete disclosure of civilian secret files. Says civilian agencies should come clean, once and for all and release proof of alien existence. AIRFORCE PERSONNEL REVEAL HORROR STORIES OF MEN IN DENIM (MIDs) SHOWING UP AT THEIR BASE AND DEMANDING PHOTOS AND FILES WHICH WHEN ASKED TO BE RETURNED FROM CIVIL AGENCIES DENY THE EXISTANCE OF SUCH PERSONS. Spokesman says base staff moral low due to constant intervention of MIDs in their daily lives. General at wits end from costant harrasment. GOVERNMENT AND AIRFORCE ATTEMPTS TO GENERATE INTEREST IN 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF ROSWELL CRASH IN ROSWELL, A LITTLE KNOW NUCLEAR BOMBER BASE IN NEW MEXICO, HAVE FALLEN FLAT. CIVILIAN UFO AGENCIES BERATE GOV'T FOR WASTING TAXPAYERS MONEY. AREA 51 CLOSES. 5000 EMPLOYEES THROWN OUT OF WORK DUE TO GOV'T FAILURE TO INTEREST CIVILIAN AGENCIES IN BACK ENGINEERING ALIEN TECHNOLOGY. CIVILIAN DEBUNKERS CLAIM TAXES BETTER SPENT ON IRRITABLE BOWEL SYNDROME AND ANAL RETENTIVENESS. Geez... you know there might be a book in there. My apologies to anyone that takes the foregoing the wrong (or right ) way. Don Ledger
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 New Roswell Explanation - follow-up From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Fri, 06 Jun 97 10:35:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:59:25 -0400 Subject: New Roswell Explanation - follow-up Dear Roswell fans, Here it is believe it or not: NEW ROSWELL REPORT CASE SOLVED? Well known investigator Joe Stefula reports the Air Force is coming out with another version of the 1947 Roswell alien crash. The new book being released from the Government Printing Office is called, "Roswell Report Case Solved" and is authored by Captain Jim Mc Andrew, ISBN 99791156. Jim after the diligent searching of hundreds of thousands of documents has apparently found fifty year old records that point to the real cause of the crash. Joe has obtained information that an article will be published in the July Popular Mechanics Magazine, that provides the final Air Force explanation. Our government has always denied that an extraterrestrial crash occurred at Roswell. They claim our biggest concern at the beginning of the Cold War was to determine if the Soviet Union had the atomic bomb. Key scientists from the US, Japan and Germany were brought in to develop a new reconnaissance system. Allegedly new and improved Japanese Fugo balloons were designed using advanced materials. Horton a German engineer developed a special lifting body design for a long range experimental glider that was carried aloft by the Fugo balloon. This craft was probably a rounded triangular design or heal shaped lifting body. The glider or lifting body was carried aloft by the balloon and fitted with cameras and instruments to detect nuclear explosions. This recce unit would float over the Soviet Union gathering information. At a key point near friendly territory, the pilot would release his experimental glider aircraft from the balloon and fly to safety with its precious cargo. New and light weight metals were used that may have included foreign markings. If a small Japanese pilot was involved in the crash, we may have a plausible explanation for the description of an alien body. Note: We've long suspected government secrecy has been hiding disc and lifting body technology. Our Roswell witnesses had always maintained they saw a large field full of crash debris with the military police roping off hot areas of radiation. If the large crash site testimony is accepted, the previous Air Force Mogul Balloon explanation by itself did not hold up under scrutiny. The new explanation fits much closer to eye witness testimony. In early 1996, I sent out a report, indicating the most likely cause of all the secrecy was the crash of an experimental aircraft and that a Mogul balloon might also have been found. Our information as pointed to different alien crash site to the Northwest. Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan ---------- TO LEAVE THE LIST, send a message to: majordomo@primenet.com with the one line message of: unsubscribe in_search_of <---- End Forwarded Message ----> Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:54:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:05:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' Regarding... >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved Kevin wrote: >I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out >shortly and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it >wasn't Mogul. It was a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers >designed lifting body into the sky that could be cut lose to guide >to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) Kevin, Joe Stefula mentioned this a couple of says ago over on CompuServe. According to Joe, McAndrew isn't commenting on the book/report, but someone who claims to have been briefed on the contents gave Joe the details. As you say, the source of the debris was allegedly a balloon based on the Japanese "Fugo" and which carried a manned Horten brothers' designed "heel-shaped" glider. Presumably the glider was suspended beneath the balloon. The intention was to use the balloon for secret reconnaissance missions over Russia. When the mission was complete, the glider would be released and carry the crew to safety [looking up my copy of "Air Endurance Records"]. Supposedly, a test craft with a Japanese crew crashed near Roswell, the balloon landing at a separate location from the manned glider. Joe also mentions that the glider was "stealthy" with "grooves and cross-cuts on the underside to deflect radar beams". The publication details have also been reported as "The Roswell Report : Case Solved" by James McAndrew Published by Government Printing Office ISBN: 9997911156 The story is that it will be released to coincide with Corso's book and will be backed up with documents. I should think that would be a minimum requirement for such extraordinary claims. It sounds ludicrous on almost every front, but without the hard facts, we can obviously only speculate for the moment. I wonder if this is also the rumoured report citing "charred monkeys". If the crew were supposed to be in the glider, maybe the monkeys were trained to navigate the balloon! James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 CSETI - 'Nugget'? From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 97 14:18:43 pst Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:09:43 -0400 Subject: CSETI - 'Nugget'? Hiya, Since we're all chatting about CSETI lately, I thought I would share a little exchange I had with their webmaster. I took a look at the CSETI web page about a month ago, hoping to find some relevant information on their organization, D.C. breifings, etc. If you are familiar with 'em you know that they have an extensive area on their web page that describes member's efforts to "vector in" UFO/ETs and decriptions of blobs of light in the skies, etc. Well, call me old fashioned, but sitting on your porch with a glass of wine counting airplanes is not helping their credibility (IMHO, of course). So, I wrote a short e-mail to their web master asking why the are no photos, no movies, no corroborating reports from local media, no nothing. I don't think this is too much to ask, considering their claims! Anyway, the web master wrote back a one sentence reply saying that they are short-staffed and don't have the resources for that. He then proceeed to write a long paragraph inviting me to join their organization ($)! Now, I ask you, if dozens of "field agents" are actually vectoring in real- life UFOs on a regular basis, wouldn't you expect at least a few of these folks to take a camera or video recorder with them? Where's the proof? (Proof is not a bad word!) By the way, what does CSETI do with all of the membership money they receive? Maybe there's a few CSETI members on this list that could reply? I guess it seems to me that CSETI is long on rhetoric and short on information. Thanks! M. Davis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:27:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:03:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:20:28 -0400 >From: "J. Washington" <skyeking@aye.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> >> Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > >> Hi all, > >> I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" >> by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book >> and the Gulf Breeze sightings in general? >Yeah, JJ I do. Some of Ed's photos look suspicious, and his veracity has >been debated for some time. The discovery of a scale model of one of the >UFOs that he allegedly photographed didn't help. In fairness when mentioning the model controversy, one should mention Walters' defense. The issue is only tangentally touched on in "UFOs are Real" but is discussed more in one of Ed's previous books. (Has anyone on the list independently investigated the model business and Ed's defense?) According to Ed, the model was found by the new owner of Ed's old house after a period of ten months when the house was empty and open to the public. Also according to Ed, the new owner got a visit from a reporter asking if he had found a model *before* the model was found. The reporter denies receiving a tip, but declined to take a polygraph test. The model was made with blueprints from Walters work, but contained identifiable material, and the client who commisioned the work dated the plans to late '89, while the photos in question were in '87 and '88 (Ed did reprint the text of a letter from his client to establish this). Also, the model does not exactly match any in any of Ed's photos (missing details and different dimensions, although it is very similar.) -- Geoff Price Geoff@CalibanMW.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:19:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:00:41 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 6/5/97 6:38 PM: > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 08:39:43 -0700 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CSETI 'Witness' - David Adair > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:24:15 -0700 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> > Subject: David Adair (CSETI witness) > 2) He actually obtained the money and built a "fusion containment" engine > in 1971 at the age of 17!(Born in 1954 and is now 43) That he did work out > equations on a board that were similar to those of Steven Hawking and met > with > Steven who told him that some of this math came to him (SH) in dreams as > well. There are no fusion engines now, and there were none in 1971. So far, fusion reactions on the order of seconds get scientists excited, and there's a lot more engineering than "math" involved. Multi-million dollar projects are the norm in that field, so it seems pretty improbable that a 17 year old would obtain such money as a grant. At what university does he claim this device was built? Who worked on it as project engineer? What firm did the construction? What journal published his research paper on this? Whose prior work was the basis for this "engine"? What work has he done since and where was it published? > 3) That, at the age of 17, he was allowed to ignite and fly this fusion > rocket > from White Sands Missile Range in NM aimed at Area 51 in Nevada. That it > worked > the first time without prior testing. See above. There are no fusion engines, therefore there are no fusion rockets. Fusion reactions even of the order currently generated require enormous machines with enormous electrical energy to generate the containment, and massive particle accelerators or laser systems to cause the fusion reaction to occur. Such systems are far to heavy to fly. One should smell a rat with the "it worked the first time without prior testing". That's highly unlikely with a piece of software, and even more unlikely with a piece of emergent engineering. > That a famous rocket scientist > (...Rudolph) attended this momentous rocket test. That 9 Men-In-Black > disembarked from a Black Airplane and flew him to Area 51 and that, once > there, > he entered the secure underground facility through a hangar where they took > him to a special room to see an advanced Ferrari model of his fusion engine > evidently manufactured by an alien culture! How can one determine that an artifact is created by an alien culture? First it would need to use principles incomprehensible to us, not be "an advanced Ferrari model of his fusion engine", and it would need to be made of unknown materials or materials with an unusual isotopic balance (which would require something like mass spectroscopy to determine - it doesn't sound like he used any methods to determine "alien" origin). > David is an intelligent, entertaining speaker, but these, like other claims > that > have come before, are extraordinary claims and either David's credibility > needs > immediate support or we have just another anecdotal story. His story doesn't sound very credible. Unfortunately, it sounds about as credible as the material at the CSETI website, and puts another nail in the coffin ofgetting Congress interested in UFOlogy as a serious discipline. In fact, the story sounds like the usual crank material: The "witness" claims to have invented a revolutionary machine using math from a dream. He met and spoke intimately with famous people who agreed that what he had done was revolutionary. His work was so important that it came to the attention of high government officials, who needed his help to figure out an alien power plant based on (surprise) the same revolutionary principles that came to him in his dream. But, somehow, no one else (except Stephen Greer) ever heard of him. His machine has vanished from the face of the earth in the intervening 26 years. I suspect it will be found he has done no work in the field leading up to 1971 and none since. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 6 Re: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:32:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 20:24:32 -0700 From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:31:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:26:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze On June 6, 1997, Bruce Widaman wrote: > Where's the proof of this investigator? Talk is cheap. I've met Ed >Walters and I think he's telling the truth. Dr.Bruce Maccabee is a friend >of mine and I'll back him up anytime. B.Widaman The person who has the evidence has contacted FUFOR, MUFON & CUFOS. I'm not sure who will get the report first. As I said yesterday, at least wait until you read the report. Kevin Randle's book, "UFOs In The 90's", covers many subjects and updates us all on key or prominent cases. I don't agree with everything, but the book is pretty accurate. The conventional wisdom on the Walters is not going to be well-acccepted by many readers. Francis Ridge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Greer's 'Antics' From: Robert Swiatek <swiman@POP.DN.NET> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:40:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:25:11 -0400 Subject: Greer's 'Antics' List Members-- The following was placed on the Fund's web site on 6 June 1997 (D-Day Anniversary, incidentally): --Greer/CSETI Confronted -- Dr. Steven Greer, M.D., leader of CSETI (the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has improperly published and distributed scores of copies of a preliminary draft of the BEST AVAILABLE EVIDENCE briefing document. He knew it was original material of the UFO Research Coalition which was protected by copyright law against unauthorized reproduction. His claim that his version of the document was not copyrighted is pointless, since all drafts of a copyrighted work are automatically protected by copyright law. His claim that he was told that none of the versions would be copyrighted is without basis. Greer removed the original cover of the document and substituted one of his own that states that he and the CSETI "Starlight Team" are responsible for the "concept, title, strategy and case selection." In reality, neither Greer nor CSETI had any involvement at any stage in the preparation of the genuine document. Greer's pirated version of the document retained the name of the true author -- Don Berliner -- to avoid accusations of plagiarism. Berliner states emphatically that he received no input from Greer or any of his associates at any stage of the planning and writing of the document. In particular, Greer's claim that his "Starlight Team" (whatever that is!) selected the cases summarized in the document is completely empty, as Berliner insists he, alone, chose the cases for the document. And he finds the implication that he worked with Greer and CSETI to be highly insulting, and damaging to his reputation as a professional writer. While Greer publicly tries to give the impression that he is a moderate, logical spokesman for the UFO field, a careful reading of his own writings makes it clear that he actually represents the most extreme faction of the private UFO community. He claims to be a scientist and a researcher, but has never presented any evidence to back up either claim. The following statements from his 1994 CSETI Briefing Document (no relation to the document in question), strongly suggest that Greer thinks he is in direct and extensive communication with aliens. How else could he have "learned" the following? "More than one extraterrestrial civilization is represented in the current activities involving earth." "These extraterrestrial civilizations are working in concert and not competitively ... ." "These beings have bases within this solar system ...." "A Plan is in place to allow for gradually broader and deeper contact with human society ...." If Dr. Greer denies that he has learned all of this directly from aliens, how does he explain the content of these quotes from his own writing? For an independent view of Greer, see "Alien Brothers, Come On Down!",in the September, 1994, issue of OUTSIDE, an outdoors magazine. For a xerox copy of the article by Alex Heard, send a self-addressed, stamped 9" X 12" envelope and one dollar to the Fund for UFO Research, PO Box 277, Mt. Rainier, MD 20712. We leave it to the rational members of the private UFO community to draw their own conclusions. (FUFOR - 6/5/97)-- --Rob Swiatek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 DISPATCH #55 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:16:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:38:56 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #55 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #55 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 6/7/97 Quote of the Week "We certainly have put on a full-court press to try to retrieve these weapons, which are very dangerous weapons." -- FBI Director Louis Freeh describing the "dangerous weapons" that one of six FBI SWAT squads took to a training session in Memphis. The FBI's M-16 "assault rifles," grenade launchers and shotguns were stolen along with a vehicle from a hotel parking lot. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ CONTENTS: -rant of the week ("A Frog MystRE 4U2C!") -we ain't afraid of no ghosts -ParaScope to build tent city in Roswell -featured chat: how I learned to loathe the bomb -ParaScope featured on Sci-Fi channel's "Sightings" -get me off this damn mailing list -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "A Frog MystRE 4U2C!" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Phonetic Phil" sends us a special message in shorthand code about the mysteries of his dead frog. (That's righ, it croaked.) Enjoy! "Hi - I have never visited this site b4...interesting and rather comical, because my son had 2 frogs and over the past few weeks, we have noted the oddest things occurring. First of all, frog #1 was found dead in the tank, but he was standing in the tank looking out; head above water as if he was alive - which in fact he was, only an hour or so earlier. I took the frog along w/water sample 2 the pet shop, where i was told that the water's ammonia and nitrite levels were off the scale...however, the water was clean and treated, also, only hours b4...and the goldfish in the tank who r extremely vulnerable, were fine. But wait - there is more...then, frog #2, has been found OUT of the enclosed tank, TWICE. There is no way 4 him 2 escape -- he is a small leopard frog and the top of the tank is covered. ***Why this is of note*** I am what u likely refer 2 as an "abductee" altho i do not fancy the term. This has been so since infancy...and has come 2 include my son, who is now 14. So U C - we experience rather unusual events Here anyway...(well, not unusual 2 us)...but u understand. Also - in the downstairs tank which is also covered, we discovered our largest goldfish laying on the floor about four feet from the tank - (also enclosed); with no way 4 the fish 2 leap out. I happened across your frog article and it just made me wonder if something is going on here that invlolves the removal of these critters. There is no simple explanation 4 any of these occurrences - and there r no pranks occurring either. Just thought i would throw this out there 4 U...i never have sent a web message of any sort b4...i feel a bit awkward. Ah well - if nothing else - i suppose this may provide a few giggles at your end. Thanks 4 reading this." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ We Ain't Afraid of No Ghosts If you didn't stop by the Grassy Knoll this week, you missed an event unlike any ever held in cyberspace. Our 25 Hours in a Haunted Mansion was a raging success, with literally thousands of folks taking part in our online ghost-hunt. Congratulations and thanks to all the ParaScope remote staff members, chat hosts and regulars who made this event great, especially to PSCP Kokyan and PSCP Itus and the hosts who accompanied them all the way to New Orleans. A Big thank-you also to Larry Montz of "Hauntings Today" and the Southern Nights Writer's Bed, the most haunted house in New Orleans. If you missed the live haunt-hunt, don't dismay. We're furiously compiling all the information, logs and photos of the event and will soon have a comprehensive story up online so you can find out what you missed. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ParaScope to Build "Tent City" in Roswell Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the chat room, we remind you that we'll be descending en masse to Roswell, New Mexico to mark the 50th anniversary of the Roswell UFO crash. At current count, close to 80 ParaScope staffers and regulars will be on hand for the event, and we'll be cybercasting live from multiple locations throughout the Roswell area. Stock up on junk food and prepare to spend the 4th of July weekend in front of your computers as we present another ground-breaking online event. For details on the ParaScope Roswell Rendezvous, send e-mail to PSCPLegend@aol.com with "roswell" in your subject line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Featured Chat: How I Learned to Loathe the Bomb Duck and cover! Jump in that bomb shelter, man, because the Russkies could drop the big one on us at any time, without warning. No, it's not the height of the Cold War all over again, but would someone please tell that to the Pentagon? A recent report from the San Francisco Chronicle indicates that scientists are readying a series of controversial experiments including highly dangerous plutonium tests. Is the military-industrial complex conspiring to keep making and testing bombs we don't need, or do they know something they're not telling us? Join your hosts PSCPgunman and PSCPSphynx as we discuss the mystery behind ongoing nukes projects, this Sunday, June 8 starting at 11pm ET. Also, join us in the Crop Circle, ParaScope's web-based chat room every Saturday night at 9pm ET for great times and good conversation. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Just Another ParaScope "Sighting" ParaScope as an online entity can now almost join the ranks of Bigfoot, the Goatsucker and the Loch Ness Monster. Like all three, ParaScope is a strange, unexplained and misunderstood creature beloved and sighted by slightly "off-center" folks around the globe. But there remain those who deny our existence. Luckily, the Sci-Fi Channel's "Sightings" television show recently featured a segment on ParaScope, which surprised those of us here at Scope Headquarters because we don't get the Sci-Fi Channel, and seldom have time for TV anyway. If you caught the show (or happened to tape it), please drop us a line at parascope@aol.com so we can find out what "they" are saying about us "out there" in TV land. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | pscplegend |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:37:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:05:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:46:44 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO sighting! > All, > I just noticed this page in a book called UFO, by Charles E. > Sellier. It appears Charles B. Moore, the Project Mogul witness has a > UFO sighting. These random pages were put in the book to show examples > of UFO documents. It's pure luck that this was included! Attached image > below: Scott, This is pretty old news, Edward Ruppelt comments extensively on this sighting and that the General Mills ballonists nearly beat up on him when he questioned their conviction about what they had seen. The real issue to ask oneself is why has the sighting been deliberately ignored by the skeptics and debunkers who parade Moore to the front in support for the Mogul balloony? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:03:33 -0400 Subject: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved >I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out shortly >and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it wasn't Mogul. It >was a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers designed lifting body into >the sky that could be cut lose to guide to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) I hope your right, because that would be the best laugh I've had in a long time. I wonder what contortions of logic the debunkers would use to suddenly rationalize how that Mogul debris, including the infamous tape with flower patterns, suddenly doesn't explain the crash any more. And how did that radar target and weather balloon get in Ramey's office if it wasn't from Mogul? You don't suppose that Ramey swapped it for the real debris, just like that "liar" Marcel and senile old man Gen. Dubose said happened? And how is it that the Air Force lost their Fugo/Horten in the first place? Why didn't anybody go out looking for it. Why did it take a sheep rancher wandering into town before the Air Force had any idea where their Top Secret Project went to? >Supposedly the design was tested in the wind tunnels at Wright Field. And, >the Air Force supposedly used Frank Kaufmann's testimony as part of their >"proof" of this thing. >In fact, it sounds as if they are going to rely on the >unreliable testimony of the major Roswell witnesses. Yes, the comedic possibilities are endless. Maybe the title of their new report will be, "Roswell: Dumb and Dumber." Jim Carey could be cast in the role of Gen. Ramey for the new movie version. >I guess now we'll be told that their reports were accurate, >we just looked in the wrong place. I can't wait to see how >the media will deal with this. Now that I've composed myself again, my guess is that it will never happen. The media has dutifully gone along (like Mac Brazel's sheared sheep) with the Mogul nonsense right from the start. The Air Force would be shooting itself in the foot to come out with a completely new version now. It would raise too many embarrassing questions. Even the press isn't that stupid (then again, maybe they are). The Air Force would be wisest to let sleeping Moguls lie. >Let's see if we have it straight... In 1947, you said it was a weather >balloon, but you checked your records and found that you lied. It was >really a Project Mogul balloon which was nothing more than a weather >balloon. Now you've checked your records again, those very records >you had already checked and you have determined that it wasn't a >Mogul Balloon Array but this lifting body. Of course, that doesn't >explain the bodies... unless there were a number of Orientals in the >craft when it crashed outside of Roswell. Has this begun to stink of >massive cover up yet? Yes, but the debunking community is very adaptable and will use whatever rationalizations and self-delusions necessary to swallow the new, improved version. So will most of the press. These guys can't think their way out of a paper bag. >BTW: Frank Kaufmann predicted long ago that if it became to hot, the Air > Force would find "new" records with a new answer. I'll say one good thing for the Fugo balloon theory. The very tough parchment described by Marcel, which Brazel said was covered with Japanese or Chinese-like writing, did bear some resemblance to Fugo balloon material (though I think Marcel would easily have recognized the writing as Japanese). It obviously didn't come from the ridiculous fictional "parchment parachutes" of Mogul (they used small silk parachutes for the payload -- its marked on the diagrams). Of course, we still have no explanation for the rest of the materials, like the thin metal that couldn't be cut and returned to its original shape when crumpled. If you reread Charles Moores interview, you'll also notice that McAndrew asked him about two Fugo balloons that were supposedly delivered to Mogul. Moore said he knew nothing about it, and that the constant level balloons were of their own design. It's possible McAndrew was already preparing a backup position. What I don't understand is why the Air Force would bother to change their story. Like I said above, the press is too stupid and gutless to challenge their Mogul story. If they do come out with this remarkable change of story (I'd bet against it), it must be because they're getting a lot of pressure at the top, possibly even the White House. That would be a good sign. It means those that count didn't buy their first report and the Air Force was forced to change stories in order to stall for more time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:16:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Ahhh....William Broad again! > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net, CNINews1@aol.com > Subject: NEW York Times > June 5, 1997 > Thurmond Disputes Book on Purported Alien Spaceship > By WILLIAM J. BROAD >A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial >power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being >disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the >Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. Etc. In 1994 (I think), when the Air Force released its study purporting to show that a Mogul balloon crashed at Roswell, William J. Broad wrote a story about it for the New York Times. This story was curious in many ways. First, it existed! The Times has not exactly made a practice of covering UFOs. Second, it was on the front page. What made it that important, especially since, as I've said, the Times never covered any of the controversy leading up to the Air Force report. Of course, it could have been a slow news day. Before going further, I'd like to defuse any conspiracy-prone notions of Broad being some kind of designated hit man about UFOs. I'm sure he's a diehard UFO skeptic; his writing strongly suggests that. But the science writers on the Times surely have their specialties, and his may include UFOs. Or, since he'd covered the Air Force report in the first place, his editors naturally gave him another Roswell-related story to write. Newspapers will do that, simply for convenience. No conspiracies involved. However, that 1994 story really was peculiar. Granted, Broad may not believe in the Roswell crash. But his story might as well have been a press release for the Air Force. When, before or since, did the Times print what any of the armed forces told them, without checking into it and seeking other opinions? Broad forgot a basic journalist rule, which is that you always call the people with opposing views. His editors must have forgotten it, too. Broad mentioned various pro-Roswell books, but never offered a quote from, let's say, Kevin Randle or Stan Friedman. Nor did Broad question the Air Force. The report, even if you believed it, did raise a question or two. Where was the detailed flight information, showing that any known Mogul balloon COULD have crashed at Roswell? Where were the documents? Where was the memo from Washington, telling Col. Blanchard at the Roswell base to engineer the coverup because there was a Mogul secret to protect? We know now, thanks to the study by the General Accounting Office, that those documents were missing. Missing, I might add, along with many other documents from the time about other subjects, so there's no way to conclude that the documents are missing because of some kind of coverup. Still, Broad might have noticed a truly peculiar fact -- that the Air Force would release a report on something from its own history, and -- not finding ANY documents in its files that might shed light on the matter -- had to investigate essentially from the outside. A sharp reporter would have picked that up, and asked about it. So now we have Broad writing about this Strom Thurmond affair. Right from the first paragraph, he's out to lunch. To repeat the quote: >A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial >power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being >disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the >Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. I haven't read this book, but nothing I've heard makes me think Corso claims that most of American military and industrial power comes from an alien crash. Broad, I suspect, is exaggerating, to show his disdain for the subject. All this said, it's quite interesting that Thurmond would first supply the foreword, then repudiate his involvement. Maybe it's relevant here that the man is, what, 94 years old? The affair is very curious. You'd hardly expect anyone with a public reputation to write a foreword to a book without knowing what was in it. Nor would you expect a reputable publisher to secure what appears to amount to a character reference, and then use it, without the writer's knowledge, as a forword. Maybe Thurmond is just too old to comprehend what's going on. I suppose conspiricists will think he wrote the foreward because he endorsed the UFO stories in the book, and then got pressured to back off. But that makes no sense to me. Thurmond is well connected. You'd think he'd recognize that he was opening a can of worms in the first place -- in fact, that he was helping engineer the revelation to end all revelations. So if he was prepared to do that, wouldn't he think it through beforehand, and not back off when the heat was turned on? My guess is that he didn't know what he was getting into. Which is extraordinary in its own right! Somebody was really careless. Did his office really do such terrible staff work? I talked to Broad about his 1994 piece, by the way. I tried to interview him about the story, but he stonewalled me. The tone in his voice implied that he had no time at all for UFO nuts, among whom he may have ranked me. I asked him why the story had been on the front page, and he answered exactly what I've answered in situations like that, when for whatever reason I didn't want to reveal the full story. "Those decisions are made at a level far above me." Very true, but Broad doesn't get on the front page very often. That's a real coup for an inside-the-book writer, a science writer like Broad, or a music critic like myself. He'd be tickled to be there, and would probably have some inkling about how it happened. Very curious business, all of this.... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 22:34:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:07:01 -0400 Subject: Re: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:07:18 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. > SNIP < > Gary has kindly donated copies of all his research and all > his UFO files for use at the proposed Government UFO Document > Archives. > Best regards, > Jan Aldrich > Project 1947 Jan, Could you post some additional information on the project for the proposed Government UFO Document Archives to the list. Thanks, Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Iowa Sightings From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:28:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Iowa Sightings >Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 06:20:15 >From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Iowa Sightings > Greetings All, >I am looking for any information that you might have on sightings in >Iowa. For instance, I seem to recall seeing in a book may years ago >a picture taken of a UFO right by the water tower in Hiawatha, Iowa, >although I can't for the life of me remember what book I saw it in. The picture was originally the property of the Cedar Rapids Gazette and was published in Brad Steiger's MYSTERIES OF TIME & SPACE (Prentice Hall, 1974). Official UFO (magazine) also carried stories about the Iowa UFO landings in 1973, as did SAGA's UFO Report. Hope this helps. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:38:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:31:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:27:26 -0700 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze <snip> > In fairness when mentioning the model controversy, one should mention > Walters' defense. The issue is only tangentally touched on in "UFOs are > Real" but is discussed more in one of Ed's previous books. (Has anyone on > the list independently investigated the model business and Ed's defense?) Hello list, Kevin Randle goes into the model business fairly extensively in his new book, 'The Randle Report' in the chapter concerned with the Gulf Breeze sightings. > According to Ed, the model was found by the new owner of Ed's old house > after a period of ten months when the house was empty and open to the > public. Again check Kevin's book for detail. > Also according to Ed, the new owner got a visit from a reporter > asking if he had found a model *before* the model was found. The reporter > denies receiving a tip, but declined to take a polygraph test. I would never submit to a polygraph test under any circunstances, any more than I would to some which doctor reading bones or the entrails of animals as a means for determining the truth, so I don't blame the reporter for his refusal. regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: 'stinguished New Subscriber From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:34:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:09:58 -0400 Subject: Re: 'stinguished New Subscriber >Greetings, >It's a pleasure to welcome Jerome Clark, editor of IUR, and >writer/editor of the splendid three-volume 'UFO Encyclopedia' >to the List. >I trust that Jerry didn't find his first day of receiving posts >too overwhelming - it's been a busy 24 hours.<G> >Errol ================================================================== Hello Errol, Jerry, All, I'd like to second Errol's 'melly grootens' and welcome Jerry to the list! I have a lot of respect for him and his work and I look forward to his contributions. BTW Jerry, I told Steven Greer recently that I'd feel a lot better about the doings in DC if _you_ had his job! Don't break into a sweat though, you haven't been drafted. <G> Welcome aboard. John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: "J. Washington" <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:32:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:38:45 -0400 Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:27:26 -0700 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > >Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:20:28 -0400 > >From: "J. Washington" <skyeking@aye.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > >> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> > >> Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > >> Hi all, > >> I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" > >> by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book > >> and the Gulf Breeze sightings in general? > >Yeah, JJ I do. Some of Ed's photos look suspicious, and his veracity has > >been debated for some time. The discovery of a scale model of one of the > >UFOs that he allegedly photographed didn't help. > In fairness when mentioning the model controversy, one should mention > Walters' defense. Also, the model does > not exactly match any in any of Ed's photos (missing details and different > dimensions, although it is very similar.) > Geoff Price > Geoff@CalibanMW.com Those are important distinctions. As I said before, Gulf Breeze is a real place with real people seeing real unidentifieds, and Walters has clearly managed to capture some of them on film. And no amount of "Wishing & Hoping," as Dusty Springfield once sang, is gonna make 'em go away... Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: 'stinguished New Subscriber From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:07:52 -0400 Subject: Re: 'stinguished New Subscriber Subj: UFO UpDate: 'stinguished New Subscriber Date: 97-06-06 23:42:14 EDT From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) To: updates@globalserve.net > It's a pleasure to welcome Jerome Clark, editor of IUR, and > writer/editor of the splendid three-volume 'UFO Encyclopedia' > to the List. So, that explains why John Velez was kissing up to him in that marvelous post about Dr. Greer. Let's see what was it Velez said: > I've got news for you, I'd have a lot more confidence in all of this if a > man like Vallee, or even a Jerome Clarke was at the head. Hahahahaha. It's all becoming clearer now. I see a conspiracy at work. Maybe we should get Ed Komarek to investigate. Rebecca ps. Welcome to the list, Jerry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 7 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: armen victorian <Zius@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 04:56:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:18:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' The subject of recent Roswell "solution" at time of compling USAF's report was brought to McAndrew's attention, separately, and he was asked to look into that angle too. We were asked to look into the role that Brits played for the development of such recon balloons. It was part of a plan even considered then by AEC, to use such methods even as weapons. There is nothing new in McAndrew's "new" report. It is merely a change of direction, one of several options, and the possibilities, which might fit the Roswell bill - perhaps - better. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: George Filer <Majorstar@AOL.COM> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:00:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:32:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze I investigated Gulf Breeze for several weeks, on and off for several years. If Ed Walters never lived, Gulf Breeze is an excellent series of cases. There are plenty of other photographs, videos and eye witnesses without Ed. I interviewed about fifty witnesses. If someone has time, the fishermen who operate out of the area know a great deal more and many are frightened. There are also many strange things happening in the Gulf and the bays around Gulf Breeze. We've really just started investigating the entire situation. By the way if he hoaxed the film, show us how to do it, so they look so excellent. Many experts not just Bruce have tried to figure out how to do it. I've got a publisher that is looking for equivilant photos. Regards, George Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: New Roswell Explanation From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:13:51 -0400 Subject: Re: New Roswell Explanation In a message dated 97-06-07 08:53:23 EDT, updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) writes: >Subj: UFO UpDate: New Roswell Explanation >Date: 97-06-07 08:53:23 EDT >From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >To: updates@globalserve.net > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 13:21:55 -0700 > Subject: New Roswell Explanation > To: updates@globalserve.net > NEW ROSWELL EXPLANATION > RUMOR LINE FROM THE EAST COAST ----- (JUST A RUMOR) > The Air Force is coming out with a new report revealing that the crash at > Roswell in 1947 was the debris from a test of a glider hanging from a > Japanese FUGO Balloon. The glider held 2 Japanese engineers whose bodies > were found bloated in the sun! <snip> IF and a big IF something like this rumor does happen, personally I would be interested in reviewing the declassified documents describing the project/crash etc before making a judgement. Of course everyone should realize that IF the project records describes the crash at Brazel ranch, bodies complete with photos, it will be written off by asundry Roswell theorists/authors/"believers" of this or that Roswell theory as a 1947 coverup to hide the Mogel coverup, which was to hide the UFO coverup. Personally I am interested in the FACTS of Roswell regardless of where they lead. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:15:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:10:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Thinking more about this Strom Thurmond business.... > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Tu, 5 Jun 1997 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net, CNINews1@aol.com > Subject: NEW York Times > June 5, 1997 > Thurmond Disputes Book on Purported Alien Spaceship > By WILLIAM J. BROAD >A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial >power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being >disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the >Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. Here we have the very weird spectacle of a United States senator writing the introduction to a book full of lurid UFO revelations, and then repudiating it. How could that happen? Three explanations: 1. The writer or publisher somehow conned the guy into endorsing the writing, without telling him what the book was actually about. This, to put it mildly, is unlikely. A scheme like that would obviously backfire, the moment Thurmond saw the book, or was told (by a news reporter, for instance) what was in it. Why would anyone with half a brain want to plan something that wouldn't work? Besides, anyone in their right mind would want to see the manuscript of the book before writing an introduction. So how would the scheme even get to first base? 2. Thurmond really did endorse the contents of the book, because he wanted the truth about UFOs to be revealed. But then intelligence agencies put pressure on him to back away. Totally unlikely. If a United States senator wanted to reveal a UFO secret -- or even reveal that he or she believed a UFO secret existed -- he or she would, first, say something about it in the foreword to the book. "After many years, I have come to believe that the American public," etc. etc. etc. Apparently there's not a word about UFOs in Thurmond's foreword. Second, you'd think a United States senator would do more than write a foreword to a book. Obviously, the media would come calling once the book was published, to ask if the Senator really believes the UFO stuff is true. Senators understand about the media; that's one reason they're senators. So you'd think a senator who wanted to go public about this would call a press conference, in order to control the way the story hit the media -- and also to get the story out to as many people as possible. Nobody in public life would take a dramatic position like this and then carry on as if nothing had changed. 3. Thurmond, 94 years old, is out of it, and didn't know what he was doing. Of the three possible explanations, this one makes the most sense. In fact, it's the only one that makes _any_ sense. How the thing happened, I don't have a clue. Did Corso tell Thurmond what the book was about, and Thurmond somehow didn't get it? Did Corso start to tell Thurmond, and Thurmond -- who was busy or distracted that day -- say something like "That's all right, boy, y'all just tell me what y'all want me to write, and ah'll write it for you"? Who knows? If, let's say, Dianne Feinstein or Sam Nunn or John Glenn or some other senator who's clearly on top of things had been involved, we'd really have a mystery. But since it's Thurmond...I'm betting he's just too out of it to know what's going on. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:19:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' In a message dated 97-06-06 14:52:33 EDT, you write: > Subj: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > Date: 97-06-06 14:52:33 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved > I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out shortly > and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it wasn't Mogul. It > was a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers designed lifting body into > the sky that could be cut lose to guide to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) > > Supposedly the design was tested in the wind tunnels at Wright Field. And, > the Air Force supposedly used Frank Kaufmann's testimony as part of their > "proof" of this thing. > In fact, it sounds as if they are going to rely on the unreliable > testimony of the major Roswell witnesses. I guess now we'll be told that their > reports were accurate, we just looked in the wrong place. I can't wait to see how > the media will deal with this. > <snip> Personally, If this is true, I want to see the project records (documentation). I am open to new information as should all impartial (non-believer type) investigators who are interested in the truth of Roswell where ever that may lead us. If the documentation should prove to be accurate perhaps complete with photos, the believers are still going to rationalize it away as a coverup, to hide the Mogel coverup, which was in reality all a big coverup to hid the UFOs/ETs. Watch and see. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Berlin Memorandum Update #2 From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> Date: 07 June 97 19:43:00 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:23:07 -0400 Subject: Berlin Memorandum Update #2 ********************************************************************* *I n t e r n a t i o n a l R o s w e l l I n i t i a t i v e* ********************************************************************** German Coordinators Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg May 1997 (Update June 7th, 1997) **************** *B E R L I N M E M O R A N D U M* **************** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *continued from part #1* >>>>> Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:30:19 -0700 From: *Andreas von Retyi* Blinkered mentality in science is absurd. It is easy, considering the massive official secrecy, to explain away the unusual. But, as long as negativists have no evidence and real explanations for the so far unsoveld facts, we have to do insistent research in "Roswell" Public pressure, such as it comes from the Roswell Initiative, is of greatest importance ti minimize the imbalance of power and to show the rulers of this world that their hidden activities are not performed in completely darkness. We have the right of free information. Publicity should not be underestomated as a tool of control whereas everything which happens under complete secrecy is out of any control. There's no excuse that the public is desinformed in such an amount as it happens, for example, with Roswell by the U.S. Air Force. The contradictions have shown that with this incident far more is linked than the crash of a simple balloon. *Andreas von Retyi, Switzerland* ********** Date: Sun 18 May 1997, 22:22 GMT From: *Mario Ringmann* Roswell -- a myth which made history. Until today no one really knows the correct story about the alleged crash of an extraterrestrial craft. Since six years I know about this incident and meanwhile it became most likely to me that it was something not from this world what crashed there in 1947. Since the beginnig I supported the International Roswell Initiative which has the aim to bring light into the UFO secrecy and bring it to an end. I think it is high time to put one's cards on the table. Humankind has a right to know the truth. *Mario Ringmann, Germany* *Editor UNKNOWN REALITY* ********** Date: 19 May 97 08:10:08 EDT From: *Bob Shell* Certainly I support the Roswell initiative. I signed one of the petitions a long time ago, and want an end to all government secrecy. As long as governments hold knowledge captive, there can be no true freedom for mankind. I do not know what happened in New Mexico in the summer of 1947, but I have talked to enough witnesses first hand, and seen and read the witness of others, and I am convinced that something very strange happened. As I have said many times about the "official explanation", this balloon just does not fly! *Bob Shell* ********** Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: *Ed Komarek* Note in support of the International Roswell Initiative: I Ed Komarek am a co-founder of Operation Right To Know (ORTK). Operation Right To Know has and continues to support the International Roswell Initiative. We too are puzzled by Kent Jeffreys sudden change of heart. We of ORTK feel very strongly that the evidence collected to date on Roswell strongly supports the premise that a flying saucer of extraterrestral origin did crash near Roswell in 1947 and was covered up by the United States Government. We are also aware of attempts by several individuals, some with intelligence backgrounds, to debunk the Roswell case. The arguments being made against Roswell simply to not stand up under close scrunity. These debunkers with connections to the nortorious and unscientific CSICOP organization seem to be part of a UFO/ET containment strategy attempting to discredit Roswell in particular and UFOs in general. *Ed Komarek* *ORTK* ********** Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:42:53 -0400 (EDT) From: *Michael Lindeman* The mystery regarding a possible recovery of a crashed UFO near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 remains, 50 years later, unresolved. One of the few first-hand eyewitnesses still living, physician Jesse A. Marcel Jr., says he remains convinced he was shown highly unusual pieces of wreckage taken from the debris field near Corona by his father, Major Jesse Marcel. Arguments put forward by authors such as Karl Pflock and Kal Korff, and especially by the U.S. Air Force, that this debris was entirely caused by a so-called Mogul balloon are not conclusive. Meanwhile, allegations of a second crash site, while problematical, have the support of deathbed testimony by a number of soldiers and other credible eyewitnesses, and are likewise supported by the second-hand but trustworthy testimony of Glenn Dennis. Furthermore, there can be no reasonable doubt that the U.S. government has engaged in long-running deception regarding possible evidence of UFO activity, such that the recent efforts by the U.S. Air Force to finally resolve the Roswell mystery cannot be considered reliable. With all this in mind, I believe it is essential that the broad public demand for disclosure of official UFO information, as exemplified by the international Roswell Initiative, be carried forward until that public demand is satisfied. The innumerable UFO encounters recorded around the world have profound implications for all humankind. The truth behind these events is not and cannot be the property of any single government, less still of any secret faction within a government. Therefore, the Roswell Initiative and other similar public actions must go forward until the truth is told. *Michael Lindeman* *Editor, CNI News* ********** Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:55:33 -0400 (EDT) From: *Jesse Marcel, Jr.* I am convinced that Roswell represents an extraordinary event where beings from another star system met an unhappy end. Any single persons story concerning the Roswell event would not stand alone on its own merit, but when you collectively add all of these anecdotal accounts together, you must come to the same conclusion that I have -- and that is the event at Roswell is the crash of an alien interplanatary vehicle. When you rule out all other explanations, the one explanation that is left is the accurate one even if it is most outlandish. Keep up your good work on the 'International Roswell Initiative' , the world deserves a better answer than the one our government would have you believe. *Jesse Marcel, Jr.* ********** From: *Steven M. Greer M.D.* We would love to see you in England this summer, and certainly support your Roswell initiative. Technically, it may be better to call it the New Mexico UFO crash of the 1947 era, since the crash situation is more complex than anyone could have suspected when it was called the Roswell Event. *Steven M. Greer, M.D., U.S.A.* *Director of CSETI* ********** Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:51:07 +0000 From: *Luc Buergin* The Roswell case could represent one of the greatest revelations in the history of humankind - the knowledge that we, as intelligent life, are not alone. For this reason it should be pursued relentlessly with no respect to the benefit of the researchers. We all should stay close together and steadfast in our quest for the thruth." *Luc Buergin, Switzerland* ********** Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: *Jochen Kopp* The Roswell crash is without any doubt the most important incident for the UFO research. Thousands of hours of investigations, conducted by our most estimated researchers, brought to light hundreds of witnesses, among them first-and second-hand ones and others. these were all humans who were involved in the retrieving of the debris and the deceased extraterrestrial bodies and who have hardened their testimony by their oaths. This caused a severe notch into the armature of the UFO cover-up. Now it is up to us, in a joint effort, together with the International Roswell Initiative, to breack through this armament. Now we have the chance to do so -- let's seize it! *Jochen Kopp, Germany* *Editor THE UFO-KURIER* ********** Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:48:12 +0200 From: *Christophe Meessen* I encourage everybody working on the Rosswell initiative or ufology in general to help the truth to come out. But keep in mind that very few people are ready to face it or would event stand it if it comes out to be true. I can only see two thesis that could explain why the secret is so well kept: there is no secret or there is a serious danger for our humanity and civilization to release it in the current context. In the later case must keep in mind that the people responsible of keeping this truth secret are intelligent and rational people and above all concerned about security. If it is mandatory to push for the truth to come out with actions like the Roswell initiative there should also be an initiative to prepare people to face it if it comes out to be true. Just get people accustomed to this possibility, this would be a great help to release the secret and for the people who have to carry it. So keep doing this good job and also make a lot of publicity and prepare people for eventuality of this ET stories to be true. Bien cordialement, *Christophe Meessen, Belgium* ********** Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:36:21 GMT From: *Erik Beckjord* At the National UFO Museum in San Francisco, we hand out many Roswell Declaration forms, and we mail hundreds to Clinton and the appropriate senators and representatives. We were not present at Roswell in l947, and we don't care if Kent Jefferies is on or off re the event. The point is to ask, demand, that any or all UFO and body retrievals as well as all ufo info our government has, be reveals to the public. It doesn;t matter if Roswell per se, was involved. There are hundreds, thousands of events. So, if need be, modify the form, and keep signing, and keep sending. Our Museum is dedicated to getting Clinton to reveal the truth. *Erik Beckjord,MBA, curator* *National UFO Museum, 709 Union st* *S.F.,CA 94133* ********** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *continued in part #3* >>>>>>> Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage of the International Roswell Initiative, Germany: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:16:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso In a message dated 97-06-07 06:00:26 EDT, you write: >Subj: UFO UpDate: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso >Date: 97-06-07 06:00:26 EDT >From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >To: updates@globalserve.net > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:31:17 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Debunker Karl Pflock(ex CIA & DOD) Begins Attack On Corso <Ed commentary on Karl Pflock deleted for brevity> > Here we go again! > From the May 20 Issue of Saucer Smear > ---------------------- > KARL PFLOCK, co-author of the forthcoming book "Shockingly Close to the > Truth!", writes as follows: > "John Alexander's letter (in the April 20th `Smear') re Lt. > Colonel Phillip Corso is interesting both for what it does > and does not say: Taking the latter first, in a March 24th > telephone conversation, John told me he not only had checked > out Corso's military career but had extensively researched the > histories of earthly technologies (e.g., transistors, computer > chips, lasers) which Corso claims are the spawn of alien > artifacts recovered from (which?) one of the many alleged > Roswell 'crash' sites and provided to American industry by > himself and his conveniently late boss General Arthur Trudeau, > beginning circa 1961. > "John told me his investigations confirmed what he (and I) > thought to be true: (1) The historical record of these > technologies is clear, complete, and unambiguous, establishing > without a doubt that they are products of good ol' homo sap > skull sweat, with no help of any sort from alien know-how; and > (2) Some were developed before Corso claimed he and Trudeau > gave American industry a jump start with alien goodies. Why > John didn't include this information in his letter, along with > his 'character reference' for Corso, only he can tell us. All of this information can be easily verified with easy research. If it in fact is verified all the folks will then explain it away by saying the history/books were altered in order to coverup the "alien" origins of all this so called technology. It will then spawn new conspiracy theorys, new so called funded research requests -- can't you see Roswell theorists investigating the origins of so called technology with asundry visits to this or that archives and how MJ-12/or whatever Top Secret group was hooked into it from the "very" beginning. > "As for Corso`s alleged heroic exposure of sordid and secret > Cold War activities concerning POWs and decades of U.S. > incursions into Soviet airspace with significant losses of > aircraft and aircrews - baloney! Most of what Corso had to say > to Congress was old news, and much of the rest was highly > questionable. And Project Horizon, the Army's moon-base plan? Corso did was confirm (with documents that had been declassified for the hearings) the he personally briefed Eisenhower on 1800 US POWs that were taken out of Korea during the Korean war to China. Eisenhowers comment was essentially that he wasn't going to risk a nuclear confrontation over 1800 men. Not to mention some other excellent Eisenhower administration stuff. I know that the archvists at the Eisenhower Presidential library find him totally credible, totally believable and can't understand why he "would be involved in this less credible UFO trash." > Anyone who has paid any serious attention to U.S. space > programs since the 50s has known about it for decades. I think > I first heard of it from the late science-fiction great Robert > Heinlein in the mid-60s, and somewhere in a box in my garage, > I have a fairly lengthy, unclassified summary of the > Army plan. Not to mention NASA plans 1-10 to have moon bases/space stations etc etc. > "And as for Corso being a `fine gentleman' and `no bulishit > artist', well, I guess we all have our own standards. In > January 1993, my wife and I had the `pleasure' of spending > several hours with the good colonel in and around Roswell, > and, as I noted in an earlier missive in `Smear', at best he's > Frank Kaufmann with credentials! Not even a "Jim Ragsdale" with credentials? Come now! > "A final thought: If Corso was such a big deal, why is it he > retired from the Army as a dime-a-dozen lieutenant Colonel > after only 20 years of service?" Kind of like saying if World War 2 hero and Congressional Medal of Honor winner Audie Murphy was such a big deal, why did he leave the Army after the war at only a "Captain". Cheers,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Berlin Memorandum Update #1 From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> Date: 07 June 97 19:43:00 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:21:21 -0400 Subject: Berlin Memorandum Update #1 ********************************************************************* *I n t e r n a t i o n a l R o s w e l l I n i t i a t i v e* ********************************************************************** German Coordinators Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg May 1997 (Update June 7th, 1997) **************** *B E R L I N M E M O R A N D U M* **************** The International Roswell Intiative is based upon an idea of Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg who intended to support the research of Mr. Kent Jeffrey in the so-called Roswell-Incident of 1947 after a meeting with him in the lobby of the Palace-Hotel, Berlin, in 1993. Our idea was to write down a text which should be distributed worldwide and signed by as many people as possible to make it the most powerful grassroots effort in modern UFO history. We wrote a letter to Kent Jeffrey and explained our project. Thus, he wrote the "Roswell Declaration" and brought the International Roswell Initiative to life. At that time it seemed to be within reach that an Executive Order could be induced by Congressman Steven Schiff and the Declaration should be a most powerful tool to support this. By the time, the Roswell Declaration really became powerful by the signatures of 20,000(plus) people from all over the world. Despite all momentary developements all the 20,000 plus signed Roswell Declarations will be delivered to the White House in early July as Kent Jeffrey promised in a fax dated of May 8th 1997. The Initiative received signed Declarations from people of all ages and professions including two astronauts whereof one walked on the Moon. And it seemed, that the Roswell Delaration could generate within those who had signed it some kind of trust and - hope. Because of his personal conclusions which he wrote down in a 17 pages paper entiteled "Roswell--Anatomy Of A Myth" and wherof a summary is released on June 7th in the MUFON UFO Journal, Kent Jeffrey marches no longer with us on our way towards the truth about the Roswell Incident which still remains unsolved. As far as we and other researchers know no new documents have surfaced and according to the testimony of Jesse Marcel, Jr., his hypnosis session in Washington in late January 1997 brought no new information to what he has remebered and told before about what he saw when in July 1947 his father brought the unusual debris into the kitchen of his home. So we, the German Coordinators of the Roswell Initiative, feel obliged to all those who have signed the Declaration to show them all that the trust and hope they have invested in the Initiative was and is fully justified. We, Hans-Juergen Kyborg and Joachim Koch, are born in a city which has suffered a lot in the years after WW II. Especially we Berliners have experienced what it means to have friends whom you can trust and who give you hope for a better future and what it means to resist in a united effort. Bound to these ideals we, as the German Coordinators and as Berliners, declare publicly that we stay steadfast to the primary goal of the Roswell Initiative: to find out the truth about what happened in New Mexico in 1947 and to continue in our effort to end the policy of secrecy and cover-ups on a fact that has become crystal-clear to everyone who has done serious and open-minded research in what is called the UFO phenomenon: that we are not alone in the universe. We shall withstand all attempts to diminish the power of the International Roswell Initiative such as official reports and film footage in the past or secluded conclusions in the present. Independent, serious and self-critical researchers have provided piece after piece of an enigmatic puzzle and will continue to do so. And more and more, one certain picture crops out: Roswell *was something* *else* than the crash of a (or some) balloon(s) consisting of mundane material like balsa wood and flower painted tape. *Shouldn't we all declare that we are Berliners -- again?* If you think that what is written above corresponds to your point of view and you would like support this BERLIN MEMORANDUM you are invited to do so - no matter where you are, where you come from and what your education is - by sending us a few sentences with your current view of Roswell and, if you think so, why it is important to have such efforts like the Roswell Initiative. We would appreciate to add your supporting comments to the many others you can read below (in order of the date of income). We shall publish the updated BERLIN MEMORANDUM from now on several times until July 8th 1997. *Upon our request worldwide know and respected* *researchers have sent us spontanuously and* *immediately in an act of solidarity their view* *of the current state of Roswell and their opinion* *about an effort such like* *the International Roswell Initiative.* *This is the place to say thank you with all our heart.* (All the following contributions are in order of the incoming date) Date: Tue, 13 May 97 22:49 +0100 From: *Dr.Johannes Fiebag* What happened 1947 in Roswell? To be honest: I dont know. But only a few people here on this planet will know what realley happened there. Was it the crash of a weather balloon? Or a spy balloon? Or after all an extraterrestrial spacecraft? On thing is for sure: since Roswell gained more and more attention for the researchers and the media since the seventies, the attempts of covering-up, disowning and debunking of official and non-official, of governmental as well as obscure private (or alledgedly private) groups and individuals increased in an astonishing rate. To say it clearly: if it really was "only" a MOGUL balloon, which crashed in the desert of New Mexico, then one must say that the U.S. Air Force during the past decades has done everything to contribute to the momentary confusion and lack of information by its dubious behavior (or was this full intention...?) And if not? If was something different? Then it is high time - despite all developments, disclaimers and contradictions - finally to put the facts and the truth on the table. To achieve this is the basis of the Roswell Initiative. And no matter which is one's own point of view regarding this incident, we all should be interested to know the truth! *Dr. Johannes Fiebag, Germany* ********** Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:24 GMT From: *Walter-Joerg Langbein* 50 years have passed by since the Roswell Incident. No one, no single group, has the right to have information about "UFOs" for its own. There is the central question: are we alone in the universe? Every human being here on this planet has the right to get every information which could help to answer this. For these reasons I support the Roswell Initiative since years in my books. It is the main concern that impotant information which are withheld from the public due to official cover-up policy must no put into the open. Therefore was and is the Roswell Initiative still of greatest importance. *Walter-Joerg Langbein, Germany* ********** Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:29:51 -0300 From: *Stanton Friedman* As the nuclear physicist who began the civilian investigation of the l947 Roswell Incident in 1978, was the first to locate and talk to many witnesses and as author or coauthor of numerous relevant papers and 2 books "Crash at Corona" and TOP SECRET/MAJIC, I am absolutely convinced that the evidence is overwhelming that the US government recovered the wreckage of 2 crashed flying saucers (one in the Plains of San Augustin, the other near Corona) and several alien bodies New Mexico in July 1947. The Mogul explanation doesn't fit the data. The government should offer total amnesty to military or other witnesses connected with the two recoveries (New Mexico, July 1947), since according to the USAF a long since declassified MOGUL balloon was all that was involved. If they cannot offer amnesty, one has to ask why not? *Stanton Friedman, Canada* ********** Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: *Kevin Randle* There is no doubt in my mind that what fell outside of Roswell, New Mexico was a craft built on another planet. There is no doubt that the military, and the American government initiated a cover-up to hide these facts. And there is no doubt that the copver-up persists today. The Roswell Initiative is important because it is the first coordinated effort to crack through that cover and learn the truth. *Kevin Randle, U.S.A.* ********** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *continued in part two* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage of the International Roswell Initiative, Germany: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1 Viele Gruesse Joachim Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage der Internationalen Roswell Initiative, Deutschland: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Berlin Memorandum Update #3 From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> Date: 07 June 97 19:43:00 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:24:39 -0400 Subject: Berlin Memorandum Update #3 ********************************************************************* *I n t e r n a t i o n a l R o s w e l l I n i t i a t i v e* ********************************************************************** German Coordinators Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg May 1997 (Update June 7th, 1997) **************** *B E R L I N M E M O R A N D U M* **************** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *continued from part #2* >>>>> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 05:33:04 -0300 From: *Carlos Barboza* En nombre de un grupo de uruguayos aficionados a la busqueda de la verdad respecto al tema UFO en general y a Roswell en particular damos todo nuestro apoyo a los esfuezos de desenmascarar el encubrimiento oficial sobre el caso Roswell. *Carlos Barboza, Uruguay* --------- English version of supporting message follows ----------- On behalf of a group of Uruguayan friends fond on the search of truth concerning UFO subject in general and interested in Roswell case in particular, we give all our support to the efforts of unmasking the official cover-up on the subject. *Carlos Barboza, Uruguay* ********** Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 07:20:56 -0500 From: *Mark Rodeghier* I continue to support the Roswell initiative and agree completely with your statement below that there is more reason for optimism now than ever before. The U.S. government must be held accountable for a full and complete explanation of what was recovered at Roswell in 1947. *Mark Rodeghier* *Center for UFO Studies* ********** Quote from a letter we wrote to Mr. Rodeghier: > "There is now more reason for optimism than at any time in the past. > With the "Roswell Declaration", for the first time ever, there is an > organized worldwide effort to bring this matter into the open, once > and for all." ********** Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:41:23 -0400 (EDT) From: *LAWHORNLD* I am a member of MUFON and a active UFOlogist. I operate Amateur Radio station W4VIW. I also operate a local bbs which is W4VIW's BBS @ 864- 235-8708 located in Greenville, S .C. U.S.A. I would like to go on record as backing International Roswell Initiative. Keep up the good work. *LAWHORNLD* ********** Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:15:21 +0200 From: *Jeroen Wierda* I first heard about the whole Roswell incident when I was 8, and read my first UFO book. The title unfortunately escaped me. After reading letters, articles, and books about the whole Roswell case I do tend to believe that something really did crash there. And in my opinion it was not a Mogul balloon (as in Project Mogul). The US government has changed their mind about this incident far too much to just make us believe that it was "just" a back then TOP SECRET balloon. It is therefore imperative that we should do some very thorough investigations on site, as well as in archives (for as far as that hasn't yet been done). What IMO the government is trying to do is prolonging the ongoing secrecy until all possible proof is wiped out. This proof is among others the people who were on site at that particular time. In most cases the people who back then were already adults are rapidly reaching an age at which the witness group is thinned. Also the knowledge about the incident is fading from their memories. I also believe that certain practises are used to disinform the public. One example of this is the Santilli film where one can see people conducting an autopsy on a strange looking being which looks like either an alien type "Grey" or a Progeria patient. Adding minor flawes in the film, as well as making it known very wide, and knowing that it will be exposed as a fake, will IMO contribute to people thinking that the whole Roswell case is fake! I will support as well as participate in any converation that can bring forth some constructive arguments that can lead to better understanding the things that happened out there 50 Yrs ago. I hope we will finally turn around every single stone to find what is underneath! *Jeroen Wierda* *President of Picard UFO Research International* ********** Date: Fri, 30 May 97 09:08 BST From: *Nick Gleeson* I have little doubt that what happened in Roswell is not what the Us goverment want us to believe, the most secret thing at the time was the Atomic bomb which has long since been de-classified. One may even obtain a copy of the blue prints for this animal. But why not the truth of the crash at Corona? what could possibly be more top secret than the Atomic bomb... Its time to end this senseless cover-up and let the world know the truth about the crash at Roswell. We don't swallow the Mogule explanation, we are not idiots. *Nick Gleeson, Ireland* ********** Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:55:14 +0800 From: *Professor Dr. John D. Frodsham* June 2 1997 I am President of the Australasian Society for Psychical Research and Vice-President of UFORUM, a Western Australian UFO Research Group. On the basis of our own lengthy and extensive research into available secondary sources, all eight members of our executive committee are thoroughly convinced, after exhaustive discussion, that there is overwhelming evidence that the U.S. government recovered the wreckage of an alien craft, along with alien bodies,outside Roswell in July 1947. No other explanations given seem to us even remotely credible. We believe that the Roswell Initiative is vitally important and deserves the strongest support from the public, as well as from ufologists. *Professor Dr. John D. Frodsham* *Foundation Professor of English and Comparative Literature* *Murdoch University,* *Western Australia* ********** From: elaine26@juno.com (Elaine M Douglass) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 01:22:02 EDT June 6, 1997 Washington DC Dear Joachim: Read in CNI news about your continued support for the Roswell initiative. Good work. I agree. You ask for response. Mine is: the US govt, and its lackys, have yet to explain why, if the material recovered at Roswell was mundane, the base commander announced recovery of a "flying disc." This is a wholly surface fact, by which I mean it is not a fact ferreted out by researchers, but is in the undisputed public record. This fact is on the surface, is hard, is prominent--and it is quite unexplained. A related matter, uncovered by researchers, and wholly consistent, is the amazement of Jesse Marcel Sr at the material recovered--how can this be explained? The CIC officer (what's his name?), who would speak only to the govt's lackys, and is one himself, who was touted by Col. Weaver of the AF as the only living person actually at the site, claimed the recovered material was mundane. If so, then why didn't he tell Jesse Marcel? They spent a whole day or more at the site, and travelling to and fro, together, together, and yet Marcel emerges from the encounter amazed enough to wake up his family to show them the amazing material. And I must emphazize, although we have heard it before, the 509th was the air unit that dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, and they were the only nuclear-equipped air unit in the world at that time. THEY WERE NOT TECHNICAL NOVICES. It is inconceivable to me that Jesse Marcel would deceive himself into thinking that balsa wood and flowered tape were something extraordinary. These are my reasons for continuing to believe that the Roswell crash was an ET vehicle. Again, my commendations to you for continuing to uphold the Roswell Declaration.[...] My own affiliation is with Operation Right to Know. Let me make known to you that we intend to hold a National UFO March on Washington July 5, 1999, although this date and event has not been officially announced by ORTK. Perhaps you would be interested in coming to America to march with us? *Elaine Douglass, U.S.A.* ********** Blessings to all Joachim Koch Internet: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Homepage der Internationalen Roswell Initiative, Deutschland: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/Homepages/JKoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Greer's 'Antics' From: bikebob <bikebob@MO.NET> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:46:36 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:26:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Greer's 'Antics' The "Outside" magazine (September, 1994) article, "Alien Brothers, Come on Down!" (which mentions Steven Greer) can be found on-line at the following URL: http://outside.starwave.com/magazine/0994/949falei.html Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri Tailwinds to you... See you ON the road! /// BICYCLE BOB /// bikebob@mo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Chupacabras Segment in National Geographic Explorer From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:04:05 -0400 Subject: Chupacabras Segment in National Geographic Explorer From: "Hector Armstrong" <Hector.Armstrong@bankerstrust.com> Note: Hector, one of the founding members of UFOR, recently graduated from Princeton University, where he ran the Chupacabras Homepage. He is starting in the "outside world" and is missing the student life (now is work, work, work, and more work). He'll get used to it. Welcome to the jungle, Tito! English Translation follows each paragraph. Bueno, te escribo para dejarte saber que National Geographic Television va a incluir un segmento sobre el Chupacabra en su broadcast del show "National Geographic Explorer" el domingo 8 de Junio a las 7 PM. El segmento es de 15 minutos y correra entre 8-9 PM. Yo soy el narrador y salgo en el segmento, que nos ensen~a al fenomeno del Chupacabra en todas sus facetas y le da un tratamiento bastante serio, (para el tema jocoso que es!). Estuve en Puerto Rico en Marzo y en Miami en Abril filmando. Hablamos con muchisimas personas relacionadas con el fenomeno, incluyendo a Chemo Soto, el Dr. Carlos Soto, Jorge Martin y muchos otros [Note: I, francisco, tried to reach Dr. Sanchez-Ocejo in Miami to see if he is also on the show, he was in FOX channel 7 here in Miami interviewed about the Chupacabras]. Fuimos a los bosques de Canovanas y alrededor de la isla en busqueda de cuentos, avistamientos y testimonios. Va a ser un buen show. English I write to let you know that National Geographic Television is going to include in the broadcast of its National Geographic Explorer this next Sunday, June 8, 1997 at 7:00 PM. The segment is of about 15 minutes and will run between 8:00 PM to 9:00 PM. I am the narrator and I also appear in the segment, which shows the Chupacabras Phenomenon in all its facets and gives to it a serious treatment (even though is a [somewhat] humorous thing). I had been in Puerto Rico in March and in Miami in April filming [I tried to reach Dr. Sanchez-Ocejo in Miami to see if he was to be in the show but he was not at home]. We spoke to many persons related with the phenomenon, including Chemo Soto [mayor of Canovanas, a municipalitity in the NE of PR, where many cases ocurre], with Dr. Carlos Soto, Jorge Martin and many others. We went to the forest of Canovanas and around the Island in search of tales, sightings and testimonials. Is [going to be] a good show. Yo creo que el programa balancea muy bien todos los puntos de vista y nos da a conocer mas en detalle el impacto que el Chupacabra ha tenido en Puerto Rico a afuera de Puerto Rico, creamos en el o no. Por favor dejale saber a cualquier persona que pueda estar interesada en ver el Chupacabra en television nacional. Me gustaria que muchas personas lo vean, ya que pusimos mucho esfuerzo y usando los recursos del National Geographic pudimos (o sea, pudieron, porque todo lo que yo hice fue narrar y entrevistar) hacer algo que se ve muy profesional. English I believe that the program balance very well all the viewpoints and give us [the oportunity to] know in more detail the impact that the Chupacabra had in Puerto Rico and out of Puerto Rico, believe [us] in it or not. Please, let know any person interested in the Chupacabra [to see it in] national television. I would like that many persons watch it, as we put a lot of effort and, using the resources of National Geographic, we were able to (well, they they were able to, I only narrated and interviewed) do something very professional. Saludos Greetings Hector "Tito" Armstrong Search for other documents from or mentioning: d005734c |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: More about IRC channels From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:19:36 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:00:59 -0400 Subject: Re: More about IRC channels > From: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca: > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:58:28 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: More about IRC channels I've had several emails about IRC channels sinec I made my original comment in response to the CSETI IRC note. #visitations is still on Undernet, and #ufo/esp is on Undernet as well Also, there is an occasional channel #aliens on Efnet And there's a UFO-related channel on something called SuperNet. Anyone heard of it? I believe it is related to the FIDONET UFO discussion group, but I haven't been able to track it down. Boy! It's hard to keep this stuff current! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Govt(s) UFO Document Archives (was Movie U.F.O.) From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 16:41:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:05:00 -0400 Subject: Govt(s) UFO Document Archives (was Movie U.F.O.) > Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 22:34:53 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. > > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:07:18 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: The 1956 Movie U.F.O. > > SNIP < > > Gary has kindly donated copies of all his research and all > > his UFO files for use at the proposed Government UFO Document > > Archives. > > Best regards, > > Jan Aldrich > > Project 1947 > Jan, > Could you post some additional information on the project for the > proposed Government UFO Document Archives to the list. > Thanks, > Gary Alevy > Okay, Gary, happy to oblige: Some information was previously posted on the Project 1947 and Current Encounters Lists. Since it has now passed on to other lists here is some of basic information from the first post (slightly edited): * * * * "There is interested in founding a repository of government and other serious material. Material gathered in the course of Project 1947 will be the core of this archives. The archives as proposed would proceed in phases. "First is finding a storage place for which little or no rent will be charged. Utilities and common area fees could probably be funded. Within 20 miles of my location in Connecticut there are all kinds of malls and office space which is empty. As the archives would be tax-exempt. The donation by a land lord could be a tax write off. "Second phase would be to gather additional material and equipment. Just about any type of office equipment would be welcome. Copiers, old computers, microfilm reader-printers, filing cabinets, bookcases, chairs, tables, etc. would be welcome. Once again, donations of this equipment would be tax deductible. UFO material could be donated also for a tax write off. Cast off filing material from businesses or other tax exempt organizations would be welcome. The tax-exempt UFO organizations do not know how to 'beg' for such material. "The archives would do research for a fee and continue to acquire material. It is hoped that it could be at least partially self funding, but will not be able to stand without some patrons. "Finally, in the last phase, the archives would be open to the public with a part-time staff and some volunteers. "The final location is not determinded. Ideally, the final location would be at an archives or university. However, as an interim solution, it will be established and expanded privately by a tax exempt body. "Some informal work has been done towards these goals. Ed Steward, Loren Gross, others, and I have pool all microfilm of government and other material we had. Many microfilm rolls were one of a kind and no longer existed in government archives. All microfilm was duplicated so it now exists in more than one location. "Comments are welcome of this project. "Some parts of this effort are effective now--today. There is modest funding available *now* here and overseas for research to acquire government UFO documents. For example FUFOR can not pay a salary, but expenses such as food, lodging, copying, and travel can be funded for such research. There is money for existing government document collections which might be costly for the owners to copy and send to the proposed archives." " Additionally, some people who want to donate all or part of their ufo collections, have been told there is no storage space available at present UFO organizations. Now, there is storage available, right now. Donations of such material could be tax deductible. "Also, there is money available to copy such material for a modest fee; so it would be available for the archives. We want to try to prevent the additional loss of valuable material." * * * * * Since this post, several likely locations for interim and finally sites have been found. It is felt that all documents should be transfered to CD-ROM, and then the documents retired to an educational or other such institution. In the meantime someone who can catalog and work on them is required for a custodian. Once again, there are several people who are good candidates. For about two year an informal effort towards this proposed archives have gone forward. Other developments are in the "laps of the gods" right now. So I cannot be more specific. A number of people who are also interested in such a proposal have donated or loaned significant UFO material both government and otherwise. This is not my idea. However, I support it. Significant material was gathered for such an archives in the course of Project 1947. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:34:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO >> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:37:11 -0400 >> From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO sighting! > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:46:44 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Charles Moore, project mogul member had a UFO sighting! > > All, > > I just noticed this page in a book called UFO, by Charles E. > > Sellier. It appears Charles B. Moore, the Project Mogul witness has a > > UFO sighting. These random pages were put in the book to show examples > > of UFO documents. It's pure luck that this was included! Attached image > > below: >Scott, >This is pretty old news, Edward Ruppelt comments extensively on this >sighting and that the General Mills ballonists nearly beat up on him >when he questioned their conviction about what they had seen. >The real issue to ask oneself is why has the sighting been deliberately >ignored by the skeptics and debunkers who parade Moore to the front in >support for the Mogul balloony? >Gary Not only is this old news, it is incomplete. In my book, PROJECT BLUE BOOK - EXPOSED, I report on both of Moore's sightings. Both are labeled as unidentified. KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Something old and something new, something blue From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 23:53:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:19:07 -0400 Subject: Something old and something new, something blue I just noticed this soon to be released book while browsing the online catalog of my favorite UFO booksource - Arcturus Books http://www.arcturusbooks.com Take a look at the online site, the mini reviews are always a fun read. Robert Girard the proprieter has always been helpful and knowledgeable. He also mails out a printed catalog, there is a nominal charge. I found this mini-review in the Arcturus New Arrivals section. Seems Kevin Randle has been working hard. Randle, Kevin. PROJECT BLUE BOOK EXPOSED. Marlowe, 1997. HC, 282pp. Remember that figure we all took for granted, even though we knew we were dealing with "the party line," that of over 11,000 sightings investigated by Project Blue Book during its life, only 701 remained "unidentified?" Well, that number seems to have been a bit off. According to this investigation, the correct number of "unidentified" cases was 4000! The problem seems to have been that the BB case files were often labeled with one explanation or another, without the object(s) having actually been definitively identified as such within the casework itself PROJECT BLUE BOOK EXPOSED not only examines the BB files meticulously, but also examines the government's role in assuring what the results of the Condon investigation would be. Highly readable, and closing with the whole Blue Book "Unidentified" case file (with pertinent names once deleted restored in many cases), this book opens a new front in the battle against alleged government stonewalling in the acknowledgment and release of internally-held UFO information. $22.95, Due June 8. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: John <flagg@pacbell.net> [John Townsend] Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 05:38:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:12:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:00:47 -0400 > From: George Filer <Majorstar@AOL.COM> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > By the way if he hoaxed the film, show us how to do it, so they look so > excellent. Many experts not just Bruce have tried to figure out how to do > it. I've got a publisher that is looking for equivilant photos. Some hoaxes and tricks have been proven/admitted and people have never been able to duplicate them. People can do amazing things and will more often than not surprise you. Search for other documents from or mentioning: flagg | majorstar |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:39:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >>From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] >>Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:48:28 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved >I'll say one good thing for the Fugo balloon theory. The very tough >parchment described by Marcel, which Brazel said was covered with Japanese >or Chinese-like writing, did bear some resemblance to Fugo balloon material >(though I think Marcel would easily have recognized the writing as Japanese). >It obviously didn't come from the ridiculous fictional "parchment >parachutes" of Mogul (they used small silk parachutes for the payload -- >its marked on the diagrams). Of course, we still have no explanation for the >rest of the materials, like the thin metal that couldn't be cut and >returned to its original shape when crumpled. When this Fugo thing popped up a couple of years ago, I learned quite a bit about them. Those launched by Japan (9000 balloons carrying bombs) did not contain any Japanese writings or markings. They were hoping to hide the source of the balloons by keeping the Japanese writing off them. So, it makes no difference whether or not Marcel could recognize Japanese writing if Fugo is the answer. No Japanese on them. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Alfred's Odd Ode #143 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 11:28:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:45:28 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #143 Apology to MW #143 (For June 8, 1997) Like a hunchback getting water, Or real Ahab=92s Moby Dick. (Sold to me a monster To make me scared, and keep me sick.) I=92m finding that there=92s reading! More than reading, understanding! I=92m not speaking in an empty room! There are motes here with me standing! I wipe some sweat from humble countenance, And breath a sigh of sweet relief. I=92d have gone on speaking anyway, But alone _is_ lonesome, as believed. Now the stars can speak in whispers I can almost understand In the time allotted me To explore what may be grand. I am real; I am genuine. I=92m what I say I am!=20 I can frost your oven=92s cookie! I campaign against your spam! Free as the bird, I can fly unassisted! Across this free landscape I soar!=20 It=92s electrical freedom I create in my mind, As it=92s so hard to find, anymore! Alien view about sex, if you can =96 work with me! It=92s been going on for half a billion years! Successfully done it jazzes your "T" cells, This happens regardless your thinking what=92s *queer*. It boosts the heart rate, While it butters your muffin.=20 It adds years to your life, While it spices your stuffin=92. Kids are not told that this sex is a _good_ thing. The focus is messy, and detail=92s sad. You hard sell the danger, then delete what is sweet, And the kids will _still_ do it, but believing it=92s bad! And how about that limbic. Ain=92t it great for what ails, though? How it smooths at your short hairs. Soothes fever in cool snows? It=92s there we touch base With what is precambrian. It=92s a _truth_ in the real world It=92s a truth that is _twice_ championed! How to be limbic? Yes. . . You _have_ to let yourself go . . . Show _respect_ to your partner, But _go_ down _below_ . . . But, enough about sex, and _that_ web that we weave. Soon, we may be roving Mars! The moon we have conquered; the tracks are still there! The angry red planet =96 traversed by lust=92s cars! The sky=92s of larger Texas Blows a yellow flower down=20 The yellow rose of Texas Had it petals knocked to ground. I know what that can be . . . . . .Was there when Opal came a calling. The sky and sea were angry, And they were fighting, blowing =96 brawling! Those folks will lick their wounds, and dry their tears, Then set their chins hard forward, And face an awesome future Where, they know, it=92s not straightforward. *Anything* includes what happens=20 Off this tiny little planet. This mote of dust we live on; All our eggs in just one basket! =20 With antimatter=92s spewing from the center of our galaxy; With neutron stars colliding, ripping time! Thank the *gift of self* that is allowing The alien view to buff and polish on your mind. Lehmberg@snowhill.com There is so much good to be hindered by so much bad, and all we have to do is cop =96 and yeah, it will cost. But you only have to pay it once, instead of paying an unending interest on a loan -- when you don=92t even know what the _loan_ is! That=92s what you do now. . .castles in the air =96 or so says the alien view. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake, and shattering Aristotle's crystal spheres on his way. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Mantell Case Update From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:06:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:11:08 -0400 Subject: Mantell Case Update MANTELL CASE UPDATE - Jerry Washington & Annie MacFie Franklin member Jodie Turner, Sr., has sent us some relevant new material published in Great Britain's UFO Magazine. Someone who was there when it happened has been found in England, and in his article, "The Fatal Flight of Thomas Mantell," Tony Dodd brings to light some important information. James F. Duesler, a former Captain in the U.S. Army Air Corps, married an Englishwoman and emigrated to the United Kingdom many years ago. He told Dodd that in 1948 he had been stationed at Godman Field (Ft. Knox) and served as an investigator of air crashes. An official statement issued by the Dept. of Defense bears his name, but Duesler insisted that the document is a falsehood because he never made any statement concerning the Mantell Crash to any authority. The elderly gentleman's story begins on the afternoon of January 7, 1948. He was called to the control tower at the airfield to observe "a strange, grey-looking object which was hovering some distance away." He described what he witnessed as shaped like an inverted ice cream cone and rotating, as evidenced by a vertical black line which seemed to be moving around it. The bottom of it looked red. Duesler then told of some Air National Guard planes in the vicinity that the controller radioed to investigate. These were the four P-51D Mustangs under the command of Capt. Mantell. One of the four continued on to their destination (Louisville) because of low fuel. Soon, a second of the Mustangs left the formation, its pilot being unsure of his location and worried about becoming lost. He was given permission to return, and one of the other pilots was ordered to guide him to their base. This explains why Mantell was left to pursue the unknown alone. At 15,000 feet he radioed Godman "that he had it in sight" and was closing in for a better look. This was to be the pilot's last transmission. To those in the control tower, the unidentified object was obscured by clouds. Apparently, concern for the Mustang in pursuit of it had not yet developed, for Duesler recalled, ".our interest in the object was lost, and I returned to my quarters." Although Mantell was dead in the wreckage of his aircraft within 45 minutes of beginning his chase, Duesler was unaware of any further developments until 1:00 AM when he was awakened to return to the tower. A glowing, orange, cigar-shaped UFO was being observed as it circled in the distance. Reports of a similarly described object were coming in from St. Louis and Wright-Patterson Air Base in Ohio. Duesler eventually went back to bed, but he would not rest for long. At 3:00 AM he was summoned to investigate a plane crash. When he and two other accident investigators arrived on the scene, 130 miles away, near Franklin, they were puzzled by what they found. Because of the weight of the engine, he maintained, the Mustang should have nose-dived straight into the ground; however, it appeared to have "belly-flopped" into a small clearing, doing no damage to the surrounding woods. Although the wings and tail had broken off, the fuselage sustained little damage, and no blood was evident in the cockpit. The pilot's body had already been taken away, but Duesler was informed by others at the scene that ".nowhere on the body had the skin been punctured or penetrated, yet all the bones had been crushed and pulverized." Duesler admitted he found the circumstances of the accident strange. "The damage pattern was not consistent with an aircraft of this type crashing into the ground," he was quoted as saying. "The official report said that Mantell had blacked out due to lack of oxygen. This may well have been the case, but the aircraft came down in a strange way." A reader, Graham Conway of British Columbia, wrote to the magazine to ask the obvious question: "Why such a lengthy delay [in sending Duesler to investigate twelve hours after the crash]? Were the `backroom boys' already at work fabricating a web of lies? It seems the truth will come out. It's only taken fifty years for this balloon story to deflate. I wonder how many more are yet to come?" Well said, Mr. Conway.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:24:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Komarek on Pflock vs. Corso > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:31:17 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Debunker Karl Pflock(ex CIA & DOD) Begins Attack On Corso >Kind of like saying if World War 2 hero and Congressional Medal of Honor >winner Audie Murphy was such a big deal, why did he leave the Army after >the war at only a "Captain". Actually it's not the same thing at all. First, Audie Murphy did not win the Congressional Medal of Honor because he did not serve in the Civil War. He won the Medal of Honor. But, he left the service soon after the war ended. Corso, on the other hand was a major in 1945, stayed in the service until the 1960s and was only promoted once to lieutenant colonel. It is an interesting question. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 23 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:43:42 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 23 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 23 June 8, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor TWO UFOLOGISTS FOUND DEAD IN NEW HAMPSHIRE On Tuesday, June 3, 1997, at about 3 p.m., investigating state police officers found the bodies of two prominent ufologists in a campground in northern New Hampshire (N.H.). The bodies of George W. Perry, 50, of East Providence, Rhode Island and Keith Begnoche, 22, of Blackstone, Massachusetts were found in a tent at the Dolly Copp Campground, located off Route 16 in Pinkham's Grant, N.H. Relatives of the dead men called the police on Monday after Perry and Begnoche failed to return from their weekend camping trip to Mount Washington. Perry, born in Pawtucket, R.I., was an electrical engineer and inventor and the owner of Alpha Scientific Associates. He was also assistant director of the Rhode Island chapter of MUFON. Begnoche was the son of Mr. and Mrs. Gabriel Begnoche of Blackstone, Mass. and was a freshman at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, Mass. According to Sgt. John K. Scarinza of the New Hampshire state police, investigating officers found a sales slip in the tent. As a result of this find, the "troopers surmised that the friends died either Saturday night (May 31) or Sunday morning (June 1)." "One of Perry's two sisters, Claire Bussiere, of Cumberland, R.I. said his death was puzzling because 'He was so methodical about things. Something just went wrong.'" "She speculated that he might have altered his routine after buying a new tent. Ordinarily, he would turn on a heater to remove the chill, then place the device outside. For some reason, the heater was still inside when the troopers arrived." "The device was tethered to a 20-pound propane tank. The controls were on and the tank was empty. Medical tests found carbon monoxide in both men's bodies. Apparently, the friends fell asleep before they were poisoned, police said." (See the Providence R.I. Journal-Bulletin for June 6, 1997, pages B1 and B4) Perry and Begnoche had told friends before the trip that they were going to Mount Washington (elevation 6,288 feet) to do some skywatching. "David Rannacher, a friend of Perry...said he doesn't think the two campers who set out on their camping trip Friday (May 30) ever made it to Mount Washington, although no one can say for sure." (Providence, R.I. Journal Bulletin, June 6, 1997, page B4) A memorial service for Perry was held at 2 p.m. today at the American Legion Hall, Post 311, in Seekonk, Mass. TRIANGULAR UFOs SIGHTED IN UPSTATE NEW YORK On Wednesday, May 28, 1997, Ed Granoski and a few friends were on the south shore of Oneida Lake in upstate New York, approximately 16 miles (25 kilometers) east of Syracuse when they spied strange lights in the sky. The sightings "started at 10:45 p.m.," Ed said. "Viewed for five minutes. All lights appeared amber/ orange similar to sodium vapor lights. We did not see any structures other than lights. The objects were approximately four to five miles (6 to 8 kilometers) across the lake from us and cast light reflections on the lake." Ed estimated that the lights were situated "over a small town of Jewel, N.Y. and Camden, N.Y. (population 2,667) on the north shore of Oneida Lake." The UFOs were "approximately 20 to 30 degrees on the horizon and what appeared to be 2,000 to 3,000 feet up." Grabbing a videocamera, Ed's group shot footage of the lights that night. "This continued for at least six different viewings at different time intervals until 12:30 a.m. (Thursday) May 29, 1997. Formations ranged from three (lights) in triangle, to four straight line, to five just scattered, to twelve...two to the left, five to the right on top and five just below them. No speed noted--objects were stationary, except for one sighting when four were present in a row. Two flew in from a higher altitude and then stopped and remained stationary. No approach or departure--lights appeared and disappeared usually in five to six minute intervals." "A neighbor stated that on May 26 and May 27 they viewed similar lights in the same area," Ed added, "Our sightings were viewed by 10 people we know of, some as far away as 12 miles on top of a hill." Local police attributed the strange amber/orange lights to "military parachute flares." (Email Interview) DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN GLENDALE, ARIZONA On Saturday, May 31, 1997, Rick C., age 49, was working in the backyard vegetable garden at his home in Glendale, Arizona (population 96,988) "when I heard a jet engine. We don't hear many this far north because the Sky Harbor Airport corridor is south, along the Salt River." "I saw the jet just north of my house when suddenly I caught a white oblong object directly overhead. It was at a very high altitude and was moving faster than anything I've ever seen. It was moving from east to west. There was no trail and no sound...and it was gone in less than three seconds." "I just stood there, unable to move, and whispered, 'What the hell was that!?' I looked at the sky for several minutes, hoping--and not hoping--to see another one," Rick reported. "What bothers me about the sighting is that it was at 11:28 a.m....and nobody else reported it. My wife and I watched ALL the news that evening. This is a big city (the Phoenix metro area) and someone else HAD to have seen that object besides me." (Email Interview) UFO SEEN NORTHWEST OF LAKE TAHOE On Saturday, May 24, 1997, at about 9:30 p.m., Peter H. and Chuck L. were "poking around in the hills between Kings Beach (California, on the north shore of Lake Tahoe) and Interstate (Highway) 80, close to (California) Highway 267" when they saw a mysterious light in the sky. "I was looking south by southeast towards the lake," Pete said. "The lights were at about a 45 to 60 degree angle from where I was." "There seemed to be some sort of hazy, amorphous cloud of light (barely noticeable if looked at directly) between the lights, as if the lights were surrounding something," Pete said, adding that the estimated speed of the UFO was "about 20 or 30 miles per hour as far as I could tell. That's hard to say, though. Have you ever seen a 747 landing? They look really slow because they are so large. They are really moving quite fast. There could have been the same effect here." Pete added that the lights were going "west by northwest" and described the condition of the sky as "clear." (Email Interview) DAYLIGHT DISC HOVERS OVER RUINS AT MESA VERDE On Monday, May 26, 1997, four adults from White Wind Ranch decided to spend their Memorial Day holiday on a tour of the Anasazi Indian ruins at Mesa Verde National Park, 45 miles (72 kilometers) west of Durango, Colorado. As their tour finished at 12:30 p.m., "my visiting sister and I noticed a stationary silver 'circle' in the sky hovering below a vapor trail," Mrs. W said, "This is what made it so noticeable." "It was quite high," she added, "The other two in our party were in a discussion so just my sister and I conferred on this. We observed it for about five minutes." "Last night, when I retrieved me email, I noticed that (radio talk show host) Art Bell and his wife gave an identical description of what we saw--same day, same time, same length of observation, two states away." (Email Interview) The night of May 26, Art Bell told his listeners that he and his wife, Rachel, had observed a daylight disc in the clear blue sky above their home in Pahrump, Nevada (population 1,000). Art and Rachel Bell were walking across the yard to close a gate when he noticed "two contrails in the sky." Bell estimated that the object was above 40,000 feet (12,121 meters) and moving from the east-southeast to the north-northwest. Their sighting took place at approximately 11:40 a.m. Retrieving a pair of powerful military surplus binoculars from the house, Bell reportedly spied what looked like "a round object, gleaming like a 100-watt bulb. The sun was behind us so it would not have been a reflection. The color was silver." The couple observed the UFO for about six minutes. (Many thanks to Steve Wilson for forwarding the Art Bell report.) CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SIGHTED OVER SOUTHERN ONTARIO On Thursday, May 22, 1997, at around 10:30 p.m., amateur astronomer Nicholas K. set up his Schmidt- Cassegrain telescope in his backyard in the town of Tillsonburg, Ontario (population 9,404). The town is 94 miles (150 kilometers) southwest of Toronto. Nick was looking around the sky "to find galaxies in the Big Dipper" when he spied "a giant white cloud and against it as a background saw a cigar-shaped object about the size of an aeroplane, black or brown in colour." The UFO was "unlit" (not illuminated in any way) and "it had four or five 'wings' at right angles to and along its body." The object passed right over the witness, who kept it in view for 30 to 40 seconds. "Flew at speed of plane," he reported, "No sound from the object. No idea of height but beneath cloud (under 12,000 feet--J.T.). It hadn't rained. Intermittent view of stars and planets. Close to full moon time. Didn't see craft through telescope." Nick's daughter "was with him at the time, but 'since it was near bed time, she didn't have her glasses on.'" According to UFO investigator Joe Daniels, the witness "drew a picture of the object and showed it to his colleagues at work. One said it was reminiscent of 'a picture of craft from '60s in Belgium.'" (Many thanks to Joe Daniels for sending us this news story.) ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED IN FRESNO, CALIFORNIA On Thursday, May 29, 1997, at around 10 p.m., Mrs. Liv S. went outside to check the stars from the patio of her home in Fresno, California (population 218,202). "It was a nice cool evening with a good breeze going," Liv reported. "I looked up and saw a clump of stars in the southeast portion of the sky. One of those stars was moving rather peculiarly. It traveled at differing speeds...across the sky heading northeast (towards Clovis--J.T.). I watched it intently, and saw it would go for a bit slowly...then stop for a sec, then do a jag and then pick up speed and zip a bit faster. That was no star. It was also unlike any satellite I'd ever seen before. With the weird way it would move in spurts. It continued on in a definite north-northeast direction" before finally disappearing on the horizon. (Many thanks to Steve Wilson for this news story.) MULTIPLE UFO SIGHTING IN ANASCO, PUERTO RICO According to the Puerto Rican newspaper El Vocero, "flying disks" were sighted by several eyewitnesses during late April 1997. People living in the Playa section of Anasco, P.R. "reported the presence of strange flying objects over Anasco's skies. Although some of the residents declined to be identified out of fear of being laughed at, they stated that the flying disks crossed the sky in a south-north direction." "A worker at a filling station located near State Highway #2 explained that one of the objects was circular in shape, extremely shiny, and moved at a prodigious rate of speed. 'It stood still for a moment, and six more lights came out of that thing. They flew off in different directions,' noted the witness." "Following this, he explained, the strange flying discs fell into formation and returned to the larger object. 'They flew two-by-two and reentered the large light,' he indicated. This version was confirmed by an Anasco farmer, who claimed having seen the strange lights as he traveled along State Highway #2 from Mayaguez to this community (Anasco)." (See the Puerto Rican newspaper El Vocero for April 26, 1997, "UFO Traffic Jam in Skies Over Anasco" by Julio Victor Ramirez. Many thanks to Scott Corrales for sending this newspaper article.) from the UFO Files... 1974: UFO IN THE HIMALAYAS On June 15, 1974, Tibetan mountain climber Keo Wha Unan was inspecting a rock formation on the upper slopes of Mount Dahjar in the Himalayas. As he emerged from a cave, he "spotted a silvery disc hovering behind a crest of high rocks." "It was windowless," Keo reported. "Shiny, silvery, spotless. There seemed to be no ridges or protrusions on the craft. It was hovering 1.3 meters (four feet) off the ground." "Gathered about the strange UFO were three humanoid figures," Keo said. "They seemed to be gathering snow and ice particles and well as rocks and putting these things in their ship." "Within five minutes after my initial sighting, they climbed aboard by means of a ladder-like device that descended from the center of the thing (saucer), and when they were inside, the machine started to hum," he added. "It rose several more feet into the air, and like a flash, shot straight up and disappeared behind a variety of thick snow clouds. It was the last I saw of it." (See UFO UPDATE #5, Winter 1980 issue, "The Bizarre Ancient Astronauts of Tibet" by Harry Hill, page 64) FUN UFO WEBSITES: For the latest on the new crop circles in the Netherlands and at Ceska Lipa in the Czech Republic, drop in at Circles Phenomenon Research (CPR) Canada's Website. They're at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 The Centre of ET Studies can be contacted at http://members.aol.com/asmorrison This site has a good selection of material on the Hudson Valley, New York UFO sightings. Don't forget our parent site, UFOINFO. You'll find them at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP are available for downloading at our site, which can be found at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: In last week's issue, we ran a story on the UFO hoax in Sligo, Eire. Just to clear up a matter of addresses, the Fortean researchers who exposed the hoax were Daev Walsh of Dublin, Eire and Joe Harte of Sligo Bay, Eire. For more on UFO sightings in Eire, check out Daev Walsh's great newsletter, Blather, at http://www.nur.ie/blather/issue/no3.html If you see a UFO story in your local newspaper, clip it out and send it to our snail-mail address: UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886 If you have a UFO to report, contact us online at Masinaigan@aol.com. That's it for this week. To our readers in the USA, don't forget to pick up a present for Dad this week. Father's Day is June 15. We'll be back again next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the news item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 'Fugo Balloon' Theory From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:15:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:52:01 -0400 Subject: 'Fugo Balloon' Theory All, I saw this while searching the www, and thought it might be interesting to some. It appears Jim Moseley doesn't think the Fugo explaination holds water either. See http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v42/ss950105.htm Regards, Scott K. Hale _______________________________________________ [For our Web-impaired subscribers - here's the excerpt from 'Saucer Smear - January 5, 1995 issue - ebk] The search for a complete solution to the Roswell Incident goes on, in spite of the Mogul balloon evidence. The December 1994 issue of a Canadian zine called "UFO Seeing Eye" has an interesting article that explores the theory that the Roswell UFO was a U.S. experimental craft with humanoid robots inside it. "Smear" looked into this; but it turns out that the author of the article was merely speculating on the basis of extremely sketchy information. Then, we have an interesting monograph by one Gene Maron called "Roswell - Another Perspective". Maron seriously advances the theory that a bomb was deliberately placed on a Mogul balloon for the purpose of blowing up a flying saucer, which it did. You see, the Air Force was embarrassed by the 1947 UFO flap, which indicated they did not have complete control of our airspace. So they blew, up creatures presumably from another world, for no better reason than this! After that one, we're almost ready to give serious consideration to John Keel's Fugo Balloon theory. But not quite.... Incidentally, the January 1995 issue of FATE Magazine contains an excellent article by our friend Antonio Huneeus about the recent Air Force report on Roswell. Antonio is an unbiased reporter after our own heart!...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Lloyd Jacobs <lkj@front.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 11:50:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:15:04 -0400 >Thinking more about this Strom Thurmond business.... >Here we have the very weird spectacle of a United States senator >writing the introduction to a book full of lurid UFO revelations, and >then repudiating it. >How could that happen? >Three explanations: [snip] There is a fourth. That Corso had originally planned to write a more mundane book, re-telling the many war heroics he was involved in. He probably approached Thurmond with some of this less extraordinary material and got him to write the foreward. Later, Corso decided to write a purely UFO book, and with foreward in hand, unwisely decided to use it. Remember, Corso's old too and might well have forgotten under what context the foreward was obtained. Alternatively, his ghost author W. J. Birnes might have received the foreward amongst all the other raw material and he, along with the publisher, had no knowledge of the circumstances re: the foreward. Lloyd Jacobs lkj@front.net ab922@torfree.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:40:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:11:39 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >>>From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] >>>Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:48:28 -0400 (EDT) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >> From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved >>I'll say one good thing for the Fugo balloon theory. The very tough >>parchment described by Marcel, which Brazel said was covered with Japanese >>or Chinese-like writing, did bear some resemblance to Fugo balloon material >>(though I think Marcel would easily have recognized the writing as Japanese). >>It obviously didn't come from the ridiculous fictional "parchment >>parachutes" of Mogul (they used small silk parachutes for the payload -- >>its marked on the diagrams). Of course, we still have no explanation for the >>rest of the materials, like the thin metal that couldn't be cut and >>returned to its original shape when crumpled. >When this Fugo thing popped up a couple of years ago, I learned quite a bit >about them. Those launched by Japan (9000 balloons carrying bombs) did >not contain any Japanese writings or markings. They were hoping to hide >the source of the balloons by keeping the Japanese writing off them. So, it >makes no difference whether or not Marcel could recognize Japanese >writing if Fugo is the answer. No Japanese on them. >KRandle Kevin, Were these the same balloons which the Japaneese used during WWII to launch balloon bombs in hopes of reaching the West Coast of the USA? I have heard stories since I was a child about these balloon bombs. Has someone just decided to take them now as a belated attempt to continue the confusion of Roswell? REgards, Mike Search for other documents from or mentioning: mchristo | krandle993 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 The Sunday Times [UK] Feature On Corso's Book From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:48:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:43:06 -0400 Subject: The Sunday Times [UK] Feature On Corso's Book The Sunday Times, 8 June 1997, p. 7 in the first section: IT CAME from outer space. Now the very first X File is being reopened as a new witness comes from out of the blue to testify that he saw the body of an alien recovered from the wreckage of a flying saucer in the New Mexico desert. The "Roswell" incident has fascinated UFO researchers for 50 years. Now Colonel Philip Corso, a retired American army officer, has written a book in which he becomes the highest-ranking person to give evidence that what crashed was not, as the Pentagon insisted, a high-altitude balloon, but an alien spacecraft. Britain's UFO spotters welcomed his testimony this week-end as fresh evidence that Roswell actually happened, after losing credibility when a film purporting to show the autopsy of the aliens was exposed by the Sunday Times as a hoax. Sceptics, though, claim it is Corso who is now full of hot air, pointing to the fact that he has kept quiet for half a century only to come forward to cash in on the golden anniversary of the incident which started the UFO craze. (snip)---(Recapitulation of the Roswell events and nothing but the well-known facts)--- In his book The Day After Roswell, Corso claims not only to have seen an alien who had been killed in a crash but also to have examined the Pentagon's secret files on the incident. Corso says that the Pentagon shipped the bodies of aliens to the Walter Reed hospital in Washington, where autopsies were performed. The space craft contained technology that baffled the Pentagon's best scientists, says Corso. He claims parts of the spacecraft were parcelled out to America's top defence companies and eventually led to the development of fibre optics, night-vision equipment, lasers, particle beams and integrated circuits. The "massive cover-up" of the Roswell incident was not so much to keep the secret of the aliens from the American people, he insists, but to allow defence contractors to develop the new technologies without them falling into the hands of the Russians. Ironically, the defence contractors were told that the material had been stolen from the Soviet Union. Corso said: "Nobody wanted to come in second place in the silent, unacknowledged alien-technology development race going on at the Pentagon as each service quietly pursued its version of a secret Roswell weapon." Corso had joined the army in 1942 and served in intelligence in Europe. Later, during the Korean War, he was on General Douglas MacArthur's intelligence staff and for four years served on President Dwight Eisenhower's national security staff. He claims that while he was based at Fort Riley in Kansas in July 1947, he became curious about a mysterious group of sealed boxes that had been stored in a secure area. One night, armed with a torch, he prised open one of the containers. Inside, he says, was an astonishing sight: "The contents, enclosed in a thick glass container, were submerged in a thick light blue liquid. At first I thought it was a dead child they were shipping somewhere, but this was no child." "It was a 4ft human-shaped figure with arms, bizarre-looking four-fingered hands - I didn't see a thumb - thin legs and feet, and an over-sized incandescent lightbulb-shaped head that looked like it was floating over a balloon gondola for a chin. I had the urge to touch the pale grey skin. But I couldn't tell whether it was skin because it also looked like a very thin one-piece head-to-toe fabric covering the creature's flesh." His account is similar to how others have previously imagined the Roswell "aliens". However, George Knapp, an investigative reporter and UFO expert, said: "Corso brings a level of credibility to these revelations that has been sorely lacking in the past. I strongly suggest that interested parties keep open minds about his claims." But Karl Pflock, a former assistant secretary of defence and a writer on UFOs who is working on his own account of Roswell, said: "The book is a cross between a 1940 pulp thriller and contemporary pop science fiction. It is one big outrageous joke that a retired officer could pull off this kind of thing. He offers no proof, no back-up and no documentation." Nevertheless, the book wil give weight to the claims of researchers when 10m people watch a live debate on UFOs on ITV later this month. Lionel Beer, founder and vice-president of the British UFO Research Association, said: "Ninety-five per cent of UFO researchers are now convinced the autopsy film was a put-up job. Clearly something happened at Roswell, but we may never know exactly what it was."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 8 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:39:14 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:54:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >> June 5, 1997 >> Thurmond Disputes Book on Purported Alien Spaceship >> By WILLIAM J. BROAD >>A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial >>power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being >>disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the >>Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. >Here we have the very weird spectacle of a United States senator >writing the introduction to a book full of lurid UFO revelations, and >then repudiating it. >How could that happen? >Greg Sandow Very easily, actually, as in the following imaginary conversation: Corso: Strom! Hey, it's Phil! Congratulations on your re-election! Thurmond: Thanks, ol' buddy! What can I do for you? Corso: Well, I'm writing my memoirs and wondered if you would be so kind as to contribute a Foreward? Thurmond: Sure, be glad to! I'll have my staff work something up. Who do you want me to send it to? Corso: So-and-so, my editor, at Pocket Books. Neither Thurmond nor his staff would need to see (let alone actually read) a manuscript or finished book under such circumstances, which are probably fairly common within both political and publishing circles. What are cover "blurbs" in the main, anyway, but mostlycomments made by friends of the author who haven't bothered to read the complete manuscript yet, either? To be fairer than may be required, the publisher may well have sent Thurmond's office a copy of the book for their perusal. It may be there still, buried under the mounds of mail each senator no doubt receives on an average day. Someone the senator once knew is writing his memoirs. Big deal. In a 60-year or so political career, how many of the senator's friends and acquaintances do you think have written books by now? Meanwhile, the publisher is ecstatic. Wow, an "endorsement" by Strom Thurmond! This certainly won't hinder sales. To be fairer than need be again, maybe the publicity department assumes that Thurmond really did thumb through the book and is signing off on its contents. Would you try to call the senator back and ask, uh, senator are you *sure* you want to say this? I mean there's an awful lot of weird UFO stories in there. Maybe you ought to read it again--and reconsider. Of course not. They're too busy peeing in their pants at their great good fortune. The only conspiracy or explanatione needed is one of the world's oldest -- sheer commercialism. I suspect that commercialism will be fundamental to explaining Mr. Corso's memoirs, too, once we've all had a chance to examine the book's contents. If you want to wonder about something, try to figure out what headquarters down at the UFO Cover Up office must be going through. Are they running through two-ended candles and their midnight oil supplies at a furious clip, working three shifts around the clock, tearing out their hair and mumbling to no one in particular, "How could this have *happened*? Smith, Corso's your guy, isn't he? How the hell come you didn't know he was writing his memoirs, for God's sakes!" "My guy? Jeez, chief, I thought he was *your* guy!" So the guys down at UFO Cover UP Central have done it again. They let down their guard for a minute and look what happens. Some insider defects and spills the UFO beans -- or at least his own personal marbles. No rest for the weary in this business, is there? No summer vacations this year, not with Roswell's fiftieth coming up. At least this'll give them something meaningful to do for the next couple of months. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:19:08 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:30:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Dear Greg & List: I may have been a bit too fair in my earlier assessment of the Corso book and its Thurmond foreward. I'd merely assumed that Corso had asked his former employer for a foreward, that he may or may not have forwarded Thurmond a copy of same, and that Thurmond simply put pen to paper without having read it. In which everyone would be relatively blameless all around, including the publisher. From a lengthy review of the book by Karl Pflock, which will appear in the July issue of the MUFON UFO Journal, it appears that Corso sent Thurmond a list of chapters and subjects for the book, titled at the time, "I Walked with Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence." According to Thurmond, there was absolutely no mention of the UFO subject anywhere therein. According to Pflock, this represents a classic "bait-and-switch." Assuming this turns out to be the case, what does that say for Corso's credibility, let alone his sense of personal integrity? The question that will next be on everyone's mind is: But how could Corso write such specific bull crap and get away with it? After all, isn't he who he says he is? Unlike some others on this list who have the ability to read minds, I don't know. The best I can do is point to another recent example of a military mind apparently driven mad or greedy by megalomania. First, read Jim Schnabel's "Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies," Dell, $5.99. Or, if you don't have the time, read my review in the April 1997 Journal. Next read David Morehouse's insider account of the same events, "Psychic Warrior." Now ask yourself which account is more credible and plausible, even though Morehouse was undoubtedly there at the time, whereas Schnabel wasn't. The claims that Corso makes are not only unbelievable on their face, they are completely unsubstantiated at the most basic levels in the bargain. And you thought, apart from his own statements, that he was finally going to include documented proof, didn't you? So it's over to the conspiracy theorists on this one. You can either continue to claim that the book and all of its contents must be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, because of the name on the cover; or, you can start trying to figure out which branch of the UFO cover up must have been behind its creation and publication, as its intention is obviously to further embarrass the field. At some point, however (or perhaps I kid myself), maybe some of you out there will eventually wake up, and will be embarrassed by what is being out in the name of ufology. You can be damn sure that the book publishers won't be, which is one reason why I don't expect my own book to ever find an American publisher. It's simply too damn boring compared to what's on the market. Or maybe that's responsible. Boring, responsible, same thing. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:18:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:08:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > From: RGates8254@aol.com > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:44:37 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > In a message dated 97-06-06 14:52:33 EDT, you write: > > Subj: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > > Date: 97-06-06 14:52:33 EDT > > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved < big snip > > Personally, If this is true, I want to see the project records > (documentation). I am open to new information as should all > impartial (non-believer type) investigators who are interested > in the truth of Roswell where ever that may lead us. > If the documentation should prove to be accurate perhaps > complete with photos, the believers are still going to rationalize > it away as a coverup, to hide the Mogel coverup, which was in > reality all a big coverup to hid the UFOs/ETs. > Watch and see. > Cheers, > Robert Robert, Since you are so eager to see the "documentation" and "facts" of this issue please explain to the readers of the list your gameplan for deciding on the veracity of these differing sets of information provided by the Air Force? Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | rgates8254 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Ruppelt's: The Report On Unidentified Flying From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 17:29:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:10:32 -0400 Subject: Ruppelt's: The Report On Unidentified Flying Many of the early UFO books do not have an index, among these is Edward Ruppelt's The Report On Unidentified Flying Objects. There were two editions of this book. Without a good index the utility of these books for research is significantly limited. Therefore I would like to know if any of the readers of this list: 1) Know of or have the text of Ruppelt's books in a electronic format. 2) Know of or have an index for Ruppelt's books in printed or electronic format. 3) Can suggest a software package for indexing the book (its about 240 pages). If someone hasn't already scanned the text in via OCR I have the capability of doing that myself, I would just prefer to bypass that step and concentrate on the indexing. Please contact me via email if you have any information that would be relevant to this project. Thanks, Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:21:41 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 02:53:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Dennis Stacy "outing" abductees >Hi Greg, Dennis, All, >I can't improve much on Gregs comments about Dennis' thoughtless >use of Linda's real name. Everytime someone does it they immediately >(try to) distance themselves from their unethical act by claiming >that Linda's real name is "already out there." That's just plain >bullsh*t, and doesn't justify the callous invasion and disregard >for Linda's (or anyone's) right to privacy and anonymity *or that of >their family members.* You and the Greys have a lot in common that >way. The degree of violation is equal. Sorry to disappoint John or anyone else, but I did not 'out' Linda or any other abductee. Once someone is outed, they're outed, period. If you want to call me insensitive for repeating the out, that's fine; I've already admitted as much and apologized if I caused Linda any additional suffering. But it's not the same thing as outing someone to begin with. Additionally, I don't *claim* that Linda's name is already out there--Linda's name is already is out there, period. To try to make it seem as if I am somehow personally to blame for same simply won't wash, folks. Moreover, how do you think *anyone* --outside of Budd and Linda--first learned of Linda's last name in the first place? Do you think that was *my* fault? As to your other statement, "The degree of violation is equal," well, what I can really say, except that if you don't see any difference between the two, then there's no help for you. >'Outing' an abductee (or anyone, about anything) against their will >or wishes is just about as low as a person can get. It clearly >demonstrates a complete lack of familiarity with journalistic ethics, >understanding, human compassion, respect, or even a rudimentary >awareness of the basic human rights of anyone reporting abduction >experiences, UFO sightings or ordinary run of the mill daily crimes >that they may have witnessed for that matter. Again, I did not out Linda. Had that been my intention, I would have used her real name in the American publication I mentioned earlier, and maybe thrown in her apartment location for good measure. And just out of curiousity, what suddenly makes you so familiar an authority on journalistic ethics? Is it ethical, for example, to continue insinuating that Perez de Cuellar was abducted, along with Linda, when he maintains, in no uncertain terms, that he wasn't? But perhaps I should be blamed for 'outing' de Cuellar as well, never mind that his name is also common knowledge--which none of you ever seems to complain about. Why is that? Because it makes the case so much more sensational? And how would we know who the Third Man supposedly was in the first place, if some someone hadn't "let" it be known? Do you think super-sleuth Stacy turned it up on his own? Thanks, but you honor me too much. Ditto for Linda's last name. >Because someone reports an abduction it does not automatically negate >any rights to privacy or anonymity that the individual may desire. >Nor does it make us fair game for every "self proclaimed" ufologist >or skeptic with a personal theory that blows down the pike. Nor did I ever imply or say that it did. But if you somehow think that my not mentioning Linda's last name would have changed anything in the world one whit--for better or worse--then you are even more credulous than I thought. See, for example, page 240 of "Alien Agenda" by Jim Marrs, currently in bookstores all across the country. For your information and edification, *all* ufolgists are self-proclaimed: that includes you, Budd, Linda, Greg, Ed Komarek, and, yes--me. How do you think you get to be one--by an act of Congress? >If you can 'out' Linda without a second thought about potential >negative consequences for her or her family you're just a sorry >excuse for a human being. Stick around Dennis, you may be able to >buy "compassion" in a drugstore one day and fill that gaping black >empty hole (where compassion should be!) Maybe the third time is a charm. I did *not* 'out' Linda. Linda is already outed and has been for some time. It's like being pregnant--you either are or you aren't. That's not an excuse on my part, but a fact of life. Grow up. Get over it. Go on. If you want to rage against someone, try the primary investigator in the case. If he'd never revealed Linda's name in the first place--wasn't he supposed to be the gatekeeper, Linda?--we still wouldn't know what it is and you wouldn't be moaning and groaning to me for having ever repeated it in whatever context, while going on as if I'd spilled some top secret beans and caused irreversible psychic damage in the process. Give me a break. The gaping black hole here is not where my heart is supposed to be, but in the space between your ears. And note that I didn't call you a sorry excuse for a human being. >Respond if you must, I just didn't want you to walk away unscathed >by your reprehensible act. There's absolutely NO EXCUSE for 'outing' >anyone! Yes, respond I must, I'm afraid. And for the fourth time now: I did not 'out' anyone. >"We ain't gonna take it, never have and never will." (The "WHO") It was also the Who who sang "Won't get fooled again!" >Just *my* oppinion and nothing more. That, and a buck and-a-half >will get me a subway ride! But,... you haven't heard the end of >this, I'm sure that Linda and others will have a few 'choice words' >for you as well. <G> >John Velez, (Human Being) I'm sure. Dennis Stacy Non-Human Being Scoundrel Professional Outer MUFON Dragoon Controller & Suppressor of Dissent Unethical Journalist (Did I leave anything out? Remember: all suggestions and epithets must fit on a regular size business card.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' [Fugo Balloons] From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:05:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' [Fugo Balloons] >Kevin, >Were these the same balloons which the Japaneese used during WWII to >launch balloon bombs in hopes of reaching the West Coast of the USA? >I have heard stories since I was a child about these balloon bombs. >Has someone just decided to take them now as a belated attempt to >continue the confusion of Roswell? >REgards, Mike Mike - This theory was advanced a number of years ago by John Keel. That's one of the reasons that I looked into it. BTW, the balloons did reach the United States and were found as far east as Michigan. In Oregon one killed six civilians. Japan had planned to use bacteria against the US if the the balloons reached the United States, but we did such a good job of hiding the fact the Japanese concluded that none of the bombs had reached our shores... What's this, Americas, thousands of them, privy to this secret managed to keep it? Nah. I don't believe that. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 McAndrew's new book via the Goverment Printing From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 19:53:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:07:36 -0400 Subject: McAndrew's new book via the Goverment Printing I just did a search for 'Roswell' at the GPO's search site and came back with this information. It appears the new report does deal with Mogul in some way: http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/prfgate.cgi PRF Online Via GPO Access Title: Roswell Report: Case Solved Stock Number: 008-070-00719-3 Availability: new req / not priced Description: Concerns an alleged crash of an unidentified flying object (UFO) in New Mexico in July 1947. Est. Delivery Date 05/20/97. Publisher: Defense Dept., Air Force Key Phrases: Roswell Incident, Unidentified Flying Objects, Case Solved, Air Force, Balloon Research, Schiff, Steven H., Project Mogul Quantity Price: discount Subject Bibliography: 131IN Status date: 03-19-97 Unit: each Unit (non-U.S.): each
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 United Kingdom UFO Network - update From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:16:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:06:42 -0400 Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network - update UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Hello everyone, This short mail is just to explain a few problems we have been having. Our apologies to those of you who have attempted to download the Real Audio files as mentioned in the latest issue {75} and also to those of you who have tried to connect to the #UFO irc channel. The server that the files are stored on is currently down. The latest news that we have is that things should be back to normal on Thursday 12th June. A short mail will be distributed when the server is back up and running. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Best wishes Dave -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: UFO UpDate: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 23:30:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:09:08 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > The following is posted with the permission of > its author, Michael Lindemann. > From: CNINews1@aol.com > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:23:49 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 > ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== > CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6, Part 1 -- June 1, 1997 > Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence > ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== > ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== > DETAILS OF STEVEN GREER'S WASHINGTON DC BRIEFINGS > Impressive Program Marred by Blatant Document Ripoff > By Michael Lindemann > Many details of the April 9-10 Washington DC "closed briefing on UFOs and > Extraterrestrial Intelligence" hosted by Dr. Steven Greer's Project Starlight > Coalition for members of Congress and invited press have recently been > disclosed to CNI News. A participant at the briefings, who has requested > anonymity, sent CNI News a complete set of briefing documents as well as a > videotape of the closed press briefing and the videotape titled "CSETI Video > and Photographic Evidence of UFOs, 1997." > From these materials it would be possible to disclose to our readers the > names of many key UFO witnesses as well as the names of many Congressional > personnel who attended the events. It is precisely this information which > Greer and his organization have sought to keep confidential, on the theory > that only such confidentiality at this stage will preserve the fragile but > growing trust needed to bring witnesses and government leaders together on > this highly sensitive subject. I have been reading about this "hearing" for some weeks now. We have been getting snippets of information , doled out to us like children waiting for a treat. By whom I ask. Some guy named Dr. Greer who along with some, so far fictional senate hearing, are endeavouring to get to the bottom of the UFO phenomena. Oh yeah, these are closed hearings. Why? The witnesses names are witheld to protect their privacy. Why? And this is a senate hearing. Where is the press on this? Are they so jaded these days that they don't take senate hearings seriously? If this hearing is indeed serious, the last thing that should be allowed is secrecy. We've had enough of that in this field. We need no more from those who claim to be involved in this field. The whole thing appears to be a damn piece of fiction to me. Why are we wasting time on it. Like the man said..."Show me the money!!" Let's get away from this fairy tale and on to things more immediate. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 09 Jun 97 03:04:20 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:25:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:19:08 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Dennis, >>Assuming this turns out to be the case, what does that say for Corso's >>credibility, let alone his sense of personal integrity? Wait!! What does it say for Thurmond's credibility first and foremost. Afterall he claims knowing or unknowing, that Corso is credible and upstanding. Think about that! What's really going on here, Dennis? (You can say "I dunno", no shame in that, I do it all the time. <g>) Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:42:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:21:51 -0400 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update June 7, 1997 __________________________ In this update: "Harlequin Triangle" Formation in Wiltshire, England Strange "Lake Glyphs" in Arizona, USA Geometric Analysis of First 1997 Formations by Gerald Hawkins and Freddy Silva 1997 BLT Crop Sampling Protocol Now Posted For further details on these and previous news items, please see the CPR-Canada web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Keep checking for regular updates and news on 1997 Canadian circle formations. __________________________ Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 06:58:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:26:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:11:39 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >When this Fugo thing popped up a couple of years ago, I learned quite a bit >about them. Those launched by Japan (9000 balloons carrying bombs) did >not contain any Japanese writings or markings. They were hoping to hide >the source of the balloons by keeping the Japanese writing off them. So, it >makes no difference whether or not Marcel could recognize Japanese >writing if Fugo is the answer. No Japanese on them. >KRandle Is this alturnative explanation being written up in an official statement, or is it being proposed as a result of "private" research? I ask because both Fugo Balloons and the Horton Brothers are mentioned in the July issue of Popular Mechanics, which has learned that articles on Roswell (and Area 51) sell magazines. However, there is also the new book by James McAndrew that claims to have "solved" the mystery surrounding Roswell, and it wouldn't surprise me to see this explanation come from him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 01:50:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:23:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:15:04 -0400 >Thinking more about this Strom Thurmond business.... >> From: RSchatte@aol.com >> Date: Tu, 5 Jun 1997 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net, CNINews1@aol.com >> Subject: NEW York Times >> June 5, 1997 >> Thurmond Disputes Book on Purported Alien Spaceship >> By WILLIAM J. BROAD >>A new book contending that the nation's military and industrial >>power largely derive from a crashed alien spaceship is being >>disparaged by Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the >>Senate Armed Services Committee, who wrote the book's foreword. >Here we have the very weird spectacle of a United States senator >writing the introduction to a book full of lurid UFO revelations, and >then repudiating it. >How could that happen? >Three explanations: (snip) >3. Thurmond, 94 years old, is out of it, and didn't know what he was >doing. >Of the three possible explanations, this one makes the most sense. In >fact, it's the only one that makes _any_ sense. How the thing >happened, I don't have a clue. Did Corso tell Thurmond what the book >was about, and Thurmond somehow didn't get it? Did Corso start to >tell Thurmond, and Thurmond -- who was busy or distracted that day -- >say something like "That's all right, boy, y'all just tell me what >y'all want me to write, and ah'll write it for you"? >Who knows? If, let's say, Dianne Feinstein or Sam Nunn or John Glenn >or some other senator who's clearly on top of things had been >involved, we'd really have a mystery. But since it's Thurmond...I'm >betting he's just too out of it to know what's going on. >Greg Sandow ============================ Hi Errol, Greg, All, The very best/funniest comedy is always rooted solidly in reality or truth. This, (Gregs, "Strom Thurmond theory") is some of the funniest material I've read in a good while. I fell off my toadstool roaring! It's funny because it's probably true. Greg, if you can add another three minutes of 'Strom' material to what you've already got here,...I'll make you a 'stand up star' over night! Screw ufology, you've got a career in comedy Baby, and (that's) just as important (if not more so) a contribution to humanity. <G> Thanx for the yux! John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** * Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: With or without Greer, do something ! From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:12:06 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:28:58 -0400 Subject: Re: With or without Greer, do something ! >From: SGBList2@aol.com >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:55:25 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: With or without Greer, do something ! >In a message dated 97-06-04 19:47:55 EDT, you write: >> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:26:23 GMT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> >> Subject: With or without Greer, do something ! (snip) >> I'm adding another point to the debate. >> My point is : you disagree with Greer ? You think >> he's not the right guy ? Very good, respectful position. >> I sincerely suggest you get out of your armchairs and >> do something yourselves, concretely, to end this cover-up. >> (snip) >> I'm not an ufologist, just a concerned citizen who >> runs a UFO page and who believes it's more than time for a >> UFO/ET disclosure. >> (snip) >> Best Regards, >Well stated Mr. Andrade! >Ten thousand more "concerned citizens" such as yourself and the >breach of the social contract embedded in the core issues of >ufology will at last be closed. I wouldn't be so pessimistic, Mr. Bassett. Of course the ideal scenario would be that of a large group of major researchers working together, concretely, taking actions against this cover-up. Nobody is responsible for other people's actions, but you are responsible for *your* own acts and *omissions*. If your also against this cover-up, it's just not fair to criticize the ones who kick the ball, without taking an action yourselves, to end it, so as your actions can also be evaluated (and criticized). >However, you may need to be patient with the "ufologists". (snip) > Many are so entrenched with >internal squabbles they have failed to notice that other members >of the activist wing are actually engaging the powers that be - >not in battle, but in dialogue. I don't consider this way : the expression you used, 'activist wing', is merely a label. Everybody who disagrees with this cover-up (no matter whether they diverge on other issues or not) can help on this disclosure process, in many levels, working either together or separatedly. * The only requirement is his/her will, and perseverance, obstinacy and action producing results.* A good example of strongly productive action, I repeat, is to gather a group of military witnesses to high level UFO/ET events (e.g. crashes, alien bodies, autopsies, reverse engineering, etc.), and just introduce them to the public in a private hearing. It doesn't take a lot of money. It's just a question of taking the right actions with the right people, at the right time. > >Here's hoping they turn outward soon. All of them have earned >the right to be "on the Missouri" when the signing of documents >signifying the transition to formal public involvement in the >unfolding paradigm takes place. > >Steve Bassett >ParadigmRG@aol.com Yes, Steve, but this unfolding paradigm we must and have to create with our acts, because it won't fall from the sky. Destiny is not written yet, we write it. Sincerely, *----------------------------------------------* | | | Paulo H. Andrade - pha0801@ibm.net | | http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4025/ | | "Varginha Case - The Whole Story" webmaster | | | *----------------------------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: pha0801 | sgblist2 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Alfred's Odd Ode #144 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:25:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:36:31 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #144 Apology to MW #144 (For June 9, 1997) So you want to know what=92s wrong with our kids? Why they do so bad in school? Why perform so weak in math and science? Why not learn that golden rule! So you want to know where blame lies? Why their teacher is a gun? Why their math books are as locker fodder? Wayward students on the run! So then screech a thoughtless message of a crass return to *basics*. "It=92s reading, writing, =91rithmatic that=92s needed." "Let=92s teach the *fundamental* bones of learning"! When what they really mean is masked, and unentreated! Those *basics* that are inferred were antisocial,=20 As they left too many out in nature=92s cold. We made up smart minds to be more inclusive. It=92s the follow through we lack, as we=92re not bold. We departed from those *basics* for a pretty damn good reason. They didn=92t meet the needs of present time! They wallowed in a past of the way things _never_ were, When the future=92s where we finish _all_ our rhyme. This is what our watchers see from interstellar dust clouds. This comprises hiding screens, and blinds. This is why they hover just outside your line of vision. This is where they hide inside your mind. We dither so protectively when the kids don=92t want, or need it. We fill their heads with BULLSHIT we don=92t mean. We teach them in their crass rooms to achieve a *standard* living, But then pump their heads with legend, myth, and dream. The girls can have their Barbi, and the boys their GI Joe. The agenda has its hand around your wallet. Their callous flow=92s your crippling ebb; it=92s made to order in your head, Regardless what they say, or do, or call it. We heroize our nation in the halls of early learning, With college folks who didn=92t pay attention. When your country right or wrong=92s make you happy -- feeling strong, Then you sew the seeds of trust on foul pretension. And the children are not fooled, as they weather your restriction. They know that party line is cold convenience. Articulation=92s not so strong, but the fact=92s string rage along, School=92s a drag that most have known as inconvenient. Like its built to drive one off -- to keep one from the top Of an actualizing, self affirming place. The rich can get the point, while the poor are out of joint, And the rich keep getting richer with efficiency, and grace. And when you read the secret history, the one that really happened, You discover why they make it from whole cloth. There is little one may point at, that one could call a con-grat, We were nasty in success, we ate the flesh of brother=92s broth! And the kids can sense all of your cognitive dissonance. They can feel the places you don=92t want to go. They are all understanding that something is missing They lack the expression -- so they tell you, you blow! And the watchers in the corners are in baffled disbelief! They can understand our thinking, not a bit! Why are we so hateful when we should all be most grateful! Why is it the least are taking pain, and getting shit? They=92re the one that=92s heating all the water that we use! They=92re the ones that nail on your roof! They=92re the one=92s hard scratching in the dirt of garbage packing, While you remain unbothered, and aloof. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Again, respect for the people who build and maintain your world. The least are best typified in that Mel Gibson vehicle "Beyond Thunderdome," as the bi-human entity "Master Blaster." Recall what happened when he didn=92t pick up the garbage for a few days . . . your whitebread world comes to the proverbial grinding halt, and you reveal yourself as sharp as a sack of wet mice. Be nice to the garbage man, he keeps you . . . uncluttered <g>and alive. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. The children were as little adults in Monk Bruno's time, and suffered like them -- as they do now. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:44:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:57:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:18:36 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' [text deleted] >Since you are so eager to see the "documentation" and "facts" of this >issue please explain to the readers of the list your gameplan for >deciding on the veracity of these differing sets of information provided >by the Air Force? > >Gary This is assuming that there is a "veracity" problem to be resolved. Both theories have apparently been developed from previously classified material, but I have yet to see any real "proof" regarding what happened in Roswell during July 1947. Some of the new information is included in July 1997 Popular Mechanics issue, which has a cover story on the Roswell crash. It is surprising to note that much of this theory is based on information supplied by a witness whose veracity had previously been questioned. This is apparently also the thrust of "The Roswell Report : Case Solved" by James McAndrew. Information on Amazon.com shows that it is: >Hardcover >List: $52.00 -- Amazon.com Price: $52.00 >Published by Government Printing Office >Publication date: April 1997 >ISBN: 9997911156 It should be noted that McAndrew is not identified at Amazon.com as an Air Force officer, and there is no visable link between this book and the 1994 Air Force report on Roswell, which had also been researched and written (at least in part) by McAndrew. This is the first time that I've seen a GPO book sold in this manner, and I would note that the ISBN number that is listed above has no meaning as far as the GPO is concerned. A call to the GPO last week provided little information, except for the fact that they hoped the book would be available this week. A price of $52.00 has apparently been assigned, which is also more than they knew last week. We're beginning to see the trickle of information about this theory, and it will have to be carefully analyzed. But the question of whether it proves anything will have to wait until the documentary evidence can be checked. The Air Force Report, for all its effort, really failed to provide conclusive proof of anything. I would suggest that this new "FUGO" theory
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 9 Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #24 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:45:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:44:46 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #24 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #24 Members = 1424 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Monday 9th June 1997. **************************************** old URL for '97 arrivals - no good now - delete this BookMark: http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/1997.html new, good one for 1997 Arrivals: http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Deleted:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/second.html This page nows appears on:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/connect.html ***************************************** A video of the Harlequin Triangle A 30 second video clip of the latest formation at Winterbourne Bassett. Experience it!! **************************************** The Spiral Issue No 19. June 1997. OUT NOW! *************************************** Wiltshire Crop Circle Study Group Present. Crop Formation Fun Weekend. Coronation Hall, Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. **************************************** Exploring a Crop Circle Hologram A talk and Slide Presentation By Ed Sherwood Plenty of dates to choose from *************************************** All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:14:24 -0400 Subject: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes By Ed Komarek 6/9/97 Those of us who have been in the UFO field and have taken the time to become well informed citizens realize that we are in a political battle for the truth. We recognize that some individuals are not the honest UFO researchers and investigators that they profess to be, that they are infiltrators to sabotage efforts to end the UFO/ET coverup. Why should this be a surprising claim on my part when books like Clear Intent and Above Top Secret clearly show that the first major UFO organization NICAP was loaded with CIA and other intelligence operatives. After NICAP was destroyed for its political activities toward full and open hearings in Congress the UFO community was clearly manipulated away from political action. Should we not consider that the infiltration and manipulation is even more vigiorious and extensive than before. Who are our present infiltrators parading as friends while they undermine the struggle for the truth. Some have intelligence backgrounds with training in intelligence and counter intelligence techniques.( Debunker Kal Korff admits as much, Deuley says he has had even taught security procedures, Karl Pflock with his background in the DOD and CIA, Richard Hall whose CIA connections reach back to CIA documents in the fifties) All these men are very suspect. Over the years I have been watching with increasing concern the activities of Tom Deuley( NSA Ret. and for all practical purposes second in command in MUFON and on the board of both MUFON and FUFOR) and the two hatchet men Dennis Stacy (MUFON Journal Editor) and Richard Hall Chairman of FUFOR. (Please note I have no problems with the MUFON rank and file just a couple of those in command positions) Deuley now has maneuvered himself into the job of administrator which seems to be the same as chairman of the Coalition for hearings in Congress. I have been watching patterns develop over the years that make me think that both Deuley and Stacy and Hall are not on the side of the people. I believe they have hidden and manipulative agendas. The roots of the attacks on Greer and others involved in UFO political actions go way back. A number of years ago Stacy allow both Karl Pflock and Fred Whiting to attack ORTKs political activities in the MUFON Journal. Much more space was given to this attack than allowed for our defense. Larry Bryant submitted a well written article in our defense that would have evened the score. Stacy failed to allow the publication. I contacted Stacy and received a contentious and insulting letter. ORTK was also attacked in UFO magazine by the Chairman of FUFOR, Richard Hall, with a similar hatchet job like Pflocks and Whitings. Then surprise surprise, MUFON came out against these political activities. (Just who make this decision?) I now think that Deuley was the secret mastermind behind this attack and Hall and Stacy were simply fronting for him. Others that got a lot of media attention from the mainstream press were similarly targeted and unfairly attacked.(Maybe the Hopkins folks have a few words to say on this too.) It seems to me that the MUFON Journal is rapidly becoming a debunking Journal. See Kent Jeffery's honest change of heart right at the Roswell 50th and when 20,000+ signatures have been collected, in the next issue. Stacy gives of all people Jim Moesley a prepublication copy. Stacy then says he is going to publish a attack on Corso by Karl Pflock in the issue after that. Expect Stacy to publish a attack on Greer soon thereafter. Now, are these same individuals, Deuley, Stacy and Hall manipulating the Coalition to create a containment operation in order to sabotage hearings in Congress? Maybe make Greer into being the bad guy? Okay here are a few pieces of the puzzle I have collected so far. A post comes from a address on the internet called MUFON HQ that attacks Greer right after his meetings and which seems to have come from the pen of no other than Thomas Deuley. Thomas Deuley contacts me using a email address with his name in it to try to undermine Bob Dean and his activities toward hearings in Congress. I talk to Steven Greer and Greer tells me that when he Greer started getting involved pushing for hearings, Deuley told him that the military witnesses that came forward were not to be believed not one. What the hell is going on here. The very man that is heading up the Coalition for hearings in Congress and second in command at MUFON is going around in secret trying to undermine both Greer and Dean. The very same people that went after ORTK and its political activities are now attacking Greer and Dean! Another defining feature will be the attacks on Corso who has high and credible credentials. On top of this he is going mainsrean in the press so he presents a real threat to the coverup. Just watch the character attacks on this man in the open and in secret for more clues to who our foes really are. (Please note that debunker Karl Pflock was in the London Times debunking Corso and gave his DOD background but not his CIA background) All this is not going to be pretty and many people dislike political fighting and confrontation, but by golly we have got to get used to it if we are going to end the coverup. If others just sit back and complain and criticize people like myself for slinging mud and being contentious then we will never regain the freedom we have lost to the UFO/ET coverup. Because there are those that wish to limit our precious liberties and freedoms creating tyranny, we must fight back in our own defense no matter how uncomfortable and distressing it is. Far better to fight a political fight now than a bloody war later. The question we must all ask ourselves is do we really want to end the coverup and if we do, do we have the collective backbone to fight the political battle to get the truth out to the public? Astronaut Mitchell called us real patriots. Well, real patriots don't whine and complain they act and act decisively. Real patriots fight real battles even when others call them fools. I have been ridiculed all my life because of my interest in the UFO/ET subject and my attempts to get the truth out to the public. I don't intend to stop now. There is no more precious a freedom than freedom of information. Information is the life blood of the free man. Freedom of Information must be fought for just like any other right, nobody will serve it up to us on a silver platter. -------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter. --------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: May 20th edition of Saucer Smear From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:07:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:24:09 -0400 Subject: Re: May 20th edition of Saucer Smear Apologies if this has been already been posted here. I checked my incoming folder, but didn't see it listed. I always get a kick out of reading Moseley's publication. No cow is too sacred or spared his rapier-like wit. <g> Don ======================================== http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v44/ss970520.htm [Saucer Smear] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- OFFICIAL PUBLICATION OF THE SAUCER & UNEXPLAINED CELESTIAL EVENTS RESEARCH SOCIETY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDITOR AND STILL NON-SCHEDULED MAILING ADDRESS: SUPREME COMMANDER: NEWSLETTER P. 0. Box 1709 James W. Moseley Volume 44, No. 5 Key West, FL 33041 May 20th, 1997 [Image] National UFO Conference to be held in September![Image] * "Smear" Editor Hops Across the "Pond" To London's Fourth Annual "Unconvention" * Possible Interplanetary Spaceship In Sky Near Key West, Florida! * Tidbits of Trash * Interplanetary Love, American Style: * Ye Olde Book Bag: * Letters to Ye Olde Editor: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "SMEAR" EDITOR HOPS ACROSS THE "POND" TO LONDON'S FOURTH ANNUAL "UNCONVENTION": On the weekend of April 19th & 20th, your humble editor attended the 4th annual "Unconvention", held at the Institute of Education in downtown London, England. The reason for our invitation was apparently "50 years of Ufology", as no one can deny that "Saucer Smear", under one title or another, has been around for most of those fifty years! The event was sponsored by England's Fortean Times, a beautifully printed 64-page monthly newsstand magazine edited by Bob Rickard and Paul Sieveking. Circulation is about 60,000 - far higher than any similar magazine on either side of the "Pond"' The other ufological speakers at the UnConvention were Phil Klass of CSlCOP; American science writer Patrick Huyghe; British researcher Hilary Evans; prolific UFO author Jenny Randles; and (ugh!) abduction researcher Budd Hopkins. Each gave an individual lecture, and then on Sunday afternoon, all were invited to participate in a UFO panel discussion. Unfortunately, Budd Hopkins left a written message explaining why he is unwilling to ever appear in public with Phil Klass, so Hopkins did not appear. In the top left photo, below, we see a styrofoam alien head (similar to the head seen in the notorious alien autopsy video), which was placed in the empty seat next to Klass. This was done in full view of hundreds of people in the live audience, and naturally was the cause of some highly refined chuckling. Ian Simmons, who also gave a lecture on circus freaks, was the moderator of the UFO panel. At the end of it, he gave a blistering condemnation of Hopkins' antics, which brought cheers from the audience. We don't think Hopkins will sell many copies of "Witnessed" (the Linda Napolitano abduction story) in England! The top right photo shows Phil Klass kissing the alien head, in the press room, following the panel discussion. Note that he wears a button with "abductee" written on it. Klass was a hit at the UnConvention, but in our presentation we tried to distance ourselves from his totally negative viewpoint. We spoke concerning half a dozen or so unexplainable experiences we have had over the years, both in the UFO and psychic fields. We then went to questions but time ran out, and we did not have the chance to lambast all of the American researchers who deserve it! Maybe next time. In the bottom left photo, we see (left to right) MUFON's Dennis Stacy (who was not on the program this year) and Hilary Evans. They just happen to be co-editors of a brand new anthology published by Fortean Times and called "UFO - 1947-1997 - Fifty Years of Flying Saucers", which contains a contribution by your "Smear" editor. (More details about this book further along in this issue.) The bottom right photo shows Bob Rickard of Fortean Times, posing under a saucer-shaped UFO. In an Internet text written just after the close of the UnConvention, Rickard wrote: "...Phil Klass, the great ogre of ufology, came across as a charming and witty man, and we enjoyed his company. Jim Moseley was a real cracker too..." Now, if we only knew what "cracker" means in British slang! We should emphasize that most of the speakers at the UnConvention delved into topics other than flying saucers, as Fortean research includes just about everything & anything that is peculiar. Among the topics: The Indian Rope Trick; crop circles; The Creeping Coffins of Barbados; lake monsters; the Green Children of Woolpet (a weird 12th century chronicle); Satanic abuse cults; Remote Viewing; Who Really Wrote Shakespeare `s Plays & Poems?; Earth Lights; Haunted Heads and Screaming Sculls; Cold Fusion; and Conspiracies. We heard few of the lectures other than our own, as it was just too cozy to sit in the spacious press room, where one could drink endless coffee, smoke cigarettes, and give interviews to the many real and semi-real press representatives who were there. On the Thursday before the UnConvention, Patrick Huyghe and your "Smear" editor sat in one London location all day and did nearly twenty radio interviews that had been set up for us by the Fortean Times' publicist. One interview had to be canceled at the last minute because the IRA had just set off a bomb in the town (Leeds) where the radio station was located! All in all, the UnConvention was a well-attended (about 1500 people) and extremely well organized event. Our compliments to the chefs! [Image] Following the UnConvention, we spent three days sightseeing in southern England, hosted by Paul Fuller, editor of "The Crop Watcher" and co-author with Jenny Randles of a 1990 book entitled "Crop Circles - A Mystery Solved". Our sincere thanks to Paul Fuller for his kind hospitality! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- POSSIBLE INTERPLANETARY SPACESHIP IN SKY NEAR KEY WEST, FLORIDA! On April 15th, a mysterious unidentified object was seen in broad daylight making strange maneuvers in the sky over Big Coppitt Key, just a few miles from your editor's home in Key West. It was observed by several people driving on U.S. Route One, and was photographed for our local newspaper. The picture, too faint to reproduce here, shows a round object in the sky; but "experts" at the newspaper claimed the blue dot on the film is "most likely a film defect". But how can a film defect be seen in the sky, we wonder!? Several years ago, your "Smear" editor was appointed by MUFON to be their Section Director for Monroe County, Florida, where Key West is located. We made a vow to ourselves that during our tenure in this high post, the Monroe County skies would be safe from all interplanetary intruders - and as far as we know, this was the case. Then we were fired from our high post by the Florida State Director, for not doing enough to help their Cause. Now that we are merely a "Journal Subscriber" (J.S.) in MUFON, we no longer have any obligation to keep the skies here safe from invasion, and thus you really don't know what terrible things may appear in the Monroe County skies in the future! (Shudder!!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Image] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIDBITS OF TRASH * Again we hear, as previously reported in "Smear", that pilot Kent Jeffrey, author of the "Roswell Declaration", has changed his opinion completely and now believes that the Roswell Incident was definitely not an interplanetary event. His change of heart will be described in detail in a future issue of the MUFON Journal... * We knew this would be an outstanding issue of "Smear" when we came across the story of the levitating frog! Ain't science grand!? In mid-April, British and Dutch scientists succeeded in floating a small frog in midair, by using a magnetic field a million times stronger than that of the Earth. Plants, grasshoppers and fish have also been made to float, and these scientists say it is possible with a human being, as well. Anti gravity is finally upon us. Wheee!... * The latest issue (#7) of Greg Bishop's zine "The Excluded Middle" has some really good stuff in it, including a mostly favorable review of the Gray Barker documentary "Whispers from Space". There is also a fascinating article about UMMO. UMMO was the longest, most complex hoax in UFO history, centering in Spain and France in the 1960s and 1970s. We have long been intrigued with this case, and we urge you to send for this zine at: P.O. Box 481077, Los Angeles, Ca. 90048... * The Heaven's Gate cult mass suicide apparently has put a damper on plans for the Roswell (N.M.) Festival, planned for the first week of July. An all-night rock concert and a two-hour television special are now both in doubt, due to the fact that potential sponsors incorrectly connect the cult suicides with UFO study in general. The Festival will go right on, however, and your humble "Smear" editor will be there!... * Perhaps it was the shadow of Heaven's Gate that also put a damper on Dr. Steven Greer's Washington, D.C. conclave, last April 9th & 10th, in which he attempted to present to the carefully-screened press a parade of pro-UFO witnesses, in hopes of bringing about Congressional hearings on the subject. By "carefully-screened", we refer to the fact that Phil Klass, whose press credentials are far more authentic than most peoples', was physically barred from the press conference. What madness on the part of Greer and his followers! As if a hostile word from Klass could send our interplanetary visitors scurrying back to their home planet! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERPLANETARY LOVE, AMERICAN STYLE: At the right you see a black & white drawing by artist and [Image] abductee/interplanetary lover David Huggins. In our March 20th issue, we tried to reproduce a Huggins painting that did not have enough contrast for proper photo offset reproduction. This time, the basic subject of the drawing is abundantly clear, we feel. In fact, perhaps children under 40 years of age should be warned against reading this issue of "Smear". Regarding the drawing, Huggins writes: "...While I was in the country this woman showed up (at night). I was not totally `out'. I was allowed some control in the situation. We made love. (We) heated up the bed a few degrees. I remember feeling my climax. After we were finished, we stood looking at each other. She was at least a head taller than me... A month and a half went by and one night there was the woman and she was holding a baby!..." Huggins has several showings of his interplanetary paintings scheduled during the next few months. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- YE OLDE BOOK BAG: * In this the Year of the Saucer, nearly everyone in the Field has a book just out or a book about to come out. Who is going to read all this stuff, we ask! Our own book, co-authored with Karl Pflock, is called "Shockingly Close to the Truth!", and should be available some time early next year (hopefully). In the meanwhile, there is the new book already referred to, "UFO - 1947-1997 - Fifty Years of Flying Saucers", with contributions by James Moseley; Karl Pflock; Jerome Clark; Michael Swords; Jacques Vallee; John Rimmer of England's "Magonia" magazine; Raymond Fowler; Richard Haines; Patrick Huyghe; (ugh!) Richard Hall; Robert Durant; Jenny Randles; Hilary Evans; and several others. Just published by John Brown Publishing Ltd., London... * Next, "The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials - A Complete Overview of * Next, "The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials - A Complete Overview of [Image] Alien Lifeforms - Based on Actual Accounts and Sightings". Written by science writer Patrick Huyghe and published by Avon Books (see illustration at the left). Says Huyghe, "I have done the same thing for aliens as other people have done for birds." Right On!... * Next, Kal K. Korff comes forth with another book from Prometheus Books, the publishing arm of the dreaded CSICOP organization. (Last year they published Korff's expose on contactee Billy Meier.) This new tome by Korff is called "The Roswell UFO Crash - What They Don't Want You to Know". It will be followed later this year by a somewhat similar anti-Roswell book by Phil Klass, from the same publisher. * Finally, a re-issue of Gray Barker's 1956 classic "They Know Too Much Abcut Flying Saucers", with an insipid new introducticn by John Keel. Of ccurse, your humble "Smear" editor is one of the main characters in this fascinating semi-fictional book, and we urge you all to read it! Published by IllumiNet Press, P.O. Box 2808, Lilburn, Ga. 30226... There are still more new UFO & related books here at our Headquarters, but no more Space to write about them till next time! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- LETTERS TO YE OLDE EDITOR: * KAL K. KORFF writes as follows: Just a short note to share a few things with you: I have a new book that just came out called "The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know" and it represents 16 years worth of research. For the first time ever the true nature of what was recovered near Roswell is DEFINITIVELY proven, the book is loaded with "smoking guns." The book breaks my silence on many issues that I have held inside me for 16 years, remember, people like Stanton Friedman and Bill Moore USED to be mentors of mine. Now, for the first time ever, I reveal new insights into their methods and claims, the details of which will shock many people. I really wish Friedman, for example would quit DUCKING the research of Robert Todd, whose conclusions are independently VERIFIED and VINDICATED in my new book. Also Friedman has called me a "Johnny come lately to Roswell" on his WEB page. I expect Friedman to APOLOGIZE and CORRECT this mistake because he KNOWS BETTER! (I first started investigating Roswell when I used to visit Friedman at his home in Union City when I was in high school, a fact Friedman conveniently "forgets"!) My new book also corrects the numerous errors in other Roswell UFO books, especially the up-and-coming hilarious tome panted by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle. While they call their work "Beyond Roswell," a more accurate title for it should be "Beyond Gulliblity." Speaking of Hesemann, I am reminded of Eduard "Billy" Meier. Hesemann is licking his wounds here too, since yes it is TRUE that Kalliope Meier (Meier's Greek wife) has DIVORCED him now and has told the Swiss courts UNDER OATH that she NEVER BELIEVED her husband's claims of "Pleiadian" contact! She's even ADMITTED to the courts of helping her husband LIE about them and FAKE material and photos! Of course, NONE of this has detoured either Hesemann or Wendelle Stevens, the latter of whom has remained curiously SILENT about the Meier case ever since my expose book came out last year. Back to Roswell, I interviewed everyone from the Mayor of Roswell to the late Dr. Donald Menzel's widow and daughter for my new book (so yes, it even addresses MJ-l2). The inside "scoop" is also presented on Bill Moore being a "disinformation" agent' and there's a chapter on alien autopsy and some behind-the-scenes info there. The book is in hardcover format, has dozens of photos in it, some of which have never been published before and has hundreds of footnotes. It is available in bookstores across the country or from services like Arcturus, and has already been mentioned on MSNBC and in U.S. News & World Report magazine. The book's lSBN number (if anyone wishes to onler a copy) is: 1573921270. Ofcourse, Supreme One, you are mentioned in the book and in the index as well. Editor's Note: A long, bitter blast from Billy Meier's Web page attempts to refute Kalliope's statements against Billy. * ROBERT TODD writes as follows: "Thanks for your recent postcard, and for all of your kindness (and especially your tolerance) over the past several years. Enclosed please find $lO.OO in cash to renew and/or extend my non-subscription to `Saucer Smear, perhaps the best publication in the UFO field. "I am - finally - winding down my operations, with the hope of being out of the UFO field in the very near future." * Author & researcher PATRICK HUYGHE writes; "Robert Todd is the best researcher in the entire UFO field - bar none. But I don't believe for a second that he `can't wait to be finished with the UFO subject', as he states in his last letter to you. I've known him for almost two decades, and he's always threatened to quit the UFO field. Trouble is, he's hooked. As you and I well know, UFOs are a drug. "In the same vein, Todd says he's waiting for the fat lady to sing at the Roswell opera house. I think he's in for a long wait. The day Roswell gets an opera house is the day aliens will land on the White House lawn (to get a presidential injunction against fat ladies singing at....) * Roswell star KEVIN RANDLE writes as follows: "Enclosed is a page from Don Schmitt's most recent issue of `Roswell Reporter' (though dated Summer 1996, it was actually just published). Also enclosed is a copy of a brief letter that I sent on to Stanton Friedman about this. I find it interesting that Schmitt is publishing a letter today that was sent to him more than six years ago. If you read it carefully, you will see that it had to be sent before the publication of my first Roswell book. And, as you can see, there is no date on the letter, so the impression can be left that it is something that Friedman just recently sent to him! "Given what we now know about Schmitt, I'm not surprised by this tactic. I find it interesting that he is using praise from six or seven years ago to bolster his position today. What does that tell us about the man? Why not ask Stan Friedman for a new letter about how he feels today? How would Stan address the issues of Schmitt denying he worked at the post office when he does, and his claim that he holds academic degrees when he does not?" * PHIL KLASS, the hottest vaudeville star in London, writes: "This letter is prompted by Bill Moore's denial that he might have created a counterfeit General Schulgen Draft Collection Memo (SDCM). IF it is counterfeit, as Robert Todd's rigorous analysis indicates, let Moore study Todd's analysis and issue a statement as to whether he agrees that the SDCM he first made public in 1986 is indeed counterfeit. Then we can consider who might have created the counterfeit document. "My own list of possible suspects includes the following; Dolly Parton, Sgt.Richard Doty, Richard Nixon, Bill Moore, Pope John Paul, Boris Yeltsin, Sir Edmund Hillary, and you. I did not visit the National Archives from mid-1976 until mid-1987 (following release of the MJ-l2 papers), which disqualifies me as a suspect... "Jean Sider ought to check the facts before he pontificates about debunkers. This debunker `emerged' more than three years before the USAF shut down Project Blue Book, not aferwards as Sider claims." * JEFFREY KING writes: "Does Bill Moore expect anyone to take seriously his wild accusations regarding who faked the Schulgen draft collection memorandum that he published? If Moore is really interested in getting to the bottom of the mystery, why doesn't he accept Robert Todd's challenge in `The Spot Report' and name the source for his copy of the document? This would at least allow an independent check of Moore's sources..." * Roswell Researcher JERRY LUCCI writes: "...Let me start by complimenting you on another great non-issue of `Smear'. I think your latest non-issue proves beyond any shadow of a doub that Ufology has become the study and research of the individuals who claim they study and research UFOs. As a matter of fact, perhaps the two greatest sources of information are `Smear' and `SUN'. (Would anyone have believed thirty years ago that in 1997 Moseley and Klass would provide the major forums for the truth?) "I'm sure that by now you have heard or seen `The Alien Interview'. Just in case you haven't, there is a video allegedly taken at Area 51 showing a live alien, Grey type. I have seen about thirty seconds of footage, and while it is very impressive, it's nothing we haven't seen on the `X-files' or `Independence Day'. However, Whitley Strieber, famous fiction writer and abductee, has endorsed this as showing one of his beloved `visitors'. In any event, we will be hearing lots more about this in coming months. "By the way, just what is Bill Moore doing or not doing these days? And have you heard anything from our old friend Todd Zechel?" Zechel is apparently in well-deserved ufological retirement. Moore writes us that he will be traveling semi-mysteriously for the next few weeks.- Ed * KARL PFLOCK, co-author of the forthcoming book "Shockingly Close to the Truth!", writes as follows: "John Alexander's letter (in the April 20th `Smear') re Lt. Colonel Phillip Corso is interesting both for what it does and does not say: Taking the latter first, in a March 24th telephone conversation, John told me he not only had checked out Corso's military career but had extensively researched the histories of earthly technologies (e.g., transistors, computer chips, lasers) which Corso claims are the spawn of alien artifacts recovered from (which?) one of the many alleged Roswell `crash' sites and provided to American industry by himself and his conveniently late boss General Arthur Trudeau, beginning circa 1961. "John told me his investigations confirmed what he (and I) thought to be true: (1) The historical record of these technologies is clear, complete, and unambiguous, establishing without a doubt that they are products of good ol' homo sap skull sweat, with no help of any sort from alien know-how; and (2) Some were developed before Corso claimed he and Trudeau gave American industry a jump start with alien goodies. Why John didn't include this information in his letter, along with his 'character reference' for Corso, only he can tell us. "As for Corso`s alleged heroic exposure of sordid and secret Cold War activities concerning POWs and decades of U.S. incursions into Soviet airspace with significant losses of aircraft and aircrews - baloney! Most of what Corso had to say to Congress was old news, and much of the rest was highly questionable. And Project Horizon, the Army's moon-base plan? Anyone who has paid any serious attention to U.S. space programs since the 50s has known about it for decades. I think I first heard of it from the late science-fiction great Robert Heinlein in the mid-60s, and somewhere in a box in my garage, I have a fairly lengthy, unclassified summary of the Army plan. "And as for Corso being a `fine gentleman' and `no bulishit artist', well, I guess we all have our own standards. In January 1993, my wife and I had the `pleasure' of spending several hours with the good colonel in and around Roswell, and, as I noted in an earlier missive in `Smear', at best he's Frank Kaufmann with credentials! "A final thought: If Corso was such a big deal, why is it he retired from the Army as a dime-a-dozen lieutenant colonel after only 20 years of service?" * And, DR. BRUCE MACCABEE writes: "Thank you for giving the book by Ed Walters and me the most valuable endorsement: `Buy this book!' However, your comment, `We are astounded that Dr. Maccabee has signed on as co-author, though his reputation for scientific objectivity is not likely to decrease any further than it already has', puts into doubt your 'scientific objectivity'. It indicates to me that you still don't `get it'. "Perhaps this is because you didn't read the book before you made your comments, or perhaps you didn't believe what you read, or perhaps your mind is made up and you don't want to take the chance that your opinion might be swayed by the analyses presented therein. I have carefully described the controversy over some of Ed's photos and demonstrated how they are not simple double exposure hoaxes, as loudly claimed by the skeptics. In 1988 the skeptics, which included me, were quite correct in proposing the double exposure method as a potential explanation for Ed's photos. However, since 1988, photographic evidence and analyses have shown that there are photos which could not have been made by this method. Moreover, any other more complex method (Hollywood-level techniques) would be far beyond Ed's capacity. In other words, there are photos which are definitely not hoaxes! "And then there are hundreds of other sightings. Of the photo/video cases, 25 are from Gulf Breeze (including 9 non-Ed cases) and 9 are from other states and countries. There are a total of 91 Gulf Breeze sightings (only 25 by Ed) which include my sighting and your sighting. Of the 91, 33 are analyzed in detail. 45 non-Gulf Breeze sightings are also presented. "I can be reached by E-mail at: 72326.3625@compuserve.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [Image] London's Institute of Psychiatry has been treating 666 - the number of the Beast "George", a shy 20-year-old who fell 800 666 6666-- the toll-free in love with his Austin Metro. Its number front end reminded him of a smiling 2 x 4 x 666-- the lumber of child and its rear aroused him; he the Beast would crouch by its smoking exhaust 668-- the neighbor of the and masturbate. The Institute is Beast trying `orgasmic reconditioning', 666a -- the tenant of the encouraging "George" to masturbate Beast with photos of cars, switching at the last moment to pictures of naked women. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Saucer Smear Mailbox [Image] [Image] Please note that letters for Smear editor Saucer James Moseley should be snail-mailed to PO Smear Box 1709, Key West, FL 33041, insofar as Index Cdr. Moseley is proudly computer-illiterate and determined to stay that way. Own a genuine artifact of ufological history! Line your birdcage for pennies a sheet! Back issues available for the last 43 years! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HTML version by S L M
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 NICAP's - The UFO Evidence available again! From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:12:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:25:01 -0400 Subject: NICAP's - The UFO Evidence available again! One of the "classic" compilations of UFO information is available in print once again. THE UFO EVIDENCE was originally published in 1964 by The National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP). It is now being published by Barnes and Noble by arrangement with the UFO Research Coalition. If you were too young to be a member or haven't been able to find a copy, they are rare, then head down to the nearest Barnes and Noble. As Richard Hall notes in his Foreword to the reprint edition The UFO Evidence is "a valuable resource and reference work, cited in nearly every major book on the subject published in the past thirty years." Hall also notes that a "new volume is currently in preparation that will cover the years since 1964, bringing the subject up to date." THE UFO EVIDENCE edited by Richard H. Hall Barnes and Noble, 1997 ISBN 0-7607-0627-1 [Ordering Info]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Intel's new processor From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:29:19 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:28:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Intel's new processor Hi List, I was totally baffled after receiving this. As a journalist I cover the information technology industry and I have been looking for a while for overlap between UFOs and IT. If this report is true I seem to have found it. Also note that it confirms Phil Corso's statement that American companies have profited from acquired alien technology. Does anyone have more info on this? E.g. does someone know how I can contact Bob Lazar? >From: jenny@jimbrooks.org (Jenny McCarthy) >Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51 >Subject: "Intel using captured alien technology to build a revolutionary >processor" >Date: 8 Jun 1997 00:49:58 GMT > "Intel using captured alien technology to build a revolutionary > processor" > Area 51, Nellis AFB, Nevada > By Jim Brooks > June 6, 1997, 5:55 p.m. PST Hi there, As a journalist I cover the information technology sector and I am also interested in UFOs. (e.g. I publish a UFO newsletter and maintain a FAQ at www.uofic.com/faq) I am very interested to know where you got this information. When did this knowledge enter the public domain? Who is Jim Brooks? > Documents declassified by the Freedom of Information Act that > was passed by Congress, and supporting testimony from Bob Lazar, > have revealed that Intel Corporation has spent the last > several years examining alien technology and has now been able > to use it build a microprocessor that is considered to be > several centuries ahead of its time. > Bob Lazar, a physicist and computer expert (who is one of > the few individuals in the world to own a mainframe computer), > was responsible for back-engineering a captured flying saucer > which crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and was moved to, > and studied ever since, in Nellis AFB, Nevada, in a facility > known as "Area 51". As he examined the alien craft, > he realized it had an on-board computer whose processor > design was something that no human computer scientist > could ever conceive. However, Bob was primarily interested > in the physics of the anti-matter propulsion system, so he > deferred the examination of the computer system over to, > as he put it, "leading computer engineers from Santa Clara." > Go figure. > The most intriguing characteristic of the alien processor > is that it isn't an electrical device; rather is it > fabricated from organic substances with genetic material > which allows the processor to continually adapt itself > to new problems and it can evolve in order to avoid becoming > obsolete. By contrast, when humans design a processor, > the design has many trade-offs, is limited by the current > semiconductor technology, invariably has bugs which can't be > repaired, and is doomed to become obsolete. > Intel hopes to use the alien technology to build a revolutionary > processor that will forever change computing, code-named "Mutant". > Just as no two people ever had identical Cabbage Patch Dolls (tm), > no two people will ever have identical Mutant processors after > using them, because the processor will adapt itself to the needs > of the user. Similar to how nature molds a lion into a perfect > top predator after millions of years of evolution on the African > savannah, the organic substance in the processor will begin > to gradually evolve on-the-fly into a more advanced processor > that is optimally suited to the applications the user is running. > For example, if a Mutant system was first used for parallel integer > computations, its cells will begin cloning into multiple integer > processors. > Then if the Mutant system is used only for sequential floating-point > computations, the old cells of the no longer needed clones will die > and be recycled into a single pipelined floating-point processor. > Copyright 1997 Jim Brooks. All rights reserved. >------------- >Virtual Village Communication Services >Internet Development & Design >Clinton, Massachusetts >info@vvcs.com - www.vvcs.com >FirstClass BBS: 508-368-4222 >Member - Wachusett Chamber of Commerce >Area51Web: www.vvcs.com/a51 >Clinton Online: www.vvcs.com/clinton __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:38:14 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:30:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >At 10:12 8-6-97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 05:38:27 -0700 >From: John <flagg@pacbell.net> [John Townsend] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >> By the way if he hoaxed the film, show us how to do it, so they look so >> excellent. Many experts not just Bruce have tried to figure out how to do >> it. I've got a publisher that is looking for equivilant photos. >Some hoaxes and tricks have been proven/admitted and people have never >been able to duplicate them. People can do amazing things and will more >often than not surprise you. You've missed the point by a mile. First of all, your kind of rationale can be used to dismiss about anything without needing any evidence. The claim, after all, is that the photos necessarily MUST be hoaxed, but we just haven't discovered how they did it yet. You want to have your cake and eat it as well! Arguing that photos, which have passed all conceiv- able tests, must therefore be very ingenious hoaxes is BAD science, and betrays tremendous bias! The primary problem with your hoax scenario, is the apparent difficulty of pulling off such an obviously sophisticated hoax. Maccabee says that some photos could only have been created artificially had Ed used full- scale saucer models. Just the crane, the 'model' itself, and a lighting system on a public road would not just be expensive and bulky, but it's inconceivable for no one to have noticed Ed setting it up! That's just one point. The other is that Ed's not alone in seeing these things, he is backed up by _lots_ of independent witnesses and photos. (Finally, what kind of "hoaxes" and "tricks" were you referring to spe- cifically which somehow could never be "duplicated"? I think we'd all appreciate some specifics.) __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: Tues, 9 June 1997 03:45 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:38:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees >Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:21:41 -0500 (CDT) >UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees Dennis Stacey wrote: >Maybe the third time is a charm. I did *not* 'out' Linda. >Linda is already outed and has been for some time. Its like >being pregnant--you either are or you aren't. That's not an >excuse on my part, but a fact of life. Grow up. Get over it. >If you want to rage against someone, try the primary >investigator in the case. If he'd never revealed Linda's name >name in the first place--wasn't he supposed to be the gate- >keeper, Linda?--we still wouldn't know what it is and you >wouldn't be moaning and groaning to me for having ever >repeated it in whatever context, while going on as if I'd >spilled some top secret beans and caused irreversible >psychic damage in the process. "Linda is already outed and has been for some time"? Oh, the tangled web we weave...wishful thinking on your part, Dennis. I suppose, that's what you'd like everyone to believe, huh? But the fact remains, you have been trying to *out* me for years, unsuccessfully. No, you don't have anything against me personally, but you do have something against Budd Hopkins. Using me as a tool, to get back at Budd for whatever disagreements you've had with him in the past, isn't a good tactic to use. It just doesn't work. People are not going to *out* me just because you wish they would. As far as Budd Hopkins is concerned, you and I know who revealed my legal name. Why do you pretend it was Hopkins? The three debunkers from South Jersey (you know, the ones you've sided with against Hopkins) gave my real name to Jim Moseley in 1992. Jim Moseley, in turn, published it in his newsletter. This is how my name was originally revealed. The gate-keeper, Budd Hopkins, did not reveal my name and you know that. I don't know what's been rolling around in your head, Dennis, but you have even asked John Velez and Greg Sandow to direct their rage at Budd. You seem obsessed with your dislike for Hopkins, even if you were joking. It shows. It almost seems as though, you cannot separate me from Budd Hopkins. To you, I don't have an identity of my own. Strange, isn't it? You couple the both of us as *one person* simply because he has investigated my case. Even you must admit, this is a very unusual way for you to perceive things. Every abductee and alien abduction researcher, has good cause to moan and groan to you. After all, you've offended most of us. And speaking of most of us, the majority does not know my real name, as you have presumed. So, I'd like to keep it that way. Do you know what I think, Dennis? [As I remove the Yankee baseball cap off from my head, so as not to look like George Steinbrenner]. I think that people like you, have had a bad case of *Swamp Gas* for too long. Thanks for the amusement. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: ExposeUFOs@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:49:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' In the past few days I have been reading about the new Air Force report on Roswell which is supposed to be published soon. The latest Air Force story states that what crashed at Roswell was not a MOGUL weather balloon that crashed at Roswell but a top secreat "lifting body" supported by FUGO balloons. In this report they say that there were two Japanese pilots in the lifting body. This is the lamest story I have heard yet. The Air Force is just getting desperate to explain away Roswell. They know that no one believes in MOGUL anymore so they want to have an explanation for the media before the big Roswell Event this summer. There are several reasons already why I know that this report is just another cover for what really happened. 1) If this was all that happened at Roswell they would have just told us when they told us the MOGUL story. The same Air Force Officer did this report and the one three years ago. If this is all that happened then the Air Force would have told us. There was not a cold war on 3 years ago and there was not any reason not to tell us. If the Roswell event was just truly a terrestrial event the government would have told us a long time before making up all these stories. 2) The bodies that were seen at Roswell were NOT oriental or Japanese. They were definantly NOT HUMAN. The bodies that were reported had four fingers, a very small nose, pale skin, suction cups on the fingers, large eyes, and a large head. Also if these were just Oriental Pilots the Air Force base would have had no reason to call the local funeral home and ask about hermetically sealed caskets and if emblaming fluid would change blood chemistry. 3) If this was a top secreat lifting body then they would have been tracking it and they would have found it before Marcel did. There are other reasons too but it is getting late. This is just another Air Force Lie that we need to expose. What story are they going to make up once this is proved to be a lie? William H.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Intel's new processor From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:00:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Intel's new processor > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:29:19 +0200 (MET DST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Intel's new processor > > . . . Intel Corporation has spent the last > > several years examining alien technology and has now been able > > to use it build a microprocessor that is considered to be > > several centuries ahead of its time. > > . . . The most intriguing characteristic of the alien processor > > is that it isn't an electrical device; rather is it > > fabricated from organic substances with genetic material > > which allows the processor to continually adapt itself > > to new problems and it can evolve in order to avoid becoming > > obsolete. . . . > > Intel hopes to use the alien technology to build a revolutionary > > processor that will forever change computing, code-named "Mutant". > > Just as no two people ever had identical Cabbage Patch Dolls (tm), > > no two people will ever have identical Mutant processors after > > using them, because the processor will adapt itself to the needs > > of the user. . . . The above is probably a Back-Propagating Neural Network. There is nothing "alien" about those. They have been in slow development in AI for years. Probably the most wide-spread use is in OCR and other vision related software. However, the organic/genetic component mentioned above is certainly unheard of. .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:18:48 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:30:53 -0400 Subject: Re: >Intel hopes to use the alien technology to build a revolutionary >processor that will forever change computing, code-named "Mutant". >Just as no two people ever had identical Cabbage Patch Dolls (tm), >no two people will ever have identical Mutant processors after >using them, because the processor will adapt itself to the needs >of the user. They'll never build such a thing (even if it were possible to do so) .. the chip described above would put out of business hundreds of computer manufacturers around the world who _plan_ on having the processor become obsolete so that everyone can buy the next great, hot, super-fast x86 processor! Regards, JJ Mercieca (who happens to sell Intel processors but sees nothing alien in them :) Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: On the trail of Kal From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:00 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:52:04 -0400 Subject: Re: On the trail of Kal >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:39:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: On the trail of Kal >And of course, as you point out, Korff also attacks the character and >integrity of all the Roswell researchers. As I said before, Korff is >nothing but a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. >David Rudiak Yep. And what about Korff's claim to me that he would have proof in his book that the Santilli film box labels are in Volker Spielberg's handwriting???????????? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:07 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:45:30 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:05:13 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, Just back last night from San Marino where Michael, Philip and I had a chance to compare notes. In fact, none of the corrections/changed sent in by Michael, Philip and me were incorporated in the final text, which is absolutely identical to the uncorrected proofs. A series of cockups at the publisher seems to be the reason. We have been assured that all of our corrections/changes will be made in the second printing. We will each make a list of such and cross our fingers. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:02 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:50:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:06:51 +0200 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> >Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Hi all, >I've just finished reading the book "UFOs are real : Here's the Proof" >by Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee. Anyone have an opinion on the book >and the Gulf Breeze sightings in general? >Regards, >JJ Mercieca >Malta UFO Research In my opinion Bruce Maccabee is one of the few people in this field who knows what the hell he is talking about, particularly with regard to photographic analysis. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #145 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:04:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:25:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #145 Apology to MW #145 (For June 10, 1997) Our watchers, perplexed at the latest development, Are watching this thing with McVeigh. They see dancing at the *guilty* verdict -- For death, and torture dancers pray! The mob has found their willing scapegoat! He might=92ve even been absolved. . . He is the object of such hatred, But it=92s not just him, if he=92s involved! A seismic guy shows a picture That=92s clear beyond doubt There were two bombs there planted Than one talked out about! And what of folks spared in an office upstairs? Did they luck an off day in some plan? What=92s behind all this business of ATF monkeys? What will we _not_ understand? Our watchers are watching the on camera stunting Of those that are sucking avenged hating vapors From corpses long dead in this war of mistrust They foment themselves with their secretive capers! And the judge *tool* was a stonewall --=20 In the guise of what=92s *efficient* He nixed away the good stuff, So the whole truth=92s gone deficient. Perform this word search: "Hoppy Heidelberg." Read what _this_ man has to say. He was in at the ground floor! He reports anomaly the very first day! And oh my stars, and little sputniks . . . I wouldn=92t bet a beer . . . At any odds, a sucker=92s bet =96=20 McVeigh won=92t last the year! And I may be next, and then of course _you_. . . Are we standing in line for the hangman? Fed good all the way to the gallows, Our nads gently stroked by the ad man? What really happened in Oklahoma? What are the facts that our watchers all know? Who=92s all involved in the *built to suit* terror? When will _this_ pustule break, burst, or blow? Lehmberg@snowhill.com Maybe now, assuredly later, and it=92s the rare bad news that gets better with age! It may be that we are due to feel some well deserved shame for our indolence, selfishness, and cowardice. Let=92s get it over with, then move on. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.Even then this pustule festered. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:05 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:54:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Roswell Crash - Solved >I just heard that the new and improved Air Force report will be out shortly >and they have finally solved the Roswell mystery. No, it wasn't Mogul. It was >a Fugo balloon that carried a Horten Brothers designed lifting body into the >sky that could be cut lose to guide to Earth. (Insert laughter here.) Kevin, Just back last night from San Marino where Mike Hesemann brought a copy of the latest issue of Popular Mechanics which has a long story in which this premise is put forth. Actually, Frank Kaufmann's sketches do not look like a Horton lifting body at all, but look almost exactly like some of the Alfred Loedding low aspect ratio aircraft patents from the late 30s. How many strikes does the Air Force get before they are out????
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:36:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' Regarding the Fugo balloon controversy that has been on this list for the past week or so, I would like to make some observations and queries. Firstly, as I understand it, the Air Force has not come out officially with this explanation. This is only a rumour that such an explanation is about to be released. If this is absolutely confirmed, then please let me know, and where the source emanates for the confirmation. Perhaps it would be to all our benefit to wait and see if this turns out to be true...the explanation, as given by the U.S. Air Force, I mean. This almost has the appearance of a sociological experiment to test the gullibility of "ufologists," if not an out and out hoax. Why would the U.S. need to utilize wartime Japanese balloons to hoist a test vehicle, let alone nab a couple of four-fingered, glaucomic Japanese pilots to fly the craft? Was the use of Japanese pilots intended to give the project that well coordinated designer look by matching the pilots to the country of origin of the balloons? Perhaps the little `nippers' were needed to fit into the sub-standard-sized craft so as not to bang their knees up against the dash, or bruise their heads on the canopy. Lets wait for the train to pull into the station before we start to board it. TTFN D. Williamson Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Lighten Up From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:02:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:24:18 -0400 Subject: Lighten Up Hi Errol, Hi All This is not UFO related but for all those who have been long time subscribers to any news group. Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. hehehe In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:00:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:03:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees >Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:21:41 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Dennis Stacy "outing" abductees >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Dennis Stacy "outing" abductees >>Hi Greg, Dennis, All, >>I can't improve much on Gregs comments about Dennis' thoughtless >>use of Linda's real name. Everytime someone does it they immediately >>(try to) distance themselves from their unethical act by claiming >>that Linda's real name is "already out there." That's just plain >>bullsh*t, and doesn't justify the callous invasion and disregard >>for Linda's (or anyone's) right to privacy and anonymity *or that of >>their family members.* You and the Greys have a lot in common that >>way. The degree of violation is equal. >>JV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dennis responds, >Sorry to disappoint John or anyone else, but I did not 'out' Linda or any >other abductee. Once someone is outed, they're outed, period. If you want >>to call me insensitive for repeating the out, that's fine; O-K, I'll see your 'insensitive' and raise you one, 'unprincipled'! >I've already admitted as much and apologized if I caused Linda any >>additional suffering. Your appology (after the fact) and 50 cents (may) get her a bag of M&M's. Once the damage is done what the hell is 'I'm sorry' good for! I would accept your remorse as genuine if it had been done in ignorance or inadvertently, but you did what you did in the full light of day (and reason) and _intentionally_ I might add. That puts a whole different slant on it. >But it's not the same thing as outing someone to begin with. Oh yeah, how so? Linda's real name is not as 'out there' as I'm sure your guilty conscience would want it to be. I stand by my original statement that, "There is NO EXCUSE for 'outing' against their will!" I don't care how many verbal song and dances you do, you are dead wrong! Period! >then there's no help for you. All 'projections' are valid Sasquatch! <G> If you don't understand my remark ask a mental health professional they'll explain it for you. >And just out of curiousity, what suddenly makes you so familiar an >>authority on journalistic ethics? Paul Vitello, a Pulitzer Prize winning news journalist, (currently a feature writer with New York Newsday) is my wifes cousin and has been a very close friend of mine for over thirty years. We talk! <G> Also, you don't have to know much about 'ethics' journalistic or otherwise to know that what (you did) was wrong! >Is it ethical, for example, to continue insinuating that Perez de Cuellar >was abducted, along with Linda, when he maintains, in no uncertain terms, >that he wasn't? "In no uncertain terms?" That's another cowpie you're selling Stacy! What the third man _did say_ was, "_I cannot but deny_ that I have been involved in any abduction,..." That's one hell of a long way from, "in no uncertain terms". To anyone other than yourself, his statement is ambiguous at best! I'll get to your "objectivity" in a minute. But first,... >Grow up. Get over it. Go on. If you want to rage against someone, try the >primary investigator in the case. (snip) >Give me a break. The gaping black hole here is not where my heart is >supposed to be, but in the space between your ears. And note that I >didn't call you a sorry excuse for a human being. No, you didn't call me a sorry excuse for a human being because it would not apply in my case. What you (do) call me is 'stupid'! I leave it to you to post some convincing evidence for 'that' little theory of yours. I may be many things Stacy, but 'stupid' has never beem among them. Again, in regards to 'empty headedness'...all 'projections' are valid. <G> Let's get down to brass tacks Dennis. Linda brought this up already so according to your own standards it's O-K for me to repeat it! <G> About (your) objectivity; You have had a serious 'hard on' for Budd Hopkins for quite some time. Ergo, anyone connected with him gets colored with the same brush. You simply don't know me or Linda well enough to say that I am a 'stupid man' or that Linda is a 'hoaxer and a liar,' so where does that come from? I'll leave it to the intelligence of the reader to answer that one. It's true that we often say to others the things we need to hear most ourselves. You accuse Budd of not being 'objective' and you are guilty of it yourself! Again, by your own standards, you have no business in ufology either! You have a "preconcieved notion" about abductions and abductees. Holding preconcieved notions is the same thing that you accuse Budd of! If he has no business writing books or being involved in UFOlogy because of those reasons then neither do you! Headline: Pot calls Kettle Black! I don't agree with a lot of things connected to Budds work, but they are mostly proceedural differences. Your case against Budd (and us I might add) is purely vindictive in nature and yet you attempt to disguise your venom (thinly I might add) with mere words. Doesn't work Dennis, the pettyness comes through loud and clear _everytime_ you speak to one of us. You don't seem to have the necessary emotional control over yourself to hide it effectively. You don't seem to grok the fact that your transgressions and rants against us make (you) look bad, not us! <G> You're the one that's supposed to be "objective" and "openminded," man, have you missed the mark! I _can_ vouch for the fact that regardless of whatever else he may be, Budd Hopkins is an honest, decent, careing, and honorable man. Can't say the same for you Sasquatch, sorry. >Dennis Stacy >Non-Human Being >Scoundrel >Professional Outer >MUFON Dragoon >Controller & Suppressor of Dissent >Unethical Journalist Your own self assessment, not mine! <G> >(Did I leave anything out? Yeah,.. 1. Insulting 2. Vindictive 3. Closeminded 4. Prejudiced If you really want me to go on we can continue this pointless discussion privately. I hope not, I haven't got much belly left for your particular brand of pure BS. John Velez :) Poor, but honest. * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:58:55 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:31:12 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >By Ed Komarek >6/9/97 > Ed: I forgot to mention in my last post that the June issue of the Journal also has an unsparing review (I mean, attack) of Kal Korff's Roswell book by Karl Pflock. How do you explain that? I though all of us debunkers were supposed to maintain a unified front, never break ranks, criticize one another, et cetera. I look forward to your conspiracy solution to this one. Dennis Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:58:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dstacy@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >By Ed Komarek >6/9/97 > Ed: I forgot to mention in my last post that the June issue of the Journal also has an unsparing review (I mean, attack) of Kal Korff's Roswell book by Karl Pflock. How do you explain that? I though all of us debunkers were supposed to maintain a unified front, never break ranks, criticize one another, et cetera. I look forward to your conspiracy solution to this one. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:59:07 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >By Ed Komarek >6/9/97 > Dear List: There are not enough hours in the day to rationally address or discuss UFO matters with Ed Komarek. The list of people persecuting him and ORTK just gets longer and longer, the plot thicker and thicker. I should point out that it does absolutely no good whatsoever to deny that there is a mastermind, a plot and a bunch of slavish underlings carrying it out, because Mr. Komarek will always believe want he wants to, no matter what--which includes evidence to the contrary. Nevertheless, just to keep the record straight, I'll briefly address those charges where I'm mentioned in his latest paranoid broadside. >ORTK was also attacked in UFO magazine by the Chairman of FUFOR, Richard >Hall, with a similar hatchet job like Pflocks and Whitings. Then surprise >surprise, MUFON came out against these political activities. (Just who make >this decision?) I now think that Deuley was the secret mastermind behind >this attack and Hall and Stacy were simply fronting for him. There is no secret mastermind behind the attack because there is no such attack -- only a lot of people who disagree with Komarek's approach to certain matters, including the issue of whether picketing the White House actually accomplishes that much--or can accomplish much. But people in this field are not allowed to have honest disagreements with know-it-all Komarek. Deuley has virtually zero input as far as the Journal goes. For example, although he lives only a couple of miles away, I didn't send him a pre-publication copy of Jeffrey's paper, nor did he ask for one. For all I know, he may not even be aware of its existence until he gets his copy of the June Journal in the mail. It might surprise you to learn that we both have families, he has more than a fulltime job, and, frankly, we are just too busy to sit around plotting the ruin of ufology from within. >Others that got a lot of media attention from the mainstream press were >similarly targeted and unfairly attacked.(Maybe the Hopkins folks have a few >words to say on this too.) It seems to me that the MUFON Journal is rapidly >becoming a debunking Journal. See Kent Jeffery's honest change of heart >right at the Roswell 50th and when 20,000+ signatures have been collected, in >the next issue. Stacy gives of all people Jim Moesley a prepublication copy. > Stacy then says he is going to publish a attack on Corso by Karl Pflock in >the issue after that. Expect Stacy to publish a attack on Greer soon >thereafter. Jim Mosely got a copy because he did that rarest of things in ufology -- he called me on the phone and asked for one. The article was already at the printer's. I also sent advance copies to Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman by email and asked for their response. Randle has already responded and his response will appear in the next issue of the Journal. If you ask me politely, I'll send you a copy of same if you promise not to distribute it before publication. As for Corso's book, use a little logic, Ed, even though you're a complete stranger to such matters. If Corso's book is really, actually true in every regard, then the secret is finally out--"outed" by a true insider. Now, how good could an orchestrated cover up be if the powers that be actually let Corso's book get into print? Isn't this just the sort of stuff they're charged to keep out of the public eye, regardless of the cost? The fact of the matter is that Corso's book will be reviewed and discussed everywhere in the mainstream media. I expect the major TV newsmagazines are clamoring for exclusive interviews even as we speak. If you think a 3 or 4-page review (I'm sorry, I meant attack) of his book by Pflock in the MUFON Journal is going to carry much impact on national affairs, I appreciate the flattery, but that's about it. >Now, are these same individuals, Deuley, Stacy and Hall manipulating the >Coalition to create a containment operation in order to sabotage hearings in >Congress? Maybe make Greer into being the bad guy? It would be fairly hard for me to have much influence on (i.e., manipulate) the Coalition, since I'm not a member and don't attend their meetings. I do know Richard Hall, however. The only contact I've had in the past year with him was to solicit an article for the UFO book that was just published in England. Did I ask Hall to contribute so as to further some sort of conspiracy against you and ORTK? No, I asked him because he's a known name in the field and has been around UFOs for almost 50 years now. If Greer has damaged his own reputation, he's done it without any assistance from me whatsoever. The full details of my own personal experience with Greer--atop Woodborough Hill in England in the early 90s, when he was trying to call down flying saucers with giant flashlights--have never appeared in print. In fact, I thought I was doing Greer a favor by not publishing them in detail, as they're not very flattering. My own opinion is that the man has a screw or two loose rattling around in his attic, but you're free to follow and support whomever you wish. As things now stand, I *might* print Michael Lindemann's piece about Greer and the Washington briefings, which, I suppose, puts Lindemann in on the conspiracy, too. Jeez, it's spreading by the minute, isn't it? If I do, though, it will be because I think many of our readers might be interested in reading it. An ulterior motive if there ever was one. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:49:24 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:42:24 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? Ed Komarek's outburst underscores the old saw that you haven't made it in this field if you haven't been accused at least once of being in the pay of some sinister intelligence agency. Accusing others in this way also serves a larger purpose: it saves one the effort of thinking up real counterarguments. Rather than consider the possibility that ORTK's critics may have a point, why not just slander their motives and characters? I was once fingered as an agent of the cover-up by no less than the Space Brothers, who communicated this useful information to a contactee channeling group. Those who subscribe to the view (I am not one) that NICAP fell because the CIA sought to thwart Keyhoe's efforts will now have to deal with a new charge, made in Jim Keith's just-published CASEBOOK ON THE MEN IN BLACK (p. 107): that "Major Keyhoe ... functioned as a UFO disinformation agent for the government." Is no one safe from the McCarthyites in our midst? Sadly, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: 10 Jun 97 16:59:44 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:34:31 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes HOW TO DETECT MEMBERS OF THE ANTI-UFO CONSPIRACY COVER-UP DISINFORMATION MASSACRE TALKING BLUES ORGANIZATION AND JUG BAND (and roadies and groupies) The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments and the following idle thoughts from the sun-drenched hills of Wildomar. As usual Mr Komarek (if that is his real name) makes matters more complicated than they need be. It is really very easy to detect the enemies of free speech, the expsure of the Truth About UFOs, &c &c &c. The symptoms of the wickedness are as follows. You can be certain that your suspect is a bone fide Agent of Ufological Darkness if they satisfy/display any four of the following conditions/symptoms. If in doubt, you may follow the Hopkins-Jacobs-Westrum lead in analysing their infamous Roper Poll and reduce this number to three. Cover-Up Operatives, Executives, Agents, Controllers (and in some cases their pets) exhibit the following tell-tale characteristics: 1. Inordinate chuckling (or a wry smile) at the following words or phrases: "Area 51" "Bruce Maccabee" "Secret School" "Tony Bennett" "Stanton T. Friedman" "MJ-12" "Gus Cannon" "ETH" "serious UFO researcher" "Ed Komarek" "Linda" 2. Failure to bulge eyeballs, foam at the mouth and rant about the wickedness of the government, Air Force, black helicopters, the price of gas, Barnes & Noble, and taxes in Texas on hearing the words "UFO Cover-Up and Conspiracy" (or any words similar to those). 3. Use of pseudonyms calculated to amuse, e.g. San Antonio Sasquatch, Philip J. Klass (real name: Linda Adamski), Reverend Reverberation P. Thong, Linda Cortile, Count of Florini, Armen Victorian, Bob Dylan, Memphis Slim, George Eliot, &c 4. Making more than one joke per posting to any Internet List, Web page, BBS, newsgroup, or similar outfit 5. Making jokes about UFOs and ufology, Bigfoot, Lock Ness Monster, fairies, angels, spontaneous human (or rabbit) combustion, Wilhelm Reich, Ed Komarek, or Greg Sandow's CD problem 6. Making jokes at all 7. Suggesting Dr J. Allen Hynek may not have been entirely perfect 8. Holding or having held military rank, provided everything they say about their military occupation is checkable. WARNING: Persons of past or present military rank, whether genuine or fictitious, who make uncheckable and unverifiable claims regarding UFOs, aliens, black helicopters, underground alien barbecue sauce factories &c are Good Guys and require no further investigation. This also goes for persons with doctorates, incidentally. Accusations that such persons are even ever so slightly deluded, or perhaps mistaken - let alone stark raving bonkers - must be resisted at all costs, in all available fora and media, with maximum verbiage 9. Spending more than two consecutive nights in Texas at any time or for any reason, whether dead or alive. Occupancy of the Republic of Texas is a sure sign of being "not on the side of the people" and having "hidden and manipulative agendas". Possibly the government releases some kind of hypnotic gas into the Texan atmosphere. Some serious researchers are investigating this. NOTE: It is physically, mentally, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually impossible for any resident, past or current, of the State of California (USA) or the County of Yorkshire (UK) to be a member of the CoverUp and Conspiracy Organization 10. Having publications printed on paper of above-average quality. The Anomalist, the UK UFO Magazine and Fortean Times are especially suspect (the journals also take credit cards for subscriptions, thus revealing their affiliation with the New World Order), and Flying Saucer Review (great paper, shame about the circulation) is a dead cert 11. Demonstrating undue interest in or knowledge of the blues, traditional British American music, aircraft, alcoholic beverages, cats, Mary Chapin Carpenter, more than one foreign language, luxury cars no longer in production, or Apple computers. Holders of helicopter pilots' licenses require extra vigilance 12. Ignoring beautiful women at UFO conferences 13. Ignoring beautiful men at UFO conferences 14. Being kissed by Philip Klass 15. Wearing any item of black apparel, especially in combination with white socks 16. Having the letter K in your name. The more Ks, the more treacherous and dangerous the conspirator, e.g. K.K. Korff, Karl Pflock, Paul Sieveking, Bob Rickard, Jerome Clark, J. Allen Hynek, Ed Komarek, Budd Hopkins &c I trust this puts the matter in perspective. Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza Refugee from the Law of Averages Commander, Cell 239 MOSSAD West (Mountain Division)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 UFORC response to Dr. Steven Greer From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:53:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:58:47 -0400 Subject: UFORC response to Dr. Steven Greer The UFO Research Coalition has responded to some of the comments that have been posted to the Internet, and hopes to clarify some information that they believe to be inaccurate. This statement was received in hard copy, and I have attempted to correct all of the OCR errors that it contained after scanning it. Please advise me of any obvious errors that need correction. Comments and questions can be directed to Richard Hall, Chairman of the UFO Research Coalition. He may be reached via phone/fax at 301-779-8683. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dbegin UFORC= statement=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMMENTS ON STEVEN GREER'S JUNE 3rd LETTER ON THE INTERNET TO MICHAEL LINDEMANN It is time to expose the egregious, self-serving and false remarks made by Steven Greer on the Internet on June 3rd regarding the UFO Research Coalition's (hereafter referred to as UFORC) Briefing Document and his misguided reasons for distributing illegal pirated copies of it. Following is background information, fully documented, on a point by point basis, to refute the false claims and accusations that Greer has written, I. Greer Involvement with MRG and BSW Foundation: Plans and Proposals: In September 1993, at the JY Ranch in Wyoming, Marie Galbraith (hereafter referred to as MRG) was invited by Laurance Rockefeller (hereafter referred to as LSR) to attend a small conference of eight UFO researchers convened by the Human Potential Foundation to discuss various aspects of UFO phenomena. At that time, MRG was in no way involved in UFO matters or research. Greer, one of the participants, met MRG. In the months to follow, Greer kept in touch with MRG and sent her several unsolicited documents describing his organization, CSETI, and outlining an effort to raise money for a grandiose plan called Project Starlight. CSETI was described as "The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, the only worldwide organization dedicated to establishing peaceful and sustainable relations with extraterrestrial life forms." Its RMIT training programs promised to teach "how to initiate contact with ET's and vector in their space craft". CSETI investigation teams were described as "having successfully made contact with extraterrestrial craft and guided them into their immediate geographical area." The immodest claim was made that "the unanticipated rate of success of these efforts suggests that CSETI's ultimate plans to make contact with and put a human team aboard an ET craft will soon be realized." Project Starlight was described as "a one-year project to prepare the world for this first formal contact between human beings and extraterrestrial intelligence=85 Completion of this Project should occur by summer 1994, and preferably by the spring." In his description of his relationship with MRG during this period, Greer describes her as taking an immediate "keen interest" in his affairs. Greer translates his constant mailing of promotional material to MRG into her wanting to have an active involvement with his plans. He states: "In the summer of 1993, I was invited to a meeting at Mr. Laurance Rockefeller's JY Ranch =85 where I met Mrs. Marie (Bootsie) Galbraith. I shared with Ms. Galbraith and the others gathered there our plans=85 Mrs. Galbraith indicated a keen interest in assisting with this effort." In January 1994, Greer invited both MRG and LSR to a "Strategy Team" meeting for Project Starlight at his home in Asheville, NC. In the paperwork sent to them, their names were already listed as part of the CSETI Strategy Group, Core Strategy Section, without their previous knowledge or permission. Neither one attended this meeting. In February 1994, Greer called MRG and asked her if she would arrange for him to speak about UFOs to New Yorkers whom she thought might be interested in knowing more, about the subject. MRG was still not in any way involved with UFO matters, but she was curious about Greer and UFOs. She graciously arranged the talk for him. MRG's friends were given unsolicited fund raising material. One friend, Sandra Wright (then Houghton) embraced Greer's ideas with fervor. Later in May, MRG and Ms. Houghton went to a CSETI RMIT in Colorado to see what Greer was up to. In July 1994, a year and a half after she had met Greer at the JY Ranch meeting, MRG was asked to undertake a major UFO research project by LSR, to recommend funding for valid UFO\ETI investigation and to encourage governments worldwide to open their files, At the suggestion of Ms. Houghton, the project was placed under the "aegis" of the BSW Foundation, her recently formed family foundation. Although the LSR project was carried out by MRG under the name of the BSW Foundation, Ms. Houghton had minimal direct involvement with it. The project was funded by LSR and was carried out in an office, which had been previously rented by MRG for other purposes. From July to December 1994, MRG acquainted herself with the field of UFO events, and the researchers investigating them, in the USA and in Europe. Greer was only one of many researchers that MRG/LSR/BSW were interested in. Greer was only one of many researchers who sent in proposals for funding. While most applicants for funding call their applications "proposals", Greer refers to his efforts as a "collaboration". Greer calls his funding proposals and presentation of plans as "consultation" and "strategic input". Moreover, Greer claims that from the moment he met MRG at the JY ranch, a close involvement was set up. Greer infers that for 2 years he acted as her guide. (In fact, MRG "et al" did not begin the UFO project for LSR until mid July 1994, and by the end of October 1995, Greer had ceased communicating with her.) Greer writes: "For nearly 2 years we collaborated on this matter, and CSETI continued to provide consultation and strategic input=85 In the fall of 1995, some 2= years after first providing the concept, title, strategy etc. to Mrs. Galbraith et at,," Greer's CSETI Project Starlight proposals went through several changes between December 1993 and December 1994. Greer described grandiose plans for the announcement of the imminent arrival of Ets: opening an office and a central media center, briefings for government officials and press worldwide, obtaining amnesty for government and military witnesses, collecting the Best Available Evidence, etc. These proposals had different estimated time and cost frames varying from, six to eight months at $250,000 - $500,000, to one year (with an international staff of 49 people plus outside professionals) at $5,684,074!! References to what the BAE would consist of was put into three categories: Witnesses, Documents, and Hard Evidence (Bodies, Metal). More specifically, a December 31, 1993 Project Starlight Overview states: "In descending order of desirability for the BAE: EBE tissue samples/slides which would definitively establish the extraterrestrial origin of these beings; significant artifacts of extraterrestrial origin; photos, movies or videos of the above, or of intact Ets or EBEs; satellite, gun camera or other photos, videos and movies of Ets on or near earth; genuine government documents with substantial detail " Aside from the fact that such conclusive evidence is impossible to produce, it certainly bears no resemblance to anything in the UFORC Briefing= Document, In January 1995, Greer asked MRG and Ms. Houghton if he could call a meeting of his Core Strategy Team for Project Starlight in New York at Ms. Houghton's apartment to discuss the creation of the "Starlight Coalition", a new entity which was to one day include as many UFO groups and researchers as possible in a united effort to bring UFO reality to the fore worldwide. The Director would be Steven Greer. The apartment was made available, but with the clear stipulation that this did not guarantee or imply BSW (i.e. LSR) funding or endorsement in the future. On January 30, 1995, Greer met with his group in New York. Also present were MRG and her assistant Ria Finazzo (to take minutes), Sandra Houghton, and George Lamb from LSR's office. After discussing the desired Coalition creation, structure and funding, there was mention of a "BAE Summit", which would cost $500,000, to present the collection of UFO\ETI evidence for a briefing document. There was also mention of a "Witness Summit" to gather secret government witness testimony on video. This was the only time Greer met with "Galbraith et al" in New York. (Later, after much deliberation, MRG and George Lamb decided that a modest grant, via the MRG project at the BSW Foundation, should fund a small "Witness Gathering" in the coming months, organized by Greer, in order to test what he could produce.) II. UFORC Involvement with MRG and BSW Foundation; Plans and Proposals: In February 1995, MRG met with the heads of the newly created UFO Research Coalition - Mark Rodeghier and George Eberhart (CUFOS), Richard Hall and Don Berliner (FUFOR), and Walt Andrus and Tom Deuley (MUFON) - to discuss proposals for funding. It was decided to produce a full and serious summary report on the case for UFO reality to be published privately in 1,000 copies and to be funded by LSR via the MRG project at BSW. (A "Briefing Summary" had already been suggested by Don Berliner in November 1994 with an outline for evidence, investigations and conclusions, most of which were incorporated into the final document.) The document would be divided into four sections: Overview of the Problem; best documented, worldwide and least controversial Case Histories since 1945; Quotations from prominent government and military officials, astronauts and scientists, world wide; and Appendices with miscellaneous useful information. (Between them, the members of UFORC have the largest data bank of UFO material available in the world.) Don Berliner was chosen to be the author. (Midway through the project, Antonio Huneeus joined Berliner to help with some research and editing of the document, MRG authored two pages on Government Secrecy and also served as editor. (The time of preparation for the document was ten months, with an additional two months for printing. The total cost was under $50,000.) III. Greer's Claims of Credit for the UFORC Briefing Document: Greer twists the truth to his own purpose when he states: "In addition to my creating the title, concept, criteria and strategy for the use of the BAE, I flew to New York to meet with Galbraith et al and spent considerable time discussing specific cases to be selected for the= BAE." First of all, Greer omits the real purpose of his one trip to New York to meet with "Galbraith et al", i.e. the meeting with his core team on January 30th to discuss setting up the "Starlight Coalition". There was absolutely no discussion of "specific cases" for any BAE, and certainly not those presented later in the UFORC document. If he is referring here to his own BAE (as described above), it would have been totally unacceptable for the UFORC document. If he is here referring to the UFORC BAE for their briefing document, his alleged suggestions for "specific cases" would have been given before the meeting between MRG and UFORC took place in February, when UFORC first agreed among themselves to propose the briefing document with non-controversial case histories. (The funding for this was later approved by LSR.) "Additionally, numerous hours were spent via long distance telephone discussing the BAE with Mrs. Galbraith and in selecting specific cases to be used" If Greer is referring to his own BAE here, this make no sense because BSW (i.e. LSR) was not funding or endorsing the BAE Summit of the Project Starlight, nor the idea of a Starlight Coalition, and had only agreed to fund instead a small "Witness Gathering". If Greer is referring to the UFORC BAE, why would he want or try to butt in on their business? How can he in any way claim credit for a project organized, written and researched by the UFORC team and funded by BSW (i.e. LSR)? Why would he try to interfere in a process being carried out by a group who did not want to associate with him in any way? Why does he claim that MRG would give all his ideas to UFORC to carry out? Why does he not credit UFORC with ideas of their own? How far does the imagination have to be stretched to give Greer the credit for providing UFORC via MRG the specific cases for their briefing document? Contrary to the written affidavits from Don Berliner and Antonio Huneeus re their own work and the origin of their ideas and research for the briefing document (which were sent to Greer over a year ago when he first complained about MRG to LSR in a letter dated March 12, 1996), and contrary to the many witnesses to events over this time frame and to in-house documents, we have only Greer's misguided words to substantiate his claims. Greer exaggerates and frequently misinterprets events. Greer is known to have evangelical ideas of his own "mission" and importance. Does he misconstrue the facts because he does not have time to check his information, or simply because he misinterprets events and rearranges the facts to suit his own illusions? The methods and style of the two parties, Greer and UFORC, are totally different. Only their common purpose, to investigate and bring to light the likely reality of UFO\ETI, is shared. Their similar idea to write a document to convince people can be understood in an analogy: hundreds of people want to write cookbooks (not an original idea), but the ideas for recipes vary widely. Greer resolves all questions concerning his claim for the creation of the title, concept, criteria and strategy for the UFORC Briefing Document by sticking to his illusions: "Mrs. Galbraith and the BSW Foundation... offered to take on the task of writing the BAE. The BAE was to be a collection of Classic, if traditional, UFO cases of strong evidential integrity. It was decided that my efforts should go into obtaining extraordinary evidence and deep cover first-hand military and intelligence data and witness testimony." Greer implies that MRG and BSW "offered" to do him a favor and would pay for his now "classic" BAE ideas and inspirations to be written by others. (Greer describes Berliner's and Huneeus's work elsewhere as "a mere technical endeavor by paid writers"). Thus, with his own illusions neatly intact, Greer comfortably fits himself with impunity into the picture, still claiming control over MRG, still being her guide in UFO matters. In his own mind, he was the leader and MRG was always his follower. Greer continued to apply his interpretation to their correspondence, on witness matters and other matters, for a long while. In a long letter written to M.RG on September IO, Greer whined to MRG for her lack of input to him: "We must assure that a mutual, fair and equitable exchange of resources and information occurs between our coalition and others. The perception exists that, to date, this has been primarily in one direction - yours=85 We have received not one piece of evidence from you; no witnesses have been introduced to us through you; no photographs, videos or documents have been received; and no funding has been provided for our network and operations, which are strained to the breaking point due to lack of support=85 There is the sense that supports information, evidence, contact, etc. flow only in your direction=85 For example, I was saddened to learn of your meeting with Pamela Harriman through contacts we have in the French and US governments and not from you directly." Greer seems to misunderstand the function of the MRG project at the BSW Foundation, namely to fund projects by different members of the UFO community for serious research, which would benefit the entire community effort. As for the last comment, MRG's husband was US Ambassador to France. MRG meets people every day that Greer would like to know about. She does not discuss UFOs with everyone she meets. From February to October 1995, correspondence between MRG\BSW and Greer focused on the subject of his collecting witness testimony to use to obtain eventual government amnesty for all government witnesses and to make a video one day to use as evidence. MRG also kept Greer (and others) informed on the progress of the UFORC Briefing Document. (MRG was in touch with researchers all over the world on this and many other subjects. She was hoping to have the Briefing Document endorsed by some of them, but time was running out and this idea was abandoned.) The only example of a request sent to Greer by MRG concerning possible evidence for the Briefing Document occurred in memos in late July and August when she asked him to send her copies of material on pilot cases (for Huneeus) which Richard Haines had sent him. Haines understood from Greer that he and BSW were joined at the hip, and assumed that Greer would automatically forward his material to BSW. MRG did write "perhaps we could borrow them for a short period of time to see if we could summarize the material and use it for a short presentation in our "Briefing Document". The material was never sent. UFORC also had these pilot cases, but they were never used. IV. Funding of the UFORC Briefing Document: Greer states: "Mrs. Galbraith and the BSW Foundation, with funding assistance from Mr. Rockefeller and others offered to take on the task of completing and writing the BAE=85 I should point out that the principal of BSW (i.e. Sandra Houghton), who provided significant funding (along with Mr. Rockefeller) for the writing of the BAE=85 Notwithstanding the fact that BSW [as separate from the LSR\MRG funding] partially funded the document=85 " The funding for the UFORC document was taken care of totally by LSR, via BSW. Ms. Houghton provided no funding for the UFORC document. Greer makes blatantly false statements here, which the LSR, BSW and UFORC bank accounts can attest to. V. Copyright and Distribution of the UFORC Briefing Document: Greer states desperately, using some capital letters: "It was always the explicit and repeatedly stated intention of Mrs. Galbraith, BSW, Mr. Rockefeller and CSETI to create a BAE which would be a PUBLIC DOMAIN, NON-COPYRIGHTED DOCUMENT=85 In the fall of 1995=85 she= [MRG] mailed me a NON-COPYRIGHTED Best Available Evidence document to be used for briefing leaders=85 We SPECIFICALLY AND EXPLICITLY DISCUSSED THE USE OF= THIS JOINTLY CREATED DOCUMENT AS A PERMANENTLY NON-COPY RIGHTED, PUBLIC DOMAIN D0CUMENT=85" Where is the proof of this? Certainly the UFORC, LSR and MRG are unaware of such intentions. Again, there is only Greer's word against others. Again, Greer is reinventing history. An October draft of the Briefing Document was sent to many members of the UFORC team and to some researchers in the USA and in Europe for editing and comments. Greer was also sent a copy. MRG never heard back from Greer. Others were very helpful with their comments. This document was presented in draft form and not as a final product. There was no copyright page attached to the draft. Present copyright law (Federal Copyright Statute 17 U.S.C. # 405 (a), amended in 1989, and 17 U.S.C. #101 et seq. protects uncopyrighted drafts as well as the final products that result from them. The final copyrighted product, Unidentified Flying Objects - Briefing Document, appeared in February 1996, in bound form with a blue cover. This was also duly sent to Greer. As for Greer's concern for its free distribution in the public domain, free use of some UFORC material was additionally provided. An Executive Summary, written by Dick Hall, and a Summary of Quotations were printed up and handed out, free of copyright to any and all who desired to have it. These could be copied and distributed by anyone free of charge, provided the material was left as it was presented in the original. Greer makes a final complaint concerning the distribution issue: "=85 Mrs. Galbraith and the so-called UFO Research Coalition will not even allow BSW to purchase copies of the document for free distribution to VIPs and world leaders." There are only a handful of the original UFORC Briefing Documents left, and these are being tightly held by the UFORC for the moment for their own choice of recipients. Moreover, the UFORC has never desired in any way to be associated with Greer, neither in the past and certainly not in e= present. VI. Mrs. Galbraith's Working Agreements and Arrangements: Finally, Greer accuses MRG of several "violations": "Mrs. Galbraith, in collaboration with the so-called and newly formed UFO Research Coalition, attempted to seize this jointly created BAE, document, copyright it, and restrict its use, in clear and reprehensible violation of the spirit of how the document was created. In doing so, Mrs. Galbraith violated our working agreement, and further violated her arrangement with the founder and principal of BSW foundation=85" What does it mean to "seize" one's own document? What was the "working agreement" between CSETI, MRG and the RSW Foundation? Or the "arrangement" between Ms. Houghton and MRG regarding the UFORC Briefing Document? Are there some written agreements and arrangements? If so, let us see them. If not, all we have is Greer's vague innuendo that he and Ms. Houghton have been badly treated and misled. On October 19, 1995, MRG wrote to Greer saying that the BSW wished to continue to help him in some of his efforts which would benefit the entire UFO community, but that she could not necessarily agree with his interpretation of much of the UFO phenomena and that he must be "very careful when using LSR's name that it is not associated with an assumed approval of your interpretation of events." Greer never replied, All correspondence ceased thereafter. On December 15, 1995, MRG separated from the BSW Foundation, by a mutual agreement with Ms. Houghton made months earlier, and she returned to working as a consultant directly for LSR, as was the original intention. VII. Conclusion: Greer claims that there are multiple witnesses and dated documents, which support his facts. It would be interesting to see them. The documents in the hands of the UFORC, of which only a few are quoted here, tell a very different story from the one Greer recounts. Greer describes the actions of many of his fellow UFO researchers as demonstrating "venal and destructive behavior" which occurs "out of malice and jealousy". Greer accuses Lindemann as having "failed to engage in due diligence" in calling Greer "grossly dishonest". He accuses MRG of "treachery". He lies about facts, which can be easily checked and proven, such as the funding for the UFORC Briefing Document. He has committed at least two illegal acts by distributing (in the words of the copyright lawyer) "a blatantly pirated copy of a document written by Don Berliner for the UFORC." Aside from the copyright issue, he has violated the federal Lanham Act 15 U.S.C. # 1125 (a) by using Berliner's name on the cover of the so-called CSETI Project Starlight document. Legal action is now being taken against Greer by the UFORC. Might we suggest to Greer that he follow the Bible's suggestion: "first cast out the mote which is in thine own eye"! To those who are familiar with the UFO "scene", Greer's behavior sounds like that of a spoiled child who has not gotten his way, stamping his foot in fury and frustration. He has interpreted events to suit his aspirations and illusions and seems unable to face the reality of being a small fish in a big pond. He continues to misrepresent and manipulate facts to flaunt his own importance. His arrogance can be seen in his typical comments about himself and his work in his Internet letter: His critics are described as those who:=20 "wish to derail the historic events and momentum of the CSETI Project Starlight effort=85 these elements within the UFO community have chosen to obstruct the process of world education on the subject=85" "An historic gathering was convened in Washington, D-C, on April 9, 1997=85 Meanwhile historic and promising developments continue with the CSETI Project Starlight disclosure Strategy." A final quote from Greer's own writing might serve as advice to apply to himself: "The most, the best, we can do is to allow our individual, finite selves to be at the service of a rapidly unfolding Plan, the Architect of which is infinitely wise and skillful. In a true sense, we need only to get out of our own way, to forget self and follow guidance. Even as it is said in the Mathnavi, a mystical writing: 'The death of self is needed here, not rhetoric: Be nothing, then, and walk Upon the waves.' When we die to self, the Divine will shine through and guide us." If Greer believes in what he writes and quotes above, and if he believes that the common goal of awakening the world to the reality of UFO\ETI is more important than his own ego, he would rejoice in any serious step that moves forward towards achieving this goal. To the man who wrote the words above, a well-done Briefing Document, which is being offered to influential members of the world community, should elicit his gratitude. To such a man it should not make any difference, whether or not he is the creator of it, that his name was not attached to it. Would the real Steven Greer please step forward?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:30:48 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:06:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees >Date: Tues, 9 June 1997 03:45 EDT >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto - <updates@globalserve.net> >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) >Subject: Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees >Dennis Stacey wrote: >"Linda is already outed and has been for some time"? >Oh, the tangled web we weave...wishful thinking on your >part, Dennis. I suppose, that's what you'd like everyone >to believe, huh? But the fact remains, you have been >trying to *out* me for years, unsuccessfully. Dear Linda, You're getting as difficult to respond to rationally as Mr. Komarek, but let me try. I have not been trying to out you personally for years. I've already posted a list of articles I published about your case in the Journal over the last five years or so, 12 articles in favor of, one against. But had I been trying, you can bet your Yankees' cap that it wouldn't have been unsuccessfully. I could have mentioned your last name any time I wanted to in a number of media outlets that I write regularly for, beginning with Fortean Times and Omni magazine, both the late print edition and now the electronic version. I could have posted it on this and other WWW lists. Instead, I inadvertently used it once, which I apologized for. You are, of course, perfectly free to refuse that apology. You're not free to distort the facts of the matter. >No, you don't >have anything against me personally, but you do have >something against Budd Hopkins. Using me as a tool, to >get back at Budd for whatever disagreements you've had >with him in the past, isn't a good tactic to use. It just doesn't >work. People are not going to *out* me just because you wish >they would. Again, you're into mind-reading. I have disagreements with some of Budd's interpretations of the abduction evidence, beginning with his interpretation of the Roper Report findings. In the interval, I can't think of anything he has offered to the Journal that I haven't printed. If I "have something against" Budd, that's a surprising way to express it. I even tried to use one of his early articles, from the Village Voice, in the UFO book I just co-edited, which means that I would have been putting money in his pocket. The reason why it doesn't appear has to do with the fact that the people in charge of the Voice's rights departments are a bunch of flakes. When approval finally came through, it was too late. There is still the possibility that Budd's article could appear in the American edition if there is one. >As far as Budd Hopkins is concerned, you and I know who >revealed my legal name. Why do you pretend it was Hopkins? >The three debunkers from South Jersey (you know, the ones >you've sided with against Hopkins) gave my real name to Jim >Moseley in 1992. Jim Moseley, in turn, published it in his >newsletter. This is how my name was originally revealed. >The gate-keeper, Budd Hopkins, did not reveal my name and >you know that. Again, you misconstrue my statements, which were intended to imply that more care could of been taken. In other words, someone needs to ask why your name was entrusted to them in the first place if absolute privacy was the first priority. There *are* ways to keep state secrets, you know, just ask the Air Force. >I don't know what's been rolling around in your >head, Dennis, but you have even asked John Velez and Greg >Sandow to direct their rage at Budd. You seem obsessed with >your dislike for Hopkins, even if you were joking. It shows. The issue you're referring to--the location of the mail-drop--is a minor but complicated one, but had nothing to do with asking John or Greg to direct their rage (or mine) at Budd. I am not obsessed with any dislike for Budd. I do have a passing interest in (and concern for) increasingly escalating and exotic claims made for the UFO abduction phenomenon. In that sense, I'm from the big state just south of Missouri. I originally asked John to ask Budd about the drop's location because I had heard different stories about its whereabouts. Eventually, Budd responded with a letter that I should address any questions I had about the case to him. I agreed with that. You then came online, saying you were willing to answer questions about the case yourself. I asked you exactly one, to which Greg responded before you did. >It almost seems as though, you cannot separate me from Budd >Hopkins. To you, I don't have an identity of my own. Strange, >isn't it? You couple the both of us as *one person* simply >because he has investigated my case. Even you must admit, this >is a very unusual way for you to perceive things. It is a very unusual way to perceive things, I admit, it just happens not to be how I do perceive things, but I appreciate your trying. >Every abductee and alien abduction researcher, has good cause >to moan and groan to you. After all, you've offended most of us. >And speaking of most of us, the majority does not know my real >name, as you have presumed. So, I'd like to keep it that way. Another one that's hard to respond to because it's so general. Have I offended Eddie Bullard, for example? Did I offend David Jacobs by asking him to review Budd's "Witnessed" in the Journal? Do I offend John Carpenter by running his column in the Journal? Did I offend Ray Fowler by asking him to write about the Allagash case for the UFO book? Have I offended Walter Webb, Richard Haines, Jacques Vallee, Jerry Clark? Maybe you should stop confusing the whole of ufology with the NYC circle? In fact, this whole field needs to seriously psychoanalyze itself to see whether it's going to allow honest differences of opinion and interpretation to exist, or whether it's simply going to lump everyone into two opposing camps, as in you're either for me or against me. The latter is certainly Komarek's approach, and from where I sit, it seems to be the one you're taking as well. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 CNI News -- Special Report -- June 10, 1997 From: CNINews1@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:51:02 -0400 Subject: CNI News -- Special Report -- June 10, 1997 ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News -- Special Report -- June 10, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. CNI News is a subscription newsletter. First-time recipients may receive two free issues before subscribing. UFO/CNI researchers, educators and organizations may qualify for a complimentary subscription. For more information on how to subscribe, please see the notice at the end of this issue. Questions and comments may be addressed to: Editor, CNINews1@aol.com. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== SPECIAL REPORT: DR. GREER CLAIMS RIGHT TO USE "BEST EVIDENCE" DOCUMENT, BUT UFO RESEARCH COALITION DECLARES HIS ACTION ILLEGAL CNI News Answers Criticisms of June 1 Story on DC Briefings The lead story in the June 1 edition of CNI News recounted details of the April 9-10 Washington DC "closed briefing on UFOs and Extraterrestrial Intelligence" hosted by Dr. Steven Greer's Project Starlight Coalition for members of Congress and invited press. In the June 1 story, CNI News claimed that Greer had improperly duplicated and distributed a copyrighted document referred to as "The Best Available Evidence" or BAE. CNI News has been severely criticized for this story on several counts, not only by Greer but by a number of other readers. The first criticism is that CNI News did not report Steven Greer's side of the story. This criticism is valid and is corrected below. The second criticism is that CNI News mixed personal opinion statements of writer Michael Lindemann in with factual reporting, which is considered unacceptable journalistic practice. This criticism is valid. CNI News and its writers are entitled to express opinions in clearly designated Editorials, not in other stories. An editorial statement concludes this special report. The third and most important criticism is that CNI News defamed Steven Greer by making blatantly false and libelous accusations. The main purpose of this special report is to answer this criticism. CNI News agrees that some details in the original June 1 story were inaccurate, and they are corrected in this report. Steven Greer disputes those who say he misrepresented his right to the BAE document, and his position is reported here. However, the UFO Research Coalition, which holds the copyright on the published version of the disputed document, and others who were involved in its creation, staunchly maintain that Greer acted illegally and that his version of events leading to the creation of the BAE is highly inaccurate and self-serving. An attorney for the Coalition has sent Greer a cease and desist warning in this regard, citing specific violations of law. In light of these complaints, CNI News and Michael Lindemann maintain that they are not guilty of defaming Dr. Greer. In order to give Steven Greer a full opportunity to express his position, most of the text of his written rebuttal to our June 1 story follows. [His complete text can be found at the CSETI web site, http://www.cseti.org]. CNI News editor Michael Lindemann also spoke with Greer by phone for over an hour on Saturday, June 7 in order to better understand his position. Further details from that conversation follow Greer's text. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== REPLY TO MICHAEL LINDEMANN/CNI ARTICLE [by Steven M. Greer M.D.] 3 June 1997 We are in receipt of the Michael Lindemann/CNI News article regarding the April 9, 1997 briefings in Washington DC. It is unfortunate that Mr. Lindemann decided to write and distribute such an article without first consulting with CSETI regarding the numerous false accusations mentioned therein. The Lindemann/CNI News article is filled with falsehoods, poorly researched information and egregious and libelous statements regarding the Best Available Evidence briefing document. Lindemann never called or wrote to me or CSETI to ascertain the facts of the matter before publishing statements which are defaming, false and blatantly inaccurate.... Regarding the Best Available Evidence document (hereinafter referred to as the BAE), the following are the facts related to its creation, concept, title, development and use: >After beginning the CSETI Project Starlight UFO/ETI disclosure effort in the summer of 1993, I was invited to a meeting at Mr. Laurance Rockefeller's JY Ranch near Jackson Hole WY, where I met Mrs Marie (Bootsie) Galbraith. I shared with Ms. Galbraith and the others gathered there our plans regarding collecting the Best Available Evidence regarding UFOs and our plans to provide briefings for world leaders and the public on the subject. >Mrs. Galbraith indicated a keen interest in assisting with this effort. Subsequently I provided to her, to Mr. Rockefeller and to the BSW Foundation a full complement of our plans, strategy and an outline of the BAE, including inclusion and exclusion criteria for cases, the title 'Best Available Evidence', the concept and strategy for its use, etc. > For nearly 2 years we collaborated on this matter, and CSETI continued to provide consultation and strategic input. In addition to my creating the title, concept, criteria and strategy for the use of the BAE, I flew to New York to meet with Galbraith et al and spent considerable time discussing specific cases to be selected for the BAE. Additionally, numerous hours were spent via long distance telephone discussing the BAE with Mrs. Galbraith and in selecting specific cases to be used. >Subsequently, Mrs. Galbraith and BSW Foundation, with funding assistance from Mr. Rockefeller and others, offered to take on the task of completing and writing the BAE. The BAE was to be a collection of classic, if traditional, UFO cases of strong evidential integrity. It was decided that my efforts should go into obtaining extraordinary evidence and deep cover first-hand military and intelligence data and witness testimony. >It was always the explicit and repeatedly stated intention of Mrs. Galbraith, BSW, Mr. Rockefeller and CSETI to create a BAE which would be a PUBLIC DOMAIN, NON-COPYRIGHTED DOCUMENT which would be used to brief VIPs, world and national leaders. We worked, without compensation and freely in good faith, to create such a BAE document. >Subsequently, BSW and Mrs. Galbraith hired Don Berliner and Antonio Huneus [sic] to work on writing the BAE, although Berliner was the primary paid writer/researcher. >In the fall of 1995, some 2 years after first providing the concept, title, strategy etc to Mrs. Galbraith et al, she mailed me a NON-COPYRIGHTED Best Available Evidence document to be used for briefing leaders as stated above. We SPECIFICALLY AND EXPLICITLY DISCUSSED THE USE OF THIS JOINTLY CREATED DOCUMENT AS A PERMANENTLY NON-COPYRIGHTED, PUBLIC DOMAIN DOCUMENT. Mrs. Galbraith reiterated Mr. Rockefellers intent to have this document become a briefing tool to be freely used for its intended purpose -- a purpose and concept originated by me personally. > Unfortunately, subsequent to this, Mrs. Galbraith, in collaboration with the so-called and newly formed UFO Research Coalition attempted to seize this jointly created BAE document, copyright it, and restrict its use, in clear and reprehensible violation of the spirit of how the document was created. In doing so, Mrs. Galbraith violated our working agreement, and further violated her arrangement with the founder and principal of BSW foundation, a long time friend of Mrs. Galbraith. >Both the principal of BSW and CSETI protested this extraordinary and divisive act, but Mrs. Galbraith and the UFO Research Coalition persisted in this behavior. I wrote Mr. Rockefeller personally informing him of this treachery. I further informed him that we intended to use the BAE document, which I originated and named and for which I selected many of the cases, in the manner which he - and all of us - had intended: as a non-copyrighted, public domain document, jointly created in good faith, to be used for educating world leaders on the UFO subject. No corrective instructions were ever sent to us regarding this clearly stated position. >Subsequently, an historic gathering was convened in Washington DC on April 9, 1997 at which a number of congressional offices, congressmen and other VIPs were present. As part of the materials provided, this non-copyrighted, public domain BAE was presented as a complete document, as well as an executive summary in the larger CSETI Briefing Document ( a separate item) which was given to the VIPs in attendance. This use is wholly in keeping with the spirit and stated purpose behind the collaborative creation of the BAE document. It was not, nor has it ever been, sold by CSETI, contrary to false and defaming statements made by others. This BAE clearly stated that it was written by Berliner, so how could it have been plagiarized? Unfortunately, if appears that Lindemann does not even know the definition of the word, since it requires the taking of another's written material and without crediting the writer, claiming to have written it. On the title page, we did also credit CSETI and myself for the title, strategy , concept etc, and it is wholly appropriate that we did so, since it is the documented truth. >The CSETI Briefing Document which currently is available for purchase does not contain any part or reference to this BAE document. We have behaved entirely ethically and within our rights in this matter, and, unlike other parties who have aggrieved us, have refused to try to seize this BAE document, copyright it, or make plans for its sale. >At this juncture, due to the unpleasantness of the entire matter, we are not even providing this document gratis to VIPs who should receive it. >I should point out that the principal of BSW, who provided significant funding (along with Mr. Rockefeller) for the writing of the BAE, has been quite concerned over the attempt to seize and copyright the document. Notwithstanding the fact that BSW partially funded the document, Mrs. Galbraith and the so-called UFO Research Coalition will not even allow BSW to purchase copies of the document for free distribution to VIPs and world leaders. >Lindemann/CNI News also falsely claims that I altered the BAE document to make it look like it was written by me. This is completely false: the BAE document, except for the title page which was changed to reflect the true, above stated origins and credits, was provided to the VIPs with only very minor and occassional changes from the original given to CSETI by Mrs. Galbraith. The above is a true and factual account of this matter. There are multiple witnesses and dated documents which support these facts. It is profoundly regrettable that Lindemann/CNI News failed to engage in due diligence to ascertain these facts prior to publishing the false, defaming and libelous article in question. In the Lindemann/CNI News article, Lindemann states that I am "grossly dishonest," am possessed of "deplorably bad judgement", am a "plagiarist" who acted with "stupidity" and that I acted with "treachery". These are serious, defaming, false and libelous comments. Mr. Lindemann and CNI News must publish a full retraction and apology, or appropriate actions will be taken against Mr. Lindemann and CNI News and any others engaged in similar defaming and libelous behavior. I have watched for 18 months as the BAE document was seized, misrepresented by many as originating from Galbraith et al and generally used in bad faith by those who falsely lay claim to it. As a gentleman and as a person who sincerely wishes for the general advancement of the UFO subject, I have chosen, up to now, to be restrained on this matter. But the appearance of such libelous and defaming comments in a publication and on the internet cannot and must not go unanswered.... I recommend that the public refer to the CSETI Report on the DC Briefings, available from CSETI and also located on the CSETI website (www.cseti.org). This reply constitutes my official public response on this matter, and further inquiries will be referred to this document... [end of Greer text] ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== As the foregoing statement makes plain, Steven Greer distributed a version of the BAE which he claims was not covered by the UFO Research Coalition copyright. Moreover, he claims he had verbal assurances, given repeatedly during 1994 and 1995, that the BAE would not be copyrighted, and that CSETI as well as other organizations would have access to it for public education purposes. In a phone conversation with CNI News editor Michael Lindemann on June 7, Greer said that he considers the subsequent copyrighting of the BAE by the UFO Research Coalition, and the exclusion of CSETI from any rights to the document, to be a theft of intellectual property and a breach of verbal contract, among other things. He also restated his conviction that the version of the BAE that he distributed during the DC briefings was not covered under the copyright. Nonetheless, he conceded that fighting with the UFO Research Coalition over the copyright issue at this point is probably fruitless. "I made a mistake and I regret not having legally pursued this... a year and a half ago, because all that did was to put off something that's going to have to be dealt with now," Greer told CNI News. "We certainly could have gotten an injunction against copyright at that point, and it's going to be harder to get that now. That was a mistake." Greer also said he had no intention of using the document again. "They [the UFO Research Coalition] have asked us to stop using the document and we've agreed to do so," he said. In contrast to Greer's position, Richard Hall of the UFO Research Coalition told CNI News that Greer's use of the document in Washington DC was a clear act of copyright infringement. According to Hall, a letter to Greer from an attorney representing the Coalition called Greer's action "piracy" and accused him of "copyright infringement" under Federal Copyright Statutes 17 U.S.C.#101 et seq and 17 U.S.C.#405(a). Furthermore, the attorney said Greer's act of replacing the document's cover made him guilty of "false advertising," "unfair competition" and "false designation of origin" under the Federal Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C.#1125(a). Further, although Greer's naming of author Don Berliner on the replacement CSETI cover protected Greer from the charge of plagiarism, it constituted another infraction by falsely associating author Berliner with the CSETI organization, an association Berliner regards as disparaging to his own reputation. A statement posted (as of June 9) at the top of the Fund for UFO Research web site (http://www.fufor.org) says: "Alert: The UFO Research Coalition has given Dr. Steven Greer and CSETI legal warning to stop distributing or selling copies of a copyrighted report written by Don Berliner and prepared for Laurence [sic] Rockefeller; and to stop misrepresenting its origins." This alert is linked to a longer statement inside the site, which reads in part: "Dr. Steven Greer, MD, leader of CSETI (the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has improperly published and distributed scores of copies of a preliminary draft of the Best Available Evidence briefing document. He knew it was original material of the UFO Research Coalition which was protected by copyright law against unauthorized reproduction. "His claim that his version of the document was not copyrighted is pointless, since all drafts of a copyrighted work are automatically protected by copyright law. His claim that he was told that none of the versions would be copyrighted is without basis. "Greer removed the original cover of the document and substituted one of his own that states that he and the CSETI 'Starlight Team' are responsible for the 'concept, title, strategy and case selection.' In reality, neither Greer nor CSETI had any involvement at any stage in the preparation of the genuine document. "Greer's pirated version of the document retained the name of the true author -- Don Berliner -- to avoid accusations of plagiarism. Berliner states emphatically that he received no input from Greer or any of his associates at any stage of the planning and writing of the document. In particular, Greer's claim that his 'Starlight Team' selected the cases summarized in the document is completely empty, as Berliner insists he, alone, chose the cases for the document. And he finds the implication that he worked with Greer and CSETI to be highly insulting, and damaging to his reputation as a professional writer." On June 9, Richard Hall told CNI News editor Michael Lindemann that a long and detailed statement of the UFO Research Coalition's position and accusations against Greer and CSETI/Starlight, including a point by point rebuttal of Greer's letter to Lindemann and CNI News, was in the final stages of preparation. This statement will be posted on the FUFOR web site before the end of this week. Interested readers are encouraged to visit that site [http://www.fufor.org] for more information. In the spring of 1996, when the final version of the BAE was first published and distributed by the UFO Research Coalition, Steven Greer complained in a letter to Laurance Rockefeller that the final document unfairly deleted any credit to him and CSETI. In answer to this complaint, author Don Berliner and co-author Antonio Huneeus both wrote statements specifically denying any involvement by Greer in the writing of the document. The statement of Huneeus, dated April 2, 1996, notes that he was contacted as early as the fall of 1994 by Sandra Wright of the BSW Foundation to assist in creating the BAE. Ms. Wright was then and still is a friend and associate of Greer and CSETI. Huneeus says he asked Ms. Wright at the beginning whether or not Steven Greer would be involved, because he did not want to work with Greer. He says he was assured by Ms. Wright that Greer would not be involved in the BAE project. On that basis, Huneeus agreed to participate, although it would not be until August of 1995 that he actively joined the project. To summarize: Steven Greer and the UFO Research Coalition hold very different views concerning how much Greer and CSETI were involved in creating the BAE. Greer says the Coalition stole intellectual property from him, broke verbal agreements, unfairly copyrighted the final document and are wrong in claiming that the version Greer distributed in Washington is covered by that copyright. The UFO Research Coalition says that Greer had almost nothing to do with creating the BAE, and that the version he distributed in Washington is covered by their copyright. They therefore accuse Greer of "pirating" the document and infringing their copyright; and, for substituting his own cover, they further accuse him of false advertising, unfair competition and false designation of origin. The UFO Research Coalition does hold the copyright on the BAE. To change that, Greer would have to undertake legal action against the Coalition, and Greer concedes that such an action would probably not succeed at this point. In any event, Greer says he does not plan to fight the Coalition, and he will stop using the document as ordered. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== EDITORIAL: DID CNI NEWS DEFAME STEVEN GREER? by Michael Lindemann Editor In the June 1 article on Steven Greer's April briefings in Washington, I wrote that "potentially important information was presented in a dignified and persuasive way to a small but significant group of people. We see evidence that Greer's organization is making good, at least to some degree, on its stated strategy." With respect to the press briefing in particular, I wrote: "The combined impact made by this lineup of witnesses was extremely impressive... we feel that the reporters who attended must have gone home with plenty of food for thought, and perhaps this will make them more ready to do responsible reporting on the UFO subject at a later time." The point of such comments was to show approval and support for Greer's efforts. I then characterized his use of the BAE document as "treacherous," "dishonest," "stupid" and "deplorably bad judgment." These personal attacks on Greer did not belong in a news story, and for that I apologize. I also incorrectly accused him of plagiarism, an error which has been explained and corrected in the preceding article. But did I defame Steven Greer? No, I did not. The preceding story demonstrates that the BAE document Greer distributed in Washington is a nearly identical version of the document copyrighted by the UFO Research Coalition. Whether or not Greer's version is covered by the copyright can only be settled by legal experts. But Greer knew before the DC briefings that his legal right to use the BAE was questionable at best and would certainly be contested by the UFO Research Coalition. Furthermore, he had amassed hundreds of pages of other documents in his overall briefing package, so much other documentation that inclusion of the disputed BAE could be considered superfluous. Furthermore, Greer could not fail to be aware that the UFO Research Coalition strongly disagrees with CSETI philosophy and methodology, and therefore could be counted upon to react negatively to his appropriation of a document they regard as their own. Greer spent several years creating the conditions for these April briefings to take place. He has taken extraordinary pains to protect names of witnesses as well as government participants, because the situation is so sensitive for all concerned. Yet, he is willing to introduce into this situation a document which cannot fail to arouse suspicion and outrage in various quarters, a document which attracts unwanted allegations of wrongdoing to himself and CSETI and which can potentially stain an otherwise promising program in Washington DC. He is willing to hand this tainted document to the very government people he most hopes to impress. As a person genuinely sympathetic to the intent of Greer's efforts, I maintain without apology that his use of the BAE showed "deplorably bad judgment" and was an act of stupidity. For the good of his ongoing efforts, I hope he avoids such ill-advised actions in the future. Was his action "treacherous" and "dishonest"? If the UFO Research Coalition view of his actions prevails, the answer would probably be yes. That view, of course, is in dispute, and short of legal action, that dispute might remain unresolved. The terms "treacherous" and "dishonest" therefore represent a biased judgment on my part, but insofar as they reflect one side in a pre-existing dispute, I am guilty only of taking sides, not of defamation. If I were writing the June 1 article today, though, I would leave it to the attorneys to sort out where the treachery lies. In conclusion, I regret that this has episode may have caused erosion of trust and cooperation between various UFO organizations, all of whom, I think, are sincerely interested in getting to the truth of the UFO phenomenon. I hope all parties to this dispute will put the matter behind them as soon as possible and get on with the difficult and important work at hand. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== This CNI News Special Report may be redistributed in all media.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 10 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:54:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:51:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Regarding... >Date: 09 Jun 97 03:04:20 EDT >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Theresa asked: >What does it say for Thurmond's credibility first and foremost. Theresa, If it helps put this in perspective, an Associated Press release states: [...] Corso, with help from William J. Birnes, wrote that the government confiscated the UFO and gleaned secrets from it that led to advances such as laser technology, fiber optics, night-vision capabilities and the microchip. But Chris Cimko, Thurmond's chief spokeswoman, said a 21-page outline from Corso on which the foreword was based did not mention UFOs. It was presented as a memoir by Corso, titled "I Walked With Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence," she said. Corso was not available for comment Thursday, said a relative who answered the telephone at his home in Fort Pierce, Fla. Corso handled military matters for Thurmond during separate stints in the 1960s and 1970s, Cimko said. She said that both she and Thurmond's chief of staff also were told by Corso's son that the original book had been changed. "We've been totally blindsided by this man and his publisher," Cimko said. "The book that's coming out is not the book outline that was provided to us." [End] If there has been sleight of hand, Thurmond would seem to be an innocent victim. As for credibility, it appears there is much in Corso's book, _aside from the Roswell angle_, which is incredulous and factually challenged. As Dennis mentions, Karl Pflock reviews Corso's book in the July issue of the MUFON UFO Journal and I would be surprised if the many, significant, _factual_ anomalies highlighted will be disputed. Corso's claims that technological advances were Corso/ET inspired should alone be sufficient grounds for being guarded. That claim - devoid of any substantive evidence of course - simply ain't so, but Corso presumably knew that when he wrote the manuscript. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: KAnder6444@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:57:57 -0400 Subject: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: ExposeUFO@aol.com (Bill Hamilton) >Date: Tues. 10 June 1997, 04:26:48 (EDT) >To:updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Another Roswell Cover Story >"Roswell was not a MOGUL weather ballon that crashed at >Roswell but a top secret "lifting body" Bill, you bring up some good points. Even though I have a bit of skeptic in me about most UFO sightings, there are two questions that have remained unanswered in my mind that someone might be able to answer. 1) I lived in Alamogordo in 1974. I heard first hand from two witnesses about sightings of a large disc craft flying above the Sacramento Mountains/Lincoln National Forest. One flew over my neighbor as he was traveling to El Paso and cut the power of his engine. The other was driving with his wife to Timberon, the land project I worked at and saw in a remote area, a large disc release a number of smaller discs. So with or without a Roswell crash, what the heck is going on down there? And if some testing of a secret "lifting body" was being done in 1947 wouldn't it make sense that after 50 YEARS, it would be ok to talk about it in public? Even in 1974, if the military was testing something big/round with smaller modules and it was something "like a spy craft" wouldn't we see some of the results by now in 1997 or at least some history of testing that went on? (I'm clueless about military procedures, so forgive my ignorance on this) A good criminal can also cover their tracks by planting info of what they would "like" people to think happened. I do wonder about things like this. Kathleen Andersen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 S u b s c r i b e r s P l e a s e N o t e From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:41:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:41:24 -0400 Subject: S u b s c r i b e r s P l e a s e N o t e S u b s c r i b e r s P l e a s e N o t e As of midnight June 28 through midnight July 13th UFO UpDates will be off-line. Sue and I goin' fishin' in Roswell. What this means is that UFO UpDates will not be receiving or posting messages. I realise that this will cause withdrawl problems for some but this being a manually operated List nescessitates a temporary shutdown. Besides, it'll give several parties here a breather!<G> ___________________________________________________ For those subscribers planning to be in Roswell, and who would like to find out who else from this List will be there before, during and after the 50th Anniversary gathering: Send me a message with the dates you'll be there and where you'll be staying and, if you like, the telephone number where you'll be staying. I'll add that information to a list and circulate it, via private e-mail to all contributors to that list. Sue and I look forward to meeting with any UpDates subscribers who'll be in Roswell at the same time as us. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Military Records to be online soon! From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:48:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:20:52 -0400 Subject: Military Records to be online soon! All, Today I recieved a copy of Jesse Marcel Snr.'s Military file. I will be scanning and cleaning up the pages as best I can and posting them on my www site. This is the beginning of my project/paper related to Jesse Marcel and Roswell. If any of you have government documents you would like scanned, just ask and I will gladly do the job for free, provided I get a copy of material for myself. Maybe the UFO archive should be online? Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jun 97 01:28:04 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:24:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:54:02 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Hi James, >If there has been sleight of hand, Thurmond would seem to be an >innocent victim. I understand that and agree. Except for one thing. And I'm not sure I can explain it clearly. I don't think the content should have mattered one way or the other. If Thurmond truly felt about Corso the way he wrote that he did, wouldn't he have checked into Corso's UFO claims as soon as he heard about them? Or was Thurmond sugar-coating it a bit in the first place? Know what I mean? I guess what I am thinking might be of more importance here is the reason Thurmond wrote it in the first place. And also, I need to see what Thurmond actually says in there. Which I won't see till the book comes out. >As for credibility, it appears there is much in Corso's book, _aside >from the Roswell angle_, which is incredulous and factually >challenged. Yes, I know. <sigh> But I figure it can't be any worse than the last two books on the Roswell incident that I read. And, Corso's actually sounds like it may be entertaining in a humourous sort of way. It's also the 50th anniversary of the USAF this year. I've been trying to find new books about that to read, but I guess no one is writing those. Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:33:00 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? THIS IS A UFO UPDATES POST ONLY! From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > Thomas Deuley contacts me using a email address with his name > in it to try to undermine Bob Dean and his activities toward hearings in > Congress. I talk to Steven Greer and Greer tells me that when he Greer > started getting involved pushing for hearings, Deuley told him that the > military witnesses that came forward were not to be believed not one. Uh Ed, Could it be because Dean, despite being a charming and charismatic man, simply is not credible? What are the penalties for perjury to Congress? These witnesses need to be squeaky clean. Stories aren't going to be enough. Someone MUST know exactly what the witnesses are going to testify to and who else they might name in their testimony and what those people would testify to if called. All the bases must be covered Ed. If every Tom, Dick and Harry on the Internet can pick these witnesses apart -- you can be sure that Congress will too. The witnesses must have documentation and or corroboration. One discredited witness will do in the entire thing. That's the way I see it. And if the leader of this movement to bring about the hearings is a guy who claims to be in contact with ETs, well -- he better have proof, cause he's gonna be laughed all the way back to NC. Hearing beeping sounds in the distance, while it sounds interesting, becomes not so interesting when the beeping sound turns out to be an owl. Or maybe the guy who wrote that article was part of the UFO coverup as well. Who knows? That is such an easy thing to claim. Impossible to refute. Oh and all that video evidence, that better be real evidence, no airplanes, no balloons, no models suspended from wires. Or else you have problems. This is big deal. Congress of the United States -- something we have all been waiting for. A chance to tell our side of the story and present our evidence. If our evidence looks anything like the Santilli film or something that is presented in UFO Universe Magazine, then we have problems again. Let's not screw it up. We might not get another chance. Excuse me for wanting it done in a more professional manner. I just want this subject called ufology -- something I spend a great deal of time defending presented in a positive light. And Ed, as for your stories about Karl, Kal, Dennis, Tom, Hynek, and whoever else you think is part of the UFO coverup, well, that is getting old. Real old. You are telling stories. A lot of the people you give a hard time are people I call my friends and I don't like seeing them being crapped on. Give us a break. Present some evidence or be quiet. I have written many replies to your posts, but I always wind up deleting them because I thought what's the use? But after talking with you today, I know you CAN be reasonable. Be reasonable -- quit attacking. Quit muckraking. Present some facts. Promote ORTK. Do something positive. Investigate something. Not everyone who has a story to tell is telling the truth. Get out your BS detector. Go to work. I don't consider Tom Deuley or Dennis Stacy to be my foes. I look at them as people who are working to learn the truth about UFOs. Maybe they go about it in a manner that is different from you. They want to see evidence. They might not believe everyone who comes down the pike, but I do think that they will give people a fair chance. MUFON promotes the scientific investigation of UFOs and that is where they are different from some other groups. They are about science and understanding -- not just another bunch of stories. I think that the UFO community is served much better with MUFON, FUFOR and CUFOS having all joined to form the UFO Research Coalition. Who has more documentation on UFOs? Documentation -- not just stories? What's the harm in having evidence? What's the rush? Ed, let's get over all this. Let's put it behind us and move on. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: K. Bagchus/M. Hendriks/Les Sceptiques du From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:06:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:17:23 -0400 Subject: Re: K. Bagchus/M. Hendriks/Les Sceptiques du JC: This is a reply to Karel Bagchus regarding Monique Hendriks & an invitation to her. Also, a message to ALL skeptics (and specifically Les Sceptiques du Qu=E9bec inc.) regarding the "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals" follows same. .... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Karel had written last month: >Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:24:23 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Update on Dutch UFO-Reporing Center >Hi there, >I guess I'm having another bad day over here. Last week I >translated an article about Monique Hendriks and her UFO-Reporting >Centre. I wrote her a letter, and got her reply today which was >kind of a disappointment to me. >I asked her if she would be interested in sharing her cases and >research with this list, and her response was: "When you dive into >the Internet, you get an overwhelming amount of information that is >absolutely not true. The sincerity-percentage of Internet Info is >very low. That is the reason why I absolutely do not want my serious research to be spread through the Internet." ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - My reply: JC: It is unfortunate she feels this way. However, just because information is in a book does not guarantee its validity either. There is information in life, books, etc. that is not true as well. When a researcher gives you information that can be checked, any reader can explore it. If sources are properly given, that person can discover its accuracy or lack of it and fully investigate the topic on his/her own. These are steps anyone must follow to determine the "truthfulness" of any subject and the information any researcher must supply to support his investigation. For those new to the list, this is what I attempted to do when I created the website http://www.li.net/~rjcohen I believe I have succeeded. So far, NO SKEPTIC has refuted the information in the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals. The "checkable" information there is fully footnoted & thoroughly researched. If the following quote excerpt from CNI News attributed to James Oberg is accurate, ** "I am a lifelong UFO buff, a founding fellow of CSICOP and longtime associate of Phil Klass, a colleague and friend of J. A. Hynek from Northwestern days, am fascinated with the folklore aspects of the UFO beliefs in our culture, and a specialist in spaceflight operations, both American and Russian... Mr. Oberg's essays and the rebuttals expose great ignorance on the part of "one of the founding fellows" of CSICOP regarding J. Allen Hynek, James McDonald and their research, and gives solid data gleaned from those "slandered researchers" regarding the validity of some UFOs as probable ET craft. Any thoughtful, analytical, researching person can draw his/her own conclusions concerning what I have said by simply exploring and digging into what is there. This researcher has also issued an open challenge to ALL skeptics to refute the information therein. Until they do so in a reasonable manner acceptable to most, this author firmly believes that Hynek's and McDonald's work is unequivocal and "the case for some UFOs, as most probably being non-terrestrial craft, was proven years ago." Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen P.S. Was hoping to hear from Les Sceptiques du Qu=E9bec inc. You've had this in your possession for 4 months, were interested at the time, but nothing from you yet. I mailed the "3rd Oberg essay" and my "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7" to you a second time immediately after receipt of the letter below. Hopefully, the interior linkages now provided within the essays themselves, found in the website above, will make it even easier to analyze. Since I've tried my best to have it wide open for analysis, it is earnestly hoped you would reciprocate in a likewise manner. This researcher had reasoned that in 7 essays, he probably made some mistakes somewhere, would therefore possibly have to adjust what he wrote, and that the esteemed members of your group would perhaps be able to help him find any major problems with it. Sincerely, J.C. P.P.S Monique Hendriks, I don't know what you have written but, this is what you are missing out on. We cordially invite you to join the festivities. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----original letter to Les Sceptiques du Qu=E9bec inc.---- -Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:47:26 -0500 From: Pierre-Normand Houle <pnhoule@aei.ca> Reply-To: pnhoule@aei.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rjcohen@li.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: A manual for sceptic militants! UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:39 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A manual for sceptic militants! ...snip... > James Oberg, NASA, had written an essay titled (In Search of > Gordon Cooper's UFOs.1-3) which challenged Gordon Cooper's > statements regarding UFOs and derided various other UFO > researchers. The reply to it (Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7), can be > considered a manual and, most definitely, something every skeptic > should know. Since you asked, I'll be happy to post both his essay > and that reply. > If you miss any portions of this, it will be archived on the web > at: > http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates (J.C. Note 6/10/97: Exact location at ufomind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ or, better yet, all parts are hyper-linked at my personal website at: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen ) > Cordially looking forward to your future response regarding same. > Respectfully, > Jerry Cohen > E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Dear Jerry Cohen, Thanks very much for mailing this most interesting essay. I look forward for the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals 1/7. Only parts 1 & 2 of <In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs> made their way to my mailbox but I found part 3 on www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates. Most of my colleagues read English quite well. I'm sure they too are going enjoy and benefit from this reading. Cincerely, Pierre-Normand Houle pnhoule@aei.ca Les Sceptiques du Qu=E9bec inc. sceptiq@ibm.net -----end letter---- ** Quote excerpt from: =3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D= =3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D >From CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 4, Part 2 -- May 1, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence =3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D= =3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D and posted From: legion@werple.net.au Subject: CSETI Update; MUFON and Oberg Comment To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 07:28:03 +1000 (EST)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:42:07 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > Those who subscribe to the view (I am not one) that > NICAP fell because the CIA sought to thwart Keyhoe's > efforts will now have to deal with a new charge, made > in Jim Keith's just-published CASEBOOK ON THE MEN IN > BLACK (p. 107): that "Major Keyhoe ... functioned as > a UFO disinformation agent for the government." Is > no one safe from the McCarthyites in our midst? Speaking of Jim Kieth, Strange Universe just re-aired their black helicopter segment last night and their interview with alleged alien/MILAB abductee Licia Davidson who has claimed helicopter harrasement. Keith spoke about his research and off-the-record testimony he has received from pilots and other military men involved with this very odd phenomenon. How much of his information is accurate and factual I couldn't say, but the so-called black helicopter phenomenon is undeniably real. If anyone doubts this to be the case than I would suggest reviewing Lawerence Fawcett's book Clear Intent and look at the case files for 1975 when the association between cattle mutilations and black helicopters was at it's peak in the central United States. As far as Kieth and making wild accusations about Keyhoe being a government disinformation agent, I have to say I've seen worse. I do get rather tired of seeing these constant accusations of UFO investigators being on the government pay-roll with orders to undermine the research. It reminds me of the Cooper days. I'm not saying that I believe that intellignce penetrations of UFO organizations have never happened, because I personally believe that they have. I am saying that from where I'm sitting it seems the witch hunts have already started. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: IRC Channels From: "Anthony Chippendale" <chipp@mail.clara.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:10:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:55:34 -0400 Subject: Re: IRC Channels The #ETs channel on DALnet is an excellent place to meet fellow ufologists. There are regular meetings everyday at 12Noon (PST)/8PM (GMT) with main meetings every saturday. Visit the #ETS web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/6682/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:46:07 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:54:30 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:30:46 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >>From: EdKomarek@aol.com >>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >>MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes >>By Ed Komarek >>6/9/97 >>Others that got a lot of media attention from the mainstream press were >>similarly targeted and unfairly attacked.(Maybe the Hopkins folks have a few >>words to say on this too.) It seems to me that the MUFON Journal is rapidly >>becoming a debunking Journal. See Kent Jeffery's honest change of heart >>right at the Roswell 50th and when 20,000+ signatures have been collected, in >>the next issue. Stacy gives of all people Jim Moesley a prepublication copy. >> Stacy then says he is going to publish a attack on Corso by Karl Pflock in >>the issue after that. Expect Stacy to publish a attack on Greer soon >>thereafter. >Jim Mosely got a copy because he did that rarest of things in ufology -- he >called me on the phone and asked for one. Hahahaha. God, how I love this field. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: hvdp | dstacy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:53:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:06:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:54:02 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >Theresa asked: >>What does it say for Thurmond's credibility first and foremost. >Theresa, >If it helps put this in perspective, an Associated Press release >states: >But Chris Cimko, Thurmond's chief spokeswoman, said a 21-page outline >from Corso on which the foreword was based did not mention UFOs. >It was presented as a memoir by Corso, titled "I Walked With Giants: >My Career in Military Intelligence," she said. >Corso was not available for comment Thursday, said a relative who >answered the telephone at his home in Fort Pierce, Fla. >Corso handled military matters for Thurmond during separate stints in >the 1960s and 1970s, Cimko said. >She said that both she and Thurmond's chief of staff also were told >by Corso's son that the original book had been changed. >"We've been totally blindsided by this man and his publisher," Cimko >said. "The book that's coming out is not the book outline that was >provided to us." >[End] It would be interesting to see if the office can provide a copy of the alleged outline. The release that this obviously came from was well prepared and designed to deflect any criticism that Thurmond might receive from those in the Military or his constitutents. The environment, on the "Hill", is well trained in media manipulation and face-saving (not to mention the ability to "cover thy rear"), which is necessary in the political arena. Thurmond, obviously, got caught with his pants down. His staff is trying to initiate damage control before someone else asks questions to which there are no clear answers, leaving the Member open to expressing his "opinion". I'm sure that Thurmond is able to take care of himself, but that wouldn't diminish the desire of the staff to maintain some measure of control over the story. I don't believe that Thurmond intended to lend any credibility to Corso's claims in his Foreward, regardless of whether he was aware of their thrust or not. It is possible that he might have declined the honor if he was aware of the UFO connection, which is what his staff would have us believe, but they have provided only annecdotal statements to that effect. But the statements that I've seen are only opinion and comment, and don't provide any "evidence" as to the validity of Corso's claims.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jun 97 09:16:36 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:07:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:54:02 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, "incredulous"????????? Look it up, mate. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Corso Book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jun 97 08:05:23 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:06:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso Book I got the Corso book yesterday, and have read about half of it. Hard to know what to make of Corso. He is who he says he is, according to every military expert who has checked him out. He makes it clear that he was not present for the Roswell crash recovery, but knows all of the details from files he read years later. Essentially, he tells the "traditional" story of the Roswell crash, but makes the unusual claim that Jesse Marcel was there on the night of the crash and watched the recovery of the crashed craft and alien bodies. As he tells it, one alien survived the crash essentially unhurt and was shot by soldiers as it attempted to escape. He says that he saw a dead alien preserved in a glass "coffin" in some sort of gel preservative when he pried open a crate in a hanger and looked inside. Years later, according to his story, he was given custody of all of the Roswell files. That's as far as I've gotten. Fascinating reading, if nothing else, but written like a very bad sci fi novel. He needed a better "ghost writer"!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 The UFO Community Must UNITE From: ExposeUFOs@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:37:14 -0400 Subject: The UFO Community Must UNITE If the truth about the UFO/ET Phenomenon is every going to be disclosed the UFO community needs to stop fighting each other and start working together. For the last few years I have watched as Ufological Organizations and Ufologists trash, disrespect, and slander each other. This does not serve any useful purpose other than delaying the disclosure of the UFO/ET phonomenon to the public. We are doing exactly what the people who are keeping the coverup going want us to do. They want us to fight each other so we will be divided and waist precious time, money, energy, and resources. Every time we fight with each other we buy them more time to bury the UFO/ET Reality even deeper. One reason why we the UFO community fight between ourselves so much is that we all have differences. It is natural for us to have differences just like researchers in any other field of science would. We all have differences in opinion, belief, faith, and science. But we should not let our differences drive us apart when we all have three beliefs in common. These beliefs are that extraterrestrial life forms are visting earth, the government knows more about it than we do, and that the public has a right to know. We need to put aside our differences and focus on the beliefs that we have in common which were just mentioned. If we all worked together on the basis of those three beliefs and put aside our differences we could expose the UFO/ET reality MUCH faster and much more effectively. This does not mean that we can not express our opinions and peacefully debate issues but this means that we do not do anything what so every that would slow down the truth coming out or hurt each others research or efforts at a disclosure. Is fighting about our differences more important than working together and getting a disclosure? Of course some of us have more that differences of opinion with each other and some of us feel that some Ufologist may be government agents. That should not matter. If we all worked together then we could easily spot who was cooperating and working toward a disclosure and who was not. If we all worked together we would easily see the hold outs and the government agents that were working against a disclosure. This way we could quickly sort out our friends and our enemies without taking the chance of calling some one a "spy", "disinformation agent", or "government plant" when it could really just be a misunderstanding. As Ufologists the one thing we all need to do is work together toward a government disclosure of the UFO/ET reality. That should be the goal of each of us and each of our organizations. It should not matter who gets the credit, which UFO organization gets the credit, whose briefing papers are used, or who gets the publicity. Did we become interested in the field of Ufology to get publicity and to get credit? I hope that we became interested in the field of Ufology to find the truth and now that we know the truth we should work so that EVERYONE knows it by working toward a government disclosure. If we all worked together we could pool witnesses, funds, information, and resorces to push a disclosure of the UFO/ET Presence faster and more professionally than any one organization could do alone. To me there is a simularity between Ufology and the Christian Church. All Christian Chruches believe in God and Jesus but they disagree and fight about the their differences. Because they fight and preach against each other they do not accomplish their goal of getting the world to believe in Jesus and God. In my opinion the Ufological community is exactly the same. We all believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life forms but we fight over our differences. We need to focus on what we have in common so we can have a world wide disclosure on the UFO/ET reality. I admit that I am young and that I have not had as much experiance in Ufology as the rest of you have, but trust me I know that all of the fighting amongst the UFO/ET community is not going to help get a discolsure any faster. My dream is that one day soon that there will be a disclosure on the UFO/ET reality. If the Ufological community keeps on fighting each other this will not happen. I am asking all Ufologist and all Ufo Organizations to work together so we can have a disclosure. So please lets all work together so we will not be doing the governments job for them. Take Care and God Bless. William Hand
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jun 97 09:16:33 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:08:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:27:29 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >Regarding the Fugo balloon controversy that has been on this list for the >past week or so, I would like to make some observations and queries. >Firstly, as I understand it, the Air Force has not come out officially with >this explanation. This is only a rumour that such an explanation is about >to be released. If this is absolutely confirmed, then please let me know, >and where the source emanates for the confirmation. The story about the Fugo balloon and Horton lifting body is in the current issue of Popular Mechanics. Unfortunately I don't have a copy. Mike Hesemann brought a copy to the San Marino UFO Conference (at least I think it was Mike who brought it to dinner) last weekend, and Mike, Philip Mantle, Stan Friedman, and everyone else at dinner all had a good belly laugh over it. At first blush, anyway, it seems just too ridiculous for words. I wanted to buy a copy yesterday, but my news stand didn't have this issue yet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Alfred's Odd Ode #146 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:25:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:11:36 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #146 Apology to MW #146 (For June 11, 1997) I played Columbus when I was a kid. The third grade -- the school play. I strode ashore to claim America! I was a *hero*. I began our day. And all the kids were in their costumes. And brownies flashed to save the moment. Oooo=92s and aaaaah=92s just filled the air. Smiles ruled in mad atonement. And so began the myth I=92d hear Repeated to this time. Classrooms still attempt to teach This charming, hateful lie. "Well, you gotta teach =91em something." And with this I must agree. "And we have to keep it positive." And there I point at your disease. Anything that=92s covered up=20 Is an unclean wound that festers. From UFO=92s, and JFK To Governmental jesters. Lie to kids, and make =91em hate you! Lie to kids, and treat them soft! Lie to kids, and they=92ll desert you, Shine you on, and jerk you off! The alien view sees Columbus more clearly. It is unencumbered by party line. Columbus knew that the world was round And most folks thought so at the time! Riches and Power were the drivers! Christ was the fire of excuse! There was no near mutiny enroute And it began *an horrific abuse*!=20 =20 The watchers from space saw the terror In a nose lopped clean from the face Of a child morally superior To its conquering barbarian race. Slavery, and torture, and genocide! Raping, and pillage, and plunder! Blood was the coinage that Chris was about! And its cover-up could rip us asunder! Chris handed folks a *hawks bill*. He said, "fill this up with gold." "I=92ll fill my ships with all your stuff"! "With your flesh I=92ll pack my hold"! "And do just what I tell you"! "And jump so high, or fly"! "Do it if it kills you"! "Or I=92ll cut off your nose, even thumb out your eye"! Columbus was a monster! Don=92t just say it was the times! The watchers have recorded it! It=92s in Chris=92s hand, it=92s in his rhyme!=20 And don=92t believe it for a second That he died alone, and broke. He died a wealthy man, my friends. The whole myth=92s a sorry joke.=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com And what=92s to be gained? What can _ever_ come from a lie? The lie=20 will be found out eventually, and the sucker will burn with=20 resentment. It was, and I do! Cop to it, America! . . .much=20 better searching the skies for UFO=92s than speculating whether=20 Bill Clinton has a mark on his pee pee. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see=20 from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while=20 burning at the fundamentalist's stake for wanting to cop to his warts. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Tora! Tora! Tora! From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:52:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:11:09 -0400 Subject: Tora! Tora! Tora! Dear Colleagues, A thoroughly entertaining last few days of postings, but here is something which might just deflect interest away from all matters Roswell. A gentleman called in at our office the other day and happened to mention that he had seen a TV re-run of the old Hollywood movie entitled Tora! Tora! Tora! - which dealt with the sneak attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor. The man said that at the start of the movie, there is a scene where US intelligence officers are gathered in an office and on a notice board is chalked various code-names, signals traffic etc. The term "Majestic" and "12" was on the board, next to others. I believe the movie was made in the early 70s, but if anyone out there has a copy, it might be worth following up. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 London-Bound From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:03:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:11:36 -0400 Subject: London-Bound Dear Colleagues, Trust this information is of interest. The following speakers will appear in The Great Hall, Imperial College, London, on Saturday & Sunday, 21-22 June: Alan Alford (UK) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Tony Dodd (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) Nick Pope (UK) They will be joined by Larry Warren & Peter Robins (USA) George Knapp (USA) Stanton T. Friedman (Canada). Check-out GMTV early Monday morning (23 June) and don't forget the big TV live debate on Friday evening, 27 June. A full 90-minutes show featuring Timothy Good, Nick Pope, Stanton T. Friedman opposite the sceptics & debunkers. Lots of surprises in store, including a major personality (I know but can't say) flying in from the States. Busy, busy days... Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jun 97 11:52:05 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:08:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:53:29 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Steve, Thurmond's staff seems to want us to think that Thurmond is just some senile old coot without the sense to insist on seeing the book before writing a foreward. I don't buy it. In all of my experience in the publishing business, I've never known of a case in which someone wrote a forward to a book without reading the book, at least in rough form. There is no way Corso's book could exist in any form without the mention of UFOs. So if their claim is true, and Thurmond was conned into writing this by being shown a totally different book, I'd think Thurmond would be in the courts right now getting a "cease and desist" order to halt distribution of the book. The only thing that makes sense to me is that Thurmond's staff didn't realize he had done this, and when they saw it they flipped and told the old man that he was nuts to attach himself to this. So now the distancing. But, Thurmond really has nothing to lose. He already said this is his last term. So why not go out with a bang by contributing to the death of the coverup? This will be a VERY interesting story to follow. I plan to finish reading Corso's book tonight. I noticed that the appendix is a very long batch of documents relating to a late 50s proposal for a permanent manned base on the moon. The book is not particularly easy to use as reference material because it has no index. There is no excuse for that in these days of programs which automatically create an index. Guess the publisher was just too cheap. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Roswell, 'original' reports, and 'silky material' From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:50:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:49:15 -0400 Subject: Roswell, 'original' reports, and 'silky material' I would appreciate the Roswell experts on the list helping me to know what to make of the following (names removed to protect the possibly ignorant): ---------- Begin quote ---------- someone wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jun 1997... someone wrote > > "The Mogul balloons used at that time are believed to have carried a > > payload of about 25 pounds. It doesn't take a weather expert to realize > > that such mass and inertia are many orders of magnitude insufficient to > > have caused the observed gouge in the terrain." > I speculate that the crash at Roswell was neither an alien spacecraft or a > balloon. I think that it may have been some test aircraft, missile, or > rocket that impacted the area. original someone: Actually, the evidence is good that it was the Mogul balloon. The *original* reports of the crash site mentioned no gouge, a "mysterious silky fabric" (the balloon material), and various small bits of debris consistent with the construction of the Mogul balloons. There was not enough crashed material to make up a pilot, let alone an aircraft. ---------- end quote ---------- I don't recall ever having heard this version of the events, esp. the "silky fabric" and the so-called "original" reports. Would someone be willing to clarify this for me? Thanks in advance. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:18:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Regarding... >Date: 11 Jun 97 01:28:04 EDT >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Theresa wrote: >I don't think the content should have mattered one way or the other. >If Thurmond truly felt about Corso the way he wrote that he did, >wouldn't he have checked into Corso's UFO claims as soon as he heard >about them? Theresa, I understand what you mean. It's perhaps been assumed that Corso would be a significant, credible witness who had decided to reveal key evidence, that he was prepared to offer something substantive and documented. It's what the publishers would have us believe anyway. If that had proved true, testimony from an officer with a distinguished background in security and intelligence would have merited serious attention. But it seems it's not like that at all. Almost every myth and bogus claim associated with ufology is championed as genuine. Not only did Corso break open a crate of alien innards in a gel sauce, but MJ-12, alien genetic experiments on humans, a covert invasion, anti-alien defence systems and almost every other facet we're familiar with, why, all that's apparently for real too. All of it and more besides. Including, no surprise, the prerequisite "autopsy" video. ;) Is it any wonder Thurmond wouldn't deposit Corso's book in the nearest bucket. Especially if he had been hoodwinked into writing a complimentary foreword. Corso and his motives seem an enigma and we shall no doubt see what transpires when the book's contents are fully digested. I anticipate an adverse reaction, save from those to whom Corso will no doubt be something akin to the promised messiah. >I figure it can't be any worse than the last two books on the Roswell >incident that I read. Could be a tough call. ;) >It's also the 50th anniversary of the USAF this year. I've been >trying to find new books about that to read, but I guess no one is >writing those. Hell, no. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 11 Australian UFO Sightings From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:14:50 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:13:07 -0400 Subject: Australian UFO Sightings Some information re Australia and NEw Zealand Sightings. National 24hr UFO Hotline Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 Action UFO/UAS report April 1997. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EMAIL. rossdowe@netlink.net.au or rossdowe@hotmail.com Web page.... http://netlink.net.au/rossdowe/intex.htm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raw Data: Thursday 3rd April 1997 @ 10.22pm NSW. Umina Central Coast .Respondent reports sighting up 12 illuminated triangular or stealth type aircraft travelling overhead towards the Palm Beach area from Umina. Friday 4th April 1997 @ 11.00pm NSW. Surrey hilly Sydney Respondents report sighting flashing illuminative lights changing colours to the west and to the east. ( likely to be star light refraction). Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 12.10 am NT. Wanguri Darwin. Respondents report sighting a "large red fireball" travelling quickly overhead, the object was heading to the south towards the Alice and was about the same height as a light aircraft. The illumination or object was a deep red colour and it had a small fiery rime, there was no wind in the area and no sound was heard. The respondents report the object was larger than the full moon 12 o'clock high and move faster than an aircraft. Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 8.30 - 9.15 pm and 11.00pm NSW Sydney. Marrickville, St Andrews to Campbelltown also NOWRA AND MT OUSELY AREAS. Respondents report sighting groups of bright orange illuminative lights between 8.30 -9.15pm. From Sydney the illuminations were seen to the south east while from Campbelltown they were seen to the south east. The illuminations split in to twin pairs and speed off in opposing directions, east and west. While other illuminations headed of to the south east.Later in the night @ 11.00 reports from Campbelltown and nearby areas, respondents report sighting up to eight illuminations approaching from the south east and then the illuminations stopped still for a short time then moved off to the west....... NOTE: WE HAVE RECEIVED ADDITIONAL "UNUSUAL AERIAL SIGHTING "REPORTS FROM THE NOWRA AND MT OUSELY AREAS OF OBJECT/ ILLUMINATIONS TO THE WEST SOUTH WEST AND TO THE SOUTH EAST (NOWRA AREA) @ 9.55PM. Saturday 5th April 1997 @ 9.30pm Tasmania. Bicheno. (192klm north of Hobart).Respondents report sighting a large illumination to the north about 10 O'clock high.The said "object appeared like an aircraft with port an starboard lights, however the fuselage was like a "white fluoro tube" and it seemed to have an electrical field around it". When sighted through binoculars and a telescope the respondents said that they "could not focus on to the white illuminated area", however they could on the red and green lights. The object was observed to gain height and then to stop for about 5 minuets, it jerked around and then headed directly towards the respondents with a frightening speed. One middle aged man said that "I was so spooked by it, I thought it was coming to get us, I ran inside and hide in the cupboard". The other respondents watch the object change direction and head off to the west. Sunday 6th April 1997 Daylight @ 4.30pm NSW Sydney Liverpool. Respondents report sighting a "flying black rectangular object with a red/orange illumination underneath" travelling towards the Sydney city area. A Police Sgt estimated the object to be approx "6'x 4'x 4' in size, jet black with a bright light underneath and its speed was about 120 knots travelling to the east from the north west. It height appeared to be about 1500ft in altitude, no sound was heard and the weather was clear with no wind"DAYTIME UAS reports of this kind have been filed and sighted from Brisbane last year, Melbourne 14mths ago and in 1994 Western Australia, Tom Price involving Police together with most of the township, also Geraldton W.A. the following night. Sunday 6th April 1997 @ 7.45pm. NSW Katoomba. Respondent reports sighting a "fluoro green illumination" travelling towards Sydney.. Sunday 6th April 1997 @ 11.50 NSW Singleton Respondent reports sighting a illumination changing from red to blue to the north.(pos. star light refraction). Monday 7th April 1997 @1.30 am Queensland Burleigh Heads Respondents report sighting a illumination changing from red to blue to the south west moving south (pos. star light refraction). Monday 7th April 1997 @ 11.30pm Victoria Melbourne Hampton Park. Respondents report sighting a bright orange illumination travelling from west to east about 1000ft in alt. The bright orange illumination appeared to be south south west , over toward the Carrum Downs direction and sharply turned around and headed north north west. The illumination seemed to travel as fast as the Police helicopter. Tuesday 8th April 1997 @11.45pm Queensland Brisbane Mt Cooper. Respondents report sighting a bright red blue illumination to the west south west moving around. (pos. star light refraction). Tuesday 8th April 1997 @ 10.45pm local time Western Australia Fremantle. Respondents report sighting a fluoro green illumination descend about 1000ft and then to hover, after a monument or two, the object then rocketed off to the north, fasted than a jet fighter could travel . The illumination appeared like a line or green tube with bent ends that angled up about 40degs, something like at the wings end of a 747 jumbo jet. " \____/ ". The object illumination was first seen slowly floating down however surprised the respondents when it stopped and more so when it "rocketed off into a cloud". Wednesday 9th April 1997 @ 11.45 pm NSW Castle Hill. Respondents report sighting a Orange strobing light travelling towards Wollongong. Friday 11th April 1997 @ 11.30 pm Victoria Melbourne. Respondents report sighting a large mat black triangular shaped object slowly travelling overhead from west to east. The object was sighted blocking out the view of the stars as it passed over. Saturday 12th April 1997 @ 8.45 pm NSW Newcastle. Respondents report sighting a large orange illumination heading to the north east of the district. Saturday 12th April 1997 @ 9.10 pm NSW Campbelltown. Respondents report sighting 5 bright orange illuminations in a triangle formation heading to the south west. Saturday 12th April 1997 @ 9.25 pm NSW Penrith Respondents report sighting 2 large orange illuminations heading south. Saturday 12th April 1997 @ 2.00 am Queensland Oxley. Respondents report sighting a low flying fluoro white fluoro tube shaped object travelling overhead. The object seemed to travelling about 120 km/h in speed when it suddenly stopped in mid air for about 2-3 minutes then moved off. Total sighting time 15mins. Monday 14th April 1997 @ 6.15 pm Victoria Horsham. Respondents report sighting a very large ball illumination overhead heading toward South Australia. (?). Monday 14th April 1997 @ 6.00 pm Victoria Ouyen. Respondents report encountering a bright ball light hovering above them for about 15 minutes before taking off towards the west. Wednesday 16th April 1997 @ 5.40 pm Victoria Melbourne. Respondents report sighting a strange white streak of light south of the sun in the western sky. The streak of light seemed to be a wide as a thumb at arms length. (Note May). Saturday 19th April 1997 @ 10.30 pm Queensland Gold Coast. Respondents report sighting 12 moving orange lights heading to the east. The orange lights travelled straight and level spread over a distance of 3-4 football grounds. Sunday 20th April 1997 2 12.45 am Victoria Melbourne South Yarra. Respondents report sighting bright rod shaped yellow orange illumination with fire coloured beams emitting from it rear., travelling overhead about 5000ft. No sound to slow for meteor. Monday 21st April 1997 @ 10.00 pm South Australia Adelaide Roseworthy. Respondents report sighting a egg shaped black object with red glowing lights entering a cloud the turning around heading off to the east. Clear sky with some light white coverage. Tuesday 22 nd April 1997 @ 8.40 pm Queensland, Brisbane. Respondents report sighting a large blue green illumination shooting straight into the ground. North of Brisbane.The illumination appeared to be about 1/4 of the size of the moon. Tuesday 22 nd April 1997 @ 8.50 - 9.00 pm NSW Newcastle Wallsend and areas. Respondents report sighting a large Black delta or triangular shaped object travelling overhead followed by 3 yellow/orange ball lights about 2-3000 ft up, at about 80-100 kmh. Wednesday 23rd April 1997 @ 3.30 am Victoria Ferntree Gully Respondents reported sighting a moving "bright gold orange white egg shaped illumination below Mt Dandenong's skyline travelling to the North. The object seemed to be close. Friday 25th April 1997 @ 1.30 pm South Australia. Walkerville. Respondent reports sighting a cigar shaoped object about 10mtrs above area tree line and about was some 175mtrs away. The object was grey in colour there was no soundand was sighted for about 5 mins before it headed to the west. Monday 28th April 1997 @ 7.00 pm NSW Newcastle Pac.Hwy to Sydney. Respondents encountered a triangular reg illumination pass over the top of there motor vehicle on the Hwy to Sydney. The object slowly travelled over the 11 witness's about 40 mtrs up and once passed over shot off at a great speed. to the east. Tuesday 29th April 1997 @ 8.10 pm NSW Penrith Respondents report sighting bright orange lights heading south. Tuesday 29th April 1997 @ 9.15 pm Victoria Doncaster. Respondents report sighting a very bright gold yellow illumination over Doncaster shopping centre to the north west. It looked like something out of Startek. Tuesday 29th April 1997 @ 10.15 pm Victoria Port Melbourne. White light to south from north over bay 9.10 Centeral Coast orange light. Wednesday 30TH April 1997 @ 9.00 pm Victoria Horsham. Large - huge Vertical Cigar shape red orange in colour passing thru colour no sound no wind. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/INDEX.HTM The National UFO Hotline wish's to hear from eyewitness's of these and or any associated event, and can contact Ross Dowe on rossdowe@netlink.net.au. Regards Ross Dowe. IPP- National UFO Hotline
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 An Open Message to Ed Kormarek From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:29:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:29:26 -0400 Subject: An Open Message to Ed Kormarek Ed, The time has come for me to step in. Quite frankly, your abrasive, in-your-face style is starting to pall. And your habit of Cc:ing two other Lists with only _your_ posts intact is no longer acceptable. If you included the complete responses to your messages in both Skywatch and IUFO I wouldn't mind. But since you select only snippets from responses in your tirades, the complete gist of, say, Dennis Stacy's messages are not being read by subscribers to those other lists. So, let me lay down some ground rules here. a) Messages of yours that are Cc:ed to any other List or individual will not be posted here. If subscribers to either Skywatch or IUFO want to read your posts to this List they can either subscribe here or go to the UpDates Archive and read them and the _complete_ responses to them, there. b) Either tone down your confrontational style or loose posting privileges here. And I don't want to read any nonsense about UpDates being part of the cover-up or on MUFON's side. If this is the only way to get both sides of the arguments out there, then so be it. This List has managed thus far, to keep the noise-level down to a comfortable level. Please refrain from trying to jack it up on a daily basis. c) I don't recall you asking for permission to use posts from this List to feed your ORTK Bulletin, even as courtesy. Perhaps you should also check via e-mail and see if others here whose messages you use are okay about it too? Errol Bruce-Knapp, Moderator/Owner, UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:44:15 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:03:41 -0400 Subject: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 Hi All... As the 50th Anniversary of the beginning of the modern UFO era approaches, it's worth taking a peek at the 50th issue of _JUST CAUSE_, the journal of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS). Issue #50 contains a fine editorial from Barry Greenwood which looks back at the first fifty years of UFO research and concludes that we need to do better in the second fifty. Jerome Clark presents his views on Sagan's contributions to UFO research, and Greenwood replies. Both viewpoints are a good read, and whichever argument you ultimately find to be the more convincing, it's reassuring that UFOlogy still has good people like Clark and Greenwood associated with it. There's more on the Edwards AFB "Non-event of 2-1-67" - even Robert Low (yes, that Robert Low!) felt that the Air Force was giving him the runaround, and details of new UFO material unearthed in USAF microfilms by Jan Aldrich of PROJECT 1947. The 50th issue of _JUST CAUSE_ also includes Robert Todd's latest issue of the SPOT REPORT, detailing his investigations into the "faked" Schulgen memo. Four pages of comparisons between the real and "amended" versions, and news of the 1950s Battelle/Project Stork contract with the Air Force. Todd advises that copies of the genuine Schulgen memorandum can be obtained by writing to Barry Greenwood at the CAUS address. Please include US $2.00 to cover copying and postage. At US$15.00 for U.S and US$20.00 for foreign subscribers, _JUST CAUSE_ remains excellent value for anyone with a serious interest in UFO research. To subscribe, write to: CAUS Box 176 Stoneham, Ma. 02180 USA - John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: Wed, 11 June 1997 17:12 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:58:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:30:48 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Dennis Stacey 'Outing' Abductees Dear Dennis, (you wrote): >You're getting as difficult to respond to rationally as Mr. Komarek, >but let me try. I have not been trying to out you personally for >years. I've already posted a list of articles I published about your >case in the Journal over the last five years or so, 12 articles in >favor of, one against. No, Dennis. I'm not a difficult person to respond to when I'm treated fairly. However, I'm much more difficult than Ed Komarek, (whom I have a great deal of respect for) when I'm provoked. You have a bad habit of belittling people and then you'll moan and groan because the replies to your posts aren't polite. You have a right to your opinions, but if you're going to get arrogant, most rational people will not reply favorably (if they reply at all). Remember, we usually get, what we give. If you try to be nice and fair, you'd be amazed. As far as the articles you have written for the MUFON Journal, etc., regarding my case, I remember some nice ones in 1992. However, most of them after that weren't so nice. They were arrogant in an annoying fashion. Especially the one you wrote in 1994, after I had my *first* talk in Austin, Texas at the 25th Anniversary of MUFON. Your sentences were run-on sentences, which implied, how tired you were having to hear about the "Witnessed" case. It also suggested that everyone should follow your lead. You're a good writer Dennis, why the run-on sentences, huh? That's just one of many things you have done to try and 'out' me. >But had I been trying, you can bet your Yankees' cap that it >wouldn't have been unsuccessfully. I could have mentioned your >last name any time I wanted to in a number of media outlets >that I write regularly for, beginning with Foretean Times, and Omni >magazine. Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, you're flattering yourself. You should know better than that. The "Witnessed" case has held up under harsh scrutiny for several years. I wouldn't bet my Yankees' baseball cap on your 'outing' the "Witnessed" case successfully. Yes, you could've mentioned my real name in articles, etc., as the debunkers did. But it would've made you look very bad in the public eye. Is that the reason why you haven't made a habit of publishing my legal name? Or do you have better ethics than that? No, I'm not distorting the facts. I'm giving them to you as I know them. I pay very close attention because much of what is said regarding my case, doesn't just reflect on Budd and me, it reflects on abductees in general. I don't want *them* hurt on account of a hand-full of inconsiderate people. >Again, you're into mind-reading. I have disagreements with some >of Budd's interpretations of the abduction evidence, beginning with >his interpretation of the Roper Report findings. In the interval, I >can't think of anything he has offered to the Journal that I haven't >printed. No, I'm not a mind reader, Dennis. I'm an abductee from N.Y.C. who is a surviver. It isn't your difference in opinions that bothers us. It's the way you say and do it. No one is going to agree with each other, all of the time. However, it seems to me that, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. That's not very good sports- manship, or whatever one would call it. >Again, you misconstrue my statements, which were intended to >imply that more care could have been taken. In other words, >someone needs to ask why your name was entrusted to them in >the first place if absolute privacy was the first priority. There *are* >ways to keep state secrets, you know, just ask the Air Force. My name was entrusted to no one. That wasn't the situation at the time. Before the *Witnessed* case went public and before an abductee in our group, *went debunker* (because he wasn't getting enough of Budd's attention), everything was fine. But as soon as Budd brought my case public, this particular abductee became one of the three debunkers from South Jersey. He knew my legal name, as most of us were on a friendly and close basis. No one knew, including Budd and me, that my case would go public at the time. These days, are sorry days, if one can't know a friend's legal name. From there, my name was given to Jim Moseley. >Have I offended Eddie Bullard, for example? Did I offend David >Jacobs by asking him to review Budd's "Witnessed" in the Journal? >Do I offend John Carpenter by running his column in the Journal? >Did I offend Ray Fowler by asking him to write about the Allagash >case for the UFO book? Have I offended Walter Webb, Richard >Haines, Jacques Vallee, Jerry Clark? Maybe you should stop >confusing the whole of ufology with the NYC circle? Let's just put it this way. No one would want to write an article for the MUFON Journal if you did. There wouldn't be a MUFON Journal if you had offended everyone. No, I'm not confusing the whole of ufology with the NYC circle, you are. You have absolutely no idea how our circle in NYC functions. By the way, our group is one of the best in all of the United States and more. >In fact, this whole field needs to seriously psychoanalyze itself >to see whether its going to allow honest differences of opinion >and interpretation to exist, or whether it's simply going to lump >everyone into two opposing camps, as in you're either for me or >against me. The latter is certainly Komarek's approach, and >from where I sit, kit seems to be the one you're taking as well. If everyone behaves the way you do, when you have a difference of opinion, people *are* going to lump themselves into two oppos- ing camps. After all, you provoke them to. Dennis, kindness and tactfulness goes a long way. We all have our own approaches, including Ed Komarek, you, me and many others. However, it isn't the difference in opinions, it's the way you present them. If you're going to be tactless and unkind, people are going to react. You can catch more bees with honey, not vinegar. Or, you can catch more honey's without vinegar. <G> If I didn't accept your apology, I wouldn't be a lady. I am a lady. So, I forgive you. However, I cannot forgive you for everyone else. In fact, there were times that I have agreed with you. But not this time, Dennis. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:29:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:14:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Regarding... >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:53:29 -0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Steven wrote: >It would be interesting to see if the office can provide a copy of >the alleged outline. Steven, Yes, I wondered if anyone had asked his staff about this. >The release that this obviously came from was well prepared and >designed to deflect any criticism that Thurmond might receive from >those in the Military or his constitutents. Understandably. >Thurmond, obviously, got caught with his pants down. He's certainly been embarrassed, but it's not apparent he's guilty of a wilful indiscretion. >I'm sure that Thurmond is able to take care of himself, but that >wouldn't diminish the desire of the staff to maintain some measure >of control over the story. I should think it's no more than an unwelcome embarrassment and nuisance. As I mentioned to Theresa, it's not as if Corso has appeared on stage in the expected role and played the straight part many expected. I don't see much evidence that his claims are being accepted as a "breakthrough". Incidentally, the comment about "alien genetic experiments on humans" is a generalisation, the Lear/Cooper/Dulce mythology particularly in mind. It's appreciated that when people genuinely have an experience they would attribute to an "alien abduction", it can be traumatic. >It is possible that he might have declined the honor if he was aware >of the UFO connection, which is what his staff would have us believe, >but they have provided only annecdotal statements to that effect. It's not a question of what his staff would have us believe, the AP release also notes: "In the statement, Thurmond said there was "absolutely no mention, suggestion or indication" that the book dealt with UFOs and a government conspiracies to hide the existence of such space vehicles. "I did not, and would not, pen the foreword to a book about, or containing, a suggestion that the success of the United States in the Cold War is attributable to the technology found on a crashed UFO," he said. "I do not believe in UFOs, do not believe that the United States is in possession of such a vehicle and I do not believe that there has been any government cover-up of a UFO crash," the senator added". What should perhaps be of concern is making an adversary of Thurmond, and possibly many of his influential colleagues. I'm sure his outrage and embarrassment are shared. There are some credible cases where people with the political weight of Thurmond would be welcome allies in soliciting answers. Assuming he's not already part of the vast cover-up, of course. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 More Roswell Hi-Jinks - SUN #45 From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:38:55 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:02:55 -0400 Subject: More Roswell Hi-Jinks - SUN #45 >From _Skeptics' UFO Newsletter_ by Philip J. Klass. #45, May, 1997 404 "N" Street, SW, Washington DC 20024 (C) 1997 [SIX ISSUES $15 for US/CANADA, OVERSEAS AIR MAIL IS $20/YEAR] ============================================================== _New Witness Debunks Randle/Schmitt/Kaufmann "UFO Impact Site"_ The "crashed-saucer impact site" 35 miles north of Roswell, first revealed by _Kevin Randle_ and Don Schmitt_ in early 1994 in their second book, "The Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell," based primarily on claims made by their star witness -- _Frank. J. Kaufmann_ -- has been disavowed by _Jim McKnight_, whose family owned the land and lived nearby in mid-1947. The recent disclosure, in a sworn statement by McKnight, further erodes the credibility of Kaufmann's wild claims (SUN #27/May 1994). In the second R/S book (R/S#2), Kaufmann's wilder claims were attributed to _Steve MacKenzie_, pseudonym. (MacKenzie's true identity was revealed in _SUN_ #27.) In a sworn statement made on Feb. 3, 1997, McKnight notes that the "alleged impact site is located on a part of the ranch that belonged to my aunt and is a little over a mile west of my grandfather's original ranch house....I do not believe that a UFO or anything else crashed at the alleged crash site in 1947 for several reasons. _No one in my family had any knowledge of such crash or military retrieval. If a coyote crossed that ranch, my dad or uncle would likely see his tracks...I cannot believe that a convoy of Army trucks and cars could have come and gone without them noticing_. If they had seen it, they would have told us about it." (Emphasis added) McKnight was four years old at the time. If an Army convoy had been dispatched from Roswell, it would have headed north on highway #285, turned left (west) on what is now Bitterroot Road, and would have passed to within about 200 yards of the McKnight ranch house. This was the route taken by news media (and _SUN's_ editor) on March 25, 1994, when Randle/Schmitt "unveiled" the then-new impact site following a press conference for their new book. At that point, the media transferred to four-wheel-drive vehicles for a very rough, rocky drive to the impact site. _NO ROAD TO (ALLEGED) IMPACT SITE IN 1947_ McKnight's affidavit states that "during the 1950s I rode horseback all over both pastures around the alleged crash site on a number of different occasions." McKnight said he emphasized that he rode horseback "because there _were not any roads west from the ranch house [to the alleged impact site]. It was not until the early 1960s that my aunt hired a bulldozer to build a crossing on the Macho_ [a dry creek that becomes flooded after heavy rains]. (Emphasis added.) In a telephone interview with McKnight, he told _SUN_ that "to get to the alleged impact site a convoy would have to get across the Macho which was all but impossible in 1947." In McKnight's affidavit he said: "In addition to our own ranch, it was customary to exchange labor with our neighbors. We had many discussions and some included the military, their practice bombing ranges and crashed airplanes. We had a practice bombing range on the ranch about 10 miles west of the alleged crash site and one airplane crashed on the ranch. Never, never did the subject of such an event as the Roswell [crashed-saucer] incident come up for discussion. I know the people who settled in that harsh environment....No amount of military threats would have silenced them, especially when they talked among themselves. McKnight's affidavit concluded that while "the entire Roswell Incident has been of great interest to me and I hope to find the truth some day, I do not have an axe to grind nor a profit to be made from this incident. _TIT FOR TAT_ McKnight's affidavit, which was obtained by the Roswell International UFO Museum, might be viewed as the museum's response to Randle's charge that it used "financial inducements" to get _Jim Ragsdale_ to change his location of the (alleged) impact site from the Randle/Schmitt/Kaufmann location 35 miles north of Roswell to another location roughly 55 miles west of Roswell, as first reported in _SUN_ #31 (Jan 1995). Randle/Schmitt had expressed great confidence in the location of the Randle/Schmitt/Kaufmann (R/S/K) impact site because it seemingly was corroborated by Ragsdale. In an R/S article in the Jan./Feb. 1994 issue _International UFO Reporter_ published by the Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS), they wrote "Skeptics of UFO crash stories have clamored for one, firsthand witness to the crash of a nonterrestrial object, with bodies, who would sign an affidavit and whose story checks out. There is now such a witness in the person of Jim Ragsdale, who has lived in Roswell for many years and has been telling his crash story, completely at odds with the [original] press release and Brazel story, since soon after the event. Ragsdale has, indeed, signed an affidavit, and with his public accounting of what he witnessed, the case for Roswell becomes that much stronger." This affidavit, dated Jan. 27, 1993, had been prepared by Schmitt, based on a tape-recorded interview with Ragsdale. It had been executed by Max Littell, a notary public and Secretary Treasurer of the Roswell International UFO Museum who had accompanied Schmitt on the Ragsdale interview. R/S could never have imagined that little more than two years later -- on April 15, 1995 -- Ragsdale would sign another affidavit in which he made significant changes from his first affidavit, beyond changing the location of the impact site. For example, in the 1993 affidavit Ragsdale claimed that he and his girl-friend, who were camping out for the night, did not investigate the (alleged) crash of the bright object until the following morning. In the 1995 affidavit, Ragsdale claimed they had gone to investigate the crash in darkness and also returned the next morning. In the 1993 affidavit, Ragsdale said they saw "a number of smaller bodied beings _outside_ the craft." But in the 1995 affidavit, Ragsdale reported: "When we looked into the craft, we saw four bodies of a type we had never seen before." In the 1993 affidavit, Ragsdale said: "While observing the scene, I and my companion watched as a military convoy arrived and secured the scene. As a result of the convoy's appearance, we quickly fled the area." But in the 1995 affidavit, Ragsdale said: "...we heard what we believed was trucks and heavy equipment coming our way, so we left and were not there when whatever it was arrived." Highlights of Ragsdale's financial deal with the Roswell International UFO Museum were revealed in the July 1995 issue of _SUN_ (#34). Under the terms of the memorandum of agreement, written by Littell and dated Sept. 10, 1994, the Roswell museum gained exclusive rights to produce and sell a booklet and video on Ragsdale's tale as well as souvenirs such as T-shirts with 25% of the gross income going to Ragsdale and 75% to the museum. Under the agreement, "any designation of the impact site, and all material relating thereto will be designated as 'The Jim Ragsdale incident and site.'" _FRIEDMAN ENDORSES NEW RAGSDALE SITE WITHOUT ANY INVESTIGATION_ Stanton T. Friedman, who boasts of his scientific approach to investigating UFO claims, interviewed Ragsdale once on Sept. 3, 1994, and in July of 1995 watched a recent brief video-taped interview made shortly before Ragsdale's death. Based on this, Friedman offered the following assessment when interviewed for "The Jim Ragsdale Story" videotape sold by the museum: "Over the years I have developed a kind of approach to things. I learned the hard way that you need to verify. I was impressed with his story....I have no reason to doubt it and certainly there wasn't a profit motive here." Friedman's views may stem from his animosity toward Randle who has characterized the Friedman-endorsed MJ-12 papers as counterfeit. _BUT JOURNALIST BILL BARRETT INVESTIGATES AND FINDS SERIOUS FLAWS_ Albuquerque journalist _William P. Barrett_ spent some time researching the Roswell Incident for an article for the July 15, 1996, issue of _Forbes_ magazine (which was headlined: Unidentified Flying Dollars") and an article for the Albuquerque newspaper _Crosswinds_. Barrett decided to interview persons who had lived near the Ragsdale impact site. Following are representative comments as reported by Barrett in his August 1996 article in _Crosswinds_: * _Dorothy Epps_, whose family owned land only one-half mile from the Ragsdale site: "I'm quite sure we would have heard about it if it were true. It's all a hoax." * _Bill Edgar_, who worked as a farm hand near the Ragsdale site in 1947: 'It never happened. I never heard about saucers or soldiers moving around." * _Kenny Schear_, manager of the nearby Armstrong ranch who arrived in 1955: I've talked to all the oldtimers over the years. I think it's the biggest damned joke I've ever heard." Barrett learned that none of the above have been interviewed by museum officials. Barrett also interviewed Ragsdale's former wife. Vennie Scott, who divorced him after 40 years of marriage. Although they were married in 1953 -- only six years after the alleged incident -- she said that he had never told her about a crashed saucer, but she said she once heard her husband, while drunk, tell the tale to a friend. Ragsdale's daughter _Judy Lott_, who is featured in the video and booklet sold by the Roswell museum and whose children will benefit from the royalties, endorses her father's tale. ======================================================================= -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:15:48 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:38:10 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or >Foes? >Uh Ed, Could it be because Dean, despite being a charming and >charismatic >man, simply is not credible? I do think Bob Dean is a credible witness and his military credentials have held up under scrunity. Perhaps you could tell me why you consider him not to be credible. I understand that Thomas Deuley(NSA retired) is a nice man too and I have given my reasons why I think as I do about him. You say a witness that is not credible can do us a lot of damage. I think that one well positioned man with a little support can do immense damage to our cause. I really need to know where Deuleys loyalties lie and he is not talking. I sincerely hope that he is not plugging security leaks for the NSA and other intelligence agencies. I hope good honest men are not rotting in military jails for divulging classified UFO/ET related information to MUFON. >What are the penalties for perjury to Congress? These >witnesses need to be >squeaky clean. Stories aren't going to be enough. Someone >MUST know exactly >what the witnesses are going to testify to and who else they >might name in >their testimony and what those people would testify to if >called. All the >bases must be covered Ed. If every Tom, Dick and Harry on the >Internet can >pick these witnesses apart -- you can be sure that Congress >will too. The >witnesses must have documentation and or corroboration. One >discredited >witness will do in the entire thing. That's the way I see it. This is a very good point. The problem is that under such stringent criteria you can eliminate everybody on the planet. Some one somewhere can find mud on anybody anywhere if they dig enough. Maybe as I suggested to you in private email all parties, Greer, the Coalition, and the Deans can eventually get together and develop a list of the most credible witnesses. Perhaps that is too much to ask however as Greer and Dean's critics in the Coalition seem to find no military witnesses credible. The thrust of the Coalition seems to be, if I understood you rightly, to be that members of Congress should only be presented with the best written and photographic evidence accumulated, not human military witnesses. >And if the leader of this movement to bring about the >hearings is a guy who >claims to be in contact with ETs, well -- he better have >proof, cause he's >gonna be laughed all the way back to NC. Hearing beeping >sounds in the >distance, while it sounds interesting, becomes not so >interesting when the >beeping sound turns out to be an owl. Or maybe the guy who >wrote that article >was part of the UFO coverup as well. Who knows? That is such >an easy thing to >claim. Impossible to refute. I agree there could be a problem here. Thats why we need a broader approach if at all possible. I think Steven is a reasonable person and understands the need for a broader approach but when he is attacked and undermined its harder for him to work toward cooperation don't you think? >Oh and all that video evidence, that better be real evidence, >no airplanes, >no balloons, no models suspended from wires. Or else you have >problems. >This is big deal. Congress of the United States -- something >we have all been >waiting for. A chance to tell our side of the story and present >our evidence. >If our evidence looks anything like the Santilli film or >something that is >presented in UFO Universe Magazine, then we have problems >again. Let's not >screw it up. We might not get another chance. >Excuse me for wanting it done in a more professional manner. >I just want this >subject called ufology -- something I spend a great deal of >time defending >presented in a positive light. Yes this is a good point but no evidence is perfect and we will have other chances. We will win eventually. >And Ed, as for your stories about Karl, Kal, Dennis, Tom, >Hynek, and whoever >else you think is part of the UFO coverup, well, that is getting >old. Real >old. You are telling stories. A lot of the people you give a hard >time are >people I call my friends and I don't like seeing them being >crapped on. Give >us a break. Present some evidence or be quiet. Well lets see, Kal Korff seems to be already taking himself out of the running and the evidence accumulated on the lists serves have proven my accusations that he is a debunker are true. On top of that I think even Karl Pflock is going to to expose him, one reason being he reflects badly on the other more clever debunkers. All this if I understood Stacy correctly. Oh I love it when we have fighting in the opposition! I understand Karl is upset that Prometheus books have accepted Kal's book and not his. Also it seems that Kal has taken some of the attention away from Karl. I think these two individuals along with Stacy have crapped as you say on enough people themselves that they don't need you to defend them. As for Tom Deuley and Dr. Hynek they are and were nice men. Thats the ones I really worry about. Both have and had strong ties to both the UFO community and the intelligence community. Time has a way of bringing out the truth. >that the UFO community is served much better with MUFON, >FUFOR and CUFOS >having all joined to form the UFO Research Coalition. Who has >more >documentation on UFOs? Documentation -- not just stories? >What's the harm in having evidence? What's the rush? >Ed, let's get over all this. Let's put it behind us and move on. Testimony by military witnesses is much more than just stories as you say. I don't see where all the documentary evidence accumulated over the years is going to get to the bottom of the coverup. Its a safe tactic but its not going to get at the root of the problem the secret black budget UFO/ET programs that are undermining our society. The military witnesses can name names and projects and tell where to look for real evidence. If Congress is serious these witnesses will be the thread that when pulled unravel the coverup. I seriously doubt that generals and heads of intelligence agencies are going to lie when faced with contempt and perjury charges from Congress. Its risky but there is also the payoff to consider. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) ------------------------------------------------------ To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 GAO: NASA Space Station Late From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:20:36 -0400 Subject: GAO: NASA Space Station Late --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: GAO: NASA Space Station Late Date: 97-06-11 22:49:48 EDT From: AOL News WASHINGTON (AP) - Delays in construction of an international space station being built by Russia and the United States have resulted in $291 million in cost overruns, congressional auditors say. The cost to get construction back on schedule has escalated to $129 million - or nearly 50 percent over previous estimates, according to a report by the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative and auditing arm. Sen. Dale Bumpers, D-Ark., who requested the analysis, said the report confirms his belief that the station is ``hemorrhaging red ink.'' ``We don't need to search outer space for black holes,'' he said in a statement. ``We have one right here on Earth. It's called the International Space Station.'' Last month, NASA delayed the start of construction for the station because of Russian funding problems with the service module, a chamber containing life-support systems for anyone living on the station. Construction is now expected to begin June 1998. The GAO report suggested Congress step in and review the program - and determine whether it merits continued U.S. financial support - if cost overruns and Russia's financial problems continue or worsen. The report also singled out the station's prime contractor, Boeing, for steadily driving up costs since April 1996. ``The station prime contractor's cost and schedule performance, which showed signs of deterioration last year, has continued to decline virtually unabated,'' it said. NASA has said that despite the initial delays, it plans to finish building the station in mid-2002. AP-NY-06-11-97 2241EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 'Pentagon, Psyops and Holographic Technology From: yechiel A. Mann <Yam@NetVision.Net.Il> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 04:54:35 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:38:13 -0400 Subject: 'Pentagon, Psyops and Holographic Technology Dear UFO UpDates, i just got this from Norio Hayakawa. Thought you might be interested. To remind you all, Norio Hayakawa will be on our IRC channel (#ETS on DALnet) this Saturday. Details on the meeting, and a place to download an IRC program at our site (Http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/6682 and watch the caps in "Area51" and "Zone"). The site now also has some MJ-12 Documents. -yechiel. ---------------Original Message--------------- Hello, yechiel I thought you might enjoy reading this......partly from DEFENSE WEEK. Norio from NORIO HAYAKAWA, quoting from CONTACT: THE PHOENIX PROJECT - June 3, 1997: PENTAGON'S NEW INFORMATION WAR + PSYOPS' HOLOGRAPHIC TECHNOLOGY The March 31, 1997 DEFENSE WEEK ran a story, "Air Force Organizes For Offensive Info War". According to the article, the US Air Force has created the position of deputy director for information operations. An "Offensive Information Warfare" division will be created under the new deputy director. The division will be created under the new deputy director. The division will have the organizational code AF/XOIOW and will be headed by Lt. Col. Jimmy Miyamoto. Offensive information warfare, which implies attacks on both military and civilian targets, is among the least discussed aspect of the Air Force's moves to organize, train, and equip the service for information dominance, the article admits. The new information Operations office will coordinate with the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office and the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. New research efforts are underway to support this new program, including: Lethal HPM munitions. The USAF Office of Scientific Research is working on developing a small affordable laser and high-powered microwave for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs - such as the ones being tested most likely at locations such as at Groom Lake Complexes (AREA 51) in Nevada, General Aerodynamics facility at El Mirage Dry Lake area, north of McDonnel-Douglas radar cross-section site near Llano, California - Norio ) to perform a wide variety of missions, including enemy communications and computer systems. Software viruses to be placed or injected into enemy weapons and information links. These viruses would remain dormant until activated by satellite, aircraft radar, or jamming equipment, etc. When activated, the virus would render the equipment useless, or better yet, "there could be a very subtle change for a finite period of time". Holographic projection. The article describes a quasi-information warfare/psychological operations program that was first discussed in the Air Force after Desert Storm. Holographic projection involves projection of a three-dimensional holographic image in project decoys, or even an "angry god" (religious imagery) above the battlefield. The Pentagon had listed the holographic projections openly as part of its "non-lethal" weapons program. But since 1994, the program has disappeared from view, evidently now a "black" effort, says DEFENSE WEEK. In conclusion, the DEFENSE WEEK article states that the Army's JFK Special Warfare Center and School in late 1991 disclosed that it was looking to develop a PSYOPS Hologram System with a capability "to project persuasive messages and three-dimensional pictures of cloud, smoke, rain droplets, buildings......(even religious "images" or "figures")........The use of holograms as a persuasive message will have worldwide application". (end quoting). (This looks like it will be a concentrated unit of soldiers armed with the very latest high-tech weapons systems) from NORIO HAYAKAWA ----------End of Original Message---------- UFO/ET related IRC channel at #ETS on DALnet - details at the Webpage, at (watch the Caps!) Http://www.GeoCities.Com/Area51/Zone/6682 - VISIT OFTEN!! It's updated with all the channel news! Lately Updated with new Links!!! And MJ-12 Files!!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:29:03 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:13:46 -0400 Subject: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:00:25 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: Fwd: UFO UpDate: Re: Dennis Stacy 'outing' abductees We can take this private anytime you want, John, but as long as me and my views are misrepresented in public, I'll respond in public. I'll try to be as brief (and caring) as possible. John wrote: >Your appology (after the fact) and 50 cents (may) get her a bag of M&M's. >Once the damage is done what the hell is 'I'm sorry' good for! I would >accept your remorse as genuine if it had been done in ignorance or >inadvertently, but you did what you did in the full light of day (and >reason) and _intentionally_ I might add. That puts a whole different slant >on it. No one ever said that an apology would change anything after the event. However, apologies typically follow the "crime" by definition. Would you rather have no apology at all? Apparently so. I've told you, Linda and this list that my use her of her last name was inadvertent. You refuse to accept my version of events, attribute motives that weren't operative at the time, and insist on calling me a liar. Here are some facts you continue to overlook and ignore. In the same book, Patrick Huyghe also discusses the Linda case and uses the name Cortile. Now, if it had been my intention to cause Linda grief, I could have easily changed Cortile to you know what, as I edited Patrick's paper. In addition, I also wrote briefly about the case for a mass media American publication, *after* the English book was printed. I used the name Cortile. Again, had it been my intention to cause Linda grief, I would have used you know what in a far more wider and influential market. In fact, I would use it now. As I've referred to before, which you continue to ignore, if I wanted to out, demean, and cause Linda grief, I would do it. And when I did, you would know it. Instead, I've stated the circumstances as straightforwardly as I can and apologized for same. You insist on assigning me ulterior motives, that is, in reading my mind. I don't pretend to read yours, Budd's or Linda's. >Oh yeah, how so? Linda's real name is not as 'out there' as I'm sure your >guilty conscience would want it to be. When I have the time someday, I'll go back and compile a list of instances in which Linda's name was used prior to my usage of it. In the meantime, if you continue to insist that Linda's name isn't "out there," then I suggest, again, that you turn to page 240 of "Alien Agenda" by Jim Marrs, from Harper/Collins, a book that will reach a vastly greater local and worldwide audience than my poor little effort. And before you ask, no, he didn't get it from me. >Paul Vitello, a Pulitzer Prize winning news journalist, (currently a >feature writer with New York Newsday) is my wifes cousin and has been a >very close friend of mine for over thirty years. We talk! <G> Then what you should ask him about are issues concerning when a person moves from the private sector to the public one. How many times, for example, does a person's name have to be mentioned in print, in context, and where, before it's considered common knowledge? I'd be interested to hear what he has to say, especially after the appearance of the Marrs book. >"In no uncertain terms?" That's another cowpie you're selling Stacy! What >the third man _did say_ was, "_I cannot but deny_ that I have been involved >in any abduction,..." The Third Man has denied more than once that he was abducted. I'm sure someone will ask him the same question again -- and that he'll deny it again. You may choose whichever denial you deem less of a denial. I accept that if de Cuellar was abducted, he might have personal reasons for denying it. Since I wasn't there at the time, all I *know* for sure is what I read in the papers. >>Give me a break. The gaping black hole here is not where my heart is >>supposed to be, but in the space between your ears. And note that I >>didn't call you a sorry excuse for a human being. >No, you didn't call me a sorry excuse for a human being because it would >not apply in my case. What you (do) call me is 'stupid'! I leave it to you >to post some convincing evidence for 'that' little theory of yours. I may >be many things Stacy, but 'stupid' has never beem among them. You had just called me heartless, I thought I would respond using your own turn of phrase. My intention was not to imply that you were born stupid, are presently stupid and always will be stupid (you do a helluva lot better Web page, than I do, for example), but to suggest that you are speaking some things through the emotions without first thinking them through. Such as your constant, relentless assaults on my character. >Let's get down to brass tacks Dennis. Linda brought this up already so >according to your own standards it's O-K for me to repeat it! <G> >About (your) objectivity; >You have had a serious 'hard on' for Budd Hopkins for quite some time. >Ergo, anyone connected with him gets colored with the same brush. Not true, and not true. As I've said before, I even requested permission to reprint an article from the Village Voice by Budd, which presumably would have put money in Budd's pocket, a most decidedly peculiar way to behave on my part if I indeed had a 'hard on,' in your words, for him. I requested permission from Budd and both wrote and called the Village Voice rights department. The latter dragged their heels until it was too late. When Budd called me to say they had finally given their approval, the book was already on its way to the English printer. I tried to get it in, and that's the truth, which I can document if you wish, since you don't believe anything I say. There is still the possibility of an American edition. Should that come about, I will do my best to try to get Budd's article into it (as I think it would be a better book for it), and also to change Linda's name. As I've also mentioned before, and which you persist in ignoring-- apparently because it suits your thesis -- I cannot think of a single item which Budd has submitted to the MUFON UFO Journal for publication that I haven't published. Again, odd behavior for someone with a vindictive, venomous 'hard on.' But you know best, as always. As for the "same brush" stuff, I also solicited an article from Greg Sandow for the book. Alas, it didn't make it into the final English version, either, but for entirely different reasons, which had nothing to do with either subject matter or treatment. (Greg is maybe even a better writer than I am.) When we looked at all the material that finally arrived, however, we went for the "I-was-there" approach, as opposed to general, discursive (meant in the best sense of the word) essays like Greg's. As the editor who solicited the article, I apologized profusely for the fact that it wasn't included. The paranoid will of course see it differently. I have hopes of publishing Greg's article in a future issue of the Journal. It may be that I will eventually be able to publish all of the "discarded" material in the Journal. I should also point out that the context in which I mentioned Linda's name was that of "Eight Days That Shaped Ufology"; in other words, I considered it one of the most eight influential cases of the last 50 years. I had intended covering ten cases, until we ran out of space. >It's true that we often say to others the things we need to hear most >ourselves. You accuse Budd of not being 'objective' and you are guilty of >it yourself! Again, by your own standards, you have no business in ufology >either! You have a "preconcieved notion" about abductions and abductees. >Holding preconcieved notions is the same thing that you accuse Budd of! I suspect that Budd is not objective about a lifetime of emotional and intellectual effort and investment in the same way that I am not objective about my son -- because it's humanly impossible. Any other conclusions are yours alone. Scientists have pet theories, their particular "babies," too. They also have a public process whereby that "objectivity" is eventually quantified and qualified. For but one example: I am not alone, not even remotely alone, in suggesting that different conclusions can be drawn from the Roper Report. And how do you know my notions about abductees and abductions are preconceived, when I doubt if you know all my notions about *anything,* even now? If I have any definite, fixed notions, they have evolved to where they are today after two decades in the field, not from having fallen from a turnip truck yesterday. So get off your hysterical high-horse. Over 120,000 words were processed for the book I co-edited (another 40,000 or so were processed but not used), exactly one word of which you've gone bananas and ballistic about. If you really want to know what my notions are--although there's no evidence that you do--read the book. If you can find a copy of it, which I seriously doubt. (At the risk of dragging Jerry Clark through an unnecessary mud fling, here's what he said of the book: "Just a word to congratulate the two of you on a job well done. "UFO 1947-1997 is a splendid piece of work: balanced, stimulating, informative. This is the most interesting and intellectually nourishing UFO book I've come upon in quite a while. You've made a real contribution." No, it wasn't a solicited blurb. And no, it doesn't make me a better person.) In the end, they are just that, my notions. If I knew "what it's all about," I would tell you, but I don't. I don't claim to be perfect, but I try to look at abductions on a case-by-case basis, just as I look at UFO reports and books on the subject in the same way. You've had a personal experience that I probably never will. What happened to you? *I don't know.* To the best of my knowledge, however, I have never accused you of making it up or lying about it. That said, your personal experience does not necessarily validate every abduction account ever reported, any more than a genuine crop circle would validate known man-made ones. Nor does your experience in, of, and by itself *prove,* say, that the Secretary General of the United Nations was abducted by physical beings from another planet. I flew to Scotland this spring. If you said you did, too, my ticket stub would not be proof of your flight. A court of law (or science) would still want to see your ticket stub at the very least. I'm trying to apply that same principle to abduction accounts, and you demonize me for it (see below) by claiming that I'm ranting and transgressing against *everyone, all the time.* In effect, what you're saying is that I (and by extension, anyone else) have no right to question anyone about anything. If Gallup (or God) turns up on my front doorstep tomorrow and asks "Do you believe the Secretary of the UN was abducted by aliens?" presumably I'm supposed to say yes. "And why do you believe that?" "Because Budd and Linda told me so in a book." Next question: "And did anyone ask the Secretary himself? And if so, what did he say?" Now, what am I supposed to answer, John? That he implied no, but that we all know he's lying, shirking his responsibility to makind and the planet as a whole in the bargain because he doesn't want to be personally inconvenienced? Whether you're aware of it or not, you're making a very damaging assessment of de Cuellar's character here. Ask your wife's cousin next time you talk. And buy him a copy of the book. If you can find one. <G> >If he has no business writing books or being involved in UFOlogy because of >those reasons then neither do you! Headline: Pot calls Kettle Black! I have never said that Budd has no business writing books or being involved in ufology. On the other hand, I've never said that one should be forced to agree absolutely -- or be cast into the pit -- with everything in those books, either. >I don't agree with a lot of things connected to Budds work, but they are >mostly proceedural differences. Your case against Budd (and us I might add) >is purely vindictive in nature and yet you attempt to disguise your venom >(thinly I might add) with mere words. I politely disagree with your characterization. Be careful, or some snake might sue you for slander! <G> >Doesn't work Dennis, the pettyness comes through loud and clear _everytime_ >you speak to one of us. You don't seem to have the necessary emotional >control over yourself to hide it effectively. You don't seem to grok the >fact that your transgressions and rants against us make (you) look bad, >not us! <G> You're the one that's supposed to be "objective" and >"openminded," man, have you missed the mark! Most of my so-called "transgressions and rants" are merely replies to attacks on my own character, such as repeatedly being called a liar, heartless and less than human, although the list hardly stops there. >I _can_ vouch for the fact that regardless of whatever else he may be, Budd >Hopkins is an honest, decent, careing, and honorable man. Can't say the >same for you Sasquatch, sorry. Demonize away, John, if it makes you feel better. Now I'm dishonest, indecent, uncaring and dishonorable. But, wait, we're not through! There's yet more, including: >1. Insulting >2. Vindictive >3. Closeminded >4. Prejudiced >If you really want me to go on we can continue this pointless discussion >privately. Thanks. I offered you one peace pipe and you didn't want to inhale. >I hope not, I haven't got much belly left for your particular >brand of pure BS. >John Velez :) Poor, but honest. Nor I for yours. Dennis the Menace The Most Despicable Person in all of Ufodom PS: Phil Klass, you pimply-faced piker, eat your heart out! John Velez has finally identified Enemy Numero Uno--and you ain't it. You may not even be in the top ten if you don't step it up a notch or two and soon. PPS: As it turned out, I lied about the "brief" part. Whoops!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Intel's new microprocesso From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:32:57 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:17:15 -0400 Subject: Intel's new microprocesso Hi List, For those who were wondering whether there was truth in the report about the Intel microprocessor with acquired alien technology: I got a mail from Jim Brooks, writer of the report, who said it was bogus. The report was inspired by current allegations by Digital about alleged use of its patents by Intel and by the Vorlons of Babylons 5. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:23:41 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:41:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: 11 Jun 97 11:52:05 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Bob wrote: >Thurmond's staff seems to want us to think that Thurmond is just some >senile old coot without the sense to insist on seeing the book before >writing a foreward. I don't buy it. In all of my experience in the >publishing business, I've never known of a case in which someone wrote >a forward to a book without reading the book, at least in rough form. Gentlemen and ladies, I am usually content to lurk here, but perhaps I can add something at this point. First, a prominent filmmaker once wrote an intro for a book of mine without so much as a glance at the text, and my publishers indicated to me at the time that this was *quite* a common practice. Second, I have spent some years working in politics and government (state-level, admittedly), and I have found that most pols read and write little to none of what goes out under their signatures--they have flunkies who do that for them. And, finally, Thurmond was a low-grade racist boob when he *was* in full possession of his faculties, so I wouldn't impute too many scruples to the current remnant. Bruce W. Befuddled fortean ____________________________________________________________________________ "We had a pet turtle which died.... After it died, we heard, in our minds, a voice which we believe to be that of the turtle, and it has told us many things, among them the alphabet of the language of Lemuria of Mr. Shaver." -- Letter column, Amazing Stories, June 1945
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:15:28 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:39:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' Hi Drew: Regarding: > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:27:29 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) > Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > Regarding the Fugo balloon controversy that has been on this list for > the past week or so, I would like to make some observations and > queries. > Firstly, as I understand it, the Air Force has not come out officially > with this explanation. This is only a rumour that such an explanation > is about to be released. If this is absolutely confirmed, then please > let me know, and where the source emanates for the confirmation. This is a good question; Just where is this story coming from? > Perhaps it would be to all our benefit to wait and see if this turns > out to be true...the explanation, as given by the U.S. Air Force, > I mean. > This almost has the appearance of a sociological experiment to > test the gullibility of "ufologists," if not an out and out hoax. Or someone having a joke that got out of hand? > Why would the U.S. need to utilize wartime Japanese balloons to > hoist a test vehicle, let alone nab a couple of four-fingered, > glaucomic Japanese pilots to fly the craft? Don't forget, this was a post-war economy and the U.S. military budget was tight. They could get Fugo balloons for half the price of the lcoally-made polyethylene ones and, naturally, four-fingered pilots come cheaper than five-fingered ones. > Was the use of Japanese pilots intended to give the project that > well coordinated designer look by matching the pilots to the country > of origin of the balloons? Definitely. Also, harking back to the tight military budget: The aim of this whole Fugo/Horten/Airborne Ninja exercise was for photographic reconnaissance, but after spending all that money on special food for the crew - nobody factored in the high-price of dried fish and sushi - the photographic budget was a bust. By using Japanese pilots - who were brought into the U.S. on tourist visas - they could guarantee the pilots would return from their flight with lots and lots of pictures. > Perhaps the little `nippers' were needed to fit into the > sub-standard-sized craft so as not to bang their knees up against > the dash, or bruise their heads on the canopy. The "heel-shaped" glider attached to the Fugo balloon had very little wing area. This gave it a very poor gliding capability. The solution was for the glider to detach itself from the balloon after the spy flight and land on the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow. There the craft would be dismantled and it and the diminutive crew members smuggled back into the U.S. in diplomatic pouches. > Lets wait for the train to pull into the station before we start > to board it. I guess so, but it was obviously such a well-thought out plan. I'm told that the person who dreamed this operation up later went on to design The Edsel. I'm sure this Fugo/Horten "Axis" combo would have been just as successful. > TTFN > D. Williamson Best, John P.S. :-) -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Earth Has a Companion: Asteroid 3753 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:32:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:32:03 -0400 Subject: Earth Has a Companion: Asteroid 3753 Both the CBC News and @discovery.ca did pieces on Thursday night on the following: [Thanks to Drew Williamson] From: http://www.exn.net/@discovery.ca/ Wednesday June 11, 1997 - Ep.#546 7pm, 11pm ET/8pm PT Earth Has a Companion: Asteroid 3753 Astronomers at York University have discovered a mysterious "companion" to Earth. They call it Asteroid 3753 (1986TO). Researchers found that an asteroid accompanying Earth in its orbit is the only natural companion to Earth other than the moon. "We were astonished when we realized what we were seeing," said astronomy professor Dr. Kim Innanen, part of the team at York that made the discovery. Innanen adds, "This asteroid's orbit is so unlikely and so spectacular it's like a beautiful piece of choreography. It has a very unusual relationship to our planet and to the sun, and we are baffled as to how it got into this orbit." Dr. Paul Wiegert, York postdoctoral researcher and Dr. Seppo Mikkola of Turku University in Finland were also part of the orbit discovery trio. Although the asteroid itself came to light 11 years ago, no one had tracked its path in enough detail to detect its rare orbit. Asteroid 3753's path is so unusual and complex that the word "companion" was coined by the astronomers to describe the relationship of the asteroid to earth. Dr. Innanen uses the word "fickle" to characterize 3753, as it is both attracted to and repelled by Earth. The asteroid continuously follows an orbit in which it moves closer to, and then travels away from Earth. Asteroid 3753's orbit is influenced not only by Earth, but also by the sun - gravitational forces from both affect its path. The asteroid follows a horseshoe orbit and possesses traits never seen or even anticipated. No other near-earth asteroid moves in a horseshoe orbit. Tonight, @discovery.ca features an interview with Dr. Kim Innanen about this astonishing discovery, and how it will affect asteroid exploration in the future. Courtesy of York University: Backgrounder An asteroid is a rock-like object with an irregular shape. It floats in the solar system, and is small in relation to the planets, measuring anywhere from a few metres to several hundred kilometres across. Most asteroids are found in a region between Mars and Jupiter called the Asteroid Belt, but a small number are found in the inner solar system (near the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars) and are called planet-crossing asteroids - (like Asteroid 3753). They travel from a place closer to the sun to a place farther away from the sun, while bracketing the planet. An orbit is the path through space followed by one object as it moves around another. For instance, the moon has an almost circular orbit around the earth. Most asteroids travel in elliptical orbits. A satellite is an object that moves in an orbit around a planet, with the planet being the satellite's primary gravitational influence. Satellites are often referred to as moons. The earth has only one natural satellite: the moon. A "companion" is a term coined by Wiegert, Innanen, and Mikkola to describe Asteroid 3757's relationship to Earth. Unlike a satellite, which is primarily influenced by the gravity of a planet, Asteroid 3753 is also influenced by the gravity of the sun, and perhaps by some other planets in our solar system. Asteroid 3753 is the only known natural companion of earth (other than the moon). This asteroid can be described as a "fickle" companion of earth, for it is continuously following an orbit in which it moves closer to, then travels far away from, the earth. As is follows its path, Asteroid 3753 is both attracted to and repelled by Earth. A horseshoe orbit is one in which the object moves along a path away from earth and eventually turns around and goes the other way, travelling the other direction so that it comes closer to earth. Asteroid 3753 is the only near-earth asteroid known to follow a horseshoe orbit. There is only one other known horseshoe orbit anywhere. Saturn's moon, Janus, is accompanied by a smaller moon called Epimetheus, which follows a horseshoe orbit. However, Epimetheus lacks the unusual and sophisticated pattern of Asteroid 3753. Asteroid 3753 is following the most complicated horseshoe orbit ever seen, and it is unique in our solar system. It has unique characteristics, including: a spiraling motion; a high inclination (meaning its path is tilted); and an overlap at the end of the horseshoe. Collisions between asteroids and planets happen in a small minority of instances. Usually a close encounter between an asteroid and a planet causes a large change in the asteroid's orbit.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt. 3 From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:37:56 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:01:55 -0400 Subject: Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt. 3 Part Three Of What _Really_ (perhaps, maybe) Happened At Roswell. >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:14:56 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Roswell: Historical Facts (Part 2) >>From: legion@werple.net.au [John Stepkowski] >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell: Historical Facts >>To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >>Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:30:53 +1000 (EST) [...] >Why would they do that to an unreliable screwup? Did Marcel make a mistake? Yes. Should he have known what the material was? Not necessarily. Should Ramey have snapped Marcel's briefing pointer over his knee and ripped off his epaulettes? Not at all. >Blanchard had friends in high places and was one of the Air >Force's fast rising stars. If he had fouled up, they may have >chosen to overlook it. "Fouled up," sure. But if he'd gone against orders or defied specific directives he would've ended up in Alaska as a Lieutenant in charge of the Polar Bear patrol, friends in "high" places or not. [...] >Or maybe he was part of a cleverly coordinated debunking >campaign from higher up, in which case he was just carrying out orders. >Therefore, there would not have been any repercussions. I've lost count, but I think we're up to about Explanation #5 or #6 for how this might have gone down. I'm glad we _really_ know what happened at Roswell otherwise we'd be up to our armpits in explanations. I guess five or six different versions is more than manageable. >He might even be singled out as being extremely loyal and reliable >(Blanchard did that in following evaluations). On the other hand, >there would have been VERY serious consequences for an underling >like him if he had badly screwed up or been insubordinate. There's no indication he "badly" screwed up. There were other instances in which officers of even greater rank than Marcel reacted with extreme caution and puzzlement when faced with a "flying disk." More about this in another message. >>Whatever happened, a release seems to have been officially >>sanctioned. >Perhaps, perhaps not. We may never know for sure. May I quote you on that? ;-) >The mystery remains over who wrote the release and why >they used the words they did. Concluding that a trunk full of >bits and pieces were part of a "flying disk" sounds like someone >desperately wanted that material to be from a "flying disk." >>No it sounds like intelligent, well-trained people drawing logical >>inferences from anomalous debris, perhaps one large chunk, a >>reported explosion, an elongated crash field suggesting high >>speed, Or a slow speed landing/descent of an object that was broken up and scattered by the wind. There'd be no way to tell the difference, especially without any ground markings, and Major Marcel said there were no fresh depressions or gouges. >and a flood of reports of high-speed, unknown objects. Not all reports were of high speed objects. There were many reports of craft moving at moderate speed while exhibiting a variety of fluttering and oscillating motions. [...] >>Here's a brief excerpt from Loren Gross's excellent _UFOs: >>A History Volume 1: 1947_ detailing just how quickly the press >>release was "deflated": >> [...] >> Bedlam. >> Washington was caught flat-footed. So many reporters jammed >> the Pentagon press room one would think money was being given >> away. Lt. General Hoyt Vandenberg, Vice Chief of Staff, Army Air >> Corps, dashed to the press room to take charge personally and >> bring some order out of the chaos. >You realize, of course, that in the present day, the Air Force >debunker boys are denying that Vandenberg was involved in any way, >and accused the newspapers of making this all up. According to the USAF Mogul report: Similarly, it has also been alleged that General Hoyt Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of Staff at the time, had been involved directing activity regarding events at Roswell. Activity reports (Atch 15), located in General Vandenberg's personal papers stored in the Library of Congress, did indicate that on July 7, he was busy with a "flying disc" incident; however this particular incident involved Ellington Field, Texas and the Spokane (Washington) Depot. After much discussion and information gathering on this incident, it was learned to be a hoax. There is no similar mention of his personal interest or involvement in Roswell events except in the newspapers. Is this "debunking" or simply pointing out that Gen. Vandenberg wasn't involved "directing activity regarding events at Roswell"? Presumably that meant he wasn't over at Wright-Patterson kicking the tyres of the newly retrieved spaceship, or ordering that new stationery with the 'MJ-12' letterhead. >(This would include newspapers such as the New York Times, >Washington Post, and San Francisco Examiner, who were among those >that reported Vandenberg's involvement. The level of his involvement was poking his head into the press room and asking what the fuss was about. Then he made a quick call to Ramey to find out what the heck was going on. The larger Roswell story claims he was part of the actual cover-up. It's pretty obvious, to me at least, that this is what the Mogul report was saying: no major pow-wows with Larry, Curly and Moe over in the D-Team office. >A preplanned meeting with Air Marshall Goddard at 3:00 P.M. >EDT on "4 subjects," however, does not appear to have been kept. >This left a short gap between 3:10 and 3:25 PM, enough time for >Vandenberg to have ducked into the Pentagon press room and put in >an appearance. Not unless the members of the Washington Fourth Estate were psychic. 3:25 PM Washington time was only 1:25 PM in Roswell. The press release wouldn't reach the newswire for another 61 minutes. >This just happens to be "within an hour" of the original press >release going on the wire, as reported in the New York Times. It's an hour _before_ the press release went out on the newswire. [...] >> After Vandenberg hung up, General Ramey made himself >> available to the press. The San Francisco _Examiner_, a Hearst >> paper, was the first to get through to the General. The >> _Examiner_ found General Ramey in a seemingly jocular mood whose >> first words when picking up the receiver were: "Everybody in the >> country is trying to get through on this telephone." >I wonder where Gross got this? It wasn't in the Examiner article. >Does anybody know? Gross cites the Examiner as the source: "Flying Disc Found By Air Corps Only A Weather Balloon," By Dick Pearce, San Franciso _Examiner_, 9 July 47, p. 1. >Also it's not at all clear that the Examiner called Ramey before >or after Vandenberg. Nothing much is clear about Roswell. We're forever stroking our chins and trying to work out what happened and when. >The Examiner story suggests they called approximately an hour >(or about 3:20 Washington time) after the press release and were >the first to get through to Ramey. An hour after the press release hit the newswire would have been approximately 5:26 PM Washington time. (4:26 PM Ft. Worth, 3:26 PM Roswell). Any idea what Gen. Vandenberg's last appointment was on the 8th? [...] >Incidentally, the Examiner story blamed the press release on Haut, >not Marcel or Blanchard. The low man on the totem pole always gets it, doesn't he? Fortunately not all newspapers singled Haut out. (Some didn't even spell his name correctly!) >If anybody should have been bitter, it would have been Haut, not >Marcel. But Haut wasn't the one who ended up chasing Newton around the room trying to convince him that the by-now (allegedly) switched balloon debris was from a "flying disk." Marcel would've had ample reason to harbour a grudge for many years if he believed he'd been cheated of his rightful place in history as the man who'd found a "flying disk" - whatever a "flying disk" happened to be back in '47. [...] >> Base forecaster, that the thing as only a beat up weather >> balloon radar reflector. The Fort Worth commander expressed >> his consolations that he had to disappoint the news media by >> stripping the saucer find of its glamor. >> The tumult had lasted an hour. >Whoah! Let's back up here a moment! You have my undivided attention... >According to the Washington Post, when Vandenberg called, Ramey >said the object was "of very flimsy constuction -- almost like a >box-kite," made of wood and with a cover "like tinfoil." He then >added that hadn't actually seen it yet. [!!] Maybe his adjutant told him what it looked like while Ramey was slipping into an outfit that was a little more "General-looking"? >Then "he went to take a look, and called back that it was about 25 >feet in diameter. [!!] He said he was shipping it on to Wright >Field, Ohio, but would have one of the meteorological officers look >at it first." You don't suppose he suspected it might have been a *gasp* balloon of some sort, do you? >Several points here. First and foremost, Ramey couldn't have >seen it yet because Jesse Marcel's plane had just taken off from >Roswell and hadn't arrived. There was nothing to see. What time did Major Marcel depart Roswell? The various versions of The Roswell Story offer different times: "around noon," mid-afternoon, 3:00 PM. In a B-29 it would have been a fairly quick trip, 70-80 minutes, tops. The press release stated that the "disk" had already been sent to "higher headquarters" when it was issued. Major Marcel and the debris might have left around the same time that Haut took the release into town, or even sooner. >Second, note that Ramey described it as being "25 feet in >diameter." [..see next message..] >Third, note that Ramey indicated that he had yet to have a >meteorological officer look at it. Ramey certainly DID NOT have >the word of Irving Newton at this point. But he was already expressing his doubts about the flimsy construction and doubted that "the object could have been piloted." >This is also clearly indicated in the Examiner story, which says >he wasn't called in until later. Newton didn't enter the picture for >perhaps another 2-3 hours. Gross' chronology is way out of whack. J. Bond Johnson arrived at approx 4:30 PM Ft. Worth time, 3:30 PM in Roswell, just over an hour after the story had broken on the wire. >Fourth, it wasn't all over after only an hour. Ramey was >definitely putting out a weather balloon story within an hour to >get the press off their backs, as Dubose and Marcel said, but the >infamous Fort Worth photos of the radar reflector weren't taken >for another 2 hours or so. Release issued at 2:26 PM Roswell time, 3:26 PM Ft. Worth. 64 minutes later J. Bond Johnson is taking pictures of the balloon inside Gen. Ramey's office. >Marcel hadn't gotten there yet for one thing, He arrived with the debris so he must have. >and the photographer remembers this happening at around >4:30 p.m. Fort Worth time or 5:30 Washington time. Yep. >Newton was probably called in after that at some sort of press >conference, and Ramey went on the air at some time after 6:00. >It was also after 6:00 that the first wire stories appeared >announcing that the "disc" was nothing but a meteorological device, >and it was also at this time that the FBI Dallas office sent their >telegram saying that Ramey's intelligence officer told them it was >nothing but a balloon and radar reflector. Not quite. Major Kirton described the "disk" as being hexagonal and attached to a balloon, but he said there was some doubt as to whether it was a _weather_ balloon after discussion with AMC. Presumably this is why Colonel Duffy was roused from his early beddy-byes soon after. >So what was Ramey up to between the Vandenberg/Examiner calls and >the photos about 2 hours later? Could it be that he and his staff >were finding their weather balloon shill? We need to pin down the correct time that Vandenberg spoke to Ramey. It couldn't have been at 3:20 PM Washington time because the story didn't arrive on the wire in Washington until 4:26 PM. With no wire story there wouldn't have been any hordes of curious press people in the media room to attract Vandenberg's attention. >> After the capture story had swelled and then burst like a >> bubble, military officers at Roswell Field received, according >> to sources known to United Press, a "blistering rebuke" from Air >> Corps Headquarters in Washington for their part in the panic. >Well, that's what the press was told, but Walter Haut certainly >doesn't remember getting any such calls. Has anyone asked him lately? ;-) >And there certainly isn't anything in Marcel's record about >being rebuked or reprimanded. And neither Marcel's or Blanchard's >careers were hurt in the least. No harm done, either to them or Mogul. >>Consider the aftermath of the "panic". The day after the >>excitement had subsided, there was Gen. Ramey in his office, >>looking through the newspapers in which his picture featured so >>prominently. Nice pictures. No doubt Mom would've been proud. >One of the recent interesting comments about this by the >photographer, C. Bond Johnson, is that he's always wondered why >Ramey was all decked out in his dress uniform, as if it were an >historic occasion, while others like Marcel and Dubose were in >their ordinary work uniforms. Come on David, this guy was a General! Pictures in the paper are important for Generals. If it'd been you or me we would've gladly had our pictures taken in our jeans and MegaDeath T-shirts. But these Generals, they like to look _good_ for the media. >Johnson also wondered why Ramey would be stinking up his office >with a rotting weather balloon, when crash debris was normally >displayed for the press out in one of the hangars. Beats me. Perhaps the office was more "photogenic"? >Does "photo-op" ring a bell? General Ramey did dress for the occasion. :-) [.. more for another message ..] >>And Major Marcel seemed to agree with that. No stories from him >>of large numbers of C-54s descending on the base with all manner of >>experts, >Not surprising, since for most of the time, he wasn't even at the >base. First he was out at the debris field from the evening of >July 6 to the night of July 7. What was he doing all day July 5? That's when the "bodies" were supposedly brought back to the base hospital. Didn't anyone think that was important enough to call him? It might have been a Saturday but he was on the base having lunch at the officer's club on Sunday the 6th (supposedly) so why didn't someone tell him then? Allegedly the recovery had been underway for a day and a half at the "other" site and Major Marcel, Base Intelligence Officer, was kept completely out of the loop? According to Rickett the clean-up was still going on after three days, and with all those MPs and cooks out in the field, it must have been mighty quiet around the 509th that Sunday and Monday - except for all those light planes flying around mapping the site from the air and sundry C-54s flying in and out. And what about all those C-54s that had flown the personnel and equipment in? Did they fly out again immediately, or were they parked on the flightline waiting to leave? Obviously Major Marcel didn't notice them. What happened during the July 8th morning confab with Blanchard and the guys? Didn't any of them tell Marcel about the other recovery site with the bodies and the spaceship? Obviously not, but why? Wasn't he trustworthy enough? He was already in the loop having retrieved the rest of the debris; why freeze him out of details about the other site? >He was at Roswell base the following mornng until shortly after >noon when the he was sent to Fort Worth with the debris he had >recovered from the day before. When he arrived at Fort Worth, he was >kept there until late on July 9, when two witnesses place him on a >return flight back to Roswell. He wouldn't have been there when the >major recovery occurred out at the Brazel ranch. But the recovery was already underway on the morning of the 5th. >Hence, no stories of C-54s and all manner of experts. He didn't notice any activity which meant he was either terribly unobservant, or there was nothing going on to see. > no sudden influx of unknown personnel, no heightened state of >alert at the base, no major road trains driving out into the desert >and, most importantly, no stories about recovered flying saucers - >complete ones this time - and ET bodies being stored in aircraft >hangars. >Again, he wouldn't have been there. Well... A heightened state of alert should have been noticeable (if there was one) when he arrived at the base on the morning of July 6. (or 7), what with him being the Base Intelligence Officer and all. >> As far as Major Marcel was concerned, his "saucer" was a lot >>of sticks/beams and bits of foil-like material that were spirited >>away, never to be seen again. And he wasn't even ordered not to >>talk about this "unearthly debris," either. >It was a common comment from base personnel besides Marcel, that >you just didn't talk about things that happened at the base. That >was understood. But just about everybody on the base knew what was going on; MPs and cooks and chauffeur's first cousins twice removed on their maternal grandmother's side, they've all had their Roswell stories to tell. Marcel remained on the base for another 12 months and we're supposed to believe that nobody ever said "Boy Jesse, that was weird business, huh?" >BTW, Marcel did sign a security oath upon leaving active duty, but >this was probably standard operating procedure. How did we first hear about Marcel's disk recovery? Oh, that's right. He told one of his Ham radio buddies who told someone who told Stan Friedman. Good to see Marcel took his oath seriously. No, wait a second, he was never sworn to secrecy about the "disk" recovery, was he? I guess that was all right then. >>I don't understand how documenting Blanchard's career has any >>bearing on the "disk" story. >The fact that he was a "brilliant officer" and a rising star in >the Air Force with many high-level friends like LeMay and Ramey >might also explain why he could write a press release on his own >authority, and not suffer serious consequences when it blew up >into a media feeding frenzy. Is this Explanation #7, or are we repeating one of the earlier scenarios again? Not trying to be flippant but it's tough to keep track of all these different versions of what _really_ happened. [..carried to other message..] >Contrary to claims of the debunking community, this particular >style radar reflector was far from unique to the Mogul Project. The comments from Ramey, Yates and a weather bureau spokesman support the claim that the reflectors were not in widespread use at that time. According to Moore, it was rare to be using sounding balloons - for very high altitude work - with the rawin targets. >Newton himself in 1947 said it could have come from any of 80 >other weather stations and they were launched every >day. That was attributed to him, but remember that the last time he'd seen an "identical" balloon was over two years previously during the invasion of Okinawa. >He was backed up by the comments of other weather officers, Marcel was not a weather officer. >plus the launching of IDENTICAL weather targets in Kansas City and >near Wright Field the following day, as part of a nationwide saucer >debunking campaign. Remember Alamogordo and what was going on there. >There is a good deal more evidence of a debris swap, such as >the sudden appearance of a strong odor associated with this >balloon, which NOBODY had ever mentioned BEFORE in association with >the debris at the Brazel place. Think about this for a moment. Where was the smelly debris? Inside the shack with Marcel and Brazel, or outside? If it was inside with them, recall what Marcel and Brazel had eaten for dinner: cold beans. Now, beans can have a curious effect on the human digestive system and... Um. Did you ever see the movie "Blazing Saddles"? But seriously... The smell J. Bond Johnson detected in Ramey's office could have been due to the release of concentrated fumes from debris that had been wrapped for a couple of hours -- or Major Marcel was still having trouble with those cold beans he'd eaten the night before. >> It was later flown to Wright Field where, according to >>the USAF 'Mogul' report, it was confirmed as meteorological >>equipment by a Colonel Duffy. >This was a second-hand, UNCORROBORATED anecdote by the former Mogul >Project Officer and head of security. Could you think of anyone more reliable? ;-) Robert Todd did speak with Duffy and he confirmed the debris brought in from Roswell was weather balloon material. He wasn't able to state positively that it had come from a Mogul flight, but if it had been any old balloon junk brought in to substitute for the "saucer" debris, nobody would have bothered to take it all the way to AMC for identification in the first place. >It would take me a long time to point out some of the >inconsistencies in this story. I have done it >elsewhere recently, and this post is already EXTREMELY long. How about _this_ one! (And there's more to come tomorrow... *shudder*) Please let me know the name of your post and I'll check it out on Deja News when time permits. Thank you. >>I can't say where the flying saucer and the ET bodies ended up, >>though. >Nobody can say where the so-called Mogul debris ended up either. Probably the dumpster. Wasn't good for anything else. >Ramey and his henchmen first told the press that the special >flight to Wright Field had been cancelled. There was no reason to >send it there, because it was, after all, nothing but a humble, >torn-up weather balloon. Which of course it wasn't. Have you forgotten about Mogul so soon? >A few hours later, the story got changed. Don't forget there was confusion about the _type_ of balloon and that's why it had to be sent to AMC. [...] >The GAO did try to search some of Wright Field's command records, but >found nothing. There was also no record in FBI files that the FBI >was ever told anything about what Wright Field concluded, including >Duffy's alleged identification. What more was there to say? The FBI TWX said they weren't planning any follow-up. If nobody from AMC phoned them that would have been the end of it. >And for some reason, Trakowski after supposedly being told about >it by Duffy, failed to make a record of what happened to this >balloon for Mogul records or telling any of his people about it. Prof. Moore said the launch of Flight #4 was a hastily organized test flight. Everything about it was disposable except for the fact that it was part of a TOP SECRET program. >And Mogul DID keep track of its balloon recoveries or what happened >to them. Wherever possible. >Another thing Trakowski failed to do was mention anything >about this incident two years later, when Project Grudge requested >that he correlate Mogul launches with UFO reports. Are you suggesting that some June 4 UFO sighting could've been explained by Flight #4? Which one(s)? >Trakowski said NONE of the early Moguls could possibly account for >any of the reports being studied, Was Roswell being studied? I don't recall any mention of Roswell in the GRUDGE files. >including such reports as Kenneth Arnold's, >being launched at the wrong time and in the wrong place. For some >reason Trakowski failed to mention anything about one of their >balloons at one time being mistaken for a crashed flying saucer. Was in it his terms of reference? Was he specifically asked to correlate "crashed saucer reports" with Mogul flights? Not trying to split hairs here, but the Arnold etc., sightings were of flying objects. The Mogul debris was only called a "flying disk" _well_ after the fact. >Those are among those nagging inconsistencies I mentioned above. I have to admit I don't find them especially nagging. >>Thought-provoking post, Vince, thanks. Perhaps we can use this >>opportunity to clear up the mystery of "Who Wrote The Roswell Press >>Release?" >>My guess: Major Marcel In the Study With The Typewriter... ;-) >I guess you haven't been keeping track of the Clues. It's tough. They keep changing all the time. One moment a witness is a hero, the next a villain. First one crash site over here, then two over there. First one saucer, then two saucers, only the first saucer wasn't a saucer at all, it was heel-shaped... >Miss Blanchard, Sgt. Haut, Mr. McQuiddy, and all the other >evidence suggest that Col. Blanchard did it with the Telephone >in his Office. His accomplice was General Ramey with a Weather >Balloon in Fort Worth. ;-) General Ramey _solved_ the mystery. It was Major Marcel With Saucers In His Eyes who created it. Best, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt 2. From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:30:28 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:01:14 -0400 Subject: Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt 2. Part Two of What _Really_ Happened At Roswell - or Something... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Roswell: Historical Facts >>From: legion@werple.net.au [John Stepkowski] >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell: Historical Facts >>To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >>Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:30:53 +1000 (EST) >As the papers the next day reported, both the Army and Navy were >making a concerted effort to stop all the flying saucer reports. This claim is based on one U.P. wire story which is a confusing read. The July 9, Las Vegas _Review-Journal_ headlined the article: Flying Disc Tales Decline As Army, Navy Crack Down While the Escondido (Ca.) _Daily Times Advocate_ ran the story with the a different headline: Disc Reports Drop As Army, Navy Track Rumors Quite a difference, isn't it? Journalistic hyperbole, perhaps? I'm not sure what "track rumors" means exactly - make note of them perhaps? - but the text of the article doesn't report any "suppression" of disc stories by the military, and the claims made in the opening paragraph aren't substantiated by the body of the article: (UP) -- Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the sky fell off sharply today as the army and navy began a concentrated campaign to stop the rumors. One by one, persons who thought they had their hands on the $3,000 offered for a genuine flying saucer found their hands full of nothing. [...] Any idea what that's supposed to mean? There were lots of people with a "genuine flying saucer" in their hands and these "genuine saucers" were now worthless? [..snipped and carried to other message..] >My personal opinion is that Blanchard initially acted alone, since >there seemed to be genuine surprise at first on the part of the >high brass. That would have been insubordination. Why would he act alone when all he had to do was reach out and call General Ramey on the phone: "Hello, General? Butch Blanchard here. Something has come up and I need your advice..." Easy. >Gen. Dubose and Marcel both said that it was >Ramey, or his staff, who quickly dreamed it up to get the press [..carried to other message..] >It's still a puzzlement to me exactly what happened. I'm with you all the way here, David! :-) [....] >The Mogul balloons were neoprene rubber weather balloons. The radar >reflectors were made primarily of balsa wood and aluminum foil and >maybe paper. I've been familiar with all these materials since >about the age of 6. And as far as I'm aware those items were not part of the natural flora of the New Mexico landscape. They had to come from somewhere. It would have been a a gross dereliction of duty not to have investigated the origins of the material. Somewhere along the line of enquiry someone would have known that the U.S. was developing balloons as spying platforms. The possibility existed that other countries were doing the same. Also remember that this was a time when bacteriological warfare was a major concern. Only the U.S. had A-bombs, but anthrax and a whole host of other nasties could easily be delivered to America using balloons. This was even considered in a July 8 newswire story outlining initial Washington assessments of what "flying disks" might be. [...] >Yet we're supposed to believe that these hot shot Air Force guys >at Roswell had never seen a weather balloon or a radar target, >From a distance, probably. >and were also totally unfamiliar with rubber, aluminum foil, balsa >wood, etc., and therefore ascribed all sorts of fantastic properties >to these completely ordinary materials. Not everyone did ascribe fantastic properties to these materials. >(Marcel, BTW, had taken a Radar Intelligence course, which >included about 120 hours of training.) >Course work included "Basic Radar," "Scope Interpretation," >"Radar Navigation," "Radar Bombing," "Target Study," "Mission >Planning," "Radar Countermeasures," "Aircraft Recognition," and >"Scope Photography." This IS in Marcel's record. Certainly, but every single item in the Radar Intelligence course had to do with radar bombing and aircraft radar navigation systems. The SCR-584 was a gun-laying radar used in conjunction with the ML-307 radar target by the Army artillery to measure the speed and direction of "winds aloft" at high altitudes. A radar artillery familiarization course is NOT in Marcel's record. >I also find it hard to believe that NOBODY at Roswell knew >anything about Mogul. [...] Roswell may have been notified by phone if a balloon was headed in their direction, but it's difficult to gauge what sort of hazard Mogul trains might have been to aviation. The balloons were designed to operate above the tropopause. That's 50,000 feet-plus, well beyond the maximum service ceiling of any aircraft at Roswell. Prof. Moore stated that there were planes flying chase on the balloons so it would have been easy for them to issue advisories to other air traffic if one train descended too low. >One of these balloons sailed almost directly over Roswell on June >5 (the day after the supposed Roswell incident culprit), yet we're >supposed to believe Roswell base knew nothing of it. Knowing that a balloon - of unknown configuration - is sailing overhead is one thing, identifying the remains a month later is another. >I would think that at the very least, the base commander (Blanchard) >and maybe the senior radar officer would have been briefed on the >matter. Sure, something like: "We're launching experimental high altitude balloons from Alamogordo and they might sail over your base occasionally." There'd be no need to go into details. [...] >>Let's also remember that at this stage nobody was talking about >>interplanetary space ships. >Not true. This certainly was in the newspapers, though not to any >great extent. And not enough to make any impact on the American psyche. A Gallop Poll of August 15, 1947, revealed that an astonishing 90% of Americans were aware of "flying saucers." When asked their opinion as to the possible origins of these "saucers," the majority of explanations chosen were entirely prosaic: secret weapons, mirages, hoaxes, etc. The "Men from Mars/Aliens" angle didn't even garner the 1% necessary to be included in the Poll results. There had been some intelligent public speculation about life on other planets the previous year when the U.S. Army Signal corps began bouncing radar signals off the moon. Major General Harold McClelland told the AP that if intelligent life existed beyond earth, "such signals could be answered. We might even find that other planets had developed techniques superior to our own." Maj. Gen. McClelland, a man before his time. >And secretly, behind the public eye, various factions of the >intelligence community took the reports VERY seriously. And not so secretly. When Kenneth Arnold was interviewed by two TID officers from AMC they told him they'd been aware of saucer reports since April (the Richmond. Va. Met station sighting). >There were public statements from the military In all the papers, such as: >From The _Chicago Daily News_, July 7, 1947: The National Commander in Chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars told newsmen in Columbus, Ohio, it is his understanding General Spaatz had experts combing the country attempting to identify the discs. Capt. Tom Brown of the Air Force public relations Staff in Washington acknowledged that the Air Force had decided there was "something to the saucer reports and have been actively investigating the mystery for ten days without much results." >Remember, Gen. Schulgen's Air Intelligence Staff started a secret >investigation into the best cases the very next day, aided by the >FBI. The July wave peaked on July 6 and 7, 155 and 163 newspaper reports respectively (according to Bloecher). Adding to the need for serious attention was that the July wave had become a truly national event. The majority of sightings before July 4 were reported up and down the Pacific coast and midwest with sporadic sightings further east. After that date reports came in from Michigan, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina, and Canada's Atlantic coast. Prior to July 4 military sources ventured that the "saucers" were only misidentified jet aircraft. The uniformity of reports across the nation after the July 4 holiday long-weekend promptly torpedoed that explanation. >This included the Kenneth Arnold sighting (which was publicly >dismissed as a mirage) and the United Airlines sighting. When >Gen. Twining was reached by the Portland Oregonian on July 7, he >told them that the flying discs were not some secret military craft, >people have evidently seen something, and it was being investigated. Good way to keep the Air Force's interest in "discs" secret; have a General tell the newspapers about it. ;-) >AAF laboratories at Wright Field confirmed Twining's statements. >Of course, a few months down the line, Twining wrote his famous memo, >saying it was the considered opinion of his command that the flying >discs were real, metallic craft under intelligent control. Twining also wrote in his September 23, 1947 letter: [...] h. Due consideration must be given the following: [...] (2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects. No "physical evidence" of any crash, at Roswell or anywhere else. >Wind-tunnel testing of disc models was also underway at Wright >Field. The design of these models mainly being based on eyewitness reports of the saucers. >Behind the scenes, the flying saucers were treated as VERY >real. You're right. Recall what General Schulgen wrote in his SECRET 30 October, 1947, "Intelligence Requirements on Flying Saucer Type Aircraft" memorandum: _OBJECT_ 1. This memo sets forth the current intelligence requirements in the field of Flying Saucer type aircraft. _GENERAL_ 1. An alleged "Flying Saucer" type aircraft or object in flight, approximately the shape of a disc has been reported by many observers from widely scattered places, such as the United States, Alaska, Canada, Hungary, the Island of Guam, and Japan. This object has been reported by many competent observers, including USAF rated officers. Sightings have been made from the ground as well as the air. [...] There's no doubt that the Air Force believed "Flying Saucers" were _real_. But what did they think they were? Again from the Schulgen memo: _INCLOSURE NO. 1_ 1._Research and Development_ a. What German scientists had a better-than-average knowledge of the Horten brother's work and perspective thinking; where are these scientists now located, and what is their present activity? Should be contacted and interrogated. b. What Russian factories are building the Horten VIII design? [...] The rest of the "Research and development" inclosure continued with the theme of Russian development of German advanced aircraft designs and queried the whereabouts of the Horten brothers. (Btw, the genuine Schulgen memo makes no mention of "interplanetary craft" or "metallic foils.") Question: If the USAF had physical proof of extraterrestrial spacecraft as the result of the Roswell "disk" retrieval, why were they so interested in what the Russians were doing with advanced German aircraft designs "liberated" at the end of WW II? U.S. speculation about Russian "flying saucers" was outlined in the following SECRET letter from CIC-Europe to their operatives: SECRET HEADQUARTERS COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS REGION VI 970th COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS DETACHMENT APO 159 10 November 1947 VI-13-1006 D-198239 VI-1611.5 SUBJECT: Flying Saucers To : Commanding Officer Bayreuth Sub Region Nurnberg Sub Region Wurzberg Sub Region Bamberg Sub Region Regional Technical Specialist 1. Considerable material has been gathered by the Air Materiel Command, WRIGHT FIELD, Ohio, concerning the appearance, description and functioning of the object popularly known as "Flying Saucers". A copy of the report from the Air Materiel Command is on file at this Headquarters. 2. The opinion was expressed that some sort of object, such as the flying saucer, did exist. At the present time, construction models are being built for wind tunnel tests. It is further suspected that the flying objects may have been developed from original plans and experiments conducted by the Germans prior to the capitulation. Headquarters, 970th CIO Detachment, European Command is desirous of locating German Aircraft specialists and test pilots who might have some knowlege of similar aircraft. It is requested you canvass your area for possible identity of aircraft specialists or test pilots known in your area with such knowledge. This canvass is to be made discreetly and to conceal our interest in the subject. If any are located, a copy of the Air Materiel Command report with specific EEI's will be forwarded to permit further interrogation and test of knowledge. 3. This canvass, both of files and sources of information, should be begun as soon as possible. Your initial report is due this Headquarters by: Suspense Date 12 Dec 47 BY ORDER OF LT COLONEL WALKER: Signed, WILLIAM E LAHNED JR. Special Agent CIC Operations SECRET Subsequently, agents from AMC handcarried orders to CIC Europe directing them to track down the Horten brothers. If the U.S. had the remains of a spaceship manufactured from extraordinary materials on their hands, why were they so interested in the whereabouts of two German aircraft designers who'd built their advanced but conventional "flying wing" aircraft out of wood, metal and plastic? Any discussion about Roswell must inevitably lead to Col. McCoy, Chief of Intelligence at AMC, Wright-Patterson AFB. On March 17, 1948, he informed the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board (AFSAB) in a SECRET briefing: "We have a new project - PROJECT SIGN - which may surprise you as a development from the so-called mass hysteria of the past summer when we had all the unidentified flying objects or discs. This can't be laughed off. We have over 300 reports which haven't been publicised in the papers from very competent personnel in many instances - men as capable as Dr. K.D. Wood - and practically all Air Force, airline people with broad experience. We are running down every report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of those crash in an area so that we could recover whatever they are." On November 8, 1948, Colonel McCoy responded to an inquiry from Major General C.P. Cabell, Director of USAF Intelligence, with a SECRET letter in which he stated: "...the exact nature of these objects (UFOs) cannot be established until physical evidence, such as that which would result from a crash, has been obtained." Some people have argued that Colonel McCoy would not have had a "need to know" about any crashed UFOs, despite being AMC's Chief of Intelligence, while others suggest he may have felt constrained by what he could discuss in a letter that was only classified "SECRET". This ignores the fact that in July of the same year, Maj. Gen. Cabell had directed his own staff in a TOP SECRET memorandum to examine all intelligence related to UFO reports "to determine the tactics of flying objects and the probability of their existence." Nobody has yet argued that a Major General who was the head of Air Force Intelligence wouldn't have had a "need to know" about a crashed saucer and any related intelligence information, yet more than a year after the alleged Roswell crash, here was Maj. Gen. Cabell asking his own staff and AMC whether the UFO reports had any basis in fact. High-level interest in the "existance" of UFOs wasn't confined to Maj. Gen. Cabell. When AMC's Air Technical Intelligence Centre produced the now famous "Estimate of The Situation" which proposed that "flying saucers" were interplanetary craft, the USAF Chief-of-Staff, Gen. Vandenberg, rejected it. According to Captain Ruppelt, "Vandenberg wouldn't buy interplanetary vehicles. The report lacked proof." One sample of that famous Roswell "fluid metal" would have made a believer out of me, yet none of it was removed from the crashed saucer "goodie box" at Wright-Patterson to show to Gen. Vandenberg. Perhaps the Air Force Chief-of-Staff didn't have a "need to know" either? Not long after the "Estimate," Maj. Gen. Cabell directed his staff to prepare another report about UFOs, "Air Intelligence Division Study No. 100-203-79." This was a TOP SECRET study prepared jointly by the USAF Directorate of Intelligence and the Office of Naval Intelligence to again answer the question of whether these UFOs actually existed. If the Roswell Incident had delivered a crashed spacecraft into the hands of the USAF in July, 1947, a large amount of time and energy was being needlessly wasted by analysts with TOP SECRET clearances a year later while they argued over whether the "saucers" were "real" or not. [...] >>BUT, if Marcel had said - "Look at this stuff, it's incredible! >>You can't break it, bend it, cut it or burn it. And look at these >>weird markings. What the hell are they?" - would Blanchard have >>approved the "flying disc" announcement to be released? >Apparently yes, that's exactly what he did. "Apparently" based on much speculation. >And he didn't just do it on the say-so of Marcel. It's pretty clear >from the testimony of various people, including Haut and Blanchard's >wives, that Blanchard had personally examined the debris and was >puzzled by it. It's pretty obvious he didn't know what the debris was. [...] >According to Gen. Dubose, then Ramey's right-hand man in Fort >Worth, higher command WAS contacted early on, apparently the same >day Mac Brazel sauntered into town on July 6. How confident are you that Brazel did come into town on the 6th? Starting at the beginning: Frank Joyce has said that he first spoke to Brazel on either July 6 _or_ 7. He's not sure which. Both the _Roswell Daily Record_ and the _Roswell Morning Dispatch_ reported that Brazel came into town on Monday the 7th. Phil Klass quotes the July 9 edition of the _Fort Worth Star-Telegram_ which said: "On a trip to town at Corona, N.M., Saturday night (July 5), Brazell (sic) heard the first reference to the 'silver flying disks,' _Major Marcel related_." (Note Major Marcel being quoted.) "Brazell headed home, dug up the remnants of the kites and balloon on Sunday and Monday headed for Roswell to report his find to the sheriff's office." Using information taken from a telephone interview Stan Friedman conducted with Marcel in February, 1979, Loren Gross detailed the events of the Roswell Incident in _UFOs: A History Volume 1_, and stated that Brazel drove into town on July 7th. Marcel told Bob Pratt that he was having lunch in the officers' club when Sheriff Wilcox called him about Brazel. Why would Major Marcel be on the base having lunch at the officer's club on the Sunday (6th) of a three-day weekend holiday? (Was Mrs. Marcel's cooking really that bad? The officers' club food couldn't have been much better given that all the cooks (allegedly) were out in the field guarding and recovering the debris. I wonder what the "Sunday Special" was? Spam on toast?) What new evidence was used to change the date of Brazel's trip into Roswell? >The debris samples he brought were then ordered to Washington by >Gen. McMullen, and then forwarded to Wright Field for analysis. >Sure, Blanchard went through the chain of command. Okay, so contrary to previous explanations, Blanchard _did_ go through the chain of command and wasn't some renegade officer trying to keep on good terms with the locals. But... Let me get this straight. The Air Force had been secretly recovering the "main" debris field since July 5. Three days later Marcel wanders into Blanchard's office with news of the debris at the Foster Ranch. Blanchard calls Ramey who calls the guy in charge of the "saucer" retrieval, and this chap says "Oh fudge! The jig is up. We had been trying to keep this secret but, what the heck, go on, put out a press release and tell everybody about it." Is that what happened? If Air Force HQ was so blase about the "disk" recovery, why didn't they turn the main debris recovery into a media event as well? Imagine the pictures and newsreel coverage of Gen. Ramey, down on one knee, shaking hands with the diminutive visitors. Agents from the William Morris agency would have rushed in to sign the ETs to a longterm contract, and their first project would've been for MGM, a remake of 'The Wizard of Oz' as told from Munchkins' point of view. (Maybe not.) Everything about the "latest" version of Roswell oozed potential deniability. The cover-up was so complete by July 8 that even Blanchard and Marcel didn't know what was happening just 35 miles from their base. Instead of "containing" the situation on the Foster Ranch, we're supposed to believe that "Higher Headquarters" authorised a "flying disk" press release _before_ they'd managed to even recover all of the debris? (Rickett claimed he visited the main debris site three days after the "crash" and material was still being gathered.) Offered two choices - High Risk: issue a "disk" press release; Low Risk: contain the situtation - Headquarters took the High Risk option? >One set of records the GAO tried to locate were the outgoing base >communications, but discovered that they had been destroyed without >authorization a long time ago. Hmmmmm. Prior to publication of the GAO report, several persons were invited to comment on the draft version. Mr. W.G. Seibert, chief of the Appraisal & Disposition Section of the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, challenged the claim made in Congressman Schiff's draft release that any Roswell messages had been destroyed without adequate explanation. Citing Par. 53b of Air Force manual 181-5 which governed the disposal of old records, Seibert wrote that records "accumulated at or below wing level will be scheduled as one item and destroyed after two years." He added: "It is clear from the foregoing that agency records management officials, if acting in accordance with agency regulations then in force, _should_ have destroyed the records in question rather than transfer them to St. Louis. (emphasis in original) The outgoing Roswell messages from October 1946 to December 1949 were not destroyed "illegally" and/or "suspiciously," and incoming messages to Washington, SAC, and Eighth Air Force HQ in Fort Worth _were_ found from July, 1947. No mention of any "flying disk" retrieval operations, high states of alert, upgrading of security measures, mass movements of troops and MPs, etc. For some reason Mr Seibert's objections to the draft release were not noted and the "missing messages" angle was played up in Schiff's press announcement of the GAO report findings. Regardless of whether the debris was Mogul or a spaceship, the most likely means of communication would have been the telephone. The lack of TWXs in this case means nothing. However, the absence of teletype messages outlining a heightened state of alert is significant. An unknown craft from who-knows-where falls to Earth with occupants whose mission and disposition is unknown. This could have been Pearl Harbour all over again. So what happens? Nothing. The military doesn't order all of their bases to mount 'round the clock air patrols. They didn't mobilize AA batteries and hold high-level security meetings to make contingency plans. (After all, the skies were full of these things!) No, the military sat on their hands and did nothing. Anybody would have thought the debris found at Roswell was nothing to get excited about. The only mysteriously "missing" item in this episode is an explanation from Congressman Schiff as to why he ignored Mr Seibert's corrections. >>If Blanchard knew the debris Marcel recovered had incredible, >>almost unearthly properties, would he have permitted that news >>to be released without first consulting Washington? And if one >>of the USAAF's finest had called Washington and told Gen. Ramey >>or Gen. Vandenberg: "This stuff is the most amazing thing I've >>ever seen!" what would've been the response? "Cool! Send it to >>us by first available carrier. >According to Dubose, that's EXACTLY what happened, only 2 days >earlier. According to DuBose... >> Oh, and you may as well tell the world. Get your >>PIO to send out a press release about it. You don't know what the >>stuff is? Oh, call it, um, a 'flying disk.'" >>How likely does that sound? >How likely does it sound that he would issue a press release about >a simple balloon crash? Not likely at all if he'd known it was a balloon. But you're forgetting that Mogul was not _a_ simple balloon crash. It was much bigger than that in both size and importance. >Blanchard seemingly either issued the release because 1) He was >something of a renegade officer who sincerely believed the local >public should be informed of something significant that concerned >them, Wasn't he a dedicated officer who went through channels as you pointed out a few pars back? >or 2) preplanned debunking campaign to kill once and for all >public interest in the reported saucers. First build it up, then >make it look ridiculous. In that case Gen. Ramey should have gone on NBC radio on the evening of July 8th and said, "Flying saucers? *chuckle* No, no such thing. They're all just balloons!" But he didn't, and neither did General Yates. Continued in Part Three... - John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt 1. From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:26:24 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:00:26 -0400 Subject: Roswell: Historical Facts - Pt 1. Hi David; Sorry for the delay in replying. Life. You know... To prevent duplication and further straining the quality of Errol's mercy and good graces, I've carried some of the points in this post over to another one (*coming tomorrow*). I hope that doesn't prove too confusing (or boring) for all concerned. We may not agree on everything but perhaps we can better define what Roswell is all about as it creaks towards its 50th year. Onwards... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Roswell: Historical Facts >>From: legion@werple.net.au [John Stepkowski] >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell: Historical Facts >>To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >>Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:30:53 +1000 (EST) >> > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >> > We can argue the merits of particular Roswell witnesses, but >> > there is one inescapable historical fact that can't be denied. >> > The commander of the Roswell Army Air Field officially >> > announced that the U.S. Army Air Force had recovered a >> > "flying disk." >>There is a lot of doubt about this. [...] >>And yet the "flying disk" release states that: "The _Intelligence_ >>office of the 509th Bombardment group ... announced that the field >>had come into possession of a flying saucer. [...] > This WAS NOT the original press release. > It's how the Roswell Daily Record reported the story on the > afternoon of July 8 (And Marcel was gone by this time to Fort > Worth). But the press release as printed in other papers went: > "The many rumors regarding the flying discs became reality > yesterday when the intelligence office Intelligence office = Major Marcel. [...] > who in turn notified Major Jesse A. Marcel, There's that man again. > and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters." And again. > Please note that there is NOTHING here about the disc being > released "over the authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel." NOR did it > say that the intelligence office announced it. That was how the > Daily Record reported it, not how the orignal press release read. Any idea where these additional details come from? Did the newspapers just pluck Major Marcel's name out of the air? [...] > There is no indication anywhere in Marcel's records that he ever > jumped over the heads of his commanders, yet that is the contention > in many of these silly skeptical theories. You've used a lot of inflammatory words and phrases; "exceeding authority", "insubordination", "jumping over the heads of his commanders," and I don't understand why. The point I raised was that Maj. Marcel was the person who picked up the "flying disk" story and carried it. >>In the _OMNI_ article, "The Truth About Roswell", a copy of which can >>be found at: http://www.omnimag.com/o07jul/ros_truth.html, Dava Sobel >>questioned Walter Haut about this point and more confusion arises: [...] >> When I pressed Haut about the authorship of the release, he >> answered frankly: "I cannot honestly remember whether I wrote it, >> whether he had given me the information and told me `This is what >> I want in it.' It was not that big a production at that time, in >> my mind." >>If Haut was ordered to announce this astonishing discovery to the >>world by Col. Blanchard, why do all roads lead to Maj. J. A. Marcel >>of the Intelligence office? > This is utter nonsense. The news releases referred to Major Marcel. This does _not_ mean Marcel did anything insubordinate, illegal, or even mildy naughty, just that all roads point to Marcel being given the task -- either by request, circumstance, or delegation -- of handling the matter. > Please note again that Marcel would have been guilty of > insubordination for doing this and would certainly > been severely punished after the following press feeding frenzy > that went clear to the Pentagon. The worst "crime" Marcel might have committed was being a little over-excited in "magnifying" the importance of what he'd found. Not exactly a hanging offense. [...] > Haut has also been quoted theorizing that Blanchard > himself was just following orders, and that both he and Blanchard > may have been "set up." Would senior officers in Washington really want to undermine the respect and credibility of their only A-bomb base commander? > All along, however, Haut has been clear that the information for > the press release came from Blanchard's office, whether it was > dictated by phone or already written out is a side issue. Can you say what you're basing the "clarity" of Haut's recollections on? Haut's opinion of Roswell has been all over the place for some time, except in the pages of the official Roswell books. In those he displayed great certainty. But away from the reassuring influence of the Roswell researchers, Mr Haut altered his opinion of what happened in July, 1947, as often as most of us change our socks. Returning to the Frank Kuznik article I quoted from in my previous message: >From 'Aliens in the Basement,' by Frank Kuznik, _Air & Space/Smithsonian_, August/September 1992. [...] "I got a call from the base commander, who basically dictated what was in the press release." Here Haut is stating that Blanchard "basically dictated what was in the press release." Three years later in the 1995 _OMNI_ interview he stated that he couldn't remember where the release had come from or who had written it. Kuznik continues: And how did he feel when the bottom dropped out of the story? "I probably wiped the perspiration from my brow and said Thank goodness, we're off the hook now," he said. "Very frankly, I don't think I believed that we had something from outer space. I think most of us felt we were being hoodwinked somewhere down the pike." This is not, incidentally, what Haut believes today. "I feel there was a crash of an extraterrestrial vehicle near Corona," he says firmly. At the time of the Roswell incident Haut "didn't believe that we had something from outer space." But he changed his mind subsequently, after discussing the story with Roswell researchers. In an article in the February 18, 1996 _Washington Post_ by Sue Anne Pressley, (page A03), Mr Haut was wavering again: Haut, 74 and a founder of the nonprofit UFO museum, is not sure if he believes in alien craft -- "although we are darn foolish if we think we are the only ones" -- but he does believe there was a government coverup, of something. "As time goes by, the story changes. More witnesses have come forward," said Haut. "The current theory is, I see it, there were two craft, they had a midair collision. . . . After a brief flirtation with the "second saucer theory", Mr Haut featured in CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 4, -- May 1, 1997, and we were treated to a new revelation about what had happened at Roswell: Haut learned a few days after the event that the whole thing had been "a screwup": Also noted in the KTVU story is the fact that Walter Haut, former press officer for the 509th Bomb Wing at Roswell AAF who issued the famous July 8, 1947 press release claiming recovery of a flying disc, now says he had learned a few days after the announcement that "it was a screwup." Though widely quoted in recent years as believing an unusual craft had been recovered, the FOX news story showed Haut saying he thinks it was just a balloon. Haut was one of the original founders of the International UFO Museum in Roswell, New Mexico, but has now cut all ties with the museum. Current museum director Deon Crosby told CNI News that Haut has referred to the UFO claims as "just a bunch of hooey." How do we judge the "clarity" of Haut's recollections now? A serious question, btw. One of the enduring problems in UFO research is how one judges the credibility of any particular witness. It was usually the case that consistency during the re-telling of an event was considered to be a sign of reliability; major changes and embellishments were things to worry about. Several previously highly regarded "first-hand" witnesses such as Ragsdale, Dennis and Kaufmann are now viewed with suspicion. In some cases, as in Kevin Randle's latest book _UFOs in the 90s_, (fine book, btw!) Ragsdale and Dennis have been cut loose altogether. Should we now re-evaluate the testimony of other witnesses? And if they're no longer with us or physically able to be questioned, what then? Do we place their testimony in the "interesting" basket, embrace it totally, what? [...] > Art McQuiddy, editor of the Roswell Morning Dispatch, said that 3 > or 4 months later, Blanchard, a good friend of his, reluctantly > admitted to authorizing the press release. McQuiddy says > Blanchard also told him, "The stuff I saw, I've never seen > anyplace else in my life." No surprise there, but _how_ did Blanchard authorise the statement to be made. What did Colonel Blanchard understand a "flying disk" to be? Did he tell McQuiddy? > (McQuiddy also recalled getting a call from the base shortly > after the press release advising him of the "error" and saying > the wreckage was actually the remains of a radiosonde balloon. How shortly? An hour? The whole episode didn't last long. > Many people don't realize this, and think it originated with Ramey > several hours later.) Gen. Ramey told J. Bond Johnson the debris was from a "weather balloon" about an hour after the "disk" story went out on the newswire. > Similarly, Maj. Gen. Woodrow Swancutt, another good friend of > Blanchard's, said that Blanchard told them his men had retrieved > something very unusual and significant. Swancutt, who in July > 1947 was assistant Roswell operations officer, said Blanchard "was > convinced he had something very important at first." Why would none of these comments be applicable to Mogul? > Blanchard's two wives also confirmed that Blanchard had seen the > debris, that it was highly unusual, and that it wasn't from a > balloon. Anne Blanchard, e.g., in 1979 said that her husband knew > the debris wasn't from a balloon and not made by us. At first he > thought it might be Russian because of the strange symbols on it; > later he realized it wasn't Russian either. Did he state categorically that it had come from a spaceship? > The real question is why. You're right; Why make any sort of announcement at all? Blanchard could have had a quiet word with Wilcox, Brazel, et al. and told them the material they'd found was from a secret U.S. project. A wink, a nod, an appeal to their patriotic duty, and the whole thing would have been hushed up. According to "Roswell: What Really Happened - Mark IV" the retrieval operation was going swimmingly. A few archaeology students who thought they might have found a plane crash, the local fire brigade despatched to the area only to find no fire, and the military in place to shoo them away. Why suddenly make it front-page news when nobody in town knew anything about it? I suppose we should also add that nobody at RAAF knew anything about it, either. According to R/S#2, a major recovery operation was allegedly being staged out of Roswell right under the noses of Blanchard and Marcel, and they didn't suspect a thing. Clear evidence of how perfectly the "cover-up" was being executed. So why blow it with a silly press release? >> And just who decided to describe the debris as coming from >> a "flying disk" when Marcel never saw anything remotely >> disk-shaped? > It's called logic. Disk shaped objects of unknown origin are being > reported flying at high speeds all over the country. Then Marcel > and Blanchard saw anomalous debris which doesn't seem like it could > be made by us. They conclude the debris probably comes from a > crashed disc. Despite not having the slightest idea of what a "disc" was? > Some of these high-speed saucer reports came from New Mexico within > the previous week, including from military scientists at White > Sands. As intelligence officer, Marcel may have been privy to such > information. Or he may not have been privy to this information. This is all speculation and as far as I'm aware Marcel never mentioned the Las Cruces sighting. If he had been briefed, why didn't he mention it and bolster his reasons for concluding that the material had come from one of those mysterious "disks"? > One CIC/OSI agent located by Karl Pflock, Maj. William O'Brien, >knew Sgt. Jack Williams, the third CIC agent serving on Marcel's >staff with Rickett and Cavitt. When the C/O, Maj. John Womack, >who may have served with Williams at Roswell, This is just a shot in the dark, but if Womack "may have" served with Willliams, does this also mean he "may not" have served with him? >Womack did tell O'Brien that there was considerable CIC >activity in July 1947 at Roswell, and that he >and other agents had been posted to watch the skies with >binoculars for an extended period. Once again, such stories >aren't just the fantasy of Jesse Marcel. Given Roswell's importance as the only A-bomb ready base in the world, one could easily imagine constant and relentless CIC activity. The question that immediately presents itself, however, is how did Womack know for certain that he was detailed to "Watch the Skies" in July of 1947, and not the following year when the Roswell/Walker AFB AFOSI detachment joined the 17th District OSI green fireball investigations? >In a phone interview with Leonard Stringfield, Marcel also said >that he and Cavitt inspected a large, intact chunk of debris about >10 feet across that Brazel had hauled into a shed with his >tractor. If this was the case, then the debris had to have come >from a larger craft of some sort. The craft was only supposed to have been about 25 X 15 feet. Remove a ten-foot chunk and enough debris to cover a couple of football fields and you have to wonder if there was anything left to find at the "second" crash site. >Johnny McBoyle of Roswell radio station KSWS also allegedly >visited the crash site, probably on July 8. Didn't McBoyle deny this to one or more researchers? >>Contrary to established Roswell lore, Haut did not know how the >>release came to be written. If anyone has any ideas about this >>I'd appreciate hearing them. >Haut doesn't clearly remember if it was dictated to him over the >phone by Blanchard or whether he picked it up prewritten at >Blanchard's office, but he's been pretty clear it came from >Blanchard and was authorized by him. Haut's very clear about this in the Roswell books, certainly. >Other witnesses back up this contention. Were they in the office at the time? > >> Two points should be considered about this historic fact: > >> 1. Using a sensational "RAAF captures flying disk" press release > >> as a cover story for some other incident would attract more > >> attention to the incident than for the AAF to simply say nothing > >> at all. >>Which is precisely what happened. Phones into Roswell and the Air >>Corps in Washington were deluged with callers from all over the >>world. It's difficult to comprehend the "flying saucer" Zeitgeist >>now, but after the Arnold sighting on June 24th, there wasn't a day >>when "flying disk/disc" stories weren't making front page news. >Not really true. My collection of newspaper stories indicates that >most papers didn't begin to pick up reporting on the flying discs >until around July 5 & 6. One more reason why we should be grateful to people like Loren Gross and Jan Aldrich. They've uncovered many UFO accounts in regional U.S. newspapers. The "saucers" were big news in smalltown America, and this grass roots interest and familiarity played a large part in the widespread fascination with the subject when the second larger wave occurred over the July 4th holiday weekend. > One of the most widely reported incidents was that of a United > Airlilne crew over Idaho which had a very similar sighting to Kenneth > Arnolds in the late evening of July 4. United Airlines Flight 105. > Like Arnold's sighting, these were large objects capable of moving > very fast (Arnold calculated 1200+ mph.) Just a "guesstimate," really. Arnold initially calculated that the objects had travelled much faster - 1,690 mph (48 miles in 1 minute 42 seconds). He later revised this to 1,200 mph and conceded that he still might have been out by 2-300 mph. As far as Flight 105 is concerned, the crew of the DC-3 didn't appear to have noted the speed of the objects. The pilot of UAL Flight 105, Capt. E.J. Smith, wrote an article for INS which was picked up by Reuter and published around the world. Note that while the story refers to "disks," Smith himself wrote that he was unable to determine "their exact shape." >From _The Oregonian_ - July 6, 1947 'Frankly, I'm Baffled,' Says Airliner Pilot After Observing Queer Airborne Objects By Capt. E. J. SMITH Written expressly for International News Service How the "flying discs" appear from the air is described by Capt. E. J. Smith, United Airlines pilot, who got an aerial view Friday night while on the northwest leg of a Salt Lake City to Seattle flight. SEATTLE, July 5 (INS) I didn't believe the stories about flying discs myself when I first heard about them. Now I don't know what to believe. We were on our regular run from Salt Lake City to Seattle just eight minutes out of Boise when my co-pilot, First Officer Ralph Stevens, who was flying at the time, blinked our landing lights. I asked him what he was doing and he replied: "There's a plane approaching off our bow." But a few seconds later we both decided the object was not a plane, it was a flying disc. Four More Appear We saw only one of them at first, but soon four more appeared to the left of our plane, in a northwesterly direction. We couldn't tell what their exact shape was except to notice that they definitely were larger than our plane (a DC-3), fairly flat, smooth on the bottom and rough on top. Just to check, I called our stewardess, Marty Morrow, to the cockpit, and simply asked her: "Do you see anything in the sky around us?" Immediately she pointed at the discs and said, "Yes, what are those?" That's what we wanted to know, so I contacted our ground radio station at nearby Ontario, Or., gave them our estimated direction and altitude and asked if they could see them. They couldn't. Shortly thereafter, the discs disappeared for a few minutes then reappeared again. This time they were in our view for 15 minutes. None of our eight passengers saw the discs because they were off our bow, and we didn't think to turn the plane, so intense was our interest. It was impossible to estimate their speed or if they were moving at all. All I know is that when they did disappear they vanished suddenly. In all the time Ralph and I were flying during the war, and in my 14 years with United Airlines, I've never seen anything like it. I leave Saturday night on a flight for Chicago and you can bet your life I'm going to keep my eyes open. Up until last night, we all had discounted 90 per cent of the reports we'd read in the papers or heard over the radio, but now. Frankly, I'm baffled. >With stories like these, if you find lots of pieces of highly >anomalous debris that suddenly appears out in the middle of the desert >scattered along a long, linear trajectory (as described by Marcel and >Brazel), and the finder (Brazel) tells you he heard a loud explosion, >you might justifiably conclude it could have come from an exploded >craft traveling at high speed. Or you might have been like Capt. Smith and conceded you were "baffled" until the material was examined by more qualified personnel. >>What hasn't been explored, however, is that nobody knew what a >>"flying disc" or "saucer" was. Newspapers of the time used >>"flying saucers" as a generic term for all unidentified object >>reports. [...] >Pretty much true. Except for the usual hoax, hysteria, and >mistaken identity theories were the belief that they might be some >new secret weapon, and to a lesser extent that they weren't human >in origin. And don't forget the Russians. The _Denver Post_ ran stories over the July 4th holiday weekend reporting "wild rumors" sweeping through Hawaii that World War III had broken out and that "saucers" were Russian weapons. >One such story by nationally syndicated columnist >Walter Winchell was carried on July 8, and reported on similar >sightings dating from over the last 150 years, collected by R. >DeWitt Miller, author of "Forbidden Mysteries." _Forbidden Mysteries_ was a collection of Miller's articles from _Coronet_ magazine. The majority of them were based on material previously gathered by Charles Fort. >Miller concluded the modern reports Miller noted his excitement at the number of modern reports but he made little distinction between them and those from long ago. He maintained, like Fort, that the saucer/disk reports were part of some "very old" phenomenon. Miller concluded his UP article with: This is not the first time that strange things have occurred. But the previous ones have been "forgotten." Many weird things have crossed the skies of this earth. (Cue spooky music - <g>) > were caused by either 1) Secret military devices, 2) Interplanetary > craft, or 3) Interdimensional beings. Sound familiar? It's worth a chuckle to read the watered-down "GRUDGE" material, released in an AMC report in 1949 under the title of "PROJECT SAUCER," and note that Charles Fort's books are mentioned. Some of Fort's ideas about the "sky guests" were interesting, to say the least. He once speculated that the earth might have been explored and colonized long ago by "something" and we were now its "property." Imagine the Air Force filling people's heads with such ideas. ;-) >>Nobody in their right mind would have used a "flying disk" cover >>story during the Arnold wave of 1947 and not expect to get swamped >>by reporters >And that's the big mystery of the press release. One theory >advanced by Haut is that Blanchard was rather unusual in that he >really believed in good public relations and keeping the locals >informed of base happenings. Sounds unlikely. A base commander is like the mayor of a town. He only presides over what happens within the boundaries of his command. Procedures for handling the retrieval of a disk/whatever would require directions from "Higher Headquarters," and I doubt they would factor Blanchard's desire to earn brownie points with the locals into any wider issues of national security. >The other theory by Haut is that Blanchard was "set up" by those >higher in the chain of command. That makes no sense. Don't forget, the cover-up was in place and working just peachy-keen, according to R/S#2. Even Blanchard didn't know about the recovery operation taking place out of his own base - supposedly. >A third, similar theory, advanced by Gen. Arthur Exon, among >others (e.g. Kevin Randle), is that it was a very clever cover >story orchestrated from above, and Blanchard and unspecified others at Roswell were involved in it from the beginning. But these "unspecified others" didn't include Major Marcel, the base Intelligence Officer? We'd been led to believe that everybody thought incredibly highly of Major Marcel. Obviously not highly enough to let him in on the actual "saucer" recovery or tell him about the bodies. >The whole point was to stir up interest and then have the thing >quickly debunked and ridiculed. If this was the whole point then you'd think the "brains" behind this exercise would have got it right. They didn't. Whoever came up with this "brilliant plan" - let's call them the "D" (for "Disinfo") Team - failed to observe the most elementary of military procedures: "Gentlemen, synchronize your watches!" They didn't, and screwed up, big time. If the purpose of the D-Team's exercise was to raise the expectation level of the nation about "saucers" to fever pitch and then quickly dispel it, the master planners of this disinfo opus blew it: The Haut release was issued too late in the day to make it into anything but the papers on the West coast and Midwest. Papers in the rest of the country had already put their last issues to bed. By the time the "disk" release made it into the first editions of the East coast papers the next day, the story had evaporated. Instead of headlines announcing "Air Force Finds Flying Disk! World Simmers With Excitement!" it was "Army Air Force Doesn't Find Flying Disk, and in other news, Dog bites Man..." (Yes, okay, slight exaggeration.) But the attempt to whip up national "saucer fever" had failed. For the D-Team's saucer discrediting campaign to have worked it was vital for the initial "disk" announcement to make a national impact. Overnight the people of America (and the world) would have let their imaginations and expectations run wild until the next morning when the D-Team delivered the 'coup de grace' with their "sorry, just a balloon" announcement. All that anticipation and repressed excitement - for nought. It would be a long time (the D-Team surmised) before people would get excited about those "saucer" things again. But it didn't happen like that. The country was gripped momentarily with excitement, then the story fizzled out. Roswell "Mark IV" tells us that the cover-up started on July 5. The D-Team had three days to get their act together and make sure the press release that Haut wrote/dictated/found on the back of a cereal box, made it to the newswires from Roswell by 9 AM on the morning of the 8th. Then the release would have made all the papers and the disinfo attempt would have received maximum coverage. According to previous incarnations of the "Roswell: What Really Happened" story, the poor timing would have been a natural consequence of events; Haut only went into town with the release after Marcel had returned from his trip to the Foster ranch. But since that version of events has been superseded by "Roswell: What Really Happened _For Sure_", we have no explanation for the bungled timing. Unless... You don't suppose the names of the D-Team were Larry, Curly and Moe, do you? Another "teensy" problem with this D-Team plan was that "saucer" sightings were not confined to the U.S. By the time of the Roswell "disk" story release, UFO reports were coming in from Canada, Europe, and Australia, and a major wave was underway in South America. One "not a flying saucer, just a balloon" media stunt in New Mexico wasn't going to explain away a series of saucer sightings in Chile. Or Italy. Or France. Or New Zealand. Or... Continued Part Two.... - John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Intel's new processor From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:18:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Intel's new processor Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:29:19 +0200 (MET DST) To: updates@globalserve.net From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Subject: Intel's new processor Does anyone have more info on this? > "Intel using captured alien technology to build a revolutionary > processor" > Area 51, Nellis AFB, Nevada > By Jim Brooks > June 6, 1997, 5:55 p.m. PST > Documents declassified by the Freedom of Information Act that > was passed by Congress, and supporting testimony from Bob Lazar, > have revealed that Intel Corporation has spent the last > several years examining alien technology and has now been able > to use it build a microprocessor that is considered to be > several centuries ahead of its time. I'm enclosing a Scientific American article from March 1995, which summarizes current research in developing hybrid biological computer circuits. None of what I see here necessarily indicates alien technology, but largely represents attempts to develop optical computers that are capable of mimicking human nerve net processing and high density storage. I attended a conference on optical computing a dozen years ago when it was just getting started, and this appears to be a natural progression from what was discussed back then. The first application would probably be extreme high density, three-dimensional optical memories, where you can pack a terrabyte of memory into the size of a sugar cube. Devices like this are already in labs (though not yet stable or practical). Another article on this can be found in the July/August 1994 issue of Scientific American. David Rudiak Protein-Based Computers Devices fabricated from biological molecules promise compact size and faster data storage. They lend themselves to use in parallel-processing computers, three-dimensional memories and neural networks by Robert R. Birge The world's most advanced supercomputer does not require a single semiconductor chip. The human brain consists of organic molecules that combine to form a highly sophisticated network able to calculate, perceive, manipulate, self-repair, think and feel. Digital computers can certainly perform calculations much faster and more precisely than humans can, but even simple organisms are superior to computers in the other five domains. Computer designers may never be able to make machines having all the faculties of a natural brain, but many of us think we can exploit some special properties of biological molecules--particularly proteins--to build computer components that are smaller, faster and more powerful than any electronic devices on the drawing boards thus far. The size issue is especially pressing. Since the 1960s the computer industry has been compelled to make the individual components on semiconductor chips smaller and smaller in order to manufacture larger memories and more powerful processors economically. These chips essentially consist of arrays of switches, usually of the kind known as logic gates, that flip between two states--designated as 0 and 1--in response to changes in the electric current passing through them. (Computers typically represent all information in terms of such binary digits, or bits.) If the trend toward miniaturization continues, the size of a single logic gate will approach the size of molecules by about the year 2030. But there is a serious roadblock. Each factor of two in miniaturization increases the cost of manufacturing a chip by a factor of five. At some point the search for ever smaller electronic devices may be limited by economics rather than physics [see "The Wall," by Gary Stix, "Science and Business," SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, July 1994]. On the other hand, the use of biological molecules as the active components in computer circuitry may offer an alternative approach that is more economical. Molecules can potentially serve as computer switches because their atoms are mobile and change position in a predictable way. If we can direct that atomic motion and thereby consistently generate at least two discrete states in a molecule, we can use each state to represent either 0 or 1. Such switches offer reductions in the size of hardware because they are themselves small--about one thousandth the size of the semiconductor transistors used today as gates (which measure about one micron, or a millionth of a meter, across). Indeed, a biomolecular computer could in principle be one fiftieth the size of a present-day semiconductor computer composed of a similar number of logic elements. In the computer business, smaller gate size generally makes for a faster device, and protein-based computers could theoretically operate 1,000 times faster than modern computers. At this stage no one is seriously proposing a purely biomolecular computer. Far more likely, at least for the near future, is the use of hybrid technology in which molecules and semiconductors are used in combination. Such an approach should provide computers that are one fiftieth the size and as much as 100 times faster than current ones. Biological molecules also appeal because they can be designed one atom at a time--giving engineers the control they need to manufacture gates able to perform exactly as an application requires. Further, bioelectronic computers should help in the ongoing pursuit of more adaptable computers. Computer scientists are already enhancing the versatility of electronic devices by developing new configurations of computer hardware known as architectures. Researchers have introduced parallel-processing architectures, which allow multiple sets of data to be manipulated simultaneously. In order to expand memory capacities, they are devising hardware that stores data in three dimensions instead of the usual two. And scientists have built neural networks that mimic the learning-by-association capabilities of the brain, an ability necessary for significant progress toward artificial intelligence. The ability of certain proteins to change their properties in response to light should simplify the hardware required for implementation of these architectures. Although no computer components made entirely or partly from proteins are on the market yet, ongoing international research efforts are making exciting headway. It seems reasonable to predict that hybrid technology combining semiconductor chips and biological molecules will move from the realm of science fiction to commercial application fairly soon. Liquid-crystal-display technology offers a prime example of a hybrid system that has achieved commercial success. Most laptop computers today depend on liquid-crystal displays, which combine semiconductor devices and organic molecules to control the intensity of the image on screen. Several biological molecules are under consideration for use in computer hardware, but the bacterial protein bacteriorhodopsin has generated the most interest. During the past 10 years, my laboratory and others in North America, Europe and Japan have built prototype parallel-processing devices, three-dimensional data storage hardware and neural networks based on this protein. Origins in the Salt Marsh Interest in bacteriorhodopsin dates back to the early 1970s, when Walther Stoeckenius of the University of California at San Francisco and Dieter Oesterhelt, now at the Max Planck Institute for Biochemistry in Martinsried, discovered that the protein exhibited unusual properties when it was exposed to light [see "The Purple Membrane of Salt-Loving Bacteria," by Walther Stoeckenius; SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, June 1976]. Found in the membrane of Halobacterium salinarium, bacteriorhodopsin enables the bacterium to grow when the concentration of oxygen is insufficient to otherwise sustain the organism. When struck by light, the protein changes its structure and transports a proton across the membrane, thereby supplying energy to maintain cell metabolism. Soviet scientists were the first to recognize and develop the potential of bacteriorhodopsin for computing. Soon after it was discovered, the late Yuri A. Ovchinnikov of the Shemyakin Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry in Moscow assembled a team of scientists from five Soviet institutions to work on biomolecular electronics as part of what came to be called Project Rhodopsin. Ovchinnikov obtained a good deal of funding for such research because he had the ear of Soviet military leaders and was able to convince them that by exploring bioelectronics, Soviet science could leapfrog the West in computer technology. Many aspects of this ambitious project are still considered military secrets and may never be revealed. We do know that the Soviet military made microfiche films, called Biochrome, out of bacteriorhodopsin. Informal reports from former Soviet scientists now in the U.S. indicate that researchers there also made optical data processors using protein technology. The details of their most impressive accomplishment, a processor for military radar, remain obscure. I became interested in bacteriorhodopsin in the 1970s, while I was studying the biochemical basis of vision at the University of California at Riverside. My work had initially focused on a related protein, rhodopsin, present in the retina of mammals. Both rhodopsin and bacteriorhodopsin are complex proteins that include a light-absorbing component known as a chromophore. The chromophore absorbs energy from light, triggering a complex series of internal motions that result in dramatic changes in the structure of the larger protein. These changes alter the protein's optical and electrical characteristics. For example, when rhodopsin absorbs light in the human eye, the change in structure releases energy that serves as an electrical signal able to convey visual information to the brain. Computer Applications At first I was concerned purely with understanding how such light-activated changes to rhodopsin occurred. During the late 1970s, however, I became interested in bacteriorhodopsin as well. I had also decided to apply my knowledge of its properties to the design of computer memories and processors based on the protein. Albert F. Lawrence, then at Hughes Aircraft Company, played an important role in convincing me that bioelectronics had potential. He joined my lab for one year to explore the use of biological materials in optical memories. We focused on bacteriorhodopsin instead of rhodopsin because of the former's greater stability and better optical properties. Also, it can be prepared in large quantities. The components of computers must be able to withstand changes in their environment without breaking apart. Bacteriorhodopsin naturally functions in salt marshes where temperatures can exceed 150 degrees Fahrenheit and where the molecule is often exposed to intense light. The applications under study for computer processors and the memories on which they operate exploit what is called the photocycle--the series of structural changes bacteriorhodopsin undergoes in response to light. (In its resting state the molecule is known as bR, and each intermediate in the series is identified by a letter of the alphabet.) The various intermediates can be used to represent bits of data. Moreover, the intermediates absorb light in different regions of the spectrum. As a consequence, we can read the data by shining laser beams on the molecules and noting the wavelengths that do not pass through to the detector. Because we can alter the structure of bacteriorhodopsin with one laser and then, with another laser, determine which intermediates have formed, we have the needed basis for writing to and then reading from memory. Most devices under study make use of the resting state and one intermediate of bacteriorhodopsin. One state is designated as 0 and the other as 1, and switching between the states is controlled by a laser beam. Many early memory devices based on bacteriorhodopsin could operate only at the extremely cold temperature of liquid nitrogen, at which the light-induced switching between the initial bR structure and an intermediate known as the K state could be controlled. These devices were very fast compared with semiconductor switches (the bR to K conversion takes place in a few trillionths of a second, compared with the few billionths of a second that common semiconductor devices require). But the need for such low temperatures precluded general application. Today most bacteriorhodopsin-based devices function at or near room temperature, a condition under which another intermediate, M, is stable. Although most bacteriorhodopsin-based memory devices incorporate the bR-to-M switch, other structures may actually prove more useful in protein-based computer systems. Parallel Processing Certain of the intermediates produced after bacteriorhodopsin is initially exposed to light will change to unusual structures when they absorb energy from a second laser beam, in a process known as a sequential one-photon architecture. For example, such a branching reaction occurs from the O intermediate to form P and Q. These structures are generated by two consecutive pulses of laser light--first green light, then red. Although P is fairly short-lived, it relaxes into a form known as Q, which is stable for extended periods, even up to several years. Because of its extended stability, the Q state has great significance in the search for long-term, high-density memory. The intermediates P and Q, formed in the sequential one-photon process, are particularly useful for parallel processing. For writing data in parallel, our approach incorporates another innovation: three-dimensional data storage. A cube of bacteriorhodopsin is surrounded by two arrays of laser beams placed 90 degrees from each other. One array of lasers, all set to green and called paging beams, activates the photocycle of the protein in any selected square plane, or page, within the cube. After a few milliseconds, when the number of O intermediates reaches near maximum, the other laser array--this time of red beams--is fired. This second array is programmed to illuminate only the region of the activated square where data bits are to be written, switching the molecules there to the P structure. The P intermediate then relaxes its structure to form the highly stable Q state. If we assign the bR structure to binary state 0 and both P and Q to binary state 1, the process is analogous to the binary switching that takes place in semiconductor or magnetic memory. Because the laser array can activate molecules in various places throughout the chosen illuminated page, multiple data locations, known as addresses, can be written to simultaneously--in other words, in parallel. Our system for reading stored memory--whether during processing or during the extraction of a result--relies on the selective absorption of red light by the O intermediate. To read multiple bits of data in parallel, we start just as we do in the writing process. First, the green paging beam fires at the square of protein to be read, starting the normal photocycle of the molecules in the bR state. After two milliseconds, the entire laser array is turned on at a very low intensity of red light. The molecules that are in the binary 1 state (P or Q intermediates) do not absorb these red beams or change their state. But the molecules that started out in the original binary 0 state (bR) do absorb the beams (but do not change their structure), because they have cycled to the red-absorbing O intermediate. A detector images the light passing through the cube of memory and records the location of O and of P or Q structures--or in terms of binary code, the detector reads 0's and 1's. The process is complete in approximately 10 milliseconds, a rate of 10 megabytes per second for each page of memory. Three-Dimensional Memories In addition to facilitating parallel processing, three-dimensional cubes of bacteriorhodopsin provide much more memory space than do two-dimensional optical memories. For example, a relatively recent, nonbiological memory system incorporates a thin film of magnetic material that is written on by a laser beam and erased by a magnetic field. These memories are two-dimensional because data are stored on the surface of the disk. Such two-dimensional memories have a storage capacity that is limited to about 100 million bits per square centimeter. In contrast, three-dimensional optical memories can theoretically approach storage densities of one trillion bits per cubic centimeter. In practice, optical and hardware limitations lower possible densities for volumetric memories. Nevertheless, most investigators believe a 300-fold improvement in storage capacity over two-dimensional devices should be possible. Indeed, I anticipate that the major near-term impact of bioelectronics on computer hardware will be in the area of volumetric memory. Speed is also an important benefit of volumetric memories. The combination of three-dimensional storage with the use of parallel architectures enhances the speed of such memories, just as parallel processing in the human brain overcomes relatively slow neural processes and allows the brain to be a thinking machine with fast reflexes and rapid decision-making capability. The entire writing process described above takes place in about 10 milliseconds. If we illuminate a square measuring 1,024 bits by 1,024 bits within a larger cube of protein, we can write 1,048,576 bits of data, or about 105 kilobytes, into memory in a 10-millisecond cycle. These values represent an overall write speed of 10 million characters per second, comparable to slow semiconductor memory. Yet each memory device can access more than one data cube, and the speed of the memory is proportional to the number of cubes operating in parallel. Thus, an eight-cube memory would operate much faster, at 80 million characters per second. Cubes of memory must be extremely uniform in their composition to ensure accurate reading and writing, because too many or too few molecules in one region will distort information stored there. Manufacturing the cubes in low gravity can produce the needed homogeneity for memory devices. Two space shuttle flights investigating this possibility were sponsored by the W. M. Keck Center for Molecular Electronics at Syracuse University in collaboration with BioServe Space Technologies, the U.S. Air Force Rome Laboratory and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The results have been encouraging, and more flights are planned. Several other types of computer systems based on bacteriorhodopsin are being investigated. For example, biological molecules seem to hold promise as components of the associative memories needed for neural networks and, eventually, for artificial intelligence. Neural Networks Associative memories operate rather differently from the memories that dominate current computer architectures. This type of architecture takes a set of data, often in the form of an image, and scans the entire memory bank until it finds a data set that matches it. In some cases, the computer will find the closest match if it cannot find a perfect match, in a sense taking an educated guess at an answer. Because the human brain operates in a neural, associative mode, many computer scientists believe large-capacity associative memories will be required if we are to achieve artificial intelligence. My laboratory has developed an associative-memory device that relies on the holographic properties of thin films of bacteriorhodopsin. Holograms allow multiple images to be stored in the same segment of memory, permitting large data sets to be analyzed simultaneously. The memory system is based on the classic design of Eung G. Paek and Demetri Psaltis of the California Institute of Technology [see "Optical Neural Computers," by Yaser S. Abu-Mostafa and Demetri Psaltis; SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, March 1987]. We find that bacteriorhodopsin offers distinct advantages over the photorefractive crystals used to fabricate these memories. Because the protein is more sensitive to light than are inorganic crystals, lower light levels can be employed. In consequence, less energy is needed for writing to and reading from memory, and the speed of these processes improves. Further, bacteriorhodopsin can be written to and read from many more times than can crystals, which suffer from fatigue after repeated read-write cycles. As studies of natural bacteriorhodopsin continue, many laboratories are also exploring the value of modified forms of the protein in computer devices. Specifically, they are studying genetically engineered versions of the protein, in which one amino acid replaces another in order to enhance the properties needed for particular applications. For example, the lifetime of the M state in the photocycle can be lengthened by removal of an internal amino acid from the protein, as shown by Norbert Hampp and Christoph Brauchle of the University of Munich, in collaboration with Oesterhelt. Of course, biomolecular computers represent the ultimate goal. As I mentioned earlier, however, most scientists believe the first step in the development of protein-based computers will be the generation of hybrid systems that combine the best features of semiconductor and molecular architectures. In particular, hybrid technology, composed in part of high-density, protein-based memory, may help solve the lingering problem of memory capacity. During the past decade, the speed of computer processors increased almost 1,000 times, whereas external data storage capacities increased by only a factor of 50. Also, the transfer of data within the computer remains the principal bottleneck that limits performance. Parallel processing and light-based interconnections, both made faster with hybrid computers that exploit the efficient switching of biological molecules, allow for the storage, transfer and manipulation of massive amounts of data. To explore the possible value of hybrid computers, my laboratory is currently designing one that contains four types of memory units or processors, known as cards. The card with the central processing unit of this computer will consist of traditional semiconductor technology. Two cards will contain protein-based volumetric memory with a total capacity of roughly 40 gigabytes. One of these cards will be a fast, permanent, random-access memory using no moving parts; the other will offer less expensive, removable, long-term data storage. The fourth card will contain an associative memory based on films of bacteriorhodopsin. The Future of Computers The hybrid computer we envision would be highly flexible. By taking advantage of particular combinations of the memory cards described above, the computer should be able to handle large pools of data, carry out complex scientific simulations or serve as a unique platform for investigations of artificial intelligence. With close to a terabyte (10[sup 12] bytes) of memory in cubes of bacteriorhodopsin, this machine would handle large databases with alacrity. Associative memory processing coupled with volumetric memory would make database searches many orders of magnitude faster than is currently possible. Because this hybrid computer can be designed to function as a neural associative computer capable of learning and of analyzing data and images in much the same way as the human brain, the likely importance of hybrid computers to studies in artificial intelligence cannot be underestimated. Although my group and others have had remarkable success developing volumetric memories and associative processors, more work is needed before a fully operational hybrid computer can be built. Along the way toward developing a powerful yet reasonably priced design, other competing architectures may replace many of the hardware components we have described. Nevertheless, we are confident that hybrid computers of some type will be available within the next eight years. We further expect that during the next two decades, they will evolve into the dominant architectures for certain types of computing, such as for scientific calculations and multimedia applications. Personal computer users will benefit by having large and inexpensive memory boards that have many gigabytes of data storage and removable memory components that contain a few gigabytes of data storage in a small cube. Imagine the advantage of carrying in your pocket a small cube storing the equivalent of a comprehensive encyclopedia and all the words you have written in the past 10 years. But the most dramatic application may well be found in yet another realm. With terabytes of data storage, neural associative capabilities and a high capacity for parallel processing, hybrid computers will, for the first time, incorporate the three crucial hardware requirements for artificial intelligence. We are indeed at the threshold of an exciting new era in computing. ROBERT R. BIRGE is professor of chemistry, director of the W. M. Keck Center for Molecular Electronics and research director of the New York State Center for Advanced Technology in Computer Applications and Software Engineering at Syracuse University. In addition to working on the development of protein-based electronic devices and hybrid computers, he investigates laser spectroscopy and quantum theory of proteins. He received his B.S. in chemistry from Yale University in 1968, his Ph.D. in chemical physics from Wesleyan University in 1972 and was a National Institutes of Health postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University from 1973 to 1975. FURTHER READING THREE-DIMENSIONAL OPTICAL STORAGE MEMORY. Dimitri A. Parthenopoulos and Peter M. Rentzepis in "Science," Vol. 245, pages 843-845; August 25, 1989. BACTERIORHODOPSIN: A BIOLOGICAL MATERIAL FOR INFORMATION PROCESSING. Dieter Oesterhelt, Christoph Brauchle and Norbert Hampp in "Quarterly Reviews of Biophysics," Vol. 24, No. 4, pages 425-478; November 1991. PROTEIN-BASED OPTICAL COMPUTING AND MEMORIES. Robert R. Birge in "Computer," Vol. 25, No. 11, pages 56-67; November 1992. PROTEIN-BASED THREE-DIMENSIONAL MEMORY. Robert R. Birge in "American Scientist," Vol. 82, No. 4, pages 348-355; July-August 1994. SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN March 1995 Volume 272 Number 3 Pages 90-95 Scientific American (ISSN 0036-8733), published monthly by Scientific American, Inc., 415 Madison Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10017-1111. Copyright 1995 by Scientific American, Inc. All rights reserved. Except for one-time personal use, no part of any issue may be reproduced by any mechanical, photographic or electronic process, or in the form of a phonographic recording, nor may it be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted or otherwise copied for public or private use without written permission of the publisher. For information regarding back issues, reprints or permissions, E-mail SCAinquiry@aol.com. Transmitted: 95-03-06 13:22:58 EST
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:09:38 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:30:46 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > >From: EdKomarek@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >By Ed Komarek > >6/9/97 > > > Dear List: <Brevity snip> > As for Corso's book, use a little logic, Ed, even though you're a complete > stranger to such matters. If Corso's book is really, actually true in every > regard, then the secret is finally out--"outed" by a true insider. Now, how > good could an orchestrated cover up be if the powers that be actually let > Corso's book get into print? Isn't this just the sort of stuff they're > charged to keep out of the public eye, regardless of the cost? > I am also curious if Corso submitted his manuscript to the NSC/DOD/Army for the customary pre publication security review , i.e. making sure the Col Corso did not disclose currently classified information. Might be interesting. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jun 97 09:08:30 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:18:23 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:34:52 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? >I do think Bob Dean is a credible witness and his military credentials have >held up under scrunity. Perhaps you could tell me why you consider him not >to be credible. Ed, you disappoint me greatly. Having sat through Bob Dean's evangalistic dog and pony show, I can say with absolute conviction that the man is a fraud. His showing of "secret NASA photos" was disgusting. The photos are NOT secret. Anyone can order them from NASA. And they do NOT show giant alien constructions in space, they show reflections of nixie tube displays in spacecraft windows. I nearly threw up! Bob Dean credible? Hah! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:17:41 -0400 Subject: Bentwaters: Project Pounce 12. June 1997 04.39.51 Message From: d005734c@dc.seflin.org,Internet Subject: Re: Special Report (Project Pounce; Col. Steve Wilson) To: Stig Agermose From: SKYWATCH Post Only <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Special Report by Col. Wilson On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint US/British NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing where we would be met by a Special Delta Force team. We were to contact the Base Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor, and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The Deputy Base Commander about the UFO sighting and landing there. We were to view the complete filming including the landing. Our investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in the grass unlike the aircraft itself. This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) produced at Warminster, England on or near the same date. We concluded that the Unidentified aircraft, Circular, Size 30 ft by 20 feet tall, made the patterns because of the unusual propulsion systems used. The film was immediately sent to a special office in the Pentagon designated OSIP (This changes constantly to avoid detection). We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the arrival of the craft.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:42:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:20:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' > From: ExposeUFOs@aol.com > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:26:48 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Another Roswell Cover Story > In the past few days I have been reading about the new Air Force > report on > Roswell which is supposed to be published soon. The latest Air Force > story > states that what crashed at Roswell was not a MOGUL weather balloon > that > crashed at Roswell but a top secreat "lifting body" supported by FUGO > balloons. In this report they say that there were two Japanese pilots > in the > lifting body. This is the lamest story I have heard yet. The Air Force > is > just getting desperate to explain away Roswell. They know that no one > believes in MOGUL anymore so they want to have an explanation for the > media > before the big Roswell Event this summer. I would like to make a comment on this idea that somehow the Air Force is attempting to "explain" Roswell. That is most certainly not what is going on. No "explanation" is necessary or required. For a long time the official stance was that the UFO stories surrounding Roswell were nonsense and a long standing policy of "no comment" pretty much put the matter to rest. The UFO community is so full of foolishness that "the Air Force" need do nothing but stand by and watch the myth makers devour one another. The best policy has always been, and always will be, "no comment." So what would drive "them" to, after 50 years, re-awaken this case, and others, by publishing fresh, unnecessary, and patently ludicrous "explanations?" Most certainly not to "explain" them away or make them go away. What would be the motivating factor in coming out with an explanation for the Soccoro incident, as a NASA test flight? Or the continuation of ever more fanciful Roswell stories? To put the matter to rest? To make the stories go away? Hardly. That is not the *effect* produced. We see such "explanations" and the rational mind recoils at such nonsense. These 'explanations' dramatically raise awarensess of the UFO situation by giving official recognition to these events, most long forgotten by the public and the media. The media is content to ignore long dead cases like Socorro, that is until the gummint feels obligated to trot out fresh explanations decades after the fact. The point is that these 'denials', and 'explanations', and official reports, INCREASE THE BELIEF in crashed UFOs and UFO landing cases. By giving official and extremely public recognition to these events and by trotting out patently ludicrious stories that even the most Pavlov like debunker can't take seriously. When the Air Force publically admits to lies, and than retracts those lies with new lies every few months, what we have here is a clear pattern of behaviour designed to *raise awareness and belief* in the phenomenon. Always examine what belief systems are getting modified when someone dabbles in myth making ,and how much awareness is raised or changed based on such mass psychological manipulation. The immediate reaction of anyone to the proposed fresh Air Force explanation is "that's ludicrous." Do you not recognize that this is exactly the reaction *intended*! Doesn't common sense tell you that silence/no comment is much more effective? Does anyone think the Corso book is an *accident?* Or Santilli's chopped up little girl broadcast worldwide? Come on ... We may be sheep afterall, but the sheep ought to at least be a little cynical. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:08:07 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:38:10 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > THIS IS A UFO UPDATES POST ONLY! > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > > Thomas Deuley contacts me using a email address with his name > > in it to try to undermine Bob Dean and his activities toward hearings in > > Congress. I talk to Steven Greer and Greer tells me that when he Greer > > started getting involved pushing for hearings, Deuley told him that the > > military witnesses that came forward were not to be believed not one. > Uh Ed, Could it be because Dean, despite being a charming and charismatic > man, simply is not credible? > What are the penalties for perjury to Congress? These witnesses need to be > squeaky clean. Stories aren't going to be enough. Someone MUST know exactly > what the witnesses are going to testify to and who else they might name in > their testimony and what those people would testify to if called. All the > bases must be covered Ed. If every Tom, Dick and Harry on the Internet can > pick these witnesses apart -- you can be sure that Congress will too. The > witnesses must have documentation and or corroboration. One discredited > witness will do in the entire thing. That's the way I see it. Rebecca has a good point here. Before the IRAN/Contra hearings took place all witnesses were deposed under oath with both sides lawyers present, so both sides new exactly what was going to be said by the witnesses, and had time to prepare to examine/ask questions. If any UFO hearings do happen you can count on the fact that the skeptics, i.e. Phil Klass and others will be involved to the hilt with whomever the opposition happens to be. > And if the leader of this movement to bring about the hearings is a guy who > claims to be in contact with ETs, well -- he better have proof, cause he's > gonna be laughed all the way back to NC. Hearing beeping sounds in the > distance, while it sounds interesting, becomes not so interesting when the > beeping sound turns out to be an owl. Or maybe the guy who wrote that > article > was part of the UFO coverup as well. Who knows? That is such an easy thing > to > claim. Impossible to refute. > Oh and all that video evidence, that better be real evidence, no airplanes, > no balloons, no models suspended from wires. Or else you have problems. > True enough. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:51:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:04:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' > Date: 11 Jun 97 11:52:05 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' > >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:53:29 -0400 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' > Steve, > Thurmond's staff seems to want us to think that Thurmond is just some > senile old coot without the sense to insist on seeing the book before > writing a foreward. I don't buy it. In all of my experience in the > publishing business, I've never known of a case in which someone wrote > a forward to a book without reading the book, at least in rough form. I really had a laugh when Greg Sandow and others implied that Strom Thurmond is senile. Its curious that he would like to imply that is the solution Thurmond having written the Foreword to Corso's book. However, its funny that good ole supposedly senile Strom (as some would have us believe) was on television, CSPAN if I recall correctly a week or so ago - at a press conference celebrating his having become the oldest Senator, and wouldn't you just know it there he was in front of the cameras; standing, answering questions spontaneously, appropriately, intelligently. Age and senility are not synonymous. Well I guess the people trying to discredit Corso will have to come up with a different pile of ... hypothesis. At least one that is credible, one that doesn't allow the readers of a character assasination judge for themselves on televsion in a public forum, the person being discredited. > There is no way Corso's book could exist in any form without the mention > of UFOs. So if their claim is true, and Thurmond was conned into writing > this by being shown a totally different book, I'd think Thurmond would be > in the courts right now getting a "cease and desist" order to halt > distribution of the book. Is it credible that one of the savvyiest politicians in the Senate was conned into writing the foreword, to ask that question is to answer it. I certainly think NOT. > The only thing that makes sense to me is that Thurmond's staff didn't > realize he had done this, and when they saw it they flipped and told the > old man that he was nuts to attach himself to this. So now the distancing. > But, Thurmond really has nothing to lose. He already said this is his last > term. So why not go out with a bang by contributing to the death of > the coverup? Maybe Dennis Stacy or Ed Komareck could ask Senator Thurmond a direct question at his next public news conference and put this issue to rest. > This will be a VERY interesting story to follow. I plan to finish reading > Corso's book tonight. I noticed that the appendix is a very long batch of > documents relating to a late 50s proposal for a permanent manned base on > the moon. The book is not particularly easy to use as reference material > because it has no index. There is no excuse for that in these days of > programs which automatically create an index. Guess the publisher was > just too cheap. > Bob This should be an interesting story, very interesting. Gary Alevy P.S. Please see my post regarding indexing of Ruppelt's book for reference use. If anyone can suggest a good indexing program please let me know.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:03:58 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:34:48 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 Hi, everybody. Readers of the last JUST CAUSE saw, as mentioned on this List, my letter re Carl Sagan and Barry Greenwood's reponse thereto. Barry is a good guy whose many fine contributions to UFO study we all have benefited from.. That said, I think he is seriously wrong about this particular issue. What follows is a letter I wrote him on April 24, my reply to his reply: Dear Barry, Unfortunately your response to my letter re Sagan in the new JUST CAUSE only underscores my point: Sagan was an uninformed critic of the UFO phenomenon, and your starry-eyed defense of him remains inexplicable -- unless, as Mike Swords suggests in the current IUR, ufology does indeed harbor a death wish. One would not think it necessary to state that the debate about the existence of UFOs ought to focus on the best, not the worst, evidence. Nor, one would think, should one have to defend the proposition that critics should be conversant in ufology's most intellectually serious literature. Apparently you disagree. To you, it seems, all that matters is that Sagan was an authority figure who three decades ago had some brief experience with ufology and that, moreover, ufologists are bad people ("believers") who deserve whatever they get. You then throw up a smoke screen about my own early writings, the relevance of which escapes me. I suppose I could point out that NO ONE has been more publicly critical of my naive early views than I. Would that Sagan had that sort of capacity for self-examination. In any event, THE DEMON-HAUNTED WORLD was Sagan's last, not his first, book, his final statement on a whole lot of things he didn't like, which he alleged were based on mere faith. Richard Lewontin's essay, which it is clear you have not read, points out that many things Sagan claims as self-evidently true are themselves empirically unfounded or at least open to dispute. For all that he portrayed himself as speaking from the authority of science, Sagan himself was a kind of true believer, Lewontin argues. His point: before you debunk, purge yourself of your own favorite myths. Lewontin also wrote that Sagan's version of what science is (which you embrace uncritically) is essentially on the comic-book level. Lewontin's UFO views are irrelevant to the discussion. I have no idea what they are, and I can't imagine their being of much interest to anyone unless he is read in the best evidence, the best research, and the best writing. After all, that's the standard for any other subject. Or do you believe, if I may paraphrase Orwell, that ignorance IS strength, at least so long as the oaf in question is bashing UFOs? As for the "flaws and foibles of ufology" I have written about them extensively, more, I'd wager, than just about anybody in this field. So I don't need any lectures from you on the subject. Still, for all its flaws, ufology has done a far better job of critiqueing itself than its critics have, as Sagan sadly demonstrates. The existence of bad ufology, of which there is a great deal, is no more relevant to ufology's legitimacy than is the existence of bad science, of which there is a great deal, to science's legitimacy. The issue, let me repeat, is the best evidence, and if I have to tell you what that is or where to find it, I can only wonder what you are doing in this field. Or are you, as I suspect, merely being disingenuous in the service of what you sense is a weak argument? In the end, I can only shake my head and wonder. Hero worship is one thing. Your blind, unquestioning allegiance to Sagan is quite another. Believe it or not, Barry, it's not just ufologists who are answerable to the demands of rational discourse. Sadly, Jerry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:44:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:22:26 -0400 Subject: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? Upon reading John's three-part "Roswell: Historical Facts" post, I was first inclined to do a "reply" to one or all three posts in order to discuss some of the FACTS on a one by one basis. However, after reading as much as I could possibly bear, it dawned on me that we're beginning to lose sight of the large area of greenery, known as the FOREST, because we simply can't see beyond some of the trees. A lot of the elements of argument about Roswell go into typical "He said, She said and They said" scenarios. The problem with this is that stories change, people die and people forget exact events over the course of time. Additionally, add to this the concept of "Public Opinion" and all of a sudden you can have someone who was saying it was a joke, now saying that it in fact was REAL and that they had been "ordered" to say it was a joke. One of the reasons governments declare certain materials and issues to not be discussed for 50 or 75 years is that the people and documents can die out and their "stories" can no longer be verified. The witnesses become unreliable either due to death or failing memory and the surviving relatives fall into a category of "Hearsay" evidence. Now, with ALL of this being said, how about we examine the irrefutable evidence of Roswell. FACT: In or around July 1 through 8, 1947 SOMETHING crashed near, or on Mac Brazel's ranch and was subsequently recovered by men and officers of the 509th Air Bombardment group located at Roswell U.S.A.A.F. Base. FACT: A story was written and released that reportedly was under the authority of the intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment Group at RAAF that stated "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region." on July 8, 1947. FACT: A story and press interview was conducted under Col. Blanchard's authority that REFUTED the "Flying Saucer" story and that showed Maj. Jesse Marcel posing with the remains of a Weather Balloon which was supposedly recovered at the controversial "crash site". SINCE that time, the Air Force has changed the OFFICIAL story so that the "remains" were obviously FAKED from the beginning! FACT: People in and around Roswell, New Mexico have stated that the Air Force is lying and that there is a "cover-up" going on about what really occurred at the crash site in 1947. FACT: People in and around Roswell, New Mexico have been maintaining the previous fact for almost 50 years as of this writing. FIVE Facts. Five irrefutable facts. Now, let's deal with them as to the question of WHY? 1. WHY did something crash in the desert of New Mexico in July of 1947? SOME outside influence has to cause something to crash! A body that is in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by some outside force. 2. WHY did the "intelligence office" of RAAF base authorize the release of a story about capturing a flying saucer? Additionally, WHY release a story that they had no concrete proof as being real? Based upon the fact that the 509th bombardment group was the ONLY atomic air base in the world it is highly doubtful that they were looking for "Press Attention". It is well known that intelligence officers have very little sense of humour, therefore releasing the story as a joke can easily be ruled out. Press officers and Intelligence officers NEVER need to verify anything before they release information, they always go on "GUT FEEL" because they LIKE being shown up as being WRONG about something. 3. WHY conduct a press interview and present physical evidence of a mistake? And with the ever-changing "official" line of what really crashed, why conduct this interview with FAKED evidence? The Air Force really enjoys showing the world when they screw up, therefore, call everyone in and bring the widest possible attention to their mistake. I think NOT! If the evidence shown was FAKE, then WHERE is the REAL evidence and why not show us that NOW? 4. WHY did all those people decide to risk ridicule and potential government and air force intervention in their lives by saying that the whole thing was a cover-up and that the Air Force was lying? For fame and monetary gain? All those people are now well known by everyone in the world and they are all living as multi-millionaires from their stories! Anyone out there familiar with the term NFL? As in NOT F---ing LIKELY! 5. WHY have those people and their family members kept this story alive for almost 50 years? Because they've got nothing to better to do with their time and they love being hounded to death by UFO researchers, questioned endlessly and having people call them liars whenever they tell their story. I firmly understand the need to get as many DETAILS confirmed as much as the next person, however, let's NOT lose sight of the forest. It's time to let the "Official" arms of the incident at Roswell try to answer the HARD questions and convince us of the reasons WHY these questions are there. Dave (Furry) Furlotte (Just my two cents again, from a voice in the wilderness....)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Close Encounters in Roswell From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:39:56 -0400 Subject: Close Encounters in Roswell We've put together a package of stories about the Roswell Incident (no Fugo balloons, though!) ... and we hope to have more UFO-related material as the 50th anniversary nears. Please tune us in at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/78029.asp Many thanks, Alan Boyle Writer/Editor, MSNBC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 UK UFO television programmes - UK.UFO.NW From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:53:52 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:41:22 -0400 Subject: UK UFO television programmes - UK.UFO.NW UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK This short mail is for United Kingdom members only. However rest of world if you know of any future UFO related television programmes which you would like other members in your part of the world to know about, mail us the details. Channel Five: Sunday 15th June 1997 10.00 UFO Episode one of two Alien Abduction: You may think they've come straight from the X Files, but there's no shortage of seemingly sane folk who reckon they really have been abducted by aliens. Can it really be true? Suspend your scepticism awhile and listen to their stories. ---- Don't miss next week's TVTimes The aliens are coming! Into the Unknown (ITV, all week) do not adjust your set! Aliens are taking over your screens as ITV boldly goes sci-fi crazy to mark the 50th anniversary of the first claimed UFO sightings. A week of special show's and movies include Sigourney Weaver in Alien 3 (Monday) and Jonathan Ross's light-hearted look at space invaders, The Aliens Are Coming (Saturday). Spooky! The week of UFO TV programmes commence Saturday 21st June 1997 -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Corso Book Available for Immediate Shipment From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:30:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:42:45 -0400 Subject: Corso Book Available for Immediate Shipment We have 'em! Just arrived at the Research Center: 15 copies of the Phillip Corso book, "The Day After Roswell." It is available to you now for $24.00 plus $4 priority mail postage. Order today with a credit card and you'll have it in about 3 business days. Product is sold "as is" without warrantee as to accuracy. You've heard the hype on the net. Could be a groundbreaker -- or not worth the paper it is printed on. The books are in the Rachel office, and I'm in Las Vegas, so I haven't had a chance to review it yet. Get it now, while the glow is still on the pumpkin. You can order it by calling my Lovely Assistant in Rachel at 702-729-2648. (8-6 weekdays, 9-7 weekends, Pacific Time). Visa/MC accepted. It will go out by priority mail the next business day. ($1 higher for postage to Canada. Intl. orders also accepted.) There will be others on the way when the 15 copies run out, but order now to assure immediate shipment. Glenn Campbell Area 51 Research Center +---------------------------------------------------------+ | GLENN CAMPBELL - Government Disinformation Agent | | "Who does he really work for?" | | | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +---------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Re: Reply to Dennis Stacy From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:59:35 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:47:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Reply to Dennis Stacy Hi David; >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:09:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: dstacy@texas.net >cc: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Reply to Dennis Stacy. Was: One small question for mankind >Dennis Stacy recently e-mailed me: >>My interesting Roswell point or question of the day, then is this. >>In an interview by Jamie Shandera published in the January 1991 >>issue of the MUFON UFO Journal, General Dubose, Ramey's chief of >>staff, denies repeatedly that there was any switch of material in >>Ramey's office. >But in every other interview with Dubose, including his signed >affidavit for FUFOR, dated 9/16/91, Dubose said that Ramey >substituted a weather balloon for the real debris. In his signed >affidavit, Dubose stated, "The material shown in the photographs >taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The >weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to >divert the attention of the press." Is there any more to this? In the above quote DuBose isn't saying the material was switched at all. He's saying the material was a weather balloon and the weather balloon explanation was the cover story for the material (Mogul?). Where's DuBose's affidavit saying "We swapped the "saucer" debris with the weather balloon"? (Btw, "Major General" Ramey was Brigadier General Ramey at the time of the Roswell drama.) >In "UFO Crash at Roswell" Dubose was quoted as saying that the >weather balloon ".... was a cover story. The whole balloon part of >it. That part of it was a story that we were told to give to the >public and news and that was it." (This was from a March, 1990 interview.) I think when Dubose said "the In a videotaped August, 1990, interview DuBose said: "It was a cover story. The balloon part of it ... is the story that's to be given to the press, and that is it and anything else, forget it. It seems that somewhere between the first and second interview, the "whole" disappeared, not only from the interview but from R/S#2. In "Truth," p. 166: He (DuBose) said repeatedly, on both audio and videotape, "Actually, it was a cover story, the balloon part of it... I wonder where the "whole" went? Perhaps it was sold to the the 'Life Savers' company so they could make that candy with the (w)hole in the middle? <g> This "confusion" shown by DuBose was raised, perhaps not surprisingly, in the January 1993 issue of Phil Klass's _SUN_: >FROM _SUN_ - Jan 1993. Kevin Randle Complaint: Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt took issue with my review of their book "UFO Crash at Roswell" [which is any author's inalienable right], published in the Fall 1991 issue of _Skeptical Inquirer_ {SI] in a letter to the editor which occupied only one-third page of the Summer 1992 issue of _SI_. In my rebuttal to their criticism, which occupied only one-third page, I noted that "two of their _key_ 'first-hand witnesses' have subsequently recanted and significantly changed their stories." When Randle later asked me to identify the two persons I was referring to, I cited Col. Thomas DuBose, who was chief of staff to Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey, 8th Air Force commander at Ft. Worth, when the "crash debris" was brought there from Roswell; and Bond Johnson, a reporter for the _Ft.Worth Star Telegram_, who came to Ramey's office to see and photograph the "crash debris" and who wrote a story on what occurred there. Randle's letter of Aug. 3 admitted that "Bond Johnson might have changed his testimony now that he has been coached by [William] Moore and [Jaime] Shandera." Randle also conceded that statements attributed to DuBose in an article by Shandera, published in the Jan. 1991 issue of the _MUFON UFO Journal_, flatly contradicted things that DuBose (then nearly 90 years old) earlier told Randle and Schmitt. _Don Ecker_, Research Director for _UFO_ magazine, told me that DuBose had also told him contradictory stories during two interviews in a single day. Randle's Aug. 4 letter complained that my "statements in the _Skeptical Inquirer_ were highly misleading, and in fact inaccurate, but I don't suppose you'll...correct this. I might add that characterizing either DuBose or Johnson as 'key witnesses' is inaccurate as well...I'll look forward to your statement correcting these errors. I will not be surprised when it does not arrive." In my Aug. 8 letter, I responded to Randle's complaints and said I would submit a "correction-addendum" saying that R/S did not consider DuBose or Johnson to be "key witnesses." But I asked that they provide the names of five or more persons "whom you _do consider to be 'key witnesses._" I asked Randle/Schmitt to "respond promptly because _SI_ has a 4-6 month lead time. On Nov. 19, I wrote to Randle to remind him that more than three weeks had elapsed since I made this request but that he had failed to respond. On Nov. 28, Randle finally replied: "I see no need in informing you of whom we consider key and whom we consider important and whom we consider interesting." So there! >I think when Dubose said "the whole balloon part of it," he was >making it pretty clear that Ramey wasn't simply calling Mogul balloon >material by another name. But just saying "the balloon part of it" allows for the possibility that he was: Tell the press "It's just a weather balloon" and nothing more. >Dubose's affidavit further describes the other flight from Roswell >which arrived in a "sealed container," which he did take personal >charge of, and handed off to the base commander, Col. Clark to >pesonally transport to Washington. [...] >Now please note that in this earlier flight the debris samples >were in a "sealed container." This "sealed container" seems to have had shape-shifting properties. >Now let's get to the Shandera interviews. Dubose said he was >handed a "canvas mail pouch." This was the stuff which he says he >took to Ramey's office and which he says contained the balloon >debris. In R/S#2 (p. 52), DuBose describes the "container" as a sealed bag that weighed "fifteen to twenty pounds. It was sealed ... lead seal around the top ...the only way to get into it was to cut it." I don't know the dimensions of a "canvas mail pouch" but in this version of events the canvas pouch was a plastic bag and it seemed rather large. Another mystery is how R/S managed to conclude the following: That (the plastic bag) was the only package. He (DuBose) made it clear that the debris in the bag was different from the debris that would be displayed in Ramey's office two days later. If the container was sealed, how did DuBose know that it didn't contain the same type of material that was later displayed in Ramey's office? X-ray vision? >Now look at the Fort Worth photos. First of all there is brown >paper on the floor, no "canvas mail pouch." Or any plastic bag. >[In fact, the Air Force used Porter's story and claimed this showed >this must be the same debris flown in by Marcel (though obviously it >proves nothing).] Porter described the material as being wrapped in brown paper and the debris on the floor of Ramey's office is shown resting on brown paper. He also described one of the packages as being a very lightweight triangle about 2-and-a-half feet long. This matches the dimensions of the smaller triangle in the ML-307 radar target assembly. >Now look at the sticks on the ground. How could these >fit into a canvas mail pouch? Or a plastic bag weighing (?) or containing fifteen to twenty pounds of material? We can't say since we have no idea of the dimensions of this bag/pouch. >One of these sticks is about four feet long. Where did it come from? The USAF Mogul report described the ML-307 radar target as being made of lightweight triangular panels,"the largest being four feet by two feet ten inches. The smallest triangle section measures two feet by two feet ten inches." >You don't suppose it might have come from substituted debris? Provided there was substituted debris. Even if the debris had come from Mogul, it was only a small part of the material recovered. >For whatever reason, when he gave the Shandera interviews Dubose >seems to have confused the two separate flights he described >previously. The first flight on July 6 had debris in a sealed >container, handed off to Clark and tied to his wrist. A 20 pound plastic sack tied to his wrist? >This obviously couldn't have contained the sticks shown in the Fort >Worth photo. We can't say that with any certainty if we don't know the dimensions of the sack/pouch. >The second flight was Marcel going to Fort Worth. According to >Porter the debris samples were wrapped in brown paper. One package >was large, but probably not large enough to contain the four foot >stick shown in the photos. I think you're right. Porter stated: We flew these pieces. [Some officers in the crew] told us it was parts of a flying saucer. The packages were in wrapping paper, one triangle-shaped about two and a half feet across the bottom, the rest in smaller, shoebox-sized packages. [They were in] brown paper with tape. It was just like I picked up an empty package, very light. The loaded triangle-shaped package and three shoebox-sized packages would have fit into the trunk of a car. >Porter mentioned no smell. But the material was wrapped, and the inside of a bomber isn't exactly devoid of other olfactory "delights." >Neither did Marcel or anybody else who handled this debris before >Fort Worth. Did Marcel handle the rubber debris indoors, or was he mainly concerned with the shiny foil material? >But the first person to see this debris after Marcel and Dubose >(in other interviews) said it had been swapped immediately noted >the powerful odor of the rubber weather balloon in Ramey's office. There was a large pile of the stuff visible in at least one of the pictures, and it had just been unwrapped indoors. Fumes will concentrate in an enclosed environment. >This was the photographer, C. Bond Johnson. So where did this >smelly weather balloon suddenly come from? You don't suppose it >might also have come from substituted debris? _If_ it had been substituted. What makes this unlikley is Marcel's behaviour. Allegedly he was momentarily distracted by Ramey and when he checked the debris later he was, as our English friends might say, "gobsmacked" to discover that the saucer debris had been replaced by the remains of some old weather balloon. I suppose this could have happened, but then how do we explain weather officer Newton's comments: (USAF Mogul Report, from affidavit, Attach. 30, 1994): "...while I was examining the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien writings. There were figures on the sticks, lavender or pink in color, appeared to be weather faded markings, with no rhyme or reason (sic). He did not convince me that these were alien writings." Major Marcel knew the debris had been switched yet he still tried to convince everyone it was from a flying disk? In R/S#2 there's an attempt to resolve Marcel's seemingly irrational actions by implying that it was the FWAAF PIO, Major Cashon, who "worked" the press and spent his time pointing at the balloon while Major Marcel stood mute at the back of the room. The problem with this scenario is that Major Marcel _did_ speak to the media in Ft. Worth - he's quoted in newswire accounts - and his picture appeared in the newspapers. If Major Cashon was the one doing all the talking the reporters would've noticed, and Newton has confirmed that it was Major Marcel who tried to convince him he had a flying disk on his hands. (Btw, any idea where William Moore came up with the Major Marcel quote in _Roswell Incident_ where he said he was photographed with the "real" debris?) >Both Porter and Marcel said that there was more debris on board >the plane. Is that where the four-foot length of radar target came from, the other debris on board the plane? >Porter said he was told on the flight by Capt. William >Anderson that it was from a flying saucer. Just like it said in the press release. Imagine that. >Another witness, Lt. Robert Shirkey, also testified to seeing >the plane being loaded at Roswell with boxes of metallic debris >plus the packages of brown paper. (He also reported seeing an >"I-beam" with strange writing on it.) When he was interviewed by Stan Friedman he recalled: I got a very short glimpse, asked Blanchard to turn sideways so [I] could see too. Saw them carrying pieces of metal. They had one piece that was eighteen by twenty-four inches, brushed stainless steel in color. Do you know when he added the "I-Beam" to his recollections and if he described it as being metallic? >He was likewise told it was from a flying saucer. Again, just like in the press release and the radio reports. >In addition, Porter stated that the pilot of the plane was none >other than the Deputy Base Commander Lt. Col. Paynes Jennings. >Jennings signed an order that very day supposedly making him the >acting base commander while Blanchard allegedly left in the middle >of the day during the press feeding frenzy to go on leave. According to R/S#2, Blanchard was at Roswell and frustrated that he couldn't get an outside line due to all the incoming calls from the press. R/S#2 mentions Blanchard's predicament after referring to an AP wire story of a farmer in Oelwein, Iowa, who claimed to have found a "disk". This report went out on the AP wire at 6:04 PM Washington time. If the R/S#2 reconstruction is accurate, Colonel Blanchard was still on the base at 4:04 PM Roswell time. If Jennings had wanted to pilot a morning flight to Ft. Worth, no problem. >Porter also said that when they reached Fort Worth, Jennings >ordered them to stay with the plane until a guard could be posted. >Then they were allowed to go get something to eat. When they got >back, Porter was told that the rest of the debris on the plane had >been unloaded and placed on another plane bound for Wright Field. >At this point he was told it was nothing but a weather balloon, >but he didn't believe it. Just to get this straight: This was the flight that carried Marcel and the debris to Roswell? A short while later Newton identifies the material as being from a weather balloon. Jennings returns to the plane and informs the crew, "Sorry guys, just a weather balloon," but Porter doesn't believe him? Of course not. Porter could see through the brown paper - perhaps a trick Col. DuBose had taught him? - and he recognized flying saucer parts when he saw them. Even so, it would have been _very_ interesting to hear Mr Porter's 1947 answer to the question: "What exactly is a 'flying saucer'?" >Marcel and Dubose likewise said that the debris was transferred >to another plane for immediate shipment to Wright Field. It makes more sense if some of the debris had been sent on to Washington as soon as Marcel returned to RAAF that morning. Marcel and Blanchard called Ramey at 6-7.00 AM and we're supposed to believe the Generals at the Pentagon were prepared to sit patiently for 8-9 hours to see some of this "flying disk" debris? If it was that important the Generals would have wanted to see the debris "yesterday," if not sooner. By the time Marcel arrived at Ft. Worth with more of the the debris, Ramey might have already been informed that he had some sort of balloon on his hands. >This would have been at around the same time that Johnson was >photographing the balloon debris in Ramey's office. That would have been around 4:30 PM which was approximately an hour after the "disk" release had hit the newswire. >A surviving teletype message issued from the Pentagon in Ramey's >name at about this time also stated that the debris was on >its way to Wright Field. Can you pin it down to an exact time? Does the TWX have a time of transmission on it somewhere? (The most frustrating part of the Roswell story is the timing; _when_ did important events take place? An error of an hour or two in recollections after 40+ years shouldn't matter, but the Roswell "disk" hysteria only lasted for a few hours and the timing is crucial.) >Every time I look at Marcel's Roswell story, I see it being >corroborated by others and by existing documentary evidence. Can you elaborate on this "documentary" evidence? >The statements of the plane being full of debris in addition to the >debris samples were not those of Marcel alone. But we have no way of knowing whether the debris was "more of the same" or completely different. >Neither were his statements about the debris being from a flying >saucer, Everybody knew the debris was from a flying saucer. That was in the press release and had been broadcast on the radio well before the news hit the AP wire. There were "flying disks" being located all over the country as well. A prominent headline in the Roswell _Morning Dispatch_ announced the discovery of _two_ flying disks in Texas on the very same day the Roswell "disk" story was released. >Now why it came out so different in the Shandera interviews I >don't know. Maybe Dubose was starting to confuse and mix things >together at the end, while at other times being clear and >consistent with his earlier statements. That's certainly possible, but it was only a few months between the R/S and Shandera interviews, and DuBose was adamant the material had _not_ been switched. From what you've quoted of his FUFOR affidavit, I can't see where he claimed anything had been switched there either. >>*If* Marcel is right -- and the debris *was* switched -- then one >>still has to address a "coincidence" of almost cosmic >>proportions, namely, apart from differences of opinion as to the >>actual nature of the material recovered, why is there any >>superficial resemblance at all? >There's nothing "cosmic" about it. The Mogul balloon trains were >nothing but standard meteorological balloons and radar reflectors >strung together. But these perfectly ordinary components, recognizable to anyone with a weather service background, did bear an astonishing similarity to the spaceship from Planet X. - The "saucer" comprised some lightweight triangular sections; the ML-307 radar targets were made of lightweight triangular sections. - The "saucer" contained beams with pinkish-purple markings; the radar targets were strengthened with tape bearing pinkish-purple markings. - The "saucer" was made of metallic foil material; the radar targets were made of metallic foil. - The "disk" Brazel brought into Sheriff Wilcox's office was, according to Sheriff Wilcox, "about as large as a safe in the (sheriff's) office - about three and one-half feet by four feet" and it "seemed more or less like tinfoil." (From July 8 U.P. wire story) The size and description are remarkably close to that of the ML-307 radar target. - The "disk" debris contained "what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper" - Bessie Schreiber. The ML-307 target was made of foil attached to strengthened paper. - Brazel described the debris as containing "smoky gray" rubber when he first found it. The balloon material in the famous photographs is not "smoky gray" but much darker. Mogul used balloons made of unpigmented neoprene. Its exposure to sunlight began a gradual chemical deterioration which resulted in a change of colouring from gray to dark brown to black until the material eventually resembled charred paper. If the material Brazel found on June 14 was from the June 4th Mogul launch, the smoky gray colour would have been an indicator that the deterioration process was underway. When the balloon material, which Brazel had left "under a bush" on the Foster ranch was finally brought to Ft. Worth three weeks later, the depth of darkening was, according to Prof. Charles Moore, consistent with approximately one month's exposure to sunlight. If the debris was a simple substitution of "any old balloon" material for the "saucer" debris, why go to all this trouble? Only someone with a detailed knowledge of the way sunlight affected unpigmented sounding balloons could have engineered such a recondite connection. >They were available at all the military bases. The balloons or the targets? >The military put out the story that the weather balloon radar >reflectors probably accounted for all the flying saucers being >seen around the nation the past two weeks. All the flying saucers? The clippings I have don't support that claim. In fact, the most commonly suggested "culprit" for the saucer sightings in the first weeks after Arnold's sighting were military jets, not to mention "floaters" in the eye, "heat waves," etc. If someone wanted to wage a campaign to blame balloons for all "saucer" sightings, the "Not A Disk" press announcements of July 9 would have been an ideal opportunity to "float" the idea. It didn't happen. >From ROSWELL _MORNING DISPATCH_ - July 9, 1947 'Army Debunks Roswell Flying Disk As World Simmers With Excitement' Officers Say Disk Is Weather Balloon [...] General Ramey spoke over a local [Ft. Worth] radio station (WBAP) Tuesday night after the Eighth Air Force headquarters was flooded with queries concerning the object. In his broadcast, he said that anyone who found an object he believed to be a "flying disc" should contact the nearest army office or sheriff's office. Later, he said that the weather device could be mistaken for almost anything when seen in the air. "I don't say these devices are what people have called discs." He said, "There is no such gadget (as a disk) known to the army, at least this far down the line." If the purpose of the release and quick denial of the "disk" story was to make people think they were all "balloons" and not worth worrying about, why did Gen. Ramey tell people to report any findings of a "disc" to their local army base or sheriff's office? If the "saucers" were just weather balloons, why bother? As if this wasn't enough to kill the alleged "Discs are Weather Balloons" cover story, enter another General, Brig. General Donald Yates, chief of the Army Air Forces weather service. In another July 8 AP wire story we read: [...] Army weather experts in Washington, however, discounted any idea that such weather targets might be the basis for the scores of reports of "flying discs." Brig. Gen. Donald Yates, chief of the AAF weather service, said only a very few of them are used daily at points where some specific project requires accurate wind information from extreme altitudes. Without field reports, he would not hazard a guess on a precise number, he said. Army Describes Tests For ordinary purposes, General Yates told a reporter, the AAF uses balloon-borne radiosondes much on the order of those employed by the weather bureau, tracking them with radio direction finders. Those instruments consist of a milky white balloon five or six feet in diameter with the automatic radio transmitting apparatus suspended below in a package about cigar box size. During the war, General Yates said, the radar target method of wind checking was standard practice because of the high degree of accuracy needed. The weather bureau said it uses none of the radar target balloons at land stations. Some are used from coast guard vessels in the Atlantic, bureau officials said, but they normally blow eastward toward Europe. Many Freed Daily Between the army and the weather bureau, hundreds of weather balloons without the metallic target are released daily from points all over the country. Ivan R. Tannehill, weather bureau chief forecaster, pointed out, however, that such balloons have been in use for many years. He said, they were unlikely to have been mistaken "all over the country and all in one week" for mysterious objects speeding through the sky at supersonic speeds. Following the Roswell "Not A Disk" announcements we have two Army Air Force generals stating that: - There might well be some "gadgets" called "discs." - If anyone finds what they think is a "disc" they should contact their local sheriff or Army base. - That the radar target-type balloons were only used "where some specific project requires accurate wind information from extreme altitudes." - The weather bureau and the Army launched hundreds of balloons daily _without_ the metallic targets. - The Army Air Force did _not_ believe their weather target balloons "might be the basis for the scores of reports of "'flying discs.'" - And an astute observation from Mr Tannehill that pibals had been in use for many years without suddenly developing tendencies towards supersonic horizontal flight. >They said the radar reflectors were used at all the military >weather stations, each of which launched four weather balloons a day. There were several news stories post-Roswell which featured pictures of balloons with various radar targets. With the exception of the Alamogordo launch, we don't know the circumstances of the other reports. Were they all invitations to the media by the military, like Alamogordo, or the result of a few reporters displaying some initiative and contacting military weather bases in the hope of finding a story? >Irving Newton likewise was quoted in the 1947 press after identifying >the balloon wreckage in Ramey's office as saying that the balloon and >radar reflector could have come from any of 80 weather stations >around the country. This is one of those maddening statements because it isn't a quote, it's an attribution: Newton, who made the examination, said some 80 weather stations in the U.S. were using that type of balloon and that it could have come from any of them. Here he's referring to the balloon, not the target. Even so, it sounds as though the balloon is incredibly common until we read: He said he had sent up identical balloons during the invasion of Okinawa to determine ballistics information for heavy guns. If the balloons were being sent up daily from over 80 weather stations, why did Newton have to reach back two years to describe his experience with an _identical_ balloon, and then as part of the highly specialised task of obtaining ballistics information for heavy guns? >He said he originally became familiar with this particular model >of radar reflector while serving overseas in Osaka. And lest this escapes the notice of our gentle readers, we should point out that W/O Newton wasn't an Air Force Intelligence Officer, but a weatherman, a special breed of individual who spent his time working with balloons, rawin targets and radiosondes. (And we all know where weathermen go after work; to the nearest Iso-bar! Sorry...) >Three other interesting photos were in the Atlanta Consitution on >July 10 and July 11. They showed another style radar reflector Do you wonder why they used "another style" of radar reflector, what with ML-307s supposedly being available in great abundance at all military bases right across the country? >being launched by the local Naval weather station (also made of >foil and balsa), again being used as an explanation for the flying >saucers. I believe this was a specific case of a "saucer" sighting that was shown to be a balloon train. The Navy obliged by launching another "saucer" for the media. >This radar reflector was carried aloft by an ARRAY of >four weather balloons, three black and one white. This shoots >down the argument of Charles Moore that ONLY Project Mogul >launched balloon arrays, "Array" configurations were patterned after balloon-borne "standard cosmic ray flight techniques," according to the NYU Technical Report No. 1, April 1948. But four balloons is hardly a couple of dozen. Who else was launching arrays of that size at the time? >and the blackened rubber weather balloon in Ramey's office could >ONLY have come from one of their weather balloons that had lain >out in the sun and darkened. Pilot balloons, also known as "pibals," were available in different colours. An article in the July 17, 1947, Roswell _Daily Record_, "Disks Are Made To Order Here Says Roswell Weatherman," describes the sighting of a "flying disk sailing" over the New Mexico Military Institute. The weatherman, L.J. Guthrie, informed the _Record_ that at the time of the sighting a "balloon run" was in progress not far from the Institute. He added that "balloons of all colors are used in making the runs....We have red, yellow, white, blue or indigo." Pibals came in different colours to aid visual tracking under various weather conditions - light colours against clear sky, darker colours for cloudy conditions. This pigmentation made them resistant to deterioration in sunlight. Mogul was dependant on high-altitude, long-duration flight which required the use of unpigmented sounding balloons. (Prof. Moore has stated that pigmentation introduced impurities into the neoprene which resulted in degraded performance.) This lack of pigment caused sounding balloons to darken quite quickly. It's hard to make out the colour of the balloons seen in the B&W pictures taken in Gen. Ramey's office, but Irving Newton described the scene as: (http://www.express-news.net/unauth/roswell/index.html) >From San Antonio Express-News "And then the neoprene, the remnants of the balloon. The best thing I can think of, it looked like little cow pies, because this rubber material ... it had been laying in the desert, in the sun and it had all shriveled up and got black." If the balloon material had been ordinary pigmented black/indigo pibal material, the colouring would have been noticeable as part of the balloon skin, not as the consequence of exposure to sunlight. Unpigmented sounding balloons exposed to several weeks of sunlight is still the best fit for the balloons displayed in General Ramey's office. Continued in Part Two... - John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Futher update on IRC/Ultrachat problems - UK.UFO.NW From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:03:41 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:49:25 -0400 Subject: Futher update on IRC/Ultrachat problems - UK.UFO.NW UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Hi All, Sorry for the delay in letting you know what's happening. The problem is that the server connection that has all the Ultranet DNS names is prematurely offline due to the fact it is being moved to a faster internet connection, however this should have all been done very quickly but for unknown reasons the present connection was pulled by mistake so we will have to wait, possibly two weeks before the faster connection is made. The Ultranet servers are STILL there but for now you must use the specific server names until the DNS is back in place within the next week or so. To connect for now use one of the following servers by running your irc software and typing: /server 194.70.195.123 best for uk people /server 194.158.97.69 for eu /server dream.club-internet.fr for eu /server 194.234.90.30 Norway If you are not in the uk or eu just use the uk server for now. Also all the irc java (ultrachat) webpages will be offline for the next couple of weeks. All should be back to normal in no time at all but with the added bonus of even faster speed. See you all on #UFO Saturday. Crow & Raine........ United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/3665/ ufo@aliens.ml.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 12 Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #25 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:39:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:55:44 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #25 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #25 Members = 1424 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Thursday 12th June 1997. **************************************** The latest formation to appear at Stonehenge. We have the first aerial online now. **************************************** All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: Close Encounters in Roswell From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:08:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:17:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Close Encounters in Roswell > From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> > To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Close Encounters in Roswell > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0700 > We've put together a package of stories about the Roswell Incident (no > Fugo balloons, though!) ... and we hope to have more UFO-related > material as the 50th anniversary nears. Please tune us in at: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/78029.asp > Many thanks, > Alan Boyle > Writer/Editor, MSNBC This material is vintage Kal Korff, in fact Kal who hasn't managed to respond to David Rudiak's post for almost three weeks here managed to be the prime source quoted in the lead of MSNBC's article. Oops I inadvertently deleted MSNBC from my UFO booksmarks! Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Further UFO TV news - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:16:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:13:49 -0400 Subject: Further UFO TV news - United Kingdom UFO Network UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK UK.UFO.NW would like to thank John Locker and John Hayes for the below information. Source: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> From: satcom@cyserv1.cybase.co.uk (John Locker) Subject: Week of UFO programmes in the UK. For all UK Skywatchers....put a note in your diaries for the last week of June......from the 22nd to the 28th ITV will broadcast a number of films and discussion programmes in an attempt to get to the Truth about UFOs and ETs. On June 27th at 2030hrs local, a special 90 minute edition of Strange But True will air a live debate on the subject, which should attract an audience of about 10 million viewers. I have been in touch with the producer of the show, who is looking for videos...background info etc...PLEASE NOTE...this is intended as a serious debate, an attempt to make the subject a real issue, not just something to snigger at. It looks like this will be the first time that the video I captured of the NASA conversation (sts82) will be broadcast, and may well prove a focal point for discussion about a possible hidden agenda....and NASA's stance on ETs. (uk.ufo.nw says: See issue {70} of uk.ufo.nw e-zine, article number [U1]******) If you require further info, please let me know.. Don't forget that CNN will also have a Q&A programme, on Friday 13th of June at 1630gmt...subject..."UFOs" Regards, John. ****** John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ ****** -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: Close Encounters in Roswell From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:18:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:18:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Close Encounters in Roswell > From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> > To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Close Encounters in Roswell > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0700 > We've put together a package of stories about the Roswell Incident (no > Fugo balloons, though!) ... and we hope to have more UFO-related > material as the 50th anniversary nears. Please tune us in at: Mr. Boyle, Why are you willing to give Kal Korff's book publicity? Have you been following his attempts to promote his book through possibly deceptive means on this list? Have you read the many interesting reviews of his book? Would you be willing to publish my review of his book to balance this issue? I'm not sure what happened at Roswell, but I do know that Kal's book is FULL of errors! Best Wishes, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:59:10 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:03:58 PDT >Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:34:48 -0400 >Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 > Richard > Lewontin's essay, which it is clear you have not read, points out > that many things Sagan claims as self-evidently true are > themselves empirically unfounded or at least open to dispute. > For all that he portrayed himself as speaking from the authority > of science, Sagan himself was a kind of true believer, Lewontin > argues. His point: before you debunk, purge yourself of your own > favorite myths. Lewontin also wrote that Sagan's version of what > science is (which you embrace uncritically) is essentially on the > comic-book level. Thanks for writing about this essay/review. I don't know where I read Lewotin's piece, perhaps in the New York Review of Books or something, but it points out many flaws in Sagan's Demon-Haunted World as well as Sagan's thinking. It would be great if someone actually still had this article and could post it to this list. Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 AUFORA: MSNBC UFO Poll From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:57:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:57:20 -0400 Subject: AUFORA: MSNBC UFO Poll [See comment beneath AUFORA's post below - ebk] Subject: AUFORA: MSNBC UFO Poll Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 23:11:17 -0600 From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> To: "AUFORA News Update" <aufora@spots.ab.ca> AUFORA News Update Thursday June 12th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ ________________________ MSNBC is hosting a UFO poll on their site. They would like to know what=20 your explanation for the UFO phenomenon is (ie. extraterrestrial=20 visitors, military aircraft etc.). As I write this message, only 114=20 people have voted. Perhaps we can increase this number to show the true=20 strength of the internet UFO community! Voting only takes a second!: http://www.msnbc.com/news/79556.asp If you wish to send them a more detailed written comment, they can be=20 reached at: ufo@msnbc.com If you do email them, why not mention AUFORA? Thanks, Dave Watanabe __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association __________________________________________________________ ------------------- From: http://www.msnbc.com/news/79556.asp Your poll is inadequate in that ALL the responses may be correct. You need a multiple-answer poll at the very least. The UFO enigma is far more complicated than your simple poll allows for. Remember what UFO is an acronym for, and it is obvious that any or all of your poll items=20 may be candidates. Good siite otherwise. =97 Jim Boldman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:05:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: SKYWATCH Post Only <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Special Report by Col. Wilson >On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We >received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint US/British >NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing where we would be >met by a Special Delta Force team. We were to contact the Base >Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor, and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The >Deputy Base Commander about the UFO sighting and landing there. We >were to view the complete filming including the landing. Our >investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in the grass >unlike the aircraft itself. This pattern was identical to a landing >pattern (Crop Circle) produced at Warminster, England on or near the >same date. We concluded that the Unidentified aircraft, Circular, Size >30 ft by 20 feet tall, made the patterns because of the unusual >propulsion systems used. The film was immediately sent to a special >office in the Pentagon designated OSIP (This changes constantly to >avoid detection). We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the >arrival of the craft. Interesting to note how less than twelve hours later on state road 1485 near Dayton, Texas Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and Vickie's grandson Colby were exposed to high intensity electromagnetic radiation from what they claim was a large diamond shaped craft accompanied by some 23 twin-rotor Chinook-type helicopters in what has become known as the Cash-Landrum incident. Two fascinating cases in two different countries occurring within hours of eachother. Jared Anderson
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: fuquay@cnquest.com (Duane Fuquay) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:18:38 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:47:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' ---------- Amazon.Com has copies of "The Roswell Report- Solved" by James McAndrew published by the GPO in hard cover for $52.00. I read the article in Popular Mechanics concerning the new Fugo/ Horten's lifting body explanation and IMHO this is harder to swallow than the extraterrestrial explanation. The most interesting part of the article was that Popular Mechanics- a "mainstream" publication- examined the evidence for the Mogul explanation and decided the Air Force was full of it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:43:09 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > From: EdKomarek@aol.com > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:34:52 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > I do think Bob Dean is a credible witness and his military credentials have > held up under scrunity. Perhaps you could tell me why you consider him not > to be credible. He's a storyteller. He does not have direct evidence. I am not saying that he's a liar -- he may very well be telling the truth. Do we want storytellers? Or do we want documentable facts presented as the Best Evidence? I know you are gonna say that with its subpoena power that Congress could call additional witnesses who could corroborate Dean's story. Now, we might be getting somewhere. But has Bob Dean told us who those witnesses are? Have we checked them out and what they will testify to? Wait, do we even know that Bob Dean will testify? Ed, I think the Congressional Hearings as presented by CSETI are a pipe dream. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Speculating about who will, can or might testify, is pointless. Greer has already stated he is not going to tell us who his witnesses are. But a ripe area for discussion might be: Who is credible? Maybe we could discuss that here on this list. Debate about why we think certain people are more credible than others. We have some great members on this list and I would like to believe that they would share their opinions as to the validity of some of the stories. > I understand that Thomas Deuley(NSA retired) is a nice man too and I have > given my reasons why I think as I do about him. Thomas Deuley to my knowledge has never denied or hidden the fact that he was involved with the NSA. I really don't see what the big deal is. I admire the man for telling the truth. I admire him for telling MUFON members about the NSA documents. He could have lied, but apparently he didn't. Had Thomas Deuley ever tried to hide the fact that he was involved with the NSA, I doubt that any of us, could have proven that he had ever been there. I'm basing that on the fact that it is practically impossible to document involvement with the CIA. I would think that it would be the same for the NSA. Why do you think he was upfront about it? > You say a witness that is not credible can do us a lot of damage. I think > that one well positioned man with a little support can do immense damage to > our cause. I really need to know where Deuleys loyalties lie and he is not > talking. I sincerely hope that he is not plugging security leaks for the > NSA > and other intelligence agencies. I hope good honest men are not rotting in > military jails for divulging classified UFO/ET related information to MUFON. Ed, there you go again. And we were making such progress! You wanna know where Thomas Deuley stands? I'll post an article that he wrote for our local newsletter. Pretty much sums up where he stands, IMO. But it isn't going to prove anything to someone who doesn't want to see. > This is a very good point. The problem is that under such stringent > criteria > you can eliminate everybody on the planet. Some one somewhere can find mud > on anybody anywhere if they dig enough. Ed, I don't care whether they had affairs or married their cousins, I want to know if they are honest, really worked the places they claimed, etc. > Maybe as I suggested to you in private email all parties, Greer, the > Coalition, and the Deans can eventually get together and develop a list of > the most credible witnesses. Perhaps that is too much to ask however as > Greer and Dean's critics in the Coalition seem to find no military > witnesses > credible. Really? No military witnesses credible? I find that hard to believe. What about Bentwaters 1956 -- military witnesses? I bet they find those guys credible. What about the military witnesses at the SAC bases [1975]? What about Lt. Col. Charles Halt? [Bentwaters, 1980] Geez, I bet there are a bunch more.. those came to me off the top of my head. And I'm speculating too... I have no idea what the Coalition thinks about witnesses. I have a pretty good idea what they think about evidence though. There's some evidence and corroboration in the cases mentioned above. > The thrust of the Coalition seems to be, if I understood you rightly, to be > that members of Congress should only be presented with the best written and > photographic evidence accumulated, not human military witnesses. You understand that I was stating fact and that I don't speak for the Coalition. Not at all. Please understand that Ed. Might be better to check the web pages or even ask them what they think. I can only guess. > I agree there could be a problem here. Thats why we need a broader approach > if at all possible. I think Steven is a reasonable person and understands > the need for a broader approach but when he is attacked and undermined its > harder for him to work toward cooperation don't you think? My personal opinion again here Ed. I have never spoken to Steven Greer. But based on what I have learned from others and from reading his writings, I don't think that Steven Greer is a reasonable person at all. I think he is intelligent though. That's why I find it hard to meld his writings with him... his writings appear to be wishful thinking. They are not based in fact, in my opinion. > Yes this is a good point but no evidence is perfect and we will have other > chances. We will win eventually. If evidence were perfect, we wouldn't be having this discussion. <g> But the vast amount of the credible evidence ought to be enough for Congress. But it has to be presented properly. And those Congressional Hearings aren't gonna just happen because we want them to. They are only going to happen if the public demand that they happen. > Well lets see, Kal Korff seems to be already taking himself out of the > running and the evidence accumulated on the lists serves have proven my > accusations that he is a debunker are true. On top of that I think even > Karl > Pflock is going to to expose him, one reason being he reflects badly on the > other more clever debunkers. All this if I understood Stacy correctly. Now, that is what I call spin control! Wow, Karl is going to slam Kal because Kal makes the other debunkers look bad. That's really funny, Ed. > Oh I love it when we have fighting in the opposition! I understand Karl is > upset that Prometheus books have accepted Kal's book and not his. Also it > seems that Kal has taken some of the attention away from Karl. I think > these > two individuals along with Stacy have crapped as you say on enough people > themselves that they don't need you to defend them. No, I think Karl has had a different publisher all along. The only good thing about Prometheus books, is that they don't ever seem to take their books out of print. <g> How did you come to understand that Karl is upset about Prometheus? Can you share your source for that? > As for Tom Deuley and Dr. Hynek they are and were nice men. Thats the ones I > really worry about. Both have and had strong ties to both the UFO community > and the intelligence community. Time has a way of bringing out the truth. Explain that one Ed? How was it ever misrepresented that these guys had ties to the intelligence community. > Testimony by military witnesses is much more than just stories as you say. > I > don't see where all the documentary evidence accumulated over the years is > going to get to the bottom of the coverup. Its a safe tactic but its not > going to get at the root of the problem the secret black budget UFO/ET > programs that are undermining our society. You are entitled to your opinion. Go to this site and read this essay: http://www.jse.com/haisch/ufo.html Read it and tell me what you think. > The military witnesses can name names and projects and tell where to look > for > real evidence. If Congress is serious these witnesses will be the thread > that when pulled unravel the coverup. I seriously doubt that generals and > heads of intelligence agencies are going to lie when faced with contempt and > perjury charges from Congress. Its risky but there is also the payoff to > consider. I just don't agree with this. And as said before you better know what everyone is going to say. You are going into a trial, so to speak, and no witness should be put on the stand, if you don't know what he is going to say. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 13 Re: Reply to Dennis Stacy From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:09:43 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:40:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Reply to Dennis Stacy Part Two of One Small Question For Mankind... Regarding: >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:09:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: dstacy@texas.net >cc: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Reply to Dennis Stacy. Was: One small question for mankind >Another point about Moore's argument that doesn't stand up to >scrutiny is the fact that a weather balloon that had sat out in >the hot New Mexico sun for a month would not be relatively intact, >as the one in Ramey's office was. Moore in his Air Force >interview stated that the neoprene rubber balloons started to >deteriorate almost immediately in the sunlight, darkened within >days, and were reduced to ashlike flakes within weeks. This is the main reason why I haven't embraced the Mogul report to my bosom and proclaimed it to be the final word on the matter. Prof. Moore was asked to sign a statement affirming that the balloons degraded in a matter of _days_. Moore contacted Robert Todd (_Cowflop Quarterly_, Vol 1. No. 1), and informed him that the Air Force had got it wrong. It took _months_ for the _material_ to deteriorate into a charred paper and ash-like state. It's difficult to get enthusiastic about an official report that strongarms a "friendly" witness into making an "erroneous" statement. >And the military staged numerous weather balloon launches with radar >reflectors in the following two days after Fort Worth to debunk >the nationwide epidemic of flying discs. Or to protect Mogul. Let's talk about the Alamogordo launch. The day after Generals Ramey and Yates had told the world that radar targets were only used for "specific purposes", what happens? The press is invited to visit Alamogordo for a balloon launch. Photographs of this "uplifting" experience show the reporters being treated to the release of a couple of balloons with two radar targets attached. (Excitement plus!) In addition, they got to hear from a Major W.D. Prichard "stationed here with the Watson Laboratories," (the _Watson Laboratories_!) who told us: [...] A limited number of these balloons have been released in the past 15 months, Major Prichard said, the number increasing sharply in recent weeks. "We use the balloons rather than aircraft in the experiment because it is slower in the air and can be more readily studied and followed," he said. "It goes higher than the eye can see and a radar set is employed to follow its course." Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? A "limited" number of balloons used in "the experiment," and they're tracked by radar. But what experiment exactly? [...] Purpose of the experiments is to train men in the observing and training flights of V-2 rockets and other experimental projects. Quite innocuous. Except that one of the "other experimental" projects Major Prichard didn't mention was Mogul - and it was being staged right out of Alamogordo. What better way to hide Mogul in plain sight than to release a story about the by-now famous radar reflectors, especially since Mogul was still underway and chances were that more of the balloon trains would end up being found in New Mexico by civilians before they could be recovered? You keep insisting that the "importance" of the Mogul balloons was their components, but with the exception of the specially modified sonobuoys used to detect low frequency sound waves, that's incorrect. Nothing about the Mogul construction was classified. But if you doubt that the Mogul trains weren't special, take another look at that Alamogordo picture; 3 pibals and two radar targets. Then look at the widely available diagrams of a Mogul balloon train. Care to play "Spot The Difference"? If Mogul wasn't special, why didn't Watson Labs release a Mogul balloon train for the press? For that matter, if Mogul wasn't special, why was it classified 'Top Secret 1A'. The Manhattan Project was also classified '1A,' which seems like an abnormally high security rating just to protect a few cocktail ingredients. (I guess the Pentagon staff took their drinking mighty seriously.) Oh, wait a second. Wasn't there another 'Manhattan Project,' something about an A-bomb or something? The only purpose for the balloons featured in the newspaper photographs was to carry the attached targets aloft. Mogul used large numbers of balloons to carry sonobuoys to great altitudes and the radar targets were used to track the train. If Alamogordo had released pictures of a 600-foot-long balloon train and tried to claim it was solely for "meteorological purposes," many people, including those with certain foreign accents, would have observed: "That's a _very_ big balloon just to measure which way the wind is blowing, Comrade." >Another indication of a hastily concocted weather balloon story is >that Ramey was putting out the weather balloon explanation within >an hour of the Roswell press release. This was BEFORE Marcel had >even arrived at Fort Worth with the debns. We don't know that for a fact because the time-line is so "fluid." If Marcel had left Roswell at noon he would have arrived well before 3:00 PM Ft. Worth time. By 4:00 PM J. Bond Johnson had been summoned to the base to take his photographs. >Yet he told Gen. Vandenberg and the Washington D.C. press corp at >the Pentagon that he had just gone to take a look, and the "disc" >looked like an old box kite. We still don't know precisely when the debris arrived. >Unfortunately Ramey also said it was 25 feet across. Do you see >anything in the Fort Worth photos that appears to be 25 feet >across? Obviously Ramey was confabulating at this point, and >perhaps not being intimately familiar with radar reflectors, >dramatically blew it up into a size more in keeping with the >various flying disc reports. The "Fog of War" has nothing on the "Miasma of the Media." Read three different wire reports of the same event and you're likely to discover widely differing accounts. The Reuter newswire out of London stated: In a telephone conversation with Army Air Force Headquarters in Washington, he [Ramey] described the object as a "flimsy construction almost like a box kite." [...] It would have had a diameter of about 20 to 25 feet if reconstructed the officials said. [...] Reuter claimed the size of the device was attributed to unnamed "officials." >For many hours afterwards, military spokesman were still >reporting that the object was 20-25 feet across. If reconstructed. Presumably that meant if you added a balloon or two to the radar target(s). >>Did someone in the Air Force say, "You know, this stuff Jesse is >>describing isn't all that different on the surface from Project >>Mogul material...foil, sticks, some plastic. Pink-purple symbols, tape, smoky gray rubber... And along comes a spaceship with almost identical characteristics. Amazing. >It was Blanchard who communicated with Ramey and higher >headquarters, and Blanchard indicated to others that he had seen >the debris and hadn't seen anything like it before. Where would he have seen something like it before? > So it wasn't just "Jesse" who was describing this stuff. But it was Jesse who came in and said "flying disk!" Brazel probably presented the idea when he brought in the material to claim the $3000 reward for the first "flying disk in captivity." Btw, do we know who was behind that reward? >And according to Dubose from other testimony, the military already >had a good look at the stuff from two days before. And yet they went ahead and issued a press release which blew what had until then been a perfect cover-up? >If it had been nothing but balloon material, Of unknown origin... >I'm sure some 70+ IQ Air Force person along the chain of command >would finally have recognized rubber, tinfoil, and balsa for what >it was, And what was it _exactly_? Where had it come from? What was it doing out in the middle of nowhere? Had the pixies left it? And what were "flying disks" made of? Nobody knew. The material had to be examined and identified. It's easy to look back 50 years and say flying disk = ET spaceship, but in 1947 this was all very new. People just didn't know what the darn things were. >But this whole ridiculous scenario is that nobody, absolutely >nobody in the Air Force could figure out this "exotic" >Mogul debris and let the dunces back at Roswell know what it was. Not true, the smarty-pants weather guy at Ft. Worth told the ninnies at Roswell what it was. It's important to stress that _nobody_ knew what a "flying disk" was, and this allowed imaginations to run wild and confusion to reign. Let me tell you a true story... Once upon a time in a land far, far away - actually, it was the night of July 10, 1947, in Twin Falls, Idaho - a Mrs. Fred Easterbrook heard a loud thud outside her home. Upon investigation she found two strips of torn up turf, and at the end of the trail of damage her eyes beheld... a disk! Mrs Easterbrook called the local police. Some members of Twin Falls' finest arrived that morning, took one look at the disk - about the size of a bicycle wheel - and called in the FBI. The FBI examined the disk and called the local army base. Three military officers flew in from Fort Douglas, Utah. They looked the disk over and contacted their HQ. At noon that day five more people flew in; two Lt. Colonels, two 1st Lieutenants, and a man in "plain clothes." These fellows ignored the waiting press and headed straight for where the disk was being held. A short while later these five mystery men slipped away from police headquarters, taking the disk of unknown origin back to Salt Lake City with them. It was only then that the Assistant Police Chief, one L.D. McCracken, stepped forward to make the announcement: The disk was a "hoax" constructed by some teenagers out of an old phonograph, some burnt wire and radio tubes. And that was that. Or was it? I mean, who do these guys think they're kidding?! Some teenage kids - they couldn't be named because they were juveniles - hah! how convenient - put together a disk about the size of a bicycle wheel out of various bits of junk, and we're expected to believe that the local police were too stupid to recognise it? Nonsense! One of my neighbours is a former policeman and when I asked him if he knew what a phonograph looked like he said, "Of course, my granny had one." Did he know what radio tubes looked like? Definitely. His parents had an old valve radio. How about burnt wire? Sure he knew what that was - it was like regular wire, only burnt! But we're supposed to believe the Twin Falls' cops couldn't tell what this common household stuff was? Sure... The FBI comes along. Now, these guys are _really_ smart, major players in the high I.Q. league, but did they recognize the disk for the assemblage of junk it was supposed to be? No way, they called in the army. Three army officers arrive, examine this alleged confection of unremarkable parts, and what do they do? Send for reinforcements! Five more guys fly in to examine what obviously, definitely, no-way-in-the-world-could-it-be-anything-but some prank by a few local kiddies, and they play "I've got a secret" with the press. No names, no identification, they go straight to the police station, seize the disk, and fly out to Salt Lake City with it. Only once these strangers are safely on their way are we told: "Four teenage boys confessed making the object and throwing it into the yard." Yeah, right... All this drama and high-level military activity because of an old phonograph, some wire, and a bunch of radio tubes? A prank by teenagers? Only a "drooling idiot" would buy that. Obviously, it was a _real_ flying disk, and this "hoax" explanation was a cheap and pathetic cover story. Sure the disk was only 30 inches in diameter, but with nanotechnology, who's to say some advanced civilization might not have engineered really teeny people to fly it? Or maybe they were dehydrated. I saw this in a Bugs Bunny cartoon once; "Instant Martians, Just Add Water." Maybe that's why the three army guys called in those reinforcements; some klutz spilled coffee on one of the little ETs and it rehydrated into some giant critter like James Arness in "The Thing From Another World"? I don't know, but it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that it doesn't take seven (count 'em _seven_) military officers and a CIC man to identify some silly fake saucer put together by four teenagers. You want further proof this was a real saucer? The Twin Falls case isn't in the Blue Book files, just like Roswell! Oh sure, it was in the papers, just like Roswell, and there were even pictures of the disk being held by an army officer, again, just like Roswell. A coincidence? Or further evidence of yet another "flying saucer" cover-up? Or maybe, just maybe, the Army officers really didn't know what the stuff was, and decided to err on the side of caution until a positive identification could be made? Calling something a "flying disk" meant nothing. Getting it to the right person who could identify it was the important thing, and that's what happened with the Roswell debris. They got a weatherman to identify some meteorological equipment that was part of a Top Secret project. In the Twin Falls case they should have ignored the Army and called in a jukebox repairman instead. And while we're speaking of "projects"... Robert Smith, a member of the First Air Transport Unit, had something interesting to say in _Crash At Corona_: There were a lot of people in plain clothes all over the place. They were inspectors, but they were strangers on the base. When challenged, they replied they were here on Project So-and-So, and flashed a card, which was different from a military ID card. Project "So-and-So," eh? You don't suppose....? >I think another very important point that the skeptics keep >dodging is the fact that both Blanchard and Ramey spoke very >highly of Marcel after Roswell. Why wouldn't they? >Ramey a year later, e.g., called his services "outstanding." And why not? Recall Irving Newton's observations: The general asked me what I thought...I told him what I thought. It appeared to me that the General was sort of ridiculing him [Marcel] for being such an ass for bringing that weather balloon all the way over from Roswell. (R/S#2, p.45) The general had had his fun. Later, according to Marcel, he said: "The general told me, you go back to Roswell. You're more needed there." (ibid) And he was. >Now if an intelligence officer had really screwed up the >identification of simple balloon material, "Simple" if he'd been familiar with it. How many meteorology certification courses did Major Marcel take? >I think the superior officers who were intimately familiar with >what happened would be having serious second thoughts about the >competence of this intel officer. Life is one-part training and a whole lot of experience. Marcel had neither training nor experience in meteorology or "saucer" spotting. People were finding "disks" all over America, and the military were treating them _all_ very seriously. Remember that Shreveport, Louisiana "disk" that the "army grabbed" and wouldn't let the FBI see, or the Spokane "disk" which involved even General Vandenberg? Hoaxes, all of them, and yet they were treated as being the genuine article while investigations were underway. Lots of people were seeing disks in the sky. Many of these objects were reported as being "silvery" - that's how Brazel connected the debris to the reports of "silver saucers" - so to Marcel the material could have come from a "disk" even though there was nothing "disk-like" about it. When presented with the claimed remains of a "disk" by Marcel, Colonel Blanchard had to make a decision. He couldn't look under 'F' in the Encyclopaedia Britannica and read up on "flying disks," there was nothing under "disks" in the USAAF yearbook, and he didn't have time to write a letter to Anne Landers. "Disk" won by default when he took Marcel's word for it. After that everything went through channels, just like investigations into all the other "flying disk" discoveries in Twin Falls, Spokane, Shreveport, Trinity Bay, Hillsboro, Grafton, Wisc., Nth. Hollywood, Oelwein, Iowa, etc., etc. >Now why would flying saucer materials superficially resemble >balloon material? Right down to the size and weight of the triangular sections and pink-purple writing. That's a good question, why would it? >First of all, there was nothing resembling or smelling like rubber >weather balloons There was according to Bessie Schrieber. >or smelling like rubber weather balloons reported by anybody at >the debris field. Out in the open, where the wind comes sweeping down the plain? (Or does the wind only sweep down the plain in Oklahoma?) >Nor was there the hundreds of feet of balloon twine What about the monofilament/wire material Brazel Jr. described? [...] >The Mogul radar reflectors, on the other hand, each had about >18 square feet of foil. If there had been 3 radar reflectors, >as Charles Moore has indicated, that's a grand total of 54 square >feet of aluminum foil, not nearly enough to densely litter many acres >of land. Define "densely." Bessie didn't describe the field as being dense at all. There's also some dispute as to the size of the debris field, not to mention the by-now burning issue of whether there was or wasn't any "gouge." What's the latest score on that one, btw? How many "For," how many "Against"? [...] >But the outer metallic hull of a craft say 30 feet across could >have on the order of a 1000+ square feet of skin material plus >several hundred feet of supporting framework. Examine the illustrations of the "craft" in R/S#2. Remember, these are based on _first-hand eyewitness_ testimony. Yes, I know that one "ship" doesn't look anything like the other one, but let's not bother with details. The "damage" is represented as being remarkably small - easily less than 10% of the total size of of the craft. If Mogul doesn't fit because there's too little debris, then the "eyewitness" reports of the craft are suspect because there was too much debris to have come from such a small "tear". Of course, that's only if we accept the Marcel estimate of the size and density of the debris field. If we choose somewhere between Cavitt and Brazel's estimates we've got a much smaller area to think about, with or without the gouge. [...] >As an example, NASA is currently experimenting with a titanium >foil/silicon carbide cloth composite which is very >strong and heat resistant for use as a hull material in future >space shuttles. I think the superficial resemblance to the >reported Roswell debris is obvious. As was the stuff wrapped around the baked potato I had for lunch. ;-) [...] >Jeez, so now NASA lunatic scientists are talking about super >strong, lightweight, thermally resistant, active materials, i.e. >complex materials that can respond to the environment in >intelligent ways. Technology has been going in this direction for decades. It's not a new concept. Technology moves forward, components become smaller and fewer, and when one part in your new VCR needs replacing, you're told to throw the whole thing away and buy a new one. >Shades of Roswell! We have seen the Future and it is Roswell? Liquid-metal spacecraft of unimaginable strength that blow-up and crash during electrical storms? No thanks, I'll take the bus. >You don't suppose that might even include metal-like materials >that actively return to their original shape, just like that lying >Jesse Marcel and other lying Roswell witnesses reported? Not to mention scientists and SF movies who have been predicting similar materials for decades. >Another question I know you have repeatedly asked was why weren't >there a great variety of materials found if this was really a >saucer crash? I can only respond that there are many instances in >which previously very complicated devices become "simpler" through >integration as our technology advances. [...] >This all may be possible in the next 100 years. Taking 100 years to advance 100 years technologically seems like a poor return for our efforts. We've (allegedly) had this incredible example of super-duper technology in our hands for nearly 50 years. Hundreds if not thousands of the best and brightest have slaved over every millimetre of this craft at who-knows-what financial cost and burden to civil liberties. (Those MJ-12 guys must be unspeakably ruthless to have maintained a secret of this magnitude for so long.) Linda Moulton-Howe has made a half-hearted attempt to link the single most important technological discovery of the 20th Century - velcro - to Roswell, and I think Mr Friedman has suggested that the transistor also evolved from the sifted sands of the Roswell debris. But after 50 years, what have we done with this stuff? Why hasn't someone combined the technology and given us, well, digital velcro? Imagine, velcro with a digital amplifier! We could turn down the volume and spare ourselves that nerve-jangling "Kashkritz!" sound. If a spaceship really crashed to earth 50 years ago, shouldn't we have unlocked its secrets and become "smarter" and more accomplished residents of our solar system by now? Or are the secrets of the craft so impenetrable that we're still looking for the glove compartment so we can read the User's Manual? >>Why don't we just *say* it's a balloon, and no one >>will ever be the wiser?" >Well they continue to fool you, Dennis. They said balloon to ALL >the flying saucer reports, not just Roswell. >Go read the newspaper stories of July 6-11, 1947, including those >of the various staged weather balloon launches of July 9 and 10.. And conclude what? That large triangular UFO moving silently over Chico, California, was a weather balloon launched in Seattle? Those glowing disks flying over Uruguay were pibals from Ohio? The idea that the Air Force might try to pass off balloon launches as the cause of some "saucer" sightings is entirely plausible. It would be doomed to failure from the outset, of course, but it might have temporarily given the Air Force some breathing space. They simply weren't equipped to handle or investigate the number of reports that were flooding in at the time. I think this means I'm agreeing with you. (Don't look so shocked! <g>) >It has been quite obvious from your many smart-ass posts on >Roswell that you are poorly acquainted with the facts of the case. I'm not speaking for Dennis - my Texan accent is atrocious - but I can understand his point of view. For the "best" and most important UFO event in history, the case is, basically, a mess. Not enough of a mess to dismiss it entirely - there's much to learn from a detailed analysis of many aspects of it - but what do we _really_ know? Not guess, surmise, wonder, posit, or offer seven different explanations for, but actually _know_? Apart from the fact that someone in Roswell decided to announce they'd found a "disk" back in July of 1947, not much. >I have responded to your e-mail in detail because I hope it is an >indication that you are being more serious and are genuinely >interested in learning more on the Roswell case. May I put my hand up and announce that I'm "genuinely interested" in learning more about Roswell, too? I'll admit it, put 'Roswell' on something and I want it; book cover, video tape, T-shirt. If McDonalds started selling Roswell-burgers I'd be their best customer. (Needless to say, if these Roswell-burgers were true to the "spirit" of Roswell, they'd have to be sold in a large box and when you opened it all you'd find is a piece of wrapping paper and a trace of "special sauce." "Hey, where's the burger?" "Sorry, the Air Force came and took them all away.") [...] >Perhaps you are beginning to understand that there is more to >all this than you originally thought, I've been patient as each new Roswell witness, book, and startling revelation arrived on the scene, then waited, hopefully, for the other shoe to drop. I'm still waiting. Could something of the magnitude of Roswell really have happened and left us none the wiser? Paraphrasing: "A spaceship from another planet crashed to Earth and all I've got to show for it is a couple of books and a telemovie?" Major historical events are analagous to a rock being thrown into a pool; a big splash followed by thousands of ripples reaching out and touching places far removed from the initial point of impact. But not in the case of Roswell. A moderate-sized splash followed by thirty years of silence. No ripples. No follow-on effect. Now fifty years later we're finally "hearing" the splash, but there still aren't any ripples. What happened? Didn't the combined energies of the U.S. military industrial complex, the same organization that brought the A-bomb into existance, marshall its forces and commence "The Roswell Project"? Even if it ended in abject failure with the secrets of the craft remaining unfathomed, shouldn't there have been hundreds (at least) of people involved in the effort to research the craft? And I don't even want to think about the amount of paperwork this would've generated. After fifty years of the world's best minds slaving to decode the mysteries of this wondrous ET technology, why hasn't one of them ever concluded that we're _all_ entitled to know about it? Isn't there anybody better than a Corso who can come forward to spill the cosmic beans? Why hasn't one of these insiders ever leaked some documentation that _everybody_ can agree is genuine? A few years ago there was an earnest attempt to win over members of the U.S. congress with an information package and videotape of the best of the Roswell "eyewitnesses." These included Gerald Anderson, Walter Haut and Glenn Dennis. Any new attempts to plead a case for Roswell would have to go ahead without the "testimony" of these three previously highly-promoted "witnesses." We can cling to the past and shout "no fair" when the rest of the world yawns and says "uh-huh" to the "overwhelming" evidence gathered by Roswell researchers in the past twenty years, but it's not going to get us very far. If Roswell didn't begin and end in 1947, there _must_ be other witnesses out there. They need to come forward. And perhaps that's where the real test for Roswell will come, sometime in the next fifty years as part of "Roswell: The Next Generation." If no new credible witnesses come forward, Roswell will become this century's Aurora airship crash. Remember the tale of the "Airship" that crashed into a windmill in the small Texas town of Aurora one night in April of 1897? The craft exploded, destroying the windmill and leaving behind the body of a little man "not of this world," a large metal debris field, and paper covered in strange hieroglyphics. No remains of the little man, his ship, the mysterious metal or "alien" writing were ever found, but we still have the newspaper stories. Meanwhile, right now, today, people are seeing unexplained things in the sky. UFOs: Definitely. Roswell: Maybe, Maybe Not. Best, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: legion | drudiak |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:35:00 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:46:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:02 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze > In my opinion Bruce Maccabee is one of the few people in this field > who knows what the hell he is talking about, particularly with > regard to photographic analysis. > Bob Shell Sometime in 1985 (or 1986) one Peter Beard submitted four UFO photographs, taken in the UK, to BUFORA. BUFORA was a bit suspicious of the photographs, but couldn't be sure that there was anything wrong with them, so sent them to Bruce Maccabee in the US for analysis. After about a year, BM came back to say that he didn't know what the pictures were showing, but that he was convinced that they were genuine. During that time, the witness finally admitted to BUFORA that the pictures were photographs of something which he had cut out and stuck to his bedroom window. Robert Bull
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:41:50 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:55:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:13 +0200 >Subject: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (fwd) >12. June 1997 04.39.51 >Message >From: d005734c@dc.seflin.org,Internet >Subject: Re: Special Report (Project Pounce; Col. Steve Wilson) >To: Stig Agermose >From: SKYWATCH Post Only <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> >Special Report by Col. Wilson >On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We >received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint US/British >NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing where we would be >met by a Special Delta Force team. We were to contact the Base >Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor, and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The >Deputy Base Commander about the UFO sighting and landing there. We >were to view the complete filming including the landing. Our >investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in the grass >unlike the aircraft itself. This pattern was identical to a landing >pattern (Crop Circle) produced at Warminster, England on or near the >same date. We concluded that the Unidentified aircraft, Circular, Size >30 ft by 20 feet tall, made the patterns because of the unusual >propulsion systems used. The film was immediately sent to a special >office in the Pentagon designated OSIP (This changes constantly to >avoid detection). We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the >arrival of the craft. Hi Stig, This is a very intruiging report. But why did the Colonel bring it out? I mean if they are still covering up evidence then where does this report come from? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: hvdp | stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:21:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:59:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >From: fuquay@cnquest.com (Duane Fuquay) >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswell Crash - 'Solved' >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:18:38 -0000 >Amazon.Com has copies of "The Roswell Report- Solved" by James McAndrew >published by the GPO in hard cover for $52.00. I read the article in >Popular Mechanics concerning the new Fugo/ Horten's lifting body >explanation and IMHO this is harder to swallow than the extraterrestrial >explanation. The most interesting part of the article was that Popular >Mechanics- a "mainstream" publication- examined the evidence for the Mogul >explanation and decided the Air Force was full of it. >Duane Fuquay Duane- Please note that the site also says that the book is special order, and is not discounted (as almost all of their other books are). The ISBN number they have is apparently incorrect (or simply bogus) and the GPO Order # is 008-070-00719-3. They don't have an ISBN number for it. I called the GPO today and the book is already a month late, and they have no idea when it will be available. The spokesman said it could come in next week, or take another month and a half. It is interesting to note that McAndrews is allegedly saying very little about it. If I learn that it's been released (or is available from the GPO), I will post the information here. The GPO is also able to take credit card information over the phone and ship the book direct. There may really be no need to involve Amazon.com, since there's no discount. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:14:26 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:07:14 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 Hi, everybody. The Richard Lewontin piece I mention in my letter to Barry Greenwood re Carl Sagan appears in NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS, January 9, 1997, pp. 28-32. The title is "Billions and Billions of Demons." If you're interested in reading about Sagan and his relationship to ufologists, the new issue of IUR carries a long piece by Budd Hopkins on his interactions with Sagan over a period of serveral years. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:49:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:49:10 -0400 Subject: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:35:00 PDT >>Date: 10 Jun 97 12:34:02 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >> In my opinion Bruce Maccabee is one of the few people in this field >> who knows what the hell he is talking about, particularly with >> regard to photographic analysis. >> Bob Shell >Sometime in 1985 (or 1986) one Peter Beard submitted four UFO >photographs, taken in the UK, to BUFORA. >BUFORA was a bit suspicious of the photographs, but couldn't be sure that >there was anything wrong with them, so sent them to Bruce Maccabee in the >US for analysis. >After about a year, BM came back to say that he didn't know what the >pictures were showing, but that he was convinced that they were genuine. >During that time, the witness finally admitted to BUFORA that the >pictures were photographs of something which he had cut out and stuck to >his bedroom window. >Robert Bull A _few_ pertinent quotes from MUFON Ontario's 'Review of The Carp/Guardian Case' published in The (then) MUFON Ontario Newsletter - 1994. The 6 part Review is available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/o/oechsler/ "Oechsler used one of of Bruce Maccabee's personal cheques made out for $1,000 (US) which he gave to Osterbrook [the polygraphist] as payment for the testing. "In 1993, 'The Air Report' (Associated Investigator's Report #1) raised the issue of Maccabee's possibly using The Fund for UFO Research's money for personal gain: [quote] Dr. Maccabee has made at least one trip to Ontario to investigate the case. It is not known whether any Fund for UFO Research monies were expended in this investigation. [quote ends]" [snip] "The most important point here is not Oechsler's selling of this material to the television shows 'Unsolved Mysteries' and 'Sightings' but Dr. Maccabee's clear support for the validity of the case. Dr. Maccabee spoke in support of the authenticity of the Guardian video on at least one television program and before the large audience of a UFO conference in Silver Spring, MD." "Richard Hall, the Fund's (for UFO Research) newly elected chairman, also said that he was equally perplexed by some of the UFO cases that Maccabee had promoted such as Gulf Breeze and the "Guardian" case." [snip] "Not just in the mind of the writer of the 'Air Report' but also on the lips of many of ufology's leading lights. Not 'horrible!', just an immense waste of time, energy and money on a patent hoax. And how callous of a man who for many years was trusted and respected by his peers." "Bruce Maccabee's motive and actions throughout the course of Oechsler's investigation are highly suspect and we feel that Maccabee owes an explanation to all those in our field who have trusted his judgment over the years." [snip] "3) Oechsler used his manipulative ability to build a story even though he knew of the circumstances and exactly what was going on and together with Bruce Maccabee, intentionally misled the public, the media and ufology using unethical means, and bad judgement in order to benefit financially and personally."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Use of Radar Targets in 1947 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:54:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:56:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Use of Radar Targets in 1947 Hi John, David, I have thought some more of this issue. General Yates was in charge of the Army weather--more accurately forecasting, aviation weather and research. The Artillery, both Field and Air Defense meteorological sections were organic and not under Yates' control or his normal concern. [Although there is close cooperation in exchange of data.] So Yates is correct when he says the radar targets are rare for meteorogolical work--with his people. However, for artillery firings accurate winds aloft are a must. When it is cloudy, then the radar targets would be pressed into use. In 1947, the Rawin Set, AN-GMD-1, [Army-Navy, Ground Meteorology Device-1] which was an automatic radio tracking device entered the Army inventory. It could track the radio signal from a radiosonde and print out azimuth and elevation angles to the balloon at 0.1 of a minute interval. The radiosonde carried pressure sensors so the height of the balloon was known, then the distance could be simply found by a right triangle formula. (Okay, not so easy because we take the curvature of the earth into account.) From this data wind speeds and directions can be plotted. Anyway, it was a new system completely developed by terrestrial engineers without help from Corso or alien technology which eliminated the need for pesky radar targets. <G> Like any new equipment entering the inventory high priority units got it first. National Guard units would be down at the bottom of the list. So for a while both the radar tracking and Rawin Sets would exist side by side. Radar targets were probably used mainly during cloudy weather. However, there would be an increase of soundings during the summer due to National Guard and Reserve summer camps. Installations that were normally closed or did not usually have meteorological activity like Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, Gowen Field, Idaho, Toole, Utah, Fort McCoy, Wisconsin would have suddenly have balloon releases. Even Regular Army installations would host the National Guard, and, of course, the Guard would train with their equipment. Also, some regular Army installations that normally have no artillery would host such units with the necessary meteorological section. At the time a four to six hour sounding schedule was acceptable. However, if two meteorological sections were involved it would be possible to have sounding every two hours. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Jun 97 08:55:25 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:52:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:44:32 -0400 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? I agree with all of your points except perhaps your first one: >FACT: In or around July 1 through 8, 1947 >SOMETHING crashed near, or on Mac Brazel's >ranch and was subsequently recovered by men >and officers of the 509th Air Bombardment group >located at Roswell U.S.A.A.F. Base. I'm not convinced the actual recovery was by soldiers from the 509th or from RAAF. I think MPs from RAAF were taken out to act as perimeter guards, but the recovery teams were specially trained and brought in from elsewhere. Possibly they were the same teams who had recovered the material near Socorro a month earlier, and that was not their first recovery. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Close Encounters in Roswell From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:58:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:52:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Close Encounters in Roswell >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:18:46 -0700 >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Close Encounters in Roswell >> From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> >> To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Close Encounters in Roswell >> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0700 >> We've put together a package of stories about the Roswell Incident (no >> Fugo balloons, though!) ... and we hope to have more UFO-related >> material as the 50th anniversary nears. Please tune us in at: >Mr. Boyle, > Why are you willing to give Kal Korff's book publicity? Have you >been following his attempts to promote his book through possibly >deceptive means on this list? Have you read the many interesting reviews >of his book? Would you be willing to publish my review of his book to >balance this issue? I'm not sure what happened at Roswell, but I do know >that Kal's book is FULL of errors! >Best Wishes, >Scott K. Hale Dear Scott and all: I invite you to pillory the stories all you want by sending feedback to ufo@msnbc.com. We're publishing a selection of letters - and the selection is not made on the basis of whether you agree with the stories or not. The selection will be based on how pithy and thought-provoking the letters are (that means quick karate blows have a better chance of getting in than slow, torturous - and tortuous - arguments). By the way, as far as I know there's one quote from Korff, in the ninth paragraph of the story. So a multiscreen blow-by-blow review of Korff's book would probably not be used in the feedback section - but definitely the executive summary would have a good chance of getting in. And you can even hyperlink it to your full review on Amazon.com or your home page! Just include the HTML coding in your letter. (Two caveats: We'll add a phrase saying MSNBC is not responsible for the content of the link - and please keep your hyperlinked material suitable for a mass audience ... don't include pictures of naked folks, obscenities, spatter shots or other clearly inappropriate material.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:57:57 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Thu, 12 June 1997 12:033:58 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 Hello, Jerry! You wrote: >Dear Barry: >Unfortunately your response to my letter re Sagan in the new >JUST CAUSE only underscores my point: Sagan was an >uninformed critic of the UFO phonomenon, and your Starry- >eyed defense of him remains inexplicable - unless, as Mike >Swords suggests in the current IUR, ufology does indeed >harbor a death wish. I am in 150% agreement, Jerry. Sagan even had his wife help him to criticize ufology in *his* uninformed way. Sagan knew what he was talking about, regarding astronomy. However, when it came to ufology, he was as ignorant as I have always been, with the study of celestrial bodies. <G> I've wondered if he actually took a good look at ufology as a whole, or if he deliberately found fault with it without exploring the obvious evidence that UFO's exist? If so, I'm curious to know why? Can you give me some input? Jerry, welcome to the list. It's so nice to have you aboard. UFO UpDates - Toronto - has been very interesting, informa- tive and lots of fun. I hope you'll enjoy it, as much as I have in these past few months. I have gathered a bunch of new friends from all walks of life. You'll see for yourself. Truly, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Close Encounters in Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:08:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Close Encounters in Roswell Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:08:17 -0400 From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Close Encounters in Roswell > > To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Close Encounters in Roswell > > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0700 > This material is vintage Kal Korff, in fact Kal who hasn't managed to > respond to David Rudiak's post for almost three weeks here managed to be > the prime source quoted in the lead of MSNBC's article. > Oops I inadvertently deleted MSNBC from my UFO booksmarks! Ah Gary! I think you have uncovered yet another pseudonym for Kal Korff -- alan.boyle@msnbc.com And to think -- there isn't even a "K" in that name! <g> Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: xiannekei | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:57:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:01:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:44:32 -0400 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >I firmly understand the need to get as many >DETAILS confirmed as much as the next person, >however, let's NOT lose sight of the forest. It's time >to let the "Official" arms of the incident at Roswell >try to answer the HARD questions and convince us >of the reasons WHY these questions are there. >Dave (Furry) Furlotte >(Just my two cents again, from a voice in the >wilderness....) Hi Dave Hi Errol, Hi All Firstly Dave "and so say ALL of us!" You are right to many people/researchers get bogged down in minor details, and these minor details can and do get changed as time goes by. Peoples memory either deteriates or gets better as they remember more as they go through it often. More often than not "stories" change because the original was either "spiced up" or "toned down" for what-ever reasons. So what we need to rely on is purely the facts and the "stories" that can be backed up by fact. Its so simple yet some people get carried away. I must say, and this is going to get me disliked by many, is that far too many people "waste" too much time on Roswell. There have been over sixty other crash/retrievals and the like, all of which don't get half the attention that Roswell has got and if any of those had got half the attention that Roswell had got then we well might have some hard evidence on our hands. In My Humble Opinion "we" should move on from Roswell to some other cases and devote just as much time and energy to these other cases to produce some more results that can and will be achieved. the only reason that I can see why researchers still go on about Roswell is that for the first/once and only time the united States Airforce admitted to having a crashed "flying saucer". Finally Roswell is as much "lore" to Ufology as finding the Ark is to some christians. (anology) In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 From: Yellowrose <yelorose@swbell.net> [Amy Hebert] Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:24:19 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:43:55 -0400 Subject: Re: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 >Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 23:30:28 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 6 <snip> >If this hearing is indeed serious, the last thing that should be >allowed is secrecy. We've had enough of that in this field. We need >no more from those who claim to be involved in this field. The whole >thing appears to be a damn piece of fiction to me. Why are we wasting >time on it. Like the man said..."Show me the money!!" >Let's get away from this fairy tale and on to things more immediate. >Don Ledger I heard about this "report" from Dr. Turner when it first came out. She received a copy because she had been asked to contribute her input to the project. Karla and I went round and round about why the report was not being released publicly for all to see. I was so mad I was ready to picket MUFON who I thought had written the report. You're right, Don, we have had enough secrecy! Yellowrose
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Posting Rules From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:46:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:46:29 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: London-Bound From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jun 97 12:09:07 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:01:11 -0400 Subject: Re: London-Bound >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:03:53 -0400 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: London-Bound >To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> Graham wrote; >A full 90-minutes show featuring Timothy Good, >Nick Pope, Stanton >T. Friedman opposite the sceptics & debunkers. Errr...which sceptics and debunkers? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:41:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:55:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Gary, having watched a TV show, writes: > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien > Spaceship' > I really had a laugh when Greg Sandow and others implied that Strom > Thurmond is senile. Its curious that he would like to imply that is > the solution Thurmond having written the Foreword to Corso's book. > However, its funny that good ole supposedly senile Strom (as some > would have us believe) was on television, CSPAN if I recall correctly > a week or so ago - at a press conference celebrating his having > become the oldest Senator, and wouldn't you just know it there he > was in front of the cameras; standing, answering questions > spontaneously, appropriately, intelligently. Gary might like to read the New York Times coverage of Thurmond's most recent campaign. Apparently the citizens of South Carolina elected a man who couldn't remember his opponent's name. Gary then notes: > Age and senility are not synonymous. My gosh, no. Senility is not the issue here. If Thurmond were outright senile, I doubt he could function even as a US senator. But there are many stops short of senility on the train of aging. I'm thinking now of my poor mom, 91 years old, and living in a retirement home. She doesn't remember very much now, but a year ago she could have gone on C-Span and persuaded Gary to elect her to Congress. She pulled herself together magnificently for visitors and public occasions, and then with me and other members of the family would ask questions like "Where am I living?" "What's chinese food?" and -- this one brought a lump to my throat every time she said it -- "Why was I so happily married"? Of course, in Gary's view there's a reason why I'm slandering poor Strom. ?Well I guess the people trying > to discredit Corso will have to come up with a different pile of ... > hypothesis. At least one that is credible, one that doesn't allow > the readers of a character assasination judge for themselves on > televsion in a public forum, the person being discredited. Oi vey. Obviously my slam at poor Strom didn't prevent any reader from forming their own opinion after watching one, count it, one TV show. Gary did exactly that. But what really irks me is the notion that I was trying to discredit Corso. I don't recall saying word one about Corso in my post on Thurmond. Why can't I express an opinion without being dragged into someone else's fight? I have something delicious to close with, but first, on quite another note, Gary asks: > P.S. Please see my post regarding indexing of Ruppelt's book for > reference use. > If anyone can suggest a good indexing program please let me know. Any major word processor can generate an index. You do have to work a little -- you have to choose all the items you want the index to include. But once you're finished, the program generates the index automatically. (Maybe Gary could index "Witnessed" after he finishes Ruppelt. For my IUR piece on the Linda case, I had to look up endless details with no index...grrrrrr.....) And now for dessert. There's a quiet member of our list who lives in South Carolina, and has become my very dear e-mail friend. When the Thurmond mess broke, he sent me this comment, which I'm posting with his permission, for Gary's information and the rest of our amusement: "Actually, Strom, (affectionately known as "Sperm" in these parts), is all rested up from his festival announcements last year in which he congratulated fellow Americans for defeating the pesky Russians at the Alamo. (True fact!) A once staunch defender of public school segregation and all things rotten, this is but a further example of his decline. Seeing as how he will die at his desk - unless of course he is the second coming of Abraham and he out-lives us all - we should be seeing many more of these snafus emanating from his office. However, it brings up a fourth possibility to your three. "Although Sperm doesn't know what's going on, (plenty of evidence for that), a NYC-born, 'sharp-of-an-aide' to his office does. Knowing that a Thurmond written and repudiated foreword adds instant credibility to any book sold outside the state of SC, the aide wheels and deals endorsements, informing Sperm at the last minute and claiming the author lied about the book contents. The book comes out and presto, big success. The author gains sales, Thurmond's reputation with constituents remains intact, (they are equally bizarre, BTW), Thurmond's reputation with everyone else remains unchanged, the aide makes a few extra bucks the NYC way, and everybody is happy. The aforementioned may not be the truth, but it should be. I like it. <BG>" Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: Tora! Tora! Tora! From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:04:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Tora! Tora! Tora! > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:52:54 -0400 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: AH SO.... > To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> > A gentleman called in at our office the other day and happened to mention > that he had seen a TV re-run of the old Hollywood movie entitled Tora! > Tora! Tora! - which dealt with the sneak attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor. > The man said that at the start of the movie, there is a scene where > US intelligence officers are gathered in an office and on a notice board is > chalked various code-names, signals traffic etc. Graham, As I recall from WW-2 history 'Majestic' was a codename for part of the planned/anticipated US invasion of Japan in late 1945 or early 46 which was called operation Olympic. Fortunatly for everybody including the 300 thousand to million US troop that were expected to be killed during that, we dropped the A-bomb and that ended that. I do know that Gen. Kurt LeMay always felt that if he had been allowed to continue to firebomb Japans citys, he felt that would have ended the war by Nov-Dec 1945. I have also seen some documentation that indicates that the Japanese actually test fired their own nuclear bomb in a Korean inlet just after Hiroshima but before Nagasaki and were planning to use it on the US fleet and or a one way mission to get some kind of negotiated peace. Cheers, Robert Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jun 97 13:06:07 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:14:00 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:08:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: JUST CAUSE #50 and Welcome! Linda, The possibility exists, of course, that Sagan was successor to Menzel on MJ-12, and was in on the secret, and part and parcel of the coverup. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 DISPATCH #56 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 03:38:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:57:50 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #56 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #56 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 6/14/97 Quote of the Week "The crime that I think he did was one of hatred against the government. And we as a government reacted with hatred." -- Oklahoma City resident Bud Welch, whose daughter died in the blast, detailing why he was opposed to the death penalty for McVeigh. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Not enough flesh for feasting" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Dr. Sanyo" asks us what would happen in a nightmare scenario of bloody demonic invasion. (We're not sure why he's asking us, though.) Enjoy! "What if demons cam up from hell and cursed the world with some thing that made you bleed every time you moved and thay took the corpses back to hell and fested apone there roting flesh as a sacrifice to there dark savior. and he got angrie because thay didint get enough flesh to satisfy his hunger for violance and distruction. so thay came back except with an even worse curse that made every one feast on each other for all eternaty and hunger for there own flesh and blood." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ inTERRORgation: CIA's Secret Manual on Coercive Questioning We've all had instances when interrogating a possible terrorist, drug dealer or just plain old subversive when we need to get that fella to talk. But how? Never fear! ParaScope has now reprinted the CIA's "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation Manual" from 1963. This astounding document is reprinted verbatim with analysis and criticism by our own Dossier editor, Jon Elliston. In it you'll find such gems as: the theory of coercion, deprivation of sensory stimuli, narcosis, threats and fear, the interrogation checklist, pain, debility and even the always helpful detection of malingering. You'll soon be able to order this shocking reprint of one of our government's most shameful documents online, but in the meantime, you can get an advance copy by sending a check or money order for $5.95. (Postage is included at that incredibly low cost!) Make checks payable to ParaScope and send to: ParaScope Interrogation Manual P.O. Box 6 Chapel Hill, NC 27514 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Ladies & Gentlemen, Start Your Search Engines If you're one of the many people that often writes us asking where to find an article we published months earlier, you can save yourself the trouble of writing us (and us the trouble of answering you) by going straight to our search engines. That's right, both our AOL and web sites have fantastic search engines that allow you to search by keyword for exactly the ParaScope article you're looking for. (For instance, a search for "goatsucker" yields 21 articles!) Both sites have links to the search engines right on the main pages. On a related note, if you have a favorite search engine on the web that you like to use, you can help others find ParaScope more easily by writing the webmaster or review editor of that search engine and asking them to list or review ParaScope. Many search engines will let you submit your own review. Help us out! Make sure we're listed in your favorite web search engine! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Featured Chat: Earthbound Spirit Entities What is an "entity" and do they exist? Why are "entities" present on the earth? Do we have a responsibility to help them be released from their earthbound presence? How does one become earthbound after death and what can we do to help our loved ones "find the light?" Join PSCP Ghost as we talk about earthbound spirit entities in the Grassy Knoll, Monday June 16th from 7-9pm ET. Also, join us in the Crop Circle, ParaScope's web-based chat room every Saturday night at 9pm ET for great times and good conversation. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, June 16: Update -- The Lesotho Incident Some weeks ago ParaScope brought you an extensive report on the alleged crash of a possibly extraterrestrial craft in southern Africa. According to secret South African military and police documents leaked to German ufologists, a UFO crashed in South Africa in 1995 and extraterrestrial entities were removed from the site. Get the latest word on the controversial Lesotho investigation, courtesy of Joachim Koch and Hans-Jurgen Kyborg. --------------------------------- Tuesday, June 17: My Visit With James Earl Ray "James Earl Ray , inmate # 65477, slowly rises from his state-issued hospital wheelchair to shake my extended hand, almost as soon as I entered the make-shift visiting room..." For months, ParaScope has been closely following the new ballistics tests on the rifle which prosecutors say was used to assassinate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The question of James Earl Ray's guilt has been widely debated, but what does Ray himself think of all this? In this special report, guest writer Mike Gabriel shares a recent visit with the ailing Ray and offers a first-hand look at the man who prosecutors claim put a fatal bullet in one of America's greatest civil rights leaders. --------------------------------- Wednesday, June 18: James Earl Ray Rifle Evidence Day Update The big day is finally here: the results of new tests on the rifle allegedly used to murder Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. will be presented in court on June 18. The defense has SOMETHING, but they won't say what until the hearing. Find out if Ray's defense was able to prove that he was framed, nearly thirty years after King's assassination. Is this the crack in the dam of tyranny that we've been waiting for? --------------------------------- Thursday, June 19: Cracking "The Bible Code" In Michael Drosnin's new book, "The Bible Code," the author claims to have used computer analysis to crack a code within the Bible which foretells 20th-century assassinations such as Yitzhak Rabin's killing and the 1969 moon landing. But are his methods sound? Mathematicians and religious scholars contest his work, so what's the real deal on this Biblical code-cracker? What about predicted events that are yet to come? --------------------------------- Friday, June 20: Project Blue Book: Air Force Eyes on the Skies Okay, sure, you watched that TV show called Project Blue Book when you were a kid, you have a vague idea of what Blue Book was all about. But how much do you REALLY know about the Air Force's longest-running effort to study the UFO phenomenon, and the history behind it all? Find out everything you ever wanted to know about Blue Book, from its early roots in Project Sign to its demise, and check out an interactive map of Blue Book's unsolved sightings. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 NYT: Front Page -- For UFO Buffs, 50 Years of Hazy From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:12:07 -0400 Subject: NYT: Front Page -- For UFO Buffs, 50 Years of Hazy For UFO Buffs, 50 Years of Hazy History By AMY HARMON ROSWELL, N.M. -- Squint hard enough against the bright desert sun, true believers say, and you cannot help but make it out -- the burn where the spaceship crashed against the red-streaked rock, the dent like a giant heel print that it left in the bluff, the protrusion off to the right where military policemen found the alien holding a small black box on that fateful July morning in 1947. Hub Corn, whose sheep ranch happens to contain the site of the most momentous event in the hazy history of flying saucers, charges $15 for a viewing. But he doesn't give his visitors the hard sell. He doesn't have to. "When I first started doing this I was afraid in my own mind that people weren't really getting what they wanted," Corn said. "I felt like everybody that come out would want to see a spacecraft, or at least some material. But people seem happy just to be here. They seem happy to believe." Or at least WILLING to believe. Fifty years after what has become known in ufology circles as the "Roswell Incident," America's fascination with unidentified flying objects has never been more intense, or as widespread. More than 100,000 sky watchers and conspiracy enthusiasts are expected to attend the golden anniversary celebration here during the first week of July, according to event organizers. Festivities will include an all-night "rave" dance party at the Corn ranch and a soapbox derby-style race of homemade alien vehicles. Such summer merriment in the desert, where temperatures can rise to 110 degrees, is testament to the emergence of a mainstream belief in UFOs. A recent Gallup Poll found that 42 percent of American college graduates believe that flying saucers have visited Earth in some form. In a measure of the shift in public attitudes, a Roper Center survey two decades ago found that 30 percent of college graduates believed in UFOs. Thousands of Americans have reported being abducted by aliens in recent years. And John Mack, a psychiatry professor at Harvard Medical School who was subjected to a harsh review by the school in 1995 after publishing his view that many of these reports are true, is gaining adherents and will be a keynote speaker at the Roswell weekend. Mack survived the review by his peers uncensured, and in August nearly 200 mental health professionals are expected to attend a conference that he will convene to discuss alien abductions. Attribute it to concern over the approaching millennium or anxiety over technology that advances faster than a layman can understand. Chalk it up to the public's suspicion of official Washington. Whatever the causes, the long-held tenets of the flying saucer buffs -- aliens are visiting us, and the government knows it and is covering it up -- now permeate the public consciousness and the popular culture. The hit television series "The X-Files" features two agents of the FBI looking into just such a cover-up. At least five alien-theme movies are scheduled for release in the next few months as producers hope to repeat the success of last summer's "Independence Day," in which the U.S. military finally coughs up the Roswell alien just in time to save Earth from an invasion by the creature's angry relatives. And Art Bell, whose syndicated late-night radio show on UFOs once drew only the paranormal faithful, now consistently ranks as the nation's fourth most popular radio talk show host, behind only Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura Schlessinger and Howard Stern. "There are millions of Americans who probably know more about aliens than they do about thermodynamics," said Benson Saler, a Brandeis University anthropology professor and co-author, with Charles Ziegler, an anthropologist, of "UFO Crash at Roswell," soon to be published by the Smithsonian Institution Press. Saler sums up the common wisdom this way: "We know what they look like -- they're tall and slender with huge heads and almond eyes. And the hope is that these beings with superior technology will enter into communion with us and help solve our problems." The book maintains that the Roswell story has all the elements of a modern myth, serving as an expression of anti-government sentiment and the age-old yearning to believe we are not alone in the universe. Scientists and skeptics -- the late astronomer Carl Sagan most prominent among them -- have warned that the embrace of pseudoscientific ideas like alien visitation and abduction threatens to undermine the critical thinking by an educated public that a democratic society requires. And critics point to the recent suicide of 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult, who believed a spaceship traveling behind a comet would carry them to the "next level," as a tragic result of the blurring of science and science fiction. But even as science relentlessly unravels life's greatest mysteries, it may be hard to dispel the popular belief in superior technological beings -- whose very existence is beyond the means of our own scientists to verify or debunk. For some, aliens replace or augment conventional religious beliefs. "One of the things that attracts me to this whole realm is that it's something that we don't know," said Katherine Heenan, a 34-year-old doctoral candidate at the University of Connecticut, discussing on an Internet e-mail list her belief that aliens have probably visited Earth. "Technology changes so rapidly -- the things we used to believe we no longer believe," she said. "I was raised to believe in God, but I don't believe what I was raised to believe in." Like most legends, the Roswell tale traces its genesis to a real event. In early July 1947, a ranch foreman, W.W. Brazel, found strange, shiny material littering the ground near Roswell, in southeastern New Mexico. He turned the material over to the sheriff, who gave it to the military authorities at the air base here. On July 8 of that year the Army Air Forces, which later that month became the Air Force, a separate service under the newly established Department of Defense, issued a news release about the landing of a "flying disk." This resulted in a headline in the local newspaper, The Roswell Daily Record, that said, "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region." Military officials recanted the next day, calling the curious debris merely a downed weather balloon. With that, the matter was largely forgotten until the early 1980s, when the first of more than a dozen books on the subject was published. Colored by post-Watergate cynicism and fueled by the advent of popular television docudrama series like "Unsolved Mysteries," these versions of the Roswell story variously held that Brazel, who by then had died, was harassed into abetting what was said to be a government cover-up; that the crippled craft crashed on what is now Corn's land, and that the military retrieved three to five alien bodies, which may now be stored in another stronghold of UFO lore, the Area 51 military installation in Nevada. In 1994, aiming to defuse speculation about what happened at Roswell, the Air Force issued a 1,000-page report disclosing that what it had claimed was a weather balloon was in fact a classified experiment designed to detect nuclear tests conducted by the Soviet Union. But for a suspicious populace -- 71 percent of Americans polled by Gallup say they believe the government knows more about UFOs than it lets on -- the Air Force report did little to deter the cover-up theorists. "People would panic if they knew the truth," said Jill Headstream, 44, a legal assistant from Austin, Texas, who had made her second pilgrimage to the UFO Museum and Research Center here. "It might be like, if we're not the only ones, why do we live the way we do? Why do we have the kind of government we do?" But the most persuasive evidence for many museum visitors are the statements in books and videos of Roswell residents and retired military employees who say they took part in the events as they unfolded. Walter Haut, who was the public relations officer at the Roswell base in 1947 and still resides in the same house where he lived when he wrote the famous news release, is a bit bemused by all the recent attention. "The 25th anniversary in 1972, nobody noticed," he said. Haut, now 75, continues to argue that his original news release was on the mark. "I think something extraterrestrial fell out of the sky and landed on a ranch north of Roswell in 1947," Haut said. "But I have to tell everyone that asks, none of my knowledge is first-hand." In a recently released book, "The Day After Roswell," (Pocket Books, 1997) Philip J. Corso, who served on the National Security Council under President Dwight D. Eisenhower, contends that he personally directed an Army project that transferred to the military various types of technology -- including fiber optics and a microchip -- recovered from the alien ship that crashed in the desert. Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., chairman of the Armed Forces Committee, wrote the foreword to the book by Corso, a former Thurmond aide. But after the book's release, aides to Thurmond said he regretted having been associated with it. The senator, they said, had understood he was writing the foreword to a Corso memoir about his career in military intelligence. Thurmond issued a statement criticizing the book's claim of a government conspiracy to cover up an alien visitation. "I know of no such 'cover-up,' " the senator said, "and do not believe one existed." The nation's interest in UFOs began at the dawn of the atomic age, when fears over the Cold War and anxieties about new doomsday technologies coincided with thousands of reported sightings in the years that followed the Roswell incident. Aliens, the thinking went, must have figured out a better way -- an assumption perhaps best expressed in the 1951 movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still." In the film, a flying saucer lands in Washington and its pilot warns that unless the people of Earth learn to use atomic power for peaceful purposes, the planet -- and even the galaxy -- would be destroyed. The aliens of today's postmodern pop culture are not always so pure of motive. "What's happening is science and technology have accelerated to a point where they may be beyond our ability to comprehend," said Chris Carter, creator of "The X-Files," whose aliens appear to be conspiring with shadowy elements of the federal government in a diabolical secret project. "We need mysteries, we need stories, we need something beyond the temporal," Carter said. Of course, many of those publicizing and perpetuating the Roswell myth are also making money from it. That includes the city itself, which even before it caught the 50th anniversary fever, had made a cottage industry of extraterrestrial refrigerator magnets and stuffed alien dolls. Motel owners say that about one-fourth of their bookings are alien-related. ("Crash here" reads a sign on the Super 8 motel on Main Street.) "Do I believe it?" said New Mexico's tourism secretary, John Garcia, who was here early in June to help plan the July festivities. "Sure I believe it -- all the way to the bank." Copyright 1997 The New York Times
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 14 BWW Media Alert 970613...sort of From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:35:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:47:37 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970613...sort of Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) NOTE: I've been travelling a lot this week, and am too out of time and energy to get one together for this week. I'll give you the header I had so far, and then Rebecca Keith's excellent Media Watch for this week. I am reproducing it here per her release at the end, but she is entitled to all the credit. Once again, I just didn't want to leave you without anything. I can recommend subscribing to CNI NEWS, which is sort of the parent organization for the Media Watch (not the Media Alert, which is mine). Their website: http://www.cninews.com. I do hope to get something out myself this week... June 13, 1997 First, let me say that someone pointed out an error I made last time: always happy to point those out. I mistyped 1947 as 1997, which had me saying that the "first flying saucer" sighing hadn't happened yet. This weekly stuff doesn't give me much time for proof-reading, but I appreciate it when other people let me know. If you want to get your opinion to me on "the most significant UFO event of the past fifty years" I will accept them through this coming Wednesday, June 18. I have to formalize a format since a number of people have named a couple of things and then sort of left it up to me to pick, which doesn't work. I'll let you "split" your single vote between up to four events. If you pick two as "most significant", then each one will get one half of a vote. You may also name up to ten "honorable mentions". I'll put these into a special, separate category. They'll get mentioned, but won't be counted in the tally. Here's a "form" to help structure it: _____________________________________ The most significant UFO event of the past fifty years is ______________________ (you get one vote here, but you may split it up to four ways) My honorable mentions (up to ten) are __________________ ______________________________________ THE SECTION BELOW THIS IS ALL THE MEDIA WATCH, REPRODUCED HERE FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE. CNI News Media Watch Volume 31.2 -- June 13, 1997 Compiled and Edited by Rebecca Keith MEDIA WATCH is the CNI News weekly preview of CNI-related television, radio, film and print media. MEDIA WATCH is updated every Friday and covers the week from Saturday to Friday. Take it! It's free! Welcome to Media Watch. This edition covers the week of Saturday, June 14 to Friday, June 20, 1997. THIS, THAT and the OTHER... Warner Bros. has announced that the opening date for "Conspiracy Theory" has changed. Scheduled to open on July 25, the flick has now been pushed back to Aug. 8. Apparently the move was made so that it would not have to compete with "Air Force One," the Harrison Ford action pic that has gotten great reviews with test audiences. "Conspiracy Theory" stars Mel Gibson as a paranoid ufologist who discovers... oh, wait a minute... Gibson plays a paranoid taxi driver who discovers a REAL conspiracy which causes him to be harassed by the FBI. Could have been a ufologist, though. <g> Gillian Anderson has at last signed on for the X-Files movie which will be released next summer. Reportedly the film will pick up where the series leaves off. May 1998 will bring the last new television episode of Chris Carter's popular program. Reruns of the series have been snapped up for syndication on the F/X network. Hope F/X makes it into more homes soon. More book info at the end of Media Watch, but I just wanted to report that rumors of yet another Roswell book by Air Force Captain James McAndrew are confusing at best. "Roswell Report: Case Solved" is listed on the www.amazon.com website as being released this past April from the Government Printing Office, but as of now it is still not available. I contacted McAndrew by phone, and he would neither confirm nor deny that he was involved in the book. One usually reliable source says the book contains the real story of the Roswell crash -- some type of balloon device involving a flying wing, and Japanese pilots. I find this incredibly hard to believe for several reasons. Meanwhile, the GPO seems to know nothing about the book other than the fact that it does exist and should be out pretty soon. Captain James McAndrew was involved in the last work from the USAF on the Roswell crash, also printed by the GPO. That 1995 tome, which put forth the infamous Mogul Balloon theory, was said to be the last and final word from the USAF on the subject. Guess not. By the way, some of this is discussed in the current (July) issue of Popular Mechanics magazine, now on newsstands. DISCLAIMER: Please bear in mind that I am only human, and I do make mistakes. Show times and descriptions are not set in stone. The networks have a right to change anything they want -- and believe me, they do change things! Please check your local listings for times in your area. SYNDICATED TV... Check local listings or the web for times and stations in your area. "Babylon 5" Garibaldi (Jerry Doyle) betrays Sheridan and takes him prisoner on Mars; the crew of Sheridan's old ship, the Agamemnon, joins the Resistance. "Baywatch Nights" Mitch and Ryan share different opinions about who, or what, is behind the theft of a priceless collection of Egyptian artifacts, until they stumble upon a tomb beneath the streets of L.A. "Gordon Elliott" Unusual Occurrences is a repeat of an earlier episode. My version lists this program as airing on Monday or Tuesday. Check your listings. "Psi Factor" Week of 6/9: The Transient: When a series of strange, frightening and ultimately deadly incidents suggest that a dybbuk -- an ancient demon -- is invading the souls of innocent people, the O.S.I.R. sets out to stop it and save its next, most likely victim. Two Lost Old Men: The O.S.I.R. takes on that strange case of two elderly men, Doug Kilmartin and Barry Strother, who claim to actually be in their 20s, but also say they have suddenly, inexplicably aged 50 years after passing through a barren "dead zone" in a local forest. "Star Trek: Deep Space 9" The fifth season closes with a tense confrontation that finds the crew surrendering DS9 to the Dominion-Cardassian alliance. As enemy forces build up near Federation space, Sisko realizes an invasion of the Alpha Quadrant is imminent. His plan -- mining the entrance to the wormhole to cut off Jem'Hadar ships -- is quickly discovered, prompting an attack on the station. Meanwhile, Odo and Kira agree to put their relationship "distractions" on hold until after the crisis; Jake stays behind to write about the war for the Federation News Service; and Dax replies to Worf's marriage proposal. "Star Trek: Voyager" While shuttling a group of telepathic aliens to their homeworld, Torres experiences extremely realistic dreams, which she begins to realize may represent an actual occurrence involving a series of murders that seem genocidal. "Strange Universe" Airs 5 days a week. Check the Strange Universe web site for program updates. Monday: Psychics; Tuesday: Canadian UFO Sightings; Wednesday: Sophisticated Fallout Shelter; Thursday: Melting of a polar ice cap; Friday: Angels. DAILY TV LISTINGS... All times are Eastern Time Zone. SATURDAY 6/14 1:00 pm TNT [repeats Sunday at 2:15 am] -- "Zone Troopers" In WWII Italy, GIs discover an alien spaceship and some extraterrestrial allies as they battle Nazis. From 1986. 2:00 pm A&E -- "20th Century with Mike Wallace" A flawed oxygen tank aboard Apollo 13 explodes, wrecking the flight crew's life support system. This is the real story of the third mission to land on the moon in April 1970 when NASA struggled to save three astronauts and a doomed craft from becoming lost in space. 2:00 pm DSC (Discovery) -- "Mysterious World" Tunguska Explosion of 1908. 2:00 pm SciFi -- "Deep Red" A detective (Michael Biehn) must prevent an evil scientist from obtaining an alien protein that ensures immortality. 3:00 pm DSC -- "Discovery News" A news program providing in-depth coverage of the week's top stories in the fields of medicine, space, archaeology, geology, paleontology, computers, forensic science, biology, environmental science, and natural and man-made disasters. 6:00 pm DSC -- "Discover Magazine" See how the senses of animals are opening new vistas to humans. Also: sensitivity to magnetic and electric fields in sharks and humans; and remote sensing devices that help archeologists and paleontologists. 7:00 pm A&E -- "Mysteries of the Bible" Originally, the Ten Commandments didn't mean the same things as they do today. How was adultery different in the ancient world? And what did it mean to honor your father and mother? This documentary looks at these intriguing questions. 7:00 pm SciFi -- "The Blob" Innocent little horror flick, with young Steve(n) McQueen trying to dissolve the slimy creature wiggling havoc on a small Pennsylvania town. 8:00 pm ABC -- "Lois & Clark" The series comes to a close on a high note with the possibility of a superbaby for Lois and her Man of Steel. But conceiving won't be easy for the "biologically incompatible" couple, who nevertheless refuse to give up trying. "We have come through almost every conceivable disaster, usually by inconceivable means," remarks Lois. So, the pair turns to Lois's father, a doctor "on the cutting edge of science," for help. Meanwhile, a telekinetic ex-con, Dr. "Fat Head" Mensa, turns his own mind into a deadly weapon. 9:00 pm SciFi [repeats at 1:30 am] -- "The Blob" Graphic remake of the 1958 cult classic about a mass of predacious protoplasm. 11:45 pm HBO -- "Perversions of Science" New series on HBO. In a futuristic world, a criminal is apprehended and banished -- to a place known as Earth. 2:00 am TLC -- "Real America: 48 Hours" Psychics and spies. SUNDAY 6/15 2:00 pm SciFi [also early Monday morning at 2:00 am] -- "Sightings" 1993 UFO encounter in England; Part 2 of Dr. Edgar Mitchell, NASA Astronaut and author of "The Way of the Explorer;" Haunted School; Lake Monster in Argentina; and Mars Mission. 5:00 pm A&E -- "The Unexplained" Examining mysteries surrounding several crystal skulls that are said to have healing and other supernatural powers. Included is the story of one found in the 1920s by a British explorer searching for the lost city of Atlantis. 7:00 pm A&E -- "Ancient Mysteries" An examination of some of the mysteries surrounding witches through the ages. Includes a look at their secret powers and the medieval witch trials of Europe. 7:00 pm FOX -- "Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction?" The bond between a boy and his dog; e-mail from a dead man that halts a fraudulent estate hearing; unexplainable vandalism at a cemetery. 8:00 pm CBS -- "Touched by an Angel" On the eve of his 20th anniversary as a teacher, a disheartened man questions the significance of his career and goes through hell before finding an answer. 8:00 pm NBC -- "3rd Rock from the Sun" Dick decides to show Mary how funny he is after she asks another professor to emcee a fund-raiser she's organizing. 9:00 pm FOX -- "X-Files" Mulder can't explain why he was able to find a cult leader's hiding place when members of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms couldn't. But one of the leader's wives claims she and Mulder were on the property in a past life. 10:00 pm CNN -- "Fire from the Sky" Asteroids, comets and meteors are examined by astronomers and physicists. 10:15 TNT [again at 2:30 am Monday morning] -- "The Dead Zone" Horror master Stephen King's tale of a teacher (Christopher Walken) who awakens from a five-year coma with supernatural powers. 11:35 am SHO -- "Outer Limits" Following a biochemical war that has left the populace producing unhealthy children, a couple elude a mysterious government agency intent on using their healthy newborn to repopulate the planet. 11:50 pm MAX -- "Night of the Creeps" Campy chiller about three college kids and a detective who are up against slug-like extraterrestrials. MONDAY 6/16 11:30 am HBO [also tonight at 8:30 pm; Thursday at 4:15 pm and early Friday at 12:30 am] -- "Independence Day" While promoting his 1994 film "Stargate," director Roland Emmerich was asked if he believed in aliens. He responded that he believed in "the great 'what if.' What if enormous spaceships hovered over every single city in the world?" And then Emmerich said to partner Dean Devlin, "I think I've got our next movie." The result -- this 1996 megahit pitting humankind against an alien invasion -- is propelled by a hotshot fighter pilot (Will Smith) and a combat-vet President (Bill Pullman), who evoke the bravura of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo from "Star Wars." 1:00 pm SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" Origin of the Universe: theories about how the whole thing started. Chicago Ghosts: weird hauntings in the Windy City. Past Life Regression: do we live more than one life? actual on-camera regression session. 2:00 pm COM -- "Soap" One of my favorite episodes of this "camp" classic series. Burt sees a UFO! 8:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" In Part 2 of "In Search of Human Origins," host Donald Johanson examines the implications of his discovery of the "Lucy" skeleton, and efforts to determine how this human ancestor could live "among creatures much stronger and more powerful than she." Also: the debate over whether or not early humans were hunters; how the helplessness of human newborns may have led to the development of the family unit. 8:00 pm SciFi -- "seaQuest DSV" With his sights set on gaining control of seaQuest's nuclear weapons, a powerful psychic plants a common nightmare in Piccolo and Dagwood's minds and wangles an invitation on board to interpret their dream. 8:00 pm SHO -- "Species" Tongue-in-cheek sci-fi thriller about a failed genetic experiment that mutates into the form of a woman (Natasha Henstridge) whose killer looks -- and instincts -- threaten the human race. Roger Donaldson directed. 10:10 pm DIS -- "Batteries Not Included" Delightful fantasy with Jessica Tandy and Hume Cronyn, about an elderly couple who are about to be evicted from their home and business by a ruthless landlord, but are saved by miniature UFOs. This is a fun movie. 11:45 pm DIS -- "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" Steven Spielberg's vision of an awe-inspiring meeting between humans and extraterrestrials. For all its spectacle and speculation, this 1977 film remains the story of two ordinary Midwesterners (Richard Dreyfuss and Melinda Dillon) who are transformed by their extraordinary encounter with visitors from outer space. TUESDAY 6/17 1:00 pm SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" Math & Mysticism: visualizing sound-waves. Wyoming Prison Ghost: An executed mass murderer wreaks havoc in the prison where he died. Aura Reading: How to read auras, & what they reveal. 8:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" "In Search of Human Origins" concludes with attempts to discover how Homo habilis ("handyman") evolved into Homo sapiens. Included: how the use of fire (for warmth) turned early Africans into "a people on the move," migrating to southern Asia and, from there, to Europe; the riddle of the Neanderthals, who lived in Ice Age Europe for 200,000 years and were either modern humanity's ancestors or an "evolutionary dead end." WEDNESDAY 6/18 1:00 pm SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" Haunted Hollywood Part 1: Are many of Tinseltown's legends still hanging around? Tarot Reading: can Tarot cards tell us about our pasts, present, and futures? Marian Visions: sightings of the Virgin Mary and other religious miracles. 2:00 pm COM -- "Soap" More UFOs as the aliens hold Burt captive! 8:00 pm SciFi -- "seaQuest DSV" The crew ends its second tour of duty with an explosive interplanetary cliffhanger that leaves the fate of Bridger and company in question. SeaQuest is captured by an alien spacecraft and transported to Hyberion, a submerged planet. Once there, the crew is drawn into a civil war between the rapacious Kray'Taks and the Hyberion resistance, led by Bridger's friend Tobias LeConte. The consequences could be devastating if the Kray'Taks are victorious: their next target is Earth. 8:00 pm UPN -- "The Sentinel" Jim finds a radioactive jewelry charm while investigating a Russian Mafia murder. But the charm's owner flees when Jim and Blair track him down to warn him of the danger. 8:05 pm TBS [again early Thursday at 1:05 am] -- "Alien" Oscar-winning special effects stretch the tension in this Gothic tale of an interstellar cargo ship terrorized by a monstrous stowaway. 10:00 pm SciFi [also later at 2:00 am] -- "Sightings" Segments include reports of a UFO sighting at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio; an analysis of the Jovian moon Europa and its potential to support life; and a tale of the supernatural from Chicago. 11:00 pm HBO [episode airs again at 12:45 am late Friday/early Saturday] -- "Perversions of Science" A conceited woman travels back in time to meet her perfect mate, but learns egotists aren't happy giving love to someone other than themselves. THURSDAY 6/19 3:00 am WGN -- "The Andromeda Strain" Robert Wise directed this thriller about an alien microorganism that decimates a town overnight -- and threatens the world. 1:00 pm SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" Haunted Hollywood Part 2: more ghostly goings-on in the film capital. Astrology: how people use astrology AND numerology. Kambucha Mushroom: Amazing results from this fungal "tea" as a healing element. 9:00 pm A&E [repeats at 1:00 am] -- "Ancient Mysteries" A visit to sites that have been revered by prophets and holy men throughout history. Includes Easter Island, Machu Picchu, Chaco Canyon, and Jerusalem. 10:00 pm A&E [repeats at 2:00 am]-- "The Unexplained" "Prophets and Doom" looks at events that are said to have been predicted, including the 1968 assassination of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., and an Israeli airlift of Ethiopian Jews. Narrator: Pete Stacker. 11:30 pm DIS -- "The Cat from Outer Space" Fanciful Disney fare about a space-traveling feline forced to make an emergency landing on Earth. FRIDAY 6/20 1:00 pm SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" Magic on Wheels: a blindfolded drive thru Universal Studios using other sensory perceptions. Starstruck Spirits: Even more ghost activity in Hollywood (a scary place in more ways than one!) My Favorite Pleiadian: A man who claims his father is an alien. 8:00 pm FOX -- "Sliders" The sliders land in a world resembling ancient Egypt, where Quinn is used for a life-after-death experiment, and the others are entombed inside a pyramid guarded by a giant scarab. 8:30 pm TLC [repeats at 11:30 pm]-- "Legends of the Isles" The Leprechauns, or "little people," were supposedly driven underground when the Celts came to Ireland. These mythical creatures had company in creatures such as Kelpies and Banshees. 8:30 pm UPN -- "Homeboys from Outer Space" When Amma falls ill with the fatal tropical disease pina colitis, Andy shrinks the Hoopty, Ty and Morris, and injects them into her bloodstream to battle the virus. 9:00 pm DSC -- "Discovery News" A news program providing in-depth coverage of the week's top stories in the fields of medicine, space, archaeology, geology, paleontology, computers, forensic science, biology, environmental science, and natural and man-made disasters. 11:00 pm SHO -- "Outer Limits" When the crew of a space station dies, their captain is accused of their murders, but he insists a sinister force was at work. ON THE RADIO... "Sightings on the Radio" with Jeff Rense Formerly known as "End of the Line," Jeff's show is really picking up steam now that the "Sightings" TV people and the Premier radio network are solidly behind him. Jeff anticipates the show will penetrate many major city markets in the coming months. Six nights a week, he interviews guests on topics ranging from investigation of UFOs and aliens to political intrigues and scandals to health and alternative medicine. CNI News editor Michael Lindemann is a regular guest every Wednesday night, doing a UFO news update. The show airs 9-11 pm Eastern time weeknights, and 11pm to 2am Eastern time on Sundays. If unavailable in your broadcast area, you can hear the show via Sightings on Radio on Audionet. Archived shows are also available. I suggest going to the website and listening to an archive show while you go about other work on your computer! Jeff has a great program. Art Bell's "Coast to Coast" Airs Monday - Friday at 2:00 am ET on many stations. Topics include just about anything. Guests are becoming more prevalent on the show but that tends to run in cycles. To hear Coast to Coast via the internet go to Art Bell on Audionet. "Dreamland" Art Bell hosts a 3 hour program on Sunday evenings beginning at 10 pm ET. The program starts with a 15-20 minute segment with Linda Howe. Art then usually interviews a guest for 2 hours before he opens the phones for callers. Check out Art Bell's Home Page for additonal information. AT THE NEWSSTAND... "Time" magazine for the week of June 23rd (on the stands Monday) is rumored to have a lengthy article about Roswell. Hopefully, it will be better than the one running in the July issue of "Popular Mechanics." Col. Philip Corso's book "The Day After Roswell" is now in bookstores. I am still trying to give this book a chance. But I'm up to chapter 2 and I'm not real impressed. So far, it's reading like a bad romance novel. No, there's no romantic trysts in the book yet, it's the "It was a dark and stormy night..." writing style which doesn't please me. Chances are you will be hearing more and more about this controversial book which put Col. Corso at the center of the greatest discoveries of mankind. Corso claims to have distributed debris from the UFO crash at Roswell to American companies such as IBM, Hughes, Bell Labs and Dow Corning, who then developed many of the greatest inventions ever -- integrated circuit chips, fiber optics, lasers, and so on -- based on the alien debris. And Corso was just a draftee from a small town in Pennsylvania. Color me skeptical. Pocket Books. ISBN: 0-671-00461-1 If you don't want to go to the bookstore, you can order online. "Beyond Roswell" by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle has now arrived on the shelves of your local bookstores. The book covers everything from the alien autopsy to the Proto-Phoenician alphabet. Maybe I'm biased, but I haven't been impressed with Hesemann and Mantle's "research" of the autopsy film, and I think the film is a hoax anyway, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that I don't like the book. But I invite you to make up your own mind. The book is riddled with errors -- admitted to by the authors, who claim the publisher didn't make the corrections they turned in. Publish by Marlowe and Company. ISBN 1-56924-781-1 See y'all next week Rebecca Keith XianneKei@aol.com ============================================= Media Watch is a weekly publication of CNI News, compiled and edited by Rebecca Keith and copyright 1997 by CNI News. Permission granted to reproduce and distribute on the condition that the entire text is included without alteration or omission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM>[Peter Brookesmith] Date: 14 Jun 97 20:20:21 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:12:41 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 The Duke of Mendoza presents some more compliments. Hell, why not. >Date: 14 Jun 97 13:06:07 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >>From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] >>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:08:44 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: JUST CAUSE #50 and Welcome! >Linda, >The possibility exists, of course, that Sagan was successor >to Menzel on MJ-12, and was in on the secret, and part and parcel >of the coverup. >Bob In that case the possibility may also exist that Queen Elizabeth II has been chairperson of MJ-12 since 1977, when she was elected to the position as part of her Silver Jubilee celebrations. She knows or has known everyone worth knowing in world politics, and can surely keep a secret. Such as that there is an alien that has been kept captive in Glamis Castle since the 18th century. But, I mean *seriously*, while everyone should congratulate Bob on his coming out as ufology's newest and sharpest comedian, the question that exercises me (apart from how long it will take Stan Fried Person to reveal to a suitably astonished world that Sagan wrote the first draft of all his books in Japanese) is who has taken Sagan's place at the Cover-Up Organization & Skiffle Group's High Table? Anyone wanna make some guesses? Anything's possible! P. Mendoza Blacksmoke (managed two Ks this time!) Agent Provocateur, Ordre Nouveau du Monde Hon. Sec., Dennis Stacy Appreciation Society [Peter Brookesmith]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:23:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:08:35 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 > >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] > >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:08:44 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: JUST CAUSE #50 and Welcome! > > Linda, > > The possibility exists, of course, that Sagan was successor > to Menzel on MJ-12, and was in on the secret, and part and parcel > of the coverup. > > Bob Aw come on Bob. Where would the Project Blue Book files be if Sagan hadn't gone to bat and prevented their destruction by the USAF. He had the clout and went to the top on that one, thinking it unforgivable that such a caseload of evidence could be destroyed. I think Sagan, like many astronomers was between a rock and a hard place when it came to UFOs. Shortly after one his interviews and within weeks of his death an Oceanographer friend of mine mentioned seeing Sagan as he responded to questions from a local newscaster. He shocked me when he said, "Sagan spouted the usual line didn't he. But you could see he didn't believe it." More people believe now in the existance of extraterestrial life in the Universe because of SETI of which Sagan was a major proponent. Because of these beliefs by Sagan and many other scientists, many more people all over the world by extrapolation are prepared to believe that ET is here now, although you don't have to convince Linda of this. <G> To compare him with Menzel who called Clyde Tombah (discoverer of Pluto) nuts when he reported his UFO sightings and claiming Tombah had seen swamp gas, is really stretching it. For Blue Book and SETI you at least have to give Sagan credit. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Military Records to be online soon From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:08:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:38:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Military Records to be online soon > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:48:11 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Military Records to be online soon! > All, > Today I recieved a copy of Jesse Marcel Snr.'s Military file. I will > be scanning and cleaning up the pages as best I can and posting them on > my www site. This is the beginning of my project/paper related to Jesse > Marcel and Roswell. If any of you have government documents you would > like scanned, just ask and I will gladly do the job for free, provided I > get a copy of material for myself. Maybe the UFO archive should be > online? > Scott K. Hale Scott, How about documenting the process you went through and how long it took for your successful acquisition of the documents. This maybe of interest to several list readers. You may recall a number of months ago one reader had attempted to obtain them but was told in a form letter that they had been lost when one of the service archives had a fire many years ago, etc. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: London-Bound From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jun 97 20:20:18 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:14:22 -0400 Subject: Re: London-Bound Duke presents compliments, etc. >Date: 14 Jun 97 12:09:07 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: London-Bound >>Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:03:53 -0400 >>From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >>Subject: London-Bound >>To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> >Graham wrote; >>A full 90-minutes show featuring Timothy Good, >>Nick Pope, Stanton >>T. Friedman opposite the sceptics & debunkers. >Errr...which sceptics and debunkers? Oyez, oyez. The jungle drums and coded blasts upon the shofar reach everywhere. One of our agents tells us: "Frank Close, a physicist at Rutherford Appleton Lab; David Hughes, an astronomer at Sheffield; Chris French (psychologist from Goldsmith's)." Wonder if ole Stan will still wave his obsolete blacked-out NSA papers about? And I hope nobody lets Nick Pope near anything stronger than tonic water before he goes on the air... then again, maybe I don't. Should be a laugh a minute, anyway. P. Mendoza Bratwurst Temporary Reserve Deputy Wildman of Wildomar
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jun 97 23:25:40 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:35:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:37 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Hi James, >Is it any wonder Thurmond wouldn't deposit Corso's book in the nearest >bucket. >Especially if he had been hoodwinked into writing a complimentary >foreword. I am not saying that Thurmond wasn't tricked. In fact, I have read the Intro by Thurmond and it sure sounds like he is referring to something completely different than the book is about. On the other hand, the media coverage of Thurmond's reaction to finding out the context of the book, is bound to help sell a few more copies. I wonder if Thurmond's staff considered that..... Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 The Armchair Ufologist From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:02:26 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:43:56 -0400 Subject: The Armchair Ufologist Hi All; If you've ever put aside your copy of "The Hynek UFO Report" long enough to allow yourself a few guilty moments to chuckle through the latest issue of Jim Moseley's "Saucer Smear", the "Armchair Ufologist" is for you. Ever wondered what's going on "behind the scenes" of British UFOlogy? (And with the ongoing Santilli imbroglio, how could you _not_ be wondering what's going on over on the other side of the "Big Pond"?) Well, wonder no more. "The Armchair Ufologist" is here, full of all the fun, gossip and intrigue that only UFOlogy can provide. Written by Andy Roberts, one of _Fortean Times'_ revered UFO correspondents, the "A.C." can be yours for the "price" of a simple e-mail request. Send a message to Andy at: 101322.751@compuserve.com and a copy will speedily find its way into your mailbox. The Armchair Ufologist: "Tough on ufology - tough on the causes of ufology" And a fun read to boot. Best, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:58:59 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:38:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? Hi David: >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:44:32 -0400 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? > Upon reading John's three-part "Roswell: Historical > Facts" post, I was first inclined to do a "reply" to > one or all three posts in order to discuss some of > the FACTS on a one by one basis. I'm sorry that you didn't. Roswell looms large in UFOlogy, and so it should. If it's all true it's _the_ most important event _ever_ in human history, and 50th Anniversaries don't come around every day. > However, after reading as much as I could possibly bear, Sorry. This response will be _much_ shorter. (Spontaneous cheering breaks out amongst the listmembers!) [...] > A lot of the elements of argument about Roswell go > into typical "He said, She said and They said" > scenarios. If you remove the "He said, She said" components of the Roswell story, what's left? [...] > Now, with ALL of this being said, how about we > examine the irrefutable evidence of Roswell. > FACT: In or around July 1 through 8, 1947 > SOMETHING crashed near, Brazel himself said he found the material three weeks before coming into town, around June 14. (There is some dispute about this, but even Major Marcel related the same timeframe in wire stories published on July 9, 1947.) > or on Mac Brazel's ranch and was subsequently recovered > by men and officers of the 509th Air Bombardment group > located at Roswell U.S.A.A.F. Base. It might have been recovered by just one man and one officer. Bessie Schrieber described gathering up three sacks of the material with her father and we don't know how much (if anything) was left to be picked up later. > FACT: A story was written and released that > reportedly was under the authority of the > intelligence office Major Marcel, the man who concluded that the scraps of foil and other bits and pieces constituted a "disc." > FACT: A story and press interview was conducted > under Col. Blanchard's authority that REFUTED This took place in General Ramey's office at Ft. Worth. > the "Flying Saucer" story and that showed Maj. > Jesse Marcel posing with the remains of a > Weather Balloon which was supposedly recovered > at the controversial "crash site". SINCE that time, > the Air Force has changed the OFFICIAL story so > that the "remains" were obviously FAKED from > the beginning! The story is actually quite consistent. Marcel recovered the debris, and it was flown into Ft. Worth. General Ramey's chief of staff, Colonel DuBose, stated repeatedly that the debris was never switched. This same debris was later examined by Warrant Officer Irving Newton who identified it as being part of a weather balloon and radar reflector. The Air Force's story really hasn't changed since 1947. They said the debris was from a "weather balloon" and the Project Mogul train was comprised of mainly weather balloon components. A little white lie, perhaps, or a sin of omission, but if the debris was never switched and it was later confirmed to be a weather balloon, then Major Marcel simply made a mistake in his original assessment of the material. > FACT: People in and around Roswell, New > Mexico have stated that the Air Force is lying and > that there is a "cover-up" going on about what > really occurred at the crash site in 1947. If you check out Kent Jeffrey's new article on his Roswell investigations at www.roswell.org/ you'll find that he interviewed 17 pilots and navigators who were stationed at Roswell Army Air Field in July of 1947. All of the bomber pilots had TOP SECRET clearances and were a tightly-knit group. They all told Kent that nothing unusual happened at RAAF on July 8, 1947, except for a little excitement caused by that news release. There's also the affidavit signed by Jim McKnight whose family owned the land where the "main" crash allegedly occurred. According to McKnight, nothing special happened on their property in 1947. No giant road trains of military vehicles tearing up the sand and leaving deep impressions, no massive cordons of troops, no light planes flying overhead mapping the crash site from the air, etc. Nothing to attract his family's attention or reveal any major activity at all. > FACT: People in and around Roswell, New > Mexico have been maintaining the previous fact > for almost 50 years as of this writing. See above. > FIVE Facts. Five irrefutable facts. I "think" I just refuted them, but I'm happy to discuss this further with you. > 1. WHY did something crash in the desert of New > Mexico in July of 1947? > SOME outside influence has to cause something to > crash! According to Marcel, no gouges, no marks. No evidence that anything actually _crashed_. > A body that is in motion will remain in > motion until acted upon by some outside force. And a balloon train will remain aloft until those balloons start to burst. Then it gently descends to the ground where it's torn apart and scattered by the winds. > 2. WHY did the "intelligence office" of RAAF base > authorize the release of a story about capturing a > flying saucer? Additionally, WHY release a story > that they had no concrete proof as being real? THE most important question of all. For this it'll be helpful if we actually venture into the Roswell Forest. Occam's chainsaw at the ready? Right, start 'er up and let's start chopping... Look over there, see that clearing? Let's head for it.... See all these tree stumps? Know what happened here about 51 years ago? Some forestry workers came in and chopped down a whole slew of trees. They were sent off to the pulp mills where they were turned into newsprint so that the Roswell _Daily-Record_ could publish the July 8, 1947, issue with the headline: RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region While this made for a dramatic headline, it was hopelessly inaccurate. Nobody "captured" anything. The "saucer" was just lying there in lots of little pieces, and it was not the first (or last) story about captured discs or saucers to be published that July. I've covered this in a subsequent message which, mea culpa, was also somewhat lengthy, but if you read through the newspapers of the time you'll note "saucers" and "discs" were generic terms to denote all manner of unknown aerial phenomena. Things didn't even have to look disc-like to be called "discs." Newspapers, including those in Roswell, carried many "saucer" stories after the June 24th Arnold sightings. They also reported on the many "disc" retrievals that the Air Force was involved with. A large story appeared in the July 8 Roswell _Morning Dispatch_ detailing the finding of two discs in Texas, and another one in Spokane, Washington. (A former scoutmaster admitted to hoaxing the Spokane disc, but the _Houston Chronicle_ knew better: "...there are some mysterious facts contained in his (the scoutmaster's) first report that lend credence to the tale." But of course...) This confusion highlights the fact that (can you guess what I'm going to say next?) "nobody knew what discs/saucers were." In another message I alluded to an August, 1947 Gallop Poll in which 90% of interviewees indicated they had heard of "Flying Saucers," but the overwhelming majority responded with entirely prosaic suggestions as to the origins of the saucers: secret weapons, mirages, etc. Flying saucers and discs were generic descriptions of "sky phantoms", or "whatzniks," or "whatzits." Nobody knew what they were so it was fun to call them different names and speculate where they might have come from. And in that atmosphere of excitement and speculation, if you found something you couldn't immediately recognise, calling it a "disc" might not have seemed far-fetched at all. Announcing the "capture" of a "Flying Saucer" in 1947 made for a great headline, but it didn't even begin to address the question: "What exactly is a 'Flying Saucer' anyway?" > Based upon the fact that the 509th bombardment > group was the ONLY atomic air base in the world it > is highly doubtful that they were looking for "Press > Attention". It's a good point. About the only thing I can suggest is that nobody within the Air Force thought there'd be such a reaction to the announcement. > It is well known that intelligence officers > have very little sense of humour, Major Marcel did try to convince Newton that the rawin target he had in his hands contained "alien" writing. Some might have found that to be humorous. > Press officers and Intelligence officers NEVER need to > verify anything before they release information, It's hard to accept in these post-Watergate times, but maybe it was all so simple back in '47: Marcel didn't know what the debris was, "maybe a disc?" Blanchard trusted his Intelligence Officer so he called "Higher Headquarters" about it. They told him, "Send it over." When Blanchard asked, "Can I tell the press?" they might have replied, "Okay, but keep the details to yourself." A press release was issued and... Much the same happened with the Spokane disk discovery the day before. General Vandenberg told a Colonel Warren: "The line of approach is that we have nothing like that, we don't understand what it is, but we are leaving no stone unturned to be sure." If the Army Air Force was playing its cards close to its chest, Vandenberg should have told Warren to say, "No comment, keep the press out of it." But, you know, those were the good old days... > 3. WHY conduct a press interview and present > physical evidence of a mistake? The release had been issued before the debris had been identified. > And with the ever-changing "official" line of what really crashed, The initial release stated that a "disc" had come into the hands of the RAAF through the co-operation of a local rancher. As already noted, there was nothing "disc-like" about the material at all. It was only a guess on Major Marcel's part that the debris might have come from a "disc." > why conduct this interview with FAKED evidence? According to DuBose, the evidence wasn't "faked" at all. The "disc" debris was brought to Ft. Worth where it was identified as being parts of a weather balloon and radar reflector. > The Air Force really enjoys showing the world when > they screw up, therefore, call everyone in and bring > the widest possible attention to their mistake. I think > NOT! They had no choice. The release had been issued and the media wanted to know more. Too late to say "Oops! Go away..." > If the evidence shown was FAKE, then WHERE is the REAL > evidence and why not show us that NOW? There's no evidence that any of the material was "faked." DuBose maintained the material was not switched. Newton identified it as being balloon debris. There was just the one type of unidentified evidence that was later identified as being the you-know-what. Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to the source, but in "The Roswell Incident," Major Marcel is quoted as saying that he had been photographed with some of the _actual_ debris. If you examine the debris pictures taken in General Ramey's office, they all show the same material, regardless of whether it's being held by Marcel, DuBose, or Irving Newton. > 4. WHY did all those people decide to risk ridicule > and potential government and air force intervention > in their lives by saying that the whole thing was a > cover-up and that the Air Force was lying? Not "all" those people did. It's just a given that when you're trying to provide evidence for the proposition that a spaceship crashed in Roswell in 1947, you're not going to clutter up precious pages with stories from people who say that nothing happened. (Not for any dishonest reasons, I should add. It's simply a matter of managing one's limited resources.) > For fame and monetary gain? All those people are > now well known by everyone in the world and they > are all living as multi-millionaires from their stories! Is money the only reason people tell stories? Why would Glenn Dennis, for instance, say he wanted to marry his beloved Nurse "X" only to later state she was a nun with no interest in men? Why would Gerald Anderson lie about the length of a phone call with Kevin Randle and then fabricate a phone bill to "prove" his story was true? Where's the "money" in doing something ridiculous like that? Yet he did it. Why? > Anyone out there familiar with the term NFL? National Football League? > As in NOT F---ing LIKELY! Oh. ;-) Sadly, as noted above, it does happen, and it happens often enough to make the matter of gauging eyewitness reliability an ongoing issue. > 5. WHY have those people and their family > members kept this story alive for almost 50 years? The ones who claim that nothing happened, or the ones who claim something did happen? Either way, I suspect the answer is they were asked about it by reporters and researchers. > Because they've got nothing to better to do with > their time and they love being hounded to death by > UFO researchers, questioned endlessly and > having people call them liars whenever they tell > their story. Some people enjoy a nice chat, especially in their latter years, and you'll find that very few Roswell "witnesses" are ever called liars. > I firmly understand the need to get as many > DETAILS confirmed as much as the next person, > however, let's NOT lose sight of the forest. In a forest the trees are the "details." Remove all the details and your forest becomes an empty field. Same with Roswell. We _need_ those details. Who, why, where, and given the short timeframe in which the events occurred, _when_. Things become problematic when you string all the current "details" together: lots of enormous gaps. This leads to the necessity of "filling in" those gaps. Depending on how this is done, the landscape can be altered entirely. > It's time to let the "Official" arms of the incident at > Roswell try to answer the HARD questions and convince us > of the reasons WHY these questions are there. The "official" arms believe they've already answered the hard questions: Unknown debris, later identified as being from a weather balloon. Ever the party-poopers, the Air Force reinforced this answer in 1994 by telling us that the weather balloon was a component of the TOP SECRET Project Mogul. Clearly this answer isn't to everybody's satisfaction, and there's no harm done if we keep on looking. I intend to. > (Just my two cents again, from a voice in the > wilderness....) We need to be discussing these things and I'm grateful you went to the trouble to post your thoughts. Thanks David. Best, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Mo(o)re on MJ-12 - SUN #44 From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:44:47 +1000 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:38:09 -0400 Subject: Mo(o)re on MJ-12 - SUN #44 >From _Skeptics' UFO Newsletter_ by Philip J. Klass. #44, March,1997 404 "N" Street, SW, Washington DC 20024 (C) 1997 [SIX ISSUES $15 for US/CANADA, OVERSEAS AIR MAIL IS $20/YEAR] ============================================================== _In 1983, Bill Moore Reportedly Discussed Possible Use of Bogus MJ-12 Type Documents To Encourage New Roswell Witnesses To Speak Out_ On April 16, 1983 -- less than two years before William L. Moore and Jaime Shandera claim they received the 'Top Secret/Eyes Only' MJ-12 documents from an unknown source -- Moore reportedly sought the reaction of his friend Brad Sparks, a respected UFO researcher, to the idea of creating such counterfeit government documents. Sparks strongly recommended against it. Later, when Sparks called Stanton T. Friedman he was shocked to discover that Friedman defended Moore's idea. Moore explained to Sparks that his and Friedman's efforts to locate persons who had been involved in (alleged) crashed-saucer recovery operations in New Mexico, and subsequent related events, had run into a dead end. During the April 16, 1983, meeting in Berkeley, Calif., Moore suggested that counterfeit government documents containing crashed-saucer information could be used to induce former military personnel to speak out and ignore their secrecy oaths. Sparks urged Moore not to resort to bogus documents, pointing out that if they contained any factual errors, this would identify the documents as counterfeit to those privy to the true facts. This, Sparks warned, could ruin Moore's reputation. _SUN_ first learned of Sparks' involvement in mid-1991 but he was reluctant to speak out. Subsequent events have overcome his reluctance. These include limited disclosure of Moore's idea of creating bogus documents by Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt in their 1994 book, "The Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell." In a brief chapter debunking the MJ-12 papers, the book reports: "According to Friedman, among others, Moore had suggested as early as 1982 that he wanted to create Roswell documents, thinking that it might open doors that were closed." Moore's idea may have been inspired by Sgt. Richard Doty, then assigned to the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) at Kirtland Air Force Base, in Albuquerque N.M., with whom Moore developed a close friendship in the early 1980s. Doty was "involved" or suspected of being involved in the creation of several counterfeit government documents about bogus UFO incidents, as Moore later admitted in his 1990 report "The MJ-12 Documents: An Analytical Report," co-authored with Shandera. In 1985, Doty was transferred to an AFOSI post in West Germany and assigned to counter-intelligence work. Within two years Doty was dismissed from AFOSI for turning in bogus claims about his activities. He spent the last two years before retirement serving as the manager of the mess hall for noncommissioned officers at Kirtland AFB [SUN #7/Jan. 1991]. _BOGUS DUTY TELETYPE INTRODUCES TERM "MJ TWELVE"_ So far as is known to SUN, the term "MJ Twelve" first appeared on a one-page "Secret" teletype message involving UFO photos, dated Nov. 17, 1980, which Doty provided to Moore in early 1981. (This was roughly four years before Shandera reportedly received the MJ-12 roll of film in a brown wrapper postmarked "Albuquerque.") Moore showed a copy of this Doty teletype to Sparks and UFOlogist Kal Korff on Jan. 17, 1982. Several months later, after Moore was hired as a consultant for a UFO program for station KPIX-TV in San Francisco, he provided the TV show producer with a copy. [Subsequent investigation by researcher Robert Todd in early 1983 revealed the teletype message that Doty had provided was bogus.] During the April 16, 1983, meeting with Sparks, Moore briefly discussed a "Top Secret" _Project Aquarius_ document which was cryptically mentioned in the Doty-provided teletype message. But it was not until their meeting on Oct. 19, 1984, that Moore showed Sparks several pages of a heavily censored Project Aquarius document, dated June 14, 1977, which appeared to be a UFO briefing for the President -- then Jimmy Carter. _The cover page carried the following notation: "ATTENTION: THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED BY MJ12 [sic]. MJ12 IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS SUBJECT MATTER." The second sheet read: "(TS/-ORCON) The information contained in this document is classified TOP SECRET with ORCON (Only the originator may release the information). Only MJ12 has access to Project Aquarius. No other government agency, to include the military, has access to the information contained in this briefing. There are only two copies of Project Aquarius and the location is known only to MJ12. _This document will be destroyed after the briefing. No notes, photographs or audio recordings may be made of this briefing_. [Emphasis added.] The Moore/Shandera report of 1990, offering their assessment of the authenticity of the MJ-12 papers, gave the following account of how Moore had obtained the Aquarius document: "In early March of 1983, Moore received a telephone call telling him that some information was going to be made available to him but that he would have to go and pick it up. 'You will be receiving some instructions,' the caller said. 'You must follow them carefully or the deal is off.' After making a cloak-and-dagger trip across the country, Moore ended up in a motel on the edge of a mid-sized city in upstate New York. At precisely 5:00 P. M., according to the arrangement, an individual came to the door of Moore's room bearing a sealed brown manila envelope. 'You have exactly 19 minutes,' the person said. 'You may do whatever you wish with this material during the time, but at the end of that time, I must have it back. After that, you are free to do whatever you wish.' Inside the envelope were 11 pages of what purported to be a Top Secret/Orcon document entitled 'Executive Briefing: Subject: Project Aquarius.' and bearing the date of June 14, 1977. 'May I photograph this?' Moore asked; 'May I read it into a tape recorder?' The courier, who stood quietly in the corner of the room the entire time, replied: 'Both are permitted. You have 17 minutes remaining." According to Moore, he took photographs of each of the 11 pages, using light from the motel room lamp and then read the text into his tape recorder "taking care to read in the word 'line' at the end of each line, as well as verbally noting punctuation marks, etc. so that a complete reconstruction of the text could be made in the proper format should the photos not turn out. (They did, but all were of low contrast and, although legible, some were moderately out [of] focus as well.) When time was up, the courier collected the pages, carefully counted them, replaced them in the original manila envelope, and left." _SGT. DOTY SHOWS SAME AQUARIUS DOCUMENT TO ANOTHER RESEARCHER_ UFO/Cattle Mutilation researcher, _Linda Moulton Howe_ says she saw some of the same Project Aquarius papers several weeks later, on April 9, 1983, during her visit to Albuquerque to meet with Sgt. Doty. According to Ms. Howe, "Agent Doty said I was being shown the briefing paper because the government intended to release to me several thousand feet of color and black-and-white film taken between 1947 and 1964 showing crashed UFO discs and extraterrestrial bodies as historic footage to be included in the Home Box Office documentary [which Howe hoped to produce], supported with official government confirmation." Howe never got the (alleged) films. When Ms. Howe's account was published in the December 1978 issue of _Just Cause_ newsletter, Doty wrote its editor, _Barry Greenwood_, to flatly deny her report. Ms. Howe responded by submitting an affidavit attesting to the veracity of her account. _Doty refused to do the same._ Doty's letter of Mar. 3, 1988, published in the June 1988 issue of _Just Cause_, concluded: "I know of no secret Government investigation of UFOs. I have never heard of MJ-12 or any secret Government agency that investigates UFO." Although Doty claims he had "never heard of MJ-12," "MJ Twelve" was mentioned in the bogus teletype message he provided to Moore. MOORE CLAIMS THAT HIS TOP _WASHINGTON-BASED_ INTELLIGENCE SOURCE, CODE NAME "FALCON," SELECTED SGT. DOTY -- BASED IN ALBUQUERQUE -- TO SERVE AS HIS LIAISON/COURIER TO TRANSMIT SENSITIVE UFO DOCUMENTS AND INFORMATION TO MOORE. (IT IS SURPRISING THAT "FALCON" COULD NOT FIND A COURIER BASED IN WASHINGTON WHICH WOULD BE MUCH MORE CONVENIENT.) _IF MOORE'S CLAIM THAT HE, "FALCON" AND DOTY PERIODICALLY MET IN ALBUQUERQUE IS TRUE, THEN DOTY'S STATEMENT THAT HE DID NOT KNOW OF ANY "SECRET GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION OF UFOs" IS A LIE. IF, HOWEVER, DOTY WAS BEING TRUTHFUL IN HIS LETTER TO GREENWOOD, THEN MOORE'S "FALCON" CLAIM IS A LIE_. (There is good reason to believe that "Falcon" -- Moore's highly placed intelligence official -- was really Sgt. Doty -- although both Moore and Doty deny it.) _MOORE USES UFO-RESEARCHER LEE GRAHAM AS HIS "LEAKER-CONDUIT"_ In May of 1985 -- approximately five months after Shandera (allegedly) received the MJ-12 papers on a roll of undeveloped film and nearly two years before they were made public by Moore, Friedman and Shandera -- Moore showed the MJ-12 papers to his friend _Lee M. Graham_, of Monrovia, Calif. Graham, a credulous UFO researcher, held a "Secret" clearance because of his job as a technician with Aerojet's ElectroSystems Div., working on the sensors used for the USAF's satellites designed to detect the launch of enemy ballistic missiles. On June 17, 1985, Graham made a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Dept. Of Energy in Washington in which be briefly discussed Majestic 12, cited the (alleged) President Truman letter of Sept. 18, 1947, which created MJ-12, and even listed the names of its 12 members. (Graham erred, the Truman letter was dated Sept. _24_, 1947; the Eisenhower briefing document was dated Nov. _18_, 1952. Graham typically distributes many copies of his many FOIA letters to other UFOlogists, and so many rumors began to circulate about new "Top Secret/Eyes Only" MJ-12 papers which seemingly confirmed the Roswell crashed-saucer incident. These rumors reached Barry Greenwood, editor of the _Just Cause_ UFO newsletter and in mid-October he made contact with Graham. As a result, the December 1985 issue of the newsletter became the first UFO publication to discuss MJ-12 and to list its 12 members, along with a biography for each. (The same issue of _Just Cause_ included a copy of the "Doty teletype message," but Greenwood cautioned readers that its authenticity had not been verified.) _One important document that Moore did not show Graham was a one-page "Top Secret" memo, allegedly written by Robert Cutler, Special Assistant to President Eisenhower, on July 14, 1954, which referred to a "MJ-12 Special Studies Project."_ Moore and Shandera later claimed they found an _unsigned_ carbon copy of this memo in July of 1985 during the visit to the National Archives in Washington. Allegedly, the White House memo was found in a carton of recently declassified USAF intelligence documents. (Subsequent investigation showed that Cutler _was out of the country on the date the memo allegedly was written_.) _HOW MOORE ALMOST GOT "SCOOPED" IN RELEASE OF MJ-12 PAPERS_ _SUN_ suspects that Moore's strategy for exploiting the MJ-12 papers was the following; he would publish snippets of information from the papers in his newsletter, _FOCUS_, attributing the information to his alleged high-intelligence sources. Later he would release the MJ-12 papers which seemed to authenticate the information from his (alleged) sources. Then Moore would be free to report any fanciful tale and attribute it to these sources. However, the MJ-12 papers were self-serving because they seemly (sic) confirmed the Roswell crashed-saucer scenario in the Berlitz/Moore book, with a few additions such as recovery of four ET bodies. If the MJ-12 papers had (allegedly) been sent _only_ to Moore, via his associate Shandera, this might prompt suspicions that Moore had created them. An attractive solution to this problem emerged in late May of _1986_ -- a year before the MJ-12 papers were made public -- when Moore was visited by _Timothy Good_, a British UFOlogist who was in the U.S. to attend a UFO conference in Arizona and to gather material for his book "Above Top Secret," which would be published in July of 1987. If the MJ-12 papers were published in Britain in Good's new book shortly _after_ Moore's release in the U.S., this would help divert suspicion that Moore might be involved in their creation. And the MJ-12 papers would achieve international fame very quickly. In late May of 1986, Lee Graham and his wife were invited to have dinner with Moore and Good at a restaurant in Tujunga, Calif. At dinner, Moore and Good made guarded quips about MJ-12. Later, Good ordered a carafe of wine and proposed a toast -- _but he did not disclose the reason for the toast_ and Graham opted not to ask. Later, Graham said he learned that "_the toast was for the simultaneous release of the MJ-12 documents in England and the U.S._" Moore and Friedman were scheduled to be featured speakers at the 24th Annual National UFO Conference, which Moore was sponsoring, to be held in mid-June in Burbank, Calif. Advanced conference publicity said that they "_will reveal some very startling material._" With Good's book scheduled for publication in _July_, Moore could be the first to reveal MJ-12 papers in mid-June and Good's book would soon follow to provide independent corroboration. However, Good's publisher decided to hold a press conference on _May 29_ and to feature the book's MJ-12 papers. Apparently, Good did not inform Moore of this until a few days before the London conference. Moore was running late in getting out the next issue of _FOCUS_, dated April 30, 1987, partially due to work associated with his upcoming UFO conference. But he managed to release the MJ-12 papers to the U.S. media on _May 28 -- one day before Good._ The MJ-12 papers received widespread media coverage, including _The New York Times_ and _The Washington Post_. They were featured on ABC-TV's popular "Nightline" program with host Ted Koppel interviewing Stanton Friedman and _SUN's_ editor. Evidence that the timing of Good's press conference came as a surprise to Moore is found in the contents of the April 30 issue of _FOCUS_. It opened with an article in which Moore claimed he had "succeeded in establishing a cooperative relationship with a number of well-placed contacts within the American intelligence community....The information contained in the following pages corroborates information provided us verbally during meetings with these contacts. Assurances have been given that additional information can be made available to us over the next several months. This information is being shared with the UFO community, and through them, ultimately with the public at large...in the hope it will assist in setting the stage for additional information to come." This was followed by three very heavily censored pages from the Eisenhower briefing with all mention of MJ-12 blacked out. The fact that Moore released complete, unexpurgated MJ-12 papers only a day or two after _FOCUS_ went into the mail indicates that he was surprised by the timing of the press conference for Good's book. The next issue of _FOCUS_, dated Sept. 1, was largely devoted to MJ-12, _but there was no mention of Good's new book_. _GOOD CREDITS AN AMERICAN WITH GOOD INTELLIGENCE CONTACTS_ At Good's press conference, when asked how he had obtained the MJ-12 papers, he replied that he had obtained them "from a reliable American source who has close connections with the intelligence community," according to a front page story in the May 31 edition of the _London Observer._ Later, both Good and Moore would deny that Moore was that American source. Moore's one-page press release of May 28 which accompanied the MJ-12 papers, including the Cutler memo, had the following disclaimer: "Although we are not in a position to endorse its authenticity at this time, it is our considered opinion, based on research and interviews conducted thus far, that the document and its contents _appear_ to be genuine." [Emphasis in original.] Although Moore had not been scheduled to speak at the annual MUFON conference, held in Washington in late June, he was a last-minute addition and delivered a lengthy report on the MJ-12 papers at the conference banquet. Moore concluded his talk with the following: _"Now that it [MJ-12] is in the papers, if there is anything to it, others will come forward and say: 'Well, now that it has been published in The New York Times, now we can talk.' We'll see. There have been a couple hints so far that maybe somebody will say something._" Little more than four years earlier, Moore had suggested to Brad Sparks that this objective could be achieved by releasing bogus government documents. [A subsequent issue of SUN will offer more evidence to identify the likely architect of the MJ-12 papers. Candidates include: Dolly Parton, Sgt. Richard Doty, Richard Nixon, Bill Moore, Pope John Paul, Jaime Shandera, Boris Yeltsin, Stanton Friedman and Sir Edmund Hillary.] ===================================================================== -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 *** CUFORN NEWSLETTER INDEX *** From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:57:11 -0400 Subject: *** CUFORN NEWSLETTER INDEX *** As some of you may already be aware, as well as indexing the Canadian DND files I was also creating an index of all past issues of the Canadian UFO Research Network (CUFORN) newsletter called the "Bulletin". It goes back almost 20 years. Feel free to order any back issue you like for $5.00 each and sending it directly to: CUFORN, 77547-592 Sheppard Ave. West Downsview, Ontario, Canada, M3H-6A7 If you have any questions call Mr. Lawrence Fenwick at (416)787-1905 If you would like to pay by Visa or MasterCard you could e-mail the information to me at ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net and I'll get order "rung in" and forward cash and order to CUFORN for you. This will save the time and expense of international money orders. I'm sure the list is full of errors, as I did it quickly. If they bother you, feel free to re-edit the list and e-mail it back to me. <grin> .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------' The CUFORN Bulletin Subscribe to Canada's Oldest UFO Newsletter (Back Issues only $5.00 each, Order Today!) Volume 1 Number 1 1979 (Missing) Volume 1 Number 2 January 1980: CUFORN Meeting Agenda Network News CUFORN gets International Publicity Hotline Calls decline due to MUFON's Henry McKay Volume 1 Number 3, 1980: CUFORN Meeting Agenda Network News CUFORN gets International Publicity Hotline Calls decline due to MUFON's Henry McKay Volume 1 Number 4: CUFORN Meeting Agenda Special Meeting with Stanton Friedman & William Moore Recommended UFO Books Volume 1 Number 5: UFO Sighting Report Forms Available Get the Complete Picture Order CUFORN's Recommended Reading List Decline in UFO Sightings Beware of the Media New Book Proves Reality of UFOs Meeting with Stanton Friedman & William Moore CSICOP Member on the Trail Let's go after Hardware Out of Town Members invited to Meetings Volume 2 Number 1, January/February 1981: CUFORN gets UFO "Hot Line" phone number UFO Lecture set for April 8 in Toronto, Ontario CUFORN Field Investigations Manual in the works CUFORN's March Meeting in Toronto, Ontario Summary of CUFORN's January Meeting USAF Training Film Confirmed Electronic Media and UFOs Stanton Friedman gets CBC Airtime CUFORN Member related to Charles Lindbergh Preview of New Books Additions to CUFORN's Recommended Reading List Volume 2 Number 2, March/April 1981: CUFORN to hold May Meeting at Editor's Place in Toronto "Alternative 3" researcher guest at May Meeting Four Publications carry publicity on Editor's Lecture Revised CUFORN Meeting Schedule William L. Moore becomes CUFORN member MUFON 1982 in planning stage Moore claims Meier-Pleiaades book a hoax Volume 2 Number 3, May/June 1981: Explanation for TV Show Errors Project UFOCAN reports on Congress Current UFO literature news CUFORN membership news Close Call for CUFORN member State Director starts new group and newsletter Mexican R/V flap revealed at May Meeting Major Publicity for CUFORN in New Book Notes on a two-year-old Phone Call IFO report for June Summary of Canadian UFO Reports 1952 to 1980 Volume 2 Number 4, July/August 1981: CUFORN's Code of Ethics Toronto hotel booked for 1982 MUFON convention Current UFO Literature News Media coverage of CUFORN French TV UFO Special July UFO Sighting Reports August UFO Sighting Reports William Moore & Stanton Friedman visit Toronto CUFORN's Recommended Reading List Volume 2 Number 5, September/October 1981: CUFORN's Media Blitz MUFON holds pre-convention meeting UFO Photographs Two New UFO Books Reviewed Demonstration & Speeches on Non-Conventional Energy in Toronto Roswell Revision Planned UFO Lawsuit, Decision Appealed UFO Reports Volume 2 Number 6, November/December 1981: Major Changes Announced at November Meeting UFO Reports UFOs in the Media CUFORN's Bill Moore among severn superb speakers at UFOHIO 1981 Accent will be on Canadian Speakers at MUFON Symposium Volume 3 Number 1, January/February 1982: Heavy Media Coverage from December through February Advice when questioning UFO observer UFO literature for sale More CAUS lawsuits planned 899 UFO films and photos analyzed by Ground Saucer Watch (GSW) 1940 German Flying Saucers 8 IFOs and one UFO report during Jan/Feb US Marine & wife have repeat UFO sightings CUFOS takes over NICAP files Volume 3 Number 2, March/April 1982: Toronto, Ontario abduction reports UFOs and the Media Upcoming Media Events Stanton Friedman "blows out", replaced by Schuessler Distinguished Scientist & Journalist joins CUFORN Volume 3 Number 3 & 4, May/June/July/August 1982: New CUFORN Logo Paper presented to MUFON UFO summit Recommended Methods for dealing with Media & Publicity William Moore sends UFO info from Washington, Albuquerque & Tokyo Errors in Newspaper coverage of MUFON 1982 symposium Five new CUFORN members Bulletin/Newsletter Exchange Policy Regular CUFORN meetings put on hold UFOs & the Media 26 UFO sightings reported to CUFORN Director has Close Encounter Director has second UFO encounter Notice for those not familiar with UFO history Volume 3 Number 5, September/October 1982: US Military classification of UFOs is two points higher than H-Bomb Regressive Hypnosis reveals startling series of abductions A look back at UFO research at M.I.T. Volume 3 Number 6, November/December 1982: Where is Paul Longstaff UFO over Uxbridge Dangers of intellectual snobbery CUFORN gets from letter from NOVA producer Pilot reports UFO from 1976 Astronaut "Buzz" Aldrin reports UFO in his Book Woman reports cigar-shaped UFO UFO film voted worst movie ever made UFOs and the media Volume 4 Number 1, January/February 1983: The Biblical UFO Connection UFOs and the Media Volume 4 Number 2, March/April 1983: UFOs and the Media Rationalism previals in TV debate on UFOs What is Happening in the Media Scene Today Goldwater meets Stone Wall accessing Blue Room New CUFORN Headquarters New CUFORN UFO Hot Line Phone Number CUFORN member from Stratford working on Manual Volume 4 Number 3, May/June 1983: Researcher Masterminds Hoax UFO Fragments UFOs and the Media Abductee's Daughter asks for Regression RCMP continues Cattle Mutilation Probe Excellent Insights found in pages of "Flying Saucer Review" A "Klassic" (sic) case of Conversion CUFORN Probing possible Abduction UFO Conference set for November at University of Nebraska Volume 4 Number 4, July/August 1983: North American UFO Federation Formed Ufology Course Postponed Expose' Prints Cancelled Time Saved by check of Woman's Abduction Story Retrospective on MUFON's 1982 Symposium in Toronto UFOs, Past, Present & Future First SBI Annual Sympsium SBI donates to NAUFOF Library UFOs and the Media Four CUFORN Members Expelled in Six Years CUFORN Enters Shuttle Competition Wendell Steven's Jailed for Seven Years Volume 4 Number 5, September/October 1983: Stolen Telex says NASA leads UFO Probe US Project Aquarius data is Top Secret UFOs and the Media Henry McKay resigns as NAUFOF Deputy Director From our Photo Archives, Jim McCampbell, Scientist & Ufologist Some UFOs are Soviet Discs says US Naval Expert Ground Saucer Watch analyzed UFO Photos for Free Volume 5 Number 1, January/February 1984: UFOs and the Electronic Media Torme tackles UFO Script for Abduction Film UFO Fragments View of UFOs is too Light From our Photo Archive - Dennis Prophet The Word Ufology Historic Breakthrough Editor (Fenwick) gives Canada's first College UFO Course Volume 5 Number 2, March/April 1984: UFOs and the Electronic Media CUFORN study finds 1968 to 1973 key for Quebec Sightings Seneca College offers Ufology course Two Famous Ufologists lecture in Toronto ETH wins college poll New evidence emerges in Abduction Theory A Retrospective from CUFORN's Photo Archive Two famous Close Encounters UFO Hot-Line Reports Volume 5 Number 3, May/June 1984: "Humming" Saucer reported in Stayner UFOs and the Electronic Media New UFO Movie in July UFOs and Phychic events on TV show Details of UFO college course Ex-Football Czar was avid Ufologist UFO Witnesses: Are they Public Property? Volume 5 Number 4, July/August 1984: UFOs and their Physiological Effects In Memoriam Nine UFOs Reported in Toronto UFOs and the Electronic Media MUFON's African Representative speaks in Toronto Volume 5 Number 5, September/October 1984: Tribute to Wilbert B. Smith - Pioneer Canadian UFO Researcher UFO Report from Cochrane, Ontario Editor (Fenwick) teaches UFO course from Home UFO Congress held in Belgium Local CUFORN member dies suddenly Hynek plans CUFOS move to Phoenix Just Cause revived "Clear Intent" in second printing Crash/Retrieval and abduction case under Investigation (Part 1) Volume 5 Number 6, November/December 1984: Crash Retrieval and Abduction Investigation stalled Chronology of College & University Courses in Ufology CUFORN Membership Profiles UFOs and the Electronic Media Philadelphia Experiment is now a film UFO Reports from Wisconsin, Toronto & France Stanton Friedman's complaint rejected by media group "Clear Intent" into third printing New Book from England gets coverage in Globe & Mail CUFORN member comletes computerization of Portuguese UFO Reports Editor's (Fenwick's) wife dies Volume 6 Number 1, January/February 1985: New Evidence of Goverment/Alien Liaison UFOs and the Electronic Media Close Encounter near Lake Ontario Book Review, "The Uninvited" Photos from CUFORN Archives Toronto "Star" publishes Friedman's Rebuttal Sky Crash, A Cosmic Conspiracy Probing a Military Close Encounter Volume 6 Number 2, March/April 1985: UFOs and the Media Men in Black at Bentwaters Air Force Base CAUS Lawsuit and FBI UFO memo received at CUFORN UFO Landing near Kirtland Air Force Base Former CUFORN member gets Media Award McDivitt's UFO Photo Bill Moore to speak in Toronto Great Line-Up of Speakers at MUFON Symposium in St. Louis Volume 6 Number 3, May/June 1985: MUFON Symposium a Success in St. Louis Interview with US Major General Keegan The New UFO Depression Invaluable index for "Situation Red" available UFOs and the Electronic Media A Thai IFO UFO Items from the Newspapers Interviewing Observers, Tips from a Police Officer William (Bill) Moore's Toronto Speach Postponed Volume 6 Number 4, July/August 1985: UFO Origins, a theory of time travel Report on Belgium UFO Congress UFOs and the Electronic Media MUFON's 1986 Symposium in Michigan George Fawcett's New Recommended Reading List MUFON Publications List CUFORN Editor (Fenwick) placed on "Flying Saucer Review" Masthead Profile of MUFON's Dennis Stacy Volume 6 Number 5, September/October 1985: Glowing Birds New Book by Patrick Huyghe New Publications from William (Bill) Moore Your chance to contribute to Fund for UFO Research What's wrong with profiting from Ufology Nuclear Weapons Storage Areas and UFO Reports Looking Back, 1978 report from Nuclear Power Plant in U.K. Volume 6 Number 6, November/December 1985: MJ-12: Myth or Reality UFOs and the Electronic Media Editor's (Fenwick's) Mother Dies Reagan & Friedman in the Spotlight Strange Lights in the Sky Volume 7 Number 1, January/February 1986: UFOs and the Electronic Media The Pentagon Vs. Bryant Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) Quarterly Report Henry McKay to Speak Exploding UFO over Toronto Volume 7 Number 2, March/April 1986: Trinute to Late Dr. J. Allen Hynek Belgian Scientist Defends UFO Theories at UFO-Belgium Conference Multiple Witnesses of UFOs in B.C. in 1978 Flying Formation of UFOs over Toronto in 1978 Daylight Disc seen by Two Observers in Calgary 1985 IFO report from Toronto in March Two Amateur Astronomers sight formation in Toronto, March 1986 Information Exchange with Belgian Group Five observe UFOs in Kingston, Ontario Volume 7 Number 3, May/June 1986: General MacArthur and the Italian Mayor U.S. Government UFO Documents (Part 1) UFOs and the Electronic Media UFO sighting case from British Columbia, 1974 Ontario Woman reports she was abductioned twice Volume 7 Number 4, July/August 1986: Photo Feature on MUFON's 17th Symposium UFOs and the Electronic Media Did "Blue Book" head, see a UFO over Washington Noctilucent cloud, satellite or UFO? Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) Quarterly report Volume 7 Number 5, September/October 1986: UFOs and the Electronic Media Two books Reveal Government Aliens The Klass - C.I.A. connection Information on Project Aquarious MUFON's 1987 Theme Analysis under Way NSA Documents Syria's President Assad discloses interest in UFOs Volume 7 Number 6, November/December 1986: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) special bulletin UFO Letters to the Editor Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) document order form UFO Crash Revelations Focus on UFOs, Stalled Cars and other Effects Volume 8 Number 1, January/February 1987: Alaska UFO sightings from November 1986 John Musgrave Turns Skeptic? Two Ontario UFO Reports Bud Hopkins in Toronto to Promote New Book Another JAL Sighting Reported by Terauchi on January 12 UFO Letters Reading List Revised for 1987 Volume 8 Number 2, March/April 1987: Cancer Forces SBI Director to Resign Major Media Coverage for "Communion" and "Intruders" SETI without Saucers UFO Letters MUFON UFO Symposiums in 1987 & 1988 in Washington & Lincoln Newburgh, Ontario UFO captured on Videotape Volume 8 Number 3, May/June 1987: Genuine U.S. Government UFO Documents and Possibly Fraudulent by William L. Moore: Hoaxer or Hoaxed (Part 1) Volume 8 Number 4, July/August 1987: 10th Anniversary Issue: Majestic 12 Documents: William L. Moore: Hoaxer or Hoaxed (Part 2) Volume 8 Number 5, September/October 1987: The MJ-12 Documents: Major Breakthrough or Clever Hoax? Debunkers Ignore Key Evidence about Government UFO Documents British Defence Ministry Replies to CUFORN Query about UFO Information UNICAT's Listing of Top 20 Canadian Cases 1965 CE3 Report from British Columbia UFO Researcher Tommy Roy Blann Retires Volume 8 Number 6, November/December 1987: What does our Government know about UFOs Portuguese Computer Catalog Under Way Abductee's Implant Revealed by Heat-Seeking Device Some Saucers are Tasty UFO Letters Why UFO Reports are Filed, Unpublished Graphic Artist Encounters Triangular UFO near Toronto Volume 9 Number 1, January/February 1988: UFO Flap in Isreal Series of Encounters by a Couple in Southern Ontario Analysis of UFO Fragment done by CUFORN Consultant Volume 9 Number 2, March/April 1988: Abduction Case Thwarted by Fear of Hypnosis CUFORN Consultant's Analysis of Metal Sample The Nullarbor, Australia Close Encounter Director of Communications has Close Encounter in Toronto APRO's Coral Lorenzen Dies Volume 9 Number 3, May/June 1988: Second Landing Trace on Haifa Beach, Isreal Drawing of UFO in Richmond Hill, Ontario Ontario Woman reports five Abductions Debate over MJ12 Aquarius Document Comments on Vogel's Analysis of Pleiadian UFO Material Volume 9 Number 4, July/August 1988: Former U.S. Military Officer's UFO Photographs Soil Analysis of September 28, 1987 Isreal Case University of Toronto's Analysis of Implant Nevada's UFO Vortex Zones shown on US Researcher's Map Live TV Special on UFO Cover-Ups Two Men report Daylight Disc in Thorold, Ontario, June 1988 Auto Engineer reports two large UFOs in 1979 & 1983 Volume 9 Number 5, September/October 1988: Startling Revelations on TV Show Daylight Disc report from 1915 CUFORN Reports available from Computer BBS Letters to the Editor CUFORN Member selling UFO Books in England Secret Memo on UFO Landing sent from Britain List of Videos, Audio Tapes, Magazines & Books Sources Volume 9 Number 6, November/December 1988: Multiple Witness of Daylight Close Encounter of Third Kind in Toronto "The Last Trumpet" Letter to the Editor Strange Encounters Two UFOs in Bramalea, Ontario in November, 1988 Swedish Member designs Radiation Physics Experiment Provoking Ending to "New Scientist" Article 1986 British Report, UFO or Helicopter? First European UFO Conference in Brussels, Belgium Volume 10 Number 1, January/February 1989: Toronto "Star" review of "Above Top Secret" Multiple Witness Close Encounter from Toronto CUFORN Member reports his own Sighting Multiple Witness UFO in Central Ontario Letter from William Steinman Calls from MUFON Consultant: Questionable Motives Volume 10 Number 2, March/April 1989: The Grand Deception, An Interview with John Lear (part 1) Letter to the Editor Volume 10 Number 3, May/June 1989: Third UFO Landing in Isreali Beach Analysis of Mailed Sample Interview with John Lear (part 2) UFO Sighting over Mount Archeluta, New Mexico Eric Arthur Walker's Background, MJ-12 Consultant Volume 10 Number 4, July/August 1989: Huge Cigar UFO Scorches Isreali Beach Third Time Radioactice Element found in landing trace "UFOs, MJ-12 & Government", highlights of New Research Paper Letters to the Editor Multiple Witness UFO of 1970's Spread Sheet of MUFON UFO events available Summary of 1988 MUFON Symposium in Vegas Film & Confession powerful elements for large audience Volume 10 Number 5, September/October 1989: Weekend Conference in Connecticut Over Priced Walker Update Light Phenomena and Techniques of the Future Recent Daylight Disc in Toronto by Psychiatrist Letter to the Editor UFOs return to Langenburg Furh claims Missing Time in 1974 Volume 10 Number 6, November/December 1989: Analysis of Powder left by Pillar of Fire in Isreal The Gray Aliens UFO & Bedroom Visitor Report in Toronto UFOs over Polish Borderland UFOs and Power Interruptions in British Columbia Former US Government Scientist Reveals Secrets of UFOs on TV Volume 11 Number 1, January/February 1990: Scientist claims work on UFO for U.S. Government Security Guard spots three tall aliens in Miami, Florida CUFORN starts Investigation of Crash-Retrieval, Carp, Ontario 11/04/89 Volume 11 Number 2, March/April 1990: Three Observers to Soviet Close Encounter in 1986 More Details on Previous Cover Photo CUFORN Member's Abduction Experience CUFORN Consultant produces Newletter for Psychotherapists CUFORN Member discusses Robert Lazar on Radio Letters to the Editor Volume 11 Number 3, May/June 1990: Abdcutee's Father was First to propose Genetic Abduction Theory MUFON Symposium features speakers from Three Countries MUFON's 1990 Symposium was "Resoundin Success" Most MUFON Speeches were dull Suggestions for future research Gulf Breeze Photos from Ed Walters Letters to the Editor There Ought to be a Law New TV Show about UFOs John Salter, Jr. "Medical Evidence" Abductees and Investigators will speak at UFO Conference Volume 11 Number 4, July/August 1990: Gulf Breeze case featured at MUFON Symposium CUFOS Photos shown in Oshawa Shopping Centre, Ontario More News on Robert Lazar Letter to the Editor Gulf Breeze Landing Traces Chris Rutkowski analyses 1989 Canadian UFO Wave Volume 11 Number 5, September/October 1990: Wrong Name given in Gulf Breeze Story Stewardess Reported Daylight UFO seen by Airline Crew, 1980 UFO Reported in British Columbia, 1989 Letter to the Editor Member's Personal view of 1990 Omega Conference Moore Criticizes CUFOS' Schmitt and Randle Salter draws large class with ET Course. Summary of 1990 NRC UFO Sightings for January to April Stanton Friedman oublishes "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" More to come on Carp Report New UFO group formed in Ottawa Volume 11 Number 6, November/December 1990: CUFORN gets own phone listing Going around in the wrong circles Two non-experts spoil Canadian UFO TV Show Scott Rogo Murdered CUFORN members may speak at First World UFO Congress in Tuscon, Az Book Review: "UFOs: A Sociopolitical View" Eight UFOs over Swiss City Soviet Fisherman abducted by four Blond Humanoids Hundreds Report UFOs to SOBEPS NUFOC Groups in Belgium during Major UFO Wave 1989-90 U.K. Analysis concludes powder not Terrestrial Volume 12 Number 1, January/February 1991: Blondes, MIBs and Reptilian Symbolic Cultural Conditioning UFOs and Security UFOs in Isreal during Gulf War Major UFO Conference Ignored by MUFON & CUFOS New UFO Classifications UFORIC lists B.C. UFO Reports for 1990 Letters to the Editor Volume 12 Number 2, March/April 1991: Letters to the Editor CUFOS UFO Photo exhibit tour of Saskatchewan and Alberta 1990 Candian UFO Survey, includes ten excellent cases Editor (Fenwick) spoke at First World UFO Congress One hour TV special on UFO Abductions featured CUFORN member Volume 12 Number 3, May/June 1991: Lack of publicity hurt UFO congress Co-host Wendelle Stevens reports $11,000 deficit Murphy's law ruined a speakers stay in Arizona Volume 12 Number 4, July/August 1991: Powerful speaches overcome hotel power failure at MUFON's 1991 International UFO Symposium Volume 12 Number 5, September/October 1991: Book Review: "UFOs over Canada" Letters to the Editor UFO Report from Japan UFO Report from Isreal Abductee lecturing in Toronto Probe of abduction reports delayed Volume 12 Number 6, November/December 1991: Author replies to book review Another letter from Ottawa regarding Carp Case Aliens are Gods? Three Toronto UFO Reports Earth's Second Moon New Chemical Elements Volume 13 Number 1, January/February 1992: Book Review: "Alien Liaison" UFO news from India "Green Light Beam" seen in Toronto Area by Dozens New Video from Lazar Letters to the Editor Engineering view of Lazar's Anti-Gravity Physics Recent UFO Sightings in Belgium, Portugal and USSR Possible Alien Visitors in Edmonton, Alberta Volume 13 Number 2, March/April 1992: Police chase banana-shaped UFO in Isreal Previous CUFORN chart may have been dis-information A most peculiar bolide Shedding new light on an old report Follow-up on "Green Light" Report Book Review: "Silent Invasion" The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO Researcher Letter to the Editor The Odyssey of Proof Flying Machines in Ancient India Notice for the "Guardian" Volume 13 Number 3, May/June 1992: Watching Earth Satellites over Toronto Two Toronto Reports Multiple Observation of Disc over Lake Ontario Orange Orbs over Toronto An Abduction Account UFORIC Summary of Reports 1991 Volume 13 Number 4, July/August 1992: Co-Director assisting two book authors Ontario Woman Videotapes Bright UFO Two Book Reviews Multiple UFOs reported in Major Canadian City Southern Ontario man reports multiple experiences A Toronto UFO Sighting Increase in Toronto Abdcution Reports Volume 13 Number 5 & 6, September/October/November/December 1992: Special Double Edition A Strange Call to CUFORN An even Stranger Story UFOs, a philosophical perspective Man has four encounters on two continents Updated UFO news Summary of Canadian UFO Reports 1990-92 UFO Researchers, Two Profiles Close encounter in Western Canada The UFO Experiences of "Alan Strongmore" The Role of the Ufologist in Abduction Cases Volume 14 Number 1, January/February 1993: Red Spots on Woman after Abduction Military Officer Reports Green Alien in Hungary Most Important UFO Cases, A Ufologist's Opinions Letter to the Editor Movie Review: "Fire in the Sky" Man Follows Red Ball in Mid-Air Book REview: "Crash at Corona" Summary of British Columbia UFOs for 1992 Volume 14 Number 2, March/April 1993: Glowing Human-Sized Alien Reported in Isreal UFO Landing Case Abductee says Aliens Fold Space to Travel Volume 14 Number 3, May/June 1993: More UFO Landing Traces, Kadima, Isreal UFO and Alien seen in Marginka, Hungary Close Encounter in Windsor, Ontario Canadian Officer Cadet reports UFO Engineer Technician saw Daylight Disc near Brighton Ontario UFO Flap UFOs reported in Caledon, Ontario UFO Landings in Hungary in 1986 & 1987 Ambulance Followed by Bell-Shaped UFO in Hungary Volume 14 Number 4, July/August 1993: Skeptical Artist changes opinion after Close Encounter in Hungary Larry Bryant's latest lawsuit regarding UFO Military Secrecy Betty Hill leaves Ufology Whitley Strieber ends Communion with Ufology "Wall Street Journal" covers "Operation Right to Know" Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR) starts abduction database Volume 14 Number 5, September/October 1993: Red Triangular Pattern appears on Observer's Arm Speculative Model of Abduction and Hormonal Manipulation Wishing on a Star Thoughts on Individual Flights, a form of local transport Summary of Reports from Asia Minor UFO Sighting by Major Leaguer Volume 14 Number 6, November/Decmber 1993 & Volume 15 Number 1, January/February 1994: (Double Issue) Two Doctors assist CUFORN in probe of multiple UFO abductions, a year-long investigation. Volume 15 Number 2, March/April 1994: Speculations on UFO Technology (part 1) Book Review "Alien Identities" Remote Mind Control Technology Volume 15 Number 3, May/June 1994: Speculations on UFO Technology (part 2) Three Formation of Yellow UFOs over Toronto Silent Triangle UFO in Surrey, BC Letter to the Editor Volume 15 Number 4 July/August 1994: (Double-Length Edition) Scientists Speak out at Bulgarian UFO Conference Volume 15 Number 5, September/October 1994: The Cognitive Interview Short Introduction to Cosmopolitics Linda Howe links Crop Circles & Cattle Mutilations UFOs in Toronto Talk Blinding White UFO seen over Lake Simcoe Six Speakers set for Spring by Toronto New Age Group Cambridge UFO Group ceases publication of Newsletter Volume 15 Number 6, November/December 1994: (Special Edition) Looking Back at UFOs - A Canadian Retrospective Volume 16 Number 1, January/February 1995: Editor & Lady Friend share Daylight Disc Sighting Michigan UFO report, CE1 Alien Implant scan by electron microscope Lab Tech's comments about Alien Implant Lab Analysis of Dagenais Alien Implant Budd Hopkins speaks to Large Toronto Crowd The International Roswell Initiative Volume 16 Number 2, March/April 1995: Mystery "Choppers" sighted at Trenton Air Force Base Book Review: "A History of UFO Crashes" Letter to the Editor Various Newspaper Clippings Volume 16 Number 3, May/June 1995: UFOs Shoot Light Beams at Welland Canal, Ontario News from the InterNet Multiple Witness to UFOin Shetland Islands, North Scotland White UFO "Zig-Zags" over Toronto, Ontario Canadian TV Network shows stills of Alien Autopsy The UFO Guide Clinical Discrepancies between Expected and Observed Data in witnesses reporting UFO Abductions Volume 16 Number 4, July/August 1995: Roswell Testimony from the Internet Letter to the Editor Discovery Channel to Air one hour show on UFOs in December Volume 16 Number 5 September/October 1995: RCMP report UFO in North West Territories (Canada) John Mack's idea similar to Ray Fowler's CUFORN Membership form Two UFOs reported over Toronto, Ontario Letter to the Editor A Beam of Light with Three Corners Alien Autopsy Film...a hoax? Volume 16 Number 6, November/December 1995: Multiple Witness UFO sighting report from National Research Council Brazilian Air Force Captain among four pilots to have UFO sighting Multiple Witness UFO report in letter to Editor Hungarian gets unusual Christmas Gift Eleven Alien Implants reported in Recent Scientific Paper Canada's X-Files reveal UFO sightings Volume 17 Number 1, January/February 1996: RCMP Report sent to National Research Council Letter to the Editor Alien Autopsy or "fraud-topsy" (reprint from TIME Magazine) Canadian Government Stops Collecting UFO Reports CUFORN's need for a Computer Volume 17 Number 2, March/April 1996: CUFORN member photographs a UFO UFO Book order form The Puerto Rico Monster Ancient Symbols shown to CUFORN Member & Alien Contactee TV Journalist cured by Aliens UFO Trivia - Musical Question Book Review: "Secret Vows" Alien Implants Volume 17 Number 3, May/June 1996: Early Texas UFOs, Project 1947 Spotlight on Jan Alderich of Project 1947 Book Review: "Fire in the Sky" UFO/Alien Theme returns to Hollywood Newspaper Clippings from Toronto, Ontario Volume 17 Number 4, July/August 1996: RCAF repair depot built flying saucer and flew it in 1953 CUFORN director's Missing Time Episode in 1950s Toronto Daylight Flying Saucer Report by CUFORN Member Book Review: "Unconventional Flying Objects" by Paul Hill Book Review: "Top Secret / Majic" by Stanton Friedman Penthouse's Alien Photos CUFORN Memeber reports "Zig-Zag" light over Toronto Volume 17 Number 5, September/October 1996: The Last Nubian, Ancient Aliens in History IFOs & Hoaxes outnumber Genuine Reports Last Two Months Possible Seachlight Sighting had Odd Features "One of the Stars Began to Move!" Book Review: "The Mysterious Valley" Book Review: "The Watchers II" Daylight Discs reported in Johannesburg, South Africa Argentina agog over UFO Volume 17 Number 6 November/December 1996: Ilkley Moor Police Abduction & Alien Photo Three West Coast UFO Sightings Review: Budd Hopkin's "Witnessed" Scientific Report: Ball Lightning & Electromagnetic Knots Volume 18 Number 1 January/February 1997: Alien Souvenir Given to a Human Men-In-Black (MIB) Investigation UFO Crash/Retrieval in Chile Von Daniken Speaks in Toronto Ufology's Losses Volume 18 Number 2 March/April 1997: The Recurrent Dreams of Orville Avion Daytime Close Encounter with 30 foot Flying Saucer Couple Report Egg-Shaped UFO near Nuclear Power Plant Travel Magazine mentions Rosell Incident Close Encounter of Third Kind in March, 1997 CUFORN Gets a Web Site Two UFO Sightings in Ottawa, Ontario in 1980
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 The odds are... From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:16:31 -0400 Subject: The odds are... LONDON, June 13 (Reuter) - Growing suspicion that there could well be "something out there" has led a British bookmaker to slash the odds on the discovery of extraterrestrial life. William Hill on Friday cut odds on humans making contact with other forms of intelligent life on or before January 1, 2000 to 33-1. William Hill spokesman Graham Sharpe said: "We've been lowering the odds over the past couple of months." They were 1,000-1 at one point, before falling to 100-1. "There was all the excitement about possible life on Mars, and now speculation about what lies beneath the seas on Jupiter's moons," he said. It was also possible that proof may already exist but not have been officially announced by governments. "People are beginning to accept that there is more and more out there, that more is known than has been given public airing." 09:54 06-13-97
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:06:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:17:10 -0400 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update June 14, 1997 __________________________ In this update: 194-Circle "Hexagon Snowflake" Formation at Stonehenge, Wiltshire, England New Crop Formation in West Meon, Hampshire, England Revised Diagram for "Harlequin Triangle" Circle For further details on these and previous news items, please see the CPR-Canada web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Keep checking for regular updates from England and around the globe, as well as news on 1997 Canadian circle formations __________________________ Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:44:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:15:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' > Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:41:54 -0400 > > Gary, having watched a TV show, writes: > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien > > Spaceship' > Gary might like to read the New York Times coverage of Thurmond's > most recent campaign. Apparently the citizens of South Carolina > elected a man who couldn't remember his opponent's name. Greg then cites to me un-named articles by un-named authors in the New York Times (the NY Times being a unbiased, apolitical, objective source of information). > Gary then notes: > My gosh, no. Senility is not the issue here. If Thurmond were > outright senile, I doubt he could function even as a US senator. But > there are many stops short of senility on the train of aging. I'm > thinking now of my poor mom, 91 years old, and living in a retirement > home. She doesn't remember very much now, but a year ago she could > have gone on C-Span and persuaded Gary to elect her to Congress. She > pulled herself together magnificently for visitors and public > occasions, and then with me and other members of the family would ask > questions like "Where am I living?" "What's chinese food?" and -- > this one brought a lump to my throat every time she said it -- "Why > was I so happily married"? I see, I misinterpreted your statement - you stop short of calling him senile instead just slamming him by degrees. > Of course, in Gary's view there's a reason why I'm slandering poor > Strom. No Greg I guess I should have imagined that you are doing so for no reason at all and with no prejudice, you just decided to spend your time and energy on a topic of little consequence. > ?Well I guess the people trying > > to discredit Corso will have to come up with a different pile of > ... > > hypothesis. At least one that is credible, one that doesn't allow > > the readers of a character assasination judge for themselves on > > televsion in a public forum, the person being discredited. > Oi vey. Obviously my slam at poor Strom didn't prevent any reader > from forming their own opinion after watching one, count it, one TV > show. Gary did exactly that. Slam him all you want. People will just formulate their own opinion as to why you have done so. > But what really irks me is the notion that I was trying to discredit > Corso. I don't recall saying word one about Corso in my post on > Thurmond. Why can't I express an opinion without being dragged into > someone else's fight? You are free to express any opinion, why not? What is this distraction you are making up about being involved in someone else's fight? Who do you think is fighting, about what? It seemed to me that there was a ongoing discussion about the credibility of the endorsement implied by Senator Strom Thurmond of Philip Corso by Thurmond having written the Foreword to the Corso book. Curiously, although Thurmond's staff has backpedaled none of them has said that Corso didn't know what he was talking about. Thurmond said that he (Thurmond) had no knowledge of a coverup or illegal operation regarding UFOs. However, Thurmond DIDN'T say that Corso couldn't have had such knowledge. If you would like to escalate this beyond a discussion , I can defend myself, flail on. > I have something delicious to close with, but first, on quite another > note, Gary asks: > > P.S. Please see my post regarding indexing of Ruppelt's book for > > reference use. > > If anyone can suggest a good indexing program please let me know. > Any major word processor can generate an index. You do have to work a > little -- you have to choose all the items you want the index to > include. But once you're finished, the program generates the index > automatically. (Maybe Gary could index "Witnessed" after he finishes > Ruppelt. For my IUR piece on the Linda case, I had to look up endless > details with no index...grrrrrr.....) I don't understand why you are being condescending here, e.g. "You have to work a little". For your information back before The Electric Pencil was a commercial product I wrote wrote in assembler, word processing and sorting programs. Let's see, I have used WordStar in all its variations, AmiPro and its predecessor and successor program WordPro. Word in all its variations too. These are old fashioned, non-professional programs only semi-automated for indexing. Which is why you find the indexing task so burdensome. What I hoping to solicit from the list was the experience of someone who is familiar with professional level indexing programs, where they are used in a analytic production environment. A number of years ago analyst, workstation level programs were developed which used AI technology and could scan a text or message traffic and summarize or generate an indexed product within a given knowledge domain. Now do you have an idea what I am after. Let me spell it out, back in the dark ages of personal level computing you had to sit and mark all the items of text you wanted the index to include. Been there, done that, and at one time had tools way beyond that. Now I wish to accomplish the same at home on a machine equipped with a Pentium II-266 processor, 64MB ram and 4GB hard drive with 1 GB removable disks to hold each text being processed. Willing to spend $$$ up to $500 or so for a program which has perculated downwards which can to take me out of the PC dark age. If there is someone reading this list with professional, production indexing experience that can suggest a program for this environment please e-mail me. Dilettantes please don't waste my time. > And now for dessert. There's a quiet member of our list who lives in > South Carolina, and has become my very dear e-mail friend. When the > Thurmond mess broke, he sent me this comment, which I'm posting with > his permission, for Gary's information and the rest of our amusement: I see, desert is more of the main course but now it has a different name. Now you offer us a un-named source to do your "slamming." Are we to presume the fact that your source lives in South Carolina makes this more authoritative! < snipped > > Greg Sandow Constructively, Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:24:28 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:18:03 -0400 Subject: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit British baffled by near-hit with UFO=20 The Ottawa Citizen=20 Fri, Jun 13 1997=20 LONDON -- Investigators are baffled by an apparent near-collision between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object over England.=20 The BAe 146, bound for Stansted in eastern England from Dublin, took evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them north of London.=20 The jet passed 30 metres above the object two seconds later.=20 The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a Hawk jet from the Royal Air Force's Red Arrows aerobatics team.=20 But searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts failed to find another aircraft in the area.=20 Investigators established that no Red Arrows aircraft flew that day, and checks on all other Hawks revealed that the last one to be airborne had landed four hours earlier.=20 Inquiries into the whereabouts of Gnat aircraft, which are similar to Hawks, also revealed no flights.=20 The possibility that an unregistered ex-military aircraft had taken off from a private airstrip was ruled ``inconceivable'' because radar would make detection a certainty.=20 Britain's Civil Aviation Authority group was set up to examine the incident, which happened last June.=20 It said yesterday there was no doubt the pilots ``saw something and agreed in some detail in their descriptions.''=20 Investigators speculated that the object could have been a model aircraft, an advertising balloon, or even plastic sheeting.=20 But the lack of radar evidence ``meant that members could feel reasonably certain that what had been seen was not an airplane,'' according to the aviation authority.=20 Similarly, the degree of risk to the jet from the incident was ``impossible to assess.''=20 *** Infomart-Online ***=20 (Copyright The Ottawa Citizen)=20 _____via IntellX_____=20 Copyright 1997, The Ottawa Citizen. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of The Ottawa Citizen content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of The Ottawa Citizen. The Ottawa Citizen shall not be liable for errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =BF =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:49:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:12:58 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:58:55 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON's Deuley And Stacy: Friends Or Foes? > >From: EdKomarek@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >MUFON's Thomas Deuley And Dennis Stacy: Friends Or Foes > >By Ed Komarek > >6/9/97 > Ed: > I forgot to mention in my last post that the June issue of the Journal also > has an unsparing review (I mean, attack) of Kal Korff's Roswell book by Karl > Pflock. > How do you explain that? Gary speaking here but not carrying water for anybody. Intelligence operations often run several individuals or teams who may be unknown to each other who will work for the same organization. These individuals or teams may even be intentionally pitted against each other to enhance their credibility to others not knowledgeable about the operation. Operational assets have even been sacrificed for the sake of achieving an operational goal (although the sacrificed asset usually has a hard time appreciating this). This is elementary intelligence tradecraft which has been practiced for hundreds if not thousands of years. This is not a revelation of any state secrets. > I though all of us debunkers were supposed to maintain a unified front, > never break ranks, criticize one another, et cetera. I have a hard time understanding why you would assume that. Intelligence operatives often find that confusion even chaos can serve to aid in the achievement of their objectives.(Anyone remember the xxCHAOS operations conducted by an intelligence organization in the United States?). I would say you have a good understanding of intelligence tradecraft as evidenced by the way you formulated and posed these questions. > I look forward to your conspiracy solution to this one. > Dennis What is your purpose is rhetorically raising the issue of conspiracy? Could it be to create confusion? First let me ask what is your definition of a conspiracy. The American Heritage dictionary defines it four ways: 1)"Agreement to perform together an illegal, treacherous or evil act." 2)"A group of conspirators." 3)"A combining or acting together, as if by evil design." 4)Law -"An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or to accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action." Which meaning of conspiracy are you using? For example, IF intelligence operatives are working in the UFO field and they agree to perform actions which are sanctioned by an LEGAL order they could not be said to be conspiring. They might be patriots, even true heroes. However, if they are doing something illegally... So what do you see as the difficulty in determining if people are involved in a conspiracy? Determining if they agree to perform certain actions or determining if those actions are illegal? Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jun 97 11:30:31 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:52:37 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:23:48 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 Don, I do not know if MJ-12 really exists, but if it does I think Sagan would certainly have been considered for membership. I do not discount anything you said. This is not a black and white universe, and most people involved fit somewhere into the gray area. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jun 97 11:30:29 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:52:00 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >Date: 14 Jun 97 20:20:21 EDT >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM>[Peter Brookesmith] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >In that case the possibility may also exist that >Queen Elizabeth II has been chairperson of MJ-12 since >1977, when she was elected to the position as part of >her Silver Jubilee celebrations. She knows or has known >everyone worth knowing in world politics, and can surely >keep a secret. Such as that there is an alien that has >been kept captive in Glamis Castle since the 18th century. Your Grace, I would accept your proposal, except for the fact that in paragraph 12, section B, subsection J of the MJ-12 Organization and Operations Manual, it specifically says that any person proposed for membership in MJ-12 must be a US citizen. And, shhhhhh! The alien at Glamis is a secret! IF MJ-12 exists, and please include the IF in any quotes, then who better than Sagan to be a member? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Military Records to be online soon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:54:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Military Records to be online soon << Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:08:37 -0400 From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Military Records to be online soon! > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:48:11 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Military Records to be online soon! > Today I recieved a copy of Jesse Marcel Snr.'s Military file. > Scott K. Hale Scott, << How about documenting the process you went through and how long it took for your successful acquisition of the documents. This maybe of interest to several list readers. You may recall a number of months ago one reader had attempted to obtain them but was told in a form letter that they had been lost when one of the service archives had a fire many years ago, etc. >> Scott obtained a copy from me. I obtained my copy from Kevin Randle, who obtained it from somewhere, but not through official channels. There are some recent debunking notations written here and there in the margins. So Randle's copy probably originated in the debunking camp, and the first source was probably Robert Todd, who allegedly obtained his copy through normal channels, although everybody else seems curiously unable to. Hope that answers your question. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 Re: Military Records to be online soon From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:13:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:56:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Military Records to be online soon >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:08:37 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Military Records to be online soon! >> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:48:11 -0700 >> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Military Records to be online soon! >> All, >> Today I recieved a copy of Jesse Marcel Snr.'s Military file. I will >> be scanning and cleaning up the pages as best I can and posting them on >> my www site. This is the beginning of my project/paper related to Jesse >> Marcel and Roswell. If any of you have government documents you would >> like scanned, just ask and I will gladly do the job for free, provided I >> get a copy of material for myself. Maybe the UFO archive should be >> online? >> Scott K. Hale >Scott, >How about documenting the process you went through and how long it took >for your successful acquisition of the documents. This maybe of >interest to several list readers. You may recall a number of months ago >one reader had attempted to obtain them but was told in a form letter >that they had been lost when one of the service archives had a fire many >years ago, etc. >Gary Alevy That "reader" already contacted Scott and learned that he had obtained a copy of those records from another researcher, and not from the Military Personnel Records Center, or the National Personnel Records Center. I've got a researcher's set coming my way as well, but I'm still trying to get an "official" set. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 24 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:06:28 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 24 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 24 June 15, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor PARISIAN SUBURBS SEE TWO UFO OVERFLIGHTS Two communities in the southwest "peripherique" (suburbs) of Paris reported sightings of UFOs on Saturday, May 31, 1997. The first incident took place at 5:25 p.m. in Rambouillet, a city 24 kilometers (15 miles) southwest of Paris. Jean-Marc Ricca and his wife were relaxing in the park in front of Rambouillet Castle while their two children were playing nearby. Suddenly, "My eyes were caught by a bright light above our head," Jean-Marc reported. "The sun was already low, and the light was really bright. What appeared surprising to me was that the light could be identified with a somewhat cylindrical object...I first thought of a plane but strangely the object was very high in the sky with very high speed (direction:north to south). The object didn't show any condensation trail, which was very easy to check because Paris skies are full of planes." "But the surprise came when we spotted five other objects," he added, "Same shape, same brightness, very close to the first one. The total number was six, with the first five in a rather regular formation with the sixth a little bit further away. We were then convinced that what we were looking at was not usual. The overall observation lasted for five minutes at (in) bright sunlight. I would summarize it this way...high-speed flying objects at medium to high altitude, probably spherical shape, no condensation trail--looks metallic because they were highly illuminated by sunlight." (Email Interview) Nearly four hours later, at 9:05 p.m. on May 31, photographer Gerard Wander was standing in the Place Denfers-Rochereau, near the Parc du Prince, in the nearby city of Boulogne-Billancourt. While watching a playoff rugby game, Wander and his wife "observed in the sky over the apartment houses what we first took for a children's balloon, then for an atmospheric balloon. From it dangled two long cables as rigid as tree trunks." "The object flew slowly from the east (Paris) to the west (Sevres)," Wander reported. "It presented a surface of a shiny aluminum color which reflected the setting sun in our east. When it moved to the west, the front part became cloaked in shadow." In size, the UFO "appeared similar to a 5 centimes piece held at the end of one's arm." Wander said. "About 15 millimeters. The shorter of the cables was 3 times the length of the object's diameter. The longer cable was 5 or 6 times that size. Its altitude was difficult to determine. I would say between 150 meters (4,950 feet) and 800 meters (26,400 feet). In relation to the sun, it passed within 200 meters (6,600 feet) of us. Its east-west trajectory was slowly ascending. I saw it for one minute, then the trees blocked my view. We changed our position but by then there was nothing to see but a black sphere in a clear blue sky, much further away in the sky." (Merci beaucoup a Marie Franck et Banque OVNI pour cette histoire.) UFOs ACTIVE AGAIN IN EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA At 11:15 p.m. on Thursday, June 5, 1997, Tadd P. was looking out the window of his home in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania (population 3,422) "when something caught my eye." Fleetwood is on Route 662 about 72 miles (115 kilometers) northwest of Philadelphia and 15 miles (24 kilometers) northeast of Reading. "I have no idea what made me look up, but for some strange reason I found myself looking directly out my window," Tadd said, "I spotted an object moving slowly for a split-second. All of a sudden, there was an extremely bright flash. I saw a circular structure when the object flashed (but) there was no pulsing that I could see." "The flash was then followed by a long narrow streak. From the time the craft left my sight, the streak followed behind it as if the object was moving faster than light. I would say the object was about a mile up in the sky (600 meters), and the circular size of the object was about the size of a penny held six inches from your eye." "My father (Jack P.) was watching television when I saw the first white UFO. We went outside seconds afterward, then we saw the second strange object... a strange bright red steady-flashing light moving slowly over the woods near (the) DEKA Batteries (factory). It then came to a halt, turned blue, and moved in the opposite direction, then vanished from our sight into the trees. I am hoping that someone else has seen it because I can't possibly be the only one." (Email Interview) On Wednesday, June 12, 1997, at midnight, Edward D. went out on his backyard deck at his home near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania (population 53,264) and "noticed a bright light pass right overhead, no sound and no strobe lights. It moved from the northwest, going southeast. A second light fitting the same description followed only seconds later--same course, just higher." Ed reported that the mysterious lights "passed directly over Harrisburg, moving toward Lancaster County." (Email Interview) NEW SIGHTING REPORTED NEAR CAMDEN, N.Y. On Wednesday, May 28, 1997, Cathy K. was on her farm in Altmar, New York, just about 15 miles (24 kilometers) from Camden (population 2,667), the site of a UFO flap that week, when she also spotted "orange lights in the sky." "I noticed the orange lights in the sky and told my husband about them," Mrs. K. reported, "The lights were shaped in triangle shape and did not appear to move for hours. They were almost the same size as stars but just a little larger. I first noticed them at 9:30 (p.m.) when I was leaving the horses at the barn. I live on a hill and watch the sky often." Cathy says tiny rural Altmar frequently plays host to UFOs. "Sometimes I see lights that appear to be a star almost at the horizon and then suddenly move up straight or to the size extremely fast. I am unable to explain these lights, but I see them often." (Email Interview) STRANGE LIGHTS SPOTTED NEAR WAUKEGAN, ILLINOIS A man living in Lake County near Waukegan, Illinois (population 67,653), about 28 miles (45 kilometers) north of Chicago, on the western shore of Lake Michigan was out walking his dog when he spotted "what first appeared to be a satellite going across the sky." The sighting took place on Monday, June 9, 1997, at 10:45 p.m. "As an avid skywatcher, I am able to tell a satellite when I see it," he reported, "This time the light--it simply appeared as a light very faint and high in the sky--was getting brighter and then fading to a very dim light. It was not multiple lights but the entire object would get brighter and then dim...The intensity varied slowly, and it was regular. not sporadic. I watched it as far as I could see, and it continued north in a straight path." (Email Interview) UFO FLAP STIRS MANY IN CAMBRIDGESHIRE UFOs have been seen repeatedly around the town of Saffron Walden, Cambs. in the UK. The flap began March 12 when a group of university graduates spotted a UFO while holding a bonfire on Mill Road in Cambridge. "At first we thought it was a fighter plane," Phil Andrews, 24, said, "And we watched it for about 10 seconds moving south. Then it just shot off in an arc shape at ridiculous speed. There was no sound." On May 1, 1997, a father and son living on Radwinter Road in Saffron Walden, Cambs. spotted "a huge red object" hovering above the motorway. Two weeks later, on May 14, several people in the two reported sighting UFOs. One of them was Janice Wayback, who said, "My cat saw it first and suddenly sat up. I looked out nd saw what I originally thought was a firework but it carried on floating towards Ridgeons. I can't imagine what it could have been. My cat was fascinated." Another resident reported seeing "a very strange rocket-like thing in the sky" near Saffron Walden County High School. "It moved quite fast and it was not a plane. It was a red gold colour." Tina McCauley was making a telephone call from her home on Ashdon Road in Saffron Walden when she spotted "a round red-gold circular object. It seemed to have two rows of lights around the circumference. It was high enough to light up the sky. It made no noise. It just moved slowly and disappeared over Whiteshot Way." (See the British newspaper Saffron Walden Weekly News for May 22, 1997. Many thanks to SkyCam for sending us this news story.) UFO SEEN OVER LITHUANIA On May 12, 1997, at 4:15 p.m., five people in the village of Ginkunai in western Lithuania spotted a daylight disc flying overhead. Ginkunai is near the city of Siaulai, approximately 140 kilometers (84 miles) northwest of Vilnius, capital of the small European nation on the shores of the Baltic Sea. One eyewitness, Kestutas Nesavas, described the UFO as "a saucer animated by a pulsation like a heart, with lights like a (car's) direction signal." Nesvas was the first to see the saucer. He called his wife and three neighbors. According to their testimony, the saucer approached to within 10 meters (33 feet) of them, always in perfect silence, before flying away. (Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier pour ces nouvelles.) UFO STARTLES MOTORISTS IN THE CANARY ISLANDS The night of April 27, 1997, UFOs appeared at several locations on Tenerife Island in Spain's Islas Canarias (Canary Islands) group, off the coast of North Africa. The first sighting took place southwest of Santa Cruz de Tenerife and La Laguna, near the airport. Motorists driving south to La Orotava when they spotted "a static and luminous object that was not like any aeronautical, astronautical or astronomical form known." The witnesses, who stopped their cars on the road, described the UFO as "greater than a star though less (smaller) than the moon, of a pale yellow color." They observed the object for "more than 20 minutes" before it flew away to the northeast. Pedro C., a Spanish tourist from Barcelona, was staying at Room 216 at the Aparthotel Jarden Caletas in the fishing village of Las Caletas on Tenerife when he happened to step onto the hotel room balcony at 11 p.m. He spied "a yellowish light that was (moving) from the coast toward the interior of the island," i.e. travelling from the southwest to the northeast. He watched the UFO for 15 minutes, during which time "it projected a fantastic sparkle and thereinafter disappeared." (Muchas gracias a Pedro Canto y tambien Jose Gregorio Gonzalez Gutierrez of Tenerife, quien escribe el libro LOS OVNIS EN CANARIAS para esas noticias.) BLACK TRIANGLES SIGHTED ALL AROUND AUSTRALIA On Sunday, April 6, 1997, at 4:30 p.m., people in Liverpool, a suburb of Sydney, Australia spotted "a flying black rectangular object with a red/orange illumination underneath" heading for downtown Sydney. A police sergeant "estimated the object to be approximately 6 feet by 4 feet by 4 feet in size, jet black with a bright light underneath and its speed was about 120 knots traveling to the east from the northwest. Its height appeared about 1,500 feet in altitude; no sound was heard; and the weather was clear with no wind." On Friday, April 11, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., some people in Melbourne, Victoria (Vic.) sighted "a large matte black triangular shaped object slowly traveling from west to east. The object was sighted blocking out the view of the stars as it passed over." The following day, Saturday, April 12, 1997, at 9:10 p.m., witnesses spotted "five bright orange illuminations in a triangle formation heading to the southeast" over Campbelltown, New South Wales (N.S.W.), about 40 miles (64 kilometers) southwest of Sydney. Ten days later, on Tuesday, April 22, 1997, at 8:50 p.m., people in the Newscastle and Wallsend area of New South Wales reported "sighting a large black delta or triangular shaped object traveling overhead, followed by three yellow/orange ball lights" at an estimated altitude of 2,000 to 3,000 feet and at an estimated speed of 80 to 100 kilometers per hour. On Monday, April 28, 1997, a family was driving their motor vehicle down the Pacific Highway from Newcastle, N.S.W. to Sydney. Then, at about 7 p.m., the 11 witnesses "encountered a triangular red illumination (that) pass(ed) over their motor vehicle on the highway to Sydney. The object slowly traveled over the 11 witnesses about 40 meters (132 feet) up and, once passed over, shot off at a great speed to the east." (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for forwarding these sightings.) GLOWING UFOs SEEN OVER AUSTRALIAN DESERTS On Tuesday, April 8, 1997, people in Fremantle, Western Australia (W.A.), a city about 20 miles (32 kilometers) south of the state capital of Perth, saw a strange glowing UFO. The sighting took place at 10:45 p.m. The witnesses saw "a flouro (flourescent) green illumination descend about 1,000 feet and then hover. After a moment or two, the object then rocketed off to the north faster than a jet could travel. The illumination appeared like a line or green tube with bent ends that angled up at about 40 degrees, something like the wing's end of a (Boeing) 747 jumbo jet. The object was first seen slowly floating down (and) surprised the respondents when it stopped and more so when it 'rocketed off into a cloud.'" Less than a week later, more glowing UFOs were reported over the deserts of northwestern Victoria state. On Monday, April 14, 1997, at 6:15 p.m., people in Horsham, Vic. reported "sighting a very large ball illumination overhead heading toward South Australia." Horsham is 200 miles (320 kilometers) northwest of Melbourne, adjacent to the Little Desert National Park. The same evening, at 6 p.m., witnesses living in Ouyen, Vic., 250 miles (400 kilometers) northwest of Melbourne in the desert "Sunset Country," saw a "bright ball of light hovering above them for about 15 minutes before taking off towards the west." (Again, many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for these reports.) CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN OVER SARNIA, ONTARIO On Sunday, April 20, 1997, a woman was sitting on a park bench along the St. Clair River in Sarnia, Ontario (population 55,576) at approximately 1:40 p.m. when she spied a UFO. "Directly in front of her suddenly appeared a greyish-white object, suspended in mid-air, with the bottom part of the object positioned at 25 degrees above the horizon. The town of Port Huron, Michigan (USA) was in the background, underneath the object, at the other side of the river." "The object was a long tube-like shape, rounded at both ends, and fuzzy or diffuse around all edges. It was suspended vertically and its apparent size was about one inch or so along its vertical axis and perhaps 3/8 (of an) inch across its lateral axis." "Her attention was then taken by a white spherical object which seemed to have been discharged from the original object. This white sphere traveled a short distance, perhaps three inches apparent distance northwards toward Lake Huron and vanished." The witness had the cigar-shaped UFO in view for about five seconds before it too disappeared. (Many thanks to Joe Daniels for this report.) from the UFO Files... 1950: LAST CALL FOR NORTHWEST 2501 On Friday, June 23, 1950, Northwest Airlines Flight 2501, a Douglas DC-4 airliner with four propellor engines, took off from New York City on its way to Minneapolis, Minnesota. "Flying the DC-4 was Capt. Robert C. Lind. To his right was co-pilot Verne F. Wolfe. In the passenger section were stewardess (flight attendant) Bonnie A. Feldman and 55 passengers." As the DC-4 "Air Coach" passed over Battle Creek, Michigan, Capt. Lind notified Air Traffic Control by radio, "Northwest 2501, Battle Creek at 37 (That's 11:37 p.m.-- J.T.) past the hour. Estimating Milwaukee at 51. (11.51 p.m.--J.T.) Level 3,500. (3,500 feet above sea level or 1,100 meters)." Hoping to avoid thunderstorms on Lake Michigan just north of Chicago, Illinois, Capt. Lind changed course between Battle Creek and the Lake Michigan shore. The plane headed in a northwesterly direction and began crossing the lake at a point between South Haven and Ludington. The aircraft and all 58 people aboard were never seen again. The U.S. Coast Guard began a search of Lake Michigan at 2 a.m. on Saturday, June 24, 1950. "An air-sea search for the giant DC-4 air coach was concentrated about 12 miles northwest of St. Joseph, Mich. when a Coast Guard lifeboat from South Haven recovered items from the plane." "They were blankets with the markings 'NW' flanked by wings, a log book and a maintenance chart. Hope was virtually abandoned for any survivors after the discovery of the wreckage and fragments of bodies, making it the worst tragedy (up until 1950) of American commercial aviation." In last year's Valujet and TWA Flight 800 cases, both of which went down over water, there were easily identifiable "debris fields." In the case of TWA 800, the debris fields floated on the ocean for weeks after the crash. There was no debris field in the case of Northwest 2501, merely a handful of items recovered and a few "fragments of bodies." At 2 a.m. on June 24, 1950, "two White Fish Bay, Wis. (Wisconsin) policemen were disturbed by what they saw hovering in the sky above Lake Michigan. The men noticed the object several miles out on the lake east-southeast of their position (heading west from Ludington--J.T.). They watched the eerie red object glowing for ten minutes. Then it disappeared." The UFO report from White Fish Bay, a suburb of Milwaukee, came just two hours after Capt. Lind's last call to Air Traffic Control. What happened to Northwest 2501 that night over Lake Michigan is still a mystery. (See the book THE GREAT LAKES TRIANGLE by Jay Gourley, Fawcett Gold-Medal Books, Greenwich, Connecticut, 1977, pages 8 and 34. Also, the Pawtuxet Valley Daily Times of West Warwick, R.I. for June 24, 1950, page 1, and June 26, 1950, page 6.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: To keep up with UFO sightings in Spain, try Pedro Canto's great site, Nuevas UFO Noticias, at this URL: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/ppcanto. For UFO news from Croatia and the Balkan countries, visit Berislav "Bero" Kucan's website at http://jagor/srce.hr/~bkucan Crop circle news can be found at this site: http://www.sedona-goodtimes.com/~amlight/research.htm Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, with its marvelous array of features. We're at this URL: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check us out at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/index.shtml If you see a UFO story in your local newspaper, clip it out and send it to our email address at UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886. If you have a UFO to report, email us at this address: Masinaigan@aol.com. Well, that's it for this week. To our readers in Quebec, "Joyeux Jour de St. Jean Baptiste." See you next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their Websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 15 New Roswell 'Magazine' From: drjackryan@juno.com (John P Ryan) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:04:43 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:35:33 -0400 Subject: New Roswell 'Magazine' Today I picked up a new "Magazine" called "THE COMPLETE ROSWELL UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA", a Special 50th Anniversary Collectors' issue. The Magazine is not dated, but by the bar code it says "MVP 1997". It is a very interesting and information packed magazine filled with pictures and documents. Most of the photographs are copyright by XFX, Inc. and it says special thanks to Steve Johnson." I suppose he works there or owns the company. If anyone has any information on XFX, Inc. or Steve Johnson, please e-mail me with the information. Also, pick up a copy of the magazine, it should be available to everyone soon. --- Jack
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Jim Marrs interview on CNN International From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:34:13 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:38:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Jim Marrs interview on CNN International Hi List, I saw Jim Marss on CNN International. However, I dropped in the program somewhere toward the end. I tried to watch the rerun of it but that was replaced by a forum discussion on the McVeigh verdict. So I only have a few snippets of the interview. Marss thinks: . The configuation of the pyramids on Mars and the moon are similar to those of the pyramids of Gizah UFOs are real material objects, perhaps interdimensional or from another time. The reasons for the secrecy were originally that the military saw a potential weapon in the ET technology. Now the economic powers are clinging to their monopolies that would be broken up by revealing the truth about UFOs. Through the Internet information reaches more people. Movies like Independence Day and Men in Black raise the consciousness about what is going on. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:37:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:43:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:13 +0200 >Subject: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (fwd) Stig submitted a "Special Report by Col. Wilson": >On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We >received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint US/British >NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing where we would >be met by a Special Delta Force team. Who exactly are "we" and who issued the command? Is there any reason to believe this isn't a bogus story? >We were to contact the Base Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor... Wouldn't that have been Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams, or Colonel Ted Conrad? >...and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The Deputy Base Commander >about the UFO sighting and landing there. We were to view the >complete filming including the landing. This presumably being a reference to the alleged landing claimed to have been witnessed by Larry Warren. The evidence supporting that story is not too strong. Why no apparent interest in the triangular-shaped object witnessed at length in the forest a couple of night's previously? It's possible authenticity is supported by a number of cohesive accounts and it's a report which Colonel Halt (ret.) still stands by. As none of the witnesses to that event claim it was filmed and as Halt is adamant the events he witnessed in the forest a couple of nights later weren't filmed either, what film was there to watch? >Our investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in the >grass... Uh-oh...it wasn't perchance...please say it wasn't.... >This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) Oh good grief. >The film was immediately sent to a special office in the Pentagon >designated OSIP (This changes constantly to avoid detection). Of course. >We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the arrival of the craft. But forget to ask Colonel Halt not to make an official report of the other incidents, which there were witnesses to corroborate. Stig, where did this story originate? James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Elaine Douglass To Speak On CNN Tomorrow From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:41:45 -0400 Subject: Elaine Douglass To Speak On CNN Tomorrow ORTK's Elaine Douglass To Speak On CNN Tomorrow I recieved a call this afternoon from CNN wanting me to speak tomorrow morning in a discussion on the new UFO poll numbers that are out. This discussion is to be at 7:00 am eastern standard time tommorow June 16. I live about 5 hours from Atlanta and could not make it but I gave the lady at CNN Elaine's number in Washington. She contacted Elaine and I am told Elaine is to be on in the morning. The lady also mentioned Phill Klass's name is passing but I don't know if he will be on too or not. I live out in woods in South GA and don't get CNN so let me know how it goes folks. Good luck Elaine. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) ------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter. --------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Military Records to be online soon! From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:08:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:00:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Military Records to be online soon! > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:48:11 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Military Records to be online soon! > All, > Today I recieved a copy of Jesse Marcel Snr.'s Military file. I will > be scanning and cleaning up the pages as best I can and posting them on > my www site. This is the beginning of my project/paper related to Jesse > Marcel and Roswell. If any of you have government documents you would > like scanned, just ask and I will gladly do the job for free, provided I > get a copy of material for myself. Maybe the UFO archive should be > online? > Scott K. Hale Scott, How about documenting the process you went through and how long it took for your successful acquisition of the documents. This maybe of interest to several list readers. You may recall a number of months ago one reader had attempted to obtain them but was told in a form letter that they had been lost when one of the service archives had a fire many years ago, etc. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 00:20:03 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:16:58 -0400 Subject: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 The Duke of M. presents his compliments to the List and wishes Mr Shell the top o' the mornin' besides. >Date: 15 Jun 97 11:30:29 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CAUS - _JUST CAUSE_ #50 >paragraph 12, section B, subsection J of the MJ-12 Organization >and Operations Manual, it specifically says that any person >proposed for membership in MJ-12 must be a US citizen. But did I not read, many moons ago, and perhaps on this very List, something to the effect that contrary to popular (mis)conception, the entire USA is still a British possession & ergo is ruled by Her Britannic Majesty? Something to do with the Dauphin, I believe. I admit there may still be technical & constitutional difficulties over whether HM Queen can both own and be a citizen of a country. But as a constitutional monarch she is not above the law, and does pay taxes. At least, she *says* she does. >And, shhhhhh! The alien at Glamis is a secret! S!!!t, sorry. >IF MJ-12 exists, and please include the IF in any quotes, then >who better than Sagan to be a member? I leave that to others to speculate upon. My problem is the IF. But the wisdom (and territorial possessions) of our beloved Sovereign remain pertinent, in that if you go for one conspiracy theory, it's difficult to know where to stop or what to exclude. As this brief post is veering dangerously near to a jagged reef of seriousness, I shall adjust my non-reflecting collective and throb off into the sunset forthwith. Peregrine M. "Prince of the Black Choppers"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Kent Jeffery's Debunking Article In The MUFON From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:08:40 -0400 Subject: Kent Jeffery's Debunking Article In The MUFON I have in my possession a copy of Kent Jeffery's Roswell debunking article. In my opinion it is exactly that, pure debunkery. I suppose it is not appropriate to quote any of the article before publication. I am certian this article will be taken apart easly on Updates by the experenced honest researchers. The most troubling part of the article is that it appears that Jeffery may still be intent on delivering the petitions to the White House along with a cover letter to the President during the week of the Roswell 50th anniversary in Washington. Jeffery has got to know that his own position now against Roswell will completely undermine the the petition in the press. I can already see the Washington AP, Washington Post, New York Times and LA Times devoting one third of their articles to the petition and the other two thirds to Jeffery undermining the drive with his personal statement. All of the above have carried very negative UFO related articles and will have a field day with this. I just pray that we will be so lucky that this will not get national press coverage but I bet the press are already set up for this. In my opinion this is a brillant tactical move on Jeffery's part and that Jeffery is no friend of the UFO community. I don't know that at this late date that the others involved in this petition drive will be able to stop this move if indeed Jeffery delivers the petitions himself.(The article does not state that Jeffery will deliver the petitions but it seems to be implied. ) We need people in Washington that believe in the Roswell case and the petition drive wherever Jeffery has his press conference. I call on Kent Jeffery to respect the 20 thousand plus signers of the petition and to remove himself completely from this project. I ask him to put out a personal definative statement saying that he has removed himself. He owes this to all the signers of the petition. The best, Ed Komarek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:17:56 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:23:17 -0400 Subject: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici Dear Friends, I suppose you may be interested in the new Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (Italy's most respected UFO organization, according to worldwide UFO researchers) - C.I.S.U. - e-mail: cisu@ufo.it Any request for information or general-purpose enquiry may be routed to it. Sincerely, Maurizio Verga mauverga@tin.it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:11:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:54:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien Spaceship' Well, to be perfectly constructive.... > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Thurmond Disputes Book on 'Alien > Spaceship' Gary, having said he watched C-SPAN, says he thought Strom Thurmond seemed coherent, I, having said I'd read something to the contrary in the New York Times, said Thurmond apparently didn't know his opponent's name during his last campaign. Upon my mentioning the NY Times piece, Gary writes: > Greg then cites to me un-named articles by un-named authors in the > New York Times (the NY Times being a unbiased, apolitical, > objective > source of information). Yes, my unnamed NY Times article vs. your unnamed C-SPAN telecast. I could easily retrieve the NY Times piece from the library or perhaps even from their website, but would it matter? You've left yourself an out in your parenthesis. You're prepared to reject anything you read in the Times (and, presumably any media source) that you'd rather not believe. Why, by the way, would the Times want to slander Thurmond? Just curious.... But now let's get back to what, for me, is the saddest part of all this. I wrote: > > But what really irks me is the notion that I was trying to > > discredit > > Corso. I don't recall saying word one about Corso in my post on > > Thurmond. Why can't I express an opinion without being dragged > > into > > someone else's fight? > You are free to express any opinion, why not? > What is this distraction you are making up about being involved in > someone else's fight? Who do you think is fighting, about what? > It seemed to me that there was a ongoing discussion about the > credibility of the endorsement implied by Senator Strom Thurmond of > Philip Corso by Thurmond having written the Foreword to the Corso book. > Curiously, although Thurmond's staff has backpedaled none of them > has said that Corso didn't know what he was talking about. Thurmond > said that he (Thurmond) had no knowledge of a coverup or illegal > operation regarding UFOs. However, Thurmond DIDN'T say that Corso >couldn't have had such knowledge. > If you would like to escalate this beyond a discussion , I can > defend myself, flail on. Sigh. Maybe I can explain myself more clearly if I begin with a small digression. Not a long ago I wrote a private message to a good ufological acquaintaince, in which I said something highly critical of Kal Korff. In reply, my friend somewhat tersely acknowledged what I said, but pointed out that, in his view, Kevin Randle's work, too, had some problems. This, to me, was irrelevant. I wasn't engaging in the larger Roswell debate, about what really crashed. I hadn't crowed with triumph, saying "See? Kevin was right after all!" I'd simply criticized Korff. In my mind, it's perfectly possible for the Roswell crash to have been a Mogul balloon, AND for Korff's book to be untrustworthy. That's because it's important to understand that a book, an article, or even a short e-mail message has to be judged on more than its conclusions. Someone can be on your side, in some great debate, and still be full of spit from the first word to the last. (I kinda felt that way when I voted for Bill Clinton.) Whatever the Roswell object might have been, I simply feel that Korff's book is too wildly unreliable to be accepted as a contribution to the debate. So then my friend responds with criticism of Kevin Randle. That's what I mean about dragging me into another fight. People are fighting over the nature of the Roswell crash, and suddenly, by criticizing Korff, I've taken sides! Now, apparently, I'm responsible for everything that Kevin ever said, and, for all I know, Stan Friedman and Kent Jeffries, too. (I've run into that before, of course. It's rampant in politics, one of my favorite avocations. If I take the conservative side in some issue, a few of my liberal friends will react as if I just supported Pat Robertson for president. And David Brock, the well-known convservative journalist, has just been exiled by his former right-wing supporters because he wrote a book on Hillary Clinton, and concluded that she really wasn't so bad. Of course, I read this about Brock in a newspaper -- the NY Daily News, this time -- so maybe Gary thinks it's not true!) Back to Thurmond. I get fascinated by the Thurmond fracas. I note that one factor in any possible explanation might be Thurmond's mental state, something you wouldn't have to take into account had the senator in question been somebody else. And therefore, in Gary's view, I'm making a comment about Philip Corso! Armies are gathering....war clouds loom...inquiring minds are squaring off, as they certainly should, to debate whether Corso's telling the truth. And, yes, it would certainly help Corso's cause if anyone could prove that Thurmond knew the UFO secrets, too, and endorsed the book because he wanted them to be public. But the question of Thurmond's competence is an entirely separate thing, since it rests on things in the public record that have nothing to do with Corso or UFOs. If we can't weigh each detail in one of these debates on its own merits, we'll never get anywhere. We'll each be stuck following our biases, with no hope of ever settling anything. (And, you know, Thurmond could know the UFO secret, want to blab the UFO secret, and STILL be out to mental lunch five days a week.) Finally, with a deep sigh, I find Gary saying, about my computer comment: > I don't understand why you are being condescending here, e.g. "You > have to work a little". For your information back before The Electric > Pencil was a commercial product I wrote wrote in assembler, word processing > and sorting programs. Let's see, I have used WordStar in all its variations, > AmiPro and its predecessor and successor program WordPro. Word in all its > variations too. These are old fashioned, non-professional programs > only semi-automated for indexing. Which is why you find the indexing > task so burdensome. What I hoping to solicit from the list was the > experience of someone who is familiar with professional level indexing > programs, where they are used in a analytic production environment. [etc.] Gary, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I certainly wasn't condescending. You hadn't said any of this in your original question. I serve as an informal (and, on one occasion) paid computer consultant to many of my friends, and the vast majority of questions that I see posed, both on- and offline, are fairly basic. Doubtless I jumped to a conclusion about what you meant, but in my defense, I'd say that -- given the context in which there questions are usually asked -- you said nothing to show me what you really meant. I was only trying to be helpful, though maybe I didn't make that clear, either. On a larger indexing issue, I've scanned quite a bit of text, using what's currently the top-rated OCR program, OmniPage Pro. Maybe there are professional-level scanners and OCR engines far better than what I've got, but based on my experience, I think it might actually be quicker to index a short book like Ruppelt's by hand, than to scan every page, and correct the text. The advantage of scanning it, of course, would be that then we'd have a searchable text (which would make an index unnecessary for anyone with a computer.) If I were indexing something myself, I'd want to include abstract concepts (like, say, Budd Hopkins' several comments about the aliens' supposed intentions, in "Witnessed"), and I doubt an indexing program of any kind would be deeply helpful there. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Report on the SSE Conference in Las Vegas [Rumors From: Museum Curator <beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:28:36 -0400 Subject: Report on the SSE Conference in Las Vegas [Rumors To UFOs Insiders list: From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Subject: Report on the SSE Conference in Las Vegas [Rumors & Innuendo] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:37:07 -0800 I was on vacation last week, so I did not go to the Society for Scientific Exploration conference in Las Vegas, June 5-7, but it looks like I didn't miss much. Two attendees briefed me. One journalist said there were a lot of bright, high-powered scientists there, but she decribed their lectures as "sophomoric," not the sort you would expect at a professional conference. Jacques Vallee's lecture was "Flying Saucers 101," she said. This journalist, working for a national magazine, had trouble getting people to talk to her. Vallee would not. (Evidently, Vallee is withdrawn from the field for all practical purposes.) All the people associated with the Bigelow organization also seemed hard-to-get. (Bigelow is very secretive and requires no-disclosure agreements from fundees and employees -- which all contributes to the Great Bigelowian Conspiracy now circulating on the net.) The semi-mysterious John Alexander spoke at the conference. My first source described him as "creepy," but my other source thought his lecture was the best of those given. Alexander talked about the Bigelow organization. He described their game plan and seemed to directly address the conspiracy rumors on the net. Alexander emphasized that "no tea money" was used in the organization. (Robert Bigelow is not the same as Bigelow Tea, as alleged on the net.) The National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS) apparently has two scientists on staff. (As I recall, there is a biologist working on cattle mutilations and a physicist working on propulsion systems. One is a former NASA scientist.) My second source thought the NIDS plan sounded respectable, at least as described by Alexander. (Fortunately, Alexander's talk probably won't be heard beyond those directly attending the conference, and the NIDS web site gives little info. This is good, because the Great Bigelowian Conspiracy is getting to be a lot of fun on the net, and it would be sad to see it brought down to earth.) See NIDS at: http://www.accessnv.com/nids/ Alexander: www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/a/alexander/ Bigelow: www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/b/bigelow/ A humorous tidbit: The Bigelow people are now referring to themselves as the "Aviary", no doubt inspired by the fine work of Dr. Boylan. (Reality immitates conspiracy.) [I want a bird name! I want, I want, I want!] My other source found the conference mildly worthwhile, if only because it "scratched an itch," but he wouldn't go again. He said there appeared to be a lot of "networking" going on in the background which he was not privy to, and he thought that this was the main value of the conference for most attendees. There were a lot of cocktail conversations about statistical variations and other technical topics. Physicist/remote viewing researcher Hal Puthoff was seen heavily networking, and he was also the "M.C." for one of the conference days. See our Puthoff Page at www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/p/puthoff/ Local conference sponsor Dean Radin, a parapsychology researcher at UNLV, was described by my first source as "a little gnome" and by the second as small fellow "wound up just a wee bit too tight." See our Radin Page at www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/r/radin/ A pre-conference story appears in the June 2 Las Vegas Sun: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/1997/jun/02/505955628.html ===============================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Re: Corso Book From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Corso Book > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso Book > Date: 97-06-11 17:41:02 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: 11 Jun 97 08:05:23 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: Corso Book > I got the Corso book yesterday, and have read about half of it. Hard to > know what to make of Corso. He is who he says he is, according to every military expert who has checked him out. >the "traditional" story of the Roswell crash, but makes the unusual claim >that Jesse Marcel was there on the night of the crash and watched the >recovery of the crashed craft and alien bodies. As he tells it, one alien >survived the crash essentially unhurt and was shot by soldiers as it attempted to escape. I am curious how the Roswell theorists and experts will fit this bit of information into their accounts. Apparently we now have Jesse being their the night of the crash and watching the recoverys, not to mention one alien getting wasted while trying to escape. >He says that he saw a dead alien preserved in a glass "coffin" in some >sort of gel preservative when he pried open a crate in a hanger and >looked inside. Years later, according to his story, he was given >custody of all of the Roswell files. So apparently it was the "evil" US Army -- because Caruso had the files,who has created and maintaned the coverup to end all coverups. I also wonder what will be offered now that we have a glass coffin and some sort of gel preservative plugged into the Roswell story. The question was did he --according to the book-- view the body on July 6, 1947 at Ft. Riley, KS after he saw it and the Roswell debris come in on a truck convoy. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Name asteroid "3753" From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:29:51 -0400 Subject: Name asteroid "3753" List members, The newly found earth companion is in need of a name. Something with more panache than 3753. So if you can think of something, or if you want to just check out the asteroids website, the following article should be of use. D. Williamson ************************** SOURCE: Globe and Mail DATE: Sat., June 14, 1997 SECTION: In addition Asteroid 3753 has an intricate orbit, a unique relationship with Earth and its own Internet site. But what our newly discovered companion really needs is a decent name. Paul Wiegert, co-discoverer of the asteroid's complex "horseshoe" orbit, says suggestions for a less prosaic name have been pouring in since he and fellow astronomers Kim Innanen and Seppo Mikkola announced their discovery. They range from the mundane to the more, well, far out. We've gotten Fido, Rover, Yo-Yo," Mr. Wiegert said, poring over dozens of E-mail suggestions. "Here's a good one: Curly, after the Stooge." Astronomers have catalogued almost 6,000 asteroids spinning around the solar system, and an international commission has named about half. That means most of the cool names - Pegasus, Hephaestus, Vulcan - are taken. "My personal favourite was Lilliput, from Gulliver's Travels," said Mr. Wiegert, of Toronto's York University. "But it turns out that's taken, too." Suggestions can be submitted at <www.asteroid.yorku.calcompanion> -CP Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:41:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:11:21 -0400 Subject: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO Hi, As probably everyone knows, NASA has video's for download from almost every space shuttle mission so far - except Mission STS-48. The company I work for has an Investor (TROS) that is a public tv broadcast company. So I asked a collegue from the TROS to ask at the NOB (who broadcasts the news on the public networks in the Netherlands) if he could look for the video of the STS-48 UFO encounter in the NOB archives. I'm sure they had it at one time, I saw it on the news in 1991, - but the video seems to be missing from the NOB archives, becouse they say that they don't have it, and don't know where it went. Strange huh ? Mission STS-82 Update Half a year ago I've read a web-page from John Locker who wrote that he recorded a conversation of Mission STS-82 in which the participants describe seeing a UFO. I wrote John a letter if i could recieve a copy in *.wav format of the converstion. he responded that the investigation was still ongoing, and that he would send it when that was finished. In the mean time, other websites took up the story. But I sincerely doubt that anybody has heard the recording yet. Last week I wrote John again; >A few months ago I've asked you for a soundclip of the sts-82 >converstion. You wrote me back that you would send it to me >when you ended your investigation. Is the soundclip available >yet ? And his reply was; >Well,at the moment,one of the Uks biggest independant Tv >companies is investigating the video for me,we should have a >conclusion soon.They are talking to NASA,MCC....crew..the lot, >and are having the recording digitally mastered to re-check the >transcript. I hope to get back to you soon. Not really a satisfying answer.... That's all the news from me for now. Best Regards, Karel. ******************************************************************** Karel Bagchus KUFOR - Karel's UFO Research = http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ Homepage = http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ e-mail = karel@worldonline.nl ICQ UI-Number = 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 UFOSearch # 6 - Science, Proof And The "UFO" From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:04:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:56:02 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch # 6 - Science, Proof And The "UFO" This is the sixth of the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFO UpDates. Several of these essays were posted in the past in the alt.paranet.ufo USENET newsgroup. There are approximately 25 essays in all. I am posting these with the permission of the author, Val Germann. Unfortunately the author is not presently available on the Internet. However, if you would like to correspond with the author I have arranged a temporary internet email address that I will use for forwarding the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com I hope you find these essays interesting and thought provoking. Commentary: With the Air Force said to be on the verge of offering its third explanation for the 1947 events in Roswell, New Mexico it seems an appropriate time to re-explore the issue of proof, the role of science in establishing proof and the relationship of science and proof to the UFO phenomenon. As I watch the Air Force embark on it's next round of balloonery I note the Navy's 50 years of absence from these affairs. One could imagine that with its global marine presence and role in challenging exploration of the oceans the Navy could yet have the last word in all of this. You don't have to accept UFOSearch's opinion regarding the potential impact of contact with a superior alien intelligence on the United States. Interestingly our government 's own research into this issue concluded that it would be scientists who would be most disenfranchised by contact with an advanced alien civilization. In 1960, the US government, through the National Aeronautics and Space Agency, NASA contracted with the Brookings Institute to study the issue of the impact of contact with an advanced alien civilization. Curiously (although this shouldn't surprise the researcher of the government's actions on the UFO issue) this report titled: "Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs" was described in press releases but never made available for purchase through usual government distribution channels. However, recently through a Freedom of Information Act inquiry the complete document was released in 1996 to an individual, R. Daniel Woolman, who has posted this lengthy, thoughtful document on his websiteb: http://mmm.simplenet.com/frames/nasa_brookings/nasa_bell.html In this essay UFOSearch speaks about a Project Phoenix. Here is a brief explanation for those of you to young to have heard about Project Phoenix or who are unfamiliar with this Project which was run during the Vietnam war. Project Phoenix was a Central Intelligence Agency, CIA "program" run under William Colby in Vietnam. Under Phoenix something like 40,000 South Vietnamese were killed as "suspected Viet Cong or Viet Cong fellow-travelers." The CIA trained the death squads who did their work in the early hours of the morning, the bodies usually were found the next day. . .mutilated. The visual documentaries I have seen about Project Phoenix show dead communists and collaborators with signs on their chest saying something like "Viet Cong..." That hardly seems worth advertising and not particularly intimidating. However, if you speak with veterans of this era you will find out what is not shown in the documentaries is that the operatives were most famous for cutting off the penis and inserting it into the mouth of male victims. They also cut the living fetuses from pregnant enemy women and then inserted the woman's head into the vacated uterus. This tactic was derived from Landsdale's counter-intelligence ideas first tried out in the Phillippines against the insurrection of the Huks. Ah, yes, those were the days! Life was much simpler then when our enemies were Red and men were men. Now on to the essay... Gary Alevy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UFOSearch Val Germann Columbia, Missouri 65203 Science, Proof And The "UFO" Here is one of the stickiest wickets in the whole field of Ufology. The debunkers all say "where is the proof?" And the "Ufologists" keep trying to turn themselves into physicists and produce it. But the plain facts are these: If there is a another, non-human intelligence operating on the Earth then "science" could be of little help and there may be no "proof" available except as these "others" desire. The concept of "proof" requires that there exist a human agency possessing the ability to determine with authority what is happening in the world. When "science" is dealing with things like sulphur dioxide or chimpanzees there is no problem. But if "UFOs" are the products of a superior technology then where is the "authority" to determine what is really going on? We must remember that scientists are neutral, objective observers only within their narrow specialties. They are all, regardless of specialty, part of a self-selecting social elite. They have a position to protect. Someone has to pay for "science" and every last scientist. Science and scientists are caught up in the economic and military systems that dominate the United States and most other nations. These systems are paid for by the average citizens of these nations and those average citizens must retain confidence in that which is taking so much of their money. Who is the "jury" who must be convinced by "evidence" for the existence of "UFOs" as "artifacts of another intelligence?" The same people who would be severely damaged if that "evidence" ever were to become "proof!" It is not rational for "Ufologists" to expect science and scientists to cooperate in their personal diminuation. It is not going to happen. The proof of a superior technology and civilization operating on the Earth would be a tremendous blow to all of our various elite groups, including scientists. This is so even though the first reaction of the average man might be an "us against them" reflex that would actually enhance the power of our current human leaders. In the long run (several decades) present human social arrangements would have to change, and drastically, if we were to "make contact" with another intelligence. Those at the top of the current heap understand that clearly, whether the rest of us do or not. The 1987-89 statements of John Lear and William Cooper are interesting mostly because they deal with the issues above. Is it conceivable, as these two men claim, that our scientific and governmental elites have sold us out to "others" from off the Earth? "NO," say most of those who have heard the charge. But for many people, more and more all the time as we Americans are sold out to earthly "foreigners" by our social and economic betters, the answer is becoming, "Well, it might be possible, should such creatures exist." This last is the starting point for our discussion. The Three Arenas Of Proof: 1) Legal "Proof" 2) Scientific "Proof" 3) Intelligence Proof The Three Arenas Of Proof: 1) Legal "Proof" In the legal profession "proof" does not exist until a jury has been convinced and a conviction obtained. Before that time "proof" was simply "evidence." Jurors hear the statements of witnesses and experts. The "physical evidence" in a trial is given by a police expert and it is HIS credibility that makes the evidence, whatever it is (ballistics, fingerprints, etc.), stand up in court. If the jury convicts evidence becomes "proof." There is no such thing as "machine proof." A human being always has to testify as to what sophisticated machines are saying. Machines cannot speak for themselves. They are only tools and have no legal standing to testify. "Proof" at trial is a human thing, not a machine thing. Let us take the legal paradigm and put it into the world of the UFO. Let us suppose that a "crashed disc" is brought before the nation. It looks for all the world like a Flying Saucer. Let us suppose further that it REALLY IS a Flying Saucer! What would make it real to the public at large? Would seeing it on TV be enough? No, it would not. The thing could be fake, right? Hollywood can make anything look real these days. No, it would be a statement of strangeness given by a figure in authority that would make that "crashed disc" real. The artifact in itself is NOT sufficient. A human being in authority has to PROCLAIM a mute physical thing to be what he believes it to be! That puts it into the human system, that's the proof! This is the absolute core of the issue. In the modern world a thing is not necessarily what it IS but what someone in authority SAYS it is. The rest of us must then take the word of this authority about the "reality" of any artifact or process. We, just like a jury at trial, have to take someone else's word about nearly everything. The only question is: whose word are we going to take? In 1954 I saw a large, diamond-shaped object go over my five-year-old head. My best estimate is that this object was some hundreds of feet across and several thousand feet above me. I did not see it close to the horizon but had a sudden urge to look straight, and I mean straight, up--to the zenith. I had to bend over backwards to do this. Then and only then did I see this thing. It made no sound and was cruising smoothly and rapidly under a solid overcast. It frightened me deeply. For me, this event is experience--beyond proof. I am a witness. The questions are: 1) Do YOU believe me? 2) Does my sighting resonate emotionally with you? 3) Does it fit in with what you believe to be the "reality" of the current human situation? Or is it emotional anathema to you and you want to send me a sharp note of protest, telling me that my mental processes must be defective? To you my sighting is a "story," but so is much of the rest of the world! It is unfortunate but true that as long as great numbers of "Ufologists" continue to insist on "proof" we are going to learn very little about what is actually happening. "Proof" is simply not available. This is something that "they" (if they exist) understand quite well and use against us. Ufology has been spinning its wheels for four decades, chasing lights in the sky in a vain search for "proof," while the real action has been right here on the ground. In the opinion of UFOSearch this has not been an accident. The Three Arenas Of Proof: 2) Scientific "Proof" The following is a quote from a letter I recently received: "Ufology ought to be a scientific study of a legitimately puzzling phenomenon." You see, I just can't agree with that. In my opinion, "Ufology" can never be truly "scientific." This is because of the nature of science and the probable nature of the "UFO." If in fact the "UFO" represents another intelligence of some kind then the fundamental assumptions of "science" and "scientists" are null and void. These assumptions are: 1) The universe is objective (totally material, in effect, dead) and knowable with certainty by human beings, i.e., by scientists, who are the most human. 2) The scientific method is the best way to study the universe and its language is quantification--mathematics. The ideal here is the "hard, physical evidence" that can be deemed "proof" by the ultra-materialists of the world of science. 3) The highest form of "science" therefore is physics, the most provable, with chemistry a strong second. But if the UFO is not "objective," if instead it is under the control of an agency equal or superior in intelligence to humans, then the UFO is not necessarily knowable at all, let alone knowable with certainty. Science assumes that humans are at the top of the universal brain chain. Science has not really looked at what it might mean if we are not. The "scientific method" demands repeatability either of experiment or observation. It assumes "control" of one kind or another by human beings. But if the "UFO" represents another intelligence then that "control" may not be available. And if that control is not there then science is not going to give us what we need. We need more than science. In the final analysis science is not a whole lot different from the legal profession. Both scientists and the jury at trial see only a part of the real world and they both make rule-bound assumptions concerning both evidence and the nature of that world. To the scientist the universe is a gigantic mechanical device and the results of experiments and observations are valid for that reason. If enough evidence can be assembled then the majority of scientists (the "jury" of science) will accept that evidence as proof. That's how it works. Science, Proof And The UFO -- Part 2/2 The Three Arenas Of Proof: 3) Intelligence Proof. For two generations America has been the most powerful country on Earth and fought war after war to acquire and maintain that power. Yet to the average American his country is as pure as the driven snow, innocent of the "great power" sins of older empires. It is no wonder that "Ufology" is making no headway with the public. That same public is bullet-proof to even the obvious truth about its own CIA and NSA. In this environment of blissful unknowing what chance does something really strange and dangerous have? None. Americans in general know nothing of the world of intelligence and the power that intelligence can give. In the world of intelligence the universe is not mechanical, rather it is covertly or overtly hostile. In the world of intelligence there are only opponents and very little is "objective." The intelligence game is not "us against a mechanical universe" but instead "us against an enemy who means us harm." In this arena if you wait for proof--you'll see it from the afterlife. This is the world of the UFO. For the intelligence operative "science" is a weapon of great power against all opponents and High Technology determines who wins and who loses. The patty-cake, patty-cake of ideal science is out the window. In the years following World War Two a new science came to the fore -- power science, a discipline much too important for our true elites and their intelligence services to ignore. America was now a world power in a world full of enemies. What type of proof was required here? What was the role of "science" now? Most Americans are totally innocent of this. Oh, they know there is a CIA and that it spies on people, sure. They have heard something about the FBI spying on "subversives" in the 1960s and they may know of the National Security Agency. But not one American in a thousand has any idea of what is actually happening. If the most powerful country in the world is going to "maintain innocence" then its people must not know very much and it is this public ignorance and apathy that helps make many things, including the "UFO," so hard for most people to accept. People who are unaware of the bizarre things their own elites are doing have no way to deal with what ANOTHER civilization might be up to! Thus the "threshold of belief" is just too high for most people where the "UFO" is concerned. In the opinion of UFOSearch this is the DESIRED result of a covert plan. Until this planned wall of ignorance is broken down for a large number of Americans there will be no real progress on the "UFO front." Science, "Intelligence" and Power Into the intelligence world came thousands of scientists during World War Two. For most of them it was new. Some, however, had already served in this "nether world" through the brutal domestic and overseas extraction industries, mining and the oil business. The scientist had no doubt of his cultural superiority over the rest of Earth's human beings. His machines needed resources and they would get them--one way or another. As a result of World War Two the marvelous inventions of the previous one hundred years were turned into weapons beyond history, true planet killers. Horror and shock spread through civilization. Today we are numb to it but in the 1940s and 1950s is was real and palpable. For the first time large groups of scientists had been admitted to REAL POWER and given huge resources for their work. As the Cold War against the Russians gained momentum, fueled by dreams of "imperialism on the cheap," the position of "scientist" rose higher and higher. The horror of the new weapons and the hatred of the USSR drove America's cadre of emigre scientists and their home-grown colleagues onward and upward. By 1947 the best and brightest of the Western World increasingly and willingly began contemplating planetary-scale destruction. Von Braun's prediction had come true, America could afford the very best. This became that "nether world" of the "power scientists" like Vannevar Bush and Lloyd Berkner, Edward Teller and Detlev Bronk. This was the world of the European refugee and his pathological fear of the USSR. It was the world of the American physicist who in 1940 had a budget of five hundred dollars and who by 1945 was spending millions. It was these people who soon defined the terms of engagement for the military types who "ran" the various intelligence services. "Science" was NEVER, EVER going back to the 1930s, never going back to the days when the elite of the Earth had to grovel for a plumber's wages. It was a member of the A.E.C. (Rockefeller operative Strauss) who goaded the Air Force into monitoring the stratosphere for possible products of a Soviet atomic explosion, three years before any "military expert" thought there was even a possibility of a Soviet bomb. Proof? It was enough that the Russians existed and that we had the bomb and that they would certainly try to get it. A very dangerous, multi-million-dollar operation was set in motion on the basis of a "hunch" on the part of an influential scientist. Of course, the "hunch" did fit the paranoia of the day. The "hunch" fed the power complex. And when the "hunch" was proven right (instrumental data was acquired), it wasn't "a hunch" or "paranoia" anymore, it was revealed truth! It was the "scientists" who pushed for the U-2 and Atlas, Polaris and Discoverer -- over the objections of carrier-happy Admirals and stick-happy Generals. The scientists were the ones who made The National Reconnaissance Office possible and gave The National Security Agency its abilities. Who pushed for the H-Bomb and saw to it that the American scientist Oppenheimer was discredited? Hungarian Edward Teller. Who sat on their hands as Eisenhower tried to get a test ban treaty to cool off the Cold War and stop the Strontium 90 from showing up in my milk in Carrollton, Missouri? The former General Of The Armies pleaded with his scientific advisors for help but none came. None of them were curtailing their brand new power. It is said that Eisenhower feared the "military-industrial complex." That may be true. But behind that was the arrogance of the new elite, an elite that had tasted forbidden fruit and was lusting for more. Thus the "scientists" helped crush the old government elite during the so-called "McCarthy Era" and pushed the "weapons culture" ahead as fast as possible. There was no effective resistance to any of this within the scientific community and by 1954 scientists of Oppenheimer's persuasion were either keeping a low profile or had been driven out of government through "security checks" and McCarthy-Era purges. Opposition to the new "power science" was pushed to the fringes, along with Astrology and the UFO. By the middle of the 1950s half of the scientists and technical people in the USA were working for the War, er, the Defense Department--as they do today. For almost two generations now our very best people have been totally concerned with power and the projection of power--raw military power. This set them against many of their own ancient traditions; power does that. Thus was created the situation we see today: "Science" as part of the Cold War establishment, hip-deep in weapons research, spying and God knows what else. Today, "Science" is not always a noble work, not always a part of an ancient "liberal" tradition (based on the rule of law and the free exchange of information) but can now be an integral part of an imperial system riven with secrecy and power mania. In this world nearly anything goes--anything. In this world, a world of arrogance, duplicity and bad faith on a planetary scale, planetary blackmail becomes possible. This is the world of Lear and Cooper, in my opinion the real world of the UFO. Not that everything that Lear or Cooper says is "true," whatever that means. I mean that when you really start down the rabbit hole of the "UFO," when you stop looking into the sky and start looking at things on the ground, you have left the mythical world of "science" and entered the world of intelligence and power. The rules here are different. This is serious. The existence of "aliens" from another planet, another dimension or even another part of the Earth would be both a shock and a threat beyond tolerance for our elites. It is easy to say things like "human culture would change if we make contact" but when you are on top of the current heap you don't want to hear things like that. Not at all. Now we're where we need to be. "Flying Saucers," in and of themselves, would be a tremendous threat to existing human society. Add to that what I suspect became known in the 1950s about implantation and abduction, mutilation and disappearance, and the Eisenhower years became a living nightmare for many of our new economic and scientific elites. They were ripe for blackmail, overweeningly proud and yet insecure in their new positions. If our little grey friends (or those behind them) didn't seem to care about human social arrangements and said they just needed a few things from us and a little help in getting them (from 50 or 100 light years away they probably couldn't bring the whole store) then by God they were going to get the stuff--from our own elites using our tax dollars. And if a little inducement were offered, such as high technology, well, all the better. A little bribe makes a guilty conscience a whole lot easier to live with. We here at UFOSearch can well believe that in exchange for "protection" our new scientific elites would have eagerly provided assistance to others, even if part of the "deal" involved harm or even death to average Americans. We must remember that these are the same people who would bring the world willy-nilly nuclear testing and Thalidomide. They view the "average man" as not much better than a dog. It would have been a deal that they could hardly have refused, a deal they would already have made with the nuclear devil. Does UFOSearch believe that our hereditary elites (the employers of Allen Dulles, James Forrestal and William Casey) would trade a few million lives for their continuance in power? Yes. Do we believe that the people who created Project Phoenix would trade a million or so of our lives for a power that might put them on top, over and above their old- line earthly superiors? Yes. Was a "revolt of the Dulleses" possible? Yes. All of these people have one interest in common--staying on top. For them, as for the many scientists, the common people are a common herd and occasionally some slaughtering must be done--that's the way it is. Our nuclear progams have killed thousands of Americans over the years. None of them care. What would they do for the power of the Gods? Would they kill us all? We fear they might. ***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:50 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 Part One. ROSWELL -- ANATOMY OF A MYTH by Kent Jeffrey Almost one hundred years ago, a very concerned eight-year-old girl from New York City, Virginia O'Hanlon, wrote the Question and Answer Department of her family's evening newspaper, The New York Sun, requesting to know the truth about Santa Claus. Virginia had been a firm believer, but her young frie ds had started to sow the seeds of doubt. On September 21, 1897, Virginia's answer finally came. Francis Pharcellus Church, a former Civil War correspondent and an aging writer for the Sun, replied to Virginia's letter in one of the most eloquent and enduring editorial responses in the history of journalism. Church transcended the cold har facts of reality and avoided shaking Virginia's childlike faith by subtly alluding to Santa Claus as a metaphor for that which is good and noble in life -- "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and giv your life its highest beauty and joy...." Recently, the International Roswell Initiative (IRI) received an inquiry from a young girl, Lauren M., living in a small town in New Jersey, that is in many ways reminiscent of Virginia O'Hanlon's 1897 letter to the New York Sun. While the IRI is primarily a grass roots effort to declassify whateve information the government might have on UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence, it has received numerous inquiries over the last three years about the actual Roswell event, many from children. January 6, 1997 Dear International Roswell Initiative: I am a 6th grade student who is studying all kinds of interesting information about UFOs... I believe that there are really aliens who have landed and crashed (such as Roswell), but the government tried to cover it up...If you have any information that can help me prove that there are UFOs and aliens, please send me that information. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Lauren M. Mrs. Nielsen's 6th grade Having been extensively involved over the last few years with both the investigation of the Roswell case and the effort to get the matter declassified, I would love to be able to answer Lauren M.'s letter in the affirmative. Unfortunately, in clear conscience, I cannot -- either directly or metapho ically. Unlike a fanciful story from Western folklore created to appeal to the imaginations of children, the 1947 Roswell case involves real people and an actual event. Additionally, with all the publicity the Roswell event and its alleged coverup have received, along with the accompanying implicati ns of conspiracy and deceit on the part of the U.S. government, Roswell represents a controversy that extends far beyond the relatively narrow confines of the so-called UFO community. As such, Roswell demands an objective, straightforward, and, if possible, definitive answer. During the last year, compelling new evidence has come to the fore that now makes such a definitive answer possible. Unfortunately, it is not the answer that those of us familiar with the Roswell case have wanted to hear. Declassified 1948 military documents, new testimony from retired military men from both Roswell and the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and a thorough reexamination of how the crashed-disk story got started in the first place, make it unequivocally clear that the material recovered northwest of Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947 was not of extra errestrial origin. In other words, NO UFO CRASHED AT ROSWELL -- WITH OR WITHOUT ALIENS. IT DID NOT HAPPEN. PERIOD. For those willing to look objectively and rationally at all the evidence, this contention should become resoundingly clear, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond all doubt. Disinformation Agent or Defector? As soon as word got out that I, coordinator of the IRI and author of the Roswell Declaration, had reversed my opinion on Roswell, accusations such as "he is an agent for the government" or "they finally got to him" immediately appeared on Internet postings and elsewhere. While it is generally not prudent to risk giving such silliness even an inkling of respectability by publicly acknowledging it, I will address the issue here, nonetheless, because the accusations seem to be so widespread. First of all, no individual or agency has ever attempted to influence or pressure me in any way, shape, or form -- with regard to Roswell or anything else. Furthermore, if Roswell had really happened and if there had been any kind of attempt to intimidate me, such an action would have been the bigg st mistake possible. Being somewhat rebellious by nature, I would have then pursued the matter with a vengeance, spurred on by the knowledge that I was really on to something. Secondly, I am not employed by the government in any capacity whatsoever. My sole occupation for the past 26 years has been that of airline pilot. I am employed by a major U.S. carrier and presently fly international routes, primarily to Europe. Although I have never seen a UFO, I have had a long-term interest in the phenomenon. My interest in Roswell came about in part because my father, Arthur Jeffrey, a retired Air Force colonel, knew and worked in the early sixties with one of the key Roswell figures, General William Blanchard. While I did feel for a long time that there was a "significant" chance that Roswell involved a crashed UFO, I never at any time believed it to be the case with absolute certainty. However, even if I had only felt that there was a "slight" chance that Roswell involved the crash of an alien spaceship I still would have pursued the matter vigorously, because, if true, it would have been the story of the millennium. The International Roswell Initiative There are apparently those who also feel that by reversing my position on Roswell I am dropping the ball and letting down the twenty thousand plus individuals who have signed the Roswell Declaration. That is anything but the case. First, with regard to reversing my stance, it is important to remember that the objective of the Roswell Initiative has been to find the truth, not define it. Unfortunately, the truth turned out to be different from what I thought it might be, or hoped it would be. However, now that I am absolutely certain that the debris recovered from Roswell was not that from an extraterrestrial craft, I feel an obligation to get that information out as well. Not to do so would be less than forthright and less than honest. Secondly, as for the Roswell Declarations, the plan is to deliver them to the White House, along with a cover letter to the President, during the week of the 50th anniversary of the Roswell event this July. Whether or not the government has any substantive information on UFOs, from a public relations standpoint, the situation has not been handled well. The government's quasi-official policy over the last few decades of ignoring the UFO issue has led to a definite suspicion on the part of its citizenry. A 1996 Gallup pole revealed that 71 percent of the American public believes that "the U.S. Government knows more about UFOs than they are telling us." Although the Roswell Declaration was inspired by the 1947 Roswell event, it is by no means tied to it. The Declaration requests "an Executive Order declassifying any information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence." Such an assurance would still be timely, appropriate, and beneficial to both the U.S. government and its people. As is stated in the Declaration, if no information is being withheld, such an action would, nonetheless, have the positive effect of setting the record straight and clearing up years of suspicion and controversy. On the other hand, if information is actually being withheld, it would represent knowl dge of profound importance to which we are all entitled, and its release would be acknowledged as an historic act of honesty and goodwill.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:24 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 Part Four. A Trip to Washington The central focus of the Roswell story has been the recovery of the unusual debris from the Foster Ranch in July, 1947. This is where it all started. The most important living witness to that debris is Jesse Marcel, Jr., MD, the son of Major Jesse Marcel, Sr., the intelligence officer of the 509th omb Group. After being out at the site, Major Marcel stopped by his house on the way back to the base and laid the debris out on his kitchen floor to show his wife and son. As a result, Jesse Marcel, Jr., got a good look at the unusual material. Potentially, the key to the whole Roswell UFO case lies in Jesse Marcel, Jr.'s memory. He saw the debris. Either it was extraterrestrial or it was not. Despite the recent overwhelmingly negative developments in the Roswell case, I did not want to leave any stone unturned. I therefore arranged to have Jesse Marcel, Jr. fly to Washington, D.C., for a thorough debriefing session to see if we could get a better picture of the exact nature of the unusual debris that precipitated the Roswell story. Being fully aware of the pitfalls in the use of hypnosis for memory retrieval, I decided that it still might be an avenue worth pursuing. In addition to its (controversial) use in retrieving repressed subconscious memories, hypnosis can be an effective tool in enhancing conscious memory. Law enforcement agencies sometimes use hypnosis in this manner to help a witness better remember a face or a license plate number, for example. Because I considered our effort such an important endeavor, I wanted to find the best in the field. I also wanted someone who had maximum credibility and who was not associated with the UFO community. There was a reason for this. In the event that anything significantly positive came out of the hypnotic session, there would be a greater chance of it being taken seriously by the mainstream public. My search led me to Neil Hibler, PhD, a clinical psychologist with an office in the Washington, D.C., area. Dr. Hibler is one of the world's leading experts in the use of hypnotic regression for forensic purposes. Law enforcement agencies all over the world have retained him for important cases. Among the agencies that have called on him are the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the National Security Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the intelligence agencies of all three armed services. Dr. Hibler has worked with subjects from all walks of life, including diplomats and generals. On the evening of January 10, 1997, four of us met in Dr. Hibler's office for the first of three sessions. The other two sessions took place over the next two days. Jesse Marcel, Jr., who is one of the most honest and sincere persons I have ever met, cooperated completely, despite the potential controversy of any significant outcome. Dr. Hibler had suggested that everything be recorded on videotape. This was done by Denise Marcel, Jesse, Jr.'s 33-year-old daughter, who flew in from Los Angeles. Denise was especially interested in our endeavor because she has studied hypnosis formally and is a licensed hypnotherapist in California. A professional illustrator from the Washington, D.C., area, Kimberly Moeller, was also present during the second and third sessions. Dr. Hibler's approach was to have Jesse go through the entire story twice, without the aid of hypnosis. Hypnosis was then administered for each subsequent recounting of the story. According to Denise, her father is not an easy hypnotic subject, but was definitely in a mild to medium trance by the end of the last session. The hypnosis did not, however, bring out anything new that was of significance. For that reason, confabulation (false memory syndrome) was definitely not a concern. In Jesse's words, the hypnosis simply helped "fine tune" his conscious memory. For example, by the end of the last session, he was able to recall several details about which he had previously been uncertain -- the debris' already having been laid out on the floor when he first saw it, the fact that his father was in uniform, and his accompanying his father out to the car, where he saw additional debris in the trunk. The most significant thing about the sessions in Washington is not so much what came out of them, but what didn't come out of them. There were no descriptions or memories of any kind of exotic debris or wreckage. There is a very good reason for that -- there simply was no such exotic debris or wreckage for Jesse to remember. If there had been, in all probability, he would have remembered it consciously. Nonetheless, because of the extreme importance of the debris to the Roswell case, the effort was worth a try -- just in case. There was no risk of a negative effect on what Jesse remembered. Hypnosis can elicit memories of things that didn't happen, but it can't take away memories of things that did happen. Unfortunately, instead of providing any renewed hope or encouragement, the outcome of the hypnosis sessions in Washington, D.C., was, for me, the final nail in the coffin of the Roswell crashed-saucer scenario. The sessions made it absolutely clear that the material recovered from the Foster ranch orthwest of Roswell in 1947 was anything but unique or exotic. As it turned out, it was extremely mundane. According to Jesse's best recollection, the material laid out on his kitchen floor, which was representative of that at the site, consisted primarily of pieces of metallic foil, a short beam or "stick," and a few pieces of a plastic or Bakelite-like substance. Certainly, such mundane debris would not constitute the wreckage from any kind of sophisticated vehicle or craft, much less one capable of interstellar travel. There was nothing to indicate form or structure. There was nothing to indicate some kind of ultra-advanced technology. There were no technological artifacts of any type -- no remnants of anything resembling motors, servos, electronic components, instruments, a guidance system, a control system, a propulsion system, etc. -- nothing. The crash of a Sopwith Camel would have left more complex and sophisticated debris. Even the debris from a two-thousand-year-old Roman chariot would have been more interesting and varied than the debris that was laid out on the Marcel kitchen floor. At least with the chariot there would have been some technological remnants such as parts of the axles and wheels. While we have no idea what the debris from a crashed spaceship would look like, it is reasonable to assume that it would reflect a level of complexity and technological advancement beyond imagination. Postulating that a few pieces of foil, plastic-like material, and short beams constitute the remains of a machine of such capability and complexity is more than just a quantum leap, it is completely baseless and totally illogical. An Amazing Coincidence In addition to being mundane, the material recovered from the Foster ranch is definitely reconcilable with the debris from an ML-307 radar reflector -- the length and cross-sectional size of the beams or sticks, the pieces of foil, and the plastic-like material (now thought to be part of one of the plastic ballast cases that contained sand). Even the color of the symbols that Jesse, Jr., remembers is almost identical to the color of the flower patterns on the balsa stick that Irving Newton remembers seeing in Ramey's office. The crashed saucer scenario requires an implausible occurrence. A flying saucer crashes northwest of Roswell, New Mexico, and leaves debris in the form of small pieces of foil, short beams that have a maximum length of about three feet, and pieces of Bakelite-like material. Amazingly, by incredible coincidence, a balloon array that disappeared in the same general area four weeks earlier carried three radar reflectors constructed from reflective foil, short beams that have a maximum length of about three feet, and pieces of Bakelite-like material. Obviously, the idea of any such coincidence ever happening is absurd. The debris recovered from the Foster ranch was that of an ML-307 radar reflector. It is not hard to imagine how the apparent misidentification probably came about. During the previous two weeks, there had been a wave of sightings of flying saucers or "disks" throughout the United States and Canada. The sightings were something that were in the news daily and were on almost everyone's mind -- an "unknown" in the sky. At the same time, balloon arrays under a secret project known as "Mogul" were being launched from the Alamagordo area, just under 100 miles to the west of Roswell. These balloon arrays carried ML-307 radar reflectors, which would have been totally unfamiliar to Butch Blanchard, Jesse Marcel, and the other men at Roswell AAF. The debris from one of these reflectors scattered over the desert would likewise have been something unfamiliar to them -- an "unknown" on the ground. It is understandable that the unknown debris found northwest of Roswell would have been assumed to be related to the unknown objects that had been so frequently reported flying around in the sky, the flying "disks." Such a connection, although with the benefit of hindsight, incorrect, would have be n very logical and understandable for the men at Roswell to make. This is almost certainly how the Roswell story began. The Missing Tape In the last few months, as part of my effort to reconstruct what happened at Roswell, I have had a number of conversations with Irving Newton, the weather officer at Fort Worth Army Air Field who was called in by General Ramey to identify the unusual debris. The debris was already suspected to be part of some type of balloon device. Newton told me that he immediately recognized it as being from an ML-307 radar reflector. An ML-307 was a box kite-like device covered with a tough, paper-backed foil that was suspended below balloons or balloon arrays to facilitate radar tracking. According to Newton, most weather officers, much less the men at Roswell or Fort Worth, would not have been familiar with such a device. Newton had worked with the reflectors a couple of years earlier during the invasion of Okinawa in the Pacific. The devices were suspended below balloons, released to gather wind data for use in helping direct heavy naval artillery fire. In one of my conversations with Newton, quite by chance, a new and important revelation came to light. He was describing the color of the symbols on one of the balsa sticks and mentioned how it was faint and had somewhat of a mottled appearance because of "the way that the dye had bled through onto the surface of the stick." This was a very important piece of information. The symbols that Newton saw on the debris in Ramey's office were on the surface of the stick, not on tape! The tape had apparently peeled away, probably because of several weeks' exposure to sunlight while it lay out in the desert. This serendipitous revelation immediately cleared up one of the biggest questions in my mind about the Roswell case -- how could Jesse Marcel, Sr., or Jesse Marcel, Jr., for that matter, not have recognized flower patterns on tape? The answer is now crystal clear. The symbols they saw were not on tape. What they saw were images of the original symbols from the dye that had bled through before the tape had peeled away. Jesse, Jr.'s testimony about the symbols definitely not being on tape was absolutely correct.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:44 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 Part Two. Misleading Information Many of the books and documentaries about Roswell imply that it is highly probable, if not certain, that the recovered debris was from a crashed flying saucer. Some of that information, however, is misleading or incorrect. It ranges from fabricated stories on the part of seemingly credible witnesse to exaggeration and selective presentation of fact. In some instances, it is probably more a case of overzealousness on the part of authors than intentional deception. In other instances, credibility is stretched beyond limits. For example, after the conclusion of the story in the movie Roswell, statements of purported fact just prior to the credits inform us that Jesse Marcel, Sr., died in 1986 and that "since then over 350 witnesses to the event have agreed to talk." In actuality, because so few people ever saw the debris, it is doubtful whether even one tenth that number of witnesses could ever be produced. In retrospect, there is much about Roswell that I wish I had questioned more thoroughly, early on. For example, I received a very interesting letter, dated March 20, 1993, written on the stationary of a respected major UFO organization. The author of the letter, in addition to being a board member of that organization, was a well-known Roswell researcher and the co-author of a leading book on the subject. I had no reason to question his credibility. In part the letter read: "...a very important trip to New Mexico where we secured another first-hand witness to the bodies. This brings our total to EIGHT (emphasis in the original) with yet additional prospects." My immediate thought was that if these (secret and primarily military, I was told) witnesses could be convinced to come forward, we would be able to break the Roswell case wide open. The letter represented a major turning point in my support for and involvement with the Roswell crashed-UFO investigation. I subsequently retained, at my personal expense, a major Washington, D.C., law firm to offer counsel to the eight witnesses in the hope of encouraging them to come forward. In September, 1993, I arranged for two of the attorneys from the firm to travel to New Mexico, where they were to be put in to ch with three of the supposed eight secret witnesses. Once the attorneys arrived in Roswell, however, they were put in contact with only one such witness. I would later learn that this particular so-called secret witness was already known to other researchers and that his story was considered outlandish and unbelievable -- an assessment with which I now fully agree. Sending the two attorneys to New Mexico was a tremendously expensive waste of time and resources. The researcher and author who wrote the March 20, 1993, letter telling of the eight witnesses was, himself, eventually discredited. Although a very personable individual, he proved to be less than honest. He was subsequently removed from the board of the UFO organization with which he was affiliated and his co-author, still a respected researcher, disavowed any association with him. As for the other seven "secret" witnesses, nothing has ever been heard from or about them since. UFO Crashes Even before the advent of recent negative developments in the Roswell case, I have always felt that a UFO would never crash. However, because of the impressive witness testimony about which I was told, I suspended judgment and allowed for the possibility that Roswell might be an exception -- some kind of one-in-a-quintillion fluke. That was, in retrospect, a mistake. The problem with the concept of a UFO crashing is that as technology advances, so does reliability. Be it with cars, airplanes, televisions, or wristwatches, the reliability of today's technology far exceeds that of the technology of just a few decades ago. For example, because of the high reliability of their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic. A few decades ago, that would have been unthinkable. (The positive correlation between advancing technology and reliability applies to "proven" technology, not experimental state-of-the art machines still in the developmental phase, such as experimental aircraft or space vehicles.) With today's industry-average engine-failure rate of less than one failure per 100,000 flight hours, the chances of both engines of a two-engine jetliner failing during a given hour of flight are less than one out of 10 billion. Figuring 50,000 aircraft-ocean crossings per year, and factoring in such variables as average time over the water and average distance from land, the odds are less than fifty-fifty of a double-engine failure and consequent ditching in the North Atlantic of even one such aircraft over the next 10,000 years. This incredible degree of reliability is found with a technology that would be primitive compared with a UFO. Even with today's relatively "primitive" technology, our commercial aircraft have very efficient collision avoidance systems, as well as excellent radar systems for avoiding thunderstorms and their associated hail and lightning (phenomena, incidentally, that are surely not unique to this planet). If we assume that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft and that some of the many reported UFO sightings are genuine UFOs, we are dealing with machines apparently capable of high-speed right-angle turns, incredible accelerations and speeds, and wingless flight -- not to mention of traveling light-years through the void of empty space in, presumably, a relatively short period of time. Such capability would require a technology totally beyond our present understanding of physics -- a technology the sophistication of which we cannot even begin to imagine. Because of the positive correlation between technology and reliability, such incredibly advanced technology would most certainly mean a correspondingly high degree of reliability. Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. It certainly would be many orders of magnitude less than the already infinitesimally small chance of one of today's twin-engine jetliners having a double-engine failure. The 1948 Military Documents For me, the beginning of the end for the Roswell UFO case came last spring, when I first saw one of a number of previously classified military documents dealing with unidentified flying objects. The 289-page document was released under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in March 1996 in response to a FOIA request by researcher William LaParl. It contained the minutes of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board Conference at the Pentagon on March 17 and 18, 1948. Buried in the document was is a very interesting statement by a Colonel Howard McCoy which referred to a number of unpublished UFO eports. The last sentence of McCoy's statement, however, is devastating to the Roswell case. "We have a new project -- Project SIGN -- which may surprise you as a development from the so-called mass hysteria of the past Summer when we had all the unidentified flying objects or discs. This can't be laughed off. We have over 300 reports which haven't been publicized in the papers from very competent personnel, in many instances -- men as capable as Dr. K. D. Wood, and practically all Air Force, Airline people with broad experience. We are running down every report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of those crash in an area so that we could recover whatever they are." My first reaction to this statement was one of disbelief. Thoughts came to mind like "This can't be correct, there must be some mistake, this guy didn't know," etc. We are probably all somewhat prone to such initial reactions of denial when confronted with facts that conflict with our preconceived notions of reality or our established beliefs. Most of the time, however, common sense, logic, and rationality prevail. On the other hand, there is sometimes an invariable refusal to give up a particular contention or belief, no matter how strong the evidence to the contrary. The result of such refusal is often illogical speculation and far-fetched scenarios, concocted in an effort to rationalize away the facts. It is a pitfall into which even credible researchers sometimes tumble. The statement at the Scientific Advisory Board Conference lamenting the fact that the Air Force did not have a crashed UFO was made by Colonel Howard McCoy, the Chief of Intelligence for Air Material Command at Wright-Patterson AFB. Wright Patterson is where the Air Force's technical and intelligence experts are concentrated, even today. It is where recovered wreckage from a foreign craft of any kind with the potential for invading our skies would be taken for technical analysis -- be it a MIG 29 or a Klingon battle cruiser. If there had been a crashed flying saucer recovered outside of Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947, this is where it would have been taken. As Chief of Intelligence, Colonel Howard McCoy would have known about it. In addition to the minutes of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board meeting, there are other military documents indicating just as unequivocally that the Air Force was not in possession of any physical evidence with regard to UFOs. Among these documents is a series of communiques dealing with "flying object incidents in the United States" between Colonel McCoy at Wright Patterson and Major General C. P. Cabell, the Director of Intelligence for the Air Force at the Pentagon. In one of these communiques, a letter dated November 8, 1948, McCoy made three separate references to the fact that there was no physical or tangible evidence from a flying saucer crash. Cabell used the information from McCoy's letter for preparation of a memorandum dated November 30, 1948, for Secretary of Defense James Forrestal. The lack of physical evidence is also mentioned in a September 23, 1947, letter from Lieutenant General Nathan Twining, Commander of the Air Materiel Command at Wright Field, to Brigadier General George Schulgen, a top intelligence official at the Pentagon. The Twining letter was written less than three months after the Roswell incident. The letter is also significant because it makes reference to the cooperation between the Engineering Division and the Intelligence Division at the Wright Patterson complex. This cooperation is mentioned specifically in regard to assessing the nature of the mys erious "flying objects" about which there had been so many credible reports. The cooperation between the intelligence and engineering branches at Wright Patterson is further corroborated by a "top secret" memorandum for the Chief, Air Intelligence Division, dated October 11, 1948, signed by a Colonel Brooke Allen, Chief, of the Air Estimates Branch at Wright Patterson. The stated subject of the memorandum is "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the U.S." This memorandum is important because, along with the Twining letter, it confirms what is dictated by common sense -- that if the engineering department possessed a crashed saucer, the intelligence department would not only be aware of it, they would also be integrally involved with its analysis and the assessment of any potential threat posed to national security. The 1947 and 1948 military documents are definitive. They can not be simply or smugly characterized as "absence of evidence." They are evidence. They state definitively that there was no crashed saucer. If instead of the above documents, researchers had uncovered definitive and authentic documentation indicating the existence of a crashed saucer, such documentation would have undoubtedly been acknowledged by all and characterized as a "smoking gun." Victory would have been declared, and congressional investigations would have been all but certain. Predictably, some in the UFO field are reacting to the 1947 and 1948 military documents with an attitude reminiscent of the platitude, "don't bother me with the facts, my mind's made up." Ironically, this is the same type of mentality of which they are so quick to accuse their detractors. Narrow-mindedness, however, can exist on either side of the fence. The facts are now clear. We can't simply refuse to acknowledge them because we don't like them. The Roswell crash didn't happen. It is time to face the music, and the band isn't playing our tune.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 3/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:04 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 3/6 Part Three. The Men of the 509th The 509th Bomb Group was based at Roswell in 1947. In September 1996, I had the privilege of attending the reunion of the 509th Bomb Group in Tucson, Arizona, as a guest of General Bob Scott and his wife Terry. I have known the Scotts for a couple of years. By coincidence, Bob's son is a pilot for he same airline for which I work. At the time of the 509th reunion, I had not yet seen all the pertinent 1948 military documents and still held an inkling of hope that there might be something to the Roswell event. Prior to the reunion, I had sent out over 700 mailings to members of the reunion group in the hope of finding additional witnesses to the mysterious debris. The result was a disappointment -- only two calls, neither of which was of any real help. Both of the men who called were former 509th flight engineers. One had had a very interesting UFO sighting from the ramp at Kirtland Air Force Base. The other recalled seeing a lot of extra activity around one of the hangers at Roswell near the time of the 1947 incident. At the reunion in Tucson, I was introduced to several of the pilots who were at Roswell in 1947 and who promptly told me, in no uncertain terms, that the crashed saucer event never occurred, period. I did not get the impression at the time, nor have I ever since, that any of these men are engaged in some kind of incredible 50-year-long massive coverup or that they were putting on an act or facade to throw me off track. Anyone who believes that to be the case is out of touch with the reality of this issue. Like every other person with whom I have ever discussed this subject, these men were in total agreement that anything as important and profound as the knowledge of other intelligent life in the universe is information that should not be censored or suppressed and to which everyone should be entitled. These men risked their lives in World War II to save the world from the kind of totalitarian governments that, among their many other crimes against humanity, unjustifiably suppressed information from their people. The men who were at Roswell during July 1947 feel very strongly that absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened and that the whole matter is patently ridiculous. The 509th was the only atomic bomb group in the world in 1947 and was composed of a very elite group of individuals, most of whom still feel a definite sense of pride in their former outfit. To them, the crashed-saucer nonsense, along with all the hullabaloo and conspiracy theories surrounding it, makes a mockery of and is an insult to the 509th Bomb Group and its men. One of the 509th pilots I met at the reunion, Jack Ingham, has since become a friend and has helped me considerably in contacting additional members of the group who were stationed at Roswell during the time of the incident. When I first met Jack in Tucson, he spared no punches in letting me know exactly what he thought about the crashed-flying saucer matter. Others at the reunion told me that if something like the crash of a UFO had really happened at Roswell, Jack Ingham would have known. Jack spent a total of 16 years with the 509th Bomb Group -- February 1946 to July 1962. He retired from he Air Force as a lieutenant colonel in January 1971. Since last September, I have spoken with a total of 15 B-29 pilots and 2 B-29 navigators, all of whom were stationed at Roswell Army Air Field in July 1947. Most of them heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started. The few men who did recall hearing something about the incident at the time of its occurrence said that the inside word was that the debris was from a downed balloon of some kind and that there was no more than "one wheelbarrow full." Not one single man had any direct knowledge of a crashed saucer or of any kind of unusual material. Even more significantly, in all of their collective years with the 509th Bomb Group, not one of these men had ever encountered any other individual who had such knowledge. As Jack Ingham and others pointed out, the 509th was a very close-knit group and there was no way an event as spectacular as the recovery of a crashed-alien spaceship from another world could have happened at their base without their having known about it. Despite the fact that they, individually, may not have been directly involved with the recovery operation, and despite the pervasiveness of the "need to know" philosophy in the military, these men maintained that there was absolutely no way that something of such magnitude and so earthshaking would not have been communicated among the members of the group -- especially within the inner circle of the upper echelon of B-29 pilots and navigators -- all of whom had top-secret security clearances. Furthermore, unlike the atomic weapons secrets with which they were all entrusted, the existence of a crashed alien spaceship would have been much more of a social and scientific issue than a national security issue. Additionally, word was already out -- the story had been published in afternoon newspapers all over the Western United States. Most of the men of the 509th Bomb Group were primarily WWII veterans in their mid- to late twenties. (Colonel Blanchard, the commander of the group, was, himself, only 31.) Military regulations notwithstanding, human nature and common sense have to be factored into the equation. Such an occurrence - the most significant and dramatic event in recorded history -- would surely have been discussed by these men, at least among themselves. Memory, Communication, and Perception A few words about the potential pitfalls of human memory, communication, and perception might shed light on how the "myth" surrounding the Roswell event evolved. The following observations are strictly from the standpoint of common sense and real-world experience, not from some abstract or esoteric psychological theory. Faulty memory is obviously one of the biggest detriments to accurately reconstructing past events, especially if a great deal of time has elapsed. While memory generally serves us well, it is unlike the playback of a digital tape -- it is far from precise or absolute. With the passage of time, images from different events can be inadvertently blended together. Also, mental images of things only imagined can be inadvertently blended or confused with memories of things actually observed or events actually experienced. If memory were perfect, everyone of us would have consistently accomplished perfect scores in our comprehensive exams throughout high school and college. We would remember with perfect accuracy every name, face, scene, place, and event that we had ever heard, seen, or experienced. Obviously, human memory doesn't work this way. Interestingly, however, in the case of witness testimony, there often seems to be an unrealistic assumption that it does. Like faulty memory, inaccurate communication can also be a detriment to accurately reconstructing past events. Miscommunication is definitely a factor with secondhand testimony. Perhaps, that is part of the reason secondhand testimony is not admissible in a court of law. There is a game sometimes played by children that amply illustrates the problem of miscommunication, and consequently also secondhand testimony. A group stands in a circle and a message is whispered from one person to the next. After being passed around a few times, the original message is usually completely unrecognizable. It doesn't take much imagination to realize how much the problem would be exacerbated if there was a gap of several years each time the message was passed on. Interestingly, in the Roswell case, much of the secondhand testimony, upon which so much importance is placed, comes from information passed on many years back. Errors in perception are probably more frequent than most people realize. Perception is often influenced by expectation. We have probably all noticed this phenomenon on a micro scale when trying to proofread something. Similar to a form of computer enhancement, the brain tends to automatically comp nsate for missing letters or words which are supposed to be there. In other words, it tends to automatically "fill in the blanks." The problem of expectation influencing perception is exacerbated when recalling past events. Memory seems to somehow have the ability to distort an observation retroactively to make it better match expectation. This phenomenon can be a real problem with eyewitness accounts to traffic accidents, and even more so to aviation accidents -- even accounts from experienced observers. For example, in August 1987, a Northwest Airlines MD-88 took off from Detroit Metro airport. The crew, however, had failed to lower the flaps to the takeoff position (15 degrees). Under most circumstances, this error would not have been a fatal mistake. Unfortunately, due to other contributing factors (short runway, hot day, fully loaded aircraft, etc.), they didn't make it. During the investigation of the accident, the crew of the aircraft in line for takeoff immediately behind the Northwest airplane testified that its flaps were definitely lowered to the takeoff position. Analysis of the wreckage and flight-data recorder, however, showed otherwise. The testimony of the crew of the second aircraft was wrong. What they remembered was what they thought they should have seen rather than what they actually saw.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 6/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:53 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 6/6 Part Six. The Guardians of the Hangar Researching Roswell is somewhat akin to prospecting, in that most of the time you spend countless hours and come up with nothing. Occasionally, however, you might hit pay dirt and come up with a real find. That happened with me during my polling of the pilots and navigators of the 509th, when I contacted Walter Klinikowski. Klinikowski is one of the most interesting individuals with whom I have spoken during this entire Roswell endeavor. After my first conversation with Klinikowski, I soon learned from other members of the 509th Bomb Group that his piano playing was almost legendary. He told me that while in high school at age 15, unbeknown to his parents, he took his first professional job. The musician's union set him up in the pit band of a local burlesque theater, where he soon became acquainted with none other than the famous Gypsy Rose Lee. As if his piano talent was not enough, Klinikowski later was sponsored by the Philadelphia Athletic Club as a potential member of the 1940 U.S. Olympic team. The war came along, however, and the games were never held. During World War II, he was a navigator on a B-17 -- one of highest risk jobs in he war. Following the war, after a couple of years of civilian life, Klinikowski was recalled to the service, where he joined the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell in May 1947. He stayed with the 509th until February 1953. What makes Walter Klinikowski so important to the investigation of the Roswell case is not his time with the 509th, but what he did afterward. For 14 years, from 1960 until 1974, when he retired from the Air Force as a colonel, Walter Klinikowski was with the Foreign Technology Division (FTD) of th Air Materiel Command (AMC), based out of Wright Patterson Air Force Base. (The FTD is now called the National Aerospace Intelligence Center.) From 1960 to 1964, he was "Deputy Director of Intelligence Collections," and then later, after spending some time abroad as a liaison officer for the FTD, he returned to Wright Patterson as "Director of Foreign Activities" from 1970 until 1974. The fact that wreckage of a crashed UFO would have been taken to the Foreign Technology Division of AMC at Wright Patterson Air Force Base for analysis is disputed by no one, to my knowledge. If that had been the case, Klinikowski would have known about it, but he didn't. Walter unequivocally assured me that there was no wreckage of a crashed flying saucer from Roswell or anywhere else at Wright Patterson. The rumors of the secret hangar and alien bodies are just that -- rumors. Klinikowski was kind enough to put me in touch with his former boss at the Foreign Technology Division, Walter Vatunac. Vatunac, who had actually been stationed at Roswell in the late 1940s, was the Director of Intelligence Collections at the Foreign Technology Division from 1957 until 1962. (The FTD was called the Air Technical Intelligence Center prior to 1961.) Like Klinikowsky, Vatunac found the matter of alien bodies and a crashed spaceship very humorous and was incredulous that so many people actually believe it. After my conversations with Klinikowsky and Vatunac, Harry Cordes, a former 509th pilot and a retired brigadier general, suggested I call a former acquaintance of his, George Weinbrenner, who had also been at the FTD. I contacted Weinbrenner, who was more than accommodating, especially when he foun out that I knew Walter Klinikowsky. Weinbrenner told me pretty much what I had already learned from Klinikowsky and Vatunac, but it was interesting talking to him, nonetheless. With respect to the crashed UFO subject, he also found it humorous and stated that "if something like that had happened, I would have known about it." He certainly would have. George Weinbrenner was the commander of the Foreign Technology Division for six years (1968 until 1974). I cannot state strongly enough that I have absolutely no doubt that these three men were telling me the truth. I repeat, no doubt. Those who want to rationalize away the facts by suggesting that these men are still participating in some super-long-term, massive coverup might give some thought to the following. If there had been a crashed UFO, and for some reason it was still being kept secret, why on earth would these men waste inordinate amounts of their own time playing a ridiculous game of charades with me? They wouldn't. There would be absolutely no reason for doing so. All they would have had to do, would have been to politely tell me they didn't know anything, and leave it at that. Klinikowsky, Vatunac, and Weinbrenner are all retired colonels. They all held important positions at the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson. As such, they represent the ultimate source of information with regard to the crashed UFO question. This is the word "right from the horse's mouth," the incontrovertible, irrefutable truth, the final confirmation -- no alien bodies, no secret hangar, and no UFO crash at Roswell. Case closed. A Red Herring In essence, the 1947 Roswell case has turned out to be a red herring, diverting time and resources away from resea rch into the real UFO phenomenon. Despite overwhelming facts to the contrary, there are those, however, who will fight to keep the myth alive at all cost. Roswell is a sacred cow for some, and a cash cow for others. Inevitably, there will be fierce opposition to much of what has been said in this article. I would be the last, however, to discourage rational and thoughtful response, for healthy debate and a free exchange of ideas are part of what makes our democratic system work. Any complete and reasonable response by those who still contend that a UFO crashed at Roswell in 1947 will need to directly address the points below, each of which would have to be a true statement if such a crash occurred: *A machine with unimaginable technological sophistication and consequent incredible reliability would have simply broken down and crashed. The only known wreckage from this sophisticated vehicle, capable of interstellar travel, would have consisted solely of a few short beams, pieces of foil-like material, and small pieces of thin plastic-like material. * By incredible coincidence, the material from the crashed spaceship would have very closely resembled the material left by the radar reflectors from a balloon array that went down in the same general area a few weeks earlier. * Despite the fact that this would have been the most spectacular event in recorded history, and despite the fact that word was already out that something had happened (because of Lt. Haut's press release), there was absolutely no contemporary discussion or talk about such an earthshaking event among the pilots and navigators of the close-knit 509th Bomb Group. * West Point graduate and retired general Thomas Dubose, would have to have lied nine times in an interview when he stated that the debris (definitely that from an ML-307 radar reflector) shown in the pictures in Ramey's office was not substituted material and was the "real debris" recovered from t e ranch northwest of Roswell. * Major General C. P. Cabell, Director of Intelligence for the Air Force at the Pentagon, who prepared a report on the unidentified flying object situation for the Secretary of Defense, astoundingly, would have been preparing the report totally ignorant of the fact that the Air Force was in possess on of a crashed flying saucer. * Three retired Air Force colonels, all former top officials at the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force base would have been lying to me -- unnecessarily wasting inordinate amounts of their own personal time in a protracted game of charades. We have now gotten to the heart of the story and established that the debris recovered from the Foster ranch and laid out on the Marcel kitchen floor was, except for some unusual symbols, of a very mundane nature. The following should then be asked of those still arguing the issue: How do you get a crashed alien spaceship out of such ordinary debris? What basis is there now for postulating the existence of a crashed UFO? The Future At the beginning of this article, I included a letter from a 6th-grade student, Lauren M., asking about Roswell and about information to help her prove that there are UFOs and aliens. My response to Lauren with respect to Roswell has already been made patently clear throughout this article. With respect to aliens, I would tell Lauren that probably only the most narrow-minded of people consider the earth as being the only place where there is intelligent life in the universe. The earth is but a small speck in a vast universe that is, according to current scientific thinking, most likely teaming with life -- some of it probably far more intelligent we are. Incredibly, New York Sun editorial writer and former civil war correspondent Francis Pharcellus Church seemed to have a grasp on all of this a hundred years ago. In his timeless editorial to Virginia O'Hanlon he wrote "In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge." UFOs or alien spcecraft, however, are another matter. While we don't yet have tangible evidence that alien spacecraft exist, there have been many intriguing sightings by credible people that seem to defy conventional explanation. Like the few brief tantalizing signals that have been picked up by the SETI program, the evidence for UFOs has not yet qualified as solid proof in the eyes of the scientific community. Perhaps that might come in Lauren's lifetime. If such confirmation does come, it would represent one of the most remarkable events in human history. The long-contemplated philosophical and scientific question of whether we are alone in the universe would be answered once and for all with absolute finality. Perhaps most important of all, the knowledge that it is possible for a civilization to survive the growing pains of becoming technologically advanced, without completely destroying itself and its environment in the process, would provide a renewed hope for the future of life here on earth. EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 5/6 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:58:37 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 5/6 Part Five. A Remarkable Resemblance During the sessions in Washington, D.C., the professional illustrator who was present drew a very accurate depiction of what Jesse, Jr., remembered -- the "I-beam-like" member with the symbols on it. After learning what a good recollection of the symbols Newton had, I arranged for him to work with he same illustrator so that we might have side-by-side sketches from the same perspective for comparison. As it turned out, the resemblance between the two sketches was remarkable. Even the artist commented that "it sure seemed like these two men were describing the same thing." Probably most amazing was the closeness of the color that the two men remembered. Other than Newton's color being more faded, the colors are nearly identical. The most significant discrepancy was the way the slight ridges on the upper and lower edges gave Jesse's beam the appearance of an I-beam-like cross section. This was probably due to a slight error in Jesse's recollection. His father, for example, remembered the small members as having a rectangular cross section. In a 1979 interview with journalist Bob Pratt, Jesse Marcel, Sr., stated, "...it was a solid member, rectangular members, just like you get with a square stick." It is entirely possible, however, that the particular member that Jesse, Jr., held, could have had a ridge on its edges for some unknown reason. The only other really significant discrepancy was in the color of the member. Jesse remembered it being about the same color as that of the foil-like material, while Irving Newton remembered it being almost white. Judging from the pictures taken in Ramey's office, however, the white that Newton recalled was probably accurate. According to Charles Moore, the project engineer for "Project Mogul," the sticks were covered with glue or glue-like substance. This would probably have given them a different color than that of raw wood, as well as a different feel or texture -- probably to the degree that someone who didn't know what they were, might not recognize them as wood. The only other discrepancies were minor, such as differences in the size and spacing of the symbols. For anyone who suspects that Irving Newton is participating in a 50-year coverup and making up the story about the symbols or flower patterns, all he needs to do is check out the July 9, 1947, Roswell Daily Record. Rancher Mac Brazel is quoted as talking about sticks, foil, and tape with flower patterns on it. The Alleged Substitution Most of us have seen the now-famous pictures of the debris from Roswell taken in General Roger Ramey's office at Fort Worth Army Air Field. General Ramey, Colonel Thomas Dubose, Major Jesse Marcel, and Warrant Officer Irving Newton appear in the pictures, posing with the debris. The debris is clearly visible in all seven existing pictures. There is absolutely no question that this is the debris from an ML-307 radar reflector. If this is the same debris that was recovered from the Foster ranch, then the Roswell case is closed, period. It's over, end of subject. In the January 1991 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal, there is an article by Jaime Shandera titled "New Revelations About the Roswell Wreckage: a General Speaks Up." The article included an extensive two-part interview with General Thomas Dubose, who was a colonel and General Ramey's chief of staff in 1947. Dubose met the plane carrying the material picked up outside of Roswell and personally took it to Ramey's office. During the first of the two interviews, Shandera realized that General Dubose was not familiar with and had not seen the pictures taken of the debris in Ramey's office. Shandera then sent Dubose a set of the pictures, prior to conducting the second interview. Throughout the two interviews, Shandera questioned Dubose with the doggedness of a district attorney, asking him nine times in nine different ways whether the debris had been switched. Nine times, General Dubose made it emphatically clear that the debris had not been switched. Among Dubose's responses were "We never switched anything...We were West Pointers -- we would never have done that...I have damn good eyesight...I had charge of that material, and it was never switched." When shown the pictures from Ramey's office and asked if he recognized the material, he replied, "Oh yes. That's the material that Marcel brought in to Ft. Worth from Roswell." In William Moore's book The Roswell Incident, Jesse Marcel, Sr., was interviewed about the debris. His responses were somewhat puzzling in that he indicated that the photos of him were of the actual debris, but that the later photos (without him) contained substituted material. Later photos with substituted debris (even if they existed) wouldn't really matter. If the debris in the photo with Major Marcel was the actual material, it was from an ML- 307 radar reflector. Again, end of story. Among Marcel's responses were "They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris.... The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo." During one of my interviews with Irving Newton, he mentioned how in Ramey's office, Marcel had pointed out the symbols and indicated that he (Marcel) thought they might be some form of alien writing. When I asked him if he was sure that it was Marcel who did that, Newton was emphatic that it was the man who "had collected the debris from the ranch." This is, of course, one further indication that the debris in Ramey's office was the debris from the Foster ranch. There was no substitution. The debris in the pictures was the same debris collected by Major Marcel at the Foster Ranch. It was the debris from an ML-307 radar reflector. There is also an interesting quote in Moore's book from Marcel about the so-called indestructibility of the material. It sounds like this now-legendary indestructibility was actually more the kind of indestructibility that you would find in material from something like a tough, paper-backed foil. Marcel stated, "It was possible to flex this stuff back and forth, even wrinkle it, but you could not put a crease in it that would stay, nor could you dent it at all. I would almost have to describe it as metal with plastic properties." One could also lay tough, paper-backed foil on the ground and pound away with a sledge hammer and quite possibly not dent it. Interestingly, the sledgehammer test was only hearsay, anyway. One of the airmen allegedly performed the test and told Marcel about it afterwards. This is possibly a good example of how rumors and myth begin. Besides, if this material was so indestructible, why did it break up into hundreds or thousands of little pieces? The real answer is, of course, that it was not so indestructible because it was from an ML-307 radar reflector that was apparently dragged across the ground as the balloon array descended.. The Witnesses The testimony of the late Jesse Marcel, Sr., is probably the most important, as well as the most controversial, of the whole Roswell story. In essence, it forms the foundation around which the rest of the case is built. However, because the debris he recovered was not extraterrestrial, it could not have been what he said it was. That does not mean, however, that he did not believe it was extraterrestrial. In my opinion, it is very possible, if not highly probable, that he sincerely believed until the day he died that the material was something, as he once put it, "not of this earth." A less-than-perfect memory of events so long ago, in combination with the suspicion on his part of a coverup above his level of security or outside his need to know, makes such a scenario entirely plausible. Unfortunately, because of minor, almost trivial, inconsistencies in some of the things Jesse Marcel, Sr., said, or is believed to have said, some have made caustic personal attacks against a man no longer around to defend himself -- and who was, in all probability, telling the truth as he recalled it. I have now spoken with a number of men from the 509th Bomb Group who knew Major Marcel. All had nothing but the highest regard and respect for him. Some of these attacks have been extended to Jesse Marcel, Jr., which I find astounding. As I have already mentioned, he is as sincere and honest as anyone I have ever known. Like his father before him, he served his country during time of war. Few people know it, but he was seriously injured during the Vietnam War when his helicopter was shot down, killing everyone else on board. Like all of us, Jesse might not have 100 percent perfect recall of every past event, but I would never question his word. In a way, because the debris recovered outside of Roswell in 1947 was not extraterrestrial, none of the other witness testimony really matters. If the story of a highly unusual and totally unprecedented event is killed at the source, subsequent corroborating testimony goes out the window. For example, in the summer of 1993, a man from Seattle, Washington, made the unprecedented claim that he had found a hypodermic syringe inside a sealed can of Pepsi Cola. The story was picked up by the media, and within days there were copycat claims against the Pepsi Cola Corporation all over the country. Unfortunately for those who jumped on the bandwagon, the original claim turned out to be false. Where did that leave the subsequent claimants? Out on a limb that had been cut off, and, in this particular case, facing up to $250,000 in fines and five years in jail. The testimony of some of the other Roswell witnesses has been all but validated in the public eye because of repeated media coverage. For this reason I will address a couple of cases. Former mortician Glenn Dennis and the elusive nurse, Naomi Self, who supposedly witnessed alien autopsies at the base hospital is one of the best-known elements of the 1947 Roswell event. Although I know and like Glenn Dennis on a personal level, I have to say that his story has lost all credibility . Glenn, incidentally, has been fully aware of the fact that researchers have been spending time and resources in an effort to locate a "Naomi Self." There was already significant circumstantial evidence to indicate that no such nurse ever existed, when a diligent young researcher from Arizona, Vic Golubic, all but confirmed the fact. He located the records of the Cadet Nurse Corps, where all nurses for the military were trained during the mid-1940s. When Golubic checked with Dennis about the correct spelling of "Self" and informed him about the Cadet Nurse Corps records, Dennis changed his story, telling Golubic that Self was not really the correct last name after all. Dennis, without giving a good reason for not doing so, also refused to tell Golubic the "real" last name. Sorry, Glenn, end of story. Both my father and I got to know Frank Kaufman very well and consider him a friend. However, as with Dennis, I have to say that in view of what we now know, there is no way that Kaufman's fantastic tale of a crashed spaceship with alien bodies could have any basis in reality. According to Kaufman's story, he was one of nine military men at the top-secret recovery operation 35 miles north of town. Other than Kaufman, the only other living member of the "original nine" was a General Robert Thomas. The last time my father and I were in Roswell, Kaufman showed us some of his pictures, including one with him standing next to a brigadier general. My father asked Kaufman if that was Thomas, to which Kaufman replied in the affirmative. Unfortunately, my father, who spent 30 years in the Air Force, was unable to recognize the general. I later checked at the Air Force records center and learned that not only was there no living General Robert Thomas, but there never was a General Robert Thomas. On being confronted with this, Kaufman informed me that Thomas was really just a "code name." The final witness testimony that I will address is that concerning Oliver W. (Pappy) Henderson. Millions have seen the "Unsolved Mystery" broadcast about Roswell with the scene of Pappy Henderson in his flight suit, leaning over and inspecting one of several alien bodies laid out on a hangar floor just prior to their being flown to Wright Patterson. Henderson, who died in 1986, on seeing a tabloid headline and story about Roswell, apparently told his wife that the story was true and that he had flown the wreckage and bodies to Wright Patterson. My best guess is that the testimony of Henderson' family years later was a case of memories of things read, or possibly seen in tabloid pictures, being blended or confused with memories of what Henderson may have actually said. During my extensive conversations with pilots from the 509th, I spoke with several who knew Henderson and remembered his having discussed the incident. Apparently Henderson, a C-54 transport pilot at the time, did fly some of the debris out of Roswell, possibly to Wright Patterson. Jesse Mitchell, one of the 509th pilots at the time and a retired lieutenant colonel, told me that Henderson told him that he never saw the debris and he had no idea what it was. Mitchell was a good friend of Henderson's and almost decided to go into the roofing business with him in Roswell after Henderson left the service. Another former member of the 509th, Sam McIlhaney, also a retired lieutenant colonel who knew Henderson well, told me that they used to talk about the incident occasionally while sitting around in the hangar. According to McIlhaney, Henderson considered the whole matter a big joke and used to kid about it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Name asteroid "3753" From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:58 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:52:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Name asteroid "3753" >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:45:56 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Name asteroid "3753" >List members, >The newly found earth companion is in need of a name. Something with more >panache than 3753. So if you can think of something, or if you want to just >check out the asteroids website, the following article should be of use. My I suggest Tonto, the ever-present and somewhat mysterious companion of the Lone Ranger? After all, we've used up most of the names from old Greek and Roman mythology. Let's go for some modern mythology. Or maybe, what was his name, Don Quixote's sidekick? Was it Pancho or Sancho? About time for some Hispanic names up there. Or was I thinking of Zorro's sidekick?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 10:16:49 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:55:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:41:27 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO converstion Karel, >>>>Mission STS-82 Update Half a year ago I've read a web-page from John Locker who wrote that he recorded a conversation of Mission STS-82 in which the participants describe seeing a UFO. <<<<< This may be the same as the video shown last weekend at the San Marino conference by Michael Hesemann. In this video a female astronaut looks out one of the shuttle windows, and says very clearly "Uh, we have an unidentified flying object...." Then she uses one of the hand video cameras to zoom in on the object out the window. Unfortunately, I didn't take notes of which STS mission this was. You could ask Michael about it. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Canadian-flavoured UFO Quiz From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:11:12 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:37:13 -0400 Subject: Canadian-flavoured UFO Quiz For those of you up to the challenge, here's a UFO Quiz created in honour of the 50th anniversary of UFOs. It has a slight Canadian slant, so some readers may find it a bit of a challenge! http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~rutkows/ufoquiz.htm -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:56 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:17:56 +0200 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> >Subject: CISU E-Mail >Dear Friends, >I suppose you may be interested in the new Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici >(Italy's most respected UFO organization, according to worldwide UFO >researchers) - C.I.S.U. - e-mail: cisu@ufo.it >Any request for information or general-purpose enquiry may be routed to it. >Sincerely, >Maurizio Verga >mauverga@tin.it Maurizio, "Italy's most respected UFO organization according to worldwide UFO researchers"???? Depends on WHICH researchers you talk to. Since I am affiliated with CUN (Centro Ufologico Nationale) I must point out that many worldwide UFO researchers consider US to be Italy's most respected UFO organization. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: London-Bound From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:24:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: London-Bound >Date: 14 Jun 97 12:09:07 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: London-Bound >Graham wrote; >>A full 90-minutes show featuring Timothy Good, >>Nick Pope, Stanton >>T. Friedman opposite the sceptics & debunkers. >Errr...which sceptics and debunkers? >James A Diss Dear James, All I can tell you at the moment is that Ian Ridpath, science=20 correspondent of the Daily Telegraph (UK broadsheet) is one of=20 the sceptics lined opposite the UFO proponents. Ian described Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret: The Worldwide=20 UFO Cover-Up" as "...this evil book" - should be an interesting=20 debate. By the way, if colleagues are scratching around for some equally interesting reading material you could do worse than obtain a copy=20 of the current No. 1 hardback here in Britain - "The Bible Code"=20 by Michael Drosnin. I spent =A320.00 over the weekend to purchase the book (couldn't=20 wait for the review copy) and don't know quite what to make of it.=20 According to BSKYB's "Book Show" it's currently selling 100,000=20 copies per week. A hidden code within the Bible? Amazing stuff.... Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 14:04:06 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:45:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 >While we have no idea what the debris from a crashed spaceship >would look like, it is reasonable to assume that it would reflect >a level of complexity and technological advancement beyond >imagination. Why??? I do not find this reasonable at all. In actual fact, it is often the case that as technology advances, mechanisms become simpler. A modern computer printer has far fewer parts than a vintage typewriter, for example, and a designer for one of those old typewriters would have been totally lost if handed the smashed remains of a modern inkjet printer. There would be no signs of technology! >It is not hard to imagine how the apparent misidentification >probably came about. During the previous two weeks, there had >been a wave of sightings of flying saucers or "disks" throughout >the United States and Canada. The sightings were something that >were in the news daily and were on almost everyone's mind -- an >"unknown" in the sky. At the same time, balloon arrays under a >secret project known as "Mogul" were being launched from the >Alamagordo area, just under 100 miles to the west of Roswell. >These balloon arrays carried ML-307 radar reflectors, which would >have been totally unfamiliar to Butch Blanchard, Jesse Marcel, and >the other men at Roswell AAF. The debris from one of these >reflectors scattered over the desert would likewise have been >something unfamiliar to them -- an "unknown" on the ground. >It is understandable that the unknown debris found northwest of >Roswell would have been assumed to be related to the unknown >objects that had been so frequently reported flying around in the >sky, the flying "disks." Such a connection, although with the >benefit of hindsight, incorrect, would have be n very logical and >understandable for the men at Roswell to make. This is almost >certainly how the Roswell story began. In other words all the witnesses were idiots who could not recognize a radar target, something many of them knew quite well. Also, Kent, why not be honest and report Jess Marcel's comments on his hypnosis sessions. He is not impressed in the slightest with your reasoning or assessment, and still sticks to his story that what he saw was not of known origin. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 14:03:55 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:44:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am reserving comment on most of Kent Jeffrey's lengthy article, but can not resist commenting on the following. >UFO Crashes >Even before the advent of recent negative developments in the >Roswell case, I have always felt that a UFO would never crash. >However, because of the impressive witness testimony about which >I was told, I suspended judgment and allowed for the possibility >that Roswell might be an exception -- some kind of >one-in-a-quintillion fluke. That was, in retrospect, a mistake. >The problem with the concept of a UFO crashing is that as >technology advances, so does reliability. Be it with cars, .airplanes, televisions, or wristwatches, the reliability of >today's technology far exceeds that of the technology of just a >few decades ago. For example, because of the high reliability of >their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are >now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic. A few >decades ago, that would have been unthinkable. (The positive >correlation between advancing technology and reliability applies >to "proven" technology, not experimental state-of-the art machines >still in the developmental phase, such as experimental aircraft >or space vehicles.) >With today's industry-average engine-failure rate of less than >one failure per 100,000 flight hours, the chances of both engines >of a two-engine jetliner failing during a given hour of flight >are less than one out of 10 billion. Figuring 50,000 >aircraft-ocean crossings per year, and factoring in such >variables as average time over the water and average distance >from land, the odds are less than fifty-fifty of a double-engine >failure and consequent ditching in the North Atlantic of even one >such aircraft over the next 10,000 years. >This incredible degree of reliability is found with a technology >that would be primitive compared with a UFO. Even with today's >relatively "primitive" technology, our commercial aircraft have >very efficient collision avoidance systems, as well as excellent >radar systems for avoiding thunderstorms and their associated >hail and lightning (phenomena, incidentally, that are surely not >unique to this planet). >If we assume that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft and that >some of the many reported UFO sightings are genuine UFOs, we are >dealing with machines apparently capable of high-speed >right-angle turns, incredible accelerations and speeds, and >wingless flight -- not to mention of traveling light-years >through the void of empty space in, presumably, a relatively >short period of time. Such capability would require a technology >totally beyond our present understanding of physics -- a >technology the sophistication of which we cannot even begin to >imagine. >Because of the positive correlation between technology and >reliability, such incredibly advanced technology would most >certainly mean a correspondingly high degree of reliability. >Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, >breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. It certainly >would be many orders of magnitude less than the already >infinitesimally small chance of one of today's twin-engine >jetliners having a double-engine failure.> First, I for one am not assuming that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft. I see no firm evidence for this, nor any strong evidence of technology much advanced above ours. The rest of this argument is misuse of statistics. I recommend that Kent, and anyone else interested, do some reading on how statistics work. The probability against an airliner simply blowing up shortly after takeoff may have been zillions to one, but that does not matter one whit to all the people who died instead of going to Paris. Kent should heed the popular wisdom: "Sh*t happens!". Indeed it does. Even the most perfect system can have a catastrophic failure. >Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, >breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. This is nonsense. Even if the probability is billions to one against an event happening, it still can, and very often does. We hear of events all the time which happened, and the news media delight in spouting how improbable they were. Time to talk to a statistician, Kent. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:53 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:51:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:21:04 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kent Jeffery's Debunking Article In The MUFON Journal >I call on Kent Jeffery to respect the 20 thousand plus signers of the >petition and to remove himself completely from this project. I ask him to >put out a personal definative statement saying that he has removed himself. >He owes this to all the signers of the petition. Ed, In his latest newsletter Phil Klass comes down hard on me for being critical of Kent Jeffrey. Here is what Phil says: >_Rumors of Kent Jeffrey's New Roswell Views Trigger Shockwaves on >Internet_: While it is to be expected that crashed-saucer believers >would be surprised at Jeffrey's recent change-of-heart on the Roswell >Incident, they are leveling harsh accusations against him _without >waiting to read his explanation to see if it might change their own >views_. For example, _Bob Shell_ (an early SCAM supporter) suggests >that Jeffrey might have been a covert debunker who disguised his true >views. Shell commented: " I knew Kent for what he really was when >he wrote that bullshit thing {article] on Alien Autopsy for MUFON. >He is, in truth, a wolf in sheep's clothing...." I have now read Kent's declaration which a number of people have very kindly forwarded to me. No, it is not as bad as I thought. It is, in fact, a lot worse!!! As you found when you read it, Ed, it is simple debunkery, and not very sophisticated debunkery at that. Are we to believe that Kent was really a serious, dedicated Roswell researcher and then had his mind changed by this puny "evidence"? I think not. My advice to others is read it. It's pretty widely available now. And if this reads like someone who has had a serious change-of-heart (to borrow Phil's hyphens), then so be it. But if, instead, it reads like a debased attempt to throw road blocks in front of serious disclosure and research, all should join in your call on Jeffrey to remove himself from the issue at once. He can only do harm now. And: Note to Phil, since someone is obviously forwarding these posts to you. No, it does not read like a serious researcher's change of heart. It reads like an experienced (shall we say professional) debunker's attempt to pretend a change of heart, and it changes my mind about NOTHING.. As I said before, Jeffrey is making himself into the Benedict Arnold of UFOlogy. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:46:53 -0400 Subject: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE By Ed Komarek 6/16/97 Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! After many years in the UFO field I came to two very important realizations. One was that the UFO/ET problem was political and disserving of political solutions because we were dealing with a UFO/ET coverup. The other was that the UFO community was a intelligence agents playground and I had better start studying intelligence techniques to get on top of the intelligence game.(Not to be confused with all those that cry wolf every time someone does not agree with them. It takes a well informed individual to tell who the REAL intelligence operatives are.) In the intelligence game the plan is always to be a step ahead of the opposition. One cannot afford to wait until all the facts are out or the facts hit you in the chest. If a report comes in that there is a machine gun nest up the hill one must assume that it is there until proven otherwise. If not, you will not live long. Then the worst that can happen is that your assumption is wrong and if it is right you just saved your life. One must gather bits and pieces of information and then try to put them together is a way that approximates reality. In the intelligence game we must fly by the seat of our pants and there is a art as well as a science to the game. Some people make better intelligence agents than others. The quality of a intelligence operative must be judged by results. The above said, I have been onto Kent Jeffery for weeks even though I have caught hell from some in the UFO community. Today his debunking article is up all over the net and the distribution of the petitions is little more than three weeks away. In my opinion, now that the evidence is before us, we are not left with much time to counter attack and compromise Jeffery's brilliant treacherous move. We must try to think ahead to what his next move will be. That should be to distribute the petitions to the White House before the mainstream press expecialy the press such as the Washington AP which I believe has connections to the intelligence community. They have trashed ORTK in the past and have yet to put out a article that was not an attempt to debunk the UFO/ET subject. Some of our ORTK folks even have talked to the AP Bureau Chief. This seems also to be the case with the LA Times, Washington Post and the New York Times. (There are some good documents out on the close relationship between reporters and the intelligence community.) What makes the AP debunking articles so devastating is that the AP is distributed to most of the local press in the country. Its a choke point for information. I bet Jeffery has already contacted them and they are cocked and loaded. So how do we stop Jeffery? I can think off hand of three ways. One is to get a court order I wonder if the CSETI people might be able to help here. Another is air this whole controversy in the mainstream press before Jeffery delivers the petitions. And last have pro Roswell people at the petition site. I have to assume for tactical reasons that he is going to deliver the petitions personally. If we can get the controversy out in friendly mainstream media like CNN before hand we compromise what could be massive negative publicity that Jeffery could get the first week of July. I and others are working on all this now and anybody who would like to join us please let me know. We must move quickly to try to turn this around and back into our favor. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) (Maybe not as paranoid as you had been led to believe) ------------ To get a copy of the Jeffery article go to the archive below and click on Updates and then today's mail. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/ From this site you can monotor the IUFO and Updates lists. Go to number 7. ------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins Or in more detail for those having trouble subscribing. To subscribe to the ORTK Bulletin by Ed Komarek send: subscribe ortk-bulletins in the spot for messages called the message body. Put this where you would other wise put your message that you would write to another person. In the place where you would put the individual's address to which you were mailing put: listserve@awaiter.com If you subscribed correctly and did not leave out a letter or symbol anywhere you will get back a message saying you are subscribed. The subject area you can leave blank it does not matter. --------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:40:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:07:13 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 >Part One. >ROSWELL -- ANATOMY OF A MYTH >by Kent Jeffrey ============================== Hello Errol, All, First. Errol, thanx once again for providing a balanced and even handed presentation of this material. 'UpDates' is 'quality' because _you_ put it there! I've been following the thread involving Kent Jeffreys with interest. After reading his piece, I find it to be reasonable, well documented, and presented in a very clear and rational manner. Kents' contribution to the (massive) body of Roswell literature is every bit as 'credible' and important (and in certain instances moreso, ie; FOIA documents cited) as anything else that's been produced on the subject. I've never been real big in the 'dogma' department and it bothers me to no end that rationally presented alternative viewpoints or data are dismissed because they don't fit in with the accepted party line. Isn't that what some so called UFOlogists accuse the 'skeptics and debunkers' of? Worse yet, is this almost infantile (and definitely paraniod) habit some have of accusing anyone with a different view point of being an agent of the Illuminati or the dreaded CIANSAFBI. It's become such a knee jerk reaction among 'certain members' of the UFO community, that they, (the individuals that consistantly do it) really need to be addressed as a whole seperate issue. Culled from the herd. Speaking for myself, I have a strong tendency to immediately dismiss individuals that are guilty of it. Folks that see 'agents' in every dark corner are every bit as suspect (to me) as those that claim they are in mental contact with Beldar from Remulac, or among the 144,000 saved souls prophesized in Revelations, or who claim to have the market on the 'truth' cornered. In my (very) humble oppinion, Kent Jeffrey has contributed some solid information and raised valid points and questions in regard to Roswell. We must help one another to keep our minds open, inquiring, and unfettered by dogmatism. Once things start to become accepted as unquestioned fact, all hope for the discovery of the truth is lost. Because of my, (and my familys) personal stake in it, the truth, whatever that may eventually turn out to be, must remain of paramount importance. Damn the rigid, unquestioning dolts on both sides! They do us _all_ a grave diservice. Note: "Coma-wreck," are you listening? <Evil G> *John Velez, *(Far from an expert on Roswell, but _can add_ 2+2, and smell fresh cowpie when placed directly under my nose! <G>) * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 Re: Mission STS-82 UFO Conversation From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:23:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:51:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Mission STS-82 UFO Conversation >Date: 16 Jun 97 10:16:49 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO converstion >>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:41:27 +0200 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO converstion >>>>>Mission STS-82 Update >Half a year ago I've read a web-page from John Locker who wrote that he >recorded a conversation of Mission STS-82 in which the participants >describe seeing a UFO. ><<<<< >This may be the same as the video shown last weekend at the San Marino >conference by Michael Hesemann. In this video a female astronaut looks >out one of the shuttle windows, and says very clearly "Uh, we have an >unidentified flying object...." Then she uses one of the hand video >cameras to zoom in on the object out the window. That was Mission STS-73. Karel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 16 CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:45:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:49:51 -0400 Subject: CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 The Center for the Study of Intelligence, which "supports research and publishing on the intelligence profession and its various disciplines and declassifies historical records related to US intelligence operations during the Cold War", publishes "Studies in Intelligence", a compilation of related articles. Issue 1997 Vol. 1, No. 1, contains a study written by Gerald K. Haines, the National Reconnaissance Office historian, which sets out to explain his view of the relationship between the CIA and the public on the subject of UFOs, between 1947-1990. Now declassified, the document, entitled: A Die-Hard Issue CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 is on-line at the Center's web site and can be found at URL: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Haines covers the reaction to Kenneth Arnold's sighting, the establishment of projects "Sign", "Grudge" and "Blue Book", The Robertson Panel, the U-2 as a prevalent "UFO", Keyhoe and NICAP's influence, The Condon Committee and the MJ-12 documents. Something for everyone and an insightful perception overall. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 21:41:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:28:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:53 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffery's Debunking Article In The MUFON >Journal >And: Note to Phil, since someone is obviously forwarding these posts >to you. No, it does not read like a serious researcher's change of >heart. It reads like an experienced (shall we say professional) >debunker's attempt to pretend a change of heart, and it changes >my mind about NOTHING.. As I said before, Jeffrey is making himself >into the Benedict Arnold of UFOlogy. Bob, I don't want to sound paranoid like Ed, but have you considered Kent perhaps being _forced_ in one way or another to write all that crap? No. Guess it's a bit _too_ paranoid. Or..is it? Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:48:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:07:01 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >SNIP >UFO Crashes >Even before the advent of recent negative developments in the >Roswell case, I have always felt that a UFO would never crash. >However, because of the impressive witness testimony about which >I was told, I suspended judgment and allowed for the possibility >that Roswell might be an exception -- some kind of >one-in-a-quintillion fluke. That was, in retrospect, a mistake. >The problem with the concept of a UFO crashing is that as >technology advances, so does reliability. Be it with cars, >airplanes, televisions, or wristwatches, the reliability of >today's technology far exceeds that of the technology of just a >few decades ago. For example, because of the high reliability of >their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are >now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic. A few >decades ago, that would have been unthinkable. (The positive >correlation between advancing technology and reliability applies >to "proven" technology, not experimental state-of-the art machines >still in the developmental phase, such as experimental aircraft >or space vehicles.) >With today's industry-average engine-failure rate of less than >one failure per 100,000 flight hours, the chances of both engines >of a two-engine jetliner failing during a given hour of flight >are less than one out of 10 billion. Figuring 50,000 >aircraft-ocean crossings per year, and factoring in such >variables as average time over the water and average distance >from land, the odds are less than fifty-fifty of a double-engine >failure and consequent ditching in the North Atlantic of even one >such aircraft over the next 10,000 years. >This incredible degree of reliability is found with a technology >that would be primitive compared with a UFO. Even with today's >relatively "primitive" technology, our commercial aircraft have >very efficient collision avoidance systems, as well as excellent >radar systems for avoiding thunderstorms and their associated >hail and lightning (phenomena, incidentally, that are surely not >unique to this planet). >If we assume that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft and that >some of the many reported UFO sightings are genuine UFOs, we are >dealing with machines apparently capable of high-speed >right-angle turns, incredible accelerations and speeds, and >wingless flight -- not to mention of traveling light-years >through the void of empty space in, presumably, a relatively >short period of time. Such capability would require a technology >totally beyond our present understanding of physics -- a >technology the sophistication of which we cannot even begin to >imagine. >Because of the positive correlation between technology and >reliability, such incredibly advanced technology would most >certainly mean a correspondingly high degree of reliability. >Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, >breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. It certainly >would be many orders of magnitude less than the already >infinitesimally small chance of one of today's twin-engine >jetliners having a double-engine failure. >SNIP Kent, I'm reading your posting with great interest. However, with THIS particular LINE of thinking, I have only one PHRASE to say. Can you say "Unsinkable Titanic!" Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:30:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >From: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:58:59 +1000 (EST) > Hi David: >>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:44:32 -0400 >>To: Updates@globalserve.net >>From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >>Subject: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >If you check out Kent Jeffrey's new article on his Roswell >investigations at www.roswell.org/ you'll find that he interviewed 17 >pilots and navigators who were stationed at Roswell Army Air Field in >July of 1947. All of the bomber pilots had TOP SECRET clearances and >were a tightly-knit group. They all told Kent that nothing unusual >happened at RAAF on July 8, 1947, except for a little excitement >caused by that news release. This is a preposterous idea. Just because you have a top secret clearance, it doesn't mean that you are privy to everything that is top secret. Kent ignores or rejects the testimony that doesn't fit his new view. Kent writes, about the men of the 509th Bomb Group, "Most of them heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started. The few men who did recall hearing about the incident at the time of its occurrence said that the inside word was that the debris was from a downed balloon of some kind and that there was no more than 'one wheelbarrow full'." Overlooking the fact that highly classified events would not be discussed among the officers because they were, by definition, highly classified, let's look at a statement by Colonel (later brigadier general) Thomas DuBose. According to him, and recorded on video tape (August 10, 1990), "He (Major General Clements McMullen, deputy commander of SAC) called me and said... Nobody, and I must stress this, no one was to discuss this with their wives, me with Ramey, with anyone. The matter, as far as we're concerned, it was closed." What we have here is evidence of orders, coming from the headquarters of the Strategic Air Command that the officers of the Eighth Air Force and the 509th Bomb Group were not to discuss this matter amongst themselves. Those who were not involved would not be told about it because of the high classification. And those former members of the 509th who believe that had something like this happened they would have heard about it must rethink their theory. Many military units have secrets that are shared only with those who have a need to know. To suggest a sharing of classified material with those who are not cleared to hear it reveals a misunderstanding of how this works. And, remember, DuBose acknowledged that an order had been given. In other words, it makes no difference what these 17 men said or believed. Because they weren't invovled doesn't mean it didn't happen. KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | legion |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Ed Komarek - Oh, the Humanity... From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 18:07:36 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:55:32 -0400 Subject: Ed Komarek - Oh, the Humanity... THE HORRIBLE TRUTH! (oh, the humanity) Ed Komarek Is a Counter-Double-Disinfo De-debunker Obsessed With Discrediting the UFO Phenomenon and Making All Ufologists Look Like Kooks. Evidence, nah, just take my word for it. How do we stop his insidious plot? >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE >By Ed Komarek >6/16/97 >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >After many years in the UFO field I came to two very important realizations. >One was that the UFO/ET problem was political and disserving of political >solutions because we were dealing with a UFO/ET coverup. The other was that >the UFO community was a intelligence agents playground and I had better >start studying intelligence techniques to get on top of the intelligence >game.(Not to be confused with all those that cry wolf every time someone >does not agree with them. It takes a well informed individual to tell who >the REAL intelligence operatives are.) To Ed - Clue Number One: Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that the person holding a contrary opinion to your own is therefore a "debunker" or "disinformation agent." Indiscriminately tossing those charges around (without a shred of substantiation) only serves to make you look like a kook. >The above said, I have been onto Kent Jeffery for weeks even though I have >caught hell from some in the UFO community. Today his debunking article is >up all over the net and the distribution of the petitions is little more >than three weeks away. In my opinion, now that the evidence is before us, >we are not left with much time to counter attack and compromise Jeffery's >brilliant treacherous move. "Treacherous"? Ahem... >So how do we stop Jeffery? I can think off hand of three ways. One is to >get a court order I wonder if the CSETI people might be able to help here. >Another is air this whole controversy in the mainstream press before >Jeffery delivers the petitions. And last have pro Roswell people at the >petition site. I have to assume for tactical reasons that he is going to >deliver the petitions personally. A court order against Kent Jeffery for what -- holding an opinion that differs from your own? You apparently didn't even bother to read Jeffery's article before launching into your screed. >If we can get the controversy out in friendly mainstream media like CNN >before hand we compromise what could be massive negative publicity that >Jeffery could get the first week of July. I and others are working on all >this now and anybody who would like to join us please let me know. >We must move quickly to try to turn this around and back into our favor. To Ed - Clue Number Two: FOR GOD'S SAKE, MAN, STAY AWAY FROM MAINSTREAM MEDIA! YOU'RE ONLY MAKING UFOLOGY (IN GENERAL) AND YOURSELF (IN PARTICULAR) LOOK BAD! You have become the embodiment of the archetypical UFO geek: an over-inflated sense of self-importance and delusions of both grandeur and infallibility -- coupled with a pathological need for publicity. I would submit, sir, that as you become louder and more hysterical with your denunciations of people like Kent Jeffrey and Dennis Stacy (both of whom have made undisputed contributions to ufology), you are doing much more damage to the field than the legions of "debunkers" and "disinfo agents" you seem to be obsessed with. >The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) >(Maybe not as paranoid as you had been led to Perhaps more so, Ed. VINCE Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Bob Shell attacks Kent Jeffrey From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:22:42 -0400 Subject: Bob Shell attacks Kent Jeffrey From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jun 97 14:04:06 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:45:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 >Also, Kent, why not be honest and report Jess Marcel's comments >on his hypnosis sessions. He is not impressed in the slightest >with your reasoning or assessment, and still sticks to his story >that what he saw was not of known origin. Are you suggesting that Jesse Marcel, Jr is in some way mad at Kent for his opinion? Have you seen the hypnosis sessions? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:51:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:36:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO Victor Kean & List Members, >Whilst we are waiting for the missing STS-48 video would anyone like to comment >upon the transmission from 'Discovery' on March 14th 1989 (06:42 EST) over the >French Polynesian Islands in the Pacific, when one of the astronauts reported: >"HOUSTON, THIS IS DISCOVERY. WE STILL HAVE THE ALIEN SPACECRAFT UNDER >OBSERVANCE' Has anyone checked to see if the word is "Arien"? This would make perfect sense. I believe Arien is a French spacecraft. Francis Ridge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: London-Bound From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:15:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:37:24 -0400 Subject: Re: London-Bound >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:24:45 -0400 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: London-Bound >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: 14 Jun 97 12:09:07 EDT >>From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: London-Bound >>Graham wrote; (snip) >A hidden code within the Bible? Amazing stuff.... ==================================================== Hello Graham, hi All, Awhile back I attended a seminary, (Interfaith, for two years) in order to make a detailed study of comparative religion. I had the great good fortune to be able to familiarize myself with Hebrew Mysticism (Qabalah) with the kind help of one Rabbi Jos. H. Gelberman. The Rabbi told me of three mathematical systems used for decoding the Bible. Ex: One such system as practised by Hassidic scholars is called, 'Sud'. BTW, this is all supposed to be very secret, hush-hush information (not intended for the ears of the Goyem! <G>) that prior to the creation of the 'internet' was handed down from teacher to desciple for countless centurys. The original Hebrew text, (the first five books of the Bible - 'The Books of Moses' - the 'Pentateuch'.*Hebrew Mystics do not acknowledge any of the remaining books in the Bible as we know it today!) is written without punctuation! There is just a stream of characters. The Hebrew characters can be grouped in different ways (using the different mathematical codes) in order to reveal/derive entirely different meanings from the very same string of characters. Cute way to hide the pearls and keep them from being trampled underfoot by the great unwashed! Information has always translated into power. In this way, the early 'priesthood' insured awe and respect, but most of all control of the masses. There is first a literal level of meaning to the text, and then depending upon which one of the mathematical 'deciphering codes' is employed it will reveal deeper and deeper levels of meaning. The Bible, when deciphered in this manner begins to sound more and more like a treatise on theoretical physics rather than a philosophical or religious text. Genesis for example, when interpreted in this manner literally describes the _physical process_ of the "Creation." The creation of 'Some-thing' from 'No-thing.' For those who are able to find beauty in such things, the original Hebrew + the deciphering system, explains the 'Univerculum' in very modern sounding terms, it describes the orderly, logical, and mathematical progression from Chaos to Order! <G> For those interested in learning more, I highly recommend reading, "The Quantum Gods" subtitled, "The Origin and Nature of Matter and Consciousness" by Jeff Love. $7.95 Publisher, Samuel Wiser Inc. 740 Broadway, New York, NY, 10003 USA. First published in Great Britain 1976 by The Compton Press Ltd. Tisbury, Wiltshire. ISBN 0-87728-476-8 Perfect for laymen, kind of like 'Qabalah 101' and a bonafide thought provoker! <G> Take care Graham. John Velez * *** ***** ******* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * * * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * * * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ******* ***** *** * Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | 106151.1150 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Kent Jeffery's Research From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> [David Furlotte] Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:48:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:25:12 -0400 Subject: Kent Jeffery's Research To All, I will be VERY interested and follow with MUCH enthusiasm the various postings that shall come out within the next several weeks regarding Kent Jeffery's journey into the Roswell Incident. Kent, Firstly, let me state that YOURS is one of the most level-headed posts that I've seen regarding Roswell. If in fact everything is as you state in your posts I personally am saddened that such a thing can get so blown out of proportion. The question basically boils down to one of whether Kent is telling us the truth or not? His explanations are plausible and taking his word for it at this point, I must say that I'm taken aback in realizing that nobody else has spent the time or effort that he has in the almost 50 years of the event or in this case, NON-event having happened. Stan, Kevin, I'll be VERY curious to see your comments in ALL of this. It will also be interesting to see if Dr. Marcel confirms the hypnotic regression interview. Still very open minded, Dave (Furry)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:29:16 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:53 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffery's [sic] Debunking Article In The MUFON >Journal Hi Bob, > In his latest newsletter Phil Klass comes down hard on me for being > critical of Kent Jeffrey. Here is what Phil says: [snipped] That's not all he came down on you hard for -- you left out the last part of what Phil had to say about you: _A_ _CASE_ _OF_ _"SOUR GRIPES?"_ Shell's harsh comments may stem from the fact that Jeffrey was one of the first Roswell crashed-saucer proponents to publicly denounce the Santilli film as a hoax in 1995 while Shell was strongly endorsing its authenticity. For example, on Aug. 28, 1995, Shell said there was a "95% probablility that the film was manufactured, exposed and processed in 1947... I know who the cameraman is, I know where he is." Shell's reluctance to denounce SCAM as a hoax recalls the sage observation of French philosopher Charles Peguy: "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth make himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." Sounds like a nice way to call you a PR Flak, no? > As you found when you read it, Ed, it is simple debunkery, > and not very sophisticated debunkery at that. Are we to > believe that Kent was really a serious, dedicated Roswell > researcher and then had his mind changed by this puny > "evidence"? I think not. My advice to others is read it. It's > pretty widely available now. And if this reads like someone > who has had a serious change-of-heart (to borrow Phil's hyphens), > then so be it. But if, instead, it reads like a debased attempt to > throw road blocks in front of serious disclosure and research, all > should join in your call on Jeffrey to remove himself from the > issue at once. He can only do harm now. So you don't think Kent was serious... do you have any idea? I'm going out on a limb here, because I don't really know what these guys will say, but I wonder what the other serious Roswell researchers will have to say about Kent? Kevin Randle, I'm positive that you will disagree with Kent's conclusion, but do you think Kent was serious? Do you think he is controlled by som evil-alphabet soup agency? What about you, Mr. Friedman? Mr. Pflock? And all the rest of you serious Roswell researchers, what do you think? Do the ravings of Bob Shell (whom I would not categorize as a serious researcher) have any merit to any of you? > And: Note to Phil, since someone is obviously forwarding these posts > to you. No, it does not read like a serious researcher's change of > heart. It reads like an experienced (shall we say professional) > debunker's attempt to pretend a change of heart, and it changes > my mind about NOTHING.. As I said before, Jeffrey is making > himself into the Benedict Arnold of UFOlogy. If Kent Jeffrey is the Benedict Arnold, what exactly would that make you Mr. Shell? If Roswell is such a good case, why is everyone so up in arms of Kent's flimsy evidence? Rebecca PS. Who is the cameraman? Where is he?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:28:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:09:07 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE >By Ed Komarek >6/16/97 Ed writes, >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! (merciful snip) >So how do we stop Jeffery? I can think off hand of three ways. One is to >get a court order I wonder if the CSETI people might be able to help here. > Another is air this whole controversy in the mainstream press before >Jeffery delivers the petitions. And last have pro Roswell people at the >petition site. I have to assume for tactical reasons that he is going to >deliver the petitions personally. What we should really be asking ourselves is how do we stop you! <G> Gag orders, media campaign, 'pro-Roswell people' (I'm still trying to figure that one out!) I gotta ask Ed, why do you find Kent Jeffery such an immediate threat that you react like a cornered cat? Lashing out, making wild and (as of yet) unsubstantiated accusations. Because you have access to the internet, it does not give you license to say anything you damn well please about anyone that is unfortunate enough to disagree with or (threaten) your beliefs,..why do I feel like I'm talking to Boylan? >If we can get the controversy out in friendly mainstream media like CNN >before hand we can promise what could be massive negative publicity that >Jeffery could get the first week of July. I and others are working on >>all this now and anybody who would like to join us please let me know. There are others? How did you guys find each other? "Massive negative publicity" directed at someone who's rationality, reasonable presentation and careful research make you and the stuff that comes out of ORTK look like the Ritz Bros. on a really bad day! Why? To what end? Make the calls, speak to the same people that Kent spoke to, research the documentation, and then come back and tell us if you found any discrepencies or signs of deception. Ranting away through your computer, from somewhere in the deep woods (without) doing the actual legwork just isn't going to get it Ed. You should learn from Rich Boylans example, you're sure as shootin following in his footsteps. Just let me know when the intelligence community sends its' hit squads after _you_ O-K? >We must move quickly to try to turn this around and back into our favor. Refill the Prozac Rx! That'll turn it around all right. <G> >The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) >(Maybe not as paranoid as you had been led to believe) Maybe moreso! <G> My best back atcha, John Velez * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:53 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:46:53 -0400 >Subject: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE >By Ed Komarek >6/16/97 >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! Well, if you are thinking about putting a hit out on him, be sure to spell his name right. I'd hate for the wrong person to be caught in the crossfire. It's Kent Jeffrey, not Jeffery, not Jefferys. K-E-N-T J-E-F-F-R-E-Y. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Project 1947 - Roswell 50th Anniversary - Help From: John Stepkowski <legion@WERPLE.NET.AU> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:55:31 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:41:32 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Roswell 50th Anniversary - Help Hi All; Perhaps someone here might be able to help Mr Ovalle out? Thank you. - John ===================================================================== >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:26:56 +0000 >From: James Ketsdever <jpketz@ccnet.com> >To: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Roswell 50th Anniversary Greetings! My name is Tomas Ovalle(cybrdude@ccnet.com). I am a photographer for the Valley Times in Pleasanton. I am doing a story on the 50th anniversary of Roswell and I am looking for people who are attending the festivities in New Mexico. I am interested in finding UFO aficionados from either,Fresno,Pleasanton,Livermore,Dublin,Concord, Walnut Creek,San Ramon, or Alamo,CA. What would be the best way to find people from these areas? THanks for your suggestions. Tomas 510-847-2131 -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: legion | jpketz |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 05:36:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:32:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce >>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:37:55 -0400 >>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Bentwaters: Project Pounce >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:13 +0200 >Subject: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (fwd) >>Stig submitted a "Special Report by Col. Wilson": >On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We >received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint US/British >NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing where we >would be met by a Special Delta Force team. >>Who exactly are "we" and who issued the command? >>Is there any reason to believe this isn't a bogus story? As mentioned in the post, it was forwarded from the mailing list of Francisco Lopez - d005734c@dc.seflin.org - while he received it from the "Skywatch" mailing list. The author of the post, Colonel Steve Wilson, is the "executive director" of the Skywatch organisation which has a website, too, where Wilson ("Topgrizly") offers this short bio of himself: *** http://www.wic.net/page/50bios-z.htm#topgrizly TopGrizly Escaped the orphanage at age 14 and joined the Army Air Force. It was easy to get in back then. Came up through the ranks from Private to a Full Colonel after 40 years. Went to flight school at Kelly AF Base, Texas. Was in the Korean, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Auckland and Persian Gulf Wars. Time out for College and majored in Archaeology, Paleontology. A highly decorated fighter pilot and triple Ace. One of a few holders of the Air Medal of Honor, Silver Star, with 2 DSC's (Distinguished Service Cross), wounded in action twice with two purple hearts, AF commendation medal and the POW/MIA award. After a strange encounter with a UFO, was assigned to Branch of Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UFO Investigations). At one time was attached to the 1st Air Force Special Forces Air Command. A 5' 11" Stocky individual now makes his home in Grand Junction, Colorado. Never Married. (end) Further details on Wilson's military career were furnished by Richard Boylan in an e-mail to the IUFO mailing list on May 22, 1997. The text deals with the congressional briefing which was initiated by CSETI, and it deserves notice that Strom Thurmond were among the participants. At the end of the letter Wilson's involvement with Project Pounce is mentioned. *** Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Date: Thu, 22 May 97 10:04:16 -0800 Subject: IUFO: Show & Tell To: iufo@world.std.com -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List SHOW and TELL: Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Going Public By Richard Boylan, Ph.D. On April 9, 1997, a closed briefing was given Congressional, White House and other Administration officials on evidence of UFO reality and extraterrestrial presence. A witness revealed that among the dignitaries were Senator Strom Thurmond, Congressman Weingard, and the wife of the CIA Director. Testimony was given by Apollo astronaut Mitchell, Dr. Greer, and two dozen other prime government-insider witnesses. (snip) A further glimpse into the military's secretive obsession with UFO technology was provided by retired Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson in late May, 1997, in response to reports of a huge UFO over Phoenix in mid-May. Colonel Wilson, who formerly headed the Air Force's Project Pounce [UFO recovery teams], said that there has been a stringent "lock-down" on Air Force personnel discussing UFOs since January 3, 1994. That was the date the military began publicly flying the enormous Black Triangle antigravity craft, which the Colonel said were back- engineered from UFOs. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA. (916) 455-0120 E-mail: rich.boylan@24stex.com ; Primary website: www.ufonetwork.com/boylan/ Author of: Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, Labored Journey To The Stars and Project Epiphany. (end) >We were to contact the Base Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor... >>Wouldn't that have been Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams, or >>Colonel Ted Conrad? Wilson is clearly wrong, but his memory might have failed him, so his story cannot be discounted just for this one reason. Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams was the overall US commander of the adjacent bases RAF Woodbridge and RAF Bentwaters, which together housed the US Air Force 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, while Squadron Leader Donald Moreland was the bases overseer appointed by the British government. Colonel Ted Conrad was the Bentwaters base commander, and the Woodbridge base commander was Colonel Sam Morgan who released the first, though edited, copy of the Halt tape to solicitor and UFO investigator, Harry Harris, in 1984. The tape was recorded "live" during the event. >...and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The Deputy Base Commander >about the UFO sighting and landing there. We were to view the >complete filming including the landing. >>This presumably being a reference to the alleged landing claimed to >>have been witnessed by Larry Warren. The evidence supporting >>that story is not too strong. >>Why no apparent interest in the triangular-shaped object witnessed >>at length in the forest a couple of night's previously? It's possible >>authenticity is supported by a number of cohesive accounts and it's >>a report which Colonel Halt (ret.) still stands by. >>As none of the witnesses to that event claim it was filmed and as >>Halt is adamant the events he witnessed in the forest a couple of >>nights later weren't filmed either, what film was there to watch? Warren embellishes his story each time he's telling it and can readibly be discounted as a reliable witness. Concerning the filming, at least photographs were taken. The latest edition of CNI News (Vol. 3 No. 7 Part 2) carries an excerpt from a longer transcript of a May 13, 1997 interview conducted by journalist A.J.S. Rayl with Colonel Charles I. Halt, USAF (ret.), for Project Watchfire on the Microsoft Network. A.J.S. Rayl wrote extensively for OMNI magazine and his latest credit is the cover story for this year's U.S. Nobel Foundation Conference Magazine. Part of the excerpt deals with the photographic evidence: *** Rayl: What happened to the evidence? You, as I understand, took photographs that night. Halt: The individual from Disaster Preparedness that had the Geiger-counter was also a professional photographer. He took one if not two rolls of film of the indentations, of marks on the trees, of the objects in the sky, and he developed them. I gave him a call a day or two later, and said, "How did the film come out?" And he said, "It's all fogged." I said, "Fogged? Are you sure you didn't make a mistake?" "No," he said, "I've been doing this for many years. Obviously, something happened to the film." So, as far as I know, that night, there were no good photographs. There was no video. There was no film taken, to my knowledge. (end) >Our investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in the >grass... >>Uh-oh...it wasn't perchance...please say it wasn't.... >This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) >>Oh good grief. It's easier to ridicule than to contemplate, but try to check your sarcasm when you read the information below. I do not bring it as an endorsement of Wilson's story, by the way, but to add a little zest. It was published by UFO Roundup: *** To: alt.paranet.ufo UFO Update Articles from the Net, edited by Jason Last week, UFO ROUNDUP reported the strange case of the "crop circle" etched in cement in the backyard patio of a retired couple living in Hemitt, California. Now some startling New information has been offered in this case. . (snip) MARCH 8, 1997 Indianapolis, Indiana Contact: Terry Coddington (889) 889-3612 According to retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson, there was a similar incident in Hemitt nearly 35 years ago, back in the summer of 1962. Col. Wilson writes, "In July 1962, I investigated exactly the same kind of circle that was found by Mr. Peffly of Hemitt, Cal., who worked for the (California) Division of Forestry based in Hemitt. This circle appeared at the forestry camp at Puerta La Cruz, where Mr. Peffly worked. (USAF) Tests were done on the substance and it was found (to be) only slightly radioactive. It had also changed the composition of the cement." According to Col. Wilson, the 1962 incident was hushed up by Delta Force, which reportedly threatened Mr. Heffly and his family. (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: The July 1962 incident sounds like a typical "evidence retrieval" by what was then called Operation Moon Dust.) And, if you want to read back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check in at this URL: http:www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts (end) >The film was immediately sent to a special office in the Pentagon >designated OSIP (This changes constantly to avoid detection). >>Of course. >We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the arrival of the craft. >>But forget to ask Colonel Halt not to make an official report of the >>other incidents, which there were witnesses to corroborate. >>Stig, where did this story originate? Oh good grief! >>James. >>E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | pulsar |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Vol. 2, No.24 From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:19:56 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:30:55 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Vol. 2, No.24 Regarding the following excerpt from UFO ROUNDUP Vol 2, Number 24 ... > From: Masinaigan@aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:36:40 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 24 > > [snip ...] > > CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN > OVER SARNIA, ONTARIO > > [snip ...] > > "The object was a long tube-like shape, rounded > at both ends, and fuzzy or diffuse around all edges. > it was suspended vertically and its apparent size was > about one inch or so along its vertical axis and > perhaps 3/8 (of an) inch across its lateral axis." > > "Her attention was then taken by a white spherical > object which seemed to have been discharged from the > original object. This white sphere traveled a short > distance, perhaps three inches apparent distance > northwards toward Lake Huron and vanished." On reading the above description, I was struck by the amazing similarity of the description to tube objects portrayed in a contemporary woodcut by Hans Glaser of the "very frightful spectacle" seen in the skies above Nuremburg, Germany on April 4th 1531. For those of you who have a copy of Peter Brooksmith's book, "UFO, the Complete Sightings", an image of this woodcut appears on page 16. I've also seen it elsewhere, but can't cite sources. The woodcut shows, among other bizarre things, long apparently transparent tubes with spheres, some spheres inside in the tubes, some spheres emerging from the tubes, and some spheres outside. If the Nuremburg and Ontario objects are indeed the same, the responsible source has truly been around for quite awhile, historically speaking. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 UFOSearch #7 : Reprise: Science, Proof And The From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:58:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:24:07 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #7 : Reprise: Science, Proof And The This is the seventh of the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFOUpDates. Several of these essays were posted in the past in the alt.paranet.ufo USENET newsgroup. There are approximately 25 essays in all. I am posting these with the permission of the author, Val Germann. Unfortunately the author is not presently available on the Internet. However, if you would like to correspond with the author I have arranged a temporary internet email address that I will use for forwarding the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com I hope you find these essays interesting and thought provoking. Commentary: Now that you have been thinking about science and the role of science in establishing proof join our essayist as he analyses similar concerns in a different domain, environmental protection. Some interesting parallels are found and analyzed. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprise: Proof, Science & The UFO Val Germann Columbia, Missouri In the article below the paragraphs in quote marks are from a recent sci.environment piece put on by Peter Montague and his RACHEL organization. There are quite interesting similiarities between the use of "science" in the environmental arena and in the world of the UFO. The existence of "proof" is considered vital to critics of the envirnomental movement, just as it is to the skeptics of the UFO phenomenon. My comments appear inside double parentheses (( )). Here we go: " RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #478 ---January 25, 1996--- HEADLINES: SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENT "SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENT "SCIENCE magazine is the journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the mainstream of the mainstream in American science. In recent years, the editors of SCIENCE have been generally hostile to environmental protection. For example, in editorials, they have ridiculed the idea that toxic chemicals might be a serious danger to human and environmental health, saying scientific risk assessment can show chemicals and radiation to be safe.[1] "But in April, 1993, SCIENCE published a short, meaty article about how science fails to help solve environmental problems, and in fact often contributes to making those problems worse.[2] Written by two biologists and a mathematician (two Canadians and an American), the article discusses the failures of science in environmental protection. Here we highlight the main points from that article, and then, inside square brackets, provide our own interpretation and examples. The article is about resource exploitation, but it might apply equally well to all environmental problems, including the use of toxic chemicals. "Today, many plans for sustainable use or sustainable development have been put forward, founded upon scientific information and consensus. (( That is, these ideas have passed muster for the jury of science. See my recent "Science, Proof And The UFO" series.)) "Such plans reflect ignorance of the history of resource exploitation. [By "resource" the authors mean fish, trees, and minerals such as gold and oil.] Such plans also reflect misunderstanding of the possibility of achieving scientific consensus concerning resources and the environment. [In other words, scientific consensus about sustainable levels of resource exploitation is harder to achieve than most people think.] (( Yes, "science" itself, relying on it does on CONTROL of either experiment or observation, falls down, that is, is unable to PREDICT outcomes of experiments or observations or processes, when it is studying systems beyond current human control or understanding. )) "Despite variation in the details, there is remarkable consistency in the history of resource exploitation: resources are inevitably overexploited, often to the point of collapse or extinction. "There are four reasons for this: "Wealth or the prospect of wealth generates political and social power that is used to drive overexploitation. "Scientific understanding and consensus is [sic] hampered by the lack of controls and replicates, so that each new problem requires learning about a new system." [In other words, most natural resources are unique, so finding a similar system to keep in a natural state for comparison purposes, is impossible. Similarly, if some understanding is developed based on a particular system, it is impossible to duplicate elsewhere because no identical system can be found.] (( Once again, "science" depends on REPETITION and CONTROL and where these are missing there is no "scientific consensus. )) "The complexity of the underlying biological and physical systems precludes a reductionist approach to management. Optimum levels of exploitation must be learned by trial and error. [In other words, traditional scientific method doesn't work well when studying natural systems because they are too complicated to simplify and then study, which is the way most science has traditionally worked. Therefore, the only way to proceed is blindly, by trial and error--a costly way of learning.] (( Yes, the methods that worked for Newton and Descartes will not give the correct "answers" here. )) "Large levels of natural variability mask the effects of overexploitation. Initial overexploitation is not detectable until it is severe and often irreversible." [We see this going on in the Chesapeake Bay right now. The blue crab population--a major "resource" of the Bay--fluctuates up and down from year to year. Now the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, an environmental advocacy organization, and the Maryland state government are both saying the crab population has been endangered by too much crabbing. People who want to continue crabbing in the usual way pooh-pooh any concerns about the crab population, saying crabs vary in number year to year and the low population found today is just part of a natural fluctuation. Scientific consensus on this issue has, so far, been impossible to achieve.] (( In like manner, the "UFO" is just not CONSISTENT, does not act in a reasonable way, at least as far as "science" is concerned. Therefore, there is no scientific result to any study. )) "In such circumstances, assigning causes to past events is problematical, future events cannot be predicted, and even well-meaning attempts to exploit responsibly may lead to disastrous consequences." (( Does this sound anything like the "UFO" situation today? )) "It is more appropriate to think of resources as managing humans rather than the converse: the larger and the more immediate are the prospects for gain, the greater the political power that is used to facilitate unlimited exploitation. Examples: gold rushes, exploitation of forests. (( Think about that, the "UFO" managing US; scientists, too! )) "We propose that we shall NEVER attain scientific consensus concerning the systems that are being exploited... [because] controlled and replicated experiments are impossible to perform in large-scale systems. Therefore, there is ample scope for differing interpretations." [Emphasis added.] (( Just substitute "UFO" for "systems that are being exploited" and you have the exact situation vis-a-vis the UFO today. )) "Problems experienced in exploitation of fisheries (California sardine; Peruvian anchoveta [anchovies - GA]; Pacific salmon) are compounded when it comes to predicting phenomena of major concern, such as global warming and other changes in the atmosphere. "Time-scales are so great that observational studies are unlikely to provide timely indications of required actions or the consequences of failing to take remedial measures. (( The "UFO" has been around for at least 100 years, at least. )) "Act before scientific consensus is achieved. WE DO NOT REQUIRE ANY ADDITIONAL SCIENTIFIC STUDIES BEFORE TAKING ACTION TO CURB HUMAN ACTIVITIES THAT EFFECT [SIC] GLOBAL WARMING, OZONE DEPLETION, POLLUTION, AND DEPLETION OF FOSSIL FUELS. Calls for additional research may be mere delaying tactics." [Emphasis added - VG.] (( Ditto in the world of the UFO. The evidence is all in and has been for a long time. The time is long past for action. )) "Rely on scientists to recognize problems, but not to remedy them. The judgment of scientists is often heavily influenced by their training in their respective disciplines, but... the most important issues involving resources and the environment... must involve many disciplines. (( Ditto in the world of the UFO. Scientific specialization is a huge problem when a phenomenon of a global nature is involved. )) "[Furthermore], "scientists and their judgments are subject to political pressure." (( Ditto in the world of the UFO. Squared. )) "Confront uncertainty. Once we free ourselves from the illusion that science or technology (if lavishly funded) can provide a solution to resource or conservation problems, appropriate action becomes possible." [We will never have complete knowledge about the problems we face; if we refuse to act while we wait for that knowledge to accumulate, it will be too late.] (( Ditto in the world of the UFO. Squared. )) "Effective policies are possible under conditions of uncertainty, but they must take uncertainty into account... Most principles of decision making under uncertainty are simply common sense." (( Ditto in the world of the UFO. Common sense has given way to the superstition of reductionist "science." )) "Nine principles for decision-making: "1. Consider a variety of plausible hypotheses about the world; "2. Consider a variety of possible strategies; "3. Favor actions that are robust to uncertainties; "4. Hedge [meaning, avoid irretrievable commitment; assume that what you're about to do might be a mistake]; "5. Favor actions that are informative; "6. Probe and experiment; "7. Monitor results; "8. Update assessments and modify policies accordingly; (( There it is, a blueprint for scientific action, a blueprint that people like James McDonald were no doubt on their way to following. . .except that they suddenly terminated themselves. )) "Relying on science instead of common sense and human values to guide us has led the human species to the precipice. Can we change our ways? Can we put science into proper perspective and look elsewhere for guidance in curbing our excesses?]" (( A very good question. What will the answer for us be? )) --Peter Montague (( Val Germann ))
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:26:01 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' Since Kent's article has been posted to this forum, I thought my response would be of interest. There are many problems with his theories. This is what I think of it: Kent Jeffrey, in his latest article, essentially challenges those of us who believe that something crashed outside of Roswell in July 1947 to prove the case to him. To do so, he suggests that we must deal with seven points that he brought up at the end of his article. He raises other questions in his article which are easily challenged, and he accuses us of selective reporting of the data. Let's take a quick look at some of that, and then answer his seven points one at a time. Please remember that I do not have endless space in which to address his comments and therefore have selected some of them for response but not others. Kent writes, about the men of the 509th Bomb Group, "Most of them heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started. The few men who did recall hearing about the incident at the time of its occurrence said that the inside word was that the debris was from a downed balloon of some kind and that there was no more than 'one wheelbarrow full'." Overlooking the fact that highly classified events would not be discussed among the officers because they were, by definition, highly classified, let's look at a statement by Colonel (later brigadier general) Thomas DuBose. According to him, and recorded on video tape (August 10, 1990), "He (Major General Clements McMullen, deputy commander of SAC) called me and said... Nobody, and I must stress this, no one was to discuss this with their wives, me with Ramey, with anyone. The matter, as far as we're concerned, it was closed." What we have here is evidence of orders, coming from the headquarters of the Strategic Air Command that the officers of the Eighth Air Force and the 509th Bomb Group were not to discuss this matter amongst themselves. Those who were not involved would not be told about it because of the high classification. And those former members of the 509th who believe that had something like this happened they would have heard about it must rethink their theory. Many military units have secrets that are shared only with those who have a need to know. To suggest a sharing of classified material with those who are not cleared to hear it reveals a misunderstanding of how this works. And, remember, DuBose acknowledged that an order had been given. Kent also uses the testimony that was published by William L. Moore in The Roswell Incident and later by Moore and Jaime Shandera in their articles about the debris taken to Brigadier General Roger Ramey's office. I have suggested all along that the debris photographed was not the real stuff. Kent, however, writes, "Among Marcel's responses were 'They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris... The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo." Kent does not report the rest of the quote which tends to refute his contention that the debris on the floor was never switched. Marcel supposedly also said, "Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own. They then allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was on its way to Wright Field. I was not in those." If that wasn't enough, when we check the record, we find hat Moore and Shandera have published three versions of the original quote, each altered to fit the circumstances as they were developing during various investigations. Moore provided a transcript of the February 1979 interview with Marcel that now said, "General (Roger Maxwell) Ramey allowed the press in to take two pictures of this stuff. I was in one, and he and Col. DuBose were in the other. [Emphasis added to show the difference in the quote.]" In their article "Three Hours That Shook the Press," Focus, new series Vol. 5, nos. 7-9, September 30, 1990, Shandera and Moore write, "In his interview with Moore (The Roswell Incident) Maj. Marcel maintained that the debris in the two photos of him is the real stuff [Emphasis added]." So we see that the quotes by Moore and Shandera referring to the number of pictures taken in General Ramey's office, who was in those pictures, and the situation around them, can't be trusted. In fact, Marcel himself has been quoted by a disinterested third party. Reporter Johnny Mann accompanied Marcel to Roswell in 1980 to interview him about the UFO crash. Mann found the picture of Marcel posed by the weather balloon and told him, "Jess, I gotta tell you. This looks like a weather balloon." According to Mann, Marcel said, "That's not the stuff I found on the ranch." In other words, the only ones to report that Marcel was photographed with the "real" debris was Moore and Shandera. All evidence to the contrary was apparently overlooked by Kent as he attempted to prove that what was on the floor in Ramey's office was the material found out on the Foster ranch. Kent also wrote, "Rancher Mac Brazel is quoted as talking about sticks, foil, and tape with flower patterns." But Kent doesn't quote the last, and possibly most important part of the July 9, 1947 story. Speaking of the balloon explanation, the newspaper reported, "Brazel said, that he had previously found weather observation balloons on two other occasions... but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these." But, if what was found was a Project Mogul balloon as alleged, or just any sort of balloon as Kent suggests, then it would have been exactly like those. That is what we are talking about when we talk of Mogul Flight #4. It was a cluster of regular weather balloons and contained nothing to fool Brazel, Marcel, or anyone else. But, with space running out, let's look at Kent's seven points that must be addressed according to Kent himself. He wrote, "A machine with unimaginable technological sophistication and consequent incredible reliability would have simply broken down and crashed." Even if the "perfect" machine could be built, there are always the human factors (in this case alien factor unless you want to believe them infallible too), and the environmental factors in this extremely weak argument. In today's world, aircraft are designed to withstand strikes by lightning. However, according to a recent PrimeTime Live on ABC, l ightning was a contributing factor in the recent destruction of a commercial jet. Yes, the mean time to failure has improved. Yes, our computers, electronics, and machinery all operate much longer, but they do still break. And when they don't break on their own, there is always someone there to make a mistake causing them to break. In other words, this argument is without foundation. Kent next wrote, "The only known wreckage from this sophisticated vehicle, capable of interstellar travel, would have consisted solely of a few short beams, pieces of foil-like material, and small pieces of thin plastic-like material." Yes, that is basically the debris as described by those who were on the Foster ranch. I would add the fiber optics described by Bill Brazel, Jr., but that doesn't alter Kent's point. There is not the range of debris you would expect from a crashing craft. Of course, that doesn't cover the craft and bodies found elsewhere. Kent was quick to tell me, angrily, that there was no craft and there were no bodies and therefore his point remains valid. He rejects, out of hand, all reference to the craft and bodies, weakening his argument considerably. You can't reject testimony simply because you don't like it. If you can offer a reasonable motive for that rejection, then you can proceed with your case. If you reject it because it is inconvenient, then your point is not valid. Kent has ignored the statements by Major (later full colonel) Edwin Easley, Major (later full colonel) Patrick Saunders, Brigadier General Arthur Exon, Dr. W. Curry Holden, reporter Johnny McBoyle and many others. Each spoke of the second crash site in first-hand terms. Kent's next point is "Despite the fact that this would have been the most spectacular event in recorded history, and despite the fact that word was already out that something had happened (because of Lt. Haut's press release), there was absolutely no contemporary discussion or talk about such an earthshaking event among the pilots and navigators of the close-knit 509th Bomb Group." This is absolutely ridiculous when it is remembered that these were trained officers who were schooled in keeping their mouths shut and when it is remembered, according to General DuBose, orders had been issued. When the 509th was formed, with the purpose of dropping the atomic bombs, the men were brought to the base and told that they would be involved in a special assignment. They were told to tell no one of this. As a security check, they were allowed to glimpse "special" equipment, or "special" orders. They all were given a leave before having to report back for training. Herculean efforts were made to track each of these men, engage them in conversation, and to see just how much they would talk about their "special" assignments, or the "special" equipment they saw. Each who mentioned anything was dismissed from the unit and returned to his original assignment. The point is, these men knew that you didn't talk out of school to anyone who did not have "A NEED TO KNOW." Kent then wrote, "West Point graduate and retired general Thomas DuBose, would have had lied nine times in an interview when he stated that the debris (definitely that from an ML-307 radar reflector) shown in the pictures in Ramey's office was not substituted material and was "real debris" recovered from the ranch northwest of Roswell." This is one of the weakest arguments that Kent has made. First, he accepts, as completely accurate, Shandera's interview with DuBose, but according to DuBose and his wife, Shandera took neither notes nor made a tape recording. In other words, we are treated to Shandera's version of the events with no corroboration. But, when DuBose was asked if he had seen the Roswell debris, he said, "Never." After the publication of Shandera's interview, he was asked again if he had ever seen the real debris and in a letter, he wrote, "NO!" Billy Cox, a disinterested third party and a writer for Florida Today, interviewed DuBose for an article he wrote for the November 24, 1991 edition of that newspaper. Cox reported that DuBose told him essentially the same story as outlined in UFO Crash at Roswell. In a letter dated September 30, 1991, Cox wrote, "I was aware of the recent controversy generated by an interview he (DuBose) had with Jamie Shandera, during which he stated that the display debris at Fort Worth was genuine UFO wreckage and not a weather balloon, as he had previously stated. But I chose not to complicate matters by asking him to illuminate what he had told Shandera; instead, I simply asked him, without pressure, to recall events as he remembered them... he seemed especially adamant about his role in the Roswell case. While he stated that he didn't think the debris was extraterrestrial in nature (though he had no facts to support his opinion), he was insistent that the material that Ramey displayed for the press was in fact a weather balloon, and that he had personally transferred the real stuff in a lead-lined mail pouch to a courier going to Washington... I can only conclude that the Shandera interview was the end result of the confusion that might occur when someone attempts to press a narrow point of view upon a 90 year old man. I had no ambiguity in my mind that Mr. DuBose was telling me the truth." What we see here is that DuBose didn't lie nine times. We have a disagreement between what Shandera reported about what DuBose said, and the video tape and reporters notes of what DuBose actually said. The problem is not Dubose but Shandera. Next Kent wrote, "Major General C.P. Cabell, Director of Intelligence for the Air Force at the Pentagon, who prepared a report on the unidentified flying object situation for the Secretary of Defense, astoundingly, would have been preparing the report totally ignorant of the fact that the Air Force was in possession of a crashed flying saucer." Actually that is not exactly true. Can we find any instances in which military officers wrote to civilian representatives of the government and lied? Yes. Senator Jeff Bingaman asked the Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison about Project Moon Dust. Lieutenant Colonel John E. Madison wrote, "In addition there is no Project Moon Dust or Operation Blue Fly. Those missions have never existed." This is not an accurate statement. More importantly, when Madison's statements were challenged, Colonel George M. Mattingley, Jr. wrote that Moon Dust had existed, but it was never used. Mattingley had to know that Moon Dust had been deployed. He gave Bingaman a history of Moon Dust. Therefore, Mattingley knowing lied to a United States Senator, as did Madison. This is not exactly the same situation as described by Kent but it does establish a precedence. Yes, military officers have knowingly lied to the civilian governmental representatives when they believed national security was at stake. Finally Kent wrote, "Three retired Air Force colonels, all former top officials at the Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base would have been lying to me -- unnecessarily wasting inordinate amounts of their own personal time in a protracted game of charades." Again, this argument is weak on the face of it. If we look at history we find many examples of military officers serving in critical positions but not in possession of complete information. During the Second World War we had broken a number of the Japanese codes and were reading intercepted messages under the code name Magic. Very few knew about it. I believe that MacArthur's staff in the Southwest Pacific contained two people who were "Magic" qualified, MacArthur and MacArthur's chief of intelligence. To suggest that Magic didn't exist because other, high-ranking members of MacArthur's staff had said they heard nothing about it is ridiculous. If you interview those men, would they be lying if they said Magic didn't exist, because, to them, it didn't. Finished with that, Kent asked, "What basis is there now for postulating the existence of a crashed UFO?" Simple. The testimony of Edwin Easley, himself a retired colonel who told me the craft was extraterrestrial. The testimony of Patrick Saunders, himself a retired colonel who wrote on the flyleaf to The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell that "Here's the truth and I still haven't told anybody anything!" which he then signed. And the testimony of Arthur Exon, himself a retired brigadier general, who talked of two distinct sites, and who talked of the people at Wright-Patterson who had examined the debris and bodies of the alien creatures. My two colonels and one brigadier general trump Kent's three colonels. The question that can be asked here, in sort of a everse on what Kent has written is "Why would these men create this story if it was not true?" They did not seek the spotlight as so many others have. They did not expect a monetary reward for their information. In fact, they gained nothing by suggesting there was anything true to the story of the crashed saucer. Would they spend their time lying to me? Exon and I even ate lunch in the Wright-Patterson officers' club. I had hoped, in reading Kent's article, I would find something that was persuasive. I had hoped that there would be a revelation that would suggest a good reason for Kent to so radically alter his position. That I didn't find. Kent has written that the case is closed. To his mind, he has solved it with interviews he conducted and his analysis of the situation. But such isn't the case because he dismissed too much of the testimony that doesn't fit with his view. As I said, you can't reject inconvenient testimony until you provide a proper framework for that rejection. He has failed to do so and therefore his reasons for rejecting the Roswell UFO crash are less than persuasive. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> [David Furlotte Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:52:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >From: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Historical: Facts or Fiction? >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:58:59 +1000 (EST > > A lot of the elements of argument about Roswell go > > into typical "He said, She said and They said" > > scenarios. >If you remove the "He said, She said" components of the Roswell story, >what's left? ONLY the hard cold FACTS!! > > Now, with ALL of this being said, how about we > > examine the irrefutable evidence of Roswell. > > FACT: In or around July 1 through 8, 1947 > > SOMETHING crashed near, >Brazel himself said he found the material three weeks before coming >into town, around June 14. (There is some dispute about this, but >even Major Marcel related the same timeframe in wire stories published >on July 9, 1947.) Sorry, John, we're back to "HE said" again. I've heard and read different reports on who said WHEN and WHERE they found materials related to Roswell, that's why I attempted to cover a TIMEFRAME as opposed to a HARD Date. > > or on Mac Brazel's ranch and was subsequently recovered > > by men and officers of the 509th Air Bombardment group > > located at Roswell U.S.A.A.F. Base. >It might have been recovered by just one man and one officer. Bessie >Schrieber described gathering up three sacks of the material with her >father and we don't know how much (if anything) was left to be picked >up later. and it MIGHT have been recovered by Donald Duck and Mighty Mouse, however the FACT remains that men and officers from the 509th were out and around the site of the crash of WHATEVER it was. > > FACT: A story was written and released that > > reportedly was under the authority of the > > intelligence office Once again, this particular fact comes direct from the newsprint story as printed. ALL it stated was "under the authority of the intelligence office". There was NO name or rank associated with WHO reported it. > > FACT: A story and press interview was conducted > > under Col. Blanchard's authority that REFUTED >This took place in General Ramey's office at Ft. Worth. My apologies, I may have this fact confused and will change it slightly. FACT: A story and press interview was conducted under HIGHER Military authority that REFUTED the claim of Capture of a Flying Saucer. > > the "Flying Saucer" story and that showed Maj. > > Jesse Marcel posing with the remains of a > > Weather Balloon which was supposedly recovered > > at the controversial "crash site". SINCE that time, > > the Air Force has changed the OFFICIAL story so > > that the "remains" were obviously FAKED from > > the beginning! >The story is actually quite consistent. Marcel recovered the debris, >and it was flown into Ft. Worth. General Ramey's chief of staff, >Colonel DuBose, stated repeatedly that the debris was never switched. >This same debris was later examined by Warrant Officer Irving Newton >who identified it as being part of a weather balloon and radar >reflector. >The Air Force's story really hasn't changed since 1947. They said the >debris was from a "weather balloon" and the Project Mogul train was >comprised of mainly weather balloon components. A little white lie, >perhaps, or a sin of omission, but if the debris was never switched >and it was later confirmed to be a weather balloon, then Major Marcel >simply made a mistake in his original assessment of the material. Well, now, that's rather interesting. We have "Weather Balloon, Mogul Balloon and of course now the INFAMOUS Fugo Balloon." Bottom line, a balloon is a balloon is a balloon and never a flying saucer shall it be......<grin>....and correct me if I AM wrong here, but I do believe the Air Force has released varying stories and reports stating "Weather Balloon" in one...and "Mogul Balloon" in another.....and the latest, the "Fugo Balloon" > > FACT: People in and around Roswell, New > > Mexico have stated that the Air Force is lying and > > that there is a "cover-up" going on about what > > really occurred at the crash site in 1947. >If you check out Kent Jeffrey's new article on his Roswell >investigations at www.roswell.org/ you'll find that he interviewed 17 >pilots and navigators who were stationed at Roswell Army Air Field in >July of 1947. All of the bomber pilots had TOP SECRET clearances and >were a tightly-knit group. They all told Kent that nothing unusual >happened at RAAF on July 8, 1947, except for a little excitement >caused by that news release. >There's also the affidavit signed by Jim McKnight whose family owned >the land where the "main" crash allegedly occurred. According to >McKnight, nothing special happened on their property in 1947. No >giant road trains of military vehicles tearing up the sand and leaving >deep impressions, no massive cordons of troops, no light planes flying >overhead mapping the crash site from the air, etc. Nothing to attract >his family's attention or reveal any major activity at all. A clear case of "He said, she said" and in evidence I enclose the FOLLOWING PARTIAL list: THE CIVILIANS 2.1 Loretta Proctor 2.2 Marian Strickland 2.3 Bessie Brazel Schreiber 2.4 William Brazel Jr 2.5 Glenn Dennis 3 THE COPS 3.1 Barbara Dugger 4 THE PRESS 4.1 Frank Joyce 4.2 Lydia Sleppy 4.3 Walt Whitmore Jr 5 THE MILITARY 5.1 Jesse Marcel 5.2 Jesse Marcel Jr 5.3 Walter Haut 5.4 Bill Rickett 5.5 F.B. 5.6 Robert Porter 5.7 Robert Shirkey 5.8 Robert Slusher 5.9 Robert Smith 5.10 Melvin Brown's Daughter 5.11 Pappy Henderson 5.12 Pappy Henderson's Wife 5.13 Pappy Henderson's Daughter 5.14 Pappy Henderson's Relatives 5.15 Pappy Henderson's Friend #1 5.16 Pappy Henderson's Friend #2 taken from ROSWELL Testimony at http://www.schmitzware.com/IUFOG/iufog-gov.html > > FACT: People in and around Roswell, New > > Mexico have been maintaining the previous fact > > for almost 50 years as of this writing. >See above. DITTO, See ABOVE......<grin>.... > > FIVE Facts. Five irrefutable facts. >I "think" I just refuted them, but I'm happy to discuss this further >with you. John, I may give you ONE point on ONE of the FACTS, but with a minor change in wording the FACT remains.....and again I say FIVE irrefutable facts. > > 1. WHY did something crash in the desert of New > > Mexico in July of 1947? > > SOME outside influence has to cause something to > > crash! >According to Marcel, no gouges, no marks. No evidence that anything >actually _crashed_. > > A body that is in motion will remain in > > motion until acted upon by some outside force. >And a balloon train will remain aloft until those balloons start to >burst. Then it gently descends to the ground where it's torn apart >and scattered by the winds. BALLOONS torn apart and scattered by WINDS? Sorry, but you'll have a hard time proving that one to me....<grin>.....unless there was some mysterious HURRICANE that swept through Roswell during this crash and even THEN most rubber tends to stay together rather then come apart. > > 2. WHY did the "intelligence office" of RAAF base > > authorize the release of a story about capturing a > > flying saucer? Additionally, WHY release a story > > that they had no concrete proof as being real? >THE most important question of all. For this it'll be helpful if we >actually venture into the Roswell Forest. Occam's chainsaw at the >ready? Right, start 'er up and let's start chopping... >Look over there, see that clearing? Let's head for it.... >See all these tree stumps? Know what happened here about 51 years >ago? Some forestry workers came in and chopped down a whole slew of >trees. They were sent off to the pulp mills where they were turned >into newsprint so that the Roswell _Daily-Record_ could publish the >July 8, 1947, issue with the headline: > RAAF Captures Flying Saucer > On Ranch in Roswell Region >While this made for a dramatic headline, it was hopelessly inaccurate. >Nobody "captured" anything. The "saucer" was just lying there in lots >of little pieces, and it was not the first (or last) story about >captured discs or saucers to be published that July. I've covered >this in a subsequent message which, mea culpa, was also somewhat >lengthy, but if you read through the newspapers of the time you'll >note "saucers" and "discs" were generic terms to denote all manner of >unknown aerial phenomena. Things didn't even have to look disc-like >to be called "discs." >Newspapers, including those in Roswell, carried many "saucer" stories >after the June 24th Arnold sightings. They also reported on the many >"disc" retrievals that the Air Force was involved with. A large story >appeared in the July 8 Roswell _Morning Dispatch_ detailing the >finding of two discs in Texas, and another one in Spokane, Washington. >(A former scoutmaster admitted to hoaxing the Spokane disc, but the >_Houston Chronicle_ knew better: "...there are some mysterious facts >contained in his (the scoutmaster's) first report that lend credence >to the tale." But of course...) >This confusion highlights the fact that (can you guess what I'm going >to say next?) "nobody knew what discs/saucers were." In another >message I alluded to an August, 1947 Gallop Poll in which 90% of >interviewees indicated they had heard of "Flying Saucers," but the >overwhelming majority responded with entirely prosaic suggestions as >to the origins of the saucers: secret weapons, mirages, etc. Flying >saucers and discs were generic descriptions of "sky phantoms", or >"whatzniks," or "whatzits." Nobody knew what they were so it was fun >to call them different names and speculate where they might have come >from. And in that atmosphere of excitement and speculation, if you >found something you couldn't immediately recognise, calling it a >"disc" might not have seemed far-fetched at all. >Announcing the "capture" of a "Flying Saucer" in 1947 made for a great >headline, but it didn't even begin to address the question: "What >exactly is a 'Flying Saucer' anyway?" > > Based upon the fact that the 509th bombardment > > group was the ONLY atomic air base in the world it > > is highly doubtful that they were looking for "Press > > Attention". >It's a good point. About the only thing I can suggest is that nobody >within the Air Force thought there'd be such a reaction to the >announcement. WOW, that was quite the response to my little question. Thank you for that. However, there are two VERY important little pieces that you've NOT addressed. ONE, the story wasn't just written up as a piece of "fiction" it was reportedly AUTHORIZED by the Intelligence Office of the world's ONLY Atomic Air Force Base. SECONDLY, nobody within the Air Force thought there would be such a reaction to the announcement? ROTFL.....Sorry, Kent, but REALLY!.......So, they just decided to release the story and had NO idea of the potential repercussions? I'm glad I don't live in the U.S. with such NAIVE "Intelligence" officers working for the Military. > > It is well known that intelligence officers > > have very little sense of humour, >Major Marcel did try to convince Newton that the rawin target he >had in his hands contained "alien" writing. Some might have found >that to be humorous. > > Press officers and Intelligence officers NEVER need to > > verify anything before they release information, >It's hard to accept in these post-Watergate times, but maybe it was >all so simple back in '47: Marcel didn't know what the debris was, >"maybe a disc?" Blanchard trusted his Intelligence Officer so he >called "Higher Headquarters" about it. They told him, "Send it over." >When Blanchard asked, "Can I tell the press?" they might have >replied, "Okay, but keep the details to yourself." A press release >was issued and... I'm sorry, but once AGAIN, "Okay, tell the press, but keep the details to yourself?" Are you familiar with the TIMEFRAME we're talking about? The world has been out of a World WAR for less then TWO years when news stories and anything released by the military to the PRESS had to be "Sanitized" for fear of letting the "enemy" know what was going on. Will you have us believe that after Japan's Surrender in 1945 that the Military Intelligence community just DROPPED all that need for secrecy? >Much the same happened with the Spokane disk discovery the day before. >General Vandenberg told a Colonel Warren: "The line of approach is >that we have nothing like that, we don't understand what it is, but we >are leaving no stone unturned to be sure." If the Army Air Force was >playing its cards close to its chest, Vandenberg should have told >Warren to say, "No comment, keep the press out of it." But, you know, >those were the good old days... > > 3. WHY conduct a press interview and present > > physical evidence of a mistake? >The release had been issued before the debris had been identified. > > And with the ever-changing "official" line of what really crashed, >The initial release stated that a "disc" had come into the hands of >the RAAF through the co-operation of a local rancher. As already >noted, there was nothing "disc-like" about the material at all. It >was only a guess on Major Marcel's part that the debris might have >come from a "disc." No, I refer you to the official headline and it stated, "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region." No mention of the word "disc" anywhere in the story......<grin>.... OH, and you state they released this BEFORE they identified the material......thereby re-inforcing my theory that Air Force Press and Intelligence personnel are NOT required to CONFIRM anything before they release information?..... > > why conduct this interview with FAKED evidence? >According to DuBose, the evidence wasn't "faked" at all. The "disc" >debris was brought to Ft. Worth where it was identified as being >parts of a weather balloon and radar reflector. > > The Air Force really enjoys showing the world when > > they screw up, therefore, call everyone in and bring > > the widest possible attention to their mistake. I think > > NOT! >They had no choice. The release had been issued and the media wanted >to know more. Too late to say "Oops! Go away..." > > If the evidence shown was FAKE, then WHERE is the REAL > > evidence and why not show us that NOW? >There's no evidence that any of the material was "faked." DuBose >maintained the material was not switched. Newton identified it as >being balloon debris. There was just the one type of unidentified >evidence that was later identified as being the you-know-what. >Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to the source, but in "The Roswell >Incident," Major Marcel is quoted as saying that he had been >photographed with some of the _actual_ debris. If you examine the >debris pictures taken in General Ramey's office, they all show the >same material, regardless of whether it's being held by Marcel, >DuBose, or Irving Newton. Well, since we're getting reports of Weather Balloons, Mogul Balloons, Fugo Balloons, etc. SOMETHING has to be faked somewhere. WHICH story is the real one. There's also the theories of failed V-2 launches...etc...etc.... I'd LOVE to see the U.S. Air Force simply take a stand. Believe me, I'm not the one coming up with these confusing reports, just presenting from materials REPUTEDLY to be OFFICIAL....... > > 4. WHY did all those people decide to risk ridicule > > and potential government and air force intervention > > in their lives by saying that the whole thing was a > > cover-up and that the Air Force was lying? >Not "all" those people did. It's just a given that when you're >trying to provide evidence for the proposition that a spaceship >crashed in Roswell in 1947, you're not going to clutter up precious >pages with stories from people who say that nothing happened. (Not >for any dishonest reasons, I should add. It's simply a matter of >managing one's limited resources.) > > For fame and monetary gain? All those people are > > now well known by everyone in the world and they > > are all living as multi-millionaires from their stories! >Is money the only reason people tell stories? Why would Glenn Dennis, >for instance, say he wanted to marry his beloved Nurse "X" only to >later state she was a nun with no interest in men? Why would Gerald >Anderson lie about the length of a phone call with Kevin Randle and >then fabricate a phone bill to "prove" his story was true? Where's >the "money" in doing something ridiculous like that? Yet he did it. >Why? > > Anyone out there familiar with the term NFL? >National Football League? > > As in NOT F---ing LIKELY! >Oh. ;-) John, once again, of course NOT everyone who lives in and around Roswell are saying these things. Like anything, if you have a car accident, people who were "on the scene" will have seen NOTHING and as such have nothing to say. I refer you to the list above as to WHO has been saying things. But more importantly WHY are they saying these things? >Sadly, as noted above, it does happen, and it happens often enough to >make the matter of gauging eyewitness reliability an ongoing issue. > > 5. WHY have those people and their family > > members kept this story alive for almost 50 years? >The ones who claim that nothing happened, or the ones who claim >something did happen? Either way, I suspect the answer is they were >asked about it by reporters and researchers. > > Because they've got nothing to better to do with > > their time and they love being hounded to death by > > UFO researchers, questioned endlessly and > > having people call them liars whenever they tell > > their story. >Some people enjoy a nice chat, especially in their latter years, and >you'll find that very few Roswell "witnesses" are ever called liars. > > I firmly understand the need to get as many > > DETAILS confirmed as much as the next person, > > however, let's NOT lose sight of the forest. >In a forest the trees are the "details." Remove all the details >and your forest becomes an empty field. >Same with Roswell. We _need_ those details. Who, why, where, and >given the short timeframe in which the events occurred, _when_. >Things become problematic when you string all the current "details" >together: lots of enormous gaps. This leads to the necessity of >"filling in" those gaps. Depending on how this is done, the landscape >can be altered entirely. > > It's time to let the "Official" arms of the incident at > > Roswell try to answer the HARD questions and convince us > > of the reasons WHY these questions are there. >The "official" arms believe they've already answered the hard >questions: Unknown debris, later identified as being from a weather >balloon. Ever the party-poopers, the Air Force reinforced this answer >in 1994 by telling us that the weather balloon was a component of the >TOP SECRET Project Mogul. >Clearly this answer isn't to everybody's satisfaction, and there's no >harm done if we keep on looking. I intend to. > > (Just my two cents again, from a voice in the > > wilderness....) >We need to be discussing these things and I'm grateful you went to the >trouble to post your thoughts. >Thanks David. >Best, > John John, now saying that some of the more skeptical folks are not calling some of the people around Roswell liars means that you have to buy into that Psychobabble that says, "Oh YES, I do believe you when you tell me that you SAW something and that YOU believe you saw something strange and unusual." Bottom line, still the same thing, "Sure, bud, I BELIEVE ya, REALLY!"......laughing.... As for people enjoying a little "Jaw time" in their later years and a little notoriety? True, but I honestly think that might be interpreted as being a tad patronizing. I enjoyed your response and invite further comment either public or private. Now, just because ONE reader of the list was slightly confused by MY original Post. I'd like to state here and now, that I'm NEITHER Skeptic nor True Believer. I personally think that SOMETHING crashed in a New Mexico Desert in 1947 and that the U.S. Government did us ALL an injustice by officially announcing ONE thing and changing their story the next day. I firmly HOPE that one day we shall find out DEFINITIVELY the truth about Roswell and I'd ALSO like to believe that it WAS a craft from beyond Earth. Dave (Furry)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:58:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:57:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 At 02:44 PM 06/16/97 -0400, Bob Shell wrote: >Date: 16 Jun 97 14:03:55 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ... >Time to talk to a statistician, Kent. Which gives rise to the old and true saw: Lies, damned lies and statistics. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:21:12 -0400 Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit >LONDON -- Investigators are baffled by an apparent near-collision >between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object over >England. >The BAe 146, bound for Stansted in eastern England from Dublin, took >evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red >aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them north of >London. >The jet passed 30 metres above the object two seconds later. >The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested >that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a >Hawk jet from the Royal Air Force's Red Arrows aerobatics team. >But searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts failed to find >another aircraft in the area. >Britain's Civil Aviation Authority group was set up to examine the >incident, which happened last June. >It said yesterday there was no doubt the pilots ``saw something and >agreed in some detail in their descriptions.'' It would say that it's highly likely that what these pilot's almost collided with was the NASA LoFlyte plane. The Belgium government recently stated that this plane may have been the culprit for the triangle sightings in Belgium in 1990. Personally I think this is unlikely due to the fact the LoFlyte plane does not match the witness descriptions of the Belgian triangles at all however, the LoFlyte plane seen here: http://www.finart.be/UfocomHq/english/loflyt.html matches the pilot's descriptions from this article almost exactly. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:16:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:59:29 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! At 02:46 PM 06/16/97 -0400, Ed Komarek wrote: >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE >By Ed Komarek >6/16/97 >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >So how do we stop Jeffery? I can think off hand of three ways. One is to >get a court order I wonder if the CSETI people might be able to help here. > Another is air this whole controversy in the mainstream press before >Jeffery delivers the petitions. And last have pro Roswell people at the >petition site. I have to assume for tactical reasons that he is going to >deliver the petitions personally. Ed, you have now confirmed to me personally that you are completely out of your mind. Getting a "court order" to "stop Jeffery" (sic) is not only irrationa l, it exposes your wacky I_UFO Boylan-ish mentality. Kent Jeffrey has written a very succint article that will prove to be a very bitter pill for the Roswell die-hards to digest. I have noted that whenever anyone seems to diverge from your belief of _what is_ they are immediately pounced on and labeled as a "spook" and a "debunker". You seriously need a reality check if you believe that Greer's CSETI "people" have any credibility whatsoever. I don't know who has the bigger portion of meglomania, you or Greer. Both of you need to get a grip before you do even more harm to UFOlogy than your delusional rants already have accomplished. Christ on a pogo stick! Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 TIME: 'Roswell or Bust' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:23:41 -0400 Subject: TIME: 'Roswell or Bust' JUNE 23, 1997 VOL. 149 NO. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SOCIETY ROSWELL OR BUST A TOWN DISCOVERS MANNA CRASHING FROM HEAVEN AND BECOMES THE CAPITAL OF AMERICA'S ALIEN NATION BY BRUCE HANDY/ROSWELL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The city of Roswell, N.M. (pop. 49,000), is the birthplace of Demi Moore. It is also home to the nation's largest mozzarella plant. On warm spring nights, visitors deplaning onto the tarmac at the local airport may be struck, in a not necessarily unpleasant way, by the rich, manurelike odor rolling in from the surrounding ranchlands. But none of these things is what Roswell is most famous for. A half-century has passed, and Roswell's citizens are still struggling to come to grips with the strange events that put the city on the national map and made its name a national buzz word connoting both otherworldliness and governmental perfidy. "Some people come up to me and say, 'Gosh, I don't like this. I don't want to be known as the kook capital,'" says Bill Pope, interim CEO of the Roswell Chamber of Commerce, speaking with the easygoing charm and booster's earnestness one expects in a Southwestern city father. He is referring to next month's three-day gala marking the golden anniversary of the alleged crash in 1947 of a flying saucer near Roswell. It is a civic distinction that was long ignored by most Roswellians--Moore, for one, says she never heard of it while growing up--until a recent surge of national interest in extraterrestrial phenomena, both "real" and fictive, convinced locals that rather than be ashamed of their heritage, they might instead make some money from UFO-related tourism. Pope puts it this way: "I've been in a lot of communities in my lifetime. I was near a community in Oklahoma one time that had the champion cow-chip-throwing contest. And there's a little community not far from us over here that has lizard races. What it all comes down to is having something to create an interest in your community. And we have something to create interest, and that creates an inflow of people, and that creates dollars, and that's what we're all about." He hands a visitor a lapel pin emblazoned with the legend ROSWELL 1947 and the image of a smiling spaceman waving from a flaming UFO shaped like a Stetson hat--a unique spin on an event that, if it actually occurred, was surely one of the most momentous in history; no one would argue that it doesn't trump lizard races. And so the town is gearing up, not entirely wholeheartedly, for what it is calling Roswell UFO Encounter '97, a celebration that will include a flying-saucer Soap Box Derby, films, symposiums (speakers include Erich von Daniken, author of Chariots of the Gods?) and what an organizer describes as "a UFO belly dancer." Crowds of upwards of 100,000 are hoped for. Outside city limits, the name Roswell speaks to less tangible concerns. Like the black helicopters of the new world order or the racist-police conspiracy to frame O.J. Simpson, the Incident, as it is known, is either pretty sensational stuff or yet another of the ingenious tales those of us who mistrust mainstream institutions tell ourselves to help make sense of a scary, sometimes depressing world. In this case, it is a tale that combines deeply American strains of spirituality and paranoia as well as--let us be frank--a large scoop of native wackiness. One could even say, if one were inclined to put yet another spin on the following cliche, that we have met the aliens and they are us. In fact, to judge from the way they are most often depicted, aliens have sprung from the same corner of the national psyche that has a thing for Walter Keane's paintings of grotesquely doe-eyed children. Unless, of course, aliens actually look like that. Everyone agrees that something crashed in the desert outside Roswell in mid-June or early July 1947. On July 8, the Roswell Army Air Field issued a press release saying it had recovered the wreckage of a "flying disk," sparking incredulous news stories around the world. A few hours later, a general at the regional Army Air Force command in Fort Worth, Texas, where the debris had been sent for further analysis, announced that what had really been recovered was a weather balloon. This is the indisputable core of the Roswell Incident. Whether one chooses to believe that the government has been covering up an affair involving extraterrestrials is, of course, a more subjective matter. But because Roswell represents the only time the U.S. military has gone on record saying that flying saucers exist, it has become a cornerstone of belief for the UFO community. They are, by the way, quite a diverse and fractious group of folks--studies say they tend to be better educated than the norm--whose numbers include casual believers; so-called UFOlogists, most of whom are pretty earnest in their efforts to document UFO sightings with something approaching objective rigor; contactees, who believe they have had telepathic communication with aliens; abductees, who believe they have been subjected to experimentation by E.T.s; and cultists like the Heaven's Gaters, who are an enormous source of embarrassment to their comparatively sober-minded confreres. But despite their many differences, for nearly all of them Roswell is central, a way into the darkness. Peculiar theories ripple out from Roswell. So do further-ranging cultural tides. According to a TIME/Yankelovich poll, 34% of Americans believe intelligent beings from other planets have visited Earth; of those, 65% believe a UFO crash-landed near Roswell, and 80% believe the U.S. government knows more about extraterrestrials than it chooses to let on. But those numbers don't quite capture Roswell's current hot-button status. "Five years ago, if you made an offhand reference to Roswell, nobody would know what you meant. Now everybody does." So says Kevin Randle, a UFOlogist who, as co-author of the seminal UFO Crash at Roswell and its follow-up, The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, is one of the Incident's heartiest champions. His efforts achieved a not entirely positive validation on Dec. 1, 1995, when President Bill Clinton, on a state visit to Ireland, said the following during a speech in Belfast: "I got a letter from 13-year-old Ryan from Belfast. Now, Ryan, if you're out in the crowd tonight, here's the answer to your question. No, as far as I know, an alien spacecraft did not crash in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. [Pause for laughter, according to an official transcript.] And, Ryan, if the United States Air Force did recover alien bodies, they didn't tell me about it either, and I want to know. [Applause.]" UFOlogists will tell you bitterly about the way Jimmy Carter, while running for the presidency, admitted he had seen a UFO, but then, once in office, reneged on promises to open the government's flying-saucer files. A lost opportunity. But on the cultural radar, presidential recognition barely registers next to playing a pivotal role in a popcorn movie. In last year's Independence Day, the seventh highest grossing film of all time, Bill Pullman's President Whitmore also assures an audience the government has nothing up its sleeve concerning UFOs and Roswell, only to be told by his Secretary of Defense, "That's not entirely accurate." Well, sure--otherwise the movie would be finished halfway through. Fortunately, the embattled Earthlings are able to use the recovered Roswell saucer against the invaders and triumph. Talk about vindication. Roswell's pop-cultural apotheosis has been as an inescapable reference on Fox Television's The X-Files, a paranormal Dragnet that details the efforts of two wooden, underacted FBI agents to expose what has metastasized over the show's four seasons into an increasingly baroque conspiracy between the Federal Government and sinister extraterrestrials--a fiction whose particulars have been cherry-picked from among the wilder theories flitting through the UFO community. Its perspective is offered by John Price, founder of Roswell's UFO Enigma Museum, which began in 1988 in the back of his video store and today sprawls through four big rooms and features a homemade diorama of a crashed saucer with blinking lights, surrounded by four dead-alien dolls and a stuffed, seemingly unconcerned jackrabbit. Says Price: "The old sci-fi films were just kind of made up from someone's imagination. But The X-Files calls us every once in a while for information; a lot of the shows do. So a lot of your sci-fi is based on facts, so to speak. And that makes it something that a lot more people will watch, because they're getting more than just entertainment." This observation is more or less true as well for two of this summer's potential movie blockbusters: Men in Black, an inventive action-comedy loosely based on lore about mysterious dark-suited agents who harass people who've seen UFOs; and the more solemn Contact, based on the Carl Sagan novel and said to be, in the words of its director Bob Zemeckis, the rare alien movie "rooted in true scientific believability." "We've done more for them than they do for us," says Price of Hollywood. A handsome, weather-beaten man with surprisingly still, pale blue eyes, he has no apparent enmity toward Hollywood, even though he once got what sounds like the brush-off when he tried to persuade his second cousin, the late producer Don Simpson, to make a movie based on Roswell. On the Hollywood end of things, Peter Roth, the Fox Broadcasting Co.'s Entertainment Group president, readily concedes that aliens have been good to Fox: besides its well-rated The X-Files, the company's movie studio produced Independence Day, and the network broadcast the patently hoaxed autopsy of a creature supposedly recovered at Roswell. But when pressed as to his personal feelings on the subject, Roth is willing to admit only that "there's something in the cosmos that suggests there may be a presence elsewhere." Dean Devlin, co-writer and producer of Independence Day, comes to the field more naturally: he was steeped in UFO culture as a boy by a mother who dragged him to UFO conventions. Although he's skeptical of official explanations of the Roswell Incident, he doubts extraterrestrials were involved: "I don't know what it was, but our government is so bad at keeping secrets, I have a hard time believing that after all these years, the smoking gun hasn't appeared. I live by the watchwords 'Never attribute to deviousness that which can be explained by incompetence.'" Consumers who are interested in learning the thoughts of true believers unmediated by people who drive Land Rovers can turn to the Internet, of course, and to local bookstores. Over the past decade, the publishing industry has pumped out dozens of books on Roswell and hundreds on UFOs in general. In fact, according to Books in Print, there are nearly as many titles available about UFOs (256) as there are about the Kennedys (266), who probably represent the gold standard when it comes to unwarranted public interest in a subject. Not surprisingly, many more Roswell books will be hitting the shelves just in time to capitalize on the Incident's anniversary. The most notorious is Pocket Books' The Day After Roswell, the volume that features a foreword by Strom Thurmond that the Senator disavowed two weeks ago when he learned what the book was actually about. Written by Philip J. Corso, a retired Army-intelligence officer and former member of Thurmond's staff, The Day After Roswell numbers among its many revelations the claim that ever since 1947, when the Roswell crash put the military on alert, the U.S. government has been fighting "the 'real' cold war" against what Corso says the military calls EBEs, or extraterrestrial biological entities. Fortunately, it turns out, Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative tipped the balance of power. As Corso writes, "[The U.S. and U.S.S.R.] both knew who the real targets of SDI were ... When we deployed our advanced particle-beam weapon and tested it in orbit for all to see, the EBEs knew and we knew that they knew that we had our defense of the planet in place." With the '80s finally explained, we can return to the question of what really happened at Roswell. According to which experts one chooses to believe: there may have been more than one crash site; the U.S. government may have recovered dead aliens (the number varies) as well as a salvageable spacecraft; the craft may have been a secret government prototype and the dead aliens may have been test chimps with their fur eerily singed off or, as Popular Mechanics hypothesizes this month, imported Japanese pilots who had been flying similar experimental craft during the war; then again, the wreckage may really have been extraterrestrial, and one of theRoswell. According to which experts one chooses to believe: there may have been more than one crash site; the U.S. government may have recovered dead aliens (the number varies) as well as a salvageable spacecraft; the craft may have been a secret government prototype and the dead aliens may have been test chimps with their fur eerily singed off or, as Popular Mechanics hypothesizes this month, imported Japanese pilots who had been flying similar experimenta If alien society is anything like ours in its leanings toward tragicomedy, the most believable explanation may come from Kristin Corn, the daughter of Hub and Sheila Corn, ranchers whose property 30 or so miles outside of Roswell is home to one of the alleged crash sites (Sheila offers pleasantly homespun tours at $15 a head). Kristin's theory: the crash was caused by alien teenagers who slipped away from a mother ship and went for a joyride, little knowing that alleged film of one of their autopsies would one day appear on the same network as World's Scariest Police Chases. The real truth, assuming it doesn't involve a weather balloon, is made harder to get at by the sometimes mutable memories of aging "witnesses" and the fact that some of the most provocative evidence is secondhand. Industrious UFOlogists may spend years tracking down slim leads like the one attributed to a former cafe owner in Taos, N.M., who told interlocutors that an old customer, a desert rat named Cactus Jack, once told her he was "out there when the spaceship came down" and saw dead aliens with blood "like tar." But despite the best efforts of Kevin Randle and others, no one has yet been able even to confirm Jack's existence, let alone his veracity. Hunting spacemen can be as daunting as finding the lady who dried her poodle in the microwave. And yet it is the very murkiness of the Roswell Incident, the sense that it is both knowable and yet never quite confirmable, that the answers are hovering just beyond the horizon, that gives the Incident its enduring appeal; after all, if the government ever really said "jig's up" and produced a preserved alien for our delectation, we would be stunned for a day or two, perturbed for a week longer, and then we would move on to the girl who gave birth at the prom. As the makers of monster movies know, the unseen is always more compelling than the seen. The particular appeal of Roswell's elusiveness, and allusiveness, is captured in the canny words that appear at the end of The X-Files' credit sequence: "The truth is out there." The point is made more succinctly by the pins sold at the Enigma UFO Museum that read, simply, BELIEVE. What we are talking about is a leap of faith. Benson Saler and Charles A. Ziegler, professors of anthropology at Brandeis University, have just published a study of what they call the Roswell Myth, which in their view has "religious-like" elements without being religion per se. Its primary purpose, Saler and Ziegler say, is twofold. One is as a means of social protest, in that the Roswell story is in great part an antigovernment narrative; as Zeigler points out, the Incident was largely ignored until the late '70s, when it resurfaced and resonated with a public made cynical by those twin devils, Vietnam and Watergate. By then too, the Federal Government had grown so large and its concerns so cosmic--what with the space program and a nuclear arsenal that could, if push came to shove, wipe out humankind--that covert interactions with an alien culture might very well seem within the realm of possibility (curiously, the supposedly advanced alien race of Independence Day takes days to wipe out Earth's great cities, when everyone knows we could do the job in a matter of minutes). By positing a government conspiracy with limitless resources, the more fervent believers in the Myth also inoculate themselves against heresy: any concrete evidence the government or anyone else unearths to prove that the crash was strictly terrestrial is obviously engineered--it's a cannier brand of fundamentalism. The appearance of skeptical articles in a national magazine like this one could be part of a disinformation campaign to distract letter-to-the-editor-writing UFOlogists from more fruitful pursuits. For all you know, this author may be a member of an ultra-top-secret National Security Council committee with a terribly spooky acronym. But no one would work this hard to hash out such an enthrallingly elaborate belief system--the human imagination is depthless, the anthropologists point out--if more profound needs weren't being met as well. At its core, the Myth is a secular way to give the universe meaning, and humanity a renewed place at the head of the table: not only are we not alone, not only are the skies populated by superhuman beings, but their visits here are prima facie evidence that we are of some consuming interest. In Saler's words, the Roswell Myth is "an effort to put enchantment back in nature." UFOlogists, he says, "are employing idioms of science in what is really a romantic pursuit. I find that fascinating, even inspiring in a way." An informal survey suggests that Roswellians themselves are generally less inspired by the whole thing than amused, although some--Christian Fundamentalists in particular--are offended by the city's growing embrace of its unique legacy. "There's kind of a love-hate relationship with this thing," says Stan Crosby, a self-described oil-and-gas man who is the chief organizer of Roswell UFO Encounter '97 (he is married to the director of the International UFO Museum, the glitzier rival to the Enigma). "It's not like we have the prettiest beach," admits Crosby, "or the Carlsbad Caverns. But you know, we've got to go with what we've got. And it sure brings them in." He is already thinking three years hence, when the theme will be Roswell UFO Encounters: On to the Millennium. --With reporting by Jeffrey Ressner/Los Angeles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 TIME: 'Did Aliens Really Land?' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:30:37 -0400 Subject: TIME: 'Did Aliens Really Land?' JUNE 23, 1997 VOL. 149 NO. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SOCIETY DID ALIENS REALLY LAND? AN EXAMINATION OF EVENTS IN 1947 SHOWS SOMETHING DID HAPPEN. BUT THE RESULTING STORIES GOT OUT OF HAND AND OUT OF THIS WORLD BY LEON JAROFF ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A mysterious crash, dead extraterrestrials littering the landscape, a government cover-up. Today the incident near Roswell, N.M., is an elaborate tale, growing ever more so with time and mythic imagination. But when it happened, it was almost imperceptible. The wreckage was strewn over a 200-yd. swath and consisted largely of rubber strips, tinfoil, wood sticks, Scotch tape, other tape with a floral design and what rancher W.W. ("Mac") Brazel described as a rather tough paper. On the day Brazel chanced upon the strange debris, June 14, 1947, he was making his rounds at the J.B. Foster sheep ranch, 85 miles northwest of Roswell. As he later recalled, he was in a hurry and didn't pay much attention to the scattered assortment. Ten days after Brazel's chance discovery, pilot Kenneth Arnold was flying near Washington State's Cascade Mountains when he spotted what he described as nine disklike objects flying in formation at about 1,200 m.p.h. Arnold's report, yet unexplained, immediately gave rise to other sightings, and by July 4, newspapers were heralding literally hundreds of reports of "flying saucers" in skies across the nation. But Brazel had no radio in his ranch shack and was unaware of the sightings until July 5, when he drove to the nearby town of Corona, heard about the saucers and may have learned of a rumored reward for anyone who recovered one. By then, Brazel later told the Roswell Daily Record, he had already returned to the littered field with his wife and two children, gathered the debris and taken it home. On July 7, while in Roswell to sell wool, Brazel dropped by the office of Sheriff George Wilcox, where, he recalled, he "whispered kinda confidential-like" that he might have found a flying disk. Sheriff Wilcox immediately phoned nearby Roswell Army Air Field, home of the 509th Bomb Group, and notified Major Jesse Marcel, the group intelligence officer. Barely able to control his excitement, Marcel sped into town with counterintelligence corps officer Sheridan Cavitt, picked up Brazel and headed out to the ranch. After collecting the debris--which Brazel later reported weighed no more than 5 lbs.--they stowed it in the trunk of Marcel's Buick. On his way back to Roswell, Marcel stopped at his home to show off the booty. Marcel's son Jesse Jr., now 60 and a doctor in Helena, Mont., remembers being awakened by his father and shown tinfoil, plastic, "beams or struts" that seemed metallic, and some strange markings that he thought resembled "hieroglyphics." The younger Marcel was only 10 at the time, but, he told TIME last week, he recalls that his father "was pretty excited, and I kind of think he said 'flying saucers.'" That is most likely the description Major Marcel used when he returned to the airfield. As Walter Haut, who was then the 509th's press officer, tells it, he was ordered by Colonel William Blanchard, the group commander, to issue a press release. Haut, now 75 (he and his wife have license plates that read MR UFO and MRS UFO), remembers Blanchard's saying, "We have in our possession a flying saucer. This thing crashed north of Roswell, and we've shipped it all to General Ramey, 8th Air Force at Fort Worth." Haut's press release caused a sensation. RAAF CAPTURES FLYING SAUCER ON RANCH IN ROSWELL REGION, proclaimed the Roswell Daily Record on July 8. Word of the "capture" quickly spread, and the phone lines in the offices of Sheriff Wilcox and First Lieut. Haut were jammed for hours with press inquiries from around the world. The furor was short-lived. At 8th Air Force headquarters the same night, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, after consultations with his weather forecaster, Warrant Officer Irving Newton, called in the local press and announced that the debris was the remnants not of a saucer but of a high-altitude weather balloon. The sticks and tinfoil, he explained, were from a reflector used to track the balloon by radar. The next day, under the headline GENERAL RAMEY EMPTIES ROSWELL SAUCER, the Daily Record reported his retraction and explanation. In the same edition, the paper quoted rancher Brazel, overwhelmed by the uproar and embarrassed: "If I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it." Tranquillity returned to Roswell, and three decades would pass before any more excitement was stirred. Enter Stanton Friedman, a former itinerant nuclear physicist now living in New Brunswick, Canada, who has long been, in his words, "a clear-cut, unambiguous UFOlogist." In 1978, while waiting in a Baton Rouge, La., television station for an interview, Friedman was told that Jesse Marcel, long retired from the Air Force and living nearby, had once handled the wreckage of a UFO. After quizzing Marcel, who still believed the debris he retrieved was extraterrestrial, Friedman reviewed the old stories about Roswell, painstakingly sought out and interviewed other witnesses, and came to a dramatic conclusion: there had been a cover-up of "cosmic Watergate" proportions. His research and conclusions became the basis of the 1980 book The Roswell Incident, co-written by Charles Berlitz (author of The Bermuda Triangle) and UFO investigator William Moore. Its publication put Roswell back on the map. Mentioned briefly in the book was a yarn, told secondhand to Friedman by a couple who attended one of his lectures in 1972. They claimed that a friend named Grady ("Barney") Barnett, now dead, had told them about coming upon a crashed saucer on the Plains of San Agustin, N.M., about 150 miles west of the Foster ranch, in 1947. Before being shooed away by military police, he claimed, he had spotted several little bodies strewn nearby. Since the story had no apparent connection to Roswell and was given scant credence by Friedman and the authors, it was generally ignored. Yet it was the UFO era's first mention of alien casualties. But not the last. In 1988, responding to the continuing speculation about Roswell, the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) in Chicago sponsored a team to seek out the crash site, recover any remaining debris and interview surviving "witnesses." Three years later the key members of that team, science-fiction author Kevin Randle and CUFOS investigator Don Schmitt, published their conclusions in the book UFO Crash at Roswell. In addition to recovering a UFO at Roswell, they charged, the government had found and spirited away the remnants of its crew, several little alien bodies. Randle and Schmitt bolstered their tale with accounts by Roswell witnesses, some of whom had earlier been ferreted out and interviewed by Friedman. The most notable of their sources was Glenn Dennis, who in 1947 was 22 and working as a mortician. Dennis told of receiving inquiries from the air base that July about the availability of child-size coffins and procedures for embalming bodies that had been exposed to the weather for days. Even more intriguing, he claimed that he had seen strange activity at the base hospital early in July and had been ordered to leave after encountering a hysterical Army nurse, who later told him she had aided doctors performing autopsies on strange-looking, small bodies. The nurse, he added, had sworn him to secrecy and had been transferred to England, and flown out of the base shortly after they spoke. Later, he said, he heard that she had been killed in a plane crash. Dennis, who still lives near Roswell, claims that until 1990, the only person he ever told about the strange goings-on was his father. Why? "I didn't want to get mixed up in this mess." Friedman, meanwhile, was pursuing a new lead. His preoccupation with UFOs had landed him a stint as adviser for a 1989 episode of the TV show Unsolved Mysteries that dealt with Roswell and other purported UFO crashes, including the one that ostensibly occurred in 1947 on the Plains of San Agustin. One viewer of that show, Gerald Anderson, responded quickly to an 800 number flashed on the screen, protesting that the re-enactment of the event was inaccurate. For one thing, he told the operator, the shape of the crashed spacecraft was wrong. And how did he know? Anderson, now a resident of Springfield, Mo., explained that he moved to New Mexico with his family in 1947, when he was five, and that on a rock-hunting outing on the Plains of San Agustin, the group had come across the wrecked craft. Friedman was ecstatic. This seemed to be solid confirmation of the story casually mentioned in The Roswell Incident. He arranged to have John Carpenter, a Springfield therapist, interview Anderson. Carpenter, who also directed investigations for the local chapter of MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, conducted several sessions with Anderson, often using hypnosis, presumably to help him "recover" buried memories of the event. Anderson later told the Springfield News-Leader: "We all went up ...to it [a large silver disk]. There were three creatures, three bodies, lying on the ground underneath this thing in the shade. Two weren't moving, and the third one obviously was having trouble breathing, like when you have broken ribs. There was a fourth one [that]...apparently had been giving first aid to the others." Soon after, Anderson claimed, the military arrived, warned everyone to forget what they had seen and "unceremoniously ushered" the civilians away from the site. And why hadn't Anderson ever told his story before? As he grew into manhood, he explains, he "tucked" away the memory. "I learned you just don't go up to the average person on the street and say, 'Damn, know what I saw?'" Armed with his new evidence, Friedman and UFO researcher Don Berliner co-authored their own book, Crash at Corona, in 1992. Their conclusion: the government recovered not one but two saucers in July 1947, along with seven dead extraterrestrials and one that was still alive. The first craft, they claimed, crashed near Corona after some kind of midair accident that showered debris on the Foster ranch. And the second, they wrote, was surely the one Anderson saw. In their 1994 sequel, The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, Randle and Schmitt introduced still more people they called witnesses. One was Roswell resident Frank Kaufman (called Steve MacKenzie in the book because he initially preferred anonymity). He maintained that he was part of a military contingent that had searched for a crashed saucer and, 40 miles south of the Foster sheep ranch, had discovered a craft shaped like a plane fuselage, its nose buried in a sandy hill. Through a cracked section, he insisted, he saw several little bodies. Another tale was told by a Carlsbad, N.M., resident, Jim Ragsdale, who said he and a woman friend, camping out in an area north of Roswell during the Fourth of July weekend in 1947, were amorously involved one night when they saw an object flash overhead and crash not far away. Seeking out the wreck, he said, they discovered a crashed saucer and, using a flashlight, spotted several little corpses. They returned in the morning to get a better look but beat a hasty retreat when they saw a military convoy approaching. Roswell researchers agree that something happened out there, but they are a rancorous bunch, given to ferocious infighting. Collaborators become enemies, one calls another a "pathological liar," another attempts to block publication of a rival's book, and they relish discrediting each other's witnesses. The bete noire of the Roswell community is a former Aviation Week senior editor named Philip Klass, who now publishes the Skeptics' UFO Newsletter, a bimonthly that regularly exposes duplicity and deflates UFO claims. Roswell believers are hard pressed, for example, to counter Klass's point that while they argue about whether the crash date was July 2 or July 4, Brazel reported unequivocally that he discovered the debris on June 14. Klass has constantly quoted secret documents, recently released under the Freedom of Information Act, showing that well after the Roswell incident, the nation's top security officials were still seeking physical evidence--any evidence--that UFOs are real. Minutes of an Air Force Scientific Advisory Board meeting convened on March 17, 1948, for example, quote Colonel Howard McCoy, then chief of intelligence at what is now the Wright Patterson Air Force Base (where the bodies and debris were supposedly shipped): "We are running down every [UFO] report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of thexample, quote Colonel Howard McCoy, then chief of intelligence at what is now the Wright Patterson Air Force Base (where the bodies and debris were supposedly shipped): "We are running down every [UFO] report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of these crash in an area Still, as the Roswell controversy becomes more heated, Washington has been under increasing pressure to resolve it. At the urging of New Mexico Representative Steven Schiff, who complained about a government "cover-up" of Roswell and the "runaround" he was getting from the Pentagon, the General Accounting Office announced in January 1994 that it would launch a hunt for any documents related to the "incident." That announcement was noted in the Washington Post under the headline "GAO Turns to Alien Turf in Probe: Bodies of space voyagers said to have disappeared in 1947." Stung by the publicity, the Air Force reacted defensively. It promptly began a six-month investigation of its own, and released its report the following July. The Air Force investigators, under Colonel Richard Weaver, interviewed the surviving firsthand witnesses to the debris recovery, searched records and followed leads that brought them to Charles Moore, a scientist who in 1947 was working on the then top-secret Project Mogul. Mogul, Moore explained, involved launching trains of balloons that carried acoustical equipment designed to monitor Soviet nuclear tests. So that the balloons could be tracked by radar, they were equipped with corner reflectors. Records showed that one such balloon train was launched on June 4 and was tracked to within 20 miles of the Foster ranch before it disappeared from the radar scopes in mid-June. Even more telling, Moore reported, the corner reflectors were put together with beams made of balsa wood and coated with "Elmer's-type" glue (to strengthen them). Also, he noted, the New York toy company that manufactured the reflectors had reinforced the seams with leftover tape that Moore recalled had "pinkish-purple abstract flower-like designs"--markings that Major Marcel could have interpreted as hieroglyphics. Finally, the Air Force report stated, "there was no indication in official records from the [1947] period that there was heightened military operational or security activity which should have been generated if this was, in fact, the first recovery of materials and/or persons from another world." The GAO probe, released in 1995, reported much the same conclusion. Perhaps even more disturbing to Roswell buffs was "Roswell in Perspective," an article in the publication of the Fund for UFO Research. That report was the product of a two-year investigation by Karl Pflock, who, after a career that included stints in the CIA and the Pentagon, resigned to become a full-time UFO investigator and writer. Pflock, who still believes that some UFOs are extraterrestrial, nonetheless diligently pursued leads and helped uncover the Charles Moore revelations. Pflock also found gaping holes in the testimony of such "witnesses" as Frank Kaufman and Jim Ragsdale. Pflock's conclusion: "It is all but certain that at least the great majority, if not all, of what was found at the debris field on the Foster ranch" was the wreckage of a Project Mogul balloon. Still another recent defector from the ranks of the hopeful is Kent Jeffrey, a Delta Air Lines pilot and UFO buff best known for his "Roswell Declaration," a petition urging the Federal Government to promptly release all documents pertaining to Roswell. Because his father had known Colonel Blanchard of the 509th Bomb Command, Jeffrey was able to wangle an invitation to the 1996 reunion of the 509th. There he met pilots stationed at Roswell in 1947, most of whom, he found, had "heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started." After chasing down other sources suggested by 509th pilots, Jeffrey was convinced. "In essence," he says, "the 1947 Roswell case has turned out to be a red herring, diverting time and resources away from research into the real UFO phenomenon." Later this month, the Air Force will release the results of its second study, launched after UFOlogists complained that its 1994 report did not address the issue of alien bodies. ("It seemed rational to us," explains the Air Force's Weaver, "that since we proved there were no UFOs, it automatically meant no aliens.") For a few years after 1947, the report will explain, the Air Force conducted experiments that involved dropping dummies from high-altitude balloons to study the results of the impact. Witnesses' descriptions of the "aliens," the Air Force notes, closely match the characteristics of the dummies: 3 1/2 ft. to 4 ft. tall, bluish skin coloration and no ears, hair, eyebrows or eyelashes. "What quite likely happened," says Weaver, "is that people who saw these dummies mistook them for aliens." And, he notes, because no mention of aliens was made until 1978, those "who were interviewed were trying to recall events that took place 30 years earlier." Weaver blames UFOlogists for "linking" these sightings, which occurred after 1947, to the original Roswell incident. Despite the Air Force reports, despite Pflock and Jeffrey, Roswell believers remain unshaken. "If you can't attack the data," Friedman says, "attack the people by saying they are nuts, kooks, quacks ... The evidence is overwhelming," he insists, "that planet Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial life." The millions of Americans who believe that U.S. officials are withholding the truth about Roswell specifically and UFOs in general are not about to be swayed by the facts. Echoing The X-Files, they insist the truth is still out there. Says Weaver: "What I hadn't realized [before we issued our first report] was the vehemence of the pro-UFO people. Telling them there was no saucer at Roswell was like telling a kid there is no Santa Claus." With the urge to believe so strong, the legend of Roswell will doubtless go on and on. --Reported by James Willwerth/Roswell, Elaine Rivera/New York and Chandrani Ghosh/Washington
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Asteroid 3753 web site? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:25:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Asteroid 3753 web site? >A recent posting thru "UFO Updates" mentions a web site for the asteroid >but doesn't give the web site URL. Could you please e-mail it to me or >post it to Updates? > >(The article carries an address: www.asteroid.yorku.calcompanion which does >not seem to work. I have not been able to figure out a variation or to >locate it thru search engine work. When I tried this address I got a "no >DNS entry" type message.) >Michael Gantt: > mgantt@gantt.com > >Baltimore Blues Society Web Pages: > http://www.clark.net/pub/mgantt/bbs Michael Gantt and list, Sorry about that. Perhaps I could blame my scanner! The correct URL is: www.asteroid.yorku.ca/companion Drew Williamson Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Sagan's Motives From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:28:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Sagan's Motives >Subj. Sagan's Motives >Date: 97-06-14 20:07:31 EDT >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >To: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: 14 June 97 13:06:07 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CAUS - JUST CAUSE #50 Jerry Clark, wrote: >Sagan was a good scientist, but he was also a careerist. He >knew full well, of course, that if he were to acknowledge that >there might be something important in UFO sighting, that would >have stopped his career fast. Thanks for your response, Jerry. You make good logical sense. Naturally, Sagan wouldn't advocate the existence of UFO's and hurt his career. However, if rumors are true, about his having almost $500,000 worth of hi-tech security around his house, who has paid for it and why? I wonder if he was wealthy enough to pay for it on his own? If in fact, it's true? To tell you the truth, I'd like to subscribe to your Journal. Could you give me an address? I'm especially interested in what Budd has written and Greg Sandow too. I've heard Hopkins bring the subject of Carl Sagan up. But I've never heard all the details. It seemed as though, Sagan was all talk and no action. Thanks, Linda Cortile Bob Shell, wrote: >Linda, >The possibility exists, of course, that Sagan was successor to >Menzel on MJ-12, and was in on the secret, and part and parcel >of the coverup. Anything is possible, Bob. I wonder who will be Sagan's successor? Phil Klass? I'll bet on Queen Elizabeth II. I'll even bet that Peter Brooksmith will agree with that one, huh? <G> Regards, Linda Cortile Search for other documents from or mentioning: honeybe100 | clark |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: New Roswell 'Magazine' From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@hiwaay.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:38:10 -0400 Subject: Re: New Roswell 'Magazine' > To: UPDATES@GLOBALSERVE.NET > Subject: NEW ROSWELL MAGAZINE > From: drjackryan@juno.com (John P Ryan) > Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:04:43 EDT > Today I picked up a new "Magazine" called "THE COMPLETE ROSWELL UFO > ENCYCLOPEDIA", a Special 50th Anniversary Collectors' issue. The > Magazine is not dated, but by the bar code it says "MVP 1997". It is a > very interesting and information packed magazine filled with pictures and > documents. > Most of the photographs are copyright by XFX, Inc. and it says special > thanks to Steve Johnson." I suppose he works there or owns the company. > If anyone has any information on XFX, Inc. or Steve Johnson, please > e-mail me with the information. Also, pick up a copy of the magazine, it > should be available to everyone soon. Steve Johnson owns XFX, if I remember correctly. XFX is special effects company in California. To UFOlogist, their most famous creation is the dummy used in Showtime's Roswell. That is the same dummy on display at one of the Roswell museums. And the same dummy that was photographed by an asian tourist and turned up in Japan as a "real alien autopsy." It is also the dummy that can be purchased from Sharper Image. Anyway, XFX is a fairly sucessful special effects company. I won't list all of their projects, but they loved the publicity they've gotten out of the Roswell Autopsy furor! I spoke to a representative of XFX when Penthouse published photographs of their alien. It was the XFX alien as well. I've still got their number, if you want it. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Time: New Roswell Explanation (Weaver) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:50:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:35:30 -0400 Subject: Time: New Roswell Explanation (Weaver) Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" June 17 at 0.01 local Danish time: 16. Juni 1997 23.59.25 alt.alien.visitors Item From: smunro@nextdim.com,usenet Subject: Explanation of "New Roswell Explanation" rumors To: alt.alien.visitors From latest issue of _Time_ (you can find it on the web through <http://pathfinder.com/> ----- Later this month, the Air Force will release the results of its second study, launched after UFOlogists complained that its 1994 report did not address the issue of alien bodies. ("It seemed rational to us," explains the Air Force's Weaver, "that since we proved there were no UFOs, it automatically meant no aliens.") For a few years after 1947, the report will explain, the Air Force conducted experiments that involved dropping dummies from high-altitude balloons to study the results of the impact. Witnesses' descriptions of the "aliens," the Air Force notes, closely match the characteristics of the dummies: 3 1/2 ft. to 4 ft. tall, bluish skin coloration and no ears, hair, eyebrows or eyelashes. "What quite likely happened," says Weaver, "is that people who saw these dummies mistook them for aliens." And, he notes, because no mention of aliens was made until 1978, those "who were interviewed were trying to recall events that took place 30 years earlier." Weaver blames UFOlogists for "linking" these sightings, which occurred after 1947, to the original Roswell incident. ----- Scott A. Munro http://www.nextdim.com/users/smunro/ UFOs, Jack the Ripper, politics, fiction, and other strange subjects. Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:59:25 GMT From: smunro@nextdim.com (Scott A. Munro) Subject: Explanation of "New Roswell Explanation" rumors Message-ID: <33a5b6dd.108781589@205.235.135.3> Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | smunro |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Roswell Braces for Tourist Invasion From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:26:49 -0400 Subject: Roswell Braces for Tourist Invasion --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Roswell Braces for Tourist Invasion Date: 97-06-17 01:24:40 EDT From: AOL News <HTML><PRE><I>.c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By MARTHA MENDOZA ROSWELL, N.M. (AP) - ``I'll tell you one thing. They didn't have big eyes or long, stringy fingers,'' 80-year-old Frank Kaufmann says of the aliens. ``No ma'am. These were trim, good-looking people.'' In 1947, Kaufmann and a handful of other men stationed at the Roswell Army Air Field stumbled onto what they say was wreckage of a spaceship northwest of town. This year, the 50th anniversary of the story, Roswell is cashing in. ``Something happened here and it's probably the most credible UFO event in the world,'' said Mayor Tom Jennings. ``We've taken that and developed it into a whole new industry - tourism.'' Roswell, which sits on the plains east of the Sierra Blanca mountain range in southeastern New Mexico, expects its 48,000 population to double as UFO believers, researchers and the curious flock to town for a July 1-6 golden anniversary of the alleged crash. Although the Army air field is long gone, replaced with an industrial park and municipal airport, what allegedly happened here lives on. Kaufmann, a retired government intelligence agent, said he watched soldiers put five dead aliens into body bags and haul a damaged spaceship onto a flatbed truck to the post. Glenn Dennis, a mortician at a Roswell funeral home, said he got a call from the Army post to send out several small, medically sealed caskets. Army Lt. Walter Haut, then the post's public information officer, issued a press release that a ``flying disc'' had been recovered. The next day a new statement went out saying it was only a weather balloon. ``I guess they changed their mind,'' said Haut, 75. Others didn't. The story spawned numerous books and is considered by UFO buffs to be the biggest cover-up in U.S. history. It was mentioned in the movie blockbuster ``Independence Day,'' which featured a super-secret government lab where scientists had studied alien cadavers for decades. In real life, people usually drove right through Roswell, a center of the state's oil and gas industry surrounded by dry grass, high plains hills and cattle ranches. The antiquated courthouse on Main Street, the tree-lined neighborhoods, the quiet parks - all made Roswell a nice place to live, but a dull one to visit. While no aliens have been spotted lately, strange phenomena have occurred. The historic Plains movie theater at First and Main streets is now a UFO museum - one of two in town - with a big flying saucer on the roof. The snow cone stand is selling ``Alien Juice.'' A country-western band of alien figures cut out of plywood - ``The Pleiadians'' - is jamming in the storefront window of Gingsberg Music Co. Michelle Watts, owner of the Quilt Talk fabric store, is doling out her newly designed fabric with aliens and spaceships. ``This boon could go on indefinitely. People just can't get enough of it,'' said Randhi Hesse as he rang up sales of alien T-shirts and mock spaceship crashes at the Star Child gift shop. Anniversary contributions dried up for a bit when members of the Heaven's Gate cult killed themselves in March, claiming they were headed for a UFO. ``That's all but forgotten now,'' said Stan Crosby, the anniversary organizer. ``We're booming.'' Planned events include daily tours to the alleged crash sites, a Crash and Burn Extravaganza derby on Main Street, and UFO lectures. Aliens are hot. ``The X-Files'' television show, in which FBI agents track the paranormal and extraterrestrial, is part of America's pop culture. ``Star Trek'' seems indefatigable, ``Independence Day'' made megabucks, and wasn't that Michael Jordan shooting hoops with aliens in the ``Space Jam'' movie? ``We don't get a lot of kooks,'' said Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum & Research Center museum and Crosby's wife. ``OK, there's this old man who comes in and he claims to be an alien,'' she said, ``but we see a lot of learned people, professors, doctors, professionals interested in researching this phenomena.'' AP-NY-06-17-97 0116EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Corso Book From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:41:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:41:07 -0400 Subject: Corso Book Very interesting book. I just heard on a radio station (KCMO-AM KC Missouri) that Corso is dead. Is that correct? If so, does anyone know the co-author? RE: Thurmond. In reading the book and reading Thurmonds Forward it is clear to me that Thurmond was talking about a man's military career and the infiltration of foreign powers into the US Gov. Of course I am only half way through the book...maybe Thurmond is mentioned in a different capacity. If Corso is dead and Birnes wrote the book, then what is written must be looked at differently. It is second hand and could be subject to "poetic license" by the co-auhtor. Barbara Becker c549597@showme.missouri.edu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@Prodigy.Net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:00:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:32:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 Again I find myself on the same page as my brother John Velez. > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 > I've been following the thread involving Kent Jeffreys > with interest. After reading his piece, I find it to be > reasonable, well documented, and presented in a very clear > and rational manner. Do I ever agree. Jeffreys's piece is a model of what investigative reporting should be. We know where he got his information, how he got it, and why he formed his conclusions. And the information is substantial. Has any other Roswell researcher talked to all those bomber pilots, or to the officers -- including the commander -- at the Air Force foreign technology division? As it happens, Jeffreys's writing goes against what I've chosen to believe. But them's the breaks, when you try to deal with reality. If anyone doesn't like what Jeffreys says, why not refute it? For instance, Ed Komarek could find all those bomber pilots, and see if they really say what Jeffreys says they do. Better that, then -- for God's sake! -- getting a court order against the man! Bob Shell raised some good counterarguments. And obviously we need to hear from Kevin Randle and Stan Friedman. But if Jeffreys is behaving like some unreasonable debunker, I just don't see it. Anyone who's read me here over the past year knows that I'm no friend of the Philip Klasses, James Obergs, and Carl Sagans of the world, who are intellectually dishonest (and, in Sagan's case, uninformed). That doesn't strike me as remotely true of Jeffreys, who writes like an honest, hard-working gentleman who has the unfortunate task of saying something many people don't want to believe. While I'm at it, let me tip my hat to John Stepowski, who has clarified things mightily on the pro-Mogul side. Again, he might not have delivered the last word on everything. But he has suggested a scenario that for the first time explains -- at least to me -- how the command at the Roswell base could have released a press release saying that they'd found a flying disk. A good part of that scenario depends on John's explaining to us that "flying disc" didn't have the implications in 1947 that it has today. Some time ago, I complained about the way many of us (including me!) speculate about things that really should be looked at by professional historians. I don't know what John does for a living, but he's done exactly what a historian would do, and put the Roswell events in the context of 1947, something I've never seen done before. (And yo...the man can <write>!) Let's not bash Kent Jeffreys' character. (Unless he's guilty of crimes I'm simply not aware of.) If he's wrong, let's prove it with facts. Kevin? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: lists@the-den.clara.net [Nick Humphries] Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:27:47 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:48:09 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! Just read Kent Jeffery's Roswell article and I have to say that it presents a _lot_ of food for thought for those who believe Roswell was a UFO crash. I myself gave up on Roswell a couple of years ago - the case was being investigated and reinvestigated so many times that so many different versions of the story came out. In the end I couldn't take any more and now regard Roswell as folklore. For those of who who disagree, answer this question: How many alien bodies were recovered at the crash site? So far I've had numbers between none and seven. It didn't really surprise me that the first Jeffrey-basher was Bob Shell, a man who cannot possibly be unbiased over this as Jeffrey wrote off the alien autopsy video, along with 95% of other ufologists. But the best response came from ol' faithful Ed "I'm not paranoid" Komarek. It starts: > >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE >By Ed Komarek >6/16/97 > >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! So much for rational debate... I've snipped most of the paranoid garbage about how to tackle intelligence agents hiding as ufologists and will concentrate on the central point of his amusing article. >So how do we stop Jeffery? I can think off hand of three ways. One is to >get a court order I wonder if the CSETI people might be able to help here. I see... ORTK want openness from the govt about UFOs, but not from skeptics? Also, as I'm a Brit, can someone tell me what law Jeffrey has broken that would justify a court order? > Another is air this whole controversy in the mainstream press before >Jeffery delivers the petitions. Sigh... as if Roswell hasn't had enough publicity this year... >And last have pro Roswell people at the >petition site. I have to assume for tactical reasons that he is going to >deliver the petitions personally. Did you read Jeffrey's article, Ed? The Roswell Declaration is a movement to try and get the govt to release UFO info, not just Roswell. As Jeffrey has decided that Roswell has a mundane explaination, but UFOs in general are ET, then it makes sense for his petition to be delivered by himself. Has it ever occured to you that having ORTK protesters around when the petition is presented with hinder the cause rather than help it? ORTK is a laughing stock in the UK - about a dozen protesters picketed the Houses of Parliament and ORTK claim a victory... Of course, the basis of ORTK is flawed - if you want more information released, either campaign to broaden the FOIA in the USA or campaing for a FOIA in the UK (which we're now going to get with the new govt). Keep the UFO aspect out of the campaigns and more people would take ORTK seriously. But I guess even fringe subjects have their extremists... Take care, Nick. Nick Humphries, nickh@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? *** NOTICE NEW E-MAIL - YOU SPAM, YOU DIE! *** Search for other documents from or mentioning: lists | edkomarek |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (Working too much). From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:46:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:42:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (Working too much). Seems like I've been working too much. I am the cowriter of a book on UFOs and have to deliver part of the manuscript this Thursday, so I have been working 9 hours with no pause. I wrote the post off-line and just found out that in these wee hours I forgot to delete the "unsent message" lines at the start, so here's the final version. Sorry about the inconvenience. updates@globalserve.net writes: >>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:37:55 -0400 >>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Bentwaters: Project Pounce >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Regarding... >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:13 +0200 >>Subject: Bentwaters: Project Pounce (fwd) >>Stig submitted a "Special Report by Col. Wilson": >On the day Dec. 28, 1980, GMT, Project Pounce was activated. We >received a command to proceed to RAF Woodbridge, a joint >US/British NATO base at Suffolk, England, 81st TAC Fighter Wing >where we would be met by a Special Delta Force team. >>Who exactly are "we" and who issued the command? >>Is there any reason to believe this isn't a bogus story? As mentioned in the post, it was forwarded from the mailing list of Francisco Lopez d005734c@dc.seflin.org while he received it from the "Skywatch" mailing list. The author of the post, Colonel Steve Wilson, is the "executive director" of the Skywatch organisation which has a website, too, where Wilson ("Topgrizly") offers this short bio of himself: *** http://www.wic.net/page/50bios-z.htm#topgrizly TopGrizly Escaped the orphanage at age 14 and joined the Army Air Force. It was easy to get in back then. Came up through the ranks from Private to a Full Colonel after 40 years. Went to flight school at Kelly AF Base, Texas. Was in the Korean, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Auckland and Persian Gulf Wars. Time out for College and majored in Archaeology, Paleontology. A highly decorated fighter pilot and triple Ace. One of a few holders of the Air Medal of Honor, Silver Star, with 2 DSC's (Distinguished Service Cross), wounded in action twice with two purple hearts, AF commendation medal and the POW/MIA award. After a strange encounter with a UFO, was assigned to Branch of Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UFO Investigations). At one time was attached to the 1st Air Force Special Forces Air Command. A 5' 11" Stocky individual now makes his home in Grand Junction, Colorado. Never Married. (end) Further details on Wilson's military career were furnished by Richard Boylan in an e-mail to the IUFO mailing list on May 22, 1997. The text deals with the congressional briefing which was initiated by CSETI, and it deserves notice that Strom Thurmond were among the participants. At the end of the letter Wilson's involvement with Project Pounce is mentioned: *** Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Date: Thu, 22 May 97 10:04:16 -0800 Subject: IUFO: Show & Tell To: iufo@world.std.com -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List SHOW and TELL: Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Going Public By Richard Boylan, Ph.D. On April 9, 1997, a closed briefing was given Congressional, White House and other Administration officials on evidence of UFO reality and extraterrestrial presence. A witness revealed that among the dignitaries were Senator Strom Thurmond, Congressman Weingard, and the wife of the CIA Director. Testimony was given by Apollo astronaut Mitchell, Dr. Greer, and two dozen other prime government-insider witnesses. (snip) A further glimpse into the military's secretive obsession with UFO technology was provided by retired Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson in late May, 1997, in response to reports of a huge UFO over Phoenix in mid-May. Colonel Wilson, who formerly headed the Air Force's Project Pounce [UFO recovery teams], said that there has been a stringent "lock-down" on Air Force personnel discussing UFOs since January 3, 1994. That was the date the military began publicly flying the enormous Black Triangle antigravity craft, which the Colonel said were back- engineered from UFOs. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA. (916) 455-0120 E-mail: rich.boylan@24stex.com ; Primary website: www.ufonetwork.com/boylan/ Author of: Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, Labored Journey To The Stars and Project Epiphany. (end) >We were to contact the Base Commander, Col. Dale C. Tabor... >>Wouldn't that have been Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams, >>or Colonel Ted Conrad? Wilson is clearly wrong, but his memory might have failed him, so his story cannot be discounted just for this one reason. Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams was the overall US commander of the adjacent bases RAF Woodbridge and RAF Bentwaters, which together housed the US Air Force 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, while Squadron Leader Donald Moreland was the bases overseer appointed by the British government. Colonel Ted Conrad was the Bentwaters base commander, and the Woodbridge base commander was Colonel Sam Morgan who released the first, though edited, copy of the Halt tape to solicitor and UFO investigator, Harry Harris, in 1984. The tape was recorded "live" during the event. >...and Question Lt. Col. Charles Halt, The Deputy Base Commander >about the UFO sighting and landing there. We were to view the >complete filming including the landing. >>This presumably being a reference to the alleged landing claimed >>to have been witnessed by Larry Warren. The evidence >>supporting that story is not too strong. >>Why no apparent interest in the triangular-shaped object >>witnessed at length in the forest a couple of night's previously? >>It's possible authenticity is supported by a number of cohesive >>accounts and it's a report which Colonel Halt (ret.) still stands by. >>As none of the witnesses to that event claim it was filmed and >>as Halt is adamant the events he witnessed in the forest a >>couple of nights later weren't filmed either, what film was there >>to watch? Warren embellishes his story each time he's telling it and can readibly be discounted as a reliable witness. Concerning the filming, at least photographs were taken. The latest edition of CNI News (Vol. 3 No. 7 Part 2) carries an excerpt from a longer transcript of a May 13, 1997 interview conducted by journalist A.J.S. Rayl with Colonel Charles I. Halt, USAF (ret.), for Project Watchfire on the Microsoft Network. A.J.S. Rayl wrote extensively for OMNI magazine and his latest credit is the cover story for this year's U.S. Nobel Foundation Conference Magazine. Part of the excerpt deals with the photographic evidence: *** Rayl: What happened to the evidence? You, as I understand, took photographs that night. Halt: The individual from Disaster Preparedness that had the Geiger-counter was also a professional photographer. He took one if not two rolls of film of the indentations, of marks on the trees, of the objects in the sky, and he developed them. I gave him a call a day or two later, and said, "How did the film come out?" And he said, "It's all fogged." I said, "Fogged? Are you sure you didn't make a mistake?" "No," he said, "I've been doing this for many years. Obviously, something happened to the film." So, as far as I know, that night, there were no good photographs. There was no video. There was no film taken, to my knowledge. (end) >Our investigation showed that a landing pattern was produced in >the grass... >>Uh-oh...it wasn't perchance...please say it wasn't.... >This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) >>Oh good grief. It's easier to ridicule than to contemplate, but try to check your sarcasm when you read the information below. I do not bring it as an endorsement of Wilson's story, by the way, but to add a little zest. It was published by UFO Roundup: *** To: alt.paranet.ufo UFO Update Articles from the Net, edited by Jason Last week, UFO ROUNDUP reported the strange case of the "crop circle" etched in cement in the backyard patio of a retired couple living in Hemitt, California. Now some startling New information has been offered in this case. . (snip) MARCH 8, 1997 Indianapolis, Indiana Contact: Terry Coddington (889) 889-3612 According to retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson, there was a similar incident in Hemitt nearly 35 years ago, back in the summer of 1962. Col. Wilson writes, "In July 1962, I investigated exactly the same kind of circle that was found by Mr. Peffly of Hemitt, Cal., who worked for the (California) Division of Forestry based in Hemitt. This circle appeared at the forestry camp at Puerta La Cruz, where Mr. Peffly worked. (USAF) Tests were done on the substance and it was found (to be) only slightly radioactive. It had also changed the composition of the cement." According to Col. Wilson, the 1962 incident was hushed up by Delta Force, which reportedly threatened Mr. Heffly and his family. (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: The July 1962 incident sounds like a typical "evidence retrieval" by what was then called Operation Moon Dust.) And, if you want to read back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check in at this URL: http:www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts (end) >The film was immediately sent to a special office in the Pentagon >designated OSIP (This changes constantly to avoid detection). >>Of course. >We then proceeded to erase all evidence of the arrival of the craft. >>But forget to ask Colonel Halt not to make an official report of the >>other incidents, which there were witnesses to corroborate. >>Stig, where did this story originate? Oh good grief! >>James. >>E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | pulsar |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 SUN Newsletter: Jeffrey says: "No crashed saucer" From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:13:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:39:45 -0400 Subject: SUN Newsletter: Jeffrey says: "No crashed saucer" Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" June 17 at 13.27 local Danish time: The following article is reprinted from the July 1997 issue of Skeptics UFO Newsletter by permission of the editor, Phil Klass. I thought some of you might find it of interest. ************************************************** "ROSWELL INITAITIVE" SPONSOR JEFFREY CONCLUDES: NO CRASHED SAUCER Kent Jeffrey, who got more than 20,000 persons to sign a "Roswell Initiative" petition asking president Clinton to release all classified UFO information in the hope that the "truth" about the incident could be known, has gone on record that he is now convinced that there was no Roswell crashed saucer =96 as predicted by SUN (#44/March 1997). Jeffrey=92s candid report on what prompted him to change his views =96 partially the result of his own investigations =96 is detailed in a lengthy article slated for the new (June) issue of the "MUFON UFO Journal." Several months ago, when Jeffrey confided his new views to several Roswell researchers (including officials from the Hynek Center for UFO studies) and explained what has prompted the change, he was sharply criticized and accused of "letting down" the many persons who had signed his Roswell Initiative. In Jeffrey=92s MUFON article he explains: "With regard to reversing my stance, it is important to remember that the objective of the Roswell Initiative has been to find the truth, not define it. Unfortunately, the truth turned out to be different from what I thought it might be, or hoped it would be. However, now that I am absolutely certain that the debris recovered from Roswell was not that from an extraterrestrial craft, I feel and obligation to get that information out as well. Not to do so would be less than forthright and less than honest" [SUN compliments MUFON for enabling Jeffrey to present his new views.] Jeffrey, a senior pilot with a major U.S. airline, is best known in UFOlogical circles for his Roswell Initiative, but he has done considerable investigation on his own =96 funded out of his own pocket. For example, Jeffrey tried to help when he received a Mar. 20, 1993 letter from Roswell researcher Don Schmitt, which claimed he had located "another first-hand witness to the [ET] bodies. This brings our total to eight with yet additional prospects." Some of these (alleged) witnesses were formerly in the military and claimed they were reluctant to speak out because of possible consequences for violating their security oaths. Jeffrey hired a Washington D.C. law firm at his own expense to send two of its lawyers to New Mexico to counsel Schmitt=92s eight ET-body witnesses.=20 But when they arrived in Roswell, there was only one witness =96 and his tale "was considered outlandish and unbelievable," according to Jeffrey.=20 JEFFREY FIRST TO INTERVIEW MANY FORMER 509TH BOMB GROUP Although Roswell book authors such as Schmitt, Kevin Randle, Stanton Friedman, and Don Berliner brag about how many (alleged) witnesses they have interviewed, if they interviewed former members of the 509th Bomb Group based at Roswell in mid-1947, their books never quote their skeptical views on a crashed saucer. Jeffrey not only wrote to more than 700 former members of the 509th seeking any who might shed some light on the Roswell Incident, but he attended their reunion last September in Tucson. As a result, Jeffrey has talked with 15 former B-29 pilots and two navigators who were based at Roswell in mid-1947.=20 Not one of them had heard anything about recovery of an ET craft at the time, Jeffrey reports. Jack Ingham, who spent 16 years with the 509th from early 1947 and retired as a Lt. Colonel, stressed to Jeffrey that: "the 509th was a very close-knit group and there was no way an event as spectacular as the recovery of a crashed alien spaceship from another world could have happened at their base without them knowing about it." In early January of this year, in an effort to use every available technique to enhance the recollections of Dr. Jesse Marcell=20 about the debris that his father had brought back from the Brazel ranch and had shown to him 50 years ago, Jeffrey arranged to have Marcell undergo regressive hypnosis in Washington D.C. It was administered by dr. Neal Hibler, who has achieved fame for his skill in using the technique for forensic purposes. (Jeffrey underwrote both the cost of Hibler=92s services and the cost of bringing Marcel to Washington, along with his daughter who videotaped more than six hours of recall sessions conducted over a three-day period.) Jeffrey acknowledges that "hypnosis can elicit memories of things that didn=92t [really] happen, but it can=92t take away memories of things that did happen." Dr. Marcell was able to recall a few unimportant new details of what had occurred during the night when his father returned with the debris, but no new details about the debris itself. It still consisted of=20 "pieces of metallic foil, a short beam or stick, and a few pieces of plastic or Bakelite-like substance. Certainly such mundane debris would not constitute the wreckage from any kind of sophisticated vehicle or craft, much less one capable of interstellar travel," according to Jeffrey. "In addition to being mundane, the material recovered from the Foster [Brazel] ranch is definitely reconcilable with the debris from an ML-307 radar reflector [carried by the Project Mogul balloon train which was tracked to within about 20 miles of where Brazel found the debris] =96 the length and cross-sectional size of the beams or sticks, the pieces of foil, and the plastic-like material (now thought to be part of the plastic ballast cases that contained sand).=20 Even the color of the symbols that Jesse Marcel, Jr., remembers is almost identical to the color that Air Force meteorologist Irving Newton remembers seeing in [Gen.] Ramey=92s office." Jeffrey also acknowledges that his current views were influenced by once "Secret" and "Top Secret" letters written in 1947-48 by top USAF officials which refer to the lack of any crashed UFO which could help them identify what UFOs were. One which particularly impressed Jeffrey was the Nov. 8, 1948, letter from Col. Howard McCoy, Chief of Intelligence for the USAF=92s Air Materiel Command at Wright-Patterson AFB to Maj. Gen. C. P. Cabell, USAF=92s Director of Intelligence. In the letter, McCoy said that "the exact nature of these objects cannot be established until physical evidence, such as that which would result from a crash, has been obtained." Many Roswell researchers ignore such hard data or, like Michael D. Swords, foolishly claim that "the McCoy letter has nothing to do with the Roswell Incident." [SUN #45/May 1997]. In Jeffrey=92s MUFON article he says he still plans to present the Roswell Initiative papers to the White House in early July, seeking de-classification of any still-classified UFO material. "If no information is being withheld, such action would, nonetheless, have the positive effect of setting the record straight and clearing up years of suspicion and controversy." SUN disagrees. If President Clinton were to respond by announcing that the U.S. had recovered crashed saucers from 49 of its 50 states, but not a single one from New Mexico, Friedman, Randle, Swords and others would still insist that the government was covering up the Roswell crashed saucer. ************************************************** The Skeptics UFO Newsletter is published bimonthly by: Phil Klass Editor, Skeptics UFO Newsletter 404 "N" St. SW Washington, D.C. 20024 Subscription rate (six issues) is $15/year for U.S./Canada Overseas rate (air mail) is $20/year. Check/money order payable to Philip J. Klass Best regards to all=85 but especially Dave Rudiak. ;-) --=20 Bob Imrie, Volunteer counselor for the fantasy-prone. "A space ship made of sticks, and foil, and floral tape? Oh, my!" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:23:38 -0700 From: "Robert Imrie, DVM" <aleonis@{nospam}aleonis.seanet.com> Subject: "NO CRASHED SAUCER," says Roswell Initiative sponsor Kent Jeffrey Message-ID: <5o5s2n$2bk@q.seanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:38:09 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:50:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze At 11:46 14-6-97 -0400, you wrote: >From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >BUFORA was a bit suspicious of the photographs, but couldn't be sure that >there was anything wrong with them, so sent them to Bruce Maccabee in the >US for analysis. >After about a year, BM came back to say that he didn't know what the >pictures were showing, but that he was convinced that they were genuine. >During that time, the witness finally admitted to BUFORA that the >pictures were photographs of something which he had cut out and stuck to >his bedroom window. Ah yes, the old 'hit and run' tactic. I can see how that could be useful if your intentions are perpetuating myths, without backing them up, ever. Anyway, I solicited a response from Bruce myself, who was (as usual) extremely cooperative in providing additional information. Here's what he had to say (I've edited his response somewhat for clarity of context): [Begin Maccabee's response...] >Robert Bull WOW, WHAT A LOT OF ......ROBERT..... that is! I guess he really doesn't know much about the PB case! I have reviewed my 9 year old file on PB. I spent a lot of time analyzing four photos showing a supposed UFO moving over the rooves of houses across the street (at least the sighting lines were over the rooves.) The pictures were taken from a second story window by PB. It was witnessed by his girlgriend. No other wit- nesses. He told some of his fishing buddies at a pub and the story got to a newspaper guy who printed the photos and the story... Philip Mantle essentially ran the investigation. He sent me pictures for my analsysis, and eventually I got the original negatives, too, for analysis. I suggested experiments with the camera, which were carried out. It became clear over the following months that the British investigators suspected a hoax. As for myself, I analyzed the pictures to determine whether or not there was proof of a hoax. The Nov. 30, 1988 edition of the British tabloid DAILY STAR, under the heading UFO IS NO FAKE writes as follows about the photos: "British boffins confessed they were baffled so the pictures were sent to Star Wars scientist Dr. Bruce Maccabee. In a fact packed 29 page report, the world renowned optical physicist says: 'I have spent hours trying to find evidnece that this was a hoax... and I have failed. My gut feeling is that the case is good. It seems believable.' " The DAILY STAR, in the March 17, 1989 edition under the heading UFO ACES SHOOT DOWN ROOFTOP SAUCER, reported my work as follows: "The prints were sent to Star Wars scientist Dr. Bruce Macabeen (sic) who admitted in a 29 page report: ' I've done all I can to find evidence that this was a hoax.... and I have failed." The newspaper then went on to quote some work done by Adrian Vance of Ground Saucer Watch who concluded it was a hoax based on his own (rather cursory) analysis. Now let's look at what I really said in my 5 PAGE LETTER (not 29 page report!) of July 16, 1988. I described how I had determined that the sighting lines to the UFO passed through the window at ***nearly the same point** which would be consistent with a model pasted on the window. Perhaps it was necessary to move the model a little between photos 1 and 4, but the fact that the sighting directions to the UFO change quite a bit, yet the sighting lines through the window were about the same suggested that the apparent ,motion of the UFO could be attributed to the cameraman moving between photos of a cutout pasted on the window. The geomotric reconstruction was based on the fact that the left the edge of the window is in th photo... but there was not enough window edge detail for a perfect reconstruction. Therefore I couldn't be positive. I wrote as follows (in part): "The upshot of this matter is that the UO (unidentified object) didn't do anything that a paste-on couldn't do, as far as I can tell. If a hoax, then perhaps the cutout was moved (between pictures). But this wouldn't be difficult. I have a rule of thumb which is that to be regarded as a convincing candidate for UFO reality a UO must demonstrate something which would be, at least, dif- ficult to fake. This UO doesn't do that. The best a UFO photo can do is support the story. No UFO rteport can be taken as valid based on photographic evidence alone. A photo could prove a sighting was a hoax, but (except in rare cases) it could not prove the case is real. These photos don't positively prove the case is a hoax, but they certainly raise lots of questions about it,. My gut feeling was that the case was good based on the innocuous story that went along with it... it *seems** believable, especially when backed by a second witness..... Angelica's statement that the UO didn't seem to know which way to go sounds more like her recall of an actual event then her recall of a story made up by herself and Peter to explain the apparent positions of the UFO against the sky. " (Note: the 4 photos seemed to show a UFO moving first to the left and then to the right). "I have spent a number of hours analyzing the photos. I have tried to find evidence that would tend to *rule out** a hoax (i.e., evidence of a difficult hoax; e.g. many sizes of models; the UO moved on the window for each picture, etc.). I have failed to do so. I still can't say that it **was** a hoax. However, I can't use this to prove anything to a skeptic so I don't intend to spend more time on it." (Starred items were in italics in the original. If you read carefully you can see the basis of the newspaper quote about "failed" in the above paragraph. I then went on to suggest that someone else with more time to invest in model-on-window experi- ments might learn something more definitive.) NOW, you may ask, how did the first newspaper article come about? The answer is that on Sept. 10 1988 I wrote to Peter Beard and stated the following: "I wish to make my position in this quite clear. I was asked to help investigate your report by Philip Mantle. He asked me to analyze the pictures to see what I could learn about them. My intent was twofold: (a) to find out if there was anything in the photos which would prove they aren't a hoax, and (b) to learn more about the UFO itself. In order to accomplish (a) it was necessary to make many measurements of the objects that appear in the pictures and to make measurements of the window. That is why the investigators borrowed the camera you used and took many test photos from your room. Unfortunately I was not able to discover any factors about your photos which, by themselves, would prove they are not a hoax. I emphasize that this does not mean that I am claiming they are a hoax. It only means that I cannot prove to a skeptic that they aren't a hoax using only the photos as evidence. I should point out also that, because of difficulties related to obtaining exactly comparative photos with the same camera I was not able to complete my analysis to my own satisfaction. Someone else, with more time to attempt to duplicate your pictures with the same (or an identical) camera might be able to provide a more definitive analysis." According to Philip Mantle, Peter Beard took my 5 page letter to the newspaper as proof that the photos were real. Hence the Nov. 1988 article mentioned above. In a March, 1989 letter to me Philip said: "You might like to know that when Peter Beard received a copy of your analysis he pursuaded a national tabloid newspaper that his photos were genuine. I pointed out to this newspaper that your analysis stongly suggested, although it did not prove, that the photos were a hoax. Unfortunately this newspaper misquoted me and instead chose to believe Peter Beard. After all, hoax UFO stories do not sell newspapers." I presume that Robert B.... is basing his claim on these newspaper accounts which, as you can see, do not fairly represent my analysis of the PB case. I did not continue the investigation of the PB case because GULF BREEZE took over "the world" in Nov. 1987... and it took over all my time in the spring of 1988.... no more time for PB. Philip Mantle and BUFORA "officially concluded the photo was a fake. To the best of my knowledge, PB NEVER admitted a fake. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Kent Jeffery's Research From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:33:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:38:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffery's Research Sigh......Kent Jeffery isn't a debunker. He's a once devout, fervent, and sincere follower of his religion who has had his faith sorely shaken. Now he lashes back like the average slathering atheist might do when posting a reply to the christian fundamentalist out to spread his gospel. Get a grip people, UFOs don't matter......much...at least not much more than any other obscure faith spawned by otherwordly encounters, like say, Mormanism, Judaism, or the Virgin Mary cult. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:34:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! We are all interested about the consequences of debunking and disinformation but, how about the facts? Quite frankly, I give a damn about if what allegedly happened in Roswell actually happened or not. I don't need a holly grail because I'm not a believer, I'm a scientist. Although scarse, there is evidence out of Roswell to support that something is out there and things ocurr. May be is human made, or is "interdimesional," or are really litle grey guys, reptoids, nordics, pleiadeans and other ET races from who knows where. I'm interested in knowing the truth, not in following a religion nor an ideology. Francisco UFOR List Manager
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 11:32:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:32:55 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:48:09 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >SNIP >UFO Crashes >The problem with the concept of a UFO crashing is that as >technology advances, so does reliability. Be it with cars, >airplanes, televisions, or wristwatches, the reliability of >today's technology far exceeds that of the technology of just a >few decades ago. For example, because of the high reliability of >their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are >now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic. A few >decades ago, that would have been unthinkable. (The positive >correlation between advancing technology and reliability applies >to "proven" technology, not experimental state-of-the art machines >still in the developmental phase, such as experimental aircraft >or space vehicles.) >This incredible degree of reliability is found with a technology >that would be primitive compared with a UFO. Even with today's >relatively "primitive" technology, our commercial aircraft have >very efficient collision avoidance systems, as well as excellent >radar systems for avoiding thunderstorms and their associated >hail and lightning (phenomena, incidentally, that are surely not >unique to this planet). >If we assume that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft and that >some of the many reported UFO sightings are genuine UFOs, we are >dealing with machines apparently capable of high-speed >right-angle turns, incredible accelerations and speeds, and >wingless flight -- not to mention of traveling light-years >through the void of empty space in, presumably, a relatively >short period of time. Such capability would require a technology >totally beyond our present understanding of physics -- a >technology the sophistication of which we cannot even begin to >imagine. >Because of the positive correlation between technology and >reliability, such incredibly advanced technology would most >certainly mean a correspondingly high degree of reliability. >Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, >breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. It certainly >would be many orders of magnitude less than the already >infinitesimally small chance of one of today's twin-engine >jetliners having a double-engine failure. >SNIP Kent's logic here fails on several counts. There were several instances where operational (not experimental) high technology aircraft failed. One was the high number of Army UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters that malfunctioned apparently from interference caused by nearby radar and microwave transmitters. These transmitters produced anamolous signals in the Integrated Circuits used in control and guidance causing the helicopter to respond to these signals and execute manuevers that caused crashes. The F-16 Fighting Falcon used by the Air Force had a fly-by-wire system installed. High Tech. Many of these seemed to have malfunctioned causing the fighter when flying in exercises to dive straight into the ground! The more sophisticated technical systems are not necessarily more complex but can be more sensitive to environmental conditions. An alien space vehicle coming into an alien (from its perspective) environment with unknown environmental (both natural and artificial conditions) could be susceptible to interference and loss of control and crash! Also, the technology employed might initially be beyond our physical models, but clever engineers and scientists would come up with, at the very least, new conceptual models on how these craft traverse the light-years to get here from there, and NASA has even instituted a breakthrough physics program to study how we can get there from here much faster than a rocket ship. At any rate, some of us have observed sophisticated classic UFO technology ascending out of the Northrop facility in the Tehachapi Mountains of Calif. Where did Northrop get ideas for that type of tech? And if they can launch a craft from that mountain at a 45 degree angle into the sky with almost instantaneous acceleration, why are we not using such a launch vehicle in NASA current STS program? Or does this all go back to the so-called mythical Roswell spacecraft? Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com Work e-mail: bhamilto@pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan Search for other documents from or mentioning: bhamilto | furry |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Jun 97 17:00:34 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:59:13 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 21:41:10 +0100 >From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Bob, >I don't want to sound paranoid like Ed, but have you considered Kent >perhaps being _forced_ in one way or another to write all that crap? >No. Guess it's a bit _too_ paranoid. >Or..is it? >Cheers, >Ralf Ralf, It's only paranoia if they aren't really after you. If there are people who are charged with the job of keeping this secret, they will stop at nothing to do so. Threatening witnesses worked 50 years ago. Today I suspect they would be more subtle. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:58:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 Kent Jeffrey wrote: >Even before the advent of recent negative developments in the >Roswell case, I have always felt that a UFO would never crash. Jeffrey stated this to me several times over the past 2 years, and I've never understood the argument. I find it very unlikely that either an ET technology or ET's would be infallible. Does Jeffrey think they are gods? > For example, because of the high reliability of >their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are >now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic.... >With today's industry-average engine-failure rate of less than >one failure per 100,000 flight hours, the chances of both engines >of a two-engine jetliner failing during a given hour of flight >are less than one out of 10 billion. Figuring 50,000 >aircraft-ocean crossings per year, and factoring in such >variables as average time over the water and average distance >from land, the odds are less than fifty-fifty of a double-engine >failure and consequent ditching in the North Atlantic of even one >such aircraft over the next 10,000 years. This is simply nonsense and a misuse of statistics. Physicist Richard Feynman, who was on the Challenger disaster commission, discovered that NASA had used similar overoptimistic statistical analysis and had placed the chance of catestrophic failure on a Shuttle mission at only 1 in 100,000. To point out how absurd the number was, Feynman noted that at one Shuttle mission per week, such failures would only be expected only every 2000 years. Some more realistic engineers he spoke to, however, placed the expected failure rate at closer to 1 in 100 missions. I think NASA now places the expected failure rate at 1 in 200 missions. Astronauts are brave people. Another example was the JAL 747 flight about a dozen years ago which lost its hydraulic system and crashed. Boeing had built four "independent" hydraulic systems into the plane, and placed the odds of simultaneous failure at one in one Godzillian. But as Bob Shell points out in another post, Sushi happens. The rear pressure bulkhead had been damaged in a rough landing from before. Boeing then did a flawed repair. As a result, the bulkhead later blew out. The schrapnel sheared all four "independent" hydraulic lines, which were lying side by side in the tail section. Thus the supposedly impossible happened. The crash ultimately was due to a whole chain of circumstances that would have been very difficult to anticipate, and collectively led to catastrophe. There are all sorts of similar examples in aviation and elsewhere. >This incredible degree of reliability is found with a technology >that would be primitive compared with a UFO. Even with today's >relatively "primitive" technology, our commercial aircraft have >very efficient collision avoidance systems, as well as excellent >radar systems for avoiding thunderstorms and their associated >hail and lightning (phenomena, incidentally, that are surely not >unique to this planet). But unfortunately parts sometimes break unexpectedly, maintenance people and flight crews can screw up, unexpected design flaws only show up after many millions of flight hours (perhaps behind the TWA 800 explosion), planes collide, etc., etc., no matter how reliable the craft generally is. >If we assume that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft and that >some of the many reported UFO sightings are genuine UFOs, we are >dealing with machines apparently capable of high-speed >right-angle turns, incredible accelerations and speeds, and >wingless flight. And for exactly these reasons, they are going to be subjected to much higher mechanical stresses, energy loads, and reductions in reaction time. That's why you are much more likely to crash when driving a race car in the Indy 500 than driving 500 miles down the freeway in your family sedan. Therefore I think it's rather absurd to compare the failure rate of very high-performance aircraft to rather wimpy commercial airliners. Military aircraft, e.g., have much higher crash rates. But that's to be expected. No one expects commericial airliners to be taken into steep dives, flown at supersonic speeds while flying at treetop level, pull high g turns, etc. The margin for error, both engineering and human, is much lower. For atmospheric UFOs, the energy outputs, speeds, and accelerations are probably at least an order of magnitude higher than even military aircraft. Even if these craft were built 100 times more reliable than a commercial jet, they are probably subjected to 100 times the levels of stress. Any slight flaw in the structural materials or error on the part of the pilot could result in catastrophic failure. I think it could be reasonably argued that even with superior structural materials and a great deal of experience in constructing these things that the failure rate could be higher, not lower, than an airliner, just like a Shuttle or racecar or jet fighter is more likely to fail because of the physical demands being made on it. The main reason we shouldn't expect UFO crashes to be all that common is because UFOs aren't all that common. You are thousands or times more likely to see a commercial airliner flying overhead on a given day than a flying saucer, no matter where you live. Therefore, we would expect such crashes to be quite infrequent. Of course, if various militaries are trying to shoot them down, then all bets are off. Also, if most of these craft are "unmanned" probes, then reliability and survivability are much less of an issue. They could be considered expendable. > not to mention of traveling light-years >through the void of empty space in, presumably, a relatively >short period of time. I believe I've read this same silly argument at least a hundred times before. I call this the "aliens are always dumber than the humans" argument. When humans operate in an area, we establish a nearby base of operations. We don't live in homes 10,000 miles from where we work every day. We didn't expect our bombers to fly 10,000 miles to and from Iraq during Desert Storm. It's not efficient. We used aircraft carriers and foreign staging bases. What Jeffrey is doing is equating the jet fighter to the aircraft carrier. The generally small craft that most people see are almost certainly scout or short excursion craft, not a mothership, and are not capable of flying light years (if that indeed is what is happening). They very likely come from some nearby base of operations. Therefore, Jeffrey's whole argument is spurious. > Such capability would require a technology >totally beyond our present understanding of physics -- a >technology the sophistication of which we cannot even begin to imagine. This may or may not be true. We can already conceive of ways in which we might achieve interstellar travel. It doesn't require any new basic physics, but it does require an enormous economic and engineering infrastructure, which might very well be possible if we go out and exploit the raw resources of our solar system in a big way in upcoming centuries. In any case, it really has nothing to do with whether atmospheric excursion craft would be crashing or not. And such craft may be using technology not all that far removed from our own, such as some form of magnetohydrodynamic propulsion. >Because of the positive correlation between technology and >reliability, such incredibly advanced technology would most >certainly mean a correspondingly high degree of reliability. Not necessarily. I think you have a much greater chance of having a fatal crash in a race car than a donkey cart. The sophistication and reliability of the technology is only one component of what determines failure rates. Other factors are the physical demands being placed on the vehicle and driver, plain old dumb luck, and malicious intent or incompetence on the part of others. >Common sense dictates that the chances of such machines crashing, >breaking down, or colliding would be all but zero. Only when debunking. To my mind, catastrophic failure on a very advanced, high-performance craft seems quite plausible because of the much greater stresses and demands being placed on the materials, energy supply, and pilot/navigation system. > It certainly would be many orders of magnitude less than the already >infinitesimally small chance of one of today's twin-engine >jetliners having a double-engine failure. Nothing but speculation based on very poor reasoning, unfortunately. I have nothing against Kent Jeffrey, but dumb debunking arguments are just dumb debunking arguments. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 17 Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:33:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:53:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >From: ??? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: Maccabee & Gulf Breeze >Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:49:10 -0400 > [...] > >A _few_ pertinent quotes from MUFON Ontario's >'Review of The Carp/Guardian Case' published >in The (then) MUFON Ontario Newsletter - 1994. >The 6 part Review is available at: >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/o/oechsler/ >"Oechsler used one of of Bruce Maccabee's personal > cheques made out for $1,000 (US) which he gave to > Osterbrook [the polygraphist] as payment for the > testing. > "In 1993, 'The Air Report' (Associated Investigator's > Report #1) raised the issue of Maccabee's possibly > using The Fund for UFO Research's money for personal gain: > [quote] > Dr. Maccabee has made at least one trip to Ontario to > investigate the case. It is not known whether any Fund > for UFO Research monies were expended in this investigation. > [quote ends]" >[snip] > "The most important point here is not Oechsler's > selling of this material to the television shows > 'Unsolved Mysteries' and 'Sightings' but Dr. Maccabee's > clear support for the validity of the case. Dr. Maccabee > spoke in support of the authenticity of the Guardian > video on at least one television program and before the > large audience of a UFO conference in Silver Spring, MD." > "Richard Hall, the Fund's (for UFO Research) newly > elected chairman, also said that he was equally perplexed > by some of the UFO cases that Maccabee had promoted such as > Gulf Breeze and the "Guardian" case." >[snip] >"Not just in the mind of the writer of the 'Air Report' but > also on the lips of many of ufology's leading lights. Not > 'horrible!', just an immense waste of time, energy and money > on a patent hoax. And how callous of a man who for many years > was trusted and respected by his peers." > "Bruce Maccabee's motive and actions throughout the course of > Oechsler's investigation are highly suspect and we feel that > Maccabee owes an explanation to all those in our field who > have trusted his judgment over the years." >[snip] > "3) Oechsler used his manipulative ability to build a story > even though he knew of the circumstances and exactly what was > going on and together with Bruce Maccabee, intentionally misled > the public, the media and ufology using unethical means, and > bad judgement in order to benefit financially and personally." This has come up twice now in the last couple of weeks. I'm not familiar with the Guardian case, but I did email Maccabee, as suggested, to ask him for his account. The following is a long summary of his dealings with the case, originally penned as a response to the Ontario MUFON report but not printed as such, and subsequently posted on Compuserve. [Begin Maccabee on Guardian] May 25, 1994 LETTER TO THE EDITOR MUFON Journal 103 Oldetown Rd. Seguin, TX 78155 From: Bruce Maccabee I applaud MUFON for the decision to "clear the air" about "Guardian" by dealing with the "FACTS of the case." However, your recent article contains very little information that could clear the air. The article ("Uncovering the Guardian Caper," by Errol Bruce Knapp and Tom Theophanous of MUFON in Ontario) is, in fact, quite strange. As the first part of a series of articles it purports to be a refutation of the Guardian case and the casual reader may well believe that Mr. Theophanous has provided some evidence that it was a hoax perpetrated by "Guardian," whoever that is, and promoted, for money, by Bob Oechsler. However, the alert reader will realize that the article presents no convincing evidence to show that either the witness testimony or the video constitute a hoax. Instead the article makes a number of unfavorable allegations about Bob Oechsler and tries to make it look as if the investigation was inept. I'm sure Bob will have his own comments in response to these allegations. As for myself, I was a consultant and active participant in portions of the investigation and I can state that the investigation was not inept. Furthermore, it is my opinion that the hoax conclusion seems unlikely to be true, considering the witness testimony, and is, at the very least, premature. The reasons for my opinion of the Guardian case are outlined below. One of the allegations in the article is particularly disturbing to me, since it distorts my initial impression of the Guardian case. According to the article, "Oeschler (sic) had shown the tape to Bruce Maccabee and they agreed that what they saw was a UFO and should be investigated further...and that's why Oeschler called Tom at CUFORN." I don't know how the author or Tom Theophanous could have known my initial opinion of the Guardian video since neither one talked to me about it. Psychic, perhaps? Anyway, they are wrong. When Bob first showed me the video and the "documents" that came along with it I most certainly did not "agree" that what I saw was a UFO. My immediate impression was that, if it weren't a hoax, it was, at the very least impossible to prove true since Guardian was anonymous. To the best of my recollection, Bob did not say that he thought it "was" a UFO. However, he did indicate that it was intriguing and could bear some "looking into." My own reaction was one of disinterest.. I generally feel that a case without a witness is, at best, a waste of time. The "documents" which Guardian supplied made it appear to me to be another of the "Nazi UFO" types of paranoid UFO literature that has circulated in the past. The video, with no commentary, was difficult to understand. Nevertheless we did spend some time studying the video and we arrived at some tentative conclusions. We decided that the red lights were probably flares sending off smoke. We could see what we supposed was the UFO with its blue flashing light on top. We could hear background machine-like noises and we could hear dogs barking in the background. I was particularly interested in the second part which starts off with the image moving rapidly around the screen. The image becomes somewhat more stable and then one sees, on a frame-by-frame basis, the best images of the supposed UFO as it is silhouetted against light from the background flares. (Note: the second part of the video which Bob received in the mail was many seconds longer than what appeared in the video sent to CUFORN.) The way the image of the UFO appears, first showing just the top flashing light and then further and further downward on the UFO until finally you see all the way down to the bottom suggested to me that the videographer was walking toward the UFO and climbing a hill while he was videotaping. But, of course, with no witness testimony and no other evidence, for all we knew the whole video could have been a fabrication. Bob pointed out that the map which Guardian supplied seemed to show a real location and that there appeared to be a lot of potentially verifiable information in some of Guardian's diagrams. However, I was not convinced that the case was worth pursuing. I forgot about the Guardian case soon (seconds?) after I left Oechsler's house on that early spring night when he showed it to me. I was surprised to learn later that he had contacted some Canadian investigators in order to pursue the case a bit further. I was even more surprised to learn a month or so later on that he planned to go to Canada to try to locate witnesses and perhaps even find Guardian. I did not really pay any attention to the Guardian case until after Bob returned from his May, 1992, trip and informed me that he had found a witness. According to Bob, she (Diane Labenek) had been found as a result of a door-to-door search along one of the roads indicated on Guardian's map. She had recalled an event that she had seen in the field behind (east of) her house late one August night the previous summer while putting her children to bed. They had seen it, too. What she recalled was basically what is depicted in the Guardian video, including bright red burning fires and an object with bright lights and a flashing light on top. Bob told me that he videotaped her describing her sighting and making drawings before she was shown the video. He then videotaped her reaction to seeing the video. She said it showed what she had seen. She also stated that the object or UFO initially landed near the fires and subsequently departed some time after the flares went out. Shortly afterward a helicopter flew over her house and the field. Her estimate of the date and time of the event were consistent with the information provided by Guardian. During an investigation of the area where Mrs. Labenek indicated that she had seen the red fires Bob located what appeared to be evidence of some "landing traces. These were found at the back (east) end of the Labenek's field, about 2,000 ft from the house. There were crushed bushes, mashed to the ground, that had not grown back by the time of his visit, even though the event had occurred the previous August. (These bushes were still mashed down in November, 1992, when I visited the site.) He also found black material on the bushes. Bob found that the Labenek's have an outdoor kennel near their house. This fact is important inasmuch as a dog or dogs are heard barking in the Guardian videotape. He also found a path or route, starting at the fence on the north side and running eastward, through the field that the videographer might have taken. Mrs. Labenek's view of the portion of this route closest to the house (still hundreds of feet away, however) was blocked by a large storage building on the Labenek's property. This blockage, and the darkness, could explain why Mrs. Labenek didn't notice anyone walking in the field. Bob discovered that while he was walking along this route he went through an area that gave the impression of walking up a hill, similar to what we had deduced that the videographer had done during the second section of the video. All of this information made the first four segments of the Guardian video, but not the accompanying "documents," more interesting to me. (The later segments of the video showing an "alien face" in various poses is still enigmatic and, at the present time, of little value in establishing the validity of the Guardian case.) The video raised lots of questions, of course, about Guardian and how he (she?) managed to get the video. These questions were unanswerable at the time (and many are still not answered). However, the existence of the questions did not prevent a more careful study of the video to determine what it actually showed and whether or not it was consistent with the witness testimony. Of course, when Bob returned he had an accurate map of the area and a drawing of the field with dimensions. In the following months, Bob and I explored other possible routes through the field for the videographer. Although Bob had found a route through the field that seemed to involve walking up a slight hill, it was his impression that this path was too far from the UFO and flares. We therefore tried to think of other possible areas in and around the field where the videographer could have walked. Bob had not found a "real" hill, but something more like a depression in the field. It was my impression that he should look for a real hill somewhere near the back of the field. He did look for a hill in his July and September visits but he found none. The problem of determining the most likely route was not solved until his October trip, which is discussed below. In June, Bob and I visited Dr. John Conkling, President of the American Pyrotechnic Association and professor of chemistry at Washington College in Chestertown, MD. By this time Bob had received the results of scanning microscope and X-ray tests of plant material from a laboratory at the University of Maryland. The laboratory had done analyses to determine the chemical elements present in plants that had been partially coated with black material that was found on some of the plants at the supposed landing site. These tests failed to show the presence of strontium, although they did show excess titanium, as compared to control plants that did not have the black material. Dr. Conkling viewed the video and agreed that the fires look like flares, but he was puzzled at the lack of strontium. He pointed out that in military red flare mixtures the color is imparted by strontium (nitrate or carbonate). Although there were two other materials to create red fire (calcium and lithium), for various reasons these are not used in military flares. He suggested that Bob get more plant samples to look for strontium residue, which should persist in the environment for years. (He also supplied us with a spectrum of red flare light which I used in the analysis of diffraction camera photos of one of the Gulf Breeze "red lights." The Gulf Breeze red light was found to have a spectrum different from that of a military or road flare.) During subsequent analyses of the video I discovered that not all of the faint images above the bright red flares were smoke. Initially I had thought that all of these faint images were puffs of smoke being blown upward and to the right. But after watching a number of times I realized that some of these images stayed in fixed positions above the flares. I concluded that these images must have been caused by light reflected from trees behind the flares. When I visited the site in November I found that there is a dense row of pine trees behind the location where Bob estimated that the flares were. Thus these faint images of trees provided another element of consistency between the video and the landing site identified by Oechsler. Incidently, the images that are puffs of smoke move to the right in the Guardian video. From the reconstruction of the videographer's route through the field it is clear that he was facing roughly east. A check with the weather for the date of the sighting given by Guardian showed a gentle north or northeast wind, which would blow smoke southward or to the right in the video, thus establishing a measure of consistency between the video and the known conditions on the date of the sighting. Before Bob's fourth trip in October, 1992, we tried to estimate the size of the UFO in order to obtain an even better estimate of the videographers path through the Labenek's field. By this time I had realized that any reasonable path for the videographer would have to be consistent with the image sizes on the video. By combining the size of the landing trace area with the estimated camera distance, the focal length and the estimated zoom ratio (6:1) of a typical video camera I "guessed" that the diameter of the UFO was 20 to 30 ft. Therefore I proposed that Bob carry out an experiment using a 25 ft diameter "model UFO" consisting of tall stakes driven into the ground to form a circle. I then suggested that Bob use his own videocamera, restricting the zoom ratio to 6:1, in the following test: walk away from the circle of stakes while filming until the size of the "UFO" image in his camera is comparable to that in the Guardian video. I expected that Bob would find himself quite a distance from the "UFO", although he thought that he would be relatively close (he was of the opinion that the videographer had gotten really close to the UFO). As it turned out, this was quite an important experiment because it proved that the videographer was farther from the UFO than Bob had previously guessed. Bob found that he had to be about fifteen to seventeen hundred feet away to get the same image size for the first part of the video which shows the red fires and the UFO side by side. Because of the shape of the field and the because of the trees around the field the only route which was compatible with both the relative orientation of the flares and the UFO and also with such a large distance was the route that Bob had found initially. This route started at the northwest side of the field near the Labenek's large storage building, and continued in a direction slightly south of eastward for a distance of about 700 feet. All other alternate routes were rejected. To get into the field the videographer could have e ither entered from the empty field to the north or by walking up the Labenek's driveway, past the house and past the dog kennels. (I thought it unlikely that he would have walked up the driveway.) In order to enter the Labenek's field from the north the videographer would have had to cross a barbed wire fence. Bob found two places in the fence where the wires had been pushed apart indicating the passage of someone. (I confirmed that these existed during my visit in November.) When I visited the area I investigated the route through the field which Bob had determined during the October tests. Although I had earlier considered the possibility that the videographer had walked partway around the UFO and found a hill in some other direction to walk up while videotaping, I realized that the simplest path for the videographer was straight toward the UFO from the location of the initial point which was 1,500 to 1,700 ft from the UFO and flares. Therefore, to carry out my test I started at the estimated initial position and walked in a straight line toward the supposed landing location. In so doing I rediscovered what Bob had found during his May trip: this route led me through a depression in the field which caused my view of the estimated landing location to be obscured temporarily. As I contined to walk, however, my view was restored in the same manner as shown on the Guardian video. At the point where my view of the ground level was restored I was about 1,000 ft from the supposed landing area. I should point out that I had no problem walking through the field and did so while looking through the video camera lens. I found no big rocks or potholes to trip over. (Of course, in the summer it would have been more difficult because of the tall grasses and plants that grow in the field.) I made yet another check when I was at the site. In September, 1992, Bob learned that the Labenek's next door neighbor, Dr. A. J. Quarrington had also seen some strange things that night. He was watching TV when suddenly there was some interference with the signal. At this time he looked away from the TV and noticed red light coming through his window. His first thought was that he had seen red lightning. He looked through the window to see the red lightning and, instead, he saw red looking fires at the back of the Labenek's field. He also claims he saw a yellow glowing object pass over and drop down behind trees. He did not say he saw an object on the ground with a flashing blue light. Yet the flashing blue light is a prominent feature in the video and was recalled by Diane Labenek. I wondered, why didn't he see it if he could see the flares? While I was in the field I looked toward Quarrington's house, which is about 500 ft south of the Labenek's house and about 2,000 ft west-southwest of the supposed landing site. I discovered that I could see his house from the estimated location of the flares (about 50 - 100 north-northeast of the landing site, ) but a line of dense pine trees cut off my view of his house when I was standing at the estimated the landing site itself. Hence his failure to see the UFO on the ground is consistent with the the nature of the Labenek's back field and the estimated landing site area discovered by Bob in May, 1992. One result of this case having been presented on Unsolved Mysteries in February, 1993 was that another witness came forward. This lady, called "Sarah" claims that she saw the UFO take off from the Labenek's field and then land on the road in front of her house where she saw aliens coming out. "Sarah" has recently told a portion of her story on the "Encounter's" TV show (she wishes to remain anonymous and uses a pseudonym). I tend to believe her because she has passed a lie detector test. It was administered by a rather skeptical polygrapher who tested her twice. He reported "In my opinion 'Sarah' was truthful on all issues examined," which included the following subjects: seeing bright lights over the trees at the Labenek's farm (yes), seeing two aliens exit a craft on the road in front of her house (yes), hearing a helicopter pass over the Lebanek farm after the event (yes), and knowing whether or not the video of the aliens was a hoax (no knowledge of a hoax). As far as I am concerned the case stands or falls on the testimony of the witnesses, not on the video (and certainly not on the Guardian documents). However, since the video seems to be largely consistent with the witness testimony it becomes a valuable resource for details of the imagery that the witnesses could not recall. One such detail of particular interest is the flash rate of the "blue beacon" on the top. It is a brief flash occurring in one frame of every four frames, which corresponds to about 7.5 flashes per second (at 30 frames per second). A recently released document from the Canadian government states that three experts from the Department of Transportation concluded that what landed in the Labenek's field was "likely" either a Sikorsky S-76 commercial helicopter or else a UH60 U.S. military helicopter (yes, U.S. helicopters do cross the border). These helicopters have a white "masthead light" at the center of rotation of the control rods. The control rods are small diameter (ca. 1") vertical bars which run between the top of the helicopter body and the blades. They control the aerodynamics of the blades. According to this document the masthead light was turned on and the helicopter blades were rotating at 360 - 400 RPM. According to the document, the repeated rotation of the control rods around the masthead light caused the light to pulse at "7 cycles per second as stated in the television video" each time a rod passed between the light and the camera. To some people this "authoritative" explanation may seem convincing. However, it fails in several ways: (1) the supposed UFO does not at all resemble a helicopter, (2) rotating helicopter blades would create a wind that would stir up the smoke from the red fires, (3) although the videotape picked up the noise of a dog hundreds of feet away, there is no engine noise that would be expected if the videographer were as close as 1,000 ft from a helicopter, (4) the masthead light is white, but the flashing "UFO beacon" is blue and (5) th is explanation contradicts the characteristics of the flashing light recorded on the video, a fact that should have been obvious to the Canadian "experts." The passage of small diameter control rods between the camera and the masthead light would cause periodic decreases in brightness of the light which would be at full brightness most of the time (e.g., three frames bright, one dark). This is the opposite of the Guardian video flashing light which is dark most of the time and bright for only a short time (i.e., dark for three frames, bright for one frame). Another aspect of the flashing light is of interest. Each time the light flashes at the top of the UFO a light appears a short distance below it. This lower light is less bright and is extended in the left-right direction. Analysis of the shape of the UFO and the location of this light indicates that it is the reflection of the top light from the curved surface of the UFO, thereby indicating that the UFO is a 3 dimensional structure and this reduces the likelihood that the "UFO" was a two dimensional model, such as might be used in a hoax. . Regarding the hoax hypothesis, without any information on Guardian or how the video was obtained we must allow for the possibility that the video is a hoax because virtually any photo or video could be created given enough desire (or a reason for doing so) and the necessary time, money, technical capability and equipment. If we accept as a "given" that the video could be a hoax, then the real question is can we prove it was a hoax? Without information about Guardian or the manner in which the video was obtained we certainly cannot directly prove it was a hoax. We can reverse the question and ask, can we prove it was not a hoax? Again we must answer no, we cannot prove it was not a hoax. Since we can't prove it was not a hoax we might decide to err on the side of caution and "conventional wisdom" and say that it probably is a hoax. On the other hand, a person who accepts the hoax hypothesis for the Guardian video must explain the testimony of three witnesses. The testimony points to some very unusual UFO-type event that occurred on one night in August, 1991, at the east end of the Labenek's field. Are we to assume that the video is a hoax but the Labenek/Quarrington/"Sarah" sighting is real? About the only ways I can imagine to establish consistency between the video hoax hypthesis and the testimony is to either assume that someone set up an elaborate hoax in the Labenek's field without them being aware of it or to assume that the Labeneks and the others were part of the hoax. At present I am aware of no convincing evidence which supports the idea that the Labeneks or anyone else were part of a hoax conspiracy and it is difficult to imagine that anyone could have set up a hoax in their field without their permission. Hence I conclude that the hoax hypothesis is unlikely to be correct, and is, at the very least, premature. (Note: Diane Lebanek at first offered to take a lie detector test. Then someone told her that if she passed she would be killed. She then refused to take a test.) In this letter I have briefly summarized some of the important information in the Guardian case. I have presented more factual details here than there are in the MUFON article. The MUFON article seems to be more of an ad hominem attack on Bob Oechsler than an analysis of the Guardian case. If the author of the article or any of his sources can convincingly refute the testimony of the witnesses then, indeed, this case can be consigned to the scrap heap. However, until then, it must be treated seriously. COMMENTS ON THE SECOND INSTALLMENT OF "THE CARP CASE" by MUFON Ontario In the second part of the article MUFON Ontario has published the names of people who said they wished to remain anonymous, including that of the "Guardian Suspect" who claims that he is not Guardian. This is bad form if not just unethical. MUFON International should consider disciplinary action. (Note: the witness known as "Sarah" has a quite a sensitive Canadian government job, which could be "on the line" if her involvement becomes general knowledge!) The MUFON Ontario version supports Mr. Oechsler's claim that the primary witness, Diane Labenek was "discovered" in a search of the neighborhood for witnesses to a strange event the previous summer. She told of seeing red fires at the back end of her field, of seeing a flying craft land near the fires, of seeing the craft "turn off" and the fires go out, all late one night in August, 1991. The article fails to point out that she recalled all of this before she was shown the video. The article claims that there is a contradiction between Mrs. Labenek's testimony and the video. According to the article she said the craft appeared to be silver grey with a zig-zag pattern around it and appeared to be sitting on three blocks, but the video doesn't show the "thunderbolt design around the craft or the three blocks" and "the video clearly shows the craft to be red, not silver/grey." Taking the last statement first, the video shows the fires to be red and it shows white red and green bright areas around the lower edge of the craft. However, the main surface of the craft is seen only in the "close up" portions of the video as a silhouette against the flares/smoke. The surface appears totally dark in the video except where the flashing top light reflects off the upper surface. At that point one sees blue/white light. Thus all one can really say about the main body of the craft is that it is reflective. Regarding the other statements about what the video camera did not see ("thunderbolt insignia" or blocks under the craft), it should be noted that the typical home video camera is nowhere near as sensitive to light as the human eye. Bright lights cause over exposure and dimly lit surfaces are not detected at all. Unfortunately we don't know what the characteristics of the Guardian video camera are, but based on typical available videocameras in 1991 and earlier, it likely had a sensitivity of 5 lux or more. This is enough to create barely useable videos in a dim room. If the surface of the craft were unlighted or had very dim lighting, and if the blocks were unlighted or very dimly lit, the videocamera might not detect them. Consider, again, that the surface of the craft itself made no impression on the video; it was seen only as a silhouette against the flares and flare-illuminated smoke. If we knew for a fact that the Guardian camera was a very sensitive, expensive camera, then we might have a good reason to question the lack of complete agreement with her description. However, we don't know its sensitivity (and I suspect that the camera was not very good one because the video is quite poor) so we cannot state, as if it were a fact, that there is a contradiction between the video an Mrs. Labenek's testimony. The article makes reference to "three frames" of the video (taking 1/10 of a second) which, it is claimed, show a windshield wiper "in the upright position." The article then asks, as if the windshield wiper identification were proven, "Why would Guardian put those frames that appear to have been shot at night with artificial light, on the tape? Were those frames designed to give a clue as to what the craft really was?" These questions appear to he rhetorical questions, not designed to be answered, but designed to make the reader think..."aha, a hoax." They make sense only if those three frames do show a windshield wiper. I have examined those frames and also the approximately 500 which follow in the video that Mr. Oechsler received. The imagery in those 17 seconds shows lines of varying brightness and orientation including a bright one which slants upward and to the right from near the bottom of the frame. This, I presume, is the "windshield wiper" (as confirmed by Tom's expertise as a windshield wiper repairman!). How he would arrive at that identification is a mystery to me. The only similarity is that the slant of the bright line in the video is comparable to the orientation of a windshield wiper blade at rest. But since windshield wiper blades don't glow in the dark, in order to videotape one in the dark it would be necessary to illuminate it, and the illumination would make apparent other things around the blade, such as the hood of the car/truck, the windshield itself, etc.. It is, in fact, much closer to something that might be desribed as a "thunderbolt" insignia which, according to the article, Diane recalled but did not appear on the video (?)! Apparently it did not occur to the Ontario analysts that, perhaps, this portion of the video shows a portion of what Diane called a zig-zag design. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing just what this shows, since there is no verbal description on the videotape. However, I can see no justification for stating, as a fact, that this portion of the video shows a windshield wiper blade (illuminated in some unknown way that manages to hide all the other things that would be around such a blade!). And then, what about the other thin, dimmer bright lines in the images? Are they other wiper blades? The article refers to juniper bushes which were flattened in the area of the craft itself. The article claims that this sort of flattening is what happens in a normal winter as a result of the weight of snow. I saw some of those bushes myself after they had had a whole summer to "rejuvinate." Other such bushes were standing up nicely, but these were crushed and dead. If normal snow did this to juniper bushes...there wouldn't be many such bushes in Canada - or Maryland. And, if this were a result of snow, then why weren't all (or most) the bushes in the field crushed in a similar way...why just in the area of the craft? [End Maccabee]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Jun 97 16:55:27 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:00:31 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:18:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' I didn't quote all of Phil's newsletter, just all of one discrete section. What you have quoted is a separate section with its own heading. PR flak again????? >If Kent Jeffrey is the Benedict Arnold, what exactly would that make you Mr. >Shell? King of England??? I dunno. I'm a nobody where Roswell is concerned. I'm not even going there for the 50th. You may not consider me a serious researcher, but I have done real research, and have always had a hard-headed idea that evidence on either side of a proposition should be subjected to the same tests. In the case of Roswell, as Kevin Randle has pointed out so eloquently in his post, Kent has simply not applied the same tests to both sides. He has come to the conclusion, he would have us believe, that it was nothing but a balloon, and is busily reworking his facts to fit that scenario. I don't know what, if anything, crashed at Roswell, but would like to see some serious analytical research done, not this argument to a preselected conclusion. And, regarding Mr. Jeffrey's change of heart, I can not be anything but suspicious of the timing. >If Roswell is such a good case, why is everyone so up in arms of Kent's >flimsy evidence? And what else should they be, with this diversion coming out just at the time when something might really be accomplished by those petitions? Personally, I feel betrayed by Kent Jeffrey's abandonment of what the Roswell Initiative was suppose to stand for, and what it might have accomplished. Regarding your question about Marcel, no I have not seen the hypnotic regression videos, and have no desire to see them. I have talked to Jess Marcel via e-mail, and he says emphatically that nothing in the hypnotic sessions changed his mind one bit. He says he is still certain that what he saw was debris from an extraterrestrial probe. I don't know if he is mad at Kent Jeffrey, since did not said anything about it in our exchange. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:08:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:04:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 05:36:32 +0200 >Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce Stig wrote: >>Is there any reason to believe this isn't a bogus story? >The author of the post, Colonel Steve Wilson...offers this short bio >of himself: Stig, Noted, thanks. >>Wouldn't that have been Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams, or >>Colonel Ted Conrad? >Wilson is clearly wrong, but his memory might have failed him, so his >story cannot be discounted just for this one reason. Of course, but it's obviously a point which should be noted. >Warren embellishes his story each time he's telling it and can >readibly be discounted as a reliable witness. Concerning the filming, >at least photographs were taken. Yes, I'm aware of this. The question was, what _filming_ were this "special team" supposed to watch? The person responsible for the story of an event being filmed was Larry Warren and as we agree, that story is of dubious authenticity. >The latest edition of CNI News (Vol. 3 No. 7 Part 2) carries an >excerpt from a longer transcript of a May 13, 1997 interview >conducted by journalist A.J.S. Rayl with Colonel Charles I. Halt, >USAF (ret.), for Project Watchfire on the Microsoft Network. I've had a copy of the full article for a few weeks. It's fine journalism. >A.J.S. Rayl wrote extensively for OMNI magazine and his.... Just to note, A.J.S. Rayl is a lady (Salley Rayl). Bottom line, as Halt says, "So, as far as I know, that night, there were no good photographs. There was no video. There was no film taken, to my knowledge". >>>This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) >>Oh good grief. >It's easier to ridicule than to contemplate, but try to check your >sarcasm when you read the information below. Exasperation isn't ridicule or sarcasm. >I do not bring it as an endorsement of Wilson's story, by the way, >but to add a little zest. Appreciated. It's unfortunately just another anecdotal tale of dark conspiracies. Without any evidence, why should this one be any more likely or believable. What are we being asked to believe by Colonel Wilson. In essence; a claimed covert "ET craft retrieval" project, in association with a "Delta Force", contacted a non-existent base commander to acquire film that was never taken and removed landing traces which relate to an "alien landing" story by a witness who has changed that story many times. Meanwhile, oblivious to the cover-up, the Deputy Base Commander and two base Law Enforcement officers (Burroughs and Penniston), three apparently highly credible witnesses, are permitted to go on national TV and draw significant attention to extraordinary UFO incidents at the base. When Halt complains about "lots of disinformation at what really happened at Bentwaters", I should think the above claims would qualify. We have to sort out fact from fiction, especially with such a compelling case. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:33:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:30:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:51:49 -0500 > From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> > Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO converstion > To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Victor Kean & List Members, > >Whilst we are waiting for the missing STS-48 video would anyone like to comme nt > >upon the transmission from 'Discovery' on March 14th 1989 (06:42 EST) over th e > >French Polynesian Islands in the Pacific, when one of the astronauts reported : > >"HOUSTON, THIS IS DISCOVERY. WE STILL HAVE THE ALIEN SPACECRAFT UNDER > >OBSERVANCE' > Has anyone checked to see if the word is "Arien"? This would make perfect > sense. I believe Arien is a French spacecraft. > Francis Ridge This is really laughable. Why don't you look up the actual name of the French rocket before posting this nonsense. Perhaps you are imagining the astronaut was pronouncing alien with a Japanese accent! Ariane is the name of the French rocket. This one really takes the cake. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit From: JESS FRITCH <jfritch@aimnet.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:54:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:29:07 -0400 Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit > From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:36:44 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit --solved?? > >LONDON -- Investigators are baffled by an apparent near-collision > >between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object over > >England. > >The BAe 146, bound for Stansted in eastern England from Dublin, took > >evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red > >aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them north of > >London. > >The jet passed 30 metres above the object two seconds later. > >The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested > >that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a > >Hawk jet from the Royal Air Force's Red Arrows aerobatics team. > >But searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts failed to find > >another aircraft in the area. > >Britain's Civil Aviation Authority group was set up to examine the > >incident, which happened last June. > >It said yesterday there was no doubt the pilots ``saw something and > >agreed in some detail in their descriptions.'' > It would say that it's highly likely that what these pilot's almost collided > with was the NASA LoFlyte plane. The Belgium government recently stated that > this > plane may have been the culprit for the triangle sightings in Belgium in > 1990. Personally I think this is unlikely due to the fact the LoFlyte plane > does not match the witness descriptions of the Belgian triangles at all > however, the LoFlyte plane seen here: > http://www.finart.be/UfocomHq/english/loflyt.html > matches the pilot's descriptions from this article almost exactly. > Jared. The U.S. Government has been flying these black triangles for some time now. Using Electrogravitics (the control of gravity) not anti-gravity. At the end of the STS-48 video, it shows one of the triangles. I hope to have a good copy of it very soon. I have been for the last five years giving lectures on Electrogravitics. The triangles are not that important for they are more like the B-2. There is a disk that cruises at MACK 64 (54,000 mph) and in the STS-48 video it makes a right turn and jumps to over 400,000 mph in about 3 seconds. When I have the STS-48 video copy I will post it. Jess
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Corso's book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:57:40 -0400 Subject: Corso's book Damn. I never meant to buy it. I just thought I'd sit and read it in the bookstore, to see what it was like. But it turned out to be more substantial, more dubious, and more just plain quirky than I expected, so I had to have a copy. Here's what's in it. The central UFO theme is a lot more detailed and newer than anyone has yet suggested here. But there's a smorgasbord of UFO references -- Roswell, abductions, the autopsy film, cattle mutilations, MJ-12 -- so random and incoherent you can easily suspect they were tossed in by someone who didn't really know the UFO literature, to give a manufactured story credibility. And that's not all. Corso makes claims about non-UFO history -- the U-2 incident and the Cuban Missile Crisis -- that are, shall we say, at variance with the usuaul accounts. It turns out, in fact, that even in non-UFO terms Corso is a key figure in postwar events, and, if we factor in his alleged UFO role, he becomes one of the most important people in the 20th century. Though to give him credit, he's modest about his stature and in fact says that the importance of his work hadn't even occured to him until he sat down to write what apparently (he's not entirely clear about this) was originally going to be quite a different memoir. If I've read him correctly on this last point, of course, then Thurmond's staff might be right when they say they originally had an outline with nothing in it about UFOs. However, Corso says in the book that Thurmond knew the UFO secret, so Thurmond was going to be involved with the book whether he wrote the foreword or not. To discuss some of these points in greater detail: The key to Corso's UFO information is the title of the book -- "The Day After Roswell." This refers to something initially quite limited, and fascinating -- what happened to the crash debris. Corso says that it initially got scattered scientific study, some of which led to the development of the transitor. But then it languished, until the early '60s when Corso went to work for a foreign technology unit of the army. His superior asked him to look at the stuff, and suggest what might be done with it. Corso's report (I'm leaving out all the "supposedly"s here, to save wear and tear on my typing fingers) led to an ingenious project, in which suggestive bits of alien stuff were funneled into private-industry research projects that were already used to getting terrestrial foreign technology, and not asking questions about it. That is, one week they'd get parts from a crashed Soviet jet. The next week they'd get something alien. They wouldn't be told what either thing was. The point here was to keep the work secret by NOT starting a massive new project -- and, by the way, to cover the tracks of any alien-based technological developments. This sounds plausible to me, though I'd be quick to stress I don't have the military or intellgence background for my assesssment to mean much. One key to the plan was that security was just as important as information. That's why a full-bore study wasn't unleashed from the start. Corso's full story of the aliens includes more than this -- they're hostile, for instance, and they're genetically-engineered creatures, optimized for space travel. And it has a grand and glorious conclusion. After alien technology helped create night vision equipment and lasers, among much else, it finally helped us build particle-beam weaponry that -- when deployed as part of Reagan's Star Wars program -- not only brought the cold war to an end, but brought about a stalemate with the aliens, whose UFOs could now be shot down! Corso somewhat fudges the extent of his involvement with this, since he left the army shortly after setting the initial project in motion (though his fudging may just be a reflection of a general carelessness that afflicts much of the narrative). Still, if this is where his work led, he's a hero -- clearly, as the man who set us on the path of miltiary equality with an alien invading force, one of the great heroes of our time. One passing thought: We've read here that somebody traced the development of the transistor through patents and articles in scientific journals, and found every step accounted for, thus proving, supposedly, that alien technology wasn't involved. Corso suggests that the project was set up to create precisely this impression. Besides -- and here I'm speaking for myself -- patents and journal articles don't record where engineers and scientists get their ideas. If somebody's thinking is stimulated by a fragment of an alien TV set, they still have to theorize and experiment to imitate the thing -- and it's those theories and experiments that show up in published data, not the inspiration for them. So what about Corso's non-UFO heroism? This, friends and fellow ufologists, is a doozy. Corso takes personal credit for U.S. resistance to Soviet missiles in Cuba. I'm not exaggerating. Corso says he had photographs clearly showing the missles, and says that he knew President Kennedy wasn't going to do anything about it. So he leaked the information to Senator Kenneth Keating of New York, and, most crucially, to a reporter -- and says that it was the reporter's articles that forced Kennedy to act! Needless to say, you can't find this in standard histories. Keating, it's true, sounded an early alarm; that I could document. But -- while Corso is in synch with standard histories when he says the CIA didn't believe that Soviet ICBMs were in Cuba -- the usual story depicts a steady buildup of data within the Kennedy administration that quickly persuaded Kennedy to act. Corso also appears out to lunch when he reproduces quotes from phone conversations between Eisenhower and Soviet premier Khrushchev about the U-2 flights that eventually would wreck a US-Soviet summit meeting. Corso seems to say (again, the sloppy tracking of details throughout the book makes this hard to be sure about) that his source is a buddy in the KGB, and he's correct, according to standard histories, to say that Eisenhower was dubious about the flights, and that the USSR knew all about them, even before they shot one down. But that Khruschchev and Eisenhower ever talked about it before the shooting, and even that they ever talked on the phone, is, um, new. You won't find any reference to it in the standard Stephen Ambrose biography of Eisenhower, or in Khrushchev's memoirs. For what it's worth, the hot line between the White House and the Kremlin wasn't even installed till the '60s. There's also a hint somewhere about the CIA plotting Kennedy's assassination. Nothing more on the subject. And everything in the book is buried in a subtext right out of a spy novel. The CIA (which follows Corso around Washington to see what he's up to) is shipping secrets to the Russians. Nevertheless, an unstated bond between the CIA and the KGB adds a touch of stability to US-Soviet relations, and Corso quite happily makes deals with the Soviet military, which hates the KGB. On one memorable page he even gets photocopies smuggled out of the Soviet embasssy -- the point being to find out exactly what secrets the CIA has revealed! Thurmond? The reference to his secret knowledge is brief, and just a bit coy. I can't find it, for the moment, and the book has no index. But in essence it's this. Corso finds his superior, General Arthur Trudeau, talking to Thurmond. Thurmond says something about "them," and Corso understands that "they" are the aliens. If that's all he has to go on, you might wonder why he's so sure. but he does state outright that Thurmond knew. UFO data? What a mishmash. The book begins, in fact, with an account of the Roswell crash, complete with reconstructed dialogue. It reads like fiction -- or, to give a proper UFO antecedent, like one of Keyhoe's books, though the facts Keyhoe alleged always checked out. Maybe to give himself an out, Corso says he's heard many versions of the crash story, and that this is just one of them. As we've read here, Major Jesse Marcel is on hand at the crash site, overseeing the recovery of the body of the craft, and the aliens. That's at variance with standard Roswell accounts, which, as Dennis Stacy has pointed out, leave us wondering why Marcel wasn't there, or, if he was, why he never talked about it afterwards. But there's more. A sentry shoots an alien that starts to move, and there are named witnesses heretofore unknown (or at least not listed in the indexes of the standard Roswell books). Who's Steve Arnold? Corso says he rode shotgun on one of the staff cars heading for the recovery site, and was the first to disembark. Who's Roy Danzer, a plumbing subcontractor who was fitting pipe at the base, and saw the recovery convoy arriving with the alien bodies, one of which Danzer saw? Corso mentions the members of MJ-12, without naming the organization. He says the aliens have six fingers; that's from the autopsy film. He's confusing on abductions. I've said that much in this book isn't clear, and the abduction references go to the front (or rear) of the pack. It's hard to tell, but Corso does seem to state that abductions were known in the '50s and known to be widespread in the '60s, something the UFO literature won't support. (But then Corso might have been referring to secret military data. Who knows?) These UFO references are a mess, basically. Corso at least should have noted where they fit. As in: "Yes, UFO researchers have found these names, and say they were part of a group called MJ-12. I never heard that name, but the group did exist, and these were the guys who ran it." As things stand, every one of these references seems phony, as if Corso (or his ghostwriter) had plucked factoids from various UFO sources, to make the story seem credible. What WOULD make the tale believable? More facts. Backup. Corrobora tion. The book, taken as a whole, is simply weird. Suppose it's fake. Why on earth would Corso, after what appears to have been a distinguished career, smash his reputation for....what, money? Fame? Attention? Why would he say Thurmond knew the secret, when that means Thurmond would certainly be asked, and presumably would deny the whole thing? But then suppose the story is real. Is this how a distinguished military man spills the greatest secret in human history? By hiring a ghostwriter to write an incoherent popular potboiler? Wouldn't a better plan be, first, to make sure the book makes sense, and addresses obvious problems right where they occur, and second to call a press conference, in which supporting evidence and maybe even a supporting witness or two would see the light of day? There's precious little in the book for anyone to work with. Here and there you find a name -- "Dr. Mark Johnson," for instance, identified as an "aeronautical reserach scientst" from Hughes Aircraft, whom Corso says he met at Fort Belvoir, and who knew the alien secret. Does this man exist? And how did Corso emerge from this long history without a single document? All he seems to have are some shadowy photos of UFOs, and even these he says he can't vouch for as genuine. But wait -- there ARE documents! He mentions them in the text, and even quotes from them. For instance, he has a private copy of General Trudeau's apparently unpublished memoirs. He even quotes a paragraph, in which UFOs aren't mentioned. Is that the best he could do? What do the rest of the memoirs say? Would I be right to suspect that UFOs aren't mentioned anywhere in them? And then there are Corso's sharply written reports to Trudeau, which he quotes from liberally. Could we, perhaps, see a page or two? Can we verify that they really were written in the '60s, or that at least they could have been? What security markings do they bear, if any? The book doesn't tell us. Corso also mentions his journals. Can we see them? Can we verify their age? This is getting frustrating -- unless, of course, we simply conclude that the whole thing is bogus, and that we're not seeing these documents because they don't exist. Finally, there's something else. Apparently this secret wasn't very tightly kept. The Soviets knew all about it. Even the Nazis did -- Corso thinks they'd recovered their own alien UFO, and were on the way to learning the aliens' secrets. The ET threat was discussed at National Security Council meetings, he also says, was known about at high levels in all the armed services, and was widely known (or at least rumored) in science and private industry. So where's the evidence for that? Stalin, Corso says, pitched a fit when he heard about Roswell. Are there Kremlin files that say so? And what about the hundreds or thousands of politicians, generals, admirals, Washington insiders, scientists and industrial magnates who knew about the aliens? Surely -- if Corso's book is true, and he's still alive after writing it -- somebody, somewhere, is going to step forward to say that they were there, too. (Delightful fact! Corso's view of the aliens does not support other alleged insiders' reports -- not Bob Lazar's, with its spacecraft fueled by element 115, or William Uhouse's (he being Glenn Campbell's "Jarod II"), with its deal between the ETs and our government: their technology in exchange for a steady supply of boron. Who should we believe?) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #26 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:18:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:14 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #26 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #26 Members = 1448 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Monday 16th June 1997. **************************************** NEW WILTSHIRE FORMATION Rockley Down, Nr Rockley, Wiltshire. Reported June 14th Located on the Marlborough Downs is the latest Wilshire Wonder! **************************************** New English formations in Hampshire. Come and see the latest events on the What's New page. **************************************** New DUTCH Crop Circles After a busy season last year, Holland Crop Circles keep on appearing **************************************** The Complete Dutch Crop Circle Report This covers the sixty formations in Holland last year, with images and Diagrams. A new link added to the Dutch CCCS Homepage **************************************** Crop Circles and the Music Industry by Antony Harding Read about the the latest bands and sounds with a possible connection to Crop Circles Is it band promotion or just coincidence? **************************************** New MPEG Realtime Movie of the DNA Helix By AJ Samuels. Set the controls for the heart of the Double Helix. Journey back in time to East Field in June 1996 **************************************** New SC Magazine Issue 65 June 1997 OUT NOW! **************************************** Link to FATE Magazine website **************************************** All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:32:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:16:28 -0400 >Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:59:29 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >You seriously need a reality check if you believe that Greer's CSETI "people" >have any credibility whatsoever. I don't know who has the bigger portion >of meglomania, you or Greer. Both of you need to get a grip before you >do even more harm to UFOlogy than your delusional rants already have >accomplished. >Christ on a pogo stick! >Don Such bravado, such drama!...Greer certainly has pissed everyone off by presenting himself as a fringe element in ufology. It is no secret that many of his perceptions about UFO/ET are somewhat radical and, in my personal opinion, wrong. What we're seeing here is disdain over something trivial. Concern over detail, specifics, the subjective opinion of what may or may not be true characteristics of the UFO phenomenon. Even though Greer is a bit wierd and many of his assertions about the phenomenon are probably wrong, I do not find this to be a satisfactory reason to detract my support from Project Starlight. This movement seems to have a relatively simple goal. Disclosure. Pure and simple. Something that is enormously important to the scientific examination of the phenomenon and something all ufologists seek to accomplish. Once disclosure is upon us we can sort out all the silly details of the phenomenon that researchers always shred eachother over. The fact that Greer has some wacky ideas about UFO's certainly should not undermine anything the witnesses have to say about what they've seen and what they've experienced. It's the development of this project that is interesting and the number of witnesses that have been identified and are willing to testify. Members of the UFO community failing to support such a proactive movement simply because the do not agree with the dogma presented by it's coordinator seems a bit rediculous. Especially those who insist that such a movement will "sabotage" ufology. All this mindless disdain is silly. I'll support anyone that rounds up reliable witnesses that promise to bear their soul under Congressional aegis. I don't care who coordinates it. If MUFON wants to approach Congress next year with some of their witnesses, I'll be happy to support them. If the Cub Scouts of America want to try the year after that then I'll support them to. Talk is cheap and I'm tired of it. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Lights In Sky From: "David Butterfield" <BUTTERDA@mail.cit.ac.nz> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:30:04 +1200 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:22:27 -0400 Subject: Lights In Sky Greetings List Just the other week, in my small New Zealand home town of Paraparaumu, several bright lights were seen to crash into the hills at the back of the town. Witnesses claim that the objects changed colour and exploded when they crashed, yet when searched for, nothing was found. A week before that a plane crashed in the same area. And towards the end of last year, several lights were seen to fly around Kapiti Island. I myself have seen dim lights that moved very fast and changed direction very quickly. Just thought it would interest you, David Butterfield
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Petitioners Unite ! - Freely distribute From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:31:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:40:34 -0400 Subject: Petitioners Unite ! - Freely distribute PETITIONERS UNITE ! Amidst all the brouhaha about the release of recent research into the events at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 ONE significant, major, fundamental point has been lost - the OBJECTIVE of the so called "Roswell Petition." Ask yourself the following two questions: 1. What is that objective? Answer: To obtain an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. 2. What does it actually have to do with resolving the nature of the events that took place in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947? Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!! Now let us examine in detail what the objective was: [the text below is take verbatim from the "Roswell Declaration"] - start of quotation - History has shown that unsubstantiated official assurances or denials by government are often meaningless. Nevertheless, there is a logical and straightforward way to ensure that the truth about Roswell will emerge: an Executive Order declassifying any information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. Because this is a unique issue of universal concern, such an action would be appropriate and warranted. To provide positive assurance for all potential witnesses, it would need to be clearly stated and written into law. Such a measure is essentially what presidential candidate Jimmy Carter promised and then failed to deliver to the American people eighteen years ago in 1976. If, as is officially claimed, no information on Roswell, UFOs, or extraterrestrial intelligence is being withheld, an Executive Order declassifying it would be a mere formality, as there would be nothing to disclose. The Order would, however, have the positive effect of setting the record straight once and for all. Years of controversy and suspicion would be ended, both in the eyes of the United States' own citizens and in the eyes of the world. If, on the other hand, the Roswell witnesses are telling the truth and information on extraterrestrial intelligence does exist, it is not something to which a privileged few in the United States Government should have exclusive rights. It is knowledge of profound importance to which all people throughout the world should have an inalienable right. Its release would unquestionably be universally acknowledged as an historic act of honesty and goodwill. I support the request, as outlined above, for an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. Whether such information exists or whether it does not, I feel that the people of the world have a right to know the truth about this issue and that it is time to put an end to the controversy surrounding it. - end of quotation - THE OBJECTIVE IS: Over 20,000 people have signed the document to obtain "an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence." The significance of objective is this; the intelligence community was created as a tool of the executive branch of government and is answerable only to the executive branch of government - to the Chief Executive, our President and not any other branch of government. (if you don't understand this statement look up the relevant law and Supreme Court decisions, the website of the Center for the Study of Intelligence also has a scholarly review of the law and decisions which establish this fact). Only through an Executive Order can information be released or members of governmental agencies be give witness to their knowledge of this information without violating security oaths. Petitioners awake! All other issues, research, etc. which distract from this objective are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Roswell, New Mexico exists or doesn't exist for without obtaining this tool, the Executive Order, declassifying information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence there is little likelihood of having this question answered now or in the near future. THEREFORE: I propose that the name of the petition be changed to the: "Sagan Petition" I propose this so as to honor the memory of the scientist who dedicated his scientific career to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. This would remove the petition from the the controversy now associated with the Roswell events. The renaming would garner new positive publicity for the petition and gather perhaps thousand of new supporters and signers. It would allow all parties involved to amicably refocus their energy on the true objective of the petition and allow all to present it to the President, without controversy, and in good faith. Yours truly, Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Please reproduce this essay without change and distribute it throughout the internet and any other medium possible. 3) Send your request via email to the International Roswell Intitiative to change the name of the petition from the "Roswell Petition" to the "Sagan Petition". Their email address is: roswelldec@aol.com 4) Also contact the sponsoring individual and organizations of the International Roswell Initiative with the same request: MUFON; 103 Oldtowne Road; Seguin, TX 78155.U.S.A. CUFOS; 2457W. Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659,U.S.A. FUFOR; Post Office Box 277, Mt.Rainier, Maryland 20712,U.S.A. Kent Jeffrey, 37 Porteous Ave., Fairfax, CA 94930,U.S.A. Joachim Koch, Stadtrandstr. 550 g, 13589 Berlin, Germany Below is a suggested form to email to the organizers of the International Roswell Initiative. As this is a REAL request for modification of the name of the petition, run over the Internet, we need to have stringent rules for signing. Fill in the Name and Address and Email so that the petition organizers will take this seriously. For the most impact, please fill out the form completely. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Request to the organizers of The International Roswell Initiative: I support the request for renaming the Roswell Petition to the Sagan Petition so as to further the goal of obtaining an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. I feel that my objective as a signer of the document originally called the Roswell Petition has been overshrouded by the politicization and controversy associated with the research regarding events in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. However as any student of history is aware the issues of the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence do not hinge on the events in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Therefore all efforts and energy must be directed to obtaining this tool, the Executive Order so that further investigation may proceed. First Name: Last Name: Street: City: State/Prov: Postal Code: Country: Email Address:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Thurmond Was Present At CSETI's Briefing Of From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:57:47 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:49:20 -0400 Subject: Thurmond Was Present At CSETI's Briefing Of The Corso-Thurmond controversy is old news now, but I just stumbled upon a piece of information which indicates that Senator Thurmond was present at CSETI's UFO briefing of the Congress. The e-mail was sent to IUFO's mailing list on May 22, long before the dispute became known to the public on June 5. As it is well known, Thurmond expressed his anger at having been lured into writing a foreword to Corso's alleged disclosure of the Pentagon's UFO cover-up - without knowing the book's actual contents, but thinking that Corso, an old friend and once a member of Thurmond's staff, had written an autobiography on his "ordinary" career. Thurmond seems to be interested in the subject, though, so it is unlikely that he shouldn't have discussed it with Corso, who for many years and in the company of close friends has been quite frank about his UFO experiences. To my mind it seems quite conceivable that the old man (he's over ninety) made a misjudgment and was corrected by his staff. I don't advocate the more outlandish claims of the e-mail, by the way, without further proof. Stig Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Date: Thu, 22 May 97 10:04:16 -0800 Subject: IUFO: Show & Tell To: iufo@world.std.com -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List SHOW and TELL: Latest Revelations on UFOs From Insiders Going Public By Richard Boylan, Ph.D. On April 9, 1997, a closed briefing was given Congressional, White House and other Administration officials on evidence of UFO reality and extraterrestrial presence. A witness revealed that among the dignitaries were Senator Strom Thurmond, Congressman Weingard, and the wife of the CIA Director. Testimony was given by Apollo astronaut Mitchell, Dr. Greer, and two dozen other prime government-insider witnesses. Among those witnesses was Stephen Lovekin, a lawyer from North Carolina who worked with a Top Secret security clearance in the Pentagon during President Eisenhower's White House term during the '50s as a trained cryptologist, and was the military aide who regularly briefed President Eisenhower on UFO evidence and developments. The former military-intelligence official said that Eisenhower became angrier throughout his Presidency, because he was being shut out of the loop about "black technology", reverse-engineered from captured extraterrestrial devices. Lovekin testified that in the basement of the Pentagon, he was shown UFO metal from a downed ET craft, and saw apparent "hieroglyphic"-type ET writing on the metal. Another expert who testifying under oath to the gathered Congressional and White House officials was rocket scientist David Adair, a NASA consultant. Adair stated that he could back up Lovekin's report, because in 1960 he himself was taken 20 stories underground at Area 51 to help figure out how an extraterrestrial engine taken from a UFO worked. On the engine cowling were the identical "hieroglyphic"-like ET symbols which he later saw Lovekin display at the Congressional briefing. Adair said that they eventually identified the UFO device as an electro-magnetic fusion-containment engine. Dr. Greer has learned that one-third of the policy cabal controlling UFO information, a group variously known as MJ-12 and PI-40, wish public disclosure of UFO reality, while the rest do not support such initiative. Additionally, eight National Security insiders, including Navy and Air Force intelligence officers, told Dr. Greer that Star Wars weapons are being used to destroy UFOs approaching Earth. A further glimpse into the military's secretive obsession with UFO technology was provided by retired Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson in late May, 1997, in response to reports of a huge UFO over Phoenix in mid-May. Colonel Wilson, who formerly headed the Air Force's Project Pounce [UFO recovery teams], said that there has been a stringent "lock-down" on Air Force personnel discussing UFOs since January 3, 1994. That was the date the military began publicly flying the enormous Black Triangle antigravity craft, which the Colonel said were back- engineered from UFOs. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA. (916) 455-0120 E-mail: rich.boylan@24stex.com Primary website: www.ufonetwork.com/boylan/ Author of: Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, Labored Journey To The Stars and Project Epiphany. [ Richard Boylan ] Size: 3k File Created: May 22, 1997 Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | iufo |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: rprokic@plinet.com [Roger Prokic] Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:36:30 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:40:30 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 >Note: "Coma-wreck," are you listening? <Evil G> John, isn't this a bit juvenile of you? I don't even know Ed, but I have much more respect for the man than name callers like Mr. Stacy. Let's quit the name calling and get back to the business at hand. Ed Komarek I believe is an honorable and professional person who does a great job of making info public for everyone to chew on. I am one who appreciates what he has done. Mr. Stacy on the other hand sounds like a spoiled brat, very unprofessional, and in my opinion, is an embarrassment to MUFON. Just my 2 cents from a UFO Updates lurker till now. <g> Roger - PalmPilot Pro & HandStamp -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:31:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:47:46 -0400 Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit > From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:36:44 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit --solved?? > >LONDON -- Investigators are baffled by an apparent near-collision > >between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object over > >England. > >The BAe 146, bound for Stansted in eastern England from Dublin, took > >evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red > >aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them north of > >London. > >The jet passed 30 metres above the object two seconds later. A BAe 146 cruising at over 350 knots closing with an object only 100 inches (2.5 meters) long and then getting that description I think is pushing the credibility factor a bit, never mind that the LoFlyte was 3 or 4000 miles out of its operational area. > >The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested > >that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a > >Hawk jet from the Royal Air Force's Red Arrows aerobatics team. Here we have pilots who have likened the object to a Red Arrows Gnat which means they saw wings on it. Being pilots means they meant wings not a delta type aircraft. Most pilots have a personal memory inventory of hundreds if not thousands of aircraft and related aeronautical craft and are highly observant when it comes to other aircraft. > >But searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts failed to find > >another aircraft in the area. > >Britain's Civil Aviation Authority group was set up to examine the > >incident, which happened last June. > >It said yesterday there was no doubt the pilots ``saw something and > >agreed in some detail in their descriptions.'' > It would say that it's highly likely that what these pilot's almost collided > with was the NASA LoFlyte plane. Let's not try to stretch a point to attempt identification. > The Belgium government recently stated that this > plane may have been the culprit for the triangle > sightings in Belgium in 1990. The Belgium government is apparently doing a fine job of trying to get a square peg into a triangular hole by using LoFlyte as a scapegoat. Obviously they have been "brought on board" and will use any excuse to explain away unexplainable UFO reports. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: afoos@fpcc.cc.mt.us (Alan R. Foos) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:18:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:57:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 9:58 PM > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:50:35 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 > Kent Jeffrey wrote: > >Even before the advent of recent negative developments in the > >Roswell case, I have always felt that a UFO would never crash. > Jeffrey stated this to me several times over the past 2 years, > and I've never understood the argument. I find it very unlikely > that either an ET technology or ET's would be infallible. Does > Jeffrey think they are gods? [snip] I've understood that a type of radar used by the government caused UFO navigation to malfunction. This does make sense, though I'm not concerned about the valididy of Roswell. What I'm concerned about is what I know to be true - that the "alien" abductions are real. This should cause grave concern to everyone. Al
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:38:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:20:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici >Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:56 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici Dear Bob, >"Italy's most respected UFO organization according to worldwide UFO >researchers"???? >Depends on WHICH researchers you talk to. You are right, indeed ! It depends on WHICH researchers you talk to .... Anyway I think everybody is able to recognize easily wild, clearly commercial-oriented claims from rigorous on-field activity and data evaluation. All of us have different minds (thanks to God !) and different opinions .... >Since I am affiliated with CUN (Centro Ufologico Nationale) I must >point out that many worldwide UFO researchers consider US to be >Italy's most respected UFO organization. I am surprised to hear you are affiliated with CUN. I wonder if you ever read their mags or attended their conferences (not necessarily the latest San Marino one), both in ITALIAN language. It would be interesting to know your opinion about that: do you share such a kind of approach ? Anyway, if we wanna play a kid's game, please take note that CISU is very well known and respected outside Italy, at least under a quantitative point of view (OK, maybe somebody could question the qualitative one !). It is enough to list articles published on mags, contributions to books, English-language newsletters, high-level congresses, WWW sites, partecipation to serious UFO mailing list (just like this one), ecc .... Bob, I hope to stop such an useless polemics, as ufology is something very much different from saying "we are better than you" (or just the opposite). I guess UFO Updates subscribers are not very much interested in this things. If you want to reply, please contact me through my private e-mail. With sincere friendship, Maurizio Verga
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Roswell From: glennys mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:07:13 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:53:58 -0400 Subject: Roswell Hello Errol, Having read so much about Roswell, I have just stumbled (figure of speech) on a young chap who's father was THERE at Roswell. He was a Pilot who escorted the President of USA to the sight! I am meeting with him and will have an interview with his Mother who holds all the diaries and information that his father asked them not to release until he died (he died last year) If you are interested I will allow you to break news what ever the relevant information is to the world - how about that. I will get back to you next week. Amazing that he is living in Australia isn't it? regards, Glennys
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Corso Book From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:18:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso Book >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:41:36 -0500 >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Corso Book > Very interesting book. I just heard on a radio station (KCMO-AM KC > Missouri) that Corso is dead. Is that correct? If so, does anyone know > the co-author? Corso, to the best of my knowledge is not dead, unless he died very recently. > If Corso is dead and Birnes wrote the book, then what is written must be > looked at differently. It is second hand and could be subject to > "poetic license" by the co-auhtor. There was an interesting interview done with Corso's co-author Willimam J. Birnes in the June 16, CNI News. To obtain that news report/interview send an email request to CNINews1@aol.com. BTW, there is a lot of publicity scheduled for the book in Roswell during the festivities there [July 1-6]. I've also heard a rumor that Corso will be on Dateline NBC or ABC's 20/20 this coming Friday. I have not been able to confirm this [20/20s program schedule is usually set on the Wednesday before the show and Dateline NBC didn't offer it as a preview of what's coming on Friday's show]. It seems highly likely that all the news magazines will do something on this book and/or Roswell, but I think that it will be in the last week of June/first week of July. Mainly because that is closer to the anniversary date and because Network sweeps start then. Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: xiannekei | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Corso Book From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:57:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:51:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso Book > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:41:36 -0500 > To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Corso Book < snip > > If Corso is dead and Birnes wrote the book, then what is written must be > looked at differently. It is second hand and could be subject to > "poetic license" by the co-auhtor. > Barbara Becker > c549597@showme.missouri.edu Very interesting proposition. By using this logic the Declaration of Indpendence and Constitution are second hand and subject to poetic license; does your logic also apply to legal decisions written by justices of the Supreme Court who are also dead? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:43:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:50:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 Kent Jeffery Wrote: > The Missing Tape > In the last few months, as part of my effort to reconstruct what > happened at Roswell, I have had a number of conversations with > Irving Newton, the weather officer at Fort Worth Army Air Field > who was called in by General Ramey to identify the unusual > debris. The debris was already suspected to be part of some type > of balloon device. Newton told me that he immediately recognized > it as being from an ML-307 radar reflector. An ML-307 was a box > kite-like device covered with a tough, paper-backed foil that was > suspended below balloons or balloon arrays to facilitate radar > tracking. According to Newton, most weather officers, much less > the men at Roswell or Fort Worth, would not have been familiar > with such a device. Newton had worked with the reflectors a > couple of years earlier during the invasion of Okinawa in the > Pacific. The devices were suspended below balloons, released to > gather wind data for use in helping direct heavy naval artillery > fire. > In one of my conversations with Newton, quite by chance, a new > and important revelation came to light. He was describing the > color of the symbols on one of the balsa sticks and mentioned how > it was faint and had somewhat of a mottled appearance because of > "the way that the dye had bled through onto the surface of the > stick." This was a very important piece of information. The > symbols that Newton saw on the debris in Ramey's office were on > the surface of the stick, not on tape! The tape had apparently > peeled away, probably because of several weeks' exposure to > sunlight while it lay out in the desert. This serendipitous > revelation immediately cleared up one of the biggest questions in > my mind about the Roswell case -- how could Jesse Marcel, Sr., or > Jesse Marcel, Jr., for that matter, not have recognized flower > patterns on tape? The answer is now crystal clear. The symbols > they saw were not on tape. What they saw were images of the > original symbols from the dye that had bled through before the > tape had peeled away. Jesse, Jr.'s testimony about the symbols > definitely not being on tape was absolutely correct. I would like to talk a little about Irving Newton. In _The Roswell Incident_ Page 38 Newton is asked: Can you describe the fabric? Was it easy to tear? He answered: Certainly. You would have to be careful not to tear it. The metal involved was likely an extremely thin alcoa wrap. It was very flimsy. Kent Jeffery says that Newton describes the material as "a box kite-like device covered with a tough, paper-backed foil that was suspended below balloons or balloon arrays to facilitate radar tracking." This is interesting. In one instance, he describes the material as very weak, in another exactly the opposite! In _The Roswell Incident_ Newton says that he found out after he left Ramey's office that the material was supposedly from a flying saucer. In the 1994 Air Force report he enters the office, giggles, and asks if this is the "flying saucer". In _The Roswell Incident_ version of his testimony, there is nothing mentioned about Major Marcel trying to convince Newton the debris was strange. In _The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell_ Newton is quoted as saying that Major Marcel was showing him parts of the wreckage, and asking if they were on a normal balloon. In the 1994 Air Force Report, Newton says that Marcel was trying to convince him that the debris had alien writing on them. Finally, Newton offers 2 versions of the order Ramey gave him over the phone while he was at the Weather Office. "get your ass over here now. Use a car and if you have to, take the first one with keys in it." or "Get your ass over here in ten minutes. If you can't get a car commandeer the first one that comes along- on my orders." Can we really consider Newton reliable at all? He's given us some pretty different accounts of what happened. I don't think this can all be explained by memory error. Perhaps the Ramey quotes can, but the other stuff is pretty cut and dry. Newton's testimony has changed in some major ways! Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Time: New Roswell Explanation (Weaver) From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 09:28:11 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:32:05 -0400 Subject: Time: New Roswell Explanation (Weaver) >Subject: Explanation of "New Roswell Explanation" rumors >To: alt.alien.visitors >From latest issue of _Time_ (you can find it on the web through ><http://pathfinder.com/> ----- >Later this month, the Air Force will release the results of its second >study, launched after UFOlogists complained that its 1994 report did >not address the issue of alien bodies. ("It seemed rational to us," >explains the Air Force's Weaver, "that since we proved there were no >UFOs, it automatically meant no aliens.") >For a few years after 1947, the report will explain, the Air Force >conducted experiments that involved dropping dummies from high-altitude >balloons to study the results of the impact. Witnesses' descriptions of >the "aliens," the Air Force notes, closely match the characteristics of >the dummies: 3 1/2 ft. to 4 ft. tall, bluish skin coloration and no >ears, hair, eyebrows or eyelashes. >"What quite likely happened," says Weaver, "is that people who saw >these dummies mistook them for aliens." And, he notes, because no >mention of aliens was made until 1978, those "who were interviewed were >trying to recall events that took place 30 years earlier." Weaver >blames UFOlogists for "linking" these sightings, which occurred after >1947, to the original Roswell incident. If you buy that, I've got some nice property in Brooklyn for sale -- Cheap! Bob P.S.: Does it seem to anybody else that the Air Force is grasping at straws here? Does this seem like part of a "debunk at all costs" strategy? Does it sound like an act of desperation? BTW, are they going to tell us that one of these dummies is what is sliced and diced in the AA film?????
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Congressmen E-Mail List of adresses From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:17:49 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:42:42 -0400 Subject: Congressmen E-Mail List of adresses Hello. The list below may be useful to some of you. Sincerely, P.H.Andrade. [list sorted by state] U.S. REPRESENTATIVES PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSTITUENT ELECTRONIC MAIL SYSTEM. (If your Representative is not yet on-line, please be patient.) Hon. Sonny Callahan AL01 CALLAHAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Terry Everett AL02 EVERETT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Robert (Bud) Cramer AL05 BUDMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jay Dickey AR04 JDICKEY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Matt Salmon AZ01 SALMON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Ed Pastor AZ02 ED.PASTOR@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Kolbe AZ05 JIMKOLBE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. J.D. Hayworth AZ06 AZ06@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Frank Riggs CA01 REPRIGGS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Lynn Woolsey CA06 WOOLSEY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. George Miller CA07 GMILLER@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Nancy Pelosi CA08 SF.NANCY@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Lantos CA12 LEACH.IA01@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Pete Stark CA13 PETEMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Anna Eshoo CA14 ANNAGRAM@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tom Campbell CA15 CAMPBELL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Zoe Lofgren CA16 ZOEGRAM@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sam Farr CA17 SAMFARR@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Buck McKeon CA25 TELLBUCK@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jane Harman CA36 JHARMAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. George Brown CA42 TALK2GEB@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Christopher Cox CA47 CHRISCOX@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Brian Bilbray CA49 BILBRAY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. David Skaggs CO02 SKAGGS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Mark Schaefer CO06 REP.DAN.SCHAEFER@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sam Gejdenson CT02 BOZRAH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Christopher Shays CT04 CSHAYS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Michael Castle DE00 DELAWARE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Cliff Stearns FL06 CSTEARNS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Michael Bilirakis FL09 TRUEREP@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Charles Canady FL12 CANADY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Dave Weldon FL15 FLA15@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Peter Deutsch FL20 PDEUTSCH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Alcee Hastings FL23 HASTINGS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Mac Collins GA03 REP3MAC@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Newt Gingrich GA06 GEORGIA6@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bob Barr GA07 BBARR@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Saxby Chambliss GA08 SAXBY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Charlie Norwood GA10 GA10@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Linder GA11 JLINDER@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Neil Abercrombie HI01 NEIL@ABERCROMBIE.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Leach IA01 LEACH.IA01@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Nussle IA02 NUSSLEIA@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Greg Ganske IA04 GANSKE@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tom Latham IA05 LATHAM@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Helen Chenoweth ID01 ASKHELEN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bobby Rush IL01 BRUSH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Luis Gutierrez IL04 LUISG@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Jerry Costello IL12 JFCIL12@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Harris Fawell IL13 HFAWELL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Dennis Hastert IL14 DHASTERT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. David McIntosh IN02 MCINTOSH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tim Roemer IN03 TROEMER@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Hostettler IN08 JOHNHOST@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Lee Hamilton IN09 HAMILTON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Pat Roberts KS01 EMAILPAT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Todd Tiahrt KS04 TIAHRT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Edward Whitfield KY01 EDKY01@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Bunning KY04 BUNNING4@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim McCrery LA04 MCCRERY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Martin Meehan MA05 MTMEEHAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Joe Moakley MA09 JMOAKLEY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Robert Ehrlich MD02 EHRLICH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Benjamin Cardin MD03 CARDIN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Baldacci ME02 BALDACCI@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Peter Hoekstra MI02 TELLHOEK@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Vernon Ehlers MI03 REP.EHLERS@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Dave Camp MI04 DAVECAMP@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Fred Upton MI06 TALK2FSU@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Nick Smith MI07 REPSMITH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Dale Kildee MI09 DKILDEE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Lyn Rivers MI13 LRIVERS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Conyers MI14 JCONYERS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Gil Gutknecht MN01 GIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. David Minge MN02 DMINGE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jim Ramstad MN03 MN03@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bruce Vento MN04 VENTO@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Martin Sabo MN05 MARTIN.SABO@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. William Luther MN06 TELL.BILL@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Collin Peterson MN07 TOCOLLIN.PETERSON@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Oberstar MN08 OBERSTAR@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Talent MO02 REP.TALENT@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Richard Gephardt MO03 GEPHARDT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. JoAnn Emerson MO08 JEMERSON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Roger Wicker MS01 RWICKER@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bennie Thompson MS02 MS2ND@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Richard Burr NC05 MAIL2NC5@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sue Myrick NC09 MYRICK@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Cass Ballenger NC10 CASSMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Charles Taylor NC11 CHTAYLOR@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Mel Watt NC12 MELMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Earl Pomeroy ND00 EPOMEROY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Jon Christensen NE02 TALK2JON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Charles Bass NH02 CBASS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Robert Andrews NJ01 RANDREWS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Frank LoBiondo NJ02 LOBIONDO@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bob Franks NJ07 FRANKSNJ@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Rodney Frelinghuysen NJ11 NJELEVEN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bill Richardson NM03 BILLNM03@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Ensign NV01 ENSIGN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Michael Forbes NY01 MPFORBES@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Rick Lazio NY02 LAZIO@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Peter King NY03 PETER.KING@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Thomas Manton NY07 TMANTON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jerrold Nadler NY08 NADLER@HR.HOUSE. Hon. Susan Molinari NY13 MOLINARI@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Charles Rangel NY15 RANGEL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jose Serrano NY16 JSERRANO@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Eliot Engel NY17 ENGELINE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Nita Lowey NY18 NITAMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sue Kelly NY19 DEARSUE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Michael McNulty NY21 MMCNULTY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sherwood Boehlert NY23 BOEHLERT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Walsh NY25 JWALSH@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Maurice Hinchey NY26 HINCHEY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bill Paxon NY27 BPAXON@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Rob Portman OH02 PORTMAIL@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sherrod Brown OH13 SHERROD@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Deborah Pryce OH15 PRYCE15@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Traficant OH17 TELLJIM@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. J.C. Watts OK04 REP.JCWATTS@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Ernest Istook OK05 ISTOOK@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Elizabeth Furse OR01 FURSEOR1@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Peter DeFazio OR04 PDEFAZIO@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Curt Weldon PA07 CURTPA7@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Kanjorski PA11 PAUL.KANJORSKI@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Murtha PA12 MURTHA@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jon Fox PA13 JONFOX@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Paul McHale PA15 MCHALE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. John Spratt SC05 JSPRATT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Clyburn SC06 JCLYBURN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. J.J. Duncan TN02 JJDUNCAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Van Hilleary TN04 HILLEARY@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bob Clement TN05 CLEMENT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Bart Gordon TN06 BART@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Sam Johnson TX03 SAM.TX03@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Lloyd Doggett TX10 DOGGETT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tom DeLay TX22 THEWHIP@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Martin Frost TX24 FROST@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Ken Bentsen TX25 BENTSEN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Gene Green TX29 GGREEN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon.Owen Pickett VA02 OPICKETT@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Robert Goodlatte VA06 TALK2BOB@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Moran VA08 JIM.MORAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Rick Boucher VA09 NINTHNET@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tom Davis VA11 TOMDAVIS@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Rick White WA01 REPWHITE@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Linda Smith WA03 ASKLINDA@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Jennifer Dunn WA08 DUNNWA08@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Mark Neumann WI01 MNEUMANN@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Scott Klug WI02 BADGER02@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Gerald Kleczka WI04 JERRY4W@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Tom Barrett WI05 TELLTOM@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Thomas Petri WI06 TOMPETRI@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. James Sensenbrenner WI09 SENSEN09@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Robert Wise WV02 BOBWISE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Hon. Nick Rahall WV03 NRAHALL@HR.HOUSE.GOV COMMITTEES OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PARTICIPATING IN THE ELECTRONIC MAIL SYSTEM Helsinki Commission HL00 CSCE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Committee on Resources II00 RESOURCE@HR.HOUSE.GOV Committee on Science SY00 SCIENCE.COMMITTEE@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Committee on Science, SY00 SCIENCE.MINORITY@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV Minority ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PARTICIPATING IN THE ELECTRONIC MAILSYSTEM House Document Room Rm. B18 Ford House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515 HDOCS@HR.HOUSE.GOV COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS You can send comments about our service to the Constituent Electronic Mail System Comment mailbox, at COMMENTS@HR.HOUSE.GOV We will make every effort to integrate suggestions into forthcoming updates of our system. Please note, that the intended purpose of this mailbox is to support public inquiry about the House Constituent Electronic Mail System. Messages intended for Members of Congress should be sent directly to the appropriate Member of Congress at their electronic mail or postal address. UPDATES AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION To learn more about information available electronically from the House, send an e-mail message to HOUSEHLP@HR.HOUSE.GOV _________________________ Updated January 29, 1997. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Kent's Statistics Invalid From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 08:30:48 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:31:01 -0400 Subject: Kent's Statistics Invalid >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 I submitted the full text of Kent Jeffrey's article to a friend of mine who runs a top statistical analysis firm. Since his company does statistical analysis for Fortune 500 corporations, he is not interested in getting connected with the UFO field, and asked me for confidentiality. Here is his response to Kent's arguments about the statistics of UFO crashes. Bob Shell >Well, Bob---this is not the typical email I get across my desk everyday! But >interesting; very interesting. Actually, there ARE grounds for disputing the >"statistical" claim you sent me. I never really thought much about this until >THIS moment,----ok, here goes: >First, the statistical anti-UFO argument ASSUMES (and this is very important) >that Roswell was an UNplanned crash; has that in itself ever been truly >documented in the first place? I doubt it. In other words, maybe it was MEANT to >land; the "crash" was made to look that way for political (?) reasons, military >strategy, etc....who knows? ...or perhaps it was a PLANNED crash for other >reasons---why must we feel that we must understand the "reasons" for everything? >There is NO KNOWN WAY to measure the intentions of any UFO pilots, just pure >speculation. If any of the above is true, it immediately blows any statistical >approach, since the entire statistical argument you forwarded to me is based on >the premise of an UNplanned crash. >Second, the statistical laws are based on OUR experience, OUR normal curves, >OUR mathematical proofs all calculated within OUR limited knowledge of the >known universe. In dealing with supernatural speeds, etc., that we know little >or nothing about, how can we be SURE that the formulae apply at all in these >supernatural cases? That would be a very closed-minded view; i.e., OUR >known-universe "laws" are the only ones that can apply in any circumstance? >That can NOT be conclusively proven by our very own (limited) scientific laws! >Tied to the above, while advancing technology creates higher reliability >(HA!!! ...tell it to my new Windows95 machine: $4,000 worth of 4 gig HEADACHES; >still not right after two months!!! Thanks, Bill Gates...); the tasks being >asked of a ufo technology are beyond our comprehension. In other words, the >linear correlation of technology versus reliability may be "out of limits" of >the function (no pun intended!). Statistical functions only work correctly >WITHIN ranges of documented experience---ANY professional scientist (or good >grad student) working with math functions, and particularly statistical >analysis knows this. In a scientific or corporate research setting, you can get >in A LOT OF TROUBLE applying linear or non-linear functions to cases OUTSIDE of >the realm of historical limits and making predictions or correlation forecasts >from such functions. UFO's are CLEARLY outside the range of earthly/known >universe historical limits. Considering the potential modes of travel, speeds >and distances we are talking about; it is doubtful (but still INconclusive) >that our "laws" of statistics be applied to such cases.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:27:43 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:18:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >>Date: 16 Jun 97 09:48:53 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffery's [sic] Debunking Article In The >>MUFON Journal >Hi Bob, >> In his latest newsletter Phil Klass comes down hard on me for being >> critical of Kent Jeffrey. Here is what Phil says: > [snipped] >That's not all he came down on you hard for -- you left out the last part >of what Phil had to say about you: >_A_ _CASE_ _OF_ _"SOUR GRIPES?"_ Shell's harsh comments may stem from >the >fact that Jeffrey was one of the first Roswell crashed-saucer proponents to >publicly denounce the Santilli film as a hoax in 1995 while Shell was >strongly endorsing its authenticity. For example, on Aug. 28, 1995, Shell >said there was a "95% probablility that the film was manufactured, exposed >and processed in 1947... I know who the cameraman is, I know where he is." >Shell's reluctance to denounce SCAM as a hoax recalls the sage observation of >French philosopher Charles Peguy: "He who does not bellow the truth when he >knows the truth make himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." >Sounds like a nice way to call you a PR Flak, no? >> As you found when you read it, Ed, it is simple debunkery, >> and not very sophisticated debunkery at that. Are we to >> believe that Kent was really a serious, dedicated Roswell >> researcher and then had his mind changed by this puny >> "evidence"? I think not. My advice to others is read it. It's >> pretty widely available now. And if this reads like someone >> who has had a serious change-of-heart (to borrow Phil's hyphens), >> then so be it. But if, instead, it reads like a debased attempt to >> throw road blocks in front of serious disclosure and research, all >> should join in your call on Jeffrey to remove himself from the >> issue at once. He can only do harm now. >So you don't think Kent was serious... do you have any idea? I'm going out >on a limb here, because I don't really know what these guys will say, but I >wonder what the other serious Roswell researchers will have to say about >Kent? >Kevin Randle, I'm positive that you will disagree with Kent's conclusion, >but do you think Kent was serious? Do you think he is controlled by som >evil-alphabet soup agency? Of course I disagree with his conclusions. I see that he accuses us of selective use of the data and then does exactly that. I think we can challenge each of his points without too much trouble. Yes, I think he is serious, though I hesitate to say anything positive about him. This should not reflect on Kent but more on Don Schmitt. After the magazine article accused Schmitt of being dishonest, I wrote a long letter defending him, read it to him and he thanked me. Not once did he suggest that I might want to hang on to it. He left me twisting in the wind. However, I don't think that Kent is dishonest nor do I believe he is a government agent. I just think he's wrong on this point. What I'm appalled at is not Kent's article but those who think it should be suppressed. Hey, this is America where we have the right to say any damn thing we want. I might not like it, but Kent has the right to say it, just as I have the right to ignore it, refute it, and challenge it. If we don't like what he says, let's prove him wrong rather than try to bury his work. KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Vol. 2, No.24 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:42:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:01:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Vol. 2, No.24 >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:19:56 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Vol. 2, No.24 >Regarding the following excerpt from >UFO ROUNDUP Vol 2, Number 24 ... >> From: Masinaigan@aol.com >> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:36:40 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 24 >> [snip ...] >> CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN >> OVER SARNIA, ONTARIO >> [snip ...] >> "The object was a long tube-like shape, rounded >> at both ends, and fuzzy or diffuse around all edges. >> it was suspended vertically and its apparent size was >> about one inch or so along its vertical axis and >> perhaps 3/8 (of an) inch across its lateral axis." Brian writes, >The woodcut shows, among other bizarre things, long >apparently transparent tubes with spheres, some spheres >inside in the tubes, some spheres emerging from the >tubes, and some spheres outside. If the Nuremburg and >Ontario objects are indeed the same, the responsible >source has truly been around for quite awhile, >historically speaking. >-Brian Cuthbertson Hello Brian, hi All, Not sure if it's still 'up & available' but Tim Edwards has captured these 'long white cylinders' on videotape! The stills and footage are available for viewing or download at the Ovni Chapterhouse website. In fact they have a few different cases involving these 'tubes' and all are documented on film or video. The Chapterhouse has long been my favorite haunt for the latest news & pix on the latest sightings out west. OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm Brian speculates, "...the responsible source has truly been around for quite awhile, historically speaking." Yup! Some consider the Bible to be the first UFO/ET database! A Roman General, (I forget his name, let's just call him, *Biggus Dickus!) reported a battlefield overflight of 'burning shields', ... and then there is that (15th century ?) painting which depicts the Madonna and child along with a 'UFO' floating in the background sky and this guy standing on a distant hillside pointing, and looking up at it with his back to the viewer ... or the 'Vimana' (vehicles of the Gods) spoken of in the Bhagavad Gita, and painted on the walls of ancient Indian temples, etc., etc., etc. John Velez ============ * Monty Pythons, "The Life of Brian." Worth a trip to Blockbuster! If you're one of the few remaining holdouts who hasen't seen this little gem of a movie, you really should treat yourself to it. Without giving too much away,... It's about the life of a poor ordinary sod from 'old Jerusalem'(at the time of Christ) whose mother earns a living by 'orally' servicing the common Roman soldiery, and who is himself mistaken for Jesus by the Three Wise Men and again later in his life by a hoard of roaming "followers in search of the Messiah." Not to mention, "Biggus Dickus" and his lovely wife, "Incontinentia Buttocks" both of whom are close friends of Pontius Pilot who suffers from a horrible lisp. "Crucifixion? Good,...on the right, one cross each, let's keep a neat single file please." Oh, and there's a UFO and ET's in it! :) * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** ********************* Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | brianc |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Corso Book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 09:28:12 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso Book >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:41:36 -0500 >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Corso Book >Very interesting book. I just heard on a radio station (KCMO-AM KC >Missouri) that Corso is dead. Is that correct? If so, does anyone know >the co-author? Corso dead???? I sure hope not. I spoke yesterday afternoon with a former presidentai science advisor who knows Corso, and we were planning to set up an interview. He was certainly under the impression yesterday that Corso was very much alive. Has anyone else heard anything about this? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 09:28:14 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:40:29 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:50:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >I have nothing against Kent Jeffrey, but dumb debunking arguments are just >dumb debunking arguments. >David Rudiak Good post Dave! I've been saying the above for some time, but not many wanted to listen because I was talking about the Alien Autopsy film. Kent showed his true colors back then, but since he was still pro-Roswell at the time, not many were willing to see how intellectually bankrupt he was -- and is. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Corso's Co-Writer Says Thurmond Knew About The From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:31:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:22:59 -0400 Subject: Corso's Co-Writer Says Thurmond Knew About The In a recent interview with CNI News' Michael Lindemann Corso's co-writer William H. Birnes confirms that Thurmond knew about the contents of the book. Quote: CNI News -- Vol. 3, No. 7, Part 1 -- June 16, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence CO-AUTHOR OF BOMBSHELL ROSWELL BOOK SPEAKS OUT William Birnes on Himself, UFOs, Impressions of Col. Corso [CNI News thanks William J. Birnes, co-author (with Col. Philip Corso) of the new bombshell book "The Day After Roswell," for this exclusive interview in which he discusses his involvement with the book and his candid impressions of the man behind the story, Col. Philip Corso.] (snip) CNI: Senator Strom Thurmond, who wrote the foreword to the book, told the Associated Press on June 5 that he was not properly informed on the content of the book and now wants to distance himself from it. According to the press statement, Thurmond was told that the book was to be a memoir titled "I Walked with Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence," and that there was "'absolutely no mention, suggestion or indication' that the book dealt with UFOs and a government conspiracy to hide the existence of such space vehicles." On learning the actual content of the book, Thurmond stated that "I did not, and would not, pen the foreword to a book about, or containing, a suggestion that the success of the United States in the Cold War is attributable to the technology found on a crashed UFO." Mr. Birnes, how do you respond to these statements? WB: I want to set the record straight on this. I've read a number of articles in which Thurmond's staff has cited a book entitled "I Walked with Giants" as the book for which the senator claims to have written the foreword. This is patently incorrect. The truth is that the foreword the senator wrote for Phil Corso's first manuscript "I Walked with Giants" was returned to him by Col. Corso, who requested that he write a NEW foreword for his book "The Day After Roswell." Col. Corso spoke to Senator Thurmond in person in DC and told him what he was writing in "The Day After Roswell," and that he was even including an anecdote about [the senator] in the book. Senator Thurmond agreed to write the new foreword -- which he did -- and sent it to Corso. I have copies of both forewords as well as Thurmond's signed release to use his new foreword in "The Day After Roswell." It's quite possible that, for whatever reason, Senator Thurmond's staff never realized that the senator had agreed to write a foreword for a book about UFOs and the military's harvest of alien technology. But the senator did agree, and we have his signed release." But all of the interview is interesting, so it would be shame if I didn't bring you the rest, especially for those who, like myself, anxiously are waiting for a copy. I am not violating any copyright rules, by the way, as CNI News itself in its copyright notice says: "In general, electronic posting or redistribution of single articles or short excerpts from CNI News will be approved, provided credit is given to the author and CNI News in every instance. Hard copy (paper) reproduction and redistribution of CNI News, in whole or part, for educational purposes is permitted." CNI News: Please tell us a little about your background: schooling, profession, military involvement, other publications -- anything you'd like our readers to know about you. William Birnes: I'm a 52-year-old writer, editor, book publisher, and literary rights agent in New York and Los Angeles. I write mostly true crime, but have done some celebrity books and sports biographies. By training, I'm an academic with a Ph.D. in Medieval Literature and Linguistics from N.Y.U. I taught English and Linguistics on both undergraduate and graduate levels for many years at what is now called the College of New Jersey. When I taught there it was called Trenton State College. I have been an NEH fellow and an NEH grants judge. I've never served in the military. CNI: How would you describe your orientation to the UFO subject? Prior to working with Corso, were you familiar with UFO research and lore? Did you have a personal opinion on the "reality" of UFOs as unusual aircraft of possibly non-human origin? WB: I was a UFO literary and movie"fan" with a cursory background into the research. I'd read Kevin Randle and Stan Friedman, saw all the relevant documentaries, knew the lore of Roswell and spoken with people in Roswell who had claimed to have knowledge of the 1947 incident. I had heard "stories" about a group called MJ-12 and, of course, read about it in books, but had no direct knowledge of it. I'd spoken to some pilots who's claimed to have had encounters and had heard stories about UFOs in Mexico and Brazil. But I had no direct knowledge of any UFO encounters except through second-hand or third-hand sources. CNI: How did you come to collaborate with Col. Corso on this project? When did your collaboration begin and how did it develop? WB: I was brought to Col. Corso by a Los Angeles motion picture company that was working with him on his World War II and Korean War Army Intelligence experiences. I was particularly interested in writing a book with him on his tour of duty in Rome when he managed to arrange for the escape of a Jewish displaced war refugee camp from Rome to Palestine right under the noses of the British and the Soviet NKVD units operating in Rome. But after developing a book outline for this, I learned about Col. Corso's experiences as a member of the U.S. Senate Internal Security subcommittee in 1963 and his investigation of the Warren Commission (all of it documented) and I really got intrigued. It was only after we'd talked about what kinds of books we wanted to do that [Col. Corso] confided in me that he'd had another job when he was at the Pentagon from 1961-1963 which concerned the development of U.S. weapons technology from "foreign" or "alien" sources. Ultimately, he told me that he had information from the Roswell crash that had been kept in the Army files since 1947 and gradually put into development. When it became his time to take over the files, he was in charge of the anti-missile missile, military applications for the already-in-development laser, a night vision lens, and the high-energy kinetic electron beam. The inspiration for all of these devices, he said, came from files the Army kept on the technology of the devices retrieved from Roswell. The cover for this "alien" technology development was the routine Army weapons development program. He showed me the development histories of these weapons and from what I could see, the cover worked perfectly. Things just seemed to "appear" in development without any previous history. Of course, nobody wrote down anything about Roswell. CNI: What else can you say about Corso's background and overall credibility? WB: Phil Corso was an Army Intelligence officer trained by the British. His records were covered up by his bosses at the Pentagon because he had made intelligence discoveries (not related to Roswell) that put his life in danger. I have seen some of the classified information he developed and it amounts to nothing less than a "secret history of the United States." I'm almost afraid to talk [about] some of this stuff. But the man is as credible as they come. He was responsible for POW exchanges, had sources deep inside the KGB, fought a real battle for over fifteen years with the CIA, and saved the life of House Speaker McCormick in the hours after JFK was assassinated in Texas. I've even managed to confirm through columnist Paul Scott (now in his 90's, I think) that it was Corso who leaked information about the Soviet IRBMs [intermediate range missiles] in Cuba in 1962 because the president wasn't going to do anything about them. Corso's as real as they come. CNI: While you worked with Corso, was there any point at which your own sense of reality was challenged by his claims? If so, what caused that to happen for you? WB: I was frankly amazed at the matter-of-fact way in which Corso recounted the day-to-day operations of slipping alien technology into the R&D units of large corporations. His facile way of dealing with large companies through the offices of General Trudeau showed me just how narrow the line is between the military and corporate America. Maybe it's different today, but back in the 1960s, while JFK was talking about idealism and altruism, the military was fighting its own war both within government, with the Soviets and their satellite nations, and with some alien presence that the military believed was hostile. It was as if there was an entire universe during the early 1960s that was completely invisible unless you knew it was there. More than ever, Phil Corso's revelations pointed me in the direction of a "secret American history" that is still unfolding today. CNI: Turning now to the specifics in the book, does Corso state as fact that alien (i.e. off-world, non-human) artifacts have been acquired by the U.S. government? WB: Yes. Said artifacts were part of the Roswell debris delivered to the Pentagon from Wright Field and were stored in R&D files for over ten years before anyone tried to harvest them. Corso handled some of these artifacts, especially the cracker-sized IC wafers, a fiber-optic harness, and some kind of metallic headband, and tried to determine what use they had. CNI: And does Corso state as fact that alien bodies have been acquired by the U.S. government? WB: Corso saw one of the alien bodies floating in some kind of gel in a casket at Fort Riley in 1947 and reviewed the Army autopsy of an alien body while he was at the Pentagon. He describes what the Army pathologists speculated upon in his book. CNI: In your understanding, why is Corso writing this book now? WB: Corso says that now that everybody is dead, especially his boss, Arthur Trudeau, he feels comfortable talking about the Foreign Technology section of Army R&D. Five years ago, he wouldn't have compiled this manuscript or dared to describe what he did. But, now, he says, there really is no reason to keep these facts hidden. Besides, he believes he's part of the disclosure. CNI: Do you think Corso has put himself (his reputation, his military pension, his life) at risk by publishing this book? WB: Although his pension is not at issue, nor is his life, there are people -- friends of his from his military days -- who've suggested that the public really shouldn't be entrusted with this information and it's better left unspoken. Also, very few people currently in the government want to be identified with the Roswell story because of the ongoing controversy. Clearly, Phil Corso has opened up some of this controversy to public scrutiny, and it's bound to cause some waves. CNI: Senator Strom Thurmond, who wrote the foreword to the book, told the Associated Press on June 5 that he was not properly informed on the content of the book and now wants to distance himself from it. According to the press statement, Thurmond was told that the book was to be a memoir titled "I Walked with Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence," and that there was "'absolutely no mention, suggestion or indication' that the book dealt with UFOs and a government conspiracy to hide the existence of such space vehicles." On learning the actual content of the book, Thurmond stated that "I did not, and would not, pen the foreword to a book about, or containing, a suggestion that the success of the United States in the Cold War is attributable to the technology found on a crashed UFO." Mr. Birnes, how do you respond to these statements? WB: I want to set the record straight on this. I've read a number of articles in which Thurmond's staff has cited a book entitled "I Walked with Giants" as the book for which the senator claims to have written the foreword. This is patently incorrect. The truth is that the foreword the senator wrote for Phil Corso's first manuscript "I Walked with Giants" was returned to him by Col. Corso, who requested that he write a NEW foreword for his book "The Day After Roswell." Col. Corso spoke to Senator Thurmond in person in DC and told him what he was writing in "The Day After Roswell," and that he was even including an anecdote about [the senator] in the book. Senator Thurmond agreed to write the new foreword -- which he did -- and sent it to Corso. I have copies of both forewords as well as Thurmond's signed release to use his new foreword in "The Day After Roswell." It's quite possible that, for whatever reason, Senator Thurmond's staff never realized that the senator had agreed to write a foreword for a book about UFOs and the military's harvest of alien technology. But the senator did agree, and we have his signed release."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Preliminary catalog entry on Corso book From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:04:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:45:07 -0400 Subject: Preliminary catalog entry on Corso book Here is my preliminary catalog entry on the Corso book. The Day After Roswell - "The Truth Exposed After Fifty Years! A former Pentagon Official Reveals the U.S. Government's Shocking UFO Cover-up." -- We are still analysing this one, but we do have it in stock. On our first skimming, it looks like a thin gruel of warmed over UFO conspiracy theories. Much of the story is told in the form of a novel, which is frustrating, since we would rather have more concrete details of what Corso did and saw. In the back is a lenthy government document on a _proposed_ lunar outpost -- which seems irrelevant. Corso seems to recount the standard UFO cover-up claims with nothing new added: MJ-12 exists just as Stanton Friedman would have it; the aliens gave us lasers, fiber optics and integrated circuits. If this were coming from an average conspiracy buff, we would regard it as rubbish, but these are direct claims of a former high-ranking government official. Creepy. [gc 6/18/97] - #corso {2book} $24.00 To order with Visa/MC, call 702-729-2648, or see Ordering Info. ----------------- Ufomind Index: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/corso/ Ufomind Index: http://www.ufomind.com/catalog/c/corso/ +---------------------------------------------------------+ | GLENN CAMPBELL - Government Disinformation Agent | | "Who does he really work for?" | | | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +---------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:02:38 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:43:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:36:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Ottawa Citizen: British Baffled By Near-Hit --solved?? >>LONDON -- Investigators are baffled by an apparent near-collision >>between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object over >>England. >>The BAe 146, bound for Stansted in eastern England from Dublin, took >>evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red >>aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them north of >>London. >>The jet passed 30 metres above the object two seconds later. >>The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested >>that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a >>Hawk jet from the Royal Air Force's Red Arrows aerobatics team. >>But searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts failed to find >>another aircraft in the area. >>Britain's Civil Aviation Authority group was set up to examine the >>incident, which happened last June. >>It said yesterday there was no doubt the pilots ``saw something and >>agreed in some detail in their descriptions.'' >It would say that it's highly likely that what these pilot's almost collided >with was the NASA LoFlyte plane. Ahem, since when is NASA's LoFlyte doing test flights over the UK? >The Belgium government recently stated that this >plane may have been the culprit for the triangle sightings in Belgium in >1990. Personally I think this is unlikely due to the fact the LoFlyte plane >does not match the witness descriptions of the Belgian triangles at all You're right on this. The Belgian government just wanted to close the investigation. The manoeuvers that were performed by the Belgian Flying Triangle in 1990 are simply impossible to do for terrestrial craft, LoFlyte of no LoFlyte. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerry Clark] Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:08:17 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:53:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 > From: rprokic@plinet.com [Roger Prokic] > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0600 > Subject: Rep: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:40:30 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 > Ed Komarek I believe is an honorable and professional person > who does a great job of making info public for everyone to > chew on. I am one who appreciates what he has done. > Mr. Stacy on the other hand sounds like a spoiled brat, very > unprofessional, and in my opinion, is an embarrassment to MUFON. > Just my 2 cents from a UFO Updates lurker till now. <g> > Roger Let's see if I get this straight. Komarek, the master of reckless slander, is accusing everybody who presumes to disagree with him of treachery and of allegiance to some sinister intelligence agency or not, and it's the targets of his venom and reckless accusation who are the "name-callers"? I would like to think you're joking, Roger. You're not, of course. Your logic is Orwellian. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:19:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:46:53 -0400 Subject: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview I would like to make a comment on this line of argument from Kent. Some folks have been studying this whole UFO thang for a really long time. Kent sets up an interesting straw man argument here saying that "If this UFO crash were an extraterrestrial vehical operating in time and space as we know it, corresponding to all of the laws of physics as we understand them, and the product of a technological society of intelligent creatures who independently evolved from human beings, a vehicle which by definition must have traveled light years subject to relativistic physics then................................" What a load of assumptions. The UFO phenomenon is "real", if you count nothing but it's effect on human culture for at least a few thousand years as having some basis in "reality". When we examine the phenomena that encompass the enigma we call UFO, and by that I mean *all* of it, there is no reason to think that the ETH hypothesis as stated above has anything to do with these anamolous whichamaggigers flitting around our sky, leaving their imprints on our minds, myths, religions, and cultures. Kent begins by stating that his version of reality can only encompass a very narrow mechanistic worldview which is limited to what current human technology and popular conceptions of space, time, and biology have championed. That's nice to hear, but reality, as any good Fortean knows, is rarely so accomadating. Darn it to heck, reality tends to get a lot weirder than that qucker than an elf can pilot his UFO down to the local farm and cook up some hotcakes. Kent attempts to divorce the phenomenon from the way it presents itself to us, and then bottle it into his narrow view of reality, where it clearly doesn't want to fit. UFOs have produced most world religions and continue to do so yet today. The intelligence behind the UFO (the trickster archetype if you prefer) operates as a control mechanism on humanity manipulating our myths. These intruders operate a psychological program of mass mind manipulation that makes the CIA green with envy even today. The grand UFO cover up is, was, and always has been operated by the UFOs themselves. Our understanding of time and space is completely flawed, limited, and inadequate if, and that is only *if* UFOs are 'real.' Heck, they challenge our very definition of the word 'real' itself. The presumptions inherent in Kents argument are laughable in the face of the phenomenon itself! The 'technology' behind the UFO phenomenon could be very low tech indeed. Based on some cosmological principle *we* haven't discovered but one that might appear comparable to the horse and buggy relative to their culture. Perhaps they are as boggled by our technologies as we are about theirs? You cannot take a phenomenon which is patently bizarre, surreal, and challenges all of our concepts of space, time, biology, and even sense of self as this one, and bind it into a worldview which it inherently contradicts! UFOs exist, that is for sure. They are enmeshed in all human religions, cultures, and myth. It is no more valid to refer to them as ET in a spaceship than it is for Pat Robertson to refer to them as demon spawn. Their origin could well exist beyond what our senses can ever perceive or understand. Neverless, Kent has a point. Crashed ET spaceships they are not. Are they important? Unless you belong to a particularily strong religious persuasion, Mormanism, Catholocism, Judaism, Materialism, or UFOlogy, no, they are not. They hover around the fringes of reason with an agenda all their own. Unless dear Kent happens to get abducted next week, I'm quite certain he can rest comfortably in his new found sense of freedom. Meanwhile, I'm certain 'they' remain completely in control of their coverup.... Don't worry about the CIA friends, worry about the next time Jehovah shows up in his flying saucer..and then ask yourself if we have anything sufficiently cooked up out at Area 51 to deal with him. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:08:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:42:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Bentwaters: Project Pounce James Easton wrote: >This pattern was identical to a landing pattern (Crop Circle) >>Oh good grief. >>>It's easier to ridicule than to contemplate, but try to check >>>your sarcasm when you read the information below. >>>>Exasperation isn't ridicule or sarcasm. Sorry that I mistook your attitude >>>We have to sort out fact from fiction, especially with such a >>>compelling case. Yes, and as it should appear from my answer, I don't want to advocate Wilson's story until I see further evidence. In view of all the tall stories in the UFO field one has to be careful. My aim was just to supply a little information on the claims concerning the case. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 18 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:43:58 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:16:28 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We >Stop Him! >Ed, you have now confirmed to me personally that you are >completely out of >your mind. Getting a "court order" to "stop Jeffery" (sic) is >not only irrational, >it exposes your wacky I_UFO Boylan-ish mentality. I am leaving to go work on a piece of land I have in the NC mountains and no computer will be available. This will take two to three weeks. I will not be able to keep up the dialogue on the Kent Jeffrey affair. I am sorry I don't have the time to address all the posts referring to what I perceive as a classic case of infiltration, subversion and double cross. Unfortunately so many members of the UFO community have little knowledge of political realities especially in the area of UFO/ETs. I have followed the activities of the debunkers for some 30 years now and its always the same old story. Thank goodness there are a few seasoned UFO veterans like Bob Shell who know the score. If you have studied debunkers like CISCOP's Phil Klass through this period you will have learned every trick in the book. The problem then becomes how to counter these tricks. It should be obvious that a fifty year old coverup must be maintained and nourished. In order for a coverup of this magnitude to succeed requires that UFO/ET truths be kept from the mainstream press and public awareness. That means it does not matter if the truth in known by a relative few individuals in the UFO community as long as their conduit to the public, the mainstream press is confused and subverted. CSICOP the debunking organization does not waste time on research but focuses on inserting their propaganda into the mainstream press. The debunkers know full well that this issue is about politics and psychological warfare. Small wonder that Col. Byron the head of the CIA's psychological warfare board was on the board of NICAP back in the fifties. I would not be surprised if he did not have a hand developing the policy of denial and ridicule so effective in maintaining the UFO coverup. I thought I made it clear that the court order would be to protect the signers of the petition that trusted Jeffrey to be their advocate and agent. It should be obvious to everyone that Kent Jeffrey was acting in the capacity of agent and has a obligation to drop out of the petition process when he can no longer function well in that capacity. These people trusted him to be their advocate and not to undermine the process regardless of his personal beliefs. What he believes or professes to believe now to be true will undermine the effectiveness of the drive. For that reason he should step down. Its not his place to let his personal opinions interfere with his obligation as agent to the signers. This even if he is sincere which I doubt very much. The court order would be to stop his delivery of the petitions and to put them into the hands of those that hold the same common beliefs as the signers. (I see nothing irrational about this.) I doubt anyone will be able to get that together in little over 2 weeks time. Small wonder that Jeffrey goes public right before the delivery of the petitions. Timing is everything in politics. Have you heard when and where he will deliver the petitions and hold a press briefing? I suspect we won't know that till after the fact if someone does not do some digging. I don't see Jeffrey giving us any information on that do you? >From: lists@the-den.clara.net [Nick Humphries] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We >Stop Him! >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:27:47 GMT >But the best response came from ol' faithful Ed "I'm not >paranoid" >Komarek. It starts: Nick! You can't even quote me correctly. Here is the proper quote folks before this little bit of misinformation makes its rounds: "Maybe not as paranoid as you had been led to believe" There is a big difference in these two statements >Did you read Jeffrey's article, Ed? The Roswell Declaration is >a >movement to try and get the govt to release UFO info, not just >Roswell. As Jeffrey has decided that Roswell has a mundane >explaination, but UFOs in general are ET, then it makes sense >for his >petition to be delivered by himself. Of course I read the article Nick. You don't seem to be getting the point. Jeffrey is clearly not the right person for the job to deliver the petitions. Mark my words he will use his personal beliefs to undermine the petition process in the mainstream press while maintaining a flimsy cover as a continued advocate of the petition process. Its politics Nick, the sooner the UFO community and the general public wise up the better. Its time to defend ourselves from psychological attacks such as these. Otherwise the coverup will may never end. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: TIME: 'Did Aliens Really Land?' From: "Dr. Fredric Young" <drfyoung@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:00:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:47:30 -0400 Subject: Re: TIME: 'Did Aliens Really Land?' Okay, let me get this straight. First it was a weather balloon. And then when people got skeptical of that, it became not just an ordinary weather balloon, but a Project Mogul weather balloon. Then a FUGO weather balloon. Or maybe it was a Japanese project that flew over Roswell. Then there were no bodies, then there were bodies, but they might be test monkies. Or dummies. But what would dummies be doing in a Mogul balloon. (Or maybe they were ther to keep the Japanese company. Or would that be the monkeys.) A famous psychologist once observed that he had one certain infallible test for criminal sociopathy. He would ask the sociopath questions, e.g., "Well, if you didn't commite the crime, how did the victim's jewlery get in your car?" Answer: "I picked it up at a stoplight." Question: "But there weren't any stoplights on the road you said you travelled." Answer: "Well I picked up a hitchhiker, and he dropped the jewlery there." And so forth, until the sociopath finally gets an answer he thinks you will buy. Sound like any branch of the DOD we know? Dr. Fred Young.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Kent's worldview.... From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:37:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:45:35 -0400 Subject: Kent's worldview.... [Note to moderator : I think I finally figured out the problem(s) with my original version of this post. Hopefully this version clears things up.] The question I raise in this post is whether or not Kent's worldview even allows for UFOs...that is to say allows for the kind of UFOs as they actually present themselves to us. Afterall, some folks have been studying this whole UFO thing for a really long time and I'm not quite certain that Kent's worldview (presumptions, assumptions, and prerequisites, if you will) are large enough to account for what is unquestionably a very bizarre set of phenomena. Kent sets up an interesting straw man argument along the lines of (paraphrasing).. 'If this UFO crash were an extraterrestrial vehicle operating in time and space as we know it, corresponding to all of the laws of physics as we understand them, and the product of a technological society of intelligent creatures who independently evolved from human beings, a vehicle which by definition must have traveled light years subject to relativistic physics then................................' What a load of assumptions. The UFO phenomenon is "real", if you count nothing but it's effect on human culture for at least a few thousand years as having some basis in "reality". When we examine the phenomena that encompass the enigma we call UFO, and by that I mean *all* of it, there is no reason to think that the ETH hypothesis as stated above has anything to do with these anamolous whichamaggigers flitting around our sky, leaving their imprints on our minds, myths, religions, and cultures. Kent begins by stating that his version of reality can only encompass a very narrow mechanistic worldview which is limited to what current human technology and popular conceptions of space, time, and biology have championed. That's nice to hear, but reality, as any good Fortean knows, is rarely so accomadating. Darn it to heck, reality tends to get a lot weirder than that qucker than an elf can pilot his UFO down to the local farm and cook up some hotcakes. Kent attempts to divorce the phenomenon from the way it presents itself to us, and then bottle it into his narrow view of reality, where it clearly doesn't want to fit. UFOs have produced most world religions and continue to do so yet today. The intelligence behind the UFO (the trickster archetype if you prefer) operates as a control mechanism on humanity manipulating our myths. These intruders operate a psychological program of mass mind manipulation that makes the CIA green with envy even today. The grand UFO cover up is, was, and always has been operated by the UFOs themselves. Our understanding of time and space is completely flawed, limited, and inadequate if, and that is only *if* UFOs are 'real.' Heck, they challenge our very definition of the word 'real' itself. The presumptions inherent in Kents argument are laughable in the face of the phenomenon itself! The 'technology' behind the UFO phenomenon could be very low tech indeed. Based on some cosmological principle *we* haven't discovered but one that might appear comparable to the horse and buggy relative to their culture. Perhaps they are as boggled by our technologies as we are about theirs? You cannot take a phenomenon which is patently bizarre, surreal, and challenges all of our concepts of space, time, biology, and even sense of self as this one, and bind it into a worldview which it inherently contradicts! UFOs exist, that is for sure. They are enmeshed in all human religions, cultures, and myths. It is no more valid to refer to them as ET in a spaceship than it is for Pat Robertson to refer to them as demon-spawn. Their origin could well exist beyond what our senses can ever perceive or understand. Neverless, Kent has a point. Crashed ET spaceships they are not. Are they important? Unless you belong to a particularily strong religious persuasion, Mormanism, Catholocism, Judaism, Materialism, or UFOlogy, no, they are not. They hover around the fringes of reason with an agenda all their own. Unless dear Kent happens to get abducted next week, I'm quite certain he can rest comfortably in his new found sense of freedom. Meanwhile, I'm certain 'they' remain completely in control of their coverup.... Don't worry about the CIA friends, worry about the next time Jehovah shows up in his flying saucer..and then ask yourself if we have anything sufficiently cooked up out at Area 51 to deal with him. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 13:51:05 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:54:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >Date: 18 Jun 97 09:28:14 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:50:35 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 >>I have nothing against Kent Jeffrey, but dumb debunking arguments are just >>dumb debunking arguments. >>David Rudiak >Good post Dave! I've been saying the above for some time, but not many >wanted to listen because I was talking about the Alien Autopsy film. >Kent showed his true colors back then, but since he was still >pro-Roswell at the time, not many were willing to see how intellectually >bankrupt he was -- and is. "Intellectually bankrupt"? That's a real knee-slapper, Bob -- coming from you. I personally don't think you're in much of a position to cast aspersions about Kent Jeffrey's character -- in light of your sordid involvement in the Santilli AA scam. I get the impression that Kent just grew frustrated and disgusted by the kooks, scam artists and wannabes (the real "disinfo agents") that infest the side-show known as ufology. While I think he's ultimately throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I certainly don't suspect either his character or motivation. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffrey: How Do We Stop Him! From: "Dr. Fredric Young" <drfyoung@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:02:51 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:43:14 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffrey: How Do We Stop Him! > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:45:58 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! > >From: EdKomarek@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) > >Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:46:53 -0400 > >Subject: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! > >ORTK SPECIAL NOTICE > >By Ed Komarek > >6/16/97 > >Debunker Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! > Well, if you are thinking about putting a hit out on him, be > sure to spell his name right. I'd hate for the wrong person to > be caught in the crossfire. > It's Kent Jeffrey, not Jeffery, not Jefferys. > K-E-N-T J-E-F-F-R-E-Y. > Rebecca I admire your sense of humor, Rebecca. I've only vaguely followed tis debate, because I think any mailing list on a controversial subject should allow all viewpoints, and the only regulation should be those of decency, etc. So enough already on who is a debunker and who isn't. (Not you, but the whole debate.) Fred
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 13:05:06 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:48:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:33:05 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO > converstion >This is really laughable. Why don't you look up the actual name of the >French rocket before posting this nonsense. Perhaps you are imagining >the astronaut was pronouncing alien with a Japanese accent! >Ariane is the name of the French rocket. >This one really takes the cake. Does NASA have an "official" explanation for this one??? Seems pretty odd that they'd talk about something like this on an open, unscrambled channel. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:58:50 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 4/6 In a message dated 97-06-18 15:14:39 EDT Scott Hale wrote: >I would like to talk a little about Irving Newton. In _The Roswell >Incident_ Page 38 Newton is asked: Can you describe the fabric? Was it >easy to tear? He answered: Certainly. You would have to be careful not >to tear it. The metal involved was likely an extremely thin alcoa wrap. >It was very flimsy. Kent Jeffery says that Newton describes the material >as "a box kite-like device covered with a tough, paper-backed foil that >was suspended below balloons or balloon arrays to facilitate radar >tracking." This is interesting. In one instance, he describes the >material as very weak, in another exactly the opposite! > In _The Roswell Incident_ Newton says that he found out after he > left Ramey's office that the material was supposedly from a flying > saucer. In the 1994 Air Force report he enters the office, giggles, and > asks if this is the "flying saucer". > > In _The Roswell Incident_ version of his testimony, there is nothing > mentioned about Major Marcel trying to convince Newton the debris was > strange. In _The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell_ Newton is quoted > as saying that Major Marcel was showing him parts of the wreckage, and > asking if they were on a normal balloon. In the 1994 Air Force Report, > Newton says that Marcel was trying to convince him that the debris had > alien writing on them. > > Finally, Newton offers 2 versions of the order Ramey gave him over > the phone while he was at the Weather Office. "get your ass over here > now. Use a car and if you have to, take the first one with keys in it." > or "Get your ass over here in ten minutes. If you can't get a car > commandeer the first one that comes along- on my orders." > Can we really consider Newton reliable at all? He's given us some > pretty different accounts of what happened. I don't think this can all > be explained by memory error. Perhaps the Ramey quotes can, but the > other stuff is pretty cut and dry. Newton's testimony has changed in > some major ways! Thanks Scott for recounting the various ways in which Newton's testimony has shifted over the years. Here's a few more point: 1. Back in 1947, Newton was quoted in the newspapers that the radar target he identified could have come from any of 80 other military weather stations in the country. Today he is claiming they were used only overseas and on special projects like Mogul or Operation Crossroads. The fact is, back in 1947, Newton's statement was backed up by other weather officers who said the radar targets were used by every weather station in the country and by photos of other identical radar targets being recovered or launched elsewhere in the U.S. 2. Newton's testimony that Marcel practically chased him all over the room in a frantic effort to get him to change his mind about the origins of the "alien writing" and supertough foil is a completely new addition to his story, originally recounted in OMNI Magazine, Fall 1995. Obviously if he knew nothing of the flying saucer angle until AFTERWARDS, as he originally said in the "Roswell Incident," he would hardly have "giggled" at the so-called flying saucer, or had Marcel trying to convince him of "alien writing." 3. More to the point, the story is absurd on a number of other grounds. Marcel would have had to do all this in front of reporters and other brass in the room, including Gen. Ramey and Col. Dubose. Surely, if Marcel had tried to convince him of "alien writing" or chased him all over the room, or have been humiliated by Ramey in front of the reporters, all parts of Newton's increasingly elaborate story, something along these lines would have shown up in the news accounts of the press conference. But absolutely nothing like this was mentioned. Instead Marcel alleged recounted a very mundane story of how Brazel found the debris, rolled it up into a bundle and put it under some bushes, then dug it up when he heard about the flying saucer reports, and came to Roswell. That's about it -- nothing about "alien writing," humiliation by Ramey, or frantic efforts of Marcel trying to convince Newton of alien origins. These all seem like pretty blatant embellishments by Newton on his original story. 4. According to Kent Jeffrey, Newton is claiming that he definitely spoke to the "major" from Roswell. But again, there is nothing in the news stories to support this. According to Dubose's memory, the "major" whom Newton spoke to was actually Major Cashon, Ramey's PIO. One indication that Dubose may be right about this is the fact that one picture of Newton was taken with him holding the debris. This picture isn't credited to any civilian news agency. C. Bond Johnson, who definitely took the pictures of Ramey and Dubose and perhaps Marcel, is certain he wasn't responsible and thinks it was probably Ramey's PIO who took the picture. The photo was later distributed to the press. This makes perfect sense. Thus Newton interacted with Major Cashon in some capacity, not Major Marcel. Newton knew neither man and could easily have been confused. 5. Another indication that Newton's story is baloney are the statements of both Marcel and Dubose. Dubose said Ramey was completely in charge and everybody just carried out his orders. Marcel said Ramey ordered him to keep his mouth shut and say only what he was allowed to say. Ramey did most of the actual talking. Yet Newton is claiming that Marcel then went ahead and started talking about alien origins in front of reporters and Ramey. Marcel would have been in big trouble. But Ramey praised him highly a year later, calling his work "outstanding" and saying he thought he could become a command officer. Dubose also cosigned a later evaluation of Marcel by Col. Blanchard, and had nothing negative to note. So how exactly did Marcel create an embarrassing scene in front of Ramey, Dubose, and the press and never have it mentioned anywhere? Newton's basic story over the years was the Ramey ordered him to his office over Newton's objections, he was quickly briefed by a colonel before entering the room, he identified the radar target, and then was quickly dismissed, immediately returning to his unmanned weather station. Most of the rest seems to be pretty obvious embellishment and shifting of his original testimony from 1947 and in the "Roswell Incident." David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Thurmond Was Present At CSETI's Briefing Of From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:13:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:00:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Thurmond Was Present At CSETI's Briefing Of >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Sender: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:57:47 +0200 >Subject: Thurmond Was Present At CSETI's Briefing Of Congress >The Corso-Thurmond controversy is old news now, but I just stumbled >upon a piece of information which indicates that Senator Thurmond was >present at CSETI's UFO briefing of the Congress. >The e-mail was sent to IUFO's mailing list on May 22, long before the >dispute became known to the public on June 5. The article in question resulted in a quick response from CSETI, which requested that Boylan and others check the facts of their stories before posting them. There were a couple of Congressional names mentioned, and a request of Thurmond's office to confirm or deny his attendance has not resulted in a response. The other name mentioned was "Congressman Weingard", which isn't a current (or former) Member of the House. It just so happens that one of the staffers who attended CSETI's Briefing had come from an office whose Member had a name that was very similar to "Weingard", which is where I believe the confusion arose. However, this staffer was very concerned about her involvement in this becoming public and emphasized that she was only there to represent herself, so I don't believe that her boss is involved in this. While interesting, the article in question by Boylan needs to be fully checked.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jun 97 16:37:53 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:06:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:19:40 -0500 >From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >I would like to make a comment on this line of argument from Kent. Some >folks have been studying this whole UFO thang for a really long time. >Kent sets up an interesting straw man argument here saying that "If this >UFO crash were an extraterrestrial vehical operating in time and space >as we know it, corresponding to all of the laws of physics as we >understand them, and the product of a technological society of >intelligent creatures who independently evolved from human beings, a >vehicle which by definition must have traveled light years subject to >relativistic physics then................................" >What a load of assumptions. John, At last the voice of reason! Your post puts the whole thing into perspective, and shows clearly that Ken Jeffrey, and many other UFO researchers, have nary a clue as to what it is they are really dealing with. Thanks for sticking around and posting now and then. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Corso's book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:39:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:19:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book Regarding... >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >Subject: Corso's book >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:25 -0400 Greg wrote: >The key to Corso's UFO information is the title of the book -- "The >Day After Roswell." This refers to something initially quite limited, >and fascinating -- what happened to the crash debris. Corso says that >it initially got scattered scientific study, some of which led to the >development of the transitor. Greg, The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell Telephone Laboratories. Briefly setting this in some perspective: John V. Atanasoff, a professor at Iowa State College, and Clifford Berry, a graduate student, conceived an all-electronic computer that applied Boolean algebra to computer circuitry. In 1939, they designed a prototype and in 1973, a judge declared it to be the first automatic digital computer. The code-breaking Colossus computer was designed and built in 1941 at the University of Manchester, England and Colossus Mark II followed in 1944. The first information-processing digital computer actually built was the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator, or Mark I computer. Completed in 1944, this electromechanical device was designed by American Howard H. Aiken, a Harvard engineer working with IBM. Around half the length of a football field and containing some 500 miles of wiring, its purpose was to create ballistic charts for the U.S. Navy. February of 1946 saw an unveiling of the Electronic Numerical Integrator and Computer (ENIAC), the result of a joint project between the U.S. government and the University of Pennsylvania. Consisting of 17,468 vacuum tubes, some 70,000 resistors and 5 million soldered joints, it weighed approximately 30 tons and required 1000 square feet of floor space. Entirely electronic, it consumed up to 160 kilowatts of power, sufficient to dim the lights in part of Philadelphia. Vacuum tubes were required for electromechanical circuit switching and the regulated conduction of electrical current - basically switching and amplification - but they consumed too much power, gave off too much heat, took up too much space, cost too much to produce, and they burned out. Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen's research addressed these problems and in searching for a suitable alternative they decided to try semiconductors, materials that were adequate, although not exceptional, conductors of electricity. Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar diodes, they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that small changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a suitable medium would produce active electronic effects and when they passed current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated the principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid semiconducting material. Their concept was based on the fact that it is possible to selectively control the flow of electricity through silicon, designating some areas as current conductors and adjacent areas as insulators. The point-contact transistor amplifier became the building block for all modern electronics and the foundation for microchip and computer technology. >But then it languished, until the early '60s when Corso went to work >for a foreign technology unit of the army. [...] >If somebody's thinking is stimulated by a fragment of an alien TV >set, they still have to theorize and experiment to imitate the thing >-- and it's those theories and experiments that show up in published >data, not the inspiration for them. As for lasers and fibre (fiber) optics... Einstein is credited as the "Father" of the laser. In 1917, he theorised photons and stimulated emission and was awarded the Nobel prize for his work. The first microwave laser was with us in 1954 and projected a beam of ammonia molecules through a system of focusing electrodes. The first optical laser appeared in 1960, it's design based on a rod of ruby crystal which produced pulses of red light. In 1961, a laser based on a mixture of helium and neon gases was constructed and produced continuous output of red light. Shortly after the announcement of the first successful optical laser, other laboratories around the world successfully lased different substrates and as manufacturing techniques improved, lasers rapidly made the transition from the laboratory to commercial applications. The principle behind fibre optics dates back to antiquity and has been used for centuries in prisms and illuminated fountains. In 1870, Englishman John Tyndall demonstrated to the Royal Society that light travelled along a curved stream of water and in 1880, Scotsman Alexander Graham Bell took the concept further in his photophone experiment, which transmitted voice signals on beams of light. Bell shelved the idea, as there was too much interference with the light beam and the signals couldn't travel any meaningful distance. In 1926, another Scotsman, John Logie Baird, patented an early form of colour television which used glass rods to carry light. An idea ahead of its time, little progress was made until the 1950's when the first fibrescopes were developed. Although scientists were aware that optical fibre could transmit light, the transmission interference seemed to be an insurmountable problem and it wasn't until 1970 that Corning Glass researchers, Drs Robert Maurer, Donald Keck, and Peter Schultz designed and produced the first optical fibre which met the specification for wide use in telecommunications. The discovery by the Corning group was soon recognised as a breakthrough and led the way for the commercialisation of optical fibre as a revolution in telecommunications. These are all of course verifiable facts. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: yogi@iadfw.net [Bill Ralls] Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:59:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:22:47 -0400 Subject: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says Errol and All, This may be old news, but I thought it interesting. If anyone has additional information concerning this, I would appreciate hearing about it. Regards, Bill Ralls UFO World http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/ufo.html ********************************************************************** 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says 'Bodies' reportedly used to test chutes SOURCE: Ft.Worth Star Telegram By Bill Hendrick - Cox News Service ATLANTA - Long accused by UFO buffs of covering up visits by weird- looking beings from outer space, the Pentagon plans to issue a report soon contending that alien-like bodies have fallen from the skies over New Mexico: man-made dummies. Rubbery, humanoid-shaped dummies with no body hair, ears or noses. According to the report, the dummies were part of secret tests on high-altitude parachuting, plunging to the ground from giant balloons in the 1940s and 1950s says Philip J. Klass, a scientist and author of six books debunking UFOs as imaginary. Pentagon spokeswoman Gloria Cales said Tuesday that the report will be issued soon, that it contains "some surprises," but that there is no evidence that UFOs have ever visited Earth. Klass, 77, a longtime board member of the journal Skeptical Inquirer, said he has seen a copy of the 248-page report, which includes about 100 photographs. He said the Air Force prepared it as a follow-up to a 1994 study in which it conceded that the government lied in 1947 when it said a weather balloon had crashed near Roswell, N.M., instead of a flying saucer as announced by the Army. On July 8,1947, the Army said a "flying disc" had been captured. But later, after being examined by high-ranking officers at Carswell Air Force Base in Fort Worth, the debris was identified as a weather balloon. The 1994 Air Force report said that what crashed in 1947 wasn't a weather balloon, but a top-secret spying device to detect Soviet nuclear blasts. The just-completed report was prepared because UFO buffs complained that the 1994 study did not address persistent claims that tiny alien bodies were found after the crash, Klass said in an interview. The new report will say the Air Force dropped human-like dummies to test high-altitude parachute-recovery techniques, Klass said. Some dummies were human size, but others were small - similar to descriptions of alien creatures that have circulated for 50 years. "The report will suggest that perhaps some of the alleged recollections of alien spacecraft and ET bodies may stem from those tests," Klass said. Time magazine also reported Monday that the Air Force will reveal that it used dummies, misidentified by UFO buffs as aliens. UFO buffs have long accused the Air Force and the entire government of covering up what it knows about UFOs. The 1994 report was done at the request of Rep. Steven Schiff, R-N.M. It was followed in 1995 by a report from the General Accounting Office that said many dispatches about the Roswell crash had been lost. **********************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:51:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:17:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 >From: rprokic@plinet.com [Roger Prokic] >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0600 >Subject: Rep: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:40:30 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 1/6 ==================================================================== Hiya Roger, hi All, I wrote, >>Note: "Coma-wreck," are you listening? You wrote, >John, isn't this a bit juvenile of you? I'm sure that it could easily be percieved that way and I don't blame you for your attitude about it. As Ricky would say to Lucy, "Eef jew doan unnerstan where I coming frong, I'll splain it." Ed thinks it's O-K to say anything he wants about anybody without having to substantiate it. He incessantly calls people names like, government agent, traitor, debunker, sell out, etc.etc.etc. (Serious stuff man!) I didn't coin the phrase "Coma-Wreck" someone else did, and I thought it was a good way for me to get Eds' attention! I used it with him in order to (illustrate) my point. It was intended as an educational "how does it feel to be on the recieving end of it" remark. I was hoping that he would call me on it so that I could discuss the issue with him and (maybe) get him to stop doing that to others. Sometimes folks respond to a little 'heat!' Apparently, it didn't work, Ed's leaving town instead! "Won't be near a computer to respond for several weeks," says he. <G> Sorry if it offended your sensibilities Roger, it was not intended to convey the attitude that you percieved in it. I know it may be hard for you to see, but in (my own unique way) I'm really trying to help the guy! Ed has all of the best intentions,...just remember that, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!" <G> HIS ENERGY IS BEING SADLY WASTED AND MIS-DIRECTED. One of the things that makes participation in the UpDates forum such a joy and a bonafide learning experience, is the 'self correcting' nature of the beast. We come from many different places, life experiences and viewpoints but (somehow) we all manage to communicate with one another and,... knock some of the rough edges off of each other in the process. I have made mistakes and, errors in judgement. These were invariably pointed out to me by guys with almost polarized viewpoints to my own. But guess what, in those cases they were right and I was wrong. I'm better for having gone thru the experience. Vice-versa, (some of them) are better for having been exposed to me and my life force. We keep each other honest and in a rare case or two 'humble' as well. That's ALL good healthy stuff. Don't worry about defending Ed, he's a big boy and the lessons that he's learning (we're all learning) will help to make him and us a much more effective force (a unified force) in the future. He really needs to hear the things that are being said to him, they will help to make him a better neighbor, comrade and spokesman for the UFO community. (Which is what Ed strives for, nothing wrong with that.) We're knockin' the rough edges off of him, and each other, that's all. I've found that participating on this list has sometimes been a "grow or blow" situation, and I have learned so very much in such a short time. Aside from all of the research related questions/dialogs, and the ever present 'who said what about who' posts, this process of rubbing up against each other, polishing each other, learning to to communicate with, and respect each other, goes on underneath it all. It is, to me, the (real) value and purpose of Errol's list! (It's bloody Noble! <G>) Let Ed take his lumps and pay his dues, if he has (half) of the potential that he shows, people will learn to respect him. We'll ALL be the better for it. People are naturally lazy. If we don't occasionally challenge each other to bring out and contribute only the very best that is in each one of us, we won't make any progress. That, usually only happens by pointing out, working on, and eliminating weaknesses. We ALL have many lessons to learn and miles to go, we're simply not in a position to evaluate how much or how little progress we're making. What we are doing collectively is moving closer together, learning to listen to one another, respect one another, and love one another. We all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. If we're lucky, and work really hard, (maybe) we can advance the Piece another square or two down the road from where we found it. >From there, united in mind, purpose and will, we will someday be able to (collectively) deal with ANY outside force that may present itself. As one united people greeting another. (And that's only if 'they' aren't here to turn us into their next meal!) <G> Peace Roger. Your fellow list/shipmate, John Velez, lowly Seaman, 1st Class * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:09:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' - Part 2/6 Kent Jeffrey gave the following example supposedly illustrating how more advanced technologies are inherently more reliable. Therefore the chances of a flying saucer crash were infinitesimally small. >For example, because of the high reliability of >their engines, long-range, twin-engine commercial jetliners are >now authorized to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic.... >With today's industry-average engine-failure rate of less than >one failure per 100,000 flight hours, the chances of both engines >of a two-engine jetliner failing during a given hour of flight >are less than one out of 10 billion. Figuring 50,000 >aircraft-ocean crossings per year, and factoring in such >variables as average time over the water and average distance >from land, the odds are less than fifty-fifty of a double-engine >failure and consequent ditching in the North Atlantic of even one >such aircraft over the next 10,000 years. Today I just gave one example of a JAL 747 crash from a dozen years ago caused by simultaneous loss of four supposedly independent hydraulic systems, something that supposedly couldn't happen. However, a blown bulkhead sheared all four lines, lying side by side in the tail section. That's the problem with statistical calculations of failure rates. Their based on assumptions of independence of systems, which aren't necessarily independent in unexpected situations. Now here's another example more to the point and straight out of today's news. This concerns a plane crash which occurred recently in which all four engines appeared to simultaneously fail because of a design flaw. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- San Francisco Chronicle, June 18, 1997 Air Force Knew Engines Had Failed Before a rescue plane crashed off Cape Mendocino last fall, the Air Force had issued a directive about how to handle the type of engine problems the plane encountered, a reserve pilot has told investigators. The Air Force has said the November 22 crash that killed 10 Oregon-based crewmen was the first time that that all four engines had failed on an HC-130P cargo plane. But buried in the Air Force's 700 page report on the crash is testimony from a reservist who said his engineer had fixed a similar problem on a flight nearly five years earlier based on information in an Air Force directive. In the previously undisclosed testimony obtained by the Associated Press, Major Walt Mulder [Fox Mulder's brother??] told investigators he was flying from the United Kingdom to Bermuda in 1992 when gauges indicated a similar loss of power to his engines, appeared to be flaming out. Normal procedures would have been to shut down the engines to avoid fire. But Mulder's engineer had read a directive to pull a circuit breaker instead to synchronize the engines. ------- In brief, even with redundant systems to greater lower the odds of failure, Sh*t still happens.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Congressmen E-Mail List of adresses From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:59:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:12:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Congressmen E-Mail List of adresses >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:17:49 -0300 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> >Subject: CONGRESSMEN E-MAILING - List of adresses >Hello. >The list below may be useful to some of you. >Sincerely, >P.H.Andrade. > [list sorted by state] > > U.S. REPRESENTATIVES PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSTITUENT > ELECTRONIC MAIL SYSTEM. >(If your Representative is not yet on-line, please >be patient.) >Hon. Sonny Callahan AL01 CALLAHAN@HR.HOUSE.GOV [majority of list deleted for brevity] The list you have posted is very old, and will soon be outdated. If you need to contact your Representative, you should check www.house.gov for the latest information. I will provide a little background and information to help, but I don't have the time of details to provide a complete picture. The domain HR.HOUSE.GOV mentioned above is going to be terminated at the end of the year. It represents an email system that was installed by the Democractic leadership prior to the 1994 election, and a new system has been selected and installed since then. The domain associated with the new system is MAIL.HOUSE.GOV, and any address that references that domain should be around for a while. Please note that not all Members of the House have "Public E-mail" boxes. Because of spamming a system entitled "Write Your Rep" has been developed, which allows constituents to log into the House Web Page and forward a message to their Member after filing out a form. "Write Your Rep" mailboxes can't be reached directly via the Internet, however "Public E-mail" mailboxes can be. Again, not every Member has jumped onto this bandwagon, but it seems to be coming. In an environment where large mailings are carried around in laundary baskets, there is little desire to open up another conduit of communication. However, Members are becoming more computer literate and the current leadership appears to be pursuing "Cyber-Congress" technology. We'll have to see how quickly they all get there. Steven Kaeser steve@konsulting.com steve.kaeser@mail.house.gov
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Roswell From: "David K. Minehan" <midian@aljan.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:48:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:30:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:07:13 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: glennys mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au> > Subject: ROSWELL > > to you next week. Amazing that he is living in Australia isn't it? Hi Glynnis As Ted Bullpit said: "That'd be right!" I search all over the world for good UFO stuff and you find it here :-) ha ha (Well there is Valentich of course) :-) Regards David M... :-) -- **************************************** David K. Minehan 64 Young Road LAMBTON EAST 2299 NEWCASTLE New South Wales AUSTRALIA **************************************** Voice : +61 49 522 908 Fax/Data : +61 49 521 668 **************************************** e-mail: midian@aljan.com.au e-mail: midian@bigfoot.com online: http://www.aljan.com.au/~midian **************************************** Hiroshima 45 Chernobyl 86 Windows 95 **************************************** Hangin' for some Hagar **************************************** "Wat nie vrek maak nie maak vet" - What does not kill you makes you strong. **************************************** "Look on my wife and tremble o' ye mighty" - Horace Rumpole **************************************** "When people say they've seen little green men they're lying... They ain't green..." - Dwight Yokam **************************************** As soon as the human mind is confronted with facts which do not fit into its normal vision of the world, it struggles to overcome the discrepancy. And it usually enlists the help of emotion rather than intellect, since intellect would have to admit a gap in knowledge. - Johannes von Buttlar - The UFO Phenomenon ****************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND to Celebrate the 50th From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:26:28 -0400 Subject: UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND to Celebrate the 50th --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND to Celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Roswell Crash! Date: 97-06-18 18:31:27 EDT From: AOL News MVP Home Entertainment Inc. Releases Ultimate Special on UFO's With Over 50 Years of UFO's Caught on Tape! CANOGA PARK, Calif., June 18 /PRNewswire/ -- This July, over 100,000 people from around the world are expected to descend upon Roswell, New Mexico to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1947 alien crash. In celebration of the anniversary, MVP Home Entertainment, Inc. will release UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND, the unprecedented special that uncovers never-before-seen footage and eyewitness testimony to one of the greatest, most intriguing secrets of our century ... we are not alone! For the first time in history, viewers will be at the scenes of the world's most shocking alien encounters. UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND is the only title release poised to capture worldwide exposure from this decade's biggest UFO event. The title features over 50 years of UFO footage from around the world -- over 150 video/film clips and over 200 photos of alien craft from 22 countries around the world -- more than any other TV or video special ever. Included are recently declassified government documents confirming the Roswell crash. In a historical first, physical evidence is revealed to the public. Former government scientist Bob Lazar breaks his silence and reveals key information about Area 51 and S4. Viewers will go inside Area 51 to watch amazing never-before-seen disk test flight footage. From inside the military's top-secret research facility, learn how recovered alien craft operate, where they come from and why they're here. Additional highlights include: * A UFO car chase at over 70 miles per hour and a near-daylight UFO landing on water * Incredible home video footage of an alien craft dematerializing just feet from the camera * The largest UFO wave in history in Mexico City * Footage of alien probes as they scan power lines and buzz major cities Hosted by James Doohan ("Star Trek's" "Scotty") and produced by Christopher Wyatt (CBS "Day & Date") UFO'S ABOVE AND BEYOND addresses the topic of UFO's as never before. In 1978, the UN reported that since 1947 there had been 63,144 UFO sightings around the world -- one every four hours. SOURCE MVP Home Entertainment, Inc. CO: MVP Home Entertainment, Inc. ST: California IN: ENT SU: PDT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Corso Book From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:31:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso Book I was just contacted by Entertainment Tonight concerning an interview on the Roswell case. They told me (6-17-97) that they have an interview with Col. Corso scheduled in New York City this coming week. The news of his demise have been "greatly exaggerated". Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com Attn. AOL users, try; www.ufomagazine.com/default.CFM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:33:32 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' Kent Jeffrey appeared on my radio show, UFOs Tonite! during the hoop-la over the Alien Autopsy. While I have always maintained that the "Autopsy" was very suspect, Jeffrey said something that always bothered me. I have the entire show on cassette, but without transcribing it, do not have his exact words. To paraphrase, he said; "This (the autopsy) can't be real, the creature is too humanoid. An alien would not be humanoid" The exact wording can be heard on the show. But my question was, why not? After all, all the reports from Roswell (people who claimed to have seen the occupants) reported humanoids. How can we say what an occupant would look like? Over the last 50 years, most reports from around the world have described UFO occupants as humanoid. I found his assertion strange to say the least. After all, at the time he was pushing his Roswell Declaration very hard. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com AOL users, try www.ufomagazine.com/default.CFM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:44:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:15:11 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Kent Jeffrey appeared on my radio show, UFOs Tonite! during the hoop-la over >the Alien Autopsy. While I have always maintained that the "Autopsy" was very >suspect, Jeffrey said something that always bothered me. I have the entire >show on cassette, but without transcribing it, do not have his exact words. >To paraphrase, he said; >"This (the autopsy) can't be real, the creature is too humanoid. An alien >would not be humanoid" The exact wording can be heard on the show. But my >question was, why not? After all, all the reports from Roswell (people who >claimed to have seen the occupants) reported humanoids. How can we say what >an occupant would look like? Over the last 50 years, most reports from around >the world have described UFO occupants as humanoid. I found his assertion >strange to say the least. After all, at the time he was pushing his Roswell >Declaration very hard. >Don Ecker >UFO Magazine >www.ufomagazine.com While I can respect Jeffrey's decision to reverse himself with regard to the Roswell crash, I felt that his reaction to the Alien Autopsy "film" was far too intense. There were (are are) many who believe the "film" is a fraud, but Jeffrey took a proactive role in trying to prove that it HAD to be a fake. It would appear that he carried a number of pre-conceived notions around that weren't disclosed in public. I will admit that the timing of this reversal seems somewhat suspicious, but since his article on Roswell is (IMHO) written no better than his "Alien Autopsy" piece, I suspect it will fade to obscurity soon enough.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 USA TODAY Covers Arizona UFO Sighting From: Jim Totten <jim.totten@bcx.barco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:28:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:19:30 -0400 Subject: USA TODAY Covers Arizona UFO Sighting The June 18th edition of USA Today has devoted a whole page to the Arizona UFO sighting. Interesting reading. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:08:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:13:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: 18 Jun 97 13:05:06 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO converstion >Does NASA have an "official" explanation for this one??? Seems pretty >odd that they'd talk about something like this on an open, unscrambled >channel. Hi Bob, Just a riminder.... I still didn't see any evidence (and I'm waiting for 6 months now) of this conversation other than what is written in text on the web. Until John Locker comes up with some audio material, I'm regarding this as a hoax. Maybe all of us should send an inquiry to John Locker about this audio material. his e-mail address is satcom@cyserv1.cybase.co.uk Best Regards, Karel. ------------------------====### ATMM ###====--------------------- Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl Audax-Tros MultiMedia tel (+31) 035 - 625 45 45 Ceintuurbaan 2 fax (+31) 035 - 625 45 55 1217 HN Hilversum the Netherlands ------------------------====############====---------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Roswell - Most 'Convincing' Evidence From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:05:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:18:34 -0400 Subject: Roswell - Most 'Convincing' Evidence For my part, not as a front-line researcher but only from the standpoint of having learned as much as I could on this case in the last year, the single most convincing evidence for the argument that a ship did crash and that there were occupants is Stanton Friedman's collection of interviews on video. [If you haven't all seen the video, which this crowd probably has, prepare for a long litany of witnesses discussing their individual experiences] If you look at the Venn diagram of overlapping testimony, the 20-some Roswell citizens are sketching the picture pretty clearly and the overlapping set I find hard to ignore. Example: One of the major events they describe, for which I can't find another explanation, is the military's harsh intimidation of over 200 people in the town - name me another occurrence in the US in the 40s when that happened - death threats delivered to an 8 year old girl??? Locking up the rancher for two days of brainwashing and threats, so that he wouldn't even discuss it with his wife thereafter???? No balloon theory is sufficient to account for that Nazi-like behavior - maybe if they collectively stumbled into the bomb storage facility, otherwise why would they be so rabid about it?. Any "balloon debris" could have been explained away immediately without resorting to these methods. Not being idiots, the military/intelligence community would know that well - extreme measures are justified only by extreme circumstances. Unless you are blithely certain that they were lying, these ordinary everyday people, some of them living with their fear of reprisals for years before going public, you have to come up with a good explanation for the military's deplorable treatment of civilians connected with the Roswell incident. I haven't, other than the obvious one - the saucer crashed, there were bodies, & therefore the powers that be would stop at nothing to contain the incident. My two cents. Melanie Mecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Re: Corso Book From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:44:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:16:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Corso Book > From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:30:31 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso Book > I was just contacted by Entertainment Tonight concerning an interview on > the Roswell case. They told me (6-17-97) that they have an interview with > Col. Corso scheduled in New York City this coming week. The news > of his demise have been "greatly exaggerated". Good! I hope he comes to Roswell to promote his book, I'd like to check him out in person & hear what he has to say. It seems to me that, unless he was hurting for money to the extent that a sensationalist book was the only way he could think of to augment his retirement income, he knowingly risked his reputation and relationships with all of his peers on the other side in publishing this book - that's impressive in itself. If he were in the payment of the one or more groups on the alleged "conspiracy of silence" side of the house, he wouldn't be making those statements - he'd write a book like the others - just enough "maybe" to be tantalizing, plenty of disinformation to throw one off the track & keep the masses confused. I'd like to hear the answer to "why" from him. Let me know if you find out when the interview will be aired. Thanks! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:01:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:27:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' > From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' > Kent Jeffrey appeared on my radio show, UFOs Tonite! during the > hoop-la over the Alien Autopsy. While I have always maintained > that the "Autopsy" was very suspect, Jeffrey said something that > always bothered me. I have the entire show on cassette, but > without transcribing it, do not have his exact words. > To paraphrase, he said; > "This (the autopsy) can't be real, the creature is too humanoid. > An alien would not be humanoid" The exact wording can be heard > on the show. But my question was, why not? After all, all the > reports from Roswell (people who claimed to have seen the > occupants) reported humanoids. How can we say what an occupant > would look like? Over the last 50 years, most reports from > around the world have described UFO occupants as humanoid. I > found his assertion strange to say the least. After all, at the > time he was pushing his Roswell Declaration very hard. > Don, I would like to add to this with one other tiny observation. *IF* UFOs are real, and piloted by non-human biological entities, then *BY DEFINITION* Earth is not genetically isolated in the universe. Sheeeshhhh....
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jun 97 09:23:07 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:23:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' Don, Thanks for posting this info about Kent Jeffrey. Maybe people who have dismissed me for reporting it will listen to you. Back when he made this absurd statement on your program he was still "Mr. Roswell", and he was attacking something that many UFOlogists had dismissed as well, so he got away with it. Only a few of the more astute researchers, such as you, noticed how strange his statements were. In the intervening time I have shown conclusive proof in my talks at UFO Conferences that Kent's star witnesses against the AA film, the two cameramen MacGovern and Longo, don't know what they are talking about. I'm very concerned at the potential damage Kent Jeffrey and his cronies can do to the whole cause of UFO research. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:14:12 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:20:57 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >From: yogi@iadfw.net [Bill Ralls] >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:59:22 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >Errol and All, >This may be old news, but I thought it interesting. If anyone has >additional information concerning this, I would appreciate hearing >about it. >Regards, >Bill Ralls >UFO World http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/ufo.html >********************************************************************** > > 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > > 'Bodies' reportedly used to test chutes > >SOURCE: Ft.Worth Star Telegram >By Bill Hendrick - Cox News Service > ATLANTA - Long accused by UFO buffs of covering up visits by weird- >looking beings from outer space, the Pentagon plans to issue a report >soon contending that alien-like bodies have fallen from the skies over >New Mexico: man-made dummies. > Rubbery, humanoid-shaped dummies with no body hair, ears or noses. > According to the report, the dummies were part of secret tests on >high-altitude parachuting, plunging to the ground from giant balloons >in the 1940s and 1950s says Philip J. Klass, a scientist and author of >six books debunking UFOs as imaginary. Where the hell do these people get the idea that Phil Klass is a scientist? J.H. Christ! __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Corso's book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jun 97 09:23:00 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:22:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:39:46 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Corso's book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, >The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by >William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell >Telephone Laboratories. You are right, of course. But Greg did not read the Corso book carefully. I've now read it twice, and some sections multiple times. Nowhere does Corso say that alien technology lead to development of the transistor. He says that multitudes of oval , cracker-sized silicon wafers were found in the wreckage. Under magnification it was seen that the surface of these wafers was covered with microscopic circuits. In other words, integrated circuits on a silicon substrate, which is very different from the simple transistor. Let's criticize Corso on what he really says, shall we? Saying that the ideas behind fiber optics were well known in the past tells us nothing. According to Corso, the fiber optics recovered at Roswell were double-wall micro tubes. Knowing the idea of how something might work, and actually making it work are two very different things. It was not until we had the technology of making extreme purity glass that we were able to make fiber optics which were efficient enough for communications use. And, even then, micro lasers were essential for the whole shebang to function. Back in 1965 a group of physicists created a spectacular fake Fortean event in Washington, DC. They set up a ruby laser in a hotel room and projected a red moving "ghost" onto the side of a church miles away. This drew giant crowds of people who had no idea what was going on. Church leaders proclaimed a miracle. Scientists professed complete puzzlement. I was in the crowd on the second night of the "apparition", and was just as puzzled as everyone else. Fortunately, on the third night a mist came in from the Potomac and revealed the beam, and it was tracked to its source. My point in telling this story is that in 1965 lasers were unknown to practically everyone, even scientists, and such a hoax was possible. There is no reason on the face of it that Corso's stories about fiber optics and lasers can't be factual. I'm not convinced that they are, but I want to see objective, real reasons, not vague or incorrect ones. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Time Magazine Roswell Article From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:02:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:28:40 -0400 Subject: Time Magazine Roswell Article DID ALIENS REALLY LAND? AN EXAMINATION OF EVENTS IN 1947 SHOWS SOMETHING DID HAPPEN. BUT THE RESULTING STORIES GOT OUT OF HAND AND OUT OF THIS WORLD BY LEON JAROFF A mysterious crash, dead extraterrestrials littering the landscape, a government cover-up. Today the incident near Roswell, N.M., is an elaborate tale, growing ever more so with time and mythic imagination. But when it happened, it was almost imperceptible. The wreckage was strewn over a 200-yd. swath and consisted largely of rubber strips, tinfoil, wood sticks, Scotch tape, other tape with a floral design and what rancher W.W. ("Mac") Brazel described as a rather tough paper. On the day Brazel chanced upon the strange debris, June 14, 1947, he was making his rounds at the J.B. Foster sheep ranch, 85 miles northwest of Roswell. As he later recalled, he was in a hurry and didn't pay much attention to the scattered assortment. Ten days after Brazel's chance discovery, pilot Kenneth Arnold was flying near Washington State's Cascade Mountains when he spotted what he described as nine disklike objects flying in formation at about 1,200 m.p.h. Arnold's report, yet unexplained, immediately gave rise to other sightings, and by July 4, newspapers were heralding literally hundreds of reports of "flying saucers" in skies across the nation. But Brazel had no radio in his ranch shack and was unaware of the sightings until July 5, when he drove to the nearby town of Corona, heard about the saucers and may have learned of a rumored reward for anyone who recovered one. By then, Brazel later told the Roswell Daily Record, he had already returned to the littered field with his wife and two children, gathered the debris and taken it home. On July 7, while in Roswell to sell wool, Brazel dropped by the office of Sheriff George Wilcox, where, he recalled, he "whispered kinda confidential-like" that he might have found a flying disk. Sheriff Wilcox immediately phoned nearby Roswell Army Air Field, home of the 509th Bomb Group, and notified Major Jesse Marcel, the group intelligence officer. Barely able to control his excitement, Marcel sped into town with counterintelligence corps officer Sheridan Cavitt, picked up Brazel and headed out to the ranch. After collecting the debris--which Brazel later reported weighed no more than 5 lbs.--they stowed it in the trunk of Marcel's Buick. On his way back to Roswell, Marcel stopped at his home to show off the booty. Marcel's son Jesse Jr., now 60 and a doctor in Helena, Mont., remembers being awakened by his father and shown tinfoil, plastic, "beams or struts" that seemed metallic, and some strange markings that he thought resembled "hieroglyphics." The younger Marcel was only 10 at the time, but, he told TIME last week, he recalls that his father "was pretty excited, and I kind of think he said 'flying saucers.'" That is most likely the description Major Marcel used when he returned to the airfield. As Walter Haut, who was then the 509th's press officer, tells it, he was ordered by Colonel William Blanchard, the group commander, to issue a press release. Haut, now 75 (he and his wife have license plates that read MR UFO and MRS UFO), remembers Blanchard's saying, "We have in our possession a flying saucer. This thing crashed north of Roswell, and we've shipped it all to General Ramey, 8th Air Force at Fort Worth." Haut's press release caused a sensation. RAAF CAPTURES FLYING SAUCER ON RANCH IN ROSWELL REGION, proclaimed the Roswell Daily Record on July 8. Word of the "capture" quickly spread, and the phone lines in the offices of Sheriff Wilcox and First Lieut. Haut were jammed for hours with press inquiries from around the world. The furor was short-lived. At 8th Air Force headquarters the same night, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, after consultations with his weather forecaster, Warrant Officer Irving Newton, called in the local press and announced that the debris was the remnants not of a saucer but of a high-altitude weather balloon. The sticks and tinfoil, he explained, were from a reflector used to track the balloon by radar. The next day, under the headline GENERAL RAMEY EMPTIES ROSWELL SAUCER, the Daily Record reported his retraction and explanation. In the same edition, the paper quoted rancher Brazel, overwhelmed by the uproar and embarrassed: "If I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it." Tranquillity returned to Roswell, and three decades would pass before any more excitement was stirred. Enter Stanton Friedman, a former itinerant nuclear physicist now living in New Brunswick, Canada, who has long been, in his words, "a clear-cut, unambiguous UFOlogist." In 1978, while waiting in a Baton Rouge, La., television station for an interview, Friedman was told that Jesse Marcel, long retired from the Air Force and living nearby, had once handled the wreckage of a UFO. After quizzing Marcel, who still believed the debris he retrieved was extraterrestrial, Friedman reviewed the old stories about Roswell, painstakingly sought out and interviewed other witnesses, and came to a dramatic conclusion: there had been a cover-up of "cosmic Watergate" proportions. His research and conclusions became the basis of the 1980 book The Roswell Incident, co-written by Charles Berlitz (author of The Bermuda Triangle) and UFO investigator William Moore. Its publication put Roswell back on the map. Mentioned briefly in the book was a yarn, told secondhand to Friedman by a couple who attended one of his lectures in 1972. They claimed that a friend named Grady ("Barney") Barnett, now dead, had told them about coming upon a crashed saucer on the Plains of San Agustin, N.M., about 150 miles west of the Foster ranch, in 1947. Before being shooed away by military police, he claimed, he had spotted several little bodies strewn nearby. Since the story had no apparent connection to Roswell and was given scant credence by Friedman and the authors, it was generally ignored. Yet it was the UFO era's first mention of alien casualties. But not the last. In 1988, responding to the continuing speculation about Roswell, the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) in Chicago sponsored a team to seek out the crash site, recover any remaining debris and interview surviving "witnesses." Three years later the key members of that team, science-fiction author Kevin Randle and CUFOS investigator Don Schmitt, published their conclusions in the book UFO Crash at Roswell. In addition to recovering a UFO at Roswell, they charged, the government had found and spirited away the remnants of its crew, several little alien bodies. Randle and Schmitt bolstered their tale with accounts by Roswell witnesses, some of whom had earlier been ferreted out and interviewed by Friedman. The most notable of their sources was Glenn Dennis, who in 1947 was 22 and working as a mortician. Dennis told of receiving inquiries from the air base that July about the availability of child-size coffins and procedures for embalming bodies that had been exposed to the weather for days. Even more intriguing, he claimed that he had seen strange activity at the base hospital early in July and had been ordered to leave after encountering a hysterical Army nurse, who later told him she had aided doctors performing autopsies on strange-looking, small bodies. The nurse, he added, had sworn him to secrecy and had been transferred to England, and flown out of the base shortly after they spoke. Later, he said, he heard that she had been killed in a plane crash. Dennis, who still lives near Roswell, claims that until 1990, the only person he ever told about the strange goings-on was his father. Why? "I didn't want to get mixed up in this mess." Friedman, meanwhile, was pursuing a new lead. His preoccupation with UFOs had landed him a stint as adviser for a 1989 episode of the TV show Unsolved Mysteries that dealt with Roswell and other purported UFO crashes, including the one that ostensibly occurred in 1947 on the Plains of San Agustin. One viewer of that show, Gerald Anderson, responded quickly to an 800 number flashed on the screen, protesting that the re-enactment of the event was inaccurate. For one thing, he told the operator, the shape of the crashed spacecraft was wrong. And how did he know? Anderson, now a resident of Springfield, Mo., explained that he moved to New Mexico with his family in 1947, when he was five, and that on a rock-hunting outing on the Plains of San Agustin, the group had come across the wrecked craft. Friedman was ecstatic. This seemed to be solid confirmation of the story casually mentioned in The Roswell Incident. He arranged to have John Carpenter, a Springfield therapist, interview Anderson. Carpenter, who also directed investigations for the local chapter of MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, conducted several sessions with Anderson, often using hypnosis, presumably to help him "recover" buried memories of the event. Anderson later told the Springfield News-Leader: "We all went up ...to it [a large silver disk]. There were three creatures, three bodies, lying on the ground underneath this thing in the shade. Two weren't moving, and the third one obviously was having trouble breathing, like when you have broken ribs. There was a fourth one [that]...apparently had been giving first aid to the others." Soon after, Anderson claimed, the military arrived, warned everyone to forget what they had seen and "unceremoniously ushered" the civilians away from the site. And why hadn't Anderson ever told his story before? As he grew into manhood, he explains, he "tucked" away the memory. "I learned you just don't go up to the average person on the street and say, 'Damn, know what I saw?'" Armed with his new evidence, Friedman and UFO researcher Don Berliner co-authored their own book, Crash at Corona, in 1992. Their conclusion: the government recovered not one but two saucers in July 1947, along with seven dead extraterrestrials and one that was still alive. The first craft, they claimed, crashed near Corona after some kind of midair accident that showered debris on the Foster ranch. And the second, they wrote, was surely the one Anderson saw. In their 1994 sequel, The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, Randle and Schmitt introduced still more people they called witnesses. One was Roswell resident Frank Kaufman (called Steve MacKenzie in the book because he initially preferred anonymity). He maintained that he was part of a military contingent that had searched for a crashed saucer and, 40 miles south of the Foster sheep ranch, had discovered a craft shaped like a plane fuselage, its nose buried in a sandy hill. Through a cracked section, he insisted, he saw several little bodies. Another tale was told by a Carlsbad, N.M., resident, Jim Ragsdale, who said he and a woman friend, camping out in an area north of Roswell during the Fourth of July weekend in 1947, were amorously involved one night when they saw an object flash overhead and crash not far away. Seeking out the wreck, he said, they discovered a crashed saucer and, using a flashlight, spotted several little corpses. They returned in the morning to get a better look but beat a hasty retreat when they saw a military convoy approaching. Roswell researchers agree that something happened out there, but they are a rancorous bunch, given to ferocious infighting. Collaborators become enemies, one calls another a "pathological liar," another attempts to block publication of a rival's book, and they relish discrediting each other's witnesses. The bete noire of the Roswell community is a former Aviation Week senior editor named Philip Klass, who now publishes the Skeptics' UFO Newsletter, a bimonthly that regularly exposes duplicity and deflates UFO claims. Roswell believers are hard pressed, for example, to counter Klass's point that while they argue about whether the crash date was July 2 or July 4, Brazel reported unequivocally that he discovered the debris on June 14. Klass has constantly quoted secret documents, recently released under the Freedom of Information Act, showing that well after the Roswell incident, the nation's top security officials were still seeking physical evidence--any evidence--that UFOs are real. Minutes of an Air Force Scientific Advisory Board meeting convened on March 17, 1948, for example, quote Colonel Howard McCoy, then chief of intelligence at what is now the Wright Patterson Air Force Base (where the bodies and debris were supposedly shipped): "We are running down every [UFO] report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of these crash in an area so that we could recover whatever they are." As Klass sees it, "The real Roswell-crashed-saucer cover-up" is not by the U.S. government but "by the authors of these books and by producers of television shows who exploit the 'Roswell incident' for their own financial gain." Still, as the Roswell controversy becomes more heated, Washington has been under increasing pressure to resolve it. At the urging of New Mexico Representative Steven Schiff, who complained about a government "cover-up" of Roswell and the "runaround" he was getting from the Pentagon, the General Accounting Office announced in January 1994 that it would launch a hunt for any documents related to the "incident." That announcement was noted in the Washington Post under the headline "GAO Turns to Alien Turf in Probe: Bodies of space voyagers said to have disappeared in 1947." Stung by the publicity, the Air Force reacted defensively. It promptly began a six-month investigation of its own, and released its report the following July. The Air Force investigators, under Colonel Richard Weaver, interviewed the surviving firsthand witnesses to the debris recovery, searched records and followed leads that brought them to Charles Moore, a scientist who in 1947 was working on the then top-secret Project Mogul. Mogul, Moore explained, involved launching trains of balloons that carried acoustical equipment designed to monitor Soviet nuclear tests. So that the balloons could be tracked by radar, they were equipped with corner reflectors. Records showed that one such balloon train was launched on June 4 and was tracked to within 20 miles of the Foster ranch before it disappeared from the radar scopes in mid-June. Even more telling, Moore reported, the corner reflectors were put together with beams made of balsa wood and coated with "Elmer's-type" glue (to strengthen them). Also, he noted, the New York toy company that manufactured the reflectors had reinforced the seams with leftover tape that Moore recalled had "pinkish-purple abstract flower-like designs"--markings that Major Marcel could have interpreted as hieroglyphics. Finally, the Air Force report stated, "there was no indication in official records from the [1947] period that there was heightened military operational or security activity which should have been generated if this was, in fact, the first recovery of materials and/or persons from another world." The GAO probe, released in 1995, reported much the same conclusion. Perhaps even more disturbing to Roswell buffs was "Roswell in Perspective," an article in the publication of the Fund for UFO Research. That report was the product of a two-year investigation by Karl Pflock, who, after a career that included stints in the CIA and the Pentagon, resigned to become a full-time UFO investigator and writer. Pflock, who still believes that some UFOs are extraterrestrial, nonetheless diligently pursued leads and helped uncover the Charles Moore revelations. Pflock also found gaping holes in the testimony of such "witnesses" as Frank Kaufman and Jim Ragsdale. Pflock's conclusion: "It is all but certain that at least the great majority, if not all, of what was found at the debris field on the Foster ranch" was the wreckage of a Project Mogul balloon. Still another recent defector from the ranks of the hopeful is Kent Jeffrey, a Delta Air Lines pilot and UFO buff best known for his "Roswell Declaration," a petition urging the Federal Government to promptly release all documents pertaining to Roswell. Because his father had known Colonel Blanchard of the 509th Bomb Command, Jeffrey was able to wangle an invitation to the 1996 reunion of the 509th. There he met pilots stationed at Roswell in 1947, most of whom, he found, had "heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started." After chasing down other sources suggested by 509th pilots, Jeffrey was convinced. "In essence," he says, "the 1947 Roswell case has turned out to be a red herring, diverting time and resources away from research into the real UFO phenomenon." Later this month, the Air Force will release the results of its second study, launched after UFOlogists complained that its 1994 report did not address the issue of alien bodies. ("It seemed rational to us," explains the Air Force's Weaver, "that since we proved there were no UFOs, it automatically meant no aliens.") For a few years after 1947, the report will explain, the Air Force conducted experiments that involved dropping dummies from high-altitude balloons to study the results of the impact. Witnesses' descriptions of the "aliens," the Air Force notes, closely match the characteristics of the dummies: 3 1/2 ft. to 4 ft. tall, bluish skin coloration and no ears, hair, eyebrows or eyelashes. "What quite likely happened," says Weaver, "is that people who saw these dummies mistook them for aliens." And, he notes, because no mention of aliens was made until 1978, those "who were interviewed were trying to recall events that took place 30 years earlier." Weaver blames UFOlogists for "linking" these sightings, which occurred after 1947, to the original Roswell incident. Despite the Air Force reports, despite Pflock and Jeffrey, Roswell believers remain unshaken. "If you can't attack the data," Friedman says, "attack the people by saying they are nuts, kooks, quacks ... The evidence is overwhelming," he insists, "that planet Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial life." The millions of Americans who believe that U.S. officials are withholding the truth about Roswell specifically and UFOs in general are not about to be swayed by the facts. Echoing The X-Files, they insist the truth is still out there. Says Weaver: "What I hadn't realized [before we issued our first report] was the vehemence of the pro-UFO people. Telling them there was no saucer at Roswell was like telling a kid there is no Santa Claus." With the urge to believe so strong, the legend of Roswell will doubtless go on and on. --Reported by James Willwerth/Roswell, Elaine Rivera/New York and Chandrani Ghosh/Washington (c) Time Magazine, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Ed Komarek & Windows 95 From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:11:10 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:23:13 -0400 Subject: Ed Komarek & Windows 95 Dear List: I've been without a computer for five days now and if you don't think undermining Western civilization on one hand, and ufology on the other, isn't hard work in its own right, just try doing it without a hard drive sometime--courtesy of an attempt to uninstall Windows 95 after it started deleting little unimportant pieces of my system on its own, small things like the CD-ROM drive, printer and scanner. Call me paranoid if you must--but Plug and Play, ha! Anyway, I'm back, to find 262 email messages waiting. God, what a good UFO list! The big news in my absence seems to be the Corso book. There is only one way to describe it: as the book that Ed Komarek has waited all his life for. A book that not only rewrites Roswell history, but the history of science and the 20th century itself, no mean feat, let me tell you, for a retired Colonel who has obviously had too much time on his hands for the last 30 years, apparently waiting for Trudeau--to kick the bucket. It is an astoundingly bad book that simply has to be read to be believed, one that makes its author, Philip Corso, the single most important person who ever lived in the 20th century, literally responsible for half the technology on the planet and, ultimately, for the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the successful conclusion of the Cold War, and the erection of an impenetrable anti-alien defense system. The book presented several problems for Corso and co-author Birnes, but I have to admit they handled them like pros. I've only got time for a brief example. Since Corso wasn't physically present at Roswell, he has to write himself into the story somehow. To do this, he has a truck convoy pass through Fort Riley, Kansas, where he was stationed at the time, so he could glimpse a dead alien, even when absolutely every other witness who has ever testified about it has always had the material going by air. He seems confused about the actual date, ignores the Brazel debris field almost entirely, and instead has Marcel present at the second crash site, where the bodies are recovered, something Marcel, interviewed numerous times, somehow forgot to mention each time. I consider myself a hardened veteran of UFO literature, but there were several occasions when I simply had to laugh aloud while reading this one. Perhaps the most laughable episode is the rationale for why some of the best minds in the world had failed to make any significant analysis or use of the flying saucer debris until superhuman Corso arrived on the scene 14 years later to by God get things going, which he offhandedly manages in the less than two years before he retires, thereby altering the world as we thought we knew it. Apparently, the stuff just got lost track of by the supergeniuses in charge of the UFO cover up, including, literally, a file cabinet of the stuff casually stashed in General Trudeau's Pentagon office to hide it from the CIA, gathering dust. I only stopped laughing when Windows 95 crashed my system and dark thoughts about Microsoft occupied my attention. Both events convinced me that there is indeed a conspiracy out there somewhere between Corso and Bill Gates to do *something*, I just haven't figured out exactly what yet, although I suspect it has something to do with reducing global overpopulation via Laughing Sickness. When I have all the sordid details sorted out, this List will be the first to know. In the meantime, support your local Apple dealer and buy a Macintosh. And for God's sakes, buy and read this book. Corso deserves every penny--for chutzpa, if nothing else. At least we know who to call when the Congressional UFO jeerings, I mean, hearings, finally kick in -- Philip J. Corso. He'll have 'em rolling in the aisles and then we can pick *their* pockets.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Question: Thurmond Bait and Switch From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:59:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:24:42 -0400 Subject: Question: Thurmond Bait and Switch Kevin Randle has told us that from material he has, Corso [probably more properly Corso's co-author and agent] shopped around a book proposal which had Corso as a member of MJ-12. "A bait and switch?" US Senators have big staffs. Sorry to disillusion list members that think they do everything in their offices. Decisions on a lot of things are left to staff. If Corso [or more likely his co-author and agent] sent a summary of his book and a request to do forward to Thurmond, the only thing Thurmond might have heard was that Corso had sent a proposal and requested a forward. Thurmond might have approved the request for a forward sight unseen. Corso was a former associate and political ally. He had entree with Thurmond which might also have overruled any doubts the staff might have expressed. In the world of modern book publishing where a book can be on the way to distributors 72 hours, a request for an forward with only a proposal is not unusual. You and I would have wanted to see the finished product. Corso traded on his previous relationship with Thurmond. Jan Aldrich [P. S. Further to the Congressional Staffs. The Army got caught in a big lie about the soldier Skill Qualification Test (SQT). Congress wanted them changed immediately and appropriated money for the changes. They Army thought "immediately" meant phased in over a long period of time. One of the staff officers from Ft Sill went to hearing "to put on a dog and pony show about the great and wonderful things we were doing in SQTs." The hearings never got to him. He said everytime the Army representatives would say something on the matter aids sitting behind the Congressman would whip out a folder and place it in front of the Congressman. It turned out that two of the staff members were fromer Army captains who obviously knew the story. The Army had to demur, and there was a big shake up in SQTs "immediately." Lucky me, I got to live through it.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Corso's book From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:53:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:28:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:39:46 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Corso's book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>Subject: Corso's book >>Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:25 -0400 >Greg wrote: >>The key to Corso's UFO information is the title of the book -- "The >>Day After Roswell." This refers to something initially quite limited, >>and fascinating -- what happened to the crash debris. Corso says that >>it initially got scattered scientific study, some of which led to the >>development of the transitor. >Greg, >The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by >William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell >Telephone Laboratories. This is true. But at that time this was the "neanderthal" fo transistors and not even a practical or useful product. >Briefly setting this in some perspective: >John V. Atanasoff, a professor at Iowa State College, and Clifford >Berry, a graduate student, conceived an all-electronic computer that >applied Boolean algebra to computer circuitry. In 1939, they designed >a prototype and in 1973, a judge declared it to be the first automatic >digital computer. Invention of the idea of a functional computer based on simple already existing mathematics is not very phenomenal. >The code-breaking Colossus computer was designed and built in 1941 at >the University of Manchester, England and Colossus Mark II followed >in 1944. So? What does this prove? >The first information-processing digital computer actually built was >the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator, or Mark I computer. >Completed in 1944, this electromechanical device was designed by >American Howard H. Aiken, a Harvard engineer working with IBM. >Around half the length of a football field and containing some 500 >miles of wiring, its purpose was to create ballistic charts for the >U.S. Navy. I'm so impressed. >February of 1946 saw an unveiling of the Electronic Numerical >Integrator and Computer (ENIAC), the result of a joint project between >the U.S. government and the University of Pennsylvania. Consisting of >17,468 vacuum tubes, some 70,000 resistors and 5 million soldered >joints, it weighed approximately 30 tons and required 1000 square feet >of floor space. Entirely electronic, it consumed up to 160 kilowatts >of power, sufficient to dim the lights in part of Philadelphia. Sounds real high-tech to me! >Vacuum tubes were required for electromechanical circuit switching and >the regulated conduction of electrical current - basically switching >and amplification - but they consumed too much power, gave off too >much heat, took up too much space, cost too much to produce, and they >burned out. >Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen's research addressed these problems and >in searching for a suitable alternative they decided to try >semiconductors, materials that were adequate, although not >exceptional, conductors of electricity. >Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar diodes, >they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that small >changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a suitable >medium would produce active electronic effects and when they passed >current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated the >principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid >semiconducting material. >Their concept was based on the fact that it is possible to selectively >control the flow of electricity through silicon, designating some >areas as current conductors and adjacent areas as insulators. >The point-contact transistor amplifier became the building block for >all modern electronics and the foundation for microchip and computer >technology. A simple solution to a simple problem, too bad they had to work with stone axes and bearskins. >>But then it languished, until the early '60s when Corso went to work >>for a foreign technology unit of the army. >[...] >>If somebody's thinking is stimulated by a fragment of an alien TV >>set, they still have to theorize and experiment to imitate the thing >>-- and it's those theories and experiments that show up in published >>data, not the inspiration for them. >As for lasers and fibre (fiber) optics... >Einstein is credited as the "Father" of the laser. In 1917, he >theorised photons and stimulated emission and was awarded the Nobel >prize for his work. It's one thing to concieve of a thing, quite another to make a practical working model. >The first microwave laser was with us in 1954 and projected a beam of >ammonia molecules through a system of focusing electrodes. The first >optical laser appeared in 1960, it's design based on a rod of ruby >crystal which produced pulses of red light. >In 1961, a laser based on a mixture of helium and neon gases was >constructed and produced continuous output of red light. >Shortly after the announcement of the first successful optical laser, >other laboratories around the world successfully lased different >substrates and as manufacturing techniques improved, lasers rapidly >made the transition from the laboratory to commercial applications. Sounds a little late for a Roswell explanation. >The principle behind fibre optics dates back to antiquity and has been >used for centuries in prisms and illuminated fountains. >In 1870, Englishman John Tyndall demonstrated to the Royal Society >that light travelled along a curved stream of water and in 1880, >Scotsman Alexander Graham Bell took the concept further in his >photophone experiment, which transmitted voice signals on beams of >light. Bell shelved the idea, as there was too much interference with >the light beam and the signals couldn't travel any meaningful >distance. >In 1926, another Scotsman, John Logie Baird, patented an early form >of colour television which used glass rods to carry light. An idea >ahead of its time, little progress was made until the 1950's when the >first fibrescopes were developed. Still too late for Roswell. >Although scientists were aware that optical fibre could transmit >light, the transmission interference seemed to be an insurmountable >problem and it wasn't until 1970 that Corning Glass researchers, Drs >Robert Maurer, Donald Keck, and Peter Schultz designed and produced >the first optical fibre which met the specification for wide use in >telecommunications. What are you saying? They sent their fiberoptic cables 23 years back in time? >The discovery by the Corning group was soon recognised as a >breakthrough and led the way for the commercialisation of optical >fibre as a revolution in telecommunications. >These are all of course verifiable facts. I have no trouble accepting your facts, but what is the relavence? >James. >E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com If someone said all our current technology was invented by aliens and found and then used by us, I would dissagree. If someone said that early crude human technologies were advanced quickly and suddenly by stealing (through reverse engineering) alien technology, I would say that could be so. Especially when you consider how blazingly fast our technology has advanced in the past 50 years. Compare it to the last 200. If remains found at Roswell are true fibreoptics and real functional transistors and/or computer chips, etc. then it's obvious that WE did not invent them and they would have to be alien in nature. The materials simply didn't exist in that form in our technology at that time. Fiberoptic cables in 1947? That's pretty damning evidence of superior technology. Mogul Shmogul. Give me a break. History lessons about early prototypes and theories do not convince me that human technology was fully functional to create the Roswell debris. And please don't pull a Kent Jeffrey by pretending it's only a weather ballon by ignoring the testimony of all the witnesses who don't fit your theory. I wish people would spend more time thinking things out thoroughly before trying to impose simplistic or inapplicable explanations to debunk something. I do not agree with the idea Sagan presented that basically said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. This is a "human" attitude. Nature, computers and the universe do not care what we think is or isn't. The same level of proof used to prove the existence of planets, black holes, or other scientific discoveries should apply to UFO's. No more, no less. Just a hundred years ago they would have laughed at most of the technology we have today- it would have been UFO's to them. Who cares how much it takes to convince a bunch of techno-neaderthals? A lot of so-called self-proclaimed experts (i.e. authors), take a stand on the Roswell issue based on what slice of the data pie they think they can swallow. If they want to be that way so be it. I take offense when they make arrogant proclamations that their view is the truth, period, stop thinking and agree with them or you're a fool. (Listening Kent?) Mr. Jeffrey proved nothing, except he has chosen his belief system about Roswell (his slice of the data pie). I did not find his arguments convincing and found him violating Stan Friedman's addage: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence many many times. I don't agree with the assumption made many times that those men he interviewed would have to be aware of what was going on. The UFO issue has always been at the most top of top secret issues in the military and their paranoia would not allow them to tell a soul who did't need to know, and even then skipping over some of those who should know. If secrecy back then was what Kent and his pilot friends think it was, the UFO enigma would have been solved long ago. I implore researchers out there to stop trying to find the simplest way to debunk Roswell/UFO's and stick to a thorough, scientific, unprejudiced approach. You have to incorporated all the evidence, not just the stuff that appeals to you or fits your explanation. And another thing, stop lambasting and/or dismissing witnesses because you do not like their personalities or the way they think/act. If their testimony does not seem to jibe once in a while, there are perfectly good human reasons other than lying. Those witnesses who are in question should be re-interviewed again, at length, in a positive and cooperative situation so they can get it out right. An investigators job is to sort out opinion, fact, contamination, and distorted memories if they exist and obtain the best information possible-not dismiss them because they aren't the perfect witnesses. I have had a couple of witnesses who were unsure of some of their facts, but through lengthy process of elimination, and discussion of details, the full data can be accurately obtained. If you care to bother. Some out there just don't have the time or patience. Why do they bother at all? How trustworthy is your source? Moore/Shandera are highly suspect due to their past shenanegans with the military (Doty, etc.). Anyone willing to sleep with the devil is not to be trusted! And neither is thier info. Never use second hand testimony!!!! Get it from the source! You can't trust other researchers distortions/interpretations and bad memory. Well documented and backed up research info may be acceptable if it is checked first for accuracy. If so and so said such and such to someone else and it finally got back to me, I wouldn't give it much credence. Also, How can you trust all these high ranking officials in the military to tell the truth when they have already sighned their lives away promising never to divulge their secrets? Those rare men with the courage to believe the public's right to know is higher than their filthy secrecy deserve to be respected. They have a higher moral standard. Military morality is an oxymoron. I am not just criticising Kent Jeffrey, here. There are many more doing the same things in different ways. In debunkery, everything unbelieved is considered rediculous, and eliminated outright on that basis. Nothing is rediculous to me, just proven, unproven, or waiting for enough facts to do one or the other. Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Kent's worldview.... From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:23:37 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:11:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent's worldview.... > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:37:27 -0500 > From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Kent's worldview.... > What a load of assumptions. The UFO phenomenon is "real", if you count > nothing but it's effect on human culture for at least a few thousand > years as having some basis in "reality". When we examine the phenomena > that encompass the enigma we call UFO, and by that I mean *all* of it, > there is no reason to think that the ETH hypothesis as stated above has > anything to do with these anamolous whichamaggigers flitting around our > sky, leaving their imprints on our minds, myths, religions, and > cultures. > Kent attempts to divorce the phenomenon from the way it presents itself > to us, and then bottle it into his narrow view of reality, where it > clearly doesn't want to fit. > > UFOs have produced most world religions and continue to do so yet > today. The intelligence behind the UFO (the trickster archetype if you > prefer) operates as a control mechanism on humanity manipulating our > myths. These intruders operate a psychological program of mass mind > manipulation that makes the CIA green with envy even today. The grand > UFO cover up is, was, and always has been operated by the UFOs > themselves. > UFOs exist, that is for sure. They are enmeshed in all human religions, > cultures, and myths. It is no more valid to refer to them as ET in a > spaceship than it is for Pat Robertson to refer to them as demon-spawn. > Their origin could well exist beyond what our senses can ever perceive > or understand. > Are they important? Unless you belong to a particularily strong > religious persuasion, Mormanism, Catholocism, Judaism, Materialism, or > UFOlogy, no, they are not. > John Wow. Talk about "a loud of assumptions." John makes Kent Jeffrey seem the soul of modesty by comparison. Of course we've heard this sort of thing before, this desire to occultize the UFO phenomenon at the expense of reason and evidence. Elsewhere I've written extensively on this desire to magnify a genuine mystery out of all proportion. There is no good evidence that anything like the modern UFO phenomenon has been around much more than 200 years -- conclusions Eddie Bullard and I came to independently in the course of our efforts to trace the history of sightings. Michael Swords has written eloquently (in JUFOS and elsewhere) on the degree to which reported UFO phenomena correspond to what science tells us what ET visitors would look like and how they would behave. To say that UFOs are enmeshed in all cultures and myths is to speculate wildly, unless you consider Erich von Daniken credible. A good, thoughtful debunking of this sort of thing appears in Bullard's essay "Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" in the second volume of my UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA. When we discuss the UFO phenomenon, it would be wise, I think, if we stuck to what we can reasonably demonstrate, not just to what we want to be true. That's should be as true for John as for Kent. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:52:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > Date: 18 Jun 97 16:37:53 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:19:40 -0500 > >From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >I would like to make a comment on this line of argument from Kent. Some > >folks have been studying this whole UFO thang for a really long time. > >Kent sets up an interesting straw man argument here saying that "If this > >UFO crash were an extraterrestrial vehical operating in time and space > >as we know it, corresponding to all of the laws of physics as we > >understand them, and the product of a technological society of > >intelligent creatures who independently evolved from human beings, a > >vehicle which by definition must have traveled light years subject to > >relativistic physics then................................" > >What a load of assumptions. > John, > At last the voice of reason! I very much agree with these assessments of Kent's assumptions. It's an oxymoron to imply that aliens sufficiently evolved to have traveled from there to here, and who could be tens of thousands of years farther along in their civilization than we are, would be constrained by the laws of physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand those laws! Even Carl Sagan, back in his more liberal days, in a couple of his papers on the subject in peer-reviewed journals, seconded Arthur C. Clark in stating that what such aliens could do should seem like magic to us. But alas, he quit saying this into the 1980s after realizing, perhaps, that his colleagues in astronomy, though they might go along with A. C. Clark's statement in general, wouldn't allow it to apply to their own field of expertise, and wouldn't allow that any alternatives exist to the constraints we presently see associated with rocketry and relativity. But then, Sagan might indeed have played a role akin to Menzel on MJ 12, and been acting hypocritically since then. As for the reliability of alien technology and UFO crashes, such crashes could indeed represent just a very tiny percentage of UFO air mileage, if one keeps in mind the likelihood that UFOs normally operate invisibly, or "cloaked" (or perhaps travel so fast we can't see them), and only become visible when they wish to expose themselves to a few witnesses, or upon a crash. So UFOs could be much more prevalent than Kent would imagine. And then one needs to keep in mind the possibility that the crashed UFOs in NM were allowed by other aliens to crash for some reason (to see how governments would handle the evidence,...). The radar hypothesis seems unlikely to me, but not impossibly so. Kent didn't consider such possibilities. Jim Deardorff Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 19 Bible Code (was 'London-Bound'} From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jun 97 14:55:04 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:55:24 -0400 Subject: Bible Code (was 'London-Bound'} >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:15:00 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: London-Bound John Wrote; >The Rabbi told me of three mathematical systems used for decoding the >Bible. Just FYI, ----------------- PUBLIC STATEMENT BY HAROLD GANS SENIOR CRYPTOLOGIC MATHEMATICIAN, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, RETIRED. PRESENTLY INDEPENDENT MATHEMATICAL CONSULTANT. I have reviewed the book "The Bible Code" by M. Drosnin. 1. The book states that codes were found in the book of Genesis by Doron Witztum and Eliyahu Rips. An experiment was performed using scientific protocols specified by independent reviewers. The results of the experiment provided extremely strong statistical evidence for the existence of the encoding of great Jewish sages' names and dates of birth and death in the Hebrew text of the book of Genesis. This is all true. 2. The book states that I undertook an independent evaluation of the Witztum - Rips experiment. I duplicated their experiment and provided corroboration of their results. This is correct. 3. The book states that I also performed a new experiment, using the same methodology of Witztum and Rips, in which I found that the sages' names were also encoded in Genesis with their respective cities of birth and death. The statistical results obtained were even stronger than that obtained for the first experiment. This is all true. 4. The book also indicates that in spite of concerted efforts by many, no fatal mathematical flaw has been uncovered in the Witztum - Rips experiment. This too, is correct. 5. The book states that the codes in the Torah can be used to predict future events. This is absolutely unfounded. There is no scientific or mathematical basis for such a statement, and the reasoning used to come to such a conclusion in the book is logically flawed. While it is true that some historical events have been shown to be encoded in the Book of Genesis in certain configurations, it is absolutely not true that every similar configuration of "encoded" words necessarily represents a potential historical event. In fact, quite the opposite is true: most such configurations will be quite random and are expected to occur in any text of sufficient length. Mr. Drosnin states that his "prediction" of the assasination of Prime Minister Rabin is "proof" that the "Bible Code" can be used to predict the future. A single success, regardless of how spectacular, or even several such "successful" predictions proves absolutely nothing unless the predictions are made and evaluated under carefully controlled conditions. Any respectable scientist knows that "anecdotal" evidence never proves anything. 6. A plethora of books have appeared over the last several months, concerning the codes. Unless the work is reviewed by qualified scientists or mathematicians, the reader accepts such a book at his own risk. 7. After exhaustive analysis, I have reached the conclusion that the only information that can be derived from the codes discovered in Genesis is that they exist, and the probability that they are mere coincidence is vanishingly small. Harold Gans, June 3, 1997 --------------------------- I haven't checked this for format, but it seems OK. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Russian SPACE FORCE overnight news in last 6 hrs From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:49:23 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:19:46 -0400 Subject: Russian SPACE FORCE overnight news in last 6 hrs http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/picpg.htm On the 18th June 1997 At midnight Moscow time. VOR announced that Russia's Proton-K rocket, has put into orbit 7 satellite's by the Russia's Military Cosmic Forces. "The single Russia rocket "Proton K" has put into orbit seven satellites of the American global system Iridium" (nicked named get rid of them). "The rocket was launched from Bykanour(?) cosmodrome(?) by "Russia Military Cosmic Forces"............ at 18 hour seven minutes Moscow time". Each of these seven space vehicles weights 650 Kilograms. (IE Hightech) End of statement. Regards Ross Dowe IPP Australia. More to come .
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:22:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: 17 Jun 97 16:55:27 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' > Personally, I feel betrayed by Kent Jeffrey's abandonment of > what the Roswell Initiative was suppose to stand for, and > what it might have accomplished. Then perhaps of rereading of the Roswell Declaration is in order. It wasn't just about Roswell. > Regarding your question about Marcel, no I have not seen the hypnotic > regression videos, and have no desire to see them. I have talked to Jess > Marcel via e-mail, and he says emphatically that nothing in the hypnotic > sessions changed his mind one bit. He says he is still certain that what > he saw was debris from an extraterrestrial probe. I don't know if he > is mad at Kent Jeffrey, since did not said anything about it in our > exchange. The hypnotic regressions weren't done to change anyone's mind. They were an honest attempt to try to clarify issues. Jesse Marcel Jr. is to be commended for his willingness to do go through them. He wants the truth as much as anyone. He is an honest individual. Last I heard, Jesse Jr. was not having negative feelings toward Kent, he simply doesn't agree with him. Same can be said for Kevin Randle. Now, here are two people, intimately familiar with the Roswell story and they don't appear to hold any grudges against Kent Jeffrey. If anyone had a right to be suspicious or mad at Kent, those two people would certainly have that right. Yet, neither one of them accuse him of being an agent of disinformation, a debunker, even a traitor. No, the only ones who seem to be leading that charge are Ed Komarek and you. Ed K. labels almost anyone with a differing opinion -- a debunker. Are you the same way? Can't you just say that you disagree without having to cast aspersions against someone's character? You don't even know Kent Jeffrey. To the best of my knowledge you have never even spoken to him. Apparently you haven't even read the Roswell Declaration and you aren't familiar with the time, energy, effort and $$ that Kent Jeffrey put into his quest for the truth. Don't put yourself in the same class as Ed K., it is unbecoming on you Bob. Sure, I've given you flak, some of it you even deserved <g>, but I know you and know that you can be a decent and reasonable man. Investigate Kent Jeffrey before you blindly jump on the disinformation train. Just my 2 cents. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Corso's book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:25:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:49:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book Regarding... >Date: 19 Jun 97 09:23:00 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book Bob Shell wrote: >>The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by >>William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell >>Telephone Laboratories. >You are right, of course. But Greg did not read the Corso book >carefully. >Let's criticize Corso on what he really says... I'm not sure where you saw any criticism. It certainly wasn't in the information I mentioned to Gary. >Saying that the ideas behind fiber optics were well known in the past >tells us nothing. You seem to have missed the point. As highlighted, Gary was saying that the inspiration behind a new idea may not be evident in the published data. So far as lasers and fibre optics are concerned, eminent scientists such as Einstein and Bell had pioneered the development of these technologies. Which obviously does tell us something about the history of their origins. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 ZZZZAP! From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 19:04:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:52:03 -0400 Subject: ZZZZAP! If you guys are disposed to help out some school kids with a project to emphasize Nicol Tesla's contributions you can all this link to your page if you wish. You can grab the tesla.gif off my page at www.crossfields.com/~pparri or www.sat.net/~pparri or even pwp.value.net/ufomus The following is an easy paste & makes a nice border. <table border><tr><td><table border=3><tr><td><a href="http://www.concentric.net/~Jwwagner/p6.5ord.html"><image src="tesla.gif" border=0></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><hr> ~Pat~ ==================================================== http://www.crossfields.com Crossfields Inc., Delivers! - If no algorithm can be found, We'll make one up! Custom CGI for Web Pages and Content Address all payments, questions, materials for our use in building your WWW project to: Crossfields, Inc. 458 Plantation Drive Suite 217 Lake Jackson, Texas 77566 (409) 299-1004 Phone/Fax line. ====================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:32:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:29:33 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > From: yogi@iadfw.net [Bill Ralls] > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:59:22 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > Errol and All, > This may be old news, but I thought it interesting. If anyone has > additional information concerning this, I would appreciate hearing > about it. > Regards, > Bill Ralls > UFO World http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/ufo.html > ********************************************************************** > 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > > 'Bodies' reportedly used to test chutes > > SOURCE: Ft.Worth Star Telegram > By Bill Hendrick - Cox News Service > > ATLANTA - Long accused by UFO buffs of covering up visits by weird- > looking beings from outer space, the Pentagon plans to issue a report > soon contending that alien-like bodies have fallen from the skies over > New Mexico: man-made dummies. > > Rubbery, humanoid-shaped dummies with no body hair, ears or noses. > > According to the report, the dummies were part of secret tests on > high-altitude parachuting, plunging to the ground from giant balloons > in the 1940s and 1950s says Philip J. Klass, a scientist and author of > six books debunking UFOs as imaginary. Good Lord, they were a paranoid lot back in those days. Who could possibly give a flying fig that you were conducting tests of high altitude parachuting (please don't come back with the obvious). And as stated below, why were many of these child size. Were they planning to induct children into the USAF and then dropping them from high altitudes. > Pentagon spokeswoman Gloria Cales said Tuesday that the report will > be issued soon, that it contains "some surprises," but that there is > no evidence that UFOs have ever visited Earth. Who the hell is Gloria Cales. Oh, right, she's the one that is calling every reporter of a UFO sighting a liar. I'm not sure what turkey that would be in my country (Canada) but I'm sure we have some similiar stuffed shirt up here spouting the same self serving BS. What the hell, it comes naturally in politics and nowadays, nothing is more political than the forces. > Klass, 77, a longtime board member of the journal Skeptical Inquirer, > said he has seen a copy of the 248-page report, which includes about > 100 photographs. How come he got to see it and we didn't. > He said the Air Force prepared it as a follow-up to a 1994 study in > which it conceded that the government lied in 1947 when it said a > weather balloon had crashed near Roswell, N.M., instead of a flying > saucer as announced by the Army. Yada yada yada. Yawn...more of the same. > On July 8,1947, the Army said a "flying disc" had been captured. But > later, after being examined by high-ranking officers at Carswell Air > Force Base in Fort Worth, the debris was identified as a weather > balloon. > The 1994 Air Force report said that what crashed in 1947 wasn't a > weather balloon, but a top-secret spying device to detect Soviet > nuclear blasts. > The just-completed report was prepared because UFO buffs complained > that the 1994 study did not address persistent claims that tiny > alien bodies were found after the crash, Klass said in an interview. > The new report will say the Air Force dropped human-like dummies to > test high-altitude parachute-recovery techniques, Klass said. Some > dummies were human size, but others were small - similar to > descriptions of alien creatures that have circulated for 50 years. > "The report will suggest that perhaps some of the alleged > recollections of alien spacecraft and ET bodies may stem from those > tests," Klass said. It's amazing isn't it that people can wander around department stores for years admiring the suits and dresses on the window and floor dummies without displaying any arberrant (sp) behavior, however the moment they spot one of these out in the desert or in a secluded glen they come apart and start running around like chickens with their heads cut off yelling, aliens..aliens..I've seen creatures from another planet. Again anyone but those in the upper ranks of the forces, the intelligence communities or selected government leaders (read screwups) are the only rational beings on this planet, looking after the poor misguided souls (read everyone else) who report these things. There,there now, (a little pat on the head) father (or mother) knows best... > Time magazine also reported Monday that the Air Force will reveal > that it used dummies, misidentified by UFO buffs as aliens. Ya gotta hand it to them, the AF knows how to line up all of their ducks in a row. Get some skeptic on the staff of Time to write one of those "tut tut" articles that has that tone which implies, "We've been all over this UFO issue before, but once more for you uninformed idiots out there, we'll go over it again. The brightest minds in our Air Force have determined once again that there is nothing to this UFO business." Don't these reporters realize that that's a little like the Fox saying,"Yeah we've heard about all of those missing chickens so we put together a committee of our brighteset Foxes and they have determined that there is nothing to the story." > UFO buffs have long accused the Air Force and the entire government > of covering up what it knows about UFOs. Like I said..Foxes. > The 1994 report was done at the request of Rep. Steven Schiff, R-N.M. > It was followed in 1995 by a report from the General Accounting Office > that said many dispatches about the Roswell crash had been lost. No kidding? Regards Don Ledger **********************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:49:32 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' [Please keep in mind that, as of Thursday, Ed has un-subscribed for three weeks -ebk] >Date: 19 Jun 97 09:23:07 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >>From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >>Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Don, >Thanks for posting this info about Kent Jeffrey. Maybe people >who have dismissed me for reporting it will listen to you. >Back when he made this absurd statement on your program he >was >still "Mr. Roswell", and he was attacking something that many >UFOlogists had dismissed as well, so he got away with it. >Only >a few of the more astute researchers, such as you, noticed >how >strange his statements were. >In the intervening time I have shown conclusive proof in my >talks >at UFO Conferences that Kent's star witnesses against the AA >film, >the two cameramen MacGovern and Longo, don't know what >they are >talking about. >I'm very concerned at the potential damage Kent Jeffrey and >his >cronies can do to the whole cause of UFO research. >Bob I certainly agree. The only reason I let Jeffrey get away with the debunking of the AA film was his strong support for the petition drive. I just thought at the time he was just being opinionated and so I just overlooked the classic signs of a debunker. If I remember correctly one item still seems to stick in my mind was a statement Jeffrey made that the alien could not be real because it was too human looking. I could see no grounds for such a statement. It was a big surprise for the natives in Americas to realize that humans lived on the other side of the impassable ocean in Europe. How could this be. (For them it was a impossible distance.) The answer was that in the distant past the races were connected. There were common roots. I think the same could be true with some of the human ET reports. Then it makes real sense that perhaps we and many of the ET races could have common origins in distant time and space. Perhaps the human race on earth is a introduced species that wiped out its naturally evolving proto human competitors. Arriving here in crashes, lost colonies, incarceration etc. The best, Ed Komarek (ORTK) Search for other documents from or mentioning: edkomarek | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:50:02 -0400 Subject: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:14:12 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >> According to the report, the dummies were part of secret >>tests on >>high-altitude parachuting, plunging to the ground from giant >>balloons >>in the 1940s and 1950s says Philip J. Klass, a scientist and >>author of >>six books debunking UFOs as imaginary. >Where the hell do these people get the idea that Phil Klass is >a scientist? >J.H. Christ! >From Phil I expect. The man knows his PR. Just about anybody can claim to be a scientist if they so desire. Looks good in the press and the uninformed public are none the wiser. Maybe some one ought to contact Phill on this and it might make for a interesting discussion. Darn I have got to shut down this computer or I never will make it to the mountians. The best, Ed Komarek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 FAA Reply to FOIA Request From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:56:25 -0400 Subject: FAA Reply to FOIA Request From: SKYWATCH Post Only <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> From: bhamilto@pcshs.com From: IUFO Dear Skywatchers, I have asked UFO Lawyer, Peter Gersten, to file a FOIA request on the Phoenix sightings directed to the FAA. Here is the letter he received in reply: Jun 13 1997 Dear Mr. Gersten: Re: Unusual Airborne Phenomena in PHX, 3/13/97 FAA File: 97-06-203 This responds to your freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request dated June 11, 1997. Your request sought copies of any and all records, documents and audio tapes regarding unidentified objects, lights, flares or any other unusual airborne phenomena in the vicinity of Phoenix. A records search was conducted by Phoenix Airport Traffic Control Tower. The facility did not find any documentation on file pertaining to your specific request, and we are unaware of any other facilities likely to possess additional responsive records. You are entitled to know the names of the persons responsible for the above-described determination that the Air Traffic Division has no records responsive to your request. They include myself and George D. Williams, Manager Air Traffic Division for the Federal Aviation Administration's Western-Pacific Regional Office. You may request reconsideration of this determination by writing to the Associate Administrator for Administration, Federal Aviation Administration, 800 Independence Avenue, SW, Washington, DC 20591. Your request must be made in writing within 30 days from the date of receipt of this letter and must include all information and arguments relied upon. Your letter must state that it is an appeal from the above-described denial of a request made under the FOIA. The envelope containing the appeal should be marked "FOIA." Sincerely, William C. Withycombe Regional Administrator Search for other documents from or mentioning: d005734c | skywatch |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 how many fingers? From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:18:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:58:10 -0400 Subject: how many fingers? In my review of Corso's book, I mentioned that he says the aliens have six fingers. Bob Shell wrote to me privately, saying that in one passage, Corso says they have only four. That's when he sneaks a peek into an alien's coffin at an Air Force base, in an episode right out of Leonard Stringfield. Sure enough, Bob's right. And now I can't find the place where I'd swear Corso said the hostile little organic androids (his conception of them) have six fingers. Did I hallucinate it? Has someone else found that in the book? There is one definite reference to the alien autopsy film -- or definite correspondence with it. Corso says the aliens had little hand prints, with which they (possibly) flew the ship. He compares them to the celebrity hand prints in the concrete outside Mann's Chinese Theater in Los Angeles! Two other nods to UFO lore look VERY suspicious to me. On page 116, Corso is talking to his superior about scientists who should be brought in, and names just two: Robert Sarbacher and Wilbert Smith. Just by coincidence, these names are already known, Smith being a Canadian with mystical leanings, who wrote in his private papers that Sarbacher, an American engineer, had briefed him on the truth about UFOs. Sarbacher actually confirmed that he'd done this, and that the American government had studied crash debris. So, just as Corso says, these are pretty obvious names. But....if Corso got Smith directly involved, why on earth didn't Smith say anything in his private papers? And why would Corso -- a hard-nosed American military guy, who thinks the aliens were hostile -- want to be involved with a woo-woo Canadian (no offense meant, Canadian friends on the list!), who conducted telepathic conversations with aliens he thought were great galactic spirits? As for Sarbacher, didn't he say his involvement was minor, and confined to the early days of this alleged work? If he got drawn into the heart of it in the early '60s, as Corso seems to say, he never breathed a word of it. Of course, Corso never actually says these men DID get involved...he just says they were obvious names to put on a list. Yet another instance of the lack of clarity that makes this book so frustrating, whether you're reading it because you believe every word, or because you're poring over it looking for proof that it's fake. The mentions of Smith and Sarbacher, I have to say, strike me as very bad omens. The passage reads exactly as if it had been contrived to hook a phony story into known UFO lore. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Corso's book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:50:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:03:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book Corso's book can be confusing. Bob Shell writes: >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book > Greg did not read the Corso book > carefully. I've now read it twice, and some sections multiple > times. > Nowhere does Corso say that alien technology lead to development of > the transistor. He says that multitudes of oval , cracker-sized > silicon wafers were found in the wreckage. Under magnification it > was seen that the surface of these wafers was covered with > microscopic > circuits. In other words, integrated circuits on a silicon > substrate, > which is very different from the simple transistor. I've had problems simply understanding what this book says. It's also sometimes hard to find passages after I've read them. There's something about the way the prose is organized....it's a swamp, and details sink into it. So about the transistor..... The longest passage about it starts on page 158, at the start of chapter 12, which -- in tune with what Bob says -- is called "The Integrated Circuit Chip." And there's no doubt that integrated circuits are main thing Corso says Bell Labs got from alien technology. On page 159, Corso starts the meaet of the discussion: "I'd heard that General Twining had worked very closely with both Bell Labs and Motorola on communications research during the war....and after the Roswell crash. Whether he had brought them any material from the crash or showed them the tiny silicon chips was a matter of pure speculation. I only know that the entire field of circuit miniaturization took a giant leap in 1947 with the invention of the transistor....The electronics industry had taken a major technological jump in less than ten years, and I had to wonder privately whether any Roswell material had gotten out that I didn't know about prior to my taking over Foreign Technology in 1961." This is much more vague than I'd like it to be. He doesn't even know whether alien technology ever reached Bell Labs. On page 150, he says more: "Von Braun had asked General Twining whether anyone at Bell Labs was going to be contacted about this find. Twining seemed surprised at first, but when von Braun told him about the experiments on solid-state components...Twining became intrigued. What if these chips were components of a very advanced solid-state circuitry von Braun asked him.... "General Twining's only experience had been with the hevily insulated vaccum-tube devices from World War II...He'd never seen metallic printed chips like these before. How did they work? he'd asked von Braun. "The German scientist wasn't sure, although he guessed they worked on the same principle as the transistors that laboratories were trying to develop to the point where they could be manufactured commercially...." Now, it seems, Corso isn't speculating any more. Twining had conversations about how Bell Labs could use the Roswell technology....and would use it in something closely related, at the very least, to the transistors they were already trying to develop. Moving on, page 161: "The Germans had been desperately trying to develop circuitry of this sort during the war.... "But the research into solid-state components that the Germans had been doing and the early work at Bell Labs was nothing compared to the marvel that Twining had shown von Braun....In effect, the reverse-eingineering of solid-state integrated circuitry began in the weeks and months after the crash even though William Shockley at Bell Labs was already working on a version of his transistor as early as 1946. "In the summer of 1947, the scientists at Alamogordo were only aware of the solid-state circuit research under way at Bell Labs and Motorola. So they pointed Nathan Twining to research scientists at both companies and agreed to help him conduct the very early briefings into the nature of the Roswell find. The army, very covertly, turned some of the components over to research engineers for an inspection, and by the early 1950's the transistor had been invented and transistorized circuits were now turning up in consumer products as well as in military electronics systems." Isn't he strongly implying -- at the very least -- that the alien technology helped develop the transistor, even if mere unaided humans had been going down the path on their own? A little later, he says (page 162): "The radio vacuum tube probably reached its greatest utility from the 1930s through the 1950s, until the technology we discovered at Roswell made it obsolete." It was the transistor that made the vacuum tube obsolete. (Unless you talk to audio purists, but that's another story!) Here Corso appears to be saying outright that the alien technology led to the transistor. Finally, try this from pages 167 and 168: "More than one historian of the microcomputer age has written that no one before 1947 foresaw the invention of the transistor or had even dreamed about an entirely new technology that relied upon semiconductors....The entire development arc of the radio tube, from Edison's first experiments....to the vacuum tubes taht formed the switching mechanisms of ENIAC, lasted about fifty years. The development of the silicon transistor seemed to come upon us in a matter of months. And, had I not seen the silicon wafers from the Roswell crash with my own eyes....talked about them with Hermann Oberth, Wernher von Braun, or Hans Kohler, and heard the reports from these now dead scientists of the meetings between Nathan Twining, Vannevar Bush, and researchers at Bell Labs, I would have thought the invention of the transistor was a miracle. I know now how it came about." Finally! He more or less says it plainly. But you know..........the point of all this isn't who's right, Bob or me, but how confusingly Corso's book is written. Despite all the w ealth of alleged detail he seems to be conveying, some things remain damnably unclear. Note that he makes no direct statement about the transistor. You have to prod it out from the implications of his words, and it's hardly a surprise that two readers would come to different conclusions. Nor does he ever quite say how he moved from speculation to certainty, on this subect! Apparently he speculated when he first saw the recovered debris, and then talked to scientists who filled in the story for him....but he never quite says that. The narrative in this book is, simply, a mess. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Re: Corso's book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:36:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:01:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Corso's book One last sortie into the wacky, wonderful world of Philp Corso: > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Corso's book > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Greg, > The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by > William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell > Telephone Laboratories. > Briefly setting this in some perspective: > John V. Atanasoff, a professor at Iowa State College, and Clifford > Berry, a graduate student, conceived an all-electronic computer > that applied Boolean algebra to computer circuitry. In 1939, they > designed a prototype and in 1973, a judge declared it to be the first > automatic digital computer. > The code-breaking Colossus computer was designed and built in 1941 > at the University of Manchester, England and Colossus Mark II followed > in 1944. > The first information-processing digital computer actually built was > the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator, or Mark I computer. > Completed in 1944, this electromechanical device was designed by > American Howard H. Aiken, a Harvard engineer working with IBM. > Around half the length of a football field and containing some 500 > miles of wiring, its purpose was to create ballistic charts for the > U.S. Navy. > February of 1946 saw an unveiling of the Electronic Numerical > Integrator and Computer (ENIAC), the result of a joint project between > the U.S. government and the University of Pennsylvania. Consisting > of 17,468 vacuum tubes, some 70,000 resistors and 5 million soldered > joints, it weighed approximately 30 tons and required 1000 square > feet of floor space. Entirely electronic, it consumed up to 160 > kilowatts of power, sufficient to dim the lights in part of Philadelphia. > Vacuum tubes were required for electromechanical circuit switching > and the regulated conduction of electrical current - basically > switching and amplification - but they consumed too much power, gave > off too much heat, took up too much space, cost too much to produce, and > they burned out. > Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen's research addressed these problems and > in searching for a suitable alternative they decided to try > semiconductors, materials that were adequate, although not > exceptional, conductors of electricity. > Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar > diodes, they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that small > changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a > suitable medium would produce active electronic effects and when they passed > current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated the > principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid > semiconducting material. [the rest snipped] James, now I've read this twice. Once from you, and once from Corso, who tells the same story in almost as much detail. God forbid that anyone thinks I'm staking claims for Corso's credibility. I'm not. But (as Bob Shell said elsewhere) let's criticize him for what he really says. As you know, if you read my lengthy screed about the aliens and the transistor, Corso states quite clearly that Shockley (later to become a racist pig, but that's something else again) was working on the transistor before the Roswell crash. Nor does Corso anywhere deny that mere humans could all by themselves theorize these technological breakthroughs, or start to implement them without help from folks with just four fingers on their hands.. All Corso seems to be saying is that the alien debris helped move the engineering faster. As I've noted, his writing is monstrously unclear, so you can sometimes read other implications into it. When he says that the transistor was developed with uncanny speed, you COULD conclude that the alien debris supplied conceptual, as well as engineering, help. I don't think Corso means that. (A pause. while I savor this peculiar feeling....as if I'm looking for archeological proof that Peter Pan was real!) But the main point is something else. Even if Corso's book is mostly lies, he does NOT say that the laser, transistor, et al (and no, he doesn't give aliens credit for TV game shows or the Wonderbra) sprung from nowhere out of alien technology. He tells a very diff'serent tale, of ongoing research into which pieces of alien debris were introduced, thus hastening a process that already was underway. Everything you cite about the transistor's history (and, in passages I didn't quote, about the laser's) doesn't contradict Corso one bit. DISCLAIMER: It's possible for me to say these things without endorsing Corso's claims! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jun 97 21:03:00 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:04:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:08:40 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO > conversation >Hi Bob, >Just a riminder.... I still didn't see any evidence (and I'm waiting for 6 >months now) of this conversation other than what is written in text on the >web. Until John Locker comes up with some audio material, I'm regarding >this as a hoax. Karel, I SAW the video in San Marino, and I HEARD the astronaut say that. Now we need to know if the video is legit. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jun 97 21:03:03 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:05:12 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:44:21 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >While I can respect Jeffrey's decision to reverse himself with regard to >the Roswell crash, I felt that his reaction to the Alien Autopsy "film" was >far too intense. There were (are are) many who believe the "film" is a >fraud, but Jeffrey took a proactive role in trying to prove that it HAD to >be a fake. It would appear that he carried a number of pre-conceived >notions around that weren't disclosed in public. I will admit that the >timing of this reversal seems somewhat suspicious, but since his article on >Roswell is (IMHO) written no better than his "Alien Autopsy" piece, I >suspect it will fade to obscurity soon enough. Steve, Another voice of reason! Can it be that I'm not really just a voice crying alone in the wilderness? Being on the side of investigating the film instead of just dismissing it has been a pretty lonely place to be. I hope you are right about KJ fading into obscurity. Bob P.S.: I hear that Corso is going to be on Nightline tomorrow night. This I can't miss!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 ABC News-Peter Jennings From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 21:37:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:07:21 -0400 Subject: ABC News-Peter Jennings Greetings List! On June 18th, 1997, (Wednesday), in the last part of ABC News 6:30 PM edition, there was a small bit about Roswell. There was also a small segment about Phoenix. A video was shown of some large lights over the city. Several witnesses were interviewed claiming they saw a large triangular shaped craft fly over their house. Other researchers were interviews as well, albiet briefly to fit into the sound bite/byte :-) . The segment ended with Peter Jennings (who I respect) smirking. I was just curious how the American's on the List view their news media when such a vitally important subject is treated with such (seeming) short shrift by the major networks. Surely there must be some hope? Regards, Paul.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 The 'Arizona' Media Blitz From: xalium@netwrx.net Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:53:45 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:09:13 -0400 Subject: The 'Arizona' Media Blitz You can't turn on the tv or radio anymore without hearing about the March 13 Arizona sightings. The media coverage is heavier than coverage after the sightings originally happened. Why? Months after the sighting, it appears to me that someone has pushed the media button to cover a this story. I am requesting information from people who recorded the coverage. I want to know when did the first major coverage start. Then we can tell all the bandwagoneers who just jumped on the story. But how did it start? How does a story from months ago become a media blitz? There was coverage on every local news channel in Phoenix about a UFO Press conference at 5:00 p.m. held by Governor Fife Symington. He states he was going to launch an official state investigation into the March 13 sightings, with the local Police department. He claimed to have new secret evidence. Then he brought out a "Grey Alien", which was a human with a rubber Grey mask. He turned the entire event into a joke. It pissed off all the news reports who thought they had a good scoop, taxpayers, and UFO witnesses. Reports are conflicting from different news channels. It looks like there maybe an investigation, but its hard to tell because the local news reports different stuff on every channel. They all never report the same story. They should have a better report tonight on the 10 p.m. news. It will be on every newschannel (5 of them) plus probably the front page of the news tommorow. People here are confused and want to know if there will be an investigation or not? Symington can feel the heat! Tom King AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L E-Mail xalium@netwrx.net OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Paul Davids on Timothy Leary and... Roswell From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:08:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:08:26 -0400 Subject: Paul Davids on Timothy Leary and... Roswell The Toronto Star - Friday, June 20, 1997 Movies Section page C5 Timothy Leary's Dead ... at least for the time being By Peter Howell Toronto Star Movie Critic Space aliens, cloned sheep and severed heads: they all come together when talking about late acid guru Timothy Leary. The man doing the connecting is Paul Davids, the California director of Timothy Leary's Dead, a film documentary on the renegade ex-Harvard professor opening tonight at the Bloor Cinema. He's on the line from his California home, with more secrets than Fox Mulder and more shock revelations than a National Enquirer headline writer: Space aliens really did crash at Roswell, N.M.: July 4 marks the 50th anniversary of the alleged crash landing of little gray space people in the New Mexico desert, and the subsequent cover-up by the U.S. government. Two weeks from now, the word 'alleged' won't apply anymore, says Davids, who will be in Roswell unveiling physical evidence turned up as a result of Roswell, the 1994 made-for-TV movie he co-wrote and executive produced. "On July 4, it's very likely that the tide of the argument may be turned by certain scientific announcements", Davids says. Dolly, meet Timothy: Timothy Leary knew before his death last year that science was on the verge of cloning the first mammal, Davids says. He didn't live long enough to hear about Dolly, the Scottish clone sheep unveiled this year, but he made secret plans to become the first cloned human. He's dead, but where's his head?: Timothy Leary's Dead purports to show the severing of the acid king's head from his body, soon after his death from prostate cancer. But is it really Leary's head on screen, or just a mask? Davids considers this his biggest mystery. It's almost too much for one straight mind to absorb. But these bulletins from out there, plus the fact Davids wrote six Star Wars novels, helped convince Leary the first-time film director was the free-thinker needed to make his film bio. It also helped that Davids, as a Princeton University psychology student in the '60s, had worked with Canadian psychologist Dr. Humphrey Osmond, the man credited with coining the term 'psychedelic' and of sending author Aldous Huxley on his first mescaline trip. "He trusted me", Davids says of Leary. Small wonder. Davids is clearly a Leary devotee, and so are most of the people he interviewed for his film. He doesn't deny that his 80-minute documentary is intended to restore some of Leary's lost mystique, as the ultimate counter-culture rebel of the 1960s. He barely takes a breath while explaining his film's agenda: "It's a favorable portrait of a wonderful man who was demonized by the media, who was labelled as 'the most dangerous man alive', who was jailed for what today would be a very small infraction (marijuana possession), sentenced to 30 years for this and put in a cell next to Charles Manson, primarily because his writings were viewed as a threat. He was shut up." Most of Leary's enemies of the '60s and '70s, including U.S. president Richard Nixon and FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, are dead and gone. And most documentaries of the 1960s tend to paint Leary as a technicoloriconoclast, best remembered for acid mantra, "Turn on, tune in, drop out." In his declining years, Leary was known to younger people as a friendly codger who liked surfing the Internet. It would seem hard to organize a lynch mob of the senior citizens who still consider Leary a dangerous influence, but Davids, ever the conspiracy theorist - he won't even reveal his own age - is convinced the anti-Leary forces are out there, waiting. Waiting to interrupt what Leary's final "experiment", his interesting way of describing death. It's for this reason the film fudges the shock-horror-gasp ending, which shows Leary's head being sawed off by a team of surgeons, shortly after his death. Earlier in the film, Leary talks about how he's made arrangements to have his head frozen for posterity, to be thawed at some future date and attached to the body of a willing man or woman - presumably one already headless. But the decapitation scene is immediately followed by another showing the still-alive Leary being fitted for a lifelike mask of his head, raising the suspicion that it's all a hoax. Or is it? He does confirm that Leary arranged to have seven ounces of his ashes sent on a private rocket ship ride to space, along with the ashes of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry. Leary also squirrelled away 50 vials of his blood, sent to secret locations around the world, waiting for the day when some Jurassic Park dream comes true, and the acid guru once again walks the Earth. "No one knows if, in fact, experiments might be already under way to clone Timothy Leary as the first human clone," Davids says conspiratorially. "You have to understand. His death is shrouded in mystery. The meaning of the ending of the film is in essence a warning to those who demonized him." A warning? Turn on, tune in . . . or we'll lop it off?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Fugo on CNN International From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:33:20 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:47:14 -0400 Subject: Fugo on CNN International Hi list, CNN International just announced the release of the new and improved Roswell explanation by the USAF at the end of this month. Col. Weaver, who co-authored the 1994 Mogul explanation, was interviewed briefly, followed by Elaine Douglass of MUFON. Weaver said the report will show photos of the dummies that were mistaken for aliens (ha ha) and that the dummies were used to test fly parachutes by dropping them from high altitudes. ??? (Can anybody make sense of this, I mean test fly parachutes by dropping dummies?) Frankly I think Weaver looks a bit too dumb to be a disinformation specialist. Elaine Douglass said it is all nonsense and the USAF is out of the loop. Btw. what position does Elaine have within MUFON? ***** I just saw a second, extended segment. CNN International says the US Air Force got the year wrong, because the tests were performed years later. Only other explanation: Populair Mechanics says the Japanese were doing it (apparently 2 years after WW II ended). CNN I also showed the Phoenix, Arizona Flying Triangle/wing. Both Weaver and Douglass say the UFO phenomenon won't go away. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Re: Phoenix Triangle: Caution From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:50:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Phoenix Triangle: Caution From: Joe Shea <joeshea@netcom.com> Doesn't anybody wonder why CNN, with its vast team of journalists and unlimited investigative resources -- or ABC or NBC, as well -- had to phrase the Phoenix Lights story as "What is this?" Instead of, "This is what it was"? I saw CNN killed the large frame d/l vido they had of it, which was pretty revealing. This was no UFO. It wasn't flying. Only the camera moved. Pick a spot between the third and fourth lights from the left and you see that while the object seems to have a tilted curvilinear shape and give the effect of movement, it never does move. Chances are it was a very well-done kite array using lights in series, and that once they went out the whole array was pulled to the ground. That won't show up on radar. Either CNN is promoting magazinese sales for Time Warner (which bought them recently), whose flagship mag (TIME) has a monster on its cover, or one of their upcoming Warner Bros. movies. Why the hell did they wait three months to report the story? Why didn't AP report it the same day? We're being had, big time. If you follow the video, the things never move, but the lights go and off in a pattern like Christmas tree lights. And, given all the enormous debate that has gone before, why does the AF now say it was dropping dummies out of the sky? Why did it wait, and why didn't other UFO researchers turn up those facts under FOIA requests? I hate to tell you what I think. And I won't. :) Best, Joe Shea Editor-in-Chief The American Reporter joeshea@netcom.com http://www.newshare.com:9999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Re: FAA Reply to FOIA Request From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:50:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: FAA Reply to FOIA Request From: Joe Shea <joeshea@netcom.com> Is there anyone out there who can make head or tail of the Morse Code pattern of the lights on the Phoenix thing? You can read it frame by frame at http://www.cnn.com by downloading the video. It repeats twice. Note that the number of lights goes from 6 to five by the end. Best, Joe Shea Editor-in-Chief The American Reporter joeshea@netcom.com http://www.newshare.com:9999
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 CNN On 'Dummy' Report From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:48:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:52:28 -0400 Subject: CNN On 'Dummy' Report >From CNN's Website: Report on Roswell 'UFO crash' due soon=20 In this report:=20 Air Force says wreckage was from tests=20 Altered stories fueled the fire=20 Were dummies mistaken for aliens? =20 June 18, 1997 Web posted at: 11:01 p.m. EDT (0301 GMT)=20 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Air Force says it will release a report within a week on a 1947 crash near Roswell, New Mexico, that has gained cult status as a suspected UFO incident.=20 "There is not going to be anything new, I think, in this report," says Air Force spokeswoman Gloria Cales. "It's going to substantiate what we've said all along."=20 After initially announcing it had recovered the remains of a flying saucer in 1947, the Air Force corrected itself the next day and claimed the wreckage was a weather balloon.=20 The sudden reversal, the exotic nature of the subject and the lingering suspicion that the government knows more than it is saying have given rise to a case that has assumed legendary proportions.=20 A number of books have been written about the incident, and it is considered by UFO buffs to be the biggest cover-up in U.S. history. It was also mentioned in the movie "Independence Day," which featured a super-secret government lab where scientists had studied alien cadavers for decades.=20 This year marks the 50th anniversary of the "crash," and it has been receiving considerable attention in the media and elsewhere. The city of Roswell, among others, aims to cash in on it. Wreckage found on sheep ranch=20 "Something happened here and it's probably the most credible UFO event in the world," says Mayor Tom Jennings. "We've taken that and developed it into a whole new industry -- tourism."=20 The town's historic Plains movie theater is now a UFO museum -- one of two in town -- and has a big flying saucer on the roof.=20 Roswell sits on the plains east of the Sierra Blanca mountain range in southeastern New Mexico. It is in the center of the state's gas and oil industry, but it expects its population of 48,000 to double as UFO believers, researchers and the curious flock to town from July 1 through 6 for a golden anniversary of the event.=20 Time magazine's June 23 cover story about the incident says the wreckage in question was found along a 200-yard swath of land on a sheep ranch belonging to J.B. Foster, 85 miles northwest of Roswell.=20 It was spotted by rancher W.W. ("Mac") Brazel and consisted of rubber strips, tin foil, wood sticks, adhesive tape, other tape with a floral design and a tough, resilient kind of paper.=20 Brazel thought so little of the discovery that he neglected to mention it for days. But the story has taken on a life of its own since.=20 Altered stories fueled the fire=20 Further confusing the issue has been the Air Force's conduct, first in claiming it had the wreckage of a UFO and then denying it.=20 It contradicted itself again in 1994, saying that the wreckage was in fact part of a device used to detect Soviet nuclear tests.=20 A source told Time that the wreckage came from a secret operation called Project Mogul, which launched trains of balloons carrying acoustical equipment into the atmosphere to monitor Soviet tests.=20 The new report, which the Air Force would not elaborate on, is also expected to address the issue of alien "bodies" which witnesses reportedly saw near the wreckage.=20 Among the reports was one from a Roswell mortician who claims he received an inquiry in 1947 from a nearby air base about child-sized coffins.=20 But according to Time those reports can be explained by another Air Force project conducted in the area in 1947.=20 Were dummies mistaken for aliens? It involved dropping dummies from high-altitude balloons to study the results of the impact from high-altitude parachute jumps.=20 Says Time, "Witnesses' descriptions of the 'aliens,' the Air Force notes, closely match the characteristics of the dummies: 3 1/2 ft. to 4 ft. tall, bluish skin coloration and no ears, hair, eyebrows or eyelashes."=20 The magazine quotes an Air Force spokesman as saying, "What quite likely happened is that people who saw these dummies mistook them for aliens."=20 =20 =B0Message Board: Roswell 'UFO crash' report=20 =B0CNN In-Depth - Space=20 Related stories: =B0Poll: U.S. hiding knowledge of aliens - June 15, 1997=20 =B0Don't believe in aliens? Visit San Francisco's UFO 'Museum' - April 19, 1997=20 =B0Associate of group member says deaths linked to UFO, Hale-Bopp - March 27, 1997=20 =20 Sound off on our message boards Tell us what you think! You said it... =20 =20 =20 =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Ed Komarek & Windows 95 From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:50:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:56:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Komarek & Windows 95 At 10:23 PM 06/19/97 -0400, The Head CoverUp Guy wrote: >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:11:10 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Ed Komarek & Windows 95 >I've been without a computer for five days now and if you don't think >undermining Western civilization on one hand, and ufology on the other, >isn't hard work in its own right, just try doing it without a hard drive >sometime--courtesy of an attempt to uninstall Windows 95 after it started >deleting little unimportant pieces of my system on its own, small things >like the CD-ROM drive, printer and scanner. Call me paranoid if you >must--but Plug and Play, ha! ... >In the meantime, support your local Apple dealer and buy a Macintosh. And >for God's sakes, buy and read this book. Corso deserves every penny--for >chutzpa, if nothing else. At least we know who to call when the >Congressional UFO jeerings, I mean, hearings, finally kick in -- Philip J. >Corso. He'll have 'em rolling in the aisles and then we can pick *their* >pockets. Since you seem to have been so busy aligning yourself with the Supreme Forces Of Coverup Evil (TM) you probably didn't realize that Win95 has something called "the Registry" which gets corrupted at times. However this malicious buggery of Gates can be fixed and even restored. You did make backups, right? In the future avail yourself of something called "ERU" which can be found at numerous Software sites by doing a search. For the brave of heart, the Registry can be pruned, cleaned and fixed by a program called "RegClean", also available where ERU is located. Try http://www.download.com or the nearest http://www.tucows.com . If you like living dangerously in the devil's own backyard, I'm sure that http://www.microsoft.com also has both these sanity preservers. Step gingerly around the scads of "cookies" that Gatesville likes to proffer. As for a Mac (yes, I use both platforms extensively) you haven't lived until you chased down an extension conflict, suffered a mysterious and quite arcane "type 11" error, encountered unexplainable system freezes or the dreaded "application has unexpectedly quit" message sends shivers down your spine, or you discover the system folder on your startup screen with a big fat flashing question mark across it. Not to mention SCSI conflicts, termination issues or the hundred and one other quirks particular to a Macinstosh. Ain't computers wunnerful? Just wait til System 8.0 comes out on the Mac. It will make it even more Gates-like. (spooky music begins here). Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 ET Projected Over Phoenix... From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:59:03 -0400 Subject: ET Projected Over Phoenix... From: Mike Spitzer <mrufomn@goodnet.com> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List Here is an exerpt from an article published in DEFENSE WEEK in the March 31, 1997 issue, FOLLOWED BY SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING: ------------- PENTAGON'S NEW INFORMATION WAR + PSYOPS' HOLOGRAPHIC TECHNOLOGY "Air Force Organizes For Offensive Info War". According to the article, the US Air Force has created the position of deputy director for information operations. An "Offensive Information Warfare" division will be created under the new deputy director. The division will have the organizational code AF/XOIOW and will be headed by Lt. Col. Jimmy Miyamoto. Offensive information warfare, which implies attacks on both military and civilian targets, is among the least discussed aspect of the Air Force's moves to organize, train and equip the service for information dominance, the article admits. The new Information Operations office will coordinate with the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office and the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. New research efforts are under way to support this new program, including: Lethal HPM munitions. The USAF Office of Scientific Research is working on developing a small affordable laser and high-powered microwave for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs - such as the ones possibly being tested at Groom Lake Complexes (AREA 51) in Nevada, General Aerydynamics facility next to El Mirage Dry lake, north of McDonnell-Douglas radar cross-section site near Llano, California, etc. etc.) to perform a wide variety of missions, including energy communications and computer systems. Software viruses to be placed or injected into enemy weapons and information links. These viruses would remain dormant until activated by satellite, aircraft radar, or jamming equipment, etc. When activated, the virus would render the equipment useless, or better yet, "there could be a very subtle change for a finite period of time". Holographic projection. The article describes a quasi-information warfare/psychological operations program that was first discussed in the Air Force after Desert Storm. Holographic projection involvesprojection of a three-dimensional holographic image in project decoys, or even an "angry god" (religious imagery) above the battlefield. The Pentagon had listed the holographic projections openly as part of its "non-lethal" weapons program. But since 1994, the program has disappeared from view, evidently now a "BLACK" effort, says DEFENSE WEEK. In conclusion, the DEFENSE WEEK article states that the Army's JFK Special Warfare Center and School in late 1991 disclosed that it was looking to develop a PSYOPS Hologram System with a capability to "project persuasive messages and three-dimensional pictures of cloud, smoke, rain droplets, buildings....(*or for that matter, even "flying saucers" and religious "figures")....The use of holograms as a persuasive message will have worldwide application". ----------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:43:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: ET Projected Over Phoenix Followed by Martial Law? (Defense Week Magazi ne) From: Mike Spitzer <mrufomn@goodnet.com> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List Here is an exerpt from an article published in DEFENSE WEEK in the March 31, 1997 issue, FOLLOWED BY SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING: ------------- PENTAGON'S NEW INFORMATION WAR + PSYOPS' HOLOGRAPHIC TECHNOLOGY "Air Force Organizes For Offensive Info War". According to the article, the US Air Force has created the position of deputy director for information operations. An "Offensive Information Warfare" division will be created under the new deputy director. The division will have the organizational code AF/XOIOW and will be headed by Lt. Col. Jimmy Miyamoto. Offensive information warfare, which implies attacks on both military and civilian targets, is among the least discussed aspect of the Air Force's moves to organize, train and equip the service for information dominance, the article admits. The new Information Operations office will coordinate with the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office and the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. New research efforts are under way to support this new program, including: Lethal HPM munitions. The USAF Office of Scientific Research is working on developing a small affordable laser and high-powered microwave for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs - such as the ones possibly being tested at Groom Lake Complexes (AREA 51) in Nevada, General Aerydynamics facility next to El Mirage Dry lake, north of McDonnell-Douglas radar cross-section site near Llano, California, etc. etc.) to perform a wide variety of missions, including energy communications and computer systems. Software viruses to be placed or injected into enemy weapons and information links. These viruses would remain dormant until activated by satellite, aircraft radar, or jamming equipment, etc. When activated, the virus would render the equipment useless, or better yet, "there could be a very subtle change for a finite period of time". Holographic projection. The article describes a quasi-information warfare/psychological operations program that was first discussed in the Air Force after Desert Storm. Holographic projection involvesprojection of a three-dimensional holographic image in project decoys, or even an "angry god" (religious imagery) above the battlefield. The Pentagon had listed the holographic projections openly as part of its "non-lethal" weapons program. But since 1994, the program has disappeared from view, evidently now a "BLACK" effort, says DEFENSE WEEK. In conclusion, the DEFENSE WEEK article states that the Army's JFK Special Warfare Center and School in late 1991 disclosed that it was looking to develop a PSYOPS Hologram System with a capability to "project persuasive messages and three-dimensional pictures of cloud, smoke, rain droplets, buildings....(*or for that matter, even "flying saucers" and religious "figures")....The use of holograms as a persuasive message will have worldwide application". -----------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 CNN On Phoenix Sightings (video&audio) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:36:21 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:00:42 -0400 Subject: CNN On Phoenix Sightings (video&audio) Found this on CNN's website http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/index.html Inside the brackets you'll find information on the video and audio links. What were those lights in the Phoenix sky? Reearchers still sorting out hundreds of witness accounts June 19, 1997 Web posted at: 11:58 a.m. EDT (1558 GMT)=20 PHOENIX (CNN) -- When it appeared in the Arizona sky on the night of March 13, it was witnessed by hundreds of people. Neither researchers nor witnesses have yet figured out what Arizonans saw in the event now dubbed "the Phoenix Lights." But that hasn't stopped them from trying to puzzle it out.=20 Tim Ley and his family are among the hundreds of witnesses who have come forward to talk about the Phoenix Lights. They first saw the lights while looking north from their Phoenix home.=20 (Amateur video of lights in the sky 1.3M/24 sec.=20 small frame QuickTime movie)=20 Now, their recollections of what they saw have been transformed into computer images, using a combination of digital photos of the landscape taken by Ley and computer drawings of the objects his family saw in the sky.=20 "When it finally got here and we realized this thing was coming right over us, we really started getting antsy," Ley said. Then, said he and his son Hal, it went directly overhead in complete silence.=20 (53K/5 sec. AIFF or WAV sound)=20 Tim Ley said that when the right side of what appeared to be a giant V-shaped craft passed directly over him, the left side was a couple of blocks away.=20 (See the evidence, and the reconstruction of the incident, in the VXtreme of this KSAZ story.) (VXtreme Streaming Video) His wife, Bobbi, who also saw the aerial light show, said the size of the craft they saw was overwhelming. But, she said, "It didn't seem threatening. ... When it was right overhead and we couldn't hear a sound, it was like you're just awestruck."=20 Jim Dilettoso of Village Labs, who has been researching UFOs for 20 years, is in the process of reconstructing the incident with a virtual reality model.=20 The Leys are among the hundreds of witnesses he interviewed about the Phoenix Lights. He said he considers the family to be "very reliable," and their data "very important," because by their account they were so close to the craft.=20 While nobody knows for sure what the Leys and hundreds of others saw, Tim Ley is sure his family will never forget that night. He said it has changed his outlook on the UFO movement, turning him from a "polite skeptic" to someone quite open to the experiences of UFO believers.=20 (133K/12 sec. AIFF or WAV sound)=20 "We just re-experience it every time we tell it," said his wife. "It's like it was just yesterday. We've never seen anything like it."=20 Reporter John Hook of CNN affiliate KSAZ in Phoenix contributed to this report.=20 =BF=20 =20 =B0Message Board: Roswell 'UFO crash' report=20 =B0CNN In-Depth - Space=20 Related stories: =B0Report on Roswell 'UFO crash' due soon - June 18, 1997=20 =B0Interview with Elaine Douglas, UFO believer - June 15, 1997=20 =B0Poll: U.S. hiding knowledge of aliens - June 15, 1997=20 =B0Don't believe in aliens? Visit San Francisco's UFO 'Museum' - April 19, 1997=20 =B0CNN - Event: Ozarks UFO Conference - Apr. 11, 1997=20 =B0Associate of group member says deaths linked to UFO, Hale-Bopp - March 27, 1997=20 Related sites: =B0SETI Institute - Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence=20 =B0What is the U.S. government doing to investigate UFOs? - from NASA's questions and answers page=20 =B0Global UFO Network=20 =B0ParaScope: Something Strange Is Happening (See UFO section)=20 =B0Air Force Link - Official web site of the United States Air Force=20 =B0(Feature) The Roswell Report: Sightings a 'hoax'=20 =B0Unidentified Flying Objects and Air Force Project Blue Book=20 =B0The International UFO Museum & Research Center - information regarding the Roswell Incident of 1947, and related information concerning UFO and Extraterrestrial phenomena=20 =B0Encounter '97: The 50th Anniversary of the Roswell Encounter=20 =B0Alien, UFO's, Roswell - links, pictures and information about Roswell, New Mexico=20 =B0Roswell Homepage - movement to get government to open its files on Roswell=20 =B0The Roswell Incident- links and archives about Roswell and it's famed crash=20 =BF=BF Search for related CNN stories: =20 =20 =BF =BF[Help] Tip: You can restrict your search to the title of a document. =20 =20 Example: title:New Year's Resolutions =20 =20 Sound off on our message boards Tell us what you think! You said it... =20 =20 =20 =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent's worldview.... From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:15:13 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:07:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent's worldview.... At 01:45 19-6-97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:37:27 -0500 >From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Kent's worldview.... >What a load of assumptions. The UFO phenomenon is "real", if you count >nothing but it's effect on human culture for at least a few thousand >years as having some basis in "reality". When we examine the phenomena >that encompass the enigma we call UFO, and by that I mean *all* of it, >there is no reason to think that the ETH hypothesis as stated above has >anything to do with these anamolous whichamaggigers flitting around our >sky, leaving their imprints on our minds, myths, religions, and >cultures. Yes readers, you've heard it here first. UFOs are masters of our reality, responsible for the disappearance of Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, and Bigfoot. Their occasional radar manifestations don't mean that sometimes they prefer not to be seen -- it means they want to toy with our minds. All the contactees, including Adamski, are relaying truthful accounts, and if they are later proven wrong, it was alien disinformation and not a human lie. The Beamships with Nordics hearken from the Pleiades to share their messages of warmth and love, right where the Venusians left off. The interdimensional Grays made the pyramids out of stones because of disinformation -- if they used advanced materials and architectural technique, their presence would have been far too clear. Clearly, this is also more alien disinformation. Elves, vampires, werewolves, tooth fairies, Santa Claus -- it's all because of UFOs. >That's nice to hear, but reality, as any good Fortean knows, is rarely >so accomadating. Darn it to heck, reality tends to get a lot weirder >than that qucker than an elf can pilot his UFO down to the local farm >and cook up some hotcakes. And the evidence that a great deal of Fortean phenomena is induced by UFOs and not socially by people's own psyche is? You can't just lump any phenomena together (i.e., Fatima) and assert common cause. That's absurd. >UFOs have produced most world religions and continue to do so yet >today. The intelligence behind the UFO (the trickster archetype if you >prefer) operates as a control mechanism on humanity manipulating our >myths. These intruders operate a psychological program of mass mind >manipulation that makes the CIA green with envy even today. John, do you ever get outside your house? You know, interact with people? Social discourse? Obviously you haven't, so let me clue you in on some things: The vast majority of people have never seen a UFO, never seen a UFO occupant, and don't think about UFOs. Seen in this light, the idea that UFOs are used for "psychological mass mind man- ipulation" is not only absurd, but reeks of severe paranoia. >Our understanding of time and space is completely flawed, limited, and >inadequate if, and that is only *if* UFOs are 'real.' Heck, they >challenge our very definition of the word 'real' itself. Your posts challenge the very definition of the word "credulity". >You cannot take a phenomenon which is patently bizarre, surreal, and >challenges all of our concepts of space, time, biology, and even sense >of self as this one, and bind it into a worldview which it inherently >contradicts! Many, Valleeans asside, are certainly not convinced of this. You keep saying they don't "act" like our notions of aliens from other planets, but you have no basis for comparison and you have no idea what they *should* act like. Even worse, you see no logical problems here! You also believe these stories despite the fact that people often lie and cook up hoaxes. That's why I need serious corroboration such as multiple credible witnesses (not one farmer) and/or electronic instrumentation. These stories you believe are so disparate that it's not even worth trying to consolidate them into one grand theory. >Crashed ET spaceships they are not. And this from the guy who accusses Kent of making "loads of assumptions" yet still can't tell us where 'they' are really from, covering his rear with "their origin could well exist beyond what our senses can ever perceive or understand." How elucidating... >Kent attempts to divorce the phenomenon from the way it presents itself >to us, UFOs have been catalogued long ago. NICAP developed 10 rather narrow classifications, and I can assure you they look like anything but the demons, Jehovah, and elves you so wish for. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Arizona Gov. Says UFO Probe a Joke From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:58:19 -0400 Subject: Arizona Gov. Says UFO Probe a Joke --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Arizona Gov. Says UFO Probe a Joke Date: 97-06-19 21:48:05 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By PAUL DAVENPORT PHOENIX (AP) - An investigation into a UFO sighting over Phoenix? Surely Gov. Fife Symington couldn't be serious. An aide said yes, the governor, a Star Trek buff, was sincere when he ordered a state investigation Thursday into a strange, boomerang-shaped light formation reported over Phoenix on March 13. But several hours later, Symington said it was all a joke. ``This just goes to show you guys are entirely too serious,'' Symington said while his aides laughed heartily. The governor called reporters to his office for a second news conference to announce ``important leads'' in the case. With Department of Public Safety officers beside him, Symington said there had been a break in the case and that the source of the lights had been found. Then chief of staff Jay Heiler entered the room in a glittery, pink-and-silver space alien costume. Symington, a Republican, had announced the probe during a break in his fraud trial. His announcement followed reports in the national media over the past few days that included footage of the lights. ``Obviously it wasn't an America West airliner or something like that,'' Symington said in the earlier news conference. ``The video that I saw a quick glimpse of was intriguing, so I'm going to order a full, you know, investigation.'' On March 13, residents of the Phoenix area deluged police, the governor's office and other authorities with calls about the bright lights. The Federal Aviation Administration reported nothing unusual that night. But Symington said it was important to give people an answer, especially because nearly 50 years ago, some say an alien spacecraft crashed in Roswell, N.M. ``(This is) different from Roswell. We'll get to the bottom of it and clear it up here so that everybody will know exactly what happened over Arizona.'' AP-NY-06-19-97 2141EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 BWW Media Alert 970620 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:18:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:59:53 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970620 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) June 20, 1997 Hey, this past couple of weeks I've been in all the jet-set cities...Stockton, Barstow, Victorville...and tomorrow, Lodi! :) . By the way, how dated is the term "jet-set"? My first thing has to be to let you know that I've extended the poll on "What is the most significant UFO event of the past 50 years?" If you haven't voted on it, please do...the more people the better. I've extended it because it is going to get some media exposure this week, I think. Probably EDGE OF REALITY on Saturday, and SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO some time this week. Possibly Art Bell as well. You now have until Monday, June 23rd. Let your voice be heard! I have to formalize a format, though, since a number of people have named a couple of things and then sort of left it up to me to pick, which doesn't work. I'll let you "split" your single vote between up to four events. If you pick two as "most significant", then each one will get one half of a vote. You may also name up to ten "honorable mentions". I'll put these into a special, separate category. They'll get mentioned, but won't be counted in the tally. Here's a "form" to help structure it: _____________________________________ The most significant UFO event of the past fifty years is ______________________ (you get one vote here, but you may split it up to four ways) My honorable mentions (up to ten) are __________________ ______________________________________ If you have already voted, I would appreciate it if you do so again using this format. If you haven't, please do...the more, the better. As to other stuff, all the major outlets will cover UFOs this week, because of the 50th anniversary on June 24th. Some of them are "holding off" until the anniversary of Roswell, second week in July (although the date is somewhat debatable, and some folks may "celebrate" earlier than that. ABC News also recently ran a video of a lake monster from Turkey...I couldn't get it from their website, so I can't judge it. There has also been a lot of press this week on the March UFO sightings in Phoenix...why it's running now, I haven't figured out. I will try and do a supplement this week on books and magazines, etc. Way past my bedtime as it is ;) . Now, let's get into the listings! Remember, all times are Pacific. FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. The pick of the week has to be the COACH "very special episode" about alien abduction on this Wednesday on ABC at 8:30 PM. It was really quite extraordinary...it's like an episode on infertility, breast cancer or aids, in the sense that is a sitcom acting like it is treating a serious subject. The ep is called SOMEWHERE OUT THERE. 21 JUMP STREET has a ghost episode called OLD HAUNTS IN A NEW AGE on FX on Monday at 10:00 PM. Another "street" show, HOMICIDE: LIFE ON THE STREET has another ghost show, A GHOST OF A CHANCE on Sunday at 11:00 PM on Lifetime. GILLIGAN'S ISLAND has GHOST A GO GO on Wednesday at 7:00 AM on TNT. THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN eps featuring Bigfoot are thought by some to have influenced public perceptions. One of them, THE SECRET OF BIGFOOT (which also involves aliens) runs on Monday at 6/23 at 2:00 PM on SCIFI. MAGAZINES, NEWSLETTERS, PERIODICALS, ETC. TIME MAGAZINE has a cover story on Roswell this week. Haven't read it yet. USA TODAY did a piece (on Thursday, June 19) on the Phoenix sightings ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://www.transbay.net/~beckjord/chat/ OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. They didn't list ahead, this week, that I could see. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-8 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 6/16 (#109R): UFO DUPLICATION (ETs clone a boy. but which is which?); CLARA'S FRIEND (ghost friend for a girl) --week of 6/23 (#110R): THE HUNTER (Is a werewolf mutilating cattle?); THE HEALER (teenager can heal) Saturday, June 21 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Details not available at post-time. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MISSING APEMEN (the yeti) Sunday, June 22 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Art interviews authors Sheila Ostrander & Lynn Schroder, who wrote a classic book*, PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN. Appears they may have a sequel out. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5066): OHIO'S AREA 51!; ANYONE CAN SEE THE LIGHT! (Diane Morrisey on NDEs); CHICAGO'S MOST HAUNTED; MYSTERIES FROM ABOVE (photographer Marilyn Bridges takes aerial photos of mystery spots); LUNAR DISCOVERIES (ice on the moon?) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: PROPHETS AND DOOM 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5066): OHIO'S AREA 51!; ANYONE CAN SEE THE LIGHT! (Diane Morrisey on NDEs); CHICAGO'S MOST HAUNTED; MYSTERIES FROM ABOVE (photographer Marilyn Bridges takes aerial photos of mystery spots); LUNAR DISCOVERIES (ice on the moon?) 7:00 PM, FOX, BEYOND BELIEF: new series...presents "real" paranormal cases, and phony ones, and you get to guess which ones are which 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5066): OHIO'S AREA 51!; ANYONE CAN SEE THE LIGHT! (Diane Morrisey on NDEs); CHICAGO'S MOST HAUNTED; MYSTERIES FROM ABOVE (photographer Marilyn Bridges takes aerial photos of mystery spots); LUNAR DISCOVERIES (ice on the moon?) Monday, June 23 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ALIEN INTERVIEW (this ep ((they are all reruns currently)) sparked a lot of web-talk. It purports to show a segment of a videotape showing an alien being interrogated. (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, WORLDWIDE WEIRD! (Gee, I wonder where they got the name...) Tuesday, June 24 (50th Anniversary of "first" flying saucer sighting!) SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Grand Junction UFOs (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#10): NOSTRADAMUS; UFO CONVENTION ; INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE Wednesday, June 25 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#11): LIFE ON MARS; PSYCHIC DETECTIVE; THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, QUEST FOR THE ARK 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052): goverment denials of UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFO sightings; New Mexico's Highway 666 9:00 PM, 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, QUEST FOR THE ARK 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052) goverment denials of UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFO sightings; New Mexico's Highway 666 Thursday, June 26 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: IMMINENT DISCLOSURE ("UFO activists"...of course, "The Announcement" has been expected for at least forty years...)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#12) : WALL OF VOODOO; ALIEN ARTISTS (experiencers' depictions); MESSAGES IN THE CROPS (crop-circles) 6:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: DRAGONS: MYTHS AND LEGENDS 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SCI-FI BUZZ (will discuss UFOs in conjunction with MEN IN BLACK coming out) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND 10:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: DRAGONS: MYTHS AND LEGENDS 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SCI-FI BUZZ (will discuss UFOs in conjunction with MEN IN BLACK coming out) Friday, June 27 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#13): CREATING THE ILLUSION (stage magic): ON PINS & NEEDLES (acupuncture); LOOKING FOR LOVE (psychic stuff to help you find it) 7:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, FUTURE FANTASTIC: aliens This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Hoagland on STS 80 From: ilyes@earthlink.net (by way of Museum Curator <beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:03:22 -0400 Subject: Hoagland on STS 80 tO THE ufo iNSIDERS: THIS RE hOAGLAND AND sts 80 ---- AS IF NOBODY ELSE HAD BEEN WORKING ON IT! it was another 'must have' tape night on Art Bell ... a good sneak descriptive preview of the new mindboggling STS-80 video that is going to absolutely rock the science casbah as regards to 'others' having too much fun in Earth orbit in full view of our space shuttle cameras with [Hoagland is now convinced as has video to prove it] humans inside NORAD's **Cheyenne Mountain** facility doing the remote camera control .... clearly not only *anticipating* some of the action (ie the footage begins with a long distance zoom in on a tiny little spot in the middle of the city **Santiago, Chile** holding tightly to that spot until _something_ *very bright* moving so fast it's a blur comes barreling *up* from said spot) but then also tracking and zooming in on clearly anomolous OBJECTS in space all around the shuttle itself doing things in decidedly NON-Newtonian, NON-orbital, NON-"ice crystal" fashion . Don Ratch: is this anything new, beyond what we have been doing with our little group??? ---Erik ... Hoagland has a blue ribbon bunch of retired NASA orbital, payload, launch etc engineers and scientists who DID the work of putting our stuff up and keeping it up and landing it on the Moon and Mars and so forth for over 30 years doing an in depth analysis of said tape .... the overwhelming operative initial responce from them and from everyone *currently* at NASA/Houston who has been quietly shown this tape? .... .... "MINDBOGGLING" is the decided insider buzz avi files of this [STS-80] shuttle tape and others can be seen at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/nasa/nasa.htm are we ready yet ..... ? bill __________ end Fwd Comment: it is possible that something new has been done. We will see. Meanwhile, you read it here, the sts 48 tape is more important for event 3-B, which shows an actual flying saucer --- which is more important than all the other stuff in all missions, since it has recognition for the public. Do not confuse event 3-B with the other changing of course events....in STS 48. We have all these here in the Museum. Erik
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Hoagland's disclosures on Art Bell From: ilyes@earthlink.net (by way of Museum Curator <beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:04:31 -0400 Subject: Hoagland's disclosures on Art Bell To the Insiders lists: ___________________________________________________________________________ > Something to look forward to! :-) - i - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:35:26 -0400 To: snetnews@world.std.com From: Bill Teague <bteague@ixc.net> Subject: SNET: Hoagland plays his hand .... Reply-to: snetnews@world.std.com whoa folks! ..... (one more time ... with feeling) Hoagland on Art Bell this morning predicted that sometime within the next few days the Mars Pathfinder will 'be lost' .... and then 'be found' .... with the [albeit secret] intended result that it's original and widely announced target landing day of July 4th "Independence Day" (made by Clinton among others) and location of that landing will be altered .... new arrival day will be, according to Hoagland, July 20th and the new landing site? ...... Cydonia .... this all has to do with an incredible amount of redundant data now collected since the very earliest NASA missions into orbit and outerspace that ties together significant, *direct*, and incredibly complex relationships between almost every single mission take off time and Moon/Mars landing site selection and times with certain alignments with the Orion and Sirius star systems ... he also brought to bear the deep connection between certain Egyptian born persons and these take off and landing site selections and now has stumbled on a tie in with the American city of Phoenix, Arizona something of monumental importance is going to occur he believes with all of this here in a very short while and is asking people in Phoenix now to be on the lookout for any unusual crews or teams, possibly military in uniform, with possibly strange 'equipment' doing 'something' [digging or possibly 'listening'] in Phoenix over the next few weeks and to FAX him at (201) 271-1703 immediately with anything interesting 'story at 10' ... keep an eye on his webpage over the next few days as he is going to layout as much of the supporting data as he can and give background to what he believes is about to happen and why .... http://www.enterprisemission.com/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: ilyes | snetnews |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:05:32 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' Date: 19 Jun 97 09:23:07 EDT From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' > In the intervening time I have shown conclusive proof in my talks > at UFO Conferences that Kent's star witnesses against the AA film, > the two cameramen MacGovern and Longo, don't know what they are > talking about. Why don't you share your "conclusive proof" with the rest of the list? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Arizona Republic Chimes in.... From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:06:06 -0400 Subject: Arizona Republic Chimes in.... Phoenix UFO sighting in spotlight By Chris Fiscus and Richard Ruelas The Arizona Republic June 20, 1997 Those mysterious lights over Phoenix appeared again Thursday, but this time they flashed on television screens across the country as the major networks picked up on a months-old UFO puzzle. Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Emma Barwood sat with a three-person panel on CBS This Morning to talk about the large, slow and quiet formation of lights reported over Phoenix in March. Katie and Matt chatted about it on NBC's Today Show. CNN ran a long piece throughout the day on its regular network and every half-hour on CNN Headline News. The story passed through Tom Brokaw's lips on Wednesday night's NBC Nightly News. And through Peter Jennings' the same night on ABC's World News Tonight. And a photo of the "huge V-shaped object" made the front page of Wednesday's USA Today. Even Gov. Fife Symington got into the act, grabbing some face time by holding a 5 p.m. news conference at the state Capitol. Beforehand, aides promised he would announce "serious developments" in the case. One local news outlet, Channel 3 (KTVK), was so taken by the story that it carried the event live. But the news conference turned out to be a spoof. Flanked by two DPS officers, Symington described how the law-enforcement agency had solved the alien mystery by capturing one of them. Then, with most of his staff looking on, Symington aide Jay Heiler walked in wearing an alien suit. Symington said he wasn't trying to ridicule Arizonans who believe in space creatures. But he doesn't believe the state has been the tourist destination for the alien world. "I don't discount any more than Carl Sagan . . . the fact that the universe is such a large place and so old that . . . there may well be life out there," he said. "On the other hand, if this particular event were truly significant, I think you would probably have national security involved, the Air Force and everybody else working on it." Pretty big doings for a story that began so long ago, on the evening of March 13. Calls poured in that night, starting a little after 8 p.m. Callers from Phoenix, Glendale, Scottsdale and across the state reported sightings to Luke Air Force Base, media outlets and a UFO center in Seattle. Charles Painter of Sun City West was driving from Tucson to Phoenix that night, when he saw the lights near Casa Grande. "Right ahead of us, there were three lights. They were coming directly at us," the retired train traffic controller said. "They were much larger than airplane lights." The lights were in a triangle-shaped pattern. "We even pulled off the highway to listen for jet engines," he said. "We didn't hear any." Is Phoenix "Area 52," following Nevada's famous UFO vortex, Area 51? "You had an alien spaceship -- no proof, it is my opinion -- that may have been up to three miles long going along Interstate 10 with traffic driving under it," said Peter Davenport, director of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle. The bizarre light show has been a consistent topic of conversation on Coast to Coast with Art Bell, a live overnight call-in program that airs locally on KFYI-AM. Bell said Thursday that he's bewildered that so many national media outlets have turned their sights on the story in such little time. "Don't you guys find it a little amazing that MSNBC, CNN, NBC and ABC, all on the same night ran a big deal on the lights that occurred on March 13? Isn't it a little odd?" Bell asked from his home in Pahrump, Nev. "I understand how pack journalism runs with a breaking story, but we're talking about a story that's three months old, and it all hits all the major media, ker-thump, on the same night. That's not possible." The rush of attention to the stale story is made more curious to UFO buffs by the fact that researcher Richard Hougland [sic] appeared on the Bell show early Wednesday morning, predicting that the nation's attention would be turned to Phoenix because of something to do with UFOs. "And within hours of me doing this, all hell breaks loose on a story nationwide that was dead (three) months ago," Hougland [sic] said Thursday from his New York home. Hougland [sic] said that prediction coming true leads him to put more faith in his second prediction: NASA will reveal the existence of life on Mars on July 20. The predictions are the result of 15 years of complicated research, Hougland [sic] said. Basically his thought is that Phoenix's position in the universe is mathematically linked to a point on Mars. His prediction is that the Pathfinder probe will land on that point and discover Martian ruins of an ancient civilization. The Pathfinder is supposed to land on Mars on July 4, but Hougland [sic] predicts that date will be delayed until the 20th, making his numbers add up. He said the recent resurgence in stories about the Phoenix UFO is part of a planned pattern by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. "I think somebody picked up the phone and said, "Go,' " Hougland [sic] said. But Johnathan Wald, a producer at NBC Nightly News, offered a less sinister reason: The piece appeared in USA Today, and all the national outlets followed in a pack. "It's a slow news time," Wald said from the network's New York headquarters, "plus, we all love a good UFO story." Hougland [sic] theorized that USA Today was under orders to run the story on Wednesday, knowing it would touch off a national media blitz. Neither the reporter nor editor of the USA Today story could be reached for comment Thursday. Davenport said he tried to get the story out when it first happened, but found a lazy and disbelieving media, not willing to listen to a UFO buff. He said he called the major networks, Associated Press, CNN and others on March 14: "All I got was a stifled yawn. . . . They're all a bunch of milquetoast lapdogs." The story has buzzed about since March, even if the major media ignored it. The Arizona Republic has received at least 50 calls since the March incident from those looking for information and reprints of the story. That number is more remarkable considering the reprint service takes calls only from 9 to 11 a.m. Barwood said she has been "absolutely overwhelmed with phone calls." Doctors. Lawyers. Active and retired pilots, active and retired military. Barwood wrote to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., last month, asking for the Air Force to investigate. "Many people would appreciate it if you would request the Air Force to follow through on this inquiry," she wrote. "Since this incident is a concern to so many people, I would appreciate it if you would consider investigating the appearance of these lights." McCain did forward the letter to Air Force Maj. Gen. Lansford Trapp, "respectfully referring this matter to you for consideration." McCain's staff in Washington, D.C., said Thursday that the senator still is awaiting a response. Barwood earlier had called for Phoenix to investigate, but was told that the city's hands were tied because, essentially, it didn't have an air force. The DPS doesn't have the resources or expertise of the Air Force either, but Symington, at an unrelated news conference at noon Thursday, called for the state agency to look into the matter. He was joking, but the AP ran the story anyway. "We'll get to the bottom of it and clear it up here so that everybody will know exactly what happened over Arizona," Symington said. Too bad for Barwood. She was simply giddy at the idea of a DPS probe. She has taken a beating after unsuccessfully calling for the Phoenix investigation. "I think that is absolutely wonderful," she said before the jig was up. "It shows he (Symington) has a lot of guts, doesn't it? At the very least, somebody's doing something. "Whatever it was, it was something. Why is everybody afraid to look into it?" Contributing to this article was Kris Mayes of The Arizona Republic.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: ZZZZAP! From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:03:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:07:21 -0400 Subject: Re: ZZZZAP! >Subject: ZZZZAP! >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 19:04:52 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> > If you guys are disposed to help out some school kids > with a project to emphasize Nicol Tesla's contributions > you can all this link to your page if you wish. Hi Pat, Perhaps there may be a way to scoff the video that was made about Tesla's life and contributions. I tried to watch it a few times but kept falling asleep. Still, it does recount the remarkable life and times of Tesla. Take care for now, Cathy Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Weaver Interview (CNN): No Dummy Tests Until Early From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:44:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:43:30 -0400 Subject: Weaver Interview (CNN): No Dummy Tests Until Early As it is well known, the USAF has completely reversed its position concerning the alien bodies that some witnesses have related to the Roswell crash. In a new report, due to be released in a week, the Air Force takes their testimony at face value. They just mistook the date by at least three years. For what they saw was not alien bodies, according to the Pentagon, but dummies dropped in parachute tests in the early fifties. The report is edited by Colonel Weaver from USAF Intelligence?, and this morning at 8.26 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours) CNN broadcast the first interview that Weaver has accepted, with comments by CNN and Elaine Douglass from the Mutual UFO Network. According to the feature Colonel Weaver has discovered that the bodies "were really vinyl plastic dummies that dropped from balloons to test the impact from high altitude parachute jumps." Full transcript: Weaver: "And these dummies, of which there were several different types, had these kinds of non-specific features. They were dressed in flight suits, and there's a good table of comparison as well. There are lots of photographs in this book that will show the comparison between the people who claimed they saw something strange and what was actually being tested in the desert at that time." CNN: "But these tests didn't take place until the early 1950's. Three years after the Roswell sightings. Colonel Weaver, who edited the report, says the Pentagon believes witnesses simply got the year wrong. UFO researchers don't buy that." Douglass: "I think it's nonsense. It's absolute nonsense, but I don't blame...eh...really fault the Air Force people that are putting out this absolute nonsense because they don't have a choice. They have not been told the truth. They are not in the loop." CNN: "The Air Force report comes as yet another explanation appears in Popular Mechanics, that the Roswell wreckage was an incendiary balloon piloted by Japanese. With the latest flurry of UFO sightings in Arizona neither Douglass nor Weaver believe the new Air Force report will end the speculation." Weaver: "I...do (sic!)...certainly not gonna dissuade everybody, and the report was never intended just to finally prove to everybody that they were wrong." Douglass: "Roswell is not going to go away because the UFOs are not going away. Apparently!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:45 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:27 -0400 Subject: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:16:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Don't put yourself in the same class as Ed K., it is unbecoming on you Bob. >Sure, I've given you flak, some of it you even deserved <g>, but I know you >and know that you can be a decent and reasonable man. Investigate Kent >Jeffrey before you blindly jump on the disinformation train. Ok. Maybe I'm not unbiased about KJ. I freely admit to being royally pissed off with him over that crap he put in the MUFON Journal about the AA film. As you know, I've shown with genuine documents that the statements from his cameramen witnesses are pure nonsense. He came into the film debate with very strong preconceptions, as Don Ecker has pointed out, that the film simply could not possibly be real because "an alien wouldn't look like that". I realize that the Roswell Declaration is not just about Roswell, and would support changing the name now, while there is still time. I have read the Declaration, and was an early signer, and still support what it says and attempts to do 100%. But I no longer trust KJ to be a good faith delivery boy. He would be like an athiest presiding at Mass. Kent is a debunker. Actions and words speak for themselves. He tried to debunk the AA film without doing any real study, and without bothering to learn the basic facts. Now it looks like he is doing the same with Roswell, and with equally poor reasoning and witness. Like many others, I am suspicious of him and his motives, and particularly suspicious of his timing. But perhaps he is not a disinformation agent. He may just be seriously inflexible mentally, and up against things which are far out of his league. If this is the case, he owes it to all of us to just quietly turn over the signed Declarations to someone who still has faith and quietly withdraw from the field. Why do I suspect that this will not happen? Rebecca, you can be so abrasive at times, and really get under my skin! But I still love you anyway! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:49 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:59 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:32:26 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says Shouldn't the headline actually read: "US Air Force were dummies, aliens say." I suppose it is just remotely possible that the Acme Dummy Company was having a sale on child-sized rubber dummies (guaranteed to have no nose, mouth, or ears) in 1948. And I suppose that a certain Wile E. Coyote may have gotten wind of this, and rigged some up to balloons and dropped them from great height. Hey, did anyone look to see if there was a squashed Roadrunner under any of them?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent's worldview.... From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:38 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:45:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent's worldview.... >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:23:37 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Kent's worldview.... >Wow. Talk about "a loud of assumptions." John makes Kent Jeffrey >seem the soul of modesty by comparison. Of course we've heard >this sort of thing before, this desire to occultize the UFO phenomenon >at the expense of reason and evidence. Elsewhere I've written >extensively on this desire to magnify a genuine mystery out of all >proportion. ><snip> Jerry, What a load of nonsense! I keep hearing people say that the UFO phenomenon is only 50 or 100 years old. In fact, there is good historical evidence (and not just from von Daniken), that this phenomenon has been with us since the dawn of human history, at least, if not well before. To discount John's comments and deny the facts is to take a "head in the sand" position. John knows what he is talking about. Why does his proposition frighten you so? >When we discuss the UFO phenomenon, it would be wise, I >think, if we stuck to what we can reasonably demonstrate, not >just to what we want to be true. That's should be as true for >John as for Kent. And for Jerry as well! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:40 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:45:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >I very much agree with these assessments of Kent's assumptions. It's an >oxymoron to imply that aliens sufficiently evolved to have traveled from >there to here, and who could be tens of thousands of years farther along >in their civilization than we are, would be constrained by the laws of >physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand >those laws! Jim, An important point learned from history is that science, and before it theology, has always had a COMPLETE explanation for how the universe works. This is necessary for the mental stability of the scientist/theologian. They allow for small modifications as new information is obtained or new revelations granted by gods or via prophets, but the overall schematic of "how things are" is etched in stone. Periodically, major new information emerges and a forced change in this world view takes place, but always against great resistance, and never easily. We stand today on the edge of one of those changes, which will produce an integration of science and theology. A new science of the soul. We will understand and use technology which will thrust into the "occult". "The method of science, the aim of religion", as a very wise man said at the turn of this century. People on both sides of this chasm, the scientists and the theologians, will resist this merger, but the chasm is an artificial one created by western culture, and it grows narrower and narrower. For people with the courage to face this change, the future is exciting indeed. For the mechanistic minds and the theocratic minds, it is terrifying. But neither can stop it. I highly recommend Joe Lewels' new book _The God Hypothesis_ as an introduction to what is going on. Another piece of required reading is Amit Goswami's _The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates Reality_. Reality ain't what it used to be!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Phoenix lights Quicktime Movie... From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:09:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:47:12 -0400 Subject: Phoenix lights Quicktime Movie... A 1.3 meg quicktime movie of the Phoenix lights can be found at: http://cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/phoenix.lights.24.1.3.mov Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:32:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:48:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: 19 Jun 97 21:03:00 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO conversation >>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:08:40 +0200 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >> conversation >>Hi Bob, >>Just a riminder.... I still didn't see any evidence (and I'm waiting for 6 >>months now) of this conversation other than what is written in text on the >>web. Until John Locker comes up with some audio material, I'm regarding >>this as a hoax. >Karel, >I SAW the video in San Marino, and I HEARD the astronaut say that. >Now we need to know if the video is legit. >Bob Allright, Bob... you're the first independant person i've heard of who saw the video. That brightens up the subject for me. Karel. ------------------------====### ATMM ###====--------------------- Karel Bagchus karel@worldonline.nl Audax-Tros MultiMedia tel (+31) 035 - 625 45 45 Ceintuurbaan 2 fax (+31) 035 - 625 45 55 1217 HN Hilversum the Netherlands ------------------------====############====---------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: how many fingers? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 11:00:51 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:49:13 -0400 Subject: Re: how many fingers? >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: how many fingers? >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:18:14 -0400 Hi Greg, I've read this goldarned thing cover to cover twice (not recommended! Danger to sanity!), and I can't find any six fingered blokes in it. The problem, as you bring out in both of your posts, is that Corso is so infernally vague about everything. In the bit about transistors, he doesn't even seem to make the distinction between transistors, ICs and printed circuits, three very different animals. His explanation of how a vacuum tube works sure ain't how I was taught in electronics class! I think he is a techno-dweeb. I've been told, but have not been able to confirm from TV listings, that Corso will be on Nightline tonight. Worth a watch if he's really gonna be on. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:28:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:53:51 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Subject: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 21:37:40 -0400 >From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> >Greetings List! > On June 18th, 1997, (Wednesday), in the last part of ABC News 6:30 PM >edition, there was a small bit about Roswell. There was also a small >segment about Phoenix. A video was shown of some large lights over the >city. Several witnesses were interviewed claiming they saw a large >triangular shaped craft fly over their house. Other researchers were >interviews as well, albiet briefly to fit into the sound bite/byte :-) . > The segment ended with Peter Jennings (who I respect) smirking. > I was just curious how the American's on the List view their news >media when such a vitally important subject is treated with such >(seeming) short shrift by the major networks. > Surely there must be some hope? >Regards, >Paul. IMHO (as a former radio news reporter): Americans probably don't have a unified view of the media, but the reaction of ABC news is no surprise. To be quite honest, there is very little actual "investigative reporting" going on, unless it happens to attract an audiance. This is usually on a local level, and involves known issues that are easily defined. Keep in mind that for most of the media, this is an old story that has been given new life as a result of the involvement of a Councilwoman and now the Governor. The story is not that there were sightings, but that a Councilwoman is up in arms about it. The reports have gone back to explain what the issue is all about, but the focus remains on what is happening now, rather than what happened then. As far as the reaction is concerned, I am reminded of a comment made by a science writer for the Washington Post, who appeared as part of a panel discussion on the press coverage of UFOs. This person candidly stated that the paper was NEVER going to print anything they didn't believe to be true. This means that the "beliefs" of the reporter and editors would have to be changed to have them pursue the issue, and that would be similar to trying to change their religious beliefs in many cases. If UFOs and Alien Visitation are a reality. It will result in a major paradigm shift for most people, if they were to accept it as fact. That is directly reflected in the view of the subject that we see in the media, and so it is usually handled in a joking manner. I would also like to have the media become more involved, but also believe that is not likely to happen unless there is a public outcry for the truth, or there is an economic advantage to pursueing that line of inquiry. They both could become factors as the new Century approaches, but so far that isn't the case. Just a few comments from the peanut gallery.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Dateline NBC Special on Roswell Tuesday June 24 From: Robert Herloski <herloski@scan.mc.xerox.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:04:41 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:54:33 -0400 Subject: Dateline NBC Special on Roswell Tuesday June 24 See: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/dateline/onairthisweek.asp -- Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: The 'Arizona' Media Blitz From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:42:44 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:55:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Arizona' Media Blitz >From: xalium@netwrx.net >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Arizona Media Blitz >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:53:45 EST >You can't turn on the tv or radio anymore without hearing about the March 13 >Arizona sightings. The media coverage is heavier than coverage after the >sightings originally happened. >Why? >Months after the sighting, it appears to me that someone has pushed the >media button to cover a this story. I am requesting information from people >who recorded the coverage. I want to know when did the first major coverage >start. Then we can tell all the bandwagoneers who just jumped on the story. >But how did it start? >How does a story from months ago become a media blitz? Hi Tom, I am a journalist. There is no media button. What's going on is that with the Roswell anniversary coming soon there is suddenly far more interest in UFOs than previously. I live in the Netherlands and UFOs appear in the local media on a regular basis now with always references to Roswell. From what I see on CNN and NBC and read in the Herald Tribune, the situation is the same in the US. >There was coverage on every local news channel in Phoenix about a UFO Press >conference at 5:00 p.m. held by Governor Fife Symington. He states he was >going to launch an official state investigation into the March 13 sightings, >with the local Police department. He claimed to have new secret evidence. >Then he brought out a "Grey Alien", which was a human with a rubber Grey >mask. He turned the entire event into a joke. It pissed off all the news >reports who thought they had a good scoop, taxpayers, and UFO witnesses. >Reports are conflicting from different news channels. Why not have a laugh. To people heavily involved in UFOs a stunt like this can seem offending. But look at it this way: the mask was a visual prop that makes for a good photo-op. Thereby the level of awareness of UFOs is raised further. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 All Hell breaks loose! From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:00:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:56:33 -0400 Subject: All Hell breaks loose! Hi Errol, hi all, It's happened! The national media has finally reported the mass sighting in Phoenix (March 13,1997) My telephone has been jumping off the hook. Media, researchers, friends, everyone has questions. The 'BIG QUESTION' is why they all (media) waited two months to report it. It has the feel of, "O-K, release it NOW!" all over it. As if some one pushed a button somewhere and it's suddenly alright to report it. A lot of folks have been jumping up and down about Phoenix for a long time (self included) so I'm not complaining. I do have questions about the 'timing' of this media blitz. I keep telling the producers that are calling that "I wasn't there!" that they should speak to guys like Tom King or Bill Hamilton, (they're the ones whose video is being splattered all over the media.) Even my friends are concerned. A couple who laughed at first are now grinning out of the other side of their mugs! <G> Some want to know how I knew that UFO's were real! I have told them that when they begin to hover over their homes (if not introduce themselves personally) they will understand, "how I knew!" <BG> Budds afriad it may be a 'set-up' to discredit the sighting and anyone connected with it. He may be right, who knows. I don't see it that way. I told him that the second the alien presence becomes common knowledge, we all get to retire and go back to our lives. I look forward to laying down this damn heavy cross! Let's see how the media follows up and what kind of investigation is conducted,... if any! John Velez, Rep. Intruders Foundation Online * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 14:26:34 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:58:30 -0400 Subject: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We Stop Him! >From: EdKomarek@aol.com >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:36:19 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Debunker' Kent Jeffery: How Do We >Stop Him! << Ed Wrote; >Thank goodness there are a few seasoned UFO veterans like Bob Shell >who know the score. I'm obviously confused. Bob claimed to have no real interest in UFOs back in the summer of '95. I take it that 2 years is considered 'veteran'? Is 17 years considered 'Methusalan'? >In order for a coverup of this magnitude to succeed requires >that UFO/ET truths be kept from the mainstream press and public awareness. Thank god they've managed to hush it so far, eh? >Its time to >defend ourselves from psychological attacks such as these. Otherwise the >coverup will may never end. I personally see no psychological attack in someone telling what they perceive as the truth to them. We might as well tag the information that Milton released as a psychological attack, the Dulce papers being an extension that was *intended* to cause a modicum of panic. If Kent has done what he feels is right, however long it worried him then I think we should be a tad more supportive of someone who actually had the balls to suggest the thing in the first place rather than scream 'Jihad!' everytime a beloved member of the flock turns. The threat of that scenario is more psychological than one man's actions. what it boils down to is an innate desire to see someone beaten for rescinding the word of Roswell rather than actually providing a link between the USAF and any one researcher. Bet your sweet bippy this is political, but it's more to do with the perceived gathering of power in an audience rather than the machiavellian manueverings of secret government organisations, most of which don't even seem to talk to one another, let alone being able to co-ordinate conspiracies of the nature that are considered everyday fodder for the Internet. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 14:26:37 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: 18 Jun 97 16:37:53 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview Bob wrote; >Your post puts the whole thing into perspective, and shows clearly that >Ken Jeffrey, and many other UFO researchers, have nary a clue as to >what it is they are really dealing with. _Which_ UFO researchers in particular, Bob? James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Corso's book From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:40:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:52:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:39:46 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Corso's book >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>Subject: Corso's book >>Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:25 -0400 >Greg wrote: >>The key to Corso's UFO information is the title of the book -- "The >>Day After Roswell." This refers to something initially quite limited, >>and fascinating -- what happened to the crash debris. Corso says that >>it initially got scattered scientific study, some of which led to the >>development of the transitor. >Greg, >The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by >William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell >Telephone Laboratories. This is true. But at that time this was the "neanderthal" fo transistors and not even a practical or useful product. >Briefly setting this in some perspective: >John V. Atanasoff, a professor at Iowa State College, and Clifford >Berry, a graduate student, conceived an all-electronic computer that >applied Boolean algebra to computer circuitry. In 1939, they designed >a prototype and in 1973, a judge declared it to be the first automatic >digital computer. Invention of the idea of a functional computer based on simple already existing mathematics is not very phenomenal. >The code-breaking Colossus computer was designed and built in 1941 at >the University of Manchester, England and Colossus Mark II followed >in 1944. So? What does this prove? >The first information-processing digital computer actually built was >the Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator, or Mark I computer. >Completed in 1944, this electromechanical device was designed by >American Howard H. Aiken, a Harvard engineer working with IBM. >Around half the length of a football field and containing some 500 >miles of wiring, its purpose was to create ballistic charts for the >U.S. Navy. I'm so impressed. >February of 1946 saw an unveiling of the Electronic Numerical >Integrator and Computer (ENIAC), the result of a joint project between >the U.S. government and the University of Pennsylvania. Consisting of >17,468 vacuum tubes, some 70,000 resistors and 5 million soldered >joints, it weighed approximately 30 tons and required 1000 square feet >of floor space. Entirely electronic, it consumed up to 160 kilowatts >of power, sufficient to dim the lights in part of Philadelphia. > Sounds real high-tech to me! > >Vacuum tubes were required for electromechanical circuit switching and >the regulated conduction of electrical current - basically switching >and amplification - but they consumed too much power, gave off too >much heat, took up too much space, cost too much to produce, and they >burned out. > >Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen's research addressed these problems and >in searching for a suitable alternative they decided to try >semiconductors, materials that were adequate, although not >exceptional, conductors of electricity. > >Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar diodes, >they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that small >changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a suitable >medium would produce active electronic effects and when they passed >current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated the >principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid >semiconducting material. > >Their concept was based on the fact that it is possible to selectively >control the flow of electricity through silicon, designating some >areas as current conductors and adjacent areas as insulators. > >The point-contact transistor amplifier became the building block for >all modern electronics and the foundation for microchip and computer >technology. > A simple solution to a simple problem, too bad they had to work with stone axes and bearskins. > >>But then it languished, until the early '60s when Corso went to work >>for a foreign technology unit of the army. > >[...] > >>If somebody's thinking is stimulated by a fragment of an alien TV >>set, they still have to theorize and experiment to imitate the thing >>-- and it's those theories and experiments that show up in published >>data, not the inspiration for them. > > >As for lasers and fibre (fiber) optics... > >Einstein is credited as the "Father" of the laser. In 1917, he >theorised photons and stimulated emission and was awarded the Nobel >prize for his work. > It's one thing to concieve of a thing, quite another to make a practical working model. >The first microwave laser was with us in 1954 and projected a beam of >ammonia molecules through a system of focusing electrodes. The first >optical laser appeared in 1960, it's design based on a rod of ruby >crystal which produced pulses of red light. > >In 1961, a laser based on a mixture of helium and neon gases was >constructed and produced continuous output of red light. > >Shortly after the announcement of the first successful optical laser, >other laboratories around the world successfully lased different >substrates and as manufacturing techniques improved, lasers rapidly >made the transition from the laboratory to commercial applications. > Sounds a little late for a Roswell explanation. > >The principle behind fibre optics dates back to antiquity and has been >used for centuries in prisms and illuminated fountains. > >In 1870, Englishman John Tyndall demonstrated to the Royal Society >that light travelled along a curved stream of water and in 1880, >Scotsman Alexander Graham Bell took the concept further in his >photophone experiment, which transmitted voice signals on beams of >light. Bell shelved the idea, as there was too much interference with >the light beam and the signals couldn't travel any meaningful >distance. > >In 1926, another Scotsman, John Logie Baird, patented an early form >of colour television which used glass rods to carry light. An idea >ahead of its time, little progress was made until the 1950's when the >first fibrescopes were developed. > Still too late for Roswell. >Although scientists were aware that optical fibre could transmit >light, the transmission interference seemed to be an insurmountable >problem and it wasn't until 1970 that Corning Glass researchers, Drs >Robert Maurer, Donald Keck, and Peter Schultz designed and produced >the first optical fibre which met the specification for wide use in >telecommunications. > What are you saying? They sent their fiberoptic cables 23 years back in time? >The discovery by the Corning group was soon recognised as a >breakthrough and led the way for the commercialisation of optical >fibre as a revolution in telecommunications. > > >These are all of course verifiable facts. > I have no trouble accepting your facts, but what is the relavence? > > >James. >E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com > If someone said all our current technology was invented by aliens and found and then used by us, I would dissagree. If someone said that early crude human technologies were advanced quickly and suddenly by stealing (through reverse engineering) alien technology, I would say that could be so. Especially when you consider how blazingly fast our technology has advanced in the past 50 years. Compare it to the last 200. If remains found at roswell are true fibreoptics and real functional transistors and/or computer chips, etc. then it's obvious that WE did not invent them and they would have to be alien in nature. The materials simply didn't exist in that form in our technology at that time. Fiberoptic cables in 1947? That's pretty damning evidence of superior technology. Mogul Shmogul. Give me a break. History lessons about early prototypes and theories do not convince me that human technology was fully functional to create the Roswell debris. And please don't pull a Kent Jeffrey by pretending it's only a weather ballon by ignoring the testimony of all the witnesses who don't fit your theory. I wish people would spend more time thinking things out thoroughly before trying to impose simplistic or inapplicable explanations to debunk something. I do not agree with the idea Sagan presented that basically said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. This is a "human" attitude. Nature, computers and the universe do not care what we think is or isn't. The same level of proof used to prove the existence of planets, black holes, or other scientific discoveries should apply to UFO's. No more, no less. Just a hundred years ago they would have laughed at most of the technology we have today- it would have been UFO's to them. Who cares how much it takes to convince a bunch of techno-neaderthals? A lot of so-called self-proclaimed experts (i.e. authors), take a stand on the Roswell issue based on what slice of the data pie they think they can swallow. If they want to be that way so be it. I take offense when they make arrogant proclamations that their view is the truth, period, stop thinking and agree with them or you're a fool. (Listening Kent?) Mr. Jeffrey proved nothing, except he has chosen his belief system about Roswell (his slice of the data pie). I did not find his arguments convincing and found him violating Stan Friedman's addage: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence many many times. I don't agree with the assumption made many times that those men he interviewed would have to be aware of what was going on. The UFO issue has always been at the most top of top secret issues in the military and their paranoia would not allow them to tell a soul who did't need to know, and even then skipping over some of those who should know. If secrecy back then was what Kent and his pilot friends think it was, the UFO enigma would have been solved long ago. I implore researchers out there to stop trying to find the simplest way to debunk Roswell/UFO's and stick to a thorough, scientific, unprejudiced approach. You have to incorporated all the evidence, not just the stuff that appeals to you or fits your explanation. And another thing, stop lambasting and/or dismissing witnesses because you do not like their personalities or the way they think/act. If their testimony does not seem to jibe once in a while, there are perfectly good human reasons other than lying. Those witnesses who are in question should be re-interviewed again, at length, in a positive and cooperative situation so they can get it out right. An investigators job is to sort out opinion, fact, contamination, and distorted memories if they exist and obtain the best information possible-not dismiss them because they aren't the perfect witnesses. I have had a couple of witnesses who were unsure of some of their facts, but through lengthy process of elimination, and discussion of details, the full data can be accurately obtained. If you care to bother. Some out there just don't have the time or patience. Why do they bother at all? How trustworthy is your source? Moore/Shandera are highly suspect due to their past shenanegans with the military (Doty, etc.). Anyone willing to sleep with the devil is not to be trusted! And neither is thier info. Never use second hand testimony!!!! Get it from the source! You can't trust other researchers distortions/interpretations and bad memory. Well documented and backed up research info may be acceptable if it is checked first for accuracy. If so and so said such and such to someone else and it finally got back to me, I wouldn't give it much credence. Also, How can you trust all these high ranking officials in the military to tell the truth when they have already sighned their lives away promising never to divulge their secrets? Those rare men with the courage to believe the public's right to know is higher than their filthy secrecy deserve to be respected. They have a higher moral standard. Military morality is an oxymoron. I am not just criticising Kent Jeffrey, here. There are many more doing the same things in different ways. In debunkery, everything unbelieved is considered rediculous, and eliminated outright on that basis. Nothing is rediculous to me, just proven, unproven, or waiting for enough facts to do one or the other. Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Skeptics Debunk UFO Stories From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:34:08 -0400 Subject: Skeptics Debunk UFO Stories --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Skeptics Debunk UFO Stories Date: 97-06-20 14:40:08 EDT From: AOL News By MARTHA MENDOZA ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - A group skeptical of UFOs says an Air Force report debunks stories of a crashed space ship in Roswell 50 years ago, concluding the aliens purportedly found were test dummies. ``The theory is that some of these reports of alien bodies might have been mistaken memories of some experiments that the Air Force conducted in New Mexico in the late 1950s, 10 years later, using dummies to test high altitude parachutes,'' Philip Klass, publisher of the Skeptics UFO Newsletter, said today. Air Force spokeswoman Gloria Cales at the Pentagon refused to comment on details of the report, but said it would be released Tuesday. A 1994 Air Force report explained alleged flying saucer debris as the remains of top-secret high-altitude balloons, but did not address reported sightings of hairless alien bodies. Klass said the military's dummies were hairless but human-like, ranging from about 5-foot-3 inches tall to 6-6. He said he has seen the draft of the follow-up report by Air Force historian Capt. James McAndrew. News of the report comes two weeks before the 50th anniversary celebration in Roswell, which is expected to attract thousands of visitors. The theory that an alien space ship crashed there has drawn widespread attention and figured, among other things, in the hit movie ``Independence Day.'' Charles Moore, a retired professor of physics at New Mexico Tech University in Socorro, said he read the draft report recently at an aeronautics conference in San Francisco, where he met McAndrew. Moore, who worked on a top secret 1947 project involving high-altitude balloons designed to detect Soviet nuclear tests, said he is inclined to believe the test dummy theory. Klass, who said he spoke to McAndrew about the report, said: ``He is inclined to believe that some stories told by some witnesses may be fundamentally honest attempts to recall what they saw, but they mistook dummies for extraterrestrials.'' McAndrew, reached in Virginia, would not comment on the report. Frank Kaufmann, 80, a civilian assigned to an intelligence unit at the then-Roswell Air Field in July 1947, says he knows what he saw - and they weren't dummies. He also said he has no doubt the event occurred in 1947. ``The military can say whatever they want,'' he said Thursday. ``I have no jurisdiction over them. There's not a doubt in my mind. I haven't gone senile yet.'' AP-NY-06-20-97 1435EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.<FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3> </I></PRE></HTML> To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Air Force: 'Aliens' Actually Dummies From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:35:50 -0400 Subject: Air Force: 'Aliens' Actually Dummies --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Air Force: 'Aliens' Actually Dummies Date: 97-06-20 15:19:49 EDT From: AOL News By MARTHA MENDOZA ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - A new Air Force report concludes that the ``alien bodies'' that were supposedly covered up along with the crash of a flying saucer in Roswell in 1947 were actually crash-test dummies used in parachute experiments, a UFO skeptic says. Air Force spokeswoman Gloria Cales said Friday that a follow-up report to the 1994 debunking of the so-called Roswell Incident will be released Tuesday, but she refused to discuss details. However, a publisher of the Skeptics UFO Newsletter said he has seen the report and it concludes that dummies used in high-altitude parachute tests in the late 1950s were the basis of reports of alien bodies. ``The theory is that some of these reports of alien bodies might have been mistaken memories of some experiments that the Air Force conducted in New Mexico in the late 1950s, 10 years later, using dummies to test high-altitude parachutes,'' said Philip Klass, publisher of the Skeptics UFO Newsletter in Washington. Klass said he has spoken at length with the report's author, Air Force historian Capt. James McAndrew. McAndrew refused to comment. UFO believers dismissed the report's suggestions. ``I'm sure I saw those aliens,'' said Frank Kaufmann, 80, a retired government intelligence agent. He and several military colleagues were sent to investigate a falling fireball and found a crashed spaceship and five dead aliens in July 1947, he said. ``One was thrown out, it was up against the arroyo, one was half-in, half-out, and the other three were inside,'' Kaufmann said. Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, said the explanation is an ``insult to humankind.'' People don't confuse decades, she said. Kaufmann said the bodies were hairless, with ash-colored skin, and were no taller than 5-foot-4. The Air Force report said the dummies ranged between 5-3 and 6-6. ``If you want to keep costs down, would you go to the trouble of having eyebrows and wigs put on the dummies?'' Klass said. The Air Force's 1994 report concluded that the alleged flying saucer debris was the remains of top-secret high-altitude balloons. News of the new report comes two weeks before the 50th anniversary celebration in Roswell, which is expected to attract thousands of visitors. The theory that an alien spaceship crashed there has drawn widespread attention and figured, among other things, in the hit movie ``Independence Day.'' AP-NY-06-20-97 1513EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Corso as UFO Spin Control master.. From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:19:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:36:49 -0400 Subject: Corso as UFO Spin Control master.. Well...I've been reading my pulp-fiction novel "The Day After Roswell," and what a great bit of entertainment it is (thanks Glen.) I won't bore everybody with the long litany of reasons why I think the gradual disclosure hypothesis has merit. Developments over the last 2 years including Glen's Jarod, numerous bizarre UFO 'explanations' including the most recent official recognition by the USAF that witness tales of alien bodies are in fact true. And many know how I feel about the great piece of performance art we witnessed last year with our buddy Ray's litle deformed girl psycho-butcher show, the so called 'alien' autopsy film. But how do we place the Corso book in all of this? As the balls out truth? Nah..we are way too cynical for that. As a peice of orchestrated, controlled, carefully prepared dissinformation? Oh, sure, it serves that purpose regardless. As some old geezer telling tall tales so he can make a few bucks before he dies shortly? Perhaps. What strikes me reading the book, which is nothing but a rehash of popular UFO mythology, is the gung-ho psycho-patriotic fervor it is laced with, so such a degree that it makes John Wayne look like a flaming wussy by comparison... So...I guess my point here is that if you buy the argument that there is a gradual acclimization processing going on vis a vis the whole UFO situation, one that it ultimately leading towards public acknowledgment/disclosure, then what Corso's book looks like to me is simply "spin control." It begins, continues, and ends with nothing but glowing praise for the great patriots who carried this whole project forward with a chest thumping oratory. Independence Day all over again. But, nah, it's probably just an old man spinning tales to make a quick buck. I should really be more cynical. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Gov. Fife Symington's 'Press Conference' From: "Jimmy Eugene Mock Jr and Janis K. Mock" <jimmock@gte.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:39:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:40:56 -0400 Subject: Gov. Fife Symington's 'Press Conference' I don't post to the List as a rule but as a observer and someone who believes in the rights of individuals to know the facts whatever they may be I was appalled by the stories coming out of Arizona regarding the conduct of Gov. Symington at his recent 'Press Conference'. I wanted to inquire if anyone has the "snail mail" information that would be needed in order to contact this 'man of the people' to inquire as to his intention and his message to those people of his state who actually believe there are questions to be answered. I appreciate any information that could be forwarded on this. Thank you, J. Mock at jimmock@gte.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Corso - 6 fingers reference.. From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:41:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:41:57 -0400 Subject: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. I found the reference in Corso's book regarding 6 fingered aliens. It's on page 78, about paragraph 3, in reference to tabloid reports of aliens it says: "And when reporters were actually given truthful descriptions of alien encounters, they either fell on the floor lauging or sold the story to the tabloids, who'd print a drawing of a large-headed, almond-eyed, six-fingered alien. Again, everybody laughed. But that's what these things really look like because I saw the one they trucked up to Wright Field." If you are going to make a myth I don't know how plus or minus a few fingers really matters that much anyway. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Corso's book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:53:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book Regarding... >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:53:42 -0500 >From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book Joel wrote: >>The development of the transistor was completed during 1947, by >>William Shockley, Walter Brattain and John Bardeen, working at Bell >>Telephone Laboratories. >This is true. But at that time this was the "neanderthal" fo >transistors and not even a practical or useful product. Yes, like much nascent technology, it was at first relatively primitive, but it was a foundation of the information technology "revolution". >>Briefly setting this in some perspective: [...] >>The code-breaking Colossus computer was designed and built in 1941 >>at the University of Manchester, England and Colossus Mark II >>followed in 1944. >So? What does this prove? I'm puzzled why you think it was intended to prove anything. As I said, it was briefly placing the development of the transistor in some perspective. >>Einstein is credited as the "Father" of the laser. In 1917, he >>theorised photons and stimulated emission and was awarded the Nobel >>prize for his work. >It's one thing to concieve of a thing, quite another to make a >practical working model. Of course. There are many ideas "ahead of their time", some of them have been visionary. I'm sure we can all think of suitable examples. >>Although scientists were aware that optical fibre could transmit >>light, the transmission interference seemed to be an insurmountable >>problem and it wasn't until 1970 that Corning Glass researchers, Drs >>Robert Maurer, Donald Keck, and Peter Schultz designed and produced >>the first optical fibre which met the specification for wide use in >>telecommunications. >What are you saying? They sent their fiberoptic cables 23 years back >in time? I'm equally puzzled why you would think I had suggested that! Again, this is simply noting how conceptions _did_ become working models. Perhaps you are reading too much into this. It's no more than a look at where the inspiration for these respective technologies originated and how they developed. >If someone said that early crude human technologies were advanced >quickly and suddenly by stealing (through reverse engineering) alien >technology, I would say that could be so. This was the relevant issue. Is any such evidence being offered by Corso, or, does it perhaps exist elsewhere. As it seems we have no tangible evidence, is there reason to believe that any terrestrial technological developments were _not_ borne of a natural genesis. >If remains found at Roswell are true fibreoptics and real functional >transistors and/or computer chips, etc. then it's obvious that WE did >not invent them and they would have to be alien in nature. Beyond dispute. There is however considerable evidence that what was found on the Foster ranch was balloon wreckage. I'm not sure what your further comments have to do with the points I mentioned to Greg. I take it they are just general observations. Kent's splendid article is another issue entirely. ;) James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Corso's book From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:54:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:43:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book Regarding... >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:36:58 -0400 Greg wrote: >One last sortie into the wacky, wonderful world of Philp Corso: Greg, It's a curious world, for sure! >As you know, if you read my lengthy screed about the aliens and the >transistor, Corso states quite clearly that Shockley (later to become >a racist pig, but that's something else again) was working on the >transistor before the Roswell crash. Yes, an established fact. >Nor does Corso anywhere deny that mere humans could all by themselves >theorize these technological breakthroughs, or start to implement >them without help from folks with just four fingers on their hands. >All Corso seems to be saying is that the alien debris helped move the >engineering faster. It's open to anyone to suggest that some advances can be attributed to reverse-engineered ET technology, similar claims having of course been applied to Area 51. The bottom line seems to be that Corso offers no substantive evidence to support his assertions and nothing really changes so far as these claims go. >As I've noted, his writing is monstrously unclear, so you can >sometimes read other implications into it. Appreciated. >Everything you cite about the transistor's history (and, in passages >I didn't quote, about the laser's) doesn't contradict Corso one bit. As you say, Corso implies that the historical record incorporates the influence of the alien technology introduced. In the absence of any affirmative evidence, it comes down to whether we choose to believe those claims. It all comes back to the question of what Mac Brazel's sticks, tinfoil, paper fin and tape with flowers truly related to. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent's worldview.... From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:55:29 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:46:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent's worldview.... > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:45:29 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent's worldview.... > Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:38 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent's worldview.... > >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net > >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:23:37 PDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Kent's worldview.... > >Wow. Talk about "a loud of assumptions." John makes Kent Jeffrey > >seem the soul of modesty by comparison. Of course we've heard > >this sort of thing before, this desire to occultize the UFO phenomenon > >at the expense of reason and evidence. Elsewhere I've written > >extensively on this desire to magnify a genuine mystery out of all > >proportion. > ><snip> > Jerry, > What a load of nonsense! > I keep hearing people say that the UFO phenomenon is only 50 or 100 years > old. In fact, there is good historical evidence (and not just from von > Daniken), that this phenomenon has been with us since the dawn of human > history, at least, if not well before. > To discount John's comments and deny the facts is to take a "head in the > sand" position. John knows what he is talking about. > Why does his proposition frighten you so? > >When we discuss the UFO phenomenon, it would be wise, I > >think, if we stuck to what we can reasonably demonstrate, not > >just to what we want to be true. That's should be as true for > >John as for Kent. > And for Jerry as well! > Bob I have no idea what Bob means -- and I doubt that he does, either -- by his strange assertion that John's views "frighten" me. A cheap rhetorical trick, I think, and since you get what you pay for, not a very effective one. All Bob does is repeat the sort of sweeping statement I was criticizing when John made it. I am not impressed. Go read Bullard's "Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" -- in other words, look at the evidence and test it against your beliefs. I'll take the evidence against your -- or my -- favored beliefs any time. We aren't going to get anywhere otherwise. Jerry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Hal Puthoff Endorses Corso! From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jun 97 21:39:12 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:05:07 -0400 Subject: Hal Puthoff Endorses Corso! Hi Errol, I thought you might be interested that Corso has received an open endorsement which is probably better than Strom's. <G> See the Vortex-l post below. (Reformatted for UpDates) Terry ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Puthoff@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:14:54 -0400 (EDT) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Corso has a fine reputation, having been a star witness before congressional committees on both the Korean POW issue, and on the loss of "ferret flights" of ELINT planes during the Cold War (see Time, U.S. News and World Report, etc., plus books, from the early '90's). If his integrity could have been successfully challenged, these are the issues for which many would have liked to have seen his credibility tarnished, but it was not. Hal Puthoff Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76016.2701 | puthoff |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 PETITIONERS UNITE! - Rename and Preserve the From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:12:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:14:18 -0400 Subject: PETITIONERS UNITE! - Rename and Preserve the Subject:PETITIONERS UNITE! - Rename and Preserve the Objective of The Roswell Declaration Petition Date: Wed, 20 Jun 1997 From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Note: This version of the essay has my optional feedback address PETITIONERS UNITE ! Amidst all the brouhaha about the release of recent research into the events at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 ONE significant, major, fundamental point has been lost - the OBJECTIVE of the so called "Roswell Petition." Ask yourself the following two questions: 1. What is that objective? Answer: To obtain an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. 2. What does it actually have to do with resolving the nature of the events that took place in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947? Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!! Now let us examine in detail what the objective was: [the text below is take verbatim from the "Roswell Declaration"] - start of quotation - History has shown that unsubstantiated official assurances or denials by government are often meaningless. Nevertheless, there is a logical and straightforward way to ensure that the truth about Roswell will emerge: an Executive Order declassifying any information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. Because this is a unique issue of universal concern, such an action would be appropriate and warranted. To provide positive assurance for all potential witnesses, it would need to be clearly stated and written into law. Such a measure is essentially what presidential candidate Jimmy Carter promised and then failed to deliver to the American people eighteen years ago in 1976. If, as is officially claimed, no information on Roswell, UFOs, or extraterrestrial intelligence is being withheld, an Executive Order declassifying it would be a mere formality, as there would be nothing to disclose. The Order would, however, have the positive effect of setting the record straight once and for all. Years of controversy and suspicion would be ended, both in the eyes of the United States' own citizens and in the eyes of the world. If, on the other hand, the Roswell witnesses are telling the truth and information on extraterrestrial intelligence does exist, it is not something to which a privileged few in the United States Government should have exclusive rights. It is knowledge of profound importance to which all people throughout the world should have an inalienable right. Its release would unquestionably be universally acknowledged as an historic act of honesty and goodwill. I support the request, as outlined above, for an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. Whether such information exists or whether it does not, I feel that the people of the world have a right to know the truth about this issue and that it is time to put an end to the controversy surrounding it. - end of quotation - THE OBJECTIVE IS: Over 20,000 people have signed the document to obtain "an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence." The significance of objective is this; the intelligence community was created as a tool of the executive branch of government and is answerable only to the executive branch of government - to the Chief Executive, our President and not any other branch of government. (if you don't understand this statement look up the relevant law and Supreme Court decisions, the website of the Center for the Study of Intelligence also has a scholarly review of the law and decisions which establish this fact). Only through an Executive Order can information be released or members of governmental agencies be give witness to their knowledge of this information without violating security oaths. Petitioners awake! All other issues, research, etc. which distract from this objective are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Roswell, New Mexico exists or doesn't exist for without obtaining this tool, the Executive Order, declassifying information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence there is little likelihood of having this question answered now or in the near future. THEREFORE: I propose that the name of the petition be changed to the: "Sagan Petition" I propose this so as to honor the memory of the scientist who dedicated his scientific career to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. This would remove the petition from the the controversy now associated with the Roswell events. The renaming would garner new positive publicity for the petition and gather perhaps thousand of new supporters and signers. It would allow all parties involved to amicably refocus their energy on the true objective of the petition and allow all to present it to the President, without controversy, and in good faith. Yours truly, Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Please reproduce this essay without change and distribute it throughout the internet and any other medium possible. 3) Send your request via email to the International Roswell Intitiative to change the name of the petition from the "Roswell Petition" to the "Sagan Petition". Their email address is: roswelldec@aol.com 4) Also contact the sponsoring individual and organizations of the International Roswell Initiative with the same request: MUFON; 103 Oldtowne Road; Seguin, TX 78155.U.S.A. CUFOS; 2457W. Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659,U.S.A. FUFOR; Post Office Box 277, Mt.Rainier, Maryland 20712,U.S.A. Kent Jeffrey, 37 Porteous Ave., Fairfax, CA 94930,U.S.A. Joachim Koch, Stadtrandstr. 550 g, 13589 Berlin, Germany Below is a suggested form to email to the organizers of the International Roswell Initiative. If you don't mind please cc: me (Gary Alevy) when you send out your email to the International Rowell Initiative so I can keep an independent tally of the number of requests for renaming sent to them. send the cc to: galevy@pipeline.com As this is a REAL request for modification of the name of the petition, run over the Internet, we need to have stringent rules for signing. Fill in the Name and Address and Email so that the petition organizers will take this seriously. For the most impact, please fill out the form completely. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Request to the organizers of The International Roswell Initiative: I support the request for renaming the Roswell Petition to the Sagan Petition so as to further the goal of obtaining an Executive Order declassifying any U.S. Government information regarding the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. I feel that my objective as a signer of the document originally called the Roswell Petition has been overshrouded by the politicization and controversy associated with the research regarding events in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. However, as any student of history is aware, the issues of the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence do not hinge on the events in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Therefore all efforts and energy must be directed to obtaining this tool, the Executive Order so that further investigation may proceed. First Name: Last Name: Street: City: State/Prov: Postal Code: Country: Email Address:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 20 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:42:05 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:55:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >> Date: 18 Jun 97 16:37:53 EDT >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >> >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:19:40 -0500 >> >From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> >> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >Subject: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >> >I would like to make a comment on this line of argument from Kent. Some >> >folks have been studying this whole UFO thang for a really long time. >> >Kent sets up an interesting straw man argument here saying that "If this >> >UFO crash were an extraterrestrial vehical operating in time and space >> >as we know it, corresponding to all of the laws of physics as we >> >understand them, and the product of a technological society of >> >intelligent creatures who independently evolved from human beings, a >> >vehicle which by definition must have traveled light years subject to >> >relativistic physics then................................" >> >What a load of assumptions. >> John, >> At last the voice of reason! >I very much agree with these assessments of Kent's assumptions. It's an >oxymoron to imply that aliens sufficiently evolved to have traveled from >there to here, and who could be tens of thousands of years farther along >in their civilization than we are, would be constrained by the laws of >physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand >those laws! > Jim Deardorff Dear Jim et al, Then it's an equal oxymoron to assume that their superior, superduper spaceship would have come so completely apart after an encounter with a terrestrial thunderstorm. After all, if you're not "constrained by the laws of physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand [them]," then why bother crashing in the first place? Eh? Or did they run head-on into some some 21st century laws of phsysics and time we just don't know about yet? Just curious. Search for other documents from or mentioning: dstacy | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Housekeeping - Rules & Roswell Recreative Break From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:07:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:07:00 -0400 Subject: Housekeeping - Rules & Roswell Recreative Break There are still several subscribers ignoring the posting rules. You may have noticed that traffic has increased in the last few weeks. I have even less time to spend returning mail that doesn't meet the posting criteria. If your message doesn't make the List you can assume one or more of the following: o your message was incorrectly laid-out o your message was inflamatory o you quoted a complete message to add one or two lines that didn't contribute much other than "Yeah! Me too!" o your message contained repeat information ___________________________________________ Please remember that ss of midnight June 28 through midnight July 13th UFO UpDates will be off-line. We'll be in Roswell.... see you there? Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Corso Interview On NBC's Dateline Tuesday From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:11:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:09:49 -0400 Subject: Corso Interview On NBC's Dateline Tuesday Robert Herloski writes: >From: Robert Herloski <herloski@scan.mc.xerox.com> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" ><updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Dateline NBC Special on Roswell Tuesday June >24 >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:04:41 PDT >See: >http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/dateline/onairthisweek.asp >-- Bob Bob didn't tell that the broadcast will feature an interview with Corso. Here is the full text from the page (DateLine On Air This Week): Dateline NBC airs Sunday 7-8 p.m. ET, Monday 10-11p.m. ET, Tuesday 10-11 p.m. ET, and Friday 9-10 p.m. ----------- ROSWELL Tuesday, June 24 He was a member of General McArthurs' staff during the Korean War, a military advisor to President Eisenhower and a commander of a nuclear missile battalion in Germany -- and he claims to have seen aliens. With the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident only weeks away, "Dateline NBC" correspondent John Hockenberry revisits the site and discusses the case with the only alleged eyewitness to the existence of alien bodies on earth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Weaver Report Due Out Tuesday From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:41:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:14:02 -0400 Subject: Weaver Report Due Out Tuesday Just found out that the 'dummy' report should be out Tuesday. So if you need a good laugh! BTW, it was Kathleen Coke (sic!) who made the Weaver interview for CNN's Washington Bureau. You'll find the publishing date of his book in the 'Quick News' section of CNN's Site: http://www.cnn.com/QUICKNEWS/index.html Quote: Top of the news as of Fri Jun 20 19:23:20 1997 =20 ............................ Science and Technology .............................. Space aliens were actually dummies? The Air Force will soon release a report that claims space alien "bodies" found next to a crashed space ship in Roswell, New Mexico, 50 years ago were actually Air Force test dummies, a group skeptical of UFOs said Friday. Philip Klass, publisher of the Skeptics UFO Newsletter, said the Air Force report explains that hairless aliens some Roswell residents said they saw in early July 1947 were really dummies used in later parachuting experiments. The report is due out Tuesday.=20 ............... =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc.=20 All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:18:43 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:12:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:41:01 -0500 >From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. >I found the reference in Corso's book regarding 6 fingered aliens. It's >on page 78, about paragraph 3, in reference to tabloid reports of aliens >it says: >"And when reporters were actually given truthful descriptions of alien >encounters, they either fell on the floor lauging or sold the story to >the tabloids, who'd print a drawing of a large-headed, almond-eyed, >six-fingered alien. Again, everybody laughed. But that's what these >things really look like because I saw the one they trucked up to Wright >Field." >If you are going to make a myth I don't know how plus or minus a few >fingers really matters that much anyway. >John The first reference to finger numbers comes on page 32, where Corso speaks of "bizarre-looking four-fingered hands." However, the same paragraph is heavily excerpted on the first page of the promotional material Pocket Books sent out with review copies. There the same passage reads "bizarre-looking six fingered hands." I suspect that Corso and his co-author referred to six fingers in their first draft because the so-called "autopsy" film depicting an alien with six fingers was the best available "evidence" they had at the the time, and that they changed it back to four before the book was typeset, cognizant of which way the wind was blowing on this one. That would seem to be confirmed by the later reference (p. 78) to six fingers, as well. Apparently, they simply overlooked it when they were retrograding six fingers to four earlier. But then I'm a cynic. Anyone who wants to think this book is the greatest thing since sliced white bread (which, for all I know, may be a byproduct of alien technology, too--hey, they had to eat *something* in space, didn't they?) is perfectly welcome to. The issue of the timeline regarding the development of the laser and integrated circuits is beside the point. More relevant is Corso's claim that all this stuff just sat around in a file cabinet in the Pentagon office of a general now conveniently dead, casually gathering dust, until Corso miraculously appeared on the scene. The greatest event in world history, the greatest story in the world, resulting in the creation of a gigantic government-within-a-government (Corso's words), a massive cover up and the mobilization of some of the best minds in science--and it all comes to virtually naught until mastermind Corso turns up on the scene? How can you people take this stuff seriously? How could you believe it for a minute, let alone for the two, three, four or five it takes to compose and post an email? Get a grip on yourselves. Don't you recognize a cow pattie when you step in it, fer Gawd's sakes? Ed, you don't have to answer, as I know you're up there in the "mountians," or wherever, girding yourself for UFO armageddon or Congressional jeerings, whichever come first. The rest of you -- those who take seriously Corso's notion that "hostile" ufonauts would hang peacefully and desultorily around for the better part of 50 years before attacking while Corso crafted Star Wars, thereby thwarting their evil plans -- need to consider a long, solitary hike in the woods to collect your own senses as well. Failing that, maybe a short pier is in order. As long as you take this kind of blatant nonsense even remotely seriously, none of us are going to get anywhere. As long as you accept bad reasoning, bad spy novel dialogue, and reconstructed dialogue at that, as real, without demanding proof of same--you do vaguely remember what proof is, don't you? -- then you deserve the kind of ufology you've got, which is largely one of your own creation and imagination, and little else. And you don't have to march on Congress to get it. All you need to do is to *demand* proof from the very same so-called "ufologists" who have got you to this ridiculous impasse in the first place. You shouldn't have to *believe* Corso or not, because it should never have been a question of belief in the first place, but of simple proof. Can you *prove* what you're saying, Mr. Corso? If not, then get back to me when you can and maybe we'll do lunch. Clearly, Corso can't, or he would have proven it to begin with. You should ask the same thing of anyone who purports to have a film of an alien autopsy. Hey, interesting if true, but where's your proof? And evidence of proof shouldn't be the *last* demand you make, but the very first. No proof, no belief, simple as that. Interest and curiousity, yes. Belief on which I'll base my future behavior, no. Think of it as the most basic contract between author (and promoter) and reader. If the author or promoter violates the contract, then you have every right to withhold your support and belief. These aren't rocket science equations, but the fundamentals of common sense. What is so wrong with demanding simple proof? And John, when I say "you" above, I obviously don't mean you personally.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:45 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' > Ok. Maybe I'm not unbiased about KJ. I freely admit to being royally pissed > off with him over that crap he put in the MUFON Journal about the AA film. > As > you know, I've shown with genuine documents that the statements from his > cameramen witnesses are pure nonsense. He came into the film debate with > very strong preconceptions, as Don Ecker has pointed out, that the film > simply > could not possibly be real because "an alien wouldn't look like that". Ok, you say you have documents. I've seen you show them at some conferences, I think. I've heard lots of talk about them. I guess this would the Kodak Manuals? What testimony do you have from WWII Cameramen that contradicts Longo and McGovern? Not anonymous testimony but testimony that we can compare. Have you spoken with Longo and McGovern and confronted them with these differences? What about Bill Gibson? You know Bob, Kent didn't interview 50 cameraman and pick the best three, he picked the three who had the experience and knowledge to make the statements that they did. I would be genuinely interested in seeing your conclusive proof. I think this list would too. McGovern has been on a lot of TV programs saying all autopsies were filmed in color. Well, we pretty much should realize that this is not true. Sweeping generalizations are usually just that. Yet, McGovern gets hammered for that. I think there was another problem with a quote those three guys used -- something about infinity or something -- I don't remember now, but has anyone confronted these guys about that? Has anyone spoken to them? Has anyone seen the reference that that quote came from? > I realize that the Roswell Declaration is not just about Roswell, and > would support changing the name now, while there is still time. I don't see the need to change the name. Kind of in memory of Roswell. > I have read the Declaration, and was an early signer, and still support > what it says and attempts to do 100%. But I no longer trust KJ to be > a good faith delivery boy. He would be like an athiest presiding at > Mass. If he were presiding at a mass, that is probably what he would be. <just guessing> > Kent is a debunker. Actions and words speak for themselves. He tried to > debunk the AA film without doing any real study, and without bothering > to learn the basic facts. Now it looks like he is doing the same with > Roswell, and with equally poor reasoning and witness. He did debunk the autopsy film. He didn't prove it was a hoax, but he set up a pretty good foundation. I have yet to see that "conclusive proof." > Like many others, I am suspicious of him and his motives, and particularly > suspicious of his timing. Be suspicious if you like, but don't accuse a man, that you have never met or corresponded with, of being an agent of disinformation. > But perhaps he is not a disinformation agent. He may just be seriously > inflexible mentally, and up against things which are far out of his > league. If this is the case, he owes it to all of us to just quietly > turn over the signed Declarations to someone who still has faith and > quietly withdraw from the field. Why do I suspect that this will not > happen? Hey, FWIW, I have about 5000 of the Declarations right here next to my computer. So maybe there's hope. <g> > Rebecca, you can be so abrasive at times, and really get under my skin! > But I still love you anyway! That's nice Bob. We all love you too. Just tell who and where the cameraman is? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: BWW Media Alert 960720 [Supp.] From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:54:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:19:19 -0400 Subject: Re: BWW Media Alert 960720 [Supp.] Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) June 20, 1997 Special update for Saturday night, so I can cover EDGE OF REALITY. I'll be on it, as detailed below. I'm also very excited because I will be doing an hour on critical thinking and the paranormal (including UFOs) on SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO Wednesday night at 7:00 PM Pacific. I'll send out another notice on that one. Btw, I didn't properly update the list before I sent this week's Media Alert. If you did not get it, and would still like to do so, please let me know. Please vote in the UFO Poll if you haven't (and would like to do so). I expect many more responses after the radio publicity this week. Here is the form one more time: I have to formalize a format since a number of people have named a couple of things and then sort of left it up to me to pick, which doesn't work. I'll let you "split" your single vote between up to four events. If you pick two as "most significant", then each one will get one half of a vote. You may also name up to ten "honorable mentions". I'll put these into a special, separate category. They'll get mentioned, but won't be counted in the tally. Here's a "form" to help structure it: _____________________________________ The most significant UFO event of the past fifty years is ______________________ (you get one vote here, but you may split it up to four ways) My honorable mentions (up to ten) are __________________ ______________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ SATURDAY, THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, 50th Anniversary of UFOs; 5:15 PM, Bufo's UFO Poll; 5:30 PM, Curt Sutherly, author of STRANGE ENCOUNTERS*, one of the better, old-fashioned fortean books of late; 6:00 PM, Ghosts of the Civil War and Southern States, with Frank Spaeth, of FATE MAGAZINE; 6:30 PM, Crystal Power with Catherine Bowman; 7:00 PM, Dr. Bruce Goldberg, who sounds like he's doing stand-up, on "preincarnation", or future life progression. He offers a guarantee...if what he says is going to happen to you doesn't (let's say, a hundred years from now), you get your money back :) .7:30 PM, animal souls with Gary Kowalski. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Phoenix lights Quicktime Movie... From: "Boyle, Alan" <alan.boyle@MSNBC.COM> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:52:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:21:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix lights Quicktime Movie... >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:09:42 -0500 >From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Phoenix lights >A 1.3 meg quicktime movie of the Phoenix lights can be found at: > http://cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/phoenix.lights.24.1.3.mov >Tim Ahem, you'll find a slightly less chubby 202kb AVI at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/video/0619UFO.avi Respectfully submitted, Alan Boyle, MSNBC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:41:56 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:23:24 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:28:16 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC News-Peter Jennings >>Subject: ABC News-Peter Jennings >>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 21:37:40 -0400 >>From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> >>To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Greetings List! >> On June 18th, 1997, (Wednesday), in the last part of ABC News 6:30 PM >>edition, there was a small bit about Roswell. There was also a small >>segment about Phoenix. A video was shown of some large lights over the >>city. Several witnesses were interviewed claiming they saw a large >>triangular shaped craft fly over their house. Other researchers were >>interviews as well, albiet briefly to fit into the sound bite/byte :-) . >> The segment ended with Peter Jennings (who I respect) smirking. >> I was just curious how the American's on the List view their news >>media when such a vitally important subject is treated with such >>(seeming) short shrift by the major networks. >> Surely there must be some hope? >>Regards, >>Paul. >IMHO (as a former radio news reporter): >Americans probably don't have a unified view of the media, but the reaction >of ABC news is no surprise. To be quite honest, there is very little >actual "investigative reporting" going on, unless it happens to attract an >audiance. This is usually on a local level, and involves known issues that >are easily defined. >Keep in mind that for most of the media, this is an old story that has been >given new life as a result of the involvement of a Councilwoman and now the >Governor. The story is not that there were sightings, but that a >Councilwoman is up in arms about it. The reports have gone back to explain >what the issue is all about, but the focus remains on what is happening >now, rather than what happened then. ------- snip ------ What a wonderful type of journalism, where you don't report the event, but that somebody asks 'Hey, does anybody know what happened?' ... BTW, the Phoenix holo projection hypotheses makes sense to me. Alf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 DISPATCH #57 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:26:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:40:41 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #57 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #57 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 6/21/97 Quote of the Week "The fewer people you speak to, the more you can say. The less they pay you, the freer you are." -- Satirist, media critic and voice of "The Simpsons" Mr. Burns (and others) on the economics and of working for broadcast news organizations. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Draining Our Precious Swamply Fluids" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Mr. Coconut" demands to know why the Feds are draining our lands of their precious swampy moisture. Enjoy! "The feds have nothing better to do. they will ruin the country by destroying all phantoms, ghosts ,gouls,they are just guys in black trying to make the fantasy they see on television become a reality. A waste of taxpayers money.they can spend money better by catching criminals, or developing planns to improve our deteriating transport system, or devise a federal plan to drain and irrigate our lands. build canals to drain and divert heavy rainfall to prevent flooding. Also create countless jobs by dredging our silted rivers etc." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "UFO All-Stars" to Appear on ParaScope During our special cybercast July 3 - 5 from the Roswell UFO Festival, ParaScope is pleased to announce that a stellar array of UFO experts, personalities and commentators will be stopping by the Grassy Knoll on AOL to chat with the world. Though our line-up is subject to change, current plans call for us to play host to Robert O. Dean, Michael Lindemann, Dr. John Mack, Rod Skenandore, Bud Hopkins, Stanton Friedman, Donald Schmitt and Linda Moulton Howe throughout the festival. Watch for details on the guests, the cybercast and everything else Roswell related as we approach the big event. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A&E Network Broadcasts "Conspiracies" June 29 We've long believed in a rather silly (but absolutely true) conspiracy theory here at ParaScope headquarters. Quite simply, we're convinced that "they" have implanted mind-reading, idea-sucking, thought-transmitting implants in our brains (or probably our nasal cavities, close to the brain but outside the gray matter). Clearly, the implants have transmitted our master plan to the Arts & Entertainment cable network, which will be broadcasting "Conspiracies" next week. Thus, our chance at a 24-hour ParaScope cable channel seem to be usurped by A&E. The two-hour documentary will cover a wide range of conspiracies, and features among its talking head "experts" Jonathan Vankin, author of "The 60 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time," as well as ParaScope publisher Ruffin Prevost. Though we haven't seen the show yet (look for a sneak peek review next week), we encourage you to watch, if for no other reason than to convince A&E that there is interest among viewers for more shows like this. "Conspiracies" airs on the A&E cable network Sunday, June 29 at 9pm on the east coast, 9pm on the west coast. Central and Mountain viewers, sadly, will have to consult their local listings. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Featured Chat: Music, Mind Control and the Devil Rock music is a favorite target of social critics and moralizing crusaders seeking to protect America's collective virtue. From the swiveling hips of Elvis to the bat-head-biting antics of Ozzy, rock and roll strikes fear and dread into the hearts of many. Does Satan own a piece of the record industry? Maybe not, but what about "payola," the conspiracy in rocks early days to buy radio airplay? And did you know that many artists cut special censored versions of their records for retail giants like Wal-Mart? Join the chat gang in the Grassy Knoll to discuss music, mayhem and mirth Sunday from 7-9pm ET. Also, join us in the Crop Circle, ParaScope's web-based chat room every Saturday night at 9pm ET for great times and good conversation. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Watch for the greatest round-up of Roswell-related stories on the web as we gather classic Roswell stories from our archives and add plenty of new Roswell material as we approach the big Roswell UFO Festival. In the meantime, we'll continue bringing you plenty of great other stories on both our AOL and web sites. Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, June 23: The CSETI/FUFOR Controversy For several months, ParaScope has been following the efforts of Dr. Steven Greer's group, CSETI, to force the government to reveal whatever it knows about the UFO phenomenon, especially information pertaining to the Roswell Incident. Recently, however, the Fund for UFO Research has been reporting that Dr. Greer has made improper claims and use of the UFO Research Coalition's book "Best Available Evidence" -- better known to ParaScope's readers as the "Rockefeller UFO Report." ParaScope presents a roundup of the controversy, including FUFOR's allegations against Greer, and Greer's response to the charges. --------------------------- Tuesday, June 24: Arnold Sighting Really a Meteor Shower? On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold reported seeing a stream of unidentified flying objects which seemed to be metal craft, hence launching the modern UFO era. But new research shows that he may have seen meteors, not flying saucers. Phil Klass examines Arnold's historic sighting as a possible meteor/fireball incident, revealing some interesting facts. --------------------------- Wednesday, June 25: My Visit With James Earl Ray/James Earl Ray Update "James Earl Ray , inmate # 65477, slowly rises from his state-issued hospital wheelchair to shake my extended hand, almost as soon as I entered the make-shift visiting room..." For months, ParaScope has been closely following the new ballistics tests on the rifle which prosecutors say was used to assassinate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The question of James Earl Ray's guilt has been widely debated, but what does Ray himself think of all this? In this special report, guest writer Mike Gabriel shares a recent visit with the ailing Ray and offers a first-hand look at the man who prosecutors claim put a fatal bullet in one of America's greatest civil rights leaders. Also, as developments in the Ray case and ballistics tests develop, we'll be presenting detailed analysis of this breaking story. --------------------------- Thursday, June 26: Fortean Slips! Enigma editor D. Trull's patented weirdness-gathering apparatus, the Slipatron 5000, overheated this week due to the sheer magnitude of the incoming Fortean Freakiness. Out of concern for public safety, only the names of next week's Fortean Slips have been released: Drac Helicopters Over Transylvania, Witches Protection Program, Prayer for Lost Information and Teenage Mutant Singing Chicken. As always, paranormal discretion is advised. --------------------------- Friday, June 27: THE ROSWELL INCIDENT Fifty years ago, SOMETHING crashed on Mac Brazel's ranch near Roswell, New Mexico. Exactly what it was -- a simple weather balloon, a secret military balloon project, or an alien spacecraft -- is a matter that has been hotly debated ever since. ParaScope will be getting warmed up for the Roswell crash's 50th anniversary with a roundup of articles examining various aspects of the incident. --Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg issue their Berlin Memorandum, the follow-up to the International Roswell Initiative's Roswell Declaration, intended to serve as a rallying point for uncovering the truth about the incident. --Karl Pflock flames Stanton Friedman and outlines the research method which led him to the conclusion that Project Mogul was, indeed, at the heart of the Roswell Incident. --Author John Shirley brings ParaScope an original special report on why some Roswell investigators still believe an alien craft crashed in the desert, in spite of mounting Project Mogul evidence. --Dossier editor Jon Elliston and Nebula editor Paul B. Thompson present a comprehensive roundup of Roswell-related documents, reports and analyses. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: More Australian Sghtings From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:28:52 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:43:55 -0400 Subject: Re: More Australian Sghtings IPP National UFO Hotline Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/index.htm =20 =A9 June 20, 1997 The National UFO Hotline Melbourne office.=20 Wishes to advise that the Hotline has received reports from callers stating that they have observed a "gold orange tube shaped=20 illumination" crossing the sky at dusk towards the west, between 5.15 - 5.35PM nightly. The UFO HOTLINE a week ago received simular reports and logged these sightings as likely to be light refraction from Venus, however it now appears that it is unlikely due to the fact that witness's are saying that this illumination was moving. A Short brief on simular events around Australia this month. Monday 2nd June 1997 @ 7.30 -8.00pm Victoria Melbourne Taylor Lakes. Respondents report sighting a cloud like illumination stopping and then moving towards the western sky, followed by 6 orange illuminations. Tuesday 3rd June 1997 Victoria Melbourne Box Hill @ 5.15 and Burwood @ 5.30PM. Respondents report sighting a "fluoro white crescent or banana shaped illumination "in the western sky. Thursday 5th June 1997 @ 5.00-5.05- 5.15 Victoria Melbourne to Keilor Downs. Respondents report sighting a "long white, upside down banana shaped illumination "moving towards the north west sky. Wednesday 11th June 1997 @ 9.00pm Tasmania, Lindissar. Respondent reports sighting a "bright orange/yellow tubed or line shaped object" in the SSW sky. Thursday 12th June 1997 @ 6.55pm Queensland, Sunshine Coast, Picnic Point. Respondents report sighting "lime green line with a golden football shaped illumination half way up the line". Thursday 12th June 1997 @ 8.00pm Victoria Rye. Respondents report sighting a" foggy white football shaped illumination with line of light either side of the object. Friday 13th June 1997 @ 7.30pm Victoria Lara Respondents report sighting a stationery tube shaped illumination to the NW sky of Lara. Monday 16th June @ 11.20pm Queensland Holland Park. Respondents report sighting a " large bright white line shaped=20 illumination in the SE sky". The illumination was as long as a little finger at arms length. Wednesday 18th June 1997 @ 5.10pm ACT Canberra Respondents report sighting "3-4 bright yellow lights in the western sky, 2 of the illuminations were pencil shaped". Thursday 19th June 1997 @ 9.15 pm NSW Sydney Terry Hills. Respondents report sighting a dark oval shaped object with square windows and red line=20 coming out or it. Heading NW. 18-20th June Reports of a "line or a tube shaped illumination crossing the sky". Melbourne at 5.15 -5.35".=20 Adelaide @ 6.15 Canberra @ 5.10 Sydney @ 9.00 =20 Regards=20 Ross Dowe rossdowe@netlink.net.au http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/picpg.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: More UFOs in Australia From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:29:28 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:44:42 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFOs in Australia IPP National UFO Hotline Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/index.htm =A9 June 20, 1997 The National UFO Hotline Melbourne office.=20 Wish's to advise that the Hotline has received reports from callers stating that they have observed a "gold orange tube shaped=20 illumination" crossing the sky at dusk towards the west, between 5.15 - 5.35PM nightly. The UFO HOTLINE a week ago received simular reports and logged these sightings as likely to be light refraction from Venus, however it now appears that it is unlikely due to the fact that witness's are saying that this illumination was moving. A Short brief on simular events around Australia this month. Monday 2nd June 1997 @ 7.30 -8.00pm Victoria Melbourne Taylor Lakes. Respondents report sighting a cloud like illumination stopping and then moving towards the western sky, followed by 6 orange illuminations. Tuesday 3rd June 1997 Victoria Melbourne Box Hill @ 5.15 and Burwood @ 5.30PM. Respondents report sighting a "fluoro white crescent or banana shaped illumination "in the western sky. Thursday 5th June 1997 @ 5.00-5.05- 5.15 Victoria Melbourne to Keilor Downs. Respondents report sighting a "long white, upside down banana shaped illumination "moving towards the north west sky. Wednesday 11th June 1997 @ 9.00pm Tasmania, Lindissar. Respondent reports sighting a "bright orange/yellow tubed or line shaped object" in the SSW sky. Thursday 12th June 1997 @ 6.55pm Queensland, Sunshine Coast, Picnic Point. Respondents report sighting "lime green line with a golden football shaped illumination half way up the line". Thursday 12th June 1997 @ 8.00pm Victoria Rye. Respondents report sighting a" foggy white football shaped illumination with line of light either side of the object. Friday 13th June 1997 @ 7.30pm Victoria Lara Respondents report sighting a stationery tube shaped illumination to the NW sky of Lara. Monday 16th June @ 11.20pm Queensland Holland Park. Respondents report sighting a " large bright white line shaped=20 illumination in the SE sky". The illumination was as long as a little finger at arms length. Wednesday 18th June 1997 @ 5.10pm ACT Canberra Respondents report sighting "3-4 bright yellow lights in the western sky, 2 of the illuminations were pencil shaped". Thursday 19th June 1997 @ 9.15 pm NSW Sydney Terry Hills. Respondents report sighting a dark oval shaped object with square windows and red line=20 coming out or it. Heading NW. 18-20th June Reports of a "line or a tube shaped illumination crossing the sky". Melbourne at 5.15 -5.35".=20 Adelaide @ 6.15 Canberra @ 5.10 Sydney @ 9.00 =20 Regards=20 Ross Dowe rossdowe@netlink.net.au http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/picpg.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:48:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > Date: 20 Jun 97 09:05:40 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > > >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > > >I very much agree with these assessments of Kent's assumptions. It's an > >oxymoron to imply that aliens sufficiently evolved to have traveled from > >there to here, and who could be tens of thousands of years farther along > >in their civilization than we are, would be constrained by the laws of > >physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand > >those laws! > Jim, > > An important point learned from history is that science, and before it > theology, has always had a COMPLETE explanation for how the universe works. > This is necessary for the mental stability of the scientist/theologian. > They allow for small modifications as new information is obtained or > new revelations granted by gods or via prophets, but the overall > schematic of "how things are" is etched in stone. > > Periodically, major new information emerges and a forced change in this > world view takes place, but always against great resistance, and never > easily. Hi Bob, You're right on -- important change always meets with great resistance. > We stand today on the edge of one of those changes, which will produce an > integration of science and theology. A new science of the soul. We > will understand and use technology which will thrust into the "occult". I agree, but a good fraction of those on this list who abhor the "occult" will be among those who fight it tooth and nail. > ... People on both sides of this chasm, the scientists and the > theologians, will resist this merger, but the chasm is an artificial one > created by western culture, and it grows narrower and narrower. > For people with the courage to face this change, the future is exciting > indeed. For the mechanistic minds and the theocratic minds, it is > terrifying. But neither can stop it. > > I highly recommend Joe Lewels' new book _The God Hypothesis_ as an > introduction to what is going on. It's a good book, alright. I had it read even before the Ozarks Conference. > Another piece of required reading is > Amit Goswami's _The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates > Reality_. > Reality ain't what it used to be!! Minor correction -- reality stays the same, our views of it change if we evolve. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 The Castle that disappeared / Hoagland. From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:04:12 +0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:51:26 -0400 Subject: The Castle that disappeared / Hoagland. THE CASTLE THAT DISAPPEARED. By Anders Persson / WUFOC. Taken from the 4th issue of <A HREF="http://www.wufoc.com/issue_ 4/hoagl_uk.html">Narkontakt</A>. According to an article about Richard Hoagland in the last issue of this e-magazine, we promised to give some analysis of pictures we ordered from NASA. The pictures was two of Hoaglands hard evidence to support his thesis on constructed buildings on our Moon! During more than a decade Richard Hoagland has been involved in a debate around whether or not there is monuments on our neighbour-planet Mars. Even if Hoagland only is one of, in some cases, high ranked people who has been involved in this subject, it's still Hoagland we think about when we read or hear something regarding monuments on Mars. The reason for this is that Hoagland has, over a couple of years, been seen regular in different types of media. Hoagland is also the person who has "stretched" the subject more than no one else had dared when he claimed different types of connections. It could be mathematical connections where he means that there is several mathematical constants in the geometrical placing of the different objects, and it could also be a connection with different ancient buildings here on earth. To many people this type of claims are disturbing enough and clearly unnecessary because the subject already is highly loaded according to histories of green Martians during a whole century. Therefore it was with great hesitation that I two years ago received the message that Hoagland now thinks that it is monuments even on our own Moon! One of the first things that came to mind when I heard of this, was who all this people who had traveled to the moon during the Apollo missions had missed all these things!? Conspiracy? Well... Maybe. But first let us look at the evidence, I thought. And that's what I have done. The evidence is, in principle, based on pictures taken from ground or from satellites in orbit around the Moon. In general the anomalies appear near, or falls on the limit of the solution of the picture. And it must be said. It is very different to those pictures we have seen on the surface of Mars where the picture, in general, is proportionately clear with, also in most cases, clearly geometrical shapes. And there is often more than one picture of the each anomalous object to make ones judgement from. One of the main pictures who are going to support the thesis of monuments on the moon is frame 4822. The picture shows a flat area with a few craters and a part of a mountain in the lower left section of the picture. The sun is shining from the right as we can see by how the shadow falls. One of the disturbing things, according to Hoagland, is that the right section is supposed to be shadowed of something. Of course the shadow should not be there, because what could be responsible of that? Hoagland has his answer crystalclear: The shadow originate from remains or fragments of a huge roof, or doom, who once in time had covered big areas of the moon! To support this thesis further, he points on a "structure" (se picture at <AHREF="http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/hoagl_uk.html"> http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/hoagl_uk.html<;/A>), approximate in the middle of the shadowed area, who he called "the castle". The structure is built up by a couple of parallel short lines who lies close with each other. Hoagland supposesthat this is part of the old roof construction who now can be seen hanging in a sort of wire construction. OK for that...the structure is for sure odd and have some artificial outlines, but the question is: Is it really there? I have said it before and I say it again - to be sure you must have at least one more picture from a different angel, showing the same area with the same structure to make a judgement. Unfortunately, Hoagland has up till now failed to do so. Anyway, everyone ( who have an interest ) can of course order the same picture from NASA and look if the structure is there. And that's what I did... The picture arrived a month later. The expectations was high. NASA had promised us copies directly from the original and if these odd structures was there then NASA indeed had some question to answer. Turn on the lightboard, take out the magnifying-glass, and after 5 minutes of intensive checking it was all clear. It was clinicaly free from both any castle, vertical sticks or most of other odd things. I could not see any reflecting glass-structure in "the biosphere 2" and it was impossible to see any streets or buildings in the area called "LA". The only thing left was these mysterious shadowing of the right part of the picture. Whatever it is that are causing this shadowing, I think that a roof , doom, and similar thing comes very at the end in a list of possible explanations. One example of a explanation I can think of is that the photo was taken through a curved window where light from the right part of the picture have to go trough more glass then the left side and therefore have been more moderate. In my opinion it can only be two explanations. First: NASA has (due to some reason) retouched the picture from these odd structures. Second: these odd structures that we can see in Hoaglands picture is only a product of damage caused by a careless procedure during the copying process ( in principle, you must have a absolutely sterile room to avoid alien particles to reach the negative). If I'm going to make a guess of which of these two possibilities that are most likely then it must be the second. That's because I don't think that NASA would retouch structures who have such overwhelming similarities to scratches. Either the conclusion is right or not, this of course is devastating for Hoagland, because he must have been in the same (or better) position to do the same check of the basic material! Another picture who Hoagland claimes is evidence for intelligent activity is frame III-85H1 who seems to show a area overwhelming with something who look like twincraters! All of these twincraters is oriented in the same way and Hoagland claimed that this can not have been done by mother nature and it is tempting to agree on that. At least if they really are there! But if we look a little more closer, then we see that all round structures under a given magnitude is just - double. What can we learn from this? Well, one thing I think, namely that a little shaking on the camera under the exposing procedure would give similar, or I would say exactly the same pattern like these "twincraters". I don't meant that it must be so, but I mean that it can be so. And I'm saying that - before it's time to go out with these claims, it must be backed with at least one more picture of the same area and with at least same quality! In my opinion, this looks like a school example of a photo which is lacking of sharpness, caused by movement. This is only two examples of pictures where, in my opinion, ordinary photo procedures has been base to dramatic interpretations. This, of course, is devastating for the credibility of other pronouncement from the same person, but of course it's not the same as saying that all that he says is false. However, the gist is that Hoagland has destroyed his credibility in such way that you must take his future statement merely as good stories then result of methods of science. One of Hoaglands latest news is that the whole Moon-program was infiltrated of some Mason's with connections back to the old Egyptians (?!). Neil Armstrong was supposed to have placed flags and made some ceremonials on his trip to moon. Even the whole Moon-program was supposed to been driven in the light of the old legends of Sirius and such. After a look at a recent received picture from the Galileo- probe, showing one of Jupiter's moons - Callisto, Hoagland are arguing that one of the frames may be showing some artificial structures. These structures are supposed to be imbedded in ice and the structures, as usual, appears near the border of the pictures solution. NASA says that the surface of Callisto is more than 3 billion years old, so these "constructed" structures must've, in that case, been built on the ice from the beginning. Maybe there are unusual structures on Callisto too, but... I don't know, for me the whole thing sounds like something which is rapidly running of the track. We have tried to reach Hoagland for a comment by email, mail and fax, but without any luck. We hope that we can have a comment in a later issue of our e-magazine. This article and lots of others can be read at at <AHREF="http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/hoagl_uk.html"> http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/hoagl_uk.html<;/A>). Enjoy! Jorgen Westman / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: All Hell breaks loose! From: Judith Simons <jsimons@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:57:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:52:21 -0400 Subject: Re: All Hell breaks loose! At 04:56 PM 6/20/97 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:00:41 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: All Hell breaks loose! >It's happened! The national media has finally reported the mass >sighting in Phoenix (March 13,1997) My telephone has been jumping >off the hook. Media, researchers, friends, everyone has questions. I've also had phone calls from people who previously reacted to the subject of UFOs with, at best, condescending smiles. What is asked is, "What was that thing over Phoenix?" And I reply, "No one knows. That's why it is called a UFO." This is a wonderful opportunity to educate these newly interested people. I try to be careful in what I say and what books/articles I mention to those who ask for reference material. For example, I've included Richard Hall's (a bit dated, but still excellent) _Uninvited Visitors_ for an historical overview. I've been interested in and read about UFOs for over twenty years, and have transcribed for the MUFON Abduction Project for five years, but I'm no expert on the subject, certainly nowhere near as knowledgeable about nuts and bolts ufology as many of you who post to this list. I'd like our newly interested friends to, at least, start with a (relatively) balanced look at what we all know is an incredibly convoluted subject. (It might help when they hit the mine field that's waiting for them.) : ) I would appreciate some suggestions on responses to, and references for these persons. I suspect I'm not the only list member who is suddenly in this position. Judith Simons
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Lights over Phoenix From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:57:27 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:59:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Lights over Phoenix Hi folks, please check out the AP wire copy, below, on what Gov. Symington of Arizona thinks of the unidentified lights seen last March. ---------------------------------- Received this while working today at home radio station WBAI NY. Governor's alien probe is one for the 'J-files', as in joke By Paul Davenport Associated Press Writer Phoenix (AP) - The promise form Gov. Fife Symingtpm sounded stramge bit sincere, coming as it was form a "Star Trek" fan: a state probe into the mysterious lights reported over Phoenix three months ago. "We're going to get to the bottom of it", Symington said during a lunch break Thursday from his federal fraud trial. "We're going to find out whether it was a UFO of whether it was an IFO - an identified flying object. We will get to the bottom of it." Reporters were skeptical, but aides said Symington really was putting the Department of Public Safety on the case. Reporters were even encouraged to ask about UFOs and the boomerang-shaped formation of lights. While the obviously confused public safety agency promised information when they had it, Symington's office said the Republican governor would discuss the UFO business after his trial had recessed for the day. So the reporters came. And at least two teoevision stations were carrying the event live when Symington announced that a suspect was in custody. In came the alien, a glittery pink and silver one with a big head and big googly eyes. Underneath the costume was Symington's chief of staff, Jay Heiler. "This just goes to show you guys are entirely too serious," Symington said as aides laughed heartly. On the evening of March 23, many people in the Phoenix area and as far north as Prescott reported seeing the lights. The Federal Avaition Adminsitration reported nothing unusual on its screens. This week ,various media outlets have run stories on the lights. Between TV and Hollywood, aliens have been hot. And July 8 marks the 50th anniversary of the day a rancher near Roswell, N.M., found debris that many UFO buffs believe was from a flying saucer. An Air Force investigation found thate the debris probably came from a once top-seret balloon designed to monitor the atmosphere for the evidence of Soviet nuclear test. direct from copy ---------------------- best Paul Wms. Producer UFO Desk WBAI NY 99.5 FM www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Current Encounters: McAndrew/Weaver Roswell Book From: Robert Swiatek <swiman@POP.DN.NET> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:02:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:05:43 -0400 Subject: Current Encounters: McAndrew/Weaver Roswell Book List Members: Called the Government Printing Office on Friday (6-20) to get the official line on the McAndrew/Weaver Roswell book. According to the GPO, the book will cost $18.00 and will be a perfectbound paperback. It's scheduled for release in three to four weeks, but the woman hastened to add that it's not unusual for books to appear before their scheduled release dates. Along these lines, I spoke to the putative author--one James McAndrew--on the phone earlier this week about his book. He must have orders from on high not to talk because that's exactly what he did: He closed his mouth. For a moment, I thought the line was dead so complete was the silence. I could see my approach was fruitless and rather than argue, I wished him a good day and hung up. --Rob Swiatek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says Add to this the POPULAR MECHANICS cover article (current ish) in which they claim to have learned soon to be released U.S. gov't. documents will reveal the following: The device which crashed and was recovered by Kaufmann and friends was a modified Fugo balloon carrying a crescent-shaped Horten wing glider with Japanese scientists aboard. It was an experimental recon device. Seems the Japs were captured and brought to New Mexico in a Far Eastern version of Operation Paper Clip, under which Von Braun et al. were brought to the U.S. I suppose the Jap version was called "Paper Crip." As Jim Moseley has observed, the so-called mundane explanations for Roswell are rapidly becoming as bizarre as the ET notions. In that vein, my theory: The Japs were flying in their Fugo-Horten tossing the dummies overboard. They got so absorbed in the fun, they failed to notice they were losing altitude rapidly. They bounced across the ground on the Foster ranch, leaving a trail of debris, managed to get airborne long enough to reach the "Kaufmann" site, where they crashed in the arroyo. The Jap bodies are what Glenn's nurse saw, and the dummies are now running the International UFO Museum AND the USAF. -- Cheers, KARL D. BUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jun 97 10:55:22 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:11:12 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Roswell-- Anatomy of A Myth' [snipped] >Why don't you share your "conclusive proof" with the rest of the list? >Rebecca Actually, I plan to do just that. Maurizio Baiata has asked me to make the talk I presented in San Marino into an article for his magazine, and some other UFO magazines have expressed an interest in printing it in a number of languages. Once I have the text in pretty good form I will post it here, along with JPEG files of the Kodak and other documents. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jun 97 10:55:20 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:42:05 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Dear Jim et al, >Then it's an equal oxymoron to assume that their superior, superduper >spaceship would have come so completely apart after an encounter with a >terrestrial thunderstorm. After all, if you're not "constrained by the laws >of physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand >[them]," then why bother crashing in the first place? Eh? Or did they run >head-on into some some 21st century laws of phsysics and time we just don't >know about yet? >Just curious. Dennis, I want to once again address something which I looked into two years ago, and reported at the time.. This powerful thunderstorm is a part of modern mythology, and linked by some to the Roswell event. In actual fact, there most likely was no such thunderstorm. I interviewed climatologists in the area, and they in turn consulted records for 1947, and there is no record of ANY thunderstorm in the area for the time period of June and July of 1947. Now, admittedly weather reporting was less sophisticated back then, but you would think that a thunderstorm of such remarkable proportions would have been reported or mentioned in the local media, and there is no mention in any of the local/regional newspapers. I don't know what crashed or why, but I certainly see no strong reason to believe that a thunderstorm had anything to do with it. On a more important note, we often can not figure out why our own aircraft come down, so why should we think we can figure out why an extraterrestrial/extratemporal/extradimensional craft would come down??? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:56:39 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:14:12 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says >>looking beings from outer space, the Pentagon plans to issue a report >>soon contending that alien-like bodies have fallen from the skies over >>New Mexico: man-made dummies. >> Rubbery, humanoid-shaped dummies with no body hair, ears or noses. I wonder which company made these rubbery dummies, and why would they forget ears and nose but yet put black "contact lenses" in the eyes? <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Roswell - Most 'Convincing' Evidence From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:56:43 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:28:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell - Most 'Convincing' Evidence >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:05:19 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Roswell - Most Convincing Evidence >connected with the Roswell incident. I haven't, other than the obvious >one - the saucer crashed, there were bodies, & therefore the powers that >be would stop at nothing to contain the incident. Melanie, I agree with your conclusion. Furthermore, if it was a Mogul balloon that the gov't knew about, why have to fly it to Wright-Patterson for analysis. It was already identified by Gen. Ramey! This Roswell explanation does not hold water. <g> Oh, and does a balloon really require a flatbed truck, and perhaps 4ft coffins? <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 UFO UpDate:Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:59:34 -0400 Subject: UFO UpDate:Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: how many fingers? >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:18:14 -0400 > As for Sarbacher, didn't he say his involvement was minor, and > confined to the early days of this alleged work? If he got drawn into > the heart of it in the early '60s, as Corso seems to say, he never > breathed a word of it. According to Whitley Strieber, he phoned Sarbacher in 1986 shortly before he died. Sarbacher told him he wasn't peripherally involved, as he had told others earlier, but had actually handled and analyzed Roswell debris. Allegedly he said that the structure of the "fabric" didn't become apparent until the 1960s when they finally developed suitable microscopics. Historically, this would be the advent of the scanning electron microscope in the 1960s (I'm not sure Strieber would have even known about this instrument). He said they found out that the fabric had been "welded" or "machined" at the molecular level. What I find interesting about this conversion is that Sarbacher was describing what we now call nanotechnology, which is currently in its infancy. Go to the NASA Web page and start browsing around. The promise of nanotechnology, according to scientists working on it, is the development of lightweight materials with superstrength, hardness, and heat resistance. When you assemble materials on an atom by atom basis, you can eliminate the macroscopic flaws of ordinary materials that limit their strength. Computer quantum mechanical modeling predicts increases in strength on the order of 70 to 80 times over today's best materials. For example, a projected diamond/titanium composite would have unheard of strength and heat resistance. It would be harder than ordinary diamond, meaning you couldn't scratch or drill it with diamond tools. Currently "nanoscientists" are modeling molecular assemblers, miniscule molecular machines powered by lasers, that can assemble materials in any way you want. This means that it will also be possible to make "active" materials, that is materials which respond to the environment in certain ways and with built-in intelligence. For example, a spaceship hull might be manufactured to repair itself if punctured by a micrometeorite, just like our skin heals itself. This sounds very much like the stuff described by Roswell witnesses. The materials were lightweight, very strong and hard, being either unbreakable in the field or couldn't be cut with knives, weren't affected by ordinary flames, and in the case of the foil-like material, had active properties. The "foil" could be wadded up and would then return to its original shape without wrinkling, or it could be hammered and the dent would just pop out again. This would be wonderful stuff to make an outer hull with. I would like to make another point, which I earlier tried to make with Dennis Stacy, but got completely blown off. Kent Jeffrey was also arguing like Stacy in his recent debunking of Roswell. The argument they presented was that the materials recovered at Roswell lacked the variety one would expect from an advanced craft. My point was that this is actually what one would expect from an advanced technology -- a minimum of materials. The current trend of our technology is to increase function and complexity through integration. Hand wired 1950s mainframe computers with individual transisters went to integrated circuits on circuit boards in the 1960s and finally to Pentium chips with 8 million transisters on a chip. Superficially a Pentium chip would like like a shiny black wafer, and only when you place it under a microscope do you realize that it is a very complex beast. Recent advances in plastics have created conducting plastics, semiconducting plastics, light-emitting plastics, batteries made of plastic, etc. In the not-to-distant future (like 20-30 years) we will likely see flat screen TVs made entirely of plastic -- display, electronics, and all. Gone will be the picture tube and magnetic coils, the circuit board with hundreds of individual components. Gone too may be the controls. Intelligence could be built-in, and the whole thing could be voice activated and controlled. It would be one integrated unit. The same sort of integration could be accomplished with the hull of a spacecraft, or the interior cabins. Sensors could be built-in, as would lighting and controls. New generations of daylight Stealth aircraft, e.g., are rumored to have luminescent hulls, whose lighting is controlled by built-in sensors, the purpose being to render the planes virtually invisible to the eye by adjusting the luminance of the plane to match background illumination. (It's an old WWII subhunting trick used by the Allies, that worked extremely well.) I think it is also quite obvious, and has been for some time, that saucers don't use a conventional propulsion system, and probably use some form of intense electromagnetic propulsion along the lines of magnetohydrod ynamics. Again, such a propulsion system can be integrated right into the structure of the craft. So could the power storage, e.g. if the hull was superconducting or used high energy capacitive storage or had energy beamed to it remotely. A magnetohydrodynamic concept saucer currently under development at the Rensselaer Institute is very much like this description. Thus, we aren't likely to find fuel pumps, hoses, reactors, and turbines lying around at a crash site. Therefore I don't find Kent Jeffrey's or Dennis Stacy's argument compelling for dismissing Roswell. An advanced technology ship could be made of a minimum of distinctive looking materials. One might even expect it, given our own technolgical trends in integration. Also, even materials which might look the same to the eye, could conceal enormous complexity and differences in function, if examined more closely under a microscope. Remember, all we have our reports from the field from various people of shattered debris. They didn't cart a fully equipped laboratory around with them. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 'Debunkers vs. UFO Menace' - Part 1 From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerry Clark] Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:27:47 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:06:39 -0400 Subject: 'Debunkers vs. UFO Menace' - Part 1 The Debunkers vs. the UFO Menace; or, Is Ufology Tantamount to Communism? by Jerome Clark (written in 1992) On August 23, 1983, an administrator at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln took a strange phone call from a man who had a complaint which he expressed at some length. When he finally got offf the phone, the administrator summarized the conversation in a memo to another university official: "Mr. Phillip [sic] Klass ... is a member of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal [CSICOP]. This committee has a much different view of unexplained phenomena than those groups we are working with as sponsors of "this conference [titled Exploring Unexplained Phenomena]. He was, in fact, quite adament [sic] in his position regarding the credibility of the conference presenters. Further, Mr. Klass has a personal feeling that the nature of this conference seriously questions the integrity of the United States Government. He feels that there is no scientific evidence to support the claims of the presenters and indicated that these organizations, by publicly questioning the government, lend support to the Communist movement." All ufologists, of course, know who Philip J. Klass is. A Washington-based aerospace journalist, Klass is the world's best known (and, some would say, most obsessed) critic of UFO reports and ufologists, the author of books with self-explanatory titles as UFOs Explained, UFOs: The Public Deceived, and UFO Abductions: A Dangerous Game -- all sacred texts of the debunking movement. That same day the administrator phoned conference organizer Ray Boeche to inform him of the conversation. The administrator said Klass had called the chancellor's office and talked with someone there. When Klass hinted that he was considering legal action against the university, the call had been transferred to the administrator, who told Boeche he thought he had been able to mollify Klass. The university sent Klass a letter, thanking him for his interest, and assumed that would end the matter. It was wrong. At the conference, held between November 11 and 13 at the university conference center, Boeche showed some of us a copy of the memo in which the administrator paraphrased Klass' suggestion that UFO cover-up proponents were serving the ends of Soviet foreign policy. Of course by now we were used to the sort of overheated rhetoric that flows in an unending stream of vitriol from the mouths and keyboards of CSICOP's bombast artists. After all, Klass and his CSICOP colleagues had already characterized us ufologists as antiscience cultists, cryptofascists, mental cases, money-grubbing exploiters, and raving irrationalists, and CSICOP chairman Paul Kurtz had repeatedly assured the press that societal acceptance of anomalies and the paranormal threatens the fabric of civilization. Still, Klass' linking of ufologists with Communist subversion was a new wrinkle. Klass, we knew, would not be happy to learn that these peculiar private pronouncements were now peculiar public pronouncements. As it turned out, he wasn't just unhappy. He was livid. On November 23 Klass wrote the administrator, who was startled to see large chunks of Klass' words from their three-month-old conversation quoted verbatim -- indicating, the administrator correctly surmised, that Klass had taped the two without informing him he was doing so. Klass said that since a "copy of your memo was 'leaked' to outsiders," he wanted to "clarify and expand upon statements" he had made. He said "we" -- presumably meaning himself and CSICOP -- did not seek to "prevent conferences or meetings by those who want to propose UFOs" but that he had some trouble with the university's sponsorship of a conference on the subject. What, he asked, would the university do "if the American Nazi Party came in and said they [sic] wanted to hold a conference?" "I emphasize to you that I am not, repeat not, suggesting that any of the people or any of the organizations are in any way affiliated with Communist Fronts or with the Soviet Union. But as a patriotic American, I very much resent the charge of 'coverup', of lying, of falsehoods, charged against not one Administration, not two, but eight Administrations going back to a man from Missouri named Truman, a man named Dwight Eisenhower. Because if this charge is true -- Cosmic Watergate -- then all of these Presidents were implicated, and all of their Administrations.... [In making this charge, ufologists] seek what the Soviet Union does -- to convey to the public that our Government can not be trusted, that it lies, that it falsifies. Now I'm not so naive -- remembering Watergate -- to say that never has happened in history. But from my firsthand experience (i.e., 17 years in the field of UFOlogy), I know this charge is completely false. And I resent it as an American citizen." Remarkably, Klass distributed copies of this letter to others, including me, on the evident belief that it would exonerate him, in other words demonstrate that when read in context his sentiments would sound rational. He would even charge that the administrator's paraphrase had been "inaccurate," when if anything it made Klass' charge sound marginally less nutty. As I wrote Klass on December 6, "In the past, when your critics have accused you of engaging in McCarthyism, they were using the term in a metaphorical sense. Now, it seems, they will be able to use it in the most literal sense." As ufologists gleefully copied and circulated both the administrator's memo and Klass' November 23 letter, Klass complained to the university about its release of the memo and threatened legal action. Late in January 1984 the administrator told Boeche, according to the latter, that he feared losing his job over the affair. About six weeks later the administrator informed Boeche that the university would not sponsor another anomalies conference. The decision, he said, "came straight from the chancellor's office." Pressed for a reason, the administrator responded evasively but "strongly implied," in Boeche's words, that the decision had to do with the troubles the previous conference had brought them. A short time later Boeche received written notification of the decision. The letter gave no reason for the decision. Boeche, who had hoped to make the conference an annual event, sought alternative funding without success. In October 1984, in a final desperate move, Boeche mailed a letter to all who had attended the 1983 meeting and urged them to encourage the chancellor to reverse his decision. One attender published a letter to the editor of the Lincoln Journal about the episode. Subsequently an Associated Press reporter interviewed the administrator, who said -- for the first time ever -- that the university had canceled sponsorship because it had lost money on the conference. The university repeated the claim in a form letter it sent to all inquirers. Till now, in all of Boeche's discussions with university officials re- garding the conference-related problems, not one -- least of all the administrator -- had raised the issue of the conference's profitability. All those with whom Boeche spoke had talked only of Klass' legal threats. At no time was Boeche shown a financial statement documenting the university's belated version of events. In a November 2 meeting with the chancellor's assistant, who dutifully recited the new party line, Boeche asked whom he should believe: an administrator who was afraid of losing his job (and whose private statements had been markedly different from his later public ones) or a chancellor's assistant who could take that job away. "It was quite obvious that that was a question he didn't want to answer," Boeche recalls. In fact, the previous January 11 Klass had written this man complaining about the university's failure to respond to an earlier letter. Klass said he expected the university to express "shock and disgust" over the leaking of the memo and to apologize "for such irresponsible actions." If the university chose not to act, Klass wrote, he would consider taking "appropriate legal action to set the record straight and to clear my name." Eleven days later he wrote the chancellor's assistant again and asked for a "list of the Board of Regents of your University, together with their mailing addresses." Soon Klass was hearing from the university's attorney. Meanwhile Klass and I were engaged in correspondence about this strange ongoing episode. Though not denying that he had threatened to sue the university -- indeed he sent me a copy of the just-quoted January 11 letter -- he continually tried to change the subject, citing conferences he had not called sponsors to complain about, as if these were relevant to anything or, even more crazily, evidence of personal virtue. He claimed not to object to "pseudoscience" conferences in principle, only to those that universities sponsored without bringing in speakers who shared Klass' views. As of March 31, a letter of his to me makes clear, the university -- despite what by now had been a number of exchanges between it and him -- had not claimed that it lost money on the conference. To the contrary, Klass said it was his "understanding" that the university had not contributed money to the organizers or allowed uncompen- sated use of its conference facilities. Writing on May 14, he emphatically denied believing or suggesting that the university cancelled sponsorship because the conference lost money. He said he understood that the university shared neither profits nor losses from the conference. On April 4 I remarked that "you really never addressed the issue I attempted to raise ... that you had a role, apparently the deciding role, in the University of Nebraska's decision not to sponsor next year's UFO/Fortean conference. As you are well aware, the threat of being sued is a powerful way of affecting somebody's behavior.... It is hardly surprising that the university did not want to involve itself in litigation and entirely predictable that it chose to scuttle the Fortean conference as a consequence. It just wasn't worth the hassle in the university's view. You, by your threats and meddling, apparently presented a problem the university did not want to deal with. It was easier to cancel next year's conference than to risk further problems. I am not aware that I accused you of deliberately setting out to sabotage the conference. I said that your acts had the effect of so doing." In subsequent correspondence Klass insisted, ludicrously, that his legal threats could have had nothing to do with the university's decision because if they had, he implied, university spokesmen would have said so openly. He seemed to be suggesting that the university had simply seen the wisdom of his argument about the conference's lack of "balance" and acted accordingly. He went on to compare university sponsorship of a UFO conference to sponsorship of a Ku Klux Klan or Nazi Party meeting. Klass would also contend that proponents of a UFO cover-up were in effect accusing Presidents of treason, a "slanderous" charge. All the while ufologists and the UFO press were having great fun at Klass' expense, with his desperate clarifications and rationalizations only fueling the merriment. Finally and hilariously, on October 18, notwithstanding his earlier assertions that the university had not lost money from the conference, Klass copied and distributed an October 14 AP article from the Omaha World Herald, in which the university introduced the loss-of-money yarn to the world. He cited it as proof that he had been right all along. End of Part 1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 James Easton's comments From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jun 97 13:09:12 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:08:11 -0400 Subject: James Easton's comments On UFO Updates James Easton has commented that I stated that I was not interested in UFOs. James may produce documentation if he likes, but I don't think I ever used those words. When I first became involved in the AA film controversy, it is true that I downplayed my interest in UFOs, and for good reason. In "real life" I am the Editor of Shutterbug magazine, which is the world's third largest montlhy photography magazine. I had not made it known within the photo community that I was interested in UFOs, and did not want to end up labeled a "nut" by the community on which my job depended. So, for political reasons which ought to be obvious, I downplayed my prior involvement in UFOlogy. In actual fact, my interest in UFOs goes back to my early teens, and came from my father. My dad, now retired, was a TV newsman as long as there was TV, and a radio newsman prior to that. He went into radio after serving in WW II, and moved over to TV when it came on the scene. He was an investigative journalist of the old school, alwayd digging for the truth of the matter. He is the man who first broke the story of the Russian downing of one of our U-2 spy planes and the capture of Frances Gary Powers, the pilot. This episode is given a new spin in Corso's book, and I've bought my dad a copy to read and will be interested in his comments. I grew up in Roanoke, Virginia, and that is only about 60 miles from the little town of Wytheville, Virginia. Those who keep up with UFO flaps will recall that Wythville has had them for years, and was one of the first places to have numerous reports of the black triangular type of UFO. But the UFO activity there goes back to the 50s, at least. My father was a skeptic when these stories first started and he used them as "silly season" stories in his news reports. Over the years, though, he had a change of heart. He had talked to so many ordinary people telling extraordinary stories that he became convinced that there must be something going on. Something strange. He got into hot water a number of times with the management of the TV station for doing reports and editorials in which he treated the subject seriously. So I went through my early teens watching my dad change his mind about UFOs. When I was in Washington, DC, after college working for the Smithsonian Institution I had a girlfriend for a while who was working as a secretary for a strange man named Don Keyhoe. So I met Keyhoe, and talked to him on a few occasions, and spent some time in his library looking through the books on UFOs. I had already met, and become friends with zoologist Ivan T. Sanderson, who had done research and articles about UFOs. So I took the subject seriously. I even wrote a few pieces on UFOs in the early 70s for the old Gnostica magazine, when my pal Isaac Bonewits was editor. But career changes and my plunge into photography made it not good politics to be openly pro-UFO, and I was disgusted with the way the field was going, so I pretty much dropped out of active UFOlogy. I think this was around 1974-75. I kept up with what was going on by reading the books, but that was it. The opportunity offered by the Santilli film brought me back into UFO research, and I think I am here to stay. I took a chance during this period of research on the AA film to "come out of the closet" about my interest in UFOs in the photo community. Much to my surprise I have found the community very receptive to this aspect of me and my interests, and quite a few people at all levels in the photo industry have confided to me their interest, and in some cases their personal UFO experiences. No one has been nearly as critical of me in this community as have some in the UFO community. In the past two and a half years I have freely admitted my UFO interest in interviews in the photo industry. Photo Shopper magazine published a lengthy interview with me about the AA film. There is another long interview with some UFO material posted on CompuServe's Photographers and Models Forum (Go:PHOTOH). I have decided to be completely open about my interest, and my own sighting within the photo community, because it is a part of me, and I was growing tired of pretending to be someone I am not. In the August and September issues of Shutterbug I am publishing a two part article on interpretation of UFO photographs by Bruce Maccabee, to my knowledge the first publication of a serious UFO article in a mainstream photography magazine. I stuck my neck out with my boss to convince him this would not reflect negatively on the magazine's sales, and I am sure it will not. The news stands are full of all sorts of magazines with UFO articles right now. Anyway, I'm sorry this post is so long, but I thought this needed clarification. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:17:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:42:05 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >I very much agree with these assessments of Kent's assumptions. It's an > >oxymoron to imply that aliens sufficiently evolved to have traveled from > >there to here, and who could be tens of thousands of years farther along > >in their civilization than we are, would be constrained by the laws of > >physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand > >those laws! > > Jim Deardorff > Dear Jim et al, > Then it's an equal oxymoron to assume that their superior, superduper > spaceship would have come so completely apart after an encounter with a > terrestrial thunderstorm. After all, if you're not "constrained by the laws > of physics governing time and space as we 20th-century humans understand > [them]," then why bother crashing in the first place? Eh? Or did they run > head-on into some some 21st century laws of phsysics and time we just don't > know about yet? > Just curious. Dennis and any others, Perhaps the caveman analogy will help. A scientist who has just discovered the secret of time travel treats an anthropologist friend to a trip back in time, and they whisk a caveman of 15,000 years ago away and bring him back into our own time. Then they treat him to some of our own culture, including automobile rides, during which time they happen to drive by a couple of auto crash sites. Later they return him so as to avoid any serious time paradox. Can you guess the rest? After the caveman returns and grunts out his story to others, who can't believe him and all the marvels and things he described, their wise one asks him, "How come some of these super-duper vehicles of the future crash, even killing their riders? Eh?" I for one do not wish to assume that aliens never make mistakes of judgment, or have absolutely fool-proof vehicles. Nor would I necessarily assume that it was a thunderstorm that brought it down. Any such flat-out assumption makes no more sense than assuming that science & technology don't keep developing past one's own era. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 'Debunkers vs. UFO Menace' - Part 2 From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:30:00 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:40:49 -0400 Subject: 'Debunkers vs. UFO Menace' - Part 2 The Debunkers vs. the UFO Menace; or, Is Ufology Tantamount to Communism? Part 2 by Jerome Clark (written in 1992) In 1986 Omni editor Dick Teresi asked if I would do a short article for an upcoming issue on censorship in science. I responded with a manuscript I titled "Anomaly Bashing"; it was published as "Censoring the Paranormal" in the February 1987 issue. (It was later reprinted in Ted Schultz's 1989 book The Fringes of Reason, page 203.) The piece dealt with debunking extremism, much of it associated with CSICOP. In it I devoted a paragraph to the Nebraska episode. (See Part 1 for details.) No sooner had the issue hit the stands than I was taking calls from Teresi and, shortly after, from Omni's attorney. Leading CSICOPs had contacted Teresi to let him know sentiments such as mine were unacceptable to the debunking thought police (I had urged an end to the "hysteria" and a return to the "serious business of dispassionate investigation," apparently just about the last thing the debunkers wanted to hear); more important, Klass had actually threatened to sue over my few words. Omni asked for additional documentation beyond what I had already provided, and that was the end of at least that much. I had written CSICOP Chairman Paul Kurtz as long ago as December 7, 1983, to ask him what he thought of Klass' charge that ufologists were serving Soviet ends. Enclosing a transcript of Klass' remarks, I asked, "Does CSICOP condone these sorts of charges? Do you ... draw a line between hard-hitting criticisms of anomalous claims and the extravagant, even scurrilous charges Klass has made in his communications [with the Nebraska administrator]?" Kurtz's response, dated December 20, can best be characterized as mealy-mouthed. After assuring me of his belief in free expression, he said Klass was speaking for himself and CSICOP members hold a range of opinions. Translation: Kurtz did not want to get involved. Even the leveling of charges most people would regard as McCarthy-ite could elicit no condemnation, or even a mild demur, from the leadership, which had already tolerated accusations from Klass and other CSICOP-affiliated debunkers that ufologists are exploiters, irrationalists, cultists, and so on. Perhaps, seen in this context, it is true that Klass' ufology-is-tantamount-to-Communism spiel amounted to no significant escalation of either vitriol or craziness. Still, while CSICOP is immensely indulgent of even the most lunatic attacks on paranormal and anomalous claims and claimants, it has no tolerance whatever for criticisms of itself, as its high-dudgeon reaction to my Omni essay had already demonstrated. In that vein, in a June 10, 1987, note, Kurtz sniffed about my "unrelenting attacks on CSICOP in Fate and other magazines." I replied on July 8: "It is strange to get this [complaint] from someone who directs an organization devoted to nothing but 'unrelenting attacks' on proponents of anomalies and the paranormal. At least 'Fate and other magazines' -- unlike [CSICOP's magazine] Skeptical Inquirer -- devote only a small, even tiny, percentage of their pages to criticism of those with whom they disagree.... I realize that CSICOP, like any organization with political objectives, may not have the luxury of choosing its allies as carefully as it might like. But you can hardly protest when from time to time you are held accountable for the antics of those whose activities you promote and whom you seldom criticize in any meaningful way.... [I]t is more than a trifle hypocritical for you to react with shock and indignation when you are attacked in return. I'm reminded of what Edward G. Robinson said in the classic gangster film Little Caesar: 'You've been dishin' it out so long you can't take it no more'." Skeptical Inquirer editor Kendrick Frazier, one of those who had complained to Teresi, wrote an indignant response to my Omni article in the September 1987 issue of his magazine. What it lacked in specifics, it made up for in sweeping proclamations, one of them that my words about Klass were "malicious" and, moreover, known by me "to be false." (If that were true, of course, Klass _would_ have had a legal case.) Frazier neither mentioned nor questioned Klass' McCarthyite slur of ufologists, thus becoming yet another CSICOP notable to maintain a tactful silence on the subject. Frazier did not answer my letter challenging him on these points. I did, however, get a letter from Mark Plummer, then CSICOP's Executive Director, who wrote me on August 31 on another matter. In my September 4 reply, I said, in part: "The whole controversy about my Omni editorial centers on the question of whether CSICOP contains individuals of extreme (i.e., lunatic fringe) views and whether CSICOP can fairly be criticized for same. In that regard it is surely significant that at no time has CSICOP publicly disassociated itself from the pronouncements of Philip J. Klass, who holds that UFO proponents are serving the ends of Soviet foreign policy, nor is there any evidence that it has reprimanded him in any way. In fact, the editor of Skeptical Inquirer has expressed outrage that anyone would take exception to such assertions, even suggesting that someone who did (me) could only have been acting out of malice. "The clear implication is that CSICOP -- which continues to portray Klass as a responsible spokesman and to give wide publicity to his assorted pronouncements -- either agrees with these views or at least considers them acceptable expressions of opinion." Plummer wrote back on September 17 to ask for "proof" that Klass had accused ufologists of serving Soviet ends. I provided such proof, which included a transcript of the phone conversation that Klass himself had given me (quoted at length in Part 1). The response was silence -- at least on his end. I heard not from Plummer but from Klass, to whom I learned Plummer had sent copies of my letters. Klass' communication, dated October 5, was titled "AN OPEN-LETTER CHALLENGE TO JEROME CLARK." Referring to my September 4 letter, Klass noted my observation (though adding italics to it) that he "_holds that UFO proponents are serving the ends of Soviet foreign policy_." He grandly offered $5000 to the Center for UFO Studies (of which I am an officer) if -- Klass' italics again -- "you can find in any of my _published books or articles_ where I have said that 'UFO proponents are serving the ends of Soviet foreign policy', or words substantially equivalent." He hastily appended this amendment: the offer "does _not_ apply to my expression of personal opinion during a private telephone conversation" with the Nebraska administrator. In an open letter of my own three days later, I pointed out the obvious: that at no time had I ever charged, indicated, implied, or hinted that Klass had _published_ his strange equation of ufologists with Communists; the issue all along had been his privately uttered words to the administrator. "Amusingly," I noted, "in making his 'challenge', Klass seeks to exclude the very evidence that bears on the issue." Meanwhile, in an October 13 letter to Marcello Truzzi (who co-founded CSICOP with Kurtz but who had left the organization long since to become one of its major critics), Klass said he stood by the sentiments he had expressed to the administrator. Having heard nothing from Plummer, I wrote him on November 18. "Now that you have been fully informed of Klass' excesses, may we expect to see an editorial in Skeptical Inquirer apologizing to the UFO community for being subject to such scurrilous accusations?" I asked. "May we expect to see a statement declaring that McCarthyism (or any other form of irrational excess) has no part in the anomaly debate? Or may we expect, as I'm afraid I do, absolutely no reaction whatever from CSICOP?" On November 23 Plummer replied. Having reviewed the evidence, he saw nothing "excessive" in Klass' pronouncements. It was, he added, all my fault for "jumping to conclusions." To this day not a single significant CSICOP figure has disavowed Klass' charges or chastised him for making them. Instead CSICOP has reserved all its criticism for those who, like me, have raised the issue. Publicly CSICOP pretends to believe that my portrayal of these events is false. On April 26, 1990, Rick Moen of Bay Area Skeptics posted Klass' account of the episode on a computer network used by debunkers. Hilariously, Klass fails to note anywhere that he had equated ufologists with Communist agents, though he does acknowledge that he "asked if the American Nazi Party wanted to rent its facilities for a meeting, whether the University would 'sponsor' said meeting" -- evidently a moral dilemma he found equivalent to sponsorship of a UFO conference. Meanwhile, Philip J. Klass remains a CSICOP and debunking superstar, a regular speaker at CSICOP's conferences, and a frequent contributor to Skeptical Inquirer. Prometheus Books, which Kurtz heads, continues to issue Klass titles. A final note: On October 28, 1991, I asked Klass, "Do you still consider proponents of a UFO cover-up threats to the republic? Or do you now, at last, disavow the remarks you made -- you know, the ones so embarrassing to you that you threatened to sue the leakers -- to the University of Nebraska?" Klass replied on November 26. After informing me, apparently as yet another ufologist equivalent to Communists, that I could have become one of the top writers for Pravda in the pre-peristroika era, he denied ever alleging that ufologists constitute a threat to the republic. In the next breath he affirmed that yes, he stood by his remarks to the Nebraska administrator -- in which he held that ufologists constitute a threat to the republic. In a rational world CSICOP would have been laughed out of existence following revelations of its bumbling and double-dealing in the "Starbaby" scandal (as chronicled in side-splitting detail by Dennis Rawlins in Fate, October 1981). But in this irrational world CSICOP continues to masquerade as the voice of reason and, as one of its leading lights would have us believe, ufology is still tantamount to Communism. End
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:05:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:50:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:41:56 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings >What a wonderful type of journalism, where you don't report the event, but >that somebody asks 'Hey, does anybody know what happened?' ... Actually, competition from other media sources is more likely the cause of this sudden interest by so many media outlets. Of course, the approach of the big 50th celebration doesn't hurt, and there is a sweep period to think about. . . . <g> It all happened very quickly, but I think that the article in USA Today last week began the sudden rush of coverage. I was impressed with ABCs decision to take the video tape images and have them analyzed for a followup report later this summer. Their science correspondent said that he regretted that scientists have stopped investigating "UFOs", because there were cases like this one that were very intriguing. >BTW, the Phoenix holo projection hypotheses makes sense to me. >Alf Golly, they must have good projectors to get the image to travel as far as it did. Or, perhaps a portable project on a truck . . . . . Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Unabashed Commercial plug From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:30:20 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:59:13 -0400 Subject: Unabashed Commercial plug Dear List, The Anomalist 5 will be back from the printer next week and I'm now accepting orders for same, if anyone is interested. Quality paperback format, illustrated, 160 pages, $9.95 plus $2.50 shipping & handling. Please make checks payable to Dennis Stacy and *not* The Anomalist, PO Box 12434, San Antonio, Texas, 78212. Table of Contents Too Many Anomalies, Not Enough Time Commentary by T. Peter Park Deep Secrets: Is the Navy Telling Idaho Residents a Whopper of a Fish Story? Patrick Huyghe Mindsight: How the Blind Can "See" During Near-Death Experiences Kenneth Ring & Shannon Cooper The Channeled Myths of James Merrill: New Tales of Atlantis and Akhnaton John Chambers Jules Verne: Science Fiction Writer, Psychic or Remote Viewer? Joseph W. McMoneagle UFOs: For RAND Use Only Karl T. Pflock Cosmic Dancers on History's Stage? The Permanent Revolution in the Earth Sciences Mike Davis Anyone who thinks science understands the solar system and Earth's unique position in it should read this long, revolutionary essay, which we uncovered lurking in an English political magazine, The New Left Review. Talk about earthshaking: why overturn a paradigm or two, when you can dump four, five or six in the same article? This is maybe the single most thought-provoking article I've personally read in the last decade, and I've read a lot of articles in that time period. Guaranteed to make you think about things in new ways--or you're brain dead and need to pick out your burial clothes now. Revolutionary and mind-blowing, and I'm not just casually hurling superlatives here. Why the dinosaurs had to die! Jupiter's role as Earth's Big Brother! The solar system as a living mechanism! This asteroid's for you, and much, much more! Don't miss it. Treat your mind to a stretch. More than worth the price of admission alone. Besides, if you support The Anomalist that means we'll be able to do another one. Back issues of TA2, 3 and 4 are still available, only $9.95 each. Order two issues or more and pay only $3.00 shipping and handling total. The Anomalist 1, with Martin Cannon's "The Numbers Game," is now an official collector's item. If you hurry, you can still get a copy from Glenn Campbell's Area 51 Research Center, Bob Girard's Arcturus Books, or William Corliss at The Sourcebook Project. The Anomalist is edited and published two times a year by Dennis Stacy and Patrick Huyghe. Our web site is at: http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist/ I thank you for your time and hope the band passed the audition.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:41:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:11:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:29:11 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many fingers? > Allegedly he said that the structure of the "fabric" didn't become > apparent until the 1960s when they finally developed suitable > microscopics. > What I find interesting about this conversion is that Sarbacher was > describing what we now call nanotechnology, which is currently in > its infancy. Go to the NASA Web page and start browsing around. The > promise of nanotechnology, according to scientists working on it, is > the development of lightweight materials with superstrength, hardness, > and heat resistance. > When you assemble materials on an atom by atom basis, you can > eliminate the macroscopic flaws of ordinary materials that limit their > strength. Computer quantum mechanical modeling predicts increases in > strength on the order of 70 to 80 times over today's best materials. > For example, a projected diamond/titanium composite would have unheard > of strength and heat resistance. It would be harder than ordinary > diamond, meaning you couldn't scratch or drill it with diamond tools. Actually, I wonder why no one has brought this up lately. Attended MD MUFON conference early May and Linda Howe presented her evidence about the debris that had been sent to Art Bell (from the grandson of an individual who was allegedly a member of the "cleanup crew" & lifted some samples from the site). Evidently the Molybdenum/Magnesium (hope I am repeating this combination correctly from memory - apologies, cannot find my notes!) sides of the samples were bonded at the molecular level. When the scientist she had given the samples to tried to construct a similar sample with film bonded in layers of the exact relative micron thickness, it took him four weeks, the materials did not hold together well, and he couldn't get the Molybdenum to assume the same dark shade that it had in the samples. The samples had some unusual properties when electricity was applied - they jumped like a Mexican jumping bean (captured on video). She stated that his preliminary theory was that they had been bonded under very high temperatures. At that time (May) he was about to being a series of experiments with magnetic fields. Can't wait to hear her present the new results at the Roswell conference - anyone have any updates on this research? Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 21 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:08:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:22:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. John Ratcliff has restored my sanity. > From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. > > I found the reference in Corso's book regarding 6 fingered aliens. > It's > on page 78, about paragraph 3, in reference to tabloid reports of > aliens > it says: > "And when reporters were actually given truthful descriptions of > alien > encounters, they either fell on the floor lauging or sold the story > to > the tabloids, who'd print a drawing of a large-headed, almond-eyed, > six-fingered alien. Again, everybody laughed. But that's what > these > things really look like because I saw the one they trucked up to > Wright > Field." > If you are going to make a myth I don't know how plus or minus a > few > fingers really matters that much anyway. Thanks, John. Now I can trust my memory again. On page 32, Corso says he saw a four-fingered alien. On page 78, he says it had six fingers. Can't wait for some interviewer who read the book carefully to ask Corso or his ghostwriter about this little detail. Does it matter? Sure. It makes the book even more delectable. You're gonna tell a fairy tale, fine, but shouldn't you read your manuscript once or twice before you publish it? And talk about cynicism....Pocket Books bills this as "The truth exposed after fifty years!" but -- it's fair to guess -- rushed it to the printers without any editing. Greg Sandow
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:30:40 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:36:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:41:36 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate:Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many > fingers? >> From: DRudiak@aol.com >> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:29:11 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many fingers? >> What I find interesting about this conversion is that Sarbacher was >> describing what we now call nanotechnology, which is currently in >> its infancy. Go to the NASA Web page and start browsing around. The >> promise of nanotechnology, according to scientists working on it, is >> the development of lightweight materials with superstrength, hardness, >> and heat resistance. >> When you assemble materials on an atom by atom basis, you can >> eliminate the macroscopic flaws of ordinary materials that limit their >> strength. Computer quantum mechanical modeling predicts increases in >> strength on the order of 70 to 80 times over today's best materials. >> For example, a projected diamond/titanium composite would have unheard >> of strength and heat resistance. It would be harder than ordinary >> diamond, meaning you couldn't scratch or drill it with diamond tools. >Actually, I wonder why no one has brought this up lately. Attended MD >MUFON conference early May and Linda Howe presented her evidence about >the debris that had been sent to Art Bell (from the grandson of an >individual who was allegedly a member of the "cleanup crew" & lifted >some samples from the site). Evidently the Molybdenum/Magnesium (hope I >am repeating this combination correctly from memory - apologies, cannot >find my notes!) sides of the samples were bonded at the molecular >level. Hi Melanie, I made notes from the Art Bell program of that night for my newsletter. It was a stratified magnesium/zinc and bismuth material. Here is the report. ************************************************************** A R T ' S P A R T S ************************************************************** On May 6, UFO researcher and journalist Linda Moulton Howe talked on Art Bell's radio show 'Coast to Coast' about her research into the materials that have become known as Art's parts. Art's parts are strange materials that were brought to Art Bell by a man from South Carolina. He stated they are parts of an alien spaceship that crashed near Roswell in 1947, between White Sands and Socorro, New Mexico. The object was not a disk but had a wedge shape. His grandfather had gathered the materials as a member of a military security team and given them to him before he died in 1974. The parts are allegedly of the exterior of the craft. During first analysis last year under a Scanning Electron Microscope the parts turned out to be a layered material. The layering consisted of layers of 1-4 microns bismuth, alternated with layers of 100-200 microns of almost pure magnesium. The samples have a total of 25 layers. The bismuth is 100 percent pure, the magnesium-zinc is 97.6 percent magnesium and 2.4 zinc. Bismuth is an element one point higher on the periodic table than lead. A human blood cell is 7 microns in diameter. Linda has interviewed 100 metallurgic experts from industrial companies like Dow Chemical, scientific institutes and aerospace and defense companies. They all said they had never heard of such a material, never seen anything like it and don't understand its purpose. - 1 of 11 - - UFOPals - Linda Moulton went on to write letters to various agencies like CIA and National Science Foundation (NSF) to get information about this material under the Freedom Of Information Act. The NSF is the organization that distributes government funds for scientific research in the USA. A scientist at the division of materials research of the NSF has replied that he was unaware of any research into related materials that was funded by this organization. A computer search in the databases of the NSF on materials that consist of bismuth, magnesium and zinc resulted in zero hits. Subsequently Linda was contacted by physicist Travis Taylor of Redstone Army Arsenal. He did a search in computer databases that are not necessarily accessable to the public. He found no data on the material. The layered material was thereafter brought to Carnegie Institute in Washington for further study. When it was held in an electro- static field with the bismuth side up, nothing happened. When the bismuth side was down. there was motion and action by the material not like known materials. After adding radio frequency signals it appeared that the direction of the motion of the material could be influenced. Linda compares the data on the material to the "MJ 12 training manual". (MJ 12 is a group of scientists and military people that were allegedly appointed by former US president Harry Truman to study the UFO phenomenon). The manual states that initial analysis of crash debris showed that it was not composed of any materials known to terrestrial science. Linda has also received information from a CIA employee living in South Carolina who says he was involved in the back enginee- ring of alien technology in the early nineteen sixties. In that project the fiber optic technology that was found in the interior of the alien craft was studied and later used for future projects. Linda's original South Carolina source, who provided the materials, says that his grandfather had always assumed that the fiber optic technology found in the spaceship was later used in the current phone system. A scientist known to Linda has tried to reproduce the alloy of magnesium-zinc and pure bismuth in a laboratory environment. It took him a month to grow four layers, whereas the piece in Linda's possession is 25 layers. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:54:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:41:52 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings > Subject: ABC News-Peter Jennings > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 21:37:40 -0400 > From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> > To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> > Greetings List! > On June 18th, 1997, (Wednesday), in the last part of ABC News 6:30 PM > edition, there was a small bit about Roswell. There was also a small > segment about Phoenix. A video was shown of some large lights over the > city. Several witnesses were interviewed claiming they saw a large > triangular shaped craft fly over their house. Other researchers were > interviews as well, albiet briefly to fit into the sound bite/byte :-) . > The segment ended with Peter Jennings (who I respect) smirking. Hello Paul and List, Well now you gotta see where Jennings is coming from here. I mean literally. Jennings is a product of the old school Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)-and yes he is Canadian- which drew heavily on the BBC format for TV and radio (for years these guys read the radio news while dressed in a tux) and then he moved on to the Canadian Television network (CTV) then into the States. He probably still has this attitude that he is above it all, a carryover from his early days at the Corp. when and where this type of behavior was fostered. > I was just curious how the American's on the List view their news > media when such a vitally important subject is treated with such > (seeming) short shrift by the major networks. Watch closely for some (what I call) kickout phrases, attitudes or effects where just about any UFO report on the big networks is concerned. Jenning's smirk, a crack about pink elephants between anchors, quirky space music, too much floridation in the water supply, or there's a full moon tonight;are all ways with which the "anchor" disassociates him/herself from the material that they are uncomfortable with. If they look like they are buying into the UFO story then they are lowering themselves to the level of the masses and to guys like Peter its really breaking the aloofness code. I've yet to find a UFO story on the national news in either country delivered by a respected anchor where there wasn't one of these "kickout" clauses. >Surely there must be some hope? Naaah. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Corso's book From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:20:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:55:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:50:14 -0400 > Corso's book can be confusing. Bob Shell writes: > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book > > Greg did not read the Corso book > > carefully. I've now read it twice, and some sections multiple > > times. > > Nowhere does Corso say that alien technology lead to development of > > the transistor. He says that multitudes of oval , cracker-sized > > silicon wafers were found in the wreckage. Under magnification it > > was seen that the surface of these wafers was covered with > > microscopic > > circuits. In other words, integrated circuits on a silicon > > substrate, > > which is very different from the simple transistor. > I've had problems simply understanding what this book says. It's also > sometimes hard to find passages after I've read them. There's > something about the way the prose is organized....it's a swamp, and > details sink into it. > So about the transistor..... Big snip here to make a point and to keep EBK happy. > But you know..........the point of all this isn't who's right, Bob or > me, but how confusingly Corso's book is written. Despite all the w > ealth of alleged detail he seems to be conveying, some things remain > damnably unclear. Note that he makes no direct statement about the > transistor. You have to prod it out from the implications of his > words, and it's hardly a surprise that two readers would come to > different conclusions. Nor does he ever quite say how he moved from > speculation to certainty, on this subect! Apparently he speculated > when he first saw the recovered debris, and then talked to scientists > who filled in the story for him....but he never quite says that. The > narrative in this book is, simply, a mess. Hello Greg and List, It looks like we're going to have to come up with a term that defines UFO books or incidents that use dead people as witnesses; such as MJ-12 documents and Corso's book. Dennis Stacy makes a point when he says it looks like Corso had to wait until Gen. Trudeau died before he went ahead with 'The Day After Roswell'. In other circles the use of powerful names in books, letters or conversations is called name dropping, but those people are usually still alive. As for the use of company names like Bell Labs, if the company denies it then it is more fuel for the conspiracy argument, which can actually bolster the writer's argument. "Me thinks he doth protest too much...", or in other words, they're trying to hide something. From what I've been reading about TDAR I'm sure this book is a setup. But you know...I still want to read the damn thing. Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Crash 'Dummies' From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:45:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:58:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Crash 'Dummies' The latest government authorized Roswell tale is so strangely unbelievable that we may begin to consider whether the official show is directed by human beings. Dummies. Apparently that is what they think we are. Fasten your seat-belts. There is yet more swamp gas to digest. "If you want to keep costs down, would you go to the trouble of having eyebrows and wigs put on the dummies?" said Klass. How can an intelligent person respond to un-truths that are so hopelessly stupid? Anger, frustration, laughter. It is not the makings of a constructive relationship. "Rot it from the core." - Machiavelli. Mull this over. Why does the Air Force feel any obligation to say any thing at all about the bodies? Who initiated this idiocy? Regards, Robert Stirniman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 UFO Groups in Asia? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:40:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:01:34 -0400 Subject: UFO Groups in Asia? Dear colleagues, A journalist colleague of mine is looking for UFO sightings/UFO groups in Asai, especialli in China and Japan. Could anyone please recommend a web site that deals with the above or e-mail addesses of UFO researchers/groups in the relevant countries. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:45 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:55:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:18:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >> Another piece of required reading is >> Amit Goswami's _The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates >> Reality_. >> Reality ain't what it used to be!!> >Minor correction -- reality stays the same, our views of it change if we >evolve. Jim, You know, I'm not so sure that is true. This implies that there is an "absolute" reality somewhere independent of the observer, and I think research in quantum physics has pretty much disproved that. The "observer effect" would indicate that reality is determined in large part by the expectations of the observer. Now the really important question: who is the observer? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:43 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:57:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:18:43 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. Dennis, Let's wait a bit on Corso. The book has just come out. Karl Pflock has endorsed Corso, as have all the military sources I am in touch with. The book reads like total claptrap, for sure, but we need to find out what this man is all about. His announced appearance on Nightline on Friday did not happen, and we were treated to deformed frogs instead. He's supposed to be on Dateline NBC on Tuesday, so let's see if the turns up. Meanwhile I'm still working on setting up an interview via an old intelligence contact of mine. The whole Roswell story is so bizarre that I think it is premature to discard Corso just because his tale does not fit the current urban mythology of what happened at Roswell. Corso's book is probably the nonsense it reads like, but let's give it some time and some air and see what happens. We must not be so mentally inflexible that we throw things out automatically just because they do not fit our preconceived notions. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 25 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:01:02 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 25 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 25 June 22, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOs SIGHTED IN NORTHERN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND MAINE On Tuesday, June 3, a woman spied a UFO in the sky near Berlin, New Hampshire (N.H.), a city just below the USA/Canada border (population 13,084). The woman "noticed strange lights and movements in the sky. She saw a sphere and a second object in the shape of an arrow. The sphere had bright green and red lights. The witness called her son and husband to come and look. They grabbed a pair of binoculars to obtain a closer look. The two UFOs would move apart and then together, leaving a trail of white lights. The sphere appeared to be spinning." This is the second round of UFO sightings in northern New Hampshire this year. The Berlin area experienced a flap during January and February. This case was investigated by Sandra Black of MUFON New Hampshire. (See the Berlin, N.H. Reporter for June 4, 1997. Many thanks to Independent Research Network UFO News for sending us this story.) On Monday, June 16, 1997, at 11:05 p.m., MUFON investigators Sandra Black and Barbara Emond sighted a UFO over Stewartstown, N.H., a town on the border 60 miles (96 kilometers) northwest of Berlin. The investigators saw the mysterious lights "from different locations several miles apart. They observed strange moving white and red lights near Stewartstown...It looked like one of the lights went on top of the other, brightened and dimmed, then moved slowly east to west over the house. A third witness who was apparently closer claimed she saw a large round craft with numerous lights passing over the area." This case is also being investigated by Sandra Black. (See Filer's Files Week #24, page 1. Many thanks to George A. Filer of MUFON for forwarding this news story.) On Friday night, June 13, 1997, at 10:30 p.m., Kathy M., her mother and her two children were camping in a remote rural area in northern Maine. Their trailer was about 50 miles (80 kilometers) north of Greenville Junction, Maine (population 600), near Lily Bay Road off Route 15. "My mother decided to look outside to see if there were any stars out. It had been raining," Kathy reported. "She went out and then called me to come look at this thing flying overhead. It was flaring bright white, about three times the size of satellite. It was followed by a second object. They crossed from horizon to horizon in six seconds (a speed of 2,400 miles per hour--J.T.) and would flare bright white and then fade to white. About 30 seconds after they disappeared, we saw a pair of jets following the same path." "The next night, Saturday the (June) 14th, around the same time, we again saw the objects fly overhead. One of the lights changed direction, from traveling north, to west. They were followed by one jet that time." (Email Interview) UFO HOVERS OVER SOUTHWEST MISSOURI DURING A STORM On Monday, June 16, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., a couple in Ozark, Missouri (population 2,980), seven miles south of Springfield, observed a strange UFO for 45 minutes. The object remained stationary among roiling thunderclouds in the sky south of their home. "My wife and I were sitting on the front porch watching the lightning in the clouds when our attention was drawn to four white lights in a diamond-shaped pattern," Mr. G. said. "The lights were moving slowly clockwise and being drawn in towards the middle when suddenly a pale green lights would appear. The white lights would move back outward and repeat this same step over and over." Mr. and Mrs. G. were prepared to watch the hovering UFO all night, "but the clouds thickened and it disappeared from view." (Many thanks to Brian T. Adams of the Ozark Area Research Group for this story.) DAYLIGHT UFO SPOTTED IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD On Tuesday, June 10, 1997, at 5:30 p.m., Mr. S.L. was at the corner of Chandler and Vineland Avenue in North Hollywood, California when he noticed "one object moving slowly in a straight line from the south. It seemed to go about as fast as a satellite. It stopped halfway across the horizon and was fairly motionless for about two or three minutes." "While this one stood still," Mr. S.L. added, "another object appeared near the moon, at least that's when I noticed it. It also resembled a star but was red. Extreme RED. It moved in a straight line slowly for about a minute, then vanished. The white one then blurred, and looked like a short LINE for a few seconds, then began to move again at the same speed as before and continued (west) towards the sun until I couldn't look at it anymore." "I watched these things for about 15 minutes. The red one was like watching a satellite at night, except that this was during the day, and no clouds in the sky. It was absolutely pure red and disappeared when, to my position, (it) was straight up overhead." (Email Interview) UFOs ACTIVE ON WISCONSIN'S LAKE MICHIGAN SHORE On Tuesday, June 10, 1997, at about 5 p.m., Rev. Billy Dee was driving home on Wisconsin's Door Peninsula, "leaving the outskirts of the city of Sturgeon Bay (population 8,847)." As he looked up "into the clear blue sky," Rev. Dee saw "a metallic object that was brightly illuminated by the sun but also threw off its own light. Although small, about the size of a small hen's egg, it was clear and vivid...It was the classic saucer shape craft...At first I thought it may be a small one-engine plane. But I soon gave up that thought, as I viewed the craft for over two minutes before it vanished. I can only describe it as what I saw was dazzling and beautiful, and mind- boggling." (Email Interview) On Saturday, June 14, 1997, at 3:45 p.m., William H. and his friend Julie were "sitting outside on our friends' porch" in the city of Milwaukee (population 636,212) when Julie spotted something strange in the sky over Lake Michigan. "Julie says, awestruck, 'Oh, my God, look at that!'" Mr. H. recalled. "At that point we both sprang from our chairs and stared at an erratic bright yellow/orange light doing crazy spirals. And then it slowed down a little and dropped out of the sky. What I want to know is if anybody else witnessed what we saw?" (Many thanks to Steve Wilson and Skywatch International for this report.) ARAB COLONEL SEES A UFO NEAR THE PERSIAN GULF Colonel Ali al-Sayed, chief of Civil Defence for the Persian Gulf nation of Dubai, "told a news conference recently that he and a group of friends at his farm in Hatta had seen an unidentified flying object streaking across the night sky. The star-like object disappeared in about ten seconds, leaving two bright arcs. These were green and blue with some brown tints and they moved horizontally at a steady pace for two minutes before disappearing the colonel claimed." (See Foreign Report: June 19, 1997, copyright 1997 by Jane's Information Group Limited. Many thanks to Erik S. for forwarding this news story.) UFO FOLLOWS POLICE CAR IN ARGENTINA The night of Saturday, June 14, 1997, three police officials drove out of Telen in Argentina's La Pampa province, heading for the nearby city of Victoria. Telen is 655 kilometers (585 miles) west of Buenos Aires, the national capital. In the car were subcommissioner Galician David, municipal officer Jose Corna and Sgt. Pilar Radel of the Telen police. As they drove out of town "an enormous light" descended from the sky and took up position behind their car. "It was a light, an enormous and ovoidal light, in a bright orange color and emitting a shaft of light that illuminated the car's windows and the trees along the highway," Sr. David reported. The UFO accompanied the car during the 13-kilometer (7-mile) drive to Victoria. The UFO flew east with them "in the direction of Victoria and, after that, it headed to the south and went into the hills," Sgt. Radel reported. The UFO did not interfere with the radio. The trio used the radio to get in touch with the police in Telen and in Santa Rosa, the provincial capital, 175 kilometers (105 miles) to the south, describing the UFO in detail as they drove along. (See the newspaper La Arena of Santa Rosa for June 17, 1997. Muchas gracias a Eduardo Castor Borgovoni para esta historia.) UFO CRASHES IN THE SEA NORTH OF GUYANA On Thursday night, June 12, 1997, Corey I. and his friend were hanging out at the sea-wall in Georgetown, the seaside capital of Guyana, a South American country just north of Brazil. "The night was very still and clear. There were no clouds in view, and there was little or no wind," Corey reported. "The craft approached from due north at an angle of about 130 degrees. When I first caught a glimpse of the craft, it was 2,500 feet up but descended at such a speed that it was only a matter of seconds before it dove into the ocean." The witnesses heard no sound, either from the UFO or the splashdown, which evidently occurred several miles offshore. (Email Interview) UFO APPEARS OVER WATER TREATMENT PLANT IN BRAZIL On Friday, June 6, 1997, at 5:40 a.m., Paulo da Costa Luz, 43, a truck driver for the Saneamento Basico de Sao Paulo (SABESP) arrived for work at the SABESP water treatment plant in Registro, a city 200 kilometers (120 miles) south of Sao Paulo. Pulling up to the gate, Costa Luz spotted a UFO sitting on the ground beside the plant. He described the object as circular "with lights that moved, lights in many colors--silver, yellow and blue." The UFO took off and hovered above the plant, where it was soon joined by a second object "of the size of an automobile, and they shown with silver, yellow and blue lights. Another SABESP worker, Luciano Sergio Domingos, 28, also saw "a yellow light" hovering above the plant and had the object "in view for at least eight minutes." Earlier that morning, Ademir Jose Pereira, 21, saw "a great ball of fire, blue, at a height of 100 meters (330 feet)" above his neighborhood of Sao Mateus in Registro, S.P. On Sunday night, June 8, 1997, in Regis Bittencourt, a village near Registro, two women, Emilia Kimura, 28, and Gracilda Mendes, 39, "saw a red, very luminous ball, flying in the sky." The red sphere split in two, and both halves flew away in opposite directions before disappearing. On Wednesday, June 18, 1997, a UFO shaped like "uma bola de futbol de salao" (a soccer ball) appeared in the sky over Sobradinho, D.F., one of the "cidades satelites" (suburbs) of Brasilia, the national capital. The UFO hovered for several minutes over a hospital which was no identified in the Rede Globo TV report. This case is being investigated by Brazilian ufologist Roberto Beck. (See the newspaper Correio Braziliense for June 6, 1997. Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha e Eduardo Castor Borgovoni para eses informacoes.) ORANGE LIGHTS SEEN OFTEN IN QUEENSLAND Weird orange glows were seen in the skies over Australia's state of Queensland during April. On Monday, April 7, 1997, at 1:30 a.m., witnesses on the Queensland coast at Burleigh Heads sighted a skyborne "illumination changing from red to blue" in the southwest sky heading south. On Saturday, April 19, 1997, at 10:30 p.m., witnesses on the Gold Coast north of Brisbane "reported sighting 12 moving orange lights heading to the east. The orange lights travelled straight and level, spread over a distance of three or four football grounds." On Tuesday, April 22, 1997, at 8:40 p.m., some people in Brisbane sighted "a large blue-green illumination shooting straight into the ground north of Brisbane. The illumination appeared to be one-quarter the size of the moon." In addition, the city of Horsham, Victoria, 200 miles northwest of Melbourne, reported its second UFO on April 30, 1997. At approximately 9 p.m., several residents saw a "large, vertical cigar-shaped UFO, red orange in colour" passing overhead. There was no wind, and the UFO made no sound. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for these reports.) from the UFO Files... 1947: THE KENNETH ARNOLD UFO SIGHTING This week marks the 50th Anniversary of Kenneth Arnold's sighting of nine silvery crescent-shaped UFOs over Pendleton, Oregon. Here's a treat for you readers: the actual AP news story of the event from June 25, 1947. We hope you enjoy it. PENDLETON, Ore. -- (AP) -- Nine bright saucer- like objects flying at "incredible" speed at 10,000 feet altitude were reported here yesterday (June 24, 1947) by Kenneth Arnold, Boise, Idaho, pilot, who said he could not hazard a guess as to what they were. Arnold, a United States forest service employee engaged in a search for a missing plane said he sighted the mysterious objects Thursday at 3 p.m. They were flying between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams in Washington state, he said, and appeared to weave in and out of formation. Arnold said he clocked them and estimated their speed at 1,200 miles an hour. Inquiry at Yakima (Wash.) brought only blank stares, he said, but he added he talked with an unidentified man from Ukiah (California) south of here, who said he had seen similar objects over the mountains near Ukiah Tuesday (June 22, 1947). "It seems impossible," Arnold said, "but there it is." In Washington, the War Department said it had no information on the Oregon sky mystery. An Army spokesman expressed interest in any object which would fly at an estimated speed of 1,200 miles per hour, declaring, "As far as we know, nothing flies that fast except a V-2 rocket, which travels at about 3,500 miles an hour--and that's too fast to be seen." (See the Duluth, Minnesota News-Tribune for June 25, 1947, "'Flying Saucers,' Up in Air 10,000 Feet, Puzzle Pilot," page 3.) FUN UFO WEBSITES Last week, CNN Headline News ran video footage taken of a dinosaur-sized reddish-brown reptile 20 meters (67 feet) long swimming around in Lake Van in northern Turkey. If you'd like to see "Vanna" the lake monster, check out this URL...http://cnn.com/ WORLD/9706/fringe/turkey.monster Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, at this URL: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be accessed and downloaded from our website at this URL: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ Well, so much for our plans for a nice, quiet, peaceful 50th Anniversary of the 1947 UFO flap and the Roswell incident! It looks as if the UFOs are popping up all over the globe, just in time for the celebration. Join us next week for more saucer news and continuing coverage of the 50th Anniversary, from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news stories from UFO ROUNDUP at their websites and in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Lights over Phoenix From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:05:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:06:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Lights over Phoenix > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Lights over Phoenix > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:59:19 -0400 >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:57:27 GMT >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> >Subject: Lights over Phoenix >Hi folks, please check out the AP wire copy, below, on what >Gov. Symington of Arizona thinks of the unidentified lights >seen last March. >---------------------------------- >Received this while working today at home radio station WBAI NY. > >Governor's alien probe is one for the 'J-files', as in joke Paul Davenport hit the nail on the head with this title pick! What is not quite so funny is the governors attempt to trivialize an event that should be investigated in earnest, and by the best minds and experts available! >"We're going to get to the bottom of it", Symington said during a >lunch break Thursday from his federal fraud trial. Will watch for the verdict on this "fraud trial" with interest! <G> > In came the alien, a glittery pink and silver one >with a big head and big googly eyes. Underneath the costume was >Symington's chief of staff, Jay Heiler. God, how humiliating that must have been for Heiler. Unless the guy is a "Smithers" type! <G> I don't give much for his bosses character based on his low regard for the dignity of his staff members. The (voters) in Phoenix (along with the rest of us) must be terribly angry and disappointed with Symingtons handling of this whole affair. On top of which, he also demonstrated a "Nixonian" disregard and contempt for the members of the local press community. Those guys must have been more than a little pissed to have their valuable time wasted this way. I'd love to get Symington over a chess board, he's not much of a 'tactician'! >"This just goes to show you guys are entirely too serious," >Symington said as aides laughed heartly. They'll all be crying come next election! This is just too serious and involves too many witnesses to be so easily swept under the rug, or dismissed out of hand. These clowns are playing with dynamite, no, scratch that, make it C-4! It could all blow up in there big grinning faces. Then, how will they justify their attitudes and behavior? I'm NOT implying that it is,...but how do these bufoons know that the demonstration over Phoenix is not a prelude to some "Independence Day" style activity on the part of the "unknowns"! Hmmmm? >On the evening of March 23, many people in the Phoenix area >and as far north as Prescott reported seeing the lights. The >Federal Avaition Adminsitration reported nothing unusual on >its screens. The language here is deceptive. More accurate would have been, "in spite of a report from an experienced commercial airline pilot that he had made (visual contact) with the unknown, and had formally requested confirmation from the tower personel at Phoenix airport, nothing was seen or recorded on airport radar! My revised (and more accurate) statement raises serious security and safety questions, not to mention a mystery. (No radar image for a visual confirm!?) The FAA version does not. Its wording dismisses and glosses the event over. It does not report all relevant facts. (Christ, I hate the yuppie/lawyer double-speak that is all the rage among beuraucrats. Nobody ever says what they mean anymore! It would be really neat if they would learn to communicate in the primary language of the 'majority' in this country,...plain English! ) >This week ,various media outlets have run stories on the lights. The really sad part is, it's all about cashing in on the ratings points that UFO and alien related stories are delivering nowadays! Truth, journalism, serving the public,...nah! "How's your hair and make-up Mr Jennings? Now, (that's) high on the priority list! "When will they ever learn,... when will they ever learn." (Blowin in the wind) Pete Seager John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:51:02 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:08:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: 19 Jun 97 21:03:00 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO conversat ion >I SAW the video in San Marino, and I HEARD the astronaut say that. >Now we need to know if the video is legit. My bet is the video was doctored. Having been an insider as a NASA space shuttl e engineer for 10 years, I know astronauts do NOT say "UFO". Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: UFO*BC-Updates From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:22:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:12:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO*BC-Updates Check out the latest: Ice Circles, McDonalds Visit, Williams Lake Case and more. Find out what's happening in British Columbia. http://www.ufobc.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Historical British Columbia Sightings From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:26:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:14:58 -0400 Subject: Historical British Columbia Sightings HISTORICAL SIGHTINGS .....Visit our site at http://www.ufobc.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OLD - The Nootka Man 1897 - Airships in BC 1908 - Angel Hair in 1908 1937 - Photo Taken of UFO Over Vancouver City Hall 1947 - Fraser Valley UFO 1947 - Three "Spaceships" Seen 1950 - Revelstoke 1952 - The Department of Transport Reports 1952 - Underwater UFO 1952 - Mystery Object Lights Sky 1954 - Jingle Bells 1957 - Japanese Freighter [1962?] "Sasquatch Ship" Sighted 1962 - Panic at a Baseball Game 1965 - Saucers Visit Phenomena Meet 1965 - Things Sighted Over City 1966 - Girl Terrified by UFO 1967 - Royal City UFO 1967 - Object Follows Power Lines 1970 - Occupants Seen at Cowichan Hospital 1974 - Port Coquitlam Landing/Trace Case 1974 - David Knutsen UFO Photo 1974 - Out of this World 1974 - Cypress Bowl Landing Case 1975 - Military Sighting 1975 - Humanoids Over West 1975 -Time Lost In Playground Of The Gods 1976 - RCMP Witness Silenced 1976 - Why The Sick Or Dead? 1977 - Flying Alligator Skin? 1977 - Agassiz Sighting 1979 - Mud Bay Sighting 1981 - Hannah McRoberts Photo Case 1984 - Report From Kamloops 1986 - "Observing Eye" 1988 - Gold River Case 1992 - North Shore Policeman's Sighting 1992 - Report From Williams Lake 1993 - Triangle Over Mission 1994 - Capitol City Sighting 1995 - Kevin McCarthy Sighting - A Triple Header 1995 - The Guildford Video
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 UFO*BC - Out Of This World From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:31:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:15:51 -0400 Subject: UFO*BC - Out Of This World Visit UFO*BC at http://www.ufobc.org "SOMETHING OUT OF THIS WORLD" By Graham Conway=20 (In September of this year (1975) a member of the Meteor Research=20 Society in New York City sent me a Photostat of a letter he had received=20 from Surrey, BC which adjoins Delta where I live. The letter was=20 lengthy, detailed and carried sketches of a UFO observed in Surrey. For=20 a variety of reasons that will become apparent, I, along with Brian=20 Fewster, visited the writer and completed a 45-minute tape that=20 described the sighting.)=20 On October 31, 1974 John Waidner and his wife Rosa left their home in=20 Surrey, BC. The time was 6:50 PM and the evening was damp and misty. =A0It= =20 had rained most of the day, but was fine as they drove north along the=20 highway to New Westminster where they intended to play Bingo.=20 After five minutes driving, Rosa, who was in the front passenger seat of=20 their station wagon, noticed a very large bright light approaching them=20 from the west. Traveling slowly, it appeared to be about two hundred=20 feet above the trees, . . . "a BIG light" . . . "a GIANT star" . . . a=20 "bluish sparkling light", said Rosa who was in a better position to=20 observe it than her husband who was driving.=20 "John, do you see it?"=20 "Ya, I see it."=20 "Do you know what that is?"=20 "No."=20 "That's a flying saucer . . . look at it John, look at it!"=20 Slowing down to about 25 mph John carefully studied the craft that was=20 approaching from his left. A large halo of light, it dazzled the eyes=20 and made viewing of further detail impossible. The light was well below=20 cloud level and had the intensity of a blow torch, also being similar in=20 color. =A0"Nothing on this earth has a light like that." Rosa added.=20 The object also seemed to slow down and they had the feeling of being=20 observed. =A0Still traveling slowly, they detected no apparent=20 malfunctioning of their car. =A0Suddenly, "whoosh" from a gliding motion=20 the object made a 90-degree turn and zoomed off, still at the same=20 level. "Whoosh," another 90-degree turn. Several times it zigzagged east=20 and west but never crossed the road in front of them. During this=20 display the object was below the trees on their left as they continued=20 to drive down the highway, still maintaining the new steady 20 mph.=20 By now, however, a change had taken place in the light's color. =A0It=20 appeared as a reddish orange ball that reflected off the clouds and=20 conveyed the impression of a burning house. Having traveled about a mile=20 the Waidners had reached a wide intersection in the highway, just as the=20 object returned. =A0Across the street from them a small group of children=20 were busily engaged in burning "sparklers". It was of course Halloween=20 night and, happily engaged, they seemed totally oblivious of the large=20 object that had now come to a halt almost overhead. Mrs. Waidner felt=20 the occupants of the object were curious about the children's=20 activities.=20 Remaining stationary for a few seconds, both John and Rosa made the most=20 of the time to study the craft. It was less than 100 yards away and=20 about 200-300 feet up, and they could see through the red halo as the=20 bright light "had been swung away" from them. Like a large hamburger=20 bun, the color of "dirty brass" it had a base of about 25 feet, then an=20 outer flange. The diameter of the body of the craft, they feel, was 30=20 feet. =A0A "belt" of square-shaped windows circled the object; two feet=20 square they appeared to have raised edges. From these windows came the=20 reddish orange light that now radiated from around the craft in a "sort=20 of fog." =A0From the base of the craft another belt of smaller lights=20 twinkled in sequence, blue, green, yellow. The belt of windows at the=20 top had at this point no lights shining from it. Rosa estimated the=20 object "was the height of two tall men." At this point they had pulled=20 over to the shoulder of the road and stopped the car although the motor=20 was still running. =A0It was here that John, who up to then admitted to=20 being a hardened skeptic, verbally conceded. . . "that is something out=20 of this world" . . . a statement that provided his wife with much=20 visible satisfaction.=20 Slowly moving away again, the Waidners drove down the highway parallel=20 to the UFO on their left. =A0A mile further on it headed southeast and=20 left them behind. =A0The total sighting time was 8-10 minutes.=20 In November Mrs. Waidner wrote to the Vancouver Sun and her letter was=20 printed. =A0A witness in Burnaby replied claiming that he saw a similar=20 object the same night.=20 COMMENTARY=20 This case has some additional noteworthy aspects that should be=20 examined.=20 1. This sighting took place only 14 days after David Knutsen of nearby=20 Whalley photographed a flying circular object.=20 2. It occurred less than two air miles from where David took his=20 picture.=20 3. The object described in this report was seen less than five air miles=20 from the Port Coquitlam sandpit landing that took place in August of the=20 same year.=20 4. A common denominator, be it coincidence?, is that young children were=20 present in all three cases.=20 5. The region in which this sighting of the Waidners took place was in=20 the immediate vicinity of an extensive cross country power grid system.=20 =A0The object was close to, and apparently at times traveling over or=20 alongside the pyramid towers which all center on a large sub station,=20 one mile west of where the Waidners observed this craft.=20 6. I have become increasingly aware of much activity that apparently=20 centers on a strip that borders Surrey and North Delta. This zone is=20 about 15 miles long, runs north to south (as far as the US border) and=20 is two miles wide. The grid system runs up the center, centralizes at=20 the transformer station, then branches into an east-west direction.=20 7. In November, 1975, I placed an advertisement in a small local paper=20 seeking witnesses to the David Knutsen sighting. Although I received no=20 direct confirmation of what I was seeking, 16 phone calls within four=20 days described lights and objects seen by observers, many that took=20 place in the specific area of intense activity.=20 8. In May, 1975, a 17 year-old boy told me he had watched a silvery=20 coloured highly reflective object, at four o'clock one sunny afternoon,=20 for a period of five minutes. It remained stationary, then took off at=20 high speed. This observation took place on the eastern perimeter of this=20 strip and less than one-half air mile from David Knutsen's home.=20 9. Mrs. Waidner sent her detailed letter and sketches to New York on=20 August 8 this year. On August 19 the National Enquirer published a=20 double-paged story of a film in making that re-enacts the Betty and=20 Barney Hill abduction. The Enquirer photo has a mock up of the craft the=20 Hills described. To Mrs. Waidner's astonishment she noted that the=20 object she and her husband witnessed was almost identical, the only=20 discrepancy being that the flange on the Hill's craft was larger than=20 the one they observed. The Enquirer picture displayed a "landing=20 platform" that was possibly retractable and certainly was not visible to=20 the Waidners.=20 10. Another and final unusual point of the Waidner sighting was that=20 during the whole time they watched the UFO they were NOT AWARE of=20 another car driving past in either direction! John recalled seeing car=20 lights "in the distance". This is a very busy highway at any time of day=20 or night as it links up with the US border. Yet at 7 PM they never saw=20 another car for a period of ten minutes over a distance of two miles. =A0I= =20 personally find this hard to believe and wonder if this "scene" was=20 staged just for them, as if a memory lapse was again induced.=20 (Mrs. Rosa Waidner is a nurse by profession. She is eloquent and has an=20 impressive eye for detail. Even one year after the event, when relating=20 the circumstances, the excitement of that evening came through very=20 forcefully as she recounted the details on tape.)=20 Also read the Vancouver Sun article by Tom Zytaruk. =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 'Woodstock' From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:38:23 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:18:51 -0400 Subject: 'Woodstock' Hi List, I publish a UFO newsletter every week and have included a commentary about the Roswell events. ************************************************************** WOODSTOCK ************************************************************** A few weeks from now one of the strangest events in human history will take place: Encounters '97. From July 1 to July 7, about a hundred thousand people from all over the world will gather at Roswell, a small town in the US state of New Mexico. Why? Because they think that fifty years ago an otherworldy spacecraft crashed there, probably some alien bodies were found and the US government is covering up all the evidence. One of the prime researchers, Stanton Friedman, has coined the term 'Cosmic Watergate' to indicate the magnitude of the scandal. Whether they are right or not, to me the most curious thing about the whole event is that among those who are going there are many who think that the alleged crash near Roswell is the best evidence for the existence of UFOs as extraterrestrial spacecraft and that when the truth about this event is finally out the world will have learnt one of the biggest secrets in history. Frankly, I will be glad when it's over. Why? Because the happenings at Roswell are nothing more than a cult event, comparable to Woodstock in 1968. Is it coincidence that almost simultaneously on July 18 in Berlin there will be an event called 'Love Parade - a crusade for love and peace', which has nothing to do with UFOs, but where a stunning million people are expected to assemble and dance happily throughout the night? Apparently the time and the season are ripe for such mass events where likeminded people from all over the world come together and have fun. - 1 of 9 - - UFOPals - How it came about that the attention of those who are interested in the UFO phenomenon focused so much on Roswell is a mystery by itself to me. Long before anybody had ever heard of 'The Roswell Incident' there had appeared reports in newspapers about visual- radar observations of UFOs above the US capital of Washington DC (early nineteen fifties), the abduction of the Hill couple by aliens (early nineteen sixties), project Blue Book (the 'final' explanation by the USAF of UFOs, 1969) and even Budd Hopkins' book 'Missing Time' (1981), which also dealt with alien abducti- ons. Official investigation Somewhere in 1978 UFO researcher Stanton Friedman was killing some time before the start of a radio show in which he would be interviewed and it was then that he heard for the first time of a certain Jesse Marcel, former intelligence officer of Roswell Army Air Field. Marcel, Friedman was told, was a witness to the retrieval of crash debris of a flying saucer in July 1947. The rest is history: Stan Friedman wrote a book, William Moore wrote a book, Kevin Randle wrote a book. They went on tv, began touring around the world giving lectures and soon tv crews descended upon Roswell to interview the witnesses. But it didn't stop there. Stan wrote another book, Kevin wrote another book and a certain Bob Lazar claimed he had been at Area 51 working on the propulsion system of a captured flying saucer. Somewhat later a tape of an alien autopsy surfaced. In the end Roswell was fueling a whole industry of UFO and UFO related material. About five years ago so many people had heard about the Roswell mystery that politicians began to take notice. New Mexico Congressman Steven Schiff and California Congresswoman Dianne Feinstein ordered the US Government Accounting Office (GAO) to investigate into the matter and let the truth about Roswell come out. Well, the truth was that a top secret balloon had crashed that was supposed to spy on the Soviets for nuclear explosions. At least, that is what the US Air Force concluded, that had previously maintained that it must have been a weather balloon. The GAO accepted the conclusion and that was that. But wait, said UFO researchers. Many key witnesses had not been interviewed, files were missing, testimonies were contradicting. In other words, either the Air Force did not know where to look for the crashed saucer or it was covering the whole thing up. 'Mr. President, I hereby present to you...' With the 50th anniversary of the event in sight the pace of activity accelerated. Attribute it to the end of the millennium or to the gradual build up of awareness to the existence of UFOs, but in recent years the number of books, tv-series, documentaries and films about UFOs has gone through the roof. Never before have there been so much speculation, so much interest and so many new revelations and misinformation in such a short period of time. Awareness of the UFO phenomenon among the public has risen dramatically. A recent CNN/Time poll revealed that at this moment a whopping eighty percent of Americans believe that their government knows more about the UFO phenomenon than it admits. Eighty percent! That is eight out of every ten Americans. - 2 of 9 - - UFOPals - A related development is an initiative to ask US president Bill Clinton to disclose all UFO related government information to end the 'cover up'. The International Roswell Initiative (IRI), that manages the effort, went gathering tens of thousands of signatu- res from all over the world to support the appeal for disclosure and a petition will be presented to the president during the Roswell festivities in July. Then in a dramatic development, Kent Jeffrey, member of IRI and its US spokesman, suddenly changed his mind about Roswell and stated publicly that there had been no saucer crash and the USAF was right all along. He had done some independent research and found no evidence whatsoever for the extraterrestrial explanati- on. What crashed there was a Mogul balloon, as the Air Force had said. Nonetheless, Jeffrey will shortly meet with president Clinton and hand over the petition. Last week, when Jeffrey presented his report to the public, the field of UFO researchers was taken aback for a few days by the compelling nature of his arguments. But then researcher Kevin Randle answered them point after point on the Internet discussion forum UFO Updates and the saucer crash theory came out swinging. At the same time the contents of a stunning new book have become known, written by Colonel Phillip Corso: 'The Day after Roswell'. Corso claims that a number of groundbreaking post-WW II inventi- ons were influenced by the leaking of extraterrestrial technology from US intelligence agencies into American laboratories and companies. According to Corso, the development of silicon wafers, integrated circuits, lasers, fiber optics and digital computers is heavily influenced by acquired alien technology from the Roswell saucer crash. At first glance an outrageous claim, because the development of these devices is well documented. However, Corso has served in the staff of former US General Trudeau and was an associate of Senator Strom Thurmond and has otherwise impeccable military credentials. In other words, the man is not your average fruitcake, but has a solid reputation. Cover your ass If someday it turns out that the US Air Force, CIA, NSA and other intelligence agencies have known far more about the UFO phenome- non than they publicly admit, it should be remembered that there may have been good reasons to keep things quiet. Not in the first place should we think of keeping the public in the dark for its own good, thereby avoiding mass panic. A far more down to earth explanation for the difficulties that private UFO researchers experience when trying to unearth official UFO information is to protect people's reputations and get on with normal work. - 3 of 9 - - UFOPals - I am convinced that no government employee would like to have the UFO problem on his plate. Because: what to make of it? What to say to the public? What explanations to provide when the press is calling? It was the bad treatment the American press gave its own air force in the mid nineteen sixties that led to the infamous project Blue Book, that ended all official USAF involvement with UFOs. After USAF scientific adviser J. Allen Hynek said 'swamp gas' as a preliminary explanation for an array of strange lights that was observed in the neighbourhood of a coeds' school, he was literally chastized by the media. The resulting project Blue Book was officially a scientific investi- gation into UFOs, but according to the participating scientists themselves it was nothing more than a public relations effort managed by the US Air Force to end confrontation with a hostile press and public. The conclusions were written in advance: UFOs were no threat and required no further investigation. That settled it for the Air Force, at least back then. The organization could concentrate on national defense, which was its reason for existing. If some dude called and asked about UFOs, the serving spokesperson could always refer to the conclusions that were reached in 1969. The purpose of Blue Book was not 'cover up', but 'cover your ass'. Skeptics now divided At the moment there are rougly three versions of the events that occured in July 1947 near Roswell, New Mexico. 1. Crashed alien craft. This is the conclusion of private researchers like Stanton Friedman, Kevin Randle and David Rudiak. 2. Crashed Mogul balloon. This was the USAF explanation of September 1994 after the investigation that was ordered by the General Accouting Office. The USAF has now changed its mind again, but Kent Jeffrey of IRI and a host of UFO skeptics and debunkers still cling to this explanation. 3. Crashed Fugo balloon. This is the latest USAF explanation, propagated by Captain Jim McAndrew who was one the co-writers of the previous USAF report. The new explanation is due to appear in a book that will be published at the end of this month by the General Printing Office. It will be interesting to see whether the private UFO debunkers and skeptics will remain in the Mogul camp or shift their positions following mother goose the US Air Force. Frankly, I can hardly wait to see them getting into each others' hairs to decide whether it was Mogul or Fugo. It would be great entertainment. /\ -------- / \ - 4 of 9 - - UFOPals - Reason to believe Now what? The recent pace of developments has been so fast that, at least for me, it is totally unclear what has really happened. I'd like to think a saucer crashed, but then again, I'd like to keep my sanity as well. When the Roswell events are over, we will have time to digest all the new information and see if we can make sense out of it. We can only hope that the balloonies and the saucies are ready to discuss the subject in as mature a way as possible and come to a final conclusion. If the conclusion would be that nothing extraterrestrial crashed near Roswell, I would not lose a minute sleep over it. As I said, I don't understand why Roswell is such a big deal to begin with. There are far more compelling and better documented cases than this one. In March 1990, the erratic behavior of a flying triangle was recorded by the radar tape of a Belgian F16. It made 40 G manoeuvers and passed the sound barrier without making a sonic boom. There is a document voluntarily released by the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) that describes a horrifying encounter in 1976 between Iranian F4 fighter jets and a mothers- hip UFO that releases two small craft that start to pursue the jets. Finally there is the testimony of Dr. Valery Dvuzhilni of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow who said in the recent Discovery Channel documentary 'UFOs: Down to Earth' that what crashed near Dalnegorsk in Siberia in 1984 was an extrater- restrial spaceship. Not on the basis of witness testimony, as in the case of Roswell, but on the basis of ten years of materials analysis of the retrieved debris. Just a few examples. For those who want to believe, there is enough reason to, with or without Roswell. HvdP If you want to subscribe to this free and weekly newsletter, mail me at hvdp@worldonline.nl __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: Andromeda0@aol.com [<bigger>Jared Anderson] Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:29:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:29:06 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings </bigger>Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:15:00 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:54:25 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <<dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC News-Peter Jennings >Watch closely for some (what I call) kickout phrases, attitudes or >effects where just about any UFO report on the big networks is >concerned. Jenning's smirk, a crack about pink elephants between >anchors, quirky space music, too much floridation in the water supply, >or there's a full moon tonight;are all ways with which the "anchor" >disassociates him/herself from the material that they are >uncomfortable with. If they look like they are buying into the UFO >story then they are lowering themselves to the level of the masses and >to guys like Peter its really breaking the aloofness code. >I've yet to find a UFO story on the national news in either country >delivered by a respected anchor where there wasn't one of these >"kickout" clauses. >>Surely there must be some hope? >Naaah. Interesting thing here Don. I have been paying very close attention to the way news reporters deliver UFO stories and I am happy to say that they are not always so biased towards the negative when they smirk. Case and point CNN reported a story recently about The Air Force's new position on the Roswell crash. David Goodinow opened the segment by saying the Air Force is developing new story to end the speculation "again". This kickout phrase as you call it was clearly suggesting that Goodinow was making light of the fact that this was now the Air Force's third explanation of the alleged events. The UFO stories I've seen covered by the folks over at CNN are a little less likely to inject that light-hearted disposition into their coverage as some of the other national networks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:32:50 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > From: yogi@iadfw.net [Bill Ralls] > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:59:22 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > Errol and All, > This may be old news, but I thought it interesting. If anyone has > additional information concerning this, I would appreciate hearing > about it. > Regards, > Bill Ralls > UFO World http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/ufo.html > ********************************************************************** > 'Aliens' were just dummies, U.S. says > 'Bodies' reportedly used to test chutes > SOURCE: Ft.Worth Star Telegram > By Bill Hendrick - Cox News Service > ATLANTA - Long accused by UFO buffs of covering up visits by weird- > looking beings from outer space, the Pentagon plans to issue a report > soon contending that alien-like bodies have fallen from the skies over > New Mexico: man-made dummies. > Rubbery, humanoid-shaped dummies with no body hair, ears or noses. What no hair, ears or noses, but apparently they made the dummys with eyes and lips, hands and feet!! This is getting interesting > According to the report, the dummies were part of secret tests on > high-altitude parachuting, plunging to the ground from giant balloons > in the 1940s and 1950s says Philip J. Klass, a scientist and author of > six books debunking UFOs as imaginary. > Pentagon spokeswoman Gloria Cales said Tuesday that the report will > be issued soon, that it contains "some surprises," but that there is > no evidence that UFOs have ever visited Earth. > Klass, 77, a longtime board member of the journal Skeptical Inquirer, > said he has seen a copy of the 248-page report, which includes about > 100 photographs. I would be interested in seeing the photos and so called project records of these so called super secret throw the dummy out of a balloon with a parachute on projects. My guess is their will be no photos showing bodies around Roswell, just stock photos shot by official photogs at various AF bases where testing took place. I would hope this report would be more useful in the UFO sense then the earlier Mogel report, like identifiying the flights which took the balloon laden with dummys over the Roswell crash areas, and what balloons malfunctioned/popped, which allowed the dummys from this secret project to fall on the desert. > He said the Air Force prepared it as a follow-up to a 1994 study in > which it conceded that the government lied in 1947 when it said a > weather balloon had crashed near Roswell, N.M., instead of a flying > saucer as announced by the Army. > On July 8,1947, the Army said a "flying disc" had been captured. But > later, after being examined by high-ranking officers at Carswell Air > Force Base in Fort Worth, the debris was identified as a weather > balloon. > The 1994 Air Force report said that what crashed in 1947 wasn't a > weather balloon, but a top-secret spying device to detect Soviet > nuclear blasts. > The just-completed report was prepared because UFO buffs complained > that the 1994 study did not address persistent claims that tiny alien > bodies were found after the crash, Klass said in an interview. > The new report will say the Air Force dropped human-like dummies to > test high-altitude parachute-recovery techniques, Klass said. Some > dummies were human size, but others were small - similar to > descriptions of alien creatures that have circulated for 50 years. According to a copy of the article on this these tests took place in 1957-59. So they want everybody to believe that a bunch of dummys fell out of the sky 10 years after Roswell happened, then in the 80s peoples memories got all mixed up and they merged the two stories. Stop and think about this for a minute. Where were you when Reagan got shot? Where were you when Kennedy got shot? Have you ever mixed up the two stories to something like this: Well some guy named John Hinckley Jr shot President Kennedy with a handgun at the 6th story window of the school book depository. This APPEARS to be what some want us to believe. > "The report will suggest that perhaps some of the alleged > recollections of alien spacecraft and ET bodies may stem from those > tests," Klass said. Using the words "suggest" sounds like no 'definitive proof' --which is what all seekers of the truth are after-- will in fact connect these dummys to Roswell. So if the dummys from balloons don't work, we can do a Fugo balloon report with Japanese engineers as the next theory. > Time magazine also reported Monday that the Air Force will reveal > that it used dummies, misidentified by UFO buffs as aliens. > UFO buffs have long accused the Air Force and the entire government > of covering up what it knows about UFOs. > The 1994 report was done at the request of Rep. Steven Schiff, R-N.M. > It was followed in 1995 by a report from the General Accounting Office > that said many dispatches about the Roswell crash had been lost.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Corso's book From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:35:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:36:58 -0400 > One last sortie into the wacky, wonderful world of Philp Corso: > > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Corso's book > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <James Easton's informative historical summary snipped for brevity> <three of Gregs paragraphs snipped for brevity> > All Corso seems to be saying is that the alien debris helped move the > engineering faster. As I've noted, his writing is monstrously > unclear, so you can sometimes read other implications into it. When > he says that the transistor was developed with uncanny speed, you > COULD conclude that the alien debris supplied conceptual, as well as > engineering, help. A thought also comes to mind about so called alien technology that some claim has been with us for several thousand years is only about 30-40 years more advanced then human kind created especially since the early 1900s? Doesn't say much about so called alien technological advancement. Kind of like when we were driving 1947 Jeeps the aliens visited us with a 1997 Jeep HumVee. > I don't think Corso means that. > (A pause. while I savor this peculiar feeling....as if I'm looking > for archeological proof that Peter Pan was real!) When you find Tinker Bell and the magical dust let me know. I always thought that the magic dust was the precursor to modern day jet fuel. :) Darn!! <rest snipped> Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: CNN On 'Dummy' Report From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:36:47 -0400 Subject: Re: CNN On 'Dummy' Report > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:48:18 +0200 > Subject: CNN On 'Dummy' Report > >From CNN's Website: <snip> > "Something happened here and it's probably the most credible UFO event > in the world," says Mayor Tom Jennings. "We've taken that and developed > it into a whole new industry -- tourism." Can't you see it now. Hurry, Hurry, Hurry, step right up. We have Aliens the move, aliens the hamburger, aliens the french frys, and aliens the plastic toys. Especially for your kids we have the latest kit from the Pentagon. Mogul balloons complete with foil like material and balsa wood strips with writing and without. Also different payloads for different storys. We have the dummy payload and the Fugo balloon payload, all complete with enough hot air and helium to float them up to Iowa. Hurry, Hurry Hurry.... :) cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:40:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: 21 Jun 97 10:55:20 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:42:05 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Dennis, >I want to once again address something which I looked into two years >ago, and reported at the time.. This powerful thunderstorm is a part >of modern mythology, and linked by some to the Roswell event. In >actual fact, there most likely was no such thunderstorm. >I interviewed climatologists in the area, and they in turn consulted >records for 1947, and there is no record of ANY thunderstorm in the >area for the time period of June and July of 1947. Now, admittedly >weather reporting was less sophisticated back then, but you would think >that a thunderstorm of such remarkable proportions would have been >reported or mentioned in the local media, and there is no mention in >any of the local/regional newspapers. Except that this storm was 75 miles northwest of Roswell and might not have been observed by anyone in Roswell. This is why you don't camp in an arroyo because while it is dry overhead, it can be raining 50 miles away. Flash floods are a real danger in this part of the world. No one said that the thunderstorm was remarkable, only that it existed. And I have one witness on tape talking about it. So don't give me that climatologist garbage. We have enough to worry about without someone claiming that the thunderstorm never happened because it wasn't reported in the newspaper. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 22 Re: Corso's book From: ufo1@juno.com (Jack P Sargeant) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:23:36 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:42:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's book KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES! Charlotte, NC 1:379/12 >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:20:42 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book >> From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book >> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:50:14 -0400 >> Corso's book can be confusing. Bob Shell writes: >> >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso's book >> > Greg did not read the Corso book >> > carefully. I've now read it twice, and some sections multiple >> > times. >> > Nowhere does Corso say that alien technology lead to development >of >> > the transistor. He says that multitudes of oval , cracker-sized >> > silicon wafers were found in the wreckage. Under magnification it >> > was seen that the surface of these wafers was covered with >> > microscopic >> > circuits. In other words, integrated circuits on a silicon >> > substrate, >> > which is very different from the simple transistor. Hello Don, I've been waiting for someone to comment on the silicon wafers, but since nobody has, I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. Back in those days there was a component known as a selenium rectifier the size of 4 soda crackers stacked one on top the other. They were used to convert AC into DC. Throughout the 40s and 50s, these were the solid-state equivalent to the 5U4 rectifier tube. In the late 60s, these were replaced by the small, silicon rectifier diode which remains in use even today. My knowledge of these selenium rectifiers may give my age away, but I worked with those components as a TV repairman during the Kennedy era. I'm not saying the "crackers" in the book are the same as what I've just described, but I thought I'd mention it just the same. Regards, Jack Jack Sargeant, moderator - FidoNet UFO echo. > >> I've had problems simply understanding what this book says. It's >also >> sometimes hard to find passages after I've read them. There's >> something about the way the prose is organized....it's a swamp, and >> details sink into it. > >> So about the transistor..... > >Big snip here to make a point and to keep EBK happy. > >> But you know..........the point of all this isn't who's right, Bob >or >> me, but how confusingly Corso's book is written. Despite all the w >> ealth of alleged detail he seems to be conveying, some things remain >> damnably unclear. Note that he makes no direct statement about the >> transistor. You have to prod it out from the implications of his >> words, and it's hardly a surprise that two readers would come to >> different conclusions. Nor does he ever quite say how he moved from >> speculation to certainty, on this subect! Apparently he speculated >> when he first saw the recovered debris, and then talked to >scientists >> who filled in the story for him....but he never quite says that. The >> narrative in this book is, simply, a mess. > >Hello Greg and List, > >It looks like we're going to have to come up with a term that defines >UFO books or incidents that use dead people as witnesses; such as >MJ-12 documents and Corso's book. Dennis Stacy makes a point when he >says it looks like Corso had to wait until Gen. Trudeau died before he > >went ahead with 'The Day After Roswell'. In other circles the use of >powerful names in books, letters or conversations is called name >dropping, but those people are usually still alive. > >As for the use of company names like Bell Labs, if the company denies >it then it is more fuel for the conspiracy argument, which can >actually bolster the writer's argument. "Me thinks he doth protest too > >much...", or in other words, they're trying to hide something. > >>From what I've been reading about TDAR I'm sure this book is a setup. > >But you know...I still want to read the damn thing. > >Regards, >Don Ledger > > > Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufo1 | dledger | gsandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 MUFON Ontario's June 25 General Meeting From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:15:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:15:24 -0400 Subject: MUFON Ontario's June 25 General Meeting MUFON Ontario's June 25 General Meeting 7:30pm 145 St. Clair Avenue West, Toronto �UFOS & ALIENS: A SKEPTIC'S PERSPECTIVE� Guest Speaker: Dr Michael De Robertis, Professor of Physics & Astronomy, York University, Member of the Executive of the Ontario Skeptics "The Ontario Skeptics are a group which encourages science education and critical thinking, particularly applied to paranormal phenomena." ____________________________ Tom Theofanous, Chair of MUFON Ontario will be speaking to the Ontario Skeptics the evening before, Tuesday, at 8:30pm. At the same address. We discovered, while setting up the sessions that both organisations use the same space on the last Tuesday and Wednesday of each month. [CUE: eerie music - 'Nee-nee nee nee, nee-nee.....'] ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: Crash 'Dummies' From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:06:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:34:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Crash 'Dummies' >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:45:39 -0700 >From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Crash Dummies Robert writes, >The latest government authorized Roswell tale is so >strangely unbelievable that we may begin to consider >whether the official show is directed by human beings. For the airforce to continue to offer updated and embellished explanations for 'Roswell' seems to me one of the strongest arguments (for) the case! And yes, the tactics are so 'out of it' that it could just as easily have come from someone unfamiliar with human 'common sense' or psychology! <G> > "Rot it from the core." - Machiavelli. These guys are not monuments of 'ethical tactics' that's for sure! <G> >Mull this over. Why does the Air Force feel any >obligation to say any thing at all about the bodies? >Who initiated this idiocy? The obvious answer would be, "an idiot!" <G> Given careful consideration, it becomes quite plain and obvious that these are the desperate acts of desperate men! One of the first reactions I had to the news of this report was, "Damn, the pressure must really be getting to these guys." It reeks of desperation, grasping at straws. If the report is any indication, the 'rats' are stirring in the walls! Why does the airforce feel the need to explain the bodies indeed!?! <EG> John Velez (Nobodys fool)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: Crash 'Dummies' From: stenger@spindle.net (stenger@spindle.net) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:38:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:46:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Crash 'Dummies' >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:45:39 -0700 >From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Crash Dummies >The latest government authorized Roswell tale is so >strangely unbelievable that we may begin to consider >whether the official show is directed by human beings. >Dummies. Apparently that is what they think we are. >Fasten your seat-belts. There is yet more swamp gas >to digest. >"If you want to keep costs down, would you go to >the trouble of having eyebrows and wigs put on the >dummies?" said Klass. >How can an intelligent person respond to un-truths >that are so hopelessly stupid? Anger, frustration, >laughter. It is not the makings of a constructive >relationship. > "Rot it from the core." - Machiavelli. >Mull this over. Why does the Air Force feel any >obligation to say any thing at all about the bodies? >Who initiated this idiocy? >Regards, >Robert Stirniman I think somebody has been reading about Abe Lincoln. He once quoted someone who said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." So, you tell one inane lie after another, and see what happens. I guess they think they might get lucky. Think again, guys. Best wishes, Sharolyn Stenger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 CNN Gersten Program Cancelled From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:45:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:49:06 -0400 Subject: CNN Gersten Program Cancelled Just received this from Skywatch: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: SZAPIROCNN@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:00:41 -0400 (EDT) To: image_one@earthlink.net Cc: skywatch@phoenix.net Subject: June 24, 1997 Program I want to thank the over two dozen people who were kind enough to reply to my message regarding my live broadcast from Phoenix scheduled for June 24. I regret to inform you that due to network concern for the `safety of the public' the program will not be broadcast. This morning, at a staff meeting, my producer and attorneys from the legal department decided it would not be in the best interests of the network to publicize the `Ultimate Secret' and in particular the kidnapping of Justice O'Connor due to the alarmist and anti-government nature of its storyline. The network is concerned that the story might have the effect of encouraging a viewer to, as one attorney stated, `create a true story that takes place in the present.' I have e-mailed Mr. Gersten and though he has expressed disappointment, he understands the reasoning. Miriam Szapiro Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 UFOs captured on DVCamera From: xalium@netwrx.net Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:02:35 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:55:29 -0400 Subject: UFOs captured on DVCamera Thanks to Mike DeVarennes We had the opportunity to use a new "Digital Video Camera" for skywatching today (6-22-97). We started the skywatch at 11:00 a.m. in Tempe, AZ. At around 11:30 a.m. We started seeing our first "white dots" of the day. They were recorded on DVC, VHS, VHS-C (160/x) and 35mm with a 2,000 mm lens. There were only three of us. These DVC cameras cost between $3,000 to 5,000 big ones. The list included... Tom King Rob King Jason DeGraf We have more videocameras than we could use, we have a S-VHS camera but didn't use it because we needed someone to operate it. The sightings included the following. 1. A white object that came out of the Sun. Captured on VHS-C on 160x. Then captured on DVC, and VHS, and 35MM camera. We are unsure about this object. It could be a piece of debris in the sky. It also could not be a piece of debris. At this time many objects were seen and taped. We are trying to figure out what was taped when. They started coming from everywhere. 2. Multiple objects started appearing and were captured on DVC. Atleast 3 objects at once were recorded. These objects were looked at thru a 15x spotting scope and could not be identified as, balloons, plastic bags, or aircraft. We are unsure what we were seeing and taping. They did not look like usual debris floating over the town. 3. The sightings we captured only lasted about 45 minutes. After that the Sky was dead and we have nothing to report. For a brief moment in time a lot of things happened. Althought this video we shot does not constitute any new ground breaking evidence for the UFO community,(we have seen, and shot better). We have decided not to post it online, unless people demand it so. If its demanded we will post it. Other wise we will continue Skywatching and looking for more UFOs. Tom King AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L E-Mail xalium@netwrx.net OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Arizona UFOs online now From: xalium@netwrx.net Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:10:53 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:56:36 -0400 Subject: Arizona UFOs online now Because of the new highten media coverage of the Arizona Mass Sightings. I have decided to post more information about the sightings bases on the current investigation of the March 13th sighting in Arizona. I have post a total of five videos taken that night with more details on what the medias talking about. Also there are 2 more videos to be posted soon. Tom King AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L E-Mail xalium@netwrx.net OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 02:53:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:03:01 -0400 Subject: Re: ABC News-Peter Jennings >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:15:00 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC News-Peter Jennings >>Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:54:25 +0100 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ABC News-Peter Jennings > Don wrote, >>Watch closely for some (what I call) kickout phrases, attitudes or Jared responds, >Interesting thing here Don. I have been paying very close attention to the >way news reporters deliver UFO stories and I am happy to say that they are >not always so biased towards the negative when they smirk. Case and point >CNN Hi All, I'm not a 'huge' fan of the media, (those who know me, know that I've been lied to, set-up, used and bashed more than once. There is no love lost.) but, I have to support Jared when he says that 'certain' newscasters are begining to come around and give a more sober presentation. I have done two newscasts (segments) for CNN with Budd. In both instances we we're treated with dignity and respect. They 'gave us our heads' and as a result got information out of us that would otherwise have gone by the boards. (Had they chosen the low road 'put down' or, 'ridicule' route.) So, Jared is correct when he says that attitudes are changing (a bit.) They are. John Velez * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:58:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:45 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:18:37 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >Minor correction -- reality stays the same, our views of it change if we > >evolve. > You know, I'm not so sure that is true. This implies that there is an > "absolute" reality somewhere independent of the observer, and I think research > in quantum physics has pretty much disproved that. The "observer effect" woul d > indicate that reality is determined in large part by the expectations of the > observer. Now the really important question: who is the observer? Bob and other philosophers, If there is no absolute reality, at least as far as our physical world is concerned, things could get pretty darned confusing! There would seem to be a lot going on that no human observer keeps track of. Do ETs have to be observing every asteroid all the time to keep them all orbiting the sun? If events continue to unfold that obey the laws of physics, and observers aren't needed to produce them, they must constitute part of absolute reality, I should think. Think of how confusing lack of an absolute reality would be for a time traveler who goes back in time with different expectations than those who had lived there during "natural" time. By going back, he could change the past from what it actually had been and from what written records and fossils & photos, etc., preserved from the past had indicated it was, as well as perhaps affecting the future?? A person who holds this "unreality" view should find it too irreconcilably confusing to also hold the view that aliens are humans of the future traveling back in time to our era. (But I'm not one with that view, and you probably aren't either?) So I have trouble even getting to the question of who is the observer. Anyhow, within ufology nothing counts unless there are multiple observers! Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:03:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:04:35 -0400 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - June Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update June 22, 1997 __________________________ In this update: New Formations in England, Holland and Germany "Cloud Circles" in US Reported by Colin Andrews Report of "Ice Ring" in BC, Canada - From the 1970s! For further details on these and previous news items, please see the CPR-Canada web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Keep checking for regular updates from England and around the globe, as well as news on 1997 Canadian circle formations __________________________ Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Schuessler Book From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:36:36 -0400 Subject: Schuessler Book Jim Moseley stated in one of his recent editions of Saucer Smear that after years of silence John Schuessler has announced that he is writing a book on the Cash-Landrum incident. I've always found this to be one of the most fascinating cases on record. Does anyone know any details about the book?..the title?, release date?, publisher? etc. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 1000s Sydney residents fears of a UFO From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:30:22 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:39:04 -0400 Subject: 1000s Sydney residents fears of a UFO 22/86/97 14:57 SMH NEWS DESK 88397856388 N0.36S PBB1 >From The Sydney Morning Hearld Newspaper 22nd June, 1997 Pagel NSW BLIMP CAUSES UFO PANIC IN SYDNEY BLIMP LEAD PAGE1 LEAD SYDNEY, June 21 AAP -=20 A giant fluorescent-yellow, football-shaped object seen by thousands of Sydney residents floating across the city sparked fears of a UFO landing tonight. A police spokeswoman said residents jammed police and radio station switchboards with reports of the strange bright light hovering above their suburbs, some from as far away as Sydney's northern beaches.But the light was definitely not from a UFO but the Whitman's chocolate company blimp, she said. =20 National UFO hotline senior operator Ross Dowe said the Melboume-based service recorded its busiest night in five years with more than 1,000 calls from worried Sydney residents between 6pm and 7.30pm (AEST). Mr Dowe said some callers were panicked by what they had seen but all had been reassured that the object was a blimp on its way from Bankstown Airportto the Sydney Football Stadium to film a rugby union test match game between Australia and France for Channel 7. Even more calls were expected to be received by the hotline's three operators when the 40-metre-long, 20-metre-high blimp left the stadium later tonight, he said. "Some people were saying it was brighter than the moon and a lot of people were scared of it:' Mr Dowe said."People around the Beacon Hill area were quite concerned. We had quite a lot of calls from that area." Other calls came from western suburbs such as Parramatta, Bankstown and Penrith plus Mona Vale, Mosman and Frenchs Forrest in the north.Several others called from Bondi and Rose Bay in Sydney's east. he American chocolate company has used the blimp to advertise its products over suburbs in Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide. Blimp pilot Kelvin White said tonight was the first time the blimp had floated above Sydney and it had caused similar panic among residents in other cities it had hovered over, "We normally fly it for advertising but we do a lot of work for sports events on Channels TO, 9 and 7," he said. The airship contains 69,000 cubic feet of helium and is powered by two 72 horse power engines. It sheds a golden, orange light from two 1,000 watt bulbs and features Whitman's logo written across it in green ink. AAP bt/gb21-06=B797 2056
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Roswell gun camera photo From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:09:00 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:39:58 -0400 Subject: Roswell gun camera photo I recently heard a suggestion that the gun camera picture has been exposed as a fake. Can anyone on the list confirm this? I am particularly interested because, after sighting here in Australia, the witnesses produced a drawing that had a strong resemblance to the craft allegedly photographed over Roswell. Needless to say, the sighting was before the Roswell photo was published. If anyone wants a copy of the drawing email me off list and I'll send one along Stuart
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:36:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:41:08 -0400 Subject: Re: > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:38:23 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > I publish a UFO newsletter every week and have included a commentary > about the Roswell events. > <Snip most> > There are far more compelling and better documented cases than > this one.... Finally there is the testimony of Dr. Valery Dvuzhilni of > the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow who said in the recent > Discovery Channel documentary 'UFOs: Down to Earth' that what > crashed near Dalnegorsk in Siberia in 1984 was an extrater- > restrial spaceship. Not on the basis of witness testimony, as in > the case of Roswell, but on the basis of ten years of materials > analysis of the retrieved debris. Henny, where can we find more details about this case? Seems to me very very little comes across the water from Eastern Europe - point us in the right direction, if you can, and thanks!!!!!! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:10 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:52:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:41:36 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate:Sarbacher, Roswell, nanotechnology - Was How many > fingers? >Actually, I wonder why no one has brought this up lately. Attended MD >MUFON conference early May and Linda Howe presented her evidence about >the debris that had been sent to Art Bell (from the grandson of an >individual who was allegedly a member of the "cleanup crew" & lifted >some samples from the site). Evidently the Molybdenum/Magnesium (hope I >am repeating this combination correctly from memory - apologies, cannot >find my notes!) sides of the samples were bonded at the molecular >level. Melanie, Linda presented the same info earlier at the Ozark conference. Video of her talk is available from the conference. The metal is Bismuth, not Molybdenum. Bismuth has figured heavily in electro-gravitic research for years since some early reports that it loses weight when electrically charged. Yes, the sample jumps in the air when charged with a high voltage static charge from a van de Graff generator. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 23 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:12 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:53:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. >Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:08:25 -0400 >And talk about cynicism....Pocket Books bills this as "The truth >exposed after fifty years!" but -- it's fair to guess -- rushed it to >the printers without any editing. >Greg Sandow As a working editor who reads EVERY word that goes into my magazine every month several times, I fee like a dinosaur. Editing of books and magazines is a dying art. Most recent UFO books seem to have gone to print with no editing whatsoever. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but this bothers me. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:22 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:29:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:51:02 GMT >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO conversation >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >My bet is the video was doctored. Having been an insider >as a NASA space shuttle engineer for 10 years, I know >astronauts do NOT say "UFO". Roger, Minor point. The astronaut in the video plainly does a mental flip- flop, pauses, and then says somewhat hesitantly, "" Uh,....we have an unidenified flying object." Then the audio transmission goes dead, but the video continues as she zooms in on something out in space. I think a person who is shocked to the core by seeing something like this might just temporarily forget her training and say something she wasn't supposed to say. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had the pleasure recently of getting to know Alexander Balandine, a Russian cosmonaut, for several days. Alexander was very open and willing to talk about anything (via an interpreter, unfortunately. He speaks only a little English and I speak no Russian.) When I asked him if he had ever seen a UFO during his time in space (nearly six months on Mir), he became very nervous and indicated that he "had no opinion" on this subject. I tried to press him on it, because I was not sure the question had been translated properly. He understands English pretty well, though, and it quickly became clear that he completely understood the question, and this was simply a subject that he was not at liberty to discuss. I was left with the strong impression that he had seen something but was very frustrated because he could not tell me about it. The passion of his speech about UFOs as a world-wide poliical problem was fueled, I'm sure, by this frustration. Oddly enough, the only other topic we touched on over three days of conversations which was obviously taboo was the "face" on Mars. This was something he has specific orders not to discuss. I found that rather odd. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:25 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:30:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:11:57 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > Except that this storm was 75 miles northwest of Roswell and might >not have been observed by anyone in Roswell. This is why you don't >camp in an arroyo because while it is dry overhead, it can be raining >50 miles away. Flash floods are a real danger in this part of the >world. >No one said that the thunderstorm was remarkable, only that it >existed. And I have one witness on tape talking about it. So don't >give me that climatologist garbage. We have enough to worry about >without someone claiming that the thunderstorm never happened >because it wasn't reported in the newspaper. Kevin, Pardon me if I stepped on your toes. I've got no gripe with you. But it did seem odd to me that since this thunderstorm figures so heavily in the story of the crash, no one had bothered to talk to climatologists in the area. I thought this should be done, so I did it. And I was surprised to learn that the summer of 1947 was a particularly hot and dry one, with very few of the thunderstorms which can be so common in the area. I said in my message, and two years ago when I first reported on this, that weather reporting was not as sophisticated in those days as it is today, but I still find it odd that there is no report of any thunderstorm anywhere in the region in June and July of 1947. There are reports from May and later from August. Locals have told me that August is the time of greatest thunderstorm activity in typical years. Kevin, I've spent a lot of time in the American west, and my photographs taken there are some of my best known. I know about sudden storms and flash floods, and always make sure of an escape route when photographing in a canyon or dry wash. Unlike some "researchers" I am not claiming that there was no storm because I found no record of it. I'm just pointing out that apparently no record exists, and this certainly should be investigated. I think you are a bit out of line for calling this report "climatologist garbage" and jumping on me for actually doing some research. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:52:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:39:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 6/22/97 10:55 PM: > Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:45 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:18:37 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview > >> Another piece of required reading is > >> Amit Goswami's _The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates > >> Reality_. > >> Reality ain't what it used to be!!> > >Minor correction -- reality stays the same, our views of it change if we > >evolve. > You know, I'm not so sure that is true. This implies that there is an > "absolute" reality somewhere independent of the observer, and I think > research > in quantum physics has pretty much disproved that. The "observer effect" > would > indicate that reality is determined in large part by the expectations of the > observer. Now the really important question: who is the observer? Actually, this is not the import of quantum research. The Copenhagen interpretation of "quantum reality", which implies that a specific type of quantum event (the collapse of the wavefunction) is only able to occur in the presence of an observer, while accepted by many physicists, and often used to support (incorrectly in my opinion) the idea that objective reality is optional, has been under a fair amount of heat lately in the physics community. You need first to understand that most physicists could care less about the "meaning" of quantum physics, and that quantum physics implies at least eight distinct and exclusive "models of reality", including FTL communication, infinite parallel universes, and a couple of variations on the Copenhagen interpretation. It also can support a classical objective reality interpretation. However, the truth is that all physicists can "prove" is that the math of quantum mechanics makes predictions which have not been shown to be false in experiment. The math cannot currently distinguish between the implied quantum realities. In fact, the argument of what constitutes an "observer" and why an observer should have any privileged status (something which relativity largely removed from science) have been among the reasons that the various subjectivist interpretations of quantum physics have come into question. In short, quantum physics cannot be invoked as a support for the Fortean idea of reality as malleable to some form of non-physical consciousness. Following this thread, one of the things which bothers me about the Fortean attitude is the idea that since these things are all subjective, or are created by some omnipotent being(or close enough to omnipotent to be able to effectively do as it pleases through the whim of mental power) interested for some reason in tricking humanity, is the startlingly low level of proof acceptable to those advocates for so huge a proposition as rejecting objective reality. First, remember that the purpose of a hypothesis is to provide a prediction which can be tested by observation or experiment. This is one of the problems Condon's group had in trying to test ETH - it was essentially indistiguishable from many other theories of UFO origin, and no one could seem to determine what it would predict. But the problems with proving ETH are nothing compared to the problems of proving a Fortean interpretation of UFO phenomena, since, like religion, it is amenable to arguing away any faults found by using an argument that the superintelligence wanted things a particular way (even if it seems to violate the predictions of the theory, or the superintelligence is trying to confuse theorists, etc.) To review the data: 1) 70-90 or so percent (depending on study) of all reported anomalous aerial phenomena are found to be misinterpretations of normal phenomena, or generated by other mundane causes. 2) The remaining cases have resisted explanation, except when the explainers are allowed to multiply causes (i.e. six airplanes, a satellite, Venus, and a flock of ducks required to explain a single sighting), or invoke ad hoc and unprovable causes (the '65 Exeter sighting was caused by a hoaxer with a sequenced light balloon who was never found or caught) or ignore both the evidence and the properties of the phenomenon used as the explanation (the Gill sighting was caused by a mirage, despite that the objects were observed at angles higher than 45 degrees). This essentially disproves the skeptical hypothesis that UFOs are due to "hoaxes, hallucinations, and misperceptions". 3) The analysis of the remaining cases shows a distinct pattern of behavior and physical effects including: A definite mass to the object, especially when in contact with the ground. Ability to reflect radar signals. Ability to deflect stones and bullets. Emission of EM radiations, including IR, UV, and X-ray. Presence of electrical fields. Ability to interfere with the operation of EM transmission and reception equipment. Ability to interfere with gravity (levitation of passed over vehicles or witnesses). Interest in vehicles including autos, trucks, aircraft and balloons. Interest in bodies of water. Interest in habitations. Interest in military installations. Interest in power plants and power transmission facilities. Interest in domesticated animals. 4) The above properties seem consistent with an objective physical existence. Against this well-established evidence, mostly from multiple-witness, or multiple-independent witness, or even instrumented observations, the Forteans usually set the so-called "high-strangeness" cases. What weakens their argument is that such cases are often single witness, or the details are extracted under hypnosis, or witnesses are less credible than those to "mainstream" UFO events. In any event, the high-strangeness cases represent a very small percentage of all of the cases gathered. With some justice, the Forteans can point to the strangeness as a deterrent to reporting, but that is not, in my opinion, sufficient to outweigh the above listed properties which are well-documented by a half-century or more of observations. One of the problems with the "superintelligence" theory is that such a superintelligence is usually postulated as being intimately familiar with man and his institutions. But such a hypothesis is not supported by the fairly clear pattern of "investigation" implied by a number of well-documented UFO properties (particularly their areas of interest). If such a superintelligence is using the UFO phenomenon to "condition" human response, by creating a "myth", there is no need for the many second-order properties (such as statistical distribution of areas of interest), since all that is needed is for the superintelligence to produce its manifestations in places where they can be seen by witnesses. The second-order properties simply reinforce UFO reality to a fairly small segment of the population - that which studies UFOs scientifically. Non-superintelligence theories, in which the UFO phenomenon is just a byproduct of some otherwise unknown natural phenomenon (which forms these objects and their behavior as a response to our minds), run into many of the same problems as the superintelligence theory. It also generates others (Why humans only? How are the energy requirements satisfied without observable sources?.. .etc.) In conclusion, it seems to me that the UFO data itself must be used in attempting to justify a Fortean perspective, and that a critical appraisal of that data does not require us to reject the objective reality of UFOs or to derive a supernatural or superintelligent source for the UFO phenomenon. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Research balloons were tagged From: Jerry Bailey <bailey@phoenix.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:55:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:42:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Research balloons were tagged My father, who was an oilfield worker in West Texas, brought home a balloon instrument package that he or his coworkers had found somewhere in the desert. I'm not sure of the year; but it was about 1950 (plus or minus 3 years). I don't remember much about the instrument, except that it was a grey metal box. What I do remember distinctly is that it was tagged with instructions for the finder to return it to the owner. (which my father did.) It seems to me that any agency sending instruments (or dummies) up on a balloon would likewise tag the package with instructions to contact the owner since it would likely come down on private property. Thanks, JB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:48:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:43 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:18:43 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso - 6 fingers reference.. >Dennis, >Let's wait a bit on Corso. The book has just come out. Karl Pflock has >endorsed Corso, as have all the military sources I am in touch with. Bob and List-- Bob, if you think I've endorsed Corso, then I've got several UFO crash sites in New Mexico to sell you. Maybe this interpretation of my views provides a clue to the quality of your "research" on the Santilli film, etc.... For them as may be interested, my feature review in the July MUFON UFO JOURNAL sets forth my Corso "endorsement" in detail. -- KARL D. BUNKER Search for other documents from or mentioning: ktperehwon | 76750.2717
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials; Abducted! From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:50:31 -0400 Subject: MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials; Abducted! --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials; Abducted! An MTV News Special Report Date: 97-06-23 11:14:37 EDT From: AOL News NEW YORK--(ENTERTAINMENT WIRE)--June 23, 1997-- July 8 marks the 50th anniversary of the report of the UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. You've investigated their visits on the X-Files, you've watched them devour the planet in "Independence Day," and you've read about their nocturnal activities in the Enquirer. Hosted by Kurt Loder, "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" will examine the increasing interest in the paranormal in pop culture, featuring interviews with pop stars such as Marilyn Manson, Bill Paxton, and Will Smith and will highlight some famous alleged alien abductions in past history. "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" premiers on MTV on Tuesday, July 8th at 10:00 p.m. (ET/PT), the 50th anniversary of the report of the UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. The show begins with a portrait of the typical young "abductee," like Carrie, age 24, who believes she was brought aboard a space craft where she was accosted by "Men in Black," and Vogue who believes aliens brutalize him in abductions that occur between the tics of seconds. Through in-depth interviews with young abductees from different parts of the country, the viewer will hear first-hand accounts of their incredible experiences. MTV News will listen to their detailed stories, look at the physical and psychological evidence, and attempt to make sense of their bizarre experiences that transcend traditional Western thought. Abducted! also lends an ear to the skeptics, who will attempt to explain the unexplainable. MTV News visits a professor of neuroscience, Dr. Persinger at Laurentian University who has demonstrated the ability to artificially reproduce an abduction in a controlled laboratory setting. MTV News visits Dr. Persinger's laboratory and talks to professionals who have researched the phenomenon of implanted memories. Finally, MTV News will encounter a group of L.A. based musicians called "The Ark Alliance" who are using electronic music to lure aliens life forms down to their all night rave. MTV News will speak to these young people and hear why they are so confident about the aliens' imminent arrival. "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" is produced and directed by Jesse Ignjatovic. The associate producer is Jennifer Lee. The executive producers are Lauren Lazin and Dave Sirulnick. MTV Networks, a unit of Viacom Inc., owns and operates five cable television programming services -- MTV: Music Television, M2, VH1, Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite, and Nick at Nite's TV Land -- all of which are trademarks of MTV networks. Information about MTV and M2 is available on MTV Online, on America Online (Keyword: MTV) and the World Wide Web ( http://mtv.com ). CONTACT: MTV, New York Andrea Smith, Manager, Program Publicity 212/258-8768
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: UFOs captured on DVCamera From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:07:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:51:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs captured on DVCamera >From: xalium@netwrx.net >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOs captured on DVCamera >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:02:35 EST Tom writes, >Thanks to Mike DeVarennes >We had the opportunity to use a new "Digital Video Camera" for skywatching >today (6-22-97).(snip) Excellent Smithers, excellent! <G> >They did not look like usual debris floating over the town. Tommy, I don't understand your use of the term, "usual floating debris' here. What type of 'debris' would be falling (or flying) in the skies over Phoenix? Military weather balloons? I know that Luke Airforce Base is in your back yard and they could be the source of (some) of the 'debris'. John Velez * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:15:31 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:43 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >Dennis, >Let's wait a bit on Corso. The book has just come out. Karl Pflock has >endorsed Corso, as have all the military sources I am in touch with. I don't know what you mean by "endorsed," Bob. Pflock has admitted that Corso was in the military, served under MacArthur, Eisenhower, Trudeau, was on Thurmond's staff, etc. But that's hardly what's at dispute here, which are Corso's claims regarding Roswell. And those Pflock doesn't endorse, as evidenced by his review of the Corso book coming up in the July Journal. It's as if Ronald Reagan, now well in the grip of Alzheimer's, were to publish his "memoirs" of his role in the winning of the cold war on the 10th anniversary of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Reagan would still have been president of the United States -- and the book could still be claptrap, unless it accords with already existing, well known history and events. Credentials and claptrap aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. >The book reads like total claptrap, for sure, but we need to find out >what this man is all about. The book reads like total claptrap because it is total claptrap, which is evidenced by a careful reading of the book itself. Unless Corso confesses that he "wrote" it to cash in on the 50th anniversary of Roswell, you aren't likely to find out much more of what the man is "all about," or he would have told us in the book. I hate to draw parallels, but how long are we going to have to wait to find out what Ray Santilli is all about? If your mind and reason tell you the book is claptrap, then I suggest you trust them. Go with the flow. >His announced appearance on Nightline on Friday did not happen, and >we were treated to deformed frogs instead. He's supposed to be on >Dateline NBC on Tuesday, so let's see if the turns up. Meanwhile >I'm still working on setting up an interview via an old intelligence >contact of mine. I'm sure their Corso interview is already in the can. I hope you get yours as well, but it isn't hard to predict how it will go, not with a reported 80,000 copies currently in bookstores at $24 each, paperback to follow, and movie rights no doubt in negotiation even as we speak. What do you expect him to say? "Oops, sorry! I meant Socorro. Yeah, the Socorro crash, that's it!" >The whole Roswell story is so bizarre that I think it is premature >to discard Corso just because his tale does not fit the current urban >mythology of what happened at Roswell. > A great deal of the so-called bizarreness of the Roswell story is attributable to some of the people who investigated it, and remained blithley unaware that "witnesses" like Gerald Anderson, Jim Ragsdale, Glenn Dennis and Frank Kaufmann were putting them on and they couldn't recognize it as such because they were so damn willing to believe in bizarreness without evidence. I would add Robert Morning Sky to that august collection as well. I mean, is it any wonder that Roswell is so bizarre as long as we're ready to accept any story that comes down the proverbial pike? >Corso's book is probably the nonsense it reads like, but let's give >it some time and some air and see what happens. We must not be so >mentally inflexible that we throw things out automatically just >because they do not fit our preconceived notions. >Bob Time and air inflate all good stories. All that will basically happen is that people who believe that a spaceship and bodies crashed at Roswell will continue to believe that, and those who don't won't. How many people, having weighed the "evidence," have changed their minds about the alien autopsy film, for example, or Billy Meier? The problem here is that we -- all of us in ufology -- accept *stories* about UFOs when we ought to be demanding absolute, unequivocable proof about those stories when that potential proof is available. (And especially from a man who makes himself out to be the most important individual who ever lived this century.) But ufologists aren't supposed to say that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof -- not when we don't demand even normal proof to begin with. In which case we all get the ufology we deserve. Look at how many people on this list have been so exercised because the Air Force apparently now has three explanations in circulation. How the hell many Roswell scenarios does ufology have in circulation if you add up all the differing dates, crash sites, and continually growing litany of witnesses who all claimed to have been there at the retrieval of three, four, five or more bodies, with four or six fingers? Man, I wish I'd been in New Mexico way back when, the summer it rained UFOs and alien corpses out of the sky. Those were the good ol' days! Carry us back, Corso! Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: All Hell breaks loose! From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:37:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:59:52 -0400 Subject: Re: All Hell breaks loose! >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:00:41 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: All Hell breaks loose! >It's happened! The national media has finally reported the mass >sighting in Phoenix (March 13,1997) My telephone has been jumping >off the hook. Media, researchers, friends, everyone has questions. Hi Errol Hi All Well its made the UK as well just last week. This is the article posted by one of our more popular national news papers. The Sun friday 23June 1997 Riddle of the biggest UFO yet. Bill Coles (in New York) The biggest UFO sighting in the history has left defence chiefs baffled - and thousands of witnesses are now convinced we are NOT alone. A giant V-shaped object with red and white lights cruised silently for 200 miles over Arizona. The slow moving UFO the size of three football pitches, was visible for nearly two hours. It was first spotted by a retired cop - and soon police were flooded with reports. Pilots and air traffic controllers were among the witnesses. Dozens of people shot video footage as the UFO passed low over Pheonix at around 8:15pm on March 13. And despite three months of computer analysis, no one yet has come up with any explanation. Trucker Bill Griener, 51, watched three figters scramble to intercept the mystery craft. He said: "It shot straight up and disappeared. I've seen something that don't belong here." As you can see this was only a small article. In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Lights over Phoeni From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:46:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:00:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Lights over Phoeni >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:05:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lights over Phoenix >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> [SNIP] >"When will they ever learn,... when will they ever learn." (Blowin in >the wind) Pete Seager >John Velez Now then John we all know you should credit Bob Dylan ;) I agree with the rest of your posting though. John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Re: Corso's book From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:01:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:02:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Corso's book Hello Jack and List,, > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Corso's book - Attn: Don Ledger > From: ufo1@juno.com (Jack P Sargeant) > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:23:36 EDT > KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES! Charlotte, NC 1:379/12 > Hello Don, > I've been waiting for someone to comment on the silicon wafers, but since > nobody has, I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. > Back in those days there was a component known as a selenium > rectifier the size of 4 soda crackers stacked one on top the other. > They were used to convert AC into DC. Throughout the 40s and 50s, these > were the solid-state equivalent to the 5U4 rectifier tube. In the late > 60s, these were replaced by the small, silicon rectifier diode which > remains in use even today. My knowledge of these selenium rectifiers may > give my age away, but I worked with those components as a TV repairman > during the Kennedy era. I'm not saying the "crackers" in the book are > the same as what I've just described, but I thought I'd mention it just > the same. > Regards, > Jack > Jack Sargeant, moderator - FidoNet UFO echo. Boy, Jack..does that ever bring back memories. I remember those old selenium rectifiers well. I was 13 or so, about 1958, and a ham operator gave me some supplies so that I could convert a superhet into a receiver to pick up the 5 and 10 meter bands. I put in a BFO, strung about 125 feet of copper winding wire from a generator, made my own insulators....All of those memories just flooded back when you mentioned those old rectifiers. As you said, they were like four soda crackers stacked together with spacers between and a + and - lug on each side. It was painted gray. I had to make a new powersupply for the old superhet so that's where the rectifier came in. I understand that my "ham" friend pulled it out of some surplus military equipment that was obsolete and dated well back into the late 40s if not earlier. Don't think that could have been "alien technology" retrieved from a crashed disc in Corona or Roswell. Thanks for the memory flashback Jack. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 {76} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:14:22 -0400 Subject: {76} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' June 22nd, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 76 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {76} part 1 or part 2 In this issue: Editorial --------- Ultranet Real Audio United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] Jets Close Encounter remains a mystery [UK 2] Mystery of airliner's near miss with a UFO [UK 3] Close encounter puzzles pilots [UK 4] The Mam from Mars [UK 5] Interesting Broadcast [UK 6] The Uninvited by NICK POPE (part 2) [UK 7] Aliens 'are taking over our bodies' [UK 8] 33-1 space race (two reports) [UK 9] Take us to your leader [UK 10] Larry's "Close Encounter" - Rendlesham Forest World News ---------- [W 1] 'UFO Docs gave me a new face' [W 2] Sister planet that may have been pig-in-the-middle [W 3] Seen it all? Then book a package tour to space [W 4] Caught on film....proof that aliens do exist [W 5] Army witness 'saw alien at Roswell' [W 6] Group wants enquiry into visits by extraterrestrials [W 7] It's a Kirk, Jim, but not as we know it [W 8] Religious cult Raelian Movement [W 9] Roswell - The Truth is Here! Letters ------- Elitism in the ufological field is not welcome Dutch trip to Roswell (Encounter 97) Any American UFO Networks? International Skywatch ---------------------- August 30th & 31st 1997 Editorial --------- ULTRACHAT Members logging onto our weekly meetings via the various web pages mentioned in the last issue (see foot of e-zine) will be aware that the Ultrachat pages have not been working recently while upgrades etc have been taking place. We are very happy to announce things are now back to normal. If you would like to join us at our regular weekly meetings via your web browser, see the foot of the e-zine. REAL AUDIO Recently some of you may have had problems downloading certain files from our site. Again this was due to an upgrade. By the time you read this things should be back to normal. CNN broadcast an interesting interview last week with American Jim Marrs author of new book 'Alien Encounters'. This interview is now downloadable as a Real Audio file from: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk Select Real Audio button. United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** Source: Ceefax BBC Home News Date: Thursday 12 June 1997 Jets Close Encounter remains a mystery Aer Lingus has no explanation for an incident in which one of its passenger jets had a close encounter with a flying objects 9000ft over Hertfordshire, north of London area. Both pilots of the plane reported seeing a red, blue and white striped aircraft pass close by on June 7th. But inquiries have failed to find any trace of another plane in the area. An aircraft proximity team said it was sure that the object had not been an aeroplane. [UK 2]****** Source: The Daily Telegraph newspaper Date: Friday 13 June 1997 Mystery of airlines near miss with'UFO' By Paul Marston Transport Correspondent Air investigators are baffled by an apparent near-miss between an Aer Lingus jet and an unidentified flying object. The BAe 146, bound for Stansted from Dublin, took evasive action after both pilots saw what they described as a red aircraft with blue and white stripes heading towards them as they flew over Hertfordshire. The jet past 100ft above the interloper two seconds later. The crew reported the incident to air traffic control and suggested that what they had seen might have been a military aircraft, such as a Red Arrows Hawk. But inquiries, involving searches of radar recordings and radio transcripts, failed to find another aircraft. Investigators established that no Red Arrows aircraft flew that day, and checks on all military or civil Courts revealed that the last one to be airborne had landed four hours earlier. Inquiries into the where-abouts of Gnat aircraft, which are similar to Hawks, also revealed no flights. The possibility that an unregistered ex-military aircraft had taken off from a private airstrip was ruled out as "inconceivable" because radar in the area would make detection a certainty. The Civil Aviation Authority group set up to examine the incident said yesterday that there was no doubt that the pilots "saw something and agreed in some detail in their descriptions". Group members speculated that the object could have been a model aircraft, an advertising balloon, or even plastic sheeting. But the lack of radar evidence "meant that members could feel reasonably certain that what had been seen was not an aeroplane". Similarly, the degree of risk to the jet from the incident, which occurred last June, was "impossible to assess". Aer Lingus said it's pilots had reported the event because they were trained to do so. The airline predicted that the incident was "likely to remain a mystery". [UK 3]****** Source: Evening Mail newspaper (Birmingham) Date: Thursday 12th June 1997 Close encounter puzzles pilots A passenger jet had a close encounter of the unknown kind at 9,000ft over Hertfordshire, an official report revealed today. Both pilots of the Stansted Airport bound BAe 146 - believed to have been flown by Irish carrier Aer Lingus - reported seeing a red, blue and white striped aircraft pass close by. But after extensive inquiries, an aircraft proximity team were unable to find any trace of another plane being in the area. And in a report today, the airprox working group said it felt sure that what had been seen "was not an aeroplane". The group added that the incident "could only be assessed as confliction between the BAe and an unknown object". The Bae had taken off from Dublin and was over Stevenage at 6pm on June 7th, 1996. The pilot saw what he thought was a military aircraft heading towards him which flew down his right side about 200-300 yards away and 100ft below. [UK 4]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: Sunday 8 June 1997 The Mam from Mars A mother who claims she was abducted by aliens has now discovered she was one herself in a past life. Paulinne Delcour Min, who says she's had regular ET encounters since she was eight, put herself in the therapist chair in a bid to find out why. "I looked down at my feet and they weren't human," says Paulinne. 49, who works as a regression therapist. "They were grey and slender, with four webbed toes." The mum of three from Manchester now runs her own support group for people who have had similar encounters. Her experiences are included in a new edition of the classic British alien abduction book, Without Consent. [UK 5]****** From: "Jon Makeham" <tpfserv@mistral.co.uk> Date: Monday 2nd June 1997 Interesting Broadcast Only caught this one a few minutes ago and came in half way (23:15 UK Time) 29th May 1997. Regular talk/music show on BBC Radio 2 (National Channel) Richard Allinson Show. Allinson's guest tonight was a Dr Richard Lawrence, a "Ufologist", and the interview was not the usual patronising rubbish, but quite serious. When asked for an example of a solid UFO experience, Lawrence related the story of a friend of his who was driving home with his wife in the late '70's near Worcester, England when their car was lifted off of the ground by a bright light. They were approached from the light by a 6ft humanoid male with pale blue eyes, and that is all the couple remember. Subsequently, and more interestingly (to me) they were visited at home by A Ministry of Defence official who tried to persuade them that they had seen only the lights on a new highway, and that their humanoid encounter was with a milkman delievring in the early morning! Since they had not, at that time, discussed their encounter with anyone they were distressed and frightened by the visit. The couple have not publicised their experience since. Even more interesting was the reaction of the interviewer. He related a story of his having Buzz Aldrin on the programme, and how Aldrin told him that on the Apollo 11 mission that the vehicle was closely tracked to and from the moon by a variety of spacecraft of unknown origin. He would not repeat these statements on air, and confided that the "recordings" he heard later from himself, Armstrong and Collins had been edited to remove all traces of their reports of bogeys. Perhaps a serious investigator should speak with Richard Allinson about this? He was quite candid on air and would probably be responsive to an investigator. [UK 6]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Wednesday 14th May 1997 Jane felt a rush of air like automatic doors opening as she was carried from her bedroom into a blaze of light. Then she realised exactly what was happening to her. by NICK POPE FORMER UFO DESK OFFICER AT THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE FROM 1991 to 1994, Nick Pope was UFO desk officer at the Ministry of Defence's Secretariat (Air Staff) 2a. His Initial scepticism was swept away by military and civilian evidence which he believed proved some UFOs were of extraterrestrial origin. He made his findings public in an instant bestseller, Open Skies, Closed Minds. Now, in his latest book, which is being serialised by the Mail, Pope has an even more startling conclusion - he believes people are being abducted by aliens and subjected to mysterious examinations. He has investigated hundreds of cases - half, he insists, are genuine happenings. Yesterday, in part one {issue 75}, Pope set out his controversial argument for the abduction phenomenon. Today, in part two, he describes more strange encounters... JAYNE RIMMER, a 40-year-old mother of three from the West Country, is a professional clairvoyant who attributes her strange powers to what she believes was her first encounter with aliens on a Sunday night in November 1992. She had gone to bed at about 10pm, but was restless and could not sleep. Some time later she heard a strange, electronic buzzing sound' which made the hairs on her arms stand on end. Simultaneously, the families two dogs started to whine. Then, at around lam, she heard her eldest son Mark arguing with his girlfriend Sue, who had been staying with the family. The argument became so heated that at one stage Mark tried to get Sue out of the house. This was out of character, and it later transpired that he had felt a sense of impending danger; a feeling that something was going to happen which he did not want Sue to be caught up. Jayne's husband Tom is normally a light sleeper but on this night Jayne could not rouse him, despite shaking him violently. At l.45am she heard a blast of air, as if automatic doors had opened, and suddenly she felt herself being lifted and carried from her bed-room into a corridor. She could see little grey figures around her and described them as having wrinkled skin, 'like a mush-room'. There was a strong smell of ammonia and something else which she could only liken to Brylcreem [gents hair cream]. By this stage she was not sure whether she was being carried or if she was walking. She caught sight of a of a woman with blonde, shoulderlength hair, who was smiling. Jayne felt frightened but kept telling herself it was only a dream. At the back of her mind, however, she was convinced it was not. She entered an oval-shaped room - with three pyramid designs on the wall that she thought must be insignia of some kind - which was bathed in an exceptionally bright light. A medical examination was then carried out. She had pains in her stomach and felt that something was being done to her head, and particularly to her ears. At the end of this procedure she was taken to what appeared to be a refectory, where there seemed to be a lot of people eating, talking and relaxing. She was offered a drink but cannot recall any more details. HER AWARENESS - which up to now had been rather unfocused - began to sharpen. She suddenly started to appreciate the enormity, and the extreme strangeness, of what was occurring. A sudden thought crystallised in her mind: 'They're aliens.' As soon as the thought was out, Jayne felt that the entities realised she was not under the mysterious control that had made her so docile and compliant, and they did some-thing to her, placing her into an altered state of consciousness. She saw an Image of her mother, who had been dead for many years. Jayne feels this imagery was deliberately, placed in her mind to convince her that she was dreaming. She then felt a curious pulling, as if she was being sucked into a vortex as she fell back into her own bed. The time was now 4.35am and Jayne spent the next 20 minutes trying, unnuccessftilly, to rouse her husband. She made a cup of tea and lit a cigarette. Then she noticed that she was shaking uncontrollably and sweating. She started thinking about the events of the previous night and kept trying to convince herself that she had dreamed them. When Tom, a mechanic, finally woke, Jayne told him about her 'nightmare'. Later, when both came to believe there was an astounding explanation for Jayne's experience, Tom gave her his complete support. FOR THE rest of the day Jayne suffered from shaking, headaches and extreme thirst. She is usually very calm but every time she thought about her 'dream', a feeling of dread came over her. The family's dogs and cat also acted strangely and refused to come into the house. When her son Mark came home at 5pm, his first words finally dashed her hopes of palming the incident off as a vivid nightmare: 'What the hell was going on in your bedroom last night?' A chill came over Jayne as Mark described what he had experienced. It transpired that after he had made sure Sue had gone home, he had returned to bed but had been unable to sleep. He had then seen a bizarre green, fluorescent light shining all around his door, as if there was an extremely bright light source just outside his room. He tried to move but was overcome by a feeling of paralysis. He, too, heard the eerie whooshing sound, together with what sounded like very loud voices, although quite unlike anything he had heard before. He was aware of nothing else until the morning. Jayne, profoundly affected by this corroborative account, was very emotional over the next few days. She was afraid to go to bed and could do so only if her pets were in the room with her. The experience also seemed to unlock memories of earlier incidents, such as one in November 1991. On this occasion Jayne woke with a start and had been aware of what she thought was an exceptionally bright fu11 moon outside her window. Standing by the chest of drawers was a tall figure she assumed was her husband. She wondered why he was standing there but assumed it had something to do with his insomnia. A few seconds later the truth dawned on her, as she moved her arm and felt that Tom was sleeping soundly beside her. Only the benevolence emanating from the figure prevented her from screaming out. As Jayne's night vision began to take effect, she got a better view. The figure was male, tall, with long blondibrown hair and possibly a beard. He was kindly- looking, not dissimilar to the popular image of Jesus. He was wearing a shiny garment that looked almost as if it were made of polythene and was leaning against the chest of drawers, with his arms folded nonchalantly. The amazing thing was that Jayne could see right through him. In the past she had seen what she had believed were ghosts, but Jayne sensed that this was very different and definitely possessed self-awareness. Jayne hid under the quilt until the figure disappeared. The following morning her daughter, then eight, asked her: 'Why was Daddy watching me in bed last night?' The next strange event took place on a Thursday night after Jayne had retired early. When she woke up she was not in bed but on a hard surface. She felt warm and comfortable and was aware of a lilac/white light above her in a narrow line, as if from a strip light, and of two figures on either side of her. She heard a conversation: 'She's aware of where she is.' 'She can't be.' 'We've got to take her back.' She then felt a spiralling sensation and found herself back in bed. Next day, she was positive the experience had been real, not just a dream. Jayne says she has since developed precognition - the ability to see the future - and is now one of Britain's most talented clairvoyants. Our car was sucked upwards into the air On January 3, 1991, leader Peter Milton, his American girlfriend Jenny Robinson and her friend Sharon Voght had a classic UFO encounter while driving from Orlando to Boca Raton, Florida - the details of which emerged only later during hypnotic regression. They took the Florida turnpike, a toll road which skirts around the Everglades and Lake Okeechobee. There is no way to live the road other than by the exits, with booths and barriers. Jenny was driving the rented Honda, while Peter was at her side. Sharon was asleep in the back. Slowly, Peter became aware that something odd was happening. He had a map and had noticed that the distance between the last exit they had passed and the next one they wanted - was short. The had placed the toll ticket on the dashboard with the few dollars they would need to pay at the booth. But there was no sign of the exit. Peter wondered whether the map might be out of date and mentioned this to Jenny. She was a native of Florida and knew the route well. But she was confused, too. In an instant, they were on the outskirts of Boca Raton. They looked at each other in disbelief. The toll ticket and money were still on the dashboard. They did not mention the event to Sharon, since she had slept through it. A few months later, Peter was chillingly reminded of their odd experience when he read a book about alien abductions. It described a motorist who had had a similar experience. In the autumn of 1995, Peter, his relationship with Jenny long since over, visited the US once again. This time he underwent regression hypnosis to try to resolve what had happened on the toll road. Under hypnosis he told a remarkable story... He recalls feeling uneasy. Next moment, their car was being pulled off the road. He glanced to his left and saw Jenny was sitting in the driving seat, staring ahead, with her hands on the steering wheel. They felt nauseous as the car was drawn off the road and sucked onwards, turning as it went. When it stopped, they were surrounded by trees, as if they were in a clearing, a hundred feet up in the air. The trees were illuminated, but Peter was unsure whether this was from the car headlights or from another source. Peter glanced again at Jenny, who seemed like a statue. He unfastened his seatbelt and opened the car door, telling Jenny that he wouldn't be long. He stepped out into thin air. He was supported by an invisible surface which 'gave' slightly - a feeling he likened to walking on a mattress. He stepped up to avoid treading on what seemed to be a bulkhead. Suddenly, without being aware of how the transition had happened, Peter was walking down a metallic corridor. Floor lights were coming on in sequence and gave the impression of a moving arrow, which Peter felt he had to follow. When the lights stopped, he was at an open door which led into a room piled with cardboard boxes full of junk. He recalled seeing hazard lamps and road traffic signs. Leaving the room, he saw that the direction of the floor lights had reversed and were pointing back the way he had some. He followed them, not feeling the urge to explore. Soon he was walking on air again. When he looked back, the corridor was disappearing into the trees. He got back into the car, closed the door and fastened his seatbelt. The car spun to the ground. It was put back on a road near Boca Raton. Greys spirited me away for tests Vaunda Hoscil, 22, from Dulwich, south London, believes she has been abducted by aliens many times. She was only 14 when, she says, the extraterrestrial beings known to ufologists as Greys somehow spirited her from her bedroom and then subjected her to memory tests in a metallic, brightly lit room with banks of computer screens on the walls. Several years later, says Vaunda, she had telepathic contact with an alien called Antholus, who said 16 alien species were visiting Earth, and some carried out experiments on people. He told Vaunda: "As the years have passed we have been studying your place thoroughly. We have come to the conclusion that for every one person who believes in us there are another 10 who don't. "Therefore we have a harder task to convince those of you who don't believe. "You have so much to offer us, just as we have a lot to offer you and your society. Hopefully, one day in the near future, we will be able to show you just what we can actually give you. "It is an effort to keep ourselves hidden, with your technology becoming more and more advanced. Unfortunately until we feel we can trust you completely, we are unable to reveal ourselves in full. "This is why we are taking people, in the hope that they will spread the word of our existence." On a summer's evening in 1979, in Didsbury, near Manchester, Linda Jones was out walking with her young son and daughter. Suddenly they saw an object hurtling towards them from the sky and, thinking an aircraft was about to crash, they crouched down in a field. When the object had passed over head they ran up a hill to get a better view. To their amazement, they saw a crescent shaped UFO. Linda was extremely curious, and felt drawn to it. Time seemed to stand still for her, and she walked towards the brightly lit object. But, prompted by the shouting of her daughter, all three ran off. When they got home, one and a half hours of time was unaccounted for, and the following morning Linda's husband, Trevor, noticed that she had read marks, similar to blistering sunburn, around her eyes. Under hypnotic regression, Linda recalled seeing a figure in the field, followed by a floating sensation. She then recalls being in a room with three tall figures with black hair, jump suits and large, black, almund shaped eyes. The figures were shining a bright light in her face. She does not know how to evaluate this incident, which she freely admits was beside her knowledge or experience. Abridged extracts from The Uninvited by Nick Pope, to be published by Simon and Schuster on June 2 at 15 pounds 99 pence. [UK 7]****** Source: News Of The World Date: 15th June 1997 Aliens 'are taking over our bodies' By Edward Trevor Aliens on visits to Earth have secretly placed sinister implants in humans, a former CIA agent insists. In bizarre claims that mirror the far - fetched plots of the hit TV series The X - Files, Derrel Sims also alleges that the influence may be able to affect behaviour. Agent Sims claims he himself has been involved in the removal of implants from 12 Americans. Most could recall having had a UFO type experience, ranging from sightings to abductions earlier in their lives. Mr Sims, who will reveal his findings at the annual conference of the British Research Association in August, said: "I will be showing some of these implants. They have been removed from various parts of the bodies of these people. "An investigation shows that the implants may be connected to nerves able to modify behaviour in some way." They were discovered by baffled doctors during routine medical examinations. "It's quite remarkable," Mr Sims said. "They were encased in a substance that is almost impossible to remove with a blade, were needle like and about half an inch long. "We took the implants to a laboratory without telling them the background, and the material was meteoric in origin." Mr Sims, who has probed alien abductions for 27 years, added: "we know something unusual is going on." [UK 8]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Saturday 14 June 1997 33-1 space race The odds against meeting intelligent extra terrestrial by January 1st, year 2000 were cut by bookmakers William Hill (one of the UK's largest bookmakers) yesterday to 33-1. A spokesman said: "we've been lowering the odds for a few months. They were 1,000-1 at one point. --- Source: ITV Teletext - Strange But True Date: 15 June 1997 A bookmaker has taken action to avoid an out-of-this-world payout if it is shown we are not alone in the universe. William Hill cut the odds on making contact with other forms of intelligent life in or before January 2000 to 33-1. A spokesman said they did not want to repeat the mistake of the 1960's when they quoted odds of 1,000-1 against man landing on the Moon. [UK 9]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Saturday 14 June 1997 Peter Tory - The Master of Whimsy Take us to your leader... Few will be unfamiliar with what is known as "The Roswell incident". That mysterious affair concerned the supposed crash in New Mexico of a flying saucer and the recovery by the American authorities of deceased aliens with large bald heads. We have even seen film of an apparent autopsy. UFO followers have always claimed a cover up and newspapers regularly carry updates. Last weekend The Sunday Times ran a prominent review of a book by Colonel Philip Torso, a retired American army officer, who claims to have seen the body of a space person preserved unpleasantly in a blue chemical. Sceptics once again raise their objections but none after the most obvious; if there had been a cover up in 1946, involving hundreds of people who were privy to the event, why has no one, apart from a number of hick farmers and petrol pump attendants, come forward to tell us all about it. Such exciting knowledge would have been whispered down through three generations and by now millions, at the very least, would know of it. Quite simply, history would have been unable to keep the secret. As with most conspiracy theories, including that which attends the assassination of President Kennedy, we might conclude that it is wild and fanciful nonsense. But is it? For we mustn't close the door entirely. This column has long suggested that some of our politicians have been sent by an unfriendly alien civilisation to lead us to unthinkable disaster. Take a close look at the hairless "alien" body on the mortuary slag. It is a dead Ringer, surely, for Tory leadership contender William Hague. [UK 10]****** From: Calb1701@aol.com Source: Leicester Mercury newspaper Date: Monday 26th May 1997 Larry's "close encounter" A CLOSE encounter with possible visitors from another world is to be revealed in Leicester next month. Former US Air Force security guard Larry Warren will be be visiting the Adult Education Centre in Wellington Street to talk about his encounter with what he believes to be a real alien spaceship. The incident happened in 1980 when he was stationed at the RAF airbase in Rendlesham Forest, East Anglia. On December 29 he was told to investigate a suspected aircraft crash in a forest, but discovered what he believed to be a spaceship and its occupants. Larry said: "As my mind tried to register what I was looking at, the ball of light exploded in a blinding flash." Now Larry has written a book about his experiences entitled Left At East Gate, and will be telling his story at the college on June 13 from 7pm World News ---------- [W 1]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: Sunday 8 June 1997 'UFO Docs gave me a new face' By Ian Brandes Alien paramedics are helping road crash victims, it is claimed. They regularly swoop to earth to intervene in traffic accidents, according to a new book. Author and academic Preston Dennett believes they have also cured cancers, gynaecological problems, kidney complaints and dental problems. American accident victim Alicia Hansen went face first straight through a car windscreen in a horrific smash. Yet despite massive injuries there is no longer a mark on her face. "Alicia believes aliens performed micro surgery to remove any scars." says Dennett. And this was just one of many incidents where crash victims believed they were saved by paramedics from space. In another case, says Dennett, a 73year old Argentinian man grew a third set of teeth after being hit by a beam from a UFO. And sisters Sherry and Linda were cured of persistent bouts of thrush which had not responded to conventional treatments. Both insisted to Dennett that they were whisked into space and cured by "aliens with small pointed heads, large eyes and greenish skin". Dennetts book, UFO Healings, will be published in Britain next year. [W 2]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 12 June 1997 Sister planet that may have been pig-in-the-middle The earth may once have had a sister planet which was flung from the solar system, scientists claim. A computer model of the creation of the planet has discovered a 'hole' between the earth and Mars where a body once existed. If the theory is correct, the earth's twin was ejected from the young, unstable planetary system more than four billion years ago. Astronomer Dimitris Christodoulou of Louisiana State University in the US, made the discovery when he set out to solve a long standing puzzle - why the planets occupy the orbits they do. According to his model, gas and dust spread out through the solar system in concentric rings. Planets would have been most likely to form at these points, where matter was most concentrated. While Mercury, Venus and the earth closely match the position of the first three rings, the fourth ring, between earth and Mars, is empty. Doctor Christodoulou, quoted in the magazine New Scientist, believes a missing planet may once have occupied this space. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 {76} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:22:26 -0400 Subject: {76} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' June 22nd, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 76 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {76} part 1 or part 2 [W 3]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Monday 26th May 1997 Seen it all? Then book a package tour to space NASA's 500 million pounds hotel in the sky >From Ivor Key IN NEW YORK It will be the ultimate room with a view overlooking Earth and with a vista of the rest of the solar system. Plans for a hotel orbiting our planet are well under way and the first tourists are expected to be shuttled to their exclusive destination within 15 years. Their stay, however, will also possibly be the most expensive long weekend in history. The three-day trip is expected to cost 10,000. NASA scientists are working with a Hawaiian firm of architects on designs for the 500 million pound space resort which is expected to open for business in 2012. "The view from space is like having a globe on your desk," said Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon. "It's a broadening experience after looking at parts of the Earth only on maps and then to see them for real." NASA believes that getting civilians into space will help persuade the public and U.S. government of the value of their costly space exploration plans. What puts the project within reach is the possibility of using spent expensive external fuel tanks from shuttle flights. These are burnt when the spacecraft renters the Earth's atmosphere but if left in space they could be used as components to build the outer ring of the hotel. "It's like developing a new and vast wonderful frontier," said Howard Wolff, vice-president of Honolulu architects Wimberley, Allison & Goo. "The point is to strike a balance between creating an out-of-this-world experience and providing some creature comforts." The 100-bedroom hotel will feature a glass-bubble viewing deck with computer- aided images to help guests identify which part of the Earth they are seeing. Food will be grown in soil-less nutrients and guests will be able to work off dinner with zero gravity ballgames. Day trips will include a visit to a nearby space station, and space walks will be an optional extra. The hotel will be divided into areas of zero and artificial gravity, allowing guests to float about. The estimated 50 per cent who will suffer space sickness can keep their feet firmly on the ground. A Japanese construction company plans to launch a space hotel by 2020 but RIBA Journal, the British architectural magazine, reveals today that the U.S. project has the advantage. "The project takes into account the needs of paying guests rather than well- trained astronauts," said deputy editor Louise Rogers. Would-be passengers will only need a medical check before booking their trip of a lifetime. Holidaymakers who have orbited the Earth, however, will face one problem. Once you have seen the whole world, where do you go next year? [W 4]****** From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Source: Sunday Mirror newspaper Date: 31st May 1997 Caught on film....proof that aliens do exist. It is bug-eyed like an insect, has a huge head and wierd, grey body and it comes from a galaxy near you. TV viewers have just been shown the the first-ever pictures of a LIVE alien. Investigators say that the frail, ET-like creature survived a spacecraft crash in the New Mexico desert FIFTY years ago. The amazing video which was shown on the German PRO7 Channel was smuggled out of the top secret Area 51 US base in the Nevada desert, where the alien was said to have been interrogated. Now despite claims that the film is a hoax, it has sparked a international call for the US President Clinton to "come clean" on America's secret files on UFO's and aliens. My notes. It is fairly well known that Ray Santilli sold the Alien Autopsy films to a German buyer. So what I wonder is, are these connected? There was another six roles of film that Santilli never released so I wonder if these are connected? It was reported at the crash that there was one live alien, could this be the film of that one? There was also a poor quality picture with the article and if anyone would like a copy please email me and I will post you one back. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ [W 5]****** From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.mdbs.com> Source: Sunday Times newspaper Date: 8th June 1997 Army witness 'saw alien at Roswell' by James Adams and Maurice Chittenden IT CAME from outer space. Now the very first X File is being reopened as a new witness comes from out of the blue to testify that he saw the body of an alien recovered from the wreckage of a flying saucer in the New Mexico desert. The "Roswell incident" has fascinated UFO researchers for 50 years. Now Colonel Philip Corso, a retired American army officer, has written a book in which he becomes the highest-ranking person to give evidence that what crashed was not, as the Pentagon insisted, a high-altitude balloon, but an alien spacecraft. Britain's UFO spotters welcomed his testimony this weekend as fresh evidence that Roswell actually happened, after losing credibility when a film purporting to show an autopsy of the aliens was exposed by The Sunday Times as a hoax. Sceptics, though, claim it is Corso who is now full of hot air, pointing to the fact that he has kept quiet for half a century only to come forward to cash in on the golden anniversary of the incident which started the UFO craze. During the night of July 2, 1947, there was a violent thunderstorm over Roswell army air field (RAAF) in New Mexico, then home to the only atomic bomber squadron in the world. The next morning a rancher, checking for storm damage, stumbled across wreckage and strange shiny material which he could not bend or tear, and which he had never seen before. On July 8 the local newspaper published a report headlined "RAAF captures flying saucer on ranch in Roswell region". The military authorities at first claimed the wreckage was part of a weather balloon. Within hours the owner of a local radio station was contacted by the Pentagon and warned that he would lose his licence if he continued to transmit news of the find. Later it was said that the debris belonged to a high-altitude balloon being used to monitor Soviet nuclear tests. In his book The Day After Roswell, Corso claims not only to have seen an alien who had been killed in a crash but also to have examined the Pentagon's secret files on the incident. Corso says that the Pentagon shipped the bodies of aliens to the Walter Reed hospital in Washington, where autopsies were performed. The spacecraft contained technology that baffled the Pentagon's best scientists, says Corso. He claims parts of the spacecraft were parcelled out to America's top defence companies and eventually led to the development of fibre optics, night-vision equipment, lasers, particle beams and integrated circuits. The "massive cover-up" of the Roswell incident was not so much to keep the secret of the aliens from the American people, he insists, but to allow defence contractors to develop the new technologies without them falling into the hands of the Russians. Ironically, the defence contractors were told that the material had been stolen from the Soviet Union. Corso said: "Nobody wanted to come in second place in the silent, unacknowledged alien-technology development race going on at the Pentagon as each service quietly pursued its version of a secret Roswell weapon." Corso had joined the army in 1942 and served in intelligence in Europe. Later, during the Korean war, he was on General Douglas MacArthur's intelligence staff and for four years served on President Dwight Eisenhower's national security staff. He claims that while he was based at Fort Riley in Kansas in July 1947, he became curious about a mysterious group of sealed boxes that had been stored in a secure area. One night, armed with a torch, he prised open one of the containers. Inside, he says, was an astonishing sight: "The contents, enclosed in a thick glass container, were submerged in a thick light blue liquid. At first I thought it was a dead child they were shipping somewhere, but this was no child. "It was a 4ft human-shaped figure with arms, bizarre-looking four-fingered hands I didn't see a thumb thin legs and feet, and an oversized incandescent lightbulb-shaped head that looked like it was floating over a balloon gondola for a chin. I had the urge to touch the pale grey skin. But I couldn't tell whether it was skin because it also looked like a very thin one-piece head-to-toe fabric covering the creature's flesh." His account is similar to how others have previously imagined the Roswell "aliens". However, George Knapp, an investigative reporter and UFO expert, said: "Corso brings a level of credibility to these revelations that has been sorely lacking in the past. I strongly suggest that interested parties keep open minds about his claims." But Karl Pflock, a former assistant secretary of defence and a writer on UFOs who is working on his own account of Roswell, said: "The book is a cross between a 1940 pulp thriller and contemporary pop science fiction. It is one big outrageous joke that a retired officer could pull off this kind of thing. He offers no proof, no back-up and no documentation." Nevertheless, the book will give weight to the claims of researchers when 10m people watch a live debate on UFOs on ITV later this month. Lionel Beer, founder and vice-president of the British UFO Research Association, said: "Ninety-five per cent of UFO researchers are now convinced the autopsy film was a put-up job. Clearly something happened at Roswell, but we may never know exactly what it was." [W 6]****** Source: Boston Globe Date: April 14, 1997 GROUP WANTS INQUIRY INTO VISITS BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS NATIONAL/FOREIGN And now, a plea for government hearings on UFOs For `good of humankind,' group wants inquiry into visits by extraterrestrials Bob Hohler, Globe Staff City Edition Page A8 Copyright 1997) WASHINGTON -- No one cited Hale-Bopp or Heaven's Gate when a UFO group, backed by an astronaut who has walked on the moon, called last week for hearings on an alleged government cover-up of earthly visits by extraterrestrial life forms. The only references to "Independence Day" or the "X Files" were uttered by Dr. Steven M. Greer, director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, who assailed the sci-fi fare as part of the "90 percent of what people are exposed to on this subject: rubbish, complete and utter nonsense." Greer and the former NASA astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, told reporters and congressional officials in separate closed-door briefings that their assessment of extraterrestrial activities, although widely disputed, requires urgent federal attention for the good of humankind. Greer, Mitchell and a panel of "witnesses" asserted that several extraterrestrial civilizations -- working together from bases within the solar system and possibly from temporary outposts under water on Earth -- regularly visit the planet and are prepared for wide-scale contact with humans. All that stands between such an intergalactic moment, Greer asserted, is human civilization reaching out with a new foreign diplomacy. "What has been lacking is an appropriate response from planet Earth," said Greer, an emergency room physician from Asheville, N. C., who has spent several years examining whether UFOs exist. "Look at our response so far: ridicule by the media, denials by our officials and frequent shooting by our military assets." The group's push for hearings into extraterrestrial matters and the government's role in the phenomenon comes amid a sci-fi craze. Mostly a multimillion-dollar entertainment boom, the fad took a dark turn last month when 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult committed suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., believing that a spacecraft shielded by the Hale-Bopp comet would deliver them to a "level beyond human." Among the testimony that Greer's group presented in a Washington hotel last Wednesday and Thursday was that of former military pilots, radar operators and radio engineers who told tales of close encounters with alien spacecraft. One purported incident was said to have involved an alien spaceship hovering over a cluster of B-52 bombers one night in 1969 at Loring Air Force Base in northern Maine. The group also presented several hundred pages of UFO reports and related documents, most of them obtained from government agencies under the Freedom of Information Act. Air Force Secretary Harold Brown told the House panel in 1966 that there was no evidence of visitors from space. Nor is there evidence now, according to NASA officials and several scientists studying the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Ed Weiler, chief scientist for NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and director of the agency's Origins investigation of life in the universe, said astronomers know there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars. "In my personal opinion, the odds that somewhere in the universe there is life at least as intelligent as us are 100 percent," Weiler said. "But I haven't seen any hard evidence that extraterrestrial life or spacecraft has visited us." Officials at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a privately funded science project in California, agreed. After years of research, the California project has yielded no hard evidence that extraterrestrial life or spacecraft exist or are likely to appear soon, said a spokeswoman, Tanaqqi Leonian. "The scientific community doesn't support something like that," Leonian said of the assertions by Greer's group. "It's more for the `X Files' fanatics." Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said the Air Force investigated 12,618 reports of UFOs between 1947 and 1969 and found no evidence they were "extraterrestrial vehicles." Bacon also dismissed longstanding assertions made by Greer's group and others that the US government continues to hold wreckage of an alien spacecraft and the bodies of its occupants the military retrieved, perhaps as early as 1947. At the White House, where President Clinton has requested $1 billion over five years to fund the NASA Origins search, there has been no formal response to a written request by the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence to convene hearings on the group's assertions. Clinton's spokesman, Michael D. McCurry, citing the Pentagon findings, said there would be no push for congressional hearings. "The White House is pushing a lot of things on Congress," he said, "but that is not one of them." Greer, who has met privately with members of Congress and the Clinton administration to press for hearings, asserted that evidence of extraterrestrial activity has surfaced since 1966. Yet no one in government has been willing to support his campaign. PHOTO; CAPTION:Two million light years from Earth is Andromeda, one of billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars. Given those figures, a NASA official says, the chance of life elsewhere is "100 percent." / AP FILE PHOTO [W 7]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: 15th June 1997 It's a Kirk, Jim, but not as we know it By Robert Kellaway Star Trek fans are boldly going where they haven't gone before... By worshipping Captain Kirk! More than 1,000 devotees of the space saga have joined up to a new "religion" to praise actor William Shatner as their "Benevolent Being". The First Church of Shatnerology has set up its Galactic headquarters in Watauga, Texas. Members swear life long devotion to the heart throb, who played Captain James T Kirk in the TV series. Founder John Hatten said: "we worship the holy essences of the most benevolent Shatner Being. We are transfixed by his magnificent toupee." John claims the group has more than 1,000 members from all over the world, including Scotland where "Kirk", of course, means Church. They hold regular prayer meetings to the "OTS" - the "One True Shatner". Self proclaimed Archbishop John said: "a lot of our female members send in love poems." One reads: "Captain of my heart, where your toupee when you breach my warm Nebula..." [W 8]****** Source: ITV Teletext - Strange But True Date: Sunday 15 June 1997 Religious cult Raelian Movement A Swiss - based religious cult is set to offer infertile or homosexual couples the chance to have a child cloned from one of them - for a fee of 125,000 pounds. The service is being set up by the Raelian Movement which believes life on Earth was created by extra-terrestrials. It plans to build a laboratory in a country where human cloning is not illegal and expects over one million customers. [W 9]****** From: Roger Pate <R.Pate@pindar.com> Source: The People Date: 18 May 1997 ROSWELL - THE TRUTH IS HERE! Fifty years ago a mysterious 'flying disc' landed in the desert near Roswell in New Mexico. Witnesses told of a spacecraft containing the dead bodies of five small aliens with large heads and six fingers. The US Army later confirmed alien life existed, then backtracked and claimed the wreckage was that of a weather balloonn. Debate has raged ever since. Now a compelling book The Roswell File* investigates the evidence for and against the most sensational UFO story of the century. In the first of two exclusive extracts, MATTHEW BENNS asks People readers to decide: Did aliens really crash land at Roswell? THE CASE FOR... The night sky was filled with an unnatural glow that seemed to be coming from the floor of the desert. Roswell security chief Frank Kaufmann ordered his men to clip the wire fence and drive towards the light. "We saw this glow of light, this kind of halo of light, just kind of beaming out. "We got to about 200 yards from where it was and we learned then and there that it wasn't a plane, it wasn't a missile - it was some kind of strange looking craft that was embedded in the desert." Kaufmann, for years head of the Roswell Chamber of Commerce, has decided to talk about what he saw that night for the first time to "tell some of the sceptics that maybe there is truth in the matter". In June 1947, he had been sent to the White Sands missile testing base to monitor strange movements on radar screens. But, when Kaufmann and his men got to the site of the crash and trained his spotlights on the wreckage, they were dumbstruck. "We saw something out of this world. It was a little frightening - we just kept staring at it and not saying a word and just looking at it. "It was an odd shaped craft which almost looked like the heel of a shoe and it was open halfway and one body was thrown up against the wall of a rocky cliff. "Another one was half in and half out of the craft and when we got in close we noticed that there were three others inside the craft." Kaufmann said that the V-shaped UFO was 6ft tall and 25ft long with a wrap around window at the front. Inside, the control panels were covered with strange writing. "There was no fuel on the craft but the underbelly had a series of cells. You know, quartz type cells, glass looking cells, octagon shaped." Kaufmann and his men loaded the bodies into lead lined body bags and took them with the wreckage back to the Army Air Field at Roswell. "Deterioration was starting to set in on one of the bodies. We noticed the edge of the skin trying to shrivel up and that's the reason we put them into the bags in a hurry to get them to the base hospital. "They didn't look anything like you see portrayed in science fiction magazines - they didn't have any horns or spiny fingers. "They were smooth looking individuals - no hair, very fine skin and a silver type of uniform. "I would say about 5ft 4in od 5ft 6in in height but very fine features, small nose, small ears,and they didn't have any of the big eyes - you know, the slanted eyes of that type." The bodies were laid out in a hangar and examined by several officers and the pathologist from Beaumont General Hospital before being flown on to the US Air Force research and development base in Ohio. At the time Glenn Dennis was a young assistant at Ballard's Funeral Home in Roswell. He still recalls a telephone call from the Roswell Army Air Field mortuary officer in July. "This is just a hypothetical situation but do you have any three or four feet long hermetically sealed caskets?" he asked. The young undertaker told him they only had one and the officer rang off - only to callback an hour later. "How do you handle bodies that have been exposed to the desert for four or five days?" the officer asked. Dennis told him and was assured the information was "just for our files". Later that day Dennis ran into a nurse he knew from the officers club on the base. She told him about the flying saucer and that she had seen alien creatures at the base. "She said that they were little, smaller than an adult human," said Dennis. "She said that the heads were larger than a human's, the eyes were large and had a concave shape, that all the features - the nose, the eyes and ears - were slightly concave." Later he tried to contact the nurse again but, like many of the mysteries surrounding Roswell, she had vanished and he was unable to trace her. The first civilian to find the wreckage was rancher W.W. "Mac" Brazel, now dead, who turned up at Loretta Proctor's ranch on a summer's day in 1947. "He brought a small piece of material up and he said that he couldn't get any of the rest of it loose," she said. "It was different to anything we had ever seen. The material and the way you couldn't burn it and you couldn't cut it. "He described it kinda like aluminium foil, only he said when you crushed it, it straightened back out. It wouldn't hold a crease or anything." Brazeltook the strange foil to local sherriff George Wilcox - who passed him on to the military who put Brazel under lock and key for a week. Brazel started to tell his story to local radio reporter Frank Joyce but, after dealing with the military, Brazel's story had changed to the official line about it being a weather balloon. Joyce was the journalist who broke the UFO story to the world when he filed the press release given to him by the US Army Air Force press officer William Haut. Haut said: "I was instructed to put out a Press release which in effect stated that we had in our possesion a flying saucer and that it was being flown to Eighth Air Force Headquarters, Fort Worth, and that was around noon on July 8." Later that day radio and newspaper editors across the world were buzzing the news that a "flying disc" had been recovered in the desert. But, as the importance of the find scorched across the globe, the Pentagon stepped in. Journalist Joyce received a warning call from Washington that the radio station would lose its licence if it did not kill the story. Then the telegraph wires linking Roswell to the rest of the world mysteriously fell silent. Major Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer at Roswell at the time of the incident, had gone out with Brazel to pick up some of the debris. "I'd never seen anything like that. It was foreign to me and I didn't know what we were picking up," Major Marcel said. But the next day the Press were invited to take pictures of Major Marcel with debris that was clearly tin foil and burnt rubber from a weather balloon. For the military, the story was over. However on his retirement in 1978, before he died, Major Marcel said that the wreckage in the photos was not the debris he and Brazel had collected all those years before. "I knew what a weather balloon is," he said, "That was not what I brought in." Army PR William Haut said of the 1947 photo: "I think it was a cover-up just to bury the whole thing." In 1990 Congressman Steven Schiff began to ask questions in Washington that led to a United States Air Force statement claiming the UFO was really a balloon being used in a top-secret mission against Russia. The US authorities have now changed their minds three times about what they found in the desert in Roswell. Schiff said: "I still find it amazing that the top bomber wing, the only wing eligible to carry nuclear weapons at that particular time, would not know a weather balloon from a flying saucer. "In my mind there a two things about the Roswell incident that are incontravertible: the first is that something crashed. We know that. Second, the kind of handling the material received and the kind of scene coverage was not consistent with a weather balloon. "If nothing else is accomplished, the fact that the military changed its mind after 40 years is to me a remarkable event." THE CASE AGAINST... Col Richard Tungate sifted through the dusty Roswell files and froze - one of the aliens was still alive! "I called the general I was working under and told him to set up a meeting where I could see this being." It was 1952 - five years after the crash at Roswell - and Tungate had been sent to "eliminate and process" the files and photos from the incident. At Los Alamos, Tungate was shown the alien. "First of all they let me see him through a glass. He was wearing a military fatigue jacket and a pair of pants which they had altered because of his small stature. "He was sitting in a room and I sat there and watched him for a while and he moved and came up to the glass and looked directly at me." Unfortunately, this whole story was a hoax. Retired FBI agent Earle Brandon investigated Tungate for the Channel 4 programme 'Incident at Roswell' and shot holes in his story. First, Tungate told him that he had the top level "Q security clearance". But Brandon said: "Those who hold it do not mention they have it." Then the tattooed car mechanic claimed he could not produce his military discharge papers because of the Q clearance - but everybody has the papers, which act like a P45 and do not mention security clearances. Brandon said: "The man is a sad case but at least he has no local police record. He is a harmless loony-toon." People like Richard Tungate muddy the waters for UFO enthusiasts trying to prove that alien space craft really did crash at Roswell in 1947. The United States Air Force finally launched an inquiry into the incident in the 1990's after a series of questions from Congressman Steven Schiff. In its final comment on the incident, the USAF report by director of security Colonel Richard Weaver, said: "The research located no records at existing Air Force offices that indicate any cover-up by the USAF. "Records were located and thoroughly explored concerning a then top-secret balloon project, designed to monitor Soviet nuclear tests, known as Project Mogul. Comparisons indicate that the material recovered near Roswell was consistent with a balloon device and most likely from one of the Mogul balloons that had not previously been recovered. "Air Force research efforts did not disclose any records of the recovery of any alien bodies or extra-terrestrial materials." There was no increase in military activity and the "paper trail" of orders and movements of supplies required for a mjor military incident was missing from the records. And the report did not discuss alien bodies because "the recovered wreckage was from a Project Mogul balloon - there were no alien passengers therein. "Secondly the pro-UFO groups who espouse the alien bodies theories cannot even agree amongst themselves as to what, how many and where such bodies were supposedly recovered." Project Mogul engineer Professor Charles Moore has signed a sworn statement about the then top-secret project giving technical details. He said that radar targets were put on board for tracking balloons through the sky and that early targets had been made up by a toy or novelty company. The targets were made from aluminium foil or foil backed paper and balsa wood beams coated in a special glue for durability and assembled with pink tape covered with meaningless symbols. His description tallies with many statements from people who handled the UFO wreckage. But most telling of all is the statement of Major Irving Newton, a meteorologist, who was called into the commander's office in Fort Worth in 1947 when the wreckage from Roswell was sent there. "I walked into the General's Office where this supposed flying saucer was lying on the floor. "As soon as I saw it I giggled and asked if that was the flying saucer and they said it was." Newton then said: "Well, hell no. That's a target and balloon and if it isn't I'd eat it without salt and pepper." * The Roswell File by Tim Shawcross is published by Bloomsbury on 5th June 1997 at 16 pounds 99 pence. Letters ------- From: "Kev[in] Donnelly" <ufo@magi2.demon.co.uk> Date sent: Saturday 7th June 1997 Elitism in the ufological field is not welcome I have been a long term member of the undernet channel #ufo and despite this years lack of openness regarding skywatch '97 [due to it being on private land]. . . Also, please ensure that your skywatch '98 is on public land so that ALL uk.ufo.nw members are welcome, elitism in the ufological field is not welcome. There are many people such as myself who have had an avid interest in ufology, #ufo on undernet AND uk.ufo.nw since well before skywatch '96 [for which I personally was invited but due to priar arrangments [a cousins wedding] was unable to attend who would love to be included in the '97 affair. It seems that rising paranoia and unsuitable surrounding prevent this. . . Aside from the regrettable elitism in this years skywatch, congrats on a good and worthwhile newsletter and orginization. Maybe we will meet at this years bufora conferance...... regards Kevin Donnelly uk.ufo.nw replies: Thanks Kevin for the praise on the e-zine. We try our best. Please accept our apologies for our particular skywatch this year not being open to the general public. There are a few reasons for this. The land we are using this year in Wales is private and the owners will only allow a limited number of people on it. Organising an event which is open to the public, is a big responsibility. Believe us, we looked into this last year before skywatch 96. As an organiser your responsibilities do not stop at just inviting people to attend. There are certain legalities which need to be taken into consideration. 'What if someone injures themselves', 'What if someone damages property and/or land we are meeting on', 'What about toilet facilities, first aid', the list could go on and on. We do not have the time or finances to cover all of these. Therefore it is sometimes easier and less worrying to organise just a small group as we have done this year. However may I suggest that you get together with some friends etc, pick a site where you would like to hold your skywatch and go for it. Remember though that nearly all land is owned by someone. Write to them explaining what you wish to do, as we did to Staffordshire Council for our skywatch at Cannock Chase last year. ** Mr Donnelly's reply to uk.ufo.nw: Date: Monday 16th June 1997 May I be the first to thankyou for looking at my letter wherever possible in an objective sense. The beliefs I expressed were essentially heartfelt and so at times my first letter was a little agressive in it's beliefs. Thankyou for looking past this and [hopefully] taking on board some of the opinions which were expressed. On my part I can understand the reasons behind your actions to make this a small scale affair this year, but although I did feel this was inapropriate my main objection was to the way that until very-recently [last UK-UFO-NW letter {75}] the whole skywatch '97 was veiled in a sad need-to-know secrecy pact, as reflected in the candid nature of other invitee's. Whilst I cannot essentially agree with you on all front's I understand that as I do not hold the burden of responsibility I can be much more idealistic in my opinions. Mr Kevin Donnelly --- From: david@stack.nl I would like to post a message about the fact that I am looking for people that want to travel with me to Roswell early july (to Encounter '97). I'm looking for Dutch people. If anyone would like further information please get in touch with me at my e-mail address. Thanks David van der Veer --- From: f11c007@ksu.edu.sa Hello there, I was wondering if there is a United States UFO network? Could you give me the address of it if you know of any, or anything like it that involves the U.S? uk.ufo.nw says: Can any member assist? --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. If you are using at least one of the following web browers: Netscape 3 ++ MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ Simply visit one of the below url's (world wide web) addresses. When the 'ultrachat' page has loaded you will see a large grey filled box somewhere on the screen. It may then take a few more seconds for the java script to load and run. The grey area will then turn white and you will be asked to enter a nickname. Your own name or a nickname will suffice here. Once you press return you will be presented with various bits of information scrolling up the screen. After a few seconds you will be connected to the uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel. Down the right hand side of the screen you will see a list of the people currently on channel. At the bottom of the screen is where you type your messages. The large upper left section of the screen is were you read and follow the proceedings of the meetings. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.elector.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm http://razorsedge.dyndns.com/~lwelch The uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visit the channel at any time. There is usually someone there to talk to. For those of you needing help connecting with dedicated irc programs such as the excellent MIRC send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? From: xalium@netwrx.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:00:00 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:56:32 -0400 Subject: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? After yesterdays skywatch with taping over 7 unknowns. It seems to be getting stranger everyday. I think we may have seen a Hockey Puck on the ground. While doing our usual commute from Tucson to Phoenix, which we do 4 days a week. I saw a strange metallic object on the side of a Mountain peak. I pointed this out to my brother Rob and we watched it for about 10 minutes. It seems to pulse, and after viewing it for sometime we ruled out a car next to the peak, or someone holding up a large mirror reflecting the Sun. What we saw was a metal object. The mountain was over 20 miles away from our position. After 10 minutes of watching it, while driving at 75 mph heading towards the Mountain. The object suddenly vanished, only to reappear 1 minute later on another part of the Mountain. It moved over 4 miles in one minute and appeared to be the samething at a different location. We couldn't figure out what could be up there producing this. At this point we were kicking ourself in the ass for not bringing a videocamera to work. We lost sight of it as a another Mountain blocked our view for 10 minutes until we passed it. As the Mountain came back into view again the object was gone. More shocking to me was I realized we were looking at the Estrella Mountains. These mountains are part of the Gila River Indian Reservation and were one of the sights the March 13, UFO was located. The Estrella Mountains have been a hot spot to see UFOs for the past 3 years so maybe it was a Hockey Puck sitting up there. We have decided to get to the bottom of this sightings by going up there. The object just happened to be near the peak (4,000 ft). There is no way to drive up so its a long dangerous Mountain climb. We'll videotape the exact position and look for traces of people being there or UFOS. Now these damn Hockey Pucks have us climbing Mountains looking for them. Whats next? Tom King AZ Dir SKYWATCH INT'L E-Mail xalium@netwrx.net OVNI CHAPTERHOUSE http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Other Great Cases [was Woodstock] From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:24:58 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:55:07 -0400 Subject: Other Great Cases [was Woodstock] >From: meccam@205.252.116.10 >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:36:04 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Woodstock' >> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:38:23 +0200 (MET DST) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >> I publish a UFO newsletter every week and have included a commentary >> about the Roswell events. >> <Snip most> >> There are far more compelling and better documented cases than >> this one.... Finally there is the testimony of Dr. Valery Dvuzhilni of >> the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow who said in the recent >> Discovery Channel documentary 'UFOs: Down to Earth' that what >> crashed near Dalnegorsk in Siberia in 1984 was an extrater- >> restrial spaceship. Not on the basis of witness testimony, as in >> the case of Roswell, but on the basis of ten years of materials >> analysis of the retrieved debris. >Henny, where can we find more details about this case? Seems to me very >very little comes across the water from Eastern Europe - point us in the >right direction, if you can, and thanks!!!!!! > Hi Melanie, I wish I had more details. I have seen the interview for the first time in October 1996 or thereabouts on Discovery. The production was done by Four Winds Productions, if I remember correctly. The interview with Dvuzhilni was done by George Knapp, anchorman of KLAS-TV of Las Vegas, and well known UFO researcher. Dvuzhilni was the head of the research team. The debris was under study by five Russian laboratories, but Dvuzhilni was the only scientist willing to comment. I was surprised that I could not find more information about this case, but later I read in the UK UFO Magazine that the Russian authorities had prohibited more interviews. The only other thing that springs to mind is that Dvuzhilni had written a 170 page report about the case that he showed on tv and that he had identified the materials. There was gold involved, but the rest of this part was not translated. He had identified the craft as a reconnaissance probe. If George Knapp will attend the Roswell celebrations, please ask him about the case and, if you will, inform us. What is so interesting about this case is that we have a real scientist here who was willing to go on camera and state there was an ET craft involved. Frankly, I think if Roswell is worth an international initiative to disclose "the facts", then this case should certainly deserve the same, doesn't it? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Crash 'Dummies' From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:09:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:36:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Crash 'Dummies' >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:06:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Crash 'Dummies' >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:45:39 -0700 >>From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Crash Dummies >Robert writes, >>The latest government authorized Roswell tale is so >>strangely unbelievable that we may begin to consider >>whether the official show is directed by human beings. >For the airforce to continue to offer updated and embellished >explanations for 'Roswell' seems to me one of the strongest >arguments (for) the case! And yes, the tactics are so 'out of >it' that it could just as easily have come from someone unfamiliar >with human 'common sense' or psychology! <G> >> "Rot it from the core." - Machiavelli. >These guys are not monuments of 'ethical tactics' that's for sure! <G> >>Mull this over. Why does the Air Force feel any >>obligation to say any thing at all about the bodies? >>Who initiated this idiocy? >The obvious answer would be, "an idiot!" <G> >Given careful consideration, it becomes quite plain >and obvious that these are the desperate acts of desperate men! >One of the first reactions I had to the news of this report was, >"Damn, the pressure must really be getting to these guys." >It reeks of desperation, grasping at straws. If the report is >any indication, the 'rats' are stirring in the walls! >Why does the airforce feel the need to explain the bodies >indeed!?! <EG> >John Velez (Nobodys fool) Hey John, Do you think that maybe it was an A-10 that crashed at Roswell, and the Air Force doesn't want to admit it? After all, five nuclear bombs would make something worth covering up back in 47, wouldn't it? Ha, ha, ha... Shades of the Philaelphia experiment all over again.. But, what the heck, that is about a plausable as some of the stuff they are dumping on us. <G> REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 USAF Roswell Report Out! MSNBC Coverage From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:36:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:37:11 -0400 Subject: USAF Roswell Report Out! MSNBC Coverage Can be found on: http://www.msnbc.com/news/82002.asp The Real Audio links are in brackets. =20 Air Force takes another look at Roswell=20 Reports of aliens traced to dummy tests, air accidents=20 =20 MSNBC =20 In a new report, the U.S. Air Force says experiments involving human-size dummies and accidents involving military personnel during the 1950s probably helped inspire long-lived reports that a flying saucer crashed in New Mexico in 1947. =20 "The Roswell Report: Case Closed" follows a 1995 Air Force study saying that debris recovered 50 years ago near Roswell, N.M., was connected with Project Mogul, a top-secret operation to use weather balloons and radar equipment to monitor Soviet nuclear blasts. When the wreckage was first found, the Army Air Force briefly reported that a "flying disk" had been retrieved - but the report was withdrawn within hours. Questions about the Roswell incident resurfaced in the 1980s, when UFO researchers seized on eyewitness reports about the purported recovery of alien bodies and wreckage. The Air Force stuck by its Project Mogul explanation for the wreckage near Roswell. But it noted that "lingering questions" remained about the reports of bodies. =20 Based on a review of its records and interviews with witnesses, the Air Force says "activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947." Among the report=92s conclusions: *The alien bodies observed in the New Mexico desert "were probably anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high-altitude balloons for scientific research." The dummies were dropped from the balloons and examined for the effect of the impact. *Reports of unusual military activity in the desert match up with the Air Force=92s procedure for retrieving debris from the dummy tests. *Claims that bodies were taken to the Roswell Army Air Field probably refer to a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members were killed, and a 1959 manned-balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured. The report was written by Air Force Capt. James McAndrew, who also wrote the 1995 Roswell report. A copy of the new study was obtained by NBC News in advance of its scheduled release Tuesday. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Tuesday marks the 50th anniversary of the first flying-saucer sighting, reported by Boise, Idaho, businessman Kenneth Arnold as he flew over Washington state=92s Cascade Mountains. Advance word of the new report has been circulating for more than a week, and some UFO investigators have harshly criticized the Air Force=92s contention that Roswell witnesses confused events that occurred more than a decade apart. ("It=92s an absolute insult to the intelligence of the American people,=94 said Dennis Balthaser, operations manager for the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell.") Investigator Karl Pflock, who has concluded that the Roswell saucer tale doesn=92t hold up, said the Air Force rushed its report into publication to counter the 50th-anniversary hoopla over UFOs. ("People who want to believe in Roswell, as well as the people like myself who are convinced that Roswell was something mundane ... will find it laughable,") Pflock said. Jerry Clark of the Center for UFO Studies wondered why the Air Force felt the need to come out with an explanation for "alien bodies" at all, particularly since the explanation was "not terribly persuasive." "Because the evidence for alien bodies is intriguing but evidentially thin, I think it=92s odd that the Air Force felt it had to explain these reports," he said. "It just seems an exercise that undercuts itself. ... When you do this, you=92re going one step toward explaining that something extraordinary may have happened." =BF =20 =A9 1997 MSNBC =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Air Force Says UFO's Were Dummies From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:38:25 -0400 Subject: Air Force Says UFO's Were Dummies --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Air Force Says UFO's Were Dummies Date: 97-06-23 18:27:58 EDT From: AOL News WASHINGTON (AP) - In a report meant to close the door on a long-running UFO mystery, the Air Force said space aliens allegedly sighted in the New Mexico desert in the 1940s were actually dummies used in high-altitude parachute drops. Philip Klass, publisher of a UFO skeptics newsletter, said the Air Force concluded that reports of alien bodies at a crash site near Roswell, N.M., in 1947 were actually mistaken recollections of dummies used in Air Force drops in the 1950s. Klass said he saw the report, which is being officially released on Tuesday. Air Force public affairs officers refused to discuss its contents in advance, although word of the conclusions circulated widely in the network of UFO buffs. Karl Pflock, a UFO researcher who does not believe the Roswell incident involved either a spacecraft or alien bodies, said Monday he had not read the report. He questioned the Air Force's theory, however, that those who claimed to have seen the crash debris and the alien bodies could have mixed up the crash, which was in 1947, with dummy parachute tests that took place as much as a decade later. AP-NY-06-23-97 1819EDT Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 UFO Poll From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:03:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:44:14 -0400 Subject: UFO Poll Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Note: permission is granted to reproduce the following, provided that credit is given to Bufo�s WEIRD WORLD, and Bufo Calvin is notified of the publication. For more information, please contact Bufo Calvin. MOST SIGNIFICANT UFO EVENT OF THE PAST FIFTY YEARS On June 24 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold, flying in the area of Mount Rainier, Washington State, reported that he had seen nine strange objects that bounced up and down as they flew, �...like a saucer would if you skipped it across water.� He calculated their speed as well beyond that of known aircraft of the day. The story gripped the media, and the �flying saucers� entered our popular culture. In the fifty years since, UFOs (as they later became known), have made the news over and over again. Through my newsletter, Bufo�s WEIRD WORLD, I polled 25,000 people for their answers to the question, �What is the most significant UFO event of the past fifty years?� Listeners to the national radio programs, THE EDGE OF REALITY and SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO, were also invited to participate. The answers, as listed below in order of the most popular, reflect the variety of these types of reports. Real or not, there is no denying their impact. 1.THE ROSWELL INCIDENT 30% For the next two weeks following the Arnold sighting, papers all over the country were full of sightings. It seemed the flying saucers were everywhere. Many people feared that they represented a Russian secret weapon, and there was considerable pressure on the Army Air Force to find out what they were. On July 8, the ROSWELL DAILY RECORD responded to an official military press release which suggested the answer was at hand with the following headline, �RAAF CAPTURES FLYING SAUCER ON RANCH IN ROSWELL REGION�. The next day, the Air Force provided an alternative explanation, saying that it was a weather balloon and a case of mistaken identity. The story died there, rarely even appearing in flying saucer books, until 1978. That�s when Jesse Marcel, Sr., the intelligence officer who was the first investigator on the scene, publicly claimed it was no weather balloon. In the years since, researchers have claimed to have found hundreds of witnesses to whatever happened. The story has grown to include multiple possible crash sites, alien bodies being found, living aliens being found, a special government agency being set up as a result of it, American use of alien technology, etc. Several books have been written about the case, television programs have covered it, mainstream magazines have given it the cover story, and it has gotten into the popular culture, particularly in the smash hit movie, INDEPENDENCE DAY. Many theories have been advanced, including a report from the Pentagon in 1994 saying it was not a weather balloon, but a surveillance balloon. There is no question that Roswell is the highest profile UFO case at this time. 2.NO EVENT OF SIGNIFICANCE 17% This may be somewhat surprising, but the second most popular choice was that there is nothing of significance to come out of UFO reports. My readership runs the gamut from true believers to skeptics, and the latter have made their opinions clear. 3.1952 WASHINGTON D.C. SIGHTINGS 10% It started on July 19, twenty-five years ago. Strange flying objects were reportedly over the Capital of the United States! A week later, they reappeared. Jets were scrambled, and the objects were recorded on radar. By Monday, it was front-page news: �FIERY OBJECTS OUTRUN JETS OVER CAPITAL�. The Air Force reported that the events were due to �atmospheric inversions�. This verdict was not accepted by many members of the press, and during the rest of the year, several articles would appear alleging that the explanation was false, and possibly part of a cover-up. 4.RENDLESHAM/BENTWATERS MILITARY ENCOUNTER 6% Some of the extraordinary elements of this British encounter became public through the use of the American Freedom of Information Act. This was because it took place at the joint USA/UK airbase at Woodbridge in Suffolk. Allegedly, the Americans asked the British for permission to investigate some lights in the forest in December of 1980. As related by the deputy base commander, they encountered a pyramid-shaped craft with lights that maneuvered through the trees. 5.CROP CIRCLES 4% These designs in British cropfields have become increasingly intricate over the years. Many theories have been advanced, including claims of hoaxing. The connection with traditional UFOs is more tenuous, but certainly, there are people who feel these are the works of extraterrestrials. 5..MEXICO CITY SIGHTINGS 4% Beginning with an eclipse in 1991, many apparent UFOs have been photographed and videotaped over Mexico City. While not discussed extensively in the U.S. media, the hundreds of witnesses involved have convinced some investigators of their authenticity. 5.PRESIDENT CARTER RESPONDS 4% While a candidate, Jimmy Carter admitted having had a UFO sighting in 1969. He indicated he would re-open the issue as President. The White House did ask NASA to be involved in a new UFO study, and they declined. 5.ROSWELL AS HOAX 4% Respondents also suggested that Roswell has been shown to be false, and that this elimination of the �smoking gun� was highly significant. 5.STEVEN GREER CALLS UFO 4% Dr. Steven Greer is head of CSETI, and organization which seeks to initiate UFO encounters through �calling them down� by technological and mental means. Particular success was claimed at Alton Barnes, in England, in July of 1992 5.PERSONAL EXPERIENCES 4% Several respondents nominated their own personal sightings. 11.BELGIAN TRIANGLES 3% Beginning in 1989, a many people in Belgium reported seeing triangular flying craft. These reports made international news, and were compared to similar sightings elsewhere. 12.KENNETH ARNOLD 2% The Kenneth Arnold sighting of June 24 1947 set off the modern interest in unidentified flying objects. 12.VANDENBURG�S REJECTION 2% In September of 1948, the Air Force�s Project Sign brought the AF�s Chief of Staff, General Hoyt S. Vandenburg, an official �Estimate of the Situation�. It concluded that flying saucers were probably real, and probably came from outer space. General Vandenburg rejected the report, feeling it wasn�t justified by the data. 12.INCIDENT AT EXETER 2% Exeter, New Hampshire, was the focal point of a large series of sightings which took place primarily in September, 1965. Through a best-selling book, this �flap� became well-known nationally. 13.THE WALTON EXPERIENCE 1% On November 5 1975, Travis Walton was allegedly zapped by a UFO in front of six witnesses. He was then missing for five days, provoking a huge manhunt and accusations of murder against his coworkers. After he returned, he eventually related a story of having been inside a flying saucer. 13.THE SOCORRO SAUCER 1% On April 24, 1964, a Police Officer named Lonnie Zamora saw an egg-shaped craft on the ground near Socorro, New Mexico. He also saw two small beings near-by. After it took off, it apparently left marks in the area. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, official Air Force investigator, was impressed with the case. HONORABLE MENTIONS My readers were allowed to make honorable mentions as well. By far the most popular event was the recent (March 13, 1997) sightings in the Phoenix area. The second most popular ones were a tie between the Betty and Barney Hill case, from September 1961, which was the first well-known abduction case, and the Gulf Breeze, Florida, sightings and photographs, which began in 1987 and continue today. The other honorable mentions were a hodge-podge of alleged sightings (including: the Cash-Landrum case in December of 1980, in which witnesses who appeared to suffer radiation poisoning sued the government; the July 1 1965 case from Valensole, France, where a lavender farmer encountered a craft and two entities; the October 18, 1973 airborne encounter between a helicopter and a cigar-shaped craft near Mansfield, Ohio; the October 12, 1973 abduction of two people fishing in Pascagoula, Mississippi by three bizarre, one-legged, wrinkly-skinned, clawed beings; the apparent abduction of Frederick Valentich and his aircraft while in flight over the Bass Strait, Australia, on October 21, 1978; and the alleged capture of at least one living alien in Varhingha, Brazil in January of 1996); the work of investigators and authors (including Emmy-winner Linda Moulton Howe, an expert in cattle mutilations; best-selling author and abductee, Whitley Strieber; Richard Hoagland, chief proponent of the �Face on Mars�� and abductee and author Karla Turner); the alien autopsy film, which purports to show just that; the television miniseries of Budd Hopkins� book INTRUDERS; observations of increased media coverage of UFOs; and fictional depictions, like CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND and X-FILES.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Roswell gun camera photo From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:45:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell gun camera photo In a message dated 97-06-24 01:37:38 EDT, you write: > Subj: UFO UpDate: Roswell gun camera photo > Date: 97-06-24 01:37:38 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:09:00 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> > Subject: Roswell gun camera photo > I recently heard a suggestion that the gun camera picture has been exposed > as a fake. Can anyone on the list confirm this? The Roswell gun camera photograph I heard about was being distributed by a discredited, alleged NASA scientest Lee Shargel. Lee claimed (amongst many other wild stories) that on Jan 23 1997 ET radio waves would bathe the earth and it would start a new beginning for humanity. It didn't happen, and at a UFO conference after that he was showing an alleged Roswell gun camera photo. Needless to say he has a big credibility problem. > I am particularly interested because, after sighting here in Australia, the > witnesses produced a drawing that had a strong resemblance to the craft > allegedly photographed over Roswell. Needless to say, the sighting was > before the Roswell photo was published. **Note their are some real gun camera movies and photos on file at the National Archives in the Project Bluebook files. Good luck with your research. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Big Hanger From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:22:46 -0400 Subject: Big Hanger All of the speculation on the Internet and in the media lately about the big V that was seen flying over Arizona in March has raised some interesting questions. Richard Boylan released a statement recently saying this could very likely be a military achievement. This is a possibility that should certainly be taken seriously however, this raises a very interesting question. When most of the Arizona witnesses gave estimates of the size of the V-shaped UFO the results yielded roughly something around 6000 feet across at it's longest point. This would suggest a lateral dimension of about a mile. Does anyone know of an aircraft hanger that is a mile long?...Could a hanger like that be stored somehwere in Nellis, China Lake, or maybe Helendale? Storing an aircraft this big seems like a logistical nightmare. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 El Yunque - Alien Habitat? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:49:29 -0400 Subject: El Yunque - Alien Habitat? From: Jorge Martin <jmartin@coqui.net> Note: Thanks to Jorge for this sneak preview of his soon to be published=20 book.=20 ________________________________________________ El Yunque: Alien Habitat in Puerto Rico? By Jorge Mart=EDn C. 1997, Puerto Rico. All rights reserved by Jorge Mart=EDn. Excerpts from the book =93El Yunque: Alien Habitat=94 [ Soon to be published ] The Caribbean National Rain Forest, known also to the puertorrican people as El Yunque, this after the name of the most important mountain in the area, which was regarded by our long extinct Ta=EDno indians as the =91Sacre= d Mountains where the Gods lived=92, has been a place where, for centuries, strange things happen. There ara many legends a bout the area, but in recent decades the legends have been accompanied by the accounts of literally hundreds of people who assure they have encountered UFOs or flying saucer type crafts and strange humanoid creatures, among other things, at the site. In this article, we present several such incidents, excerpted from a book of ours soon to be published, for the readers to gat an idea of the importance of the situation, a situation that hardly known to the UFO commmunity outside Puerto Rico.=20 Radio contact with UFO ocupant?=20 Naguabo is a town next to the National Caribbean Rain Forest. It is located at the foothills of mountains such as Pico del Este, where the U.S. NAVY has powerful radar systems, and is one of the towns to the east of Puerto Rico that surrounds Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, a main U.S. military base. Mrs. Lucrecia Rosa and her family live in an urban development sector , and they have had several experiences with the UFO / alien phenomenon, always related to the rain forest. In year 1976 she had a peculiar experience. Lucrecia is a ham radio/CB radio enthusiast and as a hobby she communicates with other people. By then, they were living in Villa del Rosario, a sector right in front of Pico del Este, where, at its summit, the U.S. NAVY radar systems are=20 located. One night, she was trying to contact her son through her CB system, and as she was sitting next to an open window that allowed her a view of Pico del Este, a strange sounding voice came suddenly through the receiver.=20 =93It was a male=92s voice with a strange accent, speaking in spanish language, but not with puertorrican or american accent...It was something different - she said-. The voice said it was =93...from the flying saucer=94. I believed someone was joking with me and asked who it was, and the voice said that in a moment he=92d pass in front of me and I would be able to see him. Suddenly everything outside was engulfed in a bright white light and my CB went dead. At first I believed it was a car... I tried to copy the voice, the radio came back,but it sounded as if coming from very far away... This light frightened me. The voice sounded as if garbled, distorted, and it was saying that he, whoever it was, was the one in the flying saucer...Those were his exact words, flying saucer. =93I looked out the window and there was a huge bright object engulfed in white light. It was egg shaped, and it made a pass in front of the house. That was the light source. It then flew away to the east, towards Fajardo, and dissapeared.=94=20 Amazing! Did someone from the UFO actually communicated with Mrs. Rosa? Was the =91ufonaut=92 =91joking=92 with her...or was he communicating with someone else in the immediate area, and she accidentally picked up his frequency due to his closeness to her CB radio unit? Was this =91someone else=92 from Roosevelt Roads Naval Station...or maybe from El Yunque, the rain forest? Whoever was on board the luminous object spoke in spanish language, even though in a garbled manner and with an undistinguishable accent. So, who was =91he=92 talking to in the area?=20 During our interview to her and her husband, Mr. Jos=E9 Rosa, they revealed several other weird happenings they had experienced before. Years ago the couple used to visit El Yunque Rain Forest, going up road 191 from Naguabo, from the back side of the rain forest. At first they went up there just for fun, but one day, as they arrived to the spot of the road in which there=92s a barricade and the road is closed off and restricted by the authorities because of a landslide [at least this is the official explanation given for restricting the area], and took a turn to the right and entered the forest, they noticed several figures of what seemed to be small sized grey beings with big oval shaped heads and dark eyes, who aprochached them moving very fast running from tree to tree in a whooshing zig zagging motion.=20 =93After that happened - said Lucrecia-,weboth felt this strange urge t o go up there by night, and whenever we did we encountered these creatures...but we used to fall in like a trance...Later on we came out from that state without knowing what had happened and with a time loss of about one to two hours. Then we began seeing this figures in our home, that=92s when we decided not to go back ever to that area. We were very nervous for some time. And we still don=92t know what really happened in those ocassions we were in trance up there after seeing them. =93These sort of things have happened in the forest and all this region since I was 12 years old, that I remember. Everyone here used to see luminous things and balls of light flying out from the mountains there, and it was said they were =91witches=92 flying out from the place=92, now we know better=94, said finally Mrs. Rosa. It was a big headed thing... Also in 1977, in June, Miss Cecilia P=E9rez, who lives in Hato Rey, was visiting El Verde mountain sector [also part of the National Caribbean Rain Forest] with a friend, when they had an encounter with another strange creature.=20 They had parked their car in a parking lot next to the Quebrada Grande river site in road 186 and were viewing the San Juan metropolitan area from up there as they talked. It was already about 6:00 P.M. when Cecilia noticed a small ball of light, like a ping-pong sized luminous ball of light: =93That ball of light - she said-,flew around the car on two ocassions . I pointed it to my friend and he said: =91Bah! It must be a firefly.=92 But that was no firefly. It came back and made another pass around us. I saw it very clearly, and I was sure it was no firefly at all. The second time it came I had a strong feeling of being watched. It was weird. It was a very strong feeling. I asked him to leave the place, but he refused to do so. I looked around and that=92s when I noticed a person...=20 I=92d say a person...It was about four ft. tall, that came out from the brush there in the forest to the right of us. I saw this figure looking at us from the bushes. It was something strange. I couldn=92t see it very clearly, but whatever it was it had a big head and was looking straight at us,=94 she said.=20 =93I was nervous, and told my friend about that thing there and he wouldn=92t believe me. He couldn=92t see it. He said: =91There=92s nothing there, nothing.=92 But then he gave a good look out again as that thing came out a little more as if to get closer to the car, and my friend said =91Hey! You are right! There=92s something out there!=92 =93Then it came closer. What I saw there was something of a greenish-grayish color, and with a big head and big black elongated eyes, almost no nose and a small slitlike mouth. It had long arms and hands and was very skinny. It seemed to be naked and its arms were longer than ours in proportion.=20 =93When that thing came out from the bushes I began screaming and my friend became very upset and nervous and grabbed a gun, a .357 caliber Magnum he had under his car=92s seat and aimed it at the creature. I grabbed his hand and prevented him from shooting as I yelled at him not to shoot it, that that was not a person. At that moment the creature ran away very fast, in an instant, into the forest. I grabbed the gun from his hands and he, in a frantic state, started the car and we left the place in a hurry, not stopping until we were down in Carolina. He became sick from the experience. That was the last time we went out together, because I didn=92t like the way he reacted and tried to shoot at that creature.=94=09 She continued: =93That thing=92s skin seemed to me more like a lizard=92 s skin than anything else, but a smooth one =94, said Cecilia.=20 She said she didn=92t knew why she prevented her friend from shooting at the creature, =93I only felt that it wasn=92t right to do that. It was as if that thing was just curious about us and wanted to see us a little closer. I don=92t think it would have harmed us. I had the feeling that it wanted to communicate with me=94, she said finally.=20 During our conversation she revealed that in 1972 she had had a previous experience in which she was abducted from her room late one night by tall blond humanlike alien beings dressed in bright red coverall type suits that examined her aboard a ufo and then returned her home. Her parents, Mr. Rosario P=E9rez and Mrs. Cela Torres, heard a strong buzzing sound and went to her room to see what was producing it. They found her in a paralyzed state, and following the sound they both moved to Cecilia=92s room window. Surprised, they saw a big boomerang shaped craft with a blue luminous aura all around it flying away from the house in the night sky over Hato Rey, where they live. We verified this with her parents afterwards.This other experience of hers will be examined in another book we are currently preparing on UFO abductions in Puerto Rico. The forest was full of =91things=92... By the end of June, 1977, Mrs. Leonides Maldonado, who resides in Bayam=F3n, Puerto Rico, visited El Yunque together with her husband Angel Luis L=F3pez and their children...and had a strange experience at the site, specially her. They arrived early in the morning, at about 7:30 A.M., and prepared themselves to spend the day at the place in a picnic, enjoying the beauty of the forest . Informed of their experience by a common friend, we contacted Mrs. Maldonado, who explained that once there, after preparing their camp site, her husband and children walked off to do some sightseeing and maybe do some swimming in one of the rivers and she lied down in the cabin they were staying at, next to the swimming pool area, in the sector of the Caimitillo lane that goes up to Mount Britton - El Yunque mountains. She lied down, enjoying the quietness of the place and the breeze and started doing a relaxation exercise...Everything was O.K., but suddenly, she said, she felt afraid! Even though she couldn=92t see anything, she felt =93being watched by many eyes there in the forest. It was an overwhelming sensation.=94 Looking out she observed, in a strange groggy state, there were many strange, incredible beings hiding and moving between the trees and bushes in the forest who were watching her =93...and who wanted to control my mind=94, she said. =93I felt as if they wanted to take control of my mind...- she stated-, and I tried to get up and run away, reach my husband and children. but I couldn=92t move..I was paralyzed, feeling stiff. That was at about 11:00 A.M. They looked like elongated figures, dark... Somewhat humanlike in complexion, shape, but... But I didn=92t feel they wanted to harm me. After realizing or =91feeling=92 they didn=92t want to harm me I =91felt=92= that the place was full of those creatures, many of them..But they didn=92t show themselves openly. But I was able to see they had elongated big heads, small mouths opened in a circular fashion and short pointy ears... I don=92t recall any nose...Big black eyes? Something like that. They were about four ft. tall and with long egg shaped heads. Well, something weird. They had long skinny arms that tapered down to their knees.=94 =93I felt hot. It was a strange sensation, some type of tingling hot vibration running all over my body, but I fought this sensation off and I was able to move, get up and and run to where my husband and children were. As I reached them, one of my children yelled at me: =91Mommy, let=92s get out of here. There=92s something weird here. We feel strange!=92=20 =93I hadn=92t told them anything yet, and they already were feeling the same sensation I was feeling. We all felt being watched by someone, and as my youngest son said that he was seeing some =91things=92 that were crossing very fast from tree to tree, almost not visible, like a flash, I explained what had happened to me and we picked up everything and abandoned the site at once.=94=20 Mrs. Maldonado added that about 10 years ago, while participating as a student in a Yoga school in Hato Rey, a young female student at the center whose name was Carmen [last name not available] revealed to her she had experienced an encounter with several small big headed humanoid creatures in El Yunque Rain Forest while staying in one of the cabins there. The young woman was still very impressed with her encounter.=20 Leonides explained her what she had experienced in the forest and Carmen was very surprised with her account , stating she hadn=92t talked to anyone about her own experience before, as she was afraid people would say she was crazy. It was a relief to her to know Leonides experience. Leonides Mercado and her family have never returned to the rain forest. again. Huge UFO =91with problems=92 in El Yunque - Encounter with =91little man=92 On Tuesday January 31, 1989, Mrs. Mariana Rivera, 67 years old, and Mrs. Elida Nieves, residents of Montebello urban development, in Malpica sector, in Rio Grande, right in front of El Yunque/El Verde mountains, saw at 9:30 P.M. a huge diskshaped craft as it flew over Mariana=92s residence and headed towards El Yunque. They were talking when they heard a loud droning, rumbling vibrating sound overhead. As Mariana=92s house vibrated, they went out to the balcony trying to see the origin of it. Once there they saw the huge disk shaped UFO. The strange craft was flying in a zig-zag motion.=20 =93It was huge - said Mariana- , round, like a plate, metallic gray. Lik e lead colored. It was also surrounded by a light, like an aura of whitish light. As soon as we saw it the diskstarted issuing out from its sides like a mist, a cloud, and was enveloping itself in that mist, like in a cloud. You know; as if to disguise itself...That=92s what we thought when we saw that. =93It was coming down, as if to land. The rumbling sound was louder, and the ceiling [ zinc metal panels ceiling] was vibrating so hard that I believed it would fall off. That object was heading straight to El Yunque mountain, right to the antennaes area, at the summit. After it flew over the antennaes it went down and dissapeared there between the mountains. It enve-loped itself in the cloud and the light and dissapeared. We could hear its rumbling sound for some time after we lost it from sight. To me, that thing was heading to Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, and could have hid in the mountains to avoid being=20 observed by too many people.=94 Mrs. Rivera and Elida believe the huge disk had =93some type of problems=94, mechanical malfunctions, because at moments it would wobble in the air and then it would continue on flying.=20 Mariana Rivera had seen other UFOs before, this in year 1982, when she was accompanying a friend of hers, an american woman, who was driving her car. Mariana was in the passenger=92s seat. They were heading to church when all of a sudden the lady stepped on the brakes and very alarmed told her to look up to the sky... =93There were three UFOs flying in a perfect triangular formation - said Mrs. Rivera. They were saucer shaped and had blinking lights all around them. That was in 65th. Infantry road [road #3], coming from Luquillo to Rio Grande. The saucers were flying towards El Yunque, and descending. Very serene...noiseless. They originally came from the sea [north]. My friend was terrified, because she had never seen anything like this before.=94 In summer of year 1984, the same year of an alleged UFO crash in El Yunque Rin Forest, Mrs. Rivera participated in a family picnic up in El Yunque, together with her daughter, son in law, grandchildren and other relatives. Four cars full of people were part of the group.=20 At about 5:30 P.M., as they were driving down road 191, right in front of =91La Coca=92 waterfall, all four cars stalled and lost all power. They parked at the edge of the road and the men checked the cars. They couldn=92t find the reason for their malfunctioning...and all four at the same time...Something weird was going on. Mrs. Rivera got off the van her grandson was driving. Suddenly, she =91felt=92 a strange urge to look in a certain direction to her left, =93...and there, right next to =91La Coca=92 waterfall - she said-, a little man was standing!=20 She continued her account: =93He was standing very still, observing very attentively what the kids were doing with the cars. I stared at him and apparently he felt my stare, because just as soon he glanced at me too. He looked at me with two big dark eyes. They were round, elogated and dark. He was very thin, skinny, but a complete man...Only it was a little man. His head was round, a little bigger than ours. But what really called my attentionwere his eyes...They were very expresive. You know, these beings, whatever they are, they are very sensitive. As soon as he felt my stare he looked at me. And they are very fast, swift, because as soon as he saw me looking at him he ran...like a flash...whooosh!, and dissapeared running very fast up the waterfall=92s area slope. His mouth and nose were very small, almost indistiguishable. He had small pointy ears and his skin was grayish-green. He was not human, I=92m sure of that. And he was dressed in a tightfitting one piece white suit adorned with something blue on the chest area.=20 =93Mart=EDn, I=92ll tell, you this... After seeing and hearing many othe r such things from others with experiences in El Yunque, I thinkthere=92s some type of alien base up there. These beings, these aliens are somewhere up there and to me they are protecting something there, they are assigned to the place to do something. That=92s my feeling on all of this.=94
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 AUFORA: AF has new Roswell explanation From: Dave Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:17:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:52:14 -0400 Subject: AUFORA: AF has new Roswell explanation AUFORA News Update Monday, June 23rd, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ _______________________ AIR FORCE HAS NEW ROSWELL EXPLANATION By Rene Romo LAS CRUCES -- What Roswell residents thought were hairless extraterrestrials who crashed to earth in July 1947 were just dummies used in 1950s parachuting experiments, according to a report the Air Force plans to release soon. The report will try to address complaints that a 1994 Air Force report, which explained alleged flying saucer debris as the remains of top-secret high-altitude balloons, did not explain away reported sightings of alien bodies. The new report, drafted by Air Force historian Capt. James McAndrew, will suggest that purported witnesses have confused the 1947 incident with late 1950s tests. It will say the so-called saucer crash victims were dummies dropped from the sky, said Philip Klass of Washington, D.C., publisher of Skeptics UFO Newsletter. News of the report comes two weeks before the 50th anniversary celebration in Roswell, which is expected to attract thousands of visitors. Klass, who spoke to McAndrew about the report, said: "He is inclined to believe that some stories told by some witnesses may be fundamentally honest attempts to recall what they saw, but they mistook dummies for extraterrestrials." Though the report has not been issued, it already is being scoffed at by researchers and others, who say it is far less than a bombshell putting the Roswell crash legend to rest. The report is based on Air Force records. "What it (the report) is going to do is undermine public belief in our government, because it is such a silly story," said Dean Crosbie, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell. "It's sad that officials think the masses of the public are unintelligent and can't think. It's almost insulting that officials actually believe the American public will fall for this kind of story." Charles Moore, a retired professor of physics at New Mexico Tech University in Socorro, said he read the draft report recently at an aeronautics conference in San Francisco, where he met McAndrew. Moore, who worked on a top secret 1947 project involving high-altitude balloons designed to detect Soviet nuclear tests, said he is inclined to believe the fuzzy memory theory and that the witness accounts are not reliable. "Very clearly, there were no dummies, no manned balloon flights (in 1947). We just carried instruments under the long-range detection program, what is now called Project Mogul, into the ... atmosphere," Moore said. "The Air Force has been very concerned about being responsive, and when our balloon activities were explained, people were very unhappy that the anecdotal stories about bodies hadn't been accounted for." But Frank Kaufmann, 80, who was a civilian assigned to an intelligence unit at the then-Roswell Air Field in July 1947, says he knows what he saw, and they weren't dummies. Recently, Kaufmann recounted what he did see when he and several other intelligence officers investigated the impact site of a glowing object: The aliens "didn't have any of these big eyes or horns or anything else or spiny fingers. They were very good-looking people, ash-colored faces and skin. About 5 feet 4, 5 feet 5. Eyes a little more pronounced, a little bit larger. Small ears, small nose. Fine features. Hairless. There were five. They had a very tight, almost a wet suit, silver colored. ... One was thrown out of the craft itself." Kaufmann said he has no doubt that his encounter occurred in July 1947. "The military can say whatever they want. I have no jurisdiction over them," Kaufmann said Thursday. "There's not a doubt in my mind. I haven't gone senile yet." Air Force spokesman Maj. Guy Thompson said the report is being "worked through channels" and that there is no firm release date. McAndrew, reached in Virginia, said he did not care to comment on his report at this time. But Klass, a UFO skeptic who believes many of those who claim to have witnessed something otherworldly in 1947 are spinning tall tales, said he would recommend the Air Force not release the report. "It is not a strong enough theory to try to explain some of the statements of the quote-unquote key witnesses," Klass said. "In my opinion, this report will not convince any flying saucer believers, and in fact, I suspect they will accuse the Air Force of trying to cover up and divert attention from the crashed saucer." __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association __________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Area 51 On CNN's "American Edge" This Wednesday From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:08:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:53:26 -0400 Subject: Area 51 On CNN's "American Edge" This Wednesday Found this June 24 on the "Area 51 Mailing List". Glen Campbell provides a service worthy of imitation, namely of bringing the URL at the end of the e-mails. "American Edge" is only broadcast to US viewers, as far as I know. Coming June 25: Area 51 on CNN's "American Edge" From: "James R. Graham"=20 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:31:51 -0800 Subject: Coming June 25: Area 51 on CNN's "American Edge"=20 Hi all, This wednesday (6/25/97) at 10pm EST CNN's show "American Edge" will have a feature on Area51. They will also have a feature on a man "whose meteorite collection has made him a rock star."=20 Pop culture indeed. james Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-97 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Glenn Campbell, Webmaster=20 This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services. URL for this page: http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/1997/jun/a24-001.shtml
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jun 97 05:26:02 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:54:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso - 6 fingers reference... >>Let's wait a bit on Corso. The book has just come out. Karl Pflock has >endorsed Corso, as have all the military sources I am in touch with. Karl, There was a post here earlier which said that you had endorsed Corso. I did not say you had endorsed his book. My understanding was that you had said his credentials fully check out. Sorry if that came off wrong in the above. I am waiting for your review, and others, before deciding to simply throw the whole thing out, and was simply suggesting that Dennis, and others, do likewise. I'll read your review when it comes out, of course. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Weaver & Roswell 'Dummies' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:26:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:57:49 -0400 Subject: Weaver & Roswell 'Dummies' Dear colleagues, With regards to Colonel Weaver's pronouncement that the aliens discovered at Roswell were nothing more than 'dummies' used in parachute testing, do you not find this intriguing ? Is this not the first time that the USAF have ever admitted that 'bodies' wee recovered ? I would be extremely grateful if someone could provide me with Colonel Weaver's full statement on this or any informatio related to this event. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. E-mail: e151@dial.pipex.com 24.6.97.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:23:19 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:02:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:22 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Minor point. The astronaut in the video plainly does a mental flip- >flop, pauses, and then says somewhat hesitantly, "" Uh,....we have an >unidenified flying object." Then the audio transmission goes dead, but >the video continues as she zooms in on something out in space. Did you infact see her lips say it, or was she faced the other way? I bet you could not see her mouth those words, which then leads to my conclusion that it was doctored. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - using a PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Research balloons were tagged From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:23:14 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:03:05 -0400 Subject: Research balloons were tagged >From: Jerry Bailey <bailey@phoenix.net> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Research balloons were tagged >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:55:19 -0500 >It seems to me that any agency sending instruments >(or dummies) up on a balloon would likewise tag the >package with instructions to contact the owner since >it would likely come down on private property. The dummies did come with instructions. They said "Beat me over my head with your rifle butt, steal my personal communicator, let me die, then cut me up and make a video of it and give it to that Santilli guy. Just remember to remove my black contact lenses." <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - using a PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: New Roswell Report "Confirmed" From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:58:49 +0930 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:18:18 -0400 Subject: Re: New Roswell Report "Confirmed" Hi all,=20 This is hardly new news, but it just arrived via Mercury Mail.=20 Story: U.S. Air Force hopes to close 50-year-old UFO case.=20 Washington (Reuters) - The Air Force will release a final=20 report Tueday again denying that space aliens in flying=20 saucers crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, 50 years ago,=20 defense officials said Monday.=20 The officials confirmed an NBC report that the Air Force's =20 "case closed" report on the incident explains that=20 activities in the desert in 1947 involved military=20 launch and recovery activities of experimental high=20 altitude balloons.=20 The defense officials, who asked not to be identified,=20 said "aliens" observed in the desert not far from Roswell=20 were apparently test dummies carried aloft by U.S. Air=20 Force balloons for scientific research.=20 Everyone agrees something fell from the sky onto ranchland=20 near Roswell during the summer of 1947 but, while the=20 official explanation is that it was a high-altitude balloon,=20 a growing number of UFO enthusiasts and anti-government=20 conspiracy theorists are convinced there was a cover-up.=20 Frank Kaufmann, now 81 and one of the few witnesses to the=20 so-called "Roswell Incident", still insists he saw dead=20 aliens put into body bags after their spacecraft crashed=20 near the town 50 years ago.=20 But the Air Force has repeatedly denied the claims and=20 says it has no evidence of alien spacecraft or that there=20 has been any UFO cover-up.=20 ^REUTER@=20 =A9 Mercury Mail 1997=20 --------------------------------------=20 Whilst this story appears to be in order, the wording is=20 in some ways quite ambiguous.=20 Have a read and see what you think!=20 Regards,=20 ASIUS.=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: All Hell breaks loose! From: stenger@spindle.net (stenger@spindle.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:50:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:20:36 -0400 Subject: Re: All Hell breaks loose! >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:37:42 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: UFO UpDate: RE-All Hell breaks loose! >>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:00:41 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>Subject: All Hell breaks loose! >>It's happened! The national media has finally reported the mass >>sighting in Phoenix (March 13,1997) My telephone has been jumping >>off the hook. Media, researchers, friends, everyone has questions. >Hi Errol Hi All >Well its made the UK as well just last week. This is the article posted >by one of our more popular national news papers. >The Sun friday 23June 1997 >Riddle of the biggest UFO yet. >Bill Coles (in New York) > The biggest UFO sighting in the history has left defence chiefs >baffled - and thousands of witnesses are now convinced we are NOT alone. >A giant V-shaped object with red and white lights cruised silently for >200 miles over Arizona. The slow moving UFO the size of three football >pitches, was visible for nearly two hours. It was first spotted by a >retired cop - and soon police were flooded with reports. > Pilots and air traffic controllers were among the witnesses. >Dozens of people shot video footage as the UFO passed low over Pheonix >at around 8:15pm on March 13. And despite three months of computer >analysis, no one yet has come up with any explanation. > Trucker Bill Griener, 51, watched three figters scramble to >intercept the mystery craft. He said: "It shot straight up and >disappeared. I've seen something that don't belong here." >As you can see this was only a small article. >In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. >Sean Jones >http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ Hi, all. I was at my usual beauty salon appointment this past Saturday. The owner's son shampooed me. In all the time I have been a customer, he and I have never exchanged more than words of greeting, and he certainly didn't know of my interest in UFOs or that I had ever had a sighting of my own. Out of the blue he asked me what I thought about those UFOs in Phoenix! When I told him the story was "old news," that the Phoenix Phlap had started March 13, he disagreed. He said he was sure it was a recent story. "Why would the media wait until now to report such a thing?", he asked me. Why indeed? BTW, I thought up Phoenix "Phlap" all by myself. (My brain hurts). Don't tell me if somebody else beat me to it. Best wishes and good sightings, Sharolyn Stenger, Arlington, Texas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:15:29 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:21:38 -0400 Subject: Re: MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Fwd: MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials; Abducted! An MTV New s Specia... > Hosted by Kurt Loder, "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" > will examine the increasing interest in the paranormal in pop > culture, featuring interviews with pop stars such as Marilyn Manson, > Bill Paxton, and Will Smith and will highlight some famous alleged > alien abductions in past history. "Abducted!: An MTV News Special > Report" premiers on MTV on Tuesday, July 8th at 10:00 p.m. (ET/PT), the > 50th anniversary of the report of the UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. > Abducted! also lends an ear to the skeptics, who will attempt to > explain the unexplainable. MTV News visits a professor of > neuroscience, Dr. Persinger at Laurentian University who has > demonstrated the ability to artificially reproduce an abduction in a > controlled laboratory setting. MTV News visits Dr. Persinger's > laboratory and talks to professionals who have researched the Aarrrrrgggghhh!! (sigh) More attention for Persinger's unproven claims ... His tests can duplicate abduction experiences the same way that alien bodies seen at Roswell can be explained as crash-test dummies! Of course, if the Air Force says that's what happened, it must be true. I guess I should rethink the TST ... -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Schuessler Book From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 11:01:43 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:40:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Schuessler Book >From: Andromeda0@aol.com >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:47:18 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Schuessler Book >Jim Moseley stated in one of his recent editions of Saucer Smear >that after years of silence John Schuessler has announced that he >is writing a book on the Cash-Landrum incident. I've always found >this to be one of the most fascinating cases on record. Does anyone >know any details about the book?..the title?, release date?, >publisher? etc. Several years ago I asked John when he would be publishing a book on the Cash-Landrum incident. He replied that he'd write the book when he had a "last chapter." Perhaps there has been some development in his investigation of this case. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jun 97 13:30:43 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:19:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview >Date: 22 Jun 97 11:53:45 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kent Jeffrey and his worldview Bob wrote; >You know, I'm not so sure that is true. This implies that there is an >"absolute" reality somewhere independent of the observer, and I think research >in quantum physics has pretty much disproved that. The "observer effect" would >indicate that reality is determined in large part by the expectations of the >observer. Now the really important question: who is the observer? Good lord, I thought I'd left this kind of speculation well behind at college! The observer is the person observing the *event*, which in any decent sense means the person experiencing the *event* rather than any influencing party. Absolute reality can be defined as that frame which concurs with observation from many rather than one single point. Majority rule, if you like. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle simply states that you can fix velocity or mass via measurement, but the act of measuring must necessarily alter your measurement. Schroedinger's thought experiment was designed to show that you could consider the electron a probability wave until the point where you fixed measurement, with regard to the above, where the wave function would collapse. Note that the Uncertainty priciple is wavering with the ability to supercool atoms using a lattice of lasers. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:00:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:21:07 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >From: xalium@netwrx.net >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Hockey Pucks have landed? >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:00:00 EST >After yesterdays skywatch with taping over 7 unknowns. It seems to be >getting stranger everyday. I think we may have seen a Hockey Puck on the >ground. >Now these damn Hockey Pucks have us climbing Mountains looking for them. >>Whats next? >Tom King ========================================================================= Hiya Tom, hi All, First, be careful climbing! If you don't have enough experience take along someone who has. (Don't need to see news footage that includes you being brought down off the mountain in a helicopter gurney!) Second, (if) there are ground traces, samples must be taken from within and outside of the area. Pack a little sampling kit. Small spade, baby food jars with a few small holes punched into the lid, plenty of sandwich bags, Lysol, labels for jars, some kind of log book and a roll of paper toweling. Carefully note location as best you can on a map of the area. Use two of the sandwich bags for gloves, you will be changing these between each and every step. Clean the spade (on site) with the Lysol. Allow to dry completely and sample first within the ground trace at surface level, place sample in jar #1 and label accordingly. Place jar into sandwich bag and seal & label bag. Repeat spade cleaning process, & remember to change (baggie) gloves. Take a second sample going two or three inches deep from the same spot. Repeat cleaning process and glove change each time, for inside and out side the ground trace. Make sure that everything is carefully labelled. take several samples. One of the things they test for are the levels of anaerobic bacteria. The levels of these bacteria are an excellent way to measure if the soil has been altered in some way. That's why I recommended the holes in the tops of the jars. If you hermetically seal the samples the bacteria will begin to die off and accurate measurements become impossible. They need to measure the differences (if any) in the samples taken from outside and inside of the affected area. Make sure to open the sandwich bags (not the lids!) at least once every twenty-four hours for a few minutes (air exchange) and then reseal them until you can get them to a lab. That, is best done ASAP. Have a good lab in Boston for soil analysis if you need one. If all you find are Marlboro butts, roaches, empties, and boot prints,...then never mind! <VBG> See you in Roswell dude! <G> John Velez * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Robotic Mars Landing and Space Shuttle Reflight From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:32:28 -0400 Subject: Robotic Mars Landing and Space Shuttle Reflight Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC June 24, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Franklin O'Donnell Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) Rob Navias Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/483-3671) NOTE TO EDITORS: N97-44 ROBOTIC MARS LANDING AND SPACE SHUTTLE REFLIGHT HIGHLIGHT A BUSY AND CHALLENGING WEEK FOR U.S. SPACE PROGRAM The week of June 30 promises to be a busy and memorable one in the history of space exploration, with the landing of NASA's Mars Pathfinder spacecraft on Independence Day, a Space Shuttle launch of the STS-94 microgravity science mission, and ongoing activities on Russia's Mir space station. NASA will offer near-continuous access to these events for the media and the general public. In addition to standard Space Shuttle-related mission activities, NASA TV will provide coverage of daily status briefings on Mars Pathfinder and extensive live programming on July 4-6 from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, CA. Telephone audio links will be available during overlapping events and numerous Internet sites are accessible for status reports and imagery. JPL also will operate a full-service newsroom for the Pathfinder landing from June 30 to at least July 11. The latest comprehensive schedule for NASA TV, and updates to it as events progress, is available from NASA Headquarters; JPL; Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX; and, Kennedy Space Center, FL. It also is available on-line at the following URL: ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/statrpt/jsc/tvsked/tvsked.txt Mars Pathfinder Coverage Information News media should contact JPL's Public Information Office at 818/354-5011 for information on credentials for its newsroom. Please also notify JPL if you have a need for a Mission Audio feed of the STS-94 mission distributed to your work location in the von Karman Auditorium. Beginning on June 30, the Mars Pathfinder landing newsroom at JPL will be open at 818/354-8999, during at least the following hours (all times EDT): June 30-July 2 11 a.m.-8 p.m. July 3 11 a.m.-11 p.m. July 4 9:30 a.m.-3 a.m. (July 5) July 5-6 11 a.m.-3 a.m. July 7-11 11 a.m.-8 p.m. Status reports on mission activities for Mars Pathfinder will be issued by the JPL Public Information Office. Daily audio status reports will be available by calling 800/391-6654 or 818/354-4210. A pre-landing briefing on Mars Pathfinder and its science objectives at Mars will be held at JPL on Tuesday, July 1, at 1 p.m. EDT. If the STS-94 launch remains scheduled for this date, this briefing will not be shown live on NASA TV. A taped rebroadcast of this briefing currently is planned for later that evening and the next morning. Media can access a live audio feed of this briefing by calling 818/354-6170. During the briefing, the STS-94 countdown can be heard on a Mission Audio feed to JPL. Extensive information on Mars Pathfinder, including an electronic copy of the landing press kit, related press releases, fact sheets, status reports and images, is available from the JPL World Wide Web home page at URL: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews The Mars Pathfinder project also maintains a home page at URL: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mpfmir These sites may receive heavy traffic on the days close to landing, but Internet users around the world can follow the mission by way of multiple local mirror sites that are now on- line, with links listed at the Web site above. The Internet sites feature updates on mission activities and will provide Pathfinder photographs of the Martian surface, once they become available. The sites also will feature a bird's eye view of the Mars Pathfinder mission operations area at JPL, via a live video camera feed that is updated every 15 minutes. Images returned by the Mars Pathfinder lander and rover will be released to the news media in electronic format only during the mission via addresses furnished to media upon request. These sites will include files offering the highest spatial and color resolution of images returned by the Pathfinder lander and rover. Images also will be carried on NASA Television during daily Video File broadcasts. STS-94 Coverage Information As with all Space Shuttle missions, the Johnson Space Center newsroom will be staffed 24-hours a day throughout the 16-day STS- 94 mission, Microgravity Science Laboratory-1, beginning at 9 a.m. EDT on July 1. Information regarding the mission can be obtained by calling the JSC Newsroom at 281/483-5111. Information on STS-94 is available through several sources on the Internet. The primary source for mission information is the NASA Shuttle Web. This site contains information on the crew and their mission and will be regularly updated with status reports, photos and video clips throughout the flight. The NASA Shuttle Web's address is URL: http://shuttle.nasa.gov If that address is busy or unavailable, the STS-94 Countdown Page can be found at URL: http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-94/countdown.html and the MSL-1 Home Page can be found at URL: http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov Television coverage of STS-94 on NASA TV during the heaviest period of Mars Pathfinder activities will include update reports, Flight Day Highlights, the "Mission Update" program and Mission Status Briefings, when warranted. Uninterrupted air-to-ground feeds of conversations between the astronauts in orbit and ground controllers along with mission commentary can continue to be heard on Mission Audio, which will be distributed to the NASA centers, as is usually the case during Shuttle flights. During the time when Mars Pathfinder activity is seen on NASA TV, a clean TV feed of Shuttle coverage also will be available at JSC. Reporters covering Mars Pathfinder at either JPL or the Kennedy Space Center will not be able to obtain a clean TV feed of Shuttle coverage after launch, only the programmed feed of both Mars Pathfinder and Shuttle activities through NASA TV. If the launch of STS-94 is delayed until July 4, NASA will issue an updated TV events programming schedule at the Web site listed at the beginning of this Note To Editors. NASA Television is broadcast on the satellite GE-2, transponder 9C, C Band, 85 degrees West longitude, frequency 3880.0 MHz, vertical polarization, audio monaural at 6.8 MHz. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Reuters: USAF: Roswell "Space Aliens" Were Dummies From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:00:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:36:00 -0400 Subject: Reuters: USAF: Roswell "Space Aliens" Were Dummies USAF: Roswell ``Space Aliens'' Were Dummies 02:48 p.m Jun 24, 1997 Eastern By Charles Aldinger WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The U.S. Air Force reported Tuesday that "space aliens'' who supposedly crashed in the New Mexico desert 50 years ago were only military dummies used in high-altitude parachute drops. A 231-page Air Force report aimed at ending longstanding speculation over the so-called Roswell Incident denied the military had recovered bodies from damaged flying saucers in 1947 and had been covering up the discovery ever since. Released a week before the incident's 50th anniversary, the report said the controversy began with reports of unusual activities near the town of Roswell but it involved recovery operations of high-altitude research balloons. The report also said the bodies of aliens that witnesses reported seeing in the desert in separate incidents years later were dummies carried aloft by Air Force balloons and dropped in parachutes for scientific research. "This comprehensive examination of the so-called 'Roswell Incident' found no evidence whatsoever of flying saucers, space aliens or sinister government cover-ups,'' it said. "The misrepresentations of Air Force activities as an extraterrestrial 'incident' is misleading to the public and is simply an affront to the truth.'' To make the point, the report included photographs of human look-alike dummies and balloons being recovered. But the private Fund for UFO Research, based at Mount Rainier, Maryland., attacked the report, noting that the test dummies were not dropped by parachute until 1955 and that the Air Force simply claimed that the time discrepancy was due to faulty memories on the part of eyewitnesses. "The U.S. Air Force proposes simply a naked theory to explain the first-hand testimony of witnesses,'' it said in a statement, adding that it was hard to imagine how all of the witnesses could have mistaken dummies for "creatures from outside the Earth.'' Despite the lack of hard evidence, Roswell has become an article of faith for those who believe in extraterrestrial life and up to 100,000 people were expected in the town next week for the golden anniversary of the alleged alien landing. But the Air Force said Tuesday facts countered the speculation. "This report is based on thoroughly documented research supported by official records, technical reports, film footage, photographs and interviews with individuals who were involved in these events,'' it said. The report said claims of bodies at the Roswell Army Air Field Hospital that helped feed the speculation were most likely a combination of two separate incidents in 1956 in which 11 Air Force personnel died in a KC-97 aircraft accident and two airmen were injured in a manned balloon mishap. Some defense officials conceded privately on Tuesday that the report was unlikely to sway hard-line believers in unidentified flying objects (UFOs) from space and the few remaining witnesses to the Roswell event. On July 7, 1947, the Roswell Army Air Field issued a press release saying it was in possession of a "flying disk'' that had fallen, but the same evening an Air Force general in Fort Worth, Texas, said the craft was in fact a weather balloon. Walter Haut, the army press officer who put out the first news release, says he still believes it was accurate. One of the few living witnesses, Frank Kaufmann, now 81, still insists he saw dead aliens put into body bags after their spacecraft crashed near the town 50 years ago. He was a civilian employee at Roswell Army Air Field in 1947 when he was sent to see what had crashed into a dry river bed. Kaufmann said he got a close look at two bodies, one in the wreckage and one slumped against a rock wall in the river bed. ''They were very good-looking people, ash-colored faces and skin ... about five-feet-five tall, eyes a little more pronounced, small ears, small nose, fine features and hairless,'' he said, adding that he saw military personnel place five corpses into body bags and remove them in jeeps. Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 Abductions: Examining the Evidence - Live Net Show From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 21:35:16 UT Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:38:31 -0400 Subject: Abductions: Examining the Evidence - Live Net Show MIT Physicist and Implant Researcher, David Pritchard joins Project: watcher on Tuesday, June 24th in a live Netshow Interview with host AJS Rayl - formerly of Omni Magazine. Pritchard is best known for his recent work examining alien implants. The URL is http://watchfire.msn.com, access is free and the interview starts at 6pm, PT. Diana Botsford Forum Managre Project: watchfire http://watchfire.msn.com "If the truth is out there, we'll find it here together."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 24 USAF Roswell - special report - United Kingdom UFO From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:54:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:40:01 -0400 Subject: USAF Roswell - special report - United Kingdom UFO UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Special Report on USAF & Roswell --- Source: Teletext World News Date: Tuesday 24 June 1997 USA - the US Air Force has rebuffed claims by UFO buffs that alien bodies were recovered at a crash site at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947, saying they were dummies used in tests. ****** Source: Ceefax BBC World Date: Tuesday 24 June 1997 UFO Air Force comes clean on 'UFO Crash' The US Air Force has published a report revealing its version of events behind allegations of a UFO crash in 1947. The document says the so - called Roswell incident was in fact the release of dummies from balloons intended to test the impact of parachute jumps. The alleged bodies retrieved from the New Mexico site were dummies made of vinyl, the report says. Three years ago, it said the reported space ship was a military balloon. ****** Source: CNN Text News. Date: Tuesday 24 June 1997 Roswell 'space aliens' were dummies - Air Force The US Air Force has issued a report denying that 'space aliens' landed in the New Mexico desert 50 years ago. What became known as 'the Roswell incident' in 1947 was not the military recovering bodies from flying saucers and covering up the incident, it said. The 'aliens' were dummies used in high altitude parachute drops, said USAF. More than 100,000 UFO fans are expected in Roswell next week for the Jubilee. -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Ufologists Comment On Roswell Report (MSNBC) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:08:47 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:47:59 -0400 Subject: Ufologists Comment On Roswell Report (MSNBC) Found at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/81152.asp =20 Beyond Roswell: Is the truth out there?=20 Investigators say 1947 incident doesn=92t represent best UFO case=20 =20 Fifty years after the first modern flying-saucer reports, the UFO phenomenon continues to be fueled by thousands of sightings - as well as denials, deceptions and disappointments. =20 And although the Roswell Incident stands as perhaps the most spectacular flying-saucer story, the phenomenon goes far beyond the desert town of Roswell, N.M. "Roswell is lost in a fog of confusion with all sorts of bewildering claims and counterclaims," says Jerry Clark of the Center for UFO Studies, author of the definitive "UFO Encyclopedia." The second edition of the multivolume encyclopedia comes out this fall. "The problem is, no one began to investigate this thing until 30 years later, when memories are hazy," Clark says. Even Kent Jeffrey, the head of the International Roswell Initiative, says he now believes there was no flying-saucer incident at Roswell - a claim that has earned him blistering scorn in some UFO circles. =20 Clark says the debate over the reality of Roswell will remain "stalemated unless there=92s some startling new breakthrough." The U.S. Air Force is on the verge of releasing a second review of unclassified UFO files, but don=92t look for an amazing breakthrough. Indeed, Air Force investigators reportedly will speculate that some reported sightings of alien bodies are traceable to '50s-era experiments involving dummies dropped from high altitudes to study the results of the impact. =20 The earlier review said in 1994 that debris recovered during the 1947 Roswell Incident actually came from apparatus used in Project Mogul, a top-secret operation to monitor Soviet nuclear blasts using aerial sensors hung from weather balloons.=20 UFO enthusiasts say the shifting stories coming from government sources only heighten their suspicions that the full truth has not yet been told about Roswell. But investigators such as Clark say there are other UFO reports that yield far more promise than Roswell. "You really have to focus not on the most spectacular cases, but on the hard evidence, something you can take into the laboratory," Clark says. =20 According to the lore that has grown up around unidentified flying objects, the first recognized sighting was reported on June 24, 1947, by Boise businessman Kenneth Arnold. A trained pilot, Arnold said he saw nine disk-like objects flying in formation over Mount Rainier in Washington. It was that report that led to the creation of the term "flying saucer." Clark says Arnold=92s report has held up to 50 years of scrutiny. "His sighting remains puzzling," he says. "It was a very good sighting." More recently, UFO investigators have focused on a series of sightings reported in Arizona on March 13. Dozens of observers, scattered across 100 miles, reported seeing a cluster of lights moving rapidly across the night sky. The Arizona incident stands as "perhaps the most dramatic UFO sighting that has been reported to the National UFO Reporting Center" over the past two or three years, says the Seattle-based center's director, Peter Davenport. Davenport has also gathered reports of a similar cluster of lights passing over a wide area of Texas on May 5. In Clark's view, the best-documented UFO case involves a sighting on Jan. 8, 1981, in the French village of Trans-en-Provence. A farmer, Renato Nicolai, reported seeing an object several feet in diameter that landed in his garden and took off again after a few moments, disturbing the soil. "At the time, the French government had an officially funded UFO research project," Clark says. The project, known by the French acronym GEPAN, found that traces of phosphate and zinc were left at the site, and that leaves from young plants in the garden showed a significant loss of chlorophyll. GEPAN concluded that while "we cannot give a precise and unique interpretation to this remarkable combination of results ... we can state that there is nonetheless confirmation of a very significant event which happened on this spot." =BF =BF =BF =BF=20 Clark says the story illustrates that UFO research can yield intriguing results - provided it is backed up by money and expertise. "The fact of the matter is that real science is really expensive," he says. "It=92s expensive to go into the laboratory, it=92s expensive to hire the services of competent scientists. ... The only reason why the UFO phenomenon continues to be controversial is because we haven't put resources into it." Davenport, who is struggling to keep his center going with almost no outside support, agrees heartily. "Funding is a major, major problem," he says. "In my estimation, the chokepoint is there." =BF =20 =A9 1997 MSNBC =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 CANADIAN X-FILES 150 -175 From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 03:33:06 -0400 Subject: CANADIAN X-FILES 150 -175 Here is the next installment of the index for RG24v17984, 940-5-1. As soon as I have the first group done (about 305 documents) I will look into having the entire group transfered, photocopied and made available. If you are missing parts of the index #001 to 175, e-mail me and I'll send you the complete index, thus far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index I am creating. If you are interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any ERRORS, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) DOCUMENTS 000150 to 000175 AS AT JUNE 16, 1997 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 150 03/12/56 RECLASSIFICATION SHEET Re: "Balloon Incident" placed on 004-4 DASS/S4 151 10/22/56 Vancouver Council of Social Engineering General Welfare Movement To: PIO in charge, Press Desk, Air Force Intelligence, Washington, DC Re: Questioning Order tha all UFOs to be Fired Upon THOMAS MEADOWS LETTER: 152 09/28/56 Flight Lieutenant, Short for Chief Air Staff To: Thomas Meadows & Co. Ltd. Re: "Flying Saucers from Outer Space" by Keyhoe 153 09/17/56 Thomas Meadows & Co. Ltd. To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Requesting information about UFOs 154 09/17/56 (Envelope for the Above) 155 06/28/55 Telex from Pepperrell Air Force Base, Torbay, Newfoundland To: CANAIRHED, Ottawa Re: UFO disappeared, Ocean Surface, 06/22/55 156 03/18/55 Squad Leader Hudson, Commanding Officer, RCAF STN, Winnipeg, MAN To: Chief Air Staff, Ottawa Re: TCHQ letter C45-1 (SASO) 03/01/55 UFO, OLSGIRTH, MANITOBA, 02/27/55: 157 02/27/55 Olsgirth, Manitoba To: Officer Commanding, RCAF STN, Stevenson FLD, Winnipeg, Manitob a Re: UFO Report of 02/27/55 158 03/18/55 Flight Lieutenant Hudson for Commanding Officer, RCAF Winnipeg To: Olsgirth, Manitoba Re: Unable to Explain UFO, forwarded to Air Force Headquarters 159 03/18/55 Flight Lieutenant Divine for Chief Air Staff To: Office of Air Attache, Colonel Bucchi, Italian Embassy, Ottawa Re: Letter 11/22/54 about Flying Saucers 159b 03/01/55 Fort Saskatee, Alberta To: Director, Board of Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Secrecy and Report 160 03/01/55 (Page Two of the Above) 161 03/01/55 (Page Three of the Above) 161b 03/01/55 (Page Four of the Above, Includes Diagrams) 161c 03/01/55 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 162 11/16/54 Tait To: Deparment of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Request for UFO Information UFO, BELLGRADE, YUGOSLAVIA, 10/25/54: 163 11/08/54 Air Force, Temporaty Docket 164 10/28/54 Group Captain Shaw, Air Attache, Bellgrade, Yugoslavia To: Department Air Defence, Air Force Headquarters Re: Flying Saucer UFO report in Yugoslavia 10/25/54 UFO, GIMLI, MANITOBA, 11/12/54: 165 11/12/54 UFO Sighting Report Gimli, Manitoba Taken by Flight Lieutenant Phillipps "SGD" 166 11/12/54 (Page Two of the Above) 167 11/12/54 UFO Sighting Report Gimli, Manitoba 168 11/12/54 (Page Two of the Above) ENKENHUS, WILLOWDALE, ONTARIO: 169 11/05/54 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 170 10/15/54 Squad Leader, Sherwood for Chief Air Staff To: Mrs. Enkenhus, Willowdale, Ontario Re: Forwarding Flying Saucer info to Royal Canadian Air Force 171 10/27/54 Mrs. Enkenhus, Willowdale, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force, Ottawa Re: Requesting Sighting Report Forms for UFO Sightings UFO, CAMPBELLFORD, ONTARIO, 07/02/54: 172 10/14/54 Officer in Charge, Green To: Mr. Joss, Campbelllford, Ontario Re: UFO Report on 07/02/54 173 07/14/54 Mr. Joss, Campbellford, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 07/02/54 174 07/14/54 (Page Two) 175 03/15/54 Campbell To: Iberville, Quebec Re: UFO Report sent (Note: In French) ---------------------- TO BE CONTINUED --------------------- .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Rd. London, ON N6E-3B3 | | An active member of CUFORN & MUFON Ontario | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 CNN On The Pentagon's Roswell Press Conference (+ From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:14:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:15:53 -0400 Subject: CNN On The Pentagon's Roswell Press Conference (+ Found June 24 1997 at: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/24/ufo.presser/index.html The links are in brackets: =20 =20 =20 Air Force says of Roswell: 'Case Closed' Skeptics critical, despite military report June 24, 1997 Web posted at: 4:48 p.m. EDT (2048 GMT)=20 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- So-called space aliens who supposedly crashed in the New Mexico desert 50 years ago were only military dummies used in high-altitude parachute drops, the Air Force said at a news conference Tuesday.=20 Officials showed a video at the Pentagon briefing to make its point, and released a 231-page report. =20 (Roswell Report Press Conference =20 VXtreme Streaming Video) =20 (Ejection seat test dummies=20 1M/26 sec. QuickTime movie) Its findings immediately came under attack, and apparently was unlikely to end long-standing rumors that the government recovered bodies from damaged flying saucers near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947, then covered up the incident.=20 >From the military's point of view, the title of the report tells it all: "The Roswell Report, Case Closed."=20 But when asked whether he thought the report "would put this whole thing to rest," Defense Department spokesman (Kenneth Bacon) replied: "Of course not."=20 Air Force Col. John Haynes, who presented the report at the Pentagon news conference, said its findings show that "air force activities which occurred over a period of many years have now been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred over two or three days in July 1947."=20 But skeptics said the parachute tests occurred years after the 1947 Roswell incident. The Air Force theorized that those who saw the dummies were confused over the dates.=20 Aliens or dummies? Released a week before the Roswell incident's 50th anniversary, the report says the controversy began with reports of unusual activities near Roswell, which involved recovery operations of high-altitude research balloons.=20 In 1994, the Air Force issued a report on the so-called "Roswell incident" that said the "spacecraft" that supposedly crashed in the desert was an Air Force balloon used in a top-secret research program.=20 The report released Tuesday repeated that assertion. It explained that the so-called alien bodies witnesses reported seeing in the desert in separate incidents were test dummies that were carried aloft between 1954 and 1959 by Air Force balloons, then dropped attached to parachutes.=20 To make the point, the latest report includes photographs of human look-alike dummies and balloons being recovered.=20 The possibility of a government conspiracy to cover up an actual UFO sighting was ridiculed Tuesday by retired Air Force Col. Richard Weaver, who wrote the 1994 report.=20 "I don't think the government is capable of putting together a decent conspiracy," Weaver said during a TV appearance.=20 Skeptics challenge Pentagon version Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, said the report raises more questions than it answers.=20 She said pictures of the Air Force dummies look like mannequins and, if that's what they were, "What does it say about the people in the military who can't tell the difference between mannequins and bodies?"=20 Roswell has become an article of faith for those who believe in extraterrestrial life. Up to 100,000 people are expected to visit the town next week for the golden anniversary of the alleged alien landing.=20 But the Air Force said Tuesday that facts counter the speculation.=20 "This report is based on thoroughly documented research supported by official records, technical reports, film footage, photographs and interviews with individuals who were involved in these events," it says.=20 But the report is unlikely to sway hard-line believers in unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, from space and the few remaining witnesses to the Roswell event.=20 Witness insists he saw dead aliens On July 7, 1947, the Roswell Army Air Field issued a news release saying it had a "flying disk" that had fallen, but the same evening an Air Force general in Fort Worth, Texas, said the craft was, in fact, a weather balloon.=20 Walter Haut, the army press officer who put out the first news release, says he still believes it was accurate.=20 One of the few living witnesses, Frank Kaufmann, now 81, insists he saw dead aliens put into body bags after their spacecraft crashed near the town 50 years ago.=20 At the time in 1947, he was a civilian employee at Roswell Army Air Field, and was sent to see what had crashed into a dry riverbed. Kaufmann said he got a close look at two bodies, one in the wreckage and one slumped against a rock wall in the riverbed.=20 "They were very good-looking people, ash-colored faces and skin ... about 5 feet 5 (1.65 meters) tall, eyes a little more pronounced, small ears, small nose, fine features and hairless," he said. Kaufmann contends he saw military personnel place five corpses into body bags and remove them in jeeps.=20 Haynes said other incidents also may be adding to the confusion.=20 He said claims of bodies at the Roswell Army Air Field Hospital, which helped feed some of the speculation, were most likely a combination of two separate incidents: one in 1956 in which 11 Air Force personnel died in a KC-97 aircraft accident and the other in 1959 when two airmen were injured in a manned balloon mishap. =20 The(Associated Press) contributed to this report.=20 For more on this story see: (LEXIS=AE-NEXIS=AE Information Service).=20 =20 (U F O : Sites and Stories)=20 =20 See also: (TIME Magazine - Did Aliens Really Land?)=20 (Message Board: Roswell 'UFO crash' report)=20 Watch these shows on CNN for more sci-tech stories: (CNN Computer Connection | Future Watch | Science & Technology Week)=20 =20 (Sound off on our message boards) Tell us what you think! You said it... =20 =20 =20 =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Big Hanger From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:00:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:17:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Big Hanger >All of the speculation on the Internet and in the media lately about the >>big V that was seen flying over Arizona in March has raised some >>interesting questions. Richard Boylan released a statement recently >>saying this could very likely be a military achievement. When something happens in the real world, this 'quack from the coast' is quick to blame human agencies, but when it comes to millionares who (Dr Boylan claims) resemble telepathic dolphins from Tralfamador or some such nonsense he's Johnny on the spot with his ravings of aliens and secret agents coming out of the woodwork. Why _anyone_ listens to this man, or bothers to quote him is a source of great wonder to me! <G> (Nothing personal Jared, just speaking in general about Boylan. He's already wasted enough of all of our time!) >This is a possibility that should certainly be taken seriously however, >>this raises a very interesting question. When most of the Arizona >>witnesses gave estimates of the size of the V-shaped UFO the results >>yielded roughly something around 6000 feet across at it's longest point. >>This would suggest a lateral dimension of about a mile. Does anyone know >>of an aircraft hanger that is a mile long?...Could a hanger like that be >>stored somehwere in Nellis, China Lake, or maybe Helendale? >Storing an aircraft this big seems like a logistical nightmare. Oh, you betcha! I'd also like to add two other things. 1. This one mile long object (whatever it was) hovered, and manouvered silently, and was not detected on radar at Phoenix airport despite pilot sighting reports. 2. It just doesn't make sense for the military to fly supposedly secret (advanced) technology at low altitude over downtown Phoenix! "That dog won't hunt." <G> I could go on, but sooner or later the people are going to get _really_ pissed off and start demanding some answers. The folks from Phoenix are old school, die hard Americans. They aren't going to sit still for a whole long time or take a lot of shit over this. They,(we) want some answers, not 'sideshows'. ie; Gov. Symingtons recent 'off Broadway' production! As for "Boylan",...I pray to every guardian diety in this dimension or any alternate parallel dimensions to please make Dr Boylan (and any news of him) go away! <VBG> Selah! John Velez (Alien Spawn, and personal secretary to, General Nuisance.:) * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Hey, UFO kids, what time is it? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:58:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:14:51 -0400 Subject: Hey, UFO kids, what time is it? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/examiner/article.cgi?year=3Dhot&day=3D24&artic= le=3Dmorse.dtl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tuesday, June 24, 1997=20 =A9 1996 San Francisco Examiner=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hey, UFO kids, what time is it? By Rob Morse EXAMINER COLUMNIST THE PRESS loves anniversary stories. They're much easier to plan than=20 stories about things happening for the first time.=20 Usually we do anniversary stories about events that were front-page news=20 when they happened, like Pearl Harbor. Right now, the media are in paroxysms= =20 of anniversary journalism about an event that most Americans didn't notice= =20 at the time.=20 It may not even have taken place, although it made the front page of the=20 Tuesday, July 8, 1947, edition of the Roswell (N.M.) Daily Record. "RAAF=20 (Roswell Army Air Field) Captures Flying Saucer in Roswell Region," said the= =20 paper, one of the few that took the report seriously.=20 Joseph Stalin later waved that issue of the Roswell Daily Record, demanding= =20 to know what the United States was going to do with its captured flying=20 saucer, according to Col. Philip Corso, author of "The Day after Roswell."= =20 The book also claims that the silicon chip and Apple Computer's innovations= =20 were borrowed from technology found on the spacecraft. And Apple accuses=20 Microsoft of ripping them off.=20 The book is advertised as "firmly grounded in fact," and has a forward by=20 Sen. Strom Thurmond, in understandable English with a lot about communism=20 but nothing about UFOs.=20 How did Stalin get a copy of the small-town American paper? Well, if you=20 have any sense of the history of American paranoia, communist spies were=20 everywhere. They were the space aliens of their time, kids.=20 Your parents had conspiracy theories, too.=20 Historian Richard Hofstadter called it America's "paranoid style of=20 politics," and UFOs definitely are political. Where else could politicians= =20 come from?=20 If you ask most young people, and a lot of not-so-young people, what=20 happened in 1947, they'd say "Roswell."=20 Me, I'd say, "My first birthday party." I don't remember anything about=20 1947, so I looked it up in the anniversaries section of the World Almanac, a= =20 great source- book for the anniversary beat.=20 Here are just a few things we're not celebrating in the media because=20 they've lost their luster, while UFOs shine brighter in the skies over=20 America.=20 Fifty years ago, President Harry Truman asked Congress for $400 million in= =20 aid to Greece and Turkey for defense against communist aggression. Nowadays= =20 $400 million couldn't build a ballpark, but this "Truman Doctrine" staved=20 off the Soviets.=20 Secretary of State George C. Marshall proposed a plan for European recovery= =20 from World War II. Called the Marshall Plan, it's the reason European=20 countries are arguing about the Eurodollar instead of rubles.=20 Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in an X-1 Rocket, a fast-flying object= =20 over the desert that would have been forgotten but for "The Right Stuff."=20 Princess Elizabeth of England and Lt. Philip Mountbatten were married in=20 1947, leading to the creation of Britain's most important industry, the=20 Royals.=20 Reddi Whip was invented in 1947.=20 If 1947 was a red-letter year in paranoia at the time, it wasn't because of= =20 Roswell, but because the House Un-American Activities Committee began its=20 investigations, blacklisting 10 Hollywood writers.=20 Other writers quickly learned to stay away from social issues and start=20 writing dialogue for robots and snatched bodies, the latter being a big=20 metaphor for communist infiltration. Nowadays, you just get snatched, no=20 Marx about it.=20 It's natural that we don't make a big whoop about the 50th anniversary of=20 any of those things, but before you start surfing the UFO sites on the=20 Internet, consider a couple of other things that happened in 1947.=20 On July 26 of that year, President Truman united the army, navy and air=20 force into one military establishment and founded the Central Intelligence= =20 Agency.=20 Coincidence?=20 That was just weeks after the UFO and the dead aliens were found in the=20 desert near Roswell, to be carried away, covered up and later converted to= =20 peaceful uses on tabloid TV shows.=20 In 1947, most American families didn't have TV sets, but those that didn't= =20 soon had nagging kids. It was the year TV addiction began.=20 Sure, I'm one of those who went on to "The Twilight Zone." But Rod Serling's= =20 tales about UFOs were always homilies about human nature. Most science=20 fiction was like that, before it was presented as fact on news shows' "alien= =20 autopsy" segments.=20 Now UFOs don't teach us anything, except that half the people in America=20 have some need to believe in them. Who knows why? They're a poor substitute= =20 for religion. They're easily mixed up with streetlights and don't even make= =20 guest appearances on tortillas.=20 Their occupants are unsexy space Bambis, yet always seem to be poking around= =20 at human sexual organs like urologists, according to UFOlogists. Aliens=20 always abduct people humans wouldn't invite home to dinner.=20 If you want to mark the anniversary of any invasion that took place in 1947,= =20 you'd do better to consider another small, mysterious humanlike creature=20 with a huge head who was found in the vast wasteland.=20 The year 1947 was when "The Howdy Doody Show" first aired. Sure, Howdy Doody= =20 was just a faked model, and sure you could see the strings, but he carried= =20 America's kids away, and they've never returned.=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Research balloons were tagged From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:15:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:18:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Research balloons were tagged > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:23:14 GMT > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Research balloons were tagged > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: Jerry Bailey <bailey@phoenix.net> > >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Research balloons were tagged > >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:55:19 -0500 > >It seems to me that any agency sending instruments > >(or dummies) up on a balloon would likewise tag the > >package with instructions to contact the owner since > >it would likely come down on private property. > The dummies did come with instructions. They said > "Beat me over my head with your rifle butt, steal my > personal communicator, let me die, then cut me up and > make a video of it and give it to that Santilli guy. > Just remember to remove my black contact lenses." <g> > Roger R. Prokic > Telecommunications Engineer > Lockheed Martin Astronautics > Denver, Colorado > - using a PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4 Isn't it disgraceful that the Air Force used Japanese made dummies, defense contractors should be required to buy American! At least that way we would have American dummies littering the American desert. Why doesn't Phillip Klass address this important issue of national security and economic policy? Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | rprokic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 USAF's Summary Of Roswell Report (11,2 Mb video) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:18:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:19:27 -0400 Subject: USAF's Summary Of Roswell Report (11,2 Mb video) This is the USAF's own summary of the report. The links are in brackets. The "Roswell Video" is about 11,2 Mb and consists of the old film sequences shown at the press conference. The summary can be found at http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ Roswell Report: Case Closed Executive Summary (Roswell Video) (News Release) (Copy of Report) In July 1994, the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force concluded an exhaustive search for records in response to a General Accounting Office (GAO) inquiry of an event popularly known as the "Roswell Incident." The focus of the GAO probe, initiated at the request of a member of Congress, was to determine if the U.S. Air Force, or any other U.S. government agency, possessed information on the alleged crash and recovery of an extraterrestrial vehicle and its alien occupants near Roswell, N.M. in July 1947. The 1994 Air Force report concluded that the predecessor to the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Army Air Forces, recovered debris from an Army Air Forces balloon-borne research project code named MOGUL. Records located describing research carried out under the MOGUL project, most of which were never classified (and publicly available) were collected, provided to GAO, and published in one volume for ease of access for the general public. This report discusses the results of this exhaustive research and identifies the likely sources of the claims of "alien bodies" at Roswell. Contrary to allegations, many of the accounts appear to be descriptions of unclassified and widely publicized Air Force scientific achievements. Other descriptions of "bodies" appear to be actual incidents in which Air Force members were killed or injured in the line of duty. The conclusions are: Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. "Aliens" observed in the New Mexico desert were actually anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research. The "unusual" military activities in the New Mexico desert were high altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations. Reports of military units that always seemed to arrive shortly after the crash of a flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and "crew," were actually accurate descriptions of Air Force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations. Claims of "alien bodies" at the Roswell Army Air Field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents: 1.) a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives; and, 2.) a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured. This report is based on thoroughly documented research supported by official records, technical reports, film footage, photographs, and interviews with individuals who were involved in these events. Photos from the Report Click on photos to increase size. (Alderson Laboratories anthropomorphic dummies of the type dropped from balloons.) (The aeroshell of a NASA Voyager-Mars space probe just prior to launch.) (Following a supersonic test flight in 1972, a Viking space probe awaits recovery at White Sands Missile Range.) produced by the Air Force Web Information Service - June 24, 1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Is the Phoenix V visiting Vegas? From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:22:27 -0400 Subject: Is the Phoenix V visiting Vegas? LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Add Las Vegans to those sighting strange unidentified flying objects in the Southwest skies. Las Vegas Metro Police report ``quite a few calls'' Monday night of people sighting strange lights in the skies northwest of the city, in the direction of the top secret Area 51 base. A police dispatcher who declined to give her name said she and other family members spotted the mysterious object hovering in the sky about 9:30 p.m. PDT. A Minuteman missile was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. at 8:39 p.m. and the missile's vapor cloud was spotted by Las Vegas residents. But the police dispatcher said the lights were spotted northwest of the city, whereas Vandenberg is southwest of Las Vegas. ``It was like a pyramid or V-shaped wedge, with pulsating yellow lights,'' the dispatcher told The Associated Press. ``It split up, then it came back together. ``We got quite a few calls on it. From all reports, it was something similar to what was seen over Phoenix.'' There have been reports out of Phoenix the past week of odd-shaped lights hovering above the city in a boomerang formation earlier this year. ``It wasn't like anything I've ever seen before,'' the dispatcher said. She said the lights hovered in the sky for about 15 minutes and didn't appear to be moving, then disappeared. ``It looked like they took the lights of a football field and put them way up in sky,'' said the dispatcher's niece, who also requested anonymity. The woman said she has never witnessed such a display in the 37 years she has lived in Las Vegas. She said her husband and their three children witnessed the lights as well. ``They were these huge round lights, like they were in formation,'' she said. ``They were in a wide V-shape and they broke up and disappeared.'' The woman said she and her aunt began driving toward the location of the lights while her husband remained at their home on the southeast side of town. ``Then the lights reappeared in two groups of V's and there were a lot more of them.'' ``We thought the lights were pulsating but my husband was looking at them through binoculars and he said they were just a steady stream of bright light,'' the woman said. She said there were ``well over a dozen lights.'' The lights were in the general direction of Area 51, a top secret base about 100 miles northwest of Las Vegas, the dispatcher said. Maj. Steve Boylan of the U.S. Space Command in Colorado Springs, Colo. said there was no space debris re-entering the atmosphere during that period that might have caused the lights. Asked if the lights could have been from the Vandenberg launch, Boylan responded ``Lights do funny things, especially at twilight.'' A spokesman at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas was not immediately available for comment. Darwin Morgan, a spokesman for the Energy Department, said no tests were being conducted Monday night at the Nevada Test Site, northwest of Las Vegas. Sharon Singer, a resident of Rachel, Nev., a tiny community near Area 51, said she sighted no lights at the site during the evening.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Bufo Tonight From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:28:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:26:58 -0400 Subject: Bufo Tonight Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED June 25, 1997 I'll be on SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO, a national program, tonight. The host is Jeff Rense (this is the show formerly known as END OF THE LINE), and I always enjoy my appearances there. This one should be especially fun. We're going to do an hour (7-8 PM Pacific, 10-11 PM Eastern) on critical thinking and weird stuff. Most of you probably know that I lecture on that and that it is one of my primary interests. What I try to do is give you tools that show you how you come to conclusions. I'm not trying to change what your conclusions are, just give you an ability to have more control over the process. As we are getting a wider variety of information from a wider variety of sources, this becomes more useful. I'll be on following Michael Lindemann's weekly UFO update. Other guests for the rest of the week include: Marc Davenport and Leah Haley tomorrow night, and Richard Hoagland on Friday. Marc is probably best known for his time-travelling UFOs work, something on which I have also written. Leah is an abductee and author, who has talked about military-engineered abductions as well. To find stations, go to the website at http://www.sightings.com. You can also listen to it on your computer, through the same site. If you want to call-in (please do...I'd love to hear from you on this topic), the number is 1-800-745-6655. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Dateline NBC - Awful! From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 08:23:48 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:27:59 -0400 Subject: Dateline NBC - Awful! Hi list, I'm sure some of you saw NBC's Dateline program last night with it's segment on Roswell. Notice that in telling the tale, they got almost everything wrong, even the simple stuff. We learned of a totally new character, one Max Brazel, who found some debris near Roswell. Wonder if he is related to Mac ? We also learned that the crash happened on July 4 weekend. Must have nothing to do with what Mac found, since he said he found it a couple of weeks before that. Then there was that dark and stormy night bit. Corso was interesting, particularly his revelation at the end of the segment that one of the UFOs he saw was a "time machine". But they really didn't give him a chance to say very much. They made a really big deal of the fact that they's asked a bunch of corporate giants if their products stemmed from alien technology. What the hell did they expect corporate PR people to say? "Yes"???? And that's assuming that such people would even be "in the know" about this if it did happen. Basically, their report was so poorly researched that they should hide their heads in shame. All glitter and no substance. But at least we now know what Corso looks like and sounds like. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Police: Strange Sightings North Of Las Vegas From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:02:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:29:43 -0400 Subject: Police: Strange Sightings North Of Las Vegas Received this from the "Skywatch" list June 25 at 13.56 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours): 25. June 1997 15.24.14 Message From: skywatch@mail.phoenix.net,Internet Subject: Skywatch: Police: Strange Sightings North of Las Vegas To: Stig Agermose ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Steve Wingate" <steve@anomalous-images.com> Organization: Anomalous Images To: IUFO <iufo@world.std.com>, skywatch@phoenix.net Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:47:56 -0800 Subject: (Fwd) Police: Strange Sightings North of Las Vegas Reply-to: steve@anomalous-images.com Priority: normal Police: Strange Sightings North of Las Vegas LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Add Las Vegans to those sighting strange unidentified flying objects in the Southwest skies. Las Vegas Metro Police report "quite a few calls'' Monday night of people sighting strange lights in the skies northwest of the city, in the direction of the top secret Area 51 base. A police dispatcher who declined to give her name said she and other family members spotted the mysterious object hovering in the sky about 9:30 p.m. PDT. A Minuteman missile was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. at 8:39 p.m. and the missile's vapor cloud was spotted by Las Vegas residents. But the police dispatcher said the lights were spotted northwest of the city, whereas Vandenberg is southwest of Las Vegas. "It was like a pyramid or V-shaped wedge, with pulsating yellow lights,'' the dispatcher told The Associated Press. "It split up, then it came back together. "We got quite a few calls on it. From all reports, it was something similar to what was seen over Phoenix.'' There have been reports out of Phoenix the past week of odd-shaped lights hovering above the city in a boomerang formation earlier this year. "It wasn't like anything I've ever seen before,'' the dispatcher said. She said the lights hovered in the sky for about 15 minutes and didn't appear to be moving, then disappeared. "It looked like they took the lights of a football field and put them way up in sky,'' said the dispatcher's niece, who also requested anonymity. The woman said she has never witnessed such a display in the 37 years she has lived in Las Vegas. She said her husband and their three children witnessed the lights as well. "They were these huge round lights, like they were in formation,'' she said. "They were in a wide V-shape and they broke up and disappeared.'' The woman said she and her aunt began driving toward the location of the lights while her husband remained at their home on the southeast side of town. "Then the lights reappeared in two groups of V's and there were a lot more of them.'' "We thought the lights were pulsating but my husband was looking at them through binoculars and he said they were just a steady stream of bright light,'' the woman said. She said there were "well over a dozen lights.'' The lights were in the general direction of Area 51, a top secret base about 100 miles northwest of Las Vegas, the dispatcher said. Maj. Steve Boylan of the U.S. Space Command in Colorado Springs, Colo. said there was no space debris re-entering the atmosphere during that period that might have caused the lights. Asked if the lights could have been from the Vandenberg launch, Boylan responded "Lights do funny things, especially at twilight.'' A spokesman at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas was not immediately available for comment. Darwin Morgan, a spokesman for the Energy Department, said no tests were being conducted Monday night at the Nevada Test Site, northwest of Las Vegas. Sharon Singer, a resident of Rachel, Nev., a tiny community near Area 51, said she sighted no lights at the site during the evening. Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.anomalous-images.com http://www.anomalous-images.com/ftp.html (anonymous FTP site) Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | skywatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Big Hanger From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:03 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:31:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Big Hanger Jared, I think you need to look for more than just a dang big hanger. Not only would you need a BIG place to store a mile wide aircraft, but you's have to BUILD that big sucker in the first place. As far as I know, our capabilites to build big aircraft are really strained when it comes to commercial airliners like 747s and 777s and the big military transport planes, and they are not even a significant fraction of this size. I simply do not think the USA, Russia, or any other country on this planet has the capability to build something this big. On the other hand, I've seen some suggestions of "modular" aircraft. Small aircraft which link together in the air and then fly as one, later to unlink and land separately. I've never heard of such things actually being BUILT, though. And, you have to ask the question of what possible purpose it could serve for us to build something like that, or, for that matter, to build a single craft a mile wide. If it was real, I don't think it was ours. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Ufologists Comment On Roswell Report (MSNBC) From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:05 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:32:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufologists Comment On Roswell Report (MSNBC) >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:08:47 +0200 >Subject: Ufologists Comment On Roswell Report (MSNBC) I'd like to comment on one aspect of all this stuff that MSNBC posted. The dummies. If you were a rancher in NM in the late 40s or 50s and came across one of these dummies in the desert, what would you do? High tail it for home and begin telling tales of aliens? Doesn't sound logical to me. I think you'd look the thing over, see that it was a rubber dummy, and carry it home. Particularly if you had been accustomed to turning in instrument packages from weather balloons. Even today, when aliens are a much more common and accepted concept, I doubt that anyone would first jump to the conclusion that this was a dead alien they had found. And, even though I may not be able to put a precise date on events I recall from the past, I can come pretty close on those which were significant. I wouldn't be off more than a year, if that, not a full decade. So, we've got rubber crash dummies dropped a decade later. What does that add up to? Nothing. Simply rubber crash dummies in the desert a decade later. I find it very peculiar that the Air Force feels compelled to explain the alien bodies so strongly that they have cooked up this weird explanation. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:09 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:33:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:23:19 GMT >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: 23 Jun 97 09:40:22 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Missing STS-48 Video, Mission STS-82 UFO >>Minor point. The astronaut in the video plainly does a mental flip- >>flop, pauses, and then says somewhat hesitantly, "" Uh,....we have an >>unidenified flying object." Then the audio transmission goes dead, but >>the video continues as she zooms in on something out in space. >Did you infact see her lips say it, or was she faced the other way? >I bet you could not see her mouth those words, which then leads to >my conclusion that it was doctored. Roger, I do not recall seeing her lips. I saw the video on a big screen in an auditorium, projected with one of those TV projectors. Not the ideal way to view something like this. As I recall she was sideways to the video camera looking out one of the windows when she said it. I'll let others who know more about this do the analysis. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: El Yunque - Alien Habitat? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:07 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:37:45 -0400 Subject: Re: El Yunque - Alien Habitat? >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:23:42 -0400 (EDT) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >Subject: El Yunque [Puerto Rico]: Alien Habitat? (Excerpts from a book by >UFOlogist Jorge Martin soon to be published) Francisco, I had the great pleasure of meeting Jorge Martin and his lovely wife last year when I was in San Juan on business. I found him very knowledgeable and interesting. Can you give us information on when the book will come out, and the name of the publisher. Also, I do hope it is in English. Thanks. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:11 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:38:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:00:32 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >If all you find are Marlboro butts, roaches, empties, and boot >prints,...then never mind! <VBG> On the other hand, this may be evidence of "rubber crash dummies", which are known to have bad habits and are prone to littering. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 New Roswell 'Witness' in Texas ?? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:42:53 -0400 Subject: New Roswell 'Witness' in Texas ?? From: Danny Cox <dcox@IX.NETCOM.COM> To: UFO-L@MB.PROTREE.COM From: Robert Collins <rmcoll@sprintmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.ufo.reports,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.alien.research,sc i.skeptic Interview with possible Roswell witness on 07 January 1993 by H.E. Puthoff, Institute of Advanced Studies, Austin, TX Note: The name of this witness was withheld at the request of the person himself because he doesn't want to be known as a "whistleblower:" Interview took place at a location which was an hour and a-half south of Austin Texas on 07 January 1993. This is being reported in light of Corso's book, "The Day After Roswell", Pocket Books, 1997. The following is his story: In 1947 he was only 18 years old, and not in the military. He was a pilot, however, having started his flying career a couple of years earlier. (His aviation career was in evidence every- where; his farm has several airplanes in various stages of repair; there are newspaper articles about his aviation involve- ment in scrapbooks; there are old photos of him at various points of his life with aircraft of vintage; etc). At the time he had been hired to survey some surrounding area (looking for the "Lost Dutchman" mine for a client) and had been flying in the area for days. Flying over what eventually became known as the Roswell crash site or even the Plains of San Agustin, reflections from metal scattered around a field caught his eye, he thought he saw some bodies and assumed he had come upon an airplane crash. (He was flying a TaylorCraft L2). He circled around and landed in a nearby field and walked toward a rancher's house ("Mac" Brazel??) and told him of the apparent crash. He, the rancher, and the rancher's young son (Bill Brazel??) started out for the site, and he then told the father of the bodies, at which point they turned around and took the son back to the ranch before returning to the site. He said material was scattered all over, although there was enough of the front end of the craft intact that he could tell that it was "egg-shaped," with the pointed end of the egg pointing in the forward direction. There were three bodies (all dead) in what was left of the front end of the craft. The bodies were small (about 4'), with oversize heads, no hair, and large black eyes with no pupils. He said he pulled back an eyelid to see if there was a white as in ours, but found that, although it was lighter colored, there were no "white of the eyes." Their clothing was elastic-like (he pulled it at the neck and it snapped back); no buttons or zippers. When I asked about skin color he said it reminded him of some American Indian coloring which has a slight blue to it. He said he thought at the time that coloring might have been due to lack of oxygen or somesuch; that is, he wasn't sure this was their natural coloring. Something which impressed him profoundly about the craft was its plainness on the inside. There was no food, no toilet, only a bench seat, and no buttons, levers, or instrumentation. There was, however, part of the wall which jutted out like a smoothly-connected table which had a slight discoloration to it, and several simple symbols on it, and above it a slightly discolored part of the wall. Later in life when he saw touch- screen computers, he thought that perhaps that was what he was seeing, but of course he would not recognize it at the time. Although no wiring was seen, hanging from the sheared-off sections of the craft's wall were thick plastic-like threads, which again at the time were unrecognizable, but which he would now say were like optical fibers. They could not be broken by hand, but could be cut. There seemed to be a "wiring" path of these threads between the roof of the craft, down through the wall, and to a set of six coffee-cup-sized, gyroscope-like devices, evenly-spaced around the floor of the craft, at wall's edge, which were mounted in gimbals that could rock in all directions. Six "threads" came to each mount, with two continuing on to the movable element. On the roof of the craft there was a slight discoloration area with a row of dots, and a symbol beside each dot. He likened it to a solar panel. (Microwave beam pickup "rectenna"?) As far as the structure was concerned, he stated that the walls appeared to be a porcelain-like material, one inch thick, with 0.020" (20 mil) metal foil on both the inside and outside. However, the material, including the "porcelain" was so light it seemed to hardly have any weight at all. He also said that the metal could not be torn or burnt, and when deformed return to its original shape. ( It could be bent about like a 1/16th- inch steel plate). He found it amazing that, even when placed in a vice, it would not show any scratch or surface marks at all after being worked. At some point others showed up to take command of the situation. When he said that he wanted to go home, they told him he would have to stay around until at least the next day. At some point the next day he was surrounded and harassed about what he saw until he said that he simply wished to be left out of it, and as far as he was concerned, he didn't see anything and just wanted to go home, at which point they let him go stressing the secrecy of the situation. When I asked him about his personal, psychological response to the event, he said, first, that he felt like he was watching his life from a far hill, it all seemed so unreal to him, until the authorities brought him back to his senses with their questioning. Secondly, he had feelings of deep regret, the way one would if one comes upon the scene of a massive accident and knows there is nothing that he can do to help. He also mentioned that he spent some time at the Roswell hangar where they were putting the material into a C-54 for shipment somewhere, and saw the three bodies laid out on a blanket by the door. EVALUATION: With regard to some technical features: Assuming the porcelain- like substance to be a dielectric material, this coupled with the inner and outer metallic coating could constitute a large capacitor which could passively store a fair amount of electrical energy. In addition, the light weight would appear to constitute something similar to the new aerogel-like substances presently being developed, in which case negative buoyancy (weight) could be minimized to the point that the craft characteristics might approach those of a rigid dirigible. Such features in combination could optimize efficiency. H. E. Puthoff COMMENTS: The main purpose of reporting this at this time is because of the similarities between this report and what is written in Corso's book on Roswell plus there are similarities with what is written in the Mj-12 Docs as well. MUFON I understand also did an interview with this source in and around the same time frame but to my knowledge there has never been any follow-up to check the veracity of this source by anyone. RMC 97'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Air Force Final Report - NOT! From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:20:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Air Force Final Report - NOT! Special release from UFO Magazine. Don Ecker The AIR FORCE releases its "Final Report" June 24th, 1997 began with a continuous stream of telephone calls at the offices of UFO Magazine. Media from CBS radio, MSNBC, NBC, EXTRA and various regional radio programing around the U.S. all wanted interviews on the Air Force's press briefing on the "final word" on the Roswell situation. The briefing was yet to happen. I arrived at NBC in Burbank, and after being wired up like an astronaut ready for a shuttle flight, I watched Air Force spokesman Colonel John Haynes waving the thick report about, much like a television evangelist waving the "Holy Word." Prepared for another blanket denial by the Air Force, I was amazed to hear Haynes state the following items: 1. The witnesses to the original "event" in 1947 mis-identified a balloon for a flying disk. 2. The reports about bodies were actually caused by people witnessing high altitude balloon experiments where the Air Force dropped dummies from balloons and the witnesses really saw the dummies being retrieved. 3. People confused the crash of a KC-97 aircraft where 11 Air Force members were killed with something anomalous . 4. People also got confused by a manned balloon accident where two Air Force pilots were injured. 5. Col. Haynes concluded with, "The Air Force can't even keep a single secret. How could we perpetuate a conspiracy?" During all this, archival film footage was being shown with what looked like advanced aircraft and space probes being demonstrated, some re-entering the atmosphere or sitting on the ground looking for all the world like... a flying saucer! Not too bad, until you start to use common sense--which, by the looks of it, isn't too common. Forget for a second that in 1947, the men stationed at the Roswell Army Air Field were the most elite in the U.S. military. This was, after all, the only location on the entire planet that harbored atomic weapons and the means to deliver them. But these men, we are to believe, couldn't distinguish between a balloon and its array and a real flying saucer! Forget that this military organization, the 509th, was the one to release the original press brief stating they captured a flying disk-- not parts, not pieces, but a whole disk. Read the original story published in the Roswell Daily Record. Hardly a mention at all that the Air Force's high-altitude balloon experiments that involved dropping dummies never began until 1954. In other words, these "stupid" people confused the events of Roswell with events that did not happen until at least seven years later! The crash of a KC-97 aircraft which killed 11 men--also in the Air Force report-- happened in 1956! This is nine years later! The balloon mishap in which 2 pilots were injured did not occur until 1959! Remember the file footage just mentioned? This was NASA archival footage from the 1960s and the 1970s If the Air Force or Haynes can't keep a secret, then I suggest Haynes resign his commission and go into selling aluminum siding. In the numerous TV and radio programs in which I participated, I pointed out time and time again these inconsistences. I also told the journalists that it was not even a case of whether an alien ship crashed or not, but it was more about lies, deceit, and misinformation. Are we really expected to believe that in 1947, the most elite of our military forces would make such a bone-headed and blunderous mistake? Remember, if you can, what kind of world it was then. Just two years prior, the most expensive war in history concluded, resulting in 60 million dead human beings. The cold war was heating up, the Berlin blockade was about to happen. The Soviets were perceived as being on the march. Greece was in danger of going communist. People here in the U. S. were starting to look for communists under every bed. If Colonel Wm . Blanchard and Major Jesse Marcel had made such a blunder as not being able to I.D. a simple balloon array (forget the Project Mogul explanation, the Mogul balloon and array were NOT top secret, its MISSION was!) would the Army Air Force have allowed such men to stay in command? At the very least, they would have received official letters of reprimand. This would have finished their careers! Did it? Absolutely not. Blanchard went on to become a General Officer. Marcel was promoted to Lt. Colonel. And let's not forget the hundreds of first- and second-hand witnesses who all tell a different story. This story is not finished. As UFO Magazine gets the entire report and follows up we will report our findings. June 24, 1997. The day of the Air Force "Final Report?" Not even close! Don Ecker Director of Research UFO Magazine donfeii@aol.com www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Globe & Mail - Canada - Travel Article From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:02:17 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail - Canada - Travel Article List members, Tired of hearing about dummies? Maybe this slant will interest you. This is from today's (Wednesday, June 25, 1997) Toronto Globe and Mail. It is only part of a much larger article in the Travel section which includes the history of the Roswell incident. There is also a chronology of events from July 1947 onward including the "fact" that Penthouse magazine included a photo of a supposed dead alien found at the crash site. This just happens to be next to a photo of the dummy...oops sorry about that!...from the International Roswell Museum and Research Center. (This is what was photographed for the Penthouse article...just in case you hadn't heard!). Another well-researched newspaper article! Enjoy Drew ************************************** Roswell makes corporations nervous JOHN Brower thought he had the perfect idea for the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident: a corporate sponsored mega-concert at the UFO crash site. He was wrong. He admits that overpriced sponsorship offers may have kept some companies away from the event, but says the biggest problem was that the Roswell mystery made corporations nervous because it deals with a possible government cover-up. "There's been some concern that this event is not just an entertainment event, but it's a very confrontational event that's challenging the integrity of the United States government, "Brower said from Los Angeles. "And I think that a number of corporations at the very highest level decided that this wasn't the kind of fun that they wanted to have, and that there could be possible repercussions. We have had that sentiment voiced to us by more than one corporate executive." Then in March came the mass-suicide of 39 Heaven's Gate cult members, who believed that by killing themselves, they were actually going to another planet via an alien spaceship. Sponsors who were wavering on whether or not to sponsor the concert saw this as the final straw, and declined. "Madison Avenue was certainly not warming up to aliens that week," Brower said. Things began looking up last week when Time magazine put Roswell on the cover and bands started calling up to ask if they could play during the Encounter '97 week. Brower hopes he can put together a Saturday night concert. If not, he will have to satisfy himself with an all night dance party of techno music at the crash site. -Keith McArthur ****************** Still planning to attend Encounter '97? Gooooooood luck! The following is from the same article. Drew ****************** IF YOU GO Roswell's UFO Encounter Getting there: Mesa and Lone Star airlines both fly to Roswell from Dallas-Fort Worth. Mesa has service from Albuquerque. UFO Encounter '97: Runs from Tuesday July 1 to Sunday July 6. Special events for Encounter '97 include a UFO film festival, a soapbox derby using home-made alien vehicles, and an all-night dance party at the Corn ranch. There will also be a speakers' series featuring some of the biggest names in UFO research, including Stanton Friedman from the University of New Brunswick. Accommodation: Hotels in and around Roswell have long been booked solid for Encounter '97, so be prepared to travel up to 150 kms to your hotel. Or bring a tent to camp at the Corn ranch-one of the places claiming to be the site where the UFO crashed in 1947. Camping will be allowed there for the first time during Encounter week. Attractions: There are two UFO museums in Roswell. There is no charge to enter The International UFO Museum and Research Centre at 400 N. Main St.(505) 625-9495. For now, UFO Enigma remains down the street at 6108 S. Main St. Entry there is $1 for adults and 50 cents for children.(505) 347-2275. Tours of the Corn ranch site are given year round for the hefty fee of $15 (U.S.) per adult. The tour is free for children. Call Hub or Shela Corn at (505) 623-4043. Another candidate for official crash site is within Lincoln Memorial Forest, about 90 km from Roswell. You can get a map to the site from The International UFO Museum and Research Centre on Main Street. You can also visit the military hanger where the spaceship was supposed to have been taken and where a secret alien autopsy is rumoured to have taken place. Information: Call the Roswell Chamber of Commerce, (800) 2957611, or find information about the crash on the Web site of The Roswell Daily Record at; http://www.sierra-vista .com/roswell Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Roswell Press Conference Transcripts at CNN From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:24:01 +0930 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:05:15 -0400 Subject: Roswell Press Conference Transcripts at CNN Hi All, I have just located transcripts of the USAF Roswell "Case Closed" Pres s Conference. These are available for download at CNN, link below. Link to Roswell Conference Transcript: http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9706/24/tod.06.html USAF Publishes Report to put an end to Roswell Myth: http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9706/24/tod.03.html Transcripts Index (For these and other reports): http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/tod.html I hope this is of some help to you. Regards, ASIUS. Director - SAUFORI Email - asius@mindless.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Big Hanger From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 12:08:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:00:08 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Big Hanger >>From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Big Hanger >>All of the speculation on the Internet and in the media lately about the >>big V that was seen flying over Arizona in March has raised some >>interesting questions. Richard Boylan released a statement recently >>saying this could very likely be a military achievement. Dear John and Jared, There will be further updates to this March 13th sighting as new input is evaluated. The big V was only one of several VLOs (Very Large Objects) seen on that particular night. In addition there was a big black triangle with amber-glowing lights and several big balls of light that hung over the eastern valley and western valley. A FOIA response from FAA so far has yielded no records and a FOIA response from Luke now reverses and earlier statement they made regarding jet aircraft being airborne the night of the sighting. Lt. Col. Hauser now says there were F-16s on a training flight that night, but not on intercept. I will soon have documentation to help refute any flare theory. A local talk show host has gotten himself out on a limb declaring the big black triangle to be a military vehicle, presumably for the NWO! That is simply nonsense. The object is unidentified and of unknown origin until someone comes up with its flight plan. Discovery channel wants to do an hour special on the Phoenix sightings and has contacted me about this project. When we have an hour to present the case, it should put to rest a lot of the wild speculation going on which has included such wild explanations as: 1) The B-2 bomber (no resemblance) 2) Fire-balloons (worthy of little comment) 3) Electric ultralights with halogen lamps (give me a break, please) 4) Military aircraft 5) Military flares 6) Some sort of kite contraption (flying on a string down the entire state?) These explanations have nothing to do with the scientific process which involves gathering all of the data, analyzing the data, and formulating a carefully crafted hypothesis to account for the data. This process takes time and effort. However, even after a cursory evaluation of the myriad reports we have collected from civilian and military sources, we can readily see that all of the amateur proffered solutions do NOT fit the facts. To date, the objects still remain unidentified, unconventional, and unknown. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com NOTE: CHANGE IN WORK E-MAIL: Work e-mail: william.hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Air Force Final Report - NOT! From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:11:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Air Force Final Report - NOT! > From: DONFEII@aol.com > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:59:25 -0400 (EDT) > Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:20:18 -0400 > Subject: Re: Air Force Final Report - NOT! > Special release from UFO Magazine. > Don Ecker > The AIR FORCE releases its "Final Report" > During all this, archival film footage was being shown with what > looked like advanced aircraft and space probes being > demonstrated, some re-entering the atmosphere or sitting on the > ground looking for all the world like... a flying saucer! Not too > bad, until you start to use common sense--which, by the looks of > it, isn't too common. > Forget for a second that in 1947, the men stationed at the > Roswell Army Air Field were the most elite in the U.S. military. > This was, after all, the only location on the entire planet that > harbored atomic weapons and the means to deliver them. But these > men, we are to believe, couldn't distinguish between a balloon > and its array and a real flying saucer! > Forget that this military organization, the 509th, was the one to > release the original press brief stating they captured a flying > disk-- not parts, not pieces, but a whole disk. Read the original > story published in the Roswell Daily Record. > Hardly a mention at all that the Air Force's high-altitude > balloon experiments that involved dropping dummies never began > until 1954. In other words, these "stupid" people confused the > events of Roswell with events that did not happen until at least > seven years later! > The crash of a KC-97 aircraft which killed 11 men--also in the > Air Force report-- happened in 1956! This is nine years later! > The balloon mishap in which 2 pilots were injured did not occur > until 1959! Well stated here Don, I would just like to add one thing (please anyone feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong) It's been my understanding that none of the Roswell crash witnesses like Frank Kauffman and such ever asserted that the crashed UFO was saucer shaped. in fact, none of them said that it was even round. Wasn't the accepted shape of the UFO that crashed a delta-wing configuration that was cracked in the center? This little detail was really going through my mind as I watched the CNN coverage of the press conference and Haynes' descriptions of footage that were showing saucer shaped lifting bodies attached to ballons and parachutes. All the time I was wondering to myself "I don't think the Air Force got the shape right, here" Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 25 Re: Big Hanger From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:10:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger [The following is an exception to the 'No Boylan Posts' rule on this List - ebk] >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:00:08 -0500 >Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:17:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: Big Hanger >When something happens in the real world, this 'quack from the coast' >is quick to blame human agencies, but when it comes to millionares who >(Dr Boylan claims) resemble telepathic dolphins from Tralfamador or >some such nonsense he's Johnny on the spot with his ravings of aliens >and secret agents coming out of the woodwork. Why _anyone_ listens to >this man, or bothers to quote him is a source of great wonder to me! John, I know exactly what you're talking about here. I cited some Brazilian research recently that I consider to be one of the best UFO case studies ever done. The results of this very objective research yielded some conclusions that most American and European ufologists are not aware of and are somewhat disturbing because they do not fit into the accepted dogma that so many ufologists have created for themselves. Dr. Boylan jumped all over me when I posted this research stating that ET's would never hurt humans etc. Here is a transcript of that exchange. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Someone asked me (can't remember who) to repost an excerpt I copied out of Bob Pratt's book on Brazil that was released late last year so here it is: It's a funny thing. Living in the United States and Great Britain, most of us have no idea what's really going on. Let's take our areas of high UFO activity for example....places like the San Luis Valley, Gulf Breeze FL., or Pine Bush NY. These are what we would call areas of high UFO activity or incidence. Now a resident of Colares, Brazil would probably disagree....in fact, they would likely contend that we don't know what high UFO activity is. Let me explain: The following is an excerpt from UFO Danger Zone - Bob Pratt's new book about Close Encounter type 6 cases in Brazil. "UFOs have been deadlier in Colares than perhaps any other place in the world. Colares is one of thirty villages at the mouth of the Amazon river where for more than a year people weren't safe from UFOs even inside their own homes. UFOs would beam down rays of light that would penetrate roofs as if they didn't exist. Sometimes the beams would strike someone, and other times, they would snake around as if searching for something. Terrified inhabitants would jump out of the way, but some got burned anyway. This happened in a broad area only 15 to 30 miles north of the busy metropolis of Belem. Just how many persons were injured will never be known, but in Colares alone approximately forty were burned and two of them died. A third person died three years later possibly as a result of the UFO burns she suffered. In addition, a pregnant woman lost her baby after being hit by a beam of light, and a dog died when a UFO shined a light on it when it was barking at the UFO. The "discos" were seen so often that the Air Force conducted an official investigation in the area for months. A captain and a number of sargents from the Belem air base questioned hundreds of people who'd had sightings and harmful encounters. They also reportedly administered drugs to help calm people down. The information that the team gathered plus, numerous photographs of UFOs that the investigators themselves took were sent to Air Force headquarters in the nation's capital, Brasilia, but none of the findings or photos have ever officially been released." pg. 177 changes your perspective doesn't it? rich.boylan@24stex.com wrote: > > > Jared, > >Sounds to me like UFO Cover-Up organization psy-ops, using (once again) >a Third World area as guinea pig for terroristic operations meant to be >mis-ascribed to the visiting extraterrestrials. >In the U.S., "cattle mutilations" are another psychological warfare >operation carried out by the UFO Cover-Up organization's "special forces" to >try to create a bad image of visiting extraterrestrials. >Real extraterrestrials don't go around killing humans; (but the >Cover-Up organization would like you to believe that ETs do.) >Caveat emptor. > Richard Boylan, Ph.D. jared@valuserve.com (andromeda.net - Jared Anderson) wrote Now that's a whopper Richard. If you're comparing this to the activity that has occurred recently in Puerto Rico, I would have to contend that this is entirely different. The Colares incident occurred in 1977-78 and was happening all over the place, all over remote Brazil. Witnesses said the UFOs were materializing out of nothing chasing or harassing the locals and then vanishing again. The activity in this area was so intense that most locals refused to go outside at night because there had been so many harmful encounters. This is some of the most amazing UFO activity I've ever studied because it actually began to affect the community socially. The book reinforces 2 points. First it suggests that not all ETs have a benevolent approach or are concerned about our welfare, and secondly it also suggests there at least some types of activity have a geographical component.Perhaps you've read Pretson Dennot's book "UFO healings"?. This book is an account of abductees mostly in the United States that have been healed during an abduction and he uses medical evidence to back his claims. Most of the cases witnesses describe Grey type aliens. UFO Danger Zone would be the opposite. UFOs that cause harm or injury as a result of their intrusion. Several different types of aliens were described by the Brazilian witnesses during CE-3 encounters and not one of these cases described beings that resembled Greys. Bob's research suggest that the ETs that have been busy in these areas are not the same beings that are seen more often in the US. Bob does say that as many cases as he saw that proved harmful to the witnesses, he did not see any cases where a UFO deliberately killed a witness. If a witness died as a result of being hit or burned by a beam of light, it was usually weeks or months later and the mortality was co-associated with symptoms that developed later. Bob spoke to the Doctor in Colares that treated many of the locals that had been burned and she discovered that when a beam of light hit the witness tiny holes accompanied the burn and she theorized that this was some type of remote blood extraction technique. This theory gained more creedance later in the other case studies. Different researchers develop different conclusions about the nature of UFO activity based on the cases they study. Bob feels the UFO activity in Brazil has a very strong interdemensional component and essentially agrees with Vallee. Vallee wrote the forward in the book. One of the things that cannot be ignored by the Brazilian case studies is the realization that different races of ETs have different "methods" of studying and observing humans. rich.boylan@24stex.com wrote: > > Jared: > >I said nothing about Puerto Rico. >You have furnished no definitive evidence to establish that the harming >of rural Brazilians was the work of extraterrestrials. >You very tellingly did not reply at all to the issue of psychological >warfare operations by the UFO Cover-Up organization to frighten the public >about ETs and their intentions. jared@valuserve.com (andromeda.net - Jared Anderson) wrote: Dr. Boylan these are very rash assertions. I strongly suggest you take them up with the investigators rather than drawing unsubstantiated conclusions. Personally I saw nothing in this research to suggest the involvement of Black Ops. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Collin Powell From: dan syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:20:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:11:37 -0400 Subject: Collin Powell List, The other day at work, a friend of mine mentioned the following: He was listening to the radio on a local rock station. During one of the breaks, the station decided to take calls on opinions of the sightings that the news finally caught up with over the sightings in Phoniex. Apparently, a person called in claiming to be Collin Powell's former driver back in the 80's. This person stated that one evening while driving the General around in Germany, they were involved in a sighting...I don't know the whole details, but it seemed typical. Bright lights, vehical died, that sort of stuff. Anyhow, General Powell told the driver to keep his mouth shut, and the sighting had never happened. The radio station my friend was listening to is a re-broadcast of a station out of somewhere in Southern California. Anyone one else by chance hear anything about this???? Dan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Archive File: USAF Text On UFOs From: DON ALLEN Date: 10-24-93 (10:41) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:52:31 -0400 Subject: Archive File: USAF Text On UFOs It has been known for some time that during the late 1960's and early 1970's the U.S. Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs had some material on UFOs in its curriculum. The chapter of the textbook "Introductory Space Science" for the class Physics 370 has been posted on CUFON for quite a while. This file contains expanded coverage, including a newspaper article from the "Lemoore Advance, A letter of reply from the A.F. Academy transmitting copies of the two versions of Chapter 33, Chapter 33 as it was in use from 1968 - 1970, and the revised Chapter 33 placed in use for the Fall Quarter, 1970. (Posted 14 MAY 1992) -- Jim Klotz, SYSOP ===================================================================== from the Lemoore, CA Advance, October 8, 1970 --------------------------------------------------------------------- AIR ACADEMY TEXT BOOK URGES MORE STUDY OF UFO SIGHTINGS by TED HUBBARD Students at the U.S. Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs are being taught to stop scoffing at the mention of UFO's or "flying saucers" and to keep an open mind on the subject. This was made clear last Thursday in an interview given by Major Stewart Kilpatrick, deputy Director of Public Information of the Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, to the Lemoore Advance in a lengthy and exclusive phone interview. The "National Enquirer," a country-wide journal, which claims the "largest circulation of any weekly paper in America," headlined this following statement, "Air Force Academy Textbook Warns Cadets That UFO's May Be Spacecraft Operated by Aliens From Other Worlds," in its Oct. 11 issue. "Because so many of our readers are interested personally in aircraft, The Advance sought to verify what appeared to be exaggerated claims and somewhat on the unbelievable side. This despite the reported sightings of some strange craft over Lemoore by several witnesses a few weeks ago. Major Kilpatrick, as second ranking officer in public affairs at the Air Academy, is in a position to speak authoritatively for the Air Force. He admitted at once that Plebes are taught from a text entitled "Introductory Space Science, Volume II" and an entire Chapter 33 deals entirely with UFO considerations. He quoted from page 455, that "50,000 virtually reliable people have reported sighting unidentified flying objects." "This leads us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet," the 14-page chapter continues, "or at least alien controlled UFO's." According to the Academy text book: "If such beings are visiting the earth, two questions arise: (1) Why haven't they attempted to contact us officially, and (2) Why haven't there been accidents which would have revealed their presence? "Why no contact? That question is very easy to answer in any of several ways: (1) We may be the object of intensive sociological and psychological study. In such studies you usually avoid disturbing the test subjects' environment. (2) You do not contact a colony of ants - and humans may seem that way any aliens (variation: a zoo is fun to visit, but you don't 'contact' the lizards). (3) Such contact may have already taken place secretly, and may have taken piece on a different plane of awareness - and we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane." In releasing this interview in The Lemoore Advance we are well aware that many readers will certainly "raise an eyebrow or two." But Major Kilpatrick insisted the above chapter in the text is not a fairy story. At the end he seemed to go along with the recommendations of the physics text book which advises Air Force officers as follows: "The best thing to do is to keep an open and skeptical mind - and not take an extreme position on any side of the question." "Introductory Space Science" closes the chapter with the wish expressed that renewed extensive investigation be given to the possibility of UFO's. This will require expenditure of a considerable sum of government funds, it explained, and in the present public attitude of scorn and ridicule whenever "UFO's" are mentioned, such possibility seems almost hopeless the chapter laments. As most people know, the Dr. Eugene U. Condon investigation was closed down by the Pentagon and no present official scientific investigation is now operating in this field. In 1966 we talked with six different Air Force pilots at Travis Air Force Base, who claimed to have seen UFO's but stated they did not dare report them for fear of extreme ridicule. At least in 1970 this Air Force attitude seems to have changed as indicated by Major Kilpatrick interview with The Advance. Lemoore's representative at the Colorado Springs Academy is Steve (Moon) Mullens, former basketball star on the Tiger team, and alumnus of Lemoore High. We are asking him his opinion of his science text's presentation of the so called UFO's. ================================================================= DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY USAF ACADEMY, COLORADO 80840 REPLY TO ATTN OF: OI 4 NOV 1970 In reference to your recent inquiry to the Air Force Academy concerning Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's), the following facts are provided for your information. The subject of UFO's is examined briefly at the end of an Academy selective course, Physics 370, which usually attracts approximately 20 students per semester. The UFO subject falls under the course objective of discussing all observable or reported physical phenomena occurring from the surface of the sun to the surface of the planets. When the UFO subject was first included in the course, the subject served, from an academic point of view, to illustrate that when contradictory data are available, the best course is to keep an open mind and search for further data. The subject remains an excellent vehicle to discuss the implications and applications of many basic physical laws to "observed" phenomena. The source of recent news media stories concerning the study of UFO's at the Air Force Academy was an out-of-date chapter in the course text entitled "Introductory Space Science", a two-volume, 470-page unpublished work printed in a spiral notebook by the Academy for classroom use. The last chapter in the second volume was a 14-page chapter entitled "Unidentified Flying Objects". When this chapter was written and printed in 1968, the Air Force was still collecting reports of UFO sightings under Project Blue Book and sponsoring the investigation of UFO's by Dr. E. U. Condon of the University of Colorado. The Condon report was completed in early 1969 with the general conclusion that nothing has come from the study of UFO's in the past two decades that has added to scientific knowledge and that further extensive study of UFO's probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced. "MAN'S FLIGHT THROUGH LIFE IS SUSTAINED BY THE POWER OF KNOWLEDGE" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Based on the conclusions of the Condon report and its own twenty-year UFO experience, the Air Force terminated Project Blue Book in December 1969 with this final statement, "As a result of investigating UFO reports since 1948, the conclusions of Project Blue Book are (1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security; (2) there has been no evidence sub- mitted or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present-day scientific knowledge; and (3) there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' are extraterrestrial vehicles." In light of these developments, the in-class content of the course was changed to present orally the conclusions of the Condon report and the reasons why the Air Force cancelled Project Blue Book. It was considered uneconomical to reprint the entire second volume for such a limited number of students until the fall of 1970. Beginning with the 1970 fall semester, a revised updated chapter entitled 'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" has been substituted for the old chapter so that the text now follows the oral in-class presentation on this subject. For your further information we are enclosing a copy of (1) the old Chapter 33, which is no longer being used and (2) a copy of the new, current Chapter 33 now being used by students of Physics 370 beginning with this fall 1970 semester. I hope this letter clarifies your questions concerning the study and treatment of UFO's at the Air Force Academy, Sincerely /s/ James F Sunderman James F Sunderman, Colonel, USAF 2 Atchs Director of Information 1. Old Chapter 33 2. Updated Chapter 33 =================================================================== (Chapter 33 of "Introductory Space Science" Physics 370 1968 - 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE - VOLUME II - DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS - USAF Edited by: Major Donald G. Carpenter Co-Editor: Lt. Colonel Edward R. Therkelson CHAPTER XXXIII UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS What is an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO)? Well, according to United States Air Force Regulation 80-17 (dated 19 September 1966), a UFO is "Any aerial Phe-nomenon or object which is unknown or appears to be out of the ordinary to the observer." This is a very broad definition which applies equally well to one individual seeing his first noctilucent cloud at twilight as it does to another individual seeing his first helicopter. However, at present most people consider the term UFO to mean an object which behaves in a strange or erratic manner while moving through the Earth's atmosphere. That strange phenomenon has evoked strong emotions and great curiosity among a large segment of our world's population. The average person is interested because he loves a mystery, the professional military man is involved because of the possible threat to national security, and some scientists are interested because of the basic curiosity that led them into becoming researchers. The literature on UFO's is so vast, and the stories so many and varied, that we can only present a sketchy outline of the subject in this chapter. That outline includes description classifications, operational domains (temporal and spatial), some theories as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon, human reactions, attempts to attack the problem scientifically, and some tentative conclusions. If you wish to read further in this area, the references provide an excellent starting point. 33.1 DESCRIPTORS One of the greatest problems you encounter when attempting to catalog UFO sightings, is selection of a system for cataloging. No effective system has yet been devised, although a number of different systems have been proposed. The net result is that almost all UFO data are either treated in the form of individual cases, or in the forms of inadequate classification systems. However, these systems do tend to have some common factors, and a collection of these factors is as follows: a. Size b. Shape (disc, ellipse, football, etc.) c. Luminosity d. Color e. Number of UFO's Behavior: a. Location (altitude, direction, etc.) b. Patterns of paths (straight line, climbing, zig-zagging, etc.) 455 --------------------------------------------------------------------- c. Flight Characteristics (wobbling, fluttering, etc.) d. Periodicity of sightings e. Time duration f. Curiosity or inquisitiveness g. Avoidance h. Hostility Associated Effects: a. Electro-Magnetic (compass, radio, ignition systems, etc.) b. Radiation (burns, induced radioactivity, etc.) c. Ground disturbance (dust stirred up, leaves moved, standing wave d. Sound (none, hissing, humming, roaring, thunderclaps, etc.) e. Vibration (weak, strong, slow, fast) f. Smell (ozone or other odor) g. Flame (how much, where, when, color) h. Smoke or cloud (amount, color, persistence) i. Debris (type, amount, color, persistence) j. Inhibition of voluntary movement by observers k. Sighting of "creatures" or "beings" After Effects: a. Burned areas or animals b. Depressed or flattened areas c. Dead or missing animals d. Mentally disturbed people e. Missing items 456 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- We make no attempt here to present available data in terms of the foregoing descriptors. 33.2 OPERATIONAL DOMAINS - TEMPORAL AND SPATIAL What we will do here is to present evidence that UFO's are a global phenomenon which may have persisted for many thousands of years. During this discussion, please remember that the more ancient the reports the less sophisticated the observer. Not only were the ancient observers lacking the terminology necessary to describe complex devices (such as present day helicopters) but they were also lacking the concepts necessary to understand the true nature of such things as television, spaceships, rockets, nuclear weapons and radiation effects. To some, the most advanced technological concept was a war chariot with knife blades attached to the wheels. By the same token, the very lack of accurate terminology and descriptions leaves the more ancient reports open to considerable misinterpretation, and it may well be that present evaluations of individual reports are completely wrong. Nevertheless, let us start with an intriguing story in one of the oldest chronicles of India...the Book of Dzyan. The book is a group of "story-teller" legends which were finally gathered in manuscript form when man learned to write. One of the stories is of a small group of beings who supposedly came to Earth many thousands of years ago in a metal craft which orbited the Earth several times before landing. As told in the Book "These beings lived to themselves and were revered by the humans among whom they had settled. But eventually differences arose among them and they divided their numbers, several of the men and women and some children settled in another city, where they were promptly installed as rulers by the awe- stricken populace. "Separation did not bring peace to these people and finally their anger reached a point where the ruler of the original city took with him a small number of his warriors and they rose into the air in a huge shining metal vessel. While they were many leagues from the city of their enemies, they launched a great shining lance that rode on a beam of light. It burst apart in the city of their enemies with a great ball of flame that shot up to the heavens, almost to the stars. All those who were in the city were horribly burned and even those who were not in the city - but nearby - were burned also. Those who looked upon the lance and the ball of fire were blinded forever afterward. Those who entered the city on foot became ill and died. Even the dust of the city was poisoned, as were the rivers that flowed through it. Men dared not go near it, and it gradually crumbled into dust and was forgotten by men." "When the leader saw what he had done to his own people he retired to his palace and refused to see anyone. Then he gathered about him those warriors who remained, and their wives and children, and they entered their vessels and rose one by one into the sky and sailed away. Nor did they return." Could this foregoing legend really be an account of an extraterrestrial colonization, complete with guided missile, nuclear warhead and radiation effects? It is difficult to assess the validity of that explanation... just as it is difficult to explain why 457 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Greek, Roman and Nordic Mythology all discuss wars and contacts among their "Gods." (Even the Bible records conflict between the legions of God and Satan.) Could it be that each group recorded their parochial view of what was actually a global conflict among alien colonists or visitors? Or is it that man has led such a violent existence that he tends to expect conflict and violence among even his gods? Evidence of perhaps an even earlier possible contact was uncovered by Tschi Pen Lao of the University of Peking. He discovered astonishing carvings in granite on a mountain in Hunan Province and on an island in Lake Tungting. These carvings have been evaluated as 47,000 years old, and they show people with large trunks (breathing apparatus?...or "elephant" heads shown on human bodies? Remember, the Egyptians often represented their gods as animal heads on human bodies.) Only 8,000 years ago, rocks were sculpted in the Tassili plateau of Sahara, depicting what appeared to be human beings but with strange round heads (helmets? or "sun" heads on human bodies?) And even more recently, in the Bible, Genesis (6:4) tells of angels from the sky mating with women of Earth, who bore them children. Genesis 19:3 tells of Lot meeting two angels in the desert and his later feeding them at his house. The Bible also tells a rather unusual story of Ezekiel who witnessed what has been interpreted by some to have been a spacecraft or aircraft landing near the Chebar River in Chaldea (593 B.C.). Even the Irish have recorded strange visitations. In the Speculum Regali in Konungs Skuggsa (and other accounts of the era about 956 A.D.) are numerous stories of "demonships" in the skies. In one case a rope from one such ship became entangled with part of a church. A man from the ship climbed down the rope to free it, but was seized by the townspeople. The bishop made the people release the man, who climbed back to the ship, where the crew cut the rope and the ship rose and sailed out of sight. In all of his actions, the climbing man appeared as if he were swimming in water. Stories such as this makes one wonder if the legends of the "little people" of Ireland were based upon imagination alone. About the same time, in Lyons (France) three men and a women supposedly descended from an airship or spaceship and were captured by a mob. These foreigners admitted to being wizards, and were killed. (No mention is made of the methods employed to extract the admissions.) Many documented UFO sightings occurred throughout the Middle Ages, including an especially startling one of a UFO over London on 16 December 1742. However, we do not have room to include any more of the Middle Ages sightings. Instead, two "more-recent" sightings are contained in this section to bring us up to modern times. In a sworn statement dated 21 April 1897, a prosperous and prominent farmer named Alexander Hamilton (Le Roy, Kansas, U.S.A.) told of an attack upon his cattle at about 10:30 p.m. the previous Monday. He, his son, and his tenant grabbed axes and ran some 700 feet from the house to the cow lot where a great cigar-shaped ship about 300 feet long floated some 30 feet above the cattle. It had a carriage underneath which was brightly lighted within (dirigible and gondola?) and which had numerous windows. Inside were six strange looking beings jabbering in a foreign 458 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- language. These beings suddenly became aware of Hamilton and the others. They immediately turned a searchlight on the farmer, and also turned on some power which sped up a turbine wheel (about 30 ft. diameter) located under the craft. The ship rose, taking with it a two-year old heifer which was roped about the neck by a cable of one-half inch thick, red material. The next day a neighbor, Link Thomas, found the animal's hide, legs and head in his field. He was mystified at how the remains got to where they were because of the lack of tracks in the soft soil. Alexander Hamilton's sworn statement was accompanied by an affidavit as to his veracity. The affidavit was signed by ten of the local leading citizens. On the evening of 4 November 1957 at Fort Itaipu, Brazil, two sentries noted a "new star" in the sky. The "star" grew in size and within seconds stopped over the fort. It drifted slowly downward, was as large as a big aircraft, and was surround by a strong orange glow. A distinct humming sound was heard, and then the heat struck. One sentry collapsed almost immediately, the other managed to slide to shelter under the heavy cannons where his loud cries awoke the garrison. While the troops were scrambling towards their battle stations, complete electrical failure occurred. There was panic until the lights came back on but a number of men still managed to see an orange glow leaving the area at high speed. Both sentries were found badly burned...one unconscious and the other incoherent, suffering from deep shock. Thus, UFO sightings not only appear to extend back to 47,000 years through time but also are global in nature. One has the feeling that this phenomenon deserves some sort of valid scientific investigation, even if it is a low level effort. 33.3 SOME THEORIES AS TO THE NATURE OF THE UFO PHENOMENON There are very few cohesive theories as to the nature of UFO's. Those theories that have been advanced can be collected in five groups: a. Mysticism b. Hoaxes, and rantings due to unstable personalities c. Secret Weapons d. Natural Phenomena e. Alien visitors Mysticism It is believed by some cults that the mission of UFO's and their crews is a spiritual one, and that all materialistic efforts to determine the UFO's nature are doomed to failure. 459 ------------------------------------------------------------- Hoaxes and Rantings due to Unstable Personalities Some have suggested that all UFO reports were the results of pranks and hoaxes, or were made by people with unstable personalities. This attitude was particularly prevalent during the time period when the Air Force investigation was being operated under the code name of Project Grudge. A few airlines even went as far as to ground every pilot who reported seeing a "flying saucer." The only way for the pilot to regain flight status was to undergo a psychiatric examination. There was a noticeable decline in pilot reports during this time interval, and a few interpreted this decline to prove that UFO's were either hoaxes or the result of unstable personalities. It is of interest that NICAP (The National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena) even today still receives reports from commercial pilots who neglect to notify either the Air Force or their own airline. There are a number of cases which indicate that not all reports fall in the hoax category. We will examine one such case now. It is the Socorro, New Mexico sighting made by police Sergeant Lonnie Zamora. Sergeant Zamora was patrolling the streets of Socorro on 24 April 1964 when he saw a shiny object drift down into an area of gullies on the edge of town. He also heard a loud roaring noise which sounded as if an old dynamite shed located out that way had exploded. He immediately radioed police headquarters, and drove out toward the shed. Zamora was forced to stop about 150 yards away from a deep gully in which there appeared to be an overturned car. He radioed that he was investigating a possible wreck, and then worked his car up onto the mesa and over toward the edge of the gully. He parked short, and when he walked the final few feet to the edge, he was amazed to see that it was not a car but instead was a weird eggshaped object about fifteen feet long, white in color and resting on short, metal legs. Beside it, unaware of his presence were two humanoids dressed in silvery coveralls. They seemed to be working on a portion of the underside of the object. Zamora was still standing there, surprised, when they suddenly noticed him and dove out of sight around the object. Zamora also headed the other way, back toward his car. He glanced back at the object just as a bright blue flame shot down from the underside. Within seconds the eggshaped thing rose out of the gully with "an ear-- splitting roar." The object was out of sight over the nearby mountains almost immediately, and Sergeant Zamora was moving the opposite direction almost as fast when he met Sergeant Sam Chavez who was responding to Zamora's earlier radio calls. Together they investigated the gully and found the bushes charred and still smoking where the blue flame had jetted down on them. About the charred area were four deep marks where the metal legs had been. Each mark was three and one half inches deep, and was circular in shape. The sand in the gully was very hard packed so no sign of the humanoids' footprints could be found. An official investigation was launched that same day, and all data obtained supported the stories of Zamora and Chavez. It is rather difficult to label this episode a hoax, and it is also doubtful that both Zamora and Chavez shared portions of the same hallucination. Secret Weapons A few individuals have proposed that UFO's are actually advanced weapon systems, and that their natures must not be revealed. Very few people accept this as a credible suggestion. 460 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Natural Phenomena It has also been suggested that at least some, and possibly all, of the UFO cases were just misinterpreted manifestations of natural phenomena. Undoubtedly this suggestion has some merit. People have reported, as UFO's, objects which were conclusively proven to be balloons (weather and skyhook), the planet Venus, man-made artificial satellites, normal aircraft, unusual cloud formations, and lights from ceilometers (equipment projecting light beams on cloud bases to determine the height of the aircraft visual ceiling). It is also suspected that people have reported mirages, optical illusions, swamp gas and ball lightning (a poorly-understood discharge of electrical energy in a spheroidal or ellipsoidal shape...some charges have lasted for up to fifteen minutes but the ball is usually no bigger than a large orange.) But it is difficult to tell a swamp dweller that the strange, fast-moving light he saw in the sky was swamp gas; and it is just as difficult to tell a farmer that a bright UFO in the sky is the same ball lightning that he has seen rolling along his fence wires in dry weather. Thus accidental mis- identification of what might well be natural phenomena breeds mistrust and disbelief; it leads to the hasty conclusion that the truth is deliberately not being told. One last suggestion of interest has been made, that the UFO's were plasmoids from space...concentrated blobs of solar wind that succeeded in reaching the surface of the Earth. Somehow this last suggestion does not seem to be very plausible; perhaps because it ignores such things as penetration of Earth's magnetic field. Alien Visitors The most stimulating theory for us is that the UFO's are material objects which are either "Manned" or remote-controlled by beings who are alien to this planet. There is some evidence supporting this viewpoint. In addition to police Sergeant Lonnie Zamora's experience, let us consider the case of Barney and Betty Hill. On a trip through New England they lost two hours on the night of 19 September 1961 without even realizing it. However, after that night both Barney and Betty began developing psychological problems which eventually grew sufficiently severe that they submitted themselves to psychiatric examination and treatment. During the course of treatment hypnotherapy was used, and it yielded remarkably detailed and similar stories from both Barney and Betty. Essentially they had been hypnotically kidnapped, taken aboard a UFO, submitted to two-hour physicals, and released with posthypnotic suggestions to forget the entire incident. The evidence is rather strong that this is what the Hills, even in their subconscious, believe happened to them. And it is of particular importance that after the "posthypnotic block" was removed, both of the Hills ceased having their psychological problems. The Hill's description of the aliens was similar to descriptions provided in other cases, but this particular type of alien appears to be in the minority. The most commonly described alien is about three and one-half feet tall, has a round head (helmet?), arms reaching to or below his knees, and is wearing a silvery space suit or coveralls. Other aliens appear to be essentially the same as Earthmen, while still others have particularly wide (wrap around) eyes and mouths with very thin lips. And there is a rare group reported as about four feet tall, weight of around 461 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 35 pounds, and covered with thick hair or fur (clothing?). Members of this last group are described as being extremely strong. If such beings are visiting Earth, two questions arise: 1) why haven't there been any accidents which have revealed their presence, and 2) why haven't they attempted to contact us officially? The answer to the first question may exist partially in Sergeant Lonnie Zamora's experience, and may exist partially in the Tunguska meteor discussed in Chapter XXIX. In that chapter it was suggested that the Tunguska meteor was actually a comet which exploded in the atmosphere, the ices melted and the dust spread out. Hence, no debris! However, it has also been suggested that the Tunguska meteor was actually an alien spacecraft that entered the atmosphere to rapidly, suffered mechanical failure, and lost its power supply and/or weapons in a nuclear explosion. While that hypothesis may seem far fetched, sample of tree rings from around the world reveal that, immediately after the Tunguska meteor explosion, the level of radioactivity in the world rose sharply for a short period of time. It is difficult to find a natural explanation for that increase in radioactivity, although the suggestion has been advanced that enough of the meteor's great kinetic energy was converted into heat (by atmospheric friction) that a fusion reaction occurred. This still leaves us with no answer to the second question: why no contact? That question is very easy to answer in several ways: 1) we may be the object of intensive sociological and psychological study. In such studies you usually avoid disturbing the test subjects' environment; 2) you do not "contact" a colony of ants, and humans may seem that way to any aliens (variation: a zoo is fun to visit, but you don't "contact" the lizards); 3) such contact may have already taken place secretly; and 4) such contact may have already taken place on a different plane of awareness and we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane. These are just a few of the reasons. You may add to the list as you desire. 33.4 HUMAN FEAR AND HOSTILITY Besides the foregoing reasons, contacting humans is downright dangerous. Think about that for a moment! On the microscopic level our bodies reject and fight (through production antibodies) any alien material; this process helps us fight off disease but it also sometimes results in allergic reactions to innocuous materials. On the macroscopic (psychological and sociological) level we are antagonistic to beings that are "different". For proof of that, just watch how an odd child is treated by other children, or how a minority group is socially deprived, or how the Arabs feel about the Israelis (Chinese vs. Japanese, Turks vs. Greeks, etc.) In case you are hesitant to extend that concept to the treatment of aliens let me point out that in very ancient times, possible extraterrestrials may have been treated as Gods but in the last two thousand years, the evidence is that any possible aliens have been ripped apart by mobs, shot and shot at, physically assaulted, and in general treated with fear and aggression. In Ireland about 1,000 A.D., supposed airships were treated as "demon-ships." In Lyons, France, "admitted" space travellers were killed. More recently, on 24 July 1957 Russian anti-aircraft batteries on the Kouril Islands opened fire on UFO's. Although all Soviet anti-aircraft batteries on the Islands were in action, no hits were made. The UFO's were luminous and moved very fast. We too have fired on UFO's. About ten o'clock one morning, a radar site near a fighter base 462 ----------------------------------------------------------------- picked up a UFO doing 700 mph. The UFO then slowed to 100 mph, and two F-86's were scrambled to intercept. Eventually one F-86 closed on the UFO at about 3, 000 feet altitude. The UFO began to accelerate away but the pilot still managed to get within 500 yards of the target for a short period of time. It was definitely saucer-shaped. As the pilot pushed the F-86 at top speed, the UFO began to pull away. When the range reached 1,000 yards, the pilot armed his guns and fired in an attempt to down the saucer. He failed, and the UFO pulled away rapidly, vanishing in the distance. This same basic situation may have happened on a more personal level. On Sunday evening 21 August 1955, eight adults and three children were on the Sutton Farm (one-half mile from Kelly, Kentucky) when, according to them, one of the children saw a brightly glowing UFO settle behind the barn, out of sight from where he stood. Other witnesses on nearby farms also saw the object. However, the Suttons dismissed it as a "shooting star," and did not investigate. Approximately thirty minutes later (at 8 p.m.), the family dogs began barking so two of the men went to the back door and looked out. Approximately 50 feet away and coming toward them was a creature wearing a glowing silvery suit. It was about three and one-half feet tall with a large round head and very long arms. It had large webbed hands which were equipped with claws. The two Suttons grabbed a twelve gauge shotgun and a 22 caliber pistol, and fired at close range. They could hear the pellets and bullet ricochet as if off of metal. The creature was knocked down, but jumped up and scrambled away. The Suttons retreated into the house, turned off all inside lights, and turned on the porch-light. At that moment, one of the women who was peeking out of the dining room window discovered that a creature with some sort of helmet and wide slit eyes was peeking back at her. She screamed, the men rushed in and started shooting. The creature was knocked backwards but again scrambled away without apparent harm. More shooting occurred (a total of about 50 rounds) over the next 20 minutes and the creatures finally left (perhaps feeling unwelcome?) After about a two hour wait (for safety), the Suttons left too. By the time the police got there, the aliens were gone but the Suttons would not move back to the farm. They sold it and departed. This reported incident does bear out the contention though that humans are dangerous. At no time in the story did the supposed aliens shoot back, although one is left with the impression that the described creatures were having fun scaring humans. 33.5 ATTEMPTS AT SCIENTIFIC APPROACHES In any scientific endeavor, the first step is to acquire data, the second step to classify the data, and the third step to form hypothesis. The hypothesis are tested by repeating the entire process, with each cycle resulting in an increase in understanding (we hope). The UFO phenomenon does not yield readily to this approach because the data taken so far exhibits both excessive variety and vagueness. The vagueness is caused in part by the lack of preparation of the observer...very few people leave their house knowing that they are going to see a UFO that evening. Photographs are overexposed or underexposed, and rarely in color. Hardly anyone carries around a radiation counter or magnetometer. And, in addition to this, there is a very high level of "noise" in the data. The noise consists of mistaken reports of known natural phenomena, hoaxes, reports by unstable individuals and mistaken removal of data regarding possible unnatural or unknown natural phenomena (by 463 --------------------------------------------------------------------- <<<< Figure 33-1 appears here in original text >> Figure 33-1. UFO: Distance of observer versus estimated diameter, for UFO's which are lower than tree height. overzealous individuals who are trying to eliminate all data due to known natural phenomena). In addition, those data, which do appear to be valid, exhibit an excessive amount of variety relative to the statistical samples which are available. This has led to very clumsy classification systems, which in turn provide quite unfertile ground for formulation of hypothesis. One hypothesis which looked promising for a time was that of ORTHOTENY (i.e., UFO sightings fall on "great circle" routes). At first, plots of sightings seemed to verify the concept of orthoteny but recent use of computers has revealed that even random numbers yield "great circle" plots as neatly as do UFO sightings. There is one solid advance that has been made though. Jacques and Janine Vallee have taken a particular type of UFO - namely those that are lower than tree-top level when sighted - and plotted the UFO's estimated diameter versus the estimated distance from the observer. The result yields an average diameter of 5 meters with a very characteristic drop for short viewing distances, and rise for long viewing distances. This behavior at the extremes of the curve is well known to astronomers and psychologists as the "moon illusion." The illusion only occurs when the object being viewed is a real, physical object. Because this implies that the observers have viewed a real object, it permits us to accept also their statement that these particular UFO's had a rotational axis of symmetry. 464 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Another, less solid, advance made by the Vallee's was their plotting of the total number of sightings per week versus the date. They did this for the time span from 1947 to 1962, and then attempted to match the peaks of the curve (every 2 years 2 months) to the times of Earth-Mars conjunction (every 2 years 1.4 months). The match was very good between 1950 and 1956 but was poor outside those limits. Also, the peaks were not only at the times of Earth- Mars conjunction but also roughly at the first harmonic (very loosely, every 13 months). This raises the question why should UFO's only visit Earth when Mars is in conjunction and when it is on the opposite side of the sun. Obviously, the conjunction periodicity of Mars is not the final answer. As it happens, there is an interesting possibility to consider. Suppose Jupiter's conjunctions were used; they are every 13.1 months. That would satisfy the observed periods nicely, except for every even data peak being of different magnitude from every odd data peak. Perhaps a combination of Martian, Jovian, and Saturnian (and even other planetary) conjunctions will be necessary to match the frequency plot... if it can be matched (Figure 33-2). <<<< Figure 33-2 appears here in original text >> Figure 33-2. Cycles of activity, mathematically corrected for long term "Strong Trends". which are lower than tree height. 465 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Further data correlation is quite difficult. There are a large number of different saucer shapes but this may mean little. For example, look at the number of different types of aircraft which are in use in the U.S. Air Force alone. It is obvious that intensive scientific study is needed in this area; no such study has yet been undertaken at the necessary levels of intensity and support. One thing that must be guarded against in any such study is the trap of implicitly assuming that our knowledge of Physics (or any other branch of science) is complete. An example of one such trap is selecting a group of physical laws which we now accept as valid, and assume that they will never be superseded. Five such laws might be: 1) Every action must have an opposite and equal reaction. 2) Every particle in the universe attracts every other particle with a force proportional to the product of the masses and inversely as the square of the distance. 3) Energy, mass and momentum are conserved. 4) No material body can have a speed as great as c, the speed of light in free space. 5) The maximum energy, E, which can be obtained from a body at rest is E=mc2, where m is the rest mass of the body. Laws numbered 1 and 3 seem fairly safe, but let us hesitate and take another look. Actually, law number 3 is only valid (now) from a relativistic viewpoint; and for that matter so are laws 4 and 5. But relativity completely revised these physical concepts after 1915, before then Newtonian mechanics were supreme. We should also note that general relativity has not yet been verified. Thus we have the peculiar situation of five laws which appear to deny the possibility of intelligent alien control of UFO's, yet three of the laws are recent in concept and may not even be valid. Also, law number 2 has not yet been tested under conditions of large relative speeds or accelerations. We should not deny the possibility of alien control of UFO's on the basis of preconceived notions not established as related or relevant to the UFO's. 33.6 CONCLUSION From available information, the UFO phenomenon appears to have been global in nature for almost 50,000 years. The majority of known witnesses have been reliable people who have seen easily-explained natural phenomena, and there appears to be no overall positive correlation with population density. The entire phenomenon could be psychological in nature but that is quite doubtful. However, psychological factors probably do enter the data picture as "noise." The phenomenon could also be entirely due to known and unknown phenomena (with some psychological "noise" added in) but that too is questionable in view of some of the available data. This leaves us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet, or at least of alien controlled UFO's. However, the data are not well correlated, and 466 ----------------------------------------------------------------- what questionable data there are suggest the existence of at least three and maybe four different groups of aliens (possibly at different stages of development). This too is difficult to accept. It implies the existence of intelligent life on a majority of the planets in our solar system, or a surprisingly strong interest in Earth by members of other solar systems. A solution to the UFO problem may be obtained by the long and diligent effort of a large group of well financed and competent scientists, unfortunately there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be made. However, even if such an effort were made, there is no guarantee of success because of the isolated and sporadic nature of the sightings. Also, there may be nothing to find, and that would mean a long search with no proof at the end. The best thing to do is to keep an open and skeptical mind, and not take an extreme position on any side of the question. REFERENCES 33-1. Davison, L. Flying saucers: AN Analysis of the Air Force Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14. (Third Edition) Ramsey, New Jersey: Ramsey-Wallace Corp., July 1966 33-2. Edwards, F. Flying Saucers - Serious Business. New York: Bantam Press, 1966 33-3. Fuller, J. "Flying Saucer Fiasco" Look. 14 May 1968, 58. 33-4. ______. The Interrupted Journey, New York: Dial Press, 1966. 33-5. Hall, R. (editor). The UFO Evidence. WAshington, D.C.: National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, May, 1964. 33-6. Jung, C. Flying Saucers; A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies. Translated by R.F. Hull. New York: Harcourt, Brace and Company, 1959. 33-7. Kehoe, D. The Flying Saucer Conspircay. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1955. 33-8. ____. Flying Saucers: Top Secret. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1960. 33-9. Lorenzen, C. The Great Flying Saucer Hoax. New York: William Frederick Press, 1962. 33-10. Markowitz, W. "The Physics and Metaphysics of Unidentified Flying Objects," Science. 15 September 1967, 1274. 33-11. Menzel, D. and L. Boyd. The World of Flying Saucers: A Scientific Examination of a Major Myth of the Space Age. Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1963. 33-12. Michel, A. Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery. New York: Criterion Books, 1958. 467 33-13. Ruppelt, E. The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects. Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1956. 33-14. Tacker, L. Flying Saucers and the U.S. Air Force. Princeton, New Jersey: D. Van Nostrand, 1960. 33-15. Terry, D. "No Swamp Gas for Him, Thank You," St. Louis Dispatch, 2 June 1966, 4F. 33-16. Vallee, J. Anatomy of a Phenomenon: Unidentified Objects in Space - A Scientific Appraisal. Chicago: Henry Regenry, 1965. 33-17. Vallee, J. and J. Vallee. Flying Saucers a Challenge to Science. New York: Henry Regenry, 1966. 33-18. Whitney, D. Flying Saucers. New York: Cowles Communiactions, 1967. 468 ================================================================= (Chapter 33 of "Introductory Space Science" Physics 370 Fall Quarter 1970) 33.1 Introduction In this text, an attempt has been made to discuss all observable phenomena from the surface of the sun to the surface of the planets, particularly the planet Earth. It must be admitted, however, that some phenomena have been overlooked and that others are not presently explainable. In this latter category we find "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena." This is a very broad, all-inclusive subject since the "unidentified" depends on the experience and education of the observer--to an aborigine, an airplane may be "unidentified" while to the meteorologist even such rare phenomena as thousands of reports of "unidentified aerial phenomena" in the past quarter century and a number of these reports are still listed as "unidentifiable." This may be due to poor reporting, incomplete investigation, or to deficiencies in our understanding of the atmosphere and the universe at large. The possibility that our scientific knowledge could be increased by study of these phenomena has led several organizations to explore the subject further. The popular literature uses the more restrictive term "Unidentified Flying Objects" instead of the general "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena." Although there is insufficient evidence that the phenomena are real physical "objects" or indeed that they are "flying", we will adopt the popular terminology to avoid confusion. Consequently we will define an "Unidentified Flying Object" (UFO) as any reported aerial phenomenon or object which is unknown or appears out of the ordinary to the observer. While there are purported UFO reports dating from ancient times, the subject of UFOs really was thrust upon the American public shortly after WorLd War II when Kenneth Arnold on 24 June 1947 reported seeing nine "saucerlike" objects near Mount Rainier. This was the first in a series of UFO reports which has continued to the present. The newly organized U.S. Air Force was assigned the mission of determining if the UFOs represented a threat to the national security. The investigation was conducted under Project Sign, later Project Grudge, and finally Project Blue Book which ended on 17 December 1969. Because of a rash of UFO reports in 1952 and fears that military communications channels could be clogged by enemy instigated UFO reports, a spacial scientific panel chaired by the late Dr. H, P. Robertson was established under government sponsorship in January 1953 to study the UFO problem. The panel concluded that there was no evidence in the available data that UFOs were a threat to national security. These scientists recommended that a campaign be conducted to produce better public understanding of the situation and also to remove the aura of mystery surrounding the subject. This latter goal has not yet been completely achieved. FALL SEMESTER 1970 After this, Project Blue Book continued to receive and evaluate UFO reports, but the conclusions reached were not always accepted by "UFO-logists" and the general public. The Air Force was often accused of trying to cover up the UFO problem and of withholding information allegedly indi-cating that UFOs are extraterrestrial. Consequently, a panel headed by Dr. Brian O'Brien was empowered to review Project Blue Book in 1966. While this commission reaffirmed that there was no apparent security threat posed by the existence of unexplained UFO reports, it suggested that a detailed study of some of the reports might produce something of scientific value. The commission recommended that a few selected universities be engaged to provide scientific teams for prompt investigation of selected UFO sightings. Consequently, in 1966, the U.S. Air Force sponsored a $500,000 investigation led by Dr. Edward U. Condon of the University of Colorado to make a scientific investigation of UFOs, not necessarily to identify UFOs but only to determine if there is scientific merit in the study of them. 33.2 Hypotheses to Explain UFOs In any scientific investigation, we establish an hypothesis or hypotheses, collect data, analyze the data in light of our hypotheses and then refute or confirm our hypotheses or conclude that we have insufficient data to do either. Approximately 6% of the UFO reports collected by Project Blue Book are officially listed as "unexplained." If we propose to "explain" these remaining cases we must first set up a list of possible explanations. There is always the danger in this procedure that the true explanation for a particular event is not contained in the given set of a priori hypo-theses. With this note of caution before us, we adopt a set of hypotheses proposed by Dr. James McDonald of the University of Arizona: 1. Hoaxes, fabrications, and frauds. 2. Hallucinations, mass hysteria, rumor phenomena. 3. Advanced terrestrial technologies. 4. Lay misinterpretations of well understood physical phenomena. 5. Poorly understood physical phenomena. 6. Poorly understood psychological phenomena. 7. Extraterrestrial visitation. 8. Messengers of salvation and occult truth. Let us examine each of these in light of the data collected over the past twenty-plus years. 2 1. Hoaxes, fabrications, and frauds. There is no question that some UFO reports are hoaxes, fabrications, and frauds perpetrated by persons playing pranks with candles in plastic cleaning bags, persons faking photographs, persons seeking notoriety or recognition, and practical jokers. The UFO literature is replete with examples of all types. However, confirmed hoaxes are only a small percentage of the total number of UFO reports, Most reports are by reliable witnesses and show no evidence of fabrication or fraud. 2. Hallucinations, mass hysteria, rumor phenomena. There is evidence that UFO reports occur in waves and that a rash of sightings in a localized area may be due to increased public sensitivity to an initial report, Some reports received at these times may indeed be inspired by the increased attention to UFOs and not true sightings at all. However, the large number of multi- observer reports from independent observers, and reports from military personnel, airline pilots, policemen, scientists and other qualified witnesses makes it unlikely that many UFO reports are the results of hallu-cinations, mass hysteria, and rumor phenomena. Psychologists and sociologists are unable to estimate what portion of UFO reports may be due to such causes but analysis of the credentials of witnesses in most reports would indicate that the number must be small. 3. Advanced terrestrial technologies (e.g. test vehicles, satellites, re- entry phenomena, secret weapons). The noted space scientist Arthur C. Clarke has observed that any sufficiently advanced technology will appear indistinguishable from magic. Thus advanced terrestrial technologies are certainly the cause of some reports. The reported characteristics of UFOs do not appear to have changed markedly over the years while man has made great technological progress. Thus while some current UFO reports may be attributable to space vehicle re-entries or satellite launches, the reports in the forties and early fifties cannot be attributed to these causes. Similarly, advanced weapon systems in the development and test stages (secret weapons) now would give rise to a different type of UFO report from those of earlier eras. The variety and world-wide distribution of UFO reports make it unlikely that the reports are due to sightings of products of an advanced terrestrial technology. 4. Lay misinterpretations of well-understood physical phenomena (e.g. meteorological, astronomical, optical). From our definition of UFOs it is obvious that a large number of reports will fall in this category. Misidentification of aircraft landing lights, blinking and flashing lights during aerial refueling operations, weather balloons, meteors, movements of the planets Venus and Jupiter, searchlight reflections on low cloud ceilings and lens flares in photographs are a few possibilities. The reader can undoubtedly suggest others and find still more in the UFO literature. In his article, "The Physics and Metaphysics of Unidentified Flying Object Dr. William Markowitz discusses the UFO problem in light of the currently accepted physical laws. In particular, he considers the following five basic laws: 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- a. Every action must have an equal and opposite reaction. b. Every particle in the universe attracts every other particle with a force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely as the square of the distance between them. c. Momentum and mass-energy are conserved. d. No material body can travel at c, the speed of light in free space. e. The maximum energy which can be obtained from a body at rest is governed by Einstein's famous equation, E = mc2 To date these laws have enabled physicists to predict and control many phenomena for practical purposes. They can also be valuable in analyzing UFO reports. The details in most UFO reports do not cause any conflict with these laws and lead us to conclude that UFOs may well just be misidentified ordinary phenomena. However, some reports seem at variance with one or more of these laws, leading us to question either the reliability of the UFO reports or the reliability of our physical laws. Since our physical laws are more firmly established both in theory and by experiment, the validity of the physical law is usually a more acceptable alternative to the scientist. We must realize, however, that any physical law may be subject to change with the discovery of new evidence. 5. Poorly understood physical phenomena (e.g. rare atmospheric electrical effects, cloud phenomena, plasmas of natural or technological origin). Attempting to explain UFO reports by some poorly understood phenomenon is risky at best, and probably is impossible until the phenomenon is better understood. Lenticular clouds as explanations for certain UFO reports may be on firm grounds, but attempts to explain UFOs in terms of mirages, ball lightning (a sphere-shaped plasma blob usually associated with electrical storms), atmospheric inversion layers, or anomalous propa-gation of radar signals are much less tenable. Some UFO reports may be explainable by these phenomena, but it is impossible to make positive identifications based on our present limited understanding of the phenomena. Consequently, all such explanations should be considered only tentative. There may be still other atmospheric phenomena which are observed so rarely that they remain uninvestigated and unnamed. 6. Poorly understood psychological phenomena. Psychologists are the first to admit that there are many aspects of psychic phenomena that have not been adequately explored. Few data are available to determine how these phenomena may relate to the UFO problem, but we must at least allow for the possibility that there may be some effects. 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 7. Extraterrestrial visitation. Dr. Condon states in the summary of Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects that convincing and unequivocal evidence of extraterrestrial visitation would be the greatest single scientific discovery in the history of mankind. While this may be a slight exaggeration, it at least points out why this hypothesis adds so much excitement and controversy to the UFO problem. Despite numerous UFO reports concerning purported space vehicles and alien visitors, there remains doubt as to the veracity of these reports. Such reports do, however, contain a number of strange elements that are verifiable. One would prefer hard evidence in the form of a tail fin, a jettisoned propulsion unit, a crashed UFO, several good photographs, etc. Such physical evidence does not seem to exist, despite stories to the contrary. Several scientists have concluded that the priori probability of extraterrestrial visitation appears to be exceedingly low in terms of present scientific knowledge. Although no conclusive proof as to the validity of this hypothesis can be drawn from the evidence at hand, a panel of the National Academy of Sciences has concluded that on the basis of present knowledge, the least Likely explanation of UFOs is the hypothesis of extraterrestrial visitations by intelligent beings. 8. Messengers of salvation and occult truth. Certain cults have adopted the belief that the mission of UFOs is spiritual and that all Physical efforts to determine the nature of UFOs must necessarily fail. While such may be the case, evidence to support it is clearly lacking. Further discussion of this hypothesis is beyond the scope of this text. 33.3 Conclusion Having presented the arguments for each of the hypotheses, possible con- clusions are now considered. It is apparent that no single hypothesis can account for all UFO reports. Hypotheses 1, 2, 3, and 4 are obviously valid and, as a group, account for a large number of UFO reports. However, the evidence is insufficient to conclude that all UFO reports can be attributed to these causes. Hypothesis 8 is unlikely to yield to any form of scientific analysis, so we eliminate it from further consideration. If hypotheses 5, 6, and 7 are scientifically the most interesting since they offer the possibility of new knowledge about ourselves and our environment. As indicated above, hypotheses 5 and 6 require additional research on poorly understood phenomena before conclusions can be reached as to their bearing on the UFO problem. At this time, there appears to be insufficient evidence available to either confirm or refute hypothesis 7. One additional note of caution must be included at this point. In most of this chapter, we have discussed primarily the scientific implications of the UFO question. However, the Lorenzens contend that UFOs are primarily an emotional problem, secondly a political problem, and only incidentally, a scientific problem. They feel that when the emotional and political problems have been resolved, the entire UFO problem will yield to scientific investigation. 5 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Is such scientific investigation likely to be conducted? At least one major scientific study has been made. Dr. Condon and his University of Colorado Project ended their Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects in late 1968 with the general conclusion that nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past two decades that has added to scientific know-ledge and that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced. This conclusion and the entire report were endorsed by a select panel from the National Academy of Sciences. Based on the conclusions of the Condon report and its own twenty-year UFO experience, the Air Force terminated Project Blue Book in December 1969 with this final statement, "As a result of investigating UFO reports since 1948, the conclusions of Project Blue Book are (1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security; (2) there has been no evidence submitted or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present-day scientific knowledge; and (3) there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' are extraterrestrial vehicles." Consequently there is presently no official government agency investigating UFO reports. Dr. McDonald and several private UFO investigative agencies have decried alleged inadequacies of the Condon report and Project Blue Book and urge that the entire subject be re-investigated. Specifically, Project Blue Book, during its existence, was criticized for superficial investigation of UFO reports, low level of scientific competence among its personnel, and unreasonable explanations concerning specific UFO reports. Criticisms of the Condor report include the contention that the conclusions reached are not supported by the bulk of the evidence in the report itself and that the firing of two staff members for "incompetence" before the completion of the final report raises questions concerning the objectivity and completeness of the study. While some of the criticism may possibly be justified, it is unlikely that any new official scientific studies will be forthcoming, primarily because the conclusions of the Condon report have been so widely accepted. The UFO problem must now compete on its scientific merit with all the other pressing scientific problems facing mankind. To receive attention from scientists and the requisite economic support, the potential rewards from UFO research must be shown to be commensurate with the resources expended. Although the Condon committee cautioned that nothing worthwhile was likely to result from such research, it suggested that all of the agencies of the federal government and private foundations should be willing to consider UFO research proposals along with the others submitted to them on an open minded, unprejudiced basis. 6 --------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCES 1. Air Force Regulation 80-i7, Unidentified Flying Objects, 19 Sept 66, (Rescinded 25 March 1970), 2. Binder, Otto , What We Really Know About Flying Saucers, Greenwich, Conn: Fawcett Publications, 1967, 3. Condon, Edward U., Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects, New York: Bantam Rooks, 1967. 4. Lorenzen, Carol and Jim, UFO's-The W@ole Story. New York: Signet Books, 1969. 5. Markowitz, William, "The Physics and Metaphysics of Unidentified Flying Objects," Science, Vol. 157 pp. 1274-1279, 15 Sept 67. i 6. McDonald, James E., Unidentified Flying Objects-Greatcst Scientific Problem of Our Times., Pittsburgh: Pittsburgh Subcommittee, NICAP, 1967. 7. McDonald, James E., "UFO's--An International Scientific Problem," speech presented 12 Mar 68 at the Canadian Aeronautics and Space Institute, Astronautics Symposium, Montreal, Canada. 8. OASD(PA) News Release No. 1077-69, Project "Blue Book" Terminated. 9. Saunders, D.R. and R.R. Harkins, UFO's? Yes, Where the Condon Committee Went Wrong, New York: Signet Books, 1968. ** End of article ** * SLMR 2.1a * =-=-=-=-=-=> Fido UFO Echo Moderator <<=-=-=-=-=-= --- GEcho 1.00 Origin: Land of Imagica - Deltona Florida - (407)860-6257 - (1:3618/24) <<<<<<>>>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Big Hanger From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:49:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:44:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 6/25/97 1:31 PM: > Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:03 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Big Hanger > I think you need to look for more than just a dang big > hanger. Not only would you need a BIG place to store a mile > wide aircraft, but you's have to BUILD that big sucker in the > first place. > As far as I know, our capabilites to build big aircraft are > really strained when it comes to commercial airliners like > 747s and 777s and the big military transport planes, and they are > not even a significant fraction of this size. I simply do not > think the USA, Russia, or any other country on this planet > has the capability to build something this big. Not only that, but think of the structural problems. The Starlifter, B52, and B47 all have somewhat saggy wings (I think the B-47 had to actually have some sort of casters on the wingtips). These aircraft aren't even close to a mile long wingspan. While the surface area of such a wing would be immense, it is hard to imagine that its strength to weight ratio could handle much manuvering, and any flexing of the wing would seem to lead inevitably to some sort of catastrophic collapse. Also, large amounts of thrust would be needed to keep it aloft, unless it were filled or partly filled with a lighter than air gas, but that would make it less manuverable and more responsive to winds. I imagine that if large amounts of thrust were used, there would be correspondingly large amounts of sound. NASA has an aircraft which is a large plastic covered wing (no, not triangular) which can be seen at http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/PhotoServer/ under the Pathfinder link. The aircraft is a solar powered autonomous drone which is used to loiter in areas of interest for reconnaisance purposes. Scaling this up to a mile across would be hard to imagine, but it is fairly large and quiet. Looking at the Arizona sightings in comparison to similar sightings such as the Lubbock Lights or the Hudson "boomerang", we see that there is a common factor of portions of the structure moving, detaching, or engaging in rendezvous. The only part of the pattern which doesn't seem to fit is the apparent absence of high speed manuvers, which were present in both the Lubbock and Hudson cases. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Big Hanger - Mystery Solved! From: meccam@205.252.116.10 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:53:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:32:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger - Mystery Solved! > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > While the surface area of such a wing would be immense, it is hard > to imagine that its strength to weight ratio could handle much > manuvering, and any flexing of the wing would seem to lead > inevitably to some sort of catastrophic collapse. Also, large > amounts of thrust would be needed to keep it aloft, unless it were > filled or partly filled with a lighter than air gas, but that would > make it less manuverable and more responsive to winds. Aha! That's the secret, right there. The object was a very large triangular blimp, don't you see??? Equipped with the new and improved experimental magnetic propulsion device, sporting large extremely bright moveable lights to prevent onlookers from reaching a conclusion about its shape, piloted by $6,000,000 robot dummies with realistic skin texture, facial features, fully-featured movment, an animal scent, and body fluids, just in case it crashed & the tiresome populace brought up that alien bit again. Motive - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em - AF spent over $2,000,000,000 to create some media quality sightings. The existence of this US-engineered craft and its pilots will be revealed dramatically at the Roswell event, taking the wind out of UFO-mania sails (and sales) forever. My sources are high up, way high up, so don't even ask or I'll have to kill you. Send $500 for a complete report complete with videos of dummy construction. Step right up, be the first one on your block to learn the truth about the Phoenix sightings! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Are Aliens Friendly? From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:03:09 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:34:40 -0400 Subject: Are Aliens Friendly? I was amazed to read in a recent posting following the Big Hangar thread that there are people out there who still think that the aliens are friendly. Can anyone explain to me how abductions are the acts of friendly entities? Does a friend conduct unwanted tests that are frightening, intrusive and painful and then attempt to conceal these actions by tampering with the victim's mind? Does a friend continue this treatment over years and possibly generations? Can anyone explain to me how terrorizing motorists at night on lonely country roads can be the action of friendly entities? Since when did we accept as friendly the assaults on innocent people by aliens (if you don't think this happens look at what has happened in Europe and here in Australia in the past as well as what is currently happening in South America. People who still believe that the aliens are friendly cannot hide behind the excuse that we are dealing with a culture that is entirely alien to ours. Lets face it people, we have been under observation for centuries and by now our observers, if that is what they are really here for, would have no doubt on the most effective way to approach us. I suggest that what they are doing is not because they want to be friendly for their actions are so obviously not friendly. I don't have any idea on why they are here but it does not involve friendship. In fact they have made it plain that they don't need or require our friendship. They are powerful enough to do what they damn well please and they do it with impunity. I know that there are claims that aliens have healed people and others who have come away from encounters with warm fuzzy feelings but I suggest that this, combined with the fact that there has still been no overt contact, just strengthens my claim that they are here for their purposes and what we humans want or think is of no consequence. In fact the relationship between aliens and humans reminds me of our relationship with our pets. So what should we do? I believe a politician put it very succinctly when he said something similar to "Talk softly and carry a big stick." If the aliens ever do condescend to openly talk to us we should talk back very politely but carry the biggest stick we can find - and hope it's big enough. Stuart
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Research balloons were tagged From: yechiel A. Mann <Yam@NetVision.Net.Il> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 12:02:35 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Research balloons were tagged >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:23:14 GMT >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Research balloons were tagged >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net <snip> >The dummies did come with instructions. They said >"Beat me over my head with your rifle butt, steal my >personal communicator, let me die, then cut me up and >make a video of it and give it to that Santilli guy. >Just remember to remove my black contact lenses." <g> And you forgot - "And bring four baby-size coffins so you can bury me in them"....which makes me wonder, where the heck were the ET bodies buried? -yechiel. UFO/ET related IRC channel at #ETS on DALnet - details at the Webpage, at (watch the Caps!) Http://www.GeoCities.Com/Area51/Zone/6682 - VISIT OFTEN!! It's updated with all the channel news! Lately Updated with new Links!!! And MJ-12 Files!!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Marketing Aliens and UFOs From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:44:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Marketing Aliens and UFOs --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Marketing Aliens and UFOs Date: 97-06-26 04:02:09 EDT From: AOL News By MARTHA MENDOZA ROSWELL, N.M. (AP) - Inside a trailer home, Terri Gilmore is cramming hypo-allergenic fluff into an alien head. Downtown, the Legal Tender country band is hoping someone will buy their CD - ``Johnny Roped a UFO.'' Marketing aliens and UFOs is becoming a way of life in this southeastern New Mexico community, where locals began cashing in on the craze about three years ago. Last year, locals brought in about $5 million in alien dollars, and this year they're planning to do even better. Roswell's marketing efforts will peak next week, when the community hosts the 50th anniversary of an alleged UFO crash northwest of town. ``Anyone within 1,000 miles with a UFO T-shirt is going to come to Roswell and try to sell it,'' said Stan Crosby, an oil and gas developer who is coordinating the festival. Wes Miller, a Jaycee member coordinating vending booths at the Roswell Convention and Civic Center, said that last month all 107 spaces had been rented - for $150 each - and others were taking spots on a waiting list. The chamber of commerce said all 1,000 hotel rooms in town were reserved for the anniversary week back in February. Around town, it's hard to find a store that isn't selling the phenomena - there's Alien Star coffee, UFO cookies, Out Of This World sandwiches and mock spaceship crashes. Romero's Tattoos even advertises special discounts for aliens. Gilmore's alien dolls sell fast downtown at Randhi Hesse's Star Child gift shop, along with T-shirts, mugs, earrings, ties and just about anything you can paint two big eyes on. ``People are attracted to this stuff, as a curiosity, the unknown,'' Hesse said. ``Very rarely do I get what I call the loonies. Maybe one out of 500 is over the edge. The rest just want to buy something. We try to please.'' Down the street at the Quilt Talk fabric store, Michelle Watts is showing off her newest material - silk-screened silver aliens, UFOs and crash site maps on black cloth. ``There's not anything else like this in the world. Wouldn't it make a gorgeous quilt?'' she said. Like most of the alien entrepreneurs, Watts isn't sure if a UFO actually did crash near Roswell. ``Does it even matter?'' she asked. AP-NY-06-26-97 0357EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Pregnancy resulting from alien abduction? From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:22:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:47:24 -0400 Subject: Pregnancy resulting from alien abduction? If anyone is able to help Peter Arrhenius can they send the reply direct to him please and not via the mailing list. ----- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:17:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Arrhenius <arrhenius@tvspartacus.a.se> Subject: Pregnancy resulting from alien abduction? To: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Does anyone know any sites that share information on people that claim they have become pregnant during abduction? Warm thanks, and best of luck with Your work Peter Arrhenius (arrhenius@tvspartacus.a.se) John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Preview of Roswell UFO exhibit From: yogi@iadfw.net [Bill Hamilton] Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:37:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:50:21 -0400 Subject: Preview of Roswell UFO exhibit Hello UpDaters, With all the hoopla being generated by the big party in Roswell next weekend I thought some of you might want a short preview of what a local effects company has cooked up. It was broadcast by a local news station here in Dallas, Texas. I have created a RealVideo file and put it up for your enjoyment. If you have the RealPlayerPlus you can see this at http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/roswell_exhibit.ram It's my first try at RealVideo, so don't expect too much. The file should stream for you so there shouldn't be any long download delays. Let me know if it works for you. Regards, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 At the Movies: Aliens among us From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:54:34 -0400 Subject: At the Movies: Aliens among us --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: At the Movies: Aliens among us Date: 97-06-26 12:42:04 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By MATT CRENSON ``Men in Black'' is a movie about a pair of guys in black suits who go around enforcing a dubious moral code in a surreal world inhabited by goofy, supernatural characters. That's right - ``Pulp Fiction'' meets ``Ghostbusters.'' At least it's better than ``Ghostbusters.'' The premise behind ``Men in Black,'' lifted from the Malibu comic series of the same name by Lowell Cunningham, is that Earth, Home Sweet Home to 6 billion innocents, is also inhabited by 1,500 aliens from various parts of the universe. Most of them are here for their own protection, you see. Deposed dictators in exile, expatriate life forms without a planet, that sort of thing. Sort of like ``Casablanca'' without the Nazis, Man-in-Black Tommy Lee Jones explains. His job: Keep the freaks in line. Naturally that involves a lot of chases, explosions, firearms - the usual stuff. If only someone in Hollywood - someone with really cool sunglasses and one of those new Jaguar convertibles - would wake up and say, ``Enough already with the heavily armed, well-dressed, wisecracking-hitmen buddy movies.'' Yeah, right. Director Barry Sonnenfeld manages to insert his signature style between the action scenes, blending the movie's premise with the bizarre, post-industrial reality we all spend our days struggling to understand. In one of its subtler gags, it posits that the Jetsons-style World's Fair of 1964 and '65 was held so that nobody would notice that giant flying saucers had landed in New York. Why else would they have had it in Queens? And if aliens really did live among us, it would explain a lot of other things, too: Dennis Rodman. Microwave ovens. Velcro. The release of ``Men in Black'' happens to coincide, roughly, with the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident, the grandpappy of all modern flying-saucer conspiracy tales. In July 1947, something fell to Earth on a ranch outside Roswell, N.M., giving birth to rumors that an alien spaceship had crash-landed. To this day, the government swears it was a piece of a weather balloon. UFO enthusiasts insist much more emphatically that it was a flying saucer, and that it and the corpses of its inhabitants were spirited away to an Air Force base in Ohio where they are studied to this day by secret government scientists intent on learning the technological secrets of a more advanced civilization. ``Men in Black'' offers insight into why some people believe such stuff. In a world so full of such bizarre and incomprehensible things as MTV and Cher, it's only natural that some people would find comfort in the belief that humans aren't entirely responsible. Naturally, most of ``Men in Black's'' action happens in New York, a city of immigrants and the place where you'd be least likely to notice a few thousand aliens running around. It reminds you what America is all about - taking in the weird with open arms. Will Smith is one of New York's Finest, recruited into this ultrasecret federal alien protection program apparently for his ability to deliver one-liners and mouth off. He's funny, cool, hip and looks very good in a black suit and sunglasses. And he's quite smitten with Laurel Weaver (Linda Fiorentino), winner of the sexiest medical examiner in New York City award. ``I hate the living,'' she says. Of all the mere mortals Smith and Jones (dumb luck or casting brilliance?) encounter, Laurel is the one who comes closest to figuring out what's going on. But every time she gets close, Jones stuns her with the Neuralyzer, a memory-erasing device licensed to the Men in Black by some advanced culture. ``This is an alien and you guys are from some secret government agency that's trying to keep it a secret,'' Fiorentino says. Bzzzt! ``Men in Black'' is fun. It's almost satire. But after it ends, audiences are bound to feel like they too have been zapped with a Neuralyzer. Bzzzt! ``Men in Black'' is produced by Walter F. Parkes and Laurie MacDonald. It is rated PG-13. Motion Picture Association of America rating definitions: G - General audiences. All ages admitted. PG - Parental guidance suggested. Some material may not be suitable for children. PG-13 - Special parental guidance strongly suggested for children under 13. Some material may be inappropriate for young children. R - Restricted. Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian. NC-17 - No one under 17 admitted. End Adv for Release Anytime AP-NY-06-26-97 1202EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.<FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3> </I></PRE></HTML> To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Order Roswell 'Report' From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:36:36 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:56:57 -0400 Subject: Order Roswell 'Report' Dear List: Here's the latest information I have on the new Roswell report, for anyone interested in seeing for themselves. The price is apparently only $18, which includes regular shipping and handling, as opposed to the previously reported $52. The item you want is "The Roswell Report: Case Closed." The stock number is 008-070-00719-3. "This 250-page book," quoting from the press release, "is packed with 125 pages of narrative, 500 endnotes and sidebars, three appendices, an index, and is enhanced by many black and white photos." To order by phone: (202) 512-1800, 9-4 EST. To order by fax: (202) 512-2250 (24hrs) Master Card or Visa accepted. These are the ordering numbers for the Government Printing Office. The earlier 996-page "The Roswell Report: Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert" is still available for $52. Its stock number is 008-070-00697-9. You must use the stock number when ordering. I haven't read the new report myself, but the New York Times had a very good page of coverage in its Wednesday, June 25 edition by that old UFO "bugbear" William J. Broad. Stanton Friedman was quoted extensively in opposition. Judging only from that and having watched 30 minutes of the Pentagon press conference on CNN, it still looks like a no-win situation to me as far as the Air Force is concerned. Putting aside the kneejerk emotionalism of a "Cosmic Watergate" for a moment, I think the AF has made a serious mistake by taking everything said about Roswell by everyone over the years and trying to find an "explanation" for same. This is understandable in some ways. The AF would have nothing to gain and everything to lose, in other words, were they simply to come out and call, oh, say, Jim Ragsdale and Gerald Anderson shameless self-promoters and prevaricators in an apparently "official" report. Similarly, the Hoffmannesque tales told by Kaufmann and Dennis, continue to leak credibility. Apparently, the report takes their stories at face-value, and then tries to find some real-world incident that might conceivably have accounted for them, when there is growing evidence that their credence level is approaching zero. In the July Popular Mechanics, for example, Kaufmann is quoted as claiming that the "tiles" on the crashed craft were there to prevent it from being detected by radar. Yet in the very next paragraph he's spinning the same old story: the UFO was supposedly tracked by radar for several days, and he was the man on duty, Johnny on the spot, which the object crashed, lighting up his entire radar screen. Not content with that "minor" role, Kaufmann was also the self-alleged man who woke both Blanchard and Marcel from their slumbers, led the recovery in the middle of the night in a vast, open desert directly to the crash site, and participated in the recovery of the crashed vehicle and alien cadavers. Funny that Marcel, in the many interviews conducted before his death, never once mentioned bodies and a second crash site, is it not? But Kaufmann is hardly the only one to put Marcel where he never was, in circumstances he never experienced or related. Philip Corso is now doing the same thing. So hop on the unread Roswell report if you must, as many of you, no doubt, must. The truth of the matter, though, is that if we had all hopped as hard with both feet on some of the so-called "eyewitnesses" who have crawled out of the Roswell woodwork in recent years, we wouldn't have next week's upcoming circus to celebrate. And the Air Force wouldn't have to "account" for every Jim, Frank and Gerald in the country. But let the boys in Blue tell a few whoppers, and everyone gets on their indignant high horse. All the while accepting the obvious whoppers of the other side as *gospel fact still being covered up by a nefarious military.* Onward through the fog! PS: I just ordered my copy and the lady who took it said sales were brisk. So brisk, in fact, that you probably won't need the stock number after all. Have it handy just in case, though.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Big Hanger From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jun 97 17:16:20 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:04:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Hanger Jared wrote; >Storing an aircraft this big seems like a logistical nightmare. Not to mention building or flying it. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jun 97 17:16:22 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:05:19 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:00:32 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? John Wrote; >One of the things they test for are the levels of anaerobic bacteria. The >levels of these bacteria are an excellent way to measure if the soil has >been altered in some way. That's why I recommended the holes in the tops of >the jars. If you hermetically seal the samples the bacteria will begin to >die off and accurate measurements become impossible. They need to measure >the differences (if any) in the samples taken from outside and inside of >the affected area. Make sure to open the sandwich bags (not the lids!) at >least once every twenty-four hours for a few minutes (air exchange) and >then reseal them until you can get them to a lab. That, is best done ASAP. John, forgive me if this is wrong, but anaerobic bacteria don't require oxygen, are methanogens and disturbance in the soil will upset the balance of archeobacteria. James A Diss ---------------------- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. --------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 CSETI Congressional Briefing on TV tonight From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:07:45 -0400 Subject: CSETI Congressional Briefing on TV tonight From: A.J. Craddock <webmaster@cseti.org> Tonight (Thurs, June 26) "Strange Universe" is re-running their April program with the segment on CSETI's Congressional Briefing in Washington DC about the UFO/ETI/ARV coverup. The piece also features quotes from some of the Witnesses who testified. Check local listings. Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI http://www.cseti.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: Collin Powell From: ufo1@juno.com (Jack P Sargeant) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:56:45 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:11:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Collin Powell KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES! Charlotte, NC 1:379/12 >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:20:15 -0600 >From: dan syes <dsyes@micron.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Collin Powell >List, > The other day at work, a friend of mine mentioned > the following: He was listening to the radio on a local rock >station. During one of the breaks, the station decided to take >calls on opinions of the sightings that the news finally caught >up with over the sightings in Phoniex. Apparently, a person >called in claiming to be Collin Powell's former driver back in >the 80's. This person stated that one evening while driving the >General around in Germany, they were involved in a sighting. >...I don't know the whole details, but it seemed typical. Bright >lights, vehical died, that sort of stuff. Anyhow, General Powell >told the driver to keep his mouth shut, and the sighting had >never happened. >The radio station my friend was listening to is a re-broadcast >of a station out of somewhere in Southern California. Anyone >else by chance hear anything about this???? >Dan Hello Dan, It's understandable why a well known personality would have that wish. The news would disrupt the daily activities of his job, and his bosses would also frown on a public announcement about UFOs. The media would be hounding him for information, and skeptics would kid him about being one of us "crazys." That wouldn't fall into the normal govt. cover-up frame in my opinion. ...More of a personal thing, eh? Jack
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 26 Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:44:21 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:12:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >Date: 25 Jun 97 09:38:11 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The 'Hockey Pucks' have landed? >>If all you find are Marlboro butts, roaches, empties, and boot >>prints,...then never mind! <VBG> >On the other hand, this may be evidence of "rubber crash dummies", >which are known to have bad habits and are prone to littering. ROTFLMAO!!! Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado - using a PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro v1.0b4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 Re: MTV Special From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:20:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:39:05 -0400 Subject: Re: MTV Special Monday June 23 10:52 AM EDT Company Press Release MTV News investigates extra-terrestrials Abducted! An MTV News Special Report debuts Tuesday, July 8 at 10:00 p.m. ET/PT NEW YORK--(ENTERTAINMENT WIRE)--June 23, 1997-- July 8 marks the 50th anniversary of the report of the UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. You've investigated their visits on the X-Files, you've watched them devour the planet in "Independence Day," and you've read about their nocturnal activities in the Enquirer. Hosted by Kurt Loder, "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" will examine the increasing interest in the paranormal in pop culture, featuring interviews with pop stars such as Marilyn Manson, Bill Paxton, and Will Smith and will highlight some famous alleged alien abductions in past history. "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" premiers on MTV on Tuesday, July 8th at 10:00 p.m. (ET/PT), the 50th anniversary of the report of the UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. The show begins with a portrait of the typical young "abductee," like Carrie, age 24, who believes she was brought aboard a space craft where she was accosted by "Men in Black," and Vogue who believes aliens brutalize him in abductions that occur between the tics of seconds. Through in-depth interviews with young abductees from different parts of the country, the viewer will hear first-hand accounts of their incredible experiences. MTV News will listen to their detailed stories, look at the physical and psychological evidence, and attempt to make sense of their bizarre experiences that transcend traditional Western thought. Abducted! also lends an ear to the skeptics, who will attempt to explain the unexplainable. MTV News visits a professor of neuroscience, Dr. Persinger at Laurentian University who has demonstrated the ability to artificially reproduce an abduction in a controlled laboratory setting. MTV News visits Dr. Persinger's laboratory and talks to professionals who have researched the phenomenon of implanted memories. Finally, MTV News will encounter a group of L.A. based musicians called "The Ark Alliance" who are using electronic music to lure aliens life forms down to their all night rave. MTV News will speak to these young people and hear why they are so confident about the aliens' imminent arrival. "Abducted!: An MTV News Special Report" is produced and directed by Jesse Ignjatovic. The associate producer is Jennifer Lee. The executive producers are Lauren Lazin and Dave Sirulnick. MTV Networks, a unit of Viacom Inc., owns and operates five cable television programming services -- MTV: Music Television, M2, VH1, Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite, and Nick at Nite's TV Land -- all of which are trademarks of MTV networks. Information about MTV and M2 is available on MTV Online, on America Online (Keyword: MTV) and the World Wide Web ( http://mtv.com ). Contact: MTV, New York Andrea Smith, Manager, Program Publicity 212/258-8768
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 Response to US Gov't Press Conference From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:42:38 -0400 Subject: Response to US Gov't Press Conference LOMBARD, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 24, 1997-- Response to U.S. Government Press Conference Concerning the Roswell Incident "It took the military 50 years to admit that something `similar' to bodies actually fell in the New Mexico desert near Roswell. "The truth may already be revealed, but the blatant weather balloon lie that started it and the tenacious grip the government kept on it has made it even more difficult for the person on the street to accept what the government tells us is now the truth ... again and again. "In 1994, the Air Force issued a report that claimed to be the `whole truth' about the Roswell story which they determined at that time to be the Mogul Array, a government project which crashed. That story seemed absurd since Jesse Marcel had not been able to identify it as weather balloons and until his death maintained that the metal was of an unusual nature. "Now, the military has come up with this new angle of `test dummies,' which is very interesting because it seems their story has been adapted to fit the myth of Roswell. They have never before admitted (and in fact denied) that bodies of any sort were a part of the incident. "Who is the `dummy?' Fortunately we are getting closer to the truth. Unfortunately it has taken 50 years." -0- The complete Roswell UFO Encyclopedia is published by MVP Media Group in Lombard. CONTACT: Serafin & Associates Jim Thompson, 312/943-1955 Tom Sales, 312/943-1955 KEYWORD: ILLINOIS NEW MEXICO INDUSTRY KEYWORD: GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING AEROSPACE/DEFENSE BW1543 JUN 24,1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 1 & 2 of From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:20:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:43:31 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 1 & 2 of This is the eighth of the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFOUpDates. This essay has been divided into three posts, each containing two parts of the essay. There are six parts in toto. There will be approximately 25 essays in all. Several of these essays were posted in the past in the alt.paranet.ufo USENET newsgroup. These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. Unfortunately the author is not presently available on the Internet. However, if you would like to correspond with the author I have arranged a temporary internet email address that I will use for forwarding the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: This essay will speak for itself and give one something to contemplate while the list is inactive and ebk is away at Roswell 97. Gary Alevy ----------------------------------------------------------- Big Money and UFOs (parts 1 & 2 of 6) UFOSearch Val Germann Columbia, Missouri UFO Investigation -- Financial Considerations -- 1 The public arrival of the Rockefellers and other large-money types into the UFO arena has opened a new and fascinating chapter in the saga of the unidentified flying object, whatever that is. For too long the importance of money, and those who have it, has been overlooked in considering the UFO. But I think it is safe to say that that era is now ending. Behind all of our institutions, behind even the government itself, are those who possess immense wealth. It has always been so, from the days of Rome to the British Crown to the 1770s when fifty-five men of wealth created this government. The foundation of American power is inheritance, mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and thus above the law. The family is the American vehicle for the acquisition, conservation and transferance of power -- from this generation to the next, theoretically forever. This was the vision of the men who wrote the Constitution, as I will show later in this series. It is still the vision today. The arrival of "others" from off-planet, another dimension or wherever it might be would be of tremendous importance to the immensely wealthy. You see, these people and those who work directly for them are "humanity" for all practical purposes. That is, it is they, and only they in the long run, who have the resources to actually DO something about whatever it is that the UFO represents. The rest of us have to make a living, go on about our business, and that goes for scientists, military officers and even Directors Of Central Intelligence. All of these are in the final analysis employees. But who can fire the recipients of the interest from enormous family trust funds? No one. No one at all. This is so because the rest of us, all of us, work for them -- whether we like it or not. Now, this is a tough thing to say, I know, and a much tougher one to believe. So, let me present some evidence, from a source above reproach, Princeton University. The following is from the book "Foundations Of National Power" by Harold and Margaret Sprout of Princeton, 1945, revised in 1951. Later on I will be using sources that some may feel are less reliable than two Princeton professors but I think that my readers will see that the tone and content have a certain continuity that, when taken together, create an almmost seamless whole and lead but to one conclusion. But more on that later. Foundations Of National Power is about the world created by our victory in World War II. It was written and revised when the United States was at the very height of its power, unchallenged by any other nation on Earth. As such it has a certain candid nature that is missing from many political science treatises today, as I think all of my readers will soon appreciate. When political scientists talk about the United States today there are certain taboos that are always in force. For example, the relationship of the Harriman family to Bill Clinton is just off-limits for the academics. They just are not going to get into how the immensely wealthy Harrimans might have lifted Bill Clinton from obscurity in Arkansas to the highest office in the land. This is just not going to be mentioned in semi- official information carried in the academic realm. But, when these same folks talk about another country all bets are off. The sleazy relationship between big money and the running of the nation (another nation) are fair game. So, let us quote the Sprouts at length on Japan, circa 1950, and see what kind of economy they have, who is in charge and what it means for the average Japanese. It is most enlightening: "The all-pervasive industrial combines called Zaibatsu illustrate the process. Zaibatsu is a slang term that means "the money crowd"; and in Occidental context it acquires unwanted dignity. Briefly, a Zaibatsu is a feudal duchy based on factories, mines, communications, finance, and commerce instead of on land. The peasant-serfs are replaced by factory hands who sometimes work behind barbed-wire fences or concrete walls topped by broken glass. The samurai warriors have been transmuted into financial and sales agents. The executive group retains the old name of banto which denoted those who performed administrative functions. A family-clan owns the industrial empire as their feudal counterpart owned a landed duchy. Each family-clan binds its members to obey a secret or partly secret code of family law. These codes concede the supremacy of the emperor by stating that the national law shall prevail over any conflicting provision of the house law -- but state also that the basic spirit and purpose of the house law shall not be superseded. "Of the zaibatsu perhaps the greatest is the Imperial Household. Japanese reverence for that sacred institution has protected the emperor's family from being dubbed a Zaibatsu. Next comes the house of Mitsui; that that of Iwasaki, whose far-flung enterprises are known byt he trademark Mitsubishi; then the lesser duchies of Sumitomo, Yasuda, et. al. The companies controlled by Mitsui, for example, require several pages for a full listing; they cover the range of heavy industry, banking, insurance, colonial exploitation, paper, textiles, chemicals, mining, food warehousing and merchandising, shipping, and foreign trade. Viewed through Western eyes, the picture calls to mind a European or AMERICAN FAMILY-OWNED TRUST. "The secret conclaves of the Mitsui family -- and of other Zaibatsu family-clans -- determine the destiny of millions of big and little people in all walks of life. They initiate and revoke the policies of the political parties and even of the proud bureaucrats of the civil service. Nor are they as innocent of army and navy influence as they sometimes assert. Always there are sons, sons-in-law, and cousins in both groups, while the bureaucracy also includes its quota of Zaibatsu personnel and their henchmen. All of this motivates many an internal struggle in the army, navy or bureaucracy which passes the understanding of the foreigner. "Zaibatsu policies, determined in secret family councils, are effected as circumstances dictate -- now openly, again subtly and invisibly. Individuals die but the councils of the great family- clans continue. Should the times require a "liberal" front, a suave graduate of Harvard, Yale or Princeton is available as window dressing. When a militaristic or even a religious "front" suits the clan purposes, that also is forthcoming. "These dominant family-clans and their dependents in a thousand public and private positions exercise power far beyond that wielded by their feudal prototypes. This continues true despite the relative independence of many of the corporations that are controlled indirectly. The patterns of organization, however, from the humblest factory hand to the family council, remain closely akin to those that maintained the old feudal estates." It is of interest to this writer that John Foster Dulles, Ike's Secretary of State, had been the chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation in the 1940s. His brother Allen was, with Wild Bill Donovan, a founder of OSS [ed - Office of Strategic Services the predecessor to the CIA, Central Intelligence Agency]. Donovan, the Dulleses and (Gen.) Hoyt Vandenberg, were all boyhood friends in New York. The man who ordered a full-scale Air Force investigation of UFOs after the Fort Monmouth incident in 1951, Gen. Cabell, was later to be Dulles' deputy at CIA until fired by John Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs. This Air Force general had a brother who happened to be the mayor of Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963. There are all kinds of associations like this in and around any investigation of our government and the UFO. We'll look at some more later. UFO Investigation -- Financial Considerations -- 2 Those of us interested in what is going on in the UFO arena are constantly treated to statements about what "the government" knows or doesn't know about UFOs. But what IS this "government," who has power within in it and how did they get that power? We all suspect that the our elected leaders are only very marginally powerful -- and this should be obvious since they serve at the pleasure of a fickle and media-influenced electorate and can be turned out, as they are being turned out now, at very high rates. No, the interesting people are those like Averell Harriman, who "served" in five different administrations, and Clark Clifford, who was in the Truman administration and still figures in the councils of the great today. And we can't forget the minions of the Rockefellers -- and Nelson himself, who wielded enormous power throughout the heart of the Cold War years. So, how does all of this work? Well, we have to look back to get the picture. To understand the true nature of our government and the ideology of those who created it and maintain it we have to go back to 1787 and the Constitutional Convention. Our tour guide for this trip back in time will be chapter 2 of "The Irony Of Democracy, based on The Economic History Of The Constitution" by Charles Beard (1912). The fifty-five men (all men) who met in Philadelphia shared one or more of the following characteristics: owner of a large estate; big-time merchant; real estate/land speculator or large-scale owner of public bonds or securities. To see how narrow this class was consider this quote: "Jefferson and Adams were among the very few of the nation's notables who were not at the Convention." What was the population of the United States in 1787? Well, it was just about 4 million people! Let us continue in this vein, "At the top of the social structure there was a tiny elite, most of them well-born, though some of them were self-made. This elite group dominated the social, cultural, economic and political life of the new nation." Thus we can see that from the very beginning the USA was founded of, by and for The Inheritors--the "well-born." Here is the absolute key to understanding American politics and economics. Until you get this, that the entire purpose of government in this country is the protection, creation and conveyance to the next generation of inherited wealth, you do not understand anything about American politics and economics. And the source of this inherited wealth was the power of the British Empire in creating, protecting and financing the Thirteen Colonies. For you see, "The Founding Fathers" were creatures and retainers of empire, from the very beginning. The United States was set on an Imperial course right from the very start, when Alexander Hamilton realized he that could begin to retire the massive national debt by selling land that belonged to the American Indians, who quickly became expendable. But I digress. In 1787 America was de-facto ruled by a few elite families, among them the Pinckneys and Rutledges in Charleston; the Adamses, Lowells and Gerrys in Boston; the Schuylers, Clintons and Jays of New York; the Morrises, Mifflins and Ingersolls of Philadelphia; the Jenifers and Carrolls of Maryland; and the Blairs and Randolphs of Virginia. The members of these families and their employees ran the place, or were trying to run it, at the time of the Revolution. But they were having some problems and that's why they needed something new and more powerful than the Articles Of Confederation. Under the Articles a war had been fought and eventually won. But each state was more or less free to ignore the Continental Congress' call for funds and thus a whole lot of borrowing had been done and an enormous debt created. The old Congress and various states owned investors (both foreign and domestic) about $70 million. This doesn't sound like much today but in 1787 that was equal to half of the total valuation of the entire property of the nation! And after the war the place was in ruins, one- third of the population (Tories) having been run off or killed (but their property expropriated!) and foreign trade wrecked. There was little money to pay anyone and the credit of the USA had fallen so low that "not worth a Continental" was a common epithet, on both sides of the Atlantic. The core of this problem lay with the Articles themselves, which did not give the central government the power to tax the states and make it stick. Also, with each state able to impose tariffs on interstate trade business between the colonies was a maze of small duties and tolls. Finally, without the power to tax, a decent military was impossible to maintain over time and the overseas trade of the colonies was vulnerable to piracy from individual thieves and military pressure from other powers. The new nation was in great trouble and so were its elites. As Franklin had said, "We must hang together or we will hang separately." At the time Franklin made this statement he was worried about the British army but with the war ended there was a new and equally serious threat--the rank and file population of the USA itself(!), now made destitute by war and wondering what had gone wrong. In the summer of the year before a full-scale revolt of farmers, small merchants, craftsmen and laborers (led by Daniel Shays, a Bunker Hill veteran) had for a while held the capital city of Massachusetts and this had to be put down with a mercenary army (paid for by the state's rich men) led by George Washington. Shay and dozens of others, who were protesting the foreclosure of veteran's small farms by the big landowners, were put to death, and the mood of the country was ugly. It was this event that was the referent for "insure the domestic tranquilty" in the preamble of the Constitution! Shay had said that if debts to British merchants could be legislated out of existence then so could outrageous debts owed by U.S. little people to the American rich. This, shall we say, was unacceptable, just as much now as it was then. Thus in February, 1787, fifty-five men of property and wealth met, in secret, to decide what to do about the serious condition of the country. Yes, folks, this was about the closest thing to a conspiracy you are ever going to see. Quote: "The founding fathers quickly chose George Washington (owned 30,000 acres on the Potomac, including the swamp that would later become the nation's capital) to preside over the assembly. Just as quickly the convention decided that its sessions would be held behind closed doors and that all proceedings would be a closely guarded secret." The author's next line is choice, "The founding fathers apparently realized that elites are most effective in negotiating, compromise and decision making when operating in secret." Yes, you could say that. . .although most of us might put a different "spin" on it. Let us consider that "The convention was said by many to be a happy reunion of old friends and comrades. They had shared many activites in their elite experiences." This was a cabal. Viz: "Washington could look around the room and see a half a dozen men who had voted him into command in 1775, a dozen who had been with him at Trenton, and another dozen who had supported him in Congress or had fished with him in the Potomac. Livingston had studied law with Yates and had been a patron of Hamilton. Hamilton was a friend of Madison and had shared books with Williamson, who had done experiments with Franklin, who was a close friend of Sherman, who had sold books to Baldwin, who was an old friend of the Morrises. And so on." "These same men had made all the key decisions in American history from the Stamp Act to the Declaration of Independence to the Articles of Confederation. They controlled the Congress of the United States and had conducted the Revolutionary War. Forty-two of these fifty-five men had already served in Congress and forty of them held high offices in the various states-- Franklin, Livingston and Randolph were governors. At a time when college educations were almost non-existent in America over half of these men had been educated at Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, William & Mary or in England. Thirty-six of them were trained in the law or were lawyers." Now we get to the skinny, "At least forty of the fifty-five delegates were known as holders of public securities, twenty-four were moneylenders, fourteen were real estate speculators, fifteen were large-scale slave owners and eleven were in commerce or manufacturing." Because of their economic positions these men had their differences. But their primary political attitudes were most uniform, even as they acknowledged differences over the methods by which those attitudes would be actuated. Government existed to do the following: Ensure the protection of life, liberty and property. By which they meant their lives, their liberty and their property. The new government was to do nothing which might modify the then- current distribution of wealth (existing, to them, by natural law) in the United States. This the founding fathers considered "dangerous leveling" and a serious violation of the "right to property." Though they made a show out of eschewing "hereditary monarchy" they did nothing to alter the ability of their heirs to inherit their property. In fact, they much strengthened it, thus insuring that the government, by and for propertied men, would remain in their and their families' control for as long as possible--forever in theory! You might note that many of the names seen above still figure in the elite life of the country, see Birmingham, The Right People and Lundberg, America's Sixty Families. Finally, government was to "protect and nourish private property, foster trade and commerce, protect manufacturing, assist in land development, enforce contracts, maintain a stable money supply, punish thievery, assist in the collection of debts, record the ownership of property and deeds, punish counterfeiting and piracy, protect copyrights and patents, regulate the value of the coinage, establish courts and regulate banking." And they would control it! In the end then, government would "establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity." That about sums it up. The new government would have an army and the power to tax everybody, through the various states, and thus pay off the bondholders of the revolution--themselves and their foreign allies. It's pretty good work, if you can get it. And they still get it today since their captive government has tripled the national debt since the early 1980s and THEY own most of it, the best parts of it, and we will be paying them and their heirs for decades to come, which was the whole and complete idea. End of parts 1 & 2 of 6, continues...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 3 & 4 of From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:27:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:44:07 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 3 & 4 of This is the eighth of the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFO UpDate. This essay has been divided into three posts, each containing two parts of the essay. There are six parts in toto. There will be approximately 25 essays in all. Several of these essays were posted in the past in the alt.paranet.ufo USENET newsgroup. These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. Unfortunately the author is not presently available on the Internet. However, if you would like to correspond with the author I have arranged a temporary internet email address that I will use for forwarding the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: This essay will speak for itself and give one something to contemplate while the list is inactive and ebk is away at Roswell 97. Gary Alevy ----------------------------------------------------------- Big Money and UFOs (parts 3 & 4 of 6) UFOSearch Val Germann Columbia, Missouri UFO Investigation -- Financial Considerations -- 3 In Part 2 of this series I showed how our current government was founded by a tiny elite in a conspiratorial manner. I know full well that many will say, "But that was then, this is now and the USA is a huge country that cannot be ruled by a tiny group of people, no matter how powerful or well placed." Well, I wish. Back in 1787 an opponent of the House Of Representatives grilled Madison on the terror it could be in the future when the nation would have expanded and the House made up of several hundred men, some by then of dubious (i.e., Democratic) character. Madison's answer? "No matter how large the group there is an iron law of oligarcy and only a few will seek to manipulate." We will soon see how prescient Madison was and how even today there is well and true an iron law. The numbers below refer to notes I have made in a book, "The Rockefellers, A Family Dynasty", 1978. (1) We are concerned here with David Rockefeller, son of John D. Rockefeller II and grandson of the original John D. Rockefeller. Those who have read Lundberg's America's Sixty Families (1941) and The Rich And The Super Rich (1967) know that the Rockefellers and their relations (see Stephen Birmingham's Our Crowd and The Right People) are the leading faction of the real power elite in the United States at this time. As you will soon see, this statement is not an exaggeration. (2) David Rockefeller in 1974 was chairman of the Chase Bank, one of the three greatest and most important banks in the world. The quote from Finance magazine is telling as is the following sentence about "systems of power guiding the nation." What can the source of this power be? Well, the next two paragraphs outline the facts: ". . .insofar as the private sector had a general interest, bankers expressed it; their very boards were the gathering places for corporate collectivities of power." Then just below we read, "It was the growing dominance of financial over industrial institutions, and of the large institutional investors over shareholding individuals as the legal owners of the country's leading corporations. These trends intersected in the emergence of banks as the epicenter of the economy. Controlling huge trusts and even larger pension funds, they had become the great powers of the economic order." You see, it is not the legal owners who necessarily control. . .it is the trust officers and directors of the banks who do, because they vote the stock! David Rockefeller "chaired a board of directors interlocked with the boards of Allied Chemical, Exxon, Standard of Indiana, Shell Oil, AT&T, Honeywell, General Foods and dozens of other corporate giants. The Chase was a leading stockholder in CBS, Jersey Standard, Atlantic Richfield, United Airlines, and a galaxy of other corporations--from AT&T and IBM to Motorola and Safeway. The power this stockholding position conferred was immense." Just a a few months ago the Clinton administration guided a new banking bill through Congress, a bill that received almost no attention in the media, obsessed as it was with OJ and abortion and school prayer. This bill gives banks like the Chase carte blanche to expand throughout the nation and to eventually underwrite stocks, something forbidden since the mid-1930s and the Glass-Stegall act. (3) In January of 1992 David Rockefeller II took over as chairman of the Chase Bank, his father having just retired. How is this possible? It is possible because at the very top of the U.S. power pyramid we see an intermarried, hereditary, plutocracy, the current version in place since the 1890's (see Lundberg) and still in the saddle today. The heirs, assigns, cousins, nephews, friends and employees of this group run the country, period. For instance, note that David took over in part for John McCloy, a man who had been a Rockefeller lawyer for decades and who was Allied administrator for the occupation of Germany in the late 1940s and the Undersecretary of War who signed (in 1942) the order creating Los Alamos. Later he was to be made DCl [ed - Director of Central Intelligence] and chairman of the board of IT&T. (4) What a shock it was to see that the odious George Gilder, relentless promoter of Reaganomics in academia in the early 1980s, is a godson of David Rockefeller. But, of course, something like this had to be true because Gilder has only a BA in English! Over and over again one sees this, unknown people suddenly appearing on national television as "experts" and debating with real people like Walter Heller. Now we know how and why! Today, Gilder has resurfaced as an "expert" on futurism and the New World Order. Reading George is to get the offical view of power concerning the shape of the world you and your children will be living in for the next generation or so. (5) David [ ed-Rockefeller] and JFK were contemporaries, born in 1915 and 1917 respectively. The strange relationship of the families goes backto the 1930s when Joseph Kennedy was made the first chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission by Franklin Roosevelt. Rockefeller II, David's father, used the New Deal and Kennedy to break the absolute power of the Morgan and Mellon Banks and give his three family banks, Chase, First National of New York (now CitiCorp), and Chemical Bank, a leg up to take Morgan's place. Part of this campaign involved the Glass-Stegall Act, which forbade banks from underwriting stock. Now that the Rockefeller banks truly rule the roost this act can be done away with, and it HAS BEEN, under Democrat Clinton, man of the people and flaming liberal (so-called). The point is the that the Kennedys were employees, flunkies, of the Rockefellers and their ilk. That's why they could be shot. Ditto for Clinton, former member of the Council on Foreign Relations and former Rhodes Scholar, who can (and will) be removed (hopefully without gunfire) when his task is finished. (6) The Rockefeller Brothers Study of the late 1950s (Chair: Henry Kissinger, member of the staff of Nelson Rockefeller) was an outline for the massive military build-up of the Cold War and was implemented in its entirety by Kennedy and Johnson. You have to understand that the real profit on guns and bombs approaches 50% on invested capital and if Quayle's trust fund ($100 million) is to keep paying that 8 per cent interest the money has to come from somewhere. Weapons really pay and Uncle Sam is not going out of that business for a long, long time--ask those who count. (7) As ruinous as these tax cuts and war-fighting budgets were for the country in the 1960s it was re-played in the 1980s under Reagan and Bush. How can this walk? Who benefits? Well, in the last election something like 37% of the eligible voters went to the polls, which means that something like 19% of the eligible voters put in the Newt-Man. The fact is that this economy can fall a long way and still keep the loyalty of about one-sixth of the population. See Lundberg for the means and methods that keep voter participation low enough for the plutocrats to call all the shots. (8) It seems that Rockefeller interests in Cuba were large and that Professor A.A. Berle, University of Chicago, author of the academically accepted account of the history of The Standard Oil, was a Rockefeller family advisor! How quaint! Note, too, that Rockefeller employees seem to wind up on the National Security Council in large numbers. Dean Rusk was chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation, as were other Secretaries of State John Foster Dulles and Christian Herter. Henry Kissinger also was, for a time, chairman of the fund. (9) The interests of the Rockefellers in Latin America are immense. They own vast oil fields in Venezuela, as do minor- leaguers like the Bush family and William F. Buckley. Their planning horizons are suitably long and the recent NAFTA treaty is simply the endstage of a generation of effort on the part of these people. Kennedy's interest in improving the lot of the average peasant in Latin American didn't get very far when faced with opposition from the Rockefellers at home and the brutal elite families of the countries in question. One of the first results of the counterattack was the 1964 coup in Brazil, engineered by CIA and hailed by Rusk at the bottom of page 416. The late 1960s saw one coup after another and together they put paid to any spread of Cuban-style reorganizations. See Sampson's "The Sovereign State of IT&T" for more on how CIA and corporate America arranges the assassinations of inconvenient foreign leaders who will not play ball with Rockefellers and Mellons. (10) In the last days of the Roman Republic, after the Punic Wars, the Gracci Brothers tried to reform Rome and forestall the emergence of out-and-out Empire. For their trouble they were both assassinated. You could look it up. America today is the New Rome, with its legions stationed around the world and its money accepted everywhere, just as was the case under Augustus and his successors. Rome was ruled by a few dozen families, you could look that up, too, and there was literally nothing they would not do to retain their power, up to and including assassinating inconvenient members of their own cadre. Is Richard Condon right and did old Joe Kennedy have to sign off on the killing of his own son once it became the desired end of those who truly rule? Such is more than possible in the New Rome, much as it was in the Old One. We'll have some information on Old Rome in a later number of this series. Is not the above very interesting? And now we know that these are the kinds of people financing UFO research in the USA. What should our take on this be? Are they doing this for the benefit of all the little people in the world or for their own long-run interest? To ask such a question is to answer it. UFO Investigation - Financial Considerations -- 4 Lurking beneath the surface of the UFO Phenomenon is a kind of millenialism, a belief that the "world" is going to end soon. Strieber now says that this refers not to a physical but to a mental "ending," though he was not always of this opinion. I also subscribe to a "mental" ending scenario BUT, behind this will come a huge physical change, worldwide, caused by the fact that the piper will eventually have to be paid for the billions of human beings who are now living on the Earth. In spite of what Rush Limbaugh would have us believe, there is no free lunch and what the economists call "cost externalization" cannot go on forever: for a very long time, yes -- but not forever. Thus the UFO has appeared amid the intellectual and moral swamp of the second-half-of-the-twentieth-century, to a world shocked by the trenches and gas of World War I; the mass bombing, Death Camps and nuclear fire of World War II and finally by the slow, steady decline of civilization and civility nearly everywhere. Our perception of the UFO is colored by these things, as it must be, especially here in the United States, where a polluted and worthless mass media cannot even get local city hall activities right. The appearance of Others is thus mixed and matched with the other "news" and we have to try to deal with it while we are confused, baffled and most of all angry, usually at those we are told to be angry with by that same mass media. One of the results of this is to be seen in this newsgroup where the hot air and bad faith outguns actual content by a ratio of 25 to 1 or so. This is as it should be, as it is desired to be, by those who in the end rule. That is, they do nothing to truly disturb the inherent tendencies in their citizens to loath and distrust each other. The polyglot empire they are trying to run, made up as it is of immigrants from around the world, is probably inherently un-runnable, but they don't care -- as long as the checks clear. But in our time the checks are getting closer and closer to not clearing as our economy slowly crumbles. Thus you see the spectacle of entire American family-clans leaving the country for the tax advantages. The same thing happened to Rome. When Ufology appeals to the U.S. government for access to "UFO secrets" it is appealing to functionaries, low-level employees, of the current world-wide empire, run (badly) from the top by a few dozen powerful families. The original Constitution is just a scrap of paper, a useful fiction, as Black agencies spy on the entire world with secret budgets equal to the GNP of Belgium. The Roman Emperor had the Privy Purse, the Black Budget of his time, and with it he could do ANYTHING. So it is today except there is no Emperor since modern public relations do not allow one. No, we have layers and layers of cut-outs today, but the job gets done just the same. So, how does the Big Money crowd rule? Well, in part they rule through the so-called political parties, which they fund. Let us take a look at one of these parties and how it works, and then follow that up with a look at what all of it means. The Republican Party in the 1990s is an amazingly constructed tool of elite design that commands the fanatical loyalty of millions of Americans who should be its hated enemies. At the top of the stack are the members of Lundberg's Super Rich, part of the international, intermarried, plutocratic group trying to cement a hold on the economies of the whole world through things like the U.N., GATT and NAFTA. Next on the list are the big corporate lawyers and executives, second-level inheritors (like Dan Quayle and George Bush) and the truly high-powered government officials and academics that make up the line management of the United States. Below them come mid-level inheritors and businessmen and the up-and-coming statewide elites and other public officials. Below them come a few hundred thousand small businessmen and salaried employees of both large corporations and government. Then, at the bottom, come millions of hourly workers (victims of the policies of the leaders of their own party) who vote Republican because the Democrats are the party of Godless liberals, nigger bitches, baby-killing abortion doctors, lesbian feminists and AIDS-riddled homosexuals. That should put things into their proper, Limbaugh-like, perspective. When I was a kid, my home town of Carrollton was a little city with a local elite who were solidly Republican and convinced that they were on their way to becoming little Rockefellers and Carnegies through the newspapers, banks and other businesses they were then running. Today the businesses are all closed, the banks are owned by out-of-staters and the local WalMart has wiped out our local inheritors. What happened? Well, as Lundberg shows so well in The Rich And The Super Rich, the real battle in the United States has always been Big Money against Some Money against Small Money, a conflict Small Money may win for a while but in the end must certainly lose. Everything we see in government and the mass media has a referent to this world, a world of dog-eat-dog conflict and vicious infighting, vicious because the participants know the real stakes--the continuation, for the next several generations, of their families above the degradation that most Americans have to live with every day. Most rank and file Americanos in the end care little or nothing for their progeny and do not provide for them, sending them out into the world on their own, with nothing, yet with the expectation that they will somehow "get along." This is madness, yet it is the mental state of more than 90% of our people. And it is no accident, for if the worthless products produced by Big Money are to be bought, the buyers must have nearly zero concern for the future. Cui Bono? In a nutshell, since World War II the old-line Taft Republicans (Small and medium-town "Main Street" people and the farmers) have been wiped out. Their place has been taken by a sludge of semi- educated, new-urban, salaried and hourly workers (Dittoheads) frightened by what has happened to the country but not knowing one damn thing about how it got that way. They are herded down the chutes of oblivion by half-wit television preachers (themselves making millions off their insipid flocks), radio flacks (ditto) and glad-handing, traitorous politicans who make noise about doing what "America" wants while their palms are out to the Big Money crowd. Since our politics are so debased that only about 35% turn out for non-Presidential elections this sludge is sufficient to vote in anyone if conditions are right. And conditions can be made right at any time. Our American sludge is continuously whipped to a frenzy by the Mass Media, this institution owned or controlled by Big Money and now the active tool of a psychological warfare campaign aimed straight at the mystified members of the "New Majority." Helpless they are in its demonizing grip and they now believe, in their millions, that the problems of the country are all caused by nigger mothers and diseased queers, the niggers degraded by their inferior genes and the queers condemned by deviant desires beyond the imaginations of God-fearing, kitchen-drinking, child-molesting Fundamentalist Americanos, sexually obsessed (with young children and big tits) though they may be. Topping it all off is the presence of 300 million guns, most of them owned by this sludge, which every year becomes more inclined to open fire--on nearly anyone, the victim being a family member or fellow employee much more often than it is someone who really deserves to die, like a baby-killing doctor or a pinko-fag-liberal. This is a harsh indictment and many will disagree. But does it not fit the tenor of the times, a time when half-smart farmers from the Midwest blow up whole buildings with fertilizer, just like any banana republic? This writer grew up in the Midwest and an organization called the Minutemen was headquartered just a few miles down the road. I played baseball with the sons of Robert DePugh, a name some may remember, the leader of the Minutemen who was framed by the FBI in 1968 and sent to Federal Prison. These modern "militias" are not new, they are merely the continuation of what was going on the 1950s among mass-media-educated, rural, white Americans threatened and confused by the New World Order, a term coined a long time ago: Novus Ordo Seclorum. Is it possible for a public and a society in such a state to make a correct response to the advent of "Visitors?" No. The level of distrust and bad faith prevalent in the USA today is high, very high, and the immediate reaction of Americans today is to strike out viciously at what is feared, what is not known, what is different. A certain amount of this is always present but in our time this reaction has been raised to public policy status. In this sense our elites have degraded us to levels rarely seen in history, atomized and isolated us, made many of us less than human. Millions of Americans are cut off from their families, from their history, from any history, and thus are barbarians as wild and dangerous as those who swept down on Europe from the steppes over a thousand years ago. The current fashion in the United States is to put the minority male in this particular box but, let me tell you, as one born and raised in rural Missouri, they ain't got nothing on some of the guys I know. It's just who gets the ink and for a while we got some of our own back. Until this deeply seated inhumanity, inculcated in many of us by a culture and society geared in the end ONLY to making money for the very few, is faced for what it is, we are going nowhere, not just in the UFO arena but in the larger arena of civilization itself. And that will lead us to Part 5 in this series. End of parts 3 & 4 of 6, continues...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 Mars Isn't an Easy Destination From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:46:08 -0400 Subject: Mars Isn't an Easy Destination --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Mars Isn't an Easy Destination Date: 97-06-26 22:55:14 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By JANE E. ALLEN PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - The path to Mars is fraught with peril. The last four space missions to the red planet - one American and three Russian - have failed. The most notable was NASA's $1 billion Mars Observer, which disappeared on Aug. 21, 1993, just before getting into Mars orbit. On Nov. 16, 1996, Russia's $300 million Mars 96 suffered a rocket engine failure after launch and crashed into the Pacific Ocean. The twin Soviet Phobos probes, launched in July 1988, also failed. Phobos 1 received an inadvertent suicide command from Earth. Phobos 2 stopped transmitting in 1989, after collecting data about Mars and the small martian moon for which it was named. ``Getting to Mars is hard. Doing stuff at Mars is right out on the edge of human technological capability,'' noted Roger Bourke, an engineer on the staff of the Mars Exploration Directorate at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. ``It's 1,000 times farther away than the moon.'' Of at least 16 Russian or Soviet attempts to reach Mars, only one achieved its mission - a strong contrast to the tremendous Soviet successes landing on Venus and the U.S. track record of six Mars successes in nine attempts. ``It's like they (the Russians) were just plagued in this Mars arena and I don't think there's any single explanation,'' Bourke said. The Soviets actually kicked off the era of Mars exploration in October 1960 when they launched two unnamed spacecraft four days apart that never even reached Earth orbit. Other failures or partial successes followed in 1962, 1964, 1971 and 1973. The Soviet's single, unqualified success was the Mars 5 mission in 1973, which returned data and pictures. NASA did better with the six Mariner spacecraft it sent up between 1964 and 1971. Four completed their missions. Mariners 4, 6 and 7 made successful picture-taking flybys. In 1971, Mariner 9 became the first spacecraft to orbit another planet. NASA lost contact with Mariner 3 shortly after launch in 1964; Mariner 8 plummeted into the Atlantic after launch in 1971 because of a rocket failure. The biggest martian achievement so far came from America's twin Viking orbiters and landers, launched in the summer of 1975. Together, they transmitted more than 50,000 images back to Earth. They also sampled dusty soil but found no evidence of life. Viking 1 stayed in operation until 1982. End Adv for Sunday, June 29 AP-NY-06-26-97 2248EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 5 & 6 of From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:28:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:44:35 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #8 - Big Money and UFOs parts 5 & 6 of This is the eighth of the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFO UpDate. This essay has been divided into three posts, each containing two parts of the essay. There are six parts in toto. There will be approximately 25 essays in all. Several of these essays were posted in the past in the alt.paranet.ufo USENET newsgroup. These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. Unfortunately the author is not presently available on the Internet. However, if you would like to correspond with the author I have arranged a temporary internet email address that I will use for forwarding the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: This essay will speak for itself and give one something to contemplate while the list is inactive and ebk is away at Roswell 97. Gary Alevy ----------------------------------------------------------- Big Money and UFOs (parts 5 & 6 of 6) UFOSearch Val Germann Columbia, Missouri Big Money And UFOs -- 5: Laurance Rockefeller As a UFO analyst I live in the past almost all of the time. That is, I depend on the hard work of others for the vast majority of my information and it takes time for that information to see the light of day. Nowhere is this more true than where someone like Laurance Rockefeller is concerned. When it comes to what the Rockefellers are doing right NOW I know about what everyone else does: not much. But I have informed myself as to what they have done in the past and how they have done it. This information sheds considerable light on what they might be doing now since consistency is one of the Rockefeller hallmarks. This message will concern the Laurance Rockefeller who is/was a brother to Nelson, Winthrop, David and John D. Rockefeller 3rd. The Laurance Rockefeller who is helping bankroll John Mack could well be the same person you will read about below. Laurance Rockefeller (b. 1910) became interested in high tech firms in 1938 with the foundation of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. During World War II Laurance was in the Navy overseeing the production of patrol bombers before being shifted to the fighter desk by his good friend James V. Forrestal. At this time Laurance owned 20 per cent of McDonnell aircraft which had been founded by Laurance's college friend James S. McDonnell, with some help from Laurance. It seems that both were at Princeton. In 1947 there was talk of a Congressional investigation of Navy contracts vis-a-vis McDonnell during the period that Laurance was in the Navy. But, that investigation never seemed to get off the ground, no pun intended. Thus Laurance sailed on, later forming a consortium with family friends C. Douglas Dillon and Felix DuPont to make a fortune out of helicopter production during the Korean War. This consortium also owned Nuclear Development Associates, the original power behind civilian nuclear reactors, and a little company called ITEK, which would make the spy cameras for the U-2 and America's spy satellites. The capital for these ventures would come from brother David's Chase Bank, the very center of Rockefeller power and the prime force behind the great war scare of 1948, which I have documented earlier. In 1950 Laurance hired Lewis Strauss, former Kuhn, Loeb banker who had been an assistant to Herbert Hoover in World War I, an official in the 1930s of the company that later became UniRoyal, and the lawyer/banker who had helped Kodak market Kodachrome and later aided Dr. Land and his Polaroid. Strauss spent World War Two in the Navy and had been made an Admiral by his good friend James V. Forrestal. Funny how things like this worked out. In any event, in 1950 Strauss was overseeing the Rockefeller Brothers Fund and was heavily connected into the high-tech science world. He left Rockefeller employ to become the chairman of the AEC under Eisenhower, just as Laurance put together a company called United Nuclear which had the inside track on the development of civilian atomic power. Also at this time ITEK was created, begun when a Boston University scientist advised his good friend Laurance Rockefeller that Ike's Administration was going to liquidate Boston University's Physics Research Lab. I wonder how they knew of this in advance? Probably just luck. Anyway, Laurance bought the thing and put his good scientific friend in charge of it. It made millions out of the U-2 and the Discovery satellites, both of which were promoted relentlessly by Rockefeller operatives, including Nelson (!), inside the former Council On Foreign Relations member's (Ike) administration. Later on, Laurance would be a power behind LBJ's administration and his wife would give Lady Bird the idea for her beautification of America scheme. In 1969 Laurance would use his connections into the world of "conservation" to help push through SLAC, the Stanford Linear Acclerator, over the objections of the people who actually lived there. By that time he would have been president of the Jackson Hole (WY) Preserve society for decades and his family would own large tracts in the West. Also by the middle 1970s Laurance and his brother Nelson would have created several "conservation" societies revolving around the family's Pocantico estate (47,000-plus acres) on the Hudson River. How many folks investigating UFOs know that the so-called Hudson Valley Object has been flying for years over an area that is more or less a Rockefeller private preserve? Do you think the family might be interested in that, or MORE than interested? Big Money And UFOs -- 6: The Hudson Valley Object This writer spent the night of November 19/20, 1980 on a friend's farm near Ashland, Missouri, trying to find the planet Pluto through an 8-inch telescope. This was unfortunate because around midnight a huge flying triangle, blasting along at about 40 mph, passed almost directly over my house. If I had been observing from my backyard that night/morning I could hardly have missed it. As it was, hundreds of people did NOT miss it and I have talked to many of them over the 15 years since. At around 7 pm that evening two college students in Kirksville, Missouri, about 90 miles north of Columbia in the northeastern part of the state, were sitting in a parking lot on campus discussing the day's football game. They noticed a bright light to the east but did not think much of it, believing it to be an aircraft with its landing lights on. They observed the light for about half an hour as it slowly came closer. By about 7:40 pm the light was getting quite close and very, very bright. It dominated the sky even in the presence of a first quarter moon. About 7:45 the lights (there were now two of them) and the object to which they were attached passed very near the Moon. The two students were shocked to see that the brilliant lamps high in the south were on the leading edge of a huge triangular shaped object moving slowly, oh so slowly, from east to west. They jumped into their cars and followed it across town, at no time going faster than about 40 mph. They easily kept up. When they reached their fraternity house they roused everyone inside and they all watched the object, now with two red lights visible on its trailing edge, fly majestically away to the west, at about 40-50 mph. It seems that this object flew over 100 miles straight west to the vicinity of Princeton, Missouri, where it turned south and headed down highway 65 (passing over my home town of Carrollton) to Interstate 70. Then it turned east at an altitude of a few hundred feet and headed down the four lane highway, occasionally slowing traffic. Sometime between midnight and 1 a.m. it arrived at Columbia where it was witnessed by many, many people, including law enforcement officers, some of whom chased it to the east, all the way to Fulton, Missouri. Two policemen attempted to break into the University of Missouri observatory in order to get a better look at the object through the 16-inch telescope. But no one in the building at that time had a key or knew how to operate the telescope. This incident is mentioned briefly in Imbrogno's book [ ed. - Night Seige The Hudson Vallevy Sightings. Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Phillip Imbrogno with Bob Pratt, 1987] on the Hudson Valley flap of 1983-85. Now, let's think about this. A large, strange flying object is seen by the public over the northeastern quadrant of Missouri. For more than seven hours it flies, unmolested, at low altitude, over heavily populated areas and major interstate highways. The Air Force has a base near Warrensburg, Missouri, 50 miles south of Carrollton, and they were called. No interception was made, at least none that I have ever heard of or been able to find. The FAA radar at Kirksvile had it on their screens early in the evening and the operator saw it visually at the same time. The witnesses I have talked to who kept the object in view for many minutes report that commercial airliners flew above the object on more than one occasion. It sailed serenely on its way. Now this is amazingly similiar to what has been reported, on a much grander scale, just about 50 miles north of Manhatten in Westchester County, New York, along the Hudson River Valley and in the vicinity of the family homes of the wealthiest and most influential people in the United States and by extension the world. I have a friend who three years ago had reason to be in the corporate offices of a huge international firm whose U.S. headquarters were in Westchester County. He was there in an adversarial way and two of the firm's lawyers were there, too, making sure the files that were examined were the correct ones. Hour after hour this went on and the people involved struck up a casual acquaintanceship. What were these two lawyers talking about? UFOs. It seems that the mother of one of them had called her son to her home the night before because of the overflight, at very low altitude, of the Westchester Wing. Get a map and look at the area involved. The Rockefeller family estate of Pocantico is right there, smack in the middle of it. Nearby, too, is West Point, as is the former Stuart Air Force Base. Interesting, isn't it? And interesting, too, is the fact that the most important economic development in recent years has been the development of the E.E.C. [ed. - European Economic Community] and its headquarters in, er, well, er, Belgium. . .where the Westchester Wing has been flying, too, for several years, just as the Green Fireballs flew over Los Alamos back in the late 1940s. Is it just coincidence that big money began to flow into UFO research, surreptitiously, in the late 1980s? I don't think so. The Wing flew over my house but, so what, what can I do about it? Not very much. . .write a few articles. But when the Wing flies over the Rockefellers' houses, well, that's different. That's going to get some action -- of some kind. A Little More Background On The Rockefellers, Funding Source For Abduction Research, And Pocantico, New York -- Plus a few notes. Val Germann Columbia, Missouri We turn to Ferdinand Lundberg and his blockbuster 1937 book "America's Sixty Families", page 423: "In surveying the residential seats of the Rockefeller family it is also difficult to know to which family one should assign each mansion and estate, as the Rockefellers are intermarried, as we have seen, with the Stillmans (CitiCorp), Carnegies (U.S. Steel), McCormicks (Chicago Tribune), Aldriches (old Colonial Connecticut family), Davisons (J.P. Morgan partner), Dodges (Phelps-Dodge Mines), and others. We will, however, concentrate on the two main Rockefeller lines of descent, observing first, however, that the Rockefeller publicity men, geniuses of a sort, have admirably suggested that this imperial family lives rather ascetically; seldom are descriptions of the Rockefeller residential interiors permitted to leak out, so that one must reconstruct them mentally from fragmentary suggestions just as a paleontologist reconstructs the framework of a dinosaur from a few scraps of bone. "There is, first, the great family duchy of thirty-five hundred acres at Pocantico Hills, near Tarrytown, New York. (Now much enlarged and extended, VG) On this estate stand five separate family mansions, for as each child marries a house is constructed for separate occupancy. Like the Standard Oil Company, the estate has been assembled with guile and force against the will of neighbors. In Cleveland the Rockefellers had a town house on Euclid Avenue and a regal estate at Forest Hill, now turned into an expensive real-estate development; but in the 1890s the family moved to Pocantico Hills. "This estate at the turn of the century comprised only about sixteen-hundred acres, which have since been added to by purchase and by persuasion. The first brush the elder Rockefeller had with the local authorities, who are now the family's most loyal servitors, was occasioned by his desire to have Tarrytown construct a road around the Croton reservoir, the property of New York City. This road would connect his home with that of his brother William, on the other side of the reservoir. Rockefeller proceeded in violation of the law to have the road built, even using hired roughnecks to drive local officials from the area. "In 1929, Rockefeller, Jr., paid the town of Eastview $700,000 for the priviledge of ousting forty-six families so that the main line of the Putnam division of the New York Central Railroad might run along what was Eastview's main street instead of through the gradually swelling Pocantico Estate. "The assessed evaluation of the Rockefeller demesne in 1928 was $5,588,050, calling for a tax of $137,000. According to the New York Times (May 24, 1937) the elder Rockefeller's fifty-room mansion at Pocantico, surrounded by fully nurtured gardens, alone cost $2,000,000 to build and $500,000 per year to maintain, while the estate requires the services of three hundred and fifty employees and thirty teams of horses the year round, making a monthly payroll of $18,000. "From the New York Herald Tribune, also May 24, 1937: "From the village of East View the estate extends northward three miles over soft, pleasant countryside to the boundaries of Ossining, where it joins the estate of the elder James Stillman, former president of the National City Bank (CitiCorp today, VG). At the southern tip of Pocantico on a high knoll stands the massive Georgian house of Mr. Rockefeller. It lies in the center of the estate's only enclosure area, 350 acres surrounded by a high fence with two gates. Thirty watchmen, twenty in the winter when the families are living in town, patrol the enclosure in eight hour shifts to keep out unwelcome visitors. "There is also the William Rockefeller line of more than one hundred persons. More than fifty of his great-grandchildren will be millionaires by 1950. In all it can be estimated that the existing Rockefeller establishments, including the thirty-two thousand acre Adirondak estate of William, have a total valuation of $50,000,000 to $75,000,000." And this was in 1937!!! Multiply that by at least fifteen today, and that doesn't count the pure additions made since then! Now, beginning on page 375 of the same book is Lundberg's analysis of who controls the agenda at a few of America's better colleges and universities, sites of Internet nodes today: 1) Harvard: J.P. Morgan management; Standard Oil largest donor. 2) Yale: Morgan-Rockefeller; Standard Oil largest donor. 3) Columbia: National City Bank management (William Rockefeller) 4) Chicago: Rockefeller management, Standard Oil largest donor. 5) M.I.T.: Du Pont management, George Eastman largest donor. 6) Standord: Southern Pacific management, Leland Stanford donor. 7) Duke: Duke (Sun Oil) family management and donation. 8) Cornell: Rockefeller management. 9)Princeton: National City Bank management (Wm. Rockefeller). 10) Johns Hopkins: Morgan influence on Board of Trustees. 11) Northwestern:Deering Family, McCormick largest donors. 12) Cal Tech: Crocker, (Union Pacific) Hearst, Bank of America. 13) Penn: J.P. Morgan management, Drexel, Morgan donors. 14) Carnegie Inst.: Mellon & Carnegie (Steel,Aluminum) donors. "All of these schools are adjuncts, or departments, of the big corporations and banks, and are most or less openly operated as such. This is evidenced in many ways, but mainly (a) by the identities of the trustees, most of whom are men engaged in pecuriary pursuits as deputies of the great fortunes or in person the ruling heads of the great forturnes; (b) by the composition of the investment portfolios of the institutions themselves; (c) by the curricular emphasis upon studies of direct pecuniary value to the wealthiest estates, studies embracing, in the main, the physical sciences and problems of business administration as well as the professional pursuits; and (d) by the recurrent offical pronouncements of the presidents of the institutions on behalf of the political, economic and social status quo. "Of the trustees of the top 27 institutions of higher learning in 1937 (659 people), 254 are bankers, 141 are merchants, 111 are utility operators, 63 are railroad executives, 153 are professional men, 22 are judges, 7 are miscellaneous. These top 27 schools possess about one-half of the total endowment of all scholls and colleges in the United States. "Among the trustees of Harvard are: Henry Sturgis Morgan, son of J.P. Morgan; George Whitney, Morgan partner; Charles Francis- Adams, Boston banker and father-in-law of Henry Sturgis Morgan; Walter S. Gifford, president of AT&T (Morgan); George R. Agassiz (copper magnate); Gaspar G. Bacon, son of a Morgan partner." "On the one hundred percent reactionary board of M.I.T. are Gerald Swope, president of General Electric (Morgan); W. Cameron Forbes, director of AT&T (Morgan); Pierre S. Du Pont; Lammont Du Pont; Albert Wiggin, former chairman of Chase Bank (Rockefeller); Alfred Sloan, president of General Motors (Du Pont) and director of E.I. Du Pont de Nemours and Company (Du Pont). "Similiar personalities dominate all the private university and college boards, and select the academic presidents who dragoon the faculties and give utterance as well to reactionary pronouncements under the ostensible sanction of science and learning, enlightenment and progress. Without readily perceptible exception, the university presidents are the drudges of the money lords that lurk behind the boards of trustees. "One of the prime purposes of university endowments is to avoid taxes. Another is to mass stock voting power through interlocked boards of university trustees and boards of corporation directors. This goes along with the rise of universities as great financial institutions, due to the appearance of income, estate, and gift-tax laws. The wealthy, in making "gifts" to education have attained triple value for their money, since their gifts have enabled them to get control of a large pool of money most of which has actually been given by others. Meerly to be able to designate depositary banks and investment vehicles is very profitable, even though the directors of a fund do not actually own it. To be able to purchase materials from companies of one's own choice is also very profitable." Now, how many of my readers know that the Internet backbone was sold to "private" concerns (AT&T, Morgan) a few months ago? So, if any of you were looking for any long-range change in our society due to the "information superhighway," well, better think again. *** P.S. For the true M.I.T. spirit we turn to the great physicist Karl T. Compton (Compton Effect), president of M.I.T. in the 1930s, and this comment on one of the many effects of the Great Depression, then raging in the land: "The attention and money devoted to relief and regulation interferes with simultaneous adequate attention and support of the basic contribution which our sciences can make." And you thought something had actually changed since 1937!! End, Series. Big Money & UFOs -- Update -- December, 1995 The Rockefellers, Laurance & David Val Germann Columbia, Missouri There is no doubt that the original Laurance Rockefeller, now 85 years old, is the power behind much UFO research in the United States. This man, one of two surviving grandsons of the first John D. Rockefeller, has been a true major league player in the affairs of the United States since the 1930s! If he is interested in UFOs then they are indeed very, very important. Some of my readers may know that the Rockefeller family is about to make a big killing in the re-aquisition of Rockefeller Center, which they sold to the Japanese (and others) in the mid-1980s. It looks like the total profit the family will realize on this deal will be in the $1.5 Billion area since they are buying back a $2.2 Billion property (current value) for about 40 per cent of the $1.5 Billion they sold it for ten years ago. In the process they have handed the Mitusbishi Estate Company (brought you the Japanese "Zero" in World War II!) their financial head on a plate and restablished the family reputation at the head of the world class of very large sharks. Now, whose idea do you think it was to sell 30 Rock to the Japs? Well, it was Laurance's idea, and he pushed it through the family meeting at Pocantico over the objections of David and others. Oh, how various people howled at first. But, now, a decade later, the far-sighted Laurance has been vindicated, and the family has their centerpiece back, along with a tidy premium. Let me tell you something, if the human race has a planetary royalty, this guy is a member. Bill Clinton is a pimple on Laurance's butt, as is any politician, bureaucrat or military officer in the United States. If Laurance Rockefeller has hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on UFOs. . .don't you think it behooves YOU to find out something about them too? I think so. *** (End of Big Money and UFOs)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 NASA Plans Mars Touchdown July 4 From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:47:34 -0400 Subject: NASA Plans Mars Touchdown July 4 --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: NASA Plans Mars Touchdown July 4 Date: 97-06-26 22:57:07 EDT From: AOL News <HTML><PRE><I>.c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By JANE E. ALLEN PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - This Independence Day, it's the United States that will play alien invader. About the time Americans are watching holiday parades down Main Street, NASA's Mars Pathfinder will gently parachute to the rocky surface of the red planet to begin a search that one day could yield evidence of life. If successful, Pathfinder would be the first earthly craft to touch Mars since NASA's twin Viking landers set down in 1976, scooping up sand yet finding no trace of living things. If it fails, the $267.5 million Pathfinder mission would join four U.S. and Russian Mars-bound flops in the last decade, including America's $1 billion Mars Observer that was lost in space in 1993. ``It looks like there is a gremlin out there, slapping everything that's coming toward Mars,'' jokes Brian Muirhead, Pathfinder's deputy project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. But given Pathfinder's excellent performance since it was launched last December, Muirhead foresees ``an outstanding chance of pulling this thing off.'' Pathfinder is headed for Ares Vallis - a vast, ancient flood plain formed by the equivalent of ``taking all the water in the Great Lakes and flushing it out to the Gulf of Mexico in a two-week period,'' said Pathfinder project scientist Matthew Golombek. The area is about 525 miles southeast of where Viking 1 landed. After its airbag-cushioned touchdown, Pathfinder will release Sojourner, a 22-pound, solar-powered rover about the size of a microwave oven - the smallest planetary craft ever launched. Named after black abolitionist Sojourner Truth, the six-wheel vehicle will move herky-jerky across the martian plain for at least a week. It will be the first time a rover has explored the surface of another planet. Endowed with a hazard-avoidance system making it ``as smart as a bug,'' Sojourner will nose up to rocks and analyze their chemical composition, says Donna Shirley, who led JPL's rover development team and now manages its Mars exploration program. While Sojourner cavorts and its cameras record, instruments aboard the 793-pound Pathfinder lander, which should operate for a month, will take color pictures and compile a Mars weather report. Pathfinder heralds a n"aol://1722:aboutwork">About Work</A> This area has useful tools and resources--a resume maker, a bank-ready business plan, and expert advisors. (<I>keyword:</I> About Work) <A HREF="aol://1722:careercenter">Career Center</A> Areas on career issues, databases of employers, putting together the perfect resume, and helping you craft your cover letters. (<I>keyword:</I> Career Center) </P><P ALIGN=LEFT>Want more places to explore? Then visit <A HREF="aol://4344:1225.mem324.6885128.543683916">AOL Members' Choice</A> (<I>keyword:</I> Member's Choice), where you'll find a collection of AOL's most popular areas. You can also subscribe to one of AOL's free <A HREF="aol://4344:1204.lettersk.9377803.529626359">newsletters</A> (<I>keyword:</I> Newsletter). They come to you via e-mail -- and each issue is chock full of hyperlinks to new and exciting areas we're sure you'll enjoy. Of course, whenever you want to explore your interests you can always go back to Match Your Interests. Just click the "keyword" button in your toolbar and type in <A HREF="aol://1722:MatchYourInterests">Match Your Interests</A> (or use this hyperlink). Thanks for choosing AOL, and for using Match Your Interests! Sincerely, <I>The AOL Interest Team</I> P.S. -- To refer to this letter later on, you should print it or save it to your Favorite Places folder. Print it by clicking the printer icon at the top of your screen. (We've already explained how to use Favorite Places, but to learn more about this feature you can go here: <A HREF="aol://4344:1580.FFfavrit.12256026.522067454">Favorite Places </A>) </PRE></HTML> ,mrcsharp,mrhonig,mrichmo)NASA Plans Mars Touchdown July 4<HTML><PRE><I>.c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By JANE E. ALLEN PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - This Independence Day, it's the United States that will play alien invader. About the time Americans are watching holiday parades down Main Street, NASA's Mars Pathfinder will gently parachute to the rocky surface of the red planet to begin a search that one day could yield evidence of life. If successful, Pathfinder would be the first earthly craft to touch Mars since NASA's twin Viking landers set down in 1976, scooping up sand yet finding no trace of living things. If it fails, the $267.5 million Pathfinder mission would join four U.S. and Russian Mars-bound flops in the last decade, including America's $1 billion Mars Observer that was lost in space in 1993. ``It looks like there is a gremlin out there, slapping everything that's coming toward Mars,'' jokes Brian Muirhead, Pathfinder's deputy project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. But given Pathfinder's excellent performance since it was launched last December, Muirhead foresees ``an outstanding chance of pulling this thing off.'' Pathfinder is headed for Ares Vallis - a vast, ancient flood plain formed by the equivalent of ``taking all the water in the Great Lakes and flushing it out to the Gulf of Mexico in a two-week period,'' said Pathfinder project scientist Matthew Golombek. The area is about 525 miles southeast of where Viking 1 landed. After its airbag-cushioned touchdown, Pathfinder will release Sojourner, a 22-pound, solar-powered rover about the size of a microwave oven - the smallest planetary craft ever launched. Named after black abolitionist Sojourner Truth, the six-wheel vehicle will move herky-jerky across the martian plain for at least a week. It will be the first time a rover has explored the surface of another planet. Endowed with a hazard-avoidance system making it ``as smart as a bug,'' Sojourner will nose up to rocks and analyze their chemical composition, says Donna Shirley, who led JPL's rover development team and now manages its Mars exploration program. While Sojourner cavorts and its cameras record, instruments aboard the 793-pound Pathfinder lander, which should operate for a month, will take color pictures and compile a Mars weather report. Pathfinder heralds a new era of U.S. space exploration. In its wake, NASA will dispatch fleets of small, unmanned spaceships to scout places which better instruments - and intrepid astronauts - might visit later. ``Initially, (Pathfinder) will just look at geochemistry of the surface ... at areas that look like they've been flooded with water, places we're most likely to (eventually) find ancient evidence of life,'' says Wesley Huntress Jr., NASA's space science chief in Washington, D.C. At the very least, the rover is likely to find the iron compounds that make Mars look like ``a rust pit,'' Golombek said. The fourth planet from the sun, Mars is considered the most Earthlike, with a thin atmosphere,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 BWW Media Alert 970626 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:18:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:52:24 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970626 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) June 26, 1997 Let me start out by saying that I'm not going to get it all this week :) . Everywhere you turn, there will be coverage of Roswell. It's interesting to me that Roswell, which for thirty years wasn't even a footnote in ufology, now has the biggest "footprint", as they say. Every major news outlet will probably have somebody in Roswell for the anniversary doings...I mean, instead of Woodstock, it's like it's Dilithiumstock, or something. The SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO show on Power Thinking on Wed. seemed to go well...I've gotten several new subscribers (wave) as a result. It should be archived soon: check the website (http://www.sightings.com), and go to Real Audio and pick Archives from there. My giant snake show is already up there. Oh, the mailing with the UFO Poll results took several days to get to me, so there may be some delay. Because of that, I'm going to try and get this out earlier this week, even though it may not be as complete as usual. Okay, let's get to it! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Rebecca Keith�s excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. The SCI-FI Channel has an incredible line-up this week in their "ALIENS AMONG US: ROSWELL AND BEYOND" series. EARTH VS. THE FLYING SAUCERS runs Tuesday at 4:00 PM and 8:00 PM. WAR OF THE WORLDS is at 6:01 PM and 10:01 PM on Tuesday. THE THING (the 1982 version) runs in letterbox at 4:00 PM and 8:00 PM on Wed. THE BLOB (1958) is at 6:01 PM and 10:01 PM on Wed. Thurs. is IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE at 4:00 and 8:00 PM. IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE 2 is at 6:01 PM and 10:01 PM on Thurs. Friday, all the series run UFO episodes...don't miss Frank Gorshin (one of my faves...the original Batman tv series ((the Adam West one)) Riddler) at 9:00 am. I don't know if the show's any good, but I always like him...it's an ep of MONSTERS. Over on USA at 11:00 AM on Wed, they run the WINGS episode with a UFO, "Plan Nine from Nantucket". The SCI-FI CHANNEL runs THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN episodes featuring bigfoot and aliens on Monday and Wed. at 2:00 PM. BOOKS* I've got to tell you, I recently read a book I really enjoyed. In a sense, it was an old-fashioned book. The author actually went into the field and did the research! It sort of reminded me of one of my favorite authors, John A. Keel. The book is called THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY* by Christopher O'Brien. It specifically covers UFO and other weird events in the San Luis Valley in Colorado. Regional interest books are often amateurish, but that is not at all the case here. It's also apparent that O'Brien isn't bending the facts to fit a preconceived theory, or specifically looking for outlandish things to spice the book up. Here's the info:THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY by Chistopher O'Brien, St. Martin's Paperbacks, New York, 1996. ISBN 0-312-95883-8. No pictures (a definite weakness, since several are referred to in the text), no index. Does have a bibliography. MAGAZINES, NEWSLETTERS, PERIODICALS, ETC. FORTEAN TIMES, #99, July 1997. The foremost British magazine on all this weird stuff, it's pretty readily available in large bookstores in the U.S. as well. Great website, too, at http://www.forteantimes.com. This issue's features include: HELL'S TEETH, a fascinating story with a great picture of a saw-backed beast in the Amazon by Jeremy Wade; WATH THIS SPACE by Paul Parsons, an outer space bit; JUST DO IT, on Heaven's Gate by Bruce Wright; and RUMBLE IN THE OUTBACK by David Guyatt...it's on the Japanese Aum cult, and the possibility that they are causing earthquakes (this is scary stuff, and the sources of information are public and well-placed). Forum pieces this month include: triangular UFOs by James Easton; ripping into Derrel Sims with Rebecca Keith; giant anacondas, by Loren Coleman; Ian Simmons are perception; Paul Deveraux on Web surfers; cloning, by Niclas Rasche; and the Bay Cat of Borneo, by Karl Shuker. Of course, STRANGE DAYS is one of the better news round-ups. UFO REALITY, Issue 7, April/June '97. I apologize for not getting this review done a week ago, but, hey, ya know. This is an all-glossy mag from England with a definite conspiracy angle. Every issue has had a good interview, and a plethora of pictures. In this one, Editor Jon King begins to discuss his own experiences. This issue is also bigger than ever before. The articles include: THE 19TH PARALLEL - MEXICO '97 by Robert LaMont; MIDWAY, an interview with UFO phtotographer Jose Escamillo; EARTH LIGHTS AND ALIENS by John Shreeve; and THE POLITICS OF UFOS by Dr. Colin Ridyard. That's only a taste, of course. There news section is also getting bigger. U.S. readers right to Orion Marketing, 1807 Cold Springs Road, Liverpool, NY, 13090. In England, it's PO Box 1998, Glastonbury, Somerset BA6 8YB. Tell 'em Bufo sent you, please! ONLINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, Patrick Huyghe interviews Loren Coleman about the "real" Men in Black. I've gone back and read Gray Barker's book that sort of started it all, THEY KNEW TOO MUCH ABOUT FLYING SAUCERS. That's where he kind of codified the mythology, although Keel certainly expanded it, among others. I'm reading Bender's book, FLYING SAUCERS AND THE THREE MEN, but it does read like contactee stuff almost, very first person and flowery, so far. Just getting started, though. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-8 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Starting July 1, will go to three hours a night! SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. Week of: 6/23/97 Episode #110R (repeat) Case #63-1136 The Hunter: are cattle mutilations being committed by a werewolf?; Case #96-9121 The Healer: a teen can heal...but will it hurt him? Week of:6/30/97 Episode #111R (repeat) Case #63-1136: The Curse: a cursed tomb!; Case #26-0122 Angel On A Plane: sort of like "God is my co-pilot" :) Saturday, June 28 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SF VORTEX ROSWELL SPECIAL 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP 3:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: GHOSTS, APPARITIONS, AND HAUNTED HOUSES Sunday, June 29 LOCAL RADIO, WRVA, RICHMOND VIRGINIA, 4:00 PM (Pacific...all times are Pacific): UFO show with guest Jason Leigh SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Art interviews Sarah Heinze, author of COMING FROM THE LIGHT, SPIRITUAL ACCOUNTS OF LIFE BEFORE LIFE* LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: 6:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, BUZZ: UFOs and Men in Black 7:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SF VORTEX ROSWELL SPECIAL 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052) Government cover-up of UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFOs; Highway 666 in New Mexico 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND 12:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: GHOSTS, APPARITIONS, AND HAUNTED HOUSES 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052) Government cover-up of UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFOs; Highway 666 in New Mexico 6:00 PM, TBS, SEARCHING FOR UFOS (this appears to be a new special, may feature Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY (see Books section) 7:00 PM, FOX, BEYOND BELIEF: new series...presents "real" paranormal cases, and phony ones, and you get to guess which ones are which 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SF VORTEX ROSWELL SPECIAL 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4052) Government cover-up of UFOs; psychics; bigfoot; Mexico City UFOs; Highway 666 in New Mexico Monday, June 30 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MEL'S HOLE (a so-called bottomless pit) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (pre-empted) 6:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, ROSWELL: COVER-UPS & CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (2 hour special) 9:30 PM, TBS, SEARCHING FOR UFOS (this appears to be a new special, may feature Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY (see Books section) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, ROSWELL: COVER-UPS & CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (2 hour special) Tuesday, July 1 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Gila Bend, Arizona, UFOs (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION; FENG SHUI 2:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, ROSWELL: COVER-UPS & CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (2 hour special) 7:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE DEEP OCEANS (may feature sea monsters, a bit hard to tell) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE DEEP OCEANS (may feature sea monsters, a bit hard to tell) Wednesday, July 2 SYNDICATED TV, MONTEL WILLIAMS (can't guarantee this is today): psychic Sylvia Browne. SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: WHO KILLED EUGENE IZZY? (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#15): SEANCES' DREAM THERAPY; THE GHOST & MRS. VIEWER (how to view ghosts at home) 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5065) Thursday, July 3 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: DEAD MEN TALKING (about "Electronic Voice Phenomena", in which disembodied voices come through on electronic equipment) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; GALACTIC HUMANS (people who believe they are not of Earthly origin) 6:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: ALIENS FROM MARS 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PREHISTORIC PUZZLES 10:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: SECRETS OF KARNAK Friday, July 4 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: PREHISTORIC PUZZLES 1:30 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES: special all-Roswell show 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, THE UFO INCIDENT. This is a must-see docudrama with James Earl Jones. It's based on the Betty and Barney Hill case, the first publicized abduction case. 6:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH, DEEP SECRETS (includes Bob Lazar, who got everybody interested in Area 51) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: REASON TO BELIEVE 8:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: GREAT BALLS OF LIGHT 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, THE UFO INCIDENT. This is a must-see docudrama with James Earl Jones. It's based on the Betty and Barney Hill case, the first publicized abduction case. 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE 10:00, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ROSWELL: This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:47:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:09:49 -0400 Subject: Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:56:23 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: EL/TST & Galleons... >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:04:28 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <"Greg Sandow"@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: EL/TST >>Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:48:59 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST >Jerry wrote: >>I believe your theory has tended to neglect the fact that many >>ufologists already mentally put these "nocturnal light" cases >>in a lesser category, in view of the fact that out of the multitude >>of cases in existence, they are _lesser detailed cases_, and >>by definition, concern amorphous, rather than, "visibly-structured" >>objects. Therefore, although your work is highly interesting >>and will probably help us become aware of certain natural phenomena >>that exist on and within our planet, its applications to UFO >>sightings per se are necessarily limited. >Yes, well, I don't see it quite this way. The fact remains that >LITS are the most common type of sighting. We have to ask ourselves >what the real status of the 'structured craft' is - that's the >point. I *know* that's what ETH ufologists are most interested >in, and that's why they demote LITS, but that is a psychological >preference, nothing to do with objectivity. It is in effect a >cultural factor with these people. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Paul, you are not exactly accurate here, and you did tell Greg "Thanks Greg. The devil is in the details, isn't he?" I submit the following in regard to the place of Nocturnal Lights in the grand scheme of things. It is important to remember that Hynek spent twenty years with Blue Book thinking about all this and eventually devising his classification system. Although he wasn't thinking about TST back then, and we certainly can further subdivide his original classifications, I believe the basic categories still hold true today. J.C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BRIEF SUMMARY of HYNEK CLASSIFICATIONS: Nocturnal lights: Strangely behaving lights in the night sky Daylight Discs: UFOs sighted in the daytime. Radar & Radar/visual sightings: Radar sightings and those with visual support CE l: Detailed sighting but no observable interaction with the witness or the environment. CE ll: UFO is observed interacting with the environment and frequently, the witness as well. CE lll: Basically a CE ll case where the UFO occupants make themselves known. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: To develop a perspective regarding EQLs and where they fit in regarding UFOs, I believe the following review of an analysis of the Air Force's twenty year collection of UFO reports is important. REVISED BLUE BOOK STATISTICS: The following quotes from: Hynek, J. Allen . The Hynek UFO Report . Chapt. 11 "The Air Force Numbers Game" . Dell Publishing Co, Inc. 1977 . . . The Revised Blue Book Statistics -- What Really Was Going On? A member of the staff of the Center for UFO Studies and I have comprehensively re-evaluated all the cases which comprise the ninety-four reels of microfilmed Project Blue Book records. Despite Blue Book's inadequate follow-up and investigation of the bulk of these cases, it was possible for us to form some sort of judgment as to whether or not the Air Force conclusions were, in each case, valid. In many cases we agreed with the Air Force--and in many we did not. So, let us now examine how things change when one grants the assumption that there may indeed be some sort of unidentified aerial phenomena, source and nature unknown, which may have been, for the most part, accurately reported by over sixteen thousand witnesses. ....snip.... J.C. Hynek lists the revised number of unidentifieds by year from 1947-69, totaling approximately 640. (Which worked out to about 5.8% unidentified after reexamination. Then he says... ....snip.... Now let us see what kind of UFOs we are dealing with. The reader is by now well acquainted with the classification scheme utilized in this book, and it is of interest to examine the 640 revised "Unknowns" to see how they divide themselves into these classes. TABLE 11.5 -- Types of Revised Unknowns Type Number % of Unknowns Nocturnal Lights................243................38% Daylight Discs..................271................42 Radar-Visual.....................29.................5 Radar............................10.................2 Close Encounters of the first kind................46.................7 Close Encounters of the second kind...............33.................5 Close Encounters of the third kind.................8.................1 What is extremely surprising here is the great number of Daylight Disc cases reported. These cases, from Blue Book files alone, and neglecting the wealth of information from the civilian UFO organizations around the world, involve many hundreds of witnesses, the majority of them with Air Force or some other technical background (sometimes scientific). It is rather surprising that Nocturnal Lights do not lead the list, as they do in most other studies. Less surprising is the fact that far fewer "high strangeness" cases were reported to the Air Force, or to be exact, reached the Blue Book desks.* A check of cases available in the open literature, not including the unpublished files of APRO and NICAP, show that, conservatively, at least five times as many high strangeness cases did not reach the Blue Book list as did (J.C. i.e. were recorded). Probably the figure is closer to ten times the cases than five. I surmise that the factor was larger in the late years of Blue Book because by that time the "all is nonsense" approach of the Air Force was well known and it had become clear to the general public that reporting strange UFO events to the Air Force was not only pointless as a serious scientific matter, but was apt to bring ridicule to the reporter. * We have ample evidence, not only from the reports received by the Center for UFO Studies, which is a relatively new organization, but from the two oldest civilian UFO fact-gathering organizations, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization and the National Investigations Committee for Aerial Phenomena, that a large number of "high strangeness" cases have, in fact, occurred-particularly Close Encounter cases of all three types. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - J.C. Please remember: a) Blue Book (the Air Force) had been skewing the results to reduce the number of unknowns. That is why the reanalysis was necessary. (Begin at the following address) Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.5 http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.5a.html b) Additionally, these were statistics for 1949-69. Blue Book closed in 1969, almost 30 years ago. There have been many well detailed, dramatic cases since that time including the FOIA documented 1975 SAC Base visits, Walton, Moody, Pascagoula, and Belgium NATO Military Encounter 1989/90, to name just a few. Paul, when one is appraised of the preceding, it becomes obvious that those claiming that TST and "generated helmet visions" are a "major solution" to UFOs are possibly not cognizant of this portion of the data, or if they are, they are ignoring it. Again, they are, at the moment, analyzing what Hynek felt was actually less than 38% of the unidentified cases (because of the number of high strangeness cases that never reached the Air Force) and the lesser detailed ones at that. But they are claiming that those cases cover a larger portion than they actually do. They have a long way to go to complete _that_ analysis properly. (And it must be done on a specific "case by case" basis. Generalities will not solve the problem or make it go away.) Serious UFO researchers are certainly open to this analysis, and actually welcome it, but only in this proper manner. Looking forward to your eventual comments on SKYTHING 1960 & Exeter and how they relate to your theories. You mentioned in a note to me that you don't have the time to comment on these specific cases and how your theories relate to them. This is certainly unfortunate for the reasons mentioned above. Again, those addresses are: Exeter 1/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-010.shtml Exeter 2/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-008.shtml SKYTHING 1960 is archived at: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.2.html Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If anyone else is interested, here are some additional Hynek comments on Nocturnal lights followed by a detailed look at his UFO classification system. . . . The following quote from Hynek, J. Allen . The UFO Experience . Henry Regnery Co. 1972 . Part II: The Data and the Problem . 5 Nocturnal Lights . . . REGARDING NOCTURNAL LIGHTS: It should be clearly understood that initial light-in-the-night-sky reports have a very low survival rate. An experienced investigator readily recognizes most of these for what they are: bright meteors, aircraft landing lights, balloons, planets, violently twinkling stars, searchlights, advertising lights on planes, refueling missions, etc. When one realizes the unfamiliarity of the general public with lights in the night sky of this variety, it is obvious why so many such UFO reports arise. Of course, such trivial cases do not satisfy the definition of UFO used in this book. ....... . . . The following quotes from: Hynek, J. Allen . The Hynek UFO Report . Chapt. 2 . Dell Publishing Co, Inc. 1977 HYNEK'S UFO CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM (in depth) -------------------------------------- A number of years ago I devised a simple classification system, much like an astronomer might use to classify different types of stars or a zoologist different types of beetles that he came across in his explorations. NOCTURNAL LIGHTS: Since the most frequently reported sighting are those of strangely behaving lights in the night sky, I called these simply, Nocturnal Lights. This doesn't include just any lights that puzzle the observer (many people are puzzled by bright planets, twinkling stars, and aircraft at night), but those which are truly puzzling, even to experts, because their behavior does not fit the pattern of lights from known sources. One must always keep in mind that the "U" in UFO simply means "unidentified" -- but unidentified to all, not just to the witnesses. (J.C. obviously an important point.) DAYLIGHT DISCS: Then there are the UFOs sighted in the daytime. Since the majority (but not all) of these have an oval shape and are often reported as metallic-looking, these are simply called Daylight Discs. Most UFO photographs made in the daytime portray such discs (see p. 95). It could be that Nocturnal Lights observed in the daytime would appear as Daylight Discs -- we don't know. But observationally the distinction is useful. RADAR & RADAR-VISUAL SIGHTINGS: A separate category is also needed for UFOs that are indicated by radar. An important subdivision in this category are radar findings that are supported by visual observations. If it can be established with reasonable assurance that a radar sighting confirms a visual sighting, or vice versa, then obviously this sighting is of major importance. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS: A broad category of utmost importance consists of those UFO sightings, regardless of type, that occur very close at hand, say within a few hundred feet, or at least close enough so that the witness is able to use his stereoscopic vision and discern considerable detail. These sightings are, so to speak, in the immediate reference frame of the observer -- they are not "someone else's UFO," but very much this observer's UFO, a sort of very personal UFO experience. I have termed this broad category of UFOs the Close Encounters. There are three obvious kinds of Close Encounters, and it will be helpful to define them separately. Again, the distinction lies in what is observed rather than in any certain fundamental difference. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE FIRST KIND (CE l) Here we have a close encounter with a UFO but there is no interaction of the UFO with either the witness or the environment, or at least none that is discernible. The encounter must be close enough, however, so that the UFO is in the observer's own frame of reference and he is able to see details. The chance, therefore, of this sighting being a misidentification of Venus or a conventional aircraft, etc., is quite small, particularly if the sighting is made by several persons. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE SECOND KIND (CE ll) Here the UFO is observed interacting with the environment and frequently with the witness as well. The interaction can be with inanimate matter, as when holes or rings are made on the ground, or with animate matter, as when animals are affected (sometimes becoming aware of the presence of the UFO even before human witnesses). People too, can be affected, as in the many reported cases of burns, temporary paralysis, nausea, conjunctivitis, etc. But in order for a CE-ll to have taken place, the presence of the UFO must be established at the same spot in which the physical effects are noted. That is, if a burnt ring on the ground is noted, it must be at the exact place where the UFO was sighted hovering, or if an automobile ignition system is interfered with, such interference must have occurred at the time and place of the UFO sighting. The observed physical effects in these cases (often called "physical trace cases") must not be explainable in some other obvious way. That is, if holes in the ground ("landing marks") are found, these marks must be unique, and not like marks found elsewhere in the vicinity. Close Encounters of the Second Kind are of particular interest to scientists who can, in a sense, bring the UFO "into the laboratory." Burnt grasses, samples of disturbed soil, etc., can be tested with a view toward determining what caused the burn, what pressures were necessary to produce the imprints on the ground, and to finding what chemical changes occurred in the soil samples by comparing the affected soil with control samples from the vicinity. To this day, no "piece" of an actual UFO has ever been authenticated but the effects of the presence of UFOs have been amply attested to. A catalogue of over eight hundred cases in which the UFO was both seen and left physical traces has been compiled by Mr. Ted Phillips* and the catalogue continues to grow. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (CE lll) Here there is not only a close encounter with the UFO, but with its apparent "occupants" or "UFOnauts." Close Encounters of the Third Kind bring us to grips with the most puzzling aspect of the UFO phenomenon: the apparent presence of intelligence other than our own, intelligence we can recognize but not understand. Hundreds of Close Encounters of the Third Kind have been reported all over the world in the past decades. A catalogue of over one thousand cases has been compiled by Bloecher; it, like other UFO catalogues, continues to grow. UFOs of other categories seem to demonstrate intelligent action. Certainly this action does not appear to be random, but seems almost programmed or planned. As reported, UFOs buzz airplanes and cars, prefer the lonely hours of the night, usually but by no means exclusively avoid crowds and urban areas, and make singularly "local" appearances rather than moving about a wide area of the country. In Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where the occupants make their presence known, we find reported creatures who resemble humans but are predominantly shorter and slimmer, capable of communication in their own way and on their own terms. Their interaction with humans has be reported to be largely impersonal, neither overtly friendly nor hostile. There have been instances, reported in all seriousness, of "abductions" of humans, ostensibly for "testing purposes." The details of such abductions have almost always been obtained through regressive hypnosis since it appears that the abduction experience, whatever its physical reality, has proved so traumatic to the witness or witnesses that the conscious memory retains only a mere skeleton of the total experience. The details must generally be obtained from the subconscious. Clearly, Close Encounters of the Third Kind hold the most fascination for us because they bring into focus most sharply our fear of the unknown, the concept of other intelligence in space, and the possibility of intelligent contact with such beings, with all that such contact might imply for the human race.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 BC 1947 From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:24:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:40:07 -0400 Subject: BC 1947 British Columbia had it's own share of sightings during the summer of 1947. We have just added a special anniversary section to our site.Come have a look at what went on in BC during " That Wonderful Year". Check back in the next week as we add more.Find us at http://www.ufobc.org AND YOU THOUGHT ALL THE ACTION WAS IN ROSWELL!!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 UFO ONLINE Update From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:20:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:45:41 -0400 Subject: UFO ONLINE Update I am proud to announce the availability of a new update: * new graphics * new images * new documents * a brand new searchable database of over 600 international UFO pictures (more databases to come soon) * and a lot of new additional stuff ! Here it is the URL address of the site: http://www.ufo.it If you never registered yourself via the UFO ONLINE Registration Form, please do that now. If you manage a UFO-related WWW site please check whether your site is listed in the huge "UFO Links" section. If not, please let me know as soon as possible, including title, shirt description and URL address of your address. It will be linked soon, as we are preparing a new completely updated version of that section. I strongly recommend you to visit UFO ONLINE once in three weeks at least. New updates have been scheduled at a faster pace than in the past. Unfortunately, we are able to send an e-mail to you just for major upgrades. Among the forthcomings documents, you'll find the complete (illustrated) "books" about Italian close encounter cases and trace cases. You'll be amazed. Please spread UFO ONLINE URL address out ! We need your help in order to promote this site and make it even better. If you have a WWW site, please link it up ! For any request or info, please contact me at: mauverga@tin.it Your Sincerely, Maurizio Verga Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (C.I.S.U.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 27 FEATURE/UFO photo tips focus on 'sightings' From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:52:24 -0400 Subject: FEATURE/UFO photo tips focus on 'sightings' --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: FEATURE/UFO photo tips focus on "sightings" Date: 97-06-27 07:23:20 EDT From: AOL News ST. LOUIS--(BUSINESS WIRE FEATURES)--June 27, 1997--Since there are many more "sightings" of UFO spaceships and aliens than there are clear, sharp photographs documenting their existence, CPI Photo and Fox Photo, a nationwide chain of photofinish retail stores which regularly features photo advice and tips on its Internet website at www.cpiphoto.com and www.foxphoto.com, offers tips designed to help amateur photographers, as well as government officials, take better photographs of UFOs and aliens. o Since UFO sightings are unpredictable, always have a camera ready and loaded with film. o Move in close, but not too close. Follow your camera's instructions. If it says don't get closer than 3 feet, don't, or you'll get fuzzy pictures. If your camera is equipped with a close-up lens, you'll be able to take big, sharp close-ups. o Shoot! Shoot! Shoot! Most great UFO pictures are lucky accidents. If you don't get that great shot the first time, it may happen a second or two later, so shoot a lot of pictures. o Try for eye contact. Aliens are curious - otherwise, why would they be here. If you make soft, subtle noises, tap or scratch the camera, they'll probably look for the source of the sound. o Use flash cautiously to reduce reflection around spaceships made of shiny substances. o For group shots of aliens, pose the tallest in the center for a more pleasing effect. o To avoid red eye in aliens, shoot at an angle or have alien look slightly away from the flash. o Keep backgrounds simple. Avoid clutter behind the UFO. A plain field, a dense hedge, and the sky are all good and will not detract from the subject. However, a single prop like an intergalactic lightsaber or droid are logical and can be included. They might even add interest. o Look for the focal point. UFO spaceships have many eye-catching elements, but don't try to include them all in one shot. The hardest part of making good pictures is eliminating non-essentials. o Store all film in lead-lined containers marked "Classified Information." o Have all photofinishing done at CPI Photo or Fox Photo stores, which are UFO certified. "We believe that following these simple and practical suggestions, people will be better prepared to document UFO sightings and avoid creating the kind of mystery and intrigue generated by the Roswell incident," said William Cronin, executive vice president of CPI Corp. The free Photo Tips for UFO spaceships and aliens are on the Internet at www.cpiphoto.com and www.foxphoto.com (as of 5 p.m., 6/27). Visitors to the site are invited to e-mail additional tips based on their own experiences or extraterrestrial research. CPI Photo and Fox Photo are owned and operated by Fox Photo, Inc., a joint venture of Eastman Kodak Company and CPI Corp. Headquartered in St. Louis, CPI Corp. (NYSE:CPY) also owns and operates approximately 1,000 Sears Portrait Studios in the U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico. CONTACT: Frankel Public Relations Robyn Frankel, 314/863-3373 e-mail: frankel@websitepr.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Jim Penniston of Bentwaters AFB on From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 20:52:24 UT Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:22:01 -0400 Subject: Jim Penniston of Bentwaters AFB on With the release of Larry Warren's version of the Bentwaters case as well as Wilson's claims regarding Project: Pounce, MSN's Project: watchfire decided to have Jim Penniston (security flight chief at Bentwaters AFB at the time of the incident) come back for a new chat to address these issues. The URL is http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire and the Interview is on Tuesday at 6pm, PT. Access is free but requires Internet Explorer and Netshow. Participants are encouraged to ask questions of Penniston and host AJS Rayl, formerly of Omni Magazine's Project:Open Book. Diana Botsford
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Senator Thurmond's Foreword Removed From Future From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:46:46 -0400 Subject: Senator Thurmond's Foreword Removed From Future --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Senator Thurmond's Foreword Removed From Future Printings of Simon & Schuster's Date: 97-06-27 13:39:56 EDT From: AOL News NEW YORK, June 27 /PRNewswire/ -- The Simon & Schuster publication "The Day After Roswell" by Philip J. Corso, includes a foreword written by The Honorable Strom Thurmond. Following publication, Senator Thurmond advised Simon & Schuster that he wrote the foreword for an altogether different book project that Mr. Corso had described to the Senator as personal memoirs of his career in military intelligence. Senator Thurmond informed Simon & Schuster that he did not know the subject matter or the actual contents of "The Day After Roswell" until they were described to him by reporters. Simon & Schuster and Philip J. Corso regret any impression created by this foreword's inclusion in The Day After Roswell that Senator Thurmond was aware of or approved the book's subject matter or contents. Unfortunately, Simon & Schuster did not become aware of this mistake until after books had already been shipped to our customers. No future printing of The Day After Roswell will include this foreword. CO: Simon & Schuster; Pocket Books ST: New York, District of Columbia IN: PUB SU: PDT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 ABC's "This Week" From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:55:57 -0400 Subject: ABC's "This Week" ON Sunday. Check Local Listings. ABC's "This Week" - Topics: The Brady gun law - what next? and Roswell - case closed? Guests: Sarah Brady of Handgun Control Inc., Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association and former Air Force Capt. Jim McAndrew. == It didn't take Capt. McAndrew long to retire after the books publication. Didn't Weaver do the same thing? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Hot Damn! Something _Not_ to be Missed..... From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:15:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:59:26 -0400 Subject: Hot Damn! Something _Not_ to be Missed..... Hello Updaters, This is a follow-up to my previous post promising a preview of a UFO exhibit that is to be on display during the Roswell Extravaganza 97. My original attempt at RealVideo was a complete failure. The frame rate was too low and didn't show enough. I have updated the video clip to a higher frame rate and it now shows a little bit more. You can view this updated version at http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/roswell_exhibit.ram I have also included an article from one of our local newspapers that details this project. ********************************************************************** SOURCE: Ft.Worth Telegram By John Austin - Star Telegram Staff Writer 6/27/97 From planet Latex UFO-compatible creatures in Arlington pack bags for New Mexico's open spaces ARLINGTION - Naked, four-fingered aliens with green innards were sighted yesterday on Division Street, but they won't be staying long. The gray aliens, their wrecked spacecraft and three truckloads of related gear head this weekend for New Mexico, where the whole display will be part of next week's big Roswell UFO Encounter '97. The July 1-6 event, which is generating a spate of media attention, including a recent Time magazine cover, marks the 50th anniversary of what many believe was a crash os a spacecraft and alien encounter in 1947. An Air Force report denied the extraterrestrial theory, and said the so-called dead aliens found on the scene were crash-test dummies, send aloft by the government. The Arlington artisans in charge of creating the "Hanger 18" display don't buy the E.T. theory either, but they're doing an out-of- this-world job of recreating a scene that will give visitors a peek at what it might have been like to walk through the Air Force's Hangar 18 shortly after they recovered the purported alien remains and brought them in for a field autopsy. "My client is the City of Roswell," said John F. Hopkins, 36, owner of Arlington's Le Theatre de Marionette production company. "It's our idea. It's their money." The city is paying for the $25,000 project, Hopkins said. "It's kind of like a haunted house, but alien-themed," said Joe Vargas of Roswell's parks and recreation department, referring to Hopkin's recreation. "It's just a theme to generate more tourism." The display should complement Roswell's UFO Encounter trade show - a perfect one-stop shopping opportunity for someone who might need a new pair of alien shoes, want to see a gigantic, muscle-bound inflatable alien or confront aliens in virtual reality - nicely, Vargas said. "Last year we did about 15 sky-diving, glow-in-the-dark aliens," he said. "We had aliens on Jet Skis." Constructing the setup, which includes an Air Force autopsy room, wreckage display, debriefing/decomtamination area and guard station, has kept Hopkins' seven-person crew moving at warp speed for three weeks, molding latex, slicing foam and breathing acetone fumes. There will be period newspapers strewn across the autopsy, official looking forms and scads of other stuff that comes under the heading of what Hopkins and staff artist Shane Johnson call "nernies." Nernies are nondescript odds and ends, such as medical gear, faked labels and documents that give the scene a realistic feel. "We just kind of nernie it up," he said. "Radiation suits, bombs, rifles..." New Mexico National Guardsmen in surplus Air Force fatigues will man the whole thing, and the soft latex aliens will be wired to twitch spasmodically on the autopsy table. "We're gonna give 'em a few scares and jolts," said Hopkins, a Bowie High School graduate and University of Texas at Arlington theater department alumnus who has made a career of designing theatrical puppets and haunted houses. Vargas said he hopes the hangar will generate around 10,000 customers paying $3 to $4 each. If it's a hit, they'll keep it. Hopkins will bring it back and use the display as a Halloween attraction if they don't. Meanwhile, he has just one more wish. If there are any extraterrestrials out there, he said, " I wish they'd arrange transportation to get his stuff out there. **********************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Postcard from Cyberspace From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 02:07:55 -0400 Subject: Postcard from Cyberspace From the L.A. Times web site, more sites to visit (or not) if you want to buy a T-shirt to read more about Roswell events. ****************************************** Los Angeles Times Monday, June 23, 1997 POSTCARD FROM CYBERSPACE / TERRY SCHWADRON Alien Encounters of the Net Kind By TERRY SCHWADRON I'll admit it. I haven't decided for sure whether aliens crashed 50 years ago in the desert outside Roswell, N.M. Then again, I don't worry about it too much. Why interplanetary travelers would pick such a spot is beyond me, but for lots of folks, the question seems consuming. Next month, thousands of people are expected to descend on Roswell for a celebration and quasi-scientific debate over exactly what did happen half a century ago. Whatever you want to believe, be sure of this: You can find supporting evidence on the Web. There are several sites questioning whether a large dent in the ground was caused by an out-of-control weather balloon or a misguided spacecraft, whether a quartet of extraterrestrials were inside and later autopsied and whether the government is covering it all up. The Web is the perfect forum for the believe-it-or-not quality of the Roswell debate. For the casual visitor, facts may matter less than presentation; the story may have to be sort-of-true-enough to support the sales of UFO-related paraphernalia and excitement. I am pretty certain that these sites are assembled by earthbound terrestrials who want to control your personal computer. Here's a rundown of some of what you might find: Perhaps you can avoid my mistake. I started at the Popular Science site (http://www.popsci.com), thinking that the magazine-sponsored site would probably have a solid and fun presentation. I was right, with one exception. The magazine's Web Roswell special report has been turned into a game--an intelligent, informative scavenger hunt--that actually demands that we know some of the significant or silly facts about the event. The presentation was great, but only a real fan of the debate could possibly know the answers. A survey about whether I would agree to join aliens on a romp through interplanetary space was easier to handle. Instead, I pressed my Web controls and moved--admittedly at something less than warp speed--to a site calling itself the Roswell Incident site (http://www.roswell.org). It looked quite official, and in most serious tones, the site walks visitors through all of the evidence, testimony, myths and counterclaims of alien invasions. Not to spoil things for you, but these are folks who don't believe. Within the site is a copy of the definitive 1995 Government Accounting Office Report on Roswell (http://www.roswell.org/gao.html), ordered by Rep. Steven H. Shiff (R-N.M.) who wanted to find if the government had covered up the Roswell events. The report itself is pretty plain by Web standards, all text and no fun. But the hard-core fan of the debate will probably appreciate its many juicy tidbits. Several entertainment sites weigh in, among them Hollywood On-Line, http://www.hollywood.com/holiday/roswell/html which is owned by The Times. There is absolutely no information about Roswell, but there are recommendations about good UFO-type movies. Others offering Roswell links are http://www.id4movie.com for the "Independence Day" movie site and http://www.marsattacks.com for the movie of similar name. At an Air Force links site http://www.af.mil/navigate one can do a site search for Roswell information and retrieve some original Roswell Army Air Field documents about the New Mexico brouhaha. By now, I was having trouble believing in any government documents. By contrast, I loved visiting a site at http://www.sierra-vista.com/roswell, which came complete with java applets carrying the 50-year-old news from the Roswell Daily Record across the bottom of the screen as if it were breaking news, along with some well-executed graphics and music. This site provided links to various documents and commentary, and was the first of several sites I visited to offer the chance to buy a memento of the occasion. A site called Eyes on the Sky http://www.aracnet.com/~eyessky/maindcs/roshirts.htm skipped content about interplanetary life altogether, and went right to the T-shirt sales. I must admit, they were good, with aliens and characters from the various Roswell stories in almost every combination. Sites at http://www.image50.com/ufo and http://www.futureone.com/~alien/giftshop.html followed suit with retailing as the main event. The former offers certified, authentic soil from the crash site. An area calling itself the Roswell Autopsy Film site http://www.execpc.com/~vjentpr/jroswell has lots of anonymous analysis of photographs and films taken in and around Roswell to argue that something happened. For the basic UFO aficionado, there is a plethora of space-wandering sites. I'd start at UFO Resources http://www.newageinfo.com/res/ufo.htm which has enough link information to hold reader attention until ET gets home. For the record, the government's 1995 conclusion was that the investigating Air Force officer is "100% sure that the Roswell sightings are a hoax." Of course, the next thing the government will be telling us is that the Internet may be harmful to our health. * * * Terry Schwadron is editor of Life & Style. He can be reached via e-mail at terry.schwadron@latimes.com Copyright Los Angeles Times Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 'Dummies' Toronto Star Editorial Page Cartoon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Bon Voyage Fearless [B]Leader From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:04:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:44:00 -0400 Subject: Bon Voyage Fearless [B]Leader Hi Errol & Sue, hi All, Errol will be closing down the UpDates list temporarily for the trip to Roswell. I hope to get an opportunity to meet some of the members of our list there, and also I wanted to wish Errol & Sue a safe trip and a fun (well earned) vacation. I'm planning to follow Errol around for three days like the old villager in the Peter Sellers movie, "After the Fox" going, "I wan ta be innada movie, I wan ta be innada movie!" <G> Hope to see some of you guys there! *Ms.Schatte, could you please have a cold one waiting for me Thursday! <VBG> John Velez, aka Zaphod Beeblebrox, Interstellar By-pass & Superhighway Engineer. "Looks like we'll have to demolish the Earth. It's just in the way!" <G> * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 1947 Roswell News Report? From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 23:44:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:51:43 -0400 Subject: 1947 Roswell News Report? Hello Everyone! I am new to the list, so bear with me. I am wanting to know two things. 1) Does anyone know where I can get a transcript of the Roswell News story th at contains the original press release about the 'flying disk' ? Even a link to a page that has a transcript of it is OK. 2) Also, does anyone know if the U.S. Airforce Academy's old section of UFOs is still available in print anywhere? THANKS IN ADVANCE! Desiree - snake@mwaz.com URL - http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8 701/ufo.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Mars-probe pictures 'explained' by RSSI/IKI From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 12:54:57 +0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:02:33 -0400 Subject: Mars-probe pictures 'explained' by RSSI/IKI ALEXEY KUZMIN AT RSSI/IKI ANSWERS WUFOC In my quest for answers to the akwardness=20 surrounding the two Mars-probes that the USSR=20 had taking pictures of Mars, an its two Moons, and some strange cigarr-shaped shadows=20 a.s.o. at the end of the 80's, where finally=20 one probe mysteriously disappeared, finally led=20 me to the man that was responsable to handling=20 of the information during the mission. At the RSSI department of High Energy Astrophysics department=20 at the IKI, Moscow, I found - Alexey Kuzmin.=20 By <A HREF=3D"mailto: west@wufoc.com">Jorgen Westman.</A> >>>Picture1 - the shadow<<< Alexey Kuzmin was responsable of the process=20 with photo-information that was gathered in 1988 during=20 the "Phobos International Space Project", that later has=20 been used as support by conspiracy-followers to the idea=20 of previous/still life on Mars. A number of TV-shows were=20 produced in Russia about Alexey Kuzmin and the Phobus- project, but none of these managed to cross the western=20 border.=20 I started out by asking Alexey Kuzmin how the cigarr- shaped shadow=20 http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/kuz_uk.html (See Picture) did appear. This picture was taken by the Phobus-2 probe=20 just before groundcontrol lost contact with it and it was=20 lost. Alexey speaks, almost, fluent English, so I have kept=20 his words intact.=20 =AD The cigar shape shadow is the probe shadow on the Martian surface. It has such shape and size because of the scanning mode of the instrument produced by. The instrument is the scanner with the slow scanning rate and it scans the surface with using a probe moving. Therefore the cigare is so big.=20 =AD Most of the people consider the Phobos-2 was lost because=20 of the mistake in the control and because of imperfect=20 intellegence of the on-board computer. I think the same.=20 But there are the persons who consider the probe was lost=20 because of UFO influence. There is no complete conclusion.=20 Who belived that a UFO was the reason to the loss of the=20 Phobus-2 probe?=20 =AD I don't know the belivers in UFO around Mars in IKI,=20 there were the guys, but they are not in IKI now. >>>Picture 2 - "the pole" by Dejmos.<<< So what about the pole-shaped object by the other Mars-moon Dejmos? http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/kuz_uk.html (see picture) =AD I have an explanation to your picture with Phobos, because it's me who produce it. The light vertical line is a defect of CCD matrix - the sensor for the used TV system. One bright point is the hot pixel the CCD element with the wrong sensetivity. The other bright dot could be Dejmos (the scientists calculate it should be somethere at this place).=20 =AD I have no explanations for the other strange effects,=20 it could be artificial UFO, but they can be the other kind=20 of things. The situation in IKI (our institute) is difficult=20 enouth (as well as for the whole space research in Russia)=20 to work on the problems without the cocrect results. Some=20 of Russian probes were lost in the Earth orbit without=20 detailed explanation, but it's normal for the incidents with the complex devices. >>>Cydonia<<< In the USA there is a man named Richard C. Hoagland=20 who claims, in lectures and books, that there are=20 artificial structures on Mars. Have you heard of him=20 or the issue?=20 =AD I didn't heard about C. Hoagland book before,=20 I'll try to get it via Internet!=20 Have the USSR/Russia taken any pictures of the=20 Cydonia-area on Mars?=20 =AD Not that I know of.=20 End of article. This is a news telegram from the incident:=20 THE FOLLOWING NEWS ITEM APPEARED ON AP (ASSOCIATED PRESS) AT 4:41 PM EST MARCH 30, 1989:=20 "SOVIET RESEARCH CENTERS ARE NOW TRYING TO INTERPRET SO FAR 'UNEXPLAINED OPTICAL PHONOMENA' ON THE PICTURES OF THE MARTIAN SURFACE. THE PICTURES SHOW AN INIGMATIC STRIP 23-25 MILES WIDE AND A LARGE SPINDLE-SHAPED FORMATION."=20 According to NASA liason spokepersons in Moscow,=20 the Soviets had not turned on their camera and WERE=20 NOT even taking pictures of the Martian surface. This=20 is the information which was relayed only a few weeks=20 ago. AP also stated that the Soviet news program "Vremya"=20 showed a detailed map of Mars "compiled from photos taken=20 during the mission." It DOES now appear that the Soviets=20 WERE taking pictures and furthermore, it looks like they may have found something in those photographs which is=20 quite interesting. This article and others can be found in the free UFO- Magazine "Narkontakt", at: <A HREF=3D" http://www.wufoc.com ">www.wufoc.com</A>=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 DISPATCH #58 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:59:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:41:42 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #58 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #58 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 6/28/97 Quote of the Week "Probably in another decade, another colonel will be out here explaining this thing again.'' -- Defense Department Spokesmen Ken Bacon (who apparently has irony-poor blood) commenting on the Air Force's "Case Closed" report issued earlier this week seeking to end speculation about the Roswell Incident. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "A Lick of 'Sence'" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, Fabre lambastes us for jamming his printer with one of our articles. Enjoy! "Hello,I was printing your article on "Order of skull and bones". My printer is now stuck!!,paper is half in,half out,I don't find this amusing in any respect.Can you please respond as soon as possible,as the trouble did't originate from my end.Hope someone with a lick of sence replys Great website inspite." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Featured Chats: UFO Experts Invade Grassy Knoll During our special cybercast July 3 - 5 from the Roswell UFO Festival, ParaScope is pleased to announce that a stellar array of UFO experts, personalities and commentators will be stopping by the Grassy Knoll on AOL to chat with the world. Though our line-up is subject to change, current plans call for us to play host to Robert O. Dean, Michael Lindemann, Dr. John Mack, Rod Skenandore, Bud Hopkins, Stanton Friedman, Donald Schmitt and Linda Moulton Howe throughout the festival. Watch for details on the guests, the cybercast and everything else Roswell related as we approach the big event. Also, join us in the Crop Circle, ParaScope's web-based chat room every Saturday night at 9pm ET for great times and good conversation. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A&E Network Broadcasts "Conspiracies" June 29 A reminder to everyone that a two-hour documentary, "Conspiracy," will feature a number of authors, experts and pundits in the field discussing everything from JFK to LSD. "Conspiracies" airs on the A&E cable network Sunday, June 29 at 9pm on the east coast, 9pm on the west coast. Central and Mountain viewers, sadly, will have to consult their local listings. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! ParaScope is on the road and headed for Roswell, New Mexico to cover the 50th anniversary of the Roswell Incident. We'll be cybercasting live from the middle of all the action as we create a "tent city" in the middle of Roswell, camping out and burning the midnight oil to bring you all the action. This week, we present he greatest round-up of Roswell-related stories on the web as we gather classic Roswell stories from our archives and add plenty of new Roswell material during the live event. But don't worry, we'll continue bringing you plenty of great other stories on both our AOL and web sites. Catch all these stories right now on the home page of our web site or at keyword: roswell on AOL: Why Roswell Won't Go Away Kevin Randle won't let Roswell die. And he's just the man to keep it alive -- although some may view him as a desperate paramedic who won't give up on a patient already gone cold. Find out why this veteran ufologist still believes an alien craft crashed in New Mexico. ------------------ The 1995 Air Force Roswell Report Something crashed near Roswell and was recovered by military authorities in 1947. In its 1995 report on the incident, the Air Force asserts that it wasn't an alien spacecraft at all, but rather a top secret balloon project named MOGUL. ------------------ GAO Report on Roswell Documents Feeling that he was "getting the runaround" in his quest for information, Rep. Steven Schiff asked the General Accounting Office to prepare a report on the status of government documents relating to the Roswell Incident. Find out what the GAO uncovered. ------------------ The Berlin Memorandum The Roswell Incident was more than a crashed string of balloons made out of balsa wood and flower-painted tape. That's what Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg of the International Roswell Initiative believe, and they want you to sign onto the Berlin Memorandum. ------------------ Karl Pflock on Roswell Karl Pflock has a bone to pick with Stanton Friedman. In this open letter, Pflock carpet-bombs Friedman for what he described as "grossly misrepresenting" his views on the Roswell Incident. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Magazine Still Reports Paranomal From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 12:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:43:29 -0400 Subject: Magazine Still Reports Paranomal --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Magazine Still Reports Paranomal Date: 97-06-28 02:28:02 EDT From: AOL News c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By MELISSA MATCZAK ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) - UFO buffs take note: If the alien anniversary at Roswell, N.M., next week isn't enough, there's a paranormal publication that promises true reports of the strange and the unknown. You name it, and FATE has it: teen-age ghostbusters, New Mexican dirt eaters, Tahitian firewalkers and a psychic cat named Alice. The magazine rides on the success of paranormal-related TV programs like ``The X-Files'' and ``Millennium.'' Yet FATE, which dubbed itself ``The World's Leading Magazine of the Paranormal,'' isn't a new phenomenon. It began 49 years ago, the year after a spacecraft supposedly crashed in New Mexico and sparked the interest in alien sightings. Now, the monthly magazine sells about 65,000 copies of each issue through subscriptions, and another 8,000 from newsstands. Editor in Chief Terry O'Neill said the average reader is female, age 50 and older, with some post-secondary education. ``A lot of our readers are people who are simply curious,'' she said. Like many magazines, FATE includes letters to the editor, book reviews, and a horoscope. The rest is divided among columns written by experts on ``ufology,'' alternative religions, paranormal investigation and the like. Readers are encouraged to contribute, and get $25 for their personal paranormal experiences. That's why the magazine has been around for close to a half century, said associate editor Frank Spaeth. ``Everybody has had an unusual experience,'' he said. ``There's some comfort in realizing you're not alone.'' Of course, there are skeptics. ``I don't believe much of anything I read in there,'' said Barry Karr, executive director of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. O'Neill said the magazine doesn't pretend to be a scientific publication, although editors will reject stories that seem too crazy to be true. ``We make judgment calls,'' she said. ``What can you do to prove that you've seen a ghost?'' AP-NY-06-28-97 0219EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Have aliens landed in Moray? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:39:10 -0400 Subject: Have aliens landed in Moray? SOURCE: Toronto Globe and Mail - p.D4 DATE: JUNE 28, 1997 SECTION: The Local Story Scotland: Have aliens landed in Moray? Everybody has heard of corn circles, but it now appears that "aliens" have decided to make their mark on the heather slopes. Intricate patterns were spotted recently on the hills near Rothes by a pilot from the nearby Highland Gliding Club Visible only from the air, the patterns include human and animal forms and geometric images cut into the heather. Investigations by The Northern Scot this week have revealed that Moray is not about to hit the world headlines with proven alien markings. The explanation. it appears, is much more mundane. Due to the proximity of trees the managers of the moorland agreed that it was too dangerous to continue heather burning. Instead, the old heather is being topped by a tractor-drawn machine to provide new growth for the grouse population. Normal methods of burning and cutting of old heather leave large tracts of bare ground on which the heather gradually regenerates. During that time birds feeding on the young growth out on the bare patches find themselves well away from protective cover when predators appear. In an experiment to provide accessible cover the contractor involved has cut patterns which always allow feeding grouse to be within easy range of deep heather. -The Northern Soot (Elgin) Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 Mind over robots From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:41:27 -0400 Subject: Mind over robots SOURCE: Toronto Globe and Mail DATE: June 28, 1997 SECTION: Mind & Matter by Geoff Olson Leaving Las Vegas with gamblers' dream unresolved PRINCETON University scientist Brenda J. Dunne is showing a film in which a squat little robot on three wheels meanders haphazardly across a table, its movements controlled by a ran- dom-event generator. We are at the annual meeting of the Society for Scientific Explo- ration, a convocation of lettered scholars that this year gathered in a Las Vegas hotel to examine phenomena on the fringe- UFOs, parapsychology, alternative medical practices, and the like. Professor Dunne's R2D2-style robot is the centrepiece of a series of experiments de- signed to study what researchers call "hu- man/machine anomalies. Stated simply the focus of the work is to determine whether human subjects can affect the movements of a mechanical device-push- ing it toward them or away - merely through concentration. "It's controversial, it's true,' says Prof. Dunne, of Princeton University's Engi- neering Anomalies Research lab (PEAR). "I think doing the work at Princeton makes people pay attention a little bit more than if it was done somewhere else." Her co-re- searcher,-Robert Jahn, formed the lab in 1979 when he was dean of engineering to re- search the role of consciousness in the physical world. In their experiments, human subjects at- tempt to influence the behaviour of a vari- ety of devices. The researchers say half a million test runs show ' unmistakable evi- dence" that machines can be affected by what is believed to be human consciousness -or, as PEAR itself puts it: an extremely minute, but statistically measurable, ability of the mind to skew the output of electronic number generators and other devices." It sounds spooky, in a dry, academic way. Prof. Dunne's recent work with the robot was inspired by another researcher's efforts to detect animal/machine anomalies. A randomly moving robot was introduced to newly hatched baby chicks, who im- printed on the device. The birds were set in a mesh enclosure in a corner of a room and the robot was left to ramble. The goal of the experiment was to determine .whether the chicks' emotional link with their cybermother would influence the robot to stay closer to them. The results suggested overwhelmingly that the chicks did have some effect on the machine. "We don't even use the word psychoki- nesis, one reason being that the word has a lot of negative connotations-it's New Agey," says Prof. Dunne. We just speak of human/machine anomalies." She adds that the "psycho" part of psychokinesis is problematic in itself, and that "kinesis means an energy or force of some sort, and we're certainly not dealing with an energy of any sort that we currently know." Prof. Jahn, who also attended the Las Vegas conference, says data from 13 sepa- rate experiments over 11 years suggest that you're looking at less than a part in a trillion" of the results being due to chance alone. "That is overwhelming," he says. There are even gender effects: Women do better than men in influencing machines. The purported phenomenon has a real- world side. If mind can influence machine, then it raises real issues for sensitive elec- tronic controls in aircraft. There are also the commercial possibilities: At the PEAR Inc. Web page (http:llwww.pearinc.comI xpost-sc.html), for example, you can down- load ShapeChanger software for just $24.95. The program tests your power with human/machine anomalies on your home computer: The object is to will" one pre- selected image to appear on your monitor instead of another. The research has drawn its share of skepticism. And there's no doubt that con- clusive proof of human/machine interac- tions would have the potential of being a materialist's worst nightmare: that con- sciousness and cosmos are inextricable. It's like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Prin- ciple -- that the act of observation changes what is being observed-with a vengeance. Prof. Jahn regards his work as having the potential to offer a new understanding of the workings of the material world: "This is the real excitement, I think to us, that we're not just looking at cute little anomalies or aberrations within the field of human/machine interactions. We're see- ing the floating debris, if you will, that presages a much more substantial overall concept of science to include subjective di- mensions as well as objective dimensions. Does the theory offer hope for gamblers longing to beat the odds in Las Vegas? '"Gamblers throughout history have be- lieved they could affect the outcome of a random process like rolling dice or shuf- fling cards," Prof. Dunne wrote in 1992. "The phenomenon we're measuring is a lot more subtle, but it's the same idea and we've measured it in the laboratory." But it shows itself only after many thousands of trials, and the deviations aren't enough to break casinos. Not unex- pectedly, I saw no one from the conference at the gaming tables or slot machines. Geoff Olson writes on science-related contro- versies for The Vancouver Courier. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 *** CANADIAN X-FILE INDEX 175-200 From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:46:33 -0400 Subject: *** CANADIAN X-FILE INDEX 175-200 Here is the next installment of the index for RG24v17984, 940-5-1. As soon as I have the first group done (about 305 documents) I will look into having the entire group transfered, photocopied and made available. I have the first one hundred copied so far. If you are missing parts of the index #001 to 200, e-mail me and I'll send you the complete index, thus far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any ERRORS, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) DOCUMENTS 000150 to 000175 AS AT JUNE 16, 1997 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 175 03/15/54 S/L Campbell, CAS To: Iberville, Quebec Re: UFO Report sent (In French) 176 01/15/54 Garrfau, Bourgogne Republicaine, Dijon, France To: Service of Press, Air Ministry, Ottawa Re: UFO information for Newspaper Story UFO, SURREY, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 11/27/53: 177 01/06/54 F/L Coupland for Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Director of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board, Department of Defence, Ottawa Re: Forwarded UFO Report from Air Defence Command 178 12/30/53 Squadron Leader Campbell for Air Officer Command, Air Defence Comm and To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, RCAF Station, Sea Island, November 27, 1953 179 12/01/53 New Westminster, British Columbia To: Officer in Charge, RCAF Station, Sea Island, Vancouver, B.C. Re: UFO Report, Surrey, BC, Silver Disc, 11/27/53 180 12/01/53 (Page Two) 181 (NoDate) F/O Taylor Commanding Officer, RCAF Station, Sea Island, B.C. To: Group Commander, Air Defence Group, Vancouver, B.C. Re: UFO Report, Surrey, BC, Silver Disc, 11/27/53 UFO, PERTH, ONTARIO, 12/11/53 182 12/29/53 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 183 12/22/53 Perth, Ontario (Hand Written) To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 12/11/53 184 12/22/53 (Page Two) 185 01/06/54 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Perth UFO Report 186 01/11/54 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Perth, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report UFO, WELLAND, ONTARIO: 187 12/29/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Report, Welland, Ontario UFOS, JASPER, MERRIKVILLE, SMITH FALLS, ONTARIO, 12/11/53: 188 12/17/53 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 188b 12/23/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Reports: 1) Jasper, Ontario 2) Merrickville, Ontario 3) Smith Falls, Ontario 189 12/22/53 Squadron Leader, Dyell for Chief Air Staff To: Jasper, Ontario Re: Acknowledge UFO Report 190 12/15/53 Jasper, Ontario (Hand Written) To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO Report 12/11/53 191 12/15/53 (Page Two) 192 12/16/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket, S940-105 350A 193 12/16/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Reports: 1) Jasper, Ontario S940-105 TD 351 2) Merrickville, Ontario S940-105 TD 350A 3) Smith Falls, Ontario 194 12/22/53 Squadron Leader, Dyell for Chief Air Staff To: Jasper, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report 195 12/14/53 Merrikville, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Sighting 12/11/53 196 12/14/53 (Page Two) 197 12/14/53 (Envelope) UFO, WELLAND, ONTARIO, 12/10/53 198 12/14/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket, S940-105 350 199 12/29/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Welland, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report 12/12/53 200 12/29/53 Flight Lieutenant for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, Welland, Ontario 201 12/16/53 Welland, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 12/10/53 ---------------------- TO BE CONTINUED --------------------- .-----------------------------------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Road, East, London, Ontario, Canada, N6E-3B3 | | Computer/Internet Consultant CUFORN: http://cron-2.mco.net/web/cuforn | | Marketing Consultant MUFON: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jun > Jun 28 UFO UpDates Off-Line until after Midnight July 13th From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:57:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:57:45 -0400 Subject: UFO UpDates Off-Line until after Midnight July 13th The lure of Roswell & Grand Rapids beckon and this List posts its last message until after Midnight July 13th. 18 months non-stop. We will however be posting reports from Roswell to the UpDates Archive as frequently as nescessary, to keep our fingers active and as a service to subscribers here and lurkers there. There's much to catch on tv in the next couple of weeks - Mars, MIR and the shuttle launch and the goings on in around Roswsell. Soon, Errol