UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 12 Volume 2, Number 26, June 29, 1997 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:50:26 -0400 Subject: Volume 2, Number 26, June 29, 1997 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 26 June 29, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor USAF SAYS ROSWELL ALIENS WERE ONLY "TEST DUMMIES" On Tuesday, June 24, 1997, the 50th anniversary of the Kenneth Arnold "flying saucer" sighting, the U.S. Air Force released a new report on the Roswell incident. In its 231-page document, "The Roswell Report--Case Closed," the Air Force stated that it had "found no evidence whatsoever of flying saucers, space aliens or sinister government coverups." The new report is "a followup to a 1,000-page 1994 study" which claimed that "debris found in 1947 came from the crash of an Air Force (Project Mogul) balloon that was monitoring the atmosphere for evidence of Soviet nuclear tests." "The Tuesday report was designed to answer...what Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall called 'a complete and open explanation.' It said that as many as 67 life- sized dummies were dropped over New Mexico by high- altitude balloons between 1954 and 1959 to measure the impact of parachute falls on pilots." "The report suggested (Roswell) witnesses confused memories of the 1947 crash with the 1950s dummies." (See USA Today for June 25, 1997, page 3A.) GIANT V-SHAPED UFO SEEN NEAR LAS VEGAS, NEVADA While U.S. Air Force officials were busily debunking the 1947 Roswell case, several UFO incidents took place in the southwestern United States. The first of these took place at 9:30 p.m. on Monday, June 23, 1997, near Las Vegas, Nevada. According to the AP report, Las Vegas Metro Police received "quite a few calls" from residents, who reported a giant wedge-shaped or V-shaped UFO northwest of the city, near Area 51. "A police dispatcher who declined to give her name said she and other family members spotted the mysterious object hovering in the sky about 9:30 p.m." "'It was like a pyramid or a V-shaped wedge, with pulsating yellow lights,' the dispatcher told the Associated Press. "It split up; then it came back together. 'We got quite a few calls on it. From all reports, it was something similar to what was seen over Phoenix'" on March 13, 1997. "'It looked like they took the lights of a football field and put them way up in the sky,' said the dispatcher's neice, who also requested anonymity. The woman said she has never witnessed such a display in the 37 years she has lived in Las Vegas. She said her husband and three children witnessed the lights, as well. 'They were these huge round lights, like they were in formation,' she said, 'They were in a wide V-shape and they broke up and disappeared.'" (See the Las Vegas Review-Journal for June 24, 1997. Many thanks to Jared Anderson and Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding the AP story.) DAYLIGHT DISC TOUCHES DOWN ON AN ARIZONA MOUNTAIN On Monday, June 23, 1997, Arizona ufologist Tom King and his brother, Rob, were driving back to Phoenix from Tucson, when Tom suddenly spotted a glimmer in the Sierra Estrella mountains, just west of Bapchule (population 380). "I saw a strange object on the side of a mountain peak," Tom reported. "I pointed this out to my brother Rob, and we watched it for ten minutes. It seemed to pulse, and after viewing it for some time, we ruled out a car next to the peak, or someone holding up a large mirror reflecting the sun. What we saw was a metal object. The mountain was over 20 miles (32 kilometers) away from our position." "After 10 minutes of watching it...the object suddenly vanished, only to reappear one minute later on another part of the mountain," he reported. "It moved over four miles in one minute...At this point we were kicking ourselves in the ass for not bringing a videocamera to work." "We lost sight of it as another mountain blocked our view for 10 minutes...As the (first) mountain came back into view again, the object was gone. I realized we were looking at the Estrella Mountains...part of the Gila River Indian Reservation." On March 13, 1997, Tom videotaped several glowing orange-sphere UFOs as they hovered above the Sierra Estrella range, which, he adds, "have been a hot spot for seeing UFOs for the past three years." "Now these damn Hockey Pucks (UFOs) have us climbing mountains, looking for them," Tom commented. "What's next?" (Editor's Comment: The late Al Jolson said it best, Tom. "You ain't seen nothin' yet, folks!") UFO SIGHTINGS ARE ON THE RISE IN COLORADO UFO sightings are on the upswing in Colorado's San Luis Valley, with much activity taking place in Chaffee County. On Monday, June 9, 1997, at 4:50 p.m., rancher Jim Roberts and his son, Jeff, spied a silvery disc "moving into a thunderhead cloud" near tiny Howard, Colorado (population 55). The men snapped a photo of the UFO. "The picture shows a slight outline of what may be a disc. It's hard to tell." Four hours later, at 8:50 p.m., the Roberts men took a second photo of "a yellowish-white globe hovering over the treeline and foothills to the northwest. Moving zigzag at times and hovering. Still (photo) shows a bright white globe about half the size of the full moon. Globe is real clear with the outside edge being a little fuzzy. No structure visible. It doesn't appear to be too distant. Only a crescent moon was out on this night." The following afternoon, June 10, 1997, a "bright silver object (was) spotted in a westerly direction, moving west about 40 miles per hour." Again the Roberts men snapped a photo. "The still shows a small white cigar. No structure (visible)." On Friday, June 20, 1997, at 11:15 a.m., Jim and Jeff Roberts walked out of a restaurant in nearby Salida, Colorado (population 4,870) and "while walking to their car saw a very bright reflective silver disc-shaped object hovering and then banking and taking off at a high rate of speed to the west. They were able to get four other people in the restaurant (owned by ufologist Tim Edwards) to view it." "They also described a black band around it. They saw no dome. It was hovering and banking for about 20 seconds when viewed right in front of The Boot (a terrain feature of Methodist Mountain just south of Salida that resembles a boot--J.T.) at 9,200 feet elevation. This is only two and a half miles (5 kilometers) south of Salida. The object was near a power line." Jim and Jeff Roberts spotted their first UFO in Howard on February 20. In April, when Jeff returned to his home in Ankeny, Iowa, he and seven other witnesses spotted a hovering UFO. Tim Edwards remarks, "These guys have been like magnets lately for UFOs." (Many thanks to Tim Edwards for this report.) LARGE UFO DESCENDS NEAR PALMDALE, CALIFORNIA At 1 a.m. on Tuesday, June 24, 1997, Anne S. was driving home from a council meeting in Simi Valley on California Highway 14, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Los Angeles. As she neared the ridgeline near Acton, she "noticed on my left a large object that was streaking to earth, much like you would expect a falling star--but this was VERY large. Also, I noticed two streams of fire out the back side." "The sky was fairly bright last night, and although the object was dark (black, it was silhouetted against the lighter night sky), it appeared to be of an unusual shape, like a crescent or simply not symmetrical. My impression is that it was a meteor, because it was irregularly shaped and there were no lights visible. There was no green color; the object was black and the fire sparks were light yellow to orange...I had clear view for about 10 seconds and it was very low as it passed over the hills. In fact, I was surprised when it cleared them." "The trajectory was towards Elizabeth Lake, or to the north and west of where I was. It was coming down very rapidly, not like an object falling, but possibly like a meteor or an aircraft with some speed behind it. The object disappeared behind the hills to my left (northwest)." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding this story.) UFOs, BLACK HELICOPTERS STALK CHICAGO SUBURB On Saturday, June 14, 1997, at approximately 3 p.m., the Simmons family was startled when "a very loud and low helicopter went over my house traveling from the south to the north." The Simmons's home is in Streamwood, Illinois, south of Schaumburg Road, about 19 miles (30 kilometers) west of the Chicago Loop. "The helicopter was a very dark gray, and my husband thought it might be an Apache (AH-64--J.T.)" "Later that night, at about 11 p.m., when I went outside to move my van, I noticed an extremely bright red light to the west (near Elgin, Illinois). It appeared to be stationary in the sky," Mrs. Simmons reported. "I watched it for a moment or two, wondering why the lights were not blinking, and then noticed to the east, in the direction of O'Hare (International) Airport, an airplane making its approach. The difference between the lights was dramatic, and I noted that there were no white lights or green lights on this object...This was a very bright red light, like a Christmas light." On Monday, June 16, 1997, at 10:45 p.m., a friend of Mrs. Simmons's, who lives about a mile away, went outdoors and "immediately noticed an 'intense' red light moving from the west to the east. The light was not as high as a satellite would be, but was definitely higher than the plane traffic. It was moving fast." The following day, June 17, 1997, in the "early afternoon," Mrs. Simmons's friend "saw a black helicopter traveling low enough to see the pilot and moving from southwest to the northeast over Streamwood," apparently heading for Barrington Road. (Email Interview) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN AROUND EASTERN TEXAS On Tuesday, June 10, 1997, at 3:51 p.m., witnesses in Spicewood, Texas, about 27 miles (43 kilometers) west of the state capital, Austin, sighted a flight of seven to nine black helicopters, tentatively identified as AH-64 Apaches, flying low over the Pedernales River just west of Lake Travis. On Saturday, June 21, 1997, local residents saw "about a dozen" black helicopters of a model unfamiliar to them tied down on the tarmac at the airport in San Saba, Texas (population 2,336), 45 miles (72 kilometers) northwest of Austin. On Wednesday, June 25, 1997, people in Oilton, Texas sighted six black helicopters--five AH-64 Apaches and one UH-60 Blackhawk--flying over the town, heading west towards Laredo. (Unsolicited Email) UFOs BUZZ SEASIDE HOTEL IN CANCUN, MEXICO On Sunday, June 15, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., Cathy C. was relaxing at her hotel suite in the resort city of Cancun, Mexico with her son, Matthew, and a fellow American, Richard H. Cancun is in the state of Quintana Roo, on the eastern tip of the Yucatan Peninsula, 1,200 kilometers (750 miles) east of Mexico City. "Rick and I were on the balcony skywatching when something flew in front of us," Cathy reported. "My response was 'What the hell was that!?' I jumped up and ran to the edge and never took my eyes off it." Cathy's suite was on the 5th floor of the hotel, facing the Atlantic Ocean. "It seemed to almost 'buzz' the hotel one time, as if the say, 'Look at me!' It flew in a straight line and then veered off and went straight up...As for size, I would equate it with a small military jet," and the shape "seemed to be triangular, no colored lights, just a softly glowing sphere that appeared to be in the middle section. It moved very quickly and very aerobatically." The UFO was soon joined by three others. "We all saw the four," she reported, "My son and I stayed out watching for over three hours, and yet it felt like minutes. We had no idea we were out there that long. At times, 'they' appeared playful, as if they wanted us to watch the show. At one point they flew straight down. The distance, according to Matt, was several hundred yards...As for speed, at times they were up in the stars and seconds later, they were down in the clouds, still not ever any noise." At one point, they witnessed "what appeared to be a falling star, but it was one of the objects followed by a stream of fire. Then both disappeared for a few seconds and then would reappear in another area close by. That happened three times." "Also...the objects would appear to fly out into the outer atmosphere, as they would fly up and disappear, and then reappear shortly...We strongly feel that it wanted to be seen or did not care if it was seen...Time seemed to stand still. It was amazing! We will never forget that night." (Email Interview) BLIMP TRIGGERS NEAR-PANIC AS THE AUSTRALIAN UFO FLAP CONTINUES When a blimp advertising Whitman's Chocolates flew over Sydney and its suburbs earlier this week, it triggered a cascade of phone calls to Australia's National 24-Hour Hotline. According to hotline director Ross Dowe, his office received thousands of calls, the most ever for one night. The blimp incident followed a month of strange sightings over the Australian states of Victoria and Queensland. On Monday, June 2, 1997, at 7:30 p.m., witnesses in the Taylor Lakes area near Melbourne "reported sighting a cloud-like illumination stopping and then moving again towards the western sky, followed by six orange illuminations." On Tuesday, June 3, 1997, at 5 p.m., people from Melbourne to Keilor Downs, Victoria (Vic.) reported seeing "a flouro (flourescent) white, upside- down banana-shaped illumination 'moving towards the northwest sky.'" On Wednesday, June 11, 1997, at 9 p.m., a UFO was reported in Lindissar, on the island of Tasmania off Australia's southern coast. A resident spotted "a bright orange-yellow tubed or line-shaped object." The following night, Thursday, June 12, 1997, at 6:55 p.m. people at Picnic Point on Queensland's "Sunshine Coast," sighted "a lime-green line with a golden football-shaped illumination halfway up the line." Later that evening, in Rye, Vic., witnesses saw "a foggy white football-shaped object...with (a) line of light on either side of the object." On Friday, June 13, 1997, at 7:30 p.m., local residents saw "a stationary tube-shaped illumination" hovering in the northwest sky at Lara, Vic. On Saturday, June 16, 1997, at 11:20 p.m., witnesses at Holland Park, Queensland reported sighting "a large bright white-line-shaped illumination in the southeastern sky. The illumination was as long as a little finger at arm's length." (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for these recent sightings.) MYSTERY METEORS BOMBARD WAIKANAE, NEW ZEALAND The town of Waikanae, on the North Island of New Zealand, about 30 miles (50 kilometers) north of Wellington, has been struck twice by strange meteoric bombardments this month. During the first week of June, a strange object was seen in the southwest sky, about 5 kilometers (3 miles) from Paraparaumu, between 6 and 9 p.m. According to local ufologist David Butterfield, "A fair number of witnesses saw it, but the paper (the Kapiti Observer) only quoted about three or four. The object was seen for maybe 30 to 60 seconds. It was approximately spherical, and changed colour from green to red, I think. The object was bright and left a trail of some description, I believe." New Zealand's National Television played down the incident as "a meteor shower." But David Butterfield adds, "The phenomenon took out several television channels when it hit, as well." On Friday, June 13, 1997, residents of the Waikanae Valley reported "hundreds of green and yellow illuminations crossing the sky...The lights appeared to be something entering our atmosphere and may have been from the trail left behind from (the) Hale-Bopp (comet)." According to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline, New Zealand's "Carter Observatory advised that the showers of green and yellow light were likely to be space junk or something re-entering the atmosphere." "Radio New Zealand reports Wellington Police as saying the biggest meteor was a large green ball of light that appeared to crash into valleys behind Waikanae. No debris have been found at this stage." (Many thanks to David Butterfield and Ross Dowe for these stories.) MAMLAMBO ON THE LOOSE Nine people are reported dead in South Africa's Eastern Cape province, all said to be victims of Mamlambo, the river monster. Most recently the giant reptile was sighted near Lubaleko, a village on the Mzintlava River not far from Mount Ayliff, about 176 kilometers (110 miles) southeast of Durban. "Like many rural villages in what used to be the Transkei, Lubaleko is scattered over several square kilometers of undulating hillside country. The houses, some made of brick and others of mud, are far apart and linked only by winding footpaths. There is no electricity or piped water." Police say the victims were drowned in the Mzintlava, which was swollen by heavy rains in Lesotho during the wet season. "'I have seen some of the bodies of the so-called monster's victims,' Captain G. Mzuko of the Mount Ayliff Police told (the Cape Argus). 'They had all been in the water for some time and, as is often the case, river crabs had eaten away the soft parts of the faces and throats. In one case, the crabs were still clinging to the body when it was brought in. As far as we are concerned, there were cases of drowning, plain and simple.'" "But to the people of the village, the mutilation just proves the monster's existence. 'It eats their faces off and sucks out the people's brains,' said an elderly Mr. Matshunga, walking the lonely track with his dogs. 'It is a big snake, and I have seen what it does.'" Witnesses describe Mamlambo as being about 20 meters (67 feet) long, with short, stumpy legs, a crocodilian body, plus "the head and neck of a snake, and it shines at night with a green light." "A group of women returning from a meeting at the village school assured (Cape Argus reporter David Biggs) that the monster was real." "'We are not just ignorant, superstitious people,' they told me. 'We are teachers. Educated. And we know that the monster is there. That is why we do not cross the river any more." "Mthokozisi Sigcobeka (age 6) says his father was eaten by the monster. When he's older, he plans to get a gun and hunt it." (See the Cape Argus of Capetown, South Africa for May 16, 1997. Also the Johannesburg Star for April 30, 1997.) (Editor's Comment: From the description, Mamlambo sounds like Elasmosaurus, a member of the plesiosaur family. Trouble is, Elasmosaurus became extinct during the Jurassic Period 50 million years ago. Imagine the novel Ernest Hemingway would have written if he had lived to join this safari!) from the UFO Files... 1947: EIGHT SAUCERS LAND IN IDAHO As we continue our celebration of the 50th Anniversay of the UFO Flap of 1947, here's another actual AP news story from the period: Spokane, Wash., July 5 - (AP) - Eight flying saucers were reported today to have made a landing on a mountainside near St. Maries, Idaho in full view of 10 persons. Mrs. Walter Johnson of suburban Dishman said the saucers came down in timber there Thursday evening (July 3, 1947) but had not been reported until she returned to her home in Dishman today. The saucers were seen to fall near Butler's Bay on the St. Joe River six miles (9 kilometers) west of St. Maries, where Mrs. Johnson was visiting her parents. She said they came into view at an extreme speed, traveling from the south to the north. Suddenly, they slowed, she said, and then "fluttered like leaves to the ground." "The mysterious part was that we couldn't see them after the landing," said Mrs. Johnson. "We could see them flutter down into the timber, yet we couldn't see that they did anything to the trees." Both the CAA (now the Federal Aviation Administration) and the Army Air Corps (now the U.S. Air Force) officials were notified of the incident but no immediate plans for an air search of the area were announced." (See the Providence, R.I. Journal for July 6, 1947, page 3.) (Editor's Note: On July 3, 1947, a silver disc with a small dome on top flew over Vassouras, a small city about 40 kilometers (25 miles) northeast of Rio de Janeiro, then the capital of Brazil. Among the witnesses was a young woman named Irene Granchi, who went on to become the "mother of Brazilian ufology.") FUN UFO WEBSITES: This week, the word is ROSWELL. For a look at the "crashed saucer" issue of the Roswell Daily Record, complete with colorful graphics and music, visit this site: http://www.sierra-vista.com/roswell. Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, at this URL: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, drop in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/index.shtml That's it for this week. If you're one of the thousands heading to Roswell, New Mexico for the gala celebration of UFO Encounter 1997, try to pick up some extra canteens and stock up on water for your campsite. You can dehydrate very quickly under that July sun. If anything big happens--and you know what I'm talking about--send us the details pronto at our email address, Masinaigan@aol.com. Meanwhile, we'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any news item from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Back, Brown & Beat... From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:00:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:00:12 -0400 Subject: Back, Brown & Beat... Many thanks for your patience whilst Sue and I took a couple of weeks off in New Mexico. It was a break we both needed. Now we both need a break to get over the break. :^) Roswell was..... 'Roswell'. Incredibly hot for us from north of the 49th parallel, amazingly into the 'Alien' theme of the 'Festival', clean, friendly, hot, much larger than it is presented on video, somewhat chaotic in some hotels and did I mention hot? It was gratifying to meet so many List-subscribers, website operators, UFO journalists, writers, researchers, broadcasters and many others who were either simply names or photographs. A warm and heartfelt vote of thanks from Sue, Mike & Kathy Woods and myself to the gang from 'SPUFON', Rebecca, Bill, Gayle and especially Rick, for the beer and guided tour to Ragsdale's Rock and the old Foster Ranch. 111 degrees in the desert that day..... From 'The Moments We Wouldn't Have Missed' dept.: The flat tire on the dirt road a thousand miles from nowhere, Velez necking the alien dummy at the Sally Port, Glenn thinking I was a "little-guy", Rebecca 'gunning' Jesse Jr., Paul Davids being literally cornered by the press after Derrel's metal findings, Dianne's squeals of delight at some of the footage used on 'Nightline', the Pflock/Randle debate (great showbiz Kev.), Mike Woods trying to avoid the hot exhaust behind his car while the air-conditioner cooled the interior, only to discover that moving away from the car didn't change the hot-blowing wind, the beautiful bride's dress in the bridal shop window modelled by an alien dummy, all the alien manequins in Wal-Mart, Linda Mouldy Cowe still swearing by the MJ-12 documents _and_ the autopsy footage and Michael Lindemann's curtailing of her endlessly long self-written intro at her talk, John Mack's assertion that an abductee spending 15 minutes with aliens was the equivalent of a lifetime of meditation and John Velez's reaction to _that_ one, doing a stand-up for the local NBC tv news on "Why we bought half-a-dozen Roswell first-day commemerative stamps and envelopes?" and the snort from the crew when we pointed out how odd it was that the US Airforce spent 50 years denying that anything had ever happened near Roswell and the US Post Office was selling stamps in celebration of the event, Clifford Stone, Michael & Deborah, Jim Mosely, Melanie, Nancy Birnes, Budd & Carol, Tom & Jason, Phil Corso, Michael Hessemann, White Sands, Alamagordo, Socorro, The Very Large Array Radio Telescope dishes (27 of 'em) on the San Augustin Plains and the 'Ala Carte' food on Northwest Airlines - served on cardboard! And to those dozen or so 'readers' who didn't read the last message out of here on June 28: > Subject: UFO UpDates Off-Line until after Midnight July 13th UpDates is back a day early, just for you <G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Kaufman Knows What _He_ Saw From: http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=3720945-b92 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:12:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:12:41 -0400 Subject: Kaufman Knows What _He_ Saw 12:44 PM ET 07/01/97 UFO faithful land in Roswell for anniversary fest By Kieran Murray ROSWELL, N.M. (Reuter) - Thousands of UFO buffs, researchers and alien-watchers gathered Tuesday for an extravaganza marking the 50th anniversary of the most famous of all alleged alien landings on Earth. Organizers said between 60,000 and 100,000 people would arrive over the next six days to swap stories of alien encounters and dissect the evidence they believe shows that an alien spacecraft crashed near this ranching town on or around July 4, 1947, and that its dead occupants were taken away for secret autopsies and testing by Air Force scientists. Bidding to quash the Roswell conspiracy theories, the Air Force last week issued a comprehensive report aimed at refuting details of the alleged extraterrestrial landing. It said the wreckage found in a field 75 miles northwest of Roswell was in fact that of a high-altitude balloon used in the military's top-secret ``Project Mogul'' to detect Soviet nuclear tests at the start of the Cold War. Eyewitnesses who said they saw dead aliens loaded into body bags at another site and spoke to people who carried out autopsies on the creatures may have confused what they saw with Air Force dummies used to test high altitude parachutes in the area, the Air Force said. But the report has been ridiculed by UFO believers and the few remaining witnesses insist their stories are true. ``I know what I saw,'' said Frank Kaufmann, now 81, who was working at the Roswell Army Air Field in July 1947 when he was sent out to see what had crashed into a dry river bed north of town. ``Seeing those bodies and the craft made me realize we're not alone in this vast universe.'' He said he got a close look at two dead aliens, one in the wreckage and another in the dry river bed, and that those two and three more were taken away in body bags. "There is a lot of crap in all this,'' said Kaufmann, who has little time for the zanier alien buffs who claim they have been abducted by little green men or impregnated by extraterrestrial visitors. ``These people who claim they've been abducted by aliens, it's so transfixed in their minds they fantasize it and there's no way you can budge them.'' Max Littel, an 80-year-old local businessman who has researched the alleged landing, said the Air Force report insults the intelligence of local residents because the parachute dummies were not used in the area until the late 1950s, a full decade after the incident. ``It's just more of their coverup. They are trying to get people to shut up about this but there's absolutely nothing to it. We just call it another one of their damn lies,'' he said. The so-called Roswell Incident has drawn huge interest in recent years with the release of the ``Independence Day'' movie, the ``X-Files'' television series and fake alien-autopsy videos focusing on the events of July 1947. Few believe the military report has undermined the Roswell mystique for those who believe intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe and this city of 50,000 people in southeast New Mexico has geared up for a tourist invasion. ``It's the Woodstock of 1997. The U.S. government's effort to deep-six this with this release of another absurd explanation just adds gasoline to the fire,'' said Linda Moulton Howe, a reporter who researches UFO sightings. ``I have no doubt the Pentagon is lying to us. They think people would freak if they told the truth so they are covering it up,'' said a California woman named ``Star'' who arrived in Roswell Monday, her hair sprayed green for the occasion. Alien dolls, T-shirts, cookies, bottled water and 50th anniversary commemorative coins are on sale and thousands of people are expected to visit three separate sites where the spacecraft or its debris came down. The ``Roswell UFO Encounter '97'' also boasts a film festival, a rock concert, laser shows, ``Alien Chase'' foot races and a soapbox derby of homemade alien vessels. While some researchers say the commercial blitz and assorted wackos expected to attend the event undermine their work, organizers insist the serious side to the incident is not being overlooked. ``We're not sacrificing alien babies. This is a legitimate family event and an educational experience,'' chief organizer Stan Crosby said. ^REUTER@
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - UFO Mystery Man Surfaces From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:57:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:29:34 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - UFO Mystery Man Surfaces Greetings List Members, Ed Stewart forwarded this post from the Skeptic's List. Best regards, Jan Subject: UFO Mystery Man Surfaces Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 03:29:16 -0400 From: tad@ssc.com Reply-To: skeptic@listproc.hcf.jhu.edu To: skeptic@listproc.hcf.jhu.edu (Skeptic Discussion Group) Floridian may be UFO believers' nefarious redhead ORLANDO, Fla (Reuter) - Joe Kittinger retired to Florida, took up hobbies and until a year ago never suspected he was a key figure in a far-reaching conspiracy theory. Then a U.S. Air Force captain called and asked Kittinger if he had ever dropped crash-test dummies from high-altitude balloons near Roswell, New Mexico. "About 50 times," Kittinger said. With that, the Air Force was one step closer to closing its books on reports of flying saucers, alien autopsies and government coverups at Roswell. The 68-year-old Kittinger, when he was stationed there, sported a thick head of red hair, wore captain's bars on his uniform and recovered lifeless, anthropomorphic figures from the desert. That made him a good fit for the mysterious Red-Headed Captain, a nefarious figure in the annals of UFOlogy, the man who believers allege spirited away the alien victims of a downed flying saucer in 1947. If you search the many Internet sites devoted to Roswell, you'll find dozens of references to the Red-Headed Captain. He also figures prominently in many books and film and television reenactments. It was he, according to believers, who first drew a curtain of secrecy on those alien bodies that has not been parted in 50 years. "It's all a crock," Kittinger said. "We needed the data (from the dummies) and we went to a lot of trouble to recover them. If that meant searching a wheat field in the middle of the night, that's what happened." Roswell this week celebrates the 50th anniversary of an event the Air Force insists never happened. By naming Kittinger in its own recently published investigation -- "The Roswell Report: Case Closed" -- the Air Force hopes to drive the point home. Although Kittinger fits the description of the Red-Headed Captain -- his telephone answering machine now greets callers with the words "Hello, you've reached the home of the UFO mystery man" -- he was nowhere near Roswell when the events of 1947 did or did not take place. But he was there in the 1950s, an expert in high-altitude balloons and parachuting, conducting experiments on whether astronauts could one day survive parachute drops from the edge of space. He supports the Air Force conclusions that when UFO phenomena re-emerged as a popular subject in the 1970s, the residents of Roswell confused memories of events separated by years and tied them all to a 1947 newspaper headline about a "flying disk" recovered in the desert. The Air Force, which originally said it had captured a flying saucer, quickly reversed itself to say the disk was actually a high-altitude balloon. After exhaustive research, that is still what it says. UFO enthusiasts accuse the Air Force of a massive coverup. "People are going to believe what they want to," Kittinger said. "Too many people have made too much money spinning Roswell conspiracy theories to simply accept the Air Force's conclusions." But Kittinger keeps a sense of humor about his alleged role in history. Besides the answering machine, he has a doormat that says, "Welcome UFOs and crews." And he accepts that he may one day be remembered more for something he did not do than for the many things he did. In 1960, for example, he parachuted from an altitude of 19 miles, becoming the first person to break the sound barrier without an aircraft. It is a parachuting record that still stands. Later he flew three tours of duty in Vietnam, spending the last year of the conflict in a prisoner-of-war camp.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 A Call for Unity to the UFO Research Community From: "Robert and Cecilia Dean" <stargate@rtd.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:25:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:32:49 -0400 Subject: A Call for Unity to the UFO Research Community A Call for Unity Dear Colleagues, Is it not time for a little peace and cooperation? For some time now I have sat quietly aside and observed a regular "knock down, drag out" brawl between the so called "UFO community". I have purposely refrained from getting into this melee of rude insults, uncalled for slander, bitter recriminations, and blatant mud slinging. I am sure Klass and Peebles and company are overjoyed. I can even hear the snickering and gleeful chuckles at the CSICOPS offices throughout the country. I have personally tried to refrain from bad mouthing any sincere and dedicated researcher, even though I might disagree with him or her. Differences are to be expected, but some semblance of agreement on our mutual purpose and goals will be necessary to achieve our ultimate goal. I would like to invite all of us to agree to disagree on the myriad of details that UFO organizations normally disagree on, and agree on a few simple rules of behavior for 1997. This will allow us to link arms and move forward together. We can create a positive critical mass of energy if we all build upon what we each do best. The UFO research community seems to be self-destructing. No one but the originators of the UFO deceit and deception themselves should be happy about this. I ask all of the players, individuals, as well as organizations to "cool it". We have done more than enough damage to ourselves. Let us continue to seek the truth together. Let us stand for a single principle: full and complete disclosure of classified UFO documents! Let us stand together now! I would like to know how many of you agree with me. I hope to see many of you in Roswell. Robert O. Dean stargate@rtd.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:48:54 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Robert Dean Greeting List Members, To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider that he is telling us about a Top Secret document that he took an oath to safeguard. It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a little oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is flushing the Constitution of the United States down the toilet. He has done the same to his oath to protect and defend the Constitution if what he says is true. So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a liar. In either case not a very creditable person. Now when Project Blue Book report were released to Major Keyhoe in 1952-3, Keyhoe summarized them in his book FLYING SAUCERS FROM OUTER SPACE. Keyhoe unfortunately mixed in things like "strange machine" or "weird machine" in his accounts. A number of people wrote the Air Force asking if Keyhoe's accounts were true. The Air Force replied in noncommittal language which left the question up in the air. This was especially true of the Gulf of Mexico radar sighting. A civilian radar expert's letter can be found of the "Various UFO" microfilm discussed a few days ago. When the Project Blue Book files were finally released it was possible to see that Keyhoe's basic accounts were generally correct. The problem being for years that you had to accept Keyhoe's accounts, and you got his opinions with them. Let's for the sake of argument say that the NATO "Assessment" exist. We only have Dean's word for what is in it. His interpretations of the data: his emphasis, his opinions. The document is exempt from FOIA, so you never will be able to see it. So Dean controls the information with no independent verification possible. Dean makes a big deal about have COSMIC TOP SECRET access. See this URL for further discussion: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/feb/m15-023.shtml He claims he served in North Vietnam. I think he cannot document that. It is just one more of these wild "war stories." You do not get "choice" assignments because of your security clearance. It is the other way around. You get the assignment then the security investigation for the proper clearance is done. Just more Dean-speak. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - ABC Nightline: Roswell From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:39:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:39:13 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - ABC Nightline: Roswell Greetings List Members, Ted Koppel's Nightline considered Roswell last night. The show was about evenly divided between a report from the scene of Roswell and segements on Kent Jeffery and Kevin Randle with Jeffery as the Roswell skeptic and Randle as the proponent. Ted Koppel himself did a commentary on true-believers and how they can never be convinced of anything. The implication was that all people interested in UFOs are true believers. Comments on conspiracies, Watergate and the declining respect for government were also featured. The circus at Roswell, NM was extensive featured. I was interest when Jeffery start speaking because he made a statement that UFO's deserved study, but he was skeptic of Roswell. Kevin Randell gave a run down of his investigations and why he was not a ture-believer, but why he believed in Roswell. Then in a live segment they answered questions from Ted Koppel. Jeffery mentioned that he talked to lots a number of 509th Bomber Squadron who said they had never heard of a saucer crash. Later he showed a paper which he said were statement from officers who worked at Wright-Patterson claim no knowledge of a crashed saucer. Ted Koppel interjected that this was just a paper with words type on it. (For journalists showing a piece of paper harkens back to the Senate McCarthy hearings on Communists in the US government. "I have here in my hand a list of .......") Randle said something about an unbias investigation which Koppel took up. Keppel said that whatever kind of investigation was done, believers would never accept the answer. Also, no one was completely unbias. Randle brought up the Condon committee and alledge Air Force interference. Jeffery and Randle exchanged views on Rowell. Finally Koppel said that Randle would get the last word. In Randle's final statement Jeffery interrupted. Koppel again said that Randle would get the last word. The whole thing then degenerated into a childish match between Randle and Jeffery: "My two generals and one colonel trump your three colonels." "One of my colonel retired as a four star general that trumps yours." Fran, you are correct. We do indeed need a spokesman for ufology. These two guys could have salvaged something from a Koppel's "true believer" commentary and Roswell circus, but NO, these two guys insisted on playing Russian roulette with every chamber filled. No doubt this will be the last time Koppel does a UFO program. However, I think it will probably be spread around that these two guys are unruly guests and should not be used again. How much better it would have been for Randle to end with: "Well, Kent and I don't agree on Roswell, but I certainly agree with Kent that there are UFO incidents that deserve careful study." Probably too much to expect as Randle is heavily invested in Roswell. But maybe the two of them should have coordinated together before Nightline. Just a thought.... Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - Re: ABC Nightline: Roswell From: Mark Rodeghier <markrod@XSITE.NET> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:26:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:40:27 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: ABC Nightline: Roswell I'd like to add this thought to Jan Aldrich's comments on the Nightline program. Ted Koppel was about as ill-prepared for this segment as is possible, and began the live interviews with an idiotic question (statement) about God as evidence for or indication of extraterretrial intelligence (yes, really). Koppel was as much the problem as Randle or Jeffrey last night, though I agree with Jan that they could have made much more of Koppel's claim about all those interested in UFOs being true believers, etc. Mark Rodeghier
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - Web Site & Project 1947 Report From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:12:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:46:20 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Web Site & Project 1947 Report Greetings, John Stepkowski despite some rather severe reversals has finished the Project 1947 pages on IUFOG. To view the results go to: http://www.iufog.org/project1947 Here you will find some familiar material and some material not seen before. It gives a good overview 1947 and some of the events afterwards. There are reports from 1909 to 1954. Some documents for General Cabell, McCoy and other officials are present. The 1947 press section is extensive. The official reports sent to Project Sign from Muroc Air Base are reproduced here. As Hynek said, of all the official reports in 1947 these should have stirred the Air Force most. The formerly TOP SECRET "Analysis of Flying Objects in the United States" is reproduced. ================================================================== In addition a small number of The Project 1947: Report #1 have been produced. This is a 200+ page preliminary look at the Project 1947 data. It is not a representative sample. It represents less than 10% of the material collected. Material covered are reports before and after the 1947 UFO wave and from areas which did not receive much coverage in Ted Bloecher's The Report on UFO Wave of 1947. The copies are first run spiral bound and cost $22 with shipping from the Fund for UFO Research, P. O. Box 277, Mount Rainier, MD 20712. Later editions will be "perfect bound" and will cost a little more. There are sections on: an historical overview which uses documents and news accounts to illustrate the commentary; a chronicle of sightings with summaries, letters, reports, news accounts, and some rather unusual first hand accounts, and oversea sections written by Anders Liljegren of Sweden, Ilkka Serra of Finland, William Chalker of Australia, and Dominique Weinstein, Perry Petrakis, and Jean Sider of France. The Internet UFO Group's Web Site hosts Project 1947 at http://www.iufog.org/project1947 A large number of official documents, news accounts and UFO reports from 1947 and the early UFO era have been added to the Web Site by John Stepkowski. The original newspaper account of Kenneth Arnold's sighting in the East Oregonian can be found along with: +Muroc Air Base Sighting Reports, 8 July 1947 Official reports from the 4th Air Force files +Dave Johnson, Boise STATESMAN, aviation editor, and his daily 1947 flights in search of UFOs which were finally rewarded. +Counter Intelligence Corps' search for the Horton Brothers, Nazi aircraft designers suspected of making flying saucers +Major General Cabell's attempts to have the Secretary of Defense decide press policy +Formerly TOP SECRET "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States" +The Entire PROJECT SAUCER Press Release +1952 News Reports +Updated 1952 Washington UFO Flap Chronology using press, intelligence and first hand reports not previously brought together. +Many Other Pre-1947, 1947 and Post 1947 Reports and Documents Jan Aldrich Project 1947 ================================================================= Please repost to newsgroups and mailing list the announcement about the Project 1947 Web Site. Here is a good overview of 1947 and not just Roswell. Also, you might mention it to newspaper reporters interested in UFOs. Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean From: Anastasia Wietrzychowska <MufonCT@AOL.COM> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:00:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:47:44 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean In a message dated 97-07-03 10:06:30 EDT, you write: << So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a lair. In either case not a very creditable person. >> Jan: Such a harsh indictment!! Surely your understandable frustrations are surfacing here I cannot believe that you really judge so rigidly and implacably those people who broke laws, vows, security oaths, etc in, say, World War II... You would surely NOT call them "liars and untrustworthy" whose consciences could not allow them to continue commiting ever GREATER WRONGS for their Axis masters.... do you truely feel they should be despised for their very altruism and selfless courage? I think not. Small or great acts of conscience in life's daily "tests" are, surely, something worthy of respect. As you know, Dean and many others in the military and in government (whom you may deem more "worthy") are wrestling with these same issues at this very moment...I'm reminded of that quote, "All that remains for Evil to win, is for GOOD PEOPLE to do NOTHING. While you rightly enough point out that Dean's story is not readily proveable, BUT, unless there is proof of intended duplicity, it is appropriate to take a person at their word. (Just as you deserve to be taken). Consider, that to make his rank, he must have been fairly well thought of by his superiors. Yes, I think very delicate assessments are in order, don't you? You also said: {My comments will appear in red} >>He claims he served in North Vietnam. I think he cannot document that. {Too risky on his part, I should think} It is just one more of these wild "war stories."{ASSUMPTION} << Further, you said: >>You do not get "choice" assignments because of your security clearance. It is the other way around. You get the assignment then the security investigation for the proper clearance is done.<< {Remember, consideration is first given as to whether there's no chance that one WILL be able to obtain the proper clearance; there would then be no need to further consider one for said assignment. If it is deemed likely that the clearance will be obtainable, then offer of the position is made , then proper clearances are obtained} Just more Dean-speak. {Ahem...} Best, as always: Anastasia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean From: "Edward G. Stewart" <egs@NETCOM.COM> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:21:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:50:31 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean Anastasia, First, you waltzed into this list a couple of days ago pretending not to know the first thing about the "stargate" project and now you are campaigning for people to accept Robert Dean at his "word" and castigating folks on this list for not accepting Robert Dean at all. > .... As you know, Dean and many others in the > military and in government (whom you may deem more "worthy") are wrestling > with these same issues at this very moment...I'm reminded of that quote, "All > that remains for Evil to win, is for GOOD PEOPLE to do NOTHING. Or to allow bullshit artists like Robert Dean a platform without being challenged. > While you rightly enough point out that Dean's story is not readily > proveable, BUT, unless there is proof of intended duplicity, it is > appropriate to take a person at their word. (Just as you deserve to be > taken). That, in a nut shell, is what is wrong with Ufology and most ufologists today. No one has the right to be taken at their word if they are unable to substantiate their position or claims. And when people are willing to accept unsubstantiated claims at their word, they are contributing to the darkeness of ufology and keeping real progress from being made. It is up to whoever is making the claims to provide the evidence, substantiation and ultimately the proof for their position. It is up to no one to accept them at their word until they do so. Ready acceptance for people with stories like Robert Dean is the major reason (in my opinion) why ufology is unable to get any respect outside of ufology. > Consider, that to make his rank, he must have been fairly well > thought of by his superiors. That, in a nut shell, also points out what is also wrong with ufology today - a total lack of understanding of logic and critical analysis. Appeal to authority is one of the most abused fallacies employed by ufologists when they don't have FACTS to substantiate their claims. Also, it is a fallacy that seems to impress those in the audience that do not have any critical thinking skills in their tool chest. > Yes, I think very delicate assessments are in order, don't you? I think very critical standards of evidence need to be put in place by ufologists and those standards should have nothing to do with whether or not someone's "story" happens to "support" a specific belief system or not. But, only if ufology ever has the hope of elevating itself above the state of a belief system boardering on a religion and offering ready platforms for every charismatic wannabe story teller preying on audiences that don't understand critical analysis and logic. Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 CSETI Leaders Troubles From: bufocalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:15:35 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:02:19 -0400 Subject: CSETI Leaders Troubles 3 July 1997 Dear Friends and Supporters of CSETI, Your support - both morally and financially - has been key to the success of CSETI and to the historic breakthroughs of the past few months. Now we need your help on another matter, which is quite urgent. Both myself and CSETI research director Shari Adamiak have been diagnosed with metastatic cancer. Both have appeared, rather enigmatically, at the same time, a fact which seems like a rather strange coincidence. I have been diagnosed with metastatic malignant melanoma, and another lesion was removed yesterday and confirmed to be malignant melanoma. The primary cancer has never been found. However, I am otherwise doing well and hope no further lesions will be found. Shari has been diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer of the right breast, with metastasis to the right axilla. This situation is very serious and necessitates immediate interventions which will be costly. For this reason, I am setting up through CSETI a Healing Fund to help pay for the expenses associated with Shari's condition. These funds will be used for the care and treatment for Shari until she achieves a full and complete healing. If you can donate even a small amount to this special fund, please do so now. Make the donation to CSETI and earmark it for the Healing Fund. Donations are tax-deductible. And please remember both of us in your prayers. We are certain that with your help, healing will be achieved and further historic successes realized. Working together, I am certain that we can create a new civilization based on universal peace. Wishing each of you the best of all worlds, Steven M. Greer M.D. Director of CSETI PO Box 15401 Asheville NC 704-274-5671; Fax 704-274-6766 Website: http://www.cseti.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Hynek, McDonald, 'Balloons' & USAF From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:36:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:03:55 -0400 Subject: Hynek, McDonald, 'Balloons' & USAF Answer to a friend's questions regarding Hynek, McDonald, "balloons" and the Air Force. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Hey Jerry, > >After reading most of Hynek's book, "The Hynek UFO Report", one >thing struck me as being kind of idiotic: how so many UFO reports >are dismissed as being balloons. Hynek, so far, has not addressed >this issue. JC: Actually he did... indirectly. Hynek did mention balloons, but they were located within another category; "nocturnal lights." In a letter I wrote to Paul Devereux, one of the champions of the Tectonic Strain Theory, he claimed that EQLS/LITS or nocturnal lights comprised the bulk of UFO sightings. However, in Hynek's "revised study of Bluebook," Hynek had aptly demonstrated that the *entire category* of "nocturnal lights" comprised only 38%. In other words, the other cases in excess of those were cases involving much more detail from the witnesses and other types of supportive proof. ooo The following quote from Hynek, J. Allen . The UFO Experience . Henry Regnery Co. 1972 . Part II: The Data and the Problem . 5 Nocturnal Lights REGARDING NOCTURNAL LIGHTS: "It should be clearly understood that initial light-in-the-night-sky reports have a very low survival rate. An experienced investigator readily recognizes most of these for what they are: bright meteors, aircraft landing lights, balloons, planets, violently twinkling stars, searchlights, advertising lights on planes, refueling missions, etc. When one realizes the unfamiliarity of the general public with lights in the night sky of this variety, it is obvious why so many such UFO reports arise. Of course, such trivial cases do not satisfy the definition of UFO used in this book. ......." -------------------------------------- The following quotes from: Hynek, J. Allen . The Hynek UFO Report . Chapt. 2 . Dell Publishing Co, Inc. 1977 HYNEK'S UFO CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM (in depth) -------------------------------------- "A number of years ago I devised a simple classification system, much like an astronomer might use to classify different types of stars or a zoologist different types of beetles that he came across in his explorations. NOCTURNAL LIGHTS: Since the most frequently reported sighting are those of strangely behaving lights in the night sky, I called these simply, Nocturnal Lights. This doesn't include just any lights that puzzle the observer (many people are puzzled by bright planets, twinkling stars, and aircraft at night), but those which are truly puzzling, even to experts, because their behavior does not fit the pattern of lights from known sources. One must always keep in mind that the "U" in UFO simply means "unidentified" -- but unidentified to all, not just to the witnesses." ....snip.... ooo JC: The whole text of this conversation with Paul Devereux and Hynek's entire classification system can be found at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jun/m27-009.shtml What Hynek also realized was that the distance observed and "how" those "balloons" move (i.e. slowly, rapidly, obviously blown with the wind, perhaps moving with it many times faster than the wind could possibly take them, or perhaps divorced from it entirely?) are important factors to consider when one develops a "balloon" hypothesis for a particular sighting. >To those uninitiated with the UFO phenom (and, amazingly, even to >those who are!), the old, stock explanation of a UFO sighting as >being a balloon has a proven track record of dismissing further >interest or investigation. They used it in 1947 to explain away >what happened in Roswell and, again for the same incident, a year >or so ago. JC: If it had convinced everyone, we would not be here having this conversation. If one reads "Incident at Redlands," etc., and various other solidly verified information located at: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.5b.html they will find that the "weather balloon" hypothesis is unable to explain some of the more interesting, verified cases which have been reported by many well trained, competent, reliable people; military personnel included. There are just too many reports which *do not* fit this "simplistic" explanation. One such report was the following case, submitted by James Oberg in "In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs," which he used to claim James McDonald wasn't "straightforward" in his use of investigative material. Oddly enough, the example given by Mr. Oberg actually demonstrates McDonald's innocence rather than demonstrating any deviousness on his part. The following are quotes I took from Oberg then rebutted in O/C rebuttal.1b "BRIEFLY REGARDING MCDONALD: Oberg =B6 47 In fact, McDonald had described his findings on July 29,1968, during his testimony on UFOs to a congressional committee. This is the way he described it: "James D. Bittick and John R. Gettys... were at the time Askania cameramen on the test range, and spotted the domed disk UFO just as they reached Askania #4 site at Edwards, a bit before 8:00 AM that day [JEO: Compare this with Beckley's account of "after lunch" -- evidently pure dramatization]. They immediately got into communication with the range director, Frank E. Baker, and asked if anyone else was manning an Askania that could be used to get triangulation shots. Since no other camera operators were on duty at other sites, Baker told them to fire manually, and they got a number of shots before the object moved off into the distance. Bittick estimated that the object lay about a mile away when they got off the first shot, though when first seen he put it at no more than 500 yards off. He and Gettys both said it had a golden color, looked somewhat like an inverted plate with a dome on top, and had square holes or panels around the dome. Gettys thought that the holes were circular, not square. It was moving away from them, seemed to glow with its own luminosity, and had a hazy, indistinct halo around its rim, both mentioned. The number of shots taken is uncertain: Gettys thought perhaps thirty. The object was lost from sight by the time it moved out to about five miles or so, and they did not see it again.... The photos were shortly taken by base military authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session later that day, Bittick [was] informed that they had seen a weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects." "Oberg =B6 48 When I told Gettys in 1982 that McDonald had used his case in congressional testimony, the UFO witness was pleased but surprised McDonald had never gotten back to him about the use he'd put his testimony to. So the pro-UFO people kept some secrets, too!." Then my comments re above: "Dr. McDonald brings a recorded, documented case to a congressional committee and, Mr. Oberg, because of Air Force statements claiming the preceding was a "weather balloon...distorted by the desert atmospheric effects." (500 yards away?) assumes that Dr. McDonald's case is invalid and goes even further, intimating that McDonald did something devious in bringing the case to the committee; negating the fact Oberg himself clearly states that the witness was *pleased* that McDonald had done so. Is it possible that McDonald knew he would be pleased? No, in Mr. Oberg's eyes, that darned McDonald is just trying to be sneaky." JC: Oberg's essay (in three parts), and my rebuttal, can be found at..... http://www.li.net/~rjcohen Within the rebuttals, I also made the following statement and, using McDonald's research and cases presented by Hynek as evidence, I demonstrated the following. "....snip.... I will provide 1) another case that McDonald presented to the various science groups that leaves no doubt as to meticulousness of the man and the completeness and honesty of his research and 2) that statistics regarding UFOs, derived from the Air Force's "Project Blue Book" were, as Hynek put it, "a travesty," and additional clear evidence, dating back to at least 1957, that the Air Force has not been telling us everything they know regarding UFOs." JC: The latter point was driven home again when, after illustrating Hynek's cogent analysis of Blue Book and various excellent cases he had clearly demonstrated the Air Force had frivolously "explained" away without in-depth study, I asked the following question at the very end of the Oberg/Cooper rebuttal series. The last paragraphs in 7c were: ooo "And, considering the information Hynek had appraised us regarding Project Blue Book, some of the excellent overlooked cases therein and the statistical "travesty" perpetrated by that project, is it really so difficult for us to understand why Dr. James McDonald did not accept the Air Force's "weather balloon" explanation (Oberg =B6 50) for the 1957 Edwards AFB case? Below is a portion of the argument given to convince us of the case against Cooper's Edwards AFB UFO claim and McDonald. Oberg =B6 51 But oddly enough, even though the original sighting was published in numerous newspapers (and made national wire services), the explanation was written up in no newspaper that I have been able to find. Nor did the pro- UFO McDonald (who hardly could have failed to be aware of it, since he had been sent the same material by Gettys) mention it before the congressional committee. Of course, the explanation "weather balloon" elicits snickers of disbelief from anybody familiar with how the term was over-used for other cases. . . . . Respectfully, Mr. Oberg, it certainly does." ooo BTW: RE LATEST AIR FORCE PRONOUNCEMENTS REGARDING ROSWELL "DUMMIES" I personally find it very difficult to believe that a whole group of people, including trained military personnel, a nurse, etc. would not have been able to tell "dummies" from the real thing. This makes no sense. And *why* is this the first we've heard of this? Roswell has been discussed for years. Even my wife went out of her way to say this explanation makes no sense, and she's not a UFO believer or follower. Whatever their motives in this latest PR maneuver, I think the end result is the the Air Force has gotten even more people questioning the explanations they've been giving. They've changed their story so many times regarding this case, one would almost have to be a fool to accept their pronouncement at face value. >Have you been following the Arizona sighting flap? JC: Yes, and it's quite interesting. It is claimed that there have been computer analyses performed on the videos and that, so far, no one knows exactly what it is so many people saw and recorded on their camcorders. Phoenix was really buzzing about this so there may well be something to it. It wasn't just one or a couple of people reporting the sightings. We'll have to wait and see. If you haven't seen this particular site, look at: http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/index.html ....snip.... >I have now read (almost) two of Hynek's books. Can you recommend >any others? (The UFO Experience . Henry Regnery Co. 1972 and the >one mentioned above) JC: i.e. "The Hynek UFO Report" . Dell Publishing Co, Inc. 1977 JC: Those two are the main "public" ones I'm familiar with, and were extremely important. He broke a lot of fresh ground at the time, and much of what he said back then still holds true today. There may be others but I'm not sure. Also keep in mind, he founded The Center for UFO Studies and was publishing in its Journal. ....snip.... Jerry E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES AVAILABLE #000200 to From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 02:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:12:53 -0400 Subject: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES AVAILABLE #000200 to Here is the next installment of the index for RG24v17984, 940-5-1. When I have the first group done (about 305 documents) I will look into having the entire group transferred, photocopied and made available. I have the first one hundred transferred so far. If you are missing parts of the index #001 to 225, e-mail me and I'll send you the complete index, thus far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. Unfortunately, they are of little use without an index. Included here is part of such an index that I am creating. If you would be interested in receiving updates of the index or ordering copies of the actual documents, please e-mail me at: ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca ASAP and I'll put you on the distribution list. PS. If you spot any ERRORS, please let me know ASAP. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANADIAN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE UFO (X-Files from 1947 to 1964) REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, 940-5, PART 1 INDEXED BY JOSEPH DANIELS (ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net http://cron-2.mco.net) DOCUMENTS 000200 to 000225 AS AT JUNE 30, 1997 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- UFO, WELLAND, ONTARIO, 12/10/53 198 12/14/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket, S940-105 350 199 12/29/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Welland, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report 12/12/53 200 12/29/53 Flight Lieutenant for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, Welland, Ontario 201 12/16/53 Welland, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 12/10/53 UFO, MT. ELGIN, TILSONBURG, ONTARIO, 11/30/53: 202 12/09/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Mt. Elgin, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO of Report 11/30/53 203 12/08/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, Mt. Elgin, Ontario 204 11/30/53 Mt. Elgin, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Laboratory near Ottawa UFO Report of November 15, 1953 205 11/30/53 (Page Two) 206 11/30/53 (Envelope) UFOS, GREENLAND, 08/06/53: 207 06/25/53 TELEX CANAIRDEF To: CANAIRHED ATTN Department of Air Intelligence Re: UFO Report, Simiutak, Greenland Red UFO destroyed Weather Balloon 208 08/06/53 Royal Canadian Air Force, Captain Pilot Sighting Flying Saucer, Andfolis Valley, Greenland 209 08/06/53 (Page Two) 210 08/06/53 (Page Three) 211 08/06/53 (Page Four) 212 08/06/53 Royal Canadian Air Force Co-pilot report Flying Saucer, Andfolis Valley, Greenland 213 08/06/53 (Page Two) 214 08/06/53 (Page Three) 215 08/06/53 (Page Four) UFO, QUEBEC, 06/10/53: 216 06/12/53 Air Force, Teporary Docket S940-105 (163) 217 06/12/53 Squadron Leader, Campbell for Chief Air Staff To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Sighting Report 218 06/10/53 UFO Sighting Report, Quebec, June 10, 1953 219 06/10/53 (Page Two) 220 06/10/53 (Page Three) 221 06/10/53 (Page Four) PROJECT SECOND STORY: 222 06/11/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: AOC/ADC, RCAF Station, St. Hubert, Quebec Re: Suggestions for "Second Story" 223 06/11/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Chairman of Project "Second Story" Re: Amendments to UFO Sighting Report Questionnaire UFO, MAGOG, QUEBEC, 12/03/52: 224 12/12/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Magog, Quebec Re: Acknowledge Receipt Letter of December 6, 1952 225 12/06/52 Magog, Quebec To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Report of December 3, 1952 (Typed Copy) 226 12/06/52 Magog, Quebec To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Report of December 3, 1952 (Hand Written Original) 227 12/06/52 (Page Two) 228 12/06/52 (Envelope) --------------------------- TO BE CONTINUED ---------------------------- .-----------------------------------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Road, East, London, Ontario, Canada, N6E-3B3 | | Computer/Internet Consultant CUFORN: http://cron-2.mco.net/web/cuforn | | Marketing Consultant MUFON: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Photograph Of An Alien? From: Yellowrose <yelorose@swbell.net> [Amy Hebert] Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 07:57:35 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:09:56 -0400 Subject: Photograph Of An Alien? Well, it took me a year but I finally got what appears to be a photograph of an "alien" posted on a web site for all to see. The photograph is from a 3 day close encounter witnessed by multiple witnesses in a totally conscious state. No hypnosis was used and all descriptions, drawings and testimonies were gathered from all involved during a two year investigation. There were actually numerous photographs taken on the last night of this three day encounter but only two contain images of what appear to be beings of unknown origin. According to the main witness, 8 different species of beings were observed during her abduction and in and around her home. Through these photographs, we may gain an idea of what these beings may actually look like. The report of this case will be presented in several sections as the web site I am using does not have the capacity to accomidate the photographs, drawings and text in its entirety. I am first presenting one photograph to the public in celebration of the many momentous events of this week and all that shall be learned. I have worked on this photo for weeks trying to get rid of the little, green dots that continue to appear even after I remove them through various editing procedures. The original photo from which this image is scanned does not have any greeen dots on it and I cannot figure out where they come from! Please be patient with me while I learn HTML and how to scan and present documents on a web site. My web site is still under construction so check back now and then for updates and additions. I call the critter that appears in this photo, "Bubu". Bubu and I have spent many hours together the last two years. It took me a little over a year to figure out why Bubu appears in this photo and what this information may mean to the research community. After the report of this case is presented, I will present the infromation I have learned from studying these photos and possible implications for detecting these beings and their crafts even though they are not always visible. The case is real, the photographs are neither faked nor hoaxed. Although most people can accept life on other planets and UFOs in our air space, I have found that most people who view these photos simply cannot accept the idea that these beings are among us. People seem to accept photos of UFOs a lot easier than photos of possible alien life forms. Perhaps we are not ready or maybe it's time for the next step in expanding our realities. My web site is at <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5574> Click on "UFO ER" to view a summary of the photo and "BUBU". Yellowrose _____ _____ _____ / ___ \/ ___/ __ / / / /_/ /_ / /_/ / / / _ / _ / _ / / /__/ / /_ / / \ \ \_____/____/_/ \_\ Center For Expanding Realities http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5574 (Under Construction/temporary site)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Alfred's Odd Ode #148 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 10:17:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:18:05 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #148 Apology to MW #148 (For July 4, 1997) The *Haves* and *Have Nots* are a curious breed. The war fought between them extreme. That blood has been spilled in the name of one=92s creed, Makes integrity just a fond dream. Our history is a sugar coat That promotes the "warm and fuzzies." It brings the gorge into your throat . . . Though taught as truthful, righteous, trusty. The best ignore the evidence=20 Of an ageless past replete That sails past the competence Of our science incomplete. Proud looks are dully painted On the faces of our learned. Though their courage has long fainted And they squander what=92s been earned. Too careful of the *man* they tread, Afraid to loose their money. Their party line they know is dead. . . For _some_ still sweet as honey. Thank the Catholics, and conquistadors Who melted down our history. There were others of that brainless spoor. . . They destroyed a gold and silver mystery. It was printed on a calendar By the Olmecs of antiquity. On gold and silver wheels where It _sang_ the past=92s intensity. "A song of devils," Cortez said! "So we=92ll melt it down for ingots"! "We=92ll roll in gold and silver bread," "Drinking wine right from fine spigots!" And they wallowed in their excess As they sodomized the populace. Forgetting our earth=92s PRECESS, And burning the INCREDULOUS! Some will try to write this off As "common to past times"! Ideally thinking then "it=92s stopped"! "That it=92s better" =92s the new rhyme! But accept it even _then_ at peril One too quickly comes to find The past is *now*, back in your barrel! Ignore the past, and you go blind! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Accepting atrocity *then* as a condition of the times, is no different than accepting atrocity *now* as a condition of the times. To accept it then is to accept it now. To lie about it then is to lie about it now. And when we can look back into time into even a _corrupted_ history and see plainly that all the biggest monsters of our time were created by something else . . .it begs the question! What created communism? What created trade unions? What created militant homosexuality? What created militant feminism? What created organized crime? What created the militant environmentalist? What created a rabid Islam!=20 It all seems to come down to somebody=92s foot on somebody else=92s neck for an extended period, and the mechanism to keep that foot in place. The alien view finds that that is not such a broad brush after all. Just fairness, and respect from a reasonable position. =20 As too the 4=92th, well, I think we would find the actuality rather revolting, and not what we had been taught to believe it was, at all. =20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. Fundamentalists have little refined their process over the years? =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Crop Circle Connector #29 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:57:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:20:40 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #29 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #29 Members = 1570 What's New on The Crop Circle Connector click out this link below:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Friday 4th July 1997. ************************************************************************ * A new formation at Upham (2) , Nr Eastleigh, Hampshire. Reported early July A New formation in the Meon Valley (2), Hampshire. Reported early July A New formation in Droxford (2), Nr Southampton, Hampshire. Reported early July A new formation at Kilmeston, Nr Winchester, Hampshire. Reported Tuesday 1st July A new formation in Meon Valley , Hampshire. Reported Sunday 29th June Update on the formation at Whitehouse Common, Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands. Reported: 25th June. A new image of the formtion at Upham, Nr Eastleigh, Hampshire. Reported 15th June Four new ground shots of the formation Winterbourne Bassett, Nr Avebury, Wiltshire. Reported 1st June. ************************************************************************ * Check out these Crop Circle Pens and Mugs at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/lucyP.html Click on the bottom of the mug ************************************************************************ ** UPDATE ON THE OLIVER`S CASTLE VIDEO By Lee Winterson at: http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 27 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:26:42 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 27 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 27 July 6, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor PATHFINDER MAKES SAFE LANDING ON MARS Cushioned by an array of airbags, the USA's Pathfinder spacecraft made a safe landing on the planet Mars Friday afternoon, July 4, 1997. The craft began its 390-million-mile voyage on December 4, 1996, when it rocketed away from Cape Canaveral, Florida. It touched down at about 1:05 p.m. Eastern USA time in an ancient floodplain called Ares Vallis. It was the third soft landing of an American spacecraft on Mars. The first, Viking 1, landed 21 years earlier, on July 4, 1976, while its partner spacecraft, Viking 2, touched down on September 20, 1976. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California began receiving black-and-white camera images of the Martian surface almost immediately afterward. Full-color photos of Ares Vallis were unveiled at the JPL press briefing at 6 p.m. Pacific time Friday night. The next phase of the mission is to deploy the 23-pound robot exploration vehicle, Sojourner, for a tour of the landing site. (Editor's Comment: For an outwash floodplain, Ares Vallis is littered with an awful lot of rocks and boulders. In the first color photo, I saw at least one outcrop of bedrock, which means there was some geological uplift after the gargantuan flood that created the valley. The boulders also show surprisingly little windblown erosion, which is strange because Mars is buffeted all the time by colossal dust storms. I'm starting to wonder if Immanuel Velikovsky was right about Mars undergoing some tremendous cataclysm in the not-so-distant past.) THOUSANDS CONVERGE ON ROSWELL FOR CELEBRATION Thousands of UFO enthusiasts converged on Roswell, New Mexico this week for UFO Encounter '97. Attendees included well-known ufologists such as Michael Lindemann and Stanton G. Friedman, "ancient astronaut" theorist Erich von Daniken, and Paul Davids, producer of the Showtime movie "Roswell." Participants began arriving before Tuesday, July 1, 1997, and by the week's end, the events were jammed with onlookers. Tour operators ferrying visitors to the alleged crash site on Hub Corn's farm north of town were running over 50 bus trips per day. On Wednesday, July 2, 1997, one busload of site visitors saw two U.S. Air Force F-16 fighter jets fly low over the mesa where a silvery UFO shaped like the heel of a man's shoe was said to have crashed fifty years earlier. (See USA Today for July 3-6, 1997; the New York Daily News for July 5, 1997; and the New York Post for July 4, 1997.) UFO SIGHTED IN ROCHESTER, NEW YORK On Saturday, June 29, 1997, at 3:30 a.m., a man stepped out onto his backyard deck in the northern section of Rochester, New York (population 241,741). "I was looking up at the stars from my deck, which I often do in the summer before I got to bed," he reported. "In the northwest portion of the sky, yet relatively overhead, I saw a light slightly dimmer than the other stars move. It then became slightly brighter than the surrounding stars, and made a movement similar to the bottom half of an S, like a small, round half-a-turn. I was pretty amazed and watched it as it grew dim, until I couldn't see it any more. As I was straining to pick it out, suddenly in the western sky, much lower on the horizon, appeared what I would typically say is a shooting star, flashing across the sky." "Now that my curiosity was peaked, I stayed out and kept watching the northern sky, which would be over Lake Ontario." He then spied "a very faint light which I could barely pick out...traveling at quite a pace north, faster than any conventional aircraft or satellite would travel. It had the capability of reaching the northern horizon in, say, about a minute or less. It seemed to waggle and not travel straight." The resident is age 38 and a technician who said he "was pretty amazed at what I saw." (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for this report.) LUMINOUS CLOUDS APPEAR OVER MESA VERDE RUINS On Monday, June 23, 1997, the same evening that residents of Las Vegas reported a giant V-shaped UFO north of their city, a weird phenomenon occurred at Colorado's Mesa Verde National Park, 45 miles (72 kilometers) west of Durango. The phenomenon occurred at approximately 9:30 p.m. and was seen by three local residents--a woman descending Mancos Hill and a married couple in the western end of Montezuma County, near Cortez (population 7,095). The witnesses saw "clouds filled with light, appearing for about 13 seconds." One person said it resembled "a little cloud with the moon shining out from underneath, except that there were no clouds and the moon was not over in that part of the sky." The phenomenon appeared to be centered over the cliffside adobe ruins built by the Anasazi Indian civilization of 750 A.D. Other statements described it as "like a cone- shaped light shining out...a spotlight...the color was yellow, almost like a 'bug light.'" (See Cortez, Colo. newspaper for June 26, 1997, page 1. Many thanks to Barbara Milicevic, Colorado state director of Skywatch International, and Tim Edwards for this news story.) MORE UFOs FLY OVER VICTORVILLE, CALIFORNIA A luminous UFO appeared over Victorville, California (population 14,220) at 11:45 p.m. on Friday, June 20, 1997. The following night, Saturday, June 21, at around 10 p.m., a second UFO was seen over the city, located about 45 miles (72 kilometers) northeast of Los Angeles. Both sightings were reported on the local TV station on Monday, June 23, 1997. Previously, Victorville was visited by a glowing reddish-orange sphere the night of March 13, 1997, the same night as the big UFO flap in Arizona. (Many thanks to Victor M. Sandoval for this news story.) NEW UFO SIGHTING IN THE PERSIAN GULF A mysterious bright light was spotted flying high in the air off the coast of Bahrain, an Arab nation in the Persian Gulf the night of Friday, June 13, 1997. According to reports by the Gulf News Agency (GNA), the anomalous light "was the size of a Boeing 747 and made no sound," and was "17 or 18 nautical miles" offshore. This was the second UFO seen in the Persian Gulf in recent months. In May, an Arab colonel and several friends spotted one at his farm at Hatta in Dubai. Local ufologist M.A. Al-Adwani interviewed one eyewitness in Bahrain, who said he "was frozen in terror when he saw that his room was flooded with bright light for a few seconds, and disappeared. He told his oldest brother who called me for clarification." (Many thanks to M.A. Al-Adwani for this report.) (Editor's Comment: Sounds as if this UFO was trying to run the Allied air blockade and get into southern Iraq.) STRANGE LIGHTS SEEN OVER AUSTRALIA'S CAPITAL The second half of June saw no let-up in the UFO traffic over Australia. The island continent reported another heavy flap between June 25 and June 30, 1997. On Wednesday, June 18, 1997, at 5:10 p.m., residents of Canberra, Australia's capital, reported seeing "three or four bright yellow lights in the western sky. Two of the illuminations were pencil-shaped." The following evening, Thursday, June 19, 1997, at 9:15 p.m., people in the Terry Hills suburb of Sydney "reported sighting a dark, oval-shaped object with square windows and read lines coming out of it, heading in a northwesterly direction." A "line or tube-shaped illumination" was seen in several large Australian cities on Friday, June 20, 1997. The object first appeared over Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) at 5:10 p.m. Five minutes later, it was seen over Melbourne, and then an hour later, at 6:15 p.m., over Adelaide. Finally, at 9 p.m., residents of Sydney caught a glimpse of the UFO. Following a relatively quite week, the UFOs resumed their overflights in Victoria (Vic.) on Thursday evening, June 26, 1997. At 5:10 p.m., a resident of Bendigo, Vic. sighted "a long, tube-shaped brown object." Another witness reported, "It had some sparkle things at each end of it." The following evening, Friday, June 27, 1997, at about 5:15 p.m., another Bendigo resident reported seeing "a darkish line or oblong object heading west." That same Friday evening, at around 5:30 p.m., people living in the Blue Mountains of New South Wales (N.S.W.) saw "a jet-black twister (wind storm) (or tornado--J.T.) shaped object with a white, teardrop-shaped object underneath corkscrewing to the west. Bearings were taken--10 degrees north of due west (when) first sighted at 45 degrees up (from the horizon--J.T.), and it took four minutes to travel to the horizon." Twenty-four hours later, between 5:19 and 5:23 p.m. on Saturday, June 28, 1997. Blue Mountains residents called Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline to report "that they had videoed two vertical pink-red illuminated lines travelling downwards in the western sky for four minutes. They said that as these vertical lines descended and got closer to the horizon, the lines changed to a V-formation. It appeared that there was also something else with these lined formations. Images are available at this URL: http://www. geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/picpg.htm (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for allowing UFO ROUNDUP to quote from his report.) LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN ALL OVER SAO PAULO STATE On Sunday, June 29, 1997, between 6 p.m. and 6:30 p.m., luminous UFOs were seen over two large cities in Brazil's state of Sao Paulo. The UFOs appeared simultaneously over Nova Odessa, S.P. and Americana, S.P., plus a handful of smaller communities. In Nova Odessa, a rancher named Antonio Silva Barbosa grabbed his videocamera and shot footage of "two circular illuminations, which moved about rapidly and emitted a blinding light as they flew over." Silva Barbosa described the UFOs as "balls of fire." In Americana, Jose Roberto Moreira spotted three glowing UFOs. "They were visible for three minutes in the middle of the sky," he reported, "The smallest was just as brilliant as the others. All three were moving in the same westerly direction." UFO reports also flooded in that evening from smaller cities of the region, including Cosmopolis, Holambra, Itapira and Paulinia. Residents of these communities claimed to have seen the "fireballs" off and on during the past three weeks. (See the Brazilian newspaper Diario do Povo for July 2, 1997, "Luzes Estranhas Sao Filmadas Nos Ceus da Regiao." Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha para esas noticias.) CRESCENT-SHAPED UFO SIGHTED NORTH OF DALLAS Weird crescent-shaped UFOs and black helicopters have been playing a strange game of cat-and-mouse in the suburbs north of Dallas, Texas during the past month. On May 21, 1997, residents of a suburb known as The Colony spotted "a black, double-rotor helicopter (Boeing Vertol CH-47 Chinook--J.T.) flying low, making lots of noise and circling the pasture behind our house." On June 7, 1997, at around 9 p.m., Amy H. went out to her car and saw "a huge, yellow-orange cescent moon." After a brief drive around the block, she returned home and began sorting firewood. Then she "noticed it had started to eclipse and was rapidly shrinking...I went back to sorting my wood and then realized the moon just does NOT eclipse that fast. I looked up again and the 'moon' was back in full crescent. So I stood there and watched it. It started 'eclipsing' again, and that's when I knew something was wrong." Amy ran indoors to fetch her videocamera, but when she returned, the "crescent moon" was gone. Days later, Amy spoke on the telephone with a family who had seen a similar UFO in northern Texas. No sooner had she finished speaking to the other witnesses than "a large, charcoal-colored military plane, a smaller plane right behind and a helicopter behind the smaller plane flew over my house at 4:15 p.m." The planes circled the house "while the helicopter flew to the northwest and circled the exact spot where I'd seen the crescent-shaped object on the (June) 6th... I filmed the helicopter as it flew in low, tight circles...It did this for about 20 minutes, flew off to the northwest, returned 10 minutes later and circled again for 20 minutes, then flew directly overhead and went south (towards Dallas)." On Friday, June 27, 1997, around 10:45 p.m., Amy and her daughter were in the backyard swimming pool, looking to the north and talking "when we saw a huge bright flash directly north of where we were looking. It lit up the entire area and half the sky. We were amazed by what we had just witnessed and thought it might have been a plane crashing, a meteor, an explosion or something really big blew up." "Within three to four minutes of this bright flash/ explosion, we saw a helicopter fly in from the northwest," Amy added. "It began circling the area where we saw the flash/explosion and was shining two bright beams of light on the ground as if searching the area. I grabbed my videocamera and filmed it. It circled real low and shined the beams of light all over the area, would land over there for awhile, and then circle some more for about 20 minutes. Finally, it flew off to the northwest but returned about 10 to 15 minutes later and started circling and then landing with the beams of light on." Reviewing the video, Amy noticed something odd. "At one point, I saw a little blinking light flying around out in the field, and it flew around, looped towards the helicopter light and disappeared. In playing the videotape back in slow motion, we found that the little blinking light goes directly up to the helicopter and seems to 'merge' with it. It really looks strange, so I am hoping to send the footage off for analysis." (Email Interview) from the UFO Files... 1947: EX-FIGHTER PILOT SPOTS UFO OVER NEW HAMPSHIRE (Here's another actual UP news story from the big UFO Flap of 1947. Enjoy!) Portsmouth, N.H. (UP) -- Thomas M. Dale, son of Gov. Charles M. Dale of New Hampshire and president of Yankee Airways today (July 8, 1947) was among the saucer-spotters. The former World War II flier said he saw a "mysterious flying object--a long, thin metal thing going about 700 miles an hour--" as he was making an air trip from Laconia to Wolfeboro early last night (July 7, 1947). Dale said he saw the object when he looked down over Alton Bay. It was flying east towards Wolfeboro, he said, apparently motorless and pilotless. He said it looked like a gray solid metal material flying at 1,000 feet. His plane was flying at 2,800 feet when he spotted the projectile, he said. Corroborating his statement was A.B. Skinner of the Lakes Region Flying Service at Wolfeboro, who said he saw the object pass overhead in an easterly direction at about the same time Dale reported seeing the object." (See the Keene, N.H. Sentinel for July 9, 1947, page 1.) (Today is Double Feature Day, readers, in honor of the 50th Anniversary of the Roswell incident, so read on...) 1947: SAUCERS APPEAR OVER MALLARDVILLE, B.C. The mystery of the "flying saucers" became more and more mystifying to local residents over the weekend as six persons, three of them residents of Mallardville, laid claim to having seen the flashing discs streaking through the sky at noon-time on Sunday (July 6, 1947). Antoine Beauregard, painter, said he was working on a house during the afternoon and suddenly saw "a shiny aluminum disc" cross the sky "at a height of about 15 miles." "It was about 300 feet long," said Mr. Beauregard. "My eyesight is very, very good, and I can judge distance and height accurately." A Columbian reporter who tried to catch up with Mr. Beauregard but he was not at his work. He was seen along Columbia street early this morning but the reporter was unable to find him to get his story of the cavorting crockery. Mrs. Beauregard said she knew little of what her husband saw. "My husband said that he saw a shiny, round disc, bigger than most and sort of squared off on one side. (Interesting! See descriptions of the crashed Roswell saucer--J.T.) That's all I really know about it." Others laying claim to having seen the "saucers" were Mrs. V.M. Bailey, Mrs. Edward Vere and Mrs. Carol Watkins, who were sitting on the steps of the Old Orchard Auto Camp about 4 p.m. Sunday when they saw "a cloud of dust like two small tornadoes on the hill toward New Westminster." According to their report, three discs then pulled up from behind the trees." (See the newspaper The Columbian for July 8, 1947. Many thanks to Bill Oliver and the gang at UFO*BC for making this old news clipping available at their website.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: More "Flap of '47" newspaper accounts are available at UFO*BC's website. Check them out at http://www.ufobc.org Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, with its new and updated features, at this URL...http://www. digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be downloaded from our site at http://www.digiserve.com/ ufoinfo/roundup/ If you see a UFO story in your local newspaper, clip it out and mail it to us at UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886. If you have a UFO to report, email us with all the details at Masinaigan@aol.com. That's it for this week. Some week, eh? The first Mars landing in 21 years and the big celebration in Roswell. For our readers in Venezuela, here's hoping you had a great time on your "Dia de Independencia" yesterday. Join us next week for more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:41:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:45:09 -0400 Subject: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 'What I Did On Summer Vacation' John Velez ........................................................................... {NOTE: Would anyone receiving this please give it the widest distribution possible. If you do, please be sure to credit UFO UpDates, Toronto, updates@globalserve.net as its source. Thank you. JV} ........................................................................... Dedicated to: MM. You were there with a flashlight when I stumbled in the dark. I will love you and cherish our new friendship for all the days I have left in this world. Thank you for sharing some of your profound wisdom with this poor ignorant pilgrim. John ........................................................................... To ALL, As I sat in the airport in Abuquerque,(New Mexico) awaiting the boarding call for my flight home from the 50th Anniversary Roswell festivities, I was approached by a child of no more than three or four years of age. I was wearing a tee-shirt (the only thing I bought for myself at this orgy of crass commercialism) that depicted an extremely well drawn group of Grey aliens waving in a sort of 'greeting', and it had gotten his attention. "Those are the aliens," he declared. And without missing a beat he continued in a very 'matter of fact' tone with, "They come for me and they take me. They take me out of my house into that big light outside and they make me a zombie. I can't move!" (He held his little arms out in front of him like Frankenstein and stiffened his little body in order to illustrate it for me.) I asked him if he was afraid of them, and he replied with a very confident sounding, "No!" Whereupon he spun on his heels and redirected his attention to his slightly older brother (who had been standing close by listening and waiting) so that they could continue a 'running game' that they had been playing. I was devastated! I had to quickly turn my face to the window so that all of the strangers surrounding me would not see the tears that had begun to well up in my eyes. An abductee from California that I had been sitting and speaking with asked me, "Why are you crying John?" With a massive lump in my throat that barely allowed me to speak, I managed to croak, "He's just a baby!" She asked me if I was crying for him, or myself. After a brief second of contemplation I answered, "Both of us,...ALL of us." She then attempted to comfort me by telling me that it was "alright." About how "wonderful" it was that the child's parents (who had been sitting across from us, and who had heard and followed every word of the exchange between myself and their child) were not, "discouraging or denying the boys belief in the aliens." !!!?!!! Ahh, does anybody see anything wrong (here) in the rather 'cavalier' attitude displayed by my fellow 'abductee'? I was so swept up in emotion that I didn't even respond. I figured, why bother! If she couldn't see all of the myriad and terrible implications of this child's response to me and a mere image of the aliens, then it would just (probably) either go over her head, piss her off or, simply be dismissed as a lack of 'enlightenment' on my part. She never applied the brakes long enough to question whether (maybe) the parents had coached junior for ugly purposes I wouldn't want to contemplate. Not to mention the psychological issues that the child would have to deal with, whether the experiences are actual or not. She just automatically (assumed) that the experiences were real and worse yet, thought that it was "alright". And she did so without thought or hesitation. I find that alarming. If enough people feel that way then for all intents and purposes the "Invasion" is over. The aliens win, good or bad, this rock and all its inhabitants are theirs. In Spanish its, "No les contestamos" (we will not contest/answer the challenge.) Toddlers are spontaneous and ALWAYS brutally honest little critters. I know,... I've raised two to adulthood. I believed the child too, but it didn't stop me from asking all the 'right' questions in my own head. I was upset at ALL of the possible scenarios that could have motivated that sweet, innocent child to say the things he did, and to respond to my tee-shirt in such an unsettling (to me) manner. This experience capped off three days of non-stop breakthrough revelations and learning experiences for me. The whole of the three days that I spent in Roswell served to crystallize and confirm a great many things for me. Things that had been rumbling around underneath the surface with me for quite some time now. Things, that until now I have been unable to give expression to because I had not clothed them in words. That's what this post is all about. =========================================================================== 'The People' After almost five years of deep involvement in trying to educate/condition the public about the alien presence on OUR world, I have arrived at the conclusion that THE ONLY THING that will convince people completely is an overt demonstration on the part of the aliens. One that would be undeniable to ALL, and tantamount to an open declaration of their presence here. It is my belief that NOTHING short of (that) will do. It's (sadly) just the way it is, and just about what it's going to take. In the (final) analysis, it really is, "up to them!" (The aliens) The Roswell celebration was a perfect example of the basic impotence of the UFO community in this regard. With the exception of the presentation of "scientific evidence" that a fragment "allegedly" from the original Roswell crash debris field was of "extraterrestrial origin," (I am using the word 'allegedly' only because Derrel Sims & Co. are not yet prepared to reveal its source) and Linda Moulton Howes' excellent lecture on the mass sighting over Phoenix, Arizona on March 13th of this year, the rest of it was pretty much 'been dere, done dat'! Although, if anyone from the Harvard hierarchy had attended a 'certain lecture' they would have quickly found themselves in the 'priest defrocking' business. <evil grin> My God, the man is _supposed to be_ an academic, _not_ a New Age priest! Direct quote: " Fifteen seconds with the aliens is equivalent in terms of spiritual growth to fifteen years of meditation." !!! I've done BOTH, he's wrong! And what "study" helped him to arrive at his figures and conclusions? I'm sorry, I believe I missed that one. "Wow, Velez is really sounding cynical here" I hear some saying. Well, if it is, it's a cynicism based on (first hand) knowledge, disgust with the 'state of affairs' in UFOlogy, and personal (first hand) experience. I've paid my freaking dues twice over. Most of it isn't really any one individuals fault, it's just the 'nature of the beast.' But it _is_ a position and set of beliefs that I have arrived at honestly. (As anyone who knows me will testify.) =========================================================================== 'The UFOlogists' Anyone who attempts to responsibly and carefully research and write about the subject of UFO's must (of necessity) dedicate huge amounts of time, labor, and personal resources to the task. Unless one is 'independantly wealthy' (which few in the field are,) then the necessity of seeking "compensation" for all of the above becomes imperative. People must eat and keep the rain off their heads. This seeking of compensation in a rather limited market breeds fierce competition for that almighty (and always hard to acquire,) buck! So, what (we) end up with is finger pointing, incessant 'in' fighting, public character assassination and a really strange form of cannibalism which involves eating one's own. The end result for all is, a weakened and highly divided/polarized constituency among the UFO community. I don't want to be a part of that, OR to contribute to it in any way. I am never fond of being referred to as a "ufologist" at any time, or in any sense of the word. Now I don't care what anybody thinks or says of them as individuals, but while I was in Roswell I watched honest, intelligent, and dedicated people like Kevin Randle, Stan Freidman, (Gentlemen, my apologies for putting your names together in the same sentence!<G>) John Mack, Budd Hopkins, Whitley Strieber, Linda Moulton Howe, Mike Lindemann, etc. etc. etc. going virtually sleepless while running around trying to spread the 'word'. The sad truth is, that rather than unify us, their individual efforts seem only to split people into 'camps'. Among the abductionists there's the "Mack camp", the "Strieber camp," and the "Hopkins camp." Among the "Roswellians" we have the "Friedman camp," the "Randle camp," and (now) the "Corso camp!" (I'm too flogging old for "camp" so count me out!) And this fragmentation, this sub-division among members of the UFO community (whatever the hell that is) continues on and on ad nauseam and includes almost any and all that have written a book or given a talk on the subject. In fact, I'm going to give you a glaring example of one of the things that is terribly wrong with modern 'ufology' in one whack. Here's an advert for an 'upcoming'. Check _this_ out! ***************** "August 1997 will find The (organization name deleted) back on the AM Radio from (call letters deleted) in (Town name deleted). The (name deleted) Show will also be hosted by (name deleted), and will include live interviews in studio and via telephone. Michel Langevin, the publisher of Magical Blend Magazine will do a weekly New Age Music Review, authors will include Lynn Andrews, Dr. Hans Holzer, Jan and John Price, Raymond Fowler, Beatrice Stone and Lynneclaire Dennis to name a few. Other guests will include Dr. Richard Boylan, Ph.D., Channelers Paula Farmer (Elvis, John Lennon and JFK), Cliff Preston, psychic Barbara Swift, astrologer Kerwin Mcleister, Dr. Roger Leir and Derrel Sims, just to name a few." ***************** Stuff like this really rattles my cage. It's unfu**ing real! They're not kidding either, this is a serious and very real advertisement folks, as Jack Paar used to say, "I kid you not!" To me, it reads like something that could have been co-written by Mel Brooks and Rod Sterling. <G> Everybody's familiar with the Spanish dish, "Arros con Pollo." (Spanish style rice with chicken, which contains many and varied tasty ingredients.) Well, in Spanish we sometimes use it as an analogy by altering (bastardizing) it into, "Arros con culo." "Culo" in Spanish is slang for "ass." Implying that whatever the phrase, "Arros con culo" is being applied to is a, "contains everything, including the kitchen sink type of deal which (even includes) meat from someone's ass!" That's what ufology has become in our time, just one big, "Arros con culo!" The above 'ad' illustrates this point clearly, (the lack of sanity, focus and unity) and brings it into a very sharp focus. One or maybe two (serious people) are being presented,... no, make that, (lumped) together with charlatans, (including one super paranoid conspiracy nut that should be on heavy medication) and an array of assorted snake oil salesmen. (I leave it to the readers intelligence and discretion to determine which is which! <VBG>) The whole current situation in ufology is untenable, inefficient, and just downright counter-productive. Nowhere do I see attempts being made to garner consensus, or to unify or galvanize the UFO community into a force worthy of respect or consideration. Think of the resources we'd have if we pooled them. What I _do_ see is a group of tremendously gifted, bright and dedicated folks competing with each other for interviews, support, and air time. They are all, every man Jack of them, scattering their energies in every which direction. What a shame that we live in a world where a Michael Jordan is worth millions, and where teachers for example or the brave and courageous pioneers such as some of those I have mentioned, have to scramble around and dedicate so much of their energies to eking out a living. Sometimes publicly shredding and humiliating each other in the process. It has been painful for me as a private citizen/abductee that cares about elevating the public awareness and consciousness of this phenomenon to witness this shameful 'in house' bickering and fighting. (SF & KR are ya listenin!) My prayer for all of us is, that _one_ day all of this will change and become a thing of the past. It'd be nice to see a world where we can learn to put aside our differences and pool our resources rather than squandering them or scattering them to the four winds. A world where honest, intelligent, sincere, real and just plain sweet ordinary people, (like my dear and beloved Rebecca Schatte from the Great State of Texas, to mention just one) who have valid questions and points to make are acknowledged and recognised in the same way (and with the same amount of attention and respect) as a 'Strieber' or a 'Randle' would recieve. No one knows _her_ name though. Not as many as know 'Striebers' anyway. The fact that only a certain few are considered "experts" or worthy of attention speaks volumes. "Divide and conquer" the saying goes. We need to unite,...or we will all perish as a community. I am willing to help anyone who is working towards the goals of unification and consensus. To ufology as it exists today however, I say, "BAH, HUMBUG!" And _that's_ coming from 'alien spawn'! John Velez, 7/7/97 -continued- =========================================================================== * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 *** FUNKY SCIENCE NEWS FLASH! *** From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 20:29:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:01:57 -0400 Subject: *** FUNKY SCIENCE NEWS FLASH! *** UFO in the news? What is infinite? A teeny tiny little biddie minuscule extreemly minute very small scale endless redundant perpetuity of wondering what infinity is. Logic is not hereditary... Deal with it! I could say something funny here but after all, this is a science newsflash so if you were expecting humor you'll have to dry up cause this is serious funky science. This weeks science hero is Al Gore for his contributions in color coordination for knowing just what suit and tie blends well with saffron as color analysis of his Temple appearance photos show. "Barnacle Bill the Mars Rock" is a term that will go down in history as a memory marker of when the election contributions investigations started. That Mars has now been implicated as a contributor is no small wonder because after all, it's Red ain't it? If your interest is in observation of the convolutions of history as it unfolds, then don't miss Art Bell cause that is where the news of such activity is made available in unclassified/declassified objective form. Art's postulate is that mans symbiotic relationship with the whole of nature is "Quickening" and that the immediate future is headed towards "something" of a dire nature. Art has propounded his theory based on obervation of news events and notes the acceleration of things that are not nice to even think about. Don't miss http://www.artbell.com Goodby till next time. Keep your Ph 7. Penchbeck GPG key -------------------------------------------------- 110110110 -------------------------------------------------- Funkey Science News Flash is sponsored in part by: Foundation for the Liberation of Trapped Gas. - U.S. Congress Texas Fire Ant Erradication Program Friends of the Narwhale (c) 1997 Penchbeck Tidings The contents of this news flash is public domain. ======================================================== ==================================================== http://www.crossfields.com Offering Secure Transaction Processing Crossfields Inc., Delivers! - If no algorithm can be found, We'll make one up! Custom CGI for Web Pages and Content Crossfields, Inc. 458 Plantation Drive Suite 217 Lake Jackson, Texas 77566 http://www.crossfields.com ====================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:09:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:58:54 -0400 Subject: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest Just... back... circuits... overloaded... attempting... download... Mission accomplished: A Research Center expeditionary force (2 adults & 3 children) successfully penetrated Roswell at the height of the Great Loonfest and got out alive. We lasted only about 20 hours in town. We were charmed, then amused, then annoyed, then SCREAMING TO GET THE HELL OUT. Best thing I can equate it to is some town in Idaho holding an annual Potato Festival. Everyone eats potatos, gets dressed up as potatos, crowns a Potato Queen. Nothing very deep or useful, just potatos, and by the end of the day you've had quite enough. Replace spuds with aliens, and you have the Great Roswell Loonfest of 1997. It was an exercise in alien merchandising and cute alien events no more substantial than cotton candy. If no UFO ever crashed near Roswell in 1947, then the celebration was a harmless giggle -- equivalent to a potato festival. If, however, the Roswell Incident was REAL, then this 50th anniversary event was one of the saddest display that humanity has ever put on. This is how we are presenting ourselves to the universe: as a horde of shallow Ferengi whose only manner of relating to other worlds is through the buying and selling of souvenirs. The array of alien-related merchandise was astounding: Hundreds of booths selling every conceivable item you can stamp an alian face on. Some items were creative enough to bring a smirk to our face, but the information content was still zero. I did not attend any of the $10 lectures but heard nothing to indicate that they were worth the cost. Just the usual speakers grinding their usual axes in an environment where nearly every claim is accepted except intelligent ones. (You could have heard the same on Art Bell for free.) I'm sure there were a dozen astounding revelations, but none I would believe. The UFO vendors were clustered around the Roswell Convention Center, with a midway and tons of media outside. Inside the "Alien Trade Show," I spotted Philip Corso and his son ambling about. Corso's co-writer William Birnes was also in Roswell, although I did not see him. I am told that he has a prominent affiliation with Soldier of Fortune Magazine. (The owner of it?) What does this say about Corso? We couldn't get near the "International UFO Museum and Research Center", but since I had been there a couple of years ago, I don't think I missed anything. This is also a big alien souvenir outlet. They do sell some books, too, but I was told by a journalist that they decline to sell any book that is critical of the Roswell crash claims -- only those that toe the "party line." Is this research or religion? One beacon of light: The Bureau of Land Management had a small booth at the trade fair, manned by their public relations officer, and HE SOLD LOCAL MAPS. I thought it ironic that only the federal government could provide any useful information. This booth was the only one I can recall that sold the Randle and Schmitt books that are the cornerstone of the pro-Roswell arguments. BLM also gave away a FREE flyer with directions to the alleged crash site on BLM land. It was on the only island of data in the UFO wasteland that was Roswell. UFO burgers, UFO drinks, "Crash With Us" on motel marquees... Driving down Main Street was a numbing experience. Turn on the radio, and ninety percent of the local ads - for everything from cars to insurance - made some kind of cutesie alien reference. Doesn't anyone in this town have any dignity? There is no way that Rachel, Nevada, can compete with Roswell as the "UFO Capital". Rachel is just a couple of Joes selling T-shirts, while Roswell is big league alien exploitation. The town was crowded, but not much more than, say, a busy summer day at a beach resort. I am proud to say that we spent not one cent at local merchants. (I bought only some books & maps at the trade show.) We camped on BLM land outside of town, and saw no one else out there. This was a blessed relief, because Roswell did not give us any reason to love humanity. We needed to visit the Great Loonfest to say we had done it, but I never want to see Roswell again. We left town by the afternoon of the 4th and headed for Lubbock, Texas, hometown of our Assistant Director. Ah, Lubbock! Paradise on Earth! It was a pleasure to go someplace where there were no alien references. It is times like this when I realize just how alone we are in the universe -- and here on Earth. Glenn +---------------------------------------------------------+ | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ufomind Webmaster | | | | www.ufomind.com - "World's Largest and Best Organized | | Website for UFOs and the Paranormal" | | | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +---------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 {77} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:05:21 -0400 Subject: {77} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' July 10th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 77 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {77} part 1 or part 2 In this issue: Editorial --------- Appologies USAF Roswell press release 24th June 1997 Problems with downloading Real Audio files? Real Audio IRC (Internet Relay Chat) NASA TV live in the UK Sightings on the Radio Nick Pope 1000 + subscribers - special - Book title 'A Fearful Symmetry' Author: Lynne Bishop United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] British Aerospace Teams With Lockheed Martin on Joint Strike Fighter World News ---------- [W 1] Full transcript USAF press release on Roswell [W 2] From USAF library - Roswell Report - Executive summary [W 3] From USAF library - Roswell Report - Info & cost! [W 4] To bodly go where no mannequin's gone before [W 5] Air Force says Roswell 'space aliens' were dummies [W 6] Report: Roswell 'aliens' were crash dummies [W 7] Air Force marks Roswell "case closed" [W 8] Press conference July 4th - scrap of metal from off world [W 9] Ball of Light Sighted - Australia Letters ------- Crash Dummies! Book Review ----------- Beyond Roswell Editorial --------- Appologies - to those of you who have mailed me recently with reports etc and have not yet had a reply. I have spent the last two weeks installing and setting up a new PC. When time has allowed I have been copying files from one machine to the other via a link cable. Non of your high tech back up systems here. It has taken a long time. However things are now just about back to normal. USAF Roswell press release 24th June 1997 - We make no appologies for the vast majority of this issue being taken up with information on the USAF recent press release. Once again this is history in the making. It is important that we make ourselves as fully aware as possible of the situation. Problems with downloading Real Audio files - Some members will be aware that there have apparently been problems downloading some Real Audio (RA) files from the uk.ufo.nw web site. Presently we can only speak for PC users running Windows. When a RA link is selected an option window should appear giving you the choice of where you want to save the file to on your hard drive. Some of the RA links do not give you this choice. The RA file downloads fully, loads you RA player then plays the audio file. Where has the RA file been saved to? Thanks to Crow for the answer to this. Look in your Windows/Temp directory and you will see the file sitting there in all it's glory for you to move about as you wish. Real Audio - On 24th June 1997, Col. John Haynes of the Unites States Air Force gave a press conference at the Pentagon. This latest release would have us believe that the bodies 'alien' seen at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 were "probably" crash dummies. Here is the full 22 minute press release in Real Audio format along with the transcript. Point your browser at url: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk - Select Real Audio button If you are interested in UFO related Real Audio files you will find many more at url: http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ IRC (Internet Relay Chat) - By now most of you will be aware that you can join our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC simply by using your web browser (see foot of e-zine for full details). If you want to be a little more adventurous and perhaps use one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the excellent MIRC visit the below url for beginners and others: Frames: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light/irchelp.htm No frames: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light/page/chat_how.htm NASA TV live worldwide - Unfortunately we here in the UK and many other parts of the world are unable to recieve the NASA TV channel. However due to the Mars Pathfinder mission we can confirm that there are various web sites which have a live audio and video stream of the NASA TV channel. The real time video is watched via your web browser while the audio obviously come's from your speakers. Point your browsers at urls: http://www.chron.com/content/interactive/space/vdo/ntvlive/ntvlive.vdo http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/pathfinder/multiplex/live/nasatv.htmlhttp ://www.chr on.com/ If you have the program shareware or otherwise 'cuseeme' log into any of the following addresses: Europe: 158.36.33.5 UK: 129.186.112.242 130.235.128.100 139.88.27.43 What we cannot confirm at present is whether these sites will continue to give access to the NASA TV channel once the initial excitment of the Mars Pathfinder mission fades. This is where you come in. We know of the above sites but do you know of any more? Are there any other interesting video streams online? Send any information to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Subject line: Internet Video Sightings on the Radio - Most people are aware of the American TV program 'Sightings'. Did you also know that it has a sister program 'Sightings on the Radio'. This is an excellent radio program which runs for 3 hours six nights a week and is hosted by Jeff Rense. It covers UFOs and the paranormal. Many of the shows guests are the tops in their field and well known to UFO buffs. Once again the show is only available in the USA, that is unless you have an Internet connection. The show is transmitted live via Real Audio, but more importantly they are archived. By visiting the below url you get a brief description of each of the shows. Select the link to the one/s you are interested in and simply listen. Like me you may find it more convenient to record the show on a tape recorder for listening at your leasure. Of particular interest around now is the celebrations taking place in Roswell, New Mexico. Celebrating 50 years since the 1947 incident. Between 50,000 and 100,000 visiters are expected over the five day period. Many of the top ufologists will be there. Thanks to Michael Linderman of CNI News most of these ufologists will be interviewed on the show while at Roswell. Michael Linderman also guests on the show every Wednesday with a line up of the latest UFO reports from around the world. Point your browser at url: http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/ Nick Pope - The third and final part of a look at Nick Popes new book 'The Uninvited' will appear in the next issue {78} of the e-zine. 1000 + subscribers - uk.ufo.nw are pleased to announce that we recently reached and went over the 1000 mark on subscribers. The number of subscribers is steadily growing. Many more read the e-zine via mailing lists, BBS's and other media. - special - Book Title: A Fearful Symmetry Author: Lynne Bishop We are extremely pleased to announce that starting in the next issue of the e-zine {78} we will be serialising the book 'A Fearful Symmetry - A True Story of Alien Intrusion into Human Lives' with a forward by John Carpenter. We know that you will find this book absolutely fascinating and a little frightening. Lynne tells from the heart of her and her families abduction experiences. Don't miss it! United Kingom News ------------------ [UK 1]****** >From bookfndr@cmaster.com Date: Tuesday 24th June 1997 Source: Paris - PRNewswire Date: 18th June 1997 British Aerospace Teams With Lockheed Martin on Joint Strike Fighter Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) and British Aerospace announced today that British Aerospace has joined Lockheed Martin's Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) team in the world's largest-ever military aircraft development and production competition. British Aerospace will participate in all phases of Lockheed Martin's JSF program. British Aerospace has reached an agreement to work in partnership with Lockheed Martin on the $718.8-million contract to produce and fly two concept demonstration aircraft for the JSF program and through to the engineering and manufacturing development and production phases. JSF is being developed for the U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps and the United Kingdom's Royal Navy to replace several types of aircraft in current service with the two nations, including the F-16, F/A-18C/D, AV-8B and Sea Harrier. The Lockheed Martin team was awarded one of two JSF concept demonstration contracts following a multi-year competition completed in November 1996. Sir Richard Evans, Chief Executive of British Aerospace, said: "With a requirement for over 3,000 aircraft, JSF is the most significant trans- Atlantic military program of the 21st century. We are delighted to have reached agreement with Lockheed Martin and look forward to making a significant contribution, particularly in the areas of systems integration, low-cost design and manufacture and short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) technologies." Norman R. Augustine, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Lockheed Martin, said: "This agreement supports our objective of forming mutually beneficial, long-term international partnerships. We are proud to now have both British Aerospace and Northrop Grumman on our team and view their participation as a strong vote of confidence in our JSF program. We will benefit greatly from British Aerospace's capabilities and expertise on our team." British Aerospace's contribution will be led by their Military Aircraft and Aerostructures business, Europe's leading military aircraft company, which has a leading role in a wide range of collaborative programs, including the VSTOL Harrier/AV-8B and Hawk aircraft through to the recently awarded contract for Nimrod 2000, the world's most sophisticated maritime patrol aircraft. Led by its Tactical Aircraft Systems unit in Fort Worth, Texas, Lockheed Martin's JSF team also includes Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems in Marietta, Ga., which contributes F-22 aircraft technology; and Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works advanced technology development and rapid prototyping unit in Palmdale, Calif., where the two JSF concept demonstration aircraft are to be built. The team also includes Northrop Grumman, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls- Royce and Allison. A U.S. government decision on the winning JSF design is scheduled in 2001 with initial aircraft deployment in 2008. SOURCE Lockheed Martin Corporation CONTACT: British Aerospace Press Office, Farnborough, United Kingdom, 44-1252-383550; Lockheed Martin Paris Air Show Chalet, 33-1-41-57-59-22; or Lockheed Martin News and Information, 301-897-6352 -- Regular Email: bookfndr@cmaster.com Email Express: 772554@pager.mirabilis.com World Wide Pager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/772554 Visit The Bookfinder website at: http://bookfinder.simplenet.com IRC Chat: http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm Send your postal address to be placed on the mailing list for The Bookfinder Catalog World News ---------- [W 1]****** United States Air Force Aired 1400hrs 24th June 1997 Col. John Haynes USAF Pentagon Full transcript USAF press release on Roswell COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S AIR FORCE: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm sure I'd like to show you this book, tell you it's $18 and head for the door, but there are two armed guards right there and they're not going to let me out of it that easily. (LAUGHTER) Let me read my prepared statement and then we will roll a short video that Captain McAndrew will talk about. And then I will answer some questions. We're confident once the report is out and digested by the public that this will be the final word on the Roswell incident. The conclusion of the first report left no doubt that what was recovered near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947 was debris from a formerly top secret Army Air Force's research project, Code Name Mogul. Mogul as an attempt to accoustically detect Soviet nuclear blasts and ballistic missile launches. Mogul used an odd assortment of equipment carried aloft by a balloon train more than 600 feet long. This balloon train consisted of 25 balloons, attached acoustic devices and several radar reflectors which look like box kites. In 1947, it was the misidentification of these radar reflectors that is most likely the famous flying disc. Today, we're releasing the final report to address questions about alleged bodies associated with the Roswell story. This report has four main conclusions. If you have your books, turn to page 3. We'll have a lesson. (LAUGHTER) One -- Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years had been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. Two -- bodies observed in the New Mexico desert were probably test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research. Three, the unusual military activities in the New Mexico desert were high-altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations. The reports of military units that always seem to arrive shortly after a crash were actually accurate descriptions of Air Force personnel engaged in the dummy recovery operations. Four, claims of bodies at the Roswell Army air field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents. One was a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives or a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured. That information is in this report. These conclusions are listed in page 3, as I said, of the book. Please roll the video. (VIDEO) The first clip's pretty quick. I'm going start off with some Air Force high-altitude balloon operations, and the first project is going to be a NASA Viking space probe tested in New Mexico. This was launched from Roswell, New Mexico, in 1972 and was recovered on the White Sands missile range, about 100 miles to the west. That is the Voyager, Mars, another test the Air Force did. (OFF-MIKE)... (LAUGHTER) Typical Air Force high-altitude balloon launch operation in the desert of New Mexico. This is during the mid '50s. That's just a comparison of the size. You can see how many airliners you can fit inside a high-altitude research balloon at that altitude. These are just some payloads -- the usual payloads particularly associated with the balloon. Next will be the reconnaissance project Mogul. The project took place in New Mexico in 1947. This is some equipment associated with Project Mogul. There's the famous box kite that became the famous flying disk. The weather balloons that were on the balloon train... That's the tin, paper, rubber and sticks that they recovered in the desert near New Mexico in 1947. Here's what you've all been waiting for, the anthropomorphic dummies, and Joseph W. Kittinger Jr.. That's a typical test dummy used by the Air Force during the 1950s. (LAUGHTER) There's one of the project officers with that particular dummy. It's known as a Sierra Sam, manufactured by Sierra Engineering Corporation. One of the technical reports listed in the bibliography of the report. This is actually a man subject, but that's what the dummies were used for, to test ejection. QUESTION: So, that's not a dummy? HAYNES: That's a man. (LAUGHTER) Here's how the dummies were employed. Two dummies to a rack, somewhere in a gondola. They flew up to 98,000 feet. This launch is in New Mexico. That's an upshot, and there goes the dummy. He would free fall for a period of time and a drug chute would deploy, and the object was to recover a human from a high-altitude aircraft. And they often landed at off-range locations throughout New Mexico, often observed by civilians. This is where the recovery crews are scurrying to recover them, either with aircraft or ground vehicles. This is retired Colonel Joseph W. Kittinger Jr. This is the culmination of the high altitude projects that use the dummies. And that's the Excelsior Three gondola in 1960. And that's Captain Kittinger. That is a world record parachute jump. Still stands today. He free fell for four minutes and 37 seconds. And he did it three times. OK, let me -- yes, ma'am. QUESTION: Why did it take so long to come up with this conclusion? You've come up with many other conclusions. HAYNES: Well, the first report was the GAO-required report for Project Mogul. When Captain McAndrew was doing additional research after that report had been given to the secretary, and we were waiting to publish the second report, he was looking for additional pictures. And he uncovered some film strips of the balloon test and the dummies. And that's when he began to do further research. He sent it up the chain, and they said this is excellent information. It's outstanding scientific research by the Air Force. And we want the public to know about it, because it's the public's information. QUESTION: Colonel, how do you square the UFO enthusiasts saying that they're talking about 1947, while you're talking about dummies used in the '50s, almost a decade later? HAYNES: Well, I'm afraid that's a problem that we have with time compression. I don't know what they saw in '47, but I'm quite sure it probably was Project Mogul. But I think if you find that people talk about things over a period of time, they begin to lose exactly when the date was. And there were lots of dummies dropped. There were about 2,500 balloons launched during this 30-year period in New Mexico alone. QUESTION: Why do you think people in Roswell and elsewhere still don't -- still are not convinced? No matter what you say? HAYNES: I'm sorry, but I just can't answer that question for them. But they must look at the evidence. If you will read this book -- and I'm sure you're going to take it home tonight and read it -- quite frankly, you're going to find some very interesting and quite fascinating pieces of information about Air Force research. Whether you accept that as the Roswell information, I quite frankly don't know. But we do because it overlays so well with this period of time. QUESTION: Colonel, UFO groups also... QUESTION: Excuse me. Sir, does the Air Force regret not declassifying some of this information sooner rather than just the last few years? HAYNES: Great question. Nothing in here was ever classified. In the first report, everything was classified in the '70s. QUESTION: How much did this study cost? HAYNES: That's a good question and quite frankly, we've not captured the data. But let me tell you that we've had no more than one or two people on it -- probably not even full time over the last two years. QUESTION: Colonel, are... HAYNES: I can get that for you but I just don't know because we just got the book on the 10th and I haven't -- I don't know what the publishing costs are. Yes, ma'am. QUESTION: Colonel, let me just clear up two things that you sort of brushed over quickly. Number one was the time frame that people are going to say -- But this is 10 years. How could they possibly make a mistake on the 10 years. And number two -- you said it was never classified, and yet why didn't people at the time say -- Well, my goodness, we were having dummy tests. This explains the answer. HAYNES: Well, the dummy test actually -- you need to get the book. You need to look in there. If you'll look in there, you'll find there are a couple of things in which the dummy tests get lots of media attention, and I should have -- I have it tabbed, and I should be able to find it, but quite frankly, I'm sitting here and my knees are shaking. (UNKNOWN): Twenty-six. QUESTION: But... HAYNES: Page 26. QUESTION: Yes, but explain those two things. HAYNES: OK. There's a picture for that. But let me tell you that I don't know why they can't associate that time period. I'm sorry. I just don't have any information for that. All I know is what the Air Force did, and that if you overlay much of their claims and you look at the Air Force scientific research, you can see it's obvious that what we're talking about at Roswell -- and I don't mean Roswell in '47, because that was Project Mogul, that was unmanned. I want to make that very clear. And that's the first report. But over that period of time, dummies were dropped all around there. And I think it's logical to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come out. They saw gurneys come out. They saw body bags come out because the dummies were put into body bags to protect them. They saw people in pith helmets. They saw people in shorts out there brushing the bushes looking for the remnants of the balloons. And when you put all that stuff together and spin it, you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in Roswell during that era. QUESTION: Except that 10-year period. QUESTION: But they also said that these figures were of much smaller stature than full-size adult figures. How do reconcile that? HAYNES: I don't reconcile that. I just have no idea why they say that. QUESTION: Tell us when the dummies were first used -- what year? HAYNES: Fifty-three. QUESTION: And how many you say numbers of... HAYNES: Well, the actual balloon launchings were about 2,500. The actual number of dummies dropped were -- it's actually in the book and it's very specific, but the number just escapes me. It's more than 300 or 400. Yes, sir. QUESTION: Why did they make it -- the design -- resemble to flying saucer? It makes it very suspicious. HAYNES: A flying saucer? Now, you were talking about in the video? QUESTION: Yes. HAYNES: That's also in here, I might add and you saw it in the video. Some of the -- and you're looking at payloads. Well, what they were doing is they wanted to recover these payloads and so they were testing the parachutes. And I totally agree. If I saw something like that -- I'm riding along out there near Riodoso and I'm wandering out in the desert and I see this funny looking dish out there, I might want to poke around at it. But quite frankly, this is probably what it was. QUESTION: You keep saying -- using the word "probably" and you say closed. Those two don't jive. How do you reconcile that? HAYNES: Yes, you're right. OK. Let me say, from the Air Force's perspective that's exactly what it was. And I don't mean to be rude about that. I want you to understand, we are very, of this report. We think in our office that this answers lots of questions and it answers them logically and with integrity. And one other thing I might add is if you want to do your own research, in the back is a complete, technical report bibliography and also there is a terrific, set of end notes. And I recommend that if you're interested in this, that you take these and you do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Yes, sir. QUESTION: Does the Air Force have any evidence at all of any sort of space craft wreckage or extraterrestrial presence on Earth? HAYNES: No, sir. QUESTION: What is -- can you tell us anything about this myth of Area 51 which has become part of ... (LAUGHTER) .. everything from Hollywood movies to a local legend? What is Area 51? Is there such a place? What does it do? HAYNES: That actually should be outside this brief. Let me ask you a question. If you are talking about Groom Lake, Nevada, is that what you're talking about? QUESTION: I'm talking about the scene everybody remembers from the movie "Independence Day." (LAUGHTER) HAYNES: My daughter asked me the same question. There is a facility in Groom Lake, Nevada. Quite frankly, I have no knowledge or expertise in the matters. I understand there are classified things that go on there and that's all I have to say about it. QUESTION: One followup. How do you know -- I mean, your name is now Colonel John Haynes. It's going to go down in UFO lore as one of the people who took part, in the minds of some people, in the continuing coverup by the government. How do you know that you're not being used? How do you know that you know the full story? (LAUGHTER) That there's no evidence of this? HAYNES: Because our job is to review all the Air Force documents for this era. And that's how we came up with this exciting and interesting and intriguing, quite frankly, report. I know you think that sounds like a broken record, but you need to get in here and read it, and you will see that many of the things that people think they saw correlate perfectly with Air Force research projects. QUESTION: You're confident that you're not part of any coverup, wittingly or unwittingly? HAYNES: I'm totally confident. HAYNES: But I think Colonel Weaver -- you might have seen him on TV earlier -- said it best. We can't even keep single secrets. How could we have a conspiracy or a cover-up? (LAUGHTER) Yes, sir? QUESTION: A question of follow-up to the Groom Lake operating location. Recently there were a lot of sightings out in Arizona of supposed UFOs. Is it possible, within the range of possibility, that any classified aircraft from the Groom Lake area were in that vicinity and this might explain why people are suddenly seeing a lot of strange landing lights and so forth? HAYNES: Well, let me say two things. Number one, as far as Groom Lake, I don't have any knowledge of that area. Forgive me. It's just not within my area of expertise. I don't have the access. End of quote. Secondly, if you're interested in the Arizona question, I suggest that you contact the local authorities in Arizona and see what they have to say, because the Air Force no longer does any investigation of UFOs. Yes, sir? QUESTION: Let's go back to that so-called Area 51, because in people's minds, but you say I can't talk about it because it's classified, conjures up, oh, there it is. There's the cover-up. Can you give us any hint, without violating any sense of confidential nature, what kinds of things might be happening? HAYNES: Sir, I cannot. Forgive me. I just do not know. QUESTION: Is there anyone in the Air Force that can? HAYNES: I'm going to have to defer that to public affairs. It's outside of my area of expertise. Forgive me, but it's just outside of my area of expertise. QUESTION: Can you rule out that Area 51 is only human-made equipment and intelligence? (LAUGHTER) HAYNES: Do we call that leading the witness? Is that what we call it? I'm sorry. I just don't know. Forgive me. It's just not an area that I have knowledge. Yes, ma'am? QUESTION: Colonel, let me just go back one more time to that. You say this is case closed and people should now believe it, but with the major hole, though, you're saying that they're wrong about the date and the date being six years time that they're wrong about. How can you -- what explanation can you give them, other than just saying, well, we just think they're just mistaken by six years? HAYNES: We don't -- I have no other explanation. I'm sorry. I have no other explanation. I'm looking at the facts as we have studied them, and I have no other explanation of that but what I've already given. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 What I did on summer vacation - 2 of 2 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:42:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:53:02 -0400 Subject: What I did on summer vacation - 2 of 2 "Not goodby, just so long for now" John Velez ........................................................................... I need to take a long sabbatical. It was _only_ out of a deep sense of gratitude to Budd Hopkins for all of the help that he freely gave to myself and my family that I consented to do anything 'public' in the first place. I am not now, nor have I ever been a "camera-whore"! (Although I've met several abductees along the way who are!) I have always been a very private person and I need to restore that condition to some extent. If not for Budd, and my deep affection and respect for him, you would _never_ have seen my face or ever have heard my name. I now need to pay some attention to my family and my personal life, but I also need to make it clear that this has nothing to do with Budd. After five years of unpaid hard work it's just time for me to concentrate on my own family and sorely neglected finances. It's not a "take this job and shove it" situation by any stretch of the imagination. My work on the internet on behalf of the Intruders Foundation requires twelve to fourteen hours a day, seven days a week. I'm not related to the Rockefellers, nor does Budd have the funding to pay me for it. I've been supporting myself by doing (side jobs) guitar repairs and adjustments and the occasional printing job in order to generate income. It's simply not enough and it has begun to affect my family. THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE! It's just a simple matter of restoring some sense of balance. In order for that to happen I have to let the pendulum swing back all the way in the opposite direction and hope that it eventually finds a happy middle ground. This 'business' can be (and is) all-consuming. I don't ever want to become 'one dimensional' because all of the data input that's coming in relates to just one issue or subject. I spend so very much time working with people in need that all else has fallen by the wayside. The only source of 'data input' has become UFO or abduction related. That's not a healthy state of affairs and I know it. So, I'm doing what I have to do to remedy the situation. I will continue to maintain the IF website, I am however pulling my name and e-mail address off of it. The folks I am currently working with will be tha last for a while. People can still contact Budd directly at our snail-mail address. Hopefully, when I get some financial issues straightened out and restore some sense of balance in my life, I'll be able to come back and help to carry the stone again. So, this is not a resignation as much as it is a sorely needed sabbatical. Errol's UFO UpDates has always been a fun, relaxing and almost recreational activity for me and I plan to continue my involvement there. I have grown very fond of some of the members of our list and my interactions with them, (After all, I can't be expected to 'kick cold turkey'! <G>) So I'll be around. For now, no more TV or radio interviews, no more conferences, no more lectures, no more work with abductees. (Unless someone is willing to PAY ME for it!) Johnny needs to re-group, re-focus, and tend to some important personal matters that have been badly neglected as a result of my work in ufology. See you guys on the list. John Velez, (Private guy) Ahhh, that felt good to say! <G> * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Re: Back, Brown & Beat... From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:05:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:27:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Back, Brown & Beat... At 01:00 AM 7/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >. . . , Linda Mouldy Cowe still swearing >by the MJ-12 documents _and_ the autopsy footage . . . Errol- I spent only a couple of days at the "circus" and I'm sorry that our paths didn't seem to cross. However, I was at several of the events you mentioned, and we may have actually passed quite close. Your review of the event was fairly close to the mark, but I found your editorial "dig" at Linda to be a bit much. Linda has produced two of the better researched books on the subject that I have ever seen, and a third is now in the works. While I don't necessarily accept her conclusions, she certainly has developed an interesting foundation of information, and deserves better treatment from an editorial standpoint. I have a rather high ranking Air Force friend who is interested in this genre, and his main surprise regarding the Roswell event was that the "Autopsy" footage didn't get more play than it did. He has been recommended for promotion to the rank of "General", and I found that his bringing this question up on his own to be quite interesting. Your skepticism regarding the MJ-12 documents and the "Alien Autopsy" footage is healthy, but if you have any actual evidence to prove that they have been faked, please post it. Skeptics often seem to forget that they must do more than simply show "possibilities" if they are to prove (or disprove) the provenance of "evidence". A number of researchers that I know are highly skeptical of either one or both of these items, but most sit squarely on the fence with regard to their credibility. Proponents have failed to provide the evidence necessary to prove them to be real, but I would suggest that skeptics have also failed to provide "proof" that they have been faked. But my criticism is not that you are skeptical, but rather that the statement was made in such a way as to belittle the person, and not the evidence. You have (I believe) criticized others for making such attacks on the "list". Just a comment, and welcome back. I must admit that I'm glad the system was shut down for the past two weeks, as I really wouldn't want to wade through two weeks of "Updates" material all at once. Peace, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 www.area51-half.com From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:51:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:40:23 -0400 Subject: www.area51-half.com I recently had an e-mail from "mike" <mike@marion.org> asking me to take a look at his website at: http://www.area51-half.com Mike is a UFO sketch artist and after visiting the site I can only recommend others to have a look. If you can't see the funny side of the UFO subject it's not for you, as Mike said: "take a look at the more humorous side of the UFO phenomenon at www.area51-half.com (this site is just for fun so don't take it too seriously)" Hope you like it, John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 {77} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:09:38 -0400 Subject: {77} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' July 10th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 77 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. -[continued]- Yes, sir? QUESTION: Would how would that... HAYNES: Because we've reviewed all the relevant information and we have finished this, and we're not going to re-visit it. And in fact, it's all unclassified. If you have an opportunity on your own behalf, I recommend you get the report, start digging in, get on the Web, see what you can find out. Yes, sir? QUESTION: What leads the Pentagon then to think that it is necessary to respond about this? Why do you have to come up with this report? HAYNES: We actually came up with the report because this is intriguing and fascinating research. You may have noticed this is also the 50th anniversary of the United States Air Force. You may have also concluded that we have been talking about other things about space and things of that nature, and this altitude balloon research is quite fascinating. But it was left in the dust. Something we uncovered, and it's just kind of left in the dust of the space program. It wasn't romantic. Now you have men going up on the end of rockets, and here are guys jumping out of balloons. Kittinger, I believe, broke the speed of sound jumping out of that balloon. Can you imagine that? I mean, I can't imagine it. Yes, sir? QUESTION: Is it possible that the Air Force could have missed something in its investigation? In other words, is it possible that there are unidentified flying objects? That there are extraterrestrial visits, and the Air Force simply has not found it, or been able to detect it? HAYNES: We have researched the Air Force projects and the Air Force information for these year groups. We have nothing else to say about that. You know, we don't believe there's anything else. I don't think -- I have no way of even vaguely believing there's anything else. I promised a gentleman right back here a question. Sir, in the -- yes, sir. QUESTION: About 50 years ago today, an Air Force pilot spied a big array of saucers, supposedly flying over Washington state. That may have started all of this. Does the Air Force think it will never again investigate these reports? Project Bluebook was the end, and that's it? HAYNES: You know, I don't ever want to speak for the Air Force about never again, but it's my opinion that they will not. Yes, sir. QUESTION: Sir, from just a cursory examination of the report, it would appear that the Air Force compiled this information at the request of the GAO, at the request of a New Mexico congressperson, if I'm correct. HAYNES: That was report one, sir. QUESTION: But even given then, even at that time, why then didn't the Air Force provide these very readily explanations for UFO activity, when these questions first started being surfaced? HAYNES: Well, this information was uncovered as we were preparing to publish that first book. We were actually looking for pictures. We had looked at all the information that surrounded 1947, and found absolutely nothing. But as we got into the out years, we realized that the Air Force has some other quite intriguing -- I'll say it one more time -- experiments that were going on, that could be misconstrued. And that's why it was -- that was one of the reasons it was decided to publish the book. Yes, sir. QUESTION: Did Captain McMaster or any of the other analysts come across any evidence apart from the silver paper discs that went over the high altitude balloons that the Air Force conducted during this rather wide timeframe, any other aerodynamic experiments involving manned or unmanned aircraft that looked like flying saucers? HAYNES: Well, you saw the payloads in the book. We saw them in the film. And I think those could easily be confused of that, too. And it is Captain McAndrew. So you'll get the -- yes, sir. QUESTION: But apart from those, going up on the blue, were there any other Air Force experiments that you know of involving craft that looked like flying saucers? HAYNES: No, sir. QUESTION: Whatever experiment (OFF-MIKE)... HAYNES: ... Well, there were some other balloons. And there's some balloon shapes in here you might want to look at too that are very intriguing. In fact, they look a lot like some other people's pictures. Yes, sir. QUESTION: Did you speak to Captain McAndrews? HAYNES: I think she's going to deal with that question when I finish. One more question. QUESTION: Do you believe in UFOs? HAYNES: Personally, no, sir. QUESTION: Why not? HAYNES: Ma'am, I have no reason to believe that they're real. QUESTION: Thank you very much. HAYNES: Thank you, sir. [W 2 ]****** Source: Air Force Link - Library URL: http://www.af.mil/lib/ Roswell Report: Case Closed Executive Summary Roswell Video News Release Copy of Report In July 1994, the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force concluded an exhaustive search for records in response to a General Accounting Office (GAO) inquiry of an event popularly known as the "Roswell Incident." The focus of the GAO probe, initiated at the request of a member of Congress, was to determine if the U.S. Air Force, or any other U.S. government agency, possessed information on the alleged crash and recovery of an extraterrestrial vehicle and its alien occupants near Roswell, N.M. in July 1947. The 1994 Air Force report concluded that the predecessor to the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Army Air Forces, recovered debris from an Army Air Forces balloon-borne research project code named MOGUL. Records located describing research carried out under the MOGUL project, most of which were never classified (and publicly available) were collected, provided to GAO, and published in one volume for ease of access for the general public. This report discusses the results of this exhaustive research and identifies the likely sources of the claims of "alien bodies" at Roswell. Contrary to allegations, many of the accounts appear to be descriptions of unclassified and widely publicized Air Force scientific achievements. Other descriptions of "bodies" appear to be actual incidents in which Air Force members were killed or injured in the line of duty. The conclusions are: Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. "Aliens" observed in the New Mexico desert were actually anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research. The "unusual" military activities in the New Mexico desert were high altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations. Reports of military units that always seemed to arrive shortly after the crash of a flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and "crew," were actually accurate descriptions of Air Force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations. Claims of "alien bodies" at the Roswell Army Air Field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents: 1.) a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives; and, 2.) a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured. This report is based on thoroughly documented research supported by official records, technical reports, film footage, photographs, and interviews with individuals who were involved in these events. [W 3]****** Source: Air Force Link - Library URL: http://www.af.mil/lib/ PRF Online Via GPO Access Title: Roswell Report: Case Closed Stock Number: 008-070-00719-3 Availability: pending reprint decision / no stock whse or retail / priced Price: $18.00 Price (non-U.S.): $22.50 Description: Concerns an alleged crash of an unidentified flying object (UFO) in New Mexico in July 1947. Includes: an introduction; Section One, Flying Saucer Crashes and Alien Bodies; Section Two, Reports of Bodies at Roswelll Army Airfield Hospital; Conclusion; Notes; and several Appendices. The appendices cover: Anthropomorphic Dummy Launch and Landing Locations; Witness Statements; Interviews; Selected Bibliography; Index; and Tables. Contains many black and white photographs. Also advertised with the title: Roswell Report, Case Solved. Publisher: Defense Dept., Air Force, Headquarters Year/pages: 1997: 243 p.; ill. Note: NB1261 Key Phrases: Roswell Incident, Unidentified Flying Objects, Case Closed, Air Force History, Balloon Research, New Mexico, Project Mogul, New Mexico, Roswell, Project High Dive ISBN: 0-16-049018-9 Author: McAndrew, James Weight: 1 lb 9 oz Quantity Price: discount Binding: perfect binding Cover: paper Subject Bibliography: 131IN Status date: 07-01-97 Unit: each Unit (non-U.S.): each [W 4]****** From: Adonnelly ADonnelly@compuserve.com Date: Wednesday 25th June 1997 Source: The Guardian newspaper To bodly go where no mannequin's gone before by Martin Walker in Washington As an expected 100,000 UFO enthusiasts prepared to descend on the tiny New Mexico town of Roswell to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Americas most celebrated alien visitation, the US airforce changed its story yet again yesterday and admitted humanoid forms had indeed been recovered from the area. It was in fact the invasion of the crash test dumies, mannequins designed to test high-altitude parachutes, the airforce declared in a detailed 231 page report which included photos, film footage and original records and witness statements of the event at Roswell on the night of July 4-5, 1947 "This will be the final word on the Roswell incident," said Colonel John Haynes at a Pentagon press conference. "Whether you accept that as the Roswell explanation is up to you, but we do." This is the fourth version the airforce has offered, and by far the most credible. But diehard UFO believers will dive on the fact that the tests of parachute dummies only began in 1953, six years after the Roswell incident, and may find it hard to swallow the air force claim that witnesses got their dates so wrong. "I have no explanation for that," said Colonel Haynes. The release of the report was timed to cool the UFO fever expected next month, when the first UFO festival is expected to attract huge crowds to a six day rock concert, film festival, alien costume contests and non-stop public seminars on alien cover ups and supposed visits. The first official version was a Roswell Army Field Press release on the day of the landing, saying it was in posession of a "flying disk". With in hours, the Forth Worth airbase in Texas insisted what had been found was the debris of a crashed weather ballon. That was the version of events for 47 years, until the airforce admitted in 1994 it had been a cover up story. The ballon was part of a top secret operation called Project Mogul, designed to moniter the upper atmosphere for radiation surges which would signal the soviet Union had finally acquired and tested an atomic bomb. The new airforce explanation sticks with the Project Mogul line, but adds that civilian and military witnesses who had been scoffed at for reporting the recovery of human shaped bodies from the crash area had been correct in fact. "They were very good looking people, ash coloured faces and skin, about 5ft 5in tall. Eyes a little more pronounced, smaller ears, small nose, fine features and hairless," recalled Frank Kaufmann, now aged 81, a civilian member of the 509th Bomb Group staff at the airport base. No bodies were aboard the secret Project Mogul balloon. But the air force claimed yesterday that witnesses who claimed to have seen human-shaped bodies may have confused dates with other dummy tests. [W 5]****** From: Stuart.Reid@britcoun.org Date: Wednesday 25th june 1997 This was in one of yesterdays US news papers.. Thought you might be interested in it for the next issue.. Stuart. Air Force says Roswell 'space aliens' were dummies The Air Force reported Tuesday that "space aliens" who supposedly crashed in the New Mexico desert 50 years ago were only military dummies used in high-altitude parachute drops. A 231-page Air Force report aimed at ending speculation over the Roswell Incident denied the military had recovered bodies from damaged flying saucers in 1947 and had been covering up the discovery ever since. But the private Fund for UFO Research attacked the report, noting that test dummies were not dropped by parachute until 1955. See full story at http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=3607041-28f Roswell witnesses recall UFO crash 50 years later, see http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=3605856-99a [W 6]****** Source: CNN Date: 24th June 1997 Report: Roswell 'aliens' were crash dummies (CNN) A new Air Force document being released on Tuesday reportedly says that so-called space aliens allegedly sighted in the New Mexico desert in the 1940s were actually Air Force dummies used in high-altitude parachute drops. Philip Klass, publisher of a UFO skeptics newsletter, said the Air Force report concludes that people who reported seeing alien bodies at a crash site near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 were actually recalling dummies they saw in the 1950s. Klass said he saw the report. Air Force public affairs officers refused to discuss its contents in advance, although word of the conclusions circulated widely in the network of UFO buffs. Karl Pflock, a UFO researcher who does not believe the Roswell incident involved either a spacecraft or alien bodies, said Monday he had not read the report. However, he questioned the Air Force's theory that those who claimed to have seen the crash debris and the alien bodies could have mixed up the crash, which was in 1947, with dummy parachute tests that took place as much as a decade later. Frank Kaufmann, now 81 and one of the few witnesses to the so-called "Roswell Incident," still insists he saw dead aliens put into body bags after their spacecraft crashed near the town 50 years ago. But the Air Force has repeatedly denied the claims and says it has no evidence of alien spacecraft or that there has been any UFO cover-up. [W 7]****** Source: MSNBC Date: 24th June 1997 Air Force marks Roswell "case closed" (http://www.msnbc.com) But others doubt military references to its research will end debate The Roswell Daily Record chronicled the opening chapter in a 50-year UFO saga with a story on July 8, 1947, about the capture of a "flying saucer." By Alan Boyle MSNBC On the 50th anniversary of the modern UFO era, the U.S. Air Force on Tuesday issued the last chapter of its investigation into what it briefly thought was the first recovery of a flying saucer. "We have finished this, and we're not going to revisit it," Col. John Haynes told reporters. "The Roswell Report: Case Closed" says experiments involving human-size dummies and accidents involving military personnel during the 1950s probably helped inspire long-lived reports that a flying saucer crashed in New Mexico in July 1947. The Air Force also released films of exotic-looking payloads and balloons that could have been mistaken for flying saucers. The new report follows a 1995 Air Force study saying that debris recovered near Roswell, N.M., was connected with Project Mogul, a top-secret operation to use weather balloons and radar equipment to monitor Soviet nuclear blasts. When the wreckage was first found, the Army Air Force briefly reported that a "flying disk" had been retrieved, but the report was withdrawn within hours. Questions about the Roswell incident resurfaced in the 1980s, when UFO researchers seized on eyewitness reports about the purported recovery of alien bodies and wreckage. The Air Force stuck by its Project Mogul explanation for the wreckage near Roswell. But it noted that "lingering questions" remained about the reports of bodies. Based on a review of its records and interviews with witnesses, the Air Force says "activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947." Among the report's conclusions: The alien bodies observed in the New Mexico desert "were probably anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high-altitude balloons for scientific research." The dummies were dropped from the balloons and examined for the effect of the impact. Reports of unusual military activity in the desert match up with the Air Force's procedure for retrieving debris from the dummy tests. Claims that bodies were taken to the Roswell Army Air Field probably refer to a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members were killed, and a 1959 manned-balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured. The new report was written by Air Force Capt. James McAndrew as a follow-up to his 1995 Roswell report. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Tuesday marks the 50th anniversary of the first flying-saucer sighting, reported by Boise, Idaho, businessman Kenneth Arnold as he flew over Washington State, Cascade Mountains. Haynes said the new report was put out with the 50th anniversary of the formation of the Air Force in mind, to call attention to the "interesting and fascinating pieces of research" undertaken by the military at that time. "We are very, very proud of this report," Haynes said. Advance word of the new report has been circulating for more than a week, and some UFO investigators harshly criticized the Air Force's contention that Roswell witnesses confused events that occurred more than a decade apart. "It's an absolute insult to the intelligence of the American people," said Dennis Balthaser, operations manager for the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell. Investigator Karl Pflock, who has concluded that the Roswell saucer tale doesn't hold up, said the Air Force rushed its report into publication to counter the 50th-anniversary hoopla over UFOs. "People who want to believe in Roswell, as well as the people like myself who are convinced that Roswell was something mundane ... will find it laughable," Pflock said. Jerry Clark of the Center for UFO Studies wondered why the Air Force felt the need to come out with an explanation for "alien bodies" at all, particularly since the explanation was "not terribly persuasive." "Because the evidence for alien bodies is intriguing but evidentially thin, I think it's odd that the Air Force felt it had to explain these reports," he said. "It just seems an exercise that undercuts itself. ... When you do this, you're going one step toward explaining that something extraordinary may have happened." During Tuesday's news conference, Haynes stepped around reporters' questions about such articles of UFO lore as Area 51 in Nevada. "There is a facility in Groom Lake, Nevada, quite frankly, I have no knowledge or expertise in the matter. I understand it's classified, and that's all I have to say about it." He also declined to comment on more recent reports of strange lights sighted in the skies over Phoenix. "Contact the local authorities in Arizona," Haynes said, "because the Air Force no longer does any investigation of UFOs." [W 8]****** Source: Michael Linderman CNI news via 'Sightings on the Radio' Press conference July 4th - scrap of metal from off world Paul Davids the executive producer of the show time film Roswell and Derrel Simms and Roger Weir who together have made famous the idea of surgical removal of alien implants are going to hold a press conference on Friday 4th July at 9 o'clock here in Roswell, New Mexico where they are going to announce that they have done scientific tests on a scrap of material said to have come from the Roswell crash and they say they are going to bring scientists out on the stage who will atest that the tests that have been run on this positively demonstrate that this is a manufactured object from off planet. They are going to announce that isotopic ratio tests show that the material in this object is not of normal earth origin material. We are of course waiting for details on this. I have only a sketchy press release here but that is what they say they are going to do and Paul Davids told me weeks ago that this was in the offing. He's enormously excited about it and assures me that the homework has been done on this one. So lets see if they can realy pull it off. That would be a great coo. [W 9]****** >From Sutherland-FraserLisa@petermac.unimelb.edu.au Date: Wednesday 25th June 1997 Ball of Light Sighted - Australia There were reports on the news last night and this morning that a large ball of green/bluish light travelling east to west (?) was seen all across Victoria. It was seen for a period of seemingly 3 hours from 6 pm to 9 pm. UFO Reporting Centre stated it was space junk or a meterorite. It was seen by thousands of people. The night happened to be very overcast and rainy. Cheers Lisa Sutherland-Fraser Letters -------- >From slydemann@earthlink.net Date: Tuesday 24th June 1997 Pretty funny. Top secret crash dummys. I find it interesting that the U.S. Air Force would wait until now to announce this "fact", when it could have shed light on the issue many years ago. This to me is a poorly calculated and highly suspicious move on their part. It's like the child who has been caught red handed by his parents and doesn't have the good sense to admit the truth, continuing to add more and more to his story, making it humourously obvious that there is something to hide here. Just some thoughts from the states. Dave Melton Book Review ----------- From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> BEYOND ROSWELL (a first look) by Steven Kaeser After months of anticipation the first book to try to resolve the inconsistencies between the alleged "Alien Autopsy" film and the now classic "Roswell UFO Crash" is about to hit bookshelves in the U.S. and Europe. However, those hoping to resolve the debate regarding the authenticity of either event will find that this book will do little more than inflame the arguments that are likely to rise as the 50th Anniversary approaches. Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle have become known for their support of the "Alien Autopsy" (AA) film and it might surprise some that the "film" is rarely mentioned in the book until Chapter 13. Indeed, this book is designed to lay out an historical framework that would allow the AA film to coexist with the theories outlined by researchers Kevin Randle, Donald Schmidt, Stanton Friedman and others. It should also be pointed out that those researchers have their own differences regarding what happened a half decade ago near that small southern New Mexico town. In the Foreword, Jesse A. Marcel, M.D., describes events that took place in his parent's small kitchen during the first week of July 1947. He recounts his father's excitement at the discovery of debris from a "flying saucer" and his own realization that we are not alone in the universe. It is apparent that Dr. Marcel's life has been changed as the result of an event that still remains shrouded in mystery, and he calls upon the Government to end the cover-up that he believes is still in place. It is this "cover-up" that could best be described as the central theme of BEYOND ROSWELL, with the AA film becoming only one facet of a complex story of confusion, apprehension, secrecy and fear. Chapter one begins at the dawn of UFOlogy, with the Kenneth Arnold sighting near Mount Rainier, Washington and describes the early efforts of the Army Air Force (AAF) in pursuing their investigation of reported unidentified objects in the sky. It quickly follows through to the infamous statement on July 8th by the military that a "flying disk" had been recovered, only to have that story deflated several hours later by General Roger Ramey who said the so called "disk" had been nothing more than a weather balloon. The story is very familiar to those in the genre, but the events as described serve to lay a foundation for the chapters to follow on the discovery and clean up of the debris field, as well as the alleged military cover up. Perhaps the most surprising factor in the early chapters of the book is the ease with which Hesemann and Mantle have woven the theories created by Friedman and Randle together. Both authors have developed their own scenarios with regard to what happened near Roswell, and their differences have at times resulted in a war or words between them. However, those same theories are used by Hesemann and Mantle to describe the scene around Roswell in July 1947 as they take the reader on a tour of nearly every facet of UFOlogy that relates in some way to the alleged crash of an alien craft in New Mexico. Those facets include the "Majestic Twelve", background information on the "Aviary", the "Blue Room" at Wright-Patterson AFB, "Dreamland" and a number of other lessor known events. If nothing else, BEYOND ROSWELL manages to be the first book to make an effort to tie it all together. Whether it succeeds in that effort will be based on the beliefs of the reader, but it weaves an interesting tale. >From the initial confusion of the military, to the alleged recovery of an alien craft, and eventually to the alleged decision to withhold information until the Government could determine what they were dealing with, there are a great number of disconnected facts and events that appear to support many of the theories being proposed. For the first time, the hand drawn maps of where the crash site is located, as provided by the alleged "cameraman" through Ray Santilli, have been published. However, I was surprised to find that while Hesemann believes he has identified the site and describes it in his book, there is no picture to allow the reader a chance to see the site in question. After contacting Philip Mantle, I learned that the "uncorrected proof" that I had been sent did not include all of the photographs that the final release would contain. I have been to the site, just west of Socorro, NM and I found the area of rock that has been cut away at the base of a cliff to be quite interesting. The fact that the rock has been chiseled away does not prove that an alien craft crashed there, but there is also no record of why the rock had been removed. The question then arises as to whether there were any local witnesses to something unusual during the time of the crash, and it turns out that several local Native American children (who are now much older) remember an unusual incident that occurred in late May of 1947. As recorded in the diary of one of those children: On May 31, 1947 they were outside in the cool of the evening when the sky lit up like daylight and a ball of fire glided silently overhead from northwest to southeast with a brightness that forced them to cover their eyes. Doctors were later called to treat their hands and arms for what was described as burn blisters, but no cause was ever determined. I would note that the cliff face where the crash allegedly occurred is facing the northwest, which would fit their description, and the timing would fit with the "cameraman's" description of the events that later unfolded. Information from Robert Morning Sky is included, along with a chapter on "The Star Elder", which describes a Native American belief in, what would be described in more modern terms as, extraterrestrial visitation. For the Native Americans this apparently has become a part of their religion. It is also interesting to note that there are many Anasazi petroglyphs at Canyonland of Utah that show six-digit footprints. These markings date back to some 1,400 years BC and it appears that the Native American belief in beings from the stars goes back to long before Europeans crossed the Atlantic and changed the culture of Native Americans for all time. BEYOND ROSWELL is easy to read, and full of information that is familiar to those who follow this genre with any regularity. However, it is the first time that I have seen this mix of Roswell related information in one book and those unfamiliar with it will quickly find out what the excitement is all about. I'm sure that a number of researchers, on both sides of the argument, will pick it apart as a result of their own disagreements over the validity of the evidence presented. It is unlikely that non-believers will be swayed by the arguments presented, but it represents a first step in the authors' effort to fit the "Santilli" film into the Roswell event. Published by Marlowe and Company of New York, BEYOND ROSWELL will be released June 1, 1996 with the cloth edition priced at $24.95 (ISBN 1-56924-781-1). Pre-release orders are now being taken by Amazon Books at their WEB site (www.amazon.com), and I would highly recommend this book to anyone who has an interest in the Roswell event. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. If you are using at least one of the following web browers: Netscape 3 ++ MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ Simply visit one of the below url's (world wide web) addresses. When the 'ultrachat' page has loaded you will see a large grey filled box somewhere on the screen. It may then take a few more seconds for the java script to load and run. The grey area will then turn white and you will be asked to enter a nickname. Your own name or a nickname will suffice here. Once you press return you will be presented with various bits of information scrolling up the screen. After a few seconds you will be connected to the uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel. Down the right hand side of the screen you will see a list of the people currently on channel. At the bottom of the screen is where you type your messages. The large upper left section of the screen is were you read and follow the proceedings of the meetings. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.elector.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm http://razorsedge.dyndns.com/~lwelch The uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visit the channel at any time. There is usually someone there to talk to. For those of you needing help connecting with dedicated irc programs such as the excellent MIRC send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufo | adonnelly |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 International UFO Online Conference - July 15th From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:08:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:41:32 -0400 Subject: International UFO Online Conference - July 15th I'm not sure if this will get out to many people but I was asked to put this info on my web site and as the date is *very* close it will help if it is publicised on the list. JULY 15th INTERNATIONAL UFO ONLINE CONFERENCE Venue: UFOnline Chat Room at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1183/chat.html Time: 6.00pm Central Standard Time Subject: Mass Arizona Sighting "Speakers": Confirmed: Several Witnesses to Arizona Sightings Invited: A MUFON Researcher in the Arizona Area E-Mail: ufologik@usa.net ========================= John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Roswell Metal Announcement From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net>(by way of curator <logger@california.com>) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:48:15 -0400 Subject: Roswell Metal Announcement To the UFO Insiders from Dennis: _________________________________________________________________________ At 11:26 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: > To the Insiders List: > Anyone with info re the press conference in Roswell re the > metal analysis please post same to us. > Thank you. > Erik B. Erik: There *was* no press conference in Roswell re the metal analysis, just more delusional Derrel Sims UFO circus and a pissed-off press corps which showed up promptly at 9am, only to be told that the press conference would follow Paul David's regular scheduled presentation. Instead, the scientist who announced the findings of the manufactured, ET nature of an alleged Roswell "fragment" was literally whisked out the back door of the auditorium to a waiting car and then left town the same day. I am not making this up! I was there. David's other so-called "scientists" were self-styled hypnotherapist Derrel (Don't-spell-my-name-wrong) Sims, podiatrist Roger Leir, Jesse Marcel, Jr., and TV producer, Chris Wyatt. The whole thing was a non-event of the first water, the sort of self-inflicted black eye and gaping foot wound at which ufology is so relentlessly, redundantly and unremorsefully adept. For anyone who wants to know, the scientist was Russell VernonClark (yes, that's apparently how he spells it), a chemist from the University of California, San Diego, who seems to be in their environmental and health safety department. I suspect his phone will be disconnected this week. Who confirmed his findings? An unnamed "laboratory at a major west coast university." Who established that the fragment (which resembles a small obsidian rock in appearance) was "manufactured"? An unnamed "Texas laboratory." Who gave the fragment to Sims, and how do we know it came from Roswell? A) Sims isn't saying, and b) we don't. Davids was the only person who met the press that day and he admitted there was no "chain of evidence" (which had been promised in the press release) connecting the rock to Roswell. Davids held a poorly attended press conference the next morning in which he complained of a "hostile press." Imagine that: the media being invited to an announced press conference and having the temerity to actually ask questions! The gall of those guys and gals! The firm that put out the press release was Abrams-Rubaloff & Lawrence. Contact Jonathan Latt at (213) 935-1700. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 DISPATCH #59 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:53:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:57:35 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #59 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #59 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 7/11/97 Quote of the Week "How many of my UFO cookies would it take to trade you for one of those alien cactus plants?'' -- Barter transaction overheard on the floor of the Convention Center last weekend during the Roswell 50th Anniversary UFO Encounter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ParaScope spent last week on the road, bringing you live, up-to-the minute coverage of the Roswell UFO Encounter, so this week we bring you an early and abridged edition of the Dispatch. Our great thanks to everyone we saw in Roswell, including the dozens of you who stopped by to offer your praise and support for ParaScope and the many ParaScope volunteers and members who worked to bring you all the greatest coverage of the Roswell event available from any news organization in any medium. If you haven't yet checked out our Roswell Roundup, do it now. We'll be leaving our extended event coverage on our main screens for another week, so catch the last word on all the action -- it's the next best thing to saying you were there! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories on our home page and at our AOL site now through July 16: Senator Snow? Jesse Helms' Contra Cocaine Connection Sen. Jesse Helms' ties to infamous dictator Augusto Pinochet and death squad commander Roberto D'Aubuisson have been widely known for years. But few people are aware of the Senator's vigorous support of a Nicaraguan rebel group closely linked to narcotrafficking -- support Helms continued long after the drug link was reported by U.S. intelligence and the media. Why did Helms back a guerrilla faction undergirded by drug money? The Senator and his aides declined to comment for this story. But news reports, congressional testimony and declassified federal documents have made it possible to piece together a complicated tale -- one that stretches from the Nicaraguan border to the White House, from Miami to Senator Helms' office in Washington. Get the dirt and download the documents on the Helms/contra/cocaine connection. --------------------------------- Read These Nikes: The Sad Story of an Uber-Brand Gone Wrong Former UN Ambassador Andrew Young's GoodWorks International consulting firm recently finished a review of Nike's Code of Conduct at the shoe giant's behest, and contrary to the documented complaints of labor and human rights advocates, Young concluded that "Nike is doing a good job," but "can and should do better." Young claims that what he saw in his carefully guided three day tour of Nike-owned factories in China, Indonesia and Vietnam was "overwhelmingly good" and his final report suggested only minor changes in Nike policy. What the report does not address is precisely what critics have been most vocal about: The report covered only the Code of Conduct, with no assessment of low wages, enforced overtime, mistreatment of workers, and corporal punishment. As such, the study serves little purpose beyond providing more shallow PR for the Nike brand. ParaScope takes a look at what the report had to say, and more importantly, what Young failed to mention. --------------------------------- Return of the Slipatron II: Fortean Boogaloo Folks, the patented Slipatron 5000 really did through a rod the other week, we swear it! Enigma editor D. Trull apologizes for the mishap, but he happily reports that the Slipatron 5000 is back up and running better than ever before. So be sure to check out this week's all-new collection of paranormal gutbusters, including: "Drac Helicopters Over Transylvania: Strikeforce for the New Romanian Order," a "Prayer for Lost Information" that the religously-inclined can chant over their corrupted hard drives; a "Witches Protection Program" for pracitioners of the black arts; and "The Phosphorescent Rodent," yet another example of overfunded genetic researchers gone UTTERLY MAD!!! --------------------------------- The Month It Rained UFOs Roswell wasn't the only flying saucer-related incident in July 1947. In fact, numerous sightings and incidents were reported following Kenneth Arnold's famous saucer squadron near Mt. Ranier in Washington. Step back in history with us as we check the weather during the month it rained UFOs. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Re: Project 1947 - ABC Nightline: Roswell From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:59:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - ABC Nightline: Roswell >Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:39:59 -0700 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> >Subject: ABC Nightline: Roswell >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Jan Aldrich wrote: >Fran, you are correct. We do indeed need a spokesman for ufology. >These two guys could have salvaged something from a Koppel's "true >believer" commentary and Roswell circus, but NO, these two guys insisted >on playing Russian roulette with every chamber filled. I disagree. Koppel controlled the agenda and set the tone of the program. He was pompous and ignorant of the subject under discussion. And his very first question to Jeffrey and Randle was among the all-time stupidest I've ever heard: "First of all, can we agree, gentlemen, that God would be considered an alien?" (or something like that) I think Jeffrey and Randle just looked at each other across their TV monitors and muttered, "What the hell is he talking about?" As it was, Jeffrey fumbled with it for a while before stating that the existence of alien civilizations was now widely accepted and the real question is whether they are here or not. I think what Koppel was trying to insinuate from the word "Go" was that belief in aliens was no different than belief in God. Neither has an objective foundation. At some point Koppel added that the only valid "evidence" was a piece of a saucer or alien body. Now as we all know, this is a standard debunking statement which doesn't distinguish between "proof" and "evidence," of which there are many types, including eyewitness testimony. Certainly our courts understand the difference, but not Koppel. So Koppel came in with a real attitude problem, and thus wasted a lot of what little time was available for discussion. Now maybe Jeffrey and Randle could have started out saying, "Gee Ted, I came here to discuss the evidence on the Roswell case, not some pointless statement about God and aliens." However, I think I would have been a little nonplussed by Koppel's opening salvo, and I think Jeffrey and Randle were as well. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Alfred's Odd Ode #149 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 09:24:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:02:26 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #149 Apology to MW #149 (For July 5, 1997) I know that you=92re tired of the Air Farces briefing. The one that laid Roswell to rest. The one with the science =96 we=92re taught with reliance. . . The *evidence* put to _harsh_ test! I missed the first broadcast, my Aunt watched a soap. I=92ve found the valid choice was hers. It was the height of absurdity, and I felt all regurgity; Their smoke up my ass past inferred. =20 I listened, but never heard the broadcast After *mind bombed* early on. Try as I might I . . . just couldn=92t fight it; Like slipping on shit, and falling right down. What is this concept "time compression" regarding? What was it really all about? It made me feel like screaming, I felt I was dreaming. . . Shoved to another dimension. . .somehow! What was he _really_ meaning to say, When what he actually said was error!? This "Time compression" is a warped word expression. . . It=92s a darkly incompetent terror! "We know that you know that we know what your thinking." "We=92ve something to hide; that=92s for sure"! "It=92s so damn colossal it will swing wide and jostle" "The meter man =96 short, straight, and pure." And it helps with my son who was standing with me. The one who may think me too UFO spry. The one who won=92t buy it until he can spy it! Well =96 we saw one together =96 we BOTH saw it fly! He said ". . .the damnedest thing I ever saw." It was the *least* of them _I=92d_ seen. A star that detaches =96 flies in wavy dispatches. . . Then dims out of sight like a dream. . . So when the Air Farce can get on the TV . . .Shoveling bovine, plus fecal, and male; I wait with enjoyment, for the truth=92s last appointment, When some are run out on a rail.=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com Which is just the thing that keeps it all from happening, of course.=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pondering "Time Compression." =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 UFO 'Crash' Mato Grosso, Brazil? From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:55:52 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:47:47 -0400 Subject: UFO 'Crash' Mato Grosso, Brazil? Hi, List. The info below is a compilation of reports that suddenly appeared from different sources, about what seems to be a UFO crash occurred just 12 days ago in Mato Grosso State, in Brazil's Mid-West. The reports involve local political authorities, such as a state representative and a municipal Secretary of Industry and Commerce. *** Please forward this info to other lists. *** ============================================== UFO CRASH IN MATO GROSSO, BRAZIL, ON JULY 1st, 1997 *** This is from the paper "Correio Braziliense", which circulates in Brasilia, Brazil's federal capital : [ Wednesday, July 09 th, 1997 ] " ETs - ROSWELL CASE IN THE BRAZILIAN STYLE " " CUIABA', MATO GROSSO - Brazil also has already its Roswell Case (the crash of an alleged alien ship in a ranch in New Mexico, USA, in 1947). Although it happened on the night of last July 1st, the report of the crash of an unidentified flying object (UFO) at Teresopolis, district of the county of Nova Brasilandia, 300 kilometers northeast of Cuiaba', came only yesterday to Cuiaba', State of Mato Grosso capital. And it became news due to the surprise it provoked to a former Mato Grosso's state representative, Isaias Rezende, who is owner of a ranch close to Mr. Divino Fogoio's ranch, where the object would has crashed. The former representative has been in the region and became astonished with the suspense atmosphere that gained the locals. On Monday [July 7th, 1997], two journalism teams from Cuiaba', together with the Fire Dept., unsuccessfully tried to enter the Divino Fogoio's ranch. But the farmer told them he could allow the access only to personnel authorized by Brazil's federal government. Mr. Fogoio, however, confirms the reports from people who saw an incandescent object caving in over the region, causing a "tremendous bang", that not only has shaken his house but also was heard for a distance of over 100 km [62 miles]. " *** And this is from the paper "Jornal do Brasil", which circulates in the city of Rio de Janeiro : [ Reported by Jose' Calixto de Alencar, from "Agencia JB" ] [ Wednesday, July 09 th, 1997 ] " (...) Many people said that they witnessed an incandescent object caving in over the region, producing a "great bang". (...) A farmer [Mr. Fogoio] said he observed the object for 6 minutes, before it crashed. A cowboy, Gilberto Braga, who lives in Nova Brasilandia, was the only one who had the courage to touch the object. "It seems an iron ball, bigger than a tractor, and released an odd smell", said the cowboy. Residents of the region are concerned about possible contamination of cattle or of the population living at the riverside, near the UFO crash site on the banks of Manso River. "It was a disc-shaped object, with an intense light", said Mr. Claudio Picci, Nova Brasilandia's municipal Secretary of Industry and Commerce. " *** And back again to the report from the paper "Correio Braziliense" : " A team of AMPUP - State of Mato Grosso Association for UFO and Parapsychological Research - decided to visit the place. According to local ufologist, Mrs. Marcy Neto, her group has been recording the appearance of UFOs in the Chapada dos Guimaraes [Guimaraes Plateau] region since 1978 " *** And finally, the letter below is from Victor Lourenco's (lourenco@interlog.com) mailing list in Portuguese, at Internet. The original source is Brazilian ufologist Pedro Cunha (pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br), from Brasilia, who received the following letter from Mrs. Marcy Monteiro Neto, AMPUP's Vice-President. " Cuiaba', July 9th, 1997. Dear friend : Firstly I have to apologize for the delay in replying your e-mail. Well, as we'd announced previously, an object crashed in the county of Nova Brasilandia, MT [state of Mato Grosso]. At dawn yesterday we left Cuiaba in order to try to locate the object. I'll sum up quickly what we've investigated. We arrived at the city of Nova Brasilandia around 8,00 AM [July 8th, 1997]. We interviewed several people, who told us the facts in the same way. According to witnesses, on the night of July 1st, 1997, an object flew over the city, lighting up the sky. Soon after the sighting, a noise was heard, like of an explosion, and the object crashed. We spent about 5 hours searching the farm where the alleged object would be. The info we have been given was mistaken. Everybody knew of the happenings, but didn't know the crash site. After we've almost lost ourselves on dirt roads that looked like a maze, we decided to return, because some of our group were feeling very bad due to the trip and we'd an appointment at our city. Arriving back in Cuiaba, the local papers were already publishing the fact as authentic. A television crew arrived at the ranch but was not allowed onto the property. The owner of the ranch denied he had seen the object, but the ranch's overseer stated he saw the object, touched it and said he didn't stand too close to it for long due to the smell from the artifact. He also said the object is black. Whether it's metal or concrete is not known, and it is the size of a truck. We have been invited by many local papers to provide information about the events. The story was front page in Cuiaba's major papers. Minutes ago, the president of AMPUP, Ataide Ferreira S. Neto, phoned me from Gazeta TV Network. He informed me that the object was found and that the press was already going to the place. The Gazeta Network, which has covered the case since the beginning is negotiating for a chopper to get to the place. There are rumours that a plane chartered by Globo TV Network, the major TV network in Brazil, is also flying over the site in an attempt to find some vestiges of a UFO crash. Well, up to the moment this is the information I can provide you. In the next hours I shall have more news. Marcy O. Monteiro Neto. Vice-President, AMPUP. " ================================================ For further updates, please contact A.J. Gevaerd (gevaerd@alanet.com.br) Editor of Brazilian UFO Magazine), who lives in the South Mato Grosso State's capital, Campo Grande, or Pedro Cunha (pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br), who lives in Brasilia, both cities being in the Brazilian Mid-West. According to A.J. Gevaerd, who is also MUFON's representative in Brazil, the military guys are already there. Vitorio Pacaccini (pacman@cyberdock.com.br), the Varginha Case investigator, is also gathering some info. And an alternative source of information is the brazilian journalist Eduardo Castor (ecastor@agestado.com.br) who works in Sao Paulo for "Agencia Estado" (brazilian alike to UPI, AP, Reuters, France Press, etc.). He has a correspondent in Cuiaba who is confirming everything and who is providing him with up-to-date information on the incident. Mr. Castor defined the happenings as "very, very strange". Best Regards, *----------------------------------------------* | | | Paulo H. Andrade - pha0801@ibm.net | | http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4025/ | | "Varginha Case - The Whole Story" webmaster | | | *----------------------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Alfred's Odd Ode #150 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 21:11:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:49:40 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #150 Apology to MW #150 (For July 8, 1997) If you told it, it happened, it must be the truth. There was no way you=92d risk it, you were so far aloof. My parents, my teachers, my culture, and government You got my attention, secured my involvement. You laid it on down with the straightest of faces! You believed it yourself, it was that may disgrace us. With primitive sound, and occasional pictures, You employed your devices in limitless strictures. I bought into it, fine, but you played with my mind, And I believed in whatever you said, you will find! I=92m just a good citizen, and I=92m paying my taxes To the best of ability =96 ain=92t taking no chances. But, to tell you the truth, you're now scaring me silly. Your minds are all closed, and your countenance chilly. You don=92t look around at the damage you cause, Who pays while you play, never passes your jaws. Hypnotized by the mainstream, I mistrusted the sky! Thank God for my Dad =96 "UFO=92s are alive"! Though hard ass, conservative, on Newt=92s party line, Even _he_ will admit =96 It=92s not _all_ that=92s been rhymed. Mistrust of the sky was encouraged by those Who are fired from Airlines just for telling what shows! Odd things in the sky must have rational meaning. . . It then HAS explanation . . . you pretend you are dreaming! ~The bunkies are right, and the earth needs no healing! ~There is openness there where you see double dealing! ~You can safely buy in to what=92s heard on the news! ~You believe what the Catholics are saying about Jews. ~Blacks are all uppity, beyond their capacity, ~And women are flighty, unsmart in sagacity! ~Chicanos are lazy, and Arabs are crazy. . . ~The white folks endure the indignantly lazy! ~Rednecks all carry a gene for green teeth! ~Asians are plotting to take over our streets! ~The internet=92s trustful with honor=92s replete! ~The fault cannot lie at MY lily white feet! =20 I=92ve blasted on out with the old alien view. Where "it just don=92t add up", where what=92s hidden is true. College is helpful, even filled with old commies Who know about books hard to share with your mommy. The sight of someone flinching is a tattle tale to me. That's that is where a mote must look =96 to SEE, and then be free! To unravel all your ignorance like a tangled clutch of yarn, And weave a robe experienced, which'll keep you safe from harm. Lehmberg@snowhill.com I would have been so much further along with an early admission of warts and chancres, but all I got was boring stories of unreachable and unimpeachable standard -- where America could do no wrong. These stories were woven of prevarication into dissembling garments that never really fit, and only give the illusion of real clothing. We=92re naked, all of us, only thinking we wear rugged clothes. We hang from a thread, three meals from savagery.=20 I=92m going to go to the tap right now, draw off a convenient glass of water, and make a point of savoring every drop.=20 And he did, too. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for trusting the sky. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 28 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:56:44 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 28 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 28 July 13, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor DEPUTY SEES DAYLIGHT UFO IN SOUTHERN COLORADO On June 26, 1997, at 10:23 a.m., Colorado undersheriff Brian Norton was driving on Highway 160 between Alamosa (population 6,830) and Monte Vista (population 3,902) when he spotted a "bright silver reflection" in the eastern sky, near the Great Sand Dunes National Monument. Norton described the UFO as a silver cylinder "just like that craft that was filmed over Salida (in September 1995-J.T.) by Tim Edwards." As soon as he saw the silvery gleam, "I reached for my field glasses, and, when I looked up, it was gone." "It either just flat disappeared," Norton said, "Or it took off real fast." Norton's sighting took place the same day as the UFO sightings north of Las Vegas, Nevada and at the Indian ruins at Mesa Verde in southern Colorado. According to UFO investigator Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY (St. Martin's Press, 1996), Colorado police received "several calls" concerning anomalous lights hovering over Greenie Mountain, 12 miles (20 kilometers) south of Monte Vista during the last week of June. Mysterious lights were also seen just south of the area in Summitville, Colorado and Dulce, New Mexico. Summitville was the site of a cattle mutilation during the autumn of 1996, O'Brien reported. A dead cow, missing its udder, rectum and both eyes, was found "in the center of a 30-foot-wide (10 meter) circle of knocked-down grass." The animal was covered with a fine residue "like baby powder." (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for this news story.) MORE UFO SIGHTINGS IN CALIFORNIA California saw two UFO sightings last week, one north of Los Angeles, the other in the Sierra Nevada mountain range just east of the Nevada state line. On Friday, July 4, 1997, at 10 p.m., several residents of Chino, California spotted "a crescent- shaped UFO" hovering over the desert community. According to ufologist Jerry Glass, "the UFO maintained a stationary position for ten minutes, then headed east. When viewed through binoculars, the witnesses stated the UFO was made up of five balls of light with golden tails." Chino (population 40,165) is in Riverside County just south of Highway 60, about 28 miles (45 kilometers) east of Los Angeles. This case is being investigated by MUFON Inland Empire. (Many thanks to Jerry Glass for this report.) On Tuesday, June 24, 1997, a woman driving on Highway 70, heading west from Reno, Nevada, spotted a strange object parked in a pasture near Vinton, California (population 150). The witness described the object as "a big round thing that was a soft light pomegranate color...kinda peachy-red. It was too far away to judge actual size," but she thought it was "the size of a barn." Vinton is located on Highway 70 in Plumas County, 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of the Nevada state line. (Many thanks to Skywatch International for this report.) UFO SEEN FLYING OVER MONMOUTH, OREGON On Monday evening, July 7, the McDonnall family was in the backyard of their home in Monmouth, Oregon (population 5,594) when they spotted a gray UFO passing overhead. "My son and his visiting cousin were taking turns jumping on the backyard trampoline," Jim McDonnall reported, "when both he and his cousin noticed an object traveling in the sky from north to south, at a position nearly directly overhead." "Both described the object as about an inch in length when measured from the index finger and thumb at arm's length. The object was traveling near the normal flight path that planes travel when going to and from Portland, Oregon and the San Francisco Bay area." The UFO "made no noise," McDonnall reported, "Nor did it create a vapor trail, as did the jets during the same evening. Yet it was about as high as the jets travel when taking off from Portland; between 15 and 20 thousand feet (4,545 to 6,060 meters--J.T.) We estimated the altitude of the object by the fact that it was traveling through thin, high altocumulus clouds that are normally seen at about that altitude." "The object, as described by my 14-year-old son and his 13-year-old cousin, was metallic gray in color, shaped like a medicine capsule, and had a dark line that appeared as a band around the midsection of the object. The object, according to the two, had no wings and was traveling quite fast--about twice as fast as jets travel through the same portion of sky. They tried to call me outside to view the object as well, but it vanished from view before I could reach their vantage point." Monmouth is on Oregon Highway 99W, about 61 miles (97 kilometers) south of Portland. (Email Interview) MYSTERIOUS TREMORS FELT IN SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA A mysterious subterranean rumbling, similar to the "Taos Hum," occurred last week in Sunnyvale, California. The city (population 106,618) is located at the southern end of San Francisco Bay, about 9 miles (14 kilometers) northwest of San Jose. On Monday night, July 7, 1997, at 11:34 p.m., Arnold Veness, 35, a database developer and consultant, was jolted out of a sound sleep "by a very deep, very low, earth rumbling sound. The vibration was not a train, not a sonic boom." This was the second time in two months that Veness was awakened by the rumbling. He said he "goes to bed usually at 10 p.m. so I can get up to go to work at 4:30 a.m." "The vibrations were more heard than actually felt--a long deep rumbling sound," he said, that had a duration of five to ten seconds, the same as the previous incident. The first time he heard the "rumbling sound," he added, "I was strongly motivated to get up and look out the window." He was able to fix the exact moment of the second incident because "an electronic clock is located beside the bed." Veness checked the U.S. Geological Survey's website the morning of July 8, but no tremors had been detected in the Sunnyvale area. (Email Interview) RED-ORANGE UFOs SEEN IN BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA On Tuesday, July 8, 1997, at 11:10 p.m., UFO researcher Lynn Taylor and his wife "were outside with a friend when I observed an orange-red object moving at a moderate speed northward, above the trees east of my house. This was a very brief sighting and the first in five weeks." The following afternoon, Wednesday, July 9, 1997, at 2:15 p.m., Taylor received a phone call from his fellow ufologist and colleague, John Tosti. "I told him about last night's sighting, and he indicated that one of the large red ones had shown up near his house recently." Tosti also reportedly mentioned receiving several harassment "hang-up" phone calls during the first half of June, following his close-up view of a hovering saucer in the woods near Bloomington back in May. (Many thanks for Lynn Taylor and Skywatch International for this report.) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN IN OHIO AND CONNECTICUT On Sunday night, July 6, 1997, at 9 p.m., Mrs. Julie P. "was traveling northbound on Interstate (Highway) 71, and from a vantage point overlooking Kenwood Mall (near Cincinnati, Ohio-J.T.), I was able to view a helicopter that was hovering above a neighborhood that may have been near Blue Ash." Blue Ash, Ohio (population 5,506) is a suburb of Cincinnati located 14 miles (22 kilometers) northeast of City Hall. "This was 45 minutes beforehand, and probably too far away to be seen from Delhi (population 8,000) but neverthless the helicopter could have traveled in that direction and presumably hovered above that neighborhood somewhere. It was dusk (8:45 p.m.) and I couldn't make out what color or any physical details." "Again on Monday afternoon, July 7, about 5:45 p.m., I was traveling north-bound on (Interstate) I-75 and also noticed another hovering helicopter," Julie reported. "Not sure if the same. It was steadfast above some neighborhood in Reading (population 12,879). I was able to see this helicopter better, and it was a flat-black color with a larger-than-average tail-fin. It had two strobing white lights." (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for this report.) On Saturday, July 12, 1997, at 9:30 a.m., a man weeding his garden in the Summit section of Coventry, Rhode Island (population 31,000) heard the sound of a helicopter engine. Looking west, he spied a black helicopter flying north at a low altitude. "It looked as if it crossed Route 117 near the Connecticut state line," he reported. The same day, at 1:30 p.m., James W. and several other people parked at a Route 14 roadside rest stop in the Oweco section of Sterling, Connecticut were startled when a black helicopter suddenly flew over a neighboring pasture at treetop level. "It was a black Huey," reported Jim, a Vietnam veteran. "Skids, turbo engine, one strobing red light on top of the engine. Just the one chopper. It came from the east, flew past us over the pasture, and then made a 90-degree southward, heading for Voluntown. When it reached the southern horizon, it hung another 90-degree turn (east) and took off in that direction." Seven minutes later, the black UH-1 helicopter returned and performed the exact same maneuver, as the onlookers watched. (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: Oweco is eight miles (12 kilometers) west of Summit, R.I.) DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED NEAR WIMBLEDON, SURREY On Saturday, July 5, 1997, Alex Maddern and his wife glanced out the kitchen window of their fourth-floor apartment in Tibbets Corner, near Wimbledon, Surrey and spotted a daylight disc in the bright, cloudless sky. The sighting occurred at around 12:15 p.m. Maddern called it "a very strange object moving across the sky." According to Gordon Millington, chairman of the Surrey Investigation Group on Aerial Phenomena (SIGAP), "It was travelling so fast that they only had it in view for about half a minute, until it disappeared in the direction of Kingston, Surrey. The Madderns, living as they do in the flight path of London's Heathrow airport, are very familiar with ordinary air traffic but claim that this distinctive object was outside the usual flight path and at a much lower altitude." "They described the UFO as 'a metallic disk' with 'a highly reflective surface' like aluminum, and 'clam- shaped,' which would suggest that the disk had a raised conical central section." "Enquiries by a SIGAP member who is also an Air Traffic Controller at Heathrow indicated that no air traffic was logged in the area at that time, and a UFO outside the normal flight paths would not have registered on the ATC equipment. It was possible that it might have been recorded on the radar tapes, but these would not be accessible." (Many thanks to Gordon Millington of SIGAP for this report.) RING-SHAPED UFO HORNS IN ON ANOTHER CHILEAN AIR SHOW On Saturday, June 21, 1997, the crack aerobatic team "Los Halcones" (The Falcons) of the Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (Chilean Air Force) performed in an air show at Poso el Monte, near Iquique, a city in northern Chile. Midway through the air show, viewers on the ground spotted "a ring-shaped UFO" in the clear blue sky above the Pacific Ocean. The UFO came closer as the Halcones pilots flew in formation. According to Rodrigo Fuenzalida, president of Agrupacion Investigaciones Ovniologicas (AION), the well-known Chilean UFO research group, the ring-shaped UFO was captured on video by one of the onlookers. "According to the witnesses, it looks like the same type of UFO seen in Pucon (at a similar airshow in February 1997) this summer, and it appeared when the exhibition started and left when it ended, heading north (towards Peru--J.T.)," Chilean ufologist Luis Sanchez Perry reported. In related business, a high-ranking FACH officer told Dr. Mario Dusseul, AION vice president, that FACH pilots are under "strict orders not to report any type of sightings" and "if any (FACH) military plane observes UFO activity, they have to return to their base immediately." (Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para esas noticias.) SEARCHERS FAIL TO FIND ANY TRACE OF MISSING LEAR JET Over 40 volunteers scoured the woods around West Topsham, Vermont (population 150) on two consecutive weekends but failed to find any trace of the Lear jet that vanished over the upper Connecticut River valley on December 24, 1996. Volunteers showed up the morning of Saturday, June 28, 1997 at the West Topsham general store and community hall. "The initial search was conducted by foot, but there were plans to call in a helicopter and private planes." The search effort was "led by the families of the missing pilot and his passenger." Pilots Johann Schwartz, 31, and Patrick Hayes, 30, missed a final approach into the municipal airport in Lebanon, New Hampshire (population 11,134) at 10 a.m. on December 24, 1996. They were told to "go around" once more by the Lebanon tower, and, as they made the circle, their Lear jet suddenly vanished from the radar screen. A thorough air-and- ground search of the region last January failed to find either the pilots or their aircraft. "West Topsham became a focus of interest after reports that at least nine people in the area said they saw or heard the plane the morning it presumably went down." The volunteers wrapped up their first search on Sunday, June 29, 1997. They gathered again in West Topsham on Friday, July 4, 1997 and continued the search until Sunday evening, July 6, 1997. As of today, Sunday, July 13, 1997, Schwartz, Hayes and the Lear jet remain missing. (See the Providence, R.I. Journal-Bulletin for June 30, 1997.) FALL OF "ANGEL HAIR" REPORTED IN OKLAHOMA On March 27, 1997, Mark L. was walking his German shepherd dog in Billings, Oklahoma (population 632) at 6:45 p.m. "I saw a diamond-shaped object that hovered over my neighbor's house for several minutes," Mark reported. "I couldn't do anything but stare. I was stunned. The object was about the size of a standard suburban home." "I noticed that my dog, a German shepherd, was whimpering and then frantically trying to get away. And then my dog collapsed to the ground. Then the UFO shot into the sky at an astonishing speed, leaving behind a trail of odd strands of material. I tried to touch some, but when I did, it evaporated." "I brought my dog to a vet, and, as it turned out, my dog had (had) an epileptic siezure (which she'd never had before). Ever since that incident, I've tried to find out more about UFOs and extraterrestrials." Billings in on Highway 15, about 85 miles (136 kilometers) north of Oklahoma City. (Email Interview) (Editor's Comment: Billings is also 20 miles east of Enid, Okla., a city notorious for its Fortean and paranormal events.) ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: In a recent story on Mamlambo, the South African river monster, your editor said the beast might be Elasmosaurus, a member of the pleisosaur family, which became extinct "50 million years ago." Well, ROUNDUP reader William Pierce called me on that one. Elasmosaurus, he rightly pointed out, existed in the late Jurassic/early Cretaceous Period and actually died out 100 million years ago. Good job, William! As for me, I'm off to summer school for a refresher course in paleontology. from the UFO Files: 1947: AIRLINER CREW SEES FIVE FLYING SAUCERS Concluding our celebration of the Great UFO Flap of 1947, here's another actual news story from the period, featuring a first-person account by Captain E.J. Smith of United Airlines Flight 105, whose plane encountered five flying discs over Emmett, Idaho on July 4, 1947. Enjoy! Seattle, July 5--(INS)--I didn't believe the stories about flying disks myself when I first heard about them. Now I don't know what to believe. We were on our regular run from Salt Lake City to Seattle, just eight minutes out of Boise, when my co-pilot, First Officer Ralph Stevens, who was flying at the time, blinked our landing lights. I asked him what he was doing, and he replied, "There's a plane approaching off our bow." But a few seconds later we both decided the object was not a plane, it was a flying disk. We saw only one of them at first, but soon four more appeared to the left of our plane, in a northwesterly direction. We couldn't tell what their exact shape was except to notice that they were definitely larger than our plane (a Douglas DC-3--J.T.), fairly flat, smooth on the bottom and rough on top. Just to check, I called our stewardess, (Martine) Marty Morrow to the cockpit, and simply asked her: "Do you see anything in the sky around us?" Immediately she pointed at the disks and said, "Yes, what are those?" That's what we wanted to know, so I contacted our ground radio station at nearby Ontario, Ore. (Oregon) and gave them our estimated direction and altitude, and asked if they could see them. They couldn't. Shortly thereafter, the disks disappeared for a few minutes, then reappeared again. This time they were in our view for 15 minutes. None of our eight passengers saw the disks because they were off our bow, and we didn't think to turn the plane, so intense was our interest. It was impossible to estimate their speed or if they were moving at all. All I know is that when they did disappear, they vanished suddenly. In all the time Ralph and I were flying during the war (World War II--J.T.), and in my 14 years with United Airlines, I've never seen anything like it. Up until last night, we all had discounted 90 percent of the reports we'd read in the papers or heard over the radio, but now-- Frankly, I'm baffled. FUN UFO WEBSITES: Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, which has plenty of articles and features for the UFO enthusiast. You can access the site at this URL: http//www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be found at our site. Read or download at your leisure. We're at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ That's it for this week. Today might be a good day to avoid the bathtub, readers. Because it was on July 13, 1793 that Dr. Jean-Paul Marat, the French revolutionist, was stabbed to death in his tin tub by Marie-Anne Charlotte Corday d'Arlmont, better known as Charlotte Corday. For ten bonus points, here's a question--What were the last words heard by Dr. Marat? Answer: "Is that a baby porpoise, or are you just happy to see me?"*** (***Just kidding, readers. Thanks, and a tip of the saucer to stage and film actress Mae West.) Drop by next Sunday for more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 UFO/Pyramids/Bible Info Requested From: "Anthony Chippendale" <chipp@mail.clara.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:08:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:37:05 -0400 Subject: UFO/Pyramids/Bible Info Requested I am currectly writing a new book about the history of UFOs. I require information on the relation between UFOs the pyramids, the bible and certain cave paintings. If anyone has any files/pictures/info then please email it to me at: ufos@chipp.clara.net All help will be acknowledged in my book. Thanks. Anthony Chippendale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 British Special Air Service in 'Alien' Riddle From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:49:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:00:22 -0400 Subject: British Special Air Service in 'Alien' Riddle The People (British newspaper), July 13, 1997 p. 29: SAS In Alien Riddle Troops saw "four little grey men" walk into ambush - then vanish By Joe Brady SAS soldiers waiting to ambush IRA gunmen were stunned when aliens walked in front of their gun-sights, it was claimed yesterday. The undercover troops - hiding near an arms cache on a hillside in South Armagh - say they saw up to four small grey figures. The "aliens" and soldiers stared at each other for a minute. Then the "spacemen" disappeared - and seconds later the eight SAS troops saw a flash in the sky. They were so disturbed by what they had seen that they took the rare decision to abandon the stake-out. Their commander was furious - and their comrades in the elite Special Air Service Regiment laughed or accused them of being high on drugs. But the eight stuck to their story and it was accepted. Now, four years later, it has been revealed to a Ulster UFO study group by a former Army intelligence officer. Belfast-based expert Hugh O'Brien said: "We are trying to interview the soldiers even though some may be too embarrassed to come forward. "We have learned that on that morning they were convinced they saw three, perhaps four, small grey figures in human form. "At no stage did the soldiers feel threatened. They simply could not believe what they were seeing. "The alien forms made no move towards them but judging from what the soldiers told their regimental priest and commanding officer, the aliens knew the soldiers were there. It was like a stand-off. Within a few minutes, probably much less, the aliens disappeared. "All the men can recall is that in a very quick space of time they saw a brief flash of light in the sky." Mr O'Brien added: "These men were fit, highly-trained observers and to put it down to some flight of imagination would be absurd." The weapons cache was recovered by other soldiers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 13 Alfred's Odd Ode # 51 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:17:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:32:59 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 51 Apology to MW #151 (For July 10, 1997) I can change to near anything its innocent equivalent. And do it assisted with only a *one*. Multiplying=92s easy when one is the factor. And your mile is required in meters for fun. Miles to centimeters, from a gallon to a liter, And teaspoons are transformed to metric tons. You wade and sift the ocean of all accepted notion, And always are you running, as you=92re under their big gun. Even labels transform neatly when they=92re placed not so discreetly Opposing their companions in the fractions other part. The reduction is sublime; they meet and mix, combine in time. Resulting in a marriage of the mind, and hands, and heart. Liters per parsec become teaspoons per inch And a thorny proportion problem goes away. The math is just too simple for where you put your feet And ease of operation can complete, and save the day. Apples et per mile have a gentle easy style. And peaches halved for fathoms are endearing. But you know what can=92t be beat (be it Willie=92s winsome meat) That your measure is toot sweet, and so alluring.=20 I mean, who gives a damn they fear, though they profit right from here, That the richest are the richer for your suffering. And you have to take some pause, when they structure all their laws. . . . . .Those with billions lose a million, and start blubbering? The strange lights in the sky are too patient . . . at their station! They are showing a restraint we=92ve _never_ known! From the start of our colonialism, we=92ve steered for hard baronialism; We are tortured by our devils as we squirm on unjust thrones! If they were us they=92d be more callous, they=92d use a rapists phallus! They would hardly spare our living, much less feelings. They would take us for their prey, as they bowed their head to pray=20 They would rape us nice and pretty, and they=92d never call it stealing! The watchword is PROVENANCE, it softens your countenance. Where do things come from, and why are they here? What is the history of all of your misery? Why shed your tears on the point of a spear? Show me the beginnings, and I=92ll show we have more innings. Ms. Fat ain=92t sung her last, and Elvis=92s IN the building! The beginnings are in Provenance, and _proof_ for all their genesis, Though some insist on toiling busily=96 inflicting, branding, gelding. And the parsecs become light years, then the light year red shifts -- *here*. At sublight speeds we coast to rest, next to Earth we orbit round. Like a raft upon vast waters, she is the only thing that matters! Yet we beat her like a hapless spouse, though she=92s yet to make a sound. Lehmberg@snowhill.com If you don=92t count AIDS, Ebola, Ozone holes, and a plethora of frightening environmental ailments. I think she=92s screaming like someone truly wronged.=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for not being an arrogant insufferable knob. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Assassination Executive Order From: armen victorian <Zius@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:17:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:48:58 -0400 Subject: Assassination Executive Order A while ago in the course of one of my mailings, I mentioned the current on-going study into the possibilities of highly classified Executive Orders. This, I stated based on my findings then with regards to the involvement of an individual in some of the United States' most covert, and classified operations. Consequently, as follow up, we received a number of documents from the individual concerned, which in close examination of existing documents in my own archives signed by the same President, on the following count tend to be authentic. Although, more follow up forensic examinations are required to prove their actual authenticity. Due to the nature and the gravity of their contents, I produce a copy of one of them. That, if proven authentic would have far reaching political ramifications; The letter is a written on a White House stationery, with White House type face. It is not dated for legal reasons of its contents, based on the NSC regualtions, directives and instructions governing Presidential Findings. Equally, since the letter is signed by the President himself, is considered to be an Executive Order - mainly due to orders actually issued in the letter to the recepient. THE WHITE HOUSE Washington D.G. Chip Tatum Codename: Pegasus You are hereby ordered into service of the United States Government. It has been determined that [excised], has illegally obtained documents which are of vital concern to the security of the United States and selected allies of the United States. It has therefore been determined by Findings of the National Security Council, that these documents must be recovered. Due to this determination, you are authorized to use whatever means necessary to recover said documents and ensure that this criminal is brought to justice. You are authorized to exceed existing regulations and FTM's to accomplish this mission. If loss of life occurs as a result of the performance of your duties, you shall be exempt and protected from prosecution. Signed: George Bush In close examination of the document, with other documetns signed by Bush, in my archives, the following similarities, at this stage are clear; 1. The type face is identical. 2. Bush often had large signatures. 3. He often used not fountain pen, but pens like marker pens to sign his letters. 4. The gaps between paragraphs were always kept to minimum. 5. There were no margins at the beginning of each new paragraph. 6. His official letters were, almost always short. 7. The type of vocabulary [words] used is similar, so is the grammer. As stated before, further detailed examinations are required to determine further the authenticity of these documents which are sixteen in numbers, and all bear official Presidentail seal of office. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:13:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > Subject: Robert Dean > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Greeting List Members, > To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider that he is > telling us about a Top Secret document that he took an oath to safeguard. > It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a little > oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is flushing the > Constitution of the United States down the toilet. He has done the same > to his oath to protect and defend the Constitution if what he says is > true. > So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a > liar. In either case not a very creditable person. This opinion brings out the dichotomy in views on whether truth should be withheld from the masses for their better good, supposedly, or whether it should be allowed to come out. Of course there's much to be said on both sides, but I think the present course is best -- to have both go on at the same time. That is, it does no good to withhold the truth completely, if you know that eventually it must come out, at which time the full shock of it all would hit a totally unprepared populace and generate the very panic and chaos that the withholders wish to avoid. So, thanks to those few who have the courage to violate their security oaths and/or face up to resulting ridicule and debunkery for having told of their UFO sightings and/or experiences, a substantial fraction of the populace *is* informed of the alien presence -- those whose belief systems can accept the possibility and who have some curiosity about it all. But if the full truth had come out all at once in 1947 or even 1987, I think the shock and panic would have been enormous. Hopefully it would be much less by now, especially within the younger generations. If Bob Dean has broken an oath in telling of what he learned while at SHAPE in NATO, it does not at all mean he is not credible. What he has told us is credible in light of the known UFO phenomenon coming from many other sources. If no one from the NATO offices had broken their oath and come forward to tell the truth, this itself would be used as evidence of sorts against UFOs by debunkers who use the argument of silence. Each person in such a position as Bob Dean's has to decide for himself whether the truths being withheld are more important for interested segments of the public to know than is the maintenance of an oath taken at a time when it could not be imagined what the future would bring. I feel that ufology should favor the baring (not barring) of the truth, since there are plenty of others around who are busy tending to the preservation of the status quo. I myself find Bob Dean credible since I know him. He is no Lee Shargel. But this does not mean I agree with him on all aspects of the UFO phenomenon. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Roswell UFO Was Man-made? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:33:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:17:41 -0400 Subject: Roswell UFO Was Man-made? City man ties man-made saucer to Roswell crash // Says he saw craft in hangar year before incident=20 Lancaster New Era Lancaster, PA=20 Sat, Jul 12 1997=20 So, an Unidentified Flying Object crashed in Roswell, N.M., 50 years ago.=20 Not so fast, says Lancaster resident Thomas C. Smith, who offers a guess about the identity of the mysterious aircraft.=20 While working for a military-plane manufacturer the year before the famous Roswell incident, Smith says, he saw a flying saucer. Not a visitor from another planet, Smith's saucer was a human-engineered, experimental aircraft nestled in a Connecticut hangar.=20 "My God, what is that?" the 20-year-old Smith wondered. "It was standing there on these stilts."=20 It reminded Smith of something out of Orson Welles' 1938 radio broadcast "The War of the Worlds," about a Martian invasion of Earth.=20 Armed with U.S. government security clearance, Smith watched, he says, as the 40-foot-wide elliptical craft hovered 10 feet off the ground and flew away, driven by twin propellers. A pilot lying in a cramped cockpit guided the craft.=20 Smith, now a retired 72-year-old executive, recalled the experience during the UFO frenzy created by the 50th anniversary of the Roswell episode this month.=20 Does he have proof that a craft like the one he saw crashed in Roswell during a test flight? No, but he says he believes that theory is more probable than visitors from outer space.=20 For the uninitiated, Roswell is the site - some people believe - where an alien flying saucer crashed in early July 1947. UFO believers claim the U.S. military recovered pieces of the craft and dead aliens and have kept it secret ever since.=20 Over the years, the government has tried to quiet such rumors by offering explanations: The crash debris was the remains of a downed weather balloon or classified, high-altitude equipment designed to detect Soviet nuclear-weapons tests. The "alien corpses" were test dummies dropped from high altitudes in an experiment.=20 While the two sides argue over such points, Smith simply points out that he saw a craft that easily could have been mistaken for a UFO in 1946.=20 At the time, Smith was a mechanical-engineering graduate just out of Penn State University. He was working for Chance-Vought Aircraft in Stratford, Conn., which was building planes for the U.S. Navy.Smith was testing the high-altitude bonding of a composite material: wood sandwiched between two layers of metal.=20 He says he was curious about what would be built with the material, and since he had security clearance, a supervisor led him into a guarded hangar. He was shown a new jet the company was developing, but his attention was attracted to the other craft in the hangar, a flying saucer made of the material he had been testing.=20 "It was very streamlined," Smith recalls. The khaki-colored saucer was a few inches thick at the edges to about two feet thick at the pilot's cockpit, which had a bubble window allowing the pilot to look forward and down at the ground.=20 "I saw him get in, and he lay down flat," Smith says.=20 The craft had two propellers and rudders in the back. Smith went back at night to watch test flights. The saucer, he says, would float straight up, then fly off.=20 "They'd get it off the ground and it would disappear" into the darkness, he says. He says there were reports in the area of unidentified flying objects.=20 After working for the company for about a year, Smith moved to Lancaster to marry his college sweetheart, Marilyn Globisch.=20 About the time he left Chance-Vought in 1947, it moved operations to Texas, where it would have better conditions for test flights, Smith says. Thus, Chance-Vought moved to a state next to New Mexico the year of the Roswell crash.=20 Since Chance-Vought built planes for the Navy, wreckage of one of its experimental units could look foreign to the Air Force, Smith says. That would explain the Air Force's initial confusion and contradictory statements after the 1947 incident, he says.=20 In Lancaster, Smith worked for Hamilton Watch Co. and Woodstream Corp., where he retired as vice president of marketing. He and Marilyn live at 1420 Quarry Lane and have two children and three grandchildren.=20 Smith's case is circumstantial, to be sure, but he says he believes the Roswell incident was the crash of an experimental aircraft like the one he saw - nothing more or less.=20 "I do believe in UFOs though," Smith says, although he's never seen one.=20 "We're in a galaxy, and I'm an engineer," he says, noting that there are countless stars out there. "There's no reason in the world why they can't have Saturns, Mars and Earths circling around them."=20 Some of those planets, he says, likely have technologically advanced civilizations capable of traveling to Earth.=20 So why does he think such aliens can't be responsible for Roswell?=20 Smith says simply, "I don't think they would ever crash."=20 (Copyright 1997 Lancaster Newspapers)=20 _____via IntellX_____=20 Copyright 1997, Lancaster New Era Lancaster, PA. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of Lancaster New Era Lancaster, PA content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Lancaster New Era Lancaster, PA. Lancaster New Era Lancaster, PA shall not be liable for errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =BF =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 BWW Media Alert 970711 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com (by way of curator <logger@california.com>) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:10:11 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970711 To all museum lists: Nessie people note the Idaho lake monster story... Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before you e-mail them something. In all cases, I'd appreciate it if you make clear that =you= are forwarding it, if you do. Thanks!) July 11, 1997 BUFO WEBSITE COMING You've been asking for it: a Bufo's WEIRD WORLD website should be up (in some form) within about a week. I'm not going to have a lot of room there, but I do expect to be able to have: the current Media Alert; the current Bufo's WEIRD WORLD; books you can buy on these topics; what should be a nice links page; and whatever else I can squeeze in, including possibly archives and a few suprises. I expect to continue these e-mailing lists the same way. I'll let you know when it is up, although like Disneyland, it will never be finished :) MICHAEL LINDEMANN'S MEDIA WATCH SUSPENDED A sad note for now: Michael Lindemann's Media Watch is being suspended (all other functions continue for CNI NEWS, to my knowledge). It may be back, but all the Editors have done a great job (although modesty doesn't permit me to apply that to my brief tenure...although you can ;) ). That won't mean that I'll start covering the weekly fictional stuff: there's just not enough time. Still, I'll do what I can. CLINTON UPSET BY CONTACT One interesting fictional note: CONTACT opens this week, and you'd better hurry to see it in its original form! President Clinton is in it...involuntarily. It's =possible= the White House will ask the movie makers to change that, but we'll see. UFO MUSEUM DIRECTOR NEEDS TEMP STAFF VOLUNTEERS Erik Beckjord asked me to put out the call for people who can help staff his UFO/bigfoot/Loch Ness Monster/crop circle museum in San Francisco while he is out of town in the near future. You can e-mail him at logger@california.com if you are interested. On to the listings! MAGAZINES, NEWSLETTERS, PERIODICALS, ETC. THE ANOMALIST #5, SUMMER 1997. Editors Patrick Huyghe and Dennis Stacy can always be counted on for an interesting and eclectic collection in this twice yearly trade-paperback publication. Articles this time include: TOO MANY ANOMALIES, NOT ENOUGH TIME by T. Peter Park; DEEP SECRETS: IS THE NAVY TELLING IDAHO RESIDENTS A WHOPPER OF A FISH STORY? by Patrick Huyghe, which examines the possiblity that the Navy has used lake monster stories to cover up experiments with submarines; MINDSIGHT: HOW THE BLIND CAN "SEE" DURING NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES (by noted NDE expert Kenneth Ring, and Sharon Cooper; THE CHANNELED MYTHS OF JAMES MERRILL: NEW TALES OF ATLANTIS AND AKHNATON by John Chambers; JULES VERNE: WRITER, PSYCHIC, OR REMOTE VIEWER (by alleged STARGATE remote viewer James W. McMoneagle); UFOS: FOR RAND USE ONLY (by Karl T. Pflock, known for negative evaluations of popular UFO beliefs); and COSMIC DANCERS ON HISTORY'S STAGE: THE PERMANENT REVOLUTION IN THE EARTH SCIENCES by Mike Davis. Check the website (it'll be on my jump-page) at http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist/ . Tell them Bufo sent you. While you're there, don't miss my interview with legendary UFO curmudgeon Louis Stern. UFO REALITY #8, June/July 1997. All-glossy, lavishly-illustrated, heavy on conspiracy British mag. NEWSBYTES is a good round-up. Articles this time include: THE 19TH PARALLEL, MEXICO '97 (PART 2) by Robert LaMont; THE AGARD REPORT by Eris Andrys, looking at Bob Dean's ASSESSMENT; THE WASH INCIDENT by Jon King and Justin Miles-Booy; and A CONVERSATION WITH (Editor) JON KING (PART 2). However, that's just a small part of what's in here. Jon King does a special on Mind Control. Patrick B. Bishop discusses whether we have the ability to build UFOs; lots of reviews and contact information. Website: http://www.ufo-reality.co.uk. If you subscribe, tell them Bufo sent you. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, Patrick Huyghe interview Larry Warren, author (with Peter Robbins) of the new book LEFT AT EAST GATE*. He was one of the witnesses at the Bentwaters military base close encounter. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 7/7 (#112R): DEVIL'S TRIANGLE; ANASAZI CAVE --week of 7/14 (#113R): THE UNDEAD; STALKER (is a film star being stalked by a fan from beyond the grave?) Saturday, July 12 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, Dr. Frank Drake, the leading light in SETI and creator of the Drake Equation, discusses the new movie CONTACT: 5:40 PM, Mars Pathfinder update; 6:00 PM, Kelsey Tyler, author of ANGEL ENCOUNTERS IN EVERYDAY LIFE; 6:30 PM, Pate Keane, Executive Director of the American Society for Psychical Research, talks to listeners about out-of-body-experiences and remote-viewing tests; 7:00 PM, Arthur Meyers discusses communicating with animals; Jim Keith, who has authored a book on Black Helicopters, has a new book out on alleged Men-in-Black encounters...it's not like the movie! 1:30 AM, CNN, FUTURE WATCH: UFO INVESTIGATORS 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: UFOS Sunday, July 13 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Art interviews LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: MUFON STATE DIRECTORS discuss the Australian Conference 10:30 AM, MTV, ABDUCTED! AN MTV NEWS SPECIAL REPORT (may be played for laughs) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: 12:30 PM, CNN, FUTURE WATCH: UFO INVESTIGATORS 1:30 PM, AMERICAN JUSTICE, BOSTON STRANGLER (includes the use of psychics) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY 4:00 PM, SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING (New Jersey); SOLAR OBLITERATION (filming UFOs that are hidden by the sun); THE MESSAGE: alien abductee brings positive thoughts; LOVE TIES 7:00 PM, FOX, BEYOND BELIEF: new series...presents "real" paranormal cases, and phony ones, and you get to guess which ones are which 10:00 PM, SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING (New Jersey); SOLAR OBLITERATION (filming UFOs that are hidden by the sun); THE MESSAGE: alien abductee brings positive thoughts; LOVE TIES Monday, July 14 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. MUFON STATE DIRECTORS discuss the Australian Conference. 12:30 AM, CNN, FUTURE WATCH: UFO INVESTIGATORS 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#22): DEAD SEA SCROLLS; HUMAN HIBERNATION (cryogenics); CITIES OF GOLD 9:00 PM, MTV, ABDUCTED! (may be played for laughs) Tuesday, July 15 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#23): THE BLACK HOPE HORROR (Texas hauntings); UFO ABDUCTIONS; ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS Wednesday, July 16 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#24): INDIAN GHOST STORY; CALICO DIG (controversial evidence of people being in North America a very long time ago); RAILROAD SPIRITS (another Texas haunting) 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS Thursday, July 17 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ELECTRONIC BEYOND (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES: pre-empt 4:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5067): mainly psychics and predictions, it looks like 6:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: 10:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: Friday, July 18 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. NOTE: by next week, I expect to have books available for purchase through my website as well. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:54:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:56:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean >Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> >Subject: Robert Dean >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >Greeting List Members, > To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider that he is >telling us about a Top Secret document that he took an oath to safeguard. >It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a little >oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is flushing the >Constitution of the United States down the toilet. He has done the same >to his oath to protect and defend the Constitution if what he says is >true. > So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a >liar. In either case not a very creditable person. (snip) >Jan Aldrich =========================================================================== Hello Errol, Jan, All, I think the world of Jan Aldrich and all of the hard and conscientious work that he does. But I have to take issue with him in regard to the following statement. >So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a >liar. In either case not a very creditable person. Why only "two possibilities" Jan? Couldn't the man have "broken his oath" in response to the dictates of his conscience? A soldier is not supposed to follow an unlawful/illegal order it is a moral/judgement call and an obligation if in answer to a higher inner authority. We all know that the reality of the UFO/ET presence represents a major event in human history and development. The 'many' have been intentionally kept in the dark by the 'few', (a situation that is rapidly changing) and the (obvious) higher calling, (binding contract/oath if you will) lies with ones connection and responsibilty to the service and welfare of the majority. It is the very definition of a "soldiers" duties. The protection of the citizens of ones own nation. When viewed in this light Bob Dean becomes a true 'patriot' and a 'HERO' in the old fashioned sense of those words. It is why myself and so mmany other abductees have come forward and faced the formidable wrath and ridicule of the "public." Why do you think folks can tolerate that sort of thing? It is the higher calling, the conviction that as long as one tells the simple truth and does it for the benefit of ALL, there's no way to get hurt in the end. (Least wise I certainly hope so! <G> I'd like to live long enough to see us all vindicated.) You have called Bob a 'liar' Jan. That, is not only beneath you, but way out of character. If you have some evidence of lying or deception on the part of Robert Dean, then put it on the table and let's all have a look at it. If not, then we should all take a good, long look at one of the things that breeds disunity and in-fighting within the UFO community. My trip to Roswell brought this home to me in a way that I had never percieved before. If we don't get our act together and stop tearing each other new assholes at every opportunity, we're (ALL) going to get caught with our pants down. Completely unprepared to deal with any "outside agency or force" because we are not together or unified among ourselves. Facts: 1. UFO sightings are up dramatically all over world. 2. Phoenix mass sighting: Everyone's been so busy arguing whether it was "real" or not that the question about "what it means" has escaped everyone. The Phoenix sighting that some of us have been jumping up and down about was a "Demonstration" folks, and a heavy duty "wake up call!" Let's stop acting like the "Donner party" and get our act together. I'm willing to do what I can to help bring some unity and coherence to the UFO community. It will take the will and determination of many to bring it into reality. I'm a firm believer in the axiom that we, "create our own reality, in agreement and conjunction with one another!" What kind of world do we want to create guys? Now _that_ is worthy of some serious thought. I got to meet, listen to, and shake Bob Deans hand while I was in Roswell. More important to me, I got to look into the man's eyes. I'm not Jean Dixon, and I _could_ be completely wrong, but I got the strong sense that Bob is an honest and sincere guy. As any American (or fair minded person) should, Bob Dean is to be considered _completely_ innocent of perpetrating any lies or deceptions until evidence to the contrary has been presented, and the judgement of his peers has been heard. (In an open hearing where Bob Dean can answer any charges and face his accusers directly). Least ways that's what I thought we were all about. This "internet character assassination" without the presentation of "evidence" in accompanyment is new to me man! Anybody can say anything about anybody. Without proof, it's all just so much 'rap' Jan, I'll tell you like Cuba Gooding told Tom Cruise, "Show me the money!" <G> Respectfully, John Velez * * * ********************** ***************************** *********************************** ************************************* ======================================= * jvif@spacelab.net * ************* * * INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE * * ************* * www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html * ======================================= ************************************* *********************************** ***************************** *********************** *********************** *********************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 In Search Of - Update From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 09:22:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:57:26 -0400 Subject: In Search Of - Update On Monday July 28th FOX TV will air "UFOs - The Best Evidence Caught on Tape" at 8 PM. Some of this evidence will come from Phoenix. In further developments, the MUFON Journal has now published Richard Motzer's opposing viewpoint on the Phoenix Lights of March 13th. Richard feels that most of the lights, especially those seen in video footage, are flares lofted by the National Guard unit here. I have responded to that article with documentation. According to State Public Affairs Officer for the Arizona National Guard, Eileen Bienz, the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard did not shoot-off or drop any flares on the night of March 13, 1997. She has put this statement in writing. We did not see these lights at the altitude of 8,900 feet as stated in Richard's article as that would put them at a higher altitude than the Estrella Mountains. Our video itself shows these lights to be lower than the highest point of the Estrellas (4,515 feet) and in front of the mountains over the Gila River. Two of us viewed these lights through a 24x eyepiece of a Celestron telescope and saw no smoke, spark, or suspension apparatus such as a balloon or parachute. The lights came on in one sequence and went off in reverse sequence which you can plainly see on the video. If they were flares, then the first flare would have had a longer burn time than the last flare. A flare manufacturer looked at our video and now several military personnel familiar with flares who either saw the lights or the video has declared them - not flares. They have no relative motion and no descending motion. There were no aircraft in the vicinity of these lights and these lights did not illuminate the terrain. We will soon do a search of the terrain in the vicinity of one of these orb sightings to look for ground residue of any kind. So far, no one has recovered any parachutes of flare material. Luke AFB responses also indicate no knowledge of flares or any involvement with the Phoenix Light phenomena. Flares set off in the Barry Goldwater Test Range near Gila Bend are usually not visible from Phoenix due to releasing these flares at low altitude for training exercises and the impediment of intervening mountain ranges. People do not take note of them. We also have an additional piece of daylight video evidence we have not revealed yet as we are doing further analysis that show these glowing orbs are not flares and have no means of aerial suspension. We are receiving continuing reports of these lights and now have seen video footage from NY that resembles that we have in Phoenix and shows a remarkable cluster of lights over Oneida Lake. We are also receiving reports of a new configuration of a big triangle that has been seen now in this area by more than one witness and as little as 3 days ago. Rather than "fading into history" as Richard Motzer states in his article, this series of sightings will go down in history as a significant event. We are not saying what these lights or objects are, we are not stating they are extraterrestrial, we are stating what we find they are not. These objects very definitely seem to be in the category of unconventional flying objects. Sincerely, Yours truly, Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com NOTE: CHANGE IN WORK E-MAIL: Work e-mail: william.hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan ---------- TO LEAVE THE LIST, send a message to: majordomo@primenet.com with the one line message of: unsubscribe in_search_of <---- End Forwarded Message ----> Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com NOTE: CHANGE IN WORK E-MAIL: Work e-mail: william.hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Alfred's Odd Ode #147 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:37:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:49:37 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #147 Apology to MW #147 (For June 30, 1997) I=92m laughing at ladies of vision discerning Completing inspections, a phallus, concerning The President=92s pee-pee displayed for the learning Alive with its interest, and full of its yearning. And it chased the *poor* girl all around the Gov=92s office. And it grew to command the same man that presents us. . . .The release of desire is at best most contentious, But precludes the important, and it makes some pretentious. And to see this *poor* girl on the magazine=92s screens. The time of her life . . . she is living her dreams. She is primped by the right, massaged with their creams. She has visions of history -- _even_ meeting the queen! =20 =20 Still, in dry Phoenix it flies overhead. Like the change delta sign it should fill some with dread. The triangle _means_ change, so is *delta* instead, And that change is a good thing; I consume its new bread. And still all I hear on the prime nightly news Is the puling of Paula, sad distract that she spews. The partisan right would insure we all lose. All her credit and honor should be lost; she=92ll so choose. =20 All the rest of the first world is laughing at us. We should lose their respect, as we=92ll squander their trust. . . . Like we had it to begin with, and to have it we must. Or our web disappears, and our culture is rust. The alien view sees our blood running yellow. And we don=92t stop the foolishness =96 too selectively mellow. Our systems are spoon fed! They demean, and make shallow. We=92re crass disrespect for a gal, or a fellow. So, fret you away at Bill=92s pud appearance. And marvel his piston=92s timing, and clearance. Brainless while angry -- erected, deterrence As its extant, and spurting =96 neigh, spitting concurrence. "I=92d know it when I saw it," she=92d coyly propose. It must mark like stigmata. It must open and close! It must stand like a mountain, if simile chose, That a wart on it hangs, like Durante=92s grand nose! Lehmberg@snowhill.com She could have said, "You know Bill. . .it looks like a man=92s penis =96 only smaller," and then left the room to be the winner of that exchange. Yet, she lingered. . . and turned it into an encounter . . . tittering later, with her girlfriends =96 allowing her flame to be fanned by *someone* who is paying for her time. . . and this is *assuming* her veracity, of course. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. Later, these same fundamentalists would speculate on the presedent's pee-pee. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Roswell Congressman Believes In UFOs From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:29:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:51:24 -0400 Subject: Roswell Congressman Believes In UFOs From The New York Post, Page Six, July 7 1997: http://www.nypostonline.com:80/monday/page6/page61.htm Powerful ally AT least one-member of Congress is gung-ho in the search for extraterrestials. Asked by Washington weekly The Hill if he thinks aliens ever visited earth, Republican Rep. Joe Skeen, fittingly elected from UFO hotspot Roswell, N.M., says, "There's a great possibility. I wouldn't discount it. I've lived through the era of a lot of things that are almost unbelievable, unthought of, unimaginable. In our part of the country we're used to seeing the unimaginable really happen." As for the Air Force's insistence that the alleged crash in 1947 was a weather balloon and the bodies supposedly retrieved were actually crash test dummies dropped nine years later but simply confused by the faulty memories of locals, Skeen sniffs, "The Air Force doesn't help their own case because they're getting confused between '47 and '56."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 AP: Live From Mars - Or Is That New Mexico? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:50:42 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:52:23 -0400 Subject: AP: Live From Mars - Or Is That New Mexico? Live From Mars -- or Is That New Mexico? Associated Press Sunday, July 13, 1997; Page A19 The Washington Post=20 PHILADELPHIA, July 12 Did Pathfinder and Sojourner really land on Mars? There are a lot of skeptics out there on the Internet. Ever since the July 4 landing, talk has been fast and furious on Usenet, the Internet's vast array of no-holds-barred discussion groups that offer electronic soap boxes for anyone with an opinion on anything. Pan left with that Pathfinder camera and you'll see either an alien spacecraft hovering on the Mars horizon or a discarded Evian water bottle tucked under the large rock dubbed "Barnacle Bill" -- depending on which end of the hyper-skeptical spectrum you believe. "The images are obviously fake," said one posting on the newsgroup "sci.space.policy" on July 5, noting that NASA's pictures look like red-tinted photos of some New Mexico desert. Only a handful of newsgroup contributors say they actually believe the National Aeronautics and Space Administration has staged a real-life reenactment of "Capricorn One" -- the 1978 movie about the government building a secret movie set to stage a manned mission to Mars. But the government is up to something, many of them warn. "The probe in fact has landed on Mars and will continue to send back photos and data . . . until life is found there," said a July 5 posting to the "alt.conspiracy" newsgroup. "Then the transmissions will cease and the U.S. government will say it was a malfunction in the equipment, when in fact NASA is still receiving messages and signals." Alien watchers and conspiracy theorists once were kindred spirits -- joining forces about the alleged government coverup of a 1947 spaceship crash in Roswell, N.M. But the question of whether Pathfinder is sitting on Mars or in New Mexico has UFO aficionados hurling insults at each other. Some even question the reality of the extremists. Mike Rivero, a regular newsgroup contributor, believes the government planted them to divide legitimate skeptics. "The manufacturing of `kooks' and the linking of them to those who ask reasonable questions . . . is an old tactic," Rivero said in an e-mail exchange Friday. Rivero sponsors a Web page showing a panoramic picture of the Mars landscape. But on his version, you can pan to the left and see a UFO flying off to the left of Barnacle Bill. On another Web page, Mike Brown, a San Antonio television producer, displays out-of-focus pictures of bottle caps and plastic containers that appear to be littering NASA's Mars pictures. In just five days, the page attracted 6,000 visits. "I never dreamed it would get the response it has," he said. "I have a huge archive Web page of all the e-mails I've received. . . . Some of them are a little scary, if you know what I mean." =20 =A9Copyright 1997 The Associated Press
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean From: EdKomarek@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:53:45 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean >From: Anastasia Wietrzychowska <MufonCT@AOL.COM> >Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:00:10 -0400 >Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:47:44 -0400 >Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Robert Dean >In a message dated 97-07-03 10:06:30 EDT, you write: >> So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an >>oath-breaker or a >>lair. In either case not a very creditable person. >Jan: >Such a harsh indictment!! Surely your understandable frustrations are >surfacing here >I cannot believe that you really judge so rigidly and >implacably those >people who broke laws, vows, security oaths, etc in, say, >World War II... > You would surely NOT call them "liars and untrustworthy" whose >consciences >could not allow them to continue committing ever GREATER WRONGS for >their Axis >masters.... do you truly feel they should be despised for their >very >altruism and selfless courage? I think not. Good post Anastasia, I agree. I have talked to Bob and he was very sincere about why he felt he had to break his security oath. He said it was a very difficult decision he had to make for the good of humanity. I applaud him for having the courage to do the right thing. I have yet to see any evidence that Dean has done anything other than tell the truth. I also believe that Deans military background has held up to scrutiny. Evidence for this is that the debunkers have not been able to throw doubt on his background and credentials. And believe me they would if the could. >While you rightly enough point out that Dean's story is not readily >provable, BUT, unless there is proof of intended duplicity, it is >appropriate to take a person at their word. (Just as you deserve to be >taken). Consider, that to make his rank, he must have been fairly well >thought of by his superiors. >Yes, I think very delicate assessments are in order, don't you? I would like to add a additional bit of evidence here. Jan should also be aware that Deans testimony is backed up by another individual. Dr. Wolf author of the Catchers From Heaven has confirmed the existence of The Assessment and has stated that he to has seen this document. --------------------------------------------------- Hi Bob, good to see you posting to Updates. Of course we all would like to work together in peace and harmony. But as you can see from the post already by Jan today on Updates the possibilities of that are quite remote. In my opinion its going to be a cat fight until the coverup ends and even after that. The truth does not come easily to this world so we must struggle to get the truth to the people. As long as there are those who have agendas other than peace and harmony we will have to play on that level. This is a balance I have to struggle with daily. Do I stand above the fray, surrounded on my land by the natural world and accomplish little, or do I jump into this world and struggle so that I and others may know the truth? The best to all, Ed Komarek (ORTK) -------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to the ORTK BULLETIN by Ed Komarek send mail to: listserve@awaiter.com with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe ortk-bulletins
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Back, Brown & Beat... From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:09:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:54:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Back, Brown & Beat... The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:00:12 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Back, Brown & Beat... >Many thanks for your patience whilst Sue and I took >a couple of weeks off in New Mexico. It was a break >we both needed. Now we both need a break to get over >the break. :^) And not before time! Subscribers who have not witnessed the phenomenon with their own trained observers' eyes probably have little idea of the amount of time and effort it takes to run this List, and in such a manner that it seems to have attracted almost everyone worth hearing from in ufology (those with e-mail, at least). We all owe Errol, and Sue too, a debt of gratitude, whatever we may individually think or feel about other subscribers and their work and wheezes. So, while it's good to have the ufological fray unfolding almost daily before one's amazed eyes once again, let's not forget the sweat that goes into this service that we all enjoy for free. Raise your glasses, folks, and cue something noisy from about 1963. yours from the shadows P. Mendoza Bazookastrike "All is not Roswell" --Pat Parinello
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest - another From: meccam@erols.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:04:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:55:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest - another > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:09:45 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) > Subject: Report on Great Roswell Loonfest > We lasted only about 20 hours in town. We were charmed, then amused, then anno yed, then SCREAMING TO GET THE HELL OUT. > There is no way that Rachel, Nevada, can compete with Roswell as the > "UFO Capital". Rachel is just a couple of Joes selling T-shirts, while > Roswell is big league alien exploitation......We needed to visit the Great Loo nfest to say we had done it, but I never want to see Roswell again. I beg to differ - it's all in what you chose to do. I was in town since Thursday night, and never went near the intense vendor stuff. Instead, I had the tremendous pleasure of meeting several people from this list (including being sort of adopted by Errol and Sue, bless their hearts!), went to the conference, saw some previously unreleased video footage, met more people involved in the field, talked to a number of abductees (learned alot!), and spoke to a friend of my father, lifelong Roswell native - heard some great stories! I had a stupendous time - best event since Woodstock in 1969 (ok, I date myself - let's pretend I was a precocious 10 year old at the time). Very intense energy, everyone talking about aliens openly, wonderful friendly townspeople (amazing personalities they had, for dummies :) ), and some gorgeous scenery through the southern mountains - what's not to like?????? Methinks you have chosen to be negative - let the small stuff get in your way. Remember the Buddha - "This world is Nirvana." And "One woman's meat is another (man's) road kill." Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:58:40 -0400 Subject: Re: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 John Velez wrote on July 13: > What a shame that we live in a world where a Michael Jordan is > worth millions, and where teachers for example or the brave and courageous >pioneers such as some of those I have mentioned, have to scramble around >and dedicate so much of their energies to eking out a living. Sometimes >publicly shredding and humiliating each other in the process. It has been >painful for me as a private citizen/abductee that cares about elevating the >public awareness and consciousness of this phenomenon to witness this >shameful 'in house' bickering and fighting. (SF & KR are ya listenin!) >> Okay, I'm tired of this crap. Do you have a single example of either Stan or me saying anything negative in a public arena about the other while in Roswell? Huh? Do Yah? No? Then stop this allegation because all you are doing is suggesting in house bickering where it no longer exists. I will, however, reserve my right to disagree with Stan, and with you, if you make ridiculous allegations based on your beliefs. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Daylight AZ UFOs on Fox News From: xalium@netwrx.net (dfg) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:45:12 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:12:31 -0400 Subject: Daylight AZ UFOs on Fox News Report by Tom King More strange daylight UFOs were recording on July 11, 12, and 13 in Scottsdale, AZ by Jeff Ferris. Jeff took his new videocamera over to a friend of his who was reporting that the UFOs were flying over his neighborhood. He shot footage for 2 days and called the media. Jeff brought the footage over on saturday night to view at my house and I decided to invited the entire Arizona Skywatch International team to investigate these sightings. Channel 10 news, showed up to do investigate and captured 2 of the objects on their news camera. There were multiple objects in the sky. Some were explained as grocery bags, others are simply unexplainable at this time. The white and yellow objects were at very high altitude and some were twice the altitude of local commercial air traffic. Over 6 videocameras were attempting to capture these objects with one 2,000 mm telescope attached to a 35 mm camera. 23 still pictures were taken and they will be developed tommorow. Some of the videos show white objects hovering in the sky. Most of the unknown objects were to high to videotape. Many of them were near the Moon. One Skywatch member, Casey Smith, had a scanner operating and we did hear Skyhabor Airport report they had an object at 4,900 ft that hadn't been idenitfied. It was heard by several people including the media who reported on it. More skywatchs will be planned in the future to tape these strange objects. [Tom King]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 News Flash from Mars From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jul 97 07:40:52 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:31:09 -0400 Subject: News Flash from Mars AIR FORCE DENIES STORIES OF UFO CRASH Valles Marineris (MPI) - A spokesthing for Mars Air Force denounced as false rumors that an alien space craft crashed in the desert, outside of Ares Vallis on Friday. Appearing at a press conference today, General Rgrmrmy The Lesser, stated that "the object was, in fact, a harmless high-altitude weather balloon, not an alien spacecraft". The story broke late Friday night when a major stationed at nearby Ares Vallis Air Force Base contacted the Valles Marineris Daily Record with a story about a strange, balloon-shaped object which allegedly came down in the nearby desert, "bouncing" several times before coming to a stop, "deflating in a sudden explosion of alien gases". Minutes later, General Rgrmrmy The Lesser contacted the Daily Record telepathically to contradict the earlier report. General Rgrmrmy The Lesser stated that hysterical stories of a detachable vehicle roaming across the Martian desert were blatant fiction, provoked by incidences involving swamp gas. But the general public has been slow to accept the Air Force's explanation of recent events, preferring to speculate on the "other-worldly" nature of the crash debris. Conspiracy theorists have condemned Rgrmrmy's statements as evidence of "an obvious government cover-up", pointing out that Mars has no swamps. ----End Forwarded Message(s)----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Back, Brown & Beat... From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jul 97 08:34:05 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Back, Brown & Beat... >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:05:18 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Back, Brown & Beat... > >. . . , Linda Mouldy Cowe still swearing > >by the MJ-12 documents _and_ the autopsy footage . . . Errol, I must agree with Steve that this sort of personal attack has no place here. I've gotten to know Linda quite well, and have read both of her books, and about 2/3 of the new one in galley proof form. I don't agree with her on everything, either, but Linda is a serious researcher with a very keen mind and does not deserve to be dismissed in this cavalier manner. I don't know if the MJ-12 documents are totally real, partially real (disinformation), or a very clever hoax, and am keeping an open mind on them. Similarly, on the AA film. I don't know what it is, but I know a number of things that it positively is not, and recently crafted fake is one of them. BTW, I was not at Roswell. I had many invitations to come, but decided that there was no point in attending a freak show/circus. I didn't got to Woodstock, either. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:40:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:43:55 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles Hello List, At 04:02 AM 7/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:15:35 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: bufocalvin@aol.com >Subject: CANCER!!!!! Assist immediately!!!!/Urgent! [ Snip ] >Both myself and CSETI research director Shari Adamiak have been >diagnosed with metastatic cancer. Both have appeared, rather >enigmatically, at the same time, a fact which seems like a rather >strange coincidence. [ Snip ] >If you can donate even a small amount to this special fund,please >do so now. Make the donation to CSETI and earmark it for the >Healing Fund. Donations are tax-deductible. [ End ] What is this sopposed to mean ? I waited for any reaction from the list, but as none appeared, I'll go out and shoot the duck. Although I feel sorry for Mr Greer and Shari that they have been diagnosed with Cancer, I feel even more sorry for those millions of people that are diagnosed with cancer, and that nobody has heard about. My mother being one of them, I would never beg for mony over the net. What happened to health insurance anyway ? So If anyone feels compassion for Mr Greer's problems, I suggest you donate it to your national Cancer Research Fund, so that everybody with cancer can profit from it. Then there is also the possibility that he isn't telling the thruth, and that the mony he is asking for is actually going to end up somwhere else .... Best Regards, Karel Bagchus. -------------------------====### KUFOR ###====--------------------- Karel's UFO Research Karel Bagchus E-mail: karel@worldonline.nl WWW: http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ ICQ: 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:02:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:45:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean Just a couple of comments to add to the discussion, but much of the previous posts have been deleted for brevity. Please review the earlier postings for the complete picture. >>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 >>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> >>Subject: Robert Dean >>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > >>Greeting List Members, > >> To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider that he is >>telling us about a Top Secret document that he took an oath to safeguard. >>It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a little >>oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is flushing the >>Constitution of the United States down the toilet. He has done the same >>to his oath to protect and defend the Constitution if what he says is >>true. > >> So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a >>liar. In either case not a very creditable person. > >(snip) > >>Jan Aldrich >=========================================================================== >Hello Errol, Jan, All, > >I think the world of Jan Aldrich and all of the hard and conscientious work >that he does. But I have to take issue with him in regard to the following >statement. > >>So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a >>liar. In either case not a very creditable person. > >Why only "two possibilities" Jan? Couldn't the man have "broken his oath" >in response to the dictates of his conscience? A soldier is not supposed to >follow an unlawful/illegal order it is a moral/judgement call and an >obligation if in answer to a higher inner authority. While this sounds good, I'm not sure that it fits the military framework. Who is to define an "unlawfull/illegal order" in a time of war. Soldiers are primarily trained to become fighting machines, not to second guess the decisions of their superiors. In basic training the individual is transformed into a member of a fighting unit, and that usually leaves little room for contemplation of "higher inner authority". We are talking about people trained to kill when orderred to do so, and while the technology is more advanced, the goal is still the same. With that being said, the question of whether Dean should be taken to task for disclosing information after the fact is perhaps a bit different. If Dean is telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt his word, then he is technically an "oath breaker" and could face prosecution. On the other hand, it is unlikely that the military would lend credibility to his story by taking legal action. History, in the end, will be written by the victors in this matter and that will define how his actions are viewed by those that follow. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Alfred's Odd Ode #152 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:25:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:47:43 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #152 Apology to MW #152 (For July 13, 1997) Plugged in the *allowed* of Hubble=92s grand eye My mind is deep fried with what we can spy. It is dashed on the rocks of its timeless expanse. It is matter in motion=92s creation =96 a dance! And the steps are all lively, the stars are festooned With garlands of galaxies, and skeptic=92s lampooned. The concept of *anything=92s* found in its reaches, Orbiting planets like sand on our beaches. =20 And out of these orbits come mysterious folks, That tempt and confuse. . .perhaps it=92s a joke! They hover and flutter alive in our skies; In spite of deception, and government lies! Alive is the universe where all can occur. It is filled the possible, no thing is deterred. Conceived, it is FACT in the space far from here. And more is un-thought of =96 beyond weird, and past queer. I=92m amazed that they=92re hidden in unexplained smoke! I=92m amazed they don=92t spill it, and just go for broke! I=92m amazed they=92re not landing on everyone=92s lawn, On their stoops, in their kitchens, and out in their pond! To flatly turn your back on this as not relevant to strife. . . Is to make a bad investment gaining interest all your life. It=92s the rarest of your news getting better with the age The BAD, then, not at all, says an ancient clay page.=20 The hubble takes movies of stars that are splashing! On rocks of *themselves* they are crashing, and smashing! In wombs of star stuff stars are born as young babes, Then ejected plus planets, with which they may play. And life is in abundance, and older, far, than us. Beyond complaining and explaining, they are extant out past trust. In the meeting of two cultures where advantage meets the one The lessor in advantage takes the heat, and has no fun. Like, send me back in time when the Aztecs made their rhyme. The time of Montezuma before Cortez came in kind. I=92d have warned the Aztec King what the Spanish had to bring. =20 Then I=92d clean up human sacrifice, as a waste of songs to sing. And all of that no trouble, after looking through the Hubble, There is space enough to dream about the bursting of your bubble. The one you can=92t deny as it floats before your eye, The eye above the mountains that may see beyond the sky. Lehmberg@snowhill.com I think I pay for an unfiltered look through that instrument =96 what do you think _you_ pay for? --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for wanting his money's worth. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: In Search Of - Update From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:09:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:47:11 -0400 Subject: Re: In Search Of - Update > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 7/14/97 1:57 PM: > From: bhamilto@pcshs.com > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 09:22:28 -0700 > Subject: [In_Search_Of] UFO Update > To: updates@globalserve.net > In further developments, the MUFON Journal has now published Richard > Motzer's > opposing viewpoint on the Phoenix Lights of March 13th. Richard feels that > most of the lights, especially those seen in video footage, are flares > lofted by the National Guard unit here. I have responded to that article > with documentation. According to State Public Affairs Officer for the > Arizona National Guard, Eileen Bienz, the Army National Guard and the > Air National Guard did not shoot-off or drop any flares on the night of > March 13, 1997. She has put this statement in writing. > We are receiving continuing reports of these lights and now have seen > video footage from NY that resembles that we have in Phoenix and shows > a remarkable cluster of lights over Oneida Lake. In this context, perhaps you will find some of the material newly added to the UFO section of my web site to be of interest. Updates was down when I made the release, so here's what I wrote: Interested in the recent Arizona sightings? Did you know that 104 years ago, a similar sighting occurred in the North China Sea? Four similar cases have been added to The Temporal Doorway UFO section, with photos and sketches. These are included in the correlated sighting catalog under the new heading Large Crescent / Boomerang / String Of Lights: 2/24-25/1893 Captain J.N. Norcross and crew, North China Sea, 10 PM Shipboard observation of a string of lights above the ship and near the horizon which varies in appearance from mass to string, to shallow and sharp crescent 7/3/97 8/25/51 Ducker et. al.; Hart (photographer), Lubbock, TX, 9:10PM "The Lubbock Lights" - A hundred or more persons, including several college professors, observe a fast flying formation of lights which recurs at least 12 times on subsequent nights across a period of weeks and is photographed 7/3/97 1983-84 Hudson Valley, NY, CT Hundreds or thousands of witnesses observe a slow moving enormous UFO 7/6/97 Special note for this list: There is a drawing from the observations at the Indian Head nuclear power plant which bears a strong resemblance to the AZ 3/13 video tape - the sketch is at the site. 3/13/97 Many witnesses, Paulden, Prescott, and Pheonix AZ, 8:16PM Hundreds or thousands of witnesses observe a slow moving enormous UFO, which is video taped by many, over Pheonix You can reach the correlated sightings catalog directly at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ufocorr.htm Or the UFO section at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ufo.htm ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art and writing mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 A Clarification Re: What I did for my Summer From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:07:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:36:01 -0400 Subject: A Clarification Re: What I did for my Summer Hello All, The news of my demise has been greatly exagerated! I have been recieving a small flood of letters from friends who are "concerned" about me because of my last post! I am an open book to all who know me and I guess because folks are not used to publicly discussing things financial, I ended up 'shocking' and 'worrying' a few friends with my candor. (Although if we were all more open with each other about all aspects of our lives, we'd feel much closer to one another and make it easier to recognize that we're all just team mates on the same playing field!) What I've done is something I needed to do, disassociate myself from the Intruders Foundation and (any) individual researcher. This decision has nothing to do with Budd personally or the existance of any (bad blood) between us. I love and respect Budd Hopkins for all the help he's given to myself and my family. My reason for the break is two-fold. My involvement on the internet working with the folks that come to me via the IF website requires twelve to fourteen hours a day, seven days a week of unpaid time. That's no lie or exageration. It literally leaves me no time to tend to myself or my own. I'm hoping that by 'freeing up' my time I'll be able to apply more of it to generating income and developing a way to use my talents (that will simultaneously permit me to have a life!) The situation I am in now (working for Budd and the Foundation) does not permit any of that, so I've just done what I had to do. Again, it's not Budds fault, he just isn't in a position to 'salary' me for my time and effort. It's been a labor of love on my part, pure and simple. It was never about (money) but after all this time, $ has become an issue for me and something that I had to do something about. The other reason I'm severing ties is, everytime I open my mouth publicly it reflects on Budd and the Foundation. I need to find my own voice and create my own space. Besides, I've never been a 'groupie' and I don't like it that some folks think that me and Budd are connected at the hip, or that I am anyones, "pet abductee." (or, as my buddy Greg has called me, the Intruders Foundation 'Abduction Posterboy'! <VBG>) I wanna be like Popeye! "I yam what I yam, an dats all what I yam!" <G> I am working on a "Home Page" for myself. (It's about time too!) Where I will try to utilize/market and some of my own talents and abilities. I hope to generate a little work/income by doing 'online' (and 'in person' when do-able) counselling with folks that suspect they are having UFO or abduction related experiences. I also have a (ton) of UFO related material that I have gathered/collected/been a part of, over the years and I hope to get a little work doing speaking engagements. (Groups and organizations pay attention! <G>) And last, but certainly not least, I'm going to advertize and make my services as a graphic artist/web designer available to all and concentrate on developing that as a source of income as well. So, all I have really done is rearrange my priorities, free up some of my own time for myself and my family, and sever a few connections that had begun to weigh heavilly upon me. I am well and happy and free as a bird. Please don't worry or fret over me or mine. I'm not really 'going anywhere!' I will look forward to the continued kind support that I have recieved from so many. I sincerely hope that this clears up any questions or concerns anyone may have about me or the decision that I've made. I also hope that my candor has provided those who think that we (abductees) are raking in money for going public, or after some kind of twisted fame by associating with well know researchers, get the message and take a lesson. Sooner or later those folks will begin to realize that (some of us) are just honest and ordinary family folks trying to do the "right thing." I've paid a price, none can give or ask for more. I just want to be able to create a situation where I get to stand on my own two feet (while) I do the work I have taken onto myself. Alive and well, in free fall and unaffiliated in the Big Apple, John Velez, Hombre Privado :) Will advise all via this list when my "Home Page" is finally up. Look forward to your visit and support. Juan John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: Assassination Executive Order From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:20:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:43:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Assassination Executive Order At 12:48 AM 07/14/97 -0400, "Armen Victorian" wrote: >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:17:42 -0400 >From: armen victorian <Zius@compuserve.com> >Subject: Assassination Executive Order >To: "Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> >A while ago in the course of one of my mailings, I mentioned the current >on-going study into the possibilities of highly classified Executive >Orders. This, I stated based on my findings then with regards to the >involvement of an individual in some of the United States' most covert, >and classified operations. >Consequently, as follow up, we received a number of documents from the >individual concerned, which in close examination of existing documents in >my own archives signed by the same President, on the following count tend >to be authentic. Although, more follow up forensic examinations are >required to prove their actual authenticity. Due to the nature and the >gravity of their contents, I produce a copy of one of them. That, if proven >authentic would have far reaching political ramifications; >D.G. Chip Tatum >Codename: Pegasus You can see this documented fully in graphical form at the following URL - http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html Bear in mind this is a large HTML file with multiple thumbnails of actual scanned documents. The alleged Bush-signed document is but one of many. I have followed the Chip Tatum story for a long, long time. It has been one of the items discussed at great length, pro and con on the CIADRUGS mailing list - ciadrugs@mars.galstar.com . I include the following strictly for information's sake from a long time member of the aforementioned list. Make of it what you will. --- begin included message ---- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:25:15 -0700 To: ciadrugs@mars.galstar.com From: Allen Comstock <comstock@wild-life.com> Subject: ciadrugs] Bush Seal on Hit Man Order After queries, a reliable source advises (1) that the Bush private order was embossed with the Presidential seal, and the seal is present on the original in Tatum's possession. (2) The Bush letter is intentionally undated for purposes of extending the period of it's effectiveness. The other similar mission documents Tatum possesses are also undated, embossed and personally signed as was the usua l practice of President Bush when ordering such sensitive operations. My source advises that if the letters were dated, regulations would have limited their validity and effectiveness to a period of no more than one year. (3) Further, my source claims that an additional proof of the Bush document's authenticity is th at if Tatum was the proponent of a forged Presidential document he likely would be subject to prosecution under Federal law. We would appreciate any comments from legal experts in regard to the above. Bush letter to Tatum code name Pegasus: http://www.wild-life.com/TatumPages/TatumHome.html Allen Comstock --- end included message --- Now, however interesting and intriguing this topic is, I don't see any significant relevance to _UFOlogy_ unless you can directly connect Bush to ET (excepting Dan Quayle, of course). Did Bush sign-off on "hit documents" on aliens? I don't think so. Of course, you are free to call up Ron Pandolfi at the CIA Science Directorate "wierd desk" and grill him about it but I 'spect you won't get anything definite from him, except the usual cat and mouse "plausible deniability" speech and a good chuckle at your expense. There are those that say that Mena ties both Clinton and Bush together but that's a topic best left on other more appropriate lists. Did you have a point for posting this here? Please elucidate. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Re: What I did on summer vacation 1 of 2 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:01:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: What I did on summer vacation 1 of 2 >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:42:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 >John Velex wrote on July 13: >> What a shame that we live in a world where a Michael Jordan is >> worth millions, and where teachers for example or the brave and courageous > >pioneers such as some of those I have mentioned, have to scramble around > >and dedicate so much of their energies to eking out a living. Sometimes > >publicly shredding and humiliating each other in the process. It has been > >painful for me as a private citizen/abductee that cares about elevating the > >public awareness and consciousness of this phenomenon to witness this > >shameful 'in house' bickering and fighting. (SF & KR are ya listenin!) >Okay, I'm tired of this crap. Do you have a single example of either Stan or >me saying anything negative in a public arena about the other while in >Roswell? Huh? Do Yah? No? Then stop this allegation because all you >are doing is suggesting in house bickering where it no longer exists. I will, >however, reserve my right to disagree with Stan, and with you, if you >make ridiculous allegations based on your beliefs. Geez Kevin, I never realized how 'sensitive' you were before! I was referring to, "SF" Solly Feemus and "KR" Kalph Ramden. I was so surprized to get such an 'emotion laden' reaction from you! (What on earth) ever gave you the impression I was referring to you or Stan? <EG> We must be very full of ourselves these days Mr Randle, very full indeed to think that 'all others can do' is to talk about you! <VBG> *"8 ball, corner pocket, off the cushion!" PING, PING, PING, one down, several hundred to go! (Wise old axiom: Don't show yer ass unless you want em ta see it!) You may put away your tusch and go home now Mr Randle, it must have been a case of mistaken identity on my part. Maybe I was twice mistaken and I was really reading (someone elses) e-mail! <VBG> The night is young,...and already they have set loose the hounds. Beware all ye with great gobs of meat in yer pockets! "Truth" is a nasty little pit-bull that doesn't let go once it has sunk its teeth into you. Voice in the wilderness, "Let's get it together folks, before it's too late!" Respectfully, John Velez, Alien Spawn _______________________ [Don't seem to be any allusion to Kevin or Stan's Roswell appearances in Rosewell in John's original message. Perhaps Senhor Velez was alluding to discussions on UpDates in the past? - ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Alfred's Odd Ode #153 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:29:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:14:17 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #153 Apology to MW #153 (For July 12, 1997) Though competently done, and filled with weird fun, This movie spit in your eye! "Men In Black" was a bust, as it neutered the thrust In our search of anomalous sky. It softened the edge of the secret society That operates beyond all control. These agents are *needed*, the movie *concedes* it; Secret agents on shadow patrol. They skulked all about with anomalous weapons; They rewrote the minds of the hapless indeed; They fired their weapons, in spite of what happened; They called it "world saving" but they practiced deceit. They even told you it was necessary! They even said it=92s done for you. To live your helpless, hapless life They obfuscate what=92s true. Will is too young to know what he=92s doing . . . Just making things last as long as they will. He=92s cresting his wave, and he=92d just as soon stay; Where=92s pay, or attention, and a chance for a thrill. I always thought Tommy Lee was an artist! His performance is riveting, convincing, and dear. I find it compelling, and no less foretelling That HE be the agent we should learn to fear! Tommy told you himself what the rational was. Humans want to be kept in the dark. Fed from the waste end, and kept in the dark end The lies are expected, and stark. Are you seeing the moral the story is playing? That black Ops are needed, and cool! But who=92s the real loser, and who=92s the real chooser Who but the audience is played for a fool! "MIB" is a dodge by those most in the know. It is a clever obfuscation. Just some special effects that distract and affect . . . . . . Something to put your brain on vacation. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Completely disrespectful . . . but otherwise, it was a _killer_ film <g>! --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for crossing the Men In Black. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 DISPATCH SPECIAL -- an important update about From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:56:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:40:36 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH SPECIAL -- an important update about DISPATCH SPECIAL -- an important update about ParaScope Dear Dispatch Subscriber: We're bringing you this special edition of the ParaScope Dispatch to alert you to a plethora of new stories we'll be running this week. Due to the recent Roswell UFO Encounter, our newsletter has been running on an odd production cycle, but you can expect the regular Dispatch to return this Saturday, July 19, complete with the Rant of the Week and much, much more. Thanks for your patience. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming up this week in ParaScope, catch these stories daily on AOL or all at once Thursday on the web: Tuesday, July 15: The Derrel Files During the recent "50th anniversary" Roswell convention, ParaScope reported on a news conference sponsored by film producer Paul Davids, where the results of tests on a purported piece of Roswell debris were presented. The debris was originally obtained by one Derrel Sims, self-proclaimed "alien hunter," who declined to disclose specific details regarding the origin of the material. If he will not disclose his source, we are left to rely on his word. But who is Derrel Sims? Is he someone whose word can be trusted? ParaScope presents "The Derrel Files" to provide deeper background on the man who claims to have engaged in intergalactic battle with the alien leader Mondoz. ------------------------------ Wednesday, July 16: The "Crash Test Dummies" Report The USAF's recently-issued Roswell report, "Case Closed," attained instant notoriety among some ufologists. The document, which attempts to explain the origins of the many eyewitness reports regarding an alleged UFO crash near Roswell, was scorned practically at face value. Does "Case Closed" explain what happened on Mac Brazel's ranch in July 1947? Dossier editor Jon Elliston gives the USAF report an even-handed appraisal, complete with "crash test dummy" photos, eyewitness testimony comparisons and more. ------------------------------ Thursday, July 17: Virgin Mary Does Windows Office buildings aren't usually spiritual places. But after a shimmering image resembling the Virgin Mary appeared on a nondescript office building in Clearwater, Florida, more than 1.5 million believers flocked to the site to pay homage. Skeptics say the image is merely a random creation of mineral deposits from water used to clean the windows, but building owner Mike Krizmanich believes the apparition was a "gift from God" and plans to turn the entire building into a shrine! Fatima it's not, but get the scoop on the Virgin Mary's latest...uh...domestic appearance. ------------------------------ Friday, July 18: Arsenals for a Psycho-Civilized Society As the threat of global warfare diminishes and the cold war slowly fades into history, the military-industrial complex is working with government and law enforcement to re-allocate more and more weapons to fight the "enemy within." And a new class of weapons is being developed to fight "bloodless" battles, fry computer circuitry and control human minds en masse. ParaScope presents David G. Guyatt's exhaustively-researched and documented synopsis of Electromagnetic Weapons, prepared for the Red Cross (ICRC) symposium "The Medical Profession and the Effects of Weapons." Get the scoop on this ominous turn towards a "psycho-civilized society," from early Japanese attempts to manufacture a "death ray" to current law enforcement expenditures on EM arsenals. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 14 Swamp Gas Journal, Volume 8, Number 1, Summer 1997 From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:31:32 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:25:18 -0400 Subject: Swamp Gas Journal, Volume 8, Number 1, Summer 1997 Volume 8 The Swamp Gas Journal ISSN 0707-7106 Number 1 Summer 1997 Okay, so this issue is a bit late in appearing. But, while I find myself doing a great deal of writing, most of it is online and in emails. The electronic revolution is taking its toll by making news old before it gets distributed. I only have to go onto IRC to hear the latest about the Mars probe, without waiting for a post to appear in Updates or Roundup. It's a challenge to come up with information that hasn't let been bounced around the ether for awhile. Yet, there are some things that either haven't been said or have been said but ignored by the masses. There are UFO cases and Fortean events that need telling and disseminating and there have been personal comments made to me but which deserve wider circulation. This particular issue was in preparation since about February of 1997, but for one reason or another is just finding its way through the net now. So, let us recap some of the "breaking news" of the past several months ... Hale Mary, out in space ... It may seem repetitious to begin another issue of the Swamp Gas Journal with a discussion of some of the silly or absurd claims circulating in ufology, but this time, ufology deserves it. Certainly one of the most bizarre stories advocated in ufology was that of the Hale-Bopp "companion" - known affectionately as the Hale-Mary. First of all, astronomers had known about Comet Hale-Bopp for a few years, and had been predicting it would put on a good show. We were treated last year to Comet Hyakutake, which seems to have got some people "hooked" on astronomy. Hyakutake was a nice naked-eye object which I observed through my bedroom window and later from a field near my home where it showed a good tail. David Levy boasted he could see a 70-degree tail, but that was in Arizona! Anyway, possibly because amateur astronomical equipment is getting relatively cheap, many people have been able to buy some impressive scopes and systems. In fact, even a low-end computer-controlled, commercially-available scope is much better than some of the equipment I used in undergraduate astronomy. Back then, Schmidt cameras were all the rage; snipping unexposed film in a dark hood and slipping it inside the focal plane clips was awkward, but gave us some nice photos of distant galaxies. These days, if you even *bother* to do your own observing instead of just using a software program or downloading images from the Internet, you can use a computer-run CCD camera to electronically capture astro GIFs of your choice. And, in antithesis to dedicated amateur astronomy, with astro software hooked up to your telescope, you don't even need to be familiar with the night sky or even basic astronomical principles. Just highlight your selected deep-sky target from the pull-down menu, and a few minutes later, it's on your computer screen. Last fall, when Hale-Bopp began getting hyped up in the media, a guy named Chuck Shramek used his computerized scope system to take a look at it. He says that when he did, he saw a "saturn-shaped object" near the comet. According to his software program, the object was not a star or other astronomical body. For some reason, Shramek thought the object was mysterious enough that he agreed to appear on the infamous Art Bell radio show and tell the world about his discovery. While he insisted that he never claimed it was a spaceship, it was hyped up and lauded as some sort of alien device accompanying the comet in its flight. In fact, some "experts" who were "scientific remote viewers" claimed that the object was several times the size of the Earth and was transmitting signals to the Earth which had been detected by radio astronomers. Ed Dames, one such expert scientific remote viewer, said that the object contained a large quantity of a pathogen which will reach Earth and destroy all terrestrial vegetation in 1997. Since I'm active on the Internet, I received many queries from people wanting my opinion on the Hale-Mary photos, quizzing me on IRC. So, I downloaded Shramek's photo and immediately laughed. It was so obviously a diffraction spike or CCD artefact, I simply could not believe that anyone would be taking this seriously. I was surprised, then, to find myself flamed by Shramek supporters who insisted that HM was real and that there was no explanation for the photo. I'm not going to get into the details here, but suffice to say that many people still support the contention, while astronomers are aghast at the claim. For one sincere request, I took the time to compare Shramek's photo with that by an astronomer about the same time and showed how the differential movement of stars and the comet made it obvious that the HM object was a background star. Despite this, some staunch supporters insisted that because the stars did not exactly line up when the two photos were superimposed, it was proof that the HM object was "real" and that astronomers were trying to suppress the "truth." What was most amazing to me was that people were getting worked up over such nitpicks but ignoring the basic principles of astronomy. While these arguments were ensuing, Comet Hale-Bopp was perfectly visible in the night sky to anyone with a telescope. No astronomer ever saw what Shramek saw. [Aside: However, at least a few Shramek supporters claimed they had seen the object, too, at the exact same time, with binoculars, and knew it was not a star! There were also some claims that a Japanese observatory had taken a photo of the comet last summer and that a "mysterious object" appeared on one image. Japanese astronomers pointed out that it was a CCD artefact, but that didn't stop supporters from claiming this was more proof of HM and of the astronomical community's cover-up of the truth.] {Aside II: As for claims that the HM was sending radio signals and that "prominent astronomers" had verified the claims, no such astronomer has ever come forward with this information. In fact, Colin Andrews (how the hell he got involved is beyond me) admitted that faxes about the HM radio signals from a prominent observatory had been hoaxed!} The reality is that if there really had been a companion object flying with the comet, it would have been visible to everyone on Earth. And, needless to say, it would be impossible to arrange a "cover-up" of a kind that would involve the amateur and professional astronomical communities. So, as we know, Hale-Bopp really did put on a great display. I watched it many times over the winter and early spring, pointing it out to neighbours who were curious and who had heard something about it on the news. In some ways, it could be said that it was a harbinger of doom as some fanatics claimed, especially since this spring saw the worst flooding in my area in 500 years, wiping out several towns including Grand Forks and almost Winnipeg. (I heard an amazing statistic the other day - that only 27 homes in all of the city of East Grand Forks were unscathed.) [For the record: yes, I was one of those evacuated, along with my book collection and UFO files. Thanks to all who helped me!] Israeli Martians Then there was the story that a small, slimy, gooey Martian had been captured in Israel. The details varied, but one version had it that a green creature had been found on a kibbutz and a police officer hit it with a shovel, killing it. When it was retrieved and placed in a pail for transport to "experts", it degraded into a pile of green goo. Later, it was claimed that tests at a university had shown the pail's contents was cow manure. Along with this story was the one which had another UFO "expert" who predicted the landing of a craft early in 1997. Even though spacey music blared to entice the aliens, no UFO appeared to the gathered crowd. Perhaps incidentally, Uri Geller was in Israel at that time, celebrating his 50th birthday. Alien Boogers I don't want to belabour the alien autopsy film any more than it already has been, but no further proof has emerged about it. One exception is an interview with the cameraman that was conducted by a Japanese TV crew. However, this interview is greatly disputed (as usual) and we are still faced with an absence of closure to the affair. Then there's the implants which have been surgically removed from abductees' bodies. Some "experts" are convinced that these are some kind of "tracking" or "tagging" devices, used by the aliens to monitor their victims' whereabouts. However, when one considers some details of the implants, there are some problems with this concept. First of all, the implants vary in size, shape and composition. While we certainly cannot try to outthink an advanced technology, the lack of consistency is puzzling. Another odd revelation is that each implant has been removed from a different part of abductees' bodies. Some are in shoulders, others in hands, and one intensely-reported case had the implant removed from a woman's big toe. (For some reason, the possibility that a metal ort could have become lodged in a person's toe through any means other than an alien abduction doesn't seem to be supported by UFO buffs, even though we all have stepped on things in the dark.) Some readers may know that Roy Bauer and I examined an "implant" removed from a Canadian abductee. The object was about one millimetre in diameter, very irregular and was attracted to a magnet. It looked like a metal shaving fragment such as that you might get while using a drill press. The abductee admitted he had used such equipment and many others that might have generated such pieces of metal. In short, we were not impressed. Emory Bored In September 1996, psychology professor Scott Lilienfield published an article in Emory Report about political science professor Courtney Brown. Lilienfield noted that Brown has embarrassed Emory University by claiming he has used his remote viewing abilities to travel to Mars, mind meld with aliens and learn that Adam and Eve were genetic engineers. "One hardly knows where to begin," Lilienfield says in his attempt to rationally discuss Brown's claims. The trouble is that any attempt to censure Brown for his claims and actions might constitute infringement of his academic freedom. Further, any attempt by the academic "establishment" might be construed as an attempt to oppress those who really know "the Truth." Of course, having tenure, Brown is untouchable. We can sympathize with the Emory administration who were bored and tired of Brown's absurdities. But what could they do? Lilienfield came up with the only possible solution: bury Brown's claims by a deluge of rhetoric denouncing him. Offering contradictory opinion doesn't infringe on his academic freedom. Lilienfield had even offered Brown the opportunity to be tested in his psychological laboratory, but Brown, naturally, refused. Apollo Moon Photo Hoax When the Fortean Times contacted me about writing a rebuttal to one of their articles, I had trouble believing it was even necessary. David Percy's article on the faking of the Apollo Moon landings is a fine example of exactly how weird Forteana can get. What is perhaps most interesting is the way in which his thesis has been embraced by so many people who agree with his contention that NASA fabricated the whole thing. Bob Shell, the photographic expert who was invited to "verify" the alien autopsy film, posted to the Internet a request for "astute photographic experts" to take a hard look at Percy's evidence. "Are we looking at a 27-year-old hoax?" he asks. "Sure looks like it." "I can think of no other explanation for the oddities," he adds. Shell clarified his position by explaining that he did not doubt astronauts really went to the Moon, but that "maybe their photos weren't good enough and NASA accordingly whipped up a batch in a studio somewhere." I was most amazed at the support from people who we must assume are not technologically naive and who are living in a scientific age. Why, I wondered, did so many people believe that NASA fake the Apollo landings? Percy's interpretations of shadows and reflections were completely at odds with what is known about photographic effects, and as expected, he took quite a a beating on the Internet. Yet, some people gave him some support, calling his questioning approach an attempt to discern the "truth." Varginha, Chupas, whatever ... Not to be outdone by the strangeness in North America are the stories emanating from the south. Almost everyone will have heard about the Varginha aliens by now. The gist is that a saucer crashed near this Brazilian locale and aliens were retrieved and taken immediately to a hospital. Several people came forward and insisted they had seen the creatures, which were described as hairy little fellas in need of some medical attention. There were plenty of rumours about military helicopters, official-looking visitors to the hospital and so forth. The possibility of a contemporary Roswell was greatly appealing. However, since then, investigation of the case has been met with denials, obtuse officials and wild claims that challenge the imagination. On the Internet, one UFO buff said that a Brazilian UFO "expert" had told him that the beings from Varginha "are in a university in Campinhas near Sao Paulo and that US people were on the scene from the beginning." Further, "the beings captured (4 beings, 3 alive and one was dead, shot by a military person) are more animals ... possibly servants to the Alphas or what we call the Greys." Other comments were that a saucer "with a hole in it and smoke coming from it" was seen crashing to Earth, but "the area of the crash is totally clean ... [because] these beings ejected before the crash." Also, it was speculated that "some UFO beings were protecting some area full of minerals." Although South American ufologists have tried to find more information about the Varginha creatures, it appears as though they have reached a dead end of some kind. Disinformation or Datinformation? Regardless of the story, it is fair to say that some very strange claims have been made during the past year. Further, it can be said that the claims themselves have been largely disputable and completely against all logic and reason. As amusing as these claims and stories are, the most important aspect is that people are *believing* them. And, with the incredible rumour-expansion capabilities of the Internet, the stories get bounced around the world with such speed that UFO buffs everywhere hear about them and spread them at unprecedented speed. Almost without exception, I first heard about these bizarre stories within the Internet Relay Chat (IRC), where the details of the Varginha aliens' skin and the exact dimensions of the Hale-Mary were lively being discussed by breathless believers. The worst part of this is that it takes a hundredfold effort to undo the damage done by such rumours within the UFO community. And even then, true adherents will not tolerate any naysayers. Recently, in one serious IRC discussion (they *do* take place), we came to an interesting conclusion of sorts, based on the observable evidence. Given that there is such a proliferation of nonsensical beliefs and stories and claims within the ufological community itself, and given that the proponents of such stories and claims are often "big name" ufologists or those defined as "experts," it is *as if* there really is a "disinformation campaign" in the works which is effectively undermining ufology. Evidence for this included examples such as Whitley Streiber publishing details of channelled information about the Hale-Bopp companion spaceship, and accepting without question the faxes from a major astronomical observatory supporting such claims. Why anyone would want to pose as such an astronomer and fax information to Streiber is an absurd concept in itself. The CIA and a Canadian Centennial Project in Alberta I'm about the farthest away from a conspiracy buff you can get, but a few things have recently given me pause to wonder. In 1967, the town of St. Paul, Alberta, decided to do something special as a centennial project honouring Canada's 100th birthday. Someone had the brilliant idea to build a "UFO Landing Platform" as a goodwill gesture to our extraterrestrial neighbours. The site would be designated as a "safe" area for aliens to land and make formal, peaceful contact with Earth. The site received some national attention when it was built, but over the years it fell into disrepair. No saucer ever landed on it, and it was starting to become a bit of an embarrassment to some local townspeople. But then came the recession. Someone on town council realized that with the growing interest in UFOs, perhaps it was time to cash in on the popularity of the subject. The town obtained the travelling CUFOS exhibit from John Timmerman when he decided to retire from his EBE chautauqua and concurrently built a UFO "museum" at the base of the platform. In effect, it was creating a unique tourist attraction. In addition to the exhibit, the town council installed a toll-free telephone line which allowed people to report their UFO sightings. The line was staffed by employees of the town with little or no experience or knowledge of UFOs. They took down witnesses' descriptions of UFOs, typed them up and posted a notice of the incident on public display in the museum. Visitors can browse recent cases while looking at the CUFOS display and also purchase t-shirts, keychains and baseball caps featuring images of aliens. In terms of marketing, it's a great gimmick. In terms of UFO research, the St. Paul museum is a source of firsthand UFO sighting reports, and staff have been most helpful in providing case data to researchers. Except for one minor thing ... The Las Vegas Connection The town of St. Paul does not have unlimited resources. It needed someone to underwrite the expense of the 800-number. They found their financier in Robert Bigelow, of Las Vegas, Nevada. Bigelow is described as a "successful real estate developer in Las Vegas", who owns many properties including the Mount Charleston Hotel. Allegedly a multi-millionaire, Bigelow has a keen interest in unusual phenomena. It was said on the net that: "Bigelow wants to gain some fame by spending his money on ET research that will accomplish something." In 1996, Bigelow bought a 480-acre ranch in the Uintah Basin in Nevada. His $200,000 investment was to allow the creation of a field laboratory to study UFO phenomena which have been plaguing the area for many years. One media source noted: "Bigelow has erected an observation building and moved in a pair of scientists and a veterinarian. He has someone on the property 24 hours a day, recording anything out of the ordinary. Officially, the research is being conducted by the National Institute for Discovery Science, which Bigelow formed last October. Among the big names in the institute's stable of scientists is John B. Alexander, former director of non-lethal weapons testing at Los Alamos National Laboratories in New Mexico." And, quoting Alexander: "Our approach is to do good, high-quality research using a standard scientific approach and do what we can to get hard data," Alexander said in a telephone interview from the institute's Las Vegas offices. "One of the missions of the institute is to make information widely available." According to Jim Moseley, Alexander has been described as a former head of the Los Alamos Nonlethal Weapons research, which included conventional means of incapacitating opposing armies and pesky civilian crowds without necessarily killing them, but also included "psiwar" techniques such as remote viewing. Alexander recently "retired" and moved to Las Vegas but still admits to continuing his nonlethal weapons connection through future conferences and his still-existing "NATO appointment." [12/5/95 "Saucer Smear"]. NIDS is supposedly involved in psychic research, remote viewing and the afterlife. Its members want to "understand the physics of flying saucers" and even build one! Furthermore, NIDS at least partly funds the "implant retrieval" research of Derrel Sims and Dr. Leir and *also* has been named as contributing funds for Budd Hopkins' infamous Linda Napolitano/Cortile abduction case investigation which generated the book WITNESSED. In short, it's involved in a lot of odd things. Bigelow is also associated with Linda Moulton Howe, the noted "expert" on cattle mutilations, crop circles and chupacapras. But here is the link to St. Paul, Alberta. Bigelow has agreed to fund the toll-free UFO hotline in Alberta as long as NIDS gets "first crack" at the "really good" tips they receive. In fact, Linda Howe has visited Alberta recently with Chad Deetken, another crop circle "expert", and the two are reportedly working on a "scientific study" of cattle mutilations in North America. Their book is supposedly due out soon. Howe is a regular contributor to the Art Bell radio program. Her frequent case updates have included conversations with many UFO/paranormal "experts", and she has a toll-free line for witnesses to report sightings as well. But Bell, as noted earlier, embraces many "off-the-wall" topics and often supports or hypes up preposterous claims such as the Hale-Bopp companion. The Common Thread or Threadbare? If you really wanted to follow all the links, you'd find connections to pretty well everyone else in "popular" ufology. Also involved in the Hale-Bopp fiasco is Major Ed Dames, president of PSI TECH, Incorporated, is the former Operations and Training Officer of the military remote viewing unit. He was apparently with the National Security Agency and was the head of a team at the Stanford Research Institute, funded by the US Army to develop "scientific remote viewing." As stated on his web page: "As a result of increasing turmoil and turnover in the ranks of top Army intelligence leadership during the late 1980's, "channelers" and psychic charlatans were recruited to co-mingle with the trained professionals in the unit. Worse yet, various politicians, desiring information about their political and personal futures, began to approach the project, turning it into a "three-ring circus." Rather than being forced to stand by and witness the disintegration of his unit's effectiveness and the loss of remote viewing technology, Major Dames retired from the U.S. Army, taking the original team's best and brightest with him to form [his own company]." Despite these lofty goals and altruistic sentiments, it was Dames who went on the Art Bell show to announce he was in direct contact with the aliens guiding the Hale-Bopp companion spaceship that was going to destroy the Earth. There are also threads to people such as Ingo Swann, another "remote viewer" with links to the military and CIA/NSA, and back to Dr. Courtney Brown himself. What's the Deal? Brown, Howe, Dames, Bigelow, Shramek, Hopkins ... They all are relatively well-educated individuals who know better than to accept or proliferate questionable claims or information. But to look at the litany of weirdness that has been promulgated through actions, we can look and wonder why and how they got involved. Unless ... Well, I can't (and won't) say it was my idea, but it does seem to make sense in its own way. I'll quote verbatim from what someone suggested on the net. Here goes: "Since scientifically-trained individuals and others trained in military strategy are involved in the "big" UFO cases, and since they are the ones who are on the public lecture circuits providing information about this populist ufology, and since such people should see through such obvious false claims and skewed logic ..... they are the prime candidates for any so-called "disinformation program." "Furthermore, such individuals are perfectly placed within ufology to exert influences over guillable UFO buffs." You have to admit, it's a persuasive argument for those looking for the ultimate conspiracy. Basically, everyone's involved. "We have seen the enemy, and they is us." Of course, there are other interpretations. One possibility is that within ufology, there is a trend for adherents to be loners, eccentrics and social outcasts. If so, then such individuals' social status (described at length in the classic paper titled "Status Inconsistency Theory") might be responsible for their slightly-skewed view of reality. Their misdirected energies could feed each others' ideas and perceptions and create a unified (but aberrant) version of the UFO phenomenon. In other words, it could be that such judgement errors are simply due to the fact that ufologists are *human*. (With the exception of those who insist they are "Star Children" or "walk-ins.") Off on a Comet Unfortunately, I do have to mention Heaven's Gate in some way. Ufology simply cannot sweep this incident under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. While I'm sad that some people had to die for this, it's not like we didn't have any warning. I followed the career of Bo and Peep from the 70s until they disappeared in the 80s, and even back then I was concerned about their control over adherents. When Balch and Taylor infiltrated the group and wrote about it in psychology journals, I figured that certainly *someone* in the scientific community would get concerned. Even when Balch and Taylor noted that some followers disappeared and were never heard from again, it should have triggered a reaction from authorities. But, Applewhite and Nettles were just considered part of the lunatic fringe, and therefore not worth bothering about. From a viewpoint within ufology, Bo and Peep represented an extreme faction, admittedly, but were not that far removed from contactees in their approach and story. The danger signs of contactee groups are usually ignored as well, and this should be a warning bell for sociologists to pay more attention. One contactee with whom I became acquainted told the story of a "landing site" left behind by an alien probe ship. She held religious ceremonies and pilgrimages at the site, declaring it a holy shrine. After several weeks of this, some local townspeople decided that enough was enough and tried to drive a bulldozer across the site in order to wipe it out. The "true believers" laid in front of it, of course, and the attempt was thwarted. However, the next day, the driver of the bulldozer met with a terrible accident and was found drowned in a nearby lake, with several bones broken. The contactee guardedly informed me: "See what happens when you interfere with the wishes of the aliens?" Heaven's Gate was a tragedy in the sense that people took their own lives (although some were murdered, as we now know) because of false information. There was no spaceship, no companion and no terrible plague. But we must recognize that Millennial Fever is beginning to hit. Around the globe, believers are starting to really get worked up about a chronological milestone that doesn't even exist in half the world's cultures. Why? Because their spiritual leaders tell them so. In an excellent series of articles in the Fortean Times, the scale and scope of the Heaven's Gate affair is eloquently displayed. In Canada, for example, I already knew about the Solar Temple mass suicides which had been occurring for the past several years. The most recent apparently took place about the same time as the more newsworthy ones in San Diego. Mass suicides in the name of spiritual belief in a quickened progress towards the afterlife have taken place throughout history. It seems odd, though, that the suicides were to assist reincarnation on spaceships near comets, or in the case of the Solar Temple, on another planet. Whatever happened to Heaven as a destination? After all, wasn't the group called Heaven's Gate? Somehow, I'd prefer clouds and harps and Pearly Gates rather than an interstellar cargo ship or a hot planet orbiting Sirius A. What's even *more* of concern is that the signs are there that Millennial Fever will only increase as we get closer to 2000 (or 2001 for the nitpickers). And, in terms of cults, we only need to look at current ufology to find some candidates. There are a host of self-styled "experts" within the UFO community who hold many ardent UFO buffs in the palms of their hands, despite their making absurd and patently foolish and unprovable claims without any calls for verification. Maybe Phil Klass was a few years too soon when he subtitled his book: "A Dangerous Game." Notes from the 1996 Canadian UFO Report This year, I received extraordinary cooperation from many Canadian UFO researchers and investigators. For the most part, it seems that the most active investigations are by people and groups not associated with the "major" UFO organizations. Why this is so, I am not certain, but it is interesting that I generally received case data from people formerly with major UFO organizations, but not generally from provincial reps of the big UFO orgs themselves. At any rate, I thank everyone who contributed for their open sharing of information; it is through their efforts that some understanding of the nature of the UFO phenomenon is being realized. For those who are interested, the entire report is available online at several Web sites, including Contact: http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~mikem/canada.htm (I know there are others, but I can't find them right now!) The 1996 analysis is also described in detail in the latest issue of the International UFO Reporter, published by CUFOS: http://www.cufos.org/index.html I've had many positive comments about the annual work we do in Canada, and many people wish that such a report could be done in the USA. I think it's unfortunate that there isn't more work on what I would call "basic" ufology - the investigation, collection and analysis of UFO reports. I mean, this is what is at the *core* of the UFO phenomenon: the actual sightings - and if ufologists don't take the time to carefully look at the data, how can they make any judgement about peripheral effects and theories? This was driven home when I gathered the entire UFOROM gang together for a meeting at which all the "unknowns" from 1996 were examined in detail. After an hour or two of slogging through copies of the case data, the effort was summed-up by one member who said: "If this is what we talk about as the *best* sighting information, no wonder we don't have any answers yet." I quote from the 1996 report: "In order to gain a greater understanding of cases classified as Unknown, UFOROM members and associates held a special meeting to study and discuss these reports. Available information about each of the 42 cases originally listed as Unknown was discussed in detail and the cases re-assessed. Original classifications of Strangeness and Reliability were also re-examined for each case. Through this process, the identification of only 13 higher-reliability and higher-strangeness cases was made. This re-evaluation therefore left only 5% of the total number of 1996 cases as "good" unknowns. "It was the consensus of the group that this process was most revealing in that a better appreciation of the difficulties in using UFO data was gained. Many reports were good as "stories" but seemed to have possible or probable explanations. Some witnesses' descriptions were deemed less than accurate and a significant fraction of cases appeared to need more investigation. "In short, the exercise showed that the analysis of UFO reports is a very tricky procedure, relying heavily upon mere text of subjective estimates and interpretations of witnesses' less-than-accurate observations. Members of the group recommended that accounts of UFO sightings should not be taken at face value and that caution be used in interpreting what was "really" seen." What I find most interesting with regards to UFO statistics is that there still appears to be a profound lack of understanding of UFO sightings, even among "expert" ufologists. When I pointed out in Updates that most UFO sightings are explained as stars, planes and other stuff, I was met with disdain from some prominent researchers who insisted that just because a UFO was seen near an airport with coloured flashing lights and a regular direction of flight does *not* indicate it likely was an airplane. Similarly, to some people, a starlike UFO which is almost stationary but sinks slowly to the western horizon over an observation period of several hours is *not* necessarily a star or planet. I have no quibble about the semantics, but if I was faced with 90% of all UFO reports having descriptions similar to these two examples, I'd kind of get the idea that most UFOs were not that mysterious. Well, then, what did we find? I quote from the report again: "UFOs were reported at a rate of about 21 per month across all of Canada in 1996. Throughout the past eight years, the rate has been approximately 19 per month. "UFO witnesses range from farmhands to airline pilots and from teachers to police officers. Witnesses represent all age groups and racial origin. What is being observed? In most cases, only ordinary objects. However, this begs a question. If people are reporting things that can be explained, then the objects they observed were "really" there. Were the objects we can't identify "really" there as well? If so, what were they?" And, as for the numbers: "The number of UFO reports made in Canada has increased slightly during the past eight years. There now are approximately 190 cases of unidentified flying objects reported each year, up slightly from previous years' calculations." "About 13% of all UFO reports are unexplained. This percentage of unknowns falls to about 5% when only higher-quality cases are considered." What does this tell us? Well, the UFO phenomenon hasn't gone away, much to the chagrin of those who thought it was just a "fad." After 50 years, the UFO phenomenon hasn't progressed all that much, I suppose, and James Oberg may be vindicated to some extent. (He won a Cutty Sark writing competition many years ago by arguing that ufology has gone nowhere since its inception.) Contactees are back from the 1950s, except now they are abductees. Scully's Dr. "Gee" has been reincarnated as any number of sideshow ufologists who claim expertise in alien technology and possess much more mysterious "debris" (although any attempts to get more information from their chemists about these scientific details are thwarted at every turn). Fuzzy black and white photos of saucers have now become fuzzy videos of spotlighted pickup trucks billed as alien landings and latex EBEs are autopsied while mysterious cameramen refuse comment. It's all rather silly, really, and the circus at Roswell for the 50th anniversary pretty well summed it all up. From the "Crash and Burn Parade" to wedding dresses modelled by grey mannequins to UFO-themed techno-rave non-events to MIB kewpie dolls .... I can only shudder to think what next crisis might befall ufology ... AINT Misbehavin' I'd like to thank all those who replied concerning the publication of AINT, the theory I and Vladimir Simosko proposed. AINT (Alien INcompetency Theory) attempted to explain the bizarre nature of UFO sightings and the associated weirdness in ufology by asserting that aliens themselves were incompetent, with various complications. Although AINT was phenomenally well-received, I did receive several snail- and e-mail letters lambbasteing me for daring to suggest aliens were incompetent. It was implied that it was our inadequacy as scientists that prevented us from understanding the true nature of the alien agenda. What was most surprising, perhaps, was that these writers were obviously serious in their attacks. Fortunately, most replies were as the following: "Chris, An utterly beautiful scientific theory. Its ability to predict alleged UFO phenomena is outstanding, and I for one cannot wait for further research into various other aspects of the UFO field. Several come to mind: 1) The obvious alien fascination with abductee genitalia and the recent mysterious disappearance of a shipment of Raquel Darrien faux-vaginas. 2) Cattle mutilations. Is the littering of the prairies with rotting bovine corpses indicative of the sadistic nature of "grey" aliens "out for a good time," or the incompetence of alien butchers? 3) The statistically significant relationship between network advertising revenues and the increasing appearance of *both* UFO sightings and television programs. One can easily imagine this is a scheme by the aliens to raise capital to repair their ever-crashing ships so they can go home. I mention this because it appears contradictory to your thesis of alien incompetence. Evidence points to people very willing to spend big money of UFO paraphrenalia." Whereas another reader wrote: "Sorry, I think the opposite is far more likely: What they are up to is intended to confuse and mystify us deliberately. They are introducing themselves slowly into our consciousness, turning up the volume a little every year. They make it just strange enough that the debunkers can fairly easily heap ridicule if they wish, yet just real enough that the phenomena can't be ignored. "Besides, why *should* what they do make sense to us? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that they are to us as we are to our pets or to our own small children? It is only our arrogance and limited perspective that would allow us to assume that their actions should make sense to us. "Perhaps they just don't care that much, and sometimes make mistakes. Or maybe they are deliberately acting in a confusing way to get us to think." And from another: "Incompetence, which as you point out seems to be a hallmark of alien *intelligence* as much as our own, may just be another example of entropy. After all, it's an old universe, and things have had plenty of time to come unglued. Why would we expect higher intelligence to be uniquely organized when stars blow up, species regularly go extinct, and comets and other debris trash perfectly good planets? Terminal clumsiness may be the fifth force ... "I teach a course in critical thinking at UColo Boulder. The other day one of my students told me she'd heard that the "government" had an alien in captivity in Colorado Springs. Given that abductees tell us that aliens can materialize anywhere they want, float folks through walls or out of 10-story apartments, freeze mechanical devices, and alter our memories (incompetently, of course), it seems a little odd that they couldn't spring their guy out of a tin-pot jail on a backwoods primitive planet like ours. Perhaps he likes the food, or maybe he's fallen in love with a federal agent." Excellent point! Finally, I must include one last observation: "There is an alternative to the aliens being government workers of some sort. Although having had some contact with the Trust Territory Government of the Mariannas, I can see the comparison you are drawing. Every winter, the State of Florida is overrun by seasoned citizens. These are people who are legally blind, mentally incompetent and overwise infirm. Yet, they are allowed to drive cars and create mayhem on the highways of Florida. This is with the blessings of the Florida government. I believe it has something to do with money. "Perhaps the subject aliens are retired and come here for the weather? Another excellent point you bring up is the biological experimentation. Why are they doing the same experiments today that they were doing forty years ago? "Perhaps the answer is, they are not biological experiments. They are some sort of religious ritual. We will keep doing this until we get it correct, and then the Great Kahuna will come and bless us. That sort of thing." I thank all my respondents for their comments, rational and otherwise. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Swamp Gas Journal is copyright (c) 1997 by Chris A. Rutkowski. Mail correspondence to: Box 1918, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 3R2 Email correspondence to: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca The Swamp Gas Journal, UFOROM and NAICCR are not affiliated with the University of Manitoba, and don't represent its ideas, opinions, etc. (Come to think of it, no one here has noticed me yet.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Swamp Gas Journal, Special Issue 5, Summer 1997 From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:32:02 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:11:18 -0400 Subject: Swamp Gas Journal, Special Issue 5, Summer 1997 Special Issue The Swamp Gas Journal ISSN 0707-7106 Number 5 Summer 1997 Special Issue #5 Fish Stories, From the Horse's Mouth and Cults: What I'm working on during the summer ... As a special bonus for devoted readers of the SGJ, I am presenting some recent stories concerning research and correspondence from the past few months. Maybe this will make up for the lateness of the main journal ... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A Whale of Tale: July 11, 1997 It was after 11:00 pm and I was just settling into bed to watch the last quarter of a football game. The phone rang and I had the fleeting thought to let the machine take it. But something told me to answer this one. It was my friend S_, who used to work with a TV station and with whom I had written and produced a show about lake monsters in Manitoba. S_ apologized for calling so late, but then told me he had heard such a fantastic story he felt I should know about it immediately. He said that an hour earlier, he had received a phone call from B_, a sport fisherman whom we had interviewed about his own Manipogo sighting of several years ago. B_ told S_ that he had received a call tonight from a friend named A_. A_ said that earlier today, someone named R_ on the Sandy Bay Reserve had shot and killed a 'giant snake' near Lake Manitoba. He said that many others had seen this creature, and that its body was now being preserved and awaiting examination by authorities. S_ was certain that there was something to this story and that B_ would not be making this up. The story was consistent with other claims of encounters with a large, snake-like creature called Manipogo that is thought to inhabit the lake. I thanked S_ for the tip and then called the Sandy Bay RCMP office right away. I spoke with a Constable A_ who told me he had "heard the rumours" but didn't know any details about the incident. He said he would be checking with another detachment in the morning and would have more information then. I then called a friend at a radio station newsroom in the hope that he had heard of this story already. He hadn't, but quickly did a live interview with me about what I had heard so far. I called my associates Brian and Dave in Brandon, somewhat closer to Sandy Bay. They are avid Fortean investigators, and I rely on them to help investigate cases in Western Manitoba. I told them the story. They were very appreciative of the info and said they would investigate and call me back the next day. It was a nice story, but was there anything to it? I went to bed, with a funny feeling that there was more to the tale than what I knew. The problem was that there really is a large creature that may be inhabiting the lake, namely a giant sturgeon. Although rare, these natural monsters can grow to 15 feet or more and some had been recorded and caught in Manitoba. My guess was that this was what had been found, and, although it wasn't really mysterious, was certainly unusual enough to warrant an investigation. In the morning, I called the Sandy Bay RCMP and spoke with another officer who said she knew about the story but that the duty sergeant was out at the time. It seems that a tremendous thunderstorm was hitting the area and was keeping the police busy with other problems, although they were planned to go out to the lake to investigate the shoreline for any sign of a monster. I then called B_ and spoke with him. He told me the entire story as he heard it from A_. Supposedly, R_ had been swathing hay on his lakeshore property near a swamp when he saw a large, snake-like creature near the shore. He quickly dashed to his truck for his rifle and shot the creature as it was rearing up out of the water. Roulette then dragged the monster's body out of the water and ran to notify others of his find. According to A_, "half the town" came out to view the creature and some took photographs with it. But the story gets better. As the tale goes, RCMP were called and came out within a short time. They examined the carcass and called for a large, flatbed truck transport. Villagers watched as the creature's body was loaded onto the trailer and covered with a tarpaulin. As described to A_, the creature was 50 feet in length, with the diameter of a barrel and "a head like a horse." B_ said that he and A_ went out at 1:30 am that morning to see if they could intercept the transport on its journey southward to whatever destination it was heading for. They said they saw a West way trailer leave the reserve and go south along the main access road about that time. Wanting to get closer to the story, I asked B_ for A_'s phone number. This took a while because the thunderstorm kept knocking out the phone line, requiring me to call back several times. I then called the Sandy Bay Band Office, and asked if anyone there had heard of the story. The person who answered said she had, but that no one knew who Randy Roulette was. She said the band office had been trying to get details but had been unsuccessful. Next, I called A_ at his work, and he told me exactly the same story as B_ had related. He was amazed that the RCMP knew nothing about the incident, because he had spoken with some residents who had seen the creature on the ground. Furthermore, he could not believe that the tribal office didn't know anything about it because many officials there had been present to view the monster's body. A_ told me that R_ was difficult to reach because he didn't have a telephone, but that he knew where his property was located. I asked him if he knew the names of any others who had seen the creature, and he gave me the name and number of K_. I phoned the number and waited while the person who answered called K_ to the phone. The sound of a baby crying grew louder and soon K_ came on the line, obviously wrestling with a cranky youngster. K_ admitted he had seen the long, black body of "something" loaded onto a truck. He affirmed that many people were present including police and that someone was taking photographs. He seemed honest and straightforward about what he had seen. As I hung up the phone, I heard a radio news broadcast from the station I had called last night. They had been trying to follow up on the story, too, with no luck, and a reporter was complaining that he had been unable to locate a witness. I quickly called the station and told them I had just spoken with an eyewitness. I gave them the phone number and they thanked me and hung up. I continued to listen to the radio and was shocked to hear after a few minutes that they had reached a witness but he "was drunk and wasn't in any condition to talk" with them! With stark disbelief, I called the station back in a mad panic. That reporter told me she had called the number and that, although K_ admitted he had seen the creature's body and that someone had indeed taken photos, he had "acted weird" and didn't want to be interviewed. The reporter agreed that perhaps K_ wasn't drunk, but that it was her impression that something odd was going on because he didn't want to talk with her! I got off the phone and tried to assess the information. Had something happened, or not? I continued to listen to the radio and soon heard a live interview with Sergeant W_ of the Sandy Bay detachment. He said that he and his officers had just returned from braving the elements and could not find any sign of a carcass on the lakeshore. He said that he had been unable to locate anyone who had seen the beast and that he compared the story to that of a "six foot bird" which had been reported six weeks ago in the area. The radio announcer had a good laugh with the sergeant, and dismissed the case. That effectively killed the story, for the time being. I decided to clear my head and go for lunch. But when I got back, things had become more complicated. There was a message from W_ on my voicemail. I returned his call and he told me that yes, he was unable to verify any of the story. He says he even had spoken with R_, who had told him he had been swathing his grass along the lake but had not shot any creature or seen anything unusual. I asked W_ if he had spoken with K_ and he said he had not. I asked W_ why people would start such a rumour. Were they in the habit of lying? Surprisingly, W_ said, yes, people in the area "like to tell stories and sometimes they put themselves in the stories, too." I then mentioned to W_ that I had heard him on the radio, and noted his remark about the "six-foot-bird" in the context of tall tales. He laughed, but noted, "Well, of course, that was true." I blinked. "What?" I asked. W_ explained that a month or two ago, residents in the area had reported seeing a giant birdlike creature. The RCMP had dismissed the stories until it was caught. It was an emu. Unbeknownst to the general population, including the RCMP, a farmer had purchased a number of these large birds and was raising them commercially. Sure enough, one had escaped. Therefore, the tall tale which was used to help dismiss the lake monster story was true itself! I got off the phone with W_, still a bit confused. Was there any truth to the story at all? Why would no one talk openly about their observation of the monster, and how did the truck transport figure into all this? Then, I got a call from Brian and Dave in Brandon. They were using their cellular phone and were in their truck on the way to Sandy Bay. They said they had spoken with W_ and were going to meet him there. "But why," I asked them. "He said there was nothing to the case." A shocked silence answered me. "Are you sure?" came the reply. "We just talked with W_ and he told us that he knew for a fact that the carcass was definitely put aboard a transport truck. He's even offered to introduce us to the people who saw it." Amazed, I asked them to call me as soon as they knew more. Could this case get any weirder and have more twists? Well, no. Brian called me from Sandy Bay about 4 pm. He said they had spoken with RCMP and many of the so-called witnesses and had come to a conclusion. There had been no monster. What had happened, in their view, was that there *had* been a major drinking party along the lakeshore last night, and people got a little drunk. It seems that there *had* been some stories circulating during the past few weeks that someone had in fact seen Manipogo, but wasn't talking. This didn't stop the partiers from jokingly starting their story about shooting and killing the monster. The truck and the cover-up was added as a nice touch. I can imagine that K_ told me he had seen the monster beacuse he figured the story was safe to tell, but when the media started calling, he backed off. And when the RCMP came calling, he had to 'fess up. I guess the real culprit in this instance was the person who told A_'s sister about the monster. If she hadn't told A_ about it, he wouldn't have called B_, who believes strongly in the existence of the creature and who has a solid reputation. We would never have heard anything about it. Brian and Dave are owed a great deal for dashing out to investigate the case. If it weren't for them, we'd still be wondering about it at this point. They're a little downhearted, apparently, because the case turned out to be a dud, but I look at it a bit differently. They *succeeded* at an investigation and *solved* a case. That's what investigators are supposed to do, right? Of course, a few things still are left hanging. Why did the RCMP tell Dave and Brian that the case was legit? And what about the story that someone really did see a lake monster earlier this month? The Monster of Lake Manitoba lives on ... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Next, I present some correspondence I received from a person who had some personal experience in dealing with American Cold-War paranoia and also how UFOs were *really* viewed within the upper echelons: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ View from the inside: One American's examination of early US UFO docs by I.M. Anon [Note: In the fine tradition of other UFO "experts," I am following their lead and *not* exposing the identity of the American "insider" who responded to my request and e-mailed me his story. You know how it is.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Rutkowski has asked for documentation of my account of "how I got interested in UFO's" for his files and possible publication, which I am happy to provide on the condition anonymity is preserved until my demise! As a lifelong student of astronomy and fan of aerospace development and Science Fiction, I was aware of "flying saucers" even as a child in the early 1950's, but was unable to take the then-widely-circulating rumors of "crashed saucers" complete with bodies of aliens, or George Adamski, both topics being widely discussed on playgrounds in those years, very seriously at the time. It did occur to me to wonder why news broadcasts such as the Flatwoods monster/sighting would appear intriguingly in the media and then vanish without follow-up. My only "sighting" was in the summer of 1957, just before Sputnik: a flashing electric-blue light, apparently very high, moving silently & quickly across the night sky in long straight lines & making instant more-than-90-degree turns without pause or curves. It just suddenly started, danced thru the "summer triangle" making several of those sharp turns without slacking speed or varying intensity, and vanished. Aside from being puzzled by this classic "nocturnal light" sighting, I've never felt I'd ever seen a "real" UFO & in fact never associated this with a "flying saucer" until reading more about it much later. In 1965, interest was stimulated by a "mystical-type" woman friend (the wife of a graduate student at the University I was then attending and a neighbor in their "married Students' housing") who announced one night that "the word was out" that the aliens were going to turn off the power over a wide area of the USA to convince the government to cooperate with their plans. We laughingly asked what those plans were, and she actually said essentially that the aliens were offering bits of technology in exchange for letting them observe & experiment secretly, but gradually letting more information out over the next 30 or 40 years thru movies, advertising, TV shows etc. before revealing themselves fully. She got a good laugh that lasted until the Northeast power blackout that fall, with the associated rumors of UFO's over the Niagra power stations as it happened. Unfortunately the couple had moved and I couldn't ask her how she'd known, or what else she knew! This stimulated further reading, and when the Condon Report was issued I pounced on it avidly; I felt confused and betrayed by the conflict between the contents and conclusions; and decided something very weird was indeed occurring. By then I was working as a professional librarian in a NASA think-tank with a VERY large aerospace library cleared through "Secret: Restricted Data" and went into that level of information to see if there was anything. There was indeed, even on that low level, evidence that the government was blatantly lying about its disinterest: I quickly found a classified USAF document advising pilots what to do WHEN (not "if") they encountered a UFO, with such advice as "DO NOT SHOOT!!", "Use gun-cameras" and even advice on what to do if their electrical system cut out, "as often occurs". Of course this made me wonder what was also available at higher security classifications, but our facility had no access to that data. So, naturally, since then I have never doubted there is a government cover-up, that their claim to have no interest etc. was phony, and (in retrospect) began wondering about things like those rumors of crashed saucers & bodies we'd been discussing on school playgrounds in the early '50's. Consequently, the emergence of the Roswell stories was hardly a surprise, except for the part about people asking how such a "secret" could be kept so long. Could something widely discussed by gradeschool kids on playgrounds be considered a secret? Well, it's over 30 years since our friend described essentially what's been happening since: she was either a prophetess, or really did get inside information somehow, since everything to do with the phenomenon seems to confirm her description. I'd like to live long enough to see if the rest of it occurs (open contact after all the "preparation"), but cheerfully admit that if the US Government openly admits there is contact with aliens, UFO's are real, etc. I'd have to begin to doubt: since everything else seems to have been lies, how could one believe them even if the President appears in a news conference with a Grey? Could THAT psychological orientation be one of "their" goals? Who's in charge here anyway? Can anyone ever have any realistic idea of what's really going on or why? How did that woman know that stuff? Well, it's interesting, anyway! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Part 2: The TOP SECRET Librarian: American security in the stacks by I.M. Anon [This is the second document e-mailed to me by an American researcher who wishes to remain anonymous. And so it goes.] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Rutkowski has requested an account of my experiences as a professional librarian dealing with US Government "classified" information in the 1960's for his files and possible publication. On the condition I remain anonymous, I am willing to describe some of the adventures and absurdities that were associated with this. I was a professional librarian in a NASA "think-tank" for several years handling information classified through "Secret: Restricted Data" but as everything happened 30 or so years ago and therefore almost everything I ever saw should have been de-classified by now (not to mention I will not be discussing any specific documents) I feel confident there is no harm in describing a few associated adventures, as Mr. Rutkowski feels this will add insight into some of the concerns about classified data in the UFO-Research community, especially as my experiences often are at variance with other stories about classified information. As we never discussed such things, I had no idea everyone else wasn't doing it the same way until I read others' stories about classified documents in the UFO literature and noticed discrepancies. What does THAT indicate? The process of getting cleared even to the level needed for the facility in which I worked, involved a "security check" including fingerprinting, interviewing old neighbors, etc. As a naive and innocent person with no criminal or communist connections, never having been out of the country in any of the controversial places around the planet, etc. there was no problem with this, although having a foreign-sounding name evidently caused some concern even though my grandparents were US citizens even before WWI. This became clear when a man identifying himself as an FBI agent (even showing credentials) began showing up at regular intervals, several times a year, to interview me. This man looked so much like the "Mr. Glad Bags" fellow in the commercials (tall, well-built and dressed, wavy grey hair and toothpaste-ad teeth etc. and even talking like him) that it was hard to resist asking if he was any relation or was moonlighting, although I managed, due to paranoia over causing offence and becoming therefore a suspicious fellow! After all, it appeared I was already "suspicious" due to my name, since the interviews would consist of his asking if I knew that a table-tennis team or folk-group or poet or whatever from the area of my ancestors' origin, had been visiting a neighboring city. In every case, having no personal interest in such things, I was able to honestly say "No!" but he would always follow up with further questions on whether any had tried to contact me, if I'd visited with any of them, etc. Rather than becoming annoyed, I was amused, even when he showed up at my apartment one day, hovered at the door until I invited him in, and went thru the same routine yet again. That, however, began to make me feel a bit paranoid, I confess: in the library was one thing; at home quite another! Of course, as a librarian in a technical library but having no technical training, I was able to find documents as needed without understanding what they were about, except that for various reasons many were classified at various levels as "security information". This material was kept in a vast vault and as it became obsolete or unnecessary, had to be burned in a kiln and the ashes well-stirred. Security Officers assigned to the company were always about, would accompany me to the document-burning "parties" etc. There was little sense of humor about it, and my requests to toast marshmallows etc. were met with frowns. The company for which I worked often generated such documents, and their greatest concern was to avoid anything that would result in any sort of classification in their research reports, as it would limit their distribution. A few times, a document they generated would inadvertently be judged "classified" at some level and also had to be destroyed, although I recall one occasion in which the reason was a reference to a specific component, innocuous in itself, being mentioned in that context. The solution was to carefully snip out, with scissors, each occurrence of that word from the document, and carefully burn those snippets. This "sanitized" that document and enabled it to become "unclassified"; note that magic-marker-ing it out of legibility was considered insufficient. The only time we ever magic-markered out anything was when a document was declassified and the original security markings were then crossed out thoroughly: very tedious as they were all marked at the top and bottom of every page, front & back, even if blank (although the blank page would also state "This page is blank.") In almost all cases the declassified documents were also then burned. I never understood why we crossed out the markings of declassified documents before burning, while leaving the markings on those still classified when burning them! Only rarely were any declassified documents kept. (Obviously, they were burned instead of just being thrown away, because they didn't want the garbage collectors to see what classified data had been around previously.) We never kept any such documents not actually still needed. The most absurd adventure involved a researcher who was also a foreign national (from a VERY neutral country, but not a US citizen). His own projects, of course, were not classified & he was officially not to be informed about any classified work or to see any classified documents. Imagine the consternation when he generated a report later declared to be classified! He was then not allowed to supervise his own work or to see his own notes! He continued to direct his project, however, by telling his assistants what to get, what to do, etc. and dictating his notes and reports, which were then classified and locked away. Although everyone took it all very seriously & behaved most officiously it was clear opportunities for "leaks" etc. were not eliminated; but after all, we were only classified to "Secret: Restricted Data" which was not a very high level at all. Everyone knew there were much higher classifications that were not even widely known to exist, but as we had no access, such levels were almost never even mentioned. Occasionally, some researcher would mutter about how we should have a higher facility clearance to facilitate our work, since they clearly felt they had a "need to know" beyond their level, but this was always denied. I was glad to get out of that business. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Finally, a paper I prepared originally in the 80s, but was asked to update it in 1997 after the Heaven's Gate incident. It's my view on UFO and alien cults. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >From Heaven Above: Saved by the Aliens by Chris Rutkowski Of the many different cores around which a cult can form, possibly the most curious is the phenomenon of UFOs. Fanatical UFO belief is basically an anti-science movement. It rejects the scientific evaluation and rational explanation for UFOs in favor of a more mystical and religious view. It becomes cult-like when adherents become closed to any interpretation of UFOs as conventional phenomena. Further, fanatical UFO believers often alienate themselves from other UFO buffs, who are interested in a search for "the truth" but do not "know" the truth as fanatical followers claim. There are two basic forms of such fanatical groups: 1) spiritual/religious UFO cults; and 2) obsessive UFO belief cults. The spiritual UFO cults embrace omnipotent beings known often as the "Space Brothers," closely akin to deities. They are always much more advanced that humans, and their levels of advancement are such that they almost always have apparently magical or mystical powers, often including ESP and other psychic abilities. In some cases, they are also more "spiritually-attuned" than us. They are extraterrestrial in the same sense that God is "not of this world," and come from distant planets. Each sub-cult names a different planet of origin for their alien brothers and sisters, including Clarion, Korendar and Zanthar. In UFO cult mythology, for example, Clarion is said to exist "on the other side of the Sun." Some groups select planets within our Solar system as their aliens' homes, including Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and Venus, although some have located their aliens on or inside the Earth. The belief-based cults usually have no spiritual relationship with the Space Brothers, but simply believe that extraterrestrials are visiting Earth. They reject scientists' explanations of UFOs, and often insist that there is some sort of grand cover-up of the knowledge that aliens are among us. One of the early, well-known spiritual UFO cults was the Aetherius Society, founded in Britain by George King in March 1954. One day, King said that he heard a voice from heaven, telling him: "Prepare yourself; you are to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament." Eight days later, King said a man in white robes walked through a door into his room and delivered the aliens' message that mankind is spiritually unwell. King was advised he was to become the terrestrial representative of the Interplanetary Parliament, which meets regularly on Saturn. He was told to prepare himself for his important duties by practising yoga and leading a healthier lifestyle. A few months later, King was contacted again, this time by the aliens' leader, Master Aetherius. Aetherius was from Venus, where an advanced civilization rules the Solar system. King's body was taken over and controlled by Aetherius, who began proselytizing as he was the "primary terrestrial channel." His mission was, simply, to "alert the world." King attracted a considerable number of followers. His meetings usually took the form of a public channelling display. King went into a trance and began speaking as a "lesser agent," telling of upcoming natural disasters as well as happier occasions such as sightings and landings of flying saucers. Then, Aetherius himself would get channelled, and inform the gathered crowd about esoteric teachings, describing "cosmic energies" and the need for more "positive ions" in the world. Occasionally, another entity would get channelled, including such individuals as Jesus Christ. Jesus explained that He had been born on Venus and had come to Earth in a flying saucer which was disguised as the Star of Bethlehem. Jesus is now on Mars, where He continues His teachings. Channelled, Jesus recited from the New Testament and led the group in prayer. King commended that his followers needed to "charge" mountains in order to prevent cataclysms. He would often lead groups into various mountainous regions where they would pray in circles, thus charging "energy batteries" which could be used by the aliens to prevent disasters. Another UFO cult leader was George Adamski. His mission on Earth began on November 20th, 1952, at 12:30 p.m., near the town of Parker in the California desert, when he and some friends saw a UFO apparently land nearby. He instructed his friends to remain with their car while he went to investigate. Adamski said that he came face to face with a space being who had human features and long, light-colored, shoulder-length hair. (Later, such aliens were called blondes.') Communicating in sign language, Adamski learned that the visitor was from Venus. Later, he was told that the Space Brothers were very displeased with human behavior and had enlisted Adamski to carry their message of peace and goodwill to all mankind. Adamski published three books describing his encounters with the aliens and their messages. They each were financial successes, allowing him to travel widely and attract a huge following. He referred to himself as Professor George Adamski,' and claimed that he lived and worked at Mount Palomar Observatory. In reality, he ran a small cafeteria halfway up the mountain road leading to the astronomical institution. He did have a small portable telescope, through which he took several photographs of aliens and their spaceships hovering nearby, all of which were out of focus or of dubious heritage. One widely-published photograph, showing a closeup of a flying saucer with portholes and ball-like objects underneath, has been dismissed by skeptics as the top part of a vacuum clear, a bottle washer or a chicken brooder. Adamski's followers formed groups in many cities around the world, including Canada. Adamski died in 1965, but his groups continued meeting as recently as the late 1970s. George Van Tassel founded the "College of Universal Wisdom" in 1953. Van Tassel is best known as the organizer of the Giant Rock Flying Saucer Convention, which was held annually for nearly two decades on a desert airfield near Giant Rock, California. The night of August 24, 1953, Van Tassel was sleeping with his wife and was woke up at about 2:00 a.m. to find a man standing at the foot of his bed. The human-appearing entity said that his name was "Sol-ganda" and insisted that Van Tassel come with him aboard his spaceship. Van Tassel noted that his wife was in a deep sleep which Sol-ganda said was because of a "spell." Outside, Van Tassel saw a bell-shaped craft that was powered by an "antigravity beam." Van Tassel didn't receive any direct message from his alien contact, but simply was shown things which he interpreted as directions and information to pass on to others. For example, during one of his later contacts, he was visually shown the true history" of the human race, as observed by aliens. Typically, Van Tassel would go into a trance at a meeting and channel information from Sol-ganda or other aliens. Van Tassel was often attacked by skeptics, and one of the most memorable incidents was the action of a lawyer who set out to show that Van Tassel's stories were hoaxes. He sent Van Tassel faked UFO photos, which Van Tassel quickly adopted as true and proof of his own experiences. However, when both the lawyer and Van Tassel appeared together on a popular UFO-related radio talk show, the lawyer revealed the photos as his fakes. Despite such damaging evidence, Van Tassel remained popular and his Giant Rock convention attracted many thousands of devotees and contactees annually. Near the convention site, he built the Integratron, a wooden dome-shaped temple, from plans he said were supplied by the Space Brothers and similar to Solomon's Temple from the Old Testament. The Integratron was designed for rejuvenation' of the human body, through omni-beams' directed from above. In September of 1944, Amazing Stories magazine editor Ray Palmer received a letter from Richard Shaver. Shaver detailed how he had learned of an "ancient alphabet" from a lost race that had once thrived on Earth and had battled evil aliens. Palmer had his reservations, but he published the letter and was surprised to receive hundreds of requests for more information. Shaver replied with a long story titled: "A Warning to Future Man," which Palmer edited and rewrote as "I Remember Lemuria." It was published in March, 1945. The piece received an unprecedented response from the magazine's readership. More than 50,000 letters flowed in from people who praised the work but also added their own personal experiences which supported the story. Basically, Shaver's story relied on "racial memories" about a race of subhuman creatures called deros (detrimental robots) living in underground cities with the Earth. The deros had once been slaves of an advanced civilization which had once existed on Lemuria, but had perished during the cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis. Deros had control of the Lemurians highly-advanced technology, including mind-rays which they directed at humans on the surface of the Earth, causing mental, emotional and physical problems. Other devices caused earthquakes, volcanoes and droughts. Their sole pastime was to annoy and persecute the human race. Occasionally, they would kidnap humans and torture them, sometimes returning them to the surface, but most often hiding them forever, such as the case of Jimmy Hoffa and Judge Crater. Ray Palmer continued to publish the Shaver stories as fact, which eventually led to his firing from Amazing Stories, but he then began his own science fiction pulp magazine, called first Other Worlds, then Flying Saucers from Other Worlds and then finally Flying Saucers. The stories continued being published until the 1970s. MARK-AGE is a quasi-religious group that still exists today. Its basic set of beliefs is that mankind was once part of an interplanetary spiritual communications system, but has turned away from spiritual matters. Because of this, the Hierarchical Board of the Solar System "drew the veil" over our consciousness. However, some of the aliens, being benevolent, are trying to increase our spiritual consciousness, using mental communications with certain members of our society, projecting their own bodies or actually making themselves seen in their flying saucers. Mark is the chief contact for Earth, and has been assigned to make mankind "space-conscious" and ready to meet other life forms. Mark-Age devotees believe that God is helping the United States space program because it was defined as "one nation under God." The Soviet Union was not given such help because it was in their opinion atheistic. A similar group is the Universal Link, which is concerned that our spiritual understanding is not at the same level as our technology. They view our society as plagued by injustice and strife. They also hold that the Chinese are "breaking the power balance of the world" and may lead us into atomic war. Flying saucers are the "links" in the aliens' operation to Earth which is designed to create a paradigm shift towards more spiritual matters. The Universal Link is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to Earth, Jesus being an alien whose real name is Orthon. According to the Raelians, aliens are really the "Elohim" referred to in some biblical teachings, meaning literally, "those from the sky." They created humans in a laboratory on their own planet and put us on Earth. We accidentally gained intelligence through interbreeding, and became self-consciou s. The aliens left us to our own affairs, but they occasionally send messengers to check on us, such as Jesus, Mohammed and Budda. The latest alien messenger is Rael, born as Claude Vorhilon, who has been to their home planet and met all the other messengers there. Raelians believe that all of the miracles and visitations recorded in the Bible were performed or caused by aliens and their UFOs. They have about 10,000 members worldwide, based in France but with satellite groups in other countries including the USA and Canada. Raelians made the news this year for two bizarre developments. One is that they have developed and will soon open a "theme park" like Disneyland where children can ride on "exact" replicas of alien spacecraft and animated characters will assist visitors in understanding teh nature of aliens and the UFO phenomenon. The other story is that the Raelians have sponsored a car entered in the Grand Prix, in order to generate some awareness of their cause. Robert Barry founded the 20th Century UFO Bureau in the late 1960s. He stressed that the public had been lied by the government about the existence of UFOs and aliens on Earth. Basically, an anti-coverup group, Barry also taught that UFOs were spaceships piloted by angels, although a few are driven by Satan and his forces. The angel-piloted UFOs assist the Israelis in their battles in the Holy Land. In the 1970s, Barry held public meetings in a number of cities and towns, promoting himself in "bible belt areas such as Steinbach, Manitoba and in Pennsylvania. Vonnetta Chouinard was born in 1935 in Oxford, Nova Scotia. When she came out of her mother's womb, she had a caul on her face, considered a lucky or fortunate omen. She claimed that at age 7, she died from pneumonia, but "rose again on the third day" after sulfa drugs were administered to her. At age 10, she walked into another dimension and began having visions. In 1968, space creatures took her in their craft to other planets, and even inside the Earth. While on board during one of her journeys, they used an x-ray device to look inside her body. They found several tumors in her body and they operated on her with such advanced surgical techniques that they left no scars. Vonnetta says she was chosen by beings from the fourth dimension to carry their message of peace and sanity to the world. She was directed to help convince mankind to stop pollution, cease atomic testing and repent to God. She was interested in educating children in the aliens' message through UFO comic books and TV shows. In 1975, a "scout craft" burned a cross into a field in Nova Scotia. No snow stayed on the cross, which remained warn to the touch all winter. In spring, no grass grew. A spring nearby turned reddish, then cleared, but Vonnetta began holding religious ceremonies at the site. She claimed that people could be healed by water from the spring, and her "services" were attended by many devotees who were healed of ailments such as arthritis, lameness and blindness. However, some local residents who were skeptical of the activities attempted to put an end to them by hiring a bulldozer to plow the cross over. Vonnetta and her group made a public demonstration of solidarity by laying in front of the bulldozer and stopping the plan. But, as Vonnetta noted, the bodies of those who wanted to plow over the cross were found soon after at the bottom of a lake, with many bones broken. She said that this showed how bad things would happen to those who got in the way of the plans of Space Brothers. Vonnetta said she could sense "vibrations" emanating from the UFOs flying overhead, and also from radiation left behind after they took off from their landing sites. The Society of Unarius was directed by Ruth Norman (Archangel Uriel) for several decades until her death in the 1990s. The group owns dozens of acres on California where each year they await the mass landings of spaceships which will save selected spiritually-attuned individuals. They believe that Earth needs to become the 33rd member planet of the Interplanetary Confederation. Jesus, Mohammed and Einstein were channelled by Norman, giving further teachings to the Society's followers. The Society holds parades and meetings for which members dress up in costumes representative of other planets in the Confederation. Finally, the Kosmon Church believes that Zoroaster (Zarathrustra) was the first Great Teacher; he was an emissary of KOSMON, a spiritual entity/life force. They hold that mankind is unaware of anything off its ethereal plane, and are ignorant of the danger from lower, evil planes which are pressing on Earth, disturbing humanity. The Kosmon Church is warning us that the Ethereans are coming, Discussion We can see recurring themes present in most of these groups: 1) Mankind's spiritual awareness is missing or weak. 2) Space Brothers are trying to coax us back onto the path of spiritual understanding. 3) There will be a Second Coming. 4) Salvation is possible. It appears that, for the most part, UFO religious cults and groups are all concerned with the welfare of the human race. They are trying to spread the teachings of their "masters" in hope that mankind will be saved from itself. Therefore, they are basically "normal" religious groups which simply replace God with a physical being from another planet. They reject science's dismissal of UFO reports, and in doing so, adopt an anti-science attitude that is impressed on their followers. (However, the Heavens Gate cult used technology itself to spread and interpret spiritual and mystical teachings, an interesting combination of beliefs.) The groups usually receive instructions directly from their masters,' usually through channelled missives. Unfortunately, this sometimes led to many "unauthorized" readings and messages by individual members, since there was no control over the depth to which members could become immersed in the particular group's ideology. This sometimes led to their own contacts with the alien masters, distorting the original teachings. Since individual members could themselves become "in tune" with the aliens, they could obtain their own ego-enhancing, spiritual high.' But as we have seen from the Heavens Gate incident, there are personal dangers from becoming too involved in one's faith. In 1982, two people waited in their car for more than a month in North Dakota. They spent the entire time in their car, waiting for a spaceship to arrive. They were drawn by a "higher power" as they sat in below-freezing temperatures, snowbound in their vehicle. Eventually one of them died of a combination of hypothermia, dehydration and starvation, which spurred the other to seek help. (Source: Winnipeg Free Press, November 19, 1982) Some UFO-based religious groups' concepts probably reflect anxieties about our present society and more specifically, the possibility of nuclear war or the general angst felt by those oppressed or otherwise "left out." Other themes are the role of religion in a technological society, the need for peaceful international relations and the possibility of extraterrestrial visitation. According to most groups, the Space Brothers come from planets free from war, poverty and need. They also have achieved immortality through an emphasis on spiritual matters. In short, they exist in a idyllic paradises much removed from terrestrial problems. The Space Brothers also have come to Earth to stop arms proliferation and to prevent further war. Many early UFO religious cults were anticommunist but were paradoxically socialist in their structure. This was ironic, because both the FBI and CIA monitored the groups because they were deemed "dangerous." often infiltrating the groups in order to keep watch on them. Cult members' fear of death is lessened or eliminated by the belief that the aliens will prolong their lives or reincarnate them on another planet. The groups often made Jesus a spaceman, but still defined him as a true messenger who died trying to teach us truth and love. Since Earth was not "ready" yet, the groups had to have human leaders to act as go-betweens. All groups shared their mission to educate mankind in order to save us from destruction. Hence, they sought public exposure in order to transmit their leaders' messages. Furthermore, it should be noted that UFO cults almost always promulgated a "Christian" philosophy of love, peace and reconciliation. Most taught that we should be kind to one another, respecting all life and caring for the Earth. Many had strong environmental convictions. Bo and Peep (or Te and Do) first formed the Christian Arts Centre in Houston in 1972, to promote religious artistic activities. Only three years later, the families of 20 people were panicked when they received postcards from their children informing them that they were "leaving this Earth" and would not see them anymore. Police investigation uncovered the cult commune in Oregon. It was learned that at that time, dozens of people had left their jobs, families and even their children to follow "The Two." That was in 1975. In 1997, we learned that the cult was still operating, with tragic consequences. Their message was the same, and people still were being recruited into its membership. We know that in 1997, 39 people died. In 1975, dozens of people joined the cult, and many were never heard from again. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Swamp Gas Journal is copyright (c) 1997 by Chris A. Rutkowski. Mail correspondence to: Box 1918, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 3R2 Email correspondence to: rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca The Swamp Gas Journal, UFOROM and NAICCR are not affiliated with the University of Manitoba, and don't represent its ideas, opinions, etc. (Come to think of it, no one here has noticed me yet.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: BGBOPPER@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:18:51 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:40:22 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >So If anyone feels compassion for Mr Greer's problems, I suggest you donate >it to your national Cancer Research Fund, so that everybody with cancer can >profit from it. >Then there is also the possibility that he isn't telling the thruth, and >that the mony he is asking for is actually going to end up somwhere else .... >Best Regards, >Karel Bagchus. Karel, BRAVO!!! I agree 100% send the bucks to whatever Cancer Research Org. that you like and benifit everyone. I will send an additional $25 to the American Cancer Society just because your post makes so much sense. Also, how many M.D.'s don't have health insurance? May I add that it was a pleasure meeting Errol & Sue in the New Mexico heat.....Keep up the GREAT work. Best Always, Russ Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 News resource - 'Newsworks' From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:06:48 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:25:45 -0400 Subject: News resource - 'Newsworks' A quick note about a news resource I stumbled across that some of you may occassionally find useful. A searchable collection of news reports from over 100 US newspapers, updated daily, is available at: <http://www.newsworks.com> I checked the site out: it has a search feature right on the main page. If you enter "ufo" and search on it, all relevant news articles on UFOs from these papers are displayed for you. A handy tool to tuck away for reference when needed. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:16:13 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:32:50 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:40:22 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >Then there is also the possibility that he isn't telling the thruth, and >that the mony he is asking for is actually going to end up somwhere else .... In which case, he should be stoned to death. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: News Flash from Mars From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:16:22 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:33:48 -0400 Subject: Re: News Flash from Mars >Date: 14 Jul 97 07:40:52 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: "BlindCopyReceiver:;"<> >Subject: News Flash from Mars >AIR FORCE DENIES STORIES OF UFO CRASH >Valles Marineris (MPI) - A spokesthing for Mars Air Force denounced as false >rumors that an alien space craft crashed in the desert, outside of Ares Vallis >on Friday. Bob, Very cute... and appropriate! <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:16:27 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:42:42 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: What I did on summer vacation - 1 of 2 I want to commend you on an outstanding job on Larry King Live. It was pretty obvious who Kent Jeffrey is paid by. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:20:46 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:35:22 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >From: BGBOPPER@aol.com >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >I will send an additional $25 to the American Cancer Society just because >your post makes so much sense. >Also, how many M.D.'s don't have health insurance? Russ, You bring up a good point. Anybody verify Greer really is an M.D.? Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Popular Mechanics denies Air Force influence From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:18:25 -0400 Subject: Popular Mechanics denies Air Force influence As many of you know, the July issue of Popular Mechanics has an article on Roswell, in which PM Science & Technology Editor Jim Wilson theorized that Roswell could be explained as the crash of a Hugo balloon/Horton glider spy craft hybrid piloted by Japanese pilots. Just prior to this, there were rumors that the Air Force was going to publish a similar theory in their Final Solution to the Roswell crash. I think Kevin Randle first brought that to our attention. Just to see if PM would admit to any connection, I sent off the following E-mail to Jim Wilson. As you will notice, he denies any Air Force involvement in his story. Does anyone have any information to contradict this, or was the PM story the source of the rumors about the Air Force's new report? _____________________________________________________ Subject: Roswell: Question for Jim Wilson From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> at Internet Date: 7/11/97 23.31 Question for Sci/Tech Editor Jim Wilson on the July Roswell story. Did the Air Force represent the Fugo balloon/Horton glider theory as something they were proposing as a solution, or was this a theory you arrived at on your own from your own research? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilson's reply Subj: Re: Roswell: Question for Jim Wilson Date: 97-07-14 12:14:22 EDT From: pmwebmaster@hearst.com To: DRudiak@aol.com (David Rudiak) No USAF involvement in this theory. Thanks for the question Jim Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Roswell '97 - The After-Math From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:55:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:55:42 -0400 Subject: Roswell '97 - The After-Math From: http://www.newsworks.com/NewsWorks/search/1,1260,,00.html Roswell promoter passed hot checks worth $92,000 By JOHN WISE Avalanche-Journal In Roswell, N.M., the visitors - earthly and otherwise - have=20 left. But authorities would like one visitor to come back. Roswell police are investigating more than $92,000 in hot checks=20 connected to an entertainment promoter in town for the 50th=20 anniversary UFO Alien Encounter festival July 1 through July 6. Detective Daren Treadwell of the Roswell Police Department said=20 Anaheim, Calif., promoter Jeffrey Immediato used a fraudulent=20 check to start an account with the Bank of America in Roswell. Treadwell said the promoter used the account to write about 30=20 checks and several bogus cashier's checks to various businesses=20 in Roswell, including two motels. Now Immediato is nowhere to be=20 found. Kathryn Hellberg, assistant manager of the Best Western Sally=20 Port Inn and Suites on Main Street, said Immediato reserved and=20 used 13 rooms for entertainers and others connected to the=20 promotion. But when it came time to pay up on Monday, Hellberg said, the=20 promoter's check didn't clear. "Being over a certain amount, we called the bank and they told=20 us the account was on hold," Hellberg said. "Then we found out=20 about the Roswell Inn and several other businesses." Bank of America spokeswoman Betty Reiss said she could not=20 comment because the matter is still under investigation. Roswell Inn manager Joe Babbitts acknowledged that the business=20 was victimized by at least one hot check, but he declined to=20 comment any further. Hellberg did not disclose the amount for the bounced check, but=20 she said it was more than $5,000. She said Immediato handed out business cards for his company,=20 Newport Entertainment Inc. But when she tried to call the phone=20 numbers printed on them, she found they were for businesses=20 elsewhere, she said. The numbers are now disconnected, Treadwell said, and Immediato=20 left no trace of himself. "The way I understand it, the merchants are just going to have to=20 eat it," he said. "I mean the bank is out that money, too." Treadwell said his report will be sent to the district attorney's=20 office this week. "It just depends if I can get enough of a case to issue a warrant,"=20 he said. "We really don't have a lot. It'll just take a little time." Stan Crosby, one of the organizers for the city's UFO extravaganza,=20 said he was approached by Immediato last year, but no contracts were=20 signed because Crosby didn't feel comfortable with the promoter. "We tried to warn people about these promoters - that they've got=20 their own reality. They'll tell you anything. That's been my=20 experience," Crosby said. 07/13/97 12:52 AM Copyright Lubbock Avalanche-Journal 1997 ____________ From: http://www.newsworks.com/NewsWorks/search/1,1260,,00.html Roswell benefits from 'alien' anniversary Web posted 7/10/97 The Associated Press ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - Thanks to aliens, two Roswell teens will=20 have their college education paid for next year, David Kinsel and=20 Jennifer Lopez can afford their wedding and flower pots will soon line Main Street. Residents of Roswell spent last week playing host to about 40,000=20 visitors marking the 50th anniversary of a purported UFO crash=20 north of town. This week the community is counting its profits. "All those people came to town and bought all the UFO paraphernalia,=20 but they also bought gasoline, motel rooms and food,'' said Roswell=20 Mayor Tom Jennings. "It was a real boost for our community." He said city coffers will benefit, although specific figures will=20 not be available for several weeks because occupancy tax and gross=20 receipts are still being calculated. "In addition to the money, I think it was a real boost for the=20 camaraderie in our community," Jennings said. ``We had our best dress=20 on." According to a now-famous story, the government recovered a crashed=20 spaceship and alien bodies from a ranch near Roswell in July 1947.=20 The Air Force has long contended the wreckage was actually a=20 high-altitude balloon. And last month a new Air Force report said=20 people may have mistaken parachute test-dummies as alien bodies. This year, the town cashed in on international interest in=20 extraterrestrial phenomena, hosting an alien party that included=20 lectures, running races, theater, concerts and museum shows. The Roswell JayCees, the Junior Chamber of Commerce, ran a UFO trade=20 exposition, renting $150 booths and charging $1 admittance. Wes Miller said the group netted $20,000, which will fund college=20 scholarships for two Roswell teens. Miller said some of the profits also have been donated to United Way=20 of Chaves County to be spent on a home for mentally ill people called=20 People Care. He said smaller civic projects - Santas for seniors and JayCees=20 against youth smoking - also will be funded. David Kinsel, a waiter at Denny's restaurant in Roswell, said his tips=20 doubled during the six-day celebration, bringing him enough money to=20 pay for his wedding. "Basically, aliens are paying for me to get married," he said. "Those=20 tips are covering the rest of the wedding dress, my tuxedo, church=20 rental, invitations - just about all of it." Vonnie Goss, who directed the play 'Ezekiel's Wheels' for the Roswell=20 Community Little Theatre, said all the receipts have not been totaled=20 yet, but she's hoping their seven all-volunteer performances will=20 bolster their accounts by about $1,000. "On top of the money, we got lots and lots of coverage," she said.=20 "It was fun to have that kind of national and international attention. The money will go into a fund for the 38-year-old group to build a new=20 theater, she said. Dusty Huckabee at the Main Street Roswell Project said his economic=20 development organization sold several thousand $2 bumper stickers that=20 say: "Crash In Roswell Tonight." He said they made about $3,000 after paying for printing, and hope to=20 make $2,000 more by the end of this summer. The organization will use the money to install 400-pound flower pots=20 on Main Street, Huckabee said. "It just helps continue our beautification efforts downtown," he said. Huckabee said he is particularly pleased about positive surveys=20 turned in by visitors. He said that of the 215 surveys he has read,=20 200 are very positive. "I'm proud to be a Roswellite today." he said. =A9 1997 Amarillo Globe-News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: NEIL CUNNINGHAM <106015.2402@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:25:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:24:22 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:20:46 GMT >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: BGBOPPER@aol.com >>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >>I will send an additional $25 to the American Cancer Society just because >>your post makes so much sense. >>Also, how many M.D.'s don't have health insurance? >Russ, >You bring up a good point. Anybody verify Greer really is an M.D.? Of course Dr. Steven Greer is an MD and of course he has health insurance,this fund is for Shari Adamiak,the CSETI international research director,who does not. Also this post is for friends and supporters of CSETI,who have provided support,morally and financially in the past,and have helped instigate historic breakthroughs for all mankind. Best Regards, Neil Cunningham.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:20:37 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >>From: BGBOPPER@aol.com >>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles > You bring up a good point. Anybody verify Greer really is an M.D.? Steven Greer is licensed to practice medicine in the state of North Carolina and has been since 1988. He may be licensed in other states as well. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: News Flash from Mars From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jul 97 09:07:06 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:27:01 -0400 Subject: Re: News Flash from Mars >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:16:22 GMT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: News Flash from Mars >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net Roger & all, I forgot to note in my original post that I am not the author of that delightful little piece. It came from a friend who didn't know who wrote it. Whoever did has a great sense of humor. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Headline News does UFOs From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:30:16 -0400 Subject: Headline News does UFOs At 4:40 PM PST CNN Headline News did an exceptional UFO story that contained responsible coverage today. I caught the tail end of the story that seemed to be be an interview with 2 Georgia investigators that were describing their case studies, witness drawings, and some of the their theories about the phenomenon. The last thing they stated is that UFOs will not be completely accepted by society until the US Government makes a formal admission or an extraterrestrial craft is acquired and holds up to scientific scrutiny etc. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Re: .....Reducing Government Secrecy 1997 From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:30:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:56:28 -0400 Subject: Re: .....Reducing Government Secrecy 1997 Hello James ... you wrote: >Date: 20 May 97 12:25:45 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: .....Reducing Government Secrecy 1997 > >>Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:44:28 -0400 >>From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Report of the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government >>Secrecy >1997 > ....snip.... > >....snip.... Hynek was paid for an awfully >long time from the Pentagon, coming up with series of >'explanations' that never cease to amuse the armies of >true believers, JC: Since Hynek is my forte, I have to ask ... "Such as?" >mysteriously sobering up as CUFOS trots forth >it's material. JC: Exactly which material? Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Night Watch on-line Discussion with John Velez From: Max Q Baker <maxq@delphi.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:08:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:48:06 -0400 Subject: Night Watch on-line Discussion with John Velez SPECIAL DISCUSSION WITH JOHN VELEZ: On Friday, July 18th from 8 - 9 PM EST, Night Watch is sponsoring the first in its series of serious discussions on UFO related topics. This discussion features John Velez, who has been the personal representative to Budd Hopkins, involved in helping those who have gone through abduction experiences. Mr. Velez will be answering questions on alien abduction/UFO scenarios. All questions must be sent to me by 6 PM EST Wednesday, July 16 (sorry about the short notice) to: maxq@delphi.com The advanced question format is so that John can have advanced time to answer the questions thoughtfully, which will leave him more time to answer spontaneous questions that his replies might inspire. Since this will be a formal discussion, we have established a protocol. Once a question and answer has been posted by Mr. Velez, if you have a question, you may type a "?", and if you would like to make a relative comment, you may type a "!". Questions and comments will be addressed in the order in which they appeared on the board. The chat room is run by Mike Fulstone of NightWatch, and as such is a private board. If you wish to participate directly, you may email Mike at decatur@swbell.net and give him your email address, and the handle/nickname you will be using. He will in turn send you an email with your username/password combination for the ASIDE chatroom, and the URL to access the board, Friday Evening. Even if you are unable to attend the chat personally, we are intending to capture it to a text file and post the edited final copy on Mike's board. Therefore, questions from all are welcome and encouraged. Please arrive about 15 minutes before the chat to check in so that the discussion is not flooded by screen messages of "so and so enters the room". Sponsored by "NightWatch" http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/7261/frames.htm - Max Q Baker, co-founder maxq@delphi.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? From: "Derrel" <derrel@holman.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:52:15 -0400 Subject: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? Question: When will the peer review begin? J.A., (concerning the Alleged Roswell Debries). (We are still in the beginning phases of the original alleged implant research...more biologists and DNA persons are now on board to advise, discuss and continue the remarkable anomalies found in the biological housing surrounding the 7 different objects removed from 5 different people. Only 3 of these people are our original 2 surgeries. That's just the biology. See the site in a few days to see what the latest is concerning the remarkable metallurgy...this is on going on in several labs, as we speak. When this information is finally in, collated and the peer review is finished. The abductees, contactees, or "experiencers," will be the very first ones to get the news in total.This was promised to them and will be fulfilled in a report on the entire scope of investigations. It has been the thinking of some persons who funded some of the research to reveal as much as possible to the public, after the tests were over but not, after the peer review. This is not the position of most of the scientists on board now. It is not our position as well. The work should go unimpeded and not "tried" in the public eye while the research is ongoing. Finish the science, if it merits a scientific paper, write it, and publish it in a scientific journal. This will invariably lead to a peer review. These people are far more qualified to look at the work of the disciplines involved, and their methods, than we. The People in the UFO community (especially those with qualified scientific and medical backgrounds), should then get to do their work on the objects, if it is decided that something was missed or could have been done better. We do feel that there are highly qualified people in the UFO field that can do the work, and very well. The problem in using them for this kind of hard science work, is that it makes your case less than bullet proof. The first shots fired at the case will be "bias." It is the way things go....No case will be bullet proof. Someone is always going to do that. If it is in the spirit of science and not mean spirited, then we must look at those criticisms and "improve, adapt, and overcome." If science is considered a self perfecting organism, then by that very definition it is not perfect, just improving. I think most of us are aware of that. Science is not the only set of eyes we want to look at any hard evidence. These are just the first set of eyes we want to look through, and certainly not the last. Science is like a pair of glasses...they can make things clear (if its the right prescription). We may need glasses if we dont see well without them. Science will tell you all about the book your reading, what it is made of, when it may have been made, and many necessary answers to questions you may want to ask...it may not be able to answer other questions on "why" the author wrote it, or even the depths of its content. That is what other "eyes," other glasses, are for. Some people in the UFO community may be able to see better than anyone. I think those people may be the abductees themselves. They may not have all of this "sorted" out yet to see the patterns (if there are any), that we do not see. With the help of all of these "glasses" and a trained set of eyes, perhaps we will all be able to come to some sort of conclusions. At that point Contact may be made. Whatever that may mean. That remains to be seen. ) Sorry for that I just thought it might help. Now to answer your question. It is much tougher than you think...Numerous new heavy weight scientists have weighed in...to disprove the claims of the anomalies, (or, to satisfy their skeptical curiosity). Regardless, we are grateful for this kind of attention on the materials and will continue until we all come to a solution as to why the Isotopic ratios are so different. This is only beginning...If it cannot stand this barrage, it will not get to a paper about its uniqueness. It will go down as why were the unique spikes found as in this artifact. This will allow a problem in this area to be uncovered...this is what science does. If the alleged Roswell derbies survives, then we go on to phase 3, not phase 2. If it does not survive, then we go on to phase three. Phase #2 is Peer review, Phase 3 is we are going to present new alleged artifacts. We have more than a few pieces of evidence. Tests are being run on numerous pieces right now, apart from the Alleged Roswell Derbies. When those tests are complete, and stop at phase 2 or 3, we will present more evidence to be evaluated. We did not just "happen" to come across some unusual artifact. I have been doing this for over 27 years. We still have some materials that may far outshine this interesting artifact. Thank you for your sharp inquiry. We are having to up date materials on our web pages at www.anw.com/first. Our web masters are still working on some very nice things and a complete restructuring. We will have an IMPLANT GALLERY, AND A PHYSICAL EVIDENCE GALLERY, A SECRET DOCUMENTS GALLERY AND OTHER THINGS FROM INVESTIGATORS IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WE WORK WITH. Some of the things will be: many different kinds of alleged implants or objects that are "alien to the human organism." Many of these objects will have been removed surgically. There will be, at least 2 different materials from alleged crash retrievals. There will be some anomalous materials that appear other worldly, or very different. One of our surgical patients thinks that our best evidence is a pane of commercial glass, that has the distinction to have what appears to be an image of a pair of small hands and an arm in the glass. One university scientist wants to interface an interferometer with the glass and see if he can pull out a 3 dimensional image of what ever may have passed through the object. I think this is enough of "hints" of what we could display. I hope you like the new sitework and our continued efforts to bring Qualified Scientists and Medical professionals into the field to review our work. If it can stand this kind of scrutiny (by scientists not in the UFO world), great, then others may follow this lead. That lead is to get the UFO community out of the dark ages and into, as one professor called it the Exploration Stage. According to this one specialist in his field, we are not even there yet. I hope this helps us all get there. There are many fine, talented and dedicated people in the community. Ultimately, we cannot peer review our own work, so to speak. We must not give ourselves grades and not allow the "professors" to see our homework assignments. It is difficult for us to even judge ourselves much less each other. We try to stay out of that mix...and leave it to others who feel they are highly qualified to do so. Thanks again for your inquiry and "good news of what CNI is doing." May I include a small work of Theodore Roosevelt for your review. This was given to me long ago...by a scientist at White Sands proving grounds. He was part of the Moon launches involving the Primates that were first sent up.I lived n Alamogordo,New Mexico for 13 years. I did not know what it truly meant then, I was only 18, I hope I am understanding it better now. Enjoy. "IT IS NOT THE CRITIC WHO COUNTS; NOT THE MAN WHO POINTS OUT HOW THE STRONG MAN STUMBLES, OR WHERE THE DOER OF DEEDS COULD HAVE DONE BETTER. THE CREDIT BELONGS TO THE MAN WHO IS ACTUALLY IN THE ARENA, WHOSE FACE IS MARRED BY DUST AND SWEAT AND BLOOD; WHO STRIVES VALIANTLY;...WHO SPENDS HIMSELF IN A WORTHY CAUSE; WHO AT THE BEST KNOWS IN THE END THE TRIUMPH OF HIGH ACHIEVEMENT, AND WHO AT THE WORST, IF HE FAILS, AT LEAST FAILS WHILE DARING GREATLY, SO THAT HIS PLACE SHALL NEVER BE WITH THOSE COLD AND TIMID SOULS WHO KNOW NEITHER VICTORY NOR DEFEAT." Derrel Sims, CM.Ht., R.H.A. FIRST - Fund for Interactive Research and Space Tecnology P.O. Box 60944, Houston, TX 77205
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 15 Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:55:03 -0400 Subject: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article http://www.azcentral.com/news/0715ufo.shtml Pathfinder's success mars author's theory ------------------------------------------------------------------------ By Steve Yozwiak The Arizona Republic July 15, 1997 What was billed as a conference to show the connections between Phoenix and a supposed city on Mars left folks emptying the Phoenix Civic Plaza in the wee hours Tuesday with as many questions as when they arrived. And one of the supposed "amazing new connections" touted by master of ceremonies Richard C. Hoagland turned out to be completely wrong. Throughout most of the nearly five-hour conference -- "Monuments of Mars: A Phoenix Connection?" -- researcher Vance Davis explained how the Nile River valley is similar to the Salt River valley. Both rivers flow north, he explained. Only one problem. The Salt, when it does flow, flows west. Not until late in the program did Davis realize what he called a "boo boo." However, the Gila River flows north, he inserted. Well, not exactly. The Gila also flows mostly west. No matter. Among the 1,500 believers in the paranormal, it was just a minor detail gone awry. For Ed and Patricia Halterman, who drove from Los Angeles to attend, it was all worth it. "We're not disappointed at all. We're glad we made the trip," said Patricia Halterman. Her husband, Ed, said he learned a lot about the ancient Hohokam who once live here in the Valley, and the couple really liked their first visit to Phoenix. "This feels like a town out of the middle of Egypt," he said. Two hours and 15 minutes of the program were carried live on the Art Bell show. Bell's nearly 15 million late night listeners were treated to the like of Phoenix City Councilwoman Frances Emma Barwood calling Phoenix Mayor Skip Rimsza "dense," for dismissing her call for an investigation of what many folks describe as strange lights over Phoenix on March 13. Barwood's comment came in response to Bell's comment that he tried to call Rimsza through a tin foil hat, but to no avail. "I don't think he can hear you, he's pretty dense," Barwood said, just before repeating her refrain that all she's done is ask questions about the strange lights. Barwood's call for a probe into mysterious sightings over Phoenix gained her national attention, including an appearance on Art Bell's syndicated show. "If you don't seek the truth, you're never going to find it," said Barwood, who faces a recall election Sept. 9. As for Hoagland, author of Monuments of Mars, a book that says strange features on Mars indicate the existance of intelligent life, the connections put together by his team produced yet another question mark. "Something is going to happen here between the 20th and 26th (of July)," Hoagland told the audience. Whether it's good or bad may be up to the people of Phoenix, he said. But one member of the audience had a different theory. Just before the originally scheduled end of the Art Bell simulcast, a man named Albert Wilson of Tucson blurted into the microphone that foreign soldiers were going to move out the populace of Phoenix so powerful forces could mine the up to one million tons of gold burried deep under the city. This was not the finale Hoagland and Co. wanted. They quickly convinced Bell to keep them on another half hour so they could, as Hoagland said, "go out on something more appropriate." Bell agreed that the show needed to "finish up properly." Hoagland wound up ending the program with some strange video that he said came from recent Space Shuttle missions that showed weird lights over the Earth. Hoagland explained that the stationary flashes were streaks of lightning in the clouds. But there were other lights that moved in unnatural ways, that hovered and formed patterns. "I don't know what it all means, but it's food for thought," said Rich Dartt of Flagstaff as he filed out of Civic Plaza. "They've got evidence of things we don't understand." As for something special happening in Phoenix later this month, Randal Rapp of Mesa didn't think so, though he did enjoy the show. "It's highly unlikely that anything significant is going to happen here," Rapp said. Last month, Hoagland predicted that the Pathfinder spacecraft would not land on Mars as scheduled on July 4. Instead, Hoagland predicted, the landing would be delayed until July 20. After the Pathfinder landed, Hoagland at first refused to admit it had happened, insisting instead that what people were watching on television was a simulation. On Monday, Hoagland promised to reveal new information that would show why Pathfinder, and its Sojourner rover, had to land on Mars on July 4 in order to prepare for "an even more significant event" that will occur on July 20, when there will be a special alignment of the stars and planets. "There is a very big plan being carried out behind the scenes, and Phoenix is a key part of the plan," according to information on Hoagland's Web page promoting Monday's event. A flyer distributed at the conference urged people to band together July 20-26 to "engender a collective commitment of love and harmony in all." It described the need to participate in "developing the precious and vital experience of harmony and cooperation among mankind. "If you choose it, this day (July 20) can be a time of majesty and dominion and of connecting with dimensions of yourself beyond your normal range of experience." The last two hours of the six-hour program were carried live, coast to coast, on the Art Bell radio program, which features discussions of UFOs, Bigfoot, ESP and other paranormal stuff. The strange features on the surface of Mars include a Sphinx-like face, pyramids and other features that, Hoagland says, comprise the ancient city of Cydonia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 CSETI Leader's Troubles From: xalium@netwrx.net (dfg) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:33:06 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:21:41 -0400 Subject: CSETI Leader's Troubles Levels of Membership: Friend of CSETI: $40-$59/year (10% off conference fees) Contributor: $60-$100/year (20% off conference fees) Sustaining Member $101-$500/year (33% off) Benefactor: $501-$2,000/year (50% off) Starlight Member: $2,001-$10,000 Lifetime Member (50% off) Research Founder: Over $10,000 Lifetime Member and lifetime complimentary conference status Corporate /Organization: $60/year minimum (for one membership) With all of this money "Dr." Steven Greer is asking for in the past. You would think he would have plenty of money to remove any cancer for his CSETI members. Steven Greer claims to being taking credit for the mass sightings in Phoenix as he "vectored" them in. Yet he can't vector in anything but some cancer. I personally think this man is a phoney. He claims to be able to vector in ET spacecraft, but can't bring forth any video, or photos. Just read the B.S. on the CSETI homepage for a good toilet read and look for any signs of photos or videos from these CSETI UFO encounters. Personally, I met him on 3-13-97 for a brief dinner. He put his arm around me and I thought he was gay. So we left and then shot some footage of the strange lights that night. Later he claims credit for it. My 2 cents worth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 UFO faces are ingrained in human genes From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:08:37 -0400 Subject: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes Monday July 14 7:03 PM EDT UFO faces are ingrained in human genes CHILLICOTHE, Ohio, July 14 (UPI) _ A Chillicothe Correctional Institution psychologist says the concept of a triangular face with large eyes has been genetically implanted in the human consciousness. Fred Malmstrom said the genetic inheritance may explain why UFO abductees describe their abductors as having big eyes. Many people, including several prisoners at Chillicothe who have claimed to have been abducted, have described their alien captors as short and humanlike, but with oversized heads and eyes. Malmstrom, a former Air Force officer, told UPI today, ``Do I believe that they've been abducted? No. Do I believe that they think they're telling the truth? Yes. The ones I talked to had other emotional problems that went along with it.'' He said data collected during the past 40 years report aliens are typically described as about 4 1/2-feet tall. Malmstrom said, ``My estimation is that it's a universal thing. That face is a template ingrained into the brain back in the facial recognition area.'' Malmstrom said ``human beings are prewired to generate and recognize that particular UFO face with the large eyes and the triangular head. That is the template in the hypothesis that a baby is born with _ and from which a baby learns, over a period of months, to recognize other faces.'' _- Copyright 1997 by United Press International. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Alfred's Odd Ode #154 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:06:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:20:02 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #154 Apology to MW #154 (For July 15, 1997) Robert Bauval has an interesting cut. As I sit at the fire with Graham Hancock. Eaves dropping on their conversation . . . And I paid for the privilege, by God! Neither man could hear me Though we shivered in the thrill, And huddled close to truthful flame Facing _out_ against the chill. The chill is pompous ignorance. And it freezes in your bones. Its air is filled with castles Where too many make a home. But I had me this small fire, And H & B supplied the kindling; Charts and plans and photographs, Ample reference for their building. They spoke regarding pyramids, And the wonder they inspire. They have a brand new argument And revision is REQUIRED! The megaliths far older. . .=20 Than what the *law* allows! Tradition=92s in the toilet? Current thought=92s a garbage scow! The evidence is in the *rock*! Like butter, melted from above! From glaciated wetlands, Rain was falling fast as doves. The evidence is in the *stars*! It=92s ancient knowledge of precession! Orion=92s belt=92s a _tool_ belt! Leo=92s mane is NOT digression! The evidence is in the *word*! Though _written_ off as myths and tales! The pompous learned so ordain it; Imagination=92s in dogma jail! The evidence is in the *maps* Men have drawn from vaster memory Of a time in distant past When Antarctica was more summery. The evidence is in our *hearts*, at last, And we know we look astray From the path of _best_ resistance Where we grandly WIN our day. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Gee =96 you know, I must really be missing something, but I _have_ taken an educated look at both sides of the argument, and the mainstream (landed) Egyptologists come up weak. Mainstream Egyptology comes up less referenced. Mainstream Egyptology is quick to use a convenient interpretation. Mainstream Egyptologists are unbrave. Moreover, they are an impediment to real learning, and, therefore, a shame to us all.=20 Whew! But, I paint with a broad brush. Sorry about the slopped color on your widdershins, some of you =96 but blame your unbrave brothers, and more sinister sisters. That=92s how av works. . .what can you do, but cop. Consider Dr. Hamaas and his proud, pontificating proclamations that in no way address conflicting data, _completely_ contrary! Let it up, let it out, let it in =96 it=92s no sin! Though you give up kith and kin, and half you=92ve ever been, you=92ll find you=92ve been no friend= -- to one another. Make amends as you contend your new approach where you befriend a surer life you would intend for sis and mother. Don=92t worry about the guys, make them satisfied with an occasional bone thrown to them. I sure appreciate the hell outa=92 any bone I get , I can tell =91ya! Sometimes you have to go out and roll with the pigs to get your self respect back. Two things happen. The first is a new respect for the pig, then an appreciation for position.=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pushing the envelope. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:08:58 -0400 Subject: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska Saturday July 12 3:23 PM EDT Teens find crop circle in Nebraska WAVERLY, Neb., July 12 (UPI) _ Nick Bartlett and B.J. Kruse, both 15, say what they found when they investigated some suspicious depressions in a wheat field south of Waverly amazed them. The two told the Lincoln Journal Star that they found perfectly shaped crop circles. Bartlett said, ``I couldn't believe how perfect the circles were.'' No one, including Bartlett and Kruse, is suggesting the weird formation was caused by a UFO but it certainly raises some puzzling questions. Bartlett and Kruse say they didn't do it. They say there were no tracks leading to the crop circle when they went out Friday morning to investigate. Bartlett first noticed a depression in the wheat field on July 6 and told Kruse about it. But both were out of town for a few days so they didn't look into it immediately. The teenagers described the configuration as a big ``F,'' or a big key. The largest circle is about 40 feet in diameter and the smaller one is about half that size. The crop circle is just off a dead end street. Crop circles are unexplained patterns in crop fields. They first began appearing regularly in southern England around 1978 and more recently in the United States. A year ago, a large crop circle was discovered in a barley field in Boyd County near the South Dakota/Nebraska border. Although some people speculate the circles are the imprints left by alien landing craft, more plausible explanations include human pranksters and a natural phenomena called ion plasma vortices, which are brief, intense flashes of microwave energy that are drawn toward the Earth by magnetic fields. _- Copyright 1997 by United Press International. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 The summer of Sagan From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:33:21 -0400 Subject: The summer of Sagan The summer of Sagan Astronomer's legacy lives, on Mars and at the movies (CNN) -- He was a scientist's scientist, and brought new insights both to fellow experts and laymen. Though astronomer Carl Sagan died last December, his presence is still keenly felt -- both in science and in science fiction. The landing site of the Mars Pathfinder probe has been dubbed Carl Sagan Station, a tribute from NASA scientists to a colleague who had a hand in virtually every planetary mission the agency has undertaken. "In the midst of our joy, we also felt Carl's absence," said Louis Freedman of the Planetary Society after the dedication. "This is the first arrival of a U.S. spacecraft at Mars that Carl ever missed." And Sagan is being remembered in an even more alien environment for an astronomer -- Hollywood. "Contact," a film version of his 1985 novel, was the number two movie in the country last weekend. Sagan and Ann Druyan, his wife and a frequent collaborator, worked with the film's creators for two years prior to Sagan's death. "We had a very strong sense that the greatest canvas of our age is the motion pictures," Druyan says. "If you want to really excite people and get the word out, that's the way to do it." Getting the word out was one of Sagan's gifts. Millions and millions of people -- and estimated 500 million, in 60 countries -- saw "Cosmos," Sagan's 1980 television series that traced the origins of the universe. Sagan was also a prolific author, and won a Pulitzer Prize for his "Dragons of Eden" in 1978. The legacy of Carl Sagan "Contact" is the story of a scientist, played by Jodie Foster, who risks her credibility and even her life pursuing a signal from space. "I was watching it, and I was thinking 'Who does she remind me of?'", Druyan says. "And then I realized that she had captured the essence of Carl, that audacity." Though he was a proponent of the idea of life on other worlds, Sagan remained, first and formeost, a scientist. In his 1996 book, "The Demon-Haunted World," Sagan attempted to debunk claims of UFO visits and abductions. Even in his science fiction, science came first. "He said 'Look, I really just need to protect the science,'" director Robert Zemeckis remembers. "He said, 'I just can't stand it when Hollywood movies talk down to the audience and get the science wrong.'" Druyan applauds the finished product. "I think he would have felt that we fulfilled our mission to to convey something about the grandeur of the universe and the romance of science." Sagan himself said, "This job is by no means done. We will voyage forever in the dark between the stars." With a mission of science and a flight of fancy as his legacy, Carl Sagan's voyage isn't done.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:42:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:28:23 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >http://www.azcentral.com/news/0715ufo.shtml >Pathfinder's success >mars author's theory >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >By Steve Yozwiak >The Arizona Republic >July 15, 1997 >What was billed as a conference to show the connections between Phoenix >and a supposed city on Mars left folks emptying the Phoenix Civic Plaza >in the wee hours Tuesday with as many questions as when they arrived. >And one of the supposed "amazing new connections" touted by master of >ceremonies Richard C. Hoagland turned out to be completely wrong. ========================================================================== Hi Errol, All, Charlie Brown- "Arrrrghhhh!" First Governor Symington ridicules and minimizes the impact of the mass sighting in Phoenix, and now Hoagland & Bell roll into town with their 'Magical Mystical Tour' spouting 'predictions' and making connections that exist only within the framework of their own synapses. In short, rather than using his credentials to try to bring credibility to the sighting, Hoagland chose to capitalize on it and take a page from the Ringling Bros. as he rolled into town with his circus! Gypsy predictions, dramatic threats that remind one of country preachers on any given Sunday morning in any rural church, ie; the following: Quote: Richard Hoagland >"Something is going to happen here between the 20th and 26th (of July)," >Hoagland told the audience. Whether it's good or bad may be up to the >people of Phoenix, he said. [Sing Along] "...so be good for goodness sake!" Whoa-ohhhh <VBG> Good aliens, bad aliens,...it's apparently all up to the good citizens of Phoenix! Don't f*ck-up guys, the Earth is counting on you to ask for the 'good package'! I get mad as Hell when I hear stuff like this. Know why? THERE IS SOMETHING MAJOR GOING ON FOLKS, AND WE HAVE TO GET SERIOUS, AND SOON! These "visitors" are abducting our citizens, and they appear anywhere and anytime they want to with complete impunity. Why are we wasting our time with Hoaglands and Bells? We've got to clean house folks, guys like Hoagland (for all the attention they get) are just 'camera whores' in the end. He is hurting the credibility of a good solid case like the one in Phoenix by attaching an 'Oral Roberts' style, (if Ahh don't get nine million dollahs by noon, de Good Lawd is goina strike me deyad) quality to them. Ya gotta love a guy like that! They're not about truth, they're not about serious investigation, they're not about helping the people of Phoenix, (and the rest of us) to get some straight answers. They are about 'themselves.' Example: Rather than discuss the merits/particulars of the case or to report the results of any investigations into the matter, Mr Bell chose to focus on the following; Ringmaster Bell, (in true 'media pro style') extended the program by a half-an-hour so that it wouldn't end on the following note: >Just before the originally scheduled end of the Art Bell simulcast, a >man named Albert Wilson of Tucson blurted into the microphone that >foreign soldiers were going to move out the populace of Phoenix so >powerful forces could mine the up to one million tons of gold burried >deep under the city. Who _are_ these people?! (Bell & Hoagland) Why in Hell does anyone attend/tune into these things? What the devil does any of it have to do with the sighting in Phoenix! I don't know why Bell didn't want it to end there, on that note! Mr Wilson put the 'capper' on the whole presentation, he summarized it, no,...he embodied the real spirit of it! <G> The only difference between Mr Wilson's insane remark, and Hoagland's insane remarks, is a matter of just a few degrees of 'rotation'. I thank God that the people of Phoenix know which direction their local rivers run! Think of how many he may have deluded or distracted from the real business at hand - the mass sighting of March 13th! They are doing us all a disservice. Instead of bringing sober, inquiring minds to Phoenix or serious attention to the case, they bring, the "Art Bell Circus" featuring, Richard Hoagland, the terminally verbose and long winded 'Snoremaster' of Cydonia! We're talking about 'Bell and Hoagland' instead of Phoenix! See what I mean? You don't see many reporters talking to Tom King or Bill Hamilton, or showing the videotapes that these gentlemen have collected on their newscasts. Can anyone tell me why? Time to clean house, eliminate the dead weight. The task and the challenge at hand is way too serious and has too many implications for all mankind for us to waste time entertaining and supporting the likes of Bell and Hoagland. Our time would be much better spent pushing for congressional hearings, or demanding answers for Phoenix from our representatives. Reminder: Frightening numbers of our citizens (worldwide) are reporting troublesome and confusing UFO/abduction related sightings, experiences and memories. I'm not just blowing wind up your skirt either, I _know_ from first hand experience what I'm talking about. We just can't afford the luxury of indulging in the time and energy wasting distractions offered by the Bells and Hoaglands. We need to focus ourselves and demand some answers and an immediate and serious investigation now, from our rep's. not more showbiz. Most folks already have 78 channels of shit pouring into their homes. Bell & Hoagland like many others in the field are just symptoms that our priorities and sensibilities are F.U.B.A.R.! [Mother's soto-voce]: "Yoooo-hooooo, it's time to wake uuuuuup!" John Velez, Alien Spawn ;) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:47:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:47:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments... >From: "Derrel" <derrel@holman.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: Re: Peer Review. >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:43 -0500 This message as intercepted at the Mendoza compound deep in the heart of the NWO electronic warfare reservation at Ty Bach, Ceredigion contains 9517 characters including routing information. Our cryptoggraphic programs, including a particularly sophisticated algorhythmic analytic disassembly language called Plain English, have so far failed to detect the names and institutions of the "Heavy Weight Scientists" so often mentioned among Mr Sims's prolix flummery. While few know better than His Grace how difficult it is to get good help these days, many more enquiring minds wonder why the Adversary of Mondoz is so reluctant to follow standard scientific and academic protocol. Some even recall that the last time they read of a research establishment patronized by Mr Sims, it turned out to be an organic gardening center, or something similar. (A lifetime spent in clandestine operations does induce a degree of cynicism.) Just one other thing. Those perceiving any similarity between the names Mondoz and Mendoza had better keep their thoughts to themselves if they wish to retain the high level of protection so long afforded their homes and businesses by our Organization. Yours &c Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza Reserve Thaumaturge, Cosmopolitan Order of the Long Spoon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Night Watch on-line Discussion with John Velez From: MTZPLX@aol.com [John Carland] Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:48:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Night Watch on-line Discussion with John Velez In my research involving abductee experiences I have noticed some fascinating similarities between these cases and two other, separate areas of investigation. These being the work of Dr. Brian Weiss with past-life regression using hypnotherapy and the remote viewing projects of the past 15 years in this country and others. Has anyone analyzed the data from these sources to search for potential links in these phenomena?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Posting Rules - Not Followed, Not Posted From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:56:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:56:55 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules - Not Followed, Not Posted The rules below are few and simple - yet some subscribers still don't want to play by them. The result? Messages don't get posted. ebk _____________________________________________ Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------ So there!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Paul Hill Question From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:23:34 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:18:46 -0400 Subject: Paul Hill Question hello fellow list members, i was curious as to the circumstances surrounding the publishing of "Unconvential Flying Objects, a scientific analysis" . is there a reason the book was published after his death? i think it is a fine work, worthy of much praise. james rhodes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:29:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:26:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article At 11:42 AM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article [text deleted for brevity] >Hi Errol, All, >Charlie Brown- "Arrrrghhhh!" >First Governor Symington ridicules and minimizes the impact of the mass >sighting in Phoenix, and now Hoagland & Bell roll into town with their >'Magical Mystical Tour' spouting 'predictions' and making connections that >exist only within the framework of their own synapses. [text deleted for brevity] >We've got to clean house folks, guys like Hoagland (for all the attention >they get) are just 'camera whores' in the end. He is hurting the >credibility of a good solid case like the one in Phoenix by attaching an >'Oral Roberts' style, (if Ahh don't get nine million dollahs by noon, de >Good Lawd is goina strike me deyad) quality to them. Ya gotta love a guy >like that! >They're not about truth, they're not about serious investigation, they're >not about helping the people of Phoenix, (and the rest of us) to get some >straight answers. They are about 'themselves.' [yet more text deleted for brevity] >Who _are_ these people?! (Bell & Hoagland) Why in Hell does anyone >attend/tune into these things? What the devil does any of it have to do >with the sighting in Phoenix! Good points. However, I'm not sure how you "clean house" when you have no standards to define proper and improper "behavior". People complain about politicians, who by definition are elected at the whim of the people. Here we are complaining about the actions of a few who are being watched (or listened to) because of their notoriety, rather than their expertise. As long as we watch (or listen), they'll remain in the limelight. The fault, unfortunately, is ours. >I don't know why Bell didn't want it to end there, on that note! Mr Wilson >put the 'capper' on the whole presentation, he summarized it, no,...he >embodied the real spirit of it! <G> >The only difference between Mr Wilson's insane remark, and Hoagland's insane >remarks, is a matter of just a few degrees of 'rotation'. I thank God that >the people of Phoenix know which direction their local rivers run! Think of >how many he may have deluded or distracted from the real business at hand - >the mass sighting of March 13th! >They are doing us all a disservice. Instead of bringing sober, inquiring >minds to Phoenix or serious attention to the case, they bring, the "Art >Bell Circus" featuring, Richard Hoagland, the terminally verbose and long >winded 'Snoremaster' of Cydonia! We're talking about 'Bell and Hoagland' >instead of Phoenix! See what I mean? Again, a very good point. >You don't see many reporters talking to Tom King or Bill Hamilton, or >showing the videotapes that these gentlemen have collected on their >newscasts. Can anyone tell me why? Primarily because the personalities are the story the reporters want to tell, rather than the actual story (or event) itself. >Time to clean house, eliminate the dead weight. The task and the challenge >at hand is way too serious and has too many implications for all mankind >for us to waste time entertaining and supporting the likes of Bell and >Hoagland. Our time would be much better spent pushing for congressional >hearings, or demanding answers for Phoenix from our representatives. While I understand your point, I'm not sure that they are "dead weight". Both Hoagland and Bell have attracted a number of people to the genre that might not otherwise be here. That is to their credit and should not be overlooked. But there is a more serious implication to your statement, in that someone (or perhaps a group of some sort) would have to define what is good and proper in this genre. Whose theories are best promoted, and whose should be eliminated from consideration, and what is the criteria for consideration for acceptance? Not all of the tangents in this genre are mutually compatible, which has become evident at times on UFO Updates. In the end, we are usually left to our own personal views to define what is valid and what is not. Until those views can be coordinated into a general pattern that everyone can agree with, it would be extremely difficult to "clean house". >Reminder: Frightening numbers of our citizens (worldwide) are reporting >troublesome and confusing UFO/abduction related sightings, experiences and >memories. I'm not just blowing wind up your skirt either, I _know_ from >first hand experience what I'm talking about. >We just can't afford the luxury of indulging in the time and energy wasting >distractions offered by the Bells and Hoaglands. We need to focus ourselves >and demand some answers and an immediate and serious investigation now, >from our rep's. not more showbiz. Most folks already have 78 channels of >shit pouring into their homes. Investigation will have to come from investigators, rather than politicians or "legislators". They hold the purse strings and for all the noise you may hear, that is their real power in this. But, write letters to your Representatives and Senators demanding action! If they don't write back, write them again until they do. If enough people make contact, they'll understand that this is a matter of political survival and perhaps they'll jump on the bandwagon with the rest of us. But to be effective, make sure your requests are serious, logical, and not too far out in "left field". Members get letters from "wierdos" all the time, and you don't want to come off as a "nut". Just a few comments from this peanut in the gallery.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:10:08 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:33:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:47:25 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments... > This message as intercepted at the Mendoza compound deep in the heart of > the NWO electronic warfare reservation at Ty Bach, Ceredigion contains 9517 > characters including routing information. Our cryptoggraphic programs, > including a particularly sophisticated algorhythmic analytic disassembly > language called Plain English, have so far failed to detect the names and > institutions of the "Heavy Weight Scientists" so often mentioned among Mr > Sims's prolix flummery. While few know better than His Grace how difficult > it is to get good help these days, many more enquiring minds wonder why the > Adversary of Mondoz is so reluctant to follow standard scientific and > academic protocol. Some even recall that the last time they read of a > research establishment patronized by Mr Sims, it turned out to be an > organic gardening center, or something similar. (A lifetime spent in > clandestine operations does induce a degree of cynicism.) Quite true, Petey! It was an astounding display of bafflegab, of the kind only appreciated and practiced by those who wish to disguise their lack of content behind unabashed subterfuge. The preponderance of multisyllabic vacuosity surrounding this particular subject renders its readers etymologically betwixt and betwiddled as they attempt to comprehend the accuracy and scientific lineage of the individuals involved. As noted so expressively at the end of his missive, the writer is the *sole* Quixote of rational, scientific exlporation, and he alone can understand the complexities of this research. Far be it from us, who want pesky little things called "details," to be in any position to express concern over what might appear to be obvious confutative discourse with negative connotations. > Just one other thing. Those perceiving any similarity between the names > Mondoz and Mendoza had better keep their thoughts to themselves if they > wish to retain the high level of protection so long afforded their homes > and businesses by our Organization. Furthest from my mind, indeed! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Crop circle in The Netherlands From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:39:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:45:41 -0400 Subject: Crop circle in The Netherlands Here is a crop circle report I recieved recently. Joel henry Minnesota MUFON From: "JAN" <Sector.7G@ping.be> To: <jhenry@wavefront.com> Subject: Crop circle in The Netherlands Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:21:17 +0200 Information from Belgian paper "Het Nieuwsblad", edition july 11th 1997. Translated from Dutch. " Cropcircles In The Netherlands" HOOGHALEN (anp) - Never before has there been discoverd such a big number of mysterious crop circles inside one complex, as this past week in Hooghalen near Drente. In a rye field there are 15 circles right next to eachother. They were discoverd last tuesday, two days after the little space car Sojourner left it's first tracks behind in the dust of Mars. After getting a tip from a train passenger, Hilda Musch from the Ufo-aid point in Sappemeer, started an investigation. "We're talking about a very unique formation. This is to compair with the big complexes wich were observed in England. It could be a hoax, but the rye is unwalked upon. It's for sure that these circles are made by an inteligant life form". The crops are 21 trough 24 feet wide. By order of the Centre For Crop Circle Studies (based in Dronten), Musch took samples from the rye and the soil. In *one* of the circles she discoverd a mysterious white powder on the plants. She is still unable to find an explanation for the stuff (wich is currently undergoing some lab tests). The 31 year old Musch is regression therapist by proffesion. Since 1991 she treats, amongst others, people that think they were abducted by alien beings. Or clients who are holy convinced that they themselfs were born on Mars or elswere in the universe. By ways of therapy she tries to bring them back to the source of such thoughts. "Sometimes they're experiences are very realistic. Unfortunatley, the Media redicuiols it. People who believe in the existense of other beings are left in the cold, according to Musch." End of article. I can also tell you that last summer (1996) there were a lot of circle reports in The Netherlands, and also in Belgium and Germany to a lesser extend.. Alltough discussed in numberours papers, magazines and even TV shows, no journalist gave it a tought to investigate a possible 'link on a map" ... Thanks for your attention. JAN. P.S. Sorry for spelling errors! ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:11:11 +0930 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:27:05 -0400 Subject: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles These two "Gentlemen" wrote: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:20:46 GMT Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> To: updates@globalserve.net >From: BGBOPPER@aol.com >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSETI Leader's Troubles >I will send an additional $25 to the American Cancer Society just because >your post makes so much sense. >Also, how many M.D.'s don't have health insurance? >Russ, >>You bring up a good point. Anybody verify Greer really is an M.D.? >Plus all the other niceties preceeding this lot.<ASIUS>. SNIP------------------------------------------------ Hello fellow list members, Firstly, I would like to point out that I am not, never have been and don't have any plans of being associated with CSETI at this time. Secondly, I would like to say that I am utterly disgusted at the new low that some members of this list seem to have sunk.. I cannot believe that anyone with the most remote shred of compassion, or, for that matter, decency, would stoop to such a snide level as has been demonstrated in the discussion on this topic. Sure Steven Greer has made some disputable claims in the eyes of some, but it would have to be a very devious scheme indeed to "fleece" people of their hard earned cash on the basis of falsely claiming to be suffering from one of the mos t insidious diseases known to man. I am amazed and mortified at the vengeful snipes made in these instances. I may not have had cancer(yet), but I do suffer from debilitating spinal neurological and physio-mechanical injuries which keep me almost exclusively housebound and a lot of the time bed-ridden. Which I think, after seven years, qualifies me somewhat to comment on this subject(serious health problems). For anyone to insinuate that the alleged cancer of Steven Greer and his associate is perhaps a money raising scheme, I find distasteful and offensive in the extreme. If you feel as strongly about this as you seem to, pursue the man for "False Pretences" or "Larceny by Trick". Don't kick the crap out of him here , do it "through channels". It is not until you have suffered from a serious infirmity that you begin to rea lize the enormous increase in your expenses, at a time when you are least able to do a damn thing about earning extra money to cover your costs. Re: Insurance. I can assure you, unless you are on an "all the bells and whistle s" loss of income + pain and suffering type benefit which actually pays more than y ou were previously earning, you could not even begin to hope to make ends meet. It has been my experience that your general living expenses actually dramaticall y increase when you are confined. There are additional costs for the following: Heating/Airconditioning General electricity consumption Telephone Travel Water Consumables - coffee, milk, tea and other foods Extra casual comfortable clothing Cleaning Medicines Counselling Doctors Radiology Pathological services Entertainment Garden maintenence House maintenence Propane etc., etc., etc. This is just a very short list of areas in which your expenditure increases quite dramatically and you have no means of raising extra income. This then puts extra pressure on your relationship with your partner as, in my case at least, my wife has had to take on 2 jobs just to cover the additional expenses incurred due to me being confined to home. It is very easy to say "Oh, the medical insurance will cover it" - it doesn't even come close. And, that is just for the medical costs. What about the other "general" living expenses"? When you are confined you use far more heating and air-conditioning by virtue of the fact that you are at home all day and not at work. You can't drink your employer's coffee or use his phone, or drink his water, or use his bathroom. Your "Work wardrobe" becomes obsolete and at the same time you need to stock up on clothing that is comfortable to lay down in. I hear you say "but you don't need to travel to work, so surely you will save money there", alas, not so. I need to use cabs and at times ambulances as the drugs I take make it too dangerous to drive, as does my condition, so instantly there is a huge increase in travel costs. You are unable to service the car yourself so your wife can travel safely from job to job - you have to pay premium rates to a mechanic to do tasks that were once simple and easily done at home. You can't cut the lawns, clean the guttering, paint the walls, weed the garden, sweep the leaves - but someone has to do it - do you burden your partner further or pay someone to do it????? Because your medicine screws with your brain, you need to buy books or pay for extended Internet access just to try and keep it stimulated in the hope that one day you will be able to return to the workforce - somehow. And all the while your savings dwindle as you have a pitiful "income". And, then come along the ignorant turkeys who have the audacity to call you a "Bludger", a "Slacker" and constantly jeer you as you have no instantly visible signs of your infirmity except of course those walking stick "Props". Then you lift your shirt and show them the ugly great scarring which you hide so that children don't sneer and laugh any more than they do about the limp or the walking sticks or the wheelchair. And, finally there are the "Foundations" who are charities who accept funds "on your behalf" for "research and support", the benefits of which you just never seem to see because the large majority of it goes in wages and administration, and I can assure you they are not mine. If you want to send your money to an institution rather than to one who may actually be in genuine need, so be it, but DO NOT KICK A PERSON WHEN THEY ARE DOWN - there is enough to worry about without reading that sort of puerile crap! I was of the understanding that he wasn't asking for monetary assistance for himself, but rather for his associate.(Whose name has slipped my mind). I think it was "Shari" or something like that. Cut the man some slack, in all probability he is suffering enough as it is. Just as you are entitled to your opinions I am entitled to mine. If I have misinterpreted your comments - I sincerely apologise. Otherwise, imagine for a few minutes that you have cancer and that you have to tell your loved ones, just ask yourselves "how would I do that" and reflect on it a while and the impact it would have on not only you, but your wives and kids. Next time make sure you engage your brain before putting your fingers to work. Regards, Mike Stahl aka. ASIUS I don't want or need your sympathy, I just want you to at least try and understand what people like us face each and every day! "As I travel through this journey which is life I shall abide by one simple rule. That which does not kill me will only make me stronger." ASIUS - "My Philosophy".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Bursting the Balloon From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:56:32 -0400 Subject: Bursting the Balloon If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to read the Air Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ What doesn't seem fair to me is that afters years of research some of the most respected ballon theorists like Karl Pflock, Robert Todd, Kal Korff and others that came up with theories and conclusions that were grounded in reality have been more or less pissed on by the Air Force's most current report which is clearly a fictionalized account of a still highly controversial incident. I'm speaking of people here that have done extensive research, know the data, and are aware of witness accounts unlike the Richard Weaver who appears to have forgotten what real research is. From what I have heard so far the only researcher to support the ballon theory that endorsed the Air Force's new story wholeheartedly was Phil Klass (surprise, surpise). I still have yet to hear whether some of the other ballon buffs think about the new Air Force report. I haven't seen a lot of back peddling nor have I seen cries of support. How have some of the ballon theorists reacted to the report? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 17:40:24 cst Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:02:19 -0400 Subject: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: 14 Jul 97 08:34:05 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Back, Brown & Beat... Bob Shell wrote: >Similarly, on the AA film. I don't know what it is, but I >know a number of things that it positively is not, and >recently crafted fake is one of them. Here we go again... Have you actually examined any film (as opposed to video) showing the image of the "alien"? It's a simple (but fundamental) question, Bob. Yes or no? If yes, when did this occur? There are no references to any first-hand examination of any relevant film samples by any independent analysts (I'll include you in that category for the sake of argument) in any of the literature on this subject. If not, how can you as a photo expert continue to make the categorical assertion that the AA "film" is not a "recently crafed fake?" Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Arizona 'V' Sighting connection? From: LeeAllen@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:04:18 -0400 Subject: Arizona 'V' Sighting connection? hello, last week, a co-worker brought up the march 13 multiple sightings in arizona & later produced a copy of usa today with a full page story on it (june 18, page 4). upon reading, i was shocked to see the descriptions & computer-created images, for they described exactly what i and hundreds of other people saw in the night sky over mobile, alabama in the late summer of 1989. i was with a group of friends in a large field behind e.r. dickson elementary school when someone said "look at that", pointing upwards. myself, mike breland, jennifer dunn, mary pritchett & others watched a "v" shaped formation of 7 white lights move slowly and silently from east to west. i thought i could detect a low-frequency sound, similar to that of a small earthquake tremor. i couldn't really discern a definite shape between or around the lights, but the stars in the background were distorted - similar to seeing heat waves rising off of a hot car in a parking lot, or like the "invisibility" special effect of the alien in the film "predator". the lights didn't pulse or change color or blink on and off, rather, they remained constant. i couldn't tell how high up the lights were, but they appeared to be close (a few thousand feet), for the lights were clearly visible. we all watched for about 4 minutes, whereupon the lights disappeared from our line of view - heading west, towards the airport. the next day, the local newspaper - the mobile press register - carried a small story, including a sketch of the "ufo". the three local news stations carried short news packages as well, but gave no additional information as to what i experienced. the mobile airport offered no explanation other than "it must have been something having to do with the military". this particular experience has haunted me ever since, and now, 8 years later, i find that the same thing was seen in arizona. where else in the world has this particular type of "ufo" been sighted? any other additional information would be greatly appreciated as well. thank you, lee allen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 13:36:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:54:56 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > >Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 > >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > >Subject: Robert Dean > >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Greetings John and Update Subscribers, 1. I did not post this to Updates. This post was in answer to someone on the Project 1947 List who thought that Robert Dean should carry the standard for UFOlogy. Errol & Sue are list members and are always welcome to cross post anything they like. However, you should realized you do not have the context of these messages or further clarifications. 2. It is not necessary to post further messages as I will summarize everything here. > > To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider that he is > >telling us about a Top Secret document that he took an oath to safeguard. > >It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a little > >oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is flushing the > >Constitution of the United States down the toilet. He has done the same > >to his oath to protect and defend the Constitution if what he says is > >true. > > So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a > >liar. In either case not a very creditable person. > (snip) > >Jan Aldrich > =========================================================================== > Hello Errol, Jan, All, > I think the world of Jan Aldrich and all of the hard and conscientious work > that he does. But I have to take issue with him in regard to the following > statement. > >So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an oath-breaker or a > >liar. In either case not a very creditable person. > Why only "two possibilities" Jan? Couldn't the man have "broken his oath" > in response to the dictates of his conscience? This is not a matter of conscience issue. He agreed to abid by proper lawful orders no matter his person opinion. Was he given an unlawful order? No. If he is unhappy with something that is classified, he could work for change without breaking his oath. But he choose to tell the world about a document which can't not be established to exist. He had the example of Major Keyhoe, but, of course, he did not learn from history. His "revelations" have not given us anything we can use or verify. Nor has his revelations caused any change in official policy. The whole thing has been a wash. We must accept it on faith. > A soldier is not supposed to > follow an unlawful/illegal order it is a moral/judgement call and an > obligation if in answer to a higher inner authority. You have not demonstrated anything unlawful in this document. Because you do not agree with something, that does not give you the right to break your oath. Your ideas of duty seem very elastic. There is not inner higher authority. That is Timothy McVeigh talk. The laws are written, and they are plain. > We all know that the reality of the UFO/ET presence represents a major > event in human history and development. The 'many' have been intentionally > kept in the dark by the 'few', (a situation that is rapidly changing) and > the (obvious) higher calling, (binding contract/oath if you will) lies with > ones connection and responsibilty to the service and welfare of the > majority. It is the very definition of a "soldiers" duties. The protection > of the citizens of ones own nation. None of the above is obvious. These are your theories and opinions. > When viewed in this light Bob Dean becomes a true 'patriot' and a 'HERO' in > the old fashioned sense of those words. It is why myself and so mmany other > abductees have come forward and faced the formidable wrath and ridicule of > the "public." Why do you think folks can tolerate that sort of thing? It is > the higher calling, the conviction that as long as one tells the simple > truth and does it for the benefit of ALL, there's no way to get hurt in the > end. (Least wise I certainly hope so! <G> I'd like to live long enough to > see us all vindicated.) I don't pretend to have inside knowledge of the truth. > You have called Bob a 'liar' Jan. John, you have my quote right in front of you at the beginning of this message, but you cannot even rephrase is accuarately. It is not subtle. Since you did not get it the first time, I will explain it again. The NATO Top Secret document Dean talks about either exists, or it doesn't. If it exists, it is protected lawfully and by Dean's oath. He reports he decided to break his oath. If it does not, exist then he is a teller of tall tales. That is normally said to be a lair. I did not say he was was a lair or an oath breaker, but he is one or the other. Dean defines the dilemma. He sets it up. I just pointed it out. Do you often shot the messenger? What I did say: is that in either case his creditability is damaged. >That, is not only beneath you, but way out of character. It is not out of character for me to demand work and character of a high standard. >If you have some evidence of lying or deception on the > part of Robert Dean, then put it on the table and let's all have a look at > it. You had additional information in the post you chose to ignore. > If not, then we should all take a good, long look at one of the things > that breeds disunity and in-fighting within the UFO community. John, you should take a good look what is written before you go off half cocked. > My trip to > Roswell brought this home to me in a way that I had never percieved before. > If we don't get our act together and stop tearing each other new assholes > at every opportunity, we're (ALL) going to get caught with our pants down. If UFOlogy wants to engage the general public, they must have representatives and spokesmen who have creditability. > Completely unprepared to deal with any "outside agency or force" because we > are not together or unified among ourselves. > Facts: > 1. UFO sightings are up dramatically all over world. > 2. Phoenix mass sighting: Everyone's been so busy arguing whether it was > "real" or not that the question about "what it means" has escaped everyone. > The Phoenix sighting that some of us have been jumping up and down about > was a "Demonstration" folks, and a heavy duty "wake up call!" > Let's stop acting like the "Donner party" and get our act together. I'm > willing to do what I can to help bring some unity and coherence to the UFO > community. It will take the will and determination of many to bring it > into reality. I'm a firm believer in the axiom that we, "create our own > reality, in agreement and conjunction with one another!" > What kind of world do we want to create guys? Now _that_ is worthy of some > serious thought. > I got to meet, listen to, and shake Bob Deans hand while I was in Roswell. > More important to me, I got to look into the man's eyes. I'm not Jean Dixon, > and I _could_ be completely wrong, but I got the strong sense that Bob is > an honest and sincere guy. As any American (or fair minded person) should, > Bob Dean is to be considered _completely_ innocent of perpetrating any lies > or deceptions until evidence to the contrary has been presented, and the > judgement of his peers has been heard. (In an open hearing where Bob Dean > can answer any charges and face his accusers directly). > Least ways that's what I thought we were all about. This "internet > character assassination" without the presentation of "evidence" in > accompanyment is new to me man! Anybody can say anything about anybody. > Without proof, it's all just so much 'rap' Jan, I'll tell you like Cuba > Gooding told Tom Cruise, "Show me the money!" <G> John, you also selective dealt with my post. Quotes attributed to Dean said: 1. He was in North Viet Nam during his Service. I doubt if his Service record reflects that. So once again why bring it up? It is another way to damage creditability. 2. He said he got good assignments because of his Top Secret clearance. This is incorrect. Having a clearance or the ability to get a clearance is a factor. However, that is not how people are selected for assignment. 3. Cosmic Top Secret is not a clearance. It is access. It is not annotated on a clearance form, personnel records, and once a person leaves a unit it ceases to exist. Dean has misrepresented that constantly. Others on this and other lists have made comments that security oaths are technically not binder. Or the best one I heard is Corso: His oath was to his boss so when the General died Corso was release. If you believe the system works like that, I have a bridge; I can sell you cheap. As far as oaths not being binding: go home tonight and tell your spouse you think that marriage vows are fine, but you think that you ought to be able to seek out the favors of other attractive members of the opposite sex....or decide that the mortgage covenant on your home is wrong and stopping making payments... Oaths are indeed important that they are a demonstration of our honor. As a 25 year Service member, I resent the crass misuse and misrepresentation of the Service. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Paul Hill Question From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:16:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:10:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Paul Hill Question > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:23:34 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> > Subject: Paul Hill Question > hello fellow list members, > i was curious as to the circumstances surrounding the publishing of > "Unconvential Flying Objects, a scientific analysis" . is there a >reason the > book was published after his death? i think it is a fine work, >worthy of much > praise. > james rhodes Interesting question. Does anyone know the answer? I assumed that he died while he was waiting for it to be released. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix = lots of money From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:10:14 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:14:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix = lots of money I atteneded the Hoagland Schpeil and some of it was interesting and some boring. They pitched the "Free Masons" quite a bit. In the opinion of many Vance Davis was long and boring but he's an interesting man and not a Pro speaker and comes off sincere. Hoagland is something else! Not a hair out of place and an excellent speaker of 19.5. I doubt 19.5 had anything to do with the mass sightings. Most people were out looking at the Hale-Bopp during that time. He had some nice big screen tv's, live radio hookups and appeared to be a BONO/ZOOTV wannabe. It was different, it was cool. It was obvious that he did "clean up" in Phoenix grossing a small fortune. Just to let people know about how much it looks like this. Estimated... 1,500 people at $20 dollars on Sunday =$30,000 1,500 people at $45 dollars on Monday =%67,500 _______________________________________________ Total gross = $97,500 Not to mention it was videotaped for massive cassette sales later. His circus must cost some money to finance also, but the fact is this proves that a few people in the UFO business are making lots of money. I refer to people like this as "after math consultants" They come in after some type of UFO case and use their names to cash in on the hype. Usually they write books or make videos and know little about the cases their making money off of. I'm not saying there aren't good UFOlogists who investigate and do exhausting reports, like Linda Moulton Howe for example... I just think its insulting for some "expert" whos been making predictions for weeks that are not panning out. To come to my neck of the woods and explain what its all about while making over a 100 grand (big bucks) and never had talked to any witnesses before arriving, or watching the videos. It was simply an orichstrated money making event. I'll had already planned a nearly all day stake out at the UFO hotspot (the Estrella mountains) 3 1/2 weeks ago to be done on July 20. If something happens we'll capture it on film and video and release it on the net. Hoagland had better hope "something big" happens or his hyperdimensional pyschics will look bad. I hope the best for the rich dude. Just wish he cared about what he's making money off of.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Secrets of Literary History From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:09:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:52:43 -0400 Subject: Secrets of Literary History The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. > From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] > Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 13:55:47 -0400 (EDT) > Fwd Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 14:00:36 -0400 > Subject: Brookesmith Smears Marcel A recent cursory glance at the UpDates Website suggests that most of this gripe by David Rudiak about my treatment of poor victimized Jesse Marcel has been dealt with by others, notably John Stepkowski, while I was away and off-line. For which thanks; which all and sundry may take as notice that I'm not going to rehearse the whole business again. Now Mr Rudiak may think what he likes of my report of Robert Todd's research (duly acknowledged on page 156 of my book, so altogether honestly "swiped directly from Robert Todd"), and call me a liar if he likes to do that too, since I suppose it must make him a happier man than if he did not, and I am all for happiness if you can find it. But when he suggests none too subtly that I am a plagiarist I do raise an eyebrow. Mr Rudiak may consider the following to be disinformation. He is entitled to his opinion, although it does not follow, from that, that his opinion is worth very much. I first became acquainted with Reuben Stone (which is not his real name either, by the way) in somewhat noisy and alarming circumstances in October 1973. We found we shared several interests, from the foolishness of fighting tank battles without infantry support to the genius of Francis Child and Cecil Sharpe, and remained in touch over the ensuing years. Neither of us then was much interested in the paranormal, but Reuben was intrigued by what he read in The Unexplained partwork (published 1980-1983) that I edited, and he became something of a believer. In 1991 I was asked to find a writer for a five-volume "promo" book series on the paranormal and thought he might be interested in the job. He was. But the writing/publishing schedule demanded more time than he anticipated, and I agreed to pen the UFO volume in the series for him, on the understanding that I might use the material in my own work in due course. I also gave him some material (notably a "ghost story" from my father's book about his days on square-rigged sailing ships in the 1920s, and another concerning my old mum, the formidable and indestructible Dowager Duchess, who appears in pseudonymous guise as "Mrs Martha Beckwhyte", plus a few other previously unpublished stories that I was hearing at the time) for other books in the series. It was not an altogether happy commission for me, in that the brief strictly maintained that a skeptical line should be taken in only one "story" in ten, but the money was reasonable for the effort involved, and I had the time, the interest and the references, and he did not. Not many people know that. Mr Rudiak may or may not find brightness in a drab, wretched existence by fulminating about people who, he considers, don't do their research properly and parrot opinions and so forth. Mr Rudiak is as black a pot as ever sat next to a suntanned kettle. All he had to do was ask me what my relationship with Reuben Stone was, and I would have told him. But he didn't ask. And so he has not been saved the embarrassment of being made to look, through his intemperate insinuations, not entirely unlike an incompetent - and what is worse, an ill-mannered - oaf. I shall *not* be held responsible for a sudden increase in the incidence of black helicopters buzzing Mr Rudiak's residence in the next few weeks, although news of such a phenomenon would not surprise us at "higher headquarters". We should, however - for a reasonable pecuniary consideration - be glad to exchange his wreckage for someone else's. Yours &c Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza * The pen name "Peter Brookesmith" is a registered trademark of Mendoza Tentacular Enterprises Corporation SA, Madrid, Spain "A friend of the devil is a friend of mine"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:28:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >Date: 97-07-16 20:00:16 EDT >From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:29:09 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >At 11:42 AM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article [text deleted for brevity] >>We've got to clean house folks, guys like Hoagland (for all the attention >>they get) are just 'camera whores' in the end. He is hurting the >>credibility of a good solid case like the one in Phoenix by attaching an >>'Oral Roberts' style, (if Ahh don't get nine million dollahs by noon, de >>Good Lawd is goina strike me deyad) quality to them. Ya gotta love a guy >>like that! [more deleted] >Good points. However, I'm not sure how you "clean house" when you have no >standards to define proper and improper "behavior". People complain about >politicians, who by definition are elected at the whim of the people. Here >we are complaining about the actions of a few who are being watched (or >listened to) because of their notoriety, rather than their expertise. As >long as we watch (or listen), they'll remain in the limelight. The fault, >unfortunately, is ours. How about we eliminate all those who have been convicted of felonies? How about we eliminate all those who have inflated their credentials? How about we eliminate all those who have been caught lying about their backgrounds, their employment or their accomplishments? Seems to me that this would be a good starting point. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:38:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:12:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 7/16/97 10:08 AM: > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:13:51 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > Although some people speculate the circles are the imprints left by > alien landing craft, more plausible explanations include human > pranksters and a natural phenomena called ion plasma vortices, which are > brief, intense flashes of microwave energy that are drawn toward the > Earth by magnetic fields. I couldn't find a single valid physics reference to "ion plasma vortices", which, based on the description above, I frankly find much harder to accept than ET UFOs. One wonders where they came up with this. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Paul Hill Question From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:49:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:18:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Paul Hill Question >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:16:06 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Paul Hill Question >> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:23:34 -0500 (CDT) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> >> Subject: Paul Hill Question >> hello fellow list members, >> i was curious as to the circumstances surrounding the publishing of >> "Unconvential Flying Objects, a scientific analysis" . is there a >> reason the book was published after his death? i think it is a fine >> work, worthy of much praise. >> james rhodes >Interesting question. Does anyone know the answer? I assumed that he >died while he was waiting for it to be released. >Regards, >Don Ledger If someone has the details, I would invite their input. I seem to recall that Paul Hill's papers were found by his daughter after his death. I don't believe that he ever intended for them to be published, but his daughter thought it was something that other's might find of interest. She made a handful of photocopies and showed up at a UFO Symposium (I believe in Richmond, VA) and found that there were many who wanted copies. At that point I guess the decision to publish it was born, and you have seen the result.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 16 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 05:20:13 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:28:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon >If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to read the Air >Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ >What doesn't seem fair to me is that afters years of research some of the >most respected ballon theorists like Karl Pflock, Robert Todd, Kal Korff and >others that came up with theories and conclusions that were grounded in >reality have been more or less pissed on by the Air Force's most current >report which is clearly a fictionalized account of a still highly >controversial incident. I'm speaking of people here that have done extensive >research, know the data, and are aware of witness accounts unlike the Richard >Weaver who appears to have forgotten what real research is. From what I have >heard so far the only researcher to support the ballon theory that endorsed >the Air Force's new story wholeheartedly was Phil Klass (surprise, surpise). If that is so, then I don't see why anyone is still taking this guy seriously. Is Phil Klass getting senile already or is that label only allowed to be used on the hundreds or Roswell witnesses that are senile according to Klass? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: meccam@erols.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:07:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:18:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 13:36:00 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:54:56 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - Robert Dean > > >Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:55 -0700 > > >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > > >Subject: Robert Dean > > >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Big snip> > The NATO Top Secret document Dean talks about either exists, > or it doesn't. If it exists, it is protected lawfully and > by Dean's oath. He reports he decided to break his oath. > If it does not, exist then he is a teller of tall tales. That is > normally said to be a lair. I did not say he was was a lair or an oath breaker , but he is one or the other. > Dean defines the dilemma. He sets it up. I just pointed it out. > Do you often shot the messenger? > What I did say: is that in either case his creditability is damaged. > As far as oaths not being binding: go home tonight and tell your > spouse you think that marriage vows are fine, but you think that > you ought to be able to seek out the favors of other attractive > members of the opposite sex....or decide that the mortgage > covenant on your home is wrong and stopping making payments... > Oaths are indeed important that they are a demonstration of > our honor. Wait just a damn fool minute, Jan - ever read 1984? Ever live in a totalitarian state? Do you think the government is telling us most, or even some, of what they know about ETs? Do you think that is justified, allowing people to live entire lives in a totally false sense of reality, focused on their retirement cottage and RV? Ever think of what your decisions would have been, let's just take an extreme case, if you were a dutiful German soldier assigned to death camp duty? Would you honor your oath and Heil Hitler, or go AWOL? Socrates drank the hemlock, living to the end the laws of Athens, but most of us believe in a higher inner standard of integrity. Once it becomes clear that our allegiance was to a cardboard cutout with non-benevolent motives, one's own conscience must be one's guide - do you not believe that there may be deeper criteria for honor than the laws of one country? I can't prove whether he read that document or not, and if he turned out to be a total sham I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. However, since the experience re-oriented his entire life from that time on, I'd tend to agree with John Mack's statement that in evaluating the reality of cases, he gives most emphasis to the emotional impact it has on the person. SOMETHING made a huge impact on Bob Dean's entire world view and started him on an impassioned 30 year study of the subject. He faked 30 years of great effort and dedication simply to pull the wool over your eyes or grab a few moments on the stage? Another alternaitve may be that Bob Dean obeyed a higher law, or can't your perspective stretch beyond one single country and its limited controlling viewpoint? How 'bout trying on the view that he knew himself to be a global citizen, and judged it best for the greater good to reveal what he knew, sincerely believing it to be the truth? How 'bout looking upwards and outwards to the greater realities and the universe at large before you presume to judge people? I don't know about you, but considering these arguments academically it is always preferable to advance counter-arguments about a philosophy or system from within - attacks from without, personal attacks or refusal to entertain the assumptions from which the person is advancing theories, is a pretty cheap shot and unworthy of an open-minded person. I prefer to take in what an author or speaker is saying, accept their assumptions, suspend disbelief while learning what they have to say, contemplate the implications of their information and point of view, and then let the conclusions take form gradually over time. That results in saying "I can't verify, but if it's true, then...." alot when asked what I think about this one or that one's stories or credibility. So far as I know, no one in this field is infallible, and no one singly has the Total Perspective. It's a long patient work to piece it all together - we may never achieve it. We weren't in the vault. We didn't get abducted along with Linda Cortile. We weren't witnesses to the crashed Roswell craft. Even the perfect researcher cannot be everywhere at once - humans are not yet omnipresent or multi-dimensional. Deciding who to believe, and how much to believe, is a difficult and ongoing task. I do draw conclusions, however. Example: I heard Whitley Strieber speak for the second time in Roswell, have read all of his books carefully, and have visited his web site a lot. After hearing him in Roswell, it was clear to me that he has nothing further to teach me. (If he wants to get back in the thick of things, then instead of publishing a book full of other people's letters, as interesting as that may be, I think he should move back to upstate New York where most of the major events occurred! :)). Again, I have no way to verify Bob Dean's truthfulness or the lack of it, but what I did get from his talk is a strong sense of good intentions and a feeling that he was a caring person - did not pick up deceit or "fame freak" vibes. I suspend judgement about the source of his claims, and would suggest to you that you don't need to drag him through the mud. People will make up their own mind about him in their own time. Errol runs a great list, but some members just cannot seem to resist spitting venom like a cobra as if everyone but themselves are prey, all in the name of seeking the truth. Go figure! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:43:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:38:45 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 7/16/97 10:08 AM: > > From: RSchatte@aol.com > > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:13:51 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > > Although some people speculate the circles are the imprints left by > > alien landing craft, more plausible explanations include human > > pranksters and a natural phenomena called ion plasma vortices, which are > > brief, intense flashes of microwave energy that are drawn toward the > > Earth by magnetic fields. > I couldn't find a single valid physics reference to > "ion plasma vortices", which, based on the description above, > I frankly find much harder to accept than ET UFOs. One wonders where > they came up with this. > Mark Cashman This is the "solution" to crop circles pushed by Dr. W. C. Leavengood of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory of Grass Lake, MI. Although he's done a lot of good work in examining peculiarities of bent-over stems from numerous crop-circle formations in the past 5 years, and identifying anomalies that can't be hoaxed, it seems totally wacky to assume that some natural phenomenon labeled "ion plasma vortices" caused all those intricate patterns (hoaxes excepted) and prefers England and didn't start operating until around the 1970s. He ought to call it "UFOs" instead, and be done with it. But by calling the source mechanism "ion plasma vortices" he has been able to publish a few papers about it in peer reviewed journals. One is in _Physiologia Plantarum_ 92 (1994), pp. 356-363. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:51:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:11:16 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > >Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > >Date: 97-07-16 20:00:16 EDT > >From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:29:09 -0400 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > >At 11:42 AM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote: > >>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > [text deleted for brevity] >>>We've got to clean house folks, guys like Hoagland (for all the >>>attention they get) are just 'camera whores' in the end. He is >>>hurting >>>the credibility of a good solid case like the one in Phoenix >>>by >>>attaching an 'Oral Roberts' style, (if Ahh don't get nine million >>>dollahs by noon, de Good Lawd is goina strike me deyad) quality to >>>them. >>>Ya gotta love a guy like that! >>>John Velez ========================================================================== >[more deleted] >>>>Good points. However, I'm not sure how you "clean house" when you have >>>>no standards to define proper and improper "behavior". People complain >>>>about politicians, who by definition are elected at the whim of the >>>>people. Here we are complaining about the actions of a few who are >>>>being watched (or listened to) because of their notoriety, rather than >>>>their expertise. As long as we watch (or listen), they'll remain in >>>>the limelight. The fault, unfortunately, is ours. >>>>Steven Kaeser ========================================================================== >How about we eliminate all those who have been convicted >of felonies? How about we eliminate all those who have >inflated their credentials? How about we eliminate all those >who have been caught lying about their backgrounds, their >employment or their accomplishments? Seems to me that >this would be a good starting point. >KRandle ========================================================================== Hi Kevin, Steven, All, I don't think that a 'formal set of standards' is necessary in order to distinguish a "serious" research person (whether degree'd or not) from charlatans that do nothing but muddy the waters and fatten their bank accounts. Kevin's point although severe, just may be what the doctor ordered. Companies run background checks on potential employees. He's also correct in the sense that there's absolutly no reason that an honest man should fear such an examination before he presents his material publicly. The problem with it is that it smacks of witch hunts, McCarthyism, and censorship. I believe its more a matter of consciousness raising, one of simply _demanding the best_ from those we put into positions of influence or authority. And besides, we don't have to! These individuals stick out like sore thumbs and will eventually fall from their own gravity. Not everyone is as stupid or gullible as they assume. (Contrary to what he may believe), I hold Kevin Randle in a position of high respect in terms of the quality of the mans work. (In spite of the fact that I disagree with his views on abduction and he with mine) His consistent and consciencious efforts over many years have earned him that respect. Sad to say, not so for most others who are just as prominent and listened to (moreso than Kevin in many cases) and who contribute absolutely nothing of value. That's the "dead weight" I'm talking about. Randle has _added_ to the database, Bell and Hoagland _use it_ as a means of self agrandisment and to line their pockets. ie; Toms' $90,000+ estimated take for the dynamic duos two day stint in Phoenix. (Even after expenses, it's a 'rock star' payday!) That's why I went after Hoagland and Bell with such vengence. If they want to turn a buck fine, this is America after all, but to (use) a case like Phoenix (where honest and decent poeple only want some answers) for a springboard because it's been in the news, and because Hoagland wants to to use every media opportunity in order to win new converts to his hooey. His new tack/image (in case you haven't noticed) appears to be openly "paranormal." No more emphasis on "hard science" or his background with NASA, now he's freaking "Nostrahoagland" predicter of future events. I'm waiting for guys like Hoagland, Mack, and others to apply for non-profit status so they can finally don sacramental robes and found New Age churches. (Sunday Placard: 11:00 AM Get your paradigm shifted!) At least with the robes and candles it'll be much easier to tell the cowboys from the indians! Instead of clerical collars or expensive backgound checks we could just put bells on em so we know when they're coming. John Velez :) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:55:04 -0400 Subject: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted Dear Friends, I am preparing a comprehensive bibliography devoted to two main subjects : 1) German Secret Weapons of WWII 2) The so-called "UFO/Nazis" legend (mainly related to the alleged German "saucer" projects). I have collected a lot of references and got some invaluable help from some international UFO buffs. Yet most of them are related to books, while I know by sure there are plenty of magazine articles buried somewhere dealing with both subjects (and especially #1). I got the same experience from the Italian scene, where there are at least 20 different illustrated articles published during the '50s and '60s in aviation and space magazines. In order to make the bibliography as complete as possible I am asking th e help of every member of this list. Those interested should be so kind to prepare a list of all the magazine articles he owns or knows about both subjects above, possibly under this form: Author (year of pubblication), Article Title, Magazine Name, Volume/Number/Pages or Date/Pages. Sources can be any kind of UFO/occult/aviation/space/historical or gener ic magazine. Entries from booklets or other little-knwon books would be appreciated too. Needless to say all contributors will receive a copy of the final bibliography file, as soon as it will be available. I am also very much interested in newsclippings dealing with both subjects. Especially during the early '50s there have been a lof of newspapers publishing stories about self-claimed WWII German officers or "inventors" reporting projects or even real Nazi saucers. Such stories have been reprinted several times during the '60s and, less often, the '70s If any of you could help me also in collecting references with short abstracts (and copies too) of them, it would be really great. All the best with you, folks ! Maurizio Verga ************************************** Maurizio Verga BIT WOLF - Divisione di WOLF GROUP SpA centralino 031-33301 tel. diretto 031-3330205 fax 031-3330211 e-mail: mverga@wolf.it http://www.wolf.it **************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 06:48:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:56:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:11:16 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article [text deleted for brevity] >How about we eliminate all those who have been convicted >of felonies? How about we eliminate all those who have >inflated their credentials? How about we eliminate all those >who have been caught lying about their backgrounds, their >employment or their accomplishments? Seems to me that >this would be a good starting point. >KRandle I'm not sure how the call for Congressional Hearings will ever become reality if we have to eliminate most of the politicians under those strict guidelines . . . . <g> Okay, Okay, it was a cheap shot. It appears that since we don't have "evidence" other than annedotal hearsay, it is felt that the individual's "charactor" is a deciding factor. This would make sense if we can assume that those of GOOD charactor will always be truthful, and those of BAD charactor tell only lies. I think these are key points one must take into account when reviewing the statements made, but perhaps not the only factors. I don't want to get into specifics, but at least one "researcher", whose statements and evidence have been identified as nonsense, has faded completely into the background. This occured naturally, as individuals simply stopped listening to him, which appears to be the natural process of this genre. But this is an individual (grassroots) phenomenon. Unlike major sciences, there is no peer review process that has become generally acceptable to the public to make these kinds of judgement calls in this genre. Since there are so many individual "viewpoints" regarding the verious tangents of this genre, it would be difficult to imagine a common thread that could pull them together into a focused group. The goal here is a good one, and I'm not in favor of lending credibility to those who are clearly "off the wall". But, whenever I hear the call to get rid of those who are hurting the genre, I worry about who is going to make that value judgement for me and define my beliefs. Steve PS- I'm working my way through your new book "Conspiracy of Silence", and find it quite interesting. I would be interested in your views of Clifford Stone's new book "UFOs Are Real", which I have just finished and seems to parallel your book fairly well.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix & Vance Davis From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:58:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix & Vance Davis >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix =lots of money >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:10:14 EST >I atteneded the Hoagland Schpeil and some of it was interesting and some >boring. They pitched the "Free Masons" quite a bit. In the opinion of many >Vance Davis was long and boring but he's an interesting man and not a Pro >speaker and comes off sincere. Is this the same Vance Davis who was one of the "Gulf Breeze 6", US military folk who went AWOL from Germany to hunt the antichrist in Gulf Breeze after receiving coded mesages warning them of his arrival there? How long has he been on the UFO circuit?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: RTodd12191@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:14:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon < From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] < Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) < To: updates@globalserve.net < Subject: Bursting the Balloon < If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to < read the Air Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ > Unfortunately for Jared Anderson, the full text of the new Air Force report is not available on the internet. I must assume, therefore, that Mr. Anderson has not yet seen and read the full report, and is writing out of ignorance. What a surprise. < What doesn't seem fair to me is that afters years of research < some of the most respected ballon theorists like Karl Pflock, < Robert Todd, Kal Korff and others that came up with theories < and conclusions that were grounded in reality have been more < or less pissed on by the Air Force's most current report which < is clearly a fictionalized account of a still highly controversial < incident. I'm speaking of people here that have done extensive < research, know the data, and are aware of witness accounts < unlike the Richard Weaver who appears to have forgotten what < real research is. From what I have heard so far the only < researcher to support the ballon theory that endorsed the Air < Force's new story wholeheartedly was Phil Klass (surprise, < surpise). I still have yet to hear whether some of the other < ballon buffs think about the new Air Force report. I haven't seen < a lot of back peddling nor have I seen cries of support. > I take offense that an alien spaceship buff like Jared Anderson would claim that a report he hasn't even read "more or less pissed on" my research into the New York University (NYU) ("Mogul") balloon explanation for the debris recovered on the Foster Ranch, especially when the report he hasn't even bothered to read reaffirms the findings of the.first report issued in 1994. Even more troubling is Anderson's assertion that the new report is a "fictionalized account of a still highly controversial incident." I do, however, admire his courage for speaking his mind out of nearly total ignorance. THAT takes guts. Strangest of all is that alien spaceship buff Anderson apparently hasn't considered the possibility that the tall tales told by a number of supposed Roswell "witnesses" are nothing but "fictionalized account[s] of a still highly controversial incident," which is "still highly controversial" largely due to the tall tales told by the supposed "witnesses" to the "alien" bodies. Apparently Roswell alien spaceship buffs believe only the Air Force is capable of telling lies. < How have some of the ballon theorists reacted to the report? < Jared. This "ballon [sic] theorist" has only one problem with the new Air Force report, and that is that it is far too timid. Apparently in a misguided effort to avoid calling certain U.S. citizens liars, the Air Force advanced the preposterous notion that these individuals INNOCENTLY "confused" their real observations of Air Force balloon/dummy recovery operations with the Roswell non-event. To the extent that these supposed "witnesses" are telling ANY part of the truth, I find the information in the new Air Force report to be a plausible explanation for their supposed recollections. I do NOT believe, however, that these supposed witnesses are INNOCENTLY "confused." I believe these "witnesses" saw an opportunity to jump on the Roswell bandwagon, and earn a page in the history books (and maybe a few bucks beside), so they molded whatever real observations they may have had of real Air Force balloon/dummy recovery operations to conform to the Roswell myth. For example, based on Gerald Anderson's "testimony" and the contents of the new Air Force report, it is difficult to believe that Anderson didn't, at some point, witness an Air Force balloon/dummy recovery operation. He described the procedures in detail, procedures that didn't even exist in 1947. His descriptions are more than mere coincidence. Likewise, the new Air Force report offers a credible explanation for the muddled. second-hand stories attributed to Stanton Firedman's beloved Barney Barnett. I hold out NO hope that the UFO "research" field will evaluate the new Air Force report fairly. My lack of hope may have something to do with the fact that so many alien spaceship buffs rejected the report without even having read it, which is zealotry at its worst. I agree that, in being too timid to call a spade a spade, the Air Force did not enhance their own credibility. Instead of saying he had no explanation for why supposed Roswell "witnesses" were "confused" about dates by seven or eight years, Colonel Haynes should have said, "Well, did you ever consider the possibility that the witnesses were lying?" Perhaps he thought the press was intelligent enough to arrive at that conclusion on their own, without having it spelled out for them. Perhaps the Air Force's only sin was in overestimating the intelligence of the press. So, if anyone really needs a good laugh, I recommend Jared Anderson's recent posting. Robert Todd
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Jul 97 09:36:52 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:29:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 17:40:24 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Have you actually examined any film (as opposed to video) showing the >image of the "alien"? >It's a simple (but fundamental) question, Bob. Yes or no? How about that gray area between yes and no? Not all questions have such simple, black or white, answers. >If not, how can you as a photo expert continue to make the categorical >assertion that the AA "film" is not a "recently crafed fake?" Vince, in case it has not occurred to you, I can do anything I damned well want. I don't need your permission, approval, support, etc. In fact, frankly I don't give a damn about you or what you think. If you really want to know how and why I reach my conclusions, then attend one of the talks I give, get the video, or read my forthcoming magazine article. Otherwise, in the immortal words of W.C. Fields, "Go away, kid, you bother me." Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:40:08 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:43:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:38:45 -0700 > > Although some people speculate the circles are the imprints left by > > alien landing craft, more plausible explanations include human > > pranksters and a natural phenomena called ion plasma vortices, which are > > brief, intense flashes of microwave energy that are drawn toward the > > Earth by magnetic fields. > I couldn't find a single valid physics reference to > "ion plasma vortices", which, based on the description above, > I frankly find much harder to accept than ET UFOs. One wonders where > they came up with this. They got it from the writings of Paul Devereux and Peter Brookesmith (with help from Michael Persinger), who created the concept in order to explain UFOs as mysterious "natural" phenomena. However, since I've been labelled as "grumpy" by this faction for making comments such as yours, I'll leave it to them to educate you in this alchemy. Heathen! (Use the UpDates Search engine at http://www.ufomind.com/search/ to find earlier flames/posts on this topic, looking for Devereux's name in particular.) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Paul Hill Question From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:44:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Paul Hill Question >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:23:34 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> >Subject: Paul Hill Question > >hello fellow list members, > >i was curious as to the circumstances surrounding the publishing of >"Unconvential Flying Objects, a scientific analysis" . is there a reason the >book was published after his death? i think it is a fine work, worthy of >much praise. > >james rhodes James, The book was published by his daughter. I believe she stated that he felt it was inappropriate to publish while he was still working for NASA. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:03:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon >How have some of the ballon theorists reacted to the report? My initial reaction to the second Air Force report, given on national TV and to a number of leading newspapers, was that those on both sides of the Roswell non-UFO crash would find it laughable. This statement, which I very much regret having made, was based on what I'd been told the report contained and concluded. I hadn't yet read the report when I opened my mouth (ah, the siren temptations of the network-news video cam). I have now closely read the report and am convinced it provides "the rest of the story"--which is by no means just dummies, not by a long shot. It is true the remarkably detailed correlation of the anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations with the stories of such characters as Gerald Anderson and the late Jim Ragsdale (and perhaps even that of Frank Kaufmann/Steve MacKenzie/"former Roswell Army Air Field intelligence operative"/Joseph Osborne/Mr. X) is startling and convincing to anyone with an open mind. But it has been clear for some time those guys were/are spinning tall tales, so this information is "only" nice-to-have, tidy-things-up stuff. Of far greater importance is section 2 of the book, "Reports of Bodies at Roswell Army Air Field Hospital." Here the origins of ALL the key elements of Glenn Dennis' experience at the hospital and its aftermath are explained--the bodies (very real ones), their condition, odd appearance, and the overpowering smell emanating from them; the "missing" nurse; the strange "wreckage" in the back of the army ambulance; the pediatrician; the removal of the bodies to another facility; the "mysterious" doctors who examined the bodies; the redheaded captain, not to mention the redheaded colonel of another version of Dennis' tale; the alleged threats to Dennis; "Slats" Wilson; etc., etc., etc. Oh, and as a bonus, the basis for Frankie Rowe's second/third/nth-hand story of a live alien being led into the base hospital may also be explained. The factual basis for the Roswell crashed-saucer myth we have all come to love/loath has now been exhaustively established. The debris which started it all was from Project Mogul (not theory, fact). The cover up which incubated the rebirth of the story was carried out to protect Mogul. The tales of bodies--none of which surfaced until the late 1970s, triggered and encouraged quite innocently [I think] by certain eager "investigators"--were, to put it politely, embellishments of real experiences of those who related them or which they heard from others. (In the later category is the original and seminal Roswell-linked body story, that attributed to the late Barney Barnett, first made public in 1980 in Berlitz and Moore's ROSWELL INCIDENT and in 1989 dramatically presented on "Unsolved Mysteries.") In the words of the AF report subtitle: Case closed. Now let's get on with some real UFO research. -- Karl Pflock --------- P.S. Errol, it was great meeting you in Roswell. Wish we'd had more time to chat. Another time, I hope.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:15:24 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:58:47 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:12:33 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes >To: updates@globalserve.net >Monday July 14 7:03 PM EDT >UFO faces are ingrained in human genes ------------------ snip ------------ > >Malmstrom said, ``My estimation is that it's a universal thing. That >face is a template ingrained into the brain back in the facial >recognition area.'' >Malmstrom said ``human beings are prewired to generate and recognize >that particular UFO face with the large eyes and the triangular head. >That is the template in the hypothesis that a baby is born with _ and >from which a baby learns, over a period of months, to recognize other >faces.'' ------------------------------------ Comment: There are no hints, to say nothing of evidence in scientific literature (perception and learning theory) which would support that hypotheses. Literature supports shaping of visual perception during the first 8 to 10 hours of life (several publications in 1988 and 1989 based on results and reports from the Max-Planck-Institut of Biophysical Chemistrie Goettingen/ Germany). Alf Breull Dipl.-Psych. Hannover Medical School Department of General Practice Area: Fundamental Psychological and Psychosomatic Research and Statistical Methods
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 11:16:41 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:59:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:47:25 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Subject: Alleged Roswell Debris - Peer Review? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments... >>From: "Derrel" <derrel@holman.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: Re: Peer Review. >>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:43 -0500 >This message as intercepted at the Mendoza compound deep in the heart of >the NWO electronic warfare reservation at Ty Bach, Ceredigion contains >9517 characters including routing information. Our cryptoggraphic >programs, including a particularly sophisticated algorhythmic analytic >disassembly language called Plain English, have so far failed to detect >the names and institutions of the "Heavy Weight Scientists" so often >mentioned among Mr Sims's prolix flummery. While few know better than His >Grace how difficult it is to get good help these days, many more enquiring >minds wonder why the Adversary of Mondoz is so reluctant to follow >standard scientific and academic protocol. Some even recall that the last >time they read of a research establishment patronized by Mr Sims, it >turned out to be an organic gardening center, or something similar. (A >lifetime spent in clandestine operations does induce a degree of >cynicism.) Urgent dispatch to His Excellency, Peregrine the Magnificent: Only the Alien Hunter (with his oft-proclaimed super-human powers and "Company" background) presents a threat to my sinister plans for Galactic Domination. I need not remind you that the most dangerous spot in the Universe is the center point between the Alien Hunter and a microphone. Lord Mondoz bids you to unleash your Black Helicopter Psychotronic Ninjas at once! I remain, VINCE I Gnome of Zurich and Supreme Primate, THE NEW WORLD ORDER "C'mon and join the NWO!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:03:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:32:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:51:30 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article [text deleted for brevity] >That's why I went after Hoagland and Bell with such vengence. If they want >to turn a buck fine, this is America after all, but to (use) a case like >Phoenix (where honest and decent poeple only want some answers) for a >springboard because it's been in the news, and because Hoagland wants to >to use every media opportunity in order to win new converts to his hooey. Agreed, but Bell and Hoagland approach this from different perspectives and it may not be fair to lump them together. Bell is an entertainer who (by definition) is seeking out the strange and bizarre, and his primary goal is to increase his audiance share and thus his profits. This is a given, and should surprise no one. I would add that he has also made a point of the fact that he only wants to provide a platform for others to use, and leaves it to his listeners to decide the issue of credibility. >His new tack/image (in case you haven't noticed) appears to be openly >"paranormal." No more emphasis on "hard science" or his background with >NASA, now he's freaking "Nostrahoagland" predicter of future events. >I'm waiting for guys like Hoagland, Mack, and others to apply for >non-profit status so they can finally don sacramental robes and found >New Age churches. I hadn't seen Mack's name mentioned before, but there are other names that could perhaps be mentioned here as well. But with many UFO believers holding on to their beliefs with little more than a foundation of faith, it isn't surprising that the genre often seems to be more of a religion than a scientific inquiry. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Plane Spotting Philip From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 06:08:04 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:16:27 -0400 Subject: Plane Spotting Philip Dear colleagues, Can anyone help me locate drawings, pictures or photographs of the following types of aircraft: USA: F-51 (l940's) F-16 (l990's). UK: RAF Venom jet (l950's). Iran: Iranian Air Force jet (l970's). Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Alfred's Odd Ode #155 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:15:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:18:22 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #155 Apology to MW #155 (For July 17, 1997) I hunt them in castles to which we=92re confined.=20 They hunt me with axes and guns they can find. I play by their rules, and I read their cant press; They don=92t cop to their hatred, this is why you=92re depressed.=20 Think of buying and selling and seeming production. Think infinite clap board of the poorest construction. Think on cheap fluff of possession undear. Think on all the clutter, ponder what you fear. Thinking is the light you=92re wanting =96 what you think=92s sublime. It sharpens at your vision, adds the beat to hearing=92s rhyme. It=92s delicious to the touch, and it smells as smooth as silk It=92s just too cool this alien view, and it=92s cool for any ilk. A person=92s asked me to describe this thing =96 forbidden reading. I tossed off names that dazzled me, the ones that left _me_ bleeding. I should have said more =96 the door was just cracked, So Alan Graham* will step in =96 he will give you some facts. The implications are extreme if insisting that they=92re nothing. If stingy in your gratitude, then you=92re parted from your stuffing! If insisting to give nothing is the flag you rally round Then dig your hole and jump on in, just die and make no sound! And no you can=92t have a new car every year. And _one_ of your homes must be sold in arrears. This orgy of shopping must cool from excess. . . It=92s depleting to our courage, creating spirit we detest! Thinking ignorance is blissful is to miss the cosmic boat --=20 Sliding backwards in cruel time, unasked questions at our throat! The questless fear the questor as they shore their crumbling walls Though the fear is understood, _avoid_ its obstacles and stalls!=20 Why does accomplishment shame us all so? Why aren=92t we infected with Monk Bruno=92s glow? Why is *good* ascribed to God, and why is *bad* ascribed to man? When God has tried to whack us for to stand where we would stand? Cultures and countries adapt well or die. This is why Jews are reviled, or despised. Scattered on wind they maintained their Jewishness, They tolerate life, and make giving their business. We try to achieve intellectual honesty, But tolerate fundamentalist intolerant hypocrisy. We take the short path to appeal to the Christians We let them rule our bedrooms, soon they=92re plotting in my kitchen!=20 We let them burn books that "offend sensibility" We let them take stock in their powerful assembly. They=92re like rabid mice on radio=92s AM, They spread a weave of filthy hate as thick and vile as phlegm. Lehmberg@snowhill.com *Alan Dawson Graham is a square root of Al, and the other half of "Al squared" a think tank of two contributing to the solutions of all the sociological problems faced on this grand globe <g>. Just put us in charge! He would try to tell you the implications of what you would be reading =96 reality as seen through the eyes of Al squared from the vantage point of the Alien View. The only ax he has to grind is an ax of personal responsibility, and an ability to cop to the real world. Also a retired officer, he has seen enough to validate a position rational, prosocial, and inclusive. You=92ll be hearing from him directly in the days ahead. =20 Ultimately Al squared will provide a universe of original material in a multimedia array from a dedicated server. A talk show in real video . . . questions questioned . . . answers answered, music, video, interviews, reviews, and beyond =96 like that. . . show some bleeding interest and it could be up in a month . . . I=92ll get it up, somehow, on my own with no interest _but_ my own, and I=92m not blind to the Freudian thing I just did there, either! Oh =96 by the way =96 has anyone read the lyrics to a Marilyn Manson song? EVER? Well, I read one that was about one of the most beautiful and poignant expressions as has ever graced my sensibility. I think it probable that fundies have over reacted to him in as much as he is likely the living breathing example of rebounded rejection. What=92s mashed down *here* only pops up over *there*, just meaner. And he=92s the one reaching out =96 go figure! --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for offending sensibility.=09 =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Bursting the Balloon From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:15:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:25:53 -0400 Subject: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bursting the Balloon [text deleted] >The factual basis for the Roswell crashed-saucer myth we have all >come to love/loath has now been exhaustively established. The >debris which started it all was from Project Mogul (not theory, >fact). The cover up which incubated the rebirth of the story was >carried out to protect Mogul. The tales of bodies--none of which >surfaced until the late 1970s, triggered and encouraged quite >innocently [I think] by certain eager "investigators"--were, >to put it politely, embellishments of real experiences of those who >related them or which they heard from others. (In the later category >is the original and seminal Roswell-linked body story, that >attributed to the late Barney Barnett, first made public in 1980 in >Berlitz and Moore's ROSWELL INCIDENT and in 1989 dramatically >presented on "Unsolved Mysteries.") Karl- Unless the report can show pictures of the actual debris field, taken at the time, and the actual reports on the incident, then it is yet another suggestion as to what it could have been and not a proven fact. Your belief that the investigators may have "muddied the waters" by allowing their own theories to draw out certain responses from witnesses is also true for those who investigated the recents findings by the Air Force. The Air Force investigators had knowledge as to what they were trying to explain, and were able to research their subject accordingly. Their 1994 report also selectively chose to not address certain testimony, and emphasized only that which helped to prove their point. I would suggest that an unbiased investigation of the Roswell event was performed by the GAO, which could only confirm that the records it needed to proceed had been destroyed. It acknowledged that the Air Force had developed a theory as to the cause, but the GAO didn't endorse it because there was no actual proof that the "MOGUL" explanation was the correct one. It is unbelieveable that all references to the event have been destroyed by the Army or Air Force, and the proof may someday surface to prove that the it was indeed a "MOGUL" balloon that started all this fuss. Until then the debate will continue, and Roswell can rest assured that it's primary tourist attraction will remain lucrative. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:29:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:29:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: 17 Jul 97 09:36:52 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 17:40:24 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>Have you actually examined any film (as opposed to video) showing the >>image of the "alien"? >>It's a simple (but fundamental) question, Bob. Yes or no? >How about that gray area between yes and no? Not all questions >have such simple, black or white, answers. >>If not, how can you as a photo expert continue to make the categorical >>assertion that the AA "film" is not a "recently crafed fake?" >Vince, in case it has not occurred to you, I can do anything I damned >well want. I don't need your permission, approval, support, etc. In >fact, frankly I don't give a damn about you or what you think. >If you really want to know how and why I reach my conclusions, then >attend one of the talks I give, get the video, or read my forthcoming >magazine article. >Otherwise, in the immortal words of W.C. Fields, "Go away, kid, you >bother me." >Bob =========================================================================== Just two cents, please! Not fair Bob! I've had a few head butting sessions with Vince myself, but it's always been taken in the spirit of "constructive arguement" and hopefully is a dialog that is informative/enlightening for the reader. (Even if the dialog does nothing more than reveal the nature and character of the writer! <G>) Vince has a "balls to the wall" way of asking his questions I'll grant you that, but the "kid" as you so disrespectfully refer to him is asking an honest and valid question. He (we, those of us who follow these threads) deserve an answer. We all use this venue to express ourselves, give and recieve information and viewpoints, and simply to share the offering that we bring to the table. I have always felt that answering 'tough questions' (often times couched in tough language) for folks I sometimes didn't even like, is a good way to (put back in/pay back) for the fun and priveledge of being published on this list. Not a huge price. Vince just wants to know if you've actually examined a piece of the original film, or has it just been only video. By itself its not a "loaded" question. It's one that I'd like to hear the answer to, just out of curiosity. And, not because I have any vested interest in the final outcome, but simply to know. I'm sure that many others are curious as well. Another fun thing about this list is "getting it here first!" <EG> So come on Bob, bring your ball back, we need it to play! You and Vince make nice so we can all enjoy the dialog. Vince, tune down the "sphincter factor" when you address Bob or request information from him. Bob, would you _please_ (for all of us) answer Vinces interesting and _quite valid_ question? In the spirit of learning, tu amigo, Juan Velez, Hijo de los OVNI's John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:29:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:37:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: RTodd12191@aol.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:35:21 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bursting the Balloon >< From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >< Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >< To: updates@globalserve.net >< Subject: Bursting the Balloon >< If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to >< read the Air Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ > (snip) >Unfortunately for Jared Anderson, the full text of the new Air Force >report is not available on the internet. I must assume, therefore, >that Mr. Anderson has not yet seen and read the full report, and >is writing out of ignorance. What a surprise. >Colonel Haynes should have said, >"Well, did you ever consider the possibility that the witnesses were >lying?" Perhaps he thought the press was intelligent enough to arrive at >that conclusion on their own, without having it spelled out for them. >Perhaps the Air Force's only sin was in overestimating the intelligence of >the press. Bob, Have (you) ever considered the possibility that the Airforce is lying? I had an opportunity to meet a couple of the folks in Roswell that you feel the Airforce should have summarily labelled liars. They seemed to me to be sweet, ordinary folks that are just trying to do the right thing by coming forward and telling what they know. The military on the other hand has a long and glorious history of outright lies and deception. Just one glaring example: Viet Nam, the "gulf incident" that president Johnson used in order to plunge us deeper into that war was a non-event! Manufactured in order to sell congress a war that only the generals wanted. I lost friends there. That little fib cost us 50,000+ guys! Don't you imagine that the "generals" would covet the kind of technology that UFO's have to offer? Don't you think that they would not only lie, but even go as far as killing in order to protect their exclusive possession of this technology? Whoever controls UFO technology controls the planet. That's how military minds operate, and they would do (anything) to protect what they would view as a clear military advantage over other nations. I don't think that any of the old folks (witnesses) from Roswell have made more than ten cents off any of this, they really have no motivation to lie. The military on the other hand,....you're a bright guy you figure it out. Weather balloons, Mogul balloons, Fugo balloons, crash test dummies from the 50's, at least the witnesses from Roswell are better at maintaining some consistency in their accounts. The Airforce on the other hand has been through more 'wardrobe changes' than Don Johnson during one Miami Vice episode! <G> Tell me _why_ the Airforce felt a need to explain the bodies Bob! Doesn't it bother you that they release a new "Final solution" every two years or so? If there's _lying_ going on my money is with the military. And of course those who champion their position and explanation are going to refer to opposing views as "lies", after all they have their asses and their precious reputations to protect, don't they? For them, I would imagine it's better to go down with the (rapidly sinking) ship than to admit they may have been mistaken,...dumb, just dumb. <EG> John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 14:05:30 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:40:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: 17 Jul 97 09:36:52 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 17:40:24 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>Have you actually examined any film (as opposed to video) showing the >>image of the "alien"? >>It's a simple (but fundamental) question, Bob. Yes or no? >How about that gray area between yes and no? Not all questions >have such simple, black or white, answers. True, not all questions have black/white, yes/no answers. However, Bob, there's not a whit of ambiguity about either my question or your possible reply. Did you examine relevant frames or didn't you? Your continued evasion of this simple fundamental question -- that goes to the crux of your involvement in the AA scam -- can only indicate that you have not personally examined a single frame of film showing the "alien" image. Although your credentials as a photo expert are unimpeachable, until you can report that you have personally examined relevant frames from the AA "film," your involvement in this affair is limited to being either a shameless PR flack for Ray Santilli, and/or to promote your own limited marketability due to your peripheral involvement in this scam. There are no other explanations. [You could lie, of course, and say that you had indeed examined the film -- but that would eliminate the possibility of your weaseling-out when the facts about this scam become known. Shucks, Bob, why bother? Your reputation is already ruined. You'll never be taken seriously in the field of ufology except among overcredulous rubes and nutbars.] >>If not, how can you as a photo expert continue to make the categorical >>assertion that the AA "film" is not a "recently crafted fake?" >Vince, in case it has not occurred to you, I can do anything I damned >well want. I don't need your permission, approval, support, etc. In >fact, frankly I don't give a damn about you or what you think. With responses like this, you apparently don't care what your fellow UpDates subscribers think either. >If you really want to know how and why I reach my conclusions, then >attend one of the talks I give, get the video, or read my forthcoming >magazine article. Sure, I should waste my time on a "photo expert" offering "expert opinion" on film he won't/can't confirm that he's actually seen. Frankly, I find challenging your ridiculous BS to be much more productive. >Otherwise, in the immortal words of W.C. Fields, "Go away, kid, you >bother me." I suspect I do, Bob. At least I hope so. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:32:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:00:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Robert Dean Jan, it seems to be, is being rather stiff on the question of Robert Dean's oath. > >>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > >>Subject: Robert Dean > >>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > >>Greeting List Members, > >>To deal with Dean as a creditable person one most consider > >>that he is telling us about a Top Secret document that > >> he took an oath to safeguard. > >>It was a "draftee's oath." He was a professional. It wasn't a > >>little oath. And Dean himself talks about how the government is > >>flushing the Constitution of the United States down the toilet. > >>He has done the same to his oath to protect and defend the > >>Constitution if what he says is true. > >>So we are left with two possibilities: Dean is an > >>oath-breaker or a liar. In either case not a very creditable > >>person. Jan's position is simple -- an oath is an oath is an oath, and someone who breaks one is bad. He should recognize, though, that many of us -- without being evil or untrustworthy -- hold more nuanced positions. For instance, what do we call someone who works for a tobacco company, signs a non-disclosure agreement, finds himself doing what he believes is immoral work (research, maybe, on how to addict smokers even more fatally), and goes public with the information he'd pledged not to reveal? I can think of two words for this person. "Whistleblower" is a general term in common use; "hero" might be more fitting. What about Daniel Ellsberg, who revealed secret government documents (the "Pentagon Papers") during during the Vietnam War? He, too, was considered to be a hero by a good proportion of Americans. We've also got a tradition of lawbreaking for higher moral purposes. Draft resisters disobeyed the draft laws during the Vietnam War; Martin Luther King disobeyed many laws in his quest for civil rights. Most of us, I suspect, are law-abiding citizens but make an exception in times of crisis when laws or oaths seem to seriously conflict with morality. To give Jan an admittedly exaggerated example, suppose he'd been a Nazi officer during World War II, and knew that Jews were being exterminated. Would he feel bound to obey whatever oaths he'd sworn, or would he feel justified -- assuming there was some way to do this -- to refuse orders to participate, or to reveal what he knew to the world. How about Soviet and North Korean military officers who defected to the West, presumably in violation of their oaths? Should they simply have stayed home, and continued their service to their tyrannical governments? I don't mean to suggest that defying the American government has quite the same force (even if UFO secrets might be involved!) but I appeal to Jan's good heart and common sense. The situation is not black and white. Surely there are times when breaking a law or an oath is justified; the question is where to draw the line. On that reasonable, law-abiding people are free to disagree. But the absolutist position -- nobody who breaks an oath can be considered a decent human being -- is plainly absurd. One more example. What about John Dean, who testified against Nixon, his boss (whom he'd sworn implicitly or explicity to serve) in the Watergate hearings? Was he an immoral guy? What makes all this funny, in a grimly bittersweet sort of way, is the behavior of high-ranking military and political figures in Washington. They're revealing confidential information to the press every day. The technical term for these revelations is "leaks," and their purpose is often mildly sordid. Let's say I'm a general in the Pentagon, and I feel I'm being outmaneuvered by my military rivals about some question of military policy. I wouldn't think twice about calling a reporter from the Washington Post, and spilling all kinds of secret information off the record over drinks, in order to provoke a front page story describing the policy dispute from my point of view. Against a background like that, Robert Dean's action (assuming, of course, that he's telling the truth) seems remarkably lofty, even noble. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 15:12:09 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:02:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:12:50 -0400 >(EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bursting the Balloon >The factual basis for the Roswell crashed-saucer myth we have all >come to love/loath has now been exhaustively established. The >debris which started it all was from Project Mogul (not theory, >fact). The cover up which incubated the rebirth of the story was >carried out to protect Mogul. The tales of bodies--none of which >surfaced until the late 1970s, triggered and encouraged quite >innocently [I think] by certain eager "investigators"--were, >to put it politely, embellishments of real experiences of those who >related them or which they heard from others. (In the later >category is the original and seminal Roswell-linked body story, that >attributed to the late Barney Barnett, first made public in 1980 in >Berlitz and Moore's ROSWELL INCIDENT and in 1989 dramatically >presented on "Unsolved Mysteries.") Hi Karl, I agree on the credibility of most of the Roswell "eyewitnesses." But don't you think the "flying disk" press release attracted infinitely more attention to events surrounding Mogul than if the Army had simply said nothing at all? How do you explain the absence of negative impact on the careers of Blanchard, Marcel, et al? Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:19:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:12:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:40:08 -0500 (CDT) A propos "ion plasma vortices" allegedly creating crop circles, Chris Rootcrop writes > They got it from the writings of Paul Devereux and Peter > Brookesmith (with help from Michael Persinger), who created > the concept in order to explain UFOs as mysterious "natural" > phenomena. and is hereby invited to attend a brief ceremony at which he will be awarded the Jared Anderson Prize. The trophy consists of a pair of seebackroscope spectacles mounted on a hollowed-out turnip sporting big black wraparound eyes. It is awarded occasionally to those who manage to know all about books and reports they haven't read because they don't like what's inside them. Part of our book, written by contributor Montague Keen, actually spends many pages slaughtering the "research" of "Dr. W. C. Leavengood of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory of Grass Lake, MI" mentioned in > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:46:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska - Keen's piece is based on and developed from the piece he published in Messrs Stacy and Huyghe's very wonderful "Anomalist" No 4. "Ion plasma vortices" *sound* to me like a version of Dr Terence Meaden's theories about the natural formation of crop circles. And personally, I suspect anything much more elaborate than a single solitary circle in crops (and some of them too) is made by human beings - admittedly ones with infra-red vision and a lot of rather nasty beer froth in their beards, but it takes all sorts. Some of my longest telephone calls have been made to crop circle makers and on that basis I guess they count among my better friends. This despite the fact that I really, secretly, *prefer* the notion that the circles are made by millions of hedgehogs engaging one another in synchronised designer sex. O dear facts are confusing. Yours &c P. Mendoza Graduate, MOSSAD Charm School 1975
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Religion & UFO's on Project: watchfire From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 20:28:44 UT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:05:06 -0400 Subject: Religion & UFO's on Project: watchfire Project: watchfire (http://watchfire.msn.com) - hosted by AJS Rayl of Omni Magazine - will be exploring the issues of Religion and it's reaction to UFOs for the next week. There's long been a belief that if extraterrestrial officially landed on Earth, mass chaos would ensue and all institutions, including our religions, would crumble. Religion scholar J. Gordon Melton, director of the Institute for the Study of American Religions, just doesn't see it. In fact, he says, the world's religions are preparing for contact and our religious leaders will help us make the transition into this new world. Streaming video as well text materials are available now in the Briefing Room. On Tuesday, July 22nd at 6pm, PT, there will be a live interview with Melton - via Netshow. Particpants will be able to ask questions. Diana Botsford
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:28:40 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:13:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 05:20:13 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bursting the Balloon >>From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bursting the Balloon >>If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to read the Air >>Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ >>What doesn't seem fair to me is that afters years of research some of the >>most respected ballon theorists like Karl Pflock, Robert Todd, Kal Korff and >>others that came up with theories and conclusions that were grounded in >>reality have been more or less pissed on by the Air Force's most current >>report which is clearly a fictionalized account of a still highly >>controversial incident. Tell me if I've misunderstood anything, but didn't the USAF investigation thought process go along the lines of "We've found nothing that could suggest alien bodies in 1947, but our best guess is this dummies test in the 1950s. Maybe people are mixing the Mogul crash with that, after all this case was only investigated 25 years after the fact - memories are bound to be clouded." I see nothing wrong with this way of thinking. >>I'm speaking of people here that have done extensive >>research, know the data, and are aware of witness accounts unlike the Richard >>Weaver who appears to have forgotten what real research is. From what I have >>heard so far the only researcher to support the ballon theory that endorsed >>the Air Force's new story wholeheartedly was Phil Klass (surprise, surpise). This is the same Phillip Klass who advised _against_ releasing the report because it didn't completely solve the mystery? >If that is so, then I don't see why anyone is still taking this guy >seriously. Is Phil Klass getting senile already or is that label only >allowed to be used on the hundreds or Roswell witnesses that >are senile according to Klass? Klass is extreme, not senile, and on this point you appear to be misguided. Nick Humphries, nickh@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? *** NOTICE NEW E-MAIL - YOU SPAM, YOU DIE! ***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Secrets of Literary History - Brookesmith From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:40:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Secrets of Literary History - Brookesmith >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:09:36 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Secrets of Literary History >To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] >> Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 13:55:47 -0400 (EDT) >>Fwd Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 14:00:36 -0400 >>Subject: Brookesmith Smears Marcel > A recent cursory glance at the UpDates Website suggests that most of >this gripe by David Rudiak about my treatment of poor victimized >Jesse Marcel What Peter Brookesmith wrote was nothing less than a character assassination of Jesse Marcel that went on for several pages in his new book ("UFO, the Government Files"). Would anybody know from reading Brookesmith that Marcel received great praise for his intelligence work and personal integrity in evaluations written AFTER Roswell by commanding officers like Col. Blanchard and Gen. Ramey, both of whom knew what happened at Roswell? Of course not! Brookesmith was simply parroting Robert Todd, and Todd left that out. It was very obvious from reading Brookesmith that he had done no original research at all. He read Robert Todd's hit piece on Marcel, and voila! All of a sudden he was an expert on Marcel's military record and Marcel's deepest psychological motivations. And this from an author who misidentified a photo of Irving Newton (Ramey's weather officer) as being Jesse Marcel in an earlier book. Maybe Brookesmith can explain why such an incompetent, liar, and "fantasist" (Brookesmith's word) would subsequently be transferred to HIGHER intelligence work in the very sensitive, top secret Special Weapons Program, put in charge of a staff that analyzed the latest changes in intelligence on Soviet nuclear capabilities, and then prepared special briefings and wrote special reports for the higher brass. That's all in his military file, along with the excellent evaluations he received for his work, all of it AFTER Roswell. >has been dealt with by others, notably John Stepkowski, > while I was away and off-line. No, not really. He took a stab at it, but presented no real evidence of any of the things you or he accuse Marcel of doing. I'm writing a response to Stepkowski, but it's hard to respond to something that was many dozens of pages long, meandered all over the place, and covered about 100 different topics, only part of it related to Marcel. >For which thanks; which all and sundry may take as notice that I'm not going to >rehearse the whole business again. Nice dodge. To me, this amounts to an admission that you can't or won't defend your own work. > Now Mr Rudiak may think what he likes of my report of Robert > Todd's research (duly acknowledged on page 156 of my book, so > altogether honestly "swiped directly from Robert Todd"), I absolutely DID NOT accuse Brookesmith of plagarizing from Robert Todd, since he clearly acknowledged Todd as his source as he gushed over his "expose'." I accused Brookesmith of parroting his arguments, doing no original research to verify the information, making a number of factual errors, and failing to present a balanced portrait. A quick look at Marcel's personnel file would have told anybody that Todd grossly distorted the contents. There's no excuse, e.g., not mentioning Marcel's evaluations both before and after Roswell, indicating how highly regarded he was by his superior officers. Gen. Ramey called his intelligence work "outstanding" a year AFTER Roswell, and thought he would make a future command officer. Blanchard used phrases like "exceptionally well-qualified," "highly dependable," "superior moral qualities," "highly recommended for intelligence work at higher level." Again this was all written AFTER the Roswell events. Yet according to Brookesmith, Todd, Korff, etc., Marcel was an incompetent intelligence officer who couldn't even identify ordinary materials, and because of some sort of emotional instability and lack of regard for the chain of command, personally issued the crashed disk press release, thus embarrassing his superior officers and the Air Force. It is therefore absolutely amazing that nothing like this shows up in his subsequent evaluations. The Air Force must be a very forgiving organization which deals with its rash and bungling intelligence officers by kicking them upstairs to higher intelligence work. I guess they never heard of the term "security risk" back then. Of course, this is all logically preposterous. That's why I haven't seen one debunker dare to deal with it. >and call me a liar if he likes to do that too, Well, since he insists. In the course of recycling Todd's arguments, Brookesmith did clearly lie about (1) Marcel having no radar tracking experience, and (2) Marcel claiming to be the sole survivor of a plane crash during WWII. Not only are these statements incorrect, they even contradict what Todd wrote. Marcel did in fact have "radar tracking" experience, since he took a month-long radar intelligence course which taught exactly that, among other things. It's very well documented in his record and even acknowledged by Todd. How could Brookesmith have missed that? Todd's accusation that Marcel had no familiarity with radar targets, however, is based on ZERO evidence, nothing more than an assertion apparently based on psychic abilities. Of course, Peter Brookesmith simply parroted Todd's remarks. And Marcel NEVER claimed to be the sole survivor of a plane crash, no matter how badly one might interpret his one brief statement about it. Brookesmith claimed it was the mark of a "fantasist" to say one is the sole survivor (even though Marcel never said any such thing). Interestingly, Todd says exactly the opposite, using the same sort of inane amateur psychoanalysis. After first admitting to having ZERO evidence that Marcel lied about being shot down, Todd asserts Marcel would have claimed to be one of the victims if he could have gotten away with it. So the Marcel debunker's can't even get their psycho-foolishness straight. But I guess when you're debunking, it's a fundamental rule to stake out all positions, no matter how contradictory. That way Marcel would be damned one way or the other no matter what he said or didn't say. >since I suppose it must make him a happier man than if he did not, and I am all for >happiness if you can find it. Character assassination brings such joy into debunkers' lives. Who could be against that? >But when he suggests none too subtly that I am a plagiarist I do raise an eyebrow. I do cop to that. Let's just say that at the moment I wrote this I was very ticked off with Peter Brookesmith over his extremely dishonest handling of Marcel. But I also acknowledged that there might be an innocent explanation for the amazing similarity of UFO accounts in Reuben Stone's and Brookesmith's later book, such as Brookesmith collaborating with Stone on his book (although there's no mention to that effect in Stone's book -- I looked). As it turns out, that's what Brookesmith says happened. > Mr Rudiak may consider the following to be disinformation. He is entitled to his >opinion, although it does not follow, from that, that his opinion is worth very much. > I first became acquainted with Reuben Stone (which is not his real > name either, by the way) in somewhat noisy and alarming circumstances > in October 1973. .. >... I agreed to pen the UFO volume in the series for him, on the understanding that I > might use the material in my own work in due course. >...Not many people know that. So Brookesmith collaborated with Stone, even wrote the UFO section. I accept the explanation as is, even without documentation. Sounds plausible to me. Too bad Marcel didn't get the same consideration. He may have had a few plausible explanations himself. Dead men, however, have a hard time defending themselves. > Mr Rudiak may or may not find brightness in a drab, wretched > existence by fulminating about people who, he considers, don't do > their research properly and parrot opinions and so forth. So perhaps Mr. Brookesmith would care to share the proper research he did on Jesse Marcel before fulminating about him. Did he even bother to read Marcel's military file for himself to see if it was accurately portrayed by Todd? Did he even care? <Bizarre closing rant about black helicopters, etc. deleted> I can understand Peter Brookesmith being angry with me, particularly about the accusation of plagiarism on the Stone book. But when you slice through all the rest of his garish British rhetorical style, you'll find that he doesn't have one thing to say in his defense about what he wrote on Marcel. And that is what 95+% of my original tract was about. [David Rudiak]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:40:06 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:05:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:19:52 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > A propos "ion plasma vortices" allegedly creating crop circles, Chris > Rootcrop writes > > They got it from the writings of Paul Devereux and Peter > > Brookesmith (with help from Michael Persinger), who created > and is hereby invited to attend a brief ceremony at which he will > be awarded the Jared Anderson Prize. The trophy consists of a pair > of seebackroscope spectacles mounted on a hollowed-out turnip sporting > big black wraparound eyes. It is awarded occasionally to those who > manage to know all about books and reports they haven't read because > they don't like what's inside them. Oh, dear, how silly of me. Imagine confusing "ion plasma vortices" which create crop circles as claimed by Levengood et al, and the much more rational "ion plasma vortices" which create earth lights. Even *I* should have been able to tell the difference! > Part of our book, written by contributor Montague Keen, actually > spends many pages slaughtering the "research" of "Dr. W. C. Leavengood > of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory of Grass Lake, MI" mentioned ... and I look forward to reading such! But again, I apologize (see, Paul, I *can* do it!) for thinking that one mysterious natural phenomenon could in any way be equated with another. I will hold my turnip in high regard forever. > P. Mendoza > Graduate, MOSSAD Charm School 1975 C. Rutkowski, CSIS Grumpiness College, Ottawa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:19:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon >How have some of the ballon theorists (e.g., Robert Todd, Pflock, Kal Korff) >reacted to the report? While I cannot speak for Robert Todd or Karl Pflock, here's MY opinion for what it's worth: 1) The USAF is sometimes its' own worst enemy -- I think they did a horrible job at communicating the real, significant message of their report. Here's why: a) Rather than call some of these Roswell alien body "witnesses" liars or other adjectives which are similar and certainly appropriate, the Air Force (like the U.S. media at large) has treated these untruthful bozos with kit gloves. This is unfortunate, because some of these people are NOT telling the truth and need to be called on the carpet for doing so. That's why in my new book, "The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know," I pulled no punches: "spades are called spades" as they say. b) I was on MSNBC ALL DAY off-and-on on July 4, 1997 when they were broadcasting from Roswell and cutting to the Pathfinder landing on Mars. On the show with me were Walter Haut, Colonel Kittinger and Capt. McAndrew. Others who were scheduled to be there to debate the issues (three pro-alien/Roswell advocates including Showtime/Roswell Producer Paul Davids) never showed up, for reasons they will have to explain. At any rate, to make a long story short, I was asked about the Air Force report by MSNBC and stated my opinion that it did not go far enough by its' refusal to call some of much harder on the witnesses. I thought this was an important point and admission to get the Air Force to address and that's why I raised it. 2) The Air Force report that Jared Anderson refers to that's on line is NOT the complete report. Therefore, commentary on it (and subsequent judgement thereof) is inappropriate. One should read the COMPLETE report before making assumptions and passing judgement. 3) Finally, I have been extremely DISAPPOINTED with the media's coverage of Roswell. Hardly any of it was even remotely critical (from an objective cross-examination standpoint of the facts) and it has been pretty brain-dead. The notable exception to this was the Discovery Channel's documentary which brought Professor Charles Moore and Warrant Officer Irving Newton together for the first time. Meeting at Moore's house in New Mexico, the two of them went over some Mogul component and decayed (due to the ultraviolet rays of the sun) balloon debris that Professor Moore still has. Newton CONFIRMED that the debris he saw in Ramey's office was identical to what Moore showed him at his house for the first time. In other words, folks, it WAS Mogul! I am glad that the Discovery Channel aired this documentary...when I last spoke to Professor Moore earlier in February of this year while doing research for my Roswell expose/book, he expressed his concern that they might not air the segment. Although Moore was extremely pleased to finally have met Irving Newton. And as I note in my book, at the end of the chapter where I interviewed Professor Moore, he says he tried to tell Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner that it was Mogul that caused the Roswell saucer myth, but Friedman got up in the middle of their meeting at a hotel in Soccorro, and then accused MOORE of being "part of the cover-up"!! Most peculiar....and VERY revealing. For a commentary on how pathetic and uncritical the media's coverage of Roswell has been, one should read an excellent article by investigative reporter Arthur S. Levine in last week's issue of U.S. News & World Report. The URL/WEB address is: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/970714/14MEDI.HTM 4) Finally, it has been over a month since I last posted anything to this forum. In the interim I have made a lot of progress on my new website. My URLs are www.KalKorff.com and www.TotalResearch.com. My web sites will be "up" in a matter of just a few more days. I mention this, because people like Dave Rudiak and Henny have accused and attacked me for "ducking" their questions. The truth is, I address MOST of Rudiak's comments in my book, and certainly on my new web site with lots of graphics. Since I quickly became the target of everyone's venom because I DARED write a book exposing Roswell, I simply became too overwhelmed to respond to what was more than 400 emails a day. The WEB sites I have spent quite a lot of money on developing and sponsoring are the best way to address my "critics" concerns...and I do just this. As I said before, I am ducking NO ONE, but others can't say the same thing. The UFO field has sunk to new, all-time lows...and we have people like Ray Scamtilli, Richard Hoaxland, Jim DileNoShow, Art $ell and others to "thank" for this. I have learned a lot from having written my Roswell book and for deliberately deciding to solicit Prometheus Books to publish it. This action of mine was deliberate, and it helped "smoke out" those of you who have a religious or other emotional axe to grind regarding Roswell/Prometheus, etc. Since WHEN does the publisher matter...it's the DATA in the book that's important, NOT the publisher. Because of these recent events, I have decided (barring unforseen circumstances) that my next book will be an expose of Mr. Richard Hoagland, his criminal past, etc. On the other hand, I will also continue to focus on efforts to get the U.S. government to release whatever additional UFO documents they possess...and will work with a very small group of UFO researchers to do this. I have no intention on working with some of the more famous "names" in this field because if they can't see the REAL TRUTH about Roswell and what caused it, there's no point in doing so. This document-retrieval effort is a very serious (and expensive) affair, and cannot afford to be bastardized by those Roswell/conspiracy nuts that have misused and misquoted declassified government documents for the WRONG reasons. I have found the overwhelming SILENCE to be most revealing from the UFO field regarding the General Schulgen memo for example. Those people who used to trump the Schulgen memo as "proof" of Roswell's "UFO/ET" reality have remained conspicuously SILENT ever since Bob Todd's awesome expose that the memo is a fraud. Why haven't these SAME researchers SAID ANYTHING or BOASTED ALOUD with the same religious fervor as they did when their ignorance compelled them to use the fake memo for their own propaganda purposes?? The UFO field is in a sorry state, and unless heads start to roll per se and we do a better job at policing ourselves, then we might as well quit studying UFOs because unless one REALLY does crash and land in our collective, inept laps, we will get nowhere and it is entirely our fault. Instead, I and others get slammed for exposing cases as hoaxes (not all of them come up "aliens" folks) and I get accused of being everything from a CIA agent to a debunker. Well, as my new web site proves, I am not this, and I dont have time for these conspiracy nuts anymore and if people want to be this delusional in their beliefs regarding me, well, it's their right to be so. In the meantime, I intend to push credible research forward and yes, whenever and wherever it makes sense, expose frauds when it is logical to do so. There is nothing wrong with clensing the database of UFOlogy whenever possible, and one should not be scorned for doing so. End of tangent and opinion, Kal Korff P.S. I noticed that Robert Todd and Karl Pflock have also submitted a post in response to the balloon posting of Anderson. For the record, my decision to post was independent of Pflock's and Todd's and there was no collusion between us. I mention this as my last and final "courtesy" to the more radical, extreme conspiracy nuts in the UFO field who tar Todd, Pflock and I with the ridiculous "CIA spy" or "disinformation plant" label. While my mentioning this may not convince them, that's their delusion. I'm through with these types.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix & Vance Davis From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:15:55 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:17:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix & Vance Davis >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix & Vance Davis >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:55 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix =lots of money >>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:10:14 EST >>I atteneded the Hoagland Schpeil and some of it was interesting and some >>boring. They pitched the "Free Masons" quite a bit. In the opinion of many >>Vance Davis was long and boring but he's an interesting man and not a Pro >>speaker and comes off sincere. >Is this the same Vance Davis who was one of the "Gulf Breeze 6", US military >folk who went AWOL from Germany to hunt the antichrist in Gulf Breeze after >receiving coded mesages warning them of his arrival there? >How long has he been on the UFO circuit? For those who don't know much about Vance Davis. He was one of the people in whats known as the "Gulf Breeze six". He wrote a book called 'Unbroken Promises'. Far as I know Vance isn't on any lecture curcuit. Hes been doing a lot of research about the history of the Arizona and Phoenix. He has presented some very interesting data so far. He states he'll continue further. He is worth listening to if you have the chance. Tom King Arizona Skywatch director OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix = lots of money From: JGBOUCK@aol.com [James Bouck] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:21:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix = lots of money >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix =lots of money >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:10:14 EST In a message dated 97-07-17 00:30:11 EDT, Tom King writes: >I refer to people like this as "after math consultants" >They come in after some type of UFO case and use >their names to cash in onthe hype. >Usually they write books or make videos and know >little about the casestheir making money off of. I'm not >saying there aren't good UFOlogists who >investigate and do exhausting reports, like Linda >Moulton Howe for example... I'm not sure what kind of dealings Mr. King has had with Ms. Howe, but if he should ask her a question regarding anything she has investigated or written that someone else has investigated, I'm sure he'll get the same response I did: "Buy my book"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 'Space aliens', Globe & Mail, Canada From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:28:36 -0400 Subject: 'Space aliens', Globe & Mail, Canada SOURCE: Globe and Mail - p.A14 DATE: July 15, 1997 SECTION: Social Studies Space aliens This summer the Big Ear Observatory at Ohio State University will be dismantled and turned into a golf course. For 25 years, its radio telescope has searched unsuccessfully for intelligent life in the cosmos. However extraterrestrials are still glamorous and controversial creatures in the non-academic world: * There are six species of ETs at the movies, writes Kurt Andersen in The New Yorker: more or less normal-looking people; hulking humanoids with enormous bald heads; the small, grey, hairless, chinless big-eyed waif (the type reported in most real" sightings); the comic-relief plush toy; the swamp creature; the overdeveloped shellfish or insect. A successful alien, said a designer, is one that people can relate emotion to. Sources: news services. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:15:14 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:30:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:29:53 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>From: RTodd12191@aol.com >>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:35:21 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bursting the Balloon >>< From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >>< Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) >>< To: updates@globalserve.net >>< Subject: Bursting the Balloon >>< If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to >>< read the Air Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ > >(snip) >>Unfortunately for Jared Anderson, the full text of the new Air Force >>report is not available on the internet. I must assume, therefore, >>that Mr. Anderson has not yet seen and read the full report, and >>is writing out of ignorance. What a surprise. >>Colonel Haynes should have said, >>"Well, did you ever consider the possibility that the witnesses were >>lying?" Perhaps he thought the press was intelligent enough to arrive at >>that conclusion on their own, without having it spelled out for them. >>Perhaps the Air Force's only sin was in overestimating the intelligence of >>the press. >Bob, >Have (you) ever considered the possibility that the Airforce is lying? I >had an opportunity to meet a couple of the folks in Roswell that you feel >the Airforce should have summarily labelled liars. They seemed to me to >be sweet, ordinary folks that are just trying to do the right thing by >coming forward and telling what they know. >The military on the other hand has a long and glorious history of outright >lies and deception. Just one glaring example: Viet Nam, the "gulf incident" >that president Johnson used in order to plunge us deeper into that war was >a non-event! Manufactured in order to sell congress a war that only the >generals wanted. I lost friends there. That little fib cost us 50,000+ guys! John, Why jump to the conclusion that the Air Force is lying? Have you ever considered that they are simply mistaken? From my point of view the guys from the Air Force who were involved (Weaver and McAndrew) are bureaucrats who are not paid to produce answers and solutions to the public. I mean what would they gain when they came back with real quality research? Would they get promoted or get a salary raise? Does anyone higher up in the Air Force has a stake in finding out the truth about Roswell? Not that I know. So is there any incentive for Weaver and McAndrew to dig for the real answers? Are their mortgages threatened when they don't? Can they get fired when they screw up? Of course not. As far as I know these bureaucrats in the Pentagon are paid for sitting behind their desks and produce as much paperwork as they can. That is the company culture. This would also explain to me why keep producing reports. You could say that they should be paid for producing answers, but we are talking about how things are, not how they should be. People can see lies and conspiracy, I see plain, common bureaucracy that is always screwing things up, whether it's the Air Force or the IRS. About the alien technology being kept secret. That may well be. But if this secret alien tech exists, chances are that it is located at a place like Area 51. As Col. Haines, who did the presentation, admitted: he had no access to information about that. Now you could say he is lying too. But I think he is speaking the truth. Sensitive high technology is always being kept secret. And you can't keep a secret when you let everyone in the Air Force know about it. This beside the fact that, judging from his body language, he looked very sincere. So things could be a mix of both believers and skeptics theories: there could be an alien spaceship or two in the possesion of the Air Force, but Haines, Weaver and McAndrew could be telling the truth at the same time, i.e. that they have no knowledge of it. What it would take to get real answers to this? I don't know. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 17 Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:46:50 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:55:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:40:08 -0500 (CDT) >> I couldn't find a single valid physics reference to >> "ion plasma vortices", which, based on the description above, >> I frankly find much harder to accept than ET UFOs. One wonders where >> they came up with this. >They got it from the writings of Paul Devereux and Peter Brookesmith >(with help from Michael Persinger), who created the concept in order to >explain UFOs as mysterious "natural" phenomena. However, since I've >been labelled as "grumpy" by this faction for making comments such as >yours, I'll leave it to them to educate you in this alchemy. Whoa, Chris! I think the father of the 'ion plasma vortex' --as a crop circle explanation--was none other than Dr. Terence Meaden. See his self-published "The Circles Effect and Its Mysteries," Bradford-on-Avon, 1989. He's got one passing reference to Devereux's "piezoelectric waves," none to Persinger. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 ET Consciousness Comes to America! From: meccam@erols.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:33:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:03:32 -0400 Subject: ET Consciousness Comes to America! A true, indisputable, factual account, completely and totally proving the point: Hallmark cards has published a new line of "Shoebox Greetings" adorned with "The Grays." Card #1 - Birthday Cover - Living room scene, three greys looking over the back of a couch. Behind them is a TV with a football game. Front door open, landed saucer outside. Bubble text - "For your birthday, how would you like to get any and all sports channels....." Inside card - "directly into your head. We can do it. It'll hurt a little, but you won't remember." Card #2 - Birthday Single grey holding a mechanical device pointed at a tiny levitating saucer, upon which rests a birthday cake with lit candles. Bubble text - "Happy day of birth to you, Happy day of birth to you" - Inside card - "you have the appearence of a small hairy primate, and the scent of one, too! I hope you found this amusing, earthling." Card #3 - Birthday Small person standing outside his car in the light beaming down from a saucer. Text - "When aliens abducted me they gave me several ideas on how you could celebrate your birthday!" On the side of the card there's a wheel with four choices: "Wrap yourself in stinky goo, wake up in a dark coccon;" "insulate that car for space travel;" "Insert small homing device in your nasal cavity;" and "Tie yourself to medical table, shine bright lights overhead." Inside the cover, text reads: "Choose your favorite and have a happy birthday." Card #4 - Birthday [My favorite] Scene - two greys climbing in a window towards the foot of a bed. One says "We don't like abducting women your age" Inside the cover - "They always want us to put their body parts back in slightly different places than when we started. Happy birthday." I rest my case, Q.E.D. You may have deduced that I had a close encounter with the evidence, unescapable conclusion proven by the detailed descriptions and exact quotes. Sorry, don't have a color scanner, you'll have to take it on faith. However, doubt my credibilty, as a lifelong expert in greeting cards, and I shoot! Now, Errol, you have to post this - it's pristine, first-edition original research. I'm getting a grant from a major university (undisclosed until the money is in my bank account) to study the buying patterns and customer reactions to this line - gonna write my Sociology Ph.D dissertation on this one, you bet. Then I'll publish it as a book. Then I'll go on the talk circuit with my name in lights!!! Ah, the bliss of fame, soon come, mon. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:12:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: RTodd12191@aol.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:35:21 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:14:17 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon < From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] < Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) < To: updates@globalserve.net < Subject: Bursting the Balloon < If anyone needs a good laugh they can goto this location to < read the Air Force's dummy report: http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell/ > >Unfortunately for Jared Anderson, the full text of the new Air Force >report is not available on the internet. I must assume, therefore, >that Mr. Anderson has not yet seen and read the full report, and >is writing out of ignorance. What a surprise. Yes it's true, I, like Mr. Pflock, am making statements about the report without having read all it's parts. I will say that if the rest of the report is as silly as the dummy excerpts that I HAVE READ I may consider refraining from giving it the time. >I take offense that an alien spaceship buff like Jared Anderson >would claim that a report he hasn't even read "more or less >pissed on" my research into the New York University (NYU) >("Mogul") balloon explanation for the debris recovered on the >Foster Ranch, I guess the tone of my paragraph deceived you into the impulsive assumption that I am in resounding support of the extraterrestrial hypothesis for the crash. This is not so. I do not believe the saucer buffs have proven their contentions any more than the balloon buffs. This gives me the oppourtunity ridicule equally all those with irrational blindness and the inability to see past their own convictions. Now since we're talking about "pissing" why are you so full of piss and vinegar? Are you really so convinced that the Air Force dummy contention is a compliment to your research? Or are you having trouble admitting that the balloon theory has been hurt by this ridiculous myth? >especially when the report he hasn't even >bothered to read reaffirms the findings of the.first report issued >in 1994. Even more troubling is Anderson's assertion that the >new report is a "fictionalized account of a still highly >controversial incident." I do, however, admire his courage >for speaking his mind out of nearly total ignorance. THAT >takes guts. Guts? Nonsense. Sometimes you gotta throw rocks at people's kneecaps in order to get them to come out and answer a question. I am happy to say that both yourself and Mr. Pflock came rushing forward to respond to my insidious little paragraph but that's neither here nor there. Your response seems to clealry indicate a glowing endorsement of this new report so I guess we all know where you stand don't we? >Strangest of all is that alien spaceship buff Anderson apparently >hasn't considered the possibility that the tall tales told by a >number of supposed Roswell "witnesses" are nothing but >"fictionalized account[s] of a still highly controversial incident," >which is "still highly controversial" largely due to the tall tales >told by the supposed "witnesses" to the "alien" bodies. >Apparently Roswell alien spaceship buffs believe only the Air >Force is capable of telling lies. I couldn't possibly take that position. I enjoy pointing out non-truths no matter who tells them whether they be Roswell witnesses (Ragsdale and others) or the Air Force :) or, oh yeah "researchers". >I agree that, in being too timid to call a spade a spade, the Air Force >did not enhance their own credibility. Instead of saying he had no >explanation for why supposed Roswell "witnesses" were "confused" >about dates by seven or eight years, Colonel Haynes should have said, >"Well, did you ever consider the possibility that the witnesses were >lying?" You make sense here. It is far more credible to assume that witnesses could be lying rather than mistaking CTD's wearing military jump suits with "US Army" stamped on them (as ret. Col Raymond Madson of Project High Dive contends) for child sized aliens (if there were actually any aliens seen at all). But Alas, in it's zealous foolishness the Air Force is again overly eager to please so it serves up one myth to quash another. Just so I can be clear on this would you please state which of the witnesses you think were lying and which of those you think saw CTD's from 1953? Additionally on the subject of Col. Haynes - What is "time compression" anyway?..I don't think that's a real word. It sounds more like an algorithm used in the manufacture of compact discs. It's disappointing to see that after the good work you did on the Schulgen memo that you've taken this dummyism so seriously. Very credulous indeed. see ya at the next Air Force report. Jared. (alleged alien spaceship buff)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:15:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:40:18 -0400 Subject: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' In early May Bob Shell asked if anyone had ever heard of Kent Jeffrey prior to the Roswell Initiative, and speculated KJ's charge from the start was one of debunkary. I've not seen a reply to this so I re-ask that question, and ask if anyone knows what's become of the 20,000 signatures he was supposed to deliver? In light of the predicament Kent must find himself in presently, Ray Santilli's prophetic comments below is worth noting. Kent's tactics haven't changed. Dave Vetterick ===================================================================== To: Philip Mantle From: Ray Santilli BUFORA ROSWELL FOOTAGE LTD Fax: 01924 444 049 Fax: 0171 723 0732 20 FEBUARY 1996 Dear Philip Thank you for the copy of Kent Jeffrey's review. You ask for my comments. I've only scanned the document quickly. I find it incredible that volumes can be written based on assumptions and wrong information. Kent has completely wasted his time and it's obvious from the tone of his manuscript that he has turned the situation into a personal vendetta. I am unable to make any comments with regard to the many experts he lists. Their expert opinion is of more value than mine, and obviously everyone is entitled to an opinion. With regard to Volker Spielberg, of course he is a business partner and friend of mine, how else would I know him. As far as hieroglyphics are concerned, they do not spell out any English words, you can take any symbol and associate it with another to create almost anything you want. Turning to the French TV programme, I still don't understand what the fuss is regarding Bill Randle. He was just one of many people we saw while in Cleveland, and I've always made it clear from the beginning that Jack Barnet was not the real name of the cameraman. It may have been a poor choice but it was the name adopted. Kent states that I am victimising people in the USA and elsewhere. I would be grateful if he could tell me exactly who has been victimised because as far as I am concerned that only person that have been victimised is myself. Over all, I am aware that the cameraman's story and the footage, etc. has flaws in it, however there's nothing I can do about that; the film is what it is. In due course, a more detailed account on how the film was acquired will be published. This will answer many of the questions raised. Please feel free to relay the above information to MUFON and Kent Jeffrey. Best Regards Ray Santilli
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:44:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:15:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:40:18 -0400 Subject: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' > In early May Bob Shell asked if anyone had ever heard of Kent Jeffrey > prior to the Roswell Initiative, and speculated KJ's charge from the > start was one of debunkary. I've not seen a reply to this so I re-ask > that question, and ask if anyone knows what's become of the 20,000 > signatures he was supposed to deliver? I know that about 5000-6000 of them were shipped from my home via Federal Express to a legislative affairs assistant at the White House on Monday July 14. Kent indicated that the remaining 14,000+ that he had were shipped from California. I had collected the Roswell Declarations which had been sent to MUFON and held them for Kent until they were shipped. I believe information pertaining to the delivery of the Declarations will be updated on the Roswell Declaration web site in the near future. [www.roswell.org] > In light of the predicament Kent must find himself in presently, > Ray Santilli's prophetic comments below is worth noting. Kent's > tactics haven't changed. How so? Mr. Santilli comments (in your quoted post): "In due course, a more detailed account on how the film was acquired will be published. This will answer many of the questions raised." Let's see that was written February 20, 1997... how long is "due course?" Rebecca PS. BTW, I had not heard of Kent Jeffrey prior to the Roswell Initiative, but how does that make him guilty of being a debunker from the start?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:23 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:56:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 14:05:30 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >[You could lie, of course, and say that you had indeed examined the >film -- but that would eliminate the possibility of your weaseling-out >when the facts about this scam become known. Shucks, Bob, why bother? >Your reputation is already ruined. You'll never be taken seriously in >the field of ufology except among overcredulous rubes and nutbars.] Thanks, Vince. Now everyone who takes me seriously knows that they are either overly credulous rubes or nutbars. I'm sure they didn't know this. >With responses like this, you apparently don't care what your fellow >UpDates subscribers think either. No, Vince. I have singled you out for not caring. You and your views are of no concern to me. I treat people as individuals and respond in kind. Those who treat me with respect get respect back. >Sure, I should waste my time on a "photo expert" offering "expert >opinion" on film he won't/can't confirm that he's actually seen. >Frankly, I find challenging your ridiculous BS to be much more >productive. OK. That's cool with me. You have made up your mind, so don't bother being concerned with the facts. Fine. Have it your way. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:18 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:54:41 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Bursting the Ballon Jared, I haven't read the FULL report either, so I guess I am not qualified to speak in the eyes of KKK. However, as one who works in the magazine publishing business, I know PR hype when I see it, and the AF web site is just that. Notice on the opening page they use only three photos from the report. The first is of Alderson Anthropomorphic Dummies, and was obviously picked for its shadowy nature, and the fact it looks like alien scenes from sci-fi movies. The second is of a NASA Voyager capsule being lifted by a crane. It was obviously picked because it looks like a UFO and because it resembles tales of the Roswell crash craft being lifted by a crane. Tellingly it is not dated, and to those who don't know better it might imply that this is somehow relevant to 1947. The photo of the dummies is not dated either. The third photo shows a Viking capsule in the desert in 1972. Would someone please tell me what the bloody hell this has to do with ANYTHING????? Sure it looks like a crashed flying saucer in the desert, but so effing what! I do not find this one bit funny. I think it is a blatant attempt to mislead people into thinking that these three photos, the oldest of which is around a decade later in vintage than Roswell, are somehow related to that event. The whole premise of the report seems to be that people confused events which occurred from 1956 through 1972 in their minds, and then got this all balled up and confused with a balloon crash in 1947. I just can't buy that. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 10:02:33 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:23:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:29:32 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >So come on Bob, bring your ball back, we need it to play! You and Vince >make nice so we can all enjoy the dialog. Vince, tune down the "sphincter >factor" when you address Bob or request information from him. Bob, would >you _please_ (for all of us) answer Vinces interesting and _quite valid_ >question? Hi John, Bob Shell can't answer that question without admitting he's been either a shameless PR flack for Ray Santilli or an utterly crass commercial opportunist (books, lectures) by staking his reputation as a photo expert to his certification that the AA "film" was authentic -- without ever personally examining a single relevant frame. Don't expect any answers from Mr. Shutterbug. I've been trying to flush-out a response for well over a year now to no avail. I predict that Bob will simply "take his ball" and go play somewhere else -- among audiences far less-informed and much more credulous about the facts of the AA scam. Shameless... Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Comet Discoverer Shoemaker Dies From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:51:42 -0400 Subject: Comet Discoverer Shoemaker Dies --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Comet Discoverer Shoemaker Dies Date: 97-07-18 21:25:46 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By MATT KELLEY PHOENIX (AP) - Astronomer Eugene Shoemaker, who co-discovered the comet that slammed into Jupiter in 1994, was killed in a car accident Friday in Australia during an annual trip to search for asteroid craters. He was 69. Shoemaker died in a two-car accident near Alice Springs, Australia, said Edward Bowell, a fellow astronomer at Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff. His wife, Carolyn, another Lowell Observatory astronomer who shared in the Jupiter comet's discovery, was injured, Bowell said. Shoemaker was perhaps best known for helping to discover comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, which broke up and spectacularly slammed into the giant, gaseous planet in 1994. Amateur astronomer David Levy was also on the team. A geologist by training, Shoemaker was also a leading expert on craters and the interplanetary collisions that caused them. He lived just a short drive from Arizona's famous Meteor Crater and first proved to the scientific community that it was indeed the result of an asteroid, said University of Arizona planetary scientist Larry Lebofsky. The Shoemakers had been in Australia for about two weeks on an annual trip to search for asteroid impact craters in the outback, Bowell said. Bowell said Shoemaker ``more or less single-handedly created the field of impacts ... and he was the one who started bringing to other scientists' and the public's attention the danger of the impacts of comets and asteroids on the Earth.'' Shoemaker founded the U.S. Geological Survey's Center of Astrogeology in Flagstaff in the early 1960s and served as the center's chief scientist. He also taught at the California Institute of Technology from 1969 to 1989. ``Any area he went into, his contributions stood in mammoth proportion above the rest of us mortals,'' said Laurence Soderblom, a college of Shoemaker's who is working on the Mars Pathfinder mission. ``No one else has the natural ability to see into a complex problem and dissect it with the clarity of Gene Shoemaker.'' Shoemaker also was involved in several U.S. space missions, including the Apollo missions to the moon - he taught the astronauts about craters before they left Earth. Shoemaker had wanted to be an astronaut but was rejected because of a medical problem, Bowell said. ``I think that was the greatest disappointment of his life, that he failed to be standing on the moon with his geological hammer tapping on the rocks,'' Bowell said. In an interview last year, Shoemaker said he hoped for more manned space missions soon - to nearby asteroids, if not to the planet Mars. ``I don't think I will live long enough to see us get to Mars,'' Shoemaker said. AP-NY-07-18-97 2118EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:29:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:15:37 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon In a message dated 07/18/97 07:45:51, you wrote: >It is unbelieveable that all references to the event have >been destroyed by the Army or Air Force Steve (& Greetings to The List) -- You assume the Army/Air Force thought the matter of any importance once the excitement died down. (Believe it or not, not everyone thinks/feels about Roswell like the true believers of UFOdumb.) You also assume AAF communications about such a potentially disasterous (exposure of a very sensitive project) and certainly embarrassing matter were in written form of one sort or another. (How long have you been around Washington, Steve?...) >Unless the report can show pictures of the actual debris field, >taken at the time, and the actual reports on the incident, then it >is yet another suggestion as to what it could have been and not a >proven fact. Good grief, Steve! Does a Mogul flight train have to land on your desk on the Hill before you can accept it? (Apologies to Edward Ruppelt.) Also see above re written records. The weight of the evidence re the debris is so heavily on the side of Mogul that only those with a will to believe can deny it. Fact is, the situation is just the reverse of those who like to say, if Roswell were a case tried in court, the evidence would surely lead to a crashed-saucer conclusion. >the debate will continue, and Roswell can rest assured that it's >primary tourist attraction will remain lucrative. Sad, but true. And some people still debate the existence of fairies and even make a couple of bucks on the little insects. However, those of us concerned with real UFO research (at least Yrs Trly) will no longer waste (much) time on the debate or spend any bucks in The Holy City. -- Cheers, KARL D. BUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:41:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:33:26 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:12:33 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: UFO faces are ingrained in human genes >To: updates@globalserve.net >Monday July 14 7:03 PM EDT >UFO faces are ingrained in human genes >CHILLICOTHE, Ohio, July 14 (UPI) _ A Chillicothe Correctional >Institution psychologist says the concept of a triangular face with >large eyes has been genetically implanted in the human consciousness. Hi Rebecca, O-K, "facial templates." Just to add to the doctors database, he should know that the human facial templates arrive in silent silver ships, and that they can move through solid objects and take folks onboard their template craft (against their will) and do all sorts of things without any protest from the customer! Why would a facial template perform medical proceedures or stick probes in peoples butts for instance? I'd like to ask the doctor how he explains the odd but consistent behavior/proceedures that the templates perform and display. Once, a human facial template left a mark on my wifes body one night that scared the hell out of her (both of us) when she discovered it in the morning, and it took more than eighteen months to heal. Another time the templates came and she had to be hospitalized for eight days because the templates screwed up and punctured her sinuses so high up in the middle of her head that the ENT specialists couldn't get in there to close or cauterize without performing an intrusive (cutting her face) surgical proceedure in order to correct it. She bled on and off for the whole of the time she was there. the doctors could not explain how she recieved a puncture wound so very deep inside her head. (Budd Hopkins has the CAT scans) The facial templates have permanently marked everyone in my immediate family following one or another of their traumatizing unannounced visits. There have even been times when memories of facial template manifestation happened to more than one of us in the same night. But then that's just probably what facial templates do and how they operate. Let me know when the good doctor comes up with a way to make the facial templates go away! We already know what our problem is, what we (need) is a solution. Hey Rebecca, did the guy happen to mention where the "template" for four fingered hands comes from? <G> John Velez, Facial Template Spawn John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:40:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Hi Bob, hi All, Because Bob Shell and I occasionaly exchange private communications (mostly bad jokes that we inflict on each other <G>) I thought that if I was the one asking the question (maybe) Bob would respond. So, here goes. Mr Shell would you please tell us if you have had an opportunity to inspect a piece of the original AA film, or if it is only video that you have worked with? There, I asked. (Vince, please take note that I didn't have to brow beat Bob while I asked, and it _never hurts_ to use the "magic word" either!) It would be a shame to lose Bob from the list, he is close to an area of study (the AA film) that many of us are very interested in. (And I'd miss that occasional bad joke. <VBG>) I hope that Bob will take the time not only to answer the question, but to stick around on the list for any future ones that may arise. We have a really unique cast of characters on this list, that cover virtually every aspect of the UFO phenom, I'd hate to lose even one of those resources. And agree with him or not, believe him or not, Bob (is) one of those resources. John Velez, Alien Ambassador (Don't feel left out Vince, so are you! <G>) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 11:30:39 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:41:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:18 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon Bob Shell writes: >However, as one who works in the magazine publishing business, I know >PR hype when I see it... At last we agree on something. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 18 Skywatch: Peer Review From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:52:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:56:45 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Peer Review On the subject of: Alien Implants, Alleged or Otherwise A response... by Pat Parrinello with advice from his sidkick, Pinchbeck Tidings. Sometimes, I guess, we have to address the fact that what is 'peer' for one may not necessarily be 'peer' for the other. Take for instance the time from the day my implant was removed. 08/15/95 - 08/15/97 = ((Pi * 92x10^6)*2)/730 That's 2 years for you regular 'peers', the former being for Richard Hoagland who has no real 'peer' at all with perhaps the singular exception of Sherlock Holmes. Now some of you folks may take issue with my comparing Richard Hoagland to Derrel Sims. I don't care. Both are equally capable of projecting incredible vicissitude. So, here I go... 'peer' reviewing idioms by the basketfull. My comments will [be in braces like this here.] ~Pat~ ======================================= Subject: Fwd: (Fwd) Skywatch: Peer Review. Sent: 7/15/97 4:58 PM Received: 7/15/97 5:16 PM From: RSuzKeith@aol.com Anyone care to translate? [ I tried PGP but it seems cyberGeller bent my private key.] --------------------- Forwarded message: From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Reply-to: skywatch@wic.net To: (Overseas #1)@emin16.mail.aol.com Date: 97-07-15 14:03:30 EDT ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Derrel" <derrel@holman.net> To: "andromeda.net - Jared Anderson" <jared@valuserve.com> Cc: "The Colonel" <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Re: Peer Review. Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:43 -0500 Question: When will the peer review begin? J.A., (concerning the Alleged Roswell Debries). (We are still in the beginning phases of the original alleged implant research...more biologists and DNA persons are now on board to advise, discuss and continue the remarkable anomalies found in the biological housing surrounding the 7 different objects removed from 5 different people. Only 3 of these people are our original 2 surgeries. That's just the biology. See the site in a few days to see what the latest is concerning the remarkable metallurgy...this is on going on in several labs, as we speak. When this information is finally in, collated and the peer review is finished. The abductees, contactees, or "experiencers," will be the very first ones to get the news in total.This was promised to them and will be fulfilled in a report on the entire scope of investigations. [Sentence isolator mode ON] It has been the thinking of some persons who funded some of the research to reveal as much as possible to the public, after the tests were over but not, after the peer review. [Sentence isolator mode OFF] [That is a prime example of hyper-dimensional-physics.] This is not the position of most of the scientists on board now. It is not our position as well. The work should go unimpeded and not "tried" in the public eye while the research is ongoing. [Not necessarily being in the group named above I find myself there anyway. 2 years now.] Finish the science, if it merits a scientific paper, write it, and publish it in a scientific journal. This will invariably lead to a peer review. These people are far more qualified to look at the work of the disciplines involved, and their methods, than we. The People in the UFO community (especially those with qualified scientific and medical backgrounds), should then get to do their work on the objects, if it is decided that something was missed or could have been done better. We do feel that there are highly qualified people in the UFO field that can do the work, and very well. The problem in using them for this kind of hard science work, is that it makes your case less than bullet proof. The first shots fired at the case will be "bias." [Apparently "prejudice" is a double edged sword.] It is the way things go....No case will be bullet proof. Someone is always going to do that. If it is in the spirit of science and not mean spirited, then we must look at those criticisms and "improve, adapt, and overcome." If science is considered a self perfecting organism, then by that very definition it is not perfect, just improving. I think most of us are aware of that. Science is not the only set of eyes we want to look at any hard evidence. These are just the first set of eyes we want to look through, and certainly not the last. Science is like a pair of glasses...they can make things clear (if its the right prescription). We may need glasses if we dont see well without them. Science will tell you all about the book your reading, what it is made of, when it may have been made, and many necessary answers to questions you may want to ask...it may not be able to answer other questions on "why" the author wrote it, or even the depths of its content. That is what other "eyes," other glasses, are for. Some people in the UFO community may be able to see better than anyone. I think those people may be the abductees themselves. They may not have all of this "sorted" out yet to see the patterns (if there are any), that we do not see. With the help of all of these "glasses" and a trained set of eyes, perhaps we will all be able to come to some sort of conclusions. At that point Contact may be made. Whatever that may mean. That remains to be seen. ) [Contact has always been made.] Sorry for that I just thought it might help. Now to answer your question. It is much tougher than you think...Numerous new heavy weight scientists have weighed in...to disprove the claims of the anomalies, (or, to satisfy their skeptical curiosity). Regardless, we are grateful for this kind of attention on the materials and will continue until we all come to a solution as to why the Isotopic ratios are so different. [My question(s) is: Who? What? Where? When? Why? Then: Sample(s) Tested at: Lab a? Lab b? Lab c? Lab d? Lab e .. z ? Are all results = ?] This is only beginning...If it cannot stand this barrage, it will not get to a paper about its uniqueness. It will go down as why were the unique spikes found as in this artifact. This will allow a problem in this area to be uncovered...this is what science does. If the alleged Roswell derbies survives, then we go on to phase 3, not phase 2. If it does not survive, then we go on to phase three. Phase #2 is Peer review, Phase 3 is we are going to present new alleged artifacts. [ Loop Do Phase1 Do Phase2 Do Phase3 Go to Loop ] We have more than a few pieces of evidence. Tests are being run on numerous pieces right now, apart from the Alleged Roswell Derbies. When those tests are complete, and stop at phase 2 or 3, we will present more evidence to be evaluated. We did not just "happen" to come across some unusual artifact. I have been doing this for over 27 years. We still have some materials that may far outshine this interesting artifact. Thank you for your sharp inquiry. We are having to up date materials on our web pages at www.anw.com/first. Our web masters are still working on some very nice things and a complete restructuring. We will have an IMPLANT GALLERY, AND A PHYSICAL EVIDENCE GALLERY, A SECRET DOCUMENTS GALLERY AND OTHER THINGS FROM INVESTIGATORS IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WE WORK WITH. Some of the things will be: many different kinds of alleged implants or objects that are "alien to the human organism." Many of these objects will have been removed surgically. There will be, at least 2 different materials from alleged crash retrievals. There will be some anomalous materials that appear other worldly, or very different. One of our surgical patients thinks that our best evidence is a pane of commercial glass, that has the distinction to have what appears to be an image of a pair of small hands and an arm in the glass. One university scientist wants to interface an interferometer with the glass and see if he can pull out a 3 dimensional image of what ever may have passed through the object. I think this is enough of "hints" of what we could display. I hope you like the new sitework and our continued efforts to bring Qualified Scientists and Medical professionals into the field to review our work. If it can stand this kind of scrutiny (by scientists not in the UFO world), great, then others may follow this lead. That lead is to get the UFO community out of the dark ages and into, as one professor called it the Exploration Stage. According to this one specialist in his field, we are not even there yet. [Too busy exploring each others motives.] I hope this helps us all get there. There are many fine, talented and dedicated people in the community. Ultimately, we cannot peer review our own work, so to speak. [Derrel and Richard may just have to.] We must not give ourselves grades and not allow the "professors" to see our homework assignments. It is difficult for us to even judge ourselves much less each other. We try to stay out of that mix...and leave it to others who feel they are highly qualified to do so. [The general public.] Thanks again for your inquiry and "good news of what CNI is doing." May I include a small work of Theodore Roosevelt for your review. This was given to me long ago...by a scientist at White Sands proving grounds. He was part of the Moon launches involving the Primates that were first sent up. I lived n Alamogordo, New Mexico for 13 years. I did not know what it truly meant then, I was only 18, I hope I am understanding it better now. Enjoy. "IT IS NOT THE CRITIC WHO COUNTS; NOT THE MAN WHO POINTS OUT HOW THE STRONG MAN STUMBLES, OR WHERE THE DOER OF DEEDS COULD HAVE DONE BETTER. THE CREDIT BELONGS TO THE MAN WHO IS ACTUALLY IN THE ARENA, WHOSE FACE IS MARRED BY DUST AND SWEAT AND BLOOD; WHO STRIVES VALIANTLY;...WHO SPENDS HIMSELF IN A WORTHY CAUSE; WHO AT THE BEST KNOWS IN THE END THE TRIUMPH OF HIGH ACHIEVEMENT, AND WHO AT THE WORST, IF HE FAILS, AT LEAST FAILS WHILE DARING GREATLY, SO THAT HIS PLACE SHALL NEVER BE WITH THOSE COLD AND TIMID SOULS WHO KNOW NEITHER VICTORY NOR DEFEAT." Derrel Sims, CM.Ht., R.H.A. FIRST - Fund for Interactive Research and Space Tecnology P.O. Box 60944, Houston, TX 77205
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:38:05 +0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:00:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:52 +0200 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it> >Subject: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted ! >Dear Friends, > I am preparing a comprehensive bibliography devoted to two main subjects : >1) German Secret Weapons of WWII >2) The so-called "UFO/Nazis" legend (mainly related to the alleged German >"saucer" projects). > I have collected a lot of references and got some invaluable help from >some international UFO buffs. Yet most of them are related to books, while >I know by sure there are plenty of magazine articles buried somewhere >dealing with both subjects (and especially #1). I got the same experience >from the Italian scene, where there are at least 20 different illustrated >articles published during the '50s and '60s in aviation and space magazines. > In order to make the bibliography as complete as possible I am asking th e >help of every member of this list. Those interested should be so kind to >prepare a list of all the magazine articles he owns or knows about both >subjects above, possibly under this form: [snipped] Hi Maurizio. Jorgen Westman from WUFOC here. Stefan Linke (http://www.mailbox.de/~linke/index.html) told me that he had traced down the mapdrawer of the Nazi Artic-base Base 211 and that he was about to interview the 80-year old man some months ago. Good luck! Jorgen. http://www.wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 15:02:27 cst Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:02:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:23 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 14:05:30 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>[You could lie, of course, and say that you had indeed examined the >>film -- but that would eliminate the possibility of your weaseling-out >>when the facts about this scam become known. Shucks, Bob, why bother? >>Your reputation is already ruined. You'll never be taken seriously in >>the field of ufology except among overcredulous rubes and nutbars.] >Thanks, Vince. Now everyone who takes me seriously knows that they >are either overly credulous rubes or nutbars. I'm sure they didn't know >this. Yep, and that's the problem. You're shamelessly exploiting the poor boobs. >>With responses like this, you apparently don't care what your fellow >>UpDates subscribers think either. >No, Vince. I have singled you out for not caring. You and your views >are of no concern to me. I treat people as individuals and respond in >kind. Those who treat me with respect get respect back. When you insult my intelligence with your inconsistent and incoherent flackery, you're not treating me (nor the rest of this List) with respect. Remember, it was your credentials and reputation as a "photo expert" that provided the "film" with the confirmation that the footage was manufactured in the 1940s, and therefore, could not be a hoax. You made the Santilli video "real." Later we learned your analysis was based on sniffing an extraneous bit of film (i.e., no "alien" image) with the highly touted edge codes missing. That wasn't analysis -- that was marketing. I should respect this? Requesting a simple answer to a simple question (especially of one who has actively sought the public spotlight as you have) as to how you arrived at your conclusion is not a breach of "respect." It is the most basic requirement to make a rational judgment about the authenticity of the Santilli video. Yet you take stinging offense at the most fundamental question regarding your alleged analysis of this alleged "film" (i.e., have you ever personally examined a single relevant frame?). If a film or video showing evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence could be confirmed as authentic, it would be an event of tremendous cultural and scientific value. I'm not talking about the money that could be gleaned from innumerable videos, lectures, books, etc., but real historic importance. However, you seem to be reacting to my inquiries as just an annoying nuisance to whatever commercial interest you may have in the Santilli AA video. That you don't seem to begin to comprehend the necessarily rigorous burden-of-proof required for authenticating a film/video of a purported alien lifeform, and your refusal to answer the most basic questions regarding the process whereby you proclaimed the Santilli "film" as authentic indicates to me that you're just another small-time hustler out to fleece the gullible. You want respect? Tell the truth. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:15:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:05:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:00:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' --- NOT!!! > > From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> > > Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:15:29 -0500 > > Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:40:18 -0400 > > Subject: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' > > In early May Bob Shell asked if anyone had ever heard of Kent Jeffrey > > prior to the Roswell Initiative, and speculated KJ's charge from the > > start was one of debunkary. I've not seen a reply to this so I re-ask > > that question, and ask if anyone knows what's become of the 20,000 > > signatures he was supposed to deliver? > I know that about 5000-6000 of them were shipped from my home via Federal > Express to a legislative affairs assistant at the White House on Monday July > 14. Kent indicated that the remaining 14,000+ that he had were shipped from > California. > I had collected the Roswell Declarations which had been sent to MUFON and > held them for Kent until they were shipped. > I believe information pertaining to the delivery of the Declarations will be > updated on the Roswell Declaration web site in the near future. > [www.roswell.org] > > In light of the predicament Kent must find himself in presently, > > Ray Santilli's prophetic comments below is worth noting. Kent's > > tactics haven't changed. > How so? > Mr. Santilli comments (in your quoted post): > "In due course, a more detailed account on how the film was acquired > will be published. This will answer many of the questions raised." > Let's see that was written February 20, 1997... how long is "due course?" > (I assume you meant to say 1996) > Rebecca > PS. BTW, I had not heard of Kent Jeffrey prior to the Roswell Initiative, but > how does that make him guilty of being a debunker from the start? I'm glad to hear the signatures will be delivered as promised. Respectfully, may I suggest you or Kent post a copy of the cover letter, if there was one, accompanying the signatures be posted to this list. Regarding your "due course" comment, I can't speak to that. However, it's certainly a good question which I'll defer to Bob Shell or someone else to answer if they so choose. I did not say Kent was guilty of being a debunker from the start. I was paraphrasing Bob Shell's comments which were as follows: "If you want to debunk something (Roswell) how about injecting a person into it, have that person use all the buzz words and make himself "Mr. Whatever"......then say the Air Force was right all along" Bob went on to say he wasn't accusing Kent of anything, but we should consider this a possible scenario. Regarding Kents tactics now vs his paper on the AA film, in my opinion they are the same. As Kevin Randle and others have pointed out, and I fully agree, his arguments and logic on which he draws his conclusions are extremely weak and faulty. He makes what I consider to be walleyed assumptions which makes it very difficult to believe his intent is anything OTHER THAN debunkary. It is this same brand of quantum leap assumptions Kent tried to apply to the AA film, as alluded to by Mr. Santilli in his Feb. 20, 1996 letter. I believe Kent wants to get the truth, whatever that is, out of the Government just as we all do. However, he seems to go to extraordinary lengths to refute the very things which capture the public's interest, which is the most effective way to put pressure on the Government. His actions contradict what he says, thus the scorn. Why kill the Golden Goose that delivers the trump card of public interest and pressure regardless of whether or not you personally believe Roswell and the AA film are the real thing. Frankly, I for one am tired of waiting for another anything to drop out of the sky to prove intelligent life exists beyond our own, which ultimately is all of our objectives. I yield the soap box. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Labrador, Canada sightings? From: Tina Kennedy <tkennedy@cancom.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:28 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:07:29 -0400 Subject: Labrador, Canada sightings? To all: I'm new to this list, and I've taken the opportunity to lurk for a while. Currently I'm researching reports of sightings in Labrador. If anyone could assist me with this research I'd be very grateful. I look forward to hearing from anyone about any sightings. You can address me on the list or privately. Thanks, Tina Kennedy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: Secrets of Literary History From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:20:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Secrets of Literary History The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:03:54 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Secrets of Literary History. Was: Brookesmith Smears Marcel My carp here is about lying and whether I did it or not. Leaving the=20 Rudeboy to his own opinion, on reflection I think a couple of points=20 in his latest post do need clarification. Dave Rudiak extols the virtues of Jesse Marcel Sr, and complains: >Yet according to Brookesmith, Todd, Korff, etc., Marcel was an=20 >incompetent intelligence officer who couldn't even identify ordinary=20 >materials, Wrong, in my case anyway. There's plenty of published evidence, and=20 yet more has been supplied by Jan Aldrich to this List, that a=20 weather balloon & RAWIN target *didn't* (and probably still don't)=20 constitute "ordinary materials" to non-specialists. So Marcel's=20 competence in this is not at issue; just his *familiarity* with what=20 Brazel found. >>and call me a liar if he likes to do that too, >Well, since he insists. In the course of recycling Todd's arguments, >Brookesmith did clearly lie about (1) Marcel having no radar=20 >tracking experience, and (2) Marcel claiming to be the sole survivor=20 >of a plane crash during WWII. Not only are these statements=20 >incorrect, they even contradict what Todd wrote.=20 (1) To be really picky, doing a course in something *doesn't* make=20 you "experienced" at it. But if I'd been sufficiently picky when=20 reading the page proofs of the book, I would have seen that the word=20 "devices" had dropped out of the sentence "He had no knowledge of=20 radar tracking or weather balloons." So thanks for drawing my eye to=20 that error. Once corrected, it won't contradict what Todd wrote. I might mildly point out that making a mistake is rather different=20 from lying, just as there is a difference between reporting and=20 "parroting". I could also count up the number of times I've drawn=20 attention, on this List, with due attendant cringing, to the=20 misidentification of Marcel with Irving Newton in another book -=20 which error has been corrected in all subsequent reprints. (2) This is what Robert Todd wrote on Marcel as crash survivor: 'Major Marcel also claimed he got shot down once, on his third=20 mission. Not only did he claim he got shot down, but he also claimed=20 that, when he bailed out, his main parachute malfunctioned and failed=20 to open. He said he bailed out at eight thousand feet and fell six=20 thousand feet before he got his reserve parachute open, leaving him a=20 margin of error of only two thousand feet. When Bob Pratt asked=20 Marcel if everyone survived, Marcel said, "All but one crashed into a=20 mountain."' Read Marcel's lips: "All but one crashed into a mountain." But Marcel=20 didn't. So is he the sole survivor here or is he not? And what do you=20 think Tobert Todd thinks? Why, he says: 'One gets the feeling Marcel would have claimed he had been one of=20 the men who died when he crashed into the mountain if he thought he=20 could get away with it. Apparently it would have taken a discrepancy=20 that obvious in nature before certain of the crashed-saucer promoters=20 started doubting Marcel's veracity. Marcel's personnel file does not=20 confirm his claim of being shot down, nor does it dispute it. But=20 considering his other fanciful claims, there is reason to doubt the=20 story.' So where is the contradiction? Where is the lie? I think I spy=20 something not unlike a gigantic misrepresentation, at the very least,=20 reclining at its ease there in the teeth of Mr David Rudiak. Quite possibly, apart from a certain precipitateness over the Brazel=20 debris, which a wise superior might well choose to overlook after a=20 decent bollocking, Marcel was an exemplary officer in the 1940s. So=20 what? We have to bear in mind that the Jesse Marcel of 1978 had had=20 30 years to embellish his memories. To point this out isn't a smear:=20 self-aggrandisement is a simple human frailty. But if it ends in=20 untruths and BUNK that (as in this case) have led thousands of people=20 into useless and pointless imaginings, it should be debunked. Simple=20 as that. For the record & for those who don't already have it, Todd concludes: 'Given Major Marcel's documented inclination toward Walter Mitty-like=20 fantasies, and his propensity for making wildly exaggerated claims,=20 coupled with his embarrassment over having made a stupid mistake back=20 in 1947, any statements he made in connection with the Roswell=20 incident are virtually worthless, except to the faithful who will=20 continue to cling to Marcel as a knight in shining armor. In his=20 Showtime movie, _Roswell_, Paul Davids did his level best to turn=20 Major Marcel into a folk hero who blazed the trail to the "truth"=20 about the Roswell incident. But the truth is that Major Marcel was a=20 mythomaniac who was responsible for the brouhaha back in 1947, and=20 without whom the Roswell story would never have lived again in the=20 1980s and 1990s. Clearly Marcel had a problem with the truth. 'In Marcel's "testimony," we see the origins of every sensational=20 claim being made about the Roswell incident, repeated and embellished=20 by "witnesses" =AD real and imagined =AD who have followed in his=20 footsteps. Although he never mentioned the recovery of bodies, his=20 face-saving claim that the debris was "not of the Earth" certainly=20 opened the door for others to make that claim. Marcel primed the pump=20 of sensational claims, and it's been gushing ever since.' It may seem psittacine to the Rudeboy, but I do rather agree and, in=20 agreeing, see no reason not to repeat the argument. Especially as=20 there are a lot more interesting enigmas in ufology waiting to be=20 [re]solved than the mountain of crap that "Roswell" has become. Yours rhetorickally P. ("Pretty Boy") Mendoza Britspook "That professional irritant" - Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: Teens find crop circle [plasmas] From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:31:59 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:20:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Teens find crop circle [plasmas] > Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:46:50 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Teens find crop circle in Nebraska > >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:40:08 -0500 (CDT) > >They got it from the writings of Paul Devereux and Peter Brookesmith > >(with help from Michael Persinger), who created the concept in order to > >explain UFOs as mysterious "natural" phenomena. However, since I've > Whoa, Chris! > I think the father of the 'ion plasma vortex' --as a crop circle > explanation--was none other than Dr. Terence Meaden. See his self-published > "The Circles Effect and Its Mysteries," Bradford-on-Avon, 1989. > He's got one passing reference to Devereux's "piezoelectric waves," none to > Persinger. No, that's true. But tell me, what is the difference between "ion plasma vortices" which are "unusual natural energy phenomena" that supposedly flatten grain and occasionally are accompanied by small lights - and "rotating plasmas" which are "unusual natural energy phenomena" that supposedly explain some nocturnal light UFOs?> My argument is that *neither* have any basis in physics, and they are sometimes described using similar terms. I'm quite aware of Meaden's work as well as that of Levengood, who also waves his arms rapidly and talks about microwaves and plasmas. Besides, in Persinger's book SPACE TIME TRANSIENTS AND UNUSUAL EVENTS, he even has a diagram explaining how an "electrical field column" will create "low level ionization" which will give rise to UFOs, ghosts and whatever else you want. Ionization is ionization, whether you invoke it to create crop circles or moving lights. I discussed this in my analysis of the TST, published almost 15 years ago and obviously too out of date to be cited with reference to present-day TST or earth lights research, as noted by saints Peter and Paul. I'm sorry, but I don't see *either* theory as having enough going for it to accept without reservation. Maybe if Andrews and Levengood write a paper demolishing the earth lights theory, they'll be even. And now for the qualifications: No, Paul, I don't think UFOs are necessarily alien spacecraft. Yes, I do think that *some* UFOs may be explainable with the TST or as earth lights, but not many at all; my detailed analyses of UFO case reports finds very little room for that. I'm rather content to simply note that a small percentage of UFOs are not explainable and add that there is no theory which can explain the remainder satisfactorily at this time. Yes, I applaud Paul for his excellent research into the earth lights problem; I think he's doing good work, but it just needs a lot of refining still. Yes, I think the same of Persinger and his temporal lobe and tectonic strain research; I don't think it is as supported by data as he thinks, but he is to be commended for doing the research. Finally, no, I don't think this makes me either a debunker or, as noted earlier by someone, "grumpy." I'm simply a scientist looking for answers, and I don't see how any of the theories mentioned answer very much at this time. Maybe, with continued research, but not *yet*. If anything, I'm "skeptical", in the dictionary (not popular) definition of the word, although I'd side with those who call me a "cynic." -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 'Atlantis' Discovered? From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:57:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:37:20 -0400 Subject: 'Atlantis' Discovered? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:20:59 +0100 To: voltron@voy.net From: voltron@voy.net (Jon Locke) Subject: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! ------------ ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! (Sources: Aaron Du Val, President, Egyptology Society, Miami, Florida Press Release, 7/6/97; personal interview, 7/16/97) >From the 7/6/97 Press Release: The ruins of temples dated at 12,000 years old have been found near Bimini, Bahamas. Preliminary analysis has revealed that the original structures, although smaller in size than the Great Pyramid of Giza, appear to have been more advanced. Casing stones have been measured which are of the same unique angle as those at the Great Pyramid. The ruins are megalithic and bear a remarkable resemblance to ancient sites in Egypt. So called "quarry marks" found in the Aswan quarries and also on the Great Pyramid, itself, appear to be identical matches with those found on the Bimini temple stones. Other characteristics closely match features at megalithic sites in Peru, the Yucatan, Ireland and Scandinavia. The stones are already drawing international attention and aggressive research and analysis projects are being set up which hope to commence more involved investigations shortly. Analysis of these enigmatic ancient temples built near Bimini over 12,000 years ago has only just begun. Although many maps of the heavenly realm adorn various walls of these mysterious Bimini temples, there is an almost complete lack of other markings. Of the limited glyphs that do exist, however, several match those found in the famous Altamira Cave in Spain which contains the well-known bison painting. In addition, there are exact orbital plots of the planets and what seem to have been intricate star shafts, metal-coated walls, and intermingled stones of various colors. The Egyptology Society, which claims to be affiliated with the MIAMI MUSEUM OF SCIENCE, will be hosting several meetings this summer at the museum to introduce the evidence to the public. The first meeting, including the first public pictures and video footage, will be held on July 25. ------------ The following interview of Aaron Du Val (ADV), President of Egyptology Society was conducted by James Gregory (JG), Editor-in-Chief of the NHNE News Brief on July 16: JG: Where are the ruins exactly and who discovered them? ADV: Neither the discovers nor the location has been announced yet. It is likely that this information will be announced at the meeting on July 25. Hopefully, we will have contacted the museums and the government by that time so that the site can be protected. JG: Are the ruins underwater? ADV: Some of them are under water and some of them are under the sand under water. JG: What size are the structures? ADV: Overall, they are not as big as the Giza pyramids, but some of the stones are extremely large. JG: Are the stones in place, or are they scattered about? ADV: They are not in their original formation. JG: What kind of response are you getting from your announcement? ADV: We are getting calls from people all over the world. One thing we are kind of amazed at are the number of people who are adamantly against any links between this site and Egypt - it just throws them for a loop. We have had people calling the MIAMI MUSEUM OF SCIENCE who just fly into a rage and don't know where to start attacking - they end up complaining about the punctuation of our news releases. Atlantis is a pretty touchy subject. Maybe this will be the trigger to bring more people forth to explore ideas that have been taboo in the past. Megalithic structures are not supposed to be in the Bahamas. These are closer to what you would find at Giza than what you would find in Mexico or Peru, which is very strange. People are saying unbelievable things like it could force the re-interpretation of the course of human history. JG: Do the matching quarry markings lead one to believe that these stones come from the same quarries as those of the monuments of Giza? ADV: No. They just used the same markings. There are a lot of different theories as to how they were made-possibly by sonic drills or poured as a liquid and then hardened. JG: Edgar Cayce predicted that just this sort of thing would be discovered. ADV: This discovery fits right with his predictions. Now we are not saying it is Atlantis, but it sure is strange how these findings not only match Cayce's predictions but Plato's writings as well, even to the metal-coated walls. ------------ ================================================= See "Adventures in the Merkaba" at The Philosopher's Stone for more material on UFOs and Spirituality.. http://www.voy.net/~voltron/ ************************************************* ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: ET Consciousness Comes to America From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:11:45 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:38:24 -0400 Subject: Re: ET Consciousness Comes to America >From: meccam@erols.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:33:28 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: ET Consciousness Comes to America! >A true, indisputable, factual account, completely and totally proving >the point: >Hallmark cards has published a new line of "Shoebox Greetings" adorned >with "The Grays." Yup, saw those a while ago myself. It's also worth mentioning that the back of the cards show that the card series is *called* "The Grays", too! Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 19 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:43:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:44:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again Regarding... >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 10:02:33 cst >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again Vince queried if any meaningful archive 16mm film samples had ever been seen... Vince, The answer is that not a single 16mm "archive" frame from the video footage has ever been produced in evidence. According to Mr Santilli, "Giving away film with the creature would be a last resort as the frames are far too valuable. I think it is also unnecessary as it is part of the same material already released". The problem is, the materials already released are blank frames and images which have nothing to do with the film. There's a more detailed explanation in the html'd article on my web site at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/aa_qa.htm As to the question of how recently the video could have been made, it's appearance was contemporary with the Showtime Roswell TV movie. No reason why it couldn't have been inspired around then. Although there are obvious differences between Steve Johnson's now infamous model for the movie and what's seen in the "autopsy" video, there are also, in my opinion, notable similarities in the overall concept of creating a "Roswell" alien. True, the Santilli video doesn't really match the perceptions of a "Roswell" alien, but we could say that neither did Steve Johnson's creation for the film. I have recently put some material on my web site to illustrate the point and it can be found at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/sfx.htm James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:43:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:43:19 -0400 Subject: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: an alien face in Jung's UFO book Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:49 -0400 Everyone.... Recently I read Carl Jung's book on UFOs, a fascinating discussion of what might be their psychological significance, written by a great psychologist who took no position on whether they were real or not, but thought they were of overwhelming importance either way. In an effort to understand what UFOs might mean psychologically, Jung discusses several paintings that he believes show UFO imagery. One of them, by a painter I've never heard of, identified only as P. Birkhauser, appears to show much more than that. Specifically, it shows the now-standard alien face, on top of what appears to be a UFO. The UFO is shining beams of light directly down on the skyline of a city below. I don't know when the painting was painted, but the book was published in 1959, so the painting can't be any later than that. I hardly need to say that the standard alien face wasn't known back then. And I should add something else. This isn't sort of the alien face, or approximately the alien face, or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 BWW Media Alert 970718 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:55:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:44:21 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970718 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before you e-mail them something. In all cases, I'd appreciate it if you make clear that =you= are forwarding it, if you do. Thanks!) July 18, 1997 BUFO WEBSITE Well, it may be embryonic, but it's here! I've learned a lot about setting up a site, and I have a lot more to go. This is the kind of thing that will build up over time: I don't consider several of the sections finished yet. Please give me any suggestions. I know I don't have everyone or everything listed that I should: feel free to remind me if I haven't gotten you in there yet. The URL is <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoC alvin's Home Page</A> (http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin/index.html). CLICKABLE LINKS You may have also noticed some underlined (and possibly blue) links already. For most people, you should be able to click on that to go there. If you are reading this on-line, it ought to be direct...if not, it may want you to sign on first. Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the four "S"s of internet shopping: service, selection, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. Here is the link: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.htm l">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</A> (http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html) On to the listings! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. E! has the ALICE episode where she sees a UFO (called "Alice Sees the Light") on Sunday at 5:00 AM Pacific (most times are Pacific time here). If I asked you to name a show with paranormal story lines, how long would it take you to get to TRAPPER JOHN, MD? This week, FX has two eps with such themes: "42" on Wednesday at noon, with someone with chest-burns claiming to be an alien; and "Future Imperfect" on Tuesday at noon, which involves possibly precognitive visions. Nickelodeon's RUPERT has "Rupert and Nessie" on Tuesday at 1:00 PM...the Rupester rescues the Loch Ness monster. AMC has the original INVASION OF THE BODYSNATCHERS at 10:00 AM on Saturday. Sunday at 5:00 AM, Encore runs THE VALLEY OF GWANGI...a Ray Harryhausen cowboys and dinosaurs flick. I couldn't miss echoes of it in THE LOST WORLD (JPII). At 6:35 AM on Monday, SHOWTIME has what I still consider the most important flying saucer fictional film, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL. At the other end of the scale, in my humble opinion, is THE ARRIVAL, playing on Cinemax at 8:00 PM on Wednesday. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific.<A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/talk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.asp">Sightings On Th e Radio</A> Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 7/14 (#113R): THE UNDEAD (zombies on skid row?); STALKER (is a film star being stalked by a fan from beyond the grave?) --week of 7/21 (#114R): FORBIDDEN NORTH (sasquatch); REINCARNATION Saturday, July 19 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM: Ann Druyan (author with her late husband Carl Sagan of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0345384725/bufosweir dworldA/">SHADOWS OF FORGOTTEN ANCESTORS: A SEARCH FOR WHO WE ARE</A> among others (check with me for more), talks about science vs. religion; 5:25 PM, past live hypnotist and best-selling author (<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ex ec/obidos/ISBN=0671648462/bufosweirdworldA/">You Were Born Again to Be Togethe r by Dick Sutphen</A> and lots of others) , Dick Sutphen; 6:00 PM, buy a piece of land on Mars for $19.99 with Dennis Hope; 6:20 PM, want to be a certified skeptic? Joe Nickell (<A HREF="/exec/obidos/ISBN=0813118948/1550-24 67661-842494">Camera Clues : A Handbook of Photographic Investigation</A> and many others) talks about a three-year program; 7:00 PM, Author Dr. Joe Lewels discusses <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0926524402/bufoswei rdworldA/">The God Hypothesis</A> ...how contact with alien life would affect religion, science, and us; 7:30 PM, Dave Davies, one of the Kinks, discusses his new book, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=07868 61495/bufosweirdworldA/">KINK: AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY</A>, which includes revelations of his contacts with intelligences from the etheric planes! 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS FOR THE GODS (in particular, the Nazca Lines, made famous as a mystery by Erich Von Daniken) 5:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, TLC PRESENTS: THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE - SECRETS REVEALED Sunday, July 20 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com <A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Brian O'Leary, author of MIRACLE IN THE VOID LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Alien illustrator David Chace. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5067) 11:30 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, POP-SCI, BIG FOOT SEARCH/BAY BRIDGE/TEST PILOT 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SQUARING THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: QUESTIONING ASTROLOGY 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY 4:30 PM, MTV, ABDUCTED! AM MTV NEWS SPECIAL REPORT (may be played for laughs) 8:00 PM, A&e, HAUNTED HOUSES 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, DISCOVERY SUNDAY: IN THE GRIP OF EVIL (The "real story" behind the events portrayed in the film THE EXORCIST...quite different, as you might imagine. Malachi Martin has a great book on exorcism, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=006065337X/bufoswei rdworldA/">HOSTAGE TO THE DEVIL</A> ) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, TLC PRESENTS: ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV -- PART 1 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, TLC PRESENTS: ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV -- PART 2 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5067) Monday, July 21 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Alien illustrator David Chace. 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, TLC PRESENTS: ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV -- PART 1 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, DISCOVERY SUNDAY: IN THE GRIP OF EVIL (The "real story" behind the events portrayed in the film THE EXORCIST...quite different, as you might imagine. Malachi Martin has a great book on exorcism, HOSTAGE TO THE DEVIL) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, TLC PRESENTS: ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV -- PART 2 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#26): 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, LOCH NESS DISCOVERED 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES I--PART 1: (Features, among other things, Gordon Michael Scallion's predicted Earth changes) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS--MYSTERIES WEEK, PUT TO THE TEST (this sounds interesting...they test a psychic, a haunted house, and an esper) Tuesday, July 22 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, LOCH NESS DISCOVERED 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES I--PART 1: (Features, among other things, Gordon Michael Scallion's predicted Earth changes) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS--MYSTERIES WEEK, PUT TO THE TEST (this sounds interesting...they test a psychic, a haunted house, and an esper) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#27): 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES I -- PART 2 (Edgar Cayce, Jeanne Dixon) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS: PUT TO THE TEST 2 (a psychic detective, a hypnotist who rids people of acrophobia, and a Russian doctor who uses extrasensory diagnosis) Wednesday, July 23 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: STRANGE INVASIONS (it lists calltle mutilations, UFOs, etc.) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES I -- PART 2 (Edgar Cayce, Jeanne Dixon) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS: PUT TO THE TEST 2 (a psychic detective, a hypnotist who rids people of acrophobia, and a Russian doctor who uses extrasensory diagnosis) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#28): 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK: ANCIENT PROPHECIES II -- PART 1 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS -- MYSTERY WEEK, WOLFMAN -- THE MYTH AND THE SCIENCE 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS Thursday, July 24 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Visions of Mary(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY--PROPHECIES WEEK: ANCIENT PROPHECIES II -- PART 1 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS -- MYSTERY WEEK, WOLFMAN -- THE MYTH AND THE SCIENCE 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049) 5:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, TRAVELERS: HAUNTED HAPPENINGS, SALEM, MASSACHUSETTS 6:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PUZZLE OF THE PYRAMIDS 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY -- PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES II -- PART 2 (Paul Solomon, Leonard Toye, Virgin Mary sightings) 10:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS -- MYSTERIES WEEK, ALIEN ENCOUNTER (what would contact with aliens mean?) 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: Friday, July 25 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PUZZLE OF THE PYRAMIDS 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY -- PROPHECIES WEEK, ANCIENT PROPHECIES II -- PART 2 (Paul Solomon, Leonard Toye, Virgin Mary sightings) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS -- MYSTERIES WEEK, ALIEN ENCOUNTER (what would contact with aliens mean?) 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE QUEST, PSYCHIC SCIENCE 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS--MYSTERIES WEEK: UFO 11:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE QUEST, PSYCHIC SCIENCE This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:45:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 >Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:42:08 -0400 >Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article >THERE IS SOMETHING MAJOR GOING ON FOLKS, AND WE HAVE TO GET SERIOUS, >AND SOON! I am in emphatic agreement with you here, John. I listened to Michael Lindemann's critical analysis of Derrel Sims' handling the fragment research done by Dr. Russel Vernon Clark and I would have to agree that his failure to answer questions post presentation and the fact that Dr. Clark was whisked away from the lecture was not "good science". This succeeded in doing nothing but pissing off the press. Even so I don't think Dennis Stacy's overemphasized castigation of Derrel Sims was warranted as I am not ready to say that Derrel Sims is more of liability than an asset to scientific UFO research. However, Richard Hoagland (who is supposed to be a scientist) could easily have used his influence, like you say, to encourage the investigation of an apparently serious incident that occurred over Phoenix three months ago. Instead Hoagland served up a nonesense-fest with predictions and, aligning of the parallels, and his hyperdimensionsal physics and, God knows what else which resulted in what could have been a much less tolerant article in the Arizona Republic. The little scientific research of the UFO subject that is being done (praise FUFOR!) is precious and is constantly being threatened by the visible and highly celebrated lunacy that sticks to the subject. All the attention seeking, prophetic, new agie, channeling, remote viewing, astrology crazed, peudo scientific charlatans out there that claim to be "UFO researchers" damage the research (yes, I'm talking about you, Morton). The bullshit stacks up so fast in this field you need wings to stay above it. What's even more disconcerting is when the scientists don't do proper science. We simply don't have the luxury of being able to apply religious interpretation to it all or being able assess it's spiritual meaning or whatever until it's firmly proven and the mainstream scientific community and society as a whole is forced to deal with the fact that it's real. Carl Sagan was right when he said P R O T E C T T H E S C I E N C E!! I think the man had something there. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 02:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:47:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:15:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:05:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' > I'm glad to hear the signatures will be delivered as promised. Respectfully, > may I suggest you or Kent post a copy of the cover letter, if there was one, > accompanying the signatures be posted to this list. There was a cover letter to the legislative rep at the White House as well as one to President Clinton. I no longer have copies of the letters (they went with the petitions) or I would certainly get permission to post them. Kent is on a trip at the moment and when he returns I will ask about getting the text posted to the list. > Regarding your "due course" comment, I can't speak to that. However, it's > certainly a good question which I'll defer to Bob Shell or someone else to > answer if they so choose. It really was more of a rhetorical question. > I did not say Kent was guilty of being a debunker from the start. I was > paraphrasing Bob Shell's comments which were as follows: "If you want to debunk something (Roswell) how about injecting a person into it, have that person use all the buzz words and make himself "Mr. Whatever"......then say the Air Force was right all along" > Bob went on to say he wasn't accusing Kent of anything, but we should > consider this a possible scenario. You don't have to directly accuse anyone of anything for a statement or thought to be "made." The allegation Bob made was dealt with by several of us, if I remember correctly. There weren't too many people who bought into the idea that Bob tried to convey. > Regarding Kents tactics now vs his paper on the AA film, in my opinion > they are the same. As Kevin Randle and others have pointed out, and I > fully agree, his arguments and logic on which he draws his conclusions > are extremely weak and faulty. I agree somewhat about Kent's latest paper, but I think his paper on the AA film was brilliant and has not been refuted to my satisfaction. > He makes what I consider to be walleyed assumptions which makes it very > difficult to believe his intent is anything OTHER THAN debunkary. It is > this same brand of quantum leap assumptions Kent tried to apply to the > AA film, as alluded to by Mr. Santilli in his Feb. 20, 1996 letter. Quantum leap assumptions in the SCAM article? I don't think so. He had some things in there people didn't agree with (his thoughts on what life would look like) but the interviews with 3 cameramen from WWII was not assumption. > I believe Kent wants to get the truth, whatever that is, out of the > Government just as we all do. However, he seems to go to extraordinary > lengths to refute the very things which capture the public's interest, > which is the most effective way to put pressure on the Government. I agree that we must get the public interested in order to put pressure on the government. But let's do it with the body of the evidence, rather than specific cases. Roswell is far from the be all - end all UFO Case. Just because people are interested in it, and just because it is popular, does not make it real. And besides the government has made it's opinion of Roswell pretty clear -- CASE CLOSED. But take the thousands of pilot sightings, the hundreds of EM effect cases, the ground trace cases and get excited and interested in those. Evidence isn't just ONE case, it's the thousands of cases. > His actions contradict what he says, thus the scorn. Why kill the Golden > Goose that delivers the trump card of public interest and pressure > regardless of whether or not you personally believe Roswell and the AA > film are the real thing. Because Kent is an honest man. He did whatever he felt was necessary to reach his conclusions and made them public. I think he felt morally obligated to do that. If it had been me, I probably would have sent the petitions in, with little fanfare and not said anything other than they had been sent in, but Kent is his own person. It was HIS Initiative. He paid for it and he can do whatever he likes. He didn't come out with his opinion because he thought it would make him popular, he came out with it because he BELIEVES he is correct. > Frankly, I for one am tired of waiting for another anything to drop out > of the sky to prove intelligent life exists beyond our own, > which ultimately is all of our objectives. I don't have the need to prove it to anyone other than myself. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Agai From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:33:33 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:57:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Agai >Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:23 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 14:05:30 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >>With responses like this, you apparently don't care what your fellow >>UpDates subscribers think either. >No, Vince. I have singled you out for not caring. You and your views >are of no concern to me. I treat people as individuals and respond in >kind. Those who treat me with respect get respect back. I do not require your respect, nor do you require mine. But I would also like to know the answer to that question as I'm sure others on this list would also. Regarding the 'Santilli Alien autopsy film', have you examined actual film frames that include the alleged alien image? Dave Everett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted From: JD <gilgamesh@cyberconnect.com> [Jason DeGraf] Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:45:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:59:07 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:38:05 +0300 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO/Nazis Bibliography: help wanted >>Dear Friends, >> I am preparing a comprehensive bibliography devoted to two main subjects : >>1) German Secret Weapons of WWII >>2) The so-called "UFO/Nazis" legend (mainly related to the alleged German >>"saucer" projects). >> In order to make the bibliography as complete as possible I am asking th e >>help of every member of this list. Those interested should be so kind to >>prepare a list of all the magazine articles he owns or knows about both >>subjects above, possibly under this form: Book not a magazine.... William Lyne -- 'Space Aliens From the Pentagon' This may be a very hard book to find ISBN 0-9637467-1-5 Published by CREATOPIA PRODUCTIONS. He claims that Tesla first invented the saucers in 1895. Highly technical information based on many Tesla designs, and Teslas idea of his 'flying stove', free energies from the upper atmosphere etc etc. There is also NAZI-UFO info, but I have just started the book and have not reached that point yet. There are refrences to magazines that Lynne has appeared in and newspapers, that may be more of what you are after. If anybody has any info on this Lynne fellow, I'd like to hear your opinion. Thanks Jason DeGraf http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Alfred's Odd Ode #156 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:12:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:00:19 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #156 Apology to MW #156 (For July 19, 1997) Everything has its own special significance, Some watch the terror from comfortable chairs. Some are consumed with their own contribution. They are wasting in dark hallways, they are falling down dark stairs. We're locked in our factoids of cognitive dissonance. We cheapen our contract with those that we fear. We keep them walled out from our pampered enclosure. We wear from *current* wardrobes, discard what most hold dear. I'm watching the best give in to despair. Some declare their surrender. There is always tomorrow, a truth it could bring. Though wounded minus recompense, wound in bunkie fetters. The air is filled with laughter that is whistled past the graveyard By those insisting science understands. Those that then restrict themselves --=20 To shallow little channels, and narrow little bands. The Multiverse still stares unblinkingly. It underscores your strife. It's meaning is that quantum leap, Beyond your mere indifference, beyond your crafted life. One hundred thousand chances in this galaxy alone. . . A big dark room we sit in all the time!!! We have the smallest candle lit, And it flickers in the breath of those t'would muff our chime! We wrongly think we crown creation. Our *dominion* is wrong minded. We whistle past our graveyards too deep in debt to science; I want to look another place where science will not find it. =20 It's not the bee's knees, and it's not the cool beans That it _sells_ itself to *each*, and *every* mote. Traditionally, to solve just one problem, in itself will make three. Adherence to it's guidelines wraps it's fingers round your throat! It's not the science anyway, it's the men who say they use it. The ones who plant disease to watch effect. The ones who profit hugely at an undeserved expense. The ones enthusiastic as they as they strike you from their list.=20 It's time to wrest control away from those who should not have it. It's time to live our moments as we will. It's time to give away what you thought you sold today It's time to make new friends, it's time to risk a thrill. Lehmberg@snowhill.com=20 So what do you want from me -- I'm a liberal. I think people are set up to fail, lured or trapped into buffoonery they do not deserve, and sold a phony baloney value system to cover incontinent covert conspiracy.=20 Whew! --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for being classically liberal. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:11:44 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:02:35 -0400 Subject: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:00:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' --- NOT!!! >PS. BTW, I had not heard of Kent Jeffrey prior to the Roswell Initiative, >but how does that make him guilty of being a debunker from the start? Rebecca, I agree. But let me say this. Kent is obviously a bright, intelligent, well-educated man. However, his conclusions are truly unfounded, irrational and illogical. This leads me to believe he came to the Ufology "community" with a pre-planned goal, which is coined "Debunkery" <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Bursting the Balloon From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:11:50 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:03:44 -0400 Subject: Bursting the Balloon >Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:18 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >The whole premise of the report seems to be that people confused >events which occurred from 1956 through 1972 in their minds, and then >got this all balled up and confused with a balloon crash in 1947. It's called "DISINFORMATION", Bob. It's exactly what the Air Force, McAndrew and the other debunkers want you to think! Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:24:41 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:34:27 -0400 Subject: UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers Dear List: Please pardon this commercial interlude while wondering whatever happened to Ed Komarek and the search for glacier-buried alien skeletons...hey, are we due an update or whut? Writing in the Summer 1997 issue of IUR, the International UFO Reporter, editor Jerry Clark called it "the best UFO book, so far, of 1997," which is high praise, indeed, considering that this has been The Year of the UFO Book. In an equally glowing review in Fortean Times #101, Andy Roberts said that "the names here represent the cream of the serious ufological crop and whether you choose to believe them or not, these people know what they are talking about." But FT *would* like it, wouldn't they? Hell, they published the damned thing. Need another endorsement? While sweating through the Roswell UFO Encounter '97, I dropped by the International UFO Museum and Research Center on Main Street, thinking (rather naively, as it turned out) that they might want to carry UFOs 1947-1997 among the many other wares sold at their very busy gift ship. Whoops on my part! Turns out I'd apparently said something bad about the museum's present president, never mind that the book buyer told me that they "wanted to present both sides of the issue." But apparently not this side. In short, no sale--all because of one paragraph out of a 272-page book. And they accuse the Air Force of censorship. Their loss, however, is your gain. As it so happens, I co-edited UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers with Hilary Evans. I also bought the print overrun from the English publisher, which has just arrived, and so am now able to offer copies of this handsome, illustrated hardback for $27.95 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. Make checks or money orders payable to Dennis Stacy, PO Box 12434, San Antonio, Texas 78212. Contrbutors include me, Evans, Clark, Chris Rutkowski, Kenneth Arnold, Jacques Vallee, Col. Hector Quintanilla, Richard F. Haines, Patrick Huyghe, Michael Swords, Jenny Randles, John Rimmer, Cynthia Hind, Jim Moseley, Karl Pflock, Bill Chalker, Jan Aldrich, Robert Durant, Ray Fowler, David Perkins, Marc Hallet, Wim Van Utrecht, Vladimir Rubtsov, Anders Liljegren, Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos and the proverbial "others," thirty all total. In other words, it's a global look at the last 50 years of a very perplexing phenomenon, one sure to have something to intrigue and/or offend everyone. And following Moseley's lead: ask for an autograph and I'll knock off a dollar. Dennis [Kaa-ching! Uh, Dennis. Lessee..... per single spot rate for a one time run on UpDates..... hmmm, {looks at rate card}..... ah, here we are..... US$30.95. So, that works out to one copy, autographed to 'Errol & Sue' (with usual complimentary comments about 'The List' and other warm-fuzzies, etc.) postage paid to the address on the card I gave you in Roswell. Or, of course, one international money order (in US Dollars) in said amount, instead. We'd also be happy to runs spots for The Anomalist _and_ Patrick's new book (provided the artwork is good). - ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Request for information From: RobertC130@aol.com [Bob Canino] Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 18:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:40:13 -0400 Subject: Request for information I am a researcher in Central New York doing extensive research on what appears to be a wave of sightings in Upstate NY and Southern Ontario (St. Lawrence area) that happened around May 28 ro thereabouts of this year. So far we have uncovered three different videotapes of ufo activity that night and two appear to be sthe same objects in the same formation as the Pheonix Lights (the Phoenix Skywatch crew has viewed the video and has assented on this point). I would welcome input from any Candian investigators in specific or anyone in general that might have information on sightings in that specific area (St. Lawrence Valley or thereabouts) for the last week in May. Thanks Bob Canino
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 The Unmentionable Dr... From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:33:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:26:34 -0400 Subject: The Unmentionable Dr... The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. About a year ago a post by Yrs Trly to UpDates contained the following (one name has been censored): "I will wager with Doc B----, payable via our esteemed Keeper of the List, my ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS IN US CURRENCY (US$1000) to his ONE DOLLAR IN US CURRENCY (US$1.00) that no national government on Earth or agency thereof publicly and officially discloses, on the record, "UFO reality" before midnight GMT on 23 April 1997. This wager and payment of this sum by either party is conditional "(a) on Dr B---- defining, by midnight GMT on 30 July 1996, under no more than 10 heads and in no more than 1000 words what he means by "UFO reality" and "public disclosure" in terms acceptable to Errol Bruce Knapp (who shall be sole judge of the winner of this wager) "(b) on the understanding that the terms "UFO reality" and "public disclosure" refer to specific, proven and provable facts, data, information and/or artefacts, and exclude: opinions, by whomsoever made; vague generalizations and speculations (e.g. "Something is going on but we don't know what it is", "It is a mathematical certainty that we are not alone in the Universe", &c); comment or opinion from officials made in a personal capacity; announcements of programmes by governments or their agents to investigate UFOs; interpretations by others of official statements in terms of conspiracy theory, untestable hypotheses or any form of double think, unreasonable inference or multiplication of hypotheses." Now I know that Doc B----'s name is not supposed to be mentioned in our polite and delicate [sic] company, and Errol will probably give me a detention for even hinting at it; and I also know that the (here's a CLUE) King of the Hot Tubbers somehow overlooked the matter of putting up his dollar; but I'm curious to know if any more of this revelation of "UFO reality" has been heard of from He-Whose- Name-We-Dare-Not-Speak. If you can escape Errol's eagle eye, I'll be behind the bike sheds at break having a Senior Service [1] and giving out tips for the runners at Aintree [2] tomorrow, and you can tell me then. Yours &c (squiggle) pp Mendoza Turf Accountants Ltd [3] "Honest Peat Always Pays"--US Customs _____________________________________ [1] a British cigarette [2] a horse-track, near Liverpool [3] bookmaking company - formerly owned by Prince Monolulu - ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:34:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:33:42 -0400 Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - Discussion with John Velez NightWatch has just had the great honor and pleasure to present: A Discussion with John Velez ! Following is the transcript from the one hour discussion held on 7/18/97 from 8-9 PM EST in the NightWatch "Aside" Chat Room: Max Q Baker (MQB, hereafter): Hello everyone and welcome to our discussion. Please note that anyone who posts a question - whether personal in nature or not - will not be identified by their name in the final transcript. All people will be identified simply by the word "question". Also please note that anything John says is protected under copyright laws and can not be reproduced without his permission. And with those formalities aside... John, on behalf of NightWatch, Mike Fulstone and I would like to welcome you and thank you for taking the time out of your very busy schedule to discuss the issue of alien abductions with us, and to answer some of the following questions which were sent to you. John Velez: Glad to do it, thank you for having me. MQB: First off, though, could you take a moment to introduce yourself so that our readers/viewers can get to know you a little better? John Velez: I'm 48 years old, married 28 years, father of two, daughter Jeanine 24, son James 22, and 21 month old grandson James Tyler. I have lived in NYC all of my life. I worked in human services for ten years as a crisis intervention counselor, director of a residential drug rehab for Phoenix House, founded the first treatment facility in New York for Viet Nam veterans returning from the war addicted, (1973) and created the first "food bank' to feed the needy and the homeless in 1977 for the "Project Return" Foundation. I also have sixteen years experience as a graphic artist and lithographer. For the last five years I have worked closely and assisted Budd Hopkins in his work with abductees. I am currently webmaster of the Intruders Foundation website and I'm trying to develop my own graphics business so that I can support my work with the abductees. I plan to continue counseling abduction experiencers, do UFO/Abduction related speaking engagements, and offer my graphic art services to the public. MQB: That's a lot of very good work that you've done, and a lot of positive experience you carry with you. In regards to your current projects, aren't you also working on an exciting new website of your own? John Velez: Yes, the new website! It's not open yet but when it is folks will be able to access it via the Intruders Foundation website. MQB: Intruders Foundation webpage, which is: http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html Now, tell me ... if you had to get a key point across in one sentence regarding the phenomenon of alien abductions, what would it be? John Velez: It's a very real phenomenon! People need to know, it's as simple as that. MQB: On a PBS program which gave an overview of Mr. Hopkins and his work, he was shown interviewing children of adult abductees. In the interview process he was asking leading and obvious questions to very young children. The host pointed out the technique he was using was clearly to solicit the answers he wanted from these children who could barely even speak. It made him look very bad, as it was blatantly manipulative on his part. My question: How does he (and others like him) answer to these types of criticisms in the media? Does he have a legitimate justification, or was he truly - simply being manipulative? John Velez: I agree with the first part of your question/remark that Budds comments to the child were in fact leading. I can only say that in my personal experience in dealing with Budd on my own case he has never "led" or tried to "lead" me in any way at all. I am a trained and experienced counselor and I was always listening for it. Budd's an honest guy and I've never heard anyone mention that they felt they had been 'led' or manipulated' in any way. As to how Budd and "others like him" answer these things, you'll have to ask them! I can't "answer" for Budd. (Or anyone else) MQB: Mr. Hopkins research has also suggested that a percentage of abductees have had abusive relationships in their background. Is this CONTINUING to be a trend found in a percentage of their clients and if so, what "percentage" of abductees, and to what do they attribute this trend? John Velez: No 'definitive' study has been conducted in terms of cataloging such data nor has a statistical analysis been performed. The "percentage" of abductees with 'abuse' as a part of their family history is an unknown and has not yet been determined. This lack of available data also points out the need for "basic" research into this phenomenon. My best 'guess' would be that there are as many 'abductees' with abuse in their backgrounds as there are within the general population. I'd say that's a safe guess, because 'abductees' are just ordinary people. MQB: What can you tell us of a case he was involved in a few years ago of a diplomat and his limo driver witnessing a young woman actually being abducted and being levitated out of her apartment window here in the US? John Velez: Budds book on the case has been out for almost a year. Read "Witnessed, The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge Abduction" By Budd Hopkins, It'll answer any questions that you may have about the case. MQB: Do you have any thoughts on why are there no clear photographs or videos of UFOs? There are many photographs and videos available, and some are even said to be legitimate, but they are always unclear, fuzzy, or whoever was holding the video had a debilitating shaking disease of some kind. With as many professional photographers out there who are interested in this phenomenon, one would think they would be able to capture on video some striking details, perhaps even from the well-publicized Phoenix sightings. John Velez: Oh, oh, you haven't been doing your homework! There is some excellent video and photographic evidence available. I recommend "Voyagers of the Sixth Sun" It's stuff that has been analyzed and deemed to be genuine "UFO's" meaning that these things are (not) conventional aircraft or a hoax. (No one can say with authority that they are 'extraterrestrial.') If you want to download a videoclip of the March 13th 1997 mass sighting over the city of Phoenix you can do so on the world wide web at: http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm It is also my opinion that the mass sighting in Phoenix will prove to be a watershed event. MQB: Getting down to the more important issue of abductions themselves, what physical or emotional after-effects (especially those that can be documented) have you found to be the most prevalent in abductions? John Velez: (In/during) abductions I guess it depends on the individual. Some folks report relatively benign or even uplifting experiences, while others recall being frightened and abused. (After the fact) it's usually confusion, self doubt and thinking that you must be going crazy. That's pretty applicable across the board. the discovery of ones involvement shatters your world view into several thousand tiny pieces. It takes time to put it all back together. MQB: And using a "hindsight 20/20" rule, after people realize they have had abduction experiences that have been repressed, are there a series of factors that you can say they all had in common as far as experiences, symptoms, memories, fears, life changes, visionary feelings (etc.) - that seem to be indications of consistent repressed abduction or alien encounter? John Velez: Yes, it is in fact these 'corroborating factors' that you mention that occur from person to person that make this a "phenomenon" at all! That, and unexplained partial (or complte) conscious memories that stretch back in memory to early childhood and continue on into adulthood. It is the ("partial but consciously recalled memories") the ones that are carried throughout life that allow one to finally 'make the connection' when confronted with information or knowledge of the abduction scenario. Folks don't just suddenly wake up one morning and decide that they've been abducted by aliens! It's a lifetime of unexplained strange occurrences, and unexplained strange events. Events and memories that ONLY the abduction scenario answers completely. As "crazy" as it may sound, when I learned about the details of alien abduction ALL of these (heretofore) unexplained experiences finally made sense! <G> MQB: Could these factors be used as a "loose guideline" for others - who do not think they have ever had an abduction experience - to consider the possibility more seriously? John Velez: Yes, a comprehensive listing of these "corroborating details" are available in Dr David Jacobs excellent book on the subject, "Secret Lives." I highly recommend it for those who seek information on the patterns (memory and otherwise) that are unique to, and associated with, alien abduction. Actually, Davids book is the 'definitive work' on that aspect of it. MQB: As for the aliens themselves, there have been said to be three types of aliens, greys, lizard like tall ones, and some other type. Are these images common among abductees who remember their experiences? Do these people ever get told anything of what is going on and why this is happening to them - and if so - what? John Velez: There have been more than just the three types that you have mentioned reported throughout the years and throughout the world. Some types of aliens are more frequently reported than others. (The Greys for example.) Some types are reported more often than others sometimes by country of origin. The Europeans for instance have a higher percentage of reported Human like or humanoid aliens than Greys. In the USA that situation is reversed with Grey aliens being more commonly reported than the humanoid type. Although both of these (and others) are reported here. Some folks claim to have been told and shown things by the aliens, I am of the opinion that we shouldn't trust anything the aliens tell us until it has been determined (with confidence) what their motives are in abducting our citizens against their will. Until I have an answer to that, I will withold my 'trust.' MQB: Not all the abduction cases are said to be abusive to the abductee. In some cases, they are said to be shown beautiful sights in other dimensions or worlds, and even come out of the experience having strong positive feelings about life and the environment. Are there different classes of aliens that seem to be associated with different types of abduction phenomenon? John Velez: I believe that it has more to do with individual psychology than anything else.. In "normal" waking life not all people deal with the same things in the same way. Some have better 'coping skills' than others. It's the same with how one perceives or learns to cope with the reality of alien intervention into ones life. Different strokes for different folks.We have to maintain an open mind not only in regard to the phenomenon itself, but with each other as well. MQB: What, if any, biological changes occur in abductees? Are there any consistent or semi-consistent changes in DNA, blood type, current illnesses, immunity to illnesses, radiation levels, etc? John Velez: Again, a definitive study has NOT been conducted (by anyone) in order to make these determinations. This is important data that needs to be cataloged and studied. It points out the glaring need for basic research and it is something that I have been working very hard to raise consciousness about. We need a serious investigation now! What is happening to us today, could be happening to you or yours tomorrow. It's a matter of utmost urgency for ALL. Just ask yourself this,..."what if we're not all crazy or hallucinating and everything we're reporting is true!" Don't you think we ought to take the time to _find out_ one way or another? I do. MQB: Regarding "Implants". If so many people have received alien implants, where is there conclusive documented proof of their existence (the implants) and what they are? If they are real and have been seen by real doctors and examined in science labs, why isn't this considered proof of alien existence? John Velez: Go to the Intruders Foundation website and check out the data, the x-rays, implants, doctors reports, analysis results, and then go to Whitley Striebers site and look for more. I think you're in for a surprise or a shock, which one, depends on you I suppose. MQB: And how is it, that after all the abductions that have been made public, there are so many who simply do not believe that they are real? Often the phrase "just anecdotal" is used to dismiss out-of-hand those whose lives have been turned upside-down because of their encounters. What can be said to the skeptics without falling into their "prove it to me" trap? John Velez: After almost five years of deep involvement in trying to educate/condition the public about the alien presence on OUR world, I have arrived at the conclusion that THE ONLY THING that will convince people completely is an overt demonstration on the part of the aliens. One that would be undeniable to ALL, and tantamount to an open declaration of their presence here. It is my belief that NOTHING short of (that) will do. It's (sadly) just the way it is, and just about what it's going to take. In the (final) analysis, it really is, "up to them!" (The aliens) Why do some people believe in Allah and some in Jesus or Buddha, or nothing at all? I can't answer why someone believes or another one doesn't believe. To tell you the truth, I don't care whether anyone "believes me" or not. I have lived up to the dictates of my conscience by reporting to my fellow creatures what is going on with myself and my family. What people do with that information afterwards is entirely up to them. I did what I had to do, and paid a price to do it. As for the hard core skeptics, nothing short of an alien rectal probe is going to convince _them_ of anything! <G> MQB: This is more of a "karmic" question, but do you think that abductees may have had a prior agreement with the greys - to work with them in this lifetime? If not, why would anyone (i.e. the greys) choose to do this to us? John Velez: No, I don't think that I, or anyone else, made some kind "prior" agreement/contract with the Greys to allow the lifetime of abductions. It is my belief that it's a bit of "New Age" fluff that the "all knowing enlightened ones" have been dishing out as a kind of pablum or tranquilizer. I'm pissed and I want to stay that way until we all learn (for sure) what's going on. We need to empower ourselves, not give in to what may be a premature and total submission. MQB: Recently, it was rumored that you have distanced yourself from Budd Hopkins and the Intruders Foundation. Is this true, and if "yes". then how would you like this split to be perceived by the interested public? John Velez: Yes, it's true. It is something that I did for reasons I have posted elsewhere. If folks are genuinely interested they can go to the UFO UpDates archive and look up my posts. UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates Suffice it to say that it was (my choice) and that there is no 'bad blood' between Budd and myself. He was surprized and upset when I told him that I was leaving. We both love and respect one another, our relationship has been based on it. He had chosen me for the work and allowed me to represent him, there is no higher compliment or vote of confidence that one man can give another. It's simply time for me to move on. MQB: And that actually ... is the end of the formal questions that we had given to John ahead of time... John, I know you are busy and making the time to join us tonight was probably very difficult... But if you would like to add anything ... or if anyone in the chat room has any questions... John Velez: You've got me for another 20 mins' If anyone would like to ask follow ups I'm open. Question: John, what could be the purpose of abductions? If these aliens are so advanced, why would they need to conduct repeated tests on the human race? John Velez: I don't know! The sad truth of it all is that NO ONE KNOWS what these guys are up to or why they are abducting our people. Question: What of the rumor that the government has made a pact with aliens? I.e.: so much technology for so many abductions. John Velez: You'd have to ask one of the "Conspiracy" guys. I'm not much on paranoia, government or otherwise! Question: Could I ask you when was the last time you were taken? John Velez: I "think" it was about three years ago, but who knows! One of the nasty features about this abduction business is the fact that it's hard to remember much detail afterwards. Catch 22! Question: Have there been reliable accounts of experiences with aliens that never involve physical encounters - i.e. no experiments or UFO involved? In other words, mental only? Also, what do you think becomes of the hybrids when they reach maturity? We only hear about the fetus to childhood? John Velez: First, I've never heard of a "mental abduction" don't know what it is so I won't resond to that one. Secondly, we don't know what happens to the hybrids or even why they are being created. Lookout though, anyone who claims to have THE answers to (those questions) is probably going to try to sell you Amway products too! <G> Question: The aliens always seem to be able to breathe our air - is it odd that they would have the same mixture of gases where they are originating? John Velez: If I were an alien I might be able to tell you. We know very little about these beings or their purposes. Again, that's why I work so hard to get some serious and basic research done. Got time for one or two more. Question: In addressing cases you have researched where abductions have occurred from generation to generation in families, what is the largest group of abductees that you have encountered among related family members in other words how many generations has it effected John Velez: From what Budd has told me, three generations in one case he had worked on. Grandmother, daughter, and grand daughter. John Velez: I have time for one more question. MQB: John - is it true that abductees often experience unusual nose bleeds or discover other small wounds or burns that they can not explain? John Velez: Oh yeah! I've been communicating with two doctors who assure me that the "scoop marks" (little round crater like wounds) are not "normal" in appearance. It turns out that they are "Punch biopsies" the difference between the ones on the bodies of the abductees and procedures performed by earthly physicians is, the marks on the abductees do not appear over diseased tissue! This is significant because 99.9 percent of punch biopsies are performed in order to diagnose skin cancers and the like. The marks on the abductees appear over "healthy tissue" there is no medical reason for them to have been performed other than to gather genetic material. That, according to the two university physicians I am currently communicating with is "highly unusual" and what prompted them to contact me in the first place. MQB: That's amazing information! But now, we seem to be about out of time... John, thank you again for taking this time to speak with everyone here this evening. This is a heated, emotional, and often misunderstood topic, and we appreciate everything you have done and will continue to do to help educate the public about the plain-truth existence of aliens and the trauma that results from these abductions. We wish you and your family love, health, happiness, and peace - and much success in all your endeavors - including your soon-to-be new website at: http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html which we hope everyone has a chance to visit and take advantage of. And beyond that - all I have to say is thank you very much for coming tonight. It has been a real honor and a pleasure to have had this unique opportunity:) John Velez: Thank you for having me! Dr David Jacobs, "Secret Lives": <br> The site listed below currently has an intelligent review of this book for anyone who is interested. http://www.iac.net/~ariev/_ufo/secrets.html Intruder's Foundation -implants info page http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/imprec.html http://www.strieber.com/ Whitley Strieber's homepage John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: meccam@erols.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 08:15:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:38:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > From: Andromeda0@aol.com > Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:35:07 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:35:15 -0500 > >Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:42:08 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > >THERE IS SOMETHING MAJOR GOING ON FOLKS, AND WE HAVE TO GET SERIOUS, > >AND SOON! > <Most snipped> > The little scientific research of the UFO subject that is being done > (praise FUFOR!) is precious and is constantly being threatened by the > visible and highly celebrated lunacy that sticks to the subject. All > the attention seeking, prophetic, new agie, channeling, remote > viewing, astrology crazed, peudo scientific charlatans out there that > claim to be "UFO researchers" damage the research (yes, I'm talking > about you, Morton). The bullshit stacks up so fast in this field you > need wings to stay above it. > We simply don't have the luxury of being able to apply religious > interpretation to it all or being able assess it's spiritual meaning > or whatever until it's firmly proven and the mainstream scientific > community and society as a whole is forced to deal with the fact that > it's real. I submit that we don't have the time to ONLY pursue the subject scientifically, ignoring half our awareness in favor of only that which is measureable or demonstrable to the logical brain. Think I have to agree with one of John Mack's statements here - he stated that the phenomena exists in both the practical, verifiable world and the interdimensional world, and that it will not yield its secrets to skeptics because those people are highly invested in not having their world view changed by information that does not fit neatly into the boundaries of consensual reality. You can extend that to add "those who will not look beyond science to the dimensions of purpose, intent, and extensions of the day to day reality." We only perceive a small portion of what is real with the everyday logical workings of the mind. It bothers me a little bit to hear many people in this field giving a knee-jerk put-down to "New Age" or avenues of knowledge that may be accepted by spiritual traditions. How many abductees have related out-of body experiences, seeing the visitors as balls of light, telepathy, mind control, and a varied assortment of understandings received from the visitors, directly or indirectly, about aspects of space, time, the nature of the soul and its relation to the body, etc. etc.? Science is not really up to snuff in any of these areas - it may catch up (if there's enough time!) one day, but by then we may be eating at the same dinner table with the ET guests. I can understand the tendency to hold fast only to what can be proven scientifically - it stems from the drive to prove the phenomenon to the populace, to get mainstream science moving with research, and to lend respectability to one's time and efforts by assuring those people that one is not a wild-eyed wacko, because the same time-honored scientific methods are employed as for analysis of other phenomena. But this can easily get out of hand. To quote Budd Hopkins "It took Ufologists 20 years to realize that UFOs had an inside!" It's clear that all of the visitors are pretty damn cagey. Their presence here has enormous implications for our human identity and history, our perceptions of what this universe holds, and damned if it doesn't seem like "consensual reality" is changing and will likely change radically in the not too distant future (no dates - I'm not a channeler - :) ) If we don't give ourselves permission to pursue the questions "why" and "what does it mean" we'll still be trying to measure propulsion systems if and when the visitors become a fact of life for everyone on the planet. It's simple prudence to being "preparing for contact" - that is an internal process for which everyone must find his or her own way. I look at it as a life experiment, at the least, similar to Pascal's wager, but without the threat of hell waiting at the other end! I'm not endorsing any particular person, organization, or method of knowing, but if one allows the assumption that the soul is immortal, one can conclude in a nano-second that science can't cut it in the context of the greater reality. It's like the drunk looking under the lamp post for his keys because there's light there, even though he dropped them on the street in the dark! And if one does not allow that the soul is immortal, then one just has to learn to enjoy that self-limited state as an animated piece of meat, and practice flying with one wing. In that case, I have to quote the Buddha responding to skeptics by saying "If you feel no pain, I cannot help you." Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 08:56:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:40:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:33:33 +1000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again [text deleted] >I do not require your respect, nor do you require mine. But I would also >like to know the answer to that question as I'm sure others on this list >would also. >Regarding the 'Santilli Alien autopsy film', have you examined actual film >frames that include the alleged alien image? >Dave Everett Why is this question being raised, unless it is simply to make a point? Of course, if that is the case, I would suggest that the point has been made many times before and is relatively boring at this point. It is well known among those who have followed this particular issue that Ray/Volker have never allowed any of the "film with image" to be examined or tested. Period. Several sections of film, without image (or date code, I believe) have been sent by Ray for testing, but even if they are proven to be from 1947 film stock, that doesn't mean that the "film with image" is of the same stock. This includes the segment sent to Robert Kiviat, a segment sent to Bob Shell, and a segment given to Philip Mantle that was later forwarded to Italy for chemical testing. Given the lack of hard evidence, and the annecdotal nature of what evidence we have, it is understandable why most people are skeptical of the "film". But there has been no new development regarding the "film" in more than a year, and this constant review of existing information usually becomes a form of personality bashing because some of those involved have been at it for so long. If you have just joined the genre, and haven't gotten the background, there are many good WEB sites on both sides of this issue that can fill in the gap. On the other hand, if you find (or develop) new information regarding the "film", please post it for all to see. But from my perspective, the ball is clearly in Ray's court. As long as the debate continues, he is able to market the images that have already been released. Ray has recently been quoted as saying that he hopes the "cameraman" will agree to come forward and be interviewed and questioned before the end of this year. But since the questions he had been asked were all the same ones that he had been asked before, the answers were also all the same, with the exception of that one small statement. Just a few thoughts from the peanut gallery.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: The Unmentionable Dr... From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:59:25 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:50:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Unmentionable Dr... >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:33:41 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: The Unmentionable Dr... >To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >About a year ago a post by Yrs Trly to UpDates contained the >following (one name has been censored): >"I will wager with Doc B----, payable via our esteemed Keeper of >the List, my ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS IN US CURRENCY (US$1000) to his >ONE DOLLAR IN US CURRENCY (US$1.00) that no national government on >Earth or agency thereof publicly and officially discloses, on the >record, "UFO reality" before midnight GMT on 23 April 1997. This >wager and payment of this sum by either party is conditional Hi Duke, You could have lost your shirt doing such bets. Yesterday I reread 'Aliens from Space' by Don Keyhoe (1973). At the end of the book he says that the Chilean government had admitted to the press that a UFO had landed somewhere in that country. You'll find similar announcements in Timothy Good's book 'Beyond Top Secret' (1996), be it not from governments per se, but from highly ranked military officers from the former Soviet Union, Spain and Belgium. You'll also find that US presidents Carter and Reagan have admitted the reality of UFOs, but I think everybody on this list knows that. Of course, if you would call an average government spokesperson, say from the Spanish Air Force, he would probably not say that UFOs are real. This has nothing to do with cover up or that UFOs don't exist, but the whole subject is simply too embarrassing. Summarizing, while large parts of the UFO community are eager to await a "government announcement" about UFOs, in fact such announcements have already been made. I have not yet drawn my conclusions about what this tells you about the phenonmenon itself - the elusive properties - and about the UFO community. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:40:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:53:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 02:27:29 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' -- NOT!! >I agree somewhat about Kent's latest paper, but I think his paper on the AA >film was brilliant and has not been refuted to my satisfaction. >> He makes what I consider to be walleyed assumptions which makes it very >> difficult to believe his intent is anything OTHER THAN debunkary. It is >> this same brand of quantum leap assumptions Kent tried to apply to the >> AA film, as alluded to by Mr. Santilli in his Feb. 20, 1996 letter. >Quantum leap assumptions in the SCAM article? I don't think so. He had some >things in there people didn't agree with (his thoughts on what life would >look like) but the interviews with 3 cameramen from WWII was not assumption. His interview with three cameramen was well done, but how many cameramen did he actually interview, and what was there selection process. Could he perhaps have found three other cameramen with different views if his goal had been to show that the "film" was real? Several military cameramen have posted information to the "net" that would seem to support the validity of the technique shown, and in the end all of Kent's statements of proof are just as annecdotal as everthing else in this circus. >> I believe Kent wants to get the truth, whatever that is, out of the >> Government just as we all do. However, he seems to go to extraordinary >> lengths to refute the very things which capture the public's interest, >> which is the most effective way to put pressure on the Government. >I agree that we must get the public interested in order to put pressure on >the government. But let's do it with the body of the evidence, rather than >specific cases. Roswell is far from the be all - end all UFO Case. Just >because people are interested in it, and just because it is popular, does not >make it real. And besides the government has made it's opinion of Roswell >pretty clear -- CASE CLOSED. That Kent has changed his position is not an issue here, but there was something to be said for the timing of his announcement and the implications that it raises. Clearly the Air Force wanted to wait until the last minute to release their new "report" so as to offset the Roswell festivities, and Kent's decision to issue his findings in the MUFON Journal raises the same issues. Of course, I would like to know MUFON's position regarding Kent Jeffrey and how that organization now views his research and work. >But take the thousands of pilot sightings, the hundreds of EM effect cases, >the ground trace cases and get excited and interested in those. Evidence >isn't just ONE case, it's the thousands of cases. Well said, but the fact is that the general public will view the entire genre based on information they gather from a few visable sources. Many will incorrectly assume that since one sighting was caused by a secret balloon, that "could" explain the others that have remained "unidentified". Once the decision is made in their minds, it is rarely re-evaluated. How many newspaper reporters do you know that have gone back to re-investigate a sighting after it is shown through research that the initial Air Force statement that the cause was "Venus" turned out to be impossible? That being said, I would agree that there are many other areas of investgation that should be pursued. But Kent seemed to think that the evidence he could gather would lead him to the truth, and that may not be the case. Whether it is the result of some grand conspiracy, or our inability to interpret that evidence, it is entirely possible that we are not able to develop answers that we could understand. IMHO, Our understanding of the universe around us is vast, but sometimes our limitations become clouded by our ego. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:55:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:11:44 GMT Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> To: updates@globalserve.net > However, his conclusions > are truly unfounded, irrational and illogical. This leads > me to believe he came to the Ufology "community" with a > pre-planned goal, which is coined "Debunkery" You may BELIEVE whatever you like. I happen to KNOW that what you BELIEVE is not true. But I can't change your beliefs. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #157 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:18:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:57:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #157 Apology to MW #157 (For July 20, 1997) If you miss a step you sometimes miss And ones wife could hammer down. She owes it to the family She'll do it wearing frowns. She is the smartest of the species She'll flat go all the way. She is unfettered with the ego Plaguing man, it's safe to say. Jodi Foster proves it. She has the rarest courage. She blends the tender with the stellar Our fear dispels discouraged. The finest kind of artist=20 With a bravery unconfined. She lifts, and posts the spirit While she elevates the mind. Trust is what she can portray. She gives it free and clear! You have to see it in the theatre But, see it all and lose some fear! I recommend this movie No waste of precious time. Innocent with CHALLENGE --=20 Improving every mind! See the struggle for the truth Explode the mechanism's dream. See it fly apart like terror; See it shatter like a scream. See the second circles spinning In a dance of space and time. And the evening stars are framed On a beach inside your mind. There are many of them out there Even Carl made that clear. And left alone to your devices, What _would_ you have to fear! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Not near as much as your manipulating culture would have you believe, I'm thinking.=20 I would sit outside Ms. Foster's house in my car hoping for an occasional glimpse of her, but she would have me arrested <g>.=20 . . . Just heard where Bill Gates has 32.7 billy-yun to splash around in. I think that is a little embarrassing, so to speak in a hyperbole of understatement. Bill, can I have a tax free million to do something good with? C'mon, I'll be fun to watch!=20 Or maybe you could help me be the first poet in space! It flat killed me when Jodi said, "They. . .should have sent a poet." I wept in the theatre! I'm weeping now! Not bad for an ex hired killer, eh? --=20 Collected Apologies. . . http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/Lehmberg.html "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:58:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article From: Andromeda0@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:35:07 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: Hoagland in Phoneix -- AZ Republic Article > Even so I don't think Dennis Stacy's overemphasized castigation of > Derrel Sims was warranted as I am not ready to say that Derrel Sims is > more of liability than an asset to scientific UFO research. Stacy went easy on Sims, IMO. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:50:21 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:05:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:09:45 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) > Subject: Report on Great Roswell Loonfest > Just... back... circuits... overloaded... attempting... download... > Mission accomplished: A Research Center expeditionary force (2 adults > & 3 children) successfully penetrated Roswell at the height of the > Great Loonfest and got out alive. We lasted only about 20 hours in > town. We were charmed, then amused, then annoyed, then SCREAMING TO > GET THE HELL OUT. > We couldn't get near the "International UFO Museum and Research > Center", but since I had been there a couple of years ago, I don't > think I missed anything. This is also a big alien souvenir outlet. > They do sell some books, too, but I was told by a journalist that they > decline to sell any book that is critical of the Roswell crash claims > -- only those that toe the "party line." Is this research or religion? [snip] Re Glenn Campbell: I hadn't realized that Glenn Campbell is psychic. He knows what was in the Roswell museum because he was there 2 years ago. Fact is the facility has moved into amuch larger museum and has many new exhibits. He spent 20 hours and knows what was in the lectures though he heard none of the dozen. Amazing. I surely didn't show slides when I was on Art Bell.Personally I spent 5 days there and thought the people were great and both museums were busy. I did only spend a few minutes in the exhibit area looking for someone.. guess Glenn wasn't interested in data only merchandise..Nothing like a rush to judgement. Perhaps he was jealous of those of us besieged by interviewers. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 29 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:07:49 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 29 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 29 July 20, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor SAUCER CRASHES IN BRAZIL'S MATO GROSSO DO SUL On Tuesday night, July 1, 1997, residents of the rural district of Nova Brasilandia, located in the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso do Sul, saw "an incandescent object" in the sky. The object crashed close to Teresopolis, a town near the Rio Sao Manuel, approximately 300 kilometers (180 miles) north of Cuiaba, the state capital. Isaias Rezenda, a former state representative for Mato Grosso do Sul, told the newspaper Correio Braziliense on a ranch belonging to Divino Fogoio. On Monday, July 7, 1997, two journalist teams tried to enter the property, but were warned off by Sr. Fogoio, who reportedly "told them he could allow access only to personnel authorized by Brazil's federal government." "Sr. Fogoio, however, confirms the reports from people who saw an incandescent object coming in over the region, causing a 'tremendous bang' that not only shook his house but also was heard at a distance of of over 100 kilometers (60 miles)" in the Serra do Cachimbo. According to the newspaper Jornal do Brasil of Rio de Janeiro, "Many people told of having witnessed the incandescent object coming in over the region, producing 'a great bang'...The farmer (Divino Fogoio) said he had observed the object for six minutes before it crashed." "The vaqueiro (cowboy) Gilberto Braga, who lives in Nova Brasilandia, was the only one who had the courage to touch the object. 'It seems an iron ball, bigger than a tractor, that released an odd smell,' he said." "Residents of the region are concerned about a possible contamination of the herds or of the population who lives at the riverside by the UFO. The crash site lies along the banks of the Rio Manso." "'It was a disc-shaped object, with an intense light,' said Claudio Picci, Nova Brasilandia's municipal Secretary of Industry and Commerce." On Tuesday, July 8, 1997, an investigative team from AMPUP, a paranormal study group based in Cuiaba, arrived in Nova Brasilandia. AMPUP vice president Marcy Monteiro Neto interviewed several witnesses. According to her report, the ranch's overseer "didn't stand very long close by (the UFO) due to the intense smell. He also said the object is black, whether it's metal or concrete is not known, and it is the size of a truck." A crew from Gazeta TV attempted to enter the Fogoio ranch on July 9 and was turned away by Brazil's Policia Militar. An aircraft hired by Globo TV, Brazil's largest network, overflew the property later in the day. (See the newspapers Correio Braziliense of Brasilia, D.F. for July 9, 1997 and Jornal do Brasil of Rio de Janeiro for July 9, 1997. Muito obrigado a Paulo Andrade por eso caso.) BLUE UFO SEEN OVER ILLINOIS AND MISSOURI ON THE FOURTH OF JULY Hundreds of eyewitnesses living in suburban Illinois and Missouri communities around the city of St. Louis reported sighting a "bright blue UFO" the night of Friday, July 4, 1997. The sightings took place between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eyewitness Jonathan J. of East Carondelet, Illinois reported, "While we were shooting fireworks, we looked up and saw a blue light traveling very quickly (from) East to West. It was very high, but at the same time, it appeared to be right on top of us. I asked who it was who had shot that, and nobody had launched anything." "Besides, it had way too much altitude, and was coming from an impossible direction to have been launched by us...I walked out onto the driveway, looking West, and realized that no neighbors were out. And even if they were, they'd be way too far away to have fired a rocket that high...No noise was noted. Almost my entire family saw it." (Email Interview) ARIZONA JOLTED BY A NEW THREE-DAY UFO FLAP UFOs paid a return visit to Arizona on Friday, July 11, 1997, triggering a three-day flap in metro Phoenix, Glendale and Tucson. During the evening of July 11, 1997, Erin L., age 19, and a friend were at Vista Point, near Lake Pleasant Harbor and Glendale (population 96,988), "relaxing and looking for meteors while sitting on top of our car. A huge triangular object with several very dim reddish-orange lights passed directly over our heads, making absolutely no noise and no vibrations. We were very scared. It was going at a steady speed, but not very fast, maybe 25 to 30 miles per hour. Anyhow, it was much too low and not well lit enough for any airplane at that height. But then, the strangest thing was how it sort of jolted, then shot off and disappeared." On Saturday, July 12, 1997, at 8:30 a.m., a teenaged boy in Tucson saw a UFO in the sky while he was standing at the corner of Ana Road and First Street. He described it as "a round shape, with lights--orange, yellow, white--moving very, very fast." (Email Interview) Skywatch member Jeff Ferris took his new videocamera to a friend's house in Scottsdale, after the friend reported "that the UFOs were flying over his neighborhood. Ferris shot footage on both Friday and Saturday, July 11 and July 12. Channel 10 News showed up to investigate and captured two of the UFOs on videotape. According to Phoenix ufologist and videographer Tom King, "There were multiple objects in the sky. Some were explained as grocery bags; others are simply unexplainable at this time. The white and yellow objects were at very high altitude, and some were at twice the altitude (70,000 feet or 21,212 meters--J.T.) of local commercial aircraft." Another Skywatch member, Casey Smith, had a scanner operating "and we heard Sky Harbor Airport report that they had an object at 4,000 feet that hadn't been identified. It was heard by several people, including the media who reported on it." According to ufologist Bill Hamilton of Skywatch International, on Sunday, July 13, 1997, the entire Arizona Skywatch team had a meeting at Village Labs and reviewed "daylight video of objects over Thomas Road in Phoenix. They took a local Channel 10 crew out to the site that afternoon, and the news crew taped an object with their Betacam that appeared as a round white object at high altitude." On Monday, July 14, 1997, local residents were surprised by what they called "a stakeout" staffed by Men In Black (MIBs). The incident took place just off Interstate (Highway) 10, at a portion of Sky Harbor Airport near 40th Street. Witnesses reported that the MIBs were "unloading from a Boeing 747. They were putting equipment and boxes on a bus similar to a Greyhound. The bus was white with a red stripe running lengthwise around the vehicle." (Many thanks to Bill Hamilton, Tom King and others for these reports.) V-SHAPED UFO APPEARS OVER LAGRANGE, GEORGIA Last weekend, at the same time white UFOs were flying over Arizona, radio station WGST in Georgia reported "a UFO being seen for the last few nights" over LaGrange (population 24,204), located on Highway 29 near the Alabama state line, approximately 64 miles (102 kilometers) southwest of Atlanta. Morning deejay Ian Ponnet reportedly interviewed the captain of the LaGrange P.D. about the incidents. The UFO was seen to hover "for an extended period of time." On the night of Sunday, July 13, 1997, the object "appeared to hover at an altitude of approximately 10,000 feet (3,030 meters). It was substantial in size and had the same characteristics (V-shape plus lights) of the UFOs recently sighted in Phoenix. It was reportedly seen by thousands of people." On June 24, pilot Jerry T. encountered unusual phenomena while flying over LaGrange. He reported, "While flying VFR (Visual Flight Rules--J.T.) at 5,000 feet in clear air under a perfectly smooth heavy overcast layer at 8,000 feet, I saw what appeared to be five holes in the clouds approximately five miles east of LaGrange. The holes were perfectly round and approximately 300 yards (900 feet or 270 meters) in size. Below each cloud was a residue of cloud that was very thin and transparent. It appeared to me that something punched downward, creating the hole and pushing some of the cloud vapor with it." Jerry ruled out air turbulence, pointing out that "turbulence, depending on altitude, would cause the clouds to mix, erasing the hole. These opening remained intact for more than half an hour." (Email Interview) FIREBALL ASTONISHES CALIFORNIA MOTORISTS On June 29, 1997, several motorists were driving south on Interstate Highway 5, south of Los Banos, California (population 10,341) at 11:30 p.m. Suddenly, "we saw what we thought was a (Boeing) 747 coming in at a high rate of speed straight for the ground," Mr. W. reported. "We slowed down, as did the other cars on the road, and waited to see the fireball. What actually happened was, the craft headed toward the ground...and incredibly...pulled straight back up!" "We were amazed and continued to watch...we were all freaking out and couldn't believe what we'd seen. We continued to watch, and the craft started to veer towards the highway. We were all terrified, still thinking it was some sort of weird jetliner that was going to crash." When it came toward them, the trio "could see that this thing was MASSIVE, and it had three huge white lights that were almost blinding to look at. We all kept saying it wasn't an airplane because it didn't have a tail, and it didn't have any red flashing lights...We thought sure that thing was going to fly right over us, but instead it turned up (banked--J.T.) so that the huge white lights were vertical, did a 180-degree turn, and zipped off at an incredible rate of speed." Los Banos is in Merced County, 112 miles (179 kilometers) southeast of San Francisco. (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this news story.) UFO DAZZLES OBSERVERS IN EASTERN FRANCE On Monday, July 14, 1997, at 1:07 a.m., five members of Groupement des Ufologues Independents de l'Est (GUIDE) spotted a UFO while on a skywatch at Chateau-Salins in eastern France. Chateau-Salins is a small town 30 kilometers (18 miles) east of Nancy, in the department of Moselle. The UFO first appeared looking like "a satellite" in a "a slightly covered (overcast) sky but without storm." After flying in a straight line, the "sphere of light" began to approach the five GUIDE members. The object hovered "above a group of trees around 50 meters (165 feet) from the observers. "The sphere of light, the size of a fist at the end of a man's arm, disappeared in a sheaf of light that illuminated all of the area, blinding the witnesses for several minutes." A subsequent search by GUIDE found that "no plane, either civilian or military, had been in the area at the time of the observation." (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer of GUIDE pour ces nouvelles.) GLOWING UFOs HAUNT RADIO TOWERS IN AUSTRALIA Between Sunday, July 13, and Thursday, July 17, 1997, numerous residents of Gippsland in Victoria (Vic.) state, Australia reported "brimstone and orange" fireballs hovering near the Omega antenna array in the Bairnsdale and Lakes Entrance districts. On Thursday and Friday nights, July 17 and 18, people in Shepparton, Vic. "reported sighting up to five brimstone/orange lights holding position over Radio Australia's transmitter site at Congupna, and then flew off to the east." On Friday, July 18, 1997, at 11:25 p.m., local Ambulance personnel reported seeing "bright red/ orange lights above the Radio Australia tower" at Congupna. Radio Australia staff said that they "didn't think the lights were associated with their 600 kilowatt transmitter." (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour UFO Hotline for letting us quote from his reports.) CROP CIRCLES POP UP AT THREE SITES IN THE USA On Wednesday, July 9, 1997, farmer Paul Bryan made an astonishing discovery on his 15-acre oat field in Lawrence Township, New Jersey. Three crop circles had appeared. According to the UPI report, "One large circle about 100 yards (97 meters) long, appears in the center of...the field. To the sides of the circle, two straight lines point to smaller circles." On Sunday, July 6, at 6:30 a.m., farmer Gary Hansen discovered crop circles in his barely field on Highway 91 just outside of Smithfield, Utah (population 4,993). Hansen's 750-acre field contained barley 2 and 1/2 feet (0.7 meters) high. Smithfield is in Cache County 86 miles (137 kilometers) north of Salt Lake City. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, "Hansen's daughter, Maegan, 15, said drivers have been pulling off the highway since Monday afternoon (July 7). She said people are taking pictures of the circles or standing at the center of the larger one, presumably for cosmic enlightenment. 'We've had to put up No Trespassing signs,' said Maegan." "She said there are two unusual things about the circles. First, when a visitor to the site opened his compass, the needle started to spin wildly. Second the rocks within the circles have not been disturbed as one would expect if something were dragged over them, such as a board or rope." "Maegan's brother, Dustin, said the stalks in the circle were laid down perfectly. 'It's amazing the way it's made,' he said, 'Every grain piece is laid in a perfect spot. No kernels broken. If you step on it, the kernels are (normally) crushed." "Gary Hansen is also mystified, saying that he has never seen anything like it." "He refused to guess at the cause of the circles, but called them a 'mess' that has cost him about $500 in trampled grain." "'My friends think it's all pretty weird,' said Maegan, 'They call me the Alien Girl.'" Last year, on August 23, 1996, a crop circle appeared on Seth Adler's farm in Providence, Utah, 15 miles (25 kilometers) south of Smithfield. (See the Salt Lake Tribune for July 10, 1997) On Friday, July 11, 1997, Nick Bartlett and B.J. Kruse, both 15, discovered crop circles in a wheat field south of Waverly, Nebraska (population 1,726). Waverly is 38 miles (61 kilometers) southwest of Omaha and 13 miles (20 kilometers) northeast of Lincoln, the state capital. Bartlett and Kruse "said there were no tracks leading to the crop circle when they went out Friday morning to investigate. Bartlett first noticed a depression in the wheat field on July 6 and told Kruse about it. But both were out of town for a few days so they didn't look into it immediately." "Bartlett said, "I couldn't believe how perfect the circles were.'" "The teenagers described the configuration as a big F or a big key. The largest circle is about 40 feet (13 meters) in diameter and the smaller one is about half that size. The crop circle is just off a dead end street." On July 22, 1996, Kelly Reiser discovered a crop circle just southwest of Butte, Nebraska in Boyd County. Butte (population 529) is 180 miles (288 kilometers) northwest of Waverly. (See the Lincoln, Nebraska Journal-Star for July 12, 1997) CROP CIRCLE APPEARS IN THE NETHERLANDS On Tuesday, July 8, 1997, residents of Hooghalen, a town near Drenthe in the Netherlands found 15 crop circles in a rye field. The formation was investigated by Hilda Musch, 31, a ufologist with UFO-AID of Sappemeer. The crop circles measured 7 to 8 meters (21 to 25 feet) in diameter. Ms. Musch also discovered "in one of the circles...a mysterious white powder on the plants." The powder is being tested at a Dutch laboratory on behalf of the Centre for Crop Circle Studies in Drenten. Ms. Musch said, "We're talking about a very unique formation. This compares well with the big complexes that have been found in England. This could be a hoax, but the rye is unwalked upon. It's for certain that these circles were made by an intelligent life form." (See the Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad for July 11, 1997) MONSTER REPORTEDLY SHOT IN LAKE MANITOBA On July 12, 1997, the Toronto Globe and Mail reported, "People in communities around Lake Manitoba (in Canada's Manitoba province, north of Winnipeg--J.T.) are buzzing about a 15-metre (50 feet) snake-like creature, with a head like a horse, that was supposedly shot and spirited away under cover of darkness recently." Manipogo, as the monster in Lake Manitoba is called, is commonly sighted during the summer months. He made several appearances between 1960 and 1967, mostly at Toutes Aides, Man. in the northwest corner of the lake. The shooting incident was first reported on Thursday, July 10, at the Sandy Bay Indian Reserve, north of the city of Portage La Prairie (population 12,535). Manitoba ufologist Chris Rutkowski and two Fortean researchers from Brandon, Man. investigated the case. According to Rutkowski, he received a phone call, informing him that "someone named R. on the Sandy Bay Reserve had shot and killed 'a giant snake' near Lake Manitoba. He said that many others had seen this creature, and that its body was now being preserved and awaiting examination by the authorities." "I called my associates, Brian and Dave, in Brandon, somewhat closer to Sandy Bay. They are avid Fortean investigators, and I rely on them to investigate cases in Western Manitoba." "In the morning, I called the Sandy Bay RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police--J.T.) and spoke with another officer who said she knew about the story but that the duty sergeant was out at the time. It seems that a tremendous thunderstorm was hitting the area and was keeping the police busy with other problems." From his calls, Rutkowski learned that a man named Roulette "had been swathing hay on his lakeshore property near a swamp when he saw a large snake-like creature near the shore. He quickly dashed to his truck for his rifle and shot the creature as it was rearing out of the water." "Roulette then dragged the monster's body out of the water and ran to notify others of his find. According to A., 'half the town' came out to view the creature, and some took photographs of it. But the story gets better." "As the tale goes, RCMP were called and came out within a short time. They examined the carcass and called for a large flatbed truck transport. Villagers watched as the creature's body was loaded onto the trailer and covered with a tarpaulin." "As described by A., the creature was 50 feet in length, with the diameter of a barrel and 'a head like a horse.'" "B. said he and A. went out at 1:30 a.m. that morning to see if they could intercept the transport on its journey southward...They said they saw a Westway trailer leave the reserve and go south along the main access road about that time." Rutkowski tracked down another witness he calls K., who told a radio station reporter "he had seen the creature's body and that someone had indeed taken photos." But K. had also "acted weird" and didn't want to be interviewed. Rutkowski also heard a radio interview with "Sgt. W." of the Sandy Bay RCMP detachment, who reportedly said his men "could not find any sign of a carcass on the lakeshore. He said that he had been unable to locate anyone who had seen the beast and that he compared the story to that of a 'six-foot bird' (an escaped emu--J.T.) which had been reported six weeks ago in the area." Meanwhile, Brian and Dave visited the Sandy Bay reserve and spoke to several RCMP officers and village residents. Rutkowski said, "They had come to a conclusion. There had been no monster. What had happened, in their view, was that there had been a major drinking party along the lakeshore last night, and people got a little drunk. It seems that there had been some stories circulating during the past few weeks that someone had in fact seen Manipogo, but wasn't talking." Sgt. Clayton Watts of the Sandy Bay RCMP told the Canadian Press: "Everybody you talk to has a different story." But Rutkowski said that "a few things are still left hanging. Why did the RCMP (first) tell Dave and Brian that the case was legit? And what about the story that someone really did see a lake monster earlier this month?" (See the Toronto Globe and Mail for July 12, 1997. For the full text of Chris Rutkowski's report on the Manipogo incident, see Swamp Gas Journal #8, Special Report #6, July 1997.) (Editor's Note: This isn't the first paranormal incident at the Sandy Bay Indian Reserve. In August 1982, Don Cunningham, a constable for the Lakota-Anishinabe Tribal Council, his wife and his children spotted a reddish-brown Bigfoot with some white fur on its head. The creature left behind tracks measuring 16 inches wide that 'looked like a human hand.) from the UFO Files... 1909: AIRSHIP BUZZES A BEACH IN NEW ZEALAND Eighty-eight years ago, New Zealand was repeatedly visited by UFOs, then known as "airships." Thanks to New Zealand ufologist and longtime ROUNDUP reader Murray Bott, we are able to present actual newspaper stories from this little-known flap. On Saturday night (July 24, 1909), some half dozen boys were playing on the beach at Kaka Point near Mr. Bates (residence) and saw a huge illuminated object moving about in the air. It appeared as if it was going to alight at Kaka Point. The light from it was distinctly reflected on the roof of Mr. Fitzgerald's cottage. They boys thought it was being attracted by their lantern and left it on the beach. The airship then glided around the rocks at the old pilot station and nearly came in contact with them. It shortly afterwards disappeared. The boys said it was as big as a house. On Sunday night (July 25, 1909) the mysterious object again made its appearance at the beach and was seen by Mr. George Smith and Mr. Poulter about 8:30. Mr. Smith viewed it through a very powerful night glass. It was apparently over Mr. Aitkenhead's house when he first saw it, but it glided high in the air and sailed north in the direction of Kaitangata, swooping west and east and finally disappearing over the horizon. About 10:30 Mr. Smith was called out by Mr. Poulter to see the airship which again had made its appearance. This time it headed out to sea and eventually disappeared. As seen through the glass, Mr. Smith said it appeared to be a fair size, dark superstructure with a powerful headlight and two smaller ones (lights) at the side. (See the Clutha Leader of Balclutha, South Island, New Zealand for July 27, 1909.) Fun UFO Websites: For a look at photos of the red-orange UFOs seen at Congupna in Australia, check out Ross Dowe's site at http://www.netlink.net.au/rossdowe/index.htm Don't miss Minnesota MUFON's site. Joel Henry keeps it up to date with news and features. They're at http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html Not to be missed is our parent site, UFOINFO. Check in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ And for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check us out at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ For our readers in Russia, enjoy International Chess Day today. We'll be back next week with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites and in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and include the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 10:02:33 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:09:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:29:32 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >So come on Bob, bring your ball back, we need it to play! You and Vince >make nice so we can all enjoy the dialog. Vince, tune down the "sphincter >factor" when you address Bob or request information from him. Bob, would >you _please_ (for all of us) answer Vinces interesting and _quite valid_ >question? Hi John, Bob Shell can't answer that question without admitting he's been either a shameless PR flack for Ray Santilli or an utterly crass commercial opportunist (books, lectures) by staking his reputation as a photo expert to his certification that the AA "film" was authentic -- without ever personally examining a single relevant frame. Don't expect any answers from Mr. Shutterbug. I've been trying to flush-out a response for well over a year now to no avail. I predict that Bob will simply "take his ball" and go play somewhere else -- among audiences far less-informed and much more credulous about the facts of the AA scam. Shameless... Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 UFO NET ECHO CHANGES From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:21:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:22:09 -0400 Subject: UFO NET ECHO CHANGES Area: UFONet Information Releases Msg: #2350 Date: 20-Jul-97 13:22:43 From: Doug Roberts To: All Subj: UFO NET ECHO CHANGES ___ ___/ /__________ _____ ___ ----/ / / ___/ ) )___--/ /_----------------------------------- | / / / ___/ / / / / _ \/ __/ The ONLY UK Network dedicated | | / / / / / / / / / ___/ /__ to the subject of UFOlogy. | -(_____/ /--(_____/__/__/\___/(_____/------------------------------------ /__/ ufonet@littlegreenmen.demon.co.uk * [ The following message contains important information for both ] * [ users and sysops who use the UFONET echos. ] Due to the decrease in traffic a number of UFONET echos will discontinued as from the 1st August. Many of the DELETED echos have not carried any new messages for sometime so the impact of this change will be minimal. TAGNAME STATUS DESCRIPTION --------- --------- ------------------------------------------- U_ADMIN No Change Sysop only administration echo. U_DISCUSS No Change General (pref. UFO related) discussion echo. U_ABDUCT No Change Abuctions, CE3K etc. U_INFO No Change Information only. News clippings etc. Sighting reports, newsletters etc. U_CRASH No Change Crashed discs, government coverups, Area 51, Conspiracy etc. U_SCIENCE No Change Science/Technology Echo U_BUFORA DELETED BUFORA Conference U_CROPS DELETED Crop Circles U_CLSENC DELETED General Paranormal U_GOVT DELETED Military/Aviation U_INVEST DELETED Research/Investigations U_LINK DELETED US <-> UK UFO Gateway U_UKS DELETED UK UFO Sightings U_UKI DELETED International UFO Sightings Please let your sysop know in good time so they can modify their message bases as appropriate. I'm sure you'll all agree with me that a reduced number of echos with reasonable levels of traffic is a lot better than lots of echos with none. Updated echo guidelines will be posted in each of the remaining echos soon. If you have any queries, comments or suggestions about this reorganisation or anything else please let me know at any of the addresses below. Doug Roberts UFONet Moderator ------------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNet: 2:440/217.1 UFONet/BBSNet: 405:145/1.0 email: ufonet@littlegreenmen.demon.co.uk --- Spot 1.3a #1176 * Origin: Little Green Men, 15000 Files, 100% Free, 01342 844517 (405:145/1.1) ________ /___ ___\ \\__\/__// \ .. / \ / Ian Read - i.read@netcom.co.uk \ / \/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 UFO crash in Mato Grosso, Brazil - Update From: paulo h andrade <pha0801@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:11:58 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:24:37 -0400 Subject: UFO crash in Mato Grosso, Brazil - Update Hi List. Errol, I'd like to add only a remark about the terminology used : I've been using the terms "UFO" and "UFO crash" regarding this event because it is not known yet what it is. Of course what crashed there may be anything else different from an alien ship or an alien device. Although usually several people refer to an alien ship as a "UFO", I'm using the term with its original and exact meaning : Unidentified Flying Object, which means only something we don't know yet and that could be almost anything (even a weather balloon). Besides, it's the term used in the original report. I present below an update of the reports. You'll see that there are some details that might encourage one to investigate the case, and also other details that might disencourage one. Some parts are a little confusing. It is also noteworthy that the brazilian national media didn't broadcast yet any report on the subject. So far, it is only the local media that is reporting the happenings - and it seems that the local reporters are still now performing literally a hunt over the apparently inaccessible object. ================================================== UFO CRASH AT NOVA BRASILANDIA, MATO GROSSO, BRAZIL, ON JULY 1st, 1997 - UPDATE The mail below was sent by Ataide Neto, President of AMPUP, to Pedro Cunha (pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br), brazilian ufologist who lives in Brasilia. Pedro Cunha forwarded it to the Internet on July 15 th, 1997. -------------------------------- " AMPUP - State of Mato Grosso Association for Ufological and Parapsychological Research - The reported fact is real, it's only a matter of time, because the fact happened. However, it can't be affirmed what it is about. The conclusion of such happenings will lie between the distrust of some and the certainty of others. According to information from the population of the Nova Brasilandia county, the comments are evident. The object that crashed at Nova Brasilandia is attracting several people to the region, and the county is suddenly gaining national fame, thanks to a product that has nothing to do with the land. Nova Brasilandia is located 260 km away from Cuiaba' and is about 200 km from Chapada dos Guimaraes, a region full of sierras and by coincidence close to the surroundings of Serra do Roncador, which is the place that receives anually hundreds of tourists searching for UFOs and that is home of a legendary cavern that links subterraneously Brazil to Machu-Picchu [the famous archeological site and mystical city in Peru]. There is not sureness about the veracity of this information [legendary cavern], however the clues collected induce one to presume the facts are undeniable. People got knowledge and many witnessed the event of July 1st, 1997. The residents of Nova Brasilandia affirm the unidentified flying object (UFO) has passed ripping the skies over that county. According to the locals, the object was an enormous ball of fire that illuminated the region, leading them to suspect that the UFO has crashed in some point within the rural area of the county. The crash - according to the population - would has happened around 8:00 PM of a weekend, and the story told about the happenings doesn't contradicts it, that is to say : a huge ball of fire that passed over the houses and went towards the sierras; after two to four seconds, it is heard an earsplitting din (like if it was something exploding), that could be heard in a radius of 160 km; and due to the impact the land shaked, and soon after that a gleam appeared and it lasted for about one minute - according to them - and this gleam turned the sky into day. Even people accommodated in their homes, had to go outdoors to see the reason of this strange gleam. The AMPUP team has been at the place for investigations and researches, and with the results obtained we conclude that the object IS about 100 to 200 kilometres from the city of Nova Brasilandia, next to Serra Azul [Blue Sierra], at that outskirts. We didn't find it yet, because the place is of difficult access. However, we've fighted and are fighting untiringly, day and night, to reach the object. The AMPUP team has been at Nova Brasilandia in the night of July 7 to July 8th, and only returned because of a multiplicity of problems : the gas was finishing, the food was ending, the road wasn't in good condition, some people started to feel bad... Thus, on July 8th, the AMPUP team returned to Cuiaba', but my anxiety was so big that I (Ataide Ferreira S. Neto) came back again to Nova Brasilandia, and I have made several and mysterious findings. Before returning, I was receiving several phone calls to clear up what really would has happened, because the TV and the press wanted to interview me regarding what the AMPUP team would has obtained. After one of the interviews, the Gazeta TV Network group invited me to return to the site. It was July 9th, and so we went there again. Arriving at Nova Brasilandia, we had to look for Mr. Santinho, this because when he was fishing, he saw the object falling some kilometres far from where he was. When we arrived at his house, we didn't find him, so we decided to talk to the Nova Brasilandia's Mayor, Mr. Sergio Benetti, who informed us of a reliable person who would know the place where would has fallen the object. We would have then to walk about 80 kilometres to find him, a person called Manito. Before continuing, it must be said that the press - through many testimonies from people of Nova Brasilandia - believed that the UFO would have fallen at Mr. Divino Fogoio's ranch, about 70 km far from the county. The press has reached this conclusion because Mr. Fogoio spreaded the information, about 10 days ago, that he had sighted a weird object in his property. Nevertheless, his reputation in the city is that of a great liar, and the distrust on his story increased when he affirmed he would has seen the object falling at his ranch but wasn't able to say where. Soon before, he had affirmed he knew where the object was, however in front of the press he stated the opposite, so we've decided to check the Manito's story out, 'cause the Mayor affirmed he was a reliable person. When we reached Manito's farm, it was night already, he wasn't there, we kept waiting his arrival, and by 8,00 PM he came back, and his story was the following : "My brother-in-law, Heleno, knows where is the "stuff", he has approximated himself about 200 meters to that odd "stuff", he didn't get close to the object only because of its very strong stink. He says (the brother-in-law) that the stuff is the size of a van, the color is SILVERY, and that part of it is above the ground level and the other part is buried. He told me it had a ROUND shape." Manito gave us the address of the ranch where the object was crashed close to this farm. And it's interesting to affirm that this farm (named Campina Verde) is located at the back side of Mr. Divino Fogoio's ranch. However, it's not so easy, because of the extension of the farm, the farms there are not small, to be more precise they are immense and this makes the object searches difficult. We waited at the manager Manito's farm, and by 5,00 AM [July 10th, 1997] we went towards his brother-in-law Heleno, we reached our destiny by 7,00 AM. He told us the following : "I don't know where is this stuff, I didn't see anything, I don't know anything, I didn't hear anything". This information led me to a distrust because his affirmations weren't convincing, it seemed that he wanted to say something more, something he couldn't say before the camcorder of the Gazeta TV Network. After that, we had to start it over from the very beginning, we didn't know what to do, we knew that something crashed, because the people from the city saw the ball of fire, and the din was so big that there wouldn't be anyone in that region affirming that he/she didn't hear it, and the gleam was seen by almost everybody in the region, for about a minute. That being so, would it be possible that Heleno wouldn't has seen anything ? The cattlemen said the object crashed around that place, but where ? They affirmed that Heleno knew, but he denied this info to us. So we searched for others, for something, for somebody, we didn't know from where to start over until the moment we got knowledge that other reporters were closeby, to be precise at the Ferrao de Ouro farm, 40 kilometers away from the farm where we were. And it was through these reporters that the information were getting hotter. The farm Ferrao de Ouro is the only place that presents a landing lane for planes in the region, and these reporters who are from the paper "Correio de Mato Grosso" were in a plane, flying over the whole area, but nothing was found. However, at that site, one of the reporters has obtained the following information : some of the people from that region have witnessed and affirmed they have seen Mr. Divino Fogoio with a piece of a strange object, and that he would come to Cuiaba' with the purpose of selling it. At the farm "Ferrao de Ouro", the press personnel searched for the cowboy Gilberto Braga, 26 years-old, who works at the farm "Bela Vista", because he affirmed on July 08th to the paper "Gazeta" that he saw and touched the object. According to his statement, the object has the shape of a home basin and the size of a small house. According to him, he touched the object, and it exhaled a bad smell, and it was located inside Divino Fogoio's farm. I stayed at the farm Ferrao de Ouro while the Gazeta TV Network crew and the Correio de Mato Grosso team joined to each other and went towards Gilberto. After some hours, they returned and brought newness. Gilberto Braga that day (July 10th) before the press denied the happenings, in other words, previously he had affirmed he saw the object, now he denies, however in the filmed report he appeared almost crying wanting to say something more. When he finished the recording of his testimony before the camera, he turned back to Luiz Henrique (the Gazeta TV cameraman) and said : "from today to tomorrow, you'll know what happened". This phrase became disturbing to us. It seemed like there was something at the site, and he couldn't talk. Explaning another interesting point : according to information, Mr. Divino Fogoio is a smart and very dangerous individual in the region, everybody fears him. Mr. Fogoio and his son are violent, because they are killers. The information I got from the press, are that Fogoio would has been arrested for having kidnapped, during five days, the former Mayor of Nova Brasilandia, who has been threatened and tied all the time. However, Fogoio payed the bail and has been freed after two weeks. This makes me believe he is dangerous and therefore people hide something because they fear him. It could be possible that Fogoio would has threatened those folks not to say a word about it, and thus let him take financial advantage from that object. We have found ahead more people who saw Fogoio with a piece of the object, and [who said] that he would be going to Cuiaba', to sell it. WE HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE OBJECT IS THERE, at those surroundings, because everybody in the region confirms it. With the results obtained from the investigation, we reached the conclusion that Mr. Fogoio managed to find the object (whether within or without his farm), and that he wanted to take advantage of the situation. I've walked all over the region, and all that I got was the same thing : "I didn't see, but I hear someone saying that JohnDoe saw and touched" ; "Fogoio is with the stuff there at his farm" ; "I saw Fogoio with a piece of the object" ; "What JohnDoe told me is that the object is the size of a Volkswagen [Fusca model], the size of a van, of a small house, ..." . And so on, and we didn't find anybody who could take us to the site. On Monday, July 7th, the Gazeta team has been at Fogoio's farm, but I believe they committed a mistake : they attended the place together with the Fire Department and the Police, because being him a person with bad reputation it is possible that he became afraid of the Police, and that they would take what he had of value. The information, as mentioned above, made me believe that Fogoio wanted to take advantage of the situation, what harms us all. From the farm Ferrao de Ouro, I took a lift in the plane, and we flied over the region searching for the object, until around 5,00 PM, unsuccessfully. Then I was obliged to return home, because I was concerned, I hadn't informed my family where I was. I had been out for a long time, the eagerness was so high that led me to this. Therefore I returned at the nighfall of Thursday, July 10th. Yet, the Gazeta team stayed, and later on I was informed that the SBT [Sistema Brasileiro de Televisao, or Brazilian Television System] has also attended the region together with another TV crew, that is to say, the media were taking over the region, and by insistence they can soon or later find something. I have the expectancy that more information will come from the Gazeta and the Correio de Mato Grosso crews. The last information are the following : the reporter Calixto, from the paper Correio de Mato Grosso, who was with me at the place, went to the INPE - National Institute for Space Research [Note from T.: this is at Sao Jose' dos Campos, state of Sao Paulo] - to obtain a picture of that region through the brazilian satellite, and this way managing to locate the crash site. Each 6 hours the satellite tracks an area of 180 km [over the region]. Any other information I'll make contact immediately. Ataide F.S. Neto President of AMPUP. " ===================================================== END OF FILE Fascinating, ain't it ? I believe that in the worst hypothesis, it's a false alarm (e.g.something other than alien), but what if it's not ? Best Regards, *----------------------------------------------* | | | Paulo H. Andrade - pha0801@ibm.net | | http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4025/ | | "Varginha Case - The Whole Story" webmaster | | | *----------------------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:03:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:25:11 -0400 Subject: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:49 -0400 > Everyone.... > Recently I read Carl Jung's book on UFOs, a fascinating discussion of (SNIP) > Specifically, it shows the now-standard alien face, on top of what > appears to be a UFO. The UFO is shining beams of light directly down > on the skyline of a city below. I don't know when the painting was > painted, but the book was published in 1959, so the painting can't be > any later than that. I hardly need to say that the standard alien > face wasn't known back then. And I should add something else. This > isn't sort of the alien face, or approximately the alien face, or > something more or less like the alien face. It's the exact oval shape > with slanted huge black eyes we're all familiar with. Greg: You've got a wonderful imagination, but you may be reading more into the picture than what may be there. As described in the book, the "eyes" of the alien are actually nostrils. There is a very large face of an old man covering most of the sky, and includes eyes (white eyebrows). The face is quite obvious, and the "UFO" is actually the mouth, from which the light is spewing down towards the city. However, to the right of the nostrils, there does appear to be a face resembling that of an alien. Also, if you turn the picture upside-down, you will see a large face of an alien in the water. This alien, however, has small, beady, lizard-like eyes. John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 20 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:42:14 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:27:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - >>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:34:42 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Nightwatch Online Interview >> Discussion with John Velez >>Question: >>Have there been reliable accounts of experiences with aliens that never >>involve physical encounters - i.e. no experiments or UFO involved? In other >>words, mental only? Also, what do you think becomes of the hybrids when >>they reach maturity? We only hear about the fetus to childhood? >>John Velez: >>First, I've never heard of a "mental abduction" don't know what it is so I >>won't resond to that one. Secondly, we don't know what happens to the >>hybrids or even why they are being created. Lookout though, anyone who >>claims to have THE answers to (those questions) is probably going to try to >>sell you Amway products too! <G> I was interested to read the entire interview because it certainly answered a lot of questions I have had about abductions. I particularly found this question interesting because there has been such a case reported here in Australia. The details have been publicised by Keith Basterfield and appear in his book, UFOs: A Report on Australian Encounters. What makes the report even more interesting is that it took place while the abductee was with two investigators from the Victorian UFO Research Society. The abductee reported a number of encounters over a relatively short time and had arranged to meet the investigators at the site where most of the contacts had occurred. When the abductee arrived the investigators got into her car and one stated that "there seemed to be a 'presence' in the vehicle and their hair stood on end. Shortly after the abductee saw a man on the side of the road but neither investigator saw anything. Then the abductee went into what was described as a "trance-like state" and, while holding onto one of the investigator's hands, described the abduction as it took place. While it was taking place the investigators saw nothing and at no time did the abductee disappear from their sight. After the event the abductee could not remember anything that she had said. After the event all three went back to the abductee's home where a further abduction occurred and again the investigators saw nothing and at no time did the abductee disappear from their sight. However, on this occasion the abductee did not lapse into a trance and the abductee was simultaneously aware of being at home and being abducted. This second abduction lasted for only a brief time. On a slightly different tack, I am interested to hear if anyone knows of any "famous" people who may have been abducted. It puzzles me that while some abductees report medical-like tests, others report being given messages regarding the Earth's future or possible environmental cataclysms. Why are only ordinary people given these messages? It would make more sense (if anything to do with UFOs make sense) to impart these warnings to people with the power to make the necessary changes. Stuart Livesey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 3 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:39:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 3 This is a test message. It has not meaning. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: www.ufomind.com/org/practice/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 5 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:51:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 5 This is a test message. It has not meaning. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: www.ufomind.com/org/practice/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 6 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:53:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 6 This is a test message. It has no meaning. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: Practice Page for Comments and Links
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 7 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:04:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 7 This is a test message. It has no meaning. Not sent to list, archive only. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: Practice Page for Comments and Links
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:04:29 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:23:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:16:46 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative Roger wrote: >> However, his conclusions >> are truly unfounded, irrational and illogical. This leads >> me to believe he came to the Ufology "community" with a >> pre-planned goal, which is coined "Debunkery" Rebecca wrote: >You may BELIEVE whatever you like. >I happen to KNOW that what you BELIEVE is not true. >But I can't change your beliefs. Rebecca, how can you say this? How well do you know Kent? He could have you fooled, especially if he has been sent by the CIA. That is something he may not even divulge to his wife. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:54:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:25:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 7/20/97 8:27 PM: > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:42:14 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - > 07-19-97 > On a slightly different tack, I am interested to hear if anyone knows of > any "famous" people who may have been abducted. It puzzles me that while > some abductees report medical-like tests, others report being given > messages regarding the Earth's future or possible environmental cataclysms. > Why are only ordinary people given these messages? It would make more sense > (if anything to do with UFOs make sense) to impart these warnings to people > with the power to make the necessary changes. That assumes that a) The "warnings" are real and not confabulations. b) The actual purpose of the warnings is the same as their apparent purpose. Remember, in the 1950s, the contactee warnings were of nuclear holocaust, while now they are of environmental apocalypse. However, the warnings of a specific sort often seem to be given to those who are "prepared" to hear them. A case that (a) is false could be made. Certain researchers seem to work with contactees who receive certain warnings. Mack is interested in environmental causes, and his abductees provide environmental warnings. Strieber is interested in environmentalism, and his experiences seem to reinforce that. Vallee and Keel have made a case against (b). To paraphrase Keel, arriving at a belief about the phenomenon generates cases which support that belief. While I don't buy that at this point except as a statement of selection effect, it is still a possibility. On the other hand, this reflection of current societal or contactee fears could be a move by the source to ensure that "you will not speak wisely of this night" (Schirmer). Or it could be an attempt to build a mythos of upcoming environmental catastrophe to discourage humans from taking needed steps in the development of technologies which could eventually threaten the UFO source. And, let's face it, these warnings are not exactly warnings of some obscure threat we might miss if we were not warned by these beings. Like most prophecy, these warnings seem to be no more than what one could get from the contactee in the absence of the contact. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:31:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:33:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Let's not get carried away about Kent Jeffrey! > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell > Initiative > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net >Kent is obviously a bright, > intelligent, well-educated man. However, his conclusions > are truly unfounded, irrational and illogical. This leads > me to believe he came to the Ufology "community" with a > pre-planned goal, which is coined "Debunkery" <g> This -- and much like it -- is a reaction to Jeffrey's lengthy essay on why he doesn't believe the Roswell crash was alien. Or, rather, a reaction to part of it. Jeffrey indulged in some large-scale speculation, arguing, if I remember correctly, that aliens aren't likely to visit us and alien ships aren't likely to crash. These ideas, particularly the second one, were properly criticized here. To call them "unfounded, irrational, and illogical" might be stretching a point, but they certainly seem incorrect. However...let's not forget Jeffrey's main reasons for changing his mind. He talked to many pilots who were at the base, and none of them had heard of anything strange about the crash. And he talked to high-ranking staff at the Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and none of them say they'd heard anything about an alien crash. You can argue with Jeffrey about what these comments mean. But nobody has yet proved the pilots and the FTD staff didn't make them. And it's certainly not irrational for someone who'd found these potential witnesses, talked to them, and found the inquriry coming up negative to conclude the Roswell crash was ordinary. THIS is the part of Jeffrey's commentary we ought to be looking at, because it's the only part that bears directly on the factual evidence for or against the crash. And while it's possible to disagree with Jeffrey's conclusion, I don't see anything "unfounded, irrational, and illogical" in this crucial part of what he wrote. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:30:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:42:14 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez - 07-19-97 > >>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:34:42 -0500 > >>To: updates@globalserve.net > >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >>Subject: Nightwatch Online Interview Hello Stuart, > ...... > On a slightly different tack, I am interested to hear if anyone knows of > any "famous" people who may have been abducted. It puzzles me that while > some abductees report medical-like tests, others report being given > messages regarding the Earth's future or possible environmental cataclysms. > Why are only ordinary people given these messages? It would make more sense > (if anything to do with UFOs make sense) to impart these warnings to people > with the power to make the necessary changes. > Stuart Livesey The problem here is that if people in the limelight or with political or scientific responsibilities are abducted, they are not going to want to report it because they're smart enough to know they won't be believed by many, and would instead be ridiculed and be the butt of "little green men" jokes by other persons of responsibility or in power. So they can foresee that they'd lose their positions of influence. So they don't tell anyone of their abductions, or if they do tell someone, they swear him/her to silence. The key example others here will likely point to also is the very high official within the U.N. who was abducted. He's reported in Budd Hopkins' book _Witnessed_. There are quite a few ufologists who don't believe this, and don't wish the aliens to ever leave their spacecraft. So you can imagine how few people in positions of authority would want to believe this. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 UFOR: Chupacabras, Part 1 (Research Interviews by From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 00:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:40:15 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Chupacabras, Part 1 (Research Interviews by From: Lucy Pla <Lucy_Pla@compuserve.com> An interview with Ms. Madelyne Tolentino and her husband, Mr. Jos=E9 Miguel Agosto, conducted by Lucy Pl=E1 and Jos=E9 Manuel Rodr=EDguez of the Puerto= =20 Rican Research Group, on March 20th, 1996 in Can=F3vanas, P.R. This interview is divided in two file: chuin1.txt (part I) and=20 chuin2.txt (part 2). Part I of the interview: Lucy: Good morning. My name is Lucy Pl=E1 and my companion is Jos=E9 Manuel Rodr=EDguez. MT: Good morning. My name is Madelyne Tolentino Maldonado. Lucy: What's the name of this neighborhood? MT: Barrio Campo Rico in Can=F3vanas, P.R. Lucy: On what day did you see the Chupacabras? MT: Sometime around the second week of August 1995. Lucy: At what time? MT: Approximately 4:00 p.m. Lucy: Where was the creature? MT: Facing my mother's house. Note: Ms. Tolentino's mothers' house is in fact the first floor of=20 Madelyne's home. Lucy: What was it doing? MT: I was helping my mother, since she was getting ready to move into that location. That's when I noticed that a vehicle was about to=20 park right outside the house. I took a look to make sure it wouldn't block the access to the house. It was then that I noticed that the fellow driving the car was frightened -- his eyes opened wide and he started backing out. His attitude led me to believe someone was=20 going to hit him or mug him. It made me go up against the glass=20 window, which you can see, is quite wide and faces the front of the house. I then became aware of that creature walking on two legs,=20 apparently having come quite a distance, from the corner. It would=20 seem that when the creature became aware of the car it didn't want to get too close to it, and stood in front of the window through=20 which I was looking outward. Lucy: Was the creature aware that you were looking at it? MT: At first, no. Later, I noticed that I was indeed looking back at=20 me by its eye movements. Lucy: What change did you observe in its eyes? MT: It moved them constantly, side to side. It dawned on me that it=20 had no whites to its eyes. Lucy: What color were they? MT: Dark grey. Lucy: Did you notice anything else about them? MT: They were damp and protruding, running up to its temples, spread=20 to the sides. Lucy: How tall was the creature? MT: Some 4 feet, more or less. At the time it was walking like a human, on both legs. Its arms were drawn back into an attack position, as though it was a monster. Lucy: How many fingers did it have? MT: It had three long, skinny fingers. The arms were also very long. They were drawn back, but I had the impression that they were very long. Lucy: And its hair? MT: Rather short and close to its body, rather well-combed, in fact. I noticed that it had apparently been burned by something. It had some round things on its body and the region seemed ashen as if=20 something had burned it right there. The burn mark revealed=20 pinkish-purple skin, as if the top layer had fallen off. Jos=E9: As if it had been shot? MT: No, no, no, not a shot. It looked like it had burned itself with something, and among the ashes you could see this pinkish-purple skin. Jos=E9: People are saying someone fired a shot at it. MT: Yes, I know, but the gunshot incident was much later -- around=20 September. Lucy: What about the creature's legs? MT: Its legs were really long and skinny, and I could see three separate toes...like a goose's foot, that has a little thing=20 between the toes. Lucy: And its nose and mouth? MT: For a nose it had two little holes, and its mouth was a slash. It was closed. At no moment did it open its mouth, so I never saw fangs nor teeth. Lucy: What else did you notice about the creature? MT: I noticed something odd in its lower back. It looked like it had=20 feathers, something that didn't match the rest of its bodily=20 characteristics. That's when I told my self: "What the heck is that?", because it didn't match the rest of the body. Lucy: How were those "feathers"? MT: They were like feathers, but flat on its back. At no point did=20 they rise. Do you know what I'm saying? Lucy: Yes, I do. Where they joined by some sort of membrane? MT: Yes, and it looked reddish, like a mixture of copper with brown and other colors. Lucy: What else did you notice? MT: It was such a weird creature that I even got down on the floor to see if it had genitals. It had nothing at all -- it was "plain"=20 and sealed. I was laughing and saying to my mother: "What the heck=20 is this? Does it defecate through its mouth after it eats?" It made=20 robot-like movements, as if being controlled by someone. Lucy: And its arms were in an attack position all the time? MT: At no moment did it lower them. Lucy: What were its movements like? MT: Slow, as if guided by remote control. Like a robot. Lucy: In other words, neither human nor animal movements. MT: No. And when I noticed the look in the its eyes, I shouted "My God!" Lucy: You screamed? MT: Yes, because it shocked me. To tell you the truth, had that thing appeared in front of me I'd have broken into a run, but since I was=20 behind the glass, and there was a gate outside the glass, I said to myself: "That thing can't harm me in here." Meanwhile, when my=20 mother heard me scream, she decided to go out and get the creature=20 [...]. The thing took off running, I'm not sure if it was because=20 I screamed or not. Lucy: Then what happened? MT: I noticed that it was kind of hopping, like a kangaroo. But it wasn't a kangaroo! It plunged into the woods over there, where you=20 see that palm tree. Note: There is a street facing Madelyne's mother's house. There is an=20 empty lot on the other side of the street, with a palm tree, a=20 wire fence and a machine shop belonging to Madelyne's husband,=20 Miguel. MT: My mother ran after it. I went outdoors, but I stayed far away,=20 where the car was parked. Note: The car was parked outside her mother's house. MT: I was telling myself: "I'd better stay here, since I have no idea how that thing is going to react." My mother was where you see that concrete pad. There's a boy that works for my husband who's=20 always willing to deal with animals and keeps a pair of gloves in=20 his car. He put them on and went into the woods to catch the=20 creature. Lucy: Then what happened? MT: He says that when he tried to grab the creature it whipped out what I thought were feathers. He says that they stood straight up and that they were very long spines. Jos=E9: Like a rooster's comb? MT: Aha. He says that it stood straight up and didn't move, The spines changed colors. Lucy: What else happened? MT: He says that he pried its mouth open and saw that it had really=20 large fangs. Lucy: Fangs and teeth or what? MT: He told me that they were fangs and teeth. He kept on trying to grab it and the thing ran out of the woods. My mother was also=20 in there trying to catch it. There was a kid on a bicycle who went crazy when he saw the creature, throwing broken bottles at it. My=20 mother shouted to a neighbor: "Catch it! There it goes!" But when I looked, and I believe this today, that the creature has=20 supernatural intelligence. Lucy: What makes you say that? MT: Well, because when the creature heard what my mother shouted at=20 the neighbor, it started running much faster than it had. Its feet weren't touching the ground. It was as if it had been suspended in=20 the air, floating. Then it disappeared down that other street=20 facing the church. Lucy: Were there other witnesses? MT: That same evening, two drivers who run the church buses saw the creature. They say that it's eyes were lit in the darkness.=20 Apparently it can turn them "on" at night. I told my mother:=20 "Look, let's keep quiet about this and not say a word to anyone or they'll think we're either crazy or liars." Lucy: Where was your husband? MT: He'd gone out looking for parts. When he returned, I couldn't hold back anymore and I told him. Then he said: "My God, that's what I saw this morning!" He says that he had had an experience with the creature that very morning. Lucy: Have you had any further experiences with the creature? MT: I ran into it again on January 4th this year (1996). I was=20 returning from K-Mart on Route 185. I began smelling a powerful odor, like battery acid, inside my van. Lucy: When you first saw the creature, did it give off that smell? MT: Yes, but not so strong. It's a really strong smell, like Malathion,=20 poison. It suffocates you. I was trying to swallow and I couldn't feel my throat. I was driving along with my two year old and he started gagging in the van, wouldn't stop coughing. Lucy: Did you feel that your throat was burned, numb or what? MT: It felt numb. It's like taking a Chloraseptic tablet. Lucy: Did you feel any strange sensations in your eyes or skin? MT: No, just my throat. Jos=E9: Did you feel faint? MT: No, but I felt that if I stayed there smelling that reek, you=20 couldn't tell what would happen. Then I told myself: "That must=20 be the creature still roaming around here." Lucy: What time was it? MT: Around 7:00 p.m.. Beyond the Race Track, in front of Can=F3vanas'=20 Barrio Cambalache, right there, on the right, I saw the creature. It was standing in front of my van as if wanting to cross and enter Barrio Cambalache. I saw that its eyes were lit. They looked like=20 Christmas lights. Lucy: What color were they? MT: Like fire, orange. A really shocking sight. Jos=E9: How many times have you seen it? MT: Twice, and I'd sooner never see it again. Lucy: Please look at this Chupacabras drawing. Were its eyes like this? MT: Yes, yes. Something like that. Note: The drawing Lucy showed Madelyne is the one in CompuServe under=20 the title CHUPA_GIF. in the Latinamerica Forum Library. Lucy: What happened? MT: I hurried back home. I felt deathly ill because the odor had suffocated me. I arrived feeling very nervous and Miguel, my=20 husband, asked me: "What's wrong with you?" I told him: "Look, I=20 just saw that creature again." He asked: "Where, where did you see it?" Lucy: What did Miguel do? MT: He told me: "Well, I'm heading over there because I want to see it in the dark." He went to find my uncle and they both went off to the place. Lucy: Did they see it? MT: They reached the place where I'd seen it but didn't find it. They=20 looked and looked, and when they were about to give up and come=20 home, they decided to give it one last try. That's when they saw=20 the creature on its way back. Apparently, after I drove off, the=20 creature crossed into Barrio Cambalache and was now on its way back. Well, Miguel says that it was returning to the place where I'd first come across it. Are you following me? Lucy: Yes. MT: Miguel says that it wasn't walking -- he says it was floating in the air. Lucy: Did its fins move? MT: No, he says they weren't. He says it was defying the laws of=20 gravity. Lucy: At what speed was it levitating? MT: Not a normal one. It floated softly. Lucy: What speed more or less? MT: I can't tell you. You'd have to ask him. Lucy: So then the creature walks, jumps like a kangaroo and floats? MT: Yes, that's how it is. Lucy: [Looking at the sketch] Its fins start at the head, as shown here? MT: Look, in my opinion, it doesn't start from the head, because where I saw those feathers starts from its neck downward. Lucy: So the feathers run from its neck to its back? MT: Yes Lucy: What about its head? MT: It had less hair on it and its face was pinched, skinny and so=20 forth. Lucy: Was its body thin or fat? What was the skin under the fur like? Did it look like flesh or what? MT: It looked like rubber. It was thinner on top (chest area), but=20 below it looked chubby. It had hips. Lucy: More people have seen it in this area? MT: Yes, but they don't want to talk about it. They're asked many=20 times, but they say nothing to avoid publicity. Lucy: But have you been told that the descriptions are the same? MT: Well, that boy I was telling you about earlier told his grandmother that he'd seen a monster, and his grandmother chided him. His father asked him: "Tony, tell me the truth," and the boy explained what he'd seen. Lucy: How old is the boy? MT: Six or seven years old. There's a girl who also saw it, and she's really in shock. The crew of the Ocurri=F3 As=EDprogram came here and=20 the girl's father brought her over because they wanted to interview here. She was so nervous that she cried constantly. Later, some other people of the "Primer Impacto" show with Pedro Rosanales=20 (it's shown in the USA) came and the very same thing happened. The girl describes the same characteristics, agreeing in every detail. I was affected for two weeks after seeing the creature. Affected=20 to the degree that when I went to bed I would tell myself: "That=20 creature knows I saw it and its going to come back here to get me."=20 [Laughs]. That's what I thought, because to my mind, it was nothing of this world. Look, it was neither animal nor human, you know? I thought: "What if that thing has some powers and it appears inside the house even though its locked?" You see how it affected my mind? I thought it was going to come back for me or return. Jos=E9: I think the smell you're telling us about is what the creature uses to suffocate animals and have its way with them. MT: Yes, its like when you suck one of those Chloraseptic lozenges=20 and you feel so numb you can't even feel yourself breathing. That's=20 similar to what I felt. Lucy: Any other experiences? MT: At the very same location where I saw it for the second time, a young man had complained to the police about an experience he'd had.=20 He said that he'd been driving along and hit what he thought was a=20 child. He got out of the car and found no traces of anything, but the front of his car was badly damaged. Lucy: Any other? MT: Elieser Rivera had something similar happen to him on that road. Precisely where the creature was about to cross where I saw it. Lucy: That would appear to be one of the creature's daily routes. MT: Yes. In the Cambalache sector, Lomas del Viento is a really lonely place. Jos=E9: Elieser Rivera is the church pastor? MT: Yes, he's a pastor. He was coming from church when it crossed its path. He thought it was a plastic dummy. He even got out of his van=20 to take a closer look. When he approached, he says, the creature produced a long thing like a fishgig from its mouth, pulling it in and out very fast. And it had fangs. He says it was incredible. Lucy: Was he also aware of the smell? MT: Yes, he was. Lucy: Did he feel pain in his throat? MT: I haven't asked him about it. He said: "This has got nothing to do with me. I'm getting back in the van." He told me the thing didn't=20 even fly off...it seems as if something jerked it straight up into=20 the air. Lucy: Did it rise and vanish? MT: He claims that it vanished as if a magnet had drawn it upward,=20 without using wings. I would really like him to come forward with his story because his experience was trully terrifying, to tell you the truth. Lucy: Were there any noises, sounds, murmurs or whistles at the time of=20 the sightings? MT: He says it made a sound like: sssssssssss. Lucy: Where did the sound come from? MT: From around the creature. Lucy: Any other experiences? MT: There's a gentleman named Daniel P=E9rez who once ran for mayor of Can=F3vanas. He's a serious and well-educated man. It was around the=20 time of the primary elections, I'm not exactly sure when. He had=20 to go supervise the polling places when he heard that "ssssssssss"=20 sound and saw the creature drop out of the sky onto a rock. He let out a scream. He says he was shouting to his wife: "Brunilda, a Chupacabras!" Lucy: How did he know it was a Chupacabras? MT: Because he had already seen the sketches and knew what it looke=20 like. He says the creature stood on the rock for a while and then=20 suddenly leaped through two dense trees without damaging a single leaf. Jos=E9: Any dead animals around here? MT: Around September, more or less, there were some dead goats on a=20 nearby hillside. Miguel and my uncle went out to shoot some videos. Mr. Jorge Mart=EDn of "Evidencia Ovni" was there with the boy who had allegedly seen the creature. This boy is the brother-in-law=20 of the man on whose property they found the dead goats. Mr. Jorge=20 Mart=EDn told Miguel that he would stop by to show us a sketch of=20 the Chupacabras to see if it looked like what we had seen. But the sketch they brought me was the one in which they even add vulgar genitals to the crature. I told him: "It really wasn't like that, you know." I told the boy: "You're making it look like a=20 science-fiction character." Would you believe it even had a pointy tail like a devil?! I told the boy: "Sit down and get your mind straight because no one's going to believe that. You've got to=20 tell the truth about this." He said that the creature was a few=20 feet away from him and that it chased him and everything. He says=20 that the creature had made a nest of grass and that a tornado-like=20 thing had been left behind (??). It so happens that when the creature was here, it also left a round thing on the grass. Lucy: In other words, it squashed the grass into a circular shape? MT: Like it was making a nest. Jos=E9: As if turbines had done it. MT: Aha. Precisely. He left the same thing here. Lucy: Does it leave these marks in the place where it takes off or where it's pulled upward? MT: Aha. That's what it seems. Then Mart=EDn told me to draw it, but=20 since I can't draw, I would describe it and they would draw it. I was still very nervous at the time. Not anymore. I can discuss it normally now. We've been on shows like "Christina" in Miami. Jos=E9: Were you paid for that? MT: Yes, our expenses were paid. We also did a show with "Carmen=20 Jovet." We also recorded with "Primer Impacto", "Borderline=20 Paranormal", "Strange Universe" and "Unsolved Mysteries". Jos=E9: Did any of them pay you for the interview? MT: Yes, "Unsolved Mysteries" did, because they did it like a mini-series where we all had to re-enact what happened. The sketch you have there is the one Mart=EDn drew here. I signed it and everything. Jos=E9: I think Chemo appeared on Christina's show. Note: Jos=E9 "Chemo" Soto is the mayor of Can=F3vanas. MT: Yes, Chemo appeared. So did Mart=EDn and veterinarian Carlos Soto.=20 Carlos Soto was involved in the case with the Doberman Pinscher. Did you see that program? Lucy: Yes. MT: Well, Soto has had experiences with this thing and he's not covering it up. He's not like the other veterinarians, or the people from the Department of Agriculture, who claim that its all wild dogs or monkeys without knowing what it is because they haven't really seen it. Lucy: What do you think -- is there only one or are there many of them? MT: To my mind there's many of them. I don't know. Sometimes you think so many things. Because if there's life on Earth, and God made so=20 many things, we don't know if there might also be life elsewhere. We would be limiting God. If God made everything, right? he=20 created the universe and everything in it, we don't know if there's=20 life out there. We'd be imposing our limitations on him. Lucy: So you believe in the possibility that it is an extraterrestrial animal? MT: Exactly. Just like we have dogs and animals here on Earth, maybe=20 they might have their own and have left them here to reach out=20 to humans. I've thought about this too, you know. Lucy: Could it be a mutation? MT: It could also be. An experiment or who-knows what. Look, we rented a movie called "Species". It would be a good idea if you saw it.=20 The movie begins here in Puerto Rico at the Arecibo Observatory.=20 There's an experiment going on in the film. There's a girl in a=20 glass box as a result of the experiment. They put her inside to kill her because there was something evil within her. So when they're trying to kill her with poisonous gases, she breaks the box with supernatural strength. What came out from inside the girl? It made my hair stand on end. It was a creature that looked like the Chupacabras, with the spines on its back and all. It even sticks something out of its mouth. Why did they make that movie? Why did they make it, and why in Puerto Rico? It was really=20 impressive, you know. Lucy: What was? The resemblance to the Chupacabras? MT: Yes. I watched the movie and wondered: "My God! How can they make a movie like that when these things are happening in Puerto Rico?" Lucy: In other words, does it make you thing that there might have been an experiment in which a being escaped and is now at large? MT: Yes, but they manage to kill her in the movie. But before killing her, she kept on reproducing. I had the impression that there would be a sequel. Look, a journalist told me that El Yunque was allegedly closed down because of the damage caused by Hurricane Hugo. He told me that the truth was that some experiment had escaped, not monkeys or anything like it. They never found those=20 creatures. The journalist was turned back, but he knows a lot=20 about it because he's been researching this for a while. Lucy: Has Mayor Soto seen the Chupacabras? MT: No, he hasn't. But he has taken part in numerous searches. Lucy: What other mutilations have occurred? MT: It killed some goats on Lomas del Viento. Its owner was Lt. Jorge Rivera of the Carolina CIC (Center for Criminal Investigations). Lucy: What is the government doing with the mutilated animals? MT: I'll tell you. The Civil Defense did nothing with those goats. The Civil Defense director didn't want to take them to Dr. Soto in Vega Baja. Lucy: So what did they do to the goats? MT: Well, they had to bury them. Lucy: What do they find around the mutilated animal? MT: Slime. The creature leaves some sort of slime. It also left slime on some rabbits it killed here in this allotment. The newspaperman from EL VOCERO kept it and sent it to Linda Moulton, a lady from Pennsylvania who brought Miguel all the equipment, even a radio sation. She had the slime analyzed over there and says it's nothing from this world. Lucy: What color was the slime? MT: Greenish, sometimes pinkish. They say that they have no idea what=20 it belongs to but that its nothing from this world. Note: *****Interview continue on file chuint2.txt*********** Thank to Mr. Scott Carrales for the traduction work of=20 this interview. This interview is going to be in Mr. Scott Carrales book "Chupacabras and Other Mysteries" that is going to be=20 available to the public this August 1997. =09 This interview is for your own enjoyment not for commercial=20 purpose unless autorice by creator Lucy Pl=E1=20 <Lucy_Pla@compuserve.com> or the Puerto Rican Research Group.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Spanish Ufologists react to Olmos at MUFON From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 00:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:42:42 -0400 Subject: Spanish Ufologists react to Olmos at MUFON From: Javier Garcia Blanco <lacip@ctv.es> SPANISH UFOLOGIST REACTION Upon learning that debunker Ballester Olmos had been invited to the July 1997 MUFON Symposium, a group of responsible Spanish ufologists posted a revealing note in INTERNET expressing their displeasure. This is the English version of that text.=20 June 14, 1997 To de directive of MUFON:=20 Through the courtesy of Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo (Miami Ufo Center) and Willy Smith (UNICAT Project) we have learned that Mr. Vecente Juan Ballester Olmos will be present at the congress of your organization which will take place in July. This investigator will attend the event representing the Spanish ufology. The undersigned all of them field investigators of the UFO phenomenon, wish to inform the following facts to the international ufological community that will meet at the congress (1) The Spanish ufology is divided into two factions. This splitting is due mostly to the negativist position of this individual. His false skepticism becomes evident when Ballester presents himself to the international ufology as open minded, when in reality he has openly manifested his position against the existence of UFO phenomenon, explaining in the most harebrained fashion all the Spanish cases.=20 (2) In his public presentations, Ballester Olmos has always injected his scientific qualifications. However --and although we do not consider titles essential for a good investigator if he uses techniques from different specialties-- contrary to what he has stated in numerous occasions, Ballester is not a physicist, an industrial expert, or a computer specialist. To support our statement, we have a audio tape recording in which he admits in his own words that such is the case. The problem is that he writes proclaiming false credentials to defend his controversial hypotheses.=20 (3) Almost never Mr. Ballester Olmos has personally investigated (UFO) incidents. Mostly, he has devoted himself to deploy explanations based on the studies by other ufologists. some of them members of a complex network of "correspondents" that investigate for him. In many instances he has not only exploited and enslaved (sic) local investigators but the explanations he offered are not those proposed by the persons who really investigated the incidents. If this was not enough, in some occasions Ballester Olmos has bribed investigators so they would spy on others to obtain information (See appended letter).=20 (4) Ballester Olmos claims to have been the promoter of the declassification of the official UFO files in Spain, but according to the authorities this is totally false. In addition there is strong evidence pointing out to a collaboration between Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos and the Spanish Air Force during the disclosure process. Those who have investigated this issue, have characterized it as a government fraud (fraude de Estado), while Ballester considers is a democratic and transparent process.=20 We hereby simply ratify that Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos does not represents more than a minimal part of the Spanish ufology, but seems to have a certain influence with the media, and has the support of the authorities. When his openly negativist attitude is added to this, the activities of Ballester become extremely suspect.=20 Sincerely, Angel Briongos Martinez Bruno Carde=F1osa Chao Javier Garcia Blanco Vicente Moros lacip@ctv.es http://www.ctv.es/USERS/lacip=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:46:58 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:45:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 08:56:17 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Agai >>Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:33:33 +1000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy Once Again >[text deleted] >>Regarding the 'Santilli Alien autopsy film', have you examined actual >>film frames that include the alleged alien image? >Why is this question being raised, unless it is simply to make a point? >Of course, if that is the case, I would suggest that the point has been >made many times before and is relatively boring at this point. The question was asked in response to this from Bob Shell, "Similarly, on the AA film. I don't know what it is, but I know a number of things that it positively is not, and recently crafted fake is one of them." Bob says it is positively not a recently crafted fake. The implication is clear, that the 'film' has been "positively" dated as not 'recent'. This is why I asked the question. Perhaps I should rephrase it, stand by for a followup message. Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:12:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:50:51 -0400 Subject: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? JC: Can anyone solve the following mystery? Another month goes by and no reply from "Les Sceptiques du Quebec." (The total is now 5 months, but... who's counting?) The total silence is almost deafening.... But perhaps I missed a reply. Are they all on vacation? Have they disbanded? Has the lack of accurate knowledge displayed by one of the founders of their parent organization, in regards to the motivations and research of Drs. J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald, perhaps caused them to rethink their position concerning a possible ET presence connected with UFOs? And what of the challenge to ALL skeptics to refute the information in the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals? Where are they? ...or do they only pick on things they find easy to solve, ignoring certain legitimate "core" cases researched throughout the years? I refer to: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:47:20 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: UFO UpDate: A manual for sceptic militants! Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:14:08 +0100 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Subject: A manual for sceptic militants! Forwarded from a post in the newsgroup sci.sceptic : - forwarded message - Pierre-Normand Houle pnhoule@aei.ca Hi, I'm a member of Quebec's skeptics association (Les Sceptiques du Quebec) affiliated to the SCICOP. Our group is growing biger (350+ members) and our members are being seen and heard often at local TV and radio shows. More than 100 people usually come at our monthly evening gatherings. We are soon to celebrate our 10th aniversary. We would like to produce a manual (in French to start with) so that our people can get a training in the ABC of skepticism. This is specially important as more and more people speaks in the media in our name. In addition to some information about alternative medicines, the paranormal, UFO's, pseudo-sciences... and such topics as : -Science and the scientific method -Psychological aspects of paranormal beliefs -Epistemology... we would like to talk about how to *BE* a Skeptic (i.e. a militant of a Skeptics association) . So we'd like to gather information, suggestions, tips from experienced members from other associations on topics such as: -How to talk in the media and in public -What attitude to have while confrontig the believers -How to effectively promote critical thinking -What is the aim of skeptics associations... Any other idea on what a skeptic should know ? ....snip.... Pierre-Normand Houle <pnhoule@aei.ca> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: .....and my reply: -Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:47:26 -0500 From: Pierre-Normand Houle <pnhoule@aei.ca> Reply-To: pnhoule@aei.ca To: rjcohen@li.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: A manual for sceptic militants! UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:39 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A manual for sceptic militants! ...snip... > James Oberg, NASA, had written an essay titled (In Search of > Gordon Cooper's UFOs.1-3) which challenged Gordon Cooper's > statements regarding UFOs and derided various other UFO > researchers. The reply to it (Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7), can be > considered a manual and, most definitely, something every skeptic > should know. Since you asked, I'll be happy to post both his essay > and that reply. > If you miss any portions of this, it will be archived on the web > at: > http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates (J.C. Note 6/10/97: Exact location at ufomind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ or, better yet, all parts are hyper-linked at my personal website at: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen ) > Cordially looking forward to your future response regarding same. > Respectfully, > Jerry Cohen > E-mail: rjcohen@li.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - and Pierre-Normand's original reply: Dear Jerry Cohen, Thanks very much for mailing this most interesting essay. I look forward for the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals 1/7. Only parts 1 & 2 of <In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs> made their way to my mailbox but I found part 3 on www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates. Most of my colleagues read English quite well. I'm sure they too are going enjoy and benefit from this reading. Cincerely, Pierre-Normand Houle pnhoule@aei.ca "Les Sceptiques du Quebec inc." sceptiq@ibm.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: So, we assume they must have read at least the first Oberg essay. The question is "Have they read my reply?" Perhaps the language barrier is more difficult than we realize. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ....and my comments and challenge again issued last month: From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:06:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:17:23 -0400 Subject: Re: K. Bagchus/M. Hendriks/"Les Sceptiques du Quebec" ....snip.... When a researcher gives you information that can be checked, any reader can explore it. If sources are properly given, that person can discover its accuracy or lack of it and fully investigate the topic on his/her own. These are steps anyone must follow to determine the "truthfulness" of any subject and the information any researcher must supply to support his investigation. For those new to the list, this is what I attempted to do when I created the website http://www.li.net/~rjcohen I believe I have succeeded. So far, NO SKEPTIC has refuted the information in the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals. The "checkable" information there is fully footnoted & thoroughly researched. If the following quote excerpt from CNI News attributed to James Oberg is accurate, ** "I am a lifelong UFO buff, a founding fellow of CSICOP and longtime associate of Phil Klass, a colleague and friend of J. A. Hynek from Northwestern days, am fascinated with the folklore aspects of the UFO beliefs in our culture, and a specialist in spaceflight operations, both American and Russian... Mr. Oberg's essays and the rebuttals expose great ignorance on the part of "one of the founding fellows" of CSICOP regarding J. Allen Hynek, James McDonald and their research, and gives solid data gleaned from those "slandered researchers" regarding the validity of some UFOs as probable ET craft. Any thoughtful, analytical, researching person can draw his/her own conclusions concerning what I have said by simply exploring and digging into what is there. This researcher has also issued an open challenge to ALL skeptics to refute the information therein. Until they do so in a reasonable manner acceptable to most, this author firmly believes that Hynek's and McDonald's work is unequivocal and "the case for some UFOs, as most probably being non-terrestrial craft, was proven years ago." Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen P.S. Was hoping to hear from "Les Sceptiques du Quebec inc." You've had this in your possession for 4 months (J.C. 7/20/97 .. now 5), were interested at the time, but nothing from you yet. I mailed the "3rd Oberg essay" and my "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7" to you a second time immediately after receipt of the letter below. Hopefully, the interior linkages now provided within the essays themselves, found in the website above, will make it even easier to analyze. Since I've tried my best to have it wide open for analysis, it is earnestly hoped you would reciprocate in a likewise manner. This researcher had reasoned that in 7 essays, he probably made some mistakes somewhere, would therefore possibly have to adjust what he wrote, and that the esteemed members of your group would perhaps be able to help him find any major problems with it. Sincerely, J.C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC 7/21/97: Pierre-Normand, does your silence mean your group accepts the majority of the researched information in the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals? We don't have to do this all at once. We can take one essay at a time. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Crop Circle Connector #31 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:22:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:49:05 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #31 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #31 Members = 1662 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. July 18th 1997 ***************************************************** New formations Straford Upon Avon, Aylesbury, and Shrewsbury See Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** New formation in Hampshire Lanes End near the Punchbowl, Cheesefoot Head. ***************************************************** New Gaia formation at Bishop Waltham, Hampshire ***************************************************** Cley Hill report updated with some stunning aerial photographs showing the Hill Fort and the formation. See Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** Full report on the single circle at Newbridge Bath See Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** New survey on the Longstock formation by John Sayer ***************************************************** DUTCH CCCS Three new formations on their Homepage, with Newspaper photograph included ***************************************************** SC, Issue No: 66 OUT NOW! ***************************************************** Update on what's happening in Uncle Sam, with Jeffery Wilson. Find out on what the Ameican Circlemakers are producing over there. ***************************************************** Two new formations reported 15th July in Emmen, Holland. See International Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** Update on Andel in Holland by our very own Connector Dutch reporter Anneco. ***************************************************** New Formations Richmond, Near Logan, Ytah. USA, and Cache Valley See Inter Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** New Formations Waverly, near Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. ***************************************************** The latest Cerelogolist No 19 Summer 1997 is out ***************************************************** Crop circle reports are arriving everyday now and we are NOW updating the 1997 crop circles daily. So please return to see the latest reports on the 1997 page. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 NASA Statement on the Passing of Gene Shoemaker From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:55:40 -0400 Subject: NASA Statement on the Passing of Gene Shoemaker Douglas Isbell July 19, 1997 Headquarters, Washington, DC (Phone: 202/358-1753) RELEASE: 97-156 NASA STATEMENT ON THE PASSING OF GENE SHOEMAKER Planetary scientist Dr. Eugene ("Gene") Shoemaker, 69, was killed in a two-car accident near Alice Springs, Australia, on the afternoon of July 18. His wife Carolyn Shoemaker suffered broken bones, and reportedly is hospitalized in stable condition. A geologist by training, Shoemaker is best known for discovering, with his wife Carolyn and colleague David Levy, a comet near Jupiter. Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 was broken up by tidal forces from Jupiter, and its fragments collided with the planet in July 1994. Together, the Shoemakers were the leading discoverers of comets this century. "Gene was one of the most renowned planetary scientists in the world, and a valued member of the NASA family since the earliest days of lunar exploration," said NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin. "His work on the history of meteor impacts and the role that they play in the evolution of the Solar System is a fundamental milestone in the history of space science. "Gene was an extremely articulate man who could explain the wonders of the planets in simple language that anyone could understand and get excited about," Goldin added. "Although he never realized his dream of doing field geology on the surface of the Moon, all future exploration of that rocky world owes a debt to his pioneering spirit. Our warmest thoughts are with his dear wife Carolyn as she recovers from her injuries." Shoemaker's signature work was his research on the nature and origin of the Barringer Meteor Crater near Winslow, AZ, which helped provide a foundation for cratering research on the Moon and planets. This work led to the establishment of a lunar chronology, allowing the dating of geological features of its surface. Shoemaker took part in the Ranger lunar robotic missions, was principal investigator for the television experiment on the Surveyor lunar landers (1963-1968), and led the geology field investigations team for the first Apollo lunar landings (1965- 1970). In 1961, he organized the Branch of Astrogeology of the U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, AZ, and acted as its director from 1961 to 1966. On his retirement from the U.S.G.S. in 1993, Shoemaker became a staff member at Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff. An early supporter of the idea that an asteroid or comet impact had doomed much of Earth's life (including the dinosaurs) 65 million years ago, Shoemaker chaired key NASA working groups on how best to survey such near-Earth objects in 1981 and 1994. Most recently, he was active in the Clementine mission that imaged the Moon, and was science team leader on the planned Clementine 2 mission. Shoemaker won numerous awards during his career, and in 1980 became a member of the National Academy of Sciences. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:30:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:07:26 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book Nostrils or eyes? >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:03:21 -0700 >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Greg: > You've got a wonderful imagination, but you may be reading more into > the > picture than what may be there. As described in the book, the > "eyes" of the alien are actually nostrils. There is a very large face > of an old man covering most of the sky, and includes eyes (white > eyebrows). > The face is quite obvious, and the "UFO" is actually the mouth, from > which the light is spewing down towards the city. > However, to the right of the nostrils, there does appear to be a face > resembling that of an alien. Also, if you turn the picture upside- > down, you will see a large face of an alien in the water. This alien, > however, has small, beady, lizard-like eyes. > John Koopmans This is a wonderfully stylized painting, and the apparent alien face, with attendant UFO and beams of light, is folded into a larger, human face, in which, just as John says, the eyes funtion as nostrils. The UFO indeed functions as the mouth. However, if you look at the nostrils by themselves, you see them enclosed in an oval shape, a perfect alien head. I don't mind John putting on the brakes here, though, because another caution occurred to me. Maybe the oval around the nostrils/eyes isn't as apparent in my scan as it is in the plate in Jung's book....BUT maybe the plate doesn't reveal fully what's in the original. In fact, it surely doesn't, since it's in black and white, and I'd assume the painting is in color. So we'd have to see the original to really know what to make of what I think is an alien face. Jung's view of the painting might be helpful here. He sees the what I call a beam of light as a waterfall, and it might be, if we saw the painting in color. But what he mostly calls attention to are the main disc-like shapes, some of them eyes, two of them the nostrils that I see as alien eyes. It's because of these round and oval shapes that Jung brings this painting into a book about UFOs. He sees the circ ular shape of reported UFOs as a symbol of wholeness, and finds this painting overflowing with versions of these symbolic UFOs. I mention this, to reinforce my own feeling that the darkened, oval/circular shapes are a striking feature of the painting. Jung certainly found them so. That then raises questions about the artist's intentions. If this were a fully realistic painting, and the ovals representing nostrils were the only shapes of their kind visible, then they'd probably be nostrils and nothing more. But this is a surrealistic picture (its title, which I neglected to mention, is "The Fourth Dimension"), and the dark ovals and circles are an important repeated motif. Before I go any further, I want to stress that I'm talking art here, and not UFOs. I know very well from my own work as a composer that structural motifs take on a life of their own. You can find a perfect, and very familiar, example in the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. DA DA DA DUMMMMMMM! That's how it starts, and it's safe to say that even people who don't know classical music can recognize it. (They play it, for God's sake, at Shea Stadium, whenever a Mets game gets tense.) But as Beethoven uses that striking fragment of music, its rhythm takes on a life of its own. It permeates the first and third movements of the symphony. Other musical ideas, even melodies, take their shape from it. That leads to a kind of chicken vs. egg question, very familiar in musical analysis. When Beethoven unveils the second big theme of his first movmennt, and it starts with the same rhythm, what's he doing? Unfurling a complete new melody, in which the rhythm is buried, or unveiling a new instance of the rhythm, with the melody only its outer guise? This is a roundabout way of asking the same question about the alien eyes, aka nostrils. Given that the dark, repeated oval/circular shapes are a striking motif of the painting, which came first, the nostrils or the ovals? That is, did the painter set out to paint a giant brooding face, and just happen to make the nostrils so striking? Or did he have the dark ovals on his mind, and use the giant face as yet another occasion to introduce them? The proper answer (and in the Beethoven example, too) is probably "both." The important thing to understand, in any case, is that the nostrils have a life of their own in the painting. It can't be a coincidence that they're echoed elsewhere. It's striking that some of the echoes are eyes. And -- pending a lot at the original (wherever it may be) -- I don't think I'm wrong to extract the nostrils and some of the detail surrounding them as a separate image of their own. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:40:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:11:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:50:21 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Report on The Great Roswell Loonfest >> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:09:45 -0800 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) >> Subject: Report on Great Roswell Loonfest >> Just... back... circuits... overloaded... attempting... download... >> Mission accomplished: A Research Center expeditionary force (2 adults >> & 3 children) successfully penetrated Roswell at the height of the >> Great Loonfest and got out alive. We lasted only about 20 hours in >> town. We were charmed, then amused, then annoyed, then SCREAMING TO >> GET THE HELL OUT. >> We couldn't get near the "International UFO Museum and Research >> Center", but since I had been there a couple of years ago, I don't >> think I missed anything. This is also a big alien souvenir outlet. >> They do sell some books, too, but I was told by a journalist that they >> decline to sell any book that is critical of the Roswell crash claims >> -- only those that toe the "party line." Is this research or religion? >[snip] >>Glenn Campbell =========================================================================== Stan Friedman writes, >Re Glenn Campbell: I hadn't realized that Glenn Campbell is psychic. He >knows what was in the Roswell museum because he was there 2 years ago. >Fact is the facility has moved into amuch larger museum and has many >new exhibits. He spent 20 hours and knows what was in the lectures >though he heard none of the dozen. Amazing. I surely didn't show slides >when I was on Art Bell.Personally I spent 5 days there and thought the >people were great and both museums were busy. I did only spend a few >minutes in the exhibit area looking for someone.. guess Glenn wasn't >interested in data only merchandise..Nothing like a rush to judgement. >Perhaps he was jealous of those of us besieged by interviewers. >Stan Friedman =========================================================================== I agree with Stan and Melanie and others that the trip to Roswell was fun, the people were absolutely great, (I ate breakfast at the same restaurant every morning and had an opportunity to meet some of the locals, they were genuinely sweet people). And that the 'commercial orgy' that was going on was something that one could choose to avoid and still have enough things to do and interesting people to hear to fill every hour of the days spent there. I went on three or four hours sleep a night! Busy, busy, busy! <G> Wherever you go, you take yourself with you. I was in a good mood, and went with expectations of having a good time. I did. I guess if you focused on looking for, and seeing, 'negative stuff' you could find it and use what you'd found to justify your own beliefs and expectations. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 The AA video From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:51:27 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:47:18 -0400 Subject: The AA video Hello All, My question is to Bob Shell. Bob recently on this mailing list you said; "Similarly, on the AA film. I don't know what it is, but I know a number of things that it positively is not, and recently crafted fake is one of them." Would you please inform the List how you were able to positively reach the conclusion that the AA video was not recently crafted. Thanks, Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 21 UFOR: Chupacabras, Part 2 (Research Interviews by From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 00:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:40:30 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Chupacabras, Part 2 (Research Interviews by From: Lucy Pla <Lucy_Pla@compuserve.com> Chupacabars parte 2 An interview with Ms. Madelyne Tolentino and her husband, Mr. Jos=E9 Miguel Agosto, conducted by Lucy Pl=E1 and Jos=E9 Manuel Rodr=EDguez of the Puerto= =20 Rican Research Group, on March 20th, 1996 in Can=F3vanas, P.R. This interview is divided in two file: chuin1.txt (part I) and=20 chuin2.txt (part 2). Part II of the interview: Miguel: Hello. Lucy: Hi, I'm Lucy Pl=E1 . Miguel: I'm Madelyne's husband, Jos=E9 Miguel Agosto. Lucy: What kind of bites does the creature make? Miguel: Surgical cuts. Perfect ones. If they were made by an animal or=20 wild dogs they would tear the flesh, but no, these ara perfect cuts, as if made by a scalpel. Lucy: Where on the body does it make them? Miguel: Around the throat area or near the genitals. In many cases it=20 has taken the animal's genitals. Lucy: How does it remove them? Miguel: It apparently rips them out and takes them, since they are=20 nowhere to be found. It has taken their livers and other body parts. They once brought a rooster which had had all the inside of its head taken out. You'd look at the rooster and it was hollow. It had its head, but hollow. Lucy: But how could it have extracted the contents of a head? Miguel: By means of some incisions it made. There's no good explanation for it. Jos=E9: Dead animals are turning up in Miami. Miguel: And in California. Lucy: Have there been cases involving household animals such as dogs? MT: Goats, rabbits, roosters, cats... Miguel: The cats in Juncos. We went there because she called us. The=20 lady called the Civil Defense, the police, the Fortaleza [Governor's Resience] and nobody, nobody went. MT: And we had to go show our faces. No one wanted to listen to her.=20 No one. Lucy: What became of the cats? MT: They lived. Lucy: What happened to them? MT: It made some orifices beside their anuses. Excreta was coming=20 out of the orifices. The lady was scared. Miguel: She noticed that the cats were [urinating and defecating] all at=20 once. She had two cats. There were three punctures and some of=20 them only had one. Lucy: What else have you seen? Miguel: Here in Barrio Quebrada Prieta in Can=F3vanas there was also the=20 case of some mutilated sheep. Some TV cameramen showed up and when=20 they lifted the goat's foot, it had a tiny little hole. Suddenly, the hole sort of opened and they could see its intestines and=20 everything else inside. The cameraman filmed it all with his=20 camera. It's as if its ribs were missing. Lucy: What was around the sheep? Miguel: There was no blood on the wound nor on the ground. Jos=E9: No blood? Miguel: It sometimes leaves them with some blood. The strange thing is that when it leaves them with some blood, it won't flow. The=20 blood remains within the body. Jos=E9: It coagulates? Miguel: No, it's not coagulated and it doesnt' flow either. We noticed=20 at Lt. Jorge Rivera's house, when we were checking out some goats=20 and sheep, that the characteristics were exactly the same. In=20 other words, three perforations and in some cases only a single one running from one side to another. The sheep had been dead for a day or more and were still flexible, not stiff at all.=20 These are the things that make you think. It's as if the creature gave them a liquid that kept them entirely flexible and kept their blood from coagulating. Jos=E9: Did they smell? Miguel: Yes, very strongly. A bad odor. Jos=E9: Was it the typical smell of decomposition? Miguel: Well...yes, somewhat. But please remember that when an animal=20 decomposes the worms appear right away, and there were no worms=20 either. Lucy: Would other animals come close? Miguel: No. That was weird, too. Lucy: Has anyone noticed smells or noises when the mutilations occur? Miguel: Yes. In the Lomas del Viento sector of Campo Rico we observed the=20 area where the creature was appeareing 3 to 4 days in a row. One=20 of those days, a girl saw the creature walking down in the pose everyone has seen it adopt: on two legs with its arms in an attack gesture. That day she told her husband, who doubted it because it was so hard to belive. The following day we found the dead sheep=20 and goat. We reported to the scene and there were also some Civil Defense elements. Lucy: What does the Civil Defense do in such cases? Miguel: Frankly, some of them took notice of the case, but the cameramen from Channel 11 and others showed up looking for evidence. We had a dying goat with several perforation. We were able to check it out completely. Lucy: Are you with the Civil Defense? Miguel: No, but as any responsible citizen and volunteer I'm interested, having had the experience of seeing the creature and reaching a conclusion of what is going on. Jos=E9: Do you know Chemo? Miguel: Yes. After we checked out the sheep, we found it had few=20 perforations and little blood. We wished to speak with Dr.=20 Carlos Soto, the veterinarian, who had told us that any dying=20 animal or any one adequate for his study should be taken to his=20 office. He said he would help us out. We called and he told us to=20 bring it in, since it was still alive. When we spoke to Mr. Aguayo of the Civil Defense, he said no. Lucy: Why did he say no? Miguel: Because he wasn't authorized to leave the jurisdiction. I believe that in an emergency situation such as this one, the Civil Defense should be able to leave their jurisdiction. I believe the situation calls for more government help in order to benefit the investigation. Lucy: Is the government not involving itself? Miguel: I'd say a little bit more now. If they had let us take the dying sheep to Dr. Soto at that moment, we would be closer to the truth. Lucy: No one wanted to bring it in? Miguel: We could've, but my Jeep was in no condition to make a long trip.=20 We called Dr. Soto and he came the following day. The sheep died=20 as he arrived...he was able to take samples. Lucy: What were the results? Miguel: The samples showed that the attacker was no known animal. He has conducted many autopsies and says that what is killing these=20 animals is nothing known. Lucy: At what time did you see the creature? Miguel: It was around 7:00 a.m. I was in my shop fixing a truck. When I=20 turned the ignition over it made a very loud noise. I ran down to see what was going on and I noticed that creature coming out from under the engine. It's worth noting that the pad cover was missing between the fan and the radiator. There was a space about a foot=20 to a foot and a half wide where someone could have hidden. It ran out, gave me a look, and jumped over the fence. Lucy: How did it jump? Miguel: It propelled itself upward. It jumped all of a sudden. Lucy: How did it fall? Miguel: Frankly, the creature never hit the ground. It jumped and vanished at a spectacular speed. Lucy: Could you measure the speed? Miguel: It was too fast. It was like seeing a reflection. Lucy: Were the fins on its back moving? Miguel: I didn't get to see that, but when it came out I noticed that=20 it looked like a kangaroo. It was large, like a giant rabbit, but it lacked the tail and the front pouch of a kangaroo. I'm=20 knowledgeble about animals and birds and I've never seen anything=20 like this creature. Lucy: What were its skin and hair like? Miguel: Short, but thick and well combed. When I opened the truck's hood=20 I saw a lot of hair and wool in the air. Lucy: Did you take samples? Miguel: No, because I was uncertain about what it was. Lucy: Did you notice any smells? Miguel: Yes. I thought it was battery acid. I thought the truck's battery=20 was leaking. I never thought that the creature was producing it. Lucy: Did you hear noise or buzzing? Miguel: No, none. But the second time I saw it, when my wife was coming along Route 185 in Can=F3vanas back home and saw the creature for=20 the second time. She told me what she'd seen and I got on the van with her uncle and reported to the scene. We saw nothing at first. When we left we decided to take a look in the woods bordering the Loiza Valley development, since the creature had killed some rabbits there. WHen we reached the place, the creature floated right over us, suspended in the air. Lucy: Was it flying? Miguel: No, not flying. I know what it is to see a bird fly or balance itself. This thing was floating. Lucy: Did it flap its fins? Miguel: We couldn't tell if it did or not. It was already around 8:00 p.m.= =20 We saw the animal's silhouette. It had human-like arms and legs.=20 It was precisely the same creature but suspended in the air. Lucy: How long was it suspended? Miguel: About a minute at a height of 25 feet. We could see it well,=20 because of the full moon. It was a clear night and the reflection [of the city lights] helped us out. Lucy: In other words, it levitated? Miguel: Exactly. It was defying the laws of gravity. Lucy: Was it looking at you? Miguel: Apparently it was aware of us. My wife's uncle, who was with me,=20 is a fifty-six year old gentleman and was very scared. Lucy: How old are you? Miguel: Thirty-two. I was also shocked to see a creature suspended in=20 mid-air. People are saying that its a wild dog o ape, but no dog=20 or ape can hang in the air like this one. What is it we're dealing=20 with? It's a completely unknown creature. Lucy: What's your take on this creature? Miguel: In my opinion, it could be an experiment that we aren't aware of. Lucy: You mean an experiment conducted by humans? Miguel: Exactly. Lucy: Have you had UFOs or extraterrestrials around these parts? Miguel: My neighbor was close to one of them. Lucy: What did he see? Miguel: A large saucer with many lights, about thirty or forty meters wide,= =20 suspended in the air and making a loud buzzing sound. Jos=E9: How high up was it? Miguel: Some 40 or 50 feet high. They looked at it for a good long while. After some 3 minutes more or less, it disappeared. I was looking=20 toward El Yunque once and I noticed a star-like thing that was=20 shooting colored laser beams sideways. We saw it for a few minutes=20 before it vanished. Lucy: What is the purpose of the gear Linda Moulton gave you? Miguel: Infrared equipment. She originally told us that it was from CNN or= =20 something like that. She's a reporter and devotes herself to=20 investigating this phenomenon. She's written books and all. She gave it to me as a gift, since we've taken it upon ourselves to=20 continue the investigation after having had our own experience. Lucy: In other words, you go out every day hoping to catch it? Miguel: Almost every night. What I want to do is take its picture. Lucy: What is that you're holding? Miguel: It's a mock-up of the project we're conducting. Note: The mock-up is contained in a box. It represents a field with a wire box in its middle, connected with cables to the far right,=20 where it connects to another box. At the left, there's a figure of a man holding a camera. MIguel: See? This would be me holding the camera...this is a decoy, a bird= =20 or a sheep...and this [points elsewhere] is where we were going to=20 ground a battery cable with the positive cable grounded as well, to create a magnetic field of sorts...this is a project which some scientists believed would attract the creature, but it didn't work. Lucy: What was the name of the project and who directed it? Miguel: Project EPOCA. It was directed by Linda Moulton and John Caldea. Lucy: When was it conducted? Miguel: From December 1995 to January 1996. Lucy: How long did it last? Miguel: Some two months or so, almost every night. Lucy: What else has happened? Miguel: One night, Chemo, the mayor of Can=F3vanas, called me at two o'clock= =20 in the morning because some people had had a close encounter with the creature that night. We reported to the area. We checked it out=20 and the animals were restless. Lucy: Who went? Miguel: Only ourselves. Chemo didn't want to call the Civil Defense, saying= =20 that they would make too much noise. Lucy: What equipment did you carry? Miguel: A photo camera, since our goal is to capture it on film. MT: Miguel, tell her about the piece of meat from Lomas del Viento. Miguel: Oh,right! I found a piece of meat. That was in Lt. Jorge Rivera's=20 home. It was a rather large chunk. It was stuck inside a cubbyhole he uses to store tools. That's where the piece of meat was. Lucy: What's so special about this piece of meat? Miguel: It was fresh and covered with slime. Lucy: Did you have it analyzed? Miguel: No, because quite frankly, it was unpleasant. No one dared pull=20 it out and bring in for analysis. In another place we found a hair sample with the same unpleasant odor emitted by the creature. Lucy: What did you do with it? Miguel: I gave it to Jorge Mart=EDn. He took it to be analyzed. He later= told me that the analysis proved that it didn't belong to any known animal. Lucy: What else has happened? Miguel: We went to a place in Dorado because some spaceships had allegedly= =20 deposited some creatures. We investigated but had no results=20 whatsoever. Lucy: Who told you that a spaceship had dropped off creatures? Miguel: Area residents. Lucy: What was it they saw? Miguel: Mr. Jorge Mart=EDn of "Evidencia Ovni" magazine could give you a=20 better answer. Some said that they descended from the saucer.=20 Others say that they came down in single file with slightly taller beings. Some of thei neighbors pointed out that the lagoons in the region would bubble up when those creatures were present. They=20 bubbled strangely. Lucy: So you're telling me that the mere presence of the creatures in=20 the area caused the water to bubble? Miguel: Yes. Lucy: What else concerning the Chupacabras? Miguel: The creature attacked a Chow dog at policeman Juan Collazo's home.= =20 He heard some noises in the lower part of his home. He went down with his service revolver and he saw the creature attacking his=20 dog. He immediately fired at it. His car was parked behind the=20 creature. The creature took the bullet's initial impact, bounced=20 off the wall, took off in a flash and disappeared. He says that it flew off. Something truly incredible. Lucy: Was the dog struggling with the creature? Miguel: There was a struggle between the dog and the creature. That's what he heard. Lucy: Did the creature get to hurt the dog? Miguel: The creature had apparently shaved the place on the dog where it was going to make its incision. Lucy: So you're telling me that the creature cleans the spot where it's=20 going to make the incision? Miguel: Precisely. In fact, when we visited Mr. Negr=F3n's house in Campo=20 Rico, in the La Pir mide sector, we found a sheep with perforations hich had a cauterized area surrounding them. There were no traces of blood on the sheep or the surrounding area. Lucy: Is the slime a constant factor in all cases? Miguel: No, only in some. There are others in which the animal has no blood= =20 inside. The incised area doesn't look inflamed either. Lucy: What are the incisions like? Miguel: Sometimes they're perfect circles. Lucy: What size? Miguel: Some two or three inches more or less. They expand, but there's no= =20 inflammation in the area. Lucy: Are there organs missing in every case? Miguel: In almost every case. They once brought us a rooster that was=20 missing its brains. It almost always tears off the left ear. In=20 other cases it has taken bones from the trachea, the=20 jawbones -- all through tiny holes. I'm not sure if you noticed that a sheep in Miami had part of its ribcage drawn out through a tiny hole. It's incredible. Elieser Rivera and I reached the=20 conclusion that it could be something like a spur that emerges from its mouth. It could be that the spur helps it perforate=20 and extract the organs, fluids and bones from the animal. Lucy: What's the name of your friend who saw the creature produce the spur from its mouth the day Madelyne saw it? Miguel: Mr. Elieser Rivera. Lucy: Do you feel there's more than one creature? Miguel: Yes, because Mr. Jorge Mart=EDn is in touch with us. He tells us=20 where there's been activity at the time. Lucy: When was the last time you saw the creature around here? Miguel: A month ago. There was a case while I was in Miami and there was another in Vieques. Lucy: Has it ever attacked anyone? Miguel: No, I don't think so. Lucy: Do you carry weapons on your searches? Miguel: Elieser Rivera was armed and he couldn't fire. Lt. Rivera carried a shotgun and he couldn't fire. It's as if the thing controlled his mind. When Collazo fired at it the bullet went out. The=20 creature shed no blood and the distance was only nine feet. Lucy: Where was the first mutilation in Puerto Rico? Miguel: Here and then in Orocovis. Lucy: Have other people seen the creature and confirmed the description? Miguel: Yes. This thing is real. Lucy: Is the sketch we have here the one based on your description of the creature? Miguel: Yes. It was made by Jorge Mart=EDn. It's the right one, but the=20 spines don't come out of its head. They start farther down. Lucy: Well, many thanks for your cooperation and your hospitality. Miguel: Thank you. Note: ***First part of this interview is in file chuint1.txt*** Thank to Mr. Scott Carrales for the traduction work of=20 this interview. This interview is going to be in Mr. Scott Carrales book "Chupacabras and Other Mysteries" that is going to be=20 available to the public this August 1997. =09 This interview is for your own enjoyment not for commercial=20 purpose unless autorice by creator Lucy Pl=E1=20 <Lucy_Pla@compuserve.com> or the Puerto Rican Research Group.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:40:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:04:29 GMT Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> To: updates@globalserve.net > Rebecca, how can you say this? How well do you know Kent? > He could have you fooled, especially if he has been sent by > the CIA. That is something he may not even divulge to his wife. I know him well enough to know he doesn't have a wife. I speak to Kent Jeffrey at least once a week, sometimes multiple times a day. I maintained his email for a good bit of last year. I was responsible for handling some of his material and I know many fine people, whom I trust, that know Kent quite well. I trust that he is not CIA. And I don't know why I have to justify how well I know someone to SOMEONE I DON'T EVEN KNOW! Using your logic Roger, hell, you could be CIA doing some kind of anti-debunking debunking technique. You do work for a NASA contractor, don't you? That makes you suspicious right there. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:49:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:40:00 -0400 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' > His interview with three cameramen was well done, but how many cameramen > did he actually interview, and what was there selection process. Could he > perhaps have found three other cameramen with different views if his goal > had been to show that the "film" was real? Several military cameramen have > posted information to the "net" that would seem to support the validity of > the technique shown, and in the end all of Kent's statements of proof are > just as annecdotal as everthing else in this circus. All good questions perhaps better answered by Kent Jeffrey and/or his cameramen witnesses. BTW, have you attempted to verify is any of these cameramen (Kent's or the "net" ones) were indeed real cameramen? To the best of my knowledge Kent called the cameramen's association (don't remember the name of the organization but it is in his SCAM article) and was given names/phone #'s of three people: Longo, Gibson and McGovern. I think the first 3 he spoke to gave him all the same (or nearly the same answers) but to be sure I would recommend that you contact Kent for the additional and/or correct details. How many should he have interviewed? It's easy to criticize what we ourselves have not investigated. You have proof that Kent's cameramen are incorrect? Present the evidence and confront them but don't do it on the "net" until AFTER you have contacted the men with whom you may disagree. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Roswell - The After Math II From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:02:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:02:47 -0400 Subject: Roswell - The After Math II =20 From: http://www.weeklywire.com/ww/current/tw_curr1.html The Tucson Weekly Crash Fest Roswell Makes An All-Amercan Fortune Off The Saucer Suckers. By Jim Nintzel July 14, 1997: IT'S NOT UNUSUAL for a small town to do something=20 special on the Fourth-of-July weekend. City fathers and civic=20 organizations often sponsor fireworks shows, parades, picnics,=20 horseshoe tournaments and the occasional tug-of-war competition=20 to celebrate our nation's birthday. But not many communities build festivals around the notion that=20 the United States government, in conjunction with an elite=20 military command, has for the last half-century conspired to keep=20 the American people in the dark about extraterrestrial beings who=20 have a sinister tendency to mutilate our cattle and abduct our=20 citizens in order to steal genetic material--and generally in a=20 painful and intrusive manner. Then again, most towns aren't like Roswell, New Mexico, which has=20 the dubious distinction of being synonymous with UFO crashes and=20 government cover-ups. The charming farming community is the only=20 place where the U.S. military has ever announced capturing a=20 flying saucer. In July 1947, following the recovery of strange debris from a=20 rancher's field outside of Roswell, military officials sent out a=20 press release declaring the Army Air Force had taken possession=20 of the wreckage of a flying saucer: "The many rumors regarding=20 the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence=20 office of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell=20 Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc=20 through the co-operation of the one of the local ranchers and the=20 Sheriff's office of Chaves County." The military quickly retracted the story, later telling an=20 excited collection of reporters the wreckage was nothing more=20 than a wayward weather balloon. Military officials stuck to that=20 story until just a few years ago, when, under pressure from New=20 Mexico Congressman Steven Schiff to explain what really happened=20 at Roswell, the Air Force announced they had covered up the real=20 story: The wreckage was actually from Project Mogul, a=20 top-secret, high-altitude balloon project designed to track=20 Soviet nuclear tests. The admission did little to sway Roswell investigators, who=20 reject the Project Mogul explanation as just another cover story. Whatever the truth, Roswell has seized on its unique reputation=20 as ground zero in the hunt for UFOs--and festival organizers have=20 a rousing success on their hands. At the Roswell Encounter, as last weekend's festivities were=20 dubbed, a soapbox derby was spun into the Crash-and-Burn UFO=20 extravaganza, the all-you-can-eat pancake competition became a=20 flying-saucer-eating contest, and the annual fun run became an=20 Alien Chase, with some runners donning ET costumes. The local art=20 museum presented a UFO quilt exhibit, and a local theatrical=20 troupe performed Ezekiel's Wheels, an original stagework=20 exploring the possibility that Ezekiel's Biblical encounter with=20 a "flaming wheel" may have been an early close encounter. Main Street's windows were decorated not with patriotic themes,=20 but with images of the now-familiar small grey alien and=20 multitudes of flying saucers, inspired no doubt partly by the=20 best-alien-window-theme-display competition, worth $250 to the=20 winner. The 50,000 residents of Roswell, from Mayor Tom Jennings to the=20 roadhouse bartenders, seem to have fully embraced their town's=20 curious legend. "Who's to say it didn't happen?" asked one clerk at the local=20 Target, who was sporting a T-shirt boasting the company logo=20 mutating into the head of a small grey. Shoppers were snatching=20 up all the UFO books, dolls and fashion T's the store manager had=20 the foresight to stock. The fest also brought the UFO cognoscenti to town, from UFO=20 researchers Stanton Friedman, Linda Moulton Howe and Don Schmitt=20 to abductee experts John Mack, Whitley Strieber and Budd Hopkins.=20 Even Erich Von D=E4niken, who set the UFO world afire with Chariots=20 of the Gods back in the 1970s, traveled from his home in=20 Switzerland to be a featured speaker at the Encounter. Because this was the 50th anniversary of the crash, the media=20 took a particular interest in Roswell. In the weeks before the=20 festival, the story ended up on the covers of Time and Popular=20 Science and got airtime everywhere from Hard Copy to The=20 McLaughlin Group. The town also got an unexpected boost from the=20 U.S. military, which released a report in late June suggesting=20 that reports of the recovery of alien beings were inspired by=20 high-altitude operations involving crash-test dummies--a report=20 so hard to swallow that it reinforced the notion of a cover-up=20 among most UFO buffs. By the time the celebration rolled around, the media were=20 reporting that 100,000 people were expected to hit town. Those=20 estimates proved wildly overstated--ultimately, closer to 40,000=20 people flocked to Roswell for the Independence Day weekend,=20 bringing with them a fiscal ripple worth an estimated $2 million. While many of those dollars were spent on motel rooms and in=20 restaurants, the invaders also dropped a bundle on a very large=20 array of UFO paraphernalia. Vendors packed Roswell's community=20 center and nearby streets, hawking T-shirts, books, tapes,=20 jewelry and even jars containing alien specimen remains. The only obvious flop was out at the alleged crash site, 20 miles=20 north of town, on the sheep-and-cattle ranch owned by Hub Corn.=20 UFO aficionados regularly make pilgrimages to the ranch,=20 wandering for hours hoping to find some sort of remains missed by=20 the military's clean-up. Music promoter John Brower cut a deal with Corn to have a=20 mega-concert from the impact site complete with live coverage on=20 MTV, but that plan crashed and burned after sponsors got cold=20 feet in the wake of the mass suicide of the Heaven's Gate UFO=20 cult. But the plucky Brower persisted with his plans to create an alien=20 Woodstock, arranging for campers to rent tents with two cots=20 apiece for a mere $90 a night, payable through Ticketmaster. On=20 Saturday and Sunday nights, Brower had booked several techno=20 bands to perform in a "Crash Site Electronic Exotic and=20 Experimental Music Festival." Despite the elaborate plans, there were few takers. On Thursday=20 night, only five campers turned up, and most of them were gone by=20 Friday. Adding to Brower's woes, Corn pulled the plug on the rave=20 when the promoter failed to get permits for it. But while Brower's scheme collapsed, hundreds of people still=20 stopped by the ranch for $15 tours of the site. On Independence=20 Day, a newly installed shrine was blessed by Native American=20 dancers. Much of the credit for the festival goes to Stan Crosby, a local=20 businessman who first hit upon the idea of playing up the UFO=20 legend in the form of an annual festival. His wife Deon, who=20 serves as director of one of the town's two UFO museums, says=20 Crosby wanted to create a fun and profitable event for the town. "Stan's main goal is to create a tourism industry," she says.=20 "We've targeted not only the serious people, but the families.=20 People can bring their families and they don't have to feel=20 they're being preached to and they can still be related to UFO=20 and alien activities. It's going great." ________________________________________ From: http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/071997/hotcheck.htm Lubbock Avalanche-Journal 19 Jul 97 Hot-check scam in Roswell stirs federal interest By JOHN WISE Avalanche-Journal The U.S. Secret Service in Albuquerque, N.M., acknowledged Friday=20 that it has entered an investigation into $92,000 in hot checks=20 written earlier this month from a bank account started with a=20 bogus check in Roswell. ''I know we're helping the Roswell police in their investigation=20 (of the hot checks), but we can't release comments during any=20 investigation,'' Secret Service Agent Samuel Bizzini said Friday. Roswell police have been investigating the hot checks apparently=20 written by Anaheim, Calif., entertainment promoter Jeffrey=20 Immediato, who was in town for the Roswell UFO Alien Experience=20 July 1-6. At least two hotels and a rental car agency were affected by the=20 round of about 30 rubber checks and several invalid cashiers=20 checks. Immediato ostensibly was in town promoting several comedy acts and=20 some circus-like side acts, but Roswell organizer Stan Crosby said=20 soon after the checks bounced that he had no idea who Immediato was=20 working with. The Roswell festival brought in about 48,000 people during the week,=20 and state officials estimate an economic impact of up to $5 million. Roswell police Detective Daren Treadwell said he initially had hoped=20 to have a warrant issued for Immediato's arrest by Friday. But Treadwell said Friday he ran into a brick wall when he learned=20 the Bank of America in Roswell had turned over the counterfeit check=20 - allegedly deposited by Immediato - to federal agents. He said the=20 check was crucial evidence for his case. ''I don't know how this is going to work,'' he said. ''I might know=20 more by Monday.'' Treadwell said unless Immediato is found for questioning, the=20 businesses and bank will simply have to take their losses and move=20 on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Airforce Dummies - Athens Daily News, July 21, '97 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:08 -0400 Subject: Airforce Dummies - Athens Daily News, July 21, '97 From: http://www.athensnewspapers.com/archives/062597/0625.ufo.html 11:11 PM on July 21 - Athenaeum - Athens Daily News - Georgia. Air Force explanation falls flat to UFO buffs By Robert Burns Associated Press WASHINGTON - The Air Force is sticking to its story. Those weren't alien bodies secretly recovered from a UFO crash site in New Mexico half a century ago. They were dummies. "Case closed," the Air Force insists in a 231-page report released Tuesday on the so-called Roswell "incident." Not so fast, say believers. "If you've seen an alien, you would know the difference between that and a stupid crash dummy," said Barb Sauerman, the switchboard operator at the Roswell mayor's office. And Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, said the report raised more questions than it answered - and certainly was not sufficient to let the Air Force wash its hands of the controversy. "It's not going to do that at all," she said. The most likely explanation for the unverified alien reports made in July 1947, the Air Force said, relates to life-size dummies dropped from the skies during a series of experiments in the 1950s. What is not fully explained, however, is how people could have confused events that happened a decade apart. "If you find that people talk about things over a period of time, they begin to lose exactly when the date was," said Col. John Haynes, an Air Force declassification officer who presented the report at a Pentagon news conference. "I have no other explanation." To illustrate the room for confusion, Haynes showed file footage from the 1950s of dummies dressed in Air Force flight suits pulled aloft by enormous high-altitude balloons, then dropped to earth. The object was to devise a way pilots or astronauts could reach earth if forced to escape at extremely high altitudes. The black-and-white footage is a one-of-a-kind collection of Air Force film and photos, including a shot of a fully outfitted dummy called "Sierra Sam" standing upright with his arms outstretched over the shoulders of two officers. The majority of the dummies - which had skeletons of aluminum or steel, skin of latex or plastic, cast aluminum skulls and instrument cavities in their torsos and heads - landed outside military bases in eastern New Mexico, near Roswell, the Air Force report said. But skeptics are still skeptical. "I think this (explanation) is a real stretch," said Karl Pflock, a UFO researcher in New Mexico. But Pflock says he doesn't think the Roswell incident involved alien spacecraft. Thus the most lasting of UFO lore is likely to live on. "They've got egg on their face and they've not done anything to remove it," said Walter Haut, who was the public information officer at Roswell Army Air Field in 1947. In this 50th anniversary year of the Roswell incident, the Air Force says the spaceship legend grew from a combination of honest misunderstandings by people unfamiliar with Air Force operations in New Mexico and deliberate distortions of actual events by publicity seekers. "Some persons may legitimately ask why the Air Force expended time and effort to respond to mythical, if not comedic, allegations," the Air Force report said. The essential reason for responding, it said, was to set the record straight. The Air Force answered the first key question in 1994: Was the debris recovered near Roswell from a flying saucer? The answer was no, the alleged spacecraft was actually foil-coated fabric and other parts of a crashed Air Force balloon that was pulling a "train" of radar reflectors and other devices, the service said. But the second question had never been addressed in detail: Were alien bodies removed from the site, carted off to a military hospital and the whole thing hushed up? The report says there simply is nothing in its records from the 1940s - classified or unclassified - that raises even the remotest possibility of a recovery of extraterrestrial beings or anything else resembling life forms in the Roswell area. The only possible explanation, it says, is the test dummies.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:07:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:40 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Hi Bob, hi All, Hi Bob, Hi Errol Hi All >So, here goes. >Mr Shell would you please tell us if you have had an opportunity to inspect >a piece of the original AA film, or if it is only video that you have >worked with? Being that I am one of the "few"? who believe that the AA film could well be genuine, boy do I wish that this is so, I would also like to add Please Bob could you tell us all to finally finish this debate Did you inspect the actual film footage or video of the film footage? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Roswell snap-shots From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:37:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:09 -0400 Subject: Roswell snap-shots Errol, this is the 'good copy', I'm not sure if I inadvertently sent you the rough draft, use this copy for post if you deem it a worthy one. John ========================================================================== Hi Errol, hi All, It occurred to me that one of the things that made the trip to Roswell so much fun and so gratifying was having had the opportunity to meet, and spend time with some of the folks from our UFO UpDates list. I want to share some of that with all of you guys who couldn't attend yourselves for whatever reasons. Here are some quick impressions. Errol Bruce-Knapp- This one isn't fair, because I'm prejudiced when it comes to Errol. I consider him to be as close to my heart as a family member. Errol is one of the brightest, most interesting, fun and easy to be with people I have ever known. Spending some time with my soul brother, the 'Great Bearded One' from the icy climes up north was one of the (primary) factors that contributed to my being there at all. Sue Kovios- Smart, open, honest, intuitive, warm and (very pretty to boot!) A deadly combination of attributes as a certain large male Canadian I know will testify. My friendship and very warm feelings for Sue were already in place long before this trip.<G> Rebecca Shatte- I've always been impressed with Rebecca. She's as sharp as they come, and with all of the prerequiste intelligence, character and confidence it takes to pull it off successfully. She's also hugable as all get out and I'm grateful that I had a chance to cement a personal friendship that we had already been nurturing. I respect you Rebecca for your honesty, and I love you because you have more "Balls" in your little finger than most grown men have in their whole body! And, that's no lie.<G> Dennis Stacy- Not quite as tall as I'd imagined! <G> But the proportions of the man I did get to meet turned out to be as "human" as one could want in a person. I wish I'd had more time to talk with Dennis one on one. He's a guy that has strong convictions, takes the time to think about things, and sticks to his guns when it's time to. The kind of guy you would want next to you if you were belly down in a ditch facing live fire. Someone who doesn't get run off easily. Stan Friedman- I had two run-ins with Stan (in the Parking lot of the Sally-Port Inn of all places!) and the thing that comes across in waves from him is his personal warmth. Stan Friedman was a genuine pleasure to meet and swap a few lines with. I hope we get to meet again. Kevin Randle- Kevin, (who was with Bob Estes, who _really is_ as BIG as Dennis Stacy 'claims to be') was literally the first person(s) that I ran into after checking into my hotel room. Mr Randle greeted me with a big smile, a warm handshake and the following opening line, "John, you have to stop posting so much to the UpDates list, do you have any idea how much time it takes to trash them all?" and he was smiling in my face the whole time! Now that's either tempered steel cohones, or the guy has an unusual (with a twist) sense of humor. Haven't made up my mind yet which one applies. <G> Kevin Randle did hold his own with Karl Pflock and on a seperate occasion, Ted Koppel and Kent Jeffrey. He gave an intelligent and sober accounting of himself. (When he presented Karl Pflock with "Mogul debris", ie; balsa sticks, paper backed foil and tape, during their discussion, he again demonstrated a 'wicked' sense of humor.) Mike (and Cathy) Woods- Picture a young, tough, "Mugs McGuiness" from the old Bowery Boys movies of the thirties, only this is a "Mugsy" that made it in the world! <VBG> Mike Woods has a million dollar personality. You would literally have to go out of your way not to like this guy instantly. We're both city brats that grew up in some pretty tough concrete canyons, we had an instant rapport. Mike and his lovely wife Cathy were two of the nicest folks that I met while in Roswell and I hope that our new 'amigoship' thrives long after Roswell. Here's to, (as Homer Simpson would intone) the Woodseses! Micheal Lindemann- Sharp, warm guy, very intelligent and articulate. Michael knows his business and IMVHO, represents all of us well when he speaks publicly. (In the very best sense of the word, "representative.") It was a pleasure for me to meet him face to face. I have had some dealings with Mike (an article of mine that he published in CNI News, and an 'on air' analysis he performed for 'Strange Universe' of some daylight UFO video footage that I shot in the skies over NY. All of my interactions with Mike have been pleasant. I respect the guy for all that he contributes and meeting him in person has only served to confirm my good feelings about him. As Errol has mentioned in an earlier post, Mike Lindemann was an excellent speaker and moderator while in Roswell. Melanie Mecca- If you look up "Old soul" in a reference book you'll find a picture of Melanie. I haven't met too many folks in my life who have it all as "together" as she does. She also happens to be one of the most naturally psychic, wise and intuitive ladies I have ever encountered. Melanie was a joy to meet and someone that contributed immensely to my enjoyment of the Roswell trip. A serious 'class act'. Tom King & Jason DeGraf- My buddies from Phoenix! I don't have to tell anyone who has been a part of UFO UpDates how I feel about these two guys. Without having met each other in person, (prior to Roswell) we had already developed a strong friendship. I have fought for Tommy and Jason online with every bit of loyalty and fervor that I would put out for my own family members. These are two 'glorious bastards' and just plain two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet or know. What can I say, they're my buds. Mr and Mrs Bill Hamilton- I wanted to spend some time with Bill and his wife, but when I ran into them I was in the middle of a hunt for my 'roomie,' who was wandering around the town of Roswell in the middle of a lightning storm while I was in posession of our rented car! I really wanted to spend more time with Bill and his wife. They are lovely people and it would have been a golden opportunity to get to know them better. Bill, I'm sorry, but I was running around like a chicken without a head trying to 'rescue' my roomate from the storm. There were others that I was fortunate enough to spend some moments with, Whitley Strieber, John Mack, Bob Dean, Travis Walton and Mike Rogers, Yvonne Smith, Linda Moulton Howe, Jesse Marcel Jr, there are more but I'm starting to sound like that notorious name dropper, Charles Grodin! <G> I don't know how anyone can say that Roswell was a drag. I had a ball, from touch down to take off. I hope that this little 'review' helps you to feel a little closer to all of the folks mentioned. I know that I do. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell << Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiativ e Date: 97-07-21 13:13:36 EDT From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:31:52 -0400 >Let's not get carried away about Kent Jeffrey! >>Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell >>Initiative >>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Kent is obviously a bright, >>intelligent, well-educated man. However, his conclusions >>are truly unfounded, irrational and illogical. This leads >>me to believe he came to the Ufology "community" with a >>pre-planned goal, which is coined "Debunkery" <g> [snip] >However...let's not forget Jeffrey's main reasons for changing his >mind. He talked to many pilots who were at the base, and none of them >had heard of anything strange about the crash. And he talked to >high-ranking staff at the Foreign Technology Division at >Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and none of them say they'd heard >anything about an alien crash. The problem with this argument is that it overlooks sensitive compartmentalized information (SCI). What this means, simply is that those not authoritized or cleared to hear specific information will not be granted access to it. Kent's argument that he talked to 17 members of the 509th (not all pilots) who told him that they heard nothing about it is interesting but not relevant. Let's look instead at Blanchard's staff. Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer said that there was a crash of an alien craft. Patrick Saunders, the adjutant wrote in a copy of The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, "This is the truth and I never told anybody anything." Edwin Easley the provost marshal told me the craft was extraterrestrial. In other words, the men who would have had to know about the crash apparently did. Those who had no NEED TO KNOW apparently did not. Kent's argument there is without merit. We also learn that the officer's he surveyed at Wright- Patterson were there a decade AFTER the Roswell crash. Again, they maintain that if it happened, they would have had to know. BUT, if the material had been moved from Wright-Patterson and FTD, then they probably had NO NEED TO KNOW and therefore didn't. In other words, these arguments by Kent are without merit and mean nothing in the larger sense. Nothing presented by Kent was of sufficient importance for us to conclude that Roswell was a Mogul Balloon. KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:46:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez [snip] >The problem here is that if people in the limelight or with political >or scientific responsibilities are abducted, they are not going to >want to report it because they're smart enough to know they won't be >believed by many, and would instead be ridiculed and be the butt of >"little green men" jokes by other persons of responsibility or in >power. [snip] >The key example others here will likely point to also is the very >high official within the U.N. who was abducted. Well, allegedly abducted. But suppose he was, indeed. He - the hapless P.J. de Cuellar, sometime Secretary General of the UN - also denies it. Now suppose he is denying it, and that it happened, but that he duly took the aliens' and Linda's message to his bosom, and is now deeply concerned about the fate of molluscs, fishes, &c. Has anyone bothered to find out (a) what was de Cuellar's interest in environmental matters before November 1989, and (b) whether he has evinced any special interest or become more active in environmental issues since? If the answer to (a) is "low" and to (b) is "No he hasn't", then you can expect yet another ufological cock ("it's all cock") fight to break out between differing factions who conclude from this that on the one hand (i) JPdeC wasn't abducted and on the other (ii) not even the uncomfortable experience he underwent - being threatened with dead fish and shouted at by the doughty Linda, etc - persuaded him of the argument. [If so the aliens blew that one pretty thoroughly. In that case I'd guess that those who hatched & botched the plan were ordered to go into a time-warp back to 1947 and commit hari-kiri over the New Mexico desert, with the distressing consequences we all know. However, I digress.] But if (a) should be "low" and (b) should be "Yes he has - enormously", then the promoters of the case have a little circumstantial evidence on their side. Cue for more shouting, threats, accusations of depravity, idle laughter from cheaper seats, &c. It would still be interesting to know what the answers really are, even if it would be somewhat unkind to ask why no one raised these questions before. Yours &c Panjandrum D. Mendoza "Haven't you noticed how UFOs are all shaped like fast food?" --Reverend Transom K. Stoatwhistle, "The NWO and McSatan", 1991
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 UFO Shapes - 628 1996 Reports From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:20:59 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:12 -0400 Subject: UFO Shapes - 628 1996 Reports Recently three of us here in Australia were contemplating the fluff on our collective navel in the hope of discovering something new and important about alien technology and we were considering the various ufo shapes that were reported to see if this could help us. With that in mind I reviewed sighting reports in UFO Roundup for the year 1996 and this is what I came up with; please note that my methodolgy is a bit on the rough side but the figures make interesting reading. I found a total of 628 sightings. 301 sightings "lights" 78 sightings of triangles 44 sightings of discs 18 sightings of saucers 17 sightings of fireballs 14 sightings of cigars/cylinders 13 sightings of spheres 5 sightings of eggs 4 sightings of rectangles/oblongs 1 sighting of a cross 133 sightings of other shapes (boomerangs etc. or sightings where the shape was not mentioned) Stuart Livesey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Crop Circle Connector #32 From: Markk Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:40:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:13 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #32 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #32 Members = 1712 Update on The Crop Circle Connector. Tuesday 22nd July 1997 We would like to state, that every update you see below, will not be found on the What's New page. This is due to our increasing workload, and we apologise for the change in format, for the time being. ************************************************** First photographs of the Dutch Julia Set formation. The Circlemakers have excelled themselves in Holland! Update on Waverly, Nr Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. New image and report. See International Crop Circles 1997 ************************************************** All the Crop Circle Reports below can be found in Crop Circles 1997 page. ************************************************* Field report on the Stratford upon Avon formation Report by Antony Harding See Crop Circles 1997 ************************************************* New Formation Haselbury Plucknett, Nr Crewkerne, Somerset. Reported July 17th 1997. ************************************************* New Formation Poxford, Nr Dorchester, reported July 1st. ************************************************* New Formation Fen Lane, Hitchen, Nr Stowmarket, Suffolk. ************************************************ All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 The Ultimate Roswell Revelation Book? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 05:17:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:14 -0400 Subject: The Ultimate Roswell Revelation Book? On his weekly show on "Sightings On Radio" Michael Lindemann of CNI News told that the ensuing article was published in The Cincinnati Enquirer of July 6. He hopes to track down the two gentlemen who have written the book, but the article can be found on: http://www.sightings.com/ufo/ultimateros.htm The End of the Line =BF The Ultimate Roswell Revelation Book? By Jim Kippenberg The Cincinnati Enquirer Merciful heavens, it's the story that won't die, and never mind what they say.=20 Roswell, we mean, celebrating its 50th anniversary this weekend. Remember? In 1947, an alien spacecraft supposedly crashed near Roswell, N.M. The Army descended, did a clean-up, then departed with five aliens and a load of space debris.=20 The government says it never happened. A bunch of others disagree.=20 Among those differing: Cincinnati engineers Larry Rogers and Curt Robinson. They are even as we speak shopping a book on the topic.=20 Not your typical UFO buffs, these two, they began Roswell as a hobby three years ago. Two visits, thousands of dollars and dozens of libraries later, Ice Man Down is finished.=20 And startling, they promise. Very startling, and a story so ugly they don't want to tell but feel they must.=20 Problem is they're not telling until they have a firm publishing deal.=20 This much we know: Their premise is that it was more than a UFO crash. "That's the tip of the iceberg; the real story is bigger," Rogers says.=20 We also know the story spreads beyond Roswell, that the authors got lucky and found documentation, and that they consider the UFO bit a red herring tossed out to divert attention.=20 "I look at what we have," Robinson says, "and I say, Omigosh, what are we dealing with? Tell me it's not true.''=20 But it is, they both believe, and they promise we'll all find out. Soon.=20 =20 Email =BFeotl@west.net =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 BLM Directions for Roswell Crash Sites From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:48:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:48:36 -0400 Subject: BLM Directions for Roswell Crash Sites The only useful booth I found at the "UFO Trade Fair" at the recent Roswell fest was sponsored by the Bureau of Land Management -- or the Federal government itself! They gave out a small, succinct flyer telling how to get to the alleged UFO crash sites, as given in three renditions of the Roswell story. The full text of the flyer is below. BLM also gave out a brochure, "Rules for Camping and Other Recreational Uses on Public Lands in Southeast New Mexico." You can probably obtain one from the Roswell BLM office at 2909 West Second, Roswell, NM 88201. Tel 505-627-0272. Roughly a third of the land in that part of New Mexico is public and you are free to camp there without charge or permission for up to 14 days. However, you need a good land use map to know what is public. Official land use maps of Roswell and vicinity are available from BLM for about $5 each. (You can probably call to find out the details of ordering by mail.) ---------- Visiting The Sites RAGSDALE SITE: Four-wheel drive required. From US 285 turn west on Pine Lodge Rd. end travel 45 miles. Just past Mile Marker 33 is a sign for Boy Scout Mtn. Turn onto Forest Rd. 130 and drive 3.7 miles. Turn left onto a jeep road and drive a little more than a mile. You will cross a creek, climb a hill and see a stone campfire ring on the left at the crest of the hill. Follow a short trail to the rock, which is about 5 feet tall and is split in two. BRAZEL SITE: From Corona, go east on NM 247 and just past Mile Marker 17, turn right at the Corona Compressor Station sign. The site is about 16 miles southeast of the turnoff. It is on Bureau of Land Management property, which is open to the public but reaching the site requires passing through private ranch land, which is fenced and gated. Please ask for permission before entering and, if you enter, close all the gates behind you. CORN SITE: Drive north from Roswell on US 285. You will see a large sign advertising the crash site on the west side of the road about 20 miles north of town. The site sits about eight miles from US 285 on private land. It is closed to all but organized tours. Call 623-4043 and either Hub or Shiela Corn will set up a tour. Tours are $15 per person. Children under 13 are free ---------- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: Roswell Crash Sites
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Question for Kevin Randle From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:03:19 -0400 Subject: Question for Kevin Randle Kevin, Last year at MUFON's conference in North Carolina you gave a talk about considering the role that pop culture might play in abduction stories. Most people in the audience vehemently disagreed with your remarks by choosing to hear your message as All abductions are the result of pop culture. That was not the message that I heard you deliver and thought your talk was something investigators must take into account. After having this discussion with a number of people, some who were at the MUFON Conference, many still argue with me over what you said. This brings me to my rather point blank question: Is it your belief that all abduction stories are the result of pop culture? If you have any information about specific abduction cases being (in your opinion) the result of pop culture, would you cite them here please. Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Parachutist Of 'Dummy' Report Speaks Out From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 05:29:46 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:49:00 -0400 Subject: Parachutist Of 'Dummy' Report Speaks Out Inductee Recalls Record Jumps, Roswell Rumors =20 Dayton Daily News=20 Sat, Jul 19 1997=20 NATIONAL AVIATION HALL OF FAME * A distinguished test pilot and parachutist is remembered by some for a day in the desert.=20 Joe Kittinger broke a parachuting record that has stood since 1960, participated in experiments that paved the way to send Americans into space and continues to win awards as a barnstorming pilot.=20 But he only started making national headlines when he was recently connected to an event that almost certainly never happened: the flying saucer crash at Roswell, N.M., in 1947.=20 Retired Air Force Col. Joseph W. Kittinger Jr., 68, will be inducted into the National Aviation Hall of Fame this evening during black-tie ceremonies at the Dayton Convention Center. His induction recognizes his achievements as a test pilot, balloon pilot, test parachutist, combat fighter pilot, prisoner of war, civilian pilot and barnstormer.=20 "It's the biggest honor I've ever had," Kittinger said Friday. "Just to think I could be considered in the same league with people like Neil Armstrong and Chuck Yeager. I never dreamed I'd be in that type of company."=20 He also said he's delighted to be a central figure in a report the Air Force released recently called Roswell Report: Case Closed. He said he's always "been insulted by the idea that my Air Force would cover something uplike that," and he's glad the record is being set straight.=20 Many UFO enthusiasts believe an extraterrestrial craft landed near Roswell in 1947, and the government recovered the craft as well as its alien occupants.=20 The Air Force said the legend is based in part on the 1959 Roswell-area crash of a high-altitude balloon that carried Kittinger and two other men. One of the men, Dan Fulgham, was injured in the accident, and when witnesses saw his swollen, sunken, yellowed face, the story of a surviving alien was born.=20 "There was always a rumor that there was a red-haired captain sneaking around collecting alien bodies in the desert and telling people to keep quiet about it," Kittinger said. "That red-haired captain was me."=20 Kittinger said the "bodies" were actually crash dummies that were pushed out of high altitude balloons to test methods of surviving high-altitude aircraft evacuations.=20 He said he and other Air Force personnel collected the dummies and any debris that might have fallen with them to keep the area clean and to keep cows from swallowing dummy parts.=20 "It wasn't classified work, but we didn't give people details of what we were doing," he said. "And we were always polite; I never threatened anybody."=20 Balloon tests conducted with crash dummies set the stage for Kittinger's 1960 jump from a balloon at 102,800 feet, a parachute record that still stands.=20 About 750 people are expected to attend the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies that begin with a 6 p.m. reception.=20 In addition to Kittinger, former astronaut and test pilot Thomas P. Stafford will attend and be inducted into the Hall of Fame tonight. Stafford flew on Gemini and Apollo space missions and commanded the Apollo 18 flight that docked with the Soviet Union's Soyuz craft.=20 The two other inductees are deceased.=20 One is Clayton Brukner, who formed the Weaver Aircraft Co. in Lorain with George Weaver in 1920. The company moved to Troy in 1923, and ultimately became the Waco Aircraft Co., the world's largest commercial aircraft builder in the 1930s.=20 The other is Herbert Dargue, who in 1907 piloted the first Army plane to transmit and receive radio messages in flight. After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, Dargue was assigned command of Army units in Hawaii.=20 Also to be honored tonight is the Air Force Association, a 70,000-member nonprofit, civilian organization that conducts programs to increase public understanding of national security issues. The association will receive the Milton Caniff Spirit of Flight Award.=20 The special guest mistress of ceremonies will be actress Maureen O'Hara, who was the first female CEO of a commercial airline.=20 (Copyright 1997)=20 _____via IntellX_____=20 Copyright 1997, Dayton Daily News. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of Dayton Daily News content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Dayton Daily News. Dayton Daily News shall not be liable for errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =BF =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Wanaque Reservoir, New Jersey, January 11, 1966 From: Lloyd Jacobs <lkj@front.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:54:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: Wanaque Reservoir, New Jersey, January 11, 1966 On January 11, 1966, an interesting UFO mass-sighting took place on the Wanaque Reservoir in New Jersey. The mayor, a councilman, policemen, media and residents all witnessed what was describe as a very bright and silent object hovering over the reservoir from 6:20PM until 8:58PM that evening. One policeman who was dispatched to the scene after a flood of reports was Officer Joe Cisco. "I saw a bright light. You tell me. I don't know what it was." "It stayed in the air, there was no noise. I was trying to figure out what it was." (1) Others reported over the radio that the light was burning a hole through the ice which was found later. The current Mayor of Wanaque, Warren Hagstrom was there. "We didn't know what it was," he said. "We thought it was a helicopter, but we didn't hear a motor; it looked like a helicopter with big landing lights on. We got goosebumps all over when we saw where the hole in the ice was. None of us ever said it was a flying saucer, we just saw a bright light." "It was there. I saw it, a brilliant white object and the color kept changing. We watched for a good half hour then it zoomed away," said another councilman.(1) The case is interesting because of air force and government people tripping over each other with copious and contradicting debunking explanations of the light. The following description of official reaction is by John R. King: "Stewart Air Base reported no military aircraft in the area. Later, McGuire Air Base said that the UFO was a weather balloon which was launched from Kennedy International Airport. A weather observer at Patterson, N.J. then said that the UFO might be the planet Venus or an aircraft. Then Stewart Air Base said that an Air Force helicopter with a powerful beacon had been on a mission in the area. McGuire then called the local police and rescinded their balloon explanation. A Major Sherman then called from Stewart Air Base and denied the earlier Stewart explanation of the helicopter. he said that there were no aircraft from Stewart in the area. This call took place after several aircraft were seen over the reservoir. The next day, the Pentagon announced that the UFO was a helicopter with a powerful beacon. Shortly thereafter, Wright-Patterson made the announcement that the UFO could be attributed to the planets Venus and Jupiter and an Air Force Helicopter."(2) Sources (1) Witness quotes from Weird N.J. #8, pg. 46 "Wanaque UFO Sightings Revisited" 1997 (2) King, Major John R. USAF, The UFO Problem: Time For A Reassessment, pg. 57 June, 1968 (thesis) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lloyd Jacobs lkj@front.net ab922@torfree.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Project 1947 - Re: ABC Nightline: Roswell From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:51:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Re: ABC Nightline: Roswell Here's an "oldie" I'd like to comment on. > Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:26:22 -0500 > From: Mark Rodeghier <markrod@XSITE.NET> > Subject: Re: ABC Nightline: Roswell > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > I'd like to add this thought to Jan Aldrich's comments on the Nightline > program. > > Ted Koppel was about as ill-prepared for this segment as is possible, > and began the live interviews with an idiotic question (statement) > about God as evidence for or indication of extraterretrial intelligence > (yes, really). Koppel was as much the problem as Randle or Jeffrey last > night, though I agree with Jan that they could have made much more of > Koppel's claim about all those interested in UFOs being true believers, > etc. > > Mark Rodeghier Though I did not see the program, I feel that Koppels' question as expressed in the first sentence above was not really idotic at all. Perhaps he has a glimmering of the fact (to me it's a fact, anyhow) that the Judeo-Christian God was an extraterrestrial intelligence who for some reason held a long-term interest in the Israelis. The ability of Yahweh or El to ride around in a "pillar of cloud," etc., just like the gods within the mythologies of other cultures, and the existence of the Elohim (the gods), is much too like the UFO phenomenon to dismiss merely because one may not care to juxtapose ufology and religion. A lot has been written about the subject since Van Danikan's first book, the latest being Joe Lewels' _The God Hypothesis_. So if ETs gave rise to the gods, and one particular ET to the concept of a male, humanoid "God" who resides in the heavens, this concept of God can be argued to constitute past evidence for ETI. However, I would not wish to defend Koppel's attitude toward ufology any further than that. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 UFO Insiders: From: curator <logger@california.com> [Erik Beckjord] Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:59:18 -0400 Subject: UFO Insiders: To the UFO Insiders: and all lists. Speaking with Pat Parinello, a very fine fellow..... he reminds me that his implant, taken away by Derrel Sims, and given to Robt. Bigelow's National Insitute for Discovery Science (NIDS) to be analyzed, have not been reported on, at least to him. Nor the other two from Patricia. All this after two years. If this is true, it is more ineptitude in giving all the implants to one lab, if it is a lab, and not holding any back to be held in reserve, or tested by another. FWIW, and others may dispute this (please do,if you so feel) this is too long and the excuses don't hold any longer. Could it be that some "labs" are a means of dumping implants and not getting them checked, and letting them "disappear"? On purpose? Is getting the work done "for free" always the best route? Could this entire operation have been BUNGLED??? After all, what point is there to operating on people, if the results are "lost". I cannot imagine this happening if it were Dr. John Mack or Budd Hopkins. If there is evidence that this is not the case, please advise. One could be wrong. Let's hear it, John Alexander, Sims and Leir. EB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 EL & LITS: Reply to Cohen From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:36:51 -0400 Subject: EL & LITS: Reply to Cohen >Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:47:04 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) Dear Jerry, Dear List, Thank you Jerry for your posting of 27 June - it saves me going back and sorting out our exchanges of a few months ago, and forces me to catch up a bit! You claim that my earlier comments about LITS being the most common type of UFO report are "not exactly accurate" and quote Hynek's classifications and his revised analysis of Blue Book data. So we are dealing with an old review of even older data, but let that stand. So, we have: >BRIEF SUMMARY of HYNEK CLASSIFICATIONS: >Nocturnal lights: Strangely behaving lights in the night sky >Daylight Discs: UFOs sighted in the daytime. >Radar & Radar/visual sightings: Radar sightings and those with >visual support >CE l: Detailed sighting but no observable interaction with > the witness or the environment. >CE ll: UFO is observed interacting with the environment and > frequently, the witness as well. >CE lll: Basically a CE ll case where the UFO occupants make > themselves known. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >REVISED BLUE BOOK STATISTICS: >The following quotes from: Hynek, J. Allen, *The Hynek UFO Report*, >Chapt. 11 "The Air Force Numbers Game", Dell Publishing Co, Inc., >1977 >TABLE 11.5 -- Types of Revised Unknowns >Type Number % of Unknowns >Nocturnal Lights................243................38% >Daylight Discs..................271................42 >Radar-Visual.....................29.................5 >Radar............................10.................2 >CEI..............................46.................7 >CEII...........................33.................5 >CEIII...........................8.................1 >JC: What is extremely surprising here is the great number of >Daylight Disc cases reported. These cases, from Blue Book files >alone, and neglecting the wealth of information from the civilian >UFO organizations around the world, involve many hundreds of >witnesses,the majority of them with Air Force or some other technical >background (sometimes scientific). It is rather surprising that >Nocturnal Lights do not lead the list, as they do in most other > studies... <snip> Okay, let's take all this a step at a time. KNOWING THE LITERATURE First off, I took a look at Hynek's classification system vis-a-vis earth lights in my 1982 book, *Earth Lights* (Turnstone, UK). So I'm not so naive as you seem to think; rather, you haven't read the literature. It *is* difficult to find some of these books and papers in the States, I know, but I have already explained to you why that is so -- US publishers, viewing American ufologists as a market, see an almost total immersion in literalist beliefs (ie. versions of the ETH). From a commercial perspective, therefore, they simply do not publish books on earth lights or most alternative approaches. Even if something alternative, let alone critical, of the gawdalmighty ETH *does* get out, it is slammed as "debunking" by the ETH faithful, and the proponents come under a barrage of attacks, as we see time and again on this list. Wide-ranging discussion is not tolerated, it seems. (The irony is the ETHers act as if those with other views somehow have to disprove the ETH first, when in fact the ETH isn't proven in the first place!) There is simply the *assumption* that the ETH is the right answer, and anything else is incorrect, deliberately misleading, or concocted by nitwits. I have already pointed out to you that mainstream ufology everywhere, and nowhere more strongly than in the USA, lives in a cultural bubble - I have termed it a kind of Salem of the mind. But in an earlier posting, Jerry, you retorted with some irrelevant comment about the fact that you can indeed read - which I was not taking issue with. (Rather, I was trying to explain that if you are inside that conceptual, cultural Salem bubble, it is extraordinarily difficult for you to perceive it.) Anyway, that's the reason earth lights books aren't readily available in the States: like it or not, ufologists in America are censored in their reading by market forces. However, if you are not Joe Bloggs, ufologist-in-the-street, but a *researcher*, as you and so many on this list claim to be, Jerry, then you make the effort to seek out the literature to expand your viewpoint, and to inform yourself of the knowledge base from which some outsider like me comes. Otherwise, you hold your peace. In an earlier posting, you asked if I could scan *Earth Lights Revelation* for you, presumably thinking it was merely an article. Well, it is in fact an 85K-word book, with pretty colour pictures of earth lights and other features, and so you really will have to stir your stumps and go down to a library. If they don't have it (unlikely they will) then you can order it on inter-library loan. They will be able to get it for you. The book's ISBN is 0-7137-2209-6. It was published by Blandford Press, an imprint of Cassell, in London in 1989 and 1990, and distributed by Sterling Publishing in NYC. The book is a little out of date now (as so much has happened in earth lights research in the last 8 years or so), but it nevertheless remains the most comprehensive single volume ever produced on the subject, and should be enough to make you understand that, whether you agree or disagree with my viewpoint, I do not come onto this list just shooting off loose opinions through the back of my head (or any other part of my anatomy). An alternative would be to order the book through your local book- store - I think New Leaf Distributors, Georgia, may still have some copies left. In addition to this, I have a major article updating earth lights research coming out in *Fortean Times* in a month or two (issue 103, I think) - that you *will* be able to get easily at any major store like Barnes & Noble which carries a good range of magazines. Further, towards the end of this year, my book with Peter Brookesmith, *UFOs and Ufology* will be coming out. This is a large format work, with hundreds pictures, in full colour, and critically overviews many aspects of ufology. It includes a chapter on earth lights. It is being published, again, by Blandford in London, but I do not yet know who the US publisher will be -- maybe they won't want to handle it... LITS, DISCS AND ELs Right. So now you have ways and means to better inform yourself on this topic. Interim, let's look at the matter you raise in your latest posting. I'll stand by my claim that most UFO reports relate to lights seen in the sky - I'll expand on that, if you like, to lights seen often but not always, in the night sky. Naturally, the first thing in looking at a UFO report is to ensure that we are not dealing with some kind of confusion between an actual sighting (eg. a set of lights in the night sky) and witness *interpretation* of that sighting (eg. the lights are on a huge, dark craft). Reports can all too often be interpretations. How many "structured craft" fall into this category, I wonder? What people say they see, and more often *think* they see, is not always by any means what they *do* actually see. (As one minor example of this, I have seen people at the Marfa Lights lookout point in Texas run screaming back into their vehicles because they think a Marfa light is rushing towards them, when in fact it is simply a car's headlights flashing momentarily as it crests a particular rise on the Marfa-Presidio road about 20-30 miles away across Mitchell Flat...) On the specific matter of the percentage of LITS in UFO reports, you yourself, Jerry, admit that most studies give the biggest percentage to LITS, and that is certainly what I see in ongoing UFO reports in the UFO small press literature. However, in the particular block of data you have selected, let us see just what we have: Nocturnal Lights................243................38% Daylight Discs..................271................42 Radar-Visual.....................29.................5 Radar............................10.................2 I would argue that, *potentially*, earth lights could account for *any* and all of these four categories, giving us 87 percent. "How can this be?" I hear you you wail. Well, let us deal with the top two first. May I quote Hynek back to you? "It could be that Nocturnal Lights observed in the daytime would appear as Daylight Discs -- we don't know. But *observationally* the distinction is useful." (My emphasis.) So that could mean that LITS, therefore potentially ELs, could theoretically account for 80 percent in the data block you are citing. But there's a more compelling reason than Hynek's old opinion for supposing daylight discs to be potentially the same phenomenon as nocturnal LITS - and, the beauty of it is, *it is not anecdotal*. It revolves around the general assumption that ELs are some form of plasma. This has now been well supported by the 1994 work of You-Suo Zou (of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics in Beijing's Academy of Sciences, and an associate of the Department of Meteo- rology at the University of Utah). He made a close study of the original Project Hessdalen's collected data, and he noted photographs of light traces which revealed a corkscrew-like effect - a 7 Hz pulsation. (A visual example of this should appear in my forthcoming *Fortean Times* piece.) Zou recognised this helical structure as typical of a plasma vortex in motion. From work with laboratory plasmas (Zou cited Leibovich, 1983, and Ma, 1984), this structure is particularly visible in the tails of plasma vortices that are breaking down (as photos in Zou's paper confirmed). Under certain conditions, a plasma vortex can become a kind of solitary wave (soliton)and from the behaviour of some Hessdalen lights as recorded on the project's radar, Zou observed clear evidence of wave energy propagation. (Zou's reference should also appear in my *Fortean Times* article.) Now, let us turn to one of four often-asked critical questions concerning earth lights and UFOs (and here I excerpt directly from the forthcoming *Fortean Times* artcile): Question: What have earth lights to do with "daylight disks"? Answer: If earth lights are a form of plasma, then there is no problem with this, because a plasma seen in daylight does happen to look shiny and metallic, and is likely to have a spherical, ovoid or discoid form. Moreover, there are pitch black objects sometime seen by day (both Erling Strand - director of the new Project Hessdalen - and I have witnessed examples of these ourselves) which seem to be photon-absorbing instead of light-emitting. These bizarre phenomena - which can be round, square or irregular in form - may relate to earth lights in the way one pole of a magnet relates to the other. I have seen one of these appear, move along at treetop height, then disappear instantaneously in full sight, then re-appear a distance further on, then shoot off into the sun glare. RADAR VISUALS Let's look at three other often-asked questions (usually delivered in terms of criticism), the answers to which I think you will see potentially account for the additional 7 percent of other sightings in Hynek's breakdown as well - radar visuals and radar observations. (Again, I excerpt for the forthcoming *Fortean Times* piece): Question: What about the size usually ascribed to flying saucers? Small balls of plasma, seen as lights or even as apparent metallic forms can't account for those, surely? Answer: Some earth lights are reported as being many yards across. A modest example of this was shown in the Quebec case (1988) - the size, height and duration of some of these phenomena were clearly "UFO standard". The lights at Hessdalen ranged up to even larger sizes. And lights seen at night, accounting for a huge percentage of all UFO reports, can look large if bright enough - their size is easy to overestimate. Question: How do earth lights explain radar-visual cases? Answer: It has in fact been proven that plasmas can return radar echoes. Indeed, even plasmas that have too low a temperature to emit visible light can still reflect radar waves just like a metal surface (Zou, 1994). During the first Project Hessdalen, radar echoes were repeatedly obtained from invisible objects hovering near ridges. (During the earlier correspondence on this list, I was challenged to explain how a UFO - a green lightball - could 'ping', as reported by the pilot, when it apparently struck an airliner landing at Mexico City's international airport, if it was "only" an earth light. To which my answer is simple: the aircraft was made of metal - how do you know it was the lightball that pinged? A metallic object like a plane striking a charged object like a plasma might well give off an impact sound. As a footnote to this, I note that on 1 July, they had to close runways in Mexico City airport because of ash spewed out by the volcano Popocatapetl 45 miles away. The volcano grows increasingly more dangerous, and I have already linked the geological/tectonic upheavals occasioned by that to the upsurge of UFO reports in Mexico. I suggest the genuine phenomena observed - and possibly filmed in some cases - are earth light phenomena produced by the extraordinary energies churning in that part of the Earth's crust we call Mexico. [I have identified other purported UFOs on the Mexican videotapes as kites, car headlights descending the steep and solitary hills in the Valley of Mexico, helium balloons, etc. What is singularly lacking are co-ordinated twin video - or stills - shots of the Mexican phenomena, which would allow calculation of distance and size, and a surer idea of motion. Single-shot videocam images remain poor evidence of UFOs.] There is a major disaster pending in that region in my opinion.) Question: What about markings on the ground and damage to foliage associated with some reported UFO landings? Answer: These are quite consistent with localised damage caused by energetic lightballs. Singed foliage, ground burns and grooves have all been associated with ball lightning, for example. (If you don't know some of the references I make in this extract, then the reading advice I've given you will fill those gaps in your knowledge of the matter.) As for Hynek's close encounter categories, Types I and II present no problems as per the above, and both Persinger and I have elsewhere explained how the stranger cases, where genuine and the result of accurate perception, could be accounted for within an energy model rather than an ET model. (Even though Persinger's work is slammed a lot by some ufological critics, some of it is practical work in this particular area of concern and far less anecdotal than anything put forward in support of the ETH.) OTHER CHARACTERISTICS In the *Fortean Times* article, you will see that I go on to describe other intriguing characteristics of earth lights, and why we are now thinking they may be *macro-quantal* events. Some of this information is also non-anecdotal as you will see. IMO, this will be the paradigm to explore in future 'new ufology'. Otherwise, we can debate Roswell until the cows come home. For me, the Roswell biz has become a metaphor for the ETH nose-diving into an intellectual desert! I strongly feel that at some point in the 1950s, we got the paradigm wrong concerning UFOs, and its time we did a serious stock take. If we are not bringing the right questions to the problem, how can we arrive at the correct answers? PHANTOMS OF THE SKIES Now, I do want to make it clear, as I have earlier in a posting to this list, that I *do* think there are other mystery phenomena in the skies that are neither earth lights nor ET craft. True phantoms of the skies. I gave an account of my 1953/4 sighting of a huge dirigible airship, seen in full daylight and in full detail. It appeared and disappeared within minutes, but was co-witnessed. Quite apart from its anomalous appearance/ disappearance, there could not have been such a vehicle flying in Britain at that time. If there are genuine sightings of UFO "craft", and if they are to be viewed as ET vehicles, then what was this airship? An early-model ET spaceship? I prefer to think that what I saw, and what others might see, are not alien space machines, but future/past time slips, or archetypal images somehow made objectively if transiently visible, or... In short, I feel that such aerial phantoms occur for reasons we cannot even begin to formulate as yet. Unfathomable phantoms. I suspect, however, they may come through the same quantum doorway as might earth lights, and I discuss this a bit further in the *Fortean Times* article too, and will hopefully be doing so in future writings. But whatever they are, they are but a tiny fraction of what is dealt with in UFO reports. They are so rare it would be unwise to base the ufological phenomenon on these events, even if we think they are the most important ones. Prattling on for ever about abductions out of New York apartment blocks, alien autopsies, and multiple versions of a New Mexico UFO crash 50 years ago will get us nowhere with them in any case... HYNEK A word about Hynek and ELs. He heard my early case for earth lights in 1983, and found it interesting. Then, in 1985, he visited Hessdalen, and came away convinced that "we have something very important for ufology here". Alas, he was a only a year away from his death. Had he lived, and therefore been acquainted with the recent research, I think he may have been able to persuade at least some strands of American ufology away from its increasing rush into the ETH-and-nothing-but-the-ETH abyss. JERRY'S FAVE RAVE CASES (HAVE MERCY ON MY SOUL...) Finally, Jerry, you say: >Looking forward to your eventual comments on SKYTHING 1960 & >Exeter and how they relate to your theories. You mentioned in >a note to me that you don't have the time to comment on these >specific cases and how your theories relate to them. This is >certainly unfortunate for the reasons mentioned above. >Again, those addresses are: >Exeter 1/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-010.shtml >Exeter 2/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-008.shtml >SKYTHING 1960 is archived at: >http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.2.html Jerry, I do assure you that my lack of time is no empty excuse - I write at least two books a year (just try it, babe), prepare TV shows, write articles and columns, lecture internationally, conduct practical, serious studies on topics like lucid dreaming, and do weeks and even months of fieldwork research concerning earth lights and, wearing my other hat, ancient sites. I commute transatlantically. Yet even so, I do manage to keep abreast of this list, contribute to it occasionally, and, as now, sometimes take a great deal of time answering your postings, Jerry. So do please show a little mercy. As for the Exter thingy, yes <wearily> I'll try to get to read it sometime. But let us say I take it on, let's say I spend time and money researching it in depth (just reading it won't do much good, will it?), let's just say I find an answer that is not supportive of whatever your beliefs in it are (you are clearly touting it as you think it will scupper the earth lights approach), what then? Won't someone else, if not you, come up with another reported case and say, to the effect, "OK, try this one for size, then."? H'mm? And wouldn't that just go on and on? Be honest now. This belief that there is *the* case that will prove the ETH case once and for all if only, if only, if only... (and everyone has their pet candidate, it seems) is not well founded, in my opinion. After 50 years of it not happening, I think the chances are that it won't. For my money, we have to do a lot more *strategic* thinking than we currently are, to complement individual case studies. We spend so much of our time so close to the trees that we spend too little time standing back to look at the state of the forest it is in. And that brings me on to.... LET'S MEND IT -- IT *IS* BROKEN My suggestion is that we have to *re-invent ufology* altogether. We need to swallow hard, accept much of ETHism is what we emotionaly want to be true, and start looking at and thinking about the UFO enigma anew. Whatever you feel, say or believe, Jerry, the last 50 years in ufology have not been a very inspiring overall display of human intellectual achievement (which is not to denigrate some excellent work by a lot of people). ETHers all the time feel they are just on the verge of making the breakthrough, but it never, ever, happens. So they keep tugging themselves on and on, down the years, down the decades. Hey, you know -- it *is* time to leave Salem. Kind regards, Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:08:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:46:39 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > >The key example others here will likely point to also is the very > >high official within the U.N. who was abducted. > > Well, allegedly abducted. But suppose he was, indeed. He - the hapless > P.J. de Cuellar, sometime Secretary General of the UN - also denies it. > Now suppose he is denying it, and that it happened, but that he duly > took the aliens' and Linda's message to his bosom, and is now deeply > concerned about the fate of molluscs, fishes, &c. > Has anyone bothered to find out (a) what was de Cuellar's interest > in environmental matters before November 1989, and (b) whether he has > evinced any special interest or become more active in environmental > issues since? > If the answer to (a) is "low" and to (b) is "No he hasn't", then you > can expect yet another ufological cock ("it's all cock") fight to break out > between differing factions who conclude from this that on the one hand (i) > JPdeC wasn't abducted and on the other (ii) not even the > uncomfortable experience he underwent - being threatened with dead > fish and shouted at by the doughty Linda, etc - persuaded him of the > argument. ... I don't think it's worth anyone's effort to try to find out, because not all abductees become environmentalists, because some people aquire a planetary outlook on their own without the necessity of being abducted, and because the absence of evidence would not be firm evidence of an absence of interest in ecology. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jul 97 12:11:16 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:24:42 -0400 Subject: To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: The Robertson panel report in 1953 (convened in secret by the CIA) and the 1959 study by the Brookings Institute are the only examples (known) of a systematic analysis of the role of government in dealing with the public on the topic of extraterrestrial life. The recommendations generally consisted of cover ups and debunking of UFO's and any evidence NASA might find of ET life. Question: What is NASA's protocol for the discovery of ET life? Here I speak of the artifacts, mentioned in the Brookings Report, which leave no doubt as to the prior or current existence of non-human, sentinent life outside the Earth? Bugs in rocks don't count. Are we still under the "advice" of the '50's committees? Who does the NASA Global Surveyor project director call when he finds "Eat at Xzf's" plastered across the forehead of the Cydonian Countenance? Would the release of the evidence be under NASA's control or is it someone else's decision? You could ask. <G> AFAIK, no one else has. Terry Visit MUFON on CompuServe (go MUFON)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Arizona 'V' Sighting connection? From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:39:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona 'V' Sighting connection? >From: LeeAllen@aol.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:52:22 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: arizona V sighting connection? On 16 July, Lee Allen wrote: ><Snip> i was with a group of friends in a large field behind >e.r. dickson elementary school when someone said "look at that", >pointing upwards. myself, mike breland, jennifer dunn, mary >pritchett & others watched a "v" shaped formation of 7 white >lights move slowly and silently from east to west. i >thought i could detect a low-frequency sound, similar to that >of a small earthquake tremor. i couldn't really discern a definite >shape between or around the lights, but the stars in the background >were distorted - similar to seeing heat waves rising off of a >hot car in a parking lot, or like the "invisibility" special >effect of the alien in the film "predator". the >lights didn't pulse or change color or blink on and off, rather, >they remained constant. i couldn't tell how high up the lights >were, but they appeared to be close (a few thousand feet), for >the lights were clearly visible. we all watched for about 4 >minutes, whereupon the lights disappeared from our line of view >- heading west, towards the airport. ><snip> this particular experience has haunted me ever since, >and now, 8 years later, i find that the same thing was seen in >arizona. where else in the world has this particular type of >"ufo" been sighted? any other additional information >would be greatly appreciated as well. Dear Lee, Something similar happened in DAYLIGHT over Leicestershire, a central English county, in 1957. A formation of white lights was seen by thousands of people flying through the afternoon sky. Many reported the lights as being tadpole-shaped (*just* like Kenneth Arnold's 1947 sighting). The interesting thing was that the formation appeared shortly before an earth tremor that affected Leicestershire and adjoining counties. So perhaps the low frequency sound you heard *was* related to some tectonic strain activity after all. If seen at night, such lights can easily be interpreted as being lights on a dark object. Best wishes, Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 8 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:00:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 8 This is a test message. It has no meaning. Not sent to list, archive only. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: Practice Page for Comments and Links
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 9 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:04:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 9 This is a test message. It has no meaning. Not sent to list, archive only. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: www.ufomind.com/org/bad/link/ [Url Error]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Re: UFO UpDate: To Any NASA From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:19:36 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:46:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: UFO UpDate: To Any NASA >Date: 22 Jul 97 12:11:16 EDT >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: NASA Life Protocol >To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: >The Robertson panel report in 1953 (convened in secret by the CIA) and >the 1959 study by the Brookings Institute are the only examples >(known) of a systematic analysis of the role of government in dealing >with the public on the topic of extraterrestrial life. The >recommendations generally consisted of cover ups and debunking of >UFO's and any evidence NASA might find of ET life. >Question: What is NASA's protocol for the discovery of ET life? [snip] >Here I speak of the artifacts, mentioned in the Brookings Report, which >leave no doubt as to the prior or current existence of non-human, >sentinent life outside the Earth? Bugs in rocks don't count. Terry, I am not a NASA employee. But a NASA spokeswoman answered this question on CNN's Q and A recently. The most appropriate thing to do for a project coordinator is to call NASA director Dan Goldin. Goldin in turn would call the president. The reports from the Brookings Instution and the Robertson panel are old hat and irrelevant. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: stenger@spindle.net (stenger@spindle.net) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:16:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:48:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:07:51 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:40 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>Hi Bob, hi All, >Hi Bob, Hi Errol Hi All >>So, here goes. >>Mr Shell would you please tell us if you have had an opportunity to inspect >>a piece of the original AA film, or if it is only video that you have >>worked with? >Being that I am one of the "few"? who believe that the AA film could >well be genuine, boy do I wish that this is so, I would also like to add >Please Bob could you tell us all to finally finish this debate >Did you inspect the actual film footage or video of the film footage? Dear Sean, Errol, & UFO UpDates readers, The "few"? believers to whom Sean refers includes me. Call it a gut feeling or feminine intuition, but I think it very well could be genuine. I was born in 1940 and was constantly treated to my Uncle Dale's home movies. They looked a lot like the AA film - without the alien. Uncle Dale was a pilot in WW2, won the Distinguished Service Cross, and, I believe began his interest in filming while in the Navy. Hmmmm..... Anyway, while I do believe that the film is of an alien autopsy, I do not believe that it is necessarily the Roswell alien(s). From Santilli's and the Cameraman's own statements I deduce that the dates just don't quite match. I think that crash reports over the years would cause anyone to conclude that many autopsies of various species of aliens have been conducted by ours and other governments in the world. It is unfortunate that Bob Shell and other experts have not been permitted to handle pieces of the actual film. Surely Mr. Santilli realizes how suspicious it looks when he refuses to allow testing. If somebody were to file a civil suit against him, he'd have to turn over some film in the discovery process. Hmmmmm, again. Keep all eyes to the skies. Best regards, Sharolyn Stenger Arlington, Texas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Bob Shell's Mailbox From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:50:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:50:11 -0400 Subject: Bob Shell's Mailbox Please hold posts for Bob Shell - his mailbox is full and his server is bouncing mail ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 10 From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:40:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:35:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message-Ignore Me 10 This is a test message. It has no meaning. Not sent to list, archive only. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: www.ufomind.com/really/bad/link/ [Url Error]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Kent Jeffrey, nice guy From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jermoe Clark] Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:23:15 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:06:36 -0400 Subject: Kent Jeffrey, nice guy Hi, everybody, Let me interject a note of reality into the more surrealistic discussions concerning Kent Jeffrey. First, let me say I remain resolutely skeptical of Roswell balloonacy, and my views of what happened in New Mexico in July 1947 are closer to Kevin Randle's than to Jeffrey's. Nothing I have heard or read so far persuades me that the official version of the truth is any closer to the actual truth than official versions typically are. Second, I don't know, nor have I ever communicated with, Jeffrey. Third, I would like to go on to state that I thought Jeffrey's MUFON piece was a model of how the Roswell debate ought to be conducted: with civility, reasonableness, respect, and rejection of ad hominem discourse. I was especially impressed with Jeffrey's treatment of Jesse Marcel, Sr., whom other Roswell critics (you know who you are) have chosen -- with unfairness so gross that it seems to me to border on invention -- to slander. It has become a blood sport in some ufological quarters to trash witnesses and informants, and Jeffrey has refused to play that game. God bless him for that. To those of us on the outside, the Roswell debate has become ever more unendurable. It isn't enough to say that your adversary is wrong; it's now necessary to savage his character, IQ, and ability to discern the difference between a hole in the ground and a certain hole in his anatomical structure. If he thinks an ET craft may have crashed, he must be a pop-eyed true believer who can't think his way out of a paper bag; if he thinks there may be a conventional explanation, he's a debunker who's cashing his CIA check even as we type. It is no longer possible to concede what ought to be the obvious: that in a case with all the investigative difficulties a Roswell poses, honorable men and women are bound to disagree. Is it just barely possible that Jeffrey honestly changed his mind about Roswell and had the integrity to concede as much? Even if we disagree, shouldn't we admire someone who is willing to acknowledge in a public forum that (at least from his point of view) he may have been wrong in his first reading of an abundance of often ambiguous, conflicting testimony and evidence? As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Jeffrey can be fairly accused of is being a nice guy. And what worse thing can you say about somebody in ufology's current climate? Sadly, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 FOX TV UFO Special July 28 From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:45:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:08:38 -0400 Subject: FOX TV UFO Special July 28 Received from "alt.alien.visitors" July 22 at 14.19 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours): UFOS: THE BEST EVEIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE A look at the study of UFOs since the purported Roswell incident of 1947. NASA officials comment on UFO activity over the years. The TV Guide says, "Believe if you don't, you will after tonight. Have aliens ever visited the earth? Tonight, decide for yourself. Fox TV UFO Special, July 28, 1997, 8:00 pm, Eastern and Pacific.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:14:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:12:43 -0400 Subject: Re: To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life > Date: 22 Jul 97 12:11:16 EDT > From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: NASA Life Protocol > To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: > The Robertson panel report in 1953 (convened in secret by the CIA) and > the 1959 study by the Brookings Institute are the only examples > (known) of a systematic analysis of the role of government in dealing > with the public on the topic of extraterrestrial life. The > recommendations generally consisted of cover ups and debunking of > UFO's and any evidence NASA might find of ET life. > Question: What is NASA's protocol for the discovery of ET life? <snip> If you are interested in contingency planning on the issue of ET contact, you might wish to followup a lead generated by Gerald K. Haines who wrote in the CIAs on report on the "CIAs Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 published by the Study for the Center of Intelligence Vol 1. No. 1, 1997 the following in his footnote #90 (I never said they put the information in obvious places): "The CIA reportedly is also a member of an Incident Response Team to investigate UFO landings, if one should occur. This team never met. The lack of solid CIA documentation on Agency UFO-related activities in the 1980s leaves the entire issue somewhat murky for this period." There may be a paper trail or maybe they went verbal. "This team never met". Yes we are to guilibly believe that they introduce themselves to each other at the landing site after they hail cabs in the rush hour to get to the White House lawn. Ha... Ha.. Ha. There has or had to be a watch officer for this response team. Allocations of resources, transport, etc. Think about it. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 lfred's Odd Ode #158 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:44:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:17:11 -0400 Subject: lfred's Odd Ode #158 Apology to MW #158 (For July 22, 1997) I broke down and got popcorn at the movie last night. I don't often, usually, as the fat used ain't right. The price was the same, butter with or without. . . It's a cheat they were pulling, I'm hopin' to shout! So casually wrote off as "counting the bags." To counter employee's that thieve like rogue stags. What's the businessman other to do=20 But put all the overcharge so squarely on you? This is the stuff that the watchers from space Can find so repellent -- this charmless disgrace. This is what covers their forms in the shadows; This so corrosive to forests, and meadows. The fat is the worst that the body imbibes It's worse on the body than they'd ever describe The money made here is beyond astronomical 'Cause it stays on shelves longer -- they're not being comical! Forget the disease, and the strokes - diabetes! Forget that it cheapens your spirit completely! Forget that the sawbones is sharpening his knives; Forget that the loss of mobility means life! But this _foul_ toxic waste is in all of your foods! And the facts are all in, so upon them please brood. There is evidence ample they soft sell the truth! Remember tobacco. . .so once high ALOOF! And if humans fuck EACH OTHER over for percentage! And the quality of human must DEPEND on fateful lineage?=20 Then our watchers amble further into dark un-empty night. They're blinking eyes rolled skyward as we fight our empty fight. Lehmberg@snowhill.com . . .and meaningless, unsatisfying, betraying -- lost, alone, and invalid we fight an empty fight. What could be emptier than a sports agent, whorishly short term, furtively feeding from the crumbs of a rich mans plate -- twice being a hero in our movie and TV stuff this last year. A sports agent? . . .sports . . .agent. . . ? I don't get it Mr. Cruise. It must be a hydrogenated vegetable oil kind of thing. --=20 Collected Work and Original Art --=20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/Lehmberg.html "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out how we're all being cheated. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:24:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:37:53 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Question for Kevin Randle >Kevin, >Last year at MUFON's conference in North Carolina you gave a talk about >considering the role that pop culture might play in abduction stories. >Most people in the audience vehemently disagreed with your remarks by >choosing to hear your message as All abductions are the result of pop >culture. That was not the message that I heard you deliver and thought your >talk was something investigators must take into account. >After having this discussion with a number of people, some who were at the >MUFON Conference, many still argue with me over what you said. This brings me >to my rather point blank question: Is it your belief that all abduction >stories are the result of pop culture? Not at all. I was merely suggesting that some abduction reports might have been inspired by pop culture. Budd Hopkins said that there were no traditional sci-fi gods or demons to explain alien abduction. I said that such wasn't the case. Science fiction is loaded with the idea of alien abduction beginning in 1908. We couldn't refuse to look at this aspect because it is something that we don't like to hear. In fact, I showed part of a movie, Killers in Space in which a full blown abduction including underground bases big eyed aliens, and even a regression (chemical) were shown. My point missed by so many was that these things do exist and we must do better than to offer cute phrases about their non-existence. But this does not mean that all, or many, or even a few of the abductions have been influenced by pop culture, only that it is something we must explore. >If you have any information about specific abduction cases being (in your >opinion) the result of pop culture, would you cite them here please. I think that we can see the influences in the Hill abduction. Betty Hill originally described big-nosed aliens and now she doesn't. Barney Hill's description of the aliens could be a result of THE BELLERO SHIELD on THE OUTER LIMITS, though I think it more likely the result of a TWILIGHT ZONE episode called HOCUS POCUS AND FRISBY in which Andy Devine is kidnapped by gray faced, black eyed aliens. Remember, according to Betty Hill herself, when Barney started to get frightened, she asked, "Have you been watching the Twilight Zone again." And no, this does not mean that the Hill abduction is the result of pop culture, only that it could be. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Lie Detection in UFO Controversies From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:20:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:41:40 -0400 Subject: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies Lie Detection in UFO Controversies =A91997 Geoff Price Grappling with fraud and deception is par for the course in the context of UFO claims, and as a result, "lie detector" tests are frequently demanded of UFO claimants, and their results, positive or negative, brandished as evidence. Some cases in particular have put lie detection in the spotlight, notably the Travis Walton abduction case of 1975, as well as the more recent (and divisive) case of Ed Walters and his Gulf Breeze photographs. Kevin Randle, in his latest book the Randle Report, rules both cases a hoax, pointedly citing the original, failed polygraph test of Travis Walton (administered by John McCarthy, hereafter "the McCarthy test".) Gulf Breeze detractors, such as Carol and Rex Salisberry, have cited the successful voice stress analysis test conducted on a taped deposition given by Tommy Smith (who says he observed the fabrication of photographs by Walters). Both of these examples represent somewhat irresponsible use of "lie detection" evidence, illustrating some of the pitfalls and common confusion that surrounds the topic. Does It Work at All? Is there any validity in lie detection at all? In the domain of applied psychology, lie detection is referred to as the psychophysical detection of deception (PDD). The most common PDD technique is the polygraph, a general term describing tests which measure and correlate a variety of physiological activities (sweat and gland, cardiovascular, respiratory activity) using analog ("conventional") or computerized instruments. The polygraph has always been a controversial topic, and much of the public -- and many introductory textbooks in psychology courses -- treat the matter with considerable skepticism. However, the more strident criticisms of the polygraph were spurred by inadequate earlier techniques, long since soundly rejected by academic scrutiny. Contemporary studies have found significant validity in the most common of current techniques, the "Control Question Test" (CQT). A recent article in the Journal of Credibility Assessment and Witness Psychology reviews the empirical and review literature concerning CQT, and concludes that, "when the ecologically valid laboratory studies and the high quality field studies are considered, both indicate high validity for the CQT."[1] The Fifth Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals, in its decision in the U.S. vs Posado in 1995, overturning "per se" exclusion of polygraph evidence, gave the following overview of the state of the evidence for polygraph: "There can be no doubt that tremendous advances have been made in polygraph instrumentation and technique in the years since Frye. The test at issue in Frye measured only changes in the subject's systolic blood pressure in response to test questions. ... Modern instrumentation detects changes in the subject's blood pressure, pulse, thoracic and abdominal respiration, and galvanic skin response. Current research indicates that, when given under controlled conditions, the polygraph technique accurately predicts truth or deception between seventy and ninety percent of the time. Remaining controversy about test accuracy is almost unanimously attributed to variations in the integrity of the testing environment and the qualifications of the examiner. ... Further, there is good indication that polygraph technique and the requirements for professional polygraphists are becoming progressively more standardized. In addition, polygraph technique has been and continues to be subjected to extensive study and publication. Finally, polygraph is now so widely used by employers and government agencies alike." And according to another court review: "The predominant format employed in the field of polygraphy is the 'control question' technique ... There is no dispute in this case that the 'probable lie' version of the control question technique, when properly employed, is a highly accurate method for detecting deception and possesses the type of scientific validity that satisfies the reliability prong of Rule 702. Through numerous field and laboratory studies, researchers have determined that polygraph examinations using this technique produce results that have an accuracy rate of approximately ninety percent. ... "The most thorough treatment of polygraph admissibility issues can be found in two district court opinions from Arizona and New Mexico [Galbreth and Crumby] ... both courts found that polygraph theory and technique had been tested by the scientific method and repeatedly validated in field and laboratory studies, subjected to stringent peer review and extensive publication, shown to have a remarkably low error rate when properly applied by a skilled polygrapher, enjoyed substantial acceptance within the scientific community, and was widely used within government and industry." In short, there is sufficient evidence of the validity of polygraph testing to justify its use as one form of supporting evidence in the evaluation of UFO and other "extraordinary" claims, particularly in multiple witness situations. However, the responsible use of lie detection evidence requires a clear understanding of which kinds of tests are well-grounded in scientific validity and which are not. Walton and the McCarthy Test A total of thirteen polygraph examinations have been administered in conjunction with the Travis Walton case of 1975, a prodigious case as far as the use of polygraph evidence is concerned. A total of nine individuals were tested, including the seven primary participants and Walton's mother and brother. Eleven of the tests were passed, one was inconclusive, and one, the McCarthy test, was failed -- by the primary actor Walton. Initially, the six alleged witnesses to the close encounter (during which Walton was zapped by a "blue light" from a close, hovering "smooth" and "reflective" disc-shaped object) were subjected to polygraph tests. These were CQT examinations administered by Cy Gilson of the Arizona Department of Public Safety (state police), primarily addressing the possibility of some non-extraordinary foul play at work, but pointedly questioning the witnesses regarding the veracity of the reported UFO event. Five of the six passed, with one inconclusive result. Since an "inconclusive" reading is not the same as a "deceptive" reading (it is simply an unsuccessful test, to be disregarded) the results provided strong evidence of a real event. Next, a private investigator named John McCarthy was hired to test Walton relatively soon after his reappearance. McCarthy ruled Walton deceptive, and the test results were regrettably suppressed by the ufological group APRO and the National Enquirer. A follow-up examination by George Pfeifer ruled Walton truthful. Twenty years later, in 1993, Cy Gilson retested key participants Travis Walton, (foreman and Walton friend) Mike Rogers, and Allen Dalis (the original "inconclusive" result), using a state-of-the-art computer-scored CQT methodology. All three passed. The probabilistic significance of the unanimous passing of CQT examinations by all six witnesses is not to be taken lightly. Since they are independent tests, the odds of gross hoax (all participants lying about the UFO encounter) is less than one-tenth of a percent using the conservative figure of 70% for test accuracy, and on the order of one in ten million using the 90% figure. In short, quite strong evidence that some kind of startling event or elaborate hoax took place. Nonetheless, the PDD results for the primary actor Walton were contradictory ("dueling" results). In the Randle Report, Kevin Randle reviews this contradiction and settles in favor of the McCarthy test. He cites the opinion of a polygraph examiner who believes that Walton could have become comfortable with his fraud in the retelling, and thus passed the later tests in 1993. He then emphasizes the 1975 McCarthy test, stating that, given its proximity to the original event, this test "speaks volumes" about Walton's truthfulness. Unfortunately, Randle never raises the issue of polygraph methodology. John McCarthy in 1975 was still using what is called the "Relevant/Irrelevant" (RI) examination format. Test transcripts were forwarded by Allan Hendry of CUFOS to Dr. David Raskin, a published scholar and recognized authority on the polygraph, who described the technique as "unacceptable" and "thirty years out of date".[2] A cursory examination of the literature readily confirms the degree to which the RI technique is held in low regard. The aforementioned psychology article on polygraphy states brusquely, "Of the three techniques discussed in this paper, there seems to be general agreement in the scientific literature that the Relevant-Irrelevant Test lacks validity". Crucial is the issue of why, specifically, RI tests have been found to be unreliable. The same court review that praises CQT as "a highly accurate method for detecting deception" explains that: "The relevant/irrelevant technique has been determined by researchers to produce an unacceptably high number of 'false positive' errors (because even an innocent subject will recognize the significance of the relevant question and may react to it) and has generally been discarded in favor of other techniques that have been shown to have a higher degree of reliability." Dr. Charles Honts, another heavily published scholar of PDD techniques, and an authority who has testified as an expert witness in key court cases involving polygraph evidence, concurs that "the relevant/irrelevant technique has been conclusively shown to be an invalid technique in published scientific research."[3] Specifically, "the relevant/irrelevant technique is known to produce a large number (80+%) of false positive errors (the truthful fail the test). A failed RI test should be given no weight for any purpose." In other words, under the right conditions, you would want to bet -- and bet heavily -- that a truthful respondent will fail a RI polygraph exam. In this context, the other issues raised by critics of the McCarthy test -- Walton's psychological distress, McCarthy's alleged hostility -- simply establish that we have exceptionally good reasons to discount the results. Randle's comment that the McCarthy test "speaks volumes" about the veracity of the case is in striking contrast to Honts' comment that a "failed RI test should be given no weight for any purpose", and is rendered more disappointing still by the fact that even a cursory review of the literature would have prevented it. The 1993 Gilson Tests With the McCarthy test disregarded, we're left with the remaining successful tests, most notably the 1993 CQT exams of the key players by Gilson. Critics have floated a number of reasons as to why these tests should (also) be considered suspect. I asked Charles Honts to comment specifically on Randle's suggestion that the tale gets easier in the retelling. He replied, "I know of no scientific evidence that suggests that the passage of time, per se, would affect the validity of the polygraph. In fact the available research fails to show such effects, but no study has looked at time intervals in terms of years." "I think the suggestion that telling a story over and over would make you comfortable with the story and enable you to pass the test is most unlikely." Others have suggested, based on McCarthy's feelings in 1975 that Walton was trying to consciously "distort" his breathing to beat the test, that Walton has trained himself in "countermeasures" to beat polygraph examinations. To this possibility, Honts replies, "Possible, but very unlikely. Research has shown that under the proper conditions there are techniques that people can learn to enable some of them to beat comparison question test. However, this research also shows two additional things: Sophisticated training is necessary for the countermeasures to work, and the computer analysis that Gilson used is very hard to beat, much harder than the numerical scoring used by polygraph examiners. In fact the CAPS/CPS computer scoring is THE BEST COUNTER-COUNTERMEASURE known." (emphasis original) Honts provides additional background on the examiner and technique employed in the tests in question: "The computer analysis program that Gilson used has been the topic of peer-reviewed scientific publication and has been shown to be valid see, Kircher and Raskin (1988) J Applied Psychology." "I have known Cy Gilson for about 14 or 15 years. He was a respected police officer and polygraph examiner while he worked for the State of Arizona. I have seen his polygraph work in other cases and it has been of high quality. My impression of Cy Gilson is that he is not give to wild flights of fancy. I know of nothing that would suggest to me that he is anything but an honorable and honest man." Ultimately, even ascertaining Walton's truthfulness will never completely solve the mystery of his five-day disappearance, since it's possible that he was the subject of an entirely sophisticated kidnapping/hoax. Nevertheless, the eyewitness testimony, endorsed by rigorous polygraph cross-examination, provides strong evidence that the events have been faithfully reported by the relevant parties. Kevin Randle does provide some other (new) evidence of hoax in the case, casually dropping in his conclusion that some unnamed members of Walton's family have confided to some unnamed investigators that the whole business was indeed a hoax planned and executed by Walton. Well... polygraph evidence may not be as "hard" as a proverbial flying saucer on ice, but it is at least more solid than this sort of curious hearsay, and it seems fair to request substantiation of such rumors before weighing them seriously. Gulf Breeze, Ed Walters, and Tommy Smith Another controversial case which features "dueling" PDD evidence is the "Gulf Breeze" case of Ed Walters and his sensational UFO photographs and videos. One of the many explosively controversial moments in the case came with the testimony of Tommy Smith, a young man who claimed in a taped deposition that he was with Ed Walters on an occasion when Walters hoaxed (fabricated) a UFO photograph. Investigators applied a voice stress analysis (VSA) test to the taped testimony, which was passed. A VSA test is a (usually computerized) mechanical analysis of the human voice to determine truthfulness. It differs from polygraph tests in that it monitors only voice patterns. In concept, as advertised by the companies that sell it, VSA promises a powerful tool for evaluating claims, since it can be conveniently used on any recorded testimony at the leisure of investigators. Lined up against Smith's VSA success is an also successful but controlled VSA test conducted on testimony by Ed Walters, in which he denies perpetrating a hoax. A controlled test compares critical testimony against control testimony -- a normal sample of the subject's voice patterns (apparently unavailable in the Smith case.) Do we prefer the Walters VSA test on the grounds that it was controlled? Ultimately, the issue of controlled versus uncontrolled VSA tests is hard to settle, because there simply is no compelling body of evidence supporting VSA in any form. The Department of Defense Polygraph Institute conducted an extensive inquiry into VSA tests, and eventually made the following statement in September of last year (1996): "To date, we have found no credible evidence in information furnished by the manufacturers, the scientific literature, or in our own research, that voice stress analysis is an effective investigative tool for determining deception. ... The preponderance of evidence indicates the polygraph is far more accurate at detecting deception than is voice stress analysis." Charles Honts concurs: "For once, I am in total agreement with DODPI! There is NO published evidence to support the validity of VSA." This is in sharp contrast to the many lab and field studies that have been conducted in the study of the polygraph. Which suggests that, until appropriate validation is presented, VSA claims should be disregarded entirely, particularly in light of the uncritical citing of very high accuracy rates provided by manufacturers (eg 95% accuracy according to some touting Smith's testimony.) Judging from the available information, the elimination of VSA claims leaves only the passed polygraph test administered to Walters by Harvey McLaughlin in Feburary, 1988 as far as PDD evidence goes. Reports seem to indicate that this test was competently administered, although details are scarce. Some critics have argued that Ed Walters is (or could be) a sociopath, and would therefore be able to beat polygraph tests at will. This is another "common sense" objection that doesn't have much support in published research. Certainly in the case of psychopathology, the data is particularly clear in that psychopaths have no special ability to fool the polygraph.[4] Notes [1] From the Journal of Credibility Assessment and Witness Psychology, 1997, Vol. 1, No. 1, 9-32, hosted by the Department of Psychology of Boise State University, "Truth or Just Bias: The Treatment of Psychophysiological Detection of Deception in Introductory Psychology Textbooks", by Mary K. Devitt, Oklahoma State University, Charles R. Honts, Boise State University, and Lynelle Vondergeest, University of North Dakota. An online version is available at: http://truth.idbsu.edu/jcaawp/9602/9602.html A fuller excerpt: "The most commonly used test in the field is the Control Question Test. We will focus most of our analysis on validity studies of the CQT. ... A recent review (Honts & Quick, 1995), found four field studies of the CQT (Honts, 1994b, now in press; Honts, & Raskin, 1988; Iacono & Patrick, 1991; and Raskin, Kircher, Honts, & Horowitz, 1988) and two of the CKT (Elaad, 1990; Elaad, Ginton, & Jungman, 1992) that were able to meet the stringent requirements for a useful field study described above. Three of the field studies (Honts, 1994; Honts & Raskin, 1988; Raskin et. al., 1988) produced accuracy rates above 90%. The independent evaluators in the third study (Iacono & Patrick, 1991) produced a high false positive rate, although the accuracy rate of the original examiners exceeded 90%. [...] "Laboratory Studies Concerning Forensic Settings. A recent meta-analysis of 15 laboratory studies (Kircher, Horowitz, & Raskin, 1988) of the Control Question Test indicated a wide range of validity estimates. One study found near chance results, while six of the studies produced moderate validity estimates, and eight of the studies report validity coefficients of 0.7 or better. In four of the studies, the validity coefficients exceeded 0.8. The Kircher et al. meta-analysis noted that these laboratory studies differed widely in their ecological validity. Some studies used mock crimes and procedures that closely modeled field conditions while other studies were very artificial and used unrealistic procedures. Moreover, the Kircher et al., meta-analysis indicated that those laboratory studies that most closely modeled field conditions produced the highest accuracy rates. [...] "Although there is controversy, the empirical and review literature concerning PDD suggests the following conclusions: There is little support for the Relevant-Irrelevant Test, but this test is in frequent use only in employment settings. The laboratory and field data concerning the Control Question Test are mixed. However, when the ecologically valid laboratory studies and the high quality field studies are considered, both indicate high validity for the CQT." [end quote] [2] Dr. Raskin has testified as an expert witness on polygraph in influential court cases and before Congress. Some of his published studies are mentioned in the citation above. [3] A selection of Dr. Honts' professional publications and reports is available online: http://truth.idbsu.edu/honts/cv2.html In terms of the specific comment here re:RI tests, Honts advises the reader to see the paper by Horowitz et al in the first issue of the 1997 vol of the journal PSYCHOPHYSIOLOGY, a "peer-reviewed scientific journal". [4] See [1]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 22 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:46:06 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:48:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:40 -0500 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>>Hi Bob, hi All, >>Hi Bob, Hi Errol Hi All >>>So, here goes. >The "few"? believers to whom Sean refers includes me. Call >it a gut feeling or feminine intuition, but I think it very >well could be genuine. I was born in 1940 and was constantly >treated to my Uncle Dale's home movies. They looked a lot >like the AA film - without the alien. But THAT is a very good part of WHY the film doesn't look genuine. It LOOKS amateurish, and a Military camareman, on an official shoot, ESPECIALLY on something as important as the autopsy of an alien, would NOT look like that. Hell, raw footage of the invasions of Pacific islands in WWII looked better! And there are SO many other flaws. To focus ONLY on the things that COULD prove that it's real, and ignore the others that could prove a fraud is the worst thing a SERIOUS investigator can do. Even an amateur should know better.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Parachutist Of 'Dummy' Report Speaks Out From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> [David Furlotte] Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:04:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:56:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Parachutist Of 'Dummy' Report Speaks Out >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 05:29:46 +0200 >Subject: Parachutist Of 'Dummy' Report Speaks Out >Inductee Recalls Record Jumps, Roswell Rumors >Dayton Daily News >Sat, Jul 19 1997 Okay, so here we go again. It's amazing how the Air Force keeps adjusting the story and coming up with different "Witnesses" to verify an event that never happened. But it seems for some unGodly reason they seem to get the records mixed up. <snip> >He also said he's delighted to be a central figure in a report the Air >Force released recently called Roswell Report: Case Closed. He said >he's always "been insulted by the idea that my Air Force would cover >something uplike that," and he's glad the record is being set straight. > >Many UFO enthusiasts believe an extraterrestrial craft landed near >Roswell in 1947, and the government recovered the craft as well as its >alien occupants. >The Air Force said the legend is based in part on the 1959 Roswell-area >crash of a high-altitude balloon that carried Kittinger and two other >men. One of the men, Dan Fulgham, was injured in the accident, and when >witnesses saw his swollen, sunken, yellowed face, the story of a >surviving alien was born. A twelve year discrepancy? Even accounting for the people getting older and having failing memories, I'm SURE that they would be able to tell you whether it was '47 or '59 that they saw the alien bodies. As for Dan's face being YELLOWED in the accident. Wasn't it a bluish grey colour that our beloved Aliens were supposed to be? Or has the yellow colour come about as a need to match the Japanese FUGO balloon theory? Also, can someone explain to me how a human face can be swollen AND sunken at the same time? >"There was always a rumor that there was a red-haired captain sneaking >around collecting alien bodies in the desert and telling people to keep >quiet about it," Kittinger said. "That red-haired captain was me." >Kittinger said the "bodies" were actually crash dummies that were >pushed out of high altitude balloons to test methods of surviving >high-altitude aircraft evacuations. >He said he and other Air Force personnel collected the dummies and any >debris that might have fallen with them to keep the area clean and to >keep cows from swallowing dummy parts. A red-haired captain collecting Alien bodies? "Errr, someone want to give "Red" a call and let him know that we've got another one and he should get out there and get the bodies." Collecting the "dummies" to keep the area clean and keep cows from swallowing the parts? How about collecting the dummies to determine what results the impact had on them? That would be a little more believable. Now were these "Japanese" dummies that were pushed out of the infamous FUGO balloons or were they good old American-made dummies pushed out of Weather or Mogul balloons? The bottom line in all of this still remains. What motive could the people who've been spreading the "Alien" craft and bodies story possibly have to keep it going all this time? I keep trying to come up with one but the only one that makes any sense to date is that it really happened. It remains that we have one of two possibilities: People in and around Roswell, N.M., combined with men and officers of the 509th Air bombardment group got together one day and "conspired" to create a WILD and RIDICULOUS story about a crashed Alien Craft with bodies et al. OR The crash took place and the United States Air Force working on behalf of it's goverment recovered an Alien Craft and bodes from same and "conspired" to keep the entire event quiet. Which one do YOU believe? 'nuff said, Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 UFO ROUNDUP Article List From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:30:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:53:05 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Article List New addition to the UFOINFO web site. The UFO Roundup section of my site now has a list of all articles to have appeared in the bulletins sorted by country and issue. This will hopefully assist those looking for reports from a specific country. The page can be accessed via the main Contents page, the UFO Roundup page, or by going directly to: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/articles.shtml John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@generation.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:07:44 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:53:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:12:28 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? >JC: Can anyone solve the following mystery? > >Another month goes by and no reply from "Les Sceptiques du >Quebec." (The total is now 5 months, but... who's counting?) The >total silence is almost deafening.... But perhaps I missed a reply. ... >JC 7/21/97: Pierre-Normand, does your silence mean your group >accepts the majority of the researched information in the Oberg/Cooper >rebuttals? We don't have to do this all at once. We can take one essay >at a time. Hi Jerry, You're wasting your time. Our group has been dealing with=20 "Les Sceptiques du Quebec Inc" for some years now and has always=20 been disappointed. They NEVER investigate anything interesting. They'll waste=20 time debunking a =ABcall-up astrology line=BB but will not try to=20 understand what had happened to M. X (who found a missing boy (all=20 documented by police reports)), what was seen over the Bonneaventure=20 Hotel (by very many witnesses, including journalists and policemen=20 (there is an excellent report on this case)), etc. They DON'T know of the works of Montrealers like Bernard Grad=20 (who has studied psychic powers in a university laboratory), Jean=20 Rock Laurence (who has made an extensive psychiatric study of=20 abductees), Louis Belanger (who has investigated a great number of=20 paranormal phenomenon). All of these are professor at universities=20 and are all very serious. They BELIEVE in the all mighty Science, omnipotent and=20 omniscient. What they were thought is what is real. Stop wasting your time. Bye, Jacques Poulet, Directeur SOS OVNI Qu=E9bec Case Postale 143 St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Qc CANADA J3B 6Z1 T=E9l:(514)536-0140 Fax:(514)536-0141 HTTP://www.cam.org/~martinc/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Somethings new, somethings old From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:28:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:09:41 -0400 Subject: Somethings new, somethings old Just received this Hello from Amazon.com Books! As you requested, we are notifying you of new books matching the following criteria: subjects include "UFOs" The new books are listed at the end of this message. If you're interested in any of these books, you can order them online at http://www.amazon.com/ . Your most humble automated search agent, Eyes Amazon.com Books http://www.amazon.com/ P.S. We're pleased to announce that our Editors mailings have begun. Every couple weeks, we'll send you an e-mail message reviewing books, recently published to old classics, that our Editors think are outstanding. If you'd like to sign up, visit us at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/editors/editors-signup.html ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Conspiracy of Silence" by Kevin D. Randle List: $12.50 -- Our Price: $10.00 -- You Save: $2.50 (20%) Subjects: Unidentified flying objects; Conspiracies; United States; UFOs; NEW AGE/PARAPSYCHOLOGY Publisher: Avon Books (Pap Trd) Binding: Paperback Expected publication date: July 1, 1997 ISBN: 0380726912 URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380726912 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Project Blue Book Exposed" by Kevin D. Randle, Kevin Randel List: $22.95 -- Our Price: $16.07 -- You Save: $6.88 (30%) Subjects: Unidentified flying objects; Sightings and encounters; United States; Conspiracies; UFOs; NEW AGE/PARAPSYCHOLOGY Publisher: Marlowe & Company Binding: Hardcover Expected publication date: July 1, 1997 ISBN: 1569247463 URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247463 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Cosmic Voyage : The Scientific Discovery of Extraterrestrials Visiting Earth" by Courtney Brown, Courtney Brown Ph. D. List: $17.95 -- Our Price: $12.57 -- You Save: $5.38 (30%) Subjects: Audio Adult: Other; CAS-AUDIO-NON FICTION; UFOs Publisher: Ten Speed Pr Audio Cassette Edition Binding: Audio Cassette Expected publication date: July 1, 1997 ISBN: 1574530976 URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1574530976 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Day After Roswell" by Philip J. Corso, William J. Birnes List: $24.00 -- Our Price: $16.80 -- You Save: $7.20 (30%) Subjects: Unidentified flying objects; Sightings and encounters; New Mexico; Roswell; UFOs; NEW AGE/PARAPSYCHOLOGY Publisher: Pocket Books Binding: Hardcover Expected publication date: July 1, 1997 ISBN: 0671004611 URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0671004611 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Making Contact : A Serious Handbook for Locating and Communicating With Extraterrestrials" by Bill Fawcett List: $22.00 -- Our Price: $15.40 -- You Save: $6.60 (30%) Subjects: Unidentified flying objects; Sightings and encounters; Life on other planets; Human-alien encounters; Interstellar communication; UFOs; Space Exploration; NEW AGE/PARAPSYCHOLOGY Publisher: William Morrow & Co 1 EdBinding: Hardcover Expected publication date: August 1, 1997 ISBN: 0688144861 URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0688144861
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 USAF 'Case Closed' - Idea From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:07:16 +0930 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:24:29 -0400 Subject: USAF 'Case Closed' - Idea G'day all, Not being a US citizen, I doubt that I would be able to accomplish the following suggestion, so I put it forward in the hope that one of the list members may have the requisite knowledge of how to go about such a process, and the will to follow it up. If one was to apply under the FOIA for an Audit or copy of the Audit Trail from the preparation of the Roswell "Case Closed" report by the USAF, would this not show how truthful and thorough the investigation conducted was? This is of course assuming that the audit itself was not adulterated in any way, and, if the government and USAF have nothing to hide, what have they to fear from such an enquiry? Would it not also show just how far ranging and all encompassing the preparation of the report was? I imagine that the government and USAF would be darting to their advisors rather urgently as soon as such an FOIA application was lodged. I would therefore suggest than an Audit Statement on the compilation of the actual FOIA request itself also be requested to prepared and forwarded as well. Just some food for thought. Mike Stahl. SAUFORI. "When all there is to fear is fear itself, There is nothing to fear at all."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Northern England Museum's Up-coming Exhibit From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:04:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:32:57 -0400 Subject: Northern England Museum's Up-coming Exhibit Dear Colleague, From November l997 to April l998, the National Museum of Photography, Film and Television, will be hosting an exhibition on unexplained 'PHENOMENON. The museum is situated in the City of Bradford, West Yorkshire (England) and it's curator has asked me to let you know about the exhibition. The museum is still looking for material for the exhibition especially film or video footage of anything unexplainmed or 'forytean' in nature. If you can help publicise or promote the exhibition, which will be open to the public free of charge, or if you ca helkp provide exhibition material, then could you please contact: Ian Hutcheon, Curator, Interpretation Group, National Museum of Photography, Film & Television, Pictureville, Bradford, West Yorkshire, England, BD1 1NQ. Tele: (+44) 01274 773399 EXT: 270. Fax: (+44) 01274 723155. E-MAIL: i.hutcheon@nmsi.ac.uk Please mention my name when contacting the museum, and please forward this message on to anyone who you think might be able to help. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Bob Shell's Mailbox From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:25:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:29:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Bob Shell's Mailbox UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Please hold posts for Bob Shell - his mailbox is full > and his server is bouncing mail > ebk Dear Errol, Bob Shell is currently in Las Vegas working on his magazine. He should be back next week some time. Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 03:54:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:07:54 -0400 Subject: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE..... THE OLIVER'S CASTLE CONTROVERSY EXPOSED In the Barge Inn, Wiltshire, England, on Tuesday July 22nd, 1997, Peter Sorenson, and Lee Winterson had a public meeting which puts to rest the controversy of the validity of the infamous "Oliver's Castle" video footage which shows lights flying over a field "making" a crop circle appear on August 11th of last year. Peter Sorenson and Lee Winterson, in cooperation with Nippon (Japanese) Television, went into the First Cut post production studios located in Bristol, England in a guerrilla style attempt to get the suspected maker of this video- the alleged John Whaley, real name John Wabe. He is employed and co-partner of First Cut studios, which supplies video post services and animation to professional media productions. Due to his expertise in computer graphics it was not difficult to seem completely real to untrained eyes. However, it was the investigative footwork of Lee Winterson which left no doubt as to the culprit, hence the cornering of John Wabe. Here's how the expose occurred in detail: >From the beginning, John Wabe used his pseudonym when presenting his amazing "footage". Yet, the phone number he gave was traced to belong to a John Wabe. Thus, from this name Lee tracked John down to First Cut studios in Bristol after many months. The real trick was to get John to admit his involvement! Lee and his business partner John Huckvale of AVP Studios ( a video facility) took in a camcorder under the pretense of "seeing the facility". While innocently taking shots of the equipment, John and Lee covertly focused on a framed photograph on the wall inside the office. This photo is in actuality a portrait of John Whaley, "alias" John Wabe himself. When they saw the footage they knew this was the very same man who brought in the Oliver's Castle footage nearly a year ago at a meeting with Peter Sorenson, at the Wagon and Horses pub, Avebury, England. Peter was later shown this footage and confirmed the identity of John Wabe (however John had changed his hair and grown a beard since their meeting). Now the plan fell into place - a live taping of an admission from the one and only John Wabe was needed to seal the mystery of WHO made this remarkable video and most importantly WHY. On Friday, July 18th , 1997, at approximately 730 AM, Lee, Peter, and seven Nippon TV camera crew people made their way to Bristol and the First Cut Studios. The film crew went inside with cameras rolling, while Lee and Peter sat outside in a car park with communication devices, sensing every move. There was a technical problem with the communications devices, so it was difficult to ascertain what was occurring inside. However Lee was relaying to Peter the events which were taking place which was this: The business partner of John Wabe, John Lomas, was shown the footage by the TV crew and confronted about John Wabe's connection to it. He said that "Yes, John was involved", but that the film crew would have to talk to John Wabe personally. John Lomas left the room at this point to consult with John Wabe, relating the nature of the film crew inquiry. While the film crew was unaware, John Wabe fled out of his office, leaving a client there on the spot. Peter Sorenson, patiently waiting with his camcorder in the car park, saw a man coming from the building, enter a car and start the ignition. His memory raced - then clicked. Yes, this was the man he met last year and - he was attempting to escape the cameras. Peter jumped out, camera starting to roll as John drove away. At a crucial moment of eye contact John saw Peter, recognized him, waved and smiled gallantly to the camera as he sped away in safety. Lee ran after the fleeing car, shouting requests if he was responsible for the footage...but to no avail. After this daring escapade , a request was made with John Lomas for John Wabe to come clean and admit his involvement. Afterwards, John Wabe has been in phone contact, stating he WAS involved in the production of this video but could not comment further due to an exclusive contract with a broadcast production, DISCOVERY CHANNEL, USA. He did make it clear that he would like this all to "Just go away". He is not hiding the fact that it IS a HOAX. In our opinion he has been paid well to perform this duty, and he almost go away with it. The British side of this hoaxed production team has raised questions as to the exclusive use of the Oliver's Castle footage. They were to air this program on August 11th or 12th. However, due to a phone conversation just after Lee's Barge Inn announcement, we found out that the DISCOVERY CHANNEL USA have moved ahead of schedule to air their program titled ?? "Oliver's Castle Fraud Explained" on Monday night, July 28th, 1997. Look in your listings and stay tuned for the next chapter of disinformation! As an aside, the woman heading the Discovery Channel production team named "Jane" has talked to us by phone, but is reluctant to give the real production name, or WHO is really behind it. Are they on the run because we are into their game? Were they or SOMEONE aware of Lee's announcement tonight?? Statement by Lee Winterson. -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:28:20 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:56:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:10:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative >Using your logic Roger, hell, you could be CIA doing some kind >of anti-debunking debunking technique. You do work for a NASA >contractor, don't you? That makes you suspicious right there. Thanks Rebecca. I get your point. You know and trust Kent. I don't know Kent and don't trust his motives, because I am an experienced "rocket scientist"... Excuse the pun, but it doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to see that his conclusions on Roswell are "unfounded, illogical and irrational". His conclusions will have you believe he ls an expert in aerospace systems, reliability engineering, metallurgy, psychiatry, and alien space vehicles. I rest my case. Kent may be a close friend to you, but he has motives that he hasn't shared with you. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:59:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:09:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:22:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' >To the best of my knowledge Kent called the cameramen's association (don't >remember the name of the organization but it is in his SCAM article) and was >given names/phone #'s of three people: Longo, Gibson and McGovern. I think >the first 3 he spoke to gave him all the same (or nearly the same answers) >but to be sure I would recommend that you contact Kent for the additional >and/or correct details. How many should he have interviewed? >It's easy to criticize what we ourselves have not investigated. You have >proof that Kent's cameramen are incorrect? Present the evidence and confront >them but don't do it on the "net" until AFTER you have contacted the men with >whom you may disagree. My comments weren't necessarily meant to be critical, but to point out that bias is a factor that may well have come into play. The number of cameramen interviewed is irrelevent if you've gone through a selection process to make sure they can provide the statements you require to make your point. Where he obtained the names, their years of service, and portfolio is interesting information, and could help to lend credibility to their comments. But in the end, he would have to make a value judgement on which interviews to use, and it would only make sense for him to use those that supported his own beliefs (or the viewpoint he wanted to promote). It was obvious that Kent was convinced that the AA film was a fake from the beginning. I probably would have been more willing to listen to his comments if he had not relied so heavily on the fact that the AA creature looked too human, which he charactorized as an impossibility. That opinion certainly can't be proven and seems to indicate pre-conceived notions that many might not agree with. Unless he had a change of heart, any investigation that he performed, or interviews that he conducted, would have been tainted by his beliefs. [I would note that IMHO this is common in this genre, and without a solid (and acceptable) peer review process we are all left to our own belief structure and knowledge to judge the evidence presented.] I am not as critical of Kent as others have been on this list, and while I may disagree with his findings I understand that everyone has to reach their own conclusions and they may be different than mine. His "Scam" article was well written and researched, but that doesn't mean that it was an impartial examination of the evidence. That he changed his stance on Roswell and now accepts the "MOGUL" explanation is somewhat surprising, given his decision to begin an international initiative to gather signatures in search of the truth, but those are the conclusions he has reached. IMHO, Kent Jeffrey was not a secret "debunker" waiting for the proper moment to throw cold water on Roswell. If that were the case, I think he would have been more subtle and the damage would have been more noticable. From the discussions I've held with a number of people, Jeffrey's change of heart has had the same impact as the new book by the Air Force, which is relatively minor. But there are many in the genre who compare his actions to that of a traitor, and if he wasn't aware of the negative feelings this would generate he was fooling himself.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jul 97 08:44:42 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:06:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:40 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Hi John, >Mr Shell would you please tell us if you have had an opportunity to inspect >a piece of the original AA film, or if it is only video that you have >worked with? Certainly. I'm happy to try and answer you and the others who have treated me with respect and asked questions in an appropriate manner. Sorry to be a few days in responding, but I've been out in Las Vegas on a magazine assignment. Interesting story, BTW, in the local paper about an archeologist who managed to secretly penetrate the Area 51 periphery and get all the way to papoose lake. He spent a week in there undetected looking for archelogical traces reported by early miners and then hiked back out none the worse for wear. Unfortunately, this is a seven-part series, and being there for only four days I was not able to read it all. Maybe Glenn Campbell, if he's lurking, can read the rest and let us know if it contains any real revelations, as the initial episodes kept hinting. Anyway, to get back to your question. I have two pieces of film given to me by Ray Santilli. Bob Kiviat has the piece Ray originally gave to Philip Mantle, and Philip has the piece originally given to Kiviat. Additionally, John Purdy has a number of pieces of film given to him by Ray. The section which was chemically analyzed by Dr. Malange has proved to be from a type of acetate film base last used in 1956-57. Also, Larry Cate at Eastman Kodak's Hollywood facility was allowed to examine one complete roll of the film, as well as the film can it was in, which he indicates was of the proper vintage. This is the film on which he saw the edge markings of triangle and square (which could indicate 1927, 1947 or 1967). Unfortunately, Cate saw the film before this became a big issue, and he does not now recall if he looked at the images, or if he did just what they were. This is unfortunate. The film pieces I have, as well as those sent to Mantle and Kiviat, all appear to have been taken from a segment of film which appears before the autopsy begins on Santilli's video. We have only Ray's word that this film is part of that reel. Additionally, I have a photo copy of a piece of film similar to those given to John Purdy in which the square and triangle symbols are clearly visible. So this is the evidence so far. I have stated very clearly in all of my public presentations about the film that the chain of evidence which links the film to 1947 is flawed and partially circumstantial. Personally, having gotten to know Ray and his associates, I am willing to generally accept his statements about the film. I allow for the fact that he is a promoter, and has a tendency to exaggerate for effect. I also allow for the fact that he had no idea what a firing squad he would face when he got into this, and wishes he had never heard of this film or its cameraman. Now, as for there being a film or not, I think there is no question on this point. Video experts have stated that they are certain that the video was made from a film original, and this has been talked to death quite some time ago. I see no point in going over old ground over and over. Suffice it to say that film to video transfer introduces certain artifacts, and they are present in this video. Ray's own story is that the original film was in such poor shape that he had to have it copied frame by frame onto another 16 mm film, and this makes sense as at least one short segment has been copied in the wrong sequence and another was copied backwards. The video was then produced from this 16 mm duplicate. Much of the film was said to have been delivered loose in a box, broken into strips. I can imagine that it was a nightmare to try to put it all back together in proper sequence. I have never said that I have 100% confidence that the film is real. I think the weight of the evidence shows a film made before 1957, and a high probability that it was made in 1947. That still does not tell us what it is on the table being dissected. My personal belief is that it is an unknown humanoid life form of undetermined origin, not necessarily extraterrestrial. I hope this answers the question, but if not I am not prepared to spend endless hours dealing with more questions. I simply do not have the time. Bob Shell P.S.: I was watching one of the movie channels the other night in the hotel, and they were running one of those promos for an upcoming flick. I noticed that on the "page" they threw up for the voice over, there was an animation of a film strip scrolling past. Along the top edge of the film strip was the square and triangle repeated over and over!!! Coincidence??? I wonder.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Pop Culture & Abductions - A non-Relationship From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:51:14 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:01:59 -0400 Subject: Pop Culture & Abductions - A non-Relationship Hi, everybody, In regard to the current discussion about the alleged relationship of abduction motifs to scattered themes in popular culture, I urge all interested persons to read Eddie Bullard's comprehensive examination and debunking of same. (In my judgment anyone who expects to be taken seriously when he or she talks about the abduction phenomenon haad better have a thorough familiarity with Bullard's seminal work on this complex subject.) Bullard concludes for many reasons that no relationship exists. His most recent contribution to the discussion appears in the forthcoming second edition of my UFO Encyclopedia, to be published this fall by Omnigraphics. As for the nonsense (pardon my lack of tact; it's the only word I can think of) that has the "Bollero Shield" episode of Outer Limits being recycled in Barney Hill's testimony, see my discussion in High Strangeness (UFO Encyclopedia #3, first edition), p. 250. Alas, this piece of debunking flummery, like so many others, is by now an unkillable canard. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Current Encounters: Oliver's Castle Video - It is From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:44:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:45:14 -0400 Subject: Current Encounters: Oliver's Castle Video - It is On July 22, 1997, <bikebob@MO.NET> forwarded the following information: Statement given to Colin Andrews (CPR International) by Lee Winterston today - 22nd July 1997. IMPORTANT CONCLUSIONS TO OLIVER'S CASTLE VIDEO INVESTIGATION. NIPPON TELEVISION WORKING WITH LEE WINTERSTON CONFIRM COLIN ANDREWS FINDINGS. OLIVER'S CASTLE UFO/CROP CIRCLES VIDEO IS A FRAUD. JOHN WABE IS EXPOSED - IT WAS MADE TO FOOL THE WORLD. Lee Winterston: I want to make the following statement after a very busy week bringing together the final conclusions of my investigation into the Oliver's Castle video given to Colin Andrews last August. As you know it was also passed later to Peter Sorensen. Both parties were given authority to have the material researched and shown or used by the media. Colin Andrews was given a written contract which has today been confirmed by Lawyers representing the Television and Film Unions, as legally binding. Peter Sorensen was given a verbal contract by the same person calling himself John Wheyleigh. Both contracts were witnessed being given. It has now been discovered that this man has signed a world exclusive arrangement with a third party, which is illegal due to the other contracts agreed previously. Before going any further, my own enquiries have in the last week been jointly persuade with the active involvement and assistance of Nippon Television from Japan now in the UK filming a program on the crop circles. We have both followed up on the results of Colin Andrews investigations and published in the last issue of the CPR International Newsletter in which it is stated that the man who must answer the serious questions about this film is one Mr.John Wabe and not Wheyleigh. The article also concluded that the film was a fraud and that an intricate plan was being played out, using Colin Andrews and Peter Sorensen and I believe myself to promote the video. Andrews investigation lead him to a Video/TV studio called 'First Cut' based in the HTV television complex in Bristol, England, where all attempts to interview a John Wabe failed. I can confirm today that Andrews conclusions were 100% correct and NTV and myself support them fully. Our findings are that the man calling himself John Wheyleigh is in fact John Wabe who is in partnership at a video and television editing studio called 'First Cut'. He is in partnership there with Mr. John Lomas. On Friday the 18th July Peter Sorensen was invited to join myself and a television crew from Nippon Television (NTV). We went to the First Cut studio and played the Oliver's Castle film to John Lomas. John Wabe, his partner was said to be with a client at the time. We asked to speak to Wabe about this film. Lomas left us and went to speak with him. When he returned Lomas said categorically that they could say that Wabe was involved with the footage. Meanwhile Wabe was seen to run out of the studio with Sorensen and Winterston in pursuit. Through Lomas we gave Wabe until mid day on Tuesday the 22nd July to come clean and tell us the whole story behind the film. If he did not do so we said we would place our information and their business address on the Internet and pass the investigation over to other parties to complete. Since that time John Wabe has been fully co-operating. He has told us that he has signed an exclusive contract with another company for his story to be told in a future television program. This company will not permit him to be interviewed because he is contracted to a production company who are going to sell the program to television showing how he fooled the world with this film for a full year. I am pleased that researchers twigged what was happening and that together we have for once nipped in the bud an attempt to extort large sums of money by these people manipulating the media system for their own ends. The company who is touting the exclusive agreement (which has no legal standing due to the hand written contract given to Andrews by John Wabe) is being persuade by us and we have a very good idea who it is. At some future time this will be revealed and it will come as no surprise to those in the crop circle world. John Wabe has told this company how the film was made and blow by blow what the plan was. It will be aired on a UFO Hoax show in yet another Doug and Dave style program, it is thought on the 11th of August. We do not yet know which network but it might be 'Live TV' in UK. NTV will transmit to the Japanese people the whole story as they witnessed the final nails being driven in the coffin of these fraudsters during the last two days. This will be aired in Japan on the 12th August. Also I am working on the final edit of a video and TV program called 'UFO and The Crop Circle Connection' which will soon show the rest of the world how researchers discovered the truth behind the film and the people. Some researchers were very critical of Colin Andrews conclusions and accused him of everything from leaving a sinking ship to dismissing the best evidence yet for the real phenomenon. Others accused him of not knowing what it was he was looking at as they also accused me of being involved in the fraud. He was right, the film was a fraud so was John Wabe and almost certainly the crop circle called the 'Snowflake' which melted before our very eyes this last few days. So it is all over bar the shouting - thank God. Editor CPRI: NTV spokesperson has kept Colin fully informed of developments as has Lee Winterston and we want to thank them both very much for doing so. NTV are of the opinion that the crop design 'Snowflake' was made by colleagues of Wabe and that after the filming of the completed design from the Oliver's Castle Hill, the back engineering and addition of the UFO's and then filming a back lit screen with a hand held camera onto 8mm was very easily accomplished. Colin Andrews wants it known that he has spent a great deal of his own money on this investigation and feels it was worth doing so in the interest of the crop circle research community and to enlighten the public to such nonsense.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 23 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:36:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:28:20 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:56:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell > His conclusions will have > you believe he ls an expert in aerospace systems, > reliability engineering, metallurgy, psychiatry, and > alien space vehicles. His opinions concerning air transportation, I think are off the mark, but his stuff about hypnosis was based on interviews with experts. He never claimed to be an expert in anything. You inferred that from what you wanted to read. That's OK, though. Rocket Scientist or not, you can still be wrong. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jul 97 14:34:19 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:15:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:28:20 GMT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net Roger, I want to make it clear to you and others here that I do NOT know Kent Jeffrey. We played answering machine tag for a while a year or more ago, but never managed to connect and talk. So I can't speak about Kent's character from any first-hand experience. That being said, I was outraged when I saw his piece on the Santilli film, and even more outraged that MUFON published it. It was quite clear that he had made up his mind, and then looked for evidence to support his conclusion that the film could not possibly be real because a humanoid which evolved on another planet could not possibly look so much like us. This is a ridiculous premise, since we have no way of knowing how evolution really works. It is still a theory, and there are many holes in it even in explaining what has come about on this planet. We simply have no idea how evolution would progress elsewhere, and therefore no _a priori_ reasons to dismiss the film on these grounds. Additionally, even if the film is real, we do not know that the being shown in it is extraterrestrial in origin or evolution. The problem with Kent's cameramen is that their statements do not agree with published documents by Kodak and others from the appropriate time period. Simply put, they do not know what they are talking about photographically. Contrary to Rebecca's assertions, I see no need for me to speak with purveyors of nonsense personally to refute their nonsense. Nonsense is nonsense, regardless of the source. Speaking with the source will not alter that. Just as in your case, I don't know Kent, but I emphatically do not trust him. I do know Rebecca, and I think she is an honest truth seeker, and I do not mistrust her motives. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:17:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:59:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:09:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged' > My comments weren't necessarily meant to be critical, but to point out that > bias is a factor that may well have come into play. Well Steve, it doesn't even take a rocket scientist to know that bias can and will come into play in almost anything you read. > But in the end, he would have to make a value judgement on > which interviews to use, and it would only make sense for him to use those > that supported his own beliefs (or the viewpoint he wanted to promote). You won't believe me and I'm not asking you take my word for it -- he used the interviews with the only 3 men he spoke to -- the first three. Should he have kept going until he found someone who disagreed with him? I don't think so, there were people all over the place who disagreed with him, most of them anonymous -- claiming credentials. Kent found three guys with the credentials, knowledge, experience and the BALLS to use their REAL names to refute the pro side. > It was obvious that Kent was convinced that the AA film was a fake from the > beginning. What do you call the beginning? I can tell you he was not convinced until after he saw it. He didn't think that aliens would be so similar to us (they even had fingernails and toenails) but he sought out opinions on that as well. No, he didn't present contradictory opinions to that idea, because he wasn't writing a paper about the pros and cons. If you want to read the pro side, you know where to go. > His "Scam" > article was well written and researched, but that doesn't mean that it was > an impartial examination of the evidence. It was never presented as an impartial examination. I do know that Kent really would have liked the autopsy film to be real. I know that for a fact. Of course, he was probably misleading me (as Roger thinks) when he told me all those things and spent his own time and money trying to find out. > But there are many in the genre who compare his actions > to that of a traitor, and if he wasn't aware of the negative feelings this > would generate he was fooling himself. I can tell you honestly he was forewarned by numerous people what this could and would cause. He couldn't in good conscience keep his new beliefs and findings quiet. Frankly, I wish he would have. But he did what he felt is right. So shoot him. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Bob Shell's Mailbox From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jul 97 14:53:27 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:19:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Bob Shell's Mailbox >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:25:47 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell's Mailbox All, I'm back. Got back late last night. I'm working with CompuServe to get set up with a bigger mailbox. Theirs cut off at 100, and it only takes a day for mine to fill up every time I leave. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:56:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:21:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:46:06 EDT >>The "few"? believers to whom Sean refers includes me. Call >>it a gut feeling or feminine intuition, but I think it very >>well could be genuine. I was born in 1940 and was constantly >>treated to my Uncle Dale's home movies. They looked a lot >>like the AA film - without the alien. >But THAT is a very good part of WHY the film doesn't look genuine. It >LOOKS amateurish, and a Military camareman, on an official shoot, >ESPECIALLY on something as important as the autopsy of an alien, would >NOT look like that. Hell, raw footage of the invasions of Pacific >islands in WWII looked better! >And there are SO many other flaws. To focus ONLY on the things that >COULD prove that it's real, and ignore the others that could prove a >fraud is the worst thing a SERIOUS investigator can do. Even an amateur >should know better. As far as serious investigative research into this issue (as to whether the film is real or not) is I believe beyond the capabilities of the average researcher. I say this because unless you can get a hold of a piece of the actual footage it is almost impossible to date and therefore you have to go to experts in the field of photography and et al. Since this costs an awful lot of money it then makes it well and truely out of the picture for the average researcher "serious" or not. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 'Conspiracies', Toronto Globe and Mail, 07-23-97 From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:34:04 -0400 Subject: 'Conspiracies', Toronto Globe and Mail, 07-23-97 SOURCE: Toronto Globe and Mail - p.A16 DATE: Wed. July 23, 1997 SECTION: Social Studies Conspiracies Recent U.S. news: * A whopping 51 per cent of Americans believe it is either "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials were "directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy" in 1963, according to a nationwide poll of 1,009 people, selected randomly by computer, conducted by Scripps Howard News Service and Ohio University. * "Some 65 per cent of Americans (42 per cent of college graduates) believe UFOs have landed on Earth and 80 per cent be- lieve the U.S. government knows more than it's telling," says The Trends Journal, published in Rhinebeck, N.Y. * Pathfinder's pictures from Mars have drawn a variety of criticisms from conspiracy buffs on The Internet. "The images are obviously fake," says a post- ing on the newsgroup "sci.space.policy." On the other hand, a message on the "alt- .conspiracy" newsgroup warns: "The probe has in fact landed on Mars and will continue to send back photos and data... until life is found there. Then the transmissions will cease and the U.S. government will say it was a malfunction in the equipment, when in fact NASA is still receiving messages and signals." --- Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 {78} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:39:06 -0400 Subject: {78} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' July 23rd, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 78 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {78} part 1 or part 2 In this issue: United Kingdom News --------------------------- [UK 1] SAS in Aien Riddle [UK 2] King Arthur linked to UFO sightings [UK 3] UFO swoops on lorry driver [UK 4] Bonnybridge, Scotland [UK 5] 3rd part of Nick Pope's extract 'The Uninvited' World News --------------- [W 1] Ralph Rene 'Nasa Mooned America' [W 2] Car occupants were radioactive [W 3] July 1997 time came to a brief standstill [W 4] UFO link as cows are mutilated [W 5] Did rats from space down TWA Flight 800? [W 6] Oath upon inadvertant exposure to classified security data... United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: 13 July 1997 SAS in Aien Riddle Troops saw "four little grey men" walk into ambush - then vanish By Joe Brady SAS soldiers waiting to ambush IRA gunmen were stunned when aliens walked in front of their gun sights, it was claimed yesterday. The undercover troops hiding near an arms cache on a hillside in South Armagh say they saw up to four small grey figures. The "aliens" and soldiers stared at each other for a minute. Then the "spacemen" disappeared - and seconds later the eight SAS troops saw a flash in the sky. They were so disturbed by what they had seen they took the rare decision to abandon the stake out. Their commander was furious and their comrades in the elite Special Air Services regiment laughed or accused them of being high on drugs. But the eight stuck to their story and it was accepted. Now, four years later, it has been revealed to an Ulster UFO study group by a former Army intelligence officer. Belfast based expert Hugh O'Brien said: "we are trying to interview the soldiers even though some may be too embarrassed to come forward. "We have learnt that on that morning they were convinced they saw three, perhaps four, small grey figures in human form. "At no stage did the soldiers feel threatened. They simply could not believe what they were seeing. "The alien forms made no move towards them but judging from what the soldiers told their regimental priest and commanding officer, the aliens knew the soldiers were there. It was like a stand off. Within a few minutes, probably much less, the aliens disappeared. "All the men can recall is that in a very quick space of time they saw a brief flash of light in the sky." Mr O'Brien added: "these men were fit, highly trained observers and to put it down to some flights of imagination would be absurd." The weapons cache was recovered by other soldiers. [UK 2]****** Source: MSN King Arthur linked to UFO sightings White triangles were hovering on the rugged coastline around Tintagel Castle, witnesses say Dave Gillham - 'military officials were unable to explain the sightings' by Nick Constable and Karen Farrington MSN NEWS A SPATE of bizarre UFO sightings involving bright geometrical shapes have been reported near sites linked to the legend of King Arthur. In two separate incidents witnesses reported white triangles hovering on the rugged coastline around Tintagel Castle, Cornwall - where Arthur was supposedly conceived. In the third sighting a group of lights formed a square above a lonely moorland road The X-Files type mystery involve shapes which appear two-dimensional and move in total silence. Intriguingly, one witness reported hearing a muffled cry for help seconds before the triangles appeared. 50 YEARS OF UFOs In the beginning... Bookies slash the odds on alien life 'Texture was rubber, like a moist wet suit' King Arthur linked to UFO sightings 'British Roswell' witness was ostracised Reports on the sightings, backed by detailed witness statements, have been logged with the Ministry of Defence by the Cornwall UFO Research Group. However the MoD's Secretariat (Air Staff) has refused to investigate further claiming there is 'no evidence that the UK Air Defence Region might have been compromised'. All but one of the four witnesses has refused to be named publicly for fear of ridicule. The first sighting at 4am on January 11 this year occurred a few hundred yards from Tintagel Castle. Dave Gillham goes UFO-spotting on the Cornish coast A 40-year-old woman was woken by a flashing light in her bedroom. Through the window she saw a five foot high triangle flanked by three rows of pulsating red lights. She went back to bed thinking she was dreaming but returned to the window five minutes later to see two triangles side by side The woman, who lives alone, said she was used to seeing tractor lights or the torches of farmers out rabbiting. She added: "It wasn't like that. It was extremely bright." The second triangle sighting was at 8pm on 15 February at Polzeath beach, eight miles south of Tintagel. "Perhaps there is a hint of truth in some of those legends" - DAVE GILLHAM Cornwall UFO Research Group A courting couple walking down to the sea in pitch darkness saw a bright, 20-foot long triangle, flanked by a smaller one, suddenly appear at the top of the beach and float towards the sea. At one point the shapes were within 12 feet of the couple. They vanished as soon as they touched the waves. The woman said: "We heard a noise, I don't know if it was connected. It was a cry for help that had just scared me anyway. It was sort of mumbled. "The triangles didn't hurt my eyes. It became fascinating but it was like, wow, you know...I found myself drawn. Then we asked each other: 'Did you see that?'" The third incident occurred in March near Dozmary Pool, Bodmin Moor - the lake into which Sir Bedivere is said to have hurled Arthur's sword Excalibur. Drama student Matt Punter, 18, saw a square of lights hovering eight metres above his car as he drove home late at night. "I suddenly had to duck and slam on the brakes. My first thought was that a plane was crashing in the road in front of me" - MATT PUNTER Drama student He said: "I suddenly had to duck and slam on the brakes. My first thought was that a plane was crashing in the road in front of me. "It stopped about ten metres further down the road. It was four different coloured lights in a square with no substance to it at all. "I always thought people who claimed to see UFOs were a bit sad. Now I know what they were on about." Dave Gillham, of the Cornwall UFO Research Group, said military officials at RAF St Mawgan and RNAS Culdrose in Cornwall were unable to explain the sightings. "We believe something very strange is occuring, and has been occurring possibly for centuries, in this part of Cornwall," he said. "Legend links Tintagel closely with the birth of King Arthur and the magician Merlin. Perhaps there is a hint of truth in some of those legends." [UK 3]****** From: andrew@espeland.demon.co.uk Source: Burton Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 12th June 1997 UFO swoops on lorry driver Tales of the unexpected have been brewing across Burton and South Derbyshire, as residents bombarded police with stories involving - flying bricks. >From the outer limits of Newhall to Stapenhill, people are experiencing close encounters of the third kind - with a series of unidentified flying oblong objects. Reports, which started with the sighting of a crescent-shaped UFO hovering over Swadlincote, switched yesterday as residents spotted a pinky brown brick shaped object in the sky above Newhall. The X File-style sightings sparked a UFO investigation after a Burton lorry driver claimed that he was confronted by a giant airborne black mass he could only describe as resembling a giant brick or skip near a UFO spotters' paradise. The driver, who works for the Burton firm of Thacker's Pet Products says he had left the Victoria Crescent firm to deliver goods to Middleton in Derbyshire, a stone's throw away from Ashbourne, once a peak UFO activity centre, when he stopped at a junction. There, across his vision, was a jet black shape without any detail. It hovered immediately in front of him before zooming from one side to the other faster than his eyes could follow and then stopping. Mr Stephen Dyche, of Baker Street, Stapenhill, is to return to the scene of the sighting in 10 days with UFO investigators keen to discover an explanation. He said: "It certainly wasn't aerodynamic. It was getting on for a shape like a brick with nothing to keep it up there. It was just stuck there and there wasn't any movement like you'd expect from a helicopter if it was hovering. "I didn't believe in UFOs or that sort of thing before now but this has definitely changed my mind." Mr Dyche said later sightings of an object similar to the one he saw on Monday had been reported in East Anglia. And he said after reporting the incident to police and the Civil Aviation Authority an organisation called Sub-paranormal Investigations is also set to probe the case. [UK 4]****** From: "Phil Light" <phil.light@ukonline.co.uk> Source: BBC Breakfast News Date: 13th June 1997 - 8:50am Bonnybridge, Scotland This also is not a laughing matter. 50 years ago today, an American air force pilot returned from a mission claims to have seen 9 disc shaped objects flying over the state of Washington. The phrase 'flying saucer' was born. Conspiricists and film makers never looked back. One UFO hotspot is Bonnybridge near Glasgow. Our reporter Emma is there. Emma: Yes, something wierd is definately going on here in Bonnybridge because there have been more than 2000 ufo sightings in the last 3 years from sinister cigar shaped objects to funny triangles, and of course the classic flying saucer. Most of these, it has to be said, can be explained, but never-the-less, 250 of them still remain a mystery. So, is there anything up there? Billy Buchanan (Falkirk Councillor): The area above Bonnybridge here is commonly known as a flight path and I would say around 75% of UFO sightings in the area have taken place here. If you look at back here [points to masts along a road], there are radio tele-communiction masts and there have been many, many sightings along here. What the significance of the masts are, I don't know, but I think they've got a relevance. It was on this very road about 5 years ago, I think it was in late October, when the first sighting took place. A businessman encountered an object that was hovering above here. [camera points up at some trees] He came to my house that night. I could see that he was very upset and frightened. We put an ad in the paper, to see if anyone else had seen something. 400 people replied, and that was when we realised something was going on. Ann Malcolm: We've had quite a lot of experiences and the 1st time it happened was when my son came into the house, saying he was being followed by something. My daughter in law filmed it. It was quite scary. Really bright light, moving slowly, no noise. It lasted quite a long time, and then it disappears. We've been looking at different things, and trying to find an answer, but no-one will give us an answer. Craig Malcolm: This is a film I shot in November. [home video showing a plane moving above a full moon] If you watch closely, there is an object which passes underneath it. [a green blob moves across the screen in approx 1/6 sec] This is the type of thing I see all the time - week in, week out. It got to the stage that when I take the dog for a walk, I take the video camera with me just in case I see anything, and I must admit, I've videoed a lot of strange objects. It would be interesting to find out what they are, and to find out why they are coming here to this small village. There are ordinary people here. There must be some reason they are coming here. [video of bright light moving slowly across sky] Emma: Well one man who thinks he may have some answers to what is being seen in the skies above Bonnybridge is ufologist Malcolm Robinson. Lets start with the video footage which we have just seen. What do you think of that? Malcolm (UFO Investigation Association): Well, I think that particular piece of footage was actually an aircraft. Emma: And do you think that is what's happening to most people around here, that what they think is a UFO, but actually has a rational explanation? Malcolm: When in most instances, people see something in the sky which they see honestly, but mistakingly. But there is video footage of objects which do not conform to aircraft movements, and I believe these are ufo's. Emma: So some have no rational explanation at all. Lets deal with the things are are mistaking for ufo's. What other things could they be? Malcolm: They can be aircraft where the sun is reflecting off the fuselage, causing satilites. There's a whole range of things which can account for ufo sightings. Emma: You think that up to 95% (cut short) Malcolm: Yes, I think that up to 95% of sighting can be explained have natural identifyable solution. That leaves 5% that are very, very puzzling. Emma: Now you've brought a film with you which of an object which you can't idenify. We have some footage here. [bright light moving across sky at night, above street lights] Malcolm: We are looking at a very bright intense light which is not an aircraft, we checked that there were no aircraft in the area at the time. Emma: Now that's your job isn't it - to check for any possible explanations. Malcolm: It is indeed. We check with the police, the airports, and the MOD, and meterological stations to find a rational explanation to account for any given sighting. Emma: Phil Tavis brought along this photo, which also you cannot identify. Let have a look at this photo. [picture of underside of a flying saucer, bathed in orange light] Malcolm: Well what you are seeing is the underside of an object, and it is consistant with many sightings in this locality. It is a very puzzling photograph. Emma: Why do you think it is happening here. Why Bonnybridge? Malcolm: It's a million dollar question. All that we can say is that ufo sightings seem to be more concentrated here than anywhere else. Emma: Well it is certainly a phenomenon it that people see things which they cannot identify, whether you think there is an extra-terrestrial explanation or not. You think the government should come up here and investigate. Malcolm: Almost certainly. I would like to see a government investigation into the Bonnybridge phenomenon. I'm sure the British government know what is going on and I would like to see them get involved with Bonnybridge. What is happening is very tangible, very real, and I demand an explantion. Emma: Well I'm sure the villagers here want one to. Back to the studio. ----------------------- I hope to be able to get the pictures soon. When I do, I will post them on my web site at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light/. If you e-mail me, I will send you the pictures as soon as I can. [UK 5]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 15th May 1997 Here is the third and final part of Nick Popes abridged extract from his new book 'The Uninvited'. For three years, Ministry of Defence official Nick Pope was the UFO desk officer in the MoD division, Secretariat (Air Staff) 2a. In that time he concluded that there was compelling evidence for some encounters being of extraterrestrial origin. His subsequent expose, Open Skies, Closed Minds, was an instant best seller. Now, in a second book, The Uninvited, he has reached an even more startling conclusion. Aliens, he believes, are actually abducting thousands of people, possibly as a programme to 'civilise' human society. Today, in our final extract, he focuses on more strange cases and looks at conventional explanations for alien abductions. by Nick Pope Former UFO Desk Officer At The Ministry Of Defence If Patsy had just dreamed floating above the park, why had a mysterious wound appeared on her body. . . What happened to Patsy Ryan, a 28 year old psychology graduate, in June 1992 is the sort of experience that sends ufologists into a frenzy. She was spending a quiet afternoon sunbathing in a park near her London home, when, suddenly, she felt herself being lifted up into the air in a violent spinning motion. Even more extraordinary, not least because she seemed to be about 50ft above the ground, she was embarrassed that others would see her up in the air. Such a thought my suggest that Patsy was dreaming, but there was to be a dramatic and compelling piece of evidence to support the theory that something more astonishing had happened. Her immediate concern was to get back down to the ground. Willing herself to return, she came down slowly but surely, although she is clear in her mind that the last part of her descent was the hardest. She remembers a strange jolting sensation, which she believes was her spiritual body interlocking with her physical self. Then she became aware of great pain in her upper thigh, the most excruciating she had ever known. Later, at home, she examined her leg. She found a wound about three quarters of an inch long, and two thirds of an inch wide. In time the wound became redder and more raised. She sought advice from her friend Hazel Gilbert, a nurse, who said the wound looked like a burn. Two or three days later, the pain spread to the rest of her leg, and she asked Hazel to take her to the casualty department of Guy's Hospital in London. Nurses at Guys examined the wound and confirmed Hazel's view that it looked like a burn. But Patsy was adamant that she had no recollection of having received such an injury. The wound healed slowly, but the scar remained, and is still faintly visible. It is reminiscent of the type of scars often reported by abductees as resulting from medical operations carried out by extraterrestrials. How did Patsy receive such a serious burn in a public park? Why did she not recall being injured? How did it occur without leaving any mark on her shorts? There was a gap of three years, Patsy believes, before she finally met extraterrestrials face to face.. The 'encounter' happened on the afternoon of Saturday, September 23, 1995, while she was working in a Central London art shop. A group of people assembled outside the shop in a quiet side street, and Patsy said to one of her colleagues, Maggie, that it looked as if a coach party had arrived. The 13 strong group were definitely unusual. All of them were oddly dressed, as if uncomfortable in their clothes. One middle aged man, for example, was wearing a stylish pin-striped suit, but had a pair of scruffy trainers on his feet. A man with what appeared to be an American accent said hello to Patsy as they went into the shop, but she found herself unable to speak. It was as if an other-worldly atmosphere had descended. All the visitors were talking, but Patsy and Maggie where unable to make out a single clear word. The group, having made no purchases, finally began to filter out of the shop, but then a Swedish looking woman stepped forward and bought a single pencil. Since then Patsy has flirted briefly with the world of ufology, but she has decided that it is a world she wants little to do with. Abridged extract from 'The Uninvited' by Nick Pope, published by Simon and Schuster on June 2nd 1997 at 15 pounds and 99 pence. To order a copy p&p free, call 01624 675137. During September 1990, James and Pamela Millen went camping in Dorset. One night they woke just before 3am and James, intrigued by lights he could see through the canvas, went outside. He saw several orange balls of light that seemed to be dancing in the air over an adjacent field. He pointed them out to Pamela and the couple watched, mesmerised, as the glowing spheres moved silently around. After a couple of minutes, he decided to get his camera, but what happens next remains unclear. Pamela recalls that James reappeared and commented on a pile of cigarette ends at Pamela's feet, which seemed odd as he had been away for only a minute or so and she could not have smoked that many. When they looked at their watches it was 5.40am. More than two and a half hours were unaccounted for. James subsequently had recollections of being in a circular white room, lying on his back on something cold, and seeing figures dressed in robes rather like those worn by the Ku Klux Klan. He has no idea what happened to him, but believes that it was 'beneficial'. On November 9, 1979, forester Bob Taylor was walking in Dechmont woods near Livingston, in Scotland, when he saw a huge, domed UFO hovering silently about 250ft above the ground. Two small, round balls detached from the craft and moved rapidly towards the startled forester. The objects had spikes on them, and looked rather like old naval mines. The balls attached themselves to Taylor's trousers, cutting him, and he recalls an acrid smell, which was his last memory before passing out. When he came to, he recalled the sound of an object moving off at high speed. When he returned to his truck, it would not start. Later, the police concluded that an object weighing several tons had been in the clearing. Lost hours on a weird car journey Londoner Mary O'Donnell, a 31 year old secretary, was apparently involved in one of the most spectacular 'missing time' incidents I've come across. Last October, Mary was travelling on the M1 approaching Leeds with her friend Brenda Bailey when she noticed what she thought was a small aircraft flying across the road ahead of them. It turned towards their car and, while Mary had a brief impression that it might be trying to land on the motorway, Brenda reached for some drinks that were on the floor. When she looked up again she yelled: 'Where the hell are we?' They were no longer on the motorway, but on a roundabout in central Leeds. Mary and Brenda had both experienced the same sudden transition from motorway to roundabout. Just before Mary saw the aircraft, they had made a note of the time - 2pm. Now, an instant later as far as they were concerned, it was 5.30pm The scenario fits the classic story of aliens intercepting people travelling in cars, but surely anything would have been witnessed by countless other motorists. Could some form of mass hypnosis have been involved? Explanations for these disturbing occurrences If abductions are nothing to do with an extraterrestrial presence, what conventional theories might explain what is going on. Birth Trauma Many psychologists believe that the trauma of birth is one of our most profound experiences, and is largely responsible for shaping our psyche. Is it not conceivable that recollections of abductions are recollections of birth? Some of the images reported in typical abduction experience mirror images associated with birth. Many abductees report being in an environment that contains no right angles. Might this not be a distorted memory of the womb? The aliens bear more than a passing resemblance to a foetus. The central procedure reported by so many abductees is medical, and is recalled as traumatic. The problem with such a theory is that, the abduction phenomenon is experienced by only a small percentage of the population. Near-death/Out of body experiences In a typical near death experience (NDE), said to occur sometimes in hospitals when a person is clinically dead for a few seconds, the subject reports a lifting sensation. There is a feeling that they are travelling down a tunnel, at the end of which is a bright light. Some experts believe NDEs arise from the brain being starved of oxygen. But this would not explain the NDE cases where people report details of real conversations that occurred outside the room they were in. The out of body experience (OBE) is similar but is not limited to critically ill people. They will typically report seeing their body lying below them. The similarity of of sensation and imagery between abductions, NDEs and OBEs - especially the lifting sensation - is remarkable. Hoaxes Fraudsters are often intelligent people who are capable of constructing intricate and believable fantasies. Some do it for fun, others for publicity and money. Then there are those who have a 'fantasy-prone personality': the psychologically driven need to be at the centre of dramatic events. However, bogus stories account for relatively few abduction testimonies. False memory syndrome Memory is not an accurate record of past events. Sometimes, when we play events over in our minds or relate an experience, what started as something about which we were unsure finishes up as a certainty. This is called false memory syndrome. Hypnagogic or Hypnopompic imagery Just before we fall asleep and just after we wake up, our minds are in a curious state of consciousness. In this state we sometimes see images or experience sensations that seem real. Temporal lobe lability The temporal lobes are areas of the brain associated with memory, emotion and understanding of speech. They can be extremely labile - that is, unstable and responsive to stimulation - and give rise to the feeling of a strange presence, a sense of ascending into the air, and panic. Electromagnetism Some researchers suggest that many UFO and abduction experiences have their roots in electromagnetic anomalies - possibly caused by tectonic stresses in the Earth's crust - which can cause hallucinations in those who come close to them. Sleep paralyses This is the biological process which inhibits our movements during sleep. In the borderline state between being asleep and awake, it can lead to situations where people wake up and are momentarily unable to move, perhaps giving them the impression that something is holding them down. Child sex abuse Such events have a devastating effect on the victims, who will carry the mental scars for life. The mind often suppresses memories of traumatic events. The problem is that they never disappear and can resurface from the subconscious at any time, often in a jumbled or disguised form. World News --------------- [W 1]****** uk.ufo.nw says: We are not sure exactly where this article came from however we think you will find it interesting. A www page on Ralph Rene and his book 'Nasa Mooned America' can be found at url: http://www.primeline-america.com/moon-ldg/mlh2.htm Cover Story Did man really walk on the Moon or was it the ultimate camera trick, asks David Milne? The greater lunar lie In the early hours of May 16, 1990, after a week spent watching old video footage of man on the Moon, a thought was turning into an obsession in the mind of Ralph Rene. "How can the flag be fluttering," the 47 year old American kept asking himself, "when there's no wind on the atmosphere free Moon?" That moment was to be the beginning of an incredible Space odyssey for the self- taught engineer from New Jersey. He started investigating the Apollo Moon landings, scouring every Nasa film, photo and report with a growing sense of wonder, until finally reaching an awesome conclusion: America had never put a man on the Moon. The giant leap for mankind was fake. It is of course the conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories. But Rene has now put all his findings into a startling book entitled Nasa Mooned America. Published by himself, it's being sold by mail order - and is a compelling read. The story lifts off in 1961 with Russia firing Yuri Gagarin into space, leaving a panicked America trailing in the space race. At an emergency meeting of Congress, President Kennedy proposed the ultimate face saver, put a man on the Moon. With an impassioned speech he secured the plan an unbelievable 40 billion dollars. And so, says Rene (and a growing number of astro-physicists are beginning to agree with him), the great Moon hoax was born. Between 1969 and 1972, seven Apollo ships headed to the Moon. Six claim to have made it, with the ill fated Apollo 13 - whose oxygen tanks apparently exploded halfway - being the only casualties. But with the exception of the known rocks, which could have been easily mocked up in a lab, the photographs and film footage are the only proof that the Eagle ever landed. And Rene believes theyr're fake. For a start, he says, the TV footage was hopeless. The world tuned in to watch what looked like two blurred white ghosts gambol threw rocks and dust. Part of the reason for the low quality was that, strangely, Nasa provided no direct link up. So networks actually had to film "man's greatest achievement" from a TV screen in Houston - a deliberate ploy, says Rene, so that nobody could properly examine it. By contrast, the still photos were stunning. Yet that's just the problem. The astronauts took thousands of pictures, each one perfectly exposed and sharply focused. Not one was badly composed or even blurred. As Rene points out, that's not all: - The cameras had no white metres or view ponders. So the astronauts achieved this feet without being able to see what they were doing. - There film stock was unaffected by the intense peaks and powerful cosmic radiation on the Moon, conditions that should have made it useless. McGrath - They managed to adjust their cameras, change film and swap filters in pressurised clubs. It should have been almost impossible to end their fingers. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 {78} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:43:51 -0400 Subject: {78} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' July 23rd, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 78 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {78} part 1 or part 2 -[continued]- Award winning British photographer David passer is convinced the pictures are fake. His astonishing findings are explained alongside the pictures on these pages, but the basic points are as follows: - The shadows could only have been created with multiple light sources and, in particular, powerful spotlights. But the only light sauce on the Moon was the sun. - The American flag and the words "United States" are always brightly lit, even when everything around is in shadow. - Not one still picture matches the film footage, yet Nasa claims both were shot at the same time. - The pictures are so perfect, each one would have taken a slick advertising agency hours to put them together. But the astronauts managed it repeatedly. David Persey believes the mistakes were deliberate, left there by "whistle blowers", who were keen for the truth to one day get out. If Persey is right and the pictures are fake, then we've only Nasa's word that man ever went to the Moon. And, asks Rene, why would anyone fake pictures of an event that actually happened? The questions don't stop there. Outer space is awash with deadly radiation that emanates from solar flares firing out from the sun. Standard astronauts orbiting earth in near space, like those who recently fixed the Hubble telescope, are protected by the earth's Van Allen belt. But the Moon is to 240,000 miles distant, way outside this safe band. And, during the Apollo flights, astronomical data shows there were no less than 1,485 such flares. John Mauldin, a physicist who works for Nasa, once said shielding at least two metres thick would be needed. Yet the walls of the Lunar Landers which took astronauts from the spaceship to the moons surface were, said Nasa, "about the thickness of heavy duty aluminium foil". How could that stop this deadly radiation? And if the astronauts were protected by their space suits, why didn't rescue workers use such protective gear at the Chernobyl meltdown, which released only a fraction of the dose astronauts would encounter? Not one Apollo astronaut ever contracted cancer - not even the Apollo 16 crew who were on their way to the Moon when a big flare started. "They should have been fried," says Rene. Furthermore, every Apollo mission before number 11 (the first to the Moon) was plagued with around 20,000 defects a-piece. Yet, with the exception of Apollo 13, Nasa claims there wasn't one major technical problem on any of their Moon missions. Just one effect could have blown the whole thing. "The odds against these are so unlikely that God must have been the co-pilot," says Rene. Several years after Nasa claimed its first Moon landing, Buzz Aldrin - "the second man on the Moon" - was asked at a banquet what it felt like to step on to the lunar surface. Aldrin staggered to his feet and left the room crying uncontrollably. It would not be the last time he did this. "It strikes me he's suffering from trying to live out a very big lie," says Rene. Aldrin may also fear for his life. Virgil Grissom, a Nasa astronaut who baited the Apollo programme, was due to pilot Apollo 1 as part of the landings build up. In January 1967, he hung a lemon on his Apollo capsule (in the US, unroadworthy cars are called lemons) and told his wife Betty: "if there is ever a serious accident in the space programme, it's likely to be me." Nobody knows what fuelled his fears, but by the end of the month he and his two co- pilots were dead, burnt to death during a test run when their capsule, pumped full of high pressure pure oxygen, exploded. Scientists couldn't believe Nasa's carelessness - even a chemistry students in high school knows high pressure oxygen is extremely explosive. In fact, before the first manned Apollo fight even cleared the launch pad, a total of 11 would be astronauts were dead. Apart from the three who were incinerated, seven died in plane crashes and one in a car smash. Now this is a spectacular accident rate. "One wonders if these 'accidents' weren't Nasa's way of correcting mistakes," says Rene. "Of saying that some of these men didn't have the sort of 'right stuff' they were looking for." Nasa wont respond to any of these claims, their press office will only say that the Moon landings happened and the pictures are real. But a Nasa public affairs officer called Julian Scheer once delighted 200 guests at a private party with footage of astronauts apparently on a landscape. It had been made on a mission film set and was identical to what Nasa claimed was they real lunar landscape. "The purpose of this film," Scheer told the enthralled group, "is to indicate that you really can fake things on the ground, almost to the point of deception." He then invited his audience to "come to your own decision about whether or not man actually did walk on the Moon". A sudden attack of honesty? You bet, says Rene, who claims the only real thing about the Apollo missions were the lift offs. The astronauts simply have to be on board, he says, in case the rocket exploded. "It was the easiest way to ensure Nasa wasn't left with three astronauts who ought to be dead," he claims, adding that they came down a day or so later, out of the public eye (global surveillance wasn't what it is now) and into the safe hands of Nasa officials, who whisked them off to prepare for the big day a week later. And now Nasa is planning another giant step - project Outreach, a 1 trillion dollar manned mission to Mars. "Think what they'll be able to mock up with today's computer graphics," says Rene Chillingly. "Special effects was in its infancy in the 60s. This time round will have no way of determining the truth." Space oddities - Apollo 14 astronaut Allen Shepard played golf on the Moon. In front of a worldwide TV audience, Mission Control teased him about slicing the ball to the right. Yet a slice is caused by uneven air flow over the ball. The Moon has no atmosphere and no air. - A camera panned upwards to catch Apollo 16's Lunar Lander lifting off the Moon. Who did the filming? - One Nasa picture from Apollo 11 is looking up at Neil Armstrong about to take his giant step for mankind. The photographer must have been lying on the planet surface. If Armstrong was the first man on the Moon, then who took the shot? The pressure inside a space suit was greater than inside a football. The astronauts should have been puffed out like the Michelin Man, but were seen freely bending their joints. - The Moon landings took place during the Cold War. Why didn't America make a signal on the move that could be seen from earth? The PR would have been phenomenal and it could have been easily done with magnesium flares. Text from pictures in the article Only two men walked on the Moon during the Apollo 12 mission. Yet the astronaut reflected in the visor has no camera. Who took the shot? The flags shadow goes behind the rock so doesn't match the dark line in the foreground, which looks like a line cord. So the shadow to the lower right of the spaceman must be the flag. Where is his shadow? And why is the flag fluttering? How can the flag be brightly lit when its side on to the light? And where, in all of these shots, are the stars? The Lander weighed 17 tons yet the astronauts feet seem to have made a bigger dent in the dust. The powerful booster rocket at the base of the Lunar Lander was fired to slow descent to the moons service. Yet it has left no traces of blasting on the dust underneath. It should have created a small crater, yet the booster looks like it's never been fired. [W 2]****** Source: Teletext World News Date: Thursday 10th June 1997 Estonia. Startled customs officers near the Russian border seized a car after finding that it and its occupants were radioactive. [W 3]****** Source: Teletext Date: 5 July 1997 People have been enjoying an extra special moment after scientists added a second to the clocks. Time came to a brief "standstill" at 1 am on Tuesday to allow atomic clocks which keep the earth's official time to be re-synchronised with astronomical time. "The earth has been running too slowly" explained Martine Feissel, boss of the International Earth Rotation Service. [W 4]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: 13 July 1997 UFO link as cows are mutilated By Murray Davies The dead cow was lying in the middle of a perfect circle in a field. It's head was twisted up in the air with the bottom jaw and tongue cut out. The sex organs had been removed and the naval cut out in a circle. But despite all that there was no blood on the ground or the animal. "People have been reporting UFOs in the area," said Sheriff C J Richards, of Cochron County, Texas, after finding the carcass in March 1975. "They all tell the same story. "The spacecraft is the width of a two lane highway. Its round and looks like the colour of the sun with a blue glow around it. "When people see this thing, two or three days later we hear about mutilated cows." This is just one of a string of unexplained animal mutilations in the southern states of America stretching back to 1967. They continue even to the present day. Local people dismiss government claims that the wounds were caused by wild animals. "If it is predators, then we have predators with super powers," said New Mexico police officer Gabe Valdez. "It is hard to believe predators can pull a steers heart out through a small hole in his neck. And I have seen that." The incisions display advanced medical knowledge. A clue to the reason for the mystery was given by Judy Doraty, who witnessed an animal mutilation. Under hypnosis it was revealed that she was abducted late one evening in May 1973 while she was driving home from playing bingo in Houston, Texas. She saw a light in the sky. A carf was being drawn up in a beam. She was taken into the spacecraft where aliens told her they were stationed on earth and were working for the betterment of mankind which was destroying itself through pollution. They were studying the reproductive system of animals to find the extent of contamination. It was only in the Eighties that scientists began to discover that humans and cattle share many genetic similarities. Adapted from Alien Agenda: The Untold Story Of The Extraterrestrials Among Us by Jim Marrs (Published by Harper - Collins at 16 pounds 99 pence). [W 5]****** Source: The Express On Sunday newspaper Date: 13 July 1997 Did rats from space down TWA Flight 800? By Charles Oulton Science Correspondent A freak accident involving a canister of rats launched from space may have caused last year's TWA crash off the coast of New York, killing all 230 passengers and crew. The latest, and most bizarre, theory to be examined by accident investigators claims the container - travelling towards earth at 800 mph - punctured the aircraft's central fuel tank, causing an explosion. The FBI found no evidence to support its theory that a bomb caused the crash and eventually concluded that mechanical failure had caused the fuel tank to explode after a build up of vapour. However, no one has explained how the vapour or gas was ignited - and that is where the canister takes on it intriguing significance. The Space Shuttle Columbia launched a capsule containing the canister before it returned to earth on July 7 last year after a record 17 day mission. Scientists hoped to examine the animals to test the impacts of space travel on bone marrow. When the capsule re-entered the earth's atmosphere, it was blasted open by rockets to release the canister which was fitted with a parachute. A US C130 Hercules trailed a giant net to catch the canister at 30,000ft. But the parachute failed to open, putting the canister on a collision course witTWA Flight 800, which had taken off from John F Kennedy airport for Paris 9 minutes earlier. The canister is said to have hit the aircrafts fuselarge at 13,700ft, puncturing the near empty central fuel tank which then exploded. Seconds later, the Boeing 747 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, watched by horrified onlookers on the shores of nearby Long Island. It was the second worse crash in American aviation history. The new theory could explain a photograph taken by Linda Kabot, showing a mysterious, cylindrical object which seemed to be heading south west towards the aircraft. The FBI interviewed Mrs Kabot and her husband several times and plotted a possible trajectory for the object. Although they eventually dismissed the evidence, they instructed the Kabot's not to talk about it. The canister theory could also explain radar pictures which also revealed an object resembling a missile speeding towards the aircraft. Although the Pentagon confirmed the jet crashed near an area some times used for "air combat exercises", few people believe that it was brought down by a missile fired from the sea. A Nasa spokeswoman said: "we had nothing to do with TWA." As rumours of the new lead circulated, a senior source close to the investigation claimed there had been a cover-up because of the severe embarrassment it would cause. "This is a scandal being hushed up. No one has admitted losing this canister because it would anger the animal rights lobby. But if the aircraft was brought down by this canister, the truth should be told." --- The growing peril of rubbish plunging to Earth Space debris from rockets and satellites has been falling to earth for many years, posing an increasing risk to aircraft. Almost every month, pilots report sightings of space objects, with canisters being the most regular hazards. Although many fall safely in the sea, some land in built up areas, and tracking technology is still not advanced enough to give sufficient warning. The seriousness of the position was recognised as early as 1964 when the international space treaty guranteed compensation for anyone hit by objects from space. There have been several payouts, notably by Russia to Canadian trappers after a radioactive satellite fell on their land in the Seventies. Part of the US Skylab fell into the Australian desert in 1979, and a booster rocket system nearly hit an Air India flight in 1985. The aircraft blew up, probably as the results of a bomb. The chief accident investigator said the rocket had not caused the crash. But he added: "it is going to happen sometime." [W 6]****** Source: Dreamland (the TV documentary on Area 51) Note: Is this just one reason people are afraid to come forward with information. OATH UPON INADVERTENT EXPOSURE TO CLASSIFIED SECURITY DATA OR INFORMATION I fully understand that my inadvertent exposure to classified security data or information relative to the United States subjects me to the provisions of Title 18, sections 793 - 798 of the United States Code, inclusive, and, if I am subject to military jurisdiction, provisions of the uniform code of military justice. I am aware that the punishment for certain of the above references statutes can be imprisonment for any term of years or for life. I'm do therefore solemnly swear or affirm that I shall never, divulge, publish, or reveal, either by word, conduct, or any other means, the content of substance of the classified security data or information of which I have become aware. Only written official notice of specific authorisation will release me from this obligation. I further understand that no change in my assignment, employment, residence, or citizenship will ever relieve me of my responsibilities under this oath, except as defined above. Signature of witness Date Title/Organization Name (printed)/SSAN A year ago this month --------------------------- (58-W11) 1-7-96 : Poll: 49% believe there is a government cover-up. (59-W13) 7-7-96 : Independence Day will limit enthusiasts credibility. (59-W12) 7-7-96 : US - The budget you can't see. (58-W4) 8-7-96 : Independence Day the film. (59-W3) 8-7-96 : ID again. (58-W12) 9-7-96 : ET's will be contacted with 10-20 years. (59-W2) 9-7-96 : It's not a question of 'if' we get a call from ET, but 'when'. (59-W1) 11-7-96 : Independence Day - Good News, Bad Movie. (59-W11) 12-7-96 : Middletown police duluged with calls about UFO. It was a distress flare. (59-W5) 17-7-96 : Nevada promotes state route 375, 'The ET Highway'. (59-W6) 19-7-96 : Jupiter's Moon, Europa, may have a sea of life. (59-W7) 19-7-96 : NASA plan return to Mars. (59-W8) 21-7-96 : ET's are already here. Truth is stranger than Fiction. (59-W10) 24-7-96 : Kazakh air defence spots 2nd UFO over capital this month. ****** United Kingdom UFO Network would like to thank Lynne Bishop and Bookfinder Publishing for permission to serialise 'A Fearful Symmetry' Readers may like to visit the web sites of both Lynne and Bookfinder Publishing at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3862/ http://www.bookfinder.simplenet.com --- A FEARFUL SYMMETRY A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES By D. Lynne Bishop Foreword by John S. Carpenter A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a reviewer who may quote brief passages. First Printing September 1995 Printed in the United States of America BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS This book could not have been written without the assistance and support of several people. John Carpenter's freely given and tireless efforts to assist me and my family in finding answers to an overwhelming mystery can never be repaid. Without his words of encouragement along the way, the outcome would have been far different. I also want to thank his assistant, Ann Bayliff, whose kind words and sense of humor always helped put things into perspective. In this fast-paced, technological world we inhabit, we too often forget the healing power of a human gesture. At the lowest point in my search for answers last year, one gentleman with clear insight and human compassion reached out to me, and turned my life around. That gentleman was Budd Hopkins, and the memory of his hug at a time when I needed it most will remain with me always. Budd, I can never thank you enough for your compassionate, human gesture. I also owe a debt of gratitude to two groups in Springfield, Missouri and Little Rock, Arkansas. The support and understanding offered by many individuals was of inestimable value, and I appreciate all of you more than words can say. I particularly want to thank Lucius Farish and Kandy Turner in Little Rock, and Tom Strand and Susan and Duane Bedell in Springfield, Missouri. I thank Jack and Mary, our close friends, for listening to me without judging, and for being there throughout the last year. Friendships such as that are rare, indeed. I also wish to thank my friend and co-worker, Linda, for believing me, and for helping me get over the post-abduction "blues." My family is, and always will be, one of the most important facets of my life. I love you all, and if I had the adventure to live over, I would still want to relive it with each of you. And to my husband-- if we have more than one life to live, I hope to live them all with you. THIS BOOK IS DEDICATED TO THE FOLLOWING: To the aliens, whatever they are. Without them, there would have been no need to write this book. To the brave souls who have risked their reputations and livelihood to search for answers to the mystery. And to the intrepid human being who someday finds the answer to the most profound mystery the human race has ever encountered. I know you're out there somewhere A NOTE TO THE READER: The people and events depicted in this book are real. Due to the sensitive nature of the events recounted within, pseudonyms have been used throughout, except in the case of well-known personages. FOREWORD Twenty years had passed. The memory of many events had been dulled by the passage of time and accumulation of new experiences. Except one in particular. One nagging peculiar event in which Lynne and her mother lost over an hour of time together in a mysterious shared period of amnesia while driving a familiar route to their home. Although medically unlikely, they lost and regained conscious awareness at the same moment. They found themselves going the wrong way on an entirely different and unfamiliar road. Neither could explain how they had driven to this area without either of them knowing it. No explanation offered to them had ever been satisfactory. If it had not been for their brief observation of a strange silver "airplane" with no wings, no tail, and no windows, they probably never would have made any connection with the subject of UFO's. Daughter Lynne was not looking for an exotic experience or an upheaval in her life. It had not been the only unusual experience in the background of her family, but Lynne always attempted to find sensible explanations. She just wanted to unlock this period of missing time so that the logical explanation for their experience could finally be learned and understood. She knew practically nothing about UFO abductions. Her mother did not even want to know anything about such a bizarre subject and certainly had no interest in any hypnosis sessions. What they finally learned "explained" what apparently took place during their amnesia, but was an amazing and unexpected tale of an encounter with other-worldly beings which they described independently with incredible similarity in details and feelings. When an alleged UFO abduction contains multiple participants, the potential for understanding the phenomenon greatly increases because one is no longer dealing with a recalled experience just from within the boundaries of one individual's mind. With two or more persons involved, the likelihood of a shared hallucination or delusion greatly diminishes. Specific matching details provide much difficulty for explanations of confabulation and fantasy. Innocently fabricated "false memories" or psychological representations of repressed sexual trauma would fail to account for the independently reported scenarios which match each other. If repressed sexual trauma were the source for an individual's claims, then the resulting creation would be an intricate and symbolic tapestry of that individual's personality, history, psychodynamics, life experiences, and perspective -- not an account matching with great accuracy to another person's private recollections. If these reports are hoaxes, then one could expect the incidents to be recalled with identical details and very few or no differences or changes. However, people recalling simultaneous UFO abductions tend to report a set of experiences that contain an overlapping and correlating subset. No two persons are able to share reality in exactly the same manner due to differences in attention, perception, interpretation, and emotional predisposition. Responses under hypnosis fail to show evidence of suggestibility or any inclination toward being led to more sensible answers. Instead, these subjects -- as have many others -- arrive at bizarre responses which unknowingly match both published and even unpublished data of which neither subject could possibly have been aware. The stories are experienced as real and told from two different human perspectives with language and emotions congruent with a genuine yet unsettling encounter with something quite beyond the normal routines of these persons. Their psychological responses are predictably upset -- a normal reaction to such bizarre beings and odd circumstances. Experience within these pages the integrity, intelligence, humbleness, and courage of this family as Lynne bravely reveals her family's encounters with the unknown. I have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated their strength and determination to find the truth in their lives -- no matter what incredible paths they needed to explore. Open your mind to the possibilities and humbling awareness that we are not alone. John S. Carpenter, MSW / LCSW, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Psychiatric Hypnotherapist, Director of Abduction Research, Mutual UFO Network INTRODUCTION Little did I realize on that fateful day in February of 1992 that I was embarking on a journey of discovery that would forever alter the world in which I lived and my perception of reality. With one small step, I entered a "Forbidden Zone" of "missing time," alien abduction, and potential genetic experimentation--a world inhabited by UFOs and their occupants. What follows is a chronology of over a year in that journey. My fellow travelers include my spouse, family members, friends, and co-workers--for I discovered that the phenomenon was not limited only to my experiences, but had also invaded the lives of those I love and care about. This is a true story of alien intrusion into human lives. But, even more than that, it is a story of human dignity and the ability to achieve victory over adversity, regardless of the form that adversity may take. ---D.L.B. Vivaldi CHAPTER ONE In early February 1992, my eyes were drawn to a book on one of the shelves at a local bookstore. In large, bold type, the title proclaimed Missing Time. Written by Budd Hopkins, it purported to contain stories of persons who had experienced a peculiar form of amnesia relating to missing periods of time, and associated these amnesiac periods with possible alien abductions. Because my mother (Frances Meadows) and I had shared a "missing time" experience twenty years prior to that, I purchased the book, thinking that perhaps it might contain some interesting and unusual ideas. I was hardly prepared for the shocking revelations within the book. The similarities of those stories to the experience we had shared in 1972 convinced me that I should attempt to contact Mr. Hopkins in the hopes of obtaining additional information. On February 23, 1992, I composed and mailed a letter to Mr. Hopkins, outlining the unusual event that had occurred, and requested any possible assistance in determining what might have happened to my mother and me on a springlike day twenty years before. Several weeks passed after I mailed the letter, and realizing that it could be a lengthy interval before possibly receiving an answer, I decided to pursue some other avenues that might give me the insight I was seeking. My husband Kevin and I and a few other family members had attended a public meeting of a UFO Discussion Group located in Little Rock, Arkansas, in early February, and while there I was told about John Carpenter, the Mutual UFO Network's (MUFON) Director for Abduction Research. Upon contacting him by telephone, we found he would be hosting a public lecture in Springfield, Missouri, on March 14. This appeared to be an excellent opportunity to meet him, so we attended the lecture, and following its adjournment, found he would be attending the annual UFO Conference in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, in a couple weeks. Several of my family members, my husband, and I decided to attend the Conference, also. While there, we spoke with John casually regarding my possible shared amnesiac experience. He indicated an interest in additional information, and requested that my mother and I send this information to him separately, in order to avoid possible contamination of our memories. We complied with his cautions, and mailed the additional data to him in early April. After a thorough review of the information, he informed us that if we wanted to pursue answers, he would assist us through use of hypnotic regression. The first session was set for April 25, and as a precautionary measure against possible contamination, we agreed that my session and my mother's would be independent of each other's. As I awaited the arrival of the 25th, I struggled inwardly with the knowledge that the journey I was undertaking could forever change my perceptions of life and reality, and struggled outwardly to maintain a calm I wasn't feeling. I scarcely could believe myself that aliens were abducting human beings and subjecting them to intrusive physical and mental manipulation. Yet here I was, about to embark on a path that would force my husband, family, and friends to take a quantum leap of faith with me. The outcome of that first session would affect not only my life, but also the lives of those around me. I wasn't even sure I had the right to involve others in my search for answers, but by virtue of their relationship to me, they were going to be involved, regardless. I spent a restless night thinking about the many implications. The morning of April 25 dawned sunny and bright, and I wore the forecast of a cloudless day like a talisman, certain that this was an omen of good tidings to come. My husband and I made the trip to Springfield, Missouri, by automobile, and met John Carpenter and Ann, his assistant, at her private office located within a multi-story brick complex comprised of professional suites, with an interior courtyard. Ann's easy-going personality and sense of humor immediately helped put me at ease as we entered her office. Following a short, informal conference with each other, I was hypnotically regressed to the point in time, twenty years ago, when something bizarre occurred in my life that resulted in an hour of "missing time," in which events had occurred that were so traumatic to my psyche that either I, or some external force, had created an amnesia that lasted twenty years. [to be continued next issue] --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. If you are using at least one of the following web browers: Netscape 3 ++ MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ Simply visit one of the below url's (world wide web) addresses. When the 'ultrachat' page has loaded you will see a large grey filled box somewhere on the screen. It may then take a few more seconds for the java script to load and run. The grey area will then turn white and you will be asked to enter a nickname. Your own name or a nickname will suffice here. Once you press return you will be presented with various bits of information scrolling up the screen. After a few seconds you will be connected to the uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel. Down the right hand side of the screen you will see a list of the people currently on channel. At the bottom of the screen is where you type your messages. The large upper left section of the screen is were you read and follow the proceedings of the meetings. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.elector.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm http://razorsedge.dyndns.com/~lwelch The uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visit the channel at any time. There is usually someone there to talk to. For those of you needing help connecting with dedicated irc programs such as the excellent MIRC send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. If you have problems you may also subscribe by sending mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section of your mail type: SUBSCRIBE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:55:50 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:19:19 -0400 Subject: Re: To Any NASA Employee/Contractor: NASA Life >Date: 22 Jul 97 12:11:16 EDT >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: NASA Life Protocol >Are we still under the "advice" of the '50's committees? Who does the >NASA Global Surveyor project director call when he finds "Eat at Xzf's" >plastered across the forehead of the Cydonian Countenance? Would the >release of the evidence be under NASA's control or is it someone else's >decision? If we find graffiti on Mars as you described, you might hear a few "wows" and likely alot of giggles. Hopefully, it will open dialog on the past possible civilization of Mars likely millions of years ago. But, I don't think any scientist is concerned with protocol of life on Mars millions of years ago and they probably don't anticipate seeing 6ft blonde babes on Mars today either. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:55:57 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:20:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:54:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Santilli Had Jeffrey 'Pegged'/Roswell Initiative >In other words, these arguments by Kent are without >merit and mean nothing in the larger sense. Nothing >presented by Kent was of sufficient importance for us >to conclude that Roswell was a Mogul Balloon. Excellent post! It's nice to see others that also see through debunkery. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? From: gregmcd@cstone.net (Greg McDavitt) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:56:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:23:23 -0400 Subject: Re: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 03:54:59 +0100 >To: reaw@dnet.net >From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> >Subject: THE OLIVER'S CASTLE CONTROVERSY EXPOSED Mark, thank you very much for this report which includes the statement by Lee Winterson.<S> These hoaxes strongly destroy the credibility of Ufology. It is frustrating that events such as this take place when so many well intentioned and honest folks put a great deal of their time and money into discovering the truth. Reputations are constantly being built but easily destroyed in an instant. Always resulting in some degree of permanent loss. Regards, Greg McDavitt - Sysop Project: Watchfire http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire news://msnnews.msn.com/msn.onstage.watchfire.bbs ~~Keep Watchin' the Skies~~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Crop Circle Connector #33 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:59:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:25:58 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #33 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #33 Members = 1712 Update on The Crop Circle Connector on th What`s New page. http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Thursday 24th July 1997 ******************************************************************** THE OLIVER'S CASTLE CONTROVERSY EXPOSED. In the Barge Inn, Wiltshire, England, on Tuesday July 22nd1997, Peter Sorenson, and Lee Winterson. ******************************************************************** Statement given to Colin Andrews (CPR International) by Lee Winterston 22nd July 1997. IMPORTANT CONCLUSIONS TO OLIVER'S CASTLE VIDEO INVESTIGATION NIPPON TELEVISION WORKING WITH LEE WINTERSTON .CONFIRM COLIN ANDREWS FINDINGS. OLIVER'S CASTLE UFO/CROP CIRCLES VIDEO IS A FRAUD. JOHN WABE IS EXPOSED - IT WAS MADE TO FOOL THE WORLD. *********************************************************************** An Actual Transcript from a Live Video at Barge during the Statement. Transcibled by two dear Friends Adrain and Bex *********************************************************************** Well that`s enough of silly little badly made video films So Tommorrow we return to report on several new major formation with the latest images by Steve Alexander. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: USAF "Case Closed" From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:09:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:28:28 -0400 Subject: Re: USAF "Case Closed" > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:07:16 +0930 > From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: USAF "Case Closed" - Idea. > G'day all, > Not being a US citizen, I doubt that I would be able to > accomplish the following suggestion, so I put it forward > in the hope that one of the list members may have the > requisite knowledge of how to go about such a process, > and the will to follow it up. > If one was to apply under the FOIA for an Audit or > copy of the Audit Trail from the preparation of the > Roswell "Case Closed" report by the USAF, would this > not show how truthful and thorough the investigation > conducted was? This is of course assuming that the > audit itself was not adulterated in any way, and, if > the government and USAF have nothing to hide, what > have they to fear from such an enquiry? Mike, An audits have audits and ad infinitum. There is a more basic problem here - the source of the information has low credibility and is likely part of a counterintelligence operation anyway. What can an audit realistically hope to achieve? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 UFOSearch # 9 - Science, Counterintelligence and From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:30:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:31:59 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch # 9 - Science, Counterintelligence and This is the ninth in the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFO UpDates. Commentary: After the hoopla and revelations, treachery and deceit surrounding the anniversary of the "Roswell Incident" perhaps it's time to step back and reassess our approach to the study of the UFO phenomenon. "UFOs, Science and Counterintelligence" offers a charming melange of topics for our consideration. It is with particular pleasure that I post this ninth UFOSearch essay to UFO UpDates. This essay, "Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs" has not been published previously and makes its debut here. This will be a four-part essay. I believe that this essay will mark a watershed in writing on the UFO phenomenon and I hope that it will be followed by a other new expositions and perhaps a a book. Personally I was disappointed by one of the recent book releases of which I had great expectations, Jim Marr's "Alien Agenda". Just as the topics and issues he was exploring got interesting his book came to a close, perhaps his advance ran out? Well I don't think you will be disappointed here as the author treads where most writers on the UFO phenomenon don't dare. Gary Alevy NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Abstract The "UFO" and the issues surrounding it have become extremely important today, for at least four reasons: 1) The "UFO" is now a mass phenomenon, known to hundreds of millions of people around the world and the subject of significant business activity in the form of motion pictures, television and books; 2) Many people, some with excellent credentials, some quite wealthy, have gone beyond simple "interest" and have joined with others in "UFO organizations" or have begun their own research; 3) The "UFO" has generated a great deal of government interest, most of it negative in nature, that is, opposing the "extra-terrestrial" hypothesis and downgrading the importance of UFO sightings; 4)There is, however, significant evidence to suggest that the "UFO" is the product of another, non-human, intelligence operating on Earth with humanity. After a discussion of the first three items above the fourth one will be selected for particular attention. If UFOs are assumed to be the products of another intelligence then the "scientific model," held up as the ideal by many involved in the study of the "UFO," is not sufficient for that study and "counterintelligence" should be added to the model we use. The paper will conclude with a counterintelligence analysis of much extant UFO evidence and then go on to generate possible scenarios from that analysis. The scenarios are then rated as to their plausibility, using the rules of counterintelligence. Reference numbers in the text, example, "[1]", refer to notes that will appear at the end of the paper. These notes will contain both references and a discussion of those references. Introduction If there is any one constant in UFO research it is the never-ending call for ufology to become more scientific. Over and over again those of us investigating the phenomenon are urged to seek the hard, scientific proof that will once and for all establish UFOs in the world of mainstream science. The assumption behind all of this is that the best way to study UFOs is through science and the scientific method. But is this assumption correct? I maintain that it is not always correct and I state this even though I am involved in the sciences myself and have a great love for science and great respect for many scientists. But the truth is that science and the scientific method are dependent on certain assumptions that may not apply to the study of UFOs, especially if they are in fact the products of another intelligence. The scientific method demands repeatability of either observation or experiment. Science assumes the universe is objective, in effect a gigantic mechanism operating with total consistency over vast stretches of time and space. Science also assumes that the only active intelligences operating in the universe are scientists themselves and so scientific experiments and observations can, if rigorous enough, be termed proof. [1] All of the above implies control (of observation or experiment) on the part of the observer or experimenter, and blind obedience to totally consistent laws on the part of the phenomena observed or experimented upon. These are the bedrock assumptions upon which all physical science is based. However, the plain fact is that if UFOs are under the control of another intelligence then these assumptions can very often be null and void. This does not mean that science and technology are of little or no use in investigating UFOs, not at all. But it does mean that the assumptions of science are not always relevant where UFOs are concerned. And it also means that efforts to make the assumptions of science the sole rubric for UFO research could doom all of that research to eventual failure. Finally, it means that there may never be available any so-called "proof" in the UFO arena. All we may ever have is "evidence." Thus it is my position that since we may be dealing with another intelligence in studying the UFO, we should consider adding the counterintelligence model to our intellectual arsenals. It costs nothing to do this and the benefits might include the clarification of many issues that have been quite baffling in the past. The Importance Of UFOs Today The constellation of phenomena revolving around the UFO have become quite important today. Millions of people are interested in the subject and over the last half-century mass entertainment has gone to the well of the "UFO" or "aliens" over and over again. In the mid-1990s this has reached what might be an all-time high as ultra-expensive Hollywood movies have depicted invasions by alien beings who wreaked havoc on our planet before being defeated. At the same time, both television and film have featured the "UFO abduction" and this element of the phenomenon is now to be seen in comic strips and even in political cartoonery. This is important because one effect of consideration of the UFO is collateral consideration of the human condition, particularly the situation of the one performing the consideration. That is, the study of the UFO can change a person, especially one who is serious about the study and also serious-minded. The advent of "aliens" from off-planet, another "dimension" or wherever would be a huge watershed in human history, huge in ways that we have no way to truly anticipate. It is this aspect that gives some of those who investigate UFOs serious pause about the future, so great do the uncertainties seem. Others, viewing the evidence differently, see only benefits accruing from the arrival of "others" from beyond. Involved with the UFO today are thousands of people, most of whom are not "serious-minded" but are nonetheless interested in the phenomenon. This is true of many "hot subjects" in our world today and is to be expected. What is interesting about the 1990s is that the UFO has appeared to rapidly move up the social ladder and now very wealthy people are spending their money, and large amounts of it, in public, in the UFO arena. Why should this be? Well, one particular twist to the UFO situation is that the subject is entangled with other very important human considerations. That is, the UFO is associated with "space" and its technology as well as the possible human future there; it is associated with the possible arrival on Earth of another "civilization" and what that might mean to us all; it is associated with "the future" in general, which is of obvious importance and, finally, because of the magnitude of some elements of the UFO and our government's involvement with same, the UFO is associated with a growing mistrust of all of our institutions, including the government. As you can see, this is no trivial list, all the items of some importance and all of them tending to make one THINK about the future -- and one's position in that future. One possible result of the above could be a change in the way a person thinks and feels about his own HUMAN condition and how that condition came to be. Such considerations, potentially affecting millions of people as the "UFO" becomes more and more of a mainstream phenomenon, cannot go unnoticed by those at the top our human power structure. Finally, as mentioned before, there is the strong possibilty, supported by very significant evidence, that the UFO and the phenomena around it are the products of another intelligence, one operating on Earth with us today. It is this aspect of the UFO, and the study of that aspect, that is the primary subject of this paper, though the other elements are important and will not be ignored as we move through our discussion. The Case For Another Intelligence I maintain that any respectable study of the available evidence will show that there is ample reason to consider that another intelligence is operating on the Earth today. The literature is replete with examples and I will be citing some soon. Because I am a witness to a UFO (40+ years ago) I will be selecting incidents that are important to me, either because they resemble what I saw as a child or because I have received, first hand, a similiar account. As a researcher I have an affinity for accounts that have been taken from a reputable journal and are so strange that "ordinary" objects or processes are simply ruled out from the start. Two such are discussed in one of my favorite books, Aime Michel's THE TRUTH ABOUT FLYING SAUCERS, (1956). [2] On page 26 begins an account of an enormous shadow that appeared in a thin overcast at Fort Worth, Texas, in 1913, reported in the MONTHLY WEATHER REVIEW. The shadow began as a small dark circle but then quickly expanded to considerable size, holding its position as the clouds moved with the wind. After a time the shadow began to shrink in size and in a few moments it was gone the same way it had come. As Michel says, what else can it have been but a "vehicle" of some sort, descending from a great height to just above the clouds, stopping for some time at a fixed altitude, and then ascending back to the great height from which it had come? The year, 1913, rules out a whole group of explanations and the fact that it was able to hold its position against the wind rules out a few more. The conclusion is all but forced. This is important to me because a similiar thing was reported by a friend of mine, except what he saw was a huge, bright, lighted area moving swiftly in a thick overcast. There was no sound, no meteor reported, and the light was very, very bright. Another account from Michel concerns a French meteorologist who was part of a garrison at Adar-En-Abnet, in the heart of the Sahara. It was early April, 1942, when one morning someone pointed out what looked like a small aluminum speck in the sky. Very soon a small telescope was put into play and forty men observed something that looked like "a small moon" with "a pale metallic glint." It appeared to be rotating slowly, once in every two-and-a-half hours. They watched it off and on all day. The next morning, it was still there, "immediately overhead," and it stayed all of that day! On the morning of the third day it was gone. My readers are invited to speculate on what this might have been, in the middle of a remote desert during World War II. Long ago, when I was in junior high school and on the football team, at practice, I watched several "aluminum specks" hold their position in the sky to the east of my hometown of Carrollton, Missouri. The year was 1962 and I, and others, watched them for at least half an hour as they just sat, still, seemingly at a terrific altitude. Then one moment we looked and they were gone, nowhere to be seen. Moving back, to 1951, let's examine a series of incidents from Ruppelt's THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFED FLYING OBJECTS. [3] In a report from Kirtland Air Force Base Ruppelt learned that on August 25, 1951, an employee of Sandia Corporation had seen a gigantic "flying wing" from his home. The employee was sitting in his back yard, near Albuquerque, New Mexico, when both he and his wife saw a "gigantic airplane" fly swiftly and silently over their home. The "airplane" was low, about 1,000 feet, and was huge, as large as a B-36, and it was delta-shaped, actually more like a "V", flying point-first. The bottom of the craft seemed to have longitudinal lines on it and the trailing edge had six blue lights attached. The Sandia employee included a sketch of the object and Ruppelt found that he had a high security clearance. This report was confidential and was not made public until Ruppelt's book appeared. Even inside the Air Force only a few people knew about it. This was important because on that same night, and twenty minutes later, began the famous "Lubbock Light" series of episodes, in which several college professors (including one whose last name was Oberg!) saw a formation of lights move silently overhead, on more than one occasion. In early September Ruppelt himself went to Lubbock and interviewed many people who had seen the lights, some of which were similiar to those seen on the back of the "flying wing" by the Sandia employee. Then Ruppelt got a real shock. On his way back to Dayton, on a commercial flight, he happened to wind up seated next to a retired rancher from the Lubbock area, who, after talking to Ruppelt for a bit, told the Air Force officer his story. It seems that about ten minutes before the Lubbock professors saw their lights, this gentleman's wife had seen, from their backyard, a huge airplane without a body and with soft blue lights on the trailing edge. His wife was, the rancher said, "as white as a sheet" just after she saw this object, it was so large and strange. This group of sightings has great import for me because as a child I saw a large, dark, "V-shaped" object fly over my head while I was riding a tricycle on our front sidewalk. I did not see or hear this object coming, rather I suddenly had the urge to look straight up, to the zenith, and there the object was. And it frightened the daylights out of me. I remember looking around for places to hide from this thing and, finding none, I ran into the house and hid. So I understand how the rancher's wife felt! Our next incident is from the much maligned Condon Report [4] and is a perfect example of how that "investigation" was mismanaged. On page 277 of the Bantam paperback edition is "Case 10" of Section IV, in which the principal witness, a NUCLEAR PHYSICIST, and his family had a very frightening experience while driving in their car on vacation in 1966. On a dark, rainy and drizzly night, under a low overcast, they saw a red, pulsating hemisphere, at treetop height, suddenly turn into a brilliant white object that lit up the surrounding terrain like daylight and forced the witnesses to shield their eyes. The physicist immediately stopped his car and made measurements from estimated bearings and distances. Later, after further study, he concluded that the white object was the equivalent of a 500 megawatt source. The Condon "team" (Saunders and Wadsworth) went to the site with the principal witness "and an astronomer friend." A helicopter and a transit were employed, to what effect not specified. Later, the principal witness spent a considerable amount of time and money on his own investigation (obviously NOT impressed with what the Condon team was doing), and ruled out all conventional explanations, at least in his own mind. The Condon Report does not even try to "explain" this case and in the "comment" section lamely states that the witness' estimate of the object's brightness was probably in error. Once again, this incident is of great interest to me because over the last 20 years I have been told of two events of a very similiar nature. In 1973, a General Telephone employee was driving, late at night, about fifteen miles northwest of Columbia, Missouri, when she saw a brilliant orange object lift out of a soybean field near the Missouri River and head upwards and out of sight at great speed. This object lit up the entire river valley as far as the witness could see -- about six miles! Another such incident was told to me in 1989 and only month after it happened. A woman living about twenty miles due west of Columbia observed, at close range (about 50 feet), a brilliant white object which lit up the entire valley in which she lived. Terrified (she had her small son in her vehicle) she drove at high speed out of the valley and, turning around, saw the object change to a large orange disk just before she lost sight of it over a hill. This lady did not return home that night and stayed with relatives until her fear abated. I find these accounts quite persuasive and for my puposes could stop with them. But I must include a report from one of my heroes where UFOs are concerned, Dr. James E. McDonald. In the text he filed with the American Association for the Advancement of Science, in 1969, in conjunction with a speech he gave that year, he includes a powerful investigation of four very interesting Condon cases. We will be concerned with one of them, from Kirtland Air Force Base, in the year 1957. It is truly spectacular. [5] On an overcast and drizzly night in November, two air traffic controllers at Kirtland saw, from the tower, a small, bizarre object come down out of the overcast and "fly" down the main runway. The object slowed quickly and then moved diagonally across the field, at less than 50 feet altitude, before stopping over a restricted B-58 Hustler refueling area. The two controllers got a very good look at this object, through binoculars, and found that it was about the size of an automobile, roughly egg-shaped, and "flying" with its long axis in the vertical position. It made no sound. The object then began moving again, as if its operators were looking for something, before shooting back up into the overcast at amazing speed, faster than any conventional aircraft could have done, according to these two experienced witnesses. This object was tracked on radar for some minutes following this overflight and turned around and came back over Kirtland some minutes later. McDonald found that the "Condon Team," which had included this incident in an incomplete and garbled form, had never located or questioned these two men and had "explained" their sighting as a private plane getting lost on an evening of low visibility, about as laughable an "explanation" one is ever likely to see. I think these incidents will suffice to give the flavor of many, many other similiar ones. If one will go to the trouble to examine this evidence, with an open mind, one not influenced by what others have said about the authors or their works, one cannot help but be impressed. This is what happened to me. Finally, after much consideration, I made the decision that the evidence for another intelligence operating on the Earth was so impressive that not to accept it was tantamount to intellectual dishonesty. That is, I realized that, objectively speaking, there almost had to be another intelligence operating here on Earth. And once this momentous decision was taken, it became paramount to study this intelligence and what it was doing on Earth, if such a thing was possible. It was then that I realized that science was a useful but insufficent tool for this task and that I needed (and it was obvious once it came to me) "counter-intelligence," a "counter" to this other, unknown, intelligence. Notes To Section One [1] For a wonderful exposition on science and how it works see OVERSKILL, Eugene S. Schwartz, Quadrangle Books, 1971, pp. 12-37. The author was a biologist and environmental activist. [2] Aime Michel's THE TRUTH ABOUT FLYING SAUCERS, Criterion Books, 1956, is a favorite of mine. Many intereting European sightings are discussed and Michel publishes a terrific critique of Menzel's first debunking book. The Sahara desert series of sightings begins on page 100. [3] Edward J. Ruppelt's THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, 1956, Doubleday. The events surrounding the Lubbock Lights are described beginning on page 96. This book is a classic and buried within it are many, many fascinating accounts which could have led to yet another book. It is too bad that Ruppelt died so young. [4] THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, Edward U. Condon, project director, Bantam Books, 1969. Close reading of this work reveals that the "conclusions" section has very little to do with the "case study" section. [5] Speech by Dr. James E. McDonald before the American Associ- ation For the Advancement Of Science in Boston, December, 1969, available from The Fund For UFO Research. See also McDonald's testimony before Congress in July, 1968, as reported in John G. Fuller's ALIENS IN THE SKIES, Putnam, 1969, pp. 64-96. What is striking about McDonald's AAAS speech is his professional skewering of both Hynek and Menzel, as well as the Air Force and Edward Condon. And McDonald, as a world-renowned atmospheric scientist, had the expertise to make his criticisms truly sting. It is unfortunate that he killed himself before his first book could be put into print. [End -- Part One of Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Ufomind Mailing List: UFO Blown Up In Chechnya From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 05:55:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:02:36 -0400 Subject: Ufomind Mailing List: UFO Blown Up In Chechnya Posted July 23 to the Ufomind Mailing List http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/jul/d22-001.shtml =BF "Flying Apparatus" blown up in Chechnya, Nov. 1995 From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:27:55 -0800 =20 From: eddie@intertaym.com.tr (Eddie EDISSON) To: area51rc@aol.com Date: 97-07-20 19:28:38 EDT Dear sirs! During war between Russia and Chechen Republic-Itchkeria in November 1995 in mountains of Chechnya, near settlement Itum-Kale the flying apparatus of an unknown design has blown up. On a place of its fall it was possible to collect the rests from the blown up device. The Chechenian technical experts, which in that time served means of armed forces of Itchkeria, (among which there were the scientists and engineers), could determine a principle of action of movier of the unknown apparatus, which was identified not otherwise as UFO. Despite an acuteness of battle actions and danger to be lost, the chechenian technical group assembled fragments of the destroyed device, are made the handmade drawings and preliminary results on the fact of spent researches are prepared. Works in this direction were strictly top secret and were under the personal control of the President of Ch.R.I. Jokhar Doudaev. All achieved results were reported personally to himself and all materials were kept in that time only at him. After tragical explosion on April 21, 1996, when was died J.Doudaev, a brief case with his personal archive, in which were stored documents about this UFO, has practically completely burned down. Only few pages were kept. Three of them tell about a design UFO, at than on two of them the technical sketches, made by the unknown author by hand, are submitted. The investigations which was made after ending of this war on the fact of explosion UFO not distances of any appreciable results, as the known members of that technical group were lost during battle actions, and until now is not found nobody of the live witnesses of incident. It is not known also while and where the rests of the flying apparatus are buried. There are only three slightly burning down sheets, picked up on a place of explosion on April 22, 1996 by one of staying in live bodyguards of J.Doudaev, from which we after them have received. In our opinion, even these rests of the documents testify that (with a high degree of probability) the secret of principles of a movement of UFO is opened. And if it will be possible to find also physical fragments of the blown up apparatus, is thought, that the people of the world should open for themself much new and to find many answers to long-term questions. I am addressed to them, who is interested by a problem of UFO, to them, who works over this problem. I am addressed to you with the request to advise - where it is necessary to address, to which research laboratory, in which scientific institute or university, to recreate and to construct model of movier from that unidentified flying apparatus, which in the early november morning has made the last flight in mountains of Caucasus. Eddie EDISSON Index: UFO Crashes Mothership -> Ufomind Mailing List -> 1997 -> Jul -> Here=20 Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-97 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Glenn Campbell, Webmaster=20 This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services.=20 Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email webmaster@ufomind.com This page:=20 http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/jul/d22-001.shtml =BF (7/23/97) *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 New York Sightings 1947, 1977 & 1989 From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:18:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:10:56 -0400 Subject: New York Sightings 1947, 1977 & 1989 >From The New York Post July 13 http://www2.mostnewyork.com/most/archive/97_07/071397/news_&_v/27514.hta We Gotcha Saucers Right Here By ANNE E. KORNBLUT Daily News Staff Writer One woman spotted a white flying saucer in 1947. Two more saw a flaming orange UFO in 1977. And in 1989, yet another claimed aliens plucked her from bed. All three incidents took place in the same town, but instead of a remote desert enclave, it was New York City where the number of UFOs called in to 911 annually is enough to lend credibility to the movie "Men In Black." And in the season of Mars landings, alien movies and Roswell reunions, these close encounters remain among the city's most famous. The most outrageous incident took place on Nov. 30, 1989, when Linda Cortile claimed she was snatched from her Manhattan apartment overlooking the Brooklyn Bridge. Dozens of commuters said they saw a bright light in the sky at the time. A much earlier encounter was easier to understand. One night in 1947, hundreds of New Yorkers jammed police and the Brooklyn Navy Yard switchboards to report a bright light. Fifty years later, Anne Fay is still transfixed by the incident. Fay, a Jackson Heights housewife, had gone out for some fresh air when she spotted a "big, bright globe" over a row of single-family homes. "It glowed with light," said Fay, who lived on 86th St. between 30th and 31st Aves. "It seemed as if it were hovering over the houses across the street. "There were no little green men dancing or anything; it was circular on the bottom. And I wasn't the least bit afraid. The feeling of peace that came from it was something I will never forget." Weeks later, experts came up with a theory: The gigantic orb may have been an aluminum balloon used by pilots to determine wind direction. But Fay, 84, who has survived cynics' taunts for decades, still thinks it was extraterrestrial. "What else could it be?" she asked. A second famous but more terrifying incident took place on Staten Island 30 years later, when two student nurses encountered what appeared to be a bright orange saucer gliding across Hylan Blvd. Diane Diaz and Toni Corbo were driving home from a diner at 1:20 p.m. on Nov. 19, 1977, when they spotted the bright light "bopping up and down." "My girlfriend almost drove off the road," Diaz recalled last week. "It was bright yellowy-orange, and it glowed so much we couldn't look directly at it. Terrified is not the word." The women, then in their 20s, flagged down a patrol car. The two surprised cops followed the glowing light all the way to New Jersey. Police reports, Air Force investigations and dozens of media interviews were followed by weeks of mocking. "My family thought I was crazy," Diaz said. "My brothers tortured me." But they also got hundreds of calls from supportive New Yorkers confirming what Diaz had suspected. "People understood what we were going through," Diaz said. "They had seen the same thing." Original Story Date: 071397 Original Story Section: City Central
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Roswell Sky Screens UFO Show From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:25:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:12:59 -0400 Subject: Roswell Sky Screens UFO Show >From the New York Post July 6 http://www2.mostnewyork.com/most/archive/97_07/070697/news/26873.hta Sky Screens A UFO Show By HELEN KENNEDY Daily News Staff Writer ROSWELL, N.M. If you want to see a UFO, drive 5 miles out of Roswell to a humble wooden shack where Becky Escamilla lives. UFOs buzz her house every day. At least that's what she says, and after spending a night there with a group of other star watchers, you just might believe her. On Thursday night, just before the 50th anniversary of the famous Roswell crash, a handful of people sat in lawn chairs in her yard, talking quietly. Mother Nature was putting on a spectacular show, throwing jagged bolts of lightning at the horizon. The sky above, however, was so clear that satellites could be seen sweeping steadily across the great bowl of stars. In one chair sat ex-Bronx defense attorney Peter Gersten, 55, who quit three years ago to devote time to suing the federal government for UFO information. There were men in cowboy hats with few teeth, and women in tent dresses sat and said nothing. "Will we see one?" someone asked. "Oh, sure. They're out every night," Escamilla replied. "I feel like I'm in that scene in 'Close Encounters,' " whispered William Forrest, 32, of Portland, Ore. For a long moment everyone watched the lightning. Then, a meteor streaked across the sky. "I see one!" yelled James Pirtle, 39, of Denver, Colo. There was an urgent chorus of "Where?" Lit by the lightning bolts, he pointed to the north sky, but the meteor was gone. Several people had seen it. Those who knew it was a meteor held their tongues. A dim moving light caused another uproar, until it was clear from its slow steady march across the sky that it was only a satellite. Pirtle got everyone's heart racing a few times claiming to see lights dart around and then vanish into clouds. "I'm seeing them good tonight," he exulted. But no one else did. And then something appeared that could not have been a satellite. It moved across the sky like a satellite. It was faint like a satellite. But it moved at least 10 times faster than a satellite. It crossed the sky from north to south in about 45 seconds. "I'm about as skeptical as you can get, but that was weird," said Forrest, rattled. "I'm sure there's a rational explanation for that. There has to be." He didn't sound convinced. He didn't sound like he wanted to be convinced. "I think that made the trip for me," he said, sinking back into his folding chair. Becky's brother Emanuel offered to show videos. The Escamillas spend most of every day filming the sky over their house. Spliced into a montage, more than 100 shots of what appear to be UFOs appeared on a TV screen. The objects whizzed across the sky, some in pairs. Some hovered. Some darted. There is also a shot of what looks like an armada, a formation of dozens of UFOs, hovering as in the battle scene from "Independence Day." Whatever the truth of UFOs, a visitor leaves the Escamillas' home a little creeped out, and looking at the skies. Original Story Date: 070697 Original Story Section: Beyond the City
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Area 51 Mailing List: Underground Hangars At Groom From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:36:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:17:36 -0400 Subject: Area 51 Mailing List: Underground Hangars At Groom Posted July 23 to the Area 51 Mailing List http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/1997/jul/a22-002.shtml =BF Underground hangars at Groom & Edwards + Aurora From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:50:29 -0800 =20 Within the past week, I had a chance encounter with a former TTR worker. Through my own contacts, I know that he is genuine and has worked both at Tonopah Test Range and Edwards AFB in a middle management position. His contact with me was purely coincidental. As is common in these encounters, details spill out without my asking for them. He didn't use many words, though, and there was an element of cautiousness in his voice. I knew that whatever he said then was all I would get. 1) The "Aurora" exists and has been operational for about five years. He didn't use the name "Aurora", I did. He called it only "that other plane" and by body language indicated that we were talking about the same thing. He said it was built by Lockheed Skunkworks. He said he knows it exists, because he watched it flight tested at Edwards (apparently about five years ago). I said, "Edwards? How can you fly anything secret at Edwards?" He said, "There is so much coming and going out of there that no one notices." This implies that the plane looks and sounds similar to an ordinary aircraft on takeoff and landing. 2) There is an underground hangar at Edwards North Base. He said that on the surface it "looks abandonned", but there is a ramp down into a modern, active hangar below ground. He said he had been inside this hangar, and seemed to indicate that it was a regular part of his job. 3) There is an underground hangar at Groom Lake. Although he said he had never been there, I got the impression that he had pretty solid second-hand knowledge (since there is a lot of exchange of personnel between TTR, Edwards and Groom). He said on the surface, it looks like some munitions bunkers, but again there is a ramp for planes to taxi below ground. This last claim I can almost confirm myself. Once while on Freedom Ridge, I observed a fighter jet land on the Groom runway. It landed from the north and then taxied from the south end of the runway toward the base on what I assume is the South Delta Taxiway. About 1/2 to 3/4 up the taxiway, the plane passed behind a berm and did not re-emerge on the other side. I waited and waited, but it never came out. This location was not the Scoot 'N Hide (which I saw used on another occasion) and it was not the "High Security Compound" as indicated in the Mar. 1994 Pop. Sci. It was roughly between the two. I can't confirm anything corresponding to it on our satellite image poster, but the berms would be hard to see there. From my perspective on Freedom Ridge, the berms were still far from the base with no buildings near them. All this proves nothing: They are just leads for future research. BTW: The aircraft I saw using the Scoot N' Hide was a large fighter-shaped plane using a drag chute. It moved directly from the runway to the hangar without delay and the doors closed quickly. I cannot recall the dates of either of these Freedom Ridge observations. Glenn Index: Det 3, AFFTC Index: Area 51 Operations & Facilities Index: Edwards North Base Index: "Aurora" Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-97 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Glenn Campbell, Webmaster=20 This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services. Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email webmaster@ufomind.com This page: http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/1997/jul/a22-002.shtml =BF(7/23/97) *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Coincidence or Debunkery? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:43:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:41:52 -0400 Subject: Coincidence or Debunkery? Here is a little episode I'll recount regarding a recent posting to UFO UpDates, judge for yourself if episode is a mere coincidence or an example of debunkery. The other day a copyrighted article was posted on UFO UpDates which offered a erudite discussion on the application of physiometric polygraph testing and voice stress analysis to UFO cases. This article made several points, one important point was to discredit, based on an appeal to authority, the validity of voice stress analysis. Interestingly this authority was the DoD, the Department of Defense. Now this might not strike one as a matter of import and with good reason. However, the unheralded appearance of this article and the point it was making struck a chord with me. This is because I had been researching the issue of the validity of Voice Stress Analysis (VSA) - and related it to the appearance of an obscure article published in a tabloid, in which an expert on VSA had analyzed the US Air Force spokesman's recent report on Roswell and declared that the analysis proved that the spokesman was lying. I think that the underlying reason for the unheralded and timely appearance of this lengthy article "Lie Detection in UFO Controversies" is really related to the article of which appeared last week in the National Enquirer in which one of the proponents and experts on the use of Voice Stress Analysis - analyzed the speeches of the Air Force spokesmen on Roswell and concluded that they were deliberately deceptive, lying. Now this has not hit any mainstream media I have seen. In fact it hasn't even hit UFO UpDates, except for this attack on VSA which just happened to come along. In my own research of the web on VSA I found the DoD's attack on VSA. Its unsubstantiated, unscientific and highly publicized, in short debunkery of VSA. If you are wondering about the utility of VSA, ask the law enforcement authorities in your community, you may be surprised at its widespread application and acceptance. Is it coincidence that that this material is appearing now? - of course, and I can offer you a 99 year lease on a bridge in the East River... Would be dangerous to have the yahoos conducting independent tests on recognized authorities using VSA? High speed home computers with a microphone and the appropriate software are capable of performing voice stress analysis, think about it. Below is the article on the application of VSA to the Air Force spokesman's statements followed by the DoD's statement. The article on the application of physiometric testing by polygraph and voice stress analysis, "Lie Detection in UFO Controversies" by Geoff Price was posted on July 22, 1997 and will be in the UFO Update archives so I am not including it here. Air Force is lying about UFO crash at Roswell - LIE DETECTOR PROVES The U.S. government is STILL lying to the American public about the Roswell UFO crash incident! That's the stunning conclusion of a top lie-detector expert after analyzing a U.S. Air Force spokesman's recent report on a two-year study into the sensational UFO sightings in Roswell, N. Mex., in 1947. Air Force Col. John Haynes debunked the famous incident in a June 24 TV press conference. He claimed the "UFOs" seen by witnesses were actually box kites and test balloons, and that the bulbous-headed "aliens" were Air Force crash-test dummies. But Col. Haynes was lying and showing deception, says voice stress analyst Alfred F. Starewich - who studied a videotape of the press conference at The ENQUIRER's request. Starewich, a licensed private investigator, used the lie- detecting machine. Called the Latern D6000, it pinpoints untruths through stress in the voice. The machine is so supersophisticated that it can even detect fluctuations in the heart rate through voice stress alone. Lies show up as square blocks and spikes on the machine's printout. "Col. Haynes is covering up!" the expert told The ENQUIRER. "He doesn't even believe what he is saying. At times his voice is showing so much stress, his heart is fibrillating-it's almost as if he's having a mini heart attack!" Here are some of Haynes' key statements, and Starewich's conclusions: HAYNES: "Bodies observed in the New Mexico desert were probably test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research." STAREWICH: "The colonel's stress levels jump 125 percent on that statement. He doesn't believe the sightings were crash dummies!" HAYNES: "Claims of bodies at the Roswell Army air field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents. One was a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives or a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured." STAREWICH: "The high degree of abnormal stress indicates the colonel disbelieved what he was saying." HAYNES: "The unusual military activities in the New Mexico desert were high-altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations." STAREWICH: "His stress levels are continuing to l build. He doesn't believe any Air Force personnel were engaged in dummy operations." -LARRY HALEY This article excerpted from: National Enquirer issue for week of July 28, 1997, page 21. The Department of Defense Polygraph Institute made the following statement in September of 1996: "To date, we have found no credible evidence in information furnished by the manufacturers, the scientific literature, or in our own research, that voice stress analysis is an effective investigative tool for determining deception. ... The preponderance of evidence indicates the polygraph is far more accurate at detecting deception than is voice stress analysis." Ask yourself who do you believe and why? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Voice Stress Analysis - a follow-up From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:42:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:42:02 -0400 Subject: Voice Stress Analysis - a follow-up From: http://www.polygraph.org:83/voice.htm Polygraph vs Voice Stress. Department of Defense Polygraph Institute VOICE STRESS ANALYSIS POSITION STATEMENT September 11, 1996 Background The polygraph measures predictable changes in a person's body that are associated with the stress of deception. These changes include alterations in heart rate, breathing, and electrodermal activity (emotional sweating). Many other changes occur as well: the pupils get larger, digestion slows, the body's blood supply is redistributed away from the skin and gastrointestinal regions and toward the muscles, etc. The measures used by the polygraph were selected in the 1920s and 1930s because they were simple to record (as opposed to brain waves or gastrointestinal activity), they were sensitive (even minor changes in stress levels caused these physiological changes to occur), and they were accurate. Starting about 25 years ago, serious efforts were made to use the voice to detect deception. Many devices were marketed for this purpose. The most widely advertised devices have been the Psychological Stress Evaluator (PSE), the Hagoth, the Mark II Voice Stress Analyzer (VSA), and the Computerized Voice Stress AnaIyzer (CVSA). If effective, voice analysis offers many advantages over current polygraph methodology. Voice samples can be recorded without discomfort to the subject. Examinations could be conducted remotely, both in distance, using a telephone or radio link, or in time, using a tape recording. In rare cases, it could even be conducted after a person's death, if a recording made under proper technical, psychological, and investigative conditions existed. The recordings could also be conducted surreptitiously and would be of great benefit in intelligence and counterintelligence investigations, international negotiations, etc. If effective, voice stress analysis could significantly improve the nation's security. The Department of Defense Polygraph Institute has investigated the scientific value of voice stress analysis. We reviewed the research literature on voice stress analysis. Only one voice stress device, the CVSA, is being widely marketed. We purchased the CVSA, and sent two researchers to the CVSA school for training by the manufacturer. We conducted several studies on voice stress analysis, using standard laboratory voice equipment and software and also using the CVSA device. We solicited the manufacturer's advice in designing the CVSA studies, and used both our own scientists and CVSA practitioners recommended by the CVSA manufacturer to gather the research data. Conclusions 1. To date, we have found no credible evidence in information furnished by the manufacturers, the scientific literature, or in our own research, that voice stress analysis is an effective investigative tool for determining deception. 2. A very few studies have found that voice stress analysis worked better than chance at detecting deception. Unfortunately, these results are not consistent, nor are the reported accuracies nearly as good as those normally reported for the polygraph. Hundreds of studies have shown that when properly trained examiners use the polygraph under controlled conditions, their decisions can be highly accurate in discriminating between truthful and deceptive people. 3. The preponderance of evidence indicates the polygraph is far more accurate at detecting deception than is voice stress analysis. No Department of Defense agency uses any form of voice stress analysis for investigative purposes. ________________________________________________ From: http://legal.firn.edu/muni/palmbch/employme.html The Palm Beach Police Department EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND REQUIREMENTS The Palm Beach Police Department is a progressive organization offering unique careers in law enforcement. New officers are assigned to the Patrol Division, with the possibility of transfer to specialty units after a one-year probationary period. All patrol officers work five-day, forty-hour weeks. The Department currently employs 69 sworn and 52 civilian personnel. Palm Beach is very unique in character and demands the highest level of service and the utmost in professionalism from its personnel. The Department emphasizes efficiency and excellence in law enforcement. [snip] THE SELECTION PROCESS PHYSIOLOGICAL PROFILE: Consists of a series of events assessing your physical abilities. A description will be provided by the Personnel Department. SWIMMING SKILLS TEST: A skills test examining basic water survival skills, conducted by Palm Beach Lifeguards. ORAL REVIEW BOARD INTERVIEW: The interview provides evaluation of employment and educational history; ability to relate well to others; reasoning and problem-solving skills in answering situational questions; and communication skills. VOICE STRESS ANALYSIS: The voice stress analysis test will be used to verify information obtained from both the application and the Oral Review Board Interview. [snip] ________________________________________________ From: http://www.chp.ca.gov/recruiting/selection.html Selection Process for Cadet, CHP [California Highway Patrol] [snip] Candidates selected to continue in the hiring process are subject to the following: Psychological Evaluation: Includes a written examination and personal interview with a licensed psychologist Background Investigation: Determines the candidate's suitability to be a peace officer. As part of the Background Investigation, all candidates will be required to undergo a truth verification examination. A Computer Voice Stress Analyzer will be used to verify the veracity and accuracy of information submitted regarding the use of controlled substances, driving, criminal, medical and employment history and other job-related factors. [snip] ________________________________________________ From: http://www.dps.state.mo.us/dps/msfs/dfsinvst.htm Division of Fire Safety Office of the State Fire Marshal [Missouri] [snip] Several Division investigators are also trained in the operation of Computerized Voice Stress Analysis equipment. This equipment has proven to be invaluable during follow-up investigations. [snip] ________________________________________________ Learn about and download a Voice Stress Analysis lie detector from this page. From: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/pbdennis/truthvsa.html TruthVSA: Voice Stress Analysis Freeware. This text is complete with links to referenced documents and web sites on the internet. Because it is intended for dissemination off of the internet as well as on, the convention of surrounding links with [ square brackets ] to denote them is used, with web addresses listed at the end. For convienience, both text and internet style "htm" copies of this document are included in TruthVSA.zip. Load the htm into your browser for best viewing. 1. All About VSA 2. Download TruthVSA.zip 3. TruthVSA Operating Instructions. [snip] We're the computer generation: VSA technology is now freely available to millions of people! Spread it around! [ Download TruthVSA.zip now: 50K ] ________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Ice in The Sky From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:23:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:14:34 -0400 Subject: Ice in The Sky Blocks of ice crash down from sky in Brazil 22 July 1997 Web posted at: 22:47 ART, Buenos Aires time (01:47 GMT) RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuter) - Two large blocks of ice which crashed in Brazil's Sao Paulo state from clear skies are most likely part of a meteorite, a Brazilian researcher said Tuesday. "It's very strange. In principle they look like normal ice, have no smell. But we are analyzing the two blocks and we should have something at the end of this week," said Jurandir Zullo, researcher at the Campinas State University. "I think the most likely answer is that they are part of a meteorite," he added. The first block of ice slammed through the tiled roof of a bus factory July 11 in Campinas, 62 miles north of the state capital of Sao Paulo. "People who saw it just after it landed said that it was around eight inches by 31 inches," Zullo said. "They then put it in the freezer but it still melted a little. When we got there, it weighed about 110 lbs," he added. The second block plummeted down on July 15, causing a small crater in a rural area some 37 miles north of Campinas. Officials at the local airport at Campinas have ruled out the possibility the ice may have fallen off a passing aircraft. "The tower at the airport has said there were no airplanes passing when the ice blocks fell," Zullo said. A meteorologist at the National Institute for Space Studies said there was no climatic feature on both days which could have accounted for the two ice blocks. "I am also very curious," he said. Zullo said he had only heard of one other previous incident in Brazil when a crater was found in the Amazon and scientists suspected a block of ice which had subsequently melted. In April 1995, Chinese experts, saying it could be a scientific first recovered what they believed to be chunks of meteoric ice that plummeted to earth in Zheijang province. Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:05:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:20:57 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> >Subject: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies =20 >Lie Detection in UFO Controversies >=A91997 Geoff Price =20 >Grappling with fraud and deception is par for the course in the context of >UFO claims, and as a result, "lie detector" tests are frequently demanded >of UFO claimants, and their results, positive or negative, brandished as >evidence. =20 >Some cases in particular have put lie detection in the spotlight, notably >the Travis Walton abduction case of 1975, as well as the more recent (and >divisive) case of Ed Walters and his Gulf Breeze photographs. =20 >Kevin Randle, in his latest book the Randle Report, rules both cases a >hoax, pointedly citing the original, failed polygraph test of Travis= Walton >(administered by John McCarthy, hereafter "the McCarthy test".) Gulf >Breeze detractors, such as Carol and Rex Salisberry, have cited the >successful voice stress analysis test conducted on a taped deposition= given >by Tommy Smith (who says he observed the fabrication of photographs by >Walters). =20 >Both of these examples represent somewhat irresponsible use of "lie >detection" evidence, illustrating some of the pitfalls and common= confusion >that surrounds the topic. =20 [snip] While the information about the polygraph was informative and interesting,= the results of the polygraph aren't the only reasons for suggesting that= the Walton case and the Gulf Breeze cases are a hoax. It is one of many= reasons. A careful reading of The Randle Report will show that I have reservations= about the McCarthy test, not the least of which is that McCarthy seemed to= have some sort of personality conflict with Walton that could have colored= his report. However, it should be noted that the second test, given by Pfeifer, while= more reliable, was also questioned by Tom Ezell. Ezell owned the company= for which Pfeifer worked. Ezell's review of the charts suggested that= Walton had not passed the test, or had barely passed. Now, as I said in the= book, the weight of the evidence has to be given to Pfeifer because he= administered the test. And, when we get to a point where a story has been told so often, has been= shared with the world, has been documented in books, and in which the= subject has undergone hypnotic regression, the the results of a test= administered some twenty years after the fact might be flawed. This is= based on the experiences of a number of qualified individuals. But the real point is that I reject the Walton case, not only=20 because of the failed, or allegedly failed polygraphs, but on=20 other evidence as well. We must look at the whole package and=20 not just a small segment of it. Look at the deception of both=20 the Lorenzens and the Waltons concerning the first test. That=20 is very revealing. Finally, according to your report, as many as one in four=20 polygraph tests might be invalid. Other figures suggest one in=20 ten. This is the reason that the polygraph is not used to prove=20 guilt or innocence. As for Gulf Breeze, the polygraph information is just one small=20 part of the whole picture.Again, it is all the other evidence=20 that I find to be persuasive when arguing against the reality of=20 the Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze sightings. But hey, I could be wrong on these points. I just need to see=20 additional and persuasive evidence. To this point I find it=20 lacking. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:45:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:24:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:45:22 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Question for Kevin Randle > >From: XianneKei@aol.com > >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:37:53 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Question for Kevin Randle >And no, this does not mean that the Hill abduction is >the result of pop culture, only that it could be. >KRandle I have to agree with Kevin here, the influence of popular culture on abduction reports would appear to be extremely significant, beginning with the Hills, and reaching a fairly critical state these days. It's pretty hard to enter a magazine or bookshop or turn on the TV (or go into Hallmark cards in the US!) without being confronted with images of the Greys and UFOs. The greys have become the standard bogeyman character for kids (and adults), the things in the closet or hiding under the bed. I don't doubt that some people are experiencing some extremely weird stuff, some of it perhaps contact with some form of intelligence - perhaps human in origin, perhaps not. But I think that the grey/UFO/abduction scenario has become a form of template that is bolted on to the experience either at the time or afterwards (particularly during hypnosis) by the brain, probably unconsciously. Whilst none of these ideas are new, the recent post about facial templates was very interesting and would appear to suggest this also. Again, before I am lynched, I do believe that many people are going through some very strange and important stuff, but I don't believe the greys are responsible. i have met enough sane and sincere "experiencers" to recognise this. As Vallee and others have pointed out, entity encounters have been going on for ever - the imagery changes with the times (as does UFO imagery, from dragons to airships to saucers to delta wings) but the core experiences are always very similar. This ultimately comes down to how our brains, which we know very little about, interact with our larger environment, which we know little about, and the greater natural forces that play on both of them. If anyone is interested I elaborate and go into more detail in a thesis I wrote for a film studies degree. It's at http://www.hedweb.com/markp/ufofilm.htm I also recommend the writings of Martin Kottmeyer and Nigel Watson in these areas. Some of their stuff can be found at Magonia. I welcome anyone's comments, as this is a key (to me, the key) area of the UFO mystery. Mark Mark Pilkington Magonia Online http://www.netkonect.co.uk/d/dogon/idex.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Alien Autopsy once again From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:40:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:26:18 -0400 Subject: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: 23 Jul 97 08:44:42 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again [text deleted] >Sorry to be a few days in responding, but I've been out in Las Vegas >on a magazine assignment. Interesting story, BTW, in the local paper >about an archeologist who managed to secretly penetrate the Area 51 >periphery and get all the way to papoose lake. He spent a week in there >undetected looking for archelogical traces reported by early miners >and then hiked back out none the worse for wear. Unfortunately, this >is a seven-part series, and being there for only four days I was >not able to read it all. Maybe Glenn Campbell, if he's lurking, can >read the rest and let us know if it contains any real revelations, as >the initial episodes kept hinting. Anyone interested in reading this article can find it at http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/1997/jul/19/506108271.html I don't know if this is the entire series in one article, or if there is more that relates to this stroy yet to be posted. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jul 97 09:50:11 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:22:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 11:30:39 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>Date: 18 Jul 97 10:00:18 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Bob Shell writes: >>However, as one who works in the magazine publishing business, I know >>PR hype when I see it... >At last we agree on something. >Vince Vince, Are you sure????? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jul 97 09:50:24 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:27:29 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:49 -0400 Greg, If you really want to see alien faces drawn quite some time ago, you should look at the drawings of Aleister Crowley. Some of them show typical "grays" with wrap-around eyes, hairless, skinny necks, etc. These are drawings of entities he claimed to be in contact with. The only significant difference between his drawings and modern drawings of grays, is his lack the black eye covers, and you can see the actual eyes. These drawings were made from the late 1800s through to the mid 1940s. Many of them were destroyed on the grounds of being obscene, since they depicted these beings having sexual relations with humans. In 1918, after spending the night in the Great Pyramid, Crowley was in the Boulak Museum in Cairo (now the Egyptian Museum). When they came to a particular stele, his wife spontaneously went into a trance and told him that "they" wanted to communicate with him. Later he was visited by a man (what would today be called a "Nordic") who materialized in his hotel room, who gave his name as Aiwass, and who dictated a strange book to Crowley, complete with a map or star chart which has not yet been deciphered. This book is known as Liber Al vel Legis, or in English, The Book of the Law. I find that most UFO researchers are totally ignorant of the work of Crowley, John Dee and other members of the Western magical tradition who have claimed for centuries to be in contact with higher intelligences and have had experiences which we would today call close encounters, contact and abduction. The difference is that they have initiated the experiences through complex rituals. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Coincidence or Debunkery? From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:25:41 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:36:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Coincidence or Debunkery? >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:43:02 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Coincidence or Debunkery? >The other day a copyrighted article was posted on UFO UpDates which >offered a erudite discussion on the application of physiometric >polygraph testing and voice stress analysis to UFO cases... one im- >portant point was to discredit, based on an appeal to authority, the >validity of voice stress analysis. Interestingly this authority was >the DoD, the Department of Defense. No Gary, not just the DoD. As Geoff Price noted in his article, Dr. Honts of Boise State Univeristy who can be considered an expert in these matters is in complete consent with the DoD, expressing the firm agreement that "there is no published evidence to support the validity of VSA." This isn't a conspiracy between Geoff Price, Honts, and the Dod to cover up the National Enquirer's results, Gary. The issue here is scientific evidence and validity, which VSA has neither. >Now this might not strike one as a matter of import and with good >reason. However, the unheralded appearance of this article and the >point it was making struck a chord with me. This is because I had been No reasonable person would be capable of inferring a conspiracy here unless one is compelled, for whatever reasons, to see a conspiracy everywhere. Let's condense here: You are saying that Geoff Price's posting of his article on polygraph reliability was not accidental but instead a directed effort to discredit the National Enquirer's voice stress analysis of the Roswell USAF press conference! That's not just paranoid, but completely lacking in any evidence to boot. Unbridled speculation is no substitute for evidence, Gary. I happen to know why Geoff Price wrote the essay as we discussed the issue weeks ago in private email. There can be no question as to its goals; It illuminated the poor, irresponsible, and selective use of polygraph and/or VSA results in the cases of Walton and Ed Walters, and Kevin Randle's treatment of same. The inferences you are making are not only unwarranted but serve to emphasize, unfortunately, how paranoia has come to pervade much of contemporary UFOlogy. Truly disappointed, Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:38:46 -0400 Subject: Re: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? > From: gregmcd@cstone.net (Greg McDavitt) > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: The Oliver's Castle Controversy - Exposed? > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:56:57 -0500 > >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 03:54:59 +0100 > >To: reaw@dnet.net > >From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> > >Subject: THE OLIVER'S CASTLE CONTROVERSY EXPOSED > Mark, thank you very much for this report which > includes the statement by Lee Winterson.<S> > These hoaxes strongly destroy the credibility > of Ufology. It is frustrating that events such > as this take place when so many well intentioned > and honest folks put a great deal of their time and > money into discovering the truth. > > Reputations are constantly being built but easily > destroyed in an instant. Always resulting in > some degree of permanent loss. > > Regards, > > Greg McDavitt - Sysop > Project: Watchfire Hello Greg, Do hoaxes really destroy the credibility of ufology? I see the other side to this, that due to the importance and the reality of most crop circles, and their obvious connection to the UFO phenomenon, certain authorities who feel threatened by the UFO reality have taken action to try to discredit crop circles by engaging a few individuals of like mind to the task of hoaxing. If there weren't some such hoaxes, it would mean that authorities didn't feel threatened and/or that no such authority figures believe in flouting the truth in order to try to preserve the status quo. Why then would such authorities think that such a policy would work? Apparently because they think that most people can be made to believe that if one object of a kind can be shown to be a hoax, then all such objects are hoaxes. So far, with the aid of the news media and the curtain of ridicule that has existed for so long around the UFO phenomenon, such authorities have held the upper hand. It's up to us, as far as possible, to prevent them from continuing to be successful at this ploy. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Alfred's Odd Odd #159 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:50:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:54:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Odd #159 Apology to MW #159 (For July 24, 1997) The future for all is all open ended. There is all the potential for limitless choice. You are stunted, and covered and kept where life's filtered -- So much more controllable without informed voice! The stuff you have learned is an ax grinding dodge. History re-written for the grace of a few. Grammar and High School were tools of the landed They would break, bind, and chain you before they were through. Whining that the struggle was in everyone's best interest. Whining that they knew best, and were guidance, God bestowed. Whining that the richest are indeed maligned minority.=20 Whining that _mere rats_ are thieving at their vacuumed treasure troves. . . .Read some Vallee, and Marrs, and Hancock/Bauval. They refute what is ladled in *our* public schools. There IS all manner of conspiracy afoot! A fraction of our populace plays the rest for fools! James Loewen describes it as cognitive dissonance. A behavior that hobbles, ties up, or constrains. Confrontation with truth hurts the old bottom line --=20 Keep kids in the dark, as adults they'll be trained. The truth, it may be horrible . . .to horrible for real, But it festers 'neath the scab by which it's covered. It may look good on the surface, but you find its real purpose Is to shuffle up credulity - truth's ablated, unrecovered! It's been the life blood of this nation; to connive, and to conspire! It's politics as usual that fans it into flames. It's the richest and their interests that drives the spiral tower While the lowest bear the heat, and their children take the blame. And where do the richest get off, do you think? Haughtily sneering at those who make toil. Those truly building the world of the rich; Those buried alive, to the neck, in its soil. Those that scrape, and hoard their pennies Too tired for revolution! Those that live their frightened lives Fearing _evolution_! They build the richest's myriad lives! They've made it institution! They pump, and heat the very water! They _are_ its constitution. So where's the sneering come from . . . When lord beholds his serf? The peasant is an underling? His eyes best in the dirt? Beneath concern or cruel contempt? Nor consideration's notice? A knob on which you place you foot? A convenient back or poultice? A useful tool for your convenience That you use up like old socks. Some one without the where with all To talk with you about your stocks. Well these lowest have the richest a suckle at drained breast. And the rich are sucking hard at beat up nipples. They have kept the world in turmoil for position on your tit And they work that deed to keep your spirit crippled. Lehmberg@snowhill.com This goes for anyone who looks down their nose as a matter of reflex. This is for anyone with a proud look. Those you detest hold you in providing arms, and manufacture your complete convenience out of thin air, you Lofty Elite! Have respect for the builders/maintainers of your world, that they may lose their fear and mistrust - that they may begin to learn a _new_ respect for you!=20 --=20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/Lehmberg.html "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out the disrespect. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau (To From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:05:42 -0400 Subject: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau (To Greetings to The List -- Yesterday, I was bcc'd on the following message (have no idea who the addressee[s] was/were, or who "zenpride@well.com" is): ------------------------------------------------------------------------- BCC from zenpride@well.com: Sounds like Karl Pflock didn't do his homework, and needs to be debunked, at least regarding the last point. Below is an excerpt from an interview by Michael Lindemann with Philip Corso. It appeared in CNI News, one of the best sources of up-to-date info on UFOs. (Subscriptions are available from 1-800-898-0284 or CNINews1@aol.com, and no I'm not on the staff.) ************************************************ Michael Lindemann: What about the problem with Senator Strom Thurmond's foreword to your book? Simon and Schuster has issued a bland apology, saying they're going to pull Thurmond's foreword out of future printings of the book. What was your understanding with the Senator? Philip Corso: I've known Strom Thurmond for almost a lifetime. He's a very honest, sincere and courageous individual. We've alway been close. I found out recently that his staff did it. I don't think the old man knew it, and I think the old man will eventually call me. We were too close for a signed release. Then [the Senator's staff] came back and said, "As a matter of courtesy, if we say that the Senator really wasn't clear on the nature of the book..." and Simon and Schuster said, "Well, if it's a matter of courtesy, then we can certainly understand that in the heat of material passing back and forth, misunderstandings can happen." So, that was the basic agreement. ML: So, once they got the niceties of language straightened out, the agreement was that the foreword would be pulled from future printings of the book? BB [presumably, William Birnes, Corso's coauthor. -- KTP]: Yes, exactly. But it will remain as it is, with this cover, for this printing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In truth, it's Corso who needs debunking. An aside: I assume "Zen" is using "debunking" in a positive rather than pejorative sense--that is, to mean remove the bunk. Don't know about others here on UpDates, but I've always found it curious and unfortunate that the words "debunk" ("to expose the sham or falseness of"--WEBSTER'S NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY, 1977), "debunker," "debunking," and "debunked" have long since come to mean something negative in UFOdumb. After all, isn't removing/exposing the bunk essential to getting at the facts about UFOs and the truths they embody? Then there's "skeptic"--thanks, CSICOP, grumble, gripe... As I was saying, it's Corso who needs debunking. On the specific matter of Sen. Thurmond's foreword, the simple truth is, Corso pulled a bait and switch on the senator, who trusted him as an officer and a gentleman. My "homework" clearly and unequivocally established this. In preparation for writing my MUFON UFO JOURNAL (July '97) feature on the book, I called the senator's press secretary to inquire about the whys and wherefores of the foreword. Much to my delight and surprise, I discovered this was Chris Cimko, with whom I'd worked in the Pentagon (conspirat orialists, please hold your orgasms until after the family hour). Needless to say, this facilitated matters. Yes, it's true the foreword was drafted by one of the senator's staff. That's the way it usually is done. It was done at the senator's direction on the understanding he had FROM CORSO that it was to be for Corso's memoirs, for which he and his staff were supplied an outline, a document which made NO mention of UFOs. I know of my own certain knowledge the senator was and is mad as hell about the cheap trick Corso pulled on him, compounded by the story breaking during a week of celebrations honoring Thurmond's record service in the U.S. Senate. He quite rightly feels cynically betrayed by a former aide whom he thought to be a man of honor. It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall (not to say a bug on the line) when and if the senator ever calls Corso. As for the "niceties of language" or the "matter of courtesy" nonsense, anyone who doubts what the senator wanted done should read his June 11 letter to Simon & Schuster (Pocket Books parent company) Deputy General Counsel Eric Raymond: recall all copies of the first printing--failing that, remove all dust jackets with the senator's name on them; stop using any reference to the foreword or the senator in promoting the book; do not use the foreword in any subsequent printings of the book; issue a statement acknowledging the truth, "to establish for the public record" that the senator "had no intention or desire to write the foreword to THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL," a "project I completely disavow." Well, the senator didn't get the first printing recalled (which he acknowledged in his letter to Raymond was "a logistical and financial impossibility"), nor did he get the dust jackets replaced (same problem), but he DID get the foreword dropped from future printings and current promotional material, and he did get the statement he asked for. Some excerpts from same, with emphasis added: "Following publication, Senator Thurmond advised Simon & Schuster that he wrote the foreword for an ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT BOOK PROJECT THAT MR. CORSO HAD DESCRIBED TO THE SENATOR AS PERSONAL MEMOIRS of his career in military intelligence. Senator Thurmond informed Simon & Schuster that he did NOT know the subject matter or the actual contents of 'The Day After Roswell' until they were described to him by reporters [i.e., Yours Truly]. "Simon & Schuster and Philip J. Corso [sic] regret any impression created by this foreword's inclusion in The Day after Roswell that Senator Thurmond was aware or approved the book's subject matter or contents.... No future printing of The Day After Roswell will include this foreword." I wouldn't characterize this as "a bland apology." It doesn't take a lot of reading between the lines to see that S&S's general counsel told his management they were had by the short ones and, if Thurmond wanted to make a legal issue of it, he damn' well likely could make it stick. Undoubtedly, he also told them it was highly likely Thurmond, as a politician, was much more interested in putting the matter to rest than keeping it high profile, so an apology which implicitly acknowledged the truth of the senator's claim to have been euchred by the author and pulling the foreword from future printings (if any) would probably do the trick. Besides, the dust up has helped to sell books which likely would have been remaindered, so what the heck... It's worth noting the Thurmond staffer who drafted the fateful foreword not only is still on the senator's staff, but has been given a more responsible position since the late difficulties, not exactly what one would expect with a screw-up responsible for a severe embarrassment to the senator. No, that responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of Corso the Betrayer. Which reminds me, there's another prominent man who's name and reputation Corso is exploiting, the conveniently late Lt. Gen. Arthur Trudeau. As Dennis Stacy has put it, the book really should be called WAITING FOR TRUDEAU (TO DIE). Maybe that's what the foreword-less paperback edition or the movie will be called. Finally, anyone interested in reading Senator Thurmond's official statement on this whole matter should be able to obtain a copy of his June 5 press release, "Right Foreword, Wrong Book," from his Washington office. I imagine the same would be true of his June 11 letter to S&S lawyer Eric Raymond. -- KARL deBUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 UFO Sighting - Sparta, Kentucky From: KENNY <task@fuse.net> [Kenny Young] Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:38:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:29:57 -0400 Subject: UFO Sighting - Sparta, Kentucky NEWSPAPER ARTICLE: COUPLE REPORTS SEEING UFO FLYING OVER GALLATIN The Gallatin County News 7/23/97 Sandra Brown and John Gardner of Gallatin County were driving through Sparta on Hwy 35 last Friday about noon when something they spotted in the sky grabbed their attention. "You'd have to say it was a UFO," Said Brown. "We pulled over on the side of the road and watched it for about 5 minutes. Neither of us have ever seen anything like this before." Brown said the object they saw in the sky was round, silver, had no wings and was a little bigger than a car. It just kind of sat there," the startled motorist said. "It hung in the sky in one place and then in the blink of an eye disappeared." She said it definetely wasn't an airplane and was too big to be a weather balloon. I know people will think we're crazy, but we really saw this. This is no joke," said Brown. A check with the county dispatcher found no other recent UFO reports in the area. Note: Special thanks to GALLATIN COUNTY NEWS for FAX copy of this article to T.A.S.K. ____________________________________________________________________ Comment: The above UFO sighting took place on Friday, July 18 around noon. At 12:30 p.m., the B-2 Stealth Bomber was sighted over the Cincinnati area by dozens of people, including T.A.S.K. Investigator Ron Schaffner. This location is 36.5 miles northeast of Sparta, Kentucky. The flight path of the Stealth Bomber was said to have been from north to south. A reporter on-board a traffic-helicopter operated by one local news station was said to have also spotted the Stealth, and said, "I hope that thing's not armed!" Although it was suspected that the Stealth fly-over was attributable to the Dayton International Airshow occurring during the weekend, T.A.S.K. has determined that the B-2 appearance was actually a pre-arranged flyover for the employees GE plant in Evendale, as per a memo that was circulated to GE employees a day in advance. Although there was some concern that the Stealth flyover would generate UFO reports, none was received. However, local news stations did receive numerous calls from the public that wanted to report the Stealth Bomber traveling overhead. This 'public recognition factor' enabled the witnesses to readily identify the strange looking plane. The Sparta, Kentucky report, however, presents a challenge to those seeking to apply the same explanation. The reported object was visible for 5-minutes as it 'hung' in the air, was described as round, silver and wingless, and said to be a 'little bigger than a car.' Furthermore, the witnesses stated that the object disappeared in 'the blink of an eye.' The physical descriptions and ballistic conduct reported by the witnesses do not seem compatible with the physical and ballistic characteristics expected from the B2 Stealth Bomber. The next evening, Saturday, July 19 at 7:30 p.m., Chris Heiert reported to T.A.S.K. that two missile-like objects flew in tandem over a section of Alexandria, Kentucky, in Campbell County (32.5 miles north- east of Sparta). The wingless objects were observed for nearly 1-minute, were 'white' in color, and traveled due north. Air demonstrations for the Dayton International Airshow (64.5 miles north of the location) were not active during this time. The objects were reported at a high altitude. In our continuing investigations of the Alexandria and Sparta sightings, T.A.S.K. will seek to explore aspects of 'witness mis-perception' and 'false identifications' when dealing with these reports. On the basis of the preliminary information available, there seems to be no other prosaic explanation applicable. Of concern would be duration of observation, estimate of altitude and direction of travel. -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:24:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 15:12:09 cst To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Hi Karl, >I agree on the credibility of most of the Roswell "eyewitnesses." >But don't you think the "flying disk" press release attracted >infinitely more attention to events surrounding Mogul than if the >Army had simply said nothing at all? >How do you explain the absence of negative impact on the careers of >Blanchard, Marcel, et al? >Regards, >Vince Hi, Vince! Long time no see/talk. And greetings to The List, with apologies for taking so long to respond -- You see, I recently received my new debunker's manual and updates on the official Roswell line and have been completely absorbed in studying same and getting up to speed. I wanted to be sure I had everything down pat before replying. Unlike a number of my MJ-12 colleagues (e.g., a certain retired army light colonel who recently published a very bad book), I pride myself on doing the job with care and finesse. Besides, it hurts to step on one's dick, even figuratively. Now then... Vince, you seem to be under the mistaken assumption the flying disk press announcement was intended as a cover for Project Mogul. I'm not aware of any such suggestion ever being made by the Air Force or anyone else. (On the other hand, the balloon-launch demonstration conducted at Alamogordo AAF the next day, certainly was.) It seems clear to me the people at the 509th honestly believed they had a "flying disk" on their hands--WHATEVER THAT TERM MAY HAVE MEANT TO THEM BACK THEN, and it all but certainly DIDN'T mean "spaceship from outer space." This accounts for whatever added security may have been initiated in connection with the non-event, at least up to the point where Irving Newton identified the debris for what it was at Fort Worth. Even then it seems clear from the FBI (Dallas SAC) telex the descripti on the 8th Air Force intelligence office gave to Wright Field of the "object" was garbled. They described a three-dimensional object in two-dimensional terms (hence the "twenty-five feet in diameter"). Since Wright Field knew radar targets were not 25 feet in diameter, the description did not seem to conform to that of a radar target, hence the confusion, and the need to forward the debris to Wright Field, where it was identified by Colonel Marcellus Duffy (the just-previous military project officer for Mogul, who, at the time of the incident, was assigned to the Wright Field division with shared oversight responsibility for the project). As for why the incident had no ill effects on Blanchard's and Marcel's carreers, as has been pointed out repeatedly in the past (including by Yrs Trly), Blanchard was General Curtis LeMay's fair-haired boy. I know from discussions with several senior retired officers who knew both men and who worked with/for Blanchard or for whom he worked, LeMay bailed Blanchard out of difficulties more than once. All say Blanchard was a fine leader, excellent pilot, etc., but was prone to shoot from the hip, "push the envelope"--as, it will be remembered by old fuds like me, was his mentor, LeMay. Kevin Randle and others contend "hip shooters" don't become generals. Not so. I sure worked with more than a couple such in the Pentagon, and history certainly shows otherwise: LeMay (chief of staff, USAF; chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff), Patton, Chesty Puller, Montgomery, and on and on--and, of course, "Butch" Blanchard. It should also be pointed out that NOBODY who was shown the debris at Roswell could identify it. (If only they had thought to show it to their weather officer.) Ultimately, Blanchard was responsible, and nobody would have touched him, or if they tried, LeMay would have stepped in, as in fact he may have in this case. Besides, although it was embarrassing for the AAF, there is no reason to believe the hubbub resulted from anything but an honest mistake on everybody's part (and a bit of "gung ho!" on Blanchard's). I'll bet 99% of the officers in the Pentagon at the time wouldn't have been able to identify a radar target. Furthermore, with regard to the "blistering rebuke" from higher headquarters that Walter Haut says never took place (see Berlitz and Moore), I'll bet it did, and I'll bet it was done by phone directly to Blanchard, perhaps with Haut in the room and possibly listening in. If Blanchard was any kind of officer at all (and he very definitely was), he would have taken the heat for his men. In fact, since he was the commanding officer at Roswell, he had ultimate responsibility and really had no choice but to take the heat for his men. I doubt that he would have even told them about such a call. However... In a 7/90 video-taped interview with Haut conducted by Fred Whiting for the Fund for UFO Reseach, Whiting asked Haut if he could remember Blanchard ever mentioning the "flying saucer" matter after the official weather balloon line was established. Haut replied that he did, at a staff meeting a week or two later. He recalled Blanchard opening the meeting with a comment something like this: "Well, we sure shot ourselves in the foot with that balloon fiasco. It was just something from a project at Alamogordo, and some of the guys were here on our base later, too. Anyway, it's done and over with." Haut says he and the other staff officers took this to mean "no more talk about that, forget it." So they did. Unfortunately, this particular exchange didn't make it into the Fund's "Recollections of Roswell" tapes (nothing sinister here; the significance of Haut's words couldn't have been known at the time the editing was being done), but the entire, uncut interview is on tape in the Fund's files. Concerning Marcel, see the above re Blanchard taking the heat. Moreover, while he seems to have been a good officer, if a bit excitable and prone to magnify problems (as per his fitness reports), he wasn't a rated (flying or air-crew) officer, and as was noted in his fitness reports, this limited his prospects in those days. (The fact he wasn't rated is more than a bit interesting, as in 12/78, he claimed to have ~8000 hours of flight time, both as a civilian pilot and in the military.) While he may not have suffered officially from his role in the Roswell affair, at least one officer who worked for him in Washington ca. 1948-49 recalls Marcel frequently was teased about it by his peers. Marcel was released from active duty in Sept. 1950, at the height of the Korean War, on a hardship basis (to care for his aged mother) and after about two-months in Walter Reed Army Hospital. While there's nothing too odd about all this, it seems clear the USAF didn't consider him indispensable. In any event, while all of this is interesting, the fact is, it's essentially academic. The formerly classified record--created decades before FOIA--proves no flying saucer crashed in New Mexico or anywhere else in U.S. territory or jurisdiction at any time before mid-1955. Records may not have surfaced which prove what did "crash" at Roswell, but records most certainly have surfaced to show what did NOT crash at Roswell. What did NOT crash at Roswell was an alien spaceship. Twining's September 23, 1947, proves this. The companion study prepared by AF Intel at HQ USAF proves this. The minutes of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board meeting of March 17-18, 1948, prove this. The early Nov. '48 letter from AMC chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy to AF chief of intel MG Charles Cabell proves this. So do a number of other documents from the same time period and later prove this. To any reasonable person, this is CONCLUSIVE proof of what the Roswell incident did NOT involve. CASE CLOSED! -- KARL deBUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:37:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again > Date: 23 Jul 97 08:44:42 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Hi Bob, > Additionally, I have a photo copy of a piece of film similar > to those given to John Purdy in which the square and > triangle symbols are clearly visible. You will remember that I went to see John a while ago and he allowed me to inspect his film samples in detail. None of his samples-with-image have edge-codes - the strips you mention are blank. It was his opinion then, entirely based on the strength and feel of these samples (with the exception of one single-frame sample, in no way could the samples be accurately described as fragile) that they probably originated from the sixties. For all that could be ascertained at the time, the samples-with-image could be more recent, as there was no indication otherwise. This evaluation is entirely subjective, of course, but it was very much influenced by your statements that the samples in your possession were brittle. I've also handled the sample Mantle sent for analysis and that wasn't brittle either - far from it, it just seemed like normal film to me and the BBC technicians I showed it to. Yet both Mantle's and most of Purdy's samples clearly depicted the same scene as yours. I'm about as bored with this debate as you are, but this one small detail still nags me. Can you please confirm if your sample is still brittle, or suggest any reason why yours is and the others are not? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:57:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Regarding... >Date: 23 Jul 97 08:44:42 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Bob wrote: >Also, Larry Cate at Eastman Kodak's Hollywood facility was allowed >to examine one complete roll of the film, as well as the film can it >was in, which he indicates was of the proper vintage. Bob, Laurence Cate was asked for an opinion on the date of _a_ roll of film, there's no indication it was "one complete roll of _the_ film". I covered this in "The Manikin Who Fell to Earth" article and an extract might help: Further research by Robert Irving and image analysis by Theresa Carlson confirmed that the sample frames made available did not clearly show the autopsy room. The frames contain jumbled images of stairs and a doorway. Visible through the doorway is what seems to be a carpet, on top of which is a low table covered by a cloth. The table is much too low to be any table seen in the film. The only video which contains these images is "Roswell: The Footage". The frames are the very first images shown, there is a break in continuity and then the opening frames from the "autopsy" begin. As the sample frames are not contained on any of the tapes given to broadcasters, they must have been added to the beginning at a later date and before "Roswell: The Footage" was released. This was subsequently acknowledged by Ray Santilli and he explained, "The reason the frames were not included in the sell-through video or broadcast programmes is simply we could not make head or tail of the images and felt them irrelevant to the story and film itself. For that reason we only included the frames in the version of the film containing all the footage from the relevant reels. The frames were contained on the outside edge of one of the reels and were in such poor condition they fell apart on handling. We did not falsely recompile the frames which we could easily have done we presented them on the video in their natural state which is why the frames jump. The frames are part of the film, however if people wish to think otherwise that's fine by me. They are wrong". During June of 1995, Kodak in Hemel Hempstead, London were also asked by Ray Santilli and Gary Shoefield, who were by this time business partners, to verify the dating of a film strip approximately 2 inches long. This did not contain any images from the films. The edge codes indicated a date of either, 1927, 1947 or 1967, Kodak's codes repeating every 20 years. Kodak in Copenhagen were also asked to verify the dating of a similar blank strip. The film was forwarded to them by Tripple Entertainment, based in Denmark. It seems that Tripple Entertainment wished to have some film authenticated whilst negotiating with Ray Santilli's company. Again, the edge codes indicated a date of either, 1927, 1947 or 1967. Kodak in Hollywood were asked to verify what Ray Santilli terms, "film with image", however he did not clarify what the image was. Gary Shoefield took the film to Hollywood and was apparently accompanied by Don Linck, an American film producer. Laurence Cate, a salesman with Kodak, explained, "two gentlemen came into my office and they asked someone to look at a piece of film they have in a 16 mm film can, one of the old Kodak film cans that are very common". Asked what he could say about the age of the film sample, Cate confirms he explained that, "I couldn't do a scientific investigation but I could look at the edge print". The edge codes again indicated a date of either, 1927, 1947 or 1967. As for the images on the film, he clarified, "I didn't really look at the image area". "I didn't think we were looking at a scientific inquiry. There is no way I could authenticate this". [End] >Unfortunately, Cate saw the film before this became a big issue, and >he does not now recall if he looked at the images, or if he did just >what they were. This is unfortunate. When did Cate say he didn't recall if he looked at the images? That's not what he said when interviewed as above. If Volker Spielberg was subsequently and retrospectively supposed to have all of the "archive film", what was Chris Cary doing with a reel of the film in Hollywood and what does Ray claim was on that reel? Can we assume you don't know the answer? >Personally, having gotten to know Ray and his associates, I am >willing to generally accept his statements about the film. This is 2 year old rhetoric. You know what happened when you accepted Chris and Ray's claims that the film was processed by Rank in London. You were sincerely helpful in confirming to me that you now knew where the processing had taken place and when asked if you had verified this, you claimed: "Film to video transfer was done in London by Rank. After my meeting with Ray in London, I am quite comfortable with how he is handling things, and comfortable that things are being accurately represented to me. That's all I can say about that". As you appreciate, there was some scepticism about this and on the CompuServe MUFON forum, I wrote: Statement From Rank November 1995 19:14:11 One of the most significant developments of late was Bob's confirmation that, "Film to video transfer was done in London by Rank." There has to date been no evidence where the specialised and delicate work required on the 16mm film had been carried out and by whom. Surprising that this would not be broadcast, as it would go some way towards substantiating that 16mm film of some kind actually existed. Bob further confirmed that, "I asked Ray last week who did the work, and he told me Rank did it. That seems reasonable." It was important to confirm there was no misunderstanding and Bob again added some detail, courtesy presumably of Ray Santilli: "My understanding is that Rank first made a very high quality 16 mm film duplicate of the footage because it was damaged and in poor shape. The video was then made from the dupe." In his Winter 1995 newsletter, Colin Andrews had stated: "Reg (Presley) and I asked for a meeting with Santilli which was arranged for Friday the 3rd of February. I flew from New York to meet with Reg and Santilli in his London office, taking Synthia, my wife, as witness to the proceedings. Santilli explained how he came to purchase the film and how easy it had been to fly it out of the States. He was, however, having some difficulty developing the aged film. Some of the reels were worse than others, the greys were merging with the blacks and images were nondescript. The prestigious Royal Society in London agreed to assist with their high-tech computer enhancement facility. Apparently results from computer enhancement were good and Santilli said they only had a few more films to complete." Unfortunately, the Royal Society has no such facilities and had never heard of either Ray Santilli or the film. Although Bob was confident in the authenticity and accuracy of his information, it was therefore of course necessary to verify it. Having established from the Rank Organisation plc that Rank Video Services of Brentford, would undertake any such work, I asked Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO Magazine (UK) if he would like to confirm this important information on our behalf. Graham first spoke with Paul Gooderham of Rank Video Services and Paul confirmed he had seen the footage. But only on TV. He knew of it, but confirmed that Rank Video Services had not been involved with it in any capacity. He suggested speaking with Roy Liddiard at the main laboratory as he was the person with overall responsibility for such matters within the company and may be able to assist further. Roy was also very helpful and further confirmed that his company had no involvement in any capacity. He also indicated that had any similar organisation in London been responsible for handling such original 16mm film, he would certainly have expected to hear of it. There may be some misunderstanding with the information relayed to Bob and hopefully he can clarify this directly with Ray and let us know the outcome. [End] >I allow for the fact that he is a promoter, and has a tendency to >exaggerate for effect. You mean like this? : "When I asked Ray who had done the copying of the original film to a 16 mm dupe, he said that he wasn't sure. He told me that they had gone to one company who had agreed to do the work while they waited, and that this firm had then changed their story and said they would have to leave the film and come back and pick it up later, which they certainly would never have done. There was then a general conversation in the office as to who had ultimately done the work. Ray said something like 'We ended up having it done by Rank, didn't we?' and Chris said something like, 'yes, it was Rank. I'm pretty sure it was Rank'." You don't perchance get the impression that your unexpected question caused some "fudging"? "It was..errr...errmmm...who was it again Chris?...." You expect us to believe that Ray couldn't remember who had processed his priceless "archive film"? We can tell you one thing for sure, according to Rank in London, it wasn't them and they were not amused this had been claimed. But you've known about this since November of 1995, so why haven't you asked Mr Santilli for an explanation instead of continually ignoring the problem and making statements like this: "Suffice it to say that film to video transfer introduces certain artifacts, and they are present in this video. Ray's own story is that the original film was in such poor shape that he had to have it copied frame by frame onto another 16 mm film, and this makes sense...". On the subject of the supposed film to video transfer, you added, almost 2 years ago: "They promised to provide me with documentation when they had a chance". So, where is it? James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 24 D.L. Sherman Interview Now Available From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:21:46 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:51:47 -0400 Subject: D.L. Sherman Interview Now Available An email interview with former government insider Dan Sherman is now available at: www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/interview.shtml SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW From 1992 through 1994, Dan ("D.L") Sherman claims to have worked with a secret military program to communicate with aliens. He was a government specialist who received communications from alien beings and typed them on a computer terminal. His job was analogous to a communications officer on a ship receiving morse code but with more depth and greater exchange between the parties. He never saw any aliens, only communicated with them "intuitively". Sherman says he was prepared for this role by the aliens before his birth. Apparently during an abduction of his mother in 1963, his genetic structure was slightly altered to allow him to receive alien communications. He was unaware of this ability until, years later, he was briefed about it while in the Air Force. He was assigned to a program called "Project Preserve Destiny" (PPD). He was told that the purpose of the program was to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications would not work. He calls the ability "intuitive communications" (IC). His abilities were "activated" during an 8-10 week course at NSA headquarters at Fort Meade in early 1992. It was a sort of "night school" after his daytime training in another secret but conventional field. After training, Sherman's PPD duties were veiled by conventional top secret duties at two Air Force bases. While at work he would receive notification (apparently psychic), that a communication was about to begin. He would then open a special blank window on the computer terminal where he was working and would type the communication into it. He would then close the window, and the information would be sent to an unknown destination. The content of the communications ("comms") were numbers mostly. It was mainly things he did not understand, but some of the numbers he recognized as the coordinates of locations on earth. He says he received longer comms right after major space launches such as Arianne and the Shuttle. Sherman says: "During my last few months I started to receive what I thought to be abduction data. This is when I started having questions and I began to want out of the whole thing. This led to the sequence of events resulting in my discharge. I think they were testing my resolve as well because all of a sudden the comms were not totally in code anymore. I thought that was quite odd. I'm not sure what was going on but I didn't like the comms. I would be told locations, resistance levels, residual pain levels, potentiality for recall and each case that I reported would be given a code. I had no idea what the codes were but I didn't like it... bottom line. I felt like I was reporting the lab results of a bunch of mice experiments." Sherman says he left the PPD program in Dec. 1994 and obtained release from the military in April 1995 because of his discomfort with what he was learning. Sherman says he shows no evidence of psychic ability apart from communication with these aliens. Since leaving the military, he has received no further comms and has had no further contact with his previous government contacts in the program. No government agents have threatened him to keep quiet, but he fears that any improper disclosures of his "conventional" top secret work could get him in trouble. He has been working on a book, but that project has been slowed by his own concern about "legal issues." Sherman says that his communication with the aliens was two-way. He calls them complex creatures. He says that although he cannot describe them visually, "mentally, they are rigid, disciplined and mostly unemotional." He did sense compassion from them, however. "It was almost like this was their nature but they overrode this characteristic because they perhaps felt it was a weakness." An alien told him that they had been visiting earth "since the beginning." "They had made there presence known at some time in the past to our ancestors and that the whole thing went haywire somehow, so they have chosen to remain selective in their revelations since. They impacted three historical cultures in the past. Which ones they didn't say, but I have extrapolated since based on other information. I also learned that there are other alien 'species' besides the ones I commed with. The whole reason for PPD is to train a certain number of humans to be able to communicate with the aliens so as to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications will not work. I was never told what 'event' this would be, but I have my own ideas based on other information I've learned over the years." If anyone would like to ask Mr. Sherman about his experiences, he has agreed to answer questions by email. His replies will be saved and added to a new web document, so they are available to everyone and he does not have to answer the same questions repeatedly. Send queries to Dan Sherman at: ppdman@juno.com With a cc to: campbell@ufomind.com For more on Sherman, see www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/ Summary by Glenn Campbell (a neutral party) Reviewed and approved by D.L. Sherman 7/24/97 ---------- Index: D.L. Sherman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 BWW Media Alert 970725 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:21:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:43:33 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970725 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before you e-mail them something. In all cases, I'd appreciate it if you make clear that =you= are forwarding it, if you do. Thanks!) July 25, 1997 Thank you for the kind words from the folks who have been to the website. Expect it to grow in leaps and bounds, especially in the area of reading lists. I'm hoping to have all the basic areas in place by August 1. The biggest buzz this week seems to be on Fox's UFO: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE on Monday night. Haven't seen it, but several ufolks were involved. I also saw a preview for a film for the Fall based on the Cottingley fairy photographs incident. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a well-known spiritualist and author of Sherlock Holmes, championed these pictures taken by two little girls of dancing figures maybe ten centimeters (less than half a foot) tall. Unfortunately, the book doesn't seem to be in print right now. I have a copy, but that doesn't do you much good :) . Maybe it will be reissued in conjunction with the film, although I doubt they have much in common. CLICKABLE LINKS You may noticed some underlined (and possibly blue) links. This includes book titles: if you click on them, you can get more information and/or order the book. For most people, you should be able to click on that to go there. If youm are reading this on-line, it ought to be direct...if not, it may want you to sign on first. <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. FX on Thursday at 11:00 PM, the "Sightings" episode of PICKET FENCES. Wednesday, July 30 at 12:00 AM on USA, RENEGADE, the "Hard Evidence" ep, where they fight with the military over alien remains. Plucky Duck gets abducted (say that ten times quickly!) on TINY TOON ADVENTURES ep "A Quack in the Quarks" on Wed at 3:20 PM on Nickelodeon. GILLIGAN'S ISLAND is haunted in GHOST A GO GO on Friday on TNT at 7:00 AM. Don't miss THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, Saturday on Showtime at 8:30 AM. MAGAZINES, NEWSLETTERS, ETC. Gotten some good ones lately, will try and do a supplement this week. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, Patrick Huyghe's guest is Peter Murphy, an attorney from Texas, talking about astrology and the law. <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/t alk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO Home Page</A> Next week's guests not known as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 7/21 (#114R): FORBIDDEN NORTH (sasquatch); REINCARNATION --week of 7/28 (#115R): GREENHOUSE EFFECT (monster plant); THE BUZZ (a hum, like the Taos hum) Saturday, July 26 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Guests not available at press time. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: OUT OF THE BLUE (rains of unusual objects, like fish, frogs, etc. The grand-daddy of all books on this, and many other topics covered here, is <A H REF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0486230945/bufosweirdworldA/">The Complete Books of Charles Fort</A> ) 2:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV (part 1) 3:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ANCIENT PROPHECIES IV (part 2) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, LOCH NESS DISCOVERED Sunday, July 27 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com < A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Arthur Myers, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/ob idos/ISBN=0809231492/bufosweirdworldA/">COMMUNICATING WITH ANIMALS</A> LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Glennys McKay of Austrailia/QUFON on her UFO experiences. Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, UFO 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049): stories include one on ghosts and one on UFOs 11:30 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, POP-SCI, BOMB SQUAD/UFO RESEARCH/STEALTH (teens doing science) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE PUZZLE OF THE PYRAMIDS 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049): stories include one on ghosts and one on UFOs 1:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, UFOS AND ALIEN ENCOUNTERS 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049): stories include one on ghosts and one on UFOs Monday, July 28 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Hauntings (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#31): Dracula; cryptozoology; Bushmen 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51 (part 1 of 2) 8:00 PM, Fox, UFOS: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51 (part 1 of 2) Tuesday, July 29 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Healing(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#32): doppelganger; superstitions; Jenny Cockell (past life experience) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51 (their website says this is part 1 of 2 again, but I suspect it'll be 2 of 2) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51 (their website says this is part 1 of 2 again, but I suspect it'll be 2 of 2) Wednesday, July 30 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Modern Day oracle (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#33): savant syndrome; Marilyn (Monroe's) death; mummies 8:00 PM, FOX, PROPHECIES OF THE MILLENIUM Thursday, July 31 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE MEX FILES (Mexican UFO expedition) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#34): beating the odds ("challenged" kids and sports); Our Lady of the Rock; guardian angels 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5057): alien autopsy; haunted English Inn; cattle mutilations in Colorado; bigfoot; psychic detective; asteroids; the Dalai Lama 6:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND 2000 (Near-Death Experiences, among other stories) 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5057): alien autopsy; haunted English Inn; cattle mutilations in Colorado; bigfoot; psychic detective; asteroids; the Dalai Lama 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ZOMBIES: THE LIVING DEAD Friday, August 1 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ZOMBIES: THE LIVING DEAD 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#35): labyrinth; graphology; Hotel Hell (the Willow Hotel) This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:26 -0400 Subject: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? Dear List: This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. Air Guard unit sheds light on Valley's UFOs Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic "I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. By Richard Ruelas The Arizona Republic There's still the chance it was flying saucers bent on world domination, but another explanation turned up Thursday for those eerie lights spotted over Phoenix on March 13. Turns out the Maryland Air National Guard was running an exercise called Operation Snowbird along the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range southwest of Phoenix on that fabled night. They flew eight A-10s and dropped a mess of high-intensity flares on their way back to Tucson, military officials said. Since March, Arizona military bases said they had nothing in the air that would have caused the mysterious lights seen from Phoenix on March 13. But the bases didn't check visiting aircraft. That is until they were asked to by Capt. Eileen Bienz, public affairs officer for the Army and Air National Guard. She started a one-woman investigation into the luminaries. "I had one too many UFO calls," Bienz said. "I said, "I've got to figure this thing out' is what it finally came down to." What Bienz found out about was Operation Snowbird, which brings in aircraft from bases in the northern United States from November to April. Hence the name. A flight schedule from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, shows that a squadron of planes from Operation Snowbird left at 8:15 p.m. on March 13 and returned at 10:30 p.m. A spokesman for Luke Air Force Base confirmed that the Maryland planes were authorized to use the Barry Goldwater range from 9:30 to 10 p.m. on March 13. According to Village Labs in Tempe, which used reports to create computer simulations of the lights, the lights came to a rest near the Estrella Mountains southwest of Phoenix. There were also reports of huge balls of lights that suddenly disappeared. The Phoenix lights gained national attention in June after an article in USA Today. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Phoenix City Councilwoman Francis Emma Barwood asked for an Air Force investigation. Neither could be reached for comment Thursday. The lights entered UFO folklore. They were referenced liberally by Art Bell, host of a late-night radio show focusing on the paranormal. The V-shaped Phoenix lights made it onto T-shirts sold at the 50th anniversary celebration in Roswell, N.M. The lights also prompted a bizarre news conference by Gov. Fife Symington, who trotted out an aide dressed in an alien costume. Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything spotted that night. The planes don't match up with reports of lights coming in from the north, zooming through Phoenix and popping up again near Kingman. But Bienz is trying to find the origin of those as well. But the Operation Snowbird planes might account for the lights seen near 10 p.m. in the west, the sightings that have provided most of the videotape and photographs seen around the country. "Our guys did create, while they were up there, an event that this one colonel told me could be perceived as a hell of a light show," said Capt. Drew Sullins, of the Maryland Air National Guard. Sullins said the planes were probably in a formation, then peeled off one or two at a time to perform the run, Sullins said. During the run, they would drop high-intensity flares, called Luu-2, made of either magnesium or cesium, Sullins said. The flares are suspended by a tiny parachute and take a long time to drop, Sullins said. The planes completed their required runs and their time at the busy range was coming to a close. But the A-10s still had a bunch of flares on board, and Davis-Monthan doesn't let planes land with flares aboard. "I don't know the logic of that rule, but I imagine it's a safety thing," Sullins said. So as they were leaving the range, the planes jettisoned their flares. The flares would visible for a great distance as they slowly floated down, said Keith Shepherd, spokesman for Davis-Monthan. "(Our pilots) told me that at 6,000 feet and using those types of flares, you can see them from 150 miles away on a good night," Shepherd said. Jim Delitoso of Village Labs was at a loss for words when told of the Snowbird planes. When he got his bearings back, he said that optical analysis of photos and videotapes show the lights couldn't be flares and that a computer simulation matching witness accounts places the lights nowhere near the gunnery range. "I'm open-minded that it could be flares, but we have no evidence of that," Delitoso said. The Maryland Air National Guard is also keeping an open mind, said Sullins, its spokesman. "All I'm saying is, yes, we had aircraft flying in that area doing night illuminations." he said. "These guys were flying it. They were there. We can prove it. Whether people want to believe it was the mysterious lights, it's up to them."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:56 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:49:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:40:50 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Steve, After I posted that about the archeologist who penetrateted Area 51 security I heard from Glenn Campbell. As would be expected, he's on top of the story. You'll find more info and good links at http://www.ufomind.com/people/f/freeman/ Go take a look at this. Very interesting. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:58 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:57:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:57:26 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Bob wrote: > >>Also, Larry Cate at Eastman Kodak's Hollywood facility was allowed >>to examine one complete roll of the film, as well as the film can it >>was in, which he indicates was of the proper vintage. > > >Bob, >Laurence Cate was asked for an opinion on the date of _a_ roll of >film, there's no indication it was "one complete roll of _the_ film". >I covered this in "The Manikin Who Fell to Earth" article and an >extract might help: >Further research by Robert Irving and image analysis by Theresa >Carlson confirmed that the sample frames made available did not >clearly show the autopsy room. >The frames contain jumbled images of stairs and a doorway. Visible >through the doorway is what seems to be a carpet, on top of which is >a low table covered by a cloth. The table is much too low to be any >table seen in the film. >The only video which contains these images is "Roswell: The Footage". >The frames are the very first images shown, there is a break in >continuity and then the opening frames from the "autopsy" begin. [snip] James, As I indicated in my post, I have neither the time nor the interest in debating any of this. I'm sorry you wasted your time in compiling such a long message. Larry Cate's statement which I mentioned was made less than a month ago. He says he does not remember what was on the film he examined. My interpretation, and mine only, is that he simply does not want to be drawn into this mess. If you don't believe that Ray could have forgotten or not known who did the processing of the film, it just shows how little you really know about this whole subject. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:59 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:58:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:18:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Rob, My statement almost three years ago about the film being brittle was based on its physical condition. I have not tried to break the samples I have, as I am preserving them in original condition in the hope of eventually getting proper testing to confirm age. Purdy's belief that the film could come from the 60s is totally subjective, and based, in part, on his firm belief that the whole thing is a hoax. You are right that I have grown tired of endless debate over trivia while the important issues are mostly ignored/avoided. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:07:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:10:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:18:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >> Date: 23 Jul 97 08:44:42 EDT >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >> Additionally, I have a photo copy of a piece of film similar >> to those given to John Purdy in which the square and >> triangle symbols are clearly visible. >You will remember that I went to see John a while ago and >he allowed me to inspect his film samples in detail. None of >his samples-with-image have edge-codes - the strips you >mention are blank. It was his opinion then, entirely based on >the strength and feel of these samples (with the exception of >one single-frame sample, in no way could the samples be >accurately described as fragile) that they probably originated >from the sixties. For all that could be ascertained at the time, >the samples-with-image could be more recent, as there was >no indication otherwise. If you happen to see John again, you might ask why he has not done more in the way of testing of the film samples that he has been given. It is alleged that he believes they are from film made in the 60's, but he certainly was given enough of it to actually perform a valid test. I sent a snail mail letter to him asking this question more than a year ago, but didn't get any response. It appears that you may If you happen to see John again, you might ask why he has not done more in the way of testing of the film samples that he has been given. It is alleged that he believes they are from film made in the 60's, but he certainly was given enough of it to actually perform a valid test. I sent a snail mail letter to him asking this question more than a yearago, but didn't get any response. It appears that you may have better luck.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 BWW Media Alert 970725 Supp From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 05:38:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:59:54 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970725 Supp Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before you e-mail them something. In all cases, I'd appreciate it if you make clear that =you= are forwarding it, if you do. Thanks!) July 25, 1997 Supplement (received too late to go out in the first mailing): Saturday, July 26 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Specific spots must be considered tentative. 5:00 PM, Reilly G., a former New York cop, now a psychic detective; 5:15 PM, David Morehouse, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0312147 082/bufosweirdworldA/">Psychic Warrior : Inside the Cia's Stargate Program</A> , and allegedly a participant in this government-sponsored program to train people to use psychic abilities to spy; 6:00, two people who claim shared alien abduction experiences discuss their book, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.co m/exec/obidos/ISBN=0926524356/bufosweirdworldA/">Connections : Solving Our Ali en Abduction Mystery</A> ; 6:40 PM, ALIEN ABDUCTION VERIFICATION KIT...something put together by a couple of comedians; 7:00 PM, Dr. Joe Lewels, on what contact with aliens might mean (author of <A HREF="http://www .amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0926524402/bufosweirdworldA/">The God Hypothesis< /A> ); 7:30 PM, speaking with Bob Kiviat, whose production company has previously done the Alien Autopsy special for Fox, and who is the Executive Producer on that Network's Monday special, UFOS: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE. CLICKABLE LINKS You may noticed some underline (and possibly blue) links. This includes book titles: if you click on them, you can get more information and/or order the book. For most people, you should be able to click on that to go there. If youm are reading this on-line, it ought to be direct...if not, it may want you to sign on first. <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:54 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:52:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:45:27 +0100 Good post Mark. I've argued for years that the contact/abduction phenomenon has been with us as long as we have existed as humans, and probably well before, and that how we interpret it is a function of the zeitgeist of the time. Kevin chooses to call it pop culture. Same thing. Until we realize that today's intertpretation as "alien abduction" is most likely no closer to the truth than stories of fairies, elves, demons, etc., it is unlikely we will make much progress in getting at what is really going on. There are two factors which need to be studied: the way the human brain processes particular information, and the external experience which causes this particular interpretation of information. Not much attention is being paid to either by current abduction researchers. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:10:56 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:41:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:00:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies >A careful reading of The Randle Report will show that I have >reservations about the McCarthy test ... Your characterization of the McCarthy polygraph test is that it "SPEAKS VOLUMES" [my emphasis] about Walton. This, we're suppo- sed to believe, is your style of expressing strong reservations about it?!? I'll buy that when hell freezes over, Kevin. >And, when we get to a point where a story has been told so often, has >been shared with the world, has been documented in books, and in which >the subject has undergone hypnotic regression, the the results of a >test administered some twenty years after the fact might be flawed. Oh yes, that's the inventive twist you came up with. What you are saying is that Walton convinced himself the event was true, or for most part the retelling and regression made it 'easier' for him to lie, and this then accounts for Walton's passing of the 1993 test. The bottom line then is, according to Kev, Walton's a pathological liar influenced by his own story and books. If true, could he beat the polygraph? Dr. Honts makes it perfectly clear "the suggestion that telling a story over and over would make you comfortable with the story and enable you to pass the test is most unlikely." There simply is no empirical support for Kevin's wild contentions here. How you're willing to extend this to the rest of the involved par- ties is an even greater conundrum. Are you saying Dalis and Rogers too had become top-experts in beating a state-of-the-art polygraph test? This probability is simply vanishingly small, leaving in sum (given combinatorial probability), highly conclusive confidence in the validity of their claim. The bottom line is that you are not adding anything of substantive value here, Kevin. Instead, you just reiterate your, by now _very_ familiar, arguments without exhibiting any indications of willing- ness to consider the variety of scathing criticisms offered. I am sure the phrase "don't bother me with the facts... my mind is made up," is applicable here. >But the real point is that I reject the Walton case, not only >because of the failed, or allegedly failed polygraphs, but on >other evidence as well. We must look at the whole package and >not just a small segment of it. Look at the deception of both >the Lorenzens and the Waltons concerning the first test. That >is very revealing. The only thing that comes to mind here is... Huh? Where's the causal relationship between APRO's supression of the McCarthy results and Walton's alleged lying? I fail to see how APRO's clumsy, and irresponsible, handling of the McCarthy polygraph test result would have any significant bearing on the overall truthfulness of Walton's account. Especially considering that the McCarthy test itself is utterly useless. >As for Gulf Breeze, the polygraph information is just one small >part of the whole picture. Again, it is all the other evidence >that I find to be persuasive when arguing against the reality of >the Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze sightings. Details, Kev. I want details. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: D. Bunkerism From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:08 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:01:06 -0400 Subject: Re: D. Bunkerism Hi, everybody, The individual who insists on signing his name "Karl deBunker" or "Karl D. Bunker" castigates ufologists for disdaining the term "debunker." They're hardly alone. I've even heard my old friend Joe Nickell, CSICOP's principal investigator, distance himself from the d-word. Marcello Truzzi has usefully defined the difference between the skeptic and the debunker. The skeptic is one who doubts, the debunker one who denies. It is infinitely easier to be the latter. The skeptic has to acknowledge the frequent presence of ambiguity, the impossibility of final answers to some of the most interesting questions, and the possibility that he or she may be wrong, too, even about treasured beliefs (such as that, say, the object at Roswell was a Mogul balloon). A debunker has the smug, but ultimately self-deluding, pleasure of declaring certainty even when none exists. Certainty is not the first noun that comes to my mind when I think of questions related to anomalies and the paranormal. Debunking as applied to limited, specific issues where real answers are attainable is, of course, useful and necessary. As a defining philosophical principle, however, it is, in my opinion, intellectually and practically indefensible. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:34:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! > > This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also > the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" > Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears > that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland > and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, > just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. > Air Guard unit sheds light on Valley's UFOs > Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic > "I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. > > By Richard Ruelas > The Arizona Republic > > There's still the chance it was flying saucers bent on world domination, > but another explanation turned up Thursday for those eerie lights > spotted over Phoenix on March 13. > Turns out the Maryland Air National Guard was running an exercise called > Operation Snowbird along the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range southwest of > Phoenix on that fabled night. .... > .... > A spokesman for Luke Air Force Base confirmed that the Maryland planes > were authorized to use the Barry Goldwater range from 9:30 to 10 p.m. on > March 13. ... > Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything spotted > that night. The planes don't match up with reports of lights coming in > from the north, zooming through Phoenix and popping up again near > Kingman. But Bienz is trying to find the origin of those as well. > > But the Operation Snowbird planes might account for the lights seen near > 10 p.m. in the west, the sightings that have provided most of the > videotape and photographs seen around the country. Hello List, What the negative skeptic shouldn't forget is that it was the UFOs reported around 8:15 pm in the Prescott-Phoenix area that created all the excitement, and that have not been explained as man-made or natural objects. This was the very large triangular object, with various lights on its periphery, described at times as a V formation of lights. I suppose a two-hour time error doesn't matter much to someone who would dismiss a 7- or 10-year time discrepancy between witnesses to alien bodies and dropped dummies. But it should certainly matter to anyone who would wish to call himself a ufologist. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:23:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! [most stuff snipped] Thanks for posting this Kal. And thanks to Richard Motzer, the MUFON investigator who said these were military flares, as well. He took a lot of flack for that, but maybe now he's been vindicated. No doubt that the people who already "know" the Phoenix lights were ET spacecraft will not be convinced. There is one mystery yet to be solved: > Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything spotted > that night. The planes don't match up with reports of lights coming in > from the north, zooming through Phoenix and popping up again near > Kingman. But Bienz is trying to find the origin of those as well. Those appear to be the mystery. It would be great if someone could explain these sightings as well. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Russian UFO Info Needed From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:21:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:35:08 -0400 Subject: Russian UFO Info Needed Dear colleagues, I am in the process of trying to research UFO sightings in Russian and/or what was the Soviet Union. I would therefore appreciate it if you could let me know of any UFO researchers, organsations, web sites that cover such information. I am looking for UFO sightings, abductions, photographs, just about anything to do with UFFO's so long as it is from Russia. My aim is to publish a comprehensive list of this information on the Internet at a later date. Any assistance with this request is greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle, 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW. Tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:59:24 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:18:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! >Dear List: >This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >Air Guard unit sheds >light on Valley's UFOs >Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. >By Richard Ruelas >The Arizona Republic >There's still the chance it was flying saucers bent on world domination, >but another explanation turned up Thursday for those eerie lights >spotted over Phoenix on March 13. >Turns out the Maryland Air National Guard was running an exercise called >Operation Snowbird along the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range southwest of >Phoenix on that fabled night. >They flew eight A-10s and dropped a mess of high-intensity flares on >their way back to Tucson, military officials said. Hi Kal, I am glad you're back on Updates. Love to debate you. (No sarcasm intended). The report above from the Arizona Republic is interesting. Not because it explains the Phoenix March sightings, but because it underlines what I'm constantly trying to point out on this forum, namely that people shouldn't bother trying to get their Air Force to explain UFOs. >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen >Bienz. I can understand that fully. These people have work to do. If I were him I would send them fishing too and would even go so far as to present bogus explanations if that would help. I would study UFOs in my spare time. The Phoenix sightings: . there were dozens of reports of a massive triangle that moved around 30 mph and made no sound. No matter how people try to explain this away, this behavior is outside the performance envelope of known terrestrial aircraft, so air force exercises can be ruled out. It had seven lights on it in triangular formation. As far as I know this is not US Air Force standard lighting configuration. Finally: secret planes are used secretly, not over Phoenix. So what is it? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:32:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon Greetings to The List -- Here's a correction and a clarification to my post of yesterday re the impact of the Roswell non-UFO-crash on the careers of Blanchard and Marcel. Yesterday I wrote (snipped at ellipses): "Concerning Marcel,...he wasn't a rated (flying or air-crew) officer, and...this limited his prospects in those days. (The fact he wasn't rated is more than a bit interesting, as in 12/78, he claimed to have ~8000 hours of flight time, both as a civilian pilot and in the military.)" The interview in question, with reporter Bob Pratt, was in December 1979 (not '78), on December 8, to be exact. Marcel said he had 3000 hours as a pilot, plus an additional 5000 hours "flying time," for a total of 8000 hours. As any pilot will tell you, that's quite a few hours, impressive even for a pro. For comparison, my son in law, a 1990 grad of the Air Force Academy, is an Air Force pilot (KC-135R tankers), and is just now coming up on his 1000th hour and has just qualified as an aircraft commander. -- Ad astra!..., KARL deBUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 25 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:21:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:38:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! >Dear List: >This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >Air Guard unit sheds >light on Valley's UFOs >Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. (snip) >They flew eight A-10s and dropped a mess of high-intensity flares on >their way back to Tucson, military officials said. Hello Kal, hi All, This 'flare' explaination does not address how this (alleged) military operation flew to all of the locations in Arizona (and in the time they were reported to have taken place) on that single night. Did they set flares off over Kingman, (up in the northwest corner of the state where they were also reported on the same night) and then Tempe and Phoenix and again further south? These 'flares' were said to have gone straight up in the air by several local witnesses. Any military man will tell you that flares don't manouver or 'go up' after they have burned. If I ruled the world, FOIA requests would be initiated in order to scare up any associated paperwork. ie; parameters and scope of the manouvers, and budget allocations for this operation. Something like that would leave a paper trail a mile wide and involve an awful lot of people. I don't buy that Luke didn't know about an operation as 'visible' as this one was. I have video of the event that was taken from several different vantage points by local folks. These things ( whatever they were) did not behave like 'flares.' >Since March, Arizona military bases said they had nothing in the air >that would have caused the mysterious lights seen from Phoenix on March >13. But the bases didn't check visiting aircraft. They were not aware of an event that was witnessed by several hundred (maybe thousands) statewide! And it takes them four months to come back with the same flare theory that was dismissed three months ago. Wonderful. >A spokesman for Luke Air Force Base confirmed that the Maryland planes >were authorized to use the Barry Goldwater range from 9:30 to 10 p.m. on >March 13. According to several local newscasts Luke had denied any knowledge of (any) operations from the very begining. Now they "confirm." I am still waiting for someone to interview the commercial pilot that radiod in to Phoenix airport tower that he had unidentified traffic directly over him. The tower personels' response to the pilot was that they showed (nothing on radar) in his vicinity. This according to two newscasts, one by channel 15 ABC affiliate and one by channel 10 FOX affiliate. No one is even attempting to deal with the witness testimony. As if they didn't count. They have alot to answer for if they are assuming responsibility for answering at all. The apparition of the lights was not (just) over Phoenix, and was witnessed by a large number of people. 'Excersizes' involving flares just doesn' begin to address any of it. >The lights entered UFO folklore. That's cute, "folklore" what a quaint way to dismiss something as potentially important as this. >Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything spotted >that night. The planes don't match up with reports of lights coming in >from the north, zooming through Phoenix and popping up again near >Kingman. But Bienz is trying to find the origin of those as well. We'll all wait for this one. Who knows, maybe the military in their zeal set off flares over every major town and city in Arizona! I don't think so. Still awaiting a 'serious' investigation. Don't be so quick to dismiss these sightings Kal, there's more to them than the airforce will have us all believe. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:32:31 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:06:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! >Dear List: >This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >Air Guard unit sheds >light on Valley's UFOs >Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. >By Richard Ruelas >The Arizona Republic >There's still the chance it was flying saucers bent on world domination, >but another explanation turned up Thursday for those eerie lights >spotted over Phoenix on March 13. >Turns out the Maryland Air National Guard was running an exercise called >Operation Snowbird along the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range southwest of >Phoenix on that fabled night. >They flew eight A-10s and dropped a mess of high-intensity flares on >their way back to Tucson, military officials said. >Since March, Arizona military bases said they had nothing in the air >that would have caused the mysterious lights seen from Phoenix on March >13. But the bases didn't check visiting aircraft. >That is until they were asked to by Capt. Eileen Bienz, public affairs >officer for the Army and Air National Guard. She started a one-woman >investigation into the luminaries. >"I had one too many UFO calls," Bienz said. "I said, "I've got to figure >this thing out' is what it finally came down to." >What Bienz found out about was Operation Snowbird, which brings in >aircraft from bases in the northern United States from November to >April. Hence the name. >A flight schedule from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, shows that a >squadron of planes from Operation Snowbird left at 8:15 p.m. on March 13 >and returned at 10:30 p.m. >A spokesman for Luke Air Force Base confirmed that the Maryland planes >were authorized to use the Barry Goldwater range from 9:30 to 10 p.m. on >March 13. >According to Village Labs in Tempe, which used reports to create >computer simulations of the lights, the lights came to a rest near the >Estrella Mountains southwest of Phoenix. There were also reports of huge >balls of lights that suddenly disappeared. >The Phoenix lights gained national attention in June after an article in >USA Today. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Phoenix City Councilwoman >Francis Emma Barwood asked for an Air Force investigation. Neither could >be reached for comment Thursday. >The lights entered UFO folklore. They were referenced liberally by Art >Bell, host of a late-night radio show focusing on the paranormal. The >V-shaped Phoenix lights made it onto T-shirts sold at the 50th >anniversary celebration in Roswell, N.M. >The lights also prompted a bizarre news conference by Gov. Fife >Symington, who trotted out an aide dressed in an alien costume. >Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything spotted >that night. The planes don't match up with reports of lights coming in >from the north, zooming through Phoenix and popping up again near >Kingman. But Bienz is trying to find the origin of those as well. >But the Operation Snowbird planes might account for the lights seen near >10 p.m. in the west, the sightings that have provided most of the >videotape and photographs seen around the country. >"Our guys did create, while they were up there, an event that this one >colonel told me could be perceived as a hell of a light show," said >Capt. Drew Sullins, of the Maryland Air National Guard. >Sullins said the planes were probably in a formation, then peeled off >one or two at a time to perform the run, Sullins said. >During the run, they would drop high-intensity flares, called Luu-2, >made of either magnesium or cesium, Sullins said. The flares are >suspended by a tiny parachute and take a long time to drop, Sullins >said. >The planes completed their required runs and their time at the busy >range was coming to a close. But the A-10s still had a bunch of flares >on board, and Davis-Monthan doesn't let planes land with flares aboard. >"I don't know the logic of that rule, but I imagine it's a safety >thing," Sullins said. >So as they were leaving the range, the planes jettisoned their flares. >The flares would visible for a great distance as they slowly floated >down, said Keith Shepherd, spokesman for Davis-Monthan. >"(Our pilots) told me that at 6,000 feet and using those types of >flares, you can see them from 150 miles away on a good night," Shepherd >said. >Jim Delitoso of Village Labs was at a loss for words when told of the >Snowbird planes. >When he got his bearings back, he said that optical analysis of photos >and videotapes show the lights couldn't be flares and that a computer >simulation matching witness accounts places the lights nowhere near the >gunnery range. >"I'm open-minded that it could be flares, but we have no evidence of >that," Delitoso said. >The Maryland Air National Guard is also keeping an open mind, said >Sullins, its spokesman. >"All I'm saying is, yes, we had aircraft flying in that area doing night >illuminations." he said. "These guys were flying it. They were there. We >can prove it. Whether people want to believe it was the mysterious >lights, it's up to them." Here we go again! One week the Airforce claims some of the objects were flares, then they deny it. Now their flares again but pointing the finger to another military division. If it takes nearly 4 months for them to search their records, God forbid we need the AZ military to ever defend us in a time of need. This is a usual "muddy the waters" tactic. They have put out some many stories it confuses the public until they get sick of hearing about it. How can we trust a military for answers when they are the ones covering up UFOs in the first place Even now after 4 months the military again is claiming to have shot flares off at Barry Goldwater Air Force Range. It is nowhere near the location the videotapes were shot. Its a cheap shot by the military, in hope the public buys their latest story. Its impossible to see the training exercises that take place down their from the locations the videos were shot at. There are simply too many mountains blocking the Goldwater Range to view their flares. The Republic also forgot to address how this new story ties in when the objects were taped directly over the city. The MUFON investigator Richard Motzer has jumped ship about as many times as the military has so far. In recent developments it was discovered he isn't a field investigator for MUFON. Apparently he didn't pass the test and is still a field investigator trainee. Although MUFON of AZ has many official field investigators to investigate the mass sighting, State Director Tom Taylor who has passed many favors to Motzer, let him single handedly investigate this case on behalf of MUFON. Taylor won't pass any information on to field investigators that are qualified by MUFON So you can believe the four or five versions put out by the military, Tom Taylor and his trainee, or the eyewitnesses, and videos taken that night I don't care what the military says. I videotaped these lights and we didn't see any flares Tom King Arizona Skywatch director OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 UFO NewsClipping Service phone number From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:36:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:13:51 -0400 Subject: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number If anyone can help David with this request can they reply to him direct please: ===================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:08:56 -0400 From: Sandra Meret <smeret@yorku.ca Organization: York University To: john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Subject: Newsclippings I was wondering if you had a phone number or any other info. that would help me get in contact with the "UFO NewsClipping Service" in Arkansas. It's on the website but they offer no contact info. I'm producing a documentary and am in desperate need of news clippings. Any Suggestions? Sincerely, David Toronto, Ontario ================== John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:36:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:17:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:00:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lie Detection in UFO Controversies [...] >But the real point is that I reject the Walton case, not only >because of the failed, or allegedly failed polygraphs, but on >other evidence as well. We must look at the whole package and >not just a small segment of it. Look at the deception of both >the Lorenzens and the Waltons concerning the first test. That >is very revealing. That's a pretty poor example, and doesn't support your point well at all. The McCarthy test was arranged and owned by the Enquirer. It's a little ridiculous to expect that, under the circumstances (e.g. intense media pressure, and his negative personal experience with McCarthy) Walton should have held a press conference on his own initiative, bucking the advice of folks like Harder and Lorenzen, and broke the story on the McCarthy test (now ceded to be useless) The suppression of the test is a significant issue, but it has more relevance for UFOlogy than Walton. It's hard to condemn Lorenzen completely for his initial decision, he knew what the media would make of the results, and his argument that the test was inadequate has been vindicated (although its not clear on what basis he made the decision at the time.) But then APRO compounded the crime by actively covering it up, even apparently denying the existence of the test to other investigators. That constitutes a scandal. The suppression ultimately was a tremendous boon for Klass, lending credibility to his otherwise largely innuendo-based opposition, and was perhaps even single handedly responsible for Klass' success in billing the case as a hoax to the interested public, even among many who are sympathetic to UFO reality (ahem). The scope of my article was limited to the use (and misuse) of PDD evidence, so it wasn't intended to challenge any other arguments you made about the case. But in your conclusion of the chapter you did seem to be giving the McCarthy test lead billing. What "other evidence" are you referring to? Thankfully, you reject without much comment Klass' quixotic and silly (no offense, Phil) "forest contract theory". The best I can think of is the "acetone" issue, where Walton firmly believes he lost something like ten pounds during his disappearance, but shows no signs of serious starvation in blood tests. You yourself reviewed this issue and expressed some doubt about its significance as far as establishing hoax. Duane's kooky comments in the Sylvanus interview? Definitely eyebrow-raising, some of them, but hardly compelling or unambiguous evidence of hoax on his part. The bottom line is that you've got six witnesses attesting to a point-blank encounter with a glowing, reflective, blue-beam flashing saucer in the woods, and no reasonable doubt about whether they're being truthful. That much would get Travis through a normal trial-by-law without much difficulty if all you can muster against him is this silliness with APRO/the National Enquirer suppressing their test results. A skeptical outlook can say, "I'm not convinced", but there is hardly sufficient grounds to affirmatively rule the case a hoax. Doing so on flimsy grounds is a disservice to the folks involved >Finally, according to your report, as many as one in four >polygraph tests might be invalid. Other figures suggest one in >ten. This is the reason that the polygraph is not used to prove >guilt or innocence. I stated, I hope clearly, that I think "there is sufficient evidence of the validity of polygraph testing to justify its use as one form of supporting evidence in the evaluation of UFO and other 'extraordinary' claims, particularly in multiple witness situations" -- which is clearly different from using it as a final word on guilt or innocence, which should absolutely not be done However, you're glossing over the other side of the equation, the fact that if polygraph has any significant validity at all, it can be used to reject the possibility of gross hoax (by all participants) in multiple witness situations to a very high degree of confidence. Geoff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Alien Autopsy once again From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:26:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:24:54 -0400 Subject: Alien Autopsy once again The Duke of Mondoz, aka Prince Monolulu II, presents his compliments. >Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:58 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >If you don't believe that Ray could have forgotten or not >known who did the processing of the film, it just shows how >little you really know about this whole subject. Brother TimeSpoke, religious advisor and in-castle remote viewer to the House of Mendoza, reports the following scene acquired by telepathic means: Representative of Her Majesty's Department of Legal Theft (alias the Inland Revenue): "I can see you don't splash out much on shaving gear Mr Santilli - not that that would be an allowable expense of course [titters unctuously], but I see you have an item of several thousand pounds marked 'To processing Autopsy Film', with no receipts attached, that you wish to claim against tax." Santilli: "Ah. Yes. Well. Sorry about that squire. Bit of an oversight on Sharon's part, I speckt. Can't recall exactly who dunnit meself, actually. I mean that's what I pay people like Sharon for. Know what I mean?" HM Thief: "But you do have the receipts, Mr Santilli?" Santilli: "Oh, please. Call me Ray. Er, well, it's like this. Sharon - she keeps the books, I speckt you saw her on the way in, nice, eh? - she said some J. Arthur character done it. Ha ha. Know what I mean? Very expensive job that. Worth every penny though. Got class, that has. Oh yes." HM Thief: "But you do have the receipts somewhere, Mr Santilli?" Santilli: "Look, we're only talking a few grand here, y'know. I mean for all I know Sharon left the receipt in her jeans when she took 'em to the laundrette. Not that there'd be a lot of room to put - " HM Thief (wearily): "Then perhaps you have an invoice, Mr Santilli?" Santilli: "Well, it all depends on how you look at it..." (etc, etc) Having completed his report Brother TimeSpoke confessed to me that he has no faith whatever in his capacities as a remote viewer and expressed his conviction that, whatever the vagaries of Mr Santilli's memory, all he has to do to establish who processed any film at any time on his behalf is apply to his counting house. (TimeSpoke uses these archaic terms in the hope of convincing me that he is unworldly. Fat chance.) TimeSpoke thinks it unlikely that Mr Santilli would "miss a trick" when it came to matters of reasonable business expenses, and made several constructive suggestions as to how the Mendoza dynasty's finances could benefit from certain offshore accounts run by his cousin the Cardinal. Brother TimeSpoke also breathes through his feet. Yours &c PumpKin D. Moondance Fierce Bad Rabbit
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:32:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:59:24 +0200 (MET DST) > Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:18:30 -0400 > Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > The report above from the Arizona Republic is interesting. > Not because it explains the Phoenix March sightings, but > because it underlines what I'm constantly trying to point > out on this forum, namely that people shouldn't bother > trying to get their Air Force to explain UFOs. The Air Force didn't explain these. To the best of my knowledge the Air Ntl. Guard is not the same as the Air Force. >>"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen >>Bienz. > I can understand that fully. These people have work to do. > If I were him I would send them fishing too and would even > go so far as to present bogus explanations if that would > help. I would study UFOs in my spare time. Doesn't sound like a bogus explanation to me. Sounds like the MD Air Guard was in the area unloading flares. > The Phoenix sightings: > there were dozens of reports of a massive triangle > that moved around 30 mph and made no sound. Yes, and the article said that they could not explain those sightings. What you have failed to understand is that Phoenix Sightings were NOT ONE EVENT. There were multiple events on March 13. This explanation was given for the 10:00 pm event. That's the one we have seen all the video from. > No matter how people try to explain this away, this behavior is > outside the performance envelope of known terrestrial aircraft, > so air force exercises can be ruled out. Before you rule anything out, read the reports (all of them), talk to the investigators (all of them, not just the ones who support your theory). And familiarize yourself with the case. > Finally: secret planes are used secretly, not over Phoenix. > So what is it? The 10:00 pm lights apparently weren't over Phoenix either. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: D. Bunkerism From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:35:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:35:13 -0400 Subject: Re: D. Bunkerism The individual who insists on signing himself the Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments and wishes the best of Gus Cannon to Jerry Clark. >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:08 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: D. Bunkerism >The skeptic has to acknowledge the frequent presence of ambiguity, >the impossibility of final answers to some of the most interesting >questions, and the possibility that he or she may be wrong, too, >even about treasured beliefs (such as that, say, the object at >Roswell was a Mogul balloon). >Debunking as applied to limited, specific issues where real >answers are attainable is, of course, useful and necessary. As a >defining philosophical principle, however, it is, in my opinion, >intellectually and practically indefensible. Well and usefully said - although one should not overlook the possibility that mystery man K. deBunker is being ironic - unusual (and largely incomprehensible) as that habit is in the United States outside the city limits of Cambridge, Massachusetts. So what he is doing cruising the strip in Albuquerque I do not know. We already have the handy term "paranoid" and the slightly longer "barking loonies" to cover those who see every attempt to debunk "limited, specific issues" as the work of the NWO, CIA, NSA, Vince Johnson, my own employer, and others of like nature. Now what we need is a word to define the yet vaster numbers of the misguided who seem to regard any attempt to interpret *any* UFO event in mundane terms as blasphemy, bigotry, debunkery and dishonesty. Oh, and "noisy negativism", too. ("You know who you are"!) (In which respect, Jerry, someone on this List and I cannot think of one better qualified than you, ought to come to the rescue of the reputation of Vicente Ballester-Olmos, lately slandered by a bunch of censorious Spanish stalinists in defiance of the facts.) I never have been happy with the term "True Believer", while "bunkist" just sounds like someone with a prejudice about where they sleep, and most of us suffer from that. For once at a loss for a word Parsnip D. Meatmuncher Rubbish Collector
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: CNN: Arizona Lights Might Have Been Air From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:24:07 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:37:04 -0400 Subject: Re: CNN: Arizona Lights Might Have Been Air Found on CNN's site at: http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/25/desert.lights.ap/index.html=20 The video links are in brackets. =20 =20 Arizona lights might have been Air National Guard July 25, 1997 Web posted at: 1:53 p.m. EDT (1753 GMT)=20 PHOENIX (AP) -- Arizona may have Maryland to thank for those mysterious lights seen over Phoenix in March that gave rise to measureless UFO speculation.=20 And Capt. Eileen Bienz of the Arizona National Guard to thank for finding that out.=20 "I had one too many UFO calls," the Arizona Guard spokeswoman said Thursday. "I said, 'I've got to figure this thing out' is what it finally came down to."=20 Bienz staged a one-person probe after city officials said they could do nothing and the Air Force rejected even Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain's request for investigation.=20 She learned that on March 13, when area authorities were inundated by callers questioning the origin of a boomerang formation of lights over the Phoenix valley, the Maryland Air National Guard was running an exercise called Operation Snowbird along the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range to the southwest.=20 She also learned that the Maryland force flew eight A-10s and dropped high-intensity flares on the way back to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base at Tucson.=20 Arizona military bases had said they had nothing in the air that would have caused the lights. They found otherwise when, under urging by Bienz, they checked into visiting aircraft.=20 Operation Snowbird brings aircraft from bases in the northern United States into Arizona from November to April.=20 (Amateur video of the lights seen over Phoenix=20 1.2MB/24 sec. Small QuickTime movie 1.7MB/20 sec. Large QuickTime movie)=20 A Davis-Monthan flight schedule shows a squadron of Operation Snowbird planes left at 8:15 p.m. on March 13 and returned at 10:30 p.m.=20 A spokesman for Luke Air Force Base confirmed that the Maryland planes were authorized to use the Goldwater range from 9:30 to 10 that night.=20 According to Village Labs in Tempe, which used reports to create computer simulations of the lights, the lights came to a rest near the Estrella Mountains southwest of Phoenix. There also were reports of huge balls of lights that suddenly disappeared.=20 Bienz said the Snowbird planes don't explain away everything reported that night. They don't match with reports of lights coming in from the north, zooming through Phoenix and showing up again near Kingman.=20 She's trying to find the origin of those as well.=20 But Snowbird planes might account for the lights seen near 10 p.m. in the west, the sightings that provided most of the videotape and photographs.=20 "Our guys did create, while they were up there, an event that this one colonel told me could be perceived as a hell of a light show," said Capt. Drew Sullins of the Maryland Guard.=20 Sullins said the planes were probably in a formation, then peeled off one or two at a time to perform runs during which they would drop high-intensity flares, called Luu-2, made of either magnesium or cesium.=20 The flares are suspended by a tiny parachute, may be visible for over a hundred miles and take a long time to drop, Sullins and others said.=20 When the planes had completed their required runs, they still had a bunch of flares left, and Davis-Monthan doesn't allow planes to land with flares aboard -- so they jettisoned the remaining flares as they left the range.=20 Bienz's discovery left Jim Delitoso of Village Labs at a loss. He said optical analysis of photos and videotapes show the lights couldn't be flares and that a computer simulation matching witness accounts places the lights nowhere near the gunnery range.=20 "I'm open-minded that it could be flares, but we have no evidence of that," Delitoso said.=20 Sullins said the Maryland Air National Guard also is keeping an open mind.=20 "All I'm saying is, yes, we had aircraft flying in that area doing night illuminations." he said. "These guys were flying it. They were there. We can prove it.=20 "Whether people want to believe it was the mysterious lights, it's up to them."=20 Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again > Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:59 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Bob, > My statement almost three years ago about the film being brittle > was based on its physical condition. I presume by that you now mean that your samples were both damaged along one edge, hiding any possible further information, and not brittle, or fragile, as suggested three years ago. This may seem like a triviality to you but it was quite an issue then, and for good reason. In fact your statements then were quite misleading. > I have not tried to break the samples I have, as I am preserving > them in original condition in the hope of eventually getting proper > testing to confirm age. One thing's for certain; they'll be fifty years old at some point ;} > Purdy's belief that the film could come from the 60s is totally > subjective, and based, in part, on his firm belief that the whole > thing is a hoax. In part, yes - in addition to his wide experience in handling 16mm film > You are right that I have grown tired of endless debate over trivia > while the important issues are mostly ignored/avoided. But surely one person's trivia is another person's interesting, and perhaps enlightening, detail? No need to respond. Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:39:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:07:49 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Steven, > If you happen to see John again, you might ask why he has not > done more in the way of testing of the film samples that he has > been given. When I spoke to him last this was certainly in his mind - possibly as part of a wider investigation, as cost was prohibitive - but that was some time ago and he's probably moved on to other things by now. Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:15:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:47:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! > Dear List: > This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also > the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" > Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears > that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland > and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, > just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. Hi Kal, Now that you are back with more than adequate time to post articles "that speak for themselves" why don't you respond to the questions of David Rudiak regarding Roswell that you had promised the list. Or do you only have time for self promotion and this low level form of debunkery? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:49:31 -0400 Subject: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights NO URL for this as it comes from AOL Newsprofiles, although this story is more than likely web-posted somewhere. Rebecca --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights Date: 97-07-25 22:59:42 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By STEVE ELLIOTT PHOENIX (AP) - Military flares - rather than UFOs - might be behind those mysterious, bright lights that caused such a stir in Arizona four months ago. Visiting jets from the Maryland Air National Guard were using high-intensity flares over a bombing range near Phoenix the night of March 13, when many people reported seeing lights, military officials said Friday. The flares would have created quite a light show in southwestern Arizona, where many people reported seeing the lights in a boomerang formation. The lights, captured on videotape, created a media frenzy when the tape aired nationally last month. Capt. Drew Sullins, a spokesman for the Maryland Air National Guard, said eight of its A-10 ground-attack jets were flying training missions that night over the Barry M. Goldwater Air Force Range, 60 miles southwest of Phoenix. The planes were dropping high-intensity flares from 15,000 feet to illuminate the target area, Sullins said. The flares fall slowly by parachute and illuminate a wide area. Before returning to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson that night, the planes dumped all their remaining flares at high altitude, which would have created what one pilot called ``one hell of a light show,'' Sullins said. But the flare explanation may not solve the mystery. It doesn't explain sightings that came from northwestern Arizona - up to 200 miles away. And Frances Emma Barwood, the Phoenix city councilwoman who's been pushing for the Air Force to investigate the lights, said the explanation was just too convenient. ``If that is their explanation then they need to do a re-enactment so people can say that's what they saw or not what they saw,'' she said. AP-NY-07-25-97 2250EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:11:47 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:42:32 -0400 Subject: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >From The Albuquerque Journal, July 25 1997: http://www.abqjournal.com/roswell/1ros7-25.htm Date of publication: Friday, 25-Jul-97 11:25:52 MDT =20 Scientists Scoff at Chunk of Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon By John Fleck=20 Journal Staff Writer=20 A chunk of silicon touted earlier this month as unearthly scientific proof that a UFO crashed near Roswell 50 years ago easily could have been cooked up in any college chemistry lab, scientists say.=20 Even the scientist who made the original out-of-this-world claim at a July 4 Roswell news conference that the material couldn't have been made on Earth now acknowledges the evidence is "inconclusive."=20 "In retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight, I would have been a little more careful with my language," said San Diego chemist Russell VernonClark in a telephone interview Thursday.=20 During the frenzied 50th anniversary celebrations of an alleged alien crash in New Mexico, VernonClark stood on a stage and said of the fragment of silicon: "It is impossible for it to be from Earth."=20 It was one of the most remarkable events during the 50th anniversary celebration, which drew thousands of people who paraded in strange costumes and bought large quantities of UFO paraphernalia.=20 But in the weeks since, VernonClark's work has been subjected to a withering critique by other scientists.=20 In the interview Thursday, he said he should have acknowledged during the news conference the possibility the material could have been manufactured on Earth.=20 Scientists studying VernonClark's data, which the chemist published on the Internet, point to serious flaws.=20 "There's just a number of huge mistakes in that report, holes big enough to run a dump truck through," said Albuquerque physicist Dave Thomas.=20 Among the problems: VernonClark's claim that the alleged 50-year-old spacecraft debris contained detectable amounts of the element germanium-75, a substance so radioactive scientists say it would decay into other elements in less than a day.=20 But even looking beyond the alleged flaws in the data, the scientists say the claim the material must be extraterrestrial because of its unusual characteristics doesn't hold up.=20 The ingredients to make it could be purchased from chemical supply houses, they said, and easily mixed together in any university chemistry lab.=20 "You could do it here," said University of Kentucky chemist Rob Toreki.=20 "There's no validity to what he's saying," Toreki said of VernonClark's claim.=20 At the news conference, television producer Paul Davids, who produced a fictional account of the alleged UFO crash near Roswell, told reporters the material came from someone who claimed to have gotten it from the 1947 crash of an alien spacecraft near Roswell.=20 VernonClark, a chemist who works as an environmental health and safety specialist in the chemistry laboratory at the University of California, San Diego, said he was skeptical when he first got the sample.=20 But VernonClark said that when he tested it, he was surprised by the results.=20 He sent it to a second, unidentified scientist for additional tests, with similarly surprising results, he said.=20 VernonClark's evidence that the material is extraterrestrial is based on an analysis of the types of silicon and other chemicals in the object.=20 The atoms of a chemical such as silicon come in different types, called "isotopes." The ratios of the different isotopes of naturally occurring silicon on Earth provide a sort of fingerprint, and scientists believe elements such as silicon formed in other parts of the galaxy would have different isotopic fingerprints.=20 VernonClark said he and his unidentified colleague found isotopic fingerprints in the mystery material that didn't match the fingerprint of natural silicon on Earth.=20 The problem, Toreki explained, is that the isotopic fingerprint in VernonClark's data would be relatively easy for a chemist to manufacture.=20 For example, scientists can buy purified silicon of a number of different isotopes from the Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, said Sandia National Laboratories scientist Dick Coats.=20 All you need to make a material as "unearthly" as VernonClark's sample is to mix up some of those Oak Ridge samples in a chemistry lab, Toreki and Thomas said.=20 In the interview this week, VernonClark acknowledged he has no proof the material is extraterrestrial, but said he still believes it's a strong possibility.=20 Copyright =A9 1997 Albuquerque Journal=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:04:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:14:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:26:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:07:49 -0400 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Steven, >> If you happen to see John again, you might ask why he has not >> done more in the way of testing of the film samples that he has >> been given. >When I spoke to him last this was certainly in his mind - possibly >as part of a wider investigation, as cost was prohibitive - but that >was some time ago and he's probably moved on to other things by >now. >Rob Rob, and all, Thanks for response. The issue of the "film" has become an issue here on "Updates" once again, and if John were to be willing to give up some of the samples he has been given, I'm sure that some interested group might be willing to help with the testing. If he's moved on to other projects, perhaps he'd be willing to let others pick up on this one. Unlike the small strips given to Shell, Kiviat, and Mantle, I believe that Ray gave John a number of longer strips of "film". As I seem to recall, Ray didn't want to pay for additional testing and felt that those producing documentaries on the "Autopsy" would perform their own tests. Unfortunately, only one small strip has been tested as explained by Bob in an earlier post. It should, of course, be emphasized that this testing will not prove anything regarding the AA "film", since it contains no images to prove that it comes from the same reel(s). For that reason, I can understand the reluctance to have expensive testing performed. On the other hand, Ray has given out a number of pieces of the "film", and neither producer took the next step to have it tested for their programs. I'm not sure that I would "waste" any more segments of film (sans image) so that others could add it to their collections, and Ray certainly doesn't need the publicity to keep us discussing the "film". I find it odd that the person that has been given the largest sample has decided to not to test it, or declined to release the details if it was indeed tested behind the scenes. While not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, it would be interesting to see if the results matched the findings that have already been announced. At least we might know if all of the samples came from the same type of film, which at the very least would add one more piece of (mostly) useless information to this debate... <g Again, thanks. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:41:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:38:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:54 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> > >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:45:27 +0100 > Until we realize that today's intertpretation as "alien abduction" > is most likely no closer to the truth than stories of fairies, > elves, demons, etc., it is unlikely we will make much progress in > getting at what is really going on. That's right, yeah boy, I think they're all crazy and deluded, too - probably all have a great inner yearning to be called crazy, lose friends, be hassled by black helicopters (they follow the fairies, you know), be called liars, have horrible nightmares, and be filled with the pop-culture disease of extreme angst - you see, this way the "alleged abductees" can get some attention. Since they can't sing, dance, or act, this is their only avenue for dubious fame - if they state that they themselves doubt what happened, it creates even more public interest. It's soooooooo pitiful, the poor deluded buggers. They probably share that little instrument that makes scoop marks and pass the punch biopsy tool around through "Abductees Anonymous" to bolster the element of doubt. And everyone knows that surgical scars that appear overnight are definitely caused by the power of the hysterical mind. NOT! > There are two factors which need to be studied: the way the human > brain processes particular information, and the external experience > which causes this particular interpretation of information. Not much > attention is being paid to either by current abduction researchers. These two factors, as it happens, are the central concerns of therapists. In fact, some, John Mack for instance, started as extreme skeptics looking for hidden sexual abuse or other garden variety traumas masquerading as abduction. A friend of mine is a local shrink, very low-key and conservative fellow. He's had six cases of abduction, and told me that however incredible it may appear, he is convinced that the patients are indeed telling the truth. After 30 years of experience, he is an expert at evaluating the diguises of a human's mental and emotional nature. He cut his teeth on child abuse cases, has 100s of prior patients as his control information, and according to him, the abduction cases are clearly "something else." I think you can look at his primary yardstick of measurement as the bellweather of authenticity of the human emotional response to experiences that cause of shock and terror. The experiences are very, very intense, highly visceral, and as my friend would say, "The body doesn't lie." Perhaps you cannot evaluate this area of human experience very effectively, so it seems to you as if no one is pursuing these paths of discovery. You are insufficiently informed. If you totally discount this avenue of research and method of learning, then you are both uninformed and have also missed the train. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: D. Bunkerism From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:47:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:43:21 -0400 Subject: Re: D. Bunkerism > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:08 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: D. Bunkerism > Debunking as applied to limited, specific issues where real > answers are attainable is, of course, useful and necessary. As a > defining philosophical principle, however, it is, in my opinion, > intellectually and practically indefensible. But if someone is sufficiently smug, this excellent statement will sail right over their pointy little heads! To be a really confirmed debunker, you have to have lost all wisdom learned on the first grade playground - the inner admonition to "play fair" is firmly switched off.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: D. Bunkerism From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:33:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:51:38 -0400 Subject: Re: D. Bunkerism The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:35:43 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: D. Bunkerism >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:08 PDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: D. Bunkerism >>Debunking as applied to limited, specific issues where real >>answers are attainable is, of course, useful and necessary. As a >>defining philosophical principle, however, it is, in my opinion, >>intellectually and practically indefensible. Although the thrust of my comment on this was really concerned about adding to the ufological vocabulary, I should like to add a rider: that while debunking as a defining principle may be indefensible, its practice can still throw up gems of insight in specific instances. Dismissing - or, what happens far more often, simply ignoring - valid objections to the anomalousness of a particular case on the grounds that the objector considers all UFO sightings and experiences capable of being reduced to prosaic or mundane events is itself intellectually dishonest, tantamount to throwing babies out with bathwater, shooting bearers of unwelcome tidings, &c. And when you do get down to specific cases, the preconceptions of many a ufologist can be seen to be just as, and sometimes more, blinkering and distorting as any diehard debunker. But that is another story. Yours &c Polecat D. Marmalade Air Lawnmower
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 NASA "unlikely" to image anomalies From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:47:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:37:03 -0400 Subject: NASA "unlikely" to image anomalies Go to Stan McDaniel's web site for a new article entitled NASA "UNLIKELY" TO IMAGE ANOMALIES http://www.mcdanielreport.com/ladwig.htm A couple of excerpts : Now, however, with its successful Pathfinder landing and the attendant public excitement, it appears that NASA is less timid about revealing its true plan for re-imaging Cydonia with the Mars Global Surveyor. Alan Ladwig, NASA Assistant Administrator for Policy and Planning, stated on CNN (July 7, 1997) that the entire planet will be photographed [in other words, at low resolution with the wide-angle cameras] and probably images of the Face will be taken -- but it is "unlikely" that high resolution images will be obtained. ..... In his statement on CNN, Mr. Ladwig cited as "proof" that there no NASA cover up, the fact that NASA is sharing its Pathfinder data so openly with the public. This is a strangely illogical argument: What does sharing Pathfinder data have to do with getting new high resolution images of the Cydonia anomalies? Nothing. The statement simply obscures the fact that the only images of the Face they expect to obtain are useless ones from the low resolution mapping cameras. The reasoning seems to be: Give them the pathfinder, and they will forget about Cydonia. --- Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jul 97 11:10:36 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:39:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:26:39 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Alien Autopsy once again >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Brother TimeSpoke, religious advisor and in-castle remote viewer to >the House of Mendoza, reports the following scene acquired by >telepathic means: <snip> >Santilli: "Oh, please. Call me Ray. Er, well, it's like this. Sharon >- she keeps the books, I speckt you saw her on the way in, nice, eh? - >she said some J. Arthur character done it. Ha ha. Know what I mean? >Very expensive job that. Worth every penny though. Got class, that >has. Oh yes." Your grace, I think your remote viewer had one pint too many before this viewing. While I agree with the observations of "Ray Santilli" in your script, particularly in regard to Sharon's physical attributes, I must point out to you that the actual bookkeeper is a fellow named Harry. I've attempted to speak with Harry on this and other matters, but the problem is that Harry is a Scot (McGraw by surname, if I recollect rightly.) While it is true that Scots make the best bankers and bookkeepers, it is equally true that only another Scot can understand a word they say. So, lacking a Highlander interpreter/translator, I made little progress. Should you be fluent in Highland Broag, perhaps you could accompany me to Balcombe street one day and talk to Harry. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jul 97 11:10:39 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:40:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >From: RobIrving@aol.com >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:25:52 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >No need to respond. >Rob Thanks for your generosity. I won't, then. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Roswell Evidence - Linda Moulton Howe From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 97 16:55:10 UT Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:47:57 -0400 Subject: Roswell Evidence - Linda Moulton Howe On Tuesday, July 29th, at 6pm PT - Project: watchfire and AJS Rayl of Omni Magazine will host a live audio interview with Linda Moulton Howe regarding her work with alleged debris from a craft that may have crashed at Roswell in '47. The URL is http://watchfire.msn.com. Rayl will also review some of the latest information on the Paul Davids/Derrel Sims evidence as well.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:41:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:51:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? At 12:47 AM 07/26/97 -0400, Gary wrote: >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:15:56 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >> From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >> To: Updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! >> Dear List: >> This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >> the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >> Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >> that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >> and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >> just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >Now that you are back with more than adequate time to post >articles "that speak for themselves" why don't you respond to >the questions of David Rudiak regarding Roswell that you had >promised the list. >Or do you only have time for self promotion and this low level >form of debunkery? >Gary I'm _still_ waiting and have been for the last two months, for Kal Korff to _deliver_ on his promise of a multi-page rebuttal on Billy Meier's charges about Kal Korff. Evidently, Kal Korff is fond of making promises but not actually delivering on them. Kal Korff has NO room to raise questions about Jim Dilettoso authenticating _anything_ when HE CANNOT follow through on his OWN statements. Either stand and deliver Kal, or get the hell out of here and stay out and be forever known as a worthless debunker who refuses to substantiate his rhetoric with FACTS. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:19:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:19:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:36:34 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:21:39 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights >NO URL for this as it comes from AOL Newsprofiles, although this story is >more than likely web-posted somewhere. >Rebecca >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Military Takes Blame for UFO Lights >Date: 97-07-25 22:59:42 EDT >From: AOL News >.c The Associated Press > By STEVE ELLIOTT > PHOENIX (AP) - Military flares - rather than UFOs - might be >behind those mysterious, bright lights that caused such a stir in >Arizona four months ago. > Visiting jets from the Maryland Air National Guard were using >high-intensity flares over a bombing range near Phoenix the night >of March 13, when many people reported seeing lights, military >officials said Friday. > The flares would have created quite a light show in southwestern >Arizona, where many people reported seeing the lights in a >boomerang formation. The lights, captured on videotape, created a >media frenzy when the tape aired nationally last month. [snip] =========================================================================== Hi ya Rebecca, hi All, >"If that is their explanation then they need to do a >re-enactment so people can say that's what they saw or not what >they saw,'' she said. Oh you bet they do! And I'll bet anyone anything that if they did, they wouldn't be able to reproduce (with flares) the same thing that we have on videotape I've been on this one from day one, I'd like to share some of that with all of you. 1. The video tapes (that were taken from several different vantage points) shows the 'lights' at low altitude _OVER_ downtown Phoenix and not off in the far distance where the flares would have been located had they been released over Barry Goldwater range. 2. Although you can't see it because the video was made at night, one of the vantage points shows the lights are (in front of) South Mountain! That means they were in the sky over the valley (Phoenix) and not off in the distance. (60 miles away according to the airforce) 3. Phoenix is surrounded by mountains! One of the striking features about the city of Phoenix (beautiful to see when you fly in) is that it is almost completely surrounded by mountains and hills. Phoenix sits in a valley. (Below sea level!) If those lights had originated from the Goldwater range 60 miles away very few would have been in a good position to see them, much less videotape them from that far away 4. The "V" formation of lights was first reported over Paulden, AZ, then Prescott to the southeast, then Phoenix (again to the southeast of Prescott) and again in a southeast direction to Tucson. They were next reported all the way the hell back in the northwest corner of the state in Kingman (pay attention here) twenty minutes after the Tucson sighting! Get a map out. Tucson is in the southeast corner of Arizona, Kingman is in the northwest corner There is a mystery here that goes much deeper than the simple 'flare' explanation being offered up by the airforce would indicate. We have too much witness testimony, videotape (and if someone local would get on it) we could also get information from that commercial pilot that reported a close encounter with whatever it was that was in the sky (OVER) downtown Phoenix. I can't think of any other way to say this, our military is lying to us. ALL of the available testimony and video evidence contradicts their explanation. ALL of the video's show these lights hovering over downtown Phoenix. Flares don't 'hover.' All of the video's show the lights maintaining not only altitude but their positions in the sky relative to one another. Flares unless they were somehow tied together couldn't reproduce that kind of motion. NOTHING that was in the sky was moving downward
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:41:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:41:40 -0400 Subject: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: MARS PATHFINDER PHOTO #81977 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:20:48 -0700 Hello All, I am mostly a lurker when it comes to the list, however every now and then a subject that has not been previously mentioned sparks my interest enough to let everyone know. I was listening to the Art Bell radio program last night, when I heard Richard Hoagland (whom I I take with a grain of salt) mention that a certain JPL photo from the pathfinder had been pulled off of all the Internet sites with the exception of a few. Hoagland stated that the reason for this, in his opinion, was that the "twin-peaks" in the Mars photo looked like a Myan temple and a pyramid. Out of curiosity, I found one of the few remaining photos and saved it to disc. Upon studying the picture, which I FIRMLY believe shows NO sign of pyramids or the like, I discovered a small, round, apparently silver(?) object just above the right corner of the peak (this photo having only one peak shown). I have attached the photo to this letter in hopes someone on the list might have an explanation for this as well as why NASA would pull these photos from the public. Could it be the object in the picture.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:06:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:43:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 Hello Again, Just to clear up a thing or two. I have checked the OFFICIAL NASA site and found that the pictures ARE there. Apparently, they were taken off and then put back on. HOWEVER...the photo is MUCH less distinct than the original that was there to begin with...hmmmm, could they have pulled it long enough to distort the background and put it back up in this POOR quality? YOU decide! I sent out the original, compare the sharpness if you like to that of the NOW AVAILABLE image on the official JPL site at: http://mpfwww.arc.nasa.gov/ops/81977_full.jpg . Cheers! Desiree - snake@mwaz.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701/ufo.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:52:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:26 -0400 >Subject: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Dear List: >This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >Air Guard unit sheds >light on Valley's UFOs >Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. I really don't have much to say about this. It's been my understanding that the flare explanation was successfully debunked back in April primarily by the witnesses who almost universally stated that the behavior of the the lights in question was inconsistent with flare activity. The Air National Guard's reassertion of the flare explanation does not seem to serve any useful purpose as the lights that people are concerned about appeared to be in a different location and exhibit different properties. For those that are familiar with what transpired on the night of March 13, the true explanation for the lights may not have been an ET intelligence but in retrospect we can safely rule out the flare explanation as it does not seem to fit the data. This does not necessarily mean that some other mundane explantion wouldn't adhear to the data but as yet, no such explanation has been forthcoming from anyone as far as I've seen. As a side note, I don't expect to see much assistance from the military when it comes to trying to find out what UFOs are. In the words of Jacques Vallee a la Hector Quintenilla "UFO reports are just an annoyance". After looking at some of the Bluebook cases I would have to expect that the Air Force will continue to offer mundane explanations for UFO sightings irrespective of whether such explanations fit the facts or not. This appears to be policy. In the absence of an obvious conclusion fabricate something tangible. I have no idea what inspired such a policy or why the Air Force continues to do this. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Robert A. Rogers <lrogers@plains.NoDak.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:26:05 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? The Air Forces explanation of the Phoenix UFO Sightings as "Operation Snowbird" is quite suspicious. William Moore, well known to the world of UFOlogy, released his infamous 'MJ-12 document' in 1987. I had this document in my posession in 1988. Within this document is, among other things, a description of a secret government project known, coincidentally, or perhaps not, as project "Snowbird." Project Snowbird is described as '. . . a cover for project REDLIGHT. Several flying saucer type craft were build using conventional technology. They were unveiled to the press and flown in front of the press. The puspose was to explain accidental sightings or disclosure of REDLIGHT as having been the SNOWBIRD craft." (Moore) We can take this seeming coincidence in one of three ways. One, it IS merely a coincidence, but the odds of this seem great indeed. Second, the gov't could have possibly used the very well known UFO folklore detailed in the MJ-12 document to further confuse the issue, or perhaps even to mock the ever growing numbers of believers in the reality of the UFO phenomenon. Finally, a third possibility, though no easier to believe than the first, is that it actually was project Snowbird of the 1987 Moore document - the lights were gov't flown alien or pseudo-alien craft. Regardless, something is amiss. The complexity of the issue becomes greater and greater as time goes on. Robert A. Rogers Director SUFOIT/PARA-4 North Dakota
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 50 years of CIA From: "G.R.E.P.I." <grepi@worldcom.ch> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:42:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:29:34 -0400 Subject: 50 years of CIA ---------- De : G.R.E.P.I. <grepi@worldcom.ch> A : C.I.A. <cia@cia.gov=20 Objet : 50 years of CIA Date : samedi, 26. juillet 1997 21:35 =20 =20 Happy Birthday to You, Beloved C.I.A. !!! =20 Fifty years ago, on July 26, 1947, President Truman signed the decree of your creation. During these 50 years, a great job has been done=20 What an endeavour to build a better world, at the heavy cost of a great sacrifice.=20 But the results stand today as an achievement: the New World Order has been established for a thousand years, and every bad thought seem to be banned from our planet forever ! =20 We are now marching to a bright future, in the new harshly conquered paradise on this good old Earth=20 =20 Generations of thankful normalized citizens shall remember the =20 circumstances of your birth with emotion.=20 18 days after the Roswell black-out operation, your existence had become necessary to implement the cover-up policy of the power behind America =20 A steadfast and untirable action of disinformation, psychological harassment, and quick delifisation of the most loquacious elements around ufology, have let the world so ignorant that it is now ready to be grasped at the power's convenience.=20 In memory of: =20 - Defense Secretary James Forrestal, who created Project Sign and believed that the flying saucers came from outer space;=20 - Waveney Girvan, Chief Editor of the famous Flying Saucer Review;=20 - Morris K. Jessup, an astromomer who knew too =20 much about flying saucers and related black=20 projects =20 - Charles Hunt Williamson;=20 - H. T. Wilkins;=20 - Manon Darlaine, who was a reliable source of information;=20 - Dr Olavo Fontes, a famous Brazilian ufologist and physician;=20 - Charles Maney, who was the first academic who showed interest for UFOs;=20 - Wilbert Smith, Head of Canadian Inquiry Commission, who had contacts with alien intelligence;=20 - Edward J. Ruppelt, director of Project Blue Book and author of a too valuable book;=20 - Frank Edwards, a pro-UFO journalist who defied the authorities to silence him;=20 - Dr James McDonald, a too curious meteorologist;=20 - Rodiguez, a fisherman from Porto-Rico who entered a secret base by chance;=20 - Harold E. Holt, Prime Minister of Australia, who wanted to tell the Parliament about covered activities in U.S. bases in Austarlia;=20 - Phil Schneider, an engineer in Dulce facilities, who pronounced a fatal =20 conference =20 - Barney Hill, the first American abductee;=20 - Danny Casolaro, who conducted forbidden inquiries, i.e. in Area 51;=20 - Dr Ren=E9 Hardy, who just discovered something important about EBEs;=20 - Vladimir Alexandrov, a renowned meteorologist;=20 and so many others, whose life ended abruptly but often at the nick of time.=20 =20 G.R.E.P.I. (Groupe de Recherche et d'Etude des Ph=E9nom=E8nes Insolites) Geneva =20 http://home.worldcom.ch/~dbenaroy/preside.html =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:48:19 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:33:55 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: 24 Jul 97 09:50:24 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >I find that most UFO researchers are totally ignorant of the work >of Crowley, John Dee and other members of the Western magical tradition >who have claimed for centuries to be in contact with higher >intelligences and have had experiences which we would today call >close encounters, contact and abduction. The difference is that >they have initiated the experiences through complex rituals. >Bob Hey, Bob: Not so fast! My $75 copy of Meric Casaubon's "A True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr. John Dee and Some Spirits" is due any day now from Pratum Books (PO Box 985, Healdsburg, CA 95448). When it arrives, it goes on the shelf along with the other Dee books on hand, ones by Francis Yates, Crowley, Mathers, Machen, Yeats, Regardie, Gurdjieff and others. (Not to mention Fort, Keel and Vallee, nor would I ever think of doing so.) And then there's Jung, Blake, Paul Radin's "The Trickster," the nearly complete works of the compilations of William Corliss, countless tomes by Colin Wilson, and the first English translation of the Koran by George Sale, 1734 (for what that's worth, and I think it's quite a bit), along with numerous Sufi works translated from the Arabic and Persian tongues by A. J. Arberry and R. A. Nicholson. Did I forget an absolutely stunning edition of the 1001 Arabian Nights by Sir Richard Francis Burton and numerous other works by the latter, including the 1898 Bengal Club Library, Calcutta, copy of the latter's "The Jew, the Gypsy and El Islam"? The above I would consider a minimum requirement for most serious, self-respecting forteans. Individual ufologists' needs may differ -- along with any results. As it so haps, I've also been to Burton's crypt in person and peered in, which just happens to be in Mortlake Churchyard, London, which just happens to be adjacent to what little remains of Dee's 16th century home, laboratory and library in Mortlake (little more than a single stone wall), in turn but a short, pleasant stroll from the present editorial offices of Magonia. (Guided tour courtesy of John Rimmer.) The argument could be made (and has) that Dee was the model for Prospero in Shakespeare's "The Tempest," which I believe was the master's last play. In short, read enough of this stuff and you begin to loose your enthusiasm in a hurry in the reality of physical, extraterrestrial visitors a la Roswell and the AA film in, where was it, now -- Socorro? The only obvious thread among all these intertwined connections is that if they _are_ connected in any way, fashion or form, then no physical spaceship is required for that connection. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:38:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Hello List, Here's another statement of debunkery: > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:11:47 +0200 > Subject: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists > >From The Albuquerque Journal, July 25 1997: > http://www.abqjournal.com/roswell/1ros7-25.htm > Date of publication: > Friday, 25-Jul-97 11:25:52 MDT > Scientists Scoff at Chunk of Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon > By John Fleck > Journal Staff Writer > A chunk of silicon touted earlier this month as unearthly scientific > proof that a UFO crashed near Roswell 50 years ago easily could have > been cooked up in any college chemistry lab, scientists say. > .... > The ingredients to make it could be purchased from chemical supply > houses, they said, and easily mixed together in any university > chemistry lab. > "You could do it here," said University of Kentucky chemist Rob Toreki. > ... Of course, this kind of totally one-sided attitude would not be unexpected if there had never been any UFO Roswell event. But in any event, I wonder just how simple it would be to mix together such trace amounts of the proper isotopic abundances of Ni, Ag, Zn, GE, etc. within the 99%+ silicon piece, and obtain the observed isotopic ratios upon examination? The Kentucky chemist or others really need to try this, and give honest results of their findings, before making such a statement. The very small amount of unstable Ge (75) isotope found present is certainly perplexing, but that might point to something presently unknown to 20th-century chemistry. Even Carl Sagan used to say that what advanced ETs could do ought to seem like magic to us (in repeating Arthur Clark), and this ought to apply to the field of chemistry & materials science as well as to interstellar travel. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:29:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:40:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again The Duke of Mendoza present his compliments. >Date: 26 Jul 97 11:10:36 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Autopsy once again >Should you be fluent in Highland Broag, perhaps you could >accompany me to Balcombe street one day and talk to Harry. While it is true that one of my three grandmothers and one of my three former brothers-in-law were Highlanders, Scots of all classes and persuasions tend to attack me when I attempt to address them in their own language. Scots are more sensitive than their addiction to bagpipes and cabers would suggest. As irony would have it, I think your man would be James Easton. And you would have so much to talk about together while waiting in reception. TimeSpoke does not drink, although his handbag does clank rather. I am not sure what he does do. Both the Dowager Duchess and Lady Amarintha refuse to tell me. Yours &c Pandacar D. McDoom Pump Specialist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:06:35 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:44:13 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:48:19 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Hey, Bob: [Shell] > Not so fast! My $75 copy of Meric Casaubon's "A True and > Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between > Dr. John Dee and Some Spirits" is due any day now from > Pratum Books (PO Box 985, Healdsburg, CA 95448). > When it arrives, it goes on the shelf along with the other > Dee books on hand, ones by Francis Yates, Crowley, Mathers, > Machen, Yeats, Regardie, Gurdjieff and others. (Not to > mention Fort, Keel and Vallee, nor would I ever think of > doing so.) And then there's Jung, Blake, Paul Radin's "The > Trickster," the nearly complete works of the compilations > of William Corliss, countless tomes by Colin Wilson, and > the first English translation of the Koran by George Sale, > 1734 (for what that's worth, and I think it's quite a bit), > along with numerous Sufi works translated from the Arabic > and Persian tongues by A. J. Arberry and R. A. Nicholson. > Did I forget an absolutely stunning edition of the 1001 > Arabian Nights by Sir Richard Francis Burton and numerous > other works by the latter, including the 1898 Bengal Club > Library, Calcutta, copy of the latter's "The Jew, the > Gypsy and El Islam"? > In short, read enough of this stuff and you begin to loose > your enthusiasm in a hurry in the reality of physical, > extraterrestrial visitors a la Roswell and the AA film in, > where was it, now -- Socorro? The only obvious thread > among all these intertwined connections is that if they > _are_ connected in any way, fashion or form, then no > physical spaceship is required for that connection. > Dennis Hi, everybody, Dennis is a good and treasured friend and colleague, but the above does come as a shock. Or maybe it shouldn't. Hynek and Vallee gave up on science when they gave up on the ETH and turned to the "wisdom" of the Western occult tradition for guidance. Based on what happened to them, plus my own natural skepticism, I'll stay with science, thanks. I have no idea what "obvious thread" connects the transparently bogus AA film and the truly puzzling Socorro event, unless "obvious thread" by any other name would be "rhetorical strategy." If so, a bare wisp o' one. To paraphrase Woody Guthrie: If it were any thinner, even a politician could see through it. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 26 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:51:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:51:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:56:02 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: MARS PATHFINDER PHOTO #81977 >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:20:48 -0700 >Hello All, >I am mostly a lurker when it comes to the list, however every >now and then a subject that has not been previously mentioned >sparks my interest enough to let everyone know. >I was listening to the Art Bell radio program last night, when >I heard Richard Hoagland (whom I I take with a grain of salt) >mention that a certain JPL photo from the pathfinder had been >pulled off of all the Internet sites with the exception of a >few. Hoagland stated that the reason for this, in his opinion, >was that the "twin-peaks" in the Mars photo looked like a Myan >temple and a pyramid. Out of curiosity, I found one of the few >remaining photos and saved it to disc. Upon studying the picture, >which I FIRMLY believe shows NO sign of pyramids or the like, >I discovered a small, round, apparently silver(?) object just >above the right corner of the peak (this photo having only one >peak shown). >I have attached the photo to this letter in hopes someone on >the list might have an explanation for this as well as why >NASA would pull these photos from the public. Could it be the >object in the picture. >The object is VERY faint, and I don't have the software to >enhance it. Maybe someone out there does? The best I could do >was to use reverse negative, from which I could plainly see >the object as a round, dark spot in the sky. > If anyone has an opinion, let me know what you think! >Cheers, >Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 'Good Luck Mr. Gorsky' comes home From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:29:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:29:40 -0400 Subject: 'Good Luck Mr. Gorsky' comes home It's odd how items posted here eventually come back to roost. Roger Prokic, last night, mailed a messy version of an item I'd keyed in March '96, stripped of all credits. (no blame Roger) For Roger and those of you who weren't subscribed back then here's the original: File Name: FLATNIEL.TXT Key Date: 03-29-96 Keyed by: Errol Bruce-Knapp From: Flatland Magazine #13 P.O. Box 2420 Fort Bragg, California 95437 http://www.mcn.org/cbc/Bussect/Flatland/flatland.html flatland@mcn.org =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he not only made his famous 'One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Mankind' statement, but followed it by several remarks - usual comm-traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control. Before he re-entered the lander, he made an enigmatic remark: "Good Luck, Mr Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut: however, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American space programs. Over the years, many people have questioned him as to what the 'Good Luck, Mr. Gorsky' statement meant. On July 5 in Tampa Bay, FL, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded. It seems that Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could answer the question. When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball with his brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball which landed in front of his neighbours bedroom window. The neighbours were Mr. and Mrs. Gorsky. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, Neil heard Mrs. Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky. "Oral sex? Oral sex you want? You'll get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!" --- Mlle LeFractale =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES RG24-17984 S940-5 Part 1 From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:34:21 -0400 Subject: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES RG24-17984 S940-5 Part 1 I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs. This is a complete listing of the first 300+ documents contained in the first group. I have also paid to have them all transferred from microfilm. So now I can make them available for just 20c each (plus shipping) or if you want all the documents, I could probably do it for $29.99 (plus shipping). You can contact me at ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- at: 37122-769 Southdale Rd. E. London, Ontario, N6E-3B0 If you would like to receive the next index, just e-mail me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Canadian Government X-Files from Department of National Defence] C A N A D I A N D E P A R T M E N T O F D E F E N C E REEL T-3291, RECORD GROUP 24, VOLUME #17984, S-940-5, PART 1 UFO X-FILES: INTELLIGENCE SIGHTINGS OF UNKNOWN OBJECTS, 1947-1962 NUM DATE: DESCRIPTION: ------------------------------------------------------------------- 001 08/11/75 Memo Re: These files not be released until year 2000 002 08/11/75 Notice: "These files are Closed" 003 06/29/62 Superintendent of Criminal Investigations, To: Goldsmith to Chief of Air Staff, Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Fire Ball UFO in Alberta. 004 06/19/62 Group Captain, Air Staff, Dilworth To: Air Defence Command Re: Reporting UFOs 005 06/19/62 Group Captain, Air Staff, Dilworth To: Security Division of RCMP, Kelly Re: Reporting UFOs. 006 04/25/61 Department of National Defence, Minute Sheet Re: Forwarding UFO reports to Air Defence Command. 007 05/01/61 Directorate, Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks, Minute Sheet Re: UFO sighting. UFO, COPPERMINE, NORTH WEST TERRITORIES, 03/18/61: 008 03/23/61 Royal Canadian Mounted Police To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Report of Coppermine, NWT, March 18, 1961 009 03/23/61 RCMP Report Re: UFO at Coppermine, North West Territories, March 18, 1961 010 03/23/61 (Page Two) UNIDENTIFIED OBJECTS, SHELBURNE, NOVA SCOTIA, 03/30/50: 011 06/03/58 Air Staff To: Royal Canadian Mounted Police Re: Foil and Plastic Found, Nova Scotia 012 05/27/58 Goldsmith, Criminal Investigations To: Royal Canadian Air Force Security Re: Unidentified Foil Found in Shelburne 013 05/05/58 Superintendent of Criminal Investigations, Regan To: Commissioner Re: Unidentified Foil & Plastic, Shelburne, Nova Scotia 014 04/28/58 Superintendent of Criminal Investigations, Regan To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Unidentified Foil & Plastic, Shelburne, Nova Scotia 015 04/21/58 RCMP Report Re: Unidentified Objects Found in Shelburne, Nova Scotia on 03/30/58 in tree tops. Also large 10 foot sheet of plastic descended from sky. THE BRITISH CANBERRA 05/07/58: 016 05/07/52 Strategic Air Command To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Over flight by British Canberra postponed indefinitely. 017 05/07/52 Secret notice from Strategic Air Command to Royal Canadian Air Force of over flight by British Canberra on May 7, 1958. UFO, WEST BATHURST, NEW BRUNSWICK, 08/10/62: 018 08/15/62 Defayette, Moncton To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Fireball UFO over West Bathurst, New Brunswick 08/10/62 019 08/10/62 RCMP Telex regarding fireball UFO and possible crash viewed by several witnesses in West Bathurst, NB, August 10, 1962. UFO, SHELBURNE, NEW BRUNSWICK, 09/19/62: 020 09/20/62 Letter from RCAF to Burke-Gaffney at St. Mary's University Halifax, NS regarding UFO report on September 19, 1962 over Shelburne, New Brunswick UFO, TEEPEE CREEK, ALBERTA, 05/09/62: 021 06/12/62 Letter from Sup. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to RCAF regarding UFO that landed in Teepee Creek, Alberta on May 9, 1962 022 06/12/62 Letter from Sup. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to Prof. Folinsbee, University of Alberta regarding UFO landing Teepee Creek, Alberta May 9, 1962 023 06/14/62 Letter from Sup. Criminal Investigation Branch, Porter to Prof. Folinsbee, University if Alberta regarding co-operation with Armed Services in reporting UFOs 024 05/03/62 Letter from Scientific Adviser, Chief of Air Staff, Arnell to Commissioner, RCMP, Cooper regarding reporting of UFOs. 025 07/06/62 Letter from Group Captain, Chief of Air Staff, Dilworth to Security & Intelligence, RCMP regarding reporting of UFOs UFO, ALEXS CREEK, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 11/02/62: 026 11-04-62 Telex from Kamloops, BC to Vancouver CANAIRHED regarding RCMP investigation of UFO crash in Alexs Creek on November 2 027 11-03-62 Telex UFO Report from Kamloops, BC to Vancouver CANAIRHED Cylindrical UFO crash in Alexs Creek area on November 2 028 10/01/62 Message form regarding geological survey interest in retrieving crashed fireball UFOs. UFO, HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA: 029 10/01/62 Telex from Halifax to Greenland regarding UFO Report 030 09/30/62 Telex from Canada Air Atlantic to Torbay regarding Halifax assuming investigation of UFO report. 031 09/30/62 Telex from Torbay to Canada Air Atlantic regarding UFO report. UFO CRASH RETRIEVAL, TEMISKANING, QUEBEC, 05/11/62: 032 05/15/62 Telex from North Bay to Canadian Air Defence regarding crashed UFO dragged off ice in Temiskaning, PQ on May 11, 1962. 033 05/15/62 Telex from North Bay to Can. Air Defence regarding crashed UFO in Temiskaning, PQ on May 11, 1962 and that a helicopter will be need to retrieve UFO. 034 04/30/62 Letter from Sup. Cooper, Criminal Investigations to Scientific Adviser (RCMP) Arnell regarding reporting UFOs. 035 03/10/62 RCAF requests assistance in collecting fireball UFO and meteor reports. Includes list of 8 scientists involved. 036 03/10/62 (Page two of the above) KEN KANSEN'S (NICAP) LETTERS OF INQUIRY: 037 04/17/62 Memo from Air Marshal Campbell Chief Air Staff to Minister Staff Officer regarding letter from Mr. Kansen. 038 04/??/62 Letter from Minister of National Defence, Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding letter dated March 30, 1962 on UFOs. AFR 200-2 and UFO secrecy. 039 04/??/62 Department of National Defence regarding preparing a reply. 040 04/11/62 Memo from Wing Commander Muncy regarding a reply to Kansen's letter and discusses UFO secrecy. 041 03/27/62 Memo from Air Marshal Campbell re: reply to Kansen's letter. 042 (NoDate) Letter from Minister National Defence, Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding UFO secrecy 043 06/23/62 Letter from Group Captain RCAF Dilworth to Kansen regarding UFO secrecy & JANAP 146. 044 04/21/62 Letter from NICAP Investigator Ken Kansen to Commanding Officer, RCAF regarding UFO secrecy, JANAP 146D 045 04/21/62 (Page two of the above) 046 03/27/62 Letter from Wing Commander Muncy to Minister of National Defence regarding Ken Kansen's letter. 047 03/12/62 Letter from Ken Kansen to Minister of National Defence Doug Harkness regarding contradictions regarding UFO secrecy policies. 048 03/??/62 Letter from Minister of National Defence Doug Harkness to NICAP Investigator Ken Kansen regarding UFO reports. 049 03/04/62 Letter to Minister of National Defence, Doug Harkness from NICAP Investigator, Ken Kansen regarding UFOs. 050 03/04/62 (Part two of the above) 051 10/23/61 Memo from Air Chief Campbell to Parliamentary Returns Regarding how to answer questions about UFOs. 052 10/18/61 Memo from Parliamentary Returns, Dwyer to Chief Air Staff Regarding letter asking about UFOs. 053 08/16/61 Chief Air Staff, Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, PQ regarding UFO Sightings 054 08/15/61 Chief Air Staff, Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, PQ regarding UFO Sightings 055 08/06/61 Temporary Docket, Air Force, S-940-105 TD-1221 056 08/08/61 Wing Commander Lambert To: Humbolt, Saskatchewan Re: requested UFO info. 057 03/16/61 Chief Air Staff, Haldman To: St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFO report 058 03/08/61 Shawinigan, Quebec To: National Defence Re: UFO report 02/28/61 059 02/15/61 Chief Air Staff, Haldman To: St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFO report 060 01/17/61 Wing Commander, Lambert To: Commanding Officer Royal Canadian Air Force Re: NICAP, Kaasen letters dated 04/22/60, 10/23/60 & 01/02/61 061 11/17/60 Temporary Docket, Air Force S-940-105 TD-0326 062 11/30/60 Chief Air Staff, Francis To: St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFO report UFO REPORT, COLLINGWOOD, ONTARIO, 11/13/60: 063 11/17/60 Air Officer Command, ATC Doherty to Department National Defence, Chief Air Staff Re: UFO report in Collingwood, Ontario 11/13/60 064 11/13/60 From Collingwood, Ontario to RCAF Peterborough, Ontario Re: UFO report in Collingwood of 11/13/60 KEN KAASEN (NICAP) LETTER OF INQUIRY: 065 11/18/60 Chief Air Staff Dilworth to RCAF St. Hubert, Quebec Re: JANAP 146(d), UFO information request 066 10/23/60 NICAP Kaasen to RCAF re: UFO secrecy AFL200-2 & JANAP-146D 067 10/23/60 (Outside Envelope for the Above) DODDS LETTER OF INQUIRY: 068 09/08/60 Temporary Docket, Air Force S-904-105 TD-0253 069 10/06/60 Department National Defence Minute Sheet (DAFS) Re: Letter regarding UFOs inquiries referred for clearance 070 10/11/60 Flying Officer Kennedy, Chief Air Staff to Dodds, Toronto Re: RCAF policy on reporting UFOs, letter of 09/08/60 071 09/28/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet, DAFS Re: Letter on UFOs forwarded for security clearance 072 09/22/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet Re: News Services to check with DAFS before replying to UFO inquiries. 073 09/20/60 Department National Defence, Minute Sheet, Kennedy to Directorate Air Intelligence, request for UFO information 074 09/08/60 Letter from Dodds in Toronto to RCAF regarding UFO secrecy. KEN KAASEN (NICAP) LETTER OF INQUIRY: 075 06/23/60 RCAF Group Captain Dilworth Chief Air Staff to RCAF station, Trenton, Ontario re: UFO reports to be passed to AOC/ADC as per JANAP-146(D), CIRVIS/MERINT inquiry of Kaasen (NICAP) 076 06/23/60 RCAF Group Captain Dilworth Chief Air Staff to Kaasen (NICAP) Re: letter 04/21/60 about UFO secrecy & JANAP 146(D) 077 05/13/60 GA Wooley S/L AOC/ATC to Air Force Headquarters Re: Kaasen (NICAP) letter about UFOs over Alberta 078 04/15/60 Letter from Kaasen (NICAP) to RCAF, Edmonton, Alberta Requesting information on UFOs over Alberta, JANAP 146(D) 079 04/15/60 (Page Two of the Above) 080 (NoDate) Keyhoe info sheet about NICAP, also Mars & Venus Alien Bases 081 (NoDate) (Page Two of the Above) 082 02/14/60 From Kaasen (NICAP) to Chief Air Staff, Cartier Square, Ottawa Re: request for UFO information 083 10/07/59 Release Sheet, Re: report on UFOs from NICAP 08/09/59 084 08/09/59 Temporary Docket, Air Force, DA-13-2 /07/21/59 085 (NoDate) Department Air Intelligence, Minute Sheet, UFO report to ADC HQ 086 06/08/59 From Wilbert Smith, Department of Transportation Re: Montreal UFO 06/05/59 info release to Carr 087 06/08/59 Department Air Intelligence to WB Smith Re: release of Montreal UFO info to Carr 088 06/04/59 Air Force Temporary Docket, Department Air Intelligence A-13-3 UFO REPORT, RED RIVER, WINNIPEG, MANITOBA, 05/13/59: 089 06/05/59 Letter to Department National Defence, RCAF Re: correction to UFO report over Red River, East Kildoman 090 06/05/59 (Page Two of the Above) 091 06/05/59 (Page Three of the Above) UFO REPORT, MATLOCK, MANITOBA, 05/15/59: 092 05/15/59 Air Force Temporary Docket, DAI-13-3 C-940-105 TD-9140 093 05/15/59 Letter from Matlock, Manitoba To: Deputy Minister, Dept. Nat. Defence Re: UFO over Red River, Winnipeg 094 05/15/59 (Page Two of the Above) 095 05/15/59 (Envelope for the Above) 096 06/05/59 Department Air Defence, Squadron Leader, Marshal To: Wilbert B. Smith Re: forwarding UFO reports to Smith at Department of Transport 097 06/01/59 Chief Air Staff, Squadron Leader, Lovelace To: Thackik of Matlock, Manitoba Re: Letter 05/15/59, UFO over East Kildonan UFO CRASH, PRINCE GEORGE, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 04/29/59: 098 05/06/59 Air Force, Temporary Docket, C940-105 TD-9128 099 05/06/59 Air Defence Command, Squadron Leader, Wood To: Air Force Headquarters Ottawa Re: UFO crash 05/01/59 CANAIRVAN, Directorate Air Intelligence 100 04-30-59 Telex: CANAIRVAN UFO explosion/crash, Prince George, PD 04/29/59 RED UFO OVER MONTREAL, 04/12/59: 101 05/05/59 Squadron Leader Wood, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Air Force Headquarters, Chief Air Staff Re: Red UFO over Montreal 04/12/59 102 04/26/59 Carr of Inter-Continental Aerial Research Foundation (ICARF) To: Air Defence Command, St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFOs over Montreal 04/12/59 METALLIC STRIPS FOUND IN FIELDS, QUEBEC, 04/20/59: 103 04/21/59 Air Force, Temporary Docket 104 04/21/59 Squadron Leader Wood, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters Ottawa, Department of Air Intelligence, Squadron Leader, Lovelace Re: UFO report of SOPR and release of UFO information 105 04/15/59 Squadron Leader Harvey, SOPR Re: Inquiry into UFO report of St. Hubert, Quebec 106 04/15/59 (Page Two of the Above) 107 04/20/59 Wolfe, PQ (Translation) To: Honorable Minister Re: Metallic Strips found in Fields 108 04/20/59 (Copy of the Above) 109 04/20/59 (Original of Above in Hand Written French) 110 08/10/59 Squadron Leader Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Squadron Leader, Harvey, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command, Royal Canadian Air Force Station, St. Hubert, Quebec Re: UFO Questionnaire 111 03/31/59 Squadron Leader Harvey, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Chief Air Staff, Squadron Leader Lovelace Re: UFO policy and public relations 112 04/02/59 Temporary Docket, Air Force C940-105 TD-9097 113 03/28/59 Montreal, Quebec To: Department Air Intelligence Re: UFO Reports over past five years 114 03/28/59 (Page Two of the Above) 115 03/28/59 (Page Three of the Above) 116 03/28/59 (Page Four of the Above) UFO, HAMILTON, ONTARIO, 02/06/59: 117 04/09/59 Flight Lieutenant, Fransic, Chief Air Staff To: Eager, Hamilton, Ontario Re: Letter of 04/02/59 reporting UFO of 02/06/59 118 04-02-59 Eager, Hamilton, Ontario To: Chief Air Staff, Ottawa Re: UFO, Hamilton, Ontario, 02/06/59 UFO, RIDGETOWN, ONTARIO, 08/17/58: 119 05/05/58 Flight Lieutenant, Francis, Chief Air Staff, RCAF To: Rodney, Ontario Re: UFO report of 08/17/58 121 08-21-58 Rodney, Ontario To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO report Rodney/Morpeth/Ridgetown/Lake Erie 08/17/58 120 08/29/58 Department Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks Minute Sheet 123 08/19/58 Department Air Intelligence, Beaver Barracks, Minute Sheet Re: Four-year-old UFO report FLYING SAUCER, KESSWICK, ONTARIO, FALL 1954: 122 08/20/58 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Banks, Kesswick, York County, Ontario Re: UFO Report dated 08/12/58 124 08/12/58 Banks, Kesswick, York County, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters Re: UFO report Oct/Nov 1954 fifty foot hovering disc 125 07/04/58 Royal Canadian Air Force, Minute Sheet, DADO Re: Response to UFO report 126 06/26/58 Squadron Leader Wood Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO report 05/16/58 UFO, SMITHS BAY, PARRY SOUND, ONTARIO, 05/16/58: 127 06/04/58 Royal Canadian Air Force, Squadron Leader, Hudson, Toronto To: Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command, RCAF St. Hubert, PQ Re: UFO Crash into lake, 05/16/58 Smiths Bay, Parry Sound, Ontario 128 06/26/58 Group Captain, Ingalls, Chief Air Staff To: Commanding Officer, RCAF STN, Les St. Denis, Morin Heights, PQ Re: Letter regarding UFO fragment examined, 06/05/58 129 06/23/58 Reclassification Sheet, Letter from Air Defence Command Operational Brevity Code ACP165 Removed and placed on S965-104 UFO, MALTON, ONTARIO REPORTED BY AVRO: 130 06/18/58 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Commanding Officer, RCAF, 'TSD's AVRO Aircraft, Malton, Ont Re: Air Force interest in UFO sightings reported by employees CIRVIS/MERINT, NORAD, JCEC: 131 02/05/58 Chief Air Staff, MacBrien To: Deputy Commander-in-Chief, NORAD, Colorado Springs, Colorado Re: Standardized Canada-US CIRVIS/MERINT 132 12/13/57 Air Marshal, Slemon, RCAF, Deputy Commander-in-Chief To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: CIRVIS/MERINT Joint Communication Electronics Committee 133 (NoDate) General Chairman, Foulkes, Chief of Staff Committee To: Under-Secretary of State External Affairs, East Block, Ottawa Re: CIRVIS/MERINT NORAD WORLD WIDE MAGAZINE INFORMATION REQUEST: 134 03/17/57 Transmittal Slip from ADM to Chief Air Staff 135 11/27/57 Under-Secretary of State of External Affairs, Bellemare To: Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence Re: Flying Saucer information request "World Wide Magazine" 136 11/27/57 (Carbon Copy of the Above) 137 11/01/57 High Commissioner for Canada, London, England To: Department of National Affairs Re: Flying Saucer information request "World Wide Magazine" 138 11/01/57 Page two of the above: six questions re: Flying Saucers 139 11/24/57 Purchasing Agent, Scientific Research Canada To: Department of National Defence Re: Request of Flying Saucer Information UFO, HALIBURTON, ONTARIO, 11/10/57 & 11/11/57: 140 11/21/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario Re: UFO reports 11/10/57, 11/11/57 forwarded to Wilbert B. Smith 141 11/21/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Telecom Branch, Ottawa Re: UFO reports 11/10/57, 11/11/57 forwarded 142 11/11/57 Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario To: Officer-in-Charge Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO report 11/11/57 Cardiff, Township, Haliburton, Ontario 143 11/10/57 Mr & Mrs McGovern, Ontario To: Officer-in-Charge Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO report 11/10/57 Cardiff, Township, Haliburton, Ontario 144 (NoDate) Withdrawl Slip: Sargent Weber, NCO in charge Department Air Intelli gence Re: UFO Sighting Report Classified "Confidential" Placed in Department of Air Intelligence Files UFO, VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 06/28/57: 145 07/12/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Mr & Mrs Lightheart, Vancouver, British Columbia Re: UFO report of 06/28/57 UFO, CHARLOTTETOWN, PEI, 07/07/57: 146 07/12/57 Squadron Leader, Lovelace, Chief Air Staff To: Mr. Brasil, Tween River, Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island Re: UFO report of 07/07/57 147 07/10/57 Mr. Brasil, Charlottetwon, Prince Edward Island To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: Flying Saucer report of 07/07/57 148 07/10/57 (Page Two of the Above) 149 12/02/56 TELEX: Turbay Station Re: UFO/Meteor intercept "Engine Feathered" 150 03/12/56 RECLASSIFICATION SHEET Re: "Balloon Incident" placed on 004-4 DASS/S4 151 10/22/56 Vancouver Council of Social Engineering General Welfare Movement To: PIO in charge, Press Desk, Air Force Intelligence, Washington, DC Re: Questioning Order that all UFOs to be Fired Upon THOMAS MEADOWS LETTER, 09/17/56: 152 09/28/56 Flight Lieutenant, Short for Chief Air Staff To: Thomas Meadows & Co. Ltd. Re: "Flying Saucers from Outer Space" by Keyhoe 153 09/17/56 Thomas Meadows & Co. Ltd. To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Requesting information about UFOs 154 09/17/56 (Envelope for the Above) 155 06/28/55 Telex from Pepperrell Air Force Base, Torbay, Newfoundland To: CANAIRHED, Ottawa Re: UFO disappeared, Ocean Surface, 06/22/55 156 03/18/55 Squad Leader Hudson, Commanding Officer, RCAF STN, Winnipeg, MAN To: Chief Air Staff, Ottawa Re: TCHQ letter C45-1 (SASO) 03/01/55 UFO, OLSGIRTH, MANITOBA, 02/27/55: 157 02/27/55 Olsgirth, Manitoba To: Officer Commanding, RCAF STN, Stevenson FLD, Winnipeg, Manitob a Re: UFO Report of 02/27/55 158 03/18/55 Flight Lieutenant Hudson for Commanding Officer, RCAF Winnipeg To: Olsgirth, Manitoba Re: Unable to Explain UFO, forwarded to Air Force Headquarters 159 03/18/55 Flight Lieutenant Divine for Chief Air Staff To: Office of Air Attache, Colonel Bucchi, Italian Embassy, Ottawa Re: Letter 11/22/54 about Flying Saucers 159b 03/01/55 Fort Saskatee, Alberta To: Director, Board of Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Secrecy and Report 160 03/01/55 (Page Two of the Above) 161 03/01/55 (Page Three of the Above) 161b 03/01/55 (Page Four of the Above, Includes Diagrams) 161c 03/01/55 Temporary Docket, Air Force S940-105 TD-5263 162 11/16/54 Tait To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Request for UFO Information UFO, BELLGRADE, YUGOSLAVIA, 10/25/54: 163 11/08/54 Air Force, Temporary Docket 164 10/28/54 Group Captain Shaw, Air Attache, Bellgrade, Yugoslavia To: Department Air Defence, Air Force Headquarters Re: Flying Saucer UFO report in Yugoslavia 10/25/54 UFO, GIMLI, MANITOBA, 11/12/54: 165 11/12/54 UFO Sighting Report Gimli, Manitoba Taken by Flight Lieutenant Phillipps "SGD" 166 11/12/54 (Page Two of the Above) 167 11/12/54 UFO Sighting Report Gimli, Manitoba 168 11/12/54 (Page Two of the Above) ENKENHUS, WILLOWDALE, ONTARIO: 169 11/05/54 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 170 10/15/54 Squad Leader, Sherwood for Chief Air Staff To: Mrs. Enkenhus, Willowdale, Ontario Re: Forwarding Flying Saucer info to Royal Canadian Air Force 171 10/27/54 Mrs. Enkenhus, Willowdale, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force, Ottawa Re: Requesting Sighting Report Forms for UFO Sightings UFO, CAMPBELLFORD, ONTARIO, 07/02/54: 172 10/14/54 Officer in Charge, Green To: Mr. Joss, Campbelllford, Ontario Re: UFO Report on 07/02/54 173 07/14/54 Mr. Joss, Campbellford, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 07/02/54 174 07/14/54 (Page Two) 175 03/15/54 Campbell To: Iberville, Quebec Re: UFO Report sent (In French) 176 01/15/54 Garrfau, Bourgogne Republicaine, Dijon, France To: Service of Press, Air Ministry, Ottawa Re: UFO information for Newspaper Story UFO, SURREY, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 11/27/53: 177 01/06/54 F/L Coupland for Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command To: Director of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board, Department of Defence, Ottawa Re: Forwarded UFO Report from Air Defence Command 178 12/30/53 Squadron Leader Campbell for Air Officer Command, Air Defence Comm and To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, RCAF Station, Sea Island, November 27, 1953 179 12/01/53 New Westminster, British Columbia To: Officer in Charge, RCAF Station, Sea Island, Vancouver, B.C. Re: UFO Report, Surrey, BC, Silver Disc, 11/27/53 180 12/01/53 (Page Two) 181 (NoDate) F/O Taylor Commanding Officer, RCAF Station, Sea Island, B.C. To: Group Commander, Air Defence Group, Vancouver, B.C. Re: UFO Report, Surrey, BC, Silver Disc, 11/27/53 UFO, PERTH, ONTARIO, 12/11/53: 182 12/29/53 Temporary Docket, Air Force S940-105 TD-362 183 12/22/53 Perth, Ontario (Hand Written) To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 12/11/53 184 12/22/53 (Page Two) 185 01/06/54 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Perth UFO Report 186 01/11/54 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Perth, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report UFO, WELLAND, ONTARIO: 187 12/29/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Report, Welland, Ontario UFOS, JASPER, MERRIKVILLE, SMITH FALLS, ONTARIO, 12/11/53: 188 12/17/53 Department of National Defence, Air Force, Temporary Docket 188b 12/23/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Reports: 1) Jasper, Ontario 2) Merrickville, Ontario 3) Smith Falls, Ontario 189 12/22/53 Squadron Leader, Dyell for Chief Air Staff To: Jasper, Ontario Re: Acknowledge UFO Report 190 12/15/53 Jasper, Ontario (Hand Written) To: Royal Canadian Air Force Re: UFO Report 12/11/53 191 12/15/53 (Page Two) 192 12/16/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket, S940-105 350A 193 12/16/53 Flight Lieutenant, Coupland for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Reports: 1) Jasper, Ontario S940-105 TD 351 2) Merrickville, Ontario S940-105 TD 350A 3) Smith Falls, Ontario 194 12/22/53 Squadron Leader, Dyell for Chief Air Staff To: Jasper, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report 195 12/14/53 Merrikville, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Sighting 12/11/53 196 12/14/53 (Page Two) 197 12/14/53 (Envelope) UFO, WELLAND, ONTARIO, 12/10/53: 198 12/14/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket, S940-105 TD-350 199 12/29/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Welland, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO Report 12/12/53 200 12/29/53 Flight Lieutenant for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, Welland, Ontario 201 12-16-53 Welland, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Report 12/10/53 UFO, MT. ELGIN, TILLSONBURG, ONTARIO, 11/30/53: 202 12/09/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Mt. Elgin, Ontario Re: Acknowledge Receipt of UFO of Report 11/30/53 203 12/08/53 Squadron Leader, Deyell for Chief Air Staff To: Directorate of Scientific Intelligence, Defence Research Board Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO Report, Mt. Elgin, Ontario 204 11-30-53 Mt. Elgin, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Laboratory near Ottawa UFO Report of November 15, 1953 205 11-30-53 (Page Two) 206 11/30/53 (Envelope) UFOS, GREENLAND, 08/06/53: 207 06/25/53 TELEX CANAIRDEF To: CANAIRHED ATTN Department of Air Intelligence Re: UFO Report, Simiutak, Greenland Red UFO destroyed Weather Balloon 208 08/06/53 Royal Canadian Air Force, Captain Pilot Sighting Flying Saucer, Andfolis Valley, Greenland 209 08/06/53 (Page Two) 210 08/06/53 (Page Three) 211 08/06/53 (Page Four) 212 08/06/53 Royal Canadian Air Force Co-pilot report Flying Saucer, Andfolis Valley, Greenland 213 08/06/53 (Page Two) 214 08/06/53 (Page Three) 215 08/06/53 (Page Four) UFO, QUEBEC, 06/10/53: 216 06/12/53 Air Force, Temporary Docket S940-105 TD-163 217 06/12/53 Squadron Leader, Campbell for Chief Air Staff To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Sighting Report 218 06/10/53 UFO Sighting Report, Quebec, June 10, 1953 219 06/10/53 (Page Two) 220 06/10/53 (Page Three) 221 06/10/53 (Page Four) PROJECT SECOND STORY: 222 06/11/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: AOC/ADC, RCAF Station, St. Hubert, Quebec Re: Suggestions for "Second Story" 223 06/11/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Chairman of Project "Second Story" Re: Amendments to UFO Sighting Report Questionnaire UFO, MAGOG, QUEBEC, 12/03/52: 224 12/12/53 Squadron Leader, Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Magog, Quebec Re: Acknowledge Receipt Letter of December 6, 1952 225 12/06/52 Magog, Quebec To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Report of December 3, 1952 (Typed Copy) 226 12/06/52 Magog, Quebec To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Report of December 3, 1952 (Hand Written Original) 227 12/06/52 (Page Two) 228 12/06/52 (Envelope) UFO, GOVAN, SASKATCHEWAN, 10/23/52: 229 11/13/52 Wing Commander Kusiar for Chief Air Staff To: Govan, Saskatchewan Re: Acknowledge Receipt Letter of November 4, 1952 230 11/04/52 Govan, Saskatchewan To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO sighted on October 23, 1952 231 11/04/52 (Envelope for the Above) UFO, YAMACHICHE, QUEBEC 08/10/52: 232 09/20/52 Air Force Temporary Docket S21-1-9 TD-233 233 09/10/52 Wing Commander Kusiar for Chief Air Staff To: Yamachiche, Quebec Re: Acknowledge Receipt Letter of August 10, 1952 (In French) 234 09/10/52 (Envelope) 235 09/10/52 (Back of Envelope) 236 08/10/52 Yamachiche, Quebec (English Translation) To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Sighted 08/10/52 237 08/10/52 Yamachiche, Quebec (English Translation) To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Sighted 08/10/52 238 08/10/52 Yamachiche, Quebec (Hand Written French) To: Department of National Defence Re: UFO Sighted 08/10/52 239 08/10/52 (Page Two) UFO, CHATHAM, ONTARIO, 08/25/52: 240 08/01/52 Air Force Temporary Docket S21-1-9 TD-214 241 07-30-52 Chatham, Ontario To: Parliament Building, Department of Flying Saucer Reports Re: UFO over Lake Erie 242 07/30/52 (Envelope) 243 07/30/52 (Back of Envelope) UNIDENTIFIED METAL STRIPS, NEWCASTLE, ONTARIO: 244 08/25/52 Wing Commander Kusiar for Chief Air Staff To: Newcastle, Ontario Re: Unidentified Metallic Strips Found 245 06/14/52 Newcastle, Ontario To: Royal Canadian Air Force, Intelligence Branch Re: Unidentified Metallic Strips Scattered over Farms 246 06/14/52 (Envelope for the Above) 247 08/14/52 Air Force Temporary Docket S21-1-9 TD-227 (Restricted) 248 08/06/52 Squadron Leader Durhin for Officer Air Command To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: Flying Saucer Reports Received - Stuart Lake, July 19, 1952 - Hudson Bay Post, Hay Lake, August 5, 1952 249 04/07/52 Toronto, Ontario To: Dr. Solandt Re: UFO Sighted in Toronto, April 7, 1952 250 04/07/52 (Page Two of the Above) 251 (NoDate) DRAFT: Instructions for UFO Questionnaire 252 (NoDate) (Page Two of the Above) 253 (NoDate) (Page Three of the Above) 254 04/06/52 Handwritten Note To: Squadron Leader Kusiar of DAI Re: Reply DS-1(?) UFO, LONDON & CENTRALIA, ONTARIO, 03/20/52: 255 08-25-52 TELEX CANAIRDEF To: CANAIRHED DAI Re: UFO over London & Centralia April 20, 1952 UFO from Cleavland heading toward Toronto 256 08-25-52 (Page Two of the Above) UFO, SOLDIERS' SETTLEMENT, BARRIE, ONTARIO, 10/09/51: 257 10/09/51 (Envelope to Department National Defence, Ottawa) 258 10/09/51 Mr. Boone, Soldier's Settlement, Barrie, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa Re: UFO report from Soldier (Handwritten Original) 259 10/09/51 (Page Two of the Above) 260 10/09/51 (Page Three of the Above) 261 10/09/51 Typed Copy of Above UFO Report 262 10/09/51 Typed Copy of Above UFO Report 263 10/09/51 Typed Copy of Above UFO Report 264 10/25/51 Lieutenant Colonel Todd A/DMI To: Department of National Defence, Department of Air Intelligence Re: UFO Report from Mr. Boone in Barrie on 10/09/51 265 08/04/50 Wing Commander Austin, Acting for Department of Air Intelligence To: Secretary, Joint Intelligence Committee Re: Downplay of UFO reports UFO REPORTS, PEACE RIVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 05/22/50: 266 06/21/50 Squadron Leader Hunt for Air Officer Command NWAC To: Chief of Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: BC Police UFO Report from Atlin Detachment 267 05/29/50 Constable Payne, Regt #1017, Atlin Detachment To: Officer Commanding, Peace River District, Pouce Coupe, B.C. Re: Cigar UFO reports of 05/22/50 and 05/23/50 268 06/12/50 RECLASSIFICATION SHEET, DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL REGISTRIES Re: Calgary Professor - Suspicious Activities File moved to S-22-1-40 USA UFO STUDY 1947-1950: 269 05/09/50 Wing Commander Austin, Acting for Department of Air Intelligence To: Air Member, Canadian Joint Staff, Washington Re: Avent to Washington to study USAF Flying Saucer reports 05/14/ 50 270 04/28/50 Air Force Temporary Docket S21-1-9 TD-1, DAI (Restricted) 271 04/27/50 Group Commander Birchall To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Ottawa Re: Letter and Press Release 272 04/21/50 Colonel Saunders, USAF, Chief, Foreign Liaison Branch, Directorate of Intelligence To:Air Commodore Hendrick, Air Member, Canadian Joint Staff, Washi ngton Re: USAF study of Flying Saucers not reproduced for distribution 273 12/27/49 Press Release from Department of Defense, Wshington Re: Discontinued study of Flying Saucers started in 1947 at Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio, Air Materiel Command. UFO, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, 04/17/50: 274 04/23/50 Air Force Temporary Docket S-21-1-9 TD-2, DAI (Restricted) 275 04/17/50 Typed Copy of UFO Report from Ottawa Re: UFO reported on farm near Ottawa 220TH MEETING OF JIC, RE: FLYING SAUCER INVESTIGATIONS: 276 04/19/50 Director of Scientific Intelligence, Langley To: Department Air Intelligence, Room 2621, "A" Building, Ottawa Wing Commander Austin Re: Minutes 220th Joint Intelligence Committee meeting about UFO questionnaire 277 04/19/50 Flying Saucer Sighting Report (First Draft) 278 04/12/50 Minutes 220th Joint Intelligence Committee meeting Items 19,20,21 Re: UFO questionnaire and investigations 279 04/06/50 Director of Scientific Intelligence, Langley To: Secretary, Joint Intelligence Committee Re: Cooperation investigating Flying Saucers over Canada UFO, ROCKCLIFFE, ONTARIO, 03/15/50: 280 03/28/50 Group Captain for Chief of Air Staff To: Vancouver, BC Re: UFO Sighting, Request for more information 281 03/28/50 Group Captain for Cheif of Air Staff To: Air Officer Commanding, Air Transport Command, Rockcliffe, Ont . Re: UFO Reported in Rockcliffe on 03/15/50 FLYING SAUCER, VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 02/26/50: 282 03/13/50 Group Captain, Martyn for Air Officer Commanding, NWAC To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO Reported in Vancouver, BC 283 03/02/50 Vancouver, British Columbia To: Officer in Charge, Department of Intelligence, RCAF, BC Re: Flying Saucer Sighted, Vancouver, 02/26/50 284 03/02/50 (Page Two of the Above) 285 03/17/50 RCAF Message Form, from Air Force Headquarters To: CJS Washington, USA Re: Directorate of Intelligence USAF Flying Saucer Study of Canadian Sightings. FLYING SAUCER REPORT, EDMONTON, ALBERTA, 03/09/50: 286 03/10/50 Group Commander Martyn, for Air Office Command, NWAC To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Flying Saucer Report, Edmonton, Alberta, 03/09/50 287 03/10/50 (Page Two of the Above) FLYING SAUCER, SWIFT CURRENT SASKATCHEWAN, 08/31/49: 288 09/28/49 Wing Commander Timmerman for Air Officer Command, NWAC To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO Sighting near Swift Current, Saskatchewan 289 09/27/49 Major Douthwaite, G-2 Int Western Command To: Department National Defence, Western Command, Edmonton Re: Flying Saucer, Swift Current, Saskatchewan, 08/31/49 290 08/31/49 Extract from "Swift Current Sun" 08/31/49 UFO, FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA, USA, 10/02/48: 291 10/06/48 TELEX: US Asking if Royal Canadian Air Force jets in vicinity of North Dakota on October 2, 1948 292 10/06/48 TELEX: From NWAC to Air Force Headquarters Re: No RCAF jets in vicinity of North Dakota 293 10/08/48 Royal Canadian Air Force Message from Air Force Headquarters To: CJS AFCS Washington Re: Verify that no RCAF jets in vicinity of North Dakota 294 10/06/48 Royal Canadian Air Force Message from Air Force Headquarters To: NWAC Re: Confirm no Jets in Vicinity of Fargo, North Dakota 10/02/48 FLYING SAUCER FOUND, QUEBEC, 09/05/48: 295 09/19/47 Wing Commander Lambert, for Chief of Air Staff To: Dr. Millman, Dominion Observatory, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Flying Saucer maybe a meteorite 296 09/20/47 Wing Commander Lambert, for Chief of Air Staff (in French) To: St. Thomas, d'Aquin, Quebec Re: Acknowledge receipt of letter 297 09/05/47 St. Thomas d'Aquin, Co. St. Hyacinthe-Bagot, Quebec Re: Crashed Flying Saucer found. (Translation from French) 298 09/05/47 St. Thomas d'Aquin, Co. St. Hyacinth-Bagot, Quebec To: Departement du Ministere Re: Crashed Flying Saucer found (Hand Written in French) 299 07/23/47 Wing Commander Lambert for Chief Air Staff To: Theriault, New Brunswick Re: Acknowledge receipt of letter 300 07/21/47 Mr. Nerhe, Theriault, New Brunswick To: National Defence Headquarters Re: Flying Saucers sighted daily 301 (?) (Black Page) UFO, SUMMERSIDE, PEI, 07/03/47: 302 07/11/47 Air Commodore Brown To: Chief of Air Staff, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO Report Summerside, Prince Edward Island ------------------- (end of group) -------------------------- .-----------------------------------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Road, East, London, Ontario, Canada, N6E-3B3 | | Computer/Internet Consultant CUFORN: http://cron-2.mco.net/web/cuforn | | Marketing Consultant MUFON: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:14 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! >During the run, they would drop high-intensity flares, called Luu-2, >made of either magnesium or cesium, Sullins said. The flares are >suspended by a tiny parachute and take a long time to drop, Sullins >said. >The planes completed their required runs and their time at the busy >range was coming to a close. But the A-10s still had a bunch of flares >on board, and Davis-Monthan doesn't let planes land with flares aboard. Could someone explain what purpose this training serves? Is it typical for a formation of about 8 A-10's to synchronously drop flares? When would this be useful in time of war? Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:18 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:37:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:59 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >My statement almost three years ago about the film being brittle >was based on its physical condition. I have not tried to break >the samples I have, as I am preserving them in original condition >in the hope of eventually getting proper testing to confirm age. >Purdy's belief that the film could come from the 60s is totally >subjective, and based, in part, on his firm belief that the whole >thing is a hoax. >You are right that I have grown tired of endless debate over trivia >while the important issues are mostly ignored/avoided. Bob, f this isn't a hoax, it is a shame that almost three years later no one (not only you) hasn't stepped up to prove otherwise. Lip service doesn't cut it. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:23 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:38:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >before mid-1955. Records may not have surfaced which prove what >did "crash" at Roswell, but records most certainly have surfaced >to show what did NOT crash at Roswell. What did NOT crash at >Roswell was an alien spaceship. Twining's September 23, 1947, >proves this. The companion study prepared by AF Intel at HQ USAF >proves this. The minutes of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board >meeting of March 17-18, 1948, prove this. The early Nov. '48 >letter from AMC chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy >to AF chief of intel MG Charles Cabell proves this. So do a number >of other documents from the same time period and later prove this. >To any reasonable person, this is CONCLUSIVE proof of what the >Roswell incident did NOT involve. CASE CLOSED! Karl, Look at this possibility. If ... Roswell really involved an extraterrestrial space vehicle, do you expect minutes of a released USAF Scientific Advisory Board or a letter from AMC chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy to REALLY say it was such? So my point is that these documents, because they are released, doesn't PROVE it wasn't a crashed saucer. As you might recall, the military put the lid on Roswell with Gen. Ramey's press conference. Thus, any released information after then could NEVER say it was a crashed saucer. Especially since the GAO's efforts to find information regarding this incident were fruitless. In my opinion, you are mistaken when you say "CASE CLOSED!". <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:00:58 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:40:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:51:26 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) >>Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:26 -0400 >>Subject: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Dear List: >>This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >>the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >>Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >>that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >>and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >>just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. >>Air Guard unit sheds >>light on Valley's UFOs >>Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic >>"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. >As a side note, I don't expect to see much assistance from >the military when it comes to trying to find out what UFOs >are. In the words of Jacques Vallee a la Hector Quintenilla >"UFO reports are just an annoyance". After looking at some >of the Bluebook cases I would have to expect that the Air >Force will continue to offer mundane explanations for UFO >sightings irrespective of whether such explanations fit the >facts or not. This appears to be policy. In the absence of >an obvious conclusion fabricate something tangible. I have >no idea what inspired such a policy or why the Air Force >continues to do this. >Jared. Suppose they said 'Yeah it was a UFO'. Then what? __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #160 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:38:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:42:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #160 Apology to MW #160 (For July 26, 1997) Ask the working Jane or Joe if the FED is really federal, And they tell you "Oh yeah sure," and go their way. "It would have to be governed." They'd logically reason, "It controls ALL the money, it sets all our pay." Well here's something true that the watchers have watched -- The richest one percent, and _very_ private -- These are the men that make up the FED! They exploit this *convenience* and hide it. These are the same ones deflecting the science From the solar, geo-thermal, the wind, and the tide. These are the ones who have got us all metered. We're just the ones that they take for their ride. Disrespect is trickling down, so we bring it on ourselves, That snooty look *down nose* that's somehow pleasing. And the row bum castes his proud look at the *crazy* on his street. It's the bottom of our human heap, with real people freezing. "But they're beneath my proud contempt" ! "They're not worthy of concern" ! "Consideration's not their lot." "They made their bed, and now they'll learn." But what if their bed is a bag of damp straw? And where is the "safety net" touted by Reagan? What of black agencies selling of hard drugs? And deals with dictators, warlords, and Satans? I know *back* is the way that I find my self paying! It's their gub'ment, their media, their equipment, their rules! But their way would not work, so well as it's working, If they were teaching nothing but TRUTH in our schools. I remember my seventh grade history teacher. . . His face all proud and beaming, "Uncle Sam, as he stands, is unthreatened by coup!=20 "It is impossible!" He was nearly screaming! I come to find out that that teacher was wrong. There _was_ a coup attempt by some boys of the FED. . . Du Pont, and Morgan -- research on those names. . . General Butler was loyal, or we could all be dead! And since then, to be sure, there are more unjust coups. . . JFK was a coup when they shot out his brain. Reagan couped Carter with deals to Iran. Coups are hidden history, our curse -- and our stain. And remember what's at stake are the starry stellar reaches, And the postulated watchers we could find there! Remember that we could all be existing out in space! But, our fate's unjustly metered by some men who coldly dare. The men who dare to write for you the fabric of your life. They write the dark communiqu=E9, unread. It's wrong that those who _have_ the gold can also make the rules, It's wrong to have no oversight on an unelected FED! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Our overall money problems would begin to disappear the moment the Federal Reserve came to government rein . . . our only attempt earlier this century was working well, I understand, and then the Meter Man reassumed greedy control. Now we have a five trillion dollar debt, the DOW over 8000, and _flat_ wages. [Feel the incredulity like a monkey on your back!] --=20 Explore the Alien View? ----. | * http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out his own FED. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:25:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:45:18 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 7/26/97 Quote of the Week "Me and my family moved in our apartment complex A gate with the serial code was put up next They claim that this community is so drug free But it don't look that way to me..." --Goodie Mob, "Cell Therapy" -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "The Choice Is Yours" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Elena" admonishes us for our slogan that "Something Strange Is Happening," explaining that it's nothing more than what is clearly laid out in the "Good Book." Enjoy! "NOTHING STRANGE IS HAPPENING EXCEPT WHAT HAS BEEN FORETOLD IN THE BIBLE, IN REVALATION, THE EVIL ONE WILL HAVE COMPLETE FOOLED AND BLINDEDT THE EYES OF THEM WHO REFUSE TO SEEK GOD. THIS IS NO NEW PHENOMINUM. THE EXSTREMIST AND HIGH ARKYS WILL PRAY ON THE SIMPLY AND WEAK. TRUTH DOES NOT PRAY ON , BUT INVITES ALL WHO WILL LISTEN, WISDOM CALLS TO THOSE WHO WILL TURN AN EAR. THE CHOICE IS UP TO YOU. DO YOU WANT TRUTH OR ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH A LIE. mAY THE LORD LEAD YOU INTO TRUTH WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF HIS SON JESUS. YOU WILL SPEND YOUR ETERNITY IN ETHER PLACE HEAVEN OR HELL THE CHOICE IS UP TO YOU. JESUS SIAD I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME. THE CHOICE IS YOURS AND THE CONSIQUENCES OF THE CHOICE REMAIN WITH YOU FOR AN ETERNITY. I PRAY YOU WILL CHOOSE TRUTH AND LIFE." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Sign Up Now for a Free CD-ROM ParaScope is pleased to offer our readers a chance to sample "Launch," the multimedia CD-ROM magazine, absolutely free. Listen to exclusive live performances by your favorite bands and hear them talk about their music and their lives. Go behind the scenes of upcoming movies with today's leading actors and filmakers. Play demos and read reviews of the newest computer games on the market. You can sample "Launch" at no risk and no cost by clicking on the "Launch" ad banner wherever you see it on the ParaScope AOL or web site. Check it out! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Get In on the Conversation The Grassy Knoll in Dallas is infamous for its conspiratorial overtones, puffs of smoke and unseen snipers. The Grassy Knoll in ParaScope is famous for its fun times and good conversation. Stop by the Knoll and join the action every night. Also, join us in the Crop Circle, ParaScope's web-based chat room every Saturday night at 9pm ET for great times and good conversation. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, July 28: Conspiracy Newsline Catch all the latest news from the fringes of shady politics, scummy corporations, oppressive regimes and twisted media outlets, coming your way five times a week in ParaScope's daily resource for cognitive dissidents. Conspiracy Newsline has all the stories you'll never get from so-called "legitimate" news sources. --------------- Tuesday, July 29: Internet Censorship and "Voluntary" Site Ratings In the wake of the Supreme Court's rejection of the unconstitutional Communications Decency Act, the buzzword around the White House is "voluntary" Internet censorship. A recent White House summit on the issue brought together politicians, industry luminaries (including America Online's Steve Case) and parent groups to discuss strategies for self-regulation of Internet content. Privacy groups and the American Civil Liberties Union -- originally snubbed by the President -- were extended a last-minute invitation to attend, but found that the outcome of the meeting had already been determined at a private pre-summit conference. Their plan: "voluntary" site ratings and browser-embedded filtering devices that will screen out "naughty" bits...and possibly exclude all "unrated" sites by those who choose not to participate in the new scheme. ParaScope takes a closer look at an "improvement" that could be every bit as damaging to online free speech as the now-discredited CDA. --------------- Wednesday, July 30: Atlanta's Plans for Gated Public Housing Communities Atlanta could become one of the first large metropolitan areas in the United States to erect gates for access-controlled public housing complexes. The Atlanta Housing Authority plans to build gated fences around three crime-plagued housing projects and require ID cards and car decals for residents. City officials say they want to bring "upscale, suburban touches" to public housing to lower crime and attract more middle class residents to low income developments. But some residents are questioning whether the fences are being built to keep crime out or keep residnets in. ------------- Thursday, July 31: Bigfoot Spotted in South Carolina You've no doubt heard of the Carolina Panthers, the NFL's latest (and greatest) expansion team. But what about the Carolina Sasquatch? An 8-foot-tall, "really fat" sasquatch with large teeth "like baby blocks" was sighted in Neeses, South Carolina recently, causing a squall of "bigfoot panic" among the locals. The shaggy behemoth was reportedly spotted trying to break into some dog pens, leading the eyewitness to speculate that it might have been looking for a macabre canine snack. But there has been a bit of confusion regarding the identity of the witness, and residents have criticized the local newspaper for jumping the gun in its coverage of the sighting. Enigma editor D. Trull combs out all the hairy details of this latest sasquatch sighting. --------------- Friday, August 1: The Propaganda Papers Free information is vital to the democratic process. And skewed information can skew the democratic process -- which is why so many governments and other powerful entities carry out propaganda campaigns and engage in psychological warfare. Ironically, the Internet is the newest psywar staging ground, as well as the most powerful tool citizans have for fighting back. In this special report, Dossier editor Jon Elliston presents a guide to propaganda analysis on the web, as well as official state propaganda outlets now online. Do you know where you're data's been? Find out next week. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:04:04 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:47:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mars Pathfinder photo #81977 >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:06:01 -0700 >Hello Again, >Just to clear up a thing or two. I have checked the OFFICIAL >NASA site and found that the pictures ARE there. Apparently, >they were taken off and then put back on. HOWEVER...the photo >is MUCH less distinct than the original that was there to >begin with...hmmmm, could they have pulled it long enough to >distort the background and put it back up in this POOR >quality? YOU decide! I sent out the original, compare the >sharpness if you like to that of the NOW AVAILABLE image on >the official JPL site at: >http://mpfwww.arc.nasa.gov/ops/81977_full.jpg . Right, NASA is so incompetent that they accidentally put up a picture offering proof of an extinct Martian civilization on their website, just long enough for a few people to capture it, then they change it, and expect no one to notice. I believe that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - July From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:37:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:48:58 -0400 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - July Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Web Site Update July 25, 1997 __________________________ In this update: NEW 1996 CROP CIRCLE REPORT Previously Unreported Circle Near Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan For further details on this and previous news items, please see the News and Reports 1997 section of the CPR-Canada web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Keep checking for news on 1997 Canadian circle formations This web site requires a frames-enabled browser __________________________ Paul Anderson Director CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 VernonClark Pissed with Albuquerque Journal From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 06:08:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:55:07 -0400 Subject: VernonClark Pissed with Albuquerque Journal Received the ensueing e-mail from Skye Turell and searched the web and the usenet for VernonClark's statements to CBS, but without result. 27. July 1997 00.57.39 Message From: turel33@west.net,Internet Subject: Re: VernonClark Backpeddaling To: Stig Agermose Stig: I sent your newsgroup posting of the Albuquerque article around to my personal distribution list, which includes GeebeeR@aol.com, who is very connected to the Sims-Leir group. They say that VernonClark didn't say what the ALBQ paper says he did. >From: GeebeeR@aol.com >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:18:12 -0400 (EDT) >To: turel33@west.net >cc: RKLeir1st@aol.com, AliceMufon@aol.com, Derrel@holman.net >Subject: Re: VernonClark Backpeddaling >Skye, >Dr. Russel VernonClark said yesterday in and interview with Chris >Wyatt of CBS, that he had said none of what was quoted in this >article. The reporter who wrote the story is in a lot of hot water, >and may well be sued for libel. Dr. VernonClark was on vacation >at the time. >Too bad he didn't check his facts either. >Don Skye Turell turel33@west.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:57:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:51:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:18 GMT >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>f this isn't a hoax, it is a shame that almost three years >>later no one (not only you) hasn't stepped up to prove >>otherwise. Lip service doesn't cut it. <g>>> And geeez Rog, it's equally a shame that that, that you and anyone in your lip service after all these years can't prove its a hoax! But hey, my friend, if you ever want to offer something new, you would be on my list of first to listen to. Where are you now on actual research into this right now? Hope to hear from you, its been a while Rog! Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 UFOSearch # 9 - Science, Counterintelligence and From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 03:51:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:50:28 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch # 9 - Science, Counterintelligence and This is part two of the ninth essay by UFOSearch posted on UFO UpDate. This essay is being published for the first time on this list. Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Part Two of Four Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis The assumptions of science, as discussed in Part One, mean that the great power of science is most properly used in the study of the natural world, a world considered to be "objective" and subject to totally consistent laws. Science and the resulting technology have given us enormous benefits and powers, most of them involving the exploitation of this same natural world. It should be obvious that if another intelligence moves into that natural world with us then it is no longer "objective" and that the scientific method is going run into problems.[6] This is because the activities of this hypothetical other intelligence almost certainly WILL NOT be what we would call understandable and consistent, especially in the beginning. Therefore, when such evidence as might be created by this other intelligence is presented to science, to any scientific study, it will most likely be rejected, due to the inconsistencies and lack of understanding that would probably be involved. And this assumes that the other intelligence is NOT interested in making itself less than understandable, that is, it is not interested in "fooling" us or distracting us for its own purposes, purposes which may be, no, almost certainly WILL be, very difficult to understand under any circumstances. It is for these reasons that any investigation of the UFO should use science and technology in a manner quite different from how they are used by science itself. It seems obvious to this writer that the counterintelligence paradigm or model is what we should be using most of the time with UFOs. Let us proceed on this assumption and look at counterintelligence and how it might be used in the investigation of the UFO. A Counterintelligence Method For the UFO investigator counterintelligence begins with a cold hard look at his limitations: 1) The investigator is a human being attempting to make sense of actions that might be due to an equal or superior intelligence, an intelligence with large resources at its disposal. 2) Because of 1) above, absolute certainty is probably not going to ever be obtained vis-a-vis the UFO. That is, the investigator is probably never going to KNOW what the UFO is and/or is doing. 3) What the investigator is going to have is evidence, evidence from which possibilities will have to be deduced and studied. 4) From these possibilities one or two will eventually have to be selected. That is, a tentative conclusion is going to be created and accepted, if only as a step toward focussing future research. 5) Finally, action is going to have be recommended or taken based on that conclusion, to be reached at some future time. 6) Because the investigator is not connected to the government or other large-scale resource, and he is not a full-time UFO researcher, he has severe time and money limitations. Therefore, the research is going to take some time, probably many years. 7) Because the subject of the UFO is on the cultural fringe in the United States today, there will be certain risks for the investigator. His family may not approve, nor may some of his co-workers and or superiors. These factors also tend to slow things down and limit the personal resources available. 8) In view of items 1) through 7) above the investigator has to be very judicious in the use of his time and money. He really cannot afford to "waste" too much of either. Therefore, anyone who deliberately attempts to waste his time in the UFO arena is doing some real damage since there is little surplus available. 9) Through all of the above the investigator is going to have to maintain his emotional commitment and stability. This is sometimes very difficult when the investigator is working alone. Yet things get little better if the investigator bands together with others in the field. UFO investigators tend to be, due to the nature of the subject, an independent and sometimes difficult lot. It is quite easy to become distracted. 10) Thus, in the end, the investigator will become an autodidact of a sort, almost totally self-taught and self-referential. This creates more problems, especially in the hoped-for event that the investigator discovers something of real value. How would such a discovery be communicated, and to whom? That is, who can truly be trusted? This is a consideration of consequence if you bother to look at the bizarre careers of purported UFO "evidence" in the past. Such evidence is always attacked, quickly, and by people with standing and money. This is always very difficult to take. 11) Then, unfortunately, there are other considerations, ones of an even more unpleasant nature. UFO investigators have in the past gotten themselves into trouble with several of our human "authorities," either because the investigator caused them a problem or was indiscreet vis-a-vis protected information and/or facilities. And then there are the "others," whomever "they" are, IF they are. It sometimes appears that "they" take a hand as well, and that can be a BIG problem for the investigator. So, in consideration of the items above, how can counterintelligence help us? Well, I believe it can help us in three ways: 1) Counterintelligence is quite comfortable with that bugaboo of conventional science, uncertainty. Physics demands that gravity "work" all the time while counterintelligence can live quite well with phenomena that "work" only part of the time. 2) Counterintelligence can deal with opposition, with an opponent, and with the fact that this "other intelligence" is truly unknown, as are its motives. 3) Counterintelligence is at its heart a defensive methodology, concerned with security, and taking very little at face value. What could be more useful if the UFO truly does represent the actions of an unknown intelligence on Earth? Upon reflections it seems obvious, the UFO investigator should acquire a counterintelligence frame of mind, a set of attitudes following from the weaknesses and uncertainties outlined above: 1) The UFO, if it represents another intelligence, will be very difficult to understand. There will be no certainty. 2) This other intelligence, if it exists, is here for a serious purpose, not to provide nighttime entertainment for human beings or to admire Niagara Falls. This must be true no matter "who" is involved or "where" they are from. Resources are being expended and this must entail a cost, in energy if nothing else. 3) While it certainly is possible that this other intelligence is here for our benefit, it is not likely that this is the principal reason "they" are here. That is, the chance that this "other intelligence" has crossed time and space, and incurred significant costs, simply to help us out, is surely vanishingly small. And a little reflection will reveal that whatever these others might call "help" might mean something entirely different to us. 4) Therefore this other intelligence could well be "hostile," in some way or other, on some time scale or other, and in ways that might not be immediately obvious to human beings. 5) Thus, extreme caution must be used, both in evaluation of UFO evidence and the scenarios and conclusions derived from that evidence. We human beings truly do not KNOW what is happening. 6) If the UFO is "real" and a product of another intelligence then the "human/UFO" axis is very important. The UFO is now known to hundreds of millions of human beings, and may have been seen (or worse) by millions of others. Without a doubt, the UFO is interacting with humans in some way or other, perhaps in hopes of influencing the actions of those humans within human society. 7) Item 6) above opens up a counterintelligence Pandora's box, one that requires close study of HUMAN culture and society, in particular the investigator's own, in search of UFO effects. 8) Thus a possible first step for the UFO investigator would be the study of HUMAN counterintelligence, in order to learn its methods and perhaps adopt some of them. One of the original Office of Strategic Services (OSS) sections was called "R&A" for "Research And Analysis," something any UFO investigator can do, time and money notwithstanding. [7] Counterintelligence In The Human World In U.S. corporate and military circles, that is, from the economic, political and military heights of our society, it is obvious that there are enemies or opponents at large in the world who are active against their interests. For this reason the elites of our economy and military use counterintelligence (CI) and spend tens of millions of dollars per year doing it. The goals of these programs are several and include determining who is in opposition to U.S. corporate and military interests and what those in opposition (both individuals and organizations) are doing in the way of anti-U.S. activity. The targeted individuals and organizations include both foreign AND domestic entities, the domestic targets including, at times, American citizens going about business lawful under the U.S. Constitution. That is, as has been shown over and over again in our history, the "interests" of those at the top of our society do not always coincide with the "interests" of those of us at other levels. All too often secrecy and compartmentalization of information have been used to cover what would later be found to be simple malfeasance or actual crimes, some of them harmful to thousands of U.S. citizens over many years. We live in a complicated world, one in which "white" is sometimes "black" and vice-versa. We ignore this fact at our peril, as we all should know by now. [8], [9] In addition, it is unfortunate but true that when "ordinary citizens" organize to effect changes in national policy the agents of our elites become very interested in that organization and sometimes use CI techniques against it. If the Watergate revelations revealed anything they revealed this. During the Cold War years the FBI, CIA or military intelligence (MI) had infiltrated nearly every "civilian" organization of importance in the United States, all a part of their "internal security" functions, though the CIA supposedly had none. [10] The post-Watergate era saw revelations of infiltration even of UFO organizations, the charges made by many in the field, including Raymond Fowler and Todd Zechel. [11], [12] So, how does U.S. counterintelligence go about its business? Well, the first step is information collection, both overt and covert, ("research"). Then, once this information has suggested a plan ("analysis"), investigators, infiltrators and even "agents provocateurs" are placed so as to gather truly important information ("operations"). All of this requires a large staff, and as was stated above, costs a great deal of money, especially when powerful opponents are involved. And that money is spent in some very interesting places, to say the least. [13] In the world of counterintelligence the tools of science and technology are very important but the scientific method is not the ideal analytical tool. This is so even though those involved in counterintelligence know and understand that top-flight science and high technology have a great deal to do with who wins and who loses, and are absolutely necessary. But human counterintelligence operatives do not use the strict scientific method and the strict scientific definitions of evidence and proof. If they did they would never "prove" anything and their organizations would be vulnerable to their enemies and opponents and soon be overrun by them. Human counterintelligence operatives know that objectivity is never going to truly exist for them and that they are going to have to act on incomplete and even conflicting information. This is true because no matter how much money and effort is expended the human world is sufficiently complicated that certainty is rarely even approximated. Counterintelligence And Its Problems In any human counterintelligence operation the keys are in people, the people in your operation and the people in your opponent's organization. In the final analysis you have to know whose side everyone is on and if you don't know that then you are in very serious trouble. Thus, in counterintelligence programs everyone is vetted, checked out, tested, and more than once. No one can be truly trusted until nearly everything is known about them, at least everything considered of importance. In spite of today's high-tech toys, those who "know" understand that it is only through thorough knowledge of people that true security is obtained. We will be coming back to this very important point later in this paper. Because of this "oppositional" element in counterintelligence things are done that would be anathema to science. For instance, if a serious threat is seen, even from American citizens going about their lawful business, U.S. counterintelligence has in the past infiltrated agents into suspect groups, and, believe it or not, even into U.S. counterintelligence itself! This is so because the counterintelligence agency must determine the ultimate loyalty of all the people involved, or at least as many of them as possible. And it is true in spite of the fact that the use of counter-intelligence (CI) in this way can lead to problems, some of them revolving around morale in your own organization (as it becomes suspected that agents exist within it) and other problems having to do with the reliability of information returned by your own agents in other organizations. The world of CI can become a hall of mirrors where solid information can become very scarce indeed, in part due to the presence of the many agents planted up and down the organizations of all the players, by all the other players, including, of course, yourself! [14] Now, what does all of this have to do with the UFO? Well, it has a lot to do with it, once you accept that there is another intelligence here on Earth with us. At the moment you accept this you should become, whether you like it or not, a counter-intelligence agent attempting to discover what the UFO is and what it is doing on Earth. And you have to consider that this "UFO agency" is very powerful in a mysterious way, and here for an important purpose, a purpose that more than likely will have an impact on human beings! Now perhaps my readers are starting to see why the UFO is such a problem for "the authorities" and their counterintelligence apparatus. They are used to knowing what is going on in the world, used to doing what they like much of the time. And they are used to knowing that they are, in many ways, the ultimate source of authority and power on Earth. It should be obvious that they are not going to be eager to reveal a different situation to the public at large, especially should that situation include a mysterious "UFO." Yes, indeed, the UFO presents huge problems for the security apparatus of any nation or national-level institution. These exist in the main to protect the economic, political and social status quo, and the UFO could be a serious threat to social, economic and military stability of both U.S. and world society. Put yourself in the position of a human CI officer. How much truly solid, reliable information can be gotten on this other intelligence and what it is doing? Maybe NONE if this other intelligence is superior to you and to humans in general, which it could likely be! What if IT is in charge of "knowing," not you? These are not possibilities that make for sound sleep among security personnel like yourself. And, of course, you are NOT going to be able to infiltrate agents into the UFO organization so as to get better information, are you? No, even with all the money and staff you have available this is impossible! On the other hand, this other intelligence MAY, under certain circumstances, be able to place its agents into YOUR organization, might it not, especially if it had initiated "contact" with human beings, particular human beings, human beings who might have dealings with counterintelligence? Here, if you dared to think about it, were security problems of awesome difficulty. That is, what if the UFO agency was using the same techniques that YOU have always used! How could such a program be detected and defeated? [15] Thus we see that our human limitations mean that we in counterintelligence must deal primarily with other human beings, not directly with the "others," should they exist. That is, we must deal in the main with the people involved: the people experiencing UFOs, the people investigating UFOs and the people who oppose and support the various aspects of the UFO. Until we understand who a significant number of these people are, what their backgrounds are and something about they are doing, we actually know very little about what is going on, either at the human or UFO end of things. It is a fact that for human beings in 1997 the UFO comes to us with a human face, nearly all the time, usually in the form of reports. Physical science, mechanistic and "objective" as it is, can be of little real help, conceptually speaking, in this arena. Thus a primary part of my research, as it must be for the institutional counterintelligence officer, is the human side of the UFO equation. And right away the world divides into camps, several of them, all requiring attention if a representative picture is to be obtained. And so it is not enough to investigate only the UFO reports and the people who make them. We also have to examine those who promulgate and maintain the strong resistance on the part of mainstream culture to the possible reality of the UFO. You see, for me, as a counter-intelligence agent without portfolio, I had to consider the possible effects of the "official" counterintelligence people. I had to look at ALL the players: the UFOs, the putative "opposition" (at all levels) as well as the witnesses and proponents of the UFO. And they all needed evaluation! After all, who could really tell who was who and what was what in this arena, given that human counterintelligence was likely involved? As I have indicated, would it be in the interests of the human counterintelligence agencies to clarify the situation for people like me, for private citizens investigating the UFO? No, it would not. I would be a problem for them, someone to be hindered or distracted, especially if I got onto something good. In the view of human counterintelligence, and for those who ultimately employ them, people like me have no "need to know" and will be told only what "authority" wants to reveal if and when "authority" wants to reveal it. [16] In my case, as a counterintelligence agent without official standing, I began to examine the opinion leaders and elite members of the scientific world and then the economic elite of our society at large, the actual employers of CI in our country. You see, it is an unfortunate fact that as a counterintelligence agent without portfolio I had numerous possible opponents, among them these "others," whomever they are, and the several power structures of my own culture, some of which seemed to stand in total opposition to the very idea of intelligently-controlled, unidentified flying objects (and/or occupants), purpose unknown. It thus became imperative to determine who some of those people were and what they had been doing from the heights of their social and economic positions. [17] There were some interesting questions to be answered in this area. For instance, was the "mainstream" position held in a solid block, across all important individuals and groups? Was it true that ALL elements our government and military elites were opposed to the idea of the "UFO," or were there elements on both sides of the issue? And what were they doing about those beliefs? Was there any reason to think that they might be dissembling, even lying, about their position vis-a-vis the UFO? No matter, I had to know more about the elites of my own culture: scientific, military, governmental and economic, because these elites were the source of the worldview that most of us carry around in our head. In the end, it was these folks who had the position, money and time to "do something" about the UFO, and about ME, should they come to believe that action was necessary. That is, it was they who were the chief users of human counter-intelligence. We should never forget that it is generally true that the ruling ideas are the ideas of the rulers, one way or another, and that the things they want to happen have an uncanny way of taking place. Notes To Part Two [6] For a very enlightening look at one scientist's view of the UFO and the scientific method see page 87 of the July, 1997, issue of the magazine ASTRONOMY. The scientist is Dr. James B. Kaler of the University of Illinois, who says, "Science depends on the repeatability of experiment or observation. The evidence for UFOs being alien spacecraft, however, is suspect and neither consistent nor repeatable." He then goes on to mention the Condon report as an example of how "scientists have examined the evidence in a variety of studies, and have accepted their findings." I need hardly say more. [7] See CLOAK & GOWN, Robin Winks, 1987, Wm. Morrow & Co., for details of the Research And Analysis section of the Office of Strategic Services. On page 449 begins a discussion of the work of Yale alum Sherman Kent, who used outside "R&A" in a scholarly way to enhance "strategic intelligence." [8] One might take a look at A NATION OF SHEEP, William Lederer, W.W. Norton & Co., 1961, for a revealing (and early) view of how our "intelligence community" operated overseas and kept the ugly secrets from the home folks through a cooperative national-level press, which reported "black" as "white" for many years. Chapter One of this book, entitled "The Laos Fraud," was especially instructive for me, a Vietnam veteran with an uncle who was nearly shot down over Laos in 1971. On page 30 we read, "And most immoral of all-the government and press have not been honest with us. Officials hid their mistakes and simultaneously claimed nonexistent successes." Thus it continues today. [9] Another interesting look at the seamy underside of American life is to be found in HARRY TRUMAN AND THE GREAT WAR SCARE OF 1948, Frank Kofsky, St. Martin's Press, 1993. Kofsky shows how the Cold War got rolling in part to keep the aircraft companies busy cutting metal, in leased plants, at profit rates exceeding 50-percent per annum on invested capital. But perhaps of even greater interest is a paragraph on page 174 reporting that Truman told New York TIMES reporter Arthur Krock, on April 7, 1948, that the United States was on the verge of an aviation breakthrough obviating the need of the proposed new air groups. Said the President, "We are on the verge of a discovery that will make obsolete everything now being manufactured." One might keep in mind the purported date of the Roswell vehicle recovery. [10] THE CIA AND THE CULT OF INTELLIGENCE, Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks, Alfred A. Knopf, 1974, contains an appendix called "The Bissell Philosophy," referring to Richard Bissell, former Deputy Director For Plans of CIA. The appendix consists of the minutes of a meeting held at Pratt House (headquarters of the Council on Foreign Relations) on January 8, 1968. On page 393 an attendee states that the CIA's "real" charter is still secret and that U.S. labor leaders, among them the head of the AFL-CIO, Walter Reuther, were in CIA's pay. Domestic security, indeed. [11] JUST CAUSE, January 1979, contains an article, "NI-CIA-AP or NICAP," outlining possible CIA infiltration of Keyhoe's group. Several top people in NICAP had associations with CIA, including, of course, former DCI Hillenkoetter. Immediately after several more had joined NICAP's board, including the former head of CIA's Psychological Warfare group, Colonel Joseph Bryan, NICAP began to die, going out of existence in the early 1970s. Much of this information is contained in ABOVE TOP SECRET, Timothy Good, William Morrow, 1987. See especially pages 346 to 349. [12] CASEBOOK OF A UFO INVESTIGATOR, Raymond Fowler, Prentice-Hall, 1981, pp. 55-67, has more information on CIA and "intelligence community" infiltration of UFO groups in the United States. See especially page 60 for a brief mention of former CIA briefing officer Karl Pflock, who was chairman of NICAP's Washington, D.C. group at the very end. [13] See AMERICA'S SECRET POWER, Loch K. Johnson, Oxford University Press, 1989. The author is a professor of political science at the University of Georgia and participated in the Church Committee hearings on the CIA in the middle 1970s. He goes into interesting detail on CIA use of academics around the world. See especially page 135 and the section entitled "Counter-intelligence Comes Home." [14] CLOAK & GOWN (see above) contains a chapter on James Jesus Angleton, the head of counterintelligence for CIA in the 1960s and 1970s. During the great "mole hunt" of the 1970s the "hall of mirrors" effect reached its apogee inside the agency. See pages 409 to 438 for this story, along with information on the CIA mail-opening programs of the Cold War years, programs in which the agency opened hundreds of thousands of letters written by U.S. citizens going about their lawful business. [15] For an interesting look down a very dark rabbit hole indeed see Richard Condon's THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, Random House, 1959, a book with strange "UFO-related" references and odd connections to the Lear Letters of the late 1980s. See pages 181 to 190 of the Dell paperback edition for the strangest UFO-related sequence of all, in which Major Marco meets the "lady from the stars" and his wife-to-be. [16] INVISIBLE RESIDENTS, Ivan Sanderson, 1967, has a very fine introduction which outlines how "officialdom" will talk about flying saucers in the sky but the minute things come down to earth these same officials become very, very quiet. On page 9 Sanderson speaks about the "panic" among officials that can result from UFO activity. [17] See THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH, Ferdinand Lundberg, Lyle Stewart, Inc., 1968, the follow-up to his 1937 book AMERICA'S SIXTY FAMILIES. In his 1968 book Lundberg writes at length of how the elite of our country make the nation's policy in their private clubs. See pages 282-290 for the details. See also Blum's OUT THERE (page 152) for imbedded references to secret UFO policy conversations in the exclusive Brook Club in New York. *** End -- Part Two of Four
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:05:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:55:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:59:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists >Of course, this kind of totally one-sided attitude would not be unexpected >if there had never been any UFO Roswell event. But in any event, I wonder >just how simple it would be to mix together such trace amounts of the >proper isotopic abundances of Ni, Ag, Zn, GE, etc. within the 99%+ silicon >piece, and obtain the observed isotopic ratios upon examination? The >Kentucky chemist or others really need to try this, and give honest >results of their findings, before making such a statement. >The very small amount of unstable Ge (75) isotope found present is >certainly perplexing, but that might point to something presently unknown >to 20th-century chemistry. Even Carl Sagan used to say that what advanced >ETs could do ought to seem like magic to us (in repeating Arthur Clark), >and this ought to apply to the field of chemistry & materials science as >well as to interstellar travel. >Jim Deardorff Those who attended the July 4th presentation made by Paul Davids, Derrel Sims, and Russ VernonClark are aware that many questions were left unanswered. From statements that have been made since the event, it is clear that VernonClark was only making an appearance because he was under an agreement to do so. In private correspondence, he has indicated hope that a journal article on the "debris" should be completed within a year. At that time he, and the other un-named scientists, will be more prepared to defend their theories. If the ratio of various isotopes hold up under scrutiny. It would be very interesting to find some of the at a local chemistry shop, as alleged. Isotopes can, of course, be created in a laboratory. This is one of the facets of this that must be studied before the article is completed, and has been mentioned by Sims in his public statements. Scientists, like all of us, are entitled to opinions. Unfortunately, newspaper reporters are rarely critical of the information they are given and have only limited space to explain what are often obscure details. IMHO, without completion of the research and release of the findings through an accepted journal article, the July 4th presentation will become little more than an interesting addition to the "myth".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 07:59:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:58:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 ---------- >From: snake@mwaz.com [Desiree Holloway] > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 > Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 9:47 PM > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 > From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:04:04 EDT > >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] > >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Mars Pathfinder photo #81977 > >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:06:01 -0700 > Right, NASA is so incompetent that they accidentally put up > a picture offering proof of an extinct Martian civilization > on their website, just long enough for a few people to > capture it, then they change it, and expect no one to notice. > I believe that. Mr Jamison, I just have a few points to bring up with you. 1) I NEVER claimed that the whatzit in the photo was PROOF of anything, much less an extinct Martian civilization! I merely questioned what it was. 2) I can only tell you the facts. The picture was there, it was gone for a while, it came back...with a grainy texture in the background that was not previously there. Why this happened I don't know. 3) The object in the picture is faint enough that it is possible that they could have missed it initially. Desiree Holloway "He who doesn't know, never asked."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Jason DeGraf <gilgamesh@cyberconnect.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:11:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:01:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:41:02 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:15:56 -0400 >>From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>> This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also >>> the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" >>> Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears >>> that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland >>> and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, >>> just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. You should not quite lump in Delittoso with Hoagland and et al. Check Hoagland's site where he shows stills of the Phoenix Conference, you will not see one of Jim, Bill Hamilton or Michael Tanner, all of whom are local investigators in Phoenix, yet were given very little time to state any of the 'facts' about March 13th. I wonder why Hoagland had anyone from Phoenix on the Panel, he never consulted with one witness. Also,you seem to be jumping to the conclusion of what a Captain in the National Guard is saying. Hmmm, you most likely believe what the Air Force recently just said about the Roswell Dummies. Comspiracy thinking??, no, just the same run around. Now people have to contact a guard unit out east in order to get more info on the event in question. >Kal Korff has NO room to raise questions about Jim Dilettoso >authenticating _anything_ when HE CANNOT follow through >on his OWN statements. >Either stand and deliver Kal, or get the hell out of here and stay >out and be forever known as a worthless debunker who refuses to >substantiate his rhetoric with FACTS. Typical day in the field, nobody has any crediblity in this game, deal with the folks long enough, and you can only come to that conclusion. But I just love how the debunkers jump on any little tidbit and place themselves in some higher watchdog esteem. Yet fail everytime with their own standards of research. Kal Korff and Hoagaland merely jump on the bandwagon to get their face noticed in the crowd. Jason DeGraf http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 27 John Velez doing '#ufo' From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:04:00 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 13:03:06 -0400 Subject: John Velez doing '#ufo' Hi All, Just to let everyone know John Velez will be attending our ufo meet as a guest speaker on Saturday 2nd August. Where you will be able to ask him any questions you may have. The meet will be moderated, which means that the channel will be +M and that you will have to message one of the op's to let them know you have a question and then when it is your turn you will be given a +V, which will enable you to type in and ask your question. The meet will start at the usual time of 11pm UK time. Here are a list of servers you can use to join us on #ufo: /server UFO.UltraNET.Org (Connects you to a random UltraNET server) /server London.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org (Best for people in UK) /server Johnson-City.TN.US.UltraNet.Org (Best for people in USA) /server Hardanger.NO.EU.UltraNET.Org (Best for people in Europe) If you do not have any IRC software you can still attend the meet via the WWW, as long as your web browser is Java enabled. Just goto one of the following URL's and you will be able to join #ufo and enjoy the meet in real time. http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html Crow & Raine........ http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/3665/ ufo@aliens.ml.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:03:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:09:10 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >"Concerning Marcel,...he wasn't a rated (flying or air-crew) >officer, and...this limited his prospects in those days. (The >fact he wasn't rated is more than a bit interesting, as in >12/78, he claimed to have ~8000 hours of flight time, both as a >civilian pilot and in the military.) >The interview in question, with reporter Bob Pratt, was in >December 1979 (not '78), on December 8, to be exact. Marcel >said he had 3000 hours as a pilot, plus an additional 5000 >hours "flying time," for a total of 8000 hours. ..., KARL >deBUNKER Interesting. I defy Mr. deBUNKER to find where Marcel claimed to have 8000 hours flying time as a PILOT. Kurt Peters, I mean Mr. deBUNKER, reprinted the Bob Pratt interview in his monograph "Roswell in Perspective," but added his own comments or words in brackets to Marcel's statements. So the interview went as follows: Pratt: What do you think this thing was? Marcel: Well, as far as I know, or can surmise, it -- I was pretty well acquainted with most of the things that were in the air at the time, not only from my own military aircraft but also in a lot of foreign countries, and I still believe it was nothing that came from earth.... Pratt: You had three thousand hours as a pilot -- Marcel: Right, [and] eight thousand hours [total] flying time. So what Marcel REALLY said [sans brackets inserted by Archie deBUNKER] was: "Right, eight thousand hours flying time. I don't see Marcel claiming to be a pilot here. The assertion came from Pratt. Marcel may simply have been correcting Pratt, saying he had 8000, not 3000 hours, flying time, not necessarily as a pilot. Or he may have been re-emphasizing that he was very experienced with being in the air. He did do a lot of aerial cartography work before the war and flew extensively while in the service. For example, just flying to and from the South Pacific back in those days could take a 100 hours. And he did that twice -- during WWII and during Operation Crossroads. He also flew 10 months on bombing missions, for which he said he racked up 468 hours. And of course, he had to fly around theaters of operation during the war. His service record lists him in 12 different battle campaigns, and the Pacific is a big place. He might have done a lot of aerial surveillance, which was his main field of expertise. If Marcel had flown 8 hours a week from 1931 through 1950, starting with his aerial cartograpy work before the war, he would have racked up 8000 hours flight time by the time he left the service. Another mention Marcel had of his flight experience came earlier in the interview: I had flying experience before going in service -- started flying in 1928 -- being in [the] air was not foreign to me. Did lot of flying, combat flying, [in] B-24s." Here he said he had "flying experience," nothing more. And we DO know he did combat flying in B-24's. That's in his two recorded air medals, which say that the missions were against enemy shipping and airfields. Here's the only other mention of his prewar flight experience that I can find in the interview: Pratt: Was the flying you did before the war part of your work? Marcel: Private pilot. Pratt: What work did you do before the war? Marcel: I was a cartographer, map maker. Worked for U.S. Engineers and Shell Oil Company. I was working for Shell Oil Company as a photographer when the war began. All my map making for the Engineers and Shell Oil Company was derived from aerial photographs. So except for the one terse and ambiguous statement "private pilot," we have no representations from Marcel about what sort of pilot he claimed to be. Apparently in private he said he flew in the "right seat" or as a "bootleg" copilot during his aerial cartography. But in the public record, there doesn't seem to be anything. Finally, Marcel NEVER claimed to be an Air Force rated pilot. His only mention of piloting while in the Air Force came in the following brief comment in the Pratt interview: "I had a total of 468 hours of combat time, was intelligence officer for bomb wing, flew as a pilot, waist gunner and bombardier at different times." That was it. Immediately after clearly saying he WAS the intelligence officer, he said he flew AS a pilot, waist gunner, and bombardier at times on the bombing missions, not that he WAS a pilot, etc. As an extra crew member, he might easily have been pressed into these positions during combat if the regular person was incapacitated, killed, or in need of relief for some other reason. The piloting claim could have been Marcel flying unofficially as a nonrated copilot, something that Kevin Randle, e.g., says happened all the time in his own experience as a combat helicopter pilot in Viet Nam. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:04:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > Vince, you seem to be under the mistaken assumption the flying > disk press announcement was intended as a cover for Project Mogul. > I'm not aware of any such suggestion ever being made by the Air > Force or anyone else. (On the other hand, the balloon-launch > demonstration conducted at Alamogordo AAF the next day, > certainly was.) The only part of the Alamogordo launch the next day which was a clear cover story for Mogul was the statement given to the local press that the balloon launches with radar targets where for training personnel in radar tracking. But the launch had at least two other very definite purposes: 1. It was used as an explanation for what Brazel found. They even used the same discovery date mentioned by Brazel in his interview the previous evening -- June 14, claiming they launched a balloon the same day. This was a blatant lie, since the last Mogul flight in June was on June 7, and the Mogul team then left for the East Coast. So the lie was obviously designed to mesh with the statement Brazel gave to the press. But Mr. DeBunker doesn't see another cover story at work here. 2. It was used as an explanation for flying saucer reports. In fact, the headline in the "Alamogordo News" was "Fantasy of 'Flying Disc' Is Explained Here. What Kurt Peters -- er Karl Pflock -- doesnt' say, or may not know, is that this only one of a number of balloon/radar target launches staged by the military the same day or the next day, and used as an explanation for all the flying disc reports. For example, IDENTICAL radar targets are shown being launched in Kansas City on July 9 (St. Louis "Post-Dispatch, July 10) and in Ohio on July 9 or 10 (Columbus Ohio "Citizen, July 11). The "Post-Dispatch" photo was captioned "Cause of Confusion in Air?" and read: "Army civilian employee loosing an eight-foot balloon with an attached foil-covered target at Kansas City, Kan. Mounted on the truck is a radar cone to plot the course of the target, used to determine direction and velocity of winds at high altitudes. Objects in different parts of America, first believed to be "flying saucers," have been identified as weather balloons." The "Citizen" photos read: "Flying Saucer Twin is Weather Device" "Flying Saucers? -- This has been mistaken for a saucer at least three times the past week. The balloon kite affair being released by Meteorologist Marvin Rogers of the Army's All-Weather Flying Center at Wilmington, Ohio, is known as a Rawin target. The kite, suspended from the hydrogen-filled balloons, is covered with aluminum foil (for radar tracking) and conceivably could look like a fiery saucer in the sunlight. " 'Disc' Going Up -- The Rawin target looks like this as it leaves the ground. Not much resemblence to a flying saucer, is there? However, the Navy sent one up experimentally over Atlanta, Ga., the other day and Atlanta newspapers were swamped with saucer reports. Weather stations in all sections send them up every day." The Atlanta launches (using a different type radar target) were by the Navy, and reported in the Atlanta "Constitution" on July 10 and July 11 (one debunking apparently wasn't deemed sufficient). The headline of the July 10 story read: " 'Sailing Saucer' Secret Solved? -- The Answer Here." The story read: "A 'flying saucer,' silvery in the sun, sailed over Stone Mountain Wednesday. ...It was, officers at the Naval Air Station believe, a genuine 'flying saucer' -- the answer to the recent perplexing puzzle plaguing the country's collective brains." "Lt. Comdr Thomas H. Rentz, of the Naval Air Station, said the mysterious sailing discs that have been baffling the nation are without doubt "ray winds," or tinfoil screens borne aloft by balloons...." The following day, the Constitution carried the following story: "Navy Plane in Chase of 'Saucer' -- 'Raywin' Again" "A 'flying saucer' sailed through Georgia skies again on Thursday. This time a Navy plane was chasing it... To record the picture of 'chinaware' in the sky for posterity, the Naval Air Station sent a plane up 8000 feet to photograph the phenomenon.... The 'raywin' released Thrusday was the second 'saucer' demonstrated by Lt. Zelle Moore, aerology officer at the Air Station. He launched the first on Wednesday." As the newspapers reported on July 9 & 10, the Army and Navy had indeed begun "a concentrated campaign to stop the rumors." That seems to have been the primary purpose of the concurrent Alamogordo launch as well. Mr. DeBunker can certainly appreciate what they were doing. > It seems clear to me the people at the 509th > honestly believed they had a "flying disk" on their > hands--WHATEVER THAT TERM MAY HAVE MEANT TO THEM BACK THEN, and > it all but certainly DIDN'T mean "spaceship from outer space." Both Marcel and Blanchard definitely felt the crash material was anomalous in nature, not commonplace tinfoil and balsa wood, and not from any balloon. Marcel clearly thought it meant "spaceship from outer space," according to Marcel Jr., when he brought the fragments back home to his house and woke up his family. Blanchard privately told several people that he had never seen material like what his men brought back in his life. Ann Blanchard says he stated it definitely WASN'T from a balloon, and that he thought it might be Russian at first because of the strange inscriptions on some of the pieces. > This accounts for whatever added security may have been > initiated in connection with the non-event, at least up to the > point where Irving Newton identified the debris for what it was > at Fort Worth. Just more nonsense. Contemporary news stories had Gen. Ramey describing a weather balloon and radar reflector well BEFORE Newton ever took a look at it. For example: 1. San Francisco "Examiner" "First to reach him [Ramey], The Examiner got a complete description of the 'disc' from him, together with his expressed suspicion that it was just part of a weather balloon. His description tallied with that of radar reflectors sent up with weather balloons every day at Oakland. (As a result, The Examiner was able to give a prosaic name to the Army's saucer long before the Army itself corrected the boner of its public relations officer at Roswell.)" 2. New York "P.M." " 'Higher headquarters' proved to be Brig. Gen. Roger B. Ramey, Air Force commander at Fort Worth, Tex., who had the Roswell 'saucer' last night and was preparing to ship it to the laboratory at Dayton, Ohio, because still higher authorities had so ordered." "Ramey said he couldn't let anybody look at the thing or photograph it because Washington had clamped a 'security lid' on all but the sketchiest details." " 'The object,' he said, 'is in my office right now and as far as I can see there is nothing to get excited about. It looks to me like the remnant of a weather balloon and a radar reflector.'" Please read that again very carefully. Ramey said he hadn't allowed anybody to see or photograph it yet, and was CLEARLY saying it was a weather balloon and radar reflector. This was obviously BEFORE Newton had seen it or J. Bond Johnson had photographed it. Interestingly, Ramey had absolutely no trouble identifying it, but everybody at Roswell was completely flamboozled by it. 3. Washington "Post" " ... Under the personal direction of Lieut. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, acting AAF chief, who dropped into the Washington AAP public information headquarters in the midst of the excitement, they burned up the wires to Texas and New Mexico...." "They got from Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey, Eighth Air Force Commander, a description of the object. It was 'of very flimsy construction -- almost like a box-kite', made of wood and with a cover 'like tinfoil....' " "Ramey said he hadn't actually seen it himself as yet. He went to take a look, and called back that it was about 25 feet in diameter. He said he was shipping it on to Wright Field, Ohio, but would have one of the meteorological officers look at it first..." Once again, Ramey states that Newton hadn't seen it yet. And please note, for the discussion below, that it was RAMEY who first gave the description of the object being 25 feet in diameter. And finally... 4. New York "Times" "Within an hour after Lt. Haught [sic] had given new impeteus to the 'flying saucer' derby, his boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey, had a somewhat different version of 'the flying disc.' " "He said that while it was true it had been found on a ranch, no one had see it in the air; it was 'of flimsy construction,' apparently made 'of some sort of tin foil.' Subsequently, it was reported being flown to a research laboratory at Wright Field, Ohio." In summary, Ramey was clearly putting out the weather balloon story within an hour of the press release hitting the wires. He was even explicitly saying it was a weather balloon and radar reflector. He said no photographs had been taken yet and he would later send for a weather officer (Newton) to identify it. He was the source of the original statement that the object was 25 feet across. What's doubly strange about all this, is that Marcel recalled first being at Roswell when the press release hit the wires. Like everybody else, he was inundated with phone calls. A reporter even showed up at his house. Marcel pretty clearly left for Fort Worth after the press release. With plane prep time and flight time to Fort Worth, it would have taken him at least two hours to get there. Yet Ramey was clearly saying he had the weather balloon in his office within an hour, well before Marcel got there, and was giving descriptions of it to the press. Ramey also said it hadn't been photographed or seen by anybody else, again suggesting that Marcel had not yet arrived. We know that the photos were eventually taken very soon after Marcel arrived in Ramey's office. > Even then it seems clear from the FBI (Dallas SAC) > telex the description the 8th Air Force intelligence office gave > to Wright Field of the "object" was garbled. They described a > three-dimensional object in two-dimensional terms (hence the > "twenty-five feet in diameter"). More nonsense. Ramey told the Washington press corp (see Washington "Post" story) that it was 25 feet in diameter, and this was AFTER he supposedly had just gone to take a look at it. Was the object "three- dimensional" in his office? > Since Wright Field knew radar > targets were not 25 feet in diameter, the description did not > seem to conform to that of a radar target, hence the confusion, Boy, what a spinmeister! First of all the telegram reads, "The disc is hexagonal in shape and was suspended from a ballon by cable, which balloon was approximately 25 feet in diameter." Now where does it say that the radar target was 25 feet in diameter? Does Karl Kurt Peters deBunker Pflock have another FBI telegram that none of us are aware of, or is this one of many examples of poor DeBunker reading comprehension? Second, there was NOTHING in the wreckage displayed in Ramey's office that remotely suggested anything 25 feet in diameter. Yet Ramey reported this to the Washington press after he said he had supposedly just seen it. Since Marcel wasn't even there yet with the debris, it seems far more likely that Ramey simply made something up to tell the press in Washington, and this later got passed on to the FBI, either by Ramey or by Major Kirton, one of Ramey's intelligence officers, who was mentioned in the telegram. Further, the exact wording of the telegram says "the object found resembles *A* high altitude weather balloon with *A* radar reflector [note singular in both cases], but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not borne out this belief." Once again, was there anything in the Fort Worth photos that shows anything but a singular weather balloon and the remains of a singular radar target, the exact same sort of radar target being shown launched elsewhere the following day, and also shown in newspapers crashing all over the country, such as in Circleville, Ohio? In fact, the Circleville radar target probably came from the Wilmington, Ohio weather station, less than 30 miles from Wright Field and about 40 miles west of Circleville. They were the AAF weather station that staged the weather balloon/radar target launch the next day, using an identical Rawin target as that used on Mogul. > and the need to forward the debris to Wright Field, where it was > identified by Colonel Marcellus Duffy (the just-previous military > project officer for Mogul, who, at the time of the incident, was > assigned to the Wright Field division with shared oversight > responsibility for the project). So what exactly was so distinguishing about the Fort Worth wreckage that a telephonic conversation would convince Wright Field that this wasn't just an ordinary weather balloon and radar target like what was launched nearby at Wilmington? Why would A rubber weather balloon and the remains of A singular radar target have to be flown up to Wright Field for further identification in the first place? And why would Duffy be asked to identify it instead of a qualified weather officer? Remember, according to Col. Trakowski's little uncorroborated 2nd-hand anecdote, they even rousted the poor man out of bed in the middle of the night to make the identification. What exactly distinguished this rubber weather balloon and radar target from an ordinary one, such that the sleepy Duffy was clearly able to identify it as absolutely coming from Mogul? Inquiring minds want to know. > As for why the incident had no ill effects on Blanchard's and > Marcel's carreers, as has been pointed out repeatedly in the past > (including by Yrs Trly), Blanchard was General Curtis LeMay's > fair-haired boy. I know from discussions with several senior > retired officers who knew both men and who worked with/for > Blanchard or for whom he worked, LeMay bailed Blanchard out of > difficulties more than once. All say Blanchard was a fine leader, > excellent pilot, etc., but was prone to shoot from the hip, "push > the envelope"--as, it will be remembered by old fuds like me, was > his mentor, LeMay. Kevin Randle and others contend "hip shooters" > don't become generals. Not so. I sure worked with more than a > couple such in the Pentagon, and history certainly shows otherwise: > LeMay (chief of staff, USAF; chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff), > Patton, Chesty Puller, Montgomery, and on and on--and, of course, > "Butch" Blanchard. OK, so maybe that's a plausible explanation for Blanchard's ass being covered after he issued the press release. But who exactly was protecting Marcel? Remember? He supposedly led Blanchard astray to begin with, being incapable of recognizing what was obviously very ordinary materials. This supposedly led to the embarrassing press release, which even disrupted the Pentagon and the busy schedule of Gen. Vandenberg, who had to personally take care of it. And if you believe the current tales of Irving Newton, Marcel also made a complete fool of himself in Fort Worth, allegedly talking about alien writing and indestructible foil in front of Ramey and the reporters present. Marcel even supposedly chased Newton all around Ramey's office trying to get him to change his mind. (Strangely the actual press reports describe nothing remotely like what Newton is claiming today. They had Marcel reciting a very mundane story, and nothing at all about Marcel and Newton discussing things together.) So what have we here? A head intelligence officer who allegedly blows an extremely simple identification, embarrasses his superiors, disrupts the military routine, and causes a scene in Fort Worth in front of Ramey. That's the basic debunking line. Yet Marcel stays on as head of Roswell intelligence for another year, Blanchard writes two glowing reviews of Marcel afterwards, and even Ramey writes a year later that Marcel's services were "outstanding" and that he thought Marcel would become a future command officer. Further, the bungling, indiscrete intelligence officer who couldn't ID tinfoil gets transferred to the highly sensitive Special Weapons Program, is put in charge of a staff evaluating the latest in Soviet nuclear capabilities, and prepares special briefings and reports for the higher brass. Now a lot of us find this very strange. How could a man who supposedly bungled so badly receive great reviews afterwards from superior officers who were directly involved and then be promoted to higher intelligence work? >It should also be pointed out that NOBODY who was shown the debris >at Roswell could identify it. Yes, that's also very strange, isn't it? This was an elite base, yet everybody who saw the debris seems to have been a drooling idiot or led a very sheltered life. None, apparently, had ever seen tin foil, balsa wood, rubber, or Scotch tape in their life. You would think that some of the regular Roswell fly boys, like Blanchard, would have at least flown a balsa kite or a model airplane when they were kids. Even Deputy Base Commander Lt.-Col. Jennings seems to have been confused. According to Robert Porter, Jennings personally piloted Marcel's plane to Fort Worth after Blanchard allegedly went on leave. The guys cleared to fly A-bombs apparently weren't trustworthy enough to ferry this cargo of balsa wood and tinfoil. This must have been the strangest, most secret tinfoil and balsa wood radar target ever! >(If only they had thought to show it to their weather officer.) Must have slipped Marcel's mind. He had one right there in his office. Of course, only a weather officer could possibly ID tin foil and balsa wood. Everybody else was incapable. > Ultimately, Blanchard was responsible, We actually agree on something. Clearly Blanchard was responsible for the press release and ordering Marcel to Fort Worth. > and nobody would have touched him, or if they tried, > LeMay would have stepped in, as in fact he may have in this case. > Besides, although it was embarrassing for the AAF, there is no > reason to believe the hubbub resulted from anything but an honest > mistake on everybody's part (and a bit of "gung ho!" on > Blanchard's). I'll bet 99% of the officers in the Pentagon at the > time wouldn't have been able to identify a radar target. Yet strangely, Gen. Ramey was telling the press that it was a radar target BEFORE it was supposedly first identified by Newton. Ramey must have been among the 1% apparently, with everybody at Roswell in the other 99%, according to the logic of Karl D. Bunker. > Furthermore, with regard to the "blistering rebuke" from higher > headquarters that Walter Haut says never took place (see Berlitz > and Moore), I'll bet it did, and I'll bet it was done by phone > directly to Blanchard, perhaps with Haut in the room and possibly > listening in. Pure Pflockian speculation. The newspapers said a blistering rebuke was issued to the officers at Roswell, but only Haut was named. It's not clear to this day whether there was such a rebuke, or the press was simply told that there had been. Haut says he surely would have remembered if he had been personally rebuked. And there is nothing remotely resembling a reprimand or anything else in Marcel's service record. > If Blanchard was any kind of officer at all (and he > very definitely was), he would have taken the heat for his men. I actually consider this argument to be plausible. > In fact, since he was the commanding officer at Roswell, he had > ultimate responsibility and really had no choice but to take the > heat for his men. I doubt that he would have even told them about > such a call. But it wouldn't have stopped there. Marcel had already flown to Fort Worth to meet with Ramey. Remember? And Marcel still thought he had something very special. Not only did he tell Ramey this, but if you believe Irving Newton, Ramey deliberately humiliated Marcel in front of the local press. Then to make matters worse, Marcel started discussing alien writing in front of the press and chased Newton all around Ramey's office. This certainly would have been a violation of the orders that Ramey had given to not talk about it. And both Gen. Dubose and Marcel said that Ramey gave such orders. But Marcel had no negatives in his record, and was praised by both Ramey and Blanchard afterwards. Dubose, who knew very well what happened in Ramey's office, cosigned one of Blanchard's evaluations, and had nothing negative at all to say about Marcel. So allegedly Marcel caused a scene in Fort Worth, but nothing was noted about it either privately in Marcel's military evaluations, or publicly in the contemporary newspapers. In reality, Haut was made the almost universal public scapegoat for the press release, with a few newspaper mentioning Blanchard. None at all mentioned Marcel. However, if I were Gen. Ramey, I would have had serious doubts about the head intelligence officer at my nuclear bomber base after all this. I wouldn't be praising him a year later. And if I were Blanchard, I wouldn't be writing that Marcel was "highly dependable," "cool under all circumstances," and highly recommending him for higher intelligence work. (To be continued) David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: BWW Media Alert 970725 Supp 2 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:09:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:06:02 -0400 Subject: Re: BWW Media Alert 970725 Supp 2 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html BufoCalvin's Home Page TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or recirculate this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided proper attribution is given. It is recommended that you do not forward it to strangers without first obtaining their permission. If forwarding, please make it clear that it has come from you.) Whoops! I accidentally left out the broadcast tonight, Sunday, at 7:00 PM on Fox of ALIEN AUTOPSY: FACT OR FICTION. This is an updated version of the original (August 1995) broadcast, and supposedly includes a scene of the purported alien's clothes being removed. Also, this is the line-up for SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO (<A HREF="http://www.si ghtings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO Home Page</A> ) this week (Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific ((times given here are generally Pacific)),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific): Sunday Dr. Joseph Slate: Enhancing Psychic Empowerment (I think this is the author also known as Joe H. Slate. One of his books is <A HREF="http://www.a mazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1567186351/bufosweirdworldA/">Psychic Empowerment : A 7-Day Plan for Self-Development by Joe H. Slate</A> Bruce Weisman: Psychics and Psychotics In Society Monday Dr. Richard Boylan, PhD: Escalating UFO/ET Revelations (author of <A H REF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0926524267/bufosweirdworldA/">Clos e Extraterrestrial Encounters : Positive Experiences With Mysterious</A> , among others) Tuesday Dr. Jim Dreaver: Author: The Ultimate Cure Nicholas Mann: Author: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=156718 460X/bufosweirdworldA/">The Dark God : A Personal Journey Through the Underwor ld</A> Wednesday Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update (author of <A HREF="http:// www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963010409/bufosweirdworldA/">Ufos and the Ali en Presence : Six Viewpoints</A> ) Steven Jacobson: Mind Control In the Mass Media (author of the hard-to-find title <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0911485007/bufosweirdwo rldA/">Mind Control in the U. S.</A> ) Thursday Joyce Murphy: LIVE FROM ENGLAND: Crop Circle Report Friday Dr. Richard Boylan, PhD: Analysis Of Fox UFO Special Dr. Judith Orloff, MD: Author: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISB N=0446673358/bufosweirdworldA/">Second Sight</A> (Psychic Gifts) This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" _______________ For more books on these topics or by these authors, go to <A HREF="http://mem bers.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</A> ____________ You can stop r eceiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:06:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon In which the Pflockian DeBunking finger having writ moves on: > However... > In a 7/90 video-taped interview with Haut conducted by Fred > Whiting for the Fund for UFO Reseach, Whiting asked Haut if he > could remember Blanchard ever mentioning the "flying saucer" matter > after the official weather balloon line was established. Haut > replied that he did, at a staff meeting a week or two later. He > recalled Blanchard opening the meeting with a comment something > like this: "Well, we sure shot ourselves in the foot with that > balloon fiasco. It was just something from a project at > Alamogordo, and some of the guys were here on our base later, too. > Anyway, it's done and over with." Yet Blanchard later told his wives that it definitely wasn't a balloon. He later told Roswell newspaper editor Art McQuiddy that he had never seen material like it before in his life (tin foil? balsa wood?) And Haut maintains to this day that he believes Blanchard was telling the truth in the original press release -- they had recovered a real flying saucer, not a tinfoil radar target. Blanchard may very easily have been ordered to recite the balloons as a cover story to his staff. This had already begun on July 9 with the Alamogordo launch, complete with phony date for the balloon that allegedly crashed at Brazel's place. As to the current official story that Roswell had no prior notion of the Mogul flights, I would like to call attention to Mogul balloons #5 and #11A. Flight #5 passed directly over Roswell base on June 5, the day after the alleged Brazel crash object was launched. The balloon was being chased by a B-17, which certainly would have been picked up on radar at Roswell. This would have been a clear breach of base air space and security if the plane and balloon remained unidentified. Further, the balloon was in a descending mode, perhaps only 25,000 to 30,000 feet above the pass as it passed over, thus posing a potential navigation hazard to Roswell air traffic. In fact, by prior agreement with the civilian CAA, who knew of these flights (but allegedly not Roswell base), Mogul was definitely supposed to notify Roswell of the balloons in a situation like this. It was noted, e.g., in the Mogul Technical Report No. 1, April 1, 1948 that "Notices to airmen are to be issued if the balloon is descending within designated regions of dense air traffic." I think this all suggest that at least some people at Roswell base were very aware of Flight #5. This probably includes people like the radar operators, the control tower operators, and perhaps some aircraft spotters. A report likely would have been written about the incident, and perhaps ended up the desks of people like Blanchard and Marcel. Being the head intelligence officer, Marcel did have some responsibity for base security, after all. The balloon was in Roswell air space. Flight #11A crashed less than 20 miles due west of Roswell base on July 7, and only a few miles off of Highway 70 out of Roswell. It may very well be the balloon crash that AP reporter Jason Kellahin recalled seeing the next day near one of the main highways, along with military personnel recovering it. (Brazel's place wasn't anywhere near a main highway, and Kellahin wouldn't have had time to visit there between driving from Albuquerque and interviewing Brazel in Roswell later that evening.) The recovery would have been on the same day as Blanchard's press release, and again it seems likely that Roswell base would have been aware of Project Mogul in some form. > Haut says he and the other staff > officers took this to mean "no more talk about that, forget it." > So they did. Unfortunately, this particular exchange didn't make > it into the Fund's "Recollections of Roswell" tapes (nothing > sinister here; the significance of Haut's words couldn't have been > known at the time the editing was being done), but the entire, > uncut interview is on tape in the Fund's files. > Concerning Marcel, see the above re Blanchard taking the heat. But was Blanchard in Fort Worth to protect Marcel from Ramey? No, I didn't think so. Yet Ramey praised Marcel a year later (see below). And please explain for us why at least one report wasn't written up about the whole fiasco. I think Blanchard would have had some explaining to do afterwards, including why he issued the press release, how he came to the conclusion that tinfoil was a flying disc, and how his head intelligence officer could also make such a mistake. > Moreover, while he seems to have been a good officer, if a bit > excitable and prone to magnify problems (as per his fitness > reports) This is pretty serious DeBunker Distortion of what is actually in Marcel's record. Kal Korff makes the same nonsensical and unsupported claim in his book and in his Skeptical Inquirer article. What this all comes down to is a single statement in ONE of Blanchard's evaluations of Marcel on 6 May 1948, or ten months after Roswell (Korff completely misrepresents this as "just after" Roswell). Under personal comments Blanchard wrote: "A quiet, mature field grade officer. Exceptionally well qualified in his duty assignments. His only known weakness is to magnify problems he is confronted with. Superior moral qualities." DeBunkers like Korff and Pflock are honing in on the phrase "prone to magnify problems he is confronted with" while totally ignoring the rest of Blanchard's evaluation, or his followup evaluation in August, which totally contradict Pflock's statement that Marcel was "a bit excitable" or Korff's distortion that Marcel had a "tendency to exaggerate things." For example, under characteristics which BEST describe the officer, Blanchard checked "Cool under all circumstances." In August Blanchard checked "Loses his head, gets excited" as LEAST characterizing him. Under "Plan all aspects of a military situation, using judgment, initiative, and coolness" Blanchard gave him 4 out of 5, or an "excellent" mark. Under "Degree to which he is able to meet situations without emotional upset" Blanchard gave him his lowest mark of 7 out of 10, or low excellence. In August, however, he gave him his usual 8 mark, or high excellence. Under "Degree to which he is able to discriminate & evaluate to arrive at logical conclusions" Marcel received a 9, or superior marking. In another Efficiency Report dated 8 Jan 47 Blanchard gave Marcel a mark of 5 out of 7, or "high excellence" in the category "Stability Under Pressure" Doesn't sound very "excitable" to me. Perhaps Mr. DeBunker can enlighten us as to where Blanchard was saying Marcel was "excitable?" To people with normal (not DeBunker) reading comprehension, however, Blanchard was saying EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. So what did Blanchard probably mean in the one statement? If we look at other efficiency reports, we see it repeatedly noted that Marcel was an extremely hard worker and a bit of a perfectionist. Overall, his various evaluators thought these were positive traits, but there was at least one exception. Roswell Deptuty Base Commander Payne Jennings wrote on 30 June 47: "A loyal extremely diligent officer, rather lacking in imagination and initiative. He is definitely a 'Plugger' and makes harder work of all his assignments than is necessary." Nonetheless, Jennings gave him remarkably similar marks as Blanchard with an overall rating of high excellence. And, oh yes, under "Stability Under Pressure," he gave Marcel a mark of 5 out of 7 (high excellence), just like Blanchard. Blanchard's remark that Marcel had a tendency to magnify problems he was confronted with, sounds like just another way of saying the same thing as Jennings, that Marcel made his work harder than was necessary. There is nothing here that shows that Blanchard's remark was in any related to the earlier events at Roswell. > he wasn't a rated (flying or air-crew) officer, And where did Marcel ever claim that he was? All he said was that he WAS the intelligence officer for the bomb wing and that on his combat bombing missions he sometimes acted AS a pilot, bombadier, or gunner, not the he WAS any of these. This is hardly a fantastic claim, since military personnel often take someone else's position if they are incapacitated, killed, or in need of relief, even when they aren't rated for the job. Marcel NEVER claimed to be anything other than an intelligence officer while in the service. > and as was noted in his fitness reports, this limited his prospects in > those days. First of all, try fitness report, not reports, Mr. DeBunker. Pflock is just repeating Robert Todd's nonsense, where Todd misrepresents comments written by Gen. Ramey about Marcel a year after the Roswell events. Yes, this is the same Gen. Ramey of Fort Worth weather balloon infamy. Now here are Ramey's REAL remarks about Marcel, not the DeBunking spin that Pflock and Todd are putting on it. Ramey was giving Marcel high praise, something the DeBunkers, for some reason, prefer not to mention. "There is no regular officer in field or company grade available, within this command, to assign the position now occupied by this officer [head of intelligence at Roswell base]. The services of this officer are OUTSTANDING [emphasis mine] and it is to the best interest of this command that he remain on active duty." Ramey's remarks were written as Marcel was being transferred to Washington for higher intelligence work. He may have been registering a mild protest, by noting he had nobody to replace him. After some routine factual statments about Marcel's career, Ramey then wrote at the very end: "Since this officer is not a rated pilot his assumption of the position of Commanding General is not a consideration. However, his past performance and progress have been of such a nature and calibre to justify presumption that, within the next ten years, this officer could assume a position of responsibility commensurate with that of an Air Force Commander." All Ramey was saying was that Marcel wasn't a regular Air Force fly-boy, so he wasn't going to make General. But in spite of that, Ramey thought he would become a command officer based on the "outstanding" calibre of his past performance. That certainly doesn't sound like the description of somebody who allegedly screwed up a tinfoil ID and chased Irving Newton around Ramey's office a year earlier, does it? And it wasn't exactly saying his "prospects were limited" either. >(The fact he wasn't rated is more than a bit > interesting, as in 12/78, he claimed to have ~8000 hours of flight > time, both as a civilian pilot and in the military.) If between 1931, when he started working as an aerial cartographer, and 1950, when he left the Air Force, Marcel had averaged 8 hours of flight time a week, he would have compiled his 8000 hours. That hardly seems fantastic at all, given his prewar job and the fact that he was in the Air Force, including flying all over the vast South Pacific during the War. There are businessmen who fly a lot more than that. And I don't see anything in Marcel's interviews where he claimed any specific flight time as a civilian pilot, or in what capacity he may have flown. All we have in his Robert Pratt interview is the terse and ambiguous statement "Private pilot" in response to Pratt's question if he flew as part of his job. I have dealt with this in more detail in a companion response to Pflock. > While he may > not have suffered officially from his role in the Roswell affair, No, not at all. The alleged "excitable" bungler got promoted to higher intelligence work, put in charge of a staff handling highly sensitive intelligence, and prepared briefings and wrote special reports for the higher brass. Doesn't sound like they considered him unreliable or "excitable" in the least. > at least one officer who worked for him in Washington ca. 1948-49 > recalls Marcel frequently was teased about it by his peers. Oh great! And now the anonymous officer. Who was this officer and in what capacity was he affiliated with Marcel? This sounds like another "Marcel chased me around Ramey's office" stories. In the documented, real world, Marcel's two efficiency reports during this period from a real peer with a real name gave him extremely high marks for the job he was doing with the Special Weapons Program. This is where we can also find his job description, which indicates Marcel was the primary briefing officer and wrote special reports for the higher brass on the latest intelligence. This was supporting evidence that Marcel may very well have written a report eventually destined for the White House on the first Soviet A-bomb blast. Robert Todd, naturally, omitted all mention of these efficiency reports while labeling Marcel a liar for having said he wrote such a report. > Marcel > was released from active duty in Sept. 1950, at the height of the > Korean War, on a hardship basis (to care for his aged mother) and > after about two-months in Walter Reed Army Hospital. While there's > nothing too odd about all this, it seems clear the USAF didn't > consider him indispensable. Maybe if I look for a few years I'll find a point hiding in there. Offhand, it sounds like another DeBunking cheap shot to me. > In any event, while all of this is interesting, the fact is, it's > essentially academic. The formerly classified record--created > decades before FOIA--proves no flying saucer crashed in New Mexico > or anywhere else in U.S. territory or jurisdiction at any time > before mid-1955. Records may not have surfaced which prove what > did "crash" at Roswell, but records most certainly have surfaced > to show what did NOT crash at Roswell. What did NOT crash at > Roswell was an alien spaceship. Twining's September 23, 1947, > proves this. Nonsense! Twining wouldn't admit to having a saucer in his basement in a memo classified at only the SECRET level and intended for wide distribution to the various government and military agencies named in the memo. The primary purpose of the memo was to get these agencies to take flying saucers seriously, and to help in the gathering of intelligence. As it was, Twining said that he and his command, including his engineering laboratories, considered the saucers to utterly real flying craft under intelligent control. The fact that he had to even include a denial of having any physical evidence is in itself interesting, and suggests that there may have been rumors circulating to the contrary. A little plausible deniability never hurts if you're trying to keep the lid on a stupendous secret. > The companion study prepared by AF Intel at HQ USAF > proves this. The minutes of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board > meeting of March 17-18, 1948, prove this. The early Nov. '48 > letter from AMC chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy > to AF chief of intel MG Charles Cabell proves this. Just another denial from somebody who may or may not have known if there was physical evidence. To quote from Jean van Gemert on Usenet: "McCoy at the time was chief of T-2 (located at _Patterson_ Field), which had an intelligence gathering function. Project Sign (which he mentions in his 1948 talk at the Pentagon) was also located there, and he was responsible for it. Now imagine if debris had been found. Would it have been shipped to T-2? Not likely! Instead, it probably would have been sent to T-3, Engineering Research and Development (at Wright Field) which wasn't McCoy's division at all. The bottom line is that McCoy could *easily* have been left in the dark because there was no need for him to know." I think that's a good argument. Compartmentalization of the big secret could easily have kept McCoy away from it, or even if he did know, he could have even been under orders to misdirect others without proper clearance. > So do a number > of other documents from the same time period and later prove this. > To any reasonable person, this is CONCLUSIVE proof of what the > Roswell incident did NOT involve. CASE CLOSED! Hardly conclusive in the least. The day after a spectacular green fireball incident on Jan 30, 1949, which exploded and broke up near Roswell, the FBI was briefed that the subject of flying saucers was classified Top Secret by Army and Air Force intelligence. On the same day were two Confidential Army Staff messages about the fireball incident. One of them read, "...all out investigation of possible crashed saucer, OK'd." Somebody obviously took the possibility of crashed flying saucers VERY seriously. That's rather strange if there was allegedly no evidence of any previous crashed saucers. But the important point is that the FBI was told the subject was Top Secret. Where are all those Top Secret documents that must exist? All I generally hear about are the Secret or lower classified ones, like the Twining memo and the ones where McCoy is quoted. That hardly constitutes "proof." Further, we know that the original Top Secret Project Sign Estimate, the one that preceded the above mentioned Top Secret companion study, came to the conclusion that flying saucers were extraterrestrial. There is even an anecdote in one of Kevin Randle's books of a colonel who worked on the Estimate, who told him they originally included physical evidence of metal recovered in New Mexico. Vandenberg ordered the paragraphs removed, then ordered the final report destroyed. Not surprisingly, the follow-up companion study proved to be a lot tamer and focused on possible terrestrial origins. I'm also waiting for even one AAF document that states that Roswell base was involved in the recovery of a Top Secret balloon. The GAO certainly couldn't find it. In the triplicate-mad military, nobody at Roswell, Fort Worth, Wright Field, or the Pentagon seems to have bothered writing one piece of paper related to the incident. That demands a PLAUSIBLE explanation. At least one report, if not many, should have been written. Where are they? > -- KARL deBUNKER Well, at least he got that part right. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:28:14 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:12:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:04:04 EDT >Right, NASA is so incompetent that they accidentally put up >a picture offering proof of an extinct Martian civilization >on their website, just long enough for a few people to >capture it, then they change it, and expect no one to notice. >I believe that. Please explain to us all what proof of an extinct Martian civilization was in this photo. Again, present "proof" and not simply your personal biases or opinion. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 30 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 19:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:23:31 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 30 --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Fwd: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 30 Date: 97-07-27 12:10:03 EDT From: Masinaigan To: updates@globalserve.net UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 30 July 27, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOLOGISTS AND REPORTERS HEAD FOR NOVA BRASILANDIA The reputed UFO crash near Nova Brasilandia on July 1 has drawn ufologists, reporters and TV news crews from all over Brazil. According to Ataide F.S. Neto, president of the Brazilian UFO study group AMPUP, "The residents of Nova Brasilandia affirmed that the unidentified flying object passed over (on July 1), ripping the skies over that county. According to the locals, the object was an enormous ball of fire that illuminated the region, leading them to suspect that the UFO crashed at some point in the rural area of the county." Nova Brasilandia is 260 kilometers (156 miles) northeast of Cuiaba, the state capital of Mato Grosso do Sul. The area is also 200 kilometers (120 miles) from the Chapada dos Guimaraes, a UFO hotspot during the 1986 flap. Neto said the crash "happened at around 8 p.m." on July 1, 1997. "A huge ball of fire passed over the houses and went toward the serras (mountains). After two to four seconds, they heard an earsplitting din, like an explosion." The sound was heard "in a radius of 160 kilometers (100 miles), and due to the impact, the land shaked. Soon after that, a gleam of light appeared, and it lasted for about one minute." Neto said AMPUP investigators believe that the object crashed in the Serra Azul, perhaps 100 kilometers (60 miles) from Nova Brasilandia. But news reports in Correio de Mato Grosso and on Sistema Brasileiro de Televisao (SBT--Brazil's biggest TV network--J.T.) claimed that the UFO crashed on Divino Fogoio's ranch 70 kilometers (42 miles) from Nova Brasilandia. A man named "Heleno" claimed to have gotten within "200 meters" (120 feet) of the impact crater. "He says that the stuff is the size of a van, the color is silvery, and that part of it is above the ground and the rest is buried." At the farm called Bela Vista, reporters from the newspaper Correio de Mato Grosso interviewed vaqueiro (cowboy) Gilberto Braga, age 26, on July 9, 1997. "Previously he (Braga) had affirmed he saw the object," Neto reported. "Now he denies it. However, in the filmed report (by Gazeta TV--J.T.), he appeared almost crying, wanting to say something more." One Nova Brasilandia resident was quoted as saying that the UFO crashed at Bela Vista farm and "Fogoio is there with the stuff. I saw Fogoio with a piece of the object." Another said, "What Joao told me is that the object is the size of a Volkswagen (Fusca model)." Sr. Calixto, a reporter for Correio de Mato Grosso went to the Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE) in Sao Jose do Campos to obtain satellite photos of the region. In this manner, he hopes to pinpoint the crash site. (Muito obrigado a Paulo Andrade, Pedro Cunha e Ataide F.S. Neto por eso caso.) (Editor's Comment: Interestingly, the alleged crash site is just north of the Serra do Roncador. Seventy-two years ago, in July 1925, Colonel Percy H. Fawcett, his son Jack Fawcett, and their partner, Raleigh Rimmell, disappeared in this region while hunting for the legendary underground cities of Matalir and Araracauga. For more weird news from Brazil, read on...) ICE METEORS BOMBARD SOUTHERN BRAZIL On Tuesday, July 22, 1997, Jurandir Zullo, a scientist at Campinas State University, revealed that Sao Paulo state had been struck twice in recent weeks by large blocks of ice weighing in excess of 50 kilograms. The first "ice meteor" crashed on July 11, smashing through the tiled roof of a bus factory in Campinas, 99 kilometers (63 miles) northwest of Sao Paulo city. Zullo reported, "People saw it just after it landed, and it was around 248 square inches in size. They then put it in the freezer, but it still melted a little. When we got there, it weighed 220 kilograms (110 pounds)." Four days later, on Tuesday, July 15, a second "ice meteor" struck a farm field 59 kilometers (37 miles) north of Campinas, creating a small impact crater. "The tower at the (Campinas) airport has said that there were no airplanes passing over when the ice blocks fell," Zullo reported. In April 1995, Chinese scientists recovered "chunks of meteoric ice" that plummeted to Earth on a farm in Zhiejang province. (Editor's Comment: Campinas, S.P. is the city where one of the Varginha aliens was autopsied on January 22, 1996.) UFOs SIGHTED IN NORTHERN KENTUCKY On Friday, July 18, 1997, at just about noontime, Sandra Brown and John Gardner were driving on Highway 35 through Sparta, Kentucky when they spotted a daylight disc in the sky. "You'd have to say it was a UFO," Brown told the Gallatin County News. "We pulled over on the side of the road and watched it for about five minutes." Ms. Brown described the UFO as "round, silver, had no lights and was a little bigger than a car." "It kind of just sat there," Brown said, "It hung in the sky in one place and then, in the blink of an eye, it disappeared...I know people will think we're crazy, but we really saw this." (See the Gallatin County News for July 23, 1997, page 1, "Couple Report Seeing UFO Flying Over Gallatin.") Sparta, Kentucky is at the intersection of Highways 35 and 467, about 40 miles (64 kilometers) southwest of Cincinnati, Ohio. The following day, Saturday, July 19, 1997, at 7:30 p.m., Mark S. was outdoors in his hometown of Alexandria, Kentucky (population 4,735) "and just happened to look up at the sky. I saw something moving across the sky and I thought it was a jet flying at high altitude. As I watched the object, I realized that I couldn't see any wings." "Then I noticed a second object moving in the same direction," he reported. "Not too far behind the first. I could not see any wings on the second object, either. Both of these objects were identical. They appeared to be flying very high, where you would normally see military jets flying. They resembled a missile, not very long and all white." "I could see something orange in color at the rear end of these objects. I couldn't tell if the orange piece was part of the object or flames coming from an engine. Both were traveling almost due north (towards the city of Cincinnati--J.T.), and from my perspective, they were about one foot apart. They were both moving pretty fast. I first noticed them as they were directly overhead, and it took almost one minute to move out of my line of sight. There were no visible vapor trails or any other evidence that they were there." (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for the Kentucky reports.) HOVERING ORBS SEEN IN SALIDA, COLORADO On Saturday, July 12, 1997, at 10 p.m., Alan, a cook at the Patio Restaurant, spotted "a white globe appearing as a bright star and then blowing up to about half the size of the full moon" over Salida, Colorado. Salida (population 4,870) has been a UFO hotspot for the past two years. The town is located on Colorado Highway 50 about 85 miles (136 kilometers) southwest of Denver. The white globe retreated to the south, passing over Methodist Mountain, 12 miles (19 kilometers) south of Salida. On Friday, July 18, 1997, at 12:30 a.m., Laray Chappell, age 16, was watching a Flight for Life helicopter south of Salida when she saw "a green globe south of town over Methodist Mountain. Viewed for a few seconds hovering, and then shoots straight south in a downward movement and disappears behind a ridge. As it took off at tremendous speed, she said there was a streak much like a shooting star." Ms. Chappell, the daughter of Salida ufologist Tim Edwards, described the UFO as "about half the size of the full moon, pure green and was a very strange sight." (Many thanks to Tim Edwards for these reports.) UFOs SPOTTED OVER NEW JERSEY AND LONG ISLAND On Sunday night, July 20, 1997, two engineers in Voorhees, New Jersey (population 20,179) observed a UFO for over 45 minutes. Bob Fulmer and Richard Miller spotted the UFO in the sky over Voorhees, a suburban community 15 miles (25 kilometers) southeast of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. "The craft was changing colors from white to green to red and back to white in the northern sky," reported George A. Filer of MUFON. "It moved back and forth at fairly slow speed, hover and then would slip off at high speed and then return...No structure could be observed. It finally flew away at high speed." On Saturday, July 12, 1997, at 11:45 p.m., MUFON investigator Andrew Casaveno "was in his backyard in Uniondale, Long Island, New York and very briefly witnessed a bright light roughly 3/4 the size of the moon moving sideways from southwest to northeast and then completely vanished. He could not distinguish any features of this object other than a slight oblong shape and extreme brightness." Uniondale (population 24,500) is located 10 miles (16 kilometers) east of John F. Kennedy International Airport in Queens, N.Y. (See Filer's Files #28, copyright 1997 by George A. Filer, for these stories.) STRANGE SIGHTING DEEPENS MISSING LEAR JET MYSTERY On December 24, 1996, at 10 a.m., a Lear jet preparing to land at the municipal airport in Lebanon, New Hampshire (population 11,134) was asked to "go around" and try again. Minutes later, the jet vanished from the tower's radar screen. Seven months of sophisticated air and ground search have failed to turn up any trace of the missing Lear jet and its pilots, Johan Schwartz, 31, of Westport, Connecticut and Patrick Hayes, 30, of Clinton, Connecticut. On Saturday, July 12, 1997, "Allison Gilliland of Grafton (New Hampshire), head of a search and rescue team, was a passenger in a Cessna looking for the jet...when she spotted 'something manmade, that was flat and white and large,' Gilliland said." "'It may be nothing, or it might be something positive.'" "Gilliland said the object she saw was about 4,500 feet up a slope north of Lincoln (N.H.)." "The terrain around the object is rough and will be difficult to get to on foot, she said. Gilliland said she and a volunteer pilot made a couple of passes over the site and figured a helicopter would be better suited to identifying the object." "Lee Schwartz, 74, the pilot said he was busy flying the plane and trying to avoid the mountain peaks. He said he did not seen what Gilliland saw and could not confirm what the object was." The "white, flat object" was sighted on the slope of Mount Lafayette, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) north of Lebanon airport. However, no further confirmation of sightings of Lear jet wreckage have been forthcoming. As of July 27, 1997, Schwartz, Hayes and their Lear jet remain missing. (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for July 14, 1997, "Search for Jet Resumes After Sighting.") MORE CROP CIRCLES FOUND IN THE NETHERLANDS On Tuesday, July 15, 1997, residents of Vlissingen, a town on the Westerschelde in the Netherlands, approximately 131 kilometers (82 miles) southwest of Amsterdam, reported five new crop circles. The circles were found in a corn field near Vlissingen. The largest circle had a diameter of 6 meters (20 feet) and was surrounded by four smaller crop circles. Thus far in 1997, the Netherlands has reported a total of 27 crop circles. (See the newspaper Brabants Dagblad for July 16, 1997. Many thanks to Jeroen Wierda of Picard UFO Research International for this news story.) MYSTERIOUS LIGHT FLASHES OCCUR IN FRANCE On Monday, July 21, 1997, at 3 p.m. and again at 5 p.m., mysterious flashes lit up the horizon in the town of Clamart, in the department of Haut de Seine. Town residents described them as "enormous blue-violet flashes in the sky." The first luminous glow lasted for three seconds. The flash at 5 p.m. lasted for approximately 8 seconds. (Merci beaucoup a Banque OVNI de France pour ces nouvelles.) BIGFOOT GOES WILD On Tuesday, July 15, 1997, Jackie Hutto, 14, of Neeses, South Carolina (S.C.) heard the family's dogs howling in their backyard pen. As he went to investigate, Jackie spied "a large, brown-yellow Bigfoot, 8 feet (2.5 meters) tall, with big 'block- shaped' stained teeth...that creature was clearly a male." He saw the creature "lifting the chain-link dog kennel out of the ground in which it was embedded." Seeing the boy, the Bigfoot dropped the kennel and dashed into the woods. Jackie told the Neeses, S.C. Times and Democrat newspaper that the Bigfoot "smelled pretty bad." His 16-year-old brother supported his story. But not everybody in Neeses believes that Bigfoot raided the Hutto place. "I think it's a bunch of baloney," Darlene Riley of Neeses told the Times and Democrat. "I have about 10 kids in the house who are scared to go out and play. My kids have not been out of the house all day long because they were scared when they saw this (news story)." Neeses is on South Carolina Highway 321 approximately 36 miles (57 kilometers) south of Columbia, the state capital. The area is covered with small creeks and rivers and swampy land bordering large farms. According to cryptozoologist Scott McNabb, who announced plans to visit the site, the area "is sparsely populated" and "is a haven for all sorts of wild game." (See the Neeses, S.C. Times and Democrat for July 18, 1997. Many thanks to Scott McNabb for the original news story.) OUT-OF-PLACE ALLIGATOR APPEARS IN RHODE ISLAND On Tuesday, July 22, 1997, at noontime, Delcia Warrell and her two children were walking to her car at their home at 140 Harrison Street, Pawtucket, Rhode Island "when they spotted a 20-inch alligator resting in the shade of the car." "They didn't pause to investigate." "'He's got sharp teeth,' said Leon Warrell III, age 7." "'It was under the car,' added his sister, D'Nelle Belle, aged 9, 'It ran out from under the car. We ran up on the porch. We were scared because it was snapping.'" The alligator holed up in a clump of bushes in front of 136 Harrison Street, as local residents telephoned the police. Animal Control officer John Holmes "quickly captured the alligator with a six-foot snare pole. The alligator, pale green with yellow eyes, snapped and writhed as Holmes lifted it. Then it hissed when Holmes rested it on the ground before placing it in a plastic pet carrier." "'It's definitely an alligator,' Holmes said, 'That's a first for me.'" "The alligator was turned over to zookeepers at Roger Williams Park in Providence on the advice of wildlife experts with the state Department of Environmental Management." (See the Pawtucket, R.I. Times for July 23, 1997, page 1, "Alligator Gives City Residents A Scary Thrill.") HORSE MUTILATIONS BAFFLE POLICE IN IOWA At least seven horses in eastern Iowa have been stripped of their tails during the past couple of months. The latest theft occurred this week in Solon, Iowa (population 969). Val Upmeir, who owns a stable where the tails of two horses were cut off last May, said, "I have no idea who would be mean enough to do this. They didn't cut the whole tail off. Whoever did it had a conscience. They left a fifth of what had been there." It takes almost two years for a horse's tail to grow back. Don Gaddis, whose horses were also sheared, said, "We're into the fly season. They need their tails to keep the flies away." Solon is Iowa Highway 965, about 175 miles (280 kilometers) east of Des Moines. (See the Pawtucket, R.I. Times for July 23, 1997, page 1.) BIZARRE FIBROUS MATERIAL FALLS ON CITY IN IDAHO Stories of a strange dark-colored fibrous material and seven unexplained local deaths have some residents of Caldwell, Idaho (population 17,699) jittery. On Saturday, July 19, 1997, one resident reported, "The news talked about strange stuff being dropped from the sky over Caldwell. It was all over houses, cars, equipment, shrubs, etc. They said it looked like feces, but that they were unable to confirm what it was. Isn't that strange?" The resident also claimed that seven people in Caldwell had died "of a strange disease that takes all their air out of your lungs and oxygen out of the blood. Channel 2 News out of Boise said that there were no common ties of any kind" that might explain the unusual respiratory malady. Caldwell is on Interstate Highway 84 in Idaho approximately 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Boise, the state capital. (Many thanks to T.W. for forwarding this story.) from the UFO Files... 1909: AIRSHIP FLIES OVER SCHOOL IN KELSO, N.Z. (This week we continue our look at the little-known airship flap in New Zealand of late July 1909. Many thanks to ufologist Murray Bott for these reports.) On July 19, 1909, three residents of Oamaru, a town of the coast of New Zealand's South Island approximately 100 miles (160 kilometers) north of Kaka Point, reported "a flickering light" moving about in the sky. Four days later, on July 23, 1909, "a small group of schoolchildren and some residents reported that an airship came down and bobbed around in the sky over the school for a few minutes." This incident took place in Kelso, S.I., New Zealand. A reporter for the Otago Daily Times went to Kelso, interviewed the witnesses, and submitted this report: "All those scholars who saw the ship were interrogated singly and independently and were asked to draw an impression of what they had seen. The result was six drawings, the degree of resemblance and unanimity of which was nothing short of dumbfounding to all sceptics. Special interrogation of the boys revealed the fact that none had drawn the diagram before not had they been interested in airships prior to witnessing this one. One of the boys in addition to the side view was able to draw it from beneath as the ship passed over his head. This showed two sails on each side. One boy drew a revolving propellor at the rear." (See the Otago Daily Times for July 31, 1909.) FUN UFO WEBSITES UFOs Online has been updated yet again. Anthony Chippendale keeps this site chock-full of the latest UFO news, plus many readable features. You can access this site at http://home.clara.net/chipp/ Don't miss the brand-new "Country Guide" at our parent site, UFOINFO. John Hayes has arranged it so that readers can access news stories from UFO ROUNDUP on a country-by-country basis. Check out this and many other fine features at this URL: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try our site at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ Talk about weird weeks! And the wierdness isn't over yet. Remember two weeks ago, July 13, when we mentioned that it was the anniversary of the 1793 assassination of the French revolutionist, Dr. Jean-Paul Marat? Well, you'll never guess what today is. Give up? July 27 is the birthday of Dr. Marat's assassin! Yes, it was on July 27, 1768 that Marie-Anne Charlotte Corday d'Arlmont, better known as Charlotte Corday, was born in Normandy. Isn't that bizarre? So if you're in the tub today, and you happen to see a lady in a black hat and a striped skirt toting a kitchen knife heading your way, grab that towel and run! Meanwhile, I'll let historians of the future figure out whether or not the fair Charlotte was Dr. Marat's mistress; Adam Weishaupt's mistress; or both. That's it for this week. Join us next Sunday for more saucer news from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the news item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:55:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:27:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:21:50 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:10:28 -0400 (EDT) > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Jim Dilettoso Loses Credibility: Phoenix Lights SOLVED! > >Dear List: > >This article speaks for itself...rember, Jim Dilettoso is also > >the same person who "authenticated" the infamous Eduard "Billy" > >Meier hoax UFO photographs. Like his Meier analysis, it appears > >that his Phoenix lights one (a cause celeb with Richard Hoagland > >and Art Bell) is badly in error as well. There were no UFOs, > >just military flares, as some of us suspected all along. > >Air Guard unit sheds > >light on Valley's UFOs > >Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic > >"I had one too many UFO calls," says Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz. > (snip) > >They flew eight A-10s and dropped a mess of high-intensity flares on > >their way back to Tucson, military officials said. Any explanation on how the Air Guard got permission to drop flares in civilian FAA controlled airspace over Phoenix without all of the pilots being busted to privates before being discharged from the Air Force for violating said airspace. Dropping flares there. Geez guys..the mind boggles. Maybe Guard Capt. Eileen Bienz thought she could slide that by a gullible public not to mention a few cocky UFO investigators who haven't yet realized the limitations on aircraft in controlled airspace whether they be military or civilian. The report is bogus. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:58 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:32:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:59:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists >The very small amount of unstable Ge (75) isotope found present is >certainly perplexing, but that might point to something presently unknown >to 20th-century chemistry... >Jim Deardorff Dear Jim: Did it ever occur to you that it might also point to terrestrial error -- either human or instrumental or both? There is at least one thing about the sample we can say with some degree of certainty: apparently Roswellium 47 has a half-life of at least 50 years, which should carry it (and any attached exotic isotopes) well into the next century.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:37:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:05:20 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists >Those who attended the July 4th presentation made by Paul Davids, Derrel >Sims, and Russ VernonClark are aware that many questions were left >unanswered. Dear Steven: Actually, _each and every_ question was left unanswered. As you know if you were there, _there was no press conference_ -- as advertized. Sims and party departed through the back door of the Pearson Auditorium, hopped into a waiting car, and sped away. Reportedly, Russell VernonClark was flown out of the Roswell the same day. Most of the media present to whom I talked considered this -- how do we put it politely? -- "curious" behavior for what had been widely billed as a 9:00 a.m. "press conference" at which "Scientific Proof...that an Extraterrestrial Craft was Recovered near Roswell, NM" would be presented. >From statements that have been made since the event, it is >clear that VernonClark was only making an appearance because >he was under >an agreement to do so. Well, that's some sort of behavior to be sure, but is it necessarily_scientific_ behavior? >In private correspondence, he has indicated hope >that a journal article on the "debris" should be completed within a year. >At that time he, and the other un-named scientists, will be more prepared >to defend their theories. In most minds that would indicate that the so-called "press conference" probably should have been put off until at least then as well. Ordinarily, you double-check and confirm your findings before going public with them. Here we seem to have gotten the press conference -- that wasn't a press conference -- before the proverbial horse, if not the straw cart itself. Is it just me, or is this not normally the way good science is done? Can you imagine what would have happened had NASA held a press conference, say, a year _before_ Pathfinder landed in working order? They'd be up to their armpits in Hoag Land. Of course as far as Hoag Land is concerned, NASA would be in over its eyebrows no matter what it did, short of appointing His Hairness CEO. I suspect that the Roswell fragment press conference -- that wasn't a press conference -- took place where and when it did precisely because of terrestrial isotopic ratios having something to do with the number of cameras and microphones present in a given room at the same time. Mind, Steven, none of the above is directed at you personally. I just hopped on your post with an early press release. Direct any potentially discomfiting questions to my agent...aka the Duke of Mendoza, and _his_ agent, Aleister Crowley, and _his_ agent before him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:25:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:41:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 At 11:58 AM 07/27/97 -0400, Desiree Holloway wrote: >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 07:59:57 -0700 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 >> From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:04:04 EDT >> Right, NASA is so incompetent that they accidentally put up >> a picture offering proof of an extinct Martian civilization >> on their website, just long enough for a few people to >> capture it, then they change it, and expect no one to notice. >> I believe that. >1) I NEVER claimed that the whatzit in the photo was PROOF >of anything, much less an extinct Martian civilization! I >merely questioned what it was. >2) I can only tell you the facts. The picture was there, it >was gone for a while, it came back...with a grainy texture >in the background that was not previously there. Why this >happened I don't know. >3) The object in the picture is faint enough that it is >possible that they could have missed it initially. Yes, it's an oddity but most likely caused by something in the CCD camera imaging for that particular picture, noise perhaps, or a bad CRC in transmission, which isn't unheard of. I've d/l over 30 megs of the Pathfinder pix in the last 2 weeks. I used to be able to get into the plain directory at http://mars.sgi.com/ops where all these photos were, including ones that weren't even thumnailed or made it onto the main public page...but they have now put that directory off limits. The CCD camera has limits, that's why you only see small squares stitched together for mosaics. Very few of the photos I got from the /ops directory are what you would consider "high detailed resolution". A large portion are very grainy, and the gamma is way too dark in many, however I didn't see anything to indicate some kind of "bait and switch" was going on in the few days that I had access to the direct (mirrored) picture folder. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:00:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:45:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? At 12:01 PM 07/27/97 -0400, Jason DeGraf wrote: >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jason DeGraf <gilgamesh@cyberconnect.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:11:41 +0100 >>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:41:02 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:15:56 -0400 >>>From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Kal Korff has NO room to raise questions about Jim Dilettoso >>authenticating _anything_ when HE CANNOT follow through >>on his OWN statements. >>Either stand and deliver Kal, or get the hell out of here and stay >>out and be forever known as a worthless debunker who refuses to >>substantiate his rhetoric with FACTS. >Typical day in the field, nobody has any crediblity >in this game, deal with the folks long enough, and >you can only come to that conclusion. >But I just love how the debunkers jump on any little >tidbit and place themselves in some higher watchdog >esteem. Yet fail everytime with their own standards of >research. Kal Korff and Hoagaland merely jump >on the bandwagon to get their face noticed in the >crowd. I just find it extremely annoying and very convenient that Kal Korff who has proffered explanations in the past that he was "too busy" and "swamped" to deliver on his rebuttals to Rudiak, myself and others in the last two months and slid out of sight during that time, now has appeared to comment on the Phoenix Lights, just to get in a lick at Jim Diletosso. Talk about low class! I also find it highly interesting that the Great and Wonderful Debunker of OZ, Kal Korff, willingly gives nod to the "flare" story when Tom King and others, have gone to great lengths to document the pursuit of the Phoenix Lights for quite some time. Yet, we're supposed to swallow whole, the explanation that what various people saw, took video of and investigated _first-hand_, was nothing more than a bunch of airborne flares. Yea, sure. There also appears to be a discrepancy in the times noted for these sightings noted on the same evening. A few basic questions - How long does anyone suppose that a parachuted flare can remain in one area for any length of time, or even at a certain altitude? Is the great unwashed viewing public in Phoenix incapable of training binoculars on these flares and making a judgement as to what they see? After all, flares DO leave a shower of sparks and their light is not uniform. Are we to supposed to believe that a flight of A-10's dropped flares and fooled the entire population of Phoenix and that _this_ is the singular explanation for ALL the sightings around the state of Arizona for the last few months? Pretty damned thin, if you ask me. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Lost addresses From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 06:41:53 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:13:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Lost addresses Hi List, I publish a UFO newsletter each week and disaster has struck: I lost my database of email addresses. I am now in the process=20 of reconstructing the list and I know that some of you have=20 subscribed through this list. I really lost your addresses,=20 so please contact me again. For others who are curious as to what newsletter I am talking about,=20 I have included a copy here. If you want to subscribe, just say so. It's free, weekly. ______ _______ /\ / / / / / ____ --------- _______ / / /______ / / / / / \ / / / / / / / /____/ ___ / /___ /_____/ / /_____/ _/ / \ /_________/ =FF - 21 - Disaster 2 Man says he communicated with aliens for NSA 2 Questions for Dan Sherman 4 Alien materials 7 Did rats destroy TWA Flight 800? 10 Light Stuff 11 Briefs 12 WEB SITES 12 Editor's notes: 13 - 1 of 13 - - UFOPals - ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ************************************************************* Disaster ************************************************************** Dear readers, Disaster has struck. I had about 140 readers, now I'm back at about 60. What happened? You guessed right. I deleted my database of e-mail addresses. It's the stupidest thing one can do, but I wasn't aware of it when I did it. I regularly clean up my hard disk and I must have deleted one file too many. I am now trying to reconstruct my address list. I found an old back up file, knew some of your addresses by heart and there was some overlap with my personal acquaintances. But I'm afraid I won't be able to get in contact again with some of my readers who live as far away as Australia, South Africa and Brazil or others who live in Belgium and Germany, people I don't know and whose email addresses I have never seen in an Internet discussion group. So I need your help. If you know people of whom you suspect to be a subsriber to this newsletter, please forward this message to them so that contact can be restored. For starters, please let someone contact: . Craig Lang, Joseph Dundovic, Joel Earl Henry and William McNeff of MUFON Minnesota . Trudy Schuett of Yuma, Arizona . Beverly Trout of MUFON Iowa . Philip Mantle and Sean Jones of the UK . Bob Shell of the USA . Eduardo Russo of Italy - HvdP ************************************************************** Man says he communicated with aliens for NSA ************************************************************** From Glenn Campbell SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW with Dan Sherman >From 1992 through 1994, Dan ("D.L") Sherman claims to have worked with a secret military program to communicate with aliens. He was a government specialist who received communications from alien beings and typed them on a computer terminal. His job was analogous to a communications officer on a ship receiving morse code but with more depth and greater exchange between the parties. He never saw any aliens, only communicated with them "intuitively". - 2 of 13 - - UFOPals - Sherman says he was prepared for this role by the aliens before his birth. Apparently during an abduction of his mother in 1963, his genetic structure was slightly altered to allow him to receive alien communications. He was unaware of this ability until, years later, he was briefed about it while in the Air Force. He was assigned to a program called "Project Preserve Destiny" (PPD). He was told that the purpose of the program was to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications would not work. He calls the ability "intuitive communications" (IC). His abilities were "activated" during an 8-10 week course at NSA headquarters at Fort Meade in early 1992. (NSA is National Security Agency - HvdP). It was a sort of "night school" after his daytime training in another secret but conventional field. After training, Sherman's PPD duties were veiled by conventional top secret duties at two Air Force bases. While at work he would receive notification (apparently psychic), that a communication was about to begin. He would then open a special blank window on the computer terminal where he was working and would type the communication into it. He would then close the window, and the information would be sent to an unknown destination. The content of the communications ("comms") were numbers mostly. It was mainly things he did not understand, but some of the numbers he recognized as the coordinates of locations on earth. He says he received longer comms right after major space launches such as Ariane and the Shuttle. Sherman says: "During my last few months I started to receive what I thought to be abduction data. This is when I started having questions and I began to want out of the whole thing. This led to the sequence of events resulting in my discharge. I think they were testing my resolve as well because all of a sudden the comms were not totally in code anymore. I thought that was quite odd. I'm not sure what was going on but I didn't like the comms. I would be told locations, resistance levels, residual pain levels, potentiality for recall and each case that I reported would be given a code. I had no idea what the codes were but I didn't like it... bottom line. I felt like I was reporting the lab results of a bunch of mice experiments." Sherman says he left the PPD program in Dec. 1994 and obtained release from the military in April 1995 because of his discomfort with what he was learning. Sherman says he shows no evidence of psychic ability apart from communication with these aliens. Since leaving the military, he has received no further comms and has had no further contact with his previous government contacts in the program. No government agents have threatened him to keep quiet, but he fears that any improper disclosures of his "conventional" top secret work could get him in trouble. He has been working on a book, but that project has been slowed by his own concern about "legal issues." - 3 of 13 - - UFOPals - Sherman says that his communication with the aliens was two-way. He calls them complex creatures. He says that although he cannot describe them visually, "mentally, they are rigid, disciplined and mostly unemotional." He did sense compassion from them, however. "It was almost like this was their nature but they overrode this characteristic because they perhaps felt it was a weakness." An alien told him that they had been visiting earth "since the beginning." "They had made there presence known at some time in the past to our ancestors and that the whole thing went haywire somehow, so they have chosen to remain selective in their revelations since. They impacted three historical cultures in the past. Which ones they didn't say, but I have extrapolated since based on other information. I also learned that there are other alien 'species' besides the ones I commed with. The whole reason for PPD is to train a certain number of humans to be able to communicate with the aliens so as to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications will not work. I was never told what 'event' this would be, but I have my own ideas based on other information I've learned over the years." If anyone would like to ask Mr. Sherman about his experiences, he has agreed to answer questions by email. His replies will be saved and added to a new web document, so they are available to everyone and he does not have to answer the same questions repeatedly. Send queries to Dan Sherman at: ppdman@juno.com With a cc to: campbell@ufomind.com For more on Sherman, see www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/ An email interview with former government insider Dan Sherman is now available at: www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/inter- view.shtml Summary by Glenn Campbell (a neutral moderator) Reviewed and approved by D.L. Sherman=20 7/24/97 ---------- Index: D.L. Sherman ************************************************************** Questions for Dan Sherman ************************************************************** Several people have asked Sherman questions through Glenn Campbell. The questions posed by me were: - HvdP - 4 of 13 - - UFOPals - Q: Why do you think the NSA is keeping this PPD program secret? A: My assumption is that the event that will precipitate the reason to have trained Intuitive Communicators in the first place, if known by the general populace would not be welcome news. The straight answer to your question however is "I don't know for sure." Very rarely are people who are privvy to information, like I was, privvy to EVERYTHING! I was simply a tool (indispensible, but still only a tool). Q: You said there were three cultures that were influenced by the aliens and that you had an idea which those were. Which are they? A: Over the years, I have read alot of books trying to amalgama- te information put out by others and attempted to attach some sort of meaning to things based on what I know about the existence of aliens. I feel it's quite possible the three cultures they influenced (all in different ways I feel) are the Egyptian, Mayan and Incan. I feel there is a possibility that they influenced the Basque people in some way as well. Again, these are only my guesses, and they would be the guesses of a lot of people I'm sure. Q: What do you think is the event that will trigger a breakdown of electromagnetic communications? A: I have thought long and hard about this. I feel it will most likely be an event that is natural occuring. I say that because if it were a nuclear war or something else brought on by man's actions, how could anyone know it was going to happen years before it were to happen? Remember, PPD began in the early 1960's in preparation for something in the future. The aliens that I comm'ed with were advanced but I don't think they could predict the future unless it was based on predicatable set of circumstances. Such as a pole shift, asteroid strike...etc.=20 These are all events, that if one were knowledgeable enough, could be predicted years in advance. So my thoughts are, it will be something along this magnitude. Now this is based on what I was told regarding the reason I was being trained. That is, I will be able to provide communications in a world without ordinary methods to do so. But what if I was just TOLD that and there was actually an altogether different reason. This is where it gets frustrating because I have absolutely no idea which is true. =20 I do know however that one of my alien contacts lead me to believe on several occasions that the earth will experience some major upheaval in it's future. Again, no specifics. (LIfe sure would be easy if you could believe everything you experience while in the military. But this is just not possible!) The following is a question submitted by John Velez, Rep. Intruders Foundation Online at jvif@spacelab.net: - 5 of 13 - - UFOPals - Q: Do you know anything about the purposes of the abductions?=20 I appreciate any help that you may be able to provide us in our search for answers and the truth. A: This is a tough one. I was stationed at two separate bases as a mission ready IC. At the second one, I started to receive, as the subject of my comms, what appeared to be abduction data.=20 At the time, I thought they were quite upsetting and that is why I opted to try any means by which to get a discharge. I didn't want to be involved is such an operation. Even though, as a direct result of my mother being abducted, I was given this IC ability. It affects you more deeply when you are reporting data that shows "residual pain levels." That was disturbing to me.=20 I felt like Frankenstein's radio man, reporting to his superiors how the creation is coming along. It was absolutely repugnant to me. That said, what if they were simply sending me test information to test my resolve to report whatever comes through, without prejudice? In the info that I received, no where did they actually say "Attention, this is abduction data!" It was only apparent in the content of the information. So who knows really? Again, is the reality I was exposed to true or not?=20 It's all relative in the "special projects" world of the military. So the short answer is..... I don't know the overall reason for the abductions, but simply because my mother would have had to be abducted I do believe it's real and there are most likely several reasons for it. I believe there are several alien missions being hidden within the military machine, all with totally separate agendas and missions.=20 Some of them may be autonomous from one another as well. I would venture to guess that in the past, they all had a few upper echelon people in charge of all of them and who knew the existence of all of them but over time, because of the severe compartmentalization, as these people died off they became splintered and isolated from one another and no longer have common leadership. This is my theory! Ben McLaughlin at sitar6@geocities.com asks the following: Q: Did you ever recieve information from the Aliens which may have been related to Project HARPE (that big Alaskan "experi- ment")? A: The only thing I know about this project was from an article I read about it a while back in some magazine. As I read it, I remember thinking that this is prime government "Black" mission.=20 This may very well be linked to PPD somehow. But unfortunately, I do not know anything about it. In the book I talk about a run in I had with a company that is a specialist in "Noise Cancella- tion" and how they are probably experimenting with this as well.=20 I'll tell you, there are so many more applications with electro- magnetic energy that I'm sure we haven't even scratched the surface of bringing to application. The government is heavily involved with these types of experiments, I'm positive! I go over all my speculations in the book.=20 - 6 of 13 - - UFOPals - Ellen at ELANDNB@aol.com commented as follows: Q: I am an abductee. Are you really willing to share your experiences?=20 A: I'm attempting to get a book released that will share the more interesting aspects of my experiences. As was stated in the interview with Glenn, I'm dealing with a lot of legal ramificati- ons of releasing certain info surrounding where I was stationed and the info that might be released inadvertantly regarding my other non-alien but VERY classified duties. It's a challenge, but I hope to be able to do this soon. ************************************************************** Alien materials ************************************************************** Scientists Scoff at Chunk of Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon By John Fleck=20 Journal Staff Writer=20 A chunk of silicon touted earlier this month as unearthly scientific proof that a UFO crashed near Roswell 50 years ago easily could have been cooked up in any college chemistry lab, scientists say.=20 Even the scientist who made the original out-of-this-world claim at a July 4 Roswell news conference that the material couldn't have been made on Earth now acknowledges the evidence is "inconclusive." "In retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight, I would have been a little more careful with my language," said San Diego chemist Russell VernonClark in a telephone interview Thursday.=20 During the frenzied 50th anniversary celebrations of an alleged alien crash in New Mexico, VernonClark stood on a stage and said of the fragment of silicon: "It is impossible for it to be from Earth."=20 It was one of the most remarkable events during the 50th anniversary celebration, which drew thousands of people who paraded in strange costumes and bought large quantities of UFO paraphernalia.=20 But in the weeks since, VernonClark's work has been subjected to a withering critique by other scientists.=20 In the interview Thursday, he said he should have acknowledged during the news conference the possibility the material could have been manufactured on Earth.=20 Scientists studying VernonClark's data, which the chemist published on the Internet, point to serious flaws. "There's just a number of huge mistakes in that report, holes big enough to run a dump truck through," said Albuquerque physicist Dave Thomas.=20 - 7 of 13 - - UFOPals - Among the problems: VernonClark's claim that the alleged 50-year- old spacecraft debris contained detectable amounts of the element germanium-75, a substance so radioactive scientists say it would decay into other elements in less than a day.=20 But even looking beyond the alleged flaws in the data, the scientists say the claim the material must be extraterrestrial because of its unusual characteristics doesn't hold up.=20 The ingredients to make it could be purchased from chemical supply houses, they said, and easily mixed together in any university chemistry lab.=20 "You could do it here," said University of Kentucky chemist Rob Toreki. "There's no validity to what he's saying," Toreki said of VernonClark's claim.=20 At the news conference, television producer Paul Davids, who produced a fictional account of the alleged UFO crash near Roswell, told reporters the material came from someone who claimed to have gotten it from the 1947 crash of an alien spacecraft near Roswell. VernonClark, a chemist who works as an environmental health and safety specialist in the chemistry laboratory at the University of California, San Diego, said he was skeptical when he first got the sample.=20 But VernonClark said that when he tested it, he was surprised by the results.=20 He sent it to a second, unidentified scientist for additional tests, with similarly surprising results, he said.=20 VernonClark's evidence that the material is extraterrestrial is based on an analysis of the types of silicon and other chemicals in the object.=20 The atoms of a chemical such as silicon come in different types, called "isotopes." The ratios of the different isotopes of naturally occurring silicon on Earth provide a sort of finger- print, and scientists believe elements such as silicon formed in other parts of the galaxy would have different isotopic finger- prints.=20 VernonClark said he and his unidentified colleague found isotopic fingerprints in the mystery material that didn't match the fingerprint of natural silicon on Earth.=20 The problem, Toreki explained, is that the isotopic fingerprint in VernonClark's data would be relatively easy for a chemist to manufacture. For example, scientists can buy purified silicon of a number of different isotopes from the Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, said Sandia National Laboratories scientist Dick Coats.=20 - 8 of 13 - - UFOPals - All you need to make a material as "unearthly" as VernonClark's sample is to mix up some of those Oak Ridge samples in a chemistry lab, Toreki and Thomas said.=20 In the interview this week, VernonClark acknowledged he has no proof the material is extraterrestrial, but said he still believes it's a strong possibility.=20 Copyright c 1997 Albuquerque Journal=20 _____ Of course, this kind of totally one-sided attitude would not be unexpected if there had never been any UFO Roswell event. But in any event, I wonder just how simple it would be to mix together such trace amounts of the proper isotopic abundances of Ni, Ag, Zn, GE, etc. within the 99%+ silicon piece, and obtain the observed isotopic ratios upon examination? The Kentucky chemist or others really need to try this, and give honest results of their findings, before making such a statement.=20 The very small amount of unstable Ge (75) isotope found present is certainly perplexing, but that might point to something presently unknown to 20th-century chemistry. Even Carl Sagan used to say that what advanced ETs could do ought to seem like magic to us (in repeating Arthur Clark), and this ought to apply to the field of chemistry & materials science as well as to interstellar travel. Jim Deardorff ______ From: GeebeeR@aol.com Skye, Dr. Russel VernonClark said yesterday in and interview with Chris Wyatt of CBS, that he had said none of what was quoted in this article. The reporter who wrote the story is in a lot of hot water, and may well be sued for libel. Dr. VernonClark was on vacation at the time. Too bad he didn't check his facts either. Don ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / - 9 of 13 - - UFOPals - ************************************************************** Did rats destroy TWA Flight 800? ************************************************************** Source: The Express On Sunday newspaper Date: 13 July 1997 Did rats from space down TWA Flight 800? By Charles Oulton Science Correspondent A freak accident involving a canister of rats launched from space may have caused last year's TWA crash off the coast of New York, killing all 230 passengers and crew. The latest, and most bizarre, theory to be examined by accident investigators claims the container - travelling towards earth at 800 mph - punctured the aircraft's central fuel tank, causing an explosion. The FBI found no evidence to support its theory that a bomb caused the crash and eventually concluded that mechanical failure had caused the fuel tank to explode after a build up of vapour. However, no one has explained how the vapour or gas was ignited - and that is where the canister takes on it intriguing significan- ce. The Space Shuttle Columbia launched a capsule containing the canister before it returned to earth on July 7 last year after a record 17 day mission. Scientists hoped to examine the animals to test the impacts of space travel on bone marrow. When the capsule re-entered the earth's atmosphere, it was blasted open by rockets to release the canister which was fitted with a parachute. A US C130 Hercules trailed a giant net to catch the canister at 30,000ft. But the parachute failed to open, putting the canister on a collision course with TWA Flight 800, which had taken off from John F Kennedy airport for Paris 9 minutes earlier. The canister is said to have hit the aircrafts fuselage at 13,700ft, puncturing the near empty central fuel tank which then exploded. Seconds later, the Boeing 747 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, watched by horrified onlookers on the shores of nearby Long Island. It was the second worse crash in American aviation history. The new theory could explain a photograph taken by Linda Kabot, showing a mysterious, cylindrical object which seemed to be heading south west towards the aircraft. The FBI interviewed Mrs Kabot and her husband several times and plotted a possible trajectory for the object. Although they eventually dismissed the evidence, they instructed the Kabot's not to talk about it. - 10 of 13 - - UFOPals - The canister theory could also explain radar pictures which also revealed an object resembling a missile speeding towards the aircraft. Although the Pentagon confirmed the jet crashed near an area some times used for "air combat exercises", few people believe that it was brought down by a missile fired from the sea. A Nasa spokeswoman said: "we had nothing to do with TWA." As rumours of the new lead circulated, a senior source close to the investigation claimed there had been a cover-up because of the severe embarrassment it would cause. "This is a scandal being hushed up. No one has admitted losing this canister because it would anger the animal rights lobby. But if the aircraft was brought down by this canister, the truth should be told." ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \-/ ************************************************************** Light Stuff ************************************************************** From: Flatland Magazine #13 When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he not only made his famous 'One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Mankind' statement, but followed it by several remarks - usual comm-traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control. Before he re-entered the lander, he made an enigmatic remark: "Good Luck, Mr Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut: however, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American space programs. Over the years, many people have questioned him as to what the 'Good Luck, Mr. Gorsky' statement meant. On July 5 in Tampa Bay, FL, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded. It seems that Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could answer the question. - 11 of 13 - - UFOPals - When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball with his brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball which landed in front of his neighbours bedroom window. The neighbours were Mr. and Mrs. Gorsky. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, Neil heard Mrs. Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky. "Oral sex? Oral sex you want? You'll get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!" ____ Three men from Yemen have claimed that they own the planet Mars. They are warning NASA to stop its activities on the red planet, because their ancestors came from Mars and they therefore regard the exploits of Pathfinder and its rover Sojourner as trespas- sing. A NASA spokesman reacted that Mars belonged to the whole human race and not just to three guys in Yemen. ************************************************************** Briefs ************************************************************** The Global Surveyor spacecraft is getting close to Mars. Although the Surveyor will arrive at Mars in about 7 weeks, it will take several months for the orbit to be 'rounded'. Initially the orbit will be extremely elliptical (initially 56,000KM). Through the careful use of 'aerobraking', the orbit will be slowly changed into a tight circular orbit. (app 400KM). According to Dr. Dan Woolman the first images will arrive in about 8 weeks.=20 Global Surveyor will make a radar map of the entire planet Mars, including the so called 'face'. | ---- | / / |/ / ---- --|----\ ----- / | | ------/ / / / / / / ----- ************************************************************** WEB SITES ************************************************************** UFO Information Center International has 2 new pages: (o) Crashed UFOs (alleged), an almost complete listing of all alleged ufo crashes since 1897. The list was compiled using various sources. (o) Retrieved Bodies (alleged), a list of retrieved alien bodies. The pages can be visited by pointing your browser at: http://www.ufoic.com/home.htm - 12 of 13 - - UFOPals - ************************************************************** Editor's notes: UFOPals welcomes: . your own UFO report . abduction experience . analysis or commentary Anonimity will be provided if needed. UFOPals also welcomes: . congress announcements . congress reports . notification of a change in your web site . information about your UFO organization All contributions to this newsletter must be in English. Grammar and spelling need not be perfect. In case of a change in your e-mail address, please notify me in advance, so that you can continue to receive UFOPals. If you haven't received this newsletter for more than three weeks, something must have gone wrong, so please contact me. Readers are encouraged to invite their friends, acquaintances and colleagues to subscribe to this newsletter. The text of this newsletter can be transferred to your preferred word processor. First take care that this newsletter and your wordprocessor are both activated under a Windows operating system. Then select the text of the newsletter with the computer mouse, click on the copy command (Ctrl-C), change to your word processor and paste the text by clicking the Paste icon (suitca- se) into your word processor document. ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / ************************************************************** Issue: July 27, 1997 Editor: Henny van der Pluijm Correspondent Israel: Barry Chamish UFO FAQ: http://www.ufoic.com/faq Subscribers: ? ______________________________________________________________ (C) Henny van der Pluijm, 1997. ______________________________________________________________ =FF - 13 of 13 - - UFOPals - =FF __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:15:01 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:06:35 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: no occult dish, thanks >Hi, everybody, >Dennis is a good and treasured friend and colleague, >but the above does come as a shock. Or maybe it >shouldn't. Hynek and Vallee gave up on science when >they gave up on the ETH and turned to the "wisdom" >of the Western occult tradition for guidance. Based on >what happened to them, plus my own natural skepticism, >I'll stay with science, thanks. > Dear Jerry, Equally good, treasured friend and colleague, I'm shocked that you're shocked because I'm not sure why exactly you're shocked. Mostly I was just showboatin' and braggin' about the breadth of my personal library. Still, I don't think anyone would consider the Corliss corpus even remotely within the realm of the Western occult tradition. I could have mentioned a list of equal length referring to nothing but western science; what I was doing, though, was responding to Bob Shell's email by saying, yes, I've read much of the material you [Shell] originally mentioned. In other words, I'm well aware of it. I also prefer my own natural skepticism and science -- but then that would include the science of perception, altered states of consciousness and human nature in general, wouldn't it? (To mention but a few.) >I have no idea what "obvious thread" connects >the transparently bogus AA film and the truly puzzling >Socorro event, unless "obvious thread" by any other name >would be "rhetorical strategy." If so, a bare wisp o' one. To >paraphrase Woody Guthrie: If it were any thinner, even a >politician could see through it. > >Jerry Clark > > The other part of my statement I either misspoke, or you misinterpreted. I was not referring to Zamora's Socorro case, but to the alien autopsy film, which is now being postulated as depicting an alien cadaver recovered from near Socorro -- as opposed to Roswell -- or haven't you heard? And what I meant to say was that there was indeed no obvious thread -- in the form of a physical spaceship -- that would tie the Western occult tradition to the alien autopsy film, or, for that matter, any other alleged physical crash in which alien bodies were recovered. (As far as I know, for instance, none of the medieval esotericists ever accused the Catholic Church and the state of covering up demonic visitors and engaging in pacts with the devil; it was always the other way 'round, wasn't it? Which leads one, I suppose, to appreciate today's "enlightened" Air Force. They could be engaged in witch hunts ending in hanging or a fiery death at the stake; instead, they resort to ridicule. [This theory excludes the current paranoid demographic segment of ufology, of course, which is no doubt as interested in and obsessed by science as anyone.]) That said, that decidedly does _not_ mean that anyone trying to make sense of bedroom visitors, poltergeists, the Old Hag, fairies, and various other fortean phenomena (which may include some abduction cases) would necessarily be ill-served (or led seriously astray) by familiarizing themselves with the pre-existing literature. You yourself have often said that most ufologists aren't widely read in fields that might shine some additional light on the overall problem(s) at hand -- and I couldn't agree more. I was simply reiterating the same sentiment -- not drawing any penultimate conclusion therefrom. But now that you bring the subject up...the so-called "occult" (western or otherwise) tradition has long suffered from the same sort of misunderstanding (and knee-jerk dismissal and ridicule) that now applies to ufology in general. To lump Gurdjieff and Blavatsky in the same boat -- to reference but two well known names -- for example, would be akin to equating James McDonald with Donald Menzel because both wrote about UFOs, and therefore it could be demonstrated (by historians a hundred years hence or more) that both shared similar interests -- not to mention the name Donald. At its worst, the western occult tradition (I skip the quote marks) was no worse than any other activity humans have engaged in over the last several hundred thousands years, from the reading of goat entrails to the purchase and "care" of pet rocks, to the tendency to slaughter one another in great numbers. At its best, it was an attempt to make sense of existence outside of the popularly established religious and cultural interpretations of the time. Phenomenologically, it's Gnosticism all over again. Do you want a series of intermediaries between you and gnosis, or do you want to go for it on your own? Does it have anything to teach us about UFOs? Who knows? But it certainly has something fundamental to teach us about the humans who report and experience UFOs... Or by gum my name ain't SA Sasquatch!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Vallee Re-surfaces? From: SGBList1@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:53:08 -0400 Subject: Vallee Re-surfaces? Re: Project Watchfire netshow on the "Politics of UFOs" When: August 5, 9 p.m. est (new show every Tuesday evening) Where: Project Watchfire website: www.watchfire.msn.com/watchfire Guests: Jacques Vallee, researcher and author and Stephen Bassett, consultant As prelude to my appearance on this show I am seeking input from BB and ML participants on concepts making up the politics of UFOs. Any comments are welcome. If you prefer, feel free to respond privately. Some suggestions: What does the concept "Politics of UFOs" mean to you" Is there a place for a political activist wing in the UFO movement? Is it really a movement? Are any of these issues politically resolvable in our lifetime? What is your opinion of CSETI's efforts politically? Statgare International? How dangerous do you perceive strong activism in these areas at this time? What is your opinion of the various petition efforts? How effective were the FOIA efforts? Is our society <<politically>> capable of dealing with a full paradigm shift coming out fo the alien hypothesis? Any other ideas and suggestions.? As a consultant and lobbyist working with extraterrestrial phenomena researchers, I am of the view that the key initial issues will be resolved politically in Washington, DC before they are resolved scientifically. Do you agree? For more information on MSN's Project Watchfire UFO website and netshow, go to: www.watchfire.msn.com/watchfire You may contact me privately at ParagidmRG@aol.com Thanks in advance. Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group Bethesda, MD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Petition for 1997 Congressional Hearings of UFO From: SGBList1@aol.com [Stephen Bassett] Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:18:37 -0400 Subject: Petition for 1997 Congressional Hearings of UFO The following petition was launched during the Roswell, July event. This petition will be turning up soon on numerous websites and can be downloaded, copied, recopied and distributed by any interested parties or individuals. ________________________________________________ 1997 Open Congressional Hearing on Modern UFO Evidence I, the undersigned, petition my Congress to hold in 1997 an open hearing in which government , military, civilian contract and agency employees (active and retired) are permitted to give testimony regarding their personal knowledge of any UFO related evidence, this testimony to be given under immunity by waiver of any applicable security oath or agreement of non-disclosure. ____________________________________ This petition is sponsored by The Coalition for Honesty in Government, a project of Stargate International. Permission to use, modify, copy and distribute is given to any interested organization or individual. When this or similar petition is completed, please send to: Coalition for Honesty in Government, Stargate International, P.O. Box 85159, Tucson, AZ 85754-5159. All petitions will be organized by state and delivered to our Washington, DC coordinator for presentation to the Congress of the United States. _____________________________________________________ This petition represents a very precise and focused method by which congress can be called into action. It does not require a congressional member to commit to any particular view on the UFO evidence. It only requires what amounts to a constituent service - allowing patriotic Americans from many states to give personal testimony on their experience while in the employ, directly or indirectly, of the U. S. Government. This petition is in support of ongoing efforts to bring the United Congress into the process of disclosure. Thousands of signatures have been collected and there is some interest on the part of some media to address the nature and intent of this action. I propose to those of you who are inclined to an activist posture in these matters to do what you feel is appropriate to further disseminate this petition nationally. Thanks. Stephen Bassett Consultant to Stargate International Paradigm Research Group ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:07:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > Date: Sunday, July 27, 1997 12:38 AM > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:23 GMT > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > >before mid-1955. Records may not have surfaced which prove what > >did "crash" at Roswell, but records most certainly have surfaced > >etc. > Karl, > Look at this possibility. If ... Roswell really involved an > extraterrestrial space vehicle, do you expect minutes of a > released USAF Scientific Advisory Board or a letter from AMC > chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy to REALLY > say it was such? > So my point is that these documents, because they are > released, doesn't PROVE it wasn't a crashed saucer. As you > might recall, the military put the lid on Roswell with Gen. > Ramey's press conference. Thus, any released information > after then could NEVER say it was a crashed saucer. > Especially since the GAO's efforts to find information > regarding this incident were fruitless. ========================= burned beyond all possible reclamation/recovery, I understand..... utterly and completely destroyed. Forever! Such that the Government's Accountant, cannot Account for it at all. ========================= > In my opinion, you are mistaken when you say "CASE CLOSED!". <g> Perhaps what we really have is a Trick Bunny. thought... They really did do a number one bang-up job (they had 50 years to do it in) on absolutely removing any and all traces of the Roswell crash. In fact, the GAO search was the final testing of the cover-up and it was perfect. The Government no longer has any documentation concerning that spot at that time. Its all been fixed. So..... along come the Public Control Boys, and see a lovely psycho prop. The perfect focus for Ufologists!! Let em dig here. Its bottomless. To 'sway' the public science in that direction, add fuel to the fire of the conspiracy. Every now and then, make some truly absurd statement about the incident. And make it public. There has to be at least 100 Top Secret Events that were undertaken between 1947 and 1955 in approximately that area, which have absolutely no reason for being secret, save that it was the original, or consequent label they were assigned; and once there, always there. Every year or two, declassify another goofy project from that flock - the goofier the better to maintain the carnival slapstick nature of the official image of "them funny ufologists", and feed it into the public. The Ufologists, used to being lied to will feel more absolutely sure there is something they can dig up if they remain persistant because the Official Story is obviously BS, while the general public can be tuned to look upon Ufology as a farcical comedy; bemembered by a lesser order of intellect than yer normal joe tv. That'll make joe feel good too. An enormous amount of human energy appears to be syphoned off into this one particular UFO event. Certainly, it should be the most documented - being apparently the first State-side. Yet, even the government's own watchdog admits that it cannot find any at all. If they cannot find them, then they very likely no longer exist, or at the very least, have been removed beyond any public access avenue. Like where they keep all the originally public Mars photographs. >:> Perhaps I might simply make a terrible security chief, but if I wanted to make something that happened, into something that did not happen, I'd simply eliminate every shred of locatable evidence. To my way of thinking, those who I was protecting would have their own copies for whatever reason, leaving all publically available sources alone to deal with. Erase them. You can always thereafter state proudly - I'm sorry, but we have no records of any kind, pertaining to any such event ever happening in that place, at that time. If you think we are lying to you, you may file an appeal to ............................... The real event that happened there will always serve up clues as to what occurred, but can never find any verification through offical channels and thus, never be proven pro or con. Any records that for whatever reason need to be maintained, can be maintained outside the loop, by those at the top anyway. I see it as the perfect focal point to direct public attention towards, if you wanted to divert their efforts into a vaccuum. Just a thought. G.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:18:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:02:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:58 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At > By Scientists >Did it ever occur to you that it might also point to terrestrial error -- >either human or instrumental or both? Dennis- According to the presentation, the samples were subjected to double blind testing with at least one other (unnamed) scientist coming up with the same results. This does not eliminate human, proceedural, or instrumental error. But, I would say that the chances have been reduced by quite a bit. If this amounts to anything, it will be announced when they have all their data and results compiled and written up. Of course, the debate will merely continue on a different level. Note that the debate on the fossil microbes on the Mars Rock continues at a low background noise level. >There is at least one thing about the sample we can say with some degree of >certainty: apparently Roswellium 47 has a half-life of at least 50 years, >which should carry it (and any attached exotic isotopes) well into the next >century. Okay, you get a B-minus for creativity, but let's not encourage others to treat this matter as a joke. (begin Carl Sagan accent) If these findings hold up, it will be interesting to see how this piece of space "debris" is fit into our understanding of our place in the universe. (end accent)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:09:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:25:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > > -- KARL deBUNKER =20 > Well, at least he got that part right. =20 > David Rudiak Very impressive Mr. Rudiak -- I'm glad that you were also allowed to sift through Marcel's file -- Your evaluation seems to have more=20 balance than Korf or Pflock (sounds like I coughed up a hair ball). Thanks for the attention to detail. =20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:52:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:28:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: 26 Jul 97 11:10:36 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Autopsy once again >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:26:39 -0400 >>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Alien Autopsy once again >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> ><snip> >Your grace, >I think your remote viewer had one pint too many before this >viewing. While I agree with the observations of "Ray Santilli" >in your script, particularly in regard to Sharon's physical >attributes, I must point out to you that the actual bookkeeper >is a fellow named Harry. >I've attempted to speak with Harry on this and other matters, >but the problem is that Harry is a Scot (McGraw by surname, >if I recollect rightly.) While it is true that Scots make >the best bankers and bookkeepers, it is equally true that >only another Scot can understand a word they say. So, >lacking a Highlander interpreter/translator, I made little >progress. >Should you be fluent in Highland Broag, perhaps you could >accompany me to Balcombe street one day and talk to Harry. >Bob Hiya Bob, Errol and All As it happens my uncle lives in Kirkcaldy on the shore almost opposite Edinburgh in bonnie Scotland, Land of the Brave etc etc. As such I can understand Scottish brogue very well, my Scottish accent comes out as well when I speak to the scots which will make things worse for the listener I'm sure. So back to the issue, should you want an intrepreter let me know when, where and at what time and I'll be there. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:38 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:29:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle >From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:41:29 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle Melanie, You seem to have misinterpreted what I said completely, and gotten really hostile in the process. I am not saying that the abduction phenomenon does not exist, nor am I saying that it is 100% subjective. I'm simply saying that to insist that the beings involved in the phenomenon are "aliens" from space is a very simplistic interpretation. These things have been abducting, contacting, and interacting with humans since before written history, and have presented themselves to us in forms which we could accept into the mythology of the times. Today space aliens fit our mythology, so that's how we see them. In the past we saw them as trolls, elves, fairies, leprechauns, demons, sprites, gods, etc. etc. etc. I just don't think we have any compelling reason to accept that we are dealing with space aliens, any more than that we are dealing with the king of elfland. We should admit that we don't know what they are or where/when they come from. And we must be willing to admit that the experiences have subjective as well as objective aspects. The one thing which comes down to us from the past and from our accumulated folklore is a simple and important message: They can not be trusted. Whatever they say they are, wherever they say they are from, why they say they are here; these are things that it is very dangerous to take their word for. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:40 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:30:21 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:48:19 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Hey, Bob: >Not so fast! My $75 copy of Meric Casaubon's "A True and >Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between >Dr. John Dee and Some Spirits" is due any day now from >Pratum Books (PO Box 985, Healdsburg, CA 95448). >When it arrives, it goes on the shelf along with the other >Dee books on hand, ones by Francis Yates, Crowley, Mathers, >Machen, Yeats, Regardie, Gurdjieff and others. (Not to >mention Fort, Keel and Vallee, nor would I ever think of >doing so.) And then there's Jung, Blake, Paul Radin's "The >Trickster," the nearly complete works of the compilations >of William Corliss, countless tomes by Colin Wilson, and >the first English translation of the Koran by George Sale, >1734 (for what that's worth, and I think it's quite a bit), >along with numerous Sufi works translated from the Arabic >and Persian tongues by A. J. Arberry and R. A. Nicholson. >Did I forget an absolutely stunning edition of the 1001 >Arabian Nights by Sir Richard Francis Burton and numerous >other works by the latter, including the 1898 Bengal Club >Library, Calcutta, copy of the latter's "The Jew, the >Gypsy and El Islam"? Yates, Crowley, Mathers, Machen, Yeatts, Regardie, Gurdjief??? Wow, Dennis, you just went up several notches in my estimation. Most ufologists don't know who these people are, much less have they read them! Yep, gives you a different perspective, don't it! Alf Laylah
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:47 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:31:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:20:14 GMT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Could someone explain what purpose this training serves? >Is it typical for a formation of about 8 A-10's to >synchronously drop flares? When would this be useful in >time of war? Roger, Ain't it obvious?? It would be to fool the enemy into thinking that a giant V-shaped UFO was flying over them! The video I saw of the Phoenix lights showed them flashing on and off in a varying sequence. My question: What sort of flare does this? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:59 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:31:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:00:40 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? Hey Don, If they DID drop parachute flares over Phoenix, wouldn't somebody have found some of those parachutes by now?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Another Dutch Crop Circle From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:40:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:32:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Dutch Crop Circle I just recieved notice of another Crop Circle in Holland. Pardon if this is a redundant article. Joel Henry Minnesota MUFON Message recieved: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:19:32 +0200 From: jpents@amazed.nl (J. P. Pents) Organization: Natural Healing Specialist To: jhenry@wavefront.com Subject: crop circle hooghalen the netherlands Hi Henry, We have seen a crop circle here in Holland. It had about 20 circles in a very complex pattern. We vissited the site today and it was realy amazing. the circles looked like: O 0 OO 0 0 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O well something like this. Altough it's a very poor description I hope you can see how complex it was. If you have some information about circles in the area, please mail me And of course I'll do the same thing. The circle was located about 3 km south of Assen (Dutch TT) Greetings Boris Pents ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:53:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:39:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 > Date: Sunday, July 27, 1997 10:41 PM > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:25:04 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Pathfinder Photo #81977 > Yes, it's an oddity but most likely caused by something in > the CCD camera imaging for that particular picture, noise > perhaps, or a bad CRC in transmission, which isn't > unheard of. > I've d/l over 30 megs of the Pathfinder pix in the last > 2 weeks. I used to be able to get into the plain directory > at http://mars.sgi.com/ops where all these photos > were, including ones that weren't even thumnailed or > made it onto the main public page...but they have now > put that directory off limits. The CCD camera has limits, > that's why you only see small squares stitched together > for mosaics. > Very few of the photos I got from the /ops directory > are what you would consider "high detailed resolution". > A large portion are very grainy, and the gamma is way > too dark in many, however I didn't see anything to > indicate some kind of "bait and switch" was going on > in the few days that I had access to the direct > (mirrored) picture folder. > Don Don, I do not personally know of a "bait & switch". The info I received was from other people who claimed that the photo was there and then dissappeared, then reappeared. I do know that I have a crystal clear (when compared to the version on the JPL site) photo that should be just as clear on the NASA site, if not even more so (in my oppinion). Why this photo is NOT as clear as the one I got from the CNN mirror site, I can not explain. It is merely food for thought as far as I am concerned. Thank You, Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:32:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:43:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting Hi Errol, hi All, I have written this post under a new heading. My reason for doing so has to do with accuracy, and to counter the latest airforce propaganda campain. 1. UFO- The object(s) that were videotaped (over) downtown Phoenix _were not_ 'flares'. We have video of the event, these things don't look like flares, and they didn't behave like flares. Therefore, it should rightfully be called an 'unknown' or, 'unidentified' flying object(s). 2. Mass Sighting- The many forgotten/ignored witnesses. The reason that this 'flare theory' has gotten any attention at all is because most people have dismissed or failed to take into consideration all of the local eyewitness testimony. THIS EVENT WAS WITNESSED BY HUNDREDS (maybe thousands) OF PEOPLE! The sightings took place over five (count em) major towns scattered clear across the state and all on the same night.(Paulden, Prescott, Phoenix, Tucson, and Kingman Arizona.) It's almost as if everyone suddenly started to pay attention only after the airforce offered its flare explanation. Why are the many witnesses being ignored and forgotten? 3. (I'll keep saying this until someone checks it out,) There was an eyewitness report from a commercial pilot! According to local Phoenix news reports (FOX affiliate channel 10) a commercial airline pilot (unidentified) radiod in to Phoenix tower that he had an 'unknown' overhead, he was calling in for instructions. According to the report, the tower informed the pilot that it had 'nothing on radar' in the pilots vicinity! This invaluable testimony from a highly skilled and trained observer has yet to be verified or checked out by ANY investigators!!! I am not now, nor have I ever at any time referred to the object that appeared and hovered over Phoenix as 'alien' or from 'outer space', that's not where I'm coming from at all. This case is a genuine mystery and deserves to be investigated in as timelt, competent and thoroughly objective and professional a way as it can be. MUFON? Fu*king useless! We have gotten _absolutely nothing_ that even remotely resembles an investigation from local MUFON. What we have gotten in this case is, (total inaction) from local or state officials, zip from MUFON and lame excuses and lies from the Airforce. Oh, excuse me, and an opportunistic attack on Dilletoso by Korf! Thanx for your contribution to the database and investigation of this case Kal.<evil sarcasm> MUFON in this case, has shown themselves to be inept and essentially useless as a 'research' and 'information gathering' or investigative tool. One of them, (MUFON field rep) in fact did nothing more than try to take credit for, (rip off) video that was taken by Tom King and his people. If I wasn't in NY I'd investigate this thing myself. And, I'd do a better job by just using my own common sense than MUFON could with 100 of their "MUFON field manual" trained Mickey Mouse "investigators." What this case desperately needs is an investigator who can find his own ass if you let him use both hands. It really wouldn't take much. There's a TON of raw material to work with here. Alleged ET proponenets, such as Richard Nostrahoagland have only served to muddy the water and lend an air of complete lunacy to this potentially important and major event. Again, thanx for _your_ useless contribution Richard. Governor Symington is too busy chuckling and dressing up his aids in costume to be of any use, and as for MUFON Arizona, I'll let the deafening silence that has emmenated from them about this case speak for itself. We all need to wipe the board clean. Let's start with the eyewitness testimony, the many videos that were taken during the event, let's track down that commercial pilot and see if he's willing to give testimony anonymously or otherwise, and then let's check out the airforce's 'flare' theory for 'plausability.' These are all things that could be done immediately. We'd have a ton of answers post haste. Is there anyone within earshot who, a. Has the research background, and is familiar with basic and accepted academic standards and requirements,... b. has the time,...and, c. the will and wherewithall to properly investigate this case? I already know the answer to that one! <HEE-HAW> The "real" investigative work has yet to begin on this case. An excellent example is the video. No one 'reputable' has performed an analysis! From the available video evidence it should be possible to determine size, shape, distances, altitude and whether there was any fakery involved in the making of the images. A spectrographic analysis of the lights themselves could be performed and it could be determined if there was anything unusual or out of the ordinary about its source. Maybe in ten years after the trail is stone cold and many of the original witnesses have moved or passed away (as is usual in 'ufology') someone will begin to look into it. "Is there anybody out there" (Pink Floyd, 'The Wall') John Velez, Still Waiting. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix "lights" From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 19:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:51:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix "lights" In a message dated 97-07-27 17:58:32 EDT, you wrote: > I might be barking up the wrong tree here since I am not sure if you are > the author of the piece about the flares being the explanation for the > March lights over Phoenix. But if you are, you are a funny guy. First, I'm not a guy. Second, I wasn't the author of the piece. Third, you ask: "Why did it take the Air Force FOUR MONTHS to come up with this explanation?" The Air Force didn't come up with the explanation. Can't you read? Don't bother me anymore. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:59:08 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:52:55 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:36:17 +0100 > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> > Subject: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number > If anyone can help David with this request can they reply > to him direct please: > ===================== > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:08:56 -0400 > From: Sandra Meret <smeret@yorku.ca > Organization: York University > To: john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk > Subject: Newsclippings > I was wondering if you had a phone number or any other info. that > would help me get in contact with the "UFO NewsClipping Service" in > Arkansas. It's on the website but they offer no contact info. I'm > producing a documentary and am in desperate need of news clippings. > Any Suggestions? > john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk > ufoinfo@digiserve.com ReClipping Service: Lucius Farish, Rte. 1 Box 220, Plumerville, AR 72127 501-354-2558. I understand that Barry Greenwood 617 438-5187 has Dr. Herbert Strentz's collection of 10,000 clippings used for his PhD Thesis in 1970- thru. l966. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:57:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:58 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At > By Scientists > >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:59:58 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Scientists > >The very small amount of unstable Ge (75) isotope found present is > >certainly perplexing, but that might point to something presently unknown > >to 20th-century chemistry... > >Jim Deardorff > Dear Jim: > Did it ever occur to you that it might also point to terrestrial error -- > either human or instrumental or both? Hello Dennis, Yes, sure; that's what the "might" in "might point to something presently unknown" allows for. But the "ET magic" possibility needs emphasis. Do we understand what causes some isotopes to be stable and others unstable? (Maybe there's a physical-chemist in our midst who can answer this.) If not, might not our science learn the answer in a few centuries, and then start learning how to manipulate this property? > There is at least one thing about the sample we can say with some degree of > certainty: apparently Roswellium 47 has a half-life of at least 50 years, > which should carry it (and any attached exotic isotopes) well into the next > century. What we don't need is ufologists trying to ridicule the findings of those sincere scientists who are courageous enough to analyze an alleged Roswell crashed-saucer fragment, one of whom was courageous enough to report on the preliminary findings. They face enough ridicule from the press and other colleagues as it is. Such ridicule inevitably finds its way into the heads of other scientists who may some day, hopefully not too many years from now, be reviewers of the paper that Russell VernonClark and other analysts intend to submit on the subject to a peer-reviewed scientific journal that other scientists are allowed to read (this may rule out JSE). Such reviewers are not selected like a jury on the basis of their ignorance of a subject, but by their general expertise, and IMO are all too often selected by the journal editor for being reviewers who will reflect the editor's own views as to the desired outcome of the paper. So if such a paper is ever to see print, we need to do what we can to overcome the curtain of ridicule that scientists of the CSICOP variety try to taint it with. Why add to it? Give the scientists who are working on the sample the benefit of the doubt at least until after you read their paper. Give Russell VernonClark the benefit of the doubt for not having wished to stay around for the press conference, after seeing what a media circus the Roswell event was, and realizing that it would upset his colleagues all the more if he attended. But give him kudos for giving out with the preliminary data on the sample, rather than keeping us all in the dark for another few years. It seems very likely to me that the analyst of the germanium 75 data realized its very short halflife and the perplexity this adds to the sample, and so probably already double-checked their findings on that. The presence of Ge 75 goes against the hoax hypothesis, since the hoaxer wouldn't wish to work with unstable isotopes or would know better than to feed it into his fabrication if he wished his hoax to look genuine. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Alfred's Odd Odd #161 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:56:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:59:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Odd #161 Apology to MW #161 (For July 28, 1997)=20 Guess what I might speak about, this primal motivator. An itch, best scratch it now; don't put it off 'til later. This itch, reviled, sells soft soap on lathered demonstrators. This itch well scratched can cure disease -- the best inoculator. A component of the ships that hover just beyond our sight -- It's hard to cop to pleasure that the probe digs up in spite. . . At bottom line imperative is DNA's respite. Procreation's interesting, efficacious, and all right. Every item of it, every sharp smell, every smidgen --=20 Is linked to what is powerful, so healing it's forbidden! It's a lie to think it evil as this makes you their glad pigeon! The practice is a _good_ thing, and that's an honest straight up given! Now practice with whom! This is where it gets hard. This kind of practice must be done with regard. It's only your self that's the best kind of bard. . . No disease, no mistrust, no unkind dis-regard. Get together and boogie, but do it at peril. Without real commitment you're over a barrel. People get mean and kindness goes sterile=20 Kids are produced, some are prone to go feral. Feelings get hurt and there are tears in sad eyes Other's are left out, and feel they could die. Too little of laughter, too easy to cry. There is more to mere process than most want to try. But kept to yourself no dues for the paying. . . There is only avoidance of physical decaying. Once folks could do it as a way to be praying! Left in those times I'd be hard pressed not staying <g>. The onus on process's this century's invention. Since then's what is sensible's lost in detention. And all of this based on a few inches extension Into wells of fertility -- a most healthy ascension. It's a shame that it's used to sell crass detergent! Our nads and our brains are then crafted convergent! Having found this all out, we could sure be insurgent, But our questions on process then informed and divergent. Lehmberg@snowhill.com As regards process, perhaps you have read where Neanderthal Man has had his DNA analyzed -- and surprise, surprise . . . he's _not_ family (US News & World Report -- July 21, 1997)! Now, if it is more true that, "they were a separate line that died off without interbreeding with humans," isn't it also more true, then, that proof _exists_ establishing two _unrelated_ hominid intelligences evolving on the same planet? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if _two_ kinds of sentience can occur on the _same_ planet . . . I shouldn't have to draw a picture -- then sentience may well litter the whole of the multiverse. This Alien View brought to you courtesy of Alan Dawson Graham. For my part, I am sure that in some gestalt enlightened time there will be statues erected ( no pun intended) to one of the true heros of the late 20th century, Dr. Jocelyn Elders. "No dear, we don't have to teach them about masturbation -- they already know about that. . ." --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for casting his pearls before swine. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:30:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:03:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:59 -0500 (CDT) >Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:37:02 -0400 >Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:05:20 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists >>Those who attended the July 4th presentation made by Paul Davids, Derrel >>Sims, and Russ VernonClark are aware that many questions were left >>unanswered. >Dear Steven: >Actually, _each and every_ question was left unanswered. >As you know if you were there, _there was no press >conference_ -- as advertized. Sims and party departed >through the back door of the Pearson Auditorium, hopped >into a waiting car, and sped away. Reportedly, Russell >VernonClark was flown out of the Roswell the same day. >Most of the media present to whom I talked considered >this -- how do we put it politely? -- "curious" behavior >for what had been widely billed as a 9:00 a.m. "press >conference" at which "Scientific Proof...that an >Extraterrestrial Craft was Recovered near Roswell, NM" >would be presented. >>From statements that have been made since the event, it is >>clear that VernonClark was only making an appearance because >>he was under an agreement to do so. >Well, that's some sort of behavior to be sure, but is >it necessarily_scientific_ behavior? I wouldn't charactorize their behavior as "scientific", to be sure. But even scientists can find themselves in legal agreements that they wish they could avoid. Paul David's decision to "hype" this event as a "News Conference" was one that I wouldn't have made if I had been in his shoes, but he must have had his reasons. He'll have to defend himself in regard to this action, but I'm not sure I would blame the scientist they brought into the debate. However, I'll admit that sneaking out the back door is not a good way to build trust. . . . <g> >>In private correspondence, he has indicated hope >>that a journal article on the "debris" should be completed within a year. >>At that time he, and the other un-named scientists, will be more prepared >>to defend their theories. >In most minds that would indicate that the so-called >"press conference" probably should have been put off >until at least then as well. Ordinarily, you >double-check and confirm your findings before going >public with them. Yes. Any press conference should have waited until the final paper had been written and all of the scientists were willing to come forward and be counted. Again, I think VernonClark had the confirmation of this findings that he needed to make his statement. However, that confirmation came from scientists and labs that didn't want to go public until the final paper was completed. >Here we seem to have gotten the press conference -- >that wasn't a press conference -- before the >proverbial horse, if not the straw cart itself. Is >it just me, or is this not normally the way good >science is done? I guess I'll have to ask if you really expected to get good "science" at Encounter '97. No, I don't think this is the way good science is done, but then again I wasn't expecting that much. When we have vendors on the street selling plastic eggs with alien faces drawn on them with a magic marker, one realizes that we must truly be on an alien world. . . . <g> On the other hand, I found the presentation provocative and will wait for the actual paper to be released to make a value judgement. It certainly hasn't been handled in a way that I would choose, but I'm not going to throw out the baby because the bath water is too dirty. > Can you imagine what would have >happened had NASA held a press conference, say, a >year _before_ Pathfinder landed in working order? >They'd be up to their armpits in Hoag Land. Of >course as far as Hoag Land is concerned, NASA would >be in over its eyebrows no matter what it did, short >of appointing His Hairness CEO. I suspect that the >Roswell fragment press conference -- that wasn't a >press conference -- took place where and when it did >precisely because of terrestrial isotopic ratios >having something to do with the number of cameras >and microphones present in a given room at the same >time. Interesting that you should bring up the Pathfinder . . .<g> There seems to be quite a debate in some other groups questioning whether or not the rover is really on Mars. But that's another issue. There's really no way to resolve this question until the paper is written or VernonClark agrees to come foward and provide the names of others that have confirmed his results. We can debate the manner in which it was handled, but it won't change the test results, and this public debate is the reason that most scientists would rather keep their mouths shut than announce preliminary findings. But those findings, should they be confirmed, will generate a major discussion in many areas on this matter. Even without confirmation of where the "debris" came from, I would think the volumn of the discussion will likely be higher than we recently saw with the "Mars Rock". If they aren't confirmed, we'll see the issue die down and the credibility of those responsible will be impacted appropriately. >Mind, Steven, none of the above is directed at you >personally. I just hopped on your post with an early >press release. Direct any potentially discomfiting >questions to my agent...aka the Duke of Mendoza, and >_his_ agent, Aleister Crowley, and _his_ agent before >him. Please be assured that my comments are directed only at the issues, and not at the personalities involved. If there are any questions that come to mind, I will forward them to the appropriate office. Steve PS- What's your stance on the Phoenix Lights issue. The Maryland National Guard would seem to be supportive of the most recent article on the subject in the MUFON Journal, but several news reporters weren't convinced that flares were the cause.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:50:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Bursting the Balloon, Pflock (2) > >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > In which the Pflockian DeBunking finger having writ moves on: > > However... > > In a 7/90 video-taped interview with Haut conducted by Fred > > Whiting for the Fund for UFO Reseach, Whiting asked Haut if he > ...snippety snip snip...Volumes and volumes of well expressed counterpoint to Karl's missives removed... > I'm also waiting for even one AAF document that states that Roswell > base > was involved in the recovery of a Top Secret balloon. The GAO > certainly > couldn't find it. In the triplicate-mad military, nobody at > Roswell, Fort > Worth, Wright Field, or the Pentagon seems to have bothered writing > one piece > of paper related > to the incident. That demands a PLAUSIBLE explanation. At least > one > report, if not many, should have been written. Where are they? > > -- KARL deBUNKER > Well, at least he got that part right. > David Rudiak I must thank you for the great effort you have expended in your rebuttals to Karl Pflock. I have found the same faults in Karl's grammatical and linguistic skills. Still, I must take the bold move and ask you: "Why bother???" In an honest discourse, each side is able to acknowledge a few points of the other side, using them to modify some of their own positions while together both parties stumble towards some reasonable approximation of the truth of their subject. In an honest discourse, each side has the potential of realizing flaws in their own arguments and then clarifying them by their own effort. In an honest discourse, each side knows that some of their positions are poorly supported by the available evidence and acknowledge them as speculative. In the few months since joining this list, I have seen Karl issue these positions on Jesse Marcel a few times. He brings them forth as ritual. He sees only his interpretation of the syntax and speech patterns used by Marcel. He makes no allowances for the foibles of a reminiscent talk. I am sure that none of the views and information that you have spent much time to express will be seen in his next broadcast of these events. So, again I ask "Why Bother???" Perhaps you found entertainment and amusement in your efforts. If so, I shout "Carry on!!!" For myself, I feel a little guilty for not having more to offer in this post. I have found Karl's interpretations of these events even as he has described them to be shallow, limiting, and self serving. Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: EL & LITS: - Reply to Devereux.3 From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:52:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:08:38 -0400 Subject: Re: EL & LITS: - Reply to Devereux.3 >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: EL & LITS: Reply to Cohen >Alas, he was a only a year away from >his death. Had he lived, and therefore been acquainted with the >recent research, I think he may have been able to persuade at >least some strands of American ufology away from its increasing >rush into the ETH-and-nothing-but-the-ETH abyss. >JERRY'S FAVE RAVE CASES >(HAVE MERCY ON MY SOUL...) >Finally, Jerry, you say: > >>Looking forward to your eventual comments on SKYTHING 1960 & >>Exeter and how they relate to your theories. You mentioned in >>a note to me that you don't have the time to comment on these >>specific cases and how your theories relate to them. This is >>certainly unfortunate for the reasons mentioned above. > >>Again, those addresses are: >>Exeter 1/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-010.shtml >>Exeter 2/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-008.shtml >>SKYTHING 1960 is archived at: >>http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.2.html > >Jerry, I do assure you that my lack of time is no empty excuse >- I write at least two books a year (just try it, babe), > JC: Forgive me but professionally I have to say this; I'm not your "babe." This researcher has made an honest reporting, performed years of research which he has freely posted for perusal by others; selected a "grouping of cases because they were solidly researched by the major studies which were performed over the years (i.e. Blue Book, Condon Study or both); and believes many of the cases therein do not conform to the explanations most skeptics have given. When someone comes along, such as yourself, doesn't have time to look at this research, which is simply important, basic UFO history, but makes pronouncements claiming all or most UFO sightings can be explained through his research, this researcher has a serious bone to pick with that person(s). It is not so much the time I spent gathering it that bothers me, but rather, the ignoring of related, verifiable historical facts and data. >TV shows, write articles and columns, lecture internationally, >conduct practical, serious studies on topics like lucid dreaming, >and do weeks and even months of fieldwork research concerning >earth lights and, wearing my other hat, ancient sites. I commute >transatlantically. Yet even so, I do manage to keep abreast of >this list, contribute to it occasionally, and, as now, sometimes >take a great deal of time answering your postings, Jerry. So do >please show a little mercy. > JC: Someone as busy as you wouldn't have answered my post if I hadn't raised good, solid questions that could possibly affect people's thinking in regard to the application of your study to UFOs. I called your thinking into question with the readers. Examining individual cases to see if they really fit your "theory" is obviously a very important step in the process. A scientist who ignores this important step is taking an Ostrich's view of the world. One can't simply pick easy cases and ignore the "thorny" ones. If "Skything" and "Exeter" do not really fit your "theory," your hypothesis isn't as pat as you think it is. As I said in an earlier post, if you do not have time to check these things (and I certainly can understand your busy schedule) that doesn't mean they shouldn't be checked. But, it does mean you may not be the person to make complete, accurate judgments regarding the application of your findings to UFOs, if you are missing important data relating to same. Others will most certainly do this for you. It is important to realize that your judgments may not be as comprehensive as you would like them to be either, considering the time constraints you obviously have. >As for the Exter thingy, yes <wearily> I'll try to get to read >it sometime. But let us say I take it on, let's say I spend time >and money researching it in depth (just reading it won't do much >good, will it?), let's just say I find an answer that is not >supportive of whatever your beliefs in it are (you are clearly >touting it as you think it will scupper the earth lights approach), > JC: I have no wish to "scupper the earth lights approach." You are putting words in my mouth. What I am trying to do is to keep you from generalizing about a topic that has been proven to be in dire need of an individualized case by case inspection. >what then? Won't someone else, if not you, come up with another >reported case and say, to the effect, "OK, try this one for size, >then."? H'mm? And wouldn't that just go on and on? Be honest now. > JC: Ah, so you are saying that once you have proposed a generalized theory, we really don't have to test it against what is reported. Hmmmn! Interesting scientific thinking. I wonder how all the rest of the scientists will view this? >This belief that there is *the* case that will prove the ETH case >once and for all if only, if only, if only... (and everyone has >their pet candidate, it seems) is not well founded, in my opinion. >After 50 years of it not happening, I think the chances are that >it won't. For my money, we have to do a lot more *strategic* thinking >than we currently are, to complement individual case studies. >We spend so much of our time so close to the trees that we spend >too little time standing back to look at the state of the forest >it is in. And that brings me on to.... > >LET'S MEND IT -- IT *IS* BROKEN ....snip.... >We need to swallow hard, accept much of ETHism is what we emotionally >want to be true, > JC: You have assumed something here that is not true. I do not want this to be true. I am accurately reporting something I have seen and I am providing research regarding important things that have occurred in Ufology during the past 30 years that tend to support what I am saying. It is a question of what I have personally observed and then researched; no more, no less. >....snip.... Whatever you feel, say or believe, Jerry, the last >50 years in ufology have not been a very inspiring overall display >of human intellectual achievement (which is not to denigrate some >excellent work by a lot of people). > JC: And some pretty shoddy work as well. Yes, and to find out whose fault this really is, and since Paul as he's indicated probably won't have time to read this next part, other interested readers please feel free to see any of the following. It is all thoroughly checkable research with more than adequate sources given. (Oh yes, and although Paul doesn't realize it yet, I have already encouraged everyone who reads it to use the library to cross check the material presented therein; microfilms, etc.) http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.3a.html J. Allen Hynek, from skeptic to believer / comments by Walter Webb [434] <2/6/97> http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.4a.html UFOs, a synopsis of an extremely relevant history / Condon Report [398] <2/6/97> http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.5a.html Hynek takes us inside "Project Bluebook" and reveals its deficiencies (Ltr to Col. Sleeper) [447] <2/6/97> http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.7b.html a third Condon/Bluebook case, reinvestigated by Dr. James McDonald: "Kirtland AFB" (11/4/57) [206] <2/6/97> http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.7c.html Kirtland conclusion / Bluebook & Condon Study errors / McDonald's credentials / How this all relates to Cooper's claims [355] <2/6/97> Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen P.S. Anyone that disagrees with any material I have posted at the addresses above is welcome to email me or the list in this regards.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: EL & LITS: Reply to Devereux.2 From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:52:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:08:51 -0400 Subject: Re: EL & LITS: Reply to Devereux.2 >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: EL & LITS: Reply to Cohen >But there's a more compelling reason than Hynek's old opinion >for supposing daylight discs to be potentially the same phenomenon >as nocturnal LITS - and, the beauty of it is, *it is not anecdotal*. > JC: It wasn't Hynek's opinion, it was his analysis. Remember, he did a lot of first-hand investigating of cases. And, you are absolutely right. Your compelling reason is not anecdotal...it is "supposition" on your part; i.e. a hypothesis. (To get rid of what you feel are those "inaccurate, imperfect" human observations.) And, by the way, it is not beautiful; it is simply a neat way of avoiding dealing with UFO reports on a "case by case" basis, which most UFO researchers have realized is absolutely necessary to properly examine the UFO phenomenon. > It revolves around the general assumption that ELs are some form >of plasma. > JC: And, I have no disagreement with you here. It makes sense to me that ELs could be some form of plasma. >This has now been well supported by the 1994 work of You-Suo Zou >(of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics in Beijing's Academy of >Sciences, and an associate of the Department of Meteorology at >the University of Utah). He made a close study of the original >Project Hessdalen's collected data, and he noted photographs >of light traces which revealed a corkscrew-like effect - a 7 Hz >pulsation. (A visual example of this should appear in my forthcoming >*Fortean Times* piece.) > JC: Again, you have no problem with me here. Basically, I believe you are saying the earth's rotation, gravity and forces within the plasma itself might cause the plasma to turn, perhaps corkscrew, not unlike a miniature tornado of sorts. Perhaps at varied speeds (7 Hz or whatever) depending upon the forces involved in each particular incident? To me this is not illogical. >....snip.... > >Now, let us turn to one of four often-asked critical questions >concerning earth lights and UFOs (and here I excerpt directly >from the forthcoming *Fortean Times* artcile): > >Question: What have earth lights to do with "daylight disks"? >Answer: If earth lights are a form of plasma, then there is no >problem with this, because a plasma seen in daylight does happen >to look shiny and metallic, and is likely to have a spherical, >ovoid or discoid form. > JC: Yes, we could have a possible explanation for _some_ UFO daylight sightings, but most certainly, not all as the close-up detail evidenced in some of the carefully investigated cases precludes coming to this conclusion. See the Kirtland AFB case below to see what I mean. The case was investigated by Project Blue Book; by the University of Colorado Study; and then reinvestigated by Professor James McDonald (University of Arizona) who discovered how shoddy those investigations really were, managing to came up with the two major CAA control tower witnesses, who no one in either major study bothered to look up and question. Their descriptions and McDonald's analysis says it all. http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.7b.html In any event, to make progress towards your conclusion (however right or wrong it is) a scientist must first solidly prove that earth lights _are_ "a form of plasma." Also, what I personally saw was at helicopter height and was a virtually totally silent, distinct "craft" with fairly evenly spaced rotating lights going around its middle. What I saw wasn't just a light or a glow. When it first came overhead, I thought it was an airplane with its engines lit very brightly. When it "settled in" I could see it was a distinct craft, not just a light/glow or shape. If there was even the slightest doubt in my mind as to what I saw, I would not have spent the last 30 years performing the research I did regarding UFO history and facts. The sighting completely blew me away. BTW, perhaps one could check records and see if there was any seismic activity on Long Island in 1967/68. We don't usually have a lot here. > >Moreover, there are pitch black objects >sometime seen by day (both Erling Strand - director of the new >Project Hessdalen - and I have witnessed examples of these ourselves) >which seem to be photon-absorbing instead of light-emitting. These >bizarre phenomena - which can be round, square or irregular in >form - may relate to earth lights in the way one pole of a magnet >relates to the other. > JC: Hmmmn, "black holes" of light. But, I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. What is being attracted or repelled? >I have seen one of these appear, move along >at treetop height, then disappear instantaneously in full sight, >then re-appear a distance further on, then shoot off into the >sun glare. > JC: It would make sense that you are trying to catch one of these photon-absorbing entities on film. Obviously there must be some filters one could try that could eventually capture it. If your eyes could see it, the film should as well. Also, it is extremely important to note you did say "may relate to earth lights." This is a supposition on your part that still needs to be proven before it can be accepted as fact. Solid, repeatable proof must be offered for any hypothesis to become a solid "fact." The thing that bothers me is _how_ a "square" shape would be attained. Exactly what forces would come into play to create a perfect square? This bothers me and I think one would have a right to ask for this to be reproduced in a laboratory or proved mathematically before one accepts this particular shape as having been created by plasma-gravitational-rotational forces. It definitely seems to me to be stretching your theory a bit unless it is proven and demonstrated as fact. I think there might be a lot of other people who would agree with me (including scientists), and not just on this mail list. >RADAR VISUALS >Let's look at three other often-asked questions (usually delivered >in terms of criticism), the answers to which I think you will >see potentially account for the additional 7 percent of other >sightings in Hynek's breakdown as well - radar visuals and radar >observations. (Again, I excerpt for the forthcoming *Fortean Times* >piece): > >Question: What about the size usually ascribed to flying saucers? >Small balls of plasma, seen as lights or even as apparent metallic >forms can't account for those, surely? >Answer: Some earth lights are reported as being many yards across. >A modest example of this was shown in the Quebec case (1988) - > JC: You're not referring to the March 30, 1990 NATO Belgium sightings are you? We had discussed this previously. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BTW, what is the definition of "plasma" that you are using? I would assume it is similar to the second one below. My Reader's Digest Encyclopedic dictionary gives a couple of definitions that I think may possibly apply: 5. Physics a The region in a gas-discharge tube in which there are approximately equal numbers of positive ions and electrons b any gas composed of such particles Plasma jet: Physics A beam of plasma ejected from a specially constructed generator that utilizes the pinch effect in forming a brilliantly luminous jet of extremely high energy and temperature. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > the size, height and duration of some of these phenomena were >clearly "UFO standard". The lights at Hessdalen ranged up to even >larger sizes. And lights seen at night, accounting for a huge >percentage of all UFO reports, can look large if bright enough >- their size is easy to overestimate. > JC: There are some people who have claimed they have flown immediately over their head and a rather decent number of people have made the similar estimates. (Exeter, N.H. for one. Please see addresses below) >Question: How do earth lights explain radar-visual cases? >Answer: It has in fact been proven that plasmas can return radar >echoes. Indeed, even plasmas that have too low a temperature to >emit visible light can still reflect radar waves just like a metal >surface (Zou, 1994). During the first Project Hessdalen, radar >echoes were repeatedly obtained from invisible objects hovering >near ridges. > JC: And how did we prove these "invisible objects" were earth lights? (Just a brief description would suffice.) >(During the earlier correspondence on this list, I was challenged >to explain how a UFO - a green lightball - could 'ping', as reported >by the pilot, when it apparently struck an airliner landing at >Mexico City's international airport, if it was "only" an earth >light. To which my answer is simple: the aircraft was made of >metal - how do you know it was the lightball that pinged? A metallic >object like a plane striking a charged object like a plasma might >well give off an impact sound. > JC: ** Are you saying the plasma is magnetic or static electric? ** Also, I didn't make that challenge but an important word to remember is "might." Again, we do have to prove it. I'm sure something of this sort could be tested in a lab. I noted that scientists have produced plasmas in the lab. By having one collide with something metal, you'd might get your true answer. I'm personally open to this "possibility" in this instance but I'd have to see it proven before I take it as gospel. >As a footnote to this, I note that >on 1 July, they had to close runways in Mexico City airport because >of ash spewed out by the volcano Popocatapetl 45 miles away. The >volcano grows increasingly more dangerous, and I have already >linked the geological/tectonic upheavals occasioned by that to >the upsurge of UFO reports in Mexico. I suggest the genuine >phenomena >observed - and possibly filmed in some cases - are earth light >phenomena produced by the extraordinary energies churning in that >part of the Earth's crust we call Mexico. [I have identified other >purported UFOs on the Mexican videotapes as kites, car headlights >descending the steep and solitary hills in the Valley of Mexico, >helium balloons, etc. What is singularly lacking are co-ordinated >twin video - or stills - shots of the Mexican phenomena, which >would allow calculation of distance and size, and a surer idea >of motion. Single-shot videocam images remain poor evidence of >UFOs.] There is a major disaster pending in that region in my >opinion.) > JC: If co-ordinated twin videos don't exist now, they most certainly would help. Perhaps we'll get lucky and someone will get them. I thought I read something about this existing relating to the Walter's Florida case, but I could be mistaken here. >As for Hynek's close encounter categories, Types I and II present >no problems as per the above, > JC: CLOSE ENCOUNTER OF THE FIRST KIND says: "....the UFO is in the observer's own frame of reference and he is able to see details." If the details involve a textured skin on the "craft," portholes, etc., then I would think there is a big problem with easily dismissing this particular type sighting. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE SECOND TYPE: At the time of Hynek's writing, Mr. Ted Phillips had catalogued over 800 physical-trace UFO cases. I think it would certainly behoove us to examine these cases in relationship to any "physical-traces" left by "proven" earth lights. If they are similar, all well and good, but if they differ, we again have a "problem." Until this is done, we are not making use of all the data in our possession. >and both Persinger and I have elsewhere >explained how the stranger cases, where genuine and the result >of accurate perception, could be accounted for within an energy >model rather than an ET model. (Even though Persinger's work is >slammed a lot by some ufological critics, some of it is practical >work in this particular area of concern and far less anecdotal >than anything put forward in support of the ETH.) > JC: Somehow, I don't think this will impress the people in either the Exeter case or many cases where people have had really closeup sightings. I have to admit, it doesn't really impress me either. Persinger is basically saying I and others hallucinated their sightings and I'm telling you this researcher doesn't smoke, drink, take drugs (except the medical variety when prescribed by a doctor) or hallucinate in general. And I don't live near a power station or an abundance of high-tension electrical lines. What I saw was a definite craft, and nothing like I've ever seen before or since; and I haven't ever stopped looking every day of my life since then. >....snip.... >HYNEK >A word about Hynek and ELs. He heard my early case for earth >lights in 1983, and found it interesting. Then, in 1985, he visited >Hessdalen, and came away convinced that "we have something very >important for ufology here". JC: But exactly what, that is the question. BTW, I wasn't aware of this. Is this documented somewhere or just a piece of anecdotal evidence?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:52:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:09:22 -0400 Subject: Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:36:51 -0400 >Subject: EL & LITS: Reply to Cohen >>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:47:04 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: EL/TST (Repost to correct links) > JC: Hello Paul. Just returned from a short vacation and found your post. Thought I'd respond. The post is a bit long but I'm trying to respond to your points. You and I wrote: >Dear Jerry, Dear List, > >....snip.... > >>REVISED BLUE BOOK STATISTICS: > >>The following quotes from: Hynek, J. Allen, *The Hynek UFO Report*, >>Chapt. 11 "The Air Force Numbers Game", Dell Publishing Co, Inc., >>1977 > >>TABLE 11.5 -- Types of Revised Unknowns >>Type Number % of Unknowns >>Nocturnal Lights................243................38% >>Daylight Discs..................271................42 >>Radar-Visual.....................29.................5 >>Radar............................10.................2 >>CEI..............................46.................7 >>CEII.............................33.................5 >>CEIII.............................8.................1 > >>JC: What is extremely surprising here is the great number of >>Daylight Disc cases reported. These cases, from Blue Book files >>alone, and neglecting the wealth of information from the civilian >>UFO organizations around the world, involve many hundreds of >>witnesses,the majority of them with Air Force or some other >>technical >>background (sometimes scientific). It is rather surprising that >>Nocturnal Lights do not lead the list, as they do in most other >> studies... <snip> > JC: Paul ... minor correction re the data I sent. There was originally no ">> JC:" on the paragraph above. Those weren't my words; they were Dr. Hynek's. >....snip.... > >KNOWING THE LITERATURE >US publishers, viewing American ufologists >as a market, see an almost total immersion in literalist beliefs >(ie. versions of the ETH). > JC: So you're saying that there is virtually no literature in the U.S. that challenges the Extraterrestrial hypothesis? This is not exactly correct. This literature existed for years and the news media usually always "poo-pooed" the whole thing and usually refused to take the ET'ers side. >....snip.... Even if something alternative, let alone critical, >of the gawdalmighty ETH *does* get out, it is slammed as "debunking" >by the ETH faithful, and the proponents come under a barrage of >attacks, as we see time and again on this list. > JC: History shows that evidence has mounted over the years that has edged people's thinking in this direction. I more than adequately demonstrated that in my reply to James Oberg entitled "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7" This researcher for the most part has basically offered some solid historical facts and questions that differ with statements you made to others and myself. >Wide-ranging discussion is not tolerated, it seems. > JC: If "Wide-ranging discussion" was not tolerated, your views would not have been printed at all; but obviously... this is not the case. You have never been prevented from posting your views on this mailing list. As a matter of fact, they were most welcome. However, when you post something, this does not mean the list has to agree with everything you have said. If anyone disagreed with you, say in an illogical way, other intelligent readers are quite capable of seeing this for themselves. However, the reverse is certainly true as well. It was up to you to correct anything you disagreed with. Whose logic makes the most sense is up to the readers to decide. (And there are some distinguished readers who peruse this list.) >(The irony is the ETHers >act as if those with other views somehow have to disprove the >ETH first, when in fact the ETH isn't proven in the first place!) >There is simply the *assumption* that the ETH is the right answer, >and anything else is incorrect, deliberately misleading, or concocted >by nitwits. > JC: I don't know exactly where you got the "nitwit" part but, and what you said is quite a generalization, but obviously they disagree with the solidity of some of the data you provided to this list and how you applied it to UFOs. >I have already pointed out to you that mainstream >ufology everywhere, and nowhere more strongly than in the USA, >lives in a cultural bubble - I have termed it a kind of Salem >of the mind. > >JC: Yes, _you_ have termed it as this. Unfortunately, the part of the "bubble" I live in is a "hop, skip and a jump" away from Exeter, N.H. Some people there ...and here have had some experiences which "color" our thinking a little. People deal with what they are closest to and have enough direct access to; to confirm or deny a particular claim for themselves. Obviously, it is much more difficult to solidly verify or deny something over a long distance. >....snip.... > I was trying to >explain that if you are inside that conceptual, cultural Salem >bubble, it is extraordinarily difficult for you to perceive it. > JC: You are assuming a lot. This researcher knows a lot more about the history of this whole thing than you give him credit for. It wasn't always as you depict it. I know exactly what has been and is on our television and in the media for the last couple of years. Our news media has records on virtually any topic dating back years. When a person dies, they come up with a biography on him in a day. What has actually happened is that the ET'ers have come up with information which has blown away some newscaster's negativism regarding the UFO topic. They most certainly were not quick to jump on this bandwagon. And as far as perception goes, I didn't have any trouble personally "perceiving" it in 1967. Nor did several other people I met since that time have trouble perceiving their own sightings. >Anyway, that's the reason earth lights books aren't readily available >in the States: like it or not, ufologists in America are censored >in their reading by market forces. > JC: That may, or may not, be true. But please continue. >However, if you are not Joe Bloggs, ufologist-in-the-street, but >a *researcher*, as you and so many on this list claim to be, Jerry, >then you make the effort to seek out the literature to expand >your viewpoint, and to inform yourself of the knowledge base from >which some outsider like me comes. > JC: I agree with you here. We _all_ should be expanding our viewpoint & knowledge base. But, hold it. Let me get this straight. Your knowledge base is so complete, you can tell me what I observed, even though what you are saying is not accurate to what I saw and you weren't here to see it? Quite an interesting viewpoint. >Otherwise, you hold your peace. > JC: Paul, I am as entitled to make my points as you are yours. >In an earlier posting, you asked if I could scan *Earth Lights >Revelation* for you, presumably thinking it was merely an article. >Well, it is in fact an 85K-word book, with pretty colour pictures >of earth lights and other features, and so you really will have >to stir your stumps and go down to a library. If they don't have >it (unlikely they will) then you can order it on inter-library >loan. They will be able to get it for you. The book's ISBN is >0-7137-2209-6. It was published by Blandford Press, an imprint >of Cassell, in London in 1989 and 1990, and distributed by Sterling >Publishing in NYC. > JC: Thank you for finally posting this information. It would have helped if you gave it earlier on. We had asked for it awhile back but you neglected to include it for whatever reason. I wasn't looking for you to scan in the whole book; just some parts to fill the holes in the information you were using to arrive at your conclusions re _ALL_ UFOs. I felt there were big gaps. I was trying to help you help yourself. I most certainly will obtain your book now. By the way, you don't have to search as far to find my information. It's right here on the net with full references. I've given it several times and it's only a click away. From your end, it hasn't been taken advantage of either. BTW, those references I gave demonstrate quite adequately that I've made more than "a few" trips to the library and do so on a regular basis. I don't know why you think I haven't. Perhaps it's because you are guilty of that which you accuse me; you haven't read my research. >The book is a little out of date now (as so >much has happened in earth lights research in the last 8 years >or so), but it nevertheless remains the most comprehensive single >volume ever produced on the subject, and should be enough to make >you understand that, whether you agree or disagree with my viewpoint, > I do not come onto this list just shooting off loose opinions >through the back of my head (or any other part of my anatomy). > JC: If you thought I wanted the entire thing scanned in, that was an unfortunate misinterpretation on your part. I only asked you for specific information to back up the specific things you were saying. At the time, you failed to provide it. But please remember, I never once said that earth lights may not be a plausible phenomenon. I challenged the validity of some of the data (you provided us with) and how you were applying that data to UFOs. >....snip.... > >LITS, DISCS AND ELs >Right. So now you have ways and means to better inform yourself >on this topic. Interim, let's look at the matter you raise in >your latest posting. I'll stand by my claim that most UFO reports >relate to lights seen in the sky - I'll expand on that, if you >like, to lights seen often but not always, in the night sky. > JC: Mine was a daylight sighting. >Naturally, the first thing in looking at a UFO report is to ensure >that we are not dealing with some kind of confusion between an >actual sighting (eg. a set of lights in the night sky) and witness >*interpretation* of that sighting (eg. the lights are on a huge, >dark craft). Reports can all too often be interpretations. How >many "structured craft" fall into this category, I wonder? > JC: Not mine. I got a minimum of a 3-4 minute look at it at helicopter height, and it wasn't just "lights" and it wasn't dark. >What >people say they see, and more often *think* they see, is not always >by any means what they *do* actually see. (As one minor example >of this, I have seen people at the Marfa Lights lookout point >in Texas run screaming back into their vehicles because they >think a Marfa light is rushing towards them, when in fact it is >simply a car's headlights flashing momentarily as it crests a >particular rise on the Marfa-Presidio road about 20-30 miles away >across Mitchell Flat...) > JC: Yes, as we all know, _some_ people might be fooled and do this. >Dr. Hynek never said any different concerning nocturnal light sightings. However, I've thought about my own sighting long and hard for 30 years. It was the spur to all my research. I believe I found enough to indicate to others that I probably saw the real thing and that Gordon Cooper was probably telling the truth regarding his UFO claims. >On the specific matter of the percentage of LITS in UFO reports, >you yourself, Jerry, admit that most studies give the biggest >percentage to LITS, and that is certainly what I see in ongoing >UFO reports in the UFO small press literature. > JC: Not in Hynek's revised study of Blue Book's 20 year history. >However, in the particular block of data you have selected, let us >see just what we have: > >Nocturnal Lights................243................38% >Daylight Discs..................271................42 >Radar-Visual.....................29.................5 >Radar............................10.................2 > >I would argue that, *potentially*, earth lights could account >for *any* and all of these four categories, giving us 87 percent. > JC: Yes, giving "you" a "possible" 87 percent. >"How can this be?" I hear you you wail. > JC: Please Paul, I haven't "wailed" in quite some time, but I'm listening; or rather...reading. :-) >Well, let us deal with the top two first. May I quote Hynek back to >you? "It could be that Nocturnal Lights observed in the daytime >would appear as Daylight Discs -- we don't know. But >*observationally* the distinction is useful." (My emphasis.) So that >could mean that LITS, therefore potentially ELs, could theoretically >account for 80 percent in the data block you are citing. > JC: Yes, exactly; you "don't know" if Nocturnal Lights observed in the daytime would appear as Daylight Discs, or what details the witnesses saw in their "daylight sighting" unless you look closely at each case specifically on a one-by-one basis. There is a country-mile's difference between "theoretically accounting for" and "actually accounting for" in fact. "Potentially" accounting for is different that "actually accounting for."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Moon theory From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:04:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:10:04 -0400 Subject: Moon theory Anybody who has ever read Zacharia Stitchin's books might recognize this............. New evidence supports theory on moon's creation July 28, 1997 Web posted at: 11:45 a.m. EDT (1545 GMT) DENVER (CNN) -- Scientists at the University of Colorado have found new evidence supporting a theory which says that the moon was born of a collision between the Earth and a planet three times larger than Mars. Astrophysicist Robin Canup is to present her theory on the moon's birth at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Cambridge, Massachusetts, this week. The "giant impact" theory is not new. In fact, it was developed in the 1970s and was advanced in the late 1980s. But the main problem with the theory was that there wouldn't have been enough material to create Earth's moon. Canup and her colleagues did some new calculations and determined that the collision was much bigger than previously thought. The scientists say they found that the collision was so big that some of Earth's surface vaporized. Computer modeling indicates that a "protoplanet" bumbling about the sun between Earth and Mars was the attacker. Material from Earth's surface and mantle spewed into an orbit around Earth. Canup said the material spread into a gaseous disk that whirled around Earth until it formed several small hot moonlets. They gradually coalesced into the moon. The scientists say the new results emphasize the major role that chance events play in the history of the solar system. Theories abound about where in the universe Earth's moon originated, including that it was traveling through space and was captured by Earth's gravity. An analysis of moon rocks returned to Earth during the U.S. Apollo space program missions has led to general acceptance that the moon is a chip off Earth's shoulder.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Magonia has moved From: Mark Pilkington <markp@SYZYGY.CO.UK> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:16:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:40:40 -0400 Subject: Magonia has moved Magonia online has ascended to a higher level. Join us at: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk - update your links and bookmarks... - tell your friends and aliens Coming soon: New, old articles from Peter Brookesmith, Martin Kottmeyer & more All new pictures, back issue index, site index, stuff. Check it out or the Grey gets it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 28 Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:37:20 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:52:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting <updates@globalserve.net> writes: >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:32:20 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting >Hi Errol, hi All, >I have written this post under a new heading. My reason for >doing so has to do with accuracy, and to counter the latest >airforce propaganda campain. >1. UFO- The object(s) that were videotaped (over) downtown >Phoenix _were not_ 'flares'. We have video of the event, these >things don't look like flares, and they didn't behave like >flares. Therefore, it should rightfully be called an 'unknown' >or, 'unidentified' flying object(s). Having just watched ALL the extra footage Fox had, I have to say... What ARE you people thinking!!?? The 'lights' I saw are OBVIOUSLY flares. The come on slowly, in sequesnce, then go OUT in sequence. There is NO evidence of ANYTHING between to lights to indicate that there is a 'craft' there. And I'll ALSO say this: I DO believe there are aliens, and alien craft, visiting earth. I do NOT believe, however, that every unusual light in the sky IS an alien craft. The Gulf Breeze pix I saw are pretty obviously hoaxes, several are NOT more than 18 inches across (the ones behind the tree), as can easily be noticed by any proficient photographer. Others appear to be small hot air balloons, others are doctored photographs. If we ARE to find out the truth, we HAVE to concentrate on the incidents that do NOT look like hoaxes, or flares, or that otherwise can be at least semi-credibly be explained. The are plenty of GOOD unexplained, and so far, unexplainable, incidents to work on. Gulf Breeze and Phoenix are NOT part of that group. Roswell, Long Island, the Space Shuttle 'ice' incident, and Brussels WOULD, in my opinion, fall into the group that should be worked on. OK, go ahead, DUMP on me. I'm within millimeters of dropping ALL reading on UFOs, due to the rediculous assertions of some people. :(
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 06:03:42 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:59 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:00:40 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Hey Don, >If they DID drop parachute flares over Phoenix, wouldn't >somebody have found some of those parachutes by now?? >Bob Bob, perhaps the Air Force WAS dropping parachute flares over Phoenix. Maybe they even used the same parachutes that they used for the experiments with the test dummies that people later confused with alien bodies. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:13:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:13:01 -0400 Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:05:13 UT From: "Steve Bassett" <Paradigm_Research_Group@msn.com> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Moon theory From: werd@interlog.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:58:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon theory >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:04:47 -0600 >From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net, skywatch@wic.net >Subject: Moon theory >Anybody who has ever read Zacharia Stitchin's books might recognize >this............. > New evidence supports theory on moon's creation >July 28, 1997 >Web posted at: 11:45 a.m. EDT (1545 GMT) [Big snip] There was also an article recently published in one of the Toronto newspapers where they are now talking seriously about the poles of the Earth being reversed by a cataclysmic near-miss by a very large object. This was proposed by Velikovsky decades ago and scoffed at by the scientific community. I'll post it when I find it. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 UFOs and Professional Associations From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:45:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:41:09 -0400 Subject: UFOs and Professional Associations UFOs And Professional Associations As I was reading Karl Pflock's latest vociferous attack on Col. Philip J. Corso I was wondering what could motivate such bitter emnity. A friend of mine was in the Army in Vietnam at the same time one of his uncles was there in the Air Force. They met, quite by accident, a couple of times during their tours of 1969-70. In talking shop it was obvious that to the Air Force man the real enemy in Vietnam was not the Viet Cong but -- the NAVY! Everyone in the Air Force knew that! Now reflecting on that I wondered if this might be at the root of Pflock's attacks. I thought that this might certainly be worth considering as one reads the latest diatribe against Corso by parties whose previous professional associations are interesting, to say the least. Everyone might not know that all the across the bureaucratic spectrum of our Federal Goverment and military there exist bitter rivalries, between and among the Army, Navy, Air Force and the various "intel- ligence agencies." For the regular military, much "intelligence activity" is looked down upon, or even ridiculed, as amateurish piddling in the ashes. Throw in the fact that back in the 1950s the CIA was the private preserve of the preppy graduates of the Ivy League and you have an explosive mixture indeed. With this as background we might consider the recent heavy attacks by former CIA man Karl Pflock (although one wonders if anyone other than Victor Marchetti can truly be said to be a former agent of that agency) (see page 60 of Rayomd Fowler's CASEBOOK OF A UFO INVESTIGATOR) upon the new book by retired Army Colonel Philip J. Corso, THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL. You see, Corso's opinion of the CIA could hardly be any lower. On page 37 of his new book Corso says that at the time he went onto General Trudeau's staff (1961) ". . .there were enemies all around us, in the intelligence services. . .cadres. . .working for the Soviet Union by carrying out policies devised inside the KGB." Could it be any plainer? Corso was worried about keeping the Roswell technology from the Soviets, and on page 48 says that if he was very careful, ". . .it [the Roswell secrets] would be in the system before the CIA could stow it where no one would find it except the very people we were trying to hide it from." You see, there is no love lost among many in the uniformed military for the CIA and its minions. And, you know, it could be that for many in the Agency, the feeling is mutual. I think one has to be wary of letting Pflock's emotionalism bias one against reading what Corso has to say and certainly not allow Pflock's attack to disuade one from at least considering Corso's viewpoint. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Earth Lights - Objections From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:01:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:42:57 -0400 Subject: Earth Lights - Objections In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to being unconvinced - and not because of being a die-hard ETH proponent (which I am not), but because of dissatisfaction with what I know about the hypothesis. 1) Energy requirements: We have cases from Vallee (Confrontations, ISBN 0-345-36501-1, p23-35) a) claiming energy output in the visible spectrum of 2.3MW for approx 5-10 mins, disappearing for half an hour, reappearing at the same location where it disappeared, and then producing the same energy output for another 5 mins before flying away to the west; b) claiming energy output of 15KW; c) claiming energy output of between 160KW and 5MW; d) claiming energy output of 500MW. Obviously, these energy output levels are significant. How could this be sustained by an object given an initial impulse of energy and thereafter unable to take on new energy (i.e. an object without an internal power source)? How could such an object be dark for an extended period and reappear? Other sightings, such as the 11/7/90 case over Montreal, last for extended periods (that observation was for over 2 hours). How could such large energy outputs be sustained for such periods? 2) Source and sink: We have objects entering and leaving the oceans, but these represent a relatively tiny percentage of the total. A few cases show a UFO landing and then disappearing while on the ground without an observed departure. Most UFOs come from the sky and return to the sky. Yet an earthlights hypothesis would seem to me to require a high statistical frequency of objects emerging from the ground and returning to the ground to disappear, a frequency which is not present in the data. 3) Movement: UFOs exhibit significant manuverability and movement across extended portions of the sky for extended periods of time. Why should a plasma demonstrate such movement? One possibility is to follow a course to ground, as with ball lightning. What would make earthlights behave differently from BL? BL has been demonstrated fairly well in the great Klass debates to be insufficient as an explanation for UFOs IMO. Wouldn't the movement of a plasma require the release of energy in addition to that required to sustain ionization and generate light output, thus exacerbating the problem in (1)? 3) Dark objects: An energetic plasma is always going to emit some sort of light. Yet many UFOs are dark in color (Loch Raven Dam case, for instance). Plasmas are also at least semi-transparent due to density. Yet close sightings reveal none of the transparency which might be expected. 4) Solidity: Trace cases (such as Trans-en-Province, Socorro, Quaroble) demonstrate solidity by showing through the depth of the trace the weight of the object. In these cases, the weights have been on the order of tons. Why should a plasma have such a weight? How large would an atmospheric plasma have to be to attain such weight? Is there any reason to believe that an atmospheric plasma could exceed the density of air? Other cases demonstrate solidity by physical contact (California, 1974 (see Paul Hill, Unconventional Flying Objects, ISBN 1-57174-027-9) P 38) as in striking the object with a flashlight or bullets, and, of course, there are cases where the UFO has been touched with bare flesh. Interestingly, there have been contact cases (bare flesh) without the immediate burns and radiation effects which one would invariably expect from a plasma. 5) Occupants and interiors: Occupants have been seen to be within and without UFOs. How can these be consistent with earthlights? Hallucination is not an acceptable answer, lacking specific and demonstrable proof in realistic settings (outdoors, at a distance greater than 150 feet). 6) Correlation with faults: It is not a question of whether sightings can correlate with faults (and some earlier posts have indicated that these correlations are loose in any case), but even if tight correlations exist, could they be due to chance? After all, the presence of faults in almost every area of the earth is well known. Thus one would expect sightings to happen near faults, whether or not UFOs are earthlights. The fact that areas like France and the Northeast US have numbers of sightings though tectonically inactive, while areas like Japan do not have orders of magnitude larger numbers of sightings, would seem to be another factor against acceptance of earthlights as an explanation for UFOs. (Vallee did this type of test for orthoteny - have the earthlights advocates done it?) I have no wish to reignite a debate which has obviously occurred before, but the above seems compelling to me. Why should earthlights be considered even a possible explanation of ANY UFOs? ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Northampton, UK, Conference From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:58:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:46:08 -0400 Subject: Northampton, UK, Conference Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre 5th ANNUAL NORTHAMPTON UFO CONFERENCE FIFTY YEARS ON SATURDAY 9th AUGUST 1997 10am until approx 6pm Friends Meeting House Wellington Street, Northampton Admission =9C5 (tickets at the door) This year sees the fiftieth anniversary of the first reports in the modern study of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs). The NUFORC conference this year will look at many different aspects from around the world over this period. Come and meet some of the leading researchers from around the UK. Provisional programme includes Stan Conway (BUFORA) - The Israeli UFO Wave Philip Walton (ASSAP) - Paranormal : Fact or Fiction Robert Bull (BUFORA) - Men In Black Richard Conway - What They Don't Want You to Know Max Burns - RAF in UFO Encounter Steve Gamble (NUFORC) - Fifty Years of Reports The venue is in the town centre off Abington Street (by the side of Marks and Spencer). Approximately 150 yards from the bus and coach station. About half a mile from Northampton railway station (services to/from London Euston and Rugby/Birmingham) All day car parks are close by. (Town centre three miles from Junction 15, M1). For further details about the conference or NUFORC write to : NUFORC, 38 Portland Road, Rushden, Northamptonshire, NN10 0DJ. (Whilst it is not anticipated there will be changes, the organisers reserve the right to alter the programme, details or cancel the event if necessary)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Question for Kevin Randle From: meccam@erols.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:54:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:33:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:38 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > >From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] > >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:41:29 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Kevin Randle > You seem to have misinterpreted what I said completely, and > gotten really hostile in the process. I was sarcastic because I get tired of people slamming the phenomenon of abduction - general public, yeah well. UFO-fascinated folks, why? After reading 100s of cases, hearing the surprising "conversion of belief" of my friend the psychiatrist with his 6 cases, reading books by abductees, listening to them at conferences, and by now having spoken in person to at least 15 or 20 experiencers, I'm convinced it's happening and that there is enough physical evidence and witness testimony available to make any open-minded person (and there are some, surprisingly) tend to believe it. If there are a few misguided fakers out there, so what? Further, I'd say one discounts it at one's peril - its an ostrich syndrome. > I am not saying that the abduction phenomenon does not exist, > nor am I saying that it is 100% subjective. I'm simply saying > that to insist that the beings involved in the phenomenon are > "aliens" from space is a very simplistic interpretation. Not necessarily - may be the truth! Don't assume that everyone, experiencers included, is closed-minded to other energies and other realms. A segment of the interpretive literature, articles, books, and posts seems to be threatened by the ET aspect and is more comforted by interpreting these accounts as non-identical but apparently similar to tales and myths about fairies, demons, etc. Fairies and leprechauns may exist - don't know, I've never encountered them. However, what I see happening all the time is people merging two separate concepts: 1) point of origin of the visitors - ET or not and 2) multidimensional energies and powers. The view goes something like this - because these beings can disappear, walk through walls, and use mind control, they have to be ONLY multidimensional with no 3-D reality, because we are 3-D and we can't do that. This interpretation is based on insufficient familiarity with the multitude of energies making up our existence. There are human beings who could/can leave their body and project themselves elsewhere, appear as a body of light, use telepathy, be clairvoyant, heal others from a distance, create 3-D objects, levitate, etc. etc. Our species as a whole has not developed these powers in any systematic way, but any species is, I presume, evolving over time - we may get there yet! In terms of their origin, fairies don't need spacecraft, according to my knowledge of myth and legend. It seems to me the explanation that best fits the evidence is that we are encountering beings that are 1) not from here originally - did not evolve here, even if the stories about their occupation of underground or undersea bases are true; AND 2) are evolved to the point that they can perform the marvelous feats we hear about. > These things have been abducting, contacting, and interacting > with humans since before written history, and have presented > themselves to us in forms which we could accept into the mythology > of the times. Timeline - can't verify, tend to think you are correct. However, don't think you can assume that their policies are "I shall appear this century as a unicorn as it fits their mythology." Wouldn't it be more likely that the mythology grew up around experiences, some of them energy-related, possibly some of them ET-related? > Today space aliens fit our mythology, so that's how > we see them. In the past we saw them as trolls, elves, fairies, > leprechauns, demons, sprites, gods, etc. etc. etc. Probably not the same "them" in most cases - I think your classifications are too broad. BTW, the demonic aspect is also a concept that is not tied to any particular form. Evil energies exist per se, apart from whatever being is allied with them. > I just don't think we have any compelling reason to accept that > we are dealing with space aliens, any more than that we are dealing > with the king of elfland. Disagree. > We should admit that we don't know what they are or where/when they > come from. And we must be willing to admit that the experiences > have subjective as well as objective aspects. Exact planetary origin, no we don't, and most experiencer's accounts don't include a revelation of where they are from. "Experiences have subjective as well as objective aspects" - that's redundant - an essential property of an experience is that a person (or other sentient being) is involved, the person is conscious, therefore the event is interpreted through that consciousness. However, humans are remarkably similar - the abduction experience has a high degree of correlation despite the culture of origin. If you read the accounts from people of other cultures, what does it matter if the name the person gives to the form is "Oompah Loompah" instead of "grey?" We should look instead at the objects they draw, the descriptions of the beings appearance, the descriptions of the inside of the craft/s, similarities in behavior of the abductors, and so on. > The one thing which comes down to us from the past and from our > accumulated folklore is a simple and important message: They can > not be trusted. Whatever they say they are, wherever they say > they are from, why they say they are here; these are things that > it is very dangerous to take their word for. "They" seem to be a collection of many different species/races. Probably some can be trusted ("friend") and some can't ("foe") - waters are deep, many fish, swim carefully with a flashlight and a spear! Now we're onto a line of inquiry that is truly interesting and important - why are they here, what are their purposes, what should we do, how should we think about them, what are the implications for our self-concepts as a species, what are the implications for our future, what do their powers tell us about our potential, etc. etc. No matter how difficult those answers may be to formulate based on the evidence we have, I think that is our most fruitful line of pursuit, assumptions and all, if we really want to learn something that could be useful, even critical, to our survival and evolution. Otherwise it's just academics arguing with each other about facts or the lack of them, of no consequence - let's concentrate on the paydirt if we can, get out our shovels and dig! Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:21:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:59:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:37:20 EDT > > >Having just watched ALL the extra footage Fox had, I have to say... > >What ARE you people thinking!!?? > >The 'lights' I saw are OBVIOUSLY flares. The come on slowly, in >sequesnce, then go OUT in sequence. There is NO evidence of ANYTHING >between to lights to indicate that there is a 'craft' there. Perhaps you should read the latest issue of the MUFON Journal, which has an article in support of the "flare theory", but certainly shows greater research than shown above. To rely on a television program that provided so little detail as an information source, is similar to looking at the pictures on the front page of the paper and reading the headlines to get all your news. There are multiple videos that show the flares going out at different times, and in different sequences. The MUFON investigator indicates this is because they drop below mountain ranges in the distance and the sequence changes depending on which peak happens to be in the way. The "flare explanation" does nothing to explain the number of sightings that occured along a line that passes through Phoenix, since the flares are alleged to remain stationary because of their special parachutes that capture the heat and keep them aloft (or slowly floating downward). As far as the craft between the lights is concerned, none of the video evidence released so far has shown such a craft, but several witnesses have allegedly indicated that they saw something. Of course that's annecdotal, but I believe that's the reason for the statement. To be honest, most of the people I've spoken to don't believe the lights in the video shown on the program look like flares, but that a personal interpretation based on experience. >And I'll ALSO say this: I DO believe there are aliens, and alien craft, >visiting earth. I do NOT believe, however, that every unusual light in >the sky IS an alien craft. The Gulf Breeze pix I saw are pretty >obviously hoaxes, several are NOT more than 18 inches across (the ones >behind the tree), as can easily be noticed by any proficient >photographer. Others appear to be small hot air balloons, others are >doctored photographs. Again, I would suggest that you provide a better line of argument to support your contention about the Gulf Breeze photos, but your skeptical view is a good one. MUFON and other groups have found that they identify most of the sightings brought to them. >If we ARE to find out the truth, we HAVE to concentrate on the incidents >that do NOT look like hoaxes, or flares, or that otherwise can be at >least semi-credibly be explained. The are plenty of GOOD unexplained, >and so far, unexplainable, incidents to work on. Gulf Breeze and Phoenix >are NOT part of that group. Roswell, Long Island, the Space Shuttle >'ice' incident, and Brussels WOULD, in my opinion, fall into the group >that should be worked on. In the Gulf Breeze photos that show a shadow from the object on the trees across the water, which wasn't shown on the program because it would take too much time to explain, the object not only can be measured in size, but it's position over the water can be determined. Do you think that Ed Walters has the ability to fake that type of shot? But I would certainly agree that there are many other good areas of investigation. So much to do, and so little money. Expertise does not come cheap. >OK, go ahead, DUMP on me. I'm within millimeters of dropping ALL >reading on UFOs, due to the rediculous assertions of some people. > >:( I hate to see anyone leave the debate, but do what you must. This was not intended as a personal attack, but more as a counterpoint to the issues raised. I don't know if these sightings are extraterrestrial or not, but a lot more research has gone into them than was shown in the program last night and to base conclusions on it would be a disservice to those who have worked hard to investigate them. Peace, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Atlantis when? From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:21:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:52:08 -0400 Subject: Atlantis when? What happened to the press conference about the latest discovery of Atlantis? It was meant to be on Friday. Anyone heard anything?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Moon theory From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:22:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:53:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon theory >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:04:47 -0600 >From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net, skywatch@wic.net >Subject: Moon theory > There was also an article recently published in one of the Toronto > newspapers where they are now talking seriously about the poles of the > Earth being reversed by a cataclysmic near-miss by a very large object. > This was proposed by Velikovsky decades ago and scoffed at by the > scientific community. >=20 > I'll post it when I find it. >=20 > Drew Williamson A friend of mine, Alan Graham, says it best when he says. . . "3. Immanuel Velikovski . . . yeah, I hear some of your internal dialogue, you're wrong -- shut up. I asked four of my Ph.D. college professors (hard sciences -- astronomy, chemistry, physics) what they thought of I.V.. Two said he was a great thinker ahead of his time, and two said he was crazy. When questioned further, which two, do you suppose, had never read his books? Guess wrong, and it almost time for "American Gladiators."=20 Here are the two main I.V. bunkies": a. Those that never read, but repeat some tired, old taken-out-of-context -- strange sounding -- nearly impossible to prove or disprove item that *someone else* told them about. . . or . . . b. The worst type, the CSICOP boys that have a big axe to grind for maintaining the status quo to stay on the funding tit. Their reaction to his book is the most repugnant because they know better. When the Catholics persecuted Galilao at least they rationalized God as the excuse. All the CSICOP boys have is a lack of desire to rethink their own work, and a manufactured unreasonable embarrassment at being caught wrong." . . .I think that about says it. Lehmberg@snowhill.com --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for going in the direction of the evidence =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:44:03 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:43:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By Scientists >Give Russell VernonClark the benefit of the doubt for not having wished to >stay around for the press conference, after seeing what a media circus the >Roswell event was, and realizing that it would upset his colleagues all >the more if he attended. >Jim Deardorff Dear Jim: Part of the reason _why_ it was a media circus was precisely because whoever was behind the "press conference" _made_ it a media circus. Every reporter who checked into the Convention Center for a press pass -- some 300 from 15 countries -- found the following "Media Alert" from the PR firm of Abrams-Rubaloff & Lawrence in their press kit: SCIENTIFIC PROOF TO BE PRESENTED THAT AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT WAS RECOVERED NEAR ROSWELL, NM "ROSWELL, NM (June 30, 1997) - A press conference scheduled for 9: a.m. July 4, 1997, at the Pearson Auditorium on the New Mexico Military Institute Campus in Roswell, New Mexico, will present the results of _scientific tests performed on crash debris found near Roswell, New Mexico, fifty years ago that once and for all prove that the downed vehicle was not of earth origin_. [Emphasis in the original.] "A research scientist from a major university involved in the testing will be on hand to discuss the methodology and results of the isotopic ratio tests of the Roswell debris. Supporting conclusions and a battery of tests conducted by universities and national laboratories will be provided that conclude that the Roswell debris is _manufactured material of extraterrestrial origin_. [Emphasis in the original.] "The discovery that crash debris has been privately held in civilian hands was made by television producer Chris Wyatt, former Producer of Day & Date. Mr. Wyatt uncovered the material while producing the upcoming television special, UFO's [sic] Above & Beyond. 'This could be the greatest discovery of our time,' notes Wyatt. "Paul Davids, Executive Producer of the Showtime film, 'Roswell,' is sponsoring the presentation of this evidence during his program at [sic] 50th Anniversary. Along with images of the actual Roswell crash debris, the chain of evidence will also be presented validating the Roswell incident as the recovery of a crashed extraterrestrial vehicle." The whole presentation was an attempt to take advantage of the assembled media, orchestrated by A-R&L, probably at the behest of Mr. Wyatt (someone had to pay for their services, after all), and probably as advance publicity for his forthcoming video -- which, I predict, will extol the reality of the Sims fragment to the highest heavens, in an effort to sell videos and make money. I repeat: A-R&L _created_ the media circus, and they did it under false pretenses. _No press conference was held, nor was one ever intended_. Derrell Sims, Roger Leir, Chris Wyatt and Russell VernonClark were all whisked out the back door of the auditorium and into a waiting car, while the press had been told that the press conference would follow the presentation, and would be held in the lobby in the front of the building. (To their credit, Paul Davids and Jesse Marcel, Jr. did face the press.) This was the way it was planned from the start, and this is the way it was orchestrated and carried out. No press conference was ever intended. I've stood on my head several times since in an effort to put a polite spin on this event, but the only thing I can come up with is that it was a blatant attempt to manipulate the media present and _to avoid_ all questions, despite the promises made in the "media alert" that, for example, the "research scientist" would be "on hand to discuss [his] methodology and results." Nor was any "chain of evidence" presented that would tie the small fragment, an inch and a quarter wide and which looks like a rock, to either 1947 or Roswell, only a statement by Sims that the anonymous individual who gave it to him _said_ it came from Roswell. I'd've been much more impressed with VernonClark's "courage" if he had stuck around long enough to answer a few questions, as previously promised and advertized. _None_ of the above, I should add, necessarily reflects on the ultimate nature of the fragment itself of course. However, I should point out that at least one other previous "Roswell" sample turned out to be a jeweller's cast-off. I think the fragment may indeed turn out to be "manufactured" in outer space. For all I know, it may be some kind of tektite or something similar. In other words, it could indeed be "manufactured," but that wouldn't necessarily mean it was made by alien minds. Nor would it necessarily mean that it was found near Roswell, New Mexico, in the year 1947. I eagerly await the published paper. In the meantime, whoever perpetrated the original "press conference" has a considerable backlog of questions to answer. If you want to see what VernonClark himself has to say about the fragment between appearances on the Art Bell Show, try: http://www-chem.ucsd.edu/~ruvernon/Odds.n.ends/Analysis/talk Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:50:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau In a message dated 97-07-25 21:55:33 EDT, you write: > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:09 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau (To Die) <Brevity Snip> > Which reminds me, there's another prominent man who's name and > reputation Corso is exploiting, the conveniently late Lt. Gen. > Arthur Trudeau. As Dennis Stacy has put it, the book really > should be called WAITING FOR TRUDEAU (TO DIE). Maybe that's > what the foreword-less paperback edition or the movie will be > called. Who knows in the next edition of the book we may find a new forward written by Lt. Gen Arthur Trudeau -- posthumously. Of course if this happened Corso will have a long elaborate tale about how his buddy Arthur wrote the forward on his death bed, sort of like Bob Woodward and his claimed interview with Bill Casey on his death bed. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:55:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Hello List, Russell VernonClark has updated his website statement regarding the isotopic analysis of the alleged Roswell crashed-UFO sample. ( http://www-chem.ucsd.edu/~ruvernon/Odds.n.ends/Analysis/talk ) Regarding the previously reported, anomalous & radioactive Ge 75 in the sample, it now seems probable it was merely a misidentification of arsenic having the same atomic number, with there being nothing anomalous about the small amount of arsenic then found, as it is the stable, non-radioactive form. (So you're right, Dennis, I needn't have allowed for any ET magic here.) The other highly anomalous isotopic ratios found by both instruments still stand, however. The problem seems to be that the (SIMS) mass spectrometer simply gives out with atomic numbers, to within a certain number of decimal places of accuracy, and it is up to the analyst to decide what isotope of what element comes closest to matching the values received (they aren't whole numbers, except for carbon-12, by definition). With the data in question, the SIMS analyst must have received a value for the atomic number like 74.92xx to ponder over, and then had to decide if it had been arsenic (As) at 74.9216 or radioactive Ge at 74.9229 (which for simplicity is written Ge 75). The value given out by SIMS may have been slightly closer to Ge 75's value than to that of As 75, and so Ge 75 was initially chosen. But the standard error of measurement perhaps allows either. In that case, As 75 should have been selected, on the basis of being non-radioactive. According to Russell, this is what they're now investigating -- the nitty-gritty of instrumental error analysis. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 29 Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:04:41 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:56:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:37:20 EDT > >The 'lights' I saw are OBVIOUSLY flares. The come on slowly, in >sequesnce, then go OUT in sequence. There is NO evidence of ANYTHING >between to lights to indicate that there is a 'craft' there. Then how do you explain these flares remaining stationary, and not falling as if attached to parachutes? Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: Earth Lights - Objections From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:33:25 CST Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:04:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth Lights - Objections > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Earthlights objections > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:01:22 -0700 > In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to being > unconvinced - and not because of being a die-hard ETH proponent > (which I am not), but because of dissatisfaction with what I know > about the hypothesis. > 1) Energy requirements: We have cases from Vallee (Confrontations, > 2) Source and sink: We have objects entering and leaving the oceans, > 3) Movement: UFOs exhibit significant manuverability and movement > 3) Dark objects: An energetic plasma is always going to emit some > 4) Solidity: Trace cases (such as Trans-en-Province, Socorro, Quaroble) > 5) Occupants and interiors: Occupants have been seen to be within and > 6) Correlation with faults: It is not a question of whether sightings can > I have no wish to reignite a debate which has obviously occurred before, > but the above seems compelling to me. Why should earthlights be considered > even a possible explanation of ANY UFOs? They shouldn't. But you've gone and done it now! Heathen! Now Paul and Peter will have to respond in some obtuse way again. Rats. Chris Rutkowski Editor and Communications Technology Coordinator Public Affairs Department University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 voice: (204) 474-6454 e-mail: Chris_Rutkowski@umanitoba.ca fax: (204) 261-6034
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 'Phoenix Lights' over Gila Bend From: "white" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:48:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:15:11 -0400 Subject: 'Phoenix Lights' over Gila Bend Nat. Guard explanation of flares 60 miles south of Phoenix on Mar. 13 easy to check. Just go down to Gila Bend (60 miles south of Phoenix) and ask someone drinking coffee at the Space Age Lodge (yeah, that's right) if they saw the flares that nite or if they were on "duty" the nite the Maryland Nat. Guard Hogs were on maneuvers. Yeppers. And while you're at it, take the road south from Gila Bend to Ajo some Spring nite and park about 40 miles down and watch the military playing rock and roll with the big toys. LOTS of FLARES. Only problem I have is that I see lots of "military" flares where I live---on the west side of the Goldwater Range---and the Phoenix pictures I saw don't look at all like what I see on a regular basis.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:17:20 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: 28 Jul 97 09:25:40 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Yates, Crowley, Mathers, Machen, Yeatts, Regardie, Gurdjief??? > Wow, Dennis, you just went up several notches in my > estimation. Most ufologists don't know who these people are, > much less have they read them! > Yep, gives you a different perspective, don't it! > Alf Laylah I sure hope you're wrong! Most of the people I know who are trying to get to the root of the UFO phenomenon, and all other unusual phenomena would consider books like these almost required reading. There are, of course, many others, including Manly P. Hall, Annie Besant, Alice Bailey, and modern writers such as Elisabeth Haich, D. Scott Rogo, J.H. Brennan, William R. Corliss, Joel Whitton, Ostrander and Schroeder, Lyall Watson, Jess Stearn, Stan Grof, Michael Talbot, etc. etc. etc. And of course, they don't just stop there, either. There is also required reading in quantum physics, astronomy, conspiracy, psychiatry, philosophy, sociology, cosmology, ancient history, archeology, geology, chmistry, mathematics, sacred geometry, theology, secret doctrine, etc., etc., etc. We've all realized that the answers to UFO's can't be found by just focusing on UFO books. The phenomena appears to be very related to phenomena in many other fields of study. As such, the study requires an inter-disciplinary approach. Then again, we don't really consider ourselves as "ufologists" either! These types of labels only help to restrict the focus. John K.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Stan Friedman on Jeffrey..Part 1 of 3 From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:52:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:20:04 -0400 Subject: Stan Friedman on Jeffrey..Part 1 of 3 Stanton Friedman asked me to pass this on to the List. Please respond directly to Stan and/or this List as you feel the need, NOT me. While I agree with most his comments, they are his not mine. Dave Vetterick ========================================================= July 21, 1997 Kent Jeffrey and Roswell By Stanton T. Friedman Kent Jeffrey's anti-Roswell conclusions (MUFON Journal, June, 1997) are based on the same kind of false reasoning that led to his pro-Roswell views: Don't bother me with the facts, my mind's made up; be enthusiastic and ready to put ones money where ones mouth is, but don't have the facts in hand first; don't bother finding out how security works; believe what one wants to believe. Do one's research by proclamation rather than investigation. Select from the data available to back up your conclusions, and ignore the facts that don't. Kent stated on a recent radio show with me that he has never had a security clearance and his article certainly shows over and over again that he doesn't understand: that higher classification info cannot be presented in lower classification documents; that having a particular level clearance is not enough to gain access to classified information; that one must have a need-to-know for that information; that people with high level security clearance do not pass on classified information to people not having a clearance and need-to-know for the information. Kent decided the Santilli footage was fraudulent because of the curled phone cord. I asked if he had checked with the phone company. He said he didn't need to. He knew there were no curled cords in 1947. He was wrong. The patent was granted in 1937 and production began in 1938. I tried to keep him from wasting big money on attorneys because no evidence had been presented that Frank Kaufman had played any roll in intelligence in 1947 (he was a civilian clerk on the base) or needed legal counsel. Kent didn't need any evidence because he and his father had a good visit with Frank. So he wasted thousands of dollars. I tried to get him to understand that it was ridiculous to jump from talking about events in New Mexico in July, 1947 to demanding the president declassify everything learned about ETs since 1947 which might, of course, include technology of great importance from a military viewpoint. I didn't sign the Roswell Initiative because I do not believe technical data (defensive or offensive) should be put on the table for the Saddam Husseins of the world. Remember that one can't tell one's friends without telling one's enemies. Kent can't seem to understand the utter foolishness of his comment that information about ETs is "knowledge of profound importance to which we are all entitled". Important? Certainly. But why does he think we are all entitled? There is an annual black budget of $30 Billion. Our elected representatives obviously believe there is a great deal of information to which we are not entitled. Other foolish nonsense includes "The existence of a crashed alien spacecraft would have been much more of a social and scientific issue than a national security issue." Is there no understanding that the government was confronted with a vehicle having exotic flight capability (clearly potentially useful for weapons delivery, for defense, for reconnaissance) whose origin wasn't known, whose purpose wasn't known, and whose technology would be useful, not only to the US, but to our enemies? What weapons did the aliens have? Would aliens work with our enemies? would they be attacking Earth? These are major security issues. Kent hardly mentions the security level of the many documents to which he refers, and which he proclaims would have certainly told about a crashed saucer. He acts as if he has seen all the relevant documents, and as though all members of the advisory board would have had a need-to-know for compartmentalized information. Only one document, as it happens, was TOP SECRET and it dealt with "Analysis of Incidents", not analysis of wreckage; two very different areas of technological investigation. I have been to 17 Archives now. At none of them did I have access to Special Compartmented Information rated, for example, TOP SECRET/UMBRA or ULTRA, or MAJIC. W.B. Smith, in a 1950 TOP SECRET memo said the matter of flying saucers was the most classified subject in the USA, even more than the H-bomb. And Kent thinks we are all entitled to know all about them !!! Kent talked to 3 former officers of the FTD, none of whom were at Wright Pat in 1947. He insults them by saying if they had known anything highly classified about crashed saucers, they would have told him (no clearance and no need to know) what they knew. The very reason they might have been so kind to him is that they wanted to be sure to dissuade someone so naive that there was anything. Furthermore, I have several times been inside a vault at FTD when I was a project engineer on a contract with them for Aerojet General Nucleonics. It was a very compartmentalized place. The primary focus at FTD was paperwork from foreign scientists, spies, and intelligence analysts. I have trouble believing it was ever FTD's job to go from analyzing wreckage to developing new technology. The U-2, Stealth, SR-71, and a myriad of other technologies were devised by industry under contract to major CIA, USAF, NAVY, or Army groups, NOT at FTD. General Arthur Exon told me in person that he did NOT have a need to know for all the activities at WPAFB even when he was base commander in the mid 60's. We cannot even be certain that the three officers would have been told about events and wreckage brought there more than a decade earlier. Their concern was the here and the now, the near future, and enemy (not alien) technology. It would have been much more likely to ship wreckage to a highly classified facility such as Area 51 (supposedly established in the late 1940s), or a part of Los Alamos or Sandia. With the very successful Manhattan Project as a shining example, it seems most likely that a Special Project would have been established outside the US Air Force, Navy, or Army.... let's call it Operation Majestic 12. ============Continued in part 2 of 3==================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Stan Friedman on Jeffrey....Part 2 of 3 From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:59:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:06:08 -0400 Subject: Stan Friedman on Jeffrey....Part 2 of 3 Kent Jeffrey and Roswell By Stanton T. Friedman Part 2 of 3 Kent talks about conversations with B-29 pilots. Why would they have had a need to know for info about crashed saucers? That wouldn't help them be better bomber pilots. Again he insults them by saying that if they knew or had known anything beyond what was in the papers they would have told him. I should mention I attended the 50th anniversary reunion of the 509th in Wendover, Utah and another reunion in Roswell, and talked with loads of people from the 509th. I was also very impressed with the men of the 509th. Kent proclaims, "The most significant and dramatic event in recorded history would surely have been discussed by these men". Security doesn't work this way. In the first place, no need to know. In the second place, if they did know they would have known better than to talk to anybody. Remember that Jesse Marcel was in Intelligence; Cavitt and Rickett were in the Counter Intelligence Corps. None were pilots. Kent denigrates Pappy Henderson. I spoke with his wife, with his daughter, with his son, with his world War 2 Bombardier. He told none of these people before seeing a newspaper article about the crash after 1980. He did tell his good friend, Dentist John Kromsohroeder, before the article appeared, but with his promise on his honor as a former naval officer, he wouldn�t talk about it. John didn't talk until after the Unsolved Mysteries broadcast which included Sappho Henderson. Pappy, after all, was entrusted with flying VIP�s over the harbor in the Pacific after nuclear weapons were detonated there during Operation Crossroads in 1946. Kent rattles on about the high reliability of today's aircraft engines implying that alien spacecraft would be much more reliable. One would think the only reason an airplane could crash was engine failure. Yet Kent himself tells of an MD-88 that crashed because the flaps weren't set properly. The Valujet and TWA 800 crashes didn't occur because there was engine failure, but apparently because of unexpected events having nothing to do with engine reliability. Landing gear have collapsed on airplanes. I hate to remind Kent, a professional pilot, that occasionally pilots make errors too. Sometimes birds are ingested into engines; no fault of the engine. Kent states the craft must be capable of interstellar flight. Why? There are many reports of huge mother ships carrying smaller saucers. Fighters attacking North Vietnam didn't fly there directly from the USA on each mission. Many flew from aircraft carriers located near the front. Kent acts as though the debris found by Mac Brazel must have been all there was. There have been aircraft accidents where an engine was found many miles from the fuselage. I am convinced, partly from the Eisenhower briefing, as delineated in �TOP SECRET/MAJIC�, that alien bodies (NOT time shifted crash test dummies) and other wreckage from inside the craft, were found just a few miles from the debris field. Kent complains about nothing exotic being found because he apparently thinks he knows all about alien spacecraft construction. One of the things that Jesse Marcel senior impressed upon me in 1978 was the LACK of anything conventional. Kent doesn't know, for example, what the outer hull (skin?) of an alien vehicle would look like. How could indestructible material be spread out? By an incredible explosion induced by a lightning bolt dumping a huge amount of energy into a magnetoaerodynamic propulsion system. The steel left after the Oklahoma city bombing was still very strong even though broken. A radar beam known to be on could have disrupted a propulsion or guidance system causing a collision. After all 40% of the UFO sightings in the summer of 1947, according to Bloecher, involved more than one vehicle. There is ample evidence that another vehicle went down in the Plains of San Augustin, as described in �Crash at Corona�, having a gash in the outer hull like two parentheses face to face. This is ignored totally by Kent and others who, for whatever reason, do not want it to be true. Jesse Marcel spoke to Walter Haut about a piece of the very strong lightweight metal being rested on a rock with the other end on the ground. A sledgehammer was applied with no dent; hardly paper backed foil radar reflector easily torn by a 4 year old. And do you REALLY believe you couldn�t dent a paper-backed foil lying on the ground using a sledgehammer at will ????? One of the worst things about Kent's article is that it employs tunnel vision. What about the testimony of Bill Brazel, who found strange wreckage himself? Of Judd Roberts the radio station man? Of Elizabeth Tulk and Phyllis McGuire the sheriff's daughters? Of Loretta Procter, of other ranchers? I spoke with all of these in April. What about all the testimony relating to the Plains of San Augustine crash and the easy proof that the NSA and CIA are withholding UFO related information. Why does Kent act as though flying disc and UFO mean the same thing? My lecture is Flying Saucers are Real, NOT UFOs are real because only some UFOs are flying saucers, though all flying saucers are UFOs. ====================Continued in Part 3 of 3======================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Stan Friedman on Jeffrey...Part 3 of 3 From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:04:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:08:16 -0400 Subject: Stan Friedman on Jeffrey...Part 3 of 3 Kent Jeffrey and Roswell By Stanton T. Friedman Part 3 of 3 He acts as though the US government would never lie. When the Trinity Site nuclear explosion occurred in July, 1945, a cover story was issued saying an ammunition dump had blown up, but fortunately, no one was injured. During WWII elaborate disinformation schemes were used to misdirect enemy activity. Yes, Virginia, governments do lie, and yes, the US government has recovered two crashed alien saucers in New Mexico in July 1947 complete with bodies, as described in �Crash at Corona� in spite of the attacks of noisy negativists. Kent blindly accepts the current stories from Cavitt and Newton although they completely contradict earlier stories told by them long before Roswell became a big deal. Their stories even contradict each other as well as the testimony of Jesse Marcel and Lou Rickett told to me first hand long ago. The only basis for even considering a Mogul balloon explanation is the disinformation newly told by Mac Brazel after having been reprogrammed, (according to Judd Roberts, Bill Brazel, Loretta Proctor, the Stricklands, Frank Joyce) and reported in the Daily Record on July 9, 1947 along with the supposed June 14 recovery date and the sticks and foil nonsense. July 8 articles say the stuff was recovered "last week�. Even the RDR says the stuff covered an area 200 yards in diameter; neat trick for a few sticks and foil from a radar reflector. Brazel would never have made the difficult trip to Roswell for a tiny radar reflector. If Cavitt was being truthful, Brazel would have tossed the wreckage (Cavitt said it would fit in one vehicle) in the back of his pickup, and there would have been nothing to take Marcel back to see. But wait, Cavitt now says he immediately recognized it as a balloon covering an area 20 feet square. Captain McAndrew says it was a huge Mogul train of balloons over 500 feet long with 23 balloons and sonobuoys and radar reflectors. How could that come down in an area 20 feet on a side? Why didn't Cavitt describe any foil and sticks? Could he have thought that he was supposed to say a balloon, rather than a Mogul Balloon? Why had Cavitt tried to convince Don Schmitt and Kevin Randle he wasn't even based in Roswell in early July, 1947 when he now, many years later, has clear recall of a simple balloon? Why did Cavitt lie when he said he went out with Jesse and Rickett and saw nobody else. There was no way he could ever have gone to the debris field without following Brazel. Marcel and Rickett each said they had gone out separately with Cavitt. Why doesn't Kent tell us the last line of the July 9 article, "I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon." Remember that Brazel had previously recovered balloons. Why doesn't Kent mention that Colonel Weaver, in the huge AF report, intentionally eliminated a most important phrase from a July 8, 1947, FBI memo about the supposed balloon, "The object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector (but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not borne out this belief) disc and balloon being transported". The intent is clearly to deceive. Newton's testimony is very different now from what it was in 1979 to Bill Moore after I had located him. Could it possibly be relevant that both are loyal career officers on nice pensions who need no hassles in retirement? Remember that almost 20 years ago Jesse told me that the wreckage covered a huge area hundreds of yards long and that he and Cavitt each took away only a small portion of it. Remember too that Mrs. Cavitt told Bill Moore, "He's not going to tell you anything. They told him not to." Bill had unfortunately mentioned at the Toronto MUFON conference that we had located Cavitt before he had been visited. Kent says the symbols drawn based upon Jesse Jr's testimony are the same as recalled by Newton. They look about as much alike to me as Greek and Russian letters. Did it not occur to Kent that Newton might have seen Jesse�s symbols at the Roswell museum or on an extruded replica? Funny, he hadn't mentioned the symbols years ago. Funny that the CIA's most sophisticated photo analysis couldn't find any of that wonderful toy factory tape in the photos. In short, Kent Jeffrey's enthusiastic �definitive" article is a splendid example of propaganda, NOT investigation. ==========================END=====================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:27:37 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:09:59 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:45:02 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOs and Professional Associations <Mucho snippo> >I think one has to be wary of letting Pflock's >emotionalism bias one against reading what >Corso has to say and certainly not allow >Pflock's attack to disuade one from >at least considering Corso's viewpoint. >Gary Dear Gary: I, too, think everyone ought to consider Corso's viewpoint without regard to Pflock's. I did, and here's just a little of what I found. 1) Corso places Marcel at the crash site where bodies were recovered, an incident Marcel himself never mentioned or even hinted at, despite being interviewed numerous times before his death. 2) Corso has a truck convoy carrying alien bodies to Wright Field stop over in Fort Riley, Kansas, where he "conveniently" catches a glimpse of one of the bodies. Every other alleged eyewitness has always testified that the debris and bodies were flown to Wright Field. 3) Corso can't even get the number of alien fingers right. In one place he refers to four, in another six. 4) Corso claims that all the other services had their debris specimens as well, but that the Army's apparently languished in a Pentagon file cabinet for 14 years, gathering dust, until the Great Corso arrived on the scene, and unlocked all their pent-up secrets. What he's saying here is that some of the world's greatest minds (don't forget MJ-12 or the UFO group) hadn't been able to accomplish diddley until he showed up and solved the problem virtually overnight. What an unrecognized genius! 5) Corso shamelessly name drops throughout the book; "fortunately," virtually everyone he names turns out to be seriously deceased, including his superior officer, Gen. Arthur Trudeau. The book would have been better titled "Waiting for Trudeau -- To Die." 6) Corso makes himself out to be the greatest individual who ever lived -- ultimately responsible not only for lasers and the integrated circuit, etc., but Star Wars and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Oh, I forgot, he also saved us and the world from the evil aliens. Apparently, they had been intending to invade for something like the last 50 years, but just never got around to it. Now that Corso has singlehandedly turned the technological tables on them, I guess it's back to plan B, or is that Plan 9 From Outer Space? 7) As equally significant as what Corso does say, is what he doesn't say. The ultimate insider's insider offers not a single shred of new evidence to support any of his claims. Virtually everything in his book could have been put together with the already existing Roswell literature and an active imagination -- either on Corso's part, or that of his co-author. 8) Nor does what we know about the Thurmond Foreward affair enhance the author's credibility. If Corso's version of the event is the correct one, he should be able to easily document it. If not, it tells us that whatever else Corso may be, he is certainly no stranger to deception. And no, I don't work for the CIA or any other government intelligence agency now, nor have I ever. I do have a sensitive nose, however, and The Day After Roswell reeks of the scent of money.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:08:58 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At > By Scientists > What we don't need is ufologists trying to ridicule the findings of those > sincere scientists who are courageous enough to analyze an alleged > Roswell crashed-saucer fragment, one of whom was courageous enough > to report > on the preliminary findings............smip > Jim Deardorff Very well said, Jim. I concur completely. I have offerred to assist in orchestrating a research symposium in Washington, DC. Not a UFO exposition with paid audience. A research symposium along the lines of the 1992 MIT Conference olnly covering the complete range of modern research - world wide attendance, formal papers, formal debate of presented evidence to a quorum of the world's UFO researchers, organized post conference media submissions. The UFO research community is running out of time to come of age. The paradigm line is approaching at warp speed. When it is crossed the mainstream institutions will move immediately to coopt the entire field from the UFO research community. While we are down on the floor biting each other's ankles, they will be walking away with agenda. Steve Bassett Paradigm Research Group Bethesda, MD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:14:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:44:03 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At > By Scientists > >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Scientists > >Give Russell VernonClark the benefit of the doubt for not having wished to > >stay around for the press conference, after seeing what a media circus the > >Roswell event was, and realizing that it would upset his colleagues all > >the more if he attended. > Dear Jim: > > Part of the reason _why_ it was a media circus was precisely because whoever > was behind the "press conference" _made_ it a media circus. Every reporter > who checked into the Convention Center for a press pass -- some 300 from 15 > countries -- found the following "Media Alert" from the PR firm of > Abrams-Rubaloff & Lawrence in their press kit: ... > The whole presentation was an attempt to take advantage of the assembled > media, orchestrated by A-R&L, probably at the behest of Mr. Wyatt (someone > had to pay for their services, after all), and probably as advance publicity > for his forthcoming video -- which, I predict, will extol the reality of the > Sims fragment to the highest heavens, in an effort to sell videos and make > money. > I repeat: A-R&L _created_ the media circus, and they did it under false > pretenses. _No press conference was held, nor was one ever intended_. > Derrell Sims, Roger Leir, Chris Wyatt and Russell VernonClark were all > whisked out the back door of the auditorium and into a waiting car, while > the press had been told that the press conference would follow the > presentation, and would be held in the lobby in the front of the building. > (To their credit, Paul Davids and Jesse Marcel, Jr. did face the press.) Hi Dennis, Well, have any ufologists then borne down on A-R&L, or whomever informed them there would be a press conference, and let them know how crummy it was for them to do such a thing? I take it it's the latter, and his/her identity is not known. Thanks for the information about A-R&L. > This was the way it was planned from the start, and this is the way it was > orchestrated and carried out. No press conference was ever intended. > Nor was any "chain of evidence" presented that would tie the small fragment, > an inch and a quarter wide and which looks like a rock, to either 1947 or > Roswell, only a statement by Sims that the anonymous individual who gave it > to him _said_ it came from Roswell. We often hear that a confession of identity will be forthcoming within the next few months or year on related matters, but such never seems to come about. No doubt the publicity that is whipped up discourages the witness/finder from ever coming out of anonymity. > I'd've been much more impressed with VernonClark's "courage" if he had stuck > around long enough to answer a few questions, as previously promised and > advertized. I would hope I would have if I had been in his place, but if he had not intended to be in on a news conference, and had never personally promised to, that's quite a different matter. He had to choose between the lesser of evils, one being enhanced ridicule from colleagues if he participated in it. > I think the fragment may indeed turn out to be "manufactured" in outer > space. For all I know, it may be some kind of tektite or something similar. > In other words, it could indeed be "manufactured," but that wouldn't > necessarily mean it was made by alien minds. Nor would it necessarily mean > that it was found near Roswell, New Mexico, in the year 1947. I eagerly > await the published paper. > In the meantime, whoever perpetrated the original "press conference" has a > considerable backlog of questions to answer. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Declassified Historical Information From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:16:28 -0400 Subject: Declassified Historical Information From: Gleason Sackman <gleason@rrnet.com> From: NET-HAPPENINGS@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET From: Donna Wair <wair@library.vanderbilt.edu> From: gsunet-l@ecnet.net U.S. Information Agency Declassified Historical Information http://www.usia.gov/admin/004/dchp/ The USIA's searchable database of declassified historical information lists titles of more than 5,300 classified and unclassified one-cubic-foot boxes of records at the Washington National Records Center in Suitland, Maryland, the principal repository for USIA historical records; the National Archives; other federal records centers, departments, and agencies; Presidential libraries; and miscellaneous ancillary collections. The database also includes the names of all file folders holding USIA classified records dated no later than December 31, 1975, whose contents, found in such boxes, have been declassified. Explanatory screens include the text of executive order 12958 and instructions on requesting declassified material. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> donna wair wair@library.vanderbilt.edu http://free.websight.com/Wair4/ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> J.W. Eagan: "Never judge a book by its movie." Search for other documents from or mentioning: d005734c | gleason |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:21:34 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix mass 'UFO' sighting Hello all, > .... > The "flare explanation" does nothing to explain the number of sightings > that occured along a line that passes through Phoenix, since the flares are > alleged to remain stationary because of their special parachutes that > capture the heat and keep them aloft (or slowly floating downward). And I'd like to know how they're supposed to have stayed in such a smooth, regular line over several minutes, was it?, even if the "flares" were released at uniform intervals. The parachutes would likely open at somewhat different times, causing them to be at noticeably different altitudes, and they'd be swaying back and forth, some more than others. The hot air from each flare would tend to rise vertically, but the parachute wouldn't always be above the right spot to intercept it due to its swaying. So they'd fall at different slowed-down rates, causing their horizontal alignment to be even more akilter. And of course, the questions raised by others shouldn't be ignored -- why were no parachutes found later in Phoenix, why no airplane(s) seen or heard at the time by those closest to the lights, why would they be doing their exercises so close to Phoenix, etc.? Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 UFOR: Miami Egyptology Society Meeting Cancelled From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:18:25 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Miami Egyptology Society Meeting Cancelled From: Danny Cox <dcox@ix.netcom.com> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List The scheduled speaker, who was going to talk about underwater pyramids found near Bimini, cancelled his presentation. It may be rescheduled for later in the summer. Those who are interested in pyramids should listen to the Laura Lee radio program next Saturday night/Sunday morning. There will be a guest on to discuss the Chinese pyramids. Danny
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Farewell AUFORA :^( - Hello exoScience :^) From: Dave Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:27:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:21:30 -0400 Subject: Farewell AUFORA :^( - Hello exoScience :^) AUFORA News Update Wednesday, July 30th 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ _________________________ This is the final mailing of the AUFORA News Update list. AUFORA has ceased all research activity and will no longer exist as an entity. However, the information contained on the AUFORA website, and the information distributed on this mailing list are still valuble and essential. Thus, while AUFORA ceases to exist, the information will be found in a new form. Those who have visited the former AUFORA site recently may have noted the emerging change. The end of AUFORA marks the beginning of exoSci.com. exoSci.com (exoScience) will feature information and news from astronomy, astrophyics, exobiology, and ufology. The first information section, ufology, is now being launched, and will soon be followed by exobiology. exoSci.com will also feature a mailing list similar in format to this one. The future will reveal more details about this. Immediately, you can visit the former AUFORA website at its new location under exoSci.com at: http://www.exosci.com/ufo/ The site has undergone some content changes. Most noteably: * a new search interface to search for keywords among the site's content * the Abductee Art Archive featuring art drawn and inspired by alleged abductees. I welcome you all to visit this new site. The exobiology portion of exoScience will launch within a few weeks, with astronomy and astrophysics following shortly behind. I encourage you to spread the word about this new emerging site, and I thank you and the entire internet UFO community for your support in the past of the AUFORA initiative. Thanks! Dave Watanabe __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ AUFORA Discussion: http://www.aufora.org/discuss/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will BE IGNORED!!! ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Nevada Nuclear Tests Exposed Millions To Risk, From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:34:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:23:01 -0400 Subject: Nevada Nuclear Tests Exposed Millions To Risk, Found at: http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/072997/health7_29003.html U. S. atomic tests in '50s exposed millions to risk, study says Copyright =A91997 Nando.net Copyright =A91997 N.Y. Times News Service=20 WASHINGTON (July 29, 1997 12:51 p.m. EDT) -- Atmospheric nuclear bomb tests in Nevada from 1951 to 1962 exposed millions of American children to large amounts of radioactive iodine, a component of fallout that can affect the thyroid gland, the National Cancer Institute said on Monday. The releases were larger than earlier estimates, and at least 10 times larger than those caused by the 1986 explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear plant in Ukraine. Under federal rules implemented in 1992 to deal with accidents at nuclear power plants, some of the tests would require protective actions like moving cows to shelter, or dumping their milk that would tend to have high concentrations of radioactive iodine. But no such precautions were taken at the time of the Nevada tests. The cancer institute could not say whether any cases of thyroid cancer were caused by the fallout. But several experts said the levels of exposure could justify special monitoring for some people -- particularly those who were children in the 1950s and 1960s. The information is from a 100,000-page study by the cancer institute that was ordered by Congress in 1982. The study was begun in 1983 and a draft report was completed in 1994. It has been undergoing revisions and rewriting since then. A summary of the study, prepared for internal use at the Department of Energy and obtained by The New York Times, says that according to formulas in international use for calculating radiation damage, the doses were large enough to produce 25,000 to 50,000 cases of thyroid cancer around the country, of which 2,500 would be expected to be fatal. But the accuracy of those formulas is not certain, experts at the Department of Energy and elsewhere say, because the data on exposures at that level are limited. The Department of Energy did not play a role in the study beyond providing some of the raw data. The department is a successor to the Atomic Energy Agency, which detonated most of the bombs. The leader of the cancer institute study, Dr. Bruce Wachholz, said it was not clear that the exposures were high enough to increase the cancer risk. Studies of people in Utah immediately downwind from the test site did not find a clear association with thyroid cancer, Wachholz said. The new study says the average dose to the approximately 160 million people living in the country in that period was 2 rads, a unit that stands for "radiation absorbed dose" and refers to the amount of energy absorbed by flesh. But, the cancer institute said on Monday, people living in "Western states to the north and east of the test site" received doses averaging 5 to 16 rads. Children aged 3 months to 5 years had doses 10 times higher, the institute said. The main pathway for radioactive iodine exposure is through milk, which children consume in larger quantities than adults, especially in comparison to their body weight. When the contaminated milk is consumed, the human body delivers the iodine to the thyroid, where it can cause the development of cancerous nodules. In addition, children's thyroids are smaller, and an equal quantity of the radioactive iodine in a smaller gland would deliver more energy per kilogram of tissue. In contrast to the 50 to 160 rads those children are believed to have received, federal rules for nuclear power plant accidents call for taking protective action when the dose to human thyroids is anticipated to reach 15 rads. And another government agency, a branch of the Public Health Service, studying thyroid exposures around a government nuclear bomb factory at Hanford, Wash., has recommended medical monitoring for adults who absorbed 10 rads or more as children. "There's a reasonable association" between radioactive iodine exposure and cancer, said Dr. Robert Spengler, the assistant director for science of the agency that made the recommendation, the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. He said the association was demonstrated by a growing body of literature, from people in the Marshall Islands, where tests were also conducted, and elsewhere. But Wachholz said "we really don't understand the dose-effect relationship" for radioactive iodine. He said studies by his agency in the 1980s of 2,500 adults in Utah who had also been studied as children in the 1960s had not found a basis for a firm statistical finding of an association. "I think it raises some serious questions," said E. Cooper Brown, chairman of the National Committee for Radiation Victims, a coalition of groups that includes soldiers exposed in the field, uranium miners and people who lived downwind of the test site. "I don't think you can say, 'aha, definitely.' That would be stepping way out of bounds. But you can't just shrug your shoulders and say, ah, it probably didn't hurt anybody." The iodine form in question, iodine 131, is created when uranium or plutonium is split, in a reactor or a bomb. It is intensely radioactive, losing half of its radioactivity every eight days, meaning that within a few weeks it has disappeared. But if the release is large enough, it can be carried thousands of miles in the upper atmosphere and come to earth with enough energy remaining to deliver substantial doses. The cancer institute said that its dose estimates were subject to "a large degree of uncertainty" because they were based on a small number of radiation measurements made at the time. One factor in estimating the dose is calculating the average amount of milk consumed, and its average time to market. The institute said it had accomplished two of the goals that Congress set for it in 1982: developing a way to estimate the dose, and making the estimate. The third, assessing the risk of cancer from the exposures, is still to be finished, the institute said. It released the information after several days of reports about the contents of the study, which it plans to complete by October. The cancer institute warned doctors in 1977 that the incidence of thyroid cancer had risen, to 3.9 cases per 100,000 population in a 1969-71 survey, from 2.4 cases in 1947. Among white people aged 20 to 35, the increase was "twofold to fourfold," the institute said, referring to people who were children at the time. But the cause is not clear; doctors had been using radiation to treat everything from acne to deafness from the 1920s on. Thyroid cancer is a relatively rare disease. According to the American Cancer Society, it will kill about 1,230 people this year, out of a total 560,000 deaths from all forms of cancer. The disease has a cure rate of 90 percent to 95 percent, although patients require drug therapy for the rest of their lives. The size of the doses being estimated surprised experts. "This is especially tragic, because it could have been avoided," said Arjun Makhijani, the president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research, a nonprofit group based here that specializes in nuclear weapons. "They knew when the tests were and chose not to warn the population, and they located the test site in the West, knowing there would be fallout over the whole country." The Department of Energy summary contrasted the new estimate of radiation dose to an estimate submitted to the old Joint Committee on Atomic Energy in 1959, which was .2 to .4 rads, or more than 100 times smaller than the average now cited for Western states. The new study attempts to reconstruct the effects of 90 blasts at the Nevada Test Site, which was used by this country and Britain, across the 3,070 counties in the 48 contiguous states. The study found Iodine 131 "hot spots" from a series of tests in 1953 that included large areas of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Iowa, Wisconsin, New York and Massachusetts, including one event in the Troy/Albany area. That event was briefly described by the Defense Nuclear Agency in 1982, when it said people living there may have received a dose of 2 rads to the whole body, and was widely reported at that time. The Department of Energy summary of the new study, however, puts the Troy/Albany event in a new light, since 2 rads would not necessarily have required protective action under the rules that would be adopted later. But the thyroid dose there was high enough to have required protective action, had those rules been in effect at the time, the summary said. By MATTHEW L. WALD, N.Y. Times News Service Copyright =A91997 Nando.net Do you have some feedback for the Nando Times staff?=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Washington Post Paranoia Poll (UFOs Etc.) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:10:21 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:23:50 -0400 Subject: Washington Post Paranoia Poll (UFOs Etc.) UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM New facts and hot stats from the social sciences By Richard Morin Sunday, July 27, 1997; Page C05 The Washington Post=20 My Editor Is a Space Alien and Other Paranoid Thoughts It's those lazy, hazy, crazy days of summer. And this hot season, the emphasis is definitely on crazy. Many of us have been staring wide-eyed for weeks at those Pathfinder photographs from the surface of Mars. But a new Washington Post survey suggests that one out of six American adults -- an estimated 27 million people -- suspect those photos may be fakes and doubt that the spacecraft really landed on the Red Planet. Half of these doubters go even further. They say they're convinced that the whole Mars mission was an elaborate fraud. Oh, my. And talk about out-of-town summer guests. Half of those surveyed accept the possibility that intelligent aliens from outer space have visited Earth -- and one in four say aliens might be living among us now. Three percent told Post poll takers they think they may have actually met an alien. Well, of course you have. But whatever; Americans might be forgiven even this deep-space flight of fancy. After all, we've already been inundated this summer with the hoopla and hokum surrounding the 50th anniversary of the purported Roswell UFO landing, as well as the release of mega-hyped movies with extra-terrestrial themes such as "Men in Black" and "Contact."=20 While all this spacey talk may just be silly summer fun, other recent polls offer a more sinister and sobering look at some of our most persistent national fears. Half of those interviewed in a survey by Scripps Howard newspapers said it was at least "somewhat likely" that federal officials were "directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy." Four in 10 also suspect that the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800 off the coast of Long Island last year. Likewise, unpublished data collected in a recent survey conducted in the 13 Southern states by the Institute for Research in the Social Sciences at the University of North Carolina found that one out of five blacks believe that it was "absolutely" or "probably" true that AIDS and HIV "are being used as a plot to deliberately kill African Americans." Why are so many of us so suspicious? Well, sometimes the government is out to get you. After all, President Clinton did just apologize for the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. And remember how unsuspecting servicemen were used as guinea pigs in early atomic bomb tests to assess the effects of radiation? Experts also say the news and entertainment media fan our paranoia. Seven of Hollywood's top-ten grossing films last year included decidedly anti-government themes. On TV, the hit show "The X-Files" dishes up both government conspiracies and space aliens.=20 ARE SPACE ALIENS FLYING THOSE BLACK HELICOPTERS? Percentage of Americans who believe there's "at least a chance" that: Intelligent aliens from outer space 50% "have visited the Earth sometime=20 in the past."=20 Aliens from outer space are "living 25% here on Earth right now." The Pathfinder never landed on Mars 17% and the "photos are fakes." Percentage who say it is either "very" or "somewhat" likely that: President Franklin Roosevelt failed 42% to warn U.S. Forces that the=20 Japanese were going attack Pearl Harbor because he wanted America to get into a war with Japan. The FBI "deliberately set" the fires 40% that destroyed the Branch Davidian compound in Waco. The U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 39% 800 "either by accident or on=20 purpose." Percentage of African Americans living in the South who say it's "absolutely" or "probably" true that: The government "deliberately makes 46% sure that drugs are easily available=20 in poor black neighborhoods in order=20 to harm black people." HIV and AIDS are being used "as a 20% plot to deliberately kill African=20 Americans." SOURCES: Surveys sponsored by The Washington Post, Scripps Howard Newspapers, University of North Carolina Center for the Study of the American South You can reach The Unconventional Wiz at:=20 morinr@clark.net =20 =A9Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company Back to the top=20 =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Moon Might Be Huge Collision's Child From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:58:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:25:10 -0400 Subject: Moon Might Be Huge Collision's Child Found on StarNet at: http://www.azstarnet.com/public/dnews/0729no3.html Moon might be huge collision's child By Robert S. Boyd Knight-Ridder Newspapers CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - Astronomers have come up with a new answer to an age-old question: Where did the moon come from? They now suspect that a wandering planet three times bigger than Mars sideswiped the Earth 4.5 billion years ago, destroying itself but blasting enough matter into space to form our lunar companion. Until recently, the moon was believed to have been formed independently by the slow buildup of particles of gas and dust until it reached its present size and was captured by Earth's gravity. If the new theory is correct, the moon that has inspired lovers, poets and myth-makers throughout human history is the result of a massive traffic accident in space - a much more dramatic birth than the conventional view. And similar collisions could explain a lot about how the solar system was shaped. According to Robin Canup, an astrophysicist at the University of Colorado, the heat created by such a tremendous collision would have vaporized much of Earth's crust, which was then just forming. The fiery material spread into a gaseous disk spinning around the Earth, she suggested. The disk then broke apart into a handful of extremely hot "moonlets'' which eventually coalesced into today's single large moon. The "giant impact theory'' is based on computer simulations performed by Canup and colleagues at Colorado's Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics. Canup's paper was made available in advance of her scheduled presentation here Thursday at a meeting of 600 planetary scientists, sponsored by the American Astronomical Society. The notion that two planet-size objects banged into each other to form the moon was first proposed by Harvard University researchers 10 years ago. They suggested that the "impactor'' was about the size of Mars, or twice the size of the moon. But such an object would not have the energy to produce enough material to form the moon, so doubts remained. The new computer simulations have strengthened the impact theory, but indicate that the planet would have to have been much bigger - 2 1/2 to three times the size of Mars. Earth is roughly twice the size of Mars. Canup estimated that the moon began its career close to home - about 15,000 miles from Earth - but slowly drifted to its present distance of 239,000 miles. Collisions between heavenly bodies are not new, of course. The Earth, the moon, Mars and Jupiter have frequently been battered by passing comets or asteroids, which are much smaller than planets. According to Canup, the lost planet was probably orbiting the sun somewhere between the Earth and Mars when it got too close to Earth and smashed into it at an oblique angle. Canup said similar massive impacts may explain such puzzles as the unusually large metal core of Mercury, the way Uranus tilts its north and south poles toward the sun, and the peculiar "double-planet'' system composed of Pluto and Charon, a satellite half as big as Pluto. In addition, the theory may encourage astronomers who are hunting for planets around other stars. The disks formed by a planetary smashup would be extremely hot and bright, and thus might be detectable by the new generation of powerful ground-and space-based telescopes. Astronomers at Harvard, the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo., and the Tokyo Institute of Technology contributed to the work. The Moon Shop Web space has links the Net's lunar sites.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: Vallee Re-surfaces? From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:29:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:28:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee Re-surfaces? ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Vallee Re-surfaces? > Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 11:53 AM > From: SGBList1@aol.com > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:53:22 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Upcoming Netshow on the Politics of UFOs > Re: Project Watchfire netshow on the "Politics of UFOs" > When: August 5, 9 p.m. est (new show every Tuesday evening) > Where: Project Watchfire website: www.watchfire.msn.com/watchfire > Guests: Jacques Vallee, researcher and authorand Stephen Bassett, > consultant >As prelude to my appearance on this show I am seeking input from BB and ML >participants on concepts making up the politics of UFOs. >Any comments are welcome. If you prefer, feel free to respond privately. > Some suggestions: > What does the concept "Politics of UFOs" mean to you" It means that Ufology is 100% a public science; that politically, any Academic commits occupational suicide should they publically express concern over any aspect of Ufology. > Is there a place for a political activist wing in the UFO movement? Sure, but it will fall into the same routine as every other political activist movement; revolving stasis. Eventually, it'll become another institution that deems its own survival as far more important than a solution to the questions it originally posed. > Is it really a movement? Actually, in the public, yes. Since science was removed from public access after the bomb was dropped - to protect the public from the dangers inherent in new scientific knowledge - all phenomena which result in public experiences outside of the limited public-physics of reality, must be investigated and analysed by the public. In a way, the 'movement' is towards making science a public institution once again. > Are any of these issues politically resolvable in our lifetime? Nope. Politically speaking, admitting to misinformation is suicide. There is no more possibility of Government allowing its deceptions to be made public in the UFO field than there is the possibility of Government admitting it has lied about Hemp. Even Congressional hearings will be forced to take into account the reputations and position of those involved in the cover up, and thus out of necessity of protecting the Top, will ignore much evidence and try and soften the impact on Very Important People. > What is your opinion of CSETI's efforts politically? Statgare International? Its hilarious in a way, but at the same time, is the very best effort we are currently capable of. While I doubt very much that it will solve anything, save showing the Intel Community another area they must limit and infiltrate, I see it as the best way to get Public Interest fomented. Not the Congressional Hearings, which I doubt will ever occur, but the public notification that Ufologists are attempting to force Congressional hearings, may just be the proverbial straw needed to truly turn Ufology into a Public Science. > How dangerous do you perceive strong activism in these areas at this time? How dangerous is induced cancer? >:> > What is your opinion of the various petition efforts? Oh definitely keep plucking at them, but do please give more consideration to making this attempt publically known. > How effective were the FOIA efforts? Which ones? So far, although it has been publically proven that the US military DID NOT STOP STUDYING UFOs after Bluebook through FOIA dox, it has changed nothing publically, because the general public is still 99% in the dark about the truth still. And methinks the Boys of Control will soon enough realize that FOIA is an excellent means of distributing misinformation. > Is our society <<politically>> capable of dealing with a full paradigm shift > coming out fo the alien hypothesis? It has no choice. A society that ignores change, dies. This whole idea of secrecy to protect the people from what might frighten them, is pure absurdity. What you don't know can kill you! > Any other ideas and suggestions.? I sincerely wish I did. What your attempting is by far the most 'promising' approach I think, but I feel its success is very limited, due entirely to the fact that "The Truth Must Not Be Released" is the general attitude of our Authorities today. > As a consultant and lobbyist working with extraterrestrial phenomena > researchers, I am of the view that the key initial issues will be resolved > politically in Washington, DC before they are resolved scientifically. Do > you agree? Personally, I no longer believe Washington, or any other Political body, is capable of resolving anything. Methinks they're far too busy preparing against what they refuse to admit exists. And that means accepting whatever orders pays the best. G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 UFO Phenomenona in Romania From: "Manoliu Valentin" <manovale@starnets.ro> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:48:12 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:05:27 -0400 Subject: UFO Phenomenona in Romania Mr. Errol Bruce-Knapp, If you are interested about UFO phenomenon's in Romania, I will send to you new information. In the night of Sunday to Monday (27-28.07.1997), on sky, at the Nedelea village, from the Prahova district, Romania, the assistant of the chief police station from the Aricestii Rahtivani commune, Ion Moldoveanu saw a UFO. He was patrolling in Nedelea village when on sky "a bright object with a spherical shape, who was changing its sense of rotation, throwing a cone of light throughout village. That is what he specified in the report he made to the District Police. The phenomenon was observed by others citizens of the Nedelea village. It was observed by the ones who were just passing by there, too. They pointed out "a bright appearance" on sky, on the Calinesti, Filipesti de Padure, Nedelea, Floresti route. The reprezentatives of the radio-location stations were contacted by phone, but they affirmed that in that night nothing special was observed. E-mail: manovale@starnets.ro Mail: Str. General Dona, Nr. 5, Ap. 9, Et. 2, Sector 1, Bucharest, Romania. Best regarding, Manoliu Valentin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:10:37 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > I sure hope you're wrong! Most of the people I know who are trying to > get to the root of the UFO phenomenon, and all other unusual phenomena > would consider books like these almost required reading. There are, of > course, many others, including Manly P. Hall, Annie Besant, Alice > Bailey, and modern writers such as Elisabeth Haich, D. Scott Rogo, J.H. > Brennan, William R. Corliss, Joel Whitton, Ostrander and Schroeder, > Lyall Watson, Jess Stearn, Stan Grof, Michael Talbot, etc. etc. etc. > We've all realized that the answers to UFO's can't be found by just > focusing on UFO books. The phenomena appears to be very related to > phenomena in many other fields of study. > Then again, we don't really consider ourselves as "ufologists" either! > These types of labels only help to restrict the focus. Folks, I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our correspondents are discussing here. I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe speculations like the above consume attention more productively spent in actual study of UFO reports. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Re: The Mars Photo From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:10:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:14:10 -0400 Subject: Re: The Mars Photo Hi All! I know that I might appear to be making a mountain out of a molehill so-to-speak, but I need to say something. I CANNOT find a clear version of the photo (#81977_full.jpg ) ANYWHERE ON THE WEB!! The only versions I come up with are the grainy, distorted pics like the one at the JPL site! Now, I DID download this photo (the clear one) as-is from the SUN_MICROSYSTEMS site, however even the photo they have up now IS DISTORTED!! (you'll have to excuse the error I made earlier when I said it came from the CNN mirror site...I linked to the site from CNN's list of mirror sites). If anyone knows of ANY reason WHY all the pictures are lousy quality NOW, when I found a clear one BEFORE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!! Also, if you can find the clear version some- where, PLEASE let me know!!! Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701/ufo.html P.S. -- ONCE AGAIN I have attatched the CLEAR version to this post! PLEASE feel free to compare with others! P.S.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 30 Skywatch: 1st Skywatch International Conference From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:35:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:17:48 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: 1st Skywatch International Conference ANNOUNCING THE FIRST ANNUAL SKYWATCH CONFERENCE DATE: NOVEMBER 8th and 9th, 1997 PLACE: HOLIDAY INN WEST at 51st Ave and the I-10 Freeway Phoenix, Arizona SCHEDULE OF SPEAKERS AND EVENTS: SATURDAY - THE UFO MYSTERIES WELCOME SPEAKER 1 LUNCH BREAK 12:00 - 13:00 Lt. Col (USAF Ret) Wendelle Stevens 13:00 - 14:30 "UFO Photos of the 1990s" Ted Loman of UFO AZ 14:30 - 16:00 "History of UFO Crash/Retrievals" Chris O' Brien 17:30 - 19:00 "The Mysterious Valley Update and the New Research Paradigm" Dinner Break 19:00 - 20:30 Keynote Speaker 20:30 - 22:00 Jim Dilettoso, Tom King, Bill Hamilton "The Phoenix Lights" - a video presentation SUNDAY - BEHIND THE UFO MYSTERY WELCOME 10:00 - 10:30 SPEAKER 6 10:30 - 12:00 LUNCH BREAK 12:00 - 13:00 SPEAKER 7 13:00 - 14:30 SPEAKER 8 14:30 - 16:00 SPEAKER 9 16:00 - 17:30 DINNER BREAK 17:30 - 19:00 Col. (USAF Ret) Steve Wilson - Keynote Speaker 19:00 - 20:30 "Inside MAJI (MJ-12), NSA, and the Aquarius Project" Speaker Panel and closing 20:30 - 22:00 Price Schedule: Non-members: $35 per day or $65 for both days $120 for couples for both days Members: $30 per day or $55 for both days $100 for member couples for both days Children (under 15): $25 per day or $50 for both days Table rental space (Six vendor tables are available) at $100.00 per table A block of Hotel rooms will be offered at special conference rates up to a month before the conference. Make checks or M.O. out to: SKYWATCH CONFERENCE Mail to: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL 4757 E. Greenway Road, Suite #103-84 Phoenix, AZ 85032 Call: (602) 404-7566 for further information ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 The Houston Press - The Derrel Files From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:16:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:38:36 -0400 Subject: The Houston Press - The Derrel Files Received this July 30 at 11.20 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours) from the UFOR mailing list d005734c@dc.seflin.org which again forwarded it from the IUFO mailing list: From: Mike Spitzer <mrufomn@goodnet.com> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List WOW! if even a small part of this article i just read is true.....well....i dont even know what to say or think. i have listened to derrel for many yrs and i never heard or knew about him claiming the stuff reported below! WILD?!? WEIRD?!?! i kinda feel betrayed. and, disappointed, to put it mildly. Again, i would really appreciate info, comments, opinions. From The Houston Press -- Volume 8, number 22 -- May 30- June 5, 1996 Space Cases: The Derrel Files The sky turned green a few months back, from Dallas all the way to the Gulf. "A lot of people saw it," the man was saying, and if you didn't, you weren't looking, and you'll never see anything if you don't look. He had begun speaking of lights that came down and melted the asphalt when, on the other side of the room at the Innova Center, another man reached into his coat pocket and lifted into the air a blue-velvet box. It was the chief abductions investigator with his little box of treasures. His jaw was set and his eyes were darting, and Derrel Sims looked important, in an FBI kind of way. He held a magnifying glass over the box; the members of the Houston UFO Network shuffled forward. "This is one a lady sent me," Sims began. "said she found it in her bed after an abduction." He moved his hands beneath their eyes. "These are little tiny nasal implants we found from a little girl," he continued. "Those little stringy things?" a woman asked, scrunching up her nose. Yes, Sims answered. They're .21 micrometers, which is about the size he would expect a nasal implant to be. He had instructed the girl's mother to collect her mucus the morning after each abduction. He found the implants by poking through the Kleenex. "You have to know what to look for," he explained. Sims showed them the "ocular implant" that stood as proof of the mass abductions of 1992, and he showed them a "high-tech ceramic" that he said was found at the site of a UFO crash. But there were specimens in that case more difficult to recover, and one by one, the chief investigator held the magnifying glass over them -- the little black bits that had been cut, he said, from a lady's foot, a man's hand and another woman's neck. "If abductions are real, there should be evidence," he said gravely. "We thing we're finding that evidence." His display was filmed in April by news crew from Channel 13. The pretty blond reporter had very few questions. She declined to sit through the lecture on dead cows, but on the way out, she thanked the chief investigator and told him this was all very fascinating, and she would think so even if she weren't working. Sims was gracious and courtly. He seemed reluctant to let her go, which only mad his rejections the "Houston Press" sting all the more. No, he would not sit for a portrait. "It's not about me. It's about what's happening to these people," he said. "And I don't need a critic to evaluate what I'm doing." In the field they call ufology, Derrel Sims is becoming a shining star. In late March, he and his implant surgeries were the subject of an entire episode of the UPN series "Paranormal Borderline." In Houston alone, some 50,000 households tuned in, and now a producer for Fox is considering another show like it. The chief investigator and his work are also on the current cover story of "UFO Magazine." He has videos on sale, a 900 number offering alien updates, a World Wide Web page called "Alien Hunter" and an autobiography in the works, which he intends to call "Confessions of an Alien Hunter." It was my honor several years ago to be among the first reporters to speak with Mr. Sims. Just so I would know, he began by saying he could kill me in an instant, and there would be nothing I could do. Then he went on to describe his intergalactic battle with the alien leader Mondoz, and I went on to recount the tale in the "Houston Post." It wasn't my fault it didn't make the front page, and I am only partly responsible for the fact that it looked, there in Section D, kind of like a joke. But the hard-core members of HUFON were not amused, and when I returned recently to investigate the growing fame of the chief investigator, many of them declined to talk with me. One said afterward that she had been scolded for doing so. Another suggested that I was gullible for doubting alien abductions and that I had been brainwashed by the government. Anyway, a warning to the editor finally arrived from Derrel Sims' second-in-command. Cooperation from HUFON members has been understandably lacking, wrote Senior Investigator Dale C. Musser. "While I do not know what Mr. Patterson's personal reasons are for his dislike of Mr. Sims, it is clear that he is on a vendetta... [Reports from people he has questioned] seem to indicate that much of what Mr. Patterson plans to write is very close to, if not liable." Liable to do what, Musser did not say, but nonetheless, it was clear the doors were closed to me, and with nowhere else to turn, I fell in with a small band of outcasts. They believed it was possible that life exists on other planets. Most of them believed space aliens could very well be visiting Earth. And they all agreed on one thing: as one put it, "Derrel is destroying the credibility of the field." He was the reason they left HUFON three years ago, and he and his fame were the reason they emerged from their exile now. They told their Derrel stories and turned over their Derrel files. They gave names of people who would talk. None was more eager than Rebecca Schatte, a real estate agent turned Internet paranormal reporter who has committed much of her recent life to investigating the investigator. "I have trouble with people who name their aliens," she said. "Derrel's a fraud, and I expose frauds." "Derrel Sims' pioneering work in the alien and abduction phenomenon and his discovery of alleged artifacts may someday be the foundation for major discoveries in the fields of science and technology." That, at least is what he says in the background sheet he hands out. The chief investigator also serves as "abductee chairman" of HUFON's abductee support group. The membership is kept secret and the group meets at secret times and places. Only abductees are allowed, and only Derrel Sims can certify an abductee. He has bragged that he can do this just by looking at you, but just to make sure, he takes out his tools. According to a handout on his methods, the assessment might begin with an analysis of your handwriting. Then it would go on to something called Symbolic Profiling, and eventually, Sims would evaluate the shape of your face and observe which way you looked as you told your story. If you didn't look up, which would indicate you're making it up, you might then undergo a battery of tests. The IQ test is necessary because "certain levels of intelligence are not likely to make up convincing stories." Then there's the personality profile, and then the "Alleged Alien Encounter Questionnaire." A few years ago, this alien test was only a short quiz with questions such as "Have you ever heard buzzing sounds you could not account for?" and "Have you ever seen lights flash in your eyes that you could not explain?" The questionnaire has evolved since then into a marvel of abduction science, a long exam that asks about excessive fingernail growth, allergic reactions to Novocaine and words or terms you feel you know, which have no real meaning to you. "For Men Only" is the section that addresses what's going on in your scrotum, and the section "For Women Only" wants to know, "Do you ever have sexual fantasies about powerful, small or dark men who make love and walk away?" If you get this far Sims puts you in his La-Z-Boy and you get hypnotized. Usually, he puts you under to get more details about your abduction, but often people sit down thinking they've only seen an owl or something with big eyes like a cat. In these cases, Sims uses hypnosis to see through the "screen memory" left by aliens. The result is believers such as HUFON President Donna Lee, who, until she was hypnotized, had no idea she'd been taken away. "All I know is that through my regressions with Derrel, I'm an abductee," she said. Since an abduction by space aliens is a harrowing experience, Sims recommends therapy. "Hypnotherapy is great," he says. Inside the abduction support group, according to another handout, "many abductees have stated that for the first time in their lives they do not feel at odds with life." Musser, an engineer, showed up suffering from depression and learned it was "Post-Abduction Syndrome." He became a believer. Now, as the Senior Investigator, he's trying to understand, among other things, why aliens stopped his plane in the middle of the sky as he returned from his father's funeral. The private eye cost Rebecca Schatte $500. He found some tax problems and a slew of businesses with funky names, but no criminal record for Derrel Sims. Schatte was disappointed. If you want dirt, the private eye suggested, you should steal the man's garbage. All sorts of dirt in there, he said, and Schatte thought about it but decided no, she didn't want to get that dirty. There's a woman in Dallas who believes space aliens drowned her children. Derrel Sims has gone to investigate, and Schatte has, too. She is on his trail -- writing letters, making phone calls. She thinks she may have discouraged the organizer of a conference from inviting Sims to speak. "What are you going to write?" she wanted to know. "Crazy Woman Chases Lunatic"? I don't know why I'm doing this. This is not the end of the world. But if people are being harmed, it needs to be stopped." One evening in 1983, at a time when she had "a lot of personal things going on, "Schatte was lying in her bed reading a book. The next thing she knew, it was much later, and she was standing outside her car, 15 miles from home and hysterical. She never figured out what happened, and the experience was pushed to the back of her mind until she showed up at a HUFON meeting and heard about "missing time." "'Oh, I had that, I said, and they said, 'Oh, you've been abducted, you've been abducted!" And Schatte was sent home with directions to read a book by famed abductions guru Bud Hopkins. She did and was scared and wondered if indeed she had been taken away. When her mother died a few years ago, she realized her ties to the earth had been weakened, and for some reason, she reached out to the chief investigator of abductions. She completed Sims' paperwork and waited, but he never agreed to take her case, never said anything at all except that he was terribly busy. When Bud Hopkins came to town, Schatte cornered him and got herself hypnotized anyway. There were no aliens lurking back there, but the story she recalled involved a car and a highway exit that didn't exist at the time. She understood then that she could never trust hypnosis and would never know what happened to her. "I think it's a good example of how you can be led, how you can be sucked into the whole thing," she said. "Something happened, but Derrel is in no position to tell me what. Bud Hopkins is in no position. No one can tell me what happened, but I allowed myself to believe they could." The alien hunter claims to hail from a line of warriors that goes back to the king of England. Which king he does not say, but the family wound up eventually in the little town of Alamogordo, New Mexico, and Derrel Sims grew up during the height of the Cold War watching missiles from the nearby White Sands testing range rise into the sky. He says now the aliens have been harassing his family for 100 years. At any rate, he wasn't surprised the day he was told three UFOs swooped down and flew beside a missile. The aliens came for him the first time when he was three, Sims told UFO Magazine. He told me they came to his bed only once, when be was 17 and already deep into UFO research. What they did to him, he won't reveal unless it has happened to you. (It's an alien thing; you wouldn't understand.) For whatever reason, Sims dropped out of college after only a year, and if there was an implant on his person, it didn't prevent him from joining the Army. He has said he was training to be a military policeman in 1968 when the CIA recruited him and sent him to work in covert operations. It had something to do with raising lions and tigers, people recall, but Sims was vague about it and his military record only shows that he was an MP for three years of no particular distinction. He wound up in Spring, eventually, living on a street called Enchanted Gate. In 1979, he registered the first of eight businesses in Houston - something called Parallax Enterprises. The next year, he founded Sims Construction & Supply, and that seems to have kept him busy until 1987, when he surfaced again with Executive Financial Associates. By then, he was also deep into New Age, and knew enough about "the latest brain research" to be running Accelerated Learning Systems. According to a flier, an ALS course offered "answers to questions such as 'Who Are You?' 'Why Are You Here?' 'Who Do You Wish to Become?'" The secrets lay in "Quantum Holographic Techniques." "With this technique, Mr. Sims obtained a black belt in Japanese Karate, without ever taking any lessons. A feat no human has done prior." He became a scuba-diving instructor the same way, the ad bragged, and with this special technique, he could teach you everything he knows about scuba-diving and karate -- in just five minutes. For a small fee. "The amazing thing about you is how you got where you are!" goes one of the testimonials. "Your sense of being is unlimited," goes another. "It must be hard to be mortal!" Maybe not -- not with his superhuman ability to learn. He seems never to have taught what he learned; he just taught leaning -- Super Learning, Optimal Learning, Peak Experience Learning. By 1989, according to another flier, Sims had learned that "you probably use less than 1 percent of your total brain capacity." He, of course, used much more, and for $220, he would teach you to think like he thinks. "Come and become an explorer-archaeologist of yourself beginning a lifetime of discovery of the greatest wonder created ... you!" It was around this time that he joined the Houston UFO Network. Sometime after that Derrel Sims moved to an Humble road called Rising Star. He appeared sharply dressed at that first meeting, but "he had a look on his face like 'I've been through the wringer,'" old HUFON member Max Washburn recalled. "And when he said he'd been abducted, I believed him." Sim's wife, Doris, has almost never been seen at meetings, and as for his teenage son, Sims told his new friends the aliens had wrecked him. Sims made friends quickly. He was "a real buggy person, like he's going to help you out," one woman remembered. Vince Johnson considered him just 'a tad eccentric,' right from the beginning. As Johnson recalled, Sims held out his hand and said: "Hi. I'm a warrior." HUFON gradually grew to about 150 members, and Sims' role grew along with it. About the time he became abductee chairman, he founded another company called Saber Enterprises. Saber bills itself as a laboratory and research center, but there's little sign its ever been much more than a post office box and a La-Z-Boy in Sims' home. This is where Sims works as a certified hypnotherapist. "A state of hypnosis exists any time we suspend the critical, analytical factor in the thought process," he said in an old HUFON newsletter. The letters he sprinkles behind his name -- C.Ht -- come from a variety of hypnosis "institutes." The problem with these short-course schools, say therapists with Ph.D.s, is that they may consist of just one person who says, "I certify you." Anyway, when Derrel Sims finished his education he began hypnotizing the members of HUFON and, for $395 each, certifying them, too, in hypnotherapy. He needs the money to go after the aliens, his supporters say, and no one doubts Sims is serious about those aliens. Speaking of his own abduction, "he had a lot of anger about it," a fellow abductee recalled, "a lot of militancy, like he wanted to amass an army against the ETs." At Saber Enterprises, he is said to have worked on a stun gun to neutralize the aliens. He also passed out a wanted poster bearing the likeness of your basic space creature. "If you have any information concerning the activities of these individuals," it read, "please contact DERREL SIMS." "His approach is very, very scientific," HUFON member Dan Marshall testifies. "He really did know what he was talking about," an abductee says. "His work was of a higher caliber than other UFO researchers." Everywhere that Derrel went, there were many sure to go. When Musser let it be known that he was always abducted on his annual camping trip, the chief investigator deputized a posse, and off they went with wind-up cameras into the Colorado wilderness to wait for what would come. They waited and waited, but Musser went nowhere, and nothing came. Eventually, Sims became quite ill, and as he told the story later, it was the aliens at work, urging him telepathically to go get help for himself so they could have their way with his comrades. The alien hunter refused to retreat and that is why the aliens never came. They were afraid of him. Quick of mind and tongue, the chief investigator solved the abduction mystery with typical-lightning speed. He revealed his work little by little. It amounted to the most amazing coincidence: HUFON's own DerrelWayne Sims, C.Ht., the man standing before them on the podium -- he was the focus of all alien abductions worldwide. The aliens were trying to get to him, and they would have done it, too, if Sims didn't have a friend in a high place by the name of God. "It's a pretty nice deal," said Sims. Surely, there was no greater power than an alliance between Derrel Sims and God, and Sims believed that inevitably, the alien leader would have to descend to Earth and negotiate. The plot was similar to that of the 1960s sci-fi novel "Dune," in which a young nobleman assumes control of the planet Arrakis and demands a visit from the emperor of the galaxy. Sims began to repeat the nobleman's battle cry:" "The emperor must come to Arrakis!" The only problem with all this was the little matter of proof. The chief investigator had not a speck of it. He was lucky, though, amazingly lucky, for it was soon supplied. In December 1992, the morning after a HUFON meeting on abduction, Dale Musser awoke with a bloody nose. This was a bad sign. Sims put him under, and the details began pouting out. Musser realized he had just experienced not one but two abductions, the first of which occurred before the meeting. He was led from his bedroom out to the driveway by a gray alien wearing a tool belt They were beamed up, and he was told on the mother ship to get naked. He was led through a series of rooms, in which he saw a few of his HUFON chums, along with a dinosaur, and aliens who looked like monks and cockroaches and even like Bigfoot. What they shoved up Musser's nose then was actually an eavesdropping device, he realized later. His nosebleed after the meeting occurred when he was debugged. When Sims hypnotized them, the chums Musser saw saw other chums, and finally a former HUFON member in Jacksonville, Florida, was told she had been floating on the UFO, too. She was not surprised, for she makes these voyages with regularity, and she was due to go. As it turned out she was the first of this lot. The chief investigator claimed that the last time he hypnotized her, he had given her a message for Mondoz. Consequently, when Mondoz appeared in her bedroom, she rose quickly and cried out: "Derrel Sims knows what you're doing!" They say Mondoz's head turned into a worm then, but when he regained his composure, he had everyone bugged before the abduction meeting, in order to discover what this Derrel Sims had been teaching. Whatever Mondoz got out of it, the abduction was certainly a blast for the earth people. One woman saw Jesus on the UFO. Another spoke, with her dead brother, and a third was handed silverware when she said she was hungry. It wasn't nice of the aliens to cut the secretary's finger off, but they were polite enough to sew it back on. A day or so later, the story goes, the secretary was at her desk, rubbing her sleepy eyes, when something plopped down that would become known in the annals of HUFON as "the ocular implant." Sims had it examined at the University of Houston and began happily announcing it contained rare metals. As for "The Mass Abduction Event of December 8, 1992," Sims declared it the first time in history that aliens had taken people simultaneously from different locations. What a wonderful piece of work by the chief investigator; what a marvelous, swashbuckling year. Sims distributed a pamphlet boasting of his success. He "orchestrated a mass abduction." He "tore off two 'eyecups' in two abductions" and took over thought processes of an alien in one project -- aboard craft." And he discovered that aliens "make careless errors" and "appear to have low IQ's." This news brought great relief to some earthlings. "UFO Universe" made Sims its cover story, and he was christened "Alien Hunter" on the cover of UFO Library Magazine. He spoke on radio shows and was invited to lectures. By August 1993, when he reached the Corpus Christi chapter of the Mutual UFO Network, he had forgotten why he came. "We were trying to find out about the multiple cases, and we weren't interested in whether he could catch a hummingbird or chase down a deer," director Doris Upchurch recalls. "All of this was with his bare hands, you understand. I've heard since that the most dangerous place in the world is between a microphone and Derrel Sims." If the chief investigator rarely found humor in anything he did, there was a small faction of the UFO community who rarely found anything else. "I DEFY those damnable gray devils from tampering with my life. I've dealt with them before, and I'll deal with them AGAIN! ... Just try and probe my rectum while strapped to my racks, you hideous beasts from another world!" It was a spoof just a spoof, a message sent over the Internet. For a long time, Sims' detractors were content whispering among themselves, but in the spring of 1993, they began speaking out. Max Washburn questioned the investigator's "weekend wonder" education. He thought the mass abduction was dangerous. "You don't challenge the devil," he said. Others found the central theme of the aliens versus Derrel Sims absurd. The chief investigator was not acting professionally, David Mayo said. Vince Johnson said the investigator was suffering delusions of grandeur. They were most concerned, however, with the abductions group. They didn't know what was happening in there, but Schatte believed some of those people probably needed serious help, and she and Johnson didn't think Sims qualified to supply it. When Schatte made her points and suggested a mental health professional be named to oversee the support group, an abductee rose and shouted, "Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!" things began to get ugly, but the chief investigator sat quietly through most of it. He let his abductees defend him until Rod Lewis told one of them to kiss his ass. Sims lunged across the table then "like Charles Manson on amphetamines," Lewis said, and the dissenters decided to get the hell out of there. Three years later, Rod Lewis doesn't think much about aliens anymore, but he's still scared. He thought it was possible I was working for the CIA, but "so what," he said. "If you are, fine. If you aren't, fine. If I warrant that attention, I'm flattered." He sat in his South Dairy Ashford office with his degrees arrayed behind him. He's worked mainly as a dentist, but since his break with HUFON, Dr. Lewis, as he still likes to be called, has become a full-time "new science researcher." Which means, for the most part, that he publishes a little bimonthly dealing with mind control, futurism, black rojects, "and much more." "If you lay all this out on a flow sheet you can see the links," he proceeds. That is, if you don't hold to closely to "science and physics and common sense. The first thing you have to do is put this aside and then you have to look critically." How do you do that I asked, when you've tossed out your common sense? "Well," he answered, it's a juggling act." He took pains to explain it. He talked for hours. The link on the flow chart turned out to be the government. The government lies, he said. The government is trying to control our minds. Maybe there never was a man on the moon. Maybe the government planted the bomb in Oklahoma City. And maybe, said Dr. Lewis, Derrel Sims is a government agent. The abduction support group would be the perfect screen for government experimentation, he said. Abductees tell no stories, and with Derrel at the door, there are no inquiries. Maybe it's an experiment to influence people to see what they haven't seen. Yeah, that seemed very likely to him. "In a way, this is almost as unbelievable as the alien abduction phenomenon," said the doctor. "But the difference is, I have the documents to prove this stuff exists." And he handed over some issues of his magazine, Close Encounter Chronicles. If it gets out that you're working with a chief investigator of abductions, you might get fired, the chief investigator has said, and "I do everything I can to protect the people who work with us." He has never said who examined the ocular implant at the University of Houston. He has never revealed the conclusive results. Is that thing an implant from a space alien? "Oh, good grief," says Lisa Meffert a geneticist at UH. "Is that what he's saying it is? No, most likely it's the head of a bobby pin." She said he came in all "hush-hush" claiming the thing fell out of someone's eye. Meffert assumed Sims was a lawyer with a lawsuit and didn't care to know more. She examined the "implant" under a microscope and told the chief what he had there was probably a plastic piece of a hairpiece. By then, there was already a mass abduction video, and an eerie, magnified picture of the implant had been published on the cover of a HUFON "Special Report." Sims got another opinion. He took his glob to the Texas Center for Superconductivity at UH and apparently was very pleased with the sensational service The instrument that was used -- an electron microprobe -- had a nice UFO ring to it, and the finding of rare metals certainly beat the bobby pin conclusion. If Sims had said who he was and what he thought it was, "we would have dismissed him as a loony and sent him away," said Joe Kulik at the Center. As it was, when the Post story came out the university's public affairs department got upset that the Superconductivity Center was doing implantwork, and Kulik was pretty sure no one on campus would ever deal with Derrel Sims again. That doesn't prevent Sims from dropping the university's good name into his implant show-and tells, or from implying that he's still working with someone there. But when he says, "We've got some really topnotch scientists," he's probably talking now about Warren Laboratories and David Pritchard. Sims told UFO Magazine that Warren Laboratories is "a very, very large corporation" near Houston. George Warren says it's simply a small herbal-extract business in Stafford. Warren isn't sure, but he doesn't think he's ever been abducted. He met Sims a few years ago, flying to a UFO conference, and he's been examining alien implants ever since. It's just something be believes in, he says, and he does it for free, and he's hoping he can put the chief investigator on the company payroll. Maybe they can figure out how UFOs zoom around and develop that into an alternative energy source for the country. "I want to help him live to a higher standard," said Warren. "He's a scientist out to help mankind, and I am, too." Sims has been pretty good about protecting George Warren from public scrutiny, but somehow, the chief investigator's name has appeared several times in print beside Pritchard's. A physics professor at MIT, Pritchard's latest research was published in UFO Magazine and concerned an object that reportedly fell out of a penis. His ufology work brings him scorn from his peers, but Pritchard soldiers on anyway, hoping for the day that he finds proof of aliens and can announce, "Look -- I've made a discovery as significant as Copernicus'!" About a year ago, the alien hunter tracked him down. They've communicated four or five times since, which was enough for the professor to say that Sims is "going about this more credibly than most." Rather than picking things out of beds and off the ground, Pritchard thinks it far more sensible to look for implants where they were planted. Sims has invited him to the next set of surgeries, and the professor says, "I'm sort of standing by to help in any way I can." In June 1995, Sims was out in California, shaking hands at a UFO convention. It took a while to introduce himself. By then, the chief investigator of abductions was also the director of physical investigations. "Kinda looked screwy to me," Dr. Roger Leir recalls. "Who walks around carrying a box full of implants and a bag full of X-rays?" But they got to talking anyway. The podiatrist remained unimpressed until Derrel Sims produced a University of Houston lab report. A "credible university" with a finding of rare metals -- "that sort of perked up my ears," Leir says. Then his eyebrows were raised "to a considerable height" as he examined X-rays of what Sims called "anomalous objects." Sims handed him an X-ray of a foot it just so happened that Leir was a podiatrist. Right then and there, Leir volunteered to oust that implant, and he has since been named medical director of Saber Enterprises. You can get the video now for $30, wherever you see the chief investigator. It starts with him and ends with him, but in between, there's footage of an honest-to-god, flesh-slicing surgery, one implant coming out as it supposedly went in. The woman's face is never shown, but she was one of Derrel Sims' abductees, and though her implant was causing her no pain, she wanted it out of her big toe badly enough to travel to an unknown land and bleed. "The toe was numbed by a needle, and there beside her in Leir's California office, wearing a surgical cap, was the chief investigator providing the hypnoanesthesia. "Every breath you exhale, it's all the tension of the day just gone," Sims whispered. "Let it go. That's right, just give it up. And as it happens, I want you to notice that your foot, the one we're going to work on, I want you to go ahead and put it in a little bucket of ice. There you go...." Leir marked the spot with a stud finder. He and his nameless assistant put a tourniquet around the toe and cut it open. Then there was blood, and they pulled the tourniquet tighter and forced the cut open and began probing with their scalpels. "That's it right there, isn't it?" said the second surgeon. "Yeah, I think so," said Leir. "We're hitting the object now," the second announced. "It has a very hard metallic feel." Leir pulled something out and wiped it in the gauze. "Is that it?" "No," said Leir. That's soft tissue." They poked and pushed and cut and squeezed. The woman was drifting farther and farther away, Derrel Sims kept saying, but after a while, he broke the reverie and asked: "Where's my implant Doctor?" Dr. Leir answered: "We're fishing, Derrel. It's like going fishing." More than an hour had passed when Leir said, "I got it," and this time he really had. It was a tiny black triangle, and the reason it had been so hard to find, Leir instantly concluded, was that "a layer of abnormal fibrous tissue" had grown around it. They were all very excited. Leir was anxious to get it to a lab. Many implants have evaporated or turned to powder in the light of day, but Leir thought he knew how to preserve this one. The chief investigator took the implant home, packed in the patient's own blood. He soon announced that it glowed green under a black light but eight months later, "at press time," UFO Magazine reported, pieces lingered at the unnamed lab pending official analysis." HUFON's outcasts call themselves SPUFON now, which stands for nothing, except their refusal to take anyone seriously. They gather for breakfast occasionally. Over pancakes and coffee, they discuss UFOs and alien abduction. There's something to it they say, but no one knows what it is, and no one will ever know, if the likes of Derrel Sims keep scaring the serious people away. "Derrel's implants have never been fully analyzed and they never will be," Schatte concludes, "because once they're proven to be dirt off the floor, he can't make any money on it." But whether or not they've examined the Implants, experts are growing interested in the work of Dr. Leir and Derrel Sims. A California ethics board is investigating the necessity of implant surgery. In Texas, an expert on ethics thinks it's possible that Sims is practicing psychology without a license. The chief investigator knew nothing about his new fans in April. With 70 members of the Houston UFO Network, he was sitting in the dark, gazing at pictures of rotting cows. "I'm not going to dwell too much longer on unusual animal death," the speaker said, but he did it anyway, to the point that even the chief investigator got up and took a break. He was in the lobby when I found him. Chief, I said, it's not looking good. Are you sure you don't want to talk to me? Not a chance. If you write an unflattering story, he said, "all it's going to do is make you look like an ass." And that was that. He turned his back then and began talking to whomever would listen. He told about the five surgeries scheduled for May, the report he's writing for MIT, the July conference where he'll sit beside Bud Hopkins and the charity he just founded to finance his research. He was interrupted at last when a middle-aged man with immaculate hair stepped forward, rubbing his thumb. The fellow only knew that he had been watching the surgery video, and the next morning, he had wakened with a pain he didn't understand. "Watch it come up right here," he said, rubbing harder. "I push on it and it gets redder and redder and then becomes a triangle." The chief investigator leaned over and investigated the man's thumb. Yeah, could be something was in there all right, but he would a need a thumb X-ray to know for sure. He gave the name of a chiropractor who does that sort of thing. "You just say, 'Derrel sent me,' and he'll smile at you and say, 'Come on in." ============================================================ "Your imagination is your preview of life's coming attractions. " - -Albert Einstein ============================================================ "The resistance to a new idea increases by the square of it's importance." - -Bertram Russel ============================================================ If today is the first day of the rest of your life, what the hell was yesterday? ============================================================ "Knowlege is the antidote to fear." --Emmerson ============================================================ The best way to destroy an enemy is to change them into a friend ============================================================ "Propaganda is successful only when a person absorbs its idea-content without being aware of it. Propaganda is aimed at achieving a specific end. If we have concealed its purpose effectively, he --not realizing it-- will adopt that purpose as his own." >From a lecture by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, in a German TV documentary made by historian Guido Knopp (1997, ZDC) ============================================================ "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." --Ephesians 6:12 ============================================================ "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein ============================================================ "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" --Matthew 16:26 ============================================================ -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: mrufomn@goodnet.com (Mike Spitzer)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:42:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > In the few months since joining this list, I have seen Karl issue > these positions on Jesse Marcel a few times. He brings them forth as > ritual. He sees only his interpretation of the syntax and speech > patterns used by Marcel. He makes no allowances for the foibles of a > reminiscent talk. I am sure that none of the views and information > that you have spent much time to express will be seen in his next > broadcast of these events. > So, again I ask "Why Bother???" Many of the statements by Pflock and other debunkers go far beyond mere differences of interpretation. Instead, they are transparent distortions of factual information. E.g., Pflock completely misquoted the Roswell FBI telegram to make a point. He claimed that Marcel's service evaluations indicated that he was "excitable," when there are numerous statements in the evaluations explicitly stating that he was very cool-headed and NOT excitable. One reason I go into detail is so that the debunkers can't plead ignorance anymore. If Pflock now repeats that Marcel's service evaluations say he was "excitable," then we will all know that he is deliberately lying. And somebody who would blatantly lie like that clearly has some sort of agenda. Ironically, their whole argument is that Marcel can't be trusted because he lied about his record. But when they lie about or grossly distort his record, why should we trust anything they have to say? David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:45:06 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 > >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > I sure hope you're wrong! Most of the people I know who are trying to > > get to the root of the UFO phenomenon, and all other unusual phenomena > > would consider books like these almost required reading. There are, of > > course, many others, including Manly P. Hall, Annie Besant, Alice > > Bailey, and modern writers such as Elisabeth Haich, D. Scott Rogo, J.H. > > Brennan, William R. Corliss, Joel Whitton, Ostrander and Schroeder, > > Lyall Watson, Jess Stearn, Stan Grof, Michael Talbot, etc. etc. etc. > > We've all realized that the answers to UFO's can't be found by just > > focusing on UFO books. The phenomena appears to be very related to > > phenomena in many other fields of study. > > Then again, we don't really consider ourselves as "ufologists" either! > > These types of labels only help to restrict the focus. > Folks, > I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole > lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, > shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such > enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena > appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, > but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our > correspondents are discussing here. > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > Jerry Clark Hi Jerry and List, I don't want to speak for Greg Sandow, but I believe the original idea was to suggest that the artist was incorporating some earlier abduction experience into his work as might have other artists. Back in the fifties, to suggest that you were being abducted by aliens meant a quick trip to "Belvue"(sp) and some new clothing, such as a straight jacket. There is nothing to suggest that the abduction phenomena started only with Betty and Barney Hill, but like the UFO phenomena itself probably goes back much farther than suspected. Artists have been painting images of their dreams and their interpretations of society's delemma since the first artist used charcoal to make images on cave walls. It comes as no surprise to me that this particular artist, perhaps tortured by these visitations and having no outlet as abductees have today, chose to vent his frustration on his canvas. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Alfred's Odd Odd #162 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:19:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:46:18 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Odd #162 Apology to MW #162 (For July 30, 1997)=20 I'm assuming the mantle of UFO poet! I'm wresting it from lifeless fingers! Whoever it is that would claim the distinction. . . . . .Comes the usurper, comes the storm bringer! Suggested in private by one who is nameless, I'll let h-- be the one to tell you. I'll give you a hint that we're more than just sentient There is more than your faith, there is more to what's true. There is living your life as you know you should live. There is learning with an open mind. Toleration, acceptance, and secrets unraveled -- Reason's kingdom here at hand, reason mean and kind! Reason beyond mere confinements of science. Reason alive with the passions of men. Reason aware at the power of women. . . Power unused in culture's 'pretend'. =20 Intense and concerned I get in your face!=20 I show the harsh reality! Time is short, and we have the means, To restructure our society. Pretend for a moment you're the worst kind of neighbor. You're starving your kids, and assaulting your wife. You're cheating your friends, and you're weakly unfaithful -- Corrosive to friendships that have a short life! So what do you have that, then, recommends you To neighbors unseen that you had all along? Just some folks, out of mind, 'round the corner of thinking. . . . . .Didn't know they were there as they watched you act wrong. They were there watching -- when you crapped in your bed, And then pushed it down with your feet. They were there watching as you poured noxious toxin . . . On your Mother's pristine breast -- watched it trickle down her street. They were there watching -- you infected your brother With a dreaded syphilitic disease. They were there watching, you insulted your sister You sold her short on everything -- and made her subject to decree. Any wonder Watchers hiding from the loathsome likes of you? Any wonder they avoid our introduction?=20 Any wonder they stay hidden in their safe, and secret places? Any wonder they don't share their grand instruction? Look what you do to your own family members! Look what you do to despise and decry! Look what you do to the _least_ of your family! Why should neighbors show themselves? Why _should_ they dare to try? I'm the UFO poet for all the right reasons! I know what the job entails! I'm not a fringe kook, or a pandering crook, I'm just knowing my hammers from nails. And I'll wear the mantle proudly flashing crests of Alien View; I'll listen as the bunkies whine and prattle. I'll sift and savor evidence, as it happens in it's time I'll not follow with the sheeple, or the cattle. =20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com And I -- "know that there is more to heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio"! --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for taking the first Alien View. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:49:28 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:48:40 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe >speculations like the above consume attention more productively >spent in actual study of UFO reports. >Jerry Clark I offer this at least half seriously...but maybe we ought to start a UFO book club? We could agree on a particular classic or new title, give everyone interested a couple of weeks or a month to read same, and then open up the mikes for a bare-knuckles discussion. In the meantime, book club or no, I recommend everyone read John Fowles's "The Faggot." Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:05:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:52:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At By > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:44:03 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed At > By Scientists > >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Roswellian 'Unearthly' Silicon Scoffed > At By > Scientists > >Give Russell VernonClark the benefit of the doubt for not having > wished to > >stay around for the press conference, after seeing what a media > circus the > >Roswell event was, and realizing that it would upset his colleagues > all > >the more if he attended. > >Jim Deardorff > Dear Jim: > Part of the reason _why_ it was a media circus was precisely because > whoever > was behind the "press conference" _made_ it a media circus. Every > reporter > who checked into the Convention Center for a press pass -- some 300 > from 15 > countries -- found the following "Media Alert" from the PR firm of > Abrams-Rubaloff & Lawrence in their press kit: ...snip... > I repeat: A-R&L _created_ the media circus, and they did it under false > pretenses. _No press conference was held, nor was one ever > intended_. > Derrell Sims, Roger Leir, Chris Wyatt and Russell VernonClark were > all whisked out the back door of the auditorium and into a waiting car, > while the press had been told that the press conference would follow the > presentation, and would be held in the lobby in the front of the > building. > (To their credit, Paul Davids and Jesse Marcel, Jr. did face the > press.) > This was the way it was planned from the start, and this is the way > it was orchestrated and carried out. No press conference was ever > intended. ...snip... > In the meantime, whoever perpetrated the original "press conference" > has a considerable backlog of questions to answer. > If you want to see what VernonClark himself has to say about the > fragment between appearances on the Art Bell Show, try: > http://www-chem.ucsd.edu/~ruvernon/Odds.n.ends/Analysis/talk > Dennis After a mad dash across 400 miles of Texas scrub brush, following a near spontaneous urge to attend the, as expected, Roswell 50th anniversary Street Circus and extravaganza on pennies a day, I almost reluctantly, not expecting to learn much, entered the Roswell UFO Museum and Research Center. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the directors were offering a weekend full of free presentations and questions with many of the principle writers, researchers, and witnesses. Sunday afternoon wrapped up with an unplanned presentation by Paul Davids and Derrel Sims. There openings remarks were a prolonged and detailed apology for the press conference on Friday. They claimed that the public relations firm that they had hired orchestrated the presentation and instructed them to leave quickly without taking questions. Having paid for the media advice, they, with some reservation, went along with the plan. They knew that their data was not ready for public release, and they knew that many of the academic researchers analyzing the material were becoming wary of widespread knowledge of their involvement. Stanton Friedman harangued them (in a continuing, supportive, fellow researcher kind of way) with his suggestion that they only use forensic testing laboratories. And when audience questions were taken, I suggested that they and their researchers were being presented as bumpkins from where I was watching. I then suggested that they simply stay quiet until they had corroborative reports from laboratories that would publicly stand behind their work... They appeared receptive to the criticism. Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:55:26 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole > lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, > shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such > enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena > appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, > but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our > correspondents are discussing here. > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > Jerry Clark Jerry, You're of course free to restrict your own interests however you wish, but here are some reasons why I, and no doubt others on this List, must include a wide range of occultism as par for the course in studying the UFO phenomenon. Consider the fact that UFOs can make sharp right-angle turns, and accelerate at a hundred times g and more. That's very occult, but of course very much related to the UFO phenomenon. If we don't worry about that particular any more, it's only because we've grown used to reports of such after 50 years. Here "occult" is used in either its 2nd Random-House Dictionary definition: beyond the range of ordinary understanding, or its first definition: pertaining to magic (as in ET magic). But of course, such occultism or "magic" is only to be expected, as was long ago voiced by A. C. Clark and seconded by Carl Sagan. If a few scientists think they may have gained a glimmer of how it can be done, in the past few years, using materials that can somehow provide gravitational shielding, the majority still certainly don't, and wouldn't know how the effects of inertia could be negated. Or consider the capability of many a UFO to suddenly vanish from sight, even in broad daylight. That's very occult. As you know, they can also become or remain invisible to radar; if that's no longer considered occult it's only because we've developed (maybe partially through reverse engineering of crashed disks?) craft such as the Stealth bomber that are mostly invisible to radar. Or consider the ability of UFO craft to beam aliens and humans up or down a "solid" sort of beam of light, a la the Travis Walton and Linda Cortile cases. That's extraordinarily occult. How can the UFO investigator simply ignore something like that? That's like trying to ignore the obvious fact that the aliens are far ahead of us in their science & technology. Or consider that the aliens speak to their abductees/contactees nearly ubiquitously via some form of mental telepathy. Ufologists haven't been able to ignore that for many years now. Can one get more occult than that? Or consider the many scores of cases on record where a person with a serious medical ailment was cured nearly instantaneously after having a close contact or abduction event with a UFO. These resemble nothing as much as psychic healings that have occurred "normally" without UFO intervention but have been rare and not understood by medical science, hence they are also occult. Must ufologists turn a blind eye to that as well? If UFOs have visited Earth in past centuries, millennia and ages, and interested ufologists can relate some of these past events to the present UFO phenomenon, they should not be discouraged from doing that either. That takes one into the topics of how our various civilizations and many of our religions got initiated, the latter at least being connected to beliefs of persons worldwide, and therefore of great present interest. Fairies, elves and such probably fit in here somewhere. I'm sure you got the point without having had to read the last 5 or 6 paragraphs; you've been in this business longer than I have. But it might have more meaning for you if you were to consider that these occult byproducts of the UFO phenomenon are the same thing as UFO events of "high strangeness." Hynek probably preferred not to call them "occult" so as not to upset fellow astronomers and scientists any more than necessary. Ufology is not so much a branch of occultism as a phenomenon embodying occultism. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 LA Exhibition: Identities From Outer Space From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:53:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:58:55 -0400 Subject: LA Exhibition: Identities From Outer Space Found on the site of the Los Angeles Times at: http://www.latimes.com/sbin/my_iarecord.pl?NS-doc-path=/httpd/docs/HOME/ COMMUN/NEWS/ZONE03A/t00006570244.html&NS-doc-offset=2&NS-collection=Dail yNews&NS-search-set=/var/tmp/33dfb/aaaa001pAdfb687& Thursday, July 24, 1997 Contact Lenses 'Are We Touched' examines images and identities that come from elsewhere. By ZAN DUBIN, Times Staff Writer HUNTINGTON BEACH--Yogi and Barnacle Bill won't be dropping by, but Marty the Man From Mars will. Likewise, although NASA's Alpha Proton X-ray Spectrometer is analyzing subatomic particles on Mars, sensitive detection devices will be on the lookout for signs of life as we might not know it right here on the third gaseous ball from the sun. Indeed, nobody'll need a Titan booster to locate the array of gallactica in "Are We Touched: Identities From Outer Space," an ambitious exhibition opening Sunday at the Huntington Beach Art Center. >From humanoid pods to glowing starships to abduction accounts, the timely show's artworks, artifacts and photographs reveal what formally trained and self-taught artists, visionaries, inventors and others have been thinking about saucerama, even as the land rover Sojourner transmits its rocky shots. "I'm interested in how certain ideas, like the UFO phenomenon, cross various borders," said the show's curator, Tyler Stallings, "and how they are manifest through creative energy, whether it's [that of] a visionary artist or a fine artist or a motel designer." The first single exhibition to fill all three galleries at the 2-year-old center, "Are We Touched" intentionally coincides with the Independence Day Mars landing, said Stallings, the venue's programming director. He also had in mind the recent 50th anniversary of the alleged UFO crash near Roswell, N.M., when he began scouring galleries, artists' studios and Web sites a year ago for examples of high and low art. "The show also came out of my interest as an artist," Stallings said in a recent interview at the center. "I'd been making a series of customized astronaut suits." * * * The 80-piece exhibit contains such artifacts of popular culture as Marty the Man From Mars (a Spock-eared, cutout face mask from a '50s Wheaties box) and a photo of Arizona's aptly named Space Age Lodge. Pamphlets on display explain beliefs of UFO groups, such as El Cajon's Unarius Academy of Science, which claims that Atlantis will resurface in 2001 as a landing pad for 33 spacecraft, each carrying 1,000 higher life forms. And 35 minutes of taped news footage recounts the Heaven's Gate mass suicide, from the moment the UFO-believing cult members' bodies were discovered earlier this year to a "60 Minutes" interview with the relatives. >From the contemporary-art world, via established Southland galleries, comes an eerily futuristic spaceship by Jason Rogenes, a pearlescent, brain-like pod by Eric Johnson and a heavy-duty space dress created by Jacqueline Dreager, whose father designed the Martians' distinctive one-eyed spaceships for the 1953 movie "The War of the Worlds." New York graphic artist David Huggins, who asserts that he's had sex with numerous pointy-chinned alien women and fathered their almond-eyed alien babies, supplies the figurative canvases he painted to document the encounters initiated by an "insect being," he said by phone recently. "The insect being, which resembles a praying mantis, would bring [alien] women to my apartment, and we'd have intercourse," Huggins, 53, said from his desk at Merryll Lynch & Co. "He put me in a paralyzed state, and I'd lay in my bed not being able to move. Then the woman would melt me, I'd reach my climax, and, well, then they would get up and leave." Huggins asked to see his offspring when one of the alien women informed him on a subsequent trip of their existence. "I laid on my bed," he said, "and passed out, and the next thing I know is that I'm there, wherever they are, with the babies." * * * Not all "Are We Touched" participants believe in E.T.s with such an "unsettling sense of conviction," as a New York Times critic wrote of a group show that included Huggins' work. Some don't believe at all, and Stallings isn't out to pose the question. Rather, his interest lies in the link between what he sees as ufology's quest for spiritual transcendence and art's transformative capacity to open new vistas. "UFOs, because of their unknown origin, act as these popular ambiguous objects, upon which to project ideas, that can open us up to higher levels of consciousness," Stallings said. A work of art, "unknowable" in the sense that it may have many different or ambiguous interpretations, "can remind us to continue to look at the unknowable and to search for the meaning of life." Psychologist Carl Jung linked visual imagery, ufology and a spiritual search, Stallings added, in theorizing that the archetypal flying saucer shape represents a psychic need for wholeness and order. "Weltering confusion," Jung wrote in 1958, "is held together by the protective circle." An obsessive need drove artist Eric Johnson to build a 10-foot-diameter flying saucer in his Laguna Beach backyard, although, unlike Huggins, he doesn't know whether that need was artistically, psychologically or otherworldly inspired. "I'm not one of those people who think they've been abducted," said Johnson, 48, "but it's still hard for me to figure what's out there and what's not." * * * Conversely, the UC Irvine alum, who now lives in Santa Monica, is sure that some who consider themselves eyewitnesses to extraordinary events have been misled. Years ago, Johnson said in an interview at his studio, he loaded his gleaming white UFO (now owned by a sci-fi shop) onto a UCI truck and drove north on the San Diego Freeway for fun. "You'd be surprised how many people carry cameras with them," he said. "We could see the flashes. And I'm sure they told their friends, 'Flying saucers do exist! I'll tell you why.' " Stallings has divided the show into three categories and put Johnson's work in "Between," for artists who have had some sort of alien or paranormal experience but can't define it. Also in that group are Davis & Davis, Van Nuys collaborators whose detection devices will sound an alarm should UFOs fly over the center. The category "Distance," whose members are intrigued but don't believe, includes Perry Vasquez and Randall Evans, who have collaborated for years under the name Apollo 13. Their darkly humorous "Plan 9 From Aztlan" uses "aliens" as a synonym for illegal immigrants. The piece looks like a poster for a cheesy '50s sci-fi film, when spacemen were often viewed as scary invaders, Vasquez said by phone from his San Diego studio. It was done "a couple years ago, when lots of Chicano artists were saying, 'Wow, illegal immigrants are being called aliens, and it's like the paranoia of the '50s, redux.' " Those in the show's "Immersion" category are true believers, making works that are both art and artifact, Stallings said. Huggins' paintings qualify, the curator said, as do Ionel Talpazan's drawings, which are "aesthetically beautiful but also [are] diagrams of the UFOs" in which he was abducted. Sound crazy? Stallings knows some visitors will think so, which he finds ironic. "Artists are supposed to be pursing crazy things, so to speak, yet when they do, it's often unacceptable." BE THERE "Are We Touched: Identities From Outer Space," opens Sunday at the Huntington Beach Art Center, 538 Main St. Gallery hours: Tue. and Wed., noon-6 p.m.; Thur.-Sat., noon-8 p.m.; Sun., noon-4 p.m. Through Sept. 21. $2-$3. (714) 374-1650. Copyright Los Angeles Times
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Mars Rocks Are Red, White And Blue From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:06:11 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:59:39 -0400 Subject: Mars Rocks Are Red, White And Blue Found on the site of the Las Vegas Sun at: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/thrive/1997/jul/29/072900354.html Science and Health July 29, 1997 Mars Rocks are Red, White, Blue ASSOCIATED PRESS BOSTON (AP) -- America's Pathfinder spacecraft is finding red, white and blue rocks and three different types of soil at its landing site on Mars, researchers report. In a report Monday to a meeting of the American Astronomical Society, Peter Smith of the University of Arizona said Pathfinder pictures taken with different filters show a faint bluish tint on one side of exposed rocks, while the other side of the rocks is a typical Martian red. Some partially buried rocks, he said, are a whitish color and may actually be layers of a hard material called caliche, a calcium carbonate rock material common in Arizona. Pathfinder landed on Mars July 4 and has taken hundreds of photographs. The craft's rover is creeping across the planet surface, examining rocks and soil along the way. In panorama photos taken by Pathfinder of its landing site, there is a striking two-color appearance on dozens of rocks, Smith said. "You divide the scene into two parts -- the red part and the blue part," he said. "There is a very clear difference between the red side and the blue side." Smith said that the blue side is on the east side of the rocks, suggesting that the sometime-ferocious wind storms on Mars may have scoured off a layer, uncovering the color. The west side of the rocks, protected from the wind, are red, probably from layers of Martian soil, he said. "The strong wind comes through and it could have sandblasted the one side of these rocks," he said. It could have happened from one huge storm, or "it could have happened gradually over millions of years." Tracks made by the wheels of the Pathfinder's small rover, Sojourner, have revealed that in some places around the Pathfinder is a thin layer of reddish soil on top of white rock that could be caliche, Smith said. "If you had a broom you might be able to sweep the dust off and find a whole layer of rock there," Smith said. Sojourner operators have intentionally spun the wheels of the small vehicle to churn up the soil. Scientists then analyzed how the dirt slumps to determine its texture. Smith said they have found three types of soils within the small area that Sojourner has explored. "There is a type that is like fine grained beach sand," said Smith. Another soil is blocky and dense, "something like adobe." The third soil type is powdery and loose, "something like kitchen flour." Drifts and depressions bear evidence of a massive flood that once coursed through the Pathfinder site, and there is other evidence water was once present, Smith said. "There appears to be the remains of a puddle. The water probably evaporated a billion years ago and the pattern is still there," he said. Pathfinder instruments have detected virtually no water at the landing site now. "It is bone dry," he said. "There isn't any place on Earth that is this dry." Pictures do show clouds, probably from water, in the skies over the site. Each Martian dawn sky photographed by Pathfinder has included thin copper-colored wisps that Smith said are clouds of water vapor. The clouds, however, burn off as the Martian day advances. All contents copyright 1997 Las Vegas SUN, Inc. Portions copyright 1997 Associated Press. This page last modified Tuesday, July 29, 1997 22:02:16
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Do your own SETI Search - Microsoft Builds UFO From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:28:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:00:55 -0400 Subject: Do your own SETI Search - Microsoft Builds UFO Found at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=3D000239087618192&rtmo=3D33df8f8d&atmo= =3D3 3df8f8d&pg=3D/et/97/7/15/ecnibs15.html The links are in brackets. Electronic Telegraph Tuesday 15 July 1997 Issue 781 =20 News =20 (SETI) *snip* Minding the gap 3 *snip* Hunt the alien Ever wanted to go looking for alien life forms? Well, soon you'll be able to take part in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) from home, using a PC and special screensaver software that downloads chunks of radio telescope data and analyses it while the PC is idle. The scheme, called SETI@home, is expected to start next year . UFO flops Microsoft is said to have built its own flying saucer at a rumoured cost of $1.5 million to promote a conference for games programmers. The idea was that the UFO and guest appearances by X-Files stars Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny would spur software companies to write games for Windows 95. But the conference was scrapped due to lack of interest, and the saucer is now thought to be languishing in a Seattle warehouse. =A9 Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1997. Terms & Conditions of reading.=20 Information about Telegraph Group Limited and Electronic Telegraph.=20 "Electronic Telegraph" and "The Daily Telegraph" are trademarks of Telegraph Group Limited. These marks may not be copied or used without permission. Information for webmasters linking to Electronic Telegraph.=20 (Email Electronic Telegraph). =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Aurora-Roswell Anniversary From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:46:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:01:39 -0400 Subject: Aurora-Roswell Anniversary This one is a month old, but it is very interesting and I haven't seen it elsewhere. It was found at:=20 http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=3D000239087618192&rtmo=3D33df905c&atmo= =3D3 3df905c&pg=3D/et/97/6/28/tlufo28.html The links are in brackets. Electronic Telegraph Saturday 28 June 1997 Issue 764 =20 =20 Seeing the light One hundred years since the first sighting, UFO mania is becoming almost a religion for Americans, reports James Langton THE WAY Charlie Stephens would tell it, the flying machine, airship - call it what you will - came right over his head just after dawn. It was moving kinda slow and disappeared towards the ridge of hills a few miles north. Then there was an explosion and a real bright light. Young Charlie was 10 at the time and driving the cattle to pasture with his Daddy. Curiosity got the better of the youngster and he wanted to rush off and see what all the fuss was about. "But Daddy said we had to finish our chores." The next day, though, Mr Stephens snr saddled up his horse and rode off to town. He came back with a story of burnt wreckage and torn metal. And if he heard talk about the body, he never told, not being the sort to speak of what he hadn't seen with his own eyes. Two days after the crash, the Dallas Times Herald carried a fuller version of the story. According to its correspondent, the inhabitants of the small north Texas town of Aurora "were astonished at the sudden appearance of the airship which has been travelling over much of the country. "It was travelling due north and much nearer the earth than before. Evidently some of the machinery was out of order, for it was making a speed of only 10 or 12 miles an hour and gradually settling towards the earth. "It sailed over the public square and when it reached the northern part of town collided with the tower of Judge Proctor's windmill and went to pieces with a terrific explosion, scattering debris over several acres of ground, wrecking the windmill and water tank and destroying the judge's flower garden. "The pilot of the ship is supposed to have been the only one aboard, and while his remains are badly disfigured, enough of the original has been picked up to show that he was not an inhabitant of this world." The report was dated April 19, 1897, and by then the remains had been examined by T. J. Weems, a US Signal Service officer in the area and an enthusiastic amateur astronomer. From the body, and papers "written in some unknown hieroglyphics", Weems deduced the pilot "was a native of the planet Mars". The next day, a similar account in The Fort Worth Register noted that "the pilot, who was not of this world, was given Christian burial in Aurora cemetery". The past 100 years have not been kind to Aurora, a scattering of ranch houses about 20 miles north-west of Fort Worth. There is not much more than the two signs on Highway 114 to show you have entered the town, and one of those is for the cemetery. A dead dog rots by the roadside, just below the scrub-covered bluff where Judge Proctor's windmill once stood. Somewhere between a low brick bungalow and the rutted track to the town baseball park is the crash site of the Aurora UFO, now covered by wild cactus, coarse grass and the fading blooms of Texas blue bonnets. Jim Marrs guns his pick-up truck down the cemetery road. He is looking for the grave of the Aurora alien, a task made difficult after the headstone was stolen in mysterious circumstances 25 years ago, when Marrs first investigated the long-forgotten crash with Bill Case, a local journalist. Photographs of the grave show a crumbling fragment of sandstone. Half seems to be missing, but the remaining fragment has a roughly carved "V" turned on its side and three or four little circles inside. If the missing half matched, you would have the crude approximation of a flying saucer. Case, now dead, ran a metal detector over the grave and found three large lumps of something. That was when the local folk began to worry, in Marrs' words, "That we might be going to dig up grandma." So Town Marshal H R "Pig" Idell rode shotgun on the grave with his deputies for a couple of weeks. When the fuss died down, the Marshal ended his patrols and the next night the tombstone was stolen. Marrs suspects an official cover-up. Perhaps by the same people who drilled three neat holes into the turf and removed the metal underneath. ******* With his white beard and an accent that twangs like a steel guitar, Marrs looks more than a little like Texas' answer to Dickie Attenborough. He lives a few miles down the road, at the end of an unmarked track in a rambling house he built himself. It was here that he wrote Crossfire, the best-selling conspiracist account of the Kennedy assassination. The director Oliver Stone optioned Crossfire as the basis for his film JFK. Now Marrs has written Alien Agenda, a definitive history of UFO sightings down the years. According to Marrs, the great UFO debate is over; for him the question is not "Are they here?" but "Who are they and what do they want?".=20 In 1973 Marrs interviewed the only three people then alive who remembered the Aurora crash. Charlie Stephens, then 86 and in failing health was one. Mary Evans, then 92, was 15 at the time of the crash. Her parents had gone into town to see the crash site and returned with stories of an exploding airship and a pilot "torn up and killed. The men of the town who gathered up his remains said he was a 'small man' ," she told Marrs. There was also Robbie Hanson, 12 years old when a man rode by with the story. According to Robbie, the crash was a hoax; Judge Proctor never even had a windmill. Jim Marrs says you can take your choice. Whether you believe the evidence of the Aurora incident depends on what he calls "your mindset". Public interest in unidentified flying objects has never been greater. Alien Agenda is no exercise in vanity publishing, but a heavily promoted hardback from HarperCollins. The current Hollywood love affair with UFOs, which began with Independence Day last year, continues this summer with Men in Black (a Government cover-up, aliens as bad guys) and Contact (a Government cover-up, aliens as good guys).=20 By one of those neat arithmetical coincidences (coincidence? Hah!) the centenary of Aurora is followed next week by the 50th anniversary of the flying saucer; that is, the afternoon of June 24, 1947 when Kenneth Arnold, a businessman and private pilot from Boise, Idaho found himself trailing a formation of high-speed objects and later, struggling to describe them to a local newspaper reporter, said that they "flew like a saucer". Arnold estimated their speed at 1,300 mph - twice the speed of any conventional aircraft in 1947. In fact, pilots had been reporting mysterious flying objects for some years. RAF and USAF pilots had seen glowing balls following their planes on missions over Germany which they dubbed "foo-fighters". They were thought to be Nazi secret weapons until after the war, when it was discovered that Luftwaffe pilots had also seen them and thought they were the Allies'. But Arnold's UFOs that "flew like a saucer" caught the public's imagination. When, 10 days later, the information officer for the 509th Bomb Group announced that the authorities had recovered a "flying disc" that had crashed in the desert outside Roswell, New Mexico, mania became hysteria. The military authorities at Roswell reacted quickly, replacing the "flying disc" story with one about the wreckage of a crashed weather balloon (the US Government admitted three years ago that this was also a lie: the "real" Roswell crash concerned a top-secret chain of "spy" balloons). Reports of flying saucers continued undiminished. Project Blue Book, the official US air force monitoring programme begun in the summer of 1947, recorded several thousand sightings by the time it was disbanded in 1969, of which nearly a quarter could not be explained.=20 ******* The UFO scare of 1897 has an innocence missing from those which begin half a century ago. The machines in the sky are objects of curiosity in a West that was opening up a world of wonders, both natural and technological. The UFO mythology of recent years is something else. A popular sociological explanation links the stories of the threat from the skies, of abductions and cattle mutilations, to the paranoia of the Cold War. What is particularly interesting is that the current obsession dates not from 1947, but 1972, the 25th anniversary of Roswell. Why should Roswell strike such a chord after so long? The American media this week has been full of another quarter-century anniversary, that of the Watergate break-in, which taught the American public that it could not trust its leaders. If the reaction to Nixon's frailties was disbelief and disillusion, then Clinton produces a weary cynicism. How easy, these days, to conceal almost anything. So why should the US Government come clean about the fleet of crashed UFOs it has stored in secret military installations? Jim Marrs claims that the Moon might be an alien base, much like the Star Wars Death Star. He has an official NASA video taken on a 1993 shuttle mission which shows distant lights rising though the Earth's atmosphere and manoeuvering into formation. Several accelerate into deep space after a bright flash off camera. Marrs says we may have been routinely firing at UFO intruders using ray guns placed in orbit during the Reagan "Star wars" programme. NASA says they are ice crystals. Ready for the next instalment? Colonel Philip Corso is a retired senior officer with a distinguished service record. He served both President Eisenhower and in the Pentagon under Kennedy. Col Corso has just published an account of those years in which he claims to have secretly "seeded" technological marvels recovered from the crashed UFO at Roswell to American industry. Lasers, fibre optics and integrated circuit chips are said to be some of the results. ******* Some might say Col Corso is either a fantasist or simply barking. Others readily believe him, like the estimated 100,000 UFO enthusiasts preparing to gather in New Mexico on the weekend of July 4, an event dubbed "Weirdstock" by the same American media that happily reprints the latest flying saucer sightings. Somehow these are never conclusive. The most recent have several thousand apparently sober Americans watching a huge and mysterious craft passing over Arizona on the night of March 13. Yet there are no photos, nothing more than a few fuzzy video images. Perhaps it is, after all, a question of belief. In an age of religious uncertainty, the arrival of space ships from the stars offers a spiritual alternative for the age of science.=20 No wonder those who most vociferously condemn the new cult of the UFO are church leaders. At least the aliens of 100 years ago were given a Christian burial. (25 January 1997: Eight-inch 'man' in Israeli UFO mystery) (20 April 1997: When green children fell to planet Earth) (3 April 1997: UFOs brought to earth with a bump) =20 =A9 Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1997. Terms & Conditions of reading.=20 Information about Telegraph Group Limited and Electronic Telegraph.=20 "Electronic Telegraph" and "The Daily Telegraph" are trademarks of Telegraph Group Limited. These marks may not be copied or used without permission. Information for webmasters linking to Electronic Telegraph.=20 (Email Electronic Telegraph). =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: meccam@erols.com Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:17:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:02:56 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 > >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Folks, > I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole > lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, > shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such > enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena > appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, > but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our > correspondents are discussing here. > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > Jerry Clark I agree. Being cognizant of those authors and their subjects does not necessarily imply that one should be non-discriminating in one's classifications of "ETs" versus "anything else." Melanie - an apple is an apple, a pear is a pear, and a watermelon is a watermelon. They may all be fruits (like us! :) ) but characteristics are different > \_______________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:51:19 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 > >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > I sure hope you're wrong! Most of the people I know who are trying to > > get to the root of the UFO phenomenon, and all other unusual phenomena > > would consider books like these almost required reading. There are, of > > course, many others, including Manly P. Hall, Annie Besant, Alice > > Bailey, and modern writers such as Elisabeth Haich, D. Scott Rogo, J.H. > > Brennan, William R. Corliss, Joel Whitton, Ostrander and Schroeder, > > Lyall Watson, Jess Stearn, Stan Grof, Michael Talbot, etc. etc. etc. > > We've all realized that the answers to UFO's can't be found by just > > focusing on UFO books. The phenomena appears to be very related to > > phenomena in many other fields of study. > > Then again, we don't really consider ourselves as "ufologists" either! > > These types of labels only help to restrict the focus. > Folks, > I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole > lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, > shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such > enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena > appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, > but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our > correspondents are discussing here. > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > Jerry Clark Jerry: I'm very disappointed with your response. First of all, nowhere did I mention, or even imply that Ufology was a "branch of occultism". I notice that you conveniently excluded all mention of the scientific pursuits which I had included in my message, nor did you even have the courtesy to mention that you had "snipped" that part out. The missed sentence read: "There is also required reading in quantum physics, astronomy, conspiracy, psychiatry, philosophy, sociology, cosmology, ancient history, archeology, geology, chemistry, mathematics, sacred geometry, theology, secret doctrine, etc.,etc., etc." This selective choosing of those parts of the data that fit preconceived beliefs is a bad habit that too many pseudo researchers seem to have, and may be partly a result of too limited a focus. This limited focus causes the researcher to deliberately exclude data that does not fit his theories. (A perfect example is the ridiculous 3-tomb theory of Egyptolologists). The points I was trying to make are; 1) many people studying the UFO phenomena are not as "unread" and literature deficient as Bob Shell seems to imply; 2) it would help to have knowledge of various disciplinary areas of study to come to try to come to some area of understanding of the UFO phenomena. You mention that UFOs are not related to other anomalous or folkloric phenomena. These are the type of sweeping statements to watch out for. How can you possibly compare something that is not yet understood with something else that is not yet understood? Comparisons such as this can be superficial at best. Who knows what unknown forces may be behind each? We've had 50 years of scientific study of UFOs. As far as I can see, we are not much further in coming to any conclusions than what was expressed in some of the older books. Most current books simply regurgitate what has been said many times before. Maybe we're so lost in the forest of ufological study that we can no longer see the fields of other disciplines that surround the forest. It may prove worthwhile to look at other sources for clues to the mystery, as well as other ways of thinking about our environment. I'm not talking about New Age channelling, Tarot card reading, occultism, or other nonsensical pursuits. I'm talking about borderline science where the possibility of new ideas may be obtained. Examples of authors include: Brian Swimme, Ken Wilber, Michael Talbot, Lyall Watson, John Gribbin, Martin Rees, J.E. Lovelock, Russell Targ, Harold Puthoff, Gary Zukav, Paul Davies, Roger Penrose, Fred Allan Wolf and Rupert Sheldrake. This doesn't mean that we should abandon traditional approaches, but that we should enhance them with new ideas. The world hasn't stood still for the last 50 years. There are phenomenal new ideas being developed every day in many fields of study, that most people don't even seem to be aware of. Physics and chemistry do not follow theories that were laid out many years ago. Physicists are beginning to prove that some form of communication exists between particles that are separated in space. Elements are being shown to have behavioural characteristics that defy identification (i.e. metals such as rhodium in high spin states are transparent to identification devices and are being identified by the trace impurities contained within it - i.e. they are being identified as silica - could this possibly explain the Roswell debris object that was currently tested and found to be silica with unusual ionization patterns?). Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously challenged. Animals are able to communicate with humans and show creative thinking processes similar to those of humans. Humans have been found to emit magnetic fields from the solar plexis while experiencing pain. I could go on and on, but the books above document my points. Oh, one other point. Some people have had UFO experiences and feel very comfortable researching the subject. Others have had very real paranormal experiences and feel very comfortable researching that subject. But others have had both UFO and paranormal experiences and feel very comfortable with the possibility that there may be some connection between the two phenomena.Since I happen to feel comfortable with the latter, I have chosen to explore th fields around the forest. Unfortunately, many of those in the paranormal field of study do not welcome those who have an interest in UFOs, and many of those in the UFO field do not welcome those who have an interest in the paranormal field. This is to say nothing of the many "camps" within those fields itself. What was that famous saying? "Divide and conquer"? John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:10:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:09:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ Hi All, On the 11.30am Independent Radio News on a local MOR radio station here in Manchester I just caught the tail end of what sounded like an interesting item. It seems a report has surfaced from the UK Govnt Communications facility, GCHQ, located near Cheltenham which confirms they were called in to monitored "unknown objects" operating over East Anglia in October of last year. The item was repeatead on the 2pm spot but gave little info and was just used as a "and finally" item. Any UK list member have more info on this report?? Best Regards Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ * * * * * * * *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:00:51 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:53:20 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:49:28 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > >speculations like the above consume attention more productively > >spent in actual study of UFO reports. > >Jerry Clark > I offer this at least half seriously...but maybe we ought to start a UFO > book club? We could agree on a particular classic or new title, give > everyone interested a couple of weeks or a month to read same, and then open > up the mikes for a bare-knuckles discussion. > In the meantime, book club or no, I recommend everyone read John Fowles's > "The Faggot." > Dennis Dennis, I join you in recommending this terrific novel -- the best literary treatment of the paranormal I have ever read -- but warn our reading audience that the title is not "The Faggot" but "A Maggot." "Maggot" is an old word for "tale." Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:28:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:34:17 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole >> lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, >> shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such >> enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena >> appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, >> but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our >> correspondents are discussing here. >> I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping >> statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. >> In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs >> do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric >> phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. >> Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, >> the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our >> time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe >> speculations like the above consume attention more productively >> spent in actual study of UFO reports. >> Jerry Clark >Jerry, >You're of course free to restrict your own interests however you wish, but >here are some reasons why I, and no doubt others on this List, must >include a wide range of occultism as par for the course in studying the >UFO phenomenon. >Consider the fact that UFOs can make sharp right-angle turns, and >accelerate at a hundred times g and more. That's very occult, but of >course very much related to the UFO phenomenon. If we don't worry about >that particular any more, it's only because we've grown used to reports of >such after 50 years. Here "occult" is used in either its 2nd Random-House >Dictionary definition: beyond the range of ordinary understanding, or its >first definition: pertaining to magic (as in ET magic). But of course, >such occultism or "magic" is only to be expected, as was long ago voiced >by A. C. Clark and seconded by Carl Sagan. I think that Clark would take issue with your interpretation of his statement, but that's really up to him to state. As I seem to recall, Clark said that technology from an advanced civilization would (or at least could) appear to be "magic" to those who couldn't understand the mechanisms involved. IMHO, it doesn't help the genre to use terminolgy that may include meanings (or interpretations) that go far beyond what is intended. The use of the work "Occult", regardless of the dictionary definition, can convey far more than what is intended. While technically accurate, it provides skeptics with a point of criticism and could adversely impact the view that some might have of the genre. To many the genre is strange enough already. >If a few scientists think they may have gained a glimmer of how it can be >done, in the past few years, using materials that can somehow provide >gravitational shielding, the majority still certainly don't, and wouldn't >know how the effects of inertia could be negated. Gaining an understanding of "How" something is done is not the same as understanding the mechanism of what must be accomplished to have the "effect" fit into your current level of understanding. "Gravitational shielding" would be an interesting approach to the problem, but I think the mechanism (as described) is more complicated than that. >Or consider the capability of many a UFO to suddenly vanish from sight, >even in broad daylight. That's very occult. As you know, they can also >become or remain invisible to radar; if that's no longer considered >occult it's only because we've developed (maybe partially through reverse >engineering of crashed disks?) craft such as the Stealth bomber that are >mostly invisible to radar. Vanishing craft can be "very occult" if you're trying to define the mechanism is magical terms. However, all of the videos of "vanishing" craft that I've seen have actually been analyzed to show that the craft left the field of view at a high rate of speed. In other words, it didn't disappear, it took off very quickly and the eye didn't have time to follow. >Or consider the ability of UFO craft to beam aliens and humans up or >down a "solid" sort of beam of light, a la the Travis Walton and Linda >Cortile cases. That's extraordinarily occult. How can the UFO >investigator simply ignore something like that? That's like trying to >ignore the obvious fact that the aliens are far ahead of us in their >science & technology. >Or consider that the aliens speak to their abductees/contactees nearly >ubiquitously via some form of mental telepathy. Ufologists haven't been >able to ignore that for many years now. Can one get more occult than >that? >Or consider the many scores of cases on record where a person with a >serious medical ailment was cured nearly instantaneously after having a >close contact or abduction event with a UFO. These resemble nothing as >much as psychic healings that have occurred "normally" without UFO >intervention but have been rare and not understood by medical science, >hence they are also occult. Must ufologists turn a blind eye to that as >well? >If UFOs have visited Earth in past centuries, millennia and ages, and >interested ufologists can relate some of these past events to the present >UFO phenomenon, they should not be discouraged from doing that either. >That takes one into the topics of how our various civilizations and many >of our religions got initiated, the latter at least being connected to >beliefs of persons worldwide, and therefore of great present interest. >Fairies, elves and such probably fit in here somewhere. >I'm sure you got the point without having had to read the last 5 or 6 >paragraphs; you've been in this business longer than I have. But it might >have more meaning for you if you were to consider that these occult >byproducts of the UFO phenomenon are the same thing as UFO events of "high >strangeness." Hynek probably preferred not to call them "occult" so as >not to upset fellow astronomers and scientists any more than necessary. >Ufology is not so much a branch of occultism as a phenomenon embodying >occultism. IMHO, the term "occult" includes connotations that are not properly descriptive of the UFO genre. To use it as a descriptor adds more meaning than intended. Our Judao-Christian heritage has alterred our view of many terms, such as "magic" and "occult". That impacts our view of a subject that is defined (in part) by those words. The question is not so much how the terminology would impact astronomers and scientists, but how it is viewed by the masses who are usually not well versed in the genre. You are correctly using the term, as defined, but that may not make it correct to use the term. Of course, that's just one more opinion from the peanut gallery.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:47:54 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:37:30 -0400 Subject: Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:10:24 +0100 > From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> > Organization: Univ Of Manchester > To: Ufo Updates List <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ > Hi All, > On the 11.30am Independent Radio News on a local MOR radio > station here in Manchester I just caught the tail end of what sounded > like an interesting item. It seems a report has surfaced from the UK > Govnt Communications facility, GCHQ, located near Cheltenham which > confirms they were called in to monitored "unknown objects" operating > over East Anglia in October of last year. The item was repeatead on > the 2pm spot but gave little info and was just used as a "and finally" > item. > Any UK list member have more info on this report?? > Best Regards > Neil. > -- The report may be related to the following (I will try to dig up some more if I get time) On the night of Saturday 5th October 1996 there were a number of reports of fast moving coloured lights seen moving over many places in East Anglia. I am only working from memory here but I believe it was stated that some of the objects were tracked on radar and also that planes were sent to intercept. A few days later the MOD published one of their standard "no defense significance" solutions. They stated that the radar recordings were distortions of the spire of Lincoln cathedral caused by strange atmospheric effects and, I think, they were saying the fast moving lights were distant lightning strikes. Its good to know that the good ol' MOD is looking out for our interests! Regards, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 The Real Phoenix Sightings From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Thursday, 31 July 1997 10:02am MT Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:43:02 -0400 Subject: The Real Phoenix Sightings After interviewing witnesses and investigating these sightings for the past four months, I can state for the record that the flare drop on the Barry Goldwater test range by Maryland National Guard A-10s of the Luu2 Magnesium flares which burn hot and bright white were not described by any witnesses I interviewed. The night that Tom King and I videotaped a formation of amber lights near the Estrellas (we could not see the test range flares many miles south of these mountains which rise to 4500 feet altitude) we could not identify these as flares through binoculars or telescope. There were no aircraft in the vicinity of these lights. The lights appeared to be small orbs or spheres through the telescope. We saw no parachutes, no smoke, and no flames. I have confirmed with a source from Davis-Monthan that the A-10s have four flares apiece. They are dropped one or two at a time from 6,000 feet and ignite at 3,000 ft and extinguish at 500 ft. The amber lights we saw did not descend any distance much less 2,500 feet before extinguishing. These very same orbs have now been taped in daylight skies and have been seen ASCENDING skyward! They have also been seen north of the city of Glendale and northwest. Richard Motzer of MUFON AZ has changed his story about these lights several times and now backs Capt. Bienz's version. That version does not explain the sightings. It is important to note that very large objects were observed on the night of March 13th. There were at least two large gray/black triangles, three luminous orbs, a large V-form, a large rectangular form, and other minor events - all of which cannot be explained by flares. One black triangle was observed by witnesses flying lightless! Kal Korff is basing his opinion, evidently, on his dislike of Jim Diletosso (who is doing a great job on this along with Michael Tanner). That is a poor basis to evaluate the sightings. Legitimate researchers investigate and interview witnesses and analyze data and events, not offer bogus explanations. The story released by the Arizona National Guard that a flight of A-10s took off from Davis-Monthan AFB and flew out to the test range on the night of March 13th to drop Luu2 magnesium flares is being hailed as a "solution" to a number of UFO sightings from Phoenix on that night. Operation Snowbird is a National Guard Bureau program located at D-M and supported through the 162nd Fighter Wing, Arizona Air National Guard. It was established in 1975 as a winter deployment site for northern tier ANG flying bases. Six to 12 squadrons deploy for two weeks of training between the months of November and April each year. Each deployment package consists of 24 pilots and 116 support personnel. On March 13th, the Maryland ANG was supposedly on site at D-M and departed D-M between 8:15 PM and 8:30 PM. Between the hours of 9:30 PM and 10 PM (on the night in question re: Perry Mason), these A-10 aircraft jettisoned their flares and returned to base. According to one pilot trainer (anon) from D-M, the flares are ejected at 6,000 feet and ignite at 3,000 feet and extinquish at 500 feet. A recent e-mail from a resident of Tucson who lives under the flight path of approaching A-10 aircraft, indicates he never heard or saw a flight of planes landing at 10 PM on that night. He says he is in the habit of hearing, then going outside to look at jets that land and he is sure that none landed at 10 PM that night. Another story out of Tucson is that the jets landed, but at 8:35 PM on that night. Now another rumor is that a pilot checked and found no record of the Maryland squadron on that night! It is possible that these people are mistaken and that the Maryland squadron took that flight as reported in the Arizona Republic. That is a possibility. To insure that we get an answer from D-M, I am filing an FOIA request for a copy of all records, documents, or logs that record departing and arriving flights for the night of March 13th between the hours of 7-11 PM. If anyone else has any knowledge in the Tucson area of the flight of these A-10s on the night of March 13th, please contact me at starmanbh@aol.com. We want to find out the truth behind this story. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Director Skywatch International
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:11:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:46:06 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:36:17 +0100 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> >Subject: UFO NewsClipping Service phone number >If anyone can help David with this request can they reply >to him direct please: >===================== >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:08:56 -0400 >From: Sandra Meret <smeret@yorku.ca >Organization: York University >To: john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk >Subject: Newsclippings >I was wondering if you had a phone number or any other info. that >would help me get in contact with the "UFO NewsClipping Service" in >Arkansas. It's on the website but they offer no contact info. I'm >producing a documentary and am in desperate need of news clippings. >Any Suggestions? [SNIP] On behalf of David I am saying a big thank you to all those people who contacted him. John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO @ http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:58:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:48:47 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Physicists are beginning to prove that some form of > communication exists between particles that are separated in space. This is not exactly a correct interpretation of the Bell theorem, or the EPR, as I understand it. > Elements are being shown to have behavioural characteristics that defy > identification (i.e. metals such as rhodium in high spin states are > transparent to identification devices and are being identified by the > trace impurities contained within it - i.e. they are being identified as > silica - could this possibly explain the Roswell debris object that was > currently tested and found to be silica with unusual ionization > patterns?). According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? What type of "spin" is being referred to here? (Quantum spin is quantized and only affects quanta, not atoms or metals) > Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > challenged. By who? According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? > Animals are able to communicate with humans and show > creative thinking processes similar to those of humans. According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? > Humans have been > found to emit magnetic fields from the solar plexis while experiencing > pain. I could go on and on, but the books above document my points. According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? I know, it sounds like a broken record. But to the best of my knowledge none of the above are currently accepted science. I'm willing to look at the evidence, but, after all, Einstein's theory, to take just one example, is one of THE most confirmed theories ever. So once I read the sentence "Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously challenged", I find it much harder to take the rest of the examples at face value and accept them as real science. One of the reasons science isn't getting done in UFOlogy, in my opinion, and one reason for the scorn in which it is held by many scientists, is because we're willing to accept stuff which should be speculation as if it were proven fact. Take the comment by another poster about the apparent lack of inertia in UFO performance. First, the idea of inertialessness is one which isn't necessarily validated by the observations. Sure, UFO's stop on a dime, and sure UFOs make rapid right angle turns. But without closely instrumented observations we can't say these are instantaneous. If they are not instantaneous, then they could very well be a manifestation of very high thrust compared to weight. Heck, we already know that UFOs can easily emit MW of power in no more than light energy. They obviously have power to burn. As for inertialessness itself, it would be no panacea. Remember that part of the "rules" of inertia are that "keeps moving in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force". Thus, inertialessness implies "no coasting" - a UFO would have to apply power at all times for any motion. And what about "inertialess air"? The attainment of laminar flow over a UFO would be much more expensive if thrust had to be constantly applied to every molecule of air traveling over the surface, rather than being able to establish laminar flow and possibly maintain fine corrections. Now, yes, the above is speculation too. But it's testable. Prove that a UFO produces an instantaneous stop without the application of energy, and you can make a much stronger case for inertialessness. However, you will need to accurately measure at all times, down to a very precise interval, the speed and energy output of the UFO. (BTW, anecdotally, the white flash frequently seen in close encounters when a UFO slows from a rapid approach to a hover might be seen as disconfirmation of inertiallessness). At any rate, making testable predictions isn't something UFOlogy has been very good at. As is frequently pointed out, ETH is not easily testable, short of capturing a UFO and finding ET isotopic ratios (and there are arguments that could even invalidate that as proof). How much harder is it to prove the "occult" hypothesis? The Williamette Pass photo, which seemed clear evidence of really non-conventional UFOs (three disks for one with one shutter opening) has been shown to be a misinterpretation of a road sign. Bedroom encounters, NDEs, etc don't seem to have enough objective value to be a proof. Psychic abilities in post-encounter witnesses have been claimed, but, to the best of my knowledge, never unambiguously demonstrated in independent labs. And except for abductions and some very unreliable single witness reports, there just don't seem sufficient reliable high- strangeness accounts to be worth going down this road, until we've done the more basic science on the hard, objective nature of the UFO. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:56:13 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:49:39 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >You're of course free to restrict your own interests however you wish, but >here are some reasons why I, and no doubt others on this List, must >include a wide range of occultism as par for the course in studying the >UFO phenomenon. This is true, of course, provided you confine the use of the word to a specific meaning, which is neither popular nor common use. "Occult" to most people means mysticism, witchcraft, demons and ghosts, etc. with an emphasis on non-corporeal supernatural entities. It is in this context "occultism" is used when people attempt to associate it with UFOs, implicating there is a common paranormal cause (with no real physical reality) underlying most or all of these experiences. There's no evidence for such a relationship in any case. Your denotation of "occult" and the manner in which other people are using the word are vastly different, and rationalizing one definition doesn't automatically make the other applicable or true, any Valleean protests notwithstanding. Let's use some common sense, people. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:00:06 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time refuting nonsense. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:31:30 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:24:09 -0700 > > >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > Folks, > > I'm all for restricting the focus. Having spent a whole > > lot of time studying the question -- and even, long ago, > > shared sentiments generally like those expressed with such > > enthusiasm above -- I see no evidence that the "phenomena > > appears [sic] to be very related [not just related, note, > > but "very" related] to phenomena" of the sorts our > > correspondents are discussing here. > > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > > Jerry Clark > Jerry: > I'm very disappointed with your response. First of all, nowhere did I > mention, or even imply that Ufology was a "branch of occultism". I > notice that you conveniently excluded all mention of the scientific > pursuits which I had included in my message, nor did you even have the > courtesy to mention that you had "snipped" that part out. The missed > sentence read: > "There is also required reading in quantum physics, astronomy, > conspiracy, psychiatry, philosophy, sociology, cosmology, ancient > history, archeology, geology, chemistry, mathematics, sacred geometry, > theology, secret doctrine, etc.,etc., etc." > This selective choosing of those parts of the data that fit preconceived > beliefs is a bad habit that too many pseudo researchers seem to have, > and may be partly a result of too limited a focus. This limited focus > causes the researcher to deliberately exclude data that does not fit his > theories. (A perfect example is the ridiculous 3-tomb theory of > Egyptolologists). > The points I was trying to make are; > 1) many people studying the UFO phenomena are not as "unread" and > literature deficient as Bob Shell seems to imply; > 2) it would help to have knowledge of various disciplinary areas of > study to come to try to come to some area of understanding of the UFO > phenomena. > You mention that UFOs are not related to other anomalous or folkloric > phenomena. These are the type of sweeping statements to watch out for. > How can you possibly compare something that is not yet understood with > something else that is not yet understood? Comparisons such as this can > be superficial at best. Who knows what unknown forces may be behind > each? > We've had 50 years of scientific study of UFOs. As far as I can see, we > are not much further in coming to any conclusions than what was > expressed in some of the older books. Most current books simply > regurgitate what has been said many times before. Maybe we're so lost in > the forest of ufological study that we can no longer see the fields of > other disciplines that surround the forest. It may prove worthwhile to > look at other sources for clues to the mystery, as well as other ways of > thinking about our environment. > I'm not talking about New Age channelling, Tarot card reading, > occultism, or other nonsensical pursuits. I'm talking about borderline > science where the possibility of new ideas may be obtained. Examples of > authors include: Brian Swimme, Ken Wilber, Michael Talbot, Lyall Watson, > John Gribbin, Martin Rees, J.E. Lovelock, Russell Targ, Harold Puthoff, > Gary Zukav, Paul Davies, Roger Penrose, Fred Allan Wolf and Rupert > Sheldrake. > This doesn't mean that we should abandon traditional approaches, but > that we should enhance them with new ideas. The world hasn't stood still > for the last 50 years. There are phenomenal new ideas being developed > every day in many fields of study, that most people don't even seem to > be aware of. Physics and chemistry do not follow theories that were laid > out many years ago. Physicists are beginning to prove that some form of > communication exists between particles that are separated in space. > Elements are being shown to have behavioural characteristics that defy > identification (i.e. metals such as rhodium in high spin states are > transparent to identification devices and are being identified by the > trace impurities contained within it - i.e. they are being identified as > silica - could this possibly explain the Roswell debris object that was > currently tested and found to be silica with unusual ionization > patterns?). Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > challenged. Animals are able to communicate with humans and show > creative thinking processes similar to those of humans. Humans have been > found to emit magnetic fields from the solar plexis while experiencing > pain. I could go on and on, but the books above document my points. > Oh, one other point. Some people have had UFO experiences and feel very > comfortable researching the subject. Others have had very real > paranormal experiences and feel very comfortable researching that > subject. But others have had both UFO and paranormal experiences and > feel very comfortable with the possibility that there may be some > connection between the two phenomena.Since I happen to feel comfortable > with the latter, I have chosen to explore th fields around the forest. > Unfortunately, many of those in the paranormal field of study do not > welcome those who have an interest in UFOs, and many of those in the UFO > field do not welcome those who have an interest in the paranormal field. > This is to say nothing of the many "camps" within those fields itself. > What was that famous saying? "Divide and conquer"? > John Koopmans John and everybody, It is a myth that we have devoted 50 years to scientific UFO study. Anybody who knows the history of this subject ought to know that scientists have neglected UFO research for the most part. All but a few of those who have paid attention to it have worked on their own, freed of institutional support, funding, laboratories, or support from colleagues. In other words, real science has barely been attempted. It's silly to assert that science has failed when it's never been given a chance. I don't understand why, in pursuit of ufological wisdom, John on one hand wants us to read a bunch of occult texts (which he seems to think of equal value to the scientific texts he also recommends), then on the other complains when I say he apparently regards ufology as a branch of occultism. I cannot help noting, by the way, that he fails to recommend literature a bit more to the point: Bullard's debunking of claims for a long historical lineage to the UFO phenomenon and of dubious folkloric correlates, or to Michael Swords' masterly exposition of the ETH's scientific underpinnings. What we're getting here is warmed-over Keel and Vallee. Occult dish, in other words. I am accused of making "sweeping statements." I plead a desire not to tax the patience of our audience. In fact, I have written at length on these issues, most recently in the FUFOR-published monograph Spacemen, Demons, and Conspiracies: The Evolution of UFO Hypotheses. See also, for three other instances that come immediately to my mind, various entries in my UFO Encyclopedia (e.g., "Paranormal and Occult Theories about UFOs" and "Psychosocial Hypothesis") and my "The Thickets of Magonia," IUR, January/February 1990. I also recom- mend Bullard's "Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" in my The Emergence of a Phenomenon (UFO Encyclopedia #2). It ought not to matter that our favorite beliefs make us "feel comfortable." What should matter is that they be defensible empirically, evidentially, and logically. Ex- pressions of faith, or anyway of unexamined conviction, aren't getting us anywhere. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jul > Jul 31 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:14:52 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:36:30 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:05:13 UT > From: "Steve Bassett" <Paradigm_Research_Group@msn.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > List members, > I have attached a Word 6.0 file containing the <Petition for a 1997 Open > Congressional Hearing on Modern UFO Evidence>. > This petition may be downloaded, copied, recopied and distributed by any > interested organization or individual. > Thanks > Steve Bassett > Paradigm Research Group I for one cannot possibly sign anything so broad in effect trying to declassify every piece of technical data out there about flying saucers, methods of detecting them etc. Should Khadafi and Hussein, for example, be given all this stuff?? Remember there is a $30 Billion annual black budget.. How about everything before l950?? Stan Friedman